[Manga] Claymore Extra Chapter 3 Discussion

[NoSanninWa]

Welcome to the monthly discussion thread for Claymore, Chapter ES 3. As this is the first time a chapter discussion was created for Claymore please discuss all prior chapters in the generic manga discussion.

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After episode 73 was published in the last volume of Shounen Monthly Jump the mangaka, Yagi-sensei, decided to take a break from continuing the story to release various side stories. This chapter is the third of four extra chapters that are being released monthly in Shounen Weekly Jump until Claymore is moved to a new monthly magazine. These chapters feature side stories that took place in the past. It is expected that they will be done after 4 episodes and then chapter 74 will be published.

Chapter ES 4 will be released in October, a month from now.

[NoSanninWa]

My first reaction to this chapter: We've been told that Priscilla is powerful, now we've been shown how powerful she really is. She destroyed half of Isley's body in a single hit! It is really hard to imagine what could do that much damage. I guess she's the real deal after all.

[killer3000ad]

Anyways, a lot of simliarities between Miata and Priscilla in their mental capacity. Both have regressed to infancy stage which appears to give them much increased power. We've seen Miata tear yoma's apart with bare hands, and now we see Prissy dish out the pain against Rigald and Isley, both nearly godlike in their own right until they met Prissy.

I am thinking, the way many infants cry uncontrolibly, the same way both Miata and Prissy are uncontrollable in their power output.

[superzombie23]

^^^ OMG you beat me :mad:, both of you.

This one is about Priscilla and Isley, right? I guess so after reading the top posts lol. Reading it now...

Pretty good I guess.

[NoSanninWa]

I am thinking, the way many infants cry uncontrolibly, the same way both Miata and Prissy are uncontrollable in their power output.

That is an interesting comparison between the two of them. I wonder if it is actually relevant. Perhaps there is a correlation between mental state and ability to generate youki?

[Hamstadini]

Can you imagine if those two ever met and became playmates? *Shudder* The world would end.

[superzombie23]

Can someone refresh my memory about Miata. She's the girl that's becoming the new "eye" of the org? And is she hunting down Galatea with what's her name that got milked lmao?

[Hamstadini]

She's not the new "eye." I think that's Lune, who we haven't seen yet. Miata is the number 4 who has the super five senses, and can track someone even while on yoma suppressants.

[emu777]

Maita was paired with clarice the Orgs # 47 to take down galatea(apparently as an act of mercy:eyebrow:), as for this extra it seems funny that old super kitty(a.k.a Ricardo:D) was beaten to the point of submission by priscilla and STILL managed to lose an arm:p

[Anh_Minh]

I wonder if Easley could have won?

Sure, we're told that the more she's wounded, the stronger she gets, and she can deal devastating attacks... But she doesn't seem that aggressive, and it seems to me that one decisive blow to the head could kill her. If he was able to run her through the chest, he ought be able to do the same with the skull.

[superzombie23]

I wonder if Easley could have won?

Sure, we're told that the more she's wounded, the stronger she gets, and she can deal devastating attacks... But she doesn't seem that aggressive, and it seems to me that one decisive blow to the head could kill her. If he was able to run her through the chest, he ought be able to do the same with the skull.

It's just one one of those things you can't see till you read it over again. Plus, Isley is not savage enough to kill her.

[Flar]

When I read the chapter, Priscilla made me think more of Ophelia than Miata. The main characteristic of both is that they are in severe denial of their awakened state.

In the case of Priscilla, it even seems she's trying to suppress her youki power. Except to eat, she didn't attack first, and when attacked, she didn't go all out, only winning against Isley because of some sort of reflex.

That may be why Riful wants Galatea or Clare, she wants to turn Priscilla back to human and then kill her... because Priscilla has that core grudge against yomas. It would really be like with Ophelia or Jean, they preferred to die than stay a monster?

[superzombie23]

She's not the new "eye." I think that's Lune, who we haven't seen yet. Miata is the number 4 who has the super five senses, and can track someone even while on yoma suppressants.

What's the difference between the power the "eye" has and the "super five senses"... lol? It seems like the same thing, unless the eye just has more range in detecting yoki. Anyone know?

[Anh_Minh]

It's just one one of those things you can't see till you read it over again.
What do you mean?

Plus, Isley is not savage enough to kill her.
He originally intended to kill her. He sent thirty of his own men to get slaughtered as a decoy for his southward move. He's savage enough for anything.

[superzombie23]

Well, like you know when you see a movie for the first time, and you don't catch as much as you did the 2nd time. The more you watch it, the more you realize how stupid the actions some of the characters were. And, Isley had plenty of opportunities to kill her, but even if he stomped her head, she probably wouldn't have died, so if he was so bent on killing her, he wouldn't be savage enough :heh:

[Hamstadini]

What's the difference between the power the "eye" has and the "super five senses"... lol? It seems like the same thing, unless the eye just has more range in detecting yoki. Anyone know?

Galatea was the original "eye" of Claire's generation. She excelled at sensing Yoki (though whether her sensitivity to it is on par with Teresa's is debatable), and according to translated scans "has energy detection in a wide range," meaning she could ferret out individual yoki "wavelengths." This is different from Miata's specialty - she doesn't track Yoma or Claymores by their yoki, but by their scent.

As a little chestnut, before the wikipedia article got updated, Tabitha was called the "Dark Silver Eye" of the remaining seven Claymores of Pieta. I dunno how the editor of the article came across this information, but it seems to fit considering that Miria turned to her to scan the area when the seven first came down from the north.

[superzombie23]

Galatea was the original "eye" of Claire's generation. She excelled at sensing Yoki (though whether her sensitivity to it is on par with Teresa's is debatable), and according to translated scans "has energy detection in a wide range," meaning she could ferret out individual yoki "wavelengths." This is different from Miata's specialty - she doesn't track Yoma or Claymores by their yoki, but by their scent.

As a little chestnut, before the wikipedia article got updated, Tabitha was called the "Dark Silver Eye" of the remaining seven Claymores of Pieta. I dunno how the editor of the article came across this information, but it seems to fit considering that Miria turned to her to scan the area when the seven first came down from the north.

Lol, so anyone who's considered an eye is a Yoki scanner. lmao

[Defiled one]

I do hope that Priscilla actually dies by a cranium destruction or decapitation. Otherwise I don´t think beating her until submission will do.

[Hamstadini]

Lol, so anyone who's considered an eye is a Yoki scanner. lmao

:eyebrow: I fail to see how I was humorous.

[Tempest35]

Well, if one were to apply this to the anime, Priscilla's actions make so much more sense in regards to her dealings with Raki.

[Defiled one]

This arises several temporary conclusions.

And let us revert it when Priscilla saw Teresa. Priscilla actually lied to us all, in a sense. Even I was fooled.

When she fought Teresa, this wasn´t about good or evil as Priscilla wanted to be. What I do believe, for now, is that Priscilla wanted Teresa dead because of Clare...Personally because of her.
Wait! and Calm your horses because I am not going kinky here. Not Yuri!

It does make sense. Why did Clare was spared? Because Prscilla didn´t saw little girls? Because she thought Clare was worthless to eat? Quite the contrary..I do love this mangaka plot twists.
Priscilla spared Clare the same way she spared Raki. Raki saved her from a "rock" and something cliked inside of her....Raki became a brother to her, that´s why she clinged to him. Clare, at that time, was spared because to Priscilla, she saw Clare as a sister.
Priscilla saw Teresa as the Youma that killed her family, that´s why she fought like a manic with false ideals of protecting Clare "Sister" from the Youma "Teresa" Thus, she mumbled Papa and Mama in the fight.

Personally, I wouldn´t be suprised that, after feasting in those villages she returned there to pick up Clare. She didn´t find the girl thus, she went to town to town eating and trying to find her "family"

Now, there is only one doubt...Was it only Clare and Raki? Or Priscilla sees brother and sister in all the boys and girls?....My guess is no. Otherwise Priscilla would have spared Ophelia`s brother...Logical explanation for ophelia survival probably revolves around her brother using his body as a decoy ...But I don´t know Since Priscilla mostly attacks when provoked.

[Grey]

Ahh, Rigald. I miss his awesomeness. But it was interesting to see Isley put forth a bit of effort and smash Priscilla around. I do wonder whether Isley could have taken Priscilla out if he'd been a bit more unrelenting in his strikes (instead of pausing all the time). It strikes me as entirely possible, since Priscilla was using her arms to block, and was surprised when one of Isley's strikes cut through them. If that strike had been aimed at her neck, it may have been decisive.

[Guido]

Something that bothers me is where's Priscilla's claymore?

Last time we saw of it she was carrying it with her while taking flight to look for guts after killing Noel and Sophia, wounding Irene, and then leaving chibi Clare untouched.

[Defiled one]

Something that bothers me is where's Priscilla's claymore?

Last time we saw of it she was carrying it with her while taking flight to look for guts after killing Noel and Sophia, wounding Irene, and then leaving chibi Clare untouched.

She probably buried Teresa and used her own sword as a grave memento.:rolleyes:

[stormy001_M1A2]

This arises several temporary conclusions.

And let us revert it when Priscilla saw Teresa. Priscilla actually lied to us all, in a sense. Even I was fooled.

When she fought Teresa, this wasn´t about good or evil as Priscilla wanted to be. What I do believe, for now, is that Priscilla wanted Teresa dead because of Clare...Personally because of her.
Wait! and Calm your horses because I am not going kinky here. Not Yuri!

It does make sense. Why did Clare was spared? Because Prscilla didn´t saw little girls? Because she thought Clare was worthless to eat? Quite the contrary..I do love this mangaka plot twists.
Priscilla spared Clare the same way she spared Raki. Raki saved her from a "rock" and something cliked inside of her....Raki became a brother to her, that´s why she clinged to him. Clare, at that time, was spared because to Priscilla, she saw Clare as a sister.
Priscilla saw Teresa as the Youma that killed her family, that´s why she fought like a manic with false ideals of protecting Clare "Sister" from the Youma "Teresa" Thus, she mumbled Papa and Mama in the fight.

Personally, I wouldn´t be suprised that, after feasting in those villages she returned there to pick up Clare. She didn´t find the girl thus, she went to town to town eating and trying to find her "family"

Now, there is only one doubt...Was it only Clare and Raki? Or Priscilla sees brother and sister in all the boys and girls?....My guess is no. Otherwise Priscilla would have spared Ophelia`s brother...Logical explanation for ophelia survival probably revolves around her brother using his body as a decoy ...But I don´t know Since Priscilla mostly attacks when provoked.

I dunno if she is that far in her psychosis. We don't really know what is her feeling for Raki, is it eros or family level.

[Gooral]

How do you rate this chapter in comparison to the other two ? For me it was better than the second but worse than the third. The only new thing we saw was depth of Priscilla's power, definitely overwhelms Isley in means of power but could have been killed nonetheless, she's still inexperienced in fighting.

Something that bothers me is where's Priscilla's claymore?

Last time we saw of it she was carrying it with her while taking flight to look for guts after killing Noel and Sophia, wounding Irene, and then leaving chibi Clare untouched.
She used it as a toothpick and after it bended and broke she threw it away ;]. Her arms were better weapons anyway.

[stormy001_M1A2]

ES 1 is boring because it just talks about how powerful Theresa is. ES 2 is more interesting and ES 3 is just expanding on the antagonist. So my vote ES 2 > ES 3 > ES 1.

(Runs away from gangs of Theresa fans in the forum)

[cors8]

ES 1 is boring because it just talks about how powerful Theresa is. ES 2 is more interesting and ES 3 is just expanding on the antagonist. So my vote ES 2 > ES 3 > ES 1.

(Runs away from gangs of Theresa fans in the forum)

You should be hanged!

Anyway, it seems that Priscilla can be easily decapitated if people only fought her with no hesitation.

This leads me to believe that unless Priscilla has a negative reaction to sensing Teresa's youki from Clare, then she has a decent chance of beating her when she gets more power-ups.

[Child_of_Sierra]

I always had the impression that Isley met Priscilla not long after she awakened but this chapter reminded me that his promise of taking Priscilla south would have been delayed several years (evidence by grown up Clare) to come to fruitation. I'm now thinking that the events of ES3 happened a few months (tops) before the northern campaign. (unless Isley found a way to keep Priscilla distracted for a very long time and even then he should not have a reason to wait)

[Prongs]

he wait to plot an attack and gather a troops as many as possible. because the orgs somehow its hard to deal

[Gooral]

Huh ? ES2 is boring, the only new thing was information that Ophelia had a major role in Miria's friend awakening and Miria's sincere devotion to her friends.

I always had the impression that Isley met Priscilla not long after she awakened but this chapter reminded me that his promise of taking Priscilla south would have been delayed several years (evidence by grown up Clare) to come to fruitation. I'm now thinking that the events of ES3 happened a few months (tops) before the northern campaign. (unless Isley found a way to keep Priscilla distracted for a very long time and even then he should not have a reason to wait)
That might be, but I still think several years have passed. The rampage she would made would bring attention of everyone, unless she went to secluded north. Also we see her relative less aggressive attitude and more childish look in comparison of what we see in this chapter. What's more I don't think Isley would risk sheltering Raki if he didn't know Priscilla well. Finally, what's 10 years for immortals ?

[Fenrir_valindri]

I have a feeling if Priscilla had actually thought herself in real danger, she would have obliterated Isley, she allowed Noel and Sophia to injure her simply because she did not believe them to be threats, when they tried, she killed them. She finished Irene simply because Irene had attacked her as well.

I have a feeling anyone trying to go for a head shot would be in for a nasty suprise when Priscilla puts a hole in them.

Isley only did so well because Priscilla was basically allowing him to hurt her, and in a split second she could have returned the favor, and killed him at anytime.

As show, by Dauf's winks, unexpected head shots dont work so well on AB. :p

As for Priscilla's mental state, I have a feeling she does see her sister in every little girls he meets, and the reason she killed Ophelia's brother was simple, because he was not the right age.
Raki is however, and now that Raki is with her, if he grows older in her presence she might truley see him as her brother, growing up with her as he should be.

I also believe the Teresa chapter was kind of boring tbh, Teresa OMFGing a AB, even one of Rigaldo's power level, is no suprise at all.

Miria's chapter is my favorite for obvious reasons, but also allowed a good room of development for her character, and, to a much lesser extent, Ophelia.

Priscilla's chapter is a close second, it shines some solid light on Priscilla's mental state, AND has OMFG pwnage, and has 3 of our AB favorites :p

[Defiled one]

I always had the impression that Isley met Priscilla not long after she awakened but this chapter reminded me that his promise of taking Priscilla south would have been delayed several years (evidence by grown up Clare) to come to fruitation. I'm now thinking that the events of ES3 happened a few months (tops) before the northern campaign. (unless Isley found a way to keep Priscilla distracted for a very long time and even then he should not have a reason to wait)

It was several months ago. Priscilla spent this years trying to find a family until she reached Easley Territory. Riful when meeting Clare for the first time also mentioned a brief time skip.
The ORDER knew what Prscilla was doing, no one has ever resquested her death because no one ever survived or offered enough Gold for the Kill and even after that. They would have to ponder if they could actually win...

[Gooral]

It was several months ago. Priscilla spent this years trying to find a family until she reached Easley Territory. Riful when meeting Clare for the first time also mentioned a brief time skip.
The ORDER knew what Prscilla was doing, no one has ever resquested her death because no one ever survived or offered enough Gold for the Kill and even after that. They would have to ponder if they could actually win...
Define brief time. Isley - the oldest claymore, Riful - very old one, for them brief time could be 5-10 years. In the manga all that we know is that "all of a sudden a lone awakened being appeared in the North" breaking boring daily routine.

[Defiled one]

Then, Easley territory must be enormous considering it takes 5 years maybe 10 of terrain search.

[Tempest35]

Not really, he has underlings, a luxury that Riful doesn't have. ^_^ He just has everyone report to him. If something needs his personal attention, like Priscilla, then he goes.

And I'll get back to your post Defiled One on Priscilla. :D Priscilla is one of my fave topics for some strange reason. :p

[Gooral]

Then, Easley territory must be enormous considering it takes 5 years maybe 10 of terrain search.
And why do You assume that he would rush with finding her parents and going south ? He could explain to her that her parents are already dead (not likely), she could consider Isley as a father/guardian and forget about her parents (she didn't recall them in the manga if I remember correctly, in anime yes but in the manga?). The last thing that comes to my mind is that she's stupid and Isley is smart, he could drug her or persuade her that they would go tomorrow (for many years that is :) ), until he was ready to confront Riful without relying on Priscilla's strength.

[Hamstadini]

The ORDER knew what Prscilla was doing, no one has ever resquested her death because no one ever survived or offered enough Gold for the Kill and even after that. They would have to ponder if they could actually win...

Another possibility - the Organization didn't bother to kill Priscilla because she was killing everyone except for the girls, which means more Claymores. More than half of the Claymore contingent must have a grudge against the one-horned monster...

Wait a sec... if Teresa was killed before Priscilla awakened (or while, if you want to be technical about it), and Ophelia's brother was killed after, then that would mean Ophelia's impressment into the Organization was later than Claire's... and Miria rose in rank during Ophelia's time.

Claire must have spent a long time at the bottom of the barrel... :heh:

[Defiled one]

Another possibility - the Organization didn't bother to kill Priscilla because she was killing everyone except for the girls, which means more Claymores. More than half of the Claymore contingent must have a grudge against the one-horned monster...

Wait a sec... if Teresa was killed before Priscilla awakened (or while, if you want to be technical about it), and Ophelia's brother was killed after, then that would mean Ophelia's impressment into the Organization was later than Claire's... and Miria rose in rank during Ophelia's time.

Claire must have spent a long time at the bottom of the barrel... :heh:

There wasn´t an exact time skip there...For all we know this could have happened 50 years ago since teresa died. Maybe 100...We don´t really know.

[Hamstadini]

There wasn´t an exact time skip there...For all we know this could have happened 50 years ago since teresa died. Maybe 100...We don´t really know.

That's still a long time to be the lowest ranking Claymore.

[Xellos-_^]

There wasn´t an exact time skip there...For all we know this could have happened 50 years ago since teresa died. Maybe 100...We don´t really know.

I would guess more then 10 but less then 20.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Not sure where I see the problem of time in that.

Priscilla kills Teresa = Clare is recruited by the Organization as a little girl.

Priscilla kills Ophelia's brother = Ophelia joins the Organization.

Miria rises throught the ranks = Ophelia is #4

Not much of a problem, it just has to do with Clare's age, it is not like she was put into the field as soon as they hybridized her, she had to get used to the transformation, and had to be trained, it is possible she was on active duty longer then Ophelia or Miria, but both of them are probably older then her, and Clare was not exactly overflowing with talent, so staying #47 would not be a suprise, heck, maybe she got drafted in after some time, she might not even have been in the roster until someone died.

[dutchman]

Just read the scanlated chapter ES 3 and I am stunned by the raw power Pricillia posesses. Based on her small nimble form I was expecting her to be the kind of awakened being which employs massive speed and agility to evade and kill her enemies.

But based from the manga it appears she has an almost limitless amount of raw yoki energy at her disposal. The way she retaliated at Isley was impressive almost half of his Abyssal level body gone in a single instant!!

Still based on what we already know of the Claymore world vast amounts of Yoki doesn't equal invincibility. There is always an equal amount of skill required and sometimes a bit of luck.. just like in a real life fight. So Clare and her friends still have a chance..(at least I hope they do..).

[Defiled one]

Priscilla must have a weak spot. But Where?

[Fenrir_valindri]

I am still standing behind the theory that she wont die by the end of the manga. :p

[dutchman]

Priscilla must have a weak spot. But Where?

The only weak spot I can imagine is that she isn't really aware of enemies. She is so strong that she survives crushing attacks and then lashes back in anger.. which for most standard enemies means instant defeat..

So I guess maybe if someone whom she trusted got close and has enough strenght to deal an instant killing blow there might be a chance. But who would posess such strenght/skill and be able to get close to her?

And don't say Raki.. because unless he has become a legend like Guts / Gatsu from berserk in the last 7 years I can't take this option serious..

[Fenrir_valindri]

Even with Raki becoming Guts, I still do not see how a human would be able to generate enough force without magical aid (ala Guts' sword and, more recently, his armor) to a being like Priscilla, she is way above anything but the God's Hands in Berserk.

[Defiled one]

I feel that priscilla might be more important than anyone else. There this tingling feeling that she isn´t the foe that the people say "Well she does eat them" So I have sentiments.

[Fenrir_valindri]

I do have a feeling the Organization or Isley will end up being the end boss, or maybe Riful's plan has alot more behind it then we thought.

Priscilla just does not strike me as "final boss" material, despite her immense power, and Clare's personal grudge against her.

[Guido]

The way how Priscilla's mentality regresses back to that of a little child would had sounded cooler had she said, "Can I eat your guts?"

She's the Gluttony among the Awakened Beings in the Claymore-verse.

[dutchman]

Even with Raki becoming Guts, I still do not see how a human would be able to generate enough force without magical aid (ala Guts sword and, more recently, his armor) to a being like Priscilla, she is way above anything but the God's Hands in Berserk.

Yeah I know , I only wanted to make clear that Raki in his current human form would never be able to kill Prisicillia (even if he wanted to).

However I suddenly realise that we haven't seen him for 7 years (in the manga) so who knows.. maybe he isn't human anymore...

Some speculated that he would end up as a male claymore / awakened one. Althought with such a gifted author you never know what he has in store for us.

[Fenrir_valindri]

She seems to have a constant urge to feed her near limitless power. But it seems she has the under control when Raki shows up, maybe she has learned self control while staying with Isley?

[superzombie23]

:eyebrow: I fail to see how I was humorous.

I was really tired -.-

[Defiled one]

She seems to have a constant urge to feed her near limitless power. But it seems she has the under control when Raki shows up, maybe she has learned self control while staying with Isley?

I fear that, is not only humans that she preys upon...:uhoh: I am being serious here.


Rigald got Lucky. Otherwise Priscilla might have eviscerated him to feed?

"I won´t....Eat you"


It seems that. If this line isn´t just talk and Priscilla does prey on Awakened, She isn´t just the most powerful. She´s their predator...a new species:uhoh:

How did they actually made Priscilla makes me wonder how much ignorant and non caring they are with consequences. It seems that their process either got currupted by an unknown source. I doubt they know what is bacteria and virus or they used a new method. And after Priscilla they realized that it was too dangerous to mass produce.

[Bikerider]

Pricllia's horn was damaged in Isley's attack. Therefore he did aim for her head and she dodged.it.

[hollywoodlou]

poor Rigald...no wonder he went wild @ Pieta. He got a beat down from BOTH Pris AND Isley, and the only people he can defeat are Claymores.

[Tempest35]

Hmm, getting into Isley's head is harder than it would seem but a few things are easy to distinguish. Yes, he did admit defeat - If they would have continued, even with 100+ years worth of experience at his back, Isley would have lost. So he did the best thing, he submitted to the will of an extremely powerful child - a young lady with a child's mind. Nice and soothing promises will calm almost any child down if they will get what they want in the end.

By doing that, Isley placed Priscilla under his control. He's now the one who will fulfill her heart's desires and she'll stay with him and do what he says as long as its towards her ultimate goal, or so he will say. :) Same ploy has been used so many times throughout history with a child in power and his 'trusted' vassal, corrupt or upright, guiding them. In Isley's case, this is extremely risky and sneaky but Isley is capable of pulling it off. So in reality, Isley's story that he has the woman with power above the Abyssal Ones in his camp is very true.

As for Priscilla, when she found Raki, she had hit that town a day ago so she wouldn't have needed to eat him immediately. Since he came from the South like she did, all her thoughts, even those of feeding her massive appetite, were pushed back. I see the person she killed in the anime as being an 'emergency ration' since she was probably starving herself being around Raki. Raki is right now the one person that Priscilla will NOT eat and hell will come in the form of a demonic Awakened One with unlimited power if anyone tried to eat or harm him in any way. That and she had probably fed enough in the years before the invasion of Pieta that her appetite would have decreased from the 'ravenous' mode it was in after her Awakening.

Raki can't drive a sword through her heart but his words could have that effect. Like Black Lagoon's Rock, Raki's 'blades' can very well come through his words to Priscilla. If he rejects her, she's going to throw an extremely dangerous tantrum. :heh: Not a light tantrum either like a child in a supermarket wanting a toy - I mean one where the kid just flips out, grabbing and throwing stuff, screaming and becomes a danger to themselves and others. Isley probably doesn't realize that in having Raki there, he's endangering his entire plan to keep her in control. Once she finds out what happens to her parents and her 'memory' returns, she'll flip out - Isley knows this. He's hoping that he'd have enough 'power' to hold her until she calms down and she can start thinking like an adult Priscilla. This will probably backfire in his face because her mindset as Claymore Priscilla is the one that's being repressed. That mindset will NOT be able to comprehend and handle the knowledge that she became an Awakened being and has killed hundreds of people. Her worst enemy is her own self, in this case - a hydrogen bomb just waiting to go off once she remembers everything.

I also find it interesting that even as an Awakened, Priscilla's actions are still 'innocent'. Not morally innocent - she's slaughtering entire towns to feed her voracious appetite - but rather innocent as in the same vein of a young child who finds it interesting to impale lizards with sticks to see how long they move for. We as adults would call that sadistic curiosity and probably punish that child in some way to show that that line of thought carries much more than just simply sedating one's curiosity. Her personality is devoid of the usual man-eating, manical glee that nearly all Youma and some Awakeneds possess. I will even go so far as to suggest that it seems that she's not even aware that she's killing the people who's guts she's devouring. She has to be aware on some level but her current mindset refuses to process it. As with the child - the only way Priscilla will know that she's doing 'wrong' is if someone tells/punishes her. Problem is, who in the world can punish Priscilla? :heh:
Isley surely did not do such a thing. He encouraged her to tone it down a bit but he did not tell her to stop at all. In fact, he most likey rationalized it for her so that she could accept it easier.

Scary as this may seem but I still got some more stuff to say but I'm calling it quits. I've got a shower with my name on it. :D

[Grey]

Pricllia's horn was damaged in Isley's attack. Therefore he did aim for her head and she dodged.it.The attack that broke her horn was him stomping with his hoof, and he successfully pinned her to the ground with that attack. That hardly counts as dodging, but it's also hard to say how much "aiming" there even is when he's slamming a giant hoof down.

[Tempest35]

Oh yes, a few more things...the potential humor in this is too much to ignore. Sorry but since I wrote out all that serious stuff, I gotta do this to feel 'balanced'. :D

Pris: Isley! Isley! Play with me!

Isley: Not now Priscilla, I'm working.

Pris: But I wanna play~!

Isley: Okay, how about I give Rigald to you? I'm sure he won't mind playing with you.

Rigald: ...excuse me?

Isley: Just for a few minutes okay? Just keep her busy.

Rigald: ... yes sir. But I get to lead the next hunting party.

Isley: Deal. :)

Rigald: *to Priscilla* What would you like to play?

Pris: *bright eyed* Claymores and Awakeneds!

Rigald: :eyebrow: ... come again? What sort of game is that?

Pris: I'm the Claymore and you're the Awakened One! :D *pulls a sword out and immediately a killing aura surrounds her as she switches to her Awakened form* Prepare yourself!

Rigald: :eek: ....mommy...

Isley: ...at least she didn't ask you to play 'Horsey'...*ignoring Rigald's screams of terror*

[khryoleoz]

ES 1 is boring because it just talks about how powerful Theresa is. ES 2 is more interesting and ES 3 is just expanding on the antagonist. So my vote ES 2 > ES 3 > ES 1.

(Runs away from gangs of Theresa fans in the forum)

Maybe. But in terms of the importance in what it reveals, ES1 > ES2 + ES3. It establishes some basis for figuring out Clare's own latent potential.

And, only Teresa haters, or one whose favorite character that is someone else is trumped by her awesomeness, wouldn't appreciate some story that shows Teresa may be stronger than abyssal class.

I also believe the Teresa chapter was kind of boring tbh, Teresa OMFGing a AB, even one of Rigaldo's power level, is no suprise at all.
I don't think it's that easy to compare Rigald and Rosemary. Rosemary at least managed to be a number one. She may have been stronger then Rigald, both as Claymore and AB.

[mycen]

Priscilla must have a weak spot. But Where?

The memory of Teresa should give Priscilla some cold shivers for a while at least. Assuming that she still remembers what happened then..

[Negativedark]

Yeah Isley did the smart thing. He turned Priscilla into the ultimate trump card. Seems like Priss has singlehandly destroyed the balence of power that used to exist in the Claymore world. You had four powers in the Claymore world, the three abyssals and the organization. None of them dared to move to wipe out any of the others because they know that one of the others would take advantage of their weakened state to elimanate them. Thats exactly what Riful tried to do when Isley fought Lucelia. If Priscilla hadn't been there, Riful would have killed him.

As for who can kill Priscilla, my money is on Priscilla herself. I can see her during the fight with Claire asking why she's trying to kill her when all she wants to do is find her family, and a stunned Claire telling her what happened to her family. With this realization, and the realization of what she's become, Priss would then kill herself.

[Defiled one]

Hmm, getting into Isley's head is harder than it would seem but a few things are easy to distinguish. Yes, he did admit defeat - If they would have continued, even with 100+ years worth of experience at his back, Isley would have lost. So he did the best thing, he submitted to the will of an extremely powerful child - a young lady with a child's mind. Nice and soothing promises will calm almost any child down if they will get what they want in the end.

By doing that, Isley placed Priscilla under his control. He's now the one who will fulfill her heart's desires and she'll stay with him and do what he says as long as its towards her ultimate goal, or so he will say. :) Same ploy has been used so many times throughout history with a child in power and his 'trusted' vassal, corrupt or upright, guiding them. In Isley's case, this is extremely risky and sneaky but Isley is capable of pulling it off. So in reality, Isley's story that he has the woman with power above the Abyssal Ones in his camp is very true.

As for Priscilla, when she found Raki, she had hit that town a day ago so she wouldn't have needed to eat him immediately. Since he came from the South like she did, all her thoughts, even those of feeding her massive appetite, were pushed back. I see the person she killed in the anime as being an 'emergency ration' since she was probably starving herself being around Raki. Raki is right now the one person that Priscilla will NOT eat and hell will come in the form of a demonic Awakened One with unlimited power if anyone tried to eat or harm him in any way. That and she had probably fed enough in the years before the invasion of Pieta that her appetite would have decreased from the 'ravenous' mode it was in after her Awakening.

Raki can't drive a sword through her heart but his words could have that effect. Like Black Lagoon's Rock, Raki's 'blades' can very well come through his words to Priscilla. If he rejects her, she's going to throw an extremely dangerous tantrum. :heh: Not a light tantrum either like a child in a supermarket wanting a toy - I mean one where the kid just flips out, grabbing and throwing stuff, screaming and becomes a danger to themselves and others. Isley probably doesn't realize that in having Raki there, he's endangering his entire plan to keep her in control. Once she finds out what happens to her parents and her 'memory' returns, she'll flip out - Isley knows this. He's hoping that he'd have enough 'power' to hold her until she calms down and she can start thinking like an adult Priscilla. This will probably backfire in his face because her mindset as Claymore Priscilla is the one that's being repressed. That mindset will NOT be able to comprehend and handle the knowledge that she became an Awakened being and has killed hundreds of people. Her worst enemy is her own self, in this case - a hydrogen bomb just waiting to go off once she remembers everything.

I also find it interesting that even as an Awakened, Priscilla's actions are still 'innocent'. Not morally innocent - she's slaughtering entire towns to feed her voracious appetite - but rather innocent as in the same vein of a young child who finds it interesting to impale lizards with sticks to see how long they move for. We as adults would call that sadistic curiosity and probably punish that child in some way to show that that line of thought carries much more than just simply sedating one's curiosity. Her personality is devoid of the usual man-eating, manical glee that nearly all Youma and some Awakeneds possess. I will even go so far as to suggest that it seems that she's not even aware that she's killing the people who's guts she's devouring. She has to be aware on some level but her current mindset refuses to process it. As with the child - the only way Priscilla will know that she's doing 'wrong' is if someone tells/punishes her. Problem is, who in the world can punish Priscilla? :heh:
Isley surely did not do such a thing. He encouraged her to tone it down a bit but he did not tell her to stop at all. In fact, he most likey rationalized it for her so that she could accept it easier.

Scary as this may seem but I still got some more stuff to say but I'm calling it quits. I've got a shower with my name on it. :D


Badass review that is 100% compatible with mine. Althouh Priscilla comitted two crimes so far, as you stated. She comitted the crime of survival, eating. A crime that is moraly questionable since she is not human anymore...
And of course. Teresa`s death that she was aware of when commiting it, premeditated or not.


Yes, Priscilla is in self-denial now and by the looks of hit...Raki will never be eaten by her. She is like a child, she really but really likes the boy to the extreme.

She may one day remember what she did, she may one day reach critical and go berserk upon realizing that Isley tricked her, that she is an awakened, that she killed and ate entrails, that her family does not exist anymore....Yes she may destroy and go insane with hatred and anguish but I tell you one thing...Do you really think her feelings towards the boy will change? If he is still alive and is with Priscilla, it´s magical now.

If you take Raki away after this climax...Priscilla will reach absolute desperation and will die. By her own hands.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Maybe. But in terms of the importance in what it reveals, ES1 > ES2 + ES3. It establishes some basis for figuring out Clare's own latent potential.

And, only Teresa haters, or one whose favorite character that is someone else is trumped by her awesomeness, wouldn't appreciate some story that shows Teresa may be stronger than abyssal class.


I don't think it's that easy to compare Rigald and Rosemary. Rosemary at least managed to be a number one. She may have been stronger then Rigald, both as Claymore and AB.

Not really, we all already knew Teresa was the strongest #1 in the Organizations history, Orsey himself said it, "The strongest warrior the Organization has ever produced....no, rather the strongest Monster."

We had no reason to doubt her strength, and thus, have no real reason to doubt Clare's 1/4 awesomeness.

Rigald #2 of his time because Isley was #1, if anything, it is just as possible he was stronger then Rosemary.
Rosemary was immediately demoted to #2 when Teresa showed up, and Teresa herself said. "You were only ever a #2."

I am a Teresa fan, no doubt, but I dislike the lofty heights in which people place her power, she was probably approach, if not at Abyssal class, but that obviously did not make her invincible.

Something that is hard to deny with Priscilla now.

To mycen: It is questionable if Priscilla even remembers Teresa, she does not even seem to be aware of what she has become, considering she does not even remember what happened to her family.

To Defiled One: I would not go so far as to state Priscilla was aware of killing Teresa, hell, if that was the case, you could blaim Clare for killing Jean, and if you do.....shame on you. :p

[Seska]

Oh yes, a few more things...the potential humor in this is too much to ignore. Sorry but since I wrote out all that serious stuff, I gotta do this to feel 'balanced'. :D

Pris: Isley! Isley! Play with me!

Isley: Not now Priscilla, I'm working.

Pris: But I wanna play~!

Isley: Okay, how about I give Rigald to you? I'm sure he won't mind playing with you.

Rigald: ...excuse me?

Isley: Just for a few minutes okay? Just keep her busy.

Rigald: ... yes sir. But I get to lead the next hunting party.

Isley: Deal. :)

Rigald: *to Priscilla* What would you like to play?

Pris: *bright eyed* Claymores and Awakeneds!

Rigald: :eyebrow: ... come again? What sort of game is that?

Pris: I'm the Claymore and you're the Awakened One! :D *pulls a sword out and immediately a killing aura surrounds her as she switches to her Awakened form* Prepare yourself!

Rigald: :eek: ....mommy...

Isley: ...at least she didn't ask you to play 'Horsey'...*ignoring Rigald's screams of terror*

LoL :heh:

thats a good one :)

[Defiled one]

Not really, we all already knew Teresa was the strongest #1 in the Organizations history, Orsey himself said it, "The strongest warrior the Organization has ever produced....no, rather the strongest Monster."

We had no reason to doubt her strength, and thus, have no real reason to doubt Clare's 1/4 awesomeness.

Rigald #2 of his time because Isley was #1, if anything, it is just as possible he was stronger then Rosemary.
Rosemary was immediately demoted to #2 when Teresa showed up, and Teresa herself said. "You were only ever a #2."

I am a Teresa fan, no doubt, but I dislike the lofty heights in which people place her power, she was probably approach, if not at Abyssal class, but that obviously did not make her invincible.

Something that is hard to deny with Priscilla now.

To mycen: It is questionable if Priscilla even remembers Teresa, she does not even seem to be aware of what she has become, considering she does not even remember what happened to her family.

To Defiled One: I would not go so far as to state Priscilla was aware of killing Teresa, hell, if that was the case, you could blaim Clare for killing Jean, and if you do.....shame on you. :p

Yes, without a doubt and unintentionly, Clare murdered Jean...She was aware of the act iself but not in control of it. So yes, a murderer like Priscilla....And let us not forget that her lifestyle is very hardened. Clare was also the reason for Teresa death and she knows it.

[Seska]

Jean has done it, on her own free will. Teresa lives for Chibi Clare on her own free will.

Perhaps Clare let the Claymore remembers of her Human hearts and free will... With time, perhaps even "Ms. Ice Claymore" will melt :)

[Defiled one]

Jean has done it, on her own free will. Teresa lives for Chibi Clare on her own free will.

Perhaps Clare let the Claymore remembers of her Human hearts and free will... With time, perhaps even "Ms. Ice Claymore" will melt :)


And Santa Klaus lives in our hearts:rolleyes: It is still murder, by accident, but it´s still murder nevertheless.

[DarkSide Hero]

So Isley's plan all along was to use Prissy's power to take over the map. I wonder if we will see her turn against him in the future.:eyespin:

[Yorae_paladin1]

so priscilla has not lost her memories she is just insane in some ways she thinks she is still human which why she questions why people are afraid when she eats guts she does not realize what she is doing. When she regains her sanity im guessing the guilt will hit her like a freight train and isley will wish he never met her

[Fenrir_valindri]

so priscilla has not lost her memories she is just insane in some ways she thinks she is still human which why she questions why people are afraid when she eats guts she does not realize what she is doing. When she regains her sanity im guessing the guilt will hit her like a freight train and isley will wish he never met her

Um, I thought it was pretty clear she DID lose her memories, she has blocked it all out. She doesnt remember that her entire family was killed by Yoma, and she doesnt realize she is an AB.

Crazy? Yes.

Remembers everything? Definatly no.


To Defiled One: It is called manslaughter actually, "unintentional murder."

[Defiled one]

Actually if we get picky it´s called "womanslaughter" :heh:

[Xellos-_^]

I don't think it's that easy to compare Rigald and Rosemary. Rosemary at least managed to be a number one. She may have been stronger then Rigald, both as Claymore and AB.


Rosemary was #1 because of the losses the org had suffer form Lutecia's awakening. I doubt she was even in Rigald's class.

[Rowan]

For the love of god, WHY do people insist on saying Priscilla can be controlled and isn't as dangerous as she seems?

She's a rabid dog, people. She doesn't have to realize what she is to be lethal. Put her DOWN. That's all I have to say on the subject.

R.

[edf91]

For the love of god, WHY do people insist on saying Priscilla can be controlled and isn't as dangerous as she seems?

She's a rabid dog, people. She doesn't have to realize what she is to be lethal. Put her DOWN. That's all I have to say on the subject.

R.

The problem with this particular "rabid dog" is that there is nothing in the Claymore world strong enough to put "it" down :D

Would be interesting to see what Riful is hinting at when she said she find something that might be able to stop the Easlay/Pricilla alliance from taking over the world...

[khryoleoz]

Not really, we all already knew Teresa was the strongest #1 in the Organizations history, Orsey himself said it, "The strongest warrior the Organization has ever produced....no, rather the strongest Monster."

We had no reason to doubt her strength, and thus, have no real reason to doubt Clare's 1/4 awesomeness.

I am a Teresa fan, no doubt, but I dislike the lofty heights in which people place her power, she was probably approach, if not at Abyssal class, but that obviously did not make her invincible.
Well, OK. But I can't see how any more scenes of Teresa kicking ass would be boring. I think that more gratuitous Teresa scenes would be very welcome given we've been short changed with regard to her screen time. I dislike attributing loftiness to anything that doesn't warrant it also. But no one's attributing invincibility to Teresa. Fans are painfully aware of that fact. So again why would more Teresa kicking ass be boring, especially for a professing fan?

The memory of Teresa should give Priscilla some cold shivers for a while at least. Assuming that she still remembers what happened then..
Provided she can remember, I'd think so too. Teresa was probably her second most traumatic experience after her family's slaughter. I suspect she remembers Teresa's Yoki signature very well and this can give Clare some psychological advantage.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Well, OK. But I can't see how any more scenes of Teresa kicking ass would be boring. I think that more gratuitous Teresa scenes would be very welcome given we've been short changed with regard to her screen time. I dislike attributing loftiness to anything that doesn't warrant it also. But no one's attributing invincibility to Teresa. Fans are painfully aware of that fact. So again why would more Teresa kicking ass be boring, especially for a professing fan?

I love Teresa's extra scene, I just dont believe it was as good as the other two.
Also, you may be painfully aware that she wasn't invincible, but alot of her other fans sure dont seem to realize that. :p


Provided she can remember, I'd think so too. Teresa was probably her second most traumatic experience after her family's slaughter. I suspect she remembers Teresa's Yoki signature very well and this can give Clare some psychological advantage.

Possibly, but I would think it would provoke a more negative reaction if she recognized it, possibly making her go berserk, she did associate Teresa with the death of her parents after all.

If anything would give a psychological advantage against Priscilla, I seriously think it would be Miata.


In the end, I could see Priscilla becoming mentaly stable (maybe due to Raki's love power :uhoh: ) and not ending up dead by the end, hell she could end up being an ally for all we know.

[hollywoodlou]

The problem with this particular "rabid dog" is that there is nothing in the Claymore world strong enough to put "it" down :D

Would be interesting to see what Riful is hinting at when she said she find something that might be able to stop the Easlay/Pricilla alliance from taking over the world...

That "something" is Clare...maybe Galatea. You can also add the Alicia factor as well, as mentioned in the Slashers arc (wink). Anything is possible and there has got to be some kryptonite that can be fed to Prissy.
The advantage here is her erratic mind. If Clare plays her cards right, she can project Teresa and get Pris off balance BUT Clare has to be stronger though....way stronger.
Maybe go "half" Abyssal for starters.

[Hamstadini]

In the end, I could see Priscilla becoming mentaly stable (maybe due to Raki's love power :uhoh: ) and not ending up dead by the end, hell she could end up being an ally for all we know.

And it shall end IN FIRE! :D

Sorry, it was too good of an opening.

[Rehwyn]

I liked the chapter. I was wondering how Pris would end up fighting, given that from what we had seen before ES3 there wasn't much indication aside from her being ridiculously powerful.

As for what Riful was commenting on, I don't believe she was referring to Clare or Galatea specifically, just something that either of them could take advantage of or use. There really isn't enough info right now to determine that though.

[Gooral]

Yes, without a doubt and unintentionly, Clare murdered Jean...She was aware of the act iself but not in control of it. So yes, a murderer like Priscilla....And let us not forget that her lifestyle is very hardened. Clare was also the reason for Teresa death and she knows it.
I wouldn't call that murder for two reasons:
a) Jean was already mortally wounded, she had I don't know, couple hours left or less. You can't kill a dead man
b) Clare warned her that if she comes any closer she will cut her in half.
That's the same situation when someone is setting mine field, tells someone not to go there and he goes there anyway. Would you call him murderer?

In Priscilla's case it was premeditated murder and a low one too. She faked that she wanted to be killed, she was a cowardly, envious and conniving/scheming/tricky, definitely not stupid young woman (not child). The motive for killing Teresa was that she was more powerful than her, jealousy and pride, these were her sins. But then after a while her memories receded and she bacame a child again and now she acts all innocent.

I love Teresa's extra scene, I just dont believe it was as good as the other two.
Also, you may be painfully aware that she wasn't invincible, but alot of her other fans sure dont seem to realize that. :p

Show me one person on this forum that isn't aware of Teresa's death. Oh, right, there aren't any, what's the conclusion ? Everone knows that she isn't/wasn't invincible, all we're saing is that she was the strongest claymore of all time.


I think that when Priscilla unblocks her memories, she will become even more ruthless than Isley and Riful ever were (look at her behaviour just after killing Teresa). That would be interesting. Personally I'm not interested in a monster which doesn't even realise what he's doing, that's why Riful is the most interesting Awakened Being in my eyes. At the moment most of the people wouldn't like Priscilla to be the main boss, but if she "awakened", that would be different matter, I hope Raki goes his own way and it will trigger sth unwanted :] .
The organization won't be main adversary, IMO - the world with them around is scary and dangerous, but the world without them would be even worse and claymores are aware of that. Otherwise rebellion would had happend a long time ago.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Was a good extra scene, a little more insight into why she is like she is is good thing.

Was it just me or does her body or her arms atleast, from the way she attacked Isley, seem to be of similar construction to Rifle, ribbons and all that. Could make fighting her, and killing her a little difficult if it extends to the core parts of her body. Was also interesting the comment from Rigardo that her body seems to be just a shield for an immense amount of power, and when she is wounded it comes rushing out, I may have misinterpreted that part though. As it could be just a reference to Prisc reacting subconsciously when damaged and her powers are unleashed.

[Fenrir_valindri]

I wouldn't call that murder for two reasons:
a) Jean was already mortally wounded, she had I don't know, couple hours left or less. You can't kill a dead man
b) Clare warned her that if she comes any closer she will cut her in half.
That's the same situation when someone is setting mine field, tells someone not to go there and he goes there anyway. Would you call him murderer?

In Priscilla's case it was premeditated murder and a low one too. She faked that she wanted to be killed, she was a cowardly, envious and conniving/scheming/tricky, definitely not stupid young woman (not child). The motive for killing Teresa was that she was more powerful than her, jealousy and pride, these were her sins. But then after a while her memories receded and she bacame a child again and now she acts all innocent.

First of all, how do you know Priscilla planned it? She could have just lost control in the last minute, like Clare did with her Awakened limbs, and her Yoma half could have taken over and killed Teresa. How do we know if Priscilla the Claymore intended to kill Teresa in that moment? Especially when she was begging for death.

The truth is we cant know, and you are making an assumption.


Show me one person on this forum that isn't aware of Teresa's death. Oh, right, there aren't any, what's the conclusion ? Everone knows that she isn't/wasn't invincible, all we're saing is that she was the strongest claymore of all time.

Everyone was aware of Teresa's death (obviously) but as you stated, everyone thinks she was, and always will be, the strongest. I take Teresa's word on Priscilla's potential, that it was scary, and it was the potential of a monster.
Your statement that she was the strongest Claymore of all time is proof enough that people would consider her undefeatable in straight up combat.

I think that when Priscilla unblocks her memories, she will become even more ruthless than Isley and Riful ever were (look at her behaviour just after killing Teresa). That would be interesting. Personally I'm not interested in a monster which doesn't even realise what he's doing, that's why Riful is the most interesting Awakened Being in my eyes. At the moment most of the people wouldn't like Priscilla to be the main boss, but if she "awakened", that would be different matter, I hope Raki goes his own way and it will trigger sth unwanted :] .

When she first awakened she seemed like she was in some sort of drugged state, we cant really know even know if she was mocking Irene when tossing her arm back, or actually just returning "her things" to her. With her mental state, it is quite possible.

YOU may not be interested in Priscilla because of the way she is, and prefer she becomes the sterotypical Big Bad End Boss, but I personally think that is boring.

Riful is great, because she is Riful, I do not want Priscilla to turn into Riful just because it would make her a better end boss.

I have said it before but i'll state it again, how do we know Priscilla is the end boss?

The organization won't be main adversary, IMO - the world with them around is scary and dangerous, but the world without them would be even worse and claymores are aware of that. Otherwise rebellion would had happend a long time ago.

Is it really? Were normal Yoma worse then AB? Did the populace have to drain their funds just to higher a hunter to kill a single Yoma? Did entire villages get whiped off the map by a single monster?
I would not be so quick to say the Claymore's would rebel, they are brought into the Organization at a young age, and judging by some of their attitudes, the Organization has a reasonably good indoctrination program.
The reason these people do not rebel is because they know that not everyone shares their rebellious thoughts.

and in the case of many of them, they WANT to keep killing Yoma, even if the Organization is the cause of bigger problems.

[half_awake]

One thing is for sure - this story is one of the (if not THE) most beautiful work the mangaka has created for this series. The large/full page images of Rigald, Isley, and Priscilla are amazing. Priscilla's awakened form must be a b#$%^ to draw! Those wings and her face/head are so detailed... in the words of Rigald: superb!

And I personally think this is the best of the extra scenes to date. It reveals Isley's motivation for amassing the awakened beings, a subplot that has driven the main storyline since Riful's introduction - and whose fallout completely reorganized the balance of power in the Claymore world.

Great stuff.

[Tempest35]

To quote an idea from Soul Calibur II, Priscilla is Clare's 'Destined Battle'. They are on a crash course with each other and the only one that can get in the way of that is Raki. They are gonna have it out, one way or the other. Priscilla will be dealt with eventually but I highly doubt if anyone would say that Priscilla is the most pressing matter at hand right now in the grand scheme of things, especially with Raki keeping her content right now. :heh:

[Defiled one]

To quote an idea from Soul Calibur II, Priscilla is Clare's 'Destined Battle'. They are on a crash course with each other and the only one that can get in the way of that is Raki. They are gonna have it out, one way or the other. Priscilla will be dealt with eventually but I highly doubt if anyone would say that Priscilla is the most pressing matter at hand right now in the grand scheme of things, especially with Raki keeping her content right now. :heh:


And the winner takes it all!! The loser has to fall!! "Sings"

Easley will go far in his singiging career.

[Gooral]

First of all, how do you know Priscilla planned it? She could have just lost control in the last minute, like Clare did with her Awakened limbs, and her Yoma half could have taken over and killed Teresa. How do we know if Priscilla the Claymore intended to kill Teresa in that moment? Especially when she was begging for death.

The truth is we cant know, and you are making an assumption.

Excuse me, did we read the same manga ? Check out volume 5 page 37. Her only desire the moment she was beaten by Teresa was revenge and killing Teresa, that was her only objective, she was greatly piqued proffesional killer. All the time she was saying she would kill her, and suddenly assassin wants redemption, yeah right. Teresa's mistake was that she dealt with Pricilla like she did with Rosemary, underestimated her and believed her. See pages 52 and 53 and think again if I'm assuming things.

Priscilla: I will kill you ! I will never forgive you ! I will kill you ! ....
My papa was so kind to me, give me back my papa ! [tries to kill Teresa again with sudden attack]
<few minutes later she forgets that she wanted to kill her, lol>
Priscilla: Please, kill me while I still have a shred of humanity
[notice the strange change in font, that's not random, it obviously states she wasn't sincere and shows Teresa's naiveness and stupidity at that moment]



Everyone was aware of Teresa's death (obviously) but as you stated, everyone thinks she was, and always will be, the strongest. I take Teresa's word on Priscilla's potential, that it was scary, and it was the potential of a monster.
Your statement that she was the strongest Claymore of all time is proof enough that people would consider her undefeatable in straight up combat.

The strongest doesn't mean invincible, decide then what you want to say.




YOU may not be interested in Priscilla because of the way she is, and prefer she becomes the sterotypical Big Bad End Boss, but I personally think that is boring.
Riful is great, because she is Riful, I do not want Priscilla to turn into Riful just because it would make her a better end boss.
You think that's boring, but now you're excited and flustered after small demonstration and few pictures of Priscilla fighting. You're denying yourself.
All depends on how it's served. For me stupid would be redemption and forgiveness to Priscilla.
Destroying the organization would be a pointless thing to do. Anyone who would want that, should be prepared to spill claymore's blood, if that was made by AB I would understand, but by other claymores (i.e fab 7) it just doesn't seem right. Exposing to the people their real faces is another thing, but that wouldn't be too flashy.
I didn't mean to change her to Riful but the way she was just after awakening, that doesn't seem like Riful to me.




Is it really? Were normal Yoma worse then AB? Did the populace have to drain their funds just to higher a hunter to kill a single Yoma? Did entire villages get whiped off the map by a single monster?
I would not be so quick to say the Claymore's would rebel, they are brought into the Organization at a young age, and judging by some of their attitudes, the Organization has a reasonably good indoctrination program.
The reason these people do not rebel is because they know that not everyone shares their rebellious thoughts.

and in the case of many of them, they WANT to keep killing Yoma, even if the Organization is the cause of bigger problems.
The organization had to do sth to prevent Yoma from rampaging, after they appeared Yoma had to conceal themselves and couldn't prey on humans openly anymore, hunting became harder to them. They didn't know side effects of their doings before they appeared, immediately they came up with countermeasures.
We are like organization, we make our lives easier, but pollute air and destroy nature, does it mean that all should live like Amish ?
The payment for what claymores are doing is adequate, only once we saw that they overdid when Teresa demanded double payment. I don't think anyone would prefer not paying and be eaten by yoma.
Also you're writing sth about good indoctrination program. Fab 7 and all that were in Pieta are proof of that ;). Alicia, Beth and Priscilla followed them only because they couldn't think by themselves (read: they were too stupid), but others are just soldiers not puppets. Even such devoted warrior as Audrey revealed confidential information to Miria.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Excuse me, did we read the same manga ? Check out volume 5 page 37. Her only desire the moment she was beaten by Teresa was revenge and killing Teresa, that was her only objective, she was greatly piqued proffesional killer. All the time she was saying she would kill her, and suddenly assassin wants redemption, yeah right. Teresa's mistake was that she dealt with Pricilla like she did with Rosemary, underestimated her and believed her. See pages 52 and 53 and think again if I'm assuming things.

So the bolded text cant just be Priscilla's warping voice? She was losing control of her own body, I would think it would be a bit hard to control how you talk during that time, let alone think clearly.

So yes, you are assuming things, and Teresa never underestimated Rosemary, she toyed with Rosemary, she knew victory was assured, and flaunted it.

Priscilla: I will kill you ! I will never forgive you ! I will kill you ! ....
My papa was so kind to me, give me back my papa ! [tries to kill Teresa again with sudden attack]
<few minutes later she forgets that she wanted to kill her, lol>
Priscilla: Please, kill me while I still have a shred of humanity
[notice the strange change in font, that's not random, it obviously states she wasn't sincere and shows Teresa's naiveness and stupidity at that moment]

I imagine your priorities would switch pretty quickly when your own body started rebelling against you, and you started to turn into one of the things you hate the most. Above all else, Priscilla hated Yoma, and for her to be turning into one would have been her worst nightmare.



The strongest doesn't mean invincible, decide then what you want to say.

But some people certainly seem to think it equates to that.
Thankfully you dont seem to think so, but many others do not see it that way, I think your having a hard time understanding my point here.


You think that's boring, but now you're excited and flustered after small demonstration and few pictures of Priscilla fighting. You're denying yourself.
All depends on how it's served. For me stupid would be redemption and forgiveness to Priscilla.

You assume alot, saying that I am excited and lustered after a demonstration of Priscilla's power, glad you can read my mind and all, or think I can display my emotions that well over a bunch of text. :p

The only thing I am excited over is the fact that she isn't faking her madness, she really is innocent, at least as innocent as a human eating natural disaster can be.

and who the hell said anything about redemption and forgiveness?


Destroying the organization would be a pointless thing to do. Anyone who would want that, should be prepared to spill claymore's blood, if that was made by AB I would understand, but by other claymores (i.e fab 7) it just doesn't seem right. Exposing to the people their real faces is another thing, but that wouldn't be too flashy.

Destroying the Organization and leaving a power gap would be pointless, but replacing the organization isn't. The fab 7 seem pretty determined to take their revenge on the Organization. If Miria just wanted to expose them, she could have done so long ago.


I didn't mean to change her to Riful but the way she was just after awakening, that doesn't seem like Riful to me.

You stated you wanted Priscilla to be more vicious then Isley and Riful, I simply wanted to get the point across that it would be more boring that way. Priscilla was only ruthless when she was attacked, you notice she only defender herself, and eliminated those she consider a threat to herself.

What I has been implied is this; Priscilla is like a monstrous child, her words could very well have a double meaning, it is possible she honestly meant that Irene shouldn't leave something as important as her arm lying around.

She also did not want Irene and the others to kill her, so she defender herself instead.


The organization had to do sth to prevent Yoma from rampaging, after they appeared Yoma had to conceal themselves and couldn't prey on humans openly anymore, hunting became harder to them. They didn't know side effects of their doings before they appeared, immediately they came up with countermeasures.
We are like organization, we make our lives easier, but pollute air and destroy nature, does it mean that all should live like Amish ?

You assume alot, why would Yoma not have hid themselves before? Humans are still capable of killing them if they just hunt in the open, thats why they can shape-shift, to conceal themselves.

and they still do prey on humans openly.

The organization's interest definitely does not coincide with making our lives easier.

The payment for what claymores are doing is adequate, only once we saw that they overdid when Teresa demanded double payment. I don't think anyone would prefer not paying and be eaten by yoma.

Double pay is because of two Yoma, implying that each Yoma costs a large sum of money, as in the Organization is raping the poor villagers of their hard earned money, that they need to live their lives.

Of course no one would not pay, everyone wants to live, but that does not change the fact they are being robbed in broad daylight.

Also you're writing sth about good indoctrination program. Fab 7 and all that were in Pieta are proof of that ;). Alicia, Beth and Priscilla followed them only because they couldn't think by themselves (read: they were too stupid), but others are just soldiers not puppets. Even such devoted warrior as Audrey revealed confidential information to Miria.

You notice how a majority of the warriors that were sent to Pieta died right?
Seems like the Organization did damn well in stomping out that potential problem, and with the profit of slowing down an AB force.

Also the 3 devout followers you mentioned were powerhouses you know. They alone would be more then enough to discourage a vast majority of people from rebelling, especially openly.

Audrey also owed the 7 Ghosts her life, and she still denied them alot of the important information they wanted, Miria only got information out of Audrey because she read her like a book. Audrey only gave information to Clare, and stated that she would be their enemies the next time they met.

Sounds like pretty decent indoctrination to me. ;)

P.S. I love debates like this :heh:

[Negativedark]

First of all, how do you know Priscilla planned it? She could have just lost control in the last minute, like Clare did with her Awakened limbs, and her Yoma half could have taken over and killed Teresa. How do we know if Priscilla the Claymore intended to kill Teresa in that moment? Especially when she was begging for death.

The truth is we cant know, and you are making an assumption.



.

The way it plays out makes me think it's intentional, not instinctive. Priss didn't just lash out, she stealthily (at least that's how it looks in the manga, I don't know how it played out in the anime.) reaches forward and grabs the hilt of her sword. If she had used her claws, or been holding onto her sword to begin with, I may be tempted to belive that it was instinctually acting to preserve herself. I belive that when Priscilla told Teresa to kill her she ment it. But she then changed her mind, or rather her mind changed.
Also I belive the immediatly awakened Priss has to have a compleatly different personality from the current Priss. One does not go from "I'll slowly eat them alive." to "Why is everyone acting so scared? I'm just eating what I like." One is compleatly aware of the fact that what she's doing will kill people, and revels in it, and the other has no grasp of the deaths that will resualt, and thus cannot comprehend everyones terror.

[Gooral]

P.S. I love debates like this

Me too, I will try to think of sth tomorrow :D

[Tempest35]

And what's wrong with forgiving Priscilla??? Forgiveness for her is the only redemption she has left. Forgiving her doesn't excuse her from her crimes, but it does release her from the shame and guilt of those crimes. If I'm reading anime Priscilla correctly, if and when she remembers who she is and what she's done - Raki's and subsequetly Clare's forgiveness could mean a peaceful quiet passing for her or a violent, bloody death along with the deaths of those falling to kill her.

...wait a minute :eyebrow:...most people here want a 'violent, bloody death' for what she did to their Teresa... :sigh:

And before anyone starts on how she deserves the worst death possible, think about how much work that would take for one (ie. look what Clare's had to go through), and two, just what sort of person would that make you if you keep on insisting on exacting 'eye for an eye' on Priscilla after all these years? These questions are what I believe Clare will have to face in the future because of this.

I'm not saying she deserves to be spared from death, but she doesn't deserve all the hate from killing Teresa because that's exactly what Clare's hunting her for. Clare is not a saint for trying to kill Priscilla. She didn't start out fighting for the people in all those towns that Priscilla killed and ruined - that was just extra baggage/justification to her. All the justification she needed was that Priscilla killed Teresa - end of story. Even though she's taken on Ilene's and Ophelia's vengance and added them to her own, it still doesn't make the quest a good one. Revenge is always petty - no matter how good the reasons because you'll always end up doing to other people exactly what's been done to you and you'll end up just like the people you try and get revenge on. Who really wins in that case? If one fights for more than just revenge, then I can understand and get behind that. If you've read the manga past the Invasion of Pieta, you'll understand Miria's reasoning for fighting Clare again.

Well, that's what I think of it but I'll wait until Priscilla 'remembers' everything again, then pass 'final judgement' on her on that note.

[hollywoodlou]

And what's wrong with forgiving Priscilla??? Forgiveness for her is the only redemption she has left. Forgiving her doesn't excuse her from her crimes, but it does release her from the shame and guilt of those crimes. If I'm reading anime Priscilla correctly, if and when she remembers who she is and what she's done - Raki's and subsequetly Clare's forgiveness could mean a peaceful quiet passing for her or a violent, bloody death along with the deaths of those falling to kill her.

...wait a minute :eyebrow:...most people here want a 'violent, bloody death' for what she did to their Teresa... :sigh:

And before anyone starts on how she deserves the worst death possible, think about how much work that would take for one (ie. look what Clare's had to go through), and two, just what sort of person would that make you if you keep on insisting on exacting 'eye for an eye' on Priscilla after all these years? These questions are what I believe Clare will have to face in the future because of this.

I'm not saying she deserves to be spared from death, but she doesn't deserve all the hate from killing Teresa because that's exactly what Clare's hunting her for. Clare is not a saint for trying to kill Priscilla. She didn't start out fighting for the people in all those towns that Priscilla killed and ruined - that was just extra baggage/justification to her. All the justification she needed was that Priscilla killed Teresa - end of story. Even though she's taken on Ilene's and Ophelia's vengance and added them to her own, it still doesn't make the quest a good one. Revenge is always petty - no matter how good the reasons because you'll always end up doing to other people exactly what's been done to you and you'll end up just like the people you try and get revenge on. Who really wins in that case? If one fights for more than just revenge, then I can understand and get behind that. If you've read the manga past the Invasion of Pieta, you'll understand Miria's reasoning for fighting Clare again.

Well, that's what I think of it but I'll wait until Priscilla 'remembers' everything again, then pass 'final judgement' on her on that note.

Sorry, I WONT follow Claymore IF I knew Clare was going to forgive her @ the end of the series. This isn't Spiderman 3. Claymore is a tragedy, not a romantic play and forgiveness isn't one of it's strong points. Claymore is about the road to vengeance, camaraderie and suffering.

Pris DESERVES the same painful fate that led to Clare's volunteering to be a yoma in the first place, It's NOT only about what she did to Teresa. It;s the effect of Priscilla's EXISTENCE that is the heart of the series. Utter destruction of Priscilla will NOt bring back Teresa but where's the sense of justice in that if she didn't meet her demise in the end?

[Defiled one]

Sorry, I WONT follow Claymore IF I knew Clare was going to forgive her @ the end of the series. This isn't Spiderman 3. Claymore is a tragedy, not a romantic play and forgiveness isn't one of it's strong points. Claymore is about the road to vengeance, camaraderie and suffering.

Pris DESERVES the same painful fate that led to Clare's volunteering to be a yoma in the first place, It's NOT only about what she did to Teresa. It;s the effect of Priscilla's EXISTENCE that is the heart of the series. Utter destruction of Priscilla will NOt bring back Teresa but where's the sense of justice in that if she didn't meet her demise in the end?

Justice...Some people think death can end it all but. You kill Priscilla and then what? Who will take her place? Clare...and she won´t be a nice person either. Don´t pretend, you know she´s a horrible petty monster.
Justice serves to correct, not to punish. Let nature run freely, revenge won´t bring Clare more strenght either. If she´s lucky she might kill her, or she might kill Clare. Didn´t you people say this is a tragedy? THEN LET US SEE THAT TRAGEDY!

You want revenge for Teresa, that´s selfish considering how much people died in more horrible ways because of Prscilla rampage but do you care? Do you even think that Priscilla must be stopped because of that? NO...You want Priscilla dead because she killed Teresa..the rest can go to hell.

You people wouldn´t nice Judges though. You have feelings while I, lost them a long time. :rolleyes:

[Anh_Minh]

And what's wrong with forgiving Priscilla??? Forgiveness for her is the only redemption she has left. Forgiving her doesn't excuse her from her crimes, but it does release her from the shame and guilt of those crimes. If I'm reading anime Priscilla correctly, if and when she remembers who she is and what she's done - Raki's and subsequetly Clare's forgiveness could mean a peaceful quiet passing for her or a violent, bloody death along with the deaths of those falling to kill her.

...wait a minute :eyebrow:...most people here want a 'violent, bloody death' for what she did to their Teresa... :sigh:

And before anyone starts on how she deserves the worst death possible, think about how much work that would take for one (ie. look what Clare's had to go through), and two, just what sort of person would that make you if you keep on insisting on exacting 'eye for an eye' on Priscilla after all these years? These questions are what I believe Clare will have to face in the future because of this.

I'm not saying she deserves to be spared from death, but she doesn't deserve all the hate from killing Teresa because that's exactly what Clare's hunting her for. Clare is not a saint for trying to kill Priscilla. She didn't start out fighting for the people in all those towns that Priscilla killed and ruined - that was just extra baggage/justification to her. All the justification she needed was that Priscilla killed Teresa - end of story. Even though she's taken on Ilene's and Ophelia's vengance and added them to her own, it still doesn't make the quest a good one. Revenge is always petty - no matter how good the reasons because you'll always end up doing to other people exactly what's been done to you and you'll end up just like the people you try and get revenge on. Who really wins in that case? If one fights for more than just revenge, then I can understand and get behind that. If you've read the manga past the Invasion of Pieta, you'll understand Miria's reasoning for fighting Clare again.

Well, that's what I think of it but I'll wait until Priscilla 'remembers' everything again, then pass 'final judgement' on her on that note.
Are Clare's motivations that important to determining if her quest is a good one? Does the lack of purity in her motives make Priscilla's continued existence any less of a blight?

Clare's shown herself consistently willing to go out of her way to save people, so I don't buy the claims that her quest for vengeance dehumanized her. And no, I don't attribute to Raki the credit for her compassionate nature. The only thing he did was recognize it, but it was there before he came around, and after he left.

So what if Clare's moved by vengeance? Priscilla deserves to die, and Clare isn't turning into the monster she's fighting (though there have been a few close calls). That's what matters.

Justice...Some people think death can end it all but. You kill Priscilla and then what? Who will take her place? Clare...and she won´t be a nice person either. Don´t pretend, you know she´s a horrible petty monster.
That's daft. Why would anyone take Priscilla's place? There isn't a fixed number of Awakened Ones, you know...

Justice serves to correct, not to punish.
Justice has many purposes. And what alternative do you propose?

Let nature run freely,
Not when it's killing us, let's not. Is that your favorite course of action? It's nature at work, let's let Priscilla eat our guts!?


revenge won´t bring Clare more strenght either. If she´s lucky she might kill her, or she might kill Clare. Didn´t you people say this is a tragedy? THEN LET US SEE THAT TRAGEDY!

You want revenge for Teresa, that´s selfish considering how much people died in more horrible ways because of Prscilla rampage but do you care?
I do. Do you?

Do you even think that Priscilla must be stopped because of that?
I do. By the way, where did Hollywoodlou say otherwise? Are you having fun fighting a straw man?

NO...You want Priscilla dead because she killed Teresa..the rest can go to hell.

You people wouldn´t nice Judges though. You have feelings while I, lost them a long time. :rolleyes:

What do you mean?

[Fenrir_valindri]

I never really agreed with Priscilla being forgiven by the end of the series, although Priscilla herself may desire it near the end.

I personally think she is just incapable of being killed now. It might be possible that Clare finds that, no matter what she does, Priscilla is just beyond her ability to kill.

Claymore is a shounen above all else, and that means themes such as forgivness are not impossible, and themes of tragedy do not automatically make forgiveness impossible, but by the end of the series, I think either Priscilla will be dead, or Clare will be.

Now that would be a tragic ending.

Edit: I find myself agreeing, somewhat, with Defiled one.
Clare's quest, like it or not, is one of simple petty revenge, Priscilla is indeed a monster, and it sure would be nice if she did not stay around to kill people, but then again it would be real nice if natural disasters stopped killing people too. (yeah yeah I am sure you guys will pick that apart.)


To Negativedark: That is kind of what I ment about instinctual, I was refering to her Yoma half, but I suppose I was not to clear on that >.< thanks for helping me clear that up.

[Hamstadini]

Sorry, I WONT follow Claymore IF I knew Clare was going to forgive her @ the end of the series. This isn't Spiderman 3. Claymore is a tragedy, not a romantic play and forgiveness isn't one of it's strong points. Claymore is about the road to vengeance, camaraderie and suffering.

Pris DESERVES the same painful fate that led to Clare's volunteering to be a yoma in the first place, It's NOT only about what she did to Teresa. It;s the effect of Priscilla's EXISTENCE that is the heart of the series. Utter destruction of Priscilla will NOt bring back Teresa but where's the sense of justice in that if she didn't meet her demise in the end?

Translation: WE WANTS BLOOD! *Grabs nearest virgin sacrifice and rips out a big chunk of her jugular vein with his teeth*

[Anh_Minh]

Translation: WE WANTS BLOOD! *Grabs nearest virgin sacrifice and rips out a big chunk of her jugular vein with his teeth*
Translation: we want loli! *Grabs the nearest hundreds of random people to feed the loli*

Are you sure you want to make it a fight of caricatures?

[Fenrir_valindri]

Still not seeing Priscilla as a Loli, Riful/Miata are the only Loli's I really acknowledge in Claymore :p

Edit:
To respond to hollywoodlou;

Priscilla is actually living quite the painful life right now, she is suffering in the fact she is mentally a child searching for a family she will never find, and now she is being used as a tool by one of the most powerful creatures around, despite the fact she herself is much stronger.

Priscilla is now basically a child that has no sense of direction, no sense of purpose other then to find her lost family.

Her living is actually much more painful then anything Clare could probably do to her.
and I am not too sure if Teresa would approve of Clare's quest now either.

[Hamstadini]

@ Anh Minh: I'm not a loli lover. I'd rather have legal, thanks... and you have done nothing to disprove my point that people who want Priscilla dead are violent bloodthirsty berserkers.

@ Fenir: You're forgetting Loli!Claire, everyone's favorite Teresa partner. :eyeroll:

[Fenrir_valindri]

@ Fenir: You're forgetting Loli!Claire, everyone's favorite Teresa partner. :eyeroll:

Crap, your right, but she grew up :eyebrow:

[Hamstadini]

Good thing too, or else we'd never see the end of the production of Lolipairing Doujins.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Good thing too, or else we'd never see the end of the production of Lolipairing Doujins.

True dat, I am still suprised their aren't more Claymore doujin out there though. :D

(Fantisizes about Miria)

mmmmm, oh wait, off subject.

Err yeah, um Priscilla as she is now is not truly the same Priscilla responsible for Teresa's death, she has reverated to her childhood, thus making the task of killing her the same thing as killing a innocent (albiet monsterously powerful and dangerous) child.

Edit; Hamstadini, I just looked at your album, and I must say, LOL!

[Hamstadini]

I bagged an LOL! *Dances* ^^

Just to stay on topic, remember the time Claire nearly sliced Raki in half due to her body going out of control? Why isn't the same possibility considered for Priscilla?

[Fenrir_valindri]

I bagged an LOL! *Dances* ^^

Just to stay on topic, remember the time Claire nearly sliced Raki in half due to her body going out of control? Why isn't the same possibility considered for Priscilla?

I must say I think this said it best;

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/Hamstadini/motivator8412669.jpg

[hollywoodlou]

Translation: WE WANTS BLOOD! *Grabs nearest virgin sacrifice and rips out a big chunk of her jugular vein with his teeth*

Translation: let crimes be left unpunished. BOy, we are living in a fantasy world, aren't we?

Edit:
To respond to hollywoodlou;

Priscilla is actually living quite the painful life right now, she is suffering in the fact she is mentally a child searching for a family she will never find, and now she is being used as a tool by one of the most powerful creatures around, despite the fact she herself is much stronger.

Priscilla is now basically a child that has no sense of direction, no sense of purpose other then to find her lost family.

Her living is actually much more painful then anything Clare could probably do to her.
and I am not too sure if Teresa would approve of Clare's quest now either.

I remember this...pleading "insanity" to escape the gas chamber, right? You say she's "suffering" because she's lost her family? Now who's bright idea was that she go berserk in the first place hunting down Teresa because she WAS ORIGINALLY spared by Teresa, right after Irene told her not to?

And who's to say that in the future, she'll remember everything, be conscious of who she is (which is a monster/killer) and snuff out Isley? You are thinking this "amnesia" of hers is permanent, it;s NOT. It'll come back soon...

[Fenrir_valindri]

Translation: let crimes be left unpunished. BOy, we are living in a fantasy world, aren't we?

Translation: I just wanted to do this because everyone else seemed to be doing it.

No really, I did.

I remember this...pleading "insanity" to escape the gas chamber, right? You say she's "suffering" because she's lost her family? Now who's bright idea was that she go berserk in the first place hunting down Teresa because she WAS ORIGINALLY spared by Teresa, right after Irene told her not to?

So I suppose we should kill every crazy person we come across now? That alot of people. World might be a safer place, but that doesn't make it any more right.

And who's to say that in the future, she'll remember everything, be conscious of who she is (which is a monster/killer) and snuff out Isley? You are thinking this "amnesia" of hers is permanent, it;s NOT. It'll come back soon...

There is a whole lot of assumption in that small paragraph, whose to say her getting her memory back would be a bad thing? She might show some true remorse then, Priscilla was never mentally stable, so logic is ftl when trying to discern her actions.

[Defiled one]

In response. I see Priscilla as not human, normal laws do not apply but rather nature´s laws.
I do not feel hatred for an being that tries to survive, nevertheless I would defend myself from a predator to the point of killing it or trying to make it go away.
Priscilla death was never questioned unless when people mentioned "tragedy" ending.
Second, what solution do seek? Priscilla is not the only one that eats so it doesn´t really matter, the killings will continue...just that there will be a lesser mouth the feed.
I really doubt going on a Crusade agains´t awakened and youmas would do any good considering how MUCH STRONGER THEY ARE....The cost of men would be enourmous and the villages would be defenseless a total disaster...no possible way to defend ourself, Plus the order doesn´t really care if we die. Claymores only care if they get paid.
This is a world of, everyone for himself, means more than justice. Humans are not at the top of the food chain nor they will ever be. You cannot fight it..the result ended with more stronger creatures such as awakened and Abyssal and Priscilla.
Nothing will change.
Besides.... If you want to kill priscilla, use your brains not your heart. Or you might end as her.

But please don´say she deserves to die just because she killed Teresa. Consider her a threat to your survival instead.

[Fenrir_valindri]

@Defiled One

bravo, rather well put, and I agree on almost all those points.

[Tempest35]

Are Clare's motivations that important to determining if her quest is a good one? Does the lack of purity in her motives make Priscilla's continued existence any less of a blight?
I believe that 'motive' makes the difference between 'murder' and 'execution'. Sure, there's no official court of law to say 'yea' or 'nay' on it but Priscilla deserves an execution - not a murder. She ends up dead either way but the way it is arrived at is totally different and that makes the difference. If that wasn't the case, then every executioner in history is a murderer.


Clare's shown herself consistently willing to go out of her way to save people, so I don't buy the claims that her quest for vengeance dehumanized her. And no, I don't attribute to Raki the credit for her compassionate nature. The only thing he did was recognize it, but it was there before he came around, and after he left. So what if Clare's moved by vengeance? Priscilla deserves to die, and Clare isn't turning into the monster she's fighting (though there have been a few close calls). That's what matters.

She isn't turning into the monster she's fighting? Did you not see Ep 23? Forget Raki's expression - Miria's expression, Jean's expression, the worried sounds coming from everyone? She was turning into a vengance demon trying to kill Rigald right there for Jean and Flora. 'What ifs' have merit in this situation as well - what if she Awakened? Then Miria and the others would have to deal with a fresh Awakened who just defeated their strongest opponent. Result = so bad I could cry.
Vengance has a nasty habit of consuming many that wield it, especially in the name of correcting a wrong. There may be alternatives but I doubt Clare's thinking of them right now.


Justice has many purposes. And what alternative do you propose?
-and-
Not when it's killing us, let's not. Is that your favorite course of action? It's nature at work, let's let Priscilla eat our guts!?
Nature didn't create Awakened beings - Man did. The Natural Order of animals screams that Youma are not natural yet it is in their nature or predisposition to prey upon humans. I'm sure everyone knows that since Youma eat humans and that Claymores are humans fused with Youma bits, it's only 'natural' that an Awakened one will eat humans. The irony would be picture perfect if only the Awakened beings went after the ones who begat them instead of the populace.

---Can they change? I'm pretty sure they can't especially considering that Priscilla was weeping even while she hungrily ate the intestines. She was freaking starving herself but she can't override her new nature, no matter how hard she may try to resist it.---

The only 'justice' about killing Priscilla that I can see people wanting so far is for the 'wrongful death' of Teresa. That don't fly far.
It is not in the name of justice that Priscilla should be struck down but rather survival. To ensure the survival of innocent people who have families and such who are trying to life as best they can in a world already filled with man-eaters, both human AND youma. In the face of that, yes Clare's vengance thing for Teresa is pretty damn petty.

EDIT: @ Fenrir - Hey anime and manga are both official... The 'expressions' stand. As for Priscilla...meh, I'll concede on that one...I'll separate it but that's it...*grumble grumble*

[Fenrir_valindri]

@Tempest35

Danger tempest! You are entering anime-only events zone!

If you are going to use examples, use the ones from the manga :p

[Anh_Minh]

@ Anh Minh: I'm not a loli lover. I'd rather have legal, thanks... and you have done nothing to disprove my point that people who want Priscilla dead are violent bloodthirsty berserkers.


Yes, just as you've done nothing to prove it.

[hollywoodlou]

So I suppose we should kill every crazy person we come across now? That alot of people. World might be a safer place, but that doesn't make it any more right.

Why dont you actually re=phrase it as "crazy people who KILLED other people"?

There is a whole lot of assumption in that small paragraph, whose to say her getting her memory back would be a bad thing? She might show some true remorse then, Priscilla was never mentally stable, so logic is ftl when trying to discern her actions.

Hmmm, she seemed logical when she was trying to explain her position that if Teresa broke the laws of the ORg by killing a HUMAN being, then TERESA should be KILLED.

Does that sound like a crazy person to you?
*****

I mean if we are in a "forgiving" mood, Clare should've forgiven Rigald for killing the Captains,
Deneve should've forgiven the yoma for killing her sister
Ophelia shouldb've forgiven Priscilla for killing her brother
etc...

[Defiled one]

You know....This is actually interesting and satirical. Anh-Minh actually gave me the idea in his prior posts.

If something like Priscilla, for example, appeared in our world. Our 21 century world with no Claymores and youmas....And the masses saw her live from TV ...Not a pretty sight seeing her eat.

Do you really think that any government would want to kill her? No, they wouldn´t even touch her considering how much power hungry they would be...Just like the Org of Claymores. A living biological weapon that does not age, immune to sickness and poison, regeneration beyond anything ever recorded.

They wouldn´t put her near a court even if she talked and proved her intelligence.
The masses cries would fall in deaf ears, kill her, lock her, stop trying to reproduce it...etc.

Pure greed... to the point of starting wars. That´s what the Org wants

It´s a what if scenario that we knew would happen.

[Anh_Minh]

So I suppose we should kill every crazy person we come across now? That alot of people. World might be a safer place, but that doesn't make it any more right.
How about killing every crazy who also happens to be a mass murderer with a three digit body count or more?

Or, you know, at least hold them in a secure facility in such a way that they can't kill any more... but that's not an option for Priscilla.

There is a whole lot of assumption in that small paragraph, whose to say her getting her memory back would be a bad thing? She might show some true remorse then, Priscilla was never mentally stable, so logic is ftl when trying to discern her actions.Oh, remorse. Yeah, that'd be helpful. It would bring all her meals back to life. And change her physiology back to one that doesn't need human flesh.

Or not.

In response. I see Priscilla as not human, normal laws do not apply but rather nature´s laws.
Nature's laws say that if you throw an apple in the air it'll fall back down (unless your throwing arm is ridiculously strong, I guess...). They don't say anything about whether Priscilla should be hunted down or not.

I do not feel hatred for an being that tries to survive, nevertheless I would defend myself from a predator to the point of killing it or trying to make it go away. On that point, we're in agreement.

Priscilla death was never questioned unless when people mentioned "tragedy" ending.I just don't see anything tragic about Priscilla's death. Her life, possibly, but her death? I totally fail to care about her redemption or immaterial stuff like that.

Second, what solution do seek? Priscilla is not the only one that eats so it doesn´t really matter, the killings will continue...just that there will be a lesser mouth the feed. You can't stop all the murderers, so let's not stop any. You can't cure all the diseases, so let's cure none. Yeah, that makes sense.


I really doubt going on a Crusade agains´t awakened and youmas would do any good considering how MUCH STRONGER THEY ARE....The cost of men would be enourmous and the villages would be defenseless a total disaster...no possible way to defend ourself, Plus the order doesn´t really care if we die.Killing Priscilla isn't a long term solution to the youma problem, that's true. So? Why should it be?


Claymores only care if they get paid.No, the organisation does. From what we've seen, the Claymores are rather indifferent to money.

This is a world of, everyone for himself, means more than justice. Humans are not at the top of the food chain nor they will ever be.Probably not, though good microscopes and high explosives might change the balance of powers. Of course, I doubt the manga will go that route.

You cannot fight it..the result ended with more stronger creatures such as awakened and Abyssal and Priscilla.
Nothing will change.
Besides.... If you want to kill priscilla, use your brains not your heart. Or you might end as her.Who said not to use our brains? You're the bleeding heart looking for reasons to pity her. Me, I don't particularly care. I just want her dead.

But please don´say she deserves to die just because she killed Teresa. Consider her a threat to your survival instead.It's both. The two aren't mutually exclusive. And, as I said, I really don't see how motives matter.

I believe that 'motive' makes the difference between 'murder' and 'execution'. Sure, there's no official court of law to say 'yea' or 'nay' on it but Priscilla deserves an execution - not a murder. She ends up dead either way but the way it is arrived at is totally different and that makes the difference. If that wasn't the case, then every executioner in history is a murderer.
OK, we've hit a philosophical divide between us. To me, if someone deserves to die, I don't care about the reasons people volunteer to wield the ax. Be it for money, vengeance, or voices in their heads, it's all good.

Of course, their motivations say something about their characters. That will mean different levels of trustworthiness and likability. But it doesn't matter when judging their actions.


She isn't turning into the monster she's fighting? Did you not see Ep 23?Yeah, as I said, a few close calls.

Forget Raki's expression - Miria's expression, Jean's expression, the worried sounds coming from everyone? She was turning into a vengance demon trying to kill Rigald right there for Jean and Flora.And, incidentally, to save Miria's life.

And people worried, not because she was trying to avenge her friends, but because she was Awakening. It had nothing to do with the morals of vengeance, and everything with worrying about her friend or foe status.


'What ifs' have merit in this situation as well - what if she Awakened? Then Miria and the others would have to deal with a fresh Awakened who just defeated their strongest opponent. Result = so bad I could cry.And without her partial awakening, Miria would have died, followed everyone else.

Well, with her plan, I suppose there would have been a few survivors. Whatever.

Vengance has a nasty habit of consuming many that wield it, especially in the name of correcting a wrong. There may be alternatives but I doubt Clare's thinking of them right now.As I said, it wasn't just about vengeance.

And Clare isn't, for example, killing innocents right and left, and claiming it's alright, "because it's for the sake of killing Priscilla". So her vengeance can't be consuming her that badly.


The only 'justice' about killing Priscilla that I can see people wanting so far is for the 'wrongful death' of Teresa. That don't fly far.
It is not in the name of justice that Priscilla should be struck down but rather survival. To ensure the survival of innocent people who have families and such who are trying to life as best they can in a world already filled with man-eaters, both human AND youma. In the face of that, yes Clare's vengance thing for Teresa is pretty damn petty.I agree that the main reason Priscilla should die is to protect all her future potential meals. I just fail to see why it should matter what Clare wants to get out of Pris' death.


It´s a what if scenario that we knew would happen.
We don't know anything of the sort.

[Guido]

In response. I see Priscilla as not human, normal laws do not apply but rather nature´s laws.
I do not feel hatred for an being that tries to survive, nevertheless I would defend myself from a predator to the point of killing it or trying to make it go away.
Priscilla death was never questioned unless when people mentioned "tragedy" ending.
Second, what solution do seek? Priscilla is not the only one that eats so it doesn´t really matter, the killings will continue...just that there will be a lesser mouth the feed.
I really doubt going on a Crusade agains´t awakened and youmas would do any good considering how MUCH STRONGER THEY ARE....The cost of men would be enourmous and the villages would be defenseless a total disaster...no possible way to defend ourself, Plus the order doesn´t really care if we die. Claymores only care if they get paid.
This is a world of, everyone for himself, means more than justice. Humans are not at the top of the food chain nor they will ever be. You cannot fight it..the result ended with more stronger creatures such as awakened and Abyssal and Priscilla.
Nothing will change.
Besides.... If you want to kill priscilla, use your brains not your heart. Or you might end as her.

But please don´say she deserves to dies just becuase she killed Teresa. Cnsider her a threath to your survival instead.


Defiled One I really like and have little to no disputes to argue with your theory about Priscilla at the following link below:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1133900&postcount=21

You made an interesting point that is growing more sense on me and has made me wonder the nature of Priscilla's action that brought Teresa's death.

Was it for revenge?; maybe a last desperate struggle for survival?; how about fear?; or just plainly put hatred?

I think it was a complex and ambiguous amalgam of all the choices above.

What makes Priscilla so dangerous and possibly the apex predator, that is the being at the top of the food chain, is not only her near-infinite storage of Youki and unmeasurable hunger, but the fact that her mentality upon awakening became a messed-up amalgam between a toddler child and a Yoma due to massive post traumatic stress disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder).

Ok. Priscilla's not the single case of an orphaned child who has been sole survivor of a Yoma's slaughter. The other orphaned girls who were turned into claymores unwillingly have as well their own traumatic complexes and issues.

But Priscilla's case of surviving a yoma attack is both an exceptional and unbelievable one. If anyone recalled what the yoma of episode one, which posed as Raki's brother, told was that there was no way ever for a human to win against the yoma. They are the superior predators to humans and can do nothing against them.

Yet, the pre-awakened Priscilla recounted that she successfully managed to sneaked behind the yoma which posed as her father and chopped off his head.

It could be possible to sneak behind a yoma with timing and keeping your movements sharp and silent to the max, but how on earth a little human girl with scare to zero strength (from the point of view of an adult human) was a able to decapitate a yoma with whatever small, butchering tool was at her disposal?

You ask me, Priscilla already had a monster within her shortly before she became a Claymore. That monster was borned the moment she killed the yoma which disguised as her father. The yoma viciously betrayed and shattered her innocence and the gentle image she had for her father.

I have reasons now to suspect that the Org right away picked up Priscilla once finding out about the miraculous outcome of her survival. They could likely have sensed that chibi Priscilla had something within her.

If you ask me, I believe that the reason why chibi Priscilla killed that yoma was because she snapped by brute and raw survival instinct. Under the extreme horror and insane tragedy her mind exploded beyond the limits.

The potential that both Irene and Teresa felt within Priscilla likely to me is....

a monstrous instinct for self-preservation and survival.


The Org did not intend for Priscilla to become their next No. 1 at that time, they wanted Priscilla to become their new No. 1
They tested Priscilla to measure and check if she would live up to their standards by assigning her with the hunting team to kill Teresa. What a perfect and favorable scenario to gauge her hidden potential but by piting her against Teresa, the apex claymore.

Too bad that both the Org and an astonished Teresa never foresaw the truth about Priscilla's brute instinct for self-survival.

The result of her Awakening is a body that reacts on instinctive self-preservation. This principle is the same, for example, as in Gaara's sand shield.

Let me explain.
I believe that since Priscilla, even for Awakened standards, is just a mental child her body moves against her will when her body cells feel in unison an imminent danger to her existence.

The best evidence was in the extra third chapter when her left hand on lightning speed caught and crushed Isleys' arrows with no effort at all. But the creepy aspect to it was that Priscilla never felt the threat coming. Her hand to me just moved on its own to fend off the attack.


This same brute instinct of self-preservation provokes on her body to create, build-up, and release an infinite supply of youki that never runs out and allows for her instantaneous regeneration and inexhaustible stamina.

Put in simple matters Awakened Priscilla plainly refuses to die. How her body turned out is not the result of releasing her unnatural powers but of a very human natural instinct to survive under an evil stress and fear of death by a monster.

[Defiled one]

OH! You just don´t give up won´t you. -_- Nom Nom Nom

First, there is a difference between curing sickness and hunting criminals...is that it tends to decrease while Youmas just increase in number not to mention awakened.
Second, if I am the pity heart why do I even agree with her death?

The others are aceptable Anh-Minh

[hollywoodlou]

Anh Minh already took the words out of my mouth.

Priscilla will get what she deserved in the end and if u ask the majority of the posters here...what's more credible: Clare forgiving Priscilla OR cutting her head off in the end? Priscilla's annihilation is the sole objective of the series.

[Negativedark]

Even if she's forgiven, even if she's remorsefull, Priscilla will still have to die. She's like the shark in Jaws. she's just doing what her instincts tell her to do. But since those instincts make her a huge threat she has to be stopped. She's just too devistating to let run lose. Isley had to do something about her when she first appeared in the north. Not only was it his territory, but look at the rate she was going through villages. If that had gone on very long, there would have been no one left in the north for any of the awakened to eat. Priscilla is like a little kid, but remember that in addition to their innocence they have no grasp of the consequences, and very primitave idea's of right and wrong. The last time I visited a friend, I had to ask what happened to his two year old son, since he had a bruise on his face. It seems that his other, slightly older son, had pushed the two year old into a wall. There was no malice in the act, the older boy just had no grasp of what he was doing, and how it was wrong to do it. But that doesn't mean he can just shrug, and let it happen again.

On another topic, judging by her abilities, and how she acts/talks, I'd say Priscilla is definetly a defensive type.

[sariss]

Well...this chapter makes me glad. I wonder for a long time if Isley loves Priscilla that much to do anything for her or he just have his plan for power scheming in his brain......

So when I saw his smile at the end of this chapter, I felt a lot relieved. Wow...I love this guy....he just have his conqueror plan by using Priscilla for a long time, I guess. I like him more now that he seems to be the one who make pawns either they are stronger or weaker than him and is confident that he can control them. I think he admit defeat just so to use her as an valuable asset in his future plans. This chapter ensures me that the smile I saw of him in the his fight with Luciela is the smile of the one who everything went according to his plan , not a smile of a devoted love of the defeat. Priscilla is far faraway from being the final boss from what I've looked now. And Isley or the Org. is the more possible choice of that.

And I have to say if Teresa 's still alive , it seems she can beat all three abyssals easily. Looking from the damage Priscilla did to Isley, that makes me certain Teresa is the strongest person in Claymore now.

[Fenrir_valindri]

I think what they ment by tragedy is this, Priscilla doesn't die in the end because Clare fails, and dies, that is what I ment by tragic at least.

Or she Awakens while killing Priscilla one of the two would be sufficient for tragedy.

I was not arguing for Priscilla's redemption, I was just mentioning it as a possibility.


To anh minh;

We do have the insanity plea for a reason, we don't kill insane people if they cannot be held responsible for their actions, at least we try not too.

-----------------------------------------------

Priscilla is a threat to humans, and she should be eliminated because she is a threat, but I don't see her as a murderer, and I do not think she deserves to die for what she has done.

She simply NEEDS to die if humans are to live a little bit safer, and if Clare fails to kill Priscilla, I would not be surprised.

---------------------------------------

As for Teresa being stronger then the Abyssal Ones, I think she was probably slightly stronger then them without awakening, but if she Awakened she would probably be the only being around who could kill Priscilla.

I do like the fact Isley is using Priscilla though, he makes a good bad guy.

[Hamstadini]

It seems to me that we've kinda strayed from what the Claymores are actually doing out there and what the Yoma are doing... in fact my sleep deprivation might be blurring my perception a bit, but this has turned into a discussion of who's right and who's wrong.

Whether Priscilla was conscious of killing Teresa is up to debate. Her body was in such a flux that it's possible that her yoma half just...reacted. After that, it's nature - an Awakened feeds on people, therefore it's natural for her to kill and feast on humans. That doesn't make it any more right or wrong, it's just what they do.

Thus Claymores can't find Priscilla guilty or "deserving" of anything, since she doesn't seem conscious of her actions. However, they can go to war against her. Why? Because even though Priscilla may be doing something completely natural in the Claymore world, it's at a detriment to humanity. And I think we all know that humans will fight tooth and nail to stay alive.

Thus, it's not a battle of justice. It's just force of will.

Okay, enough of the delirious talk. Time for bed.

*Collapses onto the slab of granite.*

Oy...

[Gooral]

So the bolded text cant just be Priscilla's warping voice? She was losing control of her own body, I would think it would be a bit hard to control how you talk during that time, let alone think clearly.
Nope, don't think so and as I see it there are people on this forum that agree with me. Read Negativedark's response(...)



So yes, you are assuming things, and Teresa never underestimated Rosemary, she toyed with Rosemary, she knew victory was assured, and flaunted it.
Don't play stupid, You know what I meant. Teresa approached Priscilla as she did with Rosemary, to be more precise, the moment she was about to cut her head off, she was toying with her too but not on such a scale, underestimated Priscilla not Rosemary.


But some people certainly seem to think it equates to that.
Thankfully you dont seem to think so, but many others do not see it that way, I think your having a hard time understanding my point here.

Ok, then again name these "some people" and qoute their opinions so I could believe You.



You assume alot, saying that I am excited and lustered after a demonstration of Priscilla's power, glad you can read my mind and all, or think I can display my emotions that well over a bunch of text. :p

I love Teresa's extra scene, I just dont believe it was as good as the other two.


So you more than just love Priscilla scene, what's the word stronger than love ? Super love ? You're denying yourself :]

Your behaviour resembles me of a joke:

Priscilla says to Isley:
If you guess how many guts I have in the basket, I will give you all five kilograms/eleven pounds of it.

Yeah I'm a mind reader

and who the hell said anything about redemption and forgiveness?

You didn't, true.
If not forgiveness then revenge remains and a fight Clare vs Priscilla.

If Miria just wanted to expose them, she could have done so long ago.
Nope, without evidence no one would believe silver-eyed witch, also if she started
to talk openely about organization's secrets she wouldn't live too long (org has quite good intelligence service, they know what's going on well). Take to account that there were no media so she would have to expose these things to villages one by one + hire some of the villageres to spread the rumours. Now she's powerful enough to escape organization but doesn't have proofs unless she demonstrated awakening process ;).

You assume alot, why would Yoma not have hid themselves before? Humans are still capable of killing them if they just hunt in the open, thats why they can shape-shift, to conceal themselves.
My assumptions are based on facts, volume 1 page 41. Why would youma not hid before ? Because of their superior abilities maybe (sarcasm) ? Check out by the chance that youma aren't better than the worst AB or humans.


Double pay is because of two Yoma, implying that each Yoma costs a large sum of money, as in the Organization is raping the poor villagers of their hard earned money, that they need to live their lives.
Double payment was only by Teresa's doing, she knew how to do a 200% rate of output, the best employee they ever had :].


You notice how a majority of the warriors that were sent to Pieta died right?
Seems like the Organization did damn well in stomping out that potential problem, and with the profit of slowing down an AB force.
True, but that doesn't change the fact that their "pretty decent indoctrination program" isn't so decent afterall if most of the claymores of one generation are left to die because this program didn't work.


Audrey also owed the 7 Ghosts her life, and she still denied them alot of the important information they wanted, Miria only got information out of Audrey because she read her like a book. Audrey only gave information to Clare, and stated that she would be their enemies the next time they met.

Sounds like pretty decent indoctrination to me. ;)
If Audrey was really loyal and couldn't think by herself but obey orders she wouldn't even say a word. She not only unwillingly gave information to Miria but also willingly told Clare about Galatea.
Clarice was loyal, why didn't You bring her as Your argument ? She was saved by these Ghosts, nonetheless she reported it to the organization.
The thing is all depends on who is strongminded and who's just stupid or easily manipulated. 72 chapter is proof of that they don't have "indoctrination program". Organization teaches them only "code of honour", claymores are working for organization only because organization is helping people and not because they have brains washed.

Whether Priscilla was conscious of killing Teresa is up to debate. Her body was in such a flux that it's possible that her yoma half just...reacted. After that, it's nature - an Awakened feeds on people, therefore it's natural for her to kill and feast on humans. That doesn't make it any more right or wrong, it's just what they do.



She was blinded by rage, she didn't listen to anyone the moment Teresa spared her life, it was her own actions not youma's

[Hamstadini]

Arguing aside, I just thought of something:

If Isley is bent on using Priscilla as a pawn, why didn't he send her to fight Leucritia for the lands of the south instead of risking himself? One might say he was leaving her as an ace-in-the-hole, but... :-S

[TinyRedLeaf]

Interesting chapter. Always awesome to see Isley in his awakened form -- I'm still of the opinion that he is by far the coolest looking Awakened Being. The extra scene reminds me why I like this series.

As for the anime, I've given up on it after the debacle that was episode 22. I can't even care less how the anime ends anymore. It's already a mess anyway.

One little detail I found interesting is Rigald's connection to Isley. I had planned a fanfic entirely around the first generation of male hybrids, building on the inherent animosity I detected between the two men. I never got around to completing the fanfic unfortunately, but it's still swoshing around in my imagination somewhere. :p

[Fenrir_valindri]

Let the quote wars BEGIN!!! :eyespin:


Nope, don't think so and as I see it there are people on this forum that agree with me. Read Negativedark's response

Just because people agree doesn't make it correct.

I could just as easily say Hamstadini agrees with me. (Great posts by the way Hamstadini.)



Don't play stupid, You know what I meant. Teresa approached Priscilla as she did with Rosemary, to be more precise, the moment she was about to cut her head off, she was toying with her too but not on such a scale, underestimated Priscilla not Rosemary.

I really did not see Teresa approaching Priscilla the way she approached Rosemary, with Rosemary, Teresa released her Yoki because she COULD, while with Priscilla she HAD to.
Teresa was no fool, she knew Priscilla was the real deal.


Ok, then again name these "some people" and qoute their opinions so I could believe You.

Give me a bit, its late and I'll look up some quotes for you later.


So you more than just love Priscilla scene, what's the word stronger than love ? Super love ? You're denying yourself :]

I loved it more then the Teresa chapter, primarily because it had 3 awesome characters in it, not just one.

Miria's chapter was my favorite, and I wont even try to argue that is the pure-fanboyism in me :p

Your behaviour resembles me of a joke:

Priscilla says to Isley:
If you guess how many guts I have in the basket, I will give you all five kilograms/eleven pounds of it.

Yeah I'm a mind reader

Your quite the poor mind reader ;) I just like to play devil's advocate, especially when I take the underdog's viewpoint (as in the one a majority of people don't agree with.)


You didn't, true.
If not forgiveness then revenge remains and a fight Clare vs Priscilla.

I fight I would rather have not find its conclusion, because in all honesty, I fear for Clare.

Nope, without evidence no one would believe silver-eyed witch, also if she started
to talk openely about organization's secrets she wouldn't live too long (org has quite good intelligence service, they know what's going on well). Take to account that there were no media so she would have to expose these things to villages one by one + hire some of the villageres to spread the rumours. Now she's powerful enough to escape organization but doesn't have proofs unless she demonstrated awakening process ;).

I was trying to make a point :p Miria's goal in not only to expose the Organization, it is to take revenge upon them, and possible take them down.

My assumptions are based on facts, volume 1 page 41. Why would youma not hid before ? Because of their superior abilities maybe (sarcasm) ? Check out by the chance that youma aren't better than the worst AB or humans.

Yes they controlled a small isolated village with a group of 5 Yoma, including a flyer. I saw no soldiers, and the Mangaka likes portraying humans as quite helpless against the Yoma, when we really wouldn't be.

Yoma are also supposivly solitary hunters normally, it is likely that the introduction of the Claymores is what started them on their hunting packs, so they could have a chance against the Claymores.

Notice even a strong Yoma like the one in Rabona ran away when a group of well armed and armored humans approached. :D

Double payment was only by Teresa's doing, she knew how to do a 200% rate of output, the best employee they ever had :].

During Teresa's arc she mentions that they would have had to pay the fee for multiple Yoma, since she killed 7, and she gave them a freebie in the end too, this heavily implies that they charge per-Yoma.

True, but that doesn't change the fact that their "pretty decent indoctrination program" isn't so decent afterall if most of the claymores of one generation are left to die because this program didn't work.

Not all the Claymore's sent North were trouble makers, most of them were probably just cannon-fodder to the Organization, and notice how they all followed orders like nice little lambs, until Miria started giving them a sense of purpose, and a chance for survival.

If Audrey was really loyal and couldn't think by herself but obey orders she wouldn't even say a word. She not only unwillingly gave information to Miria but also willingly told Clare about Galatea.

Being confused, and immensely grateful helped, she was unwilling with Miria, and probably did not see the harm in Clare's question, especially since she was not sure herself, and just gave Clare her guess.

Clarice was loyal, why didn't You bring her as Your argument ? She was saved by these Ghosts, nonetheless she reported it to the organization.

Clarice didn't actually know who had saved her, she just had her own theory, and since she found the graves, she probably did not see the harm of reporting them.

The thing is all depends on who is strongminded and who's just stupid or easily manipulated. 72 chapter is proof of that they don't have "indoctrination program". Organization teaches them only "code of honour", claymores are working for organization only because organization is helping people and not because they have brains washed.

Notice alot of powerhouses fall under your "stupid or easily manipulated" category; Alicia, Beth (both of which are products of brainwashing at its finest), Raphaela (some A+ blackmailing here), Priscilla (before she cracked), Irene (before she became afraid of battle), and Teresa (before she met Clare.)

She was blinded by rage, she didn't listen to anyone the moment Teresa spared her life, it was her own actions not youma's

Yes it was Priscilla's cracked mentality that lead her into the second fight with Teresa, but it is HIGHLY debatable whether it was truly her wish at that last moment to cheap-shot Teresa.

She hated Yoma more then anyone, and was so zealous about protecting humans that she blindly attacked Teresa off of the belief that Teresa was a murderer. I honestly think she did want to die at that moment, rather then become a Yoma, but her already weak willpower crumbled to her Yoma half, and everyone present paid the price.


RAWR let the eternal debates continue!!!

/falls unconcious

[Hamstadini]

Flattery will get you everywhere, Fenrir. :heh:

For myself, I'm still stuck on this idea that her body acted without the mind's consent - yoma-integrated bodies have a way of acting on their own, as we saw in the cathedral. And as I posted in... another medium... would it be right to punish her for sins she can't remember?

Oy... here we go with the right and wrong debate again... :uhoh:

[Gooral]

Let the quote wars BEGIN!!!



Teresa was no fool, she knew Priscilla was the real deal.
She knew but lowered her guard like she did when fighting Rosemary. I disagree, at that moment she was a fool.

I loved it more then the Teresa chapter, primarily because it had 3 awesome characters in it, not just one.
When Clare fights Priscilla there will be more than 2 cool characters, that's for sure. No one, nor Riful nor the organization would miss sth big as that.

Yes they controlled a small isolated village with a group of 5 Yoma, including a flyer. I saw no soldiers, and the Mangaka likes portraying humans as quite helpless against the Yoma, when we really wouldn't be.

Yoma are also supposivly solitary hunters normally, it is likely that the introduction of the Claymores is what started them on their hunting packs, so they could have a chance against the Claymores.

Notice even a strong Yoma like the one in Rabona ran away when a group of well armed and armored humans approached.
All of this happened after Claymores were present in the world, before youmas didn't have to fear that much of a bunch of humans. This strong youma didn't have problems with two best man and they won only because Clare was there. Monster knew that with many people it would be injured at least and when fighting in the daylight reinforcement troops would come immediately so running away was a smart thing to do.


Not all the Claymore's sent North were trouble makers, most of them were probably just cannon-fodder to the Organization, and notice how they all followed orders like nice little lambs, until Miria started giving them a sense of purpose, and a chance for survival.
They were soldiers not fanatics. Many of them were too scared to do anything, dropped their swords, piss their pants etc. If they were blinded killing machines they wouldn't feel fear.
Notice alot of powerhouses fall under your "stupid or easily manipulated" category; Alicia, Beth (both of which are products of brainwashing at its finest), Raphaela (some A+ blackmailing here), Priscilla (before she cracked), Irene (before she became afraid of battle), and Teresa (before she met Clare.)

Teresa ?? She was amused when she collected the money, she didn't listen to orders, ironically responded to her superiors etc., she didn't reveal her true self. The only reason she stayed with the organization was because it was the only place she fitted in, she didn't have where to go.

Yes it was Priscilla's cracked mentality that lead her into the second fight with Teresa, but it is HIGHLY debatable whether it was truly her wish at that last moment to cheap-shot Teresa.
I don't think any of us will convince the other that it's otherwise. For me it's obvious that she wanted Teresa dead, be it while she was still human or a youma.
It was clearly stated in the manga.


RAWR let the eternal debates continue!!!

/falls unconcious
Not eternal because I don't see big "openings" to counterattack :heh: and propably it will be my last response to what we started yesterday (8:58 GMT+2). I don't think I'll be able to think of anything, even stupid, that has relevance to our posts :).

[Seska]

Me too, I will try to think of sth tomorrow :D

Argh!... Now i need some cup of fresh coffee beside me, if i go read all the big replys here:)

But, hey. Here is spoiling impossible :)

[Fenrir_valindri]

She knew but lowered her guard like she did when fighting Rosemary. I disagree, at that moment she was a fool.

Rosemary caught Teresa off guard, yes, but that was because of the sudden increase in speed and power, not because Teresa had underestimated her.

Possibly, but I was under the impression (feel free to disagree) that Priscilla's speed had reached the point that Teresa could not even see the strike, letting her guard down or not.

When Clare fights Priscilla there will be more than 2 cool characters, that's for sure. No one, nor Riful nor the organization would miss sth big as that.

Heh provided they are still around, but yes, I am positive there will be more cool characters involved in that fight as well. :p

All of this happened after Claymores were present in the world, before youmas didn't have to fear that much of a bunch of humans. This strong youma didn't have problems with two best man and they won only because Clare was there. Monster knew that with many people it would be injured at least and when fighting in the daylight reinforcement troops would come immediately so running away was a smart thing to do.

Yes, the biggest none AB Yoma in the story so far, and it ran from a bunch of humans, despite its advantage over them, and Clare was down for the count as well. The Yoma did not just fear injury, it feared death.

They were soldiers not fanatics. Many of them were too scared to do anything, dropped their swords, piss their pants etc. If they were blinded killing machines they wouldn't feel fear.

Well if an impossibly powerful killing machine showed up and started offing your leaders without giving them a chance of retaliation, most people would react that way, as you said their not fanatics and I never said they were fanatics, I said they were lambs, and they were lead to the slaughter pretty well.


Teresa ?? She was amused when she collected the money, she didn't listen to orders, ironically responded to her superiors etc., she didn't reveal her true self. The only reason she stayed with the organization was because it was the only place she fitted in, she didn't have where to go.

I have no doubt in my mind that Teresa would have killed for the Organization, and Teresa was more then powerful enough to lead a "rebellion" against the Organization, and if their were more then a few people willing to join her, it would not have a poor chance of succeeding.

The point? She didn't want to, she worked for the Organization, and followed their orders, sarcasm or not, she followed the orders, and remained loyal until she met Clare.

You can make ironic statements and be sarcastic all you want, but if someone says "jump" and you do, then your not any less under their thumb.

I don't think any of us will convince the other that it's otherwise. For me it's obvious that she wanted Teresa dead, be it while she was still human or a youma.
It was clearly stated in the manga.

It was clearly stated that berserk Priscilla wanted Teresa dead, not the begging for death Priscilla.
These are two very different mentalities, one who was not thinking clearly because of anger, and the other utterly terrified of her loss of control and inevitable transformation into a monster.

Mind set changes with circumstance.

So you have your opinion and I have mine. :D

Not eternal because I don't see big "openings" to counterattack :heh: and propably it will be my last response to what we started yesterday (8:58 GMT+2). I don't think I'll be able to think of anything, even stupid, that has relevance to our posts :).

I do, considering alot of your stuff is opinion, not proven fact, but I suppose the same could be said for my stuff as well.

I ment "eternal" because I knew that the arguement cant be conclusivly ended without the Mangaka's intervention, because only the mangaka knows where the story is going.

Bah, stealing all my fun away like that. >.<

Ah well it was fun while it lasted :heh:

[emu777]

Rosemary caught Teresa off guard, yes, but that was because of the sudden increase in speed and power, not because Teresa had underestimated her.

Possibly, but I was under the impression (feel free to disagree) that Priscilla's speed had reached the point that Teresa could not even see the strike, letting her guard down or not.



Heh provided they are still around, but yes, I am positive there will be more cool characters involved in that fight as well. :p



Yes, the biggest none AB Yoma in the story so far, and it ran from a bunch of humans, despite its advantage over them, and Clare was down for the count as well. The Yoma did not just fear injury, it feared death.



Well if an impossibly powerful killing machine showed up and started offing your leaders without giving them a chance of retaliation, most people would react that way, as you said their not fanatics and I never said they were fanatics, I said they were lambs, and they were lead to the slaughter pretty well.




I have no doubt in my mind that Teresa would have killed for the Organization, and Teresa was more then powerful enough to lead a "rebellion" against the Organization, and if their were more then a few people willing to join her, it would not have a poor chance of succeeding.

The point? She didn't want to, she worked for the Organization, and followed their orders, sarcasm or not, she followed the orders, and remained loyal until she met Clare.

You can make ironic statements and be sarcastic all you want, but if someone says "jump" and you do, then your not any less under their thumb.



It was clearly stated that berserk Priscilla wanted Teresa dead, not the begging for death Priscilla.
These are two very different mentalities, one who was not thinking clearly because of anger, and the other utterly terrified of her loss of control and inevitable transformation into a monster.

Mind set changes with circumstance.

So you have your opinion and I have mine. :D



I do, considering alot of your stuff is opinion, not proven fact, but I suppose the same could be said for my stuff as well.

I ment "eternal" because I knew that the arguement cant be conclusivly ended without the Mangaka's intervention, because only the mangaka knows where the story is going.

Bah, stealing all my fun away like that. >.<

Ah well it was fun while it lasted :heh:

:eek:MY GOOD GOD, in any two of you reply war posts there is enough text to constitute one chapter(short to medium) of fanfiction. I hope you are planning to use this creative energy to make fanfiction masterpieces fenrir, theres nothing like misused energy to make me an unhappy panda/emu:D.

In any case I thought this scene was good, it amused me that priscilla could rip out two peoples guts without changing any of her body. I would have like it better if they had shown rigald getting owned by priscilla though, that bad kitty certinly deserved a "time-out":heh:.

[Tempest35]

Priscilla: *sleepy-eye* Easley~...

Easley: Yes Priscilla?

Priscilla: Where's my stuffed kitty teddybear...?

Easley: ... probably hiding :heh:

Priscilla: *blinks* ... *trudges off*
--------------------

Rigald: *on the roof* She's a demon... 0.0 A pure demon...Braiding ribbons into my mane! Unforgiveable!!!

Priscilla: *Awakened form* Hello Kitty. So this is where you were...I was getting tired of looking for you...

Rigald: :eek:

Piscilla: It's time for sleep, kitty. *eyes glow* NOW *grabs him and trudges back to her room despite his digging his claws into the walls and floors, trying to get away*

[Negativedark]

Poor Rigald, he's finally free when she finds Raki, and then he gets pureed.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Lol, I could see Priscilla using Rigaldo as her dolly.

Hilarious. :heh:

[Nesty]

Priscilla: *sleepy-eye* Easley~...

Easley: Yes Priscilla?

Priscilla: Where's my stuffed kitty teddybear...?

Easley: ... probably hiding :heh:

Priscilla: *blinks* ... *trudges off*
--------------------

Rigald: *on the roof* She's a demon... 0.0 A pure demon...Braiding ribbons into my mane! Unforgiveable!!!

Priscilla: *Awakened form* Hello Kitty. So this is where you were...I was getting tired of looking for you...

Rigald: :eek:

Piscilla: It's time for sleep, kitty. *eyes glow* NOW *grabs him and trudges back to her room despite his digging his claws into the walls and floors, trying to get away*

lol awesome! :heh:

[Rehwyn]

Okay, I don't think I've commented on Priscilla's killing of Teresa before, but with the massive quotes above I felt a bit obliged to at least voice my opinion. Note that this is specifically my opinion since there is nothing that conclusively explains the circumstances.

Yes, I believe Priscilla wanted Teresa dead. She did specifically express this several times, even after Teresa spared her life.

Priscilla did kill Teresa, no matter the circumstances. Thus, she had both the intent to kill Teresa and carried out this desire.

However, I do not believe it was her full intent to deceive Teresa by requesting she cut off her head. Notice how the second Priscilla passes her limits, she stops making any attempts to attack Teresa. Priscilla abhorred Yomas and I'm confident the realization that she was irreversibly becoming one was a greater concern for Priscilla than her desire to killing Teresa.

This did create a problem though, in that Priscilla had two conflicting desires. She could let Teresa kill her and spare herself from becoming a yoma, but Teresa would go "unpunished" in Priscilla's mind. Considering Priscilla's already unstable consciousness, as demonstrated by freezing in fear of Teresa, brashly going after Teresa in anger, her incoherent ramblings about Papa, and the loss of control of her yoki, I find it very unlikely that she was lucid enough to concentrate on just one of her desires, much less resist the transformation of her mind to that of a yoma after passing her limits. I mean, during the fighting she demands Teresa give back Papa, even though it was Priscilla herself that killed him. That is clearly not the workings of a coherent mind.

Thus, it is my opinion that even though Priscilla wanted Teresa dead, as Priscilla was turning into a yoma it was not thoughts of killing Teresa that solely occupied her mind. Rather, I believe her mind was in a flux with the desire to avoid becoming a yoma, the desire to killed Teresa, and possibly even grief over her Papa. Her mind was slipping into that of a yoma and I believe it was more of a survival instinct that drove her to attack Teresa at the last moment, though the desire to kill Teresa probably aided in the motivation. This "survival" instinct is present in Priscilla as an AB as well; she only attacked and killed Irena and the others after they attacked her. The same goes with Isley as we've just seen in ES3. It is not unreasonable to believe based on this that survival was a major motivation at the time of her Awakening. Also, consider Priscilla's rediculously fast regeneration, a trait of defensive Claymores; wasn't it stated that defensive types were generally concerned more with personal survival than vengeance?

To summarize, I believe it was both Priscilla's survival instinct and her desire to kill Teresa that caused her to attack at the last moment instead of letting her head get chopped off, but I believe survival was a larger factor. I do not believe Priscilla intentionally set it up so that she could catch Teresa offguard but believe that Priscilla genuinely didn't want to become a yoma and at least to some degree did want Teresa to kill her. However, I believe Priscilla had a moment of weakness and let her desire to survive and her desire to kill Teresa take over.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Okay, I don't think I've commented on Priscilla's killing of Teresa before, but with the massive quotes above I felt a bit obliged to at least voice my opinion. Note that this is specifically my opinion since there is nothing that conclusively explains the circumstances.

Yes, I believe Priscilla wanted Teresa dead. She did specifically express this several times, even after Teresa spared her life.

Priscilla did kill Teresa, no matter the circumstances. Thus, she had both the intent to kill Teresa and carried out this desire.

However, I do not believe it was her full intent to deceive Teresa by requesting she cut off her head. Notice how the second Priscilla passes her limits, she stops making any attempts to attack Teresa. Priscilla abhorred Yomas and I'm confident the realization that she was irreversibly becoming one was a greater concern for Priscilla than her desire to killing Teresa.

This did create a problem though, in that Priscilla had two conflicting desires. She could let Teresa kill her and spare herself from becoming a yoma, but Teresa would go "unpunished" in Priscilla's mind. Considering Priscilla's already unstable consciousness, as demonstrated by freezing in fear of Teresa, brashly going after Teresa in anger, her incoherent ramblings about Papa, and the loss of control of her yoki, I find it very unlikely that she was lucid enough to concentrate on just one of her desires, much less resist the transformation of her mind to that of a yoma after passing her limits. I mean, during the fighting she demands Teresa give back Papa, even though it was Priscilla herself that killed him. That is clearly not the workings of a coherent mind.

Thus, it is my opinion that even though Priscilla wanted Teresa dead, as Priscilla was turning into a yoma it was not thoughts of killing Teresa that solely occupied her mind. Rather, I believe her mind was in a flux with the desire to avoid becoming a yoma, the desire to killed Teresa, and possibly even grief over her Papa. Her mind was slipping into that of a yoma and I believe it was more of a survival instinct that drove her to attack Teresa at the last moment, though the desire to kill Teresa probably aided in the motivation. This "survival" instinct is present in Priscilla as an AB as well; she only attacked and killed Irena and the others after they attacked her. The same goes with Isley as we've just seen in ES3. It is not unreasonable to believe based on this that survival was a major motivation at the time of her Awakening. Also, consider Priscilla's rediculously fast regeneration, a trait of defensive Claymores; wasn't it stated that defensive types were generally concerned more with personal survival than vengeance?

To summarize, I believe it was both Priscilla's survival instinct and her desire to kill Teresa that caused her to attack at the last moment instead of letting her head get chopped off, but I believe survival was a larger factor. I do not believe Priscilla intentionally set it up so that she could catch Teresa offguard but believe that Priscilla genuinely didn't want to become a yoma and at least to some degree did want Teresa to kill her. However, I believe Priscilla had a moment of weakness and let her desire to survive and her desire to kill Teresa take over.

I am suprised, I agree with everything you just said :heh:

Very well layed out, I dont think I have anything else to add but this, well done :D

[DazarGaidin]

I think that Priscilla knew what she was doing when she loped her head off, it was a calculated move not some sort of insane monstrous reaction to the final swing of teresa sword. I think she had it in her head (ill admit she wasn't completely straight in the head) that teresa killed her family or whatever and wanted nothing but her death. Even if it meant awakening...so she found a trick to do it. Love the irony after her refusal to sneak behind her back.

[Taylor_Maclaurin]

It seems that people divide into two groups: those who think that when someone wants to kill you he won't change his mind in 5 minutes no matter the circumstances and those who think that it is possible under certain factors. Well, I can understand uncertainty when someone is referring to Priscilla's behaviour, but the fact is she wanted Teresa dead not only in her Youma form but also as a Claymore.

Her mind was slipping into that of a yoma and I believe it was more of a survival instinct that drove her to attack Teresa at the last moment, though the desire to kill Teresa probably aided in the motivation. This "survival" instinct is present in Priscilla as an AB as well
I can't agree it was survival instinct, Priscilla attacked Teresa immediately she was in her range, Teresa haven't even swing her sword towards her. You can't say about survival instinct even in Teresa's case when she waited to the last moment when confronting her executioners, in Priscilla's case you're searching for excuse to not call her a cheater.
Her death was super stupid, someone who trained for years, fought countless battles and killed infinite number of enemies became in few days a sucker. Yeah, right.
Teresa's death was inevitable, she was just too powerful to be left alive. Without this incident there wouldn't be great story so Yagi-sensei turned console on, wrote "Teresa goddes mode off" and she was killed.
As I see it our "camp" leads :P.

[Fenrir_valindri]

It seems that people divide into two groups: those who think that when someone wants to kill you he won't change his mind in 5 minutes no matter the circumstances and those who think that it is possible under certain factors. Well, I can understand uncertainty when someone is referring to Priscilla's behaviour, but the fact is she wanted Teresa dead not only in her Youma form but also as a Claymore.

I dont disagree.

I can't agree it was survival instinct, Priscilla attacked Teresa immediately she was in her range, Teresa haven't even swing her sword towards her. You can't say about survival instinct even in Teresa's case when she waited to the last moment when confronting her executioners, in Priscilla's case you're searching for excuse to not call her a cheater.

I disagree, Priscilla's sword was very close to her, although not instinctual, it was not like Priscilla to perform a cold, calculated deception, she always attacked in a straight-foward manner, for her personality to so drastically change a simple explanation is already apparant, her Yoma half took over, and killed Teresa.

I wont deny Priscilla wanted her dead, but I do disagree that she would prioratize killing Teresa over retaining her humanity.

Her death was super stupid, someone who trained for years, fought countless battles and killed infinite number of enemies became in few days a sucker. Yeah, right.

I believe that it was a simple matter of speed at that point.
Teresa's god-mode may have been turned off, as you say, but it is undeniable that the speed at which Priscilla attacked must have been incrediable, because no one, not even Teresa, saw it.

Teresa could not even see Priscilla's swing, in the moment before Priscilla went over her limit Teresa had lost complete sight of her and had to be warned by Irene in order to react in time.

So carelessness was part of the equation, but it was not the only thing in the equation.

As I see it our "camp" leads :P.

You can state your opinion as much as you like, but it does not mean it's true ;)

[Gooral]

Ok, now we have proofs. Check this out http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005013660465566761
Teresa was the strongest Claymore ever.

I disagree, Priscilla's sword was very close to her, although not instinctual, it was not like Priscilla to perform a cold, calculated deception, she always attacked in a straight-foward manner, for her personality to so drastically change a simple explanation is already apparant, her Yoma half took over, and killed Teresa.
She attacked in a straight forward manner because she was sure she would win anyway. Once it failed she took any means necessary to accomplish her mission. She suddenly attacked Teresa even before going past her limit, just after saying "you killed my papa".

[Rehwyn]

Ok, now we have proofs. Check this out http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005013660465566761
Teresa was the strongest Claymore ever.

I thought this was pretty well accepted already. :heh:

Notice how Irena, Noel, and Sophia have "A+" ratings in their respectively strong stats while Teresa only has "A" in them. So I guess it was correct to say that they each exceeded Teresa in their individual stats.

By the way, there's already a discussion of the stat book in the Japanese Manga thread, I believe.

Here's a linky: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1129109&postcount=3495

[Anh_Minh]

I'm not so sure the stats are accurate. Theresa's probably represent what she wanted the other Claymores to think. (That, or the author changed his mind between "Marked For Death" and "Extra Scene 1").

[Rehwyn]

I'm not so sure the stats are accurate. Theresa's probably represent what she wanted the other Claymores to think. (That, or the author changed his mind between "Marked For Death" and "Extra Scene 1").

True, the book is supposedly a catalog-type thing published by the Organization, in this case showing "Expired Products," or something to that degree. So it most likely would only be able to show how the Org perceives the individual Claymores instead of an omniscient view.

[Fenrir_valindri]

True, the book is supposedly a catalog-type thing published by the Organization, in this case showing "Expired Products," or something to that degree. So it most likely would only be able to show how the Org perceives the individual Claymores instead of an omniscient view.

The AB chart kinda throws all that into a loop though, as does their view of Helen/Miria/Deneve.

and by the way

She attacked in a straight forward manner because she was sure she would win anyway. Once it failed she took any means necessary to accomplish her mission. She suddenly attacked Teresa even before going past her limit, just after saying "you killed my papa".

Which still does not explain the sudden change in mind set, just before going over her limit, she was far faster then Teresa, her suddenly attacking Teresa does not change that it was still a non-deceptive attack, everything up until that last attack made sense with Priscilla's "normal" mind set, the last one does not fit the puzzle unless it was no longer "normal" Priscilla's mentality.

We all know that Priscilla was not faking her fear of turning into an AB, so I stand by what I said.

[Gooral]

Teresa was the strongest Claymore ever.
I thought this was pretty well accepted already. :heh:

Not by everyone (/me *waves at Fenrir_valindri), some think that Priscilla just before awakening was stronger.


Which still does not explain the sudden change in mind set, just before going over her limit, she was far faster then Teresa, her suddenly attacking Teresa does not change that it was still a non-deceptive attack, everything up until that last attack made sense with Priscilla's "normal" mind set, the last one does not fit the puzzle unless it was no longer "normal" Priscilla's mentality.

We all know that Priscilla was not faking her fear of turning into an AB, so I stand by what I said.
Far faster ? Teresa easily dealt with Priscilla at that level of power and it wasn't because of her sensing youki but because she was faster, more agile and stronger.
You think it's impossible to hit the fastest boxer ? Sudden attack performed by someone who has enough reach isn't easy to avoid You know. Especially if he's drunk.

[redmeat]

What?! You guys aren't making sense. You mean the stats are from the records of the organization, implying that they've managed to cross the fine line between fantasy and reality, and submitted the stats of their claymores to a Japanese publisher? :eyespin:

[Gooral]

It would be strange if author himself didn't approve that.

[Tempest35]

Notice that we don't have any real 'personal' data on them yet...:naughty: These records are 'incomplete'.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Not by everyone (/me *waves at Fenrir_valindri), some think that Priscilla just before awakening was stronger.

/wave, power wise only, and only in the last moment.


Far faster ? Teresa easily dealt with Priscilla at that level of power and it wasn't because of her sensing youki but because she was faster, more agile and stronger.

Except in the last strike, Teresa could not even see her, and Irene warned her where the attack was coming from. Teresa kicked Priscilla around because she was simply a more experienced, skilled, and calm fighter.

and I am not saying Priscilla was completely a tier above Teresa, but I believe she was just barely above her.

You think it's impossible to hit the fastest boxer ? Sudden attack performed by someone who has enough reach isn't easy to avoid You know. Especially if he's drunk.

Bad example, as avoiding a drunk persons swing is amazingly easy, only adding to Teresa's natural advantage in skill, a drunk guy who is bigger and stronger, is still a drunk guy. A trained professional boxer would own a large drunk guy, any day of the week.

[Gooral]

Bad example, as avoiding a drunk persons swing is amazingly easy, only adding to Teresa's natural advantage in skill, a drunk guy who is bigger and stronger, is still a drunk guy. A trained professional boxer would own a large drunk guy, any day of the week.
I had in mind that "especially when boxer is drunk" not the hitter. Teresa was completely different person when she walked towards Priscilla, like she forgot that a second ago Priscilla wanted her dead . She acted like a sucker, stupidly as if she was drunk (in a way she was, drunk by the feelings to Clare).

[DazarGaidin]

I think people underestimated that point, Teresa was having some feelings she wasn't used too, compassion for Priscilla via association with clare. Note the difference in her attitude compared to earlier when she was going to do priscilla in, which at that time such a move (even if priscilla was all powered up) wouldnt have succeeded imo.

I am not so sure she was a sucker for falling for the cheap trick, she was just being compassionate for a young girl who was about to become something terrible that the girl herself hated.

Teresa wasn't expecting the attack, and an surprise attack can often take out a stronger foe (i am in the teresa was stronger camp..come on she was schooling her with only her eyes changing...priscilla power didn't suddenly jump higher than it just was a sec ago without awakening...which she clearly didn't do until after the fatal strike..and you'll notice that these powerups/awakening take time and special effects lol).

[Rhyel]

Agree with you DazarGaidin,

But I think if Teresa in your top (pre Clare). No have chances against Priscilla of Extra 3.

Maybe one Teresa awakened? We will never know. :(

Or maybe Clare give us a half answer, because Clare is a Half-Teresa... LOL

[Fenrir_valindri]

I think people underestimated that point, Teresa was having some feelings she wasn't used too, compassion for Priscilla via association with clare. Note the difference in her attitude compared to earlier when she was going to do priscilla in, which at that time such a move (even if priscilla was all powered up) wouldnt have succeeded imo.

I am not so sure she was a sucker for falling for the cheap trick, she was just being compassionate for a young girl who was about to become something terrible that the girl herself hated.

Teresa wasn't expecting the attack, and an surprise attack can often take out a stronger foe (i am in the teresa was stronger camp..come on she was schooling her with only her eyes changing...priscilla power didn't suddenly jump higher than it just was a sec ago without awakening...which she clearly didn't do until after the fatal strike..and you'll notice that these powerups/awakening take time and special effects lol).


I think people are OVERestimating that point, a compassionate fighter is still a fighter, if she could have stopped the attack at that distance, she would have, or at least been able to react after losing her hands, but she could not even do that.

She did not even register her hands were cut off before she died, that was the speed that all that happened in.

and note, a second before awakening Teresa was already losing sight of Priscilla's speed, and this was before Teresa went all "soft" as you guys put it.

[Tempest35]

Seems that the only thing that can eclipse a Priscilla discussion is a Teresa discussion. :heh:

Seems that some have forgotten that Teresa has admitted it outloud that the one thing that she'd hate to do is to kill a fellow Claymore. Rosemary didn't count since she awakened of her own accord just to battle against Teresa and Teresa responded in like manner. Rosemary knew better - Priscilla, at the time, didn't. Teresa did not want to be Black Carded by anyone - a possible motivation for her personality and aloofness - to kill a young woman who had similar circumstances as she did, to have become a Claymore and to lose themselves to the youma within - could that be too much for even Teresa to handle?

Yes, she did think about killing her and her 'old self' would have beheaded Priscilla at the given opprotunity. Irene knew that and at some level, so did Noel and Sophia.

When Priscilla began unleashing more than 60%, Teresa was fighting again for a different reason. She was not really fighting Priscilla to kill her, she was fighting to subdue without harming her too much and fighting like that is always hard in spite of the handicaps that had already manifested. She did not want Priscilla to become a youma because she was trying to defeat her - that would have been a replay of Rosemary all over again except Priscilla was just a kid.

What is so different about what Priscilla did to Teresa that Teresa didn't do to the four Claymores that would have taken her head to begin with? They are both 'guilty' of wanting to survive.

[edf91]

I think the main difference between the fight of Teresa vs Rosemary and Teresa vs Priscilla is that Teresa feel that Rosemary "deserve" to die - she awaken because she was jealous of losing the number 1 ranking to Teresa. For Priscilla, Teresa probably feel sorry for, since she only want to kill Teresa because the organziation told her so, and that she can probably relate to Priscilla's life, given it's quite similiar to Clare (lost the family to Yoma). When fighting against someone you feel sorry for, you tend to not fight at 100%, and in Teresa's case, this probably cause her to not use more power - I think she only went to about 10% or so youki release during the fight.

[Claymore_Obsessed]

Easley is such a fine mind. Haman-sama and Mineva Zabi come to mind... :)

Pris is strong, but she isn't aware of her power... she's just aware of her empty belly ^^
Maybe he could have killed Priscilla, maybe not, but why risking to die in all-out attack, when you can manipulate her as a pawn?

I hope for Easely that she's never gonna realize her power. :heh:
And above everything else, I really hope that someone (Claire? Riful?) somehow manages to kill her :heh:

[DazarGaidin]

I think people are OVERestimating that point, a compassionate fighter is still a fighter, if she could have stopped the attack at that distance, she would have, or at least been able to react after losing her hands, but she could not even do that.

She did not even register her hands were cut off before she died, that was the speed that all that happened in.

and note, a second before awakening Teresa was already losing sight of Priscilla's speed, and this was before Teresa went all "soft" as you guys put it.

Hmm i guess it is a divergent opinion, I'm still going to go with the idea that the only way Priscilla coulda pulled that off is through guile, striking at teresa when her guard was down and she was most vulnerable. Of course the actual strike was fast, but not faster than any other dozen strikes teresa parried in their fight to that point. The 'a fighter is a still a fighter' doesn't have much bearing, a fighter is still susceptible to another fighter feinting or another fighter taking advantage of a mistake or lack of judgement.

[Rhyel]

Other question is: (sorry if already make)

Priscilla evolved her abilities after of awake, until the meeting with Easley? Or after the meeting?

[Claymore_Obsessed]

Hmm i guess it is a divergent opinion, I'm still going to go with the idea that the only way Priscilla coulda pulled that off is through guile, striking at teresa when her guard was down and she was most vulnerable. Of course the actual strike was fast, but not faster than any other dozen strikes teresa parried in their fight to that point. The 'a fighter is a still a fighter' doesn't have much bearing, a fighter is still susceptible to another fighter feinting or another fighter taking advantage of a mistake or lack of judgement.

I agree with you.

Priscilla had the potential to surpass Teresa, but it was in the long run (months, I'd say), not in that same day...
Imho Teresa died because she let her guard down, battles aren't always won by the strongest, and are often decided by mistakes...

[Rehwyn]

I agree with you.

Priscilla had the potential to surpass Teresa, but it was in the long run (months, I'd say), not in that same day...
Imho Teresa died because she let her guard down, battles aren't always won by the strongest, and are often decided by mistakes...

I'm of the same mentality.

Teresa completely relaxes her yoki as she prepares to behead Priscilla (as demonstrated by her eyes reverting to normal). Mentally, she is probably less focused on preparing to dodge or block attacks because she is not expecting them. I don't know if any of you have ever done a form of martial arts, but from my experiences I can personally tell you there's a big difference in my reaction times when I'm focused and preparing to spar compared to when I'm just walking down the street. If Teresa was not expecting an attack, she could easily be hit by an attack she otherwise would be able to avoid.

This is supported by Irena's statements to Clare along the lines of "Teresa was no longer fit for battle because she had become soft through her contact with you." Ilena believes Teresa died because she was caught by surprise in a moment of compassion.

[Gooral]

Priscilla had the potential to surpass Teresa, but it was in the long run (months, I'd say), not in that same day...
Imho Teresa died because she let her guard down, battles aren't always won by the strongest, and are often decided by mistakes...
We can't tell if Priscilla had more power because we didn't see Teresa at full power. I think that Teresa didn't want to reveal her true form before other Claymores because she didn't want to kill them (potential witnesses) and even more before Clare. If the organization knew that Teresa is the biggest monster of all then they would definitely hunt Teresa with even more motivation, because she would be a threat to them. Small percentage of her strength was sufficient to kill Priscilla.
IMO Teresa at 50% was stronger one even than awakened Priscilla (it's a bit of a stretch I know, but it's the same as saying that Priscilla's potential was greater) we will know after Claire defeats Priscilla (or not).
After meeting Clare she got soft (remember Luc Besson's Leon ? He was the best until he got in touch with Mathilda). Claymores are assassins and obviously Teresa lost her touch, lowered her guard and was easily killed by someone as strong as Priscilla but I think that in this kind of situtation even Irene could pull this off.
Teresa said sth like this: "I might be able to defeat her now, but next time, who knows" - true, but I think she was referring to her 0% youki release state. She didn't want to show even 10% of her strength to others, because that would show what a monster she really is. What's more, she might have been afraid that to defeat awakened Priscilla she would have to go to her limit (80%) and she might awaken. Teresa had a unique ability to read youki and thus she knew quite well the extent of Priscilla's power. If Priscilla was such a great threat then definitely Teresa would kill her when she had a chance - before Priscilla awakened - because she knew that the organization wouldn't stop until Teresa's dead or until there wouldn't be a Claymore who could take her down. Since the day she met Claire she had a real reason to live, so I don't think she would just throw it away. In that case all of her previous effort would come to waste (like executing savage bandits thus drawing blood hunt on her).
Teresa's power was great, she could easily stand against Irene's speed (Claire didn't even stand a chance to weaker Ophelia's attack), so reading youki wasn't her only asset (what's the meaning of knowing the attack if you can't deflect it, so Fenrir_valindri, I think You're wrong. Also I believe that Claire will kill Priscilla and that will prove how strong Teresa was (Claire won't have Teresa's true power although she has Irene's arm, etc.).
It was the first time when someone appeared with power not infinitely weaker than hers, so she said that. She just saw a worthy opponent at last, but that doesn't mean that Priscilla had more power. In fact I think that she would never be able to kill Teresa without using her (Teresa's) current soft-hearted mind.
Teresa was adjusting her strength to her opponents level so yeah, Irene could've thought that she was quicker. The fact is that Teresa's speed must had been better, not only because she was able to deflect Irene's attacks one after another but also because she fought with 4 warriors at once. Author killed Teresa in such stupid way to shock readers, burn Teresa in people's minds and for story development. Even after meeting Clare Teresa wouldn't be such an idiot to be killed by a sudden strike, Priscilla didn't cheat I agree, author did.

Seems that the only thing that can eclipse a Priscilla discussion is a Teresa discussion. :heh:

True, but that's just great topic to discuss and what can we write about ES3 which wasn't written yet ? I'm treating this topic as continuation of Japanese Manga thread, it's easier to find information when you don't have 200 pages of posts :D.

[khryoleoz]

I thought some of us already dealt with how the Org's internal assessments are themselves annecdotes and not reliable in an absolute sense. With ES1, we find out that Teresa had been hiding from the Org her own true potential, therefore casting doubt upon their judgement of Priscilla's potential compared to Teresa's. Though Teresa expressed her own doubts, she nonetheless dealt with the twirp more than effectively at their disparate exertions of power.

[Fenrir_valindri]

We can't tell if Priscilla had more power because we didn't see Teresa at full power. I think that Teresa didn't want to reveal her true form before other Claymores because she didn't want to kill them (potential witnesses) and even more before Clare. If the organization knew that Teresa is the biggest monster of all then they would definitely hunt Teresa with even more motivation, because she would be a threat to them. Small percentage of her strength was sufficient to kill Priscilla.

I doubt it, with the Organization's mentality of "let ABs roam" they would have stayed far from Teresa if they realized her power.
They took a gamble and lost.

Teresa could have killed Priscilla, but the reason Irene believed that Teresa was no longer fit for battle was because Teresa WAS hesitating to finish Priscilla, despite the threat Teresa knew she represented.

IMO Teresa at 50% was stronger one even than awakened Priscilla (it's a bit of a stretch I know, but it's the same as saying that Priscilla's potential was greater) we will know after Claire defeats Priscilla (or not).

Pretty big assumption, considering that Priscilla was no where near finished reaching her potential, and Teresa herself believed Priscilla's potential to be frightening.

After meeting Clare she got soft (remember Luc Besson's Leon ? He was the best until he got in touch with Mathilda). Claymores are assassins and obviously Teresa lost her touch, lowered her guard and was easily killed by someone as strong as Priscilla but I think that in this kind of situtation even Irene could pull this off.

She lowered her guard, yes, but she also had her sword in her hand, ready to kill Priscilla.
Even if Teresa was careless, Priscilla's own speed still played a large part in her death.

Teresa said sth like this: "I might be able to defeat her now, but next time, who knows" - true, but I think she was referring to her 0% youki release state. She didn't want to show even 10% of her strength to others, because that would show what a monster she really is.

I highly doubt she would make such a statement lightly, she knew her opponent's strength well, and such a statement is merely a testament to Priscilla's own potential strength.

What's more, she might have been afraid that to defeat awakened Priscilla she would have to go to her limit (80%) and she might awaken. Teresa had a unique ability to read youki and thus she knew quite well the extent of Priscilla's power. If Priscilla was such a great threat then definitely Teresa would kill her when she had a chance - before Priscilla awakened - because she knew that the organization wouldn't stop until Teresa's dead or until there wouldn't be a Claymore who could take her down.

Alot of people assume Teresa would have killed Priscilla if she thought she was a threat, but you forget your own excuse, she had become soft, she felt empathy toward Priscilla and thus spared her life.
Irene later stated it was because Teresa had grown "soft", this is the moment Teresa could have easily finished Priscilla, but decided not to, not because she considered her a non-issue, but because she did not want to kill her.

Do not forget, Teresa WAS going to kill Priscilla before she awakened, but was killed before she could do so.


Since the day she met Claire she had a real reason to live, so I don't think she would just throw it away. In that case all of her previous effort would come to waste (like executing savage bandits thus drawing blood hunt on her).

She did not intend to throw it away, she made it clear that she would defeat them no matter how many times they came.
Was this a statement of cold-calculated logic? No! It was something Teresa believed because she felt she could accomplish anything to protect Clare, and she was wrong.


Teresa's power was great, she could easily stand against Irene's speed (Claire didn't even stand a chance to weaker Ophelia's attack), so reading youki wasn't her only asset (what's the meaning of knowing the attack if you can't deflect it, so Fenrir_valindri, I think You're wrong. Also I believe that Claire will kill Priscilla and that will prove how strong Teresa was (Claire won't have Teresa's true power although she has Irene's arm, etc.).

Of course Clare could not keep up with Ophelia's attack, she far weaker back then, and it was a technique that countered her specialty.

As for Teresa, she could easily read Irene's moves, so no surprise their either.
Irene's speed with the sword may have been better, but that doesn't mean anything when the difference is so small AND Teresa could see them ahead of time.

It is always a possibility that Clare could possibly kill Priscilla, but we will have to wait and see see now wont we?

It was the first time when someone appeared with power not infinitely weaker than hers, so she said that. She just saw a worthy opponent at last, but that doesn't mean that Priscilla had more power. In fact I think that she would never be able to kill Teresa without using her (Teresa's) current soft-hearted mind.
Teresa was adjusting her strength to her opponents level so yeah, Irene could've thought that she was quicker. The fact is that Teresa's speed must had been better, not only because she was able to deflect Irene's attacks one after another but also because she fought with 4 warriors at once. Author killed Teresa in such stupid way to shock readers, burn Teresa in people's minds and for story development. Even after meeting Clare Teresa wouldn't be such an idiot to be killed by a sudden strike, Priscilla didn't cheat I agree, author did.

Teresa made it clear that she was scared of Priscilla's potential, which meant she understood better then anyone what Priscilla could become. Teresa had an immense advantage because the only person who had the potential to match her some day was a complete and utter noob at the time.

Everyone else present was a fly before Teresa's overall power and ability, and I do not think anyone could deny that.

Let us not forget Teresa got her own "get out of jail free card" when Priscilla did not stab her when she first landed outside, the fight could have ended right their, before it started.

Priscilla's speed at the end of the fight was also becoming a problem for Teresa, so it was not far-fetched for an unexpected attack to kill her, especially at that speed.

I don't see how the author could cheat, he wrote the story, and he simply proved that Teresa, despite her immense power, experience, and reason to live, was still mortal, tragically so.

True, but that's just great topic to discuss and what can we write about ES3 which wasn't written yet ? I'm treating this topic as continuation of Japanese Manga thread, it's easier to find information when you don't have 200 pages of posts :D.

I hear you there. :heh:

[DazarGaidin]

I don't think anyone can logically deny that teresa was stronger, and died only because she let her guard down/priscilla used guile. Whether she could own an awakened priscilla without awakening herself is never gonna be 100% solved, we can just make assumptions.

Because teresa believed priscilla had the potential to eventually surpass her (a time frame is never given, she could mean years down the road...she certainly didn't mean a few minutes from town when she said 'next we meet who knows?'). Since they say priscilla potential was realized once she awakened, you can assume that she would exceed teresa currently, because teresa's own words/thoughts (the argument about her concealment of power from the org/reader/whatever is negated by her own thoughts).

But then, does teresa even know what would happen if she goes all out (how often does this happen?)...she is certainly smarter and more skillful than priscilla (im sure awakening didn't increase priscilla's IQ that much and grant her insta-combat knowledge). If teresa is on par with her, than in much the same way priscilla defeated her maybe she coulda defeated a somewhat stronger priscilla thru skill/intellect.

Its all supposition.

[chibamonster]

Haha, gone from the forums a few days and look what I missed! All this talk about Teresa and Priscilla! I love me my Teresa. There have been a lot of really good points brought up (that's why I like this forum) and a lot of things I wouldn't have thought about by myself.

The Author is really good at changing and developing characters. I think it was intentional to not explain exactly what happened when Teresa died. That way when we do find out more about Priscilla(which I think we will in the future) it will be an interesting twist either way. Was Teresa's death Priscilla's final act with her human heart or the first act of her awakened mind?

With the extra chapters we certainly have some more development; Teresa was really a beast (yay Teresa) and Priscilla really did get messed up in the head. Sure we figured both things already, but now we know.

The thing that interests me though is Clare. What is she going to do? Will she go berserk fighting Priscilla the same way Priscilla did fighting Teresa? Or will she lose her edge in battle when she finds Raki again? Fortunately, she will probably find Priscilla and Raki pretty close together. It's winding up to be so interesting! What if Clare kills Priscilla with a cheap shot?

...and Teresa is the most powerful claymore ... in my heart :nod:

[Seska]

Teresa and Pricillia are both "Beast".

Teresa has meet some person, how showing her the Path of Love, and she looks more Adult then Prissy. She knows her Limits.

Pricillia don't have this luck.... "Use your full power!!!" She is a child without knowing her limits, so no one tells her where to stop.

If you see them both in this light, so all of them are not really "Bad People"...

(Some special Story script skills of Nippon Animes and Jap. RPGs, and i love it.Example the Bad Guy from FF10. he is doing it only to protect her mothers Spirit... gamers will know what i am talking about.)

[ArmisaelXVIII]

Here are my comments


ES1

I liked it *-* It just shows more of how great Teresa was (yes, "was"...T_T). I think discussing whether Rosemary was stronger or weaker than <insert AB here> is something pointless. I agree that the numbers doesn't represent absolute power, the number 3 of a certain class could be number 2 or number 5 in other times. But I think that Rosemary was strong enough to become another Abyssal Being. Many people would probably agree with me saying that Teresa and Priscilla were in another level. An Awakened Teresa would also be stronger than the other abyssals.

I also think that when in the manga is said that Priscilla has more potential that Teresa it was not a character saying what he thinks (without knowing the 'truth') but it was the author hinting that in fact it was like that.

ES2

Not much to say. I love Ophelia. So evil ^^

ES3

Priscilla is definitely stronger than Isley. But who knows what would have happened if Isley attempted to kill Priscilla more seriously and fearlessly. At least Priscilla seemed too vulnerable and even more after returning to her human form (unharmed though). Probably in the future we'll know what was thinking Isley... he felt fear... or a just someone to take advantage of...

[hierophant]

Probably in the future we'll know what was thinking Isley... he felt fear... or a just someone to take advantage of...


I think ES3 already show what Isley think. He just found someone powerfully worthy to serve.

[hierophant]

about Priscila X Teresa, it is clear that the awakened Priscila surpassed Teresa's speed, causing her death. Teresa was still more powerful, meaning an awakened Teresa would surpass Priscila.

Although Teresa's death was shocking, I don't think it was because of Priscila or the author's cheating. It is very straight actually... It just happened because of Teresa continuous hesitations, leaving Priscila's determination and inexperience put her on awakened state, thus surpassing the non-awakened Teresa's speed.

And about Priscila's cheating being inconsistent with Priscila denying to attack Teresa on the back or banding together against her, i think it is very understandable. Priscila was only following Irene's orders (doing wathever it takes to defeat Teresa), plus was under heavy influence of her inner yoma.

[DazarGaidin]

it is clear that the awakened Priscila surpassed Teresa's speed, causing her death.

She didn't awaken until after teresa was dead. Her speed (while impressive) wasn't beyond teresa's ability to handle, Teresa was just caught off guard at a critical moment.

[ArmisaelXVIII]

I wouldn't call that murder for two reasons:
a) Jean was already mortally wounded, she had I don't know, couple hours left or less. You can't kill a dead man
b) Clare warned her that if she comes any closer she will cut her in half.
That's the same situation when someone is setting mine field, tells someone not to go there and he goes there anyway. Would you call him murderer?



Murderer has implicit a sense of premeditation, Clare didn't intend to kill jean. Even though I understand what you want to say I've to disagree in your example. I would call that a murder...


A really bad example, there're a lot of mine fields out there...

[khryoleoz]

about Priscila X Teresa, it is clear that the awakened Priscila surpassed Teresa's speed, causing her death. Teresa was still more powerful, meaning an awakened Teresa would surpass Priscila.

Although Teresa's death was shocking, I don't think it was because of Priscila or the author's cheating. It is very straight actually... It just happened because of Teresa continuous hesitations, leaving Priscila's determination and inexperience put her on awakened state, thus surpassing the non-awakened Teresa's speed.

And about Priscila's cheating being inconsistent with Priscila denying to attack Teresa on the back or banding together against her, i think it is very understandable. Priscila was only following Irene's orders (doing wathever it takes to defeat Teresa), plus was under heavy influence of her inner yoma.

How is this clear? Priscilla was short of awakening when she off'ed Teresa, and she did so with that cheap shot. They weren't even doing anything that would be a contest of speed. So with Teresa just standing there, anyone running towards her would have been faster as would be the difference in velocities between a moving and a static object.

Priscilla was being chivalrous when she thought she had the upper hand. When she realized the truth, chivalry was out the window. Short of Priscilla pissing herself silly, Teresa really put the fear of God in her. So what is consistent is that Priscilla's character was pretty shallow and yes, immature, though someone would passionately deny her that immaturity, as none of her experiences were her fault, even though her responses to those experiences were of her own libertarian choosing.

[Pell14]

Well . . I didnt really expect Isley to react in this way. Kind of dissapointing to me

[FateAnomaly]

Actually what i find strange is that Teresa did not manage to dodge the second attack. The first attack could be she was caught unaware but given Teresa combat ability she should have the presence of mind to dodge the second one. Their should be enough time to do so since the second attack came after her hands landed which means the attack is not immediate.

My wild guess would be that there is someone else involve in this.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Actually what i find strange is that Teresa did not manage to dodge the second attack. The first attack could be she was caught unaware but given Teresa combat ability she should have the presence of mind to dodge the second one. Their should be enough time to do so since the second attack came after her hands landed which means the attack is not immediate.

My wild guess would be that there is someone else involve in this.

That is one of the reasons I believe that Priscilla's speed at this point was simply beyond Teresa's ability to comprehend. The first attack could be excused by being caught off guard, but the second attack she did not even try to dodge.

I am also quite glad that Isley's motivations are quite clear at the end of the chapter, by a simple smile.

I wonder if his mentality has changed over time like Riful theorizes. It would make sense if we look at the risk Isley took fighting Lucalea

[cors8]

Well Teresa could've just been too shocked by the first attack to dodge the 2nd one.

Have to remember that as far as we know, getting limbs chopped off is new to her since she's so powerful.

[Gooral]

Actually what i find strange is that Teresa did not manage to dodge the second attack. The first attack could be she was caught unaware but given Teresa combat ability she should have the presence of mind to dodge the second one. Their should be enough time to do so since the second attack came after her hands landed which means the attack is not immediate.
I noticed it too but it wasn't that strange to me. When Priscilla managed to caught her off guard then finishing her off wouldn't be a problem especially when Teresa was defendless, she didn't have her sword do deflect attacks and as we've seen it was her main way of defence, not dodging but deflecting strikes. Also she faced her straight on so stepping back quicker than Priscilla or turning around and escaping wasn't sth that could be done with warrior of Priscilla's level. As I wrote before in that situtation even Irene could kill Teresa.
That is one of the reasons I believe that Priscilla's speed at this point was simply beyond Teresa's ability to comprehend.
For me it's one of the reasons why I think that author just wanted to shock the audience because at that time he negated her power which was shown a while back. Teresa's sacrifice was necessary to draw attention and for story development it also made her character to legendary status.
I'm defending my opinion that Teresa was the strongest and stronger than Priscilla when she chopped her head because :
a) We didn't see her at full power and she easily dealt with Prissy at 10% of her youki
b) Priscilla didn't overwhelm her, in fact it was the other way round, she was dominated by Teresa. If it would have been clear that Priscilla was stronger I would shut up a long time ago, but the way author got rid of her pissed me off and shocked at the same time. Teresa's arc was the main reason why I'm so dedicated to Claymore.

I also think that when in the manga is said that Priscilla has more potential that Teresa it was not a character saying what he thinks (without knowing the 'truth') but it was the author hinting that in fact it was like that.
Show me where in the manga sth like this is stated, please.


Murderer has implicit a sense of premeditation, Clare didn't intend to kill jean. Even though I understand what you want to say I've to disagree in your example. I would call that a murder...


A really bad example, there're a lot of mine fields out there...

Murder can be premeditated or under strong emotions and none of these fit to Clare. There is however word in english that perfectly describes Clare's actions (in my native language it's called "nieumyślne spowodowanie śmierci") and that is manslaughter.

[cors8]

Manslaughter would definitely fit, especially one of the lower degrees, for Clare. One can argue that Jean committed suicide, since she was dying slowly anyway, and Clare was just assisting though.

[Defiled one]

We could say that Clare performed euthanasia to jean. Legal in some countries and illegal in others.
Moral is relative with the people´s point of view.

[Fenrir_valindri]

I noticed it too but it wasn't that strange to me. When Priscilla managed to caught her off guard then finishing her off wouldn't be a problem especially when Teresa was defendless, she didn't have her sword do deflect attacks and as we've seen it was her main way of defence, not dodging but deflecting strikes. Also she faced her straight on so stepping back quicker than Priscilla or turning around and escaping wasn't sth that could be done with warrior of Priscilla's level. As I wrote before in that situtation even Irene could kill Teresa.

So Teresa was so shocked she could not even react to the pain of getting both her hands chopped off? and was completely baffled as to why she was not holding her sword any more? Even someone as powerful as Teresa has been caught off-guard before (Extra chapter 1 for example) but she at least tried to recover in those situations, but in this case she did not even react other then

"?!"

For me it's one of the reasons why I think that author just wanted to shock the audience because at that time he negated her power which was shown a while back. Teresa's sacrifice was necessary to draw attention and for story development it also made her character to legendary status.
I'm defending my opinion that Teresa was the strongest and stronger than Priscilla when she chopped her head because :
a) We didn't see her at full power and she easily dealt with Prissy at 10% of her youki
b) Priscilla didn't overwhelm her, in fact it was the other way round, she was dominated by Teresa. If it would have been clear that Priscilla was stronger I would shut up a long time ago, but the way author got rid of her pissed me off and shocked at the same time. Teresa's arc was the main reason why I'm so dedicated to Claymore.

Teresa was also almost killed by Priscilla right before Priscilla lost control. If it was not for Irene's warning, Teresa would not have been able to react in time, as once again noted by Teresa's reaction to Priscilla disapearing from her sight.


Show me where in the manga sth like this is stated, please.

I have no clue what the author's intent was.
I can personally only theorize, but several people have stated Priscilla had the potential to surpass Teresa, and Teresa herself stated her fear of Priscilla's monsterous potential. So I just go with what Teresa's word over anything else on that matter.


Murder can be premeditated or under strong emotions and none of these fit to Clare. There is however word in english that perfectly describes Clare's actions (in my native language it's called "nieumyślne spowodowanie śmierci") and that is manslaughter.

Quoted for truth.

[Tempest35]

I believe it was either Vol. 3 or Vol. 4 where Ilena tells Noel and Sophia that Priscilla is the new #2. It was there where we learn that Priscilla has the potential to surpass Teresa. Ilena tells us this and I think that we can all agree that aside from Clare, Irene/Ilena is the best authority on Teresa there is/was. :heh:
I'll look it up in the bookstore and post my findings unless someone beats me to it. :p

[Mord]

Vol04ch18 - Ilena introduces Priscilla and thinks to herself that Priscilla will soon surpass Teresa, also thinks to herself that she wouldn't normally take on Teresa but that Priscilla caused her to change her mind.

Vol04ch20 - Ilena says that Priscilla is Teresa'a worst match since she surpresses her yoma power, She then says they need to help Priscilla because she is being outmatched and at this rate is going to lose her head.

Vol04ch21 - Teresa thinks to herself that Priscilla harbors a monster within herself, and that she may have difficulty defeating her the next time they meet. Ilena, Noel, and Sophia jump into the fight, all four claymores begin releasing yoma power and go after Teresa. Teresa then takes all four out without releasing any power, with Ilena admiting that she misjudged Teresa again.


If anything, I find that Ilena wasn't very good at judging Teresa. She wouldn't have even considered fighting Teresa without Priscilla's help, and even after having seen Teresa beat them all, she still thought that they stood a chance after having seen Teresa show mercy.

Teresa may have betrayed the Organization but it was Ilena's choice to continue with the mission to hunt her down that resulted in several claymores dying and the creation of one of if not the most powerful awakened being.

[Tempest35]

Ilena knew Teresa the best out of all of them but Teresa hid her the true extent of her power from EVERYONE.

I don't think that Ilena was going to continue with the mission right there - She would have continued it in the future, when Priscilla had more battle experience and was more mature, but she wasn't about to race off and try and fight Teresa after just getting owned. She talked about 'having a chance' because Teresa 'uncharacteristicly' spared Priscilla's life - the life of the only Claymore with the capacity to defeat her. That's what Ilena meant by 'still having a chance'.

EDIT: ...ah, I see, Viz's version is different from 10sigh's but that's to be expected I guess. Dammit Viz...

[khryoleoz]

Hey, that last part is insightful. I totally missed that about what Ilena/Irene meant. Cool!

[bluelight41]

That is one of the reasons I believe that Priscilla's speed at this point was simply beyond Teresa's ability to comprehend. The first attack could be excused by being caught off guard, but the second attack she did not even try to dodge.


I don't think that is a legitimate reason to believe that Priscilla's speed was too much for Teresa to comprehend at that point. The first attack took off Teresa's arm, and the second attack took off her head didn't it? The distance between the arm and the head is only a few inches...its not difficult to believe that both attacks happened within a nanosecond of each other or so. Teresa was taken by surpise by the first attack. Is Teresa's inability to dodge the second attack really that hard to believe, given that she was already taken by surprise the first time that hard to believe?

I think we should not understimate the power of a surprise attack. Like a poster previously said, if you've taken any form of martial arts or gotten into a fight before, you would know the huge difference in your reaction time when you are pumped up during a fight, expecting an attack, as opposed to when you are walking around campus, flirting with that good looking girl from your class. It really isn't out of the question for Teresa's death just to be a product of a surprise attack.

Let's not forget that Raki was able to cut Ophelia's arm when Ophelia wasn't paying attention. The difference between Raki and Ophelia was like night and day... a normal human against a top tier warrior. Despite this huge power difference, Raki was still able to make contact. Would one say Raki's speed was too fast for Ophelia, given that he made contact with her arm? Of course not. One would logically believe that Ophelia was simply caught off guard. It is known that Raki's speed is a huge drop off from the two defenders of the church. However, if Raki was as fast as those two, Ophelia's arm may have been gone before she could have responded. If this had happened, would you say that the two defenders of the church were faster than Ophelia? Of course not. This example should show that we cannot discount the significance of the element of surprise.

If at the time Raki was swinging at an unsuspecting human rather than Ophelia, the top tier warrior, does anyone really think Raki would not have been able to cut off the human's arm without the human even being able to respond? Given this, would it be unreasonable to assume that when you have two warriors, Teresa and Priscilla, who are much closer in strength, Priscilla could most likely kill Teresa before the Teresa had a chance to respond not because Priscilla's speed was uncomprehendable, but because it was a surprise attack?

[Fenrir_valindri]

I don't think that is a legitimate reason to believe that Priscilla's speed was too much for Teresa to comprehend at that point. The first attack took off Teresa's arm, and the second attack took off her head didn't it? The distance between the arm and the head is only a few inches...its not difficult to believe that both attacks happened within a nanosecond of each other or so. Teresa was taken by surpise by the first attack. Is Teresa's inability to dodge the second attack really that hard to believe, given that she was already taken by surprise the first time that hard to believe?

There is also the matter that Teresa was having a hard time with keeping up with Priscilla's speed JUST BEFORE Priscilla went over her limit, her inability to dodge is not what strikes me, it was her inability to even register what happened.

I think we should not understimate the power of a surprise attack. Like a poster previously said, if you've taken any form of martial arts or gotten into a fight before, you would know the huge difference in your reaction time when you are pumped up during a fight, expecting an attack, as opposed to when you are walking around campus, flirting with that good looking girl from your class. It really isn't out of the question for Teresa's death just to be a product of a surprise attack.

Teresa was intending to kill Priscilla, which is completely different from the scenario's you mentioned, and I have taken martial arts (as some people here probably know) and Teresa's level of experience would have at least allowed her to respond, no matter how poorly, to Priscilla's surprise attack.

Let's not forget that Raki was able to cut Ophelia's arm when Ophelia wasn't paying attention. The difference between Raki and Ophelia was like night and day... a normal human against a top tier warrior. Despite this huge power difference, Raki was still able to make contact. Would one say Raki's speed was too fast for Ophelia, given that he made contact with her arm? Of course not. One would logically believe that Ophelia was simply caught off guard. It is known that Raki's speed is a huge drop off from the two defenders of the church. However, if Raki was as fast as those two, Ophelia's arm may have been gone before she could have responded. If this had happened, would you say that the two defenders of the church were faster than Ophelia? Of course not. This example should show that we cannot discount the significance of the element of surprise.

Yet Ophelia, who was paying complete attention to Clare, and was attacked by Yoki-less Raki, was able to dodge any serious injury. While Teresa, the best #1 in history, who was about to kill Priscilla, is talented at sensing Yoki, was unable to even react to Priscilla's swing.

If at the time Raki was swinging at an unsuspecting human rather than Ophelia, the top tier warrior, does anyone really think Raki would not have been able to cut off the human's arm without the human even being able to respond? Given this, would it be unreasonable to assume that when you have two warriors, Teresa and Priscilla, who are much closer in strength, Priscilla could most likely kill Teresa before the Teresa had a chance to respond not because Priscilla's speed was uncomprehendable, but because it was a surprise attack?

You are also ignoring the earlier instance of Teresa completely losing sight of Priscilla, not to mention that she was suddenly straining against Priscilla's strength, that just a few moments ago, she was handling with ease.

[cors8]

I think you're ignoring the fact that Teresa probably has never been injured that badly before.

She was more than likely too shocked to respond to Priscilla's insane speed at point-blank range.

No matter how experienced you are in fighting, there will be things that surprise you enough to lower your reaction time.

[Fenrir_valindri]

I think you're ignoring the fact that Teresa probably has never been injured that badly before.

She was more than likely too shocked to respond to Priscilla's insane speed at point-blank range.

No matter how experienced you are in fighting, there will be things that surprise you enough to lower your reaction time.

By that logic; Clare would have been too shocked to even respond to getting her legs cut off.

The simple matter is this, Teresa did not even look like she register that her hands where cut off, no pain, nothing, just confusion as to why her hands were missing.

Lowering reaction time is all well and good, but not even being able to react to pain?

Priscilla's insane speed is exactly the point, she was moving at such a speed that Teresa was not even able to recognize the fact she was injured before she died.

[bluelight41]

Teresa was intending to kill Priscilla, which is completely different from the scenario's you mentioned, and I have taken martial arts (as some people here probably know) and Teresa's level of experience would have at least allowed her to respond, no matter how poorly, to Priscilla's surprise attack.


Teresa was intending to kill Priscilla, execution style. That's completely different from intending to kill Priscilla during a heated battle. The battle was assumed to be over at that point, since Priscilla was begging Teresa to finish her. Your acting like Teresa was focused 100% on Priscilla at this point. Teresa believed that Priscilla would just allow her to execute her, therefore let her guard down.

What do you mean by "responding to the attack?" Do you mean a flinch, a dodge, or what? It's not always possible to respond to the attack, especially if one was caught off guard. Furthermore, the level of experience one possesses does not dictate if one can respond or not to a certain scenario. For example, I have been playing basketball for around 18 years, 12 of those being competitive organized ball. It could be said that I am very experienced in the game of basketball. When I was playing Division I basketball, opposing guards would try to steal the ball from me (obviously). However, it wouldn't be easy to steal the ball from me when both my physical and mental levels peaked in the middle of the game, during which I was fully expecting them to make a move. Even if they did manage to steal the ball from me, I would be able to physically respond to it in some way. However, if during the game my attention lapses for even a second or two, or I let my guard down, the ball that I was dribbling could be gone. I wouldn't even have a chance to respond before the ball was already out of my hands. If I was fast enough to react and register what happened, I could have done some crossover or spin, and the ball would not have been stolen, correct? With this example, It's not hard to believe that one could be completely unable to respond to a surprise attack would it?

So if we replace the basketball example with a combat example, wouldn't this assumption still be relevant? If I'm fighting an opponent with a sword, wouldn't it be hard for either of us to land a hit on each other, given that our skills were close? However, if I was convinced that the fight was over, and I was calmly walking over to my opponent to shake hands or whatever, and he sucker decapitates me, would I be able to respond? Probably not. How can I respond when the instant the sword cleaves me, I'm dead?




Yet Ophelia, who was paying complete attention to Clare, and was attacked by Yoki-less Raki, was able to dodge any serious injury. While Teresa, the best #1 in history, who was about to kill Priscilla, is talented at sensing Yoki, was unable to even react to Priscilla's swing.


Ophelia was able to dodge any serious injury because Raki's skill level was far far inferior compared to hers. If Raki was closer in skill level to her, say anywhere around the two church defender's skill level, Ophelia's arm would probably have been gone. Also, just because Raki is Yoki-less, doesn't mean Ophelia would be unable to sense him. They still have far superior senses than humans after all. Your statement seems to imply that because Raki has no Yoki, Ophelia would be completely unable to sense his presence. This is not true. For example, in the Darkness in Paradise arc, Clare was fighting those two church defenders on the rooftop. She was focused on fighting the bigger sword wielding defender at the time, yet when the other defender threw his three daggers at Clare from behind, she deflected them all with the sword in her other hand without even having to turn around. This suggests that although those humans were Yoki-less, she had other means of sensing their presence and actions. If not, she would have gotten hit in the back by all three daggers, rather than deflected them easily. The Ophelia - Raki and Teresa - Priscilla incidents outlined above are actually quite similar, given these reasons.

Teresa and Priscilla was probably another case as well. As we know, Teresa was excellent at sensing Yoki power. Thus, the only way she would not have been warned of the attack was if Priscilla's Yoki power spiked at almost exactly the same time that she launched the attack. In other words, Priscilla elevated her attack power considerably in a second, and used that second to launch the attack. Did you ever watch DBZ? When I was younger, I remember watching Goku fight a member of Freiza's elite task force shortly after he landed on Piccolo's planet. The members of that elite task force completely discounted Goku's because they could not feel much power coming from him. However, Goku catches the first member of the force off guard when he raises his attack power tremendously and elbows the guy in the stomach all in the same second. This attack instantly kills the guy as he was caught off guard. Although I hate to use DBZ as an example, this is the example that came off the top of my head. This example does have its shortcomings. However, I believe that this example, along with the other real life example I included, should be suffice to show the power of surprise.


There is also the matter that Teresa was having a hard time with keeping up with Priscilla's speed JUST BEFORE Priscilla went over her limit

You are also ignoring the earlier instance of Teresa completely losing sight of Priscilla, not to mention that she was suddenly straining against Priscilla's strength, that just a few moments ago, she was handling with ease.


I'm sorry, I don't remember that part of the series very well snce I've only read the whole series once, and I finished it in a total of 3 hours. I'll have to reread it again tommorow before responding to this statement.

[FateAnomaly]

Priscilla's insane speed is exactly the point, she was moving at such a speed that Teresa was not even able to recognize the fact she was injured before she died.

The thing is there is a time gap between the first and second attack. The second attack came after the hands dropped to the ground. For people who can fight faster than the eye can see the time gap would be significant, so i wouldn't say Priscilla have insane speed at that time.

[hierophant]

The thing is there is a time gap between the first and second attack. The second attack came after the hands dropped to the ground. For people who can fight faster than the eye can see the time gap would be significant, so i wouldn't say Priscilla have insane speed at that time.

Well, I don't know about you, but I think it would be a lot weird seeing Teresa armless dodging the attacks like a cockroach (did I heard Deidera?) :D

[cors8]

By that logic; Clare would have been too shocked to even respond to getting her legs cut off.

The simple matter is this, Teresa did not even look like she register that her hands where cut off, no pain, nothing, just confusion as to why her hands were missing.

Lowering reaction time is all well and good, but not even being able to react to pain?

Priscilla's insane speed is exactly the point, she was moving at such a speed that Teresa was not even able to recognize the fact she was injured before she died.

You really can't compare Clare to Teresa. Clare's used to being injured all the time, especially at that point in the story.

We've never been shown that Teresa has experienced being injured like Clare has been, nor has it been implied she ever has been until Priscilla.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Teresa was intending to kill Priscilla, execution style. That's completely different from intending to kill Priscilla during a heated battle. The battle was assumed to be over at that point, since Priscilla was begging Teresa to finish her. Your acting like Teresa was focused 100% on Priscilla at this point. Teresa believed that Priscilla would just allow her to execute her, therefore let her guard down.

Just because Teresa was not expecting Priscilla to attack her does not mean she was not focused on Priscilla at this point, she was facing a extremely powerful Claymore who was in the process of awakening, of course she was focusing on her.

What do you mean by "responding to the attack?" Do you mean a flinch, a dodge, or what? It's not always possible to respond to the attack, especially if one was caught off guard. Furthermore, the level of experience one possesses does not dictate if one can respond or not to a certain scenario. For example, I have been playing basketball for around 18 years, 12 of those being competitive organized ball. It could be said that I am very experienced in the game of basketball. When I was playing Division I basketball, opposing guards would try to steal the ball from me (obviously). However, it wouldn't be easy to steal the ball from me when both my physical and mental levels peaked in the middle of the game, during which I was fully expecting them to make a move. Even if they did manage to steal the ball from me, I would be able to physically respond to it in some way. However, if during the game my attention lapses for even a second or two, or I let my guard down, the ball that I was dribbling could be gone. I wouldn't even have a chance to respond before the ball was already out of my hands. If I was fast enough to react and register what happened, I could have done some crossover or spin, and the ball would not have been stolen, correct? With this example, It's not hard to believe that one could be completely unable to respond to a surprise attack would it?

You would however, notice the ball was gone at least. Teresa mind was not wandering out in lala land at that time, she was looking at Priscilla directly, sword in hand, yet Priscilla, with Teresa directly facing her, was able to cut off her hands without Teresa even realizing what was going on.

So if we replace the basketball example with a combat example, wouldn't this assumption still be relevant? If I'm fighting an opponent with a sword, wouldn't it be hard for either of us to land a hit on each other, given that our skills were close? However, if I was convinced that the fight was over, and I was calmly walking over to my opponent to shake hands or whatever, and he sucker decapitates me, would I be able to respond? Probably not. How can I respond when the instant the sword cleaves me, I'm dead?

You would at least respond if he sucker cuts off your hands first, and then goes for the death blow, at least if you have any ability to feel pain. The issue is that Teresa was attacked twice, and did not exhibit a significant response to either attack.

Ophelia was able to dodge any serious injury because Raki's skill level was far far inferior compared to hers. If Raki was closer in skill level to her, say anywhere around the two church defender's skill level, Ophelia's arm would probably have been gone. Also, just because Raki is Yoki-less, doesn't mean Ophelia would be unable to sense him. They still have far superior senses than humans after all. Your statement seems to imply that because Raki has no Yoki, Ophelia would be completely unable to sense his presence. This is not true. For example, in the Darkness in Paradise arc, Clare was fighting those two church defenders on the rooftop. She was focused on fighting the bigger sword wielding defender at the time, yet when the other defender threw his three daggers at Clare from behind, she deflected them all with the sword in her other hand without even having to turn around. This suggests that although those humans were Yoki-less, she had other means of sensing their presence and actions. If not, she would have gotten hit in the back by all three daggers, rather than deflected them easily. The Ophelia - Raki and Teresa - Priscilla incidents outlined above are actually quite similar, given these reasons.

Going by your theory of sneak attack, it would not have mattered how skilled Raki was, he was human, and thus did not stand a chance of significantly injuring Ophelia. When Clare was fighting the two Knights, she was focused on fighting THEM, just because she was facing one of them does not mean she was not aware of the other. So being Yoki-less is quite the advantage.

Teresa and Priscilla was probably another case as well. As we know, Teresa was excellent at sensing Yoki power. Thus, the only way she would not have been warned of the attack was if Priscilla's Yoki power spiked at almost exactly the same time that she launched the attack. In other words, Priscilla elevated her attack power considerably in a second, and used that second to launch the attack. Did you ever watch DBZ? When I was younger, I remember watching Goku fight a member of Freiza's elite task force shortly after he landed on Piccolo's planet. The members of that elite task force completely discounted Goku's because they could not feel much power coming from him. However, Goku catches the first member of the force off guard when he raises his attack power tremendously and elbows the guy in the stomach all in the same second. This attack instantly kills the guy as he was caught off guard. Although I hate to use DBZ as an example, this is the example that came off the top of my head. This example does have its shortcomings. However, I believe that this example, along with the other real life example I included, should be suffice to show the power of surprise.

The problem with that line of thinking is that Priscilla was already throwing out a huge amoung of Yoki, and any Flare in it at all would have been a noticable shift to Teresa's yoki-radar. The guy Goku nailed also at least realized he was injured before he passed out.


I'm sorry, I don't remember that part of the series very well snce I've only read the whole series once, and I finished it in a total of 3 hours. I'll have to reread it again tommorow before responding to this statement.

I'll forgive you this time :heh:

The thing is there is a time gap between the first and second attack. The second attack came after the hands dropped to the ground. For people who can fight faster than the eye can see the time gap would be significant, so i wouldn't say Priscilla have insane speed at that time.

There was indeed a delay between the attacks, but that just shows that Teresa really did not have a clue that she had just lost her arms, heck she was not even bleeding yet (which is odd.) Priscilla cuts of Teresa's hands, Teresa's hands fly over near Clare, and then Priscilla attacks again, killing Teresa. That is alot of time for someone not to react to pain. We could put it off as manga time, but I dislike doing that.

You really can't compare Clare to Teresa. Clare's used to being injured all the time, especially at that point in the story.

We've never been shown that Teresa has experienced being injured like Clare has been, nor has it been implied she ever has been until Priscilla.

Teresa was knocked around quite a bit by Rosemary (who probably hits a great deal harder then most things Clare has fought) before killing her. So I doubt pain tolerance or suprise at getting injured is the issue here. Although having a limb cut of is significantly different, Teresa could have at least cried out in pain if she had realized what happened.

[hierophant]

The simple matter is this, Teresa did not even look like she register that her hands where cut off, no pain, nothing, just confusion as to why her hands were missing.

You really can't compare Clare to Teresa. Clare's used to being injured all the time, especially at that point in the story.

Actually, amputed members are not that painful (at least in the act of amputation). The reason is that most cells responsible for the pain are all cut among the member. It mean Teresa sama didn't had time to feel the pain. She was probably just shocked by Priscila's act, not believing in what just happened, just like when something very bad happen to us, we need some time to assimilate it.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Actually, amputed members are not that painful (at least in the act of amputation). The reason is that most cells responsible for the pain are all cut among the member. It mean Teresa sama didn't had time to feel the pain. She was probably just shocked by Priscila's act, not believing in what just happened, just like when something very bad happen to us, we need some time to assimilate it.

I can't say I am qualified to respond to the accuracy of that, but it is basically like when you get burned by something so hot you can't even feel the burn right?

I still believe a combat hardened warrior like Teresa, even with her guard dropped, would have responded in some way to being injured.

The fact her hands even had time to hit the ground before the follow up attack came. If anything Teresa's shock is proof of how fast Priscilla was at that moment, even with her guard let down, I don't think Teresa saw the attack.

[hierophant]

I can't say I am qualified to respond to the accuracy of that, but it is basically like when you get burned by something so hot you can't even feel the burn right?

Only in 3rd degree burns (when the cells die and become black). 2nd degree (when bubbles are formed in skin) hurt like in burning in hell.

I still believe a combat hardened warrior like Teresa, even with her guard dropped, would have responded in some way to being injured.

The fact her hands even had time to hit the ground before the follow up attack came. If anything Teresa's shock is proof of how fast Priscilla was at that moment, even with her guard let down, I don't think Teresa saw the attack.

Me neither. Both attacks where too fast. But she did had a little time to think before the 2nd attack.

[BaalChaamon]

Simple solution to all the hickhack about why Teresa could not counter Priscillas attack and react fast enough: Yagi-san had to kill her somehow and probably didnt give it much thought of how to implement it coherently with Teresa's and Priscilla's specs in mind.

Interestingly enough, in the anime Teresa explicitly states that she could not read Priscillas Yoki propably because it was all over the place and overflowing. Seeing that she reduced her own Yoki to execute a her would propably affect her Yoki reading abilities too (she was able to effectively block and even injure Priscilla's attack after she increased her own Yoki to 10% output).

Teresa had to die for story and shock & awe reasons and thats the end of it.

[Fenrir_valindri]

But that is a boring answer, we must debate it till the end of time!!!!! :heh:

I don't think Teresa increasing her own Yoki improves her Yoki-reading skills, at least judging by how Clare had to learn Yoki-sensing. The manga also stated that Teresa was having a hard time reading Priscilla's attacks.

[kakashisensei]

I think it would have been alot better if Priscilla's plan to kill Teresa involved attacking Clare, there would be many more possibilities of Teresa getting killed without the whole was she really outclassed or caught off guard outcome.

[Fenrir_valindri]

I think the author is leaving it purposefully vague, and that would also significantly change Priscilla's character.

[Davitz]

how did this topic go from extra scene 3 to...
how everyone is trying to make excuses up for why teressa died and how she was not able to dodge it and the pain etc etc
its something that happened early on in the manga/anime
get over it?

[Fenrir_valindri]

Bah, don't interrupt our fun, it relates to the topic because it has to do with Priscilla's power level in comparision in what we saw in extra chapter 3, people simply want to compare it to Teresa's previous display of power and the debate went from there

[Tempest35]

Miria's #1 fan as well as eternal defender of Teresa...*snicker*

Priscilla's too yummy - I can't bring myself to hate her even with all the crap she's done. Quite frankly, it's hard to hate anyone in Claymore based on the 'bad' that they've done. But alas, I digress. So now I'll just state some of what my feelings on my lil yummy Awakened are. :D

While a mature 20-something old Priscilla would have outclassed Teresa for sure, since all her power as well as potential was unleased at her Awakening...I assume that this means that her actual physical traits ie sword skills, agility and strength would have been ranked at 'A+' while her youki would have been 'S', making her the single greatest 'monster' ever created.

And several people, including Irene, have stated that Priscilla's hatred of Youma was the only think that rivaled her power. So the Priscilla walking around now has no recollection of 'recent' events because her power blew her brain. :heh: She did have a 'C' for mental conditioning as a Claymore - so that makes me think that with as high Youki as she had, when it got released all of a sudden, the shock literally blew her consciousness out the window, or at least most of it.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Miria's #1 fan as well as eternal defender of Teresa...*snicker*

Priscilla's too yummy - I can't bring myself to hate her even with all the crap she's done. Quite frankly, it's hard to hate anyone in Claymore based on the 'bad' that they've done. But alas, I digress. So now I'll just state some of what my feelings on my lil yummy Awakened are. :D

While a mature 20-something old Priscilla would have outclassed Teresa for sure, since all her power as well as potential was unleased at her Awakening...I assume that this means that her actual physical traits ie sword skills, agility and strength would have been ranked at 'A+' while her youki would have been 'S', making her the single greatest 'monster' ever created.

And several people, including Irene, have stated that Priscilla's hatred of Youma was the only think that rivaled her power. So the Priscilla walking around now has no recollection of 'recent' events because her power blew her brain. :heh: She did have a 'C' for mental conditioning as a Claymore - so that makes me think that with as high Youki as she had, when it got released all of a sudden, the shock literally blew her consciousness out the window, or at least most of it.

I was thinking something along similiar lines, that she simply generates to much energy for her mind to function properly, and she even subconciously holdes it back. She was quite talented at supressing her Yoki
too.

P.S. Miria's #1 Fan/lapdog tyvm :D

[password1]

Welcome to the monthly discussion thread for Claymore, Chapter ES 3.

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After episode 73 was published in the last volume of Shounen Monthly Jump the mangaka, Yagi-sensei, decided to take a break from continuing the story to release various side stories. This chapter is the third of four extra chapters that are being released monthly in Shounen Weekly Jump until Claymore is moved to a new monthly magazine. These chapters feature side stories that took place in the past. It is expected that they will be done after 4 episodes and then chapter 74 will be published.

Chapter ES 4 will be released in October, a month from now.

omg GAY!!! i dont mind him taking a break since october here already however montly releases are so slow and they usualy only release like 47 page chapters usualy weekly release are 15-19 pages average that and the lowest number of pages u could get is 60 wow this is just like when i found out tenhoue tenge was a monthly release man i wish they would just stick to one project and complete it instead of extending his hand to other things when he hasnt even finished his best project yet i really dont know what yagi is thinking but i guess everyone has there reasons but still this is kinda dumb to me :twitch:

[NoSanninWa]

omg GAY!!! i dont mind him taking a break since october here already however montly releases are so slow and they usualy only release like 47 page chapters usualy weekly release are 15-19 pages average that and the lowest number of pages u could get is 60 wow this is just like when i found out tenhoue tenge was a monthly release man i wish they would just stick to one project and complete it instead of extending his hand to other things when he hasnt even finished his best project yet i really dont know what yagi is thinking but i guess everyone has there reasons but still this is kinda dumb to me :twitch:

This is Yagi-sensei's only project.
Yagi-sensei works by himself without a studio.
He releases a chapter every single month, like clockwork, without taking any breaks.
If he was able to keep up the same level of quality on a weekly schedule, I'm sure he'd be happy to do so.
That's probably a good part of what he's thinking. I also suspect that there is a lot else in his life and he isn't willing to sacrifice other things that are important to him for this manga. I'm just glad it is so darn good and that he isn't willing to sacrifice its quality to put it out faster.

[password1]

it came off as if he was doing other projects i see this is his only project and im grateful he puts time into creating quality releases although it would probaly be possible if he worked with a studio is what im thinking. just really wish they were weekly is all im saying its so hard to find good action anime.manga like claymore and beserk..... :( if someone reads this and knows of a good recomendation feel free to pm it to me.. thx

[khryoleoz]

While a mature 20-something old Priscilla would have outclassed Teresa for sure, since all her power as well as potential was unleased at her Awakening...I assume that this means that her actual physical traits ie sword skills, agility and strength would have been ranked at 'A+' while her youki would have been 'S', making her the single greatest 'monster' ever created.

Yes, but anybody who's alive would outclass a dead person. And how can you say the above after professing to be an eternal defender of Teresa? :confused:

[Fenrir_valindri]

Being a defender of Teresa does not negate his arguement over whether or not Priscilla would surpass Teresa if she had developed her skill fully. We are all talking theory here after all. :D

[khryoleoz]

Sure. I say all this in jest of course, it's just that it's the same idea that says Priscilla was faster than Teresa at the time she had off'd her when the difference between them was that Teresa was just standing there. I mean...let's give the girl a break! Teresa may be big with fans, but save for ONE person, she was despised by her contemporaries and her superiors, and most significantly the (in my view anyway) 2nd strongest character in the Claymore universe. She deserves our love! :)

[Fenrir_valindri]

Heh, I think the only people that despised Teresa were the Black cloaks and the bandits. The Claymores were just after her because they were ordered too.

[stormy001_M1A2]

omg GAY!!! i dont mind him taking a break since october here already however montly releases are so slow and they usualy only release like 47 page chapters usualy weekly release are 15-19 pages average that and the lowest number of pages u could get is 60 wow this is just like when i found out tenhoue tenge was a monthly release man i wish they would just stick to one project and complete it instead of extending his hand to other things when he hasnt even finished his best project yet i really dont know what yagi is thinking but i guess everyone has there reasons but still this is kinda dumb to me :twitch:

As if you paying for his work. :p

Do you ever buy any legitimate copies of Claymore manga or tankubon?

[Fenrir_valindri]

I just realized something, I think the injuries Priscilla received from Isley at the start of their fight DID give Priscilla amnesia. She had her typical "dream-state" personality until after Isley injured her, and then all of a sudden she starts throwing out a huge amount of energy and her personality changes.

My guess is that Priscilla was somehow holding her power back subconciously (similiar to how she spares little girls subconciously), but her amnesia somehow unblocked that power-check. :uhoh:

Something that just randomely crossed my mind as I was re-reading the extra chapters today.

[azurie]

watching the anime (and something i noticed was in the manga as well since at this time they were so close to each other) Priscilla just over looked Clare after she awakened. Now if i had just awakened and was as hungry as she said she was a nice tasty snack as Clare would "look" to be wouldn't go without me grabbin some ketchup and a napkin not sure about the rest of ya out there. Just found it odd myself and have to wonder why she didn't kill Clare back then and if she knew who that girl is now what would happen?

[Fenrir_valindri]

watching the anime (and something i noticed was in the manga as well since at this time they were so close to each other) Priscilla just over looked Clare after she awakened. Now if i had just awakened and was as hungry as she said she was a nice tasty snack as Clare would "look" to be wouldn't go without me grabbin some ketchup and a napkin not sure about the rest of ya out there. Just found it odd myself and have to wonder why she didn't kill Clare back then and if she knew who that girl is now what would happen?

That is one of the great mysteries of Claymore, perhaps it was Priscilla subconciously avoiding killing those she considered "innocent?" Who knows, guess we will have to wait till Priscilla arrives on the scene again.

[azurie]

or perhaps reminded her to much of herself?

[LesAmiesNoir]

Could be something alike to that. I've seen many theories on this one, a populare sibject. My personal belif is that she's sparing little girls in general, I'm also considering the incident with Ophelia here.

[azurie]

i will agree with many different theorys simply due to lack of knowlege as of yet. Once have enough to only support ONE theory then that i'm afraid is the one we will each have to go with regardless of who's it is and granted we may each end up picking different ones but that's why life is so special we have that choice =)

[LesAmiesNoir]

Very true. We are free to believe what we wish to believe unless something else has been proven, until then we are free to argue, that's what the forums are partly about ^^;

[azurie]

and that's why i just love the free range of ideas we all share here nice and polite like =)

[DazarGaidin]

How many people really see themselves?

[azurie]

not sure what you're talking about

[DazarGaidin]

Im saying, priscilla didn't see those girls because they represented herself, and from her perspective she didnt really see 'herself'. Thats my theory anyway.

[NoSanninWa]

Im saying, priscilla didn't see those girls because they represented herself, and from her perspective she didnt really see 'herself'. Thats my theory anyway.
Interesting persepctive. I'll have to consider that.

[azurie]

i agree very interesting perspective a self blindness so to speak something you could say we all have if you think about it.

[FlareKnight]

How many people really see themselves?
Many do, thanks to the power of the mighty mirror :D.

But really some insane power from Priscilla taking out Easley like that. Got to see what he's capable of as well so not a bad one. Very dangerous power to just destroy half of his body like that. Though most people wouldn't get up after that. Smart thinking though making use of her state and control her as best he could. A dangerous gamble to keep someone that strong close, but it's paid off so far.

Suppose the Teresa death debate will rage on until the end of time. Or they bring Teresa back via magic and give them a final showdown :).