Higurashi Kai Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai, Episode 23.

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[Phoenix14]

This is episode looks like it will have a lot of gunfire...

I like gunfire...:F

[Kang Seung Jae]

Shootout at noon!

[Sterling01]

I'm wondering what they'll leave for the last episode

[SirusRiddler]

It would be so cool to see Rena go all Sannosuke on the Yamainu provided the giant ironclad cleaver from Hidebu Kai existed. xD

Saving Major Tomitake anyone?

[Kristen]

I am kind of tempted to pre-vote this a "1", because it's painful to know that there are only two episodes left. :p

I guess this episode will all be about Irie and Shion trying to get back to the clinic. It's probably about noon of watanagashi now in that world, and this will probably be the story from noon to something like 6 PM (I'm assuming it'll end on the night of watanagashi)

[Sterling01]

It would be so cool to see Rena go all Sannosuke on the Yamainu provided the giant ironclad cleaver from Hidebu Kai existed. xD

Saving Major Tomitake anyone?

For some reason I want Keiichi to go into SEED mode

Saving Major Tomitake it could be the next great war movie

[MarthX]

Let's hope the animation quality goes back to normal. It would be a shame to have another finale ruined by bad animation.

[patnam]

Battle of Hinamizawa (June 1983)

- Rika's group (Hinamizawa residents)

STRENGHT :
Several key members and numbers of Tomotake's reinforcements

Main Combatants :
Rika Furude (Leader)
Hanyuu Furude (ex-Leader)
Keiichi Maebara
Rena Ryuuga
Sonozaki Family (Mion Sonozaki, Shion Sonozaki, Tatsuyoshi Kasai)
Satoko Hojo
Jiro Tomitake (held captured)
Kuraudo Oishi
Kyosuke Irie
Mamoru Akasaka (Back Up)

VS

- Yamainu group

STRENGHT :
Estimate 200 Yamainu members

Main Combatants :
Miyo Takano (Commander of Yamainu)

[Sterling01]

Your forgot about Gin-sama and Satoshi who's M.I.A

[MarthX]

Okonogi should be listed separately.

[Shiroth]

For some reason I want Keiichi to go into SEED mode
You mean CRAZY SWINGING BAT mode.

[MarthX]

Great episode.


Kasai shows his GAR side and Shion finally finds Satoshi.

I loved the cliffhanger too.

[Klashikari]

Episode 23: bullet summary and screencaps (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-23-matsuribatashi-hen-10-kessen/)

This episode was a good followup to last week. The quality of this episode is more centred to "normal", though they can obviously do better.
That said, much like last week, the BGM were quite dull (no "Search and Destroy" like BGM for the booby traps moment >_>), but nothing that "severe".
Kasai "batshit" mode was excellent, and he is sure a trusty bodyguard/soldier. Excellent combo with Aksaka :D
meanwhile, more kudos for Yukino Satsuki who was brilliant with the mood "switch" with Shion, for the emotional, desperate but also heartwarming/hopeful scene about Satoshi.

Last episode will conclude this fabulous franchise. Can't wait for this.

[SiRence~]

one episode left, i really can't wait ...


kasai really scared me for a little moment :uhoh:! but he was cool, i think i like him even more than before.

my heart was pounding when shion made her way to satoshi, ohmahgawd. but even so, she can't reach him for now :( .. quite touching that scene.

lol and hanyuu was a great kami-sama! and a kinda evil one XD~ the methods our heroes used to beat the yamainu really made me laugh. dancing yamainu on a wood trunk, hehehe :heh:

and whee, tommy is free! \o/

[Shiroth]

And, so it looks like the 'OHMYGOD SO GAR' award this weeks goes to Kasai.

Satoshi scene.. ;___;

[Sterling01]

It was good but not great

The teddy bear is ugly
Lonely Takano is Pitiful
I'm liking Okonogi more and more
Hanyu's God Voice is WIN
Like the blood on Irie's coat
Will they change the ending?
That teddy bear is fucking ugly
Oh and Takano does not know when to give up

[MarthX]

It's not great because of the teddy bear? :eyebrow:

[harukamae]

THAT was a fun episode!

Kasai is freaking awesome. Top of my list for characters, although seeing Tomitake actually take on the Yamainu in that C Part a few episodes back mighta changed my mind...

That Satoshi scene - grrrrr - I know I'm spoiled, but I really want some closure to the Satoshi situation - I wanna see him up and around, patting all the girls in town on their heads like the manwhore he is. ;-) But I agree, it was a tearjerker.

And of course, god-voice Hanyuu. Who else here thinks she could take Haruhi?

Or...uh maybe Haruhi'd just glomp her to death...
So it's really only going to be 24 this time around? NYUUUUUUUUUU!

[Sterling01]

It's not great because of the teddy bear? :eyebrow:
No I was just pointing out that I thougt the bear was fugly

The reason it wasn't great was because it seemed boring for some reason

@harukamae: Satoshi=Manwhore :confused:

[Rias]

There are some good parts and some bad parts in this epsiode, let's talk about the good first:

-Kasai scene, both when kicking ass and when realized that he made a mistake.
-Tears from Satoshi before scene change
-Hanyuu + K voice


As for the bad...

-Art quality has gone down again...most noteworthy one is Hanyuu's face and body when Satoko was bragging about Keiichi
-BGM, but that's nothing new.
-Keiichi + Rena "Yay!". What is this, a gag anime?
-Takano seducing Tomi. Kinda knew it wasn't going to be in.
-Maid in Heaven. Where did it go?

Overall I guess it's an alright episode.

[Sterling01]

-Keiichi + Rena "Yay!". What is this, a gag anime?

For some reason it made me want to vomit.


-Maid in Heaven. Where did it go?

I don't the anime had ever touched on Maid in Heaven so I didn't expect it would have show up

[Klashikari]

The anime did, though they didn't go deep enough to mention "MAID HEAVEN".
But they surely have shown the fetish, unlike Chie's uncanny obsession with curry... (at least, she wasn't completely shafted like Ciel, who ate spaghetti in Shingetsutan -__-)

[Shiosai]

The Shion scene was great. Hurry up and cure the man, Irie!

There were a few silly scenes I could do without like the log rolling:
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2672/logrolltl9.jpg

[MarthX]

It's log, it's log, it's big, it's heavy, it's wood.

[Sterling01]

One thing how did they get those logs set up?

[SSJiffy]

One thing how did they get those logs set up?

Are you ascertaining that these kids don't posses the strength to cut down so many logs or be able to launch them like that at the enemy? /sarcasm.

Enjoy the rest of the end of the series, I look forward to the conclusion. ;)

[MarthX]

Preview for 24 is up

http://www.animate.tv/special/higurasi_yokoku.php

What is the episode title?

[VRMN]

Preview for 24 is up

http://www.animate.tv/special/higurasi_yokoku.php

What is the episode title?

オシマイ just means "end," I believe. Fitting, obviously, though again with the spoiling in the preview...such a cliffhanger, ne?

[Ice Climbers]

I wonder if they are going to put that arc in which Rika goes insane in as a bonus/OVA??

Anyways, still looking to see this :)

[Nemesis Zone]

its really sad thing this forum is gonna move after 1 episode:(

this time i hope happy ending

when the epsode i out subbed Emglish i will see it

[Ottocycle]

Horie Yui=Goddess.

That is all.

[SirusRiddler]

These last few episodes have been bringing out the GAR out of everyone. xD Kasai is so friggin awesome!

Judging by the preview however...the next episode doesn't seem nearly as intense. In fact, it looks like a very passive end to the whole ordeal. Hopefully, I'm wrong about that. :/ Speaking of preview...finally a better look at the upcoming movie in the special episode?

[Deathkillz]

kasai you fricking legend! XD
Next to tomitake SMASH...his shotgun is the best XD

Dam irony that he even managed to kill any form of communication :rolleyes:

Satoshi is still alive (yay!) but not in the best of shapes (boo!) - poor shion ;_;

okonogi and his military tactics got owned XD his pride must be completely smashed...

But then comes the cliffhanger ending - this is going to be a bumpy ride O.O

[SnEptUne]

There are some good parts and some bad parts in this epsiode, let's talk about the good first:

-Kasai scene, both when kicking ass and when realized that he made a mistake.
-Tears from Satoshi before scene change
-Hanyuu + K voice


As for the bad...

-Art quality has gone down again...most noteworthy one is Hanyuu's face and body when Satoko was bragging about Keiichi
-BGM, but that's nothing new.
-Keiichi + Rena "Yay!". What is this, a gag anime?
-Takano seducing Tomi. Kinda knew it wasn't going to be in.
-Maid in Heaven. Where did it go?

Overall I guess it's an alright episode.

I am actually being indifferent to the Satoshi's scene. Maybe it is because I was expecting worse, or maybe the music and dialogue didn't convey enough feeling? I like the bear however, it suits the mood perfectly.

On the other hand, the fight scene in the mountain is unrealistic. Firstly, how can they not figured out that's Keichi's voice? Why didn't they notice the difference between voices of some teenager and of their group members?

Secondly, being a professional agents, they cannot even spot traps? It is excusable for the first 10 minutes or so because they underestimated the traps, but when they are being cautious, how could they not notice the pure white dress and hat of Rena standing so close to them, or the red shirt of Keiichi? And geez, why are the kids still wear the same bright clothings instead of camouflage in a mountain? They are asking to be shot!

[kingsky123]

studio deen is too stiff , i think what the writer didnt do as it was a visual novel the anime followed

[Supergrunch]

The anime did, though they didn't go deep enough to mention "MAID HEAVEN".
But they surely have shown the fetish, unlike Chie's uncanny obsession with curry... (at least, she wasn't completely shafted like Ciel, who ate spaghetti in Shingetsutan -__-)
I think the curry thing was mentioned in a conversation with okonogi in episode 24 of the first series, along the lines of "It's hot today." "Yes, but on a hot day, curry is good." "Is that so?"

[harukamae]

LOL the preview was amusing, I can't wait for live action Higurashi next year.

But of course it could never touch the artistic masterpiece that is Higurashi Ga Naku Koro ni. Not even Ryuu-chan himself could out do that and y'all know it. :-)

In the mean time it sucks that next week is last episode...oh well, hopefully they rerelease Matsuri soon so I can play Miotsukushi-hen...

[Sterling01]

The new Matsuri is coming out the 20th

Also I have a really bad felling that Higurashi Ga Naku Koro ni is going to be better then live action Higurashi movie

[MarthX]

Not possible.

All the lines were mumbled. There was no enthusiasm or emotion.

[Klashikari]

^ as far as I could see on youtube, it is so cheap (material wise) it is not even funny (see how "keiichi' was stained by "blood"... even a kid would figure such treachery).

The ONLY kudo to this "thing": they actually use the BGM from the original game.
I can't fathom how the "true content" of higurashi ga would be. (do NOT want)

[Rias]

At least the live action movie doesn't have fat Mion.

[Sterling01]

But nether Mion looks like Mion

[Daveish]

Does anybody know when the subs are expected to be released?

[Sterling01]

They'll be released when they're released Hauu~ is quite random

[Supergrunch]

And they usually get posted first on 4chan, and there's currently some kind of hacking war going on there.

[Eryops]

The ASS file had been released on Fridays for the past four weeks, followed by the matroska version on Saturday. As a result, I'm a bit surprised that it's not out yet; perhaps he has been busy over the past week. All we can do it keep an eye out on this page (http://tracker.anirena.com/browse.php?search=hauu&cat=0) and wait.

[Fychan]

The ASS file had been released on Fridays for the past four weeks, followed by the matroska version on Saturday. As a result, I'm a bit surprised that it's not out yet; perhaps he has been busy over the past week. All we can do it keep an eye out on this page and wait.

Actually, since he posts it on 4chan boards, it's quite impossible for him to release it.
And if the ones who do the matroska version aren't the same the one who release the subs, they are probably waiting for it too.
(but I don't know if this teory is right ^^')

[Eryops]

Actually, since he posts it on 4chan boards, it's quite impossible for him to release it.
And if the ones who do the matroska version aren't the same the one who release the subs, they are probably waiting for it too.
(but I don't know if this teory is right ^^')
4chan is already back actually, and it being down wouldn't prevent him from uploading the matroska file to that tracker anyway. And I'm pretty sure it's one guy, since he had once posted both the ASS and the matroska versions in 4chan simultaneously.

[MarthX]

Subs!

http://rapidshare.com/files/76849823/Higurashi.no.Naku.Koro.ni.Kai.23.ass.html

[Eryops]

-Maid in Heaven. Where did it go?
I've seen Maid in Heaven mentioned elsewhere as well; could someone please explain what it it?

On the other hand, the fight scene in the mountain is unrealistic. Firstly, how can they not figured out that's Keichi's voice? Why didn't they notice the difference between voices of some teenager and of their group members?

Secondly, being a professional agents, they cannot even spot traps? It is excusable for the first 10 minutes or so because they underestimated the traps, but when they are being cautious, how could they not notice the pure white dress and hat of Rena standing so close to them, or the red shirt of Keiichi? And geez, why are the kids still wear the same bright clothings instead of camouflage in a mountain? They are asking to be shot!
I was quite disappointed by that as well. Having five schoolkids defeat dozens of military special forces personnel breached my suspension of disbelief. Before watching this episode I had guessed that the Yamainu would get neutralized by the Banken; seeing them getting taken out the way they were instead made them look like clowns. I hope that the last episode will make up for this.

[Klashikari]

I've seen Maid in Heaven mentioned elsewhere as well; could someone please explain what it it?
That's basically Irie's maid fetish. He looks like a bit "obsessed" in the anime, but he is completely nuts about it in reality. Whenever he can, Irie mentions the world should be reshaped with maid uniforms etc.
I was quite disappointed by that as well. Having five schoolkids defeat dozens of military special forces personnel breached my suspension of disbelief. Before watching this episode I had guessed that the Yamainu would get neutralized by the Banken; seeing them getting taken out the way they were instead made them look like clowns. I hope that the last episode will make up for this.Believe it or not, but trap can take down any kind of person, child or adult alike, even if they are supposed to be "professional".
While the fact Satoko can do so much traps can be questionable, traps themselves are obviously not something to laugh at. The wicked parts of these is the psychological impact of these, because even if you lose the edge of the surprise, being overcautious can make you miss the obvious.

As shown in this ep and minagoroshi, they baltantly portrayed the yamainu as a conceit soldier forces, which obviously lead to chaos if they didn't have sufficient preparations.
In a way, the struggle is on the same scale of Minagoroshi, where the club members could take down the 4 yamainu guys by themselves.


@SnEptUne: They don't have a close observation on Rika's surrouding. They obviously don't know how Keiichi's voice is.
Also, "usually", in anime they don't try to change voices too much as it can be confusing and problematic for the seiyuu to do that. As "explained" by Satoko, he skreetched his voice. Considering how someone can do a weird voice after some panic, you have the drill.

Second, considering how they were hidden, the yamainu men could at most notice rena dress and only if a part is too long, that's all. As far as we can see, they don't have a bias line of sight. Keiichi is obviously CROUCHING, so the bush covers him completely, while Rena has a soft spot on her line of sight, her hat cannot be seen if we take the yamainu's sight.


I don't think it is completely realist, but there are too much "high expectations" when some "elite troops" are mentioned.

[Eryops]

Believe it or not, but trap can take down any kind of person, child or adult alike, even if they are supposed to be "professional".
While the fact Satoko can do so much traps can be questionable, traps themselves are obviously not something to laugh at. The wicked parts of these is the psychological impact of these, because even if you lose the edge of the surprise, being overcautious can make you miss the obvious.

As shown in this ep and minagoroshi, they baltantly portrayed the yamainu as a conceit soldier forces, which obviously lead to chaos if they didn't have sufficient preparations.
In a way, the struggle is on the same scale of Minagoroshi, where the club members could take down the 4 yamainu guys by themselves.
You'd expect them to be better at spotting and evading traps. Besides, the fact that some of them deserted their units after simply hearing a scary voice on the radio was rather hard to swallow; these men should be trained to charge enemies firing upon them, so them having such little discipline seems quite odd.

As for Minagoroshi, the Yamainu that got ambushed didn't expect to encounter any resistance, so that was a bit more realistic. After that happened I'm guessing that Takano wanted to kill the group herself, so that might explain why the Yamainu didn't attack the group.

[MarthX]

The voice alone wasn't the reason. The voice and the Oyashiro-sama's curse. Takano and the Yamainu weren't responsible for all of them. It's also possible not all the Yamainu are aware that Takano was behind them. They could also be suffering from Hinamizawa Syndrome from all the stress. There are several possibilities.

[Klashikari]

You'd expect them to be better at spotting and evading traps. Besides, the fact that some of them deserted their units after simply hearing a scary voice on the radio was rather hard to swallow; these men should be trained to charge enemies firing upon them, so them having such little discipline seems quite odd.
You cannot figure how the impact of trap is actually big, especially compared to a conceit attitude.
As i explained, the surprise might be lessened, but doubt and all are effective. As demonstrated, some soldiers reported that some traps were almost lethal, which is hardly something you would expect from kids.
This is actually the "psychological effect" of traps and the chaotic situation: as Okonogi didn't monitor them properly, his men were spread out, as they were not only caught off guard, but it has a snowball effect: seeing your comrades "falling" in battle "should" improve you awareness, but that's only a pretty point on paper. On the battlefield, the sole effect of losing comrades and frontlines is already a shock. This gets even bigger effect if they "know" it is from kids.

While they have the skill to obviously avoid traps (as shown in episode 22), the scale of this operation is quite different. I don't think people would actually laugh seeing bunch of tree trunks rolling at an alarming speed on your faces. Seeing troops falling like flies by pack is a huge blow on the moral.

Granted, I can understand that the guy who ran away because of the voice was a bit over the top. However, they were already worn out by a "supposedly easy" compaign, which turned into a complete failure. Adding some eerie points and the usual stuff about "oyashiro-sama" in hinamizawa, you have the deal.
As for Minagoroshi, the Yamainu that got ambushed didn't expect to encounter any resistance, so that was a bit more realistic. After that happened I'm guessing that Takano wanted to kill the group herself, so that might explain why the Yamainu didn't attack the group.
As far as I can see, in Matsuribayashi-hen, the yamainu don't expect much resistence either. The whole deal in the previous episodes was because of the shelter, and so the inner grounds of the Sonozaki.
In this episode, they are in the moutain, a completely isolated place. That's the reason why Okonogi thought they signed their doom, because of such secluded, so supposed to be at THEIR advantage.
So, expecting big resistance from bunch of kids, with maybe 1-2 adults in the lot is quite not something they would think, especially due their number and equipement.

Again, the psychological impact and the conceit moral at the start were their downfall.

[Shiroth]

Hmm, i don't know if Satoshi's tear was a bit to much, or the perfect add-in to that scene. Either way, very beautiful.

[Kristen]

I can definately feel the series beggining to wind down. I'm sure the next episode is going to be climatic, but it's like everything is falling into perfect place, and the end is nigh. I'm kind of upset that there is only one more episode left in this series.

Hanyuu sounded awesome! I thought that was Takano going crazy at first, but it wasn't anything close. It's just a shame that there isn't more Rena in this arc than in the past.

For this episode, I'm going to give it an 8. It didn't feel like episode 22 did. It may have something to do with the fact that I kept pausing it whenever parentals walked by out of an old habit. But regardless, it just seemed to be missing a little something.

And now the mystery of Mr. Bear is solved! :)

[Sterling01]

I've seen Maid in Heaven mentioned elsewhere as well; could someone please explain what it it?


The best example of Maid in Heaven that's translated is this TIPS (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=575860&postcount=48)

Irie is very creepy when he gets into it

Though on the topic of fetishes I find it funny that Miyo and Keiichi share one

[ImpulseRAven]

The best example of Maid in Heaven that's translated is this TIPS (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=575860&postcount=48)

Irie is very creepy when he gets into it

Though on the topic of fetishes I find it funny that Miyo and Keiichi share one

and which fetish would that be?<.<

[FlareKnight]

So things really are coming towards a close. Kind of sad when you think of it like that. It's been a long road, but might as well enjoy the series right to the very end.

I figure when Satoko the trap master is involved nothing should be surprising. It's finally a chance for her to go completely all out and unleash her terror on someone besides Keiichi :). Sure they are professionals, but she is just that damn good at trapping.

Besides like its been said it may sound simple, but once people around you are getting caught and it's starting to become chaos around its not so easy to keep your cool. Also going in overconfident would lead to things getting started with the people getting trapped.

Some things like the dancing on the logs seemed needlessly silly, wouldn't have minded them just getting run over. Full points to Hanyuu for playing the dark god of doom quite well. You'd almost think she was a god or something :heh:. Never hurts to toss in some psychological warfare.

Curious about the end. I mean Akasaka and Tomitake should be smarter than just sending your average van into that situation. Not like they would be surprised by the weaponry against them. So hopefully that van is a lot sturdier than it looks or they have some idea. After all if they killed there no chance of grabbing the Banken. Satoko has done a great job so far, but they will need some help.

[bamboontu]

Hanyuu sounded awesome! I thought that was Takano going crazy at first, but it wasn't anything close. It's just a shame that there isn't more Rena in this arc than in the past.
My first thought was about Rika's mum, being alive and playing tricks on the Yamainu. ;) Her voice and words about sacrilege made me think so.

Curious about the end. I mean Akasaka and Tomitake should be smarter than just sending your average van into that situation. Not like they would be surprised by the weaponry against them. So hopefully that van is a lot sturdier than it looks or they have some idea. After all if they killed there no chance of grabbing the Banken. Satoko has done a great job so far, but they will need some help.
Rocket-proof flying car will totally crush my feelings about higu kai! :eyespin:

[SirusRiddler]

I dunno, the shot heard during the blackout sounded more like a rifle shot than a launching of a RPG. Perhaps there is a sniper around? xD

[bamboontu]

The sniper plan is perfect solution, but in that case there's no need for Akasaka to drive on full throttle. I mean if Yamainu man are wiped out they should dismantle the roadblock not to break through it.

[Sterling01]

and which fetish would that be?<.<
They both like to shoot young girls

[SiRence~]

They both like to shoot young girls
hahahaha lol. :heh::heh:

[Christen]

Just curious, what was the BGM being played in the game during the Satoshi scene?

[Deathkillz]

Psycho warfare! :heh:
Having the subs made that scene so much more funnier -

"HUMAN ORGANS!!!"

:heh:

The garbage that takano is saying just reflects how stressed she is...oh dear O.O

[Rika_Chama]

if the next episode is the last wont that mean hanyuus past wont be shown? and ouka to

[Sterling01]

if the next episode is the last wont that mean hanyuus past wont be shown? and ouka to
They might have it at the very end but that's highly unlikely

[Archuka]

Meh, this was a bad episode.

1) Placing all those traps would have taken months. Also, how could they possibly know where exactly the enemy will walk and place their traps accordingly? And logs? Where did they find logs? And how did they get them where they wanted them? And how did Keichi and Rena know the three guys would come at them through that exact spot that allowed them to catapult the barrel at them?

The whole mountain scenario was so ridiculous in so many ways. It was a huge disappointment. :(

2) Why are the Yamainu so horribly incompetent? It's like they randomly picked some teens off the streets to be in their elite force. There is no way Kasai should have been able to intimidate the two guys at the clinic like that. Besides, one of them had a clear opening to shoot Kasai while his friend was being kicked and he did nothing.

3) How come the kids are so calm and confident? They're being chased by a dozen guys with automatic weapons! Any normal person would be on the edge of panicking in a situation like that.

4) The animation was pretty bad again. I felt the animation in most action scenes lacking and there was that one scene where Hanyuu was praising Keichi and he just stood frozen like a lemon and it looked really unrealistic. That is not how a studio like KyoAni would have handled it.

This is rapidly becoming my least favourite chapter in the anime. They're constantly breaking the mood with absurdities that have no place in an anime with a serious plot like Higurashi.

[Sterling01]

1. Those Traps were placed by Satoko as she was growing up. So yes it did take months for all the traps to be set

2. Kasai knocked out both of them. So no the other Yamainu couldn't have shot him

3. These kids aren't what you call normal. As Satoko killed her parents, Mion forced her sister to get her fingernails pulled out, Keiichi shot at littile girls with a bb gun, Rena is well Rena, and don't even get me started on Rika and Hanyuu

4. Yes the animation is bad sometimes, Though if you played the original games... let's just say it's an improvement

[MarthX]

You're nitpicking over little details.

Obviously everything was planned out. They just don't go into detail explaining everything because that would waste precious time. There's also obvious stuff like "how could they know where they enemy would go?" Duh, they don't. There's just traps all over the area.

Do you really need everything explained to you?

[Christen]

These kids aren't what you call normal.

Don't underestimate club members >)

[Eryops]

1. Those Traps were placed by Satoko as she was growing up. So yes it did take months for all the traps to be set

To be fair though, that was only mentioned in one of the TIPS (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=575493#post575493) and wasn't covered in the anime. Unless someone has read that, it makes their presence quite inexplicable.

[Sterling01]

To be fair though, that was only mentioned in one of the TIPS (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=575493#post575493) and wasn't covered in the anime. Unless someone has read that, it makes their presence quite inexplicable.
You know those TIPS were traslated for a reason. It's just being lazy if you complain about how something doesn't make sense and haven't looked at all the resources given.

[Archuka]

1. Those Traps were placed by Satoko as she was growing up. So yes it did take months for all the traps to be set

Touché, though it was not mentioned in the anime and you can't expect people to know that.

But again, certain traps required the kids to be there to set them off and they simply would not be suitable in real life. How come the Yamainu did not see Keichi and Rena move to their positions? If they were there before the Yamainu got there, how did they know they'd walk through that exact spot? This kind of stupidity is usually only seen in shows like Tom & Jerry.


2. Kasai knocked out both of them. So no the other Yamainu couldn't have shot him

No he didn't. They were both against the wall, then Kasai came in and somehow managed to kick the first one before he could shoot and then the second one just froze in place and didn't shoot even though he had several seconds to do so before Kasai shoved his shotgun into his face.

I suppose if you're really nice you could let this go by pulling out the bad animation card, but it was still bad.


3. These kids aren't what you call normal. As Satoko killed her parents, Mion forced her sister to get her fingernails pulled out, Keiichi shot at littile girls with a bb gun, Rena is well Rena, and don't even get me started on Rika and Hanyuu

That doesn't explain anything. They were still being chased by many men who intend to kill them in cold blood. It would take much more than a few tragedies and some bullying to become hardened against that.

And again, regardless of whether it can be credibly explained or not, it just looked off. They were cheery like they were playing games and it's simply not a reaction you'd expect out of anyone in a situation like that.


4. Yes the animation is bad sometimes, Though if you played the original games... let's just say it's an improvement
Yes, I know how the original games look. It's not a good excuse for bad animation, though.

Anyone defending Deen against these accusations is clearly not thinking objectively.

[Klashikari]

But again, certain traps required the kids to be there to set them off and they simply would not be suitable in real life. How come the Yamainu did not see Keichi and Rena move to their positions? If they were there before the Yamainu got there, how did they know they'd walk through that exact spot? This kind of stupidity is usually only seen in shows like Tom & Jerry.
The fact we don't see how they could get there doesn't mean it is impossible or not.
As seen with the slight glimpse of the surroundings, the yamainu were in the deep forest. There isn't any improbability for them to not notice kids who crawl around the dense bushes. And seriously, consdering how they are obviously not taking precaution with their advance and attire, there are much chances for keiichi and rena to see them from afar than the reversed ways.


No he didn't. They were both against the wall, then Kasai came in and somehow managed to kick the first one before he could shoot and then the second one just froze in place and didn't shoot even though he had several seconds to do so before Kasai shoved his shotgun into his face.

I suppose if you're really nice you could let this go by pulling out the bad animation card, but it was still bad.Several seconds? it only lasted one second after Kasai was wide open to them.
Again, the psychological card might be "convenient", but it is actually effective in reality as well: you are facing an angry yakuza armed with a shotgun loaded with SLUGS. The guy barged all of a sudden and knocked your only ally... I don't think you can obviously have the "instinct" to open fire as if nothing happened.
That doesn't explain anything. They were still being chased by many men who intend to kill them in cold blood. It would take much more than a few tragedies and some bullying to become hardened against that.

And again, regardless of whether it can be credibly explained or not, it just looked off. They were cheery like they were playing games and it's simply not a reaction you'd expect out of anyone in a situation like that.That is because they take the situation as a game because they actually know the terrain and their opponents. Their mindset is actually comparable to Minagoroshi-hen. The thing is they are actually figthting, but their spirit doesn't register the possible "horrible outcome" if they fail.
As shown in Minagoroshi-hen, they didn't have much stress and all fighting the 4 yamainu, despite they risked their life. It is only after Keiichi was shot down that the Harsh reality knocked them.

Considering each of their personality, it isn't even surprising that they are acting as it was like an afterschool activity.
Yes, I know how the original games look. It's not a good excuse for bad animation, though.

Anyone defending Deen against these accusations is clearly not thinking objectively.Higurashi was never stellar in animation, that's a given considering the nature and the budget allocated. Granted, it isn't as outraging as some works recently either anyway, especially that it is a very late episode. It isn't as whacky as it seems, and it is still vastly superior to season 1.

[MarthX]

No he didn't. They were both against the wall, then Kasai came in and somehow managed to kick the first one before he could shoot and then the second one just froze in place and didn't shoot even though he had several seconds to do so before Kasai shoved his shotgun into his face.

I suppose if you're really nice you could let this go by pulling out the bad animation card, but it was still bad

It's called intimidation. His size, the tone of his voice and the power of his shotgun all made them scared of him. Kasai said it himself, he has a higher body count than them, making him more experienced. Compared to him they're rookies. Kasai used to work with the Sokozakis and the Sonozakis are the yakuza.

That doesn't explain anything. They were still being chased by many men who intend to kill them in cold blood. It would take much more than a few tragedies and some bullying to become hardened against that.

And again, regardless of whether it can be credibly explained or not, it just looked off. They were cheery like they were playing games and it's simply not a reaction you'd expect out of anyone in a situation like that.

There is no right way to act. Some people act differently in situations. To them they love this kind of stuff, it gets their adrenaline pumping. Keiichi was having the time of his life during the duel with Rena in Tsumihoroboshi. In Minagoroshi they were the same way until Keiichi got shot because they foolishly attacked head on. This time they have the advantage because they had time to plan.

Yes, I know how the original games look. It's not a good excuse for bad animation, though.

Anyone defending Deen against these accusations is clearly not thinking objectively.

Compared to the first season, the animation and artwork is much better. If you think otherwise then you need to rewatch the first season to remember how bad it was.

[Sterling01]

That doesn't explain anything. They were still being chased by many men who intend to kill them in cold blood. It would take much more than a few tragedies and some bullying to become hardened against that.

And again, regardless of whether it can be credibly explained or not, it just looked off. They were cheery like they were playing games and it's simply not a reaction you'd expect out of anyone in a situation like that.

It's called intimidation. Keiichi was having the time of his life during the duel with Rena in Tsumihoroboshi. In Minagoroshi they were the same way until Keiichi got shot because they foolishly attacked head on. This time they have the advantage because they had time to plan.


Also in Watanagashi/Meakashi-hen Keiichi wasn't afraid that he was going die when "Mion" had him held down and was going to tourture him. He was more concerned about her health, he was even joking around with her. Also like others said in Minagoroshi it was only when Keiichi was killed that they started to freak out.

The Yamainu are just another club game game to them. Like how the dual with Rena was a club game to Keiichi.

[HashiriyaR32]

Why the hell did they not take the MP5SD's from the weapon rack just before they left the clinic? They could surely use some more firepower.

[Eryops]

You know those TIPS were traslated for a reason. It's just being lazy if you complain about how something doesn't make sense and haven't looked at all the resources given.
The creators of the show shouldn't expect the audience to be familiar with the source material to be able to understand a series. An offhand comment about how the traps that Satoko has spent years setting up are now being used would have sufficed.

Of course that would raise the question of why the Yamainu aren't aware that the mountain is full of traps. After all, they've been working in Hinamizawa for years and have been monitoring Rika, and by extension the shrine and the area surrounding it, so you'd expect them to have come across Satoko's traps in the past.

[BakaOnna]

Hahaha, some parts of this episode gave me a good laugh, especially the tone and replies Otonogi gave Takano when they failed. :heh:

It's so sad seeing such an excellent series end. I'm glad I was able to experience it since the first season aired. I had a fun time watching it while it lasted. :)

[Captain Spyro]

There, now I'm finally caught up to episode #23 of Kai. I can now comment in these threads.:heh:

I really didn't have too much to complain about in this episode. Wasn't perfect and a bit too silly in certain places, but it's not something to take too silly in certain parts. Overall, a solid 8.:)

Gotta say, I like Kasai and Tomitake a lot more than I did in the past.:D

[RWBladewing]

It has kinda bugged me that the main cast has gone out of their way to avoid killing or even injuring these members of a hostile group that is actively working to kill them and everyone in their village. I guess them seeing the whole thing like a club game makes this make more sense. I suppose it's probably better for them to avoid killing them and ending up with blood on their hands in the final world anyway, though I can't say I'd definitely do the same were I in their situation.

That aside it was a great episode, I also thought Otonogi's replies were great. His casual smile, shrug, "Mission failed" was hilarious.:heh: Kasai is also very awesome.

[ayukanon45]

What is wrong with the music?
If you think about it, the anime wouldn't go with the games music, as it sounds a little overly-sythetic.
The animes soundtrack pulls off what the scene gives off.
oh yeah, 10/10

[BakaOnna]

It has kinda bugged me that the main cast has gone out of their way to avoid killing or even injuring these members of a hostile group that is actively working to kill them and everyone in their village. I guess them seeing the whole thing like a club game makes this make more sense. I suppose it's probably better for them to avoid killing them and ending up with blood on their hands in the final world anyway, though I can't say I'd definitely do the same were I in their situation.

That aside it was a great episode, I also thought Otonogi's replies were great. His casual smile, shrug, "Mission failed" was hilarious.:heh: Kasai is also very awesome.
If they did kill the Yamainu, there's a high chance that someone will get Hinamizawa Syndrome. The whole point of Kai was why the group shouldn't kill. They become stressed, paranoid, and eventually fall victim to Hinamizawa Syndrome. Killing the Yamainu will not help to achieve anything.

[RWBladewing]

If they did kill the Yamainu, there's a high chance that someone will get Hinamizawa Syndrome. The whole point of Kai was why the group shouldn't kill. They become stressed, paranoid, and eventually fall victim to Hinamizawa Syndrome. Killing the Yamainu will not help to achieve anything.

Yeah, I get that and it's kinda what I meant by them not wanting to have blood on their hands, that they would develop that. I should have been clearer. It still seems a bit strange to me though and I think the situations are different; this is self-defense against someone who's shooting at you, not murdering an abusive uncle in cold blood. Though I guess that doesn't really matter as far as the Syndrome is concerned. It still seems like they could have at least captured some of them in Ep 22 though instead of just chasing them out of the house. Ah well, guess I am reading too much into it, it's a pretty minor thing and doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the series at all anyway.

[Matrim]

They're constantly breaking the mood with absurdities that have no place in an anime with a serious plot like Higurashi.

So true. The Yamainu are so useless that Takano might as well have saved her money and just bought a box of toy soldiers. The last arc is like a whole different anime from the Higurashi I grew to love. I am not even going to bother listing the "coincidences" and implausibilities in the plot any more as they are too many and if one can't see them while watching the anime no amount of convincing would change that. Let's just say there are fairy tales in which the way the good guys get to the happy end is way more plausible and feels less forced than in Higurashi.

Shion has been the only bright spot in the last two episodes.

[Proto]

Well yeah, this is supposed to be Higurashi's good end, and if you have played some Japanese visual novels you know that good ends tend to be a little in the convenient side. Enjoy the story for what it is: a reward for all the struggles the characters have gone through, so in this side luck is finally on their side. Of course even I, the endlessly optimistic guy who only look on the bright side thinks that it could have been handled a little better, but hey, I think at how this is the orginal author first work and remember to cut him some slack, he will get better with endings on the future so for the moment let's give him the praise he deserves.

If you feel a little more sadistic than that then get the PS2 game and Miotsukushi-hen :)

[Aethos]

I have to agree. It's sad seeing this series come to an end. It's been a fun ride and to be honest I wish they'd go into a season 3 with Saikoroshi-hen and the PS2 arcs, but oh well...

[lubczyk]

I don't see what everyone's complaining about. Of course there are plot devices everywhere and logical fallacies and such. Sheezh!!! It happens in Shakespeare and Hollywood movies all the time. You're just being too nit picky to enjoy it. I've enjoyed the humor intertwined in the serious moments. It prevents from the audience from becoming numb to the tension.

Everything's a cliche people, get over it.

I give this episode a 10 out of 10.

The series has been a roller coaster ride for me and I can't wait for the finale.

[Klashikari]

Why the hell did they not take the MP5SD's from the weapon rack just before they left the clinic? They could surely use some more firepower.
Because this weapon isn't used by the yamainu men, which would be obviously a problem to infiltrate.
Also, Akasaka doesn't know how to wield machine guns.

Of course that would raise the question of why the Yamainu aren't aware that the mountain is full of traps. After all, they've been working in Hinamizawa for years and have been monitoring Rika, and by extension the shrine and the area surrounding it, so you'd expect them to have come across Satoko's traps in the past.
Monitoring Rika doesn't mean they are that close to her. Furthermore, there are obviously instances they cannot tail her (other stuff around, certitute the target won't got anywhere else etc).
Finally, Satoko is doing her SERIOUS TRAPS business only on very rare occasions, and the "mine field" in the forest is one of them. IIRC, she didn't show this to many people nor several times.
What is wrong with the music?
If you think about it, the anime wouldn't go with the games music, as it sounds a little overly-sythetic.
The animes soundtrack pulls off what the scene gives off.
oh yeah, 10/10
Sorry, but Dai's track are nowhere near of "overly synthetic"...

[Cheezy]

I like the little comedy bits that was thrown around in this episode. It's the last arc and a good ending after all.

"I'm sorry but I can't serve you a cup of tea in this mountain"
Hah

[ImpulseRAven]

I like the little comedy bits that was thrown around in this episode. It's the last arc and a good ending after all.

"I'm sorry but I can't serve you a cup of tea in this mountain"
Hah

I thinks it was more of his resentment towards her being his commanding officer and expecting to be treated like a princess on the battlefield.

[Klashikari]

^ indeed, this is the reason why Okonogi does snarky jokes about her being the "princess", and dating with Tomitake.
Takano is obviously completely ignorant about battlefield and such, just conceit and ordering stuff because of her "generous" payement towards the yamainu.

Considering how she is using them as tools and she don't exactly care much of what they do as long there is result, no wonder why Okonogi is quite nonchalant.

[Sorrow-K]

It's the rapid mood changes that get to me. When we're at this stage of a dramatic series, you don't want to see a bunch of supposedly trained military men treading logs in a comical fashion. I'm so disappointed that, when a series has done so well with tone and atmosphere for two seasons, that the penultimate episode would have almost none.

I have no qualms about the plot (other than the numerous conveniences in this arc, but I've swallowed those, since one can explain them with the probabilistic nature of the universe), but the execution in this ep was, at stages, really bad. Some of those scenes with the Yamainu were really tacky.

I'm a trained mercenary, lol. I'm gonna run away with the radio screaming like a girl. :rolleyes:

[Sterling01]

Is it just me or did the first season not have Satoshi saying "muu" I can't remember if it did or not

[Klashikari]

Not it didn't have any of these.
That said, Satoshi's screentime was utterly short in S1. At least this mentions proves they are trying to not drop too many details.

[Sterling01]

Not it didn't have any of these.
That said, Satoshi's screentime was utterly short in S1. At least this mentions proves they are trying to not drop too many details.

Though it is kinda out of the blue

[Matrim]

It happens in Shakespeare and Hollywood movies all the time.

So? Maybe the naysayers don't like the typical Hollywood plots either, and as we all know Shakepeare has other qualities apart from plot intricasy. And there are different degrees of contrivances and coincidences, off the top of my head I can not even remember a single book or movie where so many things happened in a perfectly convenient fashion for the protagonist(s). More than half a dozen armed trained soldiers running away from a single unarmed man? Even the likes of Commando and Rambo would have trouble matching this feat... And what's more this in total contrast to previous chapters in which the Yamainu and Takano were capable people who achieved their objectives every time (against weaker opposition, granted, but still) bar Watanagashi/Meakashi. And the retarded mood changes are the icing of the cake. Say whatever you like about the past of the Hinamizawa club members, for me it's non-sense they were calmer than a Stalingad veteran would be - and all that in a battle against enemies who are supposed to be much more numerous and professionals armed to the teeth to boot. They were more nervous in the bloody water pistol fights once upon a time, this does not make any sense whatsover unless we assume they were too retarded to understand the extent of the danger and the odds against them.

other than the numerous conveniences in this arc, but I've swallowed those, since one can explain them with the probabilistic nature of the universe

In what universe, may I ask there is any chance whatsoever of at least 8 people armed with firearms running away from one who is unarmed? And btw, these very same people had just overpowered opponents armed with Kalashnikov mere minutes ago. Of course, you can say that there is a probability of trained mercenaries all forgetting they actually had firearms in the very same moment but we might as well call that an impossibility. We are not talking about improbable things happening agaisnt all odds, we are talking about impossible things happening.

[Sinestra]

Good tatics never underestimate your opponet especially kids who know the surrounding the area. Takano was just plain stupid this time she marched off into the woods not even thinking about terrain or the fact that her enemy was not in fact trying to flee but lure them into a trap. Its an age old tactic look like your running lure your enemy to groud of your choosing and engage them there. Our happy band of freedom fighters did things the right way. Not only did Takano march into a trap but she left he base and back exposed. Allowing the infiltration into the lab another mistake she Tamitake alive instead of killing him her self or having it done right away. Sloppy i tell you just plain sloppy the only thing she did right was to block off all roads in and out of the city.

Takano is loosing her grip on her soldiers and it looks like they are starting to think about their own survival that just might mean leaving Takano to the wovles. Satoshi condition was as i expected just because he was alive did not mean he was well and he wont be untill a cure has been found. So once the syndrome takes a hold you have 2 choices death or statis. But seeing Shion smile again was a joy she finally found what she had been looking for. Even though its not really premise of the show i would love to see KeiichixMion and SatoshixShion. These parings would bridge any gaps. A marriage between SatoshixShion would heal wounds about the dam war. Also, Keiichi has the stones to deal with the Sonosaki's and he and Mion have already proven they are a great team.

Im looking forward to the final episode but im sad to that after all this time its finally over. That is untill the movie comes out I cant wait to see that. Hopefully it will be as good as the live action Jigoku Shojo thats being subbed now at least imo.

[RWBladewing]

It's the rapid mood changes that get to me. When we're at this stage of a dramatic series, you don't want to see a bunch of supposedly trained military men treading logs in a comical fashion. I'm so disappointed that, when a series has done so well with tone and atmosphere for two seasons, that the penultimate episode would have almost none.

I have no qualms about the plot (other than the numerous conveniences in this arc, but I've swallowed those, since one can explain them with the probabilistic nature of the universe), but the execution in this ep was, at stages, really bad. Some of those scenes with the Yamainu were really tacky.

I'm a trained mercenary, lol. I'm gonna run away with the radio screaming like a girl. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I think this is mainly what my issue stems from as well. If they can find a non-lethal solution to dealing with the Yamainu, great, by all means use it. But it'd be nice if it still felt like a dramatic life and death struggle. Moments like Kasai forcing the guy to surrender with the shotgun in his face and the end of the previous arc where the cast managed to ambush several Yamainu with bats and stun guns were believable and great dramatic moments. Managing to flawlessly wipe out an opposing army using a little girl's scary voice and some funny traps reminiscent of the movie Home Alone just contrasts so sharply with that. Oh well, I am done nitpicking now and am still looking very forward to ep 24.

[Klashikari]

In what universe, may I ask there is any chance whatsoever of at least 8 people armed with firearms running away from one who is unarmed? And btw, these very same people had just overpowered opponents armed with Kalashnikov mere minutes ago. Of course, you can say that there is a probability of trained mercenaries all forgetting they actually had firearms in the very same moment but we might as well call that an impossibility. We are not talking about improbable things happening agaisnt all odds, we are talking about impossible things happening.
As far as I can remember, these "8 armed people" fleeing an unarmed one is quite erroneous. First, they didn't fled because of Akasaka, but because Shion and Kasai popped with their Kalashnikov and the Shotgun.
Furthermore, as explained on the other thread, as they were outside, being armed or not doesn't matter because they simply cannot draw their weapons, as not only they can hit Rika by a stray bullet in the midst of the confrontation, but also drawing out the police with the fuss.
OTOH, the defending side don't actually mind if the police barges around. See the difference? It isn't impossibility.

feel free to call it bullshit again, but i believe you are expecting way too much because of mere words and conception like "yamainu = elite shock troopers".


on another note: here is the usual stuff:
Episode 23 : Analysis (BGM uploaded now!) (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/12/17/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-23-analysis-thoughts-and-random-comments/)
Feel free to post over there (not in AS) any BGM request and such. I will see if i can do that for this one or for the final "analysis" entry.

[Matrim]

Furthermore, as explained on the other thread, as they were outside, being armed or not doesn't matter because they simply cannot draw their weapons, as not only they can hit Rika by a stray bullet in the midst of the confrontation, but also drawing out the police with the fuss.

So they'd rather run away and give a great chance of Akasaka and co to actually alert the police themselves than risk someone to hear a shot? Not to mention we know they have and can use silencers. OK...And these are the same guys who have no qualms about killing policemen, why should they care that much about the remote chance that a policeman might come and check? When someone shows awesome fighting moves agaisnt your comrades, the natural reaction of everyone who is not braindead would be to draw their weapon and use it - think Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. :)

First, they didn't fled because of Akasaka, but because Shion and Kasai popped with their Kalashnikov and the Shotgun.

Yes, and these two getting their weapons back was certainly totally normal and not just another case of convenient "coincidence"/retardedness of the yamainu. I am so convinced now...

feel free to call it bullshit again, but i believe you are expecting way too much because of mere words and conception like "yamainu = elite shock troopers".

I am expecting some consistency, feel free to call this too much, if you will.

[Sterling01]

Allowing the infiltration into the lab another mistake she Tamitake alive instead of killing him her self or having it done right away.

The Thing is that Takano really doesn't want to kill Tommy because unlike what the anime has shown those two share a very close relationship

Takano is loosing her grip on her soldiers and it looks like they are starting to think about their own survival that just might mean leaving Takano to the wovles.

That isn't the only thing Takano is loosing

Even though its not really premise of the show i would love to see KeiichixMion and SatoshixShion. These parings would bridge any gaps. A marriage between SatoshixShion would heal wounds about the dam war. Also, Keiichi has the stones to deal with the Sonosaki's and he and Mion have already proven they are a great team.

Even though I'm a fan of KeiichixMion. The only one right for Satoshi is Keiichi, they have a alot in common :heh:

[Klashikari]

So they'd rather run away and give a great chance of Akasaka and co to actually alert the police themselves than risk someone to hear a shot? Not to mention we know they have and can use silencers. OK...And these are the same guys who have no qualms about killing policemen, why should they care that much about the remote chance that a policeman might come and check? When someone shows awesome fighting moves agaisnt your comrades, the natural reaction of everyone who is not braindead would be to draw their weapon and use it - think Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.
1) If they can actually secure the access to any police contact, it wouldn't be surprising, at least for me. And episode 23 has shown they already have other units dispatched here and there. Retreating like this isn't much an issue but heh.
2) As far as I can see, using silencers doesn't mean you are wandering with these all the time. Now if you want to argue about this matter, do so. But I don't think the fact you don't bring these all the time is a true inconsistency, whatever.
3) Because they could simply hide the corpse of Kuma, while he was isolated...?
if the policement barge around while they heard some random gunfire, the disappearance would be obvious. Such things would be hardly possible to cover, and it would probably lead to an investigation, whatever the disaster happens or not.
4) Please, the sequence didn't even lasted 10 seconds before Okonogi's turn. They were dashing altogether, the five of them, with a very tiny pause between each other as soon as Okonogi ordered them to charge.
Usual thought: 5 guys are enough to overwhelm a single guy, which was their mistake (well, who can blame them, since they could take down beefy tomitake? huho)
Expecting prime and flawless reactions all the time seems also a bit over the top.


Yes, and these two getting their weapons back was certainly totally normal and not just another case of convenient "coincidence"/retardedness of the yamainu. I am so convinced now...I won't argue about the "miracle way how kasai pulled his "unconscious stunt" thing. I was more talking abou the "akasaka's issue".
I won't disagree about this inconsistency of this part, but that's what you can get with minimal time. This doesn't excuse the matter, but it is at least not in the "way impossible" realm as you claim.

But well, I guess it is like usual disbelief and all.

[Matrim]

I won't disagree about this inconsistency of this part, but that's what you can get with minimal time. This doesn't excuse the matter, but it is at least not in the "way impossible" realm as you claim.It's nigh on impossible from my point of view as someone just watches the anime, has not played the game and doesn't know that this or that was not shown. Seems to me that half of the time I raise an objection the answer is "well, it made sense in the game". Great for the game but doesn't make the anime any better, does it?

If they can actually secure the access to any police contact, it wouldn't be surprising, at least for me.And how do they know the Sonozakis or someone else in the village don't have a radio trasmitter? Our guys could also, you know start burning the forest alerting people in Okinomiya. And if no one in Hinamizawa can contact the police why should the Yamainu care a passer-by might see them to begin with? BTW, how many witnesses who just happen to pass through would one expect in a private property owned by an yakuza family?

As far as I can see, using silencers doesn't mean you are wandering with these all the time.So according to you they are very, very concerned that they might blow their cover, we know they have silencers available but for some inexplicable reason chose not to use them. OK, that's very plausible indeed...

Because they could simply hide the corpse of Kuma, while he was isolated...?And they wouldn't be able to hide the corpse of the hyphotetical policeman who might come to check what the shots were because...?

4) Please, the sequence didn't even lasted 10 seconds before Okonogi's turn. They were rushing altogether, the five of them, with a very tiny pause between each other. Expecting prime and flawless reactions all the time seems also a bit over the top.Expecting them to be absolute retards however seems to be good taste for some reason. And let's see - they are hit by Akasaka, they fall on the ground, they see they can't match his skills in hand to hand combat, yet none of them bothers to even try using his gun - not only to shoot but also to possibly threaten him. Yes, it all makes sense, surely.

[Klashikari]

It's nigh on impossible from my point of view as someone just watches the anime, has not played the game and doesn't know that this or that was not shown. Seems to me that half of the time I raise an objection the answer is "well, it made sense in the game". Great for the game but doesn't make the anime any better, does it?
It doesn't even need the "game" knowledge, as one can figure how the pace is kinda erratic in the second season.
That said, no, I don't think the adaptation should have any better or lower credits with comparison with the game (actually, comparison is lowering the anime worth points). As far as the explanations go, they were aimed for the original script, as some recents critics were like ranting for the script itself.

It definitely doesn't make the anime better if you want me to say that.

And how do they know the Sonozakis or someone else in the village don't have a radio trasmitter? Our guys could also, you know start burning the forest alerting people in Okinomiya. And if no one in Hinamizawa can contact the police why should the Yamainu care a passer-by might see them to begin with? BTW, how many witnesses who just happen to pass through would one expect in a private property owned by an yakuza family?
The yamainu worked several years as forestmen and communication people. How it is actually surprising for them to know the transmission devices and all?
Granted, lat's say the sonozaki could have some private transmition device... how they can be able to contact someone? At random just they could end on someone who was conviently on the same channel...?

Burning the forest... good idea, what about bringing more trouble on the area? (you actually need to get out and set the fire THEN get back in safety) And how can you sure a fire can be seen "like that" ? What if... what if, indeed.

If the yamainu doesn't pay attention to the passerby, how they would actually explain the disappearance of this person?
On the disaster, it can be used, but what about a person, who is most likely supposed to be at the festival?
This cannot be applied on the club members, since they are known to be with Rika who "is supposed to be sick at home". So they can eliminate them and keep them hidden. While any passerby would be problematic due the event of this day.

So according to you they are very, very concerned that they might blow their cover, we know they have silencers available but for some inexplicable reason chose not to use them. OK, that's very plausible indeed...
Actually, if you don't expect to be attacked from the outside, isn't it enough?
That said it doesn't resolve the issue with straw bullet etc.
And they wouldn't be able to hide the corpse of the hyphotetical policeman who might come to check what the shots were because...?
Okay... let's imagine the situation:
the whole police squadron is set around the permieter of the festival, along with other patrolling here and there. What would happen if any of them notice the sound? they would actually be more than 1. Also, they would report the incident, as a gunfire is more than alarming.
Meanwhile, Kuma didn't because he didn't have any clue what the guy was doing etc.

Fair enough if the hide the said policeman, but what about the gunfire report, and the others policement then?

Expecting them to be absolute retards however seems to be good taste for some reason. And let's see - they are hit by Akasaka, they fall on the ground, they see they can't match his skills in hand to hand combat, yet none of them bothers to even try using his gun - not only to shoot but also to possibly threaten him. Yes, it all makes sense, surely.
Ah surely they have the time to draw out their weapons. You surely think they were witnessing the dual with okonogi or something?
No, most of them got hit around the head and such. Should I remind you how straight blow on some area (like the chin or the frontal area) can lead to some concussion effect?
I don't think you can stand up just after you were hit directly. What's more is the fact the whole deal lasted... like what? 1-2 minutes? Do we actually see them recovering completely before Shion and Kasai arrive? (as far as I can see, Okonogi was barely standing compared to the rest).
Again, I don't see how these guys could actually wield their firearms in such situation, or actually not "properly".

Maa, i guess further argument won't hold water, as we don't see the same inconsistencies so, it is a moot point for each side.

[Matrim]

I don't think you can stand up just after you were hit directly. What's more is the fact the whole deal lasted... like what? 1-2 minutes? Do we actually see them recovering completely before Shion and Kasai arrive? (as far as I can see, Okonogi was barely standing compared to the rest).Well, I am no doctor but they did run away (It wasn't explicitely shown but judging by Okonogi and thier comrades this is the most likely scenario) without being carried by someone just minutes after getting hit, so obviously they did not suffer concussion or any other incapacitating injury.

Granted, lat's say the sonozaki could have some private transmition device... how they can be able to contact someone? It can't be that hard...the military uses radio, after all. :heh:

who is most likely supposed to be at the festival?Thank you for reminding me - during the festival which gather basically the entire population of the village in one place. Inside the private property of an yakuza boss. And these idiots are still afraid someone might see or hear their guns more than about letting tons of witnesses escape? Only absolute retards would do that.

OK, enough, I should never have started this argument in the first place as no one will be convinced. I just wanted to make a distinction between "improbable but not that unlikely if events repeat themselves a hundred or so times" and nigh on impossible.

[MarthX]

Talk about over analyzing everything.

No form of media is completely realistic.

[Klashikari]

Well, I am no doctor but they did run away (It wasn't explicitely shown but judging by Okonogi and thier comrades this is the most likely scenario) without being carried by someone just minutes after getting hit, so obviously they did not suffer concussion or any other incapacitating injury.
What I actually mean is the effect of such concussion. it might be not as severe as it is usually, but such direct blows Akasaka dealt to them is enough to make them unable to do anything for 1-2 minute. This kind of blow isn't something you say "ouch" and then stay straight like rambo. They are not putting them unconscious but pretty much KO.

They are certainly not completely incapacitated, but it stalled enough time, as they would obviously try to assault him if they could.

It can't be that hard...the military uses radio, after all. :heh:
What i actually meant is the problem with... who will they reach? Random channel? I don't actually think you can contact blindly the police or so. As far as their "false job could inform them, and what Mion and Kasai said when they were in siege in episode 22, the sonozaku don't own any transmitter or so. (until you count the talkie walkie, of course)

Thank you for reminding me - during the festival which gather basically the entire population of the village in one place. Inside the private property of an yakuza boss. And these idiots are still afraid someone might see or hear their guns more than about letting tons of witnesses escape? Only absolute retards would do that.
Should I remind you that the Sonozaki mainhouse is kinda close to the Furude Shrine, therefore, where the festival is taking place. From where they are, they could see and heard without trouble the fireworks at 10AM.
Also don't forget there are police patrol on the main road between Hinamizawa and Okinimiya during this day.

[Matrim]

Klashikari, I thought you said you weren't going to bother with me and my complaints any more?

Should I remind you that the Sonozaki mainhouse is kinda close to the Furude Shrine, therefore, where the festival is taking place.And you still claim they had a good reason not to use silencers?!?

No form of media is completely realistic.So we should just accept any and all plotholes because of that?

The point is that prior to the last arc the Yamainu and Takano were respectable villains who had been shown to possess some abilities. Now they are just clowns whom I wouldn't trust to even remember their own names, let alone achieve something. There was once a sense of urgency and danger. No such thing whatsover in this arc apart from a few minutes in that underground well. I think having absolute retards for villains makes the achievement of the protagonists seem more annoying than commendable but maybe that's just me.

[Klashikari]

Klashikari, I thought you said you weren't going to bother with me and my complaints any more?
Bother? No i feel discussion like this can be informative for anyone anyway, as long it isn't going into full circle and such. it is kinda what is drawing right now, but I don't think we are battle with tooth and nails, aren't we? :heh:
And you still claim they had a good reason not to use silencers?!?
I never said they had "reason". Rather their circumstance as "not expecting any reinforcement, so no need to have fun with silencers" can be valid.
Aside of this, the stray bullet is still a problem.

NOW i think we already have fun with our respective arguments, so I believe I don't need to repeat them since they are all covered (no sarcasm whatsoever, of course).

So we should just accept any and all plotholes because of that?
I agree with you: because you cannot be overly realist doesn't mean you can go with fantaisies. it is like using a uncontrollable circumstance as an excuse to do anything and everything.
But meh, As far as I can see, the "inconsistencies" here and there aren't THAT giant, but that's a matter of opinion anyway.

I guess i shall not annoy you anymore for good.

[BakaOnna]

Talk about over analyzing everything.

No form of media is completely realistic.
Agreed. I mean, we have this time reset thing that no one seems to have a huge, nitpicky problem with. But once we come to small little details like, 'why aren't they using their guns!' and 'why is it that they're falling for these traps [that are hidden in the mountains, which are the club members' best weapon; plus the fact that, they're, well, hidden in mountains.]" people complain. :rolleyes:

Granted, the time reset thing is simply a way of telling the story. But still, geez, getting worked up over anime realism. :rolleyes:

[Archuka]

Agreed. I mean, we have this time reset thing that no one seems to have a huge, nitpicky problem with. But once we come to small little details like, 'why aren't they using their guns!' and 'why is it that they're falling for these traps [that are hidden in the mountains, which are the club members' best weapon; plus the fact that, they're, well, hidden in mountains.]" people complain. :rolleyes:

But those are completely different. The time loop is a supernatural phenomenon and is thus not limited by logic.

It's like arguing that the large energy beam the aliens used in Independence Day was unrealistic because humans don't have one.

Likewise, even in a fantasy movie, you expect people to get killed when struck by swords or when scorched by dragon breath. Yes, it's fantasy and no, there are no dragons, but we still have the human + sharp edge and human + ball of fire scenarios where the expected outcome is serious injury or death, not knights treading on logs.

[Matrim]

Yes, no one has a problem with the reset because it is the premise of the story and you don't argue with supernatural plots.

The issue here is not realism at all it's consistency. Some of my favourite series are as realistic as someone winning the Nobel prize and an Academy Award for inventing hot water.

I guess i shall not annoy you anymore for good.

No need to go that far, I was mostly looking for an excuse to stop raining on everyone's parade but looking back towards the points you and me presented I think we made some progress and this particular scene now doesn't seem quite as ridiculous as when I first saw it.

[Kanzaki Urumi]

when its going too well, especially i am used to seeing them fail, i cant help but the question Yamainu's ability. All of them look like amateurs =-= The pony tail guy can still smile after getting owned by Akasaka lol, if i was him i would be fuming. They got to hire Lelouch to command the troops. Our heroes have tactical knowledge of the place but trained soldiers would at least had done their research anyway and have the ability to anticipate traps.

Next ep, final, man this sucks...

[MarthX]

Normally the Yamainu plan everything out and work at their own pace. This time they don't have that luxury. Nomura is getting impatient and the Banken will eventually make their move.

[kingsky123]

Yes, no one has a problem with the reset because it is the premise of the story and you don't argue with supernatural plots.

The issue here is not realism at all it's consistency. Some of my favourite series are as realistic as someone winning the Nobel prize and an Academy Award for inventing hot water.



No need to go that far, I was mostly looking for an excuse to stop raining on everyone's parade but looking back towards the points you and me presented I think we made some progress and this particular scene now doesn't seem quite as ridiculous as when I first saw it.

actually the problem is this story came form a novel , well a visual novel thing (basically a book with songs) and when ryukishi07 wrote the parts he didnt expect it to get animated, either that or the animators just basically directly did some parts of the the book -> anime. they should like tweak it to fit but they didnt.

[Animaker9]

Well, I'm a little late here... a little more and I would be replying in the thread for ep. 24 but at least I've read al the comments and... I think that everyone is drowning in a glass of water, I saw the episode, I felt the suspense of the infiltration, I felt the sorrow and hope of Shion, I felt the satisfaction of watching the Yamainu falling at the hands of Satoko's traps and enjoyed the radio transmition of Hanyuu and Kei, but I didn't felt nothing out of place, or any of the stuff that you see... maybe I've seen to many animes like love hina, Inuyasha and Haruhi Suzumiya and I'm used to that "GIGANTIC" flaws and "UNREALISTIC" events... I think that you are overreacting a little, because I finished the episode with a smile and the pride to see the prelude of the end of this anime that stole countless sleep hours and brain capacity from me.

By the way, I felt that the rolling logs sceen pretty funny:D

[raikage]

Talk about over analyzing everything.

No form of media is completely realistic.

Well... no, it's not, but Higurashi, at least at the beginning, seemed like a more 'realistic,' no fantasy elements and no sci-fi type show.

Admittedly, over time, the realism has gone down a bit (Rika being aware of world-resets, the existence of Hanyuu, and a still-doesn't-make-much-sense Queen Carrier local disease) but now, we're talking about a paramilitary force being taken down with Home Alone level antics.

There's nothing wrong with "GIGANTIC flaws and UNREALISTIC events" (not picking on you, just seems as good a term as any) had the series been pushed that way from the start. There is something wrong with switching it up in the very last chapter; to set the rule of "generally realistic world" and then break that rule just because you need to get to the end of the story with all the main characters intact.

And PS: If Satoko did indeed set all those traps over the course of months and years, it's very irresponsible of her. ;)

After all, had someone gotten caught in her snare, or fallen into a pit and can't get out -- well, unless she goes to check the entire mountain often, wouldn't those guys starve to death?

[Eryops]

And PS: If Satoko did indeed set all those traps over the course of months and years, it's very irresponsible of her. ;)

After all, had someone gotten caught in her snare, or fallen into a pit and can't get out -- well, unless she goes to check the entire mountain often, wouldn't those guys starve to death?
There's a reason everyone avoids that mountain and children are warned to stay the hell away from it. :)

[Animaker9]

well, you are right raikage, I thought that higurashi was quite realistic and stuff, I may sound like some kind of freak or like Haruhi Suzumiya but i think that reality is boring, I like my animes a little bit unreal, If those fantasy elementes weren't there, the characters would die and they would stay dead, I like reality and all but in anime... I like the freaky syndromes, the gods, the trap masters and the kids defeating the trained soldiers.

Because in real life, I don't think that the could reach a happy ending and I'm sick of those sad or melancholic endings...

Hail the GIGANTIC flaws and UNREALISTIC events!!

[June 1983]

Oh my god, this argument is so BORING. If I had nothing better to do than argue how UNREALISTIC an anime that features characters with turquoise hair was for four or five pages of a forum thread, I'd just hang myself.

[Animaker9]

well I think that those words closed the case, Amen brother!:)

[Proto]

Oh my god, this argument is so BORING. If I had nothing better to do than argue how UNREALISTIC an anime that features characters with turquoise hair was for four or five pages of a forum thread, I'd just hang myself.

I think the point of this discussion isn't really to evaluate how realistic orr unrealistic Higurashi can be, but rather we are discussing about how self consistant is Higurashi with its own realism parameters it has established in past arcs.

[June 1983]

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd132/raytan7585/Anime/Sayonara%20Zetsubou%20Sensei/interdespairzm6.gif

[Proto]

There are plenty of threads, boards and forum whose discussions might be more suitable to your tastes. Nobody is really forcing you to stay here and watch.

[Matrim]

If I had nothing better to do than argue how UNREALISTIC an anime that features characters with turquoise hair was for four or five pages of a forum thread, I'd just hang myself.Seriously, when after tens of posts of explanation about the difference between realism and consistency some people still have no clue about what we have been arguing about, the situation is quite exasperating indeed. Maybe I should really kill myself?[/heavy sarcasm] Also, maybe we should just close the forum or delete all posts which don't praise Higurashi, after all praise is not a waste of time (even if one posts praise all day) while criticism is a sign of having no life apparently. Just tell me how exactly is the discussion in the last pages more boring than one poster saying "man, this episode rocked" and another one adding "Yes, it sure ruled!"? I really want to know.


There's nothing wrong with "GIGANTIC flaws and UNREALISTIC events" (not picking on you, just seems as good a term as any) had the series been pushed that way from the start. There is something wrong with switching it up in the very last chapter; to set the rule of "generally realistic world" and then break that rule just because you need to get to the end of the story with all the main characters intact.Exactly.

[Lost-Wisdom]

Hanyuu's God voice is amaziing.