View Full Version : [Manga] Orochimaru comes back
inyourmamabed
2007-09-12, 10:22
While we all know Orochimaru baody parts are taking over Kabuto body. When it fully takes over, I would like to know. What is the first thing you think Orochimaru going to do?
I think he's going to lay an omega smack down on Sasuke for beating him. Or at the end of the Itachi vs Sasuke battle. At the last sec he going to come and take over one of their body.
What you think?
Sarugaki
2007-09-12, 11:03
Oro's cells don't contain his consciousness. Kabuto will benefit from their chakra and regenerative abilities, but that's it. The cells might eventually take over, but it's not gonna be "Oro".
Well.. IMO.
Well, maybe Orochimaru can somehow escape Sasukeīs body. Than maybe he takes over "Kabutoīs Oro body", in order to regain his full strength, he had when he fought sandaime.
kodok_balls
2007-09-12, 12:34
probably, very much possibilties here. i think there is somethings gona do with sasuke and itachi's final showdown. oro will suddenly made his comeback and play some role there. considering that oro's spirit are still inside sasuke. indeed it is true that oro are inside sasuke confirmed by sasuke's saying that he gain some oro's ability like regeneration.it mean it's the reverse than oro want. sasuke who is actually absorb oro. many possibilities would happen. kishi had already showing a hint by kabuto-orochimaru. alot surprise here.. i guess
Idea of Orochimarus 'soul' inside Sasuke is simply absurd in my opinion...
Sasuke crushed Orochimaru 6-0 and why the hell he even SHOULD survive? Orochimaru was kind of loser entire series... He lost to Sandaime becouse he got damn over-confident and started to play with him.
Orochimaru was damn too full of himself and I had no respect about him...at start of series he was very convincing and mystic bad guy but in end he was mere drop out loser of Akatsuki...
Yes Kabuto/Orochimaru may produce new kind of 'hybrid' with personality of his own but I think there isn't a bid of Orochimaru in Sasuke
kodok_balls
2007-09-12, 13:03
yeah.. where did 6-0 score coming from. i'm not try to praise oro here. but i'm just trying to be objective.not based on like and dislike or emotional cognitive response.
yes, objectivity and fact is needed to made an arguement..
and yes.. sasuke does absorb oro's.. maybe spirit or whatever it takes. it resulted in sasuke's regeneration ( confirmed on chpt365 ) and maybe some snake magic that he show.
and believe me, kishi doesn't show us kabutorochimaru for nothing
oro lost to sandaime? thats a shocker...last time i checked oro was the winner...
Well yes he was winner although he managed to lost both of his arms and very close to death
He was a winner in the sense that he was stronger than the old man, yet lost his jutsu abilities. it's like dedicating your whole life to eating a single piece of Tiramasu, and then when you get it you've lost your tastebuds before you can eat it.
Orochimaru a loser? Did I miss something? He has lost against Itachi. But thatīs just because he didnīt know how to fight sharingan. Against Sasuke he "lost" because he was in a weakened state, sasuke stated that himself. And even now it isnīt sure if Oro really lost, or got absorbed on purpose.
Donīt forget, even Sarutobi said, Oro was the most talented out of the sannins.
I really like Orochimaru, heīs my favourite villain and has WAY more stile, than stupid Itachid for example, and he has the coolest anime voice ever.
I hope he is not dead, yet.
Sabaku Kyu
2007-09-12, 21:54
While we all know Orochimaru baody parts are taking over Kabuto body. When it fully takes over, I would like to know. What is the first thing you think Orochimaru going to do?
I think he's going to lay an omega smack down on Sasuke for beating him. Or at the end of the Itachi vs Sasuke battle. At the last sec he going to come and take over one of their body.
What you think?
Even though Oro's cells haven't fully assimilated into his body yet, Kabuto has already made it his goal to kill Sasuke in revenge for "murdering" Orochimaru. So, there's a good chance the two will meet up eventually. If that happens, it will be interesting to see what happens. Might be that the presence of his own genetic material nearby in Kabutochimaru could even awaken Oro's soul within Sasuke's body.
I'm thinking Oro is sort of laying-in-wait, inside Sasuke, for an appropriate time to strike back (at whatever). Just because Oro is inside Sasuke, doesn't mean he doesn't have his own will. And, to go with that, Sasuke could have some control over Oro's spirit (or whatever you want to call it), while it's inside him.
On another note, we should come up with an official label for this new Kabuto-Orochimaru combination.
Kabutochimaru
Kabutorochi
Orochimabuto
or some other random combination of the two names...any thoughts?
I thought it was said in the manga by Yamato that they would call him "Kabutomaru". Who knows maybe it was just a one-time random moment. If anything, Oro won't be "whole" until he has met up with Kabuto again full-circle.
i think Oro won't come back to his full self... he will take over kabuto's body, but it will be slow... then kabuto will die because his body can't fight if off, Oro will still have his killing body but not his mind in such a state.
Deathwing
2007-09-12, 23:32
if oro comes back its not gonna be threw sasuke
When oro has been weakened none of the other souls he had overtook him and he was using their bodies sasuke is using his own body and plus we have seen sasuke pushed to the limit when fighting dedria and no sign of oro taking over his body. Face it people oro is gone when it comes to his point.
Kabuto on the other hand shows signs of being taken over and may very well be consumed.
Sarugaki
2007-09-13, 04:31
I hope Oro takes over Sasuke, Sasuke is strong but boring.
kodok_balls
2007-09-13, 06:42
if oro comes back its not gonna be threw sasuke
When oro has been weakened none of the other souls he had overtook him and he was using their bodies sasuke is using his own body and plus we have seen sasuke pushed to the limit when fighting dedria and no sign of oro taking over his body. Face it people oro is gone when it comes to his point.
Kabuto on the other hand shows signs of being taken over and may very well be consumed.
we have not seen it yet. just wait. i still believe that surprise will rise.
like I said before, the author is preparing somework for orochimaru's thing. and the most reliable hint had show off already ( kabutomaru ).
and for the sasuke, who knows... there are many possibilities and option for the author. maybe he just can rise oro's comeback related in sasuke or maybe not. every thing just would be possible...
I also hope Oro will make his comeback. As his true self, not some part of Kabuto.
After all he is the coolest and evilest villain who deserves his rightful place in the manga.
IMO if a character like orochimaru comes back, after they have been wot seems permanently killed off this will make it rubbish, if every villain or goodguy that died that had a possible chance of coming back, comes back when will it end lol.
Mr. Johnny 5
2007-09-13, 17:21
Since this is a manga thread.....
I hope that Orochimaru returns (very very soon) and joins Jiraiya with Tsunade in their (maybe only Jiraiya and Tsunade's) last and final battle.
These 3 shinobi need to prove why the were called the Legendary Sannin (extremly good teamwork? or individual power?)
oro lost to sandaime? thats a shocker...last time i checked oro was the winner...
Orochimaru was trying to destroy the village, the 3rd was trying to protect it. Which one accomplished their goal?
I hope that Orochimaru returns (very very soon) and joins Jiraiya with Tsunade in their (maybe only Jiraiya and Tsunade's) last and final battle.
Let bygones be bygones huh?:heh:
Most likely Jiraiyi will die, and Oro will come back but he and Tsunade will kill each other.
Mr. Johnny 5
2007-09-14, 03:05
Let bygones be bygones huh?:heh:
Most likely Jiraiyi will die, and Oro will come back but he and Tsunade will kill each other.
I wonder if all 3 of them will die as virgins :( (maybe the reason why Tsunade was sooo depressed for years and years)
Orochimaru was trying to destroy the village, the 3rd was trying to protect it. Which one accomplished their goal?
oro was trying to kill sandaime and sandaime was trying to kill oro...which one accomplished their goal?
MonkeyKingEnma
2007-09-14, 09:09
I still have hopes that oro plotted something on a larger scale. Maybe he was well aware after his fight with itachi that there would be no chance to defeat/take over a sharingan user as itachi and now even sasuke is. At least through outer influence that is. So he might have decided on an alternative solution to gain an uchiha body. Sasuke's frequent use of the curse seal might give oro the possibility to gain influence. He made sasuke absorb him in order to gradually gain control over him, waiting for the right moment to come out of his hiding. Imo the best way kishi could do this would be:
an impressive battle between sasuke-itachi which results in sasuke's defeat. Lying on the floor heavily injured and hardly breathing sasuke is exposed to itachi's mercy (which we already know he does not have). cocky itachi gives a last one of his arrogant lines like: "foolish little brother....your pathetic hatred wouldn't even enable you to reroll your first attack in a warhammer table top game not to mention giving you the power to best me." Sasuke breaks out in loud laughter, his wounds start to heal and itachi is like wtf? Sasuke's laughter then slowly fades into the creepy fufu we have become fond of oro. Itachi stays calm and says: " i see, so my brother was not even successful in defeating a little snake. But neither the earthbound body nor the earthbound ambition of a snake will reach the heavens in my world!" He gazes at sasuke/oro and gives him a taste of his tsukuyomi. (Close up on sasuke's shocked face, then his mouth shows an evil grin)
"Most interesting, so this is the sharingan" (We see Sasuke's face which shows two thin snake eyes with 3 sharingan pupils in it).
"In exchange for his body, i granted your little brother one wish...." Sasuke/Oro pulls out the sword of itachi's lifeless body.
Alright, enough of the daydreaming but that is what would satisfy me the most. Afterwards Oro could stay in Sasuke's body and kill kabuto, cause he dislikes the idea of having a crappy copy of him or he could use his body to experiment with it for further uses.
Or he unites with kabutomaru to his former self, giving sasuke's body and will free. After his brother's death sasuke's now obsessed with killing oro cause he didn't witness itachi's end and wanted to do it himself.
oro was trying to kill sandaime and sandaime was trying to kill oro...which one accomplished their goal?
Sandiame. See when someone asks a question, it's better to just respond with a direct answer than going around in circles.:heh:
Sandiame. See when someone asks a question, it's better to just respond with a direct answer than going around in circles.:heh:
and a dircet answer coming from a guy who didnt understand what happened is just pathetic.:heh:
and a dircet answer coming from a guy who didnt understand what happened is just pathetic.:heh:
Ahh but I did know what happened, you were trying to play it off as if Sandiame's main goal was to kill Oro and Oro's main goal was to kill Sandiame; nah uh not the case. His reason was to protect the village and Oro was to destroy it. Which is why I answered "Sandiame". Plain and simple, my "dircet" answer.:heh:
Ahh but I did know what happened, you were trying to play it off as if Sandiame's main goal was to kill Oro and Oro's main goal was to kill Sandiame; nah uh not the case. His reason was to protect the village and Oro was to destroy it. Which is why I answered "Sandiame". Plain and simple, my "dircet" answer.:heh:
no question is did oro loose to sandaime not did sound and sand destroyed konoha.
oro win the fight with sandaime and konoha win the war with sound and sand. thats it.
oro killed sandaime and survived in a life or death battle.and actually he didnt loose anything at all.
no question is did oro loose to sandaime not did sound and sand destroyed konoha.
oro win the fight with sandaime and konoha win the war with sound and sand. thats it.
oro killed sandaime and survived in a life or death battle.and actually he didnt loose anything at all.
He did "lose" something he lost the war, not to mention his ability to cast jutsu. Last I checked winning a battle isn't as desirable as a winning a war. And no the question was "who accomplished whose goal", in which case Sandiame did.
I think Oro is gone. Kishi obviously got tired of him and wanted to move on to new ubervillains. Sasuke got off scot-free, with some BS "white snake healing" ability to boost. I don't think Kabuto has any part of his soul or consciousness either, Oro's power is just corrupting him. If he's taken over he'll probably just go more insane than he already is.
shadowyondaime
2007-09-15, 05:11
If naruto will be able to use the kyuubis power as stated in chapter 370 oro himself wont be a problem but maybe he brings something with him like an new enemy.
pizzajincuuriki
2007-09-15, 09:46
you know what would be cool?
if when Naruto uuses the key, he has to fight himself, with all of the kyubi's yin chakra at that Narutos disposal, and all of yang chakra at good naruto's control. I kno the team gai clone battle was so extremely lame that many people might not like it, but if they dont royally f**k this fight, it could be one of the greatest fights ever.
IMO
I wonder if all 3 of them will die as virgins :( (maybe the reason why Tsunade was sooo depressed for years and years)
Oro is definately no virgin. Ho knows what he did with Anko and this little girl he took the body from...and a lot of other women...I think Oro is that kind of a man...:uhoh:
So, after the latest chapter would anyone say Oro is completely dead, since that little snake got burnt? (Besides Kabuchimaru)
While we all know Orochimaru baody parts are taking over Kabuto body. When it fully takes over, I would like to know. What is the first thing you think Orochimaru going to do?
I think he's going to lay an omega smack down on Sasuke for beating him. Or at the end of the Itachi vs Sasuke battle. At the last sec he going to come and take over one of their body.
What you think?
I believe Orochimaru will become ultra-powerful. He will also have Kabuto's medical techniques, which are probably the most powerful healing techniques after Tsunade's. But since he is as persistent as a king cobra lol, he will either try to go after Sasuke or destroy Konoha.
neji-kun
2008-03-24, 13:19
He did "lose" something he lost the war, not to mention his ability to cast jutsu. Last I checked winning a battle isn't as desirable as a winning a war. And no the question was "who accomplished whose goal", in which case Sandiame did.
You seem to be Running Around The question yourself. Im gonna Go With Tatami. Oro Did not Lose to Sandaime Although The sound Lost To Konoha. Oro Won The Fight Simple As That Which Was the Argument in the first place your trying to turn it into and objective based argument which it is not it was simply a question of who won the fight. One Guy Died One Guy Lost His Arms. Ima Go With The guy that Lost his arms.
neji-kun
2008-03-24, 13:21
Not to Mention The Fact That He was Dominating the Entire Fight.
and he regained his arms too...
neji-kun
2008-03-24, 13:34
and he regained his arms too...
That too. Not To Downplay Sandaime, Cause well...hes Sandaime. He def The Shiznit lol.
james0246
2008-03-24, 14:07
Orochimaru won the battle but lost the war.
neji-kun
2008-03-24, 14:12
Orochimaru won the battle but lost the war.
Pretty Much Exactly What I Said Lol.
holypanl
2008-03-25, 08:38
No no no. We alllll saw very plainly what Orochimaru-sama would do if ressurected.
"SSSSSSSSSsasuke!!! I will now take your body with the all new Grossed Out Vomit-More-Than-Ever-Before Jutsu!! You cannot defeat MEEEEEEE!!! Kukukuhahaha!!!"
It's soooo obvious.
last time i checked:
kukuku i am free at last
noooooo endless genjutsu seal omgwtf nooooo....
AuroraFlash
2008-09-14, 09:05
last time i checked:
kukuku i am free at last
noooooo endless genjutsu seal omgwtf nooooo....
Yes, he had few seconds of screentime left on his account.
Orochimaru has been sealed away forever and I think he'll never, no he'll never return. His soul is caged away and in that other dimension, it will burn.
The story took its turn and Orochimaru is gone for good.
He'll never be back in the hood. His blood has been just like his skin.
He walked the line and the line was thin and now he's where no one has ever been.
I'd be surprised if he'd make it back because Sasuke is strong and his flames are black and if he glares at Orochimaru, he will poo-poo!
ShadowAssasin
2008-09-14, 15:14
Yes, he had few seconds of screentime left on his account.
Orochimaru has been sealed away forever and I think he'll never, no he'll never return. His soul is caged away and in that other dimension, it will burn.
The story took its turn and Orochimaru is gone for good.
He'll never be back in the hood. His blood has been just like his skin.
He walked the line and the line was thin and now he's where no one has ever been.
I'd be surprised if he'd make it back because Sasuke is strong and his flames are black and if he glares at Orochimaru, he will poo-poo!
He'll be back, "the man defies death itself." :) And, if Sasuke can use Orochimaru's jutsu to escape the black flames, I have a feeling Orochimaru can find a way to manage it. :)
james0246
2008-09-14, 15:32
He'll be back, "the man defies death itself." :) And, if Sasuke can use Orochimaru's jutsu to escape the black flames, I have a feeling Orochimaru can find a way to manage it. :)
Additionally, this is the man who escaped the seemingly inescapable Shinigami Jutsu (Shiki Fujin), so if anyone could find a way to escape Totsuka no Tsurugi/Sakenagi and it's "eternal" genjutsu, it will be Orochimaru.
Then again, the recent data book entry seems to imply that Orochimaru is gone for good. So, it is a bit of a toss up.
ShadowAssasin
2008-09-14, 15:38
Then again, the recent data book entry seems to imply that Orochimaru is gone for good. So, it is a bit of a toss up.
can you elaborate on that? Either way, I'd think that they would be careful not to give away the plot in these data books or, in this case, perpetuate the reader's belief in order to reinforce a hypothetical surprise?
AuroraFlash
2008-09-14, 16:00
Additionally, this is the man who escaped the seemingly inescapable Shinigami Jutsu (Shiki Fujin), so if anyone could find a way to escape Totsuka no Tsurugi/Sakenagi and it's "eternal" genjutsu, it will be Orochimaru.
Then again, the recent data book entry seems to imply that Orochimaru is gone for good. So, it is a bit of a toss up.
Orochimaru only lost his arms from the seal of the Death God. He would have been dead if it swallowed him completely. By changing bodies, a jutsu he had already completed, he got new arms because he only transfers his mind and controls a complete being. There were actually many different ways to regain his arms.
On the other hand, Itachi is a serious guy who used the sword that Orochimaru was looking for all his life. It is a sword from an ancient japanese legend and said to be the most powerful one, if I remember correctly.
Now his whole soul is imprisoned in another dimension and it has been such a short move because people had been struggling with Orochimaru for many many episodes and he was the fist super big villain who appeared and he has been sitting on his throne for quite some time. He had a battle with Jiraiya when Oro wanted to leave Konoha, another big showdown with Itachi or at least an attempt to take his body, then he faced both Jiraiya and Tsunade in a different fight and got away (surviving Tsunade's hard punch), he fought Naruto in his four-taled form and then he tried to overtake Sasuke who trapped him in his own dimension and still then, after having fought so many strong people and survived and escaping Akatsuki and having his name spoken in fear, he still survived and his body became part of Kabuto and his soul could still try to take over Sasuke after he ran out of chakra and at that point he had to be finished quickly because Itachi was exhausted and it was a funny and surprising, yet fitting end. Orochimaru was so strong and had so brilliant regenerative powers that he could only be finished in one blow.
james0246
2008-09-14, 16:02
can you elaborate on that? Either way, I'd think that they would be careful not to give away the plot in these data books or, in this case, perpetuate the reader's belief in order to reinforce a hypothetical surprise?
Specifically, the newest data book implies that the only "piece" of Orochimaru that is left, is whatever is found in Kabuto. The caption then goes on to imply that Kabuto will not be able to beat the "piece" of Orochimaru that Kabuto implanted inside of himself.
Orochimaru only lost his arms from the seal of the Death God. He would have been dead if it swallowed him completely. By changing bodies, a jutsu he had already completed, he got new arms because he only transfers his mind and controls a complete being. There were actually many different ways to regain his arms.
This was actually my point. Orochimaru found a way to escape the seemingly inescapable technique that freezes the opponent and proceeds to bind their soul. If Orochimaru can find a way to escape Death itself, it is possible that he can find a way out of an over-complicated genjutsu world (if Keanu Reeves can escape the Matrix, then I hope that Orochimaru can escape the Sakenagi :)). As to the specifics of his escape, well, maybe the piece of him that is found in Kabuto can act as an anchor by which Orochimaru can orient his mind/soul, and eventually find a way out. In the end, Orochimaru's attachment to life is by far the strongest we have seen in the series (the white snake symbolism partially proves this), so if anyone can find a way to escape the Sake Gourd, it would be are resident freaky genius.
AuroraFlash
2008-09-14, 16:18
This was actually my point. Orochimaru found a way to escape the seemingly inescapable technique that freezes the opponent and proceeds to bind their soul. If Orochimaru can find a way to escape Death itself, it is possible that he can find a way out of an over-complicated genjutsu world (if Keanu Reeves can escape the Matrix, then I hope that Orochimaru can escape the Sakenagi :)). As to the specifics of his escape, well, maybe the piece of him that is found in Kabuto can act as an anchor by which Orochimaru can orient his mind/soul, and eventually find a way out. In the end, Orochimaru's attachment to life is by far the strongest we have seen in the series (the white snake symbolism partially proves this), so if anyone can find a way to escape the Sake Gourd, it would be are resident freaky genius.
Wow, I can agree with that. Yes, maybe it is just a reason to get away from Orochimaru for some time. It's really been enough Orochimaru for now and there need to be other, new villains. On the other hand, there need to be new heroes aswell, that's why one after another, the old superiors are dying and the young ones ascend to powerful ninjas.
OtseisRagnarok
2008-09-15, 17:36
Wow, I can agree with that. Yes, maybe it is just a reason to get away from Orochimaru for some time. It's really been enough Orochimaru for now and there need to be other, new villains. On the other hand, there need to be new heroes aswell, that's why one after another, the old superiors are dying and the young ones ascend to powerful ninjas.
I still like the idea of Oro coming back. I also liked toying with the idea of him conquering Sasuke's body (non-sexually). Perhaps when he inevitable Naru/Sasu battle occurs, Sasuke will have no choice but to release the genjutsu from Oro, to access greater chakra reserves.
Gamma_Sennin
2008-09-17, 00:38
he will feature somewhere.. maybe we will see kabuto.. later on down the track... but i think oro becoming apart of kabuto is more symbolic of the relationship they had.. where kabuto is his tool to achieve his goals.. similarly the relationship haku had with zabuza...
Ichimaru
2008-09-17, 01:13
Its just not oro i want back, i want all the clowns sasuke has PNJ against them, these guys deserve to go out in a blaze of glory....
amOKchen
2008-09-17, 04:50
Orochimaru a loser? Did I miss something? He has lost against Itachi. But thatīs just because he didnīt know how to fight sharingan. Against Sasuke he "lost" because he was in a weakened state, sasuke stated that himself. And even now it isnīt sure if Oro really lost, or got absorbed on purpose.
Donīt forget, even Sarutobi said, Oro was the most talented out of the sannins.
I really like Orochimaru, heīs my favourite villain and has WAY more stile, than stupid Itachid for example, and he has the coolest anime voice ever.
I hope he is not dead, yet.
Shit, are you my soulmate :D
Orochimaru is the best villain ive seen in a long time, across many anime's and series. I was at a loss when they let Sasuke defeat him.
HiroInazuma
2008-09-17, 10:43
The moment I saw Itachi and Madara I realized that Oro is nothing those 2 are the most twisted connvining villains I have ever seen (in my heart Itachi is still the villain that mind f*cked his little brother just for the sake of it!) and Madara lived for over 90 years and he disguised himself as a retarded 20 year old Naruto, how evil can you get?!
This was actually my point. Orochimaru found a way to escape the seemingly inescapable technique that freezes the opponent and proceeds to bind their soul.
Also to take into account that the Third was already weakened and had a sword piercing through his abdomen...not to mention his age.
james0246
2008-09-17, 13:41
Also to take into account that the Third was already weakened and had a sword piercing through his abdomen...not to mention his age.
Okay. Itachi was nearly dead (his HP was like 5/100 :)) from Susanoo (which directly uses the users life force to stay activated), blind, sick, and incredibly weakened, with possibly half of his abilities given to Naruto. So, I would say that about equals Old Sarutobi with a sword through his stomach.
In the end, I expect this form of Orochimaru to be gone for good, but Orochimaru is a loose cannon, so he could do almost anything, and I wouldn't really question it (this is the man who turned his body into a giant white snake made up of smaller white snakes, so I am not about to rule out any possibilties simply because Itachi defeated him effortlessly).
OtseisRagnarok
2008-09-18, 09:16
Shit, are you my soulmate :D
Orochimaru is the best villain ive seen in a long time, across many anime's and series. I was at a loss when they let Sasuke defeat him.
And I have to agree with the basis for your post. Orochimaru allowed himself to be absorbed simply to stave off death. As another said: He has the strongest attachment to life of any character. Whether or not he will return is debatable, but I can only hope that he will.
AuroraFlash
2008-09-18, 13:25
Okay. Itachi was nearly dead (his HP was like 5/100 :)) from Susanoo (which directly uses the users life force to stay activated), blind, sick, and incredibly weakened, with possibly half of his abilities given to Naruto. So, I would say that about equals Old Sarutobi with a sword through his stomach.
In the end, I expect this form of Orochimaru to be gone for good, but Orochimaru is a loose cannon, so he could do almost anything, and I wouldn't really question it (this is the man who turned his body into a giant white snake made up of smaller white snakes, so I am not about to rule out any possibilties simply because Itachi defeated him effortlessly).
Oh, yes, yes. But he would have died from Naruto's condensed chakra blast and Suigetsu survived the same blast from Hachibi. Also, Suigetsu seems to have similar abilities concerning his body and he's a natural. I wonder if Suigetsu can be drunk by Sasuke to fuse powers. I admit that Orochimaru is a totally obsessed freak.
The moment I saw Itachi and Madara I realized that Oro is nothing those 2 are the most twisted connvining villains I have ever seen (in my heart Itachi is still the villain that mind f*cked his little brother just for the sake of it!) and Madara lived for over 90 years and he disguised himself as a retarded 20 year old Naruto, how evil can you get?!
Itachi is no villain, he's never been one. Have you ever seen him kill anyone? He might be a saddist, but he's no villain. He is calm and brave and he kills without emotion.Of course he killed his parents, yes, but didn't you ever want to do that? Hey, everyone has this phase when he wants to kill his parents and it was about time for Itachi. He just had the tools and gutts to do it.
I still like the idea of Oro coming back. I also liked toying with the idea of him conquering Sasuke's body (non-sexually). Perhaps when he inevitable Naru/Sasu battle occurs, Sasuke will have no choice but to release the genjutsu from Oro, to access greater chakra reserves.
You better watch out
you better not cry
you better not pout
I'm telling you why
He's making a list
he's checking it twice
he's gonna find out
who's naughty or nice
Yea he sees you when you're sleeping
he knows when you're awake
he knows if you've been bad or good
so be good for goodness sake oh
...Orochimaru is coming to town! :)
DECEMBER 24TH
Additionally, this is the man who escaped the seemingly inescapable Shinigami Jutsu (Shiki Fujin), so if anyone could find a way to escape Totsuka no Tsurugi/Sakenagi and it's "eternal" genjutsu, it will be Orochimaru.
Then again, the recent data book entry seems to imply that Orochimaru is gone for good. So, it is a bit of a toss up.
Wrong.....- Last time I was here, you were totally against Orochimaru returning and you were full of denial... what happened?
Oh and you're second statement is invalid... It says why below>
............
According to Databook 3, Orochimaru cells are floating inside Kabuto.
The caption leaves us wondering whether Kabuto will succeed in overpowering Orochimaru's cells inside of him or not. So yeah, Orochimaru is not dead. He is very much alive. His attachment to life is really really strong. We have NEVER seen fully powered healthy Orochimaru fight. We all deserve to see such fight and Orochimaru as a character deserves change to show all his top skills.
Kishi made Kabuto state "I never try to surpass my master" and then kept Orochimaru alive. Do you really think Kishimoto would have gone down the route of having Orochimaru`s presence partially take over Kabuto if he did not plan for Orochimaru to return. He would have killed Orochimaru for good if he had thought he has no use for Oro as a character anymore. When things with Pein & Naruto, Sasuke & Madara are done Orochimaru will return in full health and full power. Orochimaru is the symbol of REBIRTH! Recognize him!
Databook 3; Page 311
That ambition will never crumble!
How Orochimaru could cross over the line of death to achieve "rebirth". The source of his tenacity is power of the "white snake" which governs "good fortune and rebirth". After years of research, Orochimaru obtained the "white snake"'s rebirth ability.
Yamato No Orochi
Orochimarus biggest jutsu was named and explained fully in Databook 3. this jutsu is considered to be more powerful than Edo Tensei. Basically what it does is transform Orochimaru into Dragon/Snake God. Here is the full translation by Kumanari:
Jutsu: Yamata no Orochi
User: Orochimaru
Type: S ranked ninjutsu
Orochimaru, who was trapped in Uchiha Sasuke, used the last of his chakra as trigger to release this secret jutsu as his ultimate power. Emerging from the "cursed seal" using the "power of rebirth" of the "white snake" as its medium, Orochimaru transforms into a white snake with eight heads and eight tails. Just by crawling along on its belly scales alone demolished the Uchiha hideout, this is Orochimaru's biggest and strongest jutsu, and a representation of his enduring tenacity..!!
(Stronger then the godly Edo Tensei? )
Small caption on bottom of page 310:
It boasts a body that is bigger than the "strongest python" - the fearsome Manda, and a sinister face baring ferocious teeth. This is like a "dragon god" which surpasses the "great serpent"...!!
well, Oro just laughed after Susano`o did cut 7 head off, meaning he will only regenerate the heads (Dragon God technique). Something Manda was incapable of. Just Susan`o happen to wield an unexpected ability; physical wounds wouldn't work on the Yamata No Orochi inside of it, but something like the sword of Totsuka was its weakness. Which is perfectly understandable because no one has shown the ability to stop that sword. (Invisible and seals whatever it touches.)
The Hydra Technique is truly devastating. Stronger than any summon as it seems. Orochimaru seems to have a bigger role waiting. All this time Ive been absorbing so much trashing and bashing for supporting Orochimaru. My my!
james0246
2008-09-21, 13:04
Wrong.....- Last time I was here, you were totally against Orochimaru returning and you were full of denial... what happened?
Oh and you're second statement is invalid... It says why below>
First of all, I disagreed with you more over your assertion that Orochimaru was the 8-tails. As we have seen, that claim has been proven false. Secondly, if you will read my several posts in this thread, I say that the Orochimaru in Kabuto is probably all that is left in the Narutoverse (here is my quote: "Specifically, the newest data book implies that the only "piece" of Orochimaru that is left, is whatever is found in Kabuto. The caption then goes on to imply that Kabuto will not be able to beat the "piece" of Orochimaru that Kabuto implanted inside of himself."), and right now, that seems to be confirmed by the data books (which I have also said). Please read my posts before you accuse me of something.
To be fair, you are correct that I do not like Orochimaru, but that is more because I see him as a meer plot device, rather than an actual character, especially in Part II were he is the whipping boy of the Uchiha's and has none of the actual strength or power he possesed in the Sannin battle. But, simply because I do not like him, does not mean that I do not think that Kishimoto could not simply drag him back through some hax or another, in fact, due to his body etc, I almost expect it.
Well, at least you're honest about it... The reason why I'm not active here is because all the hardcore bashers who refuse to listen to reason, or even be free minded about the 'idea'. It's good you acknowledge the fact that it's fairly possible for him to return, unlike some other noobs..
I guarantee you, Orochimaru will be back... Databook also says "Hes ambition will never crumble." Why would Kishi create a character that presents "rebirth" itself, and then disposes of him? He needs to go down like the villain he is... I mean, Itachi being stronger then him or not is fairly disagreeable, but that scene was a huge PNJ.. There is no way Kishi would put to rest such a deep character like Orochimaru in thus humiliation and leave it be..
MidnightViper88
2008-09-21, 16:30
...especially in Part II where he...has none of the actual strength or power he possesed in the Sannin battle.
Kidding? That battle between Orochimaru and a 4-tailed Naruto wasn't an asinine display of power? Yeah, it ended in a stalemate between the two, but the proportions of that battle were beyond was was seen in the battles Orochimaru had against the 3rd Hokage and Tsunade/Jiraiya, where Orochimaru wasn't fighting as an S-rank missing-nin but practically as a monster...
AuroraFlash
2008-09-22, 00:06
Kidding? That battle between Orochimaru and a 4-tailed Naruto wasn't an asinine display of power? Yeah, it ended in a stalemate between the two, but the proportions of that battle were beyond was was seen in the battles Orochimaru had against the 3rd Hokage and Tsunade/Jiraiya, where Orochimaru wasn't fighting as an S-rank missing-nin but practically as a monster...
And that's what's still missing from Tsunade. We've actually seen nothing, not even from Tsunade. In the manga, we know what Orochimaru and Jiraiya can do, but from Tsunade we only know that one battle with the other two and I don't think that only because Tsunade was not handycapped, she is so insanely much weaker than the others. I can't believe it. The other two were so much special, I think that she's more special, too.
The other two were so much special, I think that she's more special, too.
I don't know, it's possible Tsunade simply became famous by asociation. This is Naruto, after all, and she is a woman...
holypanl
2008-09-22, 09:11
Orochimaru a loser? Did I miss something? He has lost against Itachi. But thatīs just because he didnīt know how to fight sharingan. Against Sasuke he "lost" because he was in a weakened state, sasuke stated that himself. And even now it isnīt sure if Oro really lost, or got absorbed on purpose.
Donīt forget, even Sarutobi said, Oro was the most talented out of the sannins.
I really like Orochimaru, heīs my favourite villain and has WAY more stile, than stupid Itachid for example, and he has the coolest anime voice ever.
I hope he is not dead, yet.
I support your post 100%!!!
And no, Ororchimaru is alive on 2 counts:
1)In Kabuto
and
2) During Sasuke VS Itachi, Just before Orochimaru was sealed by Itachi's Susanoo Sword, Orochimaru created a bunshin before the Hydra technique, in the form of a small white snake, and hid in a crevice. (ch 393 page1, panel 3)
t is confirmed that this is an independant resting form of Orochimaru when this snake, after the battle, peeks out the crevice, and displays independant will, uncharacteristic of a Summon Creature this small. Normally only larger sumons have independant, logical wills. See (chap 393, page 16 panel 5)
OROCHIMARU-SAMA LIVES ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm mean to make another fanboyish post but
Orochimaru won in the Sasuke VS Oro fight...I don't understand how anyone can oversee that..
AuroraFlash
2008-09-22, 12:10
I support your post 100%!!!
And no, Ororchimaru is alive on 2 counts:
1)In Kabuto
and
2) During Sasuke VS Itachi, Just before Orochimaru was sealed by Itachi's Susanoo Sword, Orochimaru created a bunshin before the Hydra technique, in the form of a small white snake, and hid in a crevice. (ch 393 page1, panel 3)
t is confirmed that this is an independant resting form of Orochimaru when this snake, after the battle, peeks out the crevice, and displays independant will, uncharacteristic of a Summon Creature this small. Normally only larger sumons have independant, logical wills. See (chap 393, page 16 panel 5)
OROCHIMARU-SAMA LIVES ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hahahaha :D
394 / P3 - 2nd and 3rd
Little snake clone went fwoosh, so there's only one last chance for Orochimaru remaining.
OtseisRagnarok
2008-09-22, 13:43
I don't know, it's possible Tsunade simply became famous by asociation. This is Naruto, after all, and she is a woman...
I couldn't agree more. Tsunade = fail simply because she doesn't have dangly bits under her pants... it's wrong, mean, and not cool, but it's the truth in this series.
APastelPainting
2008-09-22, 14:11
I couldn't agree more. Tsunade = fail simply because she doesn't have dangly bits under her pants... it's wrong, mean, and not cool, but it's the truth in this series.
Actually I think having dangly bit under her pants is a side effect of that jutsu she uses to look young.
OtseisRagnarok
2008-09-22, 14:15
Actually I think having dangly bit under her pants is a side effect of that jutsu she uses to look young.
:D
I didn't know Genjutsu had side-effects...
MidnightViper88
2008-09-22, 22:35
And that's what's still missing from Tsunade. We've actually seen nothing, not even from Tsunade. In the manga, we know what Orochimaru and Jiraiya can do, but from Tsunade we only know that one battle with the other two and I don't think that only because Tsunade was not handycapped, she is so insanely much weaker than the others. I can't believe it. The other two were so much special, I think that she's more special, too.
I think Tsunade's strong, but the opportunity to present herself hasn't come yet...After all, up until the Chuunin Exams section in Part I, who would've known that old geezer Sarutobi was actually still worthy of being called "Hokage" until he had to hold ground against Orochimaru...
The only difference Tsunade has between her and the other two Sannin is that she hasn't been the personal target of the enemy (Save for the encounter with Kabuto and Orochimaru)...Once someone targets her for assassination as Tsunade/Sannin/Hokage, I think then she'll shine...
AuroraFlash
2008-09-23, 01:55
I think Tsunade's strong, but the opportunity to present herself hasn't come yet...After all, up until the Chuunin Exams section in Part I, who would've known that old geezer Sarutobi was actually still worthy of being called "Hokage" until he had to hold ground against Orochimaru...
The only difference Tsunade has between her and the other two Sannin is that she hasn't been the personal target of the enemy (Save for the encounter with Kabuto and Orochimaru)...Once someone targets her for assassination as Tsunade/Sannin/Hokage, I think then she'll shine...
That's right! I don't think she's a Sissi. Kabuto stabbed his own hand because he knew she was frightened of blood. It was not even her own and in that particular fight, we've actually seen nothing of the Sannin. They all played with each other and I think none was actually determined to kill another, especially if we take other fights of Jiraiya and Orochimaru into consideration.
She was still chosen before Kakashi to be Hokage, wasn't she?
nine_tailed_kyuubi
2008-09-23, 15:38
After Itachi stabbed Orochimaru in Sasuke's fight at the very end we see one white snake escaping so Orochimaru survived and he will be back and he will be the biggest pain of the ass to deal with.
AuroraFlash
2008-09-25, 15:52
After Itachi stabbed Orochimaru in Sasuke's fight at the very end we see one white snake escaping so Orochimaru survived and he will be back and he will be the biggest pain of the ass to deal with.
Don't you get it!? That snake you mention died from Amaterasu!
Here, look at this again and again and see your snake DIE!!!!
http://img55.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000027216/03.jpg
MidnightViper88
2008-09-25, 16:08
I'm tired of these motherfukkin' snakes on that motherfukkin' panel!
*SLJ mode on Orochimaru*
I know the snakeīs dead, Orochimaru trapped inside Sasuke...but Oro is just of too big caliber to die such a pathetic way.
AuroraFlash
2008-09-29, 06:41
I know the snakeīs dead, Orochimaru trapped inside Sasuke...but Oro is just of too big caliber to die such a pathetic way.
Orochimaru is NOT trapped inside of Sasuke! Sasuke has no cursed seal anymore and Orochimaru has been sealed into another dimension. His last effort was to create a snake that hid unter a rock and when it came out, it was burned by Amaterasu. So that part of Orochimaru is dead as hell, burned by the flame of the goddess of the sun!
Yeah, right, he was sealed in another dimension...canīt remember every little detail about the story, sorry. :O
Still, heīll come back from that dimension, heīll find Kabuchimaru and will take over his body, itīs that easy !! ^^
Amusing how you try to convince everyone. :D
Nastya-sama!
2008-10-03, 16:04
Well, Orochi `ll turn up eventually. Kishi never puts anything in the story without a good reason for it. So, I don`t think that Kabuchimaru (lol for the name) will miss his last apperance on the stage of the Narutoworld before the end. And by that time, He`ll probably be 100% Orochimaru.
I get that Orochi was in really weakened condition when Sasuke attacked him, but to go down no-coming-back that easily? nah, don`t think so..
Well and lol, I`m sure Orochimaru will get himself killed soon after he comes back (something like in Sasuke-Itachi fight), but i`m anyways looking forward to seeing him again.
(ok, flame me now with HE-LL-NEVER-COME-BACK-YOU-NOOB stuff I`m ready and taking cover :p )
MidnightViper88
2008-10-03, 23:14
Well, there's a theory in real life that some part of a person's personality can be "transferred" through the donation of organs or tissues...Whoever receives the tissue or organ from someone will also inherit some of the donor's personal traits...Such as there was this one news story where this person had a liver transplant from an organ donor who had passed away, and before the transplant she wasn't even a baseball fan, but afterward, she began to become interested in baseball, and started to be a fan of the same team the donor was a fan of, even though the two people never met each other in person...
Since Kabuto has some of Orochimaru's cells inside his body and infesting the host, Orochimaru's personality may be "transferred" as well, on top of the obvious physical recreation...It may not be the Orochimaru, but it will be a reincarnation of sorts of Orochimaru (Like Galvatron to Megatron, if there are any Transformers nerds out there)...Orochimaru is something of a symbol of immortality through recreation, given that he's extended his life simply by swapping out bodies and turning himself into numerous white snake carnations...Just because the original source is gone doesn't mean another carnation out there will continue to manifest and exist...
Nastya-sama!
2008-10-04, 06:34
yeah, i believe he will take Kabuto over.and i dont think that Kabuto will try to avoid that,him being such a hard core Orochi fan.
Orochimaru made himself almost immortal, shedding bodies like skins..at the end, we saw living bits of him, all over the manga (body that Sasuke killed, his serpent self, whatever Kabuto took, body that emerged from Sasu in Uchiha fight and than the white snake..)
I don`t even try to get which one is the real Orochimaru, and don`t really think that there is final answer to it, and that`s kinda cool. :)
btw, MidnightViper88, that poor girl on your avatar will get sick or sth if she soon doesn`t stop eating :heh:
OtseisRagnarok
2008-10-04, 13:08
yeah, i believe he will take Kabuto over.and i dont think that Kabuto will try to avoid that,him being such a hard core Orochi fan.
Orochi fan.... ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!
It was hinted at numerous times during the chunin exam arc that Kabuto was planning to betray him, including one moment where oro said it flat-out.
Nastya-sama!
2008-10-04, 19:17
Orochi fan.... ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!
It was hinted at numerous times during the chunin exam arc that Kabuto was planning to betray him, including one moment where oro said it flat-out.
Yes, i am serious. :)
During the time when Orochimaru was alive it really wasn`t clear on whose side Kabuto was. To me, the relationship of those two characters was pretty interesting to watch because it was always uncertain what Kabuto really thought of Orochimaru. There were hints that he would betray Orochi (and, yeah, i remember Orochi saying that openly to Kabuto), there were couple of twists in the story where it seemed like Kabuto really had betrayed him (like when he stopped Tsunade or when it was said that he was Sasori`s spy..), and above all , Kabuto was shown as a cold, calculated, two-faced, silver tongued guy who was constantly changing sides to fit his goals.
But, now, having seen all, I don`t think that he wasn`t truly loyal to Orochimaru. To put aside that Kabuto put his life on the line many times because of Oro (that could have been because he expected some gain), but he openly offered his life and his body to him when it was too late to use Sasuke`s. To me, the second proof was Kabuto`s crazy enthusiasm about having sth so special in him or whatever he said, after implanting Orochimaru `s cells.Well, he spoke like a true fan,lol.(ch 356) Not to mention the fact that he willingly put living bits of Orochimaru into his body, knowing that Orochi will probably take him over!
And the fact is, after all that they`ve been through, Kabuto never did betray Orochimaru, but was his more than reliable right hand all the time. Kabuto`s words(after Orochi was killed): From a young age I`ve moved about cuntries and villages as a spy. To me things like countries, villages..they hold no firm reality in my mind. That was of course until I found myself under the wing of Orochimaru-sama.
Orochi fan.... ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!
It was hinted at numerous times during the chunin exam arc that Kabuto was planning to betray him, including one moment where oro said it flat-out.
Unfortunately that plot thread then got completely forgotten and Kabuto recast as an almost Houji-like Orochimaru loyalist...
holypanl
2008-10-04, 19:44
Hahahaha :D
394 / P3 - 2nd and 3rd
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Orochimaru -sama will unravel the logic of this world!!! He is the begining and th eend!!! I ...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OROCHOMARU-SAMA!!!!!
Although: tell me if yo agree: It would have been cool to see Orochimaru vs Sasori.
Nastya-sama!
2008-10-05, 05:43
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Orochimaru -sama will unravel the logic of this world!!! He is the begining and th eend!!! I ...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OROCHIMARU-SAMA!!!!!
Hmm, you pretty much summarized my attitude exactly toward that specific matter.
Hmm, you pretty much summarized my attitude exactly toward that specific matter.
Yeah, itīs just like in Digimon season 1 and 2.
Myotismon was defeatet in season 1, but surprisingly he turns out to be the final villain in season 2, too.
I hope Orochimaruīs going to pull a Myotismon.
Afterall heīs way cooler than Pain or Madara...
OtseisRagnarok
2008-10-05, 11:26
Yeah, itīs just like in Digimon season 1 and 2.
Myotismon was defeatet in season 1, but surprisingly he turns out to be the final villain in season 2, too.
I hope Orochimaruīs going to pull a Myotismon.
Afterall heīs way cooler than Pain or Madara...
That would be sweet!
And I still think that Kabuto shou;d be plotting against Orochimaru. I always thought of him as a double-agent possibly working for Konoha. Think how great that twist would be.
BlackNhite
2008-10-06, 10:23
And I still think that Kabuto shou;d be plotting against Orochimaru. I always thought of him as a double-agent possibly working for Konoha. Think how great that twist would be.
No, Kabuto would pull an Ocelot, triple agent!
I now humbly apologize for comparing the mind of Kishimoto with the divine perfection that is Kojima.
OtseisRagnarok
2009-01-12, 18:02
We really need Orochimaru to come back. He was the only decent villan in the entire series. The Akatsuki are failures when it comes to being evil, even more so for being interesting. Oro all the way.
Orochimaru is immortal,i hope he comes back honestly i like his character ;d
First he is going to i think get used to the body and refresh a lil ;d
And then prolly just kill people to kill time,like maybe destroy akatsuki if Naruto doesn't destroy it before him,or will just go and try take over the Leaf Village again ;d
Killer Bee
2009-01-13, 10:50
We really need Orochimaru to come back. He was the only decent villan in the entire series. The Akatsuki are failures when it comes to being evil, even more so for being interesting. Oro all the way.
You hit it on the head. I think Kishi meant it to be that way. Oro was probably the only villain shown being a badass during times when it wasn't some show down fight.
Also, I'm not sure Oro is a villain as much as he is a Darwinist. I think that it would have made for an interesting twist if Orochimaru would have taken over the Leaf Village and became Hokage. Not only would he have had intimate knowledge of Akatsuki and their goals but I also think that he would have pushed Leaf Shinobi to their limits to find new and twisted uses for their jutsu.
Too bad his lust for power and knowledge of jutsu made all that impossible.
yaluckyboy
2009-01-13, 12:56
I think that the Female body he showed the Third will make somekind of important part of the Plot. Maybe Kabuto/Orochimaru will split all the bodies Orochimaru once used into multiple seperate forms. (Kinda like the Six Bodies of Pain)
Either that or he forms his own team like Sasuke did with Snake/Hawk and start working on a specific goal of his own.
Kishimoto knew just killing Orochimaru again wouldn't suffice. Everyone would expect him to come back. So trapping him in an inescapable genjutsu pretty much takes him out of the story for good.
I don't know. A deranged Kabuto who has turned into Orochimaru physically doesn't seem as interesting as the old Orochimaru.
OtseisRagnarok
2009-01-13, 15:24
I don't know. A deranged Kabuto who has turned into Orochimaru physically doesn't seem as interesting as the old Orochimaru.
What? Just saying that aloud grabs more attention than anything else. Think about it, deranged Kabuto = interesting. Orochimaru = interesting.
Two plus two equals four, not three!
I don't know. A deranged Kabuto who has turned into Orochimaru physically doesn't seem as interesting as the old Orochimaru.
Exactly, thatīs why I think that Orochimaru will either take over Kabuchimaruīs body (maybe thereīs still a little snake somewhere, which has Oroīs mind) or Kabuchimaruīs personality will eventually be surpressed by Orochimaruīs, with all his memories before the latest events (Itachi-Sasuke fight for example).
OtseisRagnarok
2009-01-13, 15:31
Exactly, thatīs why I think that Orochimaru will either take over Kabuchimaruīs body (maybe thereīs still a little snake somewhere, which has Oroīs mind) or Kabuchimaruīs personality will eventually be surpressed by Orochimaruīs, with all his memories before the latest events (Itachi-Sasuke fight for example).
You're saying he'll come back without knowing current events?
Nah, I think he'd take Kabuto's memories for that.
Or maybe it'll be like Liquid Ocelot? Every once in a while, he'll switch back and forth.
Kishimyu
2009-01-13, 19:00
Hmmm.....maybe Kabuto will find a way to control Orochimaru's power?
then he can become uber powerful and try to avenge Orochimaru by killing Sasuke.....
heh, just a thought
Sinfully Naomi
2009-01-13, 19:26
I would love for Orochimaru to come back. He was the only villain who actually ated on anything seriously.
Other than Pain. But he's so lack-luster. I loved Orochimaru's sense of pride in when he was commiting his evil deeds.
That Other Ninja
2009-01-13, 19:29
He's gonna come slithering out of Kabuto's buttcrack and make a grand reappearance.
tensashinigami
2009-01-13, 20:05
Orochimaru is going back playing with his boy toys.. and girl toys. keep rumbling on about learning all the jutsus in the all. Why did he try to steal the Rin'negan from Pain?
That Other Ninja
2009-01-13, 20:10
Orochimaru is going back playing with his boy toys.. and girl toys. keep rumbling on about learning all the jutsus in the all. Why did he try to steal the Rin'negan from Pain?
He hasn't tried to from our knowledge. We haven't seen a flashback or verbal reference of him or anyone claiming he tried to steal Rinnegan. But I wouldn't put it past him to have tried, and failed. Hard.
james0246
2009-01-13, 20:13
@tensashinigami: With the Rinnegan, you only have the ability to learn all jutsus without elemental training (it is unknown how or if the Rinnegan makes learning a jutsu easier or not). With the Sharingan, though, Orochimaru could have simply copied any jutsu he saw (as so long as the jutsu was not Bijuu or Bloodline based).
That being said, I am unsure if that Orochimaru could have defeated Pain, so the Rinnegan could have been even more unavailable than the Sharingan. Or, Orochimaru need not have known about the Rinnegan at all, since it is unknown if he ever met Pain physically.
That Other Ninja
2009-01-13, 20:17
That brings up an interesting point.
Nagato knew Orochimaru. And they worked for the same organization for a number of years.
Was he or was he not aware of the orphan who he suggested killing when he and the other sannin encountered them all those years ago?
I swear Orochimaru is the middle man between all this history and Akatsuki/Konoha. He's been in the best position to bear witness to all these connected events from Itachi to Madara and Pain etc.
It's too bad he couldn't have become a more valuable resource for information.
james0246
2009-01-13, 20:54
^Kishimoto lost out on a lot of interesting story lines with Orochimaru, choosing instead to focus on the "deeper" villains (Pain/Nagato, Itachi, and Madara). I guess the Narutoverse is simply to 'gray' to allow such an obviously Evil villain as Orochimaru :).
That Other Ninja
2009-01-13, 21:29
Indeed indeed.
But his return is nigh inevitable.
We have faith. :p
ShadowAssasin
2009-01-14, 01:09
^Kishimoto lost out on a lot of interesting story lines with Orochimaru, choosing instead to focus on the "deeper" villains (Pain/Nagato, Itachi, and Madara). I guess the Narutoverse is simply to 'gray' to allow such an obviously Evil villain as Orochimaru :).
Many readers and viewers probably dismiss Orochimaru's goal as some tired old "I want to take over the world" cliche, however when I read him explain it, I didn't interpret it as that at all.
I believe we are all part of an ultimate all knowing entity (people like to call it "God") that "separated" itself so that it can experience itself; as knowing and experiencing are two different things. We (essentially "God") are here experiencing life and what it is like not being an all knowing and all perfect entity; I believe this is our purpose; also taking into account all life on other planets and realms (this is one way the universe can be described as a fractal, since no matter where you go, there is a recursive theme). The movie "The Game" (starring Micheal Douglas) is very similar to this concept, except each time we choose to play the "game" (live another life), we cause ourselves to "forget" what we are, otherwise, there would be no point.
When Orochimaru mentioned "I want to learn the truth about this world", I interpreted it as him wanting to understand the metaphysics of everything and consequently becoming the a "perfect being" once again (and thus remembering himself). I like to think that along the way, his mind gradually became decadent and corrupted by the knowledge(and not only ninja techniques btw ) he was gaining - which led to him carrying out various horrible deeds.
Anyway, I always considered his goal "deeper" than mostly all the other villain's presented thus far. At the deepest level, all of our goals are actually the same as Orochimaru's: gradually becoming a God as we learn (or rather remember) the metaphysics of everything. ...And then, doing it all over again when we finally get there - another way we can view all this as a fractal; and the fact that there are so many ways to view it as a fractal also makes it a fractal ;)
Interestingly enough, Orochimaru is attempting to do this all in one "lifetime" and that is a pretty plausible reason for his mind becoming what it is, since at our current state/level (as humans in this physical realm) our minds wont be able to handle or understand certain concepts; we can only properly assimilate them when we reach other higher planes after this particular phase is over, or our "death" (not unlike waiting to teach children certain things at "appropriate" ages).
Well, I like to believe this, even though the author probably had none of this in mind whatsoever during Orochimaru's creation lol. And Excuse all this text, but your paragraph just sent me into a tangent; I even completely stopped everything else I was doing just to this write it out :heh: This reminds me of how you get about someone commenting on One Piece, that horrible manga. (j/k of course. not really.)
Although I donīt exactly agree with your opinion on your view on the world (how everything works etc.), I would love Orochimaru to strive after such a "deep" goal, which is indeed the one goal mankind itself is striving after.
OtseisRagnarok
2009-01-14, 15:09
Although I donīt exactly agree with your opinion on your view on the world (how everything works etc.), I would love Orochimaru to strive after such a "deep" goal, which is indeed the one goal mankind itself is striving after.
That worldview was really a tangent of my personal beliefs... Damn. I should get to work converting people again.
james0246
2009-01-14, 17:02
@ShadowAssasin: You misunderstood my use of the word deeper (In restrospect I should have placed the word supposedly in front of deeper). By deeper, I meant mysterious, which is code for a "deep character" in the fairly linear Shounen Storytelling of Naruto. Specifically, Orochimaru always (to turn a phrase) wore his desires and motives on his sleeves, whereas villians like Itachi, (Sasuke...maybe), Madara and Pain are more ambiguous concerning their objectives and motives (they are far closer to the gray moral areas than Orochimaru's almost pitch black villainy). Consequently, while Orochimaru's desires might have struck at the heart of the human condition/nature (which is a discussion for another time), the fact that he was so obvious in his motives made him less "deep" (as a character) than even the (for no real reason) mysterious Kabuto or the other aforementioned villains.
CollectDust
2009-01-14, 17:55
I find Orochimaru boring. All he does is hide, or run away after short fight and send his minions to do work for him. He's kind of like Naraku from InuYasha. I wish they jump into the part where something REALLY happens or him fighting Akatsuki. [Sorry I never read manga so I don't really know what Orochimaru's really going to do with Sasuke and Akatsuki...]
tensashinigami
2009-01-14, 18:05
That brings up an interesting point.
Nagato knew Orochimaru. And they worked for the same organization for a number of years.
Was he or was he not aware of the orphan who he suggested killing when he and the other sannin encountered them all those years ago?
I swear Orochimaru is the middle man between all this history and Akatsuki/Konoha. He's been in the best position to bear witness to all these connected events from Itachi to Madara and Pain etc.
It's too bad he couldn't have become a more valuable resource for information.
That's very true. He had the most powerful doujutsu in the ninja world and he didn't even realize it. He didn't make the connection between Nagato and Pain. I'm sure he wanted them when he saw them, but he knew it was a dying-chance he would get them; especially, the guy who took out Hanzo. He decided to make a move on Itachi. Itachi was more forgiving than Pain would have been.
OtseisRagnarok
2009-01-14, 19:48
That's very true. He had the most powerful doujutsu in the ninja world and he didn't even realize it. He didn't make the connection between Nagato and Pain. I'm sure he wanted them when he saw them, but he knew it was a dying-chance he would get them; especially, the guy who took out Hanzo. He decided to make a move on Itachi. Itachi was more forgiving than Pain would have been.
And somewhat weaker... (supposedly).
I think Orochimaru is a tactician. If he knew about the Rinnegan, he also would've known about the fact that it would be impossible for him to take it. Or maybe the legend about the first Rinnegan user taking over, or something like that... (I think I heard about that, but I could be wrong...)
He didn't want to risk the ridicule of being a body snatcher getting his body snatched.
MidnightViper88
2009-01-14, 20:33
We really need Orochimaru to come back. He was the only decent villan in the entire series. The Akatsuki are failures when it comes to being evil, even more so for being interesting. Oro all the way.
Pain is probably the closest one, if not the only one, of Akatsuki who's really been able to match Orochimaru when it comes to remorseless actions, but given that we've only really known Pain for the last couple dozen chapters while we've known Orochimaru since practically the beginning, obviously our attachment will be geared more towards Orochimaru than anyone else...
Anyway, about this Orochimaru obtaining the Rinnegan thing...I highly doubt that Pain and Orochimaru would've crossed paths...Orochimaru never really mentioned anything about Pain and the Rinnegan but a whole lot about Sasuke/Itachi and the Sharingan...Orochimaru had already defected from Akatsuki by the beginning of the Naruto storyline, and Pain is a relatively new member to Akatsuki...Whereas everyone had already known of two Uchiha each with the Sharingan, even fewer people if nobody would even know of Nagato's existence, further kept from the public given by the fact that Nagato secludes himself while he controls 6 corpses out in the public...In order for Orochimaru to gain a bloodline limit, he would have to transfer bodies, where it would be difficult for Orochimaru to gain the Rinnegan given that the location of the real body Nagato is probably nowhere to be found by anyone, and the 6 Paths of Pain are all corpses, and I don't think Orochimaru can transfer into a corpse, where it could also be debatable whether the Rinnegan in the Paths are real Rinnegan or not...
james0246
2009-01-14, 20:37
^It is unknown if Pain was the Leader during Orochimaru's time, but it is generally assumed that the current Akatsuki (i.e. since the Kyuubi's attack) is led by the figurehead of Pain, with Madara controlling from the shadows.
MidnightViper88
2009-01-14, 20:44
Until we know the order of when each Akatsuki joined when, there's really a lot of ambiguities in the Akatsuki timeline, other than the few instances where we're given explicit facts during the storyline...
Point still stands, though; Even if Pain and Orochimaru did cross paths, there would've been a lot of things standing in Orochimaru's way in order to obtain the Rinnegan...The Rinnegan is something of a legend anyway, since we know of only one person in the entire Naruto universe that has the Rinnegan (And three others who know of Nagato's Rinnegan) while we could list off three named Uchiha and assume the rest of the clan as people who have the Sharingan...Everyone knows what the Sharingan is, but even if someone were to stand before the Rinnegan, what would be the chances they know what the Rinnegan is in the first place, let alone Orochimaru?
OtseisRagnarok
2009-01-15, 16:15
Until we know the order of when each Akatsuki joined when, there's really a lot of ambiguities in the Akatsuki timeline, other than the few instances where we're given explicit facts during the storyline...
Point still stands, though; Even if Pain and Orochimaru did cross paths, there would've been a lot of things standing in Orochimaru's way in order to obtain the Rinnegan...The Rinnegan is something of a legend anyway, since we know of only one person in the entire Naruto universe that has the Rinnegan (And three others who know of Nagato's Rinnegan) while we could list off three named Uchiha and assume the rest of the clan as people who have the Sharingan...Everyone knows what the Sharingan is, but even if someone were to stand before the Rinnegan, what would be the chances they know what the Rinnegan is in the first place, let alone Orochimaru?
That is another good point. But if Oro wants knowledge of all jutsu, I'd think he already has base knowledge of rinnegan's existance. Or maybe he's heard of it, but is unaware of it actually existing outside of legends.
Josh Uzumaki
2009-01-18, 10:44
i would like kabuto not to be taken over by orochimaru full, but have little spasms where he switches between, but kabuto can use his powers, but more advanced. part three kabutamaru vs sasuke naruto vs madara =]
OtseisRagnarok
2009-01-18, 14:09
i would like kabuto not to be taken over by orochimaru full, but have little spasms where he switches between, but kabuto can use his powers, but more advanced. part three kabutamaru vs sasuke naruto vs madara =]
That's more or less what I was saying with my liquid ocelot analogy....
Orochimaru had an unattainable goal (makes sense since he's a villain) and tried to do anything in his hand to achieve it. He's the only hardcore villain of the series if you think about it, Zabuza was friends with Haku, Kabuto wanted to find his own self,Pain wants world peace in his own way, but orochimaru was just a selfish cruel psycho, it would blow if he actually had a good side about him...and everyone shows a good side when they taste utter defeat!
So,final point, he won't be coming back, but maybe Kabuto can use his powers to expand his own medical ninjutsu and BECOME THE NEXT HOKAGE!
That Other Ninja
2009-01-18, 17:19
He's coming back.
kenjiharima
2009-01-19, 10:27
The author probably palyed to much MSG4 and watch Avatar! :heh:
Josh Uzumaki
2009-02-04, 10:04
the return of oro will be epic.
que the "naruto i am your father"
and that just makes it complete, he is my fav villian, just coz he is so twisted, and his determination to live and become stronger
Hopefully he does return because he was an awesome villian.
Hopefully he does return because he was an awesome villian.
Plus he had an awesome voice and theme.^^
It would also be kind of cool to have the first villain being the last one, too.
OtseisRagnarok
2009-02-05, 20:11
Plus he had an awesome voice and theme.^^
It would also be kind of cool to have the first villain being the last one, too.
His theme was great.
I don't really see him coming back, though. As much as I hate to admit it, he's become the walking punchline of the series.
james0246
2009-02-05, 21:29
^Next time Orochimaru comes back, Naruto can destroy him in one chapter :). It can become a right of passage for all the characters...
Yeah, kinda like the Frieza-Gohan in the Janemba OVA, had me lolling for days xD
But if Orochimaru comes back, I'd really like Sakura to beat him, the others are already far stronger...
he'll be remembered by all Michael Jackson fans.
Mr. Johnny 5
2009-02-06, 12:36
Orochimaru HAS to come back. He was in the Naruto series...the true definition of a villain.
He was soo evil and powerfull that most of the main characters were terrified in his pressence.
Kakashi has faced so many (stronger) opponents and still...the only one who made Kakashi piss his pants was Orochimaru. Kakashi needs to forget about the Rinnegan and take of Pains body. Or that of Madara.
His crimelist makes him in my book a super Z - criminal :p
# Killed his sensei (Sandaime Hokage)
# Killed the Kazekage
# Killed/sacrificed his own students
# Experimented on hundreds or thousands of people
# He never even cared about their lives
# Snakes!
# Revived the praised Shodai and Nidaime Hokage
# Responsible for the deaths 1000+ people
# Nearly responsible for a 3rd World Ninja War (attack on Konoha)
# Many of his victims were bloody teenagers!!
# Karin is one the results of his nasty crimes...her body is covered with bites and i think the (censored) manga covered most of the (uncensored) stuff
# Karin is one the results of his nasty crimes...her body is covered with bites and i think the (censored) manga covered most of the (uncensored) stuff
That's because it's how her ability works, people have to bite her in order to heal, it's not like she was surrounded by sadists :D
To add some points there:
# He created the curse seal virus
# He betrayed the biggest criminal organization in the world
# He is pale and seemingly immortal, giving him the look of a vampire (scary stuff!)
# He never regretted any of the things he did, even during his final moments
# He imprisoned god knows how many people
# He offered to kill a kid just because it was in his way.
# His little-girl-face is scary as hell
# He had been praised as a genius
# He controlled the most fearsome and powerful summon
# He was the mentor of the most likely next villain (after Akatsuki is finished)
james0246
2009-02-06, 16:33
# His little-girl-face is scary as hell
# He had been praised as a genius
# He controlled the most fearsome and powerful summon
# He was the mentor of the most likely next villain (after Akatsuki is finished)
I do not agree with the inbold text. Until the Snake clan puts forth some kind of Snake Senjutsu, Manda (well, he is dead, so who ever now controls the Snakes) and his gang of slippery foes are not the most powerful (nor necessarily the most fearsome). In fact, I expect Ol'Toad Sage could defeat Manda (if for no other reason than Ma and Pa can lift and throw Gama Bunta).
While it's true that snakes aren't the strongest summons, they appear to be the hardest ones to control (needs tons of snacks per summon and threatens to kill the user rather often).
Sorry, my fanboism took over again...however Manda was cool.^^
goldenarms
2009-02-15, 14:52
I woudlnt' be suprised if Manda wasn't the most powerful snake in the "snake world". I appears the author has simply chosen to leave that part of the story alone, if for no other reason than simple loss of interest. Perhaps he thought his delving into one animal summon world was enough. Elaborating on the snake world would have been interesting in my opinion however, they could have introduced a darker flavored faction of the "summoning realms". That "Manda" was an interesting character.
Yamata no Orochi is the most powerful (Non bijuu) Summoning so far.
james0246
2009-02-23, 15:45
Yamata no Orochi is the most powerful (Non bijuu) Summoning so far.
I don't think we can really say that. We never actually saw the technique do anything remotely powerful, it appeared and then quickly disappeared (due to Itachi), so it is unclear how powerful the technique actually is/was.
Honestly, Susanoo with full armaments is the most powerful "summoning".
But Susano-o isn't exactly a summon technique, there's no blood payment/scrolls etc. and it doesn't seem to be a living thing...right?
I don't think we can really say that. We never actually saw the technique do anything remotely powerful, it appeared and then quickly disappeared (due to Itachi), so it is unclear how powerful the technique actually is/was.
Honestly, Susanoo with full armaments is the most powerful "summoning".
Susano'o is rather spiritual type and it is eye based as I understood it. And yes we have some VERY impressive info in Yamata.
Databook 3. this jutsu is considered to be more powerful than Edo Tensei. Basically what it does is transform Orochimaru into Dragon/Snake God.
Type: S ranked ninjutsu
Orochimaru, who was trapped in Uchiha Sasuke, used the last of his chakra as trigger to release this secret jutsu as his ultimate power. Emerging from the "cursed seal" using the "power of rebirth" of the "white snake" as its medium, Orochimaru transforms into a white snake with eight heads and eight tails. Just by crawling along on its belly scales alone demolished the Uchiha hideout, this is Orochimaru's biggest and strongest jutsu, and a representation of his enduring tenacity..!!
Small caption on bottom of page 310:
It boasts a body that is bigger than the "strongest python" - the fearsome Manda, and a sinister face baring ferocious teeth. This is like a "dragon god" which surpasses the "great serpent"...!!
This explains why Oro just laughed after Susano'o cut it's head off. Meaning it's immune to physical attacks. Something Manda was incapable of.
james0246
2009-02-23, 16:50
^I know all of this, but still, how is Pain's Dog summon not as powerful? It can regenerate just as well, if not better than Orochimaru's technique, it is as large as the largest Toad summons (which were the same size as Manda), and it seems to feel no pain. It's not like Orochimaru used any ninjutsu or any real techniques after the transformation, in the end Orochimaru simply became a giant near-immortal multi-headed snake...much the same as Pain's Dog summon (it is near-immortal, and can have multiple heads if it so chooses). Consequently, I can't really see how it is the strongest "summoning" (it is Orochimaru's strongest technique, but that does not mean that it is the strongest, it simply means that of all the techniques at Orochimaru's disposal, this technique is Orochimaru's best).
(That being said, it is unknown as to what Susanoo exactly is. It is listed in the Data Books as being the natural extension/evolution resulted from the mastery of Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, but it is unknown as to how Susanoo is actually formed or what it is formed from. So, it may very well be an actual summoning of some sort, or, at least, if you count Orochimaru's Yamata no Jutsu as a summoning, then I see no reason why Susanoo cannot also be classified as a summon (especially considering that the language used in the data book implies that the construct is "summoned"/brought forth).)
- Imagine Manda against Pain's dog summon or Rinho... I can see a full battle without any of them having obvious supiriority over one another. Now as confirmed, Yamata is much more powerful then Manda. In which ultimately suggests Yamata being more powerful. I am making assumption because it is necessary and also very likely. And NO it is not as large as Pain's summonings. It is said to demolish the whole Uchiha hideout and judging by the picture it can be mistaken for one of the mountains. Remember how Naruto was able to throw a whole Rinho in the air?.. Imagine him doing the same to Yamata? Ridicules.
- I wasn't trying to imply that the Databook said it was officially the strongest.l I said evidences and hype was suggesting so. Unlike Pain's summonings Yamata seem to be the most hyped Summoning. And I do agree, it is somewhat a transformation but it is classified under summonings.
- Susano'o is eye based. And it certainly doesn't posses any physical form (beside the weapons it wields) so what els can it be?..
Orochimaru only summoned Yamata to counter Susano'o. It is unlikely for him to summon it if it was pointless against Susano'o. But it happens to wield an unexpected weapon.
james0246
2009-02-23, 17:16
Fair enough. I will admit a slight bias considering how easily Orochimaru's Yamata no Jutsu was destroyed by Itachi's Susanoo. I saw the Yamata no Jutsu as being a slight plot contrivance to free Sasuke of the Curse Seal and to give Susanoo an actual enemy to fight (to prove the might of the Susanoo technique), rather than the Yamata technique actually being powerful. I am honestly unsure how the technique would stack up against the summon creatures, and comparing the sizes does not offer up much actual information, especially considering how Fukusaku was undoubtedly equal in power if not actually stronger than Gamabunta (and as you mentioned, Naruto was able to easily throw a Boss size summon creature).
Alchemist007
2009-02-23, 20:08
you know...this thread title could be a spoiler itself once the initial Sasuke leaving Orochi's place happens in the anime.
Scorpian
2009-02-26, 01:08
- Imagine Manda against Pain's dog summon or Rinho... I can see a full battle without any of them having obvious supiriority over one another. Now as confirmed, Yamata is much more powerful then Manda. In which ultimately suggests Yamata being more powerful. I am making assumption because it is necessary and also very likely. And NO it is not as large as Pain's summonings. It is said to demolish the whole Uchiha hideout and judging by the picture it can be mistaken for one of the mountains. Remember how Naruto was able to throw a whole Rinho in the air?.. Imagine him doing the same to Yamata? Ridicules.
- I wasn't trying to imply that the Databook said it was officially the strongest.l I said evidences and hype was suggesting so. Unlike Pain's summonings Yamata seem to be the most hyped Summoning. And I do agree, it is somewhat a transformation but it is classified under summonings.
- Susano'o is eye based. And it certainly doesn't posses any physical form (beside the weapons it wields) so what els can it be?..
Orochimaru only summoned Yamata to counter Susano'o. It is unlikely for him to summon it if it was pointless against Susano'o. But it happens to wield an unexpected weapon.
so wait... Is it a summon, or is it orochimaru transforming? After the monster appeared, Orochimaru arose out of its mouth; so I don't understand how it would be a transformation since he was seperate from the beast. What exactly is this technique?
You know, this is one of my favourite threads, so Iīve gotta bring it up again.
One indication for Orochimaruīs comeback is that Kabuchimaru is after Sasuke, who now possesses Susanoo. The same technique that sent Orochimaru into another dimension, could also be able to bring him back somehow. Or maybe everytime Susanoo is used in battle, there is a slight chance for Orochimaru to free himself. With Kabuchimaru, the "real" Orochimaru would regain his "real" body if he somehow manages to escape his prison when Sasuke and Kabuchimaru clash together.
And hereīs a little of my fanboism, enjoy:
During the time Oro spent in Sasukeīs mind he could have also find out a way to counter the sharingan btw.. Donīt forget that Sharingan is the only reason he lost to Itachi back in Akatsuki. He still IS the strongest Shinobi in Narutoverse, weīve seen in action so far, on par with Jiraiya and Itachi, according to Databook 3
/edit:
Although I really donīt see a meaning for Orochimaru at this point of the story. Right now itīs all about Sasuke and Naruto surpassing the former generations, and then thereīs Madara...
Deathscyther
2009-09-28, 13:37
I still want to see an Orochimaru with sharingan eye(s).....maybe the one of Madara...that would be epic XD
KidKoolAid
2009-09-28, 19:47
I still want to see an Orochimaru with sharingan eye(s).....maybe the one of Madara...that would be epic XD
I was thinking about this earlier. I think having him return with one sharingan and a way to get another would be beyond epic. Oro was the shows best heel and should return as such.
New idea: after the current struggle, Tsunade seems to remain in a comatose state, and Kabuto appears, saying he can heal her through the white snake's regeneration powers...at the price of a piece of her soul to Orochimaru. Then, with every person Tsunade heals, the Oro-virus expands to the entire village and he becomes complete once again, overthrowing Danzou and becoming the rokudaime Hokage! And then Naruto returns to the village...
crack to be continued after I get my next dose :)
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