Lucky Star - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Pellissier

2007-09-02, 03:06

Welcome to the discussion thread for Lucky Star, Episode 22.

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darksider

2007-09-02, 11:37

It's strangely quiet today...

Me? Yep, I have to wait for the broadcast here. Not everyone in Japan is in the Kanto region...

Sheba

2007-09-02, 12:15

Judging from the screencaps at 2chan,

Around the last minutes of this episode:

It looks like Kanata's ghost came to visit her family

bayoab

2007-09-02, 12:43

And it appears they are finally out of Shirashi endings. Maybe now we can get Tsukasa's va singing something. Although after this episode... who knows.

Luminisk

2007-09-02, 13:17

A lot of Kanata in the second half of the episode.
Shiraisshi is still here, Lucky Channel is still down for the count.

Nemo_N

2007-09-02, 13:17

Oh man, the Kanata section alone warrants a 10 for this one, but I'll wait for the subs just for justice's sake.

So very well done.

frustra

2007-09-02, 13:43

oh my... this is <3

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Lucky%20Star/Lucky%20Star%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2013.jpg

panzerfan

2007-09-02, 13:51

The moment when Sojiro reaffirms his love of his life, I was really touched. Kanata is just too cute.
She was really worried about the kind of things that her daughter are exposed to XD thanks to Sojiro.
Kind of funny how that Kanata's 'image' got captured on-camera and leaving the entire family in a panic fright.

Kojiro really reacted in a very humane and loving manner. Although I have to admit, Lucky Star suddenly takes on a more emotional twist.

I agree with kj about pre-CLANNAD. Notice the kind of treatment background wise that KyoAni reserved for the Izumi family.

kj1980

2007-09-02, 13:55

Kanata voiced by Shimamoto Sumi (Nausicaä, Clarisse d'Cagliostro, Otonashi Kyoko) warrants an 11/10 in itself. And the B part made me teary-eyed. I wonder if Kyo-Ani is pulling a pre-CLANNAD showcase with this part?

Nice puns:

Konata: "So when are they going to make the fourth anime installment of that series?"

www. Are you asking that question towards Kyo-Ani?

Kinny Riddle

2007-09-02, 14:25

Today's highlights:

- Kona-chan trying to ask Kagamin and Mi-wiki some questions. Normally this is expected, only that these questions were taken straight out of a quiz game Kona-chan has. :D

- Kona-chan deduces that Miyuki's "assets" was due to her sleeping early. After telling Yu-chan about it, Yu-chan in turn tells Minami-chan. As a result, Minami-chan is already asleep at nine at night. lol

- Yu-chan singing out loud as she listens to her music on her headphones (KAWAII~~ :love: :love: :love: ) And gets busted by Kona-chan for it. :D

- Kagamin does a lot of body language when she is on the phone, even though the other side can't see her doing it, Kona-chan duly pointed out. But she probably couldn't help herself, so I know how she feels. :D

- Kagamin chastises Misao for being childish for playing with her food. She then talks about how everyone used to play "Bread Factory" with their bread, and gets a stunned silence from Ayano and Misao. :heh:

- Misao calls Kagamin for something "important", but then totally forgot what it was after accidentally bumping into something.

- Tsukasa-chan feels sleepy, so decides to go to the bathroom and call it a day, but then finds she couldn't sleep.
- Tsukasa-chan doesn't feel like going to the bathroom, so decides to sleep while she's still feeling sleepy, but awakens completely the moment she tucks into the freesing blanket.

- Kagamin frantically finding all sorts of excuses to justify buying snacks to Kona-chan

- Yu-chan has troubles screwing a jar lid shut, so Kona-chan helps her out. But then Yu-chan finds out that Kona-chan may have screwed the lid too tight. lol

- Don't you just hate how they make these bags of crisps so damn hard to open. Though unlike Kona-chan's persistance, I usually just find the nearest scissors and cut the damn thing open.

- Kona-chan performing amazing acrobatics while trying to catch mosquitoes

Hirano Aya at her best while doing the above two sketches.

- Soujirou tells Kanata: "It's because you never went out with me that I ended up spending time with bishoujo games." Apparently, this moved Kanata to marry Soujirou in the end.

- Konata: Dad, if I were a boy, would you still hug me like you always used to?
Soujirou hesitates for a few seconds before answering: Of course!
LOL

- Poor Kanata must be disappointed that her daughter ended up with her mother's height and her father's interests. :D

- Previous eps have seen warming Kagamin and Tsukasa moments, this time it's Kona-chan's turn as Kanata returns from the beyond to see how her family is doing. Kanata is voiced by veteren seiyuu Shimamoto Sumi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumi_Shimamoto).

- Kanata decides to give Soujirou and Kona-chan a surprise by taking a photo with them. Though they mistook her presence as a haunted photo. lol

- Today's Hiyorin moment: Hiyorin struggles not to think dirty yuri thoughts of her friends again. :D

- Today's Lucky Channel: THERE IS NO LUCKY CHANNEL! LOL All we get is the carnage after the destruction last week. :heh: The crew realizes that the camera is still on and hastily turns it off.

- Today's Shiraishi ED: A mix of all of Shiraishi's previous songs, switched randomly by Fukuhara Kaori (Tsukasa) and Konno Hiromi (Akira) blowing their whistles. All in all, a silly ED, as usual.

A 10 from me, but easily more than that.

Decagon

2007-09-02, 15:02

I'm amazed at how well the second part flowed. Especially how naturally they blended the jokes and the emotional Kanata backstory. Kanata's part of the episode was really wow.

41nano

2007-09-02, 15:33

Kanata part was so well done, it's amazing, very sad/joyful moment for me.
I almost cryed :heh:
No Lucky Channel and best-of shiraishi....IT FEELS LIKE END T_T
Not like last week, but a very very good ep for me, lots of emotions, 10/10.

Kaioshin Sama

2007-09-02, 15:37

OH MY GOD! This episode looks awesome, I can almost give this one a 10/10 just by looking at the screenshots, I don't even need to see it. I mean it's not like there would be anything wrong with not seeing the episode for myself and giving it a 10, would there? Looks solid enough.

That's right the screenshots I've seen alone warrant a 10/10.

Now that I think of it, this episode seems to bear a startling resemblance to something that happened in Kodomo No Jikan. Although in the long run I think Kodomo No Jikan handled the situation better and evoked more . We'll have to see if that comes up in the anime version of that series, so others can see what I mean. Kodomo No Jikan handled the situation extremely well I think. It's something that seems to be coming up a lot lately.

Outside of that, if people enjoy this episode I'd also recommend Kodomo No Jikan to them. If Vexx is here he can vouch for this as well. I think he knows what I'm getting at.

takumi2k4

2007-09-02, 15:48

OMFG, 10 more minutes????!!!!

Damn you slow internets!!!!

I can't wait for this episode, I saw the screenshots over at RC and holy **** this is gonna be so awesome!!!

z3phyr.mp3

2007-09-02, 15:51

what a great ep to start the week...
even though kanata only appeared in this ep i felt that i have already known her character...
the up in animation quality also helped...

Kaoru Chujo

2007-09-02, 17:11

The first thing I want to mention is Shimamoto Sumi as Kanata. Beautiful, beautiful voice. That whole part when she was a ghostly presence in the room with Konata and Soujirou, along with the flashbacks, was quite moving. Like 41nano, I almost cried. Shimamoto-san also plays William Jones's mother Aurelia in Emma II. She's 52.

The scene of Yu-chan humming along to her earphones was like a definition of moe. Kawaiiiii.

As a big fan of Marimite, I couldn't help loving the very brief Sachiko-Yumi scarf-tying scene -- and of course poor Hiyori's contradictory reactions.

I enjoyed the scenery in the ED -- the beautiful mountains and the beautiful humans.

Nice review by Kinny Riddle.

Only two more episodes.... The next episode (23) is partly written by Yamamoto Yutaka, the original director who was "fired."

Wavedash

2007-09-02, 17:50

Perhaps I'm in that sort of mood today, but I cried. Really did.

Vexx

2007-09-02, 18:15

... .... ... this episode is going to kick some emotional heart strings.... looks like a winner from the screen caps.

Shiroth

2007-09-02, 18:41

Perhaps I'm in that sort of mood today, but I cried. Really did.
Well if it helps, i cried my heart about. The production by Kyoani makes this episode a huge winner.

Meophist

2007-09-02, 18:51

The first thing I want to mention is Shimamoto Sumi as Konata.I'm just going to assume that you know the difference between Konata and Kanata.

takumi2k4

2007-09-02, 19:47

Kaioshin Sama

2007-09-02, 20:21

I almost cried manly tears when Kanata appeared!

*sniff*

I can't wait to see the subs tomorrow, I may need some buckets or something.

Can we also get a higher rating for this ep specifically?

I think a 100/10 should suffice.

Probably not, if you go around giving extra options to one episode of a single series, you'd have to give them every series, unless it's Shuffle Memories Final Episode with the 11/10 FANSERVICE! option. (sigh...I should probably put in here that I know he's joking, I'm not as stiff as people think I am. Kills half the fun in playing along, that I feel the need to do this though).

I kind of see your point a little though, this episode does certainly seem like it's a standout one, but since most episodes are more or less skewed to the 10 rating right now it's kind of hard to factor this one in as special. I guess it's just kind of going to have to be that way though.

And if you want to see some manly tears, get me in front of a screen and play the ending to Shawshank Redemption. Those are manly tears. Something about people reuniting after a long time always seems to get to me, it's good to see people pick up on old friendships. I just experienced such a thing myself and it was fun.

takumi2k4

2007-09-02, 22:50

Heh, I was actually serious when I typed that!

But yeah, I agree that it would be unfair to the other episodes, but if anything, I'm not afraid to call this as the best episode of Lucky Star EVER. Not even Kagamin's false confession can beat this.

But don't hold me on that yet, who knows what'll come up in the final two episodes.

aldw

2007-09-02, 22:54

If this episode had shown up before Kanata's vote in Saimoe, it would have been great.

krln99

2007-09-03, 00:22

This was like the last ep, an underwhelming first half followed by a stellar 2nd half. The 2nd half really reminded me of a lot of "jun ai" Japanese movies like "Sekai no Chuushin de...," "Ima Ai ni Yukimasu," "Taiyou no Uta," etc.

I think there would be a big demand for a L*S prequel based on Konata's parents if they decided to do one. It would be great if they did it.

kenjiharima

2007-09-03, 07:43

ohh GOOD GOD!!! Kanata's ghost! :love:

Saw the raws and seeing Kanata and how Izumi-jiji and her got together moved me. Probably one of the best ep. Ending to be my most fav since it's all about family and baby Kona-chan is too cute FTW. Extremely Great character development with the father daughter combo of the Izumi's. and YEY!!! No Lucky Channel! Thanks to Burning Minoru. Maybe they'll be back in ep.23? Maybe...

As for the others...well they make L*S what L*S is at it's best. :D

Pracharat

2007-09-03, 08:48

The best episode so far.

servidor

2007-09-03, 10:41

isteb-isteb

2007-09-03, 10:52

haven't seen it yet, only the scans. can't wait for subs. i'm reading suzuka right now so i'm feeling very emo and thus i will give anything emo a perfect 10 at this point.

that, and the fact that i'm in love with lucky star.

angel_wing0

2007-09-03, 11:26

one of the best eps so far, thou i dont think i can call it the best till i watched the chinese subs...and damn they are taking so long @#^@(&^$97

takumi2k4

2007-09-03, 13:53

Soft-subs are out!

I cried manly tears today, the background music and that voice of Kanata was just beautiful.

Man, KyoAni definitely deserves a medal or something, they excel in any kind of genre they do. I daresay it, but I believe that this episode can stand up against Byousoku 5CM.

I'm ready to call Lucky Star as the best anime this year. It perfectly balances with comedy and seriousness while still appealing to it's viewers, this really has gotta be the best episode of Lucky Star.

But I wonder, did they explain in the manga or wherever how Kanata died? I know it's possible that the mother can die during child birth while still keeping the baby alive, but obviously, Kanata's alive after child birth. Is it some kind of after effect of pregnancy?

It would be more awesome if Kanata actually lived instead of dying, she's such a dynamic character, I'd love to see how she can keep up with Mr. Lolicon over there.

But yeah, best episode ever, deserves a 9999/10 IMO.

panzerfan

2007-09-03, 15:25

A rather morbid thought that I have gotten from watching this episode and reading the reviews is... what might befall Konata in her future if she is faced with losing her significant other while having mouths to feed?

Shiroth

2007-09-03, 15:44

Just watched it again with subs, absolutely lovely. Having something like this in Lucky Star makes it all the more special --- its just not something i expected, though something Kyoani could do, and did do nicely.

Loved it~

But I wonder, did they explain in the manga or wherever how Kanata died? I know it's possible that the mother can die during child birth while still keeping the baby alive, but obviously, Kanata's alive after child birth. Is it some kind of after effect of pregnancy?
It looks as though its what you've just said, though she died a few days after giving birth to Konata.

Also i must say, i can't wait for the BGM that was used in the 'back flash scene', so beautiful.

jaziek

2007-09-03, 16:01

hardsubs are out

Anh_Minh

2007-09-03, 16:17

The Kanata moments were very touching. It looks like poor Soujirou still misses her.

It's cute how Yui likes spending money on her younger relatives.

It's funny how alike Misao and Konata are.

Akira and Shiraishi are fired? Too bad.

Sheba

2007-09-03, 16:17

I would not go as far as calling L*S best anime of the year, the anime and 2007 AD being not over yet and we have yet to see how would it stand a second viewing like two years later; and there are Clannad that is around the corner ;p

But I sure got a lot of good moments while watching it.

The emotional moment with Kanata's mom remind us that KyoAni IS the studio that delivered very good drama with Sousuke struggling between his duty and sentiments in Second Raid, and tear-jerking moments in Air and Kanon 2006.

Midonin

2007-09-03, 16:52

"You fail at life either way." Amazing that an episode can have that and Kanata's sweet visit. It was beautiful. A great episode all around, nothing more needs to be said. Or it's all been said already. Loved the Shirashi medley at the end as well.

•••Shadow•••

2007-09-03, 16:59

Hmmm.. I thought they
would see Kanata
But it was funny anyway lol.... 10/10 ........ 2 eps left :(

Sheba

2007-09-03, 17:03

As one who have browsed the scanlations then the raws, I was anticipating the appearance of Kanata, especially her visit.
They handled it very well. Unlike the Hiiragi sisters 'drama' or Kagamin's true-fake/fake-true "date", the change in tone did not feel out of place. And way more than cheap sobs and tears as anyone would fear, it gave a deeper insight in Konata's and Sou-kun's relationship as daughter and father.

I was amused by the scenes before, like Misao, I am one who tend to forget what I want to tell to people, shame. Yutaka listening her walkman is "moé", Misao's voice is a pleasure to hear. But, the Kanata's ghostly visit just made me forget those scenes.

Just like I said earlier, it reminds me that it is the KyoAni that left my heart in a mess when Sousuke was the shadow of himself when struck by his inner conflict, when Misuzu met the fate we know, and the sadder portion of Makoto's, Mai's and Shiori's arcs.

panzerfan

2007-09-03, 17:13

KyoAni uses subtlety well. Their handling of flashback prove potent. The studio knows which moments to capture regarding these emotional scenes. Be it in AIR and Kanon... now that Sheba mentioned it, I start to recall all those heart struck moments. I would expect them to deliver poignant depictions when CLANNAD comes.

Calawain

2007-09-03, 18:08

Very unexpected but good episode.

The animation quality was solid, especially in the second part with Kanata's scenes. I'll also echo the sentiments that Kanata's seiyu was amazing, I really liked her voice. It was soft, clear, and pleasing to listen too, even when she was acting surprised at the discussion of ero games between father and daughter.

-As for the funnier parts, the FMP/KyoAni joke about making a fourth series was good, there are legions of otakus who would love to see that despite its low level of likelihood.

-Sou-kun saying that he is also a lolicon along with Kona-chan's response that he loses at life either was great.

-Misao's cuteness overload once again stole her scene's with the Pocky and forgetting what she was calling about, I do that sometimes unfortunately!

-I also enjoyed the mega-kawaii Yu-chan music scene, as others have said.

-The random Marimite themed yuri at the very end was a bit out of place, but I can see why they might have wanted to end the show on a funnier note instead of the previous scene.

Finally, anyone else agree that death by moe would definitely be the way to go? ;x

Kyuusai

2007-09-03, 18:29

The episode got off to a rocky start as not only was the timing at its worst, but they were even inconsistent with their time-progression motifs. I started to warm up to it as the jokes got better (and we got to hear the great ad-libbing and delivery for Tsukasa--kawaii!), and then... Oh, and then!!

The B part just flowed. I've complained before when Lucky Star tried to take turns to be dramatic or tug at heartstrings, because its presentation outside of those scenes did nothing to build up to them. This, on the other hand, was entirely successful. It didn't break the Lucky Star style, it simply looked deeper into things we already knew about the characters, and the scene was strong enough and complete enough to stand entirely on its own. I still wish the rest of the series had done more to prepare the audience for something like this, but it works well enough, anyway.

As always, Soujirou's relationship with Konata and his disturbing amount of clarity in understanding his interests and relationships is amusing even without any jokes. Shimamoto Sumi was the perfect choice for Kanata, as well; I always admire her delivery, and it usually feels like a breath of fresh air--doubly so here. Her sudden burst of a reference line at the end of the preview made me burst out laughing, too. Especially after her demure but sharp disappointment in Soujirou's reference. :D

I want to gush more about this, but I think I'd best wait until I can collect my thoughts on it. For now I'll just settle on concluding that it was marvelous. :)

margafred

2007-09-03, 18:38

What i like about this episode
- Yutaka's "awwww" when Konata gives a comment about how she always had enough sleep but still no improvement on her physical appearance.
- Kagami's tsundereness during her scenes with Misao and Ayano,also when she walks together with Konata while holding a bread..i just can't get enough of it.

But the best part about this episode will be >>

[Oh man, the Kanata section alone warrants a 10 for this one,
Kanata voiced by Shimamoto Sumi (Nausicaä, Clarisse d'Cagliostro, Otonashi Kyoko) warrants an 11/10 in itself. And the B part made me teary-eyed. I wonder if Kyo-Ani is pulling a pre-CLANNAD showcase with this part?

I'm amazed at how well the second part flowed. Especially how naturally they blended the jokes and the emotional Kanata backstory. Kanata's part of the episode was really wow.
Kanata part was so well done, it's amazing, very sad/joyful moment for me.
I almost cryed :heh:
Not like last week, but a very very good ep for me, lots of emotions, 10/10.
Well if it helps, i cried my heart about. The production by Kyoani makes this episode a huge winner.
I almost cried manly tears when Kanata appeared!

*sniff*

I can't wait to see the subs tomorrow, I may need some buckets or something.

Can we also get a higher rating for this ep specifically?

I think a 100/10 should suffice.
I can't agree more...10/10 is a must for this epic episode...the moment Kanata came into their house,and the sad BGM played to match the scenes,i can't hold my tears..the best scenes to me >> when Soujiro admit his love for Kanata,followed by a flashback between Soujiro and Kanata together,matched with that beuatiful BGM...

And first time i feel that Konata's smile during the last photo shot was cute and sweet...although she do smiles during the other episodes,but i dunno why,for this episode,during the last photo shot,her smile is different..sweeeter than before,and make her face looks prettier and more like Kanata.

Seriously,the best episode ever...no doubt about that.KyoAni deserves a praise for a well done job,bringing the mood of the story so well..

Omfgbbqwtf

2007-09-03, 18:45

Sniffle~~ Such a nice episode. I love the sudden change of atmosphere. A 10 from me once again. Just two more episodes.. kind of sad

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-03, 18:46

Wow... simply wow...

Look, I'm not the type of guy to be moved by just anything, and in fact it's very rare for me to even get emotional about whatever... But the second section of this episode simply did it. What's funny is that I had been wondering if they'd ever have a little dive on Konata's lack of motherly presence, and I think they did it marvelously in this episode. Not only that, but

Konata's visit was something I really wasn't expecting. It only added to the already-dramatic situation, since we're hearing and really getting a glimpse of her for the first time in the whole series and we haven't had a lot of airtime on this topic.

Personally, I had to watch it in parts, because I just wouldn't be able to take it in one shot without shedding a tear or two. The way they conducted the whole scene was really well done, not drifting away from the comic/gag style that L*S is known for, but also becoming serious when the situation needed it. Honestly, I don't have a lot of words to describe the feeling, but right now I'm actually somewhat depressed.

It's amazing what Anime can do, right?

Kaoru Chujo

2007-09-03, 18:48

...I daresay it, but I believe that this episode can stand up against Byousoku 5CM....I loved all of this ep, especially the Kanata part, but let's not go too far here. Byousoku 5cm is a religious experience.

Guerrand is spoiling me. I've even given up bothering with the Chinese subs, since they come out only a few hours ahead of the English now. Thanks, Guerrand.

Kaioshin Sama

2007-09-03, 19:16

Major1138

2007-09-03, 19:28

Yes clearly Clannad and Lucky Star are the only possible contenders for the best anime of 2007.:rolleyes:

Well, I suppose you could interpret it that way, but I just figured he meant that Lucky Star might not even be Kyoto Animation's best series for 2007, never mind best of the year. To be honest, I'd have to guess that Kyoto Animation will take Clannad much more "seriously" than Lucky Star.

Lucky Star is a fine series, and I enjoy the over-the-top self-referential humor, but it's hard to deny that the series has a lot of "wink wink nudge nudge" in it, which doesn't go over well with everyone (as the fact that we're even having this discussion would suggest). It also doesn't help that I sometimes think that Kyoto Animation gets both something of a pass from their fans and extra scrutiny from their detractors due to their relatively rapid ascent in popularity.

Clannad will probably get treated much like Kanon did, with much more fidelity to its source material, and assuming the series isn't total crap to begin with, will probably go over much better with a broader audience.

As for the episode itself, the first half was pretty good, but the second part, with Kanata was spot-on. Those bastards at Kyoto Animation sure know how to tug at the heartstrings...

wana10

2007-09-03, 19:31

call me a softy but i loved the whole kanata scene. soujiro's line about him loving her more than anyone else was perfect. and the ring problem at the lake, and the ending capped it off in a nice way.

Steg

2007-09-03, 19:34

Oh wow...

I'm a little embarrassed to admit it, but I haven't cried like that in years. I never would have expected this from Lucky Star! I mean the first half was typical LS pace and premise, but the second the Kanata scene began it took a dramatic turn. By the time the flashback rolled around I couldn't even contain it. Kanata was such a great, thoughful character too. She probably won't appear again but I'm glad she did. If only she wasn't just a ghost...

I'm not really a dramatic or emotional person, but this really touched a nerve for me. Very, very few things can ever do that. For that I give this episode a 10/10

himemiya613

2007-09-03, 19:41

this episode made me quite emotional O_O i didnt expect it from an anime like this

Kaoru Chujo

2007-09-03, 19:42

Lol. We can depend on Kaioshin to catch any KyoAni-worship that may show up. I thought that what Sheba was saying was that he/she thought it was the best so far, but didn't know if anything better might show up, and just mentioned Clannad as one obvious possibility. Obvious to someone who admires KyoAni, anyway, lol.

I think it's tough to say which anime is the best of a year, since we all like different things. I don't enjoy Gurren-Laggan, but I recognize its excellence. Claymore is another candidate, once again in a genre that isn't my favorite. For me, the top anime of the year is Byousoku 5cm, if movie-length counts. Lucky Star, though, probably comes second. I am a fan of KyoAni and a big fan of Hirano Aya, but I really did not expect this show to be as good as it is.

But nothing this year (except Byousoku) compares for me with the three masterpieces of April 2006: Simoun, NANA, and Suzumiya Haruhi.

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-03, 19:49

Phew... Just watched it a second time, and tears were this close from coming out. By the time the flowers started to appear, the scenes of Sojiro mourning over Kanata's death and her walk up the stairs... It was just, let's say... painful. Deeply painful. I felt it as hard as if someone in my own family had died, and I don't think that's a very healthy outcome. But anyway, when that song started to play and he stated the reason why she had chosen him, I shivered from top to bottom. The scenes that follow are also priceless.

Obviously I felt very offended by the way they ended that scene, with both Sojiro and Konata wanting to get rid of the picture Kanata was in. I would have definitely forgiven them if they went out of the usual L*S style and added a little more drama to it, with both realizing that maybe it was, indeed, her. But oh well.

And yes, I agree. Kanata would have, if not won, at least reached one of the highest positions in the Saimoe if it had aired a couple of weeks ago. However, I'm sure that next year, she will have a better standing. I will be one to vote for her, that's for sure.

DragoonKain3

2007-09-03, 19:57

Makes one really wonder, did Soujirou loved Kanata because he was a lolicon, or was he really a lolicon BECAUSE he loved Kanata? After all, he did say he only turned to gal-games because Kanata wouldn't bat an eyelash towards him. XD

And when Sou started to mention that Kona feels like Kana when he hugs her and thus makes his heart beat faster, that reminded me of Karekano where almost the exact thing happened lol.

The flashback scene was done wonderfully too IMO, with the music and all. Simply beautiful; I'm thankful for KyoAni for doing osana-najimi the justice it deserves. As someone who has childhood friends as his moe element, I'm truly happy.

EDIT
As for best anime of the year, while LS is good, it still can't quite reach up to Nodame Cantabile's level. Not by a long shot. I do recognize that 5cm was very well done, because of my moe tendencies, that movie left in a state of depression for a week lol (which just goes to show how well made it is). But even then, NC still takes the cake for me. Even Higurashi Kai/School days of this season doesn't touch it. However, it's still to early to tell, as fall season has a great lineup: Minami-ke (from the creator of Kyou no Go no Ni), Myself Yourself, Prism Ark, Dragonaut, Shana 2, Gundam 00 (hey don't laugh because I'm a mecha fan XD), Kimikiss, ef, Genshiken 2, DC 2, and Clannad are all shows that have potential that can top NC if done properly, and so are on my 'to watch' list.

takumi2k4

2007-09-03, 20:11

I can see why Clannad could be a top contender for the best anime of the year, but there's just one problem with it. It's from a game with different endings, if you look closely at the Kanon fanboys, there are still disputes about which ending was really canon or not.

That's my only problem with it, it won't appeal to everybody considering how many Clannad fanboys there are. They will obviously stick to the main arc, which is quite a bummer for some as evidenced by the various eroge adaptation's made.

I really don't understand what's so cool about Gurren-Laggan. I've seen a few episodes of it, but it just drifted off my radar. Which is kinda surprising since I still watch Bleach and Naruto every week! I guess we all do have different tastes.

Lol, anime movie wise, obviously that honor belongs to Byousoku 5CM, no doubt about that, and yeah I do know that the Rebuild of EVA came out a while ago.

But anime series wise, I believe L*S has it already. Many of the anime's who tend to be dramatic rely on violence as an easy way to get it across it's viewers, but with Byousoku 5CM and this episode, violence was not necessary to be dramatic. That's a feat that I believe is pretty hard to accomplish. Even Haruhi had to rely on the violent Shinjin's as a way to resolve a conflict that Haruhi and Kyon was in. And that's coming from a massive Haruhi fanboy.

And I don't mean any offense to the various folks who admire Kanon and Clannad...

margafred

2007-09-03, 20:16

And yes, I agree. Kanata would have, if not won, at least reached one of the highest positions in the Saimoe if it had aired a couple of weeks ago. However, I'm sure that next year, she will have a better standing. I will be one to vote for her, that's for sure.
Let's just pray KyoAni gonna make a second season or an OVA for it,then only we could nominate Kanata and vote again for Lucky Star characters on the next Saimoe 2008...

Makes one really wonder, did Soujirou loved Kanata because he was a lolicon, or was he really a lolicon BECAUSE he loved Kanata? After all, he did say he only turned to gal-games because Kanata wouldn't bat an eyelash towards him. XD

Like Soujiro had said "i'm also lolicon"..coz he love both lolis and normal people..

But that would explain a bit of why Soujirou love Kanata..since Kanata possesing both factors,for being normal person (in terms of age) and for being a loli (in terms of her appearance)..

Vestus

2007-09-03, 20:27

http://xs219.xs.to/xs219/07361/ls22-kanatasig2.gif
She gives me hope that a loser like me will get a cute quiet girl like her. :D

darksider

2007-09-03, 20:30

Well, I've watched and, wow, this episode is extremely hard to rate.
When I first saw the title for this episode I thought
it would be either a true work of art or a miserable disaster,
But I now realized this assumption was not really right...

The quality of pictures is just average I'd expect from the series (and thus probably ep 21 was better) and while the first half of the episode was as good as ever, I feel the interaction between characters are somewhat less lively and even less organized than most recent episodes - maybe because they have fired Shiraishi?

And, about the scene of the second half, I can see they tried to be just faithful to the original episode from the manga, which is a real masterpiece by its own, but honestly I expected more than that.
In that regard it was undoubtfully way better than Master Keaton or Gedo Senki, but anyway...
Was that really your best, Takemoto and Gatou?
Though, at the same time, I know this is another low-budget anime and if I think that way it was way more than an excellent adaptation. Umm, but still...

Well now, on the other hand, now I don't think I need to tell how excellent the Kanata scene was, since everyone's saying it already.

All in all my rating is 9.4/10 (rounded to 9) - more than excellent but still not perfect, no more, no less.
And I actually prefer the episode 12 for its singularity.
My opinion here is that it's really one great episode but the borrowed magnificence must not justify the works' own flaws, though it may be able to fill the gap to some extent.

I think Shimamoto was not that outstanding in the show, but I think that's because every VA in the show is so capable, not that she was bad at the role.

Wow, even Misao knows some difficult wording, though it doesn't defy the fact she isn't so smart...
But, let Ayano say something! She's got even fewer lines than the one who really isn't!

Mojipittan, cute and good song indeed, but is that a kind of song Yutaka will so eagerly listen to? Maybe she's really influenced by Konata.
And - Pittan ranra mojipittan! - her lyrics are slightly incorect! lol

"Talking of Mom, she's short, and is a friend of yours from childhood, so she's like a character from some gal-game, isn't she?"
"See? She was so cute since our childfood you know..."
Soujirou, at least you should try to deny what Konata says!!!

"I had once told her like, "Because you'd never cared for me I have grown to love these gal-games!" and she married me quite easily."
"Father, you are a real sucker!"
"But it's the true story."
Man, he's so cool. Whether it good or bad I don't know!

"But she was really keen, so probably she'd spotted the only but absolute thing where this sucker is totally confident."
Another line from Soujirou, and the following scene is a memorable one.

The next episode preview - Wow, was that okay? I know they were her own lines, yes, but..?

And last of all, let me say this: Pity that no one here praises Yoshimizu himself!

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-03, 20:39

Makes one really wonder, did Soujirou loved Kanata because he was a lolicon, or was he really a lolicon BECAUSE he loved Kanata? After all, he did say he only turned to gal-games because Kanata wouldn't bat an eyelash towards him. XD

Yeah, I guess that's a good question. But judging by the fact that he was probably an otaku even before developing passionate feelings for Kanata ( Who knows, though ), I'd say that he was a lolicon from the beginning. And who knows, those might not even be the reasons why he fell in love with her. After all, after this episode and getting a glimpse of her caring, easygoing and lovely personality, I wouldn't know why any other guy wouldn't fall for her.

She gives me hope that a loser like me will get a cute quiet girl like her.

I guess that's one of the factors that contribute to my short-lived depression at the moment. It would certainly be great to find someone like her, but I gave up on finding cute, anime-like-kawaii-caring women around me. Maybe if I move to a place where those traits are common, but definitely not around here. And don't let this comment start a discussion, I just wanted to point it out.

I'm uploading that scene on Youtube. I'll post it in a few minutes.

Edit:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ev0DtTTsxF8

Here. Now I can watch it anywhere I go.

Calawain

2007-09-03, 20:50

Is Mojipittan some sort of pop song? I am hardly up on Japanese music aside from anime OSTs.

Vestus

2007-09-03, 21:05

I guess that's one of the factors that contribute to my short-lived depression at the moment. It would certainly be great to find someone like her, but I gave up on finding cute, anime-like-kawaii-caring women around me. Maybe if I move to a place where those traits are common, but definitely not around here. And don't let this comment start a discussion, I just wanted to point it out.

I'm uploading that scene on Youtube. I'll post it in a few minutes.

Edit:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ev0DtTTsxF8

Here. Now I can watch it anywhere I go.
Yeah, my dream is hopeless I guess. Now IM depressed.

I agree with your sig's bold text at the bottom.

darksider

2007-09-03, 21:08

It could go to the 'cultural reference' corner but anyway

The mojipittan song - it's the theme song for the Japanese video game 'Kotoba no Puzzle Mojipittan' and its actual title is 'Futari no Mojipittan'.

The game is from Namco and very popular in Japan, but as you can see it's hardly ever known outside Japan due to its nature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojipittan

You can download these songs in (the older versions of) the game directly from the official website here:
http://namco-ch.net/mojipittan/extra/download/index.php

Personally I prefer the PS2 version to later versions.

Be warned that this song can be very addictive.

EDIT: oh, and I think the game has already appeared in the ep 10.

Seditary

2007-09-03, 21:18

My favourite part of the ep has to be the preview with Soujirou and Kanata, that was perfect, gave me one of the best laughs of the whole series so far.

Which was just what I needed after crying earlier.

nadare

2007-09-03, 21:39

Kaoru Chujo

2007-09-03, 22:13

...Was that really your best, Takemoto and Gatou?....And last of all, let me say this: Pity that no one here praises Yoshimizu himself!Thanks for mentioning Gatou, whom I wasn't aware of, thus giving me a chance to find out more. Gatou Shouji (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=55641) did write this episode (as well as writing TSR and Fumoffu, and eps 5 and 12 of LS), but I'd also like to mention Takao Touko (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=38647), who both storyboarded and directed this episode. She also directed eps 2, 8 and 15, and ep17 of Kanon, but only did key animation on SHnY, so perhaps she is someone on her way up (like Yamakan is or was?). I think of the storyboard as really important: the point where the script becomes an anime. But perhaps the script is more detailed than I think.

I should add that these people's work on this ep seems pretty fine to me.

Your point about praising Yoshimizu is a great one. Good thing you're doing it yourself. Vexx and other comic-readers have emphasized how good the original is, but it's hard for those of us who aren't reading it to say much in that regard.

DragoonKain3

2007-09-03, 22:17

And hate to rain on the parade even more on some of you guys, but from what little has been said so far, the main (or maybe only?) reason Kanata stuck with Soujirou is essentially because they were osana-najimi. Otherwise, why would Kanata care if Sou became an eroge player because she didn't look at him before? He basically guilt tripped her lol.

So in essence, the stars were all aligned for Soujirou to end up with Kanata. Kanata was able to look past his Otaku-ness because they were good friends who grew up with each other; otherwise, I find it hard to believe she would even care about him because otaku AND lolicon (though there's the chicken and egg question) carries such a negative stigma with it that I find it hard to believe she can look past that. More probably than not, she'll be creeped out rather than flattered knowing such a guy loves her the most in the world. In other words, he's one lucky SOB.

Maybe that's the main reason why I'm so into osana-najimi couples; they have nothing to hide with each other, and they can accept the other for who they really are, strengths, faults and all of those.

Vestus

2007-09-03, 22:30

angel_wing0

2007-09-03, 22:39

one of the best eps so far, thou i dont think i can call it the best till i watched the chinese subs...and damn they are taking so long @#^@(&^$97

i just watched the chinese subs, and i have to say this is the BEST ep so far in the series, bar none. And yes tears were flowing in my eyes when soujirou mentioned that "there is one area i have absolute confident with" and the reflashes to the beach scene with kanata. The BGM almost killed me.

It is VERY VERY sad that there are only 2 eps left...

mou whats the english subber doing..so slow. No the OTHER one.

DragoonKain3

2007-09-03, 23:20

I don't see how that rains on my parade...
Basically, the only reason why Soujirou hooked up with Kanata was because he was very good friends since childhood (or at least a very long time) with Kanata. Considering the way most children of English speaking countries are brought up (yours truly included), vast majority of people I know don't have such a person. Most of us were stuck in the boy vs girl gender division (or war is a lot of cases) at that age lol.

So I don't see how Soujirou is a beacon of light for some of us. He's born into a circumstance that is very rare with the English speaking community (heck, I don't think it's even that common in Japan). And because its that particular circumstance that made him succeed is the circumstance most of us lack, how can he be a ray of hope?

If any person should be a beacon of hope, it should be the Densha Otoko, yes. But God knows how I hated that show because of its cheeziness, and that's saying something since I can stand a lot of cheddar. XD

Anyway, couldn't Kanata be lucky too? I mean from my biased point of view, she was lucky to find a nice guy since she's seems to be shy and her bust size isn't all that big. From my experience, shy/quiet girls seem the most likely to find the abusive relationships.
I guess it's all who we grew up with. Quite a number of people I know in high school much prefer petite girls, and some people liked the shy/quiet type (I'm the opposite on both accounts), and they didn't seem all that bad with their gfs. Of course I've become distant with them past high school, so who knows if they actually became abusive lol. XD

Psycho Power J

2007-09-03, 23:55

Today's highlights:
- Don't you just hate how they make these bags of crisps so damn hard to open. Though unlike Kona-chan's persistance, I usually just find the nearest scissors and cut the damn thing open.
Never give up, never surrender! :frustrated: Of course, for the hard-to-open bag, they tend to explode once you do get them open and spill everything on the floor. :heh:

I can only imagine what Bread Factory's like. I'm with Misao and Ayano on this one. Anyone know about it? :confused:

Kanata section has the best blend of emotional and funny in the series, and just simply the best emotional scene in the entire series. I think this might make it tie with or even beat Episode 12 as my favorite episode.

DragoonKain3

2007-09-04, 00:07

Oh yeah, that reminds me; I'm TERRIBLE at opening bags of chips. It's not that I can't open them; its that when I open them, I make it explode everytime unless I get someone else to open it for me.

Must be the reason why I switched to things like Pringles before I quit chips altogether (I'm now into pudding/jello for snacks).

Heck, I'm terrible at opening anything in a bag/packaging period, if my troubles over booster draft in Magic:The Gathering is of any indication. Not one, but three lol XD

ReddyRedWolf

2007-09-04, 00:58

I can only imagine what Bread Factory's like. I'm with Misao and Ayano on this one. Anyone know about it? :confused:

I thnk Kagami may be playing or pretending to be a baker.

Remember one of the speculations on Konata's job? She and Tsukasa thought about bread factory or a bakery or a pastry shop.

But it doesn't fit Konata. So they crossed it out.

Guess I can relate cause I can bake. :heh:

Sheba

2007-09-04, 02:44

There are a lot more shows out there that I think can be considered contenders than just these 2. Besides one hasn't even aired.

Kanon 2006 may be the best on its genre, but from an external point of view, it relied too much on "miracles" to solve things at the end.

Death Note is an excellent thriller anime, but it relied too much on "JUST AS PLANNED" gimmick especially in the second part.

Code Geass may be hailed as best in its genre as masterfully written, etc... But the amount of things that "conveniently" happened are not my ideal of masterful writing (the Euphemia and malfuncting Geass one comes to mind).

All of the three resorted to tricks that made the plot flow... in a "forced" and "artificial" way.

They may be the best in their respective genre, but not certainly The Best of whatever year.

As for best of 2007, I've yet to see the Anime Jesus of 2007 but Seirei no Moribito is a very strong candidate.

PS: Btw, I showed the mentionned anime to a friend who is a hardcore cinephile (the kind to watch 1920s german expressionist movies, Hitchcock, Lynch and Tarantino), and studied cinema in uni. He is the one who pointed out the flaws he felt and saw as one who is not into animation as much as I do.

Now we can go back to mourn Kanata.

Crisu

2007-09-04, 03:40

I cried...

my goodness.. <3

And I thought nothing could top Kagamin's scene from ep21...

Saimoe needs to reopen the vote with Kanata in it...

Dop

2007-09-04, 05:48

Oh....

The Kanata sequence was absolutely wonderful and liable to be the thing I remember most fondly about this series. I only wish there'd been more of it. An entire episode, say, or maybe a 60 minute OVA.
It's the moment when the music swells and they launch into the flashback sequence. It's just so beautiful.

Wait, the rest of the episode?
Well, I was kind of expecting Konata to open that bag only to have the contents fly out over the room, but it was probably better that didn't happen as it would be too much of a cliche. I did love the Marimite reference at the end even if it was only in Hiyori's mind.

'Death by moe' - What a way to die!

Allamanda

2007-09-04, 06:26

Even I, being totally indifferent about Lucky Star, thought this episode would be moving when knowing the title of this episode and it was far better than expected. It was still just another soppy story, but it sticks with my heart for a week or so. Music-wise, it's also accomplished. Satoru Kousaki does a very good job here.

Btw, I may have to check the References List thread, but did anyone if they actually use "Matsuken Samba" (http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=5PdIrUfe4qo) in this series? I remember hearing the same melody somewhere...

Bondius

2007-09-04, 06:38

I never thought I'd see the day when I would actually shed a couple of tears while watching Lucky Star. I was very touched by the Kanata scene, it was just superb *sniff*

margafred

2007-09-04, 07:20

I think this isn't the first time Kanata visited Konata and Soujiro,just like what she had mention "It's been a while since i returned here"...her first visit was when Konata was still a small kid,probably a 1-2 years old kid as shown in the image below?

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4982/kanatahr9.jpg

Owh for the first time i saw Konata blushing herself,when she try to open the bag..damn moe..

Chi-no

2007-09-04, 08:03

Yes. I am touched by this esp about Konata's mother's return... but Am expecting this esp too somehow. Never expect the anime version to be out so soon.

This esp really touched me and made me laughed at the end when they found the shadow in the photo.... It was like Tears of laughter and Touching moments.... hehhe :D

But I like the background song when Konata ask her father about the reason her mother chose him... Very touching when he gave that answer and the song to that part too.... :)

MajideTime

2007-09-04, 08:16

I never, ever thought I'd tear up at Lucky Star, of all things, but that...was so sad. Sojiro is now officially my favourite Lucky Star character...but even outside of "that" scene, this ep was very strong. Shame L*S is ending so soon...

ZenithTheOne

2007-09-04, 08:23

I can't remember when an anime moved me to tears last time... Such a great episode over 9000/10 for me.

Psycho Power J

2007-09-04, 08:56

I love Tsukasa's light remote thingy. Somehow has more appeal than a clap-activated one. I only have my trusty stick to rely on.

sayuritokyo

2007-09-04, 09:19

I put a video of this part in my site,

http://techsuki.net/2007/09/04/luckystar-kanata/

Tsukiyoshi

2007-09-04, 10:07

I love Tsukasa's light remote thingy. Somehow has more appeal than a clap-activated one. I only have my trusty stick to rely on.

Technology has come a long way, I bet people back then had a hard time living without the stick...

anyways...

awesome episode esp when Kanata returned
bgm + animation + touching story = best episode ever

I said that the last episode was the best but its possible to have two bests, no? >.<

Lucky Star is getting exponentially better as it comes to a close...

Proto

2007-09-04, 10:22

Nice episode, it made me wonder, I know that Konata and her mom don't share the same name, but close to it, but do Japanese people have the custon of name their childs after one of the parents like in the West?

It is sort of illegal for a kid to have the exact same name as his parents (don't ask me why though, I was told so by my Japanese teachers) but apparently it is not so uncommon for a father/mother to give on of his name's kanji to his offspring, so parents and sons tend to have similar, albeit different names (in my teacher's case: Yuji - Kaiji etc.). In konata's and Kanata's case their name is written in same Hiragana so a different rule may apply, or it may be the same custom of family having similar name's. I think kj might be able to give you more info.

On the topic of Lucky Star being anime of the year, I beg to differ a little. There is a difference between being good, being very good, being excellent, being a masterpiece, and being like Seirei no Moribito, if you know what I mean :p

Mephisto2k

2007-09-04, 10:34

Sure thing lucky star was alright the funny and slice-of-life way that it was, but with the ghost story KyoAni brought even deep meaning and tears into the story which wasnt really necessary but it defenitly was good and it reminded me of kanon.

htsuji

2007-09-04, 10:55

otherwise, I find it hard to believe she would even care about him because otaku AND lolicon (though there's the chicken and egg question) carries such a negative stigma with it that I find it hard to believe she can look past that. More probably than not, she'll be creeped out rather than flattered knowing such a guy loves her the most in the world. In other words, he's one lucky SOB.
Partly agree. But, I have a feeling that if he had never met her, he wouldn't have become lolicon :) This is another chicken and egg question, though.

frustra

2007-09-04, 11:55

amazing episode. this one moved me as well. the background music during the Kanata scenes were sublime. two more episodes to go, if i'm not mistaken, and let's just hope KyoAni delivers a great ending (like Azumanga Daioh) in this kind of genre, but i think they would be hard-pressed to top this one. this episode just came out of nowhere... and struck many of us so well...

othic

2007-09-04, 12:11

i'm gonna be sad when this series ends :(

this was such a good episode that came out of nowhere

Princess_of_Hell

2007-09-04, 12:24

What anime is Kagami talking about, the one that she has the lite novel to and that has already been made into an anime three times and being made into a fourth one? Is there really going to be a FMP 4?

kenjiharima

2007-09-04, 12:38

maybe FMP Sigma what she's talking about...

But anyways Kanta ruled this ep. She owns all the girls even the moms. LOL :heh:

Princess_of_Hell

2007-09-04, 13:03

maybe FMP Sigma what she's talking about...

But anyways Kanta ruled this ep. She owns all the girls even the moms. LOL :heh:

I didn't know there was gonna be a fourth one.

I enjoyed the part with Konata's mom. It was so sad too. :(:(:upset:

Jaden

2007-09-04, 13:55

Since Konata's 18 years old now and the time in the anime is quite close to ours currently, that means Konata's dad was hooked up to bishoujo games ever since the late 80's? That's strange, since while otaku were present at the time, the concept for bishoujo games formed around 1992. :P

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-04, 14:14

Well, considering that the anime's world is pretty up-to-date with the current releases ( I.e.: Code Geass, FMP! TSR and Sigma ), I'd say they try to create a "As it happens" type of world. It's probably late august/september as of episode 22, but don't quote me on that. That being said, Konata is 18, so she was probably born in 1989/1990 at the latest. As I agree that having bishoujo games at that time was probably unfeasible, I bet eroManga and dojinshi were already all over the place.

And in Episode 22, there's a scene showing Soujirou working on a laptop while Kanata brings him some tea and a few onigiri. Laptops weren't invented at the time too, probably, so I'd guess they are more concerned with giving the viewer a pleasant experience than being always 100% historically correct.

On a side note, I just realized that Soujirou's line: "Hey, Konata, don't die before me, okay?" has a pretty deep and depressing meaning. Of course, he's always lively and rarely seems down, but I guess he himself feels that he was left behind by Kanata. Being an otaku myself, I guess that finding that special person to love means going to the gates of hell for her if you need to. And also there were never any mentions of him having a girlfriend or anything of the sort, which definitely puts Soujirou in a special place inside my "respectable character" list. But I digress, I think.

One thing I have to say is that I would definitely love if they had realized who it was in that picture - not simply another "ghost picture", and hang it along the other treasured family photos. But after KyoAni dealed such a painful blow to the heart of L*S fans, I don't think they'd go that far. I only hope there'll be another scene like this in the future.

Meophist

2007-09-04, 14:22

And in Episode 22, there's a scene showing Soujirou working on a laptop while Kanata brings him some tea and a few onigiri. Laptops weren't invented at the time too, probably, so I'd guess they are more concerned with giving the viewer a pleasant experience than being always 100% historically correct.I remember having a laptop-like device quite a long time ago which my parents called a ワードプロ. It had a screen and I think one can save a document. That might have existed back then. It also had a printer if I remeber correctly.

Hazelshock

2007-09-04, 14:27

One of the best episodes of this anime series i loved it almost made me cry would rate 1000000000000000/10 ^^

Vexx

2007-09-04, 14:52

I actually enjoyed the first part, the Kanata backstory, the third part, AND the L*C/ED segments. So I ticked this up to a "10" even though the pacing was odd.

Got a lot of luscious Kagami (love those stockings), a passel of Misao cuteness, huggable Nanako goofy, and the outstanding segment with Konata and her parents.

I'm insanely curious as to how they're going to bring the curtain down on this series at the end. I'm assuming it'll be another "day in the life of...." but the details make the difference...

On Soujirou's laptop in the flashback: I had my first laptop in 1986, Data General One (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_General-One) --- it was very expensive but I used it in my travels for the project I was on. My next laptop was a Toshiba, orange plasma screen in 1992. So... early 1990s? No problem for laptops.

Manga Girl

2007-09-04, 14:57

I loved it!
I'm still crying it was so emotional :( :upset:

Woland

2007-09-04, 15:03

On a side note, I just realized that Soujirou's line: "Hey, Konata, don't die before me, okay?"...

The same line, or something similar (I don't own a Japanese dubbed version so I can't really check). is a famous quote (if not the most famous) from Maison Ikkoku. Yeah the same, unforgettable, Maison Ikkoku in which the main heroine, Kyoko Otonashi, was voiced by Shimamoto Sumi (so yeah, as others said, the same for Kanata).
Coincidence? I'm thinking too hard? or it's just that after this episode my mood is a bit nostalgic...

Claymore_Obsessed

2007-09-04, 15:22

Ooh, another wonderful episode ^^

a nostalgic/romantic scene and a hilarous ed...
Minoru's performance is a masterpiece this time :D

kj1980

2007-09-04, 16:00

On Soujirou's laptop in the flashback: I had my first laptop in 1986, Data General One (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_General-One) --- it was very expensive but I used it in my travels for the project I was on. My next laptop was a Toshiba, orange plasma screen in 1992. So... early 1990s? No problem for laptops.

Unfortunately, the Japanese language uses kanji, hiragana, and katakana, so it wasn't simple to just type out letters like an English typewriter. The difficulty lay in the Japanese language in itself as one needed to change from hiragana-katakana-kanji at will. Therefore, most Japanese companies still relied on handwritten notes and memos until Toshiba introduced the first all-Japanese capable word-processor (wapuro) in 1978. Basically it's a typewriter with a monochrome display. No Windows or DOS, just a plain basic OS built by the manufacturer with very basic software (dictionary, word processor, fonts, calculator, save to floppy disks and the like). Little tweaks here and there, along with larger memory to store larger amounts of kanji and dictionary, as well as reduction in prices lead the wapuro to become a rather popular office tool in the Japanese office space from the mid 1980s.

As prices further dropped, Japanese authors and script writers began to adopt wapuro for their jobs.

Compared to a notebook PC, wapuro was much more cheaper, lighter, and more versatile. Higher-end models had a built in thermal printer which allowed people to create hagaki (postcards), but its price was still relatively much cheaper than the lowest-end laptops of that era.

By the mid-to-late 1990s, wapuro began to die out and began to be replaced with notebook PCs as they began to fall in price.
Here's a link with a picture of one of the very last wapuro ever made (Nov. 2000):

http://journal.mycom.co.jp/photo/articles/2006/02/20/rupo/images/002l.jpg
Which by this time, wapuro had internal modems and color LCD displays, e-mail and internet capability. For a few ten thousand yen more, one could buy a relatively cheap laptop which can do much more. Obviously sales of wapuro declined to a point where they ceased production altogether.

bayoab

2007-09-04, 16:08

In konata's and Kanata's case their name is written in same Hiragana so a different rule may apply, or it may be the same custom of family having similar name's. I think kj might be able to give you more info.
No. Konata and Kanata are different in hiragana. (こなた vs かなた) Konata's name is written entirely in hiragana, but normally the kanji would be 此方. Kanata is written as 彼方 in kanji.

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-04, 16:38

On Soujirou's laptop in the flashback: I had my first laptop in 1986, Data General One (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_General-One) --- it was very expensive but I used it in my travels for the project I was on. My next laptop was a Toshiba, orange plasma screen in 1992. So... early 1990s? No problem for laptops

Yeap, seems like I was a little off. After posting that comment, I went to Wikipedia to get a little lesson on the history of laptops and oops, there it was. However, I didn't really feel like coming back to edit my post as I'm working on a little vectoring now.

I'm insanely curious as to how they're going to bring the curtain down on this series at the end. I'm assuming it'll be another "day in the life of...." but the details make the difference...

Same with me. I don't think Lucky*Star deserves an ordinary ending, but knowing the pace of the series, it seems to me like that's the most probable outcome. Personally, I think it would be great to not follow the same path Azumanga Daioh/Manabi Straight! took, which is sending the girls off to wherever they think their future is stored. In Azumanga, that left me really depressed for a long time, because I felt like I was the only one "left behind". Yep, I'm that much of an otaku, but I bet others have shared the same experience.

Personally, I think the endings with Minoru are getting old - I mean, it's still really funny and he's an expert at making a fool out of himself, but they don't have that "ROFL" in them anymore. Love the "Sou-kun, there's turbulence and I can't fly!" line by Kanata, though.

Claymore_Obsessed

2007-09-04, 16:50

Same with me. I don't think Lucky*Star deserves an ordinary ending, but knowing the pace of the series, it seems to me like that's the most probable outcome. Personally, I think it would be great to not follow the same path Azumanga Daioh/Manabi Straight! took, which is sending the girls off to wherever they think their future is stored. In Azumanga, that left me really depressed for a long time, because I felt like I was the only one "left behind". Yep, I'm that much of an otaku, but I bet others have shared the same experience.

Personally, I think the endings with Minoru are getting old - I mean, it's still really funny and he's an expert at making a fool out of himself, but they don't have that "ROFL" in them anymore. Love the "Sou-kun, there's turbulence and I can't fly!" line by Kanata, though.

yes you aren't alone, I had that same exact feeling about Azumanga ending. It would be weird feeling that again for LS... KyoAni, please don't make us sad :heh:

well, Minoru's ed aren't unexpected as they were some time ago... but the megamix-medley was a huge ROTFL for me, one of his all-time best :D

Vexx

2007-09-04, 17:37

Same here.... it was like *I* was being left behind as the camera pulled away. Ouch.

@kj1980: I vaguely remembered the wapuro (several companies actually tried such things in the US as well in the early 90s) and I do remember it taking a while before the non-phonetic scripts were "solved" for such things. But 18 years ago (we're not sure how long Sou and Kanata were childless after marriage), laptops and a variety of related products were somewhat the rage and I figured Sou was an early adopter of geek toys anyway :)

narmi

2007-09-04, 18:13

Hmm, in my opinion I think Kanata and Soujirou were childless for about 5 years after they marriage. When you compare the events and images we were given (including Konata's age) they must have had Konata at around 1990 or 1991. The events that took place in Lucky are similar to the events that have happened recently (for example; Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu season 1 including the mini novels).

Episode 22 was great and because of the "elements" they used in this episode. I want to buy the DVDs for the series (not thinking about buying Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu season 1 for DVD heh). The scene where Kanata finally gets an appearance and scene was amazing and touching. At the end of the scene where Kanata's photo was taken with Konota and Souhirou was hilarious quote; "What's this shadowy image?!" "AHhh we have to burn it" hahaha. At least it there isn't otaku's doing a ceremony (one example is Ashita no Joe where Rikiishi dies during the match with Joe, source of an Ashita no Joe)

Anyway in my opinion if they did a season 2 of Lucky Star it wouldn't be as awesome as season 1 but heck it's better to have a bit more of Lucky Star.

Proto

2007-09-04, 18:35

No. Konata and Kanata are different in hiragana. (こなた vs かなた) Konata's name is written entirely in hiragana, but normally the kanji would be 此方. Kanata is written as 彼方 in kanji.

Uh... sorry. I meant that they were both written in hiragana, not that they used the same kannas. Blame the language barrier. ごめんね。

Ashlotte

2007-09-04, 19:02

Well that was an...odd episode. I can't really see what the point of putting such an emotional segment in the middle of an absurdest comedy like this.

They've done things similar to this and the segments in and of themselves I really adore, but they never really seem to fit very well in with the flow of the show in the least for me.

I want to say I really liked the episode, but I guess itd be more accurate to say I liked part of it with the sketches preceding it feeling completely out of place afterwards. Maybe its something how the shows been structured up to now with a very literal 4-koma feel with it being very obvious where the jokes start and stop.

Having the pacing all chopped up like that was fine but then to throw in random elements of actual story, plot, and character development feels almost alien...

Ah im rambling. I guess ill go with as separate entities I liked the kanata part and the "normal" L*S segments a great deal, but taken as a whole episode it felt like a failure of atmosphere and pacing. *shrug*

takumi2k4

2007-09-04, 19:22

I think I may have figured out Konata's birthdate year.

If you remember back in episode 12, Konata mentions that she attended the very last Comiket that was held in the previous location, Harumi.

Now according to this website: Click Here (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/matakimika/20040307)

The very last Comiket that was held in Harumi was in December 30, 1995. In the same episode(12), Konata said that she was 5 years old during the very last Comiket. It seems pretty weird though, if she was 5 years old during 1995, then she obviously wouldn't be 18 in 2007, that is, unless the current year in L*S is 2008.

Now assuming that the flashback scene was in chronological order, then we can assume that Kanata and Soujiro got married sometime after 1985, then I'm guessing a year later, Konata came and Kanata left.

If the wapuro really did become pretty affordable for writers in the mid 80's, then there's more proof I guess.

Steg

2007-09-04, 19:32

The very last Comiket that was held in Harumi was in December 30, 1995. In the same episode(12), Konata said that she was 5 years old during the very last Comiket. It seems pretty weird though, if she was 5 years old during 1995, then she obviously wouldn't be 18 in 2007, that is, unless the current year in L*S is 2008.

Well if you consider how fast time moves in Lucky Star (2 years in a five month running time) it seems pretty accurate to me.

Nenkitsune

2007-09-04, 20:03

yep, sounds about right to me as well.
T_T i didn't think lucky star of ALL shows would make me tear up haha.

narmi

2007-09-04, 20:14

yep, sounds about right to me as well.
T_T i didn't think lucky star of ALL shows would make me tear up haha.

Well I'm happy they did the scene with Kanata, Konata and Soujirou together. With that I was extremely statisfied with Lucky Star but I still want more hahaha. :)

Response to a previous post about the scene with Kanata's appearance.

Well in my opinion that scene was a good event to happen. They did have a few scenes where Kanata was the topic of the conversation (one example; when they were talking about the photo of Konata's mother and her appearance). At least they did a scene for Kanata because I was wonder what she was like. With that now we know how she was and why Souhirou and Kanata married each other and had Konata.

Maveric

2007-09-04, 22:00

I want a remote controlled light...

Kaoru Chujo

2007-09-04, 22:26

...It seems pretty weird though, if she was 5 years old during 1995, then she obviously wouldn't be 18 in 2007, that is, unless the current year in L*S is 2008....If she turned 6 in 1995, then she would turn 18 in 2007, wouldn't she? As long as her birthday is after Comiket, I think your timeline works.

Kempis Curious

2007-09-04, 23:34

I'm glad that Dad didn't remarry after his wife died, but instead focused his life on raising his daughter. It's often the case that when a man is happily married, he will quickly re-marry if the wife dies.

I also think it's great when a daughter knows that her father "loves her mother more than anyone in the world". I imagine it gives her a good example of what kind of man she should be interested in.

-k

curious

shoehead

2007-09-05, 00:07

I thought this episode was really touching..
I really wanted the scene with Kanata to last longer.

Has anyone confirmed how Kanata passed away? Was it really an effect of child birth? Did they ever mention it in the manga?

Vexx

2007-09-05, 01:36

It was implied that there were complications after childbirth.... really, childbirth is a pretty risky proposition - even with modern technology. You're asking a mom to push something the size of a watermelon out between her pelvis... lots of things can rip, tear, or fail especially with small moms. .....

EXEs

2007-09-05, 03:30

if it was a childbirth effect, wouldn't we not see Kanata holding Konata?

Meophist

2007-09-05, 03:58

*wapuro stuff*Yeah, that's what I had. I remember thinking that it was pretty cool. It was like a computer, but not exactly.

723

2007-09-05, 05:20

if it was a childbirth effect, wouldn't we not see Kanata holding Konata?

You got a point... I believe that it was some kind of terminal illness. I thought that after seeing the image of Soujiro crying on Kanata's bed. That's a pretty common image after telling someone you love that you are going to pass... But, don't doctors ask family first if they want the ill person to know?

It is also possible that Soujiro decided to tell her and he couldn't hide his sadness. Kanata smiling after hearing what is happening to her fits very well to her personality... What do you think?

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-05, 07:55

You got a point... I believe that it was some kind of terminal illness. I thought that after seeing the image of Soujiro crying on Kanata's bed. That's a pretty common image after telling someone you love that you are going to pass... But, don't doctors ask family first if they want the ill person to know?

It is also possible that Soujiro decided to tell her and he couldn't hide his sadness. Kanata smiling after hearing what is happening to her fits very well to her personality... What do you think?

http://www.kidoutenshi.net/random/vlcsnap-53174.png

Personally, I don't think he's crying in that scene, but sleeping on her lap. Obviously his face seems a little troubled, but you don't see him sobbing or moving during the entire scene, so it would have a double meaning. However, I see your point judging by the timeline. The scene that precedes ( Soujirou pushing a wheelchair with Kanata and Konata in her arms ), and the scene that follows ( the two of them watching the sunset ) and the one after that, the one with the garden full of flowers. After that, that scene ends. It does seem like a little timeline in small segments.

However, I'm not 100% sure that she passed away right after giving birth to Konata, since right at the beginning, we see Soujirou mourning and Konata on the ground, sitting beside him. I'm not an expert on babies, but I don't think they'd be able to sit like that right after being born. Maybe a couple of weeks after?

But the fact that Kanata was small could really have something to do with her death. She also doesn't seem to me like someone who has perfect health ( Take Yutaka, for example. It seems like it runs in the family - that is, if Cousin Yui was Kanata's relative instead of being Soujirou's relative, but correct me if I'm wrong. ).

Peanutbutter003

2007-09-05, 08:50

I'm willing to bet it's the good ol' J-drama cliche...Kanata has leukemia after giving birth to Konata and then passes away not too long after.

Anyway, I dun think they'll explain how she died. Defeats the Lucky Star image.

723

2007-09-05, 08:51

http://www.kidoutenshi.net/random/vlcsnap-53174.png

Personally, I don't think he's crying in that scene, but sleeping on her lap. Obviously his face seems a little troubled, but you don't see him sobbing or moving during the entire scene, so it would have a double meaning.

Yeah, taht was my fault... Obviusly, I missed few seconds of the scene because of the subs, but he is not definetely crying at all. But, in that scene we can't see Konata anywhere, not even a simple cradle. And the fact that she is on a hospital bed... still looks a little weird to me.

And, I do not also know about babies, but, doesn't it looks strange that a birth complication lasts a few weeksto really hurt? I mean, and I apologize for my English level (it is a little difficult to express some things), that, if a woman really gets hurt during the birth she feels very tired. And probably her life lasts the time shee need to hug the baby between her arms... Doesn't seem like the scenes we were talking about.

Furthermore, the ill aspect of Kanata, and the image of Konata sitting (sorry, I couldn't find the scene you said) just add to the terminal illness theory. Moreover there is a strange scene I cannot understand. The flashback when Souchiro and Kanata go to the beach, she returns hiding her nose and mouth with a handkerchief. This could be also proof of her ill aspect...

More opinions?

Vexx

2007-09-05, 09:40

EXEs

2007-09-05, 09:47

Wow...interesting and informative theories up there. Yeah Vexx, some of us are maybe gonna tag Kanata's death under, as you would put, "romantic movie death". Though you can't deny there will always be LS fans who will definitely want to know how she died, eg me :)

Maybe this subject will come up in the next episode? It's possible.

Ascaloth

2007-09-05, 11:16

We'll probably just have to tag it as "romantic movie death" and be happy... the details do make it appear less likely it was directly related to childbirth but, basically --- whatever. The point is she's deceased.

I'd say it's almost the exact same situation you have in the 2004 live-action movie Be With You (http://www.nihonreview.com/live-action/be-with-you/). Mom gives birth to child, grows sick soon after and dies, her death may have something to do with her childbirth, but probably not a direct correlation.

Okay.....who am I kidding here? 10/10 from me, of course. ;)

EDIT: I just realised I'm pairing a Zetsubou Sensei avvie with a Lucky Star sig. Completely wrong. :heh:

kenjiharima

2007-09-05, 11:35

lung problems maybe? or she has cancer... damn it i don't wanna think about her sickness makes me feel more sad she's gone before even L*S stared. :(

Rion Steiner

2007-09-05, 11:36

Solafighter

2007-09-05, 11:58

Very greate episode. Sadly about Kanata. :upset:

Shiroth

2007-09-05, 12:36

Maybe this subject will come up in the next episode? It's possible.
Even though its possible, its hard to believe it actually shall happen. Kanata and the family had there time in episode 22, it wouldn't feel right if the matter was brought up again at random. If it was to be mentioned, it would have in this episode.

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-05, 13:04

Even though its possible, its hard to believe it actually shall happen. Kanata and the family had there time in episode 22, it wouldn't feel right if the matter was brought up again at random. If it was to be mentioned, it would have in this episode.

Agree. There aren't many "Serious" scenes in Lucky Star apart from this one in episode 22 and that one in episode 17 (16?) about Kagami's experiences with her older sisters. I also liked that segment, and it still falls into the "slice of life" description of the show. And personally, I wouldn't think that mentioning Kanata's death in the last two episodes would be appropriate.

With that said, I'd love to see Lucky Star meet its final moments of airtime under Kanata's guiding. As in, she would oversee the aspects of her daughter's daily life from a distance and, maybe, end with an epic phrase. If there was one "Last scene" I'll always remember, it's the one from Saber Marionettes J to X, where the last ending song comes to an end and the fading title says "Good luck to everybody". That really left a mark on me, and I'll never forget it. If they could do that to L*S, then I think this series will become even more memorable in the future.

Yeah, taht was my fault... Obviusly, I missed few seconds of the scene because of the subs, but he is not definetely crying at all. But, in that scene we can't see Konata anywhere, not even a simple cradle. And the fact that she is on a hospital bed... still looks a little weird to me.

And, I do not also know about babies, but, doesn't it looks strange that a birth complication lasts a few weeksto really hurt? I mean, and I apologize for my English level (it is a little difficult to express some things), that, if a woman really gets hurt during the birth she feels very tired. And probably her life lasts the time shee need to hug the baby between her arms... Doesn't seem like the scenes we were talking about.

Furthermore, the ill aspect of Kanata, and the image of Konata sitting (sorry, I couldn't find the scene you said) just add to the terminal illness theory. Moreover there is a strange scene I cannot understand. The flashback when Souchiro and Kanata go to the beach, she returns hiding her nose and mouth with a handkerchief. This could be also proof of her ill aspect...

More opinions?

Here, I meant http://www.kidoutenshi.net/random/vlcsnap-241470.png

Well, your theory isn't a complete failure because Soujirou's expression does seem really troubled, and I could really see him having cried quite a lot before falling asleep. But mothers won't stay with their child 24/7 after giving birth - Konata could've been placed in another bed or something of the sort while she slept. And I'm not sure about birth complications, but I guess the most deadly one causes almost sudden death to the mother, but there could be other ones, such as an infection, loss of blood and other things. My mother, for example, almost did die when I was born, and it wasn't even a natural labor - she had surgery. She then started bleeding quite a lot. She also had a friend who did die exactly the same way, only two weeks before ( and in the same room as she was, but let's not dive into details here... ) .

And yes, Kanata running with her nose covered and Soujirou's worrysome expression do make me wonder if she had a sickly body. Same thing on the train scene, where she's sleeping besides him. But yeah, as Vexx said, we might never know the true cause of her death. And I don't think we should dwell much into it, anyway. I think it will only make this episode sadder and sadder.

Kaioshin Sama

2007-09-05, 15:42

While we're talking about Kanata and how she died, I feel I should mention that the scene didn't have as much of an effect on me as it did for others. I can't help but feel Kanata never got any real development, so I can't feel the kind of attachment to her that would have let the scene be fully effective. Like who is this woman other than Konata's mother, and why is she saying the things she is. I don't know, it just doesn't work without more development. She sure was cute though and the scene was great effort. The best scenes like this though for me is when a character who has actually passed away during the shows run and got the character development during the series run instead of retroactively, get's a behind the scenes appearance in death later on, something like in Legend of The Galactic Heroes, with Yang's fathers ghost or Balgus in Escaflowne.

The rating I gave was a 9.5 rounded up to a 10 by the way too clear up any doubts. This would be I think the second time Lucky Star has received a 10 from me and it's rare for me to give them. I think only a Legend of The Galactic Heroes episode has ever been given a perfect 10 by me.

Vexx

2007-09-05, 16:27

I reviewed the Kanata sequence... I'm going to guess that she was always frail as well as petite. The flashback sequence seemed chronological and her bad experience at the beach (having to leave because of some respiratory issue) was before they were married. It looks to me as if she was really too frail to be pregnant but wanted it badly enough to risk it.

Looking at Kona's little cousin, lets hope it doesn't run in the family :(

It is too bad they didn't have Kanata drifting around a bit more often :) but it is really nice to see one of the older classy VAs get a bit of work --- she has quite the credential list.

Shiroth

2007-09-05, 16:35

It looks to me as if she was really too frail to be pregnant but wanted it badly enough to risk it.
Thinking about it, makes me love her even more --- and how much she loved Sojiro.

It is too bad they didn't have Kanata drifting around a bit more often :)
Again that would be nice, though i wouldn't want how special this scene was in episode 22 to be ruined. As i said before, even though i'd love more Kanata, i think that was plenty, and it was lovely.

Anh_Minh

2007-09-05, 17:12

I don't know about Yuu, but at least, Konata herself is healthy. (Physically... )

tun

2007-09-05, 17:28

Finally got around to watching episode 22. This one hit home since I've also lost my mom. Albeit I was a teenager (15) when my mom died but the ep brought up those feelings back to the surface. I kinda pity Konata in that she never got to know her mom; she's really not aware of what she's missing.

OceanBlue

2007-09-05, 17:43

C-c-c-c-Combo Breaker!!
Kidding, got hyped up, episode 22 deserved to have 100+ perfect 10 votes.

Really happy they introduced Kanata to us. Sounds weird but Kanata deserves no other person in existence than Soujirou Izumi. (I snickered, but Im serious)

Anyone noticed Misao's phone scene? It was so freakin cute! She made Kagami snap her Poki and her "etto ne..... ah.. nandaka (sorry if I misspelled)" is a "Death-by-moe". I gotta say her seiyuu is as talented as Aya (Konata's Seiyuu). Im gonna search for more of her works in other anime series.

Looks like it has 100+ perfect 10 votes.

Wait. When you said it, did you mean that it deserves it, or that it deserves to have it?

Anyways, I loved this episode. I always liked the sentimental scenes, especially since there's enough comedy and character development to get you really attached to the characters.

jtrog

2007-09-05, 17:46

I liked the kitchen scenes with the snacks and jar. More aspects of life that are funny from the anime point of view. I was waiting to see the bag rip open on Konata and the stuff in side go all over the place like they do when I try to open some chips at times. :heh:

Claies

2007-09-05, 21:41

I have no words to describe the Kanata scene. While I didn't cry at all, I did find it a very emotionally powerful scene...and that came out of nowhere from Lucky Star, of all shows. I somewhat saw it coming because I've read the manga, but this is one very original adaptation from KyoAni, to give them credit.

Of course, this casts a lot of shadows on Konata's physical health, as a great number of MADs on NicoNico speculate.

By consensus, this is the best episode of the series, I believe. A 10/10 from me, of course.

CrowKenobi

2007-09-05, 21:56

Of course, this casts a lot of shadows on Konata's physical health, as a great number of MADs on NicoNico speculate.From what I've seen, I think that Kona-chan's health is fine, otherwise she'd be more like Yutaka and wouldn't have been able to do that run in episode 1 (not to mention the Hare Hare Yukai dance!). :D

:cool:

Aznbanana

2007-09-05, 23:20

AHHHHHH I'm so sad T___T Must hold back manly tears. Agh, the scene made me feel so emotional. Anytime something makes me feel emotional like this, i have to give it a 10. Its why i watch anime anyways, for the emotional experiences and entertainment.

Alesiopdv

2007-09-06, 00:37

Nice. But not nearly as touching as the last episode of Pitaten.

Not one of the best episodes of the series.

Love the Haruhi self-joke. Change the "fourth installment" for "second season" and you get the point.

Ahasuerus

2007-09-06, 00:44

I rarely post as I'm fairly new to anime, and so don't have a particularly adept frame of references to be able to bring much to the table. But I HAVE been watching just about non-stop since May, and seen a boatload of series (many more than once), and Kanata's scene just about blew everything else away. I thought that Kouta and Lucy's last scene from "Elfen Lied" was the most gut-wrenching, but after this...

I'm so glad that they showed Kanata, because from the earliest episodes I wondered about her and what had happened to her. I totally wasn't expecting that it would ever be explained, and in such a powerfully emotional manner. Such a sweet couple, and it showed Konata's dad in a new light that was brilliant. Not only that, but he really did choose the one who was for him, as she did (reminded me of Chobits in that way)...

I forgot who made the Youtube posting of it, but Thank You :) I've got all the eps so far, but it's nice to have the scene isolated so I can share it. I've watched it six times, and each time it's as (bitter)sweet as the first.

I don't like to give out 10s, but this one easily made the grade, what with the other scenes included. Kanata's scene overpowered them all.

And as for all the "manly tears" stuff... you DO know that men can cry, and are able to cry, and do cry, and there's NOTHING to be ashamed about it? Holding back tears does NOT mean you're a man. Isn't it ever so much better to not be yet another calloused unfeeling shlub stomping "manfully" through life, all macho and thick as a brick? Unpeel the callous, and FEEL IT! That's what we are here for ;)

Jeez, I had tears running down my face each time, and GRATEFUL that I came across this creation that was able to induce me to feel as I did.

IMHO, that scene typified anime at it's finest. Bravo to all involved :cool:

More please :)

P.S.: Is it my imagination, or is Aya's Konata blowing Haruhi out of the water? :p (and I love her Haruhi). She is SO talented (and funny)!

Claies

2007-09-06, 01:03

From what I've seen, I think that Kona-chan's health is fine, otherwise she'd be more like Yutaka and wouldn't have been able to do that run in episode 1 (not to mention the Hare Hare Yukai dance!). :D

:cool:

True.

But some of you need to see those MADs. That's when I'll see rivers of manly tears being shed.

Sheba

2007-09-06, 01:30

Love the Haruhi self-joke. Change the "fourth installment" for "second season" and you get the point.

Not really, I think they are really poking fun at Full Metal Panic. Fans long wanted a sequel after Second Raid, and I can understand them.

jaziek

2007-09-06, 01:42

Not really, I think they are really poking fun at Full Metal Panic. Fans long wanted a sequel after Second Raid, and I can understand them.

ITS COMING!! DONT SAY IT ISNT!! :eyespin::eyespin:

Vexx

2007-09-06, 01:45

@health discussion: aye, Konata appears to have her dad's good health. Yutaka, on the other hand, is a bit worrisome for the future.

@Aya's performance: I don't even have to wince. Aya's Konata performance is miles above her Haruhi gig... but that's because Haruhi was relatively simple outside of the emoting. The Konata character is full of mutters, growls, chirps, and burbles in addition to her vocal pacing weirdness and speech patterns. Its a more difficult role and whether you like the Konata characterization or not, its much more of a stretch for a VA.

Leedizzle

2007-09-06, 05:47

Is it wrong of me to think to expect some hot Konata and Kagami action in Lucky Star, sometime in the near future.

EXEs

2007-09-06, 06:29

Originally posted by Leedizzle
Is it wrong of me to think to expect some hot Konata and Kagami action in Lucky Star, sometime in the near future.

In doujins, yeah, but seriously, do you really think they would put that stuff in the anime?

Echoes

2007-09-06, 07:45

Long time Lucky-Star lurker, first time poster.

I've always watched Lucky Star purely for entertainment and laughs, not really developing any affection for characters other than Konata. This episode was definitely something else, though. It brought it to a whole other level. They surely know how to switch the focus from comedy to drama, I was basically brought to tears by those scenes. The scenes with Kanata were nothing short of beautiful.

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-06, 10:04

In doujins, yeah, but seriously, do you really think they would put that stuff in the anime?

Which brings one thing to my attention. I actually wanted to post it earlier, but I was never around the computer whenever it crossed my mind. I really hope that Doujin/Eromanga artists will spare Kanata from their works. Obviously I don't have much faith that it will happen, but after seeing episode 22, Kanata's image is just one of those I wouldn't like to see ruined and perverted.

@Kaioshin_Sama:
I can certainly see the point you're making, and I understand that it might not be that dramatic for a character who we've never seen before to get an appearance like Kanata's. However, I think that this scene had such an impact on -almost- everyone because of it's unexpectedness. I mean, out of 22 episodes, this is one of the two or three "serious" scenes in the entire series, and by far the most dramatic one. It also came at a very peculiar time and with a very peculiar setting, so I think that, this time, the shock was more powerful than reason.

Besides, I don't think most of us watch Lucky Star with a very critical eye other than the cultural references and things of the sort, which, IMHO, adds to the socking factor the segment had.

However, like I said before, I think the scene didn't completely leave the L*S style, adding in a few mother/daughter combo jokes and things of the sort. Of course, the setting changes from a lighthearted evening conversation to the dramatic remembering of a tragic but beautiful love story, but if they wanted to make a smooth transition from the L*S style to a more serious one, I think they would have done so.

Like, for example, you see Konata and Soujirou in the room and he asks her "Are you lonely without mom?" "Not really, you're lively as two people. It's just that I don't know much about her". At that time, the scene moves to his surprised face and then Kona's PS2/3 control while she's playing. Right at that time, with no background music and with such a strange setting, I started to feel that something was coming. And yeah, I wasn't wrong.

And as for all the "manly tears" stuff... you DO know that men can cry, and are able to cry, and do cry, and there's NOTHING to be ashamed about it? Holding back tears does NOT mean you're a man. Isn't it ever so much better to not be yet another calloused unfeeling shlub stomping "manfully" through life, all macho and thick as a brick? Unpeel the callous, and FEEL IT! That's what we are here for

Well, I understand what you mean and really, I have nothing against anyone who'd cry watching this scene, because it deserves as many tears as it can get. However, I have my reasons for not crying, even if I did want to contribute to the shedding of tears that will be forever remembered from this episode.

@Aya's performance: I don't even have to wince. Aya's Konata performance is miles above her Haruhi gig... but that's because Haruhi was relatively simple outside of the emoting. The Konata character is full of mutters, growls, chirps, and burbles in addition to her vocal pacing weirdness and speech patterns. Its a more difficult role and whether you like the Konata characterization or not, its much more of a stretch for a VA.

I second that. I'm not a blind fan of SHnY but I appreciate the quality of the series. As much as Hirano Aya's performance in it was remarkable, I don't think that Kona-chan will be surpassed in the near future. She changes tones really often, has her little emotional explosions and can go from moe mode to grim, blue-gradient face mode in a snap. And, of course, "Kagamin~" will never be forgotten!

Mirrinus

2007-09-06, 12:51

Not really, I think they are really poking fun at Full Metal Panic. Fans long wanted a sequel after Second Raid, and I can understand them.

I agree, that was definitely a reference to Full Metal Panic. The next one would be the fourth installment, plus it's suppose to be a series that Kagami is actually interested in according to the conversation, and we already know she's a FMP fan.

As for the actual episode, I definitely loved the Kanata scenes. I totally felt the tears well up in my eyes, lol. It allowed us to see a side of Konata and her father that we usually don't see often, and I think that was important for characterization, especially in a character-driven show like this. I'm also feeling pretty confident that Kyoto Animation's adaptation of Clannad will be good too after this. Good that they're getting some practice in. ^_^

I must additionally agree that Hirano Aya's performance in LS has been the best I've heard from her yet. Konata is just too much fun to listen to.

Kaoru Chujo

2007-09-06, 13:03

I agree, that was definitely a reference to Full Metal Panic. The next one would be the fourth installment, plus it's suppose to be a series that Kagami is actually interested in according to the conversation, and we already know she's a FMP fan....And the director of FMP, Takemoto Yasuhiro, is the new director (since ep5) of this show, but not the director of SHnY.

kenjiharima

2007-09-06, 14:14

i just remembered L*S is a 24 ep anime right? Then thus this mean 2 more eps to go right? Correct me if Iam wrong. I'll miss those loli's especially Konata, Kanata, Misao and Minami.

rainnydaiis

2007-09-06, 14:24

I watched the episode when it was sub'd and out. After watching the episode, with all the laughs and all the funny times. Seeing this episode was just a beautiful moment. I gave it a 10 and it seems like a whole lot of other people agreed :heh:

And of course the ED was just hilarious.

Ahasuerus

2007-09-06, 16:51

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-06, 17:26

I'd never so badly wanted to be able to send a "Thank you for that" to a studio before; but that language barrier makes it a moot point I guess. It was a pretty cool little surprise; I'm sure the director(s?) knew what they were doing to their fans

"Nice touch" is an understatement

Even though I've enjoyed pretty much every minute, I was kind of on the fence before about buying the series, but that scene clinched it. Guess I'm just a Sentimental Fool, and there's really not much wrong with that

I will send them a letter, in english, thanking them for this episode as soon as I finish a vector I'm doing of the scene Kanata, Konata and Soujirou are in the same picture. They might not understand it, but I'll have sent it anyway. I really can't tell if being sick all week made me lose the will to do anything that's not related this episode 22 of Lucky*Star. Perhaps things would be different if I was in perfect health, but who knows.

I'll post it in here when I get the time to actually write it. Maybe some of us can send other letters to thank them for their great work as well.

Edit: Don't know if any of you feel masochist enough to share the hole of disgrace with me. But if you do, watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMuMzMt2fo4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Eanimesuki%2Ecom%2Fshowt hread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D46293%26page%3D15) video and read these (http://www.kiwi-musume.com/lyrics/kokia/arigatou.html) lyrics. Ps.: Video was posted originally by Rion Steiner in the AMV thread, but it doesn't have a lot of attention as this topic, so.

Leedizzle

2007-09-06, 18:23

Well, I was thinking more like a kiss, you know like Strawberry Panic style or something along those lines. I didn't really mean full on lesbian, well I did but I do not expect it from the anime.

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-06, 18:27

Is it wrong of me to think to expect some hot Konata and Kagami action in Lucky Star, sometime in the near future.

Well, I was thinking more like a kiss, you know like Strawberry Panic style or something along those lines. I didn't really mean full on lesbian, well I did but I do not expect it from the anime.

Well, the anime is full of jabs and mentions to Yuri, but I don't think it'll go that far. Obviously, Kagami and Kona are close friends and there is that fell of "romance" between the two ( might be just fanboy imagination, but you make the call ), but I'd really doubt that they would throw a Kagamin~xKona moment like that. If they did, it would probably be a prank by Konata which would leave Kagami completely furious.

Ahasuerus

2007-09-06, 18:52

Thanks Zero, that was a beautiful video, and the lyrics were especially fitting.

Even if I get hurt sometimes, I want to keep feeling you

Yes, that sums it up quite nicely :)

As for the yuri scene, that would be SO out of place I really doubt they'd go so far as to trivialize their game plan with such a thing. This isn't a hentai anime, after all, there are places you can go for that. Why dirty such a slice-of-life with nothing more than a fanboy fantasy?

I just had a Forum-mate on another forum "reprimand" me for "overestimating the impact of this scene" and also suggesting that "one of them obsessing about writing her underage friends into a yuri manga" was not something that normal girls do (quotes are just estimates). Well, that's not what it's about, and Tsukasa's remarks (IIRC it was her?) were not meant to be taken literally. I have nothing against hentai anime, but let's keep them separate if possible. It has no place in Lucky Star, and would seem just a cheap attempt at fan service where it's not needed.

I mean, the whole thing is practically fan service, only in every way but blatantly sexual. All the anime and manga references, the ultimate lolicon-ness of all the girls, the otaku father, the karaoke, the Haruhi-ness... maybe all these don't technically equal fan service, but really, if this isn't servicing anime fans I don't know what is! :heh:

I think these little comments from the girls and Konata's dad are only sly winks sent to us, and Kanata's scene was a "haha, gotcha!" from them to us, and for that I say, "Yep, you did! Thank you :)"

Hope you're feeling better soon :)

Rion Steiner

2007-09-06, 19:04

Just a silly idea but does anyone else thinks that:
Kagami + Tsukasa + Miyuki + Yutaka = Kanata
Konata's victi-I mean friends who she spends more time with in the series.

She's got:
Miyuki's Moeness and maturity
Tsukasa's innocence (ex. from the inner otaku world)
Yutaka's Loli-ness, health and body condition
and Kagami's, well Kanata fell in love and married and Kagami is already in that process.

Somehow Kanata was already with Konata from the beggining through her friends.

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-06, 20:31

Just a though but does anyone else thinks that:
Kagami + Tsukasa + Miyuki + Yutaka = Kanata
Konata's victi-I mean friends who she spends more time with in the series.

She's got:
Miyuki's Moeness and maturity
Tsukasa's innocence (ex. from the inner otaku world)
Yutaka's Loli-ness, health and body condition
and Kagami's, well Kanata fell in love and married and Kagami is already in that process.

Somehow Kanata was already with Konata from the beggining through her friends.

Well, that's a really good comparison, and I see your point. However, I don't think Kagami is in the process of getting married or loving somoene as of yet, at least there weren't any hints that I remember would make it seem that way.

However, Kagami does share a trait with Kanata, and that is the endurance to "stand" the otaku way of Konata and Soujirou, respectively. Even with Kanata's seemingly passive and understanding personality ( the anthintesis of Kagami's ), I bet he also had her takes at Soujirou's otakuness in the past. Maybe not in the same way as Kagami does, but I'm pretty sure she sometimes had to be hard on him and his out-of-this-world perception of things.

Don't forget that Minami shares the quietness with Kanata as well.

And wow, it does make quite a lot of sense, now that you mention it, right? Although I don't see a lot of connections with Misao and most of the other characters.

Alesiopdv

2007-09-06, 22:22

Its not the fourth installment if you count the Tessa OVA.

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-06, 22:44

Claies

2007-09-07, 01:19

As far as I remember it, the ova starring Tessa still falls under "Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid". Check ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6256). And to me, it's 100% certain that they're talking about FMP in there. After all, it's the only known anime that Kagami likes.

It has to be FMP because:
- It's a KyoAni production
- Kagami most likely knows more about it than any other series
- It actually has 3 seasons
- Shouji Gatou, the author of FMP, last posted on his blog about the latest volume to be released. He also hinted something about what could be the final volume being pushed back.

Sheba

2007-09-07, 03:03

On the yuri topic, I'll leave that to the fans and fanartists. I'm just happy enough with Kagami being Chandler and Konata being Joey, and whatever undertones comes from that character dynamic.

Alesiopdv

2007-09-07, 04:13

I'm just happy enough with Kagami being Chandler and Konata being Joey

But even Joey sister think they are a gay couple, remember first episode of Joey?

the ova starring Tessa still falls under "Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid".

Doesnt feel like more part of Fumoffo?. Anyway, Fumoffo doesnt feel like part of the continuity of the other two seasons because of the self-parody nature of the series.

Somebody notices that Kanata wasnt that short? When they were running she reaches Soujiro shoulder.

Ascaloth

2007-09-07, 08:24

2H-Dragon

2007-09-07, 09:17

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-07, 09:35

Personally, I didn't actually cry at the Kanata scene. I was all "awwwwww..." instead.

Somehow I don't really feel that sad for Kanata. And why should I? She died happy, and she stayed happy even in death; if you've got to go, that's as good a way as any. You might say I was touched more than the romance than the tragedy.

Well, you do have a point. She did die happy and I'm sure she had plenty of pleasant memories with Soujirou before that, and she even got to know her daughter, even if for just a little while. But it is still pretty sad that such a nice person would die so early and leave such a loving and dedicated husband behind along with their just-born child. I'm pretty sure they would have stayed a happy family if she had survived, so that makes it even harder to accept.

I guess it's not much a matter of feeling sad because she died - it's more a matter of Kanata not being there with her family. There's a philosophical difference between the two. At least that's how I see it. If you isolate her from the rest, sure she passed away shortly after - probably - the happiest day of her life, and knowing Soujirou would take good care of Kona, the died happy and without regrets. But if you add the rest of the family to the equation, of course there's a heavier weight to be beared.

@2H-Dragon:

Well, I guess L*S always had some drama in it, although it's not normally explicit like in this scene. It thought it was a little dramatic when Kagami had a quarrel with her sisters and when we were first told Konata never had the chance to meet her mother. In Episode 21, when Kagami received that "meet me at XYZ" letter, it also made me a little sad for her, despite the comic turnout. But again, maybe I'm just seeing things.

Vexx

2007-09-07, 10:11

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-07, 11:22

That's why its a "slice of life" story... people who label L*S (or AzuDa or I.M., etc) as only a "comedy" are ignoring the aspects of these shows that make their brand of comedy stand out. Really good comedy threads a neat path through tragic human conditions and much of the laughter comes from the recognition of one's own experience in life.

It's funny that you'd point that out. Two days ago, my grandma came over and saw me posting that yellow-ish picture of Soujirou and Kanata while he mourned over Kanata's death, and she pointed out what a work of art it was. It surprised me since she's definitely not into anime, but her background in art and painting made her see right through the mixture of depressing and dramatic colors, forms and gestures in the picture and realize it was a pretty sad moment. I then explained that the series was actually a slice-of-life/comedy piece and that this particular scene was an exception to the norm in that it was really sad and dramatic. "The real, true comedy is supposed to make you cry just as it's supposed to make you laugh." is what she said.

And that gave me a new perspective on L*S, because I actually didn't think of it as being a piece on itself up until that point. Of course, the slice of life, otaku idiosyncrasies and just random everyday moments we've all experienced at some point really makes the show speak to me. But apart from that, I didn't carry much of a critical eye along with me whenever I was watching it. Guess it was the wrong way to go, after all.

2H-Dragon

2007-09-07, 12:19

Yeah it's true it always had it's moments of drama, but never this heavy. Yeah I had something similar, ok it wasn't that similar. With my brother coming in(he tried watching LS, but lack of point drove him away)looks at the screen and then at me and says. "You're not going to go all emo on me are you?" LS even with happy go lucky color pallet was pretty good at setting a tone everyone could get even if they don't know what it is about.

Kyuusai

2007-09-07, 12:20

Zero Shinohara, your grandmother is a very insightful woman. :)

One thing I enjoy about Lucky Star is that its characters are very well fleshed out. We don't see it all the time, but behind the quirky, superficial jokes are complex characters with very human relationships. This is a quality shared by almost all the best comedies, and is what gives Lucky Star a personal touch that makes it so enjoyable. It's also what makes scenes like this so significant and touching when we see them, because it is a natural extension and progression of such complete characters.

Sheba

2007-09-07, 13:30

It makes me think. Would the backlash be less than it was if L*S was presented as a slice-of-life show and not comedy? If I told a casual viewer that L*S is a comedy, I think he'd expect something like Excel Saga or PPD. It would be another kind of expectation if I told him it is a slice-of-life anime.

Vexx

2007-09-07, 15:34

I don't think it was ever "presented" as a comedy, I think some of the audience and reviewers (particularly the "foreign" audiences) *mistake* it for a shallow comedy based on a shallow analysis. The other problem is that when one compares it to AzuDa or I.M., some fans of those classics take umbrage, claiming L*S is just derivative, rather than something "in the vein of" able to stand on its own as a picture of particular aspects of life.

L*S has comedic aspects but it is also a series of tragedy (Konata getting distracted by a game while her homework languishes, Nanako going dateless and aging, Yui being a disaster as a police officer, Kagami's loneliness because of her bristly aspects, Tsukasa's various torments, Yutaka's frailty, etc). None of those are FUNNY... but they're tragic aspects that give the comedy much more weight. L*S is one in a long line of "comedies of the human condition" where the viewer laughs when they connect to the characters and their situations. As much as I enjoyed PPD or Excel Saga, neither really has anything to do with this sort of thing.

Sheba

2007-09-07, 16:28

L*S has comedic aspects but it is also a series of tragedy (Konata getting distracted by a game while her homework languishes, Nanako going dateless and aging, Yui being a disaster as a police officer, Kagami's loneliness because of her bristly aspects, Tsukasa's various torments, Yutaka's frailty, etc). None of those are FUNNY... but they're tragic aspects that give the comedy much more weight.

I had not thought about the show under that angle. And God knows I used to be a reader of Moliere's comedies.

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-07, 16:52

Yeah, I agree to a large extent. Personally, I think that characters in most "mainstream" anime are rather 2-Dish, in the sense that they will act based on the emotions that are portrayed >there< and in >that< moment. Take Bleach for example. It's rather obvious that if your friends are in jeopardy, you'd want to grab a sword and go defend them, right? But it sucks if that's ALL you do. And don't take me wrong in here, they're two styles and I'm just pointing this out for argument's sake.

And well, if you ask me, I'd say L*S has a much deeper "Slice of Life" feel than Azumanga did. My memory may be failing me, but as far as "real-life situation" goes, L*S is much more down to earth than AD was, with the exception, of course, of the Anime Tenchou overly exxagerated scenes and the usual Konata overreactions. I haven't seen Ichigo Mashimaro yet, but the few scenes that I've seen ( more accurately, episode 3, I guess ) made me think it went a little far into the fictional world. It's cute, it's rather funny and the characters are adorable, but again, each series has its pros and cons.

As for PPD, I didn't manage to go past episode 10. There were some good jokes, but the whole nonsense-just-for-the-sake-of-laughs way portrayed didn't speak all that well to me.

And if you ask me, classifying L*S as comedy is accurate, but not on the spot as Vexx said above. The style of comedy isn't something a >normal< person would understand, at least for the most part. Of course, Tsukasa loosing her sleep for the smallest things is something we've all experienced, but try showing the SRW fight between Kona ( Arbalest ) and Nanako ( Venom ) to someone who's never heard of SRW and see if they find it funny. I've only seen a couple videos of the games, but I thought that scene was hilarious.

Same thing with the scene in episode 21, where there's a little "Konata is my Wife" thrown right there. If you didn't hear about the Emas and the popularity of Saitama in the japanese otaku fandom, you'd probably think it was something thrown there out of the blue.

Still, I think anyone can enjoy the series, well-versed veterans and newcomers alike. I guess the only thing that changes is how deep you feel the jokes and jabs this it throws at you.

Yuu-neko

2007-09-07, 17:40

Well, the anime is full of jabs and mentions to Yuri, but I don't think it'll go that far. Obviously, Kagami and Kona are close friends and there is that fell of "romance" between the two ( might be just fanboy imagination, but you make the call ), but I'd really doubt that they would throw a Kagamin~xKona moment like that. If they did, it would probably be a prank by Konata which would leave Kagami completely furious.

Yeah, I agree... If something might actually happen it would be a prank on Kagami or maybe Kagami to Konata, which would leave Konata and a lot of fans quite shocked... (yeah, like hell Kagami would do that to Konata XD)... Anyways, it would be quite fun to see hehehe *evil eyes* ...

Ascaloth

2007-09-07, 22:16

Well, you do have a point. She did die happy and I'm sure she had plenty of pleasant memories with Soujirou before that, and she even got to know her daughter, even if for just a little while. But it is still pretty sad that such a nice person would die so early and leave such a loving and dedicated husband behind along with their just-born child. I'm pretty sure they would have stayed a happy family if she had survived, so that makes it even harder to accept.

I guess it's not much a matter of feeling sad because she died - it's more a matter of Kanata not being there with her family. There's a philosophical difference between the two. At least that's how I see it. If you isolate her from the rest, sure she passed away shortly after - probably - the happiest day of her life, and knowing Soujirou would take good care of Kona, the died happy and without regrets. But if you add the rest of the family to the equation, of course there's a heavier weight to be beared.

That's true as well, but well...in my case, it's like watching a "Special" of a tragic dorama without having watched the dorama itself; sure I feel a little sad, but I'm sure I'll feel even more grieved if I were actually watching the dorama itself...

...Anyone else hoping for Yoshimizu to do a Lucky Star prequel series for KyoAni to adapt? ;)

It's funny that you'd point that out. Two days ago, my grandma came over and saw me posting that yellow-ish picture of Soujirou and Kanata while he mourned over Kanata's death, and she pointed out what a work of art it was. It surprised me since she's definitely not into anime, but her background in art and painting made her see right through the mixture of depressing and dramatic colors, forms and gestures in the picture and realize it was a pretty sad moment. I then explained that the series was actually a slice-of-life/comedy piece and that this particular scene was an exception to the norm in that it was really sad and dramatic. "The real, true comedy is supposed to make you cry just as it's supposed to make you laugh." is what she said.

And that gave me a new perspective on L*S, because I actually didn't think of it as being a piece on itself up until that point. Of course, the slice of life, otaku idiosyncrasies and just random everyday moments we've all experienced at some point really makes the show speak to me. But apart from that, I didn't carry much of a critical eye along with me whenever I was watching it. Guess it was the wrong way to go, after all.

I don't think it was ever "presented" as a comedy, I think some of the audience and reviewers (particularly the "foreign" audiences) *mistake* it for a shallow comedy based on a shallow analysis. The other problem is that when one compares it to AzuDa or I.M., some fans of those classics take umbrage, claiming L*S is just derivative, rather than something "in the vein of" able to stand on its own as a picture of particular aspects of life.

L*S has comedic aspects but it is also a series of tragedy (Konata getting distracted by a game while her homework languishes, Nanako going dateless and aging, Yui being a disaster as a police officer, Kagami's loneliness because of her bristly aspects, Tsukasa's various torments, Yutaka's frailty, etc). None of those are FUNNY... but they're tragic aspects that give the comedy much more weight. L*S is one in a long line of "comedies of the human condition" where the viewer laughs when they connect to the characters and their situations. As much as I enjoyed PPD or Excel Saga, neither really has anything to do with this sort of thing.

Yes, listen to da old folks. They do have da wisdom. :p

Joking aside, I really am amazed by your grandmother though. It really takes a certain kind to see art in the simple things. :)

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-08, 01:25

...Anyone else hoping for Yoshimizu to do a Lucky Star prequel series for KyoAni to adapt?

Well, if they're looking for volunteers, here's one. But I highly doubt that it would happen, unfortunately. Unless, of course, they were interested in a pre-wed/newlywed take at "slice of life". Just from the short scenes of Soujirou and Kanata, I can bet my ass that the two of them have quite a lot of such moments. I mean, not being able to slide your engagement ring into your lover's finger would be quite a blast - in both ways. Perhaps they could release an OVA, or at least maybe a few mini-episodes along the way. But I think that's just not going to be the case.

My hope is that they'll add a fitting closing scene to the series and leave everyone happy at the end.

And well, she has amazed me in the past, although she normally criticizes anime for it's stilyzed portrayal of people, things and etc. But that particular scene always had that depressing feel, but I didn't understand why. I guess people who're really versed in art will get the meaning behind the choice of certain colors right on the spot, whereas common folk like me will just see what's shown in the surface.

tommyKN

2007-09-08, 13:34

this episode realy touched my heart =3
but that's not only because of the scene they showed with Kanata, it's most likely because of the background music at that moment - it was simple and beautiful composed.

I will get this song for sure, hope there is a vocal version too!

edit: i'm very relieved that Kanata has a cute and calm voice, it very fits her. *phew*

Aranu

2007-09-08, 14:00

Wow this was such as touching episode, I did not expect it at all from this series. This is probably my Favorite episode, with the excellent composed music, and finally being able to see Kanata and hear her voice matched what I thought it would be.

Mugen-Hut

2007-09-09, 02:03

I also lost my mother when I was younger, but it was a bit different from konata. At the time I was seven years old and both me and my mother lived in a small apartment. One day coming from school I come back home and call mom. I found her sleeping on the bed, or so I thought. A couple of hours later the landlady came to the apartment, then the police, and the doctors and neighboors... and I didn't knew a thing about death, I was only seven years old.

Death can be so caprichous and ironically while I was unaware about the concept of death while my mother passed I couldn't help but feel depressed and a heartache a couple of years ago when two people close to me died. These two people, despite not being as close to me as the other family members (I am adopted, remember) they were people that I truly admired and respected, heck, as if they were royalty. And just to hear they died made me feel nothing but grief.

Why life is like this? Why death is like this? I kept asking my self only to find the same answer time and time again: life's the way it is, all you have to do is carry on, because, if you keep running away from death you aren't alive at all. In the end, I can't help but go on, hoping to reach my goal to be a mangaka and struggling my way there. There is just no other way.

Now, for a bit of a change of pace I cant help but admire and love Soujirou-san even more now that I find him more of a better person now. It just makes me want to shout it loud

I AM PROUD TO BE AN OTAKU, ARIGATO SOUJIROU-SAN

It proves that not all otakus are the root of all evil and that they are humans like all of us...

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/9885/shufflememories07large0it9.jpg

Isn't that right, Jacky Wu-san?

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-09, 10:08

You can call me a sick man, and I'll understand perfectly. But 10 minutes ago I woke up, and in less than 15 seconds I had the BG song for Kanata's scene playing on repeat in my mind. Let's just say it was like dropping 10 floors down into reinforced cement. The oddity of this is that, yes I've been down because of anime series in the past, and in fact it happens very often. But never for the anime's own sake - It's always because that particular series drove me to think about my own life. In this case, like I've said before, it's just like Kanata had always been a person really close to me and seeing her come back was as much of a shock as if it were someone in my family.

As much as I know it's an anime, I just can't help it.

@Mugen-Hut:

Sorry for your loss. I probably can't even weigh in the loss of a parent because I haven't experienced that yet, although I've had precious people to me pass away in the past. As far as life and death goes, I guess that the fear of death isn't always for your own sake, but for others' sakes. If you take a guy like me, for example, who has no children and no 'special person'. I'm not afraid of dying because I know I'm "clean", even if I understand my family would probably never recover from it. But people with families of their own and responsibility to others might be afraid of death because of what would happen to those they leave behind more than what happens to themselves.

Now, for a bit of a change of pace I cant help but admire and love Soujirou-san even more now that I find him more of a better person now. It just makes me want to shout it loud

I AM PROUD TO BE AN OTAKU, ARIGATO SOUJIROU-SAN

It proves that not all otakus are the root of all evil and that they are humans like all of us...

Wait, you're saying you're an otaku and also stating that they're humans like the rest of us? Where's the sense in that phrase, did I miss it somewhere? :heh:

And I've always been proud of being an otaku. Watching anime taught me a lot, and I can bet you it made me a better person and there's a high chance it did save my life. ( Long story. ) I understand there're some problems within the otaku society and that we all tend to be very eccentric in many ways, but rarely "bad people". Those who don't understand out world might think otherwise, but for us in the inner circle, I can say we understand each-other fairly well.

Ascaloth

2007-09-09, 11:07

The drama of Kanata's life is really bringing out the drama in others' lives, for some unknown reason... :heh:

AVPlaya

2007-09-09, 20:47

I just watched this episode... unbelievable. The Kanata scene is really, really good. I did get emotional watching it. But why did she waited that long to "appear" in their live? She should have been around forever.

As for the lolicon question, I will write something in the defense of people like Souichirou: People like him are not really lolicon. Everyone must understand that girls who look like Kanata, Konata and Yutaka are NOT rare in Japan or rest of East Asia. You can see girls with a child-body or child-like faces quite frequently. Some of them even have the body to head ratio which makes children cute, and some of them even talk like a child (like Aya-chan) naturally. These girls will look and act like this until they are OBASAN.

Now here's the question - do they get married? Do they get boyfriends or admirers? If you deemed guys who like them as Lolicon or perverts, then are these girls forever doomed? IS THAT FAIR? I would say that men who love grown women are not necessarily LOLICON as we define them in the West. Lolicon should only restrict to be men who love young girls. There is a group of guys who really like TINY women, and they will fall in love with WOMEN like Kanata and yes, HAVE SEX WITH THEM. These guys are not lolicon because they will never touch or hurt children. Izumi Soichirou is such a man.

Why do I say that? Because he really love Konata and would never have done anything to her. If you notice, he's only attracted to GROWN WOMEN who looked young, not young girls. In this episode we saw him saying that the feeling of holding Konata is making him doki doki because it feels like holding KANATA should be telling... it's because Konata has turned 18 and is an adult in most country of the world. He loves women with a small body and large head, but he will never touch children. It is only because of men like this can girls like Kanata/Konata find love... if everyone ONLY love tall girls with breasts, then Konata will die single and along, and probably never been born in the first place. People in the West especially think these men are perverts, but they are really NOT.

I say this because I know several girls like Konata personally. There's one girl who called herself NyaNya-chan, stands 143cm tall, weights less than 80 lbs, has the body of a 6th grader (actually many 6th graders today has bigger breast than her), and talk in this unbelievably high pitch similar to Yutaka naturally. She can't even change the way she talk when she's angry, which means when she's angry everyone would laugh at her cuteness. She has these huge eyes and big head too. And she's now, what, 36? Looking and acting the exact same way. You would think it's hard for her to find boyfriends, but actually the opposite is true. Plenty of guys, one of them my good friend, love her. None of these guys are pervs or even otakus; they are just normal guys who happens to love chibi women (many Japanese guys are not exactly tall themselves). Thanks to men like these, it's possible for girls like Konata to find a love life in the future.

I can't believe I took time writing about Lolicon, but this EP moved me a lot. I guess I want to defend men like Soichirou.. they're not the pervy lolicon. They just love them chibi women. In fact I want to say that he came to love chibi girls BECAUSE of Kanata... not the otherway around.

Psycho Power J

2007-09-09, 22:01

Why do I say that? Because he really love Konata and would never have done anything to her. If you notice, he's only attracted to GROWN WOMEN who looked young, not young girls. -snip-Me thinks you forgot about him and his high-end camera during the sports festival. It's undeniable in Soichiro's case. While he's attracted to normal women, he is also a lolicon. ;)

For the rest of your post, I agree with you. Even kiddie-looking women deserves to be loved.

Kyuusai

2007-09-09, 22:12

Unfortunately, I can't cookie you, AVPlaya, but I would if I could.

I think the fact that he and Konata can have such a conversation shows how close their relationship is and how well she understands her father. Likewise, the fact that he can attribute the word to himself shows something about his personality and worldview, in that he can attribute the word to himself absolutely objectively, aware of its literal meaning and ignoring the subjective connotations it can have. ...Of course, it's this personality trait that makes him so creepy to some and which encourages Konata to say that he's likely to be arrested. :D

Me thinks you forgot about him and his high-end camera during the sports festival. It's undeniable in Soichiro's case. While he's attracted to normal women, he is also a lolicon. ;)

Well, not all high school girls are lolis. :p

He just appreciates young girls. And that doesn't necessarily mean in a sexual way, either, but more in the same way that he appreciates his own daughter (I imagine that Soujirou actually has less of an issue with sexual attraction to young women than many far closer-to-normal Japanese men). What's funny about Soujirou is that his completely objective appreciation and/or understanding of certain things is entirely benign, but is easily interpreted by regular folks to be creepy or threatening.

Psycho Power J

2007-09-09, 22:53

Kyuusai

2007-09-09, 22:58

While I don't think Soichiro is the malignant-type, it looks like the influence of anime and manga as well as the games he plays is being overlooked. Especially the doujins. And dating-sims. Shall we go there? :D

I never said that he hadn't been corrupted by his pastimes, just that his corruption is completely peripheral to the issue at hand. :D

Ascaloth

2007-09-09, 23:11

Methinks AVPlaya's forgotten about the scene where the Hiiragi twins go to the Izumi house, and Soujirou was crying because his dream of having lunch with 3 high school girls had come true. :D

Nevertheless though, I do agree with AVPlaya to a certain extent; so I firmly believe that he's a lolicon through and through, but I also think that his lolicon tendencies and his love for Kanata are two different matters altogether.

And I think it's not the first time AVPlaya's brought up NyaNya-chan either, except......Sanjyuuroku-sai desu ka?! Hontouni?! (36?! Really?!)

I want a picture!!! :D

(Wise words from Izumi Soujirou: If the lady in question has a loli body and yet is older than the guy, you might say that the guy likes older women... :D)

Psycho Power J

2007-09-09, 23:12

I never said that he hadn't been corrupted by his pastimes, just that his corruption is completely peripheral to the issue at hand. :D I doubt its peripheral when his interests get involved in everyday life. LOL (I just realized we don't have a :lol: smilie) But I think what makes it a non-issue is that Soichiro is suprisingly well-adjusted to reality, regardless of whether it's the actual issue or not.

Claies

2007-09-09, 23:47

I doubt its peripheral when his interests get involved in everyday life. LOL (I just realized we don't have a :lol: smilie) But I think what makes it a non-issue is that Soichiro is suprisingly well-adjusted to reality, regardless of whether it's the actual issue or not.

I doubt it's involved in everyday life, as Konata herself vouched that he separates work and play very well in that none of his literary works involve such interests.

AVPlaya

2007-09-10, 01:09

Methinks AVPlaya's forgotten about the scene where the Hiiragi twins go to the Izumi house, and Soujirou was crying because his dream of having lunch with 3 high school girls had come true. :D

Yes several folks have brought it up, but I would say that he has a high school girl fetish like most of Japanese male population. Notice that the Hiiragi twins are NOT chibi women... I think most "normal" guys here would cry with joy if Kagami came to YOUR house for dinner.

As for other lolicon-type actions, I have no doubt he as lolicon-fetish, meaning he gets off sexually seeing chibi women. After all, he won't be able to have sex with his own wife if he doesn't. But he's not a person with real lolita-complex, which is a man who only prefer young (In Japan, young = under 13) girls. Souichirou has never touched a young girl in real life. He has sexual fantasies about girls with young-ish feature, but he won't never act on it (aside with a grown women). I'm sure all of us has sexual fetishes we would never, ever act in real life; Japanese are just very realistic in admitting the existence of the fetish and separating them from real life.

I also think that his lolicon tendencies and his love for Kanata are two different matters altogether.

In the good old days of otaku dom, there's very little lolicon. It's rise (and the rise of the romance games in general) is really within the last 10 years or so. I doubt Souichirou is "corrupted" the same manner a young otaku would be today. Remember he and Kanata grew up together. It's likely he loved her since they were actual children themselves. It's not they meet after they're both grown ups and he went out looking for a chibi women. I say this because I know a some guys who swore they'd never date such a women, became a sort of lolicon after they've dated or married one. This one other chibi women I knew (145cm) dated a 6-2 dude"; that guy started out checking out short girls with flat chest after they broke up. I still wonder about certain "details"...

And I think it's not the first time AVPlaya's brought up NyaNya-chan either, except......Sanjyuuroku-sai desu ka?! Hontouni?! (36?! Really?!)

I want a picture!!! :D

MURI DA! She would absolutely torture me to death (with her chibi voice) for mentioning her in this manner.. on the INTARWEB! Pictures? I might as well just kill myself. Fear the wrath of the Chibi! She hated people mentioning her chibi features. But she also liked big guys because they "matched" better... whatever. I just like to see her sing in Karaoke; imagine Tsukasa singing in a Konata body; that's her.

723

2007-09-10, 04:21

Notice that the Hiiragi twins are NOT chibi women... I think most "normal" guys here would cry with joy if Kagami came to YOUR house for dinner.

You are soooo right X3. And if you really want to feel like Souchiro, imagine that not only Kagamin, but also two kawaii girls such as Tsukasa and Konata are with you xD.

MURI DA! She would absolutely torture me to death (with her chibi voice) for mentioning her in this manner.. on the INTARWEB! Pictures? I might as well just kill myself. Fear the wrath of the Chibi! She hated people mentioning her chibi features. But she also liked big guys because they "matched" better... whatever. I just like to see her sing in Karaoke; imagine Tsukasa singing in a Konata body; that's her.

AVPlaya, I think you shouldn't have mentioned her here. She is going to be like a leyend on the forum xD. Just invite her to join the discussion xD.

deathreape98

2007-09-10, 05:55

this episode was HILARIOUS, 1000/10

"why would mom choose you? you're a perverted lolicon otaku"

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-10, 08:45

I think most "normal" guys here would cry with joy if Kagami came to YOUR house for dinner.

I know I would!

And well, if you ask me, I never thought Soujirou to have a bad character. In fact, I've always admired him to a large extent, especially now after Episode 22. Why? Well, a number of factors, but probably the one that drives me to respect him the most is that he's a grown up, old guy who still has that young, playful and 'innocent' soul he's known for. Someone who's managed to succeed in life even if he's been through many hardships is always deserving of respect.

As for the lolicon factor, I think that it's really misinterpreted by both normal people and otaku alike. To me, in the otaku lingo, lolicon means liking >anime< girls who look like, well, girls. To that extent, I'm a lolicon. I'm a whore for Fate-chan, in love with Satoko and Rika-chama makes me go dokidoki~. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'll go to my brothers' sports events to take pictures of elementary/middle school girls in gym shorts so that I can go home at night and giggity. Do I find young girls cute? Yeah, but who doesn't? In a sexual way? Hell no.

Obviously, the term "loli" can be used in many ways, but I'm just throwing my own understanding of it out there.

Soujirou is a man and an otaku. The majority of anime series are >made< exactly for people like him, people like me and a great number of you. And we all know that one of the most "successful" attention-hooks used in anime is a cute, loli-like character who has accidental pantyshots every once in a while or who likes the hero, or who hates the hero, or who has all of these factors combined into a Runa-chan/Louise-type of character. I wouldn't find it hard for him to have been influenced by anime up to the point where his love for Kanata escalates into a liking for chibi/loli women and then into the anime-derived lolita complex that he's so "proud of". Is he clingy to Konata? Yeah, we all know that, but does he have any sexual desires for her? I would bet no, and I also bet that she knows that very well, but knowing her personality, she would pick on him for being so close to her all the time up until he snapped. But again, since Konata's and Soujirou's personality seem to add up like a piece of a puzzle, one complements the other.

Well, tell me if you didn't make sense of what I'm saying, because I think I deviated from the main point quite a few times here and there... But oh well.

MURI DA! She would absolutely torture me to death (with her chibi voice) for mentioning her in this manner.. on the INTARWEB! Pictures? I might as well just kill myself. Fear the wrath of the Chibi! She hated people mentioning her chibi features. But she also liked big guys because they "matched" better... whatever. I just like to see her sing in Karaoke; imagine Tsukasa singing in a Konata body; that's her.

Well, as much as I'd like to see that person, I understand why she wouldn't want to have her picture posted on an anime discussion board. Personally I don't like my own pictures roaming on the internet, so let's give her a little privacy. And as for having her join the discussion... Uhm, that would obviously add to the cultural references and factors, but I guess AVPlaya would need to come up with large sums of money to pay for his hospital bill. As for her becoming a legend.. Tsukasa voice with Konata body? Legend? THIS IS SPAR.. I mean, Animesuki.

Ascaloth

2007-09-10, 10:54

Yes several folks have brought it up, but I would say that he has a high school girl fetish like most of Japanese male population. Notice that the Hiiragi twins are NOT chibi women... I think most "normal" guys here would cry with joy if Kagami came to YOUR house for dinner.

Well yes, but even I would be wary of declaring my joy so openly in front of my daughter's friends. :heh:

As for other lolicon-type actions, I have no doubt he as lolicon-fetish, meaning he gets off sexually seeing chibi women. After all, he won't be able to have sex with his own wife if he doesn't. But he's not a person with real lolita-complex, which is a man who only prefer young (In Japan, young = under 13) girls. Souichirou has never touched a young girl in real life. He has sexual fantasies about girls with young-ish feature, but he won't never act on it (aside with a grown women). I'm sure all of us has sexual fetishes we would never, ever act in real life; Japanese are just very realistic in admitting the existence of the fetish and separating them from real life.

Funny, I always thought that "lolicon" in Japan didn't necessarily mean that the man in question likes young girls to the exlusion of all else.....Oh wait, what am I saying? Like Soujirou himself said, "I am also a lolicon". :heh:

MURI DA! She would absolutely torture me to death (with her chibi voice) for mentioning her in this manner.. on the INTARWEB! Pictures? I might as well just kill myself. Fear the wrath of the Chibi! She hated people mentioning her chibi features. But she also liked big guys because they "matched" better... whatever. I just like to see her sing in Karaoke; imagine Tsukasa singing in a Konata body; that's her.

Oh, keep an open mind, dude! I'm pretty sure that is what The Great Otaku Sage Izumi Soujirou meant when he said "death by moe". What's not to like?! :D

(Joking, of course. You know I'll never insist that you put yourself in mortal peril. :heh:)

Anh_Minh

2007-09-10, 11:32

I think Soujiro does like young girls... Maybe not sexually, but they make him go all "moe!". It has nothing to do with him being an otaku, he just likes loli. And he's unapologetic about it.

However, he's too much of a nice guy to hurt them. He may do some creepy things like taking pictures, and, judging by Konata's habits, probably puts them in albums to look at once in a while, but it won't go further. Well, he'll also troll for hugs from Konata and Yutaka whenever he can, too.

But I don't think one should underestimate his liking of lolis.

Risaa

2007-09-10, 11:52

Anh_Minh

2007-09-10, 12:38

I don't.

Certainly not to the extent he does.

kenjiharima

2007-09-10, 13:04

well in a few episodes back he's jealous of the pervert in the new that is harassing girls, one reason why Konata doesn't look up to him, but copies his Otaku ways.

I conclusion he really likes young girls. Though middle aged(40'sh) he's still a handsome guy and he also has a loli face.

darksider

2007-09-10, 13:32

well in a few episodes back he's jealous of the pervert in the new that is harassing girls, one reason why Konata doesn't look up to him, but copies his Otaku ways.

Ah, you're talking about ep.14? That is one of the very few but critical mistranslation the fansubber made.
What he said actually was "Man, you should be jealous of me."
And, it looks like he's satisfied with all the girls around, and of course it won't be respected anyway.

kenjiharima

2007-09-10, 13:38

Ah, you're talking about ep.14? That is one of the very few but critical mistranslation the fansubber made.
What he said actually was "Man, you should be jealous of me."
And, it looks like he's satisfied with all the girls around, and of course it won't be respected anyway.

Oh! It's a miss translation. Well now my respects have gone higher for Mr.Izumi if that's the case. Konata should do more father daughter bonding, makes him more
respectable. Just don't show him any new loli material or anime LOL :heh:

Vexx

2007-09-10, 14:02

That's why.... you shouldn't always just assume the translation is correct or even close. Missing a tense or a qualification of the base statement is easy... but then there's also the "information that never originally was there" (changing dialog entirely to avoid using a footnote to explain a reference, for example).

Ultima_Rasengan05

2007-09-12, 05:33

The second half of this episode was pretty interesting and really emotional for a high-spirited and fun show. It had that kind of tone that was shown in Kanon. Although it was good to learn some background information about Konata's parents and especially for Konata's mom, Kanata.
so in this episode, the reason Kanata passed away was because she gave birth?
10/10

Zero Shinohara

2007-09-12, 08:16

so in this episode, the reason Kanata passed away was because she gave birth?

We've discussed about this quite a bit in the past few pages, so you might wanna check those out. The reason she passed away isn't clear at this moment, but it could have something to do with birth complications or some type of pre-existing complication that she had. Giving birth is always hard for small women like Kanata, so I think that gives us a good hint as to what caused her death.

kenjiharima

2007-09-12, 08:22

can that imply also with Konata and Yutaka? Since their small...no wait had got a neighbor before with 7 children and she's only 4'10 or something...

AVPlaya

2007-09-12, 10:05

Another thing that shocked me about EP22 other than Kanata, is the fact that Konata FOLLOWS PRO BASEBALL. She actually knows about last year's Japan series. She actually watched Yu Darvish and the Fighters defeat the Dragons? I can't get my head wrapped around that. She's supposed to be the baseball-hating otaku! My theory is that Soujirou watches it (I think EP20 or 21 has him watching baseball while Konata tinkers with the VCR), so Konata, being so close with her dad, watches with him out of love only. But STILL, it's unbelievable, and still doesn't explain how she keeps up with Nanako-sensei's favorite team, the Chiba Lotte Marines. I guess everyone in Katsukabe HS should be cheering for the Marines since their Ace pitcher came from their school, but still.. Konata? Maybe again Soujirou cheers for the Marines and she follows them with him; I know that it's a habit for Giants-hating folks in the greater Tokyo area to cheer for the Marines (no one really care for the Yakult Swallows) But STILL, KONATA WATCHING BASEBALL? HAS THE WOLRD GONE MAD?

EDIT: changing his name... I used to know a guy named Souichirou so...

darksider

2007-09-12, 10:58

AVPlaya

2007-09-12, 12:47

Ah, one thing, his name is Soujirou.

And about the baseball... I don't think Konata hates baseball really that much (as long as it doesn't interfere with her hobby), and information about baseball is sort of unavoidable if you watch TV in Japan. And, how can you watch the anime you want if you don't know when the baseball game ends?

Knowing and watching the game are two different thing though... a lot of people in the US knows about football, but that doesn't mean they'll sit an entire afternoon watching big men hitting each other. Being a sporty girl I'm sure she knows all about the rules, but I can't see her enjoying it. I'm actually surprised to see Soujirou watching it actually, being an old time otaku himself. In a school with baseball teams, the social hierarchy works similar to the US - the jocks gets all the attention (and girls), while the nerds (otaku) gets picked on by the jocks. The hatred for baseball and baseball player starts young for the male otaku.

But I guess as you age, you go with the flow... it's like how you start to sing enka when you're older... it just goes with age I guess. Plus the Marines did win the 2005 series with the popular ex-Met manager Bobby Valentine at the helm (I still subscribe to his "Bobby's Way" newsletter), and they did get a lot of new fans after that. Bobby asked the 2005 WS winner White Sox for a "True World Series" that year by playing against his Lotte Marines, and MLB declined. The entire nation of Japan was grateful for that, and Nanako-sensei was talking about that - MLB champs are not true world champs until they've played the Japan Series champ. I sincerely agree with that notion. You can't say you're world champs unless you've actually played the world.

Vexx

2007-09-12, 14:38

Aye, I've been asking that "World Series" question since I was a little kid....

(hey, dad, where are the teams from the OTHER countries?)

Calawain

2007-09-12, 16:24

Aye, I've been asking that "World Series" question since I was a little kid....

(hey, dad, where are the teams from the OTHER countries?)

They have Canadians! :p

And that's news to me, I had no idea Bobby Valentine managed in Japan, he certainly had quite the up and down experience here in New York. Some random scandals aside he did coach them to the 2000 Subway Series (New York vs New York World Series) so it was a decent tenure. However, I highly doubt the MLB would agree to have the World Series champions play the Japan Series champs, they stand to lose too much if the MLB team loses. On a side note, is there much difference in the rules between American and Japanese professional baseball? I would assume not, baseball is pretty straightforward, but you never know.

Shiroi Hane

2007-09-15, 09:48

Well, considering that the anime's world is pretty up-to-date with the current releases ( I.e.: Code Geass, FMP! TSR and Sigma ), I'd say they try to create a "As it happens" type of world. It's probably late august/september as of episode 22, but don't quote me on that.
There was an earlier episode that could be dated to April 2007 - the episode was set in April (Start of the school year) and a Kiddy Grade Ignition poster appeared on Konata's wall. Not to mention the Haruhi concert which gives an exact date for the episode that featured in.

And in Episode 22, there's a scene showing Soujirou working on a laptop while Kanata brings him some tea and a few onigiri. Laptops weren't invented at the time too, probably, so I'd guess they are more concerned with giving the viewer a pleasant experience than being always 100% historically correct.
I remember having a laptop-like device quite a long time ago which my parents called a ワードプロ. It had a screen and I think one can save a document. That might have existed back then. It also had a printer if I remeber correctly.
I have an NEC8201 portable computer that comes from Japan, and dates to the early 80s. I think there was something similar from HP or Sharp or someone like that which had a built-in printer similar to that on a cash register.

shinku no kage

2007-09-20, 00:50

Being gone for about two weeks I finally get back to watching the remaining eps of the series...

ep.22....its been a while since an anime made me cry. This ep has its great moments...a lot of it.

Kanata-san, although you've only "appeared" just this once you'll not be easily forgotten.

AVPlaya

2007-09-20, 16:20

On a side note, is there much difference in the rules between American and Japanese professional baseball? I would assume not, baseball is pretty straightforward, but you never know.

Didn't catch this until now.. gomen. Pro baseball in Japan are pretty much the same as the US, with a few minor differences like they allow the use of aluminum bats and everyone bow to each other after the game. They also count strikes before balls. HS baseball are different in that you are allowed to tie after 15 innings, and if tie breakers is needed you play the game again next day. Everything else is pretty much the same; that's why Japan Pro players can play in the majors right away if they're good enough.

Vexx

2007-09-20, 16:58

I find the most fascinating thing about japanese baseball is the audience participation :)

darksider

2007-09-20, 17:07

I find the most fascinating thing about japanese baseball is the audience participation :)

And many Japanese find it to be the most annoying part...
They are all too noisy when you just want to watch the game. :cool:

Ahasuerus

2007-09-20, 17:33

And many Japanese find it to be the most annoying part...
They are all too noisy when you just want to watch the game.

:hmm: ... Kind of like "The Wave" *groan*

Don't get me started :twitch:

Just Play Ball!

So, who wants to take Kona-chan to her first ballgame? :heh:

AVPlaya

2007-09-20, 18:13

I find the most fascinating thing about japanese baseball is the audience participation :)

Yes I love it too... Many goes to the ball park just for the festival feeling. This stems from high school baseball games, where everyone in the stands are counted as the "Oendan" or cheer squad. They just carried it over to the pro games. I don't know THAT many hated it as darksider said, but I know some baseball-hating girls who just goes to the game just to scream. It's not easy to find a place where you can raise your voice without public shame. :)

Here's a nice little video of a treasured tradition for the Hanshin Tigers. During the 7th Inning stretch, the Tiger fans all sang the Hanshin Tigers Fight Song, Rokko Oroshi, and then release the Tigers Ballon to the air. If you ever wanted to visit Haruhi's home town of Nishinomiya City, you'd best visit Koshien Stadium and attend a Tigers game. Feel the passion of the Kansai folks!

q2cyCGBEtPQ

Calawain

2007-09-23, 11:58

I find the most fascinating thing about japanese baseball is the audience participation :)

What type of audience participation? And do you mean just in High School? I just went to a Yankees vs Red Sox game a couple of weeks ago and there was plenty of uh, "audience participation" I guess you could call it. Many cheers, boos, and nasty words were yelled out as well as a couple of game ejections in our seating area.

Vexx

2007-09-23, 12:28

I just went to a Yankees vs Red Sox game a couple of weeks ago and there was plenty of uh, "audience participation" I guess you could call it. Many cheers, boos, and nasty words were yelled out as well as a couple of game ejections in our seating area.

No, that's just monkey poo throwing no better than some soccer/rugby audiences and makes me embarrassed to even watch such infantile behavior.

The japanese fans are like an entire organized cheering squad. Its fascinating to watch and it happens in the professional leagues even more than in high school.

Ascaloth

2007-09-24, 08:09

I should ask you a few more things about Japanese society in general, Vexx-sensei. I'm taking a Japanese Studies module right now, and the Hanshin Tiger fan clubs just happened to be the topic of one of my readings a few weeks ago. :heh:

I certainly think you can be of great assistance to my studies, Vexx-sensei. ;)
Watashi wa Ascaloth desu! Dozo yoroshiku onegaishimasu! :p

Pell14

2007-09-25, 01:59

EP22 is probably the best ep in lucky star to me. the most boring ep is probably ep1, whats up with the chanting on the food lol? the ending song of ep22 is also rofl, i kind of pity the guy LOL

Vexx

2007-09-25, 02:55

@ascaloth: actually, kj1980 is better at gritty details of pop culture and daily life, AVPlaya seems to have "normal mundane" life nailed.
And I've always been more interested in 'cultural daily life' anyway (no matter what country we're discussing).

And... Risaa is going to be living there now at her new university so you can get the scuttle from an "on site" gaijin genki-na onnanoko.

But feel free to ask away and discover the gaps in my understanding :)

@Pell14: check the comments in the episode 1 thread... in summary, the food gag is a long-running mild punchline (like a George Burns five minute gag).
1) Note how obsessive Konata comes back to the original question.
2) Note Tsukasa like mayo on *everything* ... this is like a Japanese local psychosis, they love mayo (on natto?? o... my... gods... )
3) Wordplay humor lost in a.f.k. translation (the chicken-egg-family remarks)
4) We discover Konata can cook (negi-tan shio)
5) We discover Miyuki is Walking Wikipedia.
6) Unseen sister Kagami is assertive
7) and on and on ....

In other words, small talk reveals much to the observant person.

Ascaloth

2007-09-26, 03:02

And... Risaa is going to be living there now at her new university so you can get the scuttle from an "on site" gaijin genki-na onnanoko.

...you're making me imagine her doing the Patricia Martin genki-na gaijin-otaku voice there. :heh:

Risaa

2007-09-26, 16:27

And... Risaa is going to be living there now at her new university so you can get the scuttle from an "on site" gaijin genki-na onnanoko.What would you like to know? How *AWESOME* the cell phones are? How cheap every meal has been so far? How... damned humid it is here? XD I answer from a new gaijin perspective, of course. :)
...you're making me imagine her doing the Patricia Martin genki-na gaijin-otaku voice there. :heh:
....I've been getting mixed responses when I speak. There's a lot of, "heeee..." in astonishment type of reactions. :heh: Only one person has taken action against me, and she immediately ran off to get me natto. (No worries though, I impressed her by passing the natto tesuto! Maybe she was disappointed that I didn't make a funny face...)

Whoops, totally off-topic post eh? :heh:

Anh_Minh

2007-09-26, 16:36

I thought the cost of living in Japan was high? Is that a legend?

Vexx

2007-09-27, 00:36

The cost of living in Japan depends on how you choose to live. You can get by quite nicely by with some adjustment to expectations. Plenty of good cheap restaurants, housing is no worse than an apartment in any big city (just smaller). For visitors, traditional inns will set you back no worse than a Super 8 in the states and they're much prettier.

Now if you do the Tokyo high life at the five star hotel and demand beef with every meal and your own bath suite.... yeah, it costs a fortune.

Nuke Mayhem

2007-09-27, 23:47

*cries loud and uncontrollably over the mother scene* That was so sweeeet! ';_;' and well done! It didn't drag itself down with overdone crying scenes and drama, and they're still able to make it as funny as it is sweet.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/Nuke-Mayhem/1190691030163.jpg

CrowKenobi

2007-10-03, 19:36

a.f.k. sub of 22 is out!! :D

:cool:

Jecht2

2007-10-03, 20:27

a.f.k. sub of 22 is out!! :D

:cool:

Woo Hoo... now alls i have to do is wait 8 hrs to download it... damn Internet cap being blown.

Ayu-ayu

2007-10-04, 16:29

I've been avoiding these threads until seeing the AFK versions so as to avoid spoilers and I'm glad I did this time. Not only because the second act was so great and unexpected, but I was so surprised by Shimamoto Sumi's guest appearance. When Kanata first appeared, I thought to myself that she sounded a lot like Sumire-chan from Koko wa Greenwood, whom Shimamoto-san also guest-appeared as (fitting given the Cagliostro parody in the show not to mention a description of Hasukawa-kun at one point in the manga as resembling "Teto"), but just figured it was my imagination. I missed the voice credits afterwards due to Minoru-run-run's singing game shenanigans, but during the episode preview for 23, when she made the "wind turbulence" reference from Nausicaa, I fell out of my chair and went back and checked the credits then. :heh:

Oh KyoAni, you devils...
(so looking forward to Clannad)

khryoleoz

2007-10-06, 04:16

Man, I'm at a loss in what to say about the Kanata segment. Let's see...it was just beautifully touching. Great job, KyoAni for this adaptation!

takumi2k4

2007-10-07, 00:09

Wow, rewatching this episode with AFK's subs reminds of how L*S, or this episode specifically made me decide to call L*S the best anime of the year.

While I didn't cry manly tears like before, I did choke up though on my hamburger that I was eating.

My thoughts are still the same from when I posted it back then, but I have to say again, it still is amazing how a blatant over the top comedy can go drama on you for at least 10 minutes and completely own every aspect of it.

I miss L*S, I demand a second season shortly after Haruhi 2 is out!

FoxHound9

2007-10-07, 01:23

10/10
The Kanata scene almost left me in tears :')

Albin

2007-10-09, 04:53

Awesome ep! Teary eyes mixed with great jokes :D loved it! best episode in a while

MaxwellDemon

2007-10-11, 08:11

I just watched this episode recently, and have had it rewinding for days. XD
And it still moves me like crazy. :(

I do hope the upcoming BGM would feature the music played in the Kanata scene!

The Chaos

2007-12-21, 05:56

This The Best Ep of Lucky Star....
Less Comedy More Drama...
I Loved This Ep a lot ....:D

Dee Eon

2008-02-10, 16:47

A Thread about my Fave Lucky Star character!

I want to comment that you all have been invaluable in my enjoying the show because my first encounter with ep 22 was thru some terribly translated fansubs which you all have straightened out for me and made sense of some very tender scenes! Thank you - thank you! Well, allow me to jump in late with an issue dear to my character -- mainly Kanata's untimely demise! There're lots of theories here on this so I'll toss mine into the pot!

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a violent accident because her passing isn't regarded with that tone of abrupt tragedy or grief it seems, but rather with the solemnness of expectancy. Accidental causes are usually mentioned to as death (at least more in the U.S.) more overtly than cause by disease or health reasons. Though I can't be sure of course, I highly suspect that there's some heredity flaw going on here (the health failings doesn't hit Konata outside needing medication when in cars at least). The clue's in cousin Yutaka's worrisome sickliness and slight but cute harelip and stinted stature, and in Sōjirō's flashback at the beach, at first he and Kanata are running for the sand with joy then in next scene they're leaving with him concernedly watching her wiping her brow as though in exhaustion, and she's always outside with that broad sunbonnet (sun stroke prone too?). Ditto by his face at her lethargy on their immediate train ride back. In the family portrait Konata appears as a babe of four or five months at least judging by her size and hair, and there are teasing hints that Konata may've even been a toddler at Kanata's passing (the flash scene of Sōjirō kneeling with a toddler Konata at a temple as if at a wake?), so even moreso it most likely wasn't any birth complication. That Yutaka changed residence to be closer to school might hint that Yui and Sōjirō are more concerned of a hereditary weakness than they're telling.

So much for my take! Now some have not only theories on this, but even challenge the whole notion that Kanata's even really "gone" (wistful wishes me)! :

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4005755/1/

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4034138/1/

But then, I'm sure Kyoto is well aware just how pop Kanata is in death and maybe they've sitting on their sleeves all kinds of ways to feature her in some speculative future features. I'd watch it just see how the heck Kanata ever hooked up with a guy like Sōjiro since I doubt they were truly childhood friends by the sense of the term (BOTH of you don't have to be children to be a childhood friend, right?) ;)

Dee

Rion Steiner

2008-02-13, 18:46

Dee Eon

2008-02-14, 20:51

Your fanfic's imagery was pretty good, keep up the good work.

Thanks! Had I known they'd be so well received I would've worked much longer/harder on them! Kanata caught my throat and chest more than any other character in anime and I felt we were cheated of getting to know her.

As flipped-out and far-out as the cryogenics story seemed, it's in fact based on actual companies into post-death "suspended animation" services since the seventies. This fact made writing it feel even more eerie than Kanata's Out-of-Body/Time story (you know, "truth is stranger than fiction"). I'd like to think that Sōjirō's so unorthodox and deeply in love that he would've sought that last-ditch chance to save Kanata. That we don't truly know whether Kanata's in an urn or coffin makes this a "back door" for Kanata's return a fascinating option for "Lucky Star" I think! :)

The thing that got me a little was that Konata was way too different in your second story,

True, it's almost impossible to predict fates, but I think had Kanata survived her illness she would've markedly matured just to keep from being smothered by Sōjirō's weirdness and macho. (check out Kanata and Sōjirō's doing the episode 23 preview at the very end of ep 22). On my my first viewing I took Kanata for a doormat mate, but when she said she wished baby Konata wouldn't resemble either of them I sensed she already had a budding core of defiance. Kanata's a peach; soft and sweet on the outside but a stony-pit at the core, and would've grown so to counter lolicon Sōjirō's influence on their kids.

like the growth hormones,

I fell back on real-life (American) experiences with pediatric growth hormones and the sharp drop in stinted growth in school children which suggests to me that Kanata also would've done anything to keep Konata from sharing her condition. It's no fun being a "midget" and I can't imagine any parent who'd let a kid suffer that life if they can help it.

Boyfriends,

Under Kanata's watch, Konata's bound to have a boyfriend by 17 (sorry Kagami!). I'm also certain that Kanata would've nipped Konata's otakus-ism in the bud at a very early age and groomed Konata into a young lady the equal of Miyuki. That doesn't mean Konata wouldn't a gamer, especially with Sōjirō under the same roof, but she'd been far far less an addict as seen in the anime or manga.

Im pretty sure Kanata would want a second child.

Sorry Konata's brother was given such a fleeting part, but then I hadn't been writing in depth at the time. In fact there two other little ones I missed falling out of that final draft I guess.

her language being less utakuish.

I'd certainly like to correct that, only I'm not Japanese enough to have that language style sense.

Do you have or know any other good fanfics out there? Im looking up on FanFiction.net and I found a few of them so far.

Mm.... I did do a "sequel" to Ep 22 that's immediately after the camera shadow gag fade out. It's kind of crude but see if I can post it this weekend. I might consider a possible expanded rewrite of "Kanata's Dream" though to fill out an interesting background for Kanata. In fact I once toyed with the idea of actually writing a "Lucky Star Plus Kanata" light novel that'd remain consistent with what I mentioned above yet keep true with the elements we love of the Izumi family (a tiny otakus Konata). I did whip up a "cheat" of a solution, but that project really needs a wide waiting audience for me to feel it's worthwhile. Ironically, I think Kanata would steal the show in such stories because you can play a lot on her daughter-twin looks and Geisha-like demeanor. I also have two old Powerpuff Girls Z spin-off stories up. I always listen to feedback and weave good ones into my stories. It feels so like "community" doing so!

Take care!

Dee
http://luckystarfans.com/

Hayatso

2008-02-14, 21:46

i like more cap 19

Tamura Debute XD

but... I laughed at the minute 04:17 and 08:31 XD

Konata: And that thought while I watched Miyuki, but I thought that you also sleep a lot, and still not far Yu-chan

Tsukasa:
Sure say that I speak a lot on myself, but that does not matter to me

Kaioshin Sama

2008-07-21, 02:00

Hmmmm, looking back at this episode I really just can't say much about the whole Kanata moment that got everyone so worked up. It's sort of just there (no reason it had to come in this episode over any other episode) and then not and then ceases to have any real relevance to anything before or after the series, just like most of the scenes. I can't say I ever really felt anything either way because Kanata wasn't even really all that important before or after the scene other then she was supposed to have been Konata's mother. I'm not entirely sure what I was supposed to feel when she showed up as I literally knew nothing at all about the character. Sadness, melancholy, excitement. Like what? Unlike other folks I couldn't just go through the motions of feeling emotional (I know I was supposed to feel something) without some incentive.

There's a difference between intent and execution and with this scene I don't see how they really could have executed in a manner that made me care about Kanata's appearance either way. It kind of feels to me that Kyoani was realizing that the series was nearing it's end and that they needed to do something a little extra with it that would make fans remember something more then the Otaku-centric stuff that dominated the middle portion of the series and thus the scene was sort of shoehorned in in the hopes that the fans would just react in the way they think was expected. It looks like it worked.

Anyway, I remember comparing it to Kodomo No Jikan, but I felt that the scene I compared it to had a lot more poignancy, Aki being a character we actually got to know her a little in a flashback. Would have helped tremendously if they had done something like that with Kanata at an earlier point in the series.

Vexx

2008-07-21, 16:27

Kaioshin Sama

2008-07-21, 23:16

Well... the scene actually comes from the source material. The 4-koma Lucky*Star devoted part of a chapter presenting essentially the same material. And every instance of referring to Kona's mom is from the 4-koma series. Even most of the "dad-Kona" scenes in the series come from the 4-koma (though specific product line mentions were usually added item).

So.... if there's a weakness in the presentation, it was there in the original material. I suspect KyoAni figured this late in the series was a good place for the sequence of mom-haunting because people were attached enough to Kona-dad and Konata and they'd seen dad's flashback of his life with his wife.

Myself, I was most fond of dad fondly recalling his time dating and being married to her - more than the later ghostly sequence itself.

Me too actually. The nostalgic feel he gives to it was really the only part that I felt had any strong feeling to it. Konata didn't really give anything. Then again I've always found her to be a rather shallow character that doesn't really seem to be created for anything other then marketing interests so that's not too surprising. Soijirou was actually one of my more preferred characters, so as with Miyuki he got minimal screentime. :mad:

Kagami~n

2008-07-22, 13:32

I also found Soujirou's memories to be the most tearjerking things from the episode. Usually those left behind are the things that are saddest about a person's death. It was nice to see a little of Kanata. I kind of wish that we could have learned a little more of her personality, but I understand that time is short. Was her appearance as a ghost also a part of the 4koma, or did the anime add that in?

On the subject of Konata, I acutally kind of liked how her mother's death didn't really affect her. Much more commonly seen are characters who angst (publically or privately) about the deaths of their parents. It's true that we're unlikely to find someone who will be that emotionally detatched from such a thing, but most stories don't stop to consider that maybe a kid doesn't miss her mom because she never knew her. Maybe she doesn't always wish she had one because she's happy with how her dad raised her. It was a change of pace for me, and it kept Lucky Star from being too dramatic. Konata, like the viewer, was just there to listen. She was also there to be healthy and happy and make Kanata happy.

I happen to like Konata's character very much, so I can be forgiving of her shallow character aspects. I didn't really come into this show looking for depth. :P

One of my favorite parts was remembering Konata's birth, with her mother going "Well as long as she doesn't get my height or your personality..."

Anh_Minh

2008-07-22, 13:37

Yeah. Konata said it herself. Instead of being too busy grieving to take care of her, like a lot of anime widowers, Soujirou doted on her. The unfortunate side effect is that she became an irresponsible otaku, but at least she never felt neglected. I'm sure there must have been a few tough moments, but she didn't dwell on that. And what was she to say? "Yes, father, I cry myself to sleep every night because I don't have a mom. You're a horrible person for letting her die."?

Vexx

2008-07-22, 17:17

I also found Soujirou's memories to be the most tearjerking things from the episode. ... Was her appearance as a ghost also a part of the 4koma, or did the anime add that in?

I happen to like Konata's character very much, so I can be forgiving of her shallow character aspects. I didn't really come into this show looking for depth. :P

One of my favorite parts was remembering Konata's birth, with her mother going "Well as long as she doesn't get my height or your personality..."

Konata's appearance, references about her, and the lines of dialog and the humor are directly from the 4-koma; hardly anything was "anime only" outside of the mysterous intro moment.
Soujirou's recollections were also directly from the 4-koma.
This was almost pure Lucky*Star rather than any "Kyo-ani marketing" like a fair amount of the series suffered under.

And of course, the "height, personality" gag is one of the funny bits.

If I get cranky enough, maybe I should scan the specific strips....