View Full Version : Gurren-Lagann - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll
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Omniscient
2007-08-19, 03:40
Episode 21 Screencaps and Summary (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2007/08/18/gurren-lagann-21/)
I thought at first that this episode was a little wasted in terms exploring Yoko’s recent past as a school teacher, but they really spared no expense making Yoko look cool and kick ass. And with Simon and Viral piloting the Gurren Lagann together, I can just feel that same fighting spirit that we saw a lot in the first parts of the series coming back.
Deathkillz
2007-08-19, 04:24
zomg epix! :D
simon and viral piloting gurren lagann was unexpected...and the speech that they gave was just as explosive :D now we have 2 kaminas ~ those anti spirals are so screwed :heh:
the main bulk of the ep was about yoko but im glad to say that im not disappointed seeing her retaining her badass personality :3 she makes one heck of a good teacher (and punishes bad kids with flying chalk of doom XD)
nice little background story before the big battle next and from the preview we see simon about to deal a blow to nia (*shock* will he hold back O.O)
musashiken
2007-08-19, 05:05
Woo the thread is finally here.
WEEE..Yoko matured nicely, lots of pluses here! Good episode, things are getting exciting. In the preview of the next episode, did I see Simon sending a fist at Nia's face?
That whole episode was epic Yoko goodness. Even though its been a while since she's appeared, it was nice to have this much of her after that length of time --- especially as quite possibly the best teacher i have ever seen. Part of me can see Yoko returning to the island when this is all over, though i have to remember about the moon factor in this story --- shall have to see what happens from here.
Simon & Viral --- fighting spirit has returned to this series!
duckroll
2007-08-19, 07:45
What a great ep!!! WOOOOOOOOOO! TEH EPICS! TEH COLORS! TEH NON-OUTSOURCED! TEH ANIMATIONZ! GUNMENS RETURN! YOKO RETURNS! BOOOBZ~~~! IT IS A MIRACLE, THAT MIRACLE IS CALLED...... ARK GURREN LAGANN!!!!!!!! SPIN ONNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!! YEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! !! GAINAX AM RETURN TOTAL!!!!
Good ep. Glad to see how epic Ark Gurren Lagann is... its just bursting with epic goodness.
Onizuka-GTO
2007-08-19, 09:50
WWOOOT! IM BUUUURRRNNNIINNGG UPPPPP!
GOOO SPIRAL!!! :D
I already drooling for episode 22!! oh HARUHI!!!
Really this episode is just the starter before the main course, but what a sweet starter it is!
This episodes just builds us up for a full GAR moment, and i have to say Rosiu was pretty surprise to see those he "sacrificed" again.
Kinda shows how good his decisions were in the first place....
Sure it takes courage for a man to make decisions, but you gotta pick the right ones or it will mean nought...silly rosiu... :rolleyes:
What a great ep!!! WOOOOOOOOOO! TEH EPICS! TEH COLORS! TEH NON-OUTSOURCED! TEH ANIMATIONZ! GUNMENS RETURN! YOKO RETURNS! BOOOBZ~~~! IT IS A MIRACLE, THAT MIRACLE IS CALLED...... ARK GURREN LAGANN!!!!!!!! SPIN ONNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!! YEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! !! GAINAX AM RETURN TOTAL!!!!
So hey duckroll... is next episode outsourced or not? The preview looks mostly great but whatever.
X_Danny_X
2007-08-19, 09:55
damn, looking at the preview for episode 22, i wanted Rossiu to somehow pay for his stupidity and betrayal of Simon, but it looks like that Simon's Guerran is going to present with the ship, somehow in the end combine to fight and defeat Nia.
looks like Rossie in the end is going to join again with the team. god i hope he pays somehow.
Malintex_Terek
2007-08-19, 11:05
NINE, almost worthy of a ten. Gosh DARN this show is awesome, I almost choked on my garlic bulb when I first saw the end. Twenty two will be LEGENDARY EPIC!
duckroll
2007-08-19, 11:30
So hey duckroll... is next episode outsourced or not? The preview looks mostly great but whatever.
I really don't know. We'll have to wait till next week to find out. If it is outsourced though, then for 22 I expect the same level of "outsourced" quality as ep3 at the very, very least. :D
With ep21 Gainax clearly showed that they're BACK, and they don't fuck around. ^_^
WOW.
Uh, I'm at lack of any other words to describe my current emotion.
That was truely epic, and AS are about to get their asses handed to them... in pieces. :D
So hey duckroll... is next episode outsourced or not? The preview looks mostly great but whatever.
I don't have any sources to say anything solid, but the explosions in the preview for 22 sure looks like Yoshinari (younger one) style, which would mean it will be by the main Gainax GL staff. It's gonna be epic.
duckroll
2007-08-19, 12:39
I don't have any sources to say anything solid, but the explosions in the preview for 22 sure looks like Yoshinari (younger one) style, which would mean it will be by the main Gainax GL staff. It's gonna be epic.
Yeah, I noticed that the ep22 preview was cut in such a way to highlight scenes that purely show the fact that the series has visually progressed to the start of ep1. The explosions and the overall muted coloring and shading of stuff in space even as the designs and animation is EPIC is a tell tale sign.
Wow I can't believe people are using the word epic to describe this eps........
Am I the only one who thought the first 20 minutes was totally lame? I like Yoko and all but was it really necessary to show us her stupid story, especially with only a few eps left? The first 20 minute was basically filler material.
KickHopper
2007-08-19, 13:53
I don't know how one can say any part of an episode was wasted when they are already finished with the whole series. I'm pretty sure they planned it all out so that the story still finishes. >_>
i love how most of these people probably rated this episode based on like the last 5 minutes of the show.
nubby i was going on about it yesterday, how i thought the first 15 minutes was just a waste of my time.. it was the stupidest thing to do when we're right in the middle of the juiciest part of the war. then BAM, "oh look at what yoko does in her free time.." like i began to re-like yoko, and her appearance at 20 was well-timed, and beautifully made, but this episode, just was so useless... damn.. just so unsatisfied, i want my time wasted back..
like i said, most people prolly thought this was epic goodness because of the last 5 minutes, which i'll admit, was pretty freaking awesome, but that does not give an excuse to waste the first 15 minutes with.. this junk =/
(vote on the totality of the episode and not just because the end left you wanting more. there's no doubt that gainax has made an epic series, but i've been expecting highs and lows, and the fact that people still voted this 8/9/10.. just leaves me, speechless, like wtf.. ..wtf..)
Coreyart
2007-08-19, 16:45
they are done with whole series? Btw I enjoyed the beginning of the episode. Yoko was super cool how she killed those 2 bad guys; also Simon has just grown up so much now. I think its really amazing how they shifted the story so that his once enemy is now his friend. Absolutely amazing storyline here, Im sorry but this episode was one of my favorite. This is probably the best cartoon I have ever seen.
The beginning was ok and had it stayed all flashback it would definitely have earned something more like a 7, but the last third of the episode was so awesome it made up for the rest of it. And it was nice seeing Yoko kick butt again. Wouldn't call the episode epic, but that ending was really sweet and I do expect the next episode to be epic. :)
Tsukou everyone has his/her own standards, besides voting is stupid anyway.
Eh, I liked the first half. Was very nicely animated at the very least, I love Yuka Shibata's art-style.
Malintex_Terek
2007-08-19, 17:55
nubby i was going on about it yesterday, how i thought the first 15 minutes was just a waste of my time.. it was the stupidest thing to do when we're right in the middle of the juiciest part of the war. then BAM, "oh look at what yoko does in her free time.." like i began to re-like yoko, and her appearance at 20 was well-timed, and beautifully made, but this episode, just was so useless... damn.. just so unsatisfied, i want my time wasted back..
Um, if it wasn't readily apparent, our "1990's" arc's major modulation in theme was toward character development, and Yoko got about fourteen minutes worth to show everyone she's matured into a responsible young woman from the hard-headed firebrand of a young girl she once was. Really, since Yoko's been getting the short end of the attention stick since Kamina died she needed some focus. If anything, Yoko showed us she took Kamina's words to heart, while Rossiu didn't.
This coming from a Yoko hater no less. The first half or so wasn't such a waste you make it seem to be. :heh:
duckroll
2007-08-19, 18:14
I think I feel the need to make it clearly why I felt this episode is one of the most important yet. It's definitely not filler.
Basically starting from the time skip, ep17-20 have been really depressing. The feel was intention, and it clearly shows that the world Simon and the Dai Gurren-dan fought so hard to create was not what everyone expected it to be. The world is less colorful, less energetic, even the new enemies have no flavor. Everyone is now forced to be right and proper because they have advanced technology, and what is most important has been slipping away bit by bit.
Ep21 shows exactly why Yoko left to begin with. Because she wanted to find a place that she could teach the next generation what was important, and to preserve the feel of the world that she lived in and fought for. This is the colorful, silly and overdramatic Gurren Lagann world that we followed for 15 episodes. The one where even the appearance of enemies put a smile on your face, and people are driven by their instincts and emotions rather than carefully planned details and technicalities.
There's no question that they're going head on into a major war in the coming episodes, but here's a simple question. If the world was only as it was in ep17-20, would that world really be worth saving at all. Everyone hates Simon, Rossiu is an asshole, the Dai Gurren-dan is all split up, and everyone's using mass production robots that look the same on both sides. What meaning would a victory for this world be worth? Ep21 shows us what they SHOULD be fighting for, and that there's still a world out there like ep1-15 that's worth fighting to protect.
The episode clearly shows why it is so important for Yoko to come back to save Simon - not because they're friends, or because he's the main character. Simon can hold the Dai Gurren-dan together, and they all believe in him. Yoko wants to save the world because there are still people worth fighting for, and a world out there worth protecting. The morons that live in Kamina City may not have our sympathy, but this just shows there's more to the world than just one stupid capital. Ep21 created meaning and a reference point for the coming battle. Spiral power is drawn from mankind's hopes, dreams and determination - without this episode, there wouldn't really be much hope or dreams in this arc at all would there? :)
musashiken
2007-08-19, 18:43
Well, my turn to say something about this ep. Actually I already said it in the other threads but hey, this thread was late. Anyways. I was pretty Yoko neutral in the beginning, she was kinda meh to me, but I didn't hate her nor like her. Until the beach ep, where she earned some brownie points with me. I especially like the Yoko in this ep because... I like older hot teachers in glasses with red hair and huge boobs (think Mizuho of Onegai Teacher). She also kinda gave off a Yomiko Readman (ROD) vibe because of her glasses...and boobs. *cough*
Yeah, so I didn't feel I wasted my time watching the first half of the episode. The scriptwriters had to explain Yoko's absence one way or the other and this is a good time as any. Any later, and more pple will be pissed.
Still the only memorable scene in this ep is the one in my sig. Anti-Nia's eyes. That was OMFG cool. The way she stared at Yoko gave me goosebumps. woo. Best stare of the year.
One thing nagging me is Yoko and her feelings for Simon. I thought she was over him, but during the class when she paused when speaking out Simon's name and on the tree-top talking about Simon (instead of Kamina) made me go "eh?". Of course, the little kid (whatshisname) does resemble Simon but I'd thought she'd place more emphasis on Kamina as an example since the little kid has a dead loved one. Or I'm just reading too much into the treetop dialogue. Still no denying she harbors some lingering feeling for Simon.
Sanjuronord
2007-08-19, 18:51
I think this was the perfect episode at this point in the series. Managed to fit in some lighter elements that the series was lacking since the early parts of the time jump (little too much doom and gloom recently for me) and got the series back to ass-kickery epicness at the end.
Um, if it wasn't readily apparent, our "1990's" arc's major modulation in theme was toward character development, and Yoko got about fourteen minutes worth to show everyone she's matured into a responsible young woman from the hard-headed firebrand of a young girl she once was.
You know, when I think about it, for a supposed 90s homage 3rd arc, there were aweful lot of classics parodied this episode. :heh:
The first part eye-catch at the break was obviously Maicching Machiko sensei parody, and the whole situation was 24 no hitomi (24 eyes, classic Japanese film).
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3593/14va4.th.jpg (http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3593/14va4.jpg)
It's funny how they crammed bunch of diffrent hot teacher references from all over including Machiko sensei, Onegai Teacher, 24 eyes, and even R.O.D novel's Yomiko sensei. :heh:
musashiken
2007-08-19, 19:37
You know, when I think about it, for a supposed 90s homage 3rd arc, there were aweful lot of classics parodied this episode. :heh:
The first part eye-catch at the break was obviously Maicching Machiko sensei parody, and the whole situation was 24 no hitomi (24 eyes, classic Japanese film).
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3593/14va4.th.jpg (http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3593/14va4.jpg)
It's funny how they crammed bunch of diffrent hot teacher references from all over including Machiko sensei, Onegai Teacher, 24 eyes, and even R.O.D novel's Yomiko sensei. :heh:
Ooh, nice to know about Machiko. Saw pics before but never had the chance to watch it.
As for the references... well can't blame it. After watching so many animes, a few characters are bound to stick in your mind and you have to make comparisons, even basing on minute similarities. lol.
Ooh, nice to know about Machiko. Saw pics before but never had the chance to watch it.
As for the references... well can't blame it. After watching so many animes, a few characters are bound to stick in your mind and you have to make comparisons, even basing on minute similarities. lol.
Oh, trust me, it's completely intentional.
We're talking Gainax here.
Hell they were founded on doing parodies, even from the start, back in Daicon IV days. :heh:
Gainax's original works have always been filled with parodies, homages, and references to the rim, and GL is no exception.
musashiken
2007-08-19, 19:47
Ah, well at least you explained it's intentional. I thought it was just the fans (like me) :P
One thing nagging me is Yoko and her feelings for Simon. I thought she was over him, but during the class when she paused when speaking out Simon's name and on the tree-top talking about Simon (instead of Kamina) made me go "eh?". Of course, the little kid (whatshisname) does resemble Simon but I'd thought she'd place more emphasis on Kamina as an example since the little kid has a dead loved one. Or I'm just reading too much into the treetop dialogue. Still no denying she harbors some lingering feeling for Simon.
I would have thought she'd have gotten over Kamina, since he's dead, a lot more so than Simon. Simon is still alive and lingering in the world that's betrayed him. We saw her worry about him before the time gap in a not so sisterly way, so it wasn't too surprising really.
This episode was kinda boring but enjoyable in a way. It's nice that to see Yoko and what she's been doing. However, it interrupted the flow reallllly badly. I definitely think this would've been better as the first episode of the Timeskip and worked from there with the actual 17 being 18 with a few things reorganized.
I do love the Dragonball Z and Sorcerer Hunters references in this episode though!
Ninjacat
2007-08-19, 22:35
This episode, alone, could have earned a 7. The pacing is kind of weird.
But in the greater contest of the show, it's worth a well deserved 9. Yoko's 15 minutes of glory was all sorts of wonderfull, and it was great to see a part of humanity worth saving.
The action wasn't lacking eighter, Yoko kicked major ass, and the last bit after Simon's breakout was pure epic buildup. Simon changed a lot in the last few weeks; it feels like he's more comfortable around Viral than other humans.
It shouldn't be surprising, Garlock was with a beastman after all...
This episode was kinda boring but enjoyable in a way. It's nice that to see Yoko and what she's been doing. However, it interrupted the flow reallllly badly. I definitely think this would've been better as the first episode of the Timeskip and worked from there with the actual 17 being 18 with a few things reorganized.
I do love the Dragonball Z and Sorcerer Hunters references in this episode though!
DBZ references? Where was this? In the previews for next weeks episode? I'd like to know since im a big fan of DBZ, yet i see nothing.
Am I the only one who thought the first 20 minutes was totally lame? I like Yoko and all but was it really necessary to show us her stupid story, especially with only a few eps left? The first 20 minute was basically filler material.
I hope you are the only one, and a filler? We all know that Yoko's one year past had to be explained --- she's one of the main characters. It wouldn't have worked if she just appeared out of nowhere and said "oh, i've been a teacher for the last year or so."
It's funny how they crammed bunch of diffrent hot teacher references from all over including Machiko sensei, Onegai Teacher, 24 eyes, and even R.O.D novel's Yomiko sensei. :heh:
Indeed, though it was expected after the preview for this episode last week. Like you said, its the Gainax way to reference anything then can, and it was done nicely this time around --- especially using the lovely Yomoko-sensei.
DBZ references? Where was this? In the previews for next weeks episode? I'd like to know since im a big fan of DBZ, yet i see nothing.
The two Ganmen pilot attacking Yoko's island are wearing different costumes. The old guy with the Kamina glasses is wearing Chocolate's (from Sorcerer Hunters) costume while the other lizard guy is wearing Vegeta's outfit. :heh:
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x256/ShoutaShura/GL21-1.png
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x256/ShoutaShura/GL21-2.png
nice eyes i totally missed that. Overall it was a pretty good episode, with the last 5-6 min being the highlight. Yoko was as cool as ever and her boobs seem to jiggle even more then before.
It was pretty funny when Boota jumped into Yoko's bosom similar to the first episode of the series
The first thing that struck me was that Nakim was, right down to his name, a little Kamina. Seeing Yoko again was lovely, because even as a teacher, she maintained her fighting skills - that chalk is dangerous. When she took out the gun, boarded her hoverthingy, and took out the Gunmen - that was awesome. It's on the level of Kamina himself.
For the second half, everything was worthy of a cheer. The Dai Gurren Dan revived, the battle being taken to space (I'd recently rewatched the 3rd opening, and knew it had to happen), and of course, the end. That was beautiful, absolutely beautiful. Not since Kamina and Simon's final battle in Episode 8 long ago have I cheered that much. The best part is that the ride's far from over.
"Arc-Gurren-Lagann". I like the idea of that. I like it very much. We've got five or so episodes to go and a moon to stop. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for it.
Episode given a 9 for overall solidity and many cheerworthy moments. When Simon said "Who the hell do you think I am?", I knew the transformation was complete. Garlock is here.
Mr JeburtO
2007-08-20, 14:38
looks like the anti spirals show themselves in the next episode :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Mr.JEBURTO/vlcsnap-868357.png
looks like the anti spirals show themselves in the next episode :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Mr.JEBURTO/vlcsnap-868357.png
That's Ark-Gurren-Lagann.
That's actually Arc Gurren-Lagann, you can also see it in the opening (the one in blue behing Gurren-Lagann). Makes me wonder what Simon will use for the other upgrades, as the last one is fucking HUGE.
Anyways, that was a nice episode. I liked seeing what Yoko had been up to until now, she became quite an awesome teacher. And the way she shot these ganmens was just badass.
Viral joining Simon had been obvious for a long time, but I didn't expect to see him piloting Gurren ! That was a nice surprise. The next episode will be epic.
The two Ganmen pilot attacking Yoko's island are wearing different costumes. The old guy with the Kamina glasses is wearing Chocolate's (from Sorcerer Hunters) costume while the other lizard guy is wearing Vegeta's outfit. :heh:
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x256/ShoutaShura/GL21-1.png
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x256/ShoutaShura/GL21-2.png
Holy Shit, I didnt even notice that! Thanks for that lol!
Ninjacat
2007-08-20, 19:33
Hey, I'm preparing to watch the fansubbed episode when it hit me like a brick to the face.
Adult badass escaped prisoner Captain Simon looks more and more like the Spiral King! Complete with the slightly grimy look, quiet confidence, hard eyes and an ability to yell badass lines when appropriate!
The first thing that struck me was that Nakim was, right down to his name, a little Kamina.
Actually, his name Nakim comes from Nakimushi, meaning crybaby.
The girl's name is Maosha, which comes from Oshama, meaning a girl that tries to act more mature than her age.
Korehanatou comes from Hanarekotou, meaning far-off island.
All the GL names are puns. :)
BTW, there IS a name based on Kamina... in unexpected place.
You know Makken, the mechanic guy who's married to Reite?
His voice actor is obviously Katsuyuki Konishi, the same VA who voiced Kamina.
But in the ending credits, they hide this fact by giving credit to Leo Kaminaga, a totally unknown voice actor.
This Leo Kaminaga (Kaminaga Leo 神永レオ in Japanese) has a hidden meaning.
「かみながれお」 Read this from back to middle, front to middle, and it's おれがかみな
Meaning, "I am Kamina" :heh:
musashiken
2007-08-20, 21:06
Wow, that's cool. No wonder I always thought Kaminaga Leo was kinda weird.
The appearance of Arc-Gurren Lagann better show once and for all to the that little snot Gimmy that the Gulaparls are not, never were and can never hope to be better than the original Gurren Lagann.
(NOT Grapal, not only is Gulaparl the name in the URL of its page on the official website (http://www.gurren-lagann.net/mecha/gulaparl.html), Gulaparl makes more sense than Grapal for a machine that's based off of Gurren-Lagann. Plus, I can't see パール as anything other than something close to "pearl", and "parl" is pretty close.
Website URLs are also the same reason I'm sticking with Arc-Gurren over Ark-Gurren for the time being.)
duckroll
2007-08-20, 22:10
Ah, website urls. The same ones that still have ganmen and daiganzan? :)
Ah, website urls. The same ones that still have ganmen and daiganzan? :)
Yeah, so? All the other website URLs are correct, that's why I said "for the time being" with the Arc-Gurren/Ark-Gurren thing, but Gulaparl makes far more sense than Grapal, so I'm sticking with it.
AlphaDragoon
2007-08-20, 22:35
Holy hell, Simon and Viral are about to wipe the galaxy with the Anti-Spirals' collective asses.
KickHopper
2007-08-20, 23:11
Woo just finished watching the episode and it was awesome. I'm glad they explained where Yoko has been and why she is there saving Simon.
Its going to get interesting now with 20 hours to go and 5 episodes left.
Great episode, and awesome buildup to the next.
Return of the epic speeches FTW.
This episode totally kickass! I feel like yelling "WHO DO U THINK I AM" after watching this ep . Next ep will be more epic ! YEEHAW! I am so pumped up right now. The sad thing is this series does get the attention it suppose to get.
ElementSun
2007-08-21, 04:28
remember back in episode 15, where Garlock's capitol was located on a HUGE ASS robot...
what the hell would of happened if Simon fused Lagann with that monster?
invinciblegod
2007-08-21, 04:49
You forget that gurren lagann was unable to penetrate or damage the giant city.
Onceknown
2007-08-21, 06:59
My favorite bit in this episode was when Yoko got angry and decided enough was enough. At the exact moment in time, I became forever a more dedicated Yoko fan.
Mr. Johnny 5
2007-08-21, 08:33
There is no such thing as a perfect episode but this one was simply awesome 9!!
I havent watched Gurren Lagann for a couple weeks but after this episode i realized again how awesome it was. I loved everything.
The flashback was very nice...loved Yoko as a sensei and how she looked so nice and good and being strict at the same time.
I still like and really enjoy how these fools have hopeless courage (like their yell to kick the MOONS ASS LOL WTF!) knowing that it's actually impossible...but i'll guess those drills can do the impossible.
The entire scenes of the Gurren Brigade heading towards space (turbulence etc. high pressure) was also very nice to see...it gave a boost to the excitement.
Still Simon should definetly punch the current commander he left everyone behind..
Rotton the Wizard
2007-08-21, 08:57
Back when Viral made his reappearance in the new arc, I thought that it would be the most awesome thing if he and Simon were to pilot Gurren-Lagaan together, but I had a low expectation of it actually happening. I'm so glad I was proven wrong! :D I've always liked Viral more than Kamina (gasp!), so it's going to be great to actually see him get to kick ass instead of always getting beat down by the GL crew.
The new pairing virtually BLEEDS fighting spirit.
7thKeeper
2007-08-21, 09:41
Oh, trust me, it's completely intentional.
We're talking Gainax here.
Hell they were founded on doing parodies, even from the start, back in Daicon IV days. :heh:
Gainax's original works have always been filled with parodies, homages, and references to the rim, and GL is no exception.
That is so true. The Eureka referance (can't remember what episode it was in) when Rossiu was piloting the GL and dodging all the missiles while screaming in fear still keeps making me laugh everytime I watch it. I'll be watching this episode in about an hour after I get home, so I'll add my comments on it then.
That is so true. The Eureka referance (can't remember what episode it was in) when Rossiu was piloting the GL and dodging all the missiles while screaming in fear still keeps making me laugh everytime I watch it. I'll be watching this episode in about an hour after I get home, so I'll add my comments on it then.
Eh... that was a Macross reference, the second arc was full of them.
That is so true. The Eureka referance (can't remember what episode it was in) when Rossiu was piloting the GL and dodging all the missiles while screaming in fear still keeps making me laugh everytime I watch it. I'll be watching this episode in about an hour after I get home, so I'll add my comments on it then.
As 7Th mentioned, that animation style called "Itano Circus" used in Eureka 7 is originally seen in Macross, back in early 80s.
It was named Itano circus because of Ichiro Itano's unique style of animation, giving fluid and amazing dimention to aerial battles.
This particular missle ones are most known from its usage in Macross, but the term "Itano Circus" refers to Itano's overall aerial battles, dating all the way back to Ideon in the 70s.
You can see Gainax doing homages to this animation style as early as Daicon IV, when the bunny girl flies through countless missles. :)
7thKeeper
2007-08-21, 10:14
As 7Th mentioned, that animation style called "Itano Circus" used in Eureka 7 is originally seen in Macross, back in early 80s.
It was named Itano circus because of Ichiro Itano's unique style of animation, giving fluid and amazing dimention to aerial battles.
This particular missle ones are most known from its usage in Macross, but the term "Itano Circus" refers to Itano's overall aerial battles, dating all the way back to Ideon in the 70s.
You can see Gainax doing homages to this animation style as early as Daicon IV, when the bunny girl flies through countless missles. :)
Aaah, that would explain a lot since I haven't seen any Macross, ever. I believe this is a divine sign that I need to fill a hole in my knowledge!
seraphon
2007-08-21, 11:45
just watched this episode and it was good.
It also confirmed to me that rossiu is not only a bad guy, he is also stupid. I ve read some people defending rossiu because he made real world (politic) decision to ensure humanity s survival, but frankly if in the real world our leader really do such shitty decision, humanity is doomed.
Let me explain my point of view.
Indeed in real world situation, to calm stupid mobs of civils, putting blame on someone is common. Sometimes generals and such are put to death for the example like in the ancient URSS. And sometime people are declared punished and condemned to death on television to calm the public though smart rulers wont actually kill those people when they are useful.
Now lets analyse the situation in gurren laggan.
Rossiu knows that a fucking super alien civilization wants humanity dead. They are even fucking dropping the moon on their head. And he sentences simon to death when the moon is going to fall on their heads in just a few days.....
Now I think its quite logical to think that when a race capable of throwing moons on planets wants humanity dead, going underground or in space in an unknown ship (got one day to analyse arc-gurren that is controled by a head..) is kinda useless. Not even mentionning the stupid intention of rossiu to survive one fucking year in space..... Did he really think that the anti spirals would leave them in their ship alone? Or that he could resist them in space when he stupidly discarded his best weapon gurren laggan and when the helix king with the same arc gurren ship and an army of ganmen got his ass pawned?
I fail to grasp rossiu's logic.
Ok, lets be nice and give rossiu the benefit of doubt because it was a time of crisis. But hell in this episode and when it was really chaotic, rossiu though of calling yoko saying she is someone who must live....... gnéééé??
I love yoko. I always welcome babes with boobs. But why in this context is she someone that must live?? Why the hell is he forgetting simon and gurren laggan? Its not like the population will be angry with him for not murdering simon in front of their eyes and using him to save their asses.
So thats it. Rossiu = stupid. thats all.
And for someone that fought against the helix king I find it weird for rossiu to be amazed by machines influenced by peoples hearts...
Sorry for the ranting, but I had to say it all.
I have nothing against bastards, traitors, politicians and villains when their actions are somewhat logical (madness is a type of logic and add a certain charm to a character). But outright stupidity like rossiu is showing these last episodes is criminal.
RyougaElliot
2007-08-21, 12:00
I think Rossiu is going to have his redemption next episode. Just a hunch. I enjoyed the way he reacted to Simon's return.
Overall, another fantastic episode. I'm glad we got to find out what Yoko was up to, and it added some emotional 'oomph' to the episode, that when coupled with the final thirty seconds, made for a lot of fist pumping on my end. XD
Those final 30 seconds though were filled with WAY too much win. Seriously. That speech? BADASS.
Anh_Minh
2007-08-21, 13:10
Judging by the preview and the next title, Rossiu's going to die next episode.
It saddens me. Though he made me quite angry when he tried to have Simon killed, and some of his other decisions, it's kinda worn off.
I mean, sure, he was wrong about almost everything. But imagine he was right. Imagine that killing Simon, and abandoning 85% of the population was the only way for the human species to survive. What then?
Malintex_Terek
2007-08-21, 14:51
His voice actor is obviously Katsuyuki Konishi, the same VA who voiced Kamina.
This, comrades, is the auditorial perception difference between a native speaker and the ELC's average Yabuki Joe. :heh:
This Leo Kaminaga (Kaminaga Leo 神永レオ in Japanese) has a hidden meaning.
「かみながれお」 Read this from back to middle, front to middle, and it's おれがかみな
Meaning, "I am Kamina" :heh:
Is there anything special for Professor (Reite) and Helmsman (Gabal)? If Konishi could voice Makken, maybe Taniyama Kishou did Bachoun.
Eh... the Itano circus in Daicon IV weren't missiles but flying swords.
Is there anything special for Professor (Reite) and Helmsman (Gabal)? If Konishi could voice Makken, maybe Taniyama Kishou did Bachoun.
Nah, Reite and Gabal's VAs are regular voice actors, with history. They aren't some unknown made-up name like Kaminaga Leo.
As for Bachoun, I don't think it's Taniyama. He's got a gruff voice, but it doesn't sound like Taniyama's.
If they reused another GL VA for Bachoun, I sure can't tell who it is. :heh:
Eh... the Itano circus in Daicon IV weren't missiles but flying swords.
There were missles too, in the earlier scene with valkyrie.
But yeah, the part where bunny girl is flying through is swords with multi-colored smokes.
That part was animated by Anno, who is one of the few animators around that inherited the Itano Circus style correctly, accourding to Itano. :heh:
I DO think Anno is one of the best animator in the industry, I just don't like him directing anime, after Eva and Karekano. I'm glad he's not involved with GL.
EphemeralDream
2007-08-21, 17:01
I hope Rossiu doesn't die. He resembles Fei too much for me to hate! Plus, he's possibly one of the most diverse characters in the series.
Ninjacat
2007-08-21, 17:09
Judging by the preview and the next title, Rossiu's going to die next episode.
It saddens me. Though he made me quite angry when he tried to have Simon killed, and some of his other decisions, it's kinda worn off.
I mean, sure, he was wrong about almost everything. But imagine he was right. Imagine that killing Simon, and abandoning 85% of the population was the only way for the human species to survive. What then?
Rossiu didn't try too hard to find alternatives, didn't he?
The context would have had to be very different for Rossiu's position to be the least bit defensible. But to his defense, nothing went acording to his plans. He never meant to abandon 85% of humanity to die, by the time he realised the underground cities were toast it was already very late, and the Mugan went on the offensive almost immediately. Rossiu didn't even manage to evacuate Kamina city. As he was heading to space he had already lost and he knew it.
Rossiu was playing to the anti-spiral's tune all along, let them dictate the nature of the game. Because that's what he's very good at, following the rules.
I really don't think Rossiu's going to die next episode, it could mean he's gonna quit politics after this whole mess. I doupt Rossiu could forgive himself, even though Simon seems willing to do so.
One thing nagging me is Yoko and her feelings for Simon. I thought she was over him, but during the class when she paused when speaking out Simon's name and on the tree-top talking about Simon (instead of Kamina) made me go "eh?". Of course, the little kid (whatshisname) does resemble Simon but I'd thought she'd place more emphasis on Kamina as an example since the little kid has a dead loved one. Or I'm just reading too much into the treetop dialogue. Still no denying she harbors some lingering feeling for Simon.
i am in total agreement with you here, the way that Yoko said his name and when she talked about him. It just seems like had something lingering; though i doubt anything will come of it; have you seen the recent spoilers; Simon goes to the planet of the Anti-spirial to save his love Which really sucks because it could be really nice to see Yoko and Simon have the talk. Oh well I can dream right.
Malintex_Terek
2007-08-21, 18:02
That part was animated by Anno, who is one of the few animators around that inherited the Itano Circus style correctly, accourding to Itano. :heh:
Oh, did Anno do the opening for Mahoromatic?
Kisuke06
2007-08-21, 18:02
I could see Viral joining the Gurren-dan, but piloting Gurren-Lagann with Simon was a [pleasant] surprise. Next episode is going to rock!
Oh, did Anno do the opening for Mahoromatic?
Yep, sure did.
He did OP for Sugar Sugar Lune also, mostly because it's based on his wife's manga. :heh:
seeing viral in gurren blew my underwear off
I DO think Anno is one of the best animator in the industry, I just don't like him directing anime, after Eva and Karekano. I'm glad he's not involved with GL.
For sometime now, i've been wondering what an Anno Gurren Lagann would end up like (this is the part where i don't wanna hear any Evangelion jokes :3). It would be rather interesting, though at the same time its not something i wanna see. I respect your opinion, and i'm sure you know that i love Anno has a director, though i am glad he isn't a part of Gurren Lagann.
Anno is a great director... and Gurren-Lagann owes so much to one of his original masterpieces I don't see any reason for the hate.
So what upgrades did Gurren-Lagann get from Leeron?
Anno is a great director... and Gurren-Lagann owes so much to one of his original masterpieces I don't see any reason for the hate.
Indeed. Looking back on it, Anno being apart of Gurren Lagann WOULD have been good to see --- my comment was mainly aimed at Anno directing around this time, the end. Its kinda scary thinking about it.. in a good way!
Gene Yuss
2007-08-21, 19:37
A fairly subtle little thing, but one of those things that tells me someone was really paying attention to detail...
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5640/virallagann000mk1.th.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=virallagann000mk1.jpg)
Gurren with Viral as pilot only has one eye showing. XD
Indeed. Looking back on it, Anno being apart of Gurren Lagann WOULD have been good to see --- my comment was mainly aimed at Anno directing around this time, the end. Its kinda scary thinking about it.. in a good way!
well, Anno should still be busy with his eva the movie currently. Let him have his fun. Besides I don't want some "congratuation" in my GAR anime.
Anno isn't even directing the new Evangelion movies and for Diebuster he only did the storyboard for the fourth episode.
I don't quite understand the amount of Anno, and evangelion hate about, granted i know its fashionable in internet land nowdays to laugh at everything emo due to the dodgy Emo Children social groups about, but Anno does not equate to Evangelion, his other works have been quite different, ranging from weird to motivational...
And in terms of pure direction, rather than scripting and production, evangelion has moments which are crazy enough to be gurren lagan'd , be it the fight in the Eva episode "Both of You, Dance Like You Want to Win!", Auska in End of Eva or the end of The Wings of Honneamise...
If they manage to equal the battles in epsiodes 14-15 i will be dancing with joy, I'm hoping they use the Track Happily Ever After (Nakagawa Shouko) or even an up tempo remix as i adored how well used that track was in episode 15...
Well, both 監督 and 演出 are translated as "director", although they are totally diffrent roles.
I don't hate Anno, like 7Th is suggesting. I simply don't like him helming a project as chief director, because of his tendency to lose interest in a long production. He's more suited to do shorter projects, such as OVAs. As an "animation director" (演出) I think he's one of the best in the industry, only rivaled by the top directors in the field.
duckroll
2007-08-22, 05:27
Well, both 監督 and 演出 are translated as "director", although they are totally diffrent roles.
I don't hate Anno, like 7Th is suggesting. I simply don't like him helming a project as chief director, because of his tendency to lose interest in a long production. He's more suited to do shorter projects, such as OVAs. As an "animation director" (演出) I think he's one of the best in the industry, only rivaled by the top directors in the field.
But enshutsu (演出) is unit director, not animation director. Animation director is 作画監督. I agree though, Anno is superb as an animation director or even a VFX director. Back in the Daicon and Honneamise days he was the genius behind many of the leading visuals not seen in any other production at that point. As a unit director, he's still pretty much hit or miss. It's a pity that he has taken an interest in being higher up in the animation food chain and giving orders instead of sitting back and animating stuff like he used to. :/
But enshutsu (演出) is unit director, not animation director. Animation director is 作画監督. I agree though, Anno is superb as an animation director or even a VFX director. Back in the Daicon and Honneamise days he was the genius behind many of the leading visuals not seen in any other production at that point. As a unit director, he's still pretty much hit or miss. It's a pity that he has taken an interest in being higher up in the animation food chain and giving orders instead of sitting back and animating stuff like he used to. :/
Thanks for the correction, I've never heard of the phrase "unit director".
In animation field tho, enshutsu directors also oversee animation styles. Sakuga kantoku normally oversees the overall production of animation quality, where as enshutsu oversees the overall direction of the way its animated often, such as the above topic of using Itano Circus.
Especially in the case of Anno. Distinct looks of the anime often relies on sakuga kantoku, and distinct animation style often relies on Enshutsu.
But I'm sure unit directors in films and movies are diffrent than anime. :heh:
And since I wasn't aware of the english term "unit director" I called it "animation director" for both of those.
New wrinkle in my brain. :)
duckroll
2007-08-22, 06:06
The "unit director" term is usually used for movies and such, where there's a main director who oversees the entire project and a unit director that does as you say, ground work with the animators. For normal TV anime we just call them "episode directors".
I just watched Wings of Honneamise again a few weeks ago on blu-ray, having eagerly awaited this high definition release of the classic, and I really have a lot of respect for the Gainax guys. In the booklet included with the Blu-ray/DVD set they had a blurb on Anno's role in the movie as an animation director and VFX expert. He was mostly responsible for planning two major scenes.
One is the angles and layout of the dogfights at the climatic battle (there's even a sketch that shows the position of two planes in relation to each other, where the sky/clouds would be, etc and then he draws the camera positions on the scene to show which angles it should be animated from.
The other is the actual shuttle launch with tons of small flying fiberglass shards that scatter all over the screen. He felt that the effect would create a busier look to the animation of the launch making it much more vibrant and impactful.
So would I be interested in seeing Anno tackle a scene or two of Gurren Lagann towards the end? Without a doubt, although it's unlikely he would participate since he's busy with Rebuild of Evangelion at the moment. But I'm definitely thankful that he has no hand in the actual production and development of Gurren Lagann, because honestly I can't really agree with many of his overall scenario/directing choices. He's a great animator, but when he puts his fingers in every pie, it tends to get.... weird. ^^;
Besides I don't want some "congratuation" in my GAR anime.
I'd love that, though it would collide with the GAR awesomeness --- not something that'll work well together.
Eh... has Anno been involved with any animation project since... a long time ago? He wasn't even part of the huge KA list in FLCL.
RyougaElliot
2007-08-22, 11:00
As noted above, he did storyboards for episode four of Diebuster, and was also Editorial Supervisor on that project.
And despite how much he's actually involved with the new eva films, he is listed as Chief Director, as well as the one who wrote the screenplay itself.
As noted above, he did storyboards for episode four of Diebuster, and was also Editorial Supervisor on that project.
And despite how much he's actually involved with the new eva films, he is listed as Chief Director, as well as the one who wrote the screenplay itself.
Er... I know, I listed his credit as SBer for Diebuster 4. I meant actual "animation" work... which going by Ben's AniTop is something he hasn't done since the 90's.
duckroll
2007-08-22, 12:24
Er... I know, I listed his credit as SBer for Diebuster 4. I meant actual "animation" work... which going by Ben's AniTop is something he hasn't done since the 90's.
Of course not. It's hard work, why would he want to waste his time and effort when he could get paid more sitting back and selling Eva panties for extra cash to play with on the stock market? :)
One thing nagging me is Yoko and her feelings for Simon. I thought she was over him, but during the class when she paused when speaking out Simon's name and on the tree-top talking about Simon (instead of Kamina) made me go "eh?". Of course, the little kid (whatshisname) does resemble Simon but I'd thought she'd place more emphasis on Kamina as an example since the little kid has a dead loved one. Or I'm just reading too much into the treetop dialogue. Still no denying she harbors some lingering feeling for Simon.
I strongly believe that she was referring to Kamina on the tree, as she mentioned that someone died, like that kid's dad and you just need to remember him deep in the heart. I can't really tell why she had weird reaction when reading the book but i think its because she was flashing her memory back 6 years ago.
Besides, her motive to become a teacher and wants to take back a world where kids can live happily under the sun on the ground was because of Kamina. In episode 7, when the two of them were having a little chat, Kamina mentioned that was one of the reason of they needed to keep fighting, for a world where kids like simon, darry, can enjoy.
She was never into Simon, imo. ;)
Actually, Anno is credited on FLCL and Die Buster for key animation, but that's probably something really short for both case. That's maybe why no one's bother to mention it.
So after Giant Robo #5 (1994), he worked on :
FLCL #2 (no credit), #5 KA, #4 Mecha AD (help)
Abenobashi #12 KA, #13 Mecha AD
Die Buster #2 KA, #6 2nd KA
http://www.gainax.co.jp/hills/anno/works.html
He was a great FX animator at the time, that would be cool if he worked again as an animator, but i don't see it happening.
Then I also hope Sadamoto will comeback to animation when he is finished with the Eva manga.
He contributed a nice bit of animation on this clip in the latter part i don't know exactly when it starts (maybe when the screen is blue) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urOdF99pe2c
Tempest35
2007-08-22, 14:52
Her feelings for Simon don't come off as being explicitly romantic. It seems more close family/big sisterly love than anything.
She elludes to both Kamina and Simon while atop the tree - both fond memories in her mind. Nakim just reminds her alot of chibi Simon and all the memories that brings up in her mind.
I have five words to describe this episode: The ending. Oh fuck yes.
Matt Soulblade
2007-08-22, 21:51
I liked the Onegai Yoko part, I dont know, I must have a soft spot for that kind of stories.
I didnt like very much the Viral getting on the Gurren part though, however, it was kind of expected.
Er... I know, I listed his credit as SBer for Diebuster 4. I meant actual "animation" work... which going by Ben's AniTop is something he hasn't done since the 90's.
He's the director for Re: Cutey Honey OVAs, and did animation work himself.
As for just doing animation work, he's done parts of Abenobashi and FLCL, and the whole Mahoromatic OP and Sugar Sugar Rune OP.
musashiken
2007-08-23, 03:08
Woot, he did Sugar Sugar Rune OP as well? Wee, that is my favourite shoujo anime op. :P
outcast_within
2007-08-23, 15:57
"Yoko, how dare you having kinky sex with Simon."
Sinestra
2007-08-24, 07:14
The boys are back in town it was so nice to see the group ready to whoop total ass again even if its only a small fraction of what it use to be. Yoko is still one of the best female main charactes ever. I like the path Yoko has taken to educate the next generation. THat is very important if the human race wants not advance technological but morally and mentally as well. I believe Yoko's place in the Gurren Brigade is put the one is lost back on the right path by supporting them. Not sure if she is over Kamina yet but her looking at Simon still showed some signs affection but i dont love is a part of it. She was so hot as a teacher i want to back to school but only if she teaching and asks me to stay after school..
Viral and Simon two bad bad ass mofos who i would not want to mess with. I had always thought that Viral was more Kamina than Simon anyway. Watching them say who the F*&k do you think we are ruled. I think Rossiu has a few life lessons he can learn from the events that have just happend he was shock as hell when he heard Simons voice.
20 hours to go till the moon goes bam into earth. Btw even if they stop it they are going to have to get it back into it original location because of the havoc it will play with earth weather being so close.
All I got to say is that episode 21 was a beautiful masterpiece of character development for Yoko. She truly carried on and chose to make a new life to find a new reason to live, and that was for the little children to teach them great things about the world as their sensei (teacher).
If you Yoko hops back again into action she chose it solely for the children to have their beautiful, blue sky never tainted by darkness. However, she realized how much she was needed by her old friends; she's a fundamental part of the Gurren Brigade, after all.
Yoko's return marked the resurrection of the Brigade; Kittan's bravery instilled back their fighting cause; even Viral contributed his part with his words to get Simon back on his feet.
Really, Rossiu you suck if you believe that everything in the universe can be preplanned beforehand.
Great good, that all the guys and girls are back into the Gurren Brigade and all are going to kick ass.
I knew it!
I was proven right that Viral will end piloting Gurren along with Simon in the Lagann.
Kind of ironic, but may well be Kamina's will. After all, he and Viral were long-lasting rivals in arms.
Now I am more hooked up with this electric combination, because I want to see how much ass both Simon and Viral can kick up inside Gurren-Lagann.
Guardian Enzo
2007-08-24, 20:42
damn, looking at the preview for episode 22, i wanted Rossiu to somehow pay for his stupidity and betrayal of Simon, but it looks like that Simon's Guerran is going to present with the ship, somehow in the end combine to fight and defeat Nia.
looks like Rossie in the end is going to join again with the team. god i hope he pays somehow.
Couldn't agree more. Good ep, but all signs point to a kiss and make up with Rossiu, which would suck beyond all measure - that twat needs to pay for his actions, somehow.
Still - seeing Simon & Viral finally team up almost makes up for it...
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