Higurashi Kai Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[kj1980]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni Kai, Episode 8.

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[Neko Haruko]

This episode only needs one word to describe it. Oh. Shit.

I see what people were sayng before about this arc being totally turned around. Kool Kei saving Shion from insanity and wanting to kill. Hauauauauau~ Kei-chan . Save us. ;.;

[Shiosai]

Uh oh, as soon as I saw Rina I knew there would be some trouble going down in this episode.

Rika freaking out in the clinic was great. I'm glad the freaky faces aren't nearly as bad as they were first season. And Rika had a right to be pissed.

[Sterling01]

Indeed she did

Edit: Raw is out

[Rias]

Great episode, every event is well spaced out, and they didn't really leave anything important out. It's good to see lots of famous quotes in this epsiode, but too bad Rena's respond to 1500s is cut out. Dark Rika at the hospital was also nicely done.


Rina plot's foiled and killed ->Impossible to resolve for 100 years event: Teppei's return -> Onsen man Akasaka is away -> Irie/Takano's lack of help -> Standoff between club memebers -> K1 and friends seeking help from child protection agency

[MrZombie]

I'm certainly starting to like Keiichi more. The way he stood up to Shion there was hardcore. Plus Rika's freak out was very nice as well.

[aroduc]

Caps etc
http://blog.seiha.org/?p=268

Kind of annoyed in the complete and drastic switch in tone and attitude between last episode and this one. There was absolutely no transition at all between the hope at the end of the last episode and well... this one. Meh.

[HigurashiNeze1231]

Well I can't really give any real insight until the subs are out, but from watching the raw...

Well take in mind I don't know any Japanese, so this probably isn't accurate, but from what I saw in this episode it seems like Irie and Takano didn't exactly go along with Rika's plan, thus pissing her off. It seems like Teppei is abusing Satoko even more, and Shion is going mad over this and decides to go get Satoko herself (from what I gathered >_>). Keiichi confronts her, and well he gains some more respect in my book. Akasaka is apparently not there for whatever reason, and it looks like Rika's hope for this world working out has gone down (or maybe just her hope for Satoko) and she's relying on Keiichi to save Satoko. Can't wait for this to be subbed, then I can fully enjoy it... this is the first anime that is making me watch raws, I just can't wait for subs.

Also, it looks like they toned down the freaky faces so it's more realistic, but Rika kinda freaked me out. O_o

EDIT: Subs are out. Going painfully slow though... probably gonna have to wait until tomorrow.

[MrZombie]

Caps etc
http://blog.seiha.org/?p=268

Kind of annoyed in the complete and drastic switch in tone and attitude between last episode and this one. There was absolutely no transition at all between the hope at the end of the last episode and well... this one. Meh.

Why should there really be a transition? Teppei coming back always has Rika giving up on a world. Everytime, because nothing ever works, Satoko always stays with him until her mind snaps and/or someone loses it and kills Teppei. His return and the fact that no is able to do anything about it besides someone killing Teppei, means given the past worlds, Rika has every right just to simply give up despite the promising start.

[MarthX]

But the problem is he came out of nowhere.

[MezzoDragon]

Rika is kinda lucky; thrashing around in the clinic without having a wardrobe malfunction. Still, she needs the other to save her girlfriend. I hope the sub appears soon.

[Sterling01]

For some reason it did look like her clothes were about to fall off

[aroduc]

Why should there really be a transition? Teppei coming back always has Rika giving up on a world. Everytime, because nothing ever works, Satoko always stays with him until her mind snaps and/or someone loses it and kills Teppei. His return and the fact that no is able to do anything about it besides someone killing Teppei, means given the past worlds, Rika has every right just to simply give up despite the promising start.

The problem isn't that he came back, just how disparate the tone was between the end of the last episode and the start of this one. Last episode ended with everybody laughing and hopeful, etc etc, and there wasn't even a dawning "oh shit, things are about to head south" moment here. It opened with Rika already flipping out and everything totally back in the crapper. Imagine watching the two episodes one immediately after eachother, you literally go from an episode building up hope to... not it all crashing down, but it already gone. It'd be fine if there was at least some attempt at a bridge, but there's absolutely nothing, just an immediately and drastic shift in tone and outlook.

[Sterling01]

Just so you know thats how it basically happens in the game too

[Kang Seung Jae]

The problem isn't that he came back, just how disparate the tone was between the end of the last episode and the start of this one. Last episode ended with everybody laughing and hopeful, etc etc, and there wasn't even a dawning "oh shit, things are about to head south" moment here. It opened with Rika already flipping out and everything totally back in the crapper. Imagine watching the two episodes one immediately after eachother, you literally go from an episode building up hope to... not it all crashing down, but it already gone. It'd be fine if there was at least some attempt at a bridge, but there's absolutely nothing, just an immediately and drastic shift in tone and outlook.

I think this way is better, since it does give a sort of "shock" by showing you how things can go down this fast.

[Chewy]

The sudden change bugged me too. It made me feel like I missed an episode in the middle or something. It wouldn't have felt so "unnatural" if they gave just a little bit of foreshadowing at the end of the previous episode.

[Ice Climbers]

The sudden change bugged me too. It made me feel like I missed an episode in the middle or something. It wouldn't have felt so "unnatural" if they gave just a little bit of foreshadowing at the end of the previous episode.

Agreed, the sudden jump from a hopeful atmosphere to another depressing one just kinda shocked me (though I was kinda prepared, this is higurashi afterall)


That Rika's pissing off scared me though, even though I know she has every right to be pissed off, but to think she would do something like THAT just completely escapes my mind.

Keiichi certainly deserves some praise in this episode, his courage to stand up to Shion shows yet another time he changed fate.

Let's see how this arc goes :D

[Sterling01]

Wouldn't K1 get a concussion from getting hit on the head with a desk

and Rika breaking down at the end was done really well

[Klashikari]

geh... *loves exams*..
Summary is up, though no screencaps. (ho well, aroduc post them anyway ^^)
Episode 8 : Summary, screencaps and thoughts. (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/08/24/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-8-minagoroshi-hen-3-youragi/)

the rest should be up soon.

as for my opinion: i wasn't expecting nothing else than this, and again DEEN doesn't disappoint in that aspect.
The start HAS to be upsided down: it was exactly the mood they have to do. The spiral of despair isn't something which is always "gradual", but can hit the batshit HARD, and this is what MrZombie said : when Teppei arrives, it is completely a reversal of the whole situation.
That pretty much explains why Rika begun to be so erratic. if it wasn't that shitty in one blow, she would simply crawl in despair like before.

i would have definitely complain if they were trying to go easy on us, and slowly making things doomed. but no, this is exactly what it should be, and they didn't even forget about Rina's death, which is the answer of Tatarigoroshi-hen (the corpse so to speak)

the pace was much more neat than last week, and they delivered nicely everyone feelings. (especially the dreams were well inserted here)
My my... many KOOL K, and we will have even more later on !

a very strong episode, and next episode will be even more intense for this case ^__^


EDIT : the preview of EP9 is up
http://www.animate.tv/special/higurasi_yokoku.php

one thing to say : they didn't forget kameda, and various HUGE points are shown.
next episode will be epic.
K~~~~~~~!

EDIT 2: screecaps and thoughts are up !

[mist2123]

this episode is OH MY ******** GOD!. Bye bye rina!!! :)

[MezzoDragon]

She had it coming.

[MrZombie]

The sudden change bugged me too. It made me feel like I missed an episode in the middle or something. It wouldn't have felt so "unnatural" if they gave just a little bit of foreshadowing at the end of the previous episode.

There was foreshadowing though, not in episode seven mind you. It was in episode six. Right before Rika's born in the new world, she shows the world of Tatarigoroshi-hen and says "This is a dead end world."

At the start of this episode we're left in as much shock about him coming back as Rika. (Even though they finally show us what causes Teppei to return and it's something that no one can actually prevent.)

Really Teppei comes back, boom it's over, it was a nice chance and now there's nothing left.

[Klashikari]

^ yup, and to reinforce this point, here is what Rika said during the Minagoroshi prologue, when she was introducing the worlds :

This fragment is called 'Tatarigoroshi'.

......Satoko's uncle came home, took Satoko with him, and locked himself away.

In a way, it was the unluckiest world.
A complete dead end, no matter how hard Rika tried.
If it happens again, I figure it would be best to cry about our lack of luck and just give up on that world.

Fortunately, her uncle rarely comes back.

In a way, Teppei's presence is enough to create RULE X altogether (as shown with Keiichi in Tatarigoroshi-hen and Shion in this chapter) along with the huge distress and despair of her dearest friend in such state.

Ironically, if Satoko's unhappiness doesn't happen (so if Rina isn't killed), it can lead to Rena's unhappiness, so Tsumihoroboshi-hen. This is the reason why Teppei is a very huge piece of unhappiness among Rika's friend, in a way he is extremely a black omen, either being there or not...

[Jimmy C]

Ironically, if Satoko's unhappiness doesn't happen (so if Rina isn't killed), it can lead to Rena's unhappiness, so Tsumihoroboshi-hen.

Is it like this?
If Rena's father refuses Rina, she winds up needing to make a quick escape but fails. Leading to Tatarigoroshi-hen. If Rena's father didn't refuse her it leads to Tsumihoroboroshi-hen.

[Klashikari]

Is it like this?
If Rena's father refuses Rina, she winds up needing to make a quick escape but fails. Leading to Tatarigoroshi-hen. If Rena's father didn't refuse her it leads to Tsumihoroboroshi-hen.

not exactly. Rina always goes around Mr Ryuuguu. However, she is kinda too greedy and target several guys at the same time.
In some scenario, Rina made a very bad mistake and hit on Yakuza. Of course, the aftermath is what you saw in this episode, leading her to her demise. This is the trigger of "Houjou Teppei returns back home". (and before you ask, NO it is NOT the sonozaki, they are other yakuza)

Otherwise, if that doesn't happen, Rina and Teppei still pimp money.

after that, tsumihoroboshi CAN happen if Rena is too tense and/or she discovered what Rina is truely plotting with her father.
If Rina doesn't die, that doesn't mean it will be tsumihoroboshi. But until Rena complains to her Father, the later is under the full charm of Rina, and doesn't suspect anything.

Rina is a canon part of the past, and She and Mr Ryuuguu know each other way before the current present.

[MrZombie]

I'm not sure that Rina's death isn't caused by some faction of the Sonozaki. I mean look at the state her body's found in Tatarigoroshi-hen. It certainly seems like the kind of death the Sonozakis would give someone as a warning to others. And if it's not them, it certainly would be a group that's at least familiar with the Sonozakis.

[Rias]

not exactly. Rina always goes around Mr Ryuuguu. However, she is kinda too greedy and target several guys at the same time.
In some scenario, Rina made a very bad mistake and hit on Yakuza. Of course, the aftermath is what you saw in this episode, leading her to her demise. This is the trigger of "Houjou Teppei returns back home". (and before you ask, NO it is NOT the sonozaki, they are other yakuza)

Otherwise, if that doesn't happen, Rina and Teppei still pimp money.

after that, tsumihoroboshi CAN happen if Rena is too tense and/or she discovered what Rina is truely plotting with her father.
If Rina doesn't die, that doesn't mean it will be tsumihoroboshi. But until Rena complains to her Father, the later is under the full charm of Rina, and doesn't suspect anything.

Rina is a canon part of the past, and She and Mr Ryuuguu know each other way before the current present.

Minagoroshi-hen: Can't remember if they explained in the anime, but recall that Rena sucessfully drove off Rina, by taking over his father's money (a stratergy came up by Mion, after they did some talking). Rina basically went away, since there's no money to get from Rena's father, and the tragerdy that triggers Tsumihoroboshi-hen was adverted.

Later on, we see that Rina is found by Yakuza guys, for screwing around too much. Recall the tattoo that Rina has, and we know that the corpse that was shown in the beginning of Tatarigoroshi-hen is indeed hers. From Tatarigoroshi-hen and Tsumihoroboshi-hen, we can deduce that once Rina is dead, Teppei would lose his source of income, and is forced to go back to Hinamizawa.

Teppei and Rina doesn't always shows up in Hinamizawa, and doesn't always target Rena's father. We do have other arcs, after all.

Final note: I am not 100% sure, but I think those Yakuza that shows up and kills Rina DOES belong to the Sonozaki family. During that scene in the game, Kasai shows up and does the talking instead. :heh:

[Klashikari]

I'm not sure that Rina's death isn't caused by some faction of the Sonozaki. I mean look at the state her body's found in Tatarigoroshi-hen. It certainly seems like the kind of death the Sonozakis would give someone as a warning to others. And if it's not them, it certainly would be a group that's at least familiar with the Sonozakis.

Final note: I am not 100% sure, but I think those Yakuza that shows up and kills Rina DOES belong to the Sonozaki family. During that scene in the game, Kasai shows up and does the talking instead. :heh:

Indeed, this TIPS (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=580005&postcount=51) and that one (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=577156&postcount=50) indicate this might be the Sonozaki, while Rina was having fun on her job location. I'm kinda concerned about what was shown on Mion and Keiichi's discussion during Tatarigoroshi-hen.
Ho well, looks like i stated something to hasty anyway.

Teppei and Rina doesn't always shows up in Hinamizawa, and doesn't always target Rena's father. We do have other arcs, after all.also Rias, what do you mean is Rina isn't always around Mr. Ryuuguu in the past? It would be hard to believe he would go "back to normal" without her, as far as i could read. Again, i don't expect her to be always around him, considering how greedy she and Teppei are anyway :heh:
That said, I firmly thought it was because Rena eavesdrop that commotion where Teppei and Rina were doing their usual shows with 2 wussy guys. And that she begun to get confirmaiton with kasai's explanations. Aside of this, i'm wondering how Rena can go through this extreme action while she doesn't know anything of this. *scratches his head*

[Sterling01]

I'm kinda concerned about what was shown on Mion and Keiichi's discussion during Tatarigoroshi-hen.

Do you mean in the game or show:confused:

[Klashikari]

Do you mean in the game or show:confused:
Both.
Keiichi asked if Mion could try to make the "curse targets Houjou Teppei", claiming he doesn't care if she is one of the commanders or not etc.

Mion clearly says that she is just Sonozaki Mion, and perfectly aknowledges the fact the Sonozaki had a bad reputation. However, she adds they wouldn't kill anyone, whoever it is, in any circumstance.

this claim is supported by what Mion revealed to Shion in Meakashi-hen: Oryou didn't do anything to Satoshi etc. (despite what she claimed about the Houjou etc)
If we take in account the amount of bluffs they accumulated (the incidents, the kidnapping etc), the Sonozaki don't really look like bloodthirsty yakuza.

[Rias]

also Rias, what do you mean is Rina isn't always around Mr. Ryuuguu in the past? It would be hard to believe he would go "back to normal" without her, as far as i could read. Again, i don't expect her to be always around him, considering how greedy she and Teppei are anyway :heh:
That said, I firmly thought it was because Rena eavesdrop that commotion where Teppei and Rina were doing their usual shows with 2 wussy guys. And that she begun to get confirmaiton with kasai's explanations. Aside of this, i'm wondering how Rena can go through this extreme action while she doesn't know anything of this. *scratches his head*


What I meant was that I don't think Rina targets Mr. Ryuugu in every arc. I think some arcs they just hang around and targets other people, and of course we have the arcs where Mr.Ryuugu is targeted (Tsumihoroboshi/Minagoroshi-hen). We know that Rina's demise triggers Teppei's return, as shown in Tatarigoroshi/Tsumihoroboshi/Minagoroshi-hen, but we can't say that Teppei not returning is a result of Rina working on Mr.Ryuugu.

[Klashikari]

^ great, i feared i was wrong from the very beginning all this time, you just removed a torn on my foot :heh:

I guess if Rina targets Mr. Ryuuguu, chances Rena kills her are high enough.
But i'm just wondering how Rina can change her agenda like this. or maybe their relationship is recent? (i can't believe this, since this is the trigger of Rena's "Hauu behaviour" and should have at least last more than 1 month, otherwise, it would be weird for Keiichi to encounter suddenly this chance.)

geh... we can tell the variables in higurashi are so unpredictable ~~"

[Sushi-Y]

the Sonozaki don't really look like bloodthirsty yakuza.
Mion's dad is a yakuza boss in the region, so technically, Sonozaki does control the yakuza. However, since Mion's dad was wed into the family, he does not have the right to succeed the Sonozaki house (Mion does). So I guess you could say that the yakuza business is something that occurs alongside other true Sonozaki family businesses.

If I remember right, the people who got to Rina are indeed Sonozaki yakuzas. What determines whether or not she is caught depends on how greedy she got in that particular world, I think.

---

Great episode again. We're finally starting up on the first hurdle that Minagoroshi-hen poses. Teppei's return, like everyone mentioned earlier, is not absolute. But when it does happen, it means certain bad ending for Rika. Up until now, we have only seen 6s in our dice throws, Teppei's return would be the 1 that has shown up for the first time.

I can't really pick out any flaws since I can't remember the game details myself anymore either, but as far as I can tell, they're following the game story very tightly. The sudden change in atmosphere is expected, since that was pretty much what it was like it in the game: get you filled up with hope and optimism, and then kick you down a ravine with Teppei's return. What's important is what Keiichi will do about it. The next episode will be Keiichi's turn to shine where he truly make uses of his charisma and reasoning skills properly for the first time.

Even without the game's original music, the show could use some up-tempo tracks or two here, it feels kind of weird to hear that same old slow suspensive tone even during the more intensive scenes.

From the preview, it looks like they're not skipping out on Keiichi's recruitment of Kameda-kun and other otakus Angel Mort customers either. That was a great scene so I'm definitely looking forward to it. :heh:

Oh yeah, this week's episode corresponds with these TIPS:
- Moments Before Skipping Town (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=690965&postcount=137)
- The Start of Trouble (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=691219&postcount=138)
- Reception Memo (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=691267&postcount=139)

[Davidj]

^ great, i feared i was wrong from the very beginning all this time, you just removed a torn on my foot :heh:

I guess if Rina targets Mr. Ryuuguu, chances Rena kills her are high enough.
But i'm just wondering how Rina can change her agenda like this. or maybe their relationship is recent? (i can't believe this, since this is the trigger of Rena's "Hauu behaviour"

It isn't, actually. Even without Rina moving into town, Rena still has the burden of her psychotic episode leading to her father's divorce and depression. Rena has decided that pretending not to be depressed and stressed is the way to keep bad things from happening. The pretend Rena is quite stupid, alway happy and wildly obsessed with cuteness. The real Rena is probably the smartest member of the group*, and pretends to be "treasure-hunting" in a junkyard so that she can take a break from pretending to be cute and happy and just stare up at a starmap and fantasise about the aliens taking her away from her rotten life.

[Klashikari]

^ of course Rina alone wouldn't be the trigger.
but as far as i can remember, Rena explained her "hauu" attitude was mainly aimed to make her forget about her "current" families issues.

but i guess it isn't only Rina, but might be the current erratic situation with her father, considering how he is slacking off with job and the like.

As for her hauu behaviour, It is quite difficult to really say if she "pretends" or is really like this (of course, she never was like this to begin with). Of course, she is really mature and sharp, but considering how consistant her behaviour is, it becomes part of her personality somehow. (not a complete lie, i assume, rather a shell which imprinted somehow on her true personality, as the benefit and habit are quite present)

[Sterling01]

The .ASS file is done, so subs should come soon

[Sterling01]

The sub is out now

[Pakxenon]

I shat bricks when Rika told off Takano and Irie. Later, K1 shows off his GARness. Then finally, when they banded together before the credits, I fucking cried. ;_;

But yes, it was quite the turnaround of mood. Just an episode back we see a hopeful Rika, then in 5 minutes her hopes are completely crushed. T______T

[kingsky123]

^ of course Rina alone wouldn't be the trigger.
but as far as i can remember, Rena explained her "hauu" attitude was mainly aimed to make her forget about her "current" families issues.

but i guess it isn't only Rina, but might be the current erratic situation with her father, considering how he is slacking off with job and the like.

As for her hauu behaviour, It is quite difficult to really say if she "pretends" or is really like this (of course, she never was like this to begin with). Of course, she is really mature and sharp, but considering how consistant her behaviour is, it becomes part of her personality somehow. (not a complete lie, i assume, rather a shell which imprinted somehow on her true personality, as the benefit and habit are quite present)

"i thought she went 'hau' cause of *ahem*rape*ahem*

[FlareKnight]

Man this was a massive shift to be sure. You had things going well and then your shot down hard. That bastard Teppei making a return really helps to mess things up to be sure. I was worried he'd come back as well as Rika early in the episode. Trying to figure out a way certainly had my mind running in circles.

Poor Rika really getting smacked from the highs to the bottom of the barrel. I could feel with her appeal to have that guy taken out. Really this world is one weird combo of the lucky and the unlucky. With Rina dead the police are too close for them to act. Was shocked by Rika freaking out but I guess its understandable considering all she's been going through. Plus losing contact with Akasaka is a problem.

The memories continue playing a role in the others fighting to keep trying and Keiichi from losing his head again. This would've been a new result with Shion being the one to take down Satoko's uncle. Keiichi was really impressive halting Shion's rampage and seeking real council from his parents and not just to help his perfect murder plot.

Was nice to have Rika back in it at the end. Even if she feels its hopeless she can't just give up on Satoko.

[JokerD]

I like this world, people having flashbacks left and right. Sion almost 'settling' thing in minutes. Rika seems to be going 'black' too often for my liking but other than that it's a good world...

From the reviews, seems like next week will be a blast as well. Rise of the children's crusade.

Teppei deserves to be smacked down... hard:frustrated: Someone needs to tell Irie that Satoko will never wear a maid costume again. I bet that'll get him into action.:heh: That or making protecting Satoko part of the deal with Takano, I bet he wouldn't even reach the village alive then.

[Irwin1138]

It seems like every new episode becomes even shorter than the previous one. Arrrrgh!

[karumofin]

what bothers me isnt the change of atmosphere, but rikas annoyingly quick change of attitude.

[Kang Seung Jae]

what bothers me isnt the change of atmosphere, but rikas annoyingly quick change of attitude.

Forgive her, she's been through this for more than 100 years, and finally gets a "perfect" world to start in.

[FlareKnight]

True enough I'd cut the girl a bit of slack. After all that time it seems the skys have opened up and given her enough to work with to battle through to victory. What seems to be the luckiest world, has hit the worst possible snag to deal with.

Sure I wasn't happy with her going into depression after Satoko's uncle showed up. But she tried all the routes she could think of and it seemed fate had once again smacked her into the ground. If in a world where things seemed to finally go right something terrible like this still can happen it must be hard to keep the spirits alive to fight on.

[MrZombie]

what bothers me isnt the change of atmosphere, but rikas annoyingly quick change of attitude.

We've been over this already. Teppei coming back means this world is a dead end. Every single time.

[Cheezy]

Wow, the part when Rika yelled at Irie and Takano was really unexpected, and Keiichi is as awesome as ever.

[KaneDragon]

...Let yourself get hit. That was your great plan? =P

Shion says 1500 seconds, I think Minesweeper. =/

Gotta love Rika's emo facial distortions. A pissed-off Rika is a very intimidating loli.

[dspr8_rugged]

Nice episode as always. It's really nice how this series does a 360 when it comes to emotions.

The episode title sure explained itself. Teppei simply screwed up Rika's hopes just like that. And Keiichi sure is kicking ass with each episode in this arc.

It was nice that Rika's emo scene didn't look bad, unlike last season's infamous facial distortions.

[kingsky123]

omg... i hate cliffhangers :(

[Davidj]

...Let yourself get hit. That was your great plan? =P



I think it's better than "Let myself get strapped down and tortured to death" personally.

[HigurashiNeze1231]

Watched it subbed, since I already saw the raw I could understand most of what was going on already, but it made things more dramatic seeing it now. Looks like Teppei has to come back and ruin Rika's seemingly perfect world in a matter of one episode... and it looks like Keiichi is owning in this world. :eek: The preview for episode 9 looks cool too, maybe everyone can go on over to Teppei's house and beat the crap out of him. :D

[Darklightz]

Wow that was intense. Poor Rika, she's so close to getting all the "good endings" I"m not surprised he got so pissed at Takano and Irie

But Irie gave her the perfect solution. The Yamainu are here only to protect Rika,so all Rika needs to do is provoke Teppei into harming her (knowing the guy it shouldn't be too hard) and the Yamainu would step into action and neutralize Teppei.

But that would be easy and wouldn't include Keiichi and the gang, so I wonder what Keiichi's plan is now. Everything seemed so much simpler in the past worlds. Someone annoying you? Kill him! But in this "good world" people have to use their heads to solve their problems.

[Davidj]

Wow that was intense. Poor Rika, she's so close to getting all the "good endings" I"m not surprised he got so pissed at Takano and Irie

But Irie gave her the perfect solution. The Yamainu are here only to protect Rika,so all Rika needs to do is provoke Teppei into harming her (knowing the guy it shouldn't be too hard) and the Yamainu would step into action and neutralize Teppei.



They're not gonna kill Teppei while the cops are watching him. At best they'd extract Rika from the situation and take her back to the clinic to be heavily tranquilised. In fact if Rika had successfully used the Yamainu to sanction Teppei, I can see the seeds of paranoia being planted right there. It's a plan that just won't fly even if we weren't rapidly approaching the point where the wild dogs turn. As for Keiichi's plan, essentially this is a political problem and calls for a political solution. What he needs to do is get at oba-sama Sonozaki. Which is, I assume, why the title of the next chapter is "Persuasion".

[SSJiffy]

Finally I know what the Yamainu's presence is there for. Man, that's a load of wondering off my mind. Was I the only one who didn't know what they were there for?

Much love goes out to K1 for his badass performance in the last few episodes. I loved the way he stood up to Shion's escalating haste and homicidal intent. It was excellent and so unexpected.

Overall I felt the episode was one of a quick turn into despair and depression as Teppei came back on scene. It was a slap in the face type of shock. I felt like Rika did when she realized why Satoko didn't come home. Bleh~

Really looking forward to the next episode from watching the preview. I think I'll hibernate for a week so it'll get here faster. Anyone want to join me :D?


"i thought she went 'hau' cause of *ahem*rape*ahem*
In the anime the answer offered was of the school incident at the city she moved to and her suicidal tendencies. But, does the game offer something else or did I miss something while watching the anime?

[Juan Valdez]

We've been over this already. Teppei coming back means this world is a dead end. Every single time.

So far though, hasn't every world ended up being a dead end anyway?

[Klashikari]

In the anime the answer offered was of the school incident at the city she moved to and her suicidal tendencies. But, does the game offer something else or did I miss something while watching the anime?

in fact, i felt the "school incident" in the anime was rather something to show rena's "madness" and that it could be a reason why she moved from Ibaraki.
In the game, when keiichi and the rest confronted her in the junkyard, Rena explained she had that behaviour to forget her family issues right now. (the anime cut it short, and just let her speech about happiness. While in the game, everything was explained)

So far though, hasn't every world ended up being a dead end anyway?
More likely, instant death/despair, while the other worlds were just... "just as planned by the Fate"

[BakaOnna]

I gotta agree with everyone else, Keiichi is owning this arc and world. :heh: This is one series where 24 minutes feel way too short. I really want to see what happens next.

[Sorrow-K]

What an amazing episode. It was dramatic, intense... and just outstanding. All of a sudden, I'm starting to think Higurashi Kai may well be a candidate for anime of the year.

The Shion v Keiichi scene was brilliant! This is how you do drama, IMO. Everything in the scene was executed perfectly for such a verbal conflict: the dialogue was great, the voice acting was superb (particularly from Satsuki Yukino, certainly reprising the amazing performance she gave in the first season), the choice of music was fitting and the atmosphere was just intense. It's scenes like this that can define a series, and I don't think it's overstating things to say it was brilliant.

Higurashi Kai is really starting to shape up to be a very special anime at this rate.


geh... we can tell the variables in higurashi are so unpredictable ~~"
Hence why I think the universe is probabilistic. There are certain things that can happen, like Teppei's return or Akasaka saving his wife, that seemingly don't depend on other variables but only happen in some (but not all) universes. Rika obviously has a certain degree of control over what happens in a given universe, but it's fairly clear that there are a number of things she can't control and in a lot of circumstances, she has no choice by to rely on her luck. And, in this world, it was good until Teppei turned up.

[Omfgbbqwtf]

I love this episode! Things like Keiichi keeping his cool throughout the whole episode, Rika going uber crazy mode (first time seeing her like this I believe), and Rina getting owned. Next episode looks interesting too, seems like they are going for an all-out march towards.... somewhere.

[Klashikari]

Hence why I think the universe is probabilistic. There are certain things that can happen, like Teppei's return or Akasaka saving his wife, that seemingly don't depend on other variables but only happen in some (but not all) universes. Rika obviously has a certain degree of control over what happens in a given universe, but it's fairly clear that there are a number of things she can't control and in a lot of circumstances, she has no choice by to rely on her luck. And, in this world, it was good until Teppei turned up.
Well, in fact, i was more likely talking about the environment, which is utterly not possible to control, of course.
Everything is rather something similar to a check point in a gamere, whereas each reload will simply recreate the given "world" with the recorded informations done by the "player" (Rika), and using variables for uncontrolled point (thus... the REST :heh:)

Well then, not late this time, here is the analysis of the week, but a bit shorter this time considering the content of this episode.
Episode 8 : Analysis (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-8-analysis-thoughts-and-random-comments/)

Next week : EPIC !

[FlareKnight]

Am interested what's going to happen next time. Certainly seems Keiichi is going to try and impress yet again. I can see him lobbying at least the school together. Either to try and convince those social workers again or taking Satoko away from her uncle.

It does take something to keep your cool in a situation like Shion freaking out. Not bad keeping his speech going even after getting smacked in the head with a chair. Last thing they needed was Shion getting on a rampage since it would've no doubt sent things into an even worse situation.

[Cheezy]

Next episode looks interesting too, seems like they are going for an all-out march towards.... somewhere.

Towards Teppei's house. :mad:

[Animexcel]

Wow, this one is really interesting. I agree that Keiichi is getting awesome now, and I was surprised that Rika snapped too. If only we could put all these characters in the Jerry Springer show.

[dspr8_rugged]

OMG on that sig. :eyebrow:

I noticed that Kameda is on the preview for the next episode... and hell, he's eating sweets. :heh:

Seriously, K1 sure doesn't need a bat all the time to solve things. Never thought he was such a smooth talker. Now I wonder if he can do it with girls... in "another" manner. Anyway, that's just random thinking.

[Animexcel]

OMG on that sig. :eyebrow:




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/A-20/anime/what.gif

[Darklightz]

Seriously, K1 sure doesn't need a bat all the time to solve things. Never thought he was such a smooth talker. Now I wonder if he can do it with girls... in "another" manner. Anyway, that's just random thinking.

Keiichi can be a pretty convincing guy...when he's not consumed by paranoia himself that it.

[Sterling01]

The whole reason he was picked to do the auction thing was because he's a "Magician with Words"

[rogueblade]

Well that episode was... magical. I mean, it was just plain old-school awesome. Just so intense and well done.

The preview for next episode looks similar, as well - but there seems to be an all-too familiar scene in there which suggests that it may well end badly...

[littletomatoes]

This might be a little off topic but: shouldn't it be really easy for rika and Hanyu to find out who is the mastermind? After all hanyu could just float around and follow one of the "janitors" or men in green and see who is commanding them. I'm perplexed as to why they had not tried this.

[Kang Seung Jae]

This might be a little off topic but: shouldn't it be really easy for rika and Hanyu to find out who is the mastermind? After all hanyu could just float around and follow one of the "janitors" or men in green and see who is commanding them. I'm perplexed as to why they had not tried this.

1. Hanyuu isn't all-powerful.

2. They never expected the "janitors" as the reason for the disaster.

3. They already got enough on their hands trying to stop Rule X from happening.

[Mystearika]

woow keiichi is really getting cool, i cant wait to next week

[MrZombie]

1. Hanyuu isn't all-powerful.

2. They never expected the "janitors" as the reason for the disaster.

3. They already got enough on their hands trying to stop Rule X from happening.

It's not that Hanyuu's not all powerful, it's that she's a chicken. She would never hang around with Rika as she waits for death because she'd be too afraid to watch what happens.

[Blick Winkel]

Greetings, a long 4th dimmension lurker and Higurashi fan here ;)
Another great episode, Rika's scene at the clinic made my jaw dropped really hard, but I have translation question: Rika's plea for help at clinic "issho no onegai nano desu": should it mean "it's the wish of my life" (to which version I'd incline my ears) or rather "we share the same wish" (as translated by Hauu~ )?

[Phar]

Greetings, a long 4th dimmension lurker and Higurashi fan here ;)
Another great episode, Rika's scene at the clinic made my jaw dropped really hard, but I have translation question: Rika's plea for help at clinic "issho no onegai nano desu": should it mean "it's the wish of my life" (to which version I'd incline my ears) or rather "we share the same wish" (as translated by Hauu~ )?

You're right. It was a mistranslation.

[kingsky123]

just curious... what was rena's response to the 1500 second?

[rimaa]

Rika going crazy and telling Takano and Irie how they're going to die was a well done scene.

Cant wait to see next weeks ep

[Rias]

just curious... what was rena's response to the 1500 second?


Rena is scary when she is mad:heh:

1500 seconds? That takes too long!! If it's me then it would take less than 1000 seconds!! Instead of blabbing on like Shii-chan, I would just keep quiet, get out the classroom, and excute the plan!!

[FlareKnight]

Well I guess it does take time to get from the school to Satoko's place. If your serious killing the guy shouldn't be all that complicated I guess. Important lesson of course to not broadcast your killing plans to people.

[raikage]

We've been over this already. Teppei coming back means this world is a dead end. Every single time.

But that flies in the face of the current "YOU have the power to change destiny!" vibe that's going on.

Of course, this arc will undoubtedly have a bad ending since there's one more chapter to go -- but that doesn't mean that they can't get Satoko away from her uncle.

And that could very well happen in this arc -- they've spent so much time on "Rule X" in the past chapters; about each other main character going insane -- that perhaps now they'll focus more on who's killing Tomitake/Takano/Irie.

[Matrim]

Great episode, I had monstrous expectations and expected this to get in the way of me enjoying it which never happened.

I was quite surprised that Rika knew about the Yamainu and that Irie and Takano knew that she knew. But since Irie ordered Takano to contact the Yamainu, this might be a hint pointing at the possibility of Takano twisting the orders for her own benefit and possibly killing Irie and Tomitake.

If the police is watching Teppei carefully and assuming this was the case in Tatarigoroshi-hen too, how come Keiichi managed to kill him in without being caught immediately?

The Shion v Keiichi scene was brilliant! This is how you do drama, IMO

Quoted for truth.

As for Rika suddenly getting so depressed after being so hopeful, I say what's wrong with that? Has it never happened to you? I think she got so depressed exactly because she was so optimistic before disaster struck. As they say, the higher you go, the harder you fall.

[Kang Seung Jae]

If the police is watching Teppei carefully and assuming this was the case in Tatarigoroshi-hen too, how come Keiichi managed to kill him in without being caught immediately?

You don't really expect the police to follow Teppei 24 hours a day, do you?

Plus, the murder was committed in the forest, a place that Teppei wouldn't usually go.

[Matrim]

You don't really expect the police to follow Teppei 24 hours a day, do you?

I usually wouldn't but if the Yamainu who as we know are professionals and can kill skillfully without hesitation are thinking the police would prevent them from killing Teppei maybe he is indeed followed 24 hours a day. Or maybe this indicates that Takano was lying when she said this was the reason why they won't help Rika.

[MrZombie]

But that flies in the face of the current "YOU have the power to change destiny!" vibe that's going on.

Of course, this arc will undoubtedly have a bad ending since there's one more chapter to go -- but that doesn't mean that they can't get Satoko away from her uncle.

And that could very well happen in this arc -- they've spent so much time on "Rule X" in the past chapters; about each other main character going insane -- that perhaps now they'll focus more on who's killing Tomitake/Takano/Irie.

Yes it does fly in the face of it for one reason. That reason is that everything that could be done has been done in other worlds and the out come was still the same. Nothing happened. Nothing could get child services to take Satoko from out of her uncle's "care" and that drives someone, I guessing usually Keiichi to kill Teppei.

Almost makes you think that there's someone out there preventing child services from doing anything. Like what every character has said the abuse is obvious to anyone that's seen Satoko in this state.

[Blick Winkel]

I usually wouldn't but if the Yamainu who as we know are professionals and can kill skillfully without hesitation
Maybe that's the problem. The last thing Tomitake gang want, is to risk the extra attention of police - especially after proffesionally "removed" Teppei.
In my opinion they would be able to do it, but this extra police attention is one bridge too far. They have probably strict orders to protect Rika, we can see Irie was hesitant to order them to take care of Teppei (and we know he is very fond of Satoko) yet this police attention is the borderline they won't cross.

[Matrim]

Yes, they wouldn't cross that borderline all right...if the police is watching Teppei constantly, that is. If not, I think it should be a piece of cake for the Yamainu to kill Teppei and make it look as if the yakuza did it.

[BakaOnna]

I've always been kinda lost of the Rule X, Y and Z thing. Am I correct to asume that...

Rule X is basically someone will go crazy in each arc. Rule Y is Tomitake and Takano's death, and Rule Z is Rika's getting Watanagashi'd followed by the Great Hinamizawa Dam disaster. So does that mean that once Rule X + Rule Y happen, it will ultimately lead to Rule Z?

In this arc, everyone is busy trying to prevent Rule X from happening. Despite that, it's important to prevent both Rule X and Rule Y from happening in order for Rule Z to not happen. However, Teppei is literally a bad "piece" that can ruin a world even if Rule X never happens. Is that right?

[Kang Seung Jae]

I've always been kinda lost of the Rule X, Y and Z thing. Am I correct to asume that...

Rule X is basically someone will go crazy in each arc. Rule Y is Tomitake and Takano's death, and Rule Z is Rika's getting Watanagashi'd followed by the Great Hinamizawa Dam disaster. So does that mean that once Rule X + Rule Y happen, it will ultimately lead to Rule Z?

In this arc, everyone is busy trying to prevent Rule X from happening. Despite that, it's important to prevent both Rule X and Rule Y from happening in order for Rule Z to not happen. However, Teppei is literally a bad "piece" that can ruin a world even if Rule X never happens. Is that right?

Actually, it's:

Rule X: Someone will be paronoid, suspecting everyone of hiding something (leading to murders)

Rule Y: There are some hidden, outside influence.

Rule Z: The Sonozaki seems to be center of the "curses," which feeds Rule X.

[BakaOnna]

Actually, it's:

Rule X: Someone will be paronoid, suspecting everyone of hiding something (leading to murders)

Rule Y: There are some hidden, outside influence

Rule Z: The Sonozaki seems to be center of the "curses," which feeds Rule X.

Oh... okay... So I was about half-ish correct... at least with Rule X. Most people talk about Rule X, especially in this arc. So what's the relation of the three?

[Kang Seung Jae]

Oh... okay... So I was about half-ish correct... at least with Rule X. Most people talk about Rule X, especially in this arc. So what's the relation of the three?

How about reading the TIPS and the Pieces first?

Please attempt to find out for yourself before asking questions that can be answered by researching.

[BakaOnna]

How about reading the TIPS and the Pieces first?

Please attempt to find out for yourself before asking questions that can be answered by researching.

I've actually read the TIPS and Wikipedia, so please don't go asuming that I haven't done my fair share of research. Granted, I read them quite a while ago, back when the first season ended, so things as such may have slipped my mind.

[Matrim]

You can read more about the rules in this blog entry (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-6-analysis-thoughts-and-random-comments/).

[Kang Seung Jae]

I've actually read the TIPS and Wikipedia, so please don't go asuming that I haven't done my fair share of research. Granted, I read them quite a while ago, back when the first season ended, so things as such may have slipped my mind.

All right.

About the rules:

Rule X is what has constantly happened in Higurashi, with one character going "
mad" and killing someone. Most of the madness was feeded by Rule Z (Sonozaki family is behind the curses), as can be seen in Onikakushi-hen (Keiichi suspicious of the village people), Watanagashi-hen (Shion thinking her grandmother killed the Houjou family), etc.

As you can see, in the anime-version of Minagoroshi-hen, almost all of the bad things that happened in the other chapters (Keiichi killing mion and Rena, Shion going crazy, Rena killing Rina) has been avoided. Rika is currently focused on preventing Rule X from happening, not all that concerned with Rule Y yet. Given how most of the events that triggered Rule X has been avoided, RIka is desperate to keep X from happening, clouding her to Rule Y.




Dang, that blog above pretty much explains everything.

[SeventhHS]

Given how most of the events that triggered Rule X has been avoided, RIka is desperate to keep X from happening, clouding her to Rule Y.


Yakusamashi broke this (since Rule X never really happened in that chapter), but perhaps Rika hopes that managing to defeat Rule X before Watanagashi will undermine Rule Y somehow. I don't think she really has any other leads to prevent Rule Y... except maybe latching onto Tomitake the night of Watanagashi and never letting go, which would probably only result in her dying ahead of schedule. I expect she's already tried it in one world or another.

[BakaOnna]

You can read more about the rules in this blog entry (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-6-analysis-thoughts-and-random-comments/).
Thanks. That explained a lot. I'll be following that blog from now on, even though I read the latest entry for ep. 8.

[Klashikari]

If the police is watching Teppei carefully and assuming this was the case in Tatarigoroshi-hen too, how come Keiichi managed to kill him in without being caught immediately?


The anime failed because they didn't portrayed KOOL K in his brainstorming "how to kill Teppei".
First, Keiichi never goes and kills Teppei on a whim. After Satoko's breakdown, Keiichi couldn't hold anymore, but rather doing a murder, it is an assassination.

Keiichi didn't ask random advice, but surely wondered how to perform a perfect crime. As result, with the "no prologue" part, he understood that if Teppei dies under a specific condition that no one would care, it is safe.
And guess what? it is the Watanagashi festival, the fated day where "murders become accepted". Keiichi knew it, because of how he deduced from the "curse", which he didn't really believe. (this is even more proved as he was pleading for Mion to "make the curse targets teppei" )

Therefore, That explains how the Yamainu cannot kill teppei and how Keiichi could. Simply, the police is too busy to keep watch on the festival, and many holes can be found.
Remember that Takano said they can't move until the police mark is removed, and she said it is probably during the Festival.

[Echoes]

The anime failed because they didn't portrayed KOOL K in his brainstorming "how to kill Teppei".
First, Keiichi never goes and kills Teppei on a whim. After Satoko's breakdown, Keiichi couldn't hold anymore, but rather doing a murder, it is an assassination.


Ah, I see. It makes perfect sense, but I never thought about it that way, because, as you said, the anime never shows K1 plotting anything, he just goes ahead and does it.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Klashikari]

Ah, I see. It makes perfect sense, but I never thought about it that way, because, as you said, the anime never shows K1 plotting anything, he just goes ahead and does it.

Thanks for the clarification.

heh, if only i wasn't that lazy :heh:
well, actually i found Sushi-Y's post of episode 11 from Season 1 which shows very well what REALLY happened.
Keiichi's monologue and Teppei's assassination (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=591936&postcount=22)

As you can see, Keiichi wasn't going "for satoko" out from the blue, nor he was sane. well, he was sane in some extent, but an anger much more explosive than shion's (damn... the anime looked like "oh ye... why not killin dat bastard then?" OTZ)

I completely forgot they also secrewed Keiichi's past, which was another reason why he is so dedicated to his friends in general. Keiichi is anywhere from the usual "cheesy shounen" because of this in fact.

*sigh* if only they could redo Tatarigoroshi-hen with the same angst and execution of Yakusamashi... (one of the best arc in term of climax becoming one of the worst... ironic at best...)

[Exilon]

This episode turned me around. Literally. More than Takano's moeness, I was more surprised to see Blak Rika yelling around at the clinic. I will never forget that scene. It was... suberb. I was like "OMG GO Rika!"

Awesome epsiode, (and arc)... the next episode should be even more awesome, and I can't wait for it.

Man, this series is being HEAVY.

You, go burn in the mountains! You, go kill yourself with narcotics! Die! Die! Everyone die! WAAAAAAAAA!

As I said, heavy. O_o

[Matrim]

Remember that Takano said they can't move until the police mark is removed, and she said it is probably during the Festival.

I actually thought of that but then again the sub says the Yamainu cannot move until after Watanagashi. Takano of all people should know the best time to kill someone would be during Watanagashi, right? Could it be that the Yamainu have other targets planned for Watanagashi? Like Tomitake?

And Tatarigoroshi-hen did seem like it was not that great of an adaptation even without me playing the game but it certainly left the impression that Keiichi did plan the murder well, so that's not what bothers me.

[FlareKnight]

Yeah interesting how the Yamainu will be best to move after the festival. Guess it's entirely possible they will be busy with another objective. One would think it'd be best to take someone out then. Though Rika did convince them to beef up security for that festival so maybe they just don't have the time with the protection to focus on Satoko's uncle.

Certainly some pretty heavy scenes in this episode. Rika snapping in the clinic and Keiichi vs Shion standoff.Can't wait to see what comes out of next week.

[Klashikari]

I actually thought of that but then again the sub says the Yamainu cannot move until after Watanagashi. Takano of all people should know the best time to kill someone would be during Watanagashi, right? Could it be that the Yamainu have other targets planned for Watanagashi? Like Tomitake?
Not exactly. We can guess that the police will lift any mark ongoing, until they discover something as an aftermath of the festival. According a TIP, the police of Okimoniya track any strange incident down. and anything can after the festival as well (much like what we could see with the other arcs)
In fact, Ooishi and everyone else are convinced that something WILL happen, that's why the police is dispatched during the festival and afterwards.

EDIT: fount it : It's time for the festival (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=557818&postcount=31)

[Sinestra]

Through various difficulties i just sat down and watched episode 8 last night and of course i gave it a 10. Im still in awe over seeing Rika flip out like that and then to see her slide back into her depressing/giving up state was somewhat dishearting. But only to see her turn around and in an emotional plee say she is not ready to give up yet and want Keiichi to help Satoko. I happent to agree with Rika I dont think Rika will come across another world with more possiblites than this one and she is running out of time. I gave mad props to Keiichi in this one not only for standing his ground and willing to defy destiny again but for taking that chair shot like man.

I wanted to punch the mindless robot of a woman at the child protection agency, she was no help at all and didnt look she gave a damn. I do hope the gang finds a way to help Satoko without violence. Rena and Keiichi seem to have the most memories out of everyone flooding back to them, to me this is a good sign. But again HIgurashi is great at taking hope and smashing it to pieces to dramatic effect. Ill be holding my breath for the next episode plus we are getting closer to the watanagashi festival time is ticking for heros

[Exilon]

I wanted to punch the mindless robot of a woman at the child protection agency, she was no help at all and didnt look she gave a damn.


I agree with you. Furthermore, if I was Kechii, I would have brought the baseball bat along with me. xD

[Rias]

There's not much the agency people can do. First off, Satoko has a bad history with them in the past. Also, there are pressure from the villagers.

The most important thing is of course, Satoko did not request help this time. As we learn from Tatarigoroshi-hen, that Satoko thinks the whole thing is a trial for her. Added on the guilt she feels about her ni-ni's disappearance, she thinks that she doesn't need any outside help.

[Jaden]

Good episode, we don't get as much clues as from the last episode, this one's mostly progression of events. Things are looking bad, but still salvageable. None of the good guys have been driven mad or murdered.

I considered Takano's talk about the yamainu a clue, though. We see that she is the one representing the organization more than Irie. She makes descisions, and is the one to "make some calls".

Some good points were given in this thread why the organization can't use yamainu to kill Teppei before the festival, but that's nothing conclusive. In my view, they just don't want to kill him yet, in preparation to whatever they're planning for the festival day.

Also they might be intentionally inducing the madness disease in some people. Allowing Teppei to abuse Satoko, and in the past chapters giving the scrapbook to Rena...maybe they even put the needle in Kei's dinner? :P

[MrZombie]

There was no needle in Keiichi's ohagi. It's been mentioned over and over, but the needle was actually hot sauce that his mind then turned into a needle.

[Exilon]

And here I was thinking that the needle was accidently placed there by Rena. At least she's shown in tsumihoroboshi-hen sewing and using a needle, so I thought "what if.."

[MrZombie]

Well they did leave out a rather important line in the ohagi scene in Minagoroshi-hen. After he says "There wouldn't be any needle" he then adds (basically) "You're the type that'd put hot sauce in, never a needle."

[Klashikari]

I think keiichi's memory in Tsumihoroboshi implied there was no needle as well. (not too sure about it. i should try to rehook the game i guess)
weirdly enough, DEEN still has shown the ohagi, with the needle, without the former "vanishing" in season 1 -___-

OTOH, the fact they leave the needle, as it was for Minagoroshi-hen, gives keiichi mure more impact on his trust to Mion.

but again, the lack of explanation is really silly :/

[Exilon]

DEEN probably thought it wasn't that important...

Even with "you're the type who'd put in hot sauce" line, it'd be hard for watchers to figure out everything about it on their own, so that's probably why they left it out. xD

[Kisuke06]

There was no needle in Keiichi's ohagi. It's been mentioned over and over, but the needle was actually hot sauce that his mind then turned into a needle.

Was that really said on the anime? Or on the TIPS? I don't remember, but it's good to know.

[Guido]

Oh my God! First Keiichi, then Shion/Mion, later Rena, and now Rika went psycho.

Rika's psychosis was terrifyingly wonderful for this episode it worked at every level on the visceral and the emotional because she knows what's coming and is getting frustrated that no one is setting up a solution that will save Satoko, and therefore prevent the disaster.


The interesting is the intricacies that the other arcs are interweaving onto the character for this arc.

Rena prevented Mion from interfering to help Keiichi, because it was not coincidence that Keiichi would end up at dissuading Shion from killing Teppei. The memory from when she fought Keiichi back in Tsumihoroboshi was recollected into her mind and put her faith in the outcome.

Shion started to give away the symptoms of the disease, as she succumbed back in Meakashi-ken but Keiichi acted quickly to calm her down though he wasn't left unscathed.

Keiichi too recalled his sin from back to Tatarigoroshi-hen, and that's why from learned memory experience advised Shion not to make a mistake from which she would later have to regret liked his other ego did in the previous world.

The point is that since Tsumihoroboshi-hen Keiichi has been quite casted as the positive force or to say the champion who is igniting a wave of change to alter the outcome.
Rika went to rock bottom and falling to the abyss when she couldn't believe after listening Keiichi to be tied up at hands and giving up the case to save Satoko.

That became the driving force to bring back Keiichi's spirit and made Rika react to his determination with hope.


:topicoff:
People, seriously I have given serious thoughts after the interaction that Rika and Keiichi had sustained since Tsumihoroboshi-hen, and I have made by decision to say that those two make a perfect couple.

Rika X Keiichi forever.:kisskiss:

[Christen]

Was that really said on the anime? Or on the TIPS? I don't remember, but it's good to know.

The pain was caused by tabasco. The red liquid was bean paste IIRC.

[Richard 23]

Someone has to convince Satoko to leave the Hojo house and return to Rika's home. I understand that Satoko feels that her suffering under Teppei's abuse is atonement for Satoshi's disappearance. But that's just wrong.

The theme of trusting and confiding in one's friends is very strong in this series. The resolution lies in Satoko herself, and not in the Child Protective Service (or whatever it's called).

The answer also seems to lie in Rika seeking out the help of her friends and not abandoning herself to her fate.

Trust in your friends. Don't keep your own misery to yourself. Your friends may have answers that you yourself are unable to see. Hauuuu.

Can you believe in it?

[Richard 23]

There was no needle. Keiichi was paranoid at that point. He had also heard an urban legend as a child about a needle being in food. I remember reading that, somewhere.

Besides, even if the girls were playing a prank on Kei-chan they would not put in a needle. He was simply out of his mind.

He also saw a syringe where there was only a marker, the same punishment game as before as I recall.

[Exilon]

What?! It was a marker?!

There's nothing that hints it as being a marker in the anime whatsoever... I thought the syringe was something that Irie gave them to calm Keichii down...

Wow. Anything else that we see through Keichii's mind that really isn't as shown?

[Klashikari]

err..
The anime clearly has shown it was a marker to begin with. In tsumihoroboshi-hen, when Keiichi has his breakdown with the Memories of Onikakushi-hen, while the ohagi didn't change, the syringe gradually became a marker, and Mion says "Get better quickly, alright?"

If you pay attention to what they were "saying" despite Keiichi's delusion, you can tell Mion wanted to cheer him up with a funny Batsu Game, and use the ohagi thing as an excuse to do so. (Since keiichi didn't answer who made which ohagi)
Unfortunately, the "batsu" (so punishment) mention and the shape of the marker completely make him run wild in his imagination, along with rena grip.

The reason why irie and his men removed the marker is probably because it might be troublesome if the police find out Keiichi was mad (since he claims the evidence was a syringe)

as for the "other" delusional visions, it is most likely each "Oyashiro-sama mode" (cat/lizard eyes): all of them are delusion, and their degree depend of Keiichi's state. (some case, like Rena's USODA, it is slightly changed, but some parts like Rena satlking with her cleaver is clearly a distorded vision of the reality)

[MarthX]

What?! It was a marker?!

There's nothing that hints it as being a marker in the anime whatsoever... I thought the syringe was something that Irie gave them to calm Keichii down...

Wow. Anything else that we see through Keichii's mind that really isn't as shown?

It was shown in Tsumihoroboshi, episode 25.

The reason why irie and his men removed the marker is probably because it might be troublesome if the police find out Keiichi was mad (since he claims the evidence was a syringe)

Keiichi rambling about Oyashiro-sama really existing and clawing out his throat is enough to think he's mad. If they just wanted to remove the link between a syringe and Keiichi's madness then why remove the marker? I can't think of a logical explanation, aside from "for the hell of it"

[Exilon]

I have to rewatch tsumihoroboshi-hen.. I get the feeling I missed some important stuff (even though they're small details). Anyway, I watched episode 25 and 26 again (I hadn't noticed that the syringe was actually a marker on the first watch) and noticed something. At the end of episode 26, when Rika's called by Oishii, is that a reference to anything or is it just there with no purpose at all?...

[MezzoDragon]

Someone has to convince Satoko to leave the Hojo house and return to Rika's home. I understand that Satoko feels that her suffering under Teppei's abuse is atonement for Satoshi's disappearance. But that's just wrong.

The theme of trusting and confiding in one's friends is very strong in this series. The resolution lies in Satoko herself, and not in the Child Protective Service (or whatever it's called).

The answer also seems to lie in Rika seeking out the help of her friends and not abandoning herself to her fate.

Trust in your friends. Don't keep your own misery to yourself. Your friends may have answers that you yourself are unable to see. Hauuuu.

Can you believe in it?

So, the entire series is a lame after school special about friendship wrapped within a moe and murder package?

[Klashikari]

Keiichi rambling about Oyashiro-sama really existing and clawing out his throat is enough to think he's mad. If they just wanted to remove the link between a syringe and Keiichi's madness then why remove the marker? I can't think of a logical explanation, aside from "for the hell of it"
well, if the marker is left, the police might deduce Rena and Mion aren't related to the murders at all. (Lots of people are supposed to know about Mion's pranks. if you add the marker, they might think Keiichi was dumb mad, while they tried a prank. If there isn't any marker, Keiichi's madness might be not the sole explanation for the murders)

i believe they left the tape around the clock to emphasis the "conspiracy" of the village, along with the ripped part of Keiichi's letter.

At the end of episode 26, when Rika's called by Oishii, is that a reference to anything or is it just there with no purpose at all?...
No purpose except to give an "open end" thing (as it is okay to loop all the time -__-"), and probably a definitive proof that Rika is reset the time.

So, the entire series is a lame after school special about friendship wrapped within a moe and murder package?
*cough* it is only a theme, it doesn't resolved and it isn't centred like this heh...

[MezzoDragon]

Okay. Sorry for complaining.

[MrZombie]

Well then, I wonder really just how many episodes are left? Since surely we must be near Watanagashi by now. Anyone have an idea on what chapter the anime ended on and how many chapters total there are in Minagoroshi-hen?

[Sterling01]

There is ether 18 or 19 chapters left meaning the last episode ended ether on the 11th or 10th chapter

[Streetor]

Indeed, this TIPS (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=580005&postcount=51) and that one (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=577156&postcount=50) indicate this might be the Sonozaki, while Rina was having fun on her job location. I'm kinda concerned about what was shown on Mion and Keiichi's discussion during Tatarigoroshi-hen.
Ho well, looks like i stated something to hasty anyway.



Well, guess thats what happened to poor Rina this ep.

It does seem like Sonozaki or a branch of them was involved.

[Exilon]

There is ether 18 or 19 chapters left meaning the last episode ended ether on the 11th or 10th chapter

Which means we'll probably see the end of Minagoroshi either this or next week...

[Klashikari]

Which means we'll probably see the end of Minagoroshi either this or next week...

nope. there are 29 chapters in Minagoroshi-hen.
actually, the "chair" scene happened during Chapter 10 (damn... Birth and Death BGm works wonder here)
The "plan" with the child protection agency scene occurs during Chapter 11
The encounter with the Child Agency Attendant, and their "failure" chat happens in chapter 12

as you can see, chapters length aren't exactly constant. There are 17 chapters left then.
So i believe they will take at least 3-4 episodes more for Minagoroshi-hen.
3 is the strict minimum, as i don't see how they will finish Satoko's case, and the batshit later on within only 2 episodes. (Especially that the latter chapters are really dense and stuffed. Sheesh, the last 3 chapters require a whole episode by themselves. that means 14 chapters prior this in only 1 ep. impossible.)

[Richard 23]

So, the entire series is a lame after school special about friendship wrapped within a moe and murder package?

nipa~! I don't think I'd call it lame. And as Klashikari said, that's a theme. It's not all ice cream and lollipops. Your comment made me laugh out loud. Thanks for that!

[raikage]

So, the entire series is a lame after school special about friendship wrapped within a moe and murder package?

That was actually pretty funny.

And if you stopped watching after the first season, then yes it was.

But the second season takes the series in a slightly different direction -- who's killing Rika? Why is she being murdered?

In a few alternate worlds, we've seen that the population of Hinamizawa dies in what is termed a "volcanic gas eruption." Is that really the case? If not, then what's going on?

[Fychan]

Hey! After following this forum a while, I decided to register^^'
This episode was excelent! I'm just sad that I was already spoiled, and that I'm still spoiled...

And since you were talking about K1 delusions, there's something no one talked about and I think I missed something... Why the hell does Teppei revive on tatarigoshi? There's any hint already, and I missed it?

And there's only one thing that annoys me in that episode... K1's hand on 12:50. Urgh! x_x

[Sterling01]

He really did kill Teppei, Satako was just too lost at that point to realize that he was dead.

[MrZombie]

Edit: Darn you Sterling beat me to the punch.

[Fychan]

He really did kill Teppei, Satako was just too lost at that point to realize that he was dead.

Hee... I'm sometimes just too naive to believe in everyone... Though I do remember K1 making sure that he was alive, it might be only his paranoid too...

Thankyou!^^'

[MrZombie]

And he couldn't find him nor the scouter he got rid of the night before, remember?

[QuestionableLogic]

Fychan:

Keiichi really did kill Teppei in Tatarigoroshi-hen.
It probably wasn't his imagination that the corpse was missing.

In Tsumihoroboshi-hen Rena killed Teppei and Rina.
Their bodies were moved by the Sonozakis.

So back to Tatarigoroshi-hen, we can assume Mion knew Keiichi was going to kill Teppei because he was behaving like Satoshi.
So she had the body moved.
Keiichi's friends made up him being at the festival to provide an alibi.

[Quajafrie]

This episode was so ridiculous. The classroom fighting scene was just... awful, so out-of-character (well, this characters in this series act out-of-character so many times that maybe it doesn't count at all).

[Klashikari]

So back to Tatarigoroshi-hen, we can assume Mion knew Keiichi was going to kill Teppei because he was behaving like Satoshi.
So she had the body moved.
Keiichi's friends made up him being at the festival to provide an alibi.
To add a comment about this: Keiichi literaly ask to Mion if she can do something, so Teppei would be the next target of the "curse".
Since Shion (and not mion) received the phone call and knew what happened to satoshi, she warned Mion, who just joined the 2 elements, and deduce Keiichi will bash Teppei to death.

This episode was so lame and ridiculous. The classroom fighting scene was just... awful.
care to at least elaborate?

[Quajafrie]

Ι edited the post, saying that it the whole classroom scene was completely out-of-character, and it's ridiculous for kids to just decide that they're going to kill somebody. And the most ridiculous thing is that Shion hit Keiichi with the chair! Nice friends.

But what do I expect? I think that the mystery in the series is very intriguing, the whole idea of Rika's struggle through unlimited worlds, but the plot progression and the events are many times ridiculous, don't make sense, and are completely unrealistic.

[MarthX]

If you've seen the first season then you should know that there's something causing abnormal behavior. People clawing out their throats, hallucinating, hearing footsteps behind them when no one is there etc.

[NH1976]

Yes, definitely. One should not see Higurashi Kai without having seen the first season. That's where the mistery lies. I remeber when i was wondering if that Oyashirosama's curse was real... sweet time. The anime starts from a very limited scope and unfolds slowly. A delight. :)

[Klashikari]

Ι edited the post, saying that it the whole classroom scene was completely out-of-character, and it's ridiculous for kids to just decide that they're going to kill somebody. And the most ridiculous thing is that Shion hit Keiichi with the chair! Nice friends.

I don't get the "out of character". since when it is? Did you see how shion's behaviour in meakashi-hen? Did you see how Keiichi was brave in tsumihoroboshi?

It is realistic in a sense if you cared to at least see the progression from Onikakushi until now. The plot was built in a way that the interactions and the evolution of the characters are natural and quite logical.

I don't see how you can say it is ridiculous. are you comparing this show with the usual "happy go lucky" shows, where most characters don't have any "flaw" until their past is it? Weirdly enough, in this story, everyone is affected deep down, and doesn't require a specific trigger. they were characterized with flaws and good points.
I don't get how you can have a standard of "kids", especially that you obviously can't stuck characters into a dumb one dimensional aspect.

and the most funny thing is : yes kid can wish the death of people. No, if you study psychology, the murderous intents/impulses are rare, but HARDLY possible to contain for a child, especially in their teenage, since the puberty offer lots of change (rebellous/inverse feelings etc). Heck, are you simply taking reference your life? I don't think it is ever "shocking" to believe that kids would want to kill someone.
People, as long as their have concept of "life and death" CAN decide to kill someone, if the reason behind it justify the act. in NO way, you can claim "you shouldn't considering your age and moral", this is simply stupid.
And this is much worse if you actually know these "kids" are subject of a disease/madness. (and before you might say "i didn't know", the season 1 and Reunion + Yakusamashi-hen were so full of hints it is hardly believable to say that it was OOC and simply a plot hole)

[Echoes]

Ι edited the post, saying that it the whole classroom scene was completely out-of-character, and it's ridiculous for kids to just decide that they're going to kill somebody. And the most ridiculous thing is that Shion hit Keiichi with the chair! Nice friends.

But what do I expect? I think that the mystery in the series is very intriguing, the whole idea of Rika's struggle through unlimited worlds, but the plot progression and the events are many times ridiculous, don't make sense, and are completely unrealistic.

Out of character, right. Wait.. what?!

How is that out of character for any of them? It should come as no surprise to anyone that Shion has the ability to go absolutely mental when given the reason to, killing a guy who's actually tormenting one of her friends is not even arguably out of character for Shion. I don't think I have to comment on Keiichi, everyone knows that he's the kind of guy who'd stand up and help out his friends, even if it puts him in danger, that's the kind of guy he is.

I don't even get how you can say the plot progression doesn't make sense, Higurashi lets us in on more and more pieces of the puzzle, and then lets us put them together. That's part of what makes Higurashi so interesting.

As for unrealistic, you'll have to elaborate.

[BakaOnna]

This episode was so ridiculous. The classroom fighting scene was just... awful, so out-of-character (well, this characters in this series act out-of-character so many times that maybe it doesn't count at all).

Ι edited the post, saying that it the whole classroom scene was completely out-of-character, and it's ridiculous for kids to just decide that they're going to kill somebody. And the most ridiculous thing is that Shion hit Keiichi with the chair! Nice friends.

But what do I expect? I think that the mystery in the series is very intriguing, the whole idea of Rika's struggle through unlimited worlds, but the plot progression and the events are many times ridiculous, don't make sense, and are completely unrealistic.

Why do I get the feeling that you didn't watch the first season... or you did, but did not bother to play close attention to the development in each arc. Well... everything I had to say has already been said. To say that the plot progression makes no sense is ridiculous since everything does make sense if you think about how everything in the other arcs are connected and related. Kai is supposed to make sense sense the events that have happened in season 1.

[Sterling01]

This episode was so ridiculous. The classroom fighting scene was just... awful, so out-of-character (well, this characters in this series act out-of-character so many times that maybe it doesn't count at all).
Just for curiosity's sake what do consider in character for them

[Eric the Grey]

:topicoff:
People, seriously I have given serious thoughts after the interaction that Rika and Keiichi had sustained since Tsumihoroboshi-hen, and I have made by decision to say that those two make a perfect couple.

Rika X Keiichi forever.:kisskiss:


Naw... Rika is too old for him. :rolleyes: :D



:cool: Eric the Grey

[Quajafrie]

I had written a big post but browser failed, so I'll summarize: Yes, I've seen the first season and I've played the translated chapters of the game. And I love the mystery of the show so much. But the way the characters are fleshed out mostly fail. Out-of-character wasn't an accurate phrase, I admit, but unrealistic is okay. It's very convenient for the creator to put the label 'disease' and have the characters act random. To me it's kind of idiot plotting. And no, Minagoroshi-hen is not the best example of this, in fact it's probably the best answer arc so far. Meakashi-hen was like worse than... anything, actually, it was a complete disaster, I don't want to remember it existed.

[NH1976]

Interesting , Quajafrie. what did you dislike in the Meakashi-hen plot ? Not speaking about the dumb emo faces, of course. I actually liked this arc. It is by comparing it to the game ?

I didn't play the game, i dunno if the hinamizawa club translated all the arcs. I don't speak japanese.But what i read about Kei's monologues and scenes dumbed down give me even more desire to play that game. :)

[Quajafrie]

No, I haven't played Meakashi-hen (I only played the first chapters of Minagoroshi-hen until Kai was announced, then I stopped caring, actually), but was there anything good about it? Girls killing each other, stupid behaviours ('SATOSHI-KUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'), disastrous and messed-up plot (at least in the anime) and lots of unnecessary gore.

[Klashikari]

If you didn't liked Meakashi-hen, i don't get why you didn't get annoyed either by Onikakushi and Tsumihoroboshi, having the same "KILLER LOLIS".
For crying out loud, did you pay attention to the plot progression and the explanations offered in all answers arc, especially Yakusamashi?

it is damn obvious there is something wrong, and it is NOT relevant wherever they are kids or adults. Disastrous? messed up? on which reference? What are you using to compare?
Can you at least give EXAMPLES of things which should have happened instead with the same pattern and situations?

You should actually inform yourself how human mind can be messed up, and how various psychotic behaviour can happen, depending of some triggers and various points.
And the chapter is far from focusing only on killing.

i don't see your point at all.

[Echoes]

Messed up plot? "Unnecessary" gore?

I find this hard to justify, as Higurashi has one of the most intricate plots I've ever seen. There has never been an enormous amount of gore, which makes it all the more interesting when they do show it.

Again, if you don't like something, at least explain why, saying "it sucks" doesn't really do anything except create a negative atmosphere. :)

[Sterling01]

The thing about Meakashi-hen that kinda made me squeal a bit was the Nail removing (Had that happen to me. Hurts alot!!)

Meakashi-hen was very gory, but none of it was unnecessary it was used to show how unstable Shion had become. (the same with the gore in all the other chapters) Which made her monologue right before her death all the more meaningful.

Also for the people who read ether the game or manga, who wouldn't say that the Doll part at the end was sad.

Oh Quajafrie, I'm really surprised you're still watching the series with this chapter being called "Massacre Chapter"

[Fychan]

No, I haven't played Meakashi-hen (I only played the first chapters of Minagoroshi-hen until Kai was announced, then I stopped caring, actually), but was there anything good about it? Girls killing each other, stupid behaviours ('SATOSHI-KUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'), disastrous and messed-up plot (at least in the anime) and lots of unnecessary gore.

Huh, actually, I know what you mean... It does seems pretty idiotic for someone to kill the whole village only because love...

But it's deeper from that. I don't really blame you from thinking so; it's your opnion, but maybe if you read the TIPS from meakashi-hen, you'll change your mind.

Shion wasn't only revenging Satoshi-kun. She had this feeling that she was... How can I say... "Getting haunted"? That someone was following her, that someone would kill her because she entered the shrine... Along with the ideas of her beloved suffering, she snaped out of her mind. She got crazy and paranoic...
I think it's hard to explain^^' I think it's better to understand when you read her monologues.

[Quajafrie]

I'm talking about the anime. Not the TIPS, not the game, not the manga. About the anime!

[kj1980]

I'm talking about the anime. Not the TIPS, not the game, not the manga. About the anime!

The anime wasn't complete without the TIPS; that's why we translated them. I would say the time we spent translating these paid off as it non-game players the closest experience to playing the game.

[Quajafrie]

Yes, but the TIPS weren't part of the anime! They were part of the game. So, it isn't necessary for the anime to have a storyline that makes sense just because there is the game and the tips? I'm judging the anime, not the game, and the anime's plot was messed-up.

[Klashikari]

Yes, but the TIPS weren't part of the anime! They were part of the game. So, it isn't necessary for the anime to have a storyline that makes sense just because there is the game and the tips? I'm judging the anime, not the game, and the anime's plot was messed-up.
Errr, maybe fychan mentioned the TIPS, but even without them, it is clearly enough.
You would say "OMG onikakushi-hen doesn't make sense", while you can get the answers with later arcs?
Dang... it is so obvious with only the anime that, with Onikakushi, Watanagashi/Meakashi, Tatarigoroshi and Tsumihoroboshi, there is something about madness, and this is much more obvious with kai, as we can claim it is a disease.
Even without the second season, there are obvious hints and facts that there are many delusional scenes, clearly showing that some people go crazy.
Shion's distorted and meo faces were enough to indicate how crazy she was, and not exactly as a "natural behaviour".
Let's not talk about the fact that they are subject of this, only because of 2-3 common factors. (Ooishi, Takano's scrapbook (except keiichi), etc)

where is the messed part? You must put a logical structure when a character goes mad? I don't get the issue.
If you happen to twist strong love wiht madness and paranoia, you can easely get this type of result. Heck, the spiral of madness is spectacular, but realist.

[Davidj]

Yes, but the TIPS weren't part of the anime! They were part of the game. So, it isn't necessary for the anime to have a storyline that makes sense just because there is the game and the tips? I'm judging the anime, not the game, and the anime's plot was messed-up.

I disagree about the tips. They are unnecessary. The anime stands on its own. But complaining about the characters being prone to violent psychosis is like complaining about Star Trek's depiction of interstellar travel flying in face of science. It's the central science fiction premise that drives the series. Without it, there's no story to tell except a cute harem comedy about Keiichi choosing between Mion, Shion and Rena. But this is a horror/mystery story, not a harem comedy and it isn't out of character for Shion, someone who nearly murdered her sister last year, to decide to go right out and murder Teppei.

[Sterling01]

I wonder what would happen K1 did choose one of them