Clannad - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[monir]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Clannad, Episode 12.

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P.S. Premature voting is equivalent to premature... uhm... Do not vote in the poll without actually watching the episode. Since the poll is public, all of us can see who those premature voters are.

P.P.S. Episode 13 will not air until Jan 13, 2008.

[toxic_trance]

By any chance this is the last episode in he Kotomi Arc??? The preview gav e that sort of vibe a bit... but still, it feels a bit early...i thought the arc will end at ep 14 aybe

[Kang Seung Jae]

By any chance this is the last episode in he Kotomi Arc??? The preview gav e that sort of vibe a bit... but still, it feels a bit early...i thought the arc will end at ep 14 aybe

I believe not, the story is a bit too big to end in one episode.

[minhtam1638]

And so begins the two week hiatus of Clannad... no wonder I see 24 episodes instead of 26. (referring to two-cours anime in general)

[Phoenix14]

Well, this is episode 12, so we have 3 other arcs to cover...I think this could be Kotomi's last (or at least we are getting to the climax of it)

[The Chaos]

Yay another Ep With Kotomi violin....:heh:

[Dark Wing]

And so begins the two week hiatus of Clannad... no wonder I see 24 episodes instead of 26. (referring to two-cours anime in general)

Wait I thought the actual number of episodes were still unknown?:confused:

[Skyfall]

Well, this is episode 12, so we have 3 other arcs to cover...I think this could be Kotomi's last (or at least we are getting to the climax of it)

I don't believe that to be the case. It is way too early for that ... her arc just started, so i see no reasonable way of it reaching the climax this week (let alone the end).

[toxic_trance]

If Nagisa Arc is supposedly bigger than Fuko arc from what i hear... then within 20 i think rest neeed to be wrapped up. That leaves 8 to 9 episodes for 4 girls including Kotomi. From what it looks like, I think Kyou arc has already started a bit...so most probably we will have an end to Kyou arc almost just after Kotomi. Neway.. I have faith on KyoAni.. I m sure they know how to handle a story better than me, so hoping that every girl gets good screentime :)

[Phoenix14]

If Nagisa Arc is supposedly bigger than Fuko arc from what i hear... then within 20 i think rest neeed to be wrapped up. That leaves 8 to 9 episodes for 4 girls including Kotomi. From what it looks like, I think Kyou arc has already started a bit...so most probably we will have an end to Kyou arc almost just after Kotomi. Neway.. I have faith on KyoAni.. I m sure they know how to handle a story better than me, so hoping that every girl gets good screentime :)

That's what I was thinking. Nagisa is the main heroine, so I'm pretty sure they are going to give her more time.

[Kristen]

Well, this is episode 12, so we have 3 other arcs to cover...I think this could be Kotomi's last (or at least we are getting to the climax of it)

I kind of doubt it. I sort of feel like we haven't gotten into her arc at all, we just did the comedic start to it. My guess is that we still have this episode, episode 13, and episode 14 about Kotomi. So, I'm not even expecting this to be the climax, that's next episode.

Dark Wing: All we know as for now is that there are 8 DVDs announced on the official release schedule, each one holding 3 episodes. So, that means that this season will be 24 episodes. We don't know if there will be a continuation of it later in the year (Probably going from July to September)

[minhtam1638]

Wait I thought the actual number of episodes were still unknown?:confused:

You don't read parentheses, do you?

[ReizoSan]

Well i saw on wiki they say that clannad will have 26 episodes with maybe a second series which i don't think will happen but i hope it will, i would like to see kyou and okazaki get together after she kinda mentioned she fancied him, i know it looks set to be okazaki and nagisa but i think they both more than want to be friends but as she hasn't come on to him or said anything like that to okazaki then to me this will happen, anyone got any idea who that bloke is that tryed to snatch kotomi??.

[Xiaolang]

Random Curiosity now has a blog entry. Looks like this episode will end in a cliffhanger. :upset:

It looks like it's gonna be a loooooooooong wait.

[Cyz]

Screenshots (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2007/12/20/clannad-12/) of ep. 12 courtesy of Random Curiosity. Look at it at your own risk!
Hm, what's Fuko doing there?
--> On another note, we won't be seeing CLANNAD until next year :blush:

[ThoHell]

Ep 12
LOL....Fuko-chan is back! That was a great introductory scene by her! Guess she recovered finally from the accident.

And what's with the black butterfly that keeps following Tomoya around, that's like a death symbol or something, like those butterflies from Bleach.

[Klashikari]

Episode 12 : bullet summary and screencaps (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/clannad-episode-12/)

Thanks protoman for the little points ^^

This episode was yet again another great one for the friendship/family touch: seeing how the group is now really solid is a nice touch. Fuko appeared from nowhere, but they certainly didn't want her to be brushed off since she was done.
More toughts to come, but i feel this kind of nice structure and content become a routine ^^"

[Proto]

complementing Klashiklari's summary...


It seems the old man was an acquaintance of their parents as well. It seems he (and a group of friends) was somehow involved in the accident that befell Kotomi's parents. He asks from Tomoya that tell Kotomi that he knows that she can't forgive them, but at least know that they have been regretting it since that day. He doesn't go into any further details.

What Tomoya mentioned in the final scene was:
-We have met before, right?.... when we were children

[kct]

I am appalled at the people that drive the car that crashed the bus. People like that should not deserve to drive that sort of cars.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Damn.....

The last scene nearly confirms that the next episode will be the end/near end of Kotomi's episode.

[harukamae]

Wow, this was another awesome episode! The scene with Kotomi and the bus had me tearing up, I dunno why, just the expression and the voice coming from someone who to that point had been so...low-key and withdrawn.

Other than that, I'm curious to see what connection Okazaki and Kotomi have, and why didn't he remember until now....

And where the hell did Fuuko come from?! Not that I mind :-) but is that still comatose-spiritish Fuuko or awakened flesh-and-blood Fuuko? At any rate, seeing her go for the star made my day! :-D

I'm going through some serious Sunohara withdrawal. That poor bastard, Okazaki gets all the girls. And now we have to wait like two or three weeks for the next Clannad! *sobs*

[Bankai29]

Nuuuuuuuu...the final episode of Clannad this year... :(

Looks like A LOT happened in this episode...seems like only one episode to go to finish Kotomi's route...:upset::upset::upset:

[panzerfan]

I see the reappearance of the great Ant Eater from Kanon XD
Alot of people have remarked on Nico Nico about Kyou acting like Haruhi in this episode.
Okazaki's summon is just awesome.
Slight possible AIR reference in the contrail flying overhead... although maybe not in this case.

Ryou was fortunate. Very interesting to see how much Kyou cares about her.
Although that bus incident triggered Kotomi's memories, she's also fortunate in having that group of people with her at the right time.
Lastly, I've never expected Fuko's astral projection to be stubborn to this point.



Leaving the story over this crucial point... makes me wonder what beholds. I am glad that Kyou's tsukkomi really lightens the mood in the beginning since what follows is rather morbid.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Actually, after rewatching the episode, I would say we will have at least two more Kotomi arc episodes.


The only major disappointment I have: We need more chibi Kotomi.

[amoirsp]

Well I tend to like episodes that have a lot happen in them. This episode wasn't any different.

However, the basis for that certain joke in the middle of the episode before the commercial, due to the earlier truncation and tone down in episode 10 makes the joke have no basis since the part that was removed from episode 10 was supposed to make that portion make sense.

Though since it's visually obvious, it's not as much of an issue. And the fact that it is minour makes it relatively unimportant.

Is it just me or do the characters "shake" a lot more? Like when you see a character talking, it's like repetitive subtle movements. Maybe it's more obvious in this episode because of Kyou and tsukkomi or yelling/shouting/speaking-in-a-louder-tone-to-emphasize-a-point patterns.

On the other hand the progress has good accuracy. What you see was pretty much originally there (at least main points.), oh and plus more imagery (aka quick flashbacks or something you can see that denotes foreshadowing).

Although Fuuko wasn't originally there obviously, it also proves (hopefully) that the random Fuuko inputs in later episodes potentially can throw her in as well. I suspected this was possible, though I didn't suspect her appearance in this episode mainly because she does not co-exist in Kotomi's route.

Now personally, I think that's the astral projection. Why? The hat. More specifically, the tricorn on her head.

And yes if it wasn't glaringly obvious already, Tomoyo isn't inclusive in Kotomi's route.

Of course due to the opportunity cost generated by Nagisa, the guardian's question was altered, as well as the relationship response, and the 3-A teacher's context. Though the main point was maintained, and that the route can still finish while making sense, wonder what would be the transition to the next arc.

Now that episode 10 truncation still makes less sense. If it was nullified to present the idea that Clannad is no Haruhi, you still get a contradiction from this episode with indirect Kyou dominance.

And no, Nagisa's arc is not longer than Fuuko's. However, it can very easily be paced just as slowly, if not slower. Ironically, with all the Nagisa emphasis, only like the first two or three episodes display basis for her route. The other episodes simply have her there.

Well, there were about 5 or 6 contrasts that I wanted to see in the anime. Two of the contrasts can appear later, while one wasn't implemented and was adjusted, but surprisingly the other 3 contrasts were put in accurately. No surprise the detailed accuracy to the scene covers almost all of it exactly. Impressive.


On a very random note, was Kyoani just very lazy in using the same person who had that blue car in episode 2 or so in this episode as well? It seriously looked like the same person and the same car, indirectly using the event in episode 2 to qualify for the incident. Pretty funny, though it wasn't mentioned since it's not very relevant.

[kct]

On a very random note, was Kyoani just very lazy in using the same person who had that blue car in episode 2 or so in this episode as well? It seriously looked like the same person and the same car, indirectly using the event in episode 2 to qualify for the incident. Pretty funny, though it wasn't mentioned since it's not very relevant.

It depends, not everyone is happy to see a moron destroying a perfectly fine Nissan Skyline GT-R :( (it gives some certain parties a reason to rag on us Skyline fanboys more...the only animated vehicles which is pretty obvious is the afromentioned Skyline, and a supposedly ultra-rare BMW M635CSi in episode 1, had they destroyed that more people will not be happy).

[Kaioshin Sama]

Oh hey, my favourite Key plot device is used in this episode. I remember I had said I would mention it when it turned up.

If you are in a Key series, if you want to live, for the love of god do not go anywhere within 100 meters of a bus. Better yet, do not go near any moving vehicle period. Drivers in Key series make drivers in Montreal, Quebec look like pros.

[kct]

I don't know wheter to say that you have met rednecks, or that people love to potray drivers of Skylines and Evos as complete d*****b**s in animes (see: Emperor in Initial D).

[Leo_Otaku]

A huge wtf to the fuko cameo. I don't think that was needed >.> It was suppost to be Kotomi giving to ufo catcher a try. I like how it is the kanon ant eater XD

They can probably end it for the next episode like I thought they would last week.

Very nice visuals in the episode overall good, but random fuko was just weird.

[Proto]

A huge wtf to the fuko cameo. I don't think that was needed >.>

Well you always have a legion complaining about the modular approach of Visual games anime adaptations, where girls whose turn have already passed always end up dead, no the hospital or otherwise shafter. kyoAni was just addressing the worries of such group :p

[IRJustman]

A huge wtf to the fuko cameo. I don't think that was needed

Hmmm, guess someone replaced the bulb in her astral projector. I'd hate to see how much juice one of THOSE things sucks down. For perspective, regular incandescent bulbs use about 250-300 watts, a 35mm projector short-arc xenon bulb usually uses about 3000 watts, and an IMAX projector lamphouse sucks down up to a hefty 15kW on its own.

And I'm not sure I would wanna be near one of THOSE things should it go BOOM. ;)

--Ian.

[wontaek]

Trust me, this is very relevant to this episode

Calabi-Yau Manifold FTW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabi_Yau

[panzerfan]

I am afraid that reading about Calabi-Yau manifold going beyond looking the renderings requires some understanding of Non-Euclidian geometry, and to understand superstring theory (which in term requires quantum mechanics, general relativity, EMF)... which for someone that hasn't touched even first year physics would be very toiling to do so in a very timely fashion. For one thing, I cannot really visualize an alternate 'dimension' similar to ours, when I recall that higher order dimensions are supposedly rolled up...

Leaving this gripe about these short hands and this lacking brain, I feel terrible for the situation for Kotomi, for having a wall of silence around her for so long... leaving her alone with her own thoughts is rather damnable to see.

[velocity7]

I pulled those Calabi-Yau manifold lines from Baka-Tsuki for this fansub, mainly because half the lines were being blocked, and I bet any experienced translators out there would have a hard time figuring out where this stuff comes from (let alone form a reasonable sentence). :p

Of course, that's not an important aspect of the story, but it could explain a certain something else... ;)

[Ascaloth]

Watched the TWH-Sprocket sub of Episode 12.

Wow.....I feel just terrible for Kotomi. I don't know what happened, but at least the "abunai no jiji" isn't really an "abunai no jiji". Still, even though not all of the facts have been revealed yet, it looks like Kotomi experienced something really traumatic in her past for her to behave this way now.

This episode is a 9, because it hasn't displayed everything we need to know about Kotomi yet. Even so, excellent episode, and excellent voice acting from NotoMami. Blog article coming up by tonight.

EDIT: About the Calabi-Yau manifold lines.....it's most probably going to fly past most people's heads. Heck, I read the Wiki article, and it's still far far above my head that I can't see it at all. Knowing otakus, most of them are probably going to associate this with Haruhi's "closed space". :p

[IRJustman]

EDIT: About the Calabi-Yau manifold lines.....it's most probably going to fly past most people's heads. Heck, I read the Wiki article, and it's still far far above my head that I can't see it at all. Knowing otakus, most of them are probably going to associate this with Haruhi's "closed space". :p

This might be a better springboard: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabi-Yau_manifold

From what I can gather, this principle allows you to take normal three-dimensional space and one-dimensional time-space and expand it to more dimensions, adding six or seven additional dimensions per this article. The normal English Wikipedia article goes into further detail about the mathematics surrounding the principle.

--Ian.

[kct]

Basically, it is something that goes beyond normal physics.

[Aetheri]

Oh hey, my favourite Key plot device is used in this episode. I remember I had said I would mention it when it turned up.

If you are in a Key series, if you want to live, for the love of god do not go anywhere within 100 meters of a bus. Better yet, do not go near any moving vehicle period. Drivers in Key series make drivers in Montreal, Quebec look like pros.

Wait, what are you talking about?
Nobody died from that bus accident. Ryou was fine, as were the drivers of both vehicles. What you really need to worry about with key are CAR crashes.
Little Busters notwithstanding, of course. And they were fine in the end anyway.
Speaking of car crashes, we've already had two of those.
And we should be getting at least one more, even if it's flashback-only.

[toxic_trance]

By half time when I saw Fuko makin an appearance..I was like WTF, because I felt that it really cheapened the intensity that Fuko's Arc had created. Somehow, i think that although a funny scene was intended, using Fuko was a HUGE mistake. Using her at a time of more seriousness to comfort Okazaki would have been a better option. Having thought of all this, I was expectin I would be givin this episode a 6.....

BUT...

WHOA, the transition of Kotomi's Arc to a serious one was simply and absolutely Brilliant. The pacing was perfect, and by the end of the episode, U have a feeling of pain and fear left in ur heart, although you really cant explain why. Had this episode not had the Fuko appearance, this would have surely got a 10 from me.

I still think that KyoAni did a terrible mistake by makin Fuko appear in this manner, but they are lucky since the 2nd half makes up for this.

But, one thing I think, that all of us CLANNAD fans will crib about after this episode is about the 3 weeks wait for the next episode :(. THIS IS GOIN TO BE A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG WAIT :(

[FCS-31]

Fuko's appear is a story happens in tomoyo arc in game.

[Ascaloth]

By half time when I saw Fuko makin an appearance..I was like WTF, because I felt that it really cheapened the intensity that Fuko's Arc had created. Somehow, i think that although a funny scene was intended, using Fuko was a HUGE mistake. Using her at a time of more seriousness to comfort Okazaki would have been a better option. Having thought of all this, I was expectin I would be givin this episode a 6.....

BUT...

WHOA, the transition of Kotomi's Arc to a serious one was simply and absolutely Brilliant. The pacing was perfect, and by the end of the episode, U have a feeling of pain and fear left in ur heart, although you really cant explain why. Had this episode not had the Fuko appearance, this would have surely got a 10 from me.

I still think that KyoAni did a terrible mistake by makin Fuko appear in this manner, but they are lucky since the 2nd half makes up for this.

But, one thing I think, that all of us CLANNAD fans will crib about after this episode is about the 3 weeks wait for the next episode :(. THIS IS GOIN TO BE A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG WAIT :(

In a way, I actually think that KyoAni knew what they were doing when they put Fuuko of all people there as the comedic relief. In a way, it's like Fuuko telling us, "Oh sure my real body is in a hospital bed, but otherwise I'm fine, my problems are all settled, and right now I'm having the time of my life! I'm not Tsukimiya-san, so you guys don't have to cry for me!" :D

So in that sense, KyoAni/KEY probably don't want you to think of CLANNAD as an out-an-out tragedy. Unlike AIR, there's a clear-cut silver lining in Fuuko's cloud.

[Deathkillz]

I personally didn't find the fuko intrusion funny...(find the crane part made me chuckle but thats it O.O).
Seemed like nonsense to me to have her materialise from nowhere.
But this arc is about kotomi and I have to stress how awesome that scream of pain was (kudos to noto :3).

I say this is going as expected. Tragic past, parents dead, all the usual same old :rolleyes:

[Ruhisu]

When I saw Kotomi screaming in pain I was is shock. Well "shock" can't despribe things what I was feeling in that moment but it was so tragic that I wanted to jump into the screen and help her.
Good that the thing with the old man is clear now, I'm happy that he's not a bad person at all.
I love the shape of the episode, it was funny to the half and the tragic part of the episode kicked my ass.
Although I can't wait for the episode 13 to see Okazaki's garden duties :D
This episode has something from Kanon. Okazaki knows Kotomi-chan from the past just like Yuuchi and Mai.
But this episode made me love Kotomi-chan more and more :love:
For example: http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u37/Ingram20pl/Ingram20pl2/kotomikawaii.jpg :love:
Kotomi-chan I'm with You ! :)

[pagan poor]

Trust me, this is very relevant to this episode

Calabi-Yau Manifold FTW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabi_Yau

Being a Doctor Who fan, I'm kinda aware of the subject itself. We'll see how that relates to the parents plane crash. Also it may also relate to the "alternate world" sequence with the girl and the handmade "robot".

Great episode. Nice mix of inanity and drama.

[Kristen]

Well, this episode was the kind that seemed absolutely amazing, but just extremely confusing, since I don't know the plot lines of Clannad. But, something still tells me that this arc has 2 more episodes left. It doesn't seem like it's going to resolve next episode, or TBS wouldn't put their break now, but after next week.

Fuuko was quite the random appearance. I was happy to see her back, thinking that she might become part of the storyline, but then she disappeared, meaning it was just a cameo. :( I really hope Kyoto doesn't try that again, because it really failed.

LOL at the anteater from Kanon.

LOL at Kotomi's "It bends here."

And also, Mamiko Noto's scream has yet again sent chills down my spine. Having her scream as Hecate was enough to rip my spine out of my back. I wanted to never hear her scream again. Why? Why do you have to scream? It gives me more chills than the Nazgul of LOTR! :(

I'm giving this episode an 8, which is my lowest rating of the series so far. As a game virgin, this episode seemed to just jump around and confuse me, spending a bit too much time foreshadowing, and too little time explaining. It was definitely enjoyable, it just wasn't up to par with my expectations.

Now, 21 days until the next Clannad. It's strange that they're having this pause for Clannad when they didn't for Kanon, although they both started at the same time, and both had 24 episodes in the first season. Maybe they're trying to prepare us for a 3 month wait from April-June for Clannad Season 2 (Hopeful! Hopeful!) :p

[Joachim]

man.. that kotomi's scream slice my heart = (

its just so well animated that i was making face like tomoya after seeing kotomi breakdown like that

lol yea the infamous bus or traffic accident in key series, but still whats wrong with that? call me key maniac/fans but i love their story telling, and don't tell me other anime (such as Gundam) dont use some repeated plot device

sorry if i sounded offensive, but.. well i dunno = /

[SidVicious]

Two weeks without new CLANNAD episodes....what a cruel world... :(

[kim8268]

before my comment on this episode, at least 3week no clannad freak me out and I was about to watch episode 13 (sorry If I offended anyone but as a otaku i'm a little pissed and sad at the same time) well lets give them a rest on translating the episode I guess because Its almost christmas. Merry Christmas everyone and Happy New Year (I got to say this not because im a member but a friend)

hey anyone can you give me A pic or fan art of any clannad character with a long ears, I'm going to make a card token on my game Magic the Gathering

[Rhyel]

Complete episode.

Fun at start, going to innocent love, surprise and very Sad at end.

I don't like Fuko special participation, but understand the moment was appropriate. Gift to Fuko-chan fans.

Clannad is a masterpiece of voice actors and ambient sounds. The time was too fast watching this episode in special. Kotomi-Chan will waiting in this scary room, until 2008. :(

[Antenor]

While others complained about the fast pacing, I actually found it enjoyable. In the first half, there was a lot of things happening, but it was mostly day-to-day stuff, character interactions, nothing too deep. The faster pacing was good, in my opinion. It was nice to see Kotomi bloom a little too. :)

But when the emotional payload hit, when she did that heart-splitting scream, it slowed down. I think that, at that point in particular, the faster-than-usual rhythm (especially for something involving Kotomi! :heh:) gave a good feeling of distress and urgency, basically putting you in the same mood as Tomoya.

There's something that really, really hit the spot for me in that episode. The pacing, the character interactions (I'm liking Kyou more and more), the voice acting (Mamiko Noto's voice gets to me it seems): they all seemed to mesh together into something I genuinely enjoyed.

This earns a 10 from me.

[Ruhisu]

man.. that kotomi's scream slice my heart = (

You said it, that totally kicked my heart

[cshard]

Damn.

I've already played Kotomi's route in the PC game and cleared it but... I wasn't expecting to be hit as hard as I was when I watched the episode. Forget all the standard "wonderful performance by the seiyuu" type of comments. I think I felt something stab me when Kotomi suddenly cried out there. It's not often (although it has been getting a bit more common for me :heh: ) that a scene makes tears come to my eyes, but it's even more rare for me to choke up slightly and be rendered speechless.

Migoto desu, Noto-san, Kyo Ani.

Well, looks like the shit has hit the fan. Two weeks to wait before watching episode 13...well, I suppose knowing the conclusion helps, but damn if it's irritating to wait anyway.

Thoughts...

Kotomi's quite talkative to Nishina-san now... I'm a little curious about that tear that fell from Kotomi's eye - I suppose it's related to what the violin means to Kotomi.

Kotomi peering at her classmates with those puppy like eyes was cute. :heh:

Thanks to a lack of a sub, I think I shall have to postpone my thoughts on Kyou's manzai drill sergeant routine and Kotomi's lame joke. :heh: Well... other than saying "Good Job!" to Kyou's excellent tsukommi timing. XD

A red faced Kotomi trying not to burst into laughter is a beautiful thing to behold.

I wonder just how much of that entire trip to the shopping district did Tomoya have to pay? :heh: Can't see Kyou letting him off the hook after his last few misdirections. (plus I remember Kyou browbeating him into paying most of it in the game) And Kyou has high expectations for her UFO catcher prize indeed. I was thinking that having Yukine do the honours for the Anteater would have been more appropriate than Fuuko though. XD

Love the little touches Kyo Ani added to a standard character appearance scene. XD Fuuko losing her balance twice is a sight to behold. (Although very much in character) Her appearance was somewhat out of place... but I suppose needed seeing what's coming next.

Hmm, Tomoya walking Kotomi back home in the game is understandable, given their closer relationship there...but I'm a little surprised that Kyo Ani allows that to happen without some protest from Kyou at least. XD Well, I suppose the others are independant enough...

I forget what was the book that Kotomi gave to Tomoya. Can anyone who remembers the game better than I can refresh my memory via PM?

Poor hige-jiji - when I was watching the scene when Kotomi was hiding from the "warumono" wioth Tomoya, I was thinking that the poor guy looked a lot like the Taiyaki vendor who was always being patronised (harrassed) by Ayu. :heh:

Tomoya's been blushing a lot in Kotomi's presence. XD First in the Library last ep and now today. In any case, good job Kyou-sensei!

Kyou's reaction to Nagisa's words, her reaction to the accident scene and that relieved hug she gave Ryou - hard to imagine the scenes done any other way. Such close siblings are a wonderful thing indeed.

And of course...

Seeing Kotomi's sudden hysterical reaction to the accident scene was heartwrenching to say the least. On its own, the visuals itself are already something, but when you add her scream to it, it's hard to keep unemotional about it. Kyo Ani animates a good mental breakdown scene. :heh:

Some strategic word replacement by Kyo Ani... but then again, Kotomi's route was the second easiest to remove the romance from.

I'm wondering why Kyo Ani made such a focus on that black butterfly...

Hige-jiji suddenly transforms into a nice guy. XD

Putting aside that fact that Kotomi's house is practically unlocked, her room looks pretty freaky in full animation. It wasn't that bad in the game imo. Also, I was kinda expecting Kotomi to turn around before the credits ran from dramatic purpose, but I do seem to recall she never faced Tomoya in the original scene. Hmm.

Sigh, looks like I'll have to rely on the game to get me past the two weeks without Clannad. :heh:

[wontaek]

Being a Doctor Who fan, I'm kinda aware of the subject itself. We'll see how that relates to the parents plane crash. Also it may also relate to the "alternate world" sequence with the girl and the handmade "robot".

Great episode. Nice mix of inanity and drama.

Wow! a fellow Doctor Who fan! I wonder if I am stretching things too much if I see some resemblance of personality between the 4th Doctor and Tomoya

[monir]

On the subject of Kotomi's newest of gags, "It bends here" while Kotomi points toward her elbow and the "Take it here" gag is accomplished as she makes the following face:

http://thumbnails3.imagebam.com/148/29898c1478283.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/29898c1478283)

I admit that I've a pretty imaginatively dirty mind, so impure thoughts spontaneously occurs inside that head every other minutes. Hence, I couldn't help but wonder what channel she was watching the previous night.

[Ascaloth]

Blog article out:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD (TV), Episode 12 (http://www.riuva.com/?p=915)

Sorry for the subpar effort.....rushing out two CLANNAD articles back-to-back in one day is not something I want to repeat, ever. >_<

[Kristen]

So, I want to understand something.

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7581/baddrivinghz6.th.jpg (http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baddrivinghz6.jpg)
That is the picture of the crash. Now, according to the report, the car jutted out into an intersection. Since the front right side of the car is so damaged, I'm going to have to guess that the car was just moving out into the intersection when it got bussed. Hence, it was coming from the left side of that intersection, as there was no way for the bus to hit it in the manner to deliver that kind of damage at the intersection.
The bus obviously was making a sharp turn to get out of the way (Quite good reflexes, I must say), and toppled over with the added force of the collision. Since he would be coming down on the right hand side of that picture, and he turned clockwise, shouldn't the bus be in the bushes on the far side of the road instead of in the middle?
Further, is this bus made out of steel or something? In this theoretical crash, the bus would crash into the front right side of the car, and not a full on collision, since by judging the roof, the back was unaffected. Now, that would have to mean that the front left part of the bus hit the car. However, why is there not even a scratch on the front left part of the bus? It's just the side that hit the ground that is damaged, for obvious reasons.

Anime physics can make a dictionary with an upward projectory, and this. :)

[Kinny Riddle]

At first I was going WTF at Fuuko's intrusion, but I knew at once how this made sense:

1 - In the VN, Fuuko made a lot of nonsensical appearances in Tomoyo's story if you scored a lot of "relationship points" with Fuuko while hanging out with Tomoyo. Though all these nonsensical fun is limited to Tomoyo's story, perhaps this insertion is to "appease" the fans of the other girls (Nagisa, Kyou and Kotomi).

2 - Since they're doing Kotomi's story now before getting to Tomoyo's story, they might as well do Fuuko's "random insertion technique" here, or risk the ire later by asking "WTF is Fuuko doing in Tomoyo's story?" Now they'll be able to say "WTF is Fuuko doing in other people's story!?" It's "fairer" that way. :heh:

3 - Remember Tomoya achieved "Fuuko Master" status. This probably means he has the ability to subconsciously summon Fuuko at random whenever he feels mischievous. :D

Know that in no way am I defending Kyo-Ani with this "WTF" act, rather I'm neutral about it.


Anyway, let's talk about Kotomi.

You know that sense of gratification when you read a novel, and then see its movie/TV interpretation being adapted line for line, dialogue for dialogue in a smooth way? This is it for me.

Though they seem to have truncated one scene:

They did not explain why Kotomi had tears in her eyes after making friends with Nishina Rie (girl from the Chorus Club with the violin). Those were tears of joy at having made friends.

Seeing Kotomi break down brings back the chills from AIR, when Misuzu also seemingly breaks down for no reason. (Not to mention the airplane contrails as well. )

More Kanon trivia: This time Sayuri-san's antelope is the target of Kyou's frustration, while totally being ignored by Fuuko.

[Rhyel]

So, I want to understand something.

Anime physics can make a dictionary with an upward projectory, and this. :)

The bus is empty, scholar is normally high height and light.

This situation is normally possible. :D

[IRJustman]

Wow! a fellow Doctor Who fan! I wonder if I am stretching things too much if I see some resemblance of personality between the 4th Doctor and Tomoya

Which one(s)? Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker (Tom), Davison, Baker (Colin), McCoy, (and I forget the other three, including the Fox special one involving the Eye of Harmony and the turn of the century)? Companion?

Mine's McCoy. Fave companion? The one who's only too happy to hand him some of that Nitro-9 she's not carrying. ;)

--Ian.

[Ruhisu]

On the subject of Kotomi's newest of gags, "It bends here" while Kotomi points toward her elbow and the "Take it here" gag is accomplished as she makes the following face

Oh my god! That moment was just fantastic when she started laughing! That makes me to give her another 100 kawaii points :D

[grey_moon]

I for one liked the Fuko appearance, it confirmed that she hasn't passed away, but hopefully will return and it also showed that in his heart Tomoya hasn't forgotten about her. On a less serious point I LOL'ed when she ran off with the star as that was meant to be Kotomi's gift. I thought the mahou shojou entrance with the party hat to be very well done.

The animation is again so well done. The way they draw Kotomi's face is just breath taking. The scene when she broke down and cried I found more touching then lots of other attempts by other animes, actually maybe even some real life actor films.

[HayashiTakara]

I'm gonna go ahead and sound like a rabid okaku and say "KOTOMI X TOMOYA 4EVA!!!!!!! "
lol

[Bankai29]

I wanna so shout that too...but it just like i'm hoping for the impossible...there were alterations of the scenes of Tomoya x Kotomi. It's like they're just friends...:upset::upset::upset:

Well, I just "wish" there's a least some Kotomi x Tomoya scenes next ep...err...next year...grrrrrr....waiting for more than a week...dead, i will become.

[Mirrinus]

You know, I was prepared to dislike the Fuuko cameo based on what I had heard, but I actually ended up finding it quite funny, and actually laughed a fair bit at that point. Yet another interesting diverging point from how Kanon was done.

So, uh...just what was up with that butterfly anyway?

[Divini]

In a way, I actually think that KyoAni knew what they were doing when they put Fuuko of all people there as the comedic relief. In a way, it's like Fuuko telling us, "Oh sure my real body is in a hospital bed, but otherwise I'm fine, my problems are all settled, and right now I'm having the time of my life! I'm not Tsukimiya-san, so you guys don't have to cry for me!" :D

So in that sense, KyoAni/KEY probably don't want you to think of CLANNAD as an out-an-out tragedy. Unlike AIR, there's a clear-cut silver lining in Fuuko's cloud.

You know, that's what I thought too. Now that she fulfilled her quest, she's free to go wherever she pleases in her astral form, and she's probably choosing to watch over her friends and help out when she can.

In fact, I'm thinking Fuuko's having loads of fun playing a sort of mahou shoujo and helping out her friends in distress.

Of course, this makes it given that this won't be the last time you'll see her. (I mean if it is the last time, in the end I would feel this whole scene is awkward) What I would really like to see is her comforting/advising someone during a time of great duress.

[panzerfan]

I am also in the opinion that Fuko is not to be grieved about, but rather a life that should be celebrated on. I rather have CLANNAD being more heartwarming than leaving bleeding hearts like how AIR was like. As such, I am actually in the opinion that this astral projection of Fuko will be seen very often... who knows, maybe having the real deal and the projection seen at the same time for that matter.

'Fuko master' summon is proving itself to be far more reliable than summoning a hero to participate in the grail war in comparison.

@Kinny Riddle: AIR TV was on the back of my mind the moment when contrail appears in this episode... the voice actress had done her role magnificently for this breakdown scene

EDIT1: Having seen both ends of the spectrum, to put my thoughts in a generalized form, I am surprised that some figures seem to carry such a presence onscreen that their appearance would always be polarized to this extent, whether it'd be good or bad as to actually impact the overall sentiments throughout the remainder of the performance.

[Reckoner]

All right here we go.

First half of the episode was quite light hearted with signs of Kotomi's pain here and there. Kyou was starting to act like Haruhi in this episode, and well the episode started to become a little bland. Up to this point it was going at a good old 8, but then they just had to bring Fuko along.

Aww, I think KyoAni really wants me to hate that character to no end. It wasn't funny, it was completely random with almost no purpose, and it distracts the attention of the episode from Kotomi whom I am far more interested in. Now lets just pretend for a minute that I actually liked the Fuko arc and felt the sentiments in it. This scene completely kills any sentiment that I would have, if I had it, by bringing her in. Yea, it was very sad that I was in the hospital but look I'm already back in the next arc! What the hell? Ok this brought down the episode to a 7.

This with the second half of the episode we had the bus crash and the scream of Kotomi which could make anyone shiver. The episode started getting far more mysterious and in fact quite interesting. This part of the episode was going great and left the big cliff hanger in the end. I couldn't help but say "c'mon!" at the end. This is one of the few times in Clannad I've actually been very interested in the next episode. The second half of the episode ended up going at a 9.

So overall the episode gets averaged out to an 8, although if it were not for that dreadful character I would've given it a 9.

Kotomi met Tomoya as a little kid and bad things happened, ambiguous dream sequence of both of them in the first half of the episode. Kotomi's parents discovered some other world? With all of this to jumble around, I cannot even begin to understand what exactly is going on. I'm glad that this isn't very easy to figure out for me.

[Divini]

Main Char / Supporting Char[TH]
Okazaki Tomoya
Ichinose Kotomi
Fujibayashi Kyou
Furukawa Nagisa
Fujibayashi Ryou
Kotomi's Guardian
Ibuki Fuuko
Nishina Rie
20:07
13:43
10:59
10:53
9:19
2:53
1:29
1:21


Main Char / Supporting Char
Okazaki Tomoya
Furukawa Nagisa
Ibuki Fuuko
Ichinose Kotomi
Sunohara Youhei
Fujibayashi Kyou
Fujibayashi Ryou
Furukawa Sanae
Ibuki Kouko
Sakagami Tomoyo
Furukawa Akio
(Mysterious World)
Yoshino Yuuske
Botan
Kotomi's Guardian
Sagara Misae
Miyazawa Yukine
Mitsui
Koumura Toshio
Nishina Rie
Okazaki Naoyuki4:01:22
2:33:50
1:24:40
49:52
48:23
44:11
40:19
17:20
16:44
14:26
12:25
6:18
4:58
3:40
3:22
3:21
3:02
2:46
2:31
2:06
1:14

[iamandragon]

All right, just watched this episode! Finally! Exams are really killing us all...

An overall great episode. However the flashbacks when Tomoya entered Kotomi's garden was too bright in the 'past image' that it looked like the future instead of the past...

I noticed the black butterfly flying around in this episode. I didn't play the Kotomi route as it wasn't translated, so I might not know the significance of it. However, in the east, it is believed that dead relatives turn into an insect--usually a moth--to linger their child's house--not a common knowledge, and I'm not sure if the script writers know, so take this only as a reference.

[HayashiTakara]

a black butterfly is an omen of death... just fyi

Its basically hinting that there was a tragedy that occurred dealing with Kotomi... the rest you can figure out on your own.

[IRJustman]

Anime physics can make a dictionary with an upward projectory, and this. :)

<nitpick>

Don't you mean "trajectory"?

</nitpick>

--Ian.

[Ruhisu]

I am wondiring about what happened in the past that Kotomi has such a memories. I was not playing the game bacause I don't have PS2 to this is bothering me. I hope that fire in the flashback was not caused by Kotomi but when memories came back to her she screamed that she will be a good girl so this makes me worry. I hope that everything will be all right.

[HayashiTakara]

Kotomi makes a better match with Tomoya than any of the other girls... appearance wise and the way she acts with him... they look great together. Although Nagisa is gonna win i the end... even if she is incredibly boring, and old.

[Steg]

Man, what a bad episode to leave us hanging on for 3 weeks :mad:
Seriously, that Kotomi scene really struck a chord for me. I've never reacted in the same way in anime before. It got me really down, and I won't have next week's episode to pick me back up.

That being said, that scene was brilliantly executed (seeing Kotomi go so out of character was a major part in what made it so shocking). In fact this entire episode was compiled and executed well, I can't wait until the next one.

[X207]

if kotomi doesnt go to study abroad i think she'll make a tough opponent for nagisa. if she does leave to study abroad then they'll just stay as good friends.
imo the fujibayashi sisters asr a mere distraction as far as it concerns the fight for tomoya.

and will this hidden world stuff get explained later on when the series starts in january?

[GreatTeacherKen]

I'm not sure if your question is meant to be rhetorical, but I would think the hidden world stuff will be explained eventually, it'd be pretty bad storytelling if it ends up having no signifcance.

[SSJiffy]

<nitpick>

Don't you mean "trajectory"?

</nitpick>

--Ian.

Thanks. I had no idea what was meant by the former. Now it's funny. :p

[amoirsp]

Aww, I think KyoAni really wants me to hate that character to no end. It wasn't funny, it was completely random with almost no purpose, and it distracts the attention of the episode from Kotomi whom I am far more interested in.

The irony with the distaste with Fuuko's appearance is that such randomness with almost no purpose is that doing so is probably the only way to throw her into another character's route.

In other words, the only way to insert Fuuko into another character's route is to do something completely random with almost no purpose. Due to Fuuko's characteristics, it gives Kyoani more screwing around leeway because of the star/starfish and the astral projection sudden appearance (and it is quite clear when Kyoani decides to have fun with the animation during certain sequences, if it wasn't blatantly obvious enough). Incidentally, Fuuko is also personality consistent because of her more or less straightforward format.

This would also prevent the giant character appearance gap (like for Sawatari in Kanon).

Well, random Fuuko inserts do exist in the game, but in this episode instance it was an insert. However, because it is completely random, the settings had the capacity to have Fuuko's presence and scenes.

... looking at the topic review Kinny already directly stated it. However, since it is a random insert in the game, Kyoani probably believed they could run the random insert as soon as Fuuko's route concluded. This is interesting to the extent that some of Kyoani's inserts are indirectly faithful, meaning it's not exact, but the inclusion actually had either a certain plus (episode 10 had one) or a certain accuracy (that would be this random Fuuko insert).

And yes, Kotomi's breakdown is certainly analogous to Kamio's. However, anime-wise compared to it, it's toned down (though probably because it's not a cursed situation.)

In terms of foreshadowing, man, it's almost everywhere, but it's not like nothing is explained. Heck, Fuuko's random inserts are very indirect too. Divini has the idea right, or rather that would be what I would have thought. The contradiction was that getting that toy wasn't exactly great duress though I guess it's small duress.

The episode was interesting enough to watch the next one, and to wonder about later routes.

[pagan poor]

Wow! a fellow Doctor Who fan! I wonder if I am stretching things too much if I see some resemblance of personality between the 4th Doctor and Tomoya

Which one(s)? Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker (Tom), Davison, Baker (Colin), McCoy, (and I forget the other three, including the Fox special one involving the Eye of Harmony and the turn of the century)? Companion?

Mine's McCoy. Fave companion? The one who's only too happy to hand him some of that Nitro-9 she's not carrying. ;)

--Ian.

Keeping this stuff off the thread topic.

First, 4th Doctor = Tom Baker.

Second, I think Tomoya would be closer to the 9th Doctor, Chris Eccleston, as he seems to help people, but likes to guard his secrets carefully, though you could probably say that about most of the docs. Btw, the Fox one does count. :)

Fave doc? Hmm... I'll just say "splendid chap.. all of them!"

Fave companion.. probably Romana as she seemed the most useful. :)

The Time Crash ep with Davison (5) and Tennant (10) was very nice.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Kotomi's parents discovered some other world?

Welcome to the world of quantum mechanics.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Hmm...Now that I think about it, considering the fact that there was still considerable space for some randomness and fun to be thrown in with Fuuko, why not? I'm not that clear about the theme of the last three arcs, but as the impression given to me about them was that they would be more or less a tad bit more serious than what we have seen so far, and that might give little chance for Fuuko to appear then, if not now.


What I got from the episode was that it's the usual brand of Key's 'mix and match' for their humor and dramatic stuff. Can't seem to get tired of it, though. :D

After watching Kanon 2006, I can't help but draw one or two parallels to the Mai arc with Kotomi's, the only difference being that Kotomi-chan has so far been the only one who has been in Tomoya's past before, while all the Kanon girls were involved in Yuuichi's. It isn't surprising to see that there was something tragic behind her behaviour since most of us were simply waiting to see WHAT kind of tragedy it was, but it was the way that she screamed and behaved later on that made my heart stop for a while.

While I couldn't understand the humor, it almost seemed as though Kotomi-chan might actually be seeking solace in making new friends, and while she didn't seem so willing to do so with others as compared to Tomoya, the relevation that she knew Tomoya from the past will also explain why she was able to converse with Tomoya more freely than with others.


I'm interested in this 'hidden world' theory too, but I'm guessing that the title doesn't simply refer to what Kotomi-chan's parents have found, but the 'hidden' world of Ichinose Kotomi that her new friends did not know about-except for Tomoya, of course.

Looks like I have to wait till the downloads are done to give any constructive comments...If I had any in the first place. ;)

[grey_moon]

Cthuhlu summoning, hidden worlds, tragedy involving parents, creepy old guy, constant exposure of the starfish (ie star born!)... Me thinks the Great Old Ones are involved! Poor Kotomi, maybe her genius is the result of exposure to R'lyeh.

[Bonta Kun]

Seeing Kotomi in a state of panic & distress has really got to me, made me wanna jump into my screen to give her a big hug. Also Kotomi doing gags really is one of the funneist things there are:p
But damn I somehow got the feeling they were gonna go with the "study abroad" route with Kotomi, and now its seems like they are:( really really don't wanna see this happen

biggest WTF of the year has to go to the Fuko appearance:heh:

and man what a lucky bastard Tomoya is, spending the day with 4 lovely, beautiful, uber cute girls!

P.S Kotomi @ "hands over the eyes guess who" = ROFL

[X207]

and man what a lucky bastard Tomoya is, spending the day with 4 lovely, beautiful, uber cute girls!


he's even luckier as all 4 hav feeling for him. all thats left is to invite tomoyo and his harem is complete.

[toxic_trance]

I still doubt that Kyou has feelings for him though. Even Kotomi might not be Romantically inclined towards Tomoya. Neway, that is an ever arguable topic :)

As for this episode, since the 2nd half is what impressed me so much, I m avoiding the appearance of Fuko which had really pissed me off.

I think the biggest strength in the 2nd half was Kotomi's voice acting (the scream) and the BGM, with th right music being played at the right intensity at the right moment. I have seen the episode 4 times till now, and I can still feel the intensity of the 2nd half mainly because of the music I think. The last scene of the room in which Kotomi was sitting was also animated beautifully. The 2nd half of this episode is infact one of the best paced beautiful representation of drama I have seen

Apart from all this, I would again like to point out to the amazing fluidity in animation that KyoAni has achieved. Unlike their predecessors, in CLANNAD u dont feel the characters are static at any moment, and animation of basic movements are very fluid and natural. Examples would be the scenes like
- After kotomi and Tomoya exit from the music room in the first scene, the close up on Kotomis face was done well, You almost feel her eyes speakin to u.
- The other scene would be when Kotomi sees the "Bad Person" appearing. The way she takes Tomoya's arm and then runs with him was done very smoothly

Except for the Fuko screw up(arguable) which I didnt expect from KyoAni, the rest was a true masterpiece

[rem]

This episode would have had a 9 from me if it weren't for the completely irritating, pointless and annoying Fuko insertion. Urgh. It killed some of the later impact of Kotomi's pain, unfortunately. The rest of the episode was very well done, and I'm wondering what happened to the poor girl...

8/10

[IRJustman]

As for this episode, since the 2nd half is what impressed me so much, I m avoiding the appearance of Fuko which had really pissed me off.

<excised for a moment>

Except for the Fuko screw up(arguable) which I didnt expect from KyoAni, the rest was a true masterpiece

Here's my rationale for Fuuko's sudden appearance:

Yes, it's to throw you off-guard. Perhaps to the point of going overboard. Whether KyoAni or VisualArt's/Key or both are to blame, I'll let those more-qualified answer this one. ;)

I suspect the whole idea is to keep you off-guard for that scene about 2/3 of the way into the show. I don' t know whether this had the same effect for the ones in the thread who've played the game and were equally blindsided, but no matter how you slice it, oh man. The sight of Kotomi going fetal like that was extremely heart-wrenching.

--Ian.

[Master Chibi]

Kotomi breaking down is good stuff.

[toxic_trance]

Here's my rationale for Fuuko's sudden appearance:

Yes, it's to throw you off-guard. Perhaps to the point of going overboard. Whether KyoAni or VisualArt's/Key or both are to blame, I'll let those more-qualified answer this one. ;)

I suspect the whole idea is to keep you off-guard for that scene about 2/3 of the way into the show. I don' t know whether this had the same effect for the ones in the thread who've played the game and were equally blindsided, but no matter how you slice it, oh man. The sight of Kotomi going fetal like that was extremely heart-wrenching.

--Ian.

Point taken, that the initial part was definitely made a very light hearted one and then u have the fantastic execution of Kotomi's breakdown. But still, Fuko's appearance could have always been substituted by Nagisa maybe taking out a Dango or something (just an idea off the top of the head). or maybe we could have had Tsukimiya Ayu chan makin an appearance out of nowhere to take out a Taiyaki shape toy (another crazy idea) ... but whatever the case, these two crazy ideas would have been much better than getting Fuko

The main problem is that the central point of Fuko's story was that she was disappearing from people's hearts. She was becomin invisible to people who cared for her and she cared for too. But now, its as if it was never the issue to begin with. If she could really appear this easy, it is like makin a mockery out of all the effort Fuko had put.

I think introducing a Fuko comeback would have been good when Tomoya is in a helpless situation. But this kind of killed the whole Fuko arc. Neway, inspite of what i consider to be the first error and a big one (arguable) at that, which KyoAni has made, they can be excused to an extent for the flawless execution of the second half.

Hopefully no more Fuko strange appearances like this

[IRJustman]

Neway, inspite of what i consider to be the first error and a big one (arguable) at that, which KyoAni has made, they can be excused to an extent for the flawless execution of the second half.

I can certainly understand your frustration. Though from what I gather, this may not be the last, though I dunno whether they'll go for the same Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot effect people have been describing like they did this time. As the old saying goes, "It's funny the first time".

Besides, VisualArt's/Key may have had a hand in it as well. Like I said, I'll let those better-qualified than I answer to this issue.

Hopefully no more Fuko strange appearances like this

Again, also from what I gather, I wouldn't bet on it (at least in this sense anyway). KyoAni may end up catching considerable flak for this one (though whether it was theirs or a joint one with VisualArt's/Key has yet to be determined).

--Ian.

[4ran]

I cannot believe that tomo did not remember Kotomi although the two had such painful history… atlss for kotomi! Why would he forgt such important thing ??

[Klashikari]

^ Remember that Tomoya was very young. Despite the usual "anime design", people can be very hard to recognize, especially if they never saw together from a long time.
Furthermore, considering the trauma, it might trigger a specific psychological defense of the said person... that's a common way for the brain to protect the fragile psyche, by simply dragging down the memories to the grave.

Finally, it is possible that his mother's accident happened after, which increase chance to completely discard painful memories or so.

It looks cliché in anime, but that's the reality: some scar can be engraved, other are such burden that your mind tries to discard it.

[bladeofdarkness]

I cannot believe that tomo did not remember Kotomi although the two had such painful history… atlss for kotomi! Why would he forgt such important thing ??

tomoya could have developed a Yuichi (kanon) syndrome due to something tregic

wouldent be the first time one of keys protogonists develops the "Yuichi syndrome" TM

case in point: Yuichi

[Owaranai Destiny]

^ Remember that Tomoya was very young. Despite the usual "anime design", people can be very hard to recognize, especially if they never saw together from a long time.
Furthermore, considering the trauma, it might trigger a specific psychological defense of the said person... that's a common way for the brain to protect the fragile psyche, by simply dragging down the memories to the grave.

Finally, it is possible that his mother's accident happened after, which increase chance to completely discard painful memories or so.

It looks cliché in anime, but that's the reality: some scar can be engraved, other are such burden that your mind tries to discard it.

Aw...I wanted to answer! :eyespin: For the trauma part, though, are you talking about Kotomi, or Tomoya?

Episode 12 thoughts:
-That's it. That's the end of my endurance to laugh like an idiot in front of the computer while my mother wonders what the heck is going on. Kotomi's 'antics' and the part where she laughed at her own jokes cracked me up and at the same time entertained me quite a bit. While The Return of Fuuko-Chan was relatively entertaining, I do believe that she wouldn't appear too many times as it would ruin any good lasting impressions left on people who are neutral to her, and that she might appear purely for purposes made known only to humor.

-The first thing that came to my mind when I saw the rabbit and the deer in Tomoya's dream was unfortunately 'TAXIDERMY'. Later, though, it seemed as though they might perhaps be purely a stuffed toy and a miniature statue respectively. A very good presentation on the part of KyoAni to mark the outlines of them as Tomoya came in.

-Trenchcoat Oji-san seems much nicer in the episode already and I'm feeling slightly guilty about having even the slightest thought that he was an evil bastard in the past two episodes. His attitude might even lead me to think that what happened to Kotomi-chan's parents might not truly be his fault as well. Is it possible that childhood scars can run so deep that Kotomi-chan will always see him as a bad person? Could she have misunderstood something...?

-Looks like they are gearing up for some Kyou, because her appearances gave me the feeling that she almost hogged the limelight here with the way she behaved and talked. I'm starting to like her even more already.

-What I'm REALLY interested in is how Tomoya got to know the Ichinoses, considering the few bits and pieces of his flashbacks seem to show him together with them in happier times, and it looks like we'll be getting the answer in the next episode with an excruciatingly long wait.

It was a pretty good episode here, but nothing absolutely explosive save for the shocking reaction from Kotomi. Bravo for Mamiko Noto, I'd say. A 9/10 episode.

[Klashikari]

Aw...I wanted to answer! :eyespin: For the trauma part, though, are you talking about Kotomi, or Tomoya?
Tomoya, mainly.

As for the other concerned person, Kotomi seems not to have been affected of "psychological defense", as she obviously have huge scar of the accident.
What's more is actually how they hinted that Kotomi didn't have any issue with Tomoya, despite she isn't good with strangers.

The first time Kotomi was friendly right from the bat, and got a special feeling with "Tomoya-kun". Afterwards, Tomoya himself wonders why she didn't have any issue with him, after what Kotomi said about Nagisa in episode 10.
Finally, in this episode, Kotomi said she remembered of everything, and she was okay if Tomoya didn't.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Tomoya, mainly.

As for the other concerned person, Kotomi seems not to have been affected of "psychological defense", as she obviously have huge scar of the accident.
What's more is actually how they hinted that Kotomi didn't have any issue with Tomoya, despite she isn't good with strangers.

The first time Kotomi was friendly right from the bat, and got a special feeling with "Tomoya-kun". Afterwards, Tomoya himself wonders why she didn't have any issue with him, after what Kotomi said about Nagisa in episode 10.
Finally, in this episode, Kotomi said she remembered of everything, and she was okay if Tomoya didn't.

And that trauma would be the death of his mother, I presume, especially if it came quick. I doubt a single incident like that would get him to forget EVERYTHING on the bat though. It might have been the fact that he had been living with a human who hardly valued his life at all currently that might erode his memories of his past with Kotomi-chan.

[Takuto19]

Was a fantastic episode, explained a few things such as how Tomoya had a dream about Kotomi's past, didn't really understand it at first but since i now know they were friends in the past it explains alot heh.

I'm not entirely sure why he forgot about her, will need to wait a few more episodes mabey to find out.

When Kotomi started shaking and crying at the accident it was really sad, i'm guessing it was because of the fire that brung back memories.

10/10 for the episode. Shame we have to wait 3 weeks til the next one :(

[Kristen]

<nitpick>

Don't you mean "trajectory"?

</nitpick>

--Ian.

Mardon py spelling. :p

Yep, that's what I meant.

[Deathkillz]

And that trauma would be the death of his mother, I presume, especially if it came quick. I doubt a single incident like that would get him to forget EVERYTHING on the bat though. It might have been the fact that he had been living with a human who hardly valued his life at all currently that might erode his memories of his past with Kotomi-chan.
I still think it is rather cliched for him to forget ever meeting kotomi - especially when witnessing such a hugh event in his life. Anime male amnesias are the worse type quite frankly XD (and funny how most often than not, it is the females that remember first or never forget).
This is a significant event in his life and I just find it farfetched that he could forget it completely until now (it's not everyday you see a burning blaze).

[GreatTeacherKen]

Great episode. I felt a pain in my heart when Kotomi flipped out. :(

I also really like the way of end of the episode was done. The almost blood-red lighting really makes Kotomi's house seem so eerie. But now we have to wait two weeks for some resolution of this uber-cliffhanger.

I'll reserve judgement on Fuko's appearance. I'll agree that if she only showed up for comedy value, it does seem a bit redundant, but I also think KyoAni may potentially go somewhere interesting with this that might well justify her appearance.

The hidden world stuff seems like it can open up some very interesting story avenues for this show.

[Bonta Kun]

I still think it is rather cliched for him to forget ever meeting kotomi - especially when witnessing such a hugh event in his life. Anime male amnesias are the worse type quite frankly XD (and funny how most often than not, it is the females that remember first or never forget).
This is a significant event in his life and I just find it farfetched that he could forget it completely until now (it's not everyday you see a burning blaze).

I too don't get the whole "forget something this big thing" but then it is known for females to remember things better than males. Altho that again is hard to believe when I see woman leaving stuff behind in shops, always a scarf or handbag:eyespin:

but its blasphemy to have forgotten someone as cute and as adorable as Kotomi, He should be hung, drawn and quartered for that alone!

[kim8268]

well i guess that some of my prediction was correct about the story plot

I guess it is almost similar to kanon (kotomi\Mai kawasumi, Tomoya/ Yuichi) but I hope that it will turn out unpredictable and tun out alright.

I like the story but not that tomoya once knew kotomi (it almost like kanon)

but it excited mewhen that kin of sceen happen

Merry Christmas guys

[Owaranai Destiny]

I still think it is rather cliched for him to forget ever meeting kotomi - especially when witnessing such a hugh event in his life. Anime male amnesias are the worse type quite frankly XD (and funny how most often than not, it is the females that remember first or never forget).
This is a significant event in his life and I just find it farfetched that he could forget it completely until now (it's not everyday you see a burning blaze).
I agreed with what Klash said regarding this subject; That this may all seem cliche, but it is in fact very possible for him to forget about this major event. The only thing we can probably complain about with good effect is the lack of explanation why there was a gap in Tomoya's memory, of course.

My own explanation would simply be that Tomoya had been too preoccupied with his own life. Selfish as it may seem, let's not forget Tomoya had went through a trauma of his own and his thoughts had probably skirted on despair and futility during the incident and after it where his father treated him like a stranger. Aside from that, I just think that it's pretty normal for humans to think of their own problems before helping others willingly (Present Tomoya and Aizawa Yuuichi being very good exceptions, though).

but its blasphemy to have forgotten someone as cute and as adorable as Kotomi, He should be hung, drawn and quartered for that alone!

Hmm...I'll just hang him upside down from a tree on a swelteringly hot day with his winter clothes on. :heh:

[dgreater1]

Just a simple question, how long did they enjoy their childhood days? Was it years? months? or days?

1) If it's years, the chance is, there's no way he'll forget about her name and the incident. Unless he's mentally ill, or is suffering from mental deficiencies XD

2) If it's months, the chance of completely forgetting the incident is small, but the chance of forgetting a name connected to the incident is a bit high specially if plenty of time has passed by. The only thing you will probably remember is that you were an acquaintance with such a person and such an event happened.

3) If it's some few days, like two to three weeks times+you were kids+probably 8 to 10 years has passed, well... who knows if you can still remember his/her face or even his/her name? For the Love of Hina...... Ahhh... Just think about Kei and Naru and you'll get the idea...

Now... go and speculate how long they enjoyed being friends when they were little. I probably would forget something like a room burning unless I've been reminded about it, I mean, who would want to dig out some nasty memories? (Well, unless you want to dig it out yourself) There's a chance I might forget about the name of the girl, and also, her looks, since memorizing name isn't my forte :heh::heh::heh:.

Anyway, in long, I probably wouldn't forget about the big incident, but my memories will fail the most crucial part. For example, I'm 5 to 7 years old, I have a friend and we've been friends for just about two to three weeks, then suddenly, I got into an accident and was sent to a foreign country to be cured. After several years without any contact with the said person, I will have forgotten that he/she exist (name and appearance) specially if I there are some issues that prevents me from thinking about the said person and time changes a person's appearance and I've already proven that from RL experience, so unless you remind me with "Hey, this is _____, and you used to play before." I probably won't remember the time we spent together. I would only go "Hmm... it feels like I've known you before." :heh::heh::heh:

Anyway, a memory that was Hidden away wouldn't come out unless you dig it out or someone digs it out for you. In this case, Tomoya's instincts made him remember the things he would have already forgotten if he hadn't met Kotomi. Think about the title "Kakusareta Sekai" or was it something like that? It means a world that was hidden/concealed, it doesn't just mean, to try and forget, but to naturally forget because the possibility of forgetting a tragic incident because of an even more tragic incident is very much true. And conversely, it works on Kotomi, She's trying to hide from Tomoya, the memories that they knew each other from long ago.

You don't really need a very detailed explanation about memory problems, it's our nature to forget things, important or not :p

Anyway, enough of my Rambling... Alcohol is affecting my head... but not enough to forget what I just post here and not enough to render me disoriented... but anyway, thanks to that alcohol, because I probably wouldn't post something like this.....

Added: In short, you would probably remember the incident, but you might forget the person connected to the incident.

[Kaioshin Sama]

My stance has always been that if there is no explanation given for something, but plenty of reasonable options to explain why it occured that are within the context of a series established possiblities, (some have more than others, like Fantasy or Sci-Fi) to adopt a wait and see neutral approach. When we start assuming things is when it makes it more or less difficult to accept a certain course of action later on, for better or worse, especially if it's not what we expected.

Let me cite an example of a previously sudden character reappearance:

Jeremiah Gottwald reappeared near the end of Code Geass Season 1 as some form of cyborg and many people called it a character resurrection and lashed out at the Sunrise team. Well if you look at the sequences that lead up to this, you see it's perfectly reasonable. Jeremiah was seen to have ejected from his Frame inside the cockpit and was later shown in a future episode in that "bacta container like thing" with scientists looking over him. The series had also established that Britannia had very advanced science capable of saving Mao's life even as he lay near death with many non fatal (thanks to Lelouche's failed command) but non-the less bleeding bullet wounds.

We can also assume that Jeremiah could have been healed and judged a prime specimen for some sort of Britannian science experiment. We can also easily assume that he never died to begin with(given how he merely seemed to pass out post-ejection) and was actually a victim, having his humanity stripped away in some horrible experiment, and that given the trend Sunrise animated series rarely revealing all the answers in a series in the span of one episode (something I actually don't like is neat and tidy simple answers) that there will be more explanation as to what happened to Jeremiah.

So why not wait and see. The same goes for Fuko.


In Fuko's case the path could have been left open for her reappearance given her astral projection ability. That would be good enough for me to adopt a wait and see approach. No explanation may have been given as of this point in the series, but that doesn't rule out one later. There are plenty of options and I think it's best to wait and see then to prejudge it as a bad decision or a story enhancing decision or whatever.

[toxic_trance]

I wonder if forgetting is such an unbelievable thing. I was hit on the head by a stone by mistake by a girl at the age of 6. I kinda fell in the middle of some fight. I hardly remember a thing about it. I dont recall my friend's faces who were there that time or the girl's face from that time.

Even if u r with someone at a young age, remembering a face from then is not very simple. As for the incident, it isnt unlikely for kids to imagine harsh things not happening to them. Its one of the easiest ways to make one get over a trauma.

As for Fuko appearance, in such shows, i never think that a defined explanation needs to be given. These shows depend on how u interpret it. There is no science in Ghosts or souls appearing, so its all about ur views and interpretation. But I must say, that from what I interpreted from the Fuko Arc, this appearance was a MAJOR tuen off. I have repeated this in practically every post of mine. Repetitive it amy seem, but thats how much i was annoyed at this work of KyoAni and visual Arts.

[Faust87]

Great episode, I like Kotomi-chan even more!! Ad Fuko-chan is back *___*

Anyway... the giant doll isn't the same of Kanon? O_o

[Tsukiyoshi]

Reminds me of Kanon with the huge doll and forgotten childhood friend!

I love Kotomi and her story arc!

[Solafighter]

Great episode!
Im looking forward to the next episodes. :)
But exactly now, winter brake. :upset:

[KaneDragon]

Ha at Kyou's tsukkomi slapdown. Win.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3313/kyoumeetatthestationat9ny9.th.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kyoumeetatthestationat9ny9.jpg)
"...Or heads will roll!"

Fuko's appearance was a bit abrupt, though still enjoyable.

And Tomoya really does have a knack for surrounding himself with attractive ladies. Forget other guy friends, he's too busy building his harem! Keep fighting the good fight, Tomoya. ;_;
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4627/casualclothes4theonlygujw8.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=casualclothes4theonlygujw8.jpg)

And of course, Kotomi's breakdown was painful. The wall of newspaper clippings and what not was a little (O_o), and yet, not that surprising. Poor Kotomi. ;_; Give her a hug already, Tomoya!

[othic]

So that short story with the line that is repeated in this episode. The line "The day before yesterday I saw a rabbit, then yesterday a deer, and today, you." or something like that, Was it just to point out that they've already met? I just realized tomoya's dream had a rabbit, then a deer, and then him :/

[Kyuusai]

When I saw Fuuko, I cringed. By the end of the scene, though, I didn't mind so much. It feels like it's too early, and it's clearly replacing something more relevant... but aside from that, it felt good to watch.

As for the meat of the episode:

Again, the "family theme" among friends is running strong. I really enjoy watching Clannad specifically for this. Kyou being hilarious here earned it bonus points. :)

I don't care for "forgotten childhood friend" plots. There's nothing wrong with them, but I don't care for them in general (I make a special exception for Kanon because of its thoughtful, caring touches to the story making it more palatable--we'll see if Clannad can do the same). Even if the plot of Kotomi's arc does nothing for me (yet?), I am moved by it because of Kotomi's character.

Even beyond being attached to the character for being so moe and being so funny (I have a weakness to bad puns and gags in Japanese, so I find Kotomi hilarious--EXTREMELY so when she cracks up at her own jokes), she has a softness and sadness that makes her a very moving character.

Combine that with the masterful animation and voicing of her breakdown...

I know every one has been saying this, and I hate to rave like a fanboy (especially after I've raved over her voicing of Kotomi before), but I'm going to say it, too: Noto Mamiko's voicing in this scene was masterful. It was a rare occasion when I find a performance piercing in this way. Beyond the talent of the performance, the quality of Noto's voice itself here is clear. Her stuttering and, most of all, her scream... were haunting and beautiful. When the episode was over I retreated to a quieter area as soon as I found the chance and I watched this scene again. It stirred me just as it had the first time--perhaps more since I was better focused on what I was watching. What a gorgeous voice, and what a performance.

I really wish that I'd first watched it when I hadn't been so distracted. It deserved my full attention.

Also... I am ashamed to say that I did not understand Kotomi's gags here. Could some one explain the puns, or was it completely unintelligible? Maybe I was just too distracted when I watched it, but I didn't catch it. Fortunately, seeing Kotomi crack up at her own jokes was so heartwarming, adorable and hilarious it was still marvelous to watch. :)

The preview mentioned her studying abroad. I suppose this is how she'll be "gotten rid of" to make way for the rest of the story. It has to happen, I know, but I hate to see it. If this is how she'll end up leaving, I wish they hadn't mentioned it until we get to that part of the story. Assuming that this IS how the plot progresses (I'd love to be wrong), I'll say that, in my opinion, the preview shouldn't be used for hinting at future events, and not outright introducing things like this. Nonetheless, with the swift progress from TWH on the game translation, perhaps I won't have to wait long to see the Kotomi arc come to its proper fruition. :)

[Sorrow-K]

I agree with most that Fuko's cameo was jarring, and cheapened what has gone before. I'm not going to get all up in arms about it though, since it is only one brief scene in the larger picture (if it starts getting repetitive, though...) My biggest problem with the whole thing surrounding Fuko is that Tomoya and Nagisa forgot about her. The experiences that they had with her were immense, life-changing, arguably. I know it would have required a DEM for them to remember, but it's a DEM I would have been more than willing to swallow, since the three characters deserved little less than to be remembered by each other.

As for the rest of the ep, this is getting really intriguing. There's a lot of stuff in this and a lot of mystery surrounding Kotomi's character that's going to be interesting to find out. The execution is, as usual, impeccable, the visuals (particularly the choice of camera angles and segue) are amazing, etc, etc. Should be good.

I do have a complaint about a particularly plot development in this ep, though: did they really have to make it that Kotomi and Tomoya knew each other in the past? And that he forgot, only to remember again after having his memory jolted? Didn't we see enough of that in Kanon (eg Mai's arc). Sorry, but that's a cliche and, unless it's imperative to the plot, I'm going to be highly critical of that.

You know, I was prepared to dislike the Fuuko cameo based on what I had heard, but I actually ended up finding it quite funny, and actually laughed a fair bit at that point. Yet another interesting diverging point from how Kanon was done.Yes, I laughed too. Doesn't mean that I didn't think it was cheap.

Kaioshin_Sama: But the explanation isn't the important thing in Fuko's story. The whole crux of the story is the interactions between her and the various characters... the astral projection thing is little more than a plot device, and one that doesn't really deserve much time to explain because it barely makes a difference to the important stuff in that story. It's like Gatsby's fortune. One can assume he got it from bootlegging, but that was never mentioned in the book, because the explanation makes no difference to the story. He got it from some shady business and that's all we need to know, and he used it to get into high society, and that's its only role in the plot.

[holyman282]

Wow just watched ep 12.... The revelation we got about Kotomi's past was impeccably executed... The scene with a newspaper cut out floating into Tomoya's view and him seeing, "aircrash" and Ichinynose deceased was very nicely done..

Also it's good to see that Kotomi's supposed random babble from the previous ep about a rabbit, deer and tomoya wasn't random at all. The dark sillouhette of the butterfly, the rabbit on the couch then suddenly disappearing, the deer, just made this ep all the more enjoyable.. Really liked it, to think that Kotomi lives by herself, who'd guess.

On another note, the old man talking about the research of another world, makes me wonder if that other world is the one we get glimpses of here and then.

By the way, why the heck did Fuko show up? Isn't she in a coma? Did she come out of the coma? Did her condition get better so that she can astroproject herself again? Why does she still have the party hat and why is she still wearing the school uniform.... All these questions and more are running through my head and makes me wonder if she'll make appearances from now on.

[Skyfall]

I do have a complaint about a particularly plot development in this ep, though: did they really have to make it that Kotomi and Tomoya knew each other in the past? And that he forgot, only to remember again after having his memory jolted? Didn't we see enough of that in Kanon (eg Mai's arc). Sorry, but that's a cliche and, unless it's imperative to the plot, I'm going to be highly critical of that.


Well, i guess that depends for how long the two knew each other in the past. We also know that Tomoya's mother died sometime ago, so depending how much of a mental blow he took at the time it is not entirely unimaginable. If it will be simply "oops, i forgot" ... well, i am not going to be very pleased either.

If i am going to harp at something in this ep, it would be the completely unnecessary and "cheap" Fuko appearance. It detracts from her arc and sort of cheapens it. (besides i was bored to tears during Fuko arc, so i was hoping never to see her again ...)

Now that Kotomi's past has been revealed i wonder what is going to happen next. The "other world" that Kotomi's parents studied ... i wonder if that is going to have some significance. Next episode should be an interesting one .. too bad we have to wait for it till the next year :upset:

[Leo_Otaku]

I still think it is rather cliched for him to forget ever meeting kotomi - especially when witnessing such a hugh event in his life. Anime male amnesias are the worse type quite frankly XD (and funny how most often than not, it is the females that remember first or never forget).
This is a significant event in his life and I just find it farfetched that he could forget it completely until now (it's not everyday you see a burning blaze).

Actually there is a guy in my university class who does not remember barely anything. He only remembers a few things He has no memory from his childhood junior high or high school. As well he can only remember things in black and white. I swear to god he is a clone or something >.>

[KaneDragon]

Actually there is a guy in my university class who does not remember barely anything. He only remembers a few things He has no memory from his childhood junior high or high school. As well he can only remember things in black and white. I swear to god he is a clone or something >.>

Well, childhood can be pretty dull anyway. I don't remember much, either, especially people. One would expect something like a big fire to stick in your head, though...

[holyman282]

I still think it is rather cliched for him to forget ever meeting kotomi - especially when witnessing such a hugh event in his life. Anime male amnesias are the worse type quite frankly XD (and funny how most often than not, it is the females that remember first or never forget).
This is a significant event in his life and I just find it farfetched that he could forget it completely until now (it's not everyday you see a burning blaze).

It's more a realistic depiction of what happens in real life. Offcourse sadly real life does become cliche to us simply because we're living it..:eyebrow:

I'm sure most people don't remember much from their childhood, much less people with whom you haven't interacted with since childhood. A child's brain is still developing so it's only natural that most people won't have a photographic picture of their childhood.

[orion]

Besides it's a protective mechanism to forget what hurts you. It's not the first time that Key has used it so I don't see it as a problem.

If it's something that doesn't directly affect you, it gets forgotten too. So again, I don't see it as a problem.

Anyway, Fuko cameo ftw!!!!! :heh:

Who actually has more fans Fuko or Kotomi?

[Woodchips]

Okay, I just finished watching episode 12 by S-S & E (It was worth the wait!).

There are a number of things I found interesting about this episode, and some areas where I may disagree with others.

Opening scene: It is nice to see Kotomi coming out of her shell bit-by-bit around others. Her interaction with the violin owner (can't remember her name) was much less jilted than a few episodes back -- though still slightly strange, as pointed out by Tomoya. Why is this important? Answer: I absolutely hated Kotomi's character initially. I love characters with depth, so seeing Kotomi progress from being a bit of a moe blob to a now two-dimensional character is a nice change.

Many kudos also to KyotoAni for their fantastic choice of having a silent tears fall down Kotomi's face without making the entire scene melodramatic -- it was rather stunning in its simplicity.

Main story: Fast-forward to Kyou blowing her lid at Kotomi's lack of comedic timing and delivery. As expected of the group's wild-child; Kyou is expectedly and hilariously harsh, and it is still fun to see how different Tomoya and Kyou are from the rest of the rag-tag group. They really are like two peas in a pod. I gained quite a bit of enjoyment out of Hirohiyashi Ryou's (Kyou's seiyuu) tears of frustration when Kotomi attempts to present some 'modern humour' to the group.

We then skip to the 'group date' which sees Tomoya surrounded by four girls. I only see it as 'harem-y' by loose definition, as we are only really aware (at this stage at least) of two of the four characters (Nagisa and Ryou) having romantic inclinations toward Tomoya. I also loved Kyou and Tomoya's bickering. They seem much more like siblings than friends. :)

The giant anteater makes its return! I have loved seeing the little kameos from the other series (Nayuki's kerropi, violin girl playing Canon in D minor, and now the giant anteater!). I probably shouldn't get as much enjoyment out of it, but hey, call it a guilty pleasure!

Fuko's appearance was very WTF!? and while it seems to fit with the feel of the series, it was perhaps a little too abrupt. I can see why people may have disliked it much more than I did -- with the emotional end of Fuko's arc it could seem a little jarring. Although it is good to finally see that KyotoAni/Key are getting the pacing a little more fluid. It was a nice reminder that the gang are still fighting their loss of memories -- That Fuko is not going to be ignored just because her arc has finished coughKanoncough.

Finishing up the day, we get the first few sniffs that all is not well with Kotomi -- a great way to build up to her emotional breakdown later on. The significance of the book will be interesting to discover -- notes on her parents work? A journal? Diary? Something else?

The scene with Ryou and the bus accident were a bit of a shock, and I admit to having some flashbacks of Akiko-san from Kanon. But this is obviously an event that hits a bit too close to home for Kotomi -- as she starts to unravell some more. Kyou proves a bit of a softy when it is revealed that Ryou is alive and well, which sends us in for a bit of an emotional roller-coster ride when Kotomi starts to break down. Once again KyotoAni shows its mastery in animating emotionally-powerful scenes, with the right mix of evocative animation, suitable music and a great job by Noto Mamiko. Now I am not usually a fan of this particular seiyuu, but she did a very nice job balancing between emotional but not becoming melodramatic. Many props.

In the aftermath we see the silhouette of a butterfly -- I am yet to work out its significance -- much like the sparkly blobs in the Fuko arc.

We are finally given a good look at the 'bad man', who never really gave off any really sinister vibes to me in the first place. My bets are that he was a part of the research team/company backing Kotomi's parents' research.

Flash-forward to Tomoya discovering Kotomi in her newspaper-clipping-adorned room. I must admit that the deer/rabbit thing is still rather vague to me (but maybe I am just slow ;) ) but maybe it will be explained further in the series. Was it supposed to represent previous decorations in the house, or does it have some other significance?

Overall: This episode was good -- better than the last -- but has yet to really get me like Kanon did (but perhaps that is to be expected considering Kanon was unlike anything I had ever seen before). There have been some good character development episodes, and while I am interested in Kotomi's arc -- I am still not enthralled. The lovely direction choices and a nice piece of acting by Noto Mamiko would probably make me rate this episode 8/10. The WTF-ness of the Fuko scene, and the rather confusing rabbit/deer/psuedo-amnesia thing would have to make me mark it down a bit.

Looks like we are getting much more focussed Tomoya and Kotomi interactions in the next episode -- which I must admit I am not wholly enthusiastic about. I love the ensemble cast and their individual reactions to one another, so it will be disappointing if next episode is a two-man show.

Regardless, CLANNAD is still one of the most interesting anime this season, perhaps matched only by Blue Drop ~ Tenshitachi no Gikyoku and ef ~ A Tale of Memories for drama.

[nadare]

I agree with holyman. I barely remember my classmates when I was still at kindergarten.

Sometimes it needs a series of events to refresh your memory from before. I don't find that Tomoya forgot about Kotomo unrealistic at all.

[Divini]

Besides it's a protective mechanism to forget what hurts you. It's not the first time that Key has used it so I don't see it as a problem.

If it's something that doesn't directly affect you, it gets forgotten too. So again, I don't see it as a problem.

The thing is both Tomoya and Kotomi are here, alive, and in the flesh. Also from the flashbacks he was apparently right smack in the middle of the whole ordeal, so there's no way he can forget it that easily. There hasn't been any clues that would be his "traumatic moment" in that event that would activate said protective mechanism, and that's the problem.

So if he just 'forgot', it would be a total cop-out.

[orion]

Well if you think of it as one of the many "traumatic" things that Tomoya had to go thru then it's easy to see that he has "forget" things to survive. He did say that he hated that town because of the memories in ep. 1. Fires can be considered traumatic but something else probably happened besides the fire in that flashback imo.

It also nicely fits with what Nagisa was saying in the movie promo about not forgeting.

It also probably means that Tomoya has bad coping skills imo.

[holyman282]

The thing is both Tomoya and Kotomi are here, alive, and in the flesh. Also from the flashbacks he was apparently right smack in the middle of the whole ordeal, so there's no way he can forget it that easily. There hasn't been any clues that would be his "traumatic moment" in that event that would activate said protective mechanism, and that's the problem.

So if he just 'forgot', it would be a total cop-out.

Yes I agree, if he simply "forgets" about the past, then i'd be pretty disappointed. Although I'm sure Kyoani aren't so superficial as to do that. We have seen with ep 11 when Kotomi said those random babble about rabbits and deers, that it had some meaning in this ep....

Reguarding how cliche the forgetting about you childhood plot, well true that it is cliche but not an unrealistic depiction. Sadly because we live in the real world:heh:, things depicted realistically would seem cliche. But hey I'd say it's not the plot device that matters it's how you use it:heh:.

[dgreater1]

The thing is both Tomoya and Kotomi are here, alive, and in the flesh. Also from the flashbacks he was apparently right smack in the middle of the whole ordeal, so there's no way he can forget it that easily. There hasn't been any clues that would be his "traumatic moment" in that event that would activate said protective mechanism, and that's the problem.

So if he just 'forgot', it would be a total cop-out.

The answer is,

I'm sure most people don't remember much from their childhood, much less people with whom you haven't interacted with since childhood. A child's brain is still developing so it's only natural that most people won't have a photographic picture of their childhood.

The answer is, he might have just forgotten or he might have forgotten because of an even more tragic incident (have you forgotten how he lost her mother?) It doesn't mean that he totally forgot about the incident with Kotomi, it just mean that the incident with Kotomi was set aside due to some other reason, and him, being just a kid back then will make him forget about it unless always reminded. We're talking about a memory when you were little, and you're forgetting that that you haven't added how they were separated during their childhood which will be a spoiler if I step any closer, so I'll let you speculate on that part as well :heh::heh:

Like I said, things are meant to be forgotten unless you've been reminded of it, whether it's an important incident or not. You have to remember that not every person has a good memory...

Now I'll ask a simple question again... do you think Kotomi have forgotten Tomoya?

If you answer yes, you're probably saying, yup she has forgotten Tomoya, not everything about him, but just his name and his appearance. It means she doesn't think about him from time to time enough to remember him for eternity. But she'll definitely remember the tragedy that befall her, and Tomoya has a part on it.

If you answer no, then you're probably thinking that Tomoya's existence equals her mother and her father which she definitely wouldn't forget.

Now let's ask the same thing, but this time it's about Tomoya...

Do I think Tomoya have forgotten Kotomi? Yes, and why did he forgot? Lots and lots of possibility, 1) He's a kid, 2) It's something he doesn't want to be reminded of 3) It happened long long ago. 4) An incident that shove aside the memories of what happened with Kotomi 5) He probably have only spent a little time with her 6) He probably doesn't think about Kotomi that much enough to remember her name (names from long ago are almost always bound to be forgotten if you don't always recite it in your head) 7) Probably because some dramatic change in his own life... 8) Etc. Etc. Etc...

See? It's wrong to think that only a traumatizing moment will trigger a complete memory loss of an important event, isnt it? And don't forget that he remembers the incident as if it was a dream but doesn't remember the people involved in that incident. He only got reminded that Kotomi was a big part of that incident. Have you ever encountered remembering something, but wondering if it really happened or just a dream? That's what Tomoya is experiencing right now, an unclear memory of what happened in his past and I don't think he totally forgot the fire incident (who would anyway?), what he forgot is Kotomi which is connected to the fire incident.

In a sentence that will make sense... What happened here is that, Tomoya forgot about Kotomi, but he doesn't know that Kotomi is the girl in that fire incident... What I'm trying to say is that, what he forgot is not the fire incident but the person in the fire incident. An incident is easy to remember but a person from the incident can easily be forgotten.

So in short, he just forgot (not the incident, but the person). Simple as that, I mean, would you remember a person's name and face from your childhood when you only spent some time with him/her? If you do, I applaud you for having a superb memory... I don't even remember my first crush... was it also a kid like me, or a grown up... hmmm... I think she was a grown up person... not sure though... Oh... I'm not talking about Sawatari Makoto LOL :heh::heh::heh:

Yes I agree, if he simply "forgets" about the past, then i'd be pretty disappointed.

Would you rather have them say, Tomoya had an amnesia that's why he forgot? lol :heh:

[C.A.]

I gave this episode a 9, not a 10 because I didn't laugh as much as the previous few.

I'm one who was glad to see Fuko around again, one of those guys who miss her.

As for why and how come Fuko can appear again, don't force me to go into explaining mode to reason the magic of anime. I had alot of cookies from that, but one bad cookie told me I should stop :heh:

[GyroidFanatic]

Who actually has more fans Fuko or Kotomi?

Keep in mind Fuko's #1 in Japan.

[Reckoner]

In other words, the only way to insert Fuuko into another character's route is to do something completely random with almost no purpose. Due to Fuuko's characteristics, it gives Kyoani more screwing around leeway because of the star/starfish and the astral projection sudden appearance (and it is quite clear when Kyoani decides to have fun with the animation during certain sequences, if it wasn't blatantly obvious enough). Incidentally, Fuuko is also personality consistent because of her more or less straightforward format.

I dislike random inserts, but if they are going to they still pulled it off amazingly terrible. Just "coincidentally" bumping into this annoying fruit tart on a day out...? This served no purpose... "oh I think I remember something, no not really." Care to explain? That's the type of meeting you forget about almost immediately in real life.


Well, random Fuuko inserts do exist in the game, but in this episode instance it was an insert. However, because it is completely random, the settings had the capacity to have Fuuko's presence and scenes.

It disrupts the flow in my opinion, I couldn't get the character out of my head until the bus incident. Negative effect in my opinion.

... looking at the topic review Kinny already directly stated it. However, since it is a random insert in the game, Kyoani probably believed they could run the random insert as soon as Fuuko's route concluded. This is interesting to the extent that some of Kyoani's inserts are indirectly faithful, meaning it's not exact, but the inclusion actually had either a certain plus (episode 10 had one) or a certain accuracy (that would be this random Fuuko insert).
.

Uh, so if it appears in the game then its ok? Sorry I won't buy that one. If the game does that, then I criticize the game as well.

[holyman282]

Would you rather have them say, Tomoya had an amnesia that's why he forgot? lol :heh:

Realistically, it could just be that he forgot. I even stated that myself that it's natural not to remember your childhood.

The thing is though, anime doesn't play on a realistic (hence random) basis. Unless it's slice of life, the writers and directors have a definitive plot and everything that happens along the way propels the story to that plot and it's ending. No matter how good a writer, a story will always have a air of it being constructed, because most authors place events and situation to propel the plot and not fit the overall plot to the event.

Also considering it's kyoani/key, I'd say simply not remembering is not their style anyway!:heh:

I dislike random inserts, but if they are going to they still pulled it off amazingly terrible. Just "coincidentally" bumping into this annoying fruit tart on a day out...? This served no purpose... "oh I think I remember something, no not really." Care to explain? That's the type of meeting you forget about almost immediately in real life.

Although I myself also found Fuko's appearance a bit too random, I'm beginning to like the unpredictability of that situation. Made me think "hah you never saw that coming did you?".

I've stated in my reply to dgreater1 that most novels/shows ect, no matter how well crafted will always have a air of the story being constructed. People praise how certain stories just flow, but not realise that in real life things don't just "flow". Even the best mimicry of the unpredictability of life have flaws simply because the story is made up.

For me, my first impression of seeing Fuko was, "wth? That just didn't flow", my second thought was then "wait what things in real life does?"

It disrupts the flow in my opinion, I couldn't get the character out of my head until the bus incident. Negative effect in my opinion.

Reguarding the flow of the story, check above. If you couldn't get the character out of your head then I'd say reguardless of whether you liked that scene or not, it certainly made an impression in you. If that's the case then I'm sure Kyoani has done their job well.

[Divini]

@dgreater1

That was a nice read and you make a lot of good points. Maybe I'm just used to Key's style of things... so far, the characters in their games have reasons for forgetting about major events. Even if its during childhood, having the reason being "it was a long time ago and I was young" does not cover the whole explanation.

Well we'll see in three weeks eh? :D

[Deathkillz]

It's more a realistic depiction of what happens in real life. Offcourse sadly real life does become cliche to us simply because we're living it..:eyebrow:

I'm sure most people don't remember much from their childhood, much less people with whom you haven't interacted with since childhood. A child's brain is still developing so it's only natural that most people won't have a photographic picture of their childhood.
Ahh good point ^^
Time wears memories away though it depends on the situation. I can still remember some of my friends from primary school though their personalities have become blurry. But life changing events are still hard to forget by me as surprisingly I can still remember how I nearly drowned when I was about 5 (not how I was saved but I can remember water surrounding me lol XD).

Sadly we hear the "defense mechanism" argument too many times as well...but really how many people go through that unless the are mentally unfit :rolleyes:

[Owaranai Destiny]

Sadly we hear the "defense mechanism" argument too many times as well...but really how many people go through that unless the are mentally unfit :rolleyes:

In accordance with the amount of doubt casted upon the scenarios in which Tomoya might have forgotten Kotomi, of course. :D

The problem is that we're seeing this as a third party, so it's a little hard for us to truly understand how the degree of "life-changing" for Tomoya and Kotomi might vary.

[KaneDragon]

We then skip to the 'group date' which sees Tomoya surrounded by four girls. I only see it as 'harem-y' by loose definition, as we are only really aware (at this stage at least) of two of the four characters (Nagisa and Ryou) having romantic inclinations toward Tomoya. I also loved Kyou and Tomoya's bickering. They seem much more like siblings than friends. :)

Oh come on, you don't think Kyou has a bigger crush on Tomoya than Ryou? :rolleyes:
And Kotomi wants Tomoya all to herself, so they can "read a book together". :D Have you forgotten their recent time together in the library? :(

Hence, harem. :cool:

[Bonta Kun]

Oh come on, you don't think Kyou has a bigger crush on Tomoya than Ryou? :rolleyes:
And Kotomi wants Tomoya all to herself, so they can "read a book together". :D Have you forgotten their recent time together in the library? :(

Hence, harem. :cool:

well too bad Tomoya, Kotomi is all mine! MINE I TELL YA!!!

noone can have her but me!!

altho saying that, all the girls are mine!!! anyone that wants to take em away from me will receive divine punishment in the form of a pair of Fat Bastard's wet Y-fronts smacked in ya face!

btw is there any significance behind the book Kotomi gives Tomoya? Theres something that just bugs me about it.

[kimchipride]

I thought this was a boring episode for some reason. The experience wasn't as great as the previous episodes. I've rewatched 11 so many countless times on the cute and funny parts. However, in this ep I haven't done that. There's something that bugged me in this episode and I'm trying to figure out what the hell it is.

Btw, I didn't really mind Fuko returning. It wasn't funny but i thought it was cool. She said, "If Tomoya needed help she'd return" I guess she'll return?

There was a lot of character development which is something I usually enjoy but when I see Kotomi acting like Keichi from Higurashi, I feel somewhat disturbed.

YAY because Clannad won't be airing the next two weeks, SS-E can finally sub the rest of Hayate no Gotoku!

[Reckoner]

Although I myself also found Fuko's appearance a bit too random, I'm beginning to like the unpredictability of that situation. Made me think "hah you never saw that coming did you?".

Its funny how this argument is being used when people started blowing their heads off about M;Y in the episode 11 thread about it being unpredictable. Anyways that doesn't matter.

I've stated in my reply to dgreater1 that most novels/shows ect, no matter how well crafted will always have a air of the story being constructed. People praise how certain stories just flow, but not realise that in real life things don't just "flow". Even the best mimicry of the unpredictability of life have flaws simply because the story is made up.

For me, my first impression of seeing Fuko was, "wth? That just didn't flow", my second thought was then "wait what things in real life does?"

Let me construct you a very fine story that occurs to so many pour old souls in this life. Kid is told about drugs in school and how they are bad for you. Kid is offered drugs, and instead of not trying them he does out of pure curiosity of why they are so bad for you. Kids get addicted and goes into denial that drugs are bad for you. Kids friends leave him and he tries to make friends with other druggies. Before you know it he comes poor white trash. MOST Things do follow linearly in life whether you realize it or not. There is a cause and a effect, or a series of compounding events that lead to something else. Germany didn't start World War II, have mister Adolf raise to power for randomness. A story that you cannot tell what's going to happen may be exciting, but those usually are the most unrealistic ones. We can tell how people are going to react to certain things in shows because its just a series of patterns that we can see in all people today.

Fuko's insert was random, and provided nothing. They might as well have pigeons crapping on Tomoya randomly in the show because that is random as well.


Reguarding the flow of the story, check above. If you couldn't get the character out of your head then I'd say reguardless of whether you liked that scene or not, it certainly made an impression in you. If that's the case then I'm sure Kyoani has done their job well.

You cannot be serious? By any means, making an impression on someone does not signify a job well done. Why the heck would I praise something that I hated? Ok congrats Kyoani you made me hate a character even more when you were trying to make this character likable.

[orion]

But what if Fuko's route isn't officially ended and the random insert is to keep her in the viewer's mind until it officially ends?

[Skyfall]

Whatever the intentions, it doesn't change the fact it is a poor insert though ;) It was completely random and broke the flow ... at least as far as i am concerned, it was not a welcomed one. If they wanted a Fuko "reminder" for whatever reason, there are ways to do that without it being borderline dumb. (Though i expect her story to be over and done with given they need to move on, so it makes it even worse).

[Proto]

Despite the insert being rather crude, I am all and totally in favor of it. Visual Novel adaptions need to learn from this example. The modularized approach they have all taken till now is getting old and rusty, a more natural and inter weaved approach is needed. Future characters taking part in the current arc is an important improvement KyoAni has done since Kanon and has done more profoundly in CLANNAD, but using past characters is another thing that was needed. So count me in the 'yay, applauses, and ovations' club.

You cannot be serious? By any means, making an impression on someone does not signify a job well done. Why the heck would I praise something that I hated? Ok congrats Kyoani you made me hate a character even more when you were trying to make this character likable.

i think what he means is that a truly bad shows is that which leaves you without any feeling, without any emotion at all. Even if a show leaves you with hate and disgust, it is leagues better than a show that leaves you empty and without anything.

[holyman282]

Its funny how this argument is being used when people started blowing their heads off about M;Y in the episode 11 thread about it being unpredictable. Anyways that doesn't matter.

I really don't understand but I personally liked ep 11.

Let me construct you a very fine story that occurs to so many pour old souls in this life. Kid is told about drugs in school and how they are bad for you. Kid is offered drugs, and instead of not trying them he does out of pure curiosity of why they are so bad for you. Kids get addicted and goes into denial that drugs are bad for you. Kids friends leave him and he tries to make friends with other druggies. Before you know it he comes poor white trash. MOST Things do follow linearly in life whether you realize it or not. There is a cause and a effect, or a series of compounding events that lead to something else. Germany didn't start World War II, have mister Adolf raise to power for randomness. A story that you cannot tell what's going to happen may be exciting, but those usually are the most unrealistic ones. We can tell how people are going to react to certain things in shows because its just a series of patterns that we can see in all people today.

True alot of the things in life can be pretty predictable. That most people and course of events follow a linear path. The only thing is that, sometimes unforseen circumstances can't be predicted in life and most people won't know what will happen to them 1 hour from now (if you say you know, that's just a very accurated guess, because you never know what events might randomly pop up).

As for the argument of cause and effect. Well true that things abide by that rule, but only if the two events are complimentary to each other. For example, you get hungry and hence you eat (that's cause and effect) but events like, you go out shopping and at the same time the president gets shot (that's not cause and effect). Fuko appearance was more like the second example and are exclusive of each other.

Do you see any connection, between Tomoya ang gang going out and randomly bumping into Fuko? No.

Fuko's insert was random, and provided nothing. They might as well have pigeons crapping on Tomoya randomly in the show because that is random as well.

I wouldn't say nothing, it provided a little humour, re-confirmed her existence and her existence in the minds of the others. Where as a pidgeon crapping on Tomoya would just be funny for maybe 2 seconds. Fuko's appearance achieved the same thing as I laughed quite a bit at her comments.

You cannot be serious? By any means, making an impression on someone does not signify a job well done. Why the heck would I praise something that I hated? Ok congrats Kyoani you made me hate a character even more when you were trying to make this character likable.

I don't see why it is that i'm not. Publicity comes in all forms and I've seen alot of controversial figures or events that get more airtime then let's say someone donating 1 million dollars to charity. Sadly that's how the world works.

Also I never said you had to say it was a job well done, just that it made a impression. Whether you liked it or not is up to you, but the very fact you're discussing that cameo of Fuko's means that you haven't forgotten it because it left an impression (you see cause and effect:heh:;)).


i think what he means is that a truly bad shows is that which leaves you without any feeling, without any emotion at all. Even if a show leaves you with hate and disgust, it is leagues better than a show that leaves you empty and without anything.

Nicely put!

[Eviltape]

This one is... okay. Plot development seemed to be great and not much else, but hey; nobody's perfect. Fuko coming out of nowhere made me lol. Hard.

[Woodchips]

Oh come on, you don't think Kyou has a bigger crush on Tomoya than Ryou? :rolleyes:
And Kotomi wants Tomoya all to herself, so they can "read a book together". :D Have you forgotten their recent time together in the library? :(

Hence, harem. :cool:

Honestly, I haven't seen much at all from Kyou to signify her interest in Tomoya romantically. At this stage they just seem to be really close friends. As incomprehensible as some people think it, it is occasionally possible to be just good friends with members of the opposite gender. ;)

Of course, I may have to eat my words later on once Kyou's arc fires up, but since I'm pretty sure I know where the romantic thread of this story is going to progress.

Kotomi is not the most sociable creature, and boderlines on the eccentric... I'm also not exactly sure that "reading a book together" signifies romantic inclinations. I think we need to see a bit more from them before we jump to conclusions.

Now, Kyou is my favourite character out of the girls thus far, so my observations don't really have much to do with supporting any other pairing. You can't accuse me of being one-eyed! :D

[Owaranai Destiny]

Honestly, I haven't seen much at all from Kyou to signify her interest in Tomoya romantically. At this stage they just seem to be really close friends. As incomprehensible as some people think it, it is occasionally possible to be just good friends with members of the opposite gender. ;)

Of course, I may have to eat my words later on once Kyou's arc fires up, but since I'm pretty sure I know where the romantic thread of this story is going to progress.

How about the bus-stop scene? ;) Sorry, couldn't help it, but perhaps that could purely be speculation, or a not-so-bad build up to Kyou's arc. Perhaps some viewers are inclined to think that she is 'merely' a good friend because of how she treats him especially when they are around people.

Kotomi is not the most sociable creature, and boderlines on the eccentric... I'm also not exactly sure that "reading a book together" signifies romantic inclinations. I think we need to see a bit more from them before we jump to conclusions.

Hmm...Could be interpreted as Kotomi-chan taking the baby steps to being a friend instead of an acquaintance as well. For all we know-Wait, we don't know what Kotomi's thinking, anyway. :heh: Moreover, it was on Tomoya's part that might lead us to think that her wanting to do something with him alone had any romantic connotations at all :heh:, unless someone comes up here to refute/support this.

[dgreater1]

Hmm...Could be interpreted as Kotomi-chan taking the baby steps to being a friend instead of an acquaintance as well. For all we know-Wait, we don't know what Kotomi's thinking, anyway. :heh: Moreover, it was on Tomoya's part that might lead us to think that her wanting to do something with him alone had any romantic connotations at all :heh:, unless someone comes up here to refute/support this.

I don't think and don't see Kotomi having any romantic connotations in the anime at all. Although, I remember that there should be at least one on episode 10 but it was removed. Just firing up your desire to find out what I mean :heh::heh::heh:

[skarudxo715]

Lol sure, Fuko's cameo out there was really unwanted.

Returning to the last reply I guess that Kotomi wanted Tomoya remember they have met.
I guess they used to read together when they met long time ago as kids.

Have you ever thought about Kotomi cooking so well???!~

Or am I wrong... Dunno!...

[Kang Seung Jae]

Have you ever thought about Kotomi cooking so well???!~

Let's see.... She shared her bento in that knee scene, baked a tasty apple pie during the weekend, and made a feast for the group.

Yes, I would say she is one of the best cooker in Clannad.

[USB500]

Wow. That's one sudden plot twist. Never expected Kotomi-chan to suddenly break down that easily. Damn, this has made me waiting for the next episode (and hopefully, it will answer what really happened to Kotomi-chan.) :sad: :sad:

Well, not until January can we get to watch the latest episode. :uhoh:

The only thing that I want to complain about this episode is the sudden appearance of Fuko. :heh: that's about it.

[Seraphis]

Fuko made this episode for me.

[Sinestra]

Finding out a little more about Kotomi's past was what i was waiting for. Seems like her parents have passed away. COuld this be the reason for her instability? Also its seems as if they died in some type of lab accident. Now im just pondering when and where Kotomi and Tomo met. Kotomi's gags had me saying WTF but i laughed anyway when she started to giggle but it sounded a little dirty just what the hell was she watching?

The scene after the bus crash had a huge impact on me. To see her crying and screming in fetal positon was something i had expected to see. It was quite painful to watch and i find myself getting even more drawn into her story than i did with Fuko's

Speaking of Fuko what a funny Cameo and of course she goes the starfish/star lol

10/10 (cant believe someone actually rated this episode a 1:twitch:)

[nikorai]

Hello.
I'm sorry i was very busy lately so I fell behind the schedule. For the last 2 days I managed to watch episodes 9 to 12.
Well it seems that if we simplify things a bit it looks like we have the main guy with amnesia and pretty much everyone else around here has their closets fully packed with skeletons.
However there are a lot details put into it that keep me stuck to the screen.
Btw, Kyou was pretty awesome in this episode.

[arkxkra]

Kotomi backgroud was so sad...
next year only new episode, is hard to wait...

[Reckoner]

i think what he means is that a truly bad shows is that which leaves you without any feeling, without any emotion at all. Even if a show leaves you with hate and disgust, it is leagues better than a show that leaves you empty and without anything.

So if something is done wrong and is more memorable because it is, it deserves praise? I understand what you're saying but I do not find that statement reasonable. I'll still watch the "good" memorable ones, not the bad.

I really don't understand but I personally liked ep 11.

I was just pointing it out because I found it funny, my statement held no significance :p

The only thing is that, sometimes unforseen circumstances can't be predicted in life and most people won't know what will happen to them 1 hour from now

Yes, that is true. But if you were to ask someone, they would not think anything really random or strange would happen. It would be expected to be nothing special.

Fuko appearance was more like the second example and are exclusive of each other.

Fair enough.

Do you see any connection, between Tomoya ang gang going out and randomly bumping into Fuko? No.

That is what is edging me a lot about this scene. This is a big coincidence! The scene is totally forced into the context of the episode. The fact that this part revealed nothing about whether Fuko is out of the hospital or anything, if she even remembers Tomoya anymore, is not revealed. What am I supposed to think if she shows up again? Oh wow that is funny, they keep bumping into each other? Honestly people whom I meet in life in a town I almost never meet again. Unless this town is actually small which I did not get that impression.



I wouldn't say nothing, it provided a little humour, re-confirmed her existence and her existence in the minds of the others. Where as a pidgeon crapping on Tomoya would just be funny for maybe 2 seconds. Fuko's appearance achieved the same thing as I laughed quite a bit at her comments.

Well while others found it funny, I actually did not, but I guess that is irrelevant. Ok it reconfirmed her existence, she's not dead, but is that her real body? Does she still remember everybody? If she did how would she make them remember everything? Would she have to make friends with them all over again? OK so now we are going to have another big coincidence meeting, and possibly without any merit as well. Honestly anyway I look at this, it's an awfully placed and forced scene.


Also I never said you had to say it was a job well done, just that it made a impression. Whether you liked it or not is up to you, but the very fact you're discussing that cameo of Fuko's means that you haven't forgotten it because it left an impression (you see cause and effect:heh:;)).


Ok you got me, now get me an ice pack :upset:

[IRJustman]

10/10 (cant believe someone actually rated this episode a 1:twitch:)

We ALL know who THAT is, don't we? ;) (Or at the very least, we have an idea who it is, anyway.)

--Ian.

[KholdStare]

I really did not like this episode. I lacks the comedy and also the drama, and Fuko appeared randomly which did not make sense to me at all. It seems like I'm just not interested in Kotomi's arc, even though I like her.

7/10

[maymay]

This was one of my favorite episodes so far, despite the random Fuko appearance( although it's good that she is still alive). Kotomi's outburst during the bus incident was both abrupt and heart wrenching. Waiting for the next episode is torturous... :P

[risingstar3110]

I give this episode an 9 because it's not a perfect, but great to enjoy.

Fuuko's appearance was quire a surprise, but i think if she do not appear or is talked about, then the audience will soon forget about her, and the division between chapter 8 and and the rest of the series become more clearly.

Other than that, the whole ep is good, gonna miss Clannad when waiting for Ep 13

PS: a bit out of topic, but the math problem Kotomi solved in the start of Ep likely to be an anti-differentiation one. Not going into too much detail through :D

Edit1: Kyou's speak/joke at the start (after OP) was great. I haven't seen a real Japanese gag before, but surely can get the idea.
Certainly we can't forget when Kyou trembling in tears also.....
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/risingstar3110/Untitled-2.gif

[bloodyknight]

Well, episode 12 is story telling simply said. Let us know more about Kotomi and why she is like this... *Hey, ain't calling her stupid no more... Learn my lesson...* I guess something happen to her parents... they are probably dead by now...

it appear that Tomoya already knew who she is but forget about her... how can that be?! Did he leave town like Sana Hidaka of Myself; Yourself did as well?! Well, her parents died probably in a car accident judging by how she reacted when she saw the wreckage... but then again, fire... fire always has to get involved...

[C.A.]

Honestly, I haven't seen much at all from Kyou to signify her interest in Tomoya romantically. At this stage they just seem to be really close friends. As incomprehensible as some people think it, it is occasionally possible to be just good friends with members of the opposite gender. ;)

Of course, I may have to eat my words later on once Kyou's arc fires up, but since I'm pretty sure I know where the romantic thread of this story is going to progress.In episode 11, when Kyou mentioned about how a girl can love someone so much she can't control herself, you should know that she's talking about herself. Like how she can't control herself from trying to get very close to a guy her sister likes. She stopped Tomoya from going with the girls to help Kotomi in her practice, so she could be alone with him.

She has been trying to be alone with Tomoya and even asked him out for dates.

On the other hand, she has not helped Ryou get closer to Tomoya. She didn't let Ryou have a chance to be alone with him as well, even if its just Tomoya using her for his tricks. She just has to pop up on every occasion where Ryou is around Tomoya.

[The Chaos]

Very Good Ep ......The Good Part Fu-Chan Is Back .....
I'm So Happy To See Her Again....
But Poor Kotomi I wonder What Happened in Her Past..

[risingstar3110]

In episode 11, when Kyou mentioned about how a girl can love someone so much she can't control herself, you should know that she's talking about herself. Like how she can't control herself from trying to get very close to a guy her sister likes. She stopped Tomoya from going with the girls to help Kotomi in her practice, so she could be alone with him.

She has been trying to be alone with Tomoya and even asked him out for dates.

On the other hand, she has not helped Ryou get closer to Tomoya. She didn't let Ryou have a chance to be alone with him as well, even if its just Tomoya using her for his tricks. She just has to pop up on every occasion where Ryou is around Tomoya.
In this case i have to disagree with your view.
But certainly since its your own opinion , i am not gonna argue in favour to change it. I will just state my own (don't want escalae the discussion too much ^^)
. Also, I don't know how far we can discuss out of topic in this thread so i will make it short.

To me, what Kyou consciously think and unconsciously doing are not matched, just like how you forbid yourself from buying more clothes, but just can't stop walking pass by cloth's window shops for some other reasons.

When you think about it, she did a great job when lying to herself or put up jokes to change the topics. Many good examples can find in Ep 11 and 12, during conversation between her and Tomoya

[Owaranai Destiny]

To me, what Kyou consciously think and unconsciously doing are not matched, just like how you forbid yourself from buying more clothes, but just can't stop yourself to walk pass by clothe's window shops for some other reasons.


There are certain things you cannot control. ;)

[LolitaDecay]

The scene when Kotomi breaks down was heart wrenching.
Great great episode.
I'm really enjoying this arc.

[Kanzaki Urumi]

No wonder kotomi reacts to Tomoya's "Kotomi-chan", guess they are pretty close when they were kids, at least. There certainly possiblities that Kotomi recognizes Tomoya as her childhood friend but just keeps quiet about it.

[FCS-31]

The title of episode 14 comes out

"theory of everything"

It is English,not Japanese
And this is.....TOE....the most important background music of kotomi arc.
and episode 14 will be the final of kotomi arc

[Kang Seung Jae]

The title of episode 14 comes out

"theory of everything"

It is English,not Japanese
And this is.....TOE....the most important background music of kotomi arc.
and episode 14 will be the final of kotomi arc

Just as I expected.


Now, the question: How far will Tomoya go?

[Owaranai Destiny]

Just as I expected.


Now, the question: How far will Tomoya go?

...There has to be a spoiler if I ask "What do you mean", I presume. Not unless I've played the game, that is.:eyespin:

[Woodchips]

In episode 11, when Kyou mentioned about how a girl can love someone so much she can't control herself, you should know that she's talking about herself. Like how she can't control herself from trying to get very close to a guy her sister likes. She stopped Tomoya from going with the girls to help Kotomi in her practice, so she could be alone with him.


If you're talking about showing interest in someone, that has to be a pretty vague way to show it. If anyone wants to see my theories on the bus stop scene please click the spoiler button below...
I personally feel that she was talking about Ryou, although that is merely speculation. Kyou obviously loves her sister and wants the best for her, I think Kyou is just testing the waters.

As for her stopping Tomoya from joining Kotomi, Ryou and Nagisa for violin practice, I have a few theories:
1. As a good friend she wanted to save him from the horror of Kotomi's playing.
2. She really did want to allow Kotomi to mingle more with Nagisa and Ryou without Tomoya always being there.
3. She did want to be alone with him. Although I find this less likely as a sole motivation.
4. All of the above.

Now, that's not to say that there isn't any potential for things to change, or progress, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I just haven't really seen anything much yet to support Kyou's interest in Tomoya at this stage.

[gosuken]

I think it is pretty obvious that Kyou has feeling for Tomoya and just forbids herself from fully revealing her feeling because of her sisters feeling.

As for Tomoya and Kotomi I really would like to know how far Tomoya intends to take this. Its very obvious that there is the possibility that Kotomi can become a major play in who gets Tomoya in the end ^_^

Well so far this series just keeps getting better. I just hope it continues in this great direction. ^_^

[Sinestra]

As for Tomoya and Kotomi I really would like to know how far Tomoya intends to take this. Its very obvious that there is the possibility that Kotomi can become a major play in who gets Tomoya in the end ^_^

^_^

IMO if your name is not Nagisa then there is no chance of getting with Tomo.

[KaneDragon]

As for Tomoya and Kotomi I really would like to know how far Tomoya intends to take this. Its very obvious that there is the possibility that Kotomi can become a major play in who gets Tomoya in the end ^_^

Not unless the ED changes to a Kotomi concerto, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. :p

[Zigheart]

can't wait for ep.13

[Eisdrache]

Tomoya is annoying me more and more -.- The scenes where he was shouting at the man just made my dislike even stronger. He is the type who is sociable with his friends but without them he is just behaving like a fag. I just cant stand people like him.

Take this as my personal impression you dont have to share.

[Skullator]

Whens episode 13 due to air?

Was there some delay due to xmas?

[tripperazn]

Tomoya is annoying me more and more -.- The scenes where he was shouting at the man just made my dislike even stronger. He is the type who is sociable with his friends but without them he is just behaving like a fag. I just cant stand people like him.

Take this as my personal impression you dont have to share.

What would you do to a creepy old guy who was stalking one of your female friends. Your friend clearly knows and dislikes him. I'd say Tomoya was being fairly reasonable, I would have just decked him and asked questions later. It might not seem that way to you, but in Tomoya's POV stalking is exactly what is going on.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

nice episode, cant wait for 13. Feel sad for Kotomi. Her room reminds me of that movie I forget the name of where the guy had entire walls covered in photo's. Interesting past they may have had.

[IRJustman]

Whens episode 13 due to air?

Was there some delay due to xmas?

January 10, 2008 in the mid-to-late morning hours by US reckoning.

--Ian.

[Skullator]

January 10, 2008 in the mid-to-late morning hours by US reckoning.

--Ian.

Thanks much ^^

[GreatTeacherKen]

@ Mr. Hat and Clogs

is that movie One Hour photo?

But back on topic, I really liked how the end scene was done. Very eerie in a way.

[todkapuz]

not a whole lot of constructive things I can add... so just my take...

All I can say is KOTOMI-CHAN~~~~~~~~~~~`` .... I'm feeling uneasy that soon my Kotomi-chan loving days are quickly approaching a hard end... but thats okay.... she's getting glorious light right now... gotta take what we can get....

All in all another good episode with Kotomi... starting to really see her true self and learn about her past (well somewhat) ...

I don't know... I didn't find the use of Fuko in this episode as all that good of an idea.. yes we aer all sad that she has gone back to her hospital bed... yes we all want her to get better... there is no fooling us with your party hat... hmm.. i dunno... but if there is hope for fuko, MAYBE there is hope for Kotomi showing up in later arcs?

I dont know... 24 or even 26 seems toooooo short for so much more depth left in these char ... especally if they do the end story... Air was 13, Kanon was 24 .... hmm... maybe we can hope for 36-ish??!?!? yeah right.. but I can hope :) still 3 more Key peices to do after this... :)

Can't wait for the next episode.

[GreatTeacherKen]

Maybe they can do the After story as an OVA or a TV special kind of like what KyoAni did with Air in Summer.

[Eisdrache]

What would you do to a creepy old guy who was stalking one of your female friends. Your friend clearly knows and dislikes him. I'd say Tomoya was being fairly reasonable, I would have just decked him and asked questions later. It might not seem that way to you, but in Tomoya's POV stalking is exactly what is going on.

Kotomi always had some difficulties with social contacts and has a kind of wierd behaviour. From an objective point of view she could act the way she did against anyone who comes a bit close to her on the street. Also we have never seen why she dislikes the old man, just running away and Nagisa/Ryou shouting ~Tomoya-kun.

Additionally thats not the only reason I dont like Tomoya. Its the overall impression the series gave me after 12 episodes and I like him less from episode to episode.

[IRJustman]

Also we have never seen why she dislikes the old man, just running away and Nagisa/Ryou shouting ~Tomoya-kun.

Actually, it's been more or less heavily hinted at in episode 12 if you discern what he's saying VERY carefully and given what you see at the foot of the episode notably when Tomoya meets up with Kotomi in her room with all the clippings all over the place.
Additionally thats not the only reason I dont like Tomoya. Its the overall impression the series gave me after 12 episodes and I like him less from episode to episode.

Since I believe Tomoya is a very important part of the story and if you feel that strongly about him, you may wish to consider watching something else that catches your interest.

--Ian.

[Leo_Otaku]

Well, childhood can be pretty dull anyway. I don't remember much, either, especially people. One would expect something like a big fire to stick in your head, though...

no like seriously he remembers nothing. I have memories of many things good and bad. He has nothing, to the point of not normal. He has no memory of junior high or high school. It is seriously messed up.... to which I believe he is a clone >.>

Any which way... I'm so bored without my weekly clannad fix >.> one week at school without it will make me so depressed.
So after komoti's arc I think maybe a Tomoyo, Yukine, Kyou/Ryou mix might happen.

[Rocksmash]

Great episode. It leaves me wanting for more. Now i can't wait for the next episode.

/off topic
@Mr. Hat and Clogs & GreatTeacherKen
That room reminds me more of the movie A Beautiful Mind. Hopefully she's doesn't have hallucinations or delusional. :D

[dgreater1]

no like seriously he remembers nothing. I have memories of many things good and bad. He has nothing, to the point of not normal. He has no memory of junior high or high school. It is seriously messed up.... to which I believe he is a clone >.>

Blah! Me bad! I didn't know that's a reply from a post 4 pages ago! LoL XD

He has amnesia! Perhaps he hit his head (voluntarily?) somewhere that's why forgot his sad life LoL

[Mirrinus]

Maybe the plot device of forgetting childhood friends is so believable to me because I'm so incredibly forgetful myself, a fact that I'm rather ashamed of. I visited my old high school last week, and there were actually people I had known for years that I struggled to remember, some of which I had seriously forgetten the names of. If just two years can already do that to me...

[dgreater1]

Maybe the plot device of forgetting childhood friends is so believable to me because I'm so incredibly forgetful myself, a fact that I'm rather ashamed of. I visited my old high school last week, and there were actually people I had known for years that I struggled to remember, some of which I had seriously forgetten the names of. If just two years can already do that to me...

Lol, you made me remember this year's christmas again... some mother side relatives went to greet us and I was like... :confused: when they greeted me by my name... I mean, I don't remember their names, their faces, even the last time I saw them. They were talking about how they used to come to our house but still... I couldn't remember what they were talking about :( Makes me feel like an idiot and rude because I don't remember anything... I probably think work stress is the source here, or maybe, I just have a forgetful nature just like you... :heh:

[Owaranai Destiny]

Kotomi always had some difficulties with social contacts and has a kind of wierd behaviour. From an objective point of view she could act the way she did against anyone who comes a bit close to her on the street. Also we have never seen why she dislikes the old man, just running away and Nagisa/Ryou shouting ~Tomoya-kun.

I don't recall her calling people she meet the first time to be 'a bad person'. Only when they spoke or reacted in some way did Kotomi ask whether they were bullies or not. Try not to use 'objective' here, because it isn't appropriate.

I thought we were past the 'memory gap' argument already. :heh:

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Heh, I'm terrible with remembering names, takes me like a couple months to remember the names of the people I work with, and keep them attached to the right face. Anyways, the plot device of forgetting the past is fine, it'll prolly be explained.

[GyroidFanatic]

Maybe they can do the After story as an OVA or a TV special kind of like what KyoAni did with Air in Summer.
After Story is too important (and long) for that

[Sheba]

I can't even remember who were my classmates or kindergarten buddies; excepted the very important ones, those I still keep in touch with. So, Tomoya not remembering Kotomi is not so convenient as a couple of people claim it to be. And I remember Tomoya talking about how much he wanted to forget about some memories in the prologue of the first episode.

[mist2123]

Mods can u change my vote to 10/10. I when i pressed vote now i pressed 1/10 and vote now(i click really really fast).

[Hao]

It's strange because he seems to remember how Kotomi's house use to be like with a couple glances even though it looked wrecked and terrible, and yet he doesn't remember his past with Kotomi after so many meetings.
But then again I'm not complaining. If this is to help create a better plot, then I'll go along with anything.
Great episode btw 10/10 from me :D

[HayashiTakara]

I'm suffering from serious withdraw without my kotome fix... >_>

[Leo_Otaku]

I'm just suffering from clannad anime withdraw. I should have played more of the game since i had time with school holidays. I decided to check out some of the other game to anime conversions.

[Eisdrache]

Since I believe Tomoya is a very important part of the story and if you feel that strongly about him, you may wish to consider watching something else that catches your interest.

--Ian.

Ah, dont get me wrong here. I really like this series and one character I dislike doesnt mean I cant like the others ;) Other than that he has some good moments too. Its not that I would kill him on sight, I just like the other characters more.

This is a matter of personal preference and I am sure that there are also people who have him as their favourite person in Clannad.

[Rookie103]

Perfect 10. Can't wait for the new episodes.

[yukishiro honoka]

I am so shock and wanna cry when Kotomi screamed and said ,"i will be a good girl"!!!!!
Although i don't know what was happened to Kotomi,I am still painful and sorry for her!!!!!!!!!!

[boggart]

Fuko's appearance makes my day a whole lot better! 9/10 for me.

[konstargirl]

I am so shock and wanna cry when Kotomi screamed and said ,"i will be a good girl"!!!!!
Although i don't know what was happened to Kotomi,I am still painful and sorry for her!!!!!!!!!!

I know right. She had a really bad life when her parents left her and never came back. :( Thats why I rated it 10/10. ^^