[Manga] Chapter 382 Discussion

[xris]

Welcome to the weekly manga chapter discussion thread. This thread is created early to discuss spoilers and speculation about the upcoming chapter.

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http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/sazelyt/Naruto382.jpg
The image shows Naruto's mother and the end of chapter with Jiraiya's last words regarding Naruto.

[reloaded]

For some reason some people get excited about having first post :confused: God knows why

[The Chaos]

I hope The Chapter About Itachi....I wonder what's Gonna happened Between Itachi and Sasuke ...

[EoT]

Well here are 2 spoilers, not really revealing at all.., 2nd one seems interesting but is very vague.

ジライヤはナルトに後を託して崩れ落ちた
Jiraiya entrusts the rest to Naruto and collapses

ガマ父ちゃんを伝達役にして
He has Pa-toad to act as messenger

思えばジライヤの生涯はロクな人生じゃなかった
Seems that Jiraiya's life wasn't what he hoped for

モテない（振られ続け・・・）友に裏切られ・・弟子と師も守れず・・・
Unpopular (getting continuously dumped...), betrayed by friends... unable to protect both students and teacher...

ナルトの名付け親はジライヤです
Jiraiya's Naruto's god-father


Jiraiya hit by black rope
Pain peform seal
Boy with black hair appear
Jiraiya awaken with Rin'negan "lets hunt the kyuubi"

[Sazelyt]

The whole chapter of One Piece will be out, there is no single credible spoiler on Naruto. A disappointing week in that aspect. Let's hope the chapter will be surprising enough to overcome that...

And, if we use Sasuke-Oro fight as a reference (meaning excessive delays), the current spoilers seem to quick to finalize the fight.

[Mists]

Jiaraya becomes one of the paths of pain. Pa frog escapes.....Pain basically shrugs is shoulders and is like "Well now, onto the Kyubi"

[Medalist]

No.382 『終わり……！！』

場面は綱手
綱手『………！！』
シズネ『どうかしましたか？』
綱手『………』
何か言いかけたみたいだけど声にならず
シズネ『？』
綱手『……久しぶりに賭でもしに行くか…』

自来也が五人に刺されるシーンから
自来也『ぐッ！！』
そら豆『！！』
そら豆が螺旋丸でぶっ飛ばされる
弥彦ペイン『無駄だ』
自来也の背中には５つのヒジキが刺さっている
そら豆立ち上がる
そら豆『……』
自来也『ぐあッ！！(チャクラを圧縮しきれない……)』
頭『今抜いてやる！』
自来也『いや……自分はどうやらここまでのようです………』
頭『……』
自来也『それに自分の選択は……もう終わりました……』
頭『自来也ちゃん……』
自来也『最後まで付き合ってくれて……ありがとうございました…』
弥彦『………』
自来也『……あと…』
自来也が頭に何か言っている
頭『分かった』
弥彦ペイン『会話はそこまでだ……』
ペインが頭に向かってヒジキ槍で攻撃しようとする
しかし自来也が背中で守る
自来也『……頭…！』
頭『あぁ……』
頭がドロン
弥彦ペイン『情報だけは残したか……』
自来也『ペイン……お前は……』
弥彦ペイン『もう終わりだ』
印を結ぶ弥彦ペイン
自来也『ぐっ……！？』
前のめりに倒れる自来也

真っ暗な空間に自来也が浮いている
自来也の前には黒い髪の男が浮いている
自来也『………お前は…』
輪廻眼が見える
自来也『長門か…？』
長門『………』
輪廻眼のアップ
自来也『そうか……そういうことか』

倒れている自来也を囲むように立っているペイン
弥彦ペイン『……』
自来也の目が開く
目は輪廻眼
自来也『さて……九尾を狩りに行くか』

Translation Credit: Kumanri on Nf

No. 382: The End...!!

Scene @ Tsunade

Tsunade: ..........!!
Shizune: What's the matter?
Tsunade: ......
She looks as if she wanted to say something but no words came out.
Shizune: ?
Tsunade: ....it's been a long while since things turn out the same as my bet...

Scene where Jiraiya was stabbed by the five.
Jiraiya: Urghh!!
Beanhead: !!
Beanhead was hit by Rasengan and he flew off.
Yahiko Pain: It's futile.
Jiraiya's back was pierced by 5 of those "seaweeds" (the black rope thingy).
Beanhead stood up.
Beanhead: ...
Jiraiya: Gwaahh!! (I cannot compress the chakra fully...)
Head: Draw it out now!
Jiraiya: No...it seems like it's the end for me here...
Head: ...
Jiraiya: Moreover, my choice...is finally over...
Head: Jiraiya chan...
Jiraiya: You kept me company till the end...I give my thanks...
Yahiko: ...
Jiraiya: ...following that...
Jiraiya said something to Head.
Head: I understand.
Yahiko Pain: The conversation ends here....
Pain was going to aim an attack at Head using the seaweed spear.
However, Jiraiya shielded it with his back.
Jiraiya: ....Head...!
Head: Ahh...
Head went off.
Yahiko Pain: Only the information is left....
Jiraiya: Pain...you are...
Yahiko Pain: It's the end.
Yahiko Pain forms a handseal.
Jiraiya: Ku....!?
Jiraiya fell to the front.

Jiraiya floats in a very dark space.
In front of Jiraiya floats a boy with black hair.
Jiraiya: ......you are...
Rin'negan can be seen.
Jiraiya: are you Nagato...?
Nagato: .....
Rin'negan looks up.
Jiraiya: I see...so that's what happened.

Pains surrounded the fallen Jiraiya.
Yahiko Pain: ....
Jiraiya opened his eyes.
The eyes are Rin'negan.
Jiraiya: Ok...let's go hunt the Kyuubi, shall we?


It seems so unlikely yet it could make sense. I just hope the Itachi/Sasuke plot will move forward.

ジライヤはナルトに後を託して崩れ落ちた
自来也把之后的事情托付给鸣人，然后坠落了
Jiraya said the mission which against evil laid on Naruto,then dead
ガマ父ちゃんを伝達役にして
蟾蜍老爹担任传达的使命
frog pa sent infomarions
思えばジライヤの生涯はロクな人生じゃなかった
想一想，自来也的一生并不安乐幸福
Jiraya lived an unhappy lifeモテない（振られ続け・・・）友に裏切られ・・弟子と師も守れず・・・
不断被抛弃，被朋友背叛，保护不了弟子和师傅
He always discard from his friends, and he can not protect his Sensei and students
ナルトの名付け親はジライヤです
给鸣人取名字的就是自来也
the name "Naruto" named by Jiraya

[shankss]

Pains surrounded the fallen Jiraiya.
Yahiko Pain: ....
Jiraiya opened his eyes.
The eyes are Rin'negan.
Jiraiya: Ok...let's go hunt the Kyuubi, shall we?



ALLRIGHT BOYZZ LETS GO HAVE SOME DRINKZ LOL!

would make much more sense :D

-Also I grow tired of those :

Pein: ...........
Jiraiya: Pein.....YOU.....? *bamff /end of chapter*

Next eposide:
Pein: die..........
Jiraiya: can it be.......Pein......YOU??? *bamff /end of chapter*

Next Eposide:
Pein: ..........
Jiraiya: wheres nagato?
Pein: .........
Jiraiya : Pein!...can it be......you are.......! *bamff /end of chapter*

I think I saw that scene more than 3-4 times in that last fight

[cheese no koma]

would make much more sense :D

-Also I grow tired of those :

Pein: ...........
Jiraiya: Pein.....YOU.....? *bamff /end of chapter*

Next eposide:
Pein: die..........
Jiraiya: can it be.......Pein......YOU??? *bamff /end of chapter*

Next Eposide:
Pein: ..........
Jiraiya: wheres nagato?
Pein: .........
Jiraiya : Pein!...can it be......you are.......! *bamff /end of chapter*

I think I saw that scene more than 3-4 times in that last fight


lmao, do it again!

seriously, enough cliff hanger, just let the poor old man die. I want to see some naruto growing up soon, battle exp wise

[hyperviper]

I saw a scanned copy somewhere and it shows kisame and team Hebi on the first page. That's about it

[That Other Ninja]

If Jiraiya gets taken over... technically he may not be dead. If Naruto can save him under these conditions, he may return one day as he was.

[Ero-Senn1n]

If Jiraiya gets taken over... technically he may not be dead. If Naruto can save him under these conditions, he may return one day as he was.

I would like that. My theory was that Jiraiya loses and seems like being dead to both the reader and Naruto, but he is instead trapped in another dimension or whatever. And now there' s chance that he is actually trapped in Pein.

More importantly we will see Jiraiya with piercings, that will be badass for sure :D
I hope his hand is somehow restored, maybe he will be the summoning body instead of the fallen one.

[Fran~]

Here goes nothing!!!

/Fran prays

[Ban kai]

i think we are gonna learn more information on Pein

[carb]

if that spoiler is true about jiraiya having a sad life, maybe he did have a sad life, but in the end, i would actually say that he won Tsunade over. aww..

[X_Danny_X]

man i hope Pein is not the fourth Hokage. jiraya mentioned about not teaching Naruto that forbidden jutsu and that only half of the chakara the Kyubbi can be used for the moment. jiraya said the fourth told him this, the reason for sealing the kyuubi for his son.

i hope this wasn't some plan from the very beginning by the fourth hokage.

[kirose]

if that spoiler is true about jiraiya having a sad life, maybe he did have a sad life, but in the end, i would actually say that he won Tsunade over. aww..

that would be useless for him now tho lol.:p

[Kakosan]

that would be useless for him now tho lol.:p

I hope that, if that's true, Tsunade will give a piece of advice to Sakura, in the sense that Naruto being around her is not a given.

[kodok_balls]

man i hope Pein is not the fourth Hokage. jiraya mentioned about not teaching Naruto that forbidden jutsu and that only half of the chakara the Kyubbi can be used for the moment. jiraya said the fourth told him this, the reason for sealing the kyuubi for his son.

i hope this wasn't some plan from the very beginning by the fourth hokage.

really.. i hope the opposite....:cool: i hope that pain is the fourth. so at least jiraiya had been lost to one of the greatest shinobi. not defeated by psycho boy. beside looks like he is very surprised by the fact he knows the true pain's identity. it's must be someone he know well , and we know well as well. it could be the fourth. beside the frog sage prophecy bout the chosen child must be one of the jiraiya's pupil and it must be had something to do with pain. that's the only clue seems credible.....

[huynhlan]

I think if pein taking over J-man body will be better. Come on, Everyone should know that naruto can't never kill j-man so naruto will become more mature to create somekind of new super justy of his own to save j-man and beat pein. If pein is the fourth then there are no way naruto can win, after all the 4th is his dad, and the person he admired.

[Ichimaru]

if nagato is in that other demension

but wasnt yahiko a scrub when he was young? he must have good skills to actually take over nagato or embedded the eyes, or with someones help....

i dont like what jman is doing currently, putting the burden on naruto about his live experience, isnt that the same way as narutos the way of the ninja = FKN LAME

i wanted him to have a wakeup call and change his personality alpha male, non of this emo BS, wtf cant he be like SAI or someone else with a coldblooded personality to accelerate his skills godly and go dday on every mofo

[Sazelyt]

Two spoiler pictures are out (assuming they are not created by highly talented artists not-named Kishi). One is related to Jiraiya's past, the other seems to signal the end of the fight. The first one seems to be about Naruto's parents (Jiraiya sitting across Yondaime, and Kushina is standing next to Yondaime). The second one seems to correspond to the last page of the chapter, and basically the end of Jiraiya, where we see Jiraiya thinking of a message while, in his mind and spirit, walking towards the death.

Translation of the last panel by khalfanJiraiya: Never give up.. That was the real choice I was supposed to make.. Naruto, the child of destiny/prophecy was not Nagato, it was you. I leave the rest to you!

Other updates.

Jiraiya is the one who named Naruto and he is Naruto's godfather. Kushina is clearly shown as pregnant.

Jiraiya also thinks of his failures, with Tsunade, Orochimaru, and Sandaime...

[Goshin]

Translation of the last panel by khalfanJiraiya: Never give up.. That was the real choice I was supposed to make.. Naruto, the child of destiny/prophecy was not Nagato, it was you. I leave the rest to you!


does this mean that nagato wasn't pain? i mean the only reason for jiraiya to come to this conclusion now is if he realizes that the true identity of pein is not one of his students(nagato nor yahiko). and his only student left is naruto

[Sazelyt]

does this mean that nagato wasn't pain? i mean the only reason for jiraiya to come to this conclusion now is if he realizes that the true identity of pein is not one of his students(nagato nor yahiko). and his only student left is narutoI am hoping, we can understand that after we read the whole chapter.

Edit:

Basically, Jiraiya, at the end, makes the reasoning that, Naruto's principle of "to not give up" passed on to him (referring to the real connection between a master and an apprentice), and Jiraiya attributes his choice to that principle. I guess, that would make him consider Naruto as his true apprentice, and the real child of prophecy.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

would make much more sense :D

-Also I grow tired of those :

Pein: ...........
Jiraiya: Pein.....YOU.....? *bamff /end of chapter*

Next eposide:
Pein: die..........
Jiraiya: can it be.......Pein......YOU??? *bamff /end of chapter*

Next Eposide:
Pein: ..........
Jiraiya: wheres nagato?
Pein: .........
Jiraiya : Pein!...can it be......you are.......! *bamff /end of chapter*

I think I saw that scene more than 3-4 times in that last fight

Yes...well Kishimoto liked DBZ and that is EXACTLY like DBZ.
There were times that i thought our heroes died 10x but came back everytime...
so who knows... perhaps Naruto is to find something. (Being told by the frogs)

To find the Narutoballs! To wish him back.

And when Naruto is grown up...it'll be NarutoZ :rolleyes:

[tatami]

none of the spoilers are actually exciting... they are too obvious ideas
and doesnt have any creative thinking and no shocker...

none of them covers any single event or answer any questions...

most probably all of them are fake imo...

[Zoe]

^ Sorry,, the real spoiler's been confirmed.

[Sabaku Kyu]

So it finally happened... the end to the tale of the gallant Jiraiya. He had the shounen flashback of doom. To make it worse, it doesn't even seem that he revealed the true identity of Pein. But he did confirm Naruto as the child of prophecy. I guess maybe Tsunade will figure what Pein is later with the info she receives from the frogs.

I would like to say that Kishi's going to let Jiraiya rest in peace, but Pein still needs another body to replace the corpse that was taken to Konoha. Jiraiya's body may still be a candidate, even if Jiraiya himself has been killed.

[Rurik]

To make it worse, it doesn't even seem that he revealed the true identity of Pein. But he did confirm Naruto as the child of prophecy. I guess maybe Tsunade will figure what Pein is later with the info she receives from the frogs.

Well, I was expecting for his identity not to be revealed, I guess we will have to wait for that answer at least some 10 chapters more, as the action should be focused now on Sasuke and Itachi.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Well, I was expecting for his identity not to be revealed, I guess we will have to wait for that answer at least some 10 chapters more, as the action should be focused now on Sasuke and Itachi.

I was kind of on the fence about the issue. Yeah, Kishi likes to build tension by not revealing these type of secrets, but Jiraiya had the words on the tip of his tongue. Even though his throat was crushed by Pein before he could speak, it seems like his thoughts would have been a direct continuation of the words he was about to say.

But I agree that Pein's identity not being revealed is not particularly surprising.

[Naruto_spartan]

Some of you guys are too annoying. Hasn't anyone been wondering who named Naruto or what his mother or father looked like, or what the conection between Naruto and Jiraiya is? Now we know, and that itself is much.
And it seams like we got a confirmation on who the destiny child is....
It's Naruto, just like I knew it would. Someone doesn't have to have the best wits or the greatest prestige to become a savior of the world. Also Kushina kind of looks like Sakura with longer hair.
I hope this is not the last we see or hear of Kushina Uzumaki.

[Nintendo]

Might cry.....all i got to say..

[tatami]

^ Sorry,, the real spoiler's been confirmed.

well whenever i said a spoiler was cheesy it came to be the correct one anyway :heh:

[Rurik]

Some of you guys are too annoying. Hasn't anyone been wondering who named Naruto or what his mother or father looked like, or what the conection between Naruto and Jiraiya is? Now we know, and that itself is much.

Not really, I really didn’t feel like I needed to know such things (we did know what Naruto Father looked like before this), whereas the other mystery is more interesting, and more important to the plot.

[ChojinLocke]

Not really, I really didn’t feel like I needed to know such things (we did know what Naruto Father looked like before this), whereas the other mystery is more interesting, and more important to the plot.

I..Agree? !!! Yeah it's obvious that Naruto is important to the plot, the Kyubi, the destiny child you name it.. but I think Kishimoto reintroduced those elements to sneak away from the real question at the moment : WHO IS PAIN ?
I guess we have to wait the actual chapter and dialogue to see if we can find something out..The Fourth seems a strong candidate though.

[The Small One]

To find the Narutoballs! To wish him back.

:)
No... we already know the one, who is able to bring the dead back to life: It's Orochimaru. So he has to find the Oroballs and summon Orochimaru. :D

[kodok_balls]

One is for sure... pain is jiraiya's student. but who it is. still a mistery. though i've guessed that must be someone we'd already knew. so my candidate is between the fourth and konan

[xAdvo]

:)
No... we already know the one, who is able to bring the dead back to life: It's Orochimaru. So he has to find the Oroballs and summon Orochimaru. :D

Yes and there will be 8 snake starred balls that you have to collect then you have to activate them somehow and it summons oro in his white snake form and he can bring people back from the dead... lol

[Fukitsu Naruto]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/sazelyt/Naruto382.jpg
The image shows Naruto's mother and the end of chapter with Jiraiya's last words regarding Naruto.

-So that's Naruto's dear mama, huh? Well she certainly is a beauty I'll give Kishimoto that. Now if only she were alive somewhere in the world for her and Naruto to meet. Oh well, some dreams never take off.

-And lo our big surprise that Naruto is the child destined to lead the ninja world into a revolutionary new age. I am shocked in disbelief people [note: massive sarcasm here]. At least for now it seems like Jiraiya isn't going to end up part of Pein's little troupe of piercings so that's somewhat comforting I guess.

[X_Danny_X]

^ Sorry,, the real spoiler's been confirmed.


which spoiler is that???

[ILikeSquiReLz]

:)
No... we already know the one, who is able to bring the dead back to life: It's Orochimaru. So he has to find the Oroballs and summon Orochimaru. :D

Translation: Nothing has changed. They will continue to look for Sasuke.

[Zoe]

which spoiler is that???

Jiraiya's life sucked. He's Naruto's godfather.

[BlackShinobi07]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/sazelyt/Naruto382.jpg
The image shows Naruto's mother and the end of chapter with Jiraiya's last words regarding Naruto.
Is it me, or does she look pregnant?

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Yes and there will be 8 snake starred balls that you have to collect then you have to activate them somehow and it summons oro in his white snake form and he can bring people back from the dead... lol

:)
No... we already know the one, who is able to bring the dead back to life: It's Orochimaru. So he has to find the Oroballs and summon Orochimaru. :D

Ah yes ofcourse... and the magic spells will be: Eternal Snake! By your name i summon you forth: Orochimaru!

Is it me, or does she look pregnant?

Yes definetly...she seems so common...definetly not what i had expected.
So the greatest hero dies afterall... if ANBU doesnt recover his body (even though the battle is far from Konoha/Fire Country)...then i'll hate Tsunade as long as she breathes..

[hyperviper]

yea she's pregnant but she still looks like a pornstar

[That Other Ninja]

She looks exactly like I thought she would. Although the extremely long hair wasn't a guess.

[shaselai]

guess she will show up eventually looking in her 40s or late 30s

[BlackShinobi07]

If Naruto finds out about Jiraiyas death before he reaches saskue, do you guys think he wil abandon his current mission and go looking for Pien?

[tatami]

no need pein will be after him...and he will tell he killed j man to naruto for him to go berserk...(some call it maturity)

[Ryuujin]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/sazelyt/Naruto382.jpg
The image shows Naruto's mother and the end of chapter with Jiraiya's last words regarding Naruto.
Holy shit, Orihime is Naruto's mother :heh:

[Sabaku Kyu]

If Naruto finds out about Jiraiyas death before he reaches saskue, do you guys think he wil abandon his current mission and go looking for Pien?

He would pretty much have to, not just to avenge Jiraiya but because Pein plans to destroy the world. I think even Naruto and Sakura would realize that is more important than finding Sasuke or Itachi. Whenever they find out Jiraiya's dead, I imagine Naruto's group will suspend their search and head back to Konoha for awhile to mourn for Jiraiya and find out the details.Tsunade will tell them about Pein and he will be the new target.

Naruto might receive the key to his seal that Jiraiya was keeping also. And he'll have to train to use the power while keeping it under control to avoid going berserk again. He has Yamato to help him with that.

I smell a new training arc for Naruto...

[tatami]

o yeah he has yamato for kyubi control
he has kakashi for finishing and weakening his opponents for him
he has sakura to feel the same way as him and back him up in argumennts about saving sasuke
he has tsunade (a hokage) to make sure he does whatever he wants
he has shika for tactics
he has hinata loving him
he has sasuke to take back
he has sai to counterbalance his stupidity
he has shino , ino and kiba to track people
he has kyubi cuz he is unable to think properly and use some jutsus tactics and all above...


what a lame char he is...when will he become a man i wonder...


the great j man dies and hopefully that is what naruto needs to be some enjoyable char...

[BlackShinobi07]

I smell a new training arc for Naruto...
I was just about to say that. Lets just hope Naruto becomes powerful enough this time so Pein doesn't have to beweaken or stupified like a previous opponent of Mr. Uzumakis.

Im getting a bit confused. First Naruto relies on the fox for almost all his battles. Then duing his first encounter with Sasuke in part 2 he says he doesn't want it. And now with the key Jiraiay sent Naruto it seems he'll be using the kyuubi again? Why does kishi keep going back and fourth? Does this key thing mean Kishi finally realized Naruto is too weak or something?

o yeah he has yamato for kyubi control
he has kakashi for finishing and weakening his opponents for him
he has sakura to feel the same way as him and back him up in argumennts about saving sasuke
he has tsunade (a hokage) to make sure he does whatever he wants
he has shika for tactics
he has hinata loving him
he has sasuke to take back
he has sai to counterbalance his stupidity
he has shino , ino and kiba to track people
he has kyubi cuz he is unable to think properly and use some jutsus tactics and all above...


what a lame char he is...when will he become a man i wonder...


the great j man dies and hopefully that is what naruto needs to be some enjoyable char...

lol. Your post is so true.

[EoT]

I don't get why everything had be so secretive like as to who his mother and father were and to who the godfather was and that now it's revealed he is the 'destiny child'. Seems like Kishi thought of all this stuff recently and decided to blurt it all out.

[BlackShinobi07]

I don't get why everything had be so secretive like as to who his mother and father were and to who the godfather was and that now it's revealed he is the 'destiny child'. Seems like Kishi thought of all this stuff recently and decided to blurt it all out.
Possibly. Some people do think he makes things up as he goes along.

[shaselai]

Possibly. Some people do think he makes things up as he goes along.

Isn't the one of the best qualities of a DM/storyteller? make stuff up as you go along... never run out of ideas.

[BlackShinobi07]

Isn't the one of the best qualities of a DM/storyteller? make stuff up as you go along... never run out of ideas.
I guess so. Seems to be working for Kishi.

[Sazelyt]

If Naruto finds out about Jiraiya's death before he reaches sasuke, do you guys think he will abandon his current mission and go looking for Pein?If that happens and if nobody will go there to pick him up, that is a given, and it is not very difficult to go there and come back in time using frog carriers and summons and unsummons. If that happens, I would like to see Tobi's reaction after being told about Jiraiya.

Another possibility would be ma frog bringing help, for instance, Tsunade and a large number of skilled Konoha ninja. I think after killing Jiraiya, Pein wouldn't want to risk everything just to keep Jiraiya's body. f he weren't converted his friend's body to one of his soldier's I honestly would have expected him to show some respect for Jiraiya.

Anyway, I am actually hoping, Jiraiya's body to be somehow unsummoned to the frog land with the help of pa frog. And, it wouldn't complicate things a lot on the Sasuke side, this way.

I smell a new training arc for Naruto...I think that may happen with the help of the elder toads. Naruto especially needs to learn about the key but the toad summon based jutsus are missing too; that part helped Jiraiya the most in his fight against Pein. Maybe if he can master the key to control Kyuubi powers, he will be ready for the next set of training.

[tatami]

how the hell anybody will take on pein now...that was a great fight but he is still there...i hope it wont be a 30 vs pein...

[EoT]

how the hell anybody will take on pein now...that was a great fight but he is still there...i hope it wont be a 30 vs pein...

History may repeat itself in reference to the Asuma situation but who will avenge Jiraiya? Naruto or..?

[That Other Ninja]

Now All We Need To Know Is What Kakashi Looks Like.

[tatami]

hahaa you wish pal :D

1st s name
2nd s name
1st and madara situation
madara and kyubi situation
kyubi and uchiha situationitachi and uchiha annihilation
naruto and hinata situation
orochimaru come back situation
other akatsuki members
who is pein
what happened to yahiko and nagato
why is konan with pein?
why does peins bodies are j mans old enemies?
how does rinnegan work?
what will happen to hyuuga?
when will other older guys die?
will we ever see elder frogs again?
is obito alive?
madara?
tobi?
etc?

:D

[BlackShinobi07]

Now All We Need To Know Is What Kakashi Looks Like.
You never seen him? I think a pic of him is one wikipedia.

[tatami]

You never seen him? I think a pic of him is one wikipedia.

his face was never revealed:heh:

[Sabaku Kyu]

o yeah he has yamato for kyubi control
he has kakashi for finishing and weakening his opponents for him
he has sakura to feel the same way as him and back him up in argumennts about saving sasuke
he has tsunade (a hokage) to make sure he does whatever he wants
he has shika for tactics
he has hinata loving him
he has sasuke to take back
he has sai to counterbalance his stupidity
he has shino , ino and kiba to track people
he has kyubi cuz he is unable to think properly and use some jutsus tactics and all above...


what a lame char he is...when will he become a man i wonder...



Uh, he's lame because he has others helping him? I could take lots of characters and make a list of how their teammates aid them. There's not many shinobi who don't rely on the skills of others.




Im getting a bit confused. First Naruto relies on the fox for almost all his battles. Then duing his first encounter with Sasuke in part 2 he says he doesn't want it. And now with the key Jiraiay sent Naruto it seems he'll be using the kyuubi again? Why does kishi keep going back and fourth? Does this key thing mean Kishi finally realized Naruto is too weak or something?



There's probably a balance there somewhere.

I don't get why everything had be so secretive like as to who his mother and father were and to who the godfather was and that now it's revealed he is the 'destiny child'. Seems like Kishi thought of all this stuff recently and decided to blurt it all out.

At the beginning of the story it was very important to make it seem like Naruto was a nobody and a reject. If they made Naruto's heritage known back then, it would've ruined the tone of the story. There were subtle hints in Pt 1 about Jiraiya knowing Naruto's heritage though.

But still, I admit some parts don't mesh well. Particularly in Tsunade's case. When she was first introduced to the story, she seemed to see Naruto as everyone else viewed him: the kid with the demon fox sealed inside him. She treated him almost like a complete stranger. But it was revealed that she in fact knew his entire history including both his parents. Looking back, it seems kind of weird that Tsunade had almost no reaction whatsoever in seeing Yondaime's son.

[solidified]

The old man's gotta die!
It'll be naruto's motivation to become stronger

[tatami]

Uh, he's lame because he has others helping him? I could take lots of characters and make a list of how their teammates aid them. There's not many shinobi who don't rely on the skills of others.



no he is lame cuz he cannot do things by himself....everybody uses help if necessary but up to that point they try to survive with what they got...when x chars taijutsu sux he/she covers it ith genjutsu or ninjutsu...where they lack brain they use power...and naruto?

he uses kage bunshin, when it fails he uses it more...when that fails too he uses rasengan...after that kyubi...which come to...he basically always uses kyubi...and he cannot cover any of his mistakes or bad skills...

do you really think that jiraiyas death and his scroll would give naruto what he neeeds to survive and kill pein (at least handle him) or naruto needs an over all 15 -20 chapter of training for maturing and getting powerfull enough in all 3 areas ? (nin gen and taijutsu)

[That Other Ninja]

hahaa you wish pal :D

1st s name
2nd s name
1st and madara situation
madara and kyubi situation
kyubi and uchiha situationitachi and uchiha annihilation
naruto and hinata situation
orochimaru come back situation
other akatsuki members
who is pein
what happened to yahiko and nagato
why is konan with pein?
why does peins bodies are j mans old enemies?
how does rinnegan work?
what will happen to hyuuga?
when will other older guys die?
will we ever see elder frogs again?
is obito alive?
madara?
tobi?
etc?

:D
1. Dunno what that is
2. Dunno what that is
3. Eventual
4. Eventual
5. Given
6. Indefinite/Irrelevant
7. Probable
8. Eventual
9. Eventual
10. Eventual
11. Given
12. Given
13. Eventual
14. Irrelevant?
15. Irrelevant
16. Possible
17. Probable
18. Refer to 17
19. Refer to 18

You never seen him? I think a pic of him is one wikipedia.
Any image that has Kakashi without his face mask is a fake. He's never officially been revealed and there's no indication we ever will get to see him. Just as there's never been any indication that we'd get to see Naruto's mother. So it is a possibility, just not indicated.

[BlackShinobi07]

Any image that has Kakashi without his face mask is a fake. He's never officially been revealed and there's no indication we ever will get to see him. Just as there's never been any indication that we'd get to see Naruto's mother. So it is a possibility, just not indicated.
Oh your right. I thought That Other Ninja said Kishi, not Kakashi.

[Fukitsu Naruto]

At the beginning of the story it was very important to make it seem like Naruto was a nobody and a reject. If they made Naruto's heritage known back then, it would've ruined the tone of the story. There were subtle hints in Pt 1 about Jiraiya knowing Naruto's heritage though.

But still, I admit some parts don't mesh well. Particularly in Tsunade's case. When she was first introduced to the story, she seemed to see Naruto as everyone else viewed him: the kid with the demon fox sealed inside him. She treated him almost like a complete stranger. But it was revealed that she in fact knew his entire history including both his parents. Looking back, it seems kind of weird that Tsunade had almost no reaction whatsoever in seeing Yondaime's son.

-Actually for Tsunade, looking back to how she was when we were first introduced to her it isn't surprising that she treated Naruto like that. Remember that at the time Tsunade held little to no respect towards the Hokage, even if it was Yondaime and his son. It's a cutsey little ploy by the author but a clever one. That way he could keep Naruto's heritage a secret, despite having introduced a character that has more ties to Yondaime Hokage and Naruto than anyone (that being Jiraiya).

-What I don't like about this revelation though is that Naruto's character seems contradictory. He values hard work over anything else yet he is "destined" for greatness somehing he opposed in his fight with Neji. So what exactly am I saying? Well for one thing this puts pressure on Kishimoto to present Naruto himself in that "destined glory" and he needs to do it almost "perfectly" as anything else would just make him seem like an un-developed failure. My point being is that it was easier to present Naruto's great achievements while he was still considered a no-talent which we now know is not going to be the case.

-Now while I applaud the return of the Kyuubi chakra useage and advise Kishimoto to never again put some lame-ass claim that Naruto no longer wants it I can't help but feel that Kishimoto is being indecisive about Naruto's primary mode of combat. 1st he has him use the Kyuubi chakra exclusively in almost every battle, then puts out some crap saying he won't use it again and gives him Fuuton abilities and now he goes full circle back to where he started. What. The. Faucet. Seriously pick something and stick with it sheesh. Give him demon powers, give him wind manipulation, give him the ability to pull weapons out of his arse I care not. Just pick something...

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Any image that has Kakashi without his face mask is a fake. He's never officially been revealed and there's no indication we ever will get to see him. Just as there's never been any indication that we'd get to see Naruto's mother. So it is a possibility, just not indicated.

Yes...Kakashi was born with a mask.

Well i read quite a few things so...i am already aware of what's going to happen.

I am speechless...but i cant understand. Why do the good people die while the lame people keep surviving?

Gaara --> Well atleast he got revived...
Asuma --> Definetly next to Kakashi the coolest Jounin
Jiraiya-sama --> Speechless..
Orochimaru-sama --> Just trying to piss us off (dying just like that)

Chouji --> Survives just to empty the village. He drains all food in Konoha.
Sai --> ...
Kabuto --> Will he develop a clone machine to bring back whoever? Will he find friends?

[tatami]

so how bout :

the choice j man did was sending the key to naruto which can ultimately bring peace or chaos to the nin world?

[BlackShinobi07]

-Now while I applaud the return of the Kyuubi chakra useage and advise Kishimoto to never again put some lame-ass claim that Naruto no longer wants it I can't help but feel that Kishimoto is being indecisive about Naruto's primary mode of combat. 1st he has him use the Kyuubi chakra exclusively in almost every battle, then puts out some crap saying he won't use it again and gives him Fuuton abilities and now he goes full circle back to where he started. What. The. Faucet. Seriously pick something and stick with it sheesh. Give him demon powers, give him wind manipulation, give him the ability to pull weapons out of his arse I care not. Just pick something...

I was thinking the same thing.

[naruto89]

*weep* *weep* is he actually dead yet (i mean closed eyes and everything)because otherwise i wont except it! and wat about "Pa" i hope he dies and then Ma and Naruto can train and become the new avengers

I just cant see a funeral happening again after all the grief when the sarutobi's bit the bullet and having naruto comforting konohamaru all over again (for some reason i dont know)

for some reason i get the feeling suigutsu bears resemblance to kushina!

Now with the whole jiraya being the godfather pisses me off to a new level because it intreques as to why jiraya treated naruto like he did when they first met and i may be wrong but i even remember him referring to naruto as the kyuubi boy in his own thoughts.

All i wish is that tsunade hears about j-man having issues with the pein-twats rushes to the battlefield and where jiraya was once positioned where he supposedly died ,but is gone and she only finds some form of important pieces of clothing resulting in the readers having a fresh spark of speculation regarding the revival of galiant j-man.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

-Now while I applaud the return of the Kyuubi chakra useage and advise Kishimoto to never again put some lame-ass claim that Naruto no longer wants it I can't help but feel that Kishimoto is being indecisive about Naruto's primary mode of combat. 1st he has him use the Kyuubi chakra exclusively in almost every battle, then puts out some crap saying he won't use it again and gives him Fuuton abilities and now he goes full circle back to where he started. What. The. Faucet. Seriously pick something and stick with it sheesh. Give him demon powers, give him wind manipulation, give him the ability to pull weapons out of his arse I care not. Just pick something...

I was thinking the same thing.

If he did Naruto would reach it's end already. And he'd be the favorite (strongest) and not the underdog (almost the strongest :p).

Look at Sasuke...he went 1 direction and he's suddenly one of the strongest characters (facing Itachi now). So Naruto had to be stopped and then to resume.

[BlackShinobi07]

I've noticed that a lot of people dont want to Jiraiyas to die but I think his death should be quite interesting. It'll be the first time we see how Naruto mourns the death of someone close to him.

If he did Naruto would reach it's end already. And he'd be the favorite (strongest) and not the underdog (almost the strongest :p).

Ahh no. He'd most likely just be more popular among fans and people would keep complaining about his lack of skill.


Look at Sasuke...he went 1 direction and he's suddenly one of the strongest characters.

Which is exactly why Naruto should have done the same. Too bad he didn't because he currently stands no chance agianst Sasuke.
(not trying to start a Naruto vs Sasuke thing here, but its pretty obvious whos the more well rounded ninja is)

[Sabaku Kyu]

do you really think that jiraiyas death and his scroll would give naruto what he neeeds to survive and kill pein (at least handle him) or naruto needs an over all 15 -20 chapter of training for maturing and getting powerfull enough in all 3 areas ? (nin gen and taijutsu)

Yes. Just like seeing Asuma getting killed gave Shika what he needed to defeat Hidan (that and a leg up on his fighting techniques). This is shounen, where huge overnight powerups are the norm. Where determination and emotions regularly win against experience, fighting skill and overwhelming power. And like Shika, Naruto won't be confronting Pein totally blind to his abilities since the Ma toad will be relaying that info to Tsunade.

And why does Naruto need to get better in all 3 areas of combat? Naruto defeated Neji and Gaara, two opponents that were supposedly leagues beyond him, after a month of training. What did Naruto learn during that month? Genjutsu? None. Taijutsu? Nada. Ninjutsu? Kuchiyose. And he wasn't very good at it. Mainly, all Naruto did was learn how to use his powers better. That and one new jutsu allowed him exceed all expectations. He can do the same thing against Pein. Granted, I think it will be a long, long while before we actually see these two fight.

-Actually for Tsunade, looking back to how she was when we were first introduced to her it isn't surprising that she treated Naruto like that. Remember that at the time Tsunade held little to no respect towards the Hokage, even if it was Yondaime and his son. It's a cutsey little ploy by the author but a clever one. That way he could keep Naruto's heritage a secret, despite having introduced a character that has more ties to Yondaime Hokage and Naruto than anyone (that being Jiraiya).

I agree that Tsunade's behavior towards Naruto can be chalked up to that reason. But even when Jiraiya first introduces Naruto by his full name, Tsunade had no thoughts about Naruto beyond "This is the nine-tails." If she was meant to have known about Minato and Kushina like she showed later, it seems like seeing their son would've brought up thoughts of them. But all in all, it's a very minor detail.

[naruto89]

And lastly wat the frick was he talking about when he said that he was a failure because he couldnt save his master, he was dancing on a f*cking frog when the 3rd was getting a beat down.

[That Other Ninja]

Yes...Kakashi was born with a mask.

Well i read quite a few things so...i am already aware of what's going to happen.

I am speechless...but i cant understand. Why do the good people die while the lame people keep surviving?

Gaara --> Well atleast he got revived...
Asuma --> Definetly next to Kakashi the coolest Jounin
Jiraiya-sama --> Speechless..
Orochimaru-sama --> Just trying to piss us off (dying just like that)

Chouji --> Survives just to empty the village. He drains all food in Konoha.
Sai --> ...
Kabuto --> Will he develop a clone machine to bring back whoever? Will he find friends?
I'm sure if this was a mini-series ppl would die left and right. Much like Basilisk.

[tatami]

Yes. Just like seeing Asuma getting killed gave Shika what he needed to defeat Hidan (that and a leg up on his fighting techniques). This is shounen, where huge overnight powerups are the norm. Where determination and emotions regularly win against experience, fighting skill and overwhelming power. And like Shika, Naruto won't be confronting Pein totally blind to his abilities since the Ma toad will be relaying that info to Tsunade.

And why does Naruto need to get better in all 3 areas of combat? Naruto defeated Neji and Gaara, two opponents that were supposedly leagues beyond him, after a month of training. What did Naruto learn during that month? Genjutsu? None. Taijutsu? Nada. Ninjutsu? Kuchiyose. And he wasn't very good at it. Mainly, all Naruto did was learn how to use his powers better. That and one new jutsu allowed him exceed all expectations. He can do the same thing against Pein. Granted, I think it will be a long, long while before we actually see these two fight.



do not compare asuma shika relation with naruto jiraiya...or even shika to naruto.and naruto doesnt need any power up he needs something else that cannot be given in a night.whatever the info they will get wont be any good if naruto faces pein...(one on one) no way in hell naruto take on pein...if he does i will kill kishi.

naruto does need to get better in 3 areas,ant nin should do it.i dont say he has to be perfect but at least some taste of 3 areas...he can be better in one of them like neji or he can be average in all areas...that way he can understand and analyse the fight properly rather than screaming and going berserk...

neji and gaara you say?neji underestimated him and lost the fight...thanks to kyubi...and gaara? again thanks to kyubi and gamabunta he was able to survive...but..if he had properly matured and had a knowledge about being a ninja stuff he would easily win those battles rather than being beaten to death or barely standing...

[Grimkill7]

wont be any good if naruto faces pein...(one on one) no way in hell naruto take on pein...if he does i will kill kishi.

It was Pein's fate to fight Naruto the second he killed Jiraiya. No one else will fight him and more than likely it will be one on one. Pein is Naruto's (next) stepping stone.

[tatami]

It was Pein's fate to fight Naruto the second he killed Jiraiya. No one else will fight him and more than likely it will be one on one. Pein is Naruto's (next) stepping stone.

no it was before it, tobi ordered him to do so :D

anyway it wont be 1 on 1 thats for sure...i mean cmon "dumb" naruto vs "never lost a fight not even to jiraiya" pein?

no way he can handle him...not even for 2 min.


i will never ever accept it :D just because it would be nonsense...even beyond nonsense...

[That Other Ninja]

no it was before it, tobi ordered him to do so :D

anyway it wont be 1 on 1 thats for sure...i mean cmon "dumb" naruto vs "never lost a fight not even to jiraiya" pein?

no way he can handle him...not even for 2 min.


i will never ever accept it :D just because it would be nonsense...even beyond nonsense...
Lets see if you keep that idealism once Naruto learns Hiraishin.

[tennis1690]

So Naruto is the destined child afterall...finally some recognition after all this Uchiha storyline!!!!!! And Jiraiya finally loses the battle against Pein, and I certainly hope before he decides to play dead he reveals the true identity of Pein. Afterall, he is the only one who claims to have figured it out (who else will??? Naruto???)
We get to see Naruto's mom (yeeeeeeah)...pregnant, and is it just me or does Minato resemble Goku's personality (he is always goofing around and laughing).
Some people have said that Kushina looks very much like a grown-up Sakura. And isn't it interesting that Sakura's parents have never been talked about or mentiones at all. Perhaps it is time to reveal that Sakura and Naruto are (you know it)...siblings (just joking here guys, let's not go that far).
All in all, we'll learn more about Pein and his abilities as Tsunade will shortly receive a little surprise in her mailbox, and she'll will examine him very throughly (no pun intended)

[tatami]

Lets see if you keep that idealism once Naruto learns Hiraishin.

no way...simply...no f. way.

[Mists]

Now a great twist would be that Oro is actually alive and who knows what about Kabumaru...Regardless of what Kabuto does, Sasuke's body still contains Oro's soul...though perhaps Kabuto can look and have Oro's jutsus (since he has his cells).

[That Other Ninja]

no way...simply...no f. way.
Oh but you know it in your gut, you know it well.

[Sazelyt]

-What I don't like about this revelation though is that Naruto's character seems contradictory. He values hard work over anything else yet he is "destined" for greatness somehing he opposed in his fight with Neji. So what exactly am I saying? Well for one thing this puts pressure on Kishimoto to present Naruto himself in that "destined glory" and he needs to do it almost "perfectly" as anything else would just make him seem like an un-developed failure. My point being is that it was easier to present Naruto's great achievements while he was still considered a no-talent which we now know is not going to be the case. Don't mistake what Jiraiya said with what the elder said. Jiraiya believes Naruto is the destined child who would bring peace to the world. From the story perspective, we know eventually that will become true, but, right now, anything is possible (meaning it is between Pein's scheme to succeed and Naruto stopping that scheme).

Also, I don't see why you would think Naruto's character being contradictory. It is not like that destiny is written and he has to walk according to that. As always, he will create his own destiny. Even though he has Kyuubi whom he can always rely on, he still values hard work and works towards a point where he can stop getting that help in a way that may endanger others.

Right now, the time Naruto reaches using Kyuubi's powers at max consciously, he will reach a point where you can assume there won't be any greatness beyond that. So, I don't see any problem with Naruto's future regarding development aspects too. The only problem is his lack of development right now (of course, compared to Sasuke, otherwise, compared to the old Naruto, he is definitely at a highly admirable level).

Lastly, if the information given in the anime is also the same in the manga, then, Kishi had given the signs for Naruto's achievements - all over the world - at the end of the first arc, after his name was given to that bridge. And, having a goal of becoming the greatest Hokage is already carrying enough meaning within it - if you can consider the achievements of the previous Hokages. The latest revelation is just a part of many things about Naruto that would make him become one of the greatest, at the end.

[Hage-bai]

no it was before it, tobi ordered him to do so :D

anyway it wont be 1 on 1 thats for sure...i mean cmon "dumb" naruto vs "never lost a fight not even to jiraiya" pein?

no way he can handle him...not even for 2 min.


i will never ever accept it :D just because it would be nonsense...even beyond nonsense...

Yeah thats because Kishimoto sucks cack. If naruto happens to fight Pain with the help of his shitty buddies, and ignores the true form of a shonen by neglecting the main char development, then so be it. I hope Kishimoto enjoys this over-hyped pile of garbage. R-A-S-E-N-G-A-N!!! yah yah!!

[tkdtiger]

Yeah thats because Kishimoto sucks cack. If naruto happens to fight Pain with the help of his shitty buddies, and ignores the true form of a shonen by neglecting the main char development, then so be it. I hope Kishimoto enjoys this over-hyped pile of garbage. R-A-S-E-N-G-A-N!!! yah yah!!

well it wouldn't be the first time that a writer had the main character fight a major villain with the help of their friends. Shoot they did it in dragon ball z lol

[Hage-bai]

Yes, and we'll see it for sure with a generous sprinkling of R-A-S-E-N-G-A-N.

A poor man's K-A-M-E-H-A-M-E-H-A which undoubtedly will fall flat on its face.

Atrocious.

[tatami]

well it wouldn't be the first time that a writer had the main character fight a major villain with the help of their friends. Shoot they did it in dragon ball z lol

yeah everybody beat up the bad guy and goku was just there to give a taste of genki dama and one of the good guys kills the bad guy yeah///


the problem is not main char fighting arc villain...the problem is that pein is pictured as a god who never ever lost a fight, gave one of the best fights in the series and killed jiraiya...now just because of that naruto suddenly all grown up matured and facing pain?

the same naruto who just couldnt take care of weakened orochimaru in his 4 tail state?(and he wasnt in control)

now what he will be able to control his tailed form with the help of the "key" who cares man? i dont wanna see anymore kyubi berserker naruto...what if he is in control?its still the god damn fox we see...not naruto...

will he become all matured after j man die? not seem to be...hot headed naruto will always be like that until he is 20 or something...

will he get a power up? who cares? his last power up is not completed yet and he tried a lot to accomplish half of it...now he will get an instant power up after hearing j man is dead? what powerup will he get? another rasengan variation? one of 4ths jutsu? maybe his power up is the 4th himself...

dissapointment...that is what naruto is...

i hate the uchiha sisters and especially sasuke part of it but i would gladly accept if the serie was to be called sasuke and move naruto from it...

at least his char tasted a little bit of development...ups...i am sorry...who didnt taste it...oh...naruto...


now i am waiting naruto to use the rasengan on earth size...

[Fukitsu Naruto]

Don't mistake what Jiraiya said with what the elder said. Jiraiya believes Naruto is the destined child who would bring peace to the world. From the story perspective, we know eventually that will become true, but, right now, anything is possible (meaning it is between Pein's scheme to succeed and Naruto stopping that scheme).

Also, I don't see why you would think Naruto's character being contradictory. It is not like that destiny is written and he has to walk according to that. As always, he will create his own destiny. Even though he has Kyuubi whom he can always rely on, he still values hard work and works towards a point where he can stop getting that help in a way that may endanger others.

Right now, the time Naruto reaches using Kyuubi's powers at max consciously, he will reach a point where you can assume there won't be any greatness beyond that. So, I don't see any problem with Naruto's future regarding development aspects too. The only problem is his lack of development right now (of course, compared to Sasuke, otherwise, compared to the old Naruto, he is definitely at a highly admirable level).

Lastly, if the information given in the anime is also the same in the manga, then, Kishi had given the signs for Naruto's achievements - all over the world - at the end of the first arc, after his name was given to that bridge. And, having a goal of becoming the greatest Hokage is already carrying enough meaning within it - if you can consider the achievements of the previous Hokages. The latest revelation is just a part of many things about Naruto that would make him become one of the greatest, at the end.

-My friend I think you might have missunderstood what I was trying to say. I have no problem with the fact that Naruto is destined for greatness, one that he will achieve through his own hard work and determination. What I do have a problem with is the 2 current major revelations presented to us by Kishimoto. The first one is Naruto's heritage, that he is the son of Yondaime Hokage and Uzumaki Kushina. This may sound like a completely aesthetic quivel but knowing that Naruto's lineage is linked to someone as amazing as Yondaime Hokage kind of ruins Naruto's whole "loser-turned-winner" theme. Before, when his parents were unconfirmed, Naruto would strive to achieve his goals and the audience would have a genuine appreciation for it as if to say "Wow so the loser can actually put up a fight when he sets his mind to it". But now, knowing that he's related to an incredible person, his accolishments seem all the more un-impressive as if to say "Yeah he better be able to do that if he wants to surpass his daddy-dearest" (a fact that has yet to be made known to him) even if he's putting in even more effort to his development. Do you see where I am going with this?

-Issue numero deux lies with Jiraiya's opinion of Naruto revealed in this chapter. We know for certain that Naruto shall become great but not how he will go about doing that. But this transformation from a 2nd-rate ninja to a shinobi-god has to be presented in a way that has to be so amazing, befitting the son of a Hokage, that I think Kishimoto has dug his own grave when it comes to this issue. I guarantee you that if that toad scroll is like some sort of Deus Ex Machina formula to make Naruto a shinobi-god in as few as 2-3 chapters then people are going to be quite pissed.

[winteragain]

I am believing more and more that naruto has a bunch of clones training now.. there is absolutely no way he can match pain at the moment..that is jsut a given.

If not a bunch of clones training then a blood line limit that has been surpressed by the kyubi or something cause he doesnt seem to have what it takes at all to face pain or tobi. (it is implied that if pain aka god listens to tobi then he must be super dupper pwnage to the infinitly power)

Watever it is there has to be a drastic change in naruto any guesses ?? I mean right now pain seems so badass he could easily have walked right into the front entrance of konona and killed everyone and got naruto anytime he wanted to.

I dont see any training session that could possibly work for this kid cause there isnt anyone that could beat pain in the manga currently on the good side.

It is as a last resort possible that sasuke, joins forces to down this pain guy. If sasuke kills itachi (which i doubt) he really doesnt have any reason to stay a rebell.

Would it be weird if naruto knows how to turn into frog mode too and has to perfect it like j-man. I mean that would make sorta sense since the two frogs have experience fighitng pain and also cna be the brains of naruto.

I agree with the previous post kishimoto has dug his own grave cause he made naruto the destined child which means he has to be the ultimate one to do away with all pain. Group battle seems possible but they have to save that for tobi no?? i mean doing it again with pain would be so boring!

as for future predictions which is way out there but fun to imagine ...i see sasuke + kakashi coming back to being good and fighting tobi sharingan to sharingan... sakura+ the tsunada facing konan...and everyone in leaf land village facing pain along side naruto. oh and team hebi kills kisame and steals his beloved sword.. As for itachi he goes into hidding cause he got pwned by his little bro that showed him too much hate..

[Grimkill7]

You know, just because Jiraiya got beat by Pain does not mean that Naruto will.*Read the rest of the post before you flame me* It's not always "ZOMG X beat Y, then Y beat Z so therez no wai that Z could beat X :eyespin:". With different techniques and elemental affinities, this is anyone's fight. Example: Temari got beat by Shikamaru (for all intents and purposes, he won that fight), but Shikamaru lost to Tayuya (again, the fight was pretty much over with). However, Temari came in and 1-Hit K.O.ed Tayuya. Granted, this is a battle on a much higher scale, but the same concept applies. I think Naruto's Kage Bunshin is the perfect counter to Pain's numbers and Rinnegan. NOT TO MENTION, Naruto will be receiving a power up through this key. What the power up will entail, remains to be seen. Whether or not his power up is cheap, the fact of the matter is that Naruto has to be the one to put the nail in Pain's coffin. Jiraiya was Naruto's sensei, his godfather, and more importantly a good friend to him (cheesy, I know). Pain was destined to die by Naruto's hand when he killed Jiraiya. It's just shounen law I'm afraid. Tsunade is the only other one who has the right to end Pain, but she probably won't. That leaves Naruto.

[Sazelyt]

-My friend I think you might have missunderstood what I was trying to say. I have no problem with the fact that Naruto is destined for greatness, one that he will achieve through his own hard work and determination. What I do have a problem with is the 2 current major revelations presented to us by Kishimoto. The first one is Naruto's heritage, that he is the son of Yondaime Hokage and Uzumaki Kushina. This may sound like a completely aesthetic quivel but knowing that Naruto's lineage is linked to someone as amazing as Yondaime Hokage kind of ruins Naruto's whole "loser-turned-winner" theme. Before, when his parents were unconfirmed, Naruto would strive to achieve his goals and the audience would have a genuine appreciation for it as if to say "Wow so the loser can actually put up a fight when he sets his mind to it". But now, knowing that he's related to an incredible person, his accolishments seem all the more un-impressive as if to say "Yeah he better be able to do that if he wants to surpass his daddy-dearest" (a fact that has yet to be made known to him) even if he's putting in even more effort to his development. Do you see where I am going with this?It has been long speculated that Naruto has some kind of relationship with Yondaime, at different levels. You should ask yourself, until now what has that connection provided for Naruto? Did Jiraiya came to know him and trained him because he is Yondaime's son, or because it was just a coincidental meeting? It was not like, because of Naruto's lineage, Jiraiya searched for him to train him to become worthy of his father. It is not like Sandaime provided him special training because he was the only thing that is left of the person he valued over someone as close to his child. It is not like the people of the village behaved Naruto with the respect he should get automatically by being born to Yondaime. It is not like Naruto displayed his amazing Yondaime-inherited abilities since his birth, by being the last in everything he had done before. Naruto came to the world to become a loser for the most of his life until now, and carrying Yondaime's genetics has done nothing to help with that. Naruto has been told as nothing like his father. So, I cannot but that argument, he is what he is because of the genes he received from his father (at least not for now). Naruto has become the person he is because of his hard work and the beast he carries within.


-Issue numero deux lies with Jiraiya's opinion of Naruto revealed in this chapter. We know for certain that Naruto shall become great but not how he will go about doing that. But this transformation from a 2nd-rate ninja to a shinobi-god has to be presented in a way that has to be so amazing, befitting the son of a Hokage, that I think Kishimoto has dug his own grave when it comes to this issue. I guarantee you that if that toad scroll is like some sort of Deus Ex Machina formula to make Naruto a shinobi-god in as few as 2-3 chapters then people are going to be quite pissed.Naruto has already become strong and able enough to be considered as a 1st rate ninja, at least by Kakashi, who we can trust his opinion, I believe. And, Tsunade already verified that she accepted Naruto's destiny. So, what we have here, based on Jiraiya's comments, is another opinion that strengthens that. Until now, any success Naruto has achieved is a step towards that destiny. Anyway, I don't see why you consider Jiraiya's words as something bad. If Sasuke is god-like right now, have you thought even for a single second that the story will end before Naruto either reaches or exceeds that level? I personally haven't. Also, Jiraiya's opinion seems to be just going to be revealed to us, as those words were shared by us and Jiraiya, only.

On the scroll: If the scroll would have solved everything, Jiraiya would have already done that during their 2.5 years worth of training. So, it is not going to be easy. Naruto has to figure out the secret to that scroll himself. And, have you ever seen Naruto gaining something like MS in a god-like speed? I don't remember and I don't think he was ever portrayed to do that. Even his special bunshin-based training put the most emphasis on his hard work.

Though, there is only one exception, and that is Kyuubi. If the secret to that scroll is some kind of deal with Kyuubi, I don't see any wrong in that. At least, it will be achieved with the help of a power-limitless beast instead of a genetically received eye. And, if anyone would have a problem with that, it is not going to be something that I will share, that is for sure.

[tkdtiger]

yeah everybody beat up the bad guy and goku was just there to give a taste of genki dama and one of the good guys kills the bad guy yeah///


the problem is not main char fighting arc villain...the problem is that pein is pictured as a god who never ever lost a fight, gave one of the best fights in the series and killed jiraiya...now just because of that naruto suddenly all grown up matured and facing pain?

the same naruto who just couldnt take care of weakened orochimaru in his 4 tail state?(and he wasnt in control)

now what he will be able to control his tailed form with the help of the "key" who cares man? i dont wanna see anymore kyubi berserker naruto...what if he is in control?its still the god damn fox we see...not naruto...

will he become all matured after j man die? not seem to be...hot headed naruto will always be like that until he is 20 or something...

will he get a power up? who cares? his last power up is not completed yet and he tried a lot to accomplish half of it...now he will get an instant power up after hearing j man is dead? what powerup will he get? another rasengan variation? one of 4ths jutsu? maybe his power up is the 4th himself...

dissapointment...that is what naruto is...

i hate the uchiha sisters and especially sasuke part of it but i would gladly accept if the serie was to be called sasuke and move naruto from it...

at least his char tasted a little bit of development...ups...i am sorry...who didnt taste it...oh...naruto...


now i am waiting naruto to use the rasengan on earth size...

I agree that aspects of naruto has been some what of a let down. So far imo the biggest let down is not the story itself, but rather I read one of Kishimoto's interviews where he said that he had alot planned for the characters of the other teams after the time skip and I still have yet to see much of any development, but truthfully I think I'm probably jumping the gun. Although there has been many chapters from the time-skip onwards, plot-wise there really hasn't been as much as I would have expects, since in reality many of those chapters covered maybe 4-5 events. And the aspect that he has created more twists in the plot..i.e. Kaubuto actually makes me believe that Naruto isn't as close to being finished as some may think. Overall I think due to the fact that there are so many characters has ultimately hurt naruto, because nobody will be satisfied if their favorite character doesn't get the plot development that they want.

And now we have this battle with Pein, though does answer many question it also leaves alot of questions unanswered...

[mayhem]

Is it me, or does she look pregnant?

And like sakura

[Fukitsu Naruto]

It has been long speculated that Naruto has some kind of relationship with Yondaime, at different levels. You should ask yourself, until now what has that connection provided for Naruto? Did Jiraiya came to know him and trained him because he is Yondaime's son, or because it was just a coincidental meeting? It was not like, because of Naruto's lineage, Jiraiya searched for him to train him to become worthy of his father. It is not like Sandaime provided him special training because he was the only thing that is left of the person he valued over someone as close to his child. It is not like the people of the village behaved Naruto with the respect he should get automatically by being born to Yondaime. It is not like Naruto displayed his amazing Yondaime-inherited abilities since his birth, by being the last in everything he had done before. Naruto came to the world to become a loser for the most of his life until now, and carrying Yondaime's genetics has done nothing to help with that. Naruto has been told as nothing like his father. So, I cannot but that argument, he is what he is because of the genes he received from his father (at least not for now). Naruto has become the person he is because of his hard work and the beast he carries within.


Naruto has already become strong and able enough to be considered as a 1st rate ninja, at least by Kakashi, who we can trust his opinion, I believe. And, Tsunade already verified that she accepted Naruto's destiny. So, what we have here, based on Jiraiya's comments, is another opinion that strengthens that. Until now, any success Naruto has achieved is a step towards that destiny. Anyway, I don't see why you consider Jiraiya's words as something bad. If Sasuke is god-like right now, have you thought even for a single second that the story will end before Naruto either reaches or exceeds that level? I personally haven't. Also, Jiraiya's opinion seems to be just going to be revealed to us, as those words were shared by us and Jiraiya, only.

On the scroll: If the scroll would have solved everything, Jiraiya would have already done that during their 2.5 years worth of training. So, it is not going to be easy. Naruto has to figure out the secret to that scroll himself. And, have you ever seen Naruto gaining something like MS in a god-like speed? I don't remember and I don't think he was ever portrayed to do that. Even his special bunshin-based training put the most emphasis on his hard work.

Though, there is only one exception, and that is Kyuubi. If the secret to that scroll is some kind of deal with Kyuubi, I don't see any wrong in that. At least, it will be achieved with the help of a power-limitless beast instead of a genetically received eye. And, if anyone would have a problem with that, it is not going to be something that I will share, that is for sure.

-Ah but you are looking at it from the perspective of the Narutoverse itself, as in through the eyes of how other characters perceive Naruto. The perspective I am talking about is that of us, the audience. Obviously for the purpose of the story Naruto being related to Yondaime Hokage hasn't done anything for him other than getting a demonic kitsune attached to his very soul. Everything else he gained from his own determination. This would be your view/statement wouldn't it? But look at it from the audience's point of view: Naruto was previously someone who as far as we knew was a complete nothing with a pretty decent power-up that would wow us when he showed great ingenuity. And it was during those moments, when his heritage was still unconfirmed to us, that his character truly shined and we could forgive his mishaps and mistakes. But now we know who his dear mother and father are our view of his "failures and slow growth" are unwanted, pathetic, humourless and some other mean words I don't feel like typing. Simply put now that we know which X and Y chromosome were used to conceive the being known as Uzumaki Naruto our expectations for him are set so high that when he achieves the desired result it just ends up being a mediocre experience at best. But if Kishimoto had kept his mouth shut about Naruto's mama and papa then Naruto's achievements would have been all the more favourably received and in my opinion seem like the "shit". I mean really didn't the fact that Naruto is Yondaime's offspring make him out to be Yondaime's less successful carbon copy? The only thing Naruto succeeded where his father did not (or never got a chance to) was molding his natural elemental affinity into the incomplete Rasengan, a feat that would have sounded so much better if his parents were still unknown.

-Well I suppose that is all I have to say for my side of the argument for the time being. Who knows, perhaps I am being too critical of the author's decisions and choices but this is the way I see it.

[Goshin]

I'm going to miss you jiraiya :( you were the coolest character in naruto period.

Kushina's hair is so long....and its suppose to be red right... i can't wait to see her colored

[ChojinLocke]

While I agree that Naruto was meant to be a moronic superhero in his own right and that those extra credentials (not necessarily harm his build up but) dont add something new to his character I also dont think it couldnt stay a secret forever that Naruto was the son of the 4th. It is a key plot element for Naruto to be distinguished among the ninjas for his heritage, credentials and the Kyubi as the best gift for Christmas. Yes it would be better if he wasnt over qualified (I dont say overpowered because Sasuke is more overpowered) and that he was a no name who made his own destiny rather than be granted everything on a silver platter (here my son take the kyubi and use a billion kage bunshins to good effect. Later on Jiraya will teach you the Rasengan and when you unlock the full potential within you and Kyubi you will be unstoppable just like my cousin Goku (that means genki dama rasengan just focus your mind on the universe)). At any rate it's too late now...it's towards the end of the series because once Naruto unlocks the full power of Kyubi all other characters will have reached their prime too and it will slowly finish. But before that happens we might have a new timeskip.

Naruto's character development in the show called NARUTO has been Kishimoto's greatest failure.

[Nintendo]

i think its time for naruto to train his ass off.....dare i say another time skip?

[Charlo]

Wait. Sakura looks like Kushina and Naruto looks like his father... It must be a sign!

[2H-Dragon]

Wait. Sakura looks like Kushina and Naruto looks like his father... It must be a sign!

OMG Epic plot twist they are actually a set of twins separated at birth?!

It'd be awesome if that was true. >_> <_<

[naruto89]

http://jv1dlg.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFd_9mkGGfetavX7BfgSFTkH21lN6q1qdGJyo0Obn3YnL97O IXt2CkM2G5UScWbdtvDW658Yo7DwT88cqAehypQ/Image.jpg

Chiyo anyone?

[Naruto_spartan]

no he is lame cuz he cannot do things by himself....everybody uses help if necessary but up to that point they try to survive with what they got...when x chars taijutsu sux he/she covers it ith genjutsu or ninjutsu...where they lack brain they use power...and naruto?

he uses kage bunshin, when it fails he uses it more...when that fails too he uses rasengan...after that kyubi...which come to...he basically always uses kyubi...and he cannot cover any of his mistakes or bad skills...

do you really think that jiraiyas death and his scroll would give naruto what he neeeds to survive and kill pein (at least handle him) or naruto needs an over all 15 -20 chapter of training for maturing and getting powerfull enough in all 3 areas ? (nin gen and taijutsu)

What makes you think even for a moment that so many people help him? Just give me a few examples where someone really had to help him?
Rasengan from Jiraiya? How? He had to figure most of it by himself. He had to work by himself and he had to use his own style.
Till now he didn't really need Hinata or Sakura.... He can heal himself very fast, he has more confidence then all the people in the world. He doesn't know Hinata loves him, and you say yourself that Naruto found Sasuke with his clones.
Kakashi didn't help him with anything, he only told him information that most ninja are told from their families or masters, Naruto has non. Kakashi only gave Naruto some advice.
Yamato only helps Naruto not because it was the people of Konoha who put the Kyuubi in him, so this is only a very small fraction of all the pain they caused him.
Tsunade didn't really help Naruto at all. Naruto would have eventually left Konoha on his own to "save" Sasuke. And as for doing everything he wants? where did that come from?
Kiba, Shino, Hinata have proved useless so far, except for only a little advice of encouragement from Hinata, that she repaind to Naruto from the prelimenary exams.
Shikamaru, didn't really help Naruto with anything, he was only back up once in a while. But Naruto did most of the work alone without his help.
And so on and so on.
Sai, I think only cougth on to Naruto to be his friend and help him in his mission, yet real help in Naruto's strength didn't come from him.
Sasuke, anyone can interpret that in one way or another. Naruto saw it as a determinating proof that he needs to become stronger and become a man. The same could be said about Jiraiya's death, if he will die.
See, Naruto didn't get real help from anyone regarding his development, he chose, walked and is still walking his own path. People only chose to redirect their path on to his, because Naruto's path seams to have the light that everyone seeks.
P.S. Kyuubi, the fact that it seams like Minato gave him this great power. I dodn't think that was the case, because there was/is an alternate reason for that. Naruto was cursed for the rest of his life, never to be what he could have been, denied most of his happiness. So Kyuubi's power is the reconciliation for all his unwilling sacrifice. You can also see Kiuuby as Naruto's own bloodlimit, because it has become part of him, just like the Sharingan, so why should he deny what he is? Why should Naruto not use the power as his own, the power that was seamingly carved in the deeapths of his soul?

[naruto89]

Can someone clear this up for me, wat is jiraya saying at the end of the chapter is he stating that naruto is the child of the prophecy of the toad sage or is he saying that he is the prophecy of the "i wont give up" ninja that jirara essentially prophesized in the book that minato was reading.

i apologize for the bad english in a rush ><

[The Small One]

OMG Epic plot twist they are actually a set of twins separated at birth?!

It'd be awesome if that was true. >_> <_<

I don't hope that Kishimoto will do this Star Wars copy on us.

[kodok_balls]

is it me or every body noticed. I have a feeling that pain's power is not so impressive. he just seems like a bunch of tricky ninja ambushing a single opponent. what is so impressive with that stabbing black sea weed. as far as we see his offensive moves are lame summon, fatty absorber and that black sea weed stabbing. this fight is farcry than I've expected. I'm also hoping jiraiya could blast some final devastating jutsu to kill pain or double ko like deidara's deed. perhaps it'd be frog inferno or final fantasy VII's ultima. In fact what he had is just genjutsu, though it was quite effective and powerful.what if 6 on 6. Jiraiya, tsunade, oro, kakashi, kabuto, yamato vs pain. I think it'll be a lil bit fair. so far deidara vs sasuke and 4 tailed naruto vs oro is the most impressive battle

[Naotaka]

is it me or every body noticed. I have a feeling that pain's power is not so impressive. he just seems like a bunch of tricky ninja ambushing a single opponent. what is so impressive with that stabbing black sea weed. as far as we see his offensive moves are lame summon, fatty absorber and that black sea weed stabbing. this fight is farcry than I've expected. I'm also hoping jiraiya could blast some final devastating jutsu to kill pain or double ko like deidara's deed. perhaps it'd be frog inferno or final fantasy VII's ultima. In fact what he had is just genjutsu, though it was quite effective and powerful.what if 6 on 6. Jiraiya, tsunade, oro, kakashi, kabuto, yamato vs pain. I think it'll be a lil bit fair. so far deidara vs sasuke and 4 tailed naruto vs oro is the most impressive battle

You don't pick on Kiba because he has a dog helping him, it's just something that goes as a part of his abilities, you don't pick on th puppet users because they use puppets, and say that's cheap, the odds aren't even. Or Naruto who makes kage bushins by the hundreds or thousands. Same thing here though. It's his ability, Pain is able to have 6 elite shinobi specialized in one field fight all at once. Not much different from a puppet user imo. So in a way, yea it's not omg that's so unique and awesome, but it's effective and it gets the job done. Plus for all we know he might not of went all out yet. In fact I'd bet on the fact that he has more tricks up his sleaves.

[kodok_balls]

yea...though ure rite. my point is kishi just try to made us a self perception regarding to pains power. it'll made us think...okay, so.. it was cool enough as a supervillain. but in fact that ability which kishi'd build or hyped not even impress our emotional excitement or affection...
and so sad for jiraiya if his dead not even forced pain to perform all his trick or show his full capacity.....

[Sabaku Kyu]

What makes you think even for a moment that so many people help him? Just give me a few examples where someone really had to help him?


Well, Naruto has received plenty of help. And yes, there are many times he would've failed without that help (he would've died against Kakuzu if Kakashi hadn't bailed him out). But tatami was trying to tout Naruto as being an inferior ninja because he relies on the help on others. That's an argument that totally fails because it applies to just about every single ninja we've seen fight. Sasuke, Kakashi, the Sannin, the Akatsuki members-- they've all relied on help from others. There is a reason shinobi work in teams.

Can someone clear this up for me, wat is jiraya saying at the end of the chapter is he stating that naruto is the child of the prophecy of the toad sage or is he saying that he is the prophecy of the "i wont give up" ninja that jirara essentially prophesized in the book that minato was reading.

i apologize for the bad english in a rush ><

They're the same thing. The toad sage prophesized both the child that Jiraiya would teach and that Jiraiya would write the book which reflected the child's life.

Plus for all we know he might not of went all out yet. In fact I'd bet on the fact that he has more tricks up his sleaves.

I agree, all the enemies' abilites are never revealed in the first fight. Each of those bodies has a special technique and we've only seen the abilites of two (I'm assuming that the body Jiraiya kicked in the face does have a special jutsu but did not show it). The abilites of the other bodies will be revealed in the later fights

[Naotaka]

^ To be honest I was thinking outside of the 6 body specialties themselves. But yes, thank you for reminding me that we've only actually seen 2 of the 6 bodies actually do anything. Kind of sad that I blanked out on that part, when it's being shown through out the last few chapters.
Deh deh deh...

I wonder though since the body that does the summons is now being taken to Konoha. A new body that will eventually takes it's place, will it have the same jitsu somehow installed into it also, or will it use something completly different.

[xAdvo]

The identity of Pein might lay in Jiraiyas book I'm guessing naruto is going to read it.. and train with the key to become a powerful shinobi.

[ragnos007]

Dont you think that it would be cool that when naruto learns of Jiraiyas death that he tears abit of the seal off that is holding the kyuubi inside him and ends up going 6 tails or something and speeds away to pain. :D

[kodok_balls]

^ To be honest I was thinking outside of the 6 body specialties themselves. But yes, thank you for reminding me that we've only actually seen 2 of the 6 bodies actually do anything. Kind of sad that I blanked out on that part, when it's being shown through out the last few chapters.
Deh deh deh...

I wonder though since the body that does the summons is now being taken to Konoha. A new body that will eventually takes it's place, will it have the same jitsu somehow installed into it also, or will it use something completly different.

so the conclusion is poor Jiraiya... while he is bleeding and dying his opponent yet to show his true ability. so what ability seems the remaining body had. a plastic man ability, stealth from the ground and choking ability, iron body ability, doesn't feel pain ability, mind reading ability.or else. hope the remaining ability are better than that. but one ability must be true is reviving the dead or cure ability...

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Yes that would be sick!...

Naruto...you know..it's his night. Sakura treats him.
Mom (Sakura's) gets home early...

Naruto and Sakura are caught..under the blankets. In the master bedroom. Sakura's mom. !!!
Sakura idiot! That's your cousin!

Sakura's mom being the sister of Naruto's mother would be funny...especially if it would be the same mother. Sakura being Naruto's stepsister.

[ragnos007]

The old man's gotta die!
It'll be naruto's motivation to become stronger

I agree. If you think that Sasuke leaving is a strong motivation for Naruto getting stronger, J-mans death will make him train with something like 10k clones :P for a week non stop :P then he will eat a shit load

[rpgkiller999]

It's interesting that Naruto's name came from the protagonist in Jiraya's book, I wonder if Jiraya really added all the 'hot stuff' to boost the sale after or it was a seperate novel he wrote.

So the real choice Jiraya made is to never give up? Or is it referring to what he wrote on Pa frog?

And... why would Pain co. watch and let Jiraya wrote the message? :rolleyes:

[tkdtiger]

i think its time for naruto to train his ass off.....dare i say another time skip?

I have a feeling there will be another time-skip too.

I wonder if the scroll that Jiraiya gives to Naruto allows him to learn to control Kyuubi even more, rather than be an automatic power-boost...he still has to train, but maybe it allows him to use Kyuubi without the dangerous side effects or something like that?

[Razz]

I want to see what happens with Sasuke and Itachi....

Kishi better not kill Itachi off, he has potential to grow as a character, perhaps even join Naruto and Sasuke to defeat Akatsuki/Madara.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

I hope another Bleach will avoided. Enemies are enemies. Not friends.

Itachi is a psycho...just like Sasuke. Kishi needs to get rid of them.
Jiraiya :mad:

[tatami]

What makes you think even for a moment that so many people help him? Just give me a few examples where someone really had to help him?
Rasengan from Jiraiya? How? He had to figure most of it by himself. He had to work by himself and he had to use his own style.
Till now he didn't really need Hinata or Sakura.... He can heal himself very fast, he has more confidence then all the people in the world. He doesn't know Hinata loves him, and you say yourself that Naruto found Sasuke with his clones.
Kakashi didn't help him with anything, he only told him information that most ninja are told from their families or masters, Naruto has non. Kakashi only gave Naruto some advice.
Yamato only helps Naruto not because it was the people of Konoha who put the Kyuubi in him, so this is only a very small fraction of all the pain they caused him.
Tsunade didn't really help Naruto at all. Naruto would have eventually left Konoha on his own to "save" Sasuke. And as for doing everything he wants? where did that come from?
Kiba, Shino, Hinata have proved useless so far, except for only a little advice of encouragement from Hinata, that she repaind to Naruto from the prelimenary exams.
Shikamaru, didn't really help Naruto with anything, he was only back up once in a while. But Naruto did most of the work alone without his help.
And so on and so on.
Sai, I think only cougth on to Naruto to be his friend and help him in his mission, yet real help in Naruto's strength didn't come from him.
Sasuke, anyone can interpret that in one way or another. Naruto saw it as a determinating proof that he needs to become stronger and become a man. The same could be said about Jiraiya's death, if he will die.
See, Naruto didn't get real help from anyone regarding his development, he chose, walked and is still walking his own path. People only chose to redirect their path on to his, because Naruto's path seams to have the light that everyone seeks.
P.S. Kyuubi, the fact that it seams like Minato gave him this great power. I dodn't think that was the case, because there was/is an alternate reason for that. Naruto was cursed for the rest of his life, never to be what he could have been, denied most of his happiness. So Kyuubi's power is the reconciliation for all his unwilling sacrifice. You can also see Kiuuby as Naruto's own bloodlimit, because it has become part of him, just like the Sharingan, so why should he deny what he is? Why should Naruto not use the power as his own, the power that was seamingly carved in the deeapths of his soul?

are you for real? he cant train himself properly , he cant fight properly , he doesnt have any brains in terms of tactics and stuff etc.. when was ever he didnt need somebodies help?

few examples for that :

gaara fight: help from sasuke
kakuzu fight : yamato and kakashi
deidara fight : kakashi
neji fight : kyuubi chakra ( for me this is getting help from kyubi )
sai fight : shika and chouji
orochimaru fight at bridge : yamato
itachi fight (yuura was it?) : kakashi chiyoba and sakura
haku fight : sasuke


these are the ones I remember right now.And i dont say that he cannot get any help from other...he can and he should but there are times that a char must shine on his own like lee vs naruto or kimi vs gaara , sasuke vs deidara sakura vs sasori , shika vs hidan and so...naruto didnt get that and moreover the time he should shine in the fight with kakuzu was a dissapointment...

rasengan: yes he did learn the technique by himself and in his own way but j man was there to make him understand how it works for dummies.and he did receive help from the cat and toilet :D

he doesnt need sakura to heal him but to back him up. to calm him and share his pain and stuff.

naruto found sasuke with his clones after others found him right?

kakashi did a lot for naruto.deal with it. he is like second jiraiya for naruto...he was able to create rasenshuriken just because of him.

yamato helps naruto cuz if he dont naruto would kill anything on narutoverse surface. he had to be there to control naruto.

tsunade is a B@#$ch of naruto. deal with his too.if you read the manga at all you can see it easily. tsunade let naruto to do whatever he wants.

Kiba, Shino, Hinata : maybe hinata but others have proven themselves more than naruto.

shika didnt helped naruto? cmon now...

i dont see kyuubi as narutos BL...cuz its not. and he couldnt even use it properly...gaara may be considered as it is but not naruto...

as i said before naruto should use if help is necessary but there is no need to be so dumb and especially he shouldnt need other characters major helps in his fights...

like in sasuke fight 1 on 1... it was naruto and naruto himself.I am not against him using kyubi as long as he is in control...still i would like him to fight on his own...

[Mists]

I don't care if Naruto had help for those fights. Many fights in pt2 involving were incomplete unlike Sakura & Chiyo vs Sasori, etc, etc...The kazuzu fight wasn't even complete, something weird happened, the Oro fight was not even complete...There hasn't been a satisfying naruto fight since pt 1, Naruto vs Sasuke (though that was a low rated one). Yet all the other characters get the spot light, Shika, Gaara, Sasuke, etc...

Naruto is about winning a fight with a cause, whether it's being helped or it's all him standing up for a cause. But lately, there really has been zilch for Naruto, and close to that on manga-time.

[tatami]

I don't care if Naruto had help for those fights. Many fights in pt2 involving were incomplete unlike Sakura & Chiyo vs Sasori, etc, etc...The kazuzu fight wasn't even complete, something weird happened, the Oro fight was not even complete...There hasn't been a satisfying naruto fight since pt 1, Naruto vs Sasuke (though that was a low rated one). Yet all the other characters get the spot light, Shika, Gaara, Sasuke, etc...

Naruto is about winning a fight with a cause, whether it's being helped or it's all him standing up for a cause. But lately, there really has been zilch for Naruto, and close to that on manga-time.

and now he will shine on pain all of a sudden...

[chord]

De-De-De to all the people who think that there is a body.
Cant you all read!!!
This spoiler said that Jeriah has the renigan now so he is one with Pein.
Who ever the hell thought that Pa or Ma toad would carry the body back to Tsunade is stupid with a capital ASS HOLE.
But you are so dumb....
Again DE-DE-DE.
The spoiler said that Jeriah sent Pa toad to tell Naruto that he had been defeated.
How stupid can you be.
Answer me this, can you all read?
Or even better can you all understand the words I'm typing to you!!!

[Mists]

and now he will shine on pain all of a sudden...

I actually can't imagine that...Pain is so overpowered I can only see Naruto and co trying to defeat him with Naruto obviously playing a key integral part in that, perhaps he dies saving Konoha and the world and the legacy of the Sannin, forth ends...but Hokage Kakashi remembers and it ends with a Konohamaru being quite the trouble maker in Konoha .

[Blaine]

De-De-De to all the people who think that there is a body.
Cant you all read!!!
This spoiler said that Jeriah has the renigan now so he is one with Pein.
Who ever the hell thought that Pa or Ma toad would carry the body back to Tsunade is stupid with a capital ASS HOLE.
But you are so dumb....
Again DE-DE-DE.
The spoiler said that Jeriah sent Pa toad to tell Naruto that he had been defeated.
How stupid can you be.
Answer me this, can you all read?
Or even better can you all understand the words I'm typing to you!!!

From what i've read that spoiler about jiraiya becoming one with pain is fake.

[Sabaku Kyu]

neji fight : kyuubi chakra ( for me this is getting help from kyubi )

That's ridiculous. Naruto is a jinchuuriki. The Kyuubi's power is his own power. It's no different than Gaara using the Shukaku's power to manipulate sand. Also, Naruto saved Sasuke in the fight against Gaara, not received help from him.


these are the ones I remember right now.And i dont say that he cannot get any help from other...he can and he should but there are times that a char must shine on his own like lee vs naruto or kimi vs gaara , sasuke vs deidara sakura vs sasori , shika vs hidan and so...naruto didnt get that and moreover the time he should shine in the fight with kakuzu was a dissapointment...

Your examples don't prove a point

-Lee was saved by Gaara when he fought Kimi.
-Gaara was saved by the fact that Kimi was sick (and he fought thanks to Shukaku's help of course, like always).
-Sasuke relied on Suigetsu to summon Manda back to a safe spot.
-Sakura wouldn't have lasted a second against Sasori without Chiyo
-Shika relied on Kakashi to get the blood in order to trick Hidan, plus he had Ino, Chouji helping.

need more examples?
-Kakashi needed Naruto and Sasuke to save him from Zabuza's water prison
-Zabuza needed Haku to save him from Kakashi
-Tsunade needed help from Jiraiya, Naruto and Shizune to defeat Kabuto
-Oro needed help from Kabuto to summon Manda
- Shino relies on his bugs
- Kiba relies on Akamaru

You completely ignore all the help other shinobi have received and neglect times where Naruto has fought on his own. He received no help against Kiba, Neji, Gaara or Sasuke at VoTE.

Naruto relies on help but he has also shown to be a powerful ninja on his own. Don't make it seem as though Naruto has never single-handedly accomplished anything unless you want to admit that every character who uses any power other than their own natural, birth-given power is "cheating".

[reloaded]

You completely ignore all the help other shinobi have received and neglect times where Naruto has fought on his own. He received no help against Kiba, Neji, Gaara or Sasuke at VoTE.

+
vs Kiba - no Kyuubi
vs Neji - relied on byakugan
vs Gaara(was really vs Shukaku)
vs Sasuke(Sasuke relied on CS2 and Sharingan + Naruto wasnt fighting to kill)

It isnt like Narutos opponents didnt use their powers aswell.

[Charlo]

OMG Epic plot twist they are actually a set of twins separated at birth?!

It'd be awesome if that was true. >_> <_<
...Actually, i didn't think of that XD bt, yeah, it would be amazing.

What i was thinking was that Minato (who looks like Naruto) and Kushina (who looks like Sakura) got a child together. Maybe Naruto and Sakura will do the same! : D *nah, it's probably just me being fangirlish*

[That Other Ninja]

Jiraiya went out like a pimp. I hope Naruto never gets with Sakura. EVER. So when he dies she'll feel like shit for all her shortcomings just as Tsunade will.

Bitches.

[Goshin]

like every one said...of course naruto gets help from other's sometimes. and there is nothing wrong with that. in fact , that is one of naruto's greatest ability/attribute, people that become naruto's friend quickly bilieve in him and lend him thier strenght. that is a great ability for a leader.

[mayhem]

Jiraiya went out like a pimp. I hope Naruto never gets with Sakura. EVER. So when he dies she'll feel like shit for all her shortcomings just as Tsunade will.

Bitches.

Sound like you have some issues involving women.

[Fukitsu Naruto]

Jiraiya went out like a pimp. I hope Naruto never gets with Sakura. EVER. So when he dies she'll feel like shit for all her shortcomings just as Tsunade will.

Bitches.

-Hey now unlike Tsunade Sakura actually went out with Naruto on a date once pre-Time Skip (even if it was just to whine about Sasuke's cry-me-a-river life) whereas Tsunade never gave Jiraiya the time of day. Sakura even "agreed" to go out with Naruto as long as he paid.

[tatami]

That's ridiculous. Naruto is a jinchuuriki. The Kyuubi's power is his own power. It's no different than Gaara using the Shukaku's power to manipulate sand. Also, Naruto saved Sasuke in the fight against Gaara, not received help from him.




Your examples don't prove a point

-Lee was saved by Gaara when he fought Kimi.
-Gaara was saved by the fact that Kimi was sick (and he fought thanks to Shukaku's help of course, like always).
-Sasuke relied on Suigetsu to summon Manda back to a safe spot.
-Sakura wouldn't have lasted a second against Sasori without Chiyo
-Shika relied on Kakashi to get the blood in order to trick Hidan, plus he had Ino, Chouji helping.

need more examples?
-Kakashi needed Naruto and Sasuke to save him from Zabuza's water prison
-Zabuza needed Haku to save him from Kakashi
-Tsunade needed help from Jiraiya, Naruto and Shizune to defeat Kabuto
-Oro needed help from Kabuto to summon Manda
- Shino relies on his bugs
- Kiba relies on Akamaru

You completely ignore all the help other shinobi have received and neglect times where Naruto has fought on his own. He received no help against Kiba, Neji, Gaara or Sasuke at VoTE.

Naruto relies on help but he has also shown to be a powerful ninja on his own. Don't make it seem as though Naruto has never single-handedly accomplished anything unless you want to admit that every character who uses any power other than their own natural, birth-given power is "cheating".

+
vs Kiba - no Kyuubi
vs Neji - relied on byakugan
vs Gaara(was really vs Shukaku)
vs Sasuke(Sasuke relied on CS2 and Sharingan + Naruto wasnt fighting to kill)

It isnt like Narutos opponents didnt use their powers aswell.

did you guys even tried to understand my post and my point? cuz someone did and understand what i as trying to say...

[Naotaka]

-Hey now unlike Tsunade Sakura actually went out with Naruto on a date once pre-Time Skip (even if it was just to whine about Sasuke's cry-me-a-river life) whereas Tsunade never gave Jiraiya the time of day. Sakura even "agreed" to go out with Naruto as long as he paid.

Actually before Jaraiya left for the Rain village to fight Pain, when he & Tsunade were talking he mentioned something about being dumped, and how it made him stronger. From the context of that conversation I belive he was reffering to her, dumping him before. Edit: Never mind guess this chapter does contradict that statement. O well....

As a side note, about how Naruto will defeat Pain. I think as everyone has pointed out, Naruto does get help. He won't do it alone. That's obvious. Naruto is more about hard work & team work then, being the "man" himself. What I think will happen kind of looking at this chapter is that, during the fight with Pain, the two will be talking, and Naruto will go on about how he is going to protect everyone even if it costs him his life. If Jaraiya's body is now a part of Pains this would make even more sence, since Naruto will probablly want to rescue him back too.

This will probablly create a flash back for Nagato, and eventually create some kind of a break down at one point or another, on how he might of failed to protect his friends and because of that became what he is now. That will magiclly be the turning point of the fight. With Nagato, realising he never actually grew up, and then Naruto and the group winning because of it. Don't know why but this is corny enough for Kisih's style of writing I can definetly see it happening.

[Fukitsu Naruto]

did you guys even tried to understand my post and my point? cuz someone did and understand what i as trying to say...

-You mean that Naruto should take on everything by himself and win without any external or internal help (this being the Kyuubi and any chakra). So you expect Naruto to win by standing there picking his nose while his oponents blow him all the way to Narnia, right?

[Sabaku Kyu]

did you guys even tried to understand my post and my point? cuz someone did and understand what i as trying to say...

Yes. I got your point. You want Naruto to fight without the Kyuubi (or better control of the Kyuubi) and not receive so much help.

But you're complaining like he's never fought without receiving help or going berserk when he has.

To demonstrate how you think Naruto should fight, you listed examples of fights where you claimed other characters didn't receive help when they did in fact receive help. Then you listed fights where you claimed Naruto received help when he received no help at all.

And somehow, you came under the impression that Naruto doesn't use his bijuu "properly" while Gaara does. They're both jinchuuriki. How can you accept how one uses his powers and reject how the other one uses theirs?

And using those examples you claim that Naruto has no potential to become a fighter who can match a shinobi as good as Pein, when he's become strong enough to fight seemingly unbeatable enemies before...single-handedly...without going berserk. So logically, why can't he advance to a level where he can beat Pein, like he became strong enough to beat Neji and Gaara.

[Geta]

It also seems that Kakashi and co. needed his help when fighting Kakazu. Truthfully, I never really saw naruto as an amazing character, but its a lot easier to like him, and see him in all his glory when people like Tatami try to point out his shortcomings, and fail. Thanks Tatami, Naruto is now one of my favorite characters in the manga!

[zepkox]

I don't see the problem with Naruto getting help from others. I wouldn't really call it help either.
Kakashi mentioned a word at the very beginning of the series..."teamwork" I think it was called.
But its true, Naruto hasn't had a chance to shine yet after the time-skip because the focus has been taken away from him. Once the focus is back to Naruto, I'm sure Kishi will give a good reason as to why the show is named Naruto.

This will probablly create a flash back for Nagato, and eventually create some kind of a break down at one point or another, on how he might of failed to protect his friends and because of that became what he is now. That will magiclly be the turning point of the fight. With Nagato, realising he never actually grew up, and then Naruto and the group winning because of it. Don't know why but this is corny enough for Kisih's style of writing I can definetly see it happening.
Funnily enough I can see that happening too. I can't remember seeing any fights where Kishi just gave them power-up power-up and power-ups to win. (Excluding supersaiyan Lee, but he lost to Gaara anyway).


Edit: I thought I'll just add this because my non-sense of humor finds it funny
I knew it all along that Minato must be a perv! C'mon look, he reads Jiraiya's books.
Let's look at the history:
Sandaime is a perv -> Jiraiya's a big one -> Yondaime...
Then the younger generation:
Kakashi -> Naruto (slightly hinted somewhere...peaking on Sakura or something)
So what are the chances for Yondaime being one? ...Follow the trend...
This chapter has just proved my theory that I've had ages ago lol :p

[Sazelyt]

Naruto was previously someone who as far as we knew was a complete nothing with a pretty decent power-up that would wow us when he showed great ingenuity. And it was during those moments, when his heritage was still unconfirmed to us, that his character truly shined and we could forgive his mishaps and mistakes. But now we know who his dear mother and father are our view of his "failures and slow growth" are unwanted, pathetic, humourless and some other mean words I don't feel like typing. Simply put now that we know which X and Y chromosome were used to conceive the being known as Uzumaki Naruto our expectations for him are set so high that when he achieves the desired result it just ends up being a mediocre experience at best. Since the beginning the expected result for him was to become the greatest Hokage. when he achieves that result how will it not satisfy you? I mean, is there a position higher than being the greatest Hokage? He will even exceed his own father in this aspect. Conforming the basic idea of the second part, going above the previous generation...

And is there be a better way to achieve that title than stopping Pein's plan? Even Yondaime dealt with only one part of that plan, Kyuubi. Naruto has to deal with, probably, the originator of that plan, something at a higher level. At the end, how can you assume that to be mediocre at best? I really wonder how your expectations have changed based on that information.

But if Kishimoto had kept his mouth shut about Naruto's mama and papa then Naruto's achievements would have been all the more favourably received and in my opinion seem like the "shit". I mean really didn't the fact that Naruto is Yondaime's offspring make him out to be Yondaime's less successful carbon copy? The only thing Naruto succeeded where his father did not (or never got a chance to) was molding his natural elemental affinity into the incomplete Rasengan, a feat that would have sounded so much better if his parents were still unknown.Naruto is not Yondaime's copy. We have heard Tsunade (I guess) talking about Naruto's parents, and telling us Naruto reminding his mother instead of his father. And, even before, when Jiraiya first compared Naruto to his father in front of audience, it was never like him being a copy of Yondaime. The only aspect of him similar to his papa would be his speaking actions of never giving up. He is not a genius as his father, he is not an incredibly talented person in the way his father was. He is not smart as his father was. Having learned of him being Yondaime's son didn't make him more intelligent, smarter, more talented, etc. Even learning that didn't make him closer to the Hokage position compared to how close he was before.

I am really getting the feeling that, it was assumed as if Naruto staying as a leftover thrown away misbegotten till the end of the story would make him a greater hero than becoming the child of a reasonable and related family.

[That Other Ninja]

Sound like you have some issues involving women.
Yeah it's called JOKEITIS.

-Hey now unlike Tsunade Sakura actually went out with Naruto on a date once pre-Time Skip (even if it was just to whine about Sasuke's cry-me-a-river life) whereas Tsunade never gave Jiraiya the time of day. Sakura even "agreed" to go out with Naruto as long as he paid.
Sorry, but that's worse than not going out with him at all. Stringing Naruto along while emptying his frog-wallet is what bitches do i.e. Haruno Sakura. "Oh... so you won't be my girlfriend but you're willing to go out 'casually' if i pay?" Pfffffft. This is why I said my joke in the first place, because that's bullshit.

[BlackShinobi07]

Yeah it's called JOKEITIS.


Sorry, but that's worse than not going out with him at all. Stringing Naruto along while emptying his frog-wallet is what bitches do i.e. Haruno Sakura. "Oh... so you won't be my girlfriend but you're willing to go out 'casually' if i pay?" Pfffffft. This is why I said my joke in the first place, because that's bullshit.
lol. I agree man.

[DeDe]

I am really getting the feeling that, it was assumed as if Naruto staying as a leftover thrown away misbegotten till the end of the story would make him a greater hero than becoming the child of a reasonable and related family.

A lot of people like the underdog hero. They are much easier to root for. The guy that came from nothing who overcame all the odds. Naruto started out that way, but has now moved into sort of a young prince fulfilling his destiny story. Someone who was destined for greatness since birth. So I don't blame anyone for viewing Naruto and his accomplishments differently now.

.What i was thinking was that Minato (who looks like Naruto) and Kushina (who looks like Sakura) got a child together. Maybe Naruto and Sakura will do the same! : D *nah, it's probably just me being fangirlish*
NaruSaku definitely got a huge boost in this chapter, IMO. Not only the resemblance between Minato/Kushnia and Naruto/Sakura, but also with Jiraiya. It seems Naruto will succeed where Jiraiya failed.

Jiraiya could not get the girl he loved(Tsunade) Could not save his friend(Orochimaru). Could not protect his students or teacher(Nagato, Konan, Minato, etc)

Naruto will likely make up for Jiraiya's failures. And to do that he will have to win over Sakura and have the relationship with her that Jiraiya always wanted with Tsunade. I like NaruHina a lot, but right now, Hinata seems out in the cold. If Kishimoto is doing NaruHina, then he is certainly not leaving any hints for it. Everything points to Naruto with Sakura.

[Mists]

just read the chapter, wow what a powerful chapter. I guess I was wrong about Jiaraya becoming part of Pain (yet). It honestly wouldn't make sense if he doesn't become part of Pain.

The spears disrupts chakara as we learned last chapter, and Jiaraya could feel the Rinnegan coming on him (or at least it looked that way)...

Anyone notice that the first page looked like the 4th was staring upon Jiaraya's fallen body? I don't know if that was intentional...

Kudos to Kishi, what a chapter....haven't been such a good chapter of someone's death since....well I can't really remember. Deidei's was good, but I'd say this matches up almost to Haku's death and close to Zabuza. It can only get more tense here on out and better...(Asuma's death really really sucked, although in reality it was okay)

Especially if Pain does take the body. I wonder if he has the body of every individual defeated, perhaps there are more than 6 bodies...perhaps the key is to find out where Nagato actually resides to defeat him, rather than destroy all bodies.

It seems like Pain feeds off of strong shinobi who is worthy to fight him, perhaps he would rather take Naruto into that collection before the world gets destroyed?

Well, looks like the story is wrapping up...it'd probably go for one more full year and then end in '09 sometime. Or maybe not? Perhaps we are witnessing the final arc right now as Tobi is seeing Konoha, Itachi and Sasuke, etc...and Pain will head off for Naruto?

But perhaps there are other revelations to resolve...I have a feeling the Kyubi killed Kushina and out of desperation to save the rest of Konoha the 4th sealed the Kyubi in his son. Perhaps he lived seeing his Kyubified son for only a moment and put his and his wife's will into him.

[Sazelyt]

A lot of people like the underdog hero. They are much easier to root for. The guy that came from nothing who overcame all the odds. Naruto started out that way, but has now moved into sort of a young prince fulfilling his destiny story. Someone who was destined for greatness since birth. So I don't blame anyone for viewing Naruto and his accomplishments differently now.That would only be true if he had lived his life accordingly. That is not the case. He has never lived as a prince. On the opposite, despite his family, he has lived as a trashable person in his village. How is that related to being a prince?

Being the son of Yondaime has not granted him any additional advantage other than the sealing of Kyuubi. And, that has been known since the beginning of the story. His goal - destiny of becoming the greatest Hokage - and him being the main character of the story that would allow him fulfill his goal have also been known since the beginning. If I am not mistaken his desires and destiny are unfortunately created by him being treated as a trash in his village.

Please explain how the genetics of Yondaime and being the beggar turned into prince had helped him in his achievements.

Or how about because Kakashi was the son of White Fang, let's make him a Hokage. He is the prince after all, right, who has achieved everything including the success of having grown a miniscule chakra capacity thanks to his father?

[MrRamen_]

OMFG!!!!


Jiraiya is gone. RIP yo. Sensei.
[Pause in silence]


:(:(:(:(

[Naotaka]

Finally read the full translated version. Damn I feel even worse for good ol J-man then before. Can't belive he went out like that. His death really better have some increadible significance later on, not just Naruto gets pissed and trains really hard. I mean a really significant development happens because of this, otherwise i'm going to get rather annoyed that he got punked this way just so Naruto can get stronger. It was definetly a good chapter, but I wish they would of confirmed Pain's true identity once and for all instead of making us assume who it is. Can't wait for the next one.

Also why was never giving up the hard choise Jaraiya had to make? I mean I kind of understand it, but I think there is something more to this, then just setting an example, or was it to not give up so that he could get enough will power to temporarily revive himself and give Pa some message before he died? Anyone have a good answear for this?

[That Other Ninja]

How will Orochimaru feel once he returns and learns of his friend's death?

[tatami]

Yes. I got your point. You want Naruto to fight without the Kyuubi (or better control of the Kyuubi) and not receive so much help.

But you're complaining like he's never fought without receiving help or going berserk when he has.

To demonstrate how you think Naruto should fight, you listed examples of fights where you claimed other characters didn't receive help when they did in fact receive help. Then you listed fights where you claimed Naruto received help when he received no help at all.

And somehow, you came under the impression that Naruto doesn't use his bijuu "properly" while Gaara does. They're both jinchuuriki. How can you accept how one uses his powers and reject how the other one uses theirs?

And using those examples you claim that Naruto has no potential to become a fighter who can match a shinobi as good as Pein, when he's become strong enough to fight seemingly unbeatable enemies before...single-handedly...without going berserk. So logically, why can't he advance to a level where he can beat Pein, like he became strong enough to beat Neji and Gaara.

well not without help or without kyuubi...but yes a better control on kyubi chakra like gaara does with shuukaku (spelling?)

and about help part: he should use help but not in this way...i mean kakashi used halp in zabuza fight right? cuz he needed it, also in kakuzu fight too...but the way naruto uses help and needing help is pathetic in compare to others...other people use help cuz they need it but naruto oftenly use help cuz he is dumb to understand things or he is so dumb to do it himself...thats what i dont like...not that he uses help but the way he uses it.

about pein: no actually I believe he has potential then anybody else...thanks to his training style he can be the youngest hokage and most powerful one in history...but...

this is a big but...naruto right now handling pein is nonsense...people say that he will get an upgrade or will mature more after the death of j man...cmon now...maybe in 1-2 years of training with some special nins like kakashi yamato or gai to sharpen his skills in every aspect, i would believe him defeating pein.he has potential...but not right now...

sure he will get a power up...i dont know what it is it could be control over kyubi or completing his jutsu but whatever it is a single power up wont be enough to defeat pein and if its 1 on 1 like in j mans situation how long do you think naruto will last?

if suddenly he starts using kagebunshins properly as in kakuzu case , will it be enough?
rasengan and other variations may be useless against him as we know...summons wont work against him (dunno what happens if gamabunta appears tho)
he cant use genjutsu, his ninjutsu is limited and taijutsu is not a choice...

so 1 on 1 fight is hopeless (imo) and if it turns out to be multiple nins vs pein it will be boring to watch people save naruto again and again while naruto is fighting pein...


i dont know...i never let my hopes down about kishi and i am still believing it will be a good fight but i am so bored to see naruto dumb...just give him a proper fight of his own like sasuke...

[Fran~]

i'm crying... not for J-man but for the whole chapter... Kishi... you made me cry...

11/10 for the chapter...

[Fukitsu Naruto]

Since the beginning the expected result for him was to become the greatest Hokage. when he achieves that result how will it not satisfy you? I mean, is there a position higher than being the greatest Hokage? He will even exceed his own father in this aspect. Conforming the basic idea of the second part, going above the previous generation...

And is there be a better way to achieve that title than stopping Pein's plan? Even Yondaime dealt with only one part of that plan, Kyuubi. Naruto has to deal with, probably, the originator of that plan, something at a higher level. At the end, how can you assume that to be mediocre at best? I really wonder how your expectations have changed based on that information.

Naruto is not Yondaime's copy. We have heard Tsunade (I guess) talking about Naruto's parents, and telling us Naruto reminding his mother instead of his father. And, even before, when Jiraiya first compared Naruto to his father in front of audience, it was never like him being a copy of Yondaime. The only aspect of him similar to his papa would be his speaking actions of never giving up. He is not a genius as his father, he is not an incredibly talented person in the way his father was. He is not smart as his father was. Having learned of him being Yondaime's son didn't make him more intelligent, smarter, more talented, etc. Even learning that didn't make him closer to the Hokage position compared to how close he was before.

I am really getting the feeling that, it was assumed as if Naruto staying as a leftover thrown away misbegotten till the end of the story would make him a greater hero than becoming the child of a reasonable and related family.

A lot of people like the underdog hero. They are much easier to root for. The guy that came from nothing who overcame all the odds. Naruto started out that way, but has now moved into sort of a young prince fulfilling his destiny story. Someone who was destined for greatness since birth. So I don't blame anyone for viewing Naruto and his accomplishments differently now.

-As DeDe so kindly put it in the above post it's not that the character that is known as Uzumaki Naruto changed with the whole "Yondaime is his father" reveation but rather the audience's perception of him has in fact changed. For so long we were led to believe that Naruto's parents were a mystery and nothing was concrete and to be perfectly honest that grew on me. This was the character I came to know and love, a loud-mouth-moron with a heart of gold and the determination to succeed regardless of what obstacle stood in his path. But now, with that revelation firmly beaten into my head, all of his success feels so "blase", "stale" and "downplayed" almost like they are a sort of standard for the son of such a famous historical figure. If I had to put in a sort of fairy tale metaphor I would use the typical scenario of the maiden and the ugly frog. You know the one: big-time beatiful maiden has to kiss an ugly frog. At first she rejects the advances of the frog due to his image until he grows on her. Then she gives him a kiss and surprise it turns out to be a prince in disguise. But here's the problem that I have, the maiden (in this case being a representation of me and the audience) fell in love with the ugly frog (this representing Naruto prior to his heritage being revealed) not some prissy prince that appears in a flash and within 2 seconds destroys the whole principle that the ugly frog before him has worked to establish and the goal he accomplished. I am sorry but knowing for a fact that Naruto isn't the son of some nameless dude and gal (rather that it is the opposite) just puts him in a comletely different light/perspective.

[Ban kai]

we already knew that the forth was naruto's father, but know we no for sure

[BlackShinobi07]

i'm crying... not for J-man but for the whole chapter... Kishi... you made me cry...

11/10 for the chapter...
Yep. Really touching. So sad to see J-man in that state. If I was Jiraiya though I would be conserned leaving the fate of the world in narutos hands. I was a little surprised Jiraiya was the one who named Naruto, though. It wasnt even intentional. He actually came up with the name while eating ramen which Naruto can't get enough of. What are the odds??

I wonder what Jiraiya wrote on the frogs back, if thats what he did?

Anyway it was a great chapter. It didn't move the story much, but we got to see the fourth and thats always a plus.

On a side note, could the fourth have known Naruto was the destined child, and for that reason is why he chose Naruto as the kyuubis vessal?

[Naotaka]

well not without help or without kyuubi...but yes a better control on kyubi chakra like gaara does with shuukaku (spelling?)

and about help part: he should use help but not in this way...i mean kakashi used halp in zabuza fight right? cuz he needed it, also in kakuzu fight too...but the way naruto uses help and needing help is pathetic in compare to others...other people use help cuz they need it but naruto oftenly use help cuz he is dumb to understand things or he is so dumb to do it himself...thats what i dont like...not that he uses help but the way he uses it.

about pein: no actually I believe he has potential then anybody else...thanks to his training style he can be the youngest hokage and most powerful one in history...but...

this is a big but...naruto right now handling pein is nonsense...people say that he will get an upgrade or will mature more after the death of j man...cmon now...maybe in 1-2 years of training with some special nins like kakashi yamato or gai to sharpen his skills in every aspect, i would believe him defeating pein.he has potential...but not right now...

sure he will get a power up...i dont know what it is it could be control over kyubi or completing his jutsu but whatever it is a single power up wont be enough to defeat pein and if its 1 on 1 like in j mans situation how long do you think naruto will last?

if suddenly he starts using kagebunshins properly as in kakuzu case , will it be enough?
rasengan and other variations may be useless against him as we know...summons wont work against him (dunno what happens if gamabunta appears tho)
he cant use genjutsu, his ninjutsu is limited and taijutsu is not a choice...

so 1 on 1 fight is hopeless (imo) and if it turns out to be multiple nins vs pein it will be boring to watch people save naruto again and again while naruto is fighting pein...


i dont know...i never let my hopes down about kishi and i am still believing it will be a good fight but i am so bored to see naruto dumb...just give him a proper fight of his own like sasuke...

1) The difference between Gaara's Buuji(spelling?) and Naruto's is the strengh tailed beasts is said to be determined by the number of tails the Buuji has. Gaara's only had 1 tail, while Naruto's had the maximum of all 9 tails. Also Gaara's Buuji did not have it's chakra split in Yin & Yang. The fact that Naruto has to control a stronger demon fox compared to Gaara's would be one reason for him going berserk more often. The other fact could be the chakra of the demon fox being split also make it harder to control since the chakra is no longer balanced. We don't know if the last thing is the case, but it's just not the same when comparing the two Buuji togather. Plus Gaara himself would go berserk just like Naruto. Gaara killed to satisfy his rage, where as Naruto could actually control it to some degree. Take a look at the fight with Haku. After Naruto broke his mirrors, he was able to become himself again. Instead of going on a rampage.

2) If Naruto wasn't dumb, then he wouldn't need any help. He's already got more chakra then anyone else in Konoha, probablly the strongest single jitsu now, and the demon fox's help if need be. He is progressing at a fast rate. Being dumb is a weakness. If it wasn't for that then the story would kind of suck. He'd be to powerful for the group in a short span of time, and really wouldn't need them. Yet the supporting cast is what makes this a good story. What would be the point of Kakashi, Sai, Yamato, Sasuke, Neji, Lee, Sakura, Shikamaru? I mean if it was your way, Naruto would beat everyone down to a pulp with his intellect & superior skill. The demon fox's chakra would heal him, and then what? He'd need someone like Hinata or Kiba for tracking, no wait no he wouldn't he'd make a thousand cloans and split them up to find what he needs. End of Story.

The way it is right now every shinobi has a weak point, wheather it's low chakra, being weak, being dumb, mentally unstable or what not, but every character needs and has a weakness. Some havent' been shown as blatently as others, but I assure you, there is not one perfect ninja out there. Itachi & Sasuke might seem like gods right now, (that would explain the amount of fan boys they have) but I'm pretty sure they're going to have a very big weakness shown at some point in the near future also.

[Fran~]

On a side note, could the fourth have known Naruto was the destined child, and for that reason is why he chose Naruto as the kyuubis vessal?

He told something about it before... remember when J-man summoned that frog and even talked about Madara? (after he interrogates 2 ninjas of Pain). Remember that Jiraiya was Minato's Sensei AND Minato also summoned frogs...

[Sazelyt]

For so long we were led to believe that Naruto's parents were a mystery and nothing was concrete and to be perfectly honest that grew on me. This was the character I came to know and love, a loud-mouth-moron with a heart of gold and the determination to succeed regardless of what obstacle stood in his path. But now, with that revelation firmly beaten into my head, all of his success feels so "blase", "stale" and "downplayed" almost like they are a sort of standard for the son of such a famous historical figure. I honestly don't get this reasoning. Naruto, "despite his lineage", suffered a lot and overcome the difficulties he faced on his own power. Compared to before, it would even seem more reasonable if he should be sympathized more, because of his own pitiful story.

If I had to put in a sort of fairy tale metaphor I would use the typical scenario of the maiden and the ugly frog. You know the one: big-time beatiful maiden has to kiss an ugly frog. At first she rejects the advances of the frog due to his image until he grows on her. Then she gives him a kiss and surprise it turns out to be a prince in disguise. There is a problem with that example. Naruto is not a prince in disguise of waiting to be changed immediately after a little close encounter. What you should use is, the maiden has to kiss all over the frog for a few years continuously, without giving a single break other than the occasional breathing, to make the prince appear.

But here's the problem that I have, the maiden (in this case being a representation of me and the audience) fell in love with the ugly frog (this representing Naruto prior to his heritage being revealed) not some prissy prince that appears in a flash and within 2 seconds destroys the whole principle that the ugly frog before him has worked to establish and the goal he accomplished.Let me ask you this (maybe a repetition). After this revelation, did the frog instantly become the prince in all his qualities, or is he still the frog that you have been seeing since the beginning? Nothing has changed compared to before. This is not like the Uchihas growing a new sharingan after facing a new obstacle. Not that I agree with, but, at best you can say that he has learned the availability of a new sharingan.

[BlackShinobi07]

He told something about it before... remember when J-man summoned that frog and even talked about Madara? (after he interrogates 2 ninjas of Pain). Remember that Jiraiya was Minato's Sensei AND Minato also summoned frogs...
I know. Thats the conversation I was think about. Maybe the 4th knew about Naruto being the destined child. Right now, its the only reason I can see as to why he chose Naruto as a vessal.

[That Other Ninja]

Itachi & Sasuke might seem like gods right now, (that would explain the amount of fan boys they have) but I'm pretty sure they're going to have a very big weakness shown at some point in the near future also.
Not necessarily being a weakness persay, Sasuke's imperfection is already apparent. That being hubris.

[chitgoks]

tsk jiraiya's gone.. oh well.. he proved he was stronger than pain anyway.. it was 6 vs 1.5 after all. .5 would be the frogs haha

[Kenu]

This is... I can't believe it...


This is not how I envisaged the Jiraiya dying..

This is so sad.

I can't believe Kishimoto let Jiraiya go so cheaply....

[Naruto_spartan]

are you for real? he cant train himself properly , he cant fight properly , he doesnt have any brains in terms of tactics and stuff etc.. when was ever he didnt need somebodies help?

few examples for that :

gaara fight: help from sasuke
kakuzu fight : yamato and kakashi
deidara fight : kakashi
neji fight : kyuubi chakra ( for me this is getting help from kyubi )
sai fight : shika and chouji
orochimaru fight at bridge : yamato
itachi fight (yuura was it?) : kakashi chiyoba and sakura
haku fight : sasuke


these are the ones I remember right now.And i dont say that he cannot get any help from other...he can and he should but there are times that a char must shine on his own like lee vs naruto or kimi vs gaara , sasuke vs deidara sakura vs sasori , shika vs hidan and so...naruto didnt get that and moreover the time he should shine in the fight with kakuzu was a dissapointment...

rasengan: yes he did learn the technique by himself and in his own way but j man was there to make him understand how it works for dummies.and he did receive help from the cat and toilet :D

he doesnt need sakura to heal him but to back him up. to calm him and share his pain and stuff.

naruto found sasuke with his clones after others found him right?

kakashi did a lot for naruto.deal with it. he is like second jiraiya for naruto...he was able to create rasenshuriken just because of him.

yamato helps naruto cuz if he dont naruto would kill anything on narutoverse surface. he had to be there to control naruto.

tsunade is a B@#$ch of naruto. deal with his too.if you read the manga at all you can see it easily. tsunade let naruto to do whatever he wants.

Kiba, Shino, Hinata : maybe hinata but others have proven themselves more than naruto.

shika didnt helped naruto? cmon now...

i dont see kyuubi as narutos BL...cuz its not. and he couldnt even use it properly...gaara may be considered as it is but not naruto...

as i said before naruto should use if help is necessary but there is no need to be so dumb and especially he shouldnt need other characters major helps in his fights...

like in sasuke fight 1 on 1... it was naruto and naruto himself.I am not against him using kyubi as long as he is in control...still i would like him to fight on his own...

The fact that he doesn't know how to train is because he doesn't have the experience or the knowledge that shoould have been given from his parents. Every character has help in his/her training, even Sasuke or Neji.
You say he has no tactic, review Gaara and the first fight with Zabuza, as well as other of his battles, including Kakuzu. I agree, he didn't think ahead like Shikamaru, but he has fast witts and came up with a solution fast.

And in his fights, analize them more careduly, Sasuke didn't have any segnificant role in the fight, he just caried Naruto to recovery. and only watched him fight.
Didn't you hear what Tsunade said? Naruto basically damaged every cell in Kakuzu's body, one hit from that and Kakuzu would have lost all his hearts in one hit. Yamato did save Naruto once but he alone could have took on Kakuzu.

We really dodn't know how it would have turned out seeing as how Naruto healed quick and had stamina, he could have taken on as much damage as Gaara and heal from it in a few minutes. Kakashi did play a big role though, I admit that.

Like I said Naruto had the Kyuubi since the day he was born, it has become as much his source of power as a bloodlimit. And Naruto still had control, so that is his achievement.

Sai fight, it wasn't a fair fight, besides you can't really call it a fight, it was too short.

Naruto and Orochimaru.... Naruto would have vaporized Orochimaru, I agree that he had a little help from Kyuubi, but Yamato didn't do anything, he only watched. He only "helped"(surpresed the Kyuubi) when Naruto turned on them, although we dodn't know what would have happend.

Itachi fight, Kakashi couldn't take on Itachi without Naruto, Naruto might have had a chance if he made a few hundred clones.

Haku fight, the same, Sasuke only burned a little of Haku's clothes, he went in and NDE(near death experience), while Naruto went berserker, but still held control. So you can't say that he helped Naruto a lot.

Kakashi only gave Naruto hints on how to awaken his wind chakra, that is a given from any sensei to teach his students what they can do. Naruto invented the technique on his own. It's his own original attack.

[tatami]

well well so he burned the name on the lil frog?

and pein attacked his throath not to tell his identity?

so pain is someone we know from before?

or someone they know? (frogs)

will naruto face frogs before pein?

[0TaKu0]

I honestly don't get this reasoning. Naruto, "despite his lineage", suffered a lot and overcome the difficulties he faced on his own power. Compared to before, it would even seem more reasonable if he should be sympathized more, because of his own pitiful story.

I couldn’t agree with this more, not to mention, with all this “Naruto is a prince in disguise” and, “feels like they are a sort of standard for the son of such a famous historical figure“ stuff, I call shenanigans on you heathens! If all of this were true, Naruto would not have lived the life he did, things like “The way of the Ninja”, “I never go back on my word”, “Never give up”, “Hard work beats genius”, I can go on, but these things would never exist. Get it through your damn head that Naruto is no prince, never was, he’s definitely not a prodigy, he is a god damn hard worker. Most of all, he is definitely NOT a protégé of his former father and, is not expected to live up to his standards or, follow in his footsteps. Naruto’s accomplishments, foot steps and, path are his own because, he did not have the knowledge of what sort of human being his parents wanted him to be or, that he was the son of a historical figure or, where his own damn name came from. So, whoever / however he grew up to be and, what he has become has nothing to do with who his damn father was. I don’t see how Naruto's accomplishments feel any different or bland, simply because he is the son of the Minato because, once again it does not matter what "you" expect or, what "you" know now, Naruto did not and, still does not, know any of this. Hence, just like Sazelyt I just don’t understand nor, can I accept this sort of nonsense reasoning.

Seriously guys, don’t act like your surprised, you knew he was the destined child, you knew he was the main character, you knew he is the underdog and, by now you should definitely know how these Shounen manga's work, so stop hating. I mean seriously, why not get off your damn high chairs, I doubt we have a long time before the end of Naruto comes around the corner. So lets sit back, enjoy the ride and, stop all the bitching / whining about insignificant things that we already knew was going to be / happen since the start. I mean right now “your” just literally nitpicking, while totally undermining the semi-fact that this Manga might be coming to an end, so why not enjoy the twist / turns and, revelations as it unfolds. Essentially what I am trying to say is, WHO CARES? None the less I realize that what I suggest will never happen, mainly because this is a discussion board after all, so, all my attempts at this is futile. Hence, you guys do what you like, debate over unnecessary things, mindlessly nitpick at insignificant items, I’ll just post my usual thoughts.

Moving on, Oh my god! That was easily, one of the most epically moving chapters yet! I couldn’t help but feel for Jiraiya as he pounded him self worst then Pain and Co., with mere words of what a failure his life was. Jiraiya looked so bad ass with his hair all wild and untied however, I can’t help but feel that it is over for him, I mean his throat is caved in, how do you even recover from that (not to mention he has been impaled with 6 spikes in total). None the less, I can't believe Kishi decided not to give us even one hint, at Pains true Identity, however considering Jiraiya's mention that he must tell the Great Sage the true Identity of Pain before it is too late, makes me second guess if its even Nagato or Yahiko. I wonder who else it could be, the only other person who comes to mind is Rikudou, if it were not either of these three I think it might be a new person.

A little bit of Naruto revelation, that is always sweet! We finally learn how he received his name and, get a good look at his mother. It might be just me but, even though Sakura's character is some what fixated with Tsunade's character. If you imagine Kushina's hair as strawberry pink rather then red, she kind of looks like a older Sakura (as Minato looks like a older Naruto). I'm kind of surprised that the revelation of Kushina was not a color page, I guess we will have to wait for that. In any case I’m curious as to what information was transferred / burned to "Pa" before the chapter ended, he says "Ok, I got it all", I think aside from the Identity of Pain it might (I hope) contain a message for Naruto as well. I can’t wait till the next chapter, hopefully we will be enlightened with the transferred information (assuming it was).

In any case, like most I also hope Jiraiya some how lives however, its highly unlikely, its more then obvious that it is time for him to make his exit and, man, what an exit it is! Just have to love this line "The long tale comes to a violent end. Faced with his end, the main character refused to give up, still grasping that thread of hope tied to his last student...to Naruto!
"

>_< The end of Jiraiya, Ninja Chronicles.

[Fran~]

I can't believe Kishimoto let Jiraiya go so cheaply....
It wasnt cheaply... Kushina pregnant, the whole speech, all the flashbacks are priceless... i still have goosebumps... since Sandaime's death that i didn't have this feeling.

This chapter is EPIC... everybody will talk about T3H Chapter 382...

[Quzor]

A great chapter indeed. "An end befitting a true shinobi." This is one of the only times I can remember feeling both happy and sad at the end of a characters life (Sandaime and Asuma are the other two). The flashbacks were awesome as well. It was nice to finally see Kushina (man, she had some hair). I also thought it was pretty funny that he was named after a character in one of Jiraiya's first books. All in all, one of the best chapters as of late, and at all, in my personal opinion. I hope the rest of the series will be as good as this chapter was, though I doubt they'll be able to live up to the greatness that this chapter provided.

[Negs]

sweet lord, that chapter was sad! :(

[Fukitsu Naruto]

I honestly don't get this reasoning. Naruto, "despite his lineage", suffered a lot and overcome the difficulties he faced on his own power. Compared to before, it would even seem more reasonable if he should be sympathized more, because of his own pitiful story.

-What's not to get? Knowing that Naruto comes from a prestigious father downplays/minimizes the difficulties he has overcome despite the effort it took to actually achieve them. His fight with Haku, Kiba, Neji, Gaara, Sasuke and so on all seem like a moot point now that we know he was manufactured for greatness by being born to Yondaime Hokage as well as he actions his father took to do so.

There is a problem with that example. Naruto is not a prince in disguise of waiting to be changed immediately after a little close encounter. What you should use is, the maiden has to kiss all over the frog for a few years continuously, without giving a single break other than the occasional breathing, to make the prince appear.

-How is he not a prince in disguise (or if you prefer "in the the making") when we, the audience, know that he's the son of the greatest shinobi Konohagakure ever poduced but the people in the Narutoverse do not? Hell, even the person in question doesn't know the details let alone the rest of the cast.

Let me ask you this (maybe a repetition). After this revelation, did the frog instantly become the prince in all his qualities, or is he still the frog that you have been seeing since the beginning? Nothing has changed compared to before. This is not like the Uchihas growing a new sharingan after facing a new obstacle. Not that I agree with, but, at best you can say that he has learned the availability of a new sharingan.

-Since you are asking what I see when I look at the Naruto now with the knowledge of his heritage implanted in my head I am going to give the answer of "No, he is not the same frog I have come to know". I just cannot look at him in the same way as I did before. Oh sure he looks are the same, talks the same and even fights the same but it's just not the same character I used enjoy watching. It's like I can see the character and then immedietly I catch a giant neon sing above that says "Not who you are thinking of".

[riverclark08]

This is the best chapter yet. :sad:

And it also raises questions:

Is Naruto becoming the vessel for the Kyuubi just a random choice of Minato or was it totally planned? Did J-man tell Minato about the Great Sage's prophecy?

If Minato split the Kyuubi's chakra into yin and yang, and sealed one part inside Naruto, where did the other half go? Probably to Pain? UNLIKELY right?

Where's that book that Jiraya has written?

[Blaat]

That was sad :( It would be awesome though if Pain or whatever is going to use Jiraiya's body now. :p

[Fukitsu Naruto]

That was sad :( It would be awesome though if Pain or whatever is going to use Jiraiya's body now. :p

-Why would that be awesome? Jiraiya deserves a good death. Let the character rest in peace.

[riverclark08]

-Why would that be awesome? Jiraiya deserves a good death. Let the character rest in peace.

yea. let his memory serve as inspiration to naruto.

[tkdtiger]

This was a sad chapter. but atleast we get to see what's happening with Naruto and Sasuke's teams.

[That Other Ninja]

You know what they say... the great ones always die before their time. Elvis, Bruce Lee, Tupac.. Jiraiya. :D

[AnbuItachi]

yay jiraiya died. finally its getting more interesting

[Fran~]

You know what they say... the great ones always die before their time. Elvis, Bruce Lee, Tupac.. Jiraiya. :D

Kamina, Kittan... the whole Gurren Brigade!!! :(

[Jehuty]

What an amazing chapter.

The Gallant Jiraiya, eh? The way we see the flashbacks, the way that his heart is at peace towards the end, the fact he is leaving all his hopes and dreams to Naruto... Yeah, he's gone.

It really makes more sense out of his name, too. Naruto -- "to become". I hope that Jiraiya will be honored like Sandaime was. He was a well respected, legendary man. Man, this is so sad =\

Kushina was such a beautiful woman, too. Also, is Minato ever not smiling? Heh we see Minato smile as much as Naruto makes pissed-off faces.

Some people speculate that Kushina might be alive, right? I don't think so. Remember how in order to put Ichibi in Gaara, his mother had to be sacrified? I think that the same happened to Kushina. I would love to see a picture of her in color -- I wonder, what would life be like if Minato and Kushina were alive and Jiraiya had been the one to sacrifice his life? What kind of boy or man would Naruto have become?

Damnit, I can't believe Jiraiya, my favorite character in the entire damn series (far surpassing Naruto and Sasuke) had to die. >_< damnit

[MooMooFarm]

I just hate how the most obvious thing where Naruto = 4ths son came out to be true. And furthermore, that just makes the village of hidden crap leaf look even MORE stupid. You had the GREATEST SHINOBI in HISTORY and you'd make fun of his son just cause he has some angry thing in him? T_T It's like wow, can't even sympathize with villagers.

Jiraiya becoming Naruto's godfather is just...well ok sure but...kinda the same as 4ths son deal. It wasn't shocking like OMG NEVER THOUGHT THAT, it was more like ...oh..ok...makes sense....not really all that cool though....

And the way Jiraiya died, it did fit him. So it's not like I'm saying bad bad bad things about this series =X since the ending did fit him. He's a loser, he dies in a loser way, but he was the king of losers. That's how it is. A loser making some winner last stand before dying just kinda makes 3rds death look gimpy.

The whole Pain thing though is like...yeah. To me, any super super powerhouse that's just plain introduced off the bat (and don't use the OOOO GUY WITH EYES IN SHADOWS thing cause that's nothing) and doesn't even get references really sucks. That bone guy was an example, except he played a role that was only for one arc, so it fit him. You introduce the motherfer, he does some cool stuff, then you give backstory, then he dies. Ok no problem. But when all of a sudden he's just like RAWR IM AMAZING AND IM GONNA FIGHT MAIN GUY SOON it's like..........so I'm hoping this guy just dies off and isn't revealed to be something like the 4th or anything even remotely related to naruto. That would be kind of annoying. TOO MANY THINGS CONNECTED TO NARUTO. I thought HALF the point for like the first damn half of the series was HARD WORK + NOT SO SPECIAL GUY + LIL LUCK + ONE FANCY FOX TRICK = OOOOOOO NOT SO SUCKY. Now it's like...IT JUST SO HAPPENS THE WORLD REVOLVES AROUND YOU, YOU JUST DIDN'T KNOW IT FOR OVER 15 YEARS.

Tobi is a good example of well done heel though =X since his backstory is suspected as Madara, and that could be done into anything! Also the whole Obito thing only relates to Kakashi, which well, gives importance to supporting cast!

Anyways =X sorry for ranting. I'd really like to ask though if the anime has any fights worthy of the first half of the series. Like Gaara vs Rock Lee, or Chuunin Exam. T_T Shippuden really killed it for me when you saw Gai moving at slower then Genin speed in a couple of fights ( NO MATTER HOW LIL POWER U R USING, U DO NOT MOVE AT GIMP SPEED WHEN ITS A MISSION T_T ) and yeah, I feel the animation team really gave a let down. Also the music just turned to crap. Sure, having the same sound track kinda sucks, but you took away flute/traditional oriental music instruments for like a guitar? Are you joking me? What if we started listening to the Tunak Tunak indian song in like Eyeshield 21 all of a sudden? Instead of fitting trumpets, we will get some fat guy dancing around saying crazy crap as meteors fall in the background that spawn himself. Seriously, T_T someone tell me the anime got BETTER.

[ThoHell]

Just wow, wow. Seeing Naruto's parents together, something I've been yearning to see since the beginning of Naruto, is WOW....FINALLY! I'm happy I was right about Naruto being the destined child, but it still didn't calm my desire, that has been burning since last week, to know who/what Pain is. Maybe there was a hint in the chapter who he is, but I missed it.....WAS THERE???

[DrunkenRyder]

Man, konoha just took a huge blow, but its about time things got unbalanced since akatsuki was dropping left and right.

[BlackShinobi07]

YES SHE IS BAKKA thats how they know she is pregnant
Calling me "BAKKA" was uncalled for.

[Zek]

So I guess the reason the sage told Jiraiya to write a book was to inspire Naruto's personality(not that it actually ended up doing anything)... I wonder if Kakashi ever read that one.

[Sazelyt]

-What's not to get? Knowing that Naruto comes from a prestigious father downplays/minimizes the difficulties he has overcome despite the effort it took to actually achieve them. His fight with Haku, Kiba, Neji, Gaara, Sasuke and so on all seem like a moot point now that we know he was manufactured for greatness by being born to Yondaime Hokage as well as he actions his father took to do so.How can knowing that would downgrade what he had to bear? He is not like his father. He didn't live in the way that being a son to that father would require. He lived as an orphan, alone, struggling on his own, without showing any kind of talent, with no one to guide him to show his mistakes. Nothing of that incredible sort had happened in his life. And, even the sealing of Kyuubi didn't help in his life and his struggles either, on the opposite, that made his life even worse. Naruto overcame his bad fortune with his unique character that may have appeared by nurture not nature, in other words, it may have nothing to do with his father who seem to live a childhood like Itachi's and Sasuke's - in terms of success. Anyway, I don't remember Yondaime being there for Naruto when he needed help the most. Even being Yondaime's son didn't bring any help in his life either.

-How is he not a prince in disguise (or if you prefer "in the the making") when we, the audience, know that he's the son of the greatest shinobi Konohagakure ever poduced but the people in the Narutoverse do not? Hell, even the person in question doesn't know the details let alone the rest of the cast.What do you think of Asuma or the other children of Sandaime? Have you heard anything about those princes worthy of their father's fame? If he would be a prince in disguise, where were the caretakers who knew about that prince when that prince was literally eating shit in the streets?

-Since you are asking what I see when I look at the Naruto now with the knowledge of his heritage implanted in my head I am going to give the answer of "No, he is not the same frog I have come to know". I just cannot look at him in the same way as I did before. Oh sure he looks are the same, talks the same and even fights the same but it's just not the same character I used enjoy watching. It's like I can see the character and then immedietly I catch a giant neon sing above that says "Not who you are thinking of".Well, then, it seems, for you, a character does not mean anything on his own. Especially when that character is tied to someone else, he lost any meaning he carries and the meaning was automatically transferred from the parents. So, what you are saying is if Itachi and Sasuke were to come from Madara or someone else important, everything they have achieved by being the son of that father of no worth would become useless, as they carry no meaning on their own. Sorry, cannot disagree with more.

[Vanitas]

I wonder what Jiraiya is readying to do next...?

Perhaps a suicide attack that will take out all 6 peins leaving only the real "true" Nagato?

[DarkPaladin56]

Well, he already gave the info to pa-frog by burning him with the chakra.
I don't think Jiraiya has anything else up his sleeve.

[TooPurePureBoy]

There is a saying that goes, "The sins of the father do not beget the son." In other words just because your father was a bad person that does not mean you should be thought of in the same light just because you are his son. It is your actions that people should judge your value by.

In Naruto's case in regards to being related to Yondaime, replace the word sins with achievements and it sums it all up. Just because Minato was the bad-ass-mama-jama doesn't necessarily equate to Naruto automatically being destined for greatness.

In some cases having a famous dad would grant a child a better chance at more resources for his upbringing but in Naruto's case it was just the opposite it would seem.

[siya]

Well, he already gave the info to pa-frog by burning him with the chakra.
I don't think Jiraiya has anything else up his sleeve.

I agree, that's why he said that he made his decions and the rest is up to Naruto...that's kinda forshadowing that Jiriya is more and likely not getting out of there alive. Now, what I want to know is more information on Kushina..hasn't really said much, on top of that, we don't even know if she's dead or alive. We have been lead to believe that she is dead, but no direct proof has really been given so there is a possiblity she is alive.

And does anyone else besides me find it rather funny that Naruto got his name from a character in a book that got his name because Jiriya thought of it while eating Ramen which I would assume had naruto in it while he was eating it...?

Calling me "BAKKA" was uncalled for.

And yes it was...And it's "Baka"

[mist2123]

YES SHE IS BAKKA thats how they know she is pregnant

man i hate people who doesn't read rules before posting. Also cursing someone is embarrassing if you don't know how to spell XD.:heh:

[pinkusmalloy]

is it me or is it Naruto following the book Jiraiya wrote about himself. Think about it they both got the same name, they both love a girl who wont love them back, they both have a long list of failure and believe that they learn from their failures and finally they best friend betrayed them. i can now want to know what is in the book Jiraiya written and how it ends.

[siya]

is it me or is it Naruto following the book Jiraiya wrote about himself. Think about it they both got the same name, they both love a girl who wont love them back, they both have a long list of failure and believe that they learn from their failures and finally they best friend betrayed them. i can now want to know what is in the book Jiraiya written and how it ends.

er...It kinda explaind that in the manga...That is why Jiriya was told to write the book. If I read it correctly, Naruto's detiny lies with in the book.

[Fukitsu Naruto]

How can knowing that would downgrade what he had to bear? He is not like his father. He didn't live in the way that being a son to that father would require. He lived as an orphan, alone, struggling on his own, without showing any kind of talent, with no one to guide him to show his mistakes. Nothing of that incredible sort had happened in his life. And, even the sealing of Kyuubi didn't help in his life and his struggles either, on the opposite, that made his life even worse. Naruto overcame his bad fortune with his unique character that may have appeared by nurture not nature, in other words, it may have nothing to do with his father who seem to live a childhood like Itachi's and Sasuke's - in terms of success. Anyway, I don't remember Yondaime being there for Naruto when he needed help the most. Even being Yondaime's son didn't bring any help in his life either.

-Ok then what is it the one thing that he got from his father that has until this point served to strenghten him in ways no normal (the term is being used within the norm of the Narutoverse) shinobi could have been? You know the answer and that lies with that little beastie sealed in his soul. Think about it: no one other than those with similar predicaments have grown as Naruto had. But alas as great as that gift was it needed the negative aspect of it to balance it out. That which caused all of Naruto's suffering turned into his determination. All because of a single act orchastrated by his father and the forces that be. Naruto suffered and at the same time thrived, all due to him being Yondaime's son.

What do you think of Asuma or the other children of Sandaime? Have you heard anything about those princes worthy of their father's fame? If he would be a prince in disguise, where were the caretakers who knew about that prince when that prince was literally eating shit in the streets?

-Konohamaru? Well I know for a fact he had a Personal Instructor. How many of the other kids had that? Even Jiraiya training Naruto would probably never would have happened had he not realized Naruto's connection. The term "prince" is used metaphorically not literally. Besides we all know that the Hokages aren't served on hand and foot whilst sitting on a throne and wearing a jewel-crown on their heads.

Well, then, it seems, for you, a character does not mean anything on his own. Especially when that character is tied to someone else, he lost any meaning he carries and the meaning was automatically transferred from the parents. So, what you are saying is if Itachi and Sasuke were to come from Madara or someone else important, everything they have achieved by being the son of that father of no worth would become useless, as they carry no meaning on their own. Sorry, cannot disagree with more.

-Oh far from that. Naruto does mean something but ever since he's family tree (well branch technically but frankly who cares) it like everything he has done up until now has been orchastrated by his long dead dad. I am sorry but the fact that Naruto's tied to Yondaime via blood relation and the Kyuubi just makes him seem like a puppet (nevermind the fact that the story is dictated by the author).

[huynhlan]

You guy are trying to said that naruto life will be similar to the book j-man write about his own life, then doesn't that mean naruto will died at the end like j-man? It's true naruto life up to this point is quite similar to j-man's life but I think the ending of the book is a littel different than what is about to happen to j-man next chapter, because after all the 4th read the book and he wanted his son to be like the main character, so the mean that the main character of the book must have a good ending, otherwise who would name they son, and want him to be a character of so book who dead, and have a suck life until the end. Oh yeah alot of people I know, at the begin of naruto when they show the naruto and the 4th hokage, they already know they are father and son, and some of you say that when it was made a fact you guy change your view on naruto, come on you guy should already know the ralationship between the 4th and naruto from the begining right.

[hyperviper]

ok so what really happened in the last page of this chapter?

Did Jiraiya like inject the info about Pein's true identity inside the sage frog's mind?

The story is really getting melodramatic. Not necessarily in a bad sense. The character development is great but I just hate it when the manga is too focused on flashbacks from the past. Yea, I think the world in Naruto and the plots are better than Bleach's but it's hungry for more action. What the manga needs are more fights like Rock Lee vs. Gaara (Like what the guy mentioned above me)...some hot fights that don't waste too much time on stupid past that you'll find insignificant later on. It really needs more fights as hot as Bleach's fights. The previous fight with Pein was so boring. Too much Nagato/Yahiko-identity gibberish.

[siya]

You guy are trying to said that naruto life will be similar to the book j-man write about his own life, then doesn't that mean naruto will died at the end like j-man? It's true naruto life up to this point is quite similar to j-man's life but I think the ending of the book is a littel different than what is about to happen to j-man next chapter, because after all the 4th read the book and he wanted his son to be like the main character, so the mean that the main character of the book must have a good ending, otherwise who would name they son, and want him to be a character of so book who dead, and have a suck life until the end. Oh yeah alot of people I know, at the begin of naruto when they show the naruto and the 4th hokage, they already know they are father and son, and some of you say that when it was made a fact you guy change your view on naruto, come on you guy should already know the ralationship between the 4th and naruto from the begining right.


Jiriya was told to write the book on his travels, he could of made the ending any way he wants. Now we don't know the ending, but if you ask me, it's the whole "free will" thing. Perhaps Jiriya never finished the book, and Naruto must decide what he has to do on his own that will determin the fate of the world. So bassicaly, I'm guessing only Jiraiya knows the 2 choices and the one he must choose to make the world survive, it's just up to Naruto to choose one of those...


ok so what really happened in the last page of this chapter?

Did Jiraiya like inject the info about Pein's true identity inside the sage frog's mind?

The story is really getting melodramatic. Not necessarily in a bad sense. The character development is great but I just hate it when the manga is too focused on flashbacks from the past. Yea, I think the world in Naruto and the plots are better than Bleach's but it's hungry for more action. What the manga needs are more fights like Rock Lee vs. Gaara (Like what the guy mentioned above me)...some hot fights that don't waste too much time on stupid past that you'll find insignificant later on. It really needs more fights as hot as Bleach's fights. The previous fight with Pein was so boring. Too much Nagato/Yahiko-identity gibberish.

Yes, Jiraiya used his chakra to send the information over to the toad

[mayhem]

A lot of people like the underdog hero. They are much easier to root for. The guy that came from nothing who overcame all the odds. Naruto started out that way, but has now moved into sort of a young prince fulfilling his destiny story. Someone who was destined for greatness since birth. So I don't blame anyone for viewing Naruto and his accomplishments differently now.


NaruSaku definitely got a huge boost in this chapter, IMO. Not only the resemblance between Minato/Kushnia and Naruto/Sakura, but also with Jiraiya. It seems Naruto will succeed where Jiraiya failed.

Jiraiya could not get the girl he loved(Tsunade) Could not save his friend(Orochimaru). Could not protect his students or teacher(Nagato, Konan, Minato, etc)

Naruto will likely make up for Jiraiya's failures. And to do that he will have to win over Sakura and have the relationship with her that Jiraiya always wanted with Tsunade. I like NaruHina a lot, but right now, Hinata seems out in the cold. If Kishimoto is doing NaruHina, then he is certainly not leaving any hints for it. Everything points to Naruto with Sakura.

even now he's no prince, look at his situation besides jiraya his family bonds didn't help him achieve a single thing he has done, he did it alone, without the name and titles.

[ragnos007]

I wonder if Pa (head sage) will will able to disappear before pain gets to him. And i wonder how Kushina died (if she died - assume she did)

Also by the looks of things - Minato sealed Kyuubi into Naruto after he was born too

[Sazelyt]

-Ok then what is it the one thing that he got from his father that has until this point served to strenghten him in ways no normal (the term is being used within the norm of the Narutoverse) shinobi could have been? You know the answer and that lies with that little beastie sealed in his soul. Think about it: no one other than those with similar predicaments have grown as Naruto had. But alas as great as that gift was it needed the negative aspect of it to balance it out. That which caused all of Naruto's suffering turned into his determination. All because of a single act orchastrated by his father and the forces that be. Naruto suffered and at the same time thrived, all due to him being Yondaime's son.Again, this was all known since the beginning. Yondaime is the one who sealed Kyuubi within Naruto. We have always known that. Yondaime being his father does not change what we have known since the beginning. Actually, on the opposite, by sealing a creature like that within his own son, despite knowing the future that waits a jinchuuriki, Yondaime left his son with a really difficult task and a really painful future. And, again, that would only make us sympathize with Naruto even more, instead of making him automatically a person who was put on a throne at birth.

-Konohamaru? Well I know for a fact he had a Personal Instructor. How many of the other kids had that? Even Jiraiya training Naruto would probably never would have happened had he not realized Naruto's connection. The term "prince" is used metaphorically not literally. Besides we all know that the Hokages aren't served on hand and foot whilst sitting on a throne and wearing a jewel-crown on their heads.I also wonder how many of the other kids had that? Did Asuma have that instructor, and reach that easy-death level with such an instructor? Did Tsunade's unknown family members also have that kind of instructor to reach that unknown level? Even Konohamaru did not show anything that would put him in a position like Sasuke or Itachi. So much for the result of the help he had received.

Regarding Jiraiya training Naruto, I don't see it any different than Tsunade training Sakura or Orochimaru training Sasuke. Have you seen any connection in those two regarding blood ties? I honestly haven't. All had aspects that are highly similar to their instructors, and fate brought them together. That means, even without knowing that connection or without having that connection, Naruto's own personality and the fact that he had Kyuubi sealed inside him (regardless of the sealer being his father or someone unrelated), would have let that training happen. After all, even if Naruto would not have been Yondaime's son, Yondaime was still Jiraiya's student.

I am sorry but the fact that Naruto's tied to Yondaime via blood relation and the Kyuubi just makes him seem like a puppetA puppet that you have no control over would have made a great puppet, indeed...

[Naruto_spartan]

A puppet that you have no control over would have made a great puppet, indeed...
Isn't that the essence of life itself. Minato didn't have a clue how Naruto would live his life. He died like a hero but sadly a broken man, as well. What he wanted was for Naruto to be treated like a hero for his unkown and unwilling sacrificce, we will never know how Naruto would have turned out. However, if you think about it, he was the man who had trust and believed in Naruto. One benefit is that he gave his son the power to control the fate of the world, since he couldn't give his son the love a child deservers, or the childhood that he(Minato) had, presumming it was a happy one.

I was thinking, if Kushina died on the night Naruto died. Then that could have been a determinating factor that pushed Minato to do what he did. This is pressuming Kushina is dead, although I really wish she isn't.

[Vanitas]

Isn't that the essence of life itself. Minato didn't have a clue how Naruto would live his life. He died like a hero but sadly a broken man, as well. What he wanted was for Naruto to be treated like a hero for his unkown and unwilling sacrificce, we will never know how Naruto would have turned out. However, if you think about it, he was the man who had trust and believed in Naruto. One benefit is that he gave his son the power to control the fate of the world, since he couldn't give his son the love a child deservers, or the childhood that he(Minato) had, presumming it was a happy one.

I was thinking, if Kushina died on the night Naruto died. Then that could have been a determinating factor that pushed Minato to do what he did. This is pressuming Kushina is dead, although I really wish she isn't.

Where would she be if she was in fact alive? It seems pretty unlikely though.

[Mizuno]

Was Pain chasing Pa at the end there? Which makes you wonder why's he so concerned about his 'identity' being revealed? Could knowing his true identity itself reveal his weakness?

[tramadrama]

-What's not to get? Knowing that Naruto comes from a prestigious father downplays/minimizes the difficulties he has overcome despite the effort it took to actually achieve them. His fight with Haku, Kiba, Neji, Gaara, Sasuke and so on all seem like a moot point now that we know he was manufactured for greatness by being born to Yondaime Hokage as well as he actions his father took to do so.

Manufactured because he's the 4th's son? That's a new one. I wonder how many fathers in the world would hope for the same thing? Some uber-religious CEO exec hopes his son is manufactured...only not realizing that his son is dating the quarterback of the high school football team and doing God knows what else.

Any remote level of manufacturing was left for naught because honestly, the glimpse of baby Naruto they showed this chapter and (going by art work on this one) Kushina being more than 5 or 6 months pregnant is a huge foreshadow of the 4th's end of days. Which brings me to question...

The question after reading this chapter is: Were we wrong as a crowd to assume that the Konoha does NOT know who Naruto's father is? Was Naruto hated THIS much because of the actions the father took to curse Naruto for life and they think he took their savior away? I gotta tell ya, with a flashback like the one we saw with both Yondi and Kushina in the same room with nothing but smiley happy faces, I would think it was common knowledge about their relationship. Also, was Minato the 4TH during this flashback? Because that also means that Kushina was hanging around even then. You can't just wander into the hokage's home without anyone knowing about it...can you?

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Was Pain chasing Pa at the end there? Which makes you wonder why's he so concerned about his 'identity' being revealed? Could knowing his true identity itself reveal his weakness?

If you can escape someone who claims to be a god...then you arent god.
It's as simple that.

[siya]

Where would she be if she was in fact alive? It seems pretty unlikely though.

Well, She was from another villiage you know. She could of perhaps gone back to her villiage. Now, most of the signs tell us that she is dead, but there is still a possiblity that she is alive...I guess we shall see

[Vanitas]

Well, She was from another villiage you know. She could of perhaps gone back to her villiage. Now, most of the signs tell us that she is dead, but there is still a possiblity that she is alive...I guess we shall see

Sounds pretty screwed up for a mom to just go back to her own village fully knowing there's a baby of hers out there. I'm open to suggestions on this one, frankly I don't see her coming around outside of flashbacks like the one.

[siya]

Sounds pretty screwed up for a mom to just go back to her own village fully knowing there's a baby of hers out there. I'm open to suggestions on this one, frankly I don't see her coming around outside of flashbacks like the one.

Well, I'm just saying...Perhaps she thought Naruto to be dead or somthing...It's a possibility.

[Sabaku Kyu]

The question after reading this chapter is: Were we wrong as a crowd to assume that the Konoha does NOT know who Naruto's father is? Was Naruto hated THIS much because of the actions the father took to curse Naruto for life and they think he took their savior away? I gotta tell ya, with a flashback like the one we saw with both Yondi and Kushina in the same room with nothing but smiley happy faces, I would think it was common knowledge about their relationship. Also, was Minato the 4TH during this flashback? Because that also means that Kushina was hanging around even then. You can't just wander into the hokage's home without anyone knowing about it...can you?

Even given the fact that their relationship was public and everyone knew that Kushina was pregnant, Konoha as a whole still may have not realized that Naruto was the 4th's son. Afterall, Kushina and Minato both died before the birth of their son could be announced (I assuming Kushina did in fact die). Probably very few realized that Kushina actually gave birth before she died and that the infant was used to seal the Kyuubi. Most probably assumed that she died before she was able to give birth.

Those who did know the truth ( Sandaime, Jiraiya, Tsunade, maybe Kakashi) kept quiet about it. Sandaime didn't want Naruto knowing about the Kyuubi at all, since he believed the power to be dangerous. Naruto realizing that he was the 4th's son would eventually bring up questions about the Kyuubi. So Sandaime apparently decided to not tell Naruto about it and even game him his mother's surname, Uzamaki, because Minato's surname, Namikaze, would easily be recognized and give away the connection.

Konohamaru? Well I know for a fact he had a Personal Instructor. How many of the other kids had that? Even Jiraiya training Naruto would probably never would have happened had he not realized Naruto's connection. The term "prince" is used metaphorically not literally. Besides we all know that the Hokages aren't served on hand and foot whilst sitting on a throne and wearing a jewel-crown on their heads.

Actually, Konohamaru's situation sums up perfectly the message Kishi wants you take from the story. Like you mentioned, Konohamaru gets all the special attention and acknowledgment that Naruto never got. His situation is essentially the opposite of Naruto's. However, he learns from Naruto that no one is entitled to the position of Hokage, no matter what their background/destiny is. It is a position that can only be earned. The background is irrelevant. It is the outlook on life that make someone truly worthy

The philosophy behind Naruto was never so much the idea that "a loser can become great". The main idea is that those who never give up can overcome the odds. Naruto wasn't made to be a loser to show that a loser can make it per se, but to make it clear that his resolve was pure, not influenced by what others thought of him or knowledge of his lineage, like Konohamaru was.

Now we are finding out that Naruto does in fact come from a very important background. But that doesn't change the basic message of the story or what makes Naruto's character who he is.

[Salsa]

Sounds pretty screwed up for a mom to just go back to her own village fully knowing there's a baby of hers out there. I'm open to suggestions on this one, frankly I don't see her coming around outside of flashbacks like the one.

I would think she wouldn't have a choice, Naruto did have the nine tails sealed inside him after all, it's not like they would let someone from outside of the village have one of the most powerful forces on the planet to do with as they please. The village probably didn't allow her to see Naruto after he had the nine tails sealed inside of him.

[ReCCaThEDraGoN]

Personally, I think that someone will save Jiraiya. In the tale of the gallant jiraiya he is saved how another pupil then the story ends abruptly with no conclusion...

Perhaps the pupil uses either birds or spiders... since the principal types of magic practiced by thaumaturges in old Japan were toad, serpent, bird, spider, and snail magic.

I don't think Kishi will give us solid evidence that Jiraiya dies; as the case with Orochi (this is a matter of opinion)...

[siya]

Personally, I think that someone will save Jiraiya. In the tale of the gallant jiraiya he is saved how another pupil then the story ends abruptly with no conclusion...

Perhaps the pupil uses either birds or spiders... since the principal types of magic practiced by thaumaturges in old Japan were toad, serpent, bird, spider, and snail magic.

I don't think Kishi will give us solid evidence that Jiraiya dies; as the case with Orochi (this is a matter of opinion)...

Well, The real question is who could posssible save him? Naruto and them are no where near him, he's in enemy territory, That would be one heck of a miricle...as for the whole Orochimaru thing, I don't think he's acually dead. Kabuto did say he was trying to fight for his concies self did he not? That's an indication that Orochimaru is trying to gain control of him

[ReCCaThEDraGoN]

Well, The real question is who could posssible save him? Naruto and them are no where near him, he's in enemy territory, That would be one heck of a miricle...as for the whole Orochimaru thing, I don't think he's acually dead. Kabuto did say he was trying to fight for his concies self did he not? That's an indication that Orochimaru is trying to gain control of him

Honestly, no clue who could save him now, but i do think if Orochi somehow manages to come back his only fitting opponent is Jiraiya.

I'll admit though my little theory is based largely on the "hope" the Kishi follows the tale of the gallant jiraiya, as he has done with other japanese myths/tales/folklore.

[The Small One]

I don't think, that he is going to survive...
I just don't see much use for him anymore. He didn't properly train Naruto when he had the time to do so. Now he sent him this key to unlock more of the Kyuubi's power and he got the real identity of Pain, dieing in the process. What could he accomplish, if he would survive?

[siya]

I don't think, that he is going to survive...
I just don't see much use for him anymore. He didn't properly train Naruto when he had the time to do so. Now he sent him this key to unlock more of the Kyuubi's power and he got the real identity of Pain, dieing in the process. What could he accomplish, if he would survive?

Jiraiya traind Naruto for 2 years...0__o..How did he not accomplish anything...And there could be lots of use from him if he survives

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Jiraiya... Just like Asuma...i'll bet...Tsunade will become pregnant all of sudden. And Jiraiya is the big daddy...

It seems common that fathers die...and mothers (sometimes) survive (atleast till the baby gets born).

[siya]

Jiraiya... Just like Asuma...i'll bet...Tsunade will become pregnant all of sudden. And Jiraiya is the big daddy...

It seems common that fathers die...and mothers (sometimes) survive (atleast till the baby gets born).

lawl, are you implying thay Kurenai is going to die after her baby is born? (Did it even say weather she was accually pregnate... I don't recall it ever saying that...)

[BlackShinobi07]

Jiraiya traind Naruto for 2 years...0__o..How did he not accomplish anything...And there could be lots of use from him if he survives
Naruto actually wanted to learn other techniques but Jiriaya just insited he work on the rasengan.

[smatdesa]

how the hell anybody will take on pein now...that was a great fight but he is still there...i hope it wont be a 30 vs pein...

Probably by having Naruto upgrade his Shadow Clone technique.

[smatdesa]

Jiraiya traind Naruto for 2 years...0__o..How did he not accomplish anything...And there could be lots of use from him if he survives

Naruto actually wanted to learn other techniques but Jiriaya just insited he work on the rasengan.

To ensure that in 2 years, he would accomplish almost nothing, compared to Sasuke who learned from the Snake.

Because Kishi is a Sasuke fanboy.

Naruto will *always* be weaker compared to Sasuke.

In fact, in chapter 527, just when Naruto is about to deal Sasuke a deathblow, he will stop / pull back and try to convince Sasuke to return from the darkside.

Lol

[0200461b]

I'm just really glad Jiraiya didn't awake with the Rinnegan. At least for this chapter :)

[King Lycan]

Yea but i know he was gonna die :sad:

[The Chaos]

Personally, I think that someone will save Jiraiya. In the tale of the gallant jiraiya he is saved how another pupil then the story ends abruptly with no conclusion...

Perhaps the pupil uses either birds or spiders... since the principal types of magic practiced by thaumaturges in old Japan were toad, serpent, bird, spider, and snail magic.

I don't think Kishi will give us solid evidence that Jiraiya dies; as the case with Orochi (this is a matter of opinion)...

There No one Can Save Him But Tsunade .....I Have This feeling That she will come and save Him...
Well Every one Is busy With Their Fight..

[Zek]

I don't see Jiraiya surviving after this chapter. With all the incredibly heavy-handed foreshadowing up until now and an entire chapter devoted to Jiraiya's dying thoughts, there's no way Kishimoto is just going to take it all back now.

[Mists]

I don't see Jiraiya surviving after this chapter. With all the incredibly heavy-handed foreshadowing up until now and an entire chapter devoted to Jiraiya's dying thoughts, there's no way Kishimoto is just going to take it all back now.

He did do it once...the save Sasuke arc in pt 1. Tsunade did mention she would head out to find him...

But the truth is, she doesn't know exactly where he is...it would be silly for the hokage to go into hostile territory and possibly die.

Jiaraya I think is definitely dead, it was pretty gruesome too. I like the current dark tone of the series though which was challenged a bit in Naruto vs kazuzu. Messing up against Akatsuki and acting like it was all a joke was pretty weird

[Ryuujin]

goddamn tsundere bitches always win, it seems...

[Slayerx]

Well, and so ends the tale of the gallant Jiriaya... though i'm willing to bet that Jiriaya's body will b used to become one of the six ways of Pain in order to replace the one he sent back to kohona.

and y'know, Kushina is different then what i thought... She looked very motherly... i would have thought that she would be more like a short haired tomboyish type. Afterall, Naruto's fighting style and his personality are supposed to be similar to his mothers...

[TooPurePureBoy]

and y'know, Kushina is different then what i thought... She looked very motherly... i would have thought that she would be more like a short haired tomboyish type. Afterall, Naruto's fighting style and his personality are supposed to be similar to his mothers...

This is very true. I've been thinking that myself. Her character design is way off from what I had imagined. We were told that Naruto and her were very similar. Not that we can tell much from a couple of pictures in a relaxed "at home hosting an honored guest" type setting, but she did seem rather composed, calm, and well motherly. Guess pregnancy settled her down some judging by those few snapshots of her.

[tramadrama]

He did do it once...the save Sasuke arc in pt 1. Tsunade did mention she would head out to find him...

But the truth is, she doesn't know exactly where he is...it would be silly for the hokage to go into hostile territory and possibly die.

Jiaraya I think is definitely dead, it was pretty gruesome too. I like the current dark tone of the series though which was challenged a bit in Naruto vs kazuzu. Messing up against Akatsuki and acting like it was all a joke was pretty weird
I assume you are talking about Chouji and Neji. Well, IMO Chouji was a big surprise. The whole Shik and the butterfly thing had me 100% convinced that Chouji bit the big one; only to come back eating potato chips 2-3 dozen chapters later. I remember the bad taste in my mouth after Chouji survived that. Would it really have hurt the story if he did die? I don't think so, personally. Hell, Asuma didn't get a reflection at all; just a stab...I don't think he even got a cigarette.

[Fran~]

This is very true. I've been thinking that myself. Her character design is way off from what I had imagined. We were told that Naruto and her were very similar. Not that we can tell much from a couple of pictures in a relaxed "at home hosting an honored guest" type setting, but she did seem rather composed, calm, and well motherly. Guess pregnancy settled her down some judging by those few snapshots of her.

Tsunade & J-man (RIP) said that Kushina was a tomboy when she was a girl, then she growed up like a beautiful woman. J-man(RIP)'s flashbacks showed a mature Kushina (past 20's maybe).

To me, Kushina's design is how i imagined an adult Sakura... freaks me out a little :uhoh:

[DeDe]

Tsunade & J-man (RIP) said that Kushina was a tomboy when she was a girl, then she growed up like a beautiful woman. J-man(RIP)'s flashbacks showed a mature Kushina (past 20's maybe).

To me, Kushina's design is how i imagined an adult Sakura... freaks me out a little :uhoh:

It's interesting that there is some debate(not here) about whether Kushina resembles an adult Sakura or Hinata(because of the long hair, appearance). She actually looks a lot like the girl from the Uchiha weapon shop from Chapter 354. I wonder if Kishimoto liked that design?

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7841/09dj2.png

[Ban kai]

jiriya is gonna die NOOOO

[Monkey D. Luffy]

I don't know but from the look of it, this is the closest so far that we've seen Jiraiya in this fight accepting that he was done. Actually reminiscing and talking down to himself, so death seems probable but maybe something happens.

[bbduece]

Seems like a lot of people is considering the fourth a possiblity to be the true identity of Pain
Since after the fourth sealed the Kyuubi inside Naruto he had to make a pack with the shinigami to do it so the fourth should be dead
Maybe Tobi some how perform a secret juutsu and revive the fourth who became pain, this could be a reason why Pain is following Tob'is orders

-just an idea-

Jiraiya is my favorite character, i am not happy about this :(

[siya]

Seems like a lot of people is considering the fourth a possiblity to be the true identity of Pain
Since after the fourth sealed the Kyuubi inside Naruto he had to make a pack with the shinigami to do it so the fourth should be dead
Maybe Tobi some how perform a secret juutsu and revive the fourth who became pain, this could be a reason why Pain is following Tob'is orders

-just an idea-

Jiraiya is my favorite character, i am not happy about this :(


In a technicall sense, Minato is not dead. When you use that jutsu for the Shinigami, You spend eternitiy in his stomach fighting off all the other souls he has consumed

[Fran~]

It's interesting that there is some debate(not here) about whether Kushina resembles an adult Sakura or Hinata(because of the long hair, appearance). She actually looks a lot like the girl from the Uchiha weapon shop from Chapter 354. I wonder if Kishimoto liked that design?

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7841/09dj2.png

But Hinata has the byakugan's eyes, its totally different to me... and Sakura had that long hair because of that rumor about Sasuke likes girls with long hair.

i checked the Kishimoto's characters review and found this:

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000025/Naruto25-00.jpg


And i found this images of Sakura without the headband... the rest of the analysis is up to you, but look at those eyes ^^:

http://xs222.xs.to/xs222/07500/KS.JPG

[shaselai]

I guess following trends Minato+tomboy Kushina = naruto + tomboy sakura... I think a lot of the story is about past gen regrets and current gen not repeating same mistake - letting oro go vs trying to get sasuke back, and perhaps jiraiya being dumped vs naruto with sakura.

[chitgoks]

it's common for characters to have the same faces.. they just dont have any more creativity left. they just change other attributes like hair, etc to make them diff..

naruto has lots of common faces

[Fran~]

I guess following trends Minato+tomboy Kushina = naruto + tomboy sakura... I think a lot of the story is about past gen regrets and current gen not repeating same mistake - letting oro go vs trying to get sasuke back, and perhaps jiraiya being dumped vs naruto with sakura.

Yeah... Naruto its like Minato+Jiraiya, Sakura like Kushina+Tsunade... ^////^ i want some lovely action between those 2 love birds... dont forget what Yamato said to Sakura... <3

naruto has lots of common faces
Yeah, Minato for instance :D

[huynhlan]

I think j-man won't die cause kabuto probably show up and save him. Oh yeah I think naruto mom is still alive and she will probavly show up later and be like " Naruto I'm your mother". cause I think she is the best person to tell naruto about his 4th and dhe end up together, and i hope I get to see the 4th fight against someone strong to show he's the best.

[siya]

I think j-man won't die cause kabuto probably show up and save him. Oh yeah I think naruto mom is still alive and she will probavly show up later and be like " Naruto I'm your mother". cause I think she is the best person to tell naruto about his 4th and dhe end up together, and i hope I get to see the 4th fight against someone strong to show he's the best.


Why would Kabuto come save Jiraiya?

OO can she show up in a Darth Vader Costume! And be like..."Luke..I am your...O wait...sorry, just got back from a Star Wars adution..Naruto..I...am..your...mother...."

Naruto- "Can you please take that ridiculos outfit off...?

xD

[Naruto_spartan]

You know Naruto being the revolutionary that can bring a new era of peace or destruction to the world, meaqns that Naruto will gain incredibly skilled and powerful, by the end. I mean yeah, the Kyuubi is itself a superpower, but people can already seal the beasts, which means that they can still be beaten. This means that Naruto might/will gain more power then anyone. Because the fact that he is destined to change the world kind of brings him to a new more devine role, like a god. It's ironic, Pein thinks of himself as a god, could even be one, yet Naruto might unkowningly(unwantedly) become a god. It just becomes more interesting the more you think about it....

[Fukitsu Naruto]

-Here's an interesting point: what in the name of manga is Konan doing? What did she get some sort of massive paper cut that needed immediete treatment or something? I don't recall hearing Pein tell her to stay out of his way at all.

[Nintendo]

-Here's an interesting point: what in the name of manga is Konan doing? What did she get some sort of massive paper cut that needed immediete treatment or something? I don't recall hearing Pein tell her to stay out of his way at all.

pain told her to "stay back" so she is prob hanging out doing some paper work for their A-Bomb.

[AnbuItachi]

i thought pain told her to stand back

[Deathwing]

i hope naruto's mother is dead cause if she is not then she is a horrible parent

some of the plot is starting to get to me though naruto being the 4ths kid and still hated by everyone in the village just seems stupid and unrealistic
Villagers: hey theres the son of the guy who saved us all a horrific death by sacrificing himself lets treat him like a social pariah

and on another note J-man is going to die there is no way there would be chapters upon chapters of foreshadowing stressing the point if he was going to live

[siya]

i hope naruto's mother is dead cause if she is not then she is a horrible parent

some of the plot is starting to get to me though naruto being the 4ths kid and still hated by everyone in the village just seems stupid and unrealistic
Villagers: hey theres the son of the guy who saved us all a horrific death by sacrificing himself lets treat him like a social pariah

and on another note J-man is going to die there is no way there would be chapters upon chapters of foreshadowing stressing the point if he was going to live

Well, if she is alive, I assure you Kishi will put a good reason as to why she left Naruto as an orphan

[Bari_Phillis]

like hell she's alive!
The best alibi she would have would be
"oh naruto... I just couldn't let my pookums live his life knowing his mom was in fact a... a... a hooker!" *naruto's mother than bursts into tears as naruto backs slowly away*
i mean common sense people.

on another note, I AM SO GLAD THAT JIRAIYA DID NOT BECOME PART OF PEINS COLLECTION! that would not be like kishi's style and would moreover piss me off. anyone giving guesses to when kishi will reveal peins n-ext identity?

onto saskue and itachi. wtf is their deal? why can't itachi just kick the bucket and go die? i believe he will soon enough. I mean, his purpose in the manga will soon be at an end much like jiraiyas is.

[kodok_balls]

I can't believe that people had more interest in talking bout kushina and her appearance. well... what's the big deal if kushina had a ressemblence with sakura or even her mother. the only thing matter now is jiraiya's fate. he was talking actually he will not give up. so he got something left. after all the frog pa is gona do something... that part is more interesting than kushina's thing. who cares if she's a bad mother or even a bitch..... sorry, just my oppinion.

[Hiking_Bear]

Jiraiya was probably delusional at the end from so much blood loss. Pa toad is going to return to Konoha telling everyone that he has the true identity of Pain inscribed into his skin, when it turns out to be just a tribal lower back tattoo. And I don't know why Jiraiya thought he was a failure. If he's a failure, then what does that make Tsunade? Come on, cowering in fear during the Sannin fight? Walking around with a pig dressed in clothes? What exactly will her legacy be? I hope her slug eats her.

[huynhlan]

Come on I saying that it would be interesting if Naruto mom would be alive, come on don't you want ot see what naruto will react to seeing his, like comeone how would you reacted if for almost 16 years you though you don't have a parent and that you are hated by people around you, and you live a of a loser all your live than suddenly a lady should up and say she is your mom, what will you do?

[Fukitsu Naruto]

like hell she's alive!
The best alibi she would have would be
"oh naruto... I just couldn't let my pookums live his life knowing his mom was in fact a... a... a hooker!" *naruto's mother than bursts into tears as naruto backs slowly away*
i mean common sense people.

-But this is a work of fiction and as such Uzumaki Kushina could have a legitimate reason for not being there for Naruto if she's alive. Things like memory loss due to a tragic event, kidnapping and placed into a cryo-stasis chamber, subjected to brainwashing, or the Konoha village dickheads could have made it a rule that in exchange for not "physically" harming the boy Kushina was never allowed to nurture him (a punishment most mothers would gladly pay for the safety of their children). Use your imagination guy not common sense when dealing with fiction...