Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[Pellissier]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Shakugan no Shana II, Episode 5.

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[fuzzles]

YES!! this episode is gonna have more wilhelmina can't wait!

[ashlay]

Didn't expect the episode title would refer to Shana and Wilhelmina. 0_o

This entire thing was just wonderful. I'm always laughing at the ongoing subplot of Wilhelmina vs. food. (the 2nd commercial break image looks like something out of shana-tan :heh:) But beyond that, all the interactions this week, from Shana and Wilhelmina, to Wilhelmina and Chigusa, to Ogata and Eita, just totally killed me. all of them were cute or touching or just hilarious to watch. I'm rather liking the perverse/odd senses of humor from the extra materials last season having a slightly larger influence on season 2.


oh, and seeing as how not only did the butler have a bracelet on his right wrist like Konoe, but they also made a visual note of it, it's got to be Hecate and Fecor using some sort of unrestricted method/hougu. -_- Can't wait for Sydonay eventually flying in out of nowhere in a few weeks and whisking Hecate away again.

[Algent]

http://pix.nofrag.com/a/d/0/d5f374ac95df50e54ab51f2cb47dbt.jpg (http://pix.nofrag.com/a/d/0/d5f374ac95df50e54ab51f2cb47db.html)
This episode seem to be very useless, but now we know for sure that the answer of this bad joke could be the bracelet (hougu ?).

[minhtam1638]

Hold up, Wilhelmina cooked up some garbage lettuce and it was actually good???

Must... find... raw...

[stormy001_M1A2]

Guess I am not the only one thinks the bracelet is dodgy.

[HayashiTakara]

everytime a new episode is released, angels sing, lol, cant wait to watch tis one

[Klashikari]

This episode is...
*breaths calmely* again another "development" or should I say, filler.
Again for starter: No, i'm not a "YuujiXShana" lover (as I can see they are the most compatible couple but i don't claim that thing much), not i'm a brainless action lover (since romance has a good part in this franchise, as S1 already proved it). But seriously, the series isn't taking off one bit in pace nor in content.

I felt very hurtful that the scripters are going into a "forced jealousy" situation for such show. Seriously, we already got both main girls (Shana and kazumi) having their jealous and rivalry periods. Heck, I think they were even more serious in S1 because Shana and Kazumi ACTUALLY compete for Yuuji, even though both of them obviously can't beat the advantages of their respective rival.
I know that Konoe/hecate has a eerie/mystical deep bound with Yuuji already, but the jealousy here is somewhat silly.
What is actually problematic is actually the lack of development for this forced situation as none of the "square" actors are progressing one bit.
Meanwhile, the first season was GREAT, because they WERE able to mix the main plot with the chemistry and developments of the characters. Even Kazumi wasn't that shafted despite her little-to-none role for the bal masqué arc.

In this regard, Yuuji is probably the worst: He KNOWS that Kazumi loves him (he even remembers about her confession in this season). However, he is CLUELESS why she isn't even eating with each other. Even Ike is fed up with this, but the good ol' Yuuji earned a EX rank for his "density" skill. it is completely scary how he is unable to comprehend such "hostile/angry" behaviour from Shana and "Distance" from Kazumi.

The situation didn't developed one bit. HECK, Eita and Matake are looking much more normal and they actually look like a conscenting awkward couple already. At this rate, even KeisakuXMargery will realized before the situation unstuck.

*sigh* vent off... But seriously, even without a real action from Konoe, the situation is desperate and I fail to expect anything high from the romance aspect of this episode.

That said, this episode earned a 6, better than last week because the "humor" and entertaining parts were actually working a bit (wilhelmina F-rank cooking skills)
However, they are taking the whole half of this episode, and it is weird to actually think that Sydonay is actually doing a job, while Bel Peol is plotting something already. (they actually hinted the butler... that's good, but not enough).
It is weird to actually think that "Yuuji, the lucky Reiji maigo Mystes" isn't even attacked yet. Oh well...

I don't expect any full "romance developing into a confession" episode, nor a "slay a whole tomogara army" episode either.
But... by the grace of Aiur... i would like to see the scripters to do something about the coherence of the script and the pace of the events. At this rate, they will absorb like 10 episodes on "konoe's arc" without much for later.

[serenade_beta]

However, they are taking the whole half of this episode, and it is weird to actually think that Sydonay is actually doing a job, while Bel Peol is plotting something already. (they actually hinted the butler... that's good, but not enough).
It is weird to actually think that "Yuuji, the lucky Reiji maigo Mystes" isn't even attacked yet. Oh well...

At this rate, they will absorb like 10 episodes on "konoe's arc" without much for later.

The mysterious bracelet that caught people's attention the episode she appeared...
I haven't watched the episode yet, but the focus on the bracelet could be important. Of course, it could be something simple as them just wearing the same thing and the producers are pointing it out (like matching T-shirts).
This'd be more believable if the butler was younger...

I was surprised they are spending so much time on this, but then I raised my head and realized it has only been 3 episodes...


Well, I'm not bothering to continue guessing whether Fumina is Hecate or not. Just wait and see...

*sigh*

[FlameSparkZ]

Loved this episode! :D


Though there wasn't much action, it was still good in terms of character development.

As I thought, when the butler answered the door, the chain around his wrist was emphasized...so it must be a Hougu...:uhoh:

And Wilhelmina learning to cook, that was priceless :D

Looking forward to the next episode :nod:

[ashlay]

I was surprised they are spending so much time on this, but then I raised my head and realized it has only been 3 episodes...
well, this really wasn't as much of a konoe-centered episode as the last 2 weeks.

still, I suppose she is the only real issue right now in terms of the "real plot", giving her a certain focus regardless of her screentime per episode...

[Kang Seung Jae]

For starters: I want to try Wilhelmina's roll cabbage.

On the episode: My guess is that the butler is...... Sydonay.

I loved the Eita and Matake scene, potential for development.


Can't wait for next episode: what does Margery have in store for the girls?

[HayashiTakara]

Actually, IMO, just from the last few episodes. The butler was that mysterious guy that was talking to Bel Pole (sp?) and saying that the plan was in motion or something of that nature. So, this is my guess. The butler is him and Konoe is a clone made by him to capture Yuji.

[ashlay]

Actually, IMO, just from the last few episodes. The butler was that mysterious guy that was talking to Bel Pole (sp?) and saying that the plan was in motion or something of that nature. So, this is my guess. The butler is him and Konoe is a clone made by him to capture Yuji.
That would be Fecor, another ridiculously powerful Bal Masque Crimson Lord who has so far had absolutely nothing to do with the anime. 0_o

[serenade_beta]

I'll put my thoughts in categories this time...

Yuuji- God, he's dumb. How long will it take him to figure out what's going on? He's like "they have something they need to do" and actually believes it...

Yoshida and Shana- ......... Spends episode sulking, staring at air, being jealous... And Shana shouts at Wilhelmina :( .

Margery- Most useless character so far for this season... Spends her whole time drinking...

Matake/Eita- Heh, mah~, ganbatte.

Keisaku- Nothing important...

Fumina- Still latched onto Yuuji :) , still wants assistance :) , still being Fumina, polite language and all. :)

Jiiya the Butler- Must be hard to take care of her...

Fumina's mansion- Big! As expected of Miss Princess Oujo-sama.

Wilhelmina- Not the best of days for her... Shana shouts at her, she causes absolute destruction

Alastor/Marcosias- Who cares...


Brancelet Zoom-up - I'll say it's a coincidence and is a false warning.

[anselfir]

dont be so hard on animu yuji, since he is the centre of plot, and plot dictates his character insofar as his actions define plot. his obliviousness is necessary to faciliate a certain inept plot construction.

[darktruth]

But it's so hard to accept Yuji's density after it's been proven he CAN identify when a girl likes someone (e.g. Yukari Hirai in season 1) and it's been mentioned that he even remembers Yoshida's confession to him, yet he is still so oblivious to it.

[GoldAlchemist]

I've just finished downloaded this episode. It seems like the opinions are very diversed for this one. :heh:

My wish for this episode is "I hope the story would progress faster!"

[mist2123]

Now thats what i call Food poisoning!

[Darknemo2000]

Though many might complain that this episode can be better you also should remember that it can be worse as well, to prove that - you can always watch Zero No tsukaima 2 season to see how excatly JCC Staff can screw things up. Though Shakugan No shana might be at some points not all that pleasing, its still way WAY better than anything that ZnT 2 had to offer.

[minhtam1638]

If there is one thing to remember as well, Yashichiro Takahashi is also involved in the story writing for this anime. Apparently, it looks like he's using the first six episodes to try to get this story back on track with the novels.

[serenade_beta]

If there is one thing to remember as well, Yashichiro Takahashi is also involved in the story writing for this anime. Apparently, it looks like he's using the first six episodes to try to get this story back on track with the novels.

Why do you say that? In fact, doing something like adding a new character (Fumina) only works the opposite way.


Suddenly, starting tomorrow, there will be a complete (?) test.

As a counter-measure, Yuuji and co. decide to have a study group when Ogata suggests it. The members are the friends that eat lunch together, Satou and Tanaka, who offered their house for the meeting, and adding Fumina makes 8 people.

After the studying starts, naturally, Ike and Shana ends up teaching everyone. Howevere, Shana doesn't like the fact that Fumina sits next Yuuji as if it is obviously supposed to be like that.

Also, Kazumi, who is using the kitchen to cook dinner for everyone, could not keep herself from feeling lonely from Yuuji's, who treats Fumina too nicely, attitude.

But, when Margery finally appears, the girls' feelings begin to change greatly.

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/06_01.jpg Margery does something?! USO!

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/06_02.jpg Knife - check! Saw - not here...

*yawn*

*walks away*

*comes back with tea and snacks*

It's gonna be a long episode... *sigh*

[minhtam1638]

Oh... no. That will not be good. I love Fumina and all, but this is getting ridiculous. I just hope everything gets settled so that it's back to the way it should be - on par with the novels.

[serenade_beta]

Oh... no. That will not be good. I love Fumina and all, but this is getting ridiculous. I just hope everything gets settled so that it's back to the way it should be - on par with the novels.

How many episodes do you wager will continue the "Jealous girls, idiot guy, parasite girl" plot?

-_-

At least two... But maybe more... more... :upset:

Well, more Fumina is good. But...

[minhtam1638]

How many episodes do you wager will continue the "Jealous girls, idiot guy, parasite girl" plot?

Depends on how many arcs we have left. It's just that I don't understand the Fumina deal, and I hope it gets resolved by Episode 8, because we need to get to the month of November eventually (where Shana meets Pheles) before we end it with Christmas.

Plus, I will NOT be happy when the ending gets rushed. I won't stand for Shana II turning into a "Chrono Crusade 2007".

[serenade_beta]

Plus, I will NOT be happy when the ending gets rushed. I won't stand for Shana II turning into a "Chrono Crusade 2007".

The best comparison might be Zero no Tsukaima 2.

Now THAT was rushed.

(Well, I've never watched Chrono Crusade before)

[minhtam1638]

The best comparison might be Zero no Tsukaima 2.

Now THAT was rushed.

(Well, I've never watched Chrono Crusade before)

I haven't watched ZnT yet. I might be, though.

[ashlay]

The best comparison might be Zero no Tsukaima 2.

Now THAT was rushed.

(Well, I've never watched Chrono Crusade before)
I dunno. that was really more of a new production team problem, which makes it something of a poor comparison to Shana.

[serenade_beta]

I dunno. that was really more of a new production team problem, which makes it something of a poor comparison to Shana.

Dunno. I usually don't pay attention to things like company production teams, etc.

Show-wise though, Zero 2 had a blazing last few episodes (in a bad way).

[Darknemo2000]

Also Zero No Tsukaima 2 had the idiotic Agnes arc. Which was somewhere around 6 episodes length. You complain about Fumina's arc here? But its not like Shakugan no Shana II will be 12 episodes and besides all main characters are involved.

In ZnT 2 during Agnes arc all attention was centered on new character Agnes while main characters were not really involved (if involved only in a forced kind of way), more so it took half of the season away showing the past of a character that no one cares about and whos story in actual novels was only a short break from the main story. ZnT II started telling the main story in last 3 episodes, and considering that during these they had to cover 4 volumes of ZnT novels no wonder it felt rushed (well the last volume was ignored completely for the sake of rushed and crappy ending but still).

Yeah you can complain that Fumina's arc is too long but its not like Shana or others are not involved in it and its not like SnS II is only 12 episodes rushed crap like ZnT II was.

So its really not so bad. It really could be worse.

Besides in Shakugan No Shana I am not getting every two minutes of another boobs-joke that was really bothering me in ZnT II. Shana actually tells some story instead of idiotic mix of explosions, boob-jokes and crappy humor.

[UltimaWolf]

Also Zero No Tsukaima 2 had the idiotic Agnes arc. Which was somewhere around 6 episodes length. You complain about Fumina's arc here? But its not like Shakugan no Shana II will be 12 episodes and besides all main characters are involved.

In ZnT 2 during Agnes arc all attention was centered on new character Agnes while main characters were not really involved (if involved only in a forced kind of way), more so it took half of the season away showing the past of a character that no one cares about and whos story in actual novels was only a short break from the main story. ZnT II started telling the main story in last 3 episodes, and considering that during these they had to cover 4 volumes of ZnT novels no wonder it felt rushed (well the last volume was ignored completely for the sake of rushed and crappy ending but still).

Yeah you can complain that Fumina's arc is too long but its not like Shana or others are not involved in it and its not like SnS II is only 12 episodes rushed crap like ZnT II was.

I agree, It could be alot, lot worse than what it currently is, and like

So its really not so bad. It really could be worse.

Besides in Shakugan No Shana I am not getting every two minutes of another boobs-joke that was really bothering me in ZnT II. Shana actually tells some story instead of idiotic mix of explosions, boob-jokes and crappy humor.

I agree, it could be alot, lot worse than it currently is, and like what Darknemo said all the main characters are getting time in the spotline, Though I personally do wish that the love triangle/square would get solved soon and somthing happens ShanaxYuji-wise(IMO). But I'm not minding the Fumina arc so much, I know it'll develop to somthing big later on.

[serenade_beta]

You complain about Fumina's arc here? But its not like Shakugan no Shana II will be 12 episodes and besides all main characters are involved.

I'm not complaining.

[minhtam1638]

Look, right now, all I'm asking is for Shana in that red dress and a bow.

[Tokkan]

This arc will probably be over by episode 7 anyways, story arcs in the Shana anime rarely ever exceed 4 or 5 episodes. Besided, I've enjoyed it so far. Though I haven't seen this episode yet.

[minhtam1638]

oh, yeah... and that near-kiss, too.

[Ratix]

Hm does anyone feel that Majery looked a lot better in Season 2 compared to 1? I didn't really like the way she looked in Season 1, but currently in Seasno 2 somehow, she looked much more cuter and prettier. <_<.

And Chrno Crusade anime ending was epic fail. Felt kind of already weird halfway through, and it builds up to nothingness. It became even more epic fail after I read the manga. The storyline wraps up in a nice climax in the manga, but not the anime which wraps up before the manga does.

[Tokkan]

Finally saw it. Liked it. I like these character centric episodes. Though, just so everyone knows, I do want a return to action just as much as everyone else. I'm just not complaining.

[Ratix]

Hmm... Hope its not like EP4. Didn't like EP4, albeit its "character centric", the development is getting nowhere in that episode other than the fact that we learn that konoe still clings onto Yuji like a parasite and that birds like konoe, and vice versa.

[outcast_within]

it's been a while since i watched season one but.

Didn't wilhelmina used to kick ass?

And didn't shana had like battles and evil doers?

It's like watching futakoi's alternative after watching futakoi only less extreme and less funny and more questionable

[grey_moon]

Muhahahah looks like all my whining about Yuji denseness was justified in epi5. Looks like the writers want us to see how dense he is acting with Ike little word in Yuji's ear. Now all I hope for is a good reasoning for it.

Wilhelmina was just too cute, I'll help taste her food any day.... Actually scratch that, it would be safer all around if I could just cook for her.

I'm starting to think that Shana and Yoshida's emotions are being amplified, maybe as a ploy to beat Shana psychologically and Yoshida just happens to be a bystander.

Looks like Yuji is getting powered up, but please lets not have a mahou shojou transformation, if they do no naked scenes!

[Kristen]

When something works in the first season (Action, complex plot, fast moving storyline, with romane intertwined), why not try to do something different so it doesn't?

This episode was frustrating. In fact, this entire season has been. If I wanted to see people fighting over the love of one person, I'd be watching Myself;Yourself now (Which I do. :)). Shana is not a romance comedy, nor is it a harem adaptation. It is an action series. And so far, I am still waiting for this action.

1 episode was OK. 2 episodes was a bit annoying, but it can work. 3 episodes of this gets on my nerves.

[ashlay]

Hm does anyone feel that Majery looked a lot better in Season 2 compared to 1? I didn't really like the way she looked in Season 1, but currently in Seasno 2 somehow, she looked much more cuter and prettier. <_<.
they changed the art director for this season, so you may just like this guy's overall style choices better.

[grey_moon]

they changed the art director for this season, so you may just like this guy's overall style choices better.

Or maybe girls who are drunk 24/7 turns them on :p

Even though I got a good dose of Wilma this episode, I wouldn't mind some frenzied angry Margery kicking butt. Would be easy for them to do, just bring in the silver armour Tomogara.

I find it really amusing that Alastor has more insight into human needs then Wilma does. I love his voice, but what would make my day is if a crimson lord with Onsokumaru doing the voice turned up.

[anselfir]

haha this Delicious HECATE affair si such a tease.

[Jhono1]

ZZZzzz... Get on whit the show already, this is turning out to be pretty damn slow at the moment, and very annoying compared to the first season. It better pick up speed soon or Im quite sure that I'll drop it for a better "romance" show.

[FlameSparkZ]

I find it really amusing that Alastor has more insight into human needs then Wilma does. I love his voice, but what would make my day is if a crimson lord with Onsokumaru doing the voice turned up.
That would be so amusing :D
*thumbs up*

[Deathkillz]

well even if "this wasnt what i sign up for" type of situation i pretty much enjoyed the development in the end :)
i should laugh at how funny Wilhelmina's creation turned out but be yet seeing her bandaged fingers and mess look...i couldnt bring myself to chuckle...that scene was really sweet with shana accepting that this is something Wilhelmina made with all her heart and i bet she was touched as well knowing that it isnt good at all...heart melting scene ^^

but really...more fighting plz O.O

[minhtam1638]

This episode was frustrating. In fact, this entire season has been. If I wanted to see people fighting over the love of one person, I'd be watching Myself;Yourself now (Which I do. :)). Shana is not a romance comedy, nor is it a harem adaptation. It is an action series. And so far, I am still waiting for this action.

It is NOT an action series - that's second to the romance priority. After all, you have a girl who was taught how to preserve balance in the world and yet not how to deal with emotions of love. It can't get any better than that.

I agree, Fumina is annoying, but let's wait it out a while. (Episode 6 will be trouble in my opinion).

[Kinny Riddle]

http://www.wretch.cc/blog/pikuotaku&article_id=12905501

Taken from piku's Shana blog. It's in Chinese, but just the screenshots alone reveal a lot.

In this episode's eyecatch, upon zoom in of Wilhelmina's cup noodle, we see a hidden message:


MINNASAMA OTUKARESAMA
DESU SHYNA MO 2KININA
RIMASITE MATA MATA
NENMATU NENSI ISO
GASISOUDESKDO
DOUZO YOROSIKU
DESU

Reading it out gets this:
みんな様お疲れ様です。シャナも二期なりまして、またまた年末年始忙しそうけど、どうぞよろし くです。

"Thanks for the hard work. When Shana II begins, we're going have to slave it for the whole year, but keep it up!"

This sounds like a memo towards the animators themselves to pull their socks up.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Ok this starting to get annoying, put aside the lack of action, the main problem is that the plot is going nowhere! For last 3 episodes all we saw was how dense Yuji is, and I don't want to see that anymore. Something better happen soon or I am going to start punching people :frustrated:.

[ashlay]

Reading it out gets this:
みんな様お疲れ様です。シャナも二期なりまして、またまた年末年始忙しそうけど、どうぞよろし くです。

"Thanks for the hard work. When Shana II begins, we're going have to slave it for the whole year, but keep it up!"

This sounds like a memo towards the animators themselves to pull their socks up.
well that's interesting.

wonder if this image was the actual memo or if this was more of an injoke (and there were a bunch of noodle cups with that written on it.)

Ok this starting to get annoying, put aside the lack of action, the main problem is that the plot is going nowhere! For last 3 episodes all we saw was how dense Yuji is, and I don't want to see that anymore. Something better happen soon or I am going to start punching people :frustrated:.
lack of action? we've had 3 weeks of tomogara fights and training sequences every week (minus week 1). :confused:

[minhtam1638]

After a particular question of mine was answered with a novel illustration, I know why they're stalling.

[S_K]

Looks like im not the only one losing my patience
something better happen soon! :frustrated:
I wanna see some more stuff with Bal Masque and there plan argh!

[Cheezy]

This harem shit is not really very pleasing to me. Fumina or whatever should never have existed.

[lua thien]

The Konoe Fumina issue has presented multiple questions in regards to the Balle Masque in this episode: mansion's hostory as stated by Ogata, the bracelets that the butler and Konoe wear, and the empty interior rooms that Yuji noticed.

The bracelets can't be Hougu at all. Yuji would've have sensed it at close-range. There are other tools and artifacts in the Guze that aren't Hougu at all. The bracelets could be suppression devices of sorts, perhaps made by Dantalion or some other source.

By the way, I wonder on how Wilhelmina would fare on the show Hell's Kitchen with that cabbage?

I don't know if Gordon Ramsay is going to die either by Wilhelmina's cooking or getting skewered by the Flame Haze's ribbons if he ranted a bunch of expletives at her.

[taelrak]

Probably, it's not so much the lack of "action" that's annoying as the lack of any real development in any particular area. The "fights" in the 1st couple of episodes didn't really serve much purpose (as far as we can tell at the moment) - and seem more like filler fights just for the sack of having something to fight--even if it was in the novels. Although they introduced the notion of a the keeper, there wasn't a need to devote 2 entire episodes to it.

Building up the tension and the relationship is nice, but there was already an entire episode devoted to it, and now there are 2, and looks like next week will be yet another devoted entirely to the same issue....

And part of the problem is that so many of the issues and dilemmas people are facing have already been done in the first season--and been resolved to a small degree. Yet, we see Shana acting exactly like she did in the 1st season, and Sakai hasn't matured at all from his over-righteous mentality either.

Ah well.

[Anh_Minh]

I wonder about Wilhelmina's social misfitness.

She must have been in her late teens, early twenties at the very least before becoming a Flame Haze (counting on the Middle Age people getting older faster...) How could she forget about food? Margery didn't forget what it means to be human...

Also, in all her centuries of mostly living on her own, Wilhelmina never learnt the basics of cooking?

[taelrak]

I wonder about Wilhelmina's social misfitness.

She must have been in her late teens, early twenties at the very least before becoming a Flame Haze (counting on the Middle Age people getting older faster...) How could she forget about food? Margery didn't forget what it means to be human...

Also, in all her centuries of mostly living on her own, Wilhelmina never learnt the basics of cooking?

Well I doubt Margery knows how to cook either, and I doubt she's as old as Wilhelmina :p

Still, Wilhelmina is just odd. Even the oldest flame haze guy was more in tune with contemporary human practices than her--but then he actually travels from human city to city, whereas I guess she was just isolated for centuries.

I'm also going to venture the theory that a typical young girl in the middle ages would not have been able to be exposed fine dining. She probably would never have been able to even eat meat save for the rare annual village festivals unless she had quite a lot of social status, which may be unlikely.

She has a point though--a variety of foods isn't very practical or even necessary as long as you have the essentials. I'm sure Shana didn't really care about variety before she met Sakai either.

Maybe she just carries cup ramen with her everywhere she goes!

[FlareKnight]

Well I guess the big parts are watching Wilhelmina work on her cooking. She is trying hard and am proud of any progress. Nice to at least see Shana at least getting along with her again by the end.

Do hope things are going to progess some in the future episodes. At least it seems Margery will get up from the couch for a bit. Some fights that feel like they really mean something or are pushing the characters wouldn't hurt.

[taelrak]

Well I guess the big parts are watching Wilhelmina work on her cooking. She is trying hard and am proud of any progress. Nice to at least see Shana at least getting along with her again by the end.

Do hope things are going to progess some in the future episodes. At least it seems Margery will get up from the couch for a bit. Some fights that feel like they really mean something or are pushing the characters wouldn't hurt.

It's kind of scary that the end result is actually "progress".

Still, considering the level attention to detail she has, it's completely implausible that she couldn't learn how to cook something when being taught by someone who knows how to cook...

I mean, this whole thing about "pouring your love into the food you cook" aside (who ever came up with that one?), learning how to cook from scratch is just a matter of being careful and paying attention to the details--and Wilhelmina has plenty of both traits.

[DazarGaidin]

*yawns* There is much better romance/harems out there. I think part of whats bothering me is that shana used to be such a badass character with occasional cute moments slipping in, now all the badass is kinda gone ( i mean where did the shana who made the teachers cry, only cared what yuji thought and others be damned go?). She is like generic harem tsundere number 1000. Yuji doesn't seem as sharp either. My interest in this season is starting to wane.

I loved the romance element/development they had between them, but it was always framed in reference to their struggle in a world outside reality, and their fated circumstances (she a flame haze, and he no longer a human). Even the stalker girl made a little sense framed in that, she was there to emphasize the humanity Yuji was no longer a part of..and couldn't ever really be. (this point was clearly negated this season..)

[minhtam1638]

Look, after learning about events in the novels that the anime clearly missed, here's my conclusion: Takahashi is adding these events for one reason - that some important events in the past 9 novels that have been missed need to be expressed. If they were skipped, they have to come up with some way to go back to that. Fumina is the best way to go back to one particular scene that creates another stepping point in Yuji and Shana's relationship.

[taelrak]

*yawns* There is much better romance/harems out there. I think part of whats bothering me is that shana used to be such a badass character with occasional cute moments slipping in, now all the badass is kinda gone ( i mean where did the shana who made the teachers cry, only cared what yuji thought and others be damned go?). She is like generic harem tsundere number 1000. Yuji doesn't seem as sharp either. My interest in this season is starting to wane.

Eh, Yuji was never really that sharp to begin with though. He's always been one of those main characters that struggle and struggle and FINALLY comes up with the right path and you just want to smack him thinking "wtf...it took him that long to come up with THAT?"

There's too much focus on that other blonde girl too (Yoshida? or something? she's so boring that I don't even remember her name). Sure, it was nice for a girl with actual awareness of what she wants as a mechanism to develop the main characters--but that was season 1. It's over and done with--we don't need her to be hanging on and dragging the show down in what's obviously a lost cause.

Same with Konoe and Pheles - okay, Shana gets jealous. Sakai likes her...we get the point, moving on then to the actual story...?

Shana spent 13 episodes of season 1 sulking....maybe this season she'll grow up after only 12? :p

Basically same criticisms as Zero no Tsukaima--just overall weak and trite characters (all the worse since the author wrote two series using the exact same characters).

Still, I've always liked the premise of the Shana series, and Wilhelmina and Rammie rock!

[Rhyel]

Quality drop?

Wilhelmina is the same height of Shana?

This episode is boring like episode 4, all events in this episode already happened before, and this is not a "eternal dream" spell. ;)

5/10

[taelrak]

Quality drop?

Wilhelmina is the same height of Shana?

This episode is boring like episode 4, all events in this episode already happened before, and this is not a "eternal dream" spell. ;)

5/10

Growth spurt! She's at that age and all....

[Shabazza]

Well... absolutely nothing happened in this episode 8/

[Anh_Minh]

Well I doubt Margery knows how to cook either, and I doubt she's as old as Wilhelmina :p
No, but she at least knows how to drink. How to feel pleasure.

Still, Wilhelmina is just odd. Even the oldest flame haze guy was more in tune with contemporary human practices than her--but then he actually travels from human city to city, whereas I guess she was just isolated for centuries.
That only makes it weirder. Whereas Khamshin could conceivably eat at restaurants all the time, Wilhelmina had to rely on her own cooking. How did she survive?

I'm also going to venture the theory that a typical young girl in the middle ages would not have been able to be exposed fine dining. She probably would never have been able to even eat meat save for the rare annual village festivals unless she had quite a lot of social status, which may be unlikely.
She grew up as a European princess. (See the metaphysics thread.) Sure, they didn't have access to the kind of variety in ingredients we do (year-round, too!), but they did know how to eat for fun.

She has a point though--a variety of foods isn't very practical or even necessary as long as you have the essentials.
Eating nothing but cup ramen can't be healthy. Though I suppose Flame Haze have magical ways of dealing with malnutrition.

I'm sure Shana didn't really care about variety before she met Sakai either.

Maybe she just carries cup ramen with her everywhere she goes!

Shana's odd because Wilhelmina raised her. What's Wilhelmina's excuse?

[minhtam1638]

Um... is it just me, or did Margery have an orgasm in this episode?

[puretsundere]

Again, another nice and enjoyable episode for me. I really liked episode 4, so episode 5 was another great episode. I still enjoy the jealous tones from Yoshida and Shana.

It's was nice to Wilhelmina try to cut dinner for Shana. And it was also nice to see a little romance between Eita and Ogataa.

Again, another episode that made my day.

[taelrak]

Incidentally, am I the only one who preferred Shana the way she was before she met Yuji? :p

[minhtam1638]

Incidentally, am I the only one who preferred Shana the way she was before she met Yuji? :p

Did the old Shana ever smile? Uh... that would be your answer.

[taelrak]

Did the old Shana ever smile? Uh... that would be your answer.

Sure she did - every time she ate melon bread.

Is smiling really relevant or important?

[Aquifina]

The reconciliation of sorts between Shana and Wilhelmina saved the episode, but for the most part, this ep. has been the dog of the season for me. The jealousy thing is definitely being dragged out too long, although at least there was some development in other areas--the mystery behind Konoe, Shana and Wilhelmina, etc.

[Edel]

Though many might complain that this episode can be better you also should remember that it can be worse as well, to prove that - you can always watch Zero No tsukaima 2 season to see how excatly JCC Staff can screw things up. Though Shakugan No shana might be at some points not all that pleasing, its still way WAY better than anything that ZnT 2 had to offer.

I am Dissapointed with this comment , ZnT 2 has the last episode FUCKING FILLER! and a lot of excesive fanservice but the animu is simply great ... in Exchange, Shana Second is getting TOO BAD! 5 episode of Fillers and SHOUJO ELEMENTS that ruins the season, I WANT THAT EPIC BATTLES WITH A LOT OF FRAMES! at least ZnT 2 has "Saito vs 70000" last battle ... SnS 2 now is like School Days :frustrated:

[ashlay]

I am Dissapointed with this comment , ZnT 2 has the last episode FUCKING FILLER! and a lot of excesive fanservice but the animu is simply great ... in Exchange, Shana Second is getting TOO BAD! 5 episode of Fillers and SHOUJO ELEMENTS that ruins the season, I WANT THAT EPIC BATTLES WITH A LOT OF FRAMES! at least ZnT 2 has "Saito vs 70000" last battle ... SnS 2 now is like School Days :frustrated:
don't you think it's a little questionable to compare the first 5 episodes of a 26 episode series to the end of a 13 episode one? -_-

[Whitemoon648]

Growth spurt! She's at that age and all....

She is a flame haze. Flame hazes dont grow. Neaither will Sakai since he is a mystes.

[minhtam1638]

She is a flame haze. Flame hazes dont grow. Neaither will Sakai since he is a mystes.

Of course Shana could grow. Just give her platform shoes.:D

Seriously, once a human becomes a Flame Haze, their physical maturation completely halts.

[Kisuke06]

It's getting painful to watch this show... nothing happens...

[tabun]

While watching the episode, I was frantically waiting for the point at wich Shana or Yoshida would snap and confront Yuji directly, but it never came. Not even after Ike got a little more direct did anything happen. It was quite frustrating, but then again, no judgement till the last episode.

Actually, mintham2448's comment helps me keep my breath a little longer now. Of course, this forced situation is annoying, but if the result justifies it, then so be it. There were, at the very least, some nice scenes in there.

Although, after a week of waiting, it leaves a stale taste.
Um... is it just me, or did Margery have an orgasm in this episode?
You should get out more, IMO. :heh: j/k

[minhtam1638]

You should get out more, IMO. :heh: j/k

Urusai, urusai, urusai! It's bad enough after seeing the subbed version of Wilhelmina's explanation of how she made her cabbage roll and go into a rant of how a cabbage roll should be made.

[alvinkhorfire]

When Yuji saw Shana running away during the walk to school with Fumina, Yuji tried to approach Shana only to be stopped by Fumina. Man, why has Fumina to be so disruptive?

During conversation with Oga after sending Fumina back home, Yuji said he felt something was strange with the mansion. Erm, let hope we will get to know about this mystery as soon as possible.

About bracelet, could it be just that Fumina and butler are wearing it because of their culture? It may just as harmless as that. But, I still think there is possibility it is a hougu or something.

[Tokkan]

don't you think it's a little questionable to compare the first 5 episodes of a 26 episode series to the end of a 13 episode one? -_-


Yeah.

I really don't get these people who are comparing this show to ZnT or saying "this entire season has been bad"... yeah, it's not really the time to say those kind of things, especially when we're only 1/5 into the series.

[serenade_beta]

When Yuji saw Shana running away during the walk to school with Fumina, Yuji tried to approach Shana only to be stopped by Fumina. Man, why has Fumina to be so disruptive?

During conversation with Oga after sending Fumina back home, Yuji said he felt something was strange with the mansion. Erm, let hope we will get to know about this mystery as soon as possible.

About bracelet, could it be just that Fumina and butler are wearing it because of their culture? It may just as harmless as that. But, I still think there is possibility it is a hougu or something.

Fumina, for some reason, always tries to keep Yuuji by her side, except when she goes home, where Jiiya takes care of her.

Yuuji finds the mansion strange because it is SO big and there are so many empty rooms. Of course, anyone who hasn't lived in such a mansion would indeed find it overwhelming.

Well, they have lived overseas before. Anything is possible...


P.S. Lots of 殺気 in the thread... -_-

[holyman282]

I really enjoyed ep 4, and thought that I would probably enjoy this ep too. Funnily enough, this ep felt a bit average compared to the other eps and before i knew it, the ep ended without anything really happening apart from the continuous strain Konoe is putting on Yoshida and Shana.

There were however some nice hints to Konoe, alot of people speculated that the bracelet could be a hougo and this ep kind of cemented that idea in my head as we got a shot of the butler wearing the same bracelet.

[Sorrow-K]

I don't think things really are as bad as people are making them out to be. Yes, the pacing is wretched, and the retcon and plot device in the form of Fumina are examples of clumsy writing, but there's still a bit of good stuff in this. I much prefer this type of stuff, where we actually get to see character interactions and good deal of (justified) angst and frustration to the pointless action-orientated arcs that made little contribution to the overall plot that we got a few times in the first series.

I think people are expecting too much from this series if they were expecting to see any amount of progress between Shana and Yuuji before, at the very least, well into the second half of the series. By throwing Fumina into all of this and making an elaborate love rectangle, even though it sends Shana and Yuuji's relationship backward, it at least forces them to look at the state of their relationship and do something about it. It's a case of two-steps-backwards for x-steps-for-forward, where x may be two or three depending on how the writers are feeling. And we even got a look at the relationship between Shana and Wilhelmina, and hell, after all of that, even a baby-step worth of character development for Wilhelmina. That's something that, arguably, we wouldn't have gotten without Fumina appearing. We're getting progress in all of this, it's just happening at a very slow pace. But this is probably building to something anyway.

Shana's so cute when she's frustrated.

[Jhono1]

Yeah.

I really don't get these people who are comparing this show to ZnT or saying "this entire season has been bad"... yeah, it's not really the time to say those kind of things, especially when we're only 1/5 into the series.

So what? Slow and boring is slow and boring, however you put it.

[4as]

Though many might complain that this episode can be better you also should remember that it can be worse as well, to prove that - you can always watch Zero No tsukaima 2 season to see how excatly JCC Staff can screw things up. Though Shakugan No shana might be at some points not all that pleasing, its still way WAY better than anything that ZnT 2 had to offer.

Of for God's sake, will you just let it go?
ZnT2 is still a decent anime althought not lived up to the novel. EOT
It pretty much feels like your every post now emits some kind of hatred towards ZnT2.

As for episode - better then the last one for me.
This jealousy thing feels a bit unreal... almost like theres something... something ... maybe Konoe produces some kind of pheromones that attracts Yuji but discourages Shana and Yoshida.
Thats it! I figured it out!
... not

[grey_moon]

By the way, I wonder on how Wilhelmina would fare on the show Hell's Kitchen with that cabbage?

I don't know if Gordon Ramsay is going to die either by Wilhelmina's cooking or getting skewered by the Flame Haze's ribbons if he ranted a bunch of expletives at her.

I think he will be dazzeled by her cuteness and beauty and then proceed to try to jump her bones.

I wonder about Wilhelmina's social misfitness.

She must have been in her late teens, early twenties at the very least before becoming a Flame Haze (counting on the Middle Age people getting older faster...) How could she forget about food? Margery didn't forget what it means to be human...

Also, in all her centuries of mostly living on her own, Wilhelmina never learnt the basics of cooking?

Well her Guze no O is introduced as more unsocialable then she is.... But if she was born high ranked then she would have not done any of those mudane day to day stuff then most people would need to do. And if she like Margery became one because of a traumatic event she might have only concentrate on killing tomagura and food would have been just what was necessary to survive.

Look, after learning about events in the novels that the anime clearly missed, here's my conclusion: Takahashi is adding these events for one reason - that some important events in the past 9 novels that have been missed need to be expressed. If they were skipped, they have to come up with some way to go back to that. Fumina is the best way to go back to one particular scene that creates another stepping point in Yuji and Shana's relationship.

Then that is just bad writing on the authors part. They should learn to adapt to the new storyline rather then try make the viewer jump though inconsitency hoops. I mean it wasn't so hard to come up with some plausible reason to make up for Yuji not absorbing Sidney's arm like it is said he did in the novells. If you look at GTO, there are 3 genres which have 3 different endings all which are enjoyable as each other to view.


Yuuji finds the mansion strange because it is SO big and there are so many empty rooms. Of course, anyone who hasn't lived in such a mansion would indeed find it overwhelming.


I believe that the rooms all looked the same, not too sure though

[minhtam1638]

Then that is just bad writing on the authors part. They should learn to adapt to the new storyline rather then try make the viewer jump though inconsitency hoops. I mean it wasn't so hard to come up with some plausible reason to make up for Yuji not absorbing Sidney's arm like it is said he did in the novells. If you look at GTO, there are 3 genres which have 3 different endings all which are enjoyable as each other to view.

Um, excuse me, but do you really think that when J.C. Staff wrote the storyline for the first season that there was actually going to be a second season? With a year-long hiatus, that's an absolute NO. If you want the storyline to be better, go and pay J.C. Staff about $20 million so that they can re-produce the storyline fit for 52 goddamn episodes.

[grey_moon]

Um, excuse me, but do you really think that when J.C. Staff wrote the storyline for the first season that there was actually going to be a second season? With a year-long hiatus, that's an absolute NO. If you want the storyline to be better, go and pay J.C. Staff about $20 million so that they can re-produce the storyline fit for 52 goddamn episodes.

On I'm sorry a professional can't take pride in their work now? Especially if the original author is now involved. Doesn't matter who pays them, good story writing is good story writing. I'm c**p at english, but if I can spot the glaring inconsistencies in the overall story between S1 and S2 I dread to think what a person who actually know about it thinks.

There are plenty of anime that were written as only one season and they didn't go through reality warps to make the thing match the original novel. RM comes to mind.

[minhtam1638]

On I'm sorry a professional can't take pride in their work now? Especially if the original author is now involved. Doesn't matter who pays them, good story writing is good story writing. I'm c**p at english, but if I can spot the glaring inconsistencies in the overall story between S1 and S2 I dread to think what a person who actually know about it thinks.

There are plenty of anime that were written as only one season and they didn't go through reality warps to make the thing match the original novel. RM comes to mind.

Oh, so now it's all about consistency. What in life is consistent? You have to remember that it was only April since Yuji first met Shana, and you expect Yuji to focus his mind on what's going on around him consistently? Even after six months, PEOPLE CHANGE, and they have to deal with it the way Shana is dealing with it now. So get over it.

[grey_moon]

Oh, so now it's all about consistency. What in life is consistent? You have to remember that it was only April since Yuji first met Shana, and you expect Yuji to focus his mind on what's going on around him consistently? Even after six months, PEOPLE CHANGE, and they have to deal with it the way Shana is dealing with it now. So get over it.

Bwuh get over what?

So because I enjoy an anime I can't analyse it and hope for a quality production? I have to ignore things that don't make sense because I am a fan? Hell no, the more I like something the more I analyse it. I'm sorry but I don't blind sheep follow anything.

People may change, but retcons and obvious changes in characters with no explanation are not a good thing. If you have been following any of my posts you would have seen something on the lines of "I hope that we get a good reason for this". I'm judging each episode on its own merit in regards to its place in the whole of the anime and I've been quite vocal about inconsistencies so I ain't changed my tone from the beginning of S2 to now. When I watch SnS I am not expecting a 2x2 shinobunden type story telling.

[charizardpal]

So anyone know what is up with the birds that keep landing on that girl? Its like something out of Beauty & the Beast. Are they spies or something?! I guess we'll know soon enough...

[Masanori Ota]

Just finished watching this episode. I found it to be quite good, actually. Don't know what people are so pissed about. No action != crap episode. By the way, next episode looks to be just as interesting, character-development-wise, as does episode 7. Can't wait for tomorrow. Remember to turn back your clocks, people!

[rimaa]

episode could've been better(in terms of events happening) but i didn't think it was too bad, overall i still enjoyed it

[holyman282]

Just finished watching this episode. I found it to be quite good, actually. Don't know what people are so pissed about. No action != crap episode. By the way, next episode looks to be just as interesting, character-development-wise, as does episode 7. Can't wait for tomorrow. Remember to turn back your clocks, people!

I didn't think it was bad, just average and compared to the previous ep it wasn't nearly as fulfilling to watch.

I don't really care about action, heck I wouldn't mind if they focused half the series on character development, but honestly there really wasn't much character development this ep that we didn't see in ep 4. It was basically the same thing with Shana and Yoshida sticking together, I would of been a little satisfied if they talked a bit more to each other, rather then just look gloomy.

We've already established Shana's and Yoshida's jealousy the previous ep. Ep 4 was enjoyable for me and I even voted a 9 for it because of the character development, but this ep just felt like 23 min of nothing happening. Although we did get a few clues reguarding Konoe, there wasn't anything there in terms of the character development between Yuji/Yoshida/Shana/Konoe. In fact they decided to concentrate on the development of a side character Whilihemina. I certainly had nothing against this ep, it just seemed to come and pass for me that's all, it wasn't a ep that would specifically stand out.

[teachopvutru]

I didn't think this episode was as bad as many said. Even though I agree that the drama part could have shorten a bit... actually, no, they aren't as long as being made out to be, just need "variety" (lol, influenced by Mother Goddess) of execution.

But boy, Konoe's presence seriously is affecting a whole bunch of characters :heh: ... Shana, Wilhemina, Yoshida, Eita, Ogata ... And it does look like (hopefully, at least) that the next episode will answer the questions about their affections.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think about half of this episode is directed toward Wilhemnia... and if that's true, it just emphasize the impact of Konoe's presence, hopefully bearing some significant meanings.

However, it looks like most of us are more frustrated at Yuji's transformation into a typical guy of a harem. Wonder if they'll come up with a good excuse or just ignore it.

[Master Chibi]

If I didn't absolutely ADORE Carmel-san I would have stabbed my eyes out by the end of this episode. Did we really need another episode of Yoshida and Shana acting emo and just flat out stupid? Is Yuji really that fucking thick? I don't know, but no show should take that long to address the issue. Yeah, you're jealous, don't go slamming the window or staring at yourself in the mirror in complete shock because of it.

Cut the bullshit already.

[KaneDragon]

Putting the frustratingly slow Love Square aside... (not to mention how mentally slow Konoe is in general)

Yuji leveled up! Yuji learned "Physical Reinforcement lvl1" :D Good to see him making progress in something, though he'll certainly never try to exploit that for fun and profit. ;)

I can't help but smile every time Tiamat says something.
Wilhelmina: It's time ~de arimasu.
Tiamat: Appointed time. (serious business :p)
*opens, hands over ramen cup*
Alastor: This again?

Also, Alastor's getting kinda amusing... I wasn't expecting him to go "Ramen? Again?" Not to mention his smart remark with the cooking:
Wilhelmina: Please do not worry. I have trained ~de arimasu.
Alastor: Looks like she didn't train to turn the ventilation on...
And later, "wtf is this" at the cabbage thing. :heh:

Has Wilhelmina always been using those other variations of "de arimasu"? "arimashou", "arimasukara", "arimasuka"...

Konoe's butler is obviously a battle butler. I fully expect him to start kicking ass sometime in the future.

[grey_moon]

The episode raised a few questions for me. For example:
Why did Yuji take over taking Konoe to and from school? The butler was there for that.
Ike being spurred into action, he doesn't seem like the type to meddle unless really frustrated.
Shana and Yoshida's jealousy; to me it no longer seems natural.
What did Yuji notice about the house?
The bracelets.

Personally I'm putting all judgements of ShanaXYujiXYoshida on hold until we get more info on Konoe. Everything about her smacks of something that is so out of place (even in the world of SnS).

Highlights of the episodes were:
Wilhemnia trying to cook real food
Wilhemnia cooking noodles with such a serious face
Wilhemnia trying look after Shana and getting flack for it
Wilhemnia trying to readjust her principles of economy over plain enjoyment
Wilhemnia finally having a small win against the deadliest opponents to Flame Haze (yes that is cooking). Notice how she was more injured cooking then she was fighting tomagura!
Wilhemnia in general :)

*edit*
@KaneDragon - Good point about the comments from Tiamat and Alastor they really made me chuckle too.
*/edit*

Things this episode reinforced:
Yuji's mum is indeed worthy of the respect Alastor bestows on her. They should setup a Flame Haze humanity school and send them to see her for a few weeks intensive humanizing course.

[KaneDragon]

They should setup a Flame Haze humanity school and send them to see her for a few weeks intensive humanizing course.
And Margery Daw could lecture them on love while being raging drunk. ^^

[Argent]

I don't understand how anyone could say there was any character development going on in Episode 5 except through wishful thinking. Episode 5 had one revelation, one possible hint (the bracelet), one very nice touch (the attempted hand holding, though by the end they're still at the same place they were before that scene, unable to connect even though they both know they like each other) and everything else was rehashed from the last two - except for Wilhelmina's dinner which was a rehash from things in Season 1.

As was said before - Slow and Boring is just that and there is nothing good about it.

What it means to me is that they have 26 episodes and only 16 episodes worth of actual story, so make with the filler.

The really annoying thing is our main characters are deliberately being shown as not acting like themselves - Shana is being introverted instead of trying to work off her frustration by killing something and Yuji, who's only saving grace before was his uncanny intuition, is being far too dense and entirely too trusting.

This is writing on Auto-Pilot, the surest sign that we are watching filler and not something that is going to move any of the characters forward. Better to give 13 episodes of pure story than 26 episodes with half of them filler. So far, based on the Ep 6 preview, we're hitting that ratio.

[teachopvutru]

I don't understand how anyone could say there was any character development going on in Episode 5 except through wishful thinking. Episode 5 had one revelation, one possible hint (the bracelet), one very nice touch (the attempted hand holding, though by the end they're still at the same place they were before that scene, unable to connect even though they both know they like each other) and everything else was rehashed from the last two - except for Wilhelmina's dinner which was a rehash from things in Season 1.

As was said before - Slow and Boring is just that and there is nothing good about it.

What it means to me is that they have 26 episodes and only 16 episodes worth of actual story, so make with the filler.

The really annoying thing is our main characters are deliberately being shown as not acting like themselves - Shana is being introverted instead of trying to work off her frustration by killing something and Yuji, who's only saving grace before was his uncanny intuition, is being far too dense and entirely too trusting.

This is writing on Auto-Pilot, the surest sign that we are watching filler and not something that is going to move any of the characters forward. Better to give 13 episodes of pure story than 26 episodes with half of them filler. So far, based on the Ep 6 preview, we're hitting that ratio.

I actually see the next episode as there's something. I can't comment on your view about character development part, but I still regard this episode as setting up a stage for that. Hopefully, they will snap out of the emo part in the next episode; it looks like the two are at least about to recover...

Also, if my memory serves me, there's no Wilhemnia cooking in the 1st season. And where did you get the number "16" worth of actual story from? It still seems strange even if you are referring to "there re going to be 10 filler episodes", otherwise you would say that instead.

Your argument about how different Shana is... it already happened in the 1st season; toward the end of that season, she didn't go off and "work off her frustration by killing something and Yuji". No comment about Yuji being dense, though.



All that aside, no one beside me miss "Urusai Urusai Urusai"? :heh:

[Master Chibi]

We've already had Shana being jealous of Yoshida in S1, and Yoshida being jealous of Shana, but now we've got to have BOTH of them being jealous?

And I hope I'm not the only one that doesn't want to wreck Konoe's face in with a metal baseball bat.

[grey_moon]

Personally I find Yoshida and Shana's quiet companionship to be really freaky. I would have much preferred it to be Yoshida trying to break the ice and Shana going "Urusai Urusai Urusai"

[Tokkan]

So what? Slow and boring is slow and boring, however you put it.

... LMAO. Sorry, but you don't quite understand my point. People are talking as if the series has already past the halfway point. And another thing, slow and boring is pure opinion. I for one am not bored with this, I like it. And I don't find it slow by the standards of a 24-26 long series. Go watch Nanoha StrikerS if you want slow. Focusing on characters is always nice.

[Master Chibi]

What's there to focus on when it's simply dragged out for two episodes? You're jealous, we get it.

I mean come on, the episode ended with Yoshida just gasping at the mirror with a toothbrush in her mouth. What the hell are they getting at here?

Yoshida: "SHIT, I HAVE PLAQUE BUILDUP."

[grey_moon]

What's there to focus on when it's simply dragged out for two episodes? You're jealous, we get it.

I mean come on, the episode ended with Yoshida just gasping at the mirror with a toothbrush in her mouth. What the hell are they getting at here?

Yoshida: "SHIT, I HAVE PLAQUE BUILDUP."

Maybe she is imagining that the plaque is Konoe and is eliminating them all :p

[holyman282]

The really annoying thing is our main characters are deliberately being shown as not acting like themselves - Shana is being introverted instead of trying to work off her frustration by killing something and Yuji, who's only saving grace before was his uncanny intuition, is being far too dense and entirely too trusting.

Shana was always introvert so I don't see how that's "not acting like themselves". I think you need to check the dictionary for what introvert means, "person characterized by concern primarily with his or her own thoughts and feelings"

Shana's been acting that way all through S1 too, so i don't see how her character is inconsistent. Also that killing something behaviour of Shana's was just a one time thing and I think she's at least matured past that milestone from S1. Thinking about it, even if she did want to kill something, a Tomogura isn't just going to show up whenever Shana gets sad...

... LMAO. Sorry, but you don't quite understand my point. People are talking as if the series has already past the halfway point. And another thing, slow and boring is pure opinion. I for one am not bored with this, I like it. And I don't find it slow by the standards of a 24-26 long series. Go watch Nanoha StrikerS if you want slow. Focusing on characters is always nice.

I'm not sure about others but I certainly don't hate this ep, just felt it was subpar compared to the previous four. If anything, I was the one avidly defending ep 4 when everyone complained of Yuji's inconsistency and how the show is turning into a harem.

Slow and boring may be pure opinion but so is finding this ep interesting, so I really don't see your point.

What's there to focus on when it's simply dragged out for two episodes? You're jealous, we get it.

I mean come on, the episode ended with Yoshida just gasping at the mirror with a toothbrush in her mouth. What the hell are they getting at here?

Yoshida: "SHIT, I HAVE PLAQUE BUILDUP."

That's precisely my point, where I originally enjoyed the whole Shana/Yoshida jealousy over Yuji in ep 4, I expected something new for this ep, but it just ended up the same as ep 4 where Yoshida and Shana are still jealous, Yuji is still with Konoe.. Nothing really happened apart from Wilhemina learning to cook..

Heck I was expecting that maybe this ep Yoshida and Shana may team up, but instead, they are still enjoying each other's company silently..

[grey_moon]

Shana's been acting that way all through S1 too, so i don't see how her character is inconsistent. Also that killing something behaviour of Shana's was just a one time thing and I think she's at least matured past that milestone from S1. Thinking about it, even if she did want to kill something, a Tomogura isn't just going to show up whenever Shana gets sad...

I thought the whole wanting to fight a Tomogura thing was because it was something that only she and Yuji could do together and Yoshida couldn't. I think that is also why Shana was so stunned by his reaction in the festival scene in S1.

[Tokkan]

Slow and boring may be pure opinion but so finding this ep interesting, so I really don't see your point.

My point is that everyone is getting worked up over 3 measly episodes and acting like they're half the series. This is especially stupid since the website summary of ep 6 gives me the impression of all this being done by ep 7.

[Whitemoon648]

The episode was good, but at the moment that Green haired character is taking up most of my attention. The one in the OP. Shee looks cool. I cant wait to know what she is. A Tomogara or a flame haze. Arrrggh, have to at least wait 2 weeks to know who she is. That is if she is shown after 2 weeks.

i guess you could say the episode was fun but 3-4 episodes in a row with no action is kind of boring. I mean Shana is mainly an action anime right:rolleyes:?

[holyman282]

The episode was good, but at the moment that Green haired character is taking up most of my attention. The one in the OP. Shee looks cool. I cant wait to know what she is. A Tomogara or a flame haze. Arrrggh, have to at least wait 2 weeks to know who she is. That is if she is shown after 2 weeks.

i guess you could say the episode was fun but 3-4 episodes in a row with no action is kind of boring. I mean Shana is mainly an action anime right:rolleyes:?

Once again another person misunderstands the true genre of Shakugan no Shana. True that action plays an important part in the series, but the character and relationship development are equally important. What makes Shakugan no Shana extremely enjoyable is that both the relationship development between Shana and Yuji, propels the action scenes and gives them some sort of meaning behind it. Let's just say the action and relationship devlopment complement each and by saying Shana is mainly action really does insult the show.

[RiXeD]

After watching this ep, I can only ask:

WHERE`S MY PLOT ADVANCEMENT?!


In other words: boring ep is boooooring.
Come on, Konoe is cute and all, but there`s too much of her. Also, I understand Wilhelmina`s feelings, but we`ve already had cooking-learning-comedy-gags in S1. We don`t need to get over them again... Plus the butler has gay moustache.

[serenade_beta]

I believe that the rooms all looked the same, not too sure though

He looked through two rooms and they were very similar. Though it does not necessarily mean anything. Such a big mansion after all...

The episode raised a few questions for me. For example:
Why did Yuji take over taking Konoe to and from school? The butler was there for that.
Ike being spurred into action, he doesn't seem like the type to meddle unless really frustrated.
Shana and Yoshida's jealousy; to me it no longer seems natural.
What did Yuji notice about the house?
The bracelets.

Probably because the butler attends to the house and Fumina grows attached to Yuuji. Yuuji can also attend her at school, so it's smoother for Yuuji to do so rather than Jiiya.

He might have been really frustrated. Plus, Kazumi was involved.

Oh well...

Possibly something pointlessly normal, possibly something to do with the Crimson World

Plenty of people wonder too.

And I hope I'm not the only one that doesn't want to wreck Konoe's face in with a metal baseball bat.

*points to avatar*

[grey_moon]

Probably because the butler attends to the house and Fumina grows attached to Yuuji. Yuuji can also attend her at school, so it's smoother for Yuuji to do so rather than Jiiya.


I can't see how it is smoother since Yuji (and especially Yoshida) have to go out of their way. Its only smoother if the butler is a lasy arse and doesn't want to drive. I would have thought that Butlers attend their masters first over attending the house, but I guess I'm being influenced by Hayate :p. If I was the butler I would be pooing myself over the safely of Konoe.

[serenade_beta]

I can't see how it is smoother since Yuji (and especially Yoshida) have to go out of their way. Its only smoother if the butler is a lasy arse and doesn't want to drive. I would have thought that Butlers attend their masters first over attending the house, but I guess I'm being influenced by Hayate :p. If I was the butler I would be pooing myself over the safely of Konoe.

Hmm...

I see it this way, perhaps:

Butler goes:

Uses fuel/energy
Yuuji goes to school
Fumina goes to school

Yuuji goes:

Yuuji goes to school
Fumina goes to school

...

Makes it sound like the butler is lazy >_< ...

Oh well...

[grey_moon]

Hmm...

I see it this way, perhaps:

Butler goes:

Uses fuel/energy
Yuuji goes to school
Fumina goes to school

Yuuji goes:

Yuuji goes to school
Fumina goes to school

...

Makes it sound like the butler is lazy >_< ...

Oh well...

Hee hee, but to be honest what stands out to me is the lack of concern from the butler. If I was in his shoes and especially since Konoe is so helpless I could not leave her safety in the hands of a stranger especially a child. Konoe is either his source of income, his sense of duty or both. Something must be going on which makes it not as innocent as everything appears.

I was hoping to spot a white tiger in the house, but I was sorely disappointed.

[Whitemoon648]

Once again another person misunderstands the true genre of Shakugan no Shana. True that action plays an important part in the series, but the character and relationship development are equally important. What makes Shakugan no Shana extremely enjoyable is that both the relationship development between Shana and Yuji, propels the action scenes and gives them some sort of meaning behind it. Let's just say the action and relationship devlopment complement each and by saying Shana is mainly action really does insult the show.

I know i know. But still its more action orientated. Its not pure action. Its like action + romance and of course what anime doesnt have drama *_*. I was sort of trying to be sarcastic on my above post ( so the reason for the face ) but its ok. I wasnt clear ;).


P.S. Still come on, 3 episode in a row with character development >_<. I need to know who is that lovely green haired girl :love:.

[cyth]

I know i know. But still its more action orientated. Its not pure action. Its like action + romance and of course what anime doesnt have drama *_*. I was sort of trying to be sarcastic on my above post ( so the reason for the face ) but its ok. I wasnt clear ;).It has action, but it's not an action show. You might see more of the swords and magic but that's because you want to see it that way.

Though I'm finally starting to see the shounen flare, now that everyone's hyping up Yuuji's progress in handling Existence. I couldn't see any of that in S1 when most of Shana's strength depended on the state of her personality.

[Double T]

I think people are not giving enough attention to the many hints in this episode:
First off the mansion. Why is it so big, yet so empty inside? Normally, there should be tons of useless things in a noble´s mansion like bookshelves, statues, at least some kind of big vase or something...but there is nothing:confused:. Also, most of the rooms seem to be exactly the same, which is pretty strange. I think this whole mansion is just a decoy which has yet to reveal his real form and intention...
Did you notice that Sakai mentioned that he thought that the mansion looked pretty new to him, as if it was build not a long time ago?;)
Next thing is the bracelet, which has bothered me since I first saw it on Konoe. This episode just confirms that there has to be some kind of meaning behind it, maybe it is even the key behind the mystery of Konoe, but I just can´t figure out what it is for...
About Konoe herself, am I the only one who finds it strange that she doesn´t seem to remember Satou? Also her reply, that if it´s about yuji, she remembers, sounded a little bit strange to me…

Well, the biggest question now would be why? What purpose has Konoe for the main story or the Bal Masque? I think isolation from shana is the main reason, and that works just perfectly. If Shana is not around Yuji, it is quite easy to kidnap him and steal the Reiji Maigo without shana even noticing until it is too late. We know also that Shanas fighting abilitys are influenced by her emotions, which means that right now she is vulnerable and not even able to defend herself against stronger enemys. So, instead of sending a whole army of tomogara after yuji to kidnap him with force, they took the option of sneaking up to him, which is imo a much more intelligent approach.:cool:

The only real issue I have with the story right now are the characters actions, as they are a little bit too weird for my taste. Yuji seems magically drawn to Konoe, even the teacher said that he spends a lot of time with her, yet he doesn´t seem to realize. I know he just wants to help and all, but even he should have realized until now, that the more he stays with Konoe, the more he gets isolated from Sahna and the rest. Yoshida already confessed to Yuji, yet she seems too afraid to ask him what kind of feelings he harbours for Konoe. I mean, if you already had the guts to confess, then such a question should be simple to ask.

One last thing that bothered me: did you notice that black car:twitch:? It was twice in this episode and I even think it was shown before when Konoe appeared for the first time. I don´t know if this is a hint or just my imagination, but still it caught my attention.
Overall I think it was a good episode with all these hints and I really hope the characters snap out of it by the next episode so we can move onto the main story.

PS: Hey, my first post in this forum! Looks like the end of me being a lurker here...:heh:

[grey_moon]

@Double T - I thought the same things too in regards to this epi. I really am thinking that the writers built up this whole situation as a platform to launch us into the next stage of the story.

Grats on your first post!

[Skane]

Oh thank goodness, so I was not the only one perturbed by the "overfocus" on the black car.

Cheers.

[fuzzles]

6/10

wtf was that i can't believed the episode ended there! sigh filller oh well : ( i think konoe's arc started too soon or they're taking they're time with it orsomething the series is starting off boring if i didn't watch season 1 there'd be no way i'd continue watching this i guess they're relying on season 1 fans to keep interest by themselves

on another note i am liking the development of wilhelmina and yuuji's mom being a wise one again

[Kiyoru]

meh, it was an okay episode. Not one of my favourites though. I thought it was pretty funny when Wilhelmina was cooking though, trying to be serious. especially when Shana walked in and the battle music started, when it turned out to be her cooking ;p

k, I'm getting sick of Shana now. I was a fan of her to begin with, but she's being selfish now. She really thinks Yuuji likes Konoe, but he's only looking after her, because the teacher asked him, surely she should understand that.

[serenade_beta]

I think people are not giving enough attention to the many hints in this episode:
First off the mansion. Why is it so big, yet so empty inside? Normally, there should be tons of useless things in a noble´s mansion like bookshelves, statues, at least some kind of big vase or something...but there is nothing:confused:. Also, most of the rooms seem to be exactly the same, which is pretty strange. I think this whole mansion is just a decoy which has yet to reveal his real form and intention...
Did you notice that Sakai mentioned that he thought that the mansion looked pretty new to him, as if it was build not a long time ago?;)

Are you a noble to say what should be in there?

Yuuji didn't look through the entire mansion.

Nothing a good clean can't do. *points to Hayate no Gotoku*

[Guardian Enzo]

It's interesting to see the complaints about S II, especially as compared to ZnT. That show, I think, suffered in part because it was overrated - frankly, ZnT wasn't all that special to begin with. Ironically, it was perfectly suited to a second season - it's not like that was tampering with anything sacred, and there were some unanswered questions left hanging. But as it turned out there just wasn't enough in that story or those characters to sustain it - ZnT was pleasant brain candy, but no more - I made it through about 2 eps of S2 before what I disliked about S1 (Zero's screeching bitchiness, the shallowness of the relationships) made it unbearable.

Shana, OTOH, really was pretty special - a rare combination of genres that actually worked. The harem, the moe heroine, the supernatural, the action-packed, school-life relationship drama... Everything but giant mecha, pretty much. And it worked. So maybe S II has suffered not from the inflated memories that ZnT did, but from unrealistically high expectations. I'm all about character development and plot over action, normally, but S II feels too... domesticated. I enjoy the "mundane" character interactions a lot, but they worked better as a counterpoint to the fast-paced action than they have as the core of the show. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it - Willy's bizarre self-reflections, Yuuji's cluelessness, Shana's adolescent moodiness. But it is missing that savage edge SI had. Oh, well - nothing an appearance by Khamsin couldn't cure...

[Aquifina]

It's interesting to see the complaints about S II, especially as compared to ZnT. That show, I think, suffered in part because it was overrated - frankly, ZnT wasn't all that special to begin with. Ironically, it was perfectly suited to a second season - it's not like that was tampering with anything sacreligious, and there were some unanswered questions left hanging. But as it turned out there just wasn't enough in that story or those characters to sustain it - ZnT was pleasant brain candy, but no more - I made it through about 2 eps of S2 before what I disliked about S1 (Zero's screeching bitchiness, the shallowness of the relationships) made it unbearable.

Shana, OTOH, really was pretty special - a rare combination of genres that actually worked. The harem, the moe heroine, the supernatural, the action-packed, school-life relationship drama... Everything but giant mecha, pretty much. And it worked. So maybe S II has suffered not from the inflated memories that ZnT did, but from unrealistically high expectations. I'm all about character development and plot over action, normally, but S II feels too... domesticated. I enjoy the "mundane" character interactions a lot, but they worked better as a counterpoint to the fast-paced action than they have as the core of the show. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it - Willy's bizarre self-reflections, Yuuji's cluelessness, Shana's adolescent moodiness. But it is missing that savage edge SI had. Oh, well - nothing an appearance by Khamsin couldn't cure...

I think you make good points, although I think we have had a little bit of that edge early on with Shana's cold-blooded test of Konoe. Because it's only ep. 5, the two recent episodes preoccupation with jealousy seems to fill up more of the series than hopefully will end up being the case. And I'm hoping we will eventually have an action-orientated payoff when Bal Masque finally springs whatever trap it's planning--I think we're getting a lot of foreshadowing of that with the mystery behind Konoe, and Yuuji's own growing abilities. But things do feel like they're dragging, right now--it sounds like they'll resolve the jealousy thing in ep. 6, but they should have done that in this ep. I was in fact expecting Chigusa to do that this episode.

[Double T]

Are you a noble to say what should be in there?

Yuuji didn't look through the entire mansion.

Nothing a good clean can't do. *points to Hayate no Gotoku*

Are you doubting my blood?!:p
Just kidding, I never was in the house of a noble, but from tv and books I would normally expect to see some more antiques lying around.
It´s true we haven´t seen the whole mansion, but the way this scene was presented plus the reaction of Yuji just make me think that something is odd. After all, if Konoe really just turns out to be a normal girl without any relation with the Bal Masque, I would really have to question the sense of the whole Konoe-arc, as it would pretty much be pointless story-wise.

On another note it would be really funny if they made a "Yuji no Gotoku" with Alastor as Klaus, Shana as Nagi, Wilhelmina as Maria, Konoe as Isumi and Yoshida as Nishizawa...endless possibilities:heh:

[minhtam1638]

meh, it was an okay episode. Not one of my favourites though. I thought it was pretty funny when Wilhelmina was cooking though, trying to be serious. especially when Shana walked in and the battle music started, when it turned out to be her cooking ;p

k, I'm getting sick of Shana now. I was a fan of her to begin with, but she's being selfish now. She really thinks Yuuji likes Konoe, but he's only looking after her, because the teacher asked him, surely she should understand that.

Um, actually, Yuji and Fumina kicked it off a day before the teacher asked him to look after her.

[Master Chibi]

Some of you are going waaaaaaaaay too far in hopes of properly explaining the justification for dragging this moronic means of character development on for three+ episodes. At this point I don't give a damn for Konoe because they just shoved her into the story and all I saw was this huge sigin on her that said:

HI, I'M A PLOT DEVICE, ABUSE ME AS YOU WILL

This whole deal with walking around and taking her books out and all that makes me feel like Konoe has downs instead of her being some sheltered rich girl who hasn't seen the light of day outside of her money bin. It's a sorry excuse for character development and I wish they'd hurry up and expose her for whatever she's really supposed to be.

[minhtam1638]

Some of you are going waaaaaaaaay too far in hopes of properly explaining the justification for dragging this moronic means of character development on for three+ episodes. At this point I don't give a damn for Konoe because they just shoved her into the story and all I saw was this huge sigin on her that said:

HI, I'M A PLOT DEVICE, ABUSE ME AS YOU WILL

This whole deal with walking around and taking her books out and all that makes me feel like Konoe has downs instead of her being some sheltered rich girl who hasn't seen the light of day outside of her money bin. It's a sorry excuse for character development and I wish they'd hurry up and expose her for whatever she's really supposed to be.

Sheesh, you make Fumina sound like a prostitute.

[Guido]

I really can't understand why many of you are underrating and bashing the current arc. It's true that the pace has significantly slowed down since episode four, and we haven't seen anymore progress from Bal Masque.

I do not feel very bothered about Konoe's walk-me-into-the-school-routine. The animation staff place her to appear at Yuuji's school and is clinging to Yuuji for a very good reason.

The current arc is focusing to explore on the recurrent characters as well. I think this episode did a wonderful job on showing how Wilhelmina has started to learn how to be open and pour her emotions into her daily chores.

The current arc is clearly dealing with the troubles and conflicting emotions that kids undergo during the transitional stage of puberty and teenage years.

It really makes sense how Shana has become transiently into a troubled teen due that Yuuji overlooks he's investing his care and attention to Konoe but at the same time neglecting Shana and Kazumi.

Like any ordinary teen Shana tries to cope with that frustration by immersing alone in her solitude, as Wilhelmina tries to pry in to check for a logic reason to Shana's behavior.
The result like in any other parent-child relationship is that Shana lashes out to Wilhelmina for bugging her to much and not being considerate about her current state. Walking down the streets, Wilhelmina was stuck and did not know what to do to treat Shana until Chigusa approached her.

Wilhelmina is like the odd-ball mother who doesn't know too much about pouring emotions into her work or how treat her child in dealing with Shana's current frustration.


Second, Ike confronted Yuuji and remarked to the latter to make him conscious that he should not pay too much attention on Konoe at the expense of neglecting both Shana and Kazumi.

I'll overlook up to this episode that Yuuji has been inconsiderate to Shana and Kazumi.
I believe the main trouble with Yuuji is that he puts himself too much in need of any other that requires more attention. It is not bad, but I'm feeling that he's starting to sin too much about it.

And it is a pretty bad idea that he allows Konoe to cling onto him too easily upon Shana and Kazumi watching them, because he's still thick-headed that both girls are feeling jealousy and brushed away.


Then, we have a little bit of progress on the Ogata x Eita pairing, but not a solid outcome has bore fruit in their relationship. Mataku! Those two need a little push so they can start going along as a couple.

Finally, to conclude my post they hinted that Konoe's place is more than meets the eye.

If anyone paid attention, the camera shot at the butler's right hand, and the frame stood still a few seconds to focus that he wears a sort of wristband.

I don't know, but I get the feeling I have seen that item from somewhere before.

Next, as you pays attention inside the manor he checks the rooms and is troubled, according on what he said to Ogata, that the few rooms he managed to see all look vacant and empty. However, my thoughts were upon watching the rooms that all look the same as if it was the same room recycled n times.

That incident with Konoe's house is easily not to forget about on me, because it happens at the middle of a character development crisis and much of the attention the audience places is centered upon the Konoe x Yuuji x Shana | Kazumi rectangle.
Probably, there won't be any progress on the weird nature of Konoe's house and her until a faraway episode.


Honestly, I thought the episode would have Yuuji inviting for dinner at his home due to the title, but appearances were deceiving. It's possible that on the next episode the mayhem referred in the title actually means a sort of trouble that the would be experiencing that will have nothing to do with the actual battles.

[Master Chibi]

Sheesh, you make Fumina sound like a prostitute.

I don't understand why:

1. She needs to be walked to school every day. Get her a motorized wheelchair and call it a day.

2. Have her books taken out and organized properly.

3. Yuji doesn't just eat his food first, and then reguritate into her mouth already.

4. Shana and Yoshida's faces aren't obstructed by giant bangs at this point.

5. Ike, of ALL people is the one who attempted to slap some sense into Yuji, and how Yuji is just THAT thick headed that he doesn't get it.

6. Carmel doesn't just walk around in a towel all day <3.

[minhtam1638]

I don't understand why:

It was the phrase you used. Quote:

HI, I'M A PLOT DEVICE, ABUSE ME AS YOU WILL

Unquote.:D

[SoldierOfDarkness]

I don't understand why:

1. She needs to be walked to school every day. Get her a motorized wheelchair and call it a day.

2. Have her books taken out and organized properly.

3. Yuji doesn't just eat his food first, and then reguritate into her mouth already.

4. Shana and Yoshida's faces aren't obstructed by giant bangs at this point.

5. Ike, of ALL people is the one who attempted to slap some sense into Yuji, and how Yuji is just THAT thick headed that he doesn't get it.

6. Carmel doesn't just walk around in a towel all day <3.

I wonder what Yuji's reaction will be when Konoe's true face is shown.

Personally speaking I'm not the type of guy that believes in coincidences.

[DazarGaidin]

I don't understand why:

1. She needs to be walked to school every day. Get her a motorized wheelchair and call it a day.

2. Have her books taken out and organized properly.

3. Yuji doesn't just eat his food first, and then reguritate into her mouth already.

4. Shana and Yoshida's faces aren't obstructed by giant bangs at this point.

5. Ike, of ALL people is the one who attempted to slap some sense into Yuji, and how Yuji is just THAT thick headed that he doesn't get it.

6. Carmel doesn't just walk around in a towel all day <3.

This post is full of win, i was laughing so hard at number 3. I dont care how rich and spoiled you are, you dont turn into a freaking retard, which is what they make her out to be. Dont they have special education classes where people do what Yuji is essentially doing for her.

[Eisdrache]

God ... GOD I wonder how slow an anime main character can be ...

I am sorry for using strong words like that but if I EVER see someone again posting something like: "I want more action in this action show" I will punch his face with a baseball bat. SnS never intended to be an action series, but more focused on character development.

OnTopic:

I dont know how much experience in love you have but this is probably the first time Shana and Yoshida really like someone. You expect them to take all the courage and confront Yuji directly by saying him what bothers you? Like hell someone would do that in this state of confusion/jealousy. Some of you tend to forget that this is taking place in a high-school where not everyone already got love experience.

[kauldron26]

this is one of those times when a second season suckage ends up taking points from our love of the first season. School Rumble is a Prime example. except shana first season was merely entertaining with no substance to begin with.

[holyman282]

God ... GOD I wonder how slow an anime main character can be ...

I am sorry for using strong words like that but if I EVER see someone again posting something like: "I want more action in this action show" I will punch his face with a baseball bat. SnS never intended to be an action series, but more focused on character development.

OnTopic:

I dont know how much experience in love you have but this is probably the first time Shana and Yoshida really like someone. You expect them to take all the courage and confront Yuji directly by saying him what bothers you? Like hell someone would do that in this state of confusion/jealousy. Some of you tend to forget that this is taking place in a high-school where not everyone already got love experience.

I know what you mean, although the action scenes are well done, it's not essentially the main focus of the show. Those who'd prefer more action in Shana, really isn't appreciating the show for what it actually is.

As for confronting Yuji about his feelings for Konoe, certainly I wouldn't expect the girls to do that.

The one dissapointing thing about this ep was that nothing happened and i don't mean action wise but really nothing actually happened in terms of character development. Despite how many people are a fan of Wilhemina, she's essentially a side character, what I wanted in this ep was more development for the love square issue, but instead we got the same thing happening from ep 4. I would of liked Shana and Yoshida to at least start talking or devising a plan to get Yuji back, but instead they are still silently enjoying each other's company.:eyebrow:

this is one of those times when a second season suckage ends up taking points from our love of the first season. School Rumble is a Prime example. except shana first season was merely entertaining with no substance to begin with.

I have to disagree completely. No substance? Are you kidding me! Shakugan no Shana is all about substance and is what differentiates this show from all the other shounen shows out there. The whole theme of the show, about the torches and powers of existence deals with one of the deepest philosophy's of Existentialism. The concept of torches and normal humans asks the question what it really means to be you. Are you still you even though you're a torch and the real you is dead?

The concept of how individual human beings create the meanings and essence of their own lives is prevalent in Yuji's behaviour and actions, seeking acceptance and believing in his own existence.

The symbolism of the torches and the flame hazes are all indications as flames are used as a metaphor for our lives and our existence.

The relationship development between the characters are nice to and we get to see Shana gradually progress and slowly come out of her shell.

Shana has no substance?! Shana is all about substance and I think you've just been blinded by all the pretty action scenes.

[Eisdrache]

To be honest there was some little character development:
Wilhelmina learned some cooking.
Yuji dodged more attacks and even survived falling from a roof.
Shana yelled at Wilhelmina and felt sorry about that the second after.
Ike told Yuji to consider Shana/Yoshida
Sato(Or the other? Cant remember both names -.-) and Oga

None of them provided a lot of development, but its still far from nothing.

kauldron26: I suggest you search for another series immediately if you dislike this series so much. Why even watch a second season of something you dont like? And to be honest, you dont seem to understand this kind of series very well too.

[DazarGaidin]

I have to disagree completely. No substance? Are you kidding me! Shakugan no Shana is all about substance and is what differentiates this show from all the other shounen shows out there. The whole theme of the show, about the torches and powers of existence deals with one of the deepest philosophy's of Existentialism. The concept of torches and normal humans asks the question what it really means to be you. Are you still you even though you're a torch and the real you is dead?

The concept of how individual human beings create the meanings and essence of their own lives is prevalent in Yuji's behaviour and actions, seeking acceptance and believing in his own existence.

The symbolism of the torches and the flame hazes are all indications as flames are used as a metaphor for our lives and our existence.

The relationship development between the characters are nice to and we get to see Shana gradually progress and slowly come out of her shell.

Shana has no substance?! Shana is all about substance and I think you've just been blinded by all the pretty action scenes.

This is what i feel is lacking this season, the action is a side effect. In other words, this is what the show is really about, and the 'action' is representative of that concept (the other world he was thrust into, which highlights what/where Yuji is now, whatever that may be, compared to what he was). The romantic element was a compliment to this concept, shana representing that other world and the other girl representing what Yuji might have to leave behind/can never really be a part of. This was a heavy theme that seemed to gain closure in S1, and then was tossed out in this season (so far, i admit it is early and this could change, i just wish we didnt have to suffer so long without it). Maybe something will happen that shocks Yuji tot he reality that he can't live as a normal kid in a normal school..well i should say happen again (this was already done with the fight scene in school when he used himself to save his friends who were minced)

Its not that it lacks action it lacks what that 'action' meant, if that makes any sense.

[arkxkra]

The more i watch Yuji, the more i want to kill him, he such a retarded boy + his best friend already give him hint but still dunno ...
the bracelet getting more suspicious, they purposely show the bracelet + shining as well ...
Wilhemina that garbage was loook like will get food poisoning after eat it, but Shana was a "good girl" at least she say what Wilhemina cook will be delicious... :heh:

next episode, Margery Daw will be giving advice to the girl(if it same as the novel vol.8), but not sure is the same since so many diffrent story in Anime...

[holyman282]

This is what i feel is lacking this season, the action is a side effect. In other words, this is what the show is really about, and the 'action' is representative of that concept (the other world he was thrust into, which highlights what/where Yuji is now, whatever that may be, compared to what he was). The romantic element was a compliment to this concept, shana representing that other world and the other girl representing what Yuji might have to leave behind/can never really be a part of. This was a heavy theme that seemed to gain closure in S1, and then was tossed out in this season (so far, i admit it is early and this could change, i just wish we didnt have to suffer so long without it). Maybe something will happen that shocks Yuji tot he reality that he can't live as a normal kid in a normal school..well i should say happen again (this was already done with the fight scene in school when he used himself to save his friends who were minced)

Its not that it lacks action it lacks what that 'action' meant, if that makes any sense.

Interesting you say that, because in the S1, the concept of Yuji's existence has already been thoroughly delt with. Yuji's confusion as to whether he's Yuji or just a copy of the original Yuji has already been settled with his self sacrifice in S1 for those in the class and confirmed when Yoshida told him that she loves this Yuji.

For Yuji to re-live the ideas of his existence in S2 would actually just be a step backward for him. Hopefully in this season, it'll concentrate on other people's dilemma such as Hecate's emptiness, Yoshida's feelings and Ike feelings. There are a lot to go with that can give S2 as much, perhaps even more substance then S1. One things for sure though and that is Shakugan no Shana definitely has alot of substance and S2 has alot of potential.

[Aquifina]

Interesting you say that, because in the S1, the concept of Yuji's existence has already been thoroughly delt with. Yuji's confusion as to whether he's Yuji or just a copy of the original Yuji has already been settled with his self sacrifice in S1 for those in the class and confirmed when Yoshida told him that she loves this Yuji.

For Yuji to re-live the ideas of his existence in S2 would actually just be a step backward for him. Hopefully in this season, it'll concentrate on other people's dilemma such as Hecate's emptiness, Yoshida's feelings and Ike feelings. There are a lot to go with that can give S2 as much, perhaps even more substance then S1. One things for sure though and that is Shakugan no Shana definitely has alot of substance and S2 has alot of potential.

I actually think some focus on Hecate (presumably already beginning with Konoe someway somehow) would be a very interesting place for S2 to go. Which is one of the reasons why ep. 5 frustrated me--we could have already started to deal with that question in the next ep.--instead we've wasted an episode on the whole jealousy bit.

All that being said, there were redeeming elements to this ep. But every series is going to have its weaker pieces, and this was one of them for SNS II. Anyhow, I look forward to next week's--Margery actually gave Ogata good romantic advice in the Hot Springs OVA, so presumably she's going to continue that role next week (I actually thought Chigusa would fix that problem this week, but instead we got lessons on cooking and food for Wilhelmina). I just hope ep. 7 will then be when Bal Masque springs its trap--perhaps Yuuji is captured?--and we can have a more action orientated arc, which is the payoff for all the build-up we're getting with the mystery behind Konoe, and Bal Masque's secret plans. But presumably we're going to need to settle the jealousy issue *first*.

[Terransheep]

I can't really say this is a filler episode. It just feels like there's nothing in this episode, but in fact, there is. Oh well, time always fly so fast when I'm trying to enjoy whatever I'm doing... In this episode, it's the same... Felt like nothing happened...

Yup, like the others said. This ep is like another character developing. I still remember that they were saying season II will going to be lots of character developing, and yeah, please don't forget that.

To my surprise, Shana actually team up(?!) with Yoshida. What are they doing together every lunch break? Did they actually talk, but the camera choose not to work? Or, do they just sit there eating their lunch in silence?

Well, just wait and see, people. Since season I has 24 episodes, and 5 for season II is still just too early~~ We'll see!

:D

[DazarGaidin]

I know it was dealt with, so i was expecting the story to move forward given that (yuji now in that other 'world' and trying to protect ours). Exactly as you said, he is a step back right where he started, so they ARE going to have to either revisit it again or just pretend it never happened. I mean, its like all the meaning from before was forgotten...

Even if it was sorta 'resolved' tho, i think it will always be something Yuji will struggle with (i thought so before i knew about the second series).

[grey_moon]

Are you a noble to say what should be in there?


Modern age, I've been in so many palaces, royal homes and all that what not my feet bleed from the thought of it. Hell I've even looked into the eyes of a royal and didn't go blind!

@Master_Chibi - Your post absolutely awesome :)

[Guardian Enzo]

I tell you, bring back Khamsin and all will be well. He's a one-man Bruckheimer film.

[Master Chibi]

I dont know how much experience in love you have but this is probably the first time Shana and Yoshida really like someone. You expect them to take all the courage and confront Yuji directly by saying him what bothers you? Like hell someone would do that in this state of confusion/jealousy. Some of you tend to forget that this is taking place in a high-school where not everyone already got love experience.

What the hell happened to that fight and spirit they had at the end of season 1?

Neither one was willing to give up, and this reject from the special olympics walks in and they're like: "INSTANT KO, WANNA EMO IT UP ON THE ROOF?" I mean seriously, Shana was pounding on the glass like they locked her up in a mental institution as she saw Yuji walk away with Emonoe (it works better then Konoe). Woman, you've already had this feeling, wake the hell up.

These first five episoes have succeed in killing what REAL development we had been given from S1, and that's a bloody shame. They've completely reset the realtionship, the triangle has turned into a square (which is the worst way to go about it really; HEY LETS MAKE IT MORE COMPLICATED AND HAREM-ESQUE), and Yuji is getting stronger physically but apparently DUMBER mentally?

Something tells me I'm going to get more out of that one episode where Ike finally confesses then this ugly crap we've been given thus far.

[SeedFreedom]

BRING BACK THE ACTION!!!!!!

I'm sorry, but i had to get that off my chest. I love Shana and shes cute when shes jelous but its been almost 4 episodes of NOTHING! Finish this issue, move on and bring out the bad guys. at this pace we wont get any further in the development of Yuji's powers and this "keeper" of his. We also still have no clue what Bel Masque is up to. a ep or two of relationship development is fine but this is overdoing it.

[ashlay]

What the hell happened to that fight and spirit they had at the end of season 1?

Neither one was willing to give up, and this reject from the special olympics walks in and they're like: "INSTANT KO, WANNA EMO IT UP ON THE ROOF?"

These first five episoes have succeed in killing what REAL development we had been given from S1, and that's a bloody shame. They've completely reset the realtionship, the triangle has turned into a square (which is the worst way to go about it really; HEY LETS MAKE IT MORE COMPLICATED AND HAREM-ESQUE), and Yuji is getting stronger physically but apparently DUMBER mentally?

Something tells me I'm going to get more out of that one episode where Ike finally confesses then this ugly crap we've been given thus far.
-what fight and spirit? You remember how long it took Shana to last time? 26 episodes. that's right the entire first season! what, no one here saw yet another setback coming after the 5 to 10 which have already? no one noticed that Yoshida is still giving Yuji lunchboxes? where's Shana's 'fight' there? :eyebrow:
-what makes you think Yuji's gotten dumber? He showed the usual reasoning skills in the first arc and we've had him continue to notice oddities with Konoe, despite everyone assuming she's human.
-And what makes you think Konoe is here to stay? I mean this episode basically makes it as clear as possible without an outright transformation that Konoe is Hecate, or some form of Hecate, and that in turn means she's not going to last long with Bal Masque planning god knows what and 3 flame hazes in town who'd be itching to kill her the second her little secret slips. For that matter where's the romance? It seems pretty clear that Yuji is taking a largely platonic stance to this whole Konoe thing, and Shana still hasn't admitted her feelings for Yuji, and over the course of season one (save the reset end) rejected Yuji's feelings on numerous occasions. Shana needs to tell Yuji her feelings if Yuji is going to understand at this point, that's the overall legacy from season 1. but how many times has Shana admitted her feelings for Yuji?

I'm a little annoyed at this whole idea that this is somehow a move backwards for SnS, when it is in fact "more of the same". you don't like more of the same? fine, but at least call it that instead of acting like this sort of stuff is coming out of nowhere and has absolutely no basis in S1.

[Guardian Enzo]

As I said earlier, I'm normally the poster boy for character development and plot at the expense of action - I loved Zettai Shonen, for crying out loud. I just think Shana needs a little infusion of the piss 'n vinegar badass attitude of S1 - it's become a bit treacly. I mean, really - Yoshida and Shana hanging out together at lunch? By all means keep focusing on the character interaction - but give us some edge, too - not even action, necessarily, but attitude.

[Grimkill7]

A lot of posts about how stupid Yuji has become. I for one, can't believe this. Surely, the man who figured out how Bal Masque would attack with the bonfire when not even Alastor could wouldn't sink to this level of intelligence. The guy who was able to realize the presence of a dream world and break out of it couldn't be this dense. No, no, something else is going on here. Something... bigger...

I GOT IT! Yuji is actually gay! He is pretending to be oblivious so he won't have to hurt Shana and Yoshida's feelings by rejecting them. That has to be it!

Well, either that or his intelligence is being purposefully downplayed by the writers to serve a pointless, hollow plotline that is ultimately going to piss a lot of people off.

...... Nah. He's gotta be gay.

[Anh_Minh]

Yuji's always been blind to the feelings girls had for him. It's not weird for him to not see them now.

[ashlay]

Well, either that or his intelligence is being purposefully downplayed by the writers to serve a pointless, hollow plotline that is ultimately going to piss a lot of people off.
yep, you've got it exactly.

I have no idea why any of this should be surprising to anyone after an entire season has already been aired. If anyone is expecting this to somehow be way above how s1 was, I suggest you lower your expectations here and now. :uhoh:

[grey_moon]

Yuji's always been blind to the feelings girls had for him. It's not weird for him to not see them now.

I think the majority of people who have posted so far gives Yuji from S1 a lot more credit then that. I know I think Yuji was a lot sharper in the past. Him being blind to Shana's feelings might be excused because of her attitude, but blind to Yoshida, no way!

[blewin]

the first half of the episode stresses what's already in place: Shana and Yoshida feeling awkward and angry around Yuji. I don't get why they throw Ogata into the mix though, so now we might expect Eita to get angry with Konoe and Yuji too! that bit with Ogata just seems too much for me. It feels so forced.

but then, I enjoy Shana's interaction with Wilhelmina. man... it was funny when Shana arrives at the house and sees the smoke. The accompanying music is sooooo out of place, lol!!

[Anh_Minh]

Ogata's just there to further estrange Yoshida and Yuuji.

[grey_moon]

Ogata's just there to further estrange Yoshida and Yuuji.

I guess that is a sign that Yoshida has levelled up in the relationship game. In S1 she was the thing to cause havoc in Yuji and Shana's relationship, now she has her own wedge too. Yoshida should be glad as this is a sure sign she is now a real contender for Yuji's heart :D

[Grimkill7]

No matter what happens, I really don't want to see a Yoshida Yuji relationship flourish. Doomed love affairs are far too cheesy. IMO, Ike needs to get off his ass, STOP giving relationship advice that is contrary to his goal, and make his move on Yoshida IMMEDIATELY. I find it ridiculous that he is spending his time trying to patch things up between Yoshida and Yuuji, when it is his most opportune of times. May plot be sacrificed in the name of plot I guess :rolleyes:

[OverFunk]

This episode felt a little better for Wirhelmina's presence and Chigusa's appearance. Other than that, it's like it will end in Nice Boat for Yuji :p. I have personally not much to add in this thread, most has already been said.

(JC Staff, don't make this a Zero no Tsukaima II or Honey & Clover II. There's still plenty of space).

No matter what happens, I really don't want to see a Yoshida Yuji relationship flourish. Doomed love affairs are far too cheesy. IMO, Ike needs to get off his ass, STOP giving relationship advice that is contrary to his goal, and make his move on Yoshida IMMEDIATELY. I find it ridiculous that he is spending his time trying to patch things up between Yoshida and Yuuji, when it is his most opportune of times. May plot be sacrificed in the name of plot I guess :rolleyes:
It should happen eventually, although this pace is not favorable. (Lol Foreshadowing OP).

[grey_moon]

No matter what happens, I really don't want to see a Yoshida Yuji relationship flourish. Doomed love affairs are far too cheesy. IMO, Ike needs to get off his ass, STOP giving relationship advice that is contrary to his goal, and make his move on Yoshida IMMEDIATELY. I find it ridiculous that he is spending his time trying to patch things up between Yoshida and Yuuji, when it is his most opportune of times. May plot be sacrificed in the name of plot I guess :rolleyes:

Hell yeah! Come on Ike I've been waiting for him to do something too! I hope he isn't going to be one of those "as long as she is happy" guys. Just by the Darwin theory they should have died out from not being able to reproduce.

[holyman282]

No matter what happens, I really don't want to see a Yoshida Yuji relationship flourish. Doomed love affairs are far too cheesy. IMO, Ike needs to get off his ass, STOP giving relationship advice that is contrary to his goal, and make his move on Yoshida IMMEDIATELY. I find it ridiculous that he is spending his time trying to patch things up between Yoshida and Yuuji, when it is his most opportune of times. May plot be sacrificed in the name of plot I guess :rolleyes:

Well there is the whole thing of Yuji being practically immortal, while Yoshida is mortal... That concept alone means that Yoshida basically has no chance from the beginning, which is quite annoying as they basically added a character that everyone knew had no chance of winning which also detracts from the enjoyment of the Shana/Yoshida rivalry.

[minhtam1638]

Okay, after finally watching Zero no Tsukaima, both seasons, I have to say that I do not understand why you guys are comparing this to ZnT 2. Sure, they butchered the ending, but I found that season to be much more enjoyable than the first season. Of course, I still have my complaints, such as the rushed story, but that's it. What was evident in the first place? What is there to compare? SnS 2 dragging things out to long? That's nothing compared to the quick speed of ZnT 2.

So, I'll say this. Tell me what's wrong with this as compared to ZnT 2, now that I have fully watched this series.

[Grimkill7]

Well there is the whole thing of Yuji being practically immortal, while Yoshida is mortal... That concept alone means that Yoshida basically has no chance from the beginning, which is quite annoying as they basically added a character that everyone knew had no chance of winning which also detracts from the enjoyment of the Shana/Yoshida rivalry.

Very true. Luckily they added another character to remedy this noxious disease of a love triangle, though from the looks of the OP he won't be making his move for a very long while :sad:

[Marbles]

Wilhelmina was definitely the best part of this episode for me, she was so cute. ^^

[Eisdrache]

As I have to be consequent:
*punches SeedFreedom with a baseball bat in the face*

Ok I feel better now.

OnTopic: Its too bad Yoshida is already on the loosing side by the fact that she is mortal. I wonder if Yuji will stay in teenager size forever? If not that might give Yoshida more chances as I cant see Yuji favorizing loli Shana over adult Yoshida in 15 years ...

[Sinestra]

Well there is the whole thing of Yuji being practically immortal, while Yoshida is mortal... That concept alone means that Yoshida basically has no chance from the beginning, which is quite annoying as they basically added a character that everyone knew had no chance of winning which also detracts from the enjoyment of the Shana/Yoshida rivalry.

Thats an interesting point but i still dont want to see Yoshida get hurt, but it almost seems like she is fighting a losing battle (well her and Shana are both at the moment) with Yuji's new and growing powers i wonder would it be possible for him to create a new existence for him self. Kind of like how Shana barged into random girl A fromthe first season. From what i can tell there is not very much you cant do with the power of existence it just depends on how much you have at your disposal. Yuji has a shit load because of mystes abilities and the events at the end of season 1.

As for Ike dear god man i am going to be on Social sercurity by time this guy makes his move. Even if i dont want to see a IkexYoshida paring there is just no telling whats going to happen. On another note never let Wilhelmina do the cooking at your house.:D

[grey_moon]

Thats an interesting point but i still dont want to see Yoshida get hurt, but it almost seems like she is fighting a losing battle (well her and Shana are both at the moment) with Yuji's new and growing powers i wonder would it be possible for him to create a new existence for him self. Kind of like how Shana barged into random girl A fromthe first season. From what i can tell there is not very much you cant do with the power of existence it just depends on how much you have at your disposal. Yuji has a shit load because of mystes abilities and the events at the end of season 1.


I wonder if Yuji has the existence of a Crimson Lord, if he powered up/learnt enough, could he bond with a normal human the way Alastor bonded with Shana. Would piss Shana off to no end :D

[SeedFreedom]

As I have to be consequent:
*punches SeedFreedom with a baseball bat in the face*

Ok I feel better now.

uhhh I dont get it...

[GoldAlchemist]

Another 7/10 to me.

The storyline is progressing too slowly. My only wish is for the animators to speed things up. For like three episodes, the story seems to be going nowhere, i mean anime does have filler episodes, but not this early and not three in a row. This three episodes can be compressed into one or perhaps one and a half.

However, i do enjoy every moment i see Hecate. Her little actions and most of all the one and only Noto Mami's voice.

[Darknemo2000]

minhtam2448, I would like to explain why anyone would actually compare Shana with Zero No Tsukaima.

You see in terms of anime they differ drastically, though in terms of novels they are very similar. Since Zero No tsukaima novels are mostly quite serious novels having action or even gore in it (cut-off hands and so on). Except of volumes 1 and 12 (that were mostly fanservice) and comedy,Zero No tsukaima is pretty serious series, though still have lighter touch to it than Shana.

The problem lies that zero No Tsukama anime differs drastically from the novels, as it mostly ignores all serious parts and action, for the sake of boob-jokes and comedy in general. Thus anime Zero No Tsukaima and Shakugan no Shana differs too, yet in terms of novels they are similar.

Other thing that makes them similar is the similarities between female Heroines Shana and Louise,in a sense that both are tsundere type characters, and look very underage.

What is more both anime are done by the same studio (but by different teams) and has the same voice actors for main roles.

Thats why the comparison between Zero No Tsukaima and Shakugan No Shana Happens and probably will happen in the future.

Even Fumina's arc has similarities between Agnes arc from ZnT, as both are considered to be filler arcs and has some mistakes in pacing (take too long). In ZnT Agnes arc was even more painful since it wasted half of the season telling the story of a side-character that no one even cares all that much, leaving the main plot rushed and silly. Fumina's arc at least have all main characters involved even if there is no real progress so far.

[Master Chibi]

yep, you've got it exactly.

I have no idea why any of this should be surprising to anyone after an entire season has already been aired. If anyone is expecting this to somehow be way above how s1 was, I suggest you lower your expectations here and now. :uhoh:

Oh I'm very aware of that.

Which is why complaining about it is actually alot more fun then it should be.

Hell, it practically becomes a hobby at this point.

:p

[rozenfreak123]

It would seem that Margery will become USEFUL in the next episode but we'll see if that will happen or not and will Shana and Kazumi stop sulking because it's so unattractive.

[grey_moon]

It would seem that Margery will become USEFUL in the next episode but we'll see if that will happen or not and will Shana and Kazumi stop sulking because it's so unattractive.

Margery has always been useful, she single handedly keeps several breweries opened.

[FlareKnight]

As I have to be consequent:
*punches SeedFreedom with a baseball bat in the face*

Ok I feel better now.

OnTopic: Its too bad Yoshida is already on the loosing side by the fact that she is mortal. I wonder if Yuji will stay in teenager size forever? If not that might give Yoshida more chances as I cant see Yuji favorizing loli Shana over adult Yoshida in 15 years ...
Isn't it a bit odd to punch someone in the face with a bat? I mean sure you can swing it and just smack them. But punching seems a bit misplaced since you'd have to grabt the head of the bat and just throw a punch. But attack in any way you wish I guess. :heh:

True enough that Ike needs to get a move on. Sure he gave some advice but it's not going to help much unless he gives a detailed essay on the subject for Yuuji. Besides with Yoshida being distanced from Yuji he should at least do something. But from the OP we may have to wait quite a while.

Will be nice if Margery does more than lay around and assist the breweries. We need something major to happen to get her on the move. Seems though she will get involved in this geometric love situation.

[Master Chibi]

Margery has always been useful, she single handedly keeps several breweries opened.

She also helps the viewer remind that female characters in this show can actually have a set of breasts.

:eyespin:

[RiXeD]

She also helps the viewer remind that female characters in this show can actually have a set of breasts.

:eyespin:

Jesus Christ! It`s a Yoshida! Get in between the boobs!

[SeedFreedom]

OK, checked previous post and now i understand. Even if you say SnS isnt all about action we aren't getting any! i like char development, but not when it doesn't go anywhere. Shana still isn't being honest about her feelings, and neither is Yoshida or Ike. and the situation hasn't changed for 4 eps. if they actually accomplished anything in those eps that would be great but its starting to feel like i could skip those eps, jump back to the series 10 eps later and not miss a beat. its getting really stupid.

[Grimkill7]

This arc has been a rough ride, but with Wilhelmina's help, I just may make it through. My love for this character grows with every one of her appearances.

[Aquifina]

Actually, I think the frustrations over the fact that everyone's acting dense in ep. 4/5 obscures the sort-of mutual understanding Shana/Yoshida had in ep. 2/3. Their agreement to both bring bentos doesn't really "resolve" the triangle, but it led to an interesting mutual understanding between the two, which I think started at the end of season 1 where Yoshida swallowed her pride and asked Shana to go save Yuuji. Shana then reciprocated in a sense by mentioning Yoshida's request to Yuuji when they were reunited, although she for once was honest and said she wanted to save him "the most."

This is a lot better than Shana's original attitude of unremitting hostility toward Yoshida. They're clearly competitors, but the scene by Yuuji's bedside in the infirmary where they decided to compromise on the bento issue was actually nicely done in my view. Shana acknowledged at least tacitly that until she's honest with Yuuji, she'll have to tolerate Yoshida's attentions (and that Yoshida will be a part of Yuuji's life, as long as he stays in the city), while Yoshida at least tacitly knows that she can hardly get rid of Shana's presence for obvious reasons. Furthermore, in my view, Yuuji is unconsciously waiting for Shana to get her act together and say *something*, and until that happens, Yuuji won't be able to choose properly between the two. Hence his unwillingness to answer Yoshida properly, because I think Yuuji does genuinely care about Yoshida, but he cares about Shana more--unfortunately, right now, in his conscious mind, he thinks it impossible Shana will reciprocate. So he's in effect stuck--if he was wiser, he would resolve things by going to Shana directly, but I'll cut him some slack for being 15.

I should also point out that the writers have consistently portrayed the male characters to be oblivious to female interest with regards to themselves, but more perceptive in relation to other people. While Ike always knew about Yoshida's affections for Yuuji, it was Yuuji who had to tell him about his own feelings for Yoshida. And we all know about Yuuji's seeming thickheadedness with regards to to himself. Still, this doesn't excuse in my view how flat-out dumb Yuuji was made in ep. 5, unless Konoe is somehow screwing with his head unconsciously (a distinct possibility in my view).

Anyhow, the Shana/Yoshida interactions worked well for me in ep. 1-3, and up to ep. 4 I was fine with everything, although 4 was already a stretch. But the jealousy thing is going one ep. too far, assuming they finally settle things in 6. Furthermore, I don't know why the writers are making such a big deal about how Shana/Yoshida are feeling "new" emotions--they were previously jealous of each other, and both worked through that--so I find it odd that they're so dysfunctional in reaction to Konoe. The Shana/Yoshida bonding in ep. 5 was consistent with their new mutual understanding, but it wasn't consistent with the emotional question of dealing with jealousy, especially since Konoe is such a feeble player for Yuuji's attentions compared to the two of them.

Anyhow, the series started out great, and in my view, it's just going through a rough patch. I think things will be sorted out soon enough, and this will just be a normal blip of substandard content in a 24 ep. or so season. At least, I hope so. I still have high hopes for the season, and I think the early eps. give me more reason to think that things will work out well, as opposed to not. And even 5, which for me was a wreck in terms of emotional consistency for the love "square" still had its moments with Wilhelmina, Chigusa, and Shana.

[SeedFreedom]

Anyhow, the Shana/Yoshida interactions worked well for me in ep. 1-3, and up to ep. 4 I was fine with everything, although 4 was already a stretch. But the jealousy thing is going one ep. too far, assuming they finally settle things in 6.

wow, thats exactly what the message i wanted to get out. Thanks

[lua thien]

Well, there's a calm before the storm in terms of Guze action. For now, the emotional storm is raging in its place.

I would feel very sorry for Yuji if Konoe accidentally causes him to bomb a test in class due to her insecure behavior. Episode Six mentions of a study group of sorts.
(Study Konoe! I'm sure you know that you can't ask for help on a test!)

By the way, I wonder why there's only mention of Kings of the Guze. Aren't there any Queens at all? It's a small question of curiosity as I remember in Season 1 that Wilhelmina referring to Tiamat as a King of the Guze, though Tiamat is female.

There's also a question as to what did Shana and Yuji do with all of Friagne's Hougu collection afer they killed him into oblivion.

[KaneDragon]

There's also a question as to what did Shana and Yuji do with all of Friagne's Hougu collection afer they killed him into oblivion.

I'm sure they all disappeared when his hammerspace went kaputt, and got redistributed among torches like usual.

[Kaioshin Sama]

This was a throwaway episode if ever I saw one. Where do I even start

First, it felt disjointed with no real sense of what was meant to be accomplished by it. One second it's about Wilhemina trying to cook a meal, then it's Shana in bathtub (the highlight of the episode sadly), then they're at school. All the while moving at a snails pace. And I don't really have an issue with slow episodes normally, but that's because most of the time they do ultimately accomplish something. Here, nothing.

Secondly, It's been 3 episodes of pretty much the same Konoe-centric plotlining, and it's really wearing thin. You've got to love how Yuji completely stops giving a damn about both Shana and Yoshida and just chases Konoe's tail around. I was wrong about this turning into some sort of love Triforce, it's actually regressed instead. It went from a Love Triangle with Shana, Yuji and Saji, to a single relationship between Yuji and Konoe. The ending part where Yuji says he'll talk to Shana and Ike the next day gives me some hope he'll wake up, because up till now the show might as well be called Master Throne No Hecate.

Thirdly, what in gods name happened to the character animation an consistancy this episode. The whole thing was chock with lazy animation practices, and half the time the characters faces didn't align properly to the standards established mere scenes ago, let alone those in the previous episode, or first series. And for crying out loud there's even a Cabbage in the episode. Is this honestly some kind of joke.

As always, there's still the possibility that next episode the series will truly get underway, but if it doesn't, that will quite possibly be the quarterway point for the series, with much of it gone to waste. That will really come back to haunt the series if episode 6 isn't solid. This is do or die time now. They've really done enough with establishing Konoe as the "popular one" and now it's time for something to come of it.

I gave it a 4, because while by all rights it deserves a 3, I did like that Shana and Yoshida seem to be growing closer in their mutual plight of being ignored, and the scene with them standing together sharing a quiet understanding was well done. Again though I sure do hope something comes of this.

[Kiyoru]

Um, actually, Yuji and Fumina kicked it off a day before the teacher asked him to look after her.

Uh, "kicked it off"? What do you mean by that?

[FlareKnight]

Uh, "kicked it off"? What do you mean by that?
Just a saying for them already having a connection before the teacher asked him. I think a more common way of saying it is that they 'hit it off'. There was something already going on before the teacher asked him to babysit Konoe.

[Kiyoru]

Just a saying for them already having a connection before the teacher asked him. I think a more common way of saying it is that they 'hit it off'. There was something already going on before the teacher asked him to babysit Konoe.

Oh yeah, I know.. but they're not gettin' it on or anything. They were only doing that to find out if she was Hecate, right?

[KaneDragon]

Oh yeah, I know.. but they're not gettin' it on or anything. They were only doing that to find out if she was Hecate, right?

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9197/misfiledy5.jpg (http://www.misfile.com/?page=828)

[Kiyoru]

Uh.. exactly? They're only friends and Shana should understand that.

[ashlay]

Uh.. exactly? They're only friends and Shana should understand that.
she should...but can anyone say honestly they thought she would?

[minhtam1638]

I think a more common way of saying it is that they 'hit it off'.

Urusai, urusai, urusai! I'm bad with catch phrases!:upset::(:upset::(

[lua thien]

Shana may be the most formidable Flame Haze but when it comes to opening feelings, she hesitates and it's proven very counterproductive now that Konoe is steps ahead of both her and Yoshida.

Margery might be helpful in teaching those two about loss and the obstacles faced in a love life. After all, she did tell Ogata about the importance of action in OVA from season 1.

[FlareKnight]

Urusai, urusai, urusai! I'm bad with catch phrases!:upset::(:upset::(
My apologies :heh:.

If anything we can count on Margery to get things rolling. She isn't one to hold back concerning Shana so just get it out there. If it will get her out of the depressive state , staring out the window while they think about how jealously isn't a fun feeling.

[DeotoxSlayer]

Urusai, urusai, urusai! I'm bad with catch phrases!:upset::(:upset::(

Wouldn't it technically just be a phrase not a Catch phrase......:heh:

[Grimkill7]

The ending part where Yuji says he'll talk to Shana and Ike the next day gives me some hope he'll wake up, because up till now the show might as well be called Master Throne No Hecate.
Am I the only one who would totally watch that? Hell I might even give it priority over SnS :heh:

[teachopvutru]

Am I the only one who would totally watch that? Hell I might even give it priority over SnS :heh:

You're probably not the only one but SnS still first for me :p

[DeotoxSlayer]

Am I the only one who would totally watch that? Hell I might even give it priority over SnS :heh:

I would watch it as long as Yuji, ans Shana have some sort of appearence in it, though the name of the show would need some work, and they'd need a good plot, though one plot point could be a Love Triangle with Hecate, Yuji, and Senpen =P

[Malintex_Terek]

Eh, Yuji was never really that sharp to begin with though. He's always been one of those main characters that struggle and struggle and FINALLY comes up with the right path and you just want to smack him thinking "wtf...it took him that long to come up with THAT?"


He's normal, at least "normal" as far as male protagonists go. Well meaning, not all that bright, persistant and loyal. Traits common to many in Yuuji's shoes.

To his benefit, he's getting smarter as he gets stonger. Might not be the greatest in grades yet, but he's sharp enough to deduce the actions of opponents and make quick, sound decisions in combat.

Considering he only found out he was dead a while ago, he's made quite a number if in-roads in a very short time.

[grey_moon]

To his benefit, he's getting smarter as he gets stonger. Might not be the greatest in grades yet, but he's sharp enough to deduce the actions of opponents and make quick, sound decisions in combat.


Well I've just spent the last 3 episodes complaining how stupid he has become :heh:

If this show was renamed to Master Throne Konoe and we forgot about SnS 1, what roles would you give the girls? I would put Shana as the jealous little sister, Yoshida as the in love class mate who has always been too shy and Konoe as the mysterious transfer student who happens to be a childhood friend who Yuji has forgotten about because of some traumatic experience.

[Grimkill7]

Well I've just spent the last 3 episodes complaining how stupid he has become :heh:

If this show was renamed to Master Throne Konoe and we forgot about SnS 1, what roles would you give the girls? I would put Shana as the jealous little sister, Yoshida as the in love class mate who has always been too shy and Konoe as the mysterious transfer student who happens to be a childhood friend who Yuji has forgotten about because of some traumatic experience.

I would put Wilhelmina as the hot teacher who acts inappropriately with her students (particularly Yuji).

[lua thien]

I would put Wilhelmina as the hot teacher who acts inappropriately with her students (particularly Yuji).

What do you mean by that? Seems she'll cease another initiative to kill him when Pheles shows up.

[ashlay]

What do you mean by that? Seems she'll cease another initiative to kill him when Pheles shows up.
Seems to me the anime decided to have Wilhelmina trying to kill Yuji last season and last season alone.

while it's not impossible, and I certainly would like to see Yuji being useful for once, I somewhat doubt its going to come up again.

[Devard]

Seems she'll cease another initiative to kill him when Pheles shows up.
You probably want to use spoiler tags around that line. People that are only following the anime knows very little, if anything, about Pheles.

[I once had wings]

hecate is the hottest.. stick with herrr lol