View Full Version : Higurashi Kai Episode 19 Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni Kai, Episode 19.
Thread Guidelines
Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
Spoilers about future events must not be posted in this thread.
If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=vb_board_usage#faq_vb_pm_explain).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Please try to keep the discussion on topic.
Spoiler Policy
Any spoiler that reveals future events, even under a spoiler tag, will be deleted.
Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
Adding a Spoiler tag:
spoiler.gif
Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found
on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
Make sure that you include a title for the spoiler!
Please use the Report button if you see any spoilers:
report.gif
Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar.
Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators
to locate and deal with problems quickly.
Posting prohibited spoilers may result in a ban.
Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.
Solafighter
2007-11-12, 14:57
Well well.. 5 episodes left.. :uhoh: :)
Klashikari
2007-11-12, 14:59
Let the true start of Matsuribayashi-hen begin!
Episode 19: Bullet summary and screecaps (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/11/12/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-19-matsuribayashi-hen-6-makuake/)
edit: screencaps are uploaded
Another fast paced epsiode, we see from Hanyuu's entrance to Rika getting advices from the club members. The parts with Rena in the beginning and Mion in the end were done nicely. One of the thing that probably bugged me the most is the scene of バケモノ is gone. Hanyuu basically just met 34-tan, remembered about the past events, and moved on. I sure hope the scenes with Loli-saka and Tomi doesn't get the same treatment...
Sterling01
2007-11-12, 16:29
Wait so there's no Takano calling Hanyuu... a monster
-MotokoAoyama-
2007-11-12, 17:39
The lack of バケモノ is what made me take off one point for this episode. The rest of it, especially Hanyuu moe, was done very well. Can't wait for the next episode!
it's all fun and games until someone gets onikakushi'd
MezzoDragon
2007-11-12, 19:31
Rena takes the term "running joke" a bit too far in this episode. It is funny, but three times was not a charm.
harukamae
2007-11-12, 20:31
LOL I'm afraid to know what Rena does to those she omochikaeri's. :-D As bad as this sounds, I want K-chan's dress, he has good taste!
Good episode, interested to see the part about Hanyuu that was allegedly left out (though they're different, did it appear in Miotsukushi-hen from the PS2 game?)
Also, the post-credits bit has me very intrigued and with many questions, the biggest one being is that ending bit true to the game?
Never thought we'd see that woman again.
Minus one point for the missing "bakemono" remark by 34. Yes i know it is a harsh word, but it just doesn't sound right without that strong blast which signifies the underlying conflict and her resolve to drag down Hanyuu from being the local deity.
MezzoDragon
2007-11-12, 21:42
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does anyone wonder why Hanyuu has horns?
Sterling01
2007-11-12, 21:46
LOL I'm afraid to know what Rena does to those she omochikaeri's. :-D As bad as this sounds, I want K-chan's dress, he has good taste!
Good episode, interested to see the part about Hanyuu that was allegedly left out (though they're different, did it appear in Miotsukushi-hen from the PS2 game?)
Also, the post-credits bit has me very intrigued and with many questions, the biggest one being is that ending bit true to the game?
in Miotsukushi-hen You don't even see her until near the end.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does anyone wonder why Hanyuu has horns?
Well... She is a demon
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does anyone wonder why Hanyuu has horns?
You maybe really dont want to know...
Kang Seung Jae
2007-11-12, 21:49
Well... She is a demon
Maybe not. A human COULD have horns.....
Maybe not. A human COULD have horns.....
Rena's father does ;)
Sterling01
2007-11-12, 21:54
Rena's father does ;)
Wait... What are you talking about?
MezzoDragon
2007-11-12, 22:02
I was talking about the character in the anime!
Kang Seung Jae
2007-11-12, 22:18
Glad to finally get to the final showdwon. Go Hanyuu!
Preview for 20 is up.
http://www.animate.tv/special/higurasi_yokoku.php
Rena's father does
I think this is a blind guess, but are you referencing the idiom we use in Spanish speaking countries referring that he got cheated on? ("Le puso los cuernos"/"He got horns put on him") If that's the case you are just confusing everyone :p
In any case, not being a game player sure does help enjoying this series more. Since this was my first exposure, I couldn't feel anything else but the thrill and the suspense that is beeing build up. :)
I was thinking the same thing as Dark Rika was when Teppei called in for the Dark Rika Corner...
"Aren't there anyone else out there?"
And we finally know that Hanyuu's horns are *beep* :heh:
Haha, cuckholded! The horns on your head that everyone but you can see!
(Apparently that's where "bunny-ears" came from...)
http://warnerkirby.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/the_more_you_know775718.jpg
theacefrehley
2007-11-13, 06:22
Just a question to our beloved pieces/tips translators
By the end of Matsuribayashi, will we have piece 52 on the pieces thread?:D:D:D
Sinestra
2007-11-13, 11:04
So sad that Higurashi is coming to a close but so exciting to see how it will finally end. ITs been a long time since iv enjoyed a series as throughly as this one.
MezzoDragon
2007-11-13, 11:27
Rena is crazy and extremely strong during a loli hunt.
Deathkillz
2007-11-13, 13:07
lolol rena XD
she soooo wants to take hanyuu home it's really amusing to watch ^^
so i guess this is the final showdown and the ultimate happiness for rika...will she make it? *dun dun duuuuun!*
interesting that she forgot about takano being the mastermind...but with hanyuu on her side there isnt anything she cant do now...this is going to be epix :)
Trogdor Jube
2007-11-13, 19:55
Rena went on a hauu overdose.
And poor K1, so close to winning to.
Overall the episode started off like all the other chapters, a light intro ending with something that will keep you in suspense.
And then theres mizz silver hair. Wait scratch that, where the hell is Shion?
MezzoDragon
2007-11-13, 20:10
Rena got high on Hanyuu's moeness. If it a shame Shion was not along with them. That would have been so awesome, no? Besides, it would be ironic if Satoko punched Shion instead of Mion.
Trogdor Jube
2007-11-13, 20:25
Besides, it would be ironic if Satoko punched Shion instead of Mion.
Meakashi-hen: Satoko style.
kingsky123
2007-11-14, 01:43
Yay!!! this means we get the see the last fight with the katana / the shotgun / and the brucelee fist?
i hope they make OVAs or something once this is over ... (or i will suffer from withdrawals)
How exactly does the conversation with Takano go in the game? I'm curious to why she would suddenly call Hanyuu a monster.
hope they make OVAs or something once this is over ... (or i will suffer from withdrawals)
Seconded... they could always elect to make the PS2 game chapters as OVAs....
Onniguru
2007-11-14, 13:52
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does anyone wonder why Hanyuu has horns?
I tend to wonder more why everyone in the class is taken by her cuteness, but not one person in the class seems to even notice she has horns growing out of her friggin head :)
Note that my Nihongo is not very strong, however.
SnEptUne
2007-11-14, 18:26
So sad that Higurashi is coming to a close but so exciting to see how it will finally end. ITs been a long time since iv enjoyed a series as throughly as this one.
True. But it is always fun to rewatch it.
Suigintou shows up again in this episode, but her eyes look weird as usual.
Sterling01
2007-11-14, 18:56
Seconded... they could always elect to make the PS2 game chapters as OVAs....
That really wouldn't work because those chapters only relate to the true end and not the good end
MezzoDragon
2007-11-14, 19:00
The PS2 chapters should be the third (and last) season or an OVA collection. Either way, I want to see Rena learn how those she tries to take home feels. That could be silly. And, I want to see the true ending animated.
Don't toss the manga arcs aside. Those equally deserve to be adapted... too bad it's most possibly a pipe dream :p
Trogdor Jube
2007-11-14, 21:29
Your all forgetting this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umineko_no_Naku_Koro_ni
Sterling01
2007-11-14, 22:03
The PS2 chapters should be the third (and last) season or an OVA collection. Either way, I want to see Rena learn how those she tries to take home feels. That could be silly. And, I want to see the true ending animated.
Hanyuu Fans won't like the true end
Let's not go there yet. If we go by Higurashi standards we won't be seeing an Umineko anime adaptation till the 2011 so where's the rush :D
@Sterling01
Isn't that like a heavy spoiler? I mean,
I didn't know anything about Meakashi except that it was the true end, and as such that it was most probably not as happy go lucky as Matsuribayashi. After what you've said it's not hard to connect the dots, so you've basically spoiled it for me :p
So if you don't mind spoiler tags would come in handy ;)
Rena fans also doesn't like the "true" end :heh:
That seems like a desperate attempt to cover the former statement with something not so relevant though :p
You'd be suprised with some of the Mion vs Rena rivalry on Shii-board :heh:
Serenity85
2007-11-14, 22:38
if someone doesn't mind could you pm me the basics of "Miotsukushi-hen" more or less the finally or "end" as I have spoiled the basics. I can't get my hands on the ps2 game so I won't be able to see "the true end".
Much appriciated
Sterling01
2007-11-14, 22:52
Here are the basics
After finding out who the real murderer is, Rika and Keiichi decide to put an end to the whole mystery, but they are in a different situation than Matsuribayashi-hen. Before they can do anything, they have to solve other people's problems first. The problems of Watanagashi/Meakashi-hen, Tatarigoroshi-hen, and Tsumihoroboshi-hen are met here and all of them must be solved. While Matsuribayashi-hen is the epilogue of PC-port games, it is considered to be the "Good End" of the series. According to the original author, Miotsukushi-hen should be considered the true end of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, implying that it will be a bittersweet, but more meaningful ending. Meaning in the end one of the main characters dies. Oh and Hanyuu isn't there.
@Rias What's the Shii-board?
MezzoDragon
2007-11-14, 23:00
The main characters die in almost every chapter. But, they always had Hanyuu the Deus ex Mecha Demon to save them. It is a shame she will not be in the end.
Sterling01
2007-11-14, 23:10
Oh and I forgot to add three things
1. Keiichi and Mion go on a Date:naughty:
2.Takano has really bad aim:heh:
3. The music is really really bad
Shii board is one of the boards on 07expansion's website, Shii board is for people to discuss story plot and theories and what not.
There were some heated debates there when Matsuri came out :heh:
MezzoDragon
2007-11-14, 23:18
Shouldn't the Shii board be about Shion? Or, does that make too much sense?
Sterling01
2007-11-14, 23:19
Wouldn't the Shion board be Shi-chan?
They are using the way Rika address Shion, being しぃ, as the name
-MotokoAoyama-
2007-11-14, 23:27
The one thing that left me puzzled this episode is why nobody noticed Hanyuu's horns. I thought it would be someone surprising to see a horned transfer student :heh:
As for Miotsukushi-hen, from what I've heard about it, I think I prefer Matsuribayashi-hen, haha. I'm a sucker for good endings.
By the way, does anybody know what the Dark Rika corner this week is about? I'm sure it is interesting seeing that there are so many bleeped out words!
I'm not a big fan of Miotsukushi-hen myself, but story-wise it's better than Matsuribayashi-hen in various ways. To me the "true ending" of higurashi is still Saikoroshi-hen.
fict_ticious
2007-11-14, 23:35
Extra points for excessive "taking home" of Hanyuu. Now all the pieces are on the board.
Sterling01
2007-11-14, 23:36
I consider Saikoroshi-hen more of a epilogue so if they decide to make a OVA it should be about that.
Kang Seung Jae
2007-11-15, 00:35
Rena fans also doesn't like the "true" end :heh:
You mean she......
NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
The Bloodlust Kid
2007-11-15, 02:19
Rena fans also doesn't like the "true" end :heh:
Details plox. There's a snowball's chance in hell I'll ever see the PS2 port.
kingsky123
2007-11-15, 03:58
Details plox. There's a snowball's chance in hell I'll ever see the PS2 port.
everyday i pray higurashi gets an english translation ( PS2 version ) X(
theacefrehley
2007-11-15, 05:53
How exactly does the conversation with Takano go in the game? I'm curious to why she would suddenly call Hanyuu a monster.
I don't remember the details
but, it's something like this:
Takano (and Tomitake) meets the kids
She finds Hanyuu's horns strange and ask if it's an accessorie or a toy
Rena goes saying it is kaai and it's her charm
Takano says she doesn't think it's cute and she looks like a monster/Bakemono (kind of nonchalantly)
then she gets scolded by Rika, apologizes and goes away
that makes Hanyuu remember "something"
kingsky123
2007-11-15, 18:17
i wonder does her horns grow as she does as well? does she even grow? well in the past she was an adult right? so was her horns bigger then?
Sterling01
2007-11-15, 18:23
It's funny that the one who notices Hanyuu's horns get scolded for it
Kang Seung Jae
2007-11-15, 18:39
everyday i pray higurashi gets an english translation ( PS2 version ) X(
Probably NEVER.
Although... there's a Korean translation.
cereal_killerxx
2007-11-16, 00:01
It just seems like the subs can't get here fast enough. Can't wait to see the beginning of the story and how the plan comes in motion. Do your best subbers! xD Hope to see a sub soon!
Talking about Higurashi Matsuri... I hadn't enough with the short tips you gave about miotsukushi-hen... If someone can pm me a telling of that arc, I would be very grateful with him/her for the rest of his/her life :3... I really want to know what happens there and how is the ending...
PS: Don't worry about spoilers! I really don't care... (If you PM me, of course, if you decide to post here, don't forget the always useful spoiler tag ; D)
kingsky123
2007-11-16, 02:33
Probably NEVER.
Although... there's a Korean translation.
Hopefully -> japanese - > korean -> chinese -> (insert language here ) -> english !! YAY :P
Miko Miko
2007-11-16, 13:40
i heard some subbers dropped higurashi :?
cereal_killerxx
2007-11-16, 14:00
i heard some subbers dropped higurashi :?
Really!? Where did you hear this from? A website or a person or what? and if so, which subbers dropped it???
vasili10
2007-11-16, 14:05
Hopefully -> japanese - > korean -> chinese -> (insert language here ) -> english !! YAY :P
That wouldn't be a good move to make. Even Japanese - > Korean -> English could result in discrepancies.
Hopefully -> japanese - > korean -> chinese -> (insert language here ) -> english !! YAY :P
There are eels in my hovercraft!
Miko Miko
2007-11-16, 14:59
Really!? Where did you hear this from? A website or a person or what? and if so, which subbers dropped it???
heard from the people at crunchyroll.com,
update (also found on cr):
One final note, Hauu~ is subbing nothing but Higurashi Kai and they subbed Episode 17 and 18 within 3 days of each other. So, I can put the demon inside me to sleep knowing that Hauu should have Higurashi up soon.
Wind are subbing it, they're however only on Episode 11. So we may have to wait a little while.
vasili10
2007-11-16, 17:22
Wind are subbing it, they're however only on Episode 11. So we may have to wait a little while.
And I really like theirs.:sad:
I thought Sekai would be filling in for Philanthropy though.
It's out.
http://rapidshare.com/files/70216703/higurashi.no.naku.koro.ni.kai.19.ass.html
QuestionableLogic
2007-11-16, 17:24
someone already beat me to it ><
Talking about Higurashi Matsuri... I hadn't enough with the short tips you gave about miotsukushi-hen... If someone can pm me a telling of that arc, I would be very grateful with him/her for the rest of his/her life :3... I really want to know what happens there and how is the ending...
PS: Don't worry about spoilers! I really don't care... (If you PM me, of course, if you decide to post here, don't forget the always useful spoiler tag ; D)
I'd... appreciate it too. T_T *so curious*
Klashikari
2007-11-16, 21:47
Folks, i'm not trying to sabotage the interesting discussion, but the topic is going a bit sidetracked, or even derailing.
Please use the PS2 game thread instead, over here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=43671).
There are already numerous descriptions and explanations and you can obviously ask questions etc.
That would leave episode thread safe (and so, reducing risk of unecessary spoilers for some people), and moderators won't get annoyed (as a last reminder: spoilers of future events, even under spoiler tags are prohibited, the same goes for discussions about "when" fansubs will be available).
The last maybe 5 minutes of this episode confused me a little. I think it's like this. The silver haired woman is using Takano to her advantage, by destroying Koizumi's work. And that was what Mion was stating before the credit reel.
k//eternal
2007-11-16, 22:19
I'm wondering, are both of the names she gave real (one being her first name, the other being her last) or is she using a fake name with Takano?
cereal_killerxx
2007-11-16, 23:06
It's out.
http://rapidshare.com/files/70216703/higurashi.no.naku.koro.ni.kai.19.ass.html
How in the world did you find out about it? I didn't think that Hauu had a website O_O
dspr8_rugged
2007-11-17, 02:57
Giving this episode a 9/10.
What a way to start the final arc. I haven't laughed this much ever since Yakusamashi-hen with all the "running gags" and the auauau~ overload. Hanyuu is definitely cute beyond words. And she is pretty much serious this time.
Despite being short, Akasaka sure had quite some screentime. It won't be a surprise if he joins the cause this time, something that I thought he would do back in Minagoroshi-hen.
And Gin-sama appears again. I honestly thought Miyo ditched her off when she had a chance. Heck, she seems to be a bigger evil than Miyo herself.
Can't wait for the next one.
FlareKnight
2007-11-17, 03:53
An excellent way to kick things off for the final run against Takano's will. Throwing in Hanyuu as a distant relative of Rika to get her involved with the group. Was a bit strange that no one seemed to make mention of the horns. But maybe they thought it was some kind of cosplay and they weren't real? Either that or people were so taken in by Hanyuu's moe it didn't matter :D.
Was a surprise that Rika couldn't remember what happened last time around. She gave such an effort to imprint Takano into her being. But guess there isn't much power left in Hanyuu. Making herself solid is a big enough job as it is. But at least she could remember and because she is going to fight gave that information to Rika. Have to get some pieces for this fight there is no question there.
Surprised to see Akasaka back and ready to help. Finally he's going to play a role and try to respond to that cry for help Rika made those years ago. Might just be the one who can find the connection between Takano and the other group that want this annihilation to take place. Is going to require a monumental effort, but with him around anything can happen. A better stroke of luck than the world where his wife survived. While it's sad to have her die...he was around to hear Rika's request to be saved which matters.
Already making some moves by talking to Ire. Maybe get some doubts in his head and it could be a real pull to have him on side. Gotta love manga being the code word for private and serious conversations. In this case its' pretty smart though. Making use of the experience and thinking of her friends to try and find a strategy.
Rena...oh Rena. They even tried tying her down, but she still kept trying to take Hanyuu home :).
The last maybe 5 minutes of this episode confused me a little. I think it's like this. The silver haired woman is using Takano to her advantage, by destroying Koizumi's work. And that was what Mion was stating before the credit reel.
That was rather interesting. She had told Takano that she was a member of the Koizumi faction that was trying to avenge the exploitation of Koizumi's legacy, but it seems she was lying at that time and that her objective is the complete opposite. I guess that she's been lying to Takano all along and plans to betray her in the end, which is certainly something that Takano would deserve.
I'm wondering, are both of the names she gave real (one being her first name, the other being her last) or is she using a fake name with Takano?
If she's merely manipulating Takano then it would make sense for her to give a fake name so that Takano or anyone else can't track her down.
How in the world did you find out about it? I didn't think that Hauu had a website O_O
He posts his subs on /a/ in 4chan.
k//eternal
2007-11-17, 04:03
The particularly interesting bit is how many layers of events occur outside the time loop. The gas disaster is news to Rika--but this time, that Takano doesn't REALLY win after all is news to us as well.
GyroidFanatic
2007-11-17, 13:01
How in the world did you find out about it? I didn't think that Hauu had a website O_O
He posts his subs on 4chan
Blablabla
2007-11-17, 13:08
Ha ha ha... Rena crazyness orgy in the ep. Funny as usual and Hanyuu is damn cute. Haven't seen such cute character since Fairy of Snow Sugar. Yeah, I understand Rena, I'd have liked to take her home, too.
Anyway something left me quite... disturbed :
So !
Rika left her past worlds memories but still managed to tell the Tokyo Policeman that she will be killed... facts that only happened in the past worlds she lived in.
So... What the fuck ?
Was Hanyuu still a spirit when Rika met the policeman years ago ? And therefore she had her memories left and managed to tell him about her "prophecy" ?
Solafighter
2007-11-17, 13:17
Great episode! :)
FlareKnight
2007-11-17, 13:24
Ha ha ha... Rena crazyness orgy in the ep. Funny as usual and Hanyuu is damn cute. Haven't seen such cute character since Fairy of Snow Sugar. Yeah, I understand Rena, I'd have liked to take her home, too.
Anyway something left me quite... disturbed :
So !
Rika left her past worlds memories but still managed to tell the Tokyo Policeman that she will be killed... facts that only happened in the past worlds she lived in.
So... What the fuck ?
Was Hanyuu still a spirit when Rika met the policeman years ago ? And therefore she had her memories left and managed to tell him about her "prophecy" ?
Can't blame Rena in the slightest. Think anyone would've wanted to take her home :).
In terms of Rika. I've just been working under the assumption Hanyuu flung them back as far as possible to try and ensure every piece they could possibly have was at their disposal. While giving the information to Akasaka hadn't paid off in getting them saved before had to give it a shot.
Besides we saw it in the last arc. Akasaka got the warning about his wife and went back to save her. However Rika had only come around with a short amount of time before the festival.
Anyways now that Rika got that key information from Ire. She knows exactly how much is riding on winning this time. If they fail then the village will be annihilated and everyone dies.
Kazuki_Kun
2007-11-17, 15:52
Great ep, loved the Rena/Hanyuu bits.
One thing that's bugging me, though. Where's Shion? ;-;
June 1983
2007-11-17, 16:14
Rika doesn't lose her past worlds' memories, only the memories just before her death. She still remembers everything else.
I'm not sure exactly what else happened ... it looks to me like in this reality, Hanyuu was able to send them far back again, but I'm still uncertain.
HOWEVER ... even if this is not the case, I'm kind of wondering if even when Rika is sent back not very far, in the past her trips back in time have still happened?
What I mean is:
Earlier on, Rika goes back to, say, 1977. She tells Akasaka stuff in 78, dies in 83, and gets brought back again, and comes back maybe in 1978. Then in 1979. Etc, etc. But everytime she does back she's still going back and "merging" with a Rika who has already gone back in time.
The flaw I see with this is that it would result in more consistency in the events of the worlds. That is, there would be less variables as she was sent back with less and less time, because certain things would already be set in stone by the time she got back. Actually, that kind of makes sense anyway, because that's sort of what would have to happen if what Hanyuu is doing is sending them back in time and creating new realities each time, rather than sending them to alternate realities where different things are occurring. Since we don't really know at what point each of the chapters are taking place in terms of Rika's entire lifespan, the huge variances (Shion being there, Keichii not being there, etc) could be the result of however much time Rika was able to go back to in that reality.
In that case though, it wouldn't make sense for Shion not to be in school with them in Matsuribayoshi-hen when she was there during Minagoroshi-hen. So that kind of blows that theory out of the water. Well -- unless of course Shion isn't there because in this reality, Hanyuu really was able to send them back really far, and therefore different choices were made about her ...
Seeing as though this is the final arc... wow, we finally see Rena at full power. I do like how Keiichi looks good with neko ears....
Anyway, as expected this episode was no disappointment. We didn't even need telling that this was the start of the last story, the pacing and how it was all set out did that job for us. Especially Oishi's "I'LL GIVE IT ALL I'VE GOT!" and when Takano appeared. Not to mention Rika and her manga.
I seriously can't wait to see what's going to happen in the next few episodes, the wait each week is going to make this even more enjoyable.
Wow i just had to watch this preview, i couldn't help myself after episode 19. Oishi at a grave, and Rika crying? It looks like she's with Irie.
FlareKnight
2007-11-17, 18:44
Guess they felt it was important to try and hold Rena back from taking Hanyuu home. Going all out on binding her up, though it didn't help for very long :).
The preview was pretty interesting. Looks like Rika will catch up with Asasaka right away. With both being light shirts it's not 100% but do think she's crying while holding Asasaka. Will have to be a real relief to have him there trying to protect her. Really am looking forward to episodes now with such a huge battle coming.
Looks like Ooishi is seeing that 'old man's' grave. This is his last chance before retirement so can understand him making a vow to try and solve it this time.
Also seems that everyone is pretty energized. Probably still working under the manga disguise. Though Rika will have to inform them of the truth sooner or later. And is there anyone else other than Teppei to call in?
Klashikari
2007-11-17, 18:46
In that case though, it wouldn't make sense for Shion not to be in school with them in Matsuribayoshi-hen when she was there during Minagoroshi-hen. So that kind of blows that theory out of the water. Well -- unless of course Shion isn't there because in this reality, Hanyuu really was able to send them back really far, and therefore different choices were made about her ...
Just think what happened in Minagoroshi-hen in stark contrast with the other chapters: Akasaka believed Rika and saved Yukie, making him "useless" as he never heard the happy "murders foretelling".
When Rika "returns back in the time", any actions she did in the past is "set in stone". However, some factors can lead into different consequences.
Akasaka's situation is the best example.
Rika's action: warn Akasaka, asking him to get back to Tokyo.
Possibilities:
1) very very low: Akasaka trusted Rika's "intuition" and saves Yukie.
2) most of the time: Akasaka stays in Hinamizawa.
From point 2, there are various possibilities (Akasaka dies against the yamainu, etc).
AND THEN, some factors might make him remember about what Rika told him, the bizarre incidents in Hinamizawa.
Hanyuu's powers must be considered as a "reset the worlds, with factors shaping the most redundant points, while random factors kick in".
The later point is uncontrollable, and lead to some very different consequences (exemple: the "doll" scene).
When Hanyuu's "reboot" everything, changing into another "reality" or "dimension" (rather than timeline), the world itself is shaped with some randomization and "luck".
Thus, some events can be avoided and such. In such regards, Shion may or may not be with everyone, that really depends of everything. (as you can see, several batshit events might happen at the SAME TIME. I think some people might know what i'm talking about)
The preview was pretty interesting. Looks like Rika will catch up with Asasaka right away. With both being light shirts it's not 100% but do think she's crying while holding Asasaka. Will have to be a real relief to have him there trying to protect her. Really am looking forward to episodes now with such a huge battle coming.
Yeah that makes sense, that scene we see in the preview will probably be just after she meets up with him again.
Sorrow-K
2007-11-17, 20:18
Rika's manga writing hypothetical to try to understand Takano's motives was brilliant on her part, and it was a very clever way to show the audience the motivations of the conspirators, particularly Suigintou. I'm really glad Suigintou, I mean Takagi, hasn't been forgotten in all of this, since I'd say she's the most important antagonist in all of this. Takano may have been the one who's actions caused the great disaster, but she also is having her strings pulled by an even greater manipulator. I'm just a bit disappointed that Takagi won't get the same amount of analysis as Takano got.
Overall, another amazing episode. Hasn't this series just been a gem.
Hanyuu's powers must be considered as a "reset the worlds, with factors shaping the most redundant points, while random factors kick in".
The later point is uncontrollable, and lead to some very different consequences (exemple: the "doll" scene).
Well, I think it is explained by now, but I wanted to make some examples...
Watanagashi - Minagoroshi Random factor: Keiichi wins the doll
Keiichi gives to Rena - Shion goes mad
Keiichi gives to Mion - Shion is happy
But while Minagoroshi had this Watanagashi random factor, it had Tatarigoshi's random factor: Teppei coming back home. While there is some factors that cannot happen together(like Rina dating Rena's father and Teppei coming back home, cause he only does that when Rina is dead), you can actually get all the bad random stuff in the same world.
Ehr... Tell me if I'm wrong, please
But... I though Rika's foretelling to Akasaka happened only in a few worlds. Is it something already setted?
As for the episode... I liked it, but even if I'm not a game player I felt some parts were rushed. Specially Rika's talking with Irie and Hanyuu...
But the last part is brilliant. Rika is a genius...
And it seems that Takano is going to be back stabbed :D I... feel sorry for her. But I really wanna see her reaction after HGD in others chapters now...
Rika fortells the exact dates of the 4 years of murders incidents, and her own death which she's not sure the exact date of. These murder events has always happened in every previous arcs.
I guess I am the only who was quite disappointed by this episode. Maybe I was in too cynical mood when I watched it. :)
Hanyuu just decides to quit being just a spectator and takes a human form without much explanation. Why didn't she do that earlier? She remembered Takano being the culprit which has never happened before - way too convenient. Irie tells Rika about the contigency plan to exterminate Hinamizawa's population just like that. Mion is suddenly Sherlock Holmes and figures out the faction rivalry in the Tokyo group. Akasaka happens to return to Hinamizawa in time for the final showdown. Everyone "remembers' Hanyuu. Too many coincidences and convenient plot developments for my taste.
Hanyuu is way too moe-cute. I can't take her seriously at all.
And last but not least, too little screentime for Suigintou again.
kingsky123
2007-11-17, 23:11
I guess I am the only who was quite disappointed by this episode. Maybe I was in too cynical mood when I watched it. :)
Hanyuu just decides to quit being just a spectator and takes a human form without much explanation. Why didn't she do that earlier? She remembered Takano being the culprit which has never happened before - way too convenient. Irie tells Rika about the contigency plan to exterminate Hinamizawa's population just like that. Mion is suddenly Sherlock Holmes and figures out the faction rivalry in the Tokyo group. Akasaka happens to return to Hinamizawa in time for the final showdown. Everyone "remembers' Hanyuu. Too many coincidences and convenient plot developments for my taste.
Hanyuu is way too moe-cute. I can't take her seriously at all.
And last but not least, too little screentime for Suigintou again.
actually wasnt like nearly all the questions you put at explained at pieces =/ ? cept for everyone 'remembers' hanyuu.
also yes, she is a little god :P
FlareKnight
2007-11-17, 23:46
I guess I am the only who was quite disappointed by this episode. Maybe I was in too cynical mood when I watched it. :)
Hanyuu just decides to quit being just a spectator and takes a human form without much explanation. Why didn't she do that earlier? She remembered Takano being the culprit which has never happened before - way too convenient. Irie tells Rika about the contigency plan to exterminate Hinamizawa's population just like that. Mion is suddenly Sherlock Holmes and figures out the faction rivalry in the Tokyo group. Akasaka happens to return to Hinamizawa in time for the final showdown. Everyone "remembers' Hanyuu. Too many coincidences and convenient plot developments for my taste.
Hanyuu is way too moe-cute. I can't take her seriously at all.
And last but not least, too little screentime for Suigintou again.
Well maybe it was being in a cynical mood :). Most of the things weren't touigh to figure out from my position.
With Hanyuu not taking human form earlier. They certainly went over why she wanted to get involved and quit just standing around. I'd guess that turning into that form takes up some real energy that she didn't want to use before. They had been waiting for the right world that could allow them to finally win. But Hanyuu realized that sitting around isn't going to get you the victory. Seeing how hard everyone tried and the encouragement to join them pushed her to fight. So even if it used up some of the reserves it had to be done.
For remembering Takano. Well most of the times they had been drugged up so of course they never remembered. We saw the connection earlier in the series with the food so drugs would probably work the same way on both. But the last time they had avoided that and Rika had done everything to burn that memory into her mind. While the low reserves prohibited Rika remembering and nearly Hanyuu, Takano in all her creepiness did a nice job jogging the memory.
I'd admit the Ire bit did seem a little easy. Do wonder what on earth Rika asked to get the answer out of him. But I guess because she encouraged him with giving Satoko the treatment a few episodes ago he felt more able to be open with her and tell her more about things.
Don't think Mion is too bad. As some said she has a lot of experience being in the Sonozoki clan and being prepared to be the head. So heavier things like political maneuvering and conspiracies might be easier for her to wrap her head around than for the others.
Akasaka...Well I'd go with the obvious that seeing Hinamizawa in the file of the case that had been dropped triggered the memory. Digging in a bit out he found that all the cases had turned out perfectly so he had to head out. Do think if they added a piece about him it'd be even more obvious why he was out there.
Maybe you could call some convenient, but it's not like there aren't explanations for them. Besides we're talking a small girl going up against Takano and a massive conspiracy like this. A bit of help from the powers at be 'even more than Hanyuu :)' can't hurt things.
Not much explaination?
End of 13: The gang says the miracle didn't occur because Hanyuu wasn't with them.
End of 15: Hanyuu challenges Takano, saying we will not lose to your strong will.
End of 18: Rika says that Hanyuu is the last piece needed to beat Takano
beginning of 19: Hanyuu explains that it's necesasary for everyone to work together to beat fate
Mid 19: Hanyuu explains that she's been running from every fight, afraid of losing but now realizes that she can't win like that.
She remembered Takano being the culprit because this is the first time she knew. You can't remember what you never knew.
Irie doesn't like to keep anything from Rika but the emergency manual 34 was an exception. He probably felt she didn't need to know. But when she seriously asked about it, he couldn't help but tell her. That's how I interrupted the scene. I'm sure in the game it took a lot longer to convince Irie to spill the beans but then you'd complain about the slow pace.
To me the whole Mion scene was just a way to make the situation perfectly clear to the viewer. It was already kind of obvious what was going on. The scene just connected the dots in case you haven't already.
I[QUOTE] guess I am the only who was quite disappointed by this episode. Maybe I was in too cynical mood when I watched it. :)
Hanyuu just decides to quit being just a spectator and takes a human form without much explanation. Why didn't she do that earlier?
Not wanting to killed is a part of it. She's staking a centuries-old existence on this gamble and if everything else hadn't been in place she would lose.
She remembered Takano being the culprit which has never happened before - way too convenient.
Rika probably never refused the anesthetic before.
Irie tells Rika about the contigency plan to exterminate Hinamizawa's population just like that.
Rika never asked him before.
Mion is suddenly Sherlock Holmes and figures out the faction rivalry in the Tokyo group.
Mion is acquainted with the politics of criminal organisations.
Akasaka happens to return to Hinamizawa in time for the final showdown.
Hm. Shion isn't there though.
Everyone "remembers' Hanyuu.
The only person (apart from Rika) who remembers Hanyuu is Rena, and since Rena saw a vision of Hanyuu last episode, that's no great mystery.
BakaOnna
2007-11-18, 00:07
Mion is suddenly Sherlock Holmes and figures out the faction rivalry in the Tokyo group.
Well she's the heir of the Sonozaki house, who are basically the yakuza, if I'm not mistaken. She should understand what goes on with politics and conspiracies between political factions.
And as the others have already stated, much of Hanyuu's resolves were developed during the Pieces.
HashiriyaR32
2007-11-18, 00:23
The first half of the episode was nothing more than a big LMAO-fest!!
And somehow I knew that silver-haired woman was voiced by Rie Tanaka (Suigintou's seiyuu) even before I saw the credits.
The Bloodlust Kid
2007-11-18, 00:23
Well maybe it was being in a cynical mood :). Most of the things weren't touigh to figure out from my position.
With Hanyuu not taking human form earlier. They certainly went over why she wanted to get involved and quit just standing around. I'd guess that turning into that form takes up some real energy that she didn't want to use before. They had been waiting for the right world that could allow them to finally win. But Hanyuu realized that sitting around isn't going to get you the victory. Seeing how hard everyone tried and the encouragement to join them pushed her to fight. So even if it used up some of the reserves it had to be done.
For remembering Takano. Well most of the times they had been drugged up so of course they never remembered. We saw the connection earlier in the series with the food so drugs would probably work the same way on both. But the last time they had avoided that and Rika had done everything to burn that memory into her mind. While the low reserves prohibited Rika remembering and nearly Hanyuu, Takano in all her creepiness did a nice job jogging the memory.
I'd admit the Ire bit did seem a little easy. Do wonder what on earth Rika asked to get the answer out of him. But I guess because she encouraged him with giving Satoko the treatment a few episodes ago he felt more able to be open with her and tell her more about things.
Don't think Mion is too bad. As some said she has a lot of experience being in the Sonozoki clan and being prepared to be the head. So heavier things like political maneuvering and conspiracies might be easier for her to wrap her head around than for the others.
Akasaka...Well I'd go with the obvious that seeing Hinamizawa in the file of the case that had been dropped triggered the memory. Digging in a bit out he found that all the cases had turned out perfectly so he had to head out. Do think if they added a piece about him it'd be even more obvious why he was out there.
Maybe you could call some convenient, but it's not like there aren't explanations for them. Besides we're talking a small girl going up against Takano and a massive conspiracy like this. A bit of help from the powers at be 'even more than Hanyuu :)' can't hurt things.
QFT. Though the ending where Mion describes the conspiracies confused me a bit. I take it that Suigintou was never in the games in the first place? This'll be interesting.
Hanyuu is way too moe-cute. I can't take her seriously at all.Great job, you finally caught up with everybody else!
Rika never asked him before.
This doesn't explain why he should tell her the truth - that the village will be destroyed. And considering Rika has died so many times and was desperately trying to figure out why, it's totally implausible that it had never occured to her to ask Irie what he and his superior plan to do if the Queen Carrier dies suddenly.
Not wanting to killed is a part of it. She's staking a centuries-old existence on this gamble and if everything else hadn't been in place she would lose.
Oh, well, if she can take human form, why shouldn't she be able to go back to ghost when need be? Well, I am exaggerating but this whole affair of her turning into human with horns while no one finds that weird, even though Rika was not supposed to have alive relatives, is pushing my suspension of disbelief too much. It feels as if the writer really wanted to end the story, so he forced a lot of developments.
Mion is acquainted with the politics of criminal organisations.
And that makes her Sherlock Holmes? There could have been many reasons for the Tokyo group to want to destroy Hinamizawa, Mion solved the case so fast, there was almost no time for her to say "Elementary, my dear Watson". I think it would have been better if Rena had solved, she has already shown her detective skills.
The only person (apart from Rika) who remembers Hanyuu is Rena, and since Rena saw a vision of Hanyuu last episode, that's no great mystery.
Er, the others also said that it felt as if they had known her for a long time.
k//eternal
2007-11-18, 01:16
I think it would have been better if Rena had solved, she has already shown her detective skills.
The fact that Rena has already demonstrated this ability is exactly why it was Mion's turn this time. And as stated, it's exactly the sort of problem the yakuza would be expected to have to deal with.
That said, yes, Matsuribayashi DOES involve a ton of convenient and fortunate coincidences. If you don't like that, I think Miotsukushi would be much more to your taste, haha...
cereal_killerxx
2007-11-18, 03:31
The fact that Rena has already demonstrated this ability is exactly why it was Mion's turn this time. And as stated, it's exactly the sort of problem the yakuza would be expected to have to deal with.
That said, yes, Matsuribayashi DOES involve a ton of convenient and fortunate coincidences. If you don't like that, I think Miotsukushi would be much more to your taste, haha...
I'm not as drunk as you think I are @_@ Anyways, with that being said, I really like the conventient circumstances. It shows that fate is finally dealing them a good hand. Now all that's needed is the strategy and the miracle, and we can finally see that *ahem* stupid woman brought to justice xD
Rika doesn't lose her past worlds' memories, only the memories just before her death. She still remembers everything else.
Except for the memories from Minagoroshi-hen; she seems to have forgotten everything that took place there.
One theory I've read is that Frederica temporarily possesses Rika in some points (e.g. the meeting with Akasaka) even before her arrival in a world, but that seems both ad hoc and inelegant. Maybe someone should email Ryukishi07 and ask him about it. :)
Oh, well, if she can take human form, why shouldn't she be able to go back to ghost when need be? Well, I am exaggerating but this whole affair of her turning into human with horns while no one finds that weird, even though Rika was not supposed to have alive relatives, is pushing my suspension of disbelief too much. It feels as if the writer really wanted to end the story, so he forced a lot of developments.
One of the pieces implies that Hanyuu is now using her last chip; the reason she hadn't assumed human form before is that if she loses now then the her defeat will be permanent. It makes sense that she hadn't resorted to that before. Though I agree it is a bit strange that almost everyone ignores her horns.
theacefrehley
2007-11-18, 06:15
Just think what happened in Minagoroshi-hen in stark contrast with the other chapters: Akasaka believed Rika and saved Yukie, making him "useless" as he never heard the happy "murders foretelling".
When Rika "returns back in the time", any actions she did in the past is "set in stone". However, some factors can lead into different consequences.
Akasaka's situation is the best example.
Rika's action: warn Akasaka, asking him to get back to Tokyo.
Possibilities:
1) very very low: Akasaka trusted Rika's "intuition" and saves Yukie.
2) most of the time: Akasaka stays in Hinamizawa.
From point 2, there are various possibilities (Akasaka dies against the yamainu, etc).
AND THEN, some factors might make him remember about what Rika told him, the bizarre incidents in Hinamizawa.
Hanyuu's powers must be considered as a "reset the worlds, with factors shaping the most redundant points, while random factors kick in".
The later point is uncontrollable, and lead to some very different consequences (exemple: the "doll" scene).
When Hanyuu's "reboot" everything, changing into another "reality" or "dimension" (rather than timeline), the world itself is shaped with some randomization and "luck".
Thus, some events can be avoided and such. In such regards, Shion may or may not be with everyone, that really depends of everything. (as you can see, several batshit events might happen at the SAME TIME. I think some people might know what i'm talking about)
I guess somewhere they say
"the stronger the will, the higher the chance of things to become fate"
Shion going to the school
Rena talking to her Dad about Rina
The Doll incident
Akasaka taking Rika seriously or not
Ooishi being a good guy with the kids
etc...
All of these events depend on luck, in every world they might or might not turn out in a good way for Rika. By coincidence, in Minagoroshi most of them turned out good to Rika.
On the other way round there are events that always happen because there's a strong will wanting them to happen anyway (not necessarily only Takano)
One of my first thoughts on this episode was that finally Rena is being portrayed in what I've heard is her true game character. She doesn't stand there drooling and talking about taking things home, she takes the first possible opportunity to grab them and take them. Even so, did they have to tie Rena up with the same S&M pervert knot from the Inukami fellow?
If I understood this right, Hanyuu's a god, and has been able to use her power to repeatedly resurrect Rika by moving her soul into a past causal path. This takes incredible power, even for a god, and she's already been shown to be weakening by how short the jump was when everything came out. Finally, she's exhausted her power and become human, albeit a human with oddly adorable horns. I guess something about possessing a god's power made her stand slightly outside of the natural flow, so she couldn't be seen or heard very well. Now, however, her powers are gone, and she's become completely a part of this timeline, and so anchored is completely present with everyone.
I don't think it's surprising that Irie didn't tell Rika about #34. For one thing, Rika, not knowing who to trust, probably never directly asked about what the government would do in response to her death. I mean, she never knew for sure how much hope she had in any world, so she couldn't throw it away by alerting her enemy. Now that she knows who the enemy is, she's directly pursuing the matter with those who are her allies. Anyway, #34 doesn't sound like something that would come up in conversation, and Irie wouldn't waste time telling people about eventualities that he has to give his all to prevent. Just like he doesn't reveal to Satoko how sick she is, but instead focuses on finding a way to cure her.
Oh, well, if she can take human form, why shouldn't she be able to go back to ghost when need be? Well, I am exaggerating but this whole affair of her turning into human with horns while no one finds that weird, even though Rika was not supposed to have alive relatives, is pushing my suspension of disbelief too much. It feels as if the writer really wanted to end the story, so he forced a lot of developments.
I find it a little bit too unbelievable as well, though I feel it's more about forcing moe than wanting to end the story. I actually think the series would have been better off without so much moe in it. It works at times but usually I go :uhoh: when watching these early episodes of an arc.
The scene with Irie and Rika was hard to accept as well. I find it quite incredible that he would tell what appears to be a little girl of an emergency plan that involves wiping out the village. An ordinary girl of her age would probably be traumatized if told something like that by a figure of authority like Irie (being a doctor and all).
Likewise, a girl of Rika's biological age couldn't possibly come up with the kind of plot she was planning for her "manga", so you'd think her older friends would find it strange. Oh and Rika and Satoko would not be allowed to live together in a house without any adults. Things like this I feel are the one weakness the whole series suffers from. If the story was ever re-written in a more believe form I could see it becoming a world wide success as a novel series.
The scene with Irie and Rika was hard to accept as well. I find it quite incredible that he would tell what appears to be a little girl of an emergency plan that involves wiping out the village. An ordinary girl of her age would probably be traumatized if told something like that by a figure of authority like Irie (being a doctor and all).
Rika already knows that she's the Queen Carrier and if she's killed, everyone will enter the terminal stage. She knows all about Hinamizawa Syndrome. This was all explained to her several years ago before she agreed to help with their research. Rika is no ordinary girl.
Likewise, a girl of Rika's biological age couldn't possibly come up with the kind of plot she was planning for her "manga", so you'd think her older friends would find it strange.
Perhaps they did feel it weird but they're not going to say anything. That would be rude. Rika is their friend. Besides she's already shown in the past to have abnormal intellect for her age. Mion even comments on this in one of the Pieces; Saying that sometimes she feels like she's actually the younger one.
. Oh and Rika and Satoko would not be allowed to live together in a house without any adults.
Rika and Satoko live together but Irie provides them with living money. You could say he's their unofficial caretaker. Living together was probably Rika's idea and no one is going to question her. We already know how much the villagers kiss her ass.
Likewise, a girl of Rika's biological age couldn't possibly come up with the kind of plot she was planning for her "manga", so you'd think her older friends would find it strange.
Everyone already knows that Rika is a little(very) mature for their age, so most possibly they have learned to cope and live with it. Nevertheless, we have yet to see the rest of the episodes to see if this revelation has any further repercussion.
And that makes her Sherlock Holmes? There could have been many reasons for the Tokyo group to want to destroy Hinamizawa, Mion solved the case so fast, there was almost no time for her to say "Elementary, my dear Watson". I think it would have been better if Rena had solved, she has already shown her detective skills.
This is just my personal opinion, but I would guess that he got the tip (sort of) from her previous self in Yoigoshi-hen (manga arc) world. If that's the case that would explain why he sees conspirationist theories everywhere :p.
That said, yes, Matsuribayashi DOES involve a ton of convenient and fortunate coincidences. If you don't like that, I think Miotsukushi would be much more to your taste, haha...
Well, then too bad it's not going to be animated, I just read on wikipedia that apparently it's the bittersweet real ending of Higurashi.
I find it a little bit too unbelievable as well, though I feel it's more about forcing moe than wanting to end the story. I actually think the series would have been better off without so much moe in it. It works at times but usually I go :uhoh: when watching these early episodes of an arc.
I actually liked most early episode but Hanyuu made it too much moe this time around, it almost came through as a device to take the attention of the viewers from the plot holes and convenient coincidences. Well, they better make this human form Hanyuu really help the cause of Riak and the rest to justify it all - shouldn't a ghost form have been more helpful with her ability to spy on Takano and her minions without being seen?
Is Shion gonna come into play any time soon?
The gang wouldn't bet complete without her as everyone's effort to cope with fate is a mandatory requirement for success.
This doesn't explain why he should tell her the truth - that the village will be destroyed. And considering Rika has died so many times and was desperately trying to figure out why, it's totally implausible that it had never occured to her to ask Irie what he and his superior plan to do if the Queen Carrier dies suddenly.
Oh, well, if she can take human form, why shouldn't she be able to go back to ghost when need be? Well, I am exaggerating but this whole affair of her turning into human with horns while no one finds that weird, even though Rika was not supposed to have alive relatives, is pushing my suspension of disbelief too much. It feels as if the writer really wanted to end the story, so he forced a lot of developments.
And that makes her Sherlock Holmes? There could have been many reasons for the Tokyo group to want to destroy Hinamizawa, Mion solved the case so fast, there was almost no time for her to say "Elementary, my dear Watson". I think it would have been better if Rena had solved, she has already shown her detective skills.
Well Mion's suggestion as to why it was happened didn't matter for the plot. It was just for the really slow in the audience who need such things spelled out. As for Rika, I believed she was caught just as much anyone else by the idea of Oyashiro-Sama's curse, not of course that the kami was out to get her, but that she was constantly dying because someone always succumbed to the syndrome during Watanagashi and went after her. It was only the last time that it occured to her that her killer actually had a motive beyond paranoia.
Of course undeniably, in the final story a lot of "coincidences" have to happen. But of course they aren't coincidences at all. The supernatural element is very real. What's the point in having a god on your side if your prayers can't be answered?
RadiumEyes
2007-11-18, 20:25
The scene with Irie and Rika was hard to accept as well. I find it quite incredible that he would tell what appears to be a little girl of an emergency plan that involves wiping out the village. An ordinary girl of her age would probably be traumatized if told something like that by a figure of authority like Irie (being a doctor and all).
Considering that Rika already knows the whole Hinamizawa shebang makes it easier for Irie to tell her about the emergency plan. Plus, I do presume that Irie is taking into account Rika's reactions to past revelations (that she is the Queen Carrier).
As for Rika being traumatized, we all know Rika is not ordinary.
Of course undeniably, in the final story a lot of "coincidences" have to happen. But of course they aren't coincidences at all. The supernatural element is very real. What's the point in having a god on your side if your prayers can't be answered?
Agreed. Plus, it looks like the process of "changing fate" is already starting.
Of course undeniably, in the final story a lot of "coincidences" have to happen. But of course they aren't coincidences at all. The supernatural element is very real. What's the point in having a god on your side if your prayers can't be answered?
That would have been a valid argument had we actually seen Hanyuu using her supernatural powers to make all these "coincidences" happen. As far as I understand it, it was not some godly power that made Irie spill the beans about the emergency plan, Hanyuu didn't make Akasaka magically remember Irie's clinic at the right time when he would be needed or enchanted the villagers not to be bothered by her horns. If she did all that and we were just not shown it (or I somehow missed it) then I would be more than glad to admit I was wrong.
In that case you may want to give piece 51 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=750889&postcount=53) a read. You might also want to follow Kashiklari's (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/11/13/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-18-analysis-thoughts-and-random-comments/#comment-1767) directions for maximizing the emotional impact :p
kingsky123
2007-11-19, 05:28
i find it odd that hanyuu is actually a small girl rather than an adult. =/. she should be an adult considering her past. kinda odd for her to pushback
k//eternal
2007-11-19, 09:44
I don't think her form actually means that much.
FlareKnight
2007-11-19, 09:52
Maybe Hanyuu was that age when she was turned into 'a god' and thus will always appear like that. That or she looks that age in order to fit in with Rika more and can adjust that as she feels.
That would have been a valid argument had we actually seen Hanyuu using her supernatural powers to make all these "coincidences" happen. As far as I understand it, it was not some godly power that made Irie spill the beans about the emergency plan, Hanyuu didn't make Akasaka magically remember Irie's clinic at the right time when he would be needed or enchanted the villagers not to be bothered by her horns. If she did all that and we were just not shown it (or I somehow missed it) then I would be more than glad to admit I was wrong.
Well with Ire I'd say its more of a combination. Rika actually inquiring about this kind of thing may be playing the key role. Since she has shown real maturity to Ire if she asks about things like this he may be more willing to talk about it. Though if Hanyuu hadn't remembered Takano being responsible then she probably would never ask it. So maybe not using powers per say other than remembering from a previous world.
I'd say Akasaka remmbering was a little more supernatural. Agree checking out Piece 51 (with the accompanying BGM :D) will show just why he would remember this time and would show up. While Hanyuu didn't pop up over at his place and explain the situation it wasn't just some stroke of really random luck that he'd come this time.
MezzoDragon
2007-11-19, 10:10
She may just wanted to optimize her moeness; trying to overthrow Rika as the Queen of Moe.
Zeroryoko1974
2007-11-19, 11:10
The one thing I wondered about ep 19 was.....
Who did the knot tying on Rena:naughty::twitch:
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5407/snapshot20071119064020js6.jpg
cereal_killerxx
2007-11-19, 12:38
The one thing I wondered about ep 19 was.....
Who did the knot tying on Rena:naughty::twitch:
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5407/snapshot20071119064020js6.jpg
Rena's facial expression makes me laugh so hard! xD
ImpulseRAven
2007-11-19, 12:40
The one thing I wondered about ep 19 was.....
Who did the knot tying on Rena:naughty::twitch:
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5407/snapshot20071119064020js6.jpg
idk but whoever did it has good taste:p
Probably Keiichi since he's the one standing beside her.
Sterling01
2007-11-19, 13:20
Keichi knows japanese bondage?
k//eternal
2007-11-19, 13:44
Not well enough, apparently.
MezzoDragon
2007-11-19, 13:48
Rena gains superhuman strength when trying to take home a loli.
Zeroryoko1974
2007-11-19, 14:11
Her moe power is over 9000. Tentacle monsters fear her
i find it odd that hanyuu is actually a small girl rather than an adult. =/. she should be an adult considering her past. kinda odd for her to pushback
I assume that Hanyuu is a small girl to match Rika. They aren't entirely separate, after all.
MezzoDragon
2007-11-19, 16:34
Hanyuu is taller than Rika. Buster too.
That would have been a valid argument had we actually seen Hanyuu using her supernatural powers to make all these "coincidences" happen. As far as I understand it, it was not some godly power that made Irie spill the beans about the emergency plan, Hanyuu didn't make Akasaka magically remember Irie's clinic at the right time when he would be needed or enchanted the villagers not to be bothered by her horns. If she did all that and we were just not shown it (or I somehow missed it) then I would be more than glad to admit I was wrong.
In fact explaining that Rika and Hanyuu are making these things happen was the point of Hanyuu's confrontation with Takano at the end of Takano's story. You can make things happen if you have enough force of unserving will to make things happen. Rika and Hanyuu now have that combined will to beat Takano and know where to point it. Irie tells Rika what will happen because his will is weak and her will is strong. Keiichi can turn that poor baseball player inside out with idiotic arguments because Keiichi's will is strong. And so on.
Maybe Hanyuu was that age when she was turned into 'a god' and thus will always appear like that. That or she looks that age in order to fit in with Rika more and can adjust that as she feels.
It's probably the latter.
Hanyuu ordered her daughter (http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7820/16hy6.jpg) to sacrifice her, which means she must have been at least in her late 20s when she died.
You can make things happen if you have enough force of unserving will to make things happen.
No you can't, unless you actually do something to achieve these things. It's not as if Rika interrogated Irie for hours before he spilled the beans.
Keiichi can turn that poor baseball player inside out with idiotic arguments because Keiichi's will is strong.
I am not thrilled by this aspect of the story, either, so...And he achieves that not only because of his strong will anyway (he is supposed to be pretty much a genius) so I really don't see the relevance of this example.
In that case you may want to give piece 51 (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=750889&postcount=53) a read. You might also want to follow Kashiklari's (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/11/13/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-18-analysis-thoughts-and-random-comments/#comment-1767) directions for maximizing the emotional impact
Well, that's all fine but it doesn't make the anime any less flawed, until up to now at least, does it?
Guardian Enzo
2007-11-19, 21:26
Having no experience to this mythos prior to the animes, I must confess I absolutely love the device of Rika using a "manga" as a way to test drive ideas for her salvation. Is that true to the game?
barefoot
2007-11-19, 21:38
no. . . hanyuu!!! where is my shrine maiden costume!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kingsky123
2007-11-20, 01:57
Irie tells Rika what will happen because his will is weak and her will is strong. Keiichi can turn that poor baseball player inside out with idiotic arguments because Keiichi's will is strong. And so on.
huh??? no irie tells rika because she asked =/. its not about will or anything. rika just wanted to know and irie feels responsible to tell her since she is an important test subject.
and keiichi can turn that dude inside out cause that dude actually believes whatever he says.
Keiichi can turn that poor baseball player inside out with idiotic arguments because Keiichi's will is strong. And so on.
Keiichi convincing Kameda has nothing to do with his will. He has done it before in Tatarigoroshi-hen, and his "Magician of words" power has show as early as Watanagashi-hen
Sinestra
2007-11-20, 08:52
Hanyuu is so cute it hurts im not surprised they had to tie Rena up eventually. THings are moving pretty fast and even if Rika only used the manga excuse to get ideas her friends are still united behind her and Hanyuu i think with her as an additon to the group they will be even stronger. Im looking forward to the show down and if Keiichi plays a large role again which im sure he will. We all suspected it but this is the last time around this is their last chance to get it right.
Heresiarch
2007-11-20, 10:59
HMMM...both being horned girls why Lucy from Elfen Lied doesn't receive the same treatment like Hanyuu....
MezzoDragon
2007-11-20, 11:12
Perhaps it is because Lucy and Nana resemble imps while Hanyuu resembles a goat.
Klashikari
2007-11-20, 12:40
*sigh* very late, I hope i won't screw next weeks, or I won't last long...
Episode 19: Analysis (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/11/20/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-19-analysis-thoughts-and-random-comments/)
episode 20 summary and screencaps are under work.
Keiichi convincing Kameda has nothing to do with his will. He has done it before in Tatarigoroshi-hen, and his "Magician of words" power has show as early as Watanagashi-hen
What's your point? Keiichi's willpower isn't something that that just lately appeared. It was always there.
What's your point? Keiichi's willpower isn't something that that just lately appeared. It was always there.
That's exactly my point. Keiichi's willpower isn't something that has always been there. It's a product of "learning from his mistakes" from the previous chapters. Becuase he learned from his past mistakes, he has a stronger trust towards his friends and the willpower to overcome problems. Rika talks about this in Minagoroshi-hen.
That's exactly my point. Keiichi's willpower isn't something that has always been there. It's a product of "learning from his mistakes" from the previous chapters. Becuase he learned from his past mistakes, he has a stronger trust towards his friends and the willpower to overcome problems. Rika talks about this in Minagoroshi-hen.
It isn't enough to have the weapon. You have to know where to aim it.
One thing that surprises me, incidentally, is that Hanyuu turned out to be a bokuko just like Rika. I hadn't noticed until this episode because Hanyuu hasn't been talking about herself much.
MezzoDragon
2007-11-23, 14:08
What is a bokuko?
Klashikari
2007-11-23, 14:10
Boku: masculine "I". (Keiichi uses "ore", which is informal, Rena uses her own first name (not incorrect, but not really common) while Mion uses "oji-san" ^^)
the usual "ko" is added at the end of a word to refers to a girl (or sometimes, to turn a character into female, like archerko)
in fact, it is because of hanyuu that Rika uses "Boku".
in fact, it is because of hanyuu that Rika uses "Boku".
Though Rika only does that when she's acting like a child; when she's serious she uses "watashi".
I wonder why Hanyuu uses "boku". As far as I know that pronoun can be used by tomboys, but Hanyuu certainly doesn't strike me as such.
Klashikari
2007-11-23, 16:55
No, it doesn't have anything to do with "tomboy" or such. (see Ayu, in Kanon)
Reason behind this can be anything anyway.
No, it doesn't have anything to do with "tomboy" or such. (see Ayu, in Kanon)
Reason behind this can be anything anyway.
Yeah but Ayu's really weird. Still, "boku" has become more common among girls in the past decade, perhaps influenced by fictional girls who use "boku" to announce their unconventionality. Using "boku" would have been very strange for a girl in 1983 who wasn't boyish as I understand it. Of course perhaps Hanyuu uses "boku" because as Oyashiro-sama, she is thought to be male.
kingsky123
2007-11-23, 22:26
i thought they used boku because like it shows her rank... like greater than? Because they are revered as something else hence 'boku'
k//eternal
2007-11-24, 05:43
i thought they used boku because like it shows her rank... like greater than? Because they are revered as something else hence 'boku'
No way. If she was being crass like that she'd use "ore" and that's still not quite on the mark...
I think Davidj has it, but it's hard to tell for sure. Whatever, nobody's going to question a goddess' speech habits :)
Klashikari
2007-11-24, 05:47
Nope. AFAIK, for "big entities" royalties etc, such character uses "we" (ware) or some very archaic "I" (like Watakushi)
As for Hanyuu, Davidj probably pointed the correct answer: supposed to be a god (she says Kami, so god. Not Megami which is goddess), and so: Male.
theacefrehley
2007-11-24, 06:02
"Boku" is sometimes used by girls who want to be part of group of boys or girls who hang around with boys more than with girls. As if these girls are "boys".
But it doesn't fit Hanyuu either :D
k//eternal
2007-11-24, 07:19
Nope. AFAIK, for "big entities" royalties etc, such character uses "we" (ware) or some very archaic "I" (like Watakushi)
Ah, right. I had a feeling there was some term I was forgetting, but the only thing that came to mind was "waga" and that's not the right part of speech at all.
Nope. AFAIK, for "big entities" royalties etc, such character uses "we" (ware) or some very archaic "I" (like Watakushi)
Just for the record, Watakushi is not really an archaic form, but the formal form of watashi (kenjougo). It is more humble than watashi (it would translate to something like 'my humble self'), and thus it is user by politicians in public speeches, in business meetings and the such.
Ware,waga and the such is more like mafia, big-corporation like. The pronoun normally used by royalty is "yo", and if you want to get your arrogance across ore is more appropiate, however all of these are male-oriented.
Watashi can be used by female's in most situations, with Watakushi being used in the more formal ones ones. It is more difficult for a female to get arrogance across and still remain formal, however using Watashi and forgoing keigo (formal speech) in a formal ocassion can do the trick.
A female using "boku" is just tomboyish. However there is a recent trend in otaku culture for females using boku and somehow being cute. I don't understand the specifics, but I've heard many of Mizuki Nana's recent songs with that idea.
BTW the reason of Rika using boku is precisely because she copied Hanyuu's speech. There is a TIP that deals with this specifically IIRC:
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.