[manga] Priscilla-Isley Relationship Discussion

[NoSanninWa]

Isley of the North and Priscilla are two characters whose relationship is crucial to determining the future of the Claymore world. Everything that is happening now was put in motion by Isley for Priscilla's benefit.

At first we are told that Priscilla was beaten by Isley, but he took her as his woman. Then we're told that Priscilla in fact beat Isley, but he decided to serve her rather than die. What exactly is their relationship? Are they lovers or mistress and servant? Perhaps Isley worships her or maybe he is just her keeper since she's so hapless...

Entwined with their strange relationship is their unique personalities. Priscilla seems like a clueless innocent most of the time, yet we know she's as cold blooded a killer as any other Awakened One. Isley also seems rather debonair and cultured, but he doesn't hesitate to send his minions into certain death without hesitation. Like the other Abyssals, these two seem to be a mix of human and monster different from normal Awakened Ones.

Please don't bring up the anime in this thread, since it contradicts the manga with regard to this relationship.

[chibamonster]

When Priscilla took off half of Isley's body during their first fight Isley was certainly shocked by her power, but you'll notice that even with half an upper body he moved in to cut Priscilla apart when she changed form back to human. But he stops. He was definitely outclassed power wise, but Priscilla didn't have the resolve to kill Isley or Rigald. As seen with Teresa and Irene, being fit for battle is critical for survival even when you are powerful. Isley admits defeat, even though he could have fought on because he realizes something.

Everything Isley does to take power over the continent could have been done without Priscilla except one thing; surviving the counter attack from the Riful when he challenged Luciella. Isley doesn't even use Priscilla in combat. He doesn't have to in order to achieve his goals. Even with Alicia completed he now has 2 individual targets that will not join forces. Priscilla is Isley's insurance policy. Her power alone is enough of a bargaining chip to keep him alive without forcing her to use that power.

Personally I think Isley is partially bluffing with Priscilla as we haven't seen her do anything but defend herself since awakening. Except eat, but unlike Agatha she doesn't seem to be thinking much past her empty stomach. Isley just needs to smile and keep her happy. I wonder if Priscilla even understood that he was the one who ordered the Claymores exterminated when she was crying in the snow. Really Raki is a godsend for Isley. Raki will keep Priscilla pacified and might even be a useful in controlling Priscilla in the future. If Isley told Priscilla that someone took her Raki from her Priscilla might show her will to fight.

This is just me, but I don't think Isley has deep romantic feelings for Priscilla. Isley is cunning. He probably loves the power she has and how easy she is to control. Isley sent his men to die and shrugged it off saying, "I never played well with others." Riful was correct when she said Isley was not as kind hearted as her. But Isley's words and actions seem so noble and refined. I don't think Isley is blood thirsty as much as he is indifferent to those around him.

Riful recognizes Isley and Priscilla as the most powerful force in the claymore world who could take over everything whenever they want. Riful still has a trick up her sleeve, but as it stands Isley has gained everything and has no one to stop him. But why haven't they moved out yet? Riful knows they could take over at any time and over run all their opposition. Isley must be planning something. That or he is just waiting to see how the other forces move to chart his next strike. Maybe he was just bored? Or he has been working his connections with Raki and Priscilla to make them usable in the future.

[kuru moon]

I think they can’t develop any love interest because Priscilla seems to know just eat and sleep. :heh:

I also don't think that they will start to conquer the land since both Pris and Isley never show any interests in doing so, or else they should do it long time ago. (Isley himself could did it when he was awaken. At that time Luciera was still a particle. So, balance of triangle power were not exist.)

They just want to assure their safety, no grudge against organisation or people. So, I believe an amnesia mistress with her powerful knight and a male pet just go travel to see the world right now. The only key role for them are the target man for Riful and Clare.

[Anima]

Riful recognizes Isley and Priscilla as the most powerful force in the claymore world who could take over everything whenever they want. Riful still has a trick up her sleeve, but as it stands Isley has gained everything and has no one to stop him. But why haven't they moved out yet? Riful knows they could take over at any time and over run all their opposition. Isley must be planning something. That or he is just waiting to see how the other forces move to chart his next strike. Maybe he was just bored? Or he has been working his connections with Raki and Priscilla to make them usable in the future.
It seems to me that Isley is really planning something but might actually be stuck in the south since he promised Priscilla he would look for her family there. What excuse would he use to leave the south for territories conquest?

To me, Priscilla is the most stupid AB ever existed. She is still looking for her parents. It seems that when she awakened she lost track of events and got confused all over. Reminds me of what Riful said, if a claymore awaken and still has her consciousness, she is no different from a regular claymore (except for eating humans that is, which is a major difference IMO) and it seems Priscilla is stuck between being human and AB which makes her very unstable.

Although Isley is using her quiet well, I think he is playing a very dangerous game. Anyone could play the "I will find your parents" game and things could go ugly.

[Shiryuu]

I really doubt Isley is planning anything. If he did, they would've done it during the 7 years. He doesn't seem to care about territories from what I can tell in ES3. The organization probably knows he's not gonna do anything, so they removed Alicia and Beth from active duty right after the war.

As for Priscilla, I don't think she's totally clueless either. She was with Isley when Riful came to challenge him. If it was by chance that Priscilla went to him, then Raki would've been there as well.

Not totally sure if they're a couple or whatever. Leaning towards it though using the reasons I've mentioned above.

[Anima]

I really doubt Isley is planning anything. If he did, they would've done it during the 7 years. He doesn't seem to care about territories from what I can tell in ES3. The organization probably knows he's not gonna do anything, so they removed Alicia and Beth from active duty right after the war.
You have a point here but does here really intend to live in the south without doing anything? I mean will Priscilla accept just living in the south? True she has lived 7 years now without doing anything but that doesn't really make them any important given the current events until the encounter between Priscilla and Clare.

As for Priscilla, I don't think she's totally clueless either. She was with Isley when Riful came to challenge him. If it was by chance that Priscilla went to him, then Raki would've been there as well.
We know that from time to time Priscilla roams on her own without Raki. She might have gone to eat and sensed the fight between Isley and Lucillia. Sensing Isley's yoma she went there. I am not saying that Priscilla is not being used cleverly by Isley or that she doesn't love/like or whatever bound she has with Isley. I am saying that he is playing a dangerous game with an unstable, very powerful being.

[evil_kenshin]

well we've never seen any "romantic" links between Isley & Priscilla , and so i assume his only using her

for a start, several times now when things go to plan he has this sorta smug smile on his face (shown it when boasting to Riful that now Lucellia is dead no one can beat him , and also after he swore his alliance to Priscilla) this doesn't seem like he loves her, rather his just found a new tool to use ; his trump card

But Isley has got himself in a tight spot, after 7 years of roaming around the south even Priscilla is going to start asking questions on where her family is. Raki will be able to keep her sane and not attack Raki, but on the other hand Isley himself is another story if she finds out his lying (even worse : finds out her parents are dead)


But its far from romantic in any case; his just using her in a way (though its possible he cares for her in some sort of way , just not necessary as a lover)

[Valduran]

As for Priscilla, I don't think she's totally clueless either. She was with Isley when Riful came to challenge him. If it was by chance that Priscilla went to him, then Raki would've been there as well.


We don't even know for sure that Raki is/was still with them do we? :o

[evil_kenshin]

We don't even know for sure that Raki is/was still with them do we? :o

I'd see no reason why he wouldn't be + i doubt Priscilla would separate from him (and where Priscilla goes Isley is forced to go weather he likes it or not)

[Anima]

well we've never seen any "romantic" links between Isley & Priscilla , and so i assume his only using her
I think it's obvious that there is no romantic relationship between them. Isley is acting as a guardian for her and she is showing intimacy towards Raki (sleeping with him in her arms and clinging to him).

[Siegzon Caritas]

. . . she is showing intimacy towards Raki (sleeping with him in her arms and clinging to him).

Yeah, 7 YEARS of clinging and cuddling. It sounds more like an engagement to me. Has Raki forgotten about Clare? Does he talk about Clare to Isley and Priscilla? Is it safe to bring the topic of Claymores up around Priscilla?

[evil_kenshin]

Yeah, 7 YEARS of clinging and cuddling. It sounds more like an engagement to me. Has Raki forgotten about Clare? Does he talk about Clare to Isley and Priscilla? Is it safe to bring the topic of Claymores up around Priscilla?

i'm sure he must of talked afterall his very purpose for training under Isley was to get strong to help Clare, surely Isley must of asked him why he wants to train

Besides from what were seen its been mostly one sided relationship with Raki & Priscilla , he goes to sleep on his own and somehow she ends up in the bed without him knowing

though at the same time he hasn't really refused and would actually make sense as a pairing lol (despite Clare will get pissed at them for it)

He wouldn't of forgotten Clare, But Isley may of changed Raki's view about things (and his had 7 years to do it) & its in Isleys best interest to make sure Raki stays with Priscilla so he would of pulled some stunt to make sure this happened

[Anima]

Yeah, 7 YEARS of clinging and cuddling. It sounds more like an engagement to me. Has Raki forgotten about Clare? Does he talk about Clare to Isley and Priscilla? Is it safe to bring the topic of Claymores up around Priscilla?
Interesting point. Didn't he ever talk about Clare? 7 Years of silence? It's kinda weird. But he did remember Clare the first time when he woke up and found Priscilla hugging him.

[Droplet]

Who knows? The 7 years of clinging and cuddling may be a part of Raki's special training. As for the PxI relationship, so far, it's not being stressed. But if you were Isley, what won't you do with a cute girl following you around?

[Zu Ra]

Even before going into dynamics of Isley Priscilla relationship lets study the two characters in question individually .

Isley : as NSW said Debonair I would like to add suave sophisticated and debonair . But Isley is pompous at times full of himself a case of Prince Complex . Cold calculating and treats subordinated pawns in game of chess .Buys loyalties with respect rather than fear intimidation or force . Has a certain mysterious air about him .

Priscilla : Jaded child thrust into the cruel world of adults / Cold Blooded Killer with insanity as her guiding force . Priscilla’s personalities don’t conflict but two personalities are very different . But both are extremes the personalities loss of dead one and being forced to grow up fast was the result. Both personalities are yearning for love .

Do I think Isley and Priscilla are in a relationship ? I think yes. Is this relationship built on mutual co dependence ? yes

Isley has an eye for talent he is always in search for troops . But he has that Prince Complex which makes him think he is the strongest . This myth was broken by Priscilla , which drew isley attention which eventually turned into fascination maybe love ? . To Isley Priscilla is an enigma , I think this led them to be together the reason being the only person to defeat Isley being his better half . More than ego it suites logistics very well Isley has grown even more powerful than he already was . Its suites Priscilla very well as both personalities are chaotic she needs calm . That calm and security more importantly love is provided by Isley

Together they make a power couple . Before the final confrontation between PriscillaXClare , Clare will have to go through Isley .

[Higasino Isley]

First of all,thank you,Chibamonster-san for the very interesting writing !

I agree with you,that kitano no Isley didn't kill her because of he knew how powerful person is Priscilla.In all probability he asked a question himself:what am I supposed to do?He decided fastly of course,and didn't take the oppurtinity when Priscilla-chan returned to her child-form,and was vulnerable very much.
Well,the alliance came into existence between them.
I understand,it is a very useful league for kita no Isley and i know,that is already not a good reason for a love,but!
If you come to think of it they are together for 14 years(Teresa+7,War of North+7).As for me,they had a plenty of time,that is formed a mutual love/affection.
Yeah,the time is not enough,and kuru moon said:"because Priscilla seems to know just eat and sleep",but I can hardly imagine kita no Isley without Priscilla-chan.(and reversely)

[lsley]

Before the final confrontation between PriscillaXClare , Clare will have to go through Isley .

hm, i think this is a dream, created by the anime... no matter what clare does she is no match for even one of them, or do you have some information i don't have :confused:

[Zu Ra]

hm, i think this is a dream, created by the anime... no matter what clare does she is no match for even one of them, or do you have some information i don't have :confused:

Why are you new to shonen manga ?

Claymore is going to end with a Battle Royale between PriscillaXClare . And Clare is powering up consistently, eventually she will reach Priscilla level .If the manga ka Norihiro Yagi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norihiro_Yagi) decides Priscilla is not the final Antagonist , Isley is then things may go in a different direction regarding Clare's fight with Isley

[chibamonster]

Higashino Isley, I agree that Priscilla and Isley are very inseparable now. Along with Raki their relationship is too good to just stop any time soon.

From Priscilla's point of view I think she sees Isley almost like a big brother. She seemed fairly concerned about him during his fight with Luciella. I think she was legitimately worried about Isley and did want to protect him. I'm not sure how Isley engineered the situation for that though because Priscilla certainly looked serious when Riful showed up. She didn't even look serious when Rigald and Isley first attacked her. Her first response to Isley was, "Oh? So big..."

Isley's words to Riful could have some meaning for this. He said, "Now no one can kill Priscilla" which might indicate that he told Priscilla that she couldn't go to the South safely because of Luciella and Riful. Priscilla didn't enter the fight with Luciella, maybe because she really has no desire to fight, when she could have easily finished her off.

Isley not moving for 7 years is very interesting to me. He has to be doing something. If plot wise he and Priscilla are just waiting to be attacked that seems kind of sad for someone who put the whole claymore world in turmoil. What if Priscilla actually found some distant relatives? Or at least is living in her old town? That would be so strange. I think it is in Isley's best interest to keep Priscilla looking because if she did find anyone she wouldn't need Isley and may not have any desire to do anything at all. That would be bad for Isley because he would lose the ability to rely on Priscilla's intimidation. Maybe 7 years isn't very long for Isley and he is just taking a break? He is practically immortal in a Highlander sort of way.

The Isley Raki Priscilla triangle is so interesting. After 7 years of training and who knows what else I wonder what Raki will be like. Just for plot intensity I don't think Raki knows they are Awakened Beings. The moment he finds out is going to be so painful I can't imagine it happening without us watching. And if he knows and doesn't care then Raki loses almost all like ability. I don't see Clare having a simple solution from her 2 goals; she owes Priscilla for taking care of Raki but also wants to kill her for taking Teresa. This situation is dynamite.

[Claymore_Obsessed]

Imho their relationship is similar to the one between Haman Karn and Mineva Zabi of Gundam.

Priscilla/Mineva Zabi is the one who nominally is in charge and hold the highest rank, but can't be the true leaders for obvious reasons;
Isley/Haman aren't officially the leaders, but in fact they rule supreme because, well, the legitimate rulers aren't capable to do so. Good strategy ^^;

[Higasino Isley]

Isley's words to Riful could have some meaning for this. He said, "Now no one can kill Priscilla" which might indicate that he told Priscilla that she couldn't go to the South safely because of Luciella and Riful.

Yes,this sentence was very important:"Now no one can kill Priscilla" I maybe wrong,or my memory is bad,but anyone tell me what happened with Priscilla that time?Why did Isley mean by that?Before that,Priscilla has only one weak point: (needless to say):her unbalanced and childlike nature.




What if Priscilla actually found some distant relatives? Or at least is living in her old town? That would be so strange. I think it is in Isley's best interest to keep Priscilla looking because if she did find anyone she wouldn't need Isley and may not have any desire to do anything at all. That would be bad for Isley because he would lose the ability to rely on Priscilla's intimidation.

Oh,according to me if Priscilla met her relatives,it wouldn't be matter for kita no Isley.
1.Priscilla-chan hasn't got reason for leave him
2.She never rises against Isley
3.If they(relatives) would be dangerous for him,he will solute that easily with his refined methods



Maybe 7 years isn't very long for Isley and he is just taking a break? He is practically immortal in a Highlander sort of way.

Yes,this time is nothing for him.He was the first male warrior of first Claymore generation,so he is about 1600 years old.

Just for plot intensity I don't think Raki knows they are Awakened Beings. The moment he finds out is going to be so painful I can't imagine it happening without us watching.

It will be painful for Raki and will be strange for us,because of "anime-filler".Raki is going to do everything according to words of anime-Isley:"Impotence is a sin"

[Valduran]

Erm, everyone still seems to be operating under the assumption that Raki has been tagging along with them for seven years...

Someone mind pointing me to the place where that is stated clearly? :eyebrow:

Without direct proof I'd really have a hard time believing that Raki would stay with them for seven years unless he forgot entirely about Clare and became decidedly evil.

[Sassarai]

It's not hard to believe Raki is still with Isley. Raki wants to become stronger by training with Isley in order to be of some use to Clare. In return Raki keeps Prissy company for him. He could be looking for Clare on the side as well.

[Valduran]

It's not hard to believe Raki is still with Isley. Raki wants to become stronger by training with Isley in order to be of some use to Clare. In return Raki keeps Prissy company for him. He could be looking for Clare on the side as well.

Seven years is a long time for a young boy. I don't really think someone with his tempermant has the discipline to stay in once place for that long just to meet his goal of becoming stronger. Add to that the fact that sooner or later he will find out that they are AB if he isn't completely braindead, and it doesn't really seem probable that he has stuck around all this time.

But hey, I could be wrong. Anything is possible...

Although I do think it is kinda amusing if he has, because that would probably mean he has a stronger attachment to Priss now than Clare...
Which is a thought that warms my heart. :cool:

[chibamonster]

Higashino Isley, as I understand it Riful said that it would take 2 Abyssals to defeat Priscilla when she talked with Clare. Riful know that Duff wouldn't help and he was a number 3. With Luciella out of the picture after Isley's fight Riful had no one to team up with as she can't join forces with Alicia. After Isley healed she would need 3 abyssals to stand even a chance of defeating Isley and Priscilla together in combat. Riful has some secret coming up, but as it stands no alliance could be formed that could take out Priscilla and Isley.

Raki still being with Priscilla isn't stated anywhere Valduran as we haven't seen them since the time skip. It's just that a relationship like that is too good to just stop for no reason. Raki is with the 2 most powerful characters in the entire claymore world. It is an explosion waiting to happen for both him and Clare. If it just defuses itself for no reason all that built tension is gone for no reason. Whatever happens with Raki we have to see it. If he finds out they are awakened, we have to see it. If he leaves them and breaks Priscilla's heart we have to see it. The author went through all the trouble of putting them together that I can't imagine Raki and Priscilla/ Isley will just separate on a whim. Priscilla could even be helping Raki look for Clare as Isley trains him to be powerful.

Raki's desire to protect has been focused on Priscilla when we saw them last. She even reminds him of Clare for some reason. No matter where Raki looked in the last 7 years he couldn't have found Clare as she has completely sealed herself off in the north with her buddies. Raki might be getting suspicious about how neither Isley or Priscilla age, but I think they are still together or at least still in contact with one another. He has no reason to leave unless he figures out who they are. While we can't be sure they are still together because it isn't stated anywhere it makes the story much more intense and interesting if they are still together. If they aren't then we need a flashback to see what happened. The only thing I can see seperating them is Raki figuring out who they are and even then he would be conflicted.

[Sassarai]

Raki seems like he has the determination to me. He stood up against Ophelia even though it was hopeless. He seems like he really wants to become of some use to Clare. Since he's human he will need a lot of training just to be able to take down regular yomas. Whether Raki finds out or not depends on how well Isley hides it. He seems like a smart guy. Even if Raki finds out, Isley seems like the type that might be able to work out the situation. Who knows. Seems pretty possible to me. It would also make for a more interesting story if Clare meets Raki again but with Prissy and Easley by his side lol.

[evil_kenshin]

well honestly would you really care if your traveling companions were awakened beings if yo had been with them for several years ? sure it may be a bit of a surprise but not like he'd run away from them for good

heck it works in Raki's favor since who else can train him but someone already naturally strong like Isley even more so that his an AB

[Valduran]

@Chiba: I suppose when you explain it like that then it makes sense. ^^
I was just using too much real-world logic.

@Sassarai: Yes, what I'm really hoping for is that Raki ends up on the other side of the conflict. Manga-Raki as a character doesn't annoy me too badly, but I actually hated his existence because I found Clare's feelings for him to be too far-fetched.

If he sides with Priss then his existence will actually become interesting :)

@evil_kenshin: That is a valid point, but it doesn't take into account Raki's extreme hatred for Yoma. I think the anime Raki's reaction to that revelation was WAY too mild.

[evil_kenshin]

@evil_kenshin: That is a valid point, but it doesn't take into account Raki's extreme hatred for Yoma. I think the anime Raki's reaction to that revelation was WAY too mild.

extreme hatred? don't forget, he tried to stop Clare from killing Elena who was about to become just that. He has a hatred for yoma, but hasn't shown a hatred as such for AB's

also thats unfairly biased you just want Clare to yourself:p (about the "Clares feelings are to far fetched" )

[Siegzon Caritas]

If he sides with Priss then his existence will actually become interesting :)
.

Doesn''t this seem like a very realistic possibility? These 7 years are Raki's teen to 20s, right? Raki knew Clare how long? A few months? A young kid who is now cuddling with Priss for 7 years his *ahem* ardor for Clare may have drifted to memory and there's good old Priss relying on him for support (and a spare meal if times get tight :innocent:) It's hard to imagine any other solution. Him getting away from them without becoming a snack seems unreasonable, too.

[Valduran]

@evil_kenshin: Actually I got the impression he was trying to stop Clare from killing Elena because he didn't fully understand the situation. If Elena had been fully awakened by the time they arrived then I bet Raki wouldn't have made such a fuss.

And if I was just calling it far-fetched cause I wanted someone to myself then I would be dissing Clare, not Raki.

Teresa is the one I want ;)

@Siegzon: It definately seems like the most realistic possibility, but unfortunately I don't really get the feeling the author would pull something like that after all the effort he went through to establish Raki's devotion to Clare. :(

[Shiryuu]

You have a point here but does here really intend to live in the south without doing anything? I mean will Priscilla accept just living in the south? True she has lived 7 years now without doing anything but that doesn't really make them any important given the current events until the encounter between Priscilla and Clare.
All the abyssal ones lived in their respective areas for probably a hundred years without doing anything. It's really nothing new for Isley to just sit there and do nothing. Priscilla also tends to forget about things and regress, so she probably doesn't even care anymore(or Raki has been there to control her; substitute brother?).

Has Raki forgotten about Clare? Does he talk about Clare to Isley and Priscilla? Is it safe to bring the topic of Claymores up around Priscilla?
Most likely forgotten about her since everyone believes they are dead. Isley really doesn't seem to care and Priscilla probably wouldn't even remember what claymores are.

Anyways, it's always possible that Priscilla getting south/home finally cleared up her mind and stuff.

[Negativedark]

Isley is interesting to me. He definitly liked bantering with Rigaldo, and seemed genuinly dissapointed that Rigaldo never aurgued with him anymore. On the other hand he definitly has no trouble sending his forces to die. I don't know if can develop greater feelings for others, and he really doesn't seem to mind them dying too much. On the other hand he may legitimatly have fondness for Priscilla and Raki, even if it is just for what they can do for him.

Now Priscilla is a different matter entirly. There are three Priscilla's. There's the Claymores Priscilla. This is her when she was a Claymore, and was all for great justice. Then there's the Priscilla the Monster. This is her right after she awakened. Cruel, sadistic and bloodthirsty. In short, a normal personality for an awakened. And now we have Priscilla the Innocent. Isley only really knows her as the innocent. She's childlike, and thus mallible. Although she remains a monster who eats guts, she's really not that malicious. In this state Isley can get her to fight for him if he needs to. But he needs to keep her happy. That's where Raki comes in. He keeps Priscilla happy. The worst thing for Isley would be if Priscilla reverts to one of her other personaities, because then he will be dead. It's possible that due to there innocence and purity Isley really does care about the two of them. Or maybe he just uses them, although he did seem to kinda like Raki. It seems Raki makes Isley a little nostalgic, and amuses him.

I do look forward to seeing just what Raki and Priscilla's relationships are like right now. Pris is in a very stunted, childlike state last we saw. She may not be capable of a romantic relationship with anyone. Of course if she is together with Raki, that would be about the worst thing Yagi could do to Claire.

[FateAnomaly]

I thought the reason Isley went south is for Priscilla's sake. He is perfectly content to just stay up north before Priscilla came. He risked his life to defeat Luciela so Priscilla will be safer. I think he is sincere about serving Priscilla. He decided to serve Priscilla because he respected Priscilla ability (maybe also because she is cute) as his superior and not because he afraid to die. Its like he is a knight that need to have a Liege Lord. Isley tolerated Raki cos Priscilla likes him and thats good enough, food is easy to get anyway.

[evil_kenshin]

I thought the reason Isley went south is for Priscilla's sake. He is perfectly content to just stay up north before Priscilla came. He risked his life to defeat Luciela so Priscilla will be safer. I think he is sincere about serving Priscilla. He decided to serve Priscilla because he respected Priscilla ability (maybe also because she is cute) as his superior and not because he afraid to die. Its like he is a knight that need to have a Liege Lord. Isley tolerated Raki cos Priscilla likes him and thats good enough, food is easy to get anyway.

nah he confirmed it, his purpose for heading south was to stop an alliance between Riful & Lucellia ; it was nothing to do with Priscilla at all

he had to take out one of the two or else he would of been in trouble even with Priscilla by his side

[chibamonster]

Negative Dark, nice post :) I liked the analysis of Isley's personality and Priscilla's triple self. If someone took Priscilla's Raki away from her I'd imagine we would see an angry awakened once again. Although it would be even better if she took on others without changing form to keep her true self a secret from Raki. As it stands now there is no way Clare can kill Priscilla and feel justified; she is not the same girl who took Teresa's head. She is certainly a monster but has no ill intent. She just gets hungry. Killing her because she is a monster is still reasonable from a human point of view, but not as a punishment for killing Teresa. Especially considering the conflict Clare will feel knowing that Priscilla took care of Raki. Personally I hope for some form of redemption for Priscilla in the end, but it would still be a long ways off.

I imagine that Priscilla is not in a romantic relationship with Isley or Raki. A relationship like that would require a level a maturity we haven't seen in her yet. She would be protective and have feelings for them but they would be much more child like. She seems to have a desire to just be with Raki. It seems that would be enough to make her happy. I imagine her just watching him from a distance while he trains with Isley until they finish.

I really wonder what Priscilla, Isley and Raki have talked about in the last 7 years. I can't imagine they have just kept silent. Raki would probably do most of the talking. I'd imagine that Isley would answer questions in a vague way that would keep his awakened status a secret. Isley's long life would be chalked full of stories. Raki could even go hunting for normal human food with Isley and have a conversation about whether it is wrong to kill to eat or not. There is a lot of possibility for incredible interactions between them. Especially as Raki becomes truly strong as Isley predicted. What does truly strong mean from an abyssal's point of view?

[Valduran]

Well actually Priscilla and Raki aren't exactly prone to chattering with each other, so who knows :heh:

I disagree that Clare couldn't feel justified for killing Priscilla at this point. No matter who she is now, nothing can change what she did. Her awakening, Teresa's death. It was all her own fault, the result of being a blind fool. Just because she has no ill intent now doesn't make her deserving of any mercy from Clare.
It's revenge, not punishment. Revenge never needs to be currently justified.

[chibamonster]

Oooh. Very good point about revenge. I like it Valduran.

Maybe the reason I am so hesitant for Clare to kill Priscilla as she is now is that it will result in Clare losing so much. It won't bring Teresa back and Clare has already blown Teresa's greatest desire that she live on as a human. If Priscilla's crime was awakening, Clare did the same thing even when she was a much more experienced warrior than Priscilla ever was. Clare has had friends along the way pulling her back from over her limit. Jean, Galatea, Irene to save her, and even Raki. Priscilla had the harsh reality that her reasons to fight were weak and her opponent was stronger than her.

The thing that worries me the most is that the road Clare is taking to kill Priscilla is the same road that led to Priscilla's awakening; hate, blame for killing a loved one, anger and so on. They are not exactly the same (obviously) but many similarities. Clare "lost herself" when Riful just mentioned Priscilla. Galatea had to bring her back (head slam!). If it were not for Clare's friends she would be dead or awakened by now. I think that is what worries me most about Clare's final revenge on Priscilla; it is a road to destruction and I really want Clare to get some of the human life Teresa dreamed for her. Isley seems like much more of a monster than Priscilla has ever been.

Putting Raki with Priscilla and Isley was pure genius. I freaked out when I first realized what had happened.

[evil_kenshin]

Well actually Priscilla and Raki aren't exactly prone to chattering with each other, so who knows :heh:

I disagree that Clare couldn't feel justified for killing Priscilla at this point. No matter who she is now, nothing can change what she did. Her awakening, Teresa's death. It was all her own fault, the result of being a blind fool. Just because she has no ill intent now doesn't make her deserving of any mercy from Clare.
It's revenge, not punishment. Revenge never needs to be currently justified.

i disagree about that : if Clare completes her revenge, it will ruin everything that Clare has achieved . She will awaken in the process & both her and Teresa's dreams will all be trashed (Teresa's dream was for Clare to live as a human die as a human)

do you think Clare would spend so much time to off Priscilla just to become the next Priscilla ?

sure fanboys & girls want to off Priscilla's head but it will have more consequence than first known

[Valduran]

Maybe the reason I am so hesitant for Clare to kill Priscilla as she is now is that it will result in Clare losing so much. It won't bring Teresa back and Clare has already blown Teresa's greatest desire that she live on as a human. If Priscilla's crime was awakening, Clare did the same thing even when she was a much more experienced warrior than Priscilla ever was. Clare has had friends along the way pulling her back from over her limit. Jean, Galatea, Irene to save her, and even Raki. Priscilla had the harsh reality that her reasons to fight were weak and her opponent was stronger than her.

The thing that worries me the most is that the road Clare is taking to kill Priscilla is the same road that led to Priscilla's awakening; hate, blame for killing a loved one, anger and so on. They are not exactly the same (obviously) but many similarities. Clare "lost herself" when Riful just mentioned Priscilla. Galatea had to bring her back (head slam!). If it were not for Clare's friends she would be dead or awakened by now. I think that is what worries me most about Clare's final revenge on Priscilla; it is a road to destruction and I really want Clare to get some of the human life Teresa dreamed for her. Isley seems like much more of a monster than Priscilla has ever been.

Clare finding some kind of peace would be very nice, but unless it was written perfectly I think my mind would rebel against something like that. It just wouldn't fit. Clare is lost in her hate, and unfortunately I'm certain I would be too if I were her. Stories like this really don't have perfect endings in reality.

And for me personally, I don't think I could ever really be *happy* at any ending: the same thing that hooked me into the story is also the thing that ensured Claymore would always be a tragedy for me.

Also, I agree that Priscilla isn't really, truely a monster by nature. It's one of the things that makes Claymore so real and tragic. When the story's main antagonist isn't a villain, just a person in unfortunate circumstances who made one wrong decision. Priscilla's only crime was accepting the fact that Teresa had to die without questioning if she really deserved it... and she can hardly be blamed for that when the Org rescued her from such traumatic circumstances. She believed them to be a shining beacon of hope for the world.

But for me, Claymore isn't a story of right and wrong. It's a story of loss, and revenge. So I'm tossing my morals and hope out the window and joining in Clare's point of view. :sad:

i disagree about that : if Clare completes her revenge, it will ruin everything that Clare has achieved . She will awaken in the process & both her and Teresa's dreams will all be trashed (Teresa's dream was for Clare to live as a human die as a human)

do you think Clare would spend so much time to off Priscilla just to become the next Priscilla ?

sure fanboys & girls want to off Priscilla's head but it will have more consequence than first known

I wasn't talking about what would be RIGHT, I was talking about the simple truth of revenge. Revenge isn't exactly a good thing to begin with, it is very self-destructive, so that's not the issue here. ^^

[redmeat]

Not enough information is presented in the manga for me to get a good a idea on the relationship between Isley and Priscilla. For all I know, Priscilla could be Isley's parttime ho and chess piece just like CC is to Lelouch. It's convienent too: all the free nookie and none of the baggage, plus there's no problem in abusing the crap out of her to vent some steam. Who wouldn't want an immortal plaything that doubles as a strategic weapon? I could just imagine Isley putting Priscilla on his crossbow and lauching her into a populated city like a giant missile. She's too stupid to know what's going on other than she's landed in happy food land.

As for Raki, he probably has lost it already. Probably chained somewhere in a dungeon cell and wearing a heavy helmet while Priscilla plays with him like a doll using pliers and all the fun toys that Isley gave to her as holiday gifts. The fur wearing snow prince will probably lightly chide Priscilla to not play with him too much, lest he ends up like the previous Raki's *points to the huge piles of skeletons in the other cells*

[Guido]

Oooh. Very good point about revenge. I like it Valduran.

Maybe the reason I am so hesitant for Clare to kill Priscilla as she is now is that it will result in Clare losing so much. It won't bring Teresa back and Clare has already blown Teresa's greatest desire that she live on as a human. If Priscilla's crime was awakening, Clare did the same thing even when she was a much more experienced warrior than Priscilla ever was. Clare has had friends along the way pulling her back from over her limit. Jean, Galatea, Irene to save her, and even Raki. Priscilla had the harsh reality that her reasons to fight were weak and her opponent was stronger than her.

The thing that worries me the most is that the road Clare is taking to kill Priscilla is the same road that led to Priscilla's awakening; hate, blame for killing a loved one, anger and so on. They are not exactly the same (obviously) but many similarities. Clare "lost herself" when Riful just mentioned Priscilla. Galatea had to bring her back (head slam!). If it were not for Clare's friends she would be dead or awakened by now. I think that is what worries me most about Clare's final revenge on Priscilla; it is a road to destruction and I really want Clare to get some of the human life Teresa dreamed for her. Isley seems like much more of a monster than Priscilla has ever been.

Putting Raki with Priscilla and Isley was pure genius. I freaked out when I first realized what had happened.

The worst and most tragic outcome coming from walking that path is that if Clare awakens only for the purpose to kill Priscilla in order to quench her revenge, then it would completely defeat the purpose of said vengeance.
Not only that but she would also have killed what remains of Teresa within her, and I am meaning something else aside from Teresa's will.

[Claymore_Obsessed]

Putting Raki with Priscilla and Isley was pure genius. I freaked out when I first realized what had happened.

Quote! :)
Cause now it's great suspense about the route Raki will follow...
as has been said, there's the possibility that he forgets Clare for Priscilla and it would be also realistic... but I refuse to admit that he could do that! aww, forgetting Clare for Priscilla would be a low blow, Yagi-sensei!:heh:

[Zu Ra]

I dont think its a love triangle IMO Raki and Priscilla relationship is like sibling . And we all know Raki loves playing the 'brother' role a lot .

I will eloberate further on these points after I am fully awake http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7342/crazylf6.gif

[Higasino Isley]

I dont think its a love triangle IMO Raki and Priscilla relationship is like sibling . And we all know Raki loves playing the 'brother' role a lot .


It is totally true.Needless to illustrate it with examples,but there is a good one: (volume10/135.page) She and Raki were together in Priscilla's bed.Isley allowed Raki to sleep with her,because he knew,that Raki is only a support for Priscilla-chan,and she also said:"This kid smells nice."And Isley isn't interesting in that.
Love triangle?xD

[Anima]

It is totally true.Needless to illustrate it with examples,but there is a good one: (volume10/135.page) She and Raki were together in Priscilla's bed.Isley allowed Raki to sleep with her,because he knew,that Raki is only a support for Priscilla-chan,and she also said:"This kid smells nice."And Isley isn't interesting in that.
Love triangle?xD
Not true. Raki didn't go to sleep with Priscilla in her bed! She joined him after he slept without him knowing. Raki said "When did she.. I went to sleep alone last night!".

And please, if someone say to your girlfriend/boyfriend in front of you that s/he smells nice, would you mind it?

As for love triangle or not, I could not give a damn, really. We don't even know if Claymores, let alone awakened beings, still have sexual urges and even if they did it hardly contribute to the story. What matters at the end is if Priscilla will protect Isley if he was endangered or not. Whether she loves him (intimacy or whatever) or not wont change a thing. We are talking about awakened beings/yoma not human and their feelings.

[evil_kenshin]

Not true. Raki didn't go to sleep with Priscilla in her bed! She joined him after he slept without him knowing. Raki said "When did she.. I went to sleep alone last night!".

And please, if someone say to your girlfriend/boyfriend in front of you that s/he smells nice, would you mind it?

As for love triangle or not, I could not give a damn, really. We don't even know if Claymores, let alone awakened beings, still have sex urges and even if they did it hardly contribute to the story. What matters at the end is if Priscilla will protect Isley if he was endangered or not. Whether she loves him (intimacy or whatever) or not wont change a thing. We are talking about awakened beings/yoma not human and their feelings.

Actually Agatha refuted that point and proved that AB's do still have sexual urges

[Zu Ra]

The Title of the thread has relationships so yes they are going to be brought up and studied theorized with the angle of love .

I think Awakened ones AB are evolved humans a ‘new race’ or a hybrid if you want to call it , they have bridged the gap between Yoma~Man. But the human part in them is not dead its very much their they exhibit human emotions. Though they may view humans as a food source . Human biengs however 'crude' still yearn for love . Heck even Charles Manson loved somebody.

Even if we degrade AB to the standard of animals. The Love factor is still very much there .Even animals are known to exhibit love and AB are intelligent evolved rational Super Beings .

As I mentioned animals and love in the same sentence NO I am not talking about mating . And don’t even try to picture awakened beings mating @_@

Love triangle?xD

Some post in this thread were hinting implying that . But Raki :uhoh:

[Anima]

Actually Agatha refuted that point and proved that AB's do still have sexual urges
If you are referring to the line: "In this form, I am no different from any other woman. You are a handsome one. How about having some fun with me before you go?" then I think this is very debatable. Just few pages before that one, we saw her graping that soldier and comforting him saying "It's ok. I will treat you right. Don't be afraid" and she even pretended she was gonna kiss him but what was the result? He we torn apart. She might have been teasing Sid nothing more and I see that befitting her personality very much.

And to me, her line with Sid pretty much sounded as she was implying that she has the physical ability/form to have sex NOT the desire/urge as she takes a woman form (most likely her true human form). It reminds me of Anne Rice's vampires chronicles concept of being able to have sex but without enjoying/needing it.

Of course all this is hypothetical and I could be wrong and as I wrote before, it doesn't contribute to the story either way.

I think Awakened ones AB are evolved humans a ‘new race’ or a hybrid if you want to call it , they have bridged the gap between Yoma~Man. But the human part in them is not dead its very much their they exhibit human emotions. Though they may view humans as a food source . Human biengs however 'crude' still yearn for love .
I disagree. Claymores are the hybrid not awakened beings. Claymores are the gab between yoma and man but once they awaken they go to the yoma part. I think from what we have seen, even regular yoma show some "human emotions". We've seen them angry, afraid, happy, excited, surprised, etc but due to their predator nature and tendency for isolation, we don't know if they could show emotions like love (which I am sure they can given the AB loving). My point is that being an awakened being with feelings doesn't mean they inherited it from being humans before awakening.

As I mentioned animals and love in the same sentence NO I am not talking about mating . And don’t even try to picture awakened beings mating
LOL. I don't doubt that Claymores/ABs do love. It's how far can they "express" their love is what I am arguing but I digress. It's pretty obvious that Isley is using Raki to calm Priscilla.

[chibamonster]

Maybe AB's just have a thing for weird relationships. Riful and Duff are together. Duff was torn apart when Riful talked about leaving him. Some Claymores still have strong human desires, as seen with Teresa's maternal protection for Clare. I'm not sure how romantic a Claymore or awakened being can be and this being a shonen manga I don't think it will be explored. It seems that Claymores and AB's are sterile, but I don't have much evidence for that either. If an AB showed up with a baby my head would explode.

To me the AB's seem to have a much nicer life than Claymores. They are not constantly in battle, some of them have relationships and until recently they could just go live without the organization bothering them. There is just that problem of eating humans.

It may sound weird, but to me it seems like Priscilla and Isley are living a much more human life than any claymore in the organization (minus the whole eating people thing). Isley stayed in a nice house playing with a pretty sword he found in the snow. He takes time to talk to Raki and even train him. Isley is powerful, ambitious and cunning but he still takes time to enjoy the simple things around him. They even sleep on beds (at least Priscilla does when Raki is in them). They make being an AB look fun.

And as for my ultimate hope for Priscilla (yes this is a long shot and highly unlikely) I hope she is pulled back from her awakening by Clare in the end. Revenge is only going to end in destruction and I want Clare's soul to be healed.

[Anima]

And as for my ultimate hope for Priscilla (yes this is a long shot and highly unlikely) I hope she is pulled back from her awakening by Clare in the end.
You know actually I've been having this thought for a while that Riful's little secret is to try and reverse Priscilla's awakening! She is looking for a yoki manipulator which could make her trick come to live and hence "balance the power" as she put it. We know that a yoki manipulator could make a claymore pass her limit so why not the opposite? We've seen it done on those who were about to awaken but, indeed, it seems a bit far fetched but one could hope. Although I still want Priscilla's head cut off! Sorry, Teresa was too good to die by being taken down off guard! DAMN YOU PRISCILLA :frustrated:

[Valduran]

Please no! Priscilla MUST die!! :frustrated:
I will be very angry if Priscilla un-awakens, survives to the end and Clare forgives her.
(But apparently that would make Clare a better person than me :uhoh:)

@Chiba: I was thinking exactly the same thing. Can't say it's true for the average AB, but the Abyssals seem to be far more normal and rational than most Claymores >.<

[Siegzon Caritas]

@Chiba: I was thinking exactly the same thing. Can't say it's true for the average AB, but the Abyssals seem to be far more normal and rational than most Claymores >.<

Wouldn't it flip things about a bit if abyssals no longer needed/craved guts? Alas, Priscillas hungry hungry hippo routine sorta squashes that possibility.

[chibamonster]

Wouldn't it flip things about a bit if abyssals no longer needed/craved guts? Alas, Priscillas hungry hungry hippo routine sorta squashes that possibility.

Holy cow. What if after eating Raki's Southern Style cooking Isley and Priscilla no longer crave to eat guts? Then the whole monster thing is out the window. I imagine it would be his special chicken.

I have some reasons for hoping for Priscilla's redemption, not the least of which is Clare gaining some happiness in her life. Personally, I can't completely blame Priscilla for Teresa's death, even though it hurt me on the inside when it happened. Irene would have taken Teresa's head if she had the ability, and Irene was one of the most morale characters I have seen in claymore. As for Priscilla attacking Teresa it reminds me of when Clare was close to awakening and she attacked Raki, Jean and Helen (all on different occasions) for getting close to her and they just wanted to help. Priscilla may have been dumb for releasing her youki in the first place but even Miria got angry enough to cross her limit and Miria is about as level headed as a Claymore gets. I find it hard to identify a point where she actually qualifies as a villain except if she intentionally deceived Teresa to kill her (which I am not sure of).

If Ophelia, who was truly a monster, can get even a little bit of redemption before she dies I think Priscilla could also get a simmilar salvation. I think if any Awakened Being has a chance to return to Claymore form Priscilla tops the chart. She doesn't seem to have any desire to be a monster and has even mentally regressed the fact it seems to protect herself from her past. I imagine she would react like Ophelia and be fairly suicidal if she remembered everything that actually happened to her.

Isley seems quite happy being awakened. Much like the AB Scout who said, "This is why I just can't stop being a monster". Agatha and Rigald also seem quite content with who they have become as well.

[Valduran]

I'm with ya on the cooking thing...I've always suspected Raki's cooking might have unexpected results... :eek:

Priscilla may deserve redemption as much as the next person, actually probably MORE...considering she never did anything sadistic while she was human/claymore like Ophelia.

But Ophelia didn't kill anyone we care about ;)

[Shiryuu]

About the Raki talking about claymores/yoma thing: I'm pretty sure Raki would've noticed something wrong that Priscilla and Isley not aging at all in 7 years.

[chibamonster]

It's interesting that Irene, Sophie and Noella all tried to kill Teresa but failed and Priscilla succeeded making her the one we really dislike. Irene is even a hero for rescuing Clare later in her life when Ophelia tried (unsuccessfully) to kill Clare. Ophelia even got some form of redemption. I guess actions scream louder than just intents. Teresa was the real moral hero (even though the flaw cost her life) because she DID have the power to kill but chose not to for those Claymores who didn't really deserve it. At the same time she killed the humans who did deserve to die. Teresa had her head on straight. Priscilla just followed orders of the organization (well, she still had a bizarre idealistic sense of justice) and found herself unable to control her power or emotions. She didn't know any better at the time.

The same can be said about Clare killing Elaine because of the black note before she found out about half awakening. Clare didn't know it was possible to come back from awakening.

As for noticing the unchanging age of Isley and Priscilla, if Raki doesn't leave their side he probably wouldn't notice. I noticed that my cousins were growing but not my brother and sister as time passed by. Noticing change or the lack there of in those close to you is difficult unless it is extreme. Priscilla seems fully developed physically despite her child like actions so 7 years of not changing isn't really enough to raise suspicions since Isley appears to be an adult as well. They can also run and get food when Raki isn't paying attention (unless the chicken recipe worked). It might catch his attention that they don't eat his food though (unless he makes his spicy chicken). I think it is entirely possible that Raki has been living in a dream world for seven years with two monsters without knowing it. Not only that, the monsters actually like him.

[Fenrir_valindri]

You bring up a point I have been thinking about for a while, why would Raki notice that they don't age?

I don't notice how much family members age unless I have been seperated for a long time, my sisters never registered how much taller then them I had gotten until they moved out and we saw each other less often.

I think it is perfectly belivable that Raki would not notice a difference after a mere 7 years, 15-20 however would trigger some alarms, unless ABs can "pretend" to age.

[chibamonster]

*chibamonster is wondering how tall fenrir valindri has gotten* :thinker: No need to answer, just thought it would be funny if every time you saw your sisters you just got taller and taller and taller...

I just thought of something. Clare now has her youki cloaked along with the rest of the magnificent 7. If Raki hasn't mentioned that Clare is a claymore (out of fear that his new friends will look down on her) Priscilla could meet her and not realize who she is at all. She might just be happy they finally found Raki's long lost friend. Priscilla could even come to her rescue with Raki and Isley before she gives her a hug and says how happy she is to meet her.

I don't even know if Priscilla would recognize a claymore by her hair and eyes at this point. She can still read youki flows but Clare doesn't have a readable one. Isley would know who she was, but Priscilla could be totally oblivious to the whole situation. With how tense the situation is already I was just thinking, "how could this get any worse for Clare?"

Clare would probably pull out her sword and scream "You killed Teresa! Prepare to die!" and Priscilla would just give her a cute confused look before running back behind her Raki. Isley would probably just laugh.

[Valduran]

I am actually quite curious to find out just how aware Priscilla really is, and what exactly her point of view.

I wonder if she actually processes concepts such as external motivations(Raki looking for Clare, Isley reasons for doing whatever it is he does, etc...). Or is she just mindlessly oblivious to all? :hmm:

And also I forget, is it only in the anime in which she ever mentions Teresa again after reappearing in the north?

[Anima]

It seems that Claymores and AB's are sterile, but I don't have much evidence for that either.
Actually, Teresa's behavior when the bandits where hinting about raping her could be used as an evidence that they are unable to reproduce. I mean Teresa wouldn't offer her self to a dozen of men and risk getting pregnant, would she? She did seem serious about it as we've seen when that idiot tagged them and said he would rape her. she just gave up resistance.

Priscilla just followed orders of the organization (well, she still had a bizarre idealistic sense of justice) and found herself unable to control her power or emotions.
Now why I would never forgive Priscilla is what I have emphasized in your quote. She didn't even bother to ask Teresa why she killed those humans (she probably didn't even know they were bandits and what they did to that village). She didn't even bother to ask why she was having a child tagging her. And even when Teresa told her that that was idealistic, she stormed and attacked her right away. If she just acted like Irene, Noel, and Sophia by not giving a damn in justifying this execution it would have been better but giving us that crap of "we are to protect humans not kill them" when she didn't know the circumstances in which Teresa killed the bandits makes me very frustrated.

Priscilla lost it just after Teresa refrained from killing her! She should at least reflect a little and think "but why didn't she kill me?" instead she went nuts that "bastard of a kid" as Noel called her xD

And, please, don't give me that "Clare would be a better person if she didn't kill Priscilla"! If Clare kills Priscilla for the sole reason of her being an AB who feeds on humans, that's fair enough plus she has Ophelia's revenge to carry on as well!

And also I forget, is it only in the anime in which she ever mentions Teresa again after reappearing in the north?
IIRC, yes. only the anime made her remember and I think Priscilla is totally clueless about her condition.

[Shiryuu]

You bring up a point I have been thinking about for a while, why would Raki notice that they don't age?

I don't notice how much family members age unless I have been seperated for a long time, my sisters never registered how much taller then them I had gotten until they moved out and we saw each other less often.

I think it is perfectly belivable that Raki would not notice a difference after a mere 7 years, 15-20 however would trigger some alarms, unless ABs can "pretend" to age.

Dunno... It's pretty easy to tell the difference between a teen and an adult in anime. It could easily arouse some suspicions that she hasn't changed even a little. Just her hair could give it away.... which now makes me wonder, can a bald offensive claymore ever grow hair? :twitch:

And also I forget, is it only in the anime in which she ever mentions Teresa again after reappearing in the north?
Yup. Anime only.

Anyways, I've been wondering about the killing Teresa thing. Priscilla could've easily killed Teresa when they first met, but she was too kind not to strike her from behind. If she had done that, there's probably no way Clare would've been accepted to the organiztion just so she can kill another claymore.

[Valduran]

Actually, Teresa's behavior when the bandits where hinting about raping her could be used as an evidence that they are unable to reproduce. I mean Teresa wouldn't offer her self to a dozen of men and risk getting pregnant, would she? She did seem serious about it as we've seen when that idiot tagged them and said he would rape her. she just gave up resistance.

That's a good point. But also when you just think about the damage and trauma they went through to become a Claymore + the fact that they are now half-monster and it is definately a bit far fetched to even consider they are capable of reproducing.

Now why I would never forgive Priscilla is what I have emphasized in your quote. She didn't even bother to ask Teresa why she killed those humans (she probably didn't even know they were bandits and what they did to that village). She didn't even bother to ask why she was having a child tagging her. And even when Teresa told her that that was idealistic, she stormed and attacked her right away. If she just acted like Irene, Noel, and Sophia by not giving a damn in justifying this execution it would have been better but giving us that crap of "we are to protect humans not kill them" when she didn't know the circumstances in which Teresa killed the bandits makes me very frustrated.

Priscilla lost it just after Teresa refrained from killing her! She should at least reflect a little and think "but why didn't she kill me?" instead she went nuts that "bastard of a kid" as Noel called her xD


*grumble* Thanks for bringing back every single reason why I hate Priscilla so much. I was starting to get soft and think Priscilla maybe deserved a bit of mercy. >.<


And, please, don't give me that "Clare would be a better person if she didn't kill Priscilla"! If Clare kills Priscilla for the sole reason of her being an AB who feeds on humans, that's fair enough plus she has Ophelia's revenge to carry on as well!

Definately, but I think the problem most people are thinking of is if Clare loses herself and awakens in doing so.

But yeah, now that you mention Ophelia I realise Clare has another major reason to not hold back from killing Priscilla. After all, Ophelia will never forgive her if she doesn't. ;)

.... which now makes me wonder, can a bald offensive claymore ever grow hair? :twitch:


If they never had hair to begin with, um, probably not...in that case it wouldn't have anything to do with being offensive/defensive, it's just DNA.

But sure they can grow it BACK. If Irene can grow back a human arm, I'm pretty sure she could handle a bit of hair as well :p

Anyways, I've been wondering about the killing Teresa thing. Priscilla could've easily killed Teresa when they first met, but she was too kind not to strike her from behind. If she had done that, there's probably no way Clare would've been accepted to the organiztion just so she can kill another claymore.

That's a 'what if' that is kinda pointless to dwell on because in that case the story of Claymore really wouldn't exist :D

[Shiryuu]

That's a 'what if' that is kinda pointless to dwell on because in that case the story of Claymore really wouldn't exist :D

Yeah, just trying to suppress all the Priscilla hate. :p

If Irene can grow back a human arm
I don't remember her growing back an arm. Anyways I meant claymore that lost all their hair unnaturally. That's getting off topic though, so whatever.

[Tempest35]

I see a lot of my ideas on Priscilla floating around on this thread...hmmm. :eyebrow:
...:D

As for forgiving Priscilla? Sure why not. I'd forgive Prissy - then decap her right after that.

Forgiving Priscilla for killing Teresa would be more for Clare than for Priscilla anyway. In this way, Clare isn't 'hung up' on Teresa's death anymore and she can finally let the matter rest and live her life for herself. Just because one is absolved from the guilt of an act doesn't mean that the consequences of the act or any there after do not apply.

And I'm sure that many of you are familiar with my stance on Priscilla, no? Need a reminder? :D
All this was cut n paste since I have work to go to. Have fun. Drat, I still have that Priscilla essay I'm working on...! >< Too much stuff to do!!
~BWHAAAAAAAA!!!!~ <---running gag for those who don't know. :p

Okay now for Priscilla vs Easley...
I believe that Priscilla's personality was split at the time of her Awakening. The personality from the time she Awakened to the time she first began her fight with Easley I call 'Awakened Priscilla'. She's a creature of base desires and does not think beyond filling her hunger and demolishing anything standing in her way and killing those who impede her path.

I believe Awakened Pris came into being from the time Pris reached for her sword. I do not think that Pris let out that last scream in jubliation of killing Teresa - but I see it as Priscilla's dying scream. If we say that Awakened Pris is indeed a creature of desires with no compuctions, is it not a creature's desire to live as long as possible? We could not see Priscilla's eyes from the time she lowered her head to Teresa to lop off until we see her as an Awakened one. During that short time frame, I believe that 'Awakened Pris' came into being and dominated the already frazzled and weaked Priscilla. That's why I believe that the final scream was that of Priscilla as the youki surge hit of her hitting her believed to be 100% and blew her consciousness for a loop.

Now that the explaination for 'Awakened Pris' is out of the way, we see it prominently in her treatment of Rigaldo after she had torn his arm off and was stomping on his chest. Her reasons were simple and her language terse and to-the-point. She killed only to eat and struck out to defend herself, nothing more and nothing less.

Then Easley came and as we saw, he dominated her - removing both arms, breaking her horn, and impaling her through her mid-section. Never had she been so injured in her life! It is here that the mental block on her power was removed and in doing so, unleashed the true beast within. The shock of Easley beating her and the subsequent full release of her power knocked out 'Awakened Pris', bringing back Priscilla. Not the Priscilla that 'died' when she Awakened, not this Priscilla has no memory of any of the painful events connected to youma, the ORG, or Claymores. Even her most recent actions are forgotten as she's left sobbing for a family that she can't find.

Since her memories of youma and anything associated with them are glazed over, she doesn't know why her family's missing or why she feels so alone now. She probably doesn't even register that she's outside naked and not even feeling the cold. As far as she's concerned, 'Little Daddy's Girl' Priscilla has waken up from a truly terrifiying nightmare - a nightmare filled with monsters - and she wants to be comforted by her family... The only person around who seems to acknowledge her is Easley and who seems to know about her... and seems nice enough. As to why that is...Here (http://http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1134441&postcount=57) is my inital post for the ES 3 story about Easley's submission and Priscilla - it should explain my take on Easley's reasoning for doing such and I'll expand a bit on that line of thought here as well.

By submitting to her wish of finding her parents, he gains control of her boundless power in return. Easley is truly a tactitian in this regard. She comes to rely on him for everything from lodging and clothes, to food, (she's a child now, at least mentally), and eventually comes to see things his way. Since he's helping her find her parents, she'll go along with anything that he says will help in his search for them.

[Anima]

*grumble* Thanks for bringing back every single reason why I hate Priscilla so much. I was starting to get soft and think Priscilla maybe deserved a bit of mercy. >.<
I am glad that I brought you back to sanity. :D

Definately, but I think the problem most people are thinking of is if Clare loses herself and awakens in doing so.
While awakening is a possibility, I don't see why there is that belief that Clare will awaken if she avenges Teresa's death. I'd assume that Clare is no longer hot-headed since she spent 7 years in training instead of pursuing Priscilla. A hot-headed person can't stand that so I think if she fights Priscilla her chances of awakening are lower than before.

[Voracious Reader]

Anyways, I've been wondering about the killing Teresa thing. Priscilla could've easily killed Teresa when they first met, but she was too kind not to strike her from behind. If she had done that, there's probably no way Clare would've been accepted to the organiztion just so she can kill another claymore.
Probably not easily killed, after all Teresa still noticed her, only a bit late, after she landed. Teresa said she might have wounded her, and is usually not in the habit of exaggerating her own abilities.


I don't remember her growing back an arm.
It's what she says she is going to do when she talks Clare into accepting her old one, oddly enough.

[chibamonster]

Oh tempest, you and your coherent theories... :D. Nice reminder.

As bad as the anime's depiction of Priscilla was in the end (He-man priscilla = gross), it does appear that even though she is awakened she still has a second beast within her as seen when she took off Isley's arm. It may have been that same surge of power that killed Teresa as well. Awakened beings have the ability to suppress their youki somewhat, as Riful does constantly even deceiving others about her power in her fully awakened form, so it is definitely possible that Priscilla is still unconsciously working to stop it from escaping. Yes she is still a marauding human slaughterhouse, but she doesn't enjoy it. She's just hungry.

If such a schism exists within Priscilla then the real monster at fault for the death of Teresa is in hibernation most of the time. Priscilla's inability to confront this inner demon resulted in her awakening partially because she had NEVER released her youki before. Miria's anguish at losing Hilda resulted in her crossing her limit and she wasn't even in danger at that moment. So it makes sense that after Priscilla had her concept of the world smashed mixed in with releasing her youki for the first time that things didn't go smoothly.

Priscilla has become a very complex character for Clare to deal with in the future. As it stands, Clare has 2 goals that she seems obsessed with; Kill Priscilla, Find Raki. Unfortunately for her, those two formally independent goals are now intimately mixed together. Priscilla took Teresa's life, spared Clare's life, and now seems to have saved Raki's life (Isley would have eaten him if it weren't for her I think :D). It is going to be a very difficult reunion.

[Tempest35]

'intimately mixed together' - I like that. :D

... :eek: ... I just had an ephifany.

My prediction: The one to kill Isley will be none other than Priscilla herself - 'Awakened Priss' to be exact. Here me out - What's going to be the last thing that 'Awakened Priss' is going to remember - Isley's big ol' hoof stomping her into the ground. You think that she's going to forget that?? Only this time, there is no 'mental block' holding back the full measure of her power - the psycho side/personality of Priscilla is going to be dominant with all her powers at the ready. THIS is the Priscilla that Clare will have to deal with - and damn it's going to be a bloodbath.

Okay, as for how I came to that...I'm sorry but I had to look back at the anime for it...:heh:
IF the speculation on Priscilla's split personalities is true and if the hypothesis of when Priscilla remembers not only about youma, youki, and being a Claymore, but also that she killed Teresa, Noel, Sophia, and possibly hundreds of people as an AWAKENED ONE - Priscilla's gonna have one major headache. Two things can happen here:

1) As seen in the anime, when the memories return, it's too much for Priscilla psyche to handle so 'Awakened Priss' comes out to play as mentioned above.

~or~

2) Priscilla's dual personalities merge, which is quite possibly the most frightening possibility ever. That may be the start of yet another rampage, but this one will be far more destructive. She will kill Isley for lying to her about her family (leaving Raki alone because she'll say that she loves him). She will destroy the ORG for lying to her from the very beginning and also slaughter any Awakened Being and youma that crosses her path on the way there. I wouldn't put it past her to try and destroy everything that had even a whiff of youki to her. And there, amongst the smoking ruins of the ORG, the final battle will take place.

[Yorae_paladin1]

'intimately mixed together' - I like that. :D

... :eek: ... I just had an ephifany.

My prediction: The one to kill Isley will be none other than Priscilla herself - 'Awakened Priss' to be exact. Here me out - What's going to be the last thing that 'Awakened Priss' is going to remember - Isley's big ol' hoof stomping her into the ground. You think that she's going to forget that?? Only this time, there is no 'mental block' holding back the full measure of her power - the psycho side/personality of Priscilla is going to be dominant with all her powers at the ready. THIS is the Priscilla that Clare will have to deal with - and damn it's going to be a bloodbath.

Okay, as for how I came to that...I'm sorry but I had to look back at the anime for it...:heh:
IF the speculation on Priscilla's split personalities is true and if the hypothesis of when Priscilla remembers not only about youma, youki, and being a Claymore, but also that she killed Teresa, Noel, Sophia, and possibly hundreds of people as an AWAKENED ONE - Priscilla's gonna have one major headache. Two things can happen here:

1) As seen in the anime, when the memories return, it's too much for Priscilla psyche to handle so 'Awakened Priss' comes out to play as mentioned above.

~or~

2) Priscilla's dual personalities merge, which is quite possibly the most frightening possibility ever. That may be the start of yet another rampage, but this one will be far more destructive. She will kill Isley for lying to her about her family (leaving Raki alone because she'll say that she loves him). She will destroy the ORG for lying to her from the very beginning and also slaughter any Awakened Being and youma that crosses her path on the way there. I wouldn't put it past her to try and destroy everything that had even a whiff of youki to her. And there, amongst the smoking ruins of the ORG, the final battle will take place.

I think number 2 is a strong possibility if her personalities merge the true justice loving priscilla would return and would then realize she murdered hudred of people men , women and children. In fit of guilt and self loathing she would destroy everything related to the yoma claymores(cause she knows they will become monsters eventually)awakened especially isley for using her through a lie. And the org for there extortion of humanity. She might probably allow clare to kill her cause she was weak and could not resist awakening

[chibamonster]

Fun posts Tempest and Paladin! I'm going to respond out of spoilers because I don't see any reason to hide the discussion. :D

Now a Priscilla with all of her power and a returned sense of justice not to mention hatred of youma would be a Priscilla worthy of battle as opposed to just putting out of the humans misery. The AB Priscilla we first met seemed very cold and willing to kill unlike the one Isley and Rigald encountered who was just thinking about filling her stomach. She even told Rigald she wasn't going to eat him? What was that about? The Priscilla who butchered the other top 5 of her generation seemed much more bloodthirsty. And from Ophelia's ramblings it seems that sometimes Priscilla fed in her fully awakened.

Priscilla deciding to end all youki in the world in a twisted sense of retribution would address some very difficult morals questions; without Youma the Claymores really aren't needed. Really humans might be better off without either side. As it stands they have no choice.

The only way I imagine Clare would be able to battle Priscilla at full power would be if she soul linked and awakened (if Clare wants to survive the combat, if she doesn't care then she could just awaken and then commit suicide but...). Clare gets a massive boost in power over her limit, more so than any other half awakened. But her heart would have to be controllable which makes me worry about her rage and obsession with revenge which might cause a soul link, even with someone already half awakened, to fail. Having "a weak heart" was what lost Luciella to Raphaela in the first place.

On the other hand, if it really turns out that the organization is the real bad guy I almost want to see Clare and Priscilla team up (preferably with a returned Claymore form of Priscilla). With the progression in the story from half awakening in Rabona, Meeting the fab 4, meeting fully awakened Jean who returned, Clare partially awakening her own limbs, and then being introduced to Alicia and Beth, it seems the final step in the progression would be returning a fully awakened AB to their claymore form (although Priscilla would probably kill herself if her hatred of youma ever surfaced again, that or go kill all youma). But we also have Priscilla, the most powerful force in the claymore world, who has always been unstable. Priscilla going nuts again, maybe at Rakis death even, is fairly likely. Isley is really in a dangerous situation either way if Priscilla ever gets serious.

[Valduran]

First, Chiba...I'm not sure I like your radical ideas. I might have to report you to the Org for being an AB sympathiser! :frustrated:

:joke:

But considering this IS a shounen manga, there's no reason why Clare won't someday be powerful enough to have a no holds barred fight with Priscilla.
(Dunno if that particular discussion has already been beaten to death, but I'm of the opinion that Teresa was potentially the most powerful force in the Claymore universe, so with her inside Clare it doesn't really seem like there is much limit on how high Clare can go)

I'm actually quite skeptical that this will end in a final battle between Clare and Priscilla though, Yagi has so far proven himself to be far too intelligent to stoop to something that cliched and predictable.

Also, I'd be willing to bet the Org IS NOT the real villains here. There have been way too many obvious hints that they are more than what they pretend to be, it would no longer be a suprise for us to find out they are main villains and thus doesn't seem likely to happen.

So yeah, heh, I just like to poke holes in theories...no clue really what is gonna happen :heh::heh:
(I definately agree that Isley's future is hanging by a thin thread though, poor guy!)

But seriously! Such traitorous thoughts you have! :upset:
Clare and Priscilla teaming up?! I'd die... :uhoh:

[Tempest35]

Before we get off on that tangent...:heh:

I'll try to jump-start a return to topic by saying this: Isley probably already knows that he'll be in some sort of trouble once Priscilla regains her memories (what sort memories she's lost, he doesn't know but...)

Also, to the powers that be, can we extend the title of this thread to include Raki-boy? :D?

[Valduran]

Hehe, Sorry Tempest... ^^

I think currently the thread would be more appropritely titled "Priscilla Speculation" :D

Problem is, we haven't really seen enough of Isley and Priscilla together to generate much of a meaningful discussion. There's only so much speculation that can happen before it's all been said and we are just repeating ourselves :/

Would be helpful if we could actually get a hint as to what their relationship is after the seven years(i.e. has Priscilla actually truely become attached to Isley or Raki, has she become more aware of what is going on, etc...)

Hm, but now that I think about it... Isley's method of convincing Priss to join him was to promise to find "Mama and Papa" for her. I wonder when she's gonna realise that's not really likely to happen? :p

[Shiryuu]

The AB Priscilla we first met seemed very cold and willing to kill unlike the one Isley and Rigald encountered who was just thinking about filling her stomach. She even told Rigald she wasn't going to eat him? What was that about? The Priscilla who butchered the other top 5 of her generation seemed much more bloodthirsty. And from Ophelia's ramblings it seems that sometimes Priscilla fed in her fully awakened.

Claymore experience ecstasy/pain when they awaken. Maybe ABs don't feel the same way or as much. She was probably still in the middle of the pleasure of killing Teresa/awakening, when the other 3 attacked her. Her hunger eventually took over and she just went away instead of attacking Clare too.

I really don't see why Priscilla would go psycho on Isley if she regained her "memories". She would know what she is. She would still have memories of the past 7-8+ years. She'd come to terms with her being an AB just like every other normal AB.

[chibamonster]

I agree the thread should probably include Priscilla & Raki speculation along with just Priscilla speculation because both of those characters have had much more screen time to speculate about than Isley. Also since their futures are all intertwined it is hard to talk about one without the other, especially because Clare is after both Priscilla and Raki.

The biggest problem I see coming for Priscilla is what Irene said when she first introduced her, "She hates youma more than anyone." I don't think it is something that has disappeared from the story. Ophelia hated awakened beings a lot and her own attitude completely changed when she realized she had awakened. As amazing as it was, Ophelia did not pick up on the subtle queues of her own awakening like not having legs, desiring to eat guts, suddenly being very tall, having lots of teeth, scales, protrusions from her back, etc... She had to see her own reflection to put it together and even then it took her a while to figure out. Priscilla seems to have mentally regressed to a point BEFORE she killed her own father to avoid the realization of what she has become; the same kind of monster which she hates the most. Or at least regressed to a point where her hatred hadn't formed yet. Priscilla is worse than any normal youma and has created many young girls with the same story as her own; Clare and Ophelia for starters.

I think Priscilla's internal conflict is far from over. She is an explosion waiting to happen with just her own psyche, let alone fighting others. The power of her hatred and the reality of what she has become is going to clash at some point. If she accepts herself as an awakened being, discarding her humanity she will become a true villain. But her hatred of youma coupled even with her simple caring for Raki really could win in the end. It saved Clare from becoming a monster. As we have seen, the uncontrollable flow of youki can be stopped by a motivated human heart. Ophelia still managed some humanity as an awakened being even if she never had any as a Claymore. I don't see a simple end for the girl who took away my Teresa.

[Fenrir_Magnus]

When Riful was about to kill Isley (weakened from the fight with Luciela) but didn't do so because Priscilla was there, I find it strange that Raki didn't follow Priscilla. Before the fight it is clearly shown that something was troubling Priscilla and Raki was with her, so the fact that Raki wasn't there can't be explained by him being asleep or not being with Priscilla at that moment. I think it's unlikely that he was killed by Priscilla.

Also, I doubt Raki would hang around with Isley and Priscilla for 7 years without noticing something isn't right about them. He would surely notice they never eat normal food for example, and perhaps they sometimes "disappear" mysteriously. Perhaps Isley is very discrete when he goes to catch his lunch, but I doubt that's the case for Priscilla.

This is off-topic but... does someone else besides me think that Priscilla is a lot like Lucy/Nyuu from Elfen Lied? Both of them are sadistic and powerful killing machines that lose their memory because of some severe physical injury. When they lose their memory, both develop another personality that's very childish and innocent. Lucy never uses her vectors when she is Nyuu, and Priscilla hasn't shown her powers after she lost her memory in the fight with Isley. Also, Priscilla's behavior towards Raki is similar to Nyuu's behavior towards Kouta.

[Shiryuu]

This is off-topic but... does someone else besides me think that Priscilla is a lot like Lucy/Nyuu from Elfen Lied? Both of them are sadistic and powerful killing machines that lose their memory because of some severe physical injury. When they lose their memory, both develop another personality that's very childish and innocent. Lucy never uses her vectors when she is Nyuu, and Priscilla hasn't shown her powers after she lost her memory in the fight with Isley. Also, Priscilla's behavior towards Raki is similar to Nyuu's behavior towards Kouta.

No, never. Lucy was a jealous psycho bitch. :mad:

[Yorae_paladin1]

Claymore experience ecstasy/pain when they awaken. Maybe ABs don't feel the same way or as much. She was probably still in the middle of the pleasure of killing Teresa/awakening, when the other 3 attacked her. Her hunger eventually took over and she just went away instead of attacking Clare too.

I really don't see why Priscilla would go psycho on Isley if she regained her "memories". She would know what she is. She would still have memories of the past 7-8+ years. She'd come to terms with her being an AB just like every other normal AB.

Not priscilla and not all AB's come to terms with that they are Ophelia didn't and died for that I bet priscilla will be the same unlike Riful and Isley who threw away anything and everything human about themselves Priscilla won't do so. She will end up like Ophelia.

[Shiryuu]

Not priscilla and not all AB's come to terms with that they are Ophelia didn't and died for that I bet priscilla will be the same unlike Riful and Isley who threw away anything and everything human about themselves Priscilla won't do so. She will end up like Ophelia.
Ophelia was with a claymore when she realized what she was. She had a chance to redeem herself. If Priscilla were to change while around Raki/Isley, it's not very likely that it will go like that.

[Zu Ra]

I do find something strange why do Teresa Fans hate Priscilla so much . Teresa is my fave character in Claymore , I feel like an oddity . I love Teresa I like Priscilla I dont mind the bashing . But we all know Priscilla cheated to win , Teresa say at 10% as on equal footing with 70 % Priscilla ( click (http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5584/claymorev05049yo7.jpg)). That pretty much tells you Priscilla was never in the league of Teresa .

But we have to be thankful to Priscilla for making Teresa a demigod , immortalizing her . Some fans say Clare was the factor which weakened Terresa . But Clare gave Teresa whats she always wanted happiness and belonging .

Point of my post , If I am huge Teresa fan but do I have to hate on Priscilla ( she is like my 3rd fave chara in Claymore) . I feel like an oddity

[Anima]

Teresa say at 10% as on equal footing with 70 % Priscilla ( click (http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5584/claymorev05049yo7.jpg)). That pretty much tells you Priscilla was never in the league of Teresa .
Excuse me, but 10% Teresa pwned more-than-70% Priscilla not just on equal footing! :mad:
<----- Teresa fanboy

But we have to be thankful to Priscilla for making Teresa a demigod , immortalizing her . Some fans say Clare was the factor which weakened Terresa . But Clare gave Teresa whats she always wanted happiness and belonging .
Agreed. If Teresa wasn't killed, her popularity would have been way less than what we have now.

Point of my post , If I am huge Teresa fan but do I have to hate on Priscilla ( she is like my 3rd fave chara in Claymore) . I feel like an oddity
I don't feel that at all! I am sure many share my opinion but hey, she killed our Bishou no Teresa! :upset:

Now back to topic:
Not priscilla and not all AB's come to terms with that they are Ophelia didn't and died for that I bet priscilla will be the same unlike Riful and Isley who threw away anything and everything human about themselves Priscilla won't do so. She will end up like Ophelia.
I don't think so. Priscilla (as I said before) lost it before even awakening. add years (more than 7 years) of being in the same mental state and I would hardly imagine her recovery coming that easy and Shiryuu has a point as well.

[Valduran]

Geta Boshi, there is nothing wrong with liking Priscilla. I'm sure I would if she hadn't killed Teresa... some of us just don't handle loss very well ;)

The biggest problem I see coming for Priscilla is what Irene said when she first introduced her, "She hates youma more than anyone." I don't think it is something that has disappeared from the story.

I think Priscilla's internal conflict is far from over. She is an explosion waiting to happen with just her own psyche, let alone fighting others. The power of her hatred and the reality of what she has become is going to clash at some point. If she accepts herself as an awakened being, discarding her humanity she will become a true villain. But her hatred of youma coupled even with her simple caring for Raki really could win in the end. It saved Clare from becoming a monster. As we have seen, the uncontrollable flow of youki can be stopped by a motivated human heart. Ophelia still managed some humanity as an awakened being even if she never had any as a Claymore. I don't see a simple end for the girl who took away my Teresa.

Simple end for Priscilla? Probably not.

Unfortunately, we haven't seen any amount of selflessness or love from her so far, and those things are the most important part of retaining your humanity. I think Clare's heart is strong because she is driven by her love for Teresa probably more than even her hate for Priscilla. Regrettably I think that even if it had been Priscilla in Clare's place at Rabona, the result still would have been a new awakened being and Raki's death. Even Priscilla's reasons for caring about Raki seem to be rooted in selfishness.

Not saying Priscilla was heartless and uncaring before she awakened, but she was portrayed more as selfish and unbalanced. Of course, we didn't realise Ophelia loved/cared about anyone until the moment of her death, so nothing is certain in this matter.

[chibamonster]

Because Priscilla is such a main character to the story it is pretty safe to say that she is not going to have any major changes behind our back. By that I mean her conflict is central to the plot development of Claymore and will get some major screen time, whatever happens. Priscilla suddenly returning to being the same cold AB that attacked the top 4 and joked about Irene misplacing her arm with no explanation of how it happened would be a huge let down. Almost like Clare suddenly saying, "oh, by the way, I found raki in these 7 years and he's doing fine." The conflict is defused, not explored and it is worse than boring, it is disappointing. Priscilla is set up with a child like mind for a reason. Whatever happens with Priscilla it is going to be on the main stage front and center.

Good point Valduran. I agree that Priscilla hasn't shown selfless love in the series (except maybe to the memory of her family but that is certainly debatable). As for Priscilla awakening I have 2 thoughts on the matter. Either she was truly unstable, being an experimental creation by the organization or something, or Teresa just put her into a rare situation she would never experience in any other form of combat in claymore.

If Priscilla was truly unstable, maybe because of the massive power locked inside of her, then whenever she released her youki and got scared she would have struggled to maintain her human heart. Priscilla is a different monster than even the Abyssals. Not being able to maintain the power wouldn't be surprising.

My other take on the matter would be that Teresa's overwhelming power, true sense of justice, and benevolent mercy hit so heavily against Priscilla's model of the world that she had no defense. Much like when Miria realized she had taken Hilda's head and lost control. I can't imagine that any character BESIDES Teresa could put Priscilla in that situation. It is possible that if Teresa and Priscilla had never fought Priscilla would have become a fine warrior as she learned her limits.

Very nice point on Ophelia having some humanity as an awakened being. It seems that avoiding awakening and returning can be done in several ways as long as the human heart is still active in the process. Clare has done it to protect when with Raki, for Revenge when Riful mentioned Priscilla's name, and out of anger and a desire for power with Rigald. Miria avoided awakening because she didn't want to give Ophelia the satisfaction of ruining her. Jean was determined to die as a human. Now it seems simple for the Fab 4 to just avoid awakening as seen with Clare and Deneve fighting the youki manipulator in Pieta. Priscilla was still a rookie, as Teresa said, and didn't stand a chance once she lost control of her emotions. Awakening is a complex thing, which makes the story so interesting :)

[Negativedark]

I wouldn't mind it if when Claire fights Priscilla, she confronts her with just WHY Teresea killed those bandits.

Isley has a good reason to keep around Raki, as he want's to keep Priscilla happy. But I have to wonder. With his speech about power and it's price, what will Raki be like when we see him again? So far we haven't seen any evidence that anyone other than the organization can make Hybrids. If any of the Abyssals could, that alone would have disrupted the balance of power right there.

Finnally I was reading volume 2 the other night, and I realized there is a perfectly innocent reason for Priscilla to be in the bed with him. You see in the inn in Rabona, Raki had his blanket crumpled up and was hugging it. Clearly Priscilla saw him doing this, and realized he'd get cold. But if she just fixed the Blanket, he'd end up hugging it agian. So in order to keep him warm, she gave him something else to hug. Perfectly innocent, no?

[Tempest35]

*snerk* Well, I'll come out and say proudly that I like Priscilla more than Teresa - she's a much more interesting character to me. 'Crazy people are more interesting.' :D
That and in most shonen stories, Priscilla would be the main character, hands down. Poor girl just went to the Dark Side.

and I must laugh at Chiba's words of 'Teresa's overwhelming power, true sense of justice, and benevolent mercy'. I wonder if Teresa herself would agree/describe herself with such words.

'-her overwhelming power!'
Teresa: Well, I can't argue that.

'-her true sense of justice!'
Teresa: ... more like common sense but sure, I'll take it.

'-her benevolant mercy!'
Teresa: ...actually it was more of a whim than anything but I'll take that too.
Irene: -_- Shameless...

[Valduran]

*snerk* Well, I'll come out and say proudly that I like Priscilla more than Teresa - she's a much more interesting character to me. 'Crazy people are more interesting.' :D
That and in most shonen stories, Priscilla would be the main character, hands down. Poor girl just went to the Dark Side.


I hate you.


'-her overwhelming power!'
Teresa: Well, I can't argue that.

'-her true sense of justice!'
Teresa: ... more like common sense but sure, I'll take it.

'-her benevolant mercy!'
Teresa: ...actually it was more of a whim than anything but I'll take that too.
Irene: -_- Shameless...

You made me smile. I forgive you. :)

I have to say though, if this was "most shounen stories" then it would be boring and half of us wouldn't even read/watch it :p

[chibamonster]

@negative dark. Priscilla blanket and Isley pony! What a fun world Raki lives in :D

@ Tempest. Haha, Teresa probably would smack me in the side of the head for saying it too. That or make out with me. Never can tell (someone posted Kate Beckinsale as a live action Teresa somewhere, must have had me thinking). Now I just need to pool enough money together to get a claymore to come to town and hope for the best... <note to self: practice hugging, crying, and cooking>

For being the most powerful claymore Teresa didn't have an issue with bragging. She just put down the facts as she saw them. She didn't kill Irene, Noela, or Sophia because they would never be a threat to her, but for her own safety she should have killed Priscilla. It was just that when she thought of killing Priscilla she couldn't help but think of Clare. Priscilla was saved, not by her own abilities, but because Teresa was Merciful. Irene even sees this as her fatal flaw at that moment. Sure Teresa hadn't always been that way, but with the addition of Clare into her life she had taken justice into her own hands by killing the bandits and even shown mercy to the claymores sent to kill her. She wasn't selfish about her objectives either as seen when she killed a youma risking the towns retribution at her appearance.

Priscilla was doing the same thing Teresa did for the organization, but Teresa progressed past that because of Clare, who gave meaning to her life. Teresa lived by her own choices and accepted the consequences. Priscilla couldn't do that. The world she had accepted as a claymore was simple; killing humans was wrong and anything that killed humans was evil. Too bad that belief led her to become a monster herself who kills humans. No wonder she is messed up.

I really liked how you mentioned that Priscilla would even be the main character in other shonen manga. It got me thinking. No results from the thinking yet, but I will let you know when they pop up. :D

And now this one will be deleted too by an admin. Too bad. Could you move the posts to a more appropriate thread so we can keep talking about it somewhere as opposed to losing it all? I figured Teresa was a central character to Priscilla's development so discussing their encounter would fall into Priscilla's development and even her future.

[NoSanninWa]

There is some value in these last 8 posts so I'll leave them here, but take all the Priscilla vs Theresa stuff to the power level thread or someplace else where it is more appropriate. This thread is only for Priscilla's relationship with Isley, not her relationship with Theresa.

[Negativedark]

For me the unknown variable in accuratly defining Priscilla and Isley's relationship is Isley. Is he capable of genuine feelings for anyone? I'm not really sure at this point. I do find his conversations with Rigaldo interesting however. I almost got the impression he was dissapointed Rigaldo didn't, well banter with him more. Between that and the fooling around with Raki's sword Isley strikes me as bieng prone to nostalgia.

[chibamonster]

Riful mentioned that Isley is much less kind hearted than her. She also seems to know Isley fairly well, I'd imagine from some history together. Riful keeps Duff around because he is no threat to her and can survive whatever it is they do together (I imagine she gets really angry when she is hungry). How many other boy friends has she been through? Really she would be a good match for Isley except their manipulative personalities would clash and they would probably end up trying to kill each other while smiling and whispering sweet nothings.

This is just speculation; I can't imagine Isley respecting anyone who isn't his intellectual equal which Priscilla certainly is not. I think Isley respect's Priscilla's power, but because he can use it. So far he has just used everyone else, Rigald, Priscilla, Raki, all the male ABs of the North, to win a battle of wits against Riful it seems. He hasn't really cared about them. Now Riful is trying to out think Isley. It is almost like they are playing a long game of chess with awakened beings and claymores as their pieces.

Isley could have used all of his forces to take out Riful and Duff without even bothering with the Claymores of the North. Even him, Rigald and a few others would have managed it without Priscilla. But he didn't. This could have been because he didn't know Luciella's personality as well as Riful's and she might have attacked him in his weakened state after fighting Riful putting Priscilla's resolve to fight to the test. Or it could be because Luciella was an easier target. Whatever his goal was he took the lead in the power struggle and now is just sitting there. I expect a lot more to come from Isley in the future.

We have only ever seen Isley interacting with Priscilla or Raki. His entire existence in the story is to compliment Priscilla. Without her he never would have moved to war. It is like the author split the role of villain and put it between Priscilla and Isley. I think it is interesting in how some characters in claymore take a stereotypical hero or villain and split their attributes between 2 people; Miata and Clarice come to mind. If Clarice and Miata were just 1 person she would be an incredible killing force with power and smarts (Teresa like even). But they are incomplete by themselves having to rely upon each other. While Teresa was a powerful warrior with some concern for humans, she did not really love anyone. Only through her interaction with Clare did she gain a real human side. Not every character is this way, but relationships are incredibly important in the story.

Priscilla would still be wandering around if it weren't for Isley. Not knowing where to go (because she was in the North when she was thinking she should be in the south) and Isley would still be wandering around with Rigald tagging along. Now with Raki added to the equation Priscilla might even have found a vicarious family to care for filling her need. Raki also has someone to protect and is even getting stronger under Isley's instruction.

*I'm still worried about what I can and can't post in this thread :uhoh:*

[Siegzon Caritas]

Chibamonster, that's a really good observation about the dynamism of relationships in Claymore. It's not just diads, is it? Pris, Isley and Raki is a triad that was previously Isley Rigardo Pris. With Clare it was Raki, but as some said that was forced--or the exception to the rule. Ophelia-Irene-Clare was one with the output going into Clare, just as Jean, Galatea fed into Clare. It requires more thought...

But bringing it to Isley, I see nothing to characterize him other than as a sociopath and I just don't see how in 7 years Raki would grow strong in such company. Unless they put yoma power into him he's a human so even were he peak he would be a non-factor. As a moral force he is surrounded by ABs so yikes! He'll have 7 years of power is good for its own sake and ends justify means! Raki may be a useful fulcrum for Isley to move Pris in day to day tasks, but Isley reeks of the outward appearance that sociopaths hold while displaying real caring is to me in doubt. I just don't see how this triad could survive 7 years.

So if the Triad cannot work for Raki's benefit and Isley is a fixed villain (debatable, but my position), the dynamic output of the triad over these 7 years would be Pris. Raki has a good heart and he wants to do the right thing and the family atmosphere mentioned could it compound to some sort of Priscilla as daughter--little sister? But those aren't empowering roles, but would she keep the output of Raki's kindness and Isley's protection to impact her awakened form so it has some cohesiveness? Where --- as she must know about Clare from Raki-- she then must eliminate Clare to maintain her family. She must do so quietly so as not to impact her relationship with Raki. And these kind of familial jealousies are primal enough in nature that it could seep in to her other damaged personas. And she powers up one night and hunts down Clare.

Isley as the father figure remains in the catbird seat as long as he does not misinterpret his archetype in Prisss's psyche, but if he does booyah! However, sociopaths are adroit at manipulating people, so he is unlikely to make such a misstep.

Utter speculation. Too few datapoints.

[Negativedark]

Reread Extra Scene 3 last night. I noticed a few things.

1- Isley did have a chance to kill Priscilla. Right after she destroys his right arm, and reverts to her human form he begins to attack with his left arm, but stops. I belive he could have killed her then, as she was open. This does not mean Isley is stronger than Priscilla, but rather that her weakness of having a fragile psyche remains. Clearly Isley saw an oportunnity, and he took it. He also talks about going to the warm lands of the south. So I belive that Isley has actually wanted the better, and more populous southern territories for some time.
2- Priscilla is talking about her brother and Sister. This is interesting, as I wonder if she might be projecting her brother onto Raki. if so her feelings for him might be sibling rather than romantic in nature. It'll be really interesting if after hanging out with Raki for several years she begins to project on the Claire he talks so much about her sister.

[Fenrir_valindri]

What would be scary is if the reason Priscilla had spared Clare was because a part of her thought of Clare as her sister, much like Raki probably imposes the image of her brother.

The reason Priscilla spared Clare is still a major question mark to me, their are so many possibilities that it just cannot be written out.

Tempest and I mostly agree on points about Priscilla, her character has so much potential, and it is obvious her situation won't be solved by something as simple a a "climatic final battle" scenario, I could see her destroying Isley quite easily if she regained her former personality.

I would like to adress the point made earlier about Priscilla not questioning Teresa for her reasons.

For this I would like to say, would you ask a mass murder why he killed a group of people, bandits or no, without mercy. Teresa slaughtered those bandits, and whether we agree with her decision or not does not change the fact that she did kill people, and more then a few.

To someone with a very focused (aka narrow) sense of justice like Priscilla it is no suprise that she would not ask Teresa the reason why she killed the bandits, the simple fact is that she did.

I do agree with tempest, I honestly don't think Teresa saw herself (or was) any sort of beacon of justice, she was definatly a person to be admired, and quite powerful, but just because Priscilla's sense of justice was flawed, does not mean that Teresa's was much better (as far as morals go.)

She is guilty of mass homicide, black-mail, and child abuse. :P

Does not mean that I agree with Priscilla, Teresa deserved to live, and her character will always be one of my favorites, but she was no shining beacon of justice.

[Tempest35]

I definitely see our little 'Triad' surviving 7 years - Isley wants it to remain that way and quite frankly, he needs it to remain as is. If Priscilla regains her memories - his party is over. He almost has no idea of what Priscilla was like (personality-wise) before he met her all those years ago. Even Priscilla herself doesn't remember. She wants to find her family and so far, Raki has done a 'marvelous' job of keeping her spazzed out notion of 'finding her family' occupied. He knows that they are dead (why else would she have been a Claymore?) but he's not going to tell her. Sure, pretend to look for them - conquering the land before searching it is a much easier way to do so. :heh:

Isley's the only one who can upset their little balance and I doubt that he's in that much of a hurry to die. Which I'm now quite certain that he will - painfully.

[khryoleoz]

I know what's being said, but on finer technical points, Teresa isn't guilty of homicide as she's never been shown to kill one of her own kind. She killed yoma, ABs, and humans deserving of their comeuppance. If you associate Claymores as belonging to the human family, then you can say it is homicide.

She need not see herself as being a beacon of anything. The plain truth is that even though she never planned on doing it, she did what was fitting, right, and just. Whatever her personal views are about herself, her actions made her an agent of justice. You judge a person's character by what they indeed do, not just what they say they believe they ought to be doing yet show no evidence of doing it.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Teresa was still human, so even if the bandits deserved it, it was still murder.
I do consider Claymores to be humans, I consider every Claymore we have met so far very human, even the likes of Ophelia, its just that humans are not always as nice as we would like them to be.

Also, I am not sure about her other actions, but an agent of justice would not slaughter a group of people, bandits or no, when it is clear they no longer hand any interest in engaging her, or anyone for that matter.

This act was still very human, and I am quite sure their are many of us present that would have done the same thing if it was within our ability, but that does not mean it is right, or even justice.

I still like the fact she killed all the marauding bastages though. :D

Edit: and sorry for getting off topic.

[Tempest35]

Well, the cowards DID wait on their butts until she killed the youma before they struck the town...

I think only Irene might have been able to save Clare without killing those bandits inside 3 seconds since she possesses the nessacary mental fortitude to keep her focus and regin in her will.

Now, if we put Priscilla into this situation - what do you think? Would she have done the same thing that Teresa-sempai did and engage in a mass execution of humans in the name of saving an innocent girl? Would she be frozen because of the sheer damage to her 'justice code'?

[Fenrir_valindri]

It is quite hard to tell, her moral code would have indeed been destroyed, but it is hard to tell what would have happened after that. She could have well done what Teresa did.

[Tempest35]

Dang you Fenrir, you ALWAYS have to give my mind seeds for stories to write and I have enough of them! ><;;
:weakly shakes fist:

I believe Priscilla would have done exactly the same thing - she has the 'little girl' complex about her and she would have killed all the bandits and then cried her eyes out because of it.

[Valduran]

Don't you dare get off track Tempest! I need to read more of your current Raki story! :frustrated:

Yes, Priscilla definately would have done the same thing. That's why Priscilla was a fool for not questioning Teresa's reasonings, did she really imagine Teresa was just killing people randomly for fun or profit? If I was sent to execute someone who didn't act unreasonable or attack me on sight I most certainly would question their motives before attacking.

(Hmm, I wonder...are we gonna get slapped by the mod again for straying too far into Teresa territory? >.<)

[chibamonster]

Fenrir_valindri has me rethinking my Teresa! I had to double check what justice meant. Whenever the discussion is about a single word I always get confused :D. It's like when you say a word so many times it doesn't even sound like a word any more. It happened to me with the word "what" once. I thought, "man that sounds funny, is that really even a word?" It happens from time to time, especially when I am watching the news and they say something over and over... It is almost like a zen meditation of transcending language or something.

Justice may not be the best word to describe Teresa but I do think she had good intentions and a solid understanding of life both inside and out of the organization. I started writing out more of my ramblings on Teresa's mentality and change along with what her morale code was and how she stuck to it. But I realized that if I posted it in this thread it would probably get deleted. I am still afraid of that happening.

Really I'd like to go over the finer points of her life as she really is what drew me to claymore. Maybe I'll post it in the manga thread or something. I think Priscilla would have had a very difficult time dealing with chibi clare, especially if things turned badly like they did for Teresa. She probably would have had another break down and gone nuts on them right there. I think most claymores would have.

[Tempest35]

Oh, I think we'll get spanked...don't worry. :heh:

[NoSanninWa]

I think I'll let it alone since it wasn't a long digression. However, if it reoccurs then it will be delete city. ;)

[Anima]

I had to continue the Teresa-Priscilla debate so I posted it in another topic: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1347271#post1347271 :)

[chibamonster]

You know, this thread might be useful again if the allowed topics are broadened out a little bit. There are a lot of interesting things currently being discussed that are not the Teresa vs. Priscilla battle; Priscilla as a villain, Priscilla's future and speculation about what she is doing now, and Priscilla's state of mind. Since this thread is dead anyway and apparently doomed to be buried down with the episode discussions it might be worth a shot. At least this way the random bits and pieces that pop up everywhere would have an appropriate location. I feel like there is a lot of room to discuss Priscilla outside of her relationship to Isley since he is so enigmatic and we know so little about him.

[hell88]

Priscilla and Isley probably get it on every night, they just don't act like it, and thats all I got say about that relationship.

[khryoleoz]

Priscilla and Isley probably get it on every night, they just don't act like it, and thats all I got say about that relationship.
I don't think Priss would be attracted to a loser whom she defeated. Priss is more likely to have a sibling complex. As she probably projects that identity onto Raki, it is they who would be getting it on every night. Oniiiiii-chan!

[Defiled one]

I don't think Priss would be attracted to a loser whom she defeated. Priss is more likely to have a sibling complex. As she probably projects that identity onto Raki, it is they who would be getting it on every night. Oniiiiii-chan!

Actually, that`s just about it. Priscilla has an issue for her real brother since he saved her from an Youma, probably the main reason for her "Oniiii-chan" fetish. It´s a trauma.
Probably why she wants to sleep besides him, to feel protected from the "Youma" but even I, the Priscilla expert, have some doubts. I know that "Awakened" do have intercourse and some, with humans. So Priscilla, might be after something but it´s a suspicion...need more sauce.:rolleyes:

[hell88]

I was reading a fanfic of when Clare finally found Raki and he was married to Priscilla and they have kids and Isley was training there kids, I started to wonder but if that really is what's going to happen in the manga it would really throw the story off.

[BishounoTeresa]

My guess is that Priscilla scares the shit out of Isley! so that's why he doesn't want to get on her bad side, and grants her every wish, but he is smart and knows that if he is nice to her that guarantees his survival cuz she won't kill him, but also he can manipulate her by being on her good side. he is not doing anything for her sake, he is doing it for himself now that he can use Priscilla's power, and if he takes care of her, he knows she will protect him, just like when Riful showed up but got scared of Prisc. Due to her mental state Prisc is easy to manipulate and a smart ass like Isley knows that and heis doing it, using her, but I don't think they're lovers or anything, Prisc has the behaviour of a child and Isley doesn't seems to be attracted to her in any other way than just to use her as puppet for his schemes

[hell88]

Yeah I think I know how Isley might die now, it makes sence. Priscilla will eventually find out that her family is dead and Isley was using her this whole time, then she'll get pissed off and kill him, then she'll probably run off with Raki afterwards.

[Defiled one]

My guess is that Priscilla scares the shit out of Isley! so that's why he doesn't want to get on her bad side, and grants her every wish, but he is smart and knows that if he is nice to her that guarantees his survival cuz she won't kill him, but also he can manipulate her by being on her good side. he is not doing anything for her sake, he is doing it for himself now that he can use Priscilla's power, and if he takes care of her, he knows she will protect him, just like when Riful showed up but got scared of Prisc. Due to her mental state Prisc is easy to manipulate and a smart ass like Isley knows that and heis doing it, using her, but I don't think they're lovers or anything, Prisc has the behaviour of a child and Isley doesn't seems to be attracted to her in any other way than just to use her as puppet for his schemes

Well, I always thought he was..well, gay. :rolleyes: I mean before Priscilla, Rigardo was always there and, I don´t know. Not joking.

[hell88]

Well, I always thought he was..well, gay. :rolleyes: I mean before Priscilla, Rigardo was always there and, I don´t know. Not joking.

Yeah now that I think about it, now that Rigaldo is dead he probably has other reasons for letting Raki stay with Priscilla.:twitch:

[Anima]

Well, I always thought he was..well, gay. :rolleyes: I mean before Priscilla, Rigardo was always there and, I don´t know. Not joking.
It's amusing how homosexuality keeps coming up like that. Just because a warrior choses the second best warrior after him as an assistant doesn't mean he is gay :\

Even after Priscilla joined Isley, Rigardo was still the one in charge of doing warfare. Priscilla is nothing but a puppet in Isley's hand IMO. Even if he took her along fearing for his own life after that northern fight, he did it well to have the upper hand in the AO force race.

[Defiled one]

I don´t know that, but it came true the fact of awakened having intercourse and I was one of the few that supported that theory.
I´m only insinuating and giving my opinion, I have yet to possess more solid facts. For now, it´s easier to say that Priscilla likes Raki than saying that Isley, is gay.

[BishounoTeresa]

I think Prisc doesn't like Raki in that way, rather that he kinda reminds her of her family, I think she had an older brother who was kinda the same age as Raki, and her human form is that of a little girl, so she is thinking of him a her brother who was killed by her dad

[Zsych]

I kinda wonder if Isley might not have been made a Claymore when he was fairly old(since these were the early times). I half-suspect that he sees a lost daughter in Priscilla.
Isley having been some kind of ruler before becoming a Claymore would probably also add to his character some.

[Defiled one]

Isley having been some kind of ruler before becoming a Claymore would probably also add to his character some.

If, Isley proves to be of noble blood, like a count or a king. Then, that alone represented an extreme menace to the Org, it´s more than an Abyssal menace, he could socially defy the order and cause riots...exactly what he did. Knowledge, is power and Isley has plenty of it.

[Simley]

Priscilla may deserve redemption as much as the next person, actually probably MORE...considering she never did anything sadistic while she was human/claymore like Ophelia.

But Ophelia didn't kill anyone we care about ;)

actually, she directly caused the death of Irene...if she hadn't been hellbent on killing clare, Irene would not have needed to release her yoki...but then again, clare would never have gotten irene's arm if opehlia wasn't crazy...then she would still be pretty weak and die in pieta

does anyone else believe if Teresa had ever awakened, she would be the coolest AB ever? I mean, she seemed like a good person especially with Clare's influence. What if when she became an AB (maybe fighting an experienced Priscilla 20 years in the future, she would awaken) and then become like Blade....even if she is an AB, she would hunt AB's anyways. :) lol

and it feels like to me, that Clare doesn't really hate priscilla either. When Priscilla awakened, Clare said she couldn't hate the beast that had killed Teresa, she hated herself for being overcome with fear. which is why she often goes over her limit...she doesn't ever want to feel the fear she did that day.

[hell88]

actually, she directly caused the death of Irene...if she hadn't been hellbent on killing clare, Irene would not have needed to release her yoki...but then again, clare would never have gotten irene's arm if opehlia wasn't crazy...then she would still be pretty weak and die in pieta

does anyone else believe if Teresa had ever awakened, she would be the coolest AB ever? I mean, she seemed like a good person especially with Clare's influence. What if when she became an AB (maybe fighting an experienced Priscilla 20 years in the future, she would awaken) and then become like Blade....even if she is an AB, she would hunt AB's anyways. :) lol

and it feels like to me, that Clare doesn't really hate priscilla either. When Priscilla awakened, Clare said she couldn't hate the beast that had killed Teresa, she hated herself for being overcome with fear. which is why she often goes over her limit...she doesn't ever want to feel the fear she did that day.

I don't think Clare would have made it to Pieta without Irene's arm. Ophelia would have killed her after, and if Clare beat Ophelia without it she would have gotten destroyed really fast against Dauf and Riful later on.

I think if Teresa awakened she would be more powerful than Easley. But she would probably be a good awakened being, it would be easier for her to protect Clare, and she would probably still kill yoma that are in a village.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Being an Awakened Being completely changes your mentality, so if Teresa awakened the only way she would be a "good" awakened being is if she ended up like Riful, who is actually quite nice for a man-eating monster that believes we are all cattle.

After the initial blood-bath that would happen after Teresa's awakening of course, she would probably be just as hungry as Priscilla was.

[koffy]

Hmm maybe this hunger is becouse of they never feed normally. (A silly idea :) -> The yoma part of their body need food but never get it -> In the first moment after awakeing they cant imagine any other thing like food, in this case human flesh/guts. If its already discussed then sorry..)

[Fenrir_valindri]

I think their newely transformed body needs food from all the energy expended transforming, which would explain why older ABs don't seem to go into feeding frenzies, while younger ABs do. (The one Ophelia killed, Priscilla)

[hell88]

I was thinking that when an awaken being gets older it can start to train itself to get used to not being hungry for guts all the time.

[Tempest35]

Well let's see, normal Youma eat once a week or so (to avoid suspiscion and the like). The Rabona one was special since it was using its power to mimic a corpse and apparently it was taxing since it fed nearly every night. So, the more an AB runs around in it's true form, the more it will eat as oppose to an AB who manages to stay in human form (energy saving mode) virtually all the time. But once they do feed, it's probably a lot, as with the case of Priscilla and Isley first finding Raki - the two apparently leveled the entire town and killed/ate everyone in it.

[Fenrir_valindri]

I had under the impression that Isley's army had passed through their first, and Isley and Priscilla were just passing through at their own pace.

I think their hunger curbs after some time, as even Isley thought Priscilla's eating was excessive (maybe to fuel her power?)

[hell88]

If all Priscilla has to do to get stronger is eat flesh, then she must be really strong by now. I feel bad for whoever has to battle her next.

[Fenrir_valindri]

I ment more along the line of storing up food for a good work out later on, kind of how fat can be burned for energy.

So since Priscilla has a large amount of Yoki, she needed to eat more to effectively "pack it in" so to speak.

[hell88]

You know what that made me think of (don't really know why) but what if Priscilla is letting young girls go, so that they can kill her like she killed the yoma that ate her family.

[Tempest35]

I had under the impression that Isley's army had passed through their first, and Isley and Priscilla were just passing through at their own pace.

I think their hunger curbs after some time, as even Isley thought Priscilla's eating was excessive (maybe to fuel her power?)

That makes it sound as if Isley was herding them or something...:heh:

It would explain their clothing, although them rummaging through the remains of the town and picked what they wanted doesn't seem that far-fetched either...

...but wait a minute...What if Priscilla has no idea that she's an AB? I know it's kinda...:twitch: but it's a crackpot theory at best anyway.
Most of her memory that involves anything past that fateful night has been repressed. She doesn't know about youma - period. She doesn't know about Claymores - period. If she doesn't know about youma, then she surely doesn't know that youma eat human entrails. What if, thanks to that, she doesn't know that she's suppose to eat humans to begin with?

I know, for one mixed with youma, when they Awaken, they pick up on the youma's diet as well based on cellular instinct...but it would surely throw a wrench in somewhere if my lil crackpot theory actually occured. :heh:

[chibamonster]

Ophelia did not realize that she had awakened until she saw her own reflection. The tail, bladed hands and sudden height difference coupled with an intense hunger for human entrails did not do it for her. Priscilla might really not have put it all together even if she does eat humans. She seems a little messed up in the head anyway.

[FateAnomaly]

Priscilla is in denial. Thats why she is in that mental state. She refuses to accept that she is a AB but she eats guts anyway. All ABs have a compulsion to eat guts but whether guts provide any extra nutrient is not known. Since there is nothing special about human guts i say that it is pretty much just instincts at work.
They won't die if they don't eat guts and they don't gain extra power from doing so.

[Simley]

Priscilla is in denial. Thats why she is in that mental state. She refuses to accept that she is a AB but she eats guts anyway. All ABs have a compulsion to eat guts but whether guts provide any extra nutrient is not known. Since there is nothing special about human guts i say that it is pretty much just instincts at work.
They won't die if they don't eat guts and they don't gain extra power from doing so.

human guts have an excellent taste to them...and it quenches their hunger for the most part...so it's probably high nutrients :) kinda like HxH where the people with high power levels are more yummy to the ants.

[tenken627]

It seems like only newly awakened ABs have the strong urge for fresh guts.

You never see ABs like Isley, Rilful, Rigardo, Dauf and the many other ABs from the North talk much about feeding on guts. It actually seems like they are more intent about the kill than any type of feeding.

When an AB is newly awakened on the other hand, they talk about guts, even though they may not realize that they are talking about it. Ophelia talked about guts before she even looked at her own reflection and found out about her awakening.

Priscilla is a different case like others above have stated. She is not right in the head, and returned to her childlike human form. The only words from her own mouth seem to be about her family, or more like her family on that one fateful night.

Even when Priscilla was feeding, she seemed to be reenacting her father eating the guts of her family. As long as she's in this state, she'll always probably have a strong urge to feed. Her mind post-Awakening probably will never mature, due to her pre-Awakening mind. She'll never have the intelligence of the other 3 Abyssals or other ABs to curb her appetite, but she'll always have her great brute strength.

The same would probably be true also if Miata were to ever Awaken.


Or maybe older ABs just do it more classy and make a sandwich or something.

[Simley]

It seems like only newly awakened ABs have the strong urge for fresh guts.

You never see ABs like Isley, Rilful, Rigardo, Dauf and the many other ABs from the North talk much about feeding on guts. It actually seems like they are more intent about the kill than any type of feeding.


well yeah, but I suppose that's because those are the more high class AB's...they definately need to eat, Riful mentions how boring it can be, one of the activities she mentions is eating...so, probably though not so blatant about it, even the big 3 love eating tasty guts :) I would imagine especially Luciella, her body was built to eat up meat. The convo between her and Isley was hillarious :uhoh: about her eating his...meat

the sandwich idea sounds good to me, pile on a multiple layers of guts, perhaps add some seasoning...grill to medium rare...and voila! a masterpiece. simply scrumptious :)

[tenken627]

well yeah, but I suppose that's because those are the more high class AB's...they definately need to eat, Riful mentions how boring it can be, one of the activities she mentions is eating...so, probably though not so blatant about it, even the big 3 love eating tasty guts :) I would imagine especially Luciella, her body was built to eat up meat. The convo between her and Isley was hillarious :uhoh: about her eating his...meat

the sandwich idea sounds good to me, pile on a multiple layers of guts, perhaps add some seasoning...grill to medium rare...and voila! a masterpiece. simply scrumptious :)

Priscilla acts more on her impulses than any rational thought.

But, yeah they all eat guts. No matter the class. It's just that the urge to eat is greater in a newly awakened. As an AB gets older they probably eat less guts and probably in a more refined way.

Like a sandwich. With some banana peppers for an extra kick.

[Simley]

But, yeah they all eat guts. No matter the class. It's just that the urge to eat is greater in a newly awakened. As an AB gets older they probably eat less guts and probably in a more refined way.


the more and more I think about it, it seems like awakened beings are like vampires. In all the vampire lore, they always mention how new vampires are overwhelmed by the desire to feed. And then the older vampires usually have more control, and can reduce their need to feed for long periods of time. I think it's brilliant the way Yagi has integrated lore from different stories into one story.

[Fenrir_valindri]

The Vampire comparison is a good one.

As for Priscilla not realizing she was an AB, that is entirely possible considering the strange way she was acting at the start of ES 3, although later on she ceases wiping out towns after Isley gives her the hoof, which is when she started acting like a child again.

Human Guts is also were our Ki is supposed to be stored, so it is quite possible that Yoma are based of the chi vampires of Asia, except they get the chi(Ki) in a much more direct way, eating its focal point.

I also don't think we know whether or not ABs NEED to eat human guts or not, but judging by the overwhelming hunger they have, they need to.

[chibamonster]

I just had the funnies image of Isley and Priscilla having Raki prepare meals for them with the meat they bring in from town.

Isley: Wow, that barbecue sauce was fantastic Raki!
Priscilla: you are such a good cook! And so Cyu~te!
Raki: It did taste pretty good. At first I did not know how to prepare this stuff, but now it is like second nature! To think I had never had anything this tasty before! Too bad that was the last of it. It still surprises me how much you two eat...
Priscilla: Whaaa~?
Isley: Guess it is time to go do the shopping. Anything else you need?
Raki: *takes off apron and unfolds shopping list* I could use some more Cajun seasoning and some lemon pepper.
Isley: I swear I just picked some up. But great cooking requires great ingredients and I will not stand in your way to perfection! Toodaloo kiddles! I'm off!
Raki (thinking): I am the luckiest guy on earth. I just know I will find Clare some day with great friends like these...
-Elsewhere-
Terrified Villager: Sweet mother of mercy! By all that is holy what are you!?! Wait... are those shopping bags?
Isley (AO form): Umm, yes they are. Do you perchance know of a spice shop in this vicinity?
Terrified Villager: Uhh... spp ... spoons and spice is that way... (points)
Isley (AO form): Thank you, I have a tendency to get lost. And (checking list and comparing with terrified villager) Hey! It is your lucky day. You are not on this weeks menu. Do you know where I could find a healthy middle aged woman about yay big and about yay wide?
Vengeful Villager: My ex wives place is that way. (points)

[koffy]

Hahaha you are crazy Chiba :p:D its just made me laugh, thx:bow:.

[hell88]

I just had the funnies image of Isley and Priscilla having Raki prepare meals for them with the meat they bring in from town.

Isley: Wow, that barbecue sauce was fantastic Raki!
Priscilla: you are such a good cook! And so Cyu~te!
Raki: It did taste pretty good. At first I did not know how to prepare this stuff, but now it is like second nature! To think I had never had anything this tasty before! Too bad that was the last of it. It still surprises me how much you two eat...
Priscilla: Whaaa~?
Isley: Guess it is time to go do the shopping. Anything else you need?
Raki: *takes off apron and unfolds shopping list* I could use some more Cajun seasoning and some lemon pepper.
Isley: I swear I just picked some up. But great cooking requires great ingredients and I will not stand in your way to perfection! Toodaloo kiddles! I'm off!
Raki (thinking): I am the luckiest guy on earth. I just know I will find Clare some day with great friends like these...
-Elsewhere-
Terrified Villager: Sweet mother of mercy! By all that is holy what are you!?! Wait... are those shopping bags?
Isley (AO form): Umm, yes they are. Do you perchance know of a spice shop in this vicinity?
Terrified Villager: Uhh... spp ... spoons and spice is that way... (points)
Isley (AO form): Thank you, I have a tendency to get lost. And (checking list and comparing with terrified villager) Hey! It is your lucky day. You are not on this weeks menu. Do you know where I could find a healthy middle aged woman about yay big and about yay wide?
Vengeful Villager: My ex wives place is that way. (points)

HAHAHAHAHA Does Raki even know what kind of meets he's cooking.:heh:

[Simley]

it's like Hannibal all over again...all his guests were so amazed at the taste...if only they knew it was brains they were eating

good post chiba :)

[Defiled one]

I think if Teresa awakened she would be more powerful than Easley. But she would probably be a good awakened being, it would be easier for her to protect Clare, and she would probably still kill yoma that are in a village.

I can´t judge any power levels but I can say she would be serious competition. She would take the South, whom, at that time, had no owner.:rolleyes: I really don´t think she would be a good person though. Teresa enjoyed bullying humans as a Claymore and, by her encounters with thiefs...I`d say she had bad experiences. :rolleyes: "Which shall be kept hidden inside the darkest regions of my soul"

About the killing youma part, all Abyssal do that...Because Youmas are competion and are noisy as hell thus, bringing Claymores. Territory you know. She protects the villages from Youma but there´s nothing to protect the villagers from her.:uhoh: Why do you think Isley and Rigald openly went to villages without being afraid? "Something shown in Extra Manga chapters with Priscilla"

About the Clare part. :( It would just, horribly deviate from normality. Awakened mental state, especially their feelings, intensify to extremes and Crimson Agatha was a fine example of that. Teresa is not above nature.
The aftermath of it...also shall be kept secret inside my deviant and evil soul, near soccer section :rolleyes:

That is all, you may continue.

[hell88]

I wonder why there hasn't been anyone to take over the east, I mean surely there has to be an awaken being strong enouph for that kind of control, or mabye there is and we don't know about it yet. I was aslo wondering if Isley and Priscilla are in the south now, who's in the north, I think Isley might have a strong suborinate watching the north for him while he's gone.

And yeah I hope more extra manga chapters are made they are very intersting.

[Negativedark]

I don't think the north is considered important anymore since there are no humans living there. Any awakened biengs there are probably weaklings that Isley didn't consider worth any effort whatsoever.

[Defiled one]

The East is the Org territory, if you wan´t an Abyssal then, it´s the Twins.

[hell88]

I forgot the Org. was in the east. But mabye if Beth loses control of Alicia, Alicia will destroy the Org. and take over the east. Thus making her a new abysal one.

[Fenrir_valindri]

I am hoping Riful's plot is to disrupt the soul-link between Alicia/Beth and forcing them both to be her puppets. :D

[hell88]

If Riful disrupts the soul-link she might try to kill Alicia because Alicia probably has the power to rival her, but I think she would awaken Beth and keep her.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Beth has the same strength as Alicia, and they are both near-mindless weapons, Riful needs at least 2 Abyssal level ABs on her side to match Isley's side, and Alicia and Beth are it as far as we know.

[chibamonster]

There is also the issue that their souls have merged and it really might be like they are the same person at this point. Although this is just me, but I do not think Riful is planning a full scale attack. That does not seem like her style. She would not go into a gun fight unless she knew she would come out on top. Even with Alicia and Beth she would need to fight like crazy, either against Priscilla with their help or holding back Isley. Unless the youki manipulator was going to control both Alicia and Beth. Someone who can manipulate youki even a little seems like they would be hard pressed to control a soul link as it is the most difficult form of manipulation we have seen. I am not sure what her plan is, but it seems like it is a subtle one.

[hell88]

Does Riful even know of Alicia and Beth? If she doesn't and ends up fighting them she might get killed.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Riful at the very least knows about Alicia, as she sensed her back during the Witch's Maw, and she made a comment about the Org making a warrior that is equal to the Abyssal Ones.

Disrupting the Soul-link of Alicia and Beth sounds like a brilliant idea for Riful, as she said, if it doesn't give her the power advantage, it will at the very least make the power balance even again.

(3 Abyssal Ones vs Priscilla + Isley)

Heck, if she knows about Miata, she might try to capture her too.

[hell88]

I think disrupting the soul-link could be very bad, Alicia and Beth could both go crazy and Beth might awaken and they would both go rampaging.

[tenken627]

There is also the issue that their souls have merged and it really might be like they are the same person at this point. Although this is just me, but I do not think Riful is planning a full scale attack. That does not seem like her style. She would not go into a gun fight unless she knew she would come out on top. Even with Alicia and Beth she would need to fight like crazy, either against Priscilla with their help or holding back Isley. Unless the youki manipulator was going to control both Alicia and Beth. Someone who can manipulate youki even a little seems like they would be hard pressed to control a soul link as it is the most difficult form of manipulation we have seen. I am not sure what her plan is, but it seems like it is a subtle one.

Riful does seem to be more of the manipulative type instead of brute force aggressive. And she did say that she found something "interesting" that might make her the superior force to deal with or at least even out all her disadvantages against Isley.

But, she says she needs either Galatea or Clare as her allies since they can manipulate yoki a little. Preferably Galatea.

I'm not sure if this could include Tabitha, who can sense yoki well but I don't know about actually manipulating it or if sensing is all Riful needs.

Riful also said that she's not asking for Clare to actually fight. (I'm not sure about this either, it seems from other discussions on this forum, the manga translations I read are not altogether accurate sometimes.)

Using yoki-manipulation on the soul link between Alicia and Beth might benefit Riful against the organization. But, I am not sure what she means to do against the Isley-Priscilla combination to give her greater power against them.

[tenken627]

Beth has the same strength as Alicia, and they are both near-mindless weapons, Riful needs at least 2 Abyssal level ABs on her side to match Isley's side, and Alicia and Beth are it as far as we know.

That actually makes perfect sense. Use an awakened Galatea or Clare to manipulate the soul link of Alicia/Beth into weapons against Isley/Priscilla.

Without Alicia/Beth, the organization loses much of their power, unless they have something else in their sleeves.

[hell88]

I think Riful would need Galatea and Clare to control Alicia and Beth. Galatea could control Alicia and Clare could control Beth. But I highly dought Galatea and Clare would join Riful without a fight, or mabye if they see her they can just run out of there like the fab4 did while keeping there yoki down so Riful couldn't find them.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Alicia and Beth are basically puppets for the Org, but if they suddenly awakened they would hunger for guts and be largely unintelligent, thus Riful could step in and manipulate them (directly, not Yoki-wise) at this point and gain two Abyssal Level beings on her side.

Controlling the Soul-link would be impossible, as it requires perfect Yoki-aligntment, something only Alicia and Beth are capapble of.

[hell88]

If Riful doesn't use yoki to manipulate them, because really I don't think they would listen to her. She would have use force to get them to join. Or mabye the only thing they might listen to is if she says something like I feel your pain we are alike, or something like that then mabye they would join her.

[chibamonster]

I know that Riful knows about Alicia, but how much does she know about the soul link? Did Luciella sit down and explain the fundamentals of it to her? They settled in different parts of the world and seemed to not bother one another. Without a working knowledge of the soul link she would have no idea it was possible to manipulate them. So far there are 5 people that we know of who understand the details of the soul link in the series aside from the MiB; Raphaela, Luciella, Alicia, Beth and Galatea who saw it done. Alicia and Beth are a no go, and Raphaela and Luciella are unaccounted for. Galatea is a nun. Miria might know about it too but she's been up north chillin' in some hot springs.

While we know the soul link is somewhat unstable, which WILL have a huge impact on the story in the future, how does Riful know? Alicia was made in secret, and even though Riful sensed her when she did not see the soul link or have the details explained to her. Miria found out about Alicia and Beth's completion and did not even mention before hand what they were to the ghosts. Galatea did not know Alicia and Beth were even twins until she saw them. What are the chances that Riful has inside information on them?

So the most important thing would be how did Riful find out about the workings of the soul link? I do not think deductive reasoning works in this case. Riful had never seen anyone come back from their limit until Clare and her friends busted up the cave. Alicia's ability was intentionally kept as a secret until her completion. Riful had sensed Alicia before and not realized the threat she held.

Also, since the organization knows more about Alicia and Beth's soul link than anyone else, what are the chances they would leave such a gaping hole for someone to exploit? They knew a weak heart like Rapheala's resulted in Luciella's awakening so they took it out of the equation. They knew that difference in personality might play a difference so they got rid of that too. If Alicia and Beth are extremely susceptible to youki manipulation, what are the chances that the organization will just let it be? Alicia and Beth are the most important weapon they have and have been trained for years and years. They know about all of Alicia and Beth's weaknesses long before Riful ever would. Notice that they had Galatea with them even though she was not needed for battle. I do not think they ever have Alicia and Beth travel alone. They may not travel at all. While she could have developed a plan for the soul link it seems like a far shot unless she has some inside information and an ingenious plan.

Riful herself would have to hold Alicia off while the other person did the manipulation which is a huge risk. Add to that there would most likely be some tough claymores sitting around Beth. The youki manipulation we have seen has been at very close range so the manipulator would not be sitting on a cliff somewhere either. Duff might be able to do something but if the plan failed Riful dies. I do not think taking over a soul link would be easy for the manipulator either who also has a different personality from the twins. There is the risk that Alicia and Beth are not friendly when they awaken if something went wrong. That leaves 2 Abyssals staring Riful in the face.

Anything is possible though, and I really want to know what Riful has in mind. I just think her plan is aimed directly at Priscilla as Riful is much more manipulative than confrontational. The alicia and beth plan would be relying on 2 direct confrontations with Abyssal level opponents that Riful herself would have to lead. Remember what happened when Isley fought Luciella? Riful came down to kill him just because it was a great chance. A battle between abyssals would get his attention. If Isley showed up she does not have a priscilla to defend her.

[koffy]

Agree with Chiba, there is no way that Riful know what soul link is, I also think this manipulte soul link idea is..wrong. Interrupting the twins during soul link and make them awaken is more thinkable.

I dont know what is Riful planning with that yoki manipulateing thing but Im really waiting for it (if it happens anytime). As she told to Clare if she joins then she no need to fight, I guess then her job would be increase or decrease someone's yoki. Anyway thats just my opinion.

[hell88]

If Clare joined Riful she wouldn't have to fight but Riful would probably still make her awaken.

[Simley]

if alicia/beth becoming awakened beings, I don't know what kind of personality they would have. As claymores, they are emotionless, with only the very basic thoughts, and only follow orders. If they ever lost control and awakened, I would imagine they would be mindless, but powerful creatures. Would anyone be able to tame them? I doubt it....

as for priscilla, I too think Riful plans to directly confront the priscilla threat, like others have mentioned, how would she know about soul link? Unless she knows about it from way back when Luciela first awakened. that's the only way I could imagine she would know about it.

[hell88]

The best way for Riful to kill Isley/Priscilla is probably to do it while they are in there sleep.

[chibamonster]

I agree Simley, I think every awakened being is different and if the one thing they remembered was that Riful attacked their twin sister that would not be good. Awakened beings obviously do not all get along with each other so Alicia and Beth as allies would be a huge risk. Controlling them like puppets is a good idea and all, but a soul link is possible because as the name implies their souls are linked.. Without that I do not think there is any promise that even an AB youki manipulator would be able to do anything but Galatea like tricks to another AB.

Even if Riful did try to get them in their sleep she has no guarantee she could win against Isley let alone Priscilla. Especially because awakened beings can sense each other and a sneak attack would be very difficult. If Riful knows Isley better than anyone what are the chances that likewise isley knows riful very well? AB's do not die easily. Luciella was only vulnerable to Raphaela because she was on the brink of death had used too much of her youki and was unable to maintain her awakened form. Much like Ophelia saying that Clare had to kill her quickly or she would regenerate.

[tenken627]

I also agree. While Riful is aware of the organization and Alicia, she seems much more concerned with the Isley/Priscilla duo. Whatever her plan may be, it will be directed at them and not the organization.

She wasn't considering allying with Luciela to take out the organization, she was considering it to take out Priscilla. Isley/Priscilla is the immediate threat right now to Riful. Maybe after taking them out, Riful will turn her attention to the organization.

Also, if my manga translation is accurate, Riful only mentioned that the organization made ONE Claymore strong enough to rival Abyssals, and might be considered a new Abyssal. No mention was made of Beth. It could still mean that Riful is aware of Beth and the soul link, but there is not enough information to assume that is the case. It seems like Riful knows that the organization has created a powerful being, but that is the extent of her knowledge.

Like others said earlier, she is more preoccupied with Isley. It was Isley who killed Luciela and who is the most likely immediate source of danger for Riful.

It seems that Isley is also aware of Alicia/Beth, or at least Alicia. He probably knows only as much as Riful. He sent 11 ABs from Pieta to the East as cannon fodder. He had to know that the organization had something powerful enough to wipe out those ABs. Most likely the ABs that he sent West to Riful and East to the organization was just a diversionary force so he could attack Luciela.

[lsley]

-Riful and Luciela were allys, so theres a huge possibility that she told her about soullink.

-Why should Riful mention Beth? The MIB only spoke to Alicia, so theres a possibility that Beth wan't even there, another thing is that there's a possibility that Alicia was trained for fighting --> is strong, and Beth was just made for soul link --> has a strong mind.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Riful and Lucalea were not allies, they were just as much enemies as Isley/Riful and Isley/Lucalea were.

Isley attacked the South to make sure they DIDN'T become allies, as they would actually be a threat to Priscilla then.

Alicia and Beth are supposed to have the same strength, just like Raphaela and Lucalea did, one of them is just trained to do the Soul-Link instead of awaken, it is possible they could even switch roles.

[lsley]

Riful and Lucalea were not allies, they were just as much enemies as Isley/Riful and Isley/Lucalea were.

Isley attacked the South to make sure they DIDN'T become allies, as they would actually be a threat to Priscilla then.

Isley sais that it's too late, so I don't think that riful was just passing by, rather knowing the time of the fight and planning to fight together with Luciela, the fact Luciela started before Riful came could be that she doesn't like groups, how she stated before the fight with Isley.
Or do you have better traces to rely on?


Alicia and Beth are supposed to have the same strength, just like Raphaela and Lucalea did, one of them is just trained to do the Soul-Link instead of awaken, it is possible they could even switch roles.
I stated a possbility, all I know is that we don't know If Raphaela and Luciela had the same strength, if they had, we don't know if the org could have thaught that this was a mistake so now they trained one a little more for the soul link and the other a bit more for fighting. After all in the manga the MIB in the dark just asked Alicia if double strain on her body is all right, he didn't ask beth, at least we didn't see him asking her.

[shelter]

Isley sais that it's too late, so I don't think that riful was just passing by, rather knowing the time of the fight and planning to fight together with Luciela, the fact Luciela started before Riful came could be that she doesn't like groups, how she stated before the fight with Isley.
Or do you have better traces to rely on?


I think the more likely reason for why Luciela started the fight first, was that Islay had specifically come south, on the pretext of following Priscilla's "whims" to claim the southern lands. In Extra Scene 3, if I can remember correctly, Isley kind of "agreed" with Priscilla to go south. A possible cover-up for his territorial ambitions, I guess.

And, again, the more likely reason for Riful arriving late: she probably wanted to mop up whoever was the victor, knowing he/she would be too exhausted to fight here.

But, well, as we know already Priscilla is Isley's own trump card.

[hell88]

Didn't Isley want to kill off either Riful or Luciella anyway, because he didn't want them to team up to beat him.

[Simley]

Isley sais that it's too late, so I don't think that riful was just passing by, rather knowing the time of the fight and planning to fight together with Luciela, the fact Luciela started before Riful came could be that she doesn't like groups, how she stated before the fight with Isley.
Or do you have better traces to rely on?


sometimes I wonder if people skip parts of the manga...The reason Riful went there was to take advantage of the situation, she knew Luciella and Isley were fighting, she was going to finish off whoever she found, and she thought it might be Isley. She went to finish him off. Riful then figured out Priscilla is at LEAST twice as powerful as her, and it would require an alliance with Luceilla just to break even against Priscilla.

So when Isley said it was too late to riful, he meant now that he had eliminated Luciella, there was no way Priscilla could be defeated since it would require 2 AO just to challange her. Following that train of logic, Luciella and Riful would have needed to be partners or allies against her, but now that was no longer possible. In chapter 72, read from page 11 at the bottom on, Clare asks didn't Riful think of taking the opportunity to take Isley's head, and Riful clearly explains what happened. Isley is brilliant, he anticipated what it would take to beat Priscilla, and made the move to ensure it never happened. Just one look allowed Riful to know the extent of Priscilla's power, I imagine if she had seen Priscilla earlier, she would have made a point to make an alliance with Luciella.

[Negativedark]

They've probably read the whole thing, just that after a while they forget exactly what was said, or little details, and thus are slightly off on things, just like right now.

Anyways if you look at the lands, Isley got one of the worst ones. The north is snow bound, and a cold frontier. It seems to be like inland Alaska, or maby Siberia, and the population isn't to high either. The south seems much nicer, maybe a Medditerainan climate, with a much higher population. I figure Isley went north because he didn't want to risk it against Luccelea, and even if he won there would be no guarentee that Riful or the org wouldn't take advantage of his weakened state to kill him. He went north to bide his time and maybe he didn't mind too much at first. But when the opportunety to get something better emerged, he went for it.

[tenken627]

Maybe. I always had the impression that Isley came from the North in the first place. Like his homeland. Isley of Alphonse. Maybe I am wrong.

He did state that Priscilla and Raki were southerners, which implies that he is not.

And Isley was the first Abyssal, from the 1st ever generation of Claymores. He would have had his choice of lands except for the East.

[Negativedark]

Well when he first awakened there were no other abyssals, so really other than the east, all the lands were his. Then Riful awakened. Apparently neither of the two was willing to risk it in a fight with the others. Riful got the west, and Isley still had the rest. And we know from the generations that there was a large gap in time between Riful's awakening and Luceliea's. But when Lucelea did awaken, they had to redraw the maps. Isley states in his fight with Lucelea that they made an agreement so they wouldn't ruin the southern land, since they both coveted it. He went north at the time because it wasn't worth the risk to fight at that time. He may well have come from the north, and as we have seen Isley is not immune to Nostagia, but he did the awakened equivelent of salting the earth behind him when he had all the towns wiped out. Isley could have kept the north if he wanted it, but he didn't

[tenken627]

I think Isley still holds the North, even after taking the South. There is still a large contingent of Awakened Beings in the North. Rigaldo is dead, but Isley probably left someone in command of the North in his absence.

[Negativedark]

But now no people. There's nothing off awakened biengs favorate food there. Also I got the impression that all the awakened who stayed were weaklings that Isley didn't bother to recruit.

[tenken627]

I do think that the North is pretty much decimated, but I don't know if there is absolutely no people. Most cities in the North seem to be deserted, but the series doesn't really show much in terms of geography. We don't know much about the locations of cities or anything. They seem to pop up randomly, with Rabona the Holy City being the only city we see twice in the whole series.

Not that it is a bad thing, since cities don't seem to be much of a consequence in the series. It doesn't seem like there are nations or countries connecting them, just a bunch of city-states or towns dotting the countryside.

I still think the ABs in the North are under Isley's control. ABs don't like to work together, and only under an Abyssal do they seem to form in groups.

[Simley]

well, I'm sure there are still yoma/AB's in the north...remember Clarice and her crew got a request to vanquish some ab's there...which is when we first see the ghost 7 in action. So if there are Ab's or yoma's...then there would have to be a food source right? I figure the north is decimated, but still some people remain.

[lsley]

sometimes I wonder if people skip parts of the manga...The reason Riful went there was to take advantage of the situation, she knew Luciella and Isley were fighting, she was going to finish off whoever she found, and she thought it might be Isley. She went to finish him off. Riful then figured out Priscilla is at LEAST twice as powerful as her, and it would require an alliance with Luceilla just to break even against Priscilla.
ooh, insider information FTW :p
at least write it like an assumption or your thaughts, it's kinda annoying if people KNOW everything better although they just have another solution in mind.



So when Isley said it was too late to riful, he meant now that he had eliminated Luciella, there was no way Priscilla could be defeated since it would require 2 AO just to challange her.
Following that train of logic, Luciella and Riful would have needed to be partners or allies against her, but now that was no longer possible.
you're contradictory :p
If that was how it is he could have said from the beginning: Screw you girls, 1+1=2 ; 2+1=3 ; 3>2

In chapter 72, read from page 11 at the bottom on, Clare asks didn't Riful think of taking the opportunity to take Isley's head, and Riful clearly explains what happened.
It's chapter 71 btw




I don't have a problem with people having an absolute different opinion of what happened or will happen, even if someone writes Riful could be an alien from mars and kill Isley the org and everything with her big laser I don't care as long as it's written: I think you're wrong, it's so and so; and not: You're wrong, its so and so.

-.-

[Negativedark]

I do think that the North is pretty much decimated, but I don't know if there is absolutely no people. Most cities in the North seem to be deserted, but the series doesn't really show much in terms of geography. We don't know much about the locations of cities or anything. They seem to pop up randomly, with Rabona the Holy City being the only city we see twice in the whole series.

Not that it is a bad thing, since cities don't seem to be much of a consequence in the series. It doesn't seem like there are nations or countries connecting them, just a bunch of city-states or towns dotting the countryside.

I still think the ABs in the North are under Isley's control. ABs don't like to work together, and only under an Abyssal do they seem to form in groups.

Things both Claris and Miria said seem to imply that no one lives in the north. Claris asks who sent the request to kill the AB since the north is supposed to be abandoned, an I think Miria mentions how they are the only ones living in the north. I'll admit, I don't know what those ABs are doing there with no one to eat, but they are there. I think one of them even comments on how long it's been since he last ate human flesh. As for the ABs banding together, they're doing it because the org is activly hunting them now. ABs arn't stupid, they can use tactics. Although they should have used better ones in Pieta.

[hell88]

Wasn't the city of Pieta the first city in the north of Alphonse, which means there are more cities in the north and a request must have come from one of them.

[Fenrir_valindri]

ooh, insider information FTW :p
at least write it like an assumption or your thaughts, it's kinda annoying if people KNOW everything better although they just have another solution in mind.


What he is saying IS the case though, Riful clearly stated she went to finish off the survivor, and then discovered Priscilla, who was far stronger then her. She tells Clare that Isley realized that if two AO teamed up, they would be an actual threat to Priscilla.


you're contradictory :p
If that was how it is he could have said from the beginning: Screw you girls, 1+1=2 ; 2+1=3 ; 3>2

Because it is always possible he, or Priscilla, could be seperated for a short amount of time, then the Allied Riful and Lucalea could double team him while Priscilla was away, thus leaving Priscilla alone, or vice-versa, though most likely the former.

It isn't simple math, situational awareness plays a huge part, and pushing everything into his favor is something Isley would do.

It's chapter 71 btw

Yup, it is indeed in chapter 71.

I don't have a problem with people having an absolute different opinion of what happened or will happen, even if someone writes Riful could be an alien from mars and kill Isley the org and everything with her big laser I don't care as long as it's written: I think you're wrong, it's so and so; and not: You're wrong, its so and so.

-.-

Not entirely sure what you mean here, but he was attempting to state that your information was way of course, and not so much as hinted at in the manga.

Wasn't the city of Pieta the first city in the north of Alphonse, which means there are more cities in the north and a request must have come from one of them.

Pieta was the border city actually, as in the first city ENTERING the north, thus the reason the Claymores defended it, because after that city the ABs could just spill into any of the other 3 lands.

[tenken627]

Things both Claris and Miria said seem to imply that no one lives in the north. Claris asks who sent the request to kill the AB since the north is supposed to be abandoned, an I think Miria mentions how they are the only ones living in the north. I'll admit, I don't know what those ABs are doing there with no one to eat, but they are there. I think one of them even comments on how long it's been since he last ate human flesh. As for the ABs banding together, they're doing it because the org is activly hunting them now. ABs arn't stupid, they can use tactics. Although they should have used better ones in Pieta.

You're right. Clarice did mention that the North has been abandoned, and that no humans live there anymore. Nice find. :D

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on the Isley abandoning the North though. I still think those ABs are under his control.

[chibamonster]

I certainly would not want to work under Isley after he sent all the male AB's to their deaths against the organization and Riful. None of the AB's under his command survived because they were just a diversion. It seemed like those 3 were together in response to the organizations change of policy more than because of any higher orders, but that is just what I think. They could work for Isley.

[Defiled one]

I don´t think Isley ever thought the Org had Alicia and Beth when he sent those Awakened. Nevertheless, they served him well.

[tenken627]

I certainly would not want to work under Isley after he sent all the male AB's to their deaths against the organization and Riful. None of the AB's under his command survived because they were just a diversion. It seemed like those 3 were together in response to the organizations change of policy more than because of any higher orders, but that is just what I think. They could work for Isley.

I don't know. I just felt that the reason the organization changed it's policy in the North was that so there would always be a first line of defense against Isley. If there is no human inhabitants in the North, then there is no one to protect there.

It's just an assumption, but I always thought Isley controlled all the ABs in the North. The Northern ABs are the only ones that we know that have organized into groups. We see ABs organized when Isley was gathering his power.

Riful only has Duph. Luciela had no one. None of the ABs in the South and West have organized together that we know of. The most recent AB we see, Agatha, is alone.

[chibamonster]

The funny thing is that the MiB wonder if Isley knows about Alicia themselves. You can see their discussion in volume 11 page 128. They speculate that even if he did not know about Alicia, Isley would still plan on the organization making preparations to defend against at least 10 AB. They then mention that Isley is as cunning as ever. No, Isley was sending the AB's to die and keep the organization and Riful occupied while he engaged a battle with Luciella to upset the balance of power. Luciella figured him out from the beginning and said she knew what he was planning as neither of them like groups. Isley said that made things easier. He does not like groups so why would he still control AB's? It is not like they can actually help him at this point.

Riful is certainly out looking for AB friends so I think that we will see more groups of AB's amassing in the future, but probably much smaller groups consisting of much more powerful AB's. Isley is the ultimate power house not because he has an army of AB's backing him up but because he has Priscilla. An army would mean nothing in a power struggle between the powers that be.

[tenken627]

The funny thing is that the MiB wonder if Isley knows about Alicia themselves. You can see their discussion in volume 11 page 128. They speculate that even if he did not know about Alicia, Isley would still plan on the organization making preparations to defend against at least 10 AB. They then mention that Isley is as cunning as ever. No, Isley was sending the AB's to die and keep the organization and Riful occupied while he engaged a battle with Luciella to upset the balance of power. Luciella figured him out from the beginning and said she knew what he was planning as neither of them like groups. Isley said that made things easier. He does not like groups so why would he still control AB's? It is not like they can actually help him at this point.

Riful is certainly out looking for AB friends so I think that we will see more groups of AB's amassing in the future, but probably much smaller groups consisting of much more powerful AB's. Isley is the ultimate power house not because he has an army of AB's backing him up but because he has Priscilla. An army would mean nothing in a power struggle between the powers that be.

ABs do not like groups in general. And yet 7 years after Isley's departure from the North, ABs in the North still form in groups, and no where else.

The ABs in the North are still there even though there is no food (humans) to be found there. Something is keeping them there. These ABs might be small fry, but they are still an occupational force, to help keep control of the North?

[chibamonster]

Isley does not need any help keeping control of the north, or any region for that matter. As Riful said, he could take over everything if he wanted to. For now Priscilla and Isley have kept quiet, but they have the power to seize control over all the lands whenever they feel like it.

The 3 AB's in the north were together because of the organizations change in policy, as on said, "we're not stupid. If the organization has started targeting us we will plan at least this much." They were together for survival reasons, not because of any loyalty to Isley.

[tenken627]

Isley does not need any help keeping control of the north, or any region for that matter. As Riful said, he could take over everything if he wanted to. For now Priscilla and Isley have kept quiet, but they have the power to seize control over all the lands whenever they feel like it.

The 3 AB's in the north were together because of the organizations change in policy, as on said, "we're not stupid. If the organization has started targeting us we will plan at least this much." They were together for survival reasons, not because of any loyalty to Isley.

So the organization is up there for what reason? Revenge for the fallen 24 warriors?

There are no humans to protect there.

If ABs didn't group together initially, there is no worry about any imminent threats.

If these ABs really are that weak and do not form into groups, why maintain a permanent Claymore force in the North?

[Defiled one]

So the organization is up there for what reason? Revenge for the fallen 24 warriors?

There are no humans to protect there.

If ABs didn't group together initially, there is no worry about any imminent threats.

If these ABs really are that weak and do not form into groups, why maintain a permanent Claymore force in the North?

Nope, someone alerted them for the possibility of survivors :rolleyes: Who´s a snitch? So that they would get dragged to the org and get a place among the top 10 as reward for their bravery :eyebrow:

[chibamonster]

From Clarice's conversation before her fainting in the North it seems that the organizations policy is to hunt down and destroy Awakened Beings regardless of whether they are in a group or not. As in they do it now even if there is no money involved whereas before they would only undertake an AB hunt as a payed mission like a normal youma. Well that or AB hunts to get rid of Claymores they did not like by sending them to the Paburo mountain range...

It does not seem that the claymores are there in the north because the AB's have formed a group. They got information about one and went to kill it. It was a surprise that there were more of them. It completely caught the claymores off guard and if the ghosts had not intervened then all of Clarice's group would have died. They were not anticipating a group which means that the fact the AB's are a group was not known to them. I do not think the Organization is in the north for revenge or because those AB were a threat to them but because of a change in policy. It seems that yagi wanted us to know this so Clarice asked specifically about it.

[tenken627]

From Clarice's conversation before her fainting in the North it seems that the organizations policy is to hunt down and destroy Awakened Beings regardless of whether they are in a group or not. As in they do it now even if there is no money involved whereas before they would only undertake an AB hunt as a payed mission like a normal youma. Well that or AB hunts to get rid of Claymores they did not like by sending them to the Paburo mountain range...

It does not seem that the claymores are there in the north because the AB's have formed a group. They got information about one and went to kill it. It was a surprise that there were more of them. It completely caught the claymores off guard and if the ghosts had not intervened then all of Clarice's group would have died. They were not anticipating a group which means that the fact the AB's are a group was not known to them. I do not think the Organization is in the north for revenge or because those AB were a threat to them but because of a change in policy. It seems that yagi wanted us to know this so Clarice asked specifically about it.

Unless my manga translation is wrong, Nina, the leader of Clarice's team, specifically says "The targets are halfway up this mountain." "They're just small subpar ones, not comparable to the ones 7 years ago... But don't let your guard down."

[chibamonster]

Japanese is notoriously ambiguous on plurals. From the raw it does not indicate that they are explicitly anticipating a group or an individual but instead that is just the translator's choice of words. I certainly could be wrong though as I am no expert. Either way nina's group suffered a surprise attack because they were not ready for the other AB's. If they knew they were facing a group it was very very bad planning by Nina because they assumed that their target, whether plural or not, was very weak and they got destroyed. If they did not know then they had bad information and did not expect to be up against 3 AB's as opposed to 1. The AB's seem to have joined forces because of the policy change of the organization more than anything to do with Isley.

[tenken627]

Japanese is notoriously ambiguous on plurals. From the raw it does not indicate that they are explicitly anticipating a group or an individual but instead that is just the translator's choice of words. I certainly could be wrong though as I am no expert. Either way nina's group suffered a surprise attack because they were not ready for the other AB's. If they knew they were facing a group it was very very bad planning by Nina because they assumed that their target, whether plural or not, was very weak and they got destroyed. If they did not know then they had bad information and did not expect to be up against 3 AB's as opposed to 1. The AB's seem to have joined forces because of the policy change of the organization more than anything to do with Isley.

If that is the case, the translator must have the same assumption as me. 10sigh.

Clarice's group was surprise attacked by one AB. Nina says that they don't have to climb anymore up because an AB was right in front of them. Since it was a surprise attack, they probably assumed that he was alone, even if they might have been ordered to take out a group of ABs. The surprise showing of the other 2 ABs was the plan the ABs had all along.

The early showing of one of the ABs probably put all plans made by Nina into disarray.

[hell88]

Assuming if Nina had any plans at all, she could have just been going in there thinking they were going to get an easy kill and get out and go somewhere warm.

[Tempest35]

From Clarice's conversation before her fainting in the North it seems that the organizations policy is to hunt down and destroy Awakened Beings regardless of whether they are in a group or not. As in they do it now even if there is no money involved whereas before they would only undertake an AB hunt as a payed mission like a normal youma. Well that or AB hunts to get rid of Claymores they did not like by sending them to the Paburo mountain range...

It does not seem that the claymores are there in the north because the AB's have formed a group. They got information about one and went to kill it. It was a surprise that there were more of them. It completely caught the claymores off guard and if the ghosts had not intervened then all of Clarice's group would have died. They were not anticipating a group which means that the fact the AB's are a group was not known to them. I do not think the Organization is in the north for revenge or because those AB were a threat to them but because of a change in policy. It seems that yagi wanted us to know this so Clarice asked specifically about it.


Change in policy indeed - to prevent another 'Pieta', they are killing any and all ABs to prevent them from mass grouping again. And if they are lucky, maybe they'll kill one that was a part of a bigger group belonging to Isley again and that way, get info on his whereabouts at least.

That would be my tatic as an MIB. :heh:

[chibamonster]

Agreed, I think the organization's self preservation is their biggest issue. It was not because the AB's gathered or that they killed a ton of claymores in Pieta so much as it was the fact that the AB's attacked the organization directly in force. Before that even the Abyssals had posed no direct threat to the organization as they remained in the abyss. Luciella, whose awakening almost ruined the org, got up and walked away. The policy of hunting them down seems like a real power struggle that the organization has entered directly confronting Isley and Riful.

[shelter]

Change in policy indeed - to prevent another 'Pieta', they are killing any and all ABs to prevent them from mass grouping again. And if they are lucky, maybe they'll kill one that was a part of a bigger group belonging to Isley again and that way, get info on his whereabouts at least.

That would be my tatic as an MIB. :heh:

Heh. If I were an MIB, I'd use the old divide & conquer strategy. Keep the ABs apart & prevent them from organizing. Pit one Abyssal one against the other. The Organization has the money, manpower & the monopoly. The only thing standing in their way is a rowdy, unpredictable Abyssal like Isley.

And wild cards like the 7 ghosts & Agatha hiding from their view. From the setting in Chapter 78 at the moment, I'd say the Organization is close to having complete control over the realm. Their lack of manpower up North is just a reflection of the movement of Abyssals: Isley moved south anyway. The North just serves no strategic function.

And with Luciela gone, the power vacuum in Abyssal ones is dying to be filled by someone like Priscilla. Or another character.

[lsley]

The reason Riful went there was to take advantage of the situation, she knew Luciella and Isley were fighting, she was going to finish off whoever she found, and she thought it might be Isley. She went to finish him off. Riful then figured out Priscilla is at LEAST twice as powerful as her, and it would require an alliance with Luceilla just to break even against Priscilla.

What he is saying IS the case though, Riful clearly stated she went to finish off the survivor, and then discovered Priscilla, who was far stronger then her. She tells Clare that Isley realized that if two AO teamed up, they would be an actual threat to Priscilla.
Oh, yeah sry I forgot this site >_> http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2351/1314copyoa4.jpg
The thing about thinking it is Isley still is insider information :p




Because it is always possible he, or Priscilla, could be seperated for a short amount of time, then the Allied Riful and Lucalea could double team him while Priscilla was away, thus leaving Priscilla alone, or vice-versa, though most likely the former.

It isn't simple math, situational awareness plays a huge part, and pushing everything into his favor is something Isley would do.
please don't rip my qutes out of context, I know it's hard at this forum since double quotes aren't easy but if you want to know it, read the whole thing.




Not entirely sure what you mean here, but he was attempting to state that your information was way of course, and not so much as hinted at in the manga.

Just wanted to say that no one of us wrote this story or knows yagi so everything we guess here is speculation and shouldn't be written as an official statement.



And now rip me apart, I'm drunk so it's np for me atm :p

[chibamonster]

haha, nice pic lsley. That is exactly what she was thinking too. :D Riful has a potty mouth :o

And for the organization, Riful taking out Priscilla and Isley would really be in their best interest. They do not want to get involved if they do not have to. If Priscilla were not a part of the equation then things would probably be much like they had been with 3 abyssals; the organization not moving against either because the third would come down and attack. A mutual check mate. But Priscilla messes everything up, especially because she is working with Isley (or at least is with him).

The power struggle reminds me of short track speed skating 1000m 2002 winter olympic event where Steven Bradbury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_track_speed_skating_at_the_2002_Winter_Olymp ics#1.2C000_m) won the gold medal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfQMJtilOGg). He was not even supposed to be in the finals. It reminds me of the power struggle against Isley and such because chances are everyone is going to try to take everyone else out and in the end the last man standing will be the victor, even if they did not do anything and are not the best or most powerful. A war is coming and I do not know which side Priscilla is really on. There must be a reason Isley has not moved in 7 years and I think it has something to do with the super powerful little girl who likes to hug raki.

[Defiled one]

This war reminds me of the old days, when the URSS still existed and Kennedy still lived in my heart ;_; COLD WAR, medieval style. Both factions fear mutual extermination while menacing each other with their most powerfull weapons.

[Negativedark]

You mean USSR don't you? But yep, that's the parrel I've seen. Except in this case there are three sides. And thus witchever side goes last will be the big winner. But then along comes Priscilla, and then the whole balence of power goes out the window.

[chibamonster]

Usually in a power struggle like this tentative alliances would be formed to get rid of the third party. Isley is smart because he knew once the other Abyssals realized that there had been a shift they would have joined up against the biggest most threatening power. Isley is one step ahead which is why he is on top.

[hell88]

I think the org is going to send Alicia and Beth and some other warriors out to kill Isley, but when they get there Priscilla will be there with him and she'll wipe them all out. Then the org will be down on manpower again, and it would be the perfect time for the 7 ghosts to exact there revenge.

[Simley]

I think the org is going to send Alicia and Beth and some other warriors out to kill Isley, but when they get there Priscilla will be there with him and she'll wipe them all out. Then the org will be down on manpower again, and it would be the perfect time for the 7 ghosts to exact there revenge.

that would be an ideal situation for the ghosts to get there revenge, but I don't see the organization doing that. Remember, the org knows that Priscilla is stronger than the AO's. He said even among the AB's, she is the best. Now...if they had TWO pairs of twins with the power of alicia/beth I can see that happening. I wonder if they have a replacement for the duo being trained. That would be pretty crazy, to have the top 4 with the power of being #1's. Not to mention Miata, so that would make the top #5 would be with the power of a #1 :o

Still, I don't see them doing that either, it would be WAY too dangerous, a single mistake and their entire org would be wiped out. If one AO like luciella caused so much damage, 2 would be overkill.

[hell88]

Yes but the org doesn't really know if Priscilla is with Isley, I can't remember if they do or not, which is why I was saying if the org would send in warriors and the twins to fight Isley but not knowing Priscilla would be there, she would wipe them out.

[Simley]

Yes but the org doesn't really know if Priscilla is with Isley, I can't remember if they do or not, which is why I was saying if the org would send in warriors and the twins to fight Isley but not knowing Priscilla would be there, she would wipe them out.

the organization has a vast information network...I'm sure they at least know Priscilla is with Isley. Exactly what their relationship is, I'm not sure many people know THAT. I'm pretty sure they know Priscilla is even stronger than Isley even, I remember Rubel mentioning to clare Priscilla is the best among AB's, how could he forget the AO's in his thought process? so although they haven't mentioned it explicity yet, I'd like to imagine they would be resourceful enough to be able to follow where their failed creations end up. Who knows though, if Priscilla is surpressing her aura like crazy again, they might not be able to locate her anymore. So maybe you are right. :o

Seems like Riful and Luciella were the ones who didn't know Priscilla's true strength, and thus underestimated Isley's planning.

[khryoleoz]

Isley spread that false rumor claiming that he beat Priscilla but had her join him as his squeeze because he became fond of her. Though Riful having heard of this doesn't necessarily mean the org has as well, if Isley spread that rumor for everyone to know about in order to throw them off, then the org probably had at least heard that much, even if they don't know the true nature of the Priscilla/Isley alliance.

[Negativedark]

Or the MIB simply were not fooled. Remember they made both Isley and Priscilla into hybirds. They may have some idea of how powerfule they are in relation to each other.

[Simley]

Or the MIB simply were not fooled. Remember they made both Isley and Priscilla into hybirds. They may have some idea of how powerfule they are in relation to each other.

or...their power level sensors were not sophisticated enough to handle Isley's AB form being the first #1 to awaken...I can imagine the MiB going "OMG IT"S OVER 9000!" (DBZ joke :D) and sensor couldn't handle it anymore

so it could be, for all they know, Isley is as powerful as priscilla. Still I doubt it, the MiB are always so crafty, they could have sent raphaela to scout the 3 AO's since she can cloak, they won't be able to notice her and she can observe them easily

[hell88]

I still think Priscilla is going to turn on Isley for using her by saying he'll help find her parents and all that, when he's really not.

[tenken627]

I still think Priscilla is going to turn on Isley for using her by saying he'll help find her parents and all that, when he's really not.

:thinker:

Isley should just form an alliance with Riful, and use their yoma shape shifting ability (do ABs have that as well?) to turn into Priscilla's daddy and mommy. Raki could play the brother. They can live as one big happy family.

Duph could be the family dog.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Oh, yeah sry I forgot this site >_> http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2351/1314copyoa4.jpg
The thing about thinking it is Isley still is insider information :p

Nice pic :heh:

please don't rip my qutes out of context, I know it's hard at this forum since double quotes aren't easy but if you want to know it, read the whole thing.

You were stating that Isley could have just said "Ha, I win" with Priscilla on his side if Priscilla was really that powerful, and you used that example to mock the idea. Ignoring that Priscilla might not even fight for Isley unless she is directly threatened, or that they could be separated from him, putting them both in danger to a Lucalea/Riful alliance.

Not so sure how it was OOcontext, considering it was a direct response to your statement.


Just wanted to say that no one of us wrote this story or knows yagi so everything we guess here is speculation and shouldn't be written as an official statement.

Indeed, but you are ignoring the information that is already given to us in the manga, by Yagi as it were.

Riful says that she would have had to ally with Lucalea to have a chance against Priscilla, thus implying she was not allied, and wasn't planning on allying, with Lucalea, at least not until after she met Priscilla.

It also implies that Priscilla's power is comparable to, if not above, two Abyssal Ones.


[And now rip me apart, I'm drunk so it's np for me atm :p

Like a phone book :p

[hell88]

:thinker:

Isley should just form an alliance with Riful, and use their yoma shape shifting ability (do ABs have that as well?) to turn into Priscilla's daddy and mommy. Raki could play the brother. They can live as one big happy family.

Duph could be the family dog.

That would be really funny, to bad Riful and Isley hate each other though.

[tenken627]

That would be really funny, to bad Riful and Isley hate each other though.

Has potential to be a comedy family sitcom spin off though.

Isley = Al
Riful = Peggy
Priscilla = Kelly
Raki = Bud
Duph = Buck

[hell88]

Has potential to be a comedy family sitcom spin off though.

Isley = Al
Riful = Peggy
Priscilla = Kelly
Raki = Bud
Duph = Buck

I see it more like Family Guy.

Duph = Peter
Riful = Louis
Priscilla = Meg
Raki = Chris
Isley = Brian
Helen = Qaugmire
Deneve = Joe
Clare = Cleveland
Rubal = Mare West

That would be hilarious.

[tenken627]

I see it more like Family Guy.

Duph = Peter
Riful = Louis
Priscilla = Meg
Raki = Chris
Isley = Brian
Helen = Qaugmire
Deneve = Joe
Clare = Cleveland
Rubal = Mare West

That would be hilarious.

Now that is worthy of a fan fiction story right there.

Helen as Quagmire? :eyespin:

I guess I can imagine her going "giggity giggity!"

[hell88]

Now that is worthy of a fan fiction story right there.

Helen as Quagmire? :eyespin:

I guess I can imagine her going "giggity giggity!"

I forgot one.

Raphaela as Stewie

[Simley]

Raphaela doesn't talk enough to be a Stewie...if anyone, I'd have Helen as Stewie because of the chatter.

[hell88]

Hey man don't ruin my fun lol. Besides I think it would be a lot more fun to have Helen as Qaugmire.

[chibamonster]

We know that Priscilla's dad died and a youma ate some family members. But does that mean everyone in her family is dead? If they are all gone then what if she found someone that she did know? Priscilla might actually find her old home town and live in it with Isley and Raki. She may even have human relatives. That would be a trip. Especially if she found out that a youma killed her family and her old hatred was renewed or something. I am not sure how much she remembers but even a little kid knows their home address.

We know Priscilla is out looking for her family. She must have found something in the last 7 years. As for Raki, he must have a game plan to find Clare. My personal preference is to set up a base and leave notes everywhere for Clare to find, especially in places they had been together before. Isley may not be able to utilize Priscilla until she is threatened as she does not seem to enjoy battle. Especially if she found something that made her happy.

[hell88]

I think thats what Raki might be doing, leaving notes around for Clare to find and to know where he's going like when Clare and Yuma found that marking in that dungeon of the statue of Teresa and Clare. It kind of reminds me of the mummy returns where the kidnapped son keeps leaving sand sculptings of places that he is being taken to so his parents can find him eventually. So mabye Raki was in that town where the statue of Teresa and Clare (can't remember what the town is called) is and has left another marking there of someplace Isley is taking him so Clare can go there an so on.

[Simley]

Priscilla might actually find her old home town and live in it with Isley and Raki. She may even have human relatives. That would be a trip. Especially if she found out that a youma killed her family and her old hatred was renewed or something


Yeah, I hope she does find some relatives of hers. Although, wouldn't they be scared of her since they know she was taken by the Org? Or maybe they wouldn't if the Org keeps it hush hush.

Something that occurred to me, being a claymore is pretty unfair lol. As an AB, you can blend in perfectly with humans, just like yoma. As a claymore, you stand out especially because of the eyes.

I think it would be awesome if Priscilla started killing AB and Yoma once she realizes what happened to her family. She wouldn't realize what she herself has become at once, but once she does, she would be face to face with Clare for the final confrontation :)

[hell88]

I think if Priscilla meets any relatives I think they would be afraid of her, because they would be old people and look at her she looks like she's still very young, they might think its witch craft or something. Then mabye Priscilla might realize whats going on.

[BishounoTeresa]

I think thats what Raki might be doing, leaving notes around for Clare to find and to know where he's going like when Clare and Yuma found that marking in that dungeon of the statue of Teresa and Clare. It kind of reminds me of the mummy returns where the kidnapped son keeps leaving sand sculptings of places that he is being taken to so his parents can find him eventually. So mabye Raki was in that town where the statue of Teresa and Clare (can't remember what the town is called) is and has left another marking there of someplace Isley is taking him so Clare can go there an so on.

that's one possibility, or maybe in the past 7 years he went looking for Clare in all the places they have been together, maybe he went to Rabona and talked to Galk and Sid, and maybe that's the theme of the new chapter, G7 get an update on what's been going on in these 7 years they have been away in the north and Calre gets (FINALLY) some info on the missing dullard(I mean Raki ofcourse), maybe he wasn't so dull after all and left her a message in Rabona saying where he is headed/staying, who knows, but I somehow doubt that

[hell88]

Mabye Raki is one of the solders in Rabona right now and realizes Clare when he see's her, or he could have been one of the soldiers Agatha killed but not likely. That city where the statue of Teresa and Clare is, (still can't remember what its called) Raki and Clare weren't there at the same time. Raki showed up before Clare did and left, so what gets me is how would he know Clare was there, because he left that drawing on the dungeon wall for Clare to find in Pieta.

[BishounoTeresa]

well the town was called Hanel and I don't think he left that drawing on purpose for Clare to find it, I think he saw it as a thing to remind him of Clare, keep his faith alive and keeping him goin in the time of desperation he was in, I mean he was caught to be sold as a slave, who wouldn't be desperate, that's why he drew it. And it was pure luck that Clare found it and knew he was there and figured out he escaped, and assumed right that he wouldn't know that she was in the north in the first place, so that gives him no reason to leave clues for Clare, he thought she wasn't there, that's why he wanted to go south to look for her. I don't think he is in Rabona, if he was Prisc will be there too, and Galatea would notice if an AB of that calibre was there. But I think he was in Rabona, and talked to Galk and Sid, so they'd have some info for Clare

:topicoff: I think we're gonna get busted for speculating in the wrong thread :uhoh:

[hell88]

:topicoff: I think we're gonna get busted for speculating in the wrong thread :uhoh:

Were still technically talking about Priscilla and Isley so I dought we'll get busted lol. Anyways he could have been in Rabona with Isley and Priscilla and he could have talked to Cid and Galk, he might have said to them if they see Clare tell her where I am and that I'm okay, and all that stuff. Then Cid and Galk will tell her and Clare and the ghosts will go searching for him but might be tentative on doing so because he's with Priscilla and Isley who could kill them at the snap of a finger.

[BishounoTeresa]

yeah I'm pretty sure he was in Rabona at some point, and maybe talked to Sid and Galk, if they have soem useful info for Clare she will definetly use it and go look for him, but if he is still with Prisc and Isley that's gonna be a big problem, or maybe he left them to go searching for Clare and Prisc was so devastated that she killed herself :heh: or killed Isley while letting out her anger, or at some point she ate Raki, or he was accidentally killed by Isley during training, maybe he saw threat in him 'cause he was keeping Prisc stable and maybe he could even control her, or he was just jealous :heh:

[hell88]

Mabye Raki somehow killed Isley and ran off in fear of Priscilla killing him. LOL

[BishounoTeresa]

how could he do that :heh: I highly doubt that, it's more likeful that Isley ate him, or Prisc did :heh:, or for once in his life he wasn't stupid and found out that they were monsters and then ran off

[hell88]

Yeah theres no way Isley is dead, if he was Riful wouldn't be recruiting members for her army.

[BishounoTeresa]

right, if he was and as unstable Prisc would be, Riful would go for her head and have a good chance of wining, damn I would sooo like to see some AB kick that psychos ass, hope Riful does that and then Clare kicks in and takes her head :D, maybe Rafaela killed herself after giving Luci the death hug, or she is still out there and waits to get her hands around the others :heh: and maybe Irene had some useful info on Luci at the time, and trade it for her life with Rafaela, maybe she is still ok or even has arms now, how great would that be :D *head spinning from so much possibilitys*

[hell88]

I know what you mean I want to see Irene again with her arms so Clare wouldn't have to give back ger right arm, because thats her main strength and I would like to see Rafaela come back with her left eye fixed. Mabye Raphaela will show up in Rabona and we will get some questions answered. A few chapters back when Agatha was fighting with Galatea one of them said they felt a yoki source nearby, it couldn't be the ghosts because there yoki is hidden, what if it was Raphaela and Irene. That would be so cool if they showed up. Anyways back on topic it would be cool to see Riful fight Priscilla, I think Riful would be able to hold her off for awhile then get killed by Priscilla's unbelievable power.

[Simley]

A few chapters back when Agatha was fighting with Galatea one of them said they felt a yoki source nearby, it couldn't be the ghosts because there yoki is hidden, what if it was Raphaela and Irene.

This never happened...I'm sure someone would have noticed if Galatea or Agatha mentioned something huge like this :)

as for Irene...forget her arms, most people would be happy to see her alive let alone with arms :)

[BishounoTeresa]

I know what you mean I want to see Irene again with her arms so Clare wouldn't have to give back ger right arm, because thats her main strength and I would like to see Rafaela come back with her left eye fixed. Mabye Raphaela will show up in Rabona and we will get some questions answered. A few chapters back when Agatha was fighting with Galatea one of them said they felt a yoki source nearby, it couldn't be the ghosts because there yoki is hidden, what if it was Raphaela and Irene. That would be so cool if they showed up. Anyways back on topic it would be cool to see Riful fight Priscilla, I think Riful would be able to hold her off for awhile then get killed by Priscilla's unbelievable power.

yeah I don't remember Galatea and Agatha saying something like this, I think you missunderstood what Galatea said, she said that she felt a yoki , refering to Agatha. I don't htink Riful would die, she's too smart for that, I think it's more likely she would let Duff be killed and escape :p

[hell88]

yeah I don't remember Galatea and Agatha saying something like this, I think you missunderstood what Galatea said, she said that she felt a yoki , refering to Agatha. I don't htink Riful would die, she's too smart for that, I think it's more likely she would let Duff be killed and escape :p

Thanks, I only read that chapter once and I read it too fast, thats why I probably misunderstood it lol. But still it would be cool if Rafaela would show up.

[BishounoTeresa]

agree :) :p

[Tempest35]

!!BUMP!!

:D Looks like this thread can be revived now with Chap 81 shedding some light on Raki and Priscilla.

I had a thought and I don't know if it has crossed anyone's minds but ...

What if Priscilla just starves herself to death just so that she does not eat Raki who is obviously important to her?

[KillerYomaFromSpace]

My guess is that Priscila stopped eating after the fight with Isley. because when she met Raki for the first time, she already looked a bit younger than her old self.

the question could be, how much time has passed since then?, it probably wasn't a long time after Teresa's fight.

anyone has a theory of Clare's true age? or at least how much time has passed since she joined the organization? It could perfectly be the same as Priscila's diet or at least very close (if my theory is right of course)

[NobodyMan]

It's good to see that Raki and Priscilla are getting along nicely! :D Now we just need to know where Isley is... because he sure isn't dead.

@Tempest35: That would be a sad way for Priscilla to die, I think. I think, in a slightly twisted way, it's kind of nice that Priscilla cares enough about Raki that she would actually start starving herself, but that may not be the only reason. It could also be the side of her that despises all things yoma that also stops her from eating flesh. She needs to start eating Raki's cooking though! He probably works really hard on it, and it would at least keep her from starving to death! :(

[chibamonster]

Priscilla: Raki... I am... I need... MUST HAVE... You look ... delicious...
Raki: Looks like somebody needs some spicy southern fried chicken! *Raki's armor can also deploy cooking utensils*
Priscilla: smells... nice
Raki: Here, use my shoulder pad as a bowl. Itadakimasho!
Priscilla: nom nom nom *big puppy eyes*:smile: *hugz*
Raki: Ouch! Careful! Remember, human hugging strength! Human hugging strength!
Priscilla: *hugz*
Raki: That's better. Let's get going.

[Ryuken]

Priscilla: Raki... I am... I need... MUST HAVE... You look ... delicious...
Raki: Looks like somebody needs some spicy southern fried chicken! *Raki's armor can also deploy cooking utensils*
Priscilla: smells... nice
Raki: Here, use my shoulder pad as a bowl. Itadakimasho!
Priscilla: nom nom nom *big puppy eyes*:smile: *hugz*
Raki: Ouch! Careful! Remember, human hugging strength! Human hugging strength!
Priscilla: *hugz*
Raki: That's better. Let's get going.

Nice @chiba.:);):p

[hell88]

Priscilla: Raki... I am... I need... MUST HAVE... You look ... delicious...
Raki: Looks like somebody needs some spicy southern fried chicken! *Raki's armor can also deploy cooking utensils*
Priscilla: smells... nice
Raki: Here, use my shoulder pad as a bowl. Itadakimasho!
Priscilla: nom nom nom *big puppy eyes*:smile: *hugz*
Raki: Ouch! Careful! Remember, human hugging strength! Human hugging strength!
Priscilla: *hugz*
Raki: That's better. Let's get going.

Continued:

Raki: No Priscilla thats too tight!
Crick
Priscilla: Raki must know how much I care somehow.
Crack
Raki: To tight....
Snap
Prscilla: I love you Raki!
CRACK
Raki: *dies*
Raphaela shows up.
Raphaela: I taught her that.

[Ryuken]

Continued:

Raki: No Priscilla thats too tight!
Crick
Priscilla: Raki must know how much I care somehow.
Crack
Raki: To tight....
Snap
Prscilla: I love you Raki!
CRACK
Raki: *dies*
Raphaela shows up.
Raphaela: I taught her that.

Now why would she teach her that @hell?........to kill anyone she falls for or something els.:)

[hell88]

Well I guess you haven't read Raphaela's back breaking adventures have you Ryuken?:p

[Ryuken]

Well I guess you haven't read Raphaela's back breaking adventures have you Ryuken?:p

She broke her back?!!:heh: