View Full Version : Gurren-Lagann - Episode 27 (END) Discussion / Poll
Pellissier
2007-09-29, 05:11
Welcome to the discussion thread for Gurren-Lagann, Episode 27 (END).
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come on Gainax... you can do it..
Dave1988
2007-09-29, 09:54
come on Gainax... you can do it..
I believe.
musashiken
2007-09-29, 10:00
So as long Nia doesn't die... I'll be happy with whatever else that happens :P
Glitch87
2007-09-29, 12:56
If gainax nails this ending they just might become gods. gods among men.
7/30/07
BELIEVE
Kaioshin Sama
2007-09-29, 13:23
More of those prelim votes I see.:nono:
Glitch87
2007-09-29, 13:26
seriously, at least vote a ten.
Karon wtf! xd 6!
I expect something so epic ... Gainax, you can do it!
come on Gainax... you can do it..
I believe in them.
Kaioshin Sama
2007-09-29, 14:19
seriously, at least vote a ten.
After it's aired. There's no way you can justify any vote until after you have the facts. Action----->Reaction.
I'm expected a very Gainax/over the top ending. Though the anti spirals must hate me, because i have no internet for the night. D:
RyougaElliot
2007-09-29, 14:49
Gainax, don't let us down.
Deathkillz
2007-09-29, 14:52
The hell you can vote for an ep even before watching it...the dude must have a crystalball somewhere :heh:
anyway this has to be one of the most eagerly awaited ends of the year. next to SD and CG :3
dont fail us now...
I wonder if that 2ch KA final episode list will become true... it's amazingly possible considering it's mostly the guys that always appear in Imaishi-directed episodes and the core Gurren-Lagann Gainax staff.
Here's hoping for the best.
gogo gainax, consolidate gurren lagann as the best anime of the year!
Karon you cunt.
Voting a 6?
I don't blive in gainax but i do belive in imashi
fourty-six minuites to go.
15 minutes; will it be EPIC Xenogear end!? OR it will fail and be Eva2?
OR it will fail and be Eva2?
Many people (including myself) don't call Evangelion's end a fail --- so its upto you.
Many people (including myself) don't call Evangelion's end a fail --- so its upto you.
Never said that Eva ending fail,
Evagelion is anime with a total different feel to GL. Eva is a huge success because its end awesomely in its own gene, its never a hot blood action based anime, but a huge psychological struggle of kids.
GL is different, it will fail so bad if it ends anywhere like Eva. Thus "OR it will fail and be Eva2"
hoho I didn't know you support 'end of the world' or 'congratulation' kinda ending in GL.
and yeah, the brick shit begins to rain down just now.http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/4759/1191108699463f2d1yr0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I better get away from here to avoid spoilers -_-
Well, that's it. The wait for the MoonTube begins.
hoho I didn't know you support 'end of the world' or 'congratulation' kinda ending in GL.
Thats because i never said i did, all i'm saying is that i love that ending for Evangelion.
Deathkillz
2007-09-29, 18:52
ZOMG HAHA!
hes backkkk! :D
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/203/1191109573479xm7.jpg
nia too! XD
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5316/1191109305371ru8.jpg
Dave1988
2007-09-29, 18:56
Dare I say it?
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDD EEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs1 11111111!!!!!!!1
So, where's my episode animation review? Is it as Imaishi-tastic as I hoped it to be?
Nevertheless, it's all over now...
Lol at the screenshot from the official blog. That stuffs genius.
good end. no GAINAX'ed i wish we would have got the scene from opening though.:(
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 19:09
It's not a good end until we find out what 8:56 is all about. Looks like a LOL GAINAX moment since the "END" cue comes right after it. D:
musashiken
2007-09-29, 19:18
Geh, I think I better prepare myself for the worst....
Kirarakim
2007-09-29, 19:19
And I got my hopes up from people saying Good End!
Oh well I am still hopeful
Don't tell me the theories about Simon being Kamina's dad ended up being true :heh:
Not sure if this is Simon at the end, but it's definitely Kamina's dad:
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4417/1191111282955fb1.th.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1191111282955fb1.jpg)
And why is Boota still a molepig? Was him changing to human form part of the "dream"?
OMG_Zerg_Rush
2007-09-29, 19:21
God i hope what 4Chan is saying isn't true that this was just the dieing dream of Kaminas dad
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 19:23
Oh man, even with the Boota deal, this episode was 95% win. But, what on earth happened from 8:49 - 8:56? Even if we had a credits roll, why did we get that surreal final shot?! Why GAINAX?! How could you do this to us? :heh:
Geh, I think I better prepare myself for the worst....
Not exactly sure what the deal was with the last 5-6 minutes, but there's at least this brief scene for Nia fan(atics)...
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i60/Daisuke_CP9/Yawn/11911098786351d8c.jpg
IMSabbel
2007-09-29, 19:24
God i hope what 4Chan is saying isn't true that this was just the dieing dream of Kaminas dad
Well, there is also the other speculation right now:
That this dying kaminas dad IS simon, due to "spiral Powaa!" time paradox.
OMG_Zerg_Rush
2007-09-29, 19:26
Untill Omni post in his blog iv'e decided not to listen to 4Chan (which is what i should have done in the first place)
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 19:29
AWESOME.
The final mech is indeed "Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann"! Sweet. :D
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (the mecha, not the show) is...I don't think there are any words that can adequately describe it. "Humongous" is an understatement, and the roll call that ended with everybody saying "Who the hell do you think we are?!" was a manly tears of awesome moment.
Then we have mecha fighting in the scale of GALAXIES. I think my brain stopped processing the scale awhile ago and just sat back and watched the fights. Now the wait for Part B...
Also, why is Boota a mole-pig again? He should've been part of the Gurren-Dan sound off.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 19:38
I think the whole "walking on galaxies" and using galaxies as discs was probably Anti-Spiral's hax at work again. :heh:
First half is incredible, not exactly 40%...more like OVER 9000%! A bit on the weird side but badarse nevertheless. And yes there's the Boota issue, we'll need to sit tight. :|
Almost done, too scared to watch the ending.
The "speech" was too long, I felt a little bored during it... but that spitting scene was crazy awesome. GO GENOME! :)
...
Haha, the Hokuto reference was great.
musashiken
2007-09-29, 19:44
Ok I better get out here before I see anymore spoilers. I'm gonna wait for the HD raws. After all I got to see the end in detail :P
Royal_Devil
2007-09-29, 19:51
Well, Boota got his human body from Genome's spiral energy, and Genome gets his body back in this episode. So maybe that made Boota lose his human form since I think Genome took his spiral energy back
Shinndou
2007-09-29, 19:55
Watch out guys.
Bittersweet ending. Although they defeated the Anti-Spirals, Nia being an antispiral herself, disappears right during the wedding ceremony (although Simon already was aware of that, since Genome warns him before he sacrifices himself).
In any case...
Holy cow. What an amazing episode. Excuse me guys, I need to take a couple of minutes to reorganize the thoughts 'cause I've been overloaded by awesomeness during the whole episode.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 19:58
I'm at the-
...
WHAT? WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDGE?!
GAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINAAAAAAAAAAAAX! :frustrated::frustrated::frustrated::frustrated:
;_;
Deathkillz
2007-09-29, 20:04
HAHA!!! part A
holy spazms!!! :D
big...bigger...biggest...fcking holy sh*t BIG! :D
so far i'm at a total loss for words...
I loled at the end then cried then loled then... and now I loled. *tears running*
Shinndou
2007-09-29, 20:10
Oh god, there's even a short sequence after the ED song...
Everybody's aged except Leeron (WTF?) and Viral (well, we already knew he's immortal anyway). Rossiu is still governing, Yoko (now a old hag, heh) is back to her job as teacher, Viral is the commander of Cathedral Terra, Gimmy and Darry are adults and pilots (most likely Gimmy is the new pilot of the Gurren Lagann). Then a scene focusing on Kamina's and Nia's graves next to each other ( ;_; ), and Simon wandering lonely on his own, having a chat with a kid who's trying to figure out how to use a drill.
I am at a loss of words. Despite some very sad moments, this was by far the best ending I've seen in quite a long time.
I've truly enjoyed this show.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 20:12
"Self-completes" my arse, this episode was begging for a season II. BUT HOW DOES ONE TOP THAT FINAL BATTLE I wonder I wonder. :eyespin:
...
Frankly, Gainax, you've baited me. Buy those ADV DVDs folks! Do it in the name of viral marketing! :heh:
OMG_Zerg_Rush
2007-09-29, 20:12
Watch out guys.
Bittersweet ending. Although they defeated the Anti-Spirals, Nia being an antispiral herself, disappears right during the wedding ceremony (although Simon already was aware of that, since Genome warns him before he sacrifices himself).
In any case...
Holy cow. What an amazing episode. Excuse me guys, I need to take a couple of minutes to reorganize the thoughts 'cause I've been overloaded by awesomeness during the whole episode.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
The final fight was...amazing. Incredible. Epic. GAR. Genome, like Kamina, Kittan and the others before him, went out in a beautiful sacrifice. We even got to see Razengan one more time. Seeing CGGL split further and further into its components before Lagann Impact destroyed Anonymous once and for all was beautiful. Then back to Earth we go.
Simon and Nia marrying was sweet, and it proved that Episode 17 followed through on the promise of the ring. Then Nia...she's a brave girl to go out like that. The moment is happy, yet sad at the same time...I'll miss you, Nia. I still remember when you were the chef aboard the DaiGurren. Doesn't quite seem like the right time to start playing "Minna no Peace" now, does it? But it's not quite over...
No, it's not over yet.
So...several years down the line, Yomako-sensei continues to teach, Rossiu still holds power, and Gimmy has become Simon's successor, piloting Gurren-Lagann. Viral now mans the Cathedral Terra, and Simon...
In some ways, he's like Kamina once was. A guy trying to help others with the skills he has, his trusty partner by his side. With a final look up to the stars, so ends the show. Beautiful and bittersweet, a fitting end that makes me glad I watched.
But if all this is the end of Gurren-Lagann...
Then what the heck happened in the first episode!?
Frankly, Gainax, you've baited me. Buy those ADV DVDs folks! Do it in the name of viral marketing! :heh:
Of course I will. Who do you think I am?
Shinndou
2007-09-29, 20:18
"Self-completes" my arse, this episode was begging for a season II. BUT HOW DOES ONE TOP THAT FINAL BATTLE I wonder I wonder. :eyespin:
...
Frankly, Gainax, you've baited me. Buy those ADV DVDs folks! Do it in the name of viral marketing! :heh:
Well....
Although there is technically room for a second season, I hope they won't make one. It feels right like this, this show was about Simon's long tale anyway, and now that he's passed his task to the younger generation I feel there's no need to go on with the story (it'd be curious to see adult Gimmy and Darry in action though).
It's fine like this really. Maybe an OVA could satisfy those who still want more of the Gurren Lagann universe, but a second TV season would feel overkill. It's fine like this, it's a bittersweet ending, and it's awesome.
;_; So basically, being alone forever is what you get for being a hero?!
Kirarakim
2007-09-29, 20:21
I really liked the episode. I was worried when everyone was saying WTF ending but I think it was GOOD ending or bitter sweet which is my favorite type of ending. I didn't like the episode as much as 26 but overall I was still pleased with it.
I do think I need to watch the subbed version to fully appreciate this episode so I am going to wait to rate it.
But I will definitely be buying the DVDs. Where are my DVDs ADV?
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 20:21
Then what the heck happened in the first episode!?
Well, if it's any consolation, what happened in the first episode could be derived from that "epilogue" after the credits. The setting is set for everything from a "Great Dimensional Government" (with Anti-Spiral gone, something like Rossiu's Government on a multi-planar scale?) to Garlock.
Of course, Simon needs some of that stuff Genome uses to stay young first. Boota would be around the right age to become the sub-commander too.
...
HAHA, OH WOW @ ROSSIU'S VOICE. :D
That's awesome! No, EPIC!
;_; So basically, being alone forever is what you get for being a hero?!
Yes. Its one of the un-written codes of the universe.
noooooo
No Yoko X Simon
Nooooooooo
Nia!!!!!
Nooooooooo
Gene Yuss
2007-09-29, 20:26
NIIIIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAA!!!
At least the battle was awesome... And the ending, while sad, was appropriate.
I'll come back in a while and scream. A bit too overwhelmed right now to even know what the heck i'm thinking.
What an amazingly animated final battle.
Sakuyakun
2007-09-29, 20:33
;_; So basically, being alone forever is what you get for being a hero?!
Uwahhh bitter sweet ending ;_;
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 20:33
Wait, what.
Simon is the narrator?!
Shinndou
2007-09-29, 20:35
Wait, what.
Simon is the narrator?!
Lol yes, apparently. That's actually fitting, since
He's wandering around, so he could perfectly have decided to become the storyteller of his own tale. :)
Is it too far out-there to think that might've been Gimmy in episode 1?
oh god....I think that was more than I was expecting....god I'm sad
genome....nia....massive time skip to old simon, which in turn meant no episode 1 simon
*sniff* anyway, the battle looked absolutely beautiful, especially the final section with the GLs breaking out of each other (well, at least they made use of the otherwise insane robot on top of robot inside robot inside robot inside robot idea)
the anti-spiral made a good final enemy, screaming and whatnot.
all and all I'm very pleased, albeit sad
Shinndou
2007-09-29, 20:38
Is it too far out-there to think that might've been Gimmy in episode 1?
No, I don't think it's him. It could simply be a dream sequence, or something along those lines. I think of one of the VA said it in an interview.
Is it too far out-there to think that might've been Gimmy in episode 1?
no, it was simon, they just never really showed it.
timeskip, in boota's head, take your pick.
Kirarakim
2007-09-29, 20:41
About Simon's ending
You know he isn't really alone. He has Boota
No, I don't think it's him. It could simply be a dream sequence, or something along those lines. I think of one of the VA said it in an interview.
Makes sense to me.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 20:42
Best Gainax TV series ever. No questions, no comments.
Lol yes, apparently. That's actually fitting, since
He's wandering around, so he could perfectly have decided to become the storyteller of his own tale. :)
It also means the "mysterious person" in episode four was probably the narrator as well.
As said many times, this series would have been a really good end...if Gainax didn't give us the prologue scene. If we didn't have the prologue this would have been a LEGENDARY AND EPIC END, but that one very tempting moment was too cruel to bait us with.
I hope Gimmy isn't Garlock, he's not half as awesome as Simon is/was. Kamina wasn't either, though Kamina was still more awesome than Gimmy. :heh:
The stage IS set for the prologue, though, as I said. I'm not sure if we should see more or not, given this ending was pretty good, but I want that scene dang it. :mad:
...
Ooh, something else I noticed.
"Evoluders" if you will, of those there have been two in the series - Kittan and Genome. We could tell from the spiral eyes. Old Simon's left eye looks to have the same spiral pupil, though he could just be blind...
duckroll
2007-09-29, 20:47
Okay, I'm really, really, really impressed. Gainax knocked this one SO FAR out of the park, I consider this one of the best endings that Gurren Lagann can possibly have, and up there with my favorite BONES endings. Seriously, wow.
As said many times, this series would have been a really good end...if Gainax didn't give us the prologue scene. If we didn't have the prologue this would have been a LEGENDARY AND EPIC END, but that one very tempting moment was too cruel to bait us with.
I don't know. it was a weakness of the earlier episodes to have that, but in the end I don't think that detracts from the ending, though perhaps a bit from the series as a whole.
Shinndou
2007-09-29, 20:57
I don't know. it was a weakness of the earlier episodes to have that, but in the end I don't think that detracts from the ending, though perhaps a bit from the series as a whole.
Agreed, the prologue is just a small extra content for the viewers who still wanted to know what's the path that each of the characters has decided to walk. I don't feel baited at all, nor I feel the urge to see any possible sequel. It's an awesome ending like this, I don't think I could ask for anything better than this either, probably.
CSakuraS
2007-09-29, 21:08
The prologue served its purpose in making people look forward to what Simon will become in the future, and even if it doesn't actually happen, we got something just as great.
And personally I think this ending ties up everything. It's just perfect.
Dave1988
2007-09-29, 21:10
The prologue served its purpose in making people look forward to what Simon will become in the future, and even if it doesn't actually happen, we got something just as great.
And personally I think this ending ties up everything. It's just perfect.
bububububu ----- Nia T__T
musashiken
2007-09-29, 21:12
CRIES MANLY TEARS
I thought I had prepared myself but.....
*Floodgates open
OMG_Zerg_Rush
2007-09-29, 21:15
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2007/09/29/gurren-lagann-27-end/
Nia is so brave!
For Simon's sake, I hope there's an afterlife... somewhere.
CSakuraS
2007-09-29, 21:20
bububububu ----- Nia T__T
Oh, I'm crying too. The tears just won't stop. ;___;
musashiken
2007-09-29, 21:24
You know, I've always hated bitter sweet endings. And this takes the cake.
I don't know if I'll ever pull myself together again after today...
But life goes on, I'll live my life to the fullest and perhaps one day, when I'm watching the R2 Dvds, I'll think of all the good memories...
But just let me T_T for now...
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Gurren%20Lagann/Gurren%20Lagann%20-%2027%20-%20Large%2051.jpg
Whats wrong with simons right eye?
Is Boota immortal like Viral? He hasn't aged one bit
They shrunk Yokos boobs
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Gurren%20Lagann/Gurren%20Lagann%20-%2027%20-%20Large%2037.jpg
I pretty much agree with duckroll. And I'll go to orgasm a little more at the animation as the amazing but obvious list in 2ch was actually true. So awesome.
Shinndou
2007-09-29, 21:36
You know, I've always hated bitter sweet endings. And this takes the cake.
I don't know if I'll ever pull myself together again after today...
But life goes on, I'll live my life to the fullest and perhaps one day, when I'm watching the R2 Dvds, I'll think of all the good memories...
But just let me T_T for now...
But that's the good thing about this kind of endings. It's bittersweet. Bitter, and yet still sweet. You hate it, and yet you love it. Even though there are parts that make you sad, you feel it's perfectly complete and satsfying, somehow. I was honestly scared that Gainax might have screwed up with this last episode, but I am damn glad that I was proven absolutely wrong.
Anyway, I honestly feel this show has the potential to become a new milestone in the recent anime history, because of its unique style, animation, pacing, and because it's a well told, epic tale. There's been a lot of good shows this year so far, but this one is probably the one with that magic, that charm that makes you feel you've watched something pretty big.
I have certainly become a poor hopeless fanboy, but may I damned if I atleast haven't been honest in conveying my emotions about this.
Thank you for having produced such an awesome show, Gainax (and for not having screwed it up).
Onizuka-GTO
2007-09-29, 21:50
;_; So basically, being alone forever is what you get for being a hero?!
well you know what they say, "Old soldiers don't die, they just fade away"
*salutes*
/(T-T )
Kirarakim
2007-09-29, 21:52
But that's the good thing about this kind of endings. It's bittersweet. Bitter, and yet still sweet. You hate it, and yet you love it. Even though there are parts that make you sad, you feel it's perfectly complete and satsfying, somehow. I was honestly scared that Gainax might have screwed up with this last episode, but I am damn glad that I was proven absolutely wrong.
I agree completely. I love these type of endings because there is actual meaning behind them. I was hoping for a happy ending but I actually think what we got is better. Then again I have always been a fan of bitter sweet endings.
And the ending with Simon was a nice full circle type ending.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 21:55
You know, I've always hated bitter sweet endings. And this takes the cake.
I don't know if I'll ever pull myself together again after today...
But life goes on, I'll live my life to the fullest and perhaps one day, when I'm watching the R2 Dvds, I'll think of all the good memories...
But just let me T_T for now...
I was in your shoes when I finished Mahoromatic.
Fully prepared for a surrealistic, LOL GAINAX ending as I was, that show hit my hard enough to punch a hole through my soul. I was outrageously depressed and frustrated with that ending, it was just so melancholic. Especially for such a light-hearted series.
Of course there were hints of a "deeper", more serious plotline underneath the magical girl prop-up, but dear gosh I had no idea it would get that important. When I saw what happened with Yuuichirou Konoe, I knew the ending could be nothing more than terrible but GAH.
In comparison, GL had an awesome end. At least it made sense, if the dream sequence in twenty six and the galactic battle we saw today were quite a bit surreal.
Time will heal all wounds, especially if age is married with productivity and success. Go with the light, friend. :)
shit...shit.....SHIT!~
bitter sweet complete ending, how un-Gainax like...
and Nia die, shit.... Utawareru mono all over again.....I am down now.
Onizuka-GTO
2007-09-29, 21:55
oh haruhi.....the raws are...MASSIVE!
Guess i have to just wait for the subs.....DAMMIT!! or maybe youtube?
i hope not, i hate the quality on youtube..... ;_;
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 22:02
Hey folks, I just discovered something.
When "Old Simon" kneels to assist the kid in the epilogue, his clothes make chain sounds.
Grr, Gainax, you are such a tease! :mad:
Neki Ecko
2007-09-29, 22:04
O.....M........G...
I have to say this "This has been a very epic last couple of months". I think 2007 has been best Anime in very long time, with Gurren-Lagann, Claymore, and others including SD. This series is going to be remember for a very long time and I cant wait until ADV put this out and we can all enjoyed the epic story for years to come. EVA just found itself a rivaly in GL for greatest anime of all time. But back to the episode, I am very satisfy and I enjoyed it alot.
ADV, Please for the love of God, dont screw up the dubs, I will never buy from yall again if that happen(now that is question, who will be VA on this) and put this show on Adult Swim and Anime channel as well.
Hey folks, I just discovered something.
When "Old Simon" kneels to assist the kid in the epilogue, his clothes make chain sounds.
Grr, Gainax, you are such a tease! :mad:
oh come on, its perfect.
if that's there (along with the one spiral eye) it basically means that Simon has been making himself useful over the years, helping people that the government overlooks.
CSakuraS
2007-09-29, 22:08
ADV, Please for the love of God, dont screw up the dubs, I will never buy from yall again if that happen(now that is question, who will be VA on this) and put this show on Adult Swim and Anime channel as well.
I say screw the dub, I'm buying all the DVDs just for the subs.
Though, if the dub does manage to be good, that would be nice too. I don't think anyone would be able to top the Japanese performances though, especially Simon and Kamina and all the passionate yelling and manly speeches.
Neki Ecko
2007-09-29, 22:11
I say screw the dub, I'm buying all the DVDs just for the subs.
Though, if the dub does manage to be good, that would be nice too. I don't think anyone would be able to top the Japanese performances though, especially Simon and Kamina and all the passionate yelling and manly speeches.
hmm, how about the VA for Shinji from EVA as Simon voice (okay, you can throw tomatoes at me) and for Kamina, now that is going to be very hard for that.
I was in your shoes when I finished Mahoromatic.
Fully prepared for a surrealistic, LOL GAINAX ending as I was, that show hit my hard enough to punch a hole through my soul. I was outrageously depressed and frustrated with that ending, it was just so melancholic. Especially for such a light-hearted series.
But Mahoro didn't die!~ she came back and be with the main lead again. In GL Nia is well.. gone, so I BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
When "Old Simon" kneels to assist the kid in the epilogue, his clothes make chain sounds.
probably from the drill rod he is holding, why would it be any significant though? Are you trying to suggest something?
I also BAWWWW at the point where Simon was trying to say..
"Who do think I a..... well, really noone am I"
The sentence really break GAR spirit T_T
musashiken
2007-09-29, 22:18
But Mahoro didn't die!~ she came back and be with the main lead again. In GL Nia is well.. gone, so I BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
I know.... BOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
*sob
But if it's any consolation, Nia is the ultimate tribute to Ayanami Rei and Nono...
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 22:24
I've got to agree on that, Nia = Nono. Warning signs have now been established for when Yukari Fukui voices another Gainax production. :heh:
But Mahoro didn't die!~ she came back and be with the main lead again.
You forget Suguru was stabbed prior to that happening, he was going to die before the dawn broke. Heck, the VERY FINAL SCENE was Suguru + Mahoro going through two huge, shining doors.
I don't think Mahoro came back, it seems obvious to me that was just a dying man's final dream. Even if she did come back, it wasn't the same Mahoro, it was a copy of Saint's awareness. The real Mahoro's soul died long ago and never came back to her lost love.
probably from the drill rod he is holding, why would it be any significant though? Are you trying to suggest something?
I don't think the rod would make those kinds of sounds.
On my implication, who knows? :cool:
Kirarakim
2007-09-29, 22:25
I am sure Gurren Lagann will air on the Anime Network since it is ADV's own channel but it would be nice if they could get it on Adult Swim to reach a larger audience (it's technically not a show aimed at adults but I don't think it would ever get on Toonami).
I am still hoping for a good dub (I usually do like ADV's dubs) but I'll by the DVDs regardless. I really wish we knew when they were coming out already. I also hope we get a nice collectors box (maybe with a small model of Gurren Lagann).
Fuck I'm getting teary eyed here.
Damn you Gainax for exceeding my expectations.
Really EPIC ending. The fight scenes were amazing. Just amazing. Final mech Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann kicked so much ass.
That said, it was a rather depressing ending. I actually would have stopped it as the credits rolled and not added the scene afterwards.
Simon being alone like that and saying he is nobody is just too sad and depressing. He gave so much of himself to save the world and this is how he ends up? Makes me think they should have just killed him off so he could be with Nia.
Still, overall an excellent ending to a really wonderful series. Definitely one of my favorites of Spring 07.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-29, 23:12
There's an old Viking saying if I recall correctly.
"Even a handless man can herd sheep, but a corpse is no good to anyone".
Aside from the "spiral power" issue, there's nothing metaphysical in Gurren-Lagann, it's straight science fiction. Even if one believes in the soul and the existance of an after-life, there was still much good Simon could do in this universe with his life - he's an educated man, and he's a powerful one with a lot of worldly/life experience. Society could still benefit from his work.
The simple life isn't something to be snuffed at, many famous historical or mythological figures didn't enjoy basking in glory either, despite a career of much success.
Besides, "Simon the Wanderer" is only, what, forty one years old as of the end of the series? He's still got thirty years left according to our first world's standard of living, probably more in his universe.
I'm surprised his spiral energy didn't keep him young. Outside of plastic surgery, Ron looks the same as always, but everyone else looks much, much older. =/
Leeron probably make himself immortal using some science technology just like what Spiral King did to himself once before...
FABULOUS forever, well kinda make sense if he has to be the one who makes all those GL and ready them for the war. Genius life who live forever is awesome.
Samanosuke
2007-09-29, 23:22
damn it Gainax , you've made me cry ! damn you !
Kirarakim
2007-09-29, 23:23
I'm surprised his spiral energy didn't keep him young.
I just think Simon wouldn't have wanted to use the Spiral Power to keep himself younger.
As for Simon benefiting society it seems he was already helping that young boy. And who knows what that boy will become.
I can finally come back now and say that this was really an amazing ending. None of the animes in recent memory made me feel what I feel right now. Some have come close, but Gurren Lagann takes the prize. Heck, this was only a day after School Days ended :P.
It's really sad when you sit down and think about it. Both Nia and Simon knew they wouldn't be able to live together, yet they did their best til the very end. Their last memory was a beautiful one: beautiful scenery, surrounded by the people they love the most, and they were both happy.
One thing I didn't really like though, they went a bit too far with the age/and the looks :P. I lol'ed when I saw old Rossiu.
An incredible end to an incredible series, coupled with incredible music as well. Happy endings are good, but it's the bittersweet ending that give shows a place in its audience's memories.
Kinda reflecting on the whole series, you feel like you've come a long way with the characters (since Simon was very young, until now). That also adds up to all the emotions at the end. It's like you walked through Simon's past, and lived his life as he lived it.
Kudos to Gainax for not messing things up.
Nightengale
2007-09-29, 23:28
Bittersweet, but it was good. They were all completely aware it could come to this, and they accepted it as what it is. Solid end, and it was a pretty epic fight as well. There was a real sense of weight behind the kaiju-like behemoth battle between the two. Epic in its own private scale.
In the end, they own chose their own paths in life, and it was happy enough for them. I'm content with that.
In the end, there are some 0% that cannot go beyond 0% after all. ;_;
I did catch Yoko's line to Gimmy about how "Simon's not God". That's true...he may not be God, but I'd say Garlock comes pretty close.
Samanosuke
2007-09-29, 23:36
I did catch Yoko's line to Gimmy about how "Simon's not God". That's true...he may not be God, but I'd say Garlock comes pretty close.
i believe it was because Gimmy was suggesting to use simon's power to ressurect Nia....or something like that.
So, how many days passed after they arrived to Earth before the wedding sequence? It's obviously at least a day later, but it's just curiosity.
So, how many days passed after they arrived to Earth before the wedding sequence? It's obviously at least a day later, but it's just curiosity.
2 weeks.
draw your own conclusions.
2 weeks.
draw your own conclusions.
where did that come from?
No, I don't think it's him. It could simply be a dream sequence, or something along those lines. I think of one of the VA said it in an interview.
Actually I think it's mentioned to be a parallel universe, like one of those in ep26.
where did that come from?
for some reason I was quite certain of it, but looking over that section right now I apparently had no idea what I was talking about.
edit: maybe I was thinking about the 20 year timeskip at the end....anyway, my apologies.
I don't think the epilogue is bad, and I would be satisfied if this is really the end...
But somehow... I think they may do one more thing later (maybe only on DVD? Or perhaps an OVA?) that dies off the final lose ends (such as the scene in ep 1 where Boota is a grown up human instead of a kid like in the last few episodes and Simon's eye...). Simon is a bit too resign in the epilogue to me... I think that's why I feel it's a bit suspicious.
The only thing that really, really bothers me is this.
When Simon and Viral were stopped by Nia at the core of Cathedral Terra, Nia said she can't be saved because she's anti-spiral. He replied, if the probability isn't zero, then it's the same as 100%. In episode 26, he vowed he'll save both his woman and the universe. He also said he'll grasp her future with his own hands.
Even though I'm sure Simon and Nia were happy together, the end result is that he could not follow through any of these vows to save her from her fate of being a creation of Anti-Spiral.
Because of the nature and spirit of the show, the sheer fact that they made Simon say these words, and not be able to follow through, left a very unconfortable mark.
I don't have any objections to bitter sweet endings, and overall I thought this last episode was awesome, but it sure didn't feel right considering the theme of the series.
I felt the theme of the show should have been, if a man says he'll get something accomplished... he will do so, without any compromise.
The only thing that really, really bothers me is this.
When Simon and Viral were stopped by Nia at the core of Cathedral Terra, Nia said she can't be saved because she's anti-spiral. He replied, if the probability isn't zero, then it's the same as 100%. In episode 26, he vowed he'll save both his woman and the universe. He also said he'll grasp her future with his own hands.
Even though I'm sure Simon and Nia were happy together, the end result is that he could not follow through any of these vows to save her from her fate of being a creation of Anti-Spiral.
Because of the nature and spirit of the show, the sheer fact that they made Simon say these words, and not be able to follow through, left a very unconfortable mark.
I don't have any objections to bitter sweet endings, and overall I thought this last episode was awesome, but it sure didn't feel right considering the theme of the series.
I felt the theme of the show should have been, if a man says he'll get something accomplished... he will do so, without any compromise.
well, he did keep his promise, it's just that Nia reached the end of her life-span afterwards. You can think Nia as terminally ill, and she just passed away after Simon saved her and married her. The people in this show are not immortals after all, and as far as I can tell, Simon has fulfilled his vows. He didn't say he'll make Nia immortal anyway.
The only thing that really, really bothers me is this.
When Simon and Viral were stopped by Nia at the core of Cathedral Terra, Nia said she can't be saved because she's anti-spiral. He replied, if the probability isn't zero, then it's the same as 100%. In episode 26, he vowed he'll save both his woman and the universe. He also said he'll grasp her future with his own hands.
Even though I'm sure Simon and Nia were happy together, the end result is that he could not follow through any of these vows to save her from her fate of being a creation of Anti-Spiral.
Because of the nature and spirit of the show, the sheer fact that they made Simon say these words, and not be able to follow through, left a very unconfortable mark.
I don't have any objections to bitter sweet endings, and overall I thought this last episode was awesome, but it sure didn't feel right considering the theme of the series.
I felt the theme of the show should have been, if a man says he'll get something accomplished... he will do so, without any compromise.
He did save Nia in a way. She was "free" when she disappeared. The only thing that tied her to the Anti-Spiral disappeared with her. This is better than letting her die in the hands of the Anti-Spirals themselves.
It's a little disappointing, but it also emphasis the fact that Simon is only human. He can't fight against what has already been pre-decided (Nia was born as a tool for the Anti-Spirals).
Damn it, the more I think about this, the more depressed I get.
well, he did keep his promise, it's just that Nia reached the end of her life-span afterwards. You can think Nia as terminally ill, and she just passed away after Simon saved her and married her. The people in this show are not immortals after all, and as far as I can tell, Simon has fulfilled his vows. He didn't say he'll make Nia immortal anyway.
No, that's not what I mean.
Look back at the conversation they had at Cathedral Terra.
The "If it's not 0%, then it's the same as 100%" was about her body as Anti-Spiral.
This issue was not resolved, like he said they will be.
"If we win, will your body be returned to normal?"
"The probability of that is infinitly close to zero"
"But it's not zero, right? Then it's the same as 100% to me"
I'm not talking about getting her back from the Anti-Spirals.
musashiken
2007-09-30, 00:53
No, that's not what I mean.
Look back at the conversation they had at Cathedral Terra.
The "If it's not 0%, then it's the same as 100%" was about her body as Anti-Spiral.
This issue was not resolved, like he said they will be.
I'm not talking about getting her back from the Anti-Spirals.
I agree... what the hell happened to the "Kick reason to the curb" crap?
In the end, that 0% was never overcame... that's just too sad... so sad...
I'm still too busy in awe at the amazing animation.
No, that's not what I mean.
Look back at the conversation they had at Cathedral Terra.
The "If it's not 0%, then it's the same as 100%" was about her body as Anti-Spiral.
This issue was not resolved, like he said they will be.
"If we win, will your body be returned to normal?"
"The probability of that is infinitly close to zero"
"But it's not zero, right? Then it's the same as 100% to me"
I'm not talking about getting her back from the Anti-Spirals.
That's part of Simon being too resign that I was talking about a few posts before. It doesn't feel right to me either.
In this show, everything is supposed to be possible as long as there's a will. The ending doesn't not reflect that. That's why I think there may be something extra after this.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 01:00
Ahh, I see what aohige's talking about - that is rather out-of-theme for the series, though a logical outcome given Nia's nature is outside of Simon's control. One could also tie that in with Boota and his de-evolution - was it impossible for him to become a human as well?
Frankly, I myself like the idea that there can be some aspects of the world that are beyond human control - elsewise, people could become God, and certainly not even the Anti-Spiral tribe was of that calibur.
Nightengale
2007-09-30, 01:04
Well, I looked at it as GL's version of LOL GAINAX, in the sense that despite GL's successive nature of the show, it gave it a final show that despite what Spiral powers had been shown to be able to do, despite overcoming odds from 0%, there are things that just cannot be overcome and despite inhuman powers, there are things that cannot be done by a mere human.
I've always thought that Simon would be able to turn Nia back to normal with his Spiral Power, and it wouldn't be far-fetched either, considering what Spiral power CAN do, but in the end, I suppose despite everything it can do, there are some things it just can't do. Like revive the dead.
It's probably like a stab-in-the-back after all those big words, but I suppose it reflects a degree of life and limits that humans have to accept.
mangasuki
2007-09-30, 01:04
what is the word "切ない" in English?
the ending was really 切ない....
No, that's not what I mean.
Look back at the conversation they had at Cathedral Terra.
The "If it's not 0%, then it's the same as 100%" was about her body as Anti-Spiral.
This issue was not resolved, like he said they will be.
"If we win, will your body be returned to normal?"
"The probability of that is infinitly close to zero"
"But it's not zero, right? Then it's the same as 100% to me"
I'm not talking about getting her back from the Anti-Spirals.
I don't know...I always felt it was more about not giving up than actually succeeding, since all the villains basically had been those who gave up.
I guess that was somewhat less obvious with Simon, but back in the Kamina episodes that seemed to be the major jist of things: no matter how impossible it was for kamina to succeed, he'd just keep trying anyway.
Anything short of GOOD END is BAD END. And this is B(itter)AD END.
...part of me would have preferred they'd gone the over-the-top DEAD END route. Have the show end with the dying moments of the Dai-Gurren-Dan as the Anti-Spirals crush all of them. Heck, part of me even prefers them going the CYCLIC END route, where the Anti-Spirals smash everyone back into their little planet, and Simon/Viral takes on the role of Lord Genome (with the epilogue being some new spiral upstart coming to face them).
...nope, no, even the over-the-top nature of these ends doesn't make up for the fact that they BAD ENDs. ...Grah, death of Nia is unacceptable! It taints the ending.
The only thing that really, really bothers me is this.
When Simon and Viral were stopped by Nia at the core of Cathedral Terra, Nia said she can't be saved because she's anti-spiral. He replied, if the probability isn't zero, then it's the same as 100%. In episode 26, he vowed he'll save both his woman and the universe. He also said he'll grasp her future with his own hands.
Even though I'm sure Simon and Nia were happy together, the end result is that he could not follow through any of these vows to save her from her fate of being a creation of Anti-Spiral.
Because of the nature and spirit of the show, the sheer fact that they made Simon say these words, and not be able to follow through, left a very unconfortable mark.Hohoho, speaking of "uncomfortable marks", maybe this implies that the Spirals will destroy the universe as well? Simon failed to keep one of the promises, so it sets a precedent for the failure of the other! Hohohoho. This amuses me greatly.
I don't know...I always felt it was more about not giving up than actually succeeding, since all the villains basically had been those who gave up.
I guess that was somewhat less obvious with Simon, but back in the Kamina episodes that seemed to be the major jist of things: no matter how impossible it was for kamina to succeed, he'd just keep trying anyway.
Yes, but by not pursuing all possibility to save her, he did in fact "give up".
When he acknowledged the fate in that cockpit with her, he gave up their future together. Of course, they were happy to live the short life afterwards together, but it was still a compromise they made.
Realistic? Logical? Well, those aren't what the show was about, right?
Even if Nia's death was unavoidable, I was hoping to see Simon struggle and try.
If the result was a fail, then at that point he can send her off with a smile.
what is the word "切ない" in English?
the ending was really 切ない....
Although not a literal or direct translation, the closest word used in this case to describe it would be "bitter sweet".
Which would be closer to "甘く切ない", which I believe fits this episode well.
Good ending although a bit straightforward for a Gainax series.
There's a bit too much talking times though and the villains weren't as menacing as I had hoped but the fight was good. I also liked how they confirmed my Anti-spiral = 2ch/4ch joke. Hah.
They finally addressed and nailed some of the action things that I had been complaining. For example, showing the scale of the mecha properly by doing it from the viewpoint of the Earth was fantastic. It showed the brevity of the situation and made the fight feel a lot more epic. Helped counterbalance the cheese factor in using the "Everyone pilot it" cliche and the usage of Galaxies as slicing discs (even going as far as to slice another galaxy partially).
The epilogue wasn't even needed I think although it was kind of nice. Oh, and Leeron did age, it just doesn't look as much so but he definitely did. Nice attention litte touch with the voices too.
And I was so glad I was right about Boota. >_>
musashiken
2007-09-30, 01:12
what is the word "切ない" in English?
the ending was really 切ない....
There's not really a good equivalent English word for "切ない". It's hard to translate something as complicated as Setsunai into one English word. But for simplicity, "Painful" comes quite close...
And yeah I agree it is very very "切ない"... reminds me of Mai's ending in the Mai Hime game.(I doubt many know but in the Mai Hime game, Mai has a very similar ending to Nia)Geh, just makes me sad...
Yeah, I think that's what really bothers me about the epilogue....Simon is just so not Simon-like.
The resignation is just so out of place for him. Though I suppose Nia's loss affected him deeply. Still depressing as hell though. I wanted a happier end for him at least. Poor Simon. Though the funny thing is I don't have a problem with everything before the credits. That was sad too, but I felt it was less depressing because Simon was still Simon-like. If they left it there you could still have hope for Simon since it's a bit open. The epilogue sort of closes the door on that.
There's not really a good equivalent English word for "切ない". It's hard to translate something as complicated as Setsunai into one English word. But for simplicity, "Painful" comes quite close...
And yeah I agree it is very very "切ない"... reminds me of Mai's ending in the Mai Hime game (I doubt many know but in the Mai Hime game, Mai has a very similar ending to Nia). Geh, just makes me sad...
Miserable would be the best word for 切ない, used alone anyway.
musashiken
2007-09-30, 01:17
I dunno, Miserable is still a little lacking, but whatever... I'm still sad.
The end was great, epic ( insert you here), if someone ever tells me that there is a battle better than this, allow me to tell that person, FUCKING LIAR!
But, WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHY?, bittersweet ending ;_;! Gainax, why didnt you remain normal for a while?, why not give us a beautiful and conventional ending???
;_;
9.
I dunno, Miserable is still a little lacking, but whatever... I'm still sad.
Nah, miserable would be the best word for it unless you're bloating it up a bit.
musashiken
2007-09-30, 01:21
Nah, miserable would be the best word for it unless you're bloating it up a bit.
Pfft, fine have it your way, I'm not a translator. I'm not going to argue. What's the damn point??? It's over!!!!! I wasted 27 weeks for this feeling!!!!!
Pfft, fine have it your way, I'm not a translator. I'm not going to argue. What's the damn point??? It's over!!!!! I wasted 27 weeks for this feeling!!!!!
See? Now, don't you feel miserable? :heh:
Yes, but by not pursuing all possibility to save her, he did in fact "give up".
When he acknowledged the fate in that cockpit with her, he gave up their future together. Of course, they were happy to live the short life afterwards together, but it was still a compromise they made.
Realistic? Logical? Well, those aren't what the show was about, right?
Even if Nia's death was unavoidable, I was hoping to see Simon struggle and try.
If the result was a fail, then at that point he can send her off with a smile.
hmm...I see your point.
I personally viewed trying to save Nia as giving into the despair of death. trying to change reality at all costs to save the someone from death seemed to me in many ways dangerously close to the Anti-spirals' way of thinking of things and an abuse of power, much like the AS. That's not to say that it was wrong to try and save her from a death, but I bought Simon's line that death is death. she was fated to die, and Simon could merely change how and when, and they really made the most of it.
I dunno, I guess in the end it's to each his own.
I am surprised... why am I only person who vote 1 for this; isn't this episode "painful"
I am surprised... why am I only person who vote 1 for this; isn't this episode "painful"
well it's not painful in that sense.
I mean you can't argue there's some really nice sequences in this one animation-wise. you could have at least given it a 5. :heh:
As if this series didn't need another perfect ten.
I would've been fine with 26 as the ending and it would've been fine with me. But they've gone the extra step to close this show in grand style. Gainax could've rested on their laurels but instead they've given us something to talk about for years.
A series like this only comes out every once and a while. They've definitely topped themselves this time around, pompous as it seems Gurren Lagann IS the measuring bar.
Perfect 10 from me.
musashiken
2007-09-30, 01:34
I am surprised... why am I only person who vote 1 for this; isn't this episode "painful"
I gave it a Perfect 10 because it perfectly made me feel depressed (and I had to have people correcting me about it).
fict_ticious
2007-09-30, 01:40
Overall, well put together.
OMG_Zerg_Rush
2007-09-30, 01:50
Any word from 2Chan on how thier taking the ending?
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 02:03
I am surprised... why am I only person who vote 1 for this; isn't this episode "painful"
Would you feel the same way if the "painful" flavour text was replaced with, "I wish I had those wasted minutes of my life back"?
I also liked how they confirmed my Anti-spiral = 2ch/4ch joke. Hah.
That was a homage to Brave Express Might Gaine.
The main exception is in the series' controversial ending, which is often interpreted by critics as signs of relations souring between Sunrise and Takara. In the ending of Might Gaine, the characters find out that they are merely fictional characters whose conflicts are artificially generated so that their evil otherdimensional mastermind can sell toys and merchandise. Maito reacts to this with a speech that Japanese critics interpreted as a defense of Da Garn's character-driven storytelling style, which Takara is generally believed to have disliked. After making his speech, Maito destroys the enemy, thereby asserting his own "reality" as a true character and not a merchandising tool. This analysis of the series often considers many plot elements throughout the series as Sunrise effectively "striking back" at Takara for forcing them to create shows with less plot in order to cram in more toy designs and action sequences. For instance, many robots in Might Gaine appear with no explanation, or arbitrarily transform into alternate modes that make no particular sense.
I joke, but I wouldn't be surprised.
W-General
2007-09-30, 02:07
A very extremely epic series. Extremely epic battle scene.
I am a Nia fan so it upset me somewhat, but it was at least a realistic explanation. Although considering "spiral power" is supposed to be such an incredible power, they 'could have' worked something with that.
But I was definitely dissatisfied with the final scene - that was wayyyyyyy to anticlimatic. In some ways I think it was a complete failure. I generally love an epilogue which tells what happened to the characters, but this leaves a sour taste.
If Simon could be some sort of "president" after he defeated Lord Genome, why the hell is he being some sort of bum after he defeated the anti-spiral. Not saying that he needs to return to an administrator job, but I think, for example Simon should be with Viral on that ship - heading out towards some huge ass adventure! That's true Dai-Gurrendan spirit.
But no, he's just a nobody traveling bum, and he's been like that for 20 years. I'm sure Nia wouldn't want that. Not even after Kamina died has Simon looked so downtrodden.
Simon the bum. How suck does that sound after that he has done? Fail.
No 10/10 from me.
The series overall was great, but this episode only gets...6. I grade it harsher because it is a final episode, and for me the final episode is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. Like how it wraps up is very important for me - so you can tell how I view other anime series with endings I am not satisfied.
That was a homage to Brave Express Might Gaine.
I joke, but I wouldn't be surprised.
I was kind of refering to the fact that the villains are formless black entities (with sketchy outlines!) with no real face kind of like being anonymous.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 02:23
Oh, pardon. I thought you were implying Gainax inserted Anonymous as the FINAL BOSS to get animated revenge on 2ch for the Akai incident. :heh:
CSakuraS
2007-09-30, 02:29
Hmm, the part with old!Simon didn't strike me as being sad. When he looked up at the sky with Boota at the end, he seemed satisfied with all he's accomplished. What's wrong with just being Simon the Digger? He said that name with pride back in episode 11. Even when he was Commander in Chief of Kamina City, he didn't strike me as the type to want power and glory; he just valued the important things in life. He's the guy who didn't mind dying in jail alone as long as everyone else survived. Like with Yoko adopting her Yomako identity, Simon doesn't need to be recognized as a hero by everyone he meets: he knows what he's done, the people who matter know what he did, and he sees the fruits of his labors wherever he goes.
After losing Nia, I thought it was appropriate that he would want to travel around and leave things to everyone else. He pierced the heavens and now he's gone to dig new paths for new people. He even carries a staff with a drill at the end. And there were fresh flowers at Nia's grave: he probably visits that spot very regularly.
And for the record, he's not alone. He's got Boota, his oldest friend.
EDIT: If Nia didn't disappear, I could see him staying in Kamina City and having a family with her. While that would have been a happier ending, what we got was more of an epic ending.
That was partially what I meant. I mean, come on! the Anti-Spirals are generic looking black outlines. It might be Gainax's fun pokey response to the Akai incident.
W-General
2007-09-30, 02:42
I was reading some other posts elsewhere, and one thing that someone said totally clicked.
Consider this:
Viral's dream is actually to live peacefully with a family, which he can't do. Lord Genome gave him an immortal body so he can be a storyteller (e.g. traveling bard).
It would've been more appropriate for Viral to be the vagabond, telling the story of the Dai-gurren-dan to the next generation, while Simon leads the grand adventure into space.
I still think Gainax messed this one up. Of course for me, the greater the expectations the greater the disappointment :(
I thought the ending was great, and is kind of what I was expecting. It's much more subdued than the "Episode 1" ending idea, but still has a bit of the same sentiment.
Also my favorite bit of the ending was the contrast between the two graves, the hill for the warriors was rocky and harsh, but Nia's hill was covered with flowers, and for some reason I think this image strikes me as being very symbolic of the series as a whole- in that, at the beginning of the series, life was rugged and people exsisted only to struggle, but now at the end, people have peace and can be alive.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 02:59
It would've been more appropriate for Viral to be the vagabond, telling the story of the Dai-gurren-dan to the next generation, while Simon leads the grand adventure into space.
Yep. That's why a great number of us were expecting the "endless battles" reverb of the prologue - it fits the themes of the show a lot better. However, it doesn't work with Simon's character since he's a humble person, having needless adventures isn't really his deal - contrast that with Garlock, who is quite aloof and acts like he does stuff for the lulz.
So, I guess that's why Gainax inverted Viral and Simon's roles on this. Not true to the themes, but true to the characters? At least Simon's character, anyway. It's not like Viral's going to die anytime soon, and he had his vagabond days during the original time-skip.
Ninjacat
2007-09-30, 03:02
I loved the ending, it was wonderfully fitting. The battle was awesome in a totally over-the-top way, and they gave us a very cool ending. I'm really curious to see the subs, the writing often adds a lot of dept to the show.
I don't think Simon and Nia gave up. They just decided to deal with it the spiral way, sure Simon could have prevented Nia's death, and Simon could make himself young forever, immortal. Just like the anti spirals. And Simon wasn't gonna repeat the mistakes of those who came before him.
But death is part of evolution, the old must go for the younger generation to realise their full potential. That's why Simon seems so at peace as Nia fades away... and why he decided to become a wanderer. Hed had to go away to let humanity find it's own way, instead of blindly following him. He didn't want to become a god-king.
Am I the only one who think old Simon is awesome and would absolutely love to see a story about him?:D
CSakuraS
2007-09-30, 03:10
Am I the only one who think old Simon is awesome and would absolutely love to see a story about him?:D
No, you're not. I've always been a fan of the mysterious wanderer who is far more than what he/she seems and everyone takes him/her for granted until he/she suddenly reveals themselves to be totally badass. I liked that about Yoko's story in episode 21 too. :D
Am I the only one who think old Simon is awesome and would absolutely love to see a story about him?:D
I totally agree with your views on the episode, especially the part about Simon, who in my opinion had been carrying the entirety of humanity forward (even Kamina, as per Kamina's admission to Yoko in Ep. 11) his entire life, letting humanity (who are all learning how to develop "drills" of their own) find it's own way with out him to rule it.
And I quite like Oldster Simon as well, and hope he at least shows up in any sequel.
Sanjuronord
2007-09-30, 03:12
I suppose I'd give the episode a 7 (5/5 for the episode itself and then 2/5 as the ending of the series).
I have nothing against ending a series with a bittersweet ending like they did in this series. I just don't think it was the right ending for this particular series. In a more serious anime that would be fine but this one has been ridiculous from the get go so I'd have liked for Simon to save Nia and the two get to be together. They've killed so many people already that it just seems pointless to kill Nia at this point. Simon has enough people that live on in his heart or whatever, it was high time someone lived by his side for once.
I think the only other ending that I would have found appropriate was for Simon and her to die together, maybe saving everyone else. Basically if Nia wasn't going to be allowed to live than neither should Simon. His ending was just so out of whack of where I saw his character headed. I guess they could have also gone the buddy route and had him and Viral shoot off into space for another adventure.
I think it's really just the epilogue that kills it for me. At least Simon leaving his wedding after Nia dematerializes was open-ended enough and made Simon look pretty awesome with the way that he dealt with her death. Then the epilogue just made Simon look so pitiful that I couldn't stand it. Really, only a few of the characters looked alright in that epilogue and those were the ones still in their fighter roles: Viral, Gimmy, and Darry. Also, check out the guys sitting upside down on the ceiling in the Cathedral Terra in that Viral scene. Freaking sweet!
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 03:12
Am I the only one who think old Simon is awesome and would absolutely love to see a story about him?:D
Already done, it's called Mushishi.
W-General
2007-09-30, 03:14
Agreed. The series would've still been great up to the point of the epilogue. Add in the epilogue and it just failed. It felt so inconsistent when compared with the rest of the series and what the series has been telling us.
I suppose I'd give the episode a 7 (5/5 for the episode itself and then 2/5 as the ending of the series).
I have nothing against ending a series with a bittersweet ending like they did in this series. I just don't think it was the right ending for this particular series. In a more serious anime that would be fine but this one has been ridiculous from the get go so I'd have liked for Simon to save Nia and the two get to be together. They've killed so many people already that it just seems pointless to kill Nia at this point. Simon has enough people that live on in his heart or whatever, it was high time someone lived by his side for once.
I think the only other ending that I would have found appropriate was for Simon and her to die together, maybe saving everyone else. Basically if Nia wasn't going to be allowed to live than neither should Simon. His ending was just so out of whack of where I saw his character headed. I guess they could have also gone the buddy route and had him and Viral shoot off into space for another adventure.
I think it's really just the epilogue that kills it for me. At least Simon leaving his wedding after Nia dematerializes was open-ended enough and made Simon look pretty awesome with the way that he dealt with her death. Then the epilogue just made Simon look so pitiful that I couldn't stand it. Really, only a few of the characters looked alright in that epilogue and those were the ones still in their fighter roles: Viral, Gimmy, and Darry. Also, check out the guys sitting upside down on the ceiling in the Cathedral Terra in that Viral scene. Freaking sweet!
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 03:17
Agreed. The series would've still been great up to the point of the epilogue. Add in the epilogue and it just failed. It felt so inconsistent when compared with the rest of the series and what the series has been telling us.
Sort of like Harry Potter, really. =/
Sanjuronord
2007-09-30, 03:27
Agreed. The series would've still been great up to the point of the epilogue. Add in the epilogue and it just failed. It felt so inconsistent when compared with the rest of the series and what the series has been telling us.
Like five minutes after posting that I thought about Nia's butler (Coco?). Damn, he looked so pitiful waiting for her to come back and then once she gets back, she dies. He was at the wedding standing next to Rossiu in the front but you never see him once after she dematerializes. Damn, that is just too much...
Agreed. The series would've still been great up to the point of the epilogue. Add in the epilogue and it just failed. It felt so inconsistent when compared with the rest of the series and what the series has been telling us.
I understand your opinion, but I fail to see how the ending was inconsistent with the rest of the series. The entire series has been about people pushing forward and making a way for themselves despite hardship (interestingly, the same theme as EVA). Yeah it was unfortunate Nia had to leave his side just when Simon got her back, and yeah it's disappointing that we don't see a romantic, young Simon fly off to defeat the Spiral Nemesis, but Simon knew that defeating the Anti Spirals would kill Nia, and he found out half way through the fight. But because Nia told Simon to keep going, he trusted her and won, even though it would cost him again.
Every big win in the series has cost Simon, in ep. 8 he lost Kamina, in ep. 17 his victory against Teplin cost him the Nia he loved, and now even though he's defeated the Anti Spirals and saved the world and got back the "real" Nia, he has to give her up again. But even still, Simon soldiers on, just like humanity in the series who came from dirt to civilization, and at the end Simon gets to live his life with out the burden of the fate of world on his shoulders. In terms of the series, Simon drilled the path for humankind, and now they will strive to follow it and make it their own, which I think is exactly the natural path of the show. In summary, Kamina's father >Kamina>Simon>Dai Gurren Dan>Mankind.
I think that this ending was perfect, and any of the alternate endings that you people came up with would actually be the complete failures.
Simon's duty was done. There really wasn't a need for him anymore, and he's not really a person that would act all gung-ho like you people suggest (that's actually Kamina, which Simon is not). Simon never had a sense of adventure to start with, either. Simon was only a simple, lowly digger, after all. He starts off as one in the beginning, he establishes himself as one in episode eleven, and that was the actual core of his character. He only acted when people depended on him, and since everybody started to act on their own, there was no more reason to act.
Everybody had their own identities and roles to play. Yoko was a teacher. Viral was a fighter. Rossiu was a leader. And so, to allow people to live their own lives, he decided to live out his own, in his way.
Deathkillz
2007-09-30, 04:15
You know what...I knew it all along...at the bck of my head I just knew that...
Nia was going to die in this episode. Still I didn't know that it would be this painful. This series has a natural theme to kill off the main characters but I guess that is what makes it so dam good in te first place! Some series should take this as an example and to not be afraid to kill off your main characters dammit!
Anyway back onto the ep...FRICKING EPIX I TELL YA!
Words cannot even describe how i felt about the fight - it was just insane! I mean just look at lord genome - If I was female, I would fall for that hunk of manly GAR in a heartbeat :D
well anyways I guess the important thing is what happened...Simon and Nia knew what was coming so they didnt go in circles again and got straight to the point. Emotional scene! really it was...Simon has accepted this as fact and knows that mourning about it wont make a difference, yet i see his heart breaking :sad:
The dude is really tough, throughout the whole series he has lost important people in his life and still he is able to stand strong...now that must worth something. *sniffs**sniffs*
I see that some people are dissatisified with the epilogue but I am failing to understand why.
I think it is because Simon was denied his happy ending but this just gives us just that bit more realism imo. This shows that the good guys doesn't always win and having such a bitter/sweet ending makes the series special for creating something memorable. I agree that Simon looks kinda pitiful in the epilogue but you have to understand that his time has past. He isn't immortal and so he cannot stay a hero anymore (imagine asking grandad Simon to fight again, impossible!). He is a hero of the past and it is evident that he will be forgotten soon enough by the new generations, but he doesn't care about fame. That is the beauty of this end. As a warrior he has earned his peace.
Oh, btw... Kamikawa "Anti-Spiral" was absolutely amazingly well acted.
"Infinity Big-Bang Storm!!!" hissatsuwaza shout sounded like a veteran VA!
It's hard to imagine that this is his first anime VA experience. :heh:
Although we all knew this from Disney films (which feature hollywood actors) already, he proved that a good actor can voice act too. :D
musashiken
2007-09-30, 04:20
I think that this ending was perfect, and any of the alternate endings that you people came up with would actually be the complete failures.
And having Nia live with Simon is a failure as well? How heartless are you? Does no one not believe in happy endings anymore?
Also.. about ep1/end..
During the final scene, Simon does have the same "moving chains noise" from episode one (and that's definitely Boota on board Chouginga Gurren Lagann.. and he has the core drill and the cape..), I don't think it's terribly hard to imagine more to the story being produced down the line (OVA.. film?!) that reveals that there's more to the Spiral Nemesis (or something), having Simon return to protect the universe.. that is if the sequence wasn't a dream or merely to throw us off.. (also, after the credits, it plays that "flying through a cosmic drain" sequence, as if something could be beginning.. possibly.. or it's just a camera sequence.. haha)
from 2ch
short summary of ep27.
AS "Take care of the universe..."
Simon "Of course I will!"
Simon "Rossiu, take care of the universe. kthxbye"
All humor intended. :rolleyes:
Bah. I went to sleep last night thinking we had our GOOD END; well in the end it's not really a bad end, but it's pretty bittersweet. I would have liked it better if they just ended the series with GARlock instead of giving us that shitty unnecessary epilogue. It's painful to see Simon becoming just a nameless hobo after all he's done, he should have died in battle like a real GAR man. Kinda reminded of Kenshiro at the end of HnK, when he leaves saying he doesn't need a name on his grave, and that he'll die in the desert of battle.
I also felt Gimmy getting the core drill was a little forced, Simon and him never seemed close. If anyone, he should have given it to Viral (he has Spiral energy now, hasn't he? Plus he's immortal). Oh well.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 04:54
During the final scene, Simon does have the same "moving chains noise" from episode one (and that's definitely Boota on board Chouginga Gurren Lagann.. and he has the core drill and the cape..), I don't think it's terribly hard to imagine more to the story being produced down the line (OVA.. film?!) that reveals that there's more to the Spiral Nemesis (or something), having Simon return to protect the universe.. that is if the sequence wasn't a dream or merely to throw us off.. (also, after the credits, it plays that "flying through a cosmic drain" sequence, as if something could be beginning.. possibly.. or it's just a camera sequence.. haha)
Oh, so that's how we label spoilers. I didn't know how to do that for the longest time, though I've done it by accident before. :heh:
Anyway, there's definitely potential for a second season. I mean, heck, could people really deny a "Great Dimensional Government" sometime down the road after what Rossiu said both before and during the epilogue? With the Anti-Spiral Tribe gone, the next logical opponent would be that which inherits his position in the galaxy, so we'd have the Spiral Races fighting amongst themselves.
Interestingly, I'm watching another show that focuses on those very themes, Ideon. Love it, love it~. :)
Oh, btw... Kamikawa "Anti-Spiral" was absolutely amazingly well acted.
"Infinity Big-Bang Storm!!!" hissatsuwaza shout sounded like a veteran VA!
It's hard to imagine that this is his first anime VA experience. :heh:
Although we all knew this from Disney films (which feature hollywood actors) already, he proved that a good actor can voice act too. :D
I agree, he was a bit shaky at first but I grew to adore his voice. Quite a good call on Gainax's part! GL has been a theatre for both established and rising voice actor talent.
Kang Seung Jae
2007-09-30, 06:03
I think that this ending was perfect, and any of the alternate endings that you people came up with would actually be the complete failures.
Simon's duty was done. There really wasn't a need for him anymore, and he's not really a person that would act all gung-ho like you people suggest (that's actually Kamina, which Simon is not). Simon never had a sense of adventure to start with, either. Simon was only a simple, lowly digger, after all. He starts off as one in the beginning, he establishes himself as one in episode eleven, and that was the actual core of his character. He only acted when people depended on him, and since everybody started to act on their own, there was no more reason to act.
Everybody had their own identities and roles to play. Yoko was a teacher. Viral was a fighter. Rossiu was a leader. And so, to allow people to live their own lives, he decided to live out his own, in his way.
Except for saying that any alternate endings would be a failure, I agree with your overall ideas.
Dave1988
2007-09-30, 06:04
I was watching it with my mout agape.
Perfect 10 from me.
Goddamn it GAINAX. You did it. You really did it. You created the best anime ever.
Oh, so that's how we label spoilers. I didn't know how to do that for the longest time, though I've done it by accident before. :heh:
Anyway, there's definitely potential for a second season. I mean, heck, could people really deny a "Great Dimensional Government" sometime down the road after what Rossiu said both before and during the epilogue? With the Anti-Spiral Tribe gone, the next logical opponent would be that which inherits his position in the galaxy, so we'd have the Spiral Races fighting amongst themselves.
Interestingly, I'm watching another show that focuses on those very themes, Ideon. Love it, love it~. :)
Simon told the kid "All the heavenly lights are stars. Stars where out Spiral allies wait for us."
Aide said in episode 1 "Are all the lights in the heavens our enemy?"
This was pretty much set up for a second season.
Dave1988
2007-09-30, 06:22
So did GAINAX make any announcements?
Onizuka-GTO
2007-09-30, 06:23
just wondering, though.
diebuster (TWN2) is current the holder of the largest mecha, gunbuster (TWN1) holds the record for destroy/killing the most number of enemies on screen with one single shot.
Just wondering if this series just took both these records?
a case of gainax breaking there own records?
IMSabbel
2007-09-30, 06:34
Simon told the kid "All the heavenly lights are stars. Stars where out Spiral allies wait for us."
Aide said in episode 1 "Are all the lights in the heavens our enemy?"
This was pretty much set up for a second season.
Especially with the fact that they mention some kind of "spiral peace conference"...
You wouldnt need a peace conference without war...
Ninjacat
2007-09-30, 07:32
Bah. I went to sleep last night thinking we had our GOOD END; well in the end it's not really a bad end, but it's pretty bittersweet. I would have liked it better if they just ended the series with GARlock instead of giving us that shitty unnecessary epilogue. It's painful to see Simon becoming just a nameless hobo after all he's done, he should have died in battle like a real GAR man. Kinda reminded of Kenshiro at the end of HnK, when he leaves saying he doesn't need a name on his grave, and that he'll die in the desert of battle.
I also felt Gimmy getting the core drill was a little forced, Simon and him never seemed close. If anyone, he should have given it to Viral (he has Spiral energy now, hasn't he? Plus he's immortal). Oh well.
Giving it to Viral would have been missing the point, it's all about passing the torch to the YOUNGER generation, remember?
And Simon becoming a nameless hobo? Didi you look at the guy? There's a huge difference between a nameless hobo and the Badass Wanderer. Simon look like he's having a blast:cool:
I agree with the possibility of a second season, there's just too many tantalizing juicy bits shown. A twenty years gap, Simon's metallic noises when he walks, new chalenges for humanity...
Well, I watched the final episode and Gainax really did an impressive job on it. Technically it's outstanding and plotwise it's also very good, but (you probably saw this coming) in the end I gave it a 9 instead of 10. 10, with me, is the mark for episodes that satisfy me on an emotional level and for much the same reasons aohige and others mentioned, I didn't feel satisfied.
Seeing Simon "The Spiral Hobo" in the end wasn't, at least in my opinion, what the series preached all 27 episodes long, e.g. realize your dreams through the power of your belief, honor the dead, but don't get consumed by the loss, and so on. When Rossiu tried to be a realist at the beginning of the timeskip arc, he got his ass handed to him for his effort and shown the error of his ways (well he did other things wrong as well, but that was basically the message of his arc). Also showing Simon in this frame of mind at that age also has a certain finality to it. Is that what Nia would have wanted? Take my all time favourite Giant Robo for example. The characters also had their fair share of loss and melodrama, but in the end Imagawa let us believe that the stories for the heroes we came to love will continue, even if we don't get to see it firsthand, which perfectly fit with the grand pathos of the rest of the series. Gainax' very own Gunbuster had also a wonderful uplifting end for the main characters, that, while bittersweet, still left the future for our two main characters wide open.
While the epilogue sure is a nice ending, I'd have prefered to let our heroes from Gurren Lagann stay larger than life, rather than let "real life" catch up with them and show it to us. In essence, though everything else was nigh perfect, it still was "only" a 9 for me.
Deathkillz
2007-09-30, 08:04
How the heck is simon a hobo? hes just a hermit - or if you will a free spirit just like his father :3
sure the series was teaching to look forward to the future and all that but simon isnt exactally down in the dumps or i dont see him as being that. There is basically nothing more he can do and so chose to leave on travel - hes not exactly a ruler type either hence why rossiu is here (and zomg his face!! IT BURNS!!! XD).
I dont believe that simon is moping around in despair as he clearly accepted it as fact. He is tired from all that has happened and through countless life threatening situations cant you guys accept that he wants some peace!! moving away from politics and from friends that will be awkward to be with (poor yoko ;___; i bet she is still single) is the best choice for him to live out the remainder of his life. How knows? he might come back in a few year time to his friends.
anyway heres my summary if anyone wants :)
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann!! - Episode 27 Final - (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/09/30/tengan-toppa-gurren-lagann-episode-27-final/)
I also don't get the hobo, Simon is in despair, is this what Nia would have wanted!? talk either. He said he's just a driller and that's what he returned to being. The only time Simon went to go fight was for someone else's sake. He looked content with his life in general at the end. He's a guy wandering around, probably helping people and enjoying the peace he was responsible for giving the world. Both Nia and himself accepted what was going on, so I find it hard to believe he's somehow thrown his life away.
He did what he could do, saved Nia and when her life came to an end, he went out on his own. I never saw them as larger then life. They had flaws, they sometimes failed and some of their comrades died. The show was in part about the power of the human spirit so of course eventually they'll go down the path all humans do - aging. I thought it was touching.
I also wouldn't rule out that somewhere in that 20 years he had a few more epic battles suitable for an OVA or something. It was a fantastic ending to me.
Aye, even if they did make an OVA or something..it'd probably be somewhere in that 20 years timespan. So the epilogue you see now is still pretty much the "definite end." Unless they do a WTF SPIRAL POWAAA YOUTH!! :P.
It's frustrating to see Simon wandering around like that. But I also don't think he's in despair. Is he lonely? Yeah, looking at him like that make me feel sad too. He lost a lot, and he's now tired. He had the burden of the whole world (and perhaps the whole universe) on his shoulder ever since he was only 14. This, to me, is more of a deserved break for him.
But as everyone here, I do think Gainax have room for more after this. The world of Gurren Lagann has the possibilities to show us more. However, that also gives Gainax more room to F up :P.
Simon told the kid "All the heavenly lights are stars. Stars where out Spiral allies wait for us."
Aide said in episode 1 "Are all the lights in the heavens our enemy?"
This was pretty much set up for a second season.
And don't forget that... "Who do you think I am?" line totally echoes the same line in the first episode. There can totally be something to show Simon regaining that GARness.
fishballs
2007-09-30, 10:34
Simons a virgin thats why he became a hermit, unless he made a bunch of babies on his travels...
KBTKaiser
2007-09-30, 10:59
To quote Simon when he left the ceremony,
S: "I'll leave it to you, Rossiu."
R: "Simon-san!"
S: "Because I'm hole-drilling Simon. I'll leave it to someone better to follow through the hole I dug"
G: "Leave it to me."
He left it up to Gimmy and Rossiu to make things work after he brute force'd the Anti-spiral problem to open the hole. And to quote Leeron in the 20 year epilogue,
L: "Don't worry. I'm sure he's watching over us from someplace. That's the kind of man he is."
so after reassessing the whole thing, does anyone else think the guy in the opening scene is Gimmy? i mean he has the core drill, and Boota would be that old by now.
so after reassessing the whole thing, does anyone else think the guy in the opening scene is Gimmy?
If Boota wasn't there, I would say yes. But since he is... no.
X_Danny_X
2007-09-30, 11:10
Omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Darn It!!! How Many Endings Are The Japanese Going To Create That Are Bittersweet Or Are Sad!!!!
Why O Why, I Wanted Simon And Nia To Be Together!!! There Better Be An Afterlife After What Simon Said Of His Friends Waiting For Him In The End.
But Why O Why Did It Had To End Like This Argggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg ggggggggggggggggggggg
Simons a virgin thats why he became a hermit, unless he made a bunch of babies on his travels...
The wedding wasn't immediately after they got back, you know.
Its interesting, in the end Simon and Yoko had the same fate. They lost the people they cared for and lived their lives helping others outside of the spot light.
With all the GAR uber spiral people dead or gone, what happens when another enemy on caliber of the AS appears? Genome's gone, Simon's wandering the world, and who has GL? Gimmy, someone who has shown not-so super spiral power potential. Maybe they will clone Genome next? Not just save his head.
Ninjacat
2007-09-30, 11:26
The wedding wasn't immediately after they got back, you know.
And I highly those two spent the seven years before the moon crisis just cuddling, if you know what I mean;)
Garlock could be Darry, Aide is about Garlock's age and human Boota was depicted as about as old as Darry. Eighter that or it's Simon somewhere in the twenty years gap.
... I wouldn't mind an OVA series right now... :p
Nightengale
2007-09-30, 11:28
Well, there's got to be OTHER Spiral Knight equivalents at other Spiral Being planets... even if the Spiral Knights were mostly wiped out, one Lordgenome class Spiral Power weilder per-planet shouldn't be all that far-fetched, considering that Earth alone has around 3 at least. (( Genome, Boota, Simon. ))
Lordgenome's ex-comrades, or something.
Steel Guardian
2007-09-30, 12:20
Well hey, didn't the creator himself describe Gurren-Lagann's ending to be a "heroic failure" of a sort? I personally liked the ending. We at least got closure on the characters, Gainax could've easily left us with the "ROCKS FALL, EVERYONE DIES" ending than something like that.
Deathkillz
2007-09-30, 12:29
To quote Simon when he left the ceremony,
S: "I'll leave it to you, Rossiu."
R: "Simon-san!"
S: "Because I'm hole-drilling Simon. I'll leave it to someone better to follow through the hole I dug"
G: "Leave it to me."
He left it up to Gimmy and Rossiu to make things work after he brute force'd the Anti-spiral problem to open the hole. And to quote Leeron in the 20 year epilogue,
L: "Don't worry. I'm sure he's watching over us from someplace. That's the kind of man he is."
hahaha!...i can so imagine rossiu's face when he said that XD
In my opinion, Simon's eyes through the episode say a lot. After he realized by Nia's emotions she was a goner he pretty much became a melancholic warrior in the veins of Harlock or Kenshiro. I doubt the hole in his heart will ever be filled again, though... but that's why it is bittersweet.
Tempest35
2007-09-30, 13:20
Aww man, this will depress me for a good two days~!! Sucks like hell, and the usual 'hey, that's life' does NOT cut it. Going through all of that: losing many of the friends you've known since you were waist high to them, near betrayal, the one you love the most 'turns' on you - to come out on top despite all that...and lose the only real reason you fought so hard for... *funk town*
Yeah, it will take me two days to pull myself out of this... Despite that, it was an excellent series.
My only gripe is that the rest of the Spirals didn't really help - they were just looking on. They need a few 'EPIC' punches in my opinion.
I dunno, the ending is a little bittersweet because of what happened to Nia but she did become free and got to die on her own terms, not killed by the Anti-Spiral. However, Simon looks largely content with what happened even if a bit saddened. The series has the usual "Be strong, by yourself, and fight for what you want" message and Simon did that.
Simon is a digger/excavator. That's what and who he is. He's dug the holes for people to get through and left it up to the others to make heads or tails of what came after. So for him to go back and become a man that helps others even without taking all the credit is a lot like him. I suspect that even if Nia had survived, they probably would've retreated to a quiet life helping others and left guiding humanity to the future for Rossiu as it was a bit ordained for him, it seems.
Well all i can say is Thank you and godman you Gainax at the same time, this without a doubt was the best peice of work they have done and without a doubt best anime of the year. I'm not afraid to admit i cried with both Joy and sadness and my jaw hit the floor several times over the fight and the epilouge sequences sheer beauty.
Never again will i be naive enough though to think Gainiax will ever give us a truly happy ending and any future shows they make, if i ever have the courage to watch them i will go into them knowing what to expect.
As for the series as a whole well it kept getting bigger and bigger until nothing else could compare to it, one of gainax's finest peaces of works, nothing will will ever quite come close to it at least not for quite some time. And the ending well let's not say it was bad but rather i felt slightley let down after watching the series from the very first time the first episode aired, it feelt as if i just wasted half a year but at the same time i loved doing so.
None the less seeing Gainax has decided to milk Gurren Laggan for all it's worth i hope they will make at least an OVA of some sort and if i ever will be able to find all the issues i'd like to see how the manga adaption differs from the series.
I have enjoyed the show and my time on this board, it was fun talking and debating with you all and i hope that will see you on other boards. I am only left with the though now though of what anime i will be able to watch next due to how much i enjoyed Gurren Lagann and currently i can only think of one 'Baccano!' which i am currently enjoying and as will you probably too.
White Rice
2007-09-30, 14:52
In the end GL isn't a love story, it's a story about one man's struggle in life. In the end with the end of his struggle comes his freedom at a price.
That's what I think.
Simon turned out to be a defention of a hero, someone who never knows happiness but brings it to others.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 15:07
just wondering, though.
diebuster (TWN2) is current the holder of the largest mecha, gunbuster (TWN1) holds the record for destroy/killing the most number of enemies on screen with one single shot.
Just wondering if this series just took both these records?
a case of gainax breaking there own records?
Diebuster is not the biggest mech, that is a title held by Getter Emperor, who extends the radius of the solar system and is constantly growing. Biggest robot measurements from /m/ a while back (there's another topic there but I need to read it) -
Ideon: 105m
King J-Der: 110m
Daitarn 3: 120m
Ark Gurren-Lagann: 180m 300m?
Gunbuster: 220m
Chou Ginga Gurren-Lagann: 3.6Mm
Diebuster: 12.8Mm
Deucalion: 63.5Mm
Getter Emperor: 7.4Tm
Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann: 926Em 38.16Mm?
Conversion chart:
1000km = 1Mm
1000Mm = 1Gm
1000Gm = 1Tm
1000Tm = 1Pm
1000Pn = 1Em
Conclusion: Tengen Toppa is HUGE, however, this information is very skewed since Tengen Toppa's size is very inconsistent and dubious.
First of all, it only exists in "hyper spiral space", which is codeword for "LOL PHYSICS" - nothing normal applies here. Notice Earth appears roughly the same size as some GALAXIES. Now, that's impossible. Not to mention Anti-Spiral reaches down and plucks down galaxies like apples - if any of you saw The Flight of Dragons movie and heard Ommadon's discussion with Peter, throwing galaxies like that is impossible because of depth perception and time dilation.
Not to mention at the centre of most galaxies are black holes, hence "Spiral Nemesis" - the super-massive black holes eat each other and become big enough to suck in the universe, where upon all matter being reduced to singularity, the black hole dies and another Big Bang happens. Thus, turning two galaxies into an energy blast can't happen in real-space either. Fire can't breath in normal space too, but that might just be spiral/anti-spiral energy.
We can thus infer that final battle was almost like a dream theatre, but with "real" actors who get affected by it. End result is...let's just say Getter Emperor still has his throne, I don't think Nakajima pays homage to Go Nagai by breaking his ultimate robo's record.
Same with Tomino and Ideon, no one has come up with something quite that powerful since it first came out. Not even Gunbuster is on Ideon's level, it's a true terror.
Tempest35
2007-09-30, 15:10
I dunno, the ending is a little bittersweet because of what happened to Nia but she did become free and got to die on her own terms, not killed by the Anti-Spiral. However, Simon looks largely content with what happened even if a bit saddened. The series has the usual "Be strong, by yourself, and fight for what you want" message and Simon did that.
Simon is a digger/excavator. That's what and who he is. He's dug the holes for people to get through and left it up to the others to make heads or tails of what came after. So for him to go back and become a man that helps others even without taking all the credit is a lot like him. I suspect that even if Nia had survived, they probably would've retreated to a quiet life helping others and left guiding humanity to the future for Rossiu as it was a bit ordained for him, it seems.
Rossiu's had it in him all this while to be a great leader. While he's not as inspirational as Kamina or Simon or even Kittan, he's learned from them and he can make the tough decisions while the others go in, guns blazing. It's a new era and they don't need that any more - the 'true' battle's over and unless some of the other Spiral worlds end up causing fuss, we won't see any epic fights for a loooooooong time that require GODMODE Spiral power to be used.
Dave1988
2007-09-30, 15:30
Ideon: 105m
King J-Der: 110m
Daitarn 3: 120m
Ark Gurren-Lagann: 180m
Gunbuster: 220m
Chou Ginga Gurren-Lagann: 3.6Mm
Diebuster: 12.8Mm
Deucalion: 63.5Mm
Getter Emperor: 7.4Tm
Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann: 926Em
Conversion chart:
1000km = 1Mm
1000Mm = 1Gm
1000Gm = 1Tm
1000Tm = 1Pm
1000Pn = 1Em
We can thus infer that final battle was almost like a dream theatre, but with "real" actors who get affected by it. End result is...let's just say Getter Emperor still has his throne, I don't think Nakajima pays homage to Go Nagai by breaking his ultimate robo's record.
Wait... Going by your chart TTG-L is bigger than Getter Emperor by a GIGANTIC margin.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 15:41
Wait... Going by your chart TTG-L is bigger than Getter Emperor by a GIGANTIC margin.
It's dubious because of the reasons I outlined. If one uses relative scale, Tengen Toppa is only around ten times the height of Chou Ginga, placing it at 36,000km which is [almost] three times the height of Diebuster, but not even close to Getter Emperor's size.
It's dubious because of the reasons I outlined. If one uses relative scale, Tengen Toppa is only around ten times the height of Chou Ginga, placing it at 36,000km which is [almost] three times the height of Diebuster, but not even close to Getter Emperor's size.Come on, obviously the artist can't draw Earth & the Mecha to scale, because then you wouldn't be able to see anything.
Don't try to overanalyze it... are you going to say that every sci-fi movie where something explodes is a "dream theatre" since "fire can't breathe"?
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 17:19
Don't try to overanalyze it...
Pardon, you're on an anime webforum. I'll do what I want, thanks.
are you going to say that every sci-fi movie where something explodes is a "dream theatre" since "fire can't breathe"?
I don't understand the logistics of why explosions can't happen in space (I know they can't, but I don't see why) but there's some stuff I innately pass off for artistic effect so long as it doesn't affect the plot.
Same goes for ret-conned character deaths - Bachoun surviving the Battle of Tepperin doesn't really affect the plot in any way, so it's nothing to gripe about (actually, I think it's rather cool).
Dave1988
2007-09-30, 17:22
http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07401/1191186601006.jpg
4chan says: "The girl who represented the beauty of humanity and died with a smile on her face."
;_;
The more I read on the ending, the more fitting and beautiful it seems. Maybe it's just how amazing some guys at /m/ are.
Pardon, you're on an anime webforum. I'll do what I want, thanks.Right, I just thought the "fire in space" argument died 30 years ago with Star Wars.
Of course a silly anime like TTGL will mess with scale just to make things aesthetically pleasing. I mean, Gurren had a big wagging tongue back in episode 8.
That was amazing. It left me wanting more, but it also left me with a sense of satisfaction.
I can think of a thousand things they did wrong or could have done better, but it wouldn't matter. For all its faults and failures, it managed to be one of the greatest works I've ever seen. Certainly not something for every one, but something spectacular.
It was a little Gainax-y, but in a good way. Who else would pit the final battle in an arena where the laws of physics, and even reality, don't matter?
As for Nia, well... It's true that this does contradict the "all odds greater than zero are as good as 100%", but it illustrated something important: Accepting loss.
Throughout the series, the greatest sin is giving up, or resigning oneself to failure. That was ultimately the Anti-Spiral's sin, as well. This is different, though; accepting loss is not equivilant to accepting failure.
The show made it clear by the fact that he accepted this BEFORE winning the final battle. Prior to this, Simon dealt with loss by either giving up (just before and well after Kamina's passing) or by using it to fuel his passion (Kittan, et al). Now, he can accept this and seek success through absolute determination, passionate rage or not. This is maturing as a character.
That said... I don't like it. I think it's right, the only proper direction for the end, and if given the option I couldn't change it... but I don't like it AT ALL.
I've read speculation that the opening of the first episode was animated before the ending was planned, but whether or not that's the case, I see it as a glimpse of what happens "in between" the ending and the epilogue. It would likely be inappropriate to tell this part of the story, as it would be incredibly anti-climactic, but we rest assured that even if he's bowed out, Simon is there to fight should the need ever arise.
The one thing that bothered me about this is how Simon handing the drill to Gimmy at the wedding ceremony draws a direct line to Gimmy in the epilogue. It served as the visual message to Gimmy that Simon verbally gave to Rossiu. It was an excellent scene, but I think it could have been done without the core drill. That would have left things vague until the epilogue, where the Gimmy wearing the core drill makes things perfectly clear.
And that just leaves the mystery of Boota. Boota never PHYSICALLY changed forms. The humanoid form we saw was just an "alternate universe" mental image. Apparently, not being aware of Boota's self-awareness, the Anti-Spiral never put Boota into a dream-like state, so he was just in the "standard" alternate space. Comparing the this form to person in the first episode, a few details suggest that they aren't the same, and that would make Simon's assistant there is a mole-pig based beastman.
So why put the humanoid Boota in at all? Maybe they just wanted to further explore "Why wasn't Boota doing anything?" or "Let's talk a bit more about Boota and where he got that spiral energy." It does seem rather strange to bring it up and let it go like that, but oh well.
Of course, there's also the possibility that the episode 1 opening really was just the result of animating before they were done planning, or that whoever did the original planning had his ideas stomped on (but would that mean the final result is better or worse than the original vision?!). If either of those is the case, it still would have been trivially easy to keep Simon's outfit and add in a beastman to the crew (or actually make Boota human, if that was actually the original intention).
Either the scene is post-ending-pre-epilogue or some one at Gainax said "Screw continuity!"
musashiken
2007-09-30, 18:30
Bah I can never accept Nia's death. In the end everyone here just got suckered in by the top notch animation and the bittersweet "reality can never overcome impossible" ending. It is truly a signature LOL Gainax ending where the main heroine dies (Ayanami Rei? Nono? Mahoro?).
Makes me wonder when was the last time I actually saw an epic anime with a truly happy ending. Probably because most people here prefer sad endings since they make good endings.
I can't believe the writers were actually satisfied with the script. Unfortunately I doubt many will share my sentiments because many here probably don't want a happy ending and probably justify it with "oh, but it's more realistic this way etc" crap. Be satisfied with it all you want. But I can never accept it. And yes, I'm bitter that Nia is dead.
Edit: At least some Japanese feel the same way as I do.
ニアはな、ガイナに殺されたんだよ。
考えてみろよ、いくらアンチスパイラル因子を取り込んでいるからって、ロージェノムの娘なんだ ぜ？
アンチスパイラル自身じゃない。
例えばだ。人物写真があったとして、写ってる人物が死んだとする。
写ってる人物が死んだからといって、写真に写ってる物が消えるわけじゃ無いだろ？
ようするにニアが死んだのは、もの凄いこじ付け。屁理屈なんだよ。
ガイナは無理やり殺したのさ。死なせたかったから殺した。
さらに言うとだ。
シモンはアンチスパイラルを倒しに言ったわけじゃない。
ニアを助けにいったんだ。アンチスパイラルを倒したかったわけじゃない。
結果的にアンチスパイラルを倒して、アンチスパイラルという種族を本星ごと全滅させた。
ニアを助けたかっただけなのに、結局シモンは助けられなかったのさ。
つまりハッピーエンドに見せてるが、まったくハッピーエンドではない。
ガイナは死ね
What this viewer is basically saying:" GAINAX KILLED NIA. GAINAX SHOULD DIE"
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 18:47
@musashiken
"LOL GAINAX" endings are ambiguous, surreal, subjective, but nevertheless "happy" ones. Mahoro, This Ugly Yet Beautiful World, Evangelion and Abenobashi are all "LOL GAINAX".
This is the complete opposite - tragic, but crystal clear.
@ Kyuusai - it's always possible Garlock is an older version of Old Simon, we'll never know until Gainax makes more GL, and if that GL is in the same continuity. Personally, I hope it is, I don't want to watch another rewrite of the series for story as an OVA or even a movie - GL's fights are rather boring compared with other shows, there are limitations as to how a "drill" mech can fight, which is probably why it hasn't been a popular theme to use in the past.
The more I read on the ending, the more fitting and beautiful it seems. Maybe it's just how amazing some guys at /m/ are.
Yeah, the more I watch it, the less sad I feel about the ending, especially now that it has dialogue. Then again, I got news this morning that my old psychology teacher died of cancer, so maybe in comparison this was a happy ending. :(
He's an inspiration to me not unlike Kamina - reading his obituary at all the awesome stuff he did and hearing the same stuff in person as "not all that" is quite the difference. We each dig our own paths and each rotation of the drill gets us a little closer to our goals. Even if we die, we haven't truely lost, we just pass on our progress to the next generation.
Right, I just thought the "fire in space" argument died 30 years ago with Star Wars.
I'm aware of the SW issue, but what I never understood was why stuff with air inside of them can't explode in space. If there's an explosion inside a ship, of course it's going to suffocate as soon as it runs out of air, but why wouldn't we be able to see it? It emits light, right?
Bah I can never accept Nia's death. In the end everyone here just got suckered in by the top notch animation and the bittersweet "reality can never overcome impossible" ending. It is truly a signature LOL Gainax ending where the main heroine dies (Ayanami Rei? Nono? Mahoro?).
Makes me wonder when was the last time I actually saw an epic anime with a truly happy ending. Probably because most people here prefer sad endings since they make good endings.
I can't believe the writers were actually satisfied with the script. Unfortunately I doubt many will share my sentiments because many here probably don't want a happy ending and probably justify it with "oh, but it's more realistic this way etc" crap. Be satisfied with it all you want. But I can never accept it. And yes, I'm bitter that Nia is dead.
Anything Simon could've done to save Nia would've been nothing short of playing God. And that would've gone against everything that Simon fought for from the very beginning. All of the enemies that Simon went up against used their powers to decide a person's fate for their own noble reasons. Lordgenome suppressed the human race to save them from complete destruction. The Anti-Spirals destroyed entire races of Spirals to save the universe from collapsing. Noble reasons, yes, but they still determined a person's destiny. For Simon to have saved Nia, he would've walked down that very same path. She was happy, so Simon was satisfied.
And really, it's not like Nia is gone forever. She still lives on in Simon's heart, just like how Kamina lives on as well. It just seems that you're just unhappy with her happiness or something. :eyebrow:
musashiken
2007-09-30, 18:59
No, it's because the writers screwed up with the part about her body.
1. She was Genome's daughter and we all know she is originally human but with Anti Spiral coding.
2. Simon said that as long it's not 0%, he believes Nia will return to normal.
3. The fact that the anti-spirals were originally Spiral beings makes it even less sense that there's no way Simon can reverse Nia's anti-spiral to spiral.
There are a thousand ways to revert Nia back to human without Simon being God but Gainax didn't bother to, they just killed her off. It's easier to explain that way. And that's what I'm pissed about.
I'm aware of the SW issue, but what I never understood was why stuff with air inside of them can't explode in space. If there's an explosion inside a ship, of course it's going to suffocate as soon as it runs out of air, but why wouldn't we be able to see it? It emits light, right?Yes, it just wont be very spectacular. You'll only see oxygen burn up without a flame. I still don't know why we're discussing this with a silly anime like TTGL.
U<3Anime
2007-09-30, 19:26
Wow loss for words....Right of the beginning it already gets you pumped and then after that it's follow by like 20 minutes of straight adrenaline rush. After that, you see Simon and Nia getting married. It gives you a warm fuzzy feeling and manly tears are shed. However, whatever after that was like WHAT? NO!! GAINAX!!! why? WHY????? T_T I thought they would really make a truly happy ending with this series , but then they suddenly pull out a bitter sweet ending? I'm sure there are better ways to handle the ending then giving us what we got.
Bah I can never accept Nia's death. In the end everyone here just got suckered in by the top notch animation and the bittersweet "reality can never overcome impossible" ending. It is truly a signature LOL Gainax ending where the main heroine dies (Ayanami Rei? Nono? Mahoro?).
Makes me wonder when was the last time I actually saw an epic anime with a truly happy ending. Probably because most people here prefer sad endings since they make good endings.
I can't believe the writers were actually satisfied with the script. Unfortunately I doubt many will share my sentiments because many here probably don't want a happy ending and probably justify it with "oh, but it's more realistic this way etc" crap. Be satisfied with it all you want. But I can never accept it. And yes, I'm bitter that Nia is dead.
Edit: At least some Japanese feel the same way as I do.
What this viewer is basically saying:" GAINAX KILLED NIA. GAINAX SHOULD DIE"
Reading the "Nia Official Character Thread" in 2ch I noticed there are many, like 600 responses, Japanese otaku similar to you, specially as the episode itself managed to create some kind strong empathy towards her character and her quiet yet overwhelming will whenever you liked her or not. However, others are also satisfied how she overcame her status as a simplistic doll and lived if only one single day as a happy woman with the one thing she cared about.
Honestly speaking, I never understood what kind of appeal she had for me until this day. Perhaps some day I'll write on this so I'm able to compare my own reasons with the ones of others to understand why she gained this number of fans despite being called by some a "Canon Mary Sue".
And Nia wasn't exactly an Anti-Spiral, musashiken. She was fake virtual creation of their invention that managed to gain her own soul... very much like the muggans.
U<3Anime
2007-09-30, 19:39
No, it's because the writers screwed up with the part about her body.
1. She was Genome's daughter and we all know she is originally human but with Anti Spiral coding.
2. Simon said that as long it's not 0%, he believes Nia will return to normal.
3. The fact that the anti-spirals were originally Spiral beings makes it even less sense that there's no way Simon can reverse Nia's anti-spiral to spiral.
There are a thousand ways to revert Nia back to human without Simon being God but Gainax didn't bother to, they just killed her off. It's easier to explain that way. And that's what I'm pissed about.
Exactly how i felt. With an anime like Gurren Lagann, anything is possible. Even a little guy like Buta can gain and give out a huge burst of spiral energy. Even Kittan managed to pull of Giga Drill Breaker, so why it is not possible to keep Nia alive? Man they just had to kill her and give us such a bitter sweet ending. Which i find, kind of out place for Gurren Lagann and left me tingling with an unsatisfying feeling. I still think this episode deserves a 9/10 though because Gainax could have done worse with killing everybody or Simon loses and ends up like spiral king. I can only dream that they make an alternate for the DVD release *sigh*
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 19:47
There are a thousand ways to revert Nia back to human without Simon being God but Gainax didn't bother to, they just killed her off. It's easier to explain that way. And that's what I'm pissed about.
It wasn't a question about Gainax wanting to keep Nia alive, but rather that they wanted a bittersweet ending. Simon's loss is in itself is a homage to the tragic heroes of the past - Kenshiro, Harlock, and Joe Shimamura (originally, anyway). The ending was directed by themes in the show, even if those themes went against the main theme of "everything being possible".
It wasn't a question about Gainax wanting to keep Nia alive, but rather that they wanted a bittersweet ending. Simon's loss is in itself is a homage to the tragic heroes of the past - Kenshiro, Harlock, and Joe Shimamura (originally, anyway). The ending was directed by themes in the show, even if those themes went against the main theme of "everything being possible".
I have my own reasons for being satisfied with her demise, but that is for sure not one of them. Was the whole cast only there to become symbols of Simon's evolution through the series? Of course not. But Nia came to terms with her own destiny, she overcame being a doll, being fake and died with a warm smile on her face. That goes beyond what is worthy of being part of the storyline, it's about her character. About transforming her into a creature that goes beyond her existence as a plot device.
Kang Seung Jae
2007-09-30, 20:04
She was Genome's daughter and we all know she is originally human but with Anti Spiral coding.
Nia is NOT Genome's physical daughter.
Nia is NOT Genome's physical daughter.
Isn't she? This was never really explained. The one thing we know is her genetic existence was nothing more than an illusion created by the Anti-Spirals.
musashiken
2007-09-30, 20:16
Like I said, the writers screwed up with Nia's existence. From a discarded daughter in a box that's supposed to be created by Lord Genome to an animated doll from the Anti-spirals? Where's the connection?
Finally saw the finale proper. My thoughts haven't changed much from what I saw before. It's a natural conclusion to a series that has quickly become one of my favorites. Some of the best mecha action I've seen anywhere from anyone, a fine cast...can't wait for the DVDs to get here. Even Simon the Wanderer, at the very end, seems fitting now. He's the same friendly Simon he's been all this time, even before he discovered Lagann. Except now, he's got stories to tell and people to inspire, as he did with Kamina, the Gurren-dan...heck, everybody.
It deserves the perfect 10.
Isn't she? This was never really explained. The one thing we know is her genetic existence was nothing more than an illusion created by the Anti-Spirals.
There's a lot of junk that isn't explained in the series. All the half-complete explanations make it easier for fanboys to pick apart and go "It should've been this way with their explanation" and yada yada. Gainax probably should've kept the bare minimum explained. :heh:
That's not even getting into the sciency-sounding Technobabble that Genome's Head in a Tube loved spouting near the end. "Random Schroedinger Warp", "Super Spiral Space"...it sounds important, but all we know is that it's dangerous and it looks cool when Simon blows it up.
Like I said, the writers screwed up with Nia's existence. From a discarded daughter in a box that's supposed to be created by Lord Genome to an animated doll from the Anti-spirals? Where's the connection?
If nothing else, Nia had a Spiral Genome. A fake Spiral Genome hidden within the realms of possibilities by the Anti-Spirals but still an Spiral Genome. Supposedly, The Messenger was a creature hidden within the limitless combination of the double helix, Nia happened to be the one to suffer such an origin. That's pretty much all there is to it.
Exactly how i felt. With an anime like Gurren Lagann, anything is possible. Even a little guy like Buta can gain and give out a huge burst of spiral energy. Even Kittan managed to pull of Giga Drill Breaker, so why it is not possible to keep Nia alive? Man they just had to kill her and give us such a bitter sweet ending. Which i find, kind of out place for Gurren Lagann and left me tingling with an unsatisfying feeling. I still think this episode deserves a 9/10 though because Gainax could have done worse with killing everybody or Simon loses and ends up like spiral king. I can only dream that they make an alternate for the DVD release *sigh*
The whole show has been bittersweet. Kittan's family has a bittersweet ending obviously. Yoko lost two people she loved and probably lived out her days alone as a teacher. Viral obviously will never get the family he desires. Spiral power can do a lot, but they are still human. Kittan pulled the giga drill breaker off, but he's dead. Kamina died even when they were victorious. Same with a lot of other people. Simon saved Nia from the anti-spirals and she was happy and then her life ended. There has always been a balance in this show. Yes, it was sad she died but it's not out of place in the story.
musashiken
2007-09-30, 22:15
The whole show has been bittersweet. Kittan's family has a bittersweet ending obviously. Yoko lost two people she loved and probably lived out her days alone as a teacher. Viral obviously will never get the family he desires. Spiral power can do a lot, but they are still human. Kittan pulled the giga drill breaker off, but he's dead. Kamina died even when they were victorious. Same with a lot of other people. Simon saved Nia from the anti-spirals and she was happy and then her life ended. There has always been a balance in this show. Yes, it was sad she died but it's not out of place in the story.
Well at least all of them have something to look forward to for the future: Kittan's family still have descendants, Lette has her children, Yoko has her students, Viral has his fleet. What has Simon got? Closure? That's just lame. So what if he's a traveling hobo/vigilante/good samaritan/etc? All he does is watch after the world he saved. Sure, he's the hero, all heroes should be lonely and they should take backstage and look after the world once their job is done. Pft, at least give him a companion. Boota? Come on, who are we kidding? So we can't have Simon and Nia living in seclusion instead?
I'd think that having Nia survive and traveling around the world with Simon doing deeds in atonement would have made a better epilogue. Like the strange couple that saved some kid from some harmless sand monster looking for a snack, and the old geezer giving him a drill and the old lady giving him a pat on the head.
Malintex_Terek
2007-09-30, 23:00
I'd think that having Nia survive and traveling around the world with Simon doing deeds in atonement would have made a better epilogue. Like the strange couple that saved some kid from some harmless sand monster looking for a snack, and the old geezer giving him a drill and the old lady giving him a pat on the head.
Reminds me of Mononoke's ending for some reason, though they're only vaguely simmilar.
Nightengale
2007-09-30, 23:27
One of the things that annoyed me with Simon passing on the future to the...future with his whole Digger stint was firstly, I've always felt that one of the reasons Nia did what she did, believing in Simon even though she knew of Spiral Nemesis, was because she believed in Simon, she believed in his power that would overcome any odds, even a black hole of universes. She believed him wholeheartedly that he would save her, save the universe, he believed in his entirety.
But for Simon to go and do the "you do it, I'm just a digger." felt half-assed. Even ignoring the Anti-Spiral and his promise lol, it really felt like he was betraying a part of Nia's trust in him.
Not to mention that while living for the future is one theme of GL, there had been little actual development on passing on the future to the future generation as opposed to say Toward the Terra, especially on Gimmy's part. It really felt tacked on, since from the start, it had always been Simon's story.
Ninjacat
2007-09-30, 23:46
One of the things that annoyed me with Simon passing on the future to the...future with his whole Digger stint was firstly, I've always felt that one of the reasons Nia did what she did, believing in Simon even though she knew of Spiral Nemesis, was because she believed in Simon, she believed in his power that would overcome any odds, even a black hole of universes. She believed him wholeheartedly that he would save her, save the universe, he believed in his entirety.
But for Simon to go and do the "you do it, I'm just a digger." felt half-assed. Even ignoring the Anti-Spiral and his promise lol, it really felt like he was betraying a part of Nia's trust in him.
Not to mention that while living for the future is one theme of GL, there had been little actual development on passing on the future to the future generation as opposed to say Toward the Terra, especially on Gimmy's part. It really felt tacked on, since from the start, it had always been Simon's story.
... That's exactly why the story ended when Simon passed the torch. There's no reason to believe Simon hadn't made himself usefull in the following years, just not as some god-emperor.
That's the whole point! By refusing to take the anti-spiral mantle, he secured his victory. Nobody's playing god anymore, what Kamina set in motion is, at last, reality. Humanity is now free.
Besides, returning to being commander in chief would have been incredibly boring after basically killing God;)
If nothing else musashiken you should be happy at the depiction of Nia during the episode, as they "got" her beautifully.
Ive been thinking about the whole Nia and Genome issue and i have a theory. Nia is probably his only real daughter but in episode 11 Guame mentions that all of those girls in that town are sent to Genome to act as one. Maybe the reason Genome was throwing them away was to prevent the anti spiral messenger from awakening. Maybe back when he was defeated the anti spiral told him about it and he wasnt sure who it would be so he killed them all. His conversation with Nia in 27 shows that he regrets what he did and that it wasnt the only way to handle it. After being with Simon so long he realized that you can do things differently. Instead of doing what the anti spirals wanted and keeping people under ground he could have fought back and kicked their ass. Viral's comment is probably refering to this realization.
or it's just that the writters messed up.....
But either way it doesnt bother me much. The overall emotional impact of Genome's last attack was still amazing. btw does anyone think that drill with his face on it was a reference to G gundam?
RyougaElliot
2007-10-01, 00:31
Genome's rise to awesomeness made me squee with delight. Talk about a helluva come back. His final moment of greatness just blew me away.
This whole finale did.
GL= Better than sliced bread. It has been decided.
Nightengale
2007-10-01, 01:09
Ive been thinking about the whole Nia and Genome issue and i have a theory. Nia is probably his only real daughter but in episode 11 Guame mentions that all of those girls in that town are sent to Genome to act as one. Maybe the reason Genome was throwing them away was to prevent the anti spiral messenger from awakening. Maybe back when he was defeated the anti spiral told him about it and he wasnt sure who it would be so he killed them all. His conversation with Nia in 27 shows that he regrets what he did and that it wasnt the only way to handle it. After being with Simon so long he realized that you can do things differently. Instead of doing what the anti spirals wanted and keeping people under ground he could have fought back and kicked their ass. Viral's comment is probably refering to this realization.
or it's just that the writters messed up.....
But either way it doesnt bother me much. The overall emotional impact of Genome's last attack was still amazing. btw does anyone think that drill with his face on it was a reference to G gundam?
No, ANY SPIRAL BEING could've been the Messenger. Hell, it could've even been Simon. It was just downright plain irony that it turned out to be Nia.
No, ANY SPIRAL BEING could've been the Messenger. Hell, it could've even been Simon. It was just downright plain irony that it turned out to be Nia.
well i was really just trying to explain why he would want to kill all of his daughters. I don't think it's just because they questioned thier existance. Genome is not evil and we know that because he was one of the originall spiral knights and even though he forced people under ground he had good intentions so i don't think he would kill Nia and his other daughters that easily. But another thing that i noticed about Genome before the time skip was that he refered to the gurren dan as humans as if he was'nt one. Theres also that part in 15 where he's in the middle of fighting Simon and he mentions someone that he fought before in a similar way. Who could this be? Kamina's dad? Someone we don't know? Maybe the anti spirals?
Malintex_Terek
2007-10-01, 01:54
No, ANY SPIRAL BEING could've been the Messenger. Hell, it could've even been Simon. It was just downright plain irony that it turned out to be Nia.
It was also a blessing.
Imagine, if it wasn't Nia who was the messenger, the Anti-Spiral messenger wouldn't have had feelings for Simon the Digger (incidentally, Simon was so powerful a pilot because spiral power coincided with his digging ability - it's what he's best at applied in an unconventional manner) and the world would have ended with the Chou Ginga Dai Gurren crashing into the planet.
DmonHiro
2007-10-01, 02:42
I can't belive I got Gainax'd AGAIN. I was a fool to think they could pull off a goon end. I mean come on...the whole god-damed show was about making the impossible possible, and they end it like THAT?
Yesmilord
2007-10-01, 02:44
Bittersweet is fine for this anime IMO. It was never a perfectly happy one to begin with. Sure there are several scenes that are hilarious, ridiculous, or larger than life, but the fact is even the greatest heroes aren't invincible and nothing can ever be perfect. Kamina's death is testament to this.
The anime is about, as stated in every freaking intro, a boy and his destiny. Notice how the narration changes each time as he grows, starting with a boy who has yet to discover his destiny all the way to one who rips a hole in the universe. GAINAX took the romance and decided to do something very smart with it: make it complementary. You don't want something mushy or easily reaching the heart to overpower the true message of this anime. The reason I feel that the anime is epic beyond proportion is the fact that it hammers, relentlessly, its morals into your head. Believe in yourself! Piece the heavens with your drill!
You'll note black and white differences between how Simon dealt with Kamina's death and Nia's death. This is a story about moving forward with all your might and the message is absolutely crystal clear.
Oh yea, I might be thinking too much about it, but note how very similar Yoko and Simon's character pathlines are. When she chucks the ring back at him in the end, I almost took it as a little consolation token of some sort for Simon. Anyone else think the same?
musashiken
2007-10-01, 02:57
If nothing else musashiken you should be happy at the depiction of Nia during the episode, as they "got" her beautifully.
Well yeah, I was touched by Nia and Simon sitting together in the cockpit ala Vandread (as I predicted). All those scenes of them hugging together in the cockpit put tears in my eyes. And Coco Jii finally speaking his first lines in the whole show when Nia returned to Earth. Nia in the wedding dress was oh so breath-taking. I was wiping tears from my eyes when suddenly NIA JUST STARTED TO FUCKING DISAPPEAR. What the fuck just happened??? And it's already over 3/4 of the episode!
If she had to disappear, disappear right after the battle damnit! Why wait till the last minute?? At least Nono and Ayanami Rei and Mahoro went off with a bang, but Nia just had to wait until she said "I do" before she packs up and leave? What the hell? Why torment me with such crap? If you got so much time to prepare for the wedding, why not go for some medical checkup while you're at it?
Bah whatever I'm ranting too much. Think I'll go cool myself. It's not like I don't understand the beauty and nobleness and "realness" of this bittersweet ending... I'm just still not prepared to accept it, to appreciate it yet. Come one week, and I'll probably be sprouting "Oh Nia, you died so beautifully..." or "I'll miss you Nia". But not now, not now.
Uhmmm just something off topic, did the writer forget to slot in the plot of the begining of the episode 1? where simon and bouta in human form (i presumed) were fighting with all the anti-spirals yet at the end i just see only 1?
CSakuraS
2007-10-01, 03:08
Well yeah, I was touched by Nia and Simon sitting together in the cockpit ala Vandread (as I predicted). All those scenes of them hugging together in the cockpit put tears in my eyes. And Coco Jii finally speaking his first lines in the whole show when Nia returned to Earth. Nia in the wedding dress was oh so breath-taking. I was wiping tears from my eyes when suddenly NIA JUST STARTED TO FUCKING DISAPPEAR. What the fuck just happened??? And it's already over 3/4 of the episode!
If she had to disappear, disappear right after the battle damnit! Why wait till the last minute?? At least Nono and Ayanami Rei and Mahoro went off with a bang, but Nia just had to wait until she said "I do" before she packs up and leave? What the hell? Why torment me with such crap? If you got so much time to prepare for the wedding, why not go for some medical checkup while you're at it?
Bah whatever I'm ranting too much. Think I'll go cool myself. It's not like I don't understand the beauty and nobleness and "realness" of this bittersweet ending... I'm just still not prepared to accept it, to appreciate it yet. Come one week, and I'll probably be sprouting "Oh Nia, you died so beautifully..." or "I'll miss you Nia". But not now, not now.
The way I see it, Nia was already dead once they defeated the Anti-Spiral; after that she was only holding on through sheer will, so to try and 'fix' her would be the same as bringing back the dead. I'm glad that she was able to stay alive up to that point because she was able to return to Earth and marry Simon, leaving the world the happiest that she's ever been.
Nia is my second favorite character in this series (right behind Simon), and while it breaks my heart that they weren't able to be together forever, I'm also glad that she left happy.
DmonHiro
2007-10-01, 03:13
I would have been WAY happier if she didn't leave at all. Come on! They just defeted a god........making Nia human could not have been harder
Truly amazing epic show. I haven't seen a recent show that's worked me up so much in awhile.
haiz123321
2007-10-01, 03:41
I didn't like the ending, i only gave this show a rating of 6 cause the fight was EPIC! but the ending was just... well sucky, hell, i mean, you make everyone look like an old guy and wtf? Leeron's looks doesn't change, Rossiu became an old guy who looks almost like his old village cheif, Gimmy and Darry became older but that kinda took away the moe from them, Yoko becomes the principal and Simon, the hero becomes a wandering nobody... -.- Damn, couldn't they have made a better ending
7.
I am not going to argue, but still, why give the core drill to Gimmy?
He should at least give it to Viral or his son... wait a second, he doesn't have a son, his wife died! In the wedding! (Couldn't at least Nia have a nice dead?)
Simon at the end, looked lame. No more GARlock anymore.
Only thing that was pretty awesome about the episode was the inmortal Boota and Leeron (Hey, they're not aging)
Oh, also Jouji Nakata as Rossiu, sweet :heh:
Kaioshin Sama
2007-10-01, 04:07
Man, people are missing the point of the ending so bad. By exiting the stage humbly Simon cements his position as a true hero. Gar isn't just about making heroic speeches and flashy poses, it's also about showing humility, compassion and selflessness. Simon has no reason to fight anymore; he wants the people to lead there own lives without looking to him for guidance and is not a glory seeker; and so he makes his peace and retires to the life of a digger.
If anything, the disappearing from the public eye thing cements his legend even moreso among the populace and is even more "epic" than if he were to stay and make some sort of flashy pose and speech. The idea that the greatest hero the universe has ever known could appear before you someday on a face to face level anywhere in the world just strikes me as really cool. Simon's basically become like the legendary warrior character you often see in fantasy stories who passes on his title to the next in line after his personal battle has ended. Only in Gurren-Lagann's case we actually get to see the story from his point of view instead of just from the guy who's inheriting his power. That's something you don't see to often, and what I think is the very definition of "epic". Kamina passed the torch to Simon, and now Simon passed the torch to Gimmy, who's story is only approaching it's halfway point. This is an epic, the story that spans an entire persons life struggle and sometimes beyond, where characters come and go, times change, and history is made.
musashiken
2007-10-01, 04:17
Man, people are missing the point of the ending so bad. By exiting the stage humbly Simon cements his position as a true hero. Gar isn't just about making heroic speeches and flashy poses, it's also about showing humility, compassion and selflessness. Simon has no reason to fight anymore, so he makes his peace.
We're not idiots, we can see where you're coming at. But does not mean we have to accept it. And I also admit that there's no perfect ending that will satisfy everyone. If you are satisfied with the ending with your reasons, fine by me. But that won't stop me from being pissed by Nia's loss, or someone from seeing Simon as a wandering hobo or someone else from thinking that the whole epilogue was pointless or someone from thinking that Yoko deserved a lot more etc.
Malintex_Terek
2007-10-01, 05:06
Man, people are missing the point of the ending so bad. By exiting the stage humbly Simon cements his position as a true hero. Gar isn't just about making heroic speeches and flashy poses, it's also about showing humility, compassion and selflessness. Simon has no reason to fight anymore; he wants the people to lead there own lives without looking to him for guidance and is not a glory seeker; and so he makes his peace and retires to the life of a digger.
Gar has two main components - accomplishment, and attitude. I understand the "humility" deal, but frankly, Simon isn't any different from Goku when it comes to attitude - he's well meaning and gets riled up during a battle, but aside from being "pure hearted" there's not much personality there. Like a boy scout, if I am to use a classic stereotype. While that is manly/badarse in the chivalrous sort of way, it's rather empty if one compares that same chivalry to someone like Harlock.
There was nothing wrong with Simon being a wanderer and helping folks - if Nia was by his side, NO ONE would have complained. But, because Nia died, people feel Simon's end was like punishment for failing Nia, an unfit conclusion to the life of the Anti-Spiral called a "Spiral Knight". Even if Simon wanted that kind of life, people feel like deep down, it was the best he could come up with given his options, and ressurecting Nia was not an option.
In that sense, such resignation is seen as a sign of weakness, one of the anti-thesis to Gar. Simon wasn't a pitiful, broken mess of a man like Suguru was, but he went through simmilar tragedy and was ultimately living a simmilar lifestyle, albeit out of (in some's eyes) an unnecessary choice rather than a desire for revenge.
If anything, the disappearing from the public eye thing cements his legend even moreso among the populace and is even more "epic" than if he were to stay and make some sort of flashy pose and speech. The idea that the greatest hero the universe has ever known could appear before you someday on a face to face level anywhere in the world just strikes me as really cool.
Problem is, no one knows who he is - to the rest of the world, he might as well be a spectre wading through the tides of time. The world is indebted to Simon and it could never repay him for his deeds, but I think most people would wish the world TRIED to. But that's how tragic heroes are in fiction - they reject lesser spoils of war if they missed the grand prize.
Simon's basically become like the legendary warrior character you often see in fantasy stories who passes on his title to the next in line after his personal battle has ended.
Old master types usually die gloriously, though, not humbly. Even Obi-Wan Kenobi stepped out of retirement to go out with a voomp.
Hah, I dono, this ending was fine. It's what I would consider, the "safe ending" one that most people will enjoy, and feel satisfied in the end. It doesn't do anything quite outrageously unexpected as to the point where there will be a VAST difference in which it would turn into a LOVE/HATE ending.
I enjoyed it at least, it was a calm fitting end to an explosive series. May not be perfect, but what really is perfect? Like, seriously, what is the perfect ending? There isn't one.
I'm kinda split about passing down the key, because on one point I understand Simon's point of being a driller, who merely drills the path, and now it's time for Gimmy to continue onwards. But on another end, I kinda wanted to see Simon traveling galaxies with Lagann.. But meh
My only afterthought is, does he become like Lord Genome? As in, one of Simon's eyes turned into a spiral, so I'm wondering if the other one follows, and he becomes a person who never ages after a certain point. >.>; Maybe he lives on forever.
seeing how everyone's talking about the ending i don't think spoilers are needed anymore...
but just in case
Its funny how similar this ending was to diebuster, timeskip ending plus someone going on a diplomatic mission while hero does some bird watching. In fact it is almost exactly the same as diebuster ending.
besides that, needless to say we got pulled a harry potter ending lol
Conan-san
2007-10-01, 07:30
Realy?
Everyone who I saw talk about it equated it to the ending of
Mahoromantic, Seriously, Love of life cops it, main hero gets utterly shafted.
On the plus side, any inventable manga adapation is due a much better ending.
That said, the ep could of stopped some minue early and it would of been better for it, we didn't need a Digimon Zero Two "25 years later epiloge" there.
My only afterthought is, does he become like Lord Genome? As in, one of Simon's eyes turned into a spiral, so I'm wondering if the other one follows, and he becomes a person who never ages after a certain point. >.>; Maybe he lives on forever.
He's Obi Wan Kenobi.
Nevertheless, the more I rewatch the episode the more it seems to me Simon's heart was shattered by the finale. From the moment he watches Nia's figure shimmering inside Lagann his eyes change completely and take a much more melancholic design.
Mr. Johnny 5
2007-10-01, 08:59
While i really thing that these series were great the....throwing with galaxy's was just too much...
- 1,5 point.
In the end our main hero just wanders around with his digging tool? Boota still alive...Viral doesnt seem to age or barely aged.
- 0,5 point.
Gurren Lagann was an awesome anime...really.
So i voted an 8 out of 10. These series have ended before they became boring...so i'd give it a total 8/10 for the complete series of Gurren Lagann :).
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