Avenger Discussion

[Ori]

I have only seen one episode of this anime. So far it looks decent with nice music and pretty character designs... sort of reminds me of .Hack//sign for some odd reasons... but is it good?

What is its plot?

[freedoom]

I have only seen one episode of this anime. So far it looks decent with nice music and pretty character designs... sort of reminds me of .Hack//sign for some odd reasons... but is it good?

What is its plot?

I watched the first episode and wasnt very intrigued by it so i havent continued to watch. The reason it reminds you of .hack//sign is because they were both done by Bee Train. Bee Train is also responsable for noir if i'm not mistaken.

[Anlushac11]

Avenger is another of my favorite 3 animes currently. Actually 4 if you count Fumoffu.

Avenger has the same feel and I think the music style is very similar to .Hack//Sign

I like the show alot so far. There is a backstory that is hinted at and is slowly being unveiled. I also like the characters

It had me hooked wityhin the first two episodes.

[1stStrike]

I've watched all the episodes so far and I've found it very much worth watching. I'm probally one of the few people that enjoys the opening and ending songs. The ending song is my favorite :P

[marin]

If you like BeeTrain's previous works (.hack//sign, Noir) then you'll like Avenger. Or at least find it tolerable and intriguing so far.

If you didn't like BeeTrain's previous works, you won't be able to stand Avenger.

That simple.

[brightman]

If you like BeeTrain's previous works (.hack//sign, Noir) then you'll like Avenger. Or at least find it tolerable and intriguing so far.

If you didn't like BeeTrain's previous works, you won't be able to stand Avenger.

That simple.

lol... Agreed... Avenger is like Noir and .hack//SIGN to the nth degree... Those two happen to be two f my favorites, so I enjoy this one so far... Though I guess if someone who hates either of those anime watches this it'll be utterly confusing and boring.

[NenMaster]

i havent been that much interested in this, its a bit boring but it will probally pic up.

[Ori]

I am pretty sure if I can actually stand through 25 episodes of Ultra Maniac I can stand through Avenger.

I love the moon imagery in the series so far...

And I did love .hack//sign, Noir was okay too but I thought there were too much clock flashbacks and stuff to be really interesting. I guess I will like Avenger then. ^_^

[Kenji Ikari]

Avenger is on the top of the list of anime I'm currently keeping up with. Of course, Kimi Nozomu Eien being number two.

[Lord Raiden]

Short answer: Yes. IT's good.
Long answer: The theme is interesting, and although some parts don't make much sence, overall I like the anime and would consider it one of my top 5 anime. I'm sure that the farther we go into the series the more things will make sence, but right now I really like it.

[Aquillion]

I have only seen one episode of this anime. So far it looks decent with nice music and pretty character designs... sort of reminds me of .Hack//sign for some odd reasons... but is it good?

What is its plot?It depends. It's a lot like the cheesy sci-fi adventure novels of yesteryear -- ruined-looking, dirty cities under huge domes, light speculation on robots and how people react to them, heroes that can fight entire armies of incompetant evil minions and have very little character otherwise, etc, etc, etc. If the idea of a Martian Overlord who wears battle armor everwhere, honorable combat tournaments in futuristic ruined cities and creepy robot-children appeals to you, then you'll probably like it.

In any case the music is good, but you probably know that already.

[monir]

So how would you recommend to someone who has not watched Hack/sign or noir and has yet to start on avenger?:D

[Xiandu]

I like the series because it has that doomed feeling to it. You know that this type of show has been done before but yet you still are intrigued to keep watching. The main character is your typical strong as hell but equally as silent, but with a death wish as she has already stated several times. What most attracts me though is the relationship to her father of sorts, not sure if he is or not even though they say so, but I also like anime that always has that impending doom feel to it.

[lamort_noir]

lol... Agreed... Avenger is like Noir and .hack//SIGN to the nth degree... Those two happen to be two f my favorites, so I enjoy this one so far... Though I guess if someone who hates either of those anime watches this it'll be utterly confusing and boring.
YOUR JOKING RIGHT?! You mean there are actually people that dislike Noir and/ or .hack//sign thats ridiculous and if your one of those who dont like Noir because you dont think assassins have emotions then i think ur stupid and have to look at it this way LOOK THROUGH THERE EYES THERE LIES THE STORY !!! oh and btw I LOVE KIRIKA :D and now that you all said that bee train did it I am so going to watch this anime im sure it rocks based on what you said

[dragonstar13]

Well I find the series interesting for the most part, but I thought episode 6 was pretty boring to watch. Too many "quiet" moments where the character says nothing for 5 minutes. I still like the series though. The mystery around the characters makes me curious enough to find out more about them. Lyate and Nei mostly. It's a bit of a shame this series is only 13 episodes.
I haven't seen Noir, but I loved .Hack//Sign. Although, there are more then plenty of people who hate .Hack//Sign, because the characters talked too much apparently.

[Anlushac11]

I've watched all the episodes so far and I've found it very much worth watching. I'm probally one of the few people that enjoys the opening and ending songs. The ending song is my favorite :P


I hear ya, I love the OP and to a lesser extent the ED

[Tea Pad]

I'm still undecided. While some of the elements are entertaining and/or intriguing, the first six episodes have been a bit repetitive. There's been very little in the way of plot or character development thus far. I plan to continue watching, though, especially if there are only 13 episodes.

Speaking of which, what's your source on that number? There's no indication of the length of the series anywhere I've seen.

[Relentless]

So how would you recommend to someone who has not watched Hack/sign or noir and has yet to start on avenger?:D

Well, I couldn't stand .hack//sign and got bored with Noir, yet I liked Avenger so far, am I weird or what? :confused:

As it was said, if you like science-fiction stories of the old "planetary romance" type (Burroughs' John Carter of Mars and Leigh Brackett's "Sword of Rhiannon" come to mind), you will like it. At least, the main character is more relate-able than those from .hack//sign and Noir. And the widescreen format is very nice.

[Keitaro]

I like avenger, its one of those series which you can love or hate. To me its very interesting ie Layla Ashley and her bio mechanical doll. Oh yeah the wide screen format really rocks.

[PocariSweat]

You know, after seeing several people trash this show in other threads I started watching not expecting much, but was really, really surprised.

First the animation itself is *superb* - very well drawn with a fluidity you seldom see outside of an OAV or movie. There's a minimum of completely static scenes and they take the time to animate stuff like hair and clothes blowing in the wind. The music is also very atmospheric and quite engrossing - it really helps set the feel of the show.

So far I love the story too - it's kind of a mixture of "Dune" and Spielberg's "A.I." (also has a Clint Eastwood "Man with no Name" Spaghetti Westren feel to it sometimes too).
Yes, it's not always action packed (though there is action), and the plot isn't painted out with preschool simplicity. I know some people don't seem happy unless every second is packed with blood, explosions, and/or camel-toes; but I kind of like stories that take time to develop a sense of atmosphere and mystery. Granted, I've seen shows wind up being nothing but atmosphere - full of suggested mysteries the writers never bother to wrap a plot around, but it's too soon to say Avenger is going that direction.

[LiQuid|J]

I'm one who doesn't like this show. I haven't seen much Hack or Noir so I can't compare them, but I watched 3 or 4 episodes of Avenger and decided I didn't need to keep watching. The animation was well enough. I didn't like any of the characters though. And the music was so obtrusive. The OP and ED grated on my nerves as well. I can handle slow moving shows, but I expect at least SOME semblance of plot in the first few episodes. There was nothing intriguing enough to keep me hooked. I'm watching way too many shows as it is, but if I were REALLY bored, I would probably check out more. Doubt that will happen though.

[zzzz]

well, i don't enjoy watching avenger too. the op/ed was alright to me, but the music they used in the anime sounds crap and out of place.

animation was alright but the main character hardly speaks.(except for " i wanna kill u" a few times)

[Tea Pad]

well, i don't enjoy watching avenger too. the op/ed was alright to me, but the music they used in the anime sounds crap and out of place.

animation was alright but the main character hardly speaks.(except for " i wanna kill u" a few times)

I believe that's, "Kill me, if you can," mate ;)

And I agree that some of the music can be "obstrusive" (as someone mentioned previously). That's the perfect word for it. But I like some of the bits with the organ/harpsichord; they give Volk that cheesy - but ultimately fun - supervillain air. The OP and ED are good, too.

Yep.

[IwakuraLain]

(I new to this forum, so bear with me :) )

I really like Avenger to far, it kind of reminds me of Noir (a series I really liked); both in pacing and in the making (animation and music). I would be really surprised if this series has only 13 episodes, i would guess at 22-26 episodes, considering the story for far ...

[Sklappu]

I couldnt find any other threads on this so I'm gonna take a chance and (god forbid) make one.

Anyone else following this series? I really love the overall visual style of it, and post-apocalyptic never goes wrong. Layla and Nei are both also interesting characters and the mystery of their relationship and background is my main driving force in watching this series.

However, ep10 had me very confused. The part of which Cross meets Layla and we are presented with her memories from earlier where he raised her and such, and she calls him Volk. He corrects her and says his name is Cross. When the flashback sequence is over, she calls him Cross and he corrects her saying his name is Volk (Was this even what happened? I got so confused I maybe even remember it wrong).
Nei also said he was her father, I'm not sure if this was a metaphorical thing or if he actually is Volk and her father.

It should also be mentioned that Cross' (Volk's?) death scene was incredibly well made and gave me chills all over. The timing with the music and overall composition of it was just gorgeous.

[GATX207_Blitz]

hmm.... didn't know anyone followed this series or that they wanted to voice their opinions about it.

Anyways... no Cross is not in anyway Volk. In fact if you remember an earlier episode there was 3 of the original dozen eating dinner, I guess, together. You know Ares, that bald original dozen guy, who was trying to grow wheat on the martian soil?? He was also arguing with Volk about certain matters about going outside ogf the dome cities and crap?

Well towards the end of the episode Ares gave a picture to Westa and crossed out his picture and said, "I am no longer an Original Dozen, or named Ares..." and Westa said, "a cross"

Well Ares, or cross, was the same man who found his way to Layla in episode 10 and I am pretty sure that Ares can be indeed Layla's "father" (biological or not).

The episode I am talkig aout is Pilgrim or episode 8. Hope you find this information helpful :)

[Thany]

Well there's already a thread about Avenger... :)
You should perhaps reply to this post instead of creating a new one? :p

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=574

[Keitaro]

I think he right to make an new thread pertaining to ep10 the other thread was asking whether Avenger was any good. I'm really glad their are some ppl still out there following this series.

I couldnt find any other threads on this so I'm gonna take a chance and (god forbid) make one.

Anyone else following this series? I really love the overall visual style of it, and post-apocalyptic never goes wrong. Layla and Nei are both also interesting characters and the mystery of their relationship and background is my main driving force in watching this series.

However, ep10 had me very confused. The part of which Cross meets Layla and we are presented with her memories from earlier where he raised her and such, and she calls him Volk. He corrects her and says his name is Cross. When the flashback sequence is over, she calls him Cross and he corrects her saying his name is Volk (Was this even what happened? I got so confused I maybe even remember it wrong).
Nei also said he was her father, I'm not sure if this was a metaphorical thing or if he actually is Volk and her father.

It should also be mentioned that Cross' (Volk's?) death scene was incredibly well made and gave me chills all over. The timing with the music and overall composition of it was just gorgeous.


Since this is an ep10 discussion I see no reason to put it in spoiler tags

Cross/Ares is not Layla's Biological father, it was explained in ep 10 that Cross was the one who sabatoges Layla's ship and caused it to blow up because Volk holded a grudge on anyone outside of Mars. Mars was abandon and he hated anyone not from Mars.

When Cross/Ares was making his getaway he found Layla greatly injured and decided to save her and escaped in a pod to Mars. He then trained her to learn how to survive, but all she wanted was revenge for the killings of her mom & Dad and her friends and everyone else that were on the ship. Since the man Volk appeared on all of the video screens on her ship she thinks he is responsible for everything.

The part where you were being confused was actually how it went. The reason why Cross/Ares came back to see Layla was to end it. In order make her stop seeking revenge on Volk he admited that he was the one directly responsible for it. So thats why he called himself Volk but Layla still calls him Cross since he was like an father to her she couldn't believe he was involved.

[Sklappu]

Thanks Keitarou, that made a lot of sense and certainly cleared it all up for me. I'm surprised I didnt catch all of that myself :)

I guess I could have posted this as a reply to the thread mentioned, but as someone said I didnt really feel it was directly related. And I was also a little uncertain about putting the spoiler tag in but figured I'd better be on the safe side ;)


Now with all this new content that's made clear for me I'm even more looking forward to the next ep.

[Sklappu]

Sorry to double-post, but are anyone else having problems with downloading Avenger 11?
I started my BT download last night, and when I got up today it still hadnt started (problems connecting to tracker). By looking at the seeding/leeching numbers for the torrent, I can tell it's not looking right. Are there any mirrors anywhere?

[CaLBeaR]

hmm, this is coming to end as well. is this anime based on a game or manga? they didn't really explain a lot of issues in the anime.

[ArcHawk]

Hmmm...I'm one of the few people who have been enjoying this series as well. Sure, its kinda slow, but the characters and plot are quite intruiging. And Layla is a kick ass fighter. I was getting quite concerned that she would *never* show any emotion whatsoever...her whole attitude (aside from with Nei) was starting to grate at me like fingernails on a chalkboard. But as it would happen, she's not quite emotionless afterall. Heck, she's actually pretty cute when she manages a weak smile.

Production values are very high imo...its a great series to look at. As someone mentioned though, there are too many extended, long dramatic pauses in many of the episodes. Still, I'd recommend it.

[ixspa]

Just because you can't figure what the series is about in the 1st or 2nd episode or because you don't see blood spilling every 2 seconds does NOT make it something unwatchable which is actually refreshing with this underapreciated gem called "avenger". Don't get me wrong since I also enjoy ecchi shows and ultraviolence anime shows but the ones that take time to unravel and require "paying attention to detail" are worth watching as well ! Keep that in mind whenever you watch this show or any other in general for that matter and as you may have guessed it YES! I'm another faithful layla ashley fan ;)

[stormy001_M1A2]

I like the music

[Keitaro]

alright more Avenger fans posting. :)

[GATX207_Blitz]

hey just finished episode 12 and well this show is almost over I can't believe it one more episode...well the preview is what I find interesting mostly, but there was that thing with nei's eyes and volk's strength, but yea. Well I thought this show was going to be a long one, but then I checked the episode amount and it said 13 unlike the .hack series has been.

[IPv6]

avenger is boring as hell but since I have been following it from the beginning, I am going to stick with it.

And yes, I feel asleep watching hack sign :) .

[Prince of Chronics]

avenger is at times boring... but imo... it's still a good show to watch... the art and music is what attracts me the most...

[El Diablo]

I watched the first 4 episodes, started downloading five but decided to cancel it. I got bored of .hack//sign at ep 16, and couldn't finish it, i was barely capable of getting through ep 4, i was so bored. The characters also annoyed the hell out of me, as did the opening. IMO its the worst opening of any anime i've ever watched.

[Anlushac11]

avenger is boring as hell but since I have been following it from the beginning, I am going to stick with it.

And yes, I feel asleep watching hack sign :) .

I like .Hack//Sign but I feel it would have been better as a 13 part series or AS should have shown it on weeknights. It moves too slow to be seen once a week. At least when i had the fansubs I could sit and watch the whole thing. But rewatching it on Adult Swim was aggravatingly slow.

Avenger I like because as the series moves on you start seeing why Layla acts like she does and you start seeing more of her personality. SHe was hard to figure out at first but by the end of the series I like her.

And Speedy I thought was unnecessary at first but now I understand his purpose and he is necessary.

And I like how the story unfolds a little each week so by the end you know whats going on.

[Zippy-DSM]

what are the names of the opening and ending songs?
and mabye that song that pops in now and then thru some of the eps....mmm and did anyone sub the songs that are init not the opening/ending

[IPv6]

I like .Hack//Sign but I feel it would have been better as a 13 part series or AS should have shown it on weeknights. It moves too slow to be seen once a week. At least when i had the fansubs I could sit and watch the whole thing. But rewatching it on Adult Swim was aggravatingly slow.

Avenger I like because as the series moves on you start seeing why Layla acts like she does and you start seeing more of her personality. SHe was hard to figure out at first but by the end of the series I like her.

And Speedy I thought was unnecessary at first but now I understand his purpose and he is necessary.

And I like how the story unfolds a little each week so by the end you know whats going on.
I agree that when they reveal more of layla's personality, it got a bit more interesting. Probably the only thing that makes me keep downloading this anime is NEI. I want to know about her, she goes from a supposively doll to human and her eyes and hair changes as well. It is now pink as it was blonde before.

[ArcHawk]

Something interesting I just realized...Avenger has many similarities to Iria.

Layla is like a more consistantly pissed off version of Iria. Similar hair colors and styles.

The hand-held combat weapons and style she uses is eerily similar to Gren's when he's fighting Zeiram.

The blonde haired fighter whom Layla beat and is still observing her from time to time appears almost exactly like Gren himself.

Volk is a big, practically unpenetrable opponent with raw power and thus when Layla fights him, I'm reminded of when Iria fights Zeiram.

Of course, there are so many anime out there that coincidences are bound to occur...but having just rewatched Iria...its kinda creepy how much of the character style the two shows share.

[Jump]

Way. Too. Many. Eyeshots. :frustrated:

I bet there is over 30 minutes worth of eyeshots in the 12 episodes so far.

[Pandora]

what are the names of the opening and ending songs?
and mabye that song that pops in now and then thru some of the eps....mmm and did anyone sub the songs that are init not the opening/ending

The OP song is "Gesshouku Grand Guignol". The ED song is "Mirai no Ivu (Eve)". I like "Jigoku no Kisetsu" myself.

[guynextdoor]

i read the first page and thought that i was the only one who didnt like avenger around here. thankfully im not, but i still dont like it, i dont know why :heh:

[wsheit]

some people just don't know good anime when they see it. People are complaining about the music? it's a little different but very beautiful- I listen to the OST all the time. The action choreography is incredible and the characters (atleast near the end of the series) are intriguing. I'll admit that the series took a while to take off, but it is otherwise a top notch series!

[stormy001_M1A2]

some people just don't know good anime when they see it. People are complaining about the music? it's a little different but very beautiful- I listen to the OST all the time. The action choreography is incredible and the characters (atleast near the end of the series) are intriguing. I'll admit that the series took a while to take off, but it is otherwise a top notch series!


Amen to that! :)

[brightman]

I don't know... People seem to be "bored" because of the directing techniques (like those eyeshots)... I however find it interesting. It's something that's not often done in anime after all.

That's why people are such hypocrites... They complain when an anime is not original enough but when the shows do something new and different (the unorthodox background music included) they just keep complaining. :nono:

[Ori]

Very true, the music is beautiful. It's sooo much like Noir music.

The eye shots are longer than needed at times, but hey it certainly gives the show a special tone and mood.

I can't wait to see the last episode. >< Why won't it come out?!

[linuxguru]

I can't wait to see the last episode. >< Why won't it come out?!
The fansubbers can't work on episodes that haven't been broadcast yet. It looks like episode 13 will shown this Thursday so the end is in sight. I'm waiting to see what happens to Nei.

[7thMethuselah]

I've seen a couple of episodes of avenger now and my first impression is this

Animation : beautiful sceneries and well drawn characters
Story : too early to tell, there isn't much going on so far, hoping it get's cleare up later on
Music : a real DISASTER : the music itself is not that bad (not great either) but it is completely out of place. Playing violins during battle scenes? For me the music in the anime really screws the atmophere created by the animation (that's why I watch avenger with sounds as low as possible, otherwise it gets annoying)
Characters : again a bit too early to tell (not seen many episodes yet) but so far it looks like there's more to the characters that that which is shown on the surface

So I will continue to watch hoping the story gets more clear (and the music gets less annoying), for now it looks like an average anime to me, not bad but not great either...

[Keitaro]

Ok WTF I thought Avenger was at least 24-26 episodes long why only 13, this was a big surprise for me. I'm really pissed. :frustrated: :frustrated: :frustrated:

As for the final episode, all I can say is WTF. She defeats Volk then just leaves everyone behind including her beloved Nei. I'm so f****** disappointed. Also what about the future of Mars, isn't the Red moon about to collide with it, what about that. So many loose ends here. Oh yeah Layla laughs for the first time, that was shocking. WTH was that about, lol maybe I should watch the whole episode again or maybe not. :(

[Ori]

We all know it is a 13 episode anime though...

As for what I think about the episode. I have to watch it to see.

[Keitaro]

We all know it is a 13 episode anime though...



Well actually I didn't know at all. Thats why it was such an huge shock for me.

[Mephisto03]

Yeah that ending sucked. I like the series but chalk another one up to bad writing or incomplete creative ideas. Ohh well, at least its over so I wouldn't have to be dragged around more of a crappy story, well ending.

[a_nevels666]

Well actually I didn't know at all. Thats why it was such an huge shock for me.

Well, when you like an anime it's a good idea to look up how many episodes there are going to be, to avoid being disapointed.
(Something you found out the hard way...)

[AnimeOni]

I quit watching it 15 min into it. It was that bad. For someone who watches almost everything... WTF is an understatement. No wonder SAi-Cg, etc took a long time to FS it. They probably could not watch it far enough to complete it. It was too painful.

[brightman]

Yeah what the heck is that? Does Nei being multigendered freak Layla so much that she laughed or something? I have no idea.... :heh:

EDIT: OK, watch the latter half of the episode again... I guess why Layla reacted like that was because of the revelation that all the problems that the people have were supposedly all her fault... (how did that happen though?) And I guess with Nei being the savior she didn't want to be there anymore or something... But still it's a mess (though I can't decide if we're supposed to figure out a meaning to this ending or if the ending is just BAD).

[Keitaro]

Well, when you like an anime it's a good idea to look up how many episodes there are going to be, to avoid being disapointed.
(Something you found out the hard way...)

I usually check animenfo.com for how many episodes a series im watching has but the # of episodes info wasn't available for this particular series.

[brightman]

I usually check animenfo.com for how many episodes a series im watching has but the # of episodes info wasn't available for this particular series.

It's been here: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2655 ever since I submitted it to that site in October...

[Keitaro]

It's been here: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2655 ever since I submitted it to that site in October...

Oh well, kind of too late now.

[Ori]

Did Layla just died at the end? With that special cross with her necklace on it?

[Breogan]

Nah, she just threw it away. If you notice, she's holding it in her hand in the previous scene.

[vio5555]

Nah, she just threw it away. If you notice, she's holding it in her hand in the previous scene.
At the very end ya, she just walks off having left the chain on the cross.

BTW, the ending really was horrible, so inconclusive.

[mirichan]

And is it just me, or not only did the ending sucked to high heaven, did not answer ANY questions and Layla also has the weirdest laugh you've ever heard? It sounded insane, to tell you the truth!

Oh well... that was quite a waste of my time, watching that show! I should have stuck to my first impression (and second and third) and flush that show after the first few episodes...

[SilverLeafTree]

Err... SPOILERS but that's already marked in the topic heading...


I liked that last episode personally on a technical basis except for on a few points... For some reason when Volg's headgear was cracked the depiction of his face was kind of inconsistent. Also, they sure did reuse the cells of Nei lying down and breathing a lot. Besides that, I can finally get a translation of those Avenger songs ^_^, I thought the music was well done as well as the fighting scene's action. Now onto the explanation...

Volg is the protector of Mars; yet the same time he is protecting Mars from disorder with his iron rule, he is unable to move forward and bring better days for the people of Mars. We can see this as Layla lays the first real blow to Volg's body, water begins springing out of the ground(water is necessary for life, the people on Mars have been doing very badly without water [e.g. the cultivation of plants would be near-impossible as seen by Cross' attempts]). The more Volg is beat, the more life-giving water comes out of the ground. Volg soon realizes that he is the cause of the misfortune of the people of Mars and jumps over the cliff into the water. Westa-sama seems to understand this as well as she says "I'm sure the planet will accept our [Volg's in particular] corpses in order to create a better world for the people of Mars."

It is also this water that washes away Volg's looming skyscraper down along with some broken dolls. Note how nothing else is really destroyed by the water except for Volg's city; the other city on the mesa as well as the battleground is untouched by these benevolent tides.

On a different, more scientific level, the last episode has meaning as well. We can infer that the water's spouting came from the red moon's gravitational pull upon Mars, causing the water to come out. The phrase "this wasn't how it was planned" implies that the people on Mars had some kind of plan to avoid the impending disaster from a possible collission. They also tried alter the moon's course by detonating bombs on it (they had to be very big since you could see them even from mars). Perhaps this was all in vain; maybe the red moon's original purpose was to pull water from the ground and its course would not be altered.

Layla Ashley's main motive was to protect Nei, not kill Volg or save Mars (When Volg asks her "why?" she can only respond with "Nei"). This is supported by the song played which implies Layla is like a mother. Her laughing bout near the end was in order to release all of her energy from finally completing her life's goal (she laughs strangely because she hasn't laughed for so many years).

Layla is really no kind of person to lead a people, which is why she consistently refuses to accept the position of mayor of a city(She lacks sympathy, not very talkative or social, quick to anger, not the kind of person one could imagine doing paperwork). These character traits would make it very hard for her to work in any kind of society; she was raised for one purpose only: to kill Volg. With no more true purpose (Volg is dead, Nei has finally matured and is also in good hands with Westa-sama and Speedy), she has to find a new purpose for living.

The last episode of Avenger IMO did a good job of concluding an excellent anime.

[Breogan]

Actually I thought the stuff in the moon's surface were cities, and Volk was going to throw the bombs at it despite being full of people, like he did with the spaceship that came from earth, where Layla lived.

I think the "This is not how it was planned" came from the sun showing up. From what I recall, it never showed up even once, as it was covered by the moon, but maybe the moon got attracted by Mars' gravity into an orbit, and that's why the sun could be seen.

[SilverLeafTree]

Actually I thought the stuff in the moon's surface were cities, and Volk was going to throw the bombs at it despite being full of people, like he did with the spaceship that came from earth, where Layla lived.

I think the "This is not how it was planned" came from the sun showing up. From what I recall, it never showed up even once, as it was covered by the moon, but maybe the moon got attracted by Mars' gravity into an orbit, and that's why the sun could be seen.

Good note on the sun appearing, but having actual people living on the red moon might be off a little, since the implications of that would be very deep and the anime didn't mention it at all? Please tell me if they did, but I think that all the lines on the planet are fractures on its tectonic plates with molten rock and lava causing all the light.

[FlyByNite]

Hey so was that the moon as in Lunar "Earth's Moon" or was it one of Mar's moons? Cuz if it was I never understood why they never called it Demos or Phobos since Mars has two moons you'd think they'd differentiate it with it.

But if it was a new moon, perhaps somehow our Moon launched towards Mars with the destruction of the Earth in an attempt to terraform Mars then it would make some sense of the show to me ;)

[Ori]

I don't mind the ending. I think I expected an ending like this.

A person like Layla will never be able to live happily ever after. She is too emotionless and lonely to ever live happily.

It's not just becasue of her past, it's her personality. She is just so distant and stuff she can't stand to live with a lot of people all the time. She can't live in the city for long.

Nei needs education, education that Layla cannot give her. She deserves an easier life, she can only get that in a city.

Layla just decided to go find the real meaning to her life, I think it is quite conclusive an ending.

[wsheit]

Hey, thanks SilverLeafTree! I just watched the final ep of Avenger but I was unclear on a few things. Your explanation was very helpful. Your analysis of the characters seems to be right on.

I still think the issue of whether the planets were going to collide was unresolved. It is hinted to in the last few eps and then we never know what the living characters do about it.

Everything else fits together quite nicely. I thoroughly enjoyed this anime- especially the last 3 episodes. It seems like 2/3 of the OST was written for the last 3 episodes.

[Ratix]

Ah heck. I've watched only until episode 6... Ah! Spoilers!
LOL. Anyway, I chose to see spoilers and don't mind spoilers.

BTW, your Spoilers is spelled wrongly.

[Keitaro]

BTW, your Spoilers is spelled wrongly.

Its fixed now :)

[LiQuid|J]

I'm glad I skipped this one and just waited for the spoiler info. I watched four episodes of this and nearly died of boredom. I would feel really shafted right now had I decided to keep up with this.

[SilverLeafTree]

wsheit: You're very welcome, I'm very glad that I could help you understand. I personally enjoyed this anime a lot (same Director/Music/Opening theme artist as Noir my favorite anime) and I hope that all of you who did not understand it the first time try to rewatch or rethink it through. :)

[Ratix]

Well, I've watched until Episode 12, and is still downloading the last episode.
About episode 10, I dont understand somethings...

1) Is Cross(AKA Ares) Layla's REAL father?
2) Since Cross is one of the original Dozen, how does he get on the ship to save Layla?
3) Why does he keep saying hes Volk? Is that some sort of psychological effect to stimulate Layla?

[Anlushac11]

Well, I've watched until Episode 12, and is still downloading the last episode.
About episode 10, I dont understand somethings...

1) Is Cross(AKA Ares) Layla's REAL father?
2) Since Cross is one of the original Dozen, how does he get on the ship to save Layla?
3) Why does he keep saying hes Volk? Is that some sort of psychological effect to stimulate Layla?

Spoilers



No Cross is not Layla's father. Layla was born on Eath and raised on the Moon. Layla was on what appears to be a refugee ship trying to land on Mars when Volk ordered it shot down. Layla was the only survivor. Cross is the one who raised Layla and was brutal to her and taught her how to fight. It seems harsh but it was necessary to give Layla the skills she needed to survive on Mars.

2) He didnt, it seems Laylas father put her into an escape pod

3) It seems that the original dozen were either genetically engineered or more likely were clones with enhanced abilities, possibly nanites. When you see Volk at the end you should understand the significance.

[Ratix]

Ooh thanks XD

BTW, I just watched the last episode.

Ummm whats the name of the insert songs in the episodes(If i'm not wrong, there are 4 insert song).

One of them is in Episode 3...
Another 2 in the episode where they met that guy in venus city(I forgot the episode)
And the last one is in the last episode...
I know the name of the last one which is jigoku no Kisetsu...

How bout the other 3?

Thanks ^_^

[Ratix]

Ummm hello anyone?

[SilverLeafTree]

Some more things occured to me:

When Layla and Volg begin fighting in ep 13, she uses a Martian-style fighting taught to her by Cross. Since Cross and Volg were former comrades, it is predictable since Volg is well acquainted to the style.

Perhaps that defensive stance which broke Volg's sword was more of a tribute to Cross than an actual technique. If it was an actual defensive move, Volg would probably be able to predict it, but he seemed quite surprised by her parry.

Layla's dropping of her weapons symbolized a detachment from her and Cross. She realized that she could not defeat Volg with Cross' style. Obviously, she tried to work with Cross' style as far as possible before giving up, revealing her deep respect for the man and his fighting.

The change in technique represented a change in Layla's person. She was changing from the cold, distant, dictatorial Martian style that was so tainted by blood to the familiar, motherly, protective style of her own. When she changes, she is finally able to defeat Volg and protect Nei, revealing that you cannot protect purity (Nei's innocence) with impurity (Cross' fighting style [I say that it is impure because all of the Original Dozen probably have stained their hands in blood in some way, Volg is an extreme example of this when he admits "I am a murderer". Also, the main motive of Cross' teaching was to get revenge upon Volg for destroying the spaceship.]). The only way to protect something as pure as Nei is with the organic, inexplicable love like that of a mother.

What do you guys think? More discussion plz, we still haven't resolved the issue of the red moon! :(

[Ori]

Do anyone know why they said Layla is the reason why there were no more children being born today?

[GarBhaD]

Wow, I watched the last ep and left me shocked and with plenty of questions. Lots of thanks to SilverLeafTree for the explanation. It helped a lot. But I have much more questions to answer, yet.
Why did Layla protects Nei? Why do they join forces in the first episode? If she hates dolls, why doesn't she attack her? At first, Nei is like a doll, in the 2nd ep Speedy makes something in her kneck and all the panthers detected her as a Doll. But thorough the series she transforms. Why is that? Didn't they say that she was born from two Barbaroi? I guess the bad guys pursue her to find out to make more children :P

Now, about the Red Moon. Like someone said before, I too think there's people in that place. At the beginning of the 12th episode, we can see Volk and his servant talking about sleeping-people, cold-sleep and the Red Moon.
I think the spaceship (in the past, with young Leyla) traveled from the Red Moon to Mars. But the people from Mars revolted with Volk as their leader (we saw him on the screens of the ship) and they killed everyone who came from there. The reason why they revolted and despised the people from the red moon is beyond me, though. Volk speaks about protecting his people. Maybe they tried to do some kind of experiment on them? :confused:

Any idea about it?

[Razor]

Ok im sorry if i come off wrong on this but i really liked avenger i thought it was good and i half expected and ending that made you think.... ok the story is very vague they make you figure out alot of things for yourself thats a given. At the end of the episode if you notice she dissapears and later on you see a grave with tags... I thought she survieved but i talked to a friend of mine and what he said is pertty good theme wise. She a ghost... jupiter mentions this in case you missed it when they fight he states she is a ghost. It seems like hes talking metophoricaly but he might be serious... cross mentions finding her on an escape pod crying that her back hurt for days...(You note that no one else survives and its a big escape pod almost like a ship.) days without food or water would kill you espicaly on mars its a desert. It also explains why she refused to take property the dead can own nothing.
Final point... the name the show is called avenger if hes right then she comes back from the dead to avenge her death and the death of all those she knew. I dont like that theory but it holds pertty good as for the moon coming to wipe out mars...i think it ends up in orbit because somethign is mentioned about the moon coming to create a new home.

[Keitaro]

Ok im sorry if i come off wrong on this but i really liked avenger i thought it was good and i half expected and ending that made you think.... ok the story is very vague they make you figure out alot of things for yourself thats a given. At the end of the episode if you notice she dissapears and later on you see a grave with tags... I thought she survieved but i talked to a friend of mine and what he said is pertty good theme wise. She a ghost... jupiter mentions this in case you missed it when they fight he states she is a ghost. It seems like hes talking metophoricaly but he might be serious... cross mentions finding her on an escape pod crying that her back hurt for days...(You note that no one else survives and its a big escape pod almost like a ship.) days without food or water would kill you espicaly on mars its a desert. It also explains why she refused to take property the dead can own nothing.
Final point... the name the show is called avenger if hes right then she comes back from the dead to avenge her death and the death of all those she knew. I dont like that theory but it holds pertty good as for the moon coming to wipe out mars...i think it ends up in orbit because somethign is mentioned about the moon coming to create a new home.

Interesting theory but I don't think Layla is a ghost. Remember she was saved by Cross and they both escaped in a pod together. Cross then trained her to learn how to survive on Mars. Layla is ALIVE and still is. As for Layla leaving at the end of ep13 really boggles my mind. Why did she have to leave? Doesn't she love Nei? Its obvious Layla has changed through the time she spent with Nei. Now what the hell is she gonna do now? Die in peace in the Martian desert alone now that she has avenged her family and peoples deaths. That ending just sucks in my opinion. Don't even get me started about the red moon. I spent enough time trying to figure this series out already. I’m tired trying to figure out this series onto the next series.

[SilverLeafTree]

Why did Layla protects Nei? Why do they join forces in the first episode? If she hates dolls, why doesn't she attack her? At first, Nei is like a doll, in the 2nd ep Speedy makes something in her kneck and all the panthers detected her as a Doll. But thorough the series she transforms. Why is that? Didn't they say that she was born from two Barbaroi? I guess the bad guys pursue her to find out to make more children :P

The first question I think is explored sufficiently in the episode when Layla meets with Cross and he asks her as to why she saved Nei. Layla cannot come up with an answer, even though she is talking to Cross(Cross, as Layla's teacher, is the person she is the most comfortable with in the whole anime). Perhaps she had an instinctive motherly impulse, perhaps she felt sympathy for Nei, perhaps she was fulfilling some kind of destiny of hers, perhaps a mix of the above, or maybe something completely different at all. What you're supposed to get from this is that affection for another is inexplicable and irrational, not something that is based on logic or reason.

Layla in the first episode seems to have some kind of premonition as to who and what Nei is. This is seen when she is reminded of Nei when she glances at one of the serving dolls quickly. It could be that she already knew exactly what Nei was already or it could be that she was subconsciously aware of it. Either way, Layla accepts Nei very easily(compared to others) and quickly becomes Nei's guardian angel, suggesting that she knew either beforehand or immediately thereafter that Nei was a real human, not a doll. The reason as to why she did this has already been explained in the above paragraph.

In episode 2, Speedy just modified the identification collar(ID collar) on Nei. All dolls had an ID collar in the story I believe. We even see the Panther's ID collars on their staff weapons once they were defeated by Layla in episode 2. What Speedy did was he just hacked into Nei's ID collar (which would obviously be illegitimate) using his doll manipulator tool so that Nei's ID collar would be recognizable by Panthers. This was what caused them to stop hunting down Nei.

Nei's transformation is attributed to Layla's motherly protection of her. I think Westa makes a comment about this near the end of episode 13, but I'll have to rewatch the episode myself before elaboration...

Keitaro20:

I think that Layla will search for a new purpose in life. This will be a long journey, she has no family or friends to speak of, Cross is dead, and there is little to do on Mars. However, she will be able to survive due to her impressive skills. She obviously would not be able to fill any usefil niche in a growing society like that of Mars right now. However, what she does afterwards is not as important since she has already accomplished her two main goals in life (Avenge her family, protect Nei). As stated by Ori, Nei needs an education and deserves an easier life, something that Layla will definitely not be able to provide for him. Westa described Layla as being the "strong thorns" protecting Nei, and once Volg's ambitions are out of the picture, Layla realizes that it would be best for Nei to live on without her. You are of course entitled to your opinion of the ending, but IMHO the ending is very fitting and realistic for this kind of series.

[Michipoo]

I'm still a little....well, really really confused about why Westa said that Layla is the reason children are not born on Mars. The first thing that I thought was that the reason Volk killed all the people on the ship was because they would cause the people on mars to become sterile..? like a disease or something...i know it sounds weird, but thats the only thing I can think of..

[Lina]

Wow. I gotta say this ending.. disappointed me a bit. Why? Because Layla made a huge fuse over Nei for about 10 episodes, and at the end she just leaves her there crying.

But I do have mixed feelings. I like unexpected things, and this was a little bit unexpected. We all knew Layla was messed up from the beginning, but I thought with Nei that the whole point of the series was for her to find purpose other than revenge and that purpose was Nei. But when Nei became a female, she just laughs and walks off. I understand why she didn't want the leader position, but why did she leave Nei.. maybe she believes that she cannot be a mother or provide Nei with a good life without of her hatred or otherwise mental scars. But Nei was tagging along with her for a good while and still loved her... Oh well.

I don't think Layla will ever find her purpose (probably just said in hope of another season). I can't think of one. The ending was a little confusing. I think Layla killed herself. Because, if you remember the ending sequence from other episodes, Layla holds a knife to her throat in that same cemetary. Her tag and cape were also placed on the cross with children around it. I guess it was hers? Then they show her blood stained hands (this must mean it was right after her fight with volk) and she is walking off.. to the cemetary to kill herself?

Ah, whatever.. 6/10.

[linuxguru]

I'm still a little....well, really really confused about why Westa said that Layla is the reason children are not born on Mars.
Which fansub did you watch? Anime Source has it like this:

"Layla Ashley, it's all thanks to you. Children could no longer be born in the Domes. But then Nei came, born to Barbaroi parents. This child is like a ray of hope to us. And that hope has just been realized. The proof that humans who have lost Earth can still take root on this red planet."

That makes a lot more sense and from what I can make out it's a more accurate translation than some other fansubs. Westa isn't blaming Layla for the lack of children, she's saying that Nei survived because of her. Nei is proof that there is both life and a future outside of Domes.

[walkerboh]

Which fansub did you watch? Anime Source has it like this:

"Layla Ashley, it's all thanks to you. Children could no longer be born in the Domes. But then Nei came, born to Barbaroi parents. This child is like a ray of hope to us. And that hope has just been realized. The proof that humans who have lost Earth can still take root on this red planet."

That makes a lot more sense and from what I can make out it's a more accurate translation than some other fansubs. Westa isn't blaming Layla for the lack of children, she's saying that Nei survived because of her. Nei is proof that there is both life and a future outside of Domes.


I watched the Anime-Source fansub and was mostly happy with it, but the sentence Westa says about Nei, something like "Nei has secretly been observing our society, until now" really confused the heck out of me. When I watched the CG fansub it was translated differently, something like "Nei hasn't chosen a gender, until now".

In either case I'm a bit confused as to why Layla asks Nei "Is that correct?" and then both cry and Layla rejects Nei and leaves... Did Nei choose to be Male and that maybe meant Layla was no longer needed to protect him?

About the red moon, I also got the impression there were people on it. At least the spaceship Layla was on _came_ from the moon so there must've been people there then... But maybe that spaceship was the _last_ of the people on the moon because it became unlivable?!

About the tags on the cross - I sure hope she just dropped it there and kept going, maybe as the symoblic death she's been wishing for the whole series.

All in all, great show.

[ShadowLady]

What's the romaji for kill me, if you can?

[Oiseau]

Depending on what you mean, that would be "kiru mii" or "(w)atashi (w)o koroshite".

EDIT : Sorry! Reading your thread title, and remembering Avenger, I just understood that you want the romaji for the entire sentence "kill me if you can". I don't know how to add the "if you can" in Japanese. Somebody else will have to help you. ^_^

[ShadowLady]

Thanks anyway..

[Makje]

Well, let me write down what i think is the meaning of this anime.

*****

warning, much reading ahead :heh:

******


I’ll start with a short, somewhat chronological, summary of what happened:

The planet Mars had been succesfully colonized bij humans, though be it only in domes, outside life is still being worked on (Cross working with his plants and finally taking the risk of -succesfully- going outside). Children are being born inside the dome and it’s a happy and good place to live.

Then for some reason the moon comes close and disaster looms. Which moon? I personnaly think the moon from earth is a possibility since the ship that carried Layla came originally from earth and then from that moon to Mars. The original dozen decided that they cannot harbor those extra people for some reason and decide to shoot them down. It is from then that there are no more children being born. (The timespan between that ship going down and the endfight is 13 years, according to Vespa:”13 years ago, Volk began to walk the path of demons”)

But with the barbaroi who had nothing to do with taking down that ship one child (Nei) is born. Mars is making a new start, but not with the original people.

This child is protected by another child, that ironically should have been killed with that ship (Layla).

The original dozen must pay for their sins, especially Volk, and be removed to make a new start for humans at Mars, which is symbolized by Nei and her ‘maturity’.

As for the characters and that red moon:

As for Nei, I think she stand for the life that the planet Mars can give. This is mainly because in the beginning she isn’t alive at all, she is a doll. When we find out that she s a girl she is just a 10 year old girl. As the red moon comes closer she get’s ill and in the hospital she changes from blond to pink haired. During that last fight her transformation is completed when both her eyes become pink (why pink? It’s the color closest to the red of Mars) I’ve seen the Anime-Keep subbed version and Vesta says there that “Nei has been sexually immature. But now she is....” Meaning there can and will be life again, not just from Nei, since she is a symbol for life at Mars in general.

But besides Nei, Volk also stands symbol for life at Mars. He was the leader of the original dozen and only after they stained their hands no more children were born. When his body is damaged the surface of mars is ripped open as well, bringing fort water (which is needed for and symbolizes life). But besides that, both his and Vespa’s bodies needed more and more care as the moon came closer. Cross (who was opposed to shooting down that ship) didn’t need that at all...

For the both of them (Nei and Volk) counts that they stand symbol for life at mars, though be it for different people. They even seem to share pain (Nei felt pain as Layla hurt Volk) and i think she could even have been killed when Layla had pulled through and had killed Volk (I think Layla realised that and that’s why she pulled her hand back, letting Volk live...). And they both react to Mars: as Volk is bleeding and mars is filled with water and starting to live and all, then Nei feels better as well. Volk realises it too when he looks at Nei when he has lost the fight and looks in her eyes. He sees that Nei and Mars live and that he has to die in order for them to grow more. Thats’s why he jumps, he does love Mars and it’s people and therefore he sacrifices himself...

Layla is the victim of the decision by the Original dozen that also heralded the end of children being born on Mars. As such she is a child of the end of Mars (a population without children would eventually grow old and die). Besides that she is the one that lives to Avenge the death of the innocent people aboard that ship, thereby also cleaning the guilt of the people of Mars. It is quite possible that she is indeed a ghost. Not in a Casper the friendly ghost way, but like in that she has been granted life temporarily so she can Avenge their deaths. This kind of Avenging ghosts are more common in literature and movies. That way it would be her own grave among the other graves of the people onboard that ship. It's possible she is a ghost, but not necessary i think.

As for her (maniacle) laughing, i guess that was just a sort of cynical reaction to her realisation that she had protected life when she had just wanted to kill those people. (it would be even more ironical if she had done this as a ghost)

That red moon and Layla seem to have a somewhat similar connection as Nei and Mars have. The red moon and Layla first come to mars at the same time (as a result of the destruction of earth?) and the 2nd coming of that moon also coincides with Layla’s arrival and both are expected to bring death. Though as Layla doesn’t come there anymore just to kill those people but instead to save Nei, so does the moon change from going to put Mars to a destructive end into being the catalyst for the water inside Mars to submerge ard bring life. I guess that is most apparent in that Barbarian with the blond hair (Garcia) who reacts quite surprised to that sunlight: “hey, that wasn’t supposed to happen...”. Again that would mean that a ‘killer of life’ changed into a protector of life, just like Layla.


Well, this is just my opinion about this anime. I must say that reading your takes on this anime helped me understanding it a lot :)

Whoa, it's 7 AM here and i seriously need to get some sleep...

[dreamless]

I think this is one of the most messed up ending. The only thing I understand is that Volk lost the fight, but he won on a bigger scale... and Layla won the fight, but lost Nei...

what's the matter about Nei's gender? Is she/he an evolution of human beings? what about the people in hibernation on the moon? I think the story goes : Earth went KABOOM, the people on Moon went in hibernation and tried to get to Mars. they sent a messenger ship (which Layla was on) to Mars, but Volk decided that Mars can't sustain these refugee, so he blow up the messenger ship. right?

I guess Layla in the end completed her journey of protecting Nei, so as Cross suggested, she went on a new journey, this time for herself...

the music at the end is so strange, it seems they pieced all various music from Noir, .hack and Avenger together to make a new strange song...

[ShadowLady]

Wow makje, your explaination really helped, I think you're right about most of it. This just makes me like the series much more because now I understand how well put together it is. thanks a lot!

[SilverLeafTree]

The thread lives once again!! Oh, and an interesting thing I read up on my AP Euro text...

The term "Barbaroi" was used by ancient Greeks to describe other peoples which they dominated in their empires. This was because their language seemed to sound like "bar bar" to them. Of course, the word "barbarian" was derived from this.

The Greeks saw themselves as a greater race. Their society was structured around city-states and they believed that it was natural for Greeks to be free and have liberties. However, they believed that the surrounding barbaroi societies were there to be naturally dominated and ruled, since they seemed to be constantly dominated by warring factions anyway.

I'm not sure how this completely corresponds to Avenger... there is no iron fist domination over the barbaroi as there was in history. However, there is a general idea of "barbaroi" and "non-barbaroi," and the people do not hesitate to use that card when needed (as when Layla was rejected from the city for killing a doll). Barbarois in Avenger are treated with respect but are also seen as distinctly different, very similar to the Japanese treatment of foreigners in their country.

Any ideas on this?

[Flippy]

I started the series a month ago and I've been spreading out that episodes because it's just one of thouse series. There's tons of times when I was asking my self what the hell is going on but I like being kept in the dark alittle, that's apart of the fun of this series. Also it's not like I fall a sleep due to the series since there is great animation and action ever other episode. The music is a corny sometimes but it helps make the series just like it did in .hack//sign. I noticed that Avenger and .hack//sign where by the same creator and if I had to choose between the 2 series it would have to be Avenger. I might cosplay Layla one of these day, that's how much I like the series. It's not the best anime I've seen but it's entertaining.

[Fighter Volk]

It's one of my favorite series. Although I also loved .hack//Sign, Noir, and am loving Madlax... but it's still amazing!

It's also where my namesake is from :)

[dreamless]

it's a so-so anime IMO, great music, though not really fitting the situation, like sometimes when there's nothing happening suddenly there's an intense music, and when the music stops when they start the fight @_@

and the ending got to be one of the most confusing anime endings ever. It's not something that hard to understand, but rather a lot of stuff suddenly come out of the blue without any hint and then without any explanations...

[Fighter Volk]

I loved the music and thought it was great, occasionally out of place, but mainly perfect. I also loved how over 60 percent of the OST was composed for the last three or four episodes alone :D

I thought the ending was excellent. Soooo deep, and so many ways to decipher it! I loved everyone at the end of 13, even Layla, who is pretty hard to like ^^

[Wilcon]

I just finished Avenger, and I must say I'm rather confused, but now I've read a few posts, so It makes a little bit more sense, but I'm still lost here :)

I didn't quite like the ending, no matter how you look at it, but the music was quite interesting, and overall Avenger was alot better than I expected. 7/10

[Choogy]

I enjoyed it very much...I was able to see it before it was liscensed luckily, as I had read about it and thought it interesting.

It's really well done, I just wish there was more of a story afterwards...Well, it ended perfect, but it could be nice to see a continuation...

[MartAnimE]

This is defenitly so out of time :heh: but... regarding the possibility on life on Mars, I've seen a documentary on tv where they said that there was found water on Mars, under solid state of course. So this rocket scientist defended that, in the near future, let's say 50 years, people could travel to Mars. Most important: Mars doesn't have a living human being suportive atmosphere, it's completely frozen and the air doesn't have the essential components that humans need to breath, so it would be impossible for people to go around without any kind of suit, as we see in avenger. But this guy said that if human beings intentionally raised the temperature, kinda like we did on our own planet but much worse, releasing cfcs and the kind, you know, the global warming, Mars's dense atmosphere would be so much damaged that the global warming would start to melt the ice, thus creating water (seas and rivers) on mars, thus creating a life support environment. Of course this is a catastrophic process that would have to cease as soon as the environment could suport human life. With the reappearing of water, the atmosphere would start changing, evaporation would give the atmosphere the components we need to breath, provinient from the water, thus becoming more and more like earth's atmosphere, and I mean in every aspect cuz the red planet would mostly became blue like the earth, because atmosphere reflects the environment, the sky would be blue because of the water, just like in earth. And then people could live on mars as they normally do on earth, in terms of breathing proccess at least... Of course this problem would take like 100 years, and we're talking about massive cfc release, like hundreds of factories continually relesing those cfcs. But, theorically, life on mars can be possible!
I not making up any of this, the guy who said it on tv looked like he knew what he was saying, so I got really exicting and this reminded me of avenger cuz I just loved the anime and I was wondering if life on Mars could possibly became a reality like in that show. After watching that documentary I came to the conclusion that it is, but people on avenger were cheating cuz there was still no natural water, nor any apparent atmosphere modification... :eyebrow:
Please don't flame, if you find my post completely irrelevant and/or boring just don't bother to reply :heh:

[dreamless]

I thought the ending was excellent. Soooo deep, and so many ways to decipher it! I loved everyone at the end of 13, even Layla, who is pretty hard to like ^^

I think there is an "official explanation" to the ending in an interview with Mashimo Koichi, where he said something like that Layla always wants to protect Nei and that's her sole purpose in life, she's living for Nei, and in return she wants Nei to be hers alone too. But Nei turns out to be the saviour of humanity on Mars, she will become the Eve of a new humanity, she will be everyone's Nei, that's the meaning of her life. So Layla become very despair as she has lost Nei, and she has to go on to find her own meaning of life without Nei.

very weird explanation I have to say :eyespin:

[MartAnimE]

I think there is an "official explanation" to the ending in an interview with Mashimo Koichi, where he said something like that Layla always wants to protect Nei and that's her sole purpose in life, she's living for Nei, and in return she wants Nei to be hers alone too. But Nei turns out to be the saviour of humanity on Mars, she will become the Eve of a new humanity, she will be everyone's Nei, that's the meaning of her life. So Layla become very despair as she has lost Nei, and she has to go on to find her own meaning of life without Nei.

very weird explanation I have to say :eyespin:

I never heard about that "oficial explanation" by Koichi Mashimo :confused: but it sure would help me to understand a little more about the chaotic ending... where did you get that? dvd extras maybe? by the way, I know this series was licensed, but are the dvds available for sale already?