Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Pellissier

2007-11-08, 11:21

Welcome to the discussion thread for Shakugan no Shana II, Episode 6.

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ashlay

2007-11-08, 12:08

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/904/1194539952404de1ata2.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1194539952404de1ata2.jpg)

:rolleyes:

animation quality took a particularly noticeable hit this week...

well, nothing but relationship development, so I'm guessing a lot of people will again be relatively disappointed. But Yoshida and Shana have finally gotten out of their little jealousy depressions, and Ogata and Margery had some real interaction (vs. the hot spring's special), so all and all I'd say it was a worthwile episode. Was also funny to see Shana realizing she too has no idea how to clean dishes while trying to show Konoe (maybe Shana should start using the "I'm a helpless little princess" routine on Yuji too? well, suppose her pride always got in the way of that plan.)

next week looks like it'll be focusing on Ike. hmm....

Kinny Riddle

2007-11-08, 13:15

Goodness, I'm the first to place my vote?

Anyway, in terms of plot, not much, but in terms of character, it's an improvement from the mindless angst of the last two episodes, mainly because they got the adaptation of the study session scene in Satou's mansion and the scene with Margey parting with her (centuries long) wisdom on how to deal with romantic angst spot on, since these two vital scenes are from novel volume 8.

All I can say is, Margery shows why she's the "grown-up", not just physically as well.

Next episode we're back to more original stuff again, focusing on Ike. I wonder how many more weeks before they'll get back to the story, or even do the second prequel from volume 10 to kill time?

minhtam1638

2007-11-08, 14:22

Anyway, in terms of plot, not much, but in terms of character, it's an improvement from the mindless angst of the last two episodes, mainly because they got the adaptation of the study session scene in Satou's mansion and the scene with Margey parting with her (centuries long) wisdom on how to deal with romantic angst spot on, since these two vital scenes are from novel volume 8.

:confused: that's not the event I predicted from novel 8...

Kinny Riddle

2007-11-08, 14:48

:confused: that's not the event I predicted from novel 8...
What are you talking about? Those two scenes are taken straight from novel volume 8, the only difference is that they incorporated these two scenes into the "Hecate" original storyline.

ashlay

2007-11-08, 14:50

:confused: that's not the event I predicted from novel 8...
and you say that because? 0_o

somewhat odd really, since vol 8 was where the Hecate in school clothes sketch came from. Wonder which came first, Konoe or the decision to adapt more of volume 8?

minhtam1638

2007-11-08, 14:55

I was thinking more particularly of a different scene from novel 8. But yeah, those two scenes shown here in this episode are vital to the storyline.

piku

2007-11-08, 16:13

Actually I have not much expectation on this episode, but this one is not that bad. Nice job of Margery (hey where's your shirt and pants?) , and the girls are so upright. Just like the novels' did.

I miss the drawing style of s1 very much...s2 is no so bad anyway.

Deathkillz

2007-11-08, 19:18

I miss the drawing style of s1 very much...s2 is no so bad anyway.
i agree...i seem to prefer the design of S1 better than S2...shana's face just looks a bit off to me compared to previously :/ (maybe she grew up XD)

anyway...another rather "meh" ep...this series should be balanced with action but seen as we havent seen any yet it really is a drag...(the clown and ring fool doesnt count :rolleyes:).

ashlay

2007-11-08, 19:41

anyway...another rather "meh" ep...this series should be balanced with action but seen as we havent seen any yet it really is a drag...(the clown and ring fool doesnt count :rolleyes:).
Then what exactly does 'count' as action? 0_o

though to be fair, this was the first week where there wasn't at least a training scene or tomogara fight of some kind.

serenade_beta

2007-11-08, 20:16

Then what exactly does 'count' as action? 0_o

Some sort of Denizen appearing, I guess. Of course, one like Kasha is not wanted.

Mah... It is the way is has been these past weeks. The continuing saga of the "urei no shojo-tachi".
Except, oh my, they finally do more than sulk on the rooftop by the end of this episode.

Not much to say... Let's see:

Yuuji - Still a dense idiot
Everyone else - Like they've always been, except Shana and Kazumi start doing better, though it is simply a case of "0-1+1" where they end up where they originally were.
Though Shana gets reduced to Fumina-level at the dish-washing part.

Preview - Ike Hayato, Light of Glory... -_- The preview kind of scares me...

I guess the Fumina arc isn't ending anytime soon... Oh, well.

Kang Seung Jae

2007-11-08, 20:19

The quality............ My eyes!

Tokkan

2007-11-08, 20:23

Hmmm... this was good, but it kind of goes nowhere. I'm liking these episodes, but when are they getting back to the main plot?

minhtam1638

2007-11-08, 20:51

Kind of a prediction, but: Ike becomes a torch... right here.

ashlay

2007-11-08, 21:58

Kind of a prediction, but: Ike becomes a torch... right here.
I've been somewhat wondering when Konoe is going to start eating people...

GoldAlchemist

2007-11-09, 09:55

3, 4, 5 and now 6, we're still pretty much getting the same thing. I hope it stops here, else it's going to be worse than Zero no Tsukaima 2.

The best couple of minutes in this episode are the ones showing Shana and Hecate in the kitchen trying to figure out the dishwasher. Hecate smiles finally! By the way, Noto Mamiko's voice can melt me anytime. :heh:

rozenfreak123

2007-11-09, 10:33

Yeah, they to move the storyline because at this rate Bal Masque won't be moving until Episode 15. Jeez, so many plotholes and twists that are not needed!

Ratix

2007-11-09, 11:58

<_<... More shana plox.

minhtam1638

2007-11-09, 14:05

I once had wings

2007-11-09, 17:06

This is lame.. at this rate no action til season 3

minhtam1638

2007-11-09, 17:34

This is lame.. at this rate no action til season 3

You know, I once had wings too... but they disappeared when you mentioned season III, which will probably not exist.

I once had wings

2007-11-09, 17:41

lol well you never know, maybe they'll do the dbz inuyasha thing and have 6 seasons

serenade_beta

2007-11-09, 17:50

lol well you never know, maybe they'll do the dbz inuyasha thing and have 6 seasons

No, they really won't.

X10A_Freedom

2007-11-09, 17:58

As much as I like slice of life...it's about time they brought a hardcore tomogare out.

Shana without slice of life isn't right, but it's also not right without some epic battles.

serenade_beta

2007-11-10, 04:44

*stretches*

Hah...

In the darkness, Shana's sword swings glitter and at that moment, the screams of agony of demons resounds. But, Shana was not wielding Nietono no Shana, nor was she outside waiting for Yuuji.

Yes, in order to invite Fumina to an amusement park debut, Shana and friends gather the usual members to go to "Fancy Park".

The coordinator is Hayato Ike, who has the belief that "good memories are born from good planning". Everyone thought that he was the best at planning. Also, he himself, to make the plan succeed, decides to once again appeal to Kazumi as a reliable man who could take up leadership.

But...

Pictures:

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/07_01.jpg - Main characters for the episode, perhaps?

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/07_02.jpg - Fumina in that dress :love:

The preview could have left out the first part... -_-
Kind of makes the paragraph silly...

*brings out more tea*

*gets some snacks*

At least the focus might not be Shana and Kazumi this time...

ashlay

2007-11-10, 12:12

But...

I'm afraid. :uhoh:

poor Ike...doesn't he deserve love too? :\

minhtam1638

2007-11-10, 12:23

Kinny Riddle

2007-11-11, 02:15

Hey... Shana's wearing something different...

EDIT: Finally found access to the RAW, and although I haven't watched all of it yet, I'll have to say this.

Keisaku has a frickin HDTV... and a soda machine...
Not surprising, he is the lonely rich kid of the series. Satou's backstory has yet to be further developed by Takahashi, save that he's estranged from his family and they just let him have the mansion by himself, thus making it a very ideal place for Margery to drink all the booze for free.

tabun

2007-11-11, 05:17

I'd say this episode aggravates me, but that would overdo it. I just hope they have some really intense action coming up, justifying the lack of animation quality and story developement. The last 4 episodes would easily have fit into 2 or 1.5 - still, I have not given up on the story yet :heh:

Oh, and character development is a good thing. However, so little of it coming at this high a cost in precious episode time is irritating to say the least.

Another week of waiting begins...

grey_moon

2007-11-11, 06:13

Thank f**k some progress!!!! Thank you Margery no longer shall I think of you just as a drunken bum, instead I name thee wise drunken bum.

I wonder why Alastor isn't able to give a little more love advice to Shana? He was in a love love relationship with the previous Flame Haze and he has been around for ages.

Looking forward to the next epi from the preview looks like Ike is going to go for his wings. Good luck Ike!

tabun

2007-11-11, 06:51

*snip* He was in a love love relationship with the previous Flame Haze and *snip*

If I may ask, what gave you that impression?

grey_moon

2007-11-11, 07:35

If I may ask, what gave you that impression?

Series 1, epi 15 and 16

minhtam1638

2007-11-11, 07:53

Series 1, epi 15 and 16

I don't think it was that kind of love.

Double T

2007-11-11, 08:18

Well, another good episode for me, but nothing spectacular. Seems like we are finally done with the jealousy and Shana and Yoshida seem to have both realized that their feelings towards Yuji are quite serious...

I can´t help myself but think that we are back at the end of season 1 now...:eyebrow:

Ah, whatever, I especially liked the short scene at the end when Shana began to train Yuji again, now that was so sweet. Yuji was so happy to see her back, you just need to look at their eyes and you know that these two share a special bond (either that, or Yuji likes to be beaten up by lolis:heh:).

I wonder why Alastor isn't able to give a little more love advice to Shana?
Yeah, I was wondering why Alastor was so quite these past few episodes. Heck, I think even Tiamat had more lines of dialog than Alastor, wtf?

I don't think it was that kind of love.
I think it is argueable. Other than Shana, the previous Red-Hot-Eyed Hunter was a grown up woman, so when she said "I love you" right before her death i think it has more meaning to it than lets say if Shana would say the same. Even if physical contact would be impossible between the two, it could have been more than just a sort of "parental love", but well, it is pretty much in the air, so it is up to the viewer how he wants to interpret this relationship.

Now, next week seems to be focussing on Ike, and since I like Ike as a character, I think I´m going to enjoy this episode(and I hope for some YujixShana development I mean, come on, after so many Konoe episodes we really need a change;))

grey_moon

2007-11-11, 08:22

I don't think it was that kind of love.

What kind of love? The type that makes you jealous? Or rumpy pumpy in a bed of hay?

Shana's predecessor most defiantly loved him, just as Shiro loved her and Wilma loved Shiro. Their story is all about tragic love that was centred around the sacrifice of summoning Alastor which she knew that she would need to do one day. Notice how she describes Alastor as her man.

Alastor has been around for a while and had god knows how many flame hazes and must have seen a bit of romance here and there. I'm sure that they said that Shana was the first they actually raised up to be a Flame Haze, the rest I'm sure has some experience with love and all the baggage that goes with it.

*Edit*

BTW I believe that Alastor loves Shana as a daughter because the previous Flame Haze was the one who instigated the whole train Shana up to be a worthy succesor. I don't see it being too far fetched for him to associate Shana with something that she created with the help of Wilma and Shiro.

tabun

2007-11-11, 08:48

Yes, and because of the different nature of his relation to Shana's predecessor, I think Alastor is hardly able to give Shana any advice at all. The concept of uncertainty about her actual feelings towards Yuji seem to be either hard to grasp for him, or he wants to let her sort it out alone (think of Alastor's conversation with Yuji's mother!).

endlezz

2007-11-11, 10:10

i agree...i seem to prefer the design of S1 better than S2...shana's face just looks a bit off to me compared to previously :/ (maybe she grew up XD)

anyway...another rather "meh" ep...this series should be balanced with action but seen as we havent seen any yet it really is a drag...(the clown and ring fool doesnt count :rolleyes:).

Yes, I was wondering about it too! I thought it was just my imagination, but there certainly IS a difference. Shana was kind of hawter in S1, though I cannot point out why.

I liked this episode a lot more than 5 cuz finally Shana and Yoshida are back to normal.
Oh and Yuuji is surely losing my respect for beeing so totally dense. I mean Yoshida actually confessed to him, lol.

fuzzles

2007-11-11, 11:54

my patience is running thin, I can't stand any more of this slice of life theres so many other shows that do so much better a job at it, i wish i had the patience to marathon this show like i did with s1 then maybe i wouldn't suffer as much waiting for next week just to be so disapointed

when am i gonna see the cute little girl with the gigantic long sword slashing away at cute little tomogara again :(

Grimkill7

2007-11-11, 12:15

OMG! Next episode! It looks like!... It looks like! ... Oh wait. It's just another stupid episode that has nothing to do with nothing. My mistake. But hey, amusement parks are fun. But of course that's when you're at them.

Aquifina

2007-11-11, 12:16

Finally... Shana and Yoshida stop acting stupid. This ep. should have taken the place for five.

I was hoping for an action ep., but I guess I can live with one focused on Ike. I'm genuinely curious as to how it'll go.

grey_moon

2007-11-11, 12:23

I was hoping for an action ep., but I guess I can live with one focused on Ike. I'm genuinely curious as to how it'll go.

My money is he is going to get shot down. In my opinion Yoshida has invested too much in black hole boy for Ike's late entry to make a difference. The only way I can see him ending up with her is if Yuji grows some balls, a working set of eyes and a brain that isn't made of the missing dark matter for this galaxy and does something about Yoshida's confession.

fuzzles

2007-11-11, 12:29

My money is he is going to get shot down. In my opinion Yoshida has invested too much in black hole boy for Ike's late entry to make a difference. The only way I can see him ending up with her is if Yuji grows some balls, a working set of eyes and a brain that isn't made of the missing dark matter for this galaxy and does something about Yoshida's confession.

yeah probably but he won't get completely shot down, yoshida will probably be shocked but i don't see how she would say "no"

I think it'll spark a fight between sakai and ike though in the end over yoshida where ike will be super pissed at sakai and then we go into a fight scene where konoe's true evil self comes out at the end and we leave ike all alone and becomes a victim(or so i hope seriously we need some action)

grey_moon

2007-11-11, 12:37

yeah probably but he won't get completely shot down, yoshida will probably be shocked but i don't see how she would say "no"

I think it'll spark a fight between sakai and ike though in the end over yoshida where ike will be super pissed at sakai and then we go into a fight scene where konoe's true evil self comes out at the end and we leave ike all alone and becomes a victim(or so i hope seriously we need some action)

I don't think it would be fair for Yuji to fight with Ike over Yoshida, it would just so go against all that angsting he did is S1.

I'm actually hoping that Konoe isn't evil. I'm sure she has something to do with Hecate, but I think it would be nice if she wasn't just an evil cog in Balle Masque's scheme. I'm hoping she is like a neutral blank being used by them. I think she is starting to grow on me :p

fuzzles

2007-11-11, 12:39

I don't think it would be fair for Yuji to fight with Ike over Yoshida, it would just so go against all that angsting he did is S1.

I'm actually hoping that Konoe isn't evil. I'm sure she has something to do with Hecate, but I think it would be nice if she wasn't just an evil cog in Balle Masque's scheme. I'm hoping she is like a neutral blank being used by them. I think she is starting to grow on me :p

sorry i didn't mean he would fight i ment that ike would get pissed at him and throw a punch or something out of frustration

Grimkill7

2007-11-11, 12:39

yeah probably but he won't get completely shot down, yoshida will probably be shocked but i don't see how she would say "no"

I think it'll spark a fight between sakai and ike though in the end over yoshida where Ike will be super pissed at sakai and then we go into a fight scene where konoe's true evil self comes out at the end and we leave ike all alone and becomes a victim(or so i hope seriously we need some action)

Don't worry. I'm sure if Ike does confess, the production staff will push the reset button and have him play it off as a joke or something after seeing her reaction. After all, the love triangle (Or is it square? Pentagon?) creates 97.653% of the current plot. Getting rid of it would mean having to give the fans what they want to see. Unacceptable.

fuzzles

2007-11-11, 12:49

Don't worry. I'm sure if Ike does confess, the production staff will push the reset button and have him play it off as a joke or something after seeing her reaction. After all, the love triangle (Or is it square? Pentagon?) creates 97.653% of the current plot. Getting rid of it would mean having to give the fans what they want to see. Unacceptable.

phew thank god they'll do that i was afraid for a sec

plzd0ntkeelme

2007-11-11, 13:05

Ep 6 was still devoid of action

Yuuji was still clueless about Shana and Yoshida's actions, but the girls were overly jealous about the entire thing. They were not dating Yuuji or anything so what's with the attitudes. If they ever date Yuuji, he might be prohibited to speak with any female. Margery finally gets a proper screentime with her giving the advice which actually kinda sound like common sense. The Lack of action in the last 3 eps is starting to hurt this series. Judging from the preview, this is likely to continue in Ep 7.

S_K

2007-11-11, 14:09

I honestly dont give a damn about Ike, I wanna see some action. i think me and everyone here has had enough of these past episodes! Argh!

minhtam1638

2007-11-11, 14:10

Aquifina

2007-11-11, 14:13

My money is he is going to get shot down. In my opinion Yoshida has invested too much in black hole boy for Ike's late entry to make a difference. The only way I can see him ending up with her is if Yuji grows some balls, a working set of eyes and a brain that isn't made of the missing dark matter for this galaxy and does something about Yoshida's confession.

Well, there's no guarantee Ike actually will confess in this ep. I actually doubt that he will--I think it's too early for such a climactic moment. But he will clearly have some kind of "plan" at the amusement park, which I guess will be spoiled by circumstances. Even without a fight scene, it'll be nice to see the world from Ike's perspective for a bit. But I do hope we get into a fight arc in ep. 8.

stormy001_M1A2

2007-11-11, 14:15

Was it me, or too many people expecting things to blow up on regular basis ala Micheal Bay style just because it is Shakugan no Shana?

Let the story run its course, instead of instantly condemning the building up. It is obvious they going to show the emotional stakes of principal players of the story so later on in epic battle, the character's motivation and super ordinate goals make more sense instead of blindly going into fight.

What ep 6 basically establish is Shana understood her motivation to be with Yuji in more and more human like terms but worryingly, Yuji seems to be more and more detached from human relationship because he is into the world of Fuzetsu, forgotten to be human little by little. It is paradoxical to see him become less and less human like in action and Shana is becoming more and more closer to human.

A justified and sensible cause for fight will make the action more enjoyable instead of monster of the week fare.

ashlay

2007-11-11, 14:18

Was it me, or too many people expecting things to blow up just because it is Shakugan no Shana?

Let the story run its course, instead of instantly condemning the building up. It is obvious they going to show the emotional stakes of principal players of the story so later on in epic battle, the character's motivation and super ordinate goals make more sense instead of blindly going into fight.

A justified and sensible cause for fight will make the action more enjoyable instead of monster of the week fare.
well the only problem is that the fight that this material was supposed to build up to (Wilhelmina) has already been done. :\

though I suppose that's what Konoe is for...

Rhyel

2007-11-11, 15:12

I little better episode, nothing happens, but is more fun and have character development. 7/10

kimchipride

2007-11-11, 15:15

That was a refreshing episode. I didn't like the last 3 episodes of Shana but for some reason, I liked this one. Maybe I'm just in a good mood. I misplaced my vote though :(. This episode was funny in some parts. I really want this arc to end and hopefully it ends soon. Plz just explain to us who Konoe is and next arc plz. Yuuji is a freaking retard. Doesn't know what the hell is going on. Anyhow 8/10

Masanori Ota

2007-11-11, 15:21

Gave it a 9, the directing this episode was TOP NOTCH. Seriously, the music was timed perfectly, the transitions were well placed, my heart even skipped a beat at the very end. You know why.

Next episode looks interesting. Each character is getting more and more depth, which is great.

FlareKnight

2007-11-11, 15:38

I know there will be a lot of, 'Shana isn't all about action, about the character developments and relationships etc.' But I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for some action. We've hit the 6th episode don't think it's crazy to have a meaningful fight that is important.

At least we finally burst out of the depressed zone we were dealing with. Though probably closer to the end of last season with Shana and Yoshida understanding how they feel and willing to move forward. Shana is back training with Yuji who was pretty happy to see her again.

Did find interesting the acknowledgment that these days can't last. Which for me is a good message :heh:. But really Yuji does understand he will have to leave the city sooner or later and that is just how things are. Margery is top notch in handing out some advice and clearing any problems with Ogata.

Alastor really has been a silent guy recently. I know there is only so much he can do, but would've expected more of an effort to get Shana out of this funk. You'd almost forget he was there after a while.

It's Ike's turn to get out there. At least he should give things a shot since Yuji isn't going to be doing much or noticing what's going on. Not sure if he'll get his confession off the ground or if anything will really come from it. Right now Yoshida is so serious about Yuji I'm not sure what chances he's got.

Phoenix14

2007-11-11, 16:33

It's really sucking at the moment...

Guido

2007-11-11, 16:37

I do praise the current direction the series is now offering because we get to see several of the recurring and regular characters at getting properly fleshed out the trials and tribulations that they have experienced or facing new situations that are new to them.

I think the drop of story progress is due that the previous season thoroughly explain and expanded with every detail about the background and origins of Shana as well as the flame haze that bears the title of enpatsu shakugan no uchite.

But, honestly while I still rated this episode with a high grade, nonetheless, it is getting dull and vexing Yuuji's inability to see his own unthoughtfulness for both Shana and Kazumi when it comes to Konoe.
The whole walk-Konoe-to-the-school-routine has grown old on me now.

We need now some progress on who might Konoe actually may be; what does Bal Masque intends to do for their next preparations; and most importantly is for that this season finally addresses what is the reiji maigo?
The second season started with a bang for the first two episodes, but when Konoe arrived it still moved on in the third episode but lastly switch to character development mode from the fourth and onwards curently.

Thank goodness that this episode delivered a major Margery Daw of advice from experience.

In summary, jealousy is an inevitable outcome resulting from unrequited love. Like love, jealousy is a human emotion, and therefore, neither of the two girls should be ashamed to face their ugly side. It is proof that they love Yuuji. The problem was that both were running away or neglecting that their ugly side was taking their toll on them.

The most sincere solution is that they actually talk to Yuuji about the experience they have felt or likely is to begin understanding the subject of their love, Yuuji.

That is Shana's path; her realization, which made her to become honest with herself and opened.

The last but not least is that that tranquility is just transient, therefore, the old gang should treasure this few moments together for as much as possible because no one knows when and how things would turn for good or worse the next time, as Satou put out.

Anh_Minh

2007-11-11, 16:49

Two thoughts that crossed my mind while watching:
- I never thought I'd say this, but Shana looks good with glasses.
- I never thought I'd say this either, but Margery Daw is cool and mature.

X10A_Freedom

2007-11-11, 16:52

As for Ike's confession...

I've read a thread earlier that it's in the OP! ;D

minhtam1638

2007-11-11, 17:04

Honestly, this is not good. Hayato was supposed to confess to Kazumi during Christmas.It's like what? October?

ashlay

2007-11-11, 17:06

Honestly, this is not good. Hayato was supposed to confess to Kazumi during Christmas.It's like what? October?
plan ends in failure obviously. Isn't it sad Ike-kun? :heh:

minhtam1638

2007-11-11, 17:07

plan ends in failure obviously. Isn't it sad Ike-kun? :heh:

Yeah, but still, it's too early.

ashlay

2007-11-11, 17:16

Yeah, but still, it's too early.
oh come on, the SnS romance component has always been about the attempts at relationships and the inevitable failures. Not like its limited to Shana and Yuji. (Ogata and Eita have already proved that >.>)

Ike's going to try and fail next week, and then try again later in the season. But none of that particularly matters right now. The interest in the confession isn't the outcome, but in how Ike fails and hopefully what that says about him as a character. (well, unless of course this is where the series shifts gears again and something bad happens :uhoh: ...)

holyman282

2007-11-11, 17:46

Hmm good ep.. Finally we get a resolution to Yoshida's and Shana's jealousy... Although I though the title was bit deceiving as it said "the night before an Ordeal" I was thinking the ordeal would be something greater but it only turned out to be a test lol.. The next ep looks interesting, as we finally see Ike make his move.

lua thien

2007-11-11, 18:18

oh come on, the SnS romance component has always been about the attempts at relationships and the inevitable failures. Not like its limited to Shana and Yuji. (Ogata and Eita have already proved that >.>)

Ike's going to try and fail next week, and then try again later in the season. But none of that particularly matters right now. The interest in the confession isn't the outcome, but in how Ike fails and hopefully what that says about him as a character. (well, unless of course this is where the series shifts gears again and something bad happens :uhoh: ...)

It would really be terrible for him if he turned out to be a Torch, got rejected by Yoshida, and burned out a second afterwards in angst right in front of her.

ashlay

2007-11-11, 18:22

It would really be terrible for him if he turned out to be a Torch, got rejected by Yoshida, and burned out a second afterwards in angst right in front of her.
I'm pretty sure Ogata talking to Ike this week eliminates that possibility.

minhtam1638

2007-11-11, 18:22

It would really be terrible for him if he turned out to be a Torch, got rejected by Yoshida, and burned out a second afterwards in angst right in front of her.

uh... actually...

That's exactly what's supposed to happen...

On a side note, are you Vietnamese?

KaneDragon

2007-11-11, 18:28

As for Ike's confession...

I've read a thread earlier that it's in the OP! ;D

Oh, yeah. I guess that means that absolutely no progress will be made until Christmas. In the meantime, we have plenty of rehashed love square filler to tide us over.... :rolleyes:

That Ike scene in the OP... that was my moment of hope that we'd get past this, but now I realize the dark side. :(

FlareKnight

2007-11-11, 18:48

KholdStare

2007-11-11, 19:07

9/10

I quite enjoyed the episode, but it still lacked action. The only reason I'm giving this a nine is because I hope this love square thing will end next episode, now that Shana isn't being emo anymore.

grey_moon

2007-11-11, 19:21

I forgot to say in my thoughts about this epi +1 to Yoshida for her honourable act at the end.

I wish jealousy was so easy to get over.

lua thien

2007-11-11, 19:31

uh... actually...

That's exactly what's supposed to happen...

On a side note, are you Vietnamese?

I'm three-quarters Vietnamese and a quarter French.

Torches don't disappear immediately. Some could take years depending on their burnout rate.

Satou's place is remarkably clean despite the fact that he nor Keisaku nor Margery does the cleaning. Think they could conscript Wilhelmina in case their maid quits?

I wonder who Shana faced when she held the blue lightsaber for ep7...

grey_moon

2007-11-11, 19:40

Gotta be tough for Ike. Going into the next episode without a chance for success. But guess since he doesn't know he doesn't have a chance it'll be fine...maybe. Possibly teaching a lesson that you don't need a big plan for confessing, just have to do it.

I think that Ike will fail, get eaten and become a torch and in the few days he has left:

Yuji will realise that just coz he is has warped into dense boy, the rest of the world will still carry on and he will regret not making a decision on his relationship (messing it up for Ike) and on his carelessness in regards to the tomogara.

Yoshida will regret the chance she had a getting love and strive even harder to get Yuji and maybe even go to the dark side to get her goal.

Ike will wonder wtf is up with these two and why are they being so nice to him....

Grimkill7

2007-11-11, 19:45

I think that Ike will fail, get eaten and become a torch and in the few days he has left:

Yuji will realise that just coz he is has warped into dense boy, the rest of the world will still carry on and he will regret not making a decision on his relationship (messing it up for Ike) and on his carelessness in regards to the tomogara.

Yoshida will regret the chance she had a getting love and strive even harder to get Yuji and maybe even go to the dark side to get her goal.

Ike will wonder wtf is up with these two and why are they being so nice to him....

I think Yoshida would have to hook up with him. Kinda like a pity thing.

minhtam1638

2007-11-11, 19:50

I'm three-quarters Vietnamese and a quarter French.

Torches don't disappear immediately. Some could take years depending on their burnout rate.

Satou's place is remarkably clean despite the fact that he nor Keisaku nor Margery does the cleaning. Think they could conscript Wilhelmina in case their maid quits?

I wonder who Shana faced when she held the blue lightsaber for ep7...I was kind of being sarcastic when I said the second after, but yes, torches do tend to take a while to burn out, and Hayato is supposed to be due on Christmas day.

Of course, Keisaku's place is always clean because the writers fail to mention the maid and that we assume that the maid is there. And uh, I don't think Wilhelmina would be interested.

I think that Ike will fail, get eaten and become a torch and in the few days he has left:

Yuji will realise that just coz he is has warped into dense boy, the rest of the world will still carry on and he will regret not making a decision on his relationship (messing it up for Ike) and on his carelessness in regards to the tomogara.

Yoshida will regret the chance she had a getting love and strive even harder to get Yuji and maybe even go to the dark side to get her goal.

Ike will wonder wtf is up with these two and why are they being so nice to him....

Except that this little carnival thing is equivalent to Six Flags Fright Fest... in that it is October that we're talking about right now.

Yuji needs to realize (ooh, spelling error corrected) that he is dense, because his ignorance may be the obstacle point for the next battle. I still think you're right about the Kazumi thing - that she will play real dirty.

grey_moon

2007-11-11, 19:56

Yuji needs to realize (ooh, spelling error corrected) that he is dense, because his ignorance may be the obstacle point for the next battle. I still think you're right about the Kazumi thing - that she will play real dirty.

I'm British :heh:

I'm still having troubles dealing with the disparity between Yuji's battle smarts and his love smarts. They do say that love is war or something like that...

minhtam1638

2007-11-11, 20:04

I'm British :heh:

I'm still having troubles dealing with the disparity between Yuji's battle smarts and his love smarts. They do say that love is war or something like that...

Don't tell me that Britain's "realise" is America's "realize".

Well, there is a difference between the physical world and the emotional world, and Yuji has only gotten proper training in the physical world.

KaneDragon

2007-11-11, 20:12

ashlay

2007-11-11, 20:17

On an unrelated note, I'm not sure why they were saying that Wilhelmina's training was reaching its limits... Shana's earlier training tended to be a lot of using Yuji like a glorified battery. The meido's tentacle rape attacks seem like they'd be more effective at training Yuji. With the whole attack-from-all-sides thing with multiple ribbons, etc...
What Alastor meant was that Wilhelmina would only go for so long training Yuji in Shana's place without a good explanation from Shana (and I somehow doubt "because I'm jealous" was gonna cut it.)

lua thien

2007-11-11, 20:18

I was kind of being sarcastic when I said the second after, but yes, torches do tend to take a while to burn out, and Hayato is supposed to be due on Christmas day.

Of course, Keisaku's place is always clean because the writers fail to mention the maid and that we assume that the maid is there. And uh, I don't think Wilhelmina would be interested.

Except that this little carnival thing is equivalent to Six Flags Fright Fest... in that it is October that we're talking about right now.

Yuji needs to realize (ooh, spelling error corrected) that he is dense, because his ignorance may be the obstacle point for the next battle. I still think you're right about the Kazumi thing - that she will play real dirty.

Due on Christmas Day... Ike's received gift for Christmas... a visit by the angel of death who says "You're a Torch and about to burn out. Any last words before I give you your ticket to Heaven?"

I'm surprised that Satou's place doesn't seem to run out of liquor at the rate that Margery drinks.

If Yoshida plays dirty, Yuji might turn against her on detection. But perhaps he'll have his hands full due to either Pheles or the Balle Masque's god.

grey_moon

2007-11-11, 21:01

I don't think Ike can be a torch or Yuji would have seen it. Now Ike becoming a torch is a different matter :p

minhtam1638

2007-11-11, 21:02

I don't think Ike can be a torch or Yuji would have seen it. Now Ike becoming a torch is a different matter :p

Perhaps he was never paying attention,

Grimkill7

2007-11-11, 21:18

Perhaps he was never paying attention,

It's kinda sad to say this, but with Yuji in his current state, that would actually be quite possible.

teachopvutru

2007-11-11, 21:25

This episode was good except for... not sure how to put it but, it kinda passes by...? And I think the character design isn't as good in this episode...

Also, it's still early, but I wonder if they'll make 2 OPs for this season as well.

Say, when the title is "Ike Hayato, His Glorious Day," why do they put it that way when we're sure he's going to fail?

Excorsism

2007-11-11, 22:19

Um, if you're going to be talking about novel-specific things, put it in a spoiler tag... unless I'm misinterpreting something here.

ashlay

2007-11-12, 00:15

Oh yeah, that's self-explanatory. I was just referring to the little discussion about Ike being a torch and whatnot. Even if it isn't true, better safe than sorry. :p Excuse me if I'm being too paranoid.

I just fear of spoilers since I plan on reading the novels pretty soon.
just speculation. >,>

I mean with Hecate right there and the title being "Ike's glorious day", it doesn't seem like too much to fear for Ike's life.

grey_moon

2007-11-12, 00:17

It's kinda sad to say this, but with Yuji in his current state, that would actually be quite possible.

I can't argue with that! But I would like to point out that in S1 Ike has been specifically slated as non torch. He would have had to had been eaten at some point between early S1 and now for him to become one. Unless Yuji has lost the ability or I misinterpreted, I think that he just sees torches for what they are.

Aquifina

2007-11-12, 00:23

Two thoughts that crossed my mind while watching:
- I never thought I'd say this, but Shana looks good with glasses.
- I never thought I'd say this either, but Margery Daw is cool and mature.

The second point almost made up for the slowness of the last couple of eps for me. :)

Echoes

2007-11-12, 01:32

Slow progress aside, I really liked this episode. The humor was just right, and I enjoyed the focus on the friendship within the group. I'm getting a little impatient for the plot to thicken, since the second season lacks the kind of initial drag-you-into-it factor the first had, but that might have a lot to do with watching the show on one-episode-a-week basis as well.

d.sinclair

2007-11-12, 01:36

Another exciting installment of Slice-of-Life Shana. Huzzah, there's actually some development in this episode! Now Shana+Yoshida are...back at square one?
Honestly, though, I kind of enjoyed this one. We get some nice development going between the gang, and our beloved flame haze and Wife Material Yoshida do make some badly needed progress. It was also pretty cool seeing the "experienced onee-san" angle in Margery, but since when was she interested in anything besides getting drunk and busting Tomogara?

"I want to understand Yuuji!"
You know what? So do I. I just get the feeling when I'm watching this that the writers are conveniently shafting his character just to dig some "development" out of Shana and Yoshida. I mean, there's a limit to how dense you can get. Yoshida confessed to the guy, and he still hasn't done anything about it. They definitely skipped out on the "oh no confession awkward" scenes that should have followed, or I totally missed something in S1. It's like it never happened....
Well, whatever. I wanted to shoot myself the past two episodes but this one was strangely easy to watch.

I've been thinking about this since S1-isn't it obvious that someone likes you when they go so far as to make you a bento? Maybe it's a cultural thing that I'm totally missing out here (which I doubt), but that sort of thing never happens in American high schools, and I'm guessing it's probably at least pretty conspicuous in Japan...well, chalk another one up for Yuuji Dimwit, or should I say another example of convenience writing.

Excorsism

2007-11-12, 01:50

just speculation. >,>

I mean with Hecate right there and the title being "Ike's glorious day", it doesn't seem like too much to fear for Ike's life.

I was somewhat aware but the way the idea was presented felt like it was actually content from the novels, so yeah.. Sorry for my misinterpretation. :)

Back on topic, this episode was alright but the lack of story progression sort of makes me cringe. :(

minhtam1638

2007-11-12, 02:00

Kazumi: "I want to understand Yuji!"

You know what? So do I. I just get the feeling when I'm watching this that the writers are conveniently shafting his character just to dig some "development" out of Shana and Yoshida. I mean, there's a limit to how dense you can get. Yoshida confessed to the guy, and he still hasn't done anything about it. They definitely skipped out on the "oh no confession awkward" scenes that should have followed, or I totally missed something in S1. It's like it never happened....

Uh, okay. So Kazumi confessed to Yuji. I know Yuji cares about Kazumi to some extent, but knowing this, he's still unsure about his feelings to anyone, so how is he supposed to act toward Kazumi?

I've been thinking about this since S1-isn't it obvious that someone likes you when they go so far as to make you a bento? Maybe it's a cultural thing that I'm totally missing out here (which I doubt), but that sort of thing never happens in American high schools, and I'm guessing it's probably at least pretty conspicuous in Japan...well, chalk another one up for Yuuji Dimwit, or should I say another example of convenience writing.

Uh, that's only considering that you can cook. And Shana totally fell for what we call Japan-ization. Much like Americanization, except in Japan.

grey_moon

2007-11-12, 02:36

It is quite amusing how a battled harden vet can make such bad tactical choices in the combat known as love. I would have thought that not challenging someone at their own game is basics. Shana the lower then noob chef is trying to win Yuji's heart with cooking against Yoshida who is a grandmaster ninja kung fu shaolin master....

minhtam1638

2007-11-12, 02:48

holyman282

2007-11-12, 03:25

Say, when the title is "Ike Hayato, His Glorious Day," why do they put it that way when we're sure he's going to fail?

I wouldn't put too much faith in ep titles... I mean ep 6 was called night "before an ordeal"... Made me think that something reguarding Bal Masque was going to happen after the study session... But it turned out the ordeal was just a surprise test...........

d.sinclair

2007-11-12, 03:28

Uh, okay. So Kazumi confessed to Yuji. I know Yuji cares about Kazumi to some extent, but knowing this, he's still unsure about his feelings to anyone, so how is he supposed to act toward Kazumi?
Hmm. Where in the series do they show that Yuuji is "unsure" about anything regarding his feelings? There hasn't been any indication of what he is consciously thinking in regards to Yoshida, and he has just been blandly nice to her as always. Right now it appears as if he is totally ignoring that the confession happened. But I never got the impression from the writers that they're making him act that way as part of the plot...more like they're just being lazy. Not just about Yoshida but to the other haremettes, too: we don't get much conscious thought from Yuuji at all concerning any potential love interest. And not that he's incapable of romance; again the writers are shafting him.

Maybe I'm just frustrated that Yuuji isn't a more dynamic character. I would like SnS much more if Yuuji weren't so generic and airheaded. Seriously, make him a Kyon or something for all I care just to spice things up. Why must the humans in this show be so uninteresting??

holyman282

2007-11-12, 03:43

Hmm. Where in the series do they show that Yuuji is "unsure" about anything? There hasn't been any indication of what he is consciously thinking in regards to Yoshida, and he has just been blandly nice to her as always.

Certainly Yuji has been a closed booked even among the viewers, we get little to no insight on the inner workings of his mind and you certainly can't conclude that Yuji is "unsure about anything" but that argument also works in reverse too. So I tend to think that unless we get a more detailed insight on what Yuji's thinking, both arguments could be correct as both partys lack the evidence to prove their theory to be correct and also lack the evidence to prove the other party incorrect.

The lack of info on how Yuji thinks works as a double edged sword.

Right now it appears as if he is totally ignoring that the confession happened. But I never got the impression from the writers that they're consciously making him act that way...more like they're just being lazy.
Not just about Yoshida but to the other haremettes, too: we don't get much conscious thought from Yuuji at all concerning any potential love interest. Does he have balls???

Like i said before, you really can't come to that decision yet as we all lack evidence to how Yuji thinks.

Maybe I'm just frustrated that Yuuji isn't a more dynamic character. I would like SnS much more if Yuuji weren't the airhead that he is. Seriously, make him a Kyon or something to spice things up;

lol I doubt a Kyonish male lead would go far in this anime, the first instance he makes a sarcastic remark then Shana will probably just kill him, it helps disperse the hougo within him too.

As reguarding him as a dynamic character that really depends on your taste. If you find someone like Kyon a dynamic character (I certainly do) then you may find characters that stray from hos character profile to be boring. Obviously you also have to consider the context. Kyon's sarcastic attitude would do little to melt Shana's cold heart, in fact it'll probably harden it more. Certainly Yuji's character isn't unique but I wouldn't go so far as to call him an airhead.

why are the humans in this series so uninteresting?

Yuji's a torch by the way so technically he isn't a human:heh:

OceanBlue

2007-11-12, 08:07

Something was strange with the character art this episode.

That aside, it seemed like something happened without anything really happening. I think something needs to happen to pick the series up; it doesn't even have to be action in the sense of violence. Just something to renew my interest.

minhtam1638

2007-11-12, 08:12

Okay, what's up with the complaints for the character art? I'm not seeing it.

teachopvutru

2007-11-12, 08:30

Okay, what's up with the complaints for the character art? I'm not seeing it.

The characters don't look as good in this episode... From the preview, they look nicer in the next episode though. (though that probably doesn't answer your question... but I don't know how to put it =P)

Sinestra

2007-11-12, 09:15

So we finally got some progress with the girls and some adult advice from non other than MAgery Daw? WTF :confused: but at least it helped and even Shana has calmed down a bit and accepted things as they are and even went back to training.

So they actually gave Ike his own episode called Ike Glorious Day. Sigh we all know hes going to fail. Hoenstly Ike is the only one left out of all the events from Season 1. Kazumi has shown no interest in Ike in a romantic fashion at all she is still head over for Yuji, even if he confesses im sure she will turn him down now and only look at him later on if Yuji is clear he likes Shana and that opens a path for Ike to try again and her being more receptive because the Yuji option is not there anymore. So even if something were to happen it would feel rushed and not realistic. I dont put faith in episode titles but Slice of Life SHana is honestly starting to drag on me a bit. I still love the show but i really want to get back on track theres only so much of Days of our Shana i think we all can take.

grey_moon

2007-11-12, 10:08

I still love the show but i really want to get back on track theres only so much of Days of our Shana i think we all can take.

Shouldn't that be Days of Konoe?

Freeter

2007-11-12, 10:23

Shouldn't that be Days of Konoe?

More like The Young and the Restless :heh:

Master Chibi

2007-11-12, 10:28

I still don't understand the absurd nature of just walking Konoe to school and the 400 things Yuji (the man with a pile of rocks for a brain) does for her. If I see her tug on his shirt one more time I'm going to backhand the both of them. Instead of saying "She needs help," he should be asking, "WHY DOES SHE NEED HELP?" She's a human being, not a fucking puppy, the next thing you know Yuji's going to be cleaning up her 'little accidents' and taking her out for walks. Even with anime being as crazy as it is, I just can't suspend my belief, or sense of realism into accepting that Konoe needs this much god damn help to get around during the day. It's an absolutely horrible plot device if you ask me.

And this emo jealousy crap is done with thanks to the character who's had the least amount of time thus far, and has literally spent the entireity of said screen time on a couch, drunk of her ass? Oooookkkkkk.

Marg: Yeah, so you have to accept the feelings of the one you're in love with, then you won't have your ugly ass side leaking out.

Shana: Aight.

Yoshida. Word up.

Shana & Yoshida: Let's both accept the fact that Yuji is a fucking moron!

END EPISODE

Bah.

Sinestra

2007-11-12, 10:52

More like The Young and the Restless :heh:

Hell why not The Young and the Dumb or Guiding Konoe

KaneDragon

2007-11-12, 11:09

So we finally got some progress with the girls and some adult advice from non other than MAgery Daw? WTF :confused:
And this emo jealousy crap is done with thanks to the character who's had the least amount of time thus far, and has literally spent the entireity of said screen time on a couch, drunk of her ass? Oooookkkkkk.
This isn't the first time Margery's given love advice to Omega-chan. Remember the hot springs OVA? This shouldn't come as a surprise.

grey_moon

2007-11-12, 13:42

@Master Chibi - I bow down before you. That post was masterful :)

The whole thing about SnS in general that gets me is these sudden changes to how a character is built up. For example you will always hear me go on about the S1 Yuji at festival scene. Now here we have 2 girls who spent *beep* knows how much time angsting and being jealous and suddenly at a drop of a hat they are fine again.... What the wise drunken bum said made sense, but it wasn't that inspiring.

Sinestra

2007-11-12, 14:08

Could Margery be considered what Yoda would be like if he had large breasts a talking book and couldnt stay off the sauce?:p

Simplistic

2007-11-12, 14:57

if there is even a third season.

Kisuke06

2007-11-12, 17:33

Shakugan no Shana is just turning into a generic romance show... I'm loosing my interest.

Aquifina

2007-11-12, 17:49

Hmm. Where in the series do they show that Yuuji is "unsure" about anything regarding his feelings? There hasn't been any indication of what he is consciously thinking in regards to Yoshida, and he has just been blandly nice to her as always. Right now it appears as if he is totally ignoring that the confession happened. But I never got the impression from the writers that they're making him act that way as part of the plot...more like they're just being lazy. Not just about Yoshida but to the other haremettes, too: we don't get much conscious thought from Yuuji at all concerning any potential love interest. And not that he's incapable of romance; again the writers are shafting him.

Maybe I'm just frustrated that Yuuji isn't a more dynamic character. I would like SnS much more if Yuuji weren't so generic and airheaded. Seriously, make him a Kyon or something for all I care just to spice things up. Why must the humans in this show be so uninteresting??

Uh, okay. So Kazumi confessed to Yuji. I know Yuji cares about Kazumi to some extent, but knowing this, he's still unsure about his feelings to anyone, so how is he supposed to act toward Kazumi?

I actually think Yuuji, even with his abnormal denseness the last couple of eps., is still one of the more interesting anime leads out there. He figures out the dream sequences pretty quick early in this season, and there's an interesting conflict between him and Shana about how far she should go in testing Konoe. Him not picking up on why Shana and Kazumi were upset in ep. 4-6 was a bit lame, but I'll forgive the writers for this slip-up. And in 6, Yuuji was doing better; he was trying to disengage from Konoe, only to be sabotaged by his own congenital niceness. His reaction to Shana coming back to training was also spot-on; I think Yuuji sorta unconsciously knows that for Shana, training in a strange way is her best way of expressing affection, and instead of getting sappy on her return, he got ready to train. And in his defense, everyone has been dense the last couple of eps except Ike--you'd think Ogata would have figured out what was going on also, while Shana and Yoshida were in my view acting even more lamely than was Yuuji.

I also don't mind Yuuji's lack of action regarding Kazumi. I think Yuuji appreciates her confession, and he *does* care about her to some extent, but I think his own feelings for Shana are so unresolved that he's generally confused. I think he realizes the difficulty of the situation; remember the time in ep. 2 I think where he tried to refuse Kazumi's Bento; Ike made him accept it, which in my view was actually a mistake for all parties concerned (including the knucklehead Ike), but here again is an example of Yuuji's congenital niceness causing problems.

And I think we've gotten enough of an insight into Yuuji's head to know where his heart really lies. He accepts Shana's bento enthusiastically, right after trying to refuse Yoshida's; he's obviously disappointed when she denies the confession from season 1, which feeds into his feeling that it's "obvious" Shana doesn't see him as anything more than an esteemed comrade; and he nearly glows when Shana praises him for detecting the lame wheelie tomogara.

RiXeD

2007-11-12, 17:51

They definitely skipped out on the "oh no confession awkward" scenes that should have followed, or I totally missed something in S1. It's like it never happened....

But you know, it`s kinda obvious.

First, it`s like this in RL too. I know from autopsy that if you confess to someone and get turned down, you HAVE to foget about it and act like it never happened to not break the bonds between you and that other person.

Second, if there were "zOMG awkward" moments, communication between Kazumi and Yuuji (and Shana, and other people) would be almost impossible. As I stated above, their bond would totally be broken. I know, he hasn`t even answered her. But the lack of answer is the worst kind of refusal.

Besides, he loves Shana (or so we all think), so it`s kinda obvious he hasn`t answered her.

holyman282

2007-11-12, 19:26

I also don't mind Yuuji's lack of action regarding Kazumi. I think Yuuji appreciates her confession, and he *does* care about her to some extent, but I think his own feelings for Shana are so unresolved that he's generally confused. I think he realizes the difficulty of the situation; remember the time in ep. 2 I think where he tried to refuse Kazumi's Bento; Ike made him accept it, which in my view was actually a mistake for all parties concerned (including the knucklehead Ike), but here again is an example of Yuuji's congenital niceness causing problems.

Well Ike was trying to exhibit some sense of pride and competition.. He probably didn't want to win over Yoshida's heart by yuji feeling sorry for him...... i would tend to agree....

And I think we've gotten enough of an insight into Yuuji's head to know where his heart really lies. He accepts Shana's bento enthusiastically, right after trying to refuse Yoshida's; he's obviously disappointed when she denies the confession from season 1, which feeds into his feeling that it's "obvious" Shana doesn't see him as anything more than an esteemed comrade; and he nearly glows when Shana praises him for detecting the lame wheelie tomogara.

Yuji indeed leans more towards shana but that's probably because of the fact that having a normal relationship with a human is near impossible now..... He becomes closer to Shana realising that he may have to leave the city one day when people start to notice he doesn't age at all... That doesn't mean he doesn't have feelings for Shana, it just makes me feel that he really doesn't have alot of options, it was obviously Shana or nothing...

minhtam1638

2007-11-12, 20:38

You know, if only there was one episode in Shakugan no Shana that reminds me of Dancing with the Stars...

fuzzles

2007-11-12, 22:02

we should stop discussing the last 3 episodes and the next lets sayyy 7 I don't see a point anymore

Aquifina

2007-11-12, 22:12

Well Ike was trying to exhibit some sense of pride and competition.. He probably didn't want to win over Yoshida's heart by yuji feeling sorry for him...... i would tend to agree....

Yuji indeed leans more towards shana but that's probably because of the fact that having a normal relationship with a human is near impossible now..... He becomes closer to Shana realising that he may have to leave the city one day when people start to notice he doesn't age at all... That doesn't mean he doesn't have feelings for Shana, it just makes me feel that he really doesn't have alot of options, it was obviously Shana or nothing...

Well, I think Yuuji should stop accepting the bento, because it strikes me as inappropriate, unless he were actually dating Kazumi. Maybe making lunches for non-family members is ordinary in Japanese high schools, but it strikes me as way too loaded a form of interaction, and it gives Yoshida false hope. That was, after all, Ike's point in season 1. Now that I think about it, though Yoshida would probably be really upset by this, and it's not like she has any other way of showing her affection for Yuuji--unlike Shana who always has training and fighting to fall back on.

Anyhow, regardless, what needs to happen eventually is Shana needs to be honest about her feelings, and Yuuji just needs to choose her over Kazumi. Presumably that'll happen at the end of the series.

I think you're understating Yuuji's affections for Shana. It's clear he finds her attractive as early as ep. 4 in season 1, and before he finds out about the reiji maigo, there's all the business about meeting a girl who would always remember him. And then there was the kiss he clearly wanted, but didn't get during the twins arc. All of this is well before he decided to leave the city.

teachopvutru

2007-11-12, 22:33

I think you're understating Yuuji's affections for Shana. It's clear he finds her attractive as early as ep. 4 in season 1, and before he finds out about the reiji maigo, there's all the business about meeting a girl who would always remember him. And then there was the kiss he clearly wanted, but didn't get during the twins arc. All of this is well before he decided to leave the city.

Haha... sweet memory. I maranthoned Shana season 1 at the end of winter this year and was watching that arc wondering the whole time what she would do when that arc ended XD ... although I was pretty sure that wouldn't happen =/

DeotoxSlayer

2007-11-12, 23:21

serenade_beta

2007-11-13, 00:39

We'll at least episode 7 will end the Konoe Fumina Arc, the next Arc is supposed to be about Margery Daw wonder wats gunna happen in tht ARc, though wat I'm really wonderin is when they're actually gunna include more stuff from the novels, and Pheles in season 2.

Nothing is said to end her arc, but there will be different focuses.

And from what it seems:

There will be a Denizen she knew long ago, and it isn't Pheles.

Anh_Minh

2007-11-13, 01:19

minhtam1638

2007-11-13, 01:52

Didn't he want to refuse the lunches at one point, but then Ike dissuaded him? I guess they thought Yoshida would be too hurt.
Well, pretty much, Kazumi's just an emo disaster waiting to happen.

Tokkan

2007-11-13, 03:20

Nothing is said to end her arc, but there will be different focuses.

And from what it seems:

There will be a Denizen she knew long ago, and it isn't Pheles.

Ahaha.

Yeah, well. If we consider this Konoe arc to just be this focus on her, then it has ended already. But I expect her to stick around in the background until a certain... "event" happens in the latter part of the series. And then she'll be revealed as Hecate.

holyman282

2007-11-13, 04:10

Well, I think Yuuji should stop accepting the bento, because it strikes me as inappropriate, unless he were actually dating Kazumi. Maybe making lunches for non-family members is ordinary in Japanese high schools, but it strikes me as way too loaded a form of interaction, and it gives Yoshida false hope. That was, after all, Ike's point in season 1. Now that I think about it, though Yoshida would probably be really upset by this, and it's not like she has any other way of showing her affection for Yuuji--unlike Shana who always has training and fighting to fall back on.

Anyhow, regardless, what needs to happen eventually is Shana needs to be honest about her feelings, and Yuuji just needs to choose her over Kazumi. Presumably that'll happen at the end of the series.

I think you're understating Yuuji's affections for Shana. It's clear he finds her attractive as early as ep. 4 in season 1, and before he finds out about the reiji maigo, there's all the business about meeting a girl who would always remember him. And then there was the kiss he clearly wanted, but didn't get during the twins arc. All of this is well before he decided to leave the city.

Yeah i'm probably understating their relationship, but I personally find that though now Shana and Yuji's relationship are obvious.. The deciding factor for Yuji's initial attraction was undoubtedly Shana's unique entrance, the sense of mystery surrounding her and the fact that he is a torch.... Off course curiosity eventually turned into love for Yuji but the initial attraction were a combination of chance and circumstance. That's why i say that it's Shana or nothing. I'm thinking would Yuji feel more attracted to Yoshida if she were to confess to him before he realises he's a torch? (which consequently is also when he met with Shana..) Really the writers never gave any room for compromise, Yoshida never had a chance.

KrebMarkt

2007-11-13, 04:48

Hi,

I'm a newbie but i still want to participate.

During the Konoe Arc there were a lot of close up plans on the Konoe's bracelet. I guess this is an Hougu she is using to pass for a human.

minhtam1638

2007-11-13, 05:02

Hi,

I'm a newbie but i still want to participate.

During the Konoe Arc there were a lot of close up plans on the Konoe's bracelet. I guess this is an Hougu she is using to pass for a human.

Welcome.

We discussed the possibilities of the bracelet in the Episode 5 thread. Unfortunately, none of us can be too sure.

KrebMarkt

2007-11-13, 09:04

lua thien

2007-11-13, 14:36

Sure there something amiss with this bracelet because it appeared too many times already and they could spare a lot of time drawing Konoe without it.

Guess all we have to wait is that bracelet to be removed.

Wouldn't Yuji have sensed that the bracelet was a Hougu? Konoe kept tugging him with her right hand where the bracelet hangs on her right wrist.

Hougu items might not be the only artifacts in the Guze. The bracelet might be some sort of suppression device of a different nature.

ashlay

2007-11-13, 14:40

Wouldn't Yuji have sensed that the bracelet was a Hougu? Konoe kept tugging him with her right hand where the bracelet hangs on her right wrist.

Hougu items might not be the only artifacts in the Guze. The bracelet might be some sort of suppression device of a different nature.
Yuji's never sensed a Hougu before. At best he's noticed Crimson Denizens.

no reason to discount it being some sort of Hougu, though of course it may indeed be something else.

minhtam1638

2007-11-13, 17:18

Wouldn't Yuji have sensed that the bracelet was a Hougu? Konoe kept tugging him with her right hand where the bracelet hangs on her right wrist.

Hougu items might not be the only artifacts in the Guze. The bracelet might be some sort of suppression device of a different nature.

Had Yuji been able to sense Hougus in the first place, he would have already known that Kazumi was holding one back at the Misago Festival arc.

holyman282

2007-11-13, 17:28

Yeah Yuji never had the ability to sense Hougo... Why do you think Hougo are so rare in the world of Shana? Because they are hard to find, among the millions of torches.

lua thien

2007-11-13, 19:31

Had Yuji been able to sense Hougus in the first place, he would have already known that Kazumi was holding one back at the Misago Festival arc.

Well, he did once he took it in his hand. I guess he could detect a Hougu only upon physical contact?

ashlay

2007-11-13, 19:56

Well, he did once he took it in his hand. I guess he could detect a Hougu only upon physical contact?
I think that was more of a case of Yuji using his momentary deduction skills.

it's this old monocle looking thing and Kazumi just freaked out when she looked into it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it was something special related to the one thing about Yuji that would freak Kazumi out. :confused:

Bonta Kun

2007-11-13, 21:25

I think that was more of a case of Yuji using his momentary deduction skills.

it's this old monocle looking thing and Kazumi just freaked out when she looked into it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it was something special related to the one thing about Yuji that would freak Kazumi out. :confused:

yep odd how he's able to put alot of things together that most of the others didn't think of, but this season he's as thick as a plank of wood:eyebrow: maybe all that train is making him lose brain cells more than usual:p

ashlay

2007-11-13, 22:39

yep odd how he's able to put alot of things together that most of the others didn't think of, but this season he's as thick as a plank of wood:eyebrow: maybe all that train is making him lose brain cells more than usual:p
its just because the last few episodes have been relationship material, and Yuji has always been bad at that.

minhtam1638

2007-11-14, 01:00

its just because the last few episodes have been relationship material, and Yuji has always been bad at that.

Too true. And I don't want to see the excuse where Yuji sensed love out of Yukari. To me, Yukari made it too obvious.

ashlay

2007-11-14, 01:30

Too true. And I don't want to see the excuse where Yuji sensed love out of Yukari. To me, Yukari made it too obvious.
right, she went right ahead with "I was wondering if Ike had a girlfriend or not." and even then it took Yuji like 10-20 seconds to get it.

Shana's the forceful one in this relationship. (unless Yuji suddenly goes crazy or something...Shiki Tohno anyone?) She's going to have to go ahead and tell Yuji straight up or he'll just keep assuming Shana means it when she tells him she "just" respects him or "just" is happy with how he's doing. Too bad she's apparently still figuring that out for herself. >_< (damnit, can't we like...I dunno have one of them almost die again?)

minhtam1638

2007-11-14, 01:48

right, she went right ahead with "I was wondering if Ike had a girlfriend or not." and even then it took Yuji like 10-20 seconds to get it.

Shana's the forceful one in this relationship. (unless Yuji suddenly goes crazy or something...Shiki Tohno anyone?) She's going to have to go ahead and tell Yuji straight up or he'll just keep assuming Shana means it when she tells him she "just" respects him or "just" is happy with how he's doing. Too bad she's apparently still figuring that out for herself. >_< (damnit, can't we like...I dunno have one of them almost die again?)

I believe the 17th novel should handle that.

grey_moon

2007-11-14, 03:08

right, she went right ahead with "I was wondering if Ike had a girlfriend or not." and even then it took Yuji like 10-20 seconds to get it.

Actually the Yuji of S2 would probably not even noticed she asked it. Instead he correctly knew that she was interested in Ike and did something about it.

Anyway using just that one scene as yard stick for Yuji's awareness is a bit out of context. Personally I think it is far better suited to the argument does Yuji understand romance.

minhtam1638

2007-11-14, 03:48

Actually the Yuji of S2 would probably not even noticed she asked it. Instead he correctly knew that she was interested in Ike and did something about it.

Anyway using just that one scene as yard stick for Yuji's awareness is a bit out of context. Personally I think it is far better suited to the argument does Yuji understand romance.

You're kidding me, right? Just to clarify, we knew that Yuji knew Yukari liked Hayato, but we don't know of the conversation between the gasp and the planning of the rendezvous in Episode 1, so we can't exactly say that Yuji picked it up mere moments after Yukari acted awkwardly in asking where Hayato was.

grey_moon

2007-11-14, 04:59

You're kidding me, right? Just to clarify, we knew that Yuji knew Yukari liked Hayato, but we don't know of the conversation between the gasp and the planning of the rendezvous in Episode 1, so we can't exactly say that Yuji picked it up mere moments after Yukari acted awkwardly in asking where Hayato was.

How about when his eyes popped wide open with recognition, that showed he recognised Yukari's interest in Ike. Him planning to get Yukari and Ike together shows his ability to act on the romantic recognition. They are two separate acts that are linked together. Use it how ever u like, but to me it shows that S1 epi1 Yuji is capable of recognising romantic inclinations in other people and also capable of acting upon it. Time really doesn't have an issue with that. In S2 we have had 6 episodes of Yuji acting as dense as possible in regards to girls romantic feelings. Sure Shana's can be dismissed because of her attitude (yeah right), but Yoshida's....

holyman282

2007-11-14, 05:44

minhtam1638

2007-11-14, 05:47

As for Yuji and his perception in everything romance, perhaps he's just one of those characters that can see other people's romantic interests clearly but when it comes to himself, it's unclear for him....

It's just watching a game of chess from the sidelines, you can see alot of moves that would be missed by the person playing the actual game. It's all about perspective.

Oh, man, I wanted dibs on that statement!

But I'm in agreement here.

grey_moon

2007-11-14, 05:58

Like they said, Yukari made it pretty obvious that she liked Ike... Asking whether he had a girlfriend...

As for Yuji and his perception in everything romance, perhaps he's just one of those characters that can see other people's romantic interests clearly but when it comes to himself, it's unclear for him....

Could mean other things. Could be Yukari trying to strike up a conversation with Yuji, some people do go about the long way and start talking about their targets friends which can cause no end of confusion. How many stories or films have you seen when the target ends up trying to help the girl/boy because of that scenario? Not uncommon neh? In this case Yuji guessed/knew right.

But the main issue is you have to make up a reason for the difference in Yuji S1 and Yuji S2. As soon as the viewer needs to make up excuses for the character's actions that in my opinion shows bad writing skills. Some stories are based on the viewer's imagination filling in the gaps, but SnS isn't one of them.

holyman282

2007-11-14, 08:08

Could mean other things. Could be Yukari trying to strike up a conversation with Yuji, some people do go about the long way and start talking about their targets friends which can cause no end of confusion. How many stories or films have you seen when the target ends up trying to help the girl/boy because of that scenario? Not uncommon neh? In this case Yuji guessed/knew right.

But the main issue is you have to make up a reason for the difference in Yuji S1 and Yuji S2. As soon as the viewer needs to make up excuses for the character's actions that in my opinion shows bad writing skills. Some stories are based on the viewer's imagination filling in the gaps, but SnS isn't one of them.

It's not really a reason. In real life people's actions can or cannot be explained by mere observation. Yuji's character and what's going on in his mind is still pretty vague even for us viewers. I said this before but we as a audience have been given as little information about what's going on in Yuji's head as the characters in the actual anime. Yuji is still a closed book and exuses or not, if we haven't been given much insight into his inner workings, that means you really can't conclude or judge his actions by mere observation alone.

Apart from a couple of moments where we hear what he is thinking, Yuji is basically unkown to us.. Especially in reguards to what he truly thinks about Shana. We get hints here and there from his actions, but unless we truly get some info from the source itself (his mind), you really can't conclude whether Yuji's actions are inconsistent or just have yet to be explained.. give the series more time, we're only on the 6th ep.

grey_moon

2007-11-14, 08:20

we're only on the 6th ep.

Episode 6 in season 2. Why do people conveniently ignore 26 episodes of S1 in their defence of the consistency of Yuji?

S1 has plenty of scenes where Yuji isn't dumb to other peoples feelings or situations. All those add up and then S2 basically has him going all stoopid, to a point where his friend is going to him to be more aware. Kinda like throwing Yuji's little tantrum in the arcade back in his face neh?

Anh_Minh

2007-11-14, 08:46

ashlay

2007-11-14, 13:16

In S1, I'd say that he knew Shana liked him, but not how. As a friend? Or as something more?

And he knew Yoshida liked him, too, but didn't want to deal with it. He was waiting for Ike to snoop in and solve everything by seducing Yoshida.

In S2, I have no idea what he thinks. Maybe he's blind to the girls' jealousy because to him, Konoe is a puppy, not a potential mate.
He knows Yoshida likes him, and wants to be friendly with her, but he can't really deal with such a possibility due to aformentioned being dead and leaving the city thing. Seems to me he basically views konoe in the same way he views her; it's just the Konoe is actually demanding, an Yuji is willing to oblige.

and as for Shana, its the same thing as always. In fact it's the exact same thing as Yuji trying to get a "present" from Shana back during the twins arc: Yuji makes advances to Shana and Shana rejects them, and so Yuji sits there unsure of what to do, since he's just a nice (read:selfless [read:stupid]) guy and can never really force his feelings onto other people, and instead just lets others force their feelings onto him. Shana acts weird, but it's mostly just Chigusa who see's the dere side, while Yuji is almost always stuck with the tsun.

Yuji hasn't changed at all, and Shana hasn't changed at all: its really inevitable, because for Yuji there's not another woman in the entire world other than Shana, because quite simply no one else is going to remember him and no one else is going to be safe around him. And for Shana, Yuji is the first man in hers, and with the life of a flame haze being what it is, that pretty much makes Yuji the only one. But at the end of the day it comes to same problem that both have had since episode 1: neither can just go ahead and admit they love the other, because Yuji isn't aggressive enough and because Shana isn't honest enough. So yeah, I can understand if people are unhappy with us watching the same situation until this story ends, but again, be clear about what's making you unhappy. Everything's the same as it was in season 1, and will probably continue to be so for the majority of this season as well.

minhtam1638

2007-11-14, 14:02

holyman282

2007-11-14, 15:47

Episode 6 in season 2. Why do people conveniently ignore 26 episodes of S1 in their defence of the consistency of Yuji?

S1 has plenty of scenes where Yuji isn't dumb to other peoples feelings or situations. All those add up and then S2 basically has him going all stoopid, to a point where his friend is going to him to be more aware. Kinda like throwing Yuji's little tantrum in the arcade back in his face neh?

isn't dumb to other's feelings maybe, but I think you've ignored my previously stated argument. That is, we don't have a deep insight into Yuji's head and hence his actions and reasons for them are quite vague...

grey_moon

2007-11-14, 18:38

isn't dumb to other's feelings maybe, but I think you've ignored my previously stated argument. That is, we don't have a deep insight into Yuji's head and hence his actions and reasons for them are quite vague...

I haven't ignored your previous argument, and actually your post about knowing Yoshida likes him backs up my point. See there he is making decisions based on a persons feelings taking in consideration of how their situation affects it. He thoughtfully did not reciprocate her feelings in S1. <- Not dumb, not vague and more importantly a defining moment in the show about Yuji's thoughts and personality. In S2 he dangles her around for what ever reason be it free food or just the thrill of having 2 girls fight over him.

Sure he is a dumb nice guy who doesn't force his feelings on others, but that can only be taken in the sense of romance as wasn't the whole Shana thing him forcing his pov on her? But even in romance in S1 he didn't go the flow with Yoshida even though it looked like he liked her.

If you can't see the difference of Yuji in S1 compared to in S2 then that is up to you, but in S1 there has been plenty of moments when we get to see what was going on in his head. That is why we know about his angsting about not being useful to Shana, his worry about being in the city endangering people around him etc.

In terms of romance you yourself has pointed out how he has made positive actions towards Shana to be knocked back. That combined with his actions in epi 1 and 2 of S1, I interpret that as him being knowing about and being interested in romance. In S2 he starts off in the same way thinking about Shana only for us to be hit by a retcon and Yuji going all dumb.

The problem with S2 is what insight into Yuji? S1 I personally got plenty, S2 there is none that can be easily explained right now without a plot hole. He is acting overly unobservant of his situation, he doesn't seem to notice or care much about how Yoshida and Shana are obviously in pain over his actions. Sure maybe they are acting over the top too, but isn't that another sign of bad writing? Lots of people acting over the top just to build up a scenario?

minhtam1638

2007-11-14, 19:16

I haven't ignored your previous argument, and actually your post about knowing Yoshida likes him backs up my point. See there he is making decisions based on a persons feelings taking in consideration of how their situation affects it. He thoughtfully did not reciprocate her feelings in S1. <- Not dumb, not vague and more importantly a defining moment in the show about Yuji's thoughts and personality. In S2 he dangles her around for what ever reason be it free food or just the thrill of having 2 girls fight over him.

Sure he is a dumb nice guy who doesn't force his feelings on others, but that can only be taken in the sense of romance as wasn't the whole Shana thing him forcing his pov on her? But even in romance in S1 he didn't go the flow with Yoshida even though it looked like he liked her.

If you can't see the difference of Yuji in S1 compared to in S2 then that is up to you, but in S1 there has been plenty of moments when we get to see what was going on in his head. That is why we know about his angsting about not being useful to Shana, his worry about being in the city endangering people around him etc.

In terms of romance you yourself has pointed out how he has made positive actions towards Shana to be knocked back. That combined with his actions in epi 1 and 2 of S1, I interpret that as him being knowing about and being interested in romance. In S2 he starts off in the same way thinking about Shana only for us to be hit by a retcon and Yuji going all dumb.

The problem with S2 is what insight into Yuji? S1 I personally got plenty, S2 there is none that can be easily explained right now without a plot hole. He is acting overly unobservant of his situation, he doesn't seem to notice or care much about how Yoshida and Shana are obviously in pain over his actions. Sure maybe they are acting over the top too, but isn't that another sign of bad writing? Lots of people acting over the top just to build up a scenario?

Isn't having the reader/viewer conjure ideas and conclusions based on "missing" information the true essence of storywriting?

ashlay

2007-11-14, 19:23

The problem with S2 is what insight into Yuji? S1 I personally got plenty, S2 there is none that can be easily explained right now without a plot hole. He is acting overly unobservant of his situation, he doesn't seem to notice or care much about how Yoshida and Shana are obviously in pain over his actions. Sure maybe they are acting over the top too, but isn't that another sign of bad writing? Lots of people acting over the top just to build up a scenario?
see, but we're the only ones seeing the pain.

Yuji saw absolutely nothing from Yoshida, just that she wasn't around at lunch. And even then he was still getting lunches from her. And again, when it comes down to it, he doesn't really care about Yoshida. He's not going to freak out because she's suddenly not imposing herself on him.

And Shana? What, you suddenly forget what happened at the end of last season? remember Shana being jealous over Yuji saying he was leaving to protect the humans in Misaki City? Yuji didn't figure out Shana wanted to hear "I want to go with you" there. Where's Yuji figuring out Shana is jealous of Kazumi? What exactly about this situation makes Yuji somehow "dumber"? Yes, there's a plot hole, which was Yuji not hearing Shana. (and that's not even really a plot hole, it's just kinda lame) But assuming you accept that, and that Yuji and Shana haven't moved to a next stage in their relationship because of that, nothing and I do mean nothing else is a plot hole. Yuji still ends up being nice to girls, (and people in general for that matter) Shana still ends up moping in places he can't see her. And after this episode we've moved from Yuji thinking "well, Shana has some problem with Konoe, and she's not showing up to practice, I should find out what it is" to "well, Shana is getting along with Konoe now, and that only took a few days, I guess it wasn't as big a problem as I thought."

At least in terms of characterization, its not bad writing at all. now if you want to argue its bad writing in terms of plot, be my guest.

darktruth

2007-11-14, 20:16

his worry about being in the city endangering people around him etc.

:p That makes me wonder how he's going to break the news to his mom if it does eventuate in him leaving the city (provided she doesn't become a torch herself :heh:).

minhtam1638

2007-11-14, 20:37

:p That makes me wonder how he's going to break the news to his mom if it does eventuate in him leaving the city (provided she doesn't become a torch herself :heh:).

Oh, that will be easy.

Yuji: Kazan, Shana and I have applied for a study abroad program in France."
Chigusa: Oh, really? Now, you two have fun!

Masanori Ota

2007-11-14, 21:15

Lulz.

Just checking, will this season of Shana be 24 episodes too, or 12?

minhtam1638

2007-11-14, 21:29

Lulz.

Just checking, will this season of Shana be 24 episodes too, or 12?

It's 24 MINIMUM. There might be more.

Aquifina

2007-11-14, 22:10

He knows Yoshida likes him, and wants to be friendly with her, but he can't really deal with such a possibility due to aformentioned being dead and leaving the city thing. Seems to me he basically views konoe in the same way he views her; it's just the Konoe is actually demanding, an Yuji is willing to oblige.

and as for Shana, its the same thing as always. In fact it's the exact same thing as Yuji trying to get a "present" from Shana back during the twins arc: Yuji makes advances to Shana and Shana rejects them, and so Yuji sits there unsure of what to do, since he's just a nice (read:selfless [read:stupid]) guy and can never really force his feelings onto other people, and instead just lets others force their feelings onto him. Shana acts weird, but it's mostly just Chigusa who see's the dere side, while Yuji is almost always stuck with the tsun.

Yuji hasn't changed at all, and Shana hasn't changed at all: its really inevitable, because for Yuji there's not another woman in the entire world other than Shana, because quite simply no one else is going to remember him and no one else is going to be safe around him. And for Shana, Yuji is the first man in hers, and with the life of a flame haze being what it is, that pretty much makes Yuji the only one. But at the end of the day it comes to same problem that both have had since episode 1: neither can just go ahead and admit they love the other, because Yuji isn't aggressive enough and because Shana isn't honest enough. So yeah, I can understand if people are unhappy with us watching the same situation until this story ends, but again, be clear about what's making you unhappy. Everything's the same as it was in season 1, and will probably continue to be so for the majority of this season as well.

Very well said.

I think this was all highlighted by the resolution at the end of this ep. Only Yoshida got Margery's comments directly, because they only really applied to Yoshida--the whole business of unrequited love and all that. Then Shana gets the advice secondhand, and at the end of the ep., she says, in what's supremely ironic for the viewer, that she wants to truly understand Yuuji's feelings. Of course, we all know that Yuji likes her, but it's clear that Shana remains completely mystified, in the same way that Yuji doesn't know about Shana's feelings.

What I also noticed was how indifferent Yuji was to poor Kazumi. Yuji knows Shana's upset, and is concerned about it, even if he's rather lamely perplexed. But poor Yoshida's reaction is barely commented on, and when he does notice her unhappiness, he spectacularly misreads it. I also thought Margery's comments about unrequited love as especially telling--poor Yoshida, an interesting character and sweet girl, but she'll never win over the emotionally inept, occasionally abusive, but supremely competent in all things Flame Haze, Shana.

I also think you're right that no one should expect too much "resolution" and "progress" in Shana and Yuji's relationship, until the very end of the season. That being said, I do think there's been some progress, although nothing really touching on the core issues. Yuji, for example, actually figures out that Shana skipped out on practice to make a bento for him, without her telling him. I don't think he would have figured that out in S1. Furthermore, in the reboot on the confession from S1, the premise of S2 it seems is that Yuji couldn't hear the confession. Yet he seems to have some awareness of what Shana said. This can be explained by a mix of lip-reading, and some degree of intuition on Yuji's part of what Shana's true feelings are. It's not enough to erase doubt, and the conscious idea does after Shana's denial, but somewhere in Yuji's well-meaning and romantically oblivious skull, I think he knows what's going on.

Shana also does a better job encouraging Yuji in training and other matters--compare the post-Margery eps in S1 where Yuji becomes completely demoralized. And Shana *is* less pointlessly possessive and jealous; now she gets along okay with both Konoe and Yoshida. She's even friends with the latter now.

Aquifina

2007-11-14, 22:13

Oh, that will be easy.

Yuji: Kazan, Shana and I have applied for a study abroad program in France."
Chigusa: Oh, really? Now, you two have fun!

I kinda wonder if Chigusa knows a lot more than she lets on--for example, that she has some knowledge about the Crimson world.

That being said, if there was any teenager a mother could completely trust, it would be Yuji.

KaneDragon

2007-11-14, 22:23

Haha, Chigusa is actually a Crimson Lord--she's just suppressing her power level. :p

*quietly writes off this third of the series to useless filler*

Aquifina

2007-11-14, 22:29

At least in terms of characterization, its not bad writing at all. now if you want to argue its bad writing in terms of plot, be my guest.

In my opinion, everything in this series is subordinate to characterization--the action, the plot, the relationships, everything. And although there's character development, especially for Shana who goes from impassive unemotional flame haze to emotionally frustrated and head-over-heels-in-love flame haze, the characters are all at some basic level static. Yuji is always the nice guy who's intellectually sharp in everything but romantic dealings concerning himself; Shana is always the testy badass warrior; Kazumi is always the nice nurturing type who cooks well; etc. They get put in different situations, they end up having to deal with one another, etc., but for me at least, the characters always remain roughly the same.

And that's something I like about this series, mainly because I find the characters interesting. The angst lately has been overdone, and I wish we'd go to a proper action arc soon, but I'm still enjoying the series. I think a lot of the frustration for a lot of people is the issue of whether or not Yuji's character is consistently drawn (on that, I can see the complaint, but at the end, I'm okay for the most part with the writers here), and whether or not there's been *progress* in the plot--i.e. have Shana and Yuji advanced to the obvious end point of being a real "couple." I'll be horribly disappointed if we don't *eventually* get there, but because I don't expect the series to consistently move in a progressive and linear fashion, because of its ferocious focus on characterization, I think that makes me a lot more patient with the pacing. But I think I can understand the complaints.

To each their own, I suppose.

grey_moon

2007-11-14, 22:39

And Shana? What, you suddenly forget what happened at the end of last season? remember Shana being jealous over Yuji saying he was leaving to protect the humans in Misaki City? Yuji didn't figure out Shana wanted to hear "I want to go with you" there. Where's Yuji figuring out Shana is jealous of Kazumi? What exactly about this situation makes Yuji somehow "dumber"?

It has already been pointed out many times that Yuji has a tough time dealing with what Shana wants because of the rebukes she keeps throwing his way, gosh you defenders of Yuji consistency can't have it both ways! But lets look at that in the context of him angsting over how he was starting to believe that Shana just wants to destroy him to protect the hougu. He's got a pretty good reason to get it wrong that time doesn't he? Also keep in mind he did work out what she wanted in the end when he told her that he already decided a long time ago that he wanted to leave with her.

Yes, there's a plot hole, which was Yuji not hearing Shana. (and that's not even really a plot hole, it's just kinda lame) But assuming you accept that, and that Yuji and Shana haven't moved to a next stage in their relationship because of that, nothing and I do mean nothing else is a plot hole. Yuji still ends up being nice to girls, (and people in general for that matter) Shana still ends up moping in places he can't see her. And after this episode we've moved from Yuji thinking "well, Shana has some problem with Konoe, and she's not showing up to practice, I should find out what it is" to "well, Shana is getting along with Konoe now, and that only took a few days, I guess it wasn't as big a problem as I thought."

My issues have nothing to do with the Yuji x Shana relationship, I just think Yuji is inconsistent with the way he has been portrayed throughout S1. If he was written as a dumb nice harem guy throughout the show then that is fine, but with SnS1 I never thought that and with S2 not only do I think it but I notice how lots of people are now defending him because he is a dumb nice harem guy.

Also in regards to them all getting over the Konoe issue, isn't it kinda a sudden fix. Wow they had a laugh with her and Margery gave Yoshida a one liner and now suddenly everything is great again. Lets just forget all that un-naturally high jealousy for the last few episodes shall we?

holyman282

2007-11-14, 22:59

My issues have nothing to do with the Yuji x Shana relationship, I just think Yuji is inconsistent with the way he has been portrayed throughout S1. If he was written as a dumb nice harem guy throughout the show then that is fine, but with SnS1 I never thought that and with S2 not only do I think it but I notice how lots of people are now defending him because he is a dumb nice harem guy.

Well from what you've discussed so far about Yuji's inconsistency, it's usually based on his lack of perceptive powers in terms of his romantic radar. This reguardless of whether it concerns the YujixShana relationship still inextricably ties the two together.

I'm not really a Yuji defender but I just find that although we've gotten insight into Yuji from his actions like you said, actions alone can still be deceiving... unless we get some sort of soliloquy ( or something like a dream sequence or anything that shows what exactly he's thinking) concluding that he's incosistent is over pushing the boundaries.

Also in regards to them all getting over the Konoe issue, isn't it kinda a sudden fix. Wow they had a laugh with her and Margery gave Yoshida a one liner and now suddenly everything is great again. Lets just forget all that un-naturally high jealousy for the last few episodes shall we?

Not really a sudden fix considering that Yuji's and Konoe's relationship wasn't romantic to start off with. The angst was caused by a misunderstanding and as such, it was fixed quite fast even if the misunderstanding wasn't cleared. Margery's advice was actually quite potent, "to know more about Yuji".. If Shana indeed knew more about Yuji, she'd realise that Yuji does not see Konoe in a romantic manner whatsoever. Basically it's about knowing the truth behind a situation before coming to unjustified conclusions.

Also considering they've built Yoshida and Shana's relationship over 2 ep, (which at first I thought was too long) I've finally realised that it's to justify Shana's acceptance of Yoshida advice (despite it coming from a secondary source). The trust Shana and Yoshida built up over there angst of YujixKonoe, was explained this ep and should make everyone wonder whether all the other supposed inconsistencies will have a certain reason behind them.

d.sinclair

2007-11-14, 23:08

I'm not really a Yuji defender but I just find that although we've gotten insight into Yuji from his actions like you said, actions alone can still be deceiving... unless we get some sort of soliloquy ( or something like a dream sequence or anything that shows what exactly he's thinking) concluding that he's incosistent is over pushing the boundaries.
Good point. But I think the fact that we don't know whether Yuuji is being inconsistent or not is in itself a bad thing. I think it's clumsily done character development to keep one character static in order to develop the others.

Also considering they've built Yoshida and Shana's relationship over 2 ep, (which at first I thought was too long) I've finally realised that it's to justify Shana's acceptance of Yoshida advice (despite it coming from a secondary source).
I don't think the anime is justified if you got that info from another source; a work should be able to stand up on its own merits. If the anime makes it seem too long, it's too long.

grey_moon

2007-11-14, 23:14

Well from what you've discussed so far about Yuji's inconsistency, it's usually based on his lack of perceptive powers in terms of his romantic radar. This reguardless of whether it concerns the YujixShana relationship still inextricably ties the two together.

I'm not really a Yuji defender but I just find that although we've gotten insight into Yuji from his actions like you said, actions alone can still be deceiving... unless we get some sort of soliloquy ( or something like a dream sequence or anything that shows what exactly he's thinking) concluding that he's incosistent is over pushing the boundaries.

Both fair points, I guess it is about our perception and interpretation as a viewer. TBH I don't mind the retcon so much now, as I find it has been over shadowed by the whole level the dumb romantic side of Yuji has been recently displayed. Maybe that is the issue, as that card wasn't really shown is S1, and since they are exploring it a whole lot more in S2 to me it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Not really a sudden fix considering that Yuji's and Konoe's relationship wasn't romantic to start off with. The angst was caused by a misunderstanding and as such, it was fixed quite fast even if the misunderstanding wasn't cleared. Margery's advice was actually quite potent, "to know more about Yuji".. If Shana indeed knew more about Yuji, she'd realise that Yuji does not see Konoe in a romantic manner whatsoever. Basically it's about knowing the truth behind a situation before coming to unjustified conclusions.

Also considering they've built Yoshida and Shana's relationship over 2 ep, (which at first I thought was too long) I've finally realised that it's to justify Shana's acceptance of Yoshida advice (despite it coming from a secondary source). The trust Shana and Yoshida built up over there angst of YujixKonoe, was explained this ep and should make everyone wonder whether all the other supposed inconsistencies will have a certain reason behind them.

That is a nice pov on the Shana and Yoshida bonding, even though I find it the most freaky type of bonding possible... For me the whole issue of their jealously was because Konoe was trying to monopolise Yuji's time, and Yuji was accepting that monopoly at the cost of spending time with them. Well the last part was self imposed by the girls in a way. I would have expected some resolution towards that, for example one of the girls hearing Yuji trying to stop walking Konoe to school. Instead Shana gets wet with Konoe and gets laughed at :twitch: I was expecting her to pop a cog there. Yoshida gets some advice from Margery which she passes on to Shana (good point you make there) and suddenly everything is hunky dory... Well to be honest I can't really judge this yet as I haven't seen how Shana and Yoshida acts when they see Konoe grabbing Yuji's shirt again.....

ashlay

2007-11-14, 23:22

My issues have nothing to do with the Yuji x Shana relationship, I just think Yuji is inconsistent with the way he has been portrayed throughout S1. If he was written as a dumb nice harem guy throughout the show then that is fine, but with SnS1 I never thought that and with S2 not only do I think it but I notice how lots of people are now defending him because he is a dumb nice harem guy.
alright, if you're going to say that, I want you tell me what scenes exactly in season 1 don't match up with the character you think he's become in season 2, because clearly this overall reference back thing isn't working.

Also in regards to them all getting over the Konoe issue, isn't it kinda a sudden fix. Wow they had a laugh with her and Margery gave Yoshida a one liner and now suddenly everything is great again. Lets just forget all that un-naturally high jealousy for the last few episodes shall we?
well, I think you've basically answered you're own question. it is an unnaturally high jealousy based off a false understanding. Actually spending time with Konoe quickly reveals to Shana that she's not some snake woman, and that this extreme fear of god knows what in Shana's head is in fact ridiculous. Shana's already 'cured' before she goes up to the roof with Yoshida (the little conversation in the classroom reveals that), the lines are just a band aid to make sure Shana doesn't fall into such jealous fits again. Think of it as Yoshida simply putting something Shana has already started to figure out on her own into words (wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes:), which is why Shana quietly listens, immediately applies it to the current situation with Konoe and Yuji, and only acts surprised when Yoshida says she told Shana because she wanted to be fair.

holyman282

2007-11-14, 23:48

Good point. But I think the fact that we don't know whether Yuuji is being inconsistent or not is in itself a bad thing. I think it's clumsily done character development to keep one character static in order to develop the others.

Well sometimes not knowing something is more exciting then having a crystal clear insight on all aspects of a character. I would consider the lack of insight into Yuji more of a intended move by the writers to incite some mystery into his character and keep us guessing as to what the basis of his actions really is.

I don't know about you, but a character without any secrets or at least a few skeletons in their closets would be quite dull.:heh:

That is a nice pov on the Shana and Yoshida bonding, even though I find it the most freaky type of bonding possible... For me the whole issue of their jealously was because Konoe was trying to monopolise Yuji's time, and Yuji was accepting that monopoly at the cost of spending time with them. Well the last part was self imposed by the girls in a way. I would have expected some resolution towards that, for example one of the girls hearing Yuji trying to stop walking Konoe to school. Instead Shana gets wet with Konoe and gets laughed at :twitch: I was expecting her to pop a cog there. Yoshida gets some advice from Margery which she passes on to Shana (good point you make there) and suddenly everything is hunky dory... Well to be honest I can't really judge this yet as I haven't seen how Shana and Yoshida acts when they see Konoe grabbing Yuji's shirt again.....

All things considered I doubt it was because Konoe was monopolising their time with Yuji.. Yoshida for example, the introduction of Konoe probably gave her more chances to be with Yuji as she was picked as the other person to look after Konoe.. It also gives her a reason to walk home with Yuji (despite the fact that she lives in the opposite direction). Yoshida did not really see Konoe as a rival prior to that strange incident where she found Yuji and Konoe staring deeply into each other's eyes.

Similarly with Shana, considering that she probably spends the most time with Yuji out of everyone (morning and night practice training, school, tomogura hunting ect) the time Konoe takes up is miniscule compared to how much time Shana actually spends with Yuji throughout the day. Also if indeed Shana was disturbed by Yuji spending too much time with Konoe, I doubt not showing up for training helps, as now she spends even less time with Yuji. Unless you label that factor as incosistent also, it's probably just a misunderstanding on Yoshida's and Shana's part thinking that Yuji had a romantic relationship with Konoe.

grey_moon

2007-11-15, 02:25

alright, if you're going to say that, I want you tell me what scenes exactly in season 1 don't match up with the character you think he's become in season 2, because clearly this overall reference back thing isn't working.

Done that several times already. Instead of me listing out how Yuji wasn't portrayed as a dumb nice harem guy, how about you do the reverse?

well, I think you've basically answered you're own question. it is an unnaturally high jealousy based off a false understanding. Actually spending time with Konoe quickly reveals to Shana that she's not some snake woman, and that this extreme fear of god knows what in Shana's head is in fact ridiculous. Shana's already 'cured' before she goes up to the roof with Yoshida (the little conversation in the classroom reveals that), the lines are just a band aid to make sure Shana doesn't fall into such jealous fits again. Think of it as Yoshida simply putting something Shana has already started to figure out on her own into words (wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes:), which is why Shana quietly listens, immediately applies it to the current situation with Konoe and Yuji, and only acts surprised when Yoshida says she told Shana because she wanted to be fair.

So washing dishes is enough time to get to know Konoe? Geeezzz even we the viewers don't now her. As you already pointed out it is an un-natural high jealousy, so therefore should warrant a little more of a solution then what was currently shown.

Similarly with Shana, considering that she probably spends the most time with Yuji out of everyone (morning and night practice training, school, tomogura hunting ect) the time Konoe takes up is miniscule compared to how much time Shana actually spends with Yuji throughout the day. Also if indeed Shana was disturbed by Yuji spending too much time with Konoe, I doubt not showing up for training helps, as now she spends even less time with Yuji. Unless you label that factor as incosistent also, it's probably just a misunderstanding on Yoshida's and Shana's part thinking that Yuji had a romantic relationship with Konoe.

Actually I didn't want to over complicate that post, but since you raised it, doesn't all this add up to Yuji being more then dumb to not notice all the actions on Yoshida and Shana's part? What was going through his head? "Them girls are acting weird, oh well who cares as long as I can spend some quality time looking after my puppy". The point is he actually did notice something was up, but just didn't do anything about it at all until this episode and even then it was brushed aside by the Konoe shirt tug or instigated by someone else....

Yuji guy is portrayed as being rather quick on his feet suddenly in S2 is thick as two planks just coz the subjects are people who fancy him. The tomagura have got it all wrong, instead of trying to kill him straight off they should fancy him first as then that would dull his senses... (ofc Konoe could be that exact plan :p)

ashlay

2007-11-15, 11:00

So washing dishes is enough time to get to know Konoe? Geeezzz even we the viewers don't now her. As you already pointed out it is an un-natural high jealousy, so therefore should warrant a little more of a solution then what was currently shown.
not enough time to get to know Konoe, enough time to dis-spell a false image of Konoe.

Actually I didn't want to over complicate that post, but since you raised it, doesn't all this add up to Yuji being more then dumb to not notice all the actions on Yoshida and Shana's part? What was going through his head? "Them girls are acting weird, oh well who cares as long as I can spend some quality time looking after my puppy". The point is he actually did notice something was up, but just didn't do anything about it at all until this episode and even then it was brushed aside by the Konoe shirt tug or instigated by someone else....
That's right, because it's Yuji. Remember, that guy who didn't kiss shana, who tried to pretend he didn't see Shana naked in the second to last scene in s1, who keeps accepting lunchboxes from Yoshida, who doesn't confess, blah blah blah. In Yuji's head pushing the issue in the first couple of days means he might be hurting Shana's feelings. (remember when he tried to ask last time? Shana yelled at him) Only when forced with the fact that Shana continues to be miserable does he come to "well, I should find out what's wrong, since it doesn't seem Shana could be any unhappier". But of course Shana has worked the issue herself, which means Yuji has just been punished for trying to involve himself in the issue and rewarded for not doing so. Guess what'll happen next time a similar problem comes up?

lua thien

2007-11-15, 18:50

How long is Konoe going to continue clinging to Yuji? She looked a bit too robotic in doing so.

KaneDragon

2007-11-15, 21:47

A running gag for the next Shana-tan?

ashlay

2007-11-15, 22:30

A running gag for the next Shana-tan?
well, judging from that entire reversal in the last Shana-tan featuring Hecate (how exactly was it that despite Hecate being the one blushing and moaning while sitting on top of Yuji in the main series, Yuji ended up being the pervert? 0_o) I'm betting a Shana-tan special will have Yuji acting like Frigane, and Konoe's going to be his own personal Marianne. :rolleyes:

itis

2007-11-16, 00:54

Anyone else tired of this bullshit school life drama crap? By this time in season one, they were already killing bad guys.

Tokkan

2007-11-16, 01:26

Anyone else tired of this bullshit school life drama crap? By this time in season one, they were already killing bad guys.

If you've been reading all these threads, you'd know the answer is yes, there are a lot of people who are tired of this stuff. Luckily, the Konoe focus is over for the time being. And the next time there is focus on her, there'd probably be alot more action to it.

ashlay

2007-11-16, 01:31

Anyone else tired of this bullshit school life drama crap? By this time in season one, they were already killing bad guys.
someone seems to have forgotten Mare and Kasha. well, as Tokkan said, plenty of people don't seem to care about that. :rolleyes:

anywho, I'd tell you to stop watching if you don't like it, but episode 8 seems to be getting to the action some viewers have been craving, so maybe you'll want to keep watching. *shrug*

teachopvutru

2007-11-16, 03:41

someone seems to have forgotten Mare and Kasha. well, as Tokkan said, plenty of people don't seem to care about that. :rolleyes:

anywho, I'd tell you to stop watching if you don't like it, but episode 8 seems to be getting to the action some viewers have been craving, so maybe you'll want to keep watching. *shrug*

I don't dislike the current school drama, but I just hope that, like I've heard before on this thread and/or some previous threads, it'll have a dramatic impact on later stories and fights.

grey_moon

2007-11-16, 11:29

someone seems to have forgotten Mare and Kasha. well, as Tokkan said, plenty of people don't seem to care about that. :rolleyes:

Coz plenty of people don't know about stuff which is going to happen in the future and we can only take it one episode at a time....

ashlay

2007-11-16, 12:15

Coz plenty of people don't know about stuff which is going to happen in the future and we can only take it one episode at a time....
...but Mare and Kasha were episodes 1 to 3. :confused:

grey_moon

2007-11-16, 14:02

...but Mare and Kasha were episodes 1 to 3. :confused:

Oh the dream clown, gosh I've forgotten all about her, I thought she had got beaten. To be honest the last few episodes of Yuji denseness has kinda overwhelmed me with this series. I hoping that hopefully they have gotten the whole Konoe makes everyone stupid or jealous thing out of the way and the story will move on and my interest will pick up.

alvinkhorfire

2007-11-16, 19:14

Well, let's have a cooking contest between Chigusa and Kazumi!

Of course, Keisaku's place is always clean because the writers fail to mention the maid and that we assume that the maid is there. And uh, I don't think Wilhelmina would be interested.

Anyway, as mentioned in S1, the only thing that Keisaku's parents concern is cleanliness. They do have a maid to keep the house clean. Maybe, the maid replenishes the booze stock regularly since Margery is fast at depleting it.

Someone tell her to buy something other than melon bread...

I was kind of hoping that Shana will give something else as bento to Yuji, like egg and breads since she took some cooking leason with Chigusa. The cooking leason was stopped after Shana is pisssed up. Since she is now happy again, hopefully she can resume cooking leason with Chigusa.

About whether Fumina is Hecate or not, can Shana fly to temporary residence of Bal Masque just to check whether Hecate is still at there or not? If Hecate is not at there, it just rises the possiblity of Fumina being Hecate.

ashlay

2007-11-16, 19:37

About whether Fumina is Hecate or not, can Shana fly to temporary residence of Bal Masque just to check whether Hecate is still at there or not? If Hecate is not at there, it just rises the possiblity of Fumina being Hecate.
uh...no, I'd say such a move would be tantamount to suicide, even for flame haze team like Shana and Alastor. :uhoh:

besides, they don't know where the Bal Masque land base whose name I can't read (whatever, the place Fecor guards) is. :confused: Think it's far more likely at this point that Yuji or Shana accidentally knock off Konoe's bracelet.

minhtam1638

2007-11-16, 19:42

I was kind of hoping that Shana will give something else as bento to Yuji, like egg and breads since she took some cooking leason with Chigusa. The cooking leason was stopped after Shana is pisssed up. Since she is now happy again, hopefully she can resume cooking leason with Chigusa.

Eggs was my first guess as well. Maybe 2 loaves of Melon Bread and a side of scrambled eggs with soy sauce...

grey_moon

2007-11-16, 22:53

I was kind of hoping that Shana will give something else as bento to Yuji, like egg and breads since she took some cooking leason with Chigusa. The cooking leason was stopped after Shana is pisssed up. Since she is now happy again, hopefully she can resume cooking leason with Chigusa.

Or there is the old melon bread tempura, or melon bread sandwich etc etc. What happened to the good old rule of those who can't cook get all imaginative?

minhtam1638

2007-11-16, 22:54

Or there is the old melon bread tempura, or melon bread sandwich etc etc. What happened to the good old rule of those who can't cook get all imaginative?

That's as disgusting as Wilhelmina's cabbage roll.

alvinkhorfire

2007-11-17, 15:43

uh...no, I'd say such a move would be tantamount to suicide, even for flame haze team like Shana and Alastor. :uhoh:

besides, they don't know where the Bal Masque land base whose name I can't read (whatever, the place Fecor guards) is. :confused: Think it's far more likely at this point that Yuji or Shana accidentally knock off Konoe's bracelet.

You are right. I hope that someone will eventually accidentally knock off Konoe's bracelet.

lua thien

2007-11-18, 20:20

You are right. I hope that someone will eventually accidentally knock off Konoe's bracelet.

If it turns out that she's Hecate, what would happen next? I'm not sure if Hecate can even fight. Does she have any combat capabilities?

grey_moon

2007-11-18, 21:48

If it turns out that she's Hecate, what would happen next? I'm not sure if Hecate can even fight. Does she have any combat capabilities?

She doesn't need to fight, all she needs to do is snap her fingers and Yuji will automatically jump to her defence :eyespin:

ashlay

2007-11-18, 22:40

She doesn't need to fight, all she needs to do is snap her fingers and Yuji will automatically jump to her defence :eyespin:
don't you mean Sydonay? :heh:

lua thien

2007-11-18, 23:06

Originally Posted by lua thien
If it turns out that she's Hecate, what would happen next? I'm not sure if Hecate can even fight. Does she have any combat capabilities?

She doesn't need to fight, all she needs to do is snap her fingers and Yuji will automatically jump to her defence :eyespin:

I'd imagine Sydonay's expression if he finds out that Hecate only wants Yuji for herself. Of course, the expression on Shana and the others are also in for shock.

Reckoner

2007-11-18, 23:23

I also wish that show would just hurry up and progress. I would not mind this slow progress as much if it weren't for the fact that there are only going to be 24 episodes. If the rest of the novels are going to be placed in this second season, it is going to become very sloppy and rushed, which I do not want to see. At this rate I hope they get a 3rd season on its way. :frustrated:

School Days' ending really lightened me up on Yuiji's mental deficiency in recognizing people's feelings so he isn't bothering me nearly as much, especially because he is trying now (Unfortunately foiled though).

Anyways I rated this episode a 7/10, better than the last one but I hope we get to more story than slice of life shana...

grey_moon

2007-11-19, 01:52

don't you mean Sydonay? :heh:

I can imagine it now. Konoe for some reason becomes Hecate. Shana jumps to attack, but Yuji automatically jumps to protect Konoe/Hecate (conditioning). Shana goes WTF, Yuji has a confused look on his face. Sydonay pops out from the shadows and does an evil laugh and goes on about his lovely pure Hecate. Konoe/Hecate glomps Yuji and tells Sydney that Yuji is enough for her. Sydonay has a nervous break down as does Shana.

holyman282

2007-11-19, 17:15

I can imagine it now. Konoe for some reason becomes Hecate. Shana jumps to attack, but Yuji automatically jumps to protect Konoe/Hecate (conditioning). Shana goes WTF, Yuji has a confused look on his face. Sydonay pops out from the shadows and does an evil laugh and goes on about his lovely pure Hecate. Konoe/Hecate glomps Yuji and tells Sydney that Yuji is enough for her. Sydonay has a nervous break down as does Shana.

Killing two birds with one stone! Yuji that player:heh:

Well I hope they don't finish in this season.. The novel is still going so if they are going to finish then it'll turn into a anime original ending... I prefer things to stick as closely to it's original source as possible.

ashlay

2007-11-19, 17:21

Killing two birds with one stone! Yuji that player:heh:

Well I hope they don't finish in this season.. The novel is still going so if they are going to finish then it'll turn into a anime original ending... I prefer things to stick as closely to it's original source as possible.
thought you didn't like them having an increased presence this school material.

alvinkhorfire

2007-11-19, 17:26

thought you didn't like them having an increased presence this school material.

Correct me if I am wrong. S1 covered materials up to Novel 9. This S2 episode 6 used materials from Novel 8. Judging up to episode 6, there will be a lot of materials they need to cover from Novel 10. If there is only season 2, I doubt that they will be able to finish covering all the materials.

minhtam1638

2007-11-19, 17:40

ashlay

2007-11-19, 18:15

Correct me if I am wrong. S1 covered materials up to Novel 9. This S2 episode 6 used materials from Novel 8. Judging up to episode 6, there will be a lot of materials they need to cover from Novel 10. If there is only season 2, I doubt that they will be able to finish covering all the materials.
well, except that volume 10 and 15 have absolutely nothing to do with Shana. :rolleyes:

At best they've got 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, and 17; at worst they've only got 11-14. And 11 and 13 for all intents and purposes have absolutely no fighting material in them. and that doesn't even take into account how much each volume actually makes up in terms of episodes. (lets just say we're not going to be getting 6 episodes out of it like the first season did for volume 1)

way I see it, they are indeed at a severe disadvantage in terms of material and have to include more school material if they want to "stick as closely to the original source as possible."

minhtam1638

2007-11-19, 18:18

well, except that volume 10 and 15 have absolutely nothing to do with Shana. :rolleyes:

At best they've got 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, and 17; at worst they've got only got 11-14. And 11 and 13 for all intents and purposes have absolutely no fighting material in them. and that doesn't even take into account how much each volume actually makes up in terms of episodes.

I believe each novel takes up 3-4 episodes. Given that we have about 15 left, we can go with the 11 to 14 deal, and leave the season hanging with a cliffhanger (again).

alvinkhorfire

2007-11-19, 18:38

well, except that volume 10 and 15 have absolutely nothing to do with Shana. :rolleyes:

I have to agree with both of you. Although Vol 10 and 15 is not related with Shana, they represented the past and the past certainly has some effect on the present. If I am not mistaken, the synopsis for Vol 15 states that some events in Vol 15 has some important consequences for the future. Even if they choose not animate Vol 10 and 15 in season 2, they still have to take account of these events. Just my personal opinion, though.

ashlay

2007-11-19, 18:44

I have to agree with both of you. Although Vol 10 and 15 is not related with Shana, they represented the past and the past certainly has some effect on the present. If I am not mistaken, the synopsis for Vol 15 states that some events in Vol 15 has some important consequences for the future. Even if they choose not animate Vol 10 and 15 in season 2, they still have to take account of these events. Just my personal opinion, though.
see, but they've already noted the events of 10. and 15? they really don't. the statement was simply that a character who had appeared in there would be important later on.

Devard

2007-11-19, 20:49

I also think that if they're going to drop anything, it's probably going to be the tenth and fifteenth novels at this stage in the season. An OVA would be awesome though. ;)

grey_moon

2007-11-19, 22:11

From what I gather they have the original author aboard so I'm hoping that they of all the people can keep the stories aligned (if that is their goal).

minhtam1638

2007-11-19, 22:14

From what I gather they have the original author aboard so I'm hoping that they of all the people can keep the stories aligned (if that is their goal).

If not, let's just hope that they cut it short at the Pheles arc and either

A) they make a 12-episode 3rd season
B) they extend this season to 36 episodes.

grey_moon

2007-11-20, 06:10

If not, let's just hope that they cut it short at the Pheles arc and either

A) they make a 12-episode 3rd season
B) they extend this season to 36 episodes.

Yup yup I think that is the best approach. I also rather that they extend over cram. Well as long as it isn't a Naruto filler killer session :twitch:

I like nothing better then to come back to a series later on and marathon 3 series each at 26 episodes, that is what I call bliss :)

Also it makes issues such as these past 4 episodes seem far less prominent (well for those who didn't like them), as waiting a week or more between each episode gives too much time to think about stuff :p

minhtam1638

2007-11-20, 06:24

Yup yup I think that is the best approach. I also rather that they extend over cram. Well as long as it isn't a Naruto filler killer session :twitch:

I like nothing better then to come back to a series later on and marathon 3 series each at 26 episodes, that is what I call bliss :)

Also it makes issues such as these past 4 episodes seem far less prominent (well for those who didn't like them), as waiting a week or more between each episode gives too much time to think about stuff :p

Well, unless they want to make a huge filler series about Hanukkah or something, if there is a 3rd season, then it's going to have 12 episodes. Because from the looks of it in terms of the novel perspective, this thing is ending really soon.

KaneDragon

2007-11-21, 20:47

If there's so much more material to work from, why introduce an anime-only character and stall relationships? Forgive me for rehashing the same complaining that's been going on for pages...

holyman282

2007-11-21, 20:50

minhtam1638

2007-11-21, 21:07

How do you know that they are filler character? Perhaps they play a much more important role in the future and hence the time spent near the beginning to build their characters up.

A good anime starts with a good foundation.

Quoted For Truth

And Shakugan no Shana's foundation was crumbling at the end of Season 1... sort of... either that or it crumbled when Shana refused to confess a second time.

teachopvutru

2007-11-21, 23:55

Quoted For Truth

And Shakugan no Shana's foundation was crumbling at the end of Season 1... sort of... either that or it crumbled when Shana refused to confess a second time.

Please enlighten me on what that foundation suppose to be... I'm quite dumb when it comes to these analyzing stuffs, really. :uhoh:

minhtam1638

2007-11-22, 00:00

Please enlighten me on what that foundation suppose to be... I'm quite dumb when it comes to these analyzing stuffs, really. :uhoh:

A "foundation" is a basic structure in which the story flows out of. Kind of like a flower sprouting out of a seed.

For example, Season 1 started with the Reiji Maigo, right? The story revolves around that.

Okay, my example was a bit too basic for a foundation, but you get the idea (I hope).

teachopvutru

2007-11-22, 00:56

A "foundation" is a basic structure in which the story flows out of. Kind of like a flower sprouting out of a seed.

For example, Season 1 started with the Reiji Maigo, right? The story revolves around that.

Okay, my example was a bit too basic for a foundation, but you get the idea (I hope).

K... I think I understand what foundation is... although I still fail to see the significance of Shana's confession to the Reiji Maigo. Since I'm a fan of the couple, I'd say that it's significant, but I doubt you're referring it in that perspective. Well, unless you're talking about the discussion I've read on the novel thread about how the story revolves around these two characters, and a half of that story is completed with Shana's development and she sticks to her true feeling to confess... Arggghhh!! Nvm, it's all a clumsy mess inside my head now ><

KaneDragon

2007-11-22, 10:37

How do you know that they are filler character?

Because she isn't in the novels, is she? That's what I mean. Why make up new stuff right from the start (even if they work in some importance later on, which is likely considering the OMINOUS bracelets and battle butler) when they have all this other stuff from the actual novels to use? Especially when all she's been doing up til now has been running relationships in circles and giving Yuji a chance to look even more dense...:rolleyes:

But don't mind me, I'm just killing time until the next episode is subbed...:heh:

teachopvutru

2007-11-22, 11:33

Because she isn't in the novels, is she? That's what I mean. Why make up new stuff right from the start (even if they work in some importance later on, which is likely considering the OMINOUS bracelets and battle butler) when they have all this other stuff from the actual novels to use? Especially when all she's been doing up til now has been running relationships in circles and giving Yuji a chance to look even more dense...:rolleyes:

But don't mind me, I'm just killing time until the next episode is subbed...:heh:

Meh... I always thought Konoe would be a really important character later on. In any case though, even if it's been slice-of-life all along, I'm dying for a new sub release. The best way to celebrate Thanksgiving is with a quality Shana episode. :rolleyes:

ashlay

2007-11-22, 11:40

Because she isn't in the novels, is she? That's what I mean. Why make up new stuff right from the start (even if they work in some importance later on, which is likely considering the OMINOUS bracelets and battle butler) when they have all this other stuff from the actual novels to use? Especially when all she's been doing up til now has been running relationships in circles and giving Yuji a chance to look even more dense...:rolleyes:

But don't mind me, I'm just killing time until the next episode is subbed...:heh:
because then it's going to be NOTHING but slice of life. >_<

the original material works like this at this point (slice of life>fights w/ slice of life>slice of life), and they blew the fight material for this (Wilhelmina) last season. that's the problem. that's why there's a Konoe. otherwise, this would basically be absolutely nothing but school material till Pheles.