[Manga] Sloppy endings. Finish him a la Mortal Kombat

[Suna no tate]

Lately I've seen a recurring theme in Naruto that has been troubling me. I remember when Haku was pozing as a hunter nin and kakashi stated that to confirm a death, cutting off the head and destroying the body was normal practice. The reason is higher level nins who would be hunted are shiftier and so you must absolutely confirm you've killed them by destroying the body and so on. Even a child like Haku understands this.

Yet I'm upset because some of the very best nins in this series are stupid enough to forget how shifty an opponent can be and that simple shuriken and swords slashes, albeit well placed, may not be enough. They forget the simple rule of leaving no stone unturned.

-Sasuke slashes tobi only to watch him get up
-Kakashi stabs kakuzu with a chidori only to watch him get up (I believe this happens 2x even. In addition, even on the last final blow, what proof does kakashi have that kakuzu wasn't lying and didn't have some 6th or 7th heart stashed away?)
-Jiraiya stabs the 3 pains, and walks away only to watch them get up
-Hidan technically isn't dead

And so on. There are lots of examples of high level nins being sloppy, and not finishing off an opponent when they should have. They face these opponents, openly acknowledge their strength and skill, and then simply assume that little knicks and cuts and the standard means of killing a normal person is enough for this person they know is very powerful. Why not use a fire jutsu on the downed opponent? Why not have a summon eat the body? Why not be sure?

So what do you say? Was jiraiya stupid in simply walking away and not for example, cutting off the heads like a true hunter nin would have? Wouldn't you be ultra careful if you were in his shoes?

[tatami]

pein said so...do not underestimate your enemy.

[TooPurePureBoy]

Wouldn't you be ultra careful if you were in his shoes?

If I were in his shoes I would have put them through a wood-chipper-shredder ala the movie Fargo.

[Struggler]

Disposing of the body is not to confirm the death. Dead bodies can contain secrets: secrets that can be extracted via experiments/autopsy. It's NOT for confirmation.

If you're not interested in the secrets and you think the person is dead then you wouldn't care what happens to the body.

Jiraiya thought the 3 bodies were dead. Stupid because it's hard to believe that Jiraiya haven't encountered people who could survive with a large sword through their chest.

What is more stupid is that, Jiraiya was gonna let 3 dead bodies with the mythical eye lying around. Why wouldn't Jiraiya be interested in the secrets? Why would he risk others finding it? That doesn't make sense.

Same thing with Hidan. Hidan's body holds important secrets. Shikamaru should have been too smart to let his selfish revenge get the better of him. Tsunade should have taken the body and tried to extract the secrets.

At least with, kazuku, they did an autopsy.

[TooPurePureBoy]

Ya that's sort of an unfortunate thing that Kishi seems to have forgotten about. At the beginning there was all kinds of talk about stealing secrets and stuff from corpses and how ninja bloodlines were really rare and hard sought after. Now all that stuff seems tertiary. The primary goal for any ninja who wants to become powerful in Kishi's story is not to steal secrets and learn cool jutsus, but it's to become some Monster with dues ex machina like immortality.

Still a cool story but I wish he hadn't gone the DBZ route so hard.

[Spideyknight]

People not getting the job done correctly costs lives. See Kakashi Gaiden arc as a prime example. Before tending to Ren they should have severed the head from the shoulders of their enemy. This would've confirmed he wasn't dead and would've prevented the tragic events that occurred afterwards.

Even during the Sasuke vs Naruto fight. Naruto had Sasuke at a clear disadvantage, but instead of breaking him, he told him he was going to break him limb from limb. Do not speak when you have the advantage, act. The objective of the mission is to capture the enemy, this does not mean he needs to be able to move. In fact it's preferable if he can't. Arms, legs, ribs all prime candidates to be broken. Tsunade can put him back together when I haul his ass back.

[monstert]

Hey, if Jiraiya escapes this battle, Tsunade could probably learn from Kakuzu's corpse on how to make a new working arm for him.

On the topic: Yeah, they're sloppy. But life is full of those types of people. That's why they got special ninjas to do it.

[Quzor]

The objective of the mission is to capture the enemy, this does not mean he needs to be able to move. In fact it's preferable if he can't. Arms, legs, ribs all prime candidates to be broken.
This reminds me of when Kisame/Itachi first run into Naruto in the hotel, and Kisame suggests breaking some arms or legs so Naruto can't struggle or fight back. At least someone has their head in the right place, and their ninja priorities in order.

[tatami]

not to broke but to cut.

[Quzor]

meh, either/or; the point is that his head is in the right place: your target can't get away if he has no working arms/legs.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

In this Naruto world i believe you need to make sure that your enemy becomes dust...because Hidan would get up...Orochimaru would somehow return...Pein just pops out of nowhere again.

Yep...there are plenty of Majin Buu's here. Fuuton Rasengan (100%) will be the cure to this spreading disease.

I think back in the old days (Kakashi Gaiden) it was normal for someone to die from a shuriken or kunai. But these day's even paper seems more deadly..

[Ero-Senn1n]

If they did everything the way you all said the story would be much simpler. There is no short boss fight in shonen manga, so having a long fight is more important than all else. If things would work in a logical way than the more powerful the ninja the less time the fight would take. So on a very high level (akatsuki, sannin, kage) it would take seconds to end the fight. If there was no talking, no warmup with using weaker skills, but simply using the most powerful moves they have, combine them, etc.

[TooPurePureBoy]

There is no short boss fight in shonen manga,

I realize that most manga follow certain rules and norms of their genre, but wouldn't it be more healthy as an artist to throw away such hindrances and just write their "own" story.

This is probably a problem that stems from the fact that to be a manga author (unless you are partnered up with someone) you need to be a good storyteller and a good artist. The chances of a person being both is really pretty small. I guess when that happens you get "Berserk" or "Claymore" or something, though i'm sure they follow certain patterns as well.

I guess I (and others apparently) just wish some manga writers would be more willing to follow in the footsteps of histories great writers. Don't allow certain traditions to hold you back just use you're imagination and go for it. Of course if they did that they probably wouldn't have a contract with Shonen Jump and therefore no paycheck so ya lol I can't really blame them there. :heh:

[uchit]

you tell him nine tails nin. I wonder if kishimoto runs the internet, trying to read our comments? hmm, probably not, but anyway i agree with the above.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Naruto vs the Kyuubi will probably take 20 chapters...if that will be the final battle of the show...

[TooPurePureBoy]

As pertaining to this title wouldn't it be smart to just keep fighting you're opponent until you get a "Flawless Victory" announcement. :heh:

I would also accept: Superb, Outstanding, Toasty, and just a plain old Victory.

[Spideyknight]

I'd only stop when I heard "Brutality." There's simply no reason you shouldn't push Rasengan all the way through the chest and have it come spiraling out the other side.

[Quzor]

I'd only stop when I heard "Brutality." There's simply no reason you shouldn't push Rasengan all the way through the chest and have it come spiraling out the other side.

I always thought that was the point anyway. When Jiraiya was first showing Naruto the difference between a complete rasengan, and stage one rasengan, he pushed the complete rasengan all the way through the tree, taking out a huge chunk. Why wouldn't you just do that to you're opponent? Certainly, they're not going to be getting up after you remove the greater portion of their torso.

[Sabaku Kyu]

So what do you say? Was jiraiya stupid in simply walking away and not for example, cutting off the heads like a true hunter nin would have? Wouldn't you be ultra careful if you were in his shoes?


Well, Jiraiya isn't a hunter nin. And hunter nin only follow that procedure on rogue nin from their own village, which Pein is not. But, even if Jiraiya had stayed behind, chopped off their heads, burned the bodies then spit on the ashes that wouldn't have helped him avoid the attack by Pein's other body, which is what really cost him. And we don't even know if it would've prevented the bodies from being resurrected.

In all the other examples, the characters had good reason not to take extra measures against the enemy

- Sasuke had no time to worry about clumsy Tobi, instead, he focused attention on Deidara, who was chucking bombs at him.

- Kakashi didn't watch Kakuzu get up, he immediately went to finish off Hidan who was still standing.

- Hidan is dead.

99.9% of all ninja in the Narutoverse are "normal" and would die from a chidori through the heart or a sword in the chest. Even kages. Haku, Sound 4, Kimimaro..once they died, they were dead for good. No body dismemberment necessary. Akatsuki's immortality abilities are extremely rare, and that's what makes them such dangerous shinobi in the first place. But readers have come to expect that as the norm seeing them.

[Ero-Senn1n]

I realize that most manga follow certain rules and norms of their genre, but wouldn't it be more healthy as an artist to throw away such hindrances and just write their "own" story.

This is probably a problem that stems from the fact that to be a manga author (unless you are partnered up with someone) you need to be a good storyteller and a good artist. The chances of a person being both is really pretty small. I guess when that happens you get "Berserk" or "Claymore" or something, though i'm sure they follow certain patterns as well.

I guess I (and others apparently) just wish some manga writers would be more willing to follow in the footsteps of histories great writers. Don't allow certain traditions to hold you back just use you're imagination and go for it. Of course if they did that they probably wouldn't have a contract with Shonen Jump and therefore no paycheck so ya lol I can't really blame them there. :heh:

There are some rules in all the art genres and even the greatest artists follow them and sometimes invent them. What we learn in school are these rules/laws, and based on that all art pieces can be sorted. It's just that manga styles and genres are not thaught in schools, actually i never heard anything about comics in school lessons, old people simply do not regard these to be art or to have any value.

I think following these rules, in this case shonen manga rules is not a problem, on the contrary, it makes the manga better. I expect a boss fight to be long, of course it depends on the author if it is filler bullshit or a masterpiece where you wait each week for the next chapter and discuss the whole story on the forums like this. And i'm sure most of us readers expect that Naruto follows these rules, it's not the form that makes something crap or masterpiece but the actual content.
It's like food ( for example ramen :D ), we expect it to look the same as always, it's the taste that makes someone a great cook while the other a mediocre or bad cook. And the Naruto manga surely tastes damn good :)

[Spectacular_Insanity]

-Kakashi stabs kakuzu with a chidori only to watch him get up (I believe this happens 2x even. In addition, even on the last final blow, what proof does kakashi have that kakuzu wasn't lying and didn't have some 6th or 7th heart stashed away?)
-Jiraiya stabs the 3 pains, and walks away only to watch them get up
-Hidan technically isn't dead

About those things. I agree.

For Kakuzu, beheading would be the easiest way of assuring that he actually dies. And I think your point of him maybe having more hearts/organs than he claimed is quite obvious. I mean, he could be lying, after all. Damn cheater...

About Jiraiya & Pein, same thing as Kakuzu. He ain't dead 'til his head is cut off.

Okay, so beheading doesn't work with Hidan, but they could have just done him in a la Resident Evil style---burn the body. I mean, he may be "immortal", but what would he do if his body were turned to ash first? Just a thought.

It seems many ninja forget their own credo: "A ninja must see through deception." Obviously they all forgot that.

[HiroInazuma]

I dont blame Jiraiya though, he was probably like 'Im going to find a really big sword from out of nowhere and stab it in them to make sure they are dead' then Pein got up and he was like 'OMG NO FREAKIN WAY'