Zero no Tsukaima (second season) - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating [Archive]

Pellissier

2007-09-27, 01:55

This thread is to be used for discussing the entire 12 episodes of Zero no Tsukaima - Futatsuki no Kishi (aka second season) ... your thoughts about the show, overall impressions, expectations and hopes about the DVD only footage etc.

A few subjects you might want to ramble on about:
General impression of the series.
Opinions on the overall story, writing & plot devices.
Thoughts about the animation quality.
Characters/Character Design

How did the anime compare with the manga?
Which kind of footage (DVD only) you feel you'd really like to see.
What the show meant to you.
What could the creators/animators/writers could have done better.
And so on.

The poll represents your total series rating. In other words, how you would rate all the episodes combined (1-10)? If you'd rather rate the whole series by technical/artistic merits, you can do so. An example:

Animation Quality: 1-10
Voice Actors: 1-10
Script: 1-10
Editing: 1-10
Emotional Involvement: 1-10

Average = Total Series Rating

Or a combination of the two. Or your general gut feeling.

Feel free to discuss and more importantly, have fun :)

mdauben

2007-09-27, 09:14

General impression of the series.
Sorry to say, but overall I found it disappointing. There were some exceptional moments of comedy and of drama, but overall it just did not even live up to the first season, let alone the source matieral.

Opinions on the overall story, writing & plot devices.
The story itself was too rushed, the pacing was off, and they attempt to cover too much source matieral in 13 episodes.

What could the creators/animators/writers could have done better.
They should have either (a) run the season for 24-26 episodes, and used the extra time develop the relationship, characters and storyline of Louise and Saito, or (b) they should have totally dropped the resurection of Wales story arc and severly cut down the Agnès story arc. The former really contributed nothing to the overall story, and the latter (while important as part of Saito's motivation) was not important enough to justify the amount of time that was spent on it.

Animation Quality: 1-10
I would give it a 6. It was good, but nothing exceptional.

Voice Actors: 1-10
I would probably give them an 8. Some good acting, particularly from Rie Kugimiya.

Script: 1-10
No better than a 3, I would say. This is where the series really fell down. The job they did of adapting the source matieral to the anime was terrible.

Editing: 1-10
I guess this would involve editing, but the crude juxtopositioning of the emotional content of the series with the comedy aspects hurt both (I am thinking especially of the final episode). Probably a 4.

Emotional Involvement: 1-10
At times I would rate it as high as 8 or even 9, at others only 1 or 2. Overall, I would say a 4 due to the poor pacing and mood breaking "comedy".

Average = Total Series Rating
Only a 5 or 6, I would say. Not terrible, but not particularly good, either.

grey_moon

2007-09-27, 23:14

I gave an average of 5...

I was able to marathon both seasons back to back and I really enjoyed S1 which made S2 really disappointing for me. The worst aspects of everyone's characters seemed overly exaggerated for example Saito's breast fetish given a ridiculous hormonal jab.

I just couldn't understand how ZnT S2 ended up the way it did, the idea behind the story and the characters were great, and S2 for me did ZnT no justification at all. Only when I read DarkNemo2000's insights of the novels did I realise that the animation company butchered what could have been a far more enjoyable series.

I just don't understand how a director sacrifices a good story line for some tit gags and some pathetic fillers.

Very very disappointed, wish I could read Japanese so I could read the novels to purify ZnT.

For me ZnT ended with S1, S2 was just a bad dream....

Uwashio

2007-09-28, 01:43

I gave it a one. It just seemed like an ecchi anime with a plot but bsed at the very end.

Darknemo2000

2007-09-28, 04:07

Anyone who bothered to read my previous comments probably know what to expect from my general overview of season number two. Without a doubt - it is very negative.

General impression of the series.

Very disappointing. Surely from the very beginning once I heard that it will be another 12 pathetically short season that will try to grab even more volumes than season one did, while being shorter.

But I didnt knew that it will be SO bad.

Opinions on the overall story, writing & plot devices.

It has very little real ZnT story just some jumping from one filler to another, giving us same lame perverted jokes without any consistency. It rushed from one end to another without giving at least one real direction.

Original novels are done so much better that it seems its almost a crime to compare those two, as it had the direction, had its own style that was not necessary based on repettative perverted jokes. Surely it sometimes also went overboard with fanservice but it never was nearly as bad as in anime.

What could the creators/animators/writers could have done better.

Everything? Well not really it had a few quite enjoyable scenes, yet the incredibly short length hurt the anime too much. Not to mention that the bigger half of the season was wasted on fillers or not really important sub-plots. Leaving only 4-5 episodes for 5 volumes of novels (as a original main story and plot). Thats kind of short considering that usually it takes 20-24 episodes for 4 volumes of a novel.

It should have been 24-26 episodes long at least, so that even with such talentless director as now, it wouldnt hurt so much. Or they could have cut all fillers out and reduced sub-plots like Agnes arc severely so it could give more focus on main character development and war itself.

Now all we have gotten some untalentated director jumping from one scene to another just because they look good or have fanservice forgetiing in between, and also forgetting the main plot line along the way. Thus leaving "jumpy" and rushed scenes in the very end.

Animation Quality: 7

Nothing fantastic but nothing that would make you cringe every second. I also watched Kaze No Stigma at the same time which for the bigger part had twice as bad animation (improved only in the end) thus this judgement isnt very precise.

Voice Actors: 8

Rie is still great. At least that.

Script: 2

Plainly bad... The best scenes were as a rule the ones that were left more or less unchained from original, while completely original scenes were rather plain, lame and repetative (perverted saito jokes, and Louise explodes on Saito endings are the best examples of those as they were not present in original source).

Editing: 3

bad work in general...They couldnt really work with original material that had a specific style of smoothly going from sad scenes to comedy ones. The jumps between sad and comedy scenes in anime felt out of place and were ruining the mood be it tragical or comical (best example - the ending of the last episode, really badly done).

Emotional Involvement: 5

Nothing much to add there.. i usually was rather bored during this season. The biggest exitement were - A) how much they will screw up novels this time and B) will it be Louise-explodes-on-Saito ending or something else (which was pretty rare).

It is stll Zero No Tsukaima so it has some specifical features that are attractive enough to be interested, but it was way too little. More so this eason felt like a filler episode season where the main role took a side character (Agnes) more often than the real main ones (Louise and Saito).

Total Series Rating: 5

It a below average for me. So far there have been only a little reviews that I read in japanese (didnt had much time to search) but 5 and 6 were the most common marks written for this season as I have noticed. So i will stay with majority and say that it was only an average or below average season.

I wouldn't recommend it to watch for anyone. Unless you have a lots of time to kill. But then again, there are much more better animes this year to waste your time on than this weak season. Or if you have really lots of time - just go and read novels. You will have much better time.

iamthebest22

2007-09-28, 09:36

I just find it hilarious, so 9/10 xD I always watch this anime after some sad and gory ones.

X10A_Freedom

2007-09-28, 16:30

Animation Quality: 6
Good, but nothing exceptional because the "average" animation quality of anime is so high anyway.

Voice Actors: 6
Again, good but nothing exceptional. Kugimiya Rie was good but most other anime leads also have good voice acting anyway.

Script: 1
Absolute rubbish. Especially Saito being a perv beyond help.

Editing: 1
Rushed, unsteady pacing. Lots of fillers here and there. Agnes arc isn't bad - what is bad is the time spent on it.

Emotional Involvement: 3
The poor rating is related to the editing. The series is just extremely shallow 90% of the time.
I even found Corbert's death scene shallow and unconvincing.

Now, ZnT actually has a very good and interesting story. Unfortunately, the way it was done was not very nice.

Overall: 4.

Sorrow-K

2007-09-29, 06:26

I'm rating this series as "average". It had a few great moments, like the dramatic scenes in the final episode (ignoring the crap in the final few minutes) and the culmination of the Agnes arc, ignoring the roundabout route it took to get there. The biggest problem ultimately wasn't that there was so much trite crap in this series, eg, the fanservice, Louise's tsun-tsun-tsun-tsun-tsun and a tiny bit of dere behaviour, the inability for Louise and Saito to make any progress in their relationship and pretty much every single scene where Siesta showed up... it was the fact that these scenes turned up right next to the moments that were intended to be the most dramatic. If ZnT could just separate the serious moments from the light comedic ones in the same way as its predecessor it would have been worthwhile. Instead, the comedy because formulaic and inane, and would spoil any chance we, as an audience, had of taking the plot seriously.

I still really like these characters, though, (except for Siesta who has become so pointless it hurts) and that's what saves ZnT from being a total failure, but Kou Yuu deserves any and every criticism he receives, because he's taken a great concept and a fun franchise, and ruined it. If there turns out to be a third series of ZnT and he's directing it, then I'll go in with minimal expectations, to say the least.

Kazuma77

2007-09-29, 07:26

its 8/10, some of the episodes were boring, but some were funny, interesting and touching:cool:

Computer_guy

2007-09-29, 09:55

The ending was just wierd. Whats with the fairy? I think that just ruined it. It should've of been something where he defeats the whole army and then comes home all wounded and what not.

rimaa

2007-09-29, 11:01

i gave 7/10, it was pretty bad compared to the first season but it had its moments

HurricaneHige

2007-09-29, 14:28

The ending was just wierd. Whats with the fairy? I think that just ruined it. It should've of been something where he defeats the whole army and then comes home all wounded and what not.

the fairy is some importance later on the story, remember this anime is based off the novel, which is still ongoing. The end of second season =/= end of story, the way they handled the ending was disappointing tho, should've followed the novel more closely and leave a cliffhanger ending, that would've made the series at least 2 points better :(

JagdPanther

2007-09-29, 19:27

i gave 7/10, it was pretty bad compared to the first season but it had its moments
Agree.

It was definitely a let down from the first season. Had it's moments, but the fan-service angle has never bothered me so much. It was just way too much of an attempt for fan service for me to take it seriously compared to how I dealt with the first season.

Too slow at times, too rushed at others...

Just a disappointment compared to season 1.

Joka

2007-09-29, 21:00

I gave this 2/10, because it was so shitty. This season was pointless and nothing got done. I am sorry for wasting my time on this stupid shit.

anti-random

2007-09-30, 17:12

Yeah, I'll give it a 5. Some of the script behind the anime was so poorly done. I could have done a better anime with what they could have worked with.

Pakxenon

2007-09-30, 21:35

My review of this was up a few days ago.

4/10: Poor. I fast forwarded through this thing so I could see what a hackneyed job they did of adapting the novels (yes, I have read Sushi-Y's excellent summaries from the AQS forums). Louise and Saito have not advanced their relationship one bit, even with that boat scene (one of the few highlights they adapted correctly), the villains are still not evil, Saito vs 70k was lame, and a slew of other things I was irritated with.

deathreape98

2007-10-01, 05:13

id give it a 3/10 probably only because of the occasional comedy

saito confessing and then fawning over other girls=bad
it being waaaay too rushed=very bad
the final scene=painful to watch
did louise even use void magic once this series? i think she used a dispel spell, but i think thats it
saito shouldve owned that army...
little movement in the romance=very bad

justsomeguy

2007-10-01, 10:35

4/10.
The excellent OP was wasted on this season. 13 episodes was short, but it was possible to fit 5 volumes had the director and scriptwriters been remotely competent. Unfortunately, they decided to focus on juvenile comedy instead of actual plot or character development, which I consider completely unacceptable. The first season actually did a reasonably good job of mixing plot and characters with comedy, so this was a bad shock.
My score comes mostly from the fact that this is the sequel (as bad as it is) to the first season, and "I Say Yes."

serenade_beta

2007-10-01, 23:29

6/10

Animation Quality: 8/10 Good. I especially liked the 70,000 battle, as short as it was
Voice Actors: 10/10 No complaints
Script: 4 Too much Agnes, not enough Siesta
Emotional Involvement: 7 Sometimes good, especially the beginning to middle of the last episode

This needed more episodes. Not only is it unfinished, but the show feels rushed after Agnes's episodes. Siesta was also severely ignored.

grey_moon

2007-10-02, 00:35

This needed more episodes. Not only is it unfinished, but the show feels rushed after Agnes's episodes. Siesta was also severely ignored.

Personally I think she was butchered in such a way that even Jason would have had a hard time beating.

I think S2 needs to be remade with a decent director who doesn't just think about tits 24/7. I got over that level of tit fetish when I went though puberty and I think the director seriously needs to have a few cold showers, or go through a gromitting before going to work again

Darknemo2000

2007-10-03, 21:39

Kou You still hasnt stepped over his puberty period... And he thinks that everyone are like him, and having the same tit-festsh as he .Which should make ZnT 2 a big hit. Sadly, its not the case, as some people do grow up. Surprise, surprise...

Maybe he'll grow up some day and will stop using breasts as the main plot device. Though i personally think, it would be better to just stop giving him any work connected to anime directing...

ZnT novels are originally a seinen - meaning for young adult. Its just anime lowered it to teens only...

Guido

2007-10-07, 18:35

Honestly, I did not want to bother to give my final thoughts for this sequel which turned out disappointing.

Last week the autumn season started, but, fortunately, for this thread I chose to pick very few titles in comparison to this year's previous season.

The main flaw why this second series failed was that they focused heavily on a newly-introduced character, Agnes, in order to setup the right timing and pacing to explore and study her background.

I also think that the episode where Henrietta reunites with Wales could had been used better, like had the briefly resurrected Wales could had told who is the true leader of the insurrection that is brewing at Albion and what her she is aiming for at short term.

Next, the sequel should had been better off without introducing Louise's family. Another excuse to setup more busty and cute female characters on the sidelines for the pleasure and needs of male otakus.

They should have used the remaining three episodes to dive deep into the schemes that Sheffield was devising, but instead we got to see more useless characters and more Louises' rants about Saito peeping at other girls' breasts.

There wasn't any instance at most of the episodes without Saito being fried or burst by Louises' spells for his sex-transgressions. Give it a break, he's a teen boy with healthy tastes.

I do really miss the precious characters that made the previous season very rich and engaging. It was sad to watch Kirche and Tabatha demoted to the sidelines, as well as Derrflinger (by far my favorite character) having limited participation in the remaining episodes. I really missed Fouquet, where could she have gone to?

The reason why this sequel was dissapointing I read was because they hired a different director to take charge for the second series, and likely I vote that to be one of the many factors that made the second delivery to go downhill.

Although not all is lost, this year is the year for Rie Kugimiya.

She has already voiced Louise, right now she's voicing Nagi Sanzennin which Hayate no Gotoku has entered its second phase of other 26 episodes for the next half-year.

And since last week Shakugan no Shana second series has started. We're hearing Kugimiya Rie in the role that made her well famous in anime, at least that's the case for me, making a comeback as Shana the Enpatsu Shakugan no Uchite.

Returning again are her peers from Zero no Tsukaima second season: Satoshi Hino: previously Saito Hiraaga, and now Sakai Yuuji again; and Ayako Kawasumi: previously Henrietta, and now Kasumi Yoshida.

The second title I concluded for the summer season.

Overall rating: 77/100

Akeval

2007-10-11, 23:08

overall i think this series should get a 5.5

the 1st season had gotten a 8 on my scale, but this one totally lacked the follow through of season one that i had hoped for.

the ending was pretty alright though, that perked it up just a bit.

still can't be as shitty as lucky star though

Darknemo2000

2007-10-11, 23:27

I cant comment on Lucky star as I havent watched it and frankly dont plan to do so. But ZnT 2 itself is clearly not the best product this year. Its the one that is somewhere oin the bottom line of this years anime's sadly.

And one of the worst JCC staffs works as well.

Every studio has their own ups or their own failures. Sadly ZnT 2 was one of those failures...

Kabitzin

2007-10-12, 11:39

I agree with the many responses that criticized the poor directing and pacing (http://www.seaslugteam.com/archives/2007/10/11/zero-no-tsukaima-2-review/). It is ok to mix up the chronology of events if it will make for a tighter adaptation, and to this end, I think that Agnes was over-emphasized at the cost of characters we actually care about. I think having a different team on season 2 led to a real disconnect between season 1 and 2, and I wonder if future seasons will be plagued with the same problem.

Darknemo2000

2007-10-12, 16:11

Well the first season has its own mistakes you know. The character personalities that they showed were too bright and dumbed down, this wasnt so bad as they took out all comedy scenes and made the show for kids avoiding any seriousness like fire.

However, second season didnt had those juicy comedy bits that were stolen from them (as first season raped all volumes taking best comedy scenes).

What second season creators had on their had - raped ZnT novels that had mostly the serious scenes left. They tried to make upo for that with their own original comedy but the Tit-jokes grew old fast just like Louise-explodes-on-Saito ending.

They were forced to use serious scenes now thus they had to show other personalities of the characters. The problem is that nor silly firs season characters nor more serious (well they attempted to make them more serious, but failed miserably, and they were actually even more dumbed down than in the first season) parts of personality connected into a single characters.

More so they had to exageratte some parts of personalities to make it funny. Like Saito's being a pervert or Louise exploding about almost every single thing. Sure, those are parts of their personalities in the novels as well, but anime focused on it too much make it rather one-sided characters all-together.

I guess ZnT 2 is what you get when you put mistakes of previous animation and very talentless (without any decent humour sense, i might add) director into one.

HurricaneHige

2007-10-18, 17:55

JC Staff not only dropped the ball, they basically threw an interception for the game-losing touchdown on ZnT2.

The first season, altho wasn't closely following the novel, was very enjoyable and characters were developed at a steady, watchable pace. The whole first season was very well done for anyone that did not read the novel, such as myself.

However, the second season JC Staff decides to turn up the fan service and repeat stale jokes done in the first season, even if the plot was decent if the line connecting the dots are not drawn properly it will, and did leave viewers wondering wtf just happened.

The ending for second season would've been one of the most dramatic, heart-breaking cliffhanging ending along side code geass from last year, but surely enough JC Staff can somehow find a way to screw it all up. How? by spoiling the plot from the next arc but not provide any additional information, ruining wat could've been a wonderful ending to the second season. Only after i read summaries for the novel did i find out wtf that was all about, and curses at JC Staff for blowing the game for us.

I hope they come up with an OVA ending like they did with Destiny(It made it better, still about 1000x worse than Seed tho) to correct for the mistakes and lead into the third season (should they choose to do a third one) and fire the current director's ass cuz he really needs to go back to film school.

Darknemo2000

2007-10-18, 18:54

One of bad things about ZnT 2 is not only following the novels closely, what is worse - it is not following the first season closely enough as well...

You get the felling that theres a huge crack between season 1 and season 2. I understand if they dont wish or are not able to follow novels closely enough, but they at least should be able to follow their own first season...

They did not follow first season nor the novels... In the end they created a VERY loose interpretation of Zero No Tsukaima with increased ecchi jokes, plain plotline, weird character changes and rushed ending.

JCC Staff really screwed up big time with ZnT2. One of the worst series that this studio has done up to date.

Though at times ZnT2 still manages to be enjoyable but those enjoyable parts come mostly from following novels closely. When their own interpretation begins - series loose all its charm completely. Sadly they did a lot of interpretation with this season.

holyman282

2007-10-18, 23:28

I agree, most of the zero no Tsukaima second season, was bad.. There were several good scenes offcourse, such as Saito Vs the 70000 soldiers.. That scene was actually quite emotional and brought a tear to my eyes... The good scenes are quite hard to find... Most of it was just boob jokes..

Anima

2007-10-19, 06:08

There were several good scenes offcourse, such as Saito Vs the 70000 soldiers.. That scene was actually quite emotional and brought a tear to my eyes... The good scenes are quite hard to find... Most of it was just boob jokes..
Well, if you knew how the novel handled that part, you would probably see how stupid the anime made it look :p :heh:

holyman282

2007-10-19, 06:22

Actually i do know a bit of how the novel handled the scene..

apparently before they finished him off derf used the magic he's been absorbing and makes saito runs for it hence saving his life. There were also comments made by the enemy of how honourable and strong saito is before they tried to finish him off...

Personally i felt the way in which they portrayed it in the anime was more emotional, it left first time viewers thinking that he died, rather then the stupid scene with the sword in the novel.

Favourite part would have to be when he was surrounded by the soldiers and their wands all lit up as the piano piece of Stay with Me reaches it's crescendo.. Truly quite emotional.. Loved that scene, only wished more of the anime was like that.

Rume

2007-10-23, 09:32

Certainly, this season does not live up to my expectation as I am expecting for a deeper/better plot. Though I'm not a reader of the novel itself, this season has been disappointing in bringing forward the plot and characters' development from season 1; from the anime point-of-view. Such as the drastic change in Siesta (Yes, it's drastic), and the increase of pervert-ness in Saito. Furthermore, there is just not enough screen time for the important plots in this season.

After going through the comments/discussions for this season, as much as I will like to see more of Louise/Saito, I do not pin for a season 3. As it has taken a comical-direction, I personally think it will be better to end it here once and for all, as what a normal comedy does usually.

Alas, I think I shall head for the novels, in order to understand and enjoy Zero to the fullest.

Oh ya, I give it a 5/10; at least, I can see some of the familiar faces and hear some familiar voices. Other than that.. hmm..

jouttex

2007-10-25, 12:08

7/10 for me.

WAY too many fanservice for Saito >_< And definitely not enough Louise!!

I was pretty disappointed because this season is far from what I expected, compared to 1st season. It's not a bad thing to focus on a larger scale and the new characters and all... but forgetting 1st season characters is a big NO-NO~~ >_< I was expecting more in-depth story about Tabitha or Kirche.. and what I got was only a few shots of them.

And the last fight was so lame that I really wished for Saito's death... >_< but well, I forgive the lameness the moment I heard Mamiko Noto's voice....

The good points of this anime were... um, the yuri fanservice? xD Comedy-level is ok, but still not as good as the 1st season~

Kugimiya Rie was awesome as expected, though.

shaolinx

2007-12-27, 06:00

So, I know that there was an epic battle in the novel but I was wondering how manages to escape/defeat their army forces in the novel??? The anime only showed us that he somehow manages to escape into the forest even when there was a huge horde of magic/arrow was cast upon him, which really made no sense at all... maybe it is a question to be answered in S3, but it doesnt seem that way...

yadango

2008-01-12, 22:40

i really liked it, but it needed to be longer and the tit jokes needed to go. the last episode there needed to be more than just a 30 second butt-kicking scene. tabitha and kirche really only appear in 2 episodes so character development kind of sucked. it had it's touching moments which made the series salvageable at least to me. but it could have been soooo much better...

heomap

2008-03-13, 17:22

7/10 I thought the second season went to fast!

aliasxn

2008-04-07, 13:29

Hum... I liked the first season better but I loved the second season too... The only thing I really didn't like was Saito's crises of conscience, I just hate this politically correct shit. It's ok to be against killing people, but would rather die instead?

incube

2008-05-08, 22:32

I see loots of disappointed posts... although i also felt that 13 episodes was too short for such this anime, i dont feel dissapointed at all. I really enjoyed Zero no Tsukaima, both S1 and S2. Yeah.. the story was too rushed and there was too much fanservice but as someone said, the comedy and drama was really good too. I hope they can make it better with the next season.

The ending of S2 would be strange in other animes but for ZnT it was expected xD It felt like a completely different anime from the marriage till Saito comes back to the academy... and then the "fairy's big breasts" was like a kick back to reality lol.

I really liked it how instead of ending things with a bitter taste i could finish S2 and wait for the next season with a smile.

Darknemo2000

2008-05-09, 04:42

incube

2008-05-09, 11:12

Well most of those posts come incube from the fact that when you compare anime and novels anime looses so much that it becomes painful to watch.

Have you read the novels? Considering that you enjoyed the anime I can guess that you didn't. Simple as that. Once you don't know what you have lost you are not grieving over it. Which actually helps to enjoy the series.

Anime isn.t all THAT bad compared to other anime's, yes its dumb and it is rushed with overdose of tit-jokes and fanservice in general but it's not all that bad in it. However, once you compare to how it is in the novels the anime does really start to look like a total crap.

I know that much... but the novel and the anime adaptation are two different things. There is no need to read the novel to enjoy the anime. If you really enjoy reading novels that much and the anime wasnt what you expected then just focus on what you like. There is no need to call "crap" everything that doesnt suit you.

Darknemo2000

2008-05-10, 01:13

incube

2008-05-10, 10:16

Well again I could say the same to every post which tells it is good.

Basically both sentences - "This anime is very good" and "This anime sucks" are the same, however you are trying to create double standarts by saying that negative opinion is bad and should be kept to the reader, I on the other hand can say the same thing about positive opinion, if you like it, keep liking but do not post on the forums how you like it... Silly, as the forums are based mostly on expressing ones opinion and sharing it with others, however you do not seem to realize that both positive and negative opinions are equal, thus have equal chances to be here.

Yes, it is annoying to here it called 'crap', when you like it so much, but on the other hand it might be annoying to hear it being called 'great' either.

If I like manga/novels why cannot I criticize the anime which is based on them? If the anime would have NOTHING to do with the series but the name (like True Tears) then yeah, it may be legitimate such suggestion, yet in ZnT case they are still having many things in common even if the anime turned out to be mostly a parody of the novels...

There is a huge difference between what your negative posts are doing and just objective opinions.... The only thing you might achieve is to stop the production of ZnT. That does no good to you at all but harm us, the ppl that actually enjoyed this anime and want to see more of it. What if someone says it is great? Just because someone likes what you didnt, that doesnt mean you have to prove that he is wrong and you are right.

What can you achieve with your meaningless negative posts? Just encouraging more negative posts till the production team decides to stop ZnT?

Im not saying this is the best anime ever but i still enjoyed it and hope for the next season.... i really dont care about how good the novel since im not going to read it anyways. If you liked it then good for you.

Darknemo2000

2008-05-10, 13:46

What I am asking you to give me a reason why positive posts are better than negative ones.

From logical perspective all I can see that both are equal as both are giving opinion.

You say that it may stop the production? The better for us, maybe some better studio will pick it up eventually, so you cannot say that the outcome has to be negative. One think it is bad, the other think it is good, so how can you say that one is necessarily bad and the other is necessarily good?

The fact is that you cannot. How is opinion "the anime is good" objective? How is your opinion objective. It is not, as it is just your opinion, just as mine is mine.

All that I am saying that my opinion has just as much right as yours even if it is the most negative of negative ones. Yes it has no objective value, but neither does yours. If you are saying me to stop posting my opinion because it is not objective then stop posting yours as well as it is not objective too.

And if you are saying that my posts are worser because it may make the studio drop the project..Again how can you tell if it is better or worse? Maybe it will turn out like Kannon great comeback if some better studio picks it up that actually pays attention to the original source. It is an open question and you cannot make such one-sided comments as yours.

What we are doing here is sharing our opinions..Have you ever seen ones opinion objective? Ever seen love or hatred objective? It doesn't happen as it is based on emotions and what feeling it gives you. It is always OUR opinions and OUR feelings about the show they simply cannot be objective, so don't rise this question here again, as simply none of opinions are objective.

And thats too bad that you don't read novels. You know books are fun, you should try them sometimes instead of watching films or anime. Sure, it is not classic like Goethe or Hugo, but hey, one hour with a book even if its not the best is usually worth of ten hours with films (there are some great films though, but they happen to be made rarely).

radioIzzy

2008-05-11, 23:32

Well... I haven't read the novel, so I can't compare it to anything. But from what I saw. It was enjoyable, even if many people say it isn't true to the novel.

I'm a little disappointed the the ending episode. It wasn't really funny anymore, I think Saito's breast gag was overplayed in this series. Especially at the ending.
Other than that, it was definately worth watching (=

Darknemo2000

2008-05-12, 01:51

radioIzzy, well again many people have different opinions. There even some who liked it despite reading novels too (though those are rather rare). Personally, I didn't like it because not that it isnt 100% true to novels (I think it is impossible) but because in my opinion second season is very silly with overdose of boob-jokes and poor (or rather rushed) story-line.

Mind you that first season wasn't following novels as well but I was pretty much OK with it as novels did not randomly changed characters personality (like in season II - Saito, Siesta) and though was more lighthearted than novels it still kept the solid enough storyline with some (barely visable) character development. In season II it doesn't happen, combined with a bad ending it really turns out one of the worst season for me personally.

Of course the frustration of knowing how good volume 8 was and that anime completely skipped it through (and no it is impossible to get back to it in season III) doesn't help either, however it is not the only reason I do not like it.

Some people think that this dislikeness comes only from the fact that anime does not follow novels but it is not true - it is mostly because anime is disappointing by itself.

And radioIzzy, ever thought of trying novels? It may look time consuming but it is very enjoyable so you might want to give it shot. Specially considering that it is free (once the licensed volumes will come out the first volumes will be taken out from Baka-tsuki site, so it is another reason why you could save it on your computer if not now then to read it someday in the future).

radioIzzy

2008-05-12, 19:57

Thanks for the insight.

I'm curious to how the novel is. It seems as though the novel is a lot beter, so I'll definately read it.
Thanks :)

Terminator98

2009-06-13, 03:08

Season 2... I found it very good. Why. EPISODE 12 IS FREAKING SAD AND EMOTIONAL.

Well... that was, until the end where they screwed up everything.

Darknemo2000

2009-06-13, 03:25

The first half of the episode followed novels, the second half - specially the ending was anime original, and considering that the team that JC Staff gathered for ZnT season's 3 and 3 suck big time, you should expect anime original be a crap.

Terminator98

2009-06-13, 03:27

I know that. :D

Sad that J.C messed up everything up. ZnT has so much potential. Why do people always mess things up... If ever season 4 goes out, I want another studio to do it... BUt I fear that Rie and Saito's/Yuji's voice actors won't ber here... They are so essential in the anime. :D

Darknemo2000

2009-06-13, 04:28

If there is a loli tsundere Rie will be there.

And JC Staff did pretty good job with Toradora so they are not hopeless (though the screwed up Toradora ending in my opinion). It's just that for ZnT anime they gathered a really shitty team that seems to be incapable to do anything that would go beyond repetitive boob jokes.

rg4619

2009-06-13, 22:00

If ever season 4 goes out, I want another studio to do it... BUt I fear that Rie and Saito's/Yuji's voice actors won't ber here... They are so essential in the anime. :D

As long as the same companies are behind the production, changing studios would probably bear similar results. Granted, the exact execution might differ (i.e. S1, 2, 3 were each executed differently despite following the same basic plan), but if the directive from the production committee remains the same, you can't expect a reinvention. This is the style of show that the producers wanted, and they derived three consecutive runs.

If a 4th season were to be greenlit, they'd probably request more of the same (and that includes the voice actors) no matter who helms the production.

Justin Kim

2009-06-13, 22:02

It will probably be a very long time before season 4 starts at all. A very, very long time.

Darknemo2000

2009-06-14, 01:34

It's a bit sad - ZnT really had a potential to be really popular, with right director and the staff. If it would have been the same team as in season 1 we probably not have seen such crappy season's as season 2 and season 3.

There was a very big difference between season 1 and other two seasons if you ask me.

Oh well artwork and voicing is good, music is ok - at least that, even if everything else is an usual JC Staff crap.

Terminator98

2009-06-14, 10:14

100% agree...

I simply cannot understand why they changed so many things from the novels to the anime. I'm currently reading the novels, ( thanks for the link, it worked) and I find that season 1 would've even be better if they followed the script rigourously. (Especially when they go to Albion the 1st time, it's much more, sentimental and enthralling in the novels than in the anime, plus, the marriage ceremony portrays even better the feelings of Louise)

The music is superb thoughm, not OK I believe. Especially the one in the 2nd season. In the last episode, during the 1st half (wedding and Saito's death), I SAY YES ~ Wedding version and the other piano pieces were so... fitting, that I who watches sad anime so often, shed some tears.

Darknemo2000

2009-06-14, 11:19

Terminator98, if you think they changed a lot in season 1, be prepared for a real shocker when you'll see how different are season's 2 and 3 from the novels (specially the ending of season 2).

One of the main differences rises in how they choose to treat Saito/Louise relationship. In novels it is treated as sensual romance with a few comedic irks, but you can see that it can be pretty serious. Anime made it into a continuous S/M joke. Romance and development is practically gone replaced with some fanservice and repetitive jokes.

Terminator98

2009-06-14, 13:09

*Currently up to volume 4 of the light novels*

WTF.... WHY DID THEY REMOVE THE "MOMENTS" (hemm... special moments) IN THE ANIME...

*facepalms* Ok, I am so grateful that I am able to read the novel.

Hemm... Maybe we need to ask Gedeon to redo Zero No Tsukaima into 4 Movie curs like in Gundam SEED/DESTINY.... And re-edit them like in SnS movie...

Hubb

2009-06-14, 16:33

The more you read, the more wtf posts you'll want to make.

relentlessflame

2009-06-15, 11:38

The more you read, the more wtf posts you'll want to make.Except you (all) can do it in a more appropriate thread than this one. (Like maybe the Novel Discussion thread.)

It's a bit sad - ZnT really had a potential to be really popular, with right director and the staff. If it would have been the same team as in season 1 we probably not have seen such crappy season's as season 2 and season 3.But it was really popular, with enough sales to justify the third season, and I don't see any reason to suspect future seasons won't happen at some point. (Even sales of the second and third seasons didn't suffer more than the a usual subsequent-season drop-off; it could hardly be seen as unpopular or as a sales failure.) So who knows... I think it was fine the way it was. And as rg4619 pointed out, it probably had nothing to do with J.C.Staff -- they just animated the show that the producers providing the money wanted them to make.

Terminator98

2009-06-15, 11:52

But it was really popular, with enough sales to justify the third season, and I don't see any reason to suspect future seasons won't happen at some point. (Even sales of the second and third seasons didn't suffer more than the a usual subsequent-season drop-off; it could hardly be seen as unpopular or as a sales failure.) So who knows... I think it was fine the way it was. And as rg4619 pointed out, it probably had nothing to do with J.C.Staff -- they just animated the show that the producers providing the money wanted them to make.

But still, it is sad... T__T
Anyways, fourth season seems possible only at a 30% chance for me...

Darknemo2000

2009-06-15, 12:40

relentlessflame

2009-06-15, 16:20

relentlessflame, we already had this argument many times before - I am aware of the importance of companies behind the studios, but differently from you I believe that a good studio with a good team can pull a good result as companies cannot tell thing by thing, step by step how to animate things (or else studios would not need a bigger half of their workers).But what is the main issue here? Is it really "execution" or is it style? You seem more upset that they produced a fanservice-biased show that went light on plot and deviated significantly from the novels. Is that really about the "execution" of the anime (which J.C.Staff managed) or is that about the tone and style of the anime, which were determined by the production committee in working with the Director and Story Planner (who do not work for J.C.Staff)? Production companies handle execution of the vision, but they're not usually responsible for the vision itself, and I think that's where the bigger problem is according to what you're complaining about.

So yeah while the direction is given the interpretation and presentation is still up to the Studio and the team that works. Even you yourself have to admit the difference between season 1 and season's 2 and 3. The first season never got that many complaints from novel readers even though it did not follow the novels all that well, but the presentation was satisfying.

It all came down to dust with season's 2 and 3 that are poorly executed turning ZnT into a string of S/M themed and repetitive boob jokes, so much that even the actual plotline becomes very hard to notice.Honestly, I didn't think it was as big of a change as you make it out to be. It felt to me as though seasons 2 and 3 were largely continuing in the same style as season 1. The difference, perhaps, is that the jokes were recycled and the "novelty" had worn off a little bit. They also kept the Louise/Saito relationship in a bit of a yoyo-state with sort of "three steps forward, two steps back" in order to drag things out a bit. But I didn't notice a remarkable change in either quality, or tone, or style. The first season was fanservicey with a plot, and the subsequent seasons were also fanservicey with a plot (though they had to up the ante on the fanservice a bit to not be too repetitive). I do think the first season is probably the best simply because it was the first, and the second two feel more like extensions than complete works on their own, but that's sort of the typical law of sequels. So I guess I'd rather them "slightly below" but not dramatically so. Even the series ratings in thread like this one reflect that - it's lower, but not so much lower.

As for 4th season and my doubts... One reason that though sells are good enough they are still dropping and compared to such anime's like Shana where things looks better than for ZnT, ZnT may be pushed further and further into preference to be continued line.The drop-off for ZnT was no more or less dramatic than the drop-off for Shana in terms of percentage, so I don't see it as being any more or less likely, personally. But who knows... I do think that, if they do another season, they are going to change it up a bit and/or move towards a grand finale. Perhaps they're waiting for the novels to near the ending so they can wrap both up at once? And if they don't do any more, the third season wrapped up in a pretty decent manner (for anime-only viewers, anyway).

Darknemo2000

2009-06-15, 22:16

The first season still was pretty strong in terms of the plot and romance itself.

Season's two and three changed things in that regard focusing much more on the fanservice and the recycled S/M or boob jokes, so much that one can easily loose the focus of the actual plot. Romance got stalled with the constant resets marked by Louise blows Saito up.

Weird chracter changes (Saito and Siesta suffered the the most in this regard when you compare their pesonalities in season 1 with seasons 2 and 3).

Terminator98

2009-06-16, 12:21

Terminator98, the third season is already animated. We are talking about the 4th one.
Sorry, I was mixing up with SnS... XD Edited.

I agree about the characters changes, but it was a bit the same in the anime though... Still there was romance, particularly in season 2. The final episode spoke for itself ( I think that it would've been better if they let the suspense about Saito being dead and used this as a re-initiating thread for a 3rd season, plus, it would've made the season so more awesome. ). The first half is fulled with un-equaled romance, be it from the 1st or 3rd season. plus... the kiss in the boat... which was a bit before.

Hubb

2009-06-16, 12:40

Hmm, I think you are still mixing up SnS and ZnT here. Anyway I tend to agree with Dark about how seasons 2 and 3 were played out; needless to say I was disappointed. I will admit that I do hope they come out with a 4th season even if it follows in the footsteps of its predecessors.

I tried to enjoy the anime for what it was and despite some personality changes I don't like, the characters have still grown on me. I can only hope relentless is right in stating that the 4th season will surface sooner or later (to be honest, I can see it happening next year). If there is a dip in shows worth animating in any up coming season I can see ZnT4 as a "safety" for a studio.

Terminator98

2009-06-16, 13:03

I think that it would've been better if they let the suspense about Yuji being dead and used this as a re-initiating thread for a 3rd season, plus, it would've made the season so more awesome.

O.o Why the hell am I mixing those things up... I'm even mixing Gundams up... My head must've been a bit shocked by the accidents I recently made... XD

Anyways, edited. But you can't really blame me for mixing Yuji and saito... They are basically, quite the same... They both take beatings from the girls and they both understand the girl's feelings the wrong way...

Darknemo2000

2009-06-16, 16:08

I would not say they are the same. For me Yuuji is ten times better than Saito, as he is not a pervert and is not as dumb Saito (its hard to beta Saito at being dumb). Not to mention that Saito is womanizer at that too (I mean he confesses to Louise but sees no harm in going around kissing other girls). And is very cocky at that.

Terminator98

2009-06-17, 02:47

Fine image but off-topic

Sorry, I was replying to multiple threads and mixed this one with another one...

I would not say they are the same. For me Yuuji is ten times better than Saito, as he is not a pervert and is not as dumb Saito (its hard to beta Saito at being dumb). Not to mention that Saito is womanizer at that too (I mean he confesses to Louise but sees no harm in going around kissing other girls). And is very cocky at that.

Anyways, at least sir, Saito doesn't scream like hell, and he even goes and faces an army of 70,000 people to save his one love... Something I never saw Yuji do. :heh:

And... Saito isn't actually kissing them, he finds himself into situation where they force him to ( from my point of view... ), plus, he always thinks of Louise while having those problems. The thing is, believe that the girls should do like Shana and Yoshida did to settle the things up...