View Full Version : Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll
Pellissier
2007-11-29, 12:16
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can't wait, im personally hopin for up to a maximum of 50% flashback and the rest some other interesting events.
Im interested to see what Shana does now that Wilhelmina left.
Will she stay at Yuiji's?
Will Yuiji start learning unrestricted spells?
Nothing more to it than to wait and see:D
I actually thought the first transition from Yuji's training to Margery's flashback was pretty funny this time around.
fight scenes continued to feel more like the better fights in the first season (these ones are way trippier than the Mare and Kasha fights). even if it's not the current Margery, it's fun to see her fighting. Yuri's moth and flame powers were also pretty damn weird. certainly the best fight of the season, even if we knew Margery couldn't actually die. Anyway, chalk up yet another reason for why Margery drinks so much and why most flame hazes are total bastards. This had seemed pointless at first but I think it really did re-enforce who Margery is as a character, and with some good fight scene's inbetween, so well worth it.
Oh, and very pleased with the little development in the last minute or two. maybe they'll have Margery come after Yuji's head instead of Wilhelmina.
next week looks like planning starts for the school festival (horray for Shana's costume from the end of the opening) and you know who from episode 7 shows up. some of you are probably going to be pissed to have another school episode, but still looks like fun.
simply interesting and exciting. can't wait for next battle episode.
yuji's dad back to misaki city
fumina costume as the witch(?) in Oz in seishusai（the school festival of misaki high school)’ｓparade
news from megami magazine
some news claim that pheles coming in ep 13.
no wilhelmina this episode...and she seems not show up in next episode... just do not understand the meaning of let her take break for a while...
if she do not know the color of the seal set by yuji, then how will she interact with margery before pheles come...
and i don't think JC is making a chance for yuji to test his blood sucker on wilhelmina...
Silver flames in yuiji's fuzetsu ?? Is that related with this "keeper" thing (btw I still wait for explanation in the anime about what is a keeper :s) ?
It make me think about the insect tomogara in a knight armor from margery past?
Silver flames in yuiji's fuzetsu ?? Is that related with this "keeper" thing (btw I still wait for explanation in the anime about what is a keeper :s) ?
It make me think about the insect tomogara in a knight armor from margery past?
Yeah I'm a little lost at this too. What was that scene and reaction all about? Anyone know or care to enlighten? It was like a teaser, leaving me with many new questions wanting answers.
minhtam1638
2007-11-29, 16:28
Yeah I'm a little lost at this too. What was that scene and reaction all about? Anyone know or care to enlighten? It was like a teaser, leaving me with many new questions wanting answers.
My mind is not really up to speed right now, but it has been speculated that the Silver Flame is infused in the Reiji Maigo.
Dude, stop picking on the drunken bimbo.
uh...
anyway,
Yeah I'm a little lost at this too. What was that scene and reaction all about? Anyone know or care to enlighten? It was like a teaser, leaving me with many new questions wanting answers.
at least for why Shana reacted the way she did:
right off the bat, torches aren't supposed to have any flame color other than that light blue, only Tomogara are supposed to have different colors for their flames.
Second, flame color is pretty much like a fingerprint for Tomogara, no two are exactly alike (at least as far as we can tell). This is especially true for such an odd color like silver. And Shana knows Margery's single goal in life is finding a Tomogara called Silver from episode 8 in season 1, and for someone like Margery anyone can figure out that means she wants to kill said Tomogara. Something is very clearly wrong with Yuji/Reiji Maigo if Yuji is not only generating a flame color like a Tomogara, but a flame color of a Tomogara Margery wants to kill.
Is it me or does Yuiji seem to be/have everything? From Reiji Maigo, to keeper, to *****, what else is next?
Is it me or does Yuiji seem to be/have everything? From Reiji Maigo, to keeper, to *****, what else is next?
well, what's to say they're not all related? the keeper at very least is on the Reiji Maigo, not Yuji.
Deathkillz
2007-11-29, 18:41
best ep for this series (thankgod ^^)
whaaaa soo sad that he died...and what a way to go - margery didnt show any hesitation to shoot him head on in order to get metamorph...but really i can feel her inner pain ;__;
deadly pincer move...
yuri is the man! moth power!? lawl that is too funny XD but how the heck does that connect with his main power? dont tell me he burn those moths to create energy XD
the ending made my jaw drop...yet the preview seems less promising ;__;
serenade_beta
2007-11-29, 20:34
Wow, that was good! One main reason is because there was so much action!
As I expected, Yuri died. Too bad, huh...
Anna Berg proved two things:
1. His "ranting movement" sucks...
2. He sucks... All he did was fly around while emitting smoke and shot little flame balls before being turned to scrap...
Where did all of those other Denizens go? The ones with Anna Berg at the end of the previous episode? :confused:
Silver flames... Heh, this will be interesting.
Preview - Yuuji's father returns; I'm going to assume the class is going to have to teach Fumina what the festival is about
minhtam1638
2007-11-29, 20:40
Yes! I can't wait to see how Yuji's father will react upon Shana's presence.
Xellos-_^
2007-11-29, 20:45
Yes! I can't wait to see how Yuji's father will react upon Shana's presence.
And to Yoshida and Konoe.
His response would outta boy, keep up the good work.:p:heh::D
How could any man not be proud that his son is attracting such a harem.
minhtam1638
2007-11-29, 22:35
And to Yoshida and Konoe.
His response would outta boy, keep up the good work.:p:heh::D
How could any man not be proud that his son is attracting such a harem.
I think Kazumi and Fumina's cases will stay unknown to the father, since those two should be a school related issue. Shana, however, is a different story. (They sleep in the same room, dammit!)
DeotoxSlayer
2007-11-29, 22:51
I think Kazumi and Fumina's cases will stay unknown to the father, since those two should be a school related issue. Shana, however, is a different story. (They sleep in the same room, dammit!)
not nymore they don't....
not nymore they don't....
ah, but you can't prove that they haven't been since Wilhelmina left last week.
teachopvutru
2007-11-30, 00:50
They sleep in the same room, dammit!
Imagine if some people finds that out. Actually, it'd be more interesting to see that when they haven't already knew their "Flame Haze and Torch" relationship.
Kang Seung Jae
2007-11-30, 01:39
Nothing that appeals to me in this episode.... Except the silver flames.
Next Episode: YES! PAPA'S HERE!
Kyuusaisha
2007-11-30, 09:29
Silver flames fap fap fap. I think this episode was great just because of that and I didn't care much for Yuri so the parts with him doing whatever he was doing was shit, but still a great episode
Kinny Riddle
2007-11-30, 13:13
Finally some story. (Fumina's absence certainly helps. Though I must emphasize I do not hate Hecate at all, but inserting her into Yuji's harem for more than one episode is too much. )
First, the flashback. Margery survived her first skirmish Sydonay thanks to Yuri's sacrifice and Margery's "selfish" desire to live since she wanted to get her revenge on "Silver". Margery still lived with the guilt that her selfishness caused Yuri his life.
Things are beginning to make sense now. Rami's reasons for not revealing to Margery about "Silver's" wherabouts is now clear, not that he wants to help "Silver", but he is very concerned about the safety of someone nearby if he told her there and then what "Silver" has become and where he is right now. (Though it's becoming obvious, I'll not name who that "someone" is, just to be safe. )
serenade_beta
2007-11-30, 18:37
The Man Who Came Back
Yuuji's training had reached the level where he would try to construct an unrestricted method. After many failures, Yuuji had managed to create a Seal. But there were no words of congratulations from Alastor or Shana. That was because they could not take their eyes off of the Seal Yuuji had put up, which was covered in silver flames.
There are three weeks left before the school festival. Yuuji's class is making their final decisions on what to give out, and choosing the representatives for the costume parade, which would stretch out to the area's shopping district.
Not only were Shana and Kazumi chosen, but Fumina and Yuuji were chosen as well to be participants.
And then, Shana noticed the suspicious shadow one evening. The shadow was not a "Denizen", but it was tailing the girls. Shana mercilessly attacks the shadow.
http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/10_01.jpg - La, la, la~
http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/10_02.jpg - Being stalked... -_-
No point in calling the shadow suspicious anymore... Most people already know who it is...
minhtam1638
2007-12-01, 00:54
The Man Who Came Back
Yuuji's training had reached the level where he would try to construct an unrestricted method. After many failures, Yuuji had managed to create a Seal. But there were no words of congratulations from Alastor or Shana. That was because they could not take their eyes off of the Seal Yuuji had put up, which was covered in silver flames.
There are three weeks left before the school festival. Yuuji's class is making their final decisions on what to give out, and choosing the representatives for the costume parade, which would stretch out to the area's shopping district.
Not only were Shana and Kazumi chosen, but Fumina and Yuuji were chosen as well to be participants.
And then, Shana noticed the suspicious shadow one evening. The shadow was not a "Denizen", but it was tailing the girls. Shana mercilessly attacks the shadow.
http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/10_01.jpg - La, la, la~
http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/10_02.jpg - Being stalked... -_-
No point in calling the shadow suspicious anymore... Most people already know who it is...
Uh... do you mind telling me? Unless it's Yuji's father...
serenade_beta
2007-12-01, 01:00
Uh... do you mind telling me? Unless it's Yuji's father...
From what people say and the title, Yeah, it seems to be Yuuji's father.
It'd be an amusing surprise otherwise.
Awesome ep, a solid 9 in my book.
Why all the spoiler entries? We're in an episode thread here, spoiler tags are not necessary for whatever happens in this ep.
Alot of action, and then 2 excellently delivered gut punches - one expected (Yuri's death), one shocking (Yuji's fuzetsu). That's what I call impact.
Great ep!
PS: And a total bitch to encode :( ... unfreezable interlacing everywhere.
alvinkhorfire
2007-12-01, 18:09
Why all the spoiler entries? We're in an episode thread here, spoiler tags are not necessary for whatever happens in this ep.
Most of them have not watched this episode because they are waiting for English sub (maybe). For that, those who have seen the raw and post at here don't spoil those who have not seen the episode but like to have a sneak peek at here. Am I right?
teachopvutru
2007-12-01, 18:15
Most of them have not watched this episode because they are waiting for English sub (maybe). For that, those who have seen the raw and post at here don't spoil those who have not seen the episode but like to have a sneak peek at here. Am I right?
I probably shouldn't put myself into the position of those who already watch the episode but yes, you're correct. And the person who likes to take the sneak peek is, for example, me, although I look at all the spoilers anyway, lol. :heh:
alvinkhorfire
2007-12-01, 19:26
I probably shouldn't put myself into the position of those who already watch the episode but yes, you're correct. And the person who likes to take the sneak peek is, for example, me, although I look at all the spoilers anyway, lol. :heh:
I do understand that subbing takes some time and I can't complain on it since it is free. But, it is kind of frustrating since when other people have seen the episode, some of us still have not yet seen it. What to do? Be patient is all I can do now.
It is too haste for Yuri to attack Sydonay in the end which caused his death. His energy is running low and he should have only supported Marjorie to attack Sydonay, rather than going all out on Sydonay. It is supposed to be his first major battle, but it is sadly his last.
Things are beginning to make sense now. Rami's reasons for not revealing to Margery about "Silver's" wherabouts is now clear, not that he wants to help "Silver", but he is very concerned about the safety of someone nearby if he told her there and then what "Silver" has become and where he is right now. (Though it's becoming obvious, I'll not name who that "someone" is, just to be safe. )
How does Rammie realize about someone nearby is connected to Silver whereas Shana and Marjorie don't know a thing about it?
It was not shown on how to cast a Fuzetsu. I can only see that Yuji is concentrating and yells Fuzetsu.
kimchipride
2007-12-01, 20:30
I seemed to have forgotten that Shakugan no Shana was about torches and that Yuuji was a torch that has already died.
Masanori Ota
2007-12-01, 21:43
How does Rammie realize about someone nearby is connected to Silver whereas Shana and Marjorie don't know a thing about it?
It was not shown on how to cast a Fuzetsu. I can only see that Yuji is concentrating and yells Fuzetsu.
Rammie/Rami/Lamies/Lami has been around for quite some time. He might have known that Silver had something to do with the Reiji Maigo, or he might just have an innate ability to see the color of flames automatically due to experiance/the amount of PoE he's accumulated, etc..
Also, that's how everyone appears to cast Fuzetsu. Would you like a metaphysics major to explain how to cast it or something?
kimchipride
2007-12-01, 22:02
GAWD!
I really want this episode today
Please subbers
hayaku
Hai hai. It's out, it's out.
That Flame Haze who runs the bar... wasn't Prohibition on alcohol being enforced during that time of events in Margery's past?
Klashikari
2007-12-02, 12:40
Exactly, the Prohibition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition) era around 1920 IIRC.
It is definitely a hint how flamehazes are quite above the laws of humans etc.
KaneDragon
2007-12-02, 12:49
Haha, police bust in, and the Indian guy starts messing with their heads Dio-style. :p
Great episode. It was clear from the get-go that Yuri was Too Good For This Sinful Earth (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooGoodForThisSinfulEarth), but he did a surprising amount of damage. He was so close... It seemed like Meta would have run away from Margery if Yuri hadn't interfered, Margery's thoughts to the contrary.
On an unrelated note, Margery's odd spells amuse me again.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/5725/snapshot20071202121459ra4.th.jpg (http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20071202121459ra4.jpg)
Running through my head at the time was:
Anna Berg: This is--
Meta: Bad poetry, run!
*explosions*
70
00:07:38,130 --> 00:07:40,310
69,0,Default,Mar,0000,0000,0000,,Punch and Judy fought for a pie, {http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/childrens-songs/Punch_and_Judy_fought_for_a_pie.htm}
Well, law enforcement was busy getting corrupted by bribes from bootleggers and the mafia gangs so perhaps the 1920's NYPD turned a blind eye on that bar.
Hmm, a Flame Haze mafia group...
Anyway, even if Margery was asleep, wouldn't she or Marcosius have detected Yuji activating his Fuzetsu?
Those silver flames must've surprised Alastor and Shana. An omen of sorts?
FlareKnight
2007-12-02, 13:15
Well certainly as expected Yuri bit it in the episode. Though I was impressed how well he did for his first fight if only he had bowed out a little earlier. Go Moth power! Not only do you take care of Tomogara, but you manage to handle the bug problem as well :).
Definitely a rough way to go. Slashed then blasted with huge attacks on both sides. But no doubt it sits heavily on Margery. She took the route that best guaranteed her survival. Had a chance to win the fight though it was a gamble, but her desire to get that Silver over ruled over everything else.
For now seems the Satou becoming a Flame Haze will be dropped. Though hard to say if it will be revisited down the road. But at least on the serious side it seems what's going on with Yuji will be prevalent. The relation of Silver to Yuji is now going to be something I'll be wondering about. God help the guy if Margery ever sees him do that.
For now it's back to class...
lua thien
2007-12-02, 13:27
Perhaps Yuri deep down wanted a way out of being a Flame Haze and what better way to go out than getting vaporized on the spot? It might appeared that he still held strong to his conviction in protecting humans. I wonder if Valac escaped back into the Guze after Yuri was killed.
There was a saying of sorts that went something like this: "Those who walk the path of vengeance will surely lose the light of virtue." Margery already has a lot of blood on her hands due to her pursuing the Silver. I wonder how many other enemies will be going after her head.
Major1138
2007-12-02, 13:57
Exactly, the Prohibition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition) era around 1920 IIRC.
It is definitely a hint how flamehazes are quite above the laws of humans etc.
Well you have to remember that prohibition didn't exactly stop people from drinking - all it did was make people set up secret bars. It's nothing particularly surprising.
Terrestrial Dream
2007-12-02, 15:13
Well you have to remember that prohibition didn't exactly stop people from drinking - all it did was make people set up secret bars. It's nothing particularly surprising. And as a result of prohibition supposedly more people started to drink. Good episode overall, it was expected for that Yuri kid to die, but still got to feel bad for the way he died. Also Yuji's fuzetsu at the end seems interesting, seems to be related with silver.
Anh_Minh
2007-12-02, 16:38
Not very important question: What happened to Valac? Did she just lose a Flame Haze, or did she die along with Yuri?
More importantly: what's the connection between Yuji and Silver? Can a Tomogara become a Torch? Without even knowing?
Good episode. Too bad Yuri died, but I liked the last line of him and Valac. I believe Valac didnt die, just returned back to Guze.
And I liked how Yuji managed to cast a Fuzetsu, it kinda looked cool how the grass moved, the music stopped and suddenly switched to a dramatc one with silver flames shooting of the ground.
More importantly: what's the connection between Yuji and Silver? Can a Tomogara become a Torch? Without even knowing?
I don't think he is Silver but silver must have done something with the reiji maigo, maybe he put a part of him inside :confused:
by the way if someone could explain me what is this "keeper" thing it would be great :heh:
alvinkhorfire
2007-12-02, 18:52
Fine, Marjorie don't want to risk her life fighting Sydonay, so she should just take Yuri out of there and escape, even though Yuri will disagree with her idea. That way, Yuri will survive and will not be killed.
About Satou becoming a Flame Haze, it is being dropped by now as it seems. But, it should have some effect on the story. If not, why bother mentioning it? We still don't know whether Satou still want to help Marjorie to fight Silver. It was only shown that he is still deep in his thoughts. Hopefully, he is given bigger role in the future.
I wonder whether Valac is still available for contact. Satou can have a contact with Valac to become a Flame Haze. Imagine, Satou as a flame Haze fighting alongside Marjorie. Just my thoughts.
awww, only one episode and then Yuri's gone! but it's great to see that a flame haze can live by reasons other than killing Tomogara. I was quite surprised that he didn't feel betrayed when Margery didn't save him but threw in another fireball. Yuri's definitely a very interesting character with heaps of potential.. if only he wasn't killed so early!
FlareKnight
2007-12-02, 19:52
No matter the result Yuri really was a good guy who followed his beliefs until the end. Margery's own beliefs lead to that result as well. She can't back out from a fight. Yuri gave an option for the battle to be a draw and Metamorphosis could escape. Mergery didn't give up on the fight the other guy just took an advantage to escape.
Do hope that the Satou becoming a Flame Haze situation is just put off for a while and not dropped entirely. Don't think he's the type to give up entirely after hearing that story. At the very least he has a lot to think about. Would be interesting if Valac turned up down the road. I'm sure it's not the first time Valac has lost a Flame Haze.
Aquifina
2007-12-02, 20:00
I gave it a 10, even though it isn't really "perfect." But compared to the slow start, this was a great ep--it gave both strong backstory Margery, explained better the attitudes of Flame Haze, and most of all, it gave real plot advancement with the end.
It's unlike Margery to shed tears in her sleep at the end. Makes her a bit too human for a Flame Haze of her caliber.
It's unlike Margery to shed tears in her sleep at the end. Makes her a bit too human for a Flame Haze of her caliber.
well, that's a little unfair.
Wilhelmina has a weakness for Shana, otherwise she'd still be trying to Kill Yuji right now, Shana has a weakness for Yuji, and so on. Flame hazes are far from inhuman.
Perhaps I was a bit unfair.
It's just that Margery seems to be the type to kill those who get caught in the crossfire of her vengeance. She's going after the Silver and won't hesitate to sacrifice or kill anyone that is unfortunate enough to wander onto her path. Usually, people like that don't shed tears on how many lives they've taken in the pursuit of revenge and they don't feel guilty about it either.
(Margery killed Yuri to survive for another day and, once she falls alseep after telling the story, she's shedding tears?)
bmkharuhiism
2007-12-02, 21:42
Great episode. It's kinda sad to see Yuri killed after appearing in only two episodes. He was a really great character and with just his actions in this one episode showed how brave he is. It nice to see a Flame Haze who stands by his own beliefs and who isn't completely obsessed with killing denizens.
I don't know if it's been asked (and if has been, I'm sorry), but does Margery wear glasses because of Yuri? I know she's not wearing Yuri's glasses, but I kind of thought that maybe since she didn't wear glasses in the past that she wears the glasses in the present as a reminder of Yuri. Am I wrong?
I don't know if it's been asked (and if has been, I'm sorry), but does Margery wear glasses because of Yuri? I know she's not wearing Yuri's glasses, but I kind of thought that maybe since she didn't wear glasses in the past that she wears the glasses in the present as a reminder of Yuri. Am I wrong?
doubt you're ever going to hear about it again. feel free to believe it if you'd like. :rolleyes:
Aquifina
2007-12-02, 21:59
Great episode. It's kinda sad to see Yuri killed after appearing in only two episodes. He was a really great character and with just his actions in this one episode showed how brave he is. It nice to see a Flame Haze who stands by his own beliefs and who isn't completely obsessed with killing denizens.
I don't know if it's been asked (and if has been, I'm sorry), but does Margery wear glasses because of Yuri? I know she's not wearing Yuri's glasses, but I kind of thought that maybe since she didn't wear glasses in the past that she wears the glasses in the present as a reminder of Yuri. Am I wrong?
Maybe the novels make it more clear (I wouldn't know), but my assumption is that Margery wears glasses in memory of Yuri. It's clear that his sacrifice affected her, although I'm pretty sure she would do the same thing again.
Margery is a deeply ambiguous character; capable, and not completely unfeeling, but as Satou realized, she isn't really admirable in any conventional sense of the term. Her anger at Silver seems to be focused entirely on being deprived of the chance of taking revenge herself on whatever enemies were involved; presumably she had a real grudge to work out, but transferring her animosity in such a single-minded way to Silver seems, how should I put it?, a bit much.
The point I took from the story she told her young disciples was that she wasn't really all that admirable, and if they followed her, she'd sacrifice them, if necessary, just as she had done so with Yuri. I actually am not entirely sure she would do the exact same thing with her two amigos, but who knows, really?
holyman282
2007-12-02, 22:09
Wow this was surprisingly a good ep considering I don't really like Margery Daw that much. I don't watch Shana mainly for the action but I can understand why some would. The fight scenes were amazing this ep.
Perhaps I was a bit unfair.
It's just that Margery seems to be the type to kill those who get caught in the crossfire of her vengeance. She's going after the Silver and won't hesitate to sacrifice or kill anyone that is unfortunate enough to wander onto her path. Usually, people like that don't shed tears on how many lives they've taken in the pursuit of revenge and they don't feel guilty about it either.
I think it's in character for Margery Daw to show some emotions, you're taking things on face value too much to consider that Margery didn't feel anything after he killed Yuri. I'm almost certain that she regretted her actions, it's just that finding and killing Silver has become so much of an obsession, that she'll do anything to kill him.
(Margery killed Yuri to survive for another day and, once she falls alseep after telling the story, she's shedding tears?)
Well considering that Margery Daw probably told the story in order to protect Satou, in order to stop him from being a Flame Haze. I mean why else did you think she decided to tell that story? She's warning him that if he becomes a Flame Haze and works with her, she won't hesitate to kill him in order to survive and obviously she doesn't want to choose between that.
Seriously don't take actions on face value, Shakugan no Shana is a good anime because every character has a level of depth.
It's interesting also that we learned more about Margery's history with Silver. From season 1 I always thought that Silver killed people special to her, but it appears that Silver killed the people Margery wanted to kill? So now she wants to kill him who killed the people she wanted to kill so that it'll feel like she killed the people she wanted to kill? (very confusing..):twitch:
Terrestrial Dream
2007-12-02, 23:00
It's interesting also that we learned more about Margery's history with Silver. From season 1 I always thought that Silver killed people special to her, but it appears that Silver killed the people Margery wanted to kill? So now she wants to kill him who killed the people she wanted to kill so that it'll feel like she killed the people she wanted to kill? (very confusing..):twitch: Indeed that was interesting, though didn't she say that she wanted to kill Silver because he basically took away everything from her ? Such as her reason to live and I am just guessing is that her reason to live was to kill those people and she wants to kill Silver out of revenge.
9. Getting back to what made season 1 so great is really good.
And yay! Yuji can finally cast a Fuzetsu, even though they've been talking about it all season!
s[H]sIkuA
2007-12-02, 23:58
Next episode : "Someone who returns home" ? Lol
Yuuji's dad?
Great episode, we got to know a lot of Margery and also a lot of fighting, I was like lol'ed in the ep8 , a flashback inside a flashback
And the Fuzetsu part definitely makes me can't wait for the next episode.
kimchipride
2007-12-03, 01:00
It wasn't bad! 8/10
Now we know where her glasses are from as well
Good animation quality
and the ending when Yuuji casts ______, it was nicely executed.
plzd0ntkeelme
2007-12-03, 01:03
Great ep, less talk more actions.
Margerie is actually more powerful than i thought. Despite the injury, she could still give a fair fight against Sydonay, compared to Yuri who can't block Sydonay's attack at all. If Yuri could just counter it a little bit, i'm sure Sydonay will be dead right there with Margery could still unleash fireball and all. The one who killed Yuri is not Margerie, but Sydonay. If she did not unleash another fireball to block Sydonay's, the city could be leveled and millions turn into torches. I'm sure that action is what Yuri preferred as well.
Too bad Yuri died in his first battle. He died for a good cause, tho'. By saving Margery, he helped preserving one of the only adult women in this series lmao Without her, this series will have ridiculous unfair amount of loli. Although, instead of at the least providing us fanservice, she just gets drunk all day.
grey_moon
2007-12-03, 03:59
I really enjoyed this epi. I felt it a shame that Yuri bumped into Margery instead of... errr actually I can't really think which Flame Haze we have met would have been able to help him grow, instead of getting burnt up like a moth to flame.
This really does highlight the issue that the Flame Hazes suffer from. It been stated that they fight alone, but so far we have seen quite a lot of collaboration, but if they are not used to it, then they must trample on each others toes a lot when they are forced to work together. Balle Masque shows that the evil ones are quite capable of working together (well apart from the secret little plans).
Yuji's silver flames are pretty interesting for the Margery element, but also raises the question "what the Dango is he?". General categorisation is he is a torch or a mistes. But they burn out, and Yuji doesn't as he get replenished every night. He has the capacity of a Crimson Lord and now is able to cast spells. Crimson lords from what I gather need a human host to function and Yuji doesn't so does that make him more like a tomogara?
For example lets say that black hole boy gets down with all this casting stuff and gets good at it. Then lets say he looses the Reiji Maigo. His existence is huge so he won't burn out quickly, so what is to stop him from using a unrestricted spell, or a hougu from devouring the existence of others? In essence he would be a tomogara.... Of course I haven't taken into account his personality would most probably stop him from taken such action.
minhtam1638
2007-12-03, 04:31
I really enjoyed this epi. I felt it a shame that Yuri bumped into Margery instead of... errr actually I can't really think which Flame Haze we have met would have been able to help him grow, instead of getting burnt up like a moth to flame.
In other words, you can say that a flame haze who is initially soft is destined to be burned. (I say "initially" because Shana is just about close to becoming a softie herself.)
This really does highlight the issue that the Flame Hazes suffer from. It been stated that they fight alone, but so far we have seen quite a lot of collaboration, but if they are not used to it, then they must trample on each others toes a lot when they are forced to work together. Balle Masque shows that the evil ones are quite capable of working together (well apart from the secret little plans).
It will be interesting to see how the 3-haze cell of Shana/Margery/Wilhelmina will work collaboratively now that they are living in the same city, as more denizens are probably on the way.
Yuji's silver flames are pretty interesting for the Margery element, but also raises the question "what the Dango is he?". General categorisation is he is a torch or a mistes. But they burn out, and Yuji doesn't as he get replenished every night. He has the capacity of a Crimson Lord and now is able to cast spells. Crimson lords from what I gather need a human host to function and Yuji doesn't so does that make him more like a tomogara?
For example lets say that black hole boy gets down with all this casting stuff and gets good at it. Then lets say he looses the Reiji Maigo. His existence is huge so he won't burn out quickly, so what is to stop him from using a unrestricted spell, or a hougu from devouring the existence of others? In essence he would be a tomogara.... Of course I haven't taken into account his personality would most probably stop him from taken such action.
Points for the Dango. I'm using it from now on.
You make a good point on Yuji being categorized as a Tomogara. I believe that in the flame haze world, as Yuji has the most coveted treasure in all of the Crimson World, he needs a category of his own.
By definition of losing the Reiji Maigo, I believe you mean it gets taken away. If that is such, he may as well be categorized as a tomogara. However, do remember that as he loses PoE, he loses functions, such as memory and personality, and the fact that no one will be able to remember that he even existed. Then again, who besides the Flame Haze will remember the mayonnaise mascot?
As a side note, the aura's color is always related to a crimson denizen or crimsom lord. A torch aura shouldnt have any color unlike Yuuji`s one. See the expresions of Shana and Alastor: they are speechless to see that aura.
With his current power level (even untrained) Yuuji could be considerated a crimson lord since even if he lacked the Reiji Maigo he would never feed on others to keep living. He probably would end as Alastor and Marchosias becoming the power source of another Flame Haze, and help to keep the world´s balance.
But currently now due to his unlimited POE supply each midnight has the potential of becoming one of the most powerful beings of this world (even the most powerful beings can run out of power and need time to recover, Yuuji only need 1 day to be fully recovered again)
Chaos2Frozen
2007-12-03, 08:30
Excellent episode :D The action was really a hell lot better than anything before :nod:
I was already spoiled about Yuri's fate so that didn't surprise me, though I already had my suspicions since last week.
So the real shocker to me has to be Yuji's silver flame, no way I could have seen it coming :eek:
P.S - I wonder what Yuji's dad is like :D
grey_moon
2007-12-03, 08:46
But currently now due to his unlimited POE supply each midnight has the potential of becoming one of the most powerful beings of this world (even the most powerful beings can run out of power and need time to recover, Yuuji only need 1 day to be fully recovered again)
That is a great point you brought up. I can imagine what a great trap it would be. If they can prep an attack, they could send Yuji in minutes before midnight and he just farts out a massive Crimson Lord suicide level attack hopefully obliterating the opposition and then ding dong reset! Any survivors would then be shocked to find themselves still facing a fully charged Yuji!
You make a good point on Yuji being categorized as a Tomogara. I believe that in the flame haze world, as Yuji has the most coveted treasure in all of the Crimson World, he needs a category of his own.
Well, I have been imagining Yuji's category to be "Reiji Maigo" anyways, because, as mintam stated, he is THE most special treasure there is, especially now since he can somewhat fight and cast a Fuzestu.
So, Shana got her name from her sword, and Yuji got his category from his hougu. Talk about people being reduced to their possesions :heh:
As far as I can tell, they seem to be mooting the point brought up (I think only in the anime) in season 1 where "Flame Haze can't cooperate with each other. When they meet, they'll only end up fighting with each other"...
I certainly don't remember the line in the Manga nor the Movie, and Im halfway through the Novel Vol 1 and didn't see anything like that.
minhtam1638
2007-12-03, 11:35
As far as I can tell, they seem to be mooting the point brought up (I think only in the anime) in season 1 where "Flame Haze can't cooperate with each other. When they meet, they'll only end up fighting with each other"...
I certainly don't remember the line in the Manga nor the Movie, and Im halfway through the Novel Vol 1 and didn't see anything like that.
As far as I'm interpreting it, I don't see anything like that in the novels either, so by an anime point of view, I'm going to state that since Wilhelmina left Shana, she was either (a) isolated from the rest of the Flame Haze or (b) had bad experiences with various flame hazes the same type as Margery. As far as I can remember, it was Shana who said it in episode 4.
As far as I'm interpreting it, I don't see anything like that in the novels either, so by an anime point of view, I'm going to state that since Wilhelmina left Shana, she was either (a) isolated from the rest of the Flame Haze or (b) had bad experiences with various flame hazes the same type as Margery. As far as I can remember, it was Shana who said it in episode 4.
Lamies says in novel 2, page 111: "Battles between Flame Hazes are not that unusual."
And actually neither Shana nor Alastor said something drastic like "Can't cooperate with each other.". The conversation goes something like this:
Shana: "There are other Flame Haze, but we are not like team mates."
Alastor: "There are times when Flame Hazes fight each other."
I guess this was just to explain that the Shana/Margery fight was not THAT big of a deal, so I don't really see a problem with Shana/Margery/Wilhelmina more or less cooperating at the moment.
NOOOO YURI! :heh: oh well he wasn't really that important anyways
good thing about this episode was the silver
The man who returned home- can it be Khamsim???? probably not, i really want him back
Whitemoon648
2007-12-03, 17:51
NOOOO YURI! :heh: oh well he wasn't really that important anyways
good thing about this episode was the silver
The man who returned home- can it be Khamsim???? probably not, i really want him back
LOL. It cant be Khamsim. Didnt you see how fast he was running from the preview? Khamsim was a slowpoke.
lua thien
2007-12-03, 19:35
The flashback of Margery's past had flames burning some residence she was in or around. But in the season 1 at episode 8, that same flashback of the aftermath had more blood than burned ruins. The stairs of that house, surprisingly white and not touched by fire, were only stained in blood. Perhaps a mistake of sorts?
The flashback of Margery's past had flames burning some residence she was in or around. But in the season 1 at episode 8, that same flashback of the aftermath had more blood than burned ruins. The stairs of that house, surprisingly white and not touched by fire, were only stained in blood. Perhaps a mistake of sorts?
Marchosias put out the fire before it reached the stairs. there, problem solved. :eyespin:
Master Chibi
2007-12-04, 02:19
What a twist.
Finally things get interesting.
teachopvutru
2007-12-04, 02:24
What a twist.
Finally things get interesting.
From the Preview, it looks like you'll get disappointed next episode though. After all, the Konoe Fumina that you love so much will be there. :p
Master Chibi
2007-12-04, 03:18
From the Preview, it looks like you'll get disappointed next episode though. After all, the Konoe Fumina that you love so much will be there. :p
Go figure.
I never look at previews, so I had no idea.
Ugh. It's like totally why did they even bother wasting four episodes on that garbage to begin with?
Drop Konoe off at a daycare center with a bagged lunch and be done with it.
tripperazn
2007-12-04, 03:28
Go figure.
I never look at previews, so I had no idea.
Ugh. It's like totally why did they even bother wasting four episodes on that garbage to begin with?
Drop Konoe off at a daycare center with a bagged lunch and be done with it.
Yeah, seriously, if only Shana tripped a little in the Fuuzetsu and sliced her up. At least as a torch we would know her presence is only temporary >.<**
There was some pretty nice Shana development from it though...she's a lot more deredere now. She even encouraged Yuuji in training O.o That was something I thought I'd never see.
minhtam1638
2007-12-04, 04:06
Yeah, seriously, if only Shana tripped a little in the Fuuzetsu and sliced her up. At least as a torch we would know her presence is only temporary >.<**
There was some pretty nice Shana development from it though...she's a lot more deredere now. She even encouraged Yuuji in training O.o That was something I thought I'd never see.
Oh, so Shana went from Louise to Nagi in like four days. That's nice to hear.
HayashiTakara
2007-12-04, 04:07
This should happen to Konoe...
Yuji is training to do his fuzetsu better, Konoe walks by and sees him, she decides to run up and talk to him. Her calling out to him makes him loses his attention and causes his life force to lose stability and as he looks at her, his life force becomes refocused on her and her head explodes. The End. XD
Ok, back on track... I hope Yuji takes full advantage of "Silvers" powers. And becomes a god, with the eternal loli Shana by his side. That is my dream, lol
From the Preview, it looks like you'll get disappointed next episode though. After all, the Konoe Fumina that you love so much will be there. :p
Gah, costume festival my ass... hopefully, the development will include more than a few minutes, while the rest is filled with Fumina :mad:
Gah, costume festival my ass... hopefully, the development will include more than a few minutes, while the rest is filled with Fumina :mad:
It will be a great episode if and when she's exposed (provided there's something to expose of course) and Shana kicks her ass (which will hopefully happen even if she isn't linked to Hecate...).
I don't really understand the whole Silver thing. I don't think I have been concentrating very much D;
Could someone explain please?
Either way, it's interesting. As a guess, is Silver like.. the guy Margery was fighting against in the past or something. I really liked the action in this episode, it's about time we got some fights.
DazarGaidin
2007-12-04, 08:06
Margery life is dedicated to killing a tomogora that uses silver flames, the guy int he suit of armor with the million eyeballs.
Great episode with a lot of good fighting and information too.
Couple things about earlier posts:
Re Margery tears: Margery showing those underlying feelings shouldn't come as a surprise at this point. In season one a large part of her story was how she put on a facade of not really needing or caring about her two roommates there, but when it came to it she was worried about them/wanted to protect them too (just like the kid eh?). This just shows even more depth into why she puts on that facade and how in the end she can't help but feel that way. I don't think she could deny she cares about them anymore, but shes kinda asking them to not put her further in that position, especially if it means them vs her revenge.
I don't think he is going to let it drop though, he never said he would and i think he might be willing to take the risk.
The kids special ability there at the end was a energy cocoon, that is how it is related to moths i guess.
The fog guy was kinda weak, that is probably WHY he hired syd as a body guard, it would be kinda lame to have him real strong and then getting someone else to protect him (tho you see this all the time for some reason... )
Re flame haze cooperating: I think that its important to remember that flame haze maintain balance, so its probably unbalancing to have too many in one place for a long period of time. The instance with ball masque might have created an exception (or yujis existence rather) as it is severely unbalancing (baddies flock there so haze need to counter). But i think in general, flame haze work alone where they are needed to balance things out, and people that work alone get used to it.
KaneDragon
2007-12-04, 09:12
I don't really understand the whole Silver thing. I don't think I have been concentrating very much D;
Could someone explain please?
Either way, it's interesting. As a guess, is Silver like.. the guy Margery was fighting against in the past or something. I really liked the action in this episode, it's about time we got some fights.
If I recall correctly, Silver was that giant suit of armor guy who messed up Margery's life before Margery became a flame haze, and how she wants to kill him.
...And apparently, Yuji now has Silver's mojo.:uhoh:
grey_moon
2007-12-04, 12:06
Maybe silver senior is going to not like someone stealing his mojo and come after Yuji and that gives Margery a chance for revenge.
Maybe silver senior is going to not like someone stealing his mojo and come after Yuji and that gives Margery a chance for revenge.
does Silver even have a personality necessary for an ego?
seemed like he was just a bunch of freaky red eyes and insect legs under the armor...
I wonder ,prior to Margery first meeting the Silver, what her occupation was at the time?
Anh_Minh
2007-12-04, 14:21
Re flame haze cooperating: I think that its important to remember that flame haze maintain balance, so its probably unbalancing to have too many in one place for a long period of time. The instance with ball masque might have created an exception (or yujis existence rather) as it is severely unbalancing (baddies flock there so haze need to counter). But i think in general, flame haze work alone where they are needed to balance things out, and people that work alone get used to it.
I think it may just be a personality thing. The Crimson Lords who contract Flame Haze are basically people who decided to go to all the trouble of going to Earth to hunt down their own kinds.
They each have their reasons for doing it. Alastor does it out of sense of righteousness, Marcosius because he likes to fight. I don't think he much cares about balance, beyond not eating people himself.
And the Crimson world seems pretty anarchic. They do stuff because they can, and who's going to do anything about it? So it's not like a police action. They just decide to kill their own kind, for their own reasons.
So, how much would it take for a Crimson Lord with a Flame Haze to decide that another Crimson Lord with a Flame Haze is a bad guy that has to die?
Grimkill7
2007-12-04, 15:36
Whew, FINALLY this interesting boring flashback arc is over and now we can get back to the irrelevant cute and adorable Konoe. THANK GOD. I was worried there for a second. :rolleyes:
KaneDragon
2007-12-04, 16:52
Maybe silver senior is going to not like someone stealing his mojo and come after Yuji and that gives Margery a chance for revenge.
Or maybe Silver got sucked into the Raging Mango? That would be... anticlimactic. Or maybe Silver is like a Transformer, and is the Raging Mango's true identity! Yuji having a robot transformation would be pretty... interesting... :uhoh::p
Eisdrache
2007-12-04, 16:55
Most (Not all) of you gave those two episodes high ratings because there was some "action" in it. And 95% already start complaining how boring the next episodes will be etc etc. Please remember that Shana was NEVER an action series. Some fights are not a reason to go crazy.
I see the same people complaining in threads after almost every episode how boring/slow/irrelevant it was. Obviously its not your genre and therefore I recommend dropping this series instead of ranting here.
Now back to OnTopic:
They sure know how to come up with some unexpected events. Yuji being possibly related with Silver was quite a surprise. The flash back was nice as well, Yuri being able to take out a Tomogara proves how much skill he has. Too bad he died so fast. Someone also mentioned in the previous thread that Anna Berg wanted to profit from technological advance, leading into war. Huge amounts of existence could be consumed in a war without anyone noticing. Dont remember the name but I guess he/she was right about that.
serenade_beta
2007-12-04, 17:27
Yeah, seriously, if only Shana tripped a little in the Fuuzetsu and sliced her up. At least as a torch we would know her presence is only temporary >.<**
Well, if that happened, the stupid idiot called Yuuji would probably go "use my existence to restore her" like he did in the first season, at school, after Friagne's attack.
Voila, Fumina recovers and continues to live.
Most (Not all) of you gave those two episodes high ratings because there was some "action" in it. And 95% already start complaining how boring the next episodes will be etc etc. Please remember that Shana was NEVER an action series. Some fights are not a reason to go crazy.
It was also never the poor excuse of a continuation that the season has been feeding us thus far. I don't know about others, but it is not the action i necessarily liked (though there is nothing bad about liking that either), but the fact that something actually relevant with a semblance of actually being relatively important (even if only for character background) happened.
The whole Konoe arc is basically the same thing over and over and over again, not to mention it rides on continuity inconsistencies and a whopping plothole regarding to season 1 to exist in the first place. (and a good measure of formerly not present idiocy cluelessness on Yuji's side) There is a difference between being slow paced and seemingly pointless, and the whole Konoe arc is much closer to the later. And while Shana was not a pure action series (though actually some people are trying to push this claim too far), it was never a crappy highschool romance flick either. Everything important this show was built upon has become nothing more than a trivial background decoration and nearly forgotten.
Thats why i at least like the last two episodes - they resemble what Shakugan no Shana used to be, and i just hope they can keep up the momentum from now on, because everything else that has happened in this season could easily be discarded and nothing would change, because there is nothing that has happened outside of these last episodes, be it in terms of plot or relationship progression (regression doesn't really count). Besides some microscopic development between Eita and Ogata that is, which is about the only thing this season has managed to achieve thus far.
Besides some microscopic development between Eita and Ogata that is, which is about the only thing this season has managed to achieve thus far.
well, and Yuji's progression in training.
Indeed, forgot to mention that. Though considering it took them 9 episodes (around 1 minute /episode) to produce something workable from that, it isn't exactly something to write home about :) Thus far second season is seriously lacking in redeeming qualities ... i am holding on to hope the future episodes might change that.
Grimkill7
2007-12-04, 19:31
Indeed. These past 2 episodes had "Shakugan no Shana season 1" written all over them. I knew in the first couple of seconds from these episodes that they were different. You could just feel it. In season 1, you had some school life stuff, but you were constantly reminded of Yuji's life as a torch as well as the choices and consequences of said choices he would have to make regarding such a life. All of which happened during the school life elements. If a first time Shana watcher watches season 2, they would almost mistake it as a generic school life anime. That's how much the Konoe story detracts from it. Watch the past 2 episodes and then watch the episode where Shana destroys the flame wheel Tomogara. If it weren't for the characters, I would think I was watching a different anime altogether. I can't explain it really, but Konoe just doesn't fit.
looks like yuji will have to get strong pretty fast, it wont take too long for margerie to find out who he is.
FlareKnight
2007-12-04, 21:13
I agree that the series isn't all about action. But there are action elements present in the story so I don't think there is anything wrong in discussing them as well. It's almost like saying ignore part of what this series is because it doesn't fit as the biggest part of the series.
Agree that it wasn't a lack of action that was the problem earlier. It was a lack of anything feeling important here. Spending time with Shana and Kazumi figuring out that the feeling of jealously isn't a fun one didn't feel greatly important. Plus they did a good job of fixing the world of Flame Hazes with the one Yuji was trying to hold onto. It isn't a series with one simple dimension. So nice when it touches on all the parts that make it what it is.
So anyways should be interesting where things go from here. How does Satou move forward? Obviously he can't help as he is. Since if he's too weak then he can't go with her since she'd be afraid of sacrificing him for her revenge. Toss in Yuji's situation and you've got some interesting times right now.
tripperazn
2007-12-04, 21:33
looks like yuji will have to get strong pretty fast, it wont take too long for margerie to find out who he is.
Well considering where the lines of battle are drawn if Margery does somehow find out about Yuuji's flame, I'd say he is fairly safe. You're forgetting that he has Shana, and if everything somehow goes wrong, Wilhelmina can come back at Shana's request.
Margery has no allied flame haze and no cordial relationship with Shana at all. She has Satou and Tanaka, who can't do anything besides move in a Fuuzetsu.
Just from looking at the Flame Haze, you have Shana and potentially Wilhelmina vs Margery. It's quite easy to see who would win there.
For the human/mystes category, you have Yuuji, with spells and enough PoE to match a Guze no Ou vs 2 humans without any abilities at all.
Assassinating Yuuji isn't going to work either. The required Fuuzetsu makes surprise virtually impossible, especially since Shana will be staying with Yuuji again. His dodging is pretty good already from at least a year of training. If he is attacked he will be awake and will have a good chance of at least buying time for reinforcements.
Things are beginning to make sense now. Rami's reasons for not revealing to Margery about "Silver's" wherabouts is now clear, not that he wants to help "Silver", but he is very concerned about the safety of someone nearby if he told her there and then what "Silver" has become and where he is right now. (Though it's becoming obvious, I'll not name who that "someone" is, just to be safe. )
I know this is late, but I think I have actually been able to figure out who it is. Yes, now it makes a LOT more sense on why he had done that. Hopefully she never figures out who it is :heh:.
Well considering where the lines of battle are drawn if Margery does somehow find out about Yuuji's flame, I'd say he is fairly safe. You're forgetting that he has Shana, and if everything somehow goes wrong, Wilhelmina can come back at Shana's request.
Margery has no allied flame haze and no cordial relationship with Shana at all. She has Satou and Tanaka, who can't do anything besides move in a Fuuzetsu.
Just from looking at the Flame Haze, you have Shana and potentially Wilhelmina vs Margery. It's quite easy to see who would win there.
For the human/mystes category, you have Yuuji, with spells and enough PoE to match a Guze no Ou vs 2 humans without any abilities at all.
Assassinating Yuuji isn't going to work either. The required Fuuzetsu makes surprise virtually impossible, especially since Shana will be staying with Yuuji again. His dodging is pretty good already from at least a year of training. If he is attacked he will be awake and will have a good chance of at least buying time for reinforcements.
for some reason i feel that eventually near the final battle those 2 flamehaze will be momentartily suppressed leaving yuji vs margery for a quick battle.
Master Chibi
2007-12-05, 00:15
It was also never the poor excuse of a continuation that the season has been feeding us thus far. I don't know about others, but it is not the action i necessarily liked (though there is nothing bad about liking that either), but the fact that something actually relevant with a semblance of actually being relatively important (even if only for character background) happened.
The whole Konoe arc is basically the same thing over and over and over again, not to mention it rides on continuity inconsistencies and a whopping plothole regarding to season 1 to exist in the first place. (and a good measure of formerly not present idiocy cluelessness on Yuji's side) There is a difference between being slow paced and seemingly pointless, and the whole Konoe arc is much closer to the later. And while Shana was not a pure action series (though actually some people are trying to push this claim too far), it was never a crappy highschool romance flick either. Everything important this show was built upon has become nothing more than a trivial background decoration and nearly forgotten.
Thats why i at least like the last two episodes - they resemble what Shakugan no Shana used to be, and i just hope they can keep up the momentum from now on, because everything else that has happened in this season could easily be discarded and nothing would change, because there is nothing that has happened outside of these last episodes, be it in terms of plot or relationship progression (regression doesn't really count). Besides some microscopic development between Eita and Ogata that is, which is about the only thing this season has managed to achieve thus far.
A-freaking-men.
Suzumiya Haruhi
2007-12-05, 00:32
Wow. This episode actually made me piss my pants in excitement.
Which the last several episodes failed to do. o_O
Anh_Minh
2007-12-05, 01:52
Well considering where the lines of battle are drawn if Margery does somehow find out about Yuuji's flame, I'd say he is fairly safe. You're forgetting that he has Shana, and if everything somehow goes wrong, Wilhelmina can come back at Shana's request.
Margery has no allied flame haze and no cordial relationship with Shana at all. She has Satou and Tanaka, who can't do anything besides move in a Fuuzetsu.
Just from looking at the Flame Haze, you have Shana and potentially Wilhelmina vs Margery. It's quite easy to see who would win there.
For the human/mystes category, you have Yuuji, with spells and enough PoE to match a Guze no Ou vs 2 humans without any abilities at all.
Assassinating Yuuji isn't going to work either. The required Fuuzetsu makes surprise virtually impossible, especially since Shana will be staying with Yuuji again. His dodging is pretty good already from at least a year of training. If he is attacked he will be awake and will have a good chance of at least buying time for reinforcements.
A Fuzetsu is nice to avoid collateral damage and disturbing the neighbours, but it's not necessary.
And what can Yuji do right now, besides casting a Fuzetsu?
If Margery can attack Shana while Wilhelmina's away, she has a pretty good chance.
tripperazn
2007-12-05, 03:23
A Fuzetsu is nice to avoid collateral damage and disturbing the neighbours, but it's not necessary.
And what can Yuji do right now, besides casting a Fuzetsu?
If Margery can attack Shana while Wilhelmina's away, she has a pretty good chance.
Can you name an instance where a Flame Haze has used powers when NOT under a Fuuzetsu spell? Shana's hair turns red and her cape appears only under a Fuuzetsu, which is a pretty good indication that something changes when that spell is in effect.
Yuuji might not be competent on offense, but he can certainly sense tomogara and Flame Haze about as well as Shana. So, even if I am mistaken and a Fuuzetsu isn't necessary, she won't be attacking a target that is unaware of her presence. As demonstrated in his daily practice, Yuuji has pretty good movement, more than enough to at least buy time and distract Margery.
If I remember correctly, Shana was slightly weaker than Margery in Season 1. She has gotten stronger since then, as evidenced by the flame wings. Meanwhile, Margery has been in a drunken stupor...for at least months.
Regardless of Wilhelmina's presence, it's a 2v1 anyway. Shana is at least pretty close to Margery in terms of power and therefore holds the advantage. Margery would probably be trying to kill Yuuji the whole time, while Shana is free to attack. I really can't imagine a more tactically perfect situation for Shana and Yuuji.
I'm far more interested in what Satou and Eita do in response to this situation. They already want power, but how? Would they really use it to kill their friend for Margery's sake?
minhtam1638
2007-12-05, 03:26
Can you name an instance where a Flame Haze has used powers when NOT under a Fuuzetsu spell? Shana's hair turns red and her cape appears only under a Fuuzetsu, which is a pretty good indication that something changes when that spell is in effect.
Somebody needs to re-watch episode 1-04.
tripperazn
2007-12-05, 03:32
Somebody needs to re-watch episode 1-04.
Bah, it's really been a while. Yuuji's ability to sense Flame Haze pretty much makes this a moot point though.
So, let me get this straight - if Margery finds out about Yuji having Silver in his Fuzetsu, she won't be very happy and may attack Yuji?
O___O'
Can you name an instance where a Flame Haze has used powers when NOT under a Fuuzetsu spell? Shana's hair turns red and her cape appears only under a Fuuzetsu, which is a pretty good indication that something changes when that spell is in effect.
Her Yogasa coat appears in various times when she is not in a Fuzetsu... A fast example that comes to mind is the naked scene in Season 1.
Shana also used her flaming wings while teaching Yuji on how to channel power of existence and making it explode back in the first season. Another would be at the beginning of one of the episodes where Shana was questioning about the meaning of a kiss and the Aisen siblings debut. The Fuzetsu also wasn't cast in both of those times either.
Shana did beat Margery once and there is something about uncontrolled raw anger making you very predictable in combat. If Margery does see Yuji's flame to be silver, she's going to be like a rabid wolf on the prowl or like a shark that senses blood, thus becoming very predictable for Shana and Yuji to handle.
The Balle Masque isn't finished with the matter regarding the Reiji Maigo so I wouldn't be surprised if Bel Peor or Sydonay show up.
Oh yes. Oh god yes.
Awesome episode. What a nice Fuzetsu
HayashiTakara
2007-12-05, 13:07
Yuji has developed some offensive control of his powers. He defeated that simulated Rin that Wily made. Hes been showing good signs as of late. He just needs to stop being such a pansy and whine "I cant wah wah I cant do it"
He just needs to stop being such a pansy and whine "I cant wah wah I cant do it"
You took the words right out of my mouth :D
I also wonder wether a future episode would be about Shana being jelous of Yuiji's superior spell casting skilz? I mean shana is a fighting type herself...
Anh_Minh
2007-12-05, 15:44
Shana also used her flaming wings while teaching Yuji on how to channel power of existence and making it explode back in the first season. Another would be at the beginning of one of the episodes where Shana was questioning about the meaning of a kiss and the Aisen siblings debut. The Fuzetsu also wasn't cast in both of those times either.
Shana did beat Margery once and there is something about uncontrolled raw anger making you very predictable in combat. If Margery does see Yuji's flame to be silver, she's going to be like a rabid wolf on the prowl or like a shark that senses blood, thus becoming very predictable for Shana and Yuji to handle.
The Balle Masque isn't finished with the matter regarding the Reiji Maigo so I wouldn't be surprised if Bel Peor or Sydonay show up.
Yuji's good for figuring out subtle attacks with hidden weaknesses. That would be completely useless against Margery who's anything but subtle.
Flame wings aren't an advantage, since Margery can fly too. For that matter, Yuji can't fly, so she could easily take the fight into the air and make him irrelevant. Not that he wasn't before. He's just too weak, right now. His strengths - sensing and smarts - aren't the right tools against an enraged Margery.
If Margery decides to take off the kiddy gloves and really do her best to kill Shana while Wilhelmina's out of the picture, I think the odds are stacked in her favor. (It's not a certain victory, but still.)
If a Margery vs Shana went down, i think Margery has a fair chance of winning this. Unless something has changed, Shana should not be much of a caster, while we have seen Margery dish out some heavy punishment via ranged attacks. Yuji would have very hard time surviving these as well. Granted blind rage might work against her, but who knows - if she seriously wants to go all out, i think Shana is in trouble. Yuji would be absolutely useless in a fight of this caliber.
That said, i am not sure Margery is going to jump at his throat that simply either - i mean there is no chance of Yuji being the silver guy, so even if she might lash out in initial impulse, i think she would calm down in a bit.
Anh_Minh
2007-12-05, 18:05
I'm not sure Yuji's in all that much direct danger from her spells - he's still got that ring that protects against Flame.
If she wants to kill him, she could easily do it physically, though.
And yeah, I don't think she'll be all that unreasonable either. Unless she knows something we don't about how Denizens can hide in torches or something.
I'm just saying, if it comes to that, Shana's in trouble.
Though it doesn't seem that Margery attacks with flames - more like your regular blasts of energy. I don't think the ring would offer much protection from that. Even if it somehow did, the force of explosion should still send him flying.
Personally i don't think Margery is going to assault Yuji either.
I think a possible Yuji vs Margery battle could bring out some UNFORESEEN CONSEQUENCES. Perhaps under a ton of battle stress, Yuji might get caught in some unexpected chain of events.
Course, Margery would be shocked at the ease of the battle being in her advantage that she would wonder, "Is the Silver really that weak or something?"
KaneDragon
2007-12-05, 20:46
I can't imagine this happening, but how about this "Silver" acting like a superpowered evil side, ala Ichigo's hollow-mode in Bleach? Yuji suddenly sprouting armor on half his body and being an evil badass would be so at ends with his normal behavior I'd die laughing.
Aquifina
2007-12-05, 22:39
Yeah, seriously, if only Shana tripped a little in the Fuuzetsu and sliced her up. At least as a torch we would know her presence is only temporary >.<**
There was some pretty nice Shana development from it though...she's a lot more deredere now. She even encouraged Yuuji in training O.o That was something I thought I'd never see.
She's also genuinely proud of him--I think it's really quite sweet. It also shows that Shana's still a fighter at heart; she gets along best with Yuji either in training or in battle.
charizardpal
2007-12-06, 00:27
Anyone starting to think that with all of the filler, (episodes based on games, character-based episodes, flashbacks), we might not actually complete the series at the season finale in march?
KaneDragon
2007-12-06, 00:47
There was a possibility?
grey_moon
2007-12-06, 01:25
does Silver even have a personality necessary for an ego?
seemed like he was just a bunch of freaky red eyes and insect legs under the armor...
Hard to say, but every tomogara apart from Remi has had their head shoved so far up their bottoms and I can't see why silver would be any different.
In regards to S1 v S2, you may notice that I've given up ranting on about it as I've decided to treat them as separate shows a bit like City Hunter and Angel Heart. It is a lot easier on my stress levels that way :)
I dunno about Margery now winning as she just seems to be a drunken agony aunt. Margery from S1 would whop some arse because of her kill kill nature. Shana would be too worried about protecting Yuji and I think that would leave her a too big an opening.
The path of the Flame Haze is that on which they make the tough choice of sacrificing everything to fulfill the goal: kill Tomogara in order to quench the thirst for revenge.
That's what I learned from the conclusion to Margery's flashback.
But it wasn't that bad for Yuri, since he actually did something and not just standing there uttering over and over the same words... 'wanting to save', or 'wanting to protect'.
He requested the power and with that power he backed up those words, prioritizing the goals of the Flame Haze but at the same time living up to his own beliefs and morals.
Therefore, Annaberg would have been very pleased to learn that he was killed by a Flame Haze, who used his powers for more constructive reasons and not going ape for revenge. Too bad for that Tomogara that it wasn't the case.
My interpretation on Margery's reaction upon returning to the tavern and at the end of the episode is, the way I see it, she felt some unneeded uneasy or void. She didn't hesitate to sacrifice Yuri who step in the way in order to save herself for another chance in her quest to search for the Silver.
She usually never thinks about her actions once, but she did so at the aftermath of the fight.
Margery made clear two things:
1. She will keep on sacrificing everything and even those mean dear to her for the purpose of her revenge.
2. She doesn't intend to continue existing after destroying the Silver.
My opinion is that in the present-day while in her sleep she cried for sacrificing Yuri in order to preserve herself on that day and fears those memories will fade the more she plunges in the battlefield and the rage consumes her.
Things don't go bode well in the horizon either now that Yuuji has pulled out a disheartening surprise in store for both Alastor and Shana's astonishment. The color of his flame is silver. That same silver who took everything from Margery.
lua thien
2007-12-09, 17:35
I wonder on tactics: Sydonay shot a fireball that was approaching Yuri. Margery could've quickly dodged and sent a fireball straight at Sydonay when he had his guard down and his attention turned towards Yuri. Sure, Yuri would've died anyway but Margery could've killed Sydonay that day.
But I guess raw anger hinders mental thinking into seeing the whole picture: Let the other Flame Haze take the blast while you evade and quickly attack your enemy while his guard is down.
The writers oughta try making a "Boba Fett" Flame Haze in the season or the next...
bloodyknight
2007-12-09, 21:57
Whatever the reason, I think that Yuri may not even need to intervene at that time... Sydonay has already thought in his mind whether he should retreat since continue this battle is needless especially when his client has been destroyed. He could have just left even if Margery has the intention but not the strength to continue to chase after him.
Yuri should have waited for a few seconds, doing some show of force before charging in like a madman and get himself killed... He has already killed the client... He shouldn;t try to be greedy...
Even if he wants to protect Margery, he should have picked a good time... and not use himself as some srot of distraction that end up killing himself in the process... I think that is oneof the reasons why Margery felt so bad when she return to the bar with his scorched glasses...
But on the other hand, may be Yuri has no time on his sleeves... Maybe, just maybe, he is already on the verge of death for using too much of his strength... That is why the reckless act occured...
But no matter what it is, all is in the past... There is no way to go back time and change this event... Perhaps that is why Margery tell those two about this story...
She must have thought that to be a Flamehaze for no one else except for the 'mission' is much better than to be hre sole guardian in the end... She might just use him as a tool unwillingly and let her experience the same old thing again...
It is obvious that she did not want to do that again!!!
Liddo-kun
2007-12-17, 10:31
I wonder on tactics: Sydonay shot a fireball that was approaching Yuri. Margery could've quickly dodged and sent a fireball straight at Sydonay when he had his guard down and his attention turned towards Yuri. Sure, Yuri would've died anyway but Margery could've killed Sydonay that day.
Shooting Sydonay with a fireball might not have been enough.
On the final episodes of Shana S1, both Margery and Syd hit each other with strong fireball - neither of them died.
Shooting Sydonay with a fireball might not have been enough.
On the final episodes of Shana S1, both Margery and Syd hit each other with strong fireball - neither of them died.
That was because the fountain of existence created by Yuji and Hecate allowed Sydonay and Margery to have unlimited power of existence that they simply healed themselves constantly.
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