School Days - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Raykun]

sigh this show went down the drain to me all these sad scenes wish some other male comes in and saves them from mokoto and his friend stupidness...

[ZenithTheOne]

Makoto really deserves a beating from koto or some kind of humiliation scene that would be the perfect ending for this anime imo

Castration would be best.

[Zeira]

I have neglected Kotonoha's impending danger because I've been caught up in keeping hatred for Makoto burning as bright as ever.

How shameful.

Kotonoha is going though all the hardships imaginable, I feel very sorry for her. She hasn't got anything positive to turn to at a time like this.

I feel bad for girls like koto. They make me think of the girls stuck in abusive relationships, that dont do anything about the abuse.

She maybe be partially at fault for her situation, since she let it happen.. but it is still not ok that all this stuff happens to her..

Seeing her... just hurts.

[ACE2003]

Wow!! It seem that Makoto hate is at an all time high here.:) I'm really looking forward to Katsura putting her foot down next episode, that is, if she really likes him. It's getting to a point to whereas she's losing him to Sekai as she's a better position than Katsura right now. As for Makoto....I'm expecting him to keep on pimpin. Get it while ya can brother!!:D

[Xellos-_^]

He didnt rape her. She has yet to protest or otherwise indicate she's not interested. Although its probably because she's in a sort of catotonic state and thus, unresponsive.

I am not sure what your age is or which country you are in.

Here in the US, this would be consider Rape. Rape in the US does need someone to say NO. If the person is incapicited in anyway and not able to give consent then it is consider Rape.

Taisuke would be tried and convicted as a Adult. Lock in Junville Hall untill 18 then transfer to adult prison where he can learn about the meaning of the word rape form cellmate bubba.

After being release form prison (if he survive his sentence, sex offenders are on the bottom rung of prison, lots of accidents happen to them) he will put on Sex offender Registration List. Basically he can't even get a job as a street sweeper. And no one would rent a room to him either so he will be living under a bridge for the rest of his life.

[Xellos-_^]

As much as I said in the beginning of the show i want to see a bad ending. A good ending (with good writing) at least for Koto would fine with me at this point. She really does deserve better.

Makoto could salvage this and get a nice ending for himself and one of the girls but Taisuke needs to go to Jail.

[Forbin]

After rewatching the episode over and over again. I seriously have no idea how the plot will go on. I mean makoto's uncertainty to even say that Sekai is his gf...

Also the fact that at the end it looks like Koto is actually going to get raped, Seeing as how her ribbon falls.


Ummm...
Going to?
She did, don't you get the whole red circle being broken thing?

[Xellos-_^]

One other interesting aspect of school days is Male sidekick. Usually they are better character then main male. This is the first one I remeber watching where the Male sidekick is rated even worse then the Main male character.

[felix]

Besides being truly stupid, he's not that bad. You shouldn't base your opinion on stupid ratings.
As for Makoto, I'll settle for any sort of redemption as long as it means he'll be in a world of pain.

[Skyfall]

Besides being truly stupid, he's not that bad. You shouldn't base your opinion on stupid ratings.
As for Makoto, I'll settle for any sort of redemption as long as it means he'll be in a world of pain.

Taisuke = not that bad ? Seems like you dislike Makoto a lot more ... when was the last time Makoto raped anyone ? ;)

Not saying either of them are decent by any means, but i find Taisuke and 'not that bad' in one sentence hard to swallow :)

[felix]

Huh!? Didn't he just hug her? I'm a little drunk and tired... brainz 3 seconds behind. :heh:

[Xellos-_^]

Besides being truly stupid, he's not that bad. You shouldn't base your opinion on stupid ratings.
As for Makoto, I'll settle for any sort of redemption as long as it means he'll be in a world of pain.


My opinion is not base on a rating it is base on a simple fact.

Makoto - Immautre, stupid, insensetive, cheater and jerk

Taisuke - RAPIST

In Makoto's case he can grow up and learn to be more sensetive which would cure cheater and jerk.

Taisuke otoh, once a rapist always a rapist.

[Echoes]

Rape is really unforgivable, it's not something you can easily atone for, or make go away, no matter what you do. If Taisuke truly did that, even I will agree that he's even more of a bastard than Makoto.

That was really sudden, though. You confess to the girl you like, and then you just jump her and rape her. It's something even the most demented among us would think twice before doing.

[HashiriyaR32]

Don't the red ripples indicate that the body of liquid is a pool of BLOOD!!?!?

[Sinestra]

Besides being truly stupid, he's not that bad. You shouldn't base your opinion on stupid ratings.
As for Makoto, I'll settle for any sort of redemption as long as it means he'll be in a world of pain.

Wow explain that one... How is being a jerk, a cheat and all around dumb ass worse than raping someone? Ratings have nothing to do it the lesser of 2 evils a dumbass or a rapist. Makoto may have done a lot of bad things but he didnt commit a crime. As i do not feel like redoing my post i will just say that Makoto would not go to jail for the things he has done Taisuke would

[AvatarST]

Posting just to agree with all the Taisuke comments, and adding "I want him in prison or dead".

[Akabane_Kun]

Mental agression is allways bether than fisic agression

[Klashikari]

huh... i don't agree.
Physical agression can be healed, as long as the pain and the aftermath (scars etc) are okay.
Mental damage can be much more dangerous, especially if it hits directly the psyche of the person.

In specific extent, the mental damage is more cunning, as it is harder to prevent, and it can completely transform anyone to a WRECK.
Trauma can be much more dangerous that simple bruises, scars, wounds etc.

[Xellos-_^]

huh... i don't agree.
Physical agression can be healed, as long as the pain and the aftermath (scars etc) are okay.
Mental damage can be much more dangerous, especially if it hits directly the psyche of the person.

In specific extent, the mental damage is more cunning, as it is harder to prevent, and it can completely transform anyone to a WRECK.
Trauma can be much more dangerous that simple bruises, scars, wounds etc.

In the event of Rape it is both physical and MENTAL abuse.

99% of people get over broken hearts.

99% of people don't get over Rapes that easily.

[Klashikari]

Of course, Rape is a physical abuse in its nature.
but much like you said, it is mainly harmful as a mental blow.

that's why I argued the fact "Mental > physical" in kind of damage.
I'm not a girl, so i won't be able to tell how painful the intercourse is for them, either "normal" or "rape" (and i wish that not a lot can say about the later), but i believe the rape itself leave not a lot of physical damage.

it is purely mental damage and it IS heavy.

[AvatarST]

In any case, Koto recovering (though I doubt that will happen) is more important than Taisuke being punished, but man do I hate the scumbag for what he's done...

[Neki Ecko]

In any case, Koto recovering (though I doubt that will happen) is more important than Taisuke being punished, but man do I hate the scumbag for what he's done...

But the way everything is going right now, if she see those pictures of Otome and Makoto doing it, she wont recovering at all. Her Mental State will shatter like glass hitting on the concrete and it will never recover at all.:(

[Darklightz]

Wow explain that one... How is being a jerk, a cheat and all around dumb ass worse than raping someone? Ratings have nothing to do it the lesser of 2 evils a dumbass or a rapist. Makoto may have done a lot of bad things but he didnt commit a crime. As i do not feel like redoing my post i will just say that Makoto would not go to jail for the things he has done Taisuke would

That's only because every girl so far wants to bang Makoto. Do you think he would seriously stop himself if Sekai said no(as she did say many times,no matter how feebly)? I've always said that Sekai is his willing victim.

Also in Taisuke's defense,we don't know much of what happened beyond eerie imagery. While there's little doubt that they did do the deed, maybe Kotonoha did it willingly? the more I think about it, the more I realize that Kotonoha would feel desperately lonely and would crave love and company right now. Yes it's still wrong of Taisuke to take advantage but odds are he doesn't even realize that, after seeing Makoto hang out with Sekai so long,as far as Taisuke knows maybe Makoto and Kotonoha never really had any real relationship. On the other hand he's loved her since the beginning and unlike Makoto he genuinely cares for her.

All that to say that Makoto is still the worse guy around.

[AvatarST]

We'd see next episode I guess. If it was consensual then he's still bad for taking advantage of her IMO, but that's more debatable. If it wasn't, which is what I think is the case, he's a rapist and pretty much undefendable. And rape puts him well below Makoto.

[Darklightz]

If someone wants to die,does killing that person make you any less a murderer?

Taisuke will need to do truly evil thing to become worse than Makoto. It also depends on what he does after. If he realizes what he's done to Kotonoha and tries to make it up to her or comfort her than that makes him better than Makoto ever will

[AvatarST]

No, it's more understandable if it was consensual, even if I think it's bad to take advantage of someone who isn't in the right state of mind and he should instead try to comfort her. But I really don't think it was.

But if he raped her, as in, if she wasn't in the right state of mind to answer and give consent, he shouldn't make it up to her or comfort her; he should go to jail when he's 18.

I hate Makoto, but he'll always be above a rapist for me.

[Sinestra]

That's only because every girl so far wants to bang Makoto. Do you think he would seriously stop himself if Sekai said no(as she did say many times,no matter how feebly)? I've always said that Sekai is his willing victim.

Also in Taisuke's defense,we don't know much of what happened beyond eerie imagery. While there's little doubt that they did do the deed, maybe Kotonoha did it willingly? the more I think about it, the more I realize that Kotonoha would feel desperately lonely and would crave love and company right now. Yes it's still wrong of Taisuke to take advantage but odds are he doesn't even realize that, after seeing Makoto hang out with Sekai so long,as far as Taisuke knows maybe Makoto and Kotonoha never really had any real relationship. On the other hand he's loved her since the beginning and unlike Makoto he genuinely cares for her.

All that to say that Makoto is still the worse guy around.

I see your reasoning and i said this before what proof is there that Taisuke actually loves her. Just because he said it? you have to know things about a person to say you love them. Taisuke has spoke to Koto like 3 times since the series started. He was basically doing the same thing Itou was at first just looking at her from afar. He knows nothing about her there is no way i will bring my self to believe that he loves her for real. I love you so i took advantage of you that doesnt flow in my book. He has to actually display credible evidence that he actually loves her. Which wont get till we see how they interact with each other in episode 10. Im sorry but that is not love he could have said I love then asked her opinion on the matter or tried to comfort her after telling her Makoto betrayed her. Instead he said i love you grab next thing we see is her ribbon falling. He didnt even wait to see what she would say back to him.

[Darklightz]

Ok maybe "love" is a bit strong, but he does like her. He often stops to talk to her and such. Makoto never did that kind of thing.

And yeah, in the School Days world, spontaneous sex seems very common lol

All I"m saying is give Taisuke a break,there's still a lot of things we haven't seen yet

[AvatarST]

I'll take back all I said if it's proven that he didn't rape her. If not, though, then I'll want him dead or in jail.

[faustianideals]

Ok maybe "love" is a bit strong, but he does like her. He often stops to talk to her and such. Makoto never did that kind of thing.

And yeah, in the School Days world, spontaneous sex seems very common lol

All I"m saying is give Taisuke a break,there's still a lot of things we haven't seen yet
This anime actually shocked me with the sexual content of it. The blood and guts of other shows don't phase me, but as to how random the sex was, god, very surprising, and slightly interesting, although not in any practical sense.

[Akabane_Kun]

He doesnt love her he loves her body thats all hes a perv rapist,if he really loved her he would embrace her and say to her to forget makoto and stuff but no he just starts yelling that makoto isnt is boyfriend anymore and that he doesnt care about her...he didnt even know how mutch important does words where to koto what a bastard.

[faustianideals]

He doesnt love her he loves her body thats all hes a perv rapist,if he really loved her he would embrace her and say to her to forget makoto and stuff but no he just starts yelling that makoto isnt is boyfriend anymore and that he doesnt care about her...he didnt even know how mutch important does words where to koto what a bastard.

What do you know about love? You're 18, what you mean is he isn't a romantic. Not everyone is going to make love on a bed of roses. Seriously, what the hell are you expecting? He's a teenage boy too, what do you think is on his mind? Sex, sex, and more sex.

[AvatarST]

Sex, sex and sex before even hearing an answer from the girl when she's not in a right state of mind to even answer?

That sounds like a dumb**** -at best- to me, not a teenager.

[Darkside]

I don't see what all the hate on Taisuke is about. Sure he didn't do such a nice thing to Kotonoha, but what he did is no different than getting some chick drunk or drugged up and nailing her at a party or something. Stuff like that happens all the time in real life. It's not like they are going to send the army out to kill his ass now from something like this. It's funny seeing people's reactions to what he did to Kotonoha compared to when it happens when the genders are reveresed like when Fllay pretty much did the same thing to Kira, early in Gundam Seed. She didn't get bashed this hard lol.

[AvatarST]

I don't see what all the hate on Taisuke is about. Sure he didn't do such a nice thing to Kotonoha, but what he did is no different than getting some chick drunk or drugged up and nailing her at a party or something. Stuff like that happens all the time in real life.

I really really dislike that, but apart from personal motives...

Without consent it's considered rape. It's not like just because it happens IRL it's okay, and the situation here is somewhat different anyway. Like I said, I'll gladly eat my words if it's proven that it wasn't rape in the next episode, but for now he's a criminal and one of the worst in my eyes.

[l3LooDLusT]

Why is evryone here assuming that koto got raped by taisuke coz of the symbolism on the last scene?. Chill ppol assuming stuff without proof is the same thing as being a dumbass who cant think straight like makoto we just need to wait for the next episode till they show wat really happened then we can kill taisuke if he really did rape her or maybe he just grab her and then hug her then the ribbon fell to comfort her coz he likes her? maybe. as for the red water drip on the last scene maybe its a foreshadowing that some1 will end up bloody dead?.

[AvatarST]

Like I said...I'll gladly eat all my words if that's the case. Hell, call me dumb next week if I'm wrong, I'd have no problems with that. :heh:

[Zeira]

He doesnt love her he loves her body thats all hes a perv rapist,if he really loved her he would embrace her and say to her to forget makoto and stuff but no he just starts yelling that makoto isnt is boyfriend anymore and that he doesnt care about her...he didnt even know how mutch important does words where to koto what a bastard.


Other then the rape that he did, or might have done. I have no problem how he handled the siutuation. He has been trying to talk to her. He has hinted to her a few times that Makoto isn't being true to her. Koto was being beyond dense, and living in her own world.

HIming yelling at her, telling her that Makoto betrayed her is what she needed to hear. If it breaks her to be forced to hear the truth, that isn't taisuki's fault.

Just to reiterate my opinion.
if he raped her, he is completely wrong. But like some of the other people on here. I can still put Makoto's actions, in effect to what they have casued to happen to koto, on par with the mental impact of her being raped. It is funny, cause we can say this and that. but in game. in koto's mind.. she will probably still be more affected by everything revolving around Makoto, rather then Taisuke.

[CJL13]

Why is evryone here assuming that koto got raped by taisuke coz of the symbolism on the last scene?. Chill ppol assuming stuff without proof is the same thing as being a dumbass who cant think straight like makoto we just need to wait for the next episode till they show wat really happened then we can kill taisuke if he really did rape her or maybe he just grab her and then hug her then the ribbon fell to comfort her coz he likes her? maybe. as for the red water drip on the last scene maybe its a foreshadowing that some1 will end up bloody dead?.

I'm kinda split up between rape, or her wanting Makoto dead. I'm leaning toward rape, but I guess we won't know till the next episode.

[AvatarST]

That's true, but I'm of the opinion that she can get over what happened with Makoto by getting a boyfriend with an actual brain, who cares for her and who she can care for. So it's not THAT hard for that to happen, realistically (though it probably won't in the anime).

On the other hand, getting over rape is a lot harder than that...

[Einrei]

Hope this won't lead to rape..but judging to Koto's face expression she's givin up?

But still waiting for the next episode

[Echoes]

I don't see what all the hate on Taisuke is about. Sure he didn't do such a nice thing to Kotonoha, but what he did is no different than getting some chick drunk or drugged up and nailing her at a party or something. Stuff like that happens all the time in real life. It's not like they are going to send the army out to kill his ass now from something like this. It's funny seeing people's reactions to what he did to Kotonoha compared to when it happens when the genders are reveresed like when Fllay pretty much did the same thing to Kira, early in Gundam Seed. She didn't get bashed this hard lol.

Rape happens all the time in real life. Murder happens all the time in real life.
Does that makes those things okay? The answer is obvious.

You don't see why people hate a rapist? Surely there's something I must've overlooked, since this doesn't really add up.

[Zeira]

I dont know if it is possible for koto or not. But yeah,irl, it is completly possible for somone to be devasted by actions like Makoto's, and then later be able to heal by moving on and finding someon else. I dont disagree with that.

I was trying to defend the minority. Though majority of people in Koto's position, in regards to makoto, could be healed by moving on and finding someon else. However, there is a minority of people just like Koto, or probably even worse then her, that just can't. They subject themselves to these situation, they can't get out, and it breaks them down. I defneded that possibility cause I have seen it in real life. And for those people.. they act as if it was rape.. or something like that.. when in reality it was nothing physical.. just more like a mental rape.

And.. it isn't just cheating for makoto, something about it isn't the run of the mill cheating. It is how he handles everythng, how he strings her along, and ignores her. Stuff like just staring at her when she falls. It is how he handles these situations, with him cheating that causes her... down fall.

Think of those woman caught in verbally abusive relationships, I mean those bad ones you see on Maury (>.>)where it is just mentally hurting them. But they don't leave, they can't leave, they love that person, or think they do. They stay and they let it happen. It doens't make it okay, or any bit less repulsive, or less damaging, just because there isn't a physical act to accompany it.

I will submit to saying that Rape is worse, because the victim is being violated.. it is alot ot deal with. But I am no way going to say that it is sooooooo much worse that Makoto's wrong can be overlooked, especially since I know for some people, that stuff like this can be just as mentally damaging.. even if it is a smaller minority.

[Einrei]

It's almost 90% that the rape scene will happen?

[l3LooDLusT]

I dont know if it is possible for koto or not. But yeah,irl, it is completly possible for somone to be devasted by actions like Makoto's, and then later be able to heal by moving on and finding someon else. I dont disagree with that.

this is why i think theres still a happy ending on this anime makoto will end up with sekia, then koto with taisuke, otome realize theres no chance for ehr to win and setsuna goes to france.

[Blue_Mercy]

this is why i think theres still a happy ending on this anime makoto will end up with sekia, then koto with taisuke, otome realize theres no chance for ehr to win and setsuna goes to france.

Even if there was a chance for a happy ending, the only one that deserves a good ending is Kotohona right now.(but it's looking like the saddest ending is in her future) I know I sure as hell don't want Makoto or Taisuke to come out of this without experiencing severe pain. While Otome was just a side character to spark conflict, she helps us realizes that Makoto doesn't care what girl it is that offers him sex he'll take it.(even though we already knew this)

[Neki Ecko]

Even if there was a chance for a happy ending, the only one that deserves a good ending is Kotohona right now.(but it's looking like the saddest ending is in her future) I know I sure as hell don't want Makoto or Taisuke to come out of this without experiencing severe pain. While Otome was just a side character to spark conflict, she helps us realizes that Makoto doesn't care what girl it is that offers him sex he'll take it.(even though we already knew this)

Well, happy ending for this show right now is slim to none, even know that Koto should deserve a happy ending, it is not going to happen if Otome and her crew should her those pictures. Plus if Taisuke did rape her and certain person found out, guess what is going to happen, Makoto score card will be +1. I love this series but I hope that hell have a special place for Mokoto and Taisuke because they need to go there.

[CJL13]

Well, happy ending for this show right now is slim to none, even know that Koto should deserve a happy ending, it is not going to happen if Otome and her crew should her those pictures. Plus if Taisuke did rape her and certain person found out, guess what is going to happen, Makoto score card will be +1. I love this series but I hope that hell have a special place for Mokoto and Taisuke because they need to go there.
Yeah I highly doubt things will become 100% fine, someone ain't gonna take it (Koto getting crap, Sekai being hit on, etc.) it's just a matter of waiting for it to happen

[mikesince83]

Alright let me preface this by saying I just recently (between last night and tonight) watched all 9 episodes of School Days after noticing it was listed as being particularly popular for current series airing in Japan.

Now I realize the anime is based of a game/manga (neither of which I know much about) that has multiple endings and girls available, but it's arrived at the point where I'm losing interest due to the rapidly growing Makoto fan club.

The interaction between Makoto Sekai and Kotonoha in the first few episodes is fantastic, and it's what hooked me and pulled me in. What is it about this that is attractive? The fact that the relationship issues are plausible. But with Makoto's actions in episode 9 any connection with reality is rapidly fading.

[Zeira]

I finally figured out what was bothering me about the tasiuke rape thing. I guess I dont see the world as black and white. For me there are many shades of gray. Everyone is different, so many personalities, and so many different ways that one situation can play out.

I know I agree that if he raped her, he is wrong plain and simple, and it is not to be taken lightly.

However, at the same time I dont think of him as that guy that pulled some girl in to a dark alley and raped her, or the guy that misciously slipped a date rape drug in to a girls drink and raped her. It is like, these type of people/situations.. it is schemed, planned, or maliscious. Then the rapist leaves the girl there like a peice of meat, I mean of course they aren't going to stick around.. they dont care about the girl. They raped her, got what they wanted, then left.

but for Taisuke, though still a rapist and a complete idiot..I dont put him on that extreme level,referring to the examples I gave above. I dont think he is thinking. "Yeah ima have sex with her, (rape her) then be done with her.. this is all I am after." or "this is her weak point, she is stunned, let me take this opportunity and get some sex." I think he probably fully expects to continue talking to her, and feels he may like her.

I guess... in the end, I dont disagree with the act itself being wrong. He raped her.. he is wrong. However, I dont think his mentality behind it was intentional. He is still fully responsible for his actions, I just dont think the thought process behind those actions were "hey lets rape/take advantage of koto."

If he wasn't trying to intentionally rape her.. he could change.

IF, and that is a big if, I am right.. If he didn't have the maliscious intent in mind to try to rape this girl... then it is also possible that when reality hits him ( that he wasn't making love to koto, or even having basic sex, but raping her.) he could be horrfied.. it is posible he could realize he made a mistake.. and not to make it again. Then again.. he could just not care.. it really does depends on what is going on in that head of his... and how he reacts after this.

hope that made sense..

[Infinion]

Why is evryone here assuming that koto got raped by taisuke coz of the symbolism on the last scene?. Chill ppol assuming stuff without proof is the same thing as being a dumbass who cant think straight like makoto we just need to wait for the next episode till they show wat really happened then we can kill taisuke if he really did rape her or maybe he just grab her and then hug her then the ribbon fell to comfort her coz he likes her? maybe. as for the red water drip on the last scene maybe its a foreshadowing that some1 will end up bloody dead?.

Actually the symbolism isn't just put in there for sh1ts and giggles, the representation of the ribbon falling and creating ripples of blood means that she lost her virginity. Also how would there be two completely different meanings to that? The outcome is obvious. on top of that how do you explain Kotonoha in a 'dark room' in the end, twitching and saying Makoto's name in her head? In my opinion she is thinking that she wanted her virginity to be taken from Makoto and not from Taisuke

What do you know about love? You're 18, what you mean is he isn't a romantic. Not everyone is going to make love on a bed of roses. Seriously, what the hell are you expecting? He's a teenage boy too, what do you think is on his mind? Sex, sex, and more sex.

In Akabane_Kun's defense, it's pretty easy to understand the differences between love and lustful intentions, there isn't a certain age that you become aware of the two differences, it's common sense. And although teenage boys think about sex alot, its not like it's the only thing going through their head. Also Taisuke has no right to have sex with Kotonoha, he barely knows her and she has no feelings for him. And for those who think that it might be consensual when the two had sex, why was she only thinking of Makoto? It's more of a "I'm getting raped this will shatter me" thing than a "Your rape comforts me" thing

[Vestus]

I finally figured out what was bothering me about the tasiuke rape thing. I guess I dont see the world as black and white. For me there are many shades of gray. Everyone is different, so many personalities, and so many different ways that one situation can play out.

I know I agree that if he raped her, he is wrong plain and simple, and it is not to be taken lightly.

However, at the same time I dont think of him as that guy that pulled some girl in to a dark alley and raped her, or the guy that misciously slipped a date rape drug in to a girls drink and raped her. It is like, these type of people/situations.. it is schemed, planned, or maliscious. Then the rapist leaves the girl there like a peice of meat, I mean of course they aren't going to stick around.. they dont care about the girl. They raped her, got what they wanted, then left.

but for Taisuke, though still a rapist and a complete idiot..I dont put him on that extreme level,referring to the examples I gave above. I dont think he is thinking. "Yeah ima have sex with her, (rape her) then be done with her.. this is all I am after." or "this is her weak point, she is stunned, let me take this opportunity and get some sex." I think he probably fully expects to continue talking to her, and feels he may like her.

I guess... in the end, I dont disagree with the act itself being wrong. He raped her.. he is wrong. However, I dont think his mentality behind it was intentional. He is still fully responsible for his actions, I just dont think the thought process behind those actions were "hey lets rape/take advantage of koto."

If he wasn't trying to intentionally rape her.. he could change.

IF, and that is a big if, I am right.. If he didn't have the maliscious intent in mind to try to rape this girl... then it is also possible that when reality hits him ( that he wasn't making love to koto, or even having basic sex, but raping her.) he could be horrfied.. it is posible he could realize he made a mistake.. and not to make it again. Then again.. he could just not care.. it really does depends on what is going on in that head of his... and how he reacts after this.

hope that made sense..

If Taisuke raped Kotonoha and did it without any malicious intent to rape her. Then, Taisuke must be really effed-up in the mind. Because, when you think about it, what kind of thought-process you would have to possess to think this is rational:

[I "love" her] + [I told her I "love" her] + [I am hugging her] + [she isn't saying anything] = [I am allowed to have sex with her]

IMO, a person with a thought-process that would allow this to be rational possess a lower level of intelligence than of Makoto.

[Infinion]

If Taisuke raped Kotonoha and did it without any malicious intent to rape her. Then, Taisuke must be really effed-up in the mind. Because, when you think about it, what kind of thought-process you would have to possess to think this is rational:

[I "love" her] + [I told her I "love" her] + [I am hugging her] + [she isn't saying anything] = [I am allowed to have sex with her]

IMO, a person with a thought-process that would allow this to be rational possess a lower level of intelligence than of Makoto.

Now I see why Makoto and Taisuke are such good friends

[Klashikari]

If Taisuke raped Kotonoha and did it without any malicious intent to rape her. Then, Taisuke must be really effed-up in the mind. Because, when you think about it, what kind of thought-process you would have to possess to think this is rational:

[I "love" her] + [I told her I "love" her] + [I am hugging her] + [she isn't saying anything] = [I am allowed to have sex with her]

IMO, a person with a thought-process that would allow this to be rational possess a lower level of intelligence than of Makoto.

Though i'm not questioning Taisuke's "common sense", which is kinda similar to Makoto's. you must not forget that we don't have a specific "time estimation" of the scene. We don't know what really happened (we know some details, but not all of them), nor the sequence and the execution either.

But indeed, the mood is really out of the whack to believe "i can do it with her". But again, on the other hand, subjective details might take into account.
That said, you can do idiot and irrational decisions and actions, even without any malicious intent. Humans are quite...whimsical and unpredictable (or dumb...), ne? >_>

That said, i believe Zeira pretty much nailed the point about the shade of grey.

[Darkside]

I don't know, I think going and calling him a rapist is a bit strong. Usually rape is violent and forced. Although she isn't in the proper state of mind right now, we don't really know what she's thinking. If she doesn't resist at all, I'd say its all good. The surprise sex term seems more fitting.

[Infinion]

I don't know, I think going and calling him a rapist is a bit strong. Usually rape is violent and forced. Although she isn't in the proper state of mind right now, we don't really know what she's thinking. If she doesn't resist at all, I'd say its all good. The surprise sex term seems more fitting.


Rape isn't just violent and forced sex, if it isnt consensual then it's rape. And yes we do know what she's thinking, she's thinking about makoto and because of her low self-confidence (if she had any its completely gone now) she isn't putting up a fight. do you really think she wants to have sex with him?

[Darkside]

Sometimes when people are in that mental condition they actually go looking for sex

[Infinion]

that may be true but not in this particular situation

[felix]

Makoto - Immautre, stupid, insensetive, cheater and jerk

Taisuke - RAPIST
In Makoto's case he can grow up and learn to be more sensetive which would cure cheater and jerk.

Taisuke otoh, once a rapist always a rapist.

I rewatched it a couple of time. There's no explicit indication of rape there.
Or at least there's no clue that would have rape as the first option on the list.

But I think I know where you're all coming from with this.
In the game it was clearly rape wasn't it?

[Skyfall]

I don't see what all the hate on Taisuke is about. Sure he didn't do such a nice thing to Kotonoha, but what he did is no different than getting some chick drunk or drugged up and nailing her at a party or something. Stuff like that happens all the time in real life. It's not like they are going to send the army out to kill his ass now from something like this. It's funny seeing people's reactions to what he did to Kotonoha compared to when it happens when the genders are reveresed like when Fllay pretty much did the same thing to Kira, early in Gundam Seed. She didn't get bashed this hard lol.

And believe it or not, that is considered as rape as well. If the girl goes to police later and fills in a report that someone had his way with her while she was drunk, that person is going to get charged with rape. Simple as that. Consent given when the 'victim' is mentally incapacitated due to drugs/alcohol/nervous breakdown/whatever can be considered invalid. But even this point is moot in Kotonoha's situation, as she has not said she is fine with it. And no - silence does not equal consent. Consent is never assumed; it is the opposite.

That said i will gladly eat my shoe if it turns out he didn't rape her, but i consider the symbolism of the falling ribbon and ripples of blood (meaning her losing her virginity) to be quite blatant.

[ACE2003]

.....Okay, I'm lost in translation here. When in the world did Taisuke rape Katsura? That ribbon scene completely flew by my radar? Doesn't help that I haven't played the game either. I mean, she actually had "sex" with Taisuke? WTF? I didn't see them get naked or nothing?!:uhoh: Umm yeah...I'm definately keeping a close eye on the next episode. If that's the case, I don't think that Taisuke would be the type to rape somebody, at least I hope not.:(

[AvatarST]

I don't know, I think going and calling him a rapist is a bit strong. Usually rape is violent and forced. Although she isn't in the proper state of mind right now, we don't really know what she's thinking. If she doesn't resist at all, I'd say its all good. The surprise sex term seems more fitting.

Consent has to be given. If not, it's rape, which makes him a rapist. We'd see I guess.

I still -strongly- disagree with that "teenagers care only about sex, sex and sex" argument, -especially- to justify Taisuke's actions which most sane teens wouldn't do. But even besides that, it was such a bad generalization (yes, I know you weren't the one to post that).

[Sinestra]

I don't know, I think going and calling him a rapist is a bit strong. Usually rape is violent and forced. Although she isn't in the proper state of mind right now, we don't really know what she's thinking. If she doesn't resist at all, I'd say its all good. The surprise sex term seems more fitting.

I see reasoning behind and logic behind what your saying. But in a court of law her not saying anything is not giving consent its never assumed. Rape is not always violent and is always forced. I will take back everything iv said about Taisuke if it turns out that he did not rape her, but im willing to bet my soul he did the symbolism at the end imo is very blunt her ribbon falling implies hes taking off her top i doubt he would have just stop with chest action. The red ripples is so blunt it hurts, her viriginity being taken you could also argue that the circles were repersenting Koto's virgina and her being penetrated add the blood in and you have it. If you have another way view of how this scene can be taken please share. Im honestly interested in you view point.

My argument was if he really cared for her he would listened to what she had to say after he confessed or he could have tried to comfort her since she was in shock after his news. There is no way in hell he couldnt tell she top talking abruptly and was like lifeless log. I think surprise sex would be more fitting to a guy coming home to his girl and shes all laid out ready to go SURPRISE HONEY. BUt we all have our opinion and any number of us could be wrong. I dont ask for much just Taisuke to castrated, beaten the oiled up and thrown in a cell in jail with a bunch guys who havent seen the light of day in about 30 years;)

Cats you might want to edit the last sentence in your post.

[D a m i e n]

i havent watched any episode yet and dont plan on watching this show.
from what i reckon the main guy is cheating on girls left and right and everyone is getting pissed at him.
isnt this anime based on a hentai game? i mean the purpose of those sort of Hgames is to get as many girls as possible, so why should people get all pissy over this happening in the anime?
i cant judge since i havent watched anything but to me it seems you are getting the same incoherent story as you usually have in Hgame where you accumulate girls to you shopping list and eventually end hooking up with one of them.

[Klashikari]

isnt this anime based on a hentai game? i mean the purpose of those sort of Hgames is to get as many girls as possible, so why should people get all pissy over this happening in the anime?
pas du tout :)

first, School Days, the game, doesn't have the goal to have "many girls as possible". in fact, this kind of "harem" is simply non existent or extremely rare (and probably on a bigger scale of gruesome, etc)

Eroge in general focus on the "girl of your choice". In SD case, Makoto is in a "realistic" situation as he can interact with any girl and it can creates various situations.

Again, the fact it was a eroge first is completely irrelevant. basically, it is based on a story of romance and cheating, and many people just can't stand the various dubious, idiotic and careless decisions of the "protagonist". even in eroge, it is actually rare to cheat on the girl the guy is choosing. (very few examples... white album maybe?)

i cant judge since i havent watched anything but to me it seems you are getting the same incoherent story as you usually have in Hgame where you accumulate girls to you shopping list and eventually end hooking up with one of them.That's not true either. Basically, in the usual progression of such game, once you are officially "hook" with a girl, there is almost never any possibility to change, and usually, you are going deeper in the plot and the girl backstory.
Ultimately, the goal is to "try" to pick the girl of your choice, though in SD, it is almost impossible to avoid "screws up", whereas Makoto can screw without your "permission" (some "innocent" choices can lead to disasters), and of course, you can do it by yourself. But the "end" doesn't get when you are "officially" the boyfriend of any of the girl, but when the MESS is cleaned (somehow)

you are talking about dating sim and peculiar games, which isn't SD type at all.

[Scribble]

pas du tout :)

first, School Days, the game...

Wow, that actually sounds pretty interesting. I'd like to see how the game could twist seemingly innocent choises into bad ones. I wish that I could play it.


Er, am I the only one who thought that they were going to make Makoto and Taisuki ironic characters, judging from Taisuki's appearances prior to this episode? Makoto being the harmless looking one who's really the rat, while Taisuki is the perverted one who would actually turn out to be not so perverted when it came to a real girl. I expected Taisuki to be all like "HOW CAN YOU CALL YOURSELF A MAN, MAKOTO? YOU'VE BEEN PLAYING AROUND WITH ALL THESE GIRLS" and beat him up or something. Turns out that I was wrong =X

[asandari]

I never believed Taisuke had any malicious intent, I agree with you there, however that doesn't change what he did. Just like getting drunk, losing consciousness, and finding out you killed someone doesn't exempt you from punishment O.o

And any justifications about doing something to someone against their will is wrong. It's a breach of their rights. Not to mention, you then become responsible for any mistakes in your judgment, which is not fair to them.

What Taisuke did was wrong. The only question will be whether or not he'll regret it?
Makoto's in the same situation now, since he's realized the gravity of his actions, though his dilemma is better described as "Facing your mistakes vs. Running from the consequences".

I think that once those decisions come to light (or if...) that the true intent of this anime as a whole might be revealed. Though it's certainly possible for it to go in a completely different direction... we'll see xD

And you're right about nothing being black and white, that's what makes life so frustrating... fiction can be another matter of course, depending how you interpret it, this anime might not be one of those cases though...

[Echoes]

I get what you're saying, Taisuke is slightly above your average rapist in terms of morality. It's not much, though, rape is rape, after all. He deserves punishment.

[asandari]

I completely agree with you that he deserves punishment. But I think he's a fair amount higher than the average rapist xD

It depends how you judge integrity, I suppose, it's a result vs. process debate.

[Sinestra]

I get what you're saying, Taisuke is slightly above your average rapist in terms of morality. It's not much, though, rape is rape, after all. He deserves punishment.

I completely agree with you that he deserves punishment. But I think he's a fair amount higher than the average rapist xD

It depends how you judge integrity, I suppose, it's a result vs. process debate.

Average Rapist? A rapist is a rapist i dont know how one could impose levels of rapist. Now do i think hes someone who takes pleasure in hurting others no but he still violated someone in one of the worst ways you can. I just dont get the average rapist comment explain.

[Vestus]

I didn't know that there were different levels of rapist. I just thought that if you raped someone then you are considered a rapist, end of story.

I guess there could be different levels of rape:

Worst - Violent Rape and Kill
Average - Violent Rape w/o the Kill
Best - Quiet Rape (humor me here)

[Echoes]

Technically a rapist is of course always a rapist, in the same way a murderer is always a murderer. I think it's too simple to just say a rapist is a rapist, and that's that, though. There are certainly degrees by which you can judge the cruelness of a crime, such as rape. They're all terrible atrocities, of course.

Now, the details with regards to this rape are still unknown to me, if Kotonoha did resist him, he's pretty much no better than any other rapist, probably not even those who intentionally seek out girls to rape them. I'm in no way trying to defend what he did, in no shape or form, he's a beyond-Makoto jackass no matter what the circumstances are.

What an "average" rapist thinks like, or if he's better or worse than Taisuke is something you can take with a grain of salt.

[asandari]

Like I said, it's a Process vs. Product debate. The end result is still the same, and it's still as despicable. However, would you hate someone who raped one girl, and regretted it for his whole life less than someone who rapes on a regular basis, finds nothing wrong with his actions, encourages or defends rape, and goes as far as to blame the women for it? Things like "they liked it anyways". That would certainly add even more onto the trauma, would it not? Making it even more vile?

Like echoes said, I'm not trying to defend Taisuke, just pointing out that he isn't as bad as some rapists are (or might not be). I don't mean in any way that this makes his action any more acceptable. Nor does it exempt him from punishment, or hatred.

[AvatarST]

Well, first we have to see if he gives a crap about what he's done or not.

Either way he deserves to go to jail, he can't get away with something like this just because he regrets it. He should've thought about that before doing it.

And yeah, I'd hate a rapist anyway, though of course there's some who are more despicable than others.

[ACE2003]

Very interesting....it seems that this thread's main focus has shifted from Makoto to Taisuke. I'm damn confused. Just how in the hell did he "rape" her? Where is the proof? I hear everyone screaming rape, rape, rape because of a ribbon dropping or something. The last real scene we see of Katsura and Taisuke is him hugging her. Just how do we jump from him hugging her to coming up with something like, yeah, he raped her because of the ribbon? And seems like no one is trying to clarify this, just jumping to serious acquisations. I'm trying not to act ignorant about it, but I'm reading the responses and I'm definately getting confused. Maybe because I didn't look too deep into the scene or what not, but I didn't see any sign of him raping her. All I saw was a ribbon dropping and water rippling.

I apologize if I missing something, but I just didnt understand the symbolization behind that scene. Just Taisuke saying that he loved Katsura. Untill I see some more evidence or proof or if someone is willing to school me on what the heck is that scene "supposed" to represent, then no rape has occuried in my eyes.

[Sinestra]

I did some research and found somethings since rape has been the issue since the last episode and what rape really is. Im letting you know this is going to be a long post so i will put it in a spoiler tag to save space. Keep in mind this is rape according to U.S. law and may differ from country to country and state to state since this took place in Japan it would be bound by their laws and as much as i hate to admit it Japan is very misogynistic society so things might not work out there the way they would in the U.S. A lot of you guys will be truly surpised by the findings and may want to rethink your position. Cheers :D

If a woman consents to having sex with a man but then during intercourse says no, and the man continues, is it rape
The answer depends on where you live. The highest courts of seven states, including Connecticut and Kansas, have ruled that a woman may withdraw her consent at any time, and if the man doesn't stop, he is committing rape. Illinois has become the first state to pass legislation giving a woman that right to change her mind. But in Maryland--as well as in North Carolina--when a woman says yes, she can't take it back once sex has begun--or, at least, she can't call the act rape.

That was the recent ruling by Maryland's Court of Special Appeals in a case that may soon make its way to the state's highest court and that has captured the attention of feminists and legal experts across the country. Advocates for victims' rights insist it's not just a matter of allowing a woman to have a change of heart. If the law doesn't recognize a woman's right to say no during sex, they say, there is no recourse for a woman who begins to feel pain or who learns her partner isn't wearing a condom or has HIV. Those who are wary of these measures say they're not arguing against having a man stop immediately when a woman no longer wants to have sex, but with how to define immediately.

When the California Supreme Court handed down a ruling in 2003 that codified the withdrawal of consent during sex, Justice Janice Rogers Brown, the lone dissenter, raised that very question. "The majority relies heavily on [the defendant's] failure to desist immediately," she wrote in her minority opinion. "But it does not tell us how soon would have been soon enough. Ten seconds? Thirty? A minute?" Mel Feit, executive director of the National Center for Men, a male-advocacy group based in Old Bethpage, N.Y., says biology is a factor. "At a certain point during arousal, we don't have complete control over our ability to stop," he says. "To equate that with brutal, violent rape weakens the whole concept of rape." His group has created a "consensual sex contract" to be signed before intercourse.

Victims' rights activists don't buy the loss-of-control argument. "It's insulting to men to say they can't stop," says Lisae C. Jordan, legislative counsel for the Maryland Coalition Against Sexual Assault. "Any one of us who's had a toddler walk in on them knows that that's not true. Or a teenager who's had a parent walk in--they stop pretty quickly." Still, even advocates concede it's hard to set a time frame in which sex must cease after consent is taken back. "I don't know where that bright line is," says Scott Berkowitz of the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network. "We'll leave that to juries to decide what's reasonable in each case."

The murkiness surrounding what's reasonable has deepened further with the Maryland case, which was tried in 2004. The accuser and the defendant agree that after he began to penetrate her and she wanted him to stop, he did so within a matter of seconds and did not climax. Even so, during deliberations, the jury sent a note to the judge asking if it was rape if a female changed her mind during the sex to which she consented and the man continued until climax. The judge said it was for them to decide. They convicted the defendant of first-degree rape, among other sex offenses.

But the appellate court, citing a 1980 rape ruling based on the English common-law idea of "the initial de-flowering of the woman as the real harm," unanimously ordered a new trial, essentially stating that how fast was not the issue, nor was whether the accuser had said no during intercourse. In Maryland, rape is determined at the beginning of the sex act, and therefore consent is officially given at that point. The court wrote, "It was the act of penetration that was the essence of the crime of rape; after this initial infringement upon the responsible male's interest in a woman's sexual and reproductive functions, any further injury was considered to be less consequential. The damage was done."

This logic has inflamed feminists and editorial-page writers. "The decision is philosophically from another century, from a time when our rape laws were based on the concept of women being property of men," says Berkowitz, whose organization will push for a legislative remedy if Maryland's highest court doesn't reverse the ruling. In the meantime, the defendant is serving a five-year sentence, and the legal world continues to debate how quickly--if at all--a man must go when a woman says no.

Definiton of Rape , degrees of rape and charges
Rape defined--Degrees--Felony. Rape is an act of sexual penetration accomplished with any person under any of the following circumstances:

(1) If the victim is less than thirteen years of age; or

(2) Through the use of force, coercion, or threats of immediate and great bodily harm against the victim or other persons within the victim's presence, accompanied by apparent power of execution; or

(3) If the victim is incapable, because of physical or mental incapacity, of giving consent to such act; or

(4) If the victim is incapable of giving consent because of any intoxicating, narcotic, or anesthetic agent or hypnosis; or

(5) If the victim is thirteen years of age, but less than sixteen years of age, and the perpetrator is at least three years older than the victim.

A violation of subdivision (1) of this section is rape in the first degree, which is a Class C felony. A violation of subdivision (2) of this section is rape in the second degree which is a Class 1 felony. A violation of subdivision (3) or (4) of this section is rape in the third degree, which is a Class 2 felony. A violation of subdivision (5) of this section is rape in the fourth degree, which is a Class 3 felony. Notwithstanding § 23A-42-2 a charge brought pursuant to this section may be commenced at any time prior to the time the victim becomes age twenty-five or within seven years of the commission of the crime, whichever is longer.

[Zeira]

I never believed Taisuke had any malicious intent, I agree with you there, however that doesn't change what he did. Just like getting drunk, losing consciousness, and finding out you killed someone doesn't exempt you from punishment O.o

And any justifications about doing something to someone against their will is wrong. It's a breach of their rights. Not to mention, you then become responsible for any mistakes in your judgment, which is not fair to them.

What Taisuke did was wrong. The only question will be whether or not he'll regret it?
Makoto's in the same situation now, since he's realized the gravity of his actions, though his dilemma is better described as "Facing your mistakes vs. Running from the consequences".

I think that once those decisions come to light (or if...) that the true intent of this anime as a whole might be revealed. Though it's certainly possible for it to go in a completely different direction... we'll see xD

And you're right about nothing being black and white, that's what makes life so frustrating... fiction can be another matter of course, depending how you interpret it, this anime might not be one of those cases though...

Yeah, I never said I think he isn't responsible for his actions. Same way if someone gets drunk and kills someone.. they are still responsibe.. but even wih that analogy I can use it.

Someone who gets drunk and kills somone... can not be put on the same level as someone who kills someone... and has the mindset to kill someone. Also, if someone snaps and kills someone.. they can plead temporary insanity.. and the courts will punish them for killing someone.. but not the in the same way they would punish someone who had the intent on killing.

so a rapist is still rapist, and all rapist should be punished...but to clump them all togthether and say they are all equally bad, it doens't matter the situation, I think is a bit drastic.

hmmm. possibilities.
A) If he rapes her.. and we find out she wasn't the lifeless doll we thought, she struggled she said no. She made it crystal clear to him she didn't want it.. and he keeps going... I am disgusted. I dont care if he feels bad after it or not. I don't care if he regrets it later or not. During the crime, he did it.. and on top of that mentally didn't care.

B) If he rapes her.. and we find out she struggled, and made it crystal clear. He knows but keeps going, and after doesn't care. He thinks it is great. he has no remorse or guilt.. He is even worse then above.. not that much.. both are pretty damn close. Only difference, is that in the first one, he realizes too late that he should have stopped.

NOW.

c) Lets say she doesn't tell him no, or make it clear. However, anyone with common sense can see this isn't the time for sex. However, despite this. he decides in his mind. "I am going to take advantage of her. This is the perfect opportunity." He has the intent of using the current situation to get what he wants, and he takes it. Completly dispicable. he may not have 'forced' her in to it, but the intent was there. It doesn't make it any less worse.

d) Same situation as directly above, however because he is the stupid idiot he is, along with the encouragement form otome saying "a girl wants to be pursued" He is thinking that this is okay. He is like.. okay she is not fighting me.. I just told her I love her.. I have been trying to talk to her for so long. he is oblivious to the fact that the shock of telling her the truth has made her vulnerable to the point that having sex with her is wrong, and he goes along with it.. the whole time never having the intention of hurting/raping her. .. then afterwards.. he see what he has done. Cause obviously she is not happy, she feels violated.. and he instantly knows.. "well duh" I was wrong.

now in every case it is rape. In every case it should be punished as rape. However, at the same time.. on a mental standpoint, I can't equate situation d's rapist.. to be on the same level as situation A's rapist.

aside from us knowing he raped her, we won't be able to judge this gray area until we see more of the anime.

[ACE2003]

Okay....I just did some research about that scene. I feel like a damn idiot!:( Wikipedia works wonders.:) It's definately sad that he would stoop to something that low. That scene indeed flew by me since I didn't play the game. Knowing this brings a WHOLE nother element into the fray. Now there's no telling what she'll do. God damn, I'm feeling plenty bad for Katsura right now.:(

[AvatarST]

I'd still classify him as a rapist even if it's D. If he's stupid, it's not Kotonoha's fault or anyone else's but himself. Why'd anyone have to sympathize with him? If he's evil and rapes her, or if he's stupid and rapes her, either way he still did it; the harm is still done.

To me, if you rape, you're a rapist. You can be more or less "evil", but you're still a rapist.

There's also the chance that he could realize what he's done later but not necessarily feel regret or the need to make up for it. I would never have much respect for a guy who starts undressing a girl right after confessing, and before even hearing her answer anyway, but that's a different story.

EDIT: Nevermind, you were still classifying D as a rapist, just a less bad one. We agree then.

[Sinestra]

Okay....I just did some research about that scene. I feel like a damn idiot!:( Wikipedia works wonders.:) It's definately sad that he would stoop to something that low. That scene indeed flew by me since I didn't play the game. Knowing this brings a WHOLE nother element into the fray. Now there's no telling what she'll do. God damn, I'm feeling plenty bad for Katsura right now.:(

Hit you pretty hard huh? welcome to the group brother i actually wanted to cry a little and im not ashamed to say it. its just sad and undeserving i have never seen a character who deserves so much happiness get shit on as much as Koto. After doing the research i did and learning what rape is considered i will classify Taisuke as a 3rd degree rapist according to law no ifs or buts. If this was real life not only would he go to jail but once he got out he would have to register as a sex offender no matter where he went. He can burn in hell

[Forbin]

Not to bag on Katsura (I still refuse to call her Koto) here's what I see of the girls so far.

Setsuna - Likes the guy for a year but knows she can't have him because of best friend. Kissed him ONCE
Sekai - Likes the guy for a while (not specified). Slept with Guy
Otome - Like the guy since Middle School, willing to do what she wants to get what she wants. Slept with Guy and willing to stab other girls in the back.
Hikari - Will she play a role in the last 3 episodes?
Katsura - Dated guy for a couple of weeks (?) and is totally obsessed with him and views all other girls as people who are stealing him from her.

Of all these, Katsura is the only one who wants Makoto and is sticking to him like glue even though they dated for 2 weeks and won't take the hint he's dropping.

These are the typical signs of a person about to go 'Higurashi' on someone. Even without Taisuke's actions. (Though those don't help)

[Zeira]

Hit you pretty hard huh? welcome to group brother i actually wanted to cry a little and im not ashamed to say it. its just sad and undeserving i have never seen a character who deserves so much happiness get shit on as much as Koto. After doing the research i did and learning what rape is considered i will classify Taisuke as a 1st degree rapist according to law no ifs or buts. If this was real life not only would he go to jail but once he got out he would have to register as a sex offender no matter where he went. He can burn in hell

how is he first degree rapist, if we are ging off of the info you gave.

(1) If the victim is less than thirteen years of age; or

(2) Through the use of force, coercion, or threats of immediate and great bodily harm against the victim or other persons within the victim's presence, accompanied by apparent power of execution; or

does not apply to this situation. I think most people agree, from the knowledge we know.. that 2 didn't happen. 1, is debatable. I dont know if two under age people having sex can count as statutory rape.. I think one person has to be of age.

if anything, according to the info you put up.. he would be classified as third degree.

(3) If the victim is incapable, because of physical or mental incapacity, of giving consent to such act; or

(4) If the victim is incapable of giving consent because of any intoxicating, narcotic, or anesthetic agent or hypnosis; or

fits the situation a lot more.

[Sinestra]

how is he first degree rapist, if we are ging off of the info you gave.

(1) If the victim is less than thirteen years of age; or

(2) Through the use of force, coercion, or threats of immediate and great bodily harm against the victim or other persons within the victim's presence, accompanied by apparent power of execution; or

does not apply to this situation. I think most people agree, from the knowledge we know.. that 2 didn't happen. 1, is debatable. I dont know if two under age people having sex can count as statutory rape.. I think one person has to be of age.

if anything, according to the info you put up.. he would be classified as third degree.

(3) If the victim is incapable, because of physical or mental incapacity, of giving consent to such act; or

(4) If the victim is incapable of giving consent because of any intoxicating, narcotic, or anesthetic agent or hypnosis; or

fits the situation a lot more.

Whoops typo sorry about that yes a 3rd degree rapist. Even then Katsura would still have to prove it. Taisuke wouldnt have to prove his innocence katsura would have to prove his guilt. Which given the state she was in would be really hard. I would not be surprised if we find out that she doesnt even remember most of the details of the incident

[Zeira]

Whoops typo sorry about that yes a 3rd degree rapist. Even then Katsura would still have to prove it. Taisuke wouldnt have to prove his innocence katsura would have to prove his guilt. Which given the state she was in would be really hard. I would not be surprised if we find out that she doesnt even remember most of the details of the incident

Yeah, that part sucks. But I fully agree with you that I have never seen a character so deserving of something good..... get shitted onj as much as her.. no one really deserves the line of negative events that has happened to her. I dont care how much you hate the person.

[Sinestra]

Yeah, that part sucks. But I fully agree with you that I have never seen a character so deserving of something good..... get shitted onj as much as her.. no one really deserves the line of negative events that has happened to her. I dont care how much you hate the person.

I understand why the writers have had all this stuff happen to her its part of the drama of the School Days. But its just really hard for me to comprahend the amont of shit this girl has gone through. I cant think of anything good that has happen to this poor girl since the series started, except for her being happy she had a boyfriend when talking to her sister and look how that has turned out. I have no hate towards her at all and even if i did i still would not do all the stuff they have done to her. When i watch how she interacts with her little sister and how her sister like Itou so much i just even more upset. I damand satisfaction I am breaking out the credit card now because if she has a bad ending i have the feeling my hand is going through my 30" monitor

[Vestus]

Not to bag on Katsura (I still refuse to call her Koto) here's what I see of the girls so far.

Setsuna - Likes the guy for a year but knows she can't have him because of best friend. Kissed him ONCE
Sekai - Likes the guy for a while (not specified). Slept with Guy
Otome - Like the guy since Middle School, willing to do what she wants to get what she wants. Slept with Guy and willing to stab other girls in the back.
Hikari - Will she play a role in the last 3 episodes?
Katsura - Dated guy for a couple of weeks (?) and is totally obsessed with him and views all other girls as people who are stealing him from her.

Of all these, Katsura is the only one who wants Makoto and is sticking to him like glue even though they dated for 2 weeks and won't take the hint he's dropping.

These are the typical signs of a person about to go 'Higurashi' on someone. Even without Taisuke's actions. (Though those don't help)
I fail to see any flaws in Kotonoha's actions.

1.) Love is supposed to be obsessive, look at the other 2, I would classify them as obsessive since they went as far as to have sex with him inorder to win him over (not that I agree with their actions).
2.) Kotonoha's view of the other girls stealing Makoto from her is rational, reasonable, and logical. Since she was the one who was dating Makoto first, and there was no clear "break up".
3.) I don't think Makoto had any intention of dropping Kotonoha. Reason for this is during the episode Makoto saw the 20 text messages from Kotonoha and realized he screwed up and rushed after her (of course didn't work out b/c of Otome).
4.) Those are typical signs, but you don't know if she would or would not (hence the word typical, as in most/but not all cases). All we know is that if Kotonoha goes 'Higurashi' then Taisuke raping her (if it happened) definitely was one of the reasons she did.

And I think most of the board is missing a very important point: Love (or the misconception of Love for Lust) makes people do very stupid things.

[KholdStare]

You know this is excellent. I don't recall an episode rating where 1/10 has the most votes spanning 17 pages of discussion.

[Sinestra]

I fail to see any flaws in Kotonoha's actions.

1.) Love is supposed to be obsessive, look at the other 2, I would classify them as obsessive since they went as far as to have sex with him inorder to win him over (not that I agree with their actions).
2.) Kotonoha's view of the other girls stealing Makoto from her is rational, reasonable, and logical. Since she was the one who was dating Makoto first, and there was no clear "break up".
3.) I don't think Makoto had any intention of dropping Kotonoha. Reason for this is during the episode Makoto saw the 20 text messages from Kotonoha and realized he screwed up and rushed after her (of course didn't work out b/c of Otome).
4.) Those are typical signs, but you don't know if she would or would not (hence the word typical, as in most/but not all cases). All we know is that if Kotonoha goes 'Higurashi' then Taisuke raping her (if it happened) definitely was one of the reasons she did.

And I think most of the board is missing a very important point: Love (or the misconception of Love for Lust) makes people do very stupid things.
I agree with you on pretty much everything you have stated which is why if Koto has a bad ending Im grabbing my flamming pitch fork and raising hell. Stop screwing over good characters writers yes im specifically to you cruel writers out there that love to destory innocent and sweet characters *wipes tears from his eyes* damn it i love anime:D
You know this is excellent. I don't recall an episode rating where 1/10 has the most votes spanning 17 pages of discussion.
Good point you have there. Its like people rate the episode 1 because of how painful it is to watch the characters not exactly how good the episode was

[Klashikari]

1.) Love is supposed to be obsessive, look at the other 2, I would classify them as obsessive since they went as far as to have sex with him inorder to win him over (not that I agree with their actions).
Love is supposed to be possessive, not obsessive. obsession is rather a higher stage of desire. Sekai isn't exactly as obsessive as i can see many girls getting annoyed if their boyfriend act erratic. OTOH, Otome was bold. if both were obsessive, their "aggressivity" and pattern would be far much worse.

2.) Kotonoha's view of the other girls stealing Makoto from her is rational, reasonable, and logical. Since she was the one who was dating Makoto first, and there was no clear "break up".It is logical, but not rational, not reasonable; as even if there isn't any "official break up" it is plain obvious that it doesn't work. clinging on a falling relationship is fruitless obsession.

3.) I don't think Makoto had any intention of dropping Kotonoha. Reason for this is during the episode Makoto saw the 20 text messages from Kotonoha and realized he screwed up and rushed after her (of course didn't work out b/c of Otome).He certainly doesn't want any problem, so it is quite easy to guess the aftermath. if he was that concerned, he would ignore Otome so.

4.) Those are typical signs, but you don't know if she would or would not (hence the word typical, as in most/but not all cases). All we know is that if Kotonoha goes 'Higurashi' then Taisuke raping her (if it happened) definitely was one of the reasons she did.That's uncorrect. While the damage of the mental blow the rape could deal, she is literaly fixing on Makoto, and the damage is much more on his side, than taisuke. Considering how she was at the end of the episode, It isn't even sure she cared that Taisuke was doing his stuff.

And I think most of the board is missing a very important point: Love (or the misconception of Love for Lust) makes people do very stupid things.Love can also "increase" some aspect. As you can see, Kotonoha doesn't "MIND" that Makoto was with others girls. that mind she doesn't care if he actually love her. However, she got struck as Makoto didn't fulfilled the promise, and as Taisuke was saying the utter and undeniable truth.
It is something much more complicated and "dumb" as love/lust. And no, it can't be either of the 2, or at MOST, it is love, not lust.

[Sinestra]

Another problem i see is actually trying to rationally love. Love is not rational as a matter a fact it is one of the most unrational most volitle emotions a human can feel. Even the changes in our body when we are in love or at least infactuated with a memeber of the oppostie sex changes. Strong feelings love of attachment actually cause a chemical imbalance in the body. Which is why when things are not fufilled in our loving relationships we get depressed. Heart ache is a real term anyone who has lost a loved one or had a relationship not work can speak up for, the feeling like your heart is empty or going to explode are chemical withdraws from certain hormons that your body has been pumping out and that person or persons is no longer the catayst they are stimulating those hormons anymore, its almost like going through withdraw from a drug addiction . Im not saying that what Klashikari and Vestus are wrong they are both true and right several things. I just think its a mistake to try rationalize such a emotion. Lust on the other hand is easier to break down since its more primal than anything else Lust is usually and ony about the physical

[Zeira]

That's uncorrect. While the damage of the mental blow the rape could deal, she is literaly fixing on Makoto, and the damage is much more on his side, than taisuke. Considering how she was at the end of the episode, It isn't even sure she cared that Taisuke was doing his stuff.

I think this is why there is such a major disagreement when it comes to taisuke. Us, being the viewers, looking at it from the outside can say that rape is wrose. It may be worse.

But this anime hasn't made it as clean cut as that. There are so many things to take in to consideration. Bringing up that love is not rational is a great point. It is because of that reason that sometimes.. other mental blows... can outweigh the mental blows of a rape. Love, or what someone may think love is, can turn in to obssession.. once you are obsessed.. that will be the number one thing on your mind,

My take on love has always been this.::::
The person you are in love with, truely in love with!.. WILL be the person who can cause you the most pain in your life. The same way the person you love, WILL alway be the person who will make you the happpiest in your life. It is a double egded sword.. add obsession to it.. and everything goes to hell.

Stepping away from katsura,. A woman who is in love, completely trusts the man in her life, and has been with him for quite some time.. will probably be more devastated by his sudden betrayal (and I mean serious betrayal. not just one cheating time.. like.. really bad betrayal.).. then being raped.. (not that rape won't leave a mental scar, or be traumatiing.) because

Rape.. you are being violated, it is wrong and you are left hurt. However, if it is someone you dont really know, or a stranger raping you.. the feeling of betrayal isn't there. they had no obligation to you. You are mentally wounded casue you were violated.

When you have to deal with love, obsession, or what people think is love, man.. being betrayed is some shit.. especially if the person betraying you takes it to a whole new level..

I think the worse thing that can probably happen to a person is if you add these two things together.. if the person you loved, and trusted.. raped you, or even someone you knew and trusted.... >.> OW.

For koto, I truely feel that Makoto not loving her back, and acting the way he does.. will weight heavier on her mind then the fact that she just got raped.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for this episode not being good, I too think pepole are voting only based on the fact that this episode dragged out alot of negative emotion in them, they are pissed, sad.. angry.. But it is becasue of this.. that this episode was so good. So much ot debate on and talk about, and that it is hittign people emotions. I think it was very good.

[Klashikari]

I think this is why there is such a major disagreement when it comes to taisuke. Us, being the viewers, looking at it from the outside can say that rape is wrose. It may be worse.
What i meant isn't related to Taisuke's rape at all. i merely give the detail about Kotonoha being a solid wreck. that's why it is kinda irrelevant to argue about the rape itself and its impact if we are just "predicting" with the meager amount of information and detail until now.

But his anime hasn't made it as clean cut as that. There are so many things to take in to consideration. Bringign up that love is not rational is a great point. It is because of that that reason that sometimes.. other mental blows... can outweight a rape. Love, or what someone may think love is can turn in to obssession.. once you are obsessed.. that will be the number one thing on your mind, and th person you are in love with.. WILL be the person who can ever casue you the most hurt in your love.. add obsession to it.. and everythign goes to hell. The irony here is that most voiced opinions here tend to act the contrary of what you states : many people put the "shades" of the anime, while others just use the solid and consensus of the said action IRL.

we are about discussing some "psychological traits of characters", it would be better to take references of the past and the development.
and as far as i can see, i do believe it can't be considered as love, for either kotonoha or taisuke. (and of course, makoto)

For koto, I truely feel that Makott not loving her back, and acting the way he does.. will weight heavier on her mind then the fact that she just got raped.
that's what i was meaning... we weren't conflicting :heh:
As for this episode not being good, I too think pepole are voting only based on the fact that this episode dragged out alot of negative emotion in them, they are pissed, sad.. angry.. But it is becasue of this.. that this episode was so good. So much ot debate on and talk about, and that it is hittign people emotions. I think it was very good.
I don't like this episode because of th wishy washy execution and the forceful addition of several "deadline" elements.
frankly, the episode could deliver so well without useless devices and gimmicks. but the scripters decide to play nuts, and here we are.
If they were less crazy on superficial plot devices, this episode would happen rhoughly around 6-7 if they wanted to, without being able to demolish the balance of the show.

but i agree many people rate, reflecting their state of appreciation of the plot, and not the episode itself. not that wrong.
but i'm not loving "forced debate" brought by a half well constructed episode. that's my opinion.

[Zeira]

ohh, I din't think you were conflicting with me at all. lol You are one of the few people who understood when I said that for Katsura.. the mental blows from Makoto .. will probably be wrose then the mental blow of taisuke raping her.

It was just when I started coming in this topic.. so many people were saying taisuke is wrose. and so much. I can understand that from an outside point of weiw. I also understand that if most of us were put in her situation, the rape would be the worse thing. However, I was looking at it from Katsura veiw. and if I try to think the way she is thinking.. Makoto would be the worse in my/her mind. not Taisuke.

I dont think any of these people in this anime love each other.

But for those of us who are older... I know a few of you ..had to of had times when you swore, as a teenager, that you loved someone. Yet, your parents, or older people ,were telling you it isnt love. We know these character don't love each other, however, they dont. They are mixing lust and obsession for love.

The thing about it. it isn't love, but in there mind they think it is. (katsura, Taisuke - IMO the only ones who think they are in love).

[Zanshun]

Kotonoha is the only reason I care about this anime anymore and that is why this anime is so hard to watch nowadays. Taisuke clearly raped her and the symbolism for it was rather blunt. Even without that symbolism I'd believe if people claimed she was probably raped just based on the fact that it seems at this point if its a negative thing that could occur to Kotonoha it is bound to happen. There is no last minute rescue for her, the knight riding in on a white horse turns out to be the lowlife Makoto instead. Taisuke is clearly trash and I don't see why there is so much discussion on degrees and whatnot, any decent person should know that rape is just plain wrong and Taisuke raped her, so he is complete trash.

I can't blame Makoto for sleeping with Sekai or Otome, they threw their bodies at him and he just took action like many sane male lead in a harem series should. His treatment of Kotonoha has made me despise him like few others however. The point of no return for his redemption occurred in a certain scene in episode 6 and I'm actually suprised that no one seems to mention it. The scene where they are walking back and Kotonoha trips to the ground, he barely even bothers to look back and makes no effort to help her up or help her gather her things. He only picks up the yarn because he is curious about what it is. This was supposed to be a girl he at one time had cared about, but you see no care or concern on his part at all. Even if it was a girl I despised if she fell to the ground I'd rush over and help her up, what kind of a failure of a man is he in that respect.

This episode did have a highlight however, probably the funniest scene in the whole series. The scene where Sekai asks Makoto if she is his girlfriend and Makoto not answering. Didn't Sekai witness firsthand just how Makoto treats his "girlfriend"?? In fact he already got a head start and began cheating on Sekai before him and Sekai officially became a couple through that dance. The nonresponse and hopefully later the video tape being shown to her, at least Sekai will get whats coming to her.

[Klashikari]

ohh, I din't think you were conflicting with me at all. lol You are one of the few people who understood when I said that for Katsura.. the mental blows from Makoto .. will probably be wrose then the mental blow of taisuke raping her.
haha, i though before, and that's why i mentioned with the ":heh:" ^^".
Now, to add something which might be "leading" to either way (without using the game material), Kotonoha can goes into either Depression, or Mania. (do not read as madness please, it is different), or even mania-depressive. I can see simply either a catatonic state, or just the plain aggressive and blind stances. whichever, you choose.
Again, useless comment i believe, as we still need more information. (oh boy, this is the only part i feel it is a relief i played the game, as i have a wide idea of the possibilities how it can end. a torn removed from my foot huh...)

It was just when I started coming in this topic.. so many people were saying taisuke is wrose. and so much. I can understand that from an outside point of weiw. I also understand that if most of us were put in her situation, the rape would be the worse thing. However, I was looking at it from Katsura veiw. and if I try to think the way she is thinking.. Makoto would be the worse in my/her mind. not Taisuke.I believe the ultimate problem is not only the lack of details of the situations + feelings of kotonoha and taisuke, but also how we can "quantify" mental damage and aftermath/consequences of both, as especially, Makoto was a huge trigger of this insane situation. that's why arguing and comparing for the moment is pretty hard, if not fruitless.

I dont think any of these people in this anime love each other.I can only see Sekai and Makoto, and only if they started "normally" their relationship as anyone in general. so, yes, impossible. (at least, it IS in the game... but tricky...)

But for those of us who are older... I know a few of you ..had to of had times when you swore, as a teenager, that you loved someone. Yet, your parents, or older people ,were telling you it isnt love. We know these character don't love each other, however, they dont. They are mixing lust and obsession for love. I do have experimented 1-2 situations were "IT IS LOVE!" while it isn't, though it is not possible to tell, as i don't believe many people would have such... highschool life :heh:

The thing about it. it isn't love, but in there mind they think it is. (katsura, Taisuke - IMO the only ones who think they are in love).The problem doesn't only lie in "if it is, or it isn't", but also the "possibility" and "reality".
Even if you love someone, if the other does NOT and shows either cheating, unsure, or indifferent behaviour, i don't believe it would be quite normal, even in love, to stay like this. (that's why i believe Sekai is the most "normal" character among the MESSED ones. aside of them, only setsuna and 1-2 are unaffected)

thus the difference between love and obsession. of course, you can't force yourself to feel "it isn't", but love doesn't force you to torn yourself life a meatbag, while it is clearly hopeless, even for the most clueless persons. (heck, i'm not even surprised that Uzuki, despite her age, found out about makoto and sekai)


EDIT : zanshun, actually, lot of people knew about the indifferent behaviour makoto had when kotonoha trip, which sparked even more... "obvious hate" :heh:
that's why it is a consensus that Makoto clearly does NOT love her at all. even the slightest, and that the "compassion" he has shown, is merely an attempt to prevent getting trouble. (and no, i'm not convinced by his "i'm the worst/saiite" )

[Zeira]

I dont know if Sekai thinks she loves Makoto yet. I know she likes him, she feels she needs him.. whether she thinks she is in love.. or just liking him.. To my knowledge. we dont know.

[Klashikari]

it is hard to tell. this is the reason why i felt it could only work if nothing happened, and that either one of them make the step foward the other.
Not only it "might" spark something genuine with the yaro, but also confirm/increase or change what Sekai could feel for him.

pretty much a lot of factors for the WHAT IF scenarii.

[FlameSparkZ]

Oooookaaay...after watching this episode:

[Hate towards Makoto has shifted to Taisuke and multiplied tenfold]

That guy...is by far worse than Makoto, who's just being a jerk.

Using Otome's advice and the situation to his advantage, he pushed his 'feelings' onto Kotonoha, who was already shocked by the fact that Makoto was out there dancing with Sekai.
That's just not right...

It's really painful...and things will probably get worse as the story continues. I didn't play the game...but saw what'll happen to Kotonoha if the events stay this way :(

[AvatarST]

I think Sekai loves Makoto, but I don't think Makoto loves her. I -thought- he did or perhaps could...before this epiosde.

As for the issue you're arguing about, I simply believe that a failed relationship, no matter how badly it failed, is much easier to recover from than rape is. Of course, that might not be the case with Kotonoha specifically, especially considering her mental state when she was raped.

So Makoto has maybe done more damage to Kotonoha in this situation specifically, but I still feel Taisuke is the far bigger evil if I analyze their actions objectively. Why? Because for 95% of the non-Kotonoha girls, rape would be much worse for them...so in a way, Kotonoha's also to blame for obsessing over a jackass to this extent and not wanting to see the truth.

Just my two cents.

[Sinestra]

Its really hard to say who truly loves who in this series. If i had to put money down i would say the closest person to loving someone would be Sekai. But as Zeira pointed out there were times when we were younger (this is for the older guys) that we swore it was love when we teenagers. You look back on that now and you know for a fact it was not you were too young to know what the hell love is and even now maybe most of us dont. Thats why i said trying to explain love in a rational way is futile love is not rational what we say about love are our preconceptions or biased ideas about we cant help it.

Again Klashikari points out a very good point we just dont have enough information to go on. The resulting damage if any from Katsuras experience with Taisuke will give us more insight into where the hell the series might be taking us. Her mental anguish over Makoto is proven fact it there in our face we dont have speculate on it. Sekai on the other hand is one of the characters we really dont have to speculate over either to me she behaves exactly as she should. Playing the blame game at this point does nothing because of the domino effect everyone is involved in this mess even Katsura who asked for none of it. The mental damage that may result in the end is so tricky. Some of us think Taisuke raping her will do more mental damage and others think that Makotos mental abuse will be more damaging in the end. In a way everyone is right she could go either way. She is so heavily emotionally invested in Makoto that his carelessness alone could push her over the edge. Then again Taisuke violation of her could cause emotional damage as well especially if she thinks that she has been unfaithful because of the person she is and snaps from that.

My prediction for ending is we have to watch what Katsura does in episode 10 her emotions what she says everything. I believe that give us a peek at what might be coming. We get an original ending specifically made for anime that would throw everyone off.

[FlameSparkZ]

I think Sekai loves Makoto, but I don't think Makoto loves her. I -thought- he did or perhaps could...before this epiosde.

As for the issue you're arguing about, I simply believe that a failed relationship, no matter how badly it failed, is much easier to recover from than rape is. Of course, that might not be the case with Kotonoha specifically, especially considering her mental state when she was raped.

So Makoto has maybe done more damage to Kotonoha in this situation specifically, but I still feel Taisuke is the far bigger evil if I analyze their actions objectively. Why? Because for 95% of the non-Kotonoha girls, rape would be much worse for them...so in a way, Kotonoha's also to blame for obsessing over a jackass to this extent and not wanting to see the truth.

Just my two cents.

I think Makoto just can't make up his mind, either that or he simply goes along with what ever girl he's talking at the moment (as seen in this episode, Makoto and Otome)

In some anime (and games) the male lead is just too kind towards everyone (especially girls), but in this case, he's a jerk who does things halfheartedly...kinda refreshing though...in a wierd kind of way :twitch:

[Zeira]

you know another sucky thing about this....

Lets say I take your view point that basically rape will always be the bigger evil.

Lets say that Girl A is raped (whether she is A koto girl or not), the damage from the rape is done, and it will be hard to get over. However, lets say that girl A goes to the person that she loves.. thinking that she will get support. (I mean, this really horrible thing just happened to her, most people who arent even friends would want to be there for a rape victim)

Lets say that the person in question, pushes it off to the side like they don't care. So girl A got raped.. and he shows no sympathy for girl A.

It doens't matter if this guy in question loves girl A, what is important is that this girl in question loves, or thinks she loves this guy.. If he turns her down, and is cruel and a jerk about it, don't you think that MAYBE the hurt from not having someone you love there for you. may outweigh the pain of the rape itself. This is not the situation koto is in, atleast we do not know so yet. However, I bring it up to point out a point that rape is not the worse mental blow that can happen to someone.

Maybe I am just ass backwards lol.
if I was raped .. I would damned sure be traumatized. I know I would get over it eventually.. cause I know my personality. However. During my time of need, after being raped.. if the one I trusted to turn to, and go to for help (whether it was a 'friend' or 'bf').. treated me shitty during that time.. The pain from that would be right up there with being raped.. For me I would be like torn apart about having been raped, and then right on top of that feeling like I have no one to turn to.. cause the person I tried to trust.. shot me down.. *shudders*

I couldn't forgive the rapist, but I couldn't forgive that person either. Anyway that was an off topic situation, casue we don't know what has happened after the rape yet.

She is so heavily emotionally invested in Makoto that his carelessness alone could push her over the edge. Then again Taisuke violation of her could cause emotional damage as well especially if she thinks that she has been unfaithful because of the person she is and snaps from that.
Damn I never even thought about that possibility. I really wouldn't be surprised if she thinks she was 'unfaithful'.. worrying about that.. instead of worrying about the fact she was just raped . That would be so HARD to watch.

[Aoz]

The only reason i'm following this show now is to see what will happend of Katsura(praying for a happy ending:upset:) i couldn't care less of the other "characters".

Everyone else in the show appears to be either a jerk, idiot or just evil and aren't worth anything.

I don't think there's much Love in this series maybe Sekai to Makoto but even that is doubtful. I don't even think Katsura is really in Love with Makoto at least she wouldn't if she really knew what kind of person he is.

[Blue_Mercy]

Maybe I am just ass backwards lol.
if I was raped .. I would damned sure be traumatized. I know I would get over it eventually.. cause I know my personality. However. During my time of need, after being raped.. if the one I trusted to turn to, and go to for help (whether it was a 'friend' or 'bf').. treated me shitty during that time.. The pain from that would be right up there with being raped.. For me I would be like torn apart about having been raped, and then right on top of that feeling like I have no one to turn to.. cause the person I tried to trust.. shot me down.. *shudders*

I couldn't forgive the rapist, but I couldn't forgive that person either. Anyway that was an off topic situation, casue we don't know what has happened after the rape yet.

Damn I never even thought about that possibility. I really wouldn't be surprised if she thinks she was 'unfaithful'.. worrying about that.. instead of worrying about the fact she was just raped . That would be so HARD to watch.


I'm not sure if your dead set on trying to defend Taisuke or if you want Makoto to be the "ultimate villain" but, I doubt you will find many people coming to Makoto's defense. I at least think that Makoto's neglectful, lying, cheating, bastard ways are the reasons she was put in a situation to get raped.

Not to mention guy characters like him and Taisuke makes us all look like assholes. I think the only type of girlfriend Makoto wants is a free hooker. While what Makoto is doing is morally wrong it isn't illegal, but what Taisuke did is. It's up to you which one you think is worse as for me I'll choose the rape as worst, while still hoping they both get what they deserve at the end.

[Tasdern]

Ok, I watched this EP 4 times and I can't say there was any rape at all. I saw a ribbon fall an create red ripples. I have no idea how that is considered rape.

I think peope are taking what they know of the game and projecting it into the Anime. At this point, no one knows what happened. Its a teaser. We'll find out latter.

And Makoto isn't quite the sleaze everyone thinks he is. He is just too stupid to see that he is risking something very good with Sekai.

[Klashikari]

Ok, I watched this EP 4 times and I can't say there was any rape at all. I saw a ribbon fall an create red ripples. I have no idea how that is considered rape.

I think peope are taking what they know of the game and projecting it into the Anime. At this point, no one knows what happened. Its a teaser. We'll find out latter.
some unspoiled people already made this assumption.
As it isn't confirmed yet, the amount of hints, and the huge symbolism of the ribbon are extremely hard to be mistaken.
The untied ribbon itself implies her clothes are being untied. the red ripples are kinda self explanatory.
the last scene shows her face, half covered by the darkness.

while these aren't exactly solid image of it, the hints are quite explicit.

[Aceywacey]

I think this is why there is such a major disagreement when it comes to taisuke. Us, being the viewers, looking at it from the outside can say that rape is wrose. It may be worse.

For koto, I truely feel that Makoto not loving her back, and acting the way he does.. will weight heavier on her mind then the fact that she just got raped.


What if ... she feels that having been raped by someone else, she has no more chance of being with Makoto because Makoto may not want her anymore now that someone else has had sex with her.

This is a real issue with rape victims, and huge part of their pain.

[Zeira]

hahaha. nope, I am not trying to defend Taisuke. I have no problem on people hating him, but why not hate both of them.. it is like.. becasue they view Taisuke as the ultimate evil they can ignore makoto, and disregard the possible fact that even though we may hate it.. Poor little koto will still be fretting over her situation with Makoto more. *shrug*

let me rephrase.
for the situation that koto is in, from what we know. On an outside view..I WILL say that rape is worse hands down. though there are things that Makoto could do to her that are not rape.. that could probably hit her way harder then rape... just for the simple fact she loves/obsesses over him.

and.

in show, and irl, there are worse things that can happen to someone then rape. (as far as leaving a mental impact). those things have nothing to do with physical things..

What if ... she feels that having been raped by someone else, she has no more chance of being with Makoto because Makoto may not want her anymore now that someone else has had sex with her.

This is a real issue with rape victims, and huge part of their pain.

someone brought that up earlier. very possible and would really suck.

irl, I dont think the pain of rape stems much from thinking that since you have been violated, someone else may not want you. It is possible.. but what I usually hear is that the rape victim will have a mistrust of men, or just be traumatized that there own body was violated against their will.. and there was nothing they could do about it. Just my thoughts. everyone is different and could feel differenlt about it.

[AvatarST]

But at the end of the day, rape is still a crime and still has a bigger effect on the vast majority of people compared to a failed relationship. Don't get me wrong, I really despise Makoto and his utter idiocy, but Taisuke's far, far worse in my eyes. I have no sympathy whatsoever for rapists. None at all.

The situation you explained, well, we haven't seen her go to Makoto and get ignored yet. Even in that case, though, I'd still believe the rapist is worse, even if I'd think the guy who ignored her is a jackass.

[Zeira]

well. I have no sympathy for rapists,and it is a crime. I just feel differently in thinking that rape could be the worse mental impact that could happen to me, or to all those people who go crazy, or end up in wards based off of relationsip things. may be a minority, but it is enough for me.

That is joy of everyone being different, people react to things differently. To expect eveyone to agree on this matter would be impossible. I wouldn't be surprised if there are even more viewpoints.

We just agree to disagree.

but too make people happy.. who think I am disagreeing with them.. At makoto's current level of what he has done.. it is not worse then rape. ^^
But I don't think Katsura will feel the same way.

EDIt

A friend wanted me to say to you that there is more then one type of failed relationship. Criminal things aside.
that you hear stories of people being traumatized their entire life cause they were raped, people killing themselves cause they were raped. At the same time there is equal news about people doing the same things over 'failed relationship.' To say that it can't be as mentally destroying as rape is it to undermine how very strong emotions can get, and to say that it is impossible for someone to feel an emotion so strongly that being betrayed could drive them crazy... which is a pretty common thing now.

Dont bother responding to him. in the end it is still agreeing to disagree.

so lets try moving on.. o.O but to what.

[alphabetdude]

Sup Im new and all i gotta say is this series is painful to watch but addicting lol

DAMN !!! Game Taisuke is way F-ing worse , I just saw a clip of him n Koto, ...... that was just wrong

As for Makoto wow dullest , dumbest , protagonist I have ever seen . Dude must have A.D.D. or something.

[HaZzArD]

makoto = blastard period end of story

[KholdStare]

Watch, one month after the series end we will consider it one of the classics.

[Thingle]

The sex in school tradition is enviable. I wish it exists in real life.

Well, what could I say. I've finally watched what I've been clamoring for during the past weeks. It's just too bad that the act itself wasn't shown.

[Echoes]

Watch, one month after the series end we will consider it one of the classics.

This is history in the making, eh? ^^

For better or worse, this is one of the animes I discuss most.

[felix]

The sex in school tradition is enviable. I wish it exists in real life.I had it at my school, but it wasn't a tradition and it's hardly as romantic as they make it believe in school days. At my school people didn't mess with festivals, they would just find a deserted room, a corner and lock themselves in. And well let's just say they would be absent that day. This went on for a while. I don't think there was a student in the school that didn't know about it, but student-administration communication was damn bad. Eventually sings appeared and strict lock and key policies were enforced.

I had the teacher-student crap as well. It was a 18-40 type combination. It went something like this: A+ uber nerd needs help (she's been getting A marks) » she periodically goes at her teacher's house for "help" » suddenly out of the blue she's in love with him (oh and she's found out she's pregnant too :rolleyes:) » they live unhappily ever after, The End.

All I can say is: in real life it ain't interesting, it ain't romantic and it ain't pretty. It's just plain stupidity all round.

[l3LooDLusT]

This is history in the making, eh? ^^

For better or worse, this is one of the animes I discuss most.

indeed this is one hell of an anime its painful yet addicting. but theres still 1 thing that beats the drama of the anime its the thread itself. ive been in so many threads but nothing compared to drama in this thread. evry1 has their own idea on wats outwiegh more the rape or the other one but in reality we really dont know becoz im pretty sure no1 here actaully experienced raped or the harsh emotional breakdown that koto is feeling right now even me myseld and i thinks that the rape is harsher(thats my opinion), we can only relate or feel sympathy or disgusted by their action but in some ways we all here learned something from it and i think thats why this anime would one day be a classic coz it captures or pull the audience into its world. This is why i love anime it brings me to other worlds in order to have a short break from unfair reality.

[Echoes]

A short break from the unfair reality, into the unfair world of School Days? :p

I would agree that most of us would've no idea how devastating a rape would be, but I'm sure many of us have experienced painful episodes or periods in our lives that've been filled with personal tragedy and/or despair.

School days was definitely a bold move, and I think they managed what they set out to do, from what I hear it's pretty popular.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

I have never felt so angry watching an anime before...Makoto is just plain stupid in this episode...but Taisuke and Otome are even the biggest idiots in this episode.
oh my goodness, the drama has really increased.

[Thingle]

There's no love in this series, just a whole lot of lust.

[l3LooDLusT]

There's no love in this series, just a whole lot of lust.

indeed but lust is the essence of love

A short break from the unfair reality, into the unfair world of School Days?

haha ironic isnt it. i was trying to get away from reality yet i ended up in the same position but *im loving it* lol shoot i might get sued my Mcdonald using there music slogan im lovin it. geez all this drama kept me awake its 4 am peace and gnight

[felix]

I like to think of it like the symbolism in the Taijitu. One does not come from the other but they exist together and there's a little bit of one in the other.

[ACE2003]

Watch, one month after the series end we will consider it one of the classics.

Hmm...not necessarily. Well at least from my point of view. Don't get me wrong, I like the anime. But there's nothing "epic" about it. Nothing that really stands out. Now Gurren-Lagaan on the other hand.....we'll be talking about that for years and years and years to come. That series is what I would call a classic. But that's a whole nother forum and subject in itself.

School Days has indeed been an interesting ride with few ups and plenty of downs. Hopefully this can end on a positive note...that is if Makoto gives up his pimpin ways!:heh::)

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

I'm pretty surprised that this episode got mixed reviews...I gave this an 8/10 because well, the whole episode was pretty good in terms of building up drama thats being set up towards the end of this episode...-2 points for the ending of course.
Rape is nothing to be happy about. Even though Kotonoha didn't know what was going on with her because of the heavy shock that she just heard from Taisuke and the bonfire dance, she just couldn't take it anymore, let alone that she knew Makoto broke their...well more likely her...her promise to Makoto about the dance.
After this episode, I really do feel bad for Kotonoha...the bullying, the endless scheming games that Makoto played on her, and now this...I can see a bad ending towards this series already...I don't even have a clue on how Makoto will even solve this whole broken up love relationships.
But I'm surprised that this episode was all driven by a sequence of events that all link to Makoto.

[Nightling]

which web site i can see this anime?

[Thingle]

Koto was the victim of Makoto's failure to formally end his relation with her. The rape was good though :), although it should be done in public and in front of Kotonoha's family instead of it being done in a cramped room.

[Mashimaro]

This series.. makes me want to headbutt something..twice.

[ACE2003]

Koto was the victim of Makoto's failure to formally end his relation with her. The rape was good though :), although it should be done in public and in front of Kotonoha's family instead of it being done in a cramped room.

Am I reading this right or are you being sarcastic?:uhoh: After further investigation of the scene, for those whom haven't played the game yet, it's not possible to tell whether or not sex insued between Katsura and Taisuke. I'm hoping that the next episode explains what happened, but I'm already expecting the worse. In a way, it's somewhat scary to watch Katsura hold on to Makoto for so long despite all the sexual activity he's been doing...and the worse is yet to come. I'm wondering if she will find out that Otome and Makoto had sex. If she did, then...damn. This is going to get pretty ugly.

[Mashimaro]

What I am hoping to see in the new few episodes.
-Otome brags that she slept with Makoto
-Koto kills Otome
- " kills Makoto
- " kills Sekai

Happy end~

[Tasdern]

If anything from that last scene, I felt that Katsura realized that she had lost Makoto and was just on the rebound. My impression is that she felt that had she went all the way, they woudl still be together. So in her mind she is actually with Makoto.

I've seen this in real life and it make sense. Much more believeable than anything else.


THIS IS NOT THE GAME. DO NOT MIX THE GAME AND THE ANIME. IT SPOILS THE SHOW!:frustrated:

[asandari]

There is a school tradition regarding sex, or was, for a while at least. Those who were in love and went to the prom together would rent a hotel room for the night. This has died down a lot though through public campaigns and sex-education. Plus the increasing amount of people who choose to have relationships later and careers first.

At this point school days has done a great job building up the tension, and despise for a majority of the characters, as well as a lot of sorry feelings for koto. Depending how it goes from here it could make or break it. Drop it to a 7/10 or even 6/10 overall for me, or manage to become an all time classic in my books. Might even make 10/10, if they're really ingenious about what they do.
Sucks though that everyone is game spoiling, I wouldn't even expect a violent/bloody ending at this point in the series xD

[CCYoshi]

Wow, even when you read summaries of the episode it's still so much different watching it. Maybe because you get to facepalm or laugh (at the what I term Uber Melodrama) or just look stupefied at the episode in realtime, but really, the insert songs at the end, segueing into the episode title and credits...sends shivers down my spine. Great song, and the lulls and rises really fit with the animation.

It's a horrible story but they're telling it brilliantly, I think.

[Xellos-_^]

What I am hoping to see in the new few episodes.
-Otome brags that she slept with Makoto
-Koto kills Otome
- " kills Makoto
- " kills Sekai

Happy end~


you forgot Koto kills Taisuke

[Echoes]

Oh no, Taisuke goes on and becomes the male lead for the next season. :)

[felix]

That's actually a good idea. Would be interesting just hearing an aftermath.

[Echoes]

It'd have to revolve around his daily life in prison and include a lot of "don't drop the soap" scenes for me to be satisfied with it.

[Xellos-_^]

It'd have to revolve around his daily life in prison and include a lot of "don't drop the soap" scenes for me to be satisfied with it.


He is japan, they don;t have that sort of thing going.

If it was a US prison :D

[fubar84]

As for Makoto wow dullest , dumbest , protagonist I have ever seen . Dude must have A.D.D. or something.


True that, he's got issues. But he doesn't know it!

What an amazing manwh*re. :mad:

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Makoto really does forget things really fast...right after he gets the 20 missed messages from Kotonoha, he rushes off from the classroom to see Kotonoha, since he did promise her to dance with her in the folk dance, but only to get stopped by Otome and then they have sex...but after that, its like Makoto forgets about seeing Kotonoha and remembers that the folk dance is about to start and just rushes off to see Sekai without even one thought about Kotonoha or her 20 missed messages to him.
He really is stupid...

[AvatarST]

I'm starting to think it's just that he acts on impulse and doesn't give a ****.

This post put it quite eloquently I think: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1122994&postcount=141

A friend wanted me to say to you that there is more then one type of failed relationship. Criminal things aside.
that you hear stories of people being traumatized their entire life cause they were raped, people killing themselves cause they were raped. At the same time there is equal news about people doing the same things over 'failed relationship.' To say that it can't be as mentally destroying as rape is it to undermine how very strong emotions can get, and to say that it is impossible for someone to feel an emotion so strongly that being betrayed could drive them crazy... which is a pretty common thing now.

Dont bother responding to him. in the end it is still agreeing to disagree.

so lets try moving on.. o.O but to what.

Heh, I saw this just now, sorry I didn't answer before. To answer (I know you said not to bother, but I don't wanna be rude. :heh:) I definitely know where s/he is coming from. I agree, actually. I just think that for the average person, in Kotonoha's situation, Makoto's actions wouldn't have that big an effect, since they just got cheated on and ignored, it's not like she was dating a wife beater or someone dangerous or crazy like that. One can recover from that, normally; it's just an HS relationship, not all of them prosper. On the other hand, rape would have a bigger effect than this sort of stuff - but yes, it's true that some relationships can be more traumatic to people than rape. I just don't think it's the case with this one...it's just that Koto is a little too obsessed, so it can go that way with her.

Anyway, thank you and your friend for the comments, and I'm fine with agreeing to disagree, though I don't think we disagree that much really. :p

[Zeira]

well when you put it that way, yeah we dont really disagree that much.. more of a misunderstanding.

Cause I do agree, that if we stick with what we already know from the anime, that the rape is way worse then what Makoto has done. Though maybe not in Koto's eyes because she is a special case.
~nod nod~

I await episode 10

[Sinestra]

I'm starting to think it's just that he acts on impulse and doesn't give a ****.

This post put it quite eloquently I think: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1122994&postcount=141



Heh, I saw this just now, sorry I didn't answer before. To answer (I know you said not to bother, but I don't wanna be rude. :heh:) I definitely know where s/he is coming from. I agree, actually. I just think that for the average person, in Kotonoha's situation, Makoto's actions wouldn't have that big an effect, since they just got cheated on and ignored, it's not like she was dating a wife beater or someone dangerous or crazy like that. One can recover from that, normally; it's just an HS relationship, not all of them prosper. On the other hand, rape would have a bigger effect than this sort of stuff - but yes, it's true that some relationships can be more traumatic to people than rape. I just don't think it's the case with this one...it's just that Koto is a little too obsessed, so it can go that way with her.

Anyway, thank you and your friend for the comments, and I'm fine with agreeing to disagree, though I don't think we disagree that much really. :p

well when you put it that way, yeah we dont really disagree that much.. more of a misunderstanding.

Cause I do agree, that if we stick with what we already know from the anime, that the rape is way worse then what Makoto has done. Though maybe not in Koto's eyes because she is a special case.
~nod nod~

I await episode 10

Both you guys had so many good points there is no point in repeating them. Iv to expect very intelligent and very informative post from certain members who post here. Just to add another perspective into Katsura's psyche that i think we have overlooked but has been mentioned numerous times. Ask your self have you ever sent anyone you know girlfriend/Boyfriend whoever 20 text messages in lets say a 2 hour period? Given what we have seen with Katsura so far and how far she is willing to go keep Makoto, her mental break down was well on its way. The 20 messages is another sign of her desperation. That and the fact that she assumes whenever Makoto ignores her or there is another problem its must be her fault. Like Zeira I await episode 10 half heartedly. I want to see how things progress from here but at the same time i dont everything is just heart wrenching to watch. Again I ask that everyone pray for at least some type of good ending for Katsura that that does not involve doing something drastic

[Zeira]

It is vey heart wrenching to watch. I had no clue what I was getting in to when I started watching this anime. I certainly wasn't expecting any of this. It was a shock..

However, at the same time it is becasue this anime can get such strong emotions from me.. that make me want to watch it. As most know, I am pretty new here, as in I don't post much.. or at all. However, I had to vent, and talk about this anime. I had no choice but to post and discuss it with other people.

right now, because of her psyche, I am afraid of her blaming the rape on herself. Or worrying about makoto not caring for her because she was raped. ... thinking she was unfaithful. Someone brought this up before.. >.>

[41nano]

Why am i the only one who think koto hasn't been raped ?
I mean she just gives in to taisuke, she dosen't try to escape or to fight.
This is not a rape for me, she was just so shocked with Makoto's attitude that she let Taisuke do whatever he wanted with her.

[kayos]

You can say she was in a semi coma, her body was wide awake but her mind wasn't there. Can you really justify that she gave her body to Taisuke when her mind wasn't there. She was saying Makoto name afterall and you could obviously tell she was zoned out except for the twitch.

That indeed was not consent for the hundredth time.

[Xellos-_^]

Why am i the only one who think koto hasn't been raped ?
I mean she just gives in to taisuke, she dosen't try to escape or to fight.
This is not a rape for me, she was just so shocked with Makoto's attitude that she let Taisuke do whatever he wanted with her.

Again if NO CONSENT is given then it is RAPE.

NO CONSENT = RAPE

Saying the girl never said no because she was consencious is going to cut it in the court of law.

I don't know about France but in the US you will be tried and convicted and sentence as a Adult. The sentence will be 10-15 years and while parole is suppose to be offered for good behavior. These days in the US, most governors and parole boards would be committing political suicide to parole a sex offender. After you are release you will be required to register as convicted sex offender.

[Echoes]

Yeah, it's definitely rape. Taisuke's perverse antics were representative of his character after all, I guess. I didn't think he'd go this far, but it appears he's even more obsessed with sex than Makoto. (Think about that for a while, *more* than Makoto.)

[Kristen]

Why am i the only one who think koto hasn't been raped ?
I mean she just gives in to taisuke, she dosen't try to escape or to fight.
This is not a rape for me, she was just so shocked with Makoto's attitude that she let Taisuke do whatever he wanted with her.

If they had sex, it's rape. He never asked her, as far as we saw, so he never got consent. The girl has to say yes for it to be consentual. Furthermore, if he asks, she says no, and he continues to ask/beg/threaten and she agrees, it is rape.

That is why if you have sex with someone who is drunk, it is automatic rape, because you cannot consent to anything while you are intoxicated.

The only way it would have not been rape is if there is something we did not see in which he asks her, and she says yes, or if they never had sex at all. However, those odds are very very small.

Anyways, I am really excited for episode 10. I think Setsuna will reenter the stage, and this story is going to get even more complex than it already is.

By the way, in Eastern Standard time, what time does Episode 10 come out on, and on what day?

[Darkside]

Maybe he just went to hug her and her ribbon got knocked off.

[41nano]

If they had sex, it's rape. He never asked her, as far as we saw, so he never got consent. The girl has to say yes for it to be consentual. Furthermore, if he asks, she says no, and he continues to ask/beg/threaten and she agrees, it is rape.

That is why if you have sex with someone who is drunk, it is automatic rape, because you cannot consent to anything while you are intoxicated.

The only way it would have not been rape is if there is something we did not see in which he asks her, and she says yes, or if they never had sex at all. However, those odds are very very small.


I don't think there are a lot of japanese girls who openly says "i wanna be fucked"...
We talk about a country where lots of girls says "no" while they have sex...

[Echoes]

I don't think there are a lot of japanese girls who openly says "i wanna be fucked"...
We talk about a country where lots of girls says "no" while they have sex...

Why would there be a need for them to put it so blatantly? (not that they couldn't, anyway) Let us for a second assume that your assertion is remotely true, are you saying girls can't nod, or give a reassuring smile to their lover..? Kotonoha didn't even react, from what we saw, there's no way Taisuke could mistake her silence for approval, no matter how you put it.

Please just drop the subject, it's set on a false premise, and a stereotype.

[Sinestra]

Why am i the only one who think koto hasn't been raped ?
I mean she just gives in to taisuke, she dosen't try to escape or to fight.
This is not a rape for me, she was just so shocked with Makoto's attitude that she let Taisuke do whatever he wanted with her.

I don't think there are a lot of japanese girls who openly says "i wanna be fucked"...
We talk about a country where lots of girls says "no" while they have sex...

41nano I understand where you are coming from and how easy it is to say it was not rape. However everyone here has pretty much concluded it is rape as a matter a fact i myself posted what constitutes in the eyes of law. Taisuke would be charged with 3rd degree rape. Here I have reposted most of it for you in the spoiler tag it is pretty clear read it for your self it may help you understand why everyone is calling it rape. I am not nitpicking or raging on you I just wanted to show you why majority of people here have come to that conclusion. Each degree has description of what rape is and the charges that would be bought forth. Even though these are the laws for the U.S. i cant see Japan not having some similar or equal.

Definition of Rape , degrees of rape and charges

Rape defined--Degrees--Felony. Rape is an act of sexual penetration accomplished with any person under any of the following circumstances:

(1) If the victim is less than thirteen years of age; or

(2) Through the use of force, coercion, or threats of immediate and great bodily harm against the victim or other persons within the victim's presence, accompanied by apparent power of execution; or

(3) If the victim is incapable, because of physical or mental incapacity, of giving consent to such act; or

(4) If the victim is incapable of giving consent because of any intoxicating, narcotic, or anesthetic agent or hypnosis; or

(5) If the victim is thirteen years of age, but less than sixteen years of age, and the perpetrator is at least three years older than the victim.

A violation of subdivision (1) of this section is rape in the first degree, which is a Class C felony. A violation of subdivision (2) of this section is rape in the second degree which is a Class 1 felony. A violation of subdivision (3) or (4) of this section is rape in the third degree, which is a Class 2 felony. A violation of subdivision (5) of this section is rape in the fourth degree, which is a Class 3 felony. Notwithstanding § 23A-42-2 a charge brought pursuant to this section may be commenced at any time prior to the time the victim becomes age twenty-five or within seven years of the commission of the crime, whichever is longer.

[Xellos-_^]

I don't think there are a lot of japanese girls who openly says "i wanna be fucked"...
We talk about a country where lots of girls says "no" while they have sex...

Are you a expert on Japanese culture?

Japanese Porn and Hentai is not indicative of how real Japanese girl/women reacts in real life.

[AvatarST]

I think we should end this argument. It's been pretty much proven that if it's as it was hinted, and unless it's contradicted in the following episode, it's rape, so just let people believe as they wish. Agreeing to disagree isn't a bad thing.

Of course, you're free to go on with your debate since I'm no one to tell anyone to what to talk about, but I just don't feel anything productive will come out of this. If you think otherwise, go ahead, though.

[Darklightz]

@Sinestra : Wich country's laws are those?

Besides,if you want to get litteral then Makoto raped Sekai as well. Sekai did try to push Makoto away multiple times and yet he forces himself on her.

[Sinestra]

@Sinestra : Wich country's laws are those?

Besides,if you want to get litteral then Makoto raped Sekai as well. Sekai did try to push Makoto away multiple times and yet he forces himself on her.

I mentioned it in my post the laws that were stated are for the U.S. I actually have a friend who is fluent in Japanese and he is looking of the laws on Rape for Japan its self its just for my personal interest.

[kayos]

Besides,if you want to get litteral then Makoto raped Sekai as well. Sekai did try to push Makoto away multiple times and yet he forces himself on her.

Astonishing theory, but sadly I would have to disagree. I don't think you (and many others) truly understand the meaning of rape.

To suggest that Makoto raped Sekai, I'm guessing you did not comprehend the relationship that they were in. I'd recommend watching from eps 1 again, I apologize for I am too lazy to explain the details.

[l3LooDLusT]

To suggest that Makoto raped Sekai, I'm guessing you did not comprehend the relationship that they were in. I'd recommend watching from eps 1 again, I apologize for I am too lazy to explain the details.

Hmm, so u were saying that once ur in a relationship even if the girl says no to sex wen u asked yet u force it its still not rape? thats what darklight is implying that makoto force hisself on sekia when she sed no cant that be called rape too coz she didnt give her consent. well its almost time for episode 10 well just need to watch it in order to end this argument if taisuke really did rape koto i hope not. i want happy ending pls!!!!

[Neki Ecko]

Hmm, so u were saying that once ur in a relationship even if the girl says no to sex wen u asked yet u force it its still not rape? thats what darklight is implying that makoto force hisself on sekia when she sed no cant that be called rape too coz she didnt give her consent. well its almost time for episode 10 well just need to watch it in order to end this argument if taisuke really did rape koto i hope not. i want happy ending pls!!!!

Well if Makoto force himself on her and she said no, and contiune say No even doing intercourse, that is what you can rape. But she did give him consent after him tried to force himself, that is what you called "Not rape". Man, I should start take signature bets if there is a happy ending on this or not.

[kayos]

Hmm, so u were saying that once ur in a relationship even if the girl says no to sex wen u asked yet u force it its still not rape? thats what darklight is implying that makoto force hisself on sekia when she sed no cant that be called rape too coz she didnt give her consent.

I wasn't expecting someone to bend my words and use it against me, and yes I understood what Darklightz meant.

To clarify things, no it's not ok to rape someone when your in a relationship with them. Yes Makoto and Sekai are having an affair, from my view it's a mutual give and take relationship. Makoto wants Sekai and vice versa but to my understanding the only reason why Sekai would say no is out of guilt for Kotonoha.

Her desires for Makoto are there, but she's trying to restrain herself. Makoto may have forced it on her by persuading her with sweet words of being together... I'm lost in my own words and thoughts. To be continued... maybe.

I know it's confusing but I hope that helped a little.

[Zeira]

You know, this topics had made me think of something very interesting. Since we get so see most of what is going on, as the viewers. We can say it is 3rd degree rape. However, in show.. or even if that happened in real life.... It would be extremely hard for koto to prove her case.

Like I someone earlier said..'In the end .. a failed relationship is still a failed relationship.. For most'.. in most cases where it deosn't get extreme.

Could you imagine her being in court saying.

"Well my bf, Makoto, cheated on me, So.. I wasn't in the right state of mind when I let Taisuke have sex with me. I didn't say yes, but I didn't exactly stop him. You have to understand, I wasn't mentally capable cause my Bf cheated on me.. "

>.>

She would have to prove that this simple failed HS relationship was enough to drive her over the edge, where she could not make the decision for herself.

[kayos]

It would be extremely hard for koto to prove her case.

Actually no... Kotonoha is the main witness/victim/evidence. The court will always side with the victim and it's up to the defendant to try and well, prove their innocence.

They would probably make it look like she was mentally unstable from the shock of her boyfriend cheating on her and making it look like the defendant took advantage of that situation and assaulted her in her weak state of mind. Yes a hug can also be considered assaulted (more like sexual harassment) if not wanted by the other party.

They would also bring up "consent" which was never given, whether she resisted or not. That right there would probably end the case.

[Chewy]

The court will always side with the victim and it's up to the defendant to try and well, prove their innocence.


Well, depends on what country you're talking about, but I'm fairly certain in Canada and the US this is not always the case. The court will side with those with evidence on their side, and if it comes down to "he said, she said" the victim will probably lose if the defense can pull up some dirt on the victim to create reasonable doubt of rape.

[Vestus]

You know, this topics had made me think of something very interesting. Since we get so see most of what is going on, as the viewers. We can say it is 3rd degree rape. However, in show.. or even if that happened in real life.... It would be extremely hard for koto to prove her case.

Like I someone earlier said..'In the end .. a failed relationship is still a failed relationship.. For most'.. in most cases where it deosn't get extreme.

Could you imagine her being in court saying.

"Well my bf, Makoto, cheated on me, So.. I wasn't in the right state of mind when I let Taisuke have sex with me. I didn't say yes, but I didn't exactly stop him. You have to understand, I wasn't mentally capable cause my Bf cheated on me.. "

>.>

She would have to prove that this simple failed HS relationship was enough to drive her over the edge, where she could not make the decision for herself.

Well yeah, but send in the Anime Tape and she wins.

Joking aside, she was still raped. We all know that, and anyone trying to argue against that is fighting a already lost battle.

EDIT:
WE all know she was mentally incapable. And proving it doesn't change the truth, only reveals/clouds the truth.

[Nvis]

Eagerly waiting for the next ep tomorrow.

The drama....need more!

[kayos]

Well, depends on what country you're talking about, but I'm fairly certain in Canada and the US this is not always the case. The court will side with those with evidence on their side, and if it comes down to "he said, she said" the victim will probably lose if the defense can pull up some dirt on the victim to create reasonable doubt of rape.

We are talking about rape cases... aren't we? The victim is the major evidence. Most of the rape cases will have a semen/dna test to prove the defendant actually did the act if they denied it. If it comes down to the words of "he said, she said" the court will base their judgment on the quality of the characters, both victim and defendant. But overall the court will sympathize with the victim and lean toward their side if, the defendant cannot prove their innocence.

Yes I agree with you, whoever has the strongest evidence will win.

You do know "reasonable doubt of rape" means the defendant is guilty of rape without certainty that he actually did it right?

[StrawberryKitten]

how could he have sex with another girl?? and then leave katsura alone and dance with sekai!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAH!!!!!

[l3LooDLusT]

how could he have sex with another girl?? and then leave katsura alone and dance with sekai!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAH!!!!!

LOL thats makoto for u the legendary protagonist

[Inari]

I've just watched the 9th episode and OMG, it's getting so weird, though it was even weird enough. I can say I hate Makoto, only thinking with his di**, I wouldn't be disappointed if died in the end of that anime.
Koto didn't accept the truth till there, that her boyfriend was cheating on her. I just wonder how thigs will go on, I just can't wait for ep 10 !!!!

[Neki Ecko]

how could he have sex with another girl?? and then leave katsura alone and dance with sekai!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAH!!!!!

Then turn around in the next episode:

He sleep with a another girl that is not named Otome, Sekai or Koto and Otome shows the action scene that she and Makoto was doing to either Sekai or Koto

Oh, Makoto......He is the Legendary Real Men of Genius

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/PeeplesCuttino/untitled1.jpg

[AvatarST]

It doesn't really matter how it goes in the court, though. The rapist can commit a crime and get away with it due to lack of evidence or whatever when he's tried, doesn't mean he didn't commit a crime by breaking the law, hence he's still a piece of trash.

Well, for me, that's what rapists are anyway :heh:. Your mileage may vary.

[Inari]

Then turn around in the next episode:

He sleep with a another girl that is not named Otome, Sekai or Koto and Otome shows the action scene that she and Makoto was doing to either Sekai or Koto

Oh, Makoto......He is the Legendary Real Men of Genius

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/PeeplesCuttino/untitled1.jpg

You mean he's going to sleep with a third girl??? Could it be Setsuna?

[l3LooDLusT]

You mean he's going to sleep with a third girl??? Could it be Setsuna?

hahaha i hope not shes not even fully develop yet could it be the girl with blue hair? or the pretzel hair girl? my money is on the pretzel girl lol i should put all the girls on SD so i wont be wrong lol he might just sleep with all of them if their willing lol

[Darkside]

"In comparison to other countries in the developed world, Japan has a unique prosecutorial system. Ninety-nine percent of criminal defendants are convicted in Japan, and almost all are convicted following their own confession. Prosecutors tend to bring charges only when they have a signed confession from the accused, and such confessions often occur after long questioning by police. Although defendants have a right to counsel, it is generally not possible for them to obtain counsel between their arrest and indictment. This makes it difficult to judge the true extent of criminal activity in Japan, since many possible criminals refuse to confess and are thus never indicted.

Japan has a death penalty that can be invoked by the Minister of Justice for murder, arson, and crimes against humanity. The death penalty's constitutionality has been challenged by some advocacy groups in Japan but continues to be upheld by the Supreme Court. There are five other basic forms of criminal punishment in Japan: imprisonment at hard labor, imprisonment, fine, detention (less than 30 days), and minor fine (less than ¥10,000). Japan has been criticized for giving lenient punishments for some crimes, most notably rape (which carries a typical sentence of 2–5 years in prison, and a theoretical maximum of fifteen).

Note: The penalties in the Criminal Law were revised and reinforced in 2004. Therefore, the lower limit of the penalty of rape is now three years in prison, with a theoretical maximum of twenty."



Source taken from Wikipedia

[Sinestra]

Well, depends on what country you're talking about, but I'm fairly certain in Canada and the US this is not always the case. The court will side with those with evidence on their side, and if it comes down to "he said, she said" the victim will probably lose if the defense can pull up some dirt on the victim to create reasonable doubt of rape.

Unfournetly, its very hard for a rape victim to win a case. Rape is the only crime where the victim is literally on trail and has to prove that the defendent is guilty not the other way around. That is the reason why most rape victims wont come forward when it happens. Katsura's case would be very hard for her to prove in court. It would come down to he said she said and with no evidence and with Taisuke not having any previous criminal history on his recored he would get off. IT sucks but thats how it works there is no one to stand as a witness for her and im sure with how her messed up her mind was at the time, there will be peices that she cant remember. I would bet that she doesnt actually remember the rape its self but she remembers the afterwards part after Taisuke was done.

This is so tricky since this is taking place in Japan we dont know how their laws work. Like i said before though i have a friend who is looking up the rape laws for me since hes fluent in japanese

[D a m i e n]

for some reason these discusion make me laught.
from a stereotypical point of view the hero/main guy is supposed to be shy, weak, moderatly handsome at best and clumbsy with feelings, but when i m browsing these boards i giggle, cause it seems that the guy is stud adding girls to his cherrypop list.
i dont know what s happening in the anime but dont get so fired up, it s totally irealistic, i mean all the cute girls he encounter would already have a boyfriend and he would only have his hand to play with.
not to mention if the main guy is sensitive it s even worst, here are the only wise words my father ever told me when i asked him why girl were always attract by men that misstreat them.
"Son, womem dont like sensitve men, only sensitve men like sensitive men"

[Klashikari]

for some reason these discusion make me laught.
from a stereotypical point of view the hero/main guy is supposed to be shy, weak, moderatly handsome at best and clumbsy with feelings, but when i m browsing these boards i giggle, cause it seems that the guy is stud adding girls to his cherrypop list.

la n'est certainement pas la question -___-"

The issue isn't exactly the setup at all, as it is absolutely not our usual love triangle/harem story.

i dont know what s happening in the anime but dont get so fired up, it s totally irealistic,
I feel some discussions are going overboard and too "passionate", of course.
But it is quite silly to pretend to be "not so fired up" if you didn't have a peek in this anime. it is like saying "why show "X" is so popular?" while the question can be answered by watching X.

i mean all the cute girls he encounter would already have a boyfriend and he would only have his hand to play with.
That is absolutely irrelevant.

not to mention if the main guy is sensitive it s even worst, here are the only wise words my father ever told me when i asked him why girl were always attract by men that misstreat them.
"Son, womem dont like sensitve men, only sensitve men like sensitive men"
Oi... what is the original french version of this sentence? i'm curious...
and seriously, that part cannot be claimed in such situation, considering we have the advantage of the third perspective.
The story cannot make everything "that obvious to everyone", otherwise, it wouldn't make any sense.

[D a m i e n]

sorry i agree, i cant really comment since i havent watch the show.
i was more commenting on the stereotype you too often encounter in romance anime, i dont really like those kind of anime so i always biased when commenting on them.
reguarding the personal feeling people put in anime well it s been a very long while since i ever felt personnaly involved in an anime.
The funny thing is that the last anime that ever moved me was kimi ga nozomu eien (yeah i know it s one of those romance anime i like to make fun of). KGNE even managed to make me cry!!!

as for what my father told me well the french version was something like that :
"Mon fils, les femmes aiment les hommes dures et les salauds. Seuls les hommes sensibles aiment les autres hommes sensibles"

[Sinestra]

sorry i agree, i cant really comment since i havent watch the show.
i was more commenting on the stereotype you too often encounter in romance anime, i dont really like those kind of anime so i always biased when commenting on them.
reguarding the personal feeling people put in anime well it s been a very long while since i ever felt personnaly involved in an anime.
The funny thing is that the last anime that ever moved me was kimi ga nozomu eien (yeah i know it s one of those romance anime i like to make fun of). KGNE even managed to make me cry!!!

as for what my father told me well the french version was something like that :
"Mon fils, les femmes aiment les hommes dures et les salauds. Seuls les hommes sensibles aiment les autres hommes sensibles"

Although School Days has made me want to cry several times it has not managed to get me into full blown out tears like KGNE did which is one of my favorite romance animes of all time. But they are both tragic in their own way. THey are both emotionally draining and for drama fanatics its perfect

[Echoes]

I think KgNE has a lot more genuine drama than School Days, and the characters there are believable, especially when set up against Kotonoha/Makoto. It deals with things we can relate to, life-choices and situations that would be hard to deal with for anyone, not abstract craziness like School Days. School Days offers something very different, so it's sort of unfair to compare them in that manner, at least in my case, as KgNE will always come out on top.

That being said, School Days offers a lot in terms of originality and tension, I'm always anxious to find out what's going to happen next. Right now, for example, I'm very anxious about the Taisuke/Kotonoha scene, I wonder how she'll react, and perhaps even more-so, what Taisuke will do next.

[Major1138]

Well while School Days seems to draw a lot of comparisons to KGNE, I don't think they are really that similar beyond the superficial - a somewhat unlikeable protagonist and a really messed up love triangle/polygon.

KGNE's drama is driven by forces beyond the character's control, and honestly, all the drama in the series arises from the decision pretty much every character takes to not tell the entire truth at one point or another. While we can all berate Takayuki for being horribly indecisive, or Mitsuki for stabbing her friend in the back (regardless if one agrees with either position) at least one can sort of sympathize with the situation they're all in, which would be pretty trying for even the most strong-willed of characters.

As mentioned, School Days is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. It's somewhat realistic in that high school relationships tend to be drama-to-the-max anyways, but the whole thing seems to push the limits of "how much drama can there be?" on a fairly regular basis. That's not to say it's not entertaining - I'm amazed at how they've managed to increase the drama with each subsequent episode without having the whole thing explode, and the ending, if nothing else, will be quite memorable.

[Deathkillz]

more evidance of kotonoha's downward spiral into nothingness...this "love" is turning into obsession and really isnt doing any good for her (i guess this is the time where i start to show pity knowing how she is the victim so far...mentally unstable or not this isnt her fault imo ~ blame makoto and sekai's alter ego) ~ but i must say that knee into his nuts really made me feel good! ++++ points for sekai :D heres hoping that he will become sterile ^__^

otome jumping in head first...oh the joys! haha!!! makoto really is a legend...so basically he will go for anything with 2 or more legs :rolleyes: his comment on otome's appearence further sent him deeper into hell in my books :3 sekai giving otome the evil glare haha XD

"baka couple"

kokoro's friend is really smart ~

kotonoha getting bullied again *sigh* even without watching further i can just see kotonoha taking makoto into the lounge (head bashes!) ~ now sekai loses her points gained last ep reverting back into a baka...why the hell is she asking makoto to go to the dance with her! AGHHHH cant she see that this solves nothing if kotonoha still consideres makoto as her boyfriend!? :frustrated:

new pairing! taisuke x otome!

more burning! makoto finally picks up his phone and goes running to kotonoha only to be stopped by otome...hahahahaha!! tradition! XD this is really really bad...in a good way! :D so he beds otome...he really does have a memory span of a goldfish (oh dear i cant say that or i would be insulting the fishes! :rolleyes:)

kotonoha still in denial and gets hooked up with taisuke...okey it was forced *sigh* she has been corrupted :(

the insert song + dance was beautiful...in a hellish way

oh how i love this series! :D 10/10

[Guido]

more evidance of kotonoha's downward spiral into nothingness...this "love" is turning into obsession and really isnt doing any good for her (i guess this is the time where i start to show pity knowing how she is the victim so far...mentally unstable or not this isnt her fault imo ~ blame makoto and sekai's alter ego) ~ but i must say that knee into his nuts really made me feel good! ++++ points for sekai :D heres hoping that he will become sterile ^__^

otome jumping in head first...oh the joys! haha!!! makoto really is a legend...so basically he will go for anything with 2 or more legs :rolleyes: his comment on otome's appearence further sent him deeper into hell in my books :3 sekai giving otome the evil glare haha XD

"baka couple"

kokoro's friend is really smart ~

kotonoha getting bullied again *sigh* even without watching further i can just see kotonoha taking makoto into the lounge (head bashes!) ~ now sekai loses her points gained last ep reverting back into a baka...why the hell is she asking makoto to go to the dance with her! AGHHHH cant she see that this solves nothing if kotonoha still consideres makoto as her boyfriend!? :frustrated:

new pairing! taisuke x otome!

more burning! makoto finally picks up his phone and goes running to kotonoha only to be stopped by otome...hahahahaha!! tradition! XD this is really really bad...in a good way! :D so he beds otome...he really does have a memory span of a goldfish (oh dear i cant say that or i would be insulting the fishes! :rolleyes:)

kotonoha still in denial and gets hooked up with taisuke...okey it was forced *sigh* she has been corrupted :(

the insert song + dance was beautiful...in a hellish way

oh how i love this series! :D 10/10

I second.

Makoto's went all h-mode on Sekai or tried to, but she put in place at the nick of time with her patented knee on the loins.:heh:

But wait, there's Otome that got the hots for Makoto and chose to give herself a little push to bring Makoto to the rest area.
And they went on with the nasty.

The guy's just a shameless pig even scanning Otome with his h-vision and musing that she's hot as well.

Then Sekai doesn't help the situation by latching onto Makoto and declaring all four winds before the whole school that she's his girlfriend and lover.

A poor Kotonoha is descending into pathetic lameness as her eyes lose their shine and turns into a monochromatic doll, and the four bitches keep pestering her that she and Makoto aren't lovers but Kotonoha persists.
Man when is that girl going to learn that Makoto chases after the big or cute boobies his eyes can pry on.

The one character that made sense was Kokoro's friend, Uzuki, who immediately figured out that Makoto was in a deadlock between two girls or quoting her a complex among couples how adult to put it.:heh: