Higurashi Kai Episode 12 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Skyfall

2007-09-24, 11:47

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni Kai, Episode 12.

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Shiroth

2007-09-24, 12:00

Lets all have a "yay~"

I hope its clear that episode 13 shall air this Thursday as usual.

Christen

2007-09-24, 12:42

Lets all have a "yay~"

I hope its clear that episode 13 shall air this Thursday as usual.

I would doubt that since Tokai TV would skip episode 12 then. For now we can safely say that episode 13 will air the same time as this next week.

MarthX

2007-09-24, 13:08

KBS Kyoto has 13 listed for this week. They skip the episode to avoid screwing up their schedule. Kai is only supposed to run 24 weeks.

Nyao

2007-09-24, 13:46

KBS Kyoto has 13 listed for this week. They skip the episode to avoid screwing up their schedule. Kai is only supposed to run 24 weeks.

So they aren't showing 12?...

USCPharmacist

2007-09-24, 13:57

LOL they censored the OP (no blood + no billhook), crazy elevens!

kenjiharima

2007-09-24, 14:00

I'll wait for the dvd's like the last time I watched Higurashi. Before I get hooked to it once again.

Rias

2007-09-24, 14:05

Blood is still there in the OP, but the amount is less...

Also the Nata is cut out

justsomeguy

2007-09-24, 14:08

I don't suppose I can ask that any groups subbing this to fix the OP by splicing in an intact copy?

Klashikari

2007-09-24, 14:09

Ooishi and Rika are in his car, and they of course talk about Tomitake and Takano's deaths. Ooishi asks if she can remember of any clue about the persons who planned the murders, but Rika isn't able to do so. Considering her involvement despite being the Priestess of the Furude Shrine, Ooishi gives her invaluable information: Ooishi explains the coroners determine Takan's corpse "time" as 24 hours prior the festival. however, as everyone can aknowledge, she was definitely alive during the Festival. Rika is completely dumbstruck.
Ooishi wonders if this corpse happens to be a fake, that would mean Takano is alive, and lurking somewhere. Rika reacts immediately to this comment, asking if Takano is the culprit. Ooishi comments about Oyashiro-sama's curse.
At the clinic, Irie is desperate and doesn't understand why Tomitake and Takano were killed. Rika doesn't know and tells him that ooishi doesn't have a clue. She asks to Okonogi if he doesn't know anything.
Of course, Okonogi doesn't know, and reports some facts. It appears Irie might be suspected, but the later adamently ask what he would gain doing this. Okonogi tells Rika to not worry about it, as they will stick on their duty.
Rika and Hanyuu are sitting, Hanyuu says they couldn't prevent it after all. Then Rika says it is different now. She doesn't know if Takano is really the culprit. Hanyuu can't confirm, but Rika says she won't give up, ever.
Rika won't go school, and Satoko wonders if it is her fault. Rika assures her she has a fever, and she will be okay soon. Rika discuss a bit with Hanyuu. Hanyuu says if she dies, they can quickly go on another hinamizawa. Rika wonders if she saw something special in the "next" hinamizawa. Hanyuu argues she doesn't, but she says it is sorrowful to see Rika's hopes getting betrayed like this. She then receives a phone call from Okonogi.
Okonogi tells her Irie is the culprit. (kuromaku?)
As Okonogi explains the facts, Rika is shocked, but doesn't understand, and doesn't believe Irie is "kuromaku"
Rika calls Ooishi and tells him she is in danger and it might be the people who are after her.
Rika doesn't know whoever between irie or okonogi she has to trust. As Rika is still talking about her hypotheses and thoughts to hanyuu, she is interrupted by...
Satoko and everyone else. It appears she brought everyone, as she senses something is wrong, and they heard what Rika said. They are puzzled what she said about being killed, and ask firmly what is the problem.
Rika then asks Keiichi if he still believe he can beat fate. Keiichi answers affirmatively. Rika wonders if she should tell them, but Mion and Satoko disapprove what she is saying. Rika understands and will explain them what happens in Hinamizawa and what is happening with her life...
Rika begins to explain the Hinamizawa syndrome, a peculiar disease which is exclusive to this area. The subject can't discern who is his enemies or allies, then in the end, they die by clawing out their throat.
She explains a huge stress is a trigger to the madness.
She then explains Oyashiro-sama's curse.
Keiichi wonders how such disease can be like this, then she explains it is a biological weapon, and reveal the truth behind the Irie institute.
Meanwhile, Irie begins to explains his point of view to Okonogi, explaining he was thankful to Takano, etc.

Rika and everyone else are in her house, and she begins to explain the facts. In fact, the syndrome was done by some research for a bioweapon. This was of course under complete secret.
Irie was working on it, while the Yamainu was dispatched to assure the secret won't be exposed.
Rika understands they won't believe her but...
However, Keiichi downright says he believes her. He admits it is hard to believe it, but since it is Rika, he will do so. Rena soon says the same, and remembers something wrong with her during the school incident. Satoko begins to link it with Irie, and panicks when she is remembering the day when she saw her parents falling from the cliff. Rika quickly approaches her and pats her, saying it is okay, while Satoko is crying. She tells her she doesn't have to remember, and someday the time will come, but it isn't necessary now.
Rika begins to explain the worst thing of the disease is... herself.
She explains that she is the main carrier, as a descendant of the furude. She creates pheromones which ease the people of Hinamizawa. It is probably the reason why they treasure her. Keiichi says everyone should be infected and asks what would happen if she dies. Rika explains the legends of Onigafuchi will be realized, and everyone will turn into a demon, killing each other.
Rika doesn't know for what purpose the culprit does that.
Irie and Okonogi chat, and Irie hopes the culprit will be caught. A soldier enters and reports something to okonogi.
Irie wonders what's happening, then Okonogi tells him they found Takano. Then they will resume the plan.
Back with Rika and everyone else, they all deduce Takano is the culprit. As they are talking a bit happily, Rika is puzzled and surprised, as they believe her without any problem etc. Keiichi comforts her that they are friends/comrades and if they don't trust each other, it is the end.
While everyone are keep going in their chat, Rika is preparing some drink and talks with Hanyuu.
Rika receives a phone call from Ooishi, who will come soon. Rika is relieved and tell him to come quickly, as she has something to tell him.
Ooishi and Kuma are on their way, but stop as they see a man lockpicking something, and they are suspicious. Both are leaving the car. Meanwhile one of the yamainu men is talking with another one via radio. Ooishi arrives and wants some explanation about this late work. He doesn't buy the yamainu guy explanation, but then...
Ooishi is shot in the head by a sniper... Kuma has barely the time to realize it as he is soon shot in the head as well.
They are the first to fall...Puzzles pieces are sitching each other... for the horror.
Many truths lie in this episode, and it is well done.
The last scene of this episode was desperate, as i believe many people would say "don't go there!" until they see something to familiar...

Sterling01

2007-09-24, 14:18

God Dammit Takano What did Mr. Delicious do to you?

Even though I knew it was going to happen I was still shocked

MarthX

2007-09-24, 14:29

Ha ha.

One scene in the OP is cut out.

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/8167/1190661649742kz1.jpg

Rias

2007-09-24, 14:39

Another good episode, things are well spaced except the last bit. Most things are intact, but of course they cut out the small bits like mentioning Marco Polo Bridge Incident :heh:

It is kinda awkward to see the epsiode end at that spot...but at least it provided an awesome "brought to you by Geneon" sponsor message at the end :heh:

Next epsiode will get much more action than this one...I wonder how they are going to do that famous last scene to wrap up the story?

Klashikari

2007-09-24, 14:41

Last scene? you mean after the credit roll, and the insane 月（惨⇔賛）歌 ?
If it is, I hope so, considering how it is the pinnacle scene.

iczelion74

2007-09-24, 14:53

Lets all have a "yay~"

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Monox!de

2007-09-24, 15:19

harukamae

2007-09-24, 15:28

LOL Yeah, I thought something was different, I had to go back and rewatch the OP to catch it.

Oh man, was this episode worth the wait:

Nice way to bring in some of the puzzle pieces from Matsuribayashi and tie-in some loose ends! Game vets - was the scene or something like it in the Minagoroshi game, or was that just there to fill in things from the Puzzle Pieces?

Wonder what that place is where the guy was picking the lock - he did that in Yakusamashi as well...

Poor Big'n'Delicious! Why did they have to go and off him? All he wants to do is drop fresh beats in his air conditioned car.

Big thanks to the stations who aired it!

Mappy

2007-09-24, 15:37

I can't seem to find episode 12 anywhere. D; I tried seeing if the torrent was up yet, and it's apparently not...and I can't understand Japanese worth anything. xD;; So yeah...is it even subbed yet? o_o

Gawd, give people time. If there are any torrents, at all, there'd only be raws out. The translators actually have to see the episode before they translate it. ;)

phenom

2007-09-24, 15:51

Some images of the chapter 12

http://nov.2chan.net/24/res/1871190.htm

MarthX

2007-09-24, 16:42

We're lucky the first season didn't air this year. There's no way in hell episode 23 would air after all this.

sezen_atacan

2007-09-24, 17:13

Question: some of you say that one channel will show 12 and the other will show 13. So does that mean 2 episodes this week? 2 birds with one stone?

MarthX

2007-09-24, 17:24

If Tokai shows 13 this Thursday then yes we'd get two episodes this week.

That would make up for the hell of waiting for 12.

Rena Ryuuguu

2007-09-24, 17:43

lol they cut the cleaver scene?

Shiosai

2007-09-24, 18:08

Great Ep. The suspense is driving me nuts!

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5140/oishisnipezb0.jpg

Sterling01

2007-09-24, 18:15

I think I'll get GAR and gay for Keiichi during that scene next episode if they animate it the right way

Rena Ryuuguu

2007-09-24, 21:14

who has probably shot? i wonder
i can't wait for the next episode the trailer are so awesome <3

kingsky123

2007-09-25, 02:53

Yes They Aired It Woot

Christen

2007-09-25, 04:15

During the flashback scenes, Rena's rooftop scene was kinda off with the other flashbacks. Actually, I think some of these scenes were edited. They've probably changed all murder scenes with safer ones. Studio DEEN probably gave out the edited versions a bit late so that's why the first two station weren't able to air it.

Klashikari

2007-09-25, 05:09

not, the flashback of Rena from tsumihoroboshi-hen wasn't edited.

Christen

2007-09-25, 05:18

But then, there were no significant nata scenes. I was surprised they didn't put K1's bat scene there too.

Maybe I'm overanalyzing too much XD What's important is Higukai 12 is here.

Klashikari

2007-09-25, 05:40

the cleaver scenes aren't exactly significant either, as they blatantly show each character under huge stress.
That said, we will probably see in the DVD if they edited these parts or not. (not exactly important, since they are from the season 1)

Talking about "edit", Not only they changed the cleaver part of the OP, but the OP received a substancial better quality. I thought this is because of the Raw, but considering how the episode was (much like the rest), they indeed improved the quality of the OP sequence (the hair of each character is noticeably much sharp and lively)

well, for those who are too impatient for the subs, but doesn't load the raw, here are the screencaps pack with the bullet summary (not too different, some corrections however)
Episode 12: Screencaps and Summary (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/09/24/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-12-minagoroshi-hen-7-hinamizawa-shoukougun/)

EDIT: the preview is available, and seriously: don't watch it.
Not much of a spoiler, but it can water down the "shock" effect of minagoroshi.
One thing to say: while episode 12 is probably one of the most "budget" in either design and animation for the second season, the next episode will be crazy in sakuga and animation. no really, this will be GREAT stuff
BEST EPISODE of the series INCOMING !

Blick Winkel

2007-09-25, 06:49

I can't remember now, but wasn't Rena originally terrorizing the school with her axe while her first incident - not with the bat as it was shown in this episode? :(

Klashikari

2007-09-25, 06:56

No, it was a bat. (in all the 4 media)
Ooishi explained it in episode 3 of season 1.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa18/Klashikari1/th_020.png (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa18/Klashikari1/020.png)http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa18/Klashikari1/th_RenaBat1.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa18/Klashikari1/RenaBat1.jpg)http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa18/Klashikari1/th_RenaBat2.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa18/Klashikari1/RenaBat2.jpg)

Sterling01

2007-09-25, 07:48

Just got around to watching the preview. From what I saw, it looks great

They better not mess up the death order

MarthX

2007-09-25, 08:24

The preview for 13 is mouth watering.

z3phyr.mp3

2007-09-25, 08:38

just saw the ep 13 preview...
wow...
maybe it was the background music accompanied with the nico preview i saw or the amazing scenes in it, but this preview just makes me want to see ep 13 right now...

Ice Climbers

2007-09-25, 10:49

Well it wouldnt be a long wait, still comes out this week right XD ep 13?

cereal_killerxx

2007-09-25, 14:14

Are there any subs out yet? XD I think I'm gonna go crazy from waiting!

ayukanon45

2007-09-25, 14:29

so it was edited, damnit, now im gonna have to wait for the dvd

MarthX

2007-09-25, 15:19

It's just one scene from the OP. Who cares.

The previous 11 episodes have it unchanged.

Exilon

2007-09-25, 15:22

....one word.
WOW. LOTS of infromation on this episode. The pace was great (and that cliffhanger at the end was just foreshadowing the whole tragedy...). the only difference is that this time everyone knows who's behind it all and whill do their best to avoid it. I don't think the gang will go down without a fight. though I knwo they will all die (BAH), I'm still rooting they'll be able to do something more.. I don't know what, but they can't go down without a epic fight.

GO GANG!

Christen

2007-09-25, 21:33

I'm still wondering how they will beat fate in Matsuribayashi-hen since everything will reset.

The wait is killing me :D

joshualimm

2007-09-25, 22:45

so we've gone from killer lolis to loli killers? Noooo!!!! Don't they dare touch my higurashi lolis! Lol!

This episode was really cool. Quite chilling in fact. However, now (or last episode) that the culprit has been revealed,... I'm just not as shocked as I should be... no thanks to dang *game* players posting/commenting on *anime* forums/blogs. Though I can see why everyone's so excited. Higurashi is a great show. Definitely my cuppa tea. Sugar? no thanks, just a needle will be fine.

Nyao

2007-09-26, 00:25

I wonder if this is going to be the last arc, it very well could be,

cereal_killerxx

2007-09-26, 00:33

WTF man. How do you guys know what' going on in the episode? Can you speak japanese or something? No offense to anyone here, but everytime someone posts their impressions of the episode, it kind of makes me annoyed that I can't watch it yet :(

z3phyr.mp3

2007-09-26, 00:41

cereal_killerxx

2007-09-26, 01:58

^
some people, like me, download the raws...
that doesn't basically i understand everything they are saying in the episode...
but by listening to the voice work, and BGM and watching the animation you can basically get the feel of what you are watching...
and some nice people like, Klashikari provide us with the summary of the episode which fills in the gaps that were missed by the likes of me who doesn't understand much Japanese...

btw... the .ass file for ep 12 is already out...
I'm not sure if you were being serious or if the .ass was a pun on my part? Is the episode seriously out or are you messin with me -_-

On a side note, I was wondering why no one has posted a discussion for Nekogoroshi-hen special that Hauu~ released over a month ago? I just saw the episode and...
It was totally worth it to see keiichi in a dress (so hilarious) and also to see mion in that hot outfit. Also, I thought it was interesting to see that keiichi did have a brief vision about the events of Onikakushi-hen. Why didn't he say anything to the rest of them about it though? Oh well, guess I will never know.

SeventhHS

2007-09-26, 02:04

On a side note, I was wondering why no one has posted a discussion for Nekogoroshi-hen special that Hauu~ released over a month ago?

It's on the second page.

z3phyr.mp3

2007-09-26, 02:31

I'm not sure if you were being serious or if the .ass was a pun on my part? Is the episode seriously out or are you messin with me -_-

the raw has been out for more than 24 hours already...
and the .ass file is already out...

and just in case you don't know what an .ass file is it's the subtitle file... you either mux it with a raw or you can rename it to the exact name of your raw file except you change the extention to instead of .avi to .ass

i already used it to watch my raw...

if you don't want to DL the raw and the .ass file... it seems that philathropy has already released ep 12...
TT (http://www.tokyotosho.info/) is your friend...

cereal_killerxx

2007-09-26, 02:37

the raw has been out for more than 24 hours already...
and the .ass file is already out...

and just in case you don't know what an .ass file is it's the subtitle file... you either mux it with a raw or you can rename it to the exact name of your raw file except you change the extention to instead of .avi to .ass

i already used it to watch my raw...

if you don't want to DL the raw and the .ass file... it seems that philathropy has already released ep 12...
TT (http://www.tokyotosho.info/) is your friend...

Thanks you! I loves you so muches! XD And now that you mention, .ass does sound familiar. Seeing as there are dozens of different extensions for subs, it's to forgot one.

Happy watching everyone :D

Mashimaro

2007-09-26, 06:16

If the OP was censored/cut out.. does that mean the anime will have some cut out scenes? less blood?

kingsky123

2007-09-26, 06:28

is 13 coming out tommorow :3?

Klashikari

2007-09-26, 06:35

It appears Tokai TV really cancelled the series on their scheldule
http://www.tokai-tv.com/bangumi/
I can't find it anywhere in the timetable, so no, no Higurashi for tomorrow

There isn't any clue if KBS will do the same or not. Also, there isn't any confirmation if it is permanent or not (though it doesn't look good)

GyroidFanatic

2007-09-26, 07:12

The official site confirms that they aren't airing it anymore.

Klashikari

2007-09-26, 07:22

as far as i checked oyashirosama.com, they just said Tokai TV cancelled the episode for the 9/27, but they never confirmed if they won't air it anymore.
That said, 2 cancellations are quite ominous, considering the time slot issues.

As for KBS, it is still scheduled for the 9/29, at 2:30AM.
However, there isn't any indication if it is the episode 12 or 13.

MarthX

2007-09-26, 08:01

We're probably going to have to wait till Monday to see 13.

dspr8_rugged

2007-09-26, 08:30

I'm giving this episode a 10. Considering the wait and the drama that unfolded prior to this episode, and in the end, the wait was all worth it.

Anyway, the episode was a handful. Now everything makes a lot of sense regarding the madness incidents around Hinamizawa and how Rika is vital to the village.

And yes, one by one, they are surely falling...

champbaka

2007-09-26, 09:03

I know whats going to happen in the next episode, but still it just pains me to know I'm going to see the actual scene in animation T T

Matrim

2007-09-26, 09:32

and the .ass file is already out...

Post a link, please.

Klashikari

2007-09-26, 09:35

here you go ;)
http://rapidshare.com/files/58260449/Higurashi.no.Naku.Koro.ni.Kai.12.ass.html

FlareKnight

2007-09-26, 09:40

Too bad about Tokai TV, but long as other stations keep releasing the episodes guess we'll be alright. Going to be a long wait though for the next episode since now things are reaching their pinnacle. But anyways subbed episode and that is all that matters.

Good on Keiichi and co eliminating Ire as the guy behind it and putting Takano at the top. Really shows that having a few heads is better than one and paid off big time here. Though can`t even fathom how they are going to deal with this. Even solving questions won't do much if they can`t protect themselves from what is coming.

Kinda wish the Oishi shooting would have happened in other arcs since this one he was a pretty good guy. Heading out to help and sadly taking down 2 cops is not much harder than just killing off one. Since we have seen what has happened before a couple cops at the door just isn't going to make a big difference.

But regardless big revelations at least to Rika's relationship to the disease. Her very existence helps keep everyone from going out of control. So not really leaving the village but separating from her.

Cheezy

2007-09-26, 10:11

Is it just me or did the art style seem a bit different at some places?

Klashikari

2007-09-26, 10:20

Yep, like i said before and in the blog, the art in this episode was a bit inconsistent for various instances (geh, Okonogi and Satoko got shafted big time).
Quite the budget episode of the series huh

fear not, the next episode will be completely the opposite.

z3phyr.mp3

2007-09-26, 10:35

yeah... i noticed that this was a budget episode too... in some scenes they're just panning the same frame only moving their mouths... i just hope they blew their budget on the next episode and judging from the preview i guess they did...

i just noticed while watching this episode that rika and friends are all very smart and talented...
k1 is smart, charismatic and a quick learner...
rena is also smart and observant... as can be seen in the first season...
satoko is a master of traps... also observant of peoples behaviour seing as she always
gets the desired reactions from her traps...
mion is also charismatic she's also pretty smart to me...
shion also like mion.. smart and charismatic...
rika has the experience, she's also smart as she can make people believe in what she says... also deceiving oishi into sending some cops to guard her...

though it will obviously end badly i can see them putting up a good fight... they've got the brains and by pulling their smarts together can pretty much cause some problems to the yamainu... they also have the element of surprise as the yamainu won't probably expect a fight...

Kryptik

2007-09-26, 11:00

I have a few questions about this ep, mostly for those who already know the story.

1) Rika states that she is the one keeping the Syndrome in check, and that her death means the the Syndrome going out of check and out of control. However, from comparing the TIPs and also the past arcs, this seems false. Is it a matter of the anime running with uneven info from the original games, or Takano's purposeful misinformation again?

I don't know how this convo went in the games, so I'm not sure if Rika committed to that assertion like this as well, so...yeah.

2) From the subs I got, Rika talks about a secret organization called 'Tokyo'. Is this a mistranslation, or no? If it's accurate, is there some sort of different meaning behind the name separate from the city name itself?

MrZombie

2007-09-26, 11:40

as you can tell, Rika's death doesn't always signal mass insanity in the villagers. The theory is incorrect on that. However to see that it's wrong, Rika has to die and since she doesn't know what happens after she dies, she thinks her death always signals the end of the current Hinamizawa.

Matrim

2007-09-26, 12:02

I was somewhat disappointed that there was no Takano in this episode. Also, Rika's friends bought her story a bit too easily. Furthermore, I don't get it why this Tokyo group would want to use the disease as a biological weapon as it doesn't seem to be highly contagious. And how come Rika had never thought of Takano as a possible evil mastermind?
That said, I liked the episode and I am probably nitpicking because I'd have preferred to theorise some more based on less info. :heh: Talking of theories, I now need to come up with one explaining why nothing disastrous happened after Rika died in Watanashi/Meakashi.

Klashikari

2007-09-26, 12:08

1) that's because Rika and Keiichi was able to fight all the troubles more easely. the previous events in Minagoroshi was the factor how they could buy it, especially keiichi. And due keiichi charisma and the recent heartwarming moment after saving satoko, it is natural.
Not to mention Rika was right about Tomitake and Takano deaths

2) It isn't contagious, but as you can see, the effects are effective and quite unpredictable for the enemies. Traitors and gruesome deaths are fearsome weapons as not only they can disrupt the rank of the enemies, but they can also deal severe mistrust etc, leading to a chain reaction

3) Rika never thought Takano was the mastermind because she didn't have any clue. She NEVER knew the time of death was inconsistent. Ooishi gave her this information as she was reliable because of her involvement in the prevention

Matrim

2007-09-26, 12:29

Rika never thought Takano was the mastermind because she didn't have any clue.

Come on, if I were in her predicament, I'd suspect virtually everyone, and I'd venture most people would do the same. I am not saying she should have done like me and considered Takano a prime suspect but still it seemed implausible that she hadn't considred the possibility of that, knowing that Takano is pretty much the most informed person about the situation in Hinamizawa and its residents.

I am not saying they shouldn't have believed Rika but I would have preferred if they had showed some doubt at first but probably time contraints prevented the anime from showing something like that.

And yes, the syndrome might be a pretty effective tool but it's bound to be detected at some point. It is useful, if you want to cease power by eliminating your opponents, but it seems to be it would almost useless in a war, that's why I was surprised that some militaristic faction (I am assuming that since Biological Weapons Convention was mentioned) was so interested in it. Then again, most such factions do not tend to be that rational. :)

Shiroth

2007-09-26, 12:35

fear not, the next episode will be completely the opposite.
I'm hoping it shall be. Not only because i've heard so much about Minagoroshi-hen, just from watching arc, i can see that something insane.. something mad that i'm never going to forget happening in the finale part. I just hope it actually airs.

Still, i'll stay away from that preview this time.

As for that ending.. I actually can't believe he's been killed..

MarthX

2007-09-26, 12:55

Klashikari

2007-09-26, 13:07

Come on, if I were in her predicament, I'd suspect virtually everyone, and I'd venture most people would do the same. I am not saying she should have done like me and considered Takano a prime suspect but still it seemed implausible that she hadn't considred the possibility of that, knowing that Takano is pretty much the most informed person about the situation in Hinamizawa and its residents.
There isn't any way she would suspect Takano because she DIED.
Rika doesn't know Takano faked her death, she has nearly no possibility to know about it AT ALL.
How can you suspect a dead people, especially that her death and tomitake's are quite logic if the mastermind wants her life?
No there isn't any possibility, especially she doesn't have the time to get the clues about a possible plot from her.
And like MarthX said, Rika is important for Takano and Irie's research.

I am not saying they shouldn't have believed Rika but I would have preferred if they had showed some doubt at first but probably time contraints prevented the anime from showing something like that.
No, it isn't anything about time constraints.
See keiichi about fate? See how they believed her right away about Tomitake and Takano?
Now since the later event happened, no way it is hard to believe her.
Not to mention they know Rika well, and she isn't the type of girl to tell lies or silly things (and let's not mention they heard her saying she will be killed while she didn't know they were there)

And yes, the syndrome might be a pretty effective tool but it's bound to be detected at some point. It is useful, if you want to cease power by eliminating your opponents, but it seems to be it would almost useless in a war, that's why I was surprised that some militaristic faction (I am assuming that since Biological Weapons Convention was mentioned) was so interested in it. Then again, most such factions do not tend to be that rational. :)
Almost useless in a war? well, it is true it isn't convenient enough; that's the reason they were doing research so they can use it on grandscale and the like. if they can increase and control the growth for instant L5 on a spray, that would be an overkill weapon.

It is quite normal to think this kind of weapon is damn fearsome, especially it doesn't look like it is possible to trace, considering the coroners reports in the TIPS.

Sterling01

2007-09-26, 13:40

Just so people know the previews for episodes 14 and 15 are on nico

Kazuki_Kun

2007-09-26, 14:08

I watched the previews, but why two? o_o And why so soon?

Sterling01

2007-09-26, 14:18

They got leaked

But on the other hand Chibi-Takano is just so cute

HashiriyaR32

2007-09-26, 14:31

Takano = Kira?

MarthX

2007-09-26, 14:35

I wonder how they get leaked. Are they uploaded but not linked and people discover their url or what?

Mystearika

2007-09-26, 14:36

saw the ep it was great, this serie is truly my favorite,

aww small takanio is too cute, cant wait to see more about her, she is a really interesting person

Matrim

2007-09-26, 14:37

There isn't any way she would suspect Takano because she DIED.

No, she didn't.

Rika doesn't know Takano faked her death, she has nearly no possibility to know about it AT ALL.
How can you suspect a dead people, especially that her death and tomitake's are quite logic if the mastermind wants her life?

Well, then half of this forum are genuises because they (or rather we) suspected Takano ever since her convenient for faking "death". All I am saying that if I somehow get brutally murdered so many times, I would suspect everyone, including those I am not 100% certain that are dead. Also, the most obvious motive would be the knowledge that Rika is the "queen bee" of Hinamizawa which also points at Takano among others.

It is quite normal to think this kind of weapon is damn fearsome, especially it doesn't look like it is possible to trace, considering the coroners reports in the TIPS.

Well, it was detected during World War II so it's obviously not totally undetectable.

MarthX

2007-09-26, 14:41

Well, then half of this forum are genuises because they (or rather we) suspected Takano ever since her convenient for faking "death".

I'm pretty sure no one considered that a serious possibility until after episode 8 of season one. Ooishi told Keiichi that Takano was reported dead before they entered the storehouse.

Sterling01

2007-09-26, 14:45

I wonder how they get leaked. Are they uploaded but not linked and people discover their url or what?

I think that may be the case

Green²

2007-09-26, 15:05

LOL they censored the OP (no blood + no billhook), crazy elevens!

Might I ask anyone here, previously had these cuts been seen on previous episodes of that same network that aired this episode? (Opening theme specifically.) And are these edits being done by the animation studio, or are they being done and/or requested by the network itself? If the later, are there other networks that exhibit looser restrictions?

They're setting up a communications blackout? Oh Shi.... Rika, ...uh, hide.

FlareKnight

2007-09-26, 15:20

But there wouldn`t be any reason for Rika to know about the inconsistency concerning Takano`s time of death. The only information she would get is that Takano and Tomitake are dead. Only reason we could suspect Takano is because we have a wider area to look at than Rika does. She can only see her particular viewpoint. Now if all her friends kept their memories all the time they could bring up that inconsistency and she would have something to work with.

If your so centered on saving your friends and your life there is hardly time to be suspecting the dead. Not like she has the luxury of going around interrogating every single person from Ire to the milk man about whether they are connected to her death. Wouldn`t make sense for someone dead to be behind this since if your dead there is no point. It is a pretty large thing to suspect every single person including those you are positive have been killed by the one who is after your life. Have to play it in terms of likelyhood and the dead usually have a tough time going after people. Unless your a zombie or something...

Related to coroners reports. If they did not find anything easily it has to be a tough to track down issue. Only reason it would be found in WW2 would be related to having the resources and time to investigate this heavily. If that stuff is released in a heavy concentration you may not have the luxury of testing. But it is not something that you can completely hide if it was discovered in the first place.

Klashikari

2007-09-26, 15:26

No, she didn't.
For Rika, Takano "died", because she doesn't have the "information"

Well, then half of this forum are genuises because they (or rather we) suspected Takano ever since her convenient for faking "death". All I am saying that if I somehow get brutally murdered so many times, I would suspect everyone, including those I am not 100% certain that are dead. Also, the most obvious motive would be the knowledge that Rika is the "queen bee" of Hinamizawa which also points at Takano among others.
like i said, she has not the possibility to know the problem
The only time she got the information is in Minagoroshi-hen.
We, watchers, had the convenient third perspective, and watanagashi-hen was quite an alarm about the inconsistency.

But back with Rika perspective, she does NOT know it is a fake death and she has NO mean to do so, as she can't get information.
It is a result of circumstances that Ooishi told her.

Dark Wing

2007-09-26, 15:39

Just saw the previews and thought I should say this...Next Week: The Day The Devil Was Born!...:heh:

Matrim

2007-09-26, 15:52

Yes, this discrepancy with the time of the death was a big hint that Rika was not aware of, but surely Takano is very suspicious if for nothing else then because of the way she "dies" - why burn the body when there is a convenient swamp where it can be dumped? And we all know who can easily switch dental records. Easy to overlook it once, yes, but when Takano dies in the same fashion say 30 times, you really think it's implausible for Rika to suspect even a little that there is something fishy about that?

I'm pretty sure no one considered that a serious possibility until after episode 8 of season one.

Well, see the thread for episode six of the first season for instance, among all the twins speculations there are people who doubt that Takano is dead and whether she is a victim or a culprit.

Animaker9

2007-09-26, 16:16

Awsome, this was an answer-ific episode, when you put it like that, that strage paranoia was just the desease, Keiichi... why did you had to go to that funeral in onikakushi?!

But things are getting bad... I can't wait to see what will happen!!

Klashikari

2007-09-26, 16:36

but when Takano dies in the same fashion say 30 times, you really think it's implausible for Rika to suspect even a little that there is something fishy about that?
That's why Rika has done the rule Y.
Be it takano or anyone else, if the plan is still in stone, it will be the same all over.
if we imagine higurashi with... let's say a fourth character in the shadows, killign for real takano and tomitake, the result would be the same : same fashion over 20+.
These murders are the factors how she was able to figure "rules" and "strong will", as even with randomness, the culprit keep going.

that said, Rika doesn't have the third perspective and don't have the luxury to suspect takano as:
-Takano knows the risk if Rika dies
-Rika is her precious guinea pig, along with Irie's.
-Takano is a legitimate target if a said culprit want to kill Rika

Rika doesn't have any reason to have suspicions on takano, because Takano has almost every reasons to PROTECT her. Even Irie doesn't believe that, and only Tomitake has a glimpse of what she want to do, and it required the very last moment for him to figure out.

If Tomitake and Irie, the most close people and involved in both cure and biologic weapons don't have a clue, how Rika can know?
This is the reason how minagoroshi was important, since the "perfect world" still give her an answer, despite the failing point.

But again, it is quite illogical for her to be able to have suspicions on Takano alone

BakaOnna

2007-09-26, 16:43

Wow, that episode was amazing. Even though I read the Wikipedia summaries on the last two arcs, I never knew about the whole biological weapon issue.

I really hope DEEN pulls off the next episode. If they do it right, it'll be so epic.

Echoes

2007-09-26, 17:15

This episode was definitely, absolutely worth the wait. It was a thrill from beginning to end, this was one of those episodes where your eyes just stays glued to the screen. Without a doubt one of the best animes I'm currently following.

SSJiffy

2007-09-26, 18:47

Some thoughts: Major props to this ep. for clearing the theories behind the hinamizawa syndrome/sickness. I loved the sense of unity that has continued from the previous episodes into this between the gang. It'll be great (after seeing preview for ep. 13) to see how the group holds their own this time. And I have some questions to clear up some lingering thoughts:

1. Did it take anyone else up to ep. 11 to find out who the mastermind was? I had my suspicions after re-watching S1, but... I couldn't make a feasible theory. ._.!

2. Can someone clarify the roles of the Irie Organization, Yamainu, and 'Tokyo'? My POV: The Irie Org. is researching a bio-weapon version of the disease, the Yamainu is there to keep secret the research, and Tokyo is a group of politicians that sponsor the operations.

HashiriyaR32

2007-09-26, 19:00

I knew all along even before I started watching S1 that Takano was behind it (yay for spoilers)

GyroidFanatic

2007-09-26, 19:06

2. Can someone clarify the roles of the Irie Organization, Yamainu, and 'Tokyo'? My POV: The Irie Org. is researching a bio-weapon version of the disease, the Yamainu is there to keep secret the research, and Tokyo is a group of politicians that sponsor the operations.

That's pretty much it, except Irie himself is more interested in using the research to find a cure, and Tokyo consists of more than just politicians.

Matrim

2007-09-26, 19:53

That's why Rika has done the rule Y.

I know, I shouldn't have said "in the same fashion" since this is a given. My point was that as Rika spent tens of years trying to look for a way out of a horrible sitution one would think she would be bound to suspect everyone with the exception of her closest friends. Even the nature of the curse - one dead and one disappeared person points to something fishy about Takano's burnt body.

If Tomitake and Irie, the most close people and involved in both cure and biologic weapons don't have a clue, how Rika can know?

I never said that she should know, I said "suspect at least a little". And, of course, Tomitake and Irie can't recall the same events happening over and over unlike Rika and have no clue that someone keeps on murdering her. Let's just agree to disagree.

Anyway, who has any theories as to why Disaster didn't happen in Watanashi? I have some guesses:
- when Rika's body is not gutted and mutiliated it continues its function and supresses the symptoms of the disease even though she is dead. Sounds too unbeliveable and stupid even to me. :)
- for some reason the disease disappears when all the members of the Gosanke are dead. Also a very wild guess.
- It's not true that Rika supresses the disease. This begs the question coudl there be another reason for the disaster other than preventing the spread of the disease and the uncovering of the awful truth. If the Yamainu release the gas, why wouldn't they do it in Watanagashi, even if they know Rika is not really the "queen bee"?

*goes to rewatch season 1 in search of clues*

Sterling01

2007-09-26, 20:19

Takano couldn't find Rika's body

Jaden

2007-09-27, 06:15

Great episode!! Now I'm starting to see why it's called Minagoroshi-hen...they're gonna have a last stand at Rika's house! Dreadful, but I can't wait to see that.

that Queen theory Rika told about was already proved wrong in this thread, since nothing happened when, for example, Rika committed suicide at Shion's house. It also sounds really fake, 20 generations or so wouldn't be enough for a human community to evolve into some strange beehive-like system in order to counter a disease. Rena getting sick after leaving the village can be explained from the stress she got from family issues+things that happened in her school.

Takano researched everything about Oyashiro-sama. The real reason for Takano to kill Rika would be that when she's found with her guts torn out on the Furude shrine, it's going to put the villagers in panic because of their religion and unleash the disease. Still, it's strange that the villagers didn't react much when Rika died from plain murder. And it doesn't explain what's the point in unleashing the disease in the first place, or how the gassing happens.

Sinestra

2007-09-27, 07:57

Great episode especially since Rika admitted that she never thought of trusting her friends enough to tell them the truth. Even though im not sure if its part of the whole plot or not. This episode showed just how powerful true friendship can be. They believe Rika because she is their friend and to me that was touching. All the memebers of the group are pretty intelligent. Shion, Mion and K1 deduced fairly quickly that Takano would be the most likley person as the mastermind. They have shown several times when working together they can get results especially when K1 goes into GAR mode.

Iv also noticed that you cant stop some killings from occuring. I knew it was over for Ooishi when MIW asked for permission to fire, and sure POP capped right in the head. The problem being now that is one less ally for Rika and everyone else. They are definetly coming for Rika, it will be interesting to see if they can stop it. IF everything ends in disaster i cant see any other world getting better than this. But since Rika retains some of her memories from world to world. If the worst happens maybe she will remember that Takano is the culprit and will be able to take more decisve actions. Its sucks because even if they live they are pretty much stuck in that town forever unless Irie comes up with a cure and thats assuming he lives long enough to make one.

I will admit that the Hinamizawa syndrome would make a formiable biological weapon but it could also backfire as well. I dont think these military guys ever thought of the possibilty of it mutating outside of the Hinamizawa. Which could happen if its released in a new area. Over all i gave ep 12 a 9 out 10. I still have a ray of hope but im not holding my breath since we still have one more arc to go.

FlareKnight

2007-09-27, 08:19

Is pretty tough to keep some hope after all we've seen and since there are more episodes to come. Unless they decide to surprise everyone by solving it in the next episode. Then having a another batch of episodes about the peaceful life :).

Is a little disconcerting. I mean this is probably the best world possible. Even with this Takano information Rika will need to take care of any and all issues that arise like with her friends and losing it. Plus then figure out how to stop what is going to come. Oh well should be interesting regardless.

MarthX

2007-09-27, 10:16

KBS Kyoto's schedule now lists Kai 12 for tomorrow. Looks like we will have to wait till Monday to see the end of Minagoroshi.

NH1976

2007-09-27, 14:08

Hmmm for those who read the TIPS, didn't you notice that
She is supposed to be alone when her parents fall to their deaths.

Zeedox

2007-09-27, 14:56

Ooishiiiiii! Why? How could you out of all people be outgunned?

Kisuke06

2007-09-27, 17:52

Now this episode was really something. A LOT of things got explained.

Rika-chan is the 'cause' of the disease? I couldn't see that coming... then again, this is why I love higurashi. :D

And I can't believe Ooishi was assassinated! Damn you Tokyo!

k//eternal

2007-09-27, 18:06

So, I wonder if the whole "Queen" thing actually stems around Hanyuu, not Rika. I'd wager the "queen theory" and Hanyuu are closely related, either way.

Klashikari

2007-09-27, 19:12

todkapuz

2007-09-27, 20:53

yeah... i noticed that this was a budget episode too... in some scenes they're just panning the same frame only moving their mouths... i just hope they blew their budget on the next episode and judging from the preview i guess they did...
...

I was wondering if it was a budget episode... or if quick re-dubbing was done.... seriously i have never heard the audio quite this mix-matched... maybe it is just my copy ... but when she starts telling them about the truth... there are a number of cuts that dont sound right to me... example around 8:55 ... vs 9:04 That's my guess... is they quickly rushsd away and did a few modifications (the op, etc) to make it less harsh and more acceptable... :-( ... etc... I don't know... still feel sad that media can't understand the real meaning and message of certain series.

Davidj

2007-09-27, 21:12

The problem is Hanyuu cannot have any physical interaction with anyone.

Maybe, maybe not. But it doesn't matter. It's unlikely that physical interaction has anything to do with it anyway.

mist2123

2007-09-27, 21:18

TAKANO!!TAKANO!!TAKANO!!TAKANO!!TAKANO!!TAKANO!!

The next one would be really sad!!

ferthepoet

2007-09-27, 22:05

MarthX

2007-09-27, 22:21

given that this is supposed to be the answer for tatarigoroshi but I´m yet to see this point be addressed.... I wanna ask game players if we ever get a definite answer as to why Keichi friends were telling him he was with them when he was murdering Teppei

It won't be directly explained but you do have enough info to piece together the answer.

When Keiichi called Mion, asking her to invite Satoko to the festival, he was actually talking to Shion. Shion knew he was doing the same as Satoshi. She most likely told Mion and Mion had Teppei's body moved to a better location, just like she did for Rena in Tsumihoroboshi. Rena, Mion, and Rika pretended Keiichi was at the festival with them to create an alibi for him. Satoko thought her uncle was still alive because of Hinamizawa Syndrome. Rika explained that Satoko's disease can make her hallucinate and in the class room she believed the principal was her uncle.

Omfgbbqwtf

2007-09-27, 22:33

What the....Ooishi just died. FOr the first time if i remember correctly. Never really liked them in the past, but he is a pretty nice guy in this world, so...sigh. The situation seems pretty desperate now. Even the police can't do anything right now.

Mr Fist

2007-09-27, 23:00

Spoiler tagged just in case.

That final scene with Ooishi getting shot and killed in a way explains to me his disappearance in Tatarigoroshi.....right?

Trogdor Jube

2007-09-27, 23:08

Everything is so crystal clear now. Now all I need to know is WHY Takano is doing this.

todkapuz

2007-09-28, 00:10

Everything is so crystal clear now. Now all I need to know is WHY Takano is doing this.

There are still some flaws with this....

How does Rika KNOW that everyone in Hinamizawa will die shortly after she does.. she doesn't witness that herself that I can tell ... not to mention there are a number of people who have survived that we see in other hinamizawa.... most likely comes from Irie ... but he isn't the head of this... so he doesn't know for sure either... and obviously after reliving 1983 so many times with no success, Rika doesn't have many means to find new information.

Would seem to me that it is just a theory that 'Tokyo' has at this point in the time line (june 1983)... which explains who someone might want to push the envelope so to speak. I can even think of a possibility where Takano might even be the hero, in a certain sense...

Also leaves questions as to where it came from, and why the Furude family. And how does our favorite Rika side kick fit in...

But still even moer importantly, we dont know WHY Rika is forced to relive this over-and-over... she's obviously lost hope a number of times... and no one can believe that anyone would willing live the same month over-and-over... if she does manage to get by 1983 ... when she dies will she return to 1983?

Just like any good story... this has answered a number of questions, but raised several more.

Trogdor Jube

2007-09-28, 10:03

There are still some flaws with this....

How does Rika KNOW that everyone in Hinamizawa will die shortly after she does.. she doesn't witness that herself that I can tell ... not to mention there are a number of people who have survived that we see in other hinamizawa.... most likely comes from Irie ... but he isn't the head of this... so he doesn't know for sure either... and obviously after reliving 1983 so many times with no success, Rika doesn't have many means to find new information.

Would seem to me that it is just a theory that 'Tokyo' has at this point in the time line (june 1983)... which explains who someone might want to push the envelope so to speak. I can even think of a possibility where Takano might even be the hero, in a certain sense...

Also leaves questions as to where it came from, and why the Furude family. And how does our favorite Rika side kick fit in...

But still even moer importantly, we dont know WHY Rika is forced to relive this over-and-over... she's obviously lost hope a number of times... and no one can believe that anyone would willing live the same month over-and-over... if she does manage to get by 1983 ... when she dies will she return to 1983?

Just like any good story... this has answered a number of questions, but raised several more.

Thanks. You gave me a whole heap of speculation time.

Ice Climbers

2007-09-28, 10:20

MarthX

2007-09-28, 10:43

Someone leaked it on Nicovideo then others downloaded it and spread it to other sites.

yangxu

2007-09-28, 11:08

Unknown Voice: "HEAD... SHOT!! TERRORISTS WIN!"

Serenity85

2007-09-28, 11:13

Okay this might not be relevant but it kinda is so i'll put it here

Why is the preview for ep 14 and 15 out on veoh even before it is released on the official website??? (though the preview looks really interesting, especially hanyuu :D)

Anybody know?

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v12101057bXN3bGW
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v1210189kfA49GGk

Wow now I really wanna know why Hannyu's so pissed and by the looks of things we'll find out why shes tied to Rika and maybe more on Queen Bee Theory but first we need ... our massacre (gah it sucks knowing they won't make it but they better put up a good fight^^)

Matrim

2007-09-28, 12:08

It won't be directly explained but you do have enough info to piece together the answer.

When Keiichi called Mion, asking her to invite Satoko to the festival, he was actually talking to Shion. Shion knew he was doing the same as Satoshi. She most likely told Mion and Mion had Teppei's body moved to a better location, just like she did for Rena in Tsumihoroboshi. Rena, Mion, and Rika pretended Keiichi was at the festival with them to create an alibi for him. Satoko thought her uncle was still alive because of Hinamizawa Syndrome. Rika explained that Satoko's disease can make her hallucinate and in the class room she believed the principal was her uncle.

That does sound logical except for the bit where Keiichi's friends failed to inform him they were lying in order to create an alibi for him. It just seems to me this was added to create a bigger mystery but it's so very implausible.

But still even moer importantly, we dont know WHY Rika is forced to relive this over-and-over

Because it's preferrable to just giving up and dying, don't you think?

MarthX

2007-09-28, 12:24

That does sound logical except for the bit where Keiichi's friends failed to inform him they were lying in order to create an alibi for him. It just seems to me this was added to create a bigger mystery but it's so very implausible.

I used spoiler tags in case they wanted to figure out the answer themselves.

It seems they were planning on telling him at the dump. Mion told him he had to go and saying no wasn't an option. That would be an ideal spot to ensure nobody else overhears them.

Kryptik

2007-09-28, 13:02

The problem is Hanyuu cannot have any physical interaction with anyone.

meh, i'm done with the usual essay
Episode 12: Analysis (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/09/28/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-12-analysis-thoughts-and-random-comments/)

kinda short considering the good chunk of truth. hope i didn't screw like last week :heh:

Just a note on your essay:

Ooishi did give the time of death info out one other time than those three you noted. He informed Rena of the time of death as well in Tsumihoroboshi-hen, leading Rena to get paranoid about some kind of zombie or cloning thing, compounded by overhearing the authorities searching for her in the dump getting word that 'she was spotted by the grainaries'.

That does sound logical except for the bit where Keiichi's friends failed to inform him they were lying in order to create an alibi for him. It just seems to me this was added to create a bigger mystery but it's so very implausible.

I don't think they ever had time to before they had to spring it out to avoid suspicion on Keiichi. By the time it had all been done and they were about to inform him, someone came about questioning them about it, forcing them to spit the alibi out in front of an already paranoid and afraid Keiichi.

Matrim

2007-09-28, 15:09

I don't think they ever had time to before they had to spring it out to avoid suspicion on Keiichi.

Come on, the way it was presented in the anime, it seemed a piece of cake for one of the girls to wait for Keiichi in front of the school and inform him about the false alibi. Or do it quietly and quickly inside the school. As it happened, all Ooishi had to do was ask some of the other students, and if anyone reported that K1 was surprised that the girls claimed he had been at the festival, the case would have been pretty much closed.

changeup

2007-09-28, 15:22

Come on, the way it was presented in the anime, it seemed a piece of cake for one of the girls to wait for Keiichi in front of the school and inform him about the false alibi. Or do it quietly and quickly inside the school. As it happened, all Ooishi had to do was ask some of the other students, and if anyone reported that K1 was surprised that the girls claimed he had been at the festival, the case would have been pretty much closed.

The following is only a speculation

This series is famous for its manipulation of the viewer's perception of the world. Only the information seen by the main character of each arc was presented to the viewer, and we have no idea which was real and which was illusion by the character. Keiichi was obviously in L4 or L5 after his murder of Satoko's uncle. He would not have believed anything those girls saying to him because he somehow believed that it was a curse that caused all those inexplanable things. More than likely one of the girls told him that they were making alibi for him, but he (and all the viewers) had heard it otherwise...

Klashikari

2007-09-28, 15:45

This isn't only an issue with the delusions, but also a "subtle" way to not treat keiichi as a murderer.
Remember how keiichi asked Mion to make fall the curse on Teppei? this was rather an euphemism (and somehow rhetorical). Crudely, Keiichi could say "go order the murder, please".
The way how he tried to ask it was a way to not treat either himself or Mion as assassins.

This is quite the same. If the girls didn't try to explain to keiichi, it is rather a way to ease himself, as it might be quite a big deal if they begin to say "you killed him, but we will cover you".

In any case, considering keiichi's state, explaining the cover or not won't change anything.

Just a note on your essay:

Ooishi did give the time of death info out one other time than those three you noted. He informed Rena of the time of death as well in Tsumihoroboshi-hen, leading Rena to get paranoid about some kind of zombie or cloning thing, compounded by overhearing the authorities searching for her in the dump getting word that 'she was spotted by the grainaries'.

Oh yes indeed, the episode 25. My bad, i completely forgot the middle point of this arc *sigh*
thanks, i'm correcting it right away.

changeup

2007-09-28, 16:39

Ah, I think you also have raised some good points. If Keiichi was mentally sane at that time, he would have taken the hints the girls had given him. Anyway he was already at the level that he would consider everyone around him conspiring against him. What a sad disease that is... //sigh

This isn't only an issue with the delusions, but also a "subtle" way to not treat keiichi as a murderer.
Remember how keiichi asked Mion to make fall the curse on Teppei? this was rather an euphemism (and somehow rhetorical). Crudely, Keiichi could say "go order the murder, please".
The way how he tried to ask it was a way to not treat either himself or Mion as assassins.

This is quite the same. If the girls didn't try to explain to keiichi, it is rather a way to ease himself, as it might be quite a big deal if they begin to say "you killed him, but we will cover you".

In any case, considering keiichi's state, explaining the cover or not won't change anything.

Oh yes indeed, the episode 25. My bad, i completely forgot the middle point of this arc *sigh*
thanks, i'm correcting it right away.

Theo

2007-09-29, 00:49

A little bit off topic here, but I had a thought about Rika's suspicions of Takano. If Rika wanted to know if Takano was the true culprit, why not use Hanyuu as a spy?

I mean, she's invisible, she can pass through walls, listen in on conversations, and could report
back to Rika as soon as she heard anything damning on Takano or Irie. She's perfect for the job!

The Bloodlust Kid

2007-09-29, 01:22

SeventhHS

2007-09-29, 02:53

What if Hanyuu is limited in range? Such as she might not be able to go further than 100 feet away from Rika.

Doesn't fit with what happened to Rena in Ibaraki.

Klashikari

2007-09-29, 04:15

the problem with Rena is that she is so broken at that time there isn't any possible way to say if it was really hanyuu who stalked her.

GyroidFanatic

2007-09-29, 07:39

Guido

2007-09-29, 08:36

The dark secrets of Hinamizawa have finally been disclosed by Rika-sama.

This series is so beautifully dramatic because it is not the detective scope within the storyline that delivers the developments. No, the them aims about trust.

Amidst of a bewildered and tumultous setting of paranoia and distrust where conceit and apprehension lurk at every corner trust is tested to its limits.

I empathize with Rika for not wanting to drag everyone else within that swirling whirlwind of madness and death, but it was her concern and fears that finally made the Hinamizawa Scoobies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooby_Gang) to choose for themselves to heed and attend her call for help whether she wished for it or not.

The dark secrets were nicely and scientifically explained by the words of Rika.~nipa

Now another plot question continues to remain unanswered:
Why is Takano doing this?
Why she intended to kill Tomitake (and I must assume) and gave the order to kill Irie?
What benefit would she be earning with her executing "it"?

I knew it, finally, that the bitch was up to no good. Always ever suspect those who are kind with you that opened up just out of the blue.

Takano is a monster, the real monster.

Do Rika and the Hinamizawa Scoobies have no chance, if they have any to start with, now that Oishi and Kuma have been wiped off from this Hinamizawa?

If Rika was terrified and worried, why would not she had contacted for other allies? More people whom she can safely trust, for example, like Akasaka who came to visit Hinamizawa at the start of this arc?

It is so frustrating witnessing how the unscrupulous and amoral adults are winning.:upset:

Sterling01

2007-09-29, 09:55

Don't badmouth Takano she's just doing her job

Trogdor Jube

2007-09-29, 10:17

Im sure there is more to it then it just being her job.

Sterling01

2007-09-29, 10:59

I meant as a villain

Cardiac Glycoside

2007-09-29, 11:22

Truth be told, I've been waiting for Oishi to die. He gets off lucky too many times while everyone else gets the shaft.

But now that I've seen it, I feel kinda sorry for him....

Rias

2007-09-29, 21:17

There are reasons why Takano has to take certain steps in order to move on to her plan...actually they have already mentioned one of the influencial person's name in the 2nd season...kinda hard to catch unless you know the name beforehand :heh:

Hint: Something to do with the organization she belongs to

Mr Fist

2007-09-29, 23:08

Just out of curiousity, when will episode 13 air?

MarthX

2007-09-29, 23:19

Monday if it doesn't get delayed.

MrZombie

2007-09-30, 01:01

Monday if it doesn't get delayed.

I don't see why it would be. If done right it should be the most violent and hard to watch episode of the series. Why would they cancel it because of that?

Mystearika

2007-09-30, 08:17

i really hope they do not cancel it

i am looking so forward to it

its getting so exciting

FlareKnight

2007-09-30, 11:41

Can't wait for the next episode. Though since I expect the worst I really shouldn't be....Oh well hopefully whatever happens can give Rika something to carry forward.

LyricalAura

2007-09-30, 15:34

I was rewatching Tatarigoroshi with the local anime club last night, and there was this one line... It sounded completely innocuous the first time I heard it, but this time it sent a freezing cold chill down my spine.
TAKANO: Well, if it isn't Maebara-kun. Hello.
TOMITAKE: You two know each other?
KEIICHI: Well, um...
TAKANO: You still can't remember me? [giggle]

Maybe I'm overthinking things, but I can't come up with any possible interpretation of this that isn't really bad.

GyroidFanatic

2007-09-30, 16:13

Could I have a little more info on when that happened? I doubt it's what you think it is.

MrZombie

2007-09-30, 16:39

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're reading too much into that line.

Trogdor Jube

2007-09-30, 16:45

GyroidFanatic

2007-09-30, 16:54

I just looked back through the manga, and it looks like she was referring to when they met at the hospital.

Sterling01

2007-09-30, 17:42

Don't think too much into it

LyricalAura

2007-09-30, 18:02

Could I have a little more info on when that happened? I doubt it's what you think it is.

Original series, episode 10, somewhere in the middle. It was the wording that struck me as really strange. If she'd just said "You don't remember me?", that would be one thing, and would fit with the excuse she gave that they'd met in passing a couple times on the street. But what she actually said implies that she had enough contact with him previously for him to have given his name, and that he's forgotten her more than once. Given Keiichi's complete lack of recognition, I have a hard time believing she had that much prior contact with him in that arc.

Another thing that makes me suspicious is Takano's reactions last episode while she was talking with her subordinates about the burned corpse they subbed for her. When the Yamainu first told her about the time-of-death screwup, she seemed totally relaxed and unsurprised, and she sounded completely certain how the police would react to the discrepancy. The only thing that did throw her off her stride was finding out Rika had predicted the cause of death correctly (which she never knew about in any previous arcs), and it triggered a flurry of defensive moves on her part (increasing the Yamainu guard on Rika's house, trying to pin her down, and having Okonogi call her to plant suspicion about Irie). If it's just simple arrogance making her overconfident about the police, why is she suddenly and intensely concerned about a ten-year-old girl nobody is going to believe, who is going to be dead in 24 hours and doesn't know the corpse is fake anyway?

Again, maybe I'm reading too much into little things. But, I think it would give this arc a nice symmetry if Rika and Takano are finding out they're each other's opponents at the same time, and it would set up an epic confrontation for Matsuribayashi.

I just looked back through the manga, and it looks like she was referring to when they met at the hospital.

When did this meeting happen, and why did Takano lie about it if that's what she was referring to?

MrZombie

2007-09-30, 18:21

Sorry man, it's a nice theory and all, but she really was just talking about a few times they've met in passing. There is nothing deeper to it. Takano most certainly does not know about past worlds at all. If she did, she'd know that her theory was complete bunk.

As for what Rika told her, she was simply interested in the fact that she predicted it successfully. The fact that she's a scientist makes her interested in what could actually be something supernatural.

GyroidFanatic

2007-09-30, 19:22

When did this meeting happen, and why did Takano lie about it if that's what she was referring to?

Near the begining of the arc when Keiichi got sick from walking home in the rain. It was just a brief meeting, and Takano was in her nurse's outfit then, so it makes sense he wouldn't recognize her right away.

Animexcel

2007-09-30, 20:46

Man, that was interesting stuff there. Looks like ep 13 is gonna be big, wonder what everyone's fate will be, me having not read anything about it. :x

Mizuno

2007-10-01, 04:06

Klashikari

2007-10-01, 04:14

I thought at the beginning of this arc, Rika was still wondering who killed her and for what purpose. Suddenly in ep 12, she's explaining about the conspiracy of the "Tokyo" organization and that they're after her because she's a catalyst to trigger the disaster? Even if she put two and two together, she can also deduce something malicious was planned by Takano. How did she learn all of this about this war-crazed group all of a sudden?

1) Rika knew the Tokyo Organization were interested with warefare research. However, Irie demonstrated their prime objective was to find a cure.
2) Irie, Takano and Tomitare were obviously send by a governmental party, despite the shady aspect of the organization. Therefore, a genocide isn't exactly what you would expect from this kind of people
3) Rika knew this stuff from the very beginning. In Minagoroshi-hen, various hints demonstrated so: Irie, Takano and Tomitake obviously say she was a precious experimental subject.
Rika even said she was their precious guinea pig.

Moreover, Rika also knew that Satoko's injections weren't simple vitamins, as she even asked Satoko to not slack off with them in Yakusamashi

Finally, in the first season, Rika tried to use a syringe on Shion and Rena, obviously knowing it might help them against their L4-L5. Unfortunately, she is either not convincing or strong enough against both.

That stuff was hinted all over the series, even in first season, and it was blatantly shown in the start of both Yakusamashi and Minagoroshi.

the thing is: she perfectly know that the culprit must know about the disease. However, she doesn't know what the culprit would gain with that, which makes her stuck in her deductions.
Rika has almost no possible way to suspect Takano, as the hints about her are either outside of her reach (as she is actng suspiciously only with the "incoming madness" character) or AFTER Rika is dead.