Clannad - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Clannad, Episode 8.

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[Kang Seung Jae]

I keep remembering the sentence Tomoya said in the preview:

"It is shallow bonds like this that are forgotten first....."

[toxic_trance]

Iyaaaaaaaa...first line stolen >.<

Well neway...didnt expect this thread to come up so fast. The week went too quick..too many exams

Neway..this will be another gr8 episode... will this be the end of Fuko arc???

[Klashikari]

Iyaaaaaaaa...first line stolen >.<
While I (and probably other people) appreciate and share your enthusiast, I believe it shouldn't go so overboard, to the point of displaying such, with posts like "first!", etc. Nothing like spam, but it is preferrable to wait the said episode, then give your appreciation etc :)

This is of course even more true for *cough* premature votes i "guess".

[Zarn]

I can't wait to see what happens next, I need my fix!

[eMpTy265]

Screenshots are up, courtesy of Omni @ Random Curiousity (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/):


A little less crying in this episode, but plot-wise things are becoming more serious.


In short, more and more people are forgetting about Fuko. As the last of the gang (e.g. Fujibayashi sisters, Sunohara, and Sanae) start to forget the existence of Fuko, Tomoya and Nagisa stay by Fuko's side for the last part of her dream


*Resists the urge to compare this to ep.2 of SnS s1, because it should be completely different.
(Must be because I just rewatched the movie ver)

***

To keep things from becoming too serious, there's were several humorous moments:
(e.g. AkioXSanae / starfish > Tomoya (the star?) > seaslug?!, interesting to know Tomoya ranks between a starfish and a seaslug... orz)

... and fanservice in the form of a bath scene


(I think it was a NagisaXFuko in the VFB: anthology illustration 3, but they changed it here to reflect Fuko's closeness to Sanae)



P.S. I REALLY like the TomoyaXNagisa dynamics here, their relationship is developed much better compared to their counterparts in Air/Kanon :)

[minhtam1638]

Oh, boy, Fuko went first, just as Makoto went first. Who's next? ??? pulling a Mai?

[Mirrinus]

Hmm...sort of disappointed that Fuuko's arc didn't end this episode, as I'm worried about the pacing and timing of the rest of the story. Fuuko's arc is suppose to be the longest after Nagisa's though, right? We'll see if they could pull off the rest of the stories well...

I'm assuming we're going to forego the stories of some of the side characters in the interest of time, like Kappei's or maybe Yukine's. Maybe not Sunohara's, though, judging by the OP. Makes me really wonder how the overall storyboarding is going to go. Unless they do the After Story in a separate cour...which isn't likely, if the OP is any indication.

[Proto]

I guess this episode will suit those who want their heartstrings pulled and played with.


The repetition of how more and more, and yet more people forgot about Fuuko was hurtful to see, specially for those people who didn't actually want to forget. I never got teary eyed, but I suspect I won't be able to mantain my manliness facade next episode :heh:

Also, it was a very clever trick on KyoAni's scriptwriter part how as the episode went on, Fuuko had less and less lines, and how Tomoya and Nagisa spent more time talking about how everyone was forgetting about Fuuko, almost as if they were supporting each other as to not forget, than actually talking with Fuuko.



If you can, avoid watching the preview. What will happen is obvious but I think we should maximize the effect by making it as much of a surprise as possible.

[Klashikari]

usual bullet summary, quite another nice episode

Episode 8: bullet summary and screencaps (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/clannad-episode-8/)

The most emotional thing was probably how Youhei struggled to remember. Seriously, his character was alreayd likable to me, but he got serious and solid points with his caring side.
This episode was very well structured for the whole sorrowful evolution of this predicament, without any melodrama, except maybe Sanae, which isn't negative at all.
I felt a lot empathic for this (not on verge of crying at all, but well struck, hands down), and they actually show how strong the bounds and attachement are. Next episode will surely pull a huge impact.

[Shiroth]

Episode 08 was ;___;. With it being so ;___;, i don't even want to imagine what it's going to be like in later episodes.

Even that preview was ;___;.

[Deathkillz]

Hmm...sort of disappointed that Fuuko's arc didn't end this episode, as I'm worried about the pacing and timing of the rest of the story. Fuuko's arc is suppose to be the longest after Nagisa's though, right? We'll see if they could pull off the rest of the stories well...

think fuko...think makoto :heh:

ye ouch...slight heart pains...

everyone, even those closest ones to fuko is beginning to forget her one by one...what pain it is to see how they try hard to remember but in the end cannot do so.

i think i have a new found respect for sunohara...alas she is no longer the jackass clown whos sole existance is to be beated up by tomoyo that i once thought he was...i just love the way he expressed how serious he was with the situation...and how hard he fought to retain the last fragment of memory of fuko...that was really painful to watch as he tells tomoya and nagisa that he didnt really hate fuko...

then there was nagisa's family...oh the pain ;___;

the preview seems to be the end of this...time to brace myself for a flood of tears...maybe...

[Moridin]

ye ouch...slight heart pains...

everyone, even those closest ones to fuko is beginning to forget her one by one...what pain it is to see how they try hard to remember but in the end cannot do so.

i think i have a new found respect for sunohara...alas she is no longer the jackass clown whos sole existance is to be beated up by tomoyo that i once thought he was...i just love the way he expressed how serious he was with the situation...and how hard he fought to retain the last fragment of memory of fuko...that was really painful to watch as he tells tomoya and nagisa that he didnt really hate fuko...

then there was nagisa's family...oh the pain ;___;

the preview seems to be the end of this...time to brace myself for a flood of tears...maybe...

I agree!
In the begining of Clannad, fuko was just a cute and likable character for me, nothing more. And she remaind that way for verry long. But now, thanks to this whole slow "forgettfullness" by everyone around her, I´m starting to feel for her more and more. This is so much more effective then if she had dissapeared in a fast way.
I´m actually a little nervous about watching the next episode because of how much I have started to like her... I finished Air in one sitting, and Kanon i finished in 2 days, so fuko will be the character that has had the longest time to grow on me.
And the worst part about it all, is that i cant see a way for this to end that would make me happy :(
sure, she might be around long enough for her to see her sisters wedding... but then what?! when the "dream" ends, maybe the real fuko wakes up.. MAYBE. And if she do wake up, does she then have the memories from the dream? It must be painfull to have those, when noone else around her has them. And if she doesn´t have the memories, then she is in the same situation as before the accident, with the big difference that now, the most important person in her life, her sister, has moved on.

[Leo_Otaku]

This episode ha be so teary eyed >.< Episode 9 will be the one that takes it though.
I agree the sunohara scene was done well as the one with Sanae at the end.
I can't wait till next week ^-^

For episode pacing Tomoyo's won't be too long i bet it will be kotomi and Nagisa that take up most of it. But then we got Misae, Kappei and so on.... how do you divide up 15 episodes....

[velocity7]

I like some of your guesses on how Fuuko's route will end. Let's just say Fuuko's not an animal, and I'll just leave it at that. :)

[todkapuz]

awwww Fuuko ...... I'm glad that mom still tried to remember.

Honestly I am starting to worry about the pacing of the series... so many more main routes to go plus an after story??? hmm... and we're 1/3rd the way through (I think) the planned time? .. hmmmmmm ..... I dunno.. going to hate watching next weeks..... I reallly need some more Kotomi-chan~~~~~~~~~~ time.

[atividia]

Holy cow. The end of this episode was a huge tear jerker. I hope this doesn't end the way I think it will.

10/10 for me on this one.

[grey_moon]

That was unbelievably sad.


Not just for Fuuko, but for each person who forgot her.

I really have to commend Tomoya and Nagisa for how they do their best to support Fuuko, and even though they can see her efforts disappearing moment by moment.

I know that lots of people have said that they haven't been able to form an emotional attachment to the whole Fuuko arc, but personally I'm finding this very sad.

Parts which really tugged my heart strings was when

Tomoya tried to cheer Fuuko on when they were on the way home.

Each time someone forgot about her.

How she carried on what seems to be a hopeless mission and everyone just kept ignoring her.

Each time Nagisa wanted to cry

And finally when Nagisa's mum couldn't see her, but tried to cover it up.

[Excorsism]

Great episode. The scene I liked the most was Sunohara's attempt to remember Fuuko after saying her name on impulse. Respect to Sunohara +10000.

If I were to be in this sort of situation, I would honestly try to get myself to remember that missing piece from my memory. It would be an annoying feeling, I bet.

[Itadakimasu!]

Awesome... I like the character depth in Sunohara, as well as the latent emotional power of this episode. Deserves a 10 out of 10

[endlezz]

;_; I agree, Sunohara scenes were great. I liked his determination to travel to another city to check on Fuko, makes him a very respectable person. Too bad he suffers the same fate as the others in the end.

Although I am starting to like Fuko I am glad its over with next episode (at least thats my guess). Time to move on to the other characters. Who knows, maybe Kyoani will surprise is with "TADA, Clannad is actually 32 episodes, we used all the money saved on Lucky Star for it." (not that i disliked LS haha ;) )

[toxic_trance]

WOW.. now that left me with a real heavy heart. Very nice development on Sunohara..a totally new side of his..and a very nice one at that.

I felt pins pricking my heart when Sanae-san was crying.

Initially, I thought that this would be an Ayu arc..but it is turning into something really beautiful and way different from the Ayu arc. All I can hope for is everyone do visit Ibuki sensei's wedding

The preview has left me even more in sadness... I am definitely waiting for the next episode..but kinda scared to see it since i dont think I can handle that much of sadness

Also 10 points for the awesome development between Nagisa and Tomoya. This pair is competing with Syaoran and Sakura for me
Beautiful waterside animation...this episode was really beautiful

Fuuko has turned out to be an awesome character contrary to my feelings about her in the start. Next week most probably will be last in the Fuuko arc..It has been a great experience

definitely a 9..and i guess i can almost predict what my next week rating is gonna be

[Kristen]

Really, really great and teary episode. It's not Makoto in terms of tears, but it is extremely close. At first, this seemed like it could be an Ayu arc, but it really is developing into something real special.
I would have given it a ten, but it seemed a tiny bit dragged out towards the end. It didn't seem that way, and I would have loved for it to continue. But it just seemed like I kept on expecting Dango Daikazaku to start playing...

If this series continues the way it is going, it could very likely top Kanon in my favorite animes.

[Kinny Riddle]

For the first time in the story, even if he hasn't given people any impression of being "cool", Sunohara has at least become more or less dignified by feeling sad that he's forgetting Fuuko.

I'm surprised that Fuuko's story didn't end this episode, but with the BGM in the preview and Fuuko's monologue, it has to end in the next.

Two types of people that forget Fuuko:
1. Those without any strong bonds to Fuuko - these forget her first (Mitsui, Tomoyo, Kyou and Ryou, etc)
2. Those with closer bonds to Fuuko - the moment they see (Sunohara), know about (Tomoya and Nagisa, not yet, but well, we all know it's an eventuality) or even think about what happened to (Sanae-san) the real Fuuko (lying in her hospital bed) will begin to forget her existence...almost like a Torch. ARGH! Must remind myself not to watch Shana before reading Fuuko's story. Kouko-san sees the real Fuuko ALL THE TIME, so she never even gets to see this Fuuko, let alone forget.

Ayu's astral projection powers is definitely above Fuuko, even after disappearing, everyone that has met her still remembers her.

Make sure you have a box of Kleenex next week if your heart is easily moved.

[minhtam1638]

For the first time in the story, even if he hasn't given people any impression of being "cool", Sunohara has at least become more or less dignified by feeling sad that he's forgetting Fuuko.

I'm surprised that Fuuko's story didn't end this episode, but with the BGM in the preview and Fuuko's monologue, it has to end in the next.

Two types of people that forget Fuuko:
1. Those without any strong bonds to Fuuko - these forget her first (Mitsui, Tomoyo, Kyou and Ryou, etc)
2. Those with closer bonds to Fuuko - the moment they see (Sunohara), know about (Tomoya and Nagisa, not yet, but well, we all know it's an eventuality) or even think about what happened to (Sanae-san) the real Fuuko (lying in her hospital bed) will begin to forget her existence...almost like a Torch. ARGH! Must remind myself not to watch Shana before reading Fuuko's story. Kouko-san sees the real Fuuko ALL THE TIME, so she never even gets to see this Fuuko, let alone forget.

Ayu's astral projection powers is definitely above Fuuko, even after disappearing, everyone that has met her still remembers her.

Make sure you have a box of Kleenex next week if your heart is easily moved.

Oh, no, you didn't just do a Shana reference. Now this will make the next episode even more painful for me...

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

So sad but so worth watching. The next episode looks to be shaping up to be quite the tear jerker. :(

[Ascaloth]

Watched the TWH-Sprocket sub of Episode 8. (EDIT: fixed by velocity7. What the hell was I thinking?! -_-" )

Unlike the last two episodes' method of holding back the impact at the very end, this was just hammerblow after hammerblow. Heck, I almost asphyxiated when we came to the scene where it was Sunohara's turn to forget....damn, man.

In a way, Fuuko's story reminds me of Hazuki Mizuna's story in the free VN A Dream Of Summer (http://at2006.haeleth.net/game.php?id=16), and it's turning out to be just as beautiful. There's something about this episode though, that prevented me from going perfect 10.....so it's a 9, for this week. I'm not sure what it is, really.

Blog article coming soon.

EDIT: Did I mention that the water fountain scene was just pure KyoAni-style overkill? I can hardly believe that's animation instead of an actual fountain. O_O

[komichi]

I actually like the fact that they're dragging this out and toy with our emotion... the built up is extremely heartfelt and finally it ends next week, this will make one painful weight to take off with a good cry.

9/10

[velocity7]

Watched the TWH-Sprocket sub of Episode 8.

Fixed. :)

I particularly liked the emotional parts of this episode... pretty strong. In fact, they're brought out much more strongly than they were in the game, and speaking of which:

Nagisa is being brought out more as a main protagonist much like Tomoya is... at this point, she was supposed to have forgotten at the same time Sanae did (and was supposed to have a cold too)...

I had translated all the game scripts that had to do with this episode and the next, though it's been a while since I looked back at them. Needless to say, should be good stuff for you all. :)

[Divini]

Finished analyzing screentimes.


Main Char / Supporting Char[TH]
Okazaki Tomoya
Furukawa Nagisa
Ibuki Fuko
Sunohara Youhei
Furukawa Sanae
Furukawa Akio
Fujibayashi Kyou
Fujibayashi Ryou
Mitsui
Sakagami Tomoyo
Sagara Misae
20:39
18:08
16:59
4:49
3:22
2:28
0:57
0:57
0:57
0:48
0:43


Main Char / Supporting Char
Okazaki Tomoya
Furukawa Nagisa
Ibuki Fuko
Sunohara Youhei
Fujibayashi Ryou
Fujibayashi Kyou
Furukawa Sanae
Ibuki Kouko
Sakagami Tomoyo
Furukawa Akio
(Mysterious Girl / Voice)
Ichinose Kotomi
Miyazawa Yukine
Yoshino Yuuske
Botan
Mitsui
Sagara Misae
Toshio Koumura
Okazaki Naoyuki2:40:56
1:44:52
1:09:55
44:36
15:36
14:19
13:41
13:14
12:06
8:45
4:46
4:19
2:38
2:37
2:34
2:29
1:44
1:38
1:05



Wow... this episode was so emotional.

As Ascaloth said, this episode continuously pounded sorrow in my head over and over again. I expected everyone to start forgetting, but wow, KyoAni executed it so very well.

Sunohara's struggle to remember Fuko had a deep impact on me... Trying to find out the truth about Fuuko, remembering her name for a fleeting moment, and how his emotions came out when he received the starfish... That guy went down fighting to the very end, which is so in-line with his character. :)

And if that wasn't sad enough, Sanae's scene had the same if not more of a tear-jerking effect on me.

I think I'm going to need a box of tissues for the next episode.

[Ascaloth]

Blog article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD (TV), Episode 08 (http://www.riuva.com/?p=859)

Sorry for the crappy article, I had to rush this past midnight, and it's past 3am here now. Good night, all.

[IRJustman]

[I also posted this on Ascaloth's entry (twice; I didn't see the first one probably due to an AJAX failure on my side of things, dunno), but I figured it'd be worth repeating here.]

I think what really got me was that Sanae is far more cognizant of what's really happening than the other supporting cast. And this time, her crying is far more genuine.

--Ian.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Well I got what I expected, but since I don't really feel that much of an emotional connection to Fuko (still think of her as a small dog more than anything) I'm not getting the emotional tear-jerking that others do. It takes a lot more than what I've been given by the gibberish-spewing moeblob that is Fuko to really be saddened by a death or fading away. Also as it's episode 8 we get the bathtub scene (I've noticed that Kyoto tends to throw in the service around episode 8, happened with Lucky Star's....frig what was her name, [I spent like 5 minutes trying to remember her name] Miyuki's breast jiggling relay race, Suzumiya Haruhi's er....shirtless cave getaway, and I believe Makoto might have been getting a bath in Kanon episode 8), which was pure eyecandy.

Other then that this episode was a 6 for me, because it was exactly what I thought it would be, but little more.

Also, No more 4chan style memes (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/CLANNAD/CLANNAD%20-%2008%20-%20Large%2020.jpg) please Kyoani. This joke was old before it's time.:heh:

[Deathkillz]

Well I got what I expected, but since I don't really feel that much of an emotional connection to Fuko (still think of her as a small dog more than anything) I'm not getting the emotional tear-jerking that others do. It takes a lot more than what I've been given by the gibberish-spewing moeblob that is Fuko to really be saddened by a death or fading away (:
while im not a fuko fan in any way (more interested to see what tomoyo has installed for us :3) i think that this ep is worth the emotion that is expressed to the viewers...perhaps you are looking at it on the wrong side of things seen as what i found most depressing wasnt the fact that fuko was disappearing, but rather how the others are having a hard time trying to remember a girl that they knew...sunohara won major points from me seeing how he can be a sensitive fellow and sanae's breakdown was just heart gripping...
now i have some pity for fuko at least ;__;

[IRJustman]

Other then that this episode was a 6 for me, because it was exactly what I thought it would be, but little more.

Wow, for someone who seriously dislikes this series, you're sure hanging onto it.

Also, doesn't your message contain a massive spoiler for a future event?

--Ian.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Wow, for someone who seriously dislikes this series, you're sure hanging onto it.

Also, doesn't your message contain a massive spoiler for a future event?

--Ian.

Yes, even if it is an assumption it's better not to talk openly like that. Also for me 6 is above the dislike level. 5 is the cusp and 4 and under is the dislike level. So when you see a 6 it doesn't mean I hate a show, but that I'm not overly impressed by it, at least not yet. Though compared to some of the other shows I've tried this season, it's not half bad to pass the time (at least when Sunohara isn't on the screen). Still, after this arc is over I'll probably take a hiatus on it and wait for it to finish and then marathon the rest.

[IRJustman]

Yes, even if it is an assumption it's better not to talk openly like that.

You're the one making assumptions, not me.

And if that is indeed a spoiler, that spoiler tag will not save you. I speak from personal experience.

--Ian.

[minhtam1638]

Well I got what I expected, but since I don't really feel that much of an emotional connection to Fuko (still think of her as a small dog more than anything) I'm not getting the emotional tear-jerking that others do. It takes a lot more than what I've been given by the gibberish-spewing moeblob that is Fuko to really be saddened by a death or fading away. Also as it's episode 8 we get the bathtub scene (I've noticed that Kyoto tends to throw in the service around episode 8, happened with Lucky Star's....frig what was her name, [I spent like 5 minutes trying to remember her name] Miyuki's breast jiggling relay race, Suzumiya Haruhi's er....shirtless cave getaway, and I believe Makoto might have been getting a bath in Kanon episode 8), which was pure eyecandy.

That would be episode 5

Episode 8 was when Makoto brought home the cat.

As far as I can tell, there wasn't fanservice in this episode.

[X207]

i give this ep a 6/10 simply because (as humorous fuuko is) im getting a bit tired of her story. supposedly its gonna end on ep 9. that said, there will only be 17 eps for the other 4 characters. imo they lingered too with fuuko. though im glad that fuuko can snap out of those day dreams almost immediately.

[Shana]

SS & Eclipse subs are out.

As X207, I'm getting tired of the story, Fuuko already got lots of episodes.

Well, downloading episode...

[Klashikari]

A lot...? it is quite relative.
Fuko's arc "truely" begun at the end of episode 4. That means with episode 9, she got 5 fully episodes centred on her. This is basically what they allocated to Makoto in Kanon, though it was MUCH MORE centred on her, while Fuko's arc still allowed some space for Nagisa and antics with the other girls as well.

In that aspect, Fuko is much better integrated in CLANNAD than Makoto in Kanon, IMHO.

[Reckoner]

I rated this episode an 8/10.

Like some have said, I am having a lot of trouble feeling for Fuko at all. Some of the other girls are far more interesting to me and I like their personalities better. I am getting a little tired of Nagisa and her crying as well, but at least it looks like its ending next episode thankfully. I didn't like Makoto's arc very much in Kanon either so I guess its just a trend for me.

[Shana]

A lot...? it is quite relative.
Fuko's arc "truely" begun at the end of episode 4. That means with episode 9, she got 5 fully episodes centred on her. This is basically what they allocated to Makoto in Kanon, though it was MUCH MORE centred on her, while Fuko's arc still allowed some space for Nagisa and antics with the other girls as well.

In that aspect, Fuko is much better integrated in CLANNAD than Makoto in Kanon, IMHO.

You are right. But what I wanted to meant was, that they are showing Kotomi and Tomoyo as side characters (They, as much, get an scene at one episode). It's like the characters can only appear in X and Y arc.

[Mentar]

This episode reminded me of an old Styx song:

"Haven't we been here before?"

The parallels to Makoto's storyline from Kanon are so obvious that I can't help but rate down the episode for it a bit. Small cute moeblob changes from tsun to dere while her time is running out and she is about to perish. Kind male lead doesn't know how to really resolve the situation but tries his best to make the "passing" as pleasant to her as possible.

Well - the Makoto finish was definitely touching, and I couldn't keep my eyes dry. This time, I suspect that I'll manage to do that. Not bad, but definitely not great either. In this episode simply nothing really surprising happened, it was railroaded quite a bit.

I really want to see something else soon... but it seems that ep9 will conclude the Fuko arc, so that will happen, I guess.

A gracious 7 from me.

[Klashikari]

You are right. But what I wanted to meant was, that they are showing Kotomi and Tomoyo as side characters (They, as much, get an scene at one episode). It's like the characters can only appear in X and Y arc.
That is of course the good thing: they obviously can't involve anyone beyond their role, and it is obviously not possible for the other girls to be bound with Fuko as much as Nagisa.

Involving too much characters might be a drag instead, while removing them is a complete idiocy, because it would turn the story into a modular aspect (which Kanon suffered a lot in 02, while 06 changed the matter, with Ayu and Mai, for example).
Characters cannot appear on a whim (well, Youhei aside...) or out of their reach.
Kotomi, for instance, would hardly be involved until some event with library, book or any event requiring her own presence.

The other possible way to involve characters fully would actually entwin their arc with each other, which is not a good idea either, as it would create major conflicts etc.

It is basically how they are able to involve these characters that is actually the good way. (example: Yukine and the other supporters in episode 5)

[X207]

i just hope they dont mess up tomoyo's and kotomi's arc. im also having trouble getting into fuuko's story, imo i found makoto's arc in kanon more interesting.

[Zarn]

The animation was a bit off this episode, but the plot stood up for it. Hell, I've been trying to write my opinion for more than half an hour now, yet I can't find the right words. I will only say that I'd miss Fu-chan, and miss her greatly.

Damn tear jerkers.

[TooPurePureBoy]

Dammit I know it's been done before but this stuff makes me blubber like a 8 year old girl who's skinned her knee! :sad:

[holyman282]

I know I said that I didn't feel emotionally connected to Fuko's arc up until ep 7, but ep 8 has really really touched me... The scene with Fuko giving Sunohora a starfish and Sanae breaking down cause she couldn't remember Fuko really touched me.....

True that this story reminds you alot of Ayu and Makoto from Kanon but even after thinking that, Fuko's comedic antics has really gotten a place in my heart and knowing that it will possibly not occur anymore has really gotten me teary eyed....

The preview looks to finish Fuko's arc in ep 9, also loved the music in the preview, can anyone tell me what's the name of that background music in the preview?

[MingShun]

I didn't cry, but I felt really pained when I watched this episode. Not enough humor to balance out the sadness...

Good luck Fuko-chan...

[Aznbanana]

o mannnnnnnnnnnn. I'm just so sad rite now. God, i'm gonna be REALLLYYY sad at eps 7. Box of klennex here i come. my mom is asking why im like almost crying right now. And said somethin like "Japanese Cartoons can make you cry now?" God, she never saw a freakin series from Kyoani or she will damn let loose the waterworks.

[fuzzles]

sigh it didn't end, This kind of drama just doesn't speak to me very well so that means a 5 episode arc for fuko how much more is there left, all that's left is her sister's wedding and how long can that take i don't see how that wedding will work out to be remotely interesting and then for fuko to disappear entirely how much longer can they drag on the i can't see her or remember her anymore parts maybe they'll throw in a she wakes up part(god i hope not). this really worries me as i'm looking forward to just get this over with and enjoy the parts of this series i know i'm gonna love and this means that they'll all have shorter arcs.

[minhtam1638]

You know, something tells me that there might be a funeral service for Fuko...

[The Timotei Teller]

Well, the new music in the preview dictates that episode 9 may very likely be Fuko's finale... At least it was fun while it lasted, and this was a wonderful way to lead in to the end. Sanae's breakdown really tugged at my heartstrings, as well as the scene where Sunohara received a starfish. It's always nice to see a comic relief character get an emotional moment every now and again.

[Sepirts]

This anime reminds me so much of air..

it's like a character arc one at a time, then the character is just.. like disposed.

[teachopvutru]

This anime reminds me so much of air..

it's like a character arc one at a time, then the character is just.. like disposed.

It's closer to Kanon 2006 but Kanon is like that, too.


This episode pains me considerably but isn't enough for a breakdown, although I kind of been wearing this expression on my face... you know, the face of both worry and sad, since this episode has been over. I find the part about Sunohara the best part in this episode. I also feel for Sanae but somehow her voice didn't make me feel as sad, otherwise, this expression will wear on my face for much longer...

[Proto]

For all the people complaining about Fuuko's arc being too large... remember that Fuuko arc was the second longest in the game, so it's not like she is getting more time that it was originally allocated or anything like that. Also, remember that while it was also said before that while CLANNAD pours originality when compared to KEY's previous works, the one arc that is similar to KANON and AIR; as a means to give them some rendition, is the Fuuko one. So it was all intentional, your mind isn't playing tricks on you :p

[Eviltape]

Oh man, oh man, oh man. Another somewhat painful cliffhanger pulled off by KyoAni. The episode preview seems to imply that Fuko leaves her dream (I conclude that's the theme of this series.) and she wakes up in the hospital. Happy arc ending.

Oh yeah, and my opinion of Sunohara went way up with this episode. WAY up.

[cshard]

Hmm, hard to say more beyond feeling more of the weight of Fuuko's situation bearing down on us...

Tomoyo's minor scene was most appreciated. :heh:

Fuuko's anti-Okazaki radar seems to finally be complete. XD I suppose after Okazaki became the Fuuko Master, Fuuko's stats also got raised. As usual, her naming sense leaves something to be desired. :heh: Petit Horrible FTW!

Mitsui is way too serious at times, but I can't blame her here I guess.

LOL at Akio ditching his shop in favour of the Starfish. Fuuko should be proud. Oh, and nice aim ossan. Few people can aim so perfectly at a bare knife on a table with their foot. :heh: Sanae and Akio should start their own mini theaterette in the bread shop. I'll bet they can do a good Shakespearean tragedy with aplomb.

Misae's screen time is being increased lately. Ayashi~~~~ :heh:

For all that Sunohara acts like an idiot, it seems that even idiots can be smart in their own way. Good to see that he's responsible enough to know how to research things if it's important enough to him and others. I also found him oddly considerate when he didn't press Tomoya for the info.

Like the mini scene with Tomoyo, I appreciated the little Kyou and Ryou scene. XD

Sunohara's final scene with the gang this ep was somewhat unsettling. Sunohara looked like on the verge of a mental breakdown at some points. I suppose we could interpret his desperate attempts to recall Fuuko as a kind of apology that he forgot about her. I wonder how they'll remember this in the future. :heh:

Nagisa's hugging Fuuko quite a bit, but she's only entered Starfish mode once. Her power seems to be disappearing in more ways than one. XD
- insufficient mp to activate Starfish Mode?!?!? -

LOL at Fuuko's denial of her inner child. Party favours FTW

That... vision of that Tomoya had of himself when thinking about the Fuuko popularity rankings was... most disturbing. I don't really think I want to know his deepest thoughts ever. XD

Was it just me, or was Fuuko looking at Tomoya and Nagisa when they were at the fountain,and thinking to herself, "these two make a great couple"? :heh: A child's approval of her "parents" relationship FTW.

I suppose Akio was trying to cheer himself up by playing baseball. As is usually the case, the normally tennen Sanae is the only one out of all those who were forgetting Fuuko to be actually be aware that she's forgetting her. Like mother, like daughter I suppose. Maybe it also has to do with her visiting Fuuko at the hospital, but that seemed to instantly KO Sunohara's memories. I guess her mental resistance is higher. :heh:

Wonder what's the purpose of sending Fuuko back to the school.

Will add my thoughts later on the preview. Lunch calls to me.

[d.sinclair]

Was it just me, or was Fuuko looking at Tomoya and Nagisa when they were at the fountain,and thinking to herself, "these two make a great couple"? :heh: A child's approval of her "parents" relationship FTW.

I'm pretty sure it's just Fuuko being appreciative of Tomoya's and Nagisa's support, but I don't know. I really wouldn't mind the other interpretation, though :D

[Lilith]

Ep 08
+1 for Akio presence. :love: And God, Tomoya (http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3562/huhxc3.jpg)... :heh:

I echo what evreyone said, it was a sad episode.

Two things make you forget Fuko: shallow attachment or seeing her in the hospital which explains why Ibuki-sensei couldn't see her. I can safely assume that episode 9 is the end of Fuko, I just hope she'll stay alive.

Was it just me, or was Fuuko looking at Tomoya and Nagisa when they were at the fountain,and thinking to herself, "these two make a great couple"? :heh: A child's approval of her "parents" relationship FTW.
Hahaha, that totally crossed my mind! Seriously, that fountain scene was AMAZING and that particular moment was very romantic. *swoons*

[cshard]

I think Tomoya got that particular set of duds from Kitagawa's Dance Fashion Mail Order store. :heh:

Anyway, a continuation of my post....

An additional note on Sanae. Her state of mind really felt to me as if she was in denial that she could even dare to forget about Fuuko. The way she was in that last scene, the first thought that popped into my mind was, "She's really losing it".

On to the preview.

I found it interesting that a prevalent motif shown during the preview seemed to be "the light at the end of the tunnel". Nice to see that next ep may not be as depressing as we might think and instead one filled with promise and hope. Methinks that the scene with all those petals/confetti flying in the air is probably part of the wedding ceremony.

Also... Tomoya and Nagisa sleeping with their heads on each other shoulder... sore wa ii~! Fuuko chan would approve. XD I say it's about time, and for those of us who thought Ayu's transition from dojikko / taiyaki otaku / tennen to main love interest was forced, I guess there won't be any complaints in Clannad. XD

Except maybe, "WHY AREN"T THEY AN OFFICIAL COUPLE YET~~!" . :heh: The answer to that is of course, so that Tomoyo, and Kyou still have their chance to shine as well. XD You don't see Tomoya ditching Nagisa if he were officially involved with her do you?

[rg4619]

while CLANNAD pours originality when compared to KEY's previous works

Actually, the opposite observation is often cited - that Clannad is more of the same, but with greater polish and slightly matured drama. Ultimately, that's probably why the game failed to attain the phenomenal popularity of Kanon or AIR. While it was very well received, bishoujo game fans were ready for something more original, hence the rise of Type-Moon and Fate/Stay Night.

Already, we've seen plenty of plot devices, character concepts, and story ideas recycled from Maeda's previous works (all the way back to ONE ~Kagayaku Kisetsu e~). So far, Clannad does look to be a giant synthesis of things that worked in the past, but with some new twists, as well as an evolved approach to storytelling.

[Major1138]

This anime reminds me so much of air..

it's like a character arc one at a time, then the character is just.. like disposed.

To be fair, if you're going to adapt a "visual novel" it's pretty tough to do anything else without making significant changes to the plot given how the branches of the story tend to be mutually exclusive. I suppose it would be possible to try and blend things together, but then you run the risk of changing things too much. People who haven't played the game probably won't care, but I suspect they aren't the target audience that is being catered to here.

As for the episode itself, I liked it well enough, but I think the pacing on Fuko's story is a little off - it seems to be one episode too long (assuming the next one is the end) given how they still probably have to address all the girls in the OP. From other comments, though, Fuko's arc in the game had more material anyways, so it's not entirely unexpected I guess.

[Alexandrite]

So after reading the posts here, I understand that Fuko's arc may be longer than some of the other characters', but I can't help but feel that the other girls aside from Nagisa are going to get their time cut because of the long arc. When I was told that the game for Clannad was a bit longer than Kanon, I was thinking that it couldn't be done in 24 episodes and would have to be pushed out a bit more, and those doubts persist seeing that the 9th episode is likely ending the first arc. I'd certainly like to see more episodes, if only so that each of the girls get their fair share of screen time. I'd hate to see things rushed and only two girls get any real focus. I suppose it's still possible to pull it off in the 15 episodes following Fuko's arc, but that would give about 3 episodes per girl, plus the ending, which extends the arc of that particular girl. Given that there's an entire game afterward with her name on it, I would assume Tomoyo would have enough importance (or at least popularity) to warrant a few extra episodes for her. I dunno. As I lack the ability to play either game, I wouldn't be the best to guess on how they may try and play that out.

This episode was rather sad, but I just can't feel as deeply for Fuko's situation as much as some. It just seems too much like Ayu's dilemma with a twist, and since I already got teary eyed over that, the similarities make it hard for me repeat the emotions for Fuko. More than her drama, I prefer her humorous antics, so I still like her as a character, but her arc is not likely going to be my favorite.

All in all, I enjoyed the episode. I liked that there's more of Sunohara being serious and contributing a bit more instead of his usual position as a slapstick comedy prop, and I'm all for the drama, so while it may not turn out to be my pick from Clannad, I'm anxious to see how this all wraps up.

[Heartnet]

Very very nice episode. Story development is progressing nicely, and this episode was very strong.

[cshard]

@ Alexadrite: To be perfectly honest, do note that Nagisa's already had at least 4 episodes almost entirely devoted to her and she's had a prominent role in Fuuko's arc. Although Kyou, Tomoyo and Kotomi have had minor roles so far, they have also had quite a lot of screentime and plot setup already.

Therefore, although the number of episodes devoted entirely to them may be less, their combined screentime will likely be about equal. Plus, since I think we won't see Fuuko very much after episode 9, which gives the rest even more time to use. I suppose we'll have to leave it to Divini to keep count of each individual's total screen time. :heh:

[Mirrinus]

Hmm...I really liked that episode, actually. I still don't really understand why people think it's too similar to Ayu's or Makoto's. Personally, I thought Fuuko's arc was nothing like theirs. What do they have in common? That she's in a coma? Or that she only has a limited amount of time left? That's it? Pretty superficial, if you ask me. The highlight of this episode has been the emotional devastation caused by forgetting Fuuko, for both those who forgot her, and those who still remember. What this episode reminded me the most of wasn't Kanon, but in fact Sola...

This stretch of Fuuko's arc reminded me the most of how Yorito was forgotten by all his friends when Aono's paper magic began to wear away at the end of Sola. Those of you who read my opinions on Sola's ending know that I really disliked how everyone forgot about Yorito and Matsuri at the end (even if I did hate Yorito).

However, I actually liked Clannad's version, because they bothered to focus on the pain caused by it. There were two sides of the story that both hit hard. One was how Fuuko, Tomoya, and Nagisa were left in isolation as everyone around them fell away, leaving only them to cling onto Fuuko's existance. The desperation that they must have felt (and desperation is my favorite sentiment expressed in music: see Higurashi Kai OP) was well-portrayed. But that should all be expected, even if it was done rather well IMHO. The other side was the pain felt by those who forgot. I honestly just expected everyone to forget all about Fuuko and act as if nothing ever happened. But that's exactly what didn't happen, and I was pleasantly surprised. I was very pleased to see Sunohara confessing before Nagisa and Tomoya about the lingering threads of feelings that he still had about Fuuko, or Sanae breaking down in tears before them while still desperately trying to cling on to everything she knew about Fuuko (I loved how she stressed Fuuko's name each time she said it). That was just great, and it's certainly not something done in Kanon (sure, Ayu disappeared, but no one forgot about her, which makes all the difference). I think what made it unique in my eyes was that the people who forgot Fuuko felt something akin to guilt...which I found interesting from a character dynamic standpoint.

Oh, and the Nagisa + Tomoya scenes in this episode were fantastic (to say nothing of the next episode preview!!!). They are fast becoming one of my favorite anime couples of all time (move over, Sakura and Syaoran!). They make great parents for Fuuko, don't they? ^_^

Speaking of next episode previews, I loved the previews for the climactic episodes of Kanon, and I'm beginning to think the same will be true of Clannad as well. Changing the music for the arc's final episode preview...that was done for Kanon 10, 18, and 24, right?

[Hage-bai]

If only everyone could have forgotten a lot quicker.

[kimchipride]

That was a masterpiece

[SSJiffy]

WTF, Fuko = Makoto!? Approved. I like how it's more progressive, centers around Fuko while bringing up the other supporting characters, and the brilliant ending of the arc to come. [High hopes].

I'm happy that she's not going to turn out to be an animal like Makoto; had she of turned out to be a starfish from Nagisa or Tomoya's past...*vein on forehead*.

[OceanBlue]

Hmm... poll seems more varied now.

It's amusing how sometimes, people can see something coming and yet be totally shocked when it happens anyways. That's basically what happened to me with this episode. I am amazed that they have dragged out her arc until episode 9 [assuming it's the end], because I'm afraid that the other characters won't have as much time to develop.

But I liked this episode. People are talking about how Fuuko doesn't appeal to them, but I'm more focused on the event rather than the character. I admit, I think Fuuko isn't my favorite character in the anime [she ranks lowest for me], but the fact that everyone is forgetting about her is still affecting me strongly. The fact that it isn't just Fuuko, Nagisa, and Tomoya makes it stronger to me. Actually, if Clannad didn't involve other characters aside from them in this arc, I wouldn't feel anything.

Although, I do admit that if it were a more likable character for me, then I might like it more.

Fuuko = Matoko? nothx. Mirrinus sums up my opinion about that pretty well.

Sunohara is now one of my favorite Clannad characters due to this episode. It's nice to see the comedy-relief guy become serious about things. You just don't see that anymore.

[grey_moon]

But I liked this episode. People are talking about how Fuuko doesn't appeal to them, but I'm more focused on the event rather than the character. I admit, I think Fuuko isn't my favorite character in the anime [she ranks lowest for me], but the fact that everyone is forgetting about her is still affecting me strongly. The fact that it isn't just Fuuko, Nagisa, and Tomoya makes it stronger to me. Actually, if Clannad didn't involve other characters aside from them in this arc, I wouldn't feel anything.


I really like what you say here, because even though I really like Fuuko, it is the way her situation affects the people around her like Tomoya, Nagisa and her mum which really choked me up the most.

[Shana]

That is of course the good thing: they obviously can't involve anyone beyond their role, and it is obviously not possible for the other girls to be bound with Fuko as much as Nagisa.

Involving too much characters might be a drag instead, while removing them is a complete idiocy, because it would turn the story into a modular aspect (which Kanon suffered a lot in 02, while 06 changed the matter, with Ayu and Mai, for example).
Characters cannot appear on a whim (well, Youhei aside...) or out of their reach.
Kotomi, for instance, would hardly be involved until some event with library, book or any event requiring her own presence.

The other possible way to involve characters fully would actually entwin their arc with each other, which is not a good idea either, as it would create major conflicts etc.

It is basically how they are able to involve these characters that is actually the good way. (example: Yukine and the other supporters in episode 5)

Well, it seems we can't think the same. So please forgive me.

Anyways, I have watched the episode already. I'll be giving this an 8, not perfect but not bad.

[Klashikari]

Well, it seems we can't think the same. So please forgive me.

Anyways, I have watched the episode already. I'll be giving this an 8, not perfect but not bad.
Oi oi... it was just a debate or so. It would be ridiculous to force someone to think the same (Tyran/narrow minded much? not for me anyway).
Just giving my 2 cents about how the execution is working for me, that's it :)

[Master Chibi]

Great.

Now the depressing shit begins.

Lord I don't even know why I'm watching when I know very well that I'm going to be sad as FUCK when this series is all over.

God damn it.

[Klashikari]

Great.

Now the depressing shit begins.

Lord I don't even know why I'm watching when I know very well that I'm going to be sad as FUCK when this series is all over.

God damn it.

I would suggest you to keep going, as this series, despite having remote similarities with Air and Kanon, doesn't have the same themes, nor the same potential or mood.
In such case, there isn't any proof it will be a depressing end or anything. I think Kanon proved it in several instances.

[arkxkra]

this episode was great although it cover by the sad atmosphere...., although many people can't remember Fuko and slowly forgotten her, but she still inside their memory, especially Sunohara try to remember her and Sanae almost forgotten Fuko, this 2 part was great, also everytime Nagisa cry are nice too(very emotional) ...

but at least Fuko have 2 people still can remember her, tomoya and nagis also very care about her and support her...

from the preview, next episode Fuko will be gone... Fuko route should be almost end, maybe?

[nikorai]

Hello. watched the episode. its pretty touching.
@Klashikari
I actually didnt play the game but back when the anime was announced some people said its gonna be very depressing, kanon is nothing compared to this. So far nothing terrible happened but if those words had some ground im actually expecting the worse. there are many episodes ahead.

[Master Chibi]

I would suggest you to keep going, as this series, despite having remote similarities with Air and Kanon, doesn't have the same themes, nor the same potential or mood.
In such case, there isn't any proof it will be a depressing end or anything. I think Kanon proved it in several instances.

Well that's good to hear, but lord help me if like everyone ends up fading away or some other emotional crap at the end of this series.

I will hold you personall responsible.

:frustrated:

[Klashikari]

Hello. watched the episode. its pretty touching.
@Klashikari
I actually didnt play the game but back when the anime was announced some people said its gonna be very depressing, kanon is nothing compared to this. So far nothing terrible happened but if those words had some ground im actually expecting the worse. there are many episodes ahead.
Actually I don't exactly pay attention to the "gamers warning", as it might disrupt my "noob enjoyement", altering my expectations.
That said, what I can tell with the story until now: it is indeed depressing (I felt much more affected with Fuko's arc, unlike makoto's), but that doesn't mean the series will be set in stone with such type of story (Once again, Kanon is a solid proof for this).

Therefore, we can obviously expect emotional scenes, but we can't exactly expect it will be "strongly sad" "strongly happy" just with the end of the first arc ^^

Well that's good to hear, but lord help me if like everyone ends up fading away or some other emotional crap at the end of this series.

I will hold you personall responsible.
Excuse me but... the general theme and type of this series are sufficient to realize the series can be extremely heartwarming, but depressing as well.
If you can't stand such thing, why are you watching this then?

What I meant with my previous post was merely basing on what we got so far, and how CLANNAD is vastly different from Air and Kanon.
I'm absolutely not a prophet or something, and I don't get how i can be reponsible, just because you are watching something which has the potential to be very emotional.

oh well...

[Lilith]

Uhm, I think Master Chibi was joking. :heh: But I agree with the rest, I definitely sense more sadness coming ahead. If Nagisa is crying like that over Fuko, I can't imagine what state she'll be in other sitiuations...

[Ashlotte]

I cant believe this arc is still going...Well atleast the drama is slowly overtaking the comedy in prominence, but I feel like by the time they finally resolve all this I wont have very much interest in the outcome anyway... :heh:

Ah maybe ive become jaded of these kinda series...Especially after watching multiple protagonist shows such as EF and Kimkiss this season. It just feels like this is all going through the motions...You have one girl and she gets her spotlight...then after that will have another and another until finally we reach the end...

Its not an especially organic or natural way of storytelling...More like just going through the motions watching several small, but separate stories strung together.

Would it be so hard to cover several girls development at once instead of having them so carefully segregated? Well I guess I can hope the rest of the show will be abit more like that and alittle less like Kanon 2.0. ;)

[Klashikari]

Would it be so hard to cover several girls development at once instead of having them so carefully segregated? Well I guess I can hope the rest of the show will be abit more like that and alittle less like Kanon 2.0. ;)
That can only be done in series where the said protagonists can interact with each other.
As you can see, Nagisa has some connection with Kyou and Tomoyo, with a strong bound with Fuko, but absolutely nothing with Kotomi.
Due Kotomi's situation, she has absolutely 0 connection with anyone except Tomoya, and so forth.

Mixing all the protagonists is a bigger mistake than "isolating" each of them, because you must take into account the fact they have their own "terriroty", and so, they have a specific spectrum of actions and places to reach.

For instance, I would hardly see Tomoyo and Kotomi together, due their very different respective agenda. (That is actually how she is able to roam around and meets with Tomoya, while he was in "nagisa route", then "fuko" route").

Unlike in Kanon, CLANNAD obviously involves all the "non spotlight characters" when they can, while the former was a bit too modular (not as much as 02)
Characters have their LIFE ongoing while we are following the "girl arc". That doesn't mean they are set aside, but we have absolutely no way to follow them as it would be completely conflicting with the flow and the context. Seeing Tomoyo frequently after episode 5 would be a bit weird as she is supposed to be busy with the Studen Council President elections; and so forth.
In such regard, CLANNAD follows the flow well, the only issue is rather if people are empathic to Fuko or not, that's all. Nothing exactly relatedto "lack of other girls screentime".

Meanwhile, Ef is very different because the "routes" displayed in this series are completely singular and are linked together with a very faint device (as Chihirou and Kei being twins). Meanwhile, Kimi kiss offers SEVERAL male protagonists, that's how you can get such result.
Your examples cannot be applied on CLANNAD, because Ef and Kimikiss have enough "protagonists who help" and "protagonists with issues". In CLANNAD, only Tomoya and Nagisa are active, and they cannot be apart, because they are actually still on "Nagisa Route" for obvious reasons.

[Mirrinus]

Was the spotlight on Fuuko in this past episode, or on Tomoya and Nagisa (and everyone else who forgot her)? Even without seeing Divini's usual tallies on screentime, I'm willing to bet that Tomoya and Nagisa got the most screentime and lines once again in this episode.

[Faust87]

I can't wait to see the next episode... I'll cry like a child for sure...

[Snuffle]

I'm more interested in who's arc is next. Even tho Fuko is quite the comedian, I've gotten bored of her... I want the story to move to the next girl already ><;;

Unlike Kanon where I enjoyed all the characters. Fuko just seems so-so to me.

To bad Ryou doesn't get a main part in the story (whatever it may be). But hopefully during Kyou's part, she will be seen quite a bit.

[Sorrow-K]

I only have one comment for this episode:

BAAAAAWWWW! ;-;

Never mind the script or story, the execution was about as close to perfect as it could have been for something that required this type of atmosphere. The directing, art, animation and choice of music were all just about perfect.

[Zarn]

I watched this again a while ago, for drama's sake. Sadly it wasn't as tear jerking as in the first time I watched it yesterday. I may be developing a girly side, lol. Seriously now, at this rate I'm not sure whether I'd be able to hold myself till next Friday.

[amoirsp]

I do agree that this route is like one episode too long. Sure, fleshing out the details is pretty nice, but then the overall idea is simple.

We had girl carving stars and giving them, then assisting in making and giving them as presents, then why the situation occurs, then what is the issue with that going on, then the issue manifesting. And of course there's Fuuko Master, which is really odd to adapt, even though the likelyhood of using it was about 100%.

Now originally I found it odd that this route would go first, for reasons like oh, Nagisa's implementation is quite good in this route, if her own route conclusion occurred after Fuuko's route, then the development with Nagisa and Tomoya would have the right magnitude. Also it would have the usage of the other characters have more basis.

I suppose Fuuko's route is first because the other routes haven't been dealt with, meaning that seeing the characters even after their own route resolutions will have slight oddity, but then again looking at it that way is the perfect excuse to use them again without the dissolving where after a route resolution the character no longer or very rarely appears.

Now Fuuko's resolution has a select few possibilities, but if she doesn't really appear much after episode 9, that should be normal. But if she does periodically appear after episode 9, that also works. Well, I would say Fuuko isn't much of a side character though, if it wasn't obvious enough, but her route is good.

Though this also makes me wonder why Kyoani doesn't dare opt for a bad ending, or rather a non-good ending (in general, and not referring to this route, and heck I don't know what Kyoani would do with episode 9 exactly.). It's like in Kanon, if Ayu disappeared and didn't come back, that itself makes sense, particularly the scene with that (though of course it wouldn't with the ridiculous amount of events preceding it.) Of course due to supernatural things and the way key works, you can generate a good ending even with ambiguity is explanations setting up for it. This was why I wanted Clannad in an AIR equation rather than a Kanon one. One feels more sequential, while the other is segmented routes, but right now Clannad clearly looks more like the Kanon equation at the moment. Oh well, similarities are bound to occur. Fortunately it's not identical.


I do find interesting that one component of the episode was only mentioned by one person vaguely so far in the entire discussion, and it wasn't even a wonder. It's not super relevant or spoiler breaking given the main point was the forgetting, but it was a viable insert that was opted a small allocation of time to.

The other thing I find interesting was the fact that episode 2 had so much ambiguity that Nagisa was believed to be the ghost for a short duration since she didn't communicate with anyone else to much of a degree. But that was weeks ago.

Another thing would be that although using the other characters periodically showed continual effects of forgetting, if you took out like half of them, you'd still get the main idea easily. Though I guess Kyoani did that for the ones that make a little sense to put in (Tomoyo walking around, or Kyou being angry at Youhei ... even though she's relatively easy to summon. As noticed, Kotomi and Yukine weren't used at all, even though time and scenes were taken to specifically deliver to them two as well.)

The irony with this route is also that it could easily have gone another episode (of course that would be too long but I was referring to more Fuuko Master notations, aka more pranks, and that could have endless possibilities.)

Although the conclusion of Fuuko's route should be interesting (Kyoani's first route conclusions have been fine), I do seriously wonder what's the arc they transition to, and if they do, there could easily be a lack of Fuuko and even Nagisa. Nagisa is significant in Fuuko's route because she was the only student that remains in the school that knew Ibuki-sensei, but involvement with other characters (one that will be the next arc, unless they oddly run part of Nagisa's route aka drama club. Funny thing and problem with that is that it's like "okay, Fuuko concluded, let's get back to drama club" would make really weird momentum.)

Yeah, the real curiousity stems to what arc is the one to be transitioned to. Right now almost every arc seems to me pretty bad to transition to because Fuuko isn't much of a side character, as in mentioning/using her in a different route would seem awkward (all I could think of is some starfish notation or a prank, but if the route is concluding, it makes both those options obsolete, regardless of what actually happens to Fuuko or in general in episode 9.). Tomoyo's route is also possible to be next, except parts of it were already used and any more of that makes it way too stale. Currently Kotomi is a main with the least emphasis, but Kyoani would probably compact that all into her route altogether since Kotomi cannot be inclusive in something on a daily trend (something Kyou or Tomoyo would excel in).

Come to think of it, using Nagisa that much in Fuuko's route in the first 1/3 of the series has a slight downside. If Nagisa were to be used in other routes, the incorporation would be really weird (except in one instance which I think Kyoani might not even use). If she isn't used, then there's a big gap in either development or presence between Fuuko's route and Nagisa's route (which likely would be utilized last). Heck, the existence of Nagisa indirectly fails the resolution of other routes (well, if the male lead ends up with the main girl, then obviously he can't end up with any other girl now can he.) Fortunately, because there is certain story substance in all the routes, there can be other concentrations of allocation.

Nagisa being the lead is fine, and it makes sense, but she'll likely make a very bad support character (uh I don't think Ayu does that well either, and if Misuzu ran a support role, its kind of a nightmare with how AIR works overall lol), so I do wonder how Kyoani will allocate Nagisa in other routes (note that Nagisa's route intertwines with Fuuko's best, as already seen, given the circumstances, and even then it's already distorted only because there's no real drama club progress despite having the room during Fuuko's route). Okay, maybe like one or two she can be inclusive, but vaguely, and certainly not prominent (relationship between Nagisa and other girls not named Fuuko currently = friends/acquaintances at best, and that's all generated from Tomoya anyways, except for Kotomi which would be 0 recognition due to library and self study isolation.).

In the end (not really), Kyoani hasn't even dealt with some conflicting possibilities yet (a Kanon 2006 weakness). Character interaction has some establishment, but it's clear right now who knows who to certain degrees. Well, interesting to know what will happen next. I would guess either Kyou's or Kotomi's should run next, but then again episode 4 preview did fool me initially thinking Tomoyo's route would oddly run first. Fuuko's route has ran fine because well, it's the first, so being the most linear isn't as difficult. The routes are usually fine, but the transitions usually suck (at least Toei's Kanon 2002 made it really obvious who was the next character to receive emphasis by putting short scenes during or upon the conclusion of the preceding route, but Kanon 2006 was more like "next event, issue comes up, then let's resolve it", without much transition magnitude and dissolving of use of previous character.). Well, Fuuko would likely be dissolving in terms of usage in later episodes by default, regardless of ending. Let's enjoy the conclusion and hope the routes later work just as well (though hopefully better. Fuuko attachment isn't as strong but the route is good. Perhaps attachments as already seen from side characters that haven't been used greatly have already done will be better, even if the route is weaker, the strength of the character itself might balance that out.) Don't want a slight fall off or an ambiguously neutral path that Kanon ran.

I should stop before I keep train rolling without realizing I'm just restating myself too often.

[kimchipride]

I think Fuko is awesome but I indeed do want to see more characters. In Kanon characters that bored me was Shiori and Makoto... Sorry Shiori and Makoto fans. I can't wait to watch the next character arcs. Kotomi looks boring, but everyone else's look fine.

[KholdStare]

Even though Sunohara and Nagisa's mother were involved in emotional scenes, and Sunohara got serious, it's still way too repetitive for me to give it a good score. 7/10

[Xiaolang]

I cried, therefore I gave a 10.

[Proto]

Even though Sunohara and Nagisa's mother were involved in emotional scenes, and Sunohara got serious, it's still way too repetitive for me to give it a good score. 7/10

7/10 stands for good in the animesuki scale though :heh:

[OceanBlue]

7/10 stands for good in the animesuki scale though :heh:

Of course, it's undermined by the legion of 10 voters everywhere, so a 7 doesn't seem as good.

[Hunter Sock Monsters]

VisualArts/Key has a nack for making people feel for their characters. felt like someone sucker punched me in the gut when I was through with this episode...

seeing so many people forgetting Fuko was painful to watch...

very little comedy in this episode, but that also shows that this episode is definitely one of the most serious to date.

Nagisa was very depressed at times when people were forgetting Fuko especially her mother. who knows how depressed Nagisa will be when Fuko's story arc is wrapped up, and that looks like it will be the next episode....

[Kaioshin Sama]

Of course, it's undermined by the legion of 10 voters everywhere, so a 7 doesn't seem as good.

Seconded. My 6 as a result seems like outright hatred of the series. It's a relative thing that sticks in peoples heads. Some of the Gurren Lagann and Lucky Star episodes are insanely top heavy in regard to the 10s. Eventually 10 starts to seem like the norm and anything below it seems more like a 5 and under. By the time you reach 4 it's like the Two Thumbs Down, Zero Stars, Worst Episode Ever rating.

[KholdStare]

Of course, it's undermined by the legion of 10 voters everywhere, so a 7 doesn't seem as good.

Even though I don't throw my 10s around, in my scale, a 5 is an episode that wasn't interesting but watchable (usually fillers), so a 6-7 is above average and 8-9 is good. If I find that an episode is special and unique in any way I give it a 10. Scores below a 5 are for episodes that had obvious flaws or is just useless. If there's one more episode about Fuko disappearing, then that's useless.

I went crazy with my voting on School Days, giving a couple 1's, and couple 10's, and a lot in between.

[Owaranai Destiny]

So the deed is done. Had it not been for Maeda Jun, or even KyoAni, this episode might have been rather bland just based on the description of the episode itself.

My impression was that they were trying to show what would be happening to Fuuko as her condition worsens. Not a lot to say about, until it came to the point where even though the action of giving out the starfish carvings were repetitive (even though there was emphasis on different characters from the Tomoya side and Fuuko's side (namely, Mitsui) ), it became painful to watch her trying so hard, yet being forgotten even as she knew she would be disappearing.

-There's something quite peculiar, however, because apparently if what Tomoya says about the reasons of forgetting Fuuko is true (seeing her comatose state or not being close to her emotionally), Kouko herself might be the one true exception to all that, since it's obvious she's seen her on her hospital bed, and is her older sister. Why couldn't she see Fuuko, in that case, or is the theory simply derived from her detoriating condition rather than Tomoya's reasoning?

-The whole episode bordered on depression thanks to the facial expressions and reactions from both Tomoya and Nagisa. Not that it's a bad thing, of course, because I find that the mood generated from their frustration (Tomoya in particular) at people not remember Fuuko to be rather powerful, in the sense that it accentuates the whole feeling of only but 'delaying the inevitable'. A thumbs up to the producers for slowly and gradually pressing on the brakes for the humorous sections as they come to the more emotional scenes.

-The comedy was good fun, especially the sea slugs part and the part were Akio was 'dying' from stepping onto the carving knife. While the time spent with Fuuko was mostly in the reputable name of comedy, I did think that those were some rather heartwarming moments, that despite the despair faced by Tomoya and Nagisa, they never failed to continue trying to cheer Fuuko up rather than wallow in depression all the time.

-While different characters were shown with varied but similar responses (I wonder why Tomoyo could still see her, though...?), each scene seems to have different meanings, one which shows how much a person has forgotten about Fuuko. Despite being the joker most of the time, Sunohara's part was the most powerful in terms of invoking emotions within me. It almost felt cruel to me for Tomoya and Nagisa that Sunohara seemed to have remembered-Only to be utterly confused by what he had done.

It is true that Nagisa and Sanae's breakdowns were a little too frequent, but the crying here was done in a different context. While earlier episodes show that mother and daughter apparently have a natural gift for theatrics, the tears seem real to me, especially from Sanae and all the more since so far she was one of the only people to remember Fuuko vividly, even if she could no longer see her.

And yes, I did think Fuuko thought Tomoya and Nagisa made a good couple too, and the lighting was great with the sunset.

The only question left for me is how Tomoya and Nagisa MIGHT forget about Fuuko in the end, and what they did in school from dusk till dawn as well as whether they will be moving on to the 'miracle droplets' part or simply play it out like Kanon 2k6 with the True Arc at the end.

Perfect 10, hands down.

[Setsukyie]

A 10 from me..
A great episode overall..
well..every Clannad episode is great for me..
because I haven't found anything bad about Clannad..(not yet..)

Sunohara is one the reasons that made this episode one of my favorites...

and it's painful to see everyone forgetting about Fuuko..
after she worked so hard for her sister's wedding..
sad...

yea, being forgotten is more painful than being gone...



btw, im new here..
and 100th post..hehe...

[armedrabbit]

i hope lots of people at least comes to her sister's wedding :(

[Master Chibi]

Yeah, I was joking Klash.

Relax guy.

:P

[Curulan]

This episode started out slow, but I feel it warrants a 9 because it did eventually have me sobbing (yes, that's right; vocal lacrimation here, folks).

It was so emotionally taxing to see Touhei and Sanae forget Fuuku, but struggling so hard to remember her to the point where it hurts. My heart bleeds to know how this will be resolved.

[Fenrir_valindri]

To be honest I was weary of this anime at the start, but decided to watch it anyway, and I am glad I made that decision.

This Episode really pulled some heart strings for me, everyone slowly forgetting about Fuko get me teary eyed more then a few times (I'm a big softy like that.)

Although Sunohana forgetting about Fuko was heart-breaking, Sanae trying to see Fuko as she forgot about her was even more so. That part definatly made me shed a few tears :upset:

I dread and anticipate the next episode :(

[Kaioshin Sama]

Yeah, I was joking Klash.

Relax guy.

:P

Hehe, yeah Klash isn't to good with picking up on the humour sometimes, he even takes me too seriously at times. I think he calls it going "Panzer Dragoon" or something. In fact I have like 8 nicknames for him just as a result of that. :heh:

He's actually working really hard on finishing up some summaries though so he's probably just a bit tired honestly (more like flat out exhausted). Something like 2 done and 4 to go.....:uhoh:

If you are looking for a prophet however...........

[Reckoner]

The reason that I am making a shallow comparison to Makoto's arc in Kanon is because it feels exactly the same. As time progressed for Makoto she became less and less human and finally disappeared. As time passes for Fuko, people are forgetting about and she is fazing out of existence (Her spirit form). She's in the same coma type deal as a certain character from Kanon2006 as well. That's where I make the comparison between the two event wise.

Now this is why I feel like I am rewatching Kanon. Yuiichi's attitude towards Makoto in Kanon is almost identical to Tomoya's attitude in Clannad. They're both trying to be cheerful with the one they're looking after while both being in pain as well. They're trying to do whatever they can for the person before they go away so their last memories are happy ones. Makoto's arc and Fuko's arc are also both really dragged on to me, and the emotions they try to instigate are a cheap deal in Clannad because I've already went through the exact same thing in Kanon. I don't know if you catch my drift here, as I don't feel I am explaining it very well.

On a personal note, the most annoying character in Kanon and the most annoying character to me in Clannad are both in the first arc of their respective series amazingly enough to myself. Although I won't really call this a relation between the two :p

Ok now onto why I feel no emotional attachment to Fuko in general.

1. She seems like a complete child in the way she does things, yet she is supposed to be a lot older. Everyone else also treats her exactly like a child!

2. She lacks a good emotional response other than feeling really happy and going into a trance. When Fuko becomes sad she only seems to pout (Did I spell that right?) and never expresses her sadness in words. I don't recall her ever shedding an honest tear either.

3. Like I said before the whole coma plot device has been used before in Kanon, so the "magic" is taken out of it for me.

I feel like I'm ranting off here, so I'll just add one more thing. Clannad would be a far more enjoyable series without haven't seeing Kanon before. I still admire the works of this studio, but it bothers me how unoriginal this arc has been. Anyways I still like the series quite a bit and will continue to watch it to its end, but I won't be getting as much as enjoyment as those who haven't seen Kanon (or maybe even Air).

[Kang Seung Jae]

Finally it's ending....


I would now like to move on to the rest of the girls, please.


I do have to admit that doing this arc first was the best thing, given how other arcs have more movement in them.

[Kaioshin Sama]

The reason that I am making a shallow comparison to Makoto's arc in Kanon is because it feels exactly the same. As time progressed for Makoto she became less and less human and finally disappeared. As time passes for Fuko, people are forgetting about and she is fazing out of existence (Her spirit form). She's in the same coma type deal as a certain character from Kanon2006 as well. That's where I make the comparison between the two event wise.

Now this is why I feel like I am rewatching Kanon. Yuiichi's attitude towards Makoto in Kanon is almost identical to Tomoya's attitude in Clannad. They're both trying to be cheerful with the one they're looking after while both being in pain as well. They're trying to do whatever they can for the person before they go away so their last memories are happy ones. Makoto's arc and Fuko's arc are also both really dragged on to me, and the emotions they try to instigate are a cheap deal in Clannad because I've already went through the exact same thing in Kanon. I don't know if you catch my drift here, as I don't feel I am explaining it very well.

On a personal note, the most annoying character in Kanon and the most annoying character to me in Clannad are both in the first arc of their respective series amazingly enough to myself. Although I won't really call this a relation between the two :p

Ok now onto why I feel no emotional attachment to Fuko in general.

1. She seems like a complete child in the way she does things, yet she is supposed to be a lot older. Everyone else also treats her exactly like a child!

2. She lacks a good emotional response other than feeling really happy and going into a trance. When Fuko becomes sad she only seems to pout (Did I spell that right?) and never expresses her sadness in words. I don't recall her ever shedding an honest tear either.

3. Like I said before the whole coma plot device has been used before in Kanon, so the "magic" is taken out of it for me.

I feel like I'm ranting off here, so I'll just add one more thing. Clannad would be a far more enjoyable series without haven't seeing Kanon before. I still admire the works of this studio, but it bothers me how unoriginal this arc has been. Anyways I still like the series quite a bit and will continue to watch it to its end, but I won't be getting as much as enjoyment as those who haven't seen Kanon (or maybe even Air).

Eh, I was thinking someone might have this reaction sooner or later. KEY has some pretty common themes/plot elements throughout it's works, so it's not too surprising that people will take notice. Though in all honesty this is one of the least recurring ones . When my all time favourite one (i.e borderline classic sure as the sun rises Maeda Trope) pops up I'll pop in and let people know.

You pretty much hit on everything I turned over in my mind when I was taking notes on Fuko's storyline with regard to Kanon similarities, and I have to say, it's a pretty valid comparsion all things considered..

[Mirrinus]

The reason that I am making a shallow comparison to Makoto's arc in Kanon is because it feels exactly the same. As time progressed for Makoto she became less and less human and finally disappeared. As time passes for Fuko, people are forgetting about and she is fazing out of existence (Her spirit form). She's in the same coma type deal as a certain character from Kanon2006 as well. That's where I make the comparison between the two event wise.

See, if all we're doing is making comparisons event-wise, then nothing is ever original anymore. I'm positive I can do something similar with every single anime in existance. But even this comparison doesn't make much sense to me either. Is Fuuko becoming less and less human? Did everyone slowly forget about Makoto before she died? Did either of those two situations happen to Ayu? Seems like a fairly large leap of logic to me.

Do you watch these shows for the events, or do you watch for the character drama? These are two completely different things. You can have the events without the drama, but it's how the characters react and interact that lends the show substance. Nagisa's prominent presence in Fuuko's arc already makes this very different from whatever Kanon had. Same goes for the inclusion of Kyou, Ryou, Tomoyo, and especially Sunohara.

And besides, if this really was the Makoto arc, then I demand my Amano Mishio proxy. That girl's just adorable. But enough about that...

Now this is why I feel like I am rewatching Kanon. Yuiichi's attitude towards Makoto in Kanon is almost identical to Tomoya's attitude in Clannad. They're both trying to be cheerful with the one they're looking after while both being in pain as well. They're trying to do whatever they can for the person before they go away so their last memories are happy ones.

I'm pretty sure your last sentence barely even applies to Tomoya. In Clannad, there isn't really anything like "trying to do whatever they can". Fuuko started out with a set mission: to celebrate her sister's wedding. Nothing's changed, regardless of any revelations about ghosts and comas and whatever. Fuuko is doing this out of selflessness, all for her sister's sake, and isn't asking others for help for herself. Both the setup and the end point are completely different for the two arcs.

The idea of making a dying person's last days enjoyable isn't somehow unique to just Kanon, you know. Many, many stories utilize the same idea, so what's wrong with another story using it? So long as the details aren't the same (and seriously, very few details match between Makoto's arc and Fuuko's), such a simple idea can be spruced up in a multitude of ways. If you didn't like seeing Fuuko's arc just becaues of this, then I suggest you never watch A Walk to Remember, Hanbun no Tsuki ga Noboru Sora, or who knows how many Korean dramas. And before you make accusations across different shows for using this theme, remember that even Kanon itself is guilty of reusing it. Shiori's arc, anyone?

[minhtam1638]

I was thinking that Fuko is 1/3 Ayu, 1/3 Makoto, and 1/3 Shiori. Okay maybe not exactly even (darn it, I just re-marathoned Kanon and I still can't analyze it properly), but certain elements from certain characters are found here.

The only difference: Kanon has no father-figure (discarding Yuichi)

[kim8268]

I might agree with mithtam, that the story of fuko is mostly like ayu and makoto( a little bit of shiori) I have a little hunch about the story, demo I'll keep it for myself
Gooooooooo. ........
Nice ending............................................ ........
Plssssssssssssssssssss............................ .............................
and I was thinking, if fuko was in a coma if i was her sibling I would try to talk to the students that saw her, if it was me demo its the writer's decision. I hope it's not a bad ending like school days. I still had a trauma after watching the final episode
im not good at this but this is what my analysis.
I think that some of the ending will turn what would we expect because at the begging of the anime tomoyo said something about hating the city before meeting fukukawa
I think that it is much deeper than his fight with his otosan and he didn't knew that there were many weird people in this town it is almost like the story ended a long time ago and he is remembering it again. It is almost like the writer is giving us a preview about what kind of ending it might be. that what I think(I don't like to say about my first hunch

[Sinestra]

Really emotional episode looks like we are coming to the end. Watching Nagisa's mother cry over not being able to see Fu-Chan broke my heart i thought i was going to start bawling to even the scenes with Sunohara teared me up. Solid 9 in my book

[Dop]

Well that was sad, as Fuko passes from memory and out of people's sight.
Sunohara shows that he's more than the comedy sidekick who exists merely to get a good kicking each week. Let's hope we see more of his thoughtful side.

The clincher for me though was Nagisa's parents. Akio's uncomfortable confusion, and then Sanae. At first I thought that maybe she could still see Fuko, but the revelation that she could dimly remember her, but not see her, was just overwhelmingly poignant.

That's what really got me.

[Snuffle]

I wasn't even thinking on how Fuko or the other characters compare to Kanon characters, I almost never do that. At least... I don't think I do... :confused:

She lacks a good emotional response other than feeling really happy and going into a trance. When Fuko becomes sad she only seems to pout (Did I spell that right?) and never expresses her sadness in words. I don't recall her ever shedding an honest tear either.

I think this is why I'm bored with this character. Since Kanon characters where used for comparison, I will use that.

Kanon's Mokoto (not School Days Mokoto :heh:), felt like it went deeper into the feelings of that character. Unlike Fuko, it just seems to me we don't get much of a chance to see how she really feels, it feels passive to many times to me. Mokoto spent time with the family, sure Fuko did too, but Mokoto did much more things than Fuko has done. So we get a deeper connection with Mokoto. Just my POV.

[Proto]

As it has have been said, the most important and emotional part about this arc isn't Fuuko's tragedy itself, but the influence this tragedy has on the characters around her. With this Fuuko becomes a plot device of sorts and the main characters of this part become Tomoya and Nagisa.

[Takuto19]

10/10

Great episode again this week, just the small parts like Nagisa starting to cry makes the series really emotional.

I havn't played the game and i have no idea whats going to happen but it looks like it might be a sad ending for the Fuko arc with the way things are going :(

[grey_moon]

I think Fuuko's story is sadder then Makoto's, just for the fact that passing away is bad enough, but to be also forgotten is worse. The only thing giving me a little hope so far is we don't know the ending and I hope that Nagisa and Tomoya won't forget. Fuuko is witnessing all her hardwork, her actual existence disappear before her very eyes. She even has to consider that her wish may never come true as people will not remember to go to her sisters wedding.

I can only hope that at least Tomoya and Nagisa are able to remember and are able to keep the wedding on track. Of course if she wakes up and is able to do all that stuff her self that would be fine too.

What makes me want to blubber apart from how a feel for the people around her, is how she keeps trying and doesn't give up.

[Skyfall]

A pretty good episode overall. I liked the fact that Sunohara has a role to play and displayed a serious side, breaking out of his usual comic relief role. Fuko's disappearance from people's memories is handled nicely (people she was close to) and i have to say i rather enjoyed how Sunohara and Akio were handled. Interesting enough it seems that Fuko is not surprised at all herself - perhaps she is aware she is a ghost and nothing more. Raises some interesting questions whether our little copy of Aruruu is going to "last" till the wedding.

That all aside, there is still one thing that prevents me from experiencing this show to the fullest - my absolute disinterest in Fuko's character, and my inability to sympathize with her even in the slightest. Somehow i don't think she is fit to be in the center of drama, because it doesn't work (for me at least). I am still pretty much looking towards the day when her arc is over and done with, so we can finally move on.

[Sparrow1770]

This whole bit with Fuuko could have been a nice and touching little vignette, but it is starting to get heavy handed. I practically did a facepalm when Sunohara said something like, "I must be getting forgetful, I just came out of the hospital and I didn't know why." :rolleyes:

As it has have been said, the most important and emotional part about this arc isn't Fuuko's tragedy itself, but the influence this tragedy has on the characters around her. With this Fuuko becomes a plot device of sorts and the main characters of this part become Tomoya and Nagisa.

Yes, I agree that Fuuko is not a fully developed character, merely a disposable archetype that serves her purpose and then disappears. That kind of character is very hard for me to get emotionally invested in.

I have enjoyed this show for its humor but if it starts to go the melodrama route I can't see myself being too interested in it.

[holyman282]

Yes, I agree that Fuuko is not a fully developed character, merely a disposable archetype that serves her purpose and then disappears. That kind of character is very hard for me to get emotionally invested in.

I have enjoyed this show for its humor but if it starts to go the melodrama route I can't see myself being too interested in it.

That's what I thought originally. But I think Kyo has developed Fuko's character subtly. We get little bits of her character through the funny scenes involving her. The scenes make us laugh, we enjoy it, but most people aren't emotionally connected but then when the chance comes that Fuko may possibly dissapear, we truly value her as a character and hence become emotionally attached. A very subtle development culminates into extremely teary drama and leaves you wondering why you're crying when you hardly felt connected to Fuko early on anyway.

Something along the lines of "you don't know what you've got until it's gone"

That's how I feel anyway. I been watching the Fuko arc with a cynical and detached attitude and yet this ep and the last still managed to touch me in ways I can't describe.

[Reckoner]

See, if all we're doing is making comparisons event-wise, then nothing is ever original anymore. I'm positive I can do something similar with every single anime in existance. But even this comparison doesn't make much sense to me either. Is Fuuko becoming less and less human? Did everyone slowly forget about Makoto before she died? Did either of those two situations happen to Ayu? Seems like a fairly large leap of logic to me.

There is one large difference because these are shows released by the same studio in very similar styles and consecutively as well. If this was a dfferent studio with its own style making this story, then ok I would agree with you about the point being made here.

Do you watch these shows for the events, or do you watch for the character drama? These are two completely different things. You can have the events without the drama, but it's how the characters react and interact that lends the show substance. Nagisa's prominent presence in Fuuko's arc already makes this very different from whatever Kanon had. Same goes for the inclusion of Kyou, Ryou, Tomoyo, and especially Sunohara.

I watch the show for mainly character drama, but events can play a huge role in the overall enjoyment. Nagisa's presence is certainly a differentiating factor between the two, but then again I never did say they were identical, but very similar.

And besides, if this really was the Makoto arc, then I demand my Amano Mishio proxy. That girl's just adorable. But enough about that...

She certainly was.

I'm pretty sure your last sentence barely even applies to Tomoya. In Clannad, there isn't really anything like "trying to do whatever they can". Fuuko started out with a set mission: to celebrate her sister's wedding. Nothing's changed, regardless of any revelations about ghosts and comas and whatever. Fuuko is doing this out of selflessness, all for her sister's sake, and isn't asking others for help for herself. Both the setup and the end point are completely different for the two arcs.

What? She transformed into a fox to meet Yuiichi after all those years. She also had a set goal in mind, meeting Yuiichi again and spending time with him because she felt abandoned, and Yuiichi didn't have to spend time with her. He chose to spend time with her. Same with Tomoya, he doesn't have to follow around Fuko like he is and trying to hand out those wooden star fishes while getting emotional for her when she's being forgotten. It was his choice to get involved with her, and he is the one who is convincing her sister to get married. I mean c'mon.

The idea of making a dying person's last days enjoyable isn't somehow unique to just Kanon, you know. Many, many stories utilize the same idea, so what's wrong with another story using it? So long as the details aren't the same (and seriously, very few details match between Makoto's arc and Fuuko's), such a simple idea can be spruced up in a multitude of ways. If you didn't like seeing Fuuko's arc just becaues of this, then I suggest you never watch A Walk to Remember, Hanbun no Tsuki ga Noboru Sora, or who knows how many Korean dramas. And before you make accusations across different shows for using this theme, remember that even Kanon itself is guilty of reusing it. Shiori's arc, anyone?

There isn't anything wrong with rehashing a new idea, but like I mentioned before, it is the same studio doing this anime after Kanon in a similar style which to me kills the feeling. The variations are there, but it is way too similar to their past work and it should be spruced up a lot more. Like others have said I feel like I'm watching an abomination of Makoto/Ayu and a little bit of Shiori.

[FlareKnight]

Well finally found some free time to see this episode. Have to agree it was a pretty emotional one. While Fuko hasn't been the character that's had my attention and concern a lot this was still a pretty good episode.

Have to give massive props to Sunohara. He really did care going out of his way to the hospital and being unable to just leave things as they were. But the real tough part was his struggle to try and keep Fuko in his mind. It really is true the hardest part of this is perhaps not that Fuko is being forgotten but the characters. Sunohara displayed a lot of heart and that he is a good guy under all of it. While he and Fuko weren't always on good terms :heh:, he didn't want to forget.

Now I can't wait to see how this arc ends. A bit worried about how emotional this is all going to be regardless of how important Fuko has been to me. But how Tomoya and Nagisa are going to handle things. Will they be able to hold onto the memories until the wedding?

[Mirrinus]

There is one large difference because these are shows released by the same studio in very similar styles and consecutively as well. If this was a dfferent studio with its own style making this story, then ok I would agree with you about the point being made here.

There isn't anything wrong with rehashing a new idea, but like I mentioned before, it is the same studio doing this anime after Kanon in a similar style which to me kills the feeling. The variations are there, but it is way too similar to their past work and it should be spruced up a lot more. Like others have said I feel like I'm watching an abomination of Makoto/Ayu and a little bit of Shiori.

Sorry, I really have to disagree with such a requirement for judging a show. See, I judge a show based on the content, not on the credits. The way I see it, Clannad is the evolution of Kyoto Animation and Key/Visual Arts past works, distilling the stuff I liked while getting rid of the stuff I didn't like. I don't see anything inherently wrong with using similar styles or themes. Do you think it's inherently wrong? If so, I'd like to hear why. Personally, I'm very cynical when it comes to originality; I believe that there's really nothing new under the sun, only subtle changes to time-worn ideas that may be executed better. I really dislike it when people criticize a show for not being "innovative", as if it was an unspoken law that that was all there is to what makes a show good. I'd like to hear what you think on the subject.

What? She transformed into a fox to meet Yuiichi after all those years. She also had a set goal in mind, meeting Yuiichi again and spending time with him because she felt abandoned, and Yuiichi didn't have to spend time with her. He chose to spend time with her.

Same with Tomoya, he doesn't have to follow around Fuko like he is and trying to hand out those wooden star fishes while getting emotional for her when she's being forgotten. It was his choice to get involved with her, and he is the one who is convincing her sister to get married. I mean c'mon.

See, I don't call "having a set goal in mind" to be enough of a link to claim that two shows are the same. What were the motives behind both? In Makoto's case, her reason was more or less just completely selfish. She wanted to be with Yuuichi, and it was Yuuichi in the first place who caused this reaction from her. Once Yuuichi realized that he had wronged her years ago, he felt obligated to spend time with her. I don't really think Yuuichi did it just because he's a total saint; he was clearly at fault in the situation from the beginning. He didn't just choose to spend time with her, he did it as atonement, at least according to my eyes.

By contrast, Fuuko isn't nearly as selfish or dependant upon Tomoya. Would Fuuko still be there, doing the same thing regarding her sister's wedding, if Tomoya didn't even exist? My bet is yes. You can't say the same for Makoto and Yuuichi. Fuuko is working to make her sister happy by celebrating her wedding; she's not doing it for her own sake, like Makoto or even Ayu. I really appreciated this selflessness from her, and allowed me to sympathize with her from a different level (since I wasn't too fond of the romance in the Makoto and Ayu arcs). Likewise, Tomoya honestly didn't have any direct, personal reason to be helping Fuuko, like Yuuichi did with Makoto. So why did he? Because of Nagisa. If you'd recall, it was Nagisa who took the decisive first step, committing herself to helping out Fuuko. Tomoya was mostly following her lead, it seems. Because of this distancing between Tomoya and Nagisa, we aren't left with a romantic relationship between the arc's heroine and the protagonist like we did with Kanon; instead, we have a parent-child relationship, and not just a father-child relationship (which some may argue Makoto's was with Yuuichi), but one that includes a mother: Nagisa. And finally, this relationship is extremely important to establish for the strong overall theme of family in the show, whcih I find to be a key divergence between Clannad and past titles like Kanon or AIR.

[holyman282]

There isn't anything wrong with rehashing a new idea, but like I mentioned before, it is the same studio doing this anime after Kanon in a similar style which to me kills the feeling. The variations are there, but it is way too similar to their past work and it should be spruced up a lot more.

Well considering that it is the same studio, animating a visual novel by the same group as Kanon(Key), obviously there is going to be similarities. As for sprucing it up, I think they've certainly done that, not sure about you but there were some pretty funny moments in Fuko's arc as well as some allusions to Key's other visual novels.. That's as much sprucing up as Kyo can do without changing the story completely from the original source of the visual novel.

Like others have said I feel like I'm watching an abomination of Makoto/Ayu and a little bit of Shiori.

Abomination?:twitch: Aren't you being a bit harsh there. Certainly Fuko's arc carries similiar elements of Kanon but I wouldn't go as far as to call it an abomination. I originally felt disconnected with Fuko's predicament but gradually warmed up to it and even if you didn't, Kyoani's work certainly doesn't deserve the title of abomination.

[Reckoner]

First I want to make something clear, I don't necessarily dislike this show more than Kanon, in fact I may end up rating it as high or better then Kanon. It just falls short of my expectations is my point. There is nothing wrong with it is what you're saying Mirrinus, and you are correct. That doesn't mean innovation wouldn't be helpful in capturing a different type of show.

Let me give you a popular example of innovation that is done with the same style. Cowboy Bebop, an anime that I've seen almost no one disregard for its awesomeness, was innovated later by the same director with Samurai Champloo. Different setting, different type of plot, although it had the same style. Then the storyboard writer of Cowboy Bebop uses a similar style and creates Wolf's Rain, and even more recent creates Darker Than Black. This is what I liked to see in innovating. Yes nothing is ORIGINAL like you put it, but that is not my point at all although you keep throwing that at me.

You call Clannad the evolution of Kyoto Animation, and you are not wrong, but it just seems like stagnated evolution. I definitely appreciate the bits of comedy present compared to Kanon and I'll congratulate Clannad for this, but it just feels like the same show. The pacing, and especially the drama are so so so similar.

Ok now on to the Mokoto deal, all right Yuiichi is more "obligated" than Tomoya for sure. Yet, ever since that scene where they found out that Fuko's sister cannot see her spirit form or "manifestation" I cannot honestly believe that he isn't emotionally obligated now. I do agree however that Fuko differs from Mokoto in that she is being selfless and not selfish. That may be the only difference from the Kanon girls that I see in her. It however has no effect on the outlook of her persona to me.

Ah, holyman282, Kyoani's works are not an abomination themselves. Unlike many other animes out there I would call it a beautful piece of art (That first scene of Clannad is all you have to see to know). I am just expressing my intense dislike for Fuko as I believe she is a failure of a touching character to "my" heart.

[Mirrinus]

Hmm, I still can't agree that the drama is so similar at all with Kanon's. There is no dynamic relationship in Kanon that could parallel what we see now with Tomoya and Nagisa. I honestly believe that Nagisa really does immensely change how Clannad is played out compared to Kanon or AIR. Would not adding an important character, who gets more screentime than even the arc's actual heroine, and who is considerably different from the standard Key male protagonist that we're used to seeing in the same situation, be considered a notable innovation? I don't think the attention should all go to just Tomoya and Fuuko, when Nagisa is arguably one-third of the arc's story anyway. It's almost as if people are content with tunnel vision, expecting and examining just the male protagonist and the arc's heroine like they did with Kanon, all the while ignoring the biggest innovation that Clannad offers. If you want to see how similar two shows are, don't just look for Kanon parallels in Clannad. Check and see if you can also find Clannad parallels in Kanon. Can you find a Nagisa figure anywhere? Nagisa is most assuredly not a character that you can just write off; she's been integral to the story so far, and the next episode preview shows no signs of that ending quite yet.

You're not really giving me very many specifics concerning exactly why you think the drama is similar. Personally, one of my pet peeves is when people only point out problems without suggesting solutions. So if you think the drama in Clannad is too similar to that of Kanon's, what would you change to make it different? I wish to understand exactly what issues you have with it, because I'm still sort of unclear with what you're stating.

[holyman282]

You're not really giving me very many specifics concerning exactly why you think the drama is similar. Personally, one of my pet peeves is when people only point out problems without suggesting solutions. So if you think the drama in Clannad is too similar to that of Kanon's, what would you change to make it different? I wish to understand exactly what issues you have with it, because I'm still sort of unclear with what you're stating.

I think the problem he has is similiar to the problem I use to have with Fuko's arc. That you don't emotionally connect with it because of the fact that he's seen a similiar plot in Kyo's Kanon. That said there doesn't really exist a solution to solve the problem of similarity without changing the whole plot of Fuko's arc.


Ah, holyman282, Kyoani's works are not an abomination themselves. Unlike many other animes out there I would call it a beautful piece of art (That first scene of Clannad is all you have to see to know). I am just expressing my intense dislike for Fuko as I believe she is a failure of a touching character to "my" heart.

I can certainly relate to your predicament, as I also thought of Fuko's arc that way too.. I have long gotten over the similiarity between Kanon and Clannad. Certainly Fuko displays plot elements from several of the Kanon characters, but she also has her own unique character and character development.

As I've said previously:

That's what I thought originally. But I think Kyo has developed Fuko's character subtly. We get little bits of her character through the funny scenes involving her. The scenes make us laugh, we enjoy it, but most people aren't emotionally connected but then when the chance comes that Fuko may possibly dissapear, we truly value her as a character and hence become emotionally attached. A very subtle development culminates into extremely teary drama and leaves you wondering why you're crying when you hardly felt connected to Fuko early on anyway.

Something along the lines of "you don't know what you've got until it's gone"

That's how I feel anyway. I been watching the Fuko arc with a cynical and detached attitude and yet this ep and the last still managed to touch me in ways I can't describe.

While watching Fuko's actions here and there, you really do get attached to her character. Her odd bits of humour, not to mention her strange behaviour are all endearing and grabs the audience. Without knowing it, you become attracted to her character and the moment comes when you think she'll dissapear, you suddenly realise how deeply etched Fuko really was in all of our hearts.

Fuko's arc does not provoke emotions through particularly sad scenes (although some of the scenes are pretty sad) it provokes emotions through etching Fuko's character into our hearts subtley and then suddenly ripping what you've taken for granted away suddenly.

[Reckoner]

I do agree that there is no such thing as a Nagisa/Tomoya relationship so far in Kyoani's history. This will probably play a huge role in Clannad's story.

I'll explain more later when I get the time to post, but Akiko's reaction to Mokoto and Nagisa's mother's reaction to Fuko is the same drama. I felt it really hard in Kanon when she broke down crying, super mothers don't cry!. Then in Clannad a similar thing happens, but there is a difference that she broke down in front of the actual character. So yes they do have their differences, but its like taking Kanon and making it better. I'll give many more examples later (going to school), so I'll think of a whole list for you. My problems in Clannad so far have only been in Fuko's arc just to let you know. I was quite interested in a male lead who was the one who needed help himself and not the helper.

There isn't really a solution to Clannad, I am just pointing out how watching Kanon2006, makes the show not as enjoyable as I would like it to be. It could've been twice as good if I just didn't watch Kanon a couple weeks ago.

[kyonkun]

It's allergy season, so I used a lot of Visine to get the red out, but it kept dripping down my face. Fine, I cried. Happy? :p

Today's post is brought to you by the letter 'M', for 'moving'.

This episode moved me.

Sunohara's seriousness was heartfelt. He cared enough to do background research and visit a hospital (that was far away, if I remember the context) to see if Fuu-chan is the same Fuko who has been injured.

You could feel the unease that Nagisa's father went through. He knew something was wrong and admitted to it. He just expressed his frustration in a macho way ("Let's play ball.").

Sanae-okaasan's reaction was heart-breaking. What a wonderful mother.

Notice how Nagisa would instinctively hug Fuko every time someone demonstrated progressive amnesia? It was as if Nagisa wanted to reassure Fuko that Fuko was not completely forgotten. In a way, it's also Nagisa's way of reassuring herself that Fuko will not disappear from her own memories.

For older anime viewers out there, this episode reminds me of the pain that my friends went through when their parents developed Alzheimer's and forgot their names. It's a horrifying way for things to end, for both parents and their children. The difference is that when one have Alzheimer's, one forgets things without being conscious of it. (For instance, one wouldn't go through the agony that Sunohara, Tomoyo, and Company experienced.) However, the impact is devastating on the children when their own parents can't recognize them.

A real-life example would be former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor's husband, who has Alzheimer's, falling in love with another patient at his assisted living center. Mrs. O'Connor, to her credit, is understanding and supportive of the new relationship. It's probably painful for her, though, to realize that her husband of 55 years has lost the memories they had together.

The preview for the next episode hints that the arc will conclude. Perhaps that will placate the Fuko-haters or the Fuko-meh'ers.

Speaking of which...(digression ahead)...

Maybe it's just me...I saw Kanon last year, and I enjoyed (not quite the right word, but you know what I mean) the Makoto arc. I did not play the game, did not read the spoilers, and watched the production with an open mind. It did help that I enjoyed Melonpan-y of Haruhi (I'm watching Shana--deal :D), so I am under the influence of KyoAni's halo effect. Probably a good thing, as I had multiple WTF moments when I saw Air.

I'm enjoying (not the right word, but you know what I mean) the Fuko arc in Clannad. Maybe it has to do with me taking the same approach. I did not play the game, did not read the spoilers, and am watching the production with an open mind. It's interesting to see the Kanon parallels when observing the fans' reactions:

Kanon: less Makoto, a little less Ayu, more Shiori, definitely more Mai.

Clannad: less Fuko, a little less Nagisa, more Tomoyo, definitely more Kotomi...chan

(The above is from my point of view. I'm sure to stand corrected after hearing from you guys.)

If anything, my main criticism of Clannad so far has to do with the two segments in previous episodes covering 'the other world'. The segments were jarring and they interrupted the flow of events. At least Ayu's dream segments in the Kanon formed a pattern; they were repeated at the beginning of each episode and later converged to the pivotal event that explained Yuuichi's behavior in the entire series.

In other words, I would have been happy had the two (even if exquisitely animated) segments been removed to make room for more Fuko. That way, the Fuko arc would finish in fewer episodes, and the (newbie) viewer wouldn't go 'okaaaaay...WTF' every time that poor lonely girl and her Franken-Bear appears onscreen.

(Okay, I'll stop the Kanon comparisons now.)

[grey_moon]

Poor Fuuko, not only is she being forgotten in the show she is getting a battering here as well :(

But in regards to Sunohara's seriousness, which part of his actions was the most touching for people? For me it was when he was going about how he was coming back from another town and he couldn't remember why he went. It suddenly struck me how much of an effort he made and the reason for Tomoya's insistence to not go see her.

[Ashlotte]

That all aside, there is still one thing that prevents me from experiencing this show to the fullest - my absolute disinterest in Fuko's character, and my inability to sympathize with her even in the slightest. Somehow i don't think she is fit to be in the center of drama, because it doesn't work (for me at least). I am still pretty much looking towards the day when her arc is over and done with, so we can finally move on.

Probably surmises my thoughts on this arc of the show better then my blathering earlier...

As someone whose basically shed tears at every Key anime and game i've seen/played this arc just doesn't capture my heart like their previous stories have...Fu-chans a great comedian and as a comedy clannad would get full 10's from me, but as a tragic heroine figure trying to invoke a sense of drama its all very meh to me heh...

Ah well I look forward to what they do with the next part of the show after they get past this... ;)

[minhtam1638]

It's allergy season, so I used a lot of Visine to get the red out, but it kept dripping down my face. Fine, I cried. Happy? :p

Except it's not allergy season. It's flu season, and I caught it. Hard. It's been affecting my habits lately.

Today's post is brought to you by the letter 'M', for 'moving'.

This episode moved me.

Sometimes I wonder if the Dango Family is Clannad's version of Sesame Street.

Sunohara's seriousness was heartfelt. He cared enough to do background research and visit a hospital (that was far away, if I remember the context) to see if Fuu-chan is the same Fuko who has been injured.

That's one of the things that you don't ever expect from Youhei, especially after he keeps getting beat by Tomoyo (what's the combo count: 1014?). It shows that despite his pervertedness, he is rather mature and cares about his surrounding friends a lot.

You could feel the unease that Nagisa's father went through. He knew something was wrong and admitted to it. He just expressed his frustration in a macho way ("Let's play ball.").

Sanae-okaasan's reaction was heart-breaking. What a wonderful mother. [/quote[

This goes back to the fact that feelings are different than memories, and when one goes, the other doesn't necessarily go. One of the easiest ways to deal with that kind of matter is to fill it with new memories, but of course, Fuko isn't easy to be discarded.

[QUOTE=kyonkun;1273342]Notice how Nagisa would instinctively hug Fuko every time someone demonstrated progressive amnesia? It was as if Nagisa wanted to reassure Fuko that Fuko was not completely forgotten. In a way, it's also Nagisa's way of reassuring herself that Fuko will not disappear from her own memories.

You make a good point. A young girl who cannot be seen would want to find solace from someone who can see her, or else cry. I don't ever recall seeing Fuko cry, but there were many opportunities for her to.

For older anime viewers out there, this episode reminds me of the pain that my friends went through when their parents developed Alzheimer's and forgot their names. It's a horrifying way for things to end, for both parents and their children. The difference is that when one have Alzheimer's, one forgets things without being conscious of it. (For instance, one wouldn't go through the agony that Sunohara, Tomoyo, and Company experienced.) However, the impact is devastating on the children when their own parents can't recognize them.

A real-life example would be former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor's husband, who has Alzheimer's, falling in love with another patient at his assisted living center. Mrs. O'Connor, to her credit, is understanding and supportive of the new relationship. It's probably painful for her, though, to realize that her husband of 55 years has lost the memories they had together.

This is a good comparison to a real life situation, except the effect seems to be reversed. Give your friends my condolences.

The preview for the next episode hints that the arc will conclude. Perhaps that will placate the Fuko-haters or the Fuko-meh'ers.

Most likely. Seeing Tomoya and Nagisa sleep in school together and having sex all night without the presence of Fuko would most likely signify the end of Fuko's arc. However, I don't see how it's likely that it would take one episode. Most likely, it will take a half of an episode, and then we may progress one step (and only one step) through Nagisa's arc, much like Ayu's arc was somewhat gradual in Kanon.

Speaking of which...(digression ahead)...

Maybe it's just me...I saw Kanon last year, and I enjoyed (not quite the right word, but you know what I mean) the Makoto arc. I did not play the game, did not read the spoilers, and watched the production with an open mind. It did help that I enjoyed Melonpan-y of Haruhi (I'm watching Shana--deal :D), so I am under the influence of KyoAni's halo effect. Probably a good thing, as I had multiple WTF moments when I saw Air.

I'm enjoying (not the right word, but you know what I mean) the Fuko arc in Clannad. Maybe it has to do with me taking the same approach. I did not play the game, did not read the spoilers, and am watching the production with an open mind. It's interesting to see the Kanon parallels when observing the fans' reactions:

Kanon: less Makoto, a little less Ayu, more Shiori, definitely more Mai.

Clannad: less Fuko, a little less Nagisa, more Tomoyo, definitely more Kotomi...chan

(The above is from my point of view. I'm sure to stand corrected after hearing from you guys.)

For Kanon, I believe it's less Makoto, a little less Ayu, more Nayuki, and definitely more Mai. The reason for this is because many Kanon gamers were complaining about some of Nayuki's story pieces to be missing, while others had 95% of their story included, excluding the H-scenes, of course. The only reason I didn't put her as first priority over Mai is because Mai is too attractive to Kanon fans over the world.

If anything, my main criticism of Clannad so far has to do with the two segments in previous episodes covering 'the other world'. The segments were jarring and they interrupted the flow of events. At least Ayu's dream segments in the Kanon formed a pattern; they were repeated at the beginning of each episode and later converged to the pivotal event that explained Yuuichi's behavior in the entire series.

In other words, I would have been happy had the two (even if exquisitely animated) segments been removed to make room for more Fuko. That way, the Fuko arc would finish in fewer episodes, and the (newbie) viewer wouldn't go 'okaaaaay...WTF' every time that poor lonely girl and her Franken-Bear appears onscreen.

(Okay, I'll stop the Kanon comparisons now.)

I believe I like the idea of Ayu's dream segments and how they were in that kind of a pattern, but I don't think Clannad is taking that same direction. It doesn't seem as if the main focus will be on the 'other world' as many of us thought, therefore the sense that we shouldn't repeat it.

Personally, the problem with Clannad is that because we have more storyline to cover in the same amount of episodes, we have to cut some out, and this will generate negative response from the viewers. Kyoto Animation's "mistake" was that Kanon set a new standard for PC game adaptations, and everyone expects Clannad to be on par with Kanon. Although I am enjoying it so far, analysis-wise, the story makes less sense than Kanon.

[tripperazn]

Probably surmises my thoughts on this arc of the show better then my blathering earlier...

As someone whose basically shed tears at every Key anime and game i've seen/played this arc just doesn't capture my heart like their previous stories have...Fu-chans a great comedian and as a comedy clannad would get full 10's from me, but as a tragic heroine figure trying to invoke a sense of drama its all very meh to me heh...

Ah well I look forward to what they do with the next part of the show after they get past this... ;)

Yeah, amid the 1014 combos I almost forgot that Clannad is supposed to be a drama and not a harem comedy. The switch is abrupt, with backing for the drama almost kept to a minimal. I mean she lost her fanclub, but so far the anime has only made one reference acknowledging this loss. The forgetfulness did not have much impact until the end, since there has been minimal interaction between Fuuko and the cast aside from Nagisa and Tomoya. Props for the Sunohara scenes though...that was incredible.

If Kanon 2006 is any reference, I think KyoAni will pull this arc together at the last episode. I don't think anyone should judge the Fuuko arc for it's drama until it finishes.

[holyman282]

You make a good point. A young girl who cannot be seen would want to find solace from someone who can see her, or else cry. I don't ever recall seeing Fuko cry, but there were many opportunities for her to.

Yeah interesting that Fuko has never cried even though both Nagisa and Tomoya both got teary eyed. Basically I think Fuko has already accepted her situation, that she will disappear soon. I mean she already realised that seeing her sister won't do her any good before Tomoya's plan of making the two meet. Fuko's main goal right now is not to get people to remember her but to get as many people to attend her sister's wedding as possible before disappearing, which is already pretty sad because when people lose the memory of Fuko they in affect lose the memory of attending Ibuki-sensei's wedding. It's her endearing determination not to give up even though she knows there's no hope that established my connection with her (where previously there was none) and certainly makes her a character unique and different from Makoto or any other Kanon character.

Sunohora's scenes in this ep was surprisingly dramatic. My favourite part was when Fuko offered him the Starfish even though he's not sure what's going on and why he suddenly has a starfish in his hand. On the plus side Tomoyo still remembers Fuko although only after a little nudge in the right direction by Tomoya.

[Mirrinus]

Yeah interesting that Fuko has never cried even though both Nagisa and Tomoya both got teary eyed. Basically I think Fuko has already accepted her situation, that she will disappear soon. I mean she already realised that seeing her sister won't do her any good before Tomoya's plan of making the two meet. Fuko's main goal right now is not to get people to remember her but to get as many people to attend her sister's wedding as possible before disappearing, which is already pretty sad because when people lose the memory of Fuko they in affect lose the memory of attending Ibuki-sensei's wedding. It's her endearing determination not to give up even though she knows there's no hope that established my connection with her (where previously there was none) and certainly makes her a character unique and different from Makoto or any other Kanon character.

You make a pretty good point. I really don't think it's that Fuuko doesn't comprehend her own situation, because she does seem to understand what's really going on. It's that she doesn't want to let others see the pain that she's feeling, because she knows that it would hurt Tomoya and Nagisa even more. They're the ones volunteering their time and effort into helping her, so she can't let them down on her part. She's self-aware of her fate, unlike say Makoto.

I'm very anxious to see how her sister's wedding would turn out, and the final fruits of her labor. Perhaps we shouldn't be demanding that Fuuko wear her emotions on her sleeves, if in fact her actions and their consequences would speak for themselves.

[grey_moon]

I'm very anxious to see how her sister's wedding would turn out, and the final fruits of her labor. Perhaps we shouldn't be demanding that Fuuko wear her emotions on her sleeves, if in fact her actions and their consequences would speak for themselves.

I think Fuuko's emotions were really well shown when Tomoya was trying to comfort her on the way home after her 3rd year class mate forgot.

[holyman282]

Considering that Fuko was quite isolated and introvert during her time in her real body, I think saying that she likes Tomoya more than sea slugs is quite consistent of a person without much association with people.

Also that scene was quite sweet, it shows Fuko showing her appreciation for all of Tomoya's help in a way only Fuko can show.


I'm very anxious to see how her sister's wedding would turn out, and the final fruits of her labor. Perhaps we shouldn't be demanding that Fuuko wear her emotions on her sleeves, if in fact her actions and their consequences would speak for themselves.

Certainly Fuko wearing her emotions on her sleeves would be nice and it probably will happen. When it happens us viewers will know that it's a result of Tomoya's and Nagisa's care of Fuko. I'm seriously anticipating some heavy drama and tear jerker moments next ep, everyone complains about how it's like Makoto's arc from Kanon, well this ep and the next ep are crucial in differentiating the two.

[kyonkun]

Minhtam, thanks for your thoughtful response.

Except it's not allergy season. It's flu season, and I caught it. Hard. It's been affecting my habits lately.

To clarify my previous post: it's not allergy season at all. 'Cuz I was lying through my teeth. :)
(I get allergies when the weather is sunny and warm air currents are unhelpfully delivering tree pollen into my eyes and nasal passages.)

Sorry to hear that you caught the flu, though. Several of my friends have caught it, too. Hope you get well soon.

Sometimes I wonder if the Dango Family is Clannad's version of Sesame Street.
This made me laugh. For some reason, "Fuko=Mr. Snuffleupagus" popped up in my head.

That's one of the things that you don't ever expect from Youhei...it shows that despite his pervertedness, he is rather mature and cares about his surrounding friends a lot.

It was quite a trip to hear him mention Fuko's name out of the blue. It does show that he cares about her even though his memories of her have gone.

This goes back to the fact that feelings are different than memories, and when one goes, the other doesn't necessarily go.
This is a nice quote. Quite profound.

One of the easiest ways to deal with that kind of matter is to fill it with new memories, but of course, Fuko isn't easy to be discarded.
This is an interesting topic. When I saw the 'virtually' [heh] universally-panned "Johnny Mnemonic" starring (pre-Neo) Keanu Reeves, I was interested in the concept of using one's brain as a hard drive to store data. To stretch the metaphor, apparently there was too much classified data for Keanu's brain to handle, so the data began overwriting his childhood memories, causing amnesia.

Back to Clannad and technology...or lack of. I only noticed it as I was typing this post: I don't recall seeing computers, the Internet, or cell phones. Since the Japanese (especially Japanese girls) have a reputation for being mobile-maniacs (remember those cell phone centric episodes of Lucky Star?), you would think someone would have got a cell phone pic of Fuko to show the rest of the gang.

This is a good comparison to a real life situation, except the effect seems to be reversed. Give your friends my condolences.
Thanks for your support. You're right, the situation is reversed, as if everyone around Nagisa and Tomoya was developing dementia. "Fuko who?"

For Kanon, I believe it's less Makoto, a little less Ayu, more Nayuki, and definitely more Mai.
You're right. I stand corrected.

The reason for this is because many Kanon gamers were complaining about some of Nayuki's story pieces to be missing, while others had 95% of their story included...
Ah, thanks for the helpful explanation. I never played the game, so I didn't know that Nayuki's story was cropped in the anime.

Kyoto Animation's "mistake" was that Kanon set a new standard for PC game adaptations, and everyone expects Clannad to be on par with Kanon. Although I am enjoying it so far, analysis-wise, the story makes less sense than Kanon.
Good observation; I agree. I remember watching the first episode of Lucky Star during the summer and going "It this really a KyoAni production?" If it wasn't for the catchy dance sequence, I would have thought otherwise.

Moreover, I think our expections extend beyond PC game adaptations when it comes to KyoAni. A number of fans are highly anticipating the next seasons of Full Metal Panic and Haruhi. It's almost annoying to hear them lament the existance of Clannad. ("Why are they wasting this time?") Makes me want to stuff their faces shut with anpan :)

(For the record, I didn't like how Air messed around with my emotions, and I gave up on Shuffle after the first dozen episodes. Kanon was the first PC game adaptation I truly enjoyed, and I hope to get similar warm and fuzzy feelings from Clannad.)

[bloodyknight]

Hey!!! All I want to say is... I agree with each and every one of you with all your opinions in this... Each have their own saying and reason to back them up... there is no denying about that... And basically, you all have said all I want to say...

But guys, let us realize one thing... The next episode may be the last time we ever see Ibuki Fuko It is something we should be said about... It will mean 'death' of this cute character who has started the ball rolling for Clannad... Let's give her a one minute of silence for her existence in this anime and having its start a successful one...

[holyman282]

Good observation; I agree. I remember watching the first episode of Lucky Star during the summer and going "It this really a KyoAni production?" If it wasn't for the catchy dance sequence, I would have thought otherwise.

I'm not sure if you're saying Lucky Star is bad or whether it's good. I personally did not enjoy it as much as other people and that's mainly because the demographics Lucky Star was aiming at didn't match me. On a analytical perspective I thought Lucky Star was a materpiece, taking a dig at the Otaku lifestyle.

I think Kyoani should be praised for their versatility in terms of genres. Perhaps you wondered whether Lucky Star was Kyoani because of the very reason that the genre or style did not match your taste.

Moreover, I think our expections extend beyond PC game adaptations when it comes to KyoAni. A number of fans are highly anticipating the next seasons of Full Metal Panic and Haruhi. It's almost annoying to hear them lament the existance of Clannad. ("Why are they wasting this time?") Makes me want to stuff their faces shut with anpan :)

(For the record, I didn't like how Air messed around with my emotions, and I gave up on Shuffle after the first dozen episodes. Kanon was the first PC game adaptation I truly enjoyed, and I hope to get similar warm and fuzzy feelings from Clannad.)

You see that's the problem with viewers. After seeing one series that was amazingly done i.e. Kanon. People keep expecting better and better adaptation but do not realise that there is a saturation point for creativity and innovation in bishoujo game adaptation. Kyoani's Kanon remake worked so they are implementing a already successful formula for Clannad. That's reasonable considering that Clannad is another Key game. Considering the similarities in Kanon and Clannad as both being a Key game and both adapted into a series by the same studio, similarities are to be expected and high expectations are justified but people shouldn't be dissapointed when the show falls short of most people's extremely high expectation of Kyoani..


There is nothing wrong with sticking to the same formula and I think Kyoani has certainly showed creativity by making Clannad a unique series and different from Kanon even though both shows has similar elements.

[kim8268]

I might agree with mithtam, that the story of fuko is mostly like ayu and makoto( a little bit of shiori) I have a little hunch about the story, demo I'll keep it for myself
Gooooooooo. ........
Nice ending............................................ ........
Plssssssssssssssssssss............................ .............................
and I was thinking, if fuko was in a coma if i was her sibling I would try to talk to the students that saw her, if it was me demo its the writer's decision. I hope it's not a bad ending like school days. I still had a trauma after watching the final episode
im not good at this but this is what my analysis.
I think that some of the ending will turn what would we expect because at the begging of the anime tomoyo said something about hating the city before meeting fukukawa
I think that it is much deeper than his fight with his otosan and he didn't knew that there were many weird people in this town it is almost like the story ended a long time ago and he is remembering it again. It is almost like the writer is giving us a preview about what kind of ending it might be. that what I think(I don't like to say about my first hunch

[Divini]

You see that's the problem with viewers. After seeing one series that was amazingly done i.e. Kanon. People keep expecting better and better adaptation but do not realise that there is a saturation point for creativity and innovation in bishoujo game adaptation.

That's exactly what was in my head this whole time but I couldn't put into words. Really, each time KyoAni produces a new anime, their storytelling technique reaches milestone after milestone and a lot of people think it will just keep going. This is readily apparant if you have watched KyoAni's productions (think Air -> FMP -> Haruhi -> Kanon).

You can see how they got better in pacing and story interweaving from Air to Kanon, and although Kanon has some gripes from fans (a certain character's route and a certain character's amount of screentime, for example); In my opinion I thought they reached the pinnacle in their game -> anime conversion skill with this anime, while still keeping the 'magic' alive even for the veterans of Kanon. (at least that was the case for me)

As I am watching Clannad now; Yes, I can see the similarities, and I would be lying if I didn't think about how Fuuko relates to certain character arcs in the Kanon anime, but still... I think people are setting their bar *way* too high for something new/innovative/genre-defining to happen. There's only so much freedom and creativity you can inject in a bishoujo adaptation. Considering they're both KEY games too you can expect similar themes.

For me, I am highly enjoying Fuuko's arc atm, so whatever they're doing, it works. Even if Clannad has/will have parts that aren't exactly the most unique snowflakes, that doesn't make this anime any less enjoyable for me.

[FatPianoBoy]

+1, Divini.

I can't help but think that, had KyoAni done Clannad before Kanon, people would be whining about how Ayu's story was just a rip off of Fuuko ;)

[The Chaos]

Ep So sad When Every one Start to forget Fu-chan ....
I gauss She Gonna Also forget in the next Ep ...I don't want that to happened ...
I loved her the most..

[kimchipride]

Looks like everyone who watched raw of ep 9 seemed to really enjoy it. I can't wait for subs.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

This episode was really emotional. I really didn't like watching all of the students forgetting about the wooden star that they got from Fuuko...that was really sad seeing all of them forgetting or not even seeing her. Not to mention from the Fujibayashi sisters...they seem to remember, but couldn't. Same goes with Tomoyo. She tried her best to remember, but couldn't. Sunohara had a different change of pace in terms of character in this episode. He went from comedy relief character to actually becoming serious and involved in this story. I really liked how he had the ambition to find out who Fuuko was, but end up forgetting about her. But the scene where he tried his best to remember Fuuko was an emotional one. But the really emotional scene in this episode was towards the end, where Nagisa's mom tried to remember who Fuuko was, but in reality, she too couldn't see her, so she broke down in tears.

Great episode!

[HandofFate]

Sunohara is so awesome.
What's with the best/good friend of the main character being so manly?
I really felt the scene when he was trying to remember but was deeply troubled that he knew something was missing.

[AlwaysThinking]

Hello everyone!

Just finished watching A.F.K.'s version of this episode. Is the sound out of sync for anyone else?

[boggart]

Hello everyone!

Just finished watching A.F.K.'s version of this episode. Is the sound out of sync for anyone else?
Not watching a.f.k.'s sub so can't say... :p

[konstargirl]

OMG it was so sad that people forgot about Fuko. I can wait until I watch episode 9 tommorow.

I almost cried in the parts that Nagisa-chan and Okazaki-san try to tell people to remember Fuko. :(

[Proto]

Get a hold of a pack of tissue boxes. You'll need it :heh:

[Shinigami_Mello]

Ahaha, you'll sure enjoy the next one then xD

[metal-blaze]

I Swear I Could have cried when They were tryin to get Sunohara to remember

[iori21]

it was really sad :sad: