View Full Version : Character discussion - Tomoya
The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Tomoya (Please don't confuse with Tomoyo :)) related.
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Let me start, how can someone who labeled as a delinquent & have family problems can be
-so friendly even for someone he never met
-extremely support girl(s)
for me, it is conflict.
however, just enjoy the show.
Klashikari
2007-10-22, 11:38
Delinquent has a very different meaning in the japanese context.
You can be considered as a "delinquent" if you ditch school and/or if you don't participate any club activities.
In a sense, delinquent is someone who doesn't contribute anything in society, and hence, not exactly highly regarded.
This is exactly what Tomoya is doing, and this is the reason why some classmates were talking behind his back and youhei's.
You aren't supposed to be like a punk (just like the bikers in episode 1) to be considered as a delinquent.
meanwhile, having family issues don't end with "having issue with other people". In a way, being able to interact friendly with others might be a unconscious way to not think of family and such.
Ryuuguu Rena is the fine example of this: her behaviour is a "self defense" and attempt to not think of her difficult family situation.
Certainly, having family issues might lead some unstabilities with some people, but in general, their eduction and interactions aren't always affected by it.
Kinny Riddle
2007-10-22, 13:04
While not an issue for Japanese readers, for English-speaking readers, Tomoya's name might get easily mixed up with Tomoyo's because of the romanized spelling.
I propose putting their kanji name next to their names in the thread title to prevent people from posting in the wrong thread.
Anyway, to get on topic, Tomoya's setting as a "delinquent" is an excellent decision.
The usual bishoujo-game lead is usually a Mr Nice Guy who generally follows the rules and stays out of trouble unless circumstances don't allow it.
Kanon's Yuuichi is on the "cool" extreme of the "Nice Guy" archetype in that he is pro-active and makes things happen within his power rather than sit back and wait for things to develop. (In fact, Key protagonist tend to be more pro-active than any other visual novel protagonists I've seen. )
AIR's Yukito is more of an "outsider", in that he's not part of Misuzu's school to begin with. Besides, the entirety of AIR's story takes place outside the school.
In Clannad, where most of the story takes place inside the school, we have Tomoya who's part of the school system, but is estranged from it due to various reasons and is considered an "outcast". This is the perspective we're given, showing how Tomoya finds redemption in one act of kindness - helping Nagisa with her Drama Club.
SeedFreedom
2007-10-22, 14:58
hes probably my favorite male lead out of all the romance/comedies ive seen after rin(shuffle) turned out to be a bust
sorry still a kaede fan :P
anywho while he doesnt always do whats best he seems to always do whats right
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-10-22, 15:11
Tomoya is certainly a different character than what I'm used to seeing in a male lead in these kinds of genres. Plus he has a past which affects him in the present time of the show. We don't know if Tomoya was like this in his earlier years, but whatever happened between him and his family surely changed his life forever. Episode 2 has given us the impression that Tomoya used to be involved with extracurricular activities in school. He was in a basketball team and from the looks of it, I think he was one of the top players in his team...but I don't really know that though since he hasn't revealed anything of the sort yet.
For now, he seems really interested in supporting Nagisa with the Drama club, but notes to Nagisa that he is only helping out and doesn't want to be a part of it. Plus we get a big comparison with Tomoya's current family/household with Nagisa's family in episode 1. When Tomoya goes to Nagisa's house, its so lively and comfortable to be in. When Tomoya gets home, we get a sense of emptiness with a father figure sitting down and laying by a wall and sleeping. Plus the way how Tomoya reacts to his father waking up is a sign that he really hates his father or even hates coming home to a dump like that.
Tomoya really gets along with everyone at school though. Kyou, Tomoyo, and his friend Sunohara all know him.
In Tomoya's introduction it's very clear that his past has everything to do with his hate.
I really wonder if he only started to suddenly get along with everyone in the story after meeting Nagisa, or he was always this way.
He was always that way (being able to get along with everyone, that is). Its just that school no longer held any interest for him after the incident with his father, which lead to him coming to school late all the time and being labeled a delinquent. He always had be able to get along with people, just that people didn't want to talk to him because of his delinquent status.
Hyori-Ramen
2007-11-26, 11:04
... Oh, so this is where the Tomoya thread was.
PAGE 2?!!! And not much replies!
This is really motivating me to raise my fist and hold high the Tomoya Okazaki flag.
... Even if it means running alone.
It would be honor for me if anyone was to be inspired by my Tomoya fandom run, though~
As I have mentioned in my introductory thread earlier, I am a huge fan. If it means talking to myself here, yes, I will do it.
This is directly copied from my anime blog (http://hyori.wordpress.com/):
"... Tomoya Okazaki, one of your average “nice guy” protagonists. Tomoya has easily catched my heart. Unlike the cheesy, shy type who flushes to no end with a sight of a cute person or the cool but arrogant bishounen who has a bad past, Tomoya falls under one of the categories of the true type of “uniqueness.” He is a guy that wouldn’t love you for everything, but he is the kind of person who wouldn’t let you down no matter what. Tomoya is considered a lazy bum or delinquent at school and some students do not like him for his trait to skip classes or always arriving late for them. But in truth, Tomoya has a heart of gold, and deep down… a lonely person. It is always admirable to have to see non-emotional main characters, still with a bad past, but never lets it get to him when facing other people. Instead of having to share his emotions or even show it, he walks with a calm demeanor and even extends an open, warm palm for those who needs help.
In the early episodes, Tomoya’s blank and empty life is shown, and how it slowly chances after meeting several people. He always seemed flat and blunt– never smiling so much towards himself but more for others who he would want to cheer up. His relationship with his new friends developed greatly as he continued to aid them in his own small but heart-warming ways. His friends, particularly Nagisa, were always inspired by this person. Regardless of all the smiles he brought, unlike other main characters in different series (of which the guy is surrounded with “oversized” you-know-what and everyone loves him), he is not “the town’s crush.” (With exception of Nagisa, and perhaps even Ryou.)
Tomoya officially makes it in my favorite characters list. What I am only disappointed about is the lack of Tomoya appreciation (few fan arts) and the very few number of large quality scans of him."
Please take note I never played any of the CLANNAD games so I wouldn't know how Tomoya would be in the games. All my opinions are purely from the anime.
However, basing from what I could see all over the place, there's not even much mentioning of Tomoya in the games. Plus, I only see several official game art of him.
Is Tomoya really that unappreciated?
Whatever the truth is, whatever reason there may be, I'll just keep my hand high for the guy.
Mirrinus
2007-11-26, 13:29
The girls always end up getting more attention...
Anyway, of course Tomoya is important. He's one-half of the Tomoya-Nagisa relationship, which is the main reason why I'm even watching this show. Notice that he's precisely one-half of the relationship, and not 90% like what Yuuichi was with the Yuuichi-Ayu relationship, lol.
Many of my thoughts on Tomoya are mentioned in the Nagisa thread, since I find it difficult to divide the two. They're inextricably linked in my mind.
tripperazn
2007-11-26, 19:14
I'm actually surprised he doesn't get much attention since IMO one of Key's best traits is having proactive and interesting male leads. Although he isn't really fleshed out at this point (past with his dad largely untouched), I have a feeling his personal story will be just as compelling as the girls'.
His past is definitely one of my most anticipated developments in Clannad.
iamandragon
2007-11-26, 20:41
Considering that you are Tomoya when playing the game, there's not much to discuss here. But I believe more talks will arise when the anime continues...
Hyori-Ramen
2007-11-26, 21:02
That's true, of course. But what's freaky to me is that Tomoya doesn't even have cover art in the game series.
Now the anime is out, and Tomoya is just plain awesome there, at least should have been a bit of an increase of both official and fandom objects here and there. But it's not the case. Tomoya appreciation still continues to be low as indeed, the girls have more attention. Whether we admit it or not, they are the "spotlight" in the entire series for the eyes of the fans.
People tend to forget that there's a certain someone that helped them shine and move forward in life. Forget the roots, appreciate the fruits? Of course I admire fans who are able to connect the meaningful relationships, but still it's disappointing to think a rather large number doesn't even acknowledge it anymore. A massive portion of fans just go, "(girl's name here)-KAWAII DESU!!11" Don't get the wrong idea, I don't have anything against it, it's completely fine, and I'm a huge fans of the girls as well. (Random: ... Especially Kotomi. ^-^ <3) But anyway, what I'm pointing out is that Tomoya has quite a cold side of the fandom.
Whenever stuff about Tomoya is posted, they look for a while, but they never really go too far.
I've been scrolling the image thread, page 1 until the end, there's only about 1 or 2 Tomoya pictures in a single page in average. In other sites, such as MegaTokyo, the same rates are applied.
minhtam1638
2007-11-26, 21:14
Doesn't Tomoya have cover art in Tomoyo After?
CrowKenobi
2007-11-26, 21:16
I'm actually surprised he doesn't get much attention since IMO one of Key's best traits is having proactive and interesting male leads. Although he isn't really fleshed out at this point (past with his dad largely untouched), I have a feeling his personal story will be just as compelling as the girls'.
His past is definitely one of my most anticipated developments in Clannad.On that thought: we're worrying about how much attention to Fuko is taking away from the other girls' stories, what about Tomoya's back story? Do we have enough episodes to give the other girls justice AS well as him?
:cool:
Kang Seung Jae
2007-11-26, 21:22
He's not your average loser nor "winner."
He's my favorite male character for that reason.
Hyori-Ramen
2007-11-26, 21:25
Doesn't Tomoya have cover art in Tomoyo After?
Does he? The only Tomoya (non-profile) picture I've seen in that one is the group art of them together.
Mirrinus
2007-11-26, 21:52
On that thought: we're worrying about how much attention to Fuko is taking away from the other girls' stories, what about Tomoya's back story? Do we have enough episodes to give the other girls justice AS well as him?
:cool:
I'm pretty sure that'll be linked up with Nagisa's story. Just a hunch, seeing as the only reason we're ever exploring his relationship with his dad is because Nagisa is the catalyst.
Hyori-Ramen
2007-11-26, 22:18
I'm pretty sure that'll be linked up with Nagisa's story. Just a hunch, seeing as the only reason we're ever exploring his relationship with his dad is because Nagisa is the catalyst.
I agree.
Personally, I don't believe Tomoya is the kind of person who would even bother opening up unless there's something special enough to make him talk or even -think about- his own past. Of course it bothers him at eventual times as portrayed, but as far as Tomoya's personality is concerned, he wouldn't talk about it so openly: to himself or to others. An instance Nagisa even got to know that Tomoya doesn't have the best relationship, or at least a hint of it, with his dad is when Tomoya admitted what he said about a bit of his background during the time at the rainy day in the school court. Therefore, knowing as Tomoya -is- important to the girls, it is the same way the girls are important to Tomoya. This is just one of the characteristics of CLANNAD had I liked, character development is just top-notch. This is a reason why I wouldn't want the idea to have a "this one is the spotlight" kind of thoughts over favored characters because all of them are important all the same.
BakaOnna
2007-11-26, 22:30
Out of the three male protagonists in the KEY/KyoAni adaptations, Tomoya is my favorite. That is not to say I didn't like the other two. In fact, I love the fact that KEY's males are more proactive and not the wishy-washy, lack-of-backbone harem-esque types of male characters. However, I felt that Yukito and Yuuichi, as awesome as they were, lacked their own form of development. All these girls in the show get a whole 4, 5 episodes dedicated to themselves, but nothing on the males?
For that reason, I really like the fact that Tomoya has some sort of background to develop his character.
And I also like Tomoya/Nagisa much more than Yuuichi/Ayu or Yukito/Misuzu. Their relationship feels a lot more natural than the other two. Yuuichi/Ayu seemed to come out of no where, and I never really saw Yukito/Misuzu more than a friendship sort of bond.
SnakeLegend
2007-12-02, 03:33
Ok this thing I'm going to say is NSFW. Not Safe For Life too =/ And Not Safe For Relationships and Kids.
In a sense Tomoya's life is kind of my life as I had before.
I used to fight my father alot.
Just that, I didn't injured my shoulder.
Instead I had his head swollen, causing him to have some kind of temporary madness going on with his personality, like a sudden swap of attitude, from happiness to sadness and anger, in a confused cycle.
I fought him 3 times, each time, we had our own injuries.
The first was when I was 13. Then following 14 then 16. All due to some mistakes made in life.
Mostly, I always hated the way I lived my life in the very same place that I've been looking at for the past 10 years over and over again, doing the same old boring things that have been like my daily routine to live on my life with.
Now I'm currently 1X (I can watch 18+ clips meh.) Going to be old soon.
I lived my life as a Navy Regular now. Going on my contract for 10 years.
But still, I still felt this senseless need for living on this life that I've lived for.
That was when I bumped into CLANNAD.
Was like, first impression that gives me the tremendous liking to this character named Tomoya was the introduction for CLANNAD's Epi 1, the part where he talked about his life.
Just a note, things I did in that 'spoiler' note is not meant for kids who've got bad relations with parents.
On the side note, I do like the various girls from CLANNAD too.
Each with their own good and bad points.
Nice <3
Dark Wing
2007-12-20, 01:47
Yea know Tomoya actually reminds me a lot of Kyon form Haruhi.
- The only member of the main cast who seem to have common sense
- His quick jabs and comebacks
- His ability to attract the weirdest people.
Yup totally a screaming parallel of Kyon...:heh:
Yea know Tomoya actually reminds me a lot of Kyon form Haruhi.
- The only member of the main cast who seem to have common sense
- His quick jabs and comebacks
- His ability to attract the weirdest people.
Yup totally a screaming parallel of Kyon...:heh:
Kyon is not a prankster.
Kyon does not have a dysfunctional relationship with his father.
Kyon does not have a disability.
Tomoya makes things happen. Things happen to Kyon.
I can probably go on, but the gist of the message is... Tomatoes and Apples are not the same, even if they are both red and juicy. Superficial similarities are just that, superficial.
Cheers.
hachihachi
2007-12-27, 11:55
And I also like Tomoya/Nagisa much more than Yuuichi/Ayu or Yukito/Misuzu. Their relationship feels a lot more natural than the other two. Yuuichi/Ayu seemed to come out of no where, and I never really saw Yukito/Misuzu more than a friendship sort of bond.
totally agree with you about the natural part.
nonetheless, another lucky bastard with a harem at this point :heh:
tripperazn
2007-12-27, 13:32
And I also like Tomoya/Nagisa much more than Yuuichi/Ayu or Yukito/Misuzu. Their relationship feels a lot more natural than the other two. Yuuichi/Ayu seemed to come out of no where, and I never really saw Yukito/Misuzu more than a friendship sort of bond.
While I agree, I can't figure out whether it's because NagisaxTomoya has more chemistry or it's just that Ayu and Misuzu are Lolis. They seem totally innocent and not a prospective gf/lover/whatever. Maybe that's why Nagisa is even older than Tomoya? He's doubly lucky for having an older woman :D
Mirrinus
2007-12-27, 14:56
So true about the superficial comparisons, Skane. I guess people like things that are familiar, and will try to justify any parallels they might conceive, regardless of whether it's really appropriate or not. Makes me wonder what people would say about shows like this if they were to refrain from referring to any other shows...eh, whatever.
GreatTeacherKen
2007-12-27, 16:09
^^ well at least s/he didn't say Tomoya was a rip off of Kyon. :p
Tomoya is either not interested in girls, or totally devoted to Nagisa.
I mean, look at ep17, it wasn't until halfway through the gym storage scene that he thought "Crap, what's with this mood" and even then he didn't seem to be inticed by Kyou at all.
And then he's annoyed that Tomoyo's waking him up every morning!
... and of course Ryou fawning over him... and Kotomi's kawaiiness as well.
GAHHH :frustrated: <- half-joking
todkapuz
2008-02-10, 01:15
I know I wish I had his troubles.
Your condition is known as the secondary character syndrome, otherwise known as the Sunohara complex. Don't worry, 90% of the male anime population suffers from it, so there's plenty of treatment centers and help groups for it.
oompa loompa
2008-02-11, 12:39
hes probably my favorite male lead out of all the romance/comedies ive seen after rin(shuffle) turned out to be a bust
sorry still a kaede fan :P
anywho while he doesnt always do whats best he seems to always do whats right
heehee i was wondering if i should put this up. tomoya is pretty rin-esque isnt he? and his situation is turning into a shuffle situation as well.. but tomoya>rin any day hes wayy cool
i actually burst out laughing when he plays pranks on people, i.e sunohara or fuko
1)He's a lucky bastard for having so much nice girls that adore him even when he's not giving them attention ;)
2)He's rly the perfect main character
3)He looks a bit like the main character from shakugan no shana =p
Well, Okazaki is a cool guy, I can see his feelings about Nagisa and it's much stronger than "friends", which is his relationship with other girls. He may be a delinquent, but very kind person and it would be better if he's with Nagisa.
I'm a Tomoyo's fan, what did I just say....
Hell2shin
2008-02-16, 00:31
Tomoya is a good main character... He actually deserves that harem since he's done so many nice things lol. You can tell he's starting to develop feelings for Nagisa and already has some for Kyou. Lol, he's so similar to the other 'Key' anime main characters.
Well indeed...he is quite similar, but at the same time he is fundamentally different. Their cynical, I barely care about everyday life personality kind of resembles each other, but I think that by now we can all already see that there is something essential that is different between Yuuichi, Tomoya and Yukito.
The_TempesT
2008-02-16, 05:28
There really isnt much in this thread about Tomoya but I'd just like to say I find him one of the best male leads I've ever come across. He might seem dense as hell when it comes to women but deep down I think he can probably tell what some of they are thinking (i.e Ryou's feelings when she blushes at him) and his attitude is probably one of the coolest I've seen from male leads, and unlike alot of male leads I've seen, he doesn't cause me to rip out my hair in frustration by his actions.
tomoya, yea he's a cool man, almost all key's main lead are a cool and responsible one add manly looking there.. oh wait there's little busters riki
i love how tomoya crack some jokes, especially some of his pranks which seemed kinda spontaneous but well have devastating result :heh:
one of the most humorous guy in key universe thats for sure, oh wait we have sunohara for that lol :heh:
greyhawk
2008-02-19, 04:46
A true humorous guy is one who can crack a joke without blinking an eye or giggling before others. Sunohara Tomoya FTW!
Yupe, helping out every girl, remaining oblivious to their feelings, always doing the righteous thing... typical of a harem-gatherer. Kinda too perfect IMO, you can't even envy hate him :rolleyes:
3)He looks a bit like the main character from shakugan no shana =p
:hmm:
Angela Sanctisstessa
2008-02-20, 02:02
In no way Tomoya is like Sakai Yuuji, in fact both of them are of the total opposite >.>
tripperazn
2008-02-20, 04:10
There really isnt much in this thread about Tomoya but I'd just like to say I find him one of the best male leads I've ever come across. He might seem dense as hell when it comes to women but deep down I think he can probably tell what some of they are thinking (i.e Ryou's feelings when she blushes at him) and his attitude is probably one of the coolest I've seen from male leads, and unlike alot of male leads I've seen, he doesn't cause me to rip out my hair in frustration by his actions.
Yes, you are right on. Tomoya clearly isn't dense, he knows about Ryou and when 4 girls come to your house to cook for you, it's hard not to understand what's going on. What's holding him back is his lack of self-image. Like he said to Tomoyo, he doesn't think that he can get a girlfriend. He is a delinquent (in any Asian country that is BAD, you have no future so to speak), on bad terms with his dad, and can't play basketball anymore. He has no dreams, no family, and no future in his mind, basically he sees himself as pathetic.
I think that while he does see signs of interest from the girls, he probably doesn't understand why they like him, because in his mind there is nothing to like. All the attention probably confuses him more than anything, BECAUSE he understands and is not dense.
because in his mind there is nothing to like.
Maybe somebody should tell him he is in a harem :heh:.
Shinigami_Mello
2008-02-20, 19:36
Yes, you are right on. Tomoya clearly isn't dense, he knows about Ryou and when 4 girls come to your house to cook for you, it's hard not to understand what's going on. What's holding him back is his lack of self-image. Like he said to Tomoyo, he doesn't think that he can get a girlfriend. He is a delinquent (in any Asian country that is BAD, you have no future so to speak), on bad terms with his dad, and can't play basketball anymore. He has no dreams, no family, and no future in his mind, basically he sees himself as pathetic.
I think that while he does see signs of interest from the girls, he probably doesn't understand why they like him, because in his mind there is nothing to like. All the attention probably confuses him more than anything, BECAUSE he understands and is not dense.
That seems like whats probably going on. Tomoya really dosnt seem dense at all since he noticed Ryou's feelings. (And the scene with Kyou in Ep.17 was as good as a confession) Poor guy, it must be hard.
I don't think Tomoya sees himself as pathetic but because he isn't to enthusiastic about life he seems to have no interest in finding a girlfriend at the moment. He is still caring though. He reminds me of me (even tho i have a gf) thats why i'm going to cosplay as him.
I like Tomoya and all. He's an interesting character. My problem is that even though he seems like a sympathetic male lead, he is forced on me, the viewer. He is the only prevalent male in the whole show. The creators try to contrast Tomoya with awful supporting male characters to make him more likeable and/or sympathetic: Youhei is an idiotic, comedic relief character and Akio is an asshole, comedic relief character. All the other male characters are minor and way out of tomoya's age group. Faced with such facts, the Tomoya is the likeable lead by default. I mean, couldn't they find a group of interesting gusy that Tomoya could interact with throughout the show? I mean Kyon had Itsuki who was also a cool guy.
It drips into the whole romantic aspect of the show. Tomoya has no romantic competition. All four girls have to fall in love with Tomoya, because there's no other viable male characters in the show for their affection. Tomoya could really have used a romantic rival. it's kind of skewed, Tomoya has four girls to choose from and the four girls oly have Tomoya to fight over.
So Tomoya is cool, but only cool by default so to speak.
DJ_RockmanX
2008-02-26, 12:01
I like Tomoya and all. He's an interesting character. My problem is that even though he seems like a sympathetic male lead, he is forced on me, the viewer. He is the only prevalent male in the whole show. The creators try to contrast Tomoya with awful supporting male characters to make him more likeable and/or sympathetic: Youhei is an idiotic, comedic relief character and Akio is an asshole, comedic relief character. All the other male characters are minor and way out of tomoya's age group. Faced with such facts, the Tomoya is the likeable lead by default. I mean, couldn't they find a group of interesting guys that Tomoya could interact with throughout the show? I mean Kyon had Itsuki who was also a cool guy.
It drips into the whole romantic aspect of the show. Tomoya has no romantic competition. All four girls have to fall in love with tomoya, because there's no other viable male characters in the show for their effection. tomoya could really have used a romantic rival.
So Tomoya is cool, but only cool by default so to speak.
- If there was romantic competition, people wouldn't be able to claim that Clannad is a pure harem romance series, like many that have come before it. Which by the way it isn't, but I don't wanna fight this fight.
- Where do you get off on calling AWESOME FATHER an asshole character? =P
- This is a story about Tomoya, and how his interactions with the other girls shape his life and theirs. There's more to it than that, and I'll let the game vets come in where needed, but this is really as simple as it is.
- If there was romantic competition, people wouldn't be able to claim that Clannad is a pure harem romance series, like many that have come before it. Which by the way it isn't, but I don't wanna fight this fight.
- Where do you get off on calling AWESOME FATHER an asshole character? =P
- This is a story about Tomoya, and how his interactions with the other girls shape his life and theirs. There's more to it than that, and I'll let the game vets come in where needed, but this is really as simple as it is.
_______________
First I watched Air.
Then I watched Air the Movie.
Then I watched Kanon 2006.
Then I watched School Days which awoke me to the absurdity of the whole harem genre and its conventions. A masterpiece in satire, I must confess.
I can't watch shows like Clannad with a straight face anymore after having watched School Days.
Tomoya in Clannad is not a dedp character, or even a fully fleshed-out, 3-dimensional character. He's a transparent, cliche one-dimensional character by the harem convention that he has no other male characters to serve as a foil or point of reference to himself.
He's just likeable by the sheer fact that everyone around him is either dumber or more air-headed or hot-headed then he himself is.
Tomoya's strength as a character is not the strength of character. I'll say that much.
DJ_RockmanX
2008-02-26, 12:53
Tomoya's strength as a character is not the strength of character. I'll say that much.
You have answered the question yourself.
I'll be honest. At the outset of this series, Tomoya was shown to be not much more than an ordinary guy with issues with his father. What's more is that he escapes these problems, and believes himself to have no future. He kinda reminds me of myself in that regard, minus hatred of father and plus other issues.
This story as about him moving on with life. And at least for me, he's likable because he's slowly beginning to move on, much in part due to his relationship with the girls (especially Nagisa). That's something I wish I had, and that's why Tomoya gets my respect and a thumbs up from me.
Don't proclaim that Tomoya's likable for only one reason. Everyone will find their own unique reasons to like a character, as I hope have explained with mine.
Kaisos Erranon
2008-02-26, 13:30
Then I watched School Days which awoke me to the absurdity of the whole harem genre and its conventions. A masterpiece in satire, I must confess.
I can't watch shows like Clannad with a straight face anymore after having watched School Days.
I watched School Days before Clannad as well, and I also hate harem anime. Yet I enjoy Clannad because of how Tomoya is NOT Makoto. He's clearly only interested in Nagisa.
Tomoya in Clannad is not a dedp character, or even a fully fleshed-out, 3-dimensional character. He's a transparent, cliche one-dimensional character by the harem convention that he has no other male characters to serve as a foil or point of reference to himself.
Sunohara is a pretty damn good foil for him.
And I don't see how you can call him cliche... the sheer amount of brilliant pranks he pulls on people...
Well he's the main lead...it'll be something you just have to get used to or you can go watch something else.
RandomFlameStrike
2008-02-27, 00:52
_______________
First I watched Air.
Then I watched Air the Movie.
Then I watched Kanon 2006.
Then I watched School Days which awoke me to the absurdity of the whole harem genre and its conventions. A masterpiece in satire, I must confess.
I can't watch shows like Clannad with a straight face anymore after having watched School Days.
Tomoya in Clannad is not a dedp character, or even a fully fleshed-out, 3-dimensional character. He's a transparent, cliche one-dimensional character by the harem convention that he has no other male characters to serve as a foil or point of reference to himself.
He's just likeable by the sheer fact that everyone around him is either dumber or more air-headed or hot-headed then he himself is.
Tomoya's strength as a character is not the strength of character. I'll say that much.
Hey man, being a Tomoya fan I really can’t let what you said go. First off, can you tell us why you think he’s a flat character? Or at least give an example of one you think is 3D in comparison. Since I’ve played some of the game I have a huge biases on Tomoya as he shows a lot of depth and development in the game. Well even in the anime, how is he transparent, cliché, and one-dimensional? He isn’t your average loser harem boy that lacks a spine and comes up with a magic harem. Further more the way you claim he’s only likeable by the saying everyone around him is dumber as fact annoys me. Heck you might think everyone around him is dumber, but I think Akio’s a cool dad, and even Sunohara has some redeeming factors. I for one like Tomoya for his character, which contradicts your fact.
So after watching School days, did it suddenly change your opinion of AIR and Kanon too? When I saw it I just was infuriated by Makoto’s stupidity and why the HECK those stupid dumb girls kept sleeping with him, but it didn’t lower my opinion of great shows like Kanon and Clannad. They’re different things despite being in the same genera. Clannad doesn’t have the same overly harem aspects as some crap like School Days does. The girls at least have some basis for being interested in Tomoya. I agree a bit with you on how it’s weird that Tomoya doesn’t have any male friends on equal footing with him, but he’s labeled as a huge delinquent that skips class and causes trouble. All the “cooler” guys avoid him; Sunohara only hangs with him because he’s also a delinquent like him.
In the game Clannad isn’t really that much of a harem thing, since in each individual route only one or so girl gets attached to Tomoya and he gets with her, with the exception of the Fujibayashi twins route but that’s more of a love triangle. (Well he doesn’t get together with anyone in Sanae’s, Kappies, and the baseball route) Kyoani’s interweaving makes it seem like a harem thing but episode 18 was there to point out it’s not really a war between the girls for Tomoya’s affection. Heck he was only interested in Nagisa from the start and vice-versa. I can get into why he doesn’t have a romantic interest in the other girls but that’s besides the point. Well basically the whole romantic competition thing isn’t really the focal point of Clannad, depending on you actions in game most of the other characters move on without Tomoya and it’s about girl with Tomoya and how they effect each other. You can’t just replace Tomoya with any other stock male lead and expect to have the same story.
Mirrinus
2008-02-27, 02:07
It seems like quite a large (and erroneous) leap to go from "These two shows have some superficial resemblence" to "The main characters of both shows are exactly the same." I'm not sure if being "awoken" is really all that different from being "blinded", in this sense...if being awoken means being unable to see beyond any superficial elements and feeling some strong urge to tell others why there isn't anything deeper about their favorite characters, then I think I'd rather continue sleeping, thank you very much. You can go on listing any derogatory terms you can think of to describe him...or you can actually tell us exactly how he's any of those things. But of course, that might expose such notions to criticism, wouldn't it? Because that would open the door to describing Tomoya in ways beyond mere superficial resemblences to whatever other male leads you're thinking of. I'm a very jaded individual when it comes to fiction (having spent WAY too much time reading tvtropes.org), so much so that I don't consider anything original. And yet, neither could I condone such a statement that presumes two things to be exactly alike either, or even very close to each other, without ample scrutiny.
And on another note, besides Sunohara, I actually consider both Akio and Tomoya's own father as foils as well. Both provide interesting comparisons and contrasts.
If you had no other characters to compare Tomoya too you'd use them from anime series like your doing. SO more reason to not have anymore males in this anime. Its sad to think he is so disliked.
Leo_Otaku
2008-02-27, 13:45
LOL the majority of people are basing it on what they have only seen just give them a chance. Tomoya is a well developed character who has flaws.
So how long till Tomoya realizes he's walking in his father's footsteps?
MeoTwister5
2009-02-10, 01:36
So how long till Tomoya realizes he's walking in his father's footsteps?
Give or take 2 episodes most likely.
Give or take 2 episodes most likely.
Looks like it was pointed out by a third party sooner then expected.
willyvereb
2009-02-16, 12:22
Tomoya is interesting in some way:
He's an a**hole and rude person outside, but he cares in a great to a great deal to people who close to him. He's somewhat uncertain with his feelings but honest when the time needed. An above all: Not scared even a little bit to act when needed!
In general he's considered to be one of the few great harem protagonists...
SageGaiGar
2009-02-16, 12:33
Tomoya is interesting in some way:
He's an a**hole and rude person outside, but he cares in a great to a great deal to people who close to him. He's somewhat uncertain with his feelings but honest when the time needed. An above all: Not scared even a little bit to act when needed!
In general he's considered to be one of the few great harem protagonists...
Except without the harem, as stated in other posts he focuses on one girl.
I really enjoy his sense of mischief, from 'dating' Mei-chan to try and get a response out of her brother, to throwing Sunohara 'under the bus' many times when he acts up. Yet he also has a sense of responsibility to assist his friends in their problems. Maybe not responsibility in a sense of duty. "I help them because only I can!", but more helping them because he can, without any real motive. Selfless.
willyvereb
2009-02-16, 12:44
in most of the harem animes the main protagonist realy likes or even loves one girl while the others loves him and tries to make him love them...
For example: Ai Yori Aoshi, Nagasse Arigatou, Rosario+Vampire, Sekirei(maybe the later is an exeption)
OceanBlue
2009-02-21, 22:45
Really? I've found that harem anime where the protagonist has already chosen a girl are the exception. That would make more sense as well, since it encourages shipping. Since most harem anime are about love triangles/polygons, it wouldn't be as interesting if the main character had already chosen who he wanted to be with. It is true that in a lot of harem anime, the main character gives more attention towards one character than the others sometimes, but I think that's just because they're going to become the main couple.
Anyway, Tomoya's complexity and growth throughout the series is amazing. I'm pretty sure this is more growth than any other character I've seen in anime, or at least in harem anime. He grows slowly through the first season and the first part of the second season, obviously, since it's segmented and, in the game, they're supposed to be separate, but I find how he deals with the changes in his life interesting.
As I see it, he goes from not caring about anything to caring about things once Nagisa is introduced, but then regresses back to caring about nothing once Nagisa dies. He couldn't get past Nagisa's death, so he doesn't think about it. That makes him unable to move forward with anything, but by then, he already has responsibilities he has to take care of, and that forces him to come to terms with Nagisa's death. In a sense, he learns to depend on someone to help him advance through life, and then he's forced to learn how to depend on himself afterwards.
The way they connect it with the changing town is interesting to me as well. In my opinion, Tomoya was dissatisfied with how the town was changing because he didn't want things to change. Partially, it was probably because his memories were with that old town, but I also think he wanted his life with Nagisa to stay the way it was, so change started scaring him.
It's true that he wasn't afraid of the baby though.... Well, this is all my opinion right now.
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