View Full Version : [Manga] How will Jiraiya and his students's fates shape the events to come?
Legendary ninja, gentleman, illustrous writter and open pervert, Jiraiya of the Sannin has finally met his end.
His life and choices shaped the universe as we know it and the deeds of his students will soon save or destroy the world.
What changes will his death bring? How will his final choice effect the prophecy? Which one of his students will be the destiny child fated to bring peace or destruction to the world?
Which one of his students will be the destiny child fated to bring peace or destruction to the world?
:heh: You're kidding here, right?
In Jiraiya's honor, I was expecting a wolf-of-mibu style thread start, but, I guess, I got my hopes too high...Still, this may be more effective than what I had in mind. Anyways...
:heh: You're kidding here, right?Who knows, what you have is still a guess after all...Kishi may want to finish the story with a bang, just like his dear Deidara, which means Pein may end up being the lucky one. You can also imagine a scenario where both do what is meant to be done as the child of prophecy (meaning, first some destruction by the first child of prophecy then a stop by the opposing child of prophecy).
:heh: You're kidding here, right?
Idk Hunter doesn't strike me as the type with a sence of humor =p. J/k
Though the answear is obvious. I still think it would be cool if Pain pulled a 180 simular to Gaara (or Sai / Neji) somewhere near the end of the fight. Then both could become the destined children creating a better world.
It would be such a shame to see the greatest of the 3 eye techniques get lost over a foolish ideal, that Pain has.
Though more importantly I want to know, why Jaraiya revealing Pain's real identity is going to be such a difference maker in the fight? I mean what difference could it really make if Pain was Nagato or someone else? I'm sure I'll find out soon, but right now I'm just not seeing the logic here.
Naruto_spartan
2007-12-18, 05:58
Pein, in his early years was a good kid, I doubt that someone can become as evil as that. Maybe he is under the influence/controled of/by something/someone else, you know waiting for Naruto to come and save him from this darkness.
destined child could also be both naruto and pein as parts of ying and yang , one would bring peace and one would bring chaos and destruction to the ninja world and it will be determined by their own fight...
tkdtiger
2007-12-18, 10:50
destined child could also be both naruto and pein as parts of ying and yang , one would bring peace and one would bring chaos and destruction to the ninja world and it will be determined by their own fight...
haha I was thinking the same thing...
Fukitsu Naruto
2007-12-18, 10:53
destined child could also be both naruto and pein as parts of ying and yang , one would bring peace and one would bring chaos and destruction to the ninja world and it will be determined by their own fight...
-Or they could be the yin and yang that are needed to defeat an even more sinister disaster. Light and darkness need one another as neither can exist without the other.
Naruto is the detined child isn't he? I though that is what Jiraiya said...Now...what I'm confused on...Is it Jiriya's choice teh decideds the fate or teh world or the detined child's choice?
it seems astho
one of these supposed
'destined childs' has inner evil and one inner good possibly
even tho this might not be relevant just syaing
that once the original rinnegan user nagato was good and that the beast inside naruto is very evil?
Ero-Senn1n
2007-12-18, 13:11
I wonder what was that last move of Jiraiya that was supposed to be so important, i mean when he raises from death for a second to make a one finger seal on the back of the toad. It's supposed to be a move which he made to seal his choice of who is the destined child. Was it the key of the full-kyuubi? Was it the knowledge on Pein's identity for which Jiraiya had went back to fight Pein and die? He sacrificed his life to go back to the 5 remaining Peins and discover Pein's identity, so i think it's not the kyuubi-key that he did but the seal has information on Pein's identy or ability.
The destined child's ability to bring either destruction or peace to the world in case of Naruto seems simple: he either becomes the kyuubi by losing his control or he tames the kyuubi's power and becomes stronger than anyone else living by the ideals of the "will of fire".
ChojinLocke
2007-12-18, 13:45
I think it was clear from the last chapter that the 'choice' jiraya made (to never give up) is also the choice that the character of his book (as per prophecy) made to never give up. By proxy the child of prophecy is Naruto and Jiraya chose him as such by naming him and therefore setting in motion a chain of events that would follow. He just realised all that in the very end when he linked the concept of never giving up > to the book he wrote > to the character therein > to Naruto the child of prophecy.
There are many things that are affected by Jiraiya's death. And, interestingly, most if not all of those will be related to Naruto. The child of prophecy is one of those.
I am more interested in the summon related issues that will be forwarded to Naruto. The first was the key left by Yondaime to Jiraiya as the temporary hiding place. That means, a small arc dealing with the training to unlock the key is to be expected. Another thing is what will happen to Jiraiya's summoning jutsu and the requirements that come with it. If Naruto is the only remaining alive human member of the toad summon familya, I expect Naruto to face the toad lords or elders, just like Jiraiya. If that ever happens, maybe we can learn a few other important issues directly from these elders. Information that cannot be obtained through normal means, even information on Kyuubi (Naruto was not forced to discuss that with Kyuubi, to learn about what happened before with him and Uchihas, even after the last Uchiha-Kyuubi confrontation). And, of course, I also wish a special summoning like what happened in hermit mode with Jiraiya but this time used by Naruto. It is not easy to make a comparison, but, I feel that may be as powerful as the cursed seal modes. (now that I think about it, maybe a bodily summon that can suck up Kyuubi's chakra at high rates without giving disturbance to the main host, Naruto, and making him go berserk, may become a great technique for Naruto)
Ero-Senn1n
2007-12-18, 17:59
One thing should be done finally before all this matter becomes too ridiculous: somebody should tell Naruto about his parents already! Isn't this looking stupid that Jiraiya never talked to Naruto about his past. Jiraiya begins by saying that Naruto is like the 4th, but unlike the 4th he is stupid, but never again did he tell anything to Naruto about the truth. So this is either extremely stupid storytelling from Kishimoto or there is a very important reason behind this. I can only have some vague guesses, for example Jiraiya was thinking that Kushina betrayed the village and left them and Yondaime, or Kushina was the descendant of some unknown noble family so that she was forced to leave after Naruto was born, either way Jiraiya and Tsunade didn't tell about Yondaime being the fater because than Naruto would ask who the mother is and they don't want him to know about Kushina. But this sound still odd, it's really difficult to think of a beliveable reason. If the reason is some dark past than it would be an interesting plot twist if Naruto learning about that begins to question his faith in Konoha and being a hokage and starts thinking if this were his path. That way he would become a more complex personality, and of course his choice between saving everyone or doing something else would not be so clear anymore.
Sabaku Kyu
2007-12-18, 18:59
I'm really interested on how they approach unlocking Naruto's seal. Jiraiya said that Naruto went 4-tail after cracking the seal just a bit. If they were try to open it anymore than that, who knows what would happen. Nothing really seems to have changed since then in regards to how well Naruto controls the Kyuubi. Yamato can suppress the power but only up to a certain point.
Also I thought Jiraiya's outlook on his life was kind of puzzling. He felt bad because he couldn't match the accomplishments of the Hokage, yet, when he was offered the position of Hokage, he turned it down. I guess Naruto will accomplish everything Jiraiya didn't in his life: he'll stop Sasuke, save the world, become Hokage and hook up with Sakura. He'll never be as great when it comes to pervertedness though.
One thing should be done finally before all this matter becomes too ridiculous: somebody should tell Naruto about his parents already! Isn't this looking stupid that Jiraiya never talked to Naruto about his past. Jiraiya begins by saying that Naruto is like the 4th, but unlike the 4th he is stupid, but never again did he tell anything to Naruto about the truth. So this is either extremely stupid storytelling from Kishimoto or there is a very important reason behind this.
I don't think there's anything dark or shameful about Kushina because Tsunade's and Jiraiya's memories of her were obviously fond ones. And Tsunade said Naruto's personality was just like his mother's. She wouldn't have made that comparison if Kushina was someone traitorous.
Really, I think the reason that Jiraiya (like Sandaime, Tsunade, Kakashi and maybe others who knew about it) didn't tell Naruto about his father or mother is that the time simply wasn't right. Jiraiya wanted Naruto to concentrate on getting stronger and training, not being worrying about his past or possibly getting a swelled head. I think he intended to one day tell Naruto about his father, mother and the key to his seal all at one time, when he was mature enough. But up until now, it was best that Naruto just thought of the 4th as a Hokage to surpass.
Regardless the reason it was hid, I'm sure that Naruto will be told about his heritage soon. I really can't guess what his reaction will be. It'd be funny if it was something like "HA! I knew it! In your face Sasuke!" but I guess Jiraiya's death will make the news bittersweet for Naruto.
i think jiraiya turned down the hokage job because of the prophecy the toad said, you can't travel the world and observe nature if you are a hokage. i liked the fact that even though he did not have the title he still felt he had to be as great as one.
i also think that naruto won't make a big deal out of the 4th being his father. he prob won't care. /jiraiya/kakashi don't know which at this point but one of them already filled the roll of a father in naruto's virtual family, just like sasuke is brother. maybe it will be like HunterxHunter where gon did not feel like hearing his mother's voice because his aunt had already filled the mother spot
come to think of it, jiraiya could have already told naruto about his parents during their 3 years of trainning, and like i said above naruto did not care much..
i think jiraiya turned down the hokage job because of the prophecy the toad said, you can't travel the world and observe nature if you are a hokage. i liked the fact that even though he did not have the title he still felt he had to be as great as one.
i also think that naruto won't make a big deal out of the 4th being his father. he prob won't care. /jiraiya/kakashi don't know which at this point but one of them already filled the roll of a father in naruto's virtual family, just like sasuke is brother. maybe it will be like HunterxHunter where gon did not feel like hearing his mother's voice because his aunt had already filled the mother spot
come to think of it, jiraiya could have already told naruto about his parents during their 3 years of trainning, and like i said above naruto did not care much..
That's a very good point, I never thought of that...hmmm
I doubt it...He's going to be all shocked and and everything..that is if anyone accually tells him Minato is his father...See, this leaves me to wonder...Not many people must of known that Naruto was Minato's son, or they would of treated him better. And obviously they don't know about the whole "prophocie " thing or they would of treated him better because he holds the fate of the world. Then again, I'm guessing that the whole "him being shuned" as a child would be what makes him ready. Shuned as a child, so he wants to work harder to prove him self, so allowing people not to know about this "prophocie" and knowing he is not Minato's son, then they shun him in the tend resulting helping him either A. save the world, or B. Destroy it. Now what I want to know is Jiriaya wrote this book for this Prophocie correct? Well, does tis mean Naruto is following this set story line in the book? If so, that means that Jiraiya know's the ending does he not? Well, I mean, since he had to make a choice to get everything in play, That makes me think that Jiraiya diidn't finish the book, because if he had, and it is supposed to follow said path, then they would have known, so then Jiraiya wouldn't be worring so much.
sabret00the
2007-12-19, 12:27
There are many things that are affected by Jiraiya's death. And, interestingly, most if not all of those will be related to Naruto. The child of prophecy is one of those.
I am more interested in the summon related issues that will be forwarded to Naruto. The first was the key left by Yondaime to Jiraiya as the temporary hiding place. That means, a small arc dealing with the training to unlock the key is to be expected. Another thing is what will happen to Jiraiya's summoning jutsu and the requirements that come with it. If Naruto is the only remaining alive human member of the toad summon familya, I expect Naruto to face the toad lords or elders, just like Jiraiya. If that ever happens, maybe we can learn a few other important issues directly from these elders. Information that cannot be obtained through normal means, even information on Kyuubi (Naruto was not forced to discuss that with Kyuubi, to learn about what happened before with him and Uchihas, even after the last Uchiha-Kyuubi confrontation). And, of course, I also wish a special summoning like what happened in hermit mode with Jiraiya but this time used by Naruto. It is not easy to make a comparison, but, I feel that may be as powerful as the cursed seal modes. (now that I think about it, maybe a bodily summon that can suck up Kyuubi's chakra at high rates without giving disturbance to the main host, Naruto, and making him go berserk, may become a great technique for Naruto)
your post pretty much covers all of my thoughts on the matter of Jiraiya's death.
Reading the manga i was pretty irked by just how far Naruto's abilities were dumbed down since the second bell match against Kakashi and it looks like he might finally get his power back up to be on equal terms with sasuke. I'm really looking forward to him surpassing Sai. And I also can't wait to see him use hair and toad techniques.
Which in itself leads to the question of, why wasn't he taught the more complex toad summoning techniques before? Can only one person do such techniques at a time?
Someone raised a question regarding the secrecy of Naruto's parents and i think that their idea is perfect for this. The truth is revealed to Naruto, he's thrown into turmoil. Leaves the hidden village for a small while searching for Sasuke on his own and comes back an arc later chosing to fix Konaha with his re-found faith in his ability as a hokakge.
All in all. It will just be nice to see Naruto doing more than the same two techniques over and over again (henge and kage bunshin). Finally the authors been backed into a corner where by he has no choice but to give Naruto a power up.
Also thinking about it, Naruto will need to go and look at the whirlpool country and learn a few of their techniques, not to mention find out about his mothers Kage Bunshin fighting technique and assimilate that knowledge.
tkdtiger
2007-12-19, 21:04
Naruto is the detined child isn't he? I though that is what Jiraiya said...Now...what I'm confused on...Is it Jiriya's choice teh decideds the fate or teh world or the detined child's choice?
True Jiraiya stated that Naruto was the destined child, but at the same token for the longest time he thought Nagato was the destined child. I'm wondering if the choice he had to make turns out to be a choice of choosing Naruto or Nagato and in the end he chose Naruto...
True Jiraiya stated that Naruto was the destined child, but at the same token for the longest time he thought Nagato was the destined child. I'm wondering if the choice he had to make turns out to be a choice of choosing Naruto or Nagato and in the end he chose Naruto...
You know...I never thought of that....They never did say what exactly was supposed to be Jiraiya's "Choice." For all we knew his choice could of been to eat a bowl of chicken noodle soup... :D But yea, that is a very good possibility...Now, I must re think my whol thing of what could happen next based off this new data..(I'm going off of a lot more and comming up with possible answers :heh: So, tis be new data I can work from..YAY I have something to do instead of pay attention in math...((We are supposed to be working on some project but I'm done and my teacher is just going on and on....)
tkdtiger
2007-12-20, 12:24
You know...I never thought of that....They never did say what exactly was supposed to be Jiraiya's "Choice." For all we knew his choice could of been to eat a bowl of chicken noodle soup... :D But yea, that is a very good possibility...Now, I must re think my whol thing of what could happen next based off this new data..(I'm going off of a lot more and comming up with possible answers :heh: So, tis be new data I can work from..YAY I have something to do instead of pay attention in math...((We are supposed to be working on some project but I'm done and my teacher is just going on and on....)
haha well I'm sure you'll come up with something interesting with all those equations stuck in your head ;)
ChojinLocke
2007-12-20, 17:17
You know...I never thought of that....They never did say what exactly was supposed to be Jiraiya's "Choice." For all we knew his choice could of been to eat a bowl of chicken noodle soup... :D But yea, that is a very good possibility...Now, I must re think my whol thing of what could happen next based off this new data..(I'm going off of a lot more and comming up with possible answers :heh: So, tis be new data I can work from..YAY I have something to do instead of pay attention in math...((We are supposed to be working on some project but I'm done and my teacher is just going on and on....)
They did say and it is in the last page of the last chapter.
tkdtiger
2007-12-20, 19:44
They did say and it is in the last page of the last chapter.
well he did say that his choice was never to give up, but at the same token I think it's a combination of choices that he made that shaped "destiny" He taught Nagato, which could bring chaos and destruction, but than he decided to teach Naruto who is could be viewed as being destined to bring about order. In a sense he originally had no plans to teach Naruto, but eventually did. If he hadn't trained Naruto than the world would definately be sent into chaos. lol
ChojinLocke
2007-12-21, 09:54
well he did say that his choice was never to give up, but at the same token I think it's a combination of choices that he made that shaped "destiny" He taught Nagato, which could bring chaos and destruction, but than he decided to teach Naruto who is could be viewed as being destined to bring about order. In a sense he originally had no plans to teach Naruto, but eventually did. If he hadn't trained Naruto than the world would definately be sent into chaos. lol
This is false logic. If he hadnt trained Naruto then the prophecy wouldnt exist. It would be a paradox because the prohecy was always meant to refer to Naruto and not Nagato in any way.
For some reason people are trying to make Nagato a part of the prophecy when this is not the case. You see the meaning of the chapter was to show that it refers to Naruto rather than Nagato who was also a pupil. Indeed the only thing Naruto and Nagato share are that they are pupils of the same teacher. The destruction or revolution part refer to the same person not to different people : they are choices the same person (Naruto) will have to make and that must be referring to Kyubi as well (Yin and Yang).
I think when they were talking about the destined child's power to destroy the world they weren't talking about they kyuubi being inside naruto and the potential danger. but i don't think they were taling about physical strenght when they were talking about naruto's power to bring peace. I think has more to do with naruto's heart, and as tsunade put it,to quickly become friends with anyone he meets, and have them believe in him. i know it sounds cheesy, but i think that is where they are going with this. or maybe the kyuubi will come to respect naruto's determination so much that he lends him his full help minus the nasty side effects
tkdtiger
2007-12-21, 10:21
This is false logic. If he hadnt trained Naruto then the prophecy wouldnt exist. It would be a paradox because the prohecy was always meant to refer to Naruto and not Nagato in any way.
For some reason people are trying to make Nagato a part of the prophecy when this is not the case. You see the meaning of the chapter was to show that it refers to Naruto rather than Nagato who was also a pupil. Indeed the only thing Naruto and Nagato share are that they are pupils of the same teacher. The destruction or revolution part refer to the same person not to different people : they are choices the same person (Naruto) will have to make and that must be referring to Kyubi as well (Yin and Yang).
I don't think it's false logic. For one I'm not saying Nagato is the destined child. I'm saying Jiraiya's choices began before his desire not to give up. It started when he decided to teach Naruto. If he had not taught Naruto than I'm sure Nagato and Akatsuki would have sent the world into chaos and destruction much sooner. Well I have to also say that Nagato actually is more connected than some may want to believe, since Jiraiya was fulling his choice to send a message to Naruto about Nagato. So he's definately part of the prophesy. He's just not the destined child to bring order to the world.
ChojinLocke
2007-12-21, 10:31
I don't think it's false logic. For one I'm not saying Nagato is the destined child. I'm saying Jiraiya's choices began before his desire not to give up. It started when he decided to teach Naruto. If he had not taught Naruto than I'm sure Nagato and Akatsuki would have sent the world into chaos and destruction much sooner. Well I have to also say that Nagato actually is more connected than some may want to believe, since Jiraiya was fulling his choice to send a message to Naruto about Nagato. So he's definately part of the prophesy. He's just not the destined child to bring order to the world.
Yes it is false logic because it is the prophecy that gives meaning to Jirayas choice not Jirayas choice giving meaning to the prophecy. To put it more simply you are saying if Jiraya didnt teach Naruto..well what if Jiraya didnt teach Nagato? Those 'ifs' dont count in prophecies because prophecies are like a written yet unread testament which the carrier observes and reads when he can no longer influence the outcome in a prohibitive way. All Jirayas actions were influenced by the prophecy including meeting Nagato, Konan and Naruto, but only Naruto is involved in this prophecy (by the way the destined child is not guaranteed to bring peace it might also bring chaos and destruction).
This is false logic. If he hadnt trained Naruto then the prophecy wouldnt exist. It would be a paradox because the prohecy was always meant to refer to Naruto and not Nagato in any way.
For some reason people are trying to make Nagato a part of the prophecy when this is not the case. You see the meaning of the chapter was to show that it refers to Naruto rather than Nagato who was also a pupil. Indeed the only thing Naruto and Nagato share are that they are pupils of the same teacher. The destruction or revolution part refer to the same person not to different people : they are choices the same person (Naruto) will have to make and that must be referring to Kyubi as well (Yin and Yang).
Well, even Jiraiya thought Nagato was the detined child. This was unclear untill Jiraiya said that Naruto was. All the prophocy said was it was one of his students. So, this is why Jiraiya thought it was Nagato at first, but then later realized it was Naruto.
tkdtiger
2007-12-21, 16:16
Yes it is false logic because it is the prophecy that gives meaning to Jirayas choice not Jirayas choice giving meaning to the prophecy. To put it more simply you are saying if Jiraya didnt teach Naruto..well what if Jiraya didnt teach Nagato? Those 'ifs' dont count in prophecies because prophecies are like a written yet unread testament which the carrier observes and reads when he can no longer influence the outcome in a prohibitive way. All Jirayas actions were influenced by the prophecy including meeting Nagato, Konan and Naruto, but only Naruto is involved in this prophecy (by the way the destined child is not guaranteed to bring peace it might also bring chaos and destruction).
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that to me it appears that he had many choices that lead Naruto into becoming the "destined child" and if he had kept on believing that Nagato was and never taught Naruto the world would have been thrown into chaos.
As you said and what I was trying to imply was that Jiraiya had many actions that lead to his current path and which will lead Naruto's. maybe I'm not explaining it correctly?
I think when they were talking about the destined child's power to destroy the world they weren't talking about they kyuubi being inside naruto and the potential danger. but i don't think they were taling about physical strenght when they were talking about naruto's power to bring peace. I think has more to do with naruto's heart, and as tsunade put it,to quickly become friends with anyone he meets, and have them believe in him. i know it sounds cheesy, but i think that is where they are going with this. or maybe the kyuubi will come to respect naruto's determination so much that he lends him his full help minus the nasty side effects
I think Kishi is very much leading to that. Cheesy in a way, but its shounen.
This reminds me of the Gaara rescue arc when Kakashi said that Naruto has an unimaginable power. And just before Chiyo died she said that Naruto has the power to change the future, so it does make a lot of sense that Naruto is the prophecy's child and will become the one who brings peace to the world.
Yes it is false logic because it is the prophecy that gives meaning to Jirayas choice not Jirayas choice giving meaning to the prophecy. To put it more simply you are saying if Jiraya didnt teach Naruto..well what if Jiraya didnt teach Nagato? Those 'ifs' dont count in prophecies because prophecies are like a written yet unread testament which the carrier observes and reads when he can no longer influence the outcome in a prohibitive way. All Jirayas actions were influenced by the prophecy including meeting Nagato, Konan and Naruto, but only Naruto is involved in this prophecy (by the way the destined child is not guaranteed to bring peace it might also bring chaos and destruction).
-[LOL and the fortuneteller said that the villagers near the shoreline will be safe from disasters, but earth scientists discovered a tsunami will hit soon. They evacuate everyone from the village and saves them. Scientists criticize the fortuneteller's prophecy for being false, but the truth is, the villagers were safe and avoided the disaster. Can you say there's much logic in that?]-
Anyways, the prophecy states that one of Jiraiya's students will become the destined child and also states that Jiraiya will have to make a choice. That choice could also mean that he had to decide which of his students is actually the destined child.
And remember, he said he made a choice just before he decided to kill Pein (although it ended unsuccessfully).
He chose to train Konan, Nagato and Yahiko.
He chose to train Naruto.
He chose to write his novel.
He has made many choices...
These events are all linked together somehow so really, you can't take any of them out of the prophecy.
ChojinLocke
2007-12-21, 18:00
-[LOL and the fortuneteller said that the villagers near the shoreline will be safe from disasters, but earth scientists discovered a tsunami will hit soon. They evacuate everyone from the village and saves them. Scientists criticize the fortuneteller's prophecy for being false, but the truth is, the villagers were safe and avoided the disaster. Can you say there's much logic in that?]-
Anyways, the prophecy states that one of Jiraiya's students will become the destined child and also states that Jiraiya will have to make a choice. That choice could also mean that he had to decide which of his students is actually the destined child.
And remember, he said he made a choice just before he decided to kill Pein (although it ended unsuccessfully).
He chose to train Konan, Nagato and Yahiko.
He chose to train Naruto.
He chose to write his novel.
He has made many choices...
These events are all linked together somehow so really, you can't take any of them out of the prophecy.
The choice was to never give up how many times do we have to repeat this? If you cannot find it written in the manga to satisfy your curiosity it is the last page in the last chapter. Therefore NO the choice has nothing to do with who the destined child was going to be that is only what he thought before thinking he killed Pain at which point he was still clueless. He thought many things before killing Pain (you mean thinking he killed Pain). But the last chapter is the true realisation of the prophecy not the part before he thought he killed Pain.
The prophecy is about one of his pupils (that is Naruto) and Jiraya had to make a choice (he did make it - he came back from the dead with willpower to pass the message to the frog - that was the choice he made : to not give up). I really dont understand what the confusion is all about. It couldnt be clearer.
All the other choices you are talking about who to train etc are indeed choices he made in real life but are not choices linked to the prophecy per see. What I mean is it was DESTINY that it would be Naruto not the result of Jirayas choice (indeed he chose Naruto but because the prophecy sort of forced him to do that - not sure it is understandable the way i explain it). And if it was not Naruto there would be no prophecy in the first place or as it is known : a paradox.
Basically when you make a prophecy you see a fog of the future. Then you explain what you see in the fog. The recipient cant escape his destiny. He makes choices yes but the choices dont affect the outcome they only clear out the fog so to speak. In other words Jiraya didnt know it would be Naruto that is why the prophecy came true because he didnt know. All prophecies in fiction work like that. Hope it's clear thank you for reading.
This is getting to be too much like Kingdom Hearts. Two were chosen to weild the keyblade one brings destruction to the worlds the other brings peace. In the end they worked together. That is probally what is going to go on here. Nagato will probally end up teaming up with naruto to save the world from what? maybe kyuubi maybe sasuke, who knows maybe The thing that will become when they collect all the bijuu's.
Naruto_spartan
2007-12-23, 22:49
This is getting to be too much like Kingdom Hearts. Two were chosen to weild the keyblade one brings destruction to the worlds the other brings peace. In the end they worked together. That is probally what is going to go on here. Nagato will probally end up teaming up with naruto to save the world from what? maybe kyuubi maybe sasuke, who knows maybe The thing that will become when they collect all the bijuu's.
This theory is very plausible in many ways.
Because you have to analize the factors and characters here. Nagato always wanted to protect his friends and comrades, but he cried a lot and suffered, like Naruto and Gaara, he was blessed with a great power, but there was no one to teach him what to do with it. Jiraiya could have been more fatherly to him, like Naruto is brotherly to many others. Yet it seams that either something went teribly wrong, or he choose the path of pain(in stead of sharing his pain and trying to find happiness and peace, he choose to take all the pain in himself and block everything else). He is much like Gaara, only less bloodthirsty, and somehow I feel that he is not a real evil.
I think that Naruto might open his(Nagato) eyes and succed where Jiraiya had failled a long time ago.
I know that this is a little optimistic, but somehow I feel that Naruto and Nagato are somehow destined to meet.
Not only do I agree with the two statements above, I actually do hope it turns out this way. I'd much rather see Nagato convert into a good person, (assuming he is still alive somewhere) then having him get killed off.
sabret00the
2007-12-24, 09:19
Naruto turning another baddie into a goodie would be kinda lame at this moment in time. at least wait until he's powerful for that to happen. i.e. when he's mastered his second elemental.
Well it's not like the fight is happening right now. And once Naruto masters how to manipulate elements in the first place, manipulating a second element should be slightly easier for him, I'd imagine, even if it's not his prime element.
Casshern
2007-12-26, 18:53
Jiraiya saying that Naruto is the chosen doesn't mean anything other than Jiraiyas own wish.
Both Pain (Nagato/Yahiko, who knows...) and Naruto fulfill the prophesy so far.
The chosen would be trained by Jiraiya.
Jiraiya would have to decide to either help or fight the chosen. He fought Pain and helped Naruto "probably" by leaving the Kyuubi key.
The chosen will either bring peace or destruction. The only means Naruto has to bring peace or destruction are becoming Hokage or releasing the Kyuubi. Pain fullfils the last part of the prophesy much better than Naruto at this point since the ultimate jinchuuriki weapon would be much more destructive than the Kyuubi on it's own (when it's completed), while his goal of world domination is much more likely to bring "peace" (even if it's a tyranny, peace is still peace) than Naruto becoming Hokage.
ChojinLocke
2007-12-26, 20:53
Jiraiya saying that Naruto is the chosen doesn't mean anything other than Jiraiyas own wish.
wish? sighs..what a pain... ok anyways it is not a 'wish' but a 'realisation'. But regardless believes what you want :)
****
Wanted to discuss about the coded message Jiraya left to the frog and how this might link to Pain's downfall (a possible weakness or secret identity). At any rate I tried numerically making some sense of it but was not so successful..I read a few opinions on what it might refer to (pages in a book etc) but I hope you have more constructive ideas on what it might be... I find it interesting though.... it's like a riddle even if it leads to a dead end because of missing clues.
tkdtiger
2007-12-26, 21:10
wish? sighs..what a pain... ok anyways it is not a 'wish' but a 'realisation'. But regardless believes what you want :)
****
Wanted to discuss about the coded message Jiraya left to the frog and how this might link to Pain's downfall (a possible weakness or secret identity). At any rate I tried numerically making some sense of it but was not so successful..I read a few opinions on what it might refer to (pages in a book etc) but I hope you have more constructive ideas on what it might be... I find it interesting though.... it's like a riddle even if it leads to a dead end because of missing clues.
That coded message is interesting...if it came from his books that he wrote then the only person I see solving it at the moment is Kakashi since he actually reads the series right?
I think naruto's mother is pein. They talked about how her style was similar to his... ie kage bunshins and she is also someone who read jiraiya's book. Why would there be a flashback to the time he met them and he is talking about the book that describes his adventures. Its a hint that only someone close to jiraiya ,who read his travels could have acquired those 6 bodies. Pein was made to fight naruto, they both have the same style of fighting.
ChojinLocke
2007-12-27, 07:47
That coded message is interesting...if it came from his books that he wrote then the only person I see solving it at the moment is Kakashi since he actually reads the series right?
Yeah...hmmm maybe that would then be Kakashi's big event (as per interview) - a kind of retelling of the story within and the solving of the riddle by Kakashi.. just a thought.
That coded message is interesting...if it came from his books that he wrote then the only person I see solving it at the moment is Kakashi since he actually reads the series right?
Either Kakashi or Naruto going out of his usual way and using his special KB training to read instantaneously all of Jiraiya's books.
Casshern
2007-12-28, 12:35
Either Kakashi or Naruto going out of his usual way and using his special KB training to read instantaneously all of Jiraiya's books.
With 1000 clones reading a page each, and assuming the books are about 300-350 pages (they're not so thick), Naruto can get through 3 books in less than a minute. Sakura would be so jealous of Naruto's awesome study skills...if his head doesn't explode :heh:
tkdtiger
2007-12-28, 16:04
I forgot about the kyuubi training...maybe it will be a combination of Naruto and Kakashi...you know having a partner researching stuff can work wonders : )
Ero-Senn1n
2007-12-30, 23:29
Either Kakashi or Naruto going out of his usual way and using his special KB training to read instantaneously all of Jiraiya's books.
I think that will never happen since Kishimoto will never allow Naruto to be an intelectual type :)
The training with a 1000 clones is probably not the same thing, it should allow him to try different possibilities, but the one good method is then used, i mean 999 out of 1000 clones do the wrong thing, then there's 1 that invents the rasenshuriken. But having 1000 reading a book is more similar to having 1000 clones each learn a different jutsu, while in the training we see most of the clones simply fail.
I think now that it's been revealed to the readers, Naruto is going to learn everything about his parents. It'll have to be Tsunade that tells him, who may well be the only living person who actually knows who his parents are since it seems like it was kept fairly secret(for whatever reason). I think this will all come up when he finds out about Jiraiya's death, and shortly afterwards he'll hear from the toads one way or another about the Kyuubi stuff. I'm guessing this will be the next focus of the story once the Itachi and Kisame fights have been wrapped up.
Sabaku Kyu
2007-12-31, 04:33
With 1000 clones reading a page each, and assuming the books are about 300-350 pages (they're not so thick), Naruto can get through 3 books in less than a minute. Sakura would be so jealous of Naruto's awesome study skills...if his head doesn't explode :heh:
Wait, why is it important that Naruto read all of Jiraiya's books again? With the exception of the book he showed to Yondaime, weren't most of them just trashy adult novels?
Casshern
2007-12-31, 20:32
Wait, why is it important that Naruto read all of Jiraiya's books again? With the exception of the book he showed to Yondaime, weren't most of them just trashy adult novels?
To discover Pain's true identity and learn techniques to win Sakura's heart at the same time...
...was the first answer that popped into my head.
Then again, considering the autobiographical nature of the 1st book, and that Jiraiya said he'd just "spice 'em up", I took it to mean that he would continue to draw inspiration for his novels from his own experiences, and uh... "exaggerate" a little :o Besides, Jiraiyas everyday life might not have been that far off from a trashy adult novel anyway... the scoudrel :p
To discover Pain's true identity and learn techniques to win Sakura's heart at the same time...
...was the first answer that popped into my head.
Then again, considering the autobiographical nature of the 1st book, and that Jiraiya said he'd just "spice 'em up", I took it to mean that he would continue to draw inspiration for his novels from his own experiences, and uh... "exaggerate" a little :o Besides, Jiraiyas everyday life might not have been that far off from a trashy adult novel anyway... the scoudrel :p
Yea, you may be right...I figured this book was differnt for Ichi Ichi Paradies though...
Naruto_spartan
2008-01-10, 12:48
It might certainly be.
We will see what the next few chapter brings (though I really hate these waiting periods).
It might certainly be.
We will see what the next few chapter brings (though I really hate these waiting periods).
So, lets get a giant army, go to Japan and force them to give us the next chapters so we never have to wait!
thetruth
2008-01-11, 04:06
It will be interesting to see who is the Destined Child. Pain is not Naruto's mom, Pain is a dude. If you are talking about Konan, she is the other student who was with Pain and Jiraiya trained them for a few years. The story just have not revealed what happened to Naruto's mother, yet. But we know that his father died by giving his life to save Konoha to defeating the Nine-tails, as expected from a Hokage.=)
Naruto_spartan
2008-01-11, 09:13
It will be interesting to see who is the Destined Child. Pain is not Naruto's mom, Pain is a dude. If you are talking about Konan, she is the other student who was with Pain and Jiraiya trained them for a few years. The story just have not revealed what happened to Naruto's mother, yet. But we know that his father died by giving his life to save Konoha to defeating the Nine-tails, as expected from a Hokage.=)
We also know that Naruto's mom came from another country.
Pein looks alot like Naruto and that's about it.
Also the name Kushina means something like 9 treasures or something. Kind of makes you wonder....:eyebrow:
BlackShinobi07
2008-01-11, 12:11
It will be interesting to see who is the Destined Child. Pain is not Naruto's mom, Pain is a dude. If you are talking about Konan, she is the other student who was with Pain and Jiraiya trained them for a few years. The story just have not revealed what happened to Naruto's mother, yet. But we know that his father died by giving his life to save Konoha to defeating the Nine-tails, as expected from a Hokage.=)
The destined child has laready been revealed to be Naruto.
Naruto_spartan
2008-01-11, 15:40
The destined child has laready been revealed to be Naruto.
Ok, so Naruto is the destiny child. We asume that he can either destroy the world or save it. So he bomes a revolutionary....
But what do you think he'll do? and how will he do it?
Ok, so Naruto is the destiny child. We asume that he can either destroy the world or save it. So he bomes a revolutionary....
But what do you think he'll do? and how will he do it?
Well, Naruto doesn't even know yet.....I think it be funny if he saved the world by comeplete luck. Like, he does something idiotic that everyone yells at him for doing, but by doing it it saves teh world...ooo the irony that would have
Naruto_spartan
2008-01-21, 14:18
Well, Naruto doesn't even know yet.....I think it be funny if he saved the world by comeplete luck. Like, he does something idiotic that everyone yells at him for doing, but by doing it it saves teh world...ooo the irony that would have
There is one thing about that, that rather disturbes me. First it was said that someone(Naruto) would become the destiny child, but then it turns into "they will either save the world or destroy it". Who is they?
Sabaku Kyu
2008-01-21, 16:00
There is one thing about that, that rather disturbes me. First it was said that someone(Naruto) would become the destiny child, but then it turns into "they will either save the world or destroy it". Who is they?
I think 'they' wasn't supposed to be plural, it's just a non-specific pronoun used instead of 'he or she'.
I think 'they' wasn't supposed to be plural, it's just a non-specific pronoun used instead of 'he or she'.
lol..Unless it's just one giant consperiousy! and there is accually more than one! Or perhaps the Kage Bunshins are the "They!" BY GOLLIE I'VE FIGURED IT OUT!!..lol..Anywho..Yea.....but how so? I'm trying to think of how "They" could be used for "he/she."....I think I might know..but yea..you get the point..:P
Legendary ninja, gentleman, illustrous writter and open pervert, Jiraiya of the Sannin has finally met his end.
His life and choices shaped the universe as we know it and the deeds of his students will soon save or destroy the world.
What changes will his death bring? How will his final choice effect the prophecy? Which one of his students will be the destiny child fated to bring peace or destruction to the world?
Naruto will freak out and try to follow the ones who killed him. But Tsunada will tell him to calm but he wont acept. Yamato will be summoned and after controlling they will make him realize if they could kill Jiraiya they could kill him too, not to mention they could also take away the kyubi from inside. Naruto then decides its about time he really gets strong. He hasnt been trying hard enough. He needs to get really strong now.
vision55
2008-01-26, 02:27
Who here thinks its possible that the code that Jman gave the frog...is the combo for the seal on naruto? And the entire training with Jman was how to deal with the broken seal....and we see naruto's growth finally.
nejirocks5
2008-01-26, 23:40
i think it would be very possible. either that or could it be a secret code for tsunade, then she would tell naruto who the leader is? btw, who is the leader? midato?
vision55
2008-01-27, 00:22
i think it would be very possible. either that or could it be a secret code for tsunade, then she would tell naruto who the leader is? btw, who is the leader? midato?
Leader of what...if its the guys who wear black robes that has red clouds on it the leader is Pain....but there is a secret boss...i will not be the one to ruin the surprise
for you if you dont know who the secret boss is.
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