Byakugan vs. Sharingan [Archive] - Page 5

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Hunter

2006-08-19, 09:17

I agree with raikage here.
Sure the Byakugan has a blindspot, the further the bigger this blindspit would be.... Which ultimately only means that a Byakugan user has to move his head to cover it as well.

This blindspot can be a "weakness" only against very precise type of ninja and very high analyzing skill.
In fact this blindspot seems to me more dangerous on a full scale battlefield where jutsu and kunai can fly from everywhere not even targeting you in the first place and hit a Byakugan user by pure bad luck than in any one vs. one fight.

Probably you and Hunter are the only one, I should has said when the thread was active- There are some that are active, but the majority have disappear..I really miss the old days ^^
How old is old?
Even this thread is but the revival of the old one lost during the first forum crash.
From the beginning of the Naruto forum when we were only 5 guys to post on a daily basis I'm the last one posting (with Dragon Flame still lurking :P), from the late 2003 there is more people than you would think.

tramadrama

2006-08-19, 09:18

If you think of what Kidomaru had to go through to find the blind spot, as well as what kinds of skills were necessary to manipulate the small weakness, it's not really a factor. Most shinobi would be unable to do it.

- You would have to launch a successive series of tiny projectiles and notice that one in particular gets through

-You would have to immobilize the ninja in question -- if he moves, the blind spot moves with him

-You would have to be able to control your projectile in mid-flight -- if he moves his head, the blind spot moves with him

Very, very few people would be able to do these things.
Of course. I was referring to a discussion a few pages back to where someone said that the blind spot was Neji's alone and I was reinforcing why its Byakugan's blindspot itself.

Rurik

2006-08-19, 19:51

How old is old?
Even this thread is but the revival of the old one lost during the first forum crash.
From the beginning of the Naruto forum when we were only 5 guys to post on a daily basis I'm the last one posting (with Dragon Flame still lurking :P), from the late 2003 there is more people than you would think.

Well, not that old before the first forum crash, and the dinosaurs ruled the earth :p

But yeah, at the end of 2003, a lot of guys are lurking around but the majority of old regulars don't post on this forum anymore:rolleyes:

SuperKnuckles

2006-08-21, 02:17

They DID say that Byakugan had better insight than the Sharingan. So I doubt something like the Genjutsu would even work against Byakugan.

tatami

2006-08-21, 02:38

They DID say that Byakugan had better insight than the Sharingan. So I doubt something like the Genjutsu would even work against Byakugan.

dont think so ,uber chakra control...at deadline byakugan user hits the tenketsus in the head and be genjustsu free:D

Yellow Flash

2006-08-26, 14:22

I wonder what uses more chakra...Byakugan or Sharingan.

-

tatami

2006-08-28, 22:24

i just learned that sharingan is not a trait for all uchihas anly a limited amount of them...lol...

Ichimaru

2006-08-31, 03:33

tatami

2006-08-31, 04:09

sharingan is way overrated, so wat it can compress kyubii, wtf were the uchiha clan when kyubi was causin havoc in fire country??? who was the one that destroyed it? yeh thats right, yondaime did, not a uchiha member.

then theres madora, all this talk about him and curse bloodline, if he was that strong how come he didnt destroy the kyubii but let it live on??

it is overrated cuz its so powerfull.
we doont know if it can compress kyubi or not.
no one ever destroyed kyubi.
yondaime died kyubi lives.
we dont know anything about madara.so destroying kyubi is whole another story.
this is a byakugan vs. sharingan topic not sharingan capabilities topic.

Hunter

2006-08-31, 07:55

sharingan is way overrated,
[...]

+
seriously kishi = jackass, how much more does he has to overpower and overrate the sharigan? im startin to hate it with a passion now.
You know that's what I find funny with the Sharingan.
It's the only jutsu that people never stop to complain about how overpowered it is and then the very same people come here and say that it's overrated and not that powerful.

tatami

2006-08-31, 08:08

fanboys...
its nonsense...
if byakugan was this overpowerd then they will hate it more...

Spectacular_Insanity

2006-08-31, 09:35

I'd have to go with byukugan for this one. I find that the power has more depth to it than mere hypnotization, and it's powers seem to be more useful in absolutely pulverizing an opponents internal organs. Also, it can see into others' techniques, so therefore has an advantage over sharingan because it can see the weaknessesd inherent in a person's fighting style.

Whereas the sharingan can only copy an opponents move, and doesn't have the depth of insight. In my opinion. Frankly, I think they're both cool, but I'd probably pick byukugan over sharingan if given the choice.

Hunter

2006-08-31, 09:46

Except it's the Sharingan which see through other's techniques and not the Byakugan.
And except that the Sharingan is quite not only about mere hypnotization.

This may be the 2nd reason I find the Sharingan funny. People take known abilities of the Sharingan and give them to their favorite bloodline to explain why they think "..." is better ^^

Lollerpants

2006-08-31, 16:21

Hm.. I think sharigan is "seemingly" overpowered because all the people that HAVE sharingan now are the ones that can do h4x0rs stuff with it.

I mean... we've only really seen 3 MAJOR sharingan users..

Kakashi + Itachi --> Mangekyou
Sasuke --> That whole surpressing Kyuubi thing (though I'm not sure whether or not Itachi could have done that, somewhat skeptical on that point.)

Temarifan

2006-08-31, 17:57

i guess byakugan. only if i get that hand juyken thing that hinata does too.

anselfir

2006-09-01, 09:36

sharingan is the plot-no-jutsu, it has magical powers beyond the imagination of mere mortals. seriously, cut it out already, it is getting old.

Last_Hope

2006-09-01, 10:15

I´d vote for Sharingan to be more useful in battle but I would personally prefer Byakugan. The user and the way they use the jutsu and Byakugan is much more stylish and classy compared to Sharingan.

Byakugan is like a hitman in a suit and Sharingan is like a drunk Mike Tyson.

Sazelyt

2006-09-01, 11:40

Unless Kishi loses his mind, Byagukan is bound to obtain some power ups to catch up with Sharingan. The least Kishi can do, is to make Byagukan invincible to most of the Sharingan powers, and add some mysterious features to overcome/stop Sharingan's other powers.

Hunter

2006-09-01, 12:12

I don't really see why. It's not like Naruto is a Hyuga.

Sazelyt

2006-09-01, 12:25

I don't really see why. It's not like Naruto is a Hyuga.Naruto being or not being a Hyuga is not an issue here. If the information on the web is correct, they seem to share the same origins.

Sharingan is shown to obtain zillions of different capabilities in a non-stop manner, whereas for Byagukan we have only two. I can understand the curse related part as a special case (just that part, not the other stuff that comes with it), but for others it is logical to expect some kind of reciprocity (I hope I chose the right word here) or mutual correspondence among the powers of those two.

Rurik

2006-09-01, 12:35

anselfir

2006-09-01, 12:35

there is no need to make byakugan more powerful. the baekugan doesn't play any major role in this series, the omfgwtfhaxsharingan however advances the plot, what with both kakashi(naruto's training) and sasuke alive and jumping.

Sazelyt

2006-09-01, 12:41

The problem is not Logical wise, but plot wise, as the reason why Hunter said Naruto is not a Hyuga, I guess.Still, I won't feel comfortable if Byagukan is left the way it was shown at the beginning.

Rurik

2006-09-01, 12:57

Still, I won't feel comfortable if Byagukan is left the way it was shown at the beginning.

Well..Think about it this way, there are people who would not be conftoble if Byakugan gain abilities to match the sharingan. Including, even maybe, Kishimoto himself. :eyespin:

Besides, the purpose of giving Byakugan new Abilities to match the Sharingan should be for a Hyuga and a Uchiha fight, and a Fight like this would just lack the coolness because everyone will know before hand who is going to be the winner.

Well, its all deppend on the use Kihi would like to give the Byakugan in terms of plot, somehow I just don't see this happening.

Catgirls

2006-09-01, 13:13

From the Naruto Forum Rules (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26287): Make sure you follow these rules if you want to stay out of trouble.

1. Forbidden threads

* Review of a single fansub group's recent release.
* Release Announcements.
* Rumors of whether a series is licensed or not.
* Discussion unfriendly.
* Versus threads.Closing to prevent further infection and rashing of the groin area.

/Edit: Well I talked with a couple of the other Mods/Admins that have been around and they said to leave this open. Sorry about that people. Thread is open! :D

*walks away whistling*

Hunter

2006-09-01, 14:34

Naruto being or not being a Hyuga is not an issue here. If the information on the web is correct, they seem to share the same origins.

Sharingan is shown to obtain zillions of different capabilities in a non-stop manner, whereas for Byagukan we have only two. I can understand the curse related part as a special case (just that part, not the other stuff that comes with it), but for others it is logical to expect some kind of reciprocity (I hope I chose the right word here) or mutual correspondence among the powers of those two.
Like Rurik said I was more refering plotwise but for the sake of discussion : why?
It's not like these bloodlines are mean to be fated to be equally powerful even if they seem to be fated to be almost equally loved by the fanbase.
The Sharingan and the Byakugan may share the same origin but so does monkey and us and I sure you don't intend them to hide some secret power which they could use to fight back Earth ;)
In the same way all jutu come from chakra... Which doesn't mean all jutsu have the same potential.

I remember 4 years ago at the beginning of this thread some people were already saying the Sharingan had shown the end of its abilities whereas the Byakugan was just started.... Well in these 4 years we got to learn a (tiny) weakness from the Byakugan while the Sharingan continues spaming new broken abilities like there is no tomorow.

Had Sasuke & Itachi been Hyuga it would be the opposite but given the story each time Naruto & co will become more powerful the Sharingan will drop some new insane power until the end of the series (or until all Uchiha are beaten but that should be close to the end as well).

That being said, I do hope we will get to learn more about the Byakugan and that Kishimoto will invent some new cool things about it.

Chopz601

2006-09-01, 14:44

sharingan, think it look better than the byukugan ;) i need 2 see more from both eyes before making a choice for battle ;)

I dont we have seen the FULL power of the Byukugan. Does it have anykind of evolution like the Sharingan? It's too early to actually match the too. But right now, they cancel each other out really?? each has there Advantage and Disadvantage. Though Actually unless you have the MS, All Byukugan user has to do is fight you with Taijutsu and hit you Chakra points. Remember what Might Guy said, Look at his Feet and stay away from his eyes.

Also his name is MIGHT GUY not Maito Gai...Where did the name Maito Gai come from???The name "Might Guy" is a joke aimed at the "hot-headed hero" archetype that appears in many movies and anime. Shonen Jump even uses the name "MIGHT GUY" or "MIGHTY GUY" (which was changed to MIGHT GUY)

raikage

2006-09-01, 21:30

mechwar666

2006-09-01, 22:19

I say neither ...

People would think your blind with the byukagan white eyes, when in reality you can make an eagle say: "do you have eyes on the back of your head?".

And with the sharingan eyes YOU SIMPLY ARE A FREAK ... I will stay with a kyubi instead of special eyes. At least with a kyubi you are a FREAK! but with a good reason to be one, you would have a demon inside ^^.

Hunter

2006-09-02, 09:07

As a direct translation from katakana to roma-ji.
Doesn't matter! We have to accept that characters's name are about as stupid as it get and we should call Iruka Dolphin of the Sea, Ino Wild Boar in the Mountain, Kakashi Field Scarecrow and the list goes on!

VampiricBlood

2006-09-02, 19:10

Id rather have a sharingan.

raikage

2006-09-02, 19:22

Doesn't matter! We have to accept that characters's name are about as stupid as it get and we should call Iruka Dolphin of the Sea, Ino Wild Boar in the Mountain, Kakashi Field Scarecrow and the list goes on!

http://forums.revora.net/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif

mechwar666

2006-09-03, 20:40

tkdtiger

2006-09-03, 22:50

Also his name is MIGHT GUY not Maito Gai...Where did the name Maito Gai come from???The name "Might Guy" is a joke aimed at the "hot-headed hero" archetype that appears in many movies and anime. Shonen Jump even uses the name "MIGHT GUY" or "MIGHTY GUY" (which was changed to MIGHT GUY)
Actually a direct translation would be Maito Gai(I think this is the written pronunciation of the Japanese sound), but when translated for english purposes it's might guy , both would be correct...mighty guy prob. would sound better in english though

Missilebuster

2006-09-04, 11:49

byakugan would win if the fighter could get close enough to land two chakra hole plugs on the sharingan user's eyes

Hunter

2006-09-04, 12:29

Yeah except if Sharingan could get close enough to land two hole plugs on the Byakugan user's eyes.
... Assuming these eyes got fingers of course.

anselfir

2006-09-04, 13:56

Amaterasu > crispy neji strips. ggnore

the white eyes can see the future, but can they make chocolate chips cookies?

Medalist

2006-09-04, 14:24

Yeah except if Sharingan could get close enough to land two hole plugs on the Byakugan user's eyes.
... Assuming these eyes got fingers of course.

Assumption is the mother of screw-ups.

---Neji vs. Kakashi = kakashi wins
---Neji vs. Sasuke = even
---Sasuke vs. Neji's daddy = Neji's dad wins.

---SEE the context and logic behind that

tatami

2006-09-04, 15:12

Assumption is the mother of screw-ups.

---Neji vs. Kakashi = kakashi wins
---Neji vs. Sasuke = even
---Sasuke vs. Neji's daddy = Neji's dad wins.

---SEE the context and logic behind that

so these arent "Assumptions"

Medalist

2006-09-04, 15:17

It's not assumption it's fact...and as i said --SEE the context and logic behind that
--You didn't see the logic behind it.

Lollerpants

2006-09-04, 15:51

Neji vs. Sasuke = even

Chuunin exam time Neji would pwn Sasuke, as Kakashi even stated.

Valley of the end Sasuke with 3-tome'd Sharingan is probably > Neji because Sasuke would have been able to predict all of Neji's movements, closing tenketsu or using Jyuuken is still only effective if you're able to hit them.

Post Time-skip I certainly would not be surprised if Sasuke was able to beat Neji without that much effort.

tatami

2006-09-04, 15:58

It's not assumption it's fact...and as i said --SEE the context and logic behind that
--You didn't see the logic behind it.

you r going to be next yf wont you?

how come it is a fact show us some proofs and manga chapters,better show us the fights....

these are your "Assumptions" not facts.

Hunter

2006-09-04, 16:10

Assumption is the mother of screw-ups.
[...]
---SEE the context and logic behind that
I try very hard to connect your post with mine but I must admit I failed... Oh wait!
Maybe I understand : I assumed that their eyes didn't possess fingers which considering the last ridiculous upgrades the Sharingan got was a stupid assumption.

The next Sharingan's boost will be little hands growing onto the eyes to make their own Sharingan handseals!

Medalist

2006-09-04, 17:37

Blood_Soaked_Rag

2006-09-04, 20:29

i think it all depends on the user, obviously, but no-one can beat itachi coz he is the best, but neiji vs sasuke pre time skip=neiji
Same senario post time skip=Sasuke
i base this completley on the user, how trained they are ect...
for something like itachi's ?mangekoyu?(spelling) sharingan his opponent has to look into his eyes but for kakashi's sharingan dimensional thingy it would be easier to verse a byukugan user...A fight like Itachi vs neiji's or hinata's dad would be a bit more accurate, itachi has a big weakness in his sharingan(having to make eye-contact) that byukugan can exploit but he makes up for it in raw skill and power. But with sasuke's sharingan ability to foretell an opponents next move i think gives it an edge over byukugan in that the fighting technique used with the byukugan is inferior, having too close the chakra holes all over the body would be made difficult since what you will do next is seen by the sharingan and in close quarters, as for long range the 'ultimate' defence of neiji's would not stand a chance against saskue's fire breath(lost for the tech. term??) but yeah, if im wrong, CORRECT ME MAGGOTS!!!

Medalist

2006-09-04, 20:54

Let's put it like this...byakugan vs. sharingan is pointless...and yes your right...it depends on the user. But what most don't understand...it could be HINATA VS. ITACHI...that doesn't mean hinata is gonna lose...you just use what you already know and assume what's gonna happen instead of looking at a full-faced fact on each and every aspect of their fighting styles....in any fight the one with the advantage always has some chance of getting his *** whooped.

Sazelyt

2006-09-04, 21:13

Let's put it like this...byakugan vs. sharingan is pointless...and yes your right...it depends on the user. I don't think it is pointless.

You can always find a rather objective way to compare those two.

The most objective way to compare those two is to determine how those techniques compare at full power. Since we haven't seen the limits of Byakugan (the same is partially valid for Sharingan), that is a bit difficult thing to do. But still you can base your comparison on two people who have still not achieved that maximum level, for instance Neji vs. Sasuke.

You can also compare specific techniques of those two bloodline abilities, and how well they compete against each other.

Those are just samples of what you can do as long as you have objectively set your mind on analyzing those two abilities.

Medalist

2006-09-04, 21:50

I don't think it is pointless.

You can always find a rather objective way to compare those two.

The most objective way to compare those two is to determine how those techniques compare at full power. Since we haven't seen the limits of Byakugan (the same is partially valid for Sharingan), that is a bit difficult thing to do. But still you can base your comparison on two people who have still not achieved that maximum level, for instance Neji vs. Sasuke.

You can also compare specific techniques of those two bloodline abilities, and how well they compete against each other.

Those are just samples of what you can do as long as you have objectively set your mind on analyzing those two abilities.

It's lies...i couldn't give a d*mn if say the Chakra level of max Sharingan is 100000000 and the chakra level of the max byakugan is 10 ...if the user who uses the byakugan is smart...she/he can overcome the sharingan user , same vice-versa.

Hunter

2006-09-05, 06:02

uh huh right...oh wait u do make sense...so i could end this thread...omg the **** it seems people have been discussing for 50+ pages about a 2 sets of eyes fighting each other in extreme combat seeing which one will win!!! These eyes stare eachother down seeing which one will win...-_- yeah so this thread lost all purpose now.
As Sazelyt pointed out you're indeed completely mistaken.
This thread is about what abilitity/capacity/etc. these bloodline can give to their user (and not necessarily again each other). Not X Sharingan user against Y Byakugan user.

Neji's father being stronger than Sasuke or Sasuke being stronger than Hinata is completely pointless to the discussion, that just shows that they re better ninjas and not that their Doujutsu are better.
By your logic normal eyes are better than both Sharingan and Byakugan because any Hokage would easily annihilate anyone in these two clan except for Itachi.

Medalist

2006-09-05, 06:56

Oh wait you're forgetting...if hinata is smarter than her opponent ( say the hokage) she could win...you don't have to be the strongest to win.

ri0

2006-09-05, 10:09

Oh wait you're forgetting...if hinata is smarter than her opponent ( say the hokage) she could win...you don't have to be the strongest to win.
Shikamaru was smarter than Tayuya... did he win?

Hunter

2006-09-05, 10:20

Oh wait you're forgetting...if hinata is smarter than her opponent ( say the hokage) she could win...you don't have to be the strongest to win.
Even if that was true -and it's not which is why Shikamaru doesn't will all his fights- that would squale Hinata's intelligence and not her Bloodline.

Full_Metal

2006-09-05, 11:38

Sharingan hands down

Medalist

2006-09-05, 15:56

Sharingan hands down

Sharingan has hands down? omg i learned something new...the sharingan has hands.

An unlikely coincidence could happen and hinata could beat anyone. Seems to happen with naruto frequently.

astayanax

2006-09-05, 17:31

itachi has a big weakness in his sharingan(having to make eye-contact)

This is incorrect. Only his MS genjutsu requires physical eye to eye contact. However, stuff like Amaterasu he can do in an instant and annihilate virtually anything just by glancing in that direction.

Even ignoring the MS, Itachi is the best sharingan user shown so far in the series.

The only weakness I would say he has is his lack of (Well from what we saw of his fighting style) defense against extremely powerful wide area attacks. It would be hard for him for example to dodge attacks that can level down countries if he wasn't ready for it.

tkdtiger

2006-09-06, 11:00

Well we know that in Neji's case that he inherited the byakugan the most then any Hyuuga clan member. Which means that his byakugan I think would have even more potential then Hinata's father. We don't exactly know much about the byakugan, but everything in Naruto seems to be based more on the individual person. I would love to see Neji fight at some point against a Sharingan user. If that ever happens I think we would def. learn more about the byakugan. I think a Byakugan User maybe able to see when a Sharingan user tries to use MS or Amat. I think this, because a byak. user can see various things with it's insight, such as insects and birds. I think the byak. would then if it's strong enough can see the diff. forms of the Sharingan.

Wrath of the Uchiha

2006-09-06, 23:54

itachi has a big weakness in his sharingan(having to make eye-contact)

We know he can cast genjutsu by other methods than eye contact [through his ring] and Amataresu doesn't require eye contact either, he can cast it at anything.

s-class uchiha

2006-09-07, 01:22

I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS IS EVEN CLOSE

The byakugan is nowhere near the domination the Sharingan provides.

okay, so its near, but c'mon, have you been watching the series?

tritoch

2006-09-07, 01:28

Quick question.

Once byakugan is activated, can you see the sharingan eye normally or just those chakra paths?

haha made you think.

Hunter

2006-09-07, 04:32

The question is easily answered : Neji made a long description of Hinata's eyes while watching her with the Byakugan.

You don't stop seeing things when you activate the Byakugan, it's the way around.

tritoch

2006-09-07, 04:42

Neiji wasn't really describing the eyes more like where Hinata was looking at but yeah, maybe you're right.

tkdtiger

2006-09-07, 10:32

Quick question.

Once byakugan is activated, can you see the sharingan eye normally or just those chakra paths?

haha made you think.

both...it seems to me that t hey can choose to see chakra paths or not when activating the byakugan. The byakugan can see things with great clarity as well so I think it could see prob. more details on a sharingan then a normal eye.

Dauthi

2006-09-07, 23:17

From what we've seen, i would say the sharingan has a large advantage over byakugen, simply because byakugen revolves around close range fighting, while sharingan excels in dodging close range attacks.This would be with 2 people, of equal skill of course, combating.

Of course the sharingan not only counters the close range effectiveness of the byakugen, but has all the fun bells and whistles that comes with the sharingan. Its no wonder oro is so interested in it no? Overpowered, i would have to say yes.

Im sure neji will learn more techniques and cool attacks with his byakugen, but so far we have seen that they all utilize close range attacks, unless they are defensive. Also byakugen is revered as the ultimate hand to hand close range fighting technique, so im sure the rest of the tricks he will pull out will revolve around this strength.

ri0

2006-09-08, 09:26

astayanax

2006-09-08, 10:41

Also byakugen is revered as the ultimate hand to hand close range fighting technique

This is not Byakugen, but Jyuuken. Byakugan doesnt really give much to the user except for unrivalled vision capabilities. That is it.

Dauthi

2006-09-08, 12:33

This is not Byakugen, but Jyuuken. Byakugan doesnt really give much to the user except for unrivalled vision capabilities. That is it.

Its close range fighting they created by incorporating their byakugen. Take byakugen away, and they can no longer do it, right? Its one in the same for the most part.

This thread is still not about those two Doujutsu fighting each other...
Hunter said it already but since everybody seems to forget it:

Well thats not fun is it :|

astayanax

2006-09-08, 13:48

Its close range fighting they created by incorporating their byakugen. Take byakugen away, and they can no longer do it, right? Its one in the same for the most part.

One is a form of martial arts and the other is an inherited body part. There is no similiarities or relationship except that the Byakugen is use as an aid to see the vital areas that Jyuuken targets. If the Jyuuken user can determine these vital areas by different means, then he doesn't need the Byakugen.

Likewise, the Byakugen isn't used for jutsus like Kaiten (or however that swirling defense jutsu is) except to make the best use of it.

Hunter

2006-09-08, 14:08

This thread is still not about those two Doujutsu fighting each other...
Hunter said it already but since everybody seems to forget it:
Hmmm?
No, no there is no problem discussing about virtual Sharingan user against another virtual Byakugan user or a ninja-joe. I mean, the eyes alone won't do much if there isn't a human around to use it.
How and why these abilities could be used against another ninja is right on the topic.

What this thread isn't about is "Itachi is the best so the Sharingan is better!" or "Hiashi would beat the hell out of Sasuke so the Byakugan owns!!" or "Hinata can get lucky and blahblahblah".

Yellow Flash

2006-09-08, 16:16

Neji has 360 vision even if his Byakugan is turned off. Right?

Yellow Flash

2006-09-08, 16:39

Neji made a long description of Hinata's eyes while watching her with the Byakugan.

Neji merely commented on her posture, facial expressions and eye saccades.

I don't know why he would need to see any chakra points for that.

Maybe Kishimoto wasn't sure yet what to do with Byakugan.

Sazelyt

2006-09-08, 17:03

Neji has 360 vision even if his Byakugan is turned off. Right?Byakugan is the reason of that vision, so no, if it is turned off, he can at most have 180 vision and only at visible-range.

Yellow Flash

2006-09-08, 18:09

Byakugan is the reason of that vision, so no, if it is turned off, he can at most have 180 vision and only at visible-range.

But he saw Ino's fist and his Byakugan was turned off.

Hunter

2006-09-08, 18:16

Neji merely commented on her posture, facial expressions and eye saccades.
I don't know why he would need to see any chakra points for that.

Learn to read.

But he saw Ino's fist and his Byakugan was turned off.
That's just ninja 6th senses, like Kabuto launching a knife at Kakashi from behind doesn't mean he can see at 360° and Kakashi catching the knife despite his blind spot doesn't mean the Sharingan see through things.

Yellow Flash

2006-09-08, 18:23

Learn to read.

What do you mean? I didn't disagree with your post, you know.

That's just ninja 6th senses, like Kabuto launching a knife at Kakashi from behind doesn't mean he can see at 360° and Kakashi catching the knife despite his blind spot doesn't mean the Sharingan see through things.

Ino was totally surprised at this, and wondered if Neji has eyes on his back.
He didn't just sense her, he saw her shaking a fist.
That was clearly a peek at his ability, the Byakugan.

classclown268

2006-09-08, 19:35

I like sharingan cuz like it helps predict and Copy moves and also u can use the mangekou thing plus it just looks cooler

Dauthi

2006-09-09, 11:34

One is a form of martial arts and the other is an inherited body part. There is no similiarities or relationship except that the Byakugen is use as an aid to see the vital areas that Jyuuken targets. If the Jyuuken user can determine these vital areas by different means, then he doesn't need the Byakugen.

Likewise, the Byakugen isn't used for jutsus like Kaiten (or however that swirling defense jutsu is) except to make the best use of it.

Kaiten is just utilizing thier ability to extract chakra from their body, a technique possible due to heavy training of jyuuken.

But yes, if they can see the points in the body without byakugen, they could fight that way, but as far as we know byakugen is the only way, and they are the only users of the style. So its safe to say, anyone with byakugan knows, or will know, jyuuken anyways.

minuteman

2006-09-09, 12:30

i think for the all around most battle adaptability i go with Byukugan, but i think when mastered to its full extent i go with Sharingan.

Hunter

2006-09-10, 08:01

What do you mean? I didn't disagree with your post, you know.
No you just didn't understand it.
Tritoch wondered if Hyuga could distinguish the actual eyes while they were using the Byakugan instead of being merely able to see the chakra paths.
The answer being yes as Neji could describe the way Hinata's pupils were moving or how strength returned to her eyes or how Naruto's eyes showed absolute confidence and all this kind of stuff given Neji's liking to comment about people's eyes.

The Byakugan sees everything, if a ninja is hidding behind a tree a kunai behind his back then a Byakugan user will see the tree and the guy, and his inner coil, and the kunai (and the squirrel still behind all that).
The Byakugan isn't known to erase a part of what the user sees to see something else behind (like raikage once said, Hyuuga don't run into trees), but to see everything.

Yellow Flash

2006-09-10, 08:17

No you just didn't understand it.
Tritoch wondered if Hyuga could distinguish the actual eyes while they were using the Byakugan instead of being merely able to see the chakra paths.
The answer being yes as Neji could describe the way Hinata's pupils were moving or how strength returned to her eyes or how Naruto's eyes showed absolute confidence and all this kind of stuff given Neji's liking to comment about people's eyes.

But Neji didn't see Kidoumaru's eyes with the Byakugan, only chakra paths.

You didn't reply to the other thing, does that mean you agree?

Hunter

2006-09-10, 08:51

Neji did see Kidoumaru's eyes, it just wasn't drawn just like Hinata's eyes weren't drawn during their fight whereas he was describing them.

When Kishimoto draws a Byakugan vision, he doesn't draw all what a Hyuga sees : it's impossible.
When Neji looked at Shino, the manga shows the bugs because it was the current point, Neji is still able to see though Shino but it's not drawn because the panel would be illegible.
It's the same when Neji and Hinata looked at each others with the Byakugan, there wasn't any background at all, all the panel was grey.
That doesn't mean when they look at the inner coil they become unable to see around them, just that the important point was to show the inner coils system.
When Neji is looking at everything around him within a radius of 800m at least the manga represents that with a high altitude point of view showing all the landscape in Neji's vision field.
Which again doesn't mean he really sees things like that.

I didn't answer the other thing because it was retarded.
You asked, you were answered. You don't like the answer, so be it.

minuteman

2006-09-10, 09:18

calm down friend its just a show.:)

Yellow Flash

2006-09-10, 11:12

Neji did see Kidoumaru's eyes, it just wasn't drawn just like Hinata's eyes weren't drawn during their fight whereas he was describing them.

When Kishimoto draws a Byakugan vision, he doesn't draw all what a Hyuga sees : it's impossible.
When Neji looked at Shino, the manga shows the bugs because it was the current point, Neji is still able to see though Shino but it's not drawn because the panel would be illegible.
It's the same when Neji and Hinata looked at each others with the Byakugan, there wasn't any background at all, all the panel was grey.
That doesn't mean when they look at the inner coil they become unable to see around them, just that the important point was to show the inner coils system.
When Neji is looking at everything around him within a radius of 800m at least the manga represents that with a high altitude point of view showing all the landscape in Neji's vision field.
Which again doesn't mean he really sees things like that.

I see. Didn't know that.

I didn't answer the other thing because it was retarded.
You asked, you were answered. You don't like the answer, so be it.

I still believe it was the Byakugan. I could be wrong, I guess.

ri0

2006-09-11, 06:21

I still believe it was the Byakugan. I could be wrong, I guess.
That's a weird scene... I also believed that it was because of his Byakugan (because it was later on revealed he had a 360 degree vision) but as I reread the chapter to check on it I saw he had it turned off, so I guess Hunter is right. Though I still think it SHOULD be an activated Byakugan.

Yellow Flash

2006-09-11, 06:55

That's a weird scene... I also believed that it was because of his Byakugan (because it was later on revealed he had a 360 degree vision) but as I reread the chapter to check on it I saw he had it turned off, so I guess Hunter is right. Though I still think it SHOULD be an activated Byakugan.

Even when turned off, he still has the white eyes.

I do not believe it was just sense. He saw that fist.

Ichimaru

2006-09-11, 07:28

shinos glasses > Byukugan + sharingan

ri0

2006-09-11, 09:33

Even when turned off, he still has the white eyes.

I do not believe it was just sense. He saw that fist.
I think that too... though the manga implies something different.

Rich

2006-09-11, 09:47

Even when turned off, he still has the white eyes.

and when byakugan is turned on, there are veins leading to those white eyes, so what? o________________O

minuteman

2006-09-11, 16:45

what do you mean?

Sazelyt

2006-09-11, 16:53

I do not believe it was just sense. He saw that fist. It might be easier to comprehend if you imagine the scene where Naruto in Kyuubified but uncontrolled mode was avoiding the attacks coming from Haku. He didn't see that, just felt or sensed.

That sensing might be caused by many things, sixth-sense, noise, smell, change in air characteristics, etc. Some might be more sensitive than the others, but at the end, there is some sense involved.

raikage

2006-09-12, 02:27

I agree with Yellow Flash on this one.

(Yeah, I'm surprised, too.) :uhoh:

Sure, from what we've seen top-ninjas do have a vague sense of, "there's something behind me".

They do not have a sense of, "there is one kunai and three shuriken aimed at my left leg."

They might be able to feel an opponent's sense of frustration/anger/bloodlust. They cannot feel a single fist shaking in their direction. It's too specific.

kimimaru_angel

2006-09-12, 09:39

i would hav the byakugan

tkdtiger

2006-09-15, 00:46

Just because you can't see a change in the byakugan doesn't mean it doesn't have levels. Infact the byakugan imo does have levels. You have the regular byakugan that's their normal eyes then you have the activated byakugan, but then the third level is that you can see the tenketsu points on an individual. We don't know if their is another level, but from what I can tell it seems that Kish. loves to have things in 3's...It's possible that the byakugan always slightly activated. Wasn't it said that the Hyuuga clan was the strongest clan in Konoha? Neji out of the Hyuuga has the most potential in advancing the Byakugan if there was another level to it since he inherited that gift stronger then any hyuuga clan member.

Hage-bai

2006-09-15, 02:11

The Sharingan may definetly be superior in many ways (but definetly not all). It's a shame Itachi destroyed the Uchihas and Sasuke committed treason. I would like to have seen more competition between the Hyuuga clan and the Uchihas.

Wrath of the Uchiha

2006-09-15, 03:54

I doubt we'll see more of the Byakugan, it doesn't have much purpose plotwise, right now Kishi is making out Sharingan to be the best thing since sliced bread :/

tkdtiger

2006-09-15, 11:36

Rurik

2006-09-15, 11:39

Nah I think plot wise theres still alot for the byakugan, but I think it will be towards the end of the series. Theres still the rivalry between the uchiha's and hyuuga I mean there are still 2 that exists and I think theres still more that Hinata atleasts wants to prove. Not to mention there appears to be a rivalry between Gai and Kisame and one of Gai's student is a Hyuuga.

Such Rivalry (if it does exist), was created by the fans not the author.

Each time Naruto gets upgraded with new abilities, the less, -plot wise-, it will be for the Hyuga to have a noticeable upgrade to equal the Uchihas.

tkdtiger

2006-09-15, 11:42

Rurik

2006-09-15, 11:50

As I recalled it was said that the Hyuuga thought the Sharingan was inferior to the Byakugan, but it's been a while since I went that far back, but I do think I remember that there was a hint of a rivalry between the two clan's .

Such thing was not said, the closest I could think of is:

Ten Ten: Wondering which is stronger, Huyga Neji (the top rookie from a year before) or Sasuke (theTop Rookie of the current year).

Kakashi: The Hyugas are the noblest Konoha clan.

Kakshi: The Byakugan has better insight than the Sharingan.

Hiashi : The Hyugas are the strongest.

tkdtiger

2006-09-15, 11:53

Such thing was not said, the closest I could think of is:

Ten Ten: Wondering which is stronger, Huyga Neji (the top rookie from a year before) or Sasuke (theTop Rookie of the current year).

Kakashi: The Hyugas are the noblest Konoha clan.

Kakshi: The Byakugan has better insight than the Sharingan.

Hiashi : The Hyugas are the strongest.
Your right I looked back : ) althought it still appears that there might be an encounter between a Hyuuga and a Uchiha to me as Hiashi does state that the Hyuga's are the strongest, but your right that's just a fan's speculation ; )

ri0

2006-09-18, 06:52

Hiashi was reffering to the present... I too think that there's no other Clan that could take on Hyuuga. But what if we go back 10 years in time?

Ichimaru

2006-09-18, 07:33

what i wanna know is, why has there been no other attempts to kidnap a byukugan?? since konoha is low on numbers

Rurik

2006-10-19, 16:01

:heh: Talk About better late than never.....
what i wanna know is, why has there been no other attempts to kidnap a byukugan?? since konoha is low on numbers

Koonoha might be low un Number, but someone trying to Kidnap a member of the Huyga Family is practically declaration of war, given the 5 countries peace treaty, I really doubt they could try it again, given Sand could give Konoha Aid in the war.

Remember that The Guys who tried to Kidnapped Hinata try to do it in secret and that Konoha was willing to Sacrifice a Shinoby just to keep the peace.

Just a wild guess.

tkdtiger

2006-10-19, 19:13

Hiashi was reffering to the present... I too think that there's no other Clan that could take on Hyuuga. But what if we go back 10 years in time?

Nah I don't nec. think he was refering to the present I think he's basing it on his own opinon and prob. is based on clan pride.

Airotia

2006-10-23, 11:28

I find the Byakugan more useful, simply because by using it, you can render your opponent's limbs and vital organs useless, as opposed to simply seeing and copying what your opponent is doing--which, most likely, they'll be able to counter, anyways. The Sharingan looks cooler, and, admittedly, it's harder to tell that someone has the Sharingan because when it's not activated, it looks like normal eyes, but, overally, the Byakugan is much more useful.

Soultis Rayn

2006-10-23, 11:42

I want red eyes, so I'd probably go with Byakugan and just paint 'em red

tkdtiger

2006-10-30, 15:36

you know even if you can copy a technique though if you're slightly less skilled then your opponent he'll stil prop. over power you, if you're equal in strength you'll more then likely just cancel out the technique. Their for you not only need the ability to copy the technique you have to be able to the technique atleast a little better or useing it as a surprise seems to be what makes the sharingan advantageus.

Suna no tate

2006-10-30, 20:03

Byukugan. See chakra flow as well as sharingan, but without the weaknesses. Sharingan's genjutus can be blocked by thin cloths or helmets and a high level ninja already is taught anti-genjutus techniques. Sharingan copy ability can't see hand seals if they are hidden. Sharingan user will almost always be at adisadvantage when copying jutsus, simply because the other guy will have had more experience with them. Byukugan has no weaknesses except for that slight blind spot and who needs the copy ability anyway? I could care less about their jutsus, I think they're foolish and only slight better than regular taijutsus. A punch to the face that rips your head off vs a poke on a critical chakra pore. its all the same in terms of damage. But the vision... amazing.

Still if I could choose any set of eyes, I might hold out for those of the Akatsuki leader or the zetsu. The leader has cool looking pupils, and zetsu must have some sort of special vision as he can see through the ground over miles of distances. Plus his are just creepy looking

Rurik

2006-10-30, 20:25

Sharingan's genjutus can be blocked by thin cloths or helmets and a high level ninja already is taught anti-genjutus techniques.

But of course they are...Thats why nobody uses Genjutsu, because they are so easily blocked...

Read the Manga and see why all the genjutsu just cant be blocked as you say and then even if high level Shinolby are teach how to dispel Genjutsu, that does not make them immune to every Genjutsus.

Sharingan copy ability can't see hand seals if they are hidden. Sharingan user will almost always be at adisadvantage when copying jutsus, simply because the other guy will have had more experience with them.
So what? its the Psychological Chock rather than the use of the Jutsu, go see The first fight With Zaubza and Kakshi, besides that, you forgot that SHaringan once it see the Jutsu it Understand it and Cancels its effect...not to mention Sharingan Predict movements and see the Chakr flow just like the Byakugan..

Byukugan has no weaknesses except for that slight blind spot and who needs the copy ability anyway? I could care less about their jutsus, I think they're foolish and only slight better than regular taijutsus. A punch to the face that rips your head off vs a poke on a critical chakra pore. its all the same in terms of damage. But the vision... amazing.
The problem is that a "Critical poke on a critical chakra pore" is not a Abilty of the Byakugan, that's Jyuken..so if you are not Teach the Jyuken, Seen the Tenketsus will prove useless -if you can see them, because not every Byakugan user can see them.

Wiht the Sharringan an Inexperienced user with a recently gained Sharingan goes from been a mediocre Shinoby to a good one. wereas you can find Experienced Byakugan user that are average at best.

Suna no tate

2006-10-30, 22:25

fatez

2006-10-31, 01:09

Rurik

2006-10-31, 08:37

What I meant was that yeah you might be able to learn the jutsu right then and there but it doesn't mean you know how to use it expertly. Like a person may learn how to move all the pieces in chess but takes him years to learn how to win and even longer to become a master of the game. My point is the sharingan user may learn the jutsu then and there but he won't have the experience with the jutsu. The higher level the jutsu the harder it will be for the sharingan user to effectively use and thus the copying ability's use is diminished.

Lets say I had a jutsu where I could teleport and it used hand seals, but in order to use it I have to have just the right amount of light in the room because if there is too much light or too little light I will lose all my chakra and fall down. Not only will I know how to use it from a technical stand point, but I'll have all the nuances down. The sharingan user may copy it and teleport himself into a wall. Or he may use it in a situation where its not suited, like teleporting where there is too much light or too much dark The example I give is a bit exaggerated but you see my point. A low level jutsu like a water clone or a fireball jutsu is simple enough to use immediately. Something higher level and more propietary in nature however is best to leave uncopied as trying to use it against the creator of the jutsu might get you killed because of your inexperience with it.

And were did oyu read that someone needs to be experienced to use the Jutsu effectively???? Could you tell me the Manga Chapter?

In fact, that’s the point of Sharingan, Understanding the Jutsu, so someone that Did not know the Jutsu can do it exactly as the person who perform it, so there is nothing you could use as an example to say that An experience User have the Upper hand on A Sharingan user on the Jutsu, check out how Zabuza was defeated by his on Jutsu.

All the other benefits of the sharingan can be gained with training or are also present with the byukagan.

Yeah right, SO Prediction of Movement, Canceling Powerful Genjutsu, Being able to see Chakra flow, Have better use of Genjutsu can be learned with hard training by anybody. In this 4 I mentioned the only one that we know is present is seen the Chakra flow. And I have not even Touch the upper levels of sharingan been that the MS jutsus.

Xrayz0r

2006-10-31, 08:58

And were did oyu read that someone needs to be experienced to use the Jutsu effectively???? Could you tell me the Manga Chapter?
Aside from the fact that that's a really dumb question (I surely hope it was not to be taken seriously), no one has ever mentioned "effectively".
I don't wish to butt into your heated debate but I will anyway. The guy you quoted said expertly, not effectively. If you just read his post over and over again like three hundred times to perhaps understand a little better, his example did make the guy use the jutsu effectively, just not expertly, hence he ended up inside a wall and died. (teh irony)

I guess the example is pretty much perfect. With Sharingan you get to copy and fully understand the move, like instantly you're an expert at performing the jutsu. Yet you have never used it before and so you won't be able to so it to its fullest potential. You are an expert at activating the jutsu, not using it, and not choosing the best time or situation to use it. Because all you learned is now the amount of chakra to use, where to send it, how to control or manipulate it, which handseals to use and so on to get the jutsu working. In order to become a master of the jutsu, actual experience is needed.

Sharingan skips training, that's the way we should see it. Whereas regular people have to train for years/months/weeks whatever, Sharingan makes you get the jutsu in an isntant. Still there's requirements to jutsu such as chakra control, capicity or a special trait/ability that might make them copyable but not usable unless certain condition (such as I just stated), plus the fact that someone experienced at using a certain jutsu will do a better job using it in battle than someone who just copied it.

Rurik

2006-10-31, 09:05

Aside from the fact that that's a really dumb question (I surely hope it was not to be taken seriously), no one has ever mentioned "effectively".

I don't wish to butt into your heated debate but I will anyway. The guy you quoted said expertly, not effectively. If you just read his post over and over again like three hundred times to perhaps understand a little better, his example did make the guy use the jutsu effectively, just not expertly, hence he ended up inside a wall and died. (teh irony)

I guess the example is pretty much perfect. With Sharingan you get to copy and fully understand the move, like instantly you're an expert at performing the jutsu. Yet you have never used it before and so you won't be able to so it to its fullest potential. You are an expert at activating the jutsu, not using it, and not choosing the best time or situation to use it. Because all you learned is now the amount of chakra to use, where to send it, how to control or manipulate it, which handseals to use and so on to get the jutsu working. In order to become a master of the jutsu, actual experience is needed.

Sharingan skips training, that's the way we should see it. Whereas regular people have to train for years/months/weeks whatever, Sharingan makes you get the jutsu in an isntant. Still there's requirements to jutsu such as chakra control, capicity or a special trait/ability that might make them copyable but not usable unless certain condition (such as I just stated), plus the fact that someone experienced at using a certain jutsu will do a better job using it in battle than someone who just copied it.

Read my post to understand it well:

“And were did you read that someone needs to be experienced to use the Jutsu effectively????”

In other words, is had not been mention that you need Experince to know how to use a Jutsu. So Saying that a Sharingan user will have a disadvanatge of Recently Copied Jutsu against someone that knows it for more time is an invetion, and Kakashi defeting Zabuza with a recentley copied Jutsu from Zabuza proves this observation wrong.

Xrayz0r

2006-10-31, 09:40

In other words, is had not been mention that you need Experince to know how to use a Jutsu. .
EXACTLY! EXPERIENCE IS NOT NEEDED TO KNOW HOW TO USE A JUTSU!

WHO THE HELL SAID OTHERWISE?

=D

I shall pepeat, experience is needed to use the jutsu EXPERTLY. There's a difference: expertly, effectively. Learn it.
Effectively is being able to (per)form the jutsu. It's like (lame example) you're able to form an actual Rasengan but unable to use it in batte. It's like you're able to use Hiraishin but you end up transporting into a bottomless cliff.

Lee has gained stamina because of his 00ber taijutsu training of years. Years of Taijutsu training, body gets used to it, adapts, gets stronger, that stuff. Sasuke copies movements, is able to perform those movements perfectly, yet can't keep it up for long cause his stamina his way lower, gets tired really fast.

Boom!, copied jutsu disadvantage, I just gave ya one. Don't deny it, don't avoid, face it.

Now the same goes for the mind. For ninjutsu it's a little different cause your body can't exactly adapt to it and I can't use the same example. Still what happens with your body from taijutsu, the same happens in your mind for ninjutsu. One can copy your jutsu and know how to activate it, but you've got the knowledge on how to use it best, which situation to use it in, which combo's to use it in (just stating exampes). You've got a history of using the jutsu. You have learned from perhaps your mistakes, or events in which you made good use of it. You remember those and they improve your ability of using the jutsu to an ever rising potential.
Someone who copies it doesn't have this knowledge, this experience. He just knows how to activate it. And the way to use it is completely up to him. Whether he can use it suckier or better than you depends on his own skills, which of course after copying it, will be at a minimum (for just that jutsu that is).

Suna no tate

2006-10-31, 09:51

Its just like chess. knowing how to move the pieces from a technical standpoint isn't enough to make you a good player. There are a lot of nuances to chess that must be mastered. I think the same is true of jutsus. Simply knowing the mechanics of a jutsu is one thing, but having the experiences and knowing the nuances behind it takes time and effort. Thats why with high level jutsus that are more propietary in nature, it'd be better not to copy and them immediately use them in battle. You simply will not have had enough experience with that jutsu. So while you may recreate it perfectly, you may not utilize it perfectly. Its like learning to drive. Even if you memorize the manual perfectly, you may not still get the hang of the car for a while.

Rurik

2006-10-31, 09:59

EXACTLY! EXPERIENCE IS NOT NEEDED TO KNOW HOW TO USE A JUTSU!

WHO THE HELL SAID OTHERWISE?

=D
I shall pepeat, experience is needed to use the jutsu EXPERTLY. There's a difference: expertly, effectively. Learn it.

Once again understand my posts, Suna no tate post was talking about someone having an Advantage because you were experienced at using the Jutsu, than the one who copied the Jutsu, this was not stated, this is contradictory.

Lee has gained stamina because of his 00ber taijutsu training of years. Years of Taijutsu training, body gets used to it, adapts, gets stronger, that stuff. Sasuke copies movements, is able to perform those movements perfectly, yet can't keep it up for long cause his stamina his way lower, gets tired really fast.
Now the same goes for the mind. For ninjutsu it's a little different cause your body can't exactly adapt to it and I can't use the same example. Still what happens with your body from taijutsu, the same happens in your mind for ninjutsu. One can copy your jutsu and know how to activate it, but you've got the knowledge on how to use it best, which situation to use it in, which combo's to use it in (just stating exampes). You've got a history of using the jutsu. You have learned from perhaps your mistakes, or events in which you made good use of it. You remember those and they improve your ability of using the jutsu to an ever rising potential.
Someone who copies it doesn't have this knowledge, this experience. He just knows how to activate it. And the way to use it is completely up to him. Whether he can use it suckier or better than you depends on his own skills, which of course after copying it, will be at a minimum (for just that jutsu that is).

We are not talking about the constraint to special physical attributes of the person that performs the Jutsu, we are talking about Jutsu that can be copied by the Sharingan and the user can perform it right there, the only few example you can use are The ones Kakashi Copied: The Water Jutsu and the water Clone.

Both of those Jutsus Kakashi used it as good as Zabuza did. (And I don’t know if you see it like a Jutsu Copy, but the one Itachi use Against Kurenai).

You talked about skill of the person, I could agree with that, but still it does not have nothing to do with the experinece using the Jutsu.

tkdtiger

2006-10-31, 19:43

Isn't it already established that the sharingan is the better eyes? No matter how much you don't like the idea, it is just fact that the sharingan is more powerful. See all them new techniques they came up with to make it seem godly. Poor byakugan.

It's never been stated or established that the sharingan is the better eyes. It's all based on opinion. People will go with the one they like, which is just fine : )

Neji_Hyuuga

2006-11-06, 05:31

I believe that both the Sharingan and the Byakugan has its own use. The Sharingan has the ability see the enemies movements and uncover both ninjutsu and genjutsu ( basic use ). In the other hand, it also has the ability to destroy enemies psychologically using Genjutsu's ( Mangekyoushi Sharingan ), Tsukuyomi Itachi's genjutsu is one example and physically, Amaterasu, Itachi's dojutsu and also kakashi Mangekyoushi dojutsu ( don't know the name though ). These capabilities are indeed fearsome. I believe that Sharingan was more of an attack technique.

Byakugan in the other hand hasn't shown its maximum capabilities. The only thing we know is its sight abilities which could see through barriers and has an average sight area of 360 degrees. IT could also see the flow of chakra and reveal the location of tenketsu and hachimon tonkuo. Furthermore, the Byakugan was specially designed to support the Hyuuga Ryu ( Hakkeshou, Hakke Roku juu yon shou, Shu go hakke, kaiten, and all of those other techniques ). I'm pretty sure that Byakugan was meant more for defence rather than offence.

If you ask me to choose between these two it'll be pretty hard. But i'll have to admit that the Mangekyoushi Sharingan has the upper hand though. Yet who knows what the Byakugan will develop into through out the whole story. I actually prefer both of the dojutsu hehehehehehehehe....;)

Dauthi

2006-11-06, 11:50

I dont see how it can even be a contest. Sure at beginner levels they are about equal, perhaps byakugen excels a bit. Then a mastered sharingan/mange delivers an array of doujutsu that you simply look at them to deliver, on top of an ability to dodge 100% of any attack depending on the speed of the attacker and your own. But since it has predictability, your speed doesnt need to equal theirs, and can be quite a bit lower.

What really makes the byakugen come in last endgame is learning thousands of jutsu with it. Once you have mastered so many jutsu, you become massively versatile, and powerful. While byakugen is predictable, since all their abilities can be known and forseen, you have no clue what a sharingan user is capable of, and probably dont even know of half his jutsu.

Kogepan

2006-11-07, 04:52

would be cool if the byakugan has some unknown secret as well @.@ what if neji finds a way to become freed from the cursed seal, and upon doing so somehow realizes how to evolve the byakugan O.o XD surely if anyone can do it it's him xD just wishful thinking but still ^_^

astayanax

2006-11-07, 17:59

Sharingan starts out better than Byakugan. Seriously, what are you going to do with the ability to see 360 degrees with say 100 kunais flying at you in all directions in a few seconds of having the eye? That is right, you will die. However, a person who just gained Sharingan and is in that same situation WILL dodge EVERY ONE of those kunais because he will be given precise information on the actions needed to dodge it.

Training now with JYUUKEN (and not Byakugan) would more likely give the Byakugan user some advantages IF he was talented to begin with and this is where the difference lies. To be skillful with Byakugan, you have to be talented to begin with. To be skillful with Sharingan, you simply need the eyes.

Its just like chess. knowing how to move the pieces from a technical standpoint isn't enough to make you a good player. There are a lot of nuances to chess that must be mastered. I think the same is true of jutsus. Simply knowing the mechanics of a jutsu is one thing, but having the experiences and knowing the nuances behind it takes time and effort. Thats why with high level jutsus that are more propietary in nature, it'd be better not to copy and them immediately use them in battle. You simply will not have had enough experience with that jutsu. So while you may recreate it perfectly, you may not utilize it perfectly. Its like learning to drive. Even if you memorize the manual perfectly, you may not still get the hang of the car for a while.

If we want to use chess, think of Sharingan as a super computer that is analysing things on the fly every nano second, calculating every action of virtually every possibility of every scenario. Where Sharingan fails as seen in say the first Sasuke vs Lee or Sasuke confrontation vs 1 tailed Naruto before he got his 3 dotted Sharingan is the amount of time needed by the body to react to the information given to it. However, this has nothing to do with the eye itself as it gave the user perfect information.

Everytime sharingan copied a jutsu that we then saw being used; it was used perfectly in the perfect scenario like a true master. However as with Sasuke getting tired using Lee speed for an example, that has nothing to do with him using the jutsu ineffeciently but simply not having the stamina to continue using it which is another thing all together. It can be argued that in the 5 secs Sasuke had his speed up, he was using it better than Rock Lee.

Medalist

2006-11-07, 18:04

Rurik

2006-11-07, 18:06

The tool(sharingan, byakugan) does not make the man(or woman) - Man maks the tool(or woman). Thus Someone with Sharingan or Byakugan vs. Konohamaru per say could still get his/her ass beat if man(or woman) can not use the tool(byakugan or sharingan) she/he hosts wisely.

If you read the Manga you will find that

Obito was a so-so Ninja, after gaining the Sharingan he abstained a very noticeable improvement.

astayanax

2006-11-07, 19:16

If you read the Manga you will find that

Obito was a so-so Ninja, after gaining the Sharingan he abstained a very noticeable improvement.

Or even better, look at how the fight between Sasuke and 1 tailed Naruto completely turned around when Sasuke obtained the 3 dotted Sharingan. It wasn't like Sasuke suddenly turned invincible; but that the eye was giving him all the information he needed at a speed as which he could react.

The best comparison for Sharingan is that of a computer where the more dots it has; the faster and more accurate it becomes. Byakugan at the other hand is more of say a knife, gun or what not. Something that is used; but offers no insight or advice to the user.

s-class uchiha

2006-11-07, 20:55

Or even better, look at how the fight between Sasuke and 1 tailed Naruto completely turned around when Sasuke obtained the 3 dotted Sharingan. It wasn't like Sasuke suddenly turned invincible; but that the eye was giving him all the information he needed at a speed as which he could react.

The best comparison for Sharingan is that of a computer where the more dots it has; the faster and more accurate it becomes. Byakugan at the other hand is more of say a knife, gun or what not. Something that is used; but offers no insight or advice to the user.

Good analogy, although, I think that Byakugan does give insight into Chakara flow, type, capacity, holes etc.

The real interesting thing is that the hyuuga used the byakugan to develop a specific fighting style from it ie the Jyuuken. I think that would be awesome if they just switched all their taijutsu to jyuuken taijutsu, but they seemed to have forsaken (not in being able to, but not using it in a fight... kinda like you know calculus but don't use it in real life) traditional genjutsu and ninjutsu.

This is one thing the Uchiha Clan was smart in - they capatilized in all fighting areas and let the sharingan enhance their abilities and not go into some specific way of fighting. Obviously they have a natural affinity towards katon and the special MS abilities of the Sharingan, but for the most part sharingan users are beefed up regular people.

I wonder what about the byakugan makes the Hyuuga go specifically into a radically different style of fighting?

Instead of it complimenting an established repetoire, like the Uchiha, they went into a unique style like Nara and Akmichi clans. Makes sense, considering just about everyone else in Konoha did that:heh:

I would think that Orochimaru would super dope w/ some hyuuga eyes...

samurai_yotashi

2006-11-08, 07:45

So wut would u rather have and why? Byukugan or Sharingan? I would rather have byukugan cuz u get a 360 degree view and it looks pretty darn cool. sharingan looks cool too but i think byukugan is more usefull.

dude! totaly and deffinatly the Sharingun. hands down! :frustrated: dude, it would be soooooooo cool to be able to cope a bunch of jutsu like that!

Medalist

2006-11-08, 08:11

Sasuke vs. Naruto Tail 1 - that was a fight Naruto had to lose before it started.

Suna no tate

2006-11-08, 08:50

Rurik

2006-11-08, 09:09

I've always disagreed that copying a skill instantly makes you a master of the skill. Copying a skill means copying the hand seals and having the skill level to pull it off. Does that makes the user the master of the skill? I think not. In fact, copying a propietary skill and trying to immediately use it in battle againt the proprietor would probably be a bad thing simply because while you may know the mechanics of the skill (hand seals and chakra amount and etc), there's more to using a skill efficiently than just that. A good example would be during the training before Sasuke's defection and naruto's team was training with kakashi. He told them to get the bells of him or something. Anyway, in that training at one point, naruto tries to use the kage bunshin against kakashi. kakashi after it was all said and done told naruto this "think before you use a jutsu or it will be used against you". My point is if you copy a jutsu, you may still be inexperienced with it. Lets the say the jutsu you copied was a special roundhouse kick and you try it in battle and use it expertly in perfect form, except because you were inexperienced with it, you used it in a situation where you were open to being hit with a sweep kick and then you lose the fight. That I think can be applied to all copied ninjutsu. But it does seem like simpler jutsus are simpler to use. Only a dummy would screw up using a water clone in the wrong situation. But someone might copy and use chidori in the wrong situation or copy it and use it too many times unaware of the limitations, or copy it and fail to see its weakness. You can copy a jutsu and if you're inexperienced with it, while your form of it is expert and the mechanics perfect, may use it in a compromising way. Thats really the whole point.

And your point is right, but not on the mark, Yes someone that copy a Jutsu maybe wont know the Jutsu as well as the one who has 100 Years using it, but as shown more than once, a Copied Jutsu by the Sharingan was used even better than the person that had more experience Using the Jutsu.

Your examples you put as the Roundhouse Kick and Chidory are quite simple:

For a Round House Kick the one who is going to Copy the kick, will still have the Sharingan, so even after throwing the kick, he will have the Sharingan to counter a sweep kick. In Fontal combat, the Sharingan has no flaws.

For the Chidory, The Ninjas are very well aware of how much chakra they have left compared to the Jutsu they can do, not to mention the limitations of Chidory are reciprocal to the Persons Chakra capacity.

But let look it at this perspective, The persons that has sharingan are genius, Sasuke copied Primary Lotus, and in the Prelim Sasuke practically pull it of, but at the end he used his genius and created his own style of Combo, in other words he copied a Jutsu and adjusted himself in order to do a variation of the Jutsu he copied and probrably could not do wiht his actual physycal conditions.

tkdtiger

2006-11-08, 10:02

And your point is right, but not on the mark, Yes someone that copy a Jutsu maybe wont know the Jutsu as well as the one who has 100 Years using it, but as shown more than once, a Copied Jutsu by the Sharingan was used even better than the person that had more experience Using the Jutsu.

Your examples you put as the Roundhouse Kick and Chidory are quite simple:

For a Round House Kick the one who is going to Copy the kick, will still have the Sharingan, so even after throwing the kick, he will have the Sharingan to counter a sweep kick. In Fontal combat, the Sharingan has no flaws.

For the Chidory, The Ninjas are very well aware of how much chakra they have left compared to the Jutsu they can do, not to mention the limitations of Chidory are reciprocal to the Persons Chakra capacity.

But let look it at this perspective, The persons that has sharingan are genius, Sasuke copied Primary Lotus, and in the Prelim Sasuke practically pull it of, but at the end he used his genius and created his own style of Combo, in other words he copied a Jutsu and adjusted himself in order to do a variation of the Jutsu he copied and probrably could not do wiht his actual physycal conditions.

I agree with you with many aspects, but just because someone has Sharingan does not make them automatically a genius. I think the people we saw with Sharingan were already for the most part considered a genius. At the same token lets say you're able to copy a technique, but if the person is so far ahead of you in the skill then you'll still prob. lose. It's been shown that if a sharingan user is fighting at equal strength that they just cancels each other out. Now what you discribed was really a combination of the Sharingan and the Ninja's in this case Sasuke's ability to to compensate for his or her weakness. In other words Sasuke didn't win just by using Sharingan, but had to be able to change or adjust, which is the product of his own ability not the Sharingan. Which is a variation of what Kakashi said that a ninja cannot win with the Sharingan alone. They Byakugan though can see 360 degrees and also see things in extreme details. After looking back it does seem to imply that the Byakugan can see past certain illusions, such as shadow clones, since normal shadow clones does not have chakra, which is why Neji was able to determine that quickly that Naruto's clones weren't just illusions, which Neji stated. Of course those were living things and it's unkown if that would work on other illususions. Personally I don't think one is better then the other, but purely depends on the the user and how he or she is able to adjust to various obstacles.

Rurik

2006-11-08, 10:56

I agree with you with many aspects, but just because someone has Sharingan does not make them automatically a genius. I think the people we saw with Sharingan were already for the most part considered a genius. At the same token lets say you're able to copy a technique, but if the person is so far ahead of you in the skill then you'll still prob. lose. It's been shown that if a sharingan user is fighting at equal strength that they just cancels each other out. Now what you discribed was really a combination of the Sharingan and the Ninja's in this case Sasuke's ability to to compensate for his or her weakness. In other words Sasuke didn't win just by using Sharingan, but had to be able to change or adjust, which is the product of his own ability not the Sharingan. Which is a variation of what Kakashi said that a ninja cannot win with the Sharingan alone. They Byakugan though can see 360 degrees and also see things in extreme details. After looking back it does seem to imply that the Byakugan can see past certain illusions, such as shadow clones, since normal shadow clones does not have chakra, which is why Neji was able to determine that quickly that Naruto's clones weren't just illusions, which Neji stated. Of course those were living things and it's unkown if that would work on other illususions. Personally I don't think one is better then the other, but purely depends on the the user and how he or she is able to adjust to various obstacles.

Two Things here, You got my Quote Wrong, When I said “The persons that has sharingan are genius”, I was not saying that Sharingan makes you a genius (well, Rock Lee stated different), is rather, the ones that wields the Sharingan are genius Ninjas, The Uchiha was a clan of Geniuses and Kakashi is a genius. In other words, the person that use Sharingan are not your drop out type of Shiniboby.

So, When I was talking about Sasuke, I was explaining why Someone with the Sharingan will not find himself in the predicament of “I don’t have experience with the Jutsu I copied and hence I would have trouble is I used against somebody that knows how to use it”, because Just like Sasuke, Itachi and Kakashi (and practically all the Uchihas) are genius, so they will copy a Jutsu and they will know how to use it or think of a way to use it as good as the person that Jutsu was copied from.

And last of all, Neeji could tell with the Byakugan that Naruto made Kage Bushin, because he saw all the bodies as equal, but His Byakugan could not tell who was the Real one from the Clones.

MobiuS

2006-11-08, 11:17

And last of all, Neeji could tell with the Byakugan that Naruto made Kage Bushin, because he saw all the bodies as equal, but His Byakugan could not tell who was the Real one from the Clones.

Sharingan wont tell you the real one either.

IMO Byakugan > Sharingan for most combat situations. MS is a different story however.

Dauthi

2006-11-08, 12:41

Sharingan starts out better than Byakugan. Seriously, what are you going to do with the ability to see 360 degrees with say 100 kunais flying at you in all directions in a few seconds of having the eye? That is right, you will die. However, a person who just gained Sharingan and is in that same situation WILL dodge EVERY ONE of those kunais because he will be given precise information on the actions needed to dodge it.

Training now with JYUUKEN (and not Byakugan) would more likely give the Byakugan user some advantages IF he was talented to begin with and this is where the difference lies. To be skillful with Byakugan, you have to be talented to begin with. To be skillful with Sharingan, you simply need the eyes.

If we want to use chess, think of Sharingan as a super computer that is analysing things on the fly every nano second, calculating every action of virtually every possibility of every scenario. Where Sharingan fails as seen in say the first Sasuke vs Lee or Sasuke confrontation vs 1 tailed Naruto before he got his 3 dotted Sharingan is the amount of time needed by the body to react to the information given to it. However, this has nothing to do with the eye itself as it gave the user perfect information.

Everytime sharingan copied a jutsu that we then saw being used; it was used perfectly in the perfect scenario like a true master. However as with Sasuke getting tired using Lee speed for an example, that has nothing to do with him using the jutsu ineffeciently but simply not having the stamina to continue using it which is another thing all together. It can be argued that in the 5 secs Sasuke had his speed up, he was using it better than Rock Lee.

Actually im inclined to believe that the Byakugen can be used from a very young age, and possibly does not need to be developed like Sharingan. Even non-genious ninjas like hinata was using it very early. So taking this into account, a byakugen user will on average have jutsu already based on byakugen while a sharingan user may not even have it yet, giving the advantage to byakugen. Even an average (non-genious jyuuken user) will be good wielding the strongest hand to hand technique (and we have seen hinata and hinata's sister doing this at a VERY young age).

On top of that, seeing around and through things would be quite a bit useful, even compared to a recently developed sharingan (which could dodge, but only to a low extent). Dodging would be the sharingan user's only advantage, having not had battles with it yet.

As for skill levels, i could have sworn there are genious' in both sharingan clans and byakugen. For instance, some sharingan users may not ever get a 3 dotted sharingan, and some byakugen users may not see past say 200 degrees.

On top of that, it is pretty much proven you have to train to become skillful with the sharingan as well, as kakashi has just learned a new technique through the timeskip by training. At the same time, byakugen users must train jyuuken to obtain these new techniques. Again, both seem to take an amount of skill/time to train.

Rurik

2006-11-08, 13:01

As for skill levels, i could have sworn there are genious' in both sharingan clans and byakugen. For instance, some sharingan users may not ever get a 3 dotted sharingan, and some byakugen users may not see past say 200 degrees.

Nope, The Uchiha Clan was a Clan Of Geniuses, the Hyuga Clan is not known to be like that, however they do have geniuses, (Neeji is an example). and genius are not abaout the power of the Bloddline, is about how good this person could be Naturallly.

And Look at the difference

Hinata having Years using the Byakugan and still was a drop out Shinoby, Obito passed from been a so-so Ninja, and in the moment she gained the Sharingan his level Changed considerable

On top of that, it is pretty much proven you have to train to become skillful with the sharingan as well, as kakashi has just learned a new technique through the timeskip by training. At the same time, byakugen users must train jyuuken to obtain these new techniques. Again, both seem to take an amount of skill/time to train.

You have train to become Skillful with the Sharingan, but you don’t have to train to use it, Sasuke demonstrated that when he awoke the Sharingan, and troughs the Chunin Test, Also What Jutsu Kakshi train for? Are you talking about the MS? Because we Don’t know still how Kakashi gain the MS.

MobiuS

2006-11-08, 13:39

Sharingan is essentially a massive plothole making device. The eye can do everything from genjutsu to analysis to creating black fire to even making a peanut butter sandwich on demand.

Once you get the eye, you gain so much info off it you cannot help but be a great ninja.

Kakashi failed with Chidori on one target. He got 1 sharingan and was immediately able to run through multiple targets ... thanks to overanalysis.

Obito is the classic example. Sasuke as well, in two different scenarios.

Haku was in charge of the battle till Sasuke got the eyes that allowed him to see Haku refracting at high speed. Sasuke's eyes upgraded, allowing him to take on a jink (well, dodge quite a lot, not really heavy on the damage side).

We saw when Kakashi lost his sharingan on the bridge with Haku and Zabuza that he was essentially a chump, taking beatings left right and centre, and had to summon to be able to win the battle.

Sharingan is THE powerup. It can make Konohomaru > 3rd Hokage.

Byakugan is more of a skilltool. Yet when harnessed properly ... it does what the Sharingan does and more. Ill explain in more detail if someone doesnt understand what I mean.

My main point: Sharingan = hax. Byakugan = 1337skillz

Zu Ra

2006-11-08, 13:50

I think MS should not be taken into consideration . Only Itachi uses MS and its variant is used by Kakashi .

MS is not an integral part of Sharingam its more like a taboo for sharingam bloodline . IF ( big if ) Uchicha clan was still exsisitant we wouldnt be taking MS into consideration . Beacause Uchicha clan just has two shinobis only we take MS into consideration . If this is purely Sharingam vs Byakugan . Byakugan has the upper hand .

Also I am biased against Sharingam coz Hard Gei Sauckay :heh: uses it , If we just take Itachi as an Epitome for Sharingam , Sharingam wins hand down .

DAmer

2006-11-08, 13:59

Uchicha is supposed to be the strongest clan in the naruto world because of the sharingan. Only title Byakugan has vs sharingan is that it has better insight and that its from one of the most noble clan in konoha.

Rurik

2006-11-08, 15:23

Kogepan

2006-11-08, 15:26

My main point: Sharingan = hax. Byakugan = 1337skillz

agreed :heh:

inferno_grl

2006-11-08, 16:00

MobiuS

2006-11-08, 16:09

i'm srry... but isn't the sharingan i runnoff or weaker version of byakuga. but none the less i'll still rather have sharingan. reds my thing. it seems more nessisary in a fight to. but then again...:rolleyes:

Sharingan is a result of Byakugan doing something Im not too sure of. Either way, Byakugan was the root, Sharingan followed. However Im not quite sure where I picked this up but I know I did see it somewhere before.

Ild say Sharingan was more "user friendly". Think of Sharingan as Windows XP and Byakugan as MS DOS.

DAmer

2006-11-08, 16:20

i'm srry... but isn't the sharingan i runnoff or weaker version of byakuga. but none the less i'll still rather have sharingan. reds my thing. it seems more nessisary in a fight to. but then again...:rolleyes:

Sharingan is more like the evolved version of byakugan. Think of one fight in the whole series where the byakugan would have won but not the sharingan. I know you cant... , but im sure you can think of plenty of instances where byakugan loses but sharingan wins. The whole power of hyugaa clan is only half concentrated on byakugan and half on the whole releasing chakra through chakra holes bit. So if you talk about hyugaa vs Uchiha then maybe hyugaa has the better edge. But if your talking about sharingan vs byakugan then there is no doubt about it, sharingan is way better.

Sabaku Kyu

2006-11-08, 17:26

Sharingan is THE powerup. It can make Konohomaru > 3rd Hokage.

My main point: Sharingan = hax. Byakugan = 1337skillz

I'm not sure about that. What you're saying implies that Sharingan takes less skill to use/master than Byakugan . Byakugan by itself is not anymore difficult to perform than Sharingan, in fact I think it's been stated by others in this thread that it may be easier because Hyuuga clan members inherit their abilities at an earlier age. Byakugan is used to enhance skills like Jyuuken and Kaiten just as Sharingan is used to enhance taijutsu and certain techniques like chidori. It can be used to copy techniques, but that skill is limited and Sharingan users must still train to become proficient with the techniques. As far as the advantages in vision, Sharingan is different from Byakugan but I don't see how it is more 'user-friendly'.

If you're talking in the sense that Sharingan is overpowered, then yeah, I'll agree with you as far as MS is concerned. Tsukuyomi, Amatersu and Kakashi's warp are almost ridiculously powerful. But these characters were already exceptional geniuses anyway who had already developed their Sharingan to the utmost capabilties. MS isn't obtainable by any ordinary Uchiha. In this way, MS can be considered to be similar to any other Kage lvl technique in that we can assume only already powerful characters can gain it.

So, I wouldn't say that the Sharingan takes less skill to use than Byakugan. I'd say that Sharingan carries more possibilties.

Byakugan is more of a skilltool. Yet when harnessed properly ... it does what the Sharingan does and more. Ill explain in more detail if someone doesnt understand what I mean.

Hmm? How can the Byakugan replicate effects such as the Sharingan's ability to copy techniques. Or do you just mean that Byakugan can be used to overcome any challenges that Sharingan can?

tkdtiger

2006-11-08, 18:35

Two Things here, You got my Quote Wrong, When I said “The persons that has sharingan are genius”, I was not saying that Sharingan makes you a genius (well, Rock Lee stated different), is rather, the ones that wields the Sharingan are genius Ninjas, The Uchiha was a clan of Geniuses and Kakashi is a genius. In other words, the person that use Sharingan are not your drop out type of Shiniboby.

So, When I was talking about Sasuke, I was explaining why Someone with the Sharingan will not find himself in the predicament of “I don’t have experience with the Jutsu I copied and hence I would have trouble is I used against somebody that knows how to use it”, because Just like Sasuke, Itachi and Kakashi (and practically all the Uchihas) are genius, so they will copy a Jutsu and they will know how to use it or think of a way to use it as good as the person that Jutsu was copied from.

And last of all, Neeji could tell with the Byakugan that Naruto made Kage Bushin, because he saw all the bodies as equal, but His Byakugan could not tell who was the Real one from the Clones.

I just don't see the difference in saying that the Sharingan makes the person a genius and the person who wields the sharingan is a genius. For example if the person is a genius, because he wields sharingan then it's the sharingan that makes him a genius? Isn't this what you were saying?Yes, Sharingan may make the person have a noticable improvement, but the same can be said about a more advanced byakugan user. That does not mean they were geniuses, but rather it meant that they had much improvement. In other words a person can be horrible to average and a significant improvement they would only be above average, but not necessarily at genius levels. I think you misunderstood what I said. I meant that Naruto's Kage Bunshin are not illusions in that they have chakra coils, thus he could not tell which was the real naruto and thus he was also able to quickly determine that it was not a normal shadow clone. A normal shadow clones would not have the chakra coils from what I understood, but then I could have misinterpreted the differences associate with normal clones and Naruto's clones. I personally do not think either are more powerful then the other. I do agree that a Sharingan user as with any ninja in the Naruto universe wouldn't purposely put themselves in that predicament. Well maybe with the exception of Naruto himself, who seems to always jump into situations. The thing is alot of the things you said are not direct consquences of the sharingan, but are indirect consequences. Another thing yes the sharingan can copy techniques, but if they are less experienced then there is always the possibility that they cannot physically do the skill, which means the sharingan can only copy techniques that would be useful of people who are equal or near your skill level. For example in order for Sasuke had to learn to handle high speeds and trained with Kakashi so he could use chidori, but as you can see he has to train his body in order to use the sharingan correctly and it's the same with the byakugan user. The eyes are useless if you don't train other areas. Maybe I got it wrong, but that's how I interpreted many things. If I'm misinterpreting many things then I would love for you to explain many things. I dunno maybe I'm looking too deep into stuff

Suna no tate

2006-11-08, 19:14

Actually I have a question. Does the sharingan protect against genjutsu or is genjutsu protection dependent on the users already attained skill? Is itachi immune to genjutsu because of his sharingan or is it because he was already a pretty high level ninja to where genjutsu in general wouldn't work on him? Does the byakugan give genjutsu protection?

astayanax

2006-11-08, 20:15

Sharingan is a result of Byakugan doing something Im not too sure of. Either way, Byakugan was the root, Sharingan followed. However Im not quite sure where I picked this up but I know I did see it somewhere before.

Ild say Sharingan was more "user friendly". Think of Sharingan as Windows XP and Byakugan as MS DOS.

Actually Sharingan is more of a super computer compared to Byakugan which is a 360 degree microscope.

Actually I have a question. Does the sharingan protect against genjutsu or is genjutsu protection dependent on the users already attained skill? Is itachi immune to genjutsu because of his sharingan or is it because he was already a pretty high level ninja to where genjutsu in general wouldn't work on him? Does the byakugan give genjutsu protection?

Neither really. The Sharingan can see through genjutsus informing the user what it is. Itachi genjutsu counter is more of his mastery in genjutsu (he is the best in the series) than the sharingan itself.

inferno_grl

2006-11-08, 20:42

but then again... kakashi did say that the sharingan was ran off from the byakuga. which would mean that the byakuga was stronger. and that the sharingan was a weaker version of it. i can't remember the exact words but he said something like that. he said something like it came from the blood line of those of the byakuga. i think he was explaining why hinata and neji's stannses were exactly the same.

Ziv

2006-11-08, 21:13

Sharingan definately. It would be the equivalent of having all those computer programs from the matrix that teach you how to do almost anything. I see someone juggling, use the sharingan, and juggle just as well as he can. I see someone painting a picture and paint one just as good right next to them. It has tons of nifty uses on top of its combat usefulness.

It's never been stated or established that the sharingan is the better eyes. It's all based on opinion. People will go with the one they like, which is just fine : )

I remember kakashi specifically saying that the sharingan is better. I believe he was commenting on the byakugan and noted that although the byakugan is superior at information gathering, the sharingan is better overall.

DAmer

2006-11-08, 21:25

MobiuS

2006-11-08, 21:33

astayanax

2006-11-08, 22:10

@ Sabaku Kyu

Obito and a bunch of people prove that Sharingan is "skill in a box" type of ability. Byakugan however, takes mad skill. I dont know if the fillers can be proof here but ... Hinata learning to use it properly to microanalyse environment?

With the range and 360 ability of the Byakugan, you could completely analyse an enemy before they even get close enough to attack. But its not a granted ability. You need to train it hard.

Im sure most of the Byakuyas are slouches ... but when one really does work (Neji) they show exceptional skill beyond their level. The vision, the analysis, the movesets .... sweet lord.

Of course most people would rather have a Sharingan, since as soon as you get it, you become a legend.

Neji (and his uncle) proves what talented people can do with the Byakugan; but at the end of the day it is no 'haxx' eye that always give you the correct information about things around you and even how to avoid/counter it if you are good enough. As good as Neji is with the Byakugan for example, he will be so much better with the Sharingan it isn't funny.

Sabaku Kyu

2006-11-08, 22:21

Obito and a bunch of people prove that Sharingan is "skill in a box" type of ability. Byakugan however, takes mad skill. I dont know if the fillers can be proof here but ... Hinata learning to use it properly to microanalyse environment?

And by a "bunch of people" you mean just Obito because he is the only Sharingan user we've seen who wasn't considered a genius. Even that doesn't really prove much. With the Sharingan he didn't all of a sudden become an amazing fighter. He was able to kill one rock nin by seeing through his camoflague and his taijutsu was enhanced to the point where he was able to help Kakashi (a jounin) defeat the second rock nin two-on-one. Hardly the stuff of legends. But anyway, even a genius like Sasuke must work to develop his Sharingan. That's why Sasuke lost when he first fought Rock Lee, he assumed that the Sharingan alone would allow him to match any opponent, but we saw that wasn't the case. You need to train your Sharingan abilities just as you do the Byakugan or else it won't serve much use. Both bloodlines have weaknesses that can be exploited. The natural skill of the users we've seen shouldn't be grounds for the opinion that Sharingan is a "skill in a box"

...And sorry, I won't consider Hinata's skills from the filler as proof until she demonstrates them in the manga

Neither really. The Sharingan can see through genjutsus informing the user what it is. Itachi genjutsu counter is more of his mastery in genjutsu (he is the best in the series) than the sharingan itself.

I agree considering that
Itachi tries to capture Kakashi in a non-MS genjutsu in the manga

Rurik

2006-11-09, 08:32

It would be better if you separate your ideas by paragraph

I just don't see the difference in saying that the Sharingan makes the person a genius and the person who wields the sharingan is a genius. For example if the person is a genius, because he wields sharingan then it's the sharingan that makes him a genius? Isn't this what you were saying?Yes, Sharingan may make the person have a noticable improvement, but the same can be said about a more advanced byakugan user.

No, understand my post, I’m saying the person that wilds the Sharingan is a genius, or more clear, The persons that we have seen so far with Sharingan were genius even overlooking that they had Sharingan.

Let me point you out the examples:

Kakashi was a genius before gaining the Sharingan
Sasuke was a Genius before Gaining the Sharingan
Itachi was a genius before gaining the Sharingan
The Uchihas were considered Genius whereas only a selected few awakened the Sharingan.

Bottom line is that the Sharingan in people like this proved to be better because this shinoby used their genius that they already had to used the power to the Sharingan to its fullest, in this case you see Kakashi using the Sharingan and copying Zabuza Jutsus and using it as good or even better as Zabuza, reason why You see Sasuke copying Lee's Primary lotus and later on Improvising the primary lotus to adapt to his current physical Capacities.

This is one of the definitions of Genius inside Naruto.

Another thing yes the sharingan can copy techniques, but if they are less experienced then there is always the possibility that they cannot physically do the skill, which means the sharingan can only copy techniques that would be useful of people who are equal or near your skill level. For example in order for Sasuke had to learn to handle high speeds and trained with Kakashi so he could use chidori, but as you can see he has to train his body in order to use the sharingan correctly and it's the same with the byakugan user. The eyes are useless if you don't train other areas. Maybe I got it wrong, but that's how I interpreted many things. If I'm misinterpreting many things then I would love for you to explain many things. I dunno maybe I'm looking too deep into stuff

And this point is exactly my point explained before the Sharingan been used by Geniuses, as proven on how Sasuke used a variation of Primary lotus without having the physical conditions to pull it off.

Sharingan as the Byakugan are tools, so the more trained you are at using the tool, the better you will use it, in the case of geniuses training takes less time and even no training at all, as it comes naturally.

And this is the difference between Hyugas with the Byakugan and Uchihas with Sharingan, we can say that all Uchihas were geniuses (hence you wont see People with Sharingan having trouble with a recently copied Jutsus), whereas, The Byakugan user are not said to be all genius (as Neeji and Maybe Hiashi are the only ones).

The average Bykugan user could be best for recon, Jyuken even if it dangerous, is still a Taijutsu, so if the opponent is someone good at Taijutsu also, the Byakugan will not be that Handy, but when it comes to one on one combat, as stated for Sharingan if it is one on one RUN

Hardly the stuff of legends. But anyway, even a genius like Sasuke must work to develop his Sharingan. That's why Sasuke lost when he first fought Rock Lee, he assumed that the Sharingan alone would allow him to match any opponent, but we saw that wasn't the case.

The problem with Rock Lee was not he Sharingan, Sasuke could follow correctly all of Lee’s movement, but Sasuke’s body could not keep up with Lee’s Speed, so in this case, He used the Sharingan well, but his body was not quick enough to react on what his eyes was telling him, in this case this is a case of Physical restraints.

IN other words, If Sasuke would had Lee Or close to Lee speed in that moment, he would had been capable of reacting quick enough to counter Lee Taijutsu.

Sabaku Kyu

2006-11-09, 09:22

The average Bykugan user could be best for recon, Jyuken even if it dangerous, is still a Taijutsu, so if the opponent is someone good at Taijutsu also, the Byakugan will not be that Handy, but when it comes to one on one combat, as stated for Sharingan if it is one on one RUN

Right. Byakugan seems to be better suited for group battles. They can't be ambushed or flanked by enemies from the rear. Sharingan has the advantage for one-on-one battles.

[QUOTE]The problem with Rock Lee was not he Sharingan, Sasuke could follow correctly all of Lee’s movement, but Sasuke’s body could not keep up with Lee’s Speed, so in this case, He used the Sharingan well, but his body was not quick enough to react on what his eyes was telling him, in this case this is a case of Physical restraints.

IN other words, If Sasuke would had Lee Or close to Lee speed in that moment, he would had been capable of reacting quick enough to counter Lee Taijutsu.

That's true, but a properly developed Sharingan can somewhat make up for lack of speed. For example, Sasuke couldn't keep up with Naruto when he was using the Kyuubi chakra, but once his 3rd tomoe developed in the middle of the battle he was able to block and counter every one of Naruto's attacks, even though Naruto was easily moving at the speed of Lee during Omote Renge. Sasuke didn't gain any speed but a better developed Sharingan allowed him to track movements better, probably gave him a little extra reaction time. So I guess it can be said that a Sharingan user can deal with speed in two ways: Either be physically fast enough to react to the opponent. Or, have a Sharingan developed to the point to where it makes up for the difference in speed.

Rurik

2006-11-09, 09:31

That's true, but a properly developed Sharingan can somewhat make up for lack of speed. For example, Sasuke couldn't keep up with Naruto when he was using the Kyuubi chakra, but once his 3rd tomoe developed in the middle of the battle he was able to block and counter every one of Naruto's attacks, even though Naruto was easily moving at the speed of Lee during Omote Renge. Sasuke didn't gain any speed but a better developed Sharingan allowed him to track movements better, probably gave him a little extra reaction time. So I guess it can be said that a Sharingan user can deal with speed in two ways: Either be physically fast enough to react to the opponent. Or, have a Sharingan developed to the point to where it makes up for the difference in speed.

Ok, I got you there, but a Properly develop Sharingan (a 3 dot Sharingan) could be gained by training (this was not stated, but I belive it is) or in the heat of the Battle, So training the Sharingan for upgrading its ability is not mandatory.

tkdtiger

2006-11-09, 11:27

Ok, I got you there, but a Properly develop Sharingan (a 3 dot Sharingan) could be gained by training (this was not stated, but I belive it is) or in the heat of the Battle, So training the Sharingan for upgrading its ability is not mandatory.

I see what you meant about geniuses. I just misinterpreted. I agree it doesn't appear mandatory that you have to train the sharingan, but at the same token it appears mandatory that you have to train your body for certain situations that the sharingan may not be able to handle alone

Jyuken is a taijutsu, but it's a much more dangerous form of taijutsu that even a small scratch can be deadly and has also been hinted that it can result in one hit kills.Then even against a great taijutsu user such as Gai or Rock Lee the jyuken user would still have the upper hand so it would still be handy especially when combined with the byakugan you can see everything coming at you.

Sharingan would be used more as a means to surprise your opponents and as a means too evade. It really is more of a defensive mechanism, which would make sense since when you first reciece sharingan you have to be in danger. Your fighting a person and he has the upper hand alittle activate sharingan copy is technique and the person pauses, because he wasn't expecting it and didn't realize there's a kunai with an exploding tag stuck to his jacket. Zabuza showed that if a person suspects the person would be using sharingan and understands the sharingan's weaknesses then the sharingan user seems to have more trouble. Creating a fog, using a smoke bomb makes the sharingan even hard to predict movements. Gai is another example. Gai doesn't even have to look into a person's eyes when using his taijutsu and has speed that's been hinted to be greater then Kakashi.

Nothing really nec. makes the Sharingan better then the byakugan atleast not until you see MS, which then is because we don't know much about the byakugan. One on one I think it could go either way between the two and considering that we know more about the sharingan and I still do not see anything that would significanly change the balance too the point where the sharingan user would out right defeat a byakugan user. Overall it's still based on ones opinion and perception. Overall I think they are equal in terms of being helpful.

MobiuS

2006-11-09, 12:05

And by a "bunch of people" you mean just Obito because he is the only Sharingan user we've seen who wasn't considered a genius.

No ... I mean Sasuke - Haku, Sasuke 2dot - Naruto, Blinded Kakashi (well, vision impaired, not blinded), Obito ...

We see them sucking hard and in quite a few scenarios on the verge of death. Then they either gain Sharingan or .. upgrade it. And then they proceed to a-town stomp on the opponent like as if they werent just getting their ass whooped 3 mins ago.

I dont care if they are a genius or not. They were losing before, and suddenly the sharingan shows up and makes them look like all the xmen rolled into 1 character. >_>

And Neji did show the ability during the exam. I had just forgotten about it. Where he analyses Shino and notices the bugs and gives an on-point analysis of his fighting style. That kind of info is nearly priceless in realtime combat. :heh:

Sazelyt

2006-11-09, 12:07

That's true, but a properly developed Sharingan can somewhat make up for lack of speed. For example, Sasuke couldn't keep up with Naruto when he was using the Kyuubi chakra, but once his 3rd tomoe developed in the middle of the battle he was able to block and counter every one of Naruto's attacks, even though Naruto was easily moving at the speed of Lee during Omote Renge. Sasuke didn't gain any speed but a better developed Sharingan allowed him to track movements better, probably gave him a little extra reaction time. So I guess it can be said that a Sharingan user can deal with speed in two ways: Either be physically fast enough to react to the opponent. Or, have a Sharingan developed to the point to where it makes up for the difference in speed.Somewhat, yes, especially, against an opponent whose actions are based on only "animal instincts". But, against an intelligent and very fast enemy, that is not guaranteed. Or, if the opponent use intelligent jutsu in addition to the quickness, then that kind of prediction would be helpful at the level of two-dot Sharingan.

MobiuS

2006-11-09, 12:18

Somewhat, yes, especially, against an opponent whose actions are based on only "animal instincts". But, against an intelligent and very fast enemy, that is not guaranteed. Or, if the opponent use intelligent jutsu in addition to the quickness, then that kind of prediction would be helpful at the level of two-dot Sharingan.

Actually it is guaranteed either way. Sharingan sees everything. Muscles, chakra flow ... its essentially the perfect snitch.

However ...

If you move faster than the sharingan can process and then your body reacts ... you win.

Punch = 0.05 seconds to connect
Sharingan = 0.02 secs to detect / Body = 0.04 seconds to block.

You would hit them even though they saw the punch coming simply because your body is so fast that the advantage Sharingan provides is neglible. Sharingan detects, but your body needs to be fast enough to react on time. Hence why Itachi is fuxorzing deadly. Hes got mad speed and upgraded Sharingan to boot. ezpkgg no-re.

Rock Lee gave us the first proof when he wtfpwnt Sasgay.
Gai was also 50-49 vs Kakashi. And Kakashi is a genius pro sharingan user who isnt a slouch in combat. Gai doesnt use flashy jutsus ... just speed and strength.

So imagine Gai with all gates open doing that crazy punch thing mixed with crazy kicks ... he might actually be fast enough to move faster than Sharingan can detect and relay in sufficient time.

Ziv

2006-11-09, 12:39

Gai was also 50-49 vs Kakashi. And Kakashi is a genius pro sharingan user who isnt a slouch in combat. Gai doesnt use flashy jutsus ... just speed and strength.

BS. half of Gai's "contests" with kakashi were rock/paper/scissors, sumo wrestling, and ramen eating contests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Might_Guy

MobiuS

2006-11-09, 13:02

How did I miss that flashback? Where exactly is it?

PS. Gai still had to use his speed and nothing else, and Kakashi had his Sharingan hax to boot.

Speed > Sharingan.

Rurik

2006-11-09, 13:05

How did I miss that flashback? Where exactly is it?

No, you did not missed that Flashback, it does not exist, the only one that exist is the match of Rock/Paper/Scissor, and Sharingan did not played part in this.

tkdtiger I read yours post and I mostly agree with everything you said, but on thing to make it clear, I’m not saying that other Taijutsus could beat a Jyuken master, what m saying is that if and Average Jyuken fighter fights against someone that is good at Taijutsu, then Jyuken would not be as Handy.

And The most frequent use the Sharingan has done is the one of evading, so I’m pretty sure is more suited for evading than surprise.

Jaricko

2006-11-09, 13:35

Ok my opinion on the whole matter.
Ok personally i think they are both good for the own reasons. And that none can really be said to be better. I read earlier of people saying that the uchiha clan has to work hard in order to learn there sharingan while the byukugan is already known. Now i am positive that there is no real reference saying that the byukugan doesnt require training to learn. Its also said that the sharingan was derived from the byukugan as well meaning that its got some simularitys to the byukugan. Also not all members of the uchiha clan learn the sharingan in the first place and you cant really assume that the byukugan is known by all of the huuga clan as well. They are both good on there own terms. For example the sharingan is used by kakashi not only as means to copy the opponent but it makes up for the draw backs of his move chidori.
Now the byukugan allows 360 degree which helps prevent you opponent from sneaking up on you. Now immagine your on a mission to recover a scroll from a well guarded building. You have no idea how many men are inside, Well if you got a byukugan you would be able to see exactly how many people are inside as well as learning the the layout of the building. Now that may not be much of a battle advantage but its certainly a smart move.
Im not swaying in any direction i think they are both good on there own terms but if i had to choose i think i would choose the byukugan.

Dauthi

2006-11-09, 13:45

Nope, The Uchiha Clan was a Clan Of Geniuses, the Hyuga Clan is not known to be like that, however they do have geniuses, (Neeji is an example). and genius are not abaout the power of the Bloddline, is about how good this person could be Naturallly.

And Look at the difference

Hinata having Years using the Byakugan and still was a drop out Shinoby, Obito passed from been a so-so Ninja, and in the moment she gained the Sharingan his level Changed considerable

Not true, Hinata is damned good, and she is not a genious, or even that great of a fighter. She just didnt believe in herself much. Byakugen makes her strong anyways however.

I still dont believe everyone in the village was genious, that is not logical in any way. Compare Itatchi/Sasuke to the rest of their village, they quite obviously are better. They may be genious' in the fact they could learn a lot of jutsu, but certainly some were better than others.

Anyways, my case in point is comparing a newly awakened Sharingan, which from what we have seen gives slightly better dodging abilities. Compared to an average byakugen user of the same age, i think the advantage in situations goes to byakugen.

Sure obito got better, but when a real genious (kakashi) got just one eye, he became much better than Obito. Thats further proof that there are genious' and non-genious sharingan users

You have train to become Skillful with the Sharingan, but you don’t have to train to use it, Sasuke demonstrated that when he awoke the Sharingan, and troughs the Chunin Test, Also What Jutsu Kakshi train for? Are you talking about the MS? Because we Don’t know still how Kakashi gain the MS.

Who says you have to train to unlock the byakugen? In fact it seems they have the ability with no "unlocking" like the sharingan does. Sure afterwards they must train to gain to increase its abilities, but i believe sharingan does as well. Yes i am talking about his MS, he stated before the timeskip he had to train because he was getting weak, and suddenly he has it afterwards.

Rurik

2006-11-09, 13:53

Not true, Hinata is damned good, and she is not a genious, or even that great of a fighter. She just didnt believe in herself much. Byakugen makes her strong anyways however.

Hinata is/was not good, she knows the Jyuken, that’s all, and then that’s the reason why she was cast out of the Main Branch, because she plains sucked and still sucked by the moment the Part 1 ended.

I still dont believe everyone in the village was genious, that is not logical in any way. Compare Itatchi/Sasuke to the rest of their village, they quite obviously are better. They may be genious' in the fact they could learn a lot of jutsu, but certainly some were better than others.

Did you ment to say Clan, rather than Village? if it was, then Of Course not every and single one in the Uchiha Clan was a Genius, but they were know to be a Genius clan that however is not the same with the Hyuga.

Also inside the Uchiha no other was higher than Itachi in term of anything, including Genius, in the case of the entire village, I could say Itachi was not the greatest, but he is up there amongst the best.

Anyways, my case in point is comparing a newly awakened Sharingan, which from what we have seen gives slightly better dodging abilities. Compared to an average byakugen user of the same age, i think the advantage in situations goes to byakugen.

That’s depends on the Use, Byakugan without Jyuken does not had any type of combat purpose, is just for Information gathering purpose.

If you are going to compare then to Recon type of mission, then The Advantage goes to the Byakugan, if you go to a Combat Type of situation, Sharingan has the advantage.

Sure obito got better, but when a real genious (kakashi) got just one eye, he became much better than Obito. Thats further proof that there are genious' and non-genious sharingan users

Obito is the exception, reason why Kakshi made fun of him to begin, as all the Uchihas are supposed to be Geniuses

Who says you have to train to unlock the byakugen? In fact it seems they have the ability with no "unlocking" like the sharingan does. Sure afterwards they must train to gain to increase its abilities, but i believe sharingan does as well. Yes i am talking about his MS, he stated before the timeskip he had to train because he was getting weak, and suddenly he has it afterwards.

I did not say you have to train the Byakugan to unlock it, sorry if my sentence threw you off.

When Im talking about no training needed, im talking about combat situation, the Byakugan without the proper Jyuken training is practically useless in Combat situations, whereas you don’t need any training at all to use the Sharingan in combat situation, as Kakahi and Sasuke and Obito showed

And then Kakashi said he needed to train himself, however he did not said he was training specifically to gain the MS

inferno_grl

2006-11-09, 13:56

Kakashi said byakugan had a better insight than sharingan and nothing else.

no he didn't. and if he did i must have missed while i was watching the whole thing. and they must have ripped it out of the book when i bought it.

Dauthi

2006-11-09, 14:04

I did not say you have to train the Byakugan to unlock it, sorry if my sentence threw you off.

When Im talking about no training needed, im talking about combat situation, the Byakugan without the proper Jyuken training is practically useless in Combat situations, whereas you don’t need any training at all to use the Sharingan in combat situation, as Kakahi and Sasuke and Obito showed

Oh yeah, i understand that. Technically the byakugen is the same, but its abilities are not directly involved in fighting.

My point however is this: Lets take a 12 year old sasuke who has just got his sharingan. He has enhanced dodging capabilities. That about sums it up.

Lets take a 12 year old Neji. He has had his byakugen for possibly his whole life, thus giving him time to train jyuuken his whole life. Who would you say is stronger at this point? I say byakugen easily at this point. Thats all i am saying.

Sure as the 12 year old Sasuke encounters battles up to say 16, his power will eventually surpass neji's (imo) because thats when the sharingan shines. He will have had combat experience which in turn gives him more jutsu, making him verstatile and unpredictable.

And then Kakashi said he needed to train himself, however he did not said he was training specifically to gain the MS

He certainly didnt say that directly, but he hasn't shown anything else yet, so one can only assume that is what he trained at this point.

tkdtiger

2006-11-09, 14:04

true, but would you agree then that there are cases where the use of sharingan cannot help against a taijutsu user.

Lets take this situation where there is a heavy fog that one cannot see past it. It's a sharingan user vs the byakugan user. Would you agree that the Byakugan user now has an edge over the sharingan user since he or she can see through the fog?
If yes then lets say that both are high level ninjas at Itachi's strength. The sharingan user still is unable to use MS effectively since he doesn't really know where the person is. Would you you agree that the Byakugan user has the upper hand?
Then lets take this further since the byakugan user is at a level on par with Itachi then he's probably able to do one hit kills. Would you say that the byakugan user has the upper hand? Thus the byakugan user then quickly kills the sharingan user.

Now lets take another scene. It's a bright sunny day. A sharingan user is fighting a byakugan user in a field of flowers. Both activate their respective Blood Limit. Both men are at Itachi's level and Skill.
One Major point needs to be made. Neji's ultimate defense was compared to be equal or greater then that of Nara's sand defense, therefore it's safe to assume that a byakugan user at Itachi's skill level just may be able to create a chakra barrier that can block many things that a normal ninja would not.

Now back to the scene. The two are facing off. In this scene would you agree that the sharingan has the upper hand?
The byakugan user can see from great distances at 360 degrees, with the exception of the blind spot, thus the byakugan user never has to look directly into the sharingan's eyes, therefore atleast some of MS doesn't work well. Would you agree that in that aspect now the byakugan user has the upper hand?
The sharingan user if is at Itachi's level won't be stupid enough for a direct attack, but throws kunais and other jutsu's from a distance from the byakugan user, but is not able to get a hit due to that chakra barrier. Would you agree that the chakra barrier has now given the byakugan user the upper hand in the scene?
Let's say that the sharingan user's ultimate MS technique is similar to Itachi's fire thing. He attempts to use it, but the barrier is able to counter it, although due to the attack it has clearly drained the byakugan user. Would you now agree that the sharingan user has the upper hand?
The byakugan user though notices that the sharingan user has drained alot of energy as well. Would you now agree that neither has the advantage and they are currently on par with each other at this point? Eventually they both collapse from using too much energy. No one wins in this scene.

Then there is this scene. It's a forest. Trees are every where. It's the sharingan user vs the byakugan user and again both are at Itachi's skill. The sharingan user knows the weaknesses of byakugan and the byakugan user knows the weaknesses of the sharingan. The sharingan hides outside the byakugan's field of vision. Would you agree that the sharingan user has the upper hand?
The byakugan user stops for a second allowing his blind spot to be exposed. Would you agree that at this moment the sharingan user has the upper hand?
Now the sharingan user has the upper hand and throws a kunai at the blind spot, but the byakugan user moves his head slightly and is able to spot the kunai and block it. Now the byakugan knows about the general direction of the Kunai and knows that the sharingan user was attacking his blind spot. Would you agree though that the sharingan user still has the edge since he's outside the byakugan user's field of vision and is able move around it. Now they keep playing this game and the byakugan user moving around more so his blind spot is too hard to target, but it time he's getting tired from using things like his barrier. Would you agree that the sharingan user still has the upper hand. Eventually the byakugan user cannot use his chakra barrier due to becoming tired. Would you agree that in this scene the sharingan user would win?

Jaricko

2006-11-09, 14:13

Rurik

2006-11-09, 14:33

Oh yeah, i understand that. Technically the byakugen is the same, but its abilities are not directly involved in fighting.

My point however is this: Lets take a 12 year old sasuke who has just got his sharingan. He has enhanced dodging capabilities. That about sums it up.

Lets take a 12 year old Neji. He has had his byakugen for possibly his whole life, thus giving him time to train jyuuken his whole life. Who would you say is stronger at this point? I say byakugen easily at this point. Thats all i am saying.

Sure as the 12 year old Sasuke encounters battles up to say 16, his power will eventually surpass neji's (imo) because thats when the sharingan shines. He will have had combat experience which in turn gives him more jutsu, making him verstatile and unpredictable.

That’s not a fair comparison, given you are using the best of the Hyugas, and it was already stated that By that Time (Chunin Test) Neeji was supposedly better than Sasuke.

But lets Change your Neeji to Hinata, who would had been stronger?

He certainly didnt say that directly, but he hasn't shown anything else yet, so one can only assume that is what he trained at this point.

He could had been training his body as he was doing after he met Kabuto in Sasuke Hospital Room, Kakshi after all lasted an entire day with the Sharingan expose while doing the bell test with Naruto and Sakura, Also there is a possibility Kakashi could had Copied the MS, who knows?

tkdtiger…really long post, let summs up what I think:

-Yes I agree that a Sharingan user dos not necceraely has to fair good in combat (you said taijutsu, it could be overall), however, compared to just use the Byakugan without Jyuken, Sharingan will still have the edge.

-Your first Comparison were made to give favorable match to a Byakugan user.,is like saying Put the Fog, but Tie both Hands of the Hyuga.

-The second Example, You don’t know how well the Byakugan user could fair Against the Sahringan user, Kaiten Purpose is to Defend, However, The Uchiha can just outlast the person doing Kaiten until this person runs out of gas, and by terms of comparison, the Person Doing Kaiten will get tired more quickly.

The Hyugas are Taijutsu based, So if the Uchiha and the Hyuga are on the same level, the Hyuga will not be able to lay a finger on the Uchiha.

-Even if the Byakugan has 360 Degrees, once cast the Tsukujoumy can't be Countered or dispelled, Hyugas with Byakugan are no Exception, it was stated the only ones that can fair against it are Uchihas with the MS.

-Your last Example was also favoring the Byakugan.

Point is in term of Combat the Sharingan is better, the Byakugan became as good when you complemented with the Jutsu created for it, my observation is parting directly from Someone that recently acquired the Sharingan and Someone that Recently Acquired the Byakugan.

tkdtiger

2006-11-09, 19:49

He could had been training his body as he was doing after he met Kabuto in Sasuke Hospital Room, Kakshi after all lasted an entire day with the Sharingan expose while doing the bell test with Naruto and Sakura, Also there is a possibility Kakashi could had Copied the MS, who knows?

tkdtiger…really long post, let summs up what I think:

-Yes I agree that a Sharingan user dos not necceraely has to fair good in combat (you said taijutsu, it could be overall), however, compared to just use the Byakugan without Jyuken, Sharingan will still have the edge.

-Your first Comparison were made to give favorable match to a Byakugan user.,is like saying Put the Fog, but Tie both Hands of the Hyuga.

-The second Example, You don’t know how well the Byakugan user could fair Against the Sahringan user, Kaiten Purpose is to Defend, However, The Uchiha can just outlast the person doing Kaiten until this person runs out of gas, and by terms of comparison, the Person Doing Kaiten will get tired more quickly.

The Hyugas are Taijutsu based, So if the Uchiha and the Hyuga are on the same level, the Hyuga will not be able to lay a finger on the Uchiha.

-Even if the Byakugan has 360 Degrees, once cast the Tsukujoumy can't be Countered or dispelled, Hyugas with Byakugan are no Exception, it was stated the only ones that can fair against it are Uchihas with the MS.

-Your last Example was also favoring the Byakugan.

Point is in term of Combat the Sharingan is better, the Byakugan became as good when you complemented with the Jutsu created for it, my observation is parting directly from Someone that recently acquired the Sharingan and Someone that Recently Acquired the Byakugan.

Yes, the first question was indeed setup so the byakugan user would win, but it was meant to show that there are times where the sharingan can be weakened to a point where it is almost useless.

I see, so you're comparing the two without combat skills into consideration. Yes it is true that the scenes that I give would give the byakugan at least in the first scenerio definately give byakugan an edge. You say that the sharingan against byakugan without jyuken would have the edge. So let me ask this question. If the person with sharingan is able to use it, but has no combat experience will he or she be able to use it effectively?

Now in terms of combat you argue that sharingan alone gives him or her the edge over the byakugan user. You also claim that the byakugan user would not be able lay a finger on the sharingan user in this scenerio. You also claim that tsukujoumy can't be countered once cast. Would you agree then when I say that Tsukujoumy needs direct eye contact with tsukujoumy to be effective? This is evident as Gai tells people not to look directly into Itachi's eyes. You also claim that the sharingan user will outlast the byakugan user, although this would have to be assumed that the sharingan user hasn't used large jutsus and that he has more endurance. Since they are equal though you would have to assume that there byakugan user can last as long as the sharingan user or they wouldn't be equal.

You say that my situations even the third one gives the edge to the byakugan user, but in the third example I give the sharingan user wins by forcing they byakugan user to waste his or her energy.

Now I'm going to argue that even without jyuken the Byakugan and sharingan are still on par, although this scenerio would seem to put the sharingan user has the edge, but to be fair since you got rid of jyuken, which is the main hyuuga skill, you'll then also have to assume that neither has had combat experience therefore the sharingan has not copied any jutsu's so far. This is fair. Would you now agree that they are equal?

They are on a prairie. Byakugan is now activated the sharingan user then activates sharingan. Both are at equal footing. They byakugan user doges the sharingan users attacks and the sharingan user dodges the other's attack. the sharingan user can read the byakugan user, but at the same time the byakugan user can see the attacks coming easily.
Some how the sharingan also has MS and is able to use Tsukujoumy, but the byakugan use has learned about this and due to the byakugan's ability never has to look into sharingan user eyes. He or she also knows about amaratsu, but is able to tell that it is about to be used when he notices the change in chakra and knows to dodge when he or she sees this change. The sharingan user realizes this thus is careful not to use amaratsu at this time, because it would waste his or her energy. Tsukujoumy is now virtually useless, although the sharingan user still can use amaratsu and therefore has the edge.

Now would you agree that there really is nothing to copy off the byakugan user since they both are rendered to basic punches and kicks and maybe a few basic jutsus, which they both already know how to do. So copying techiniques is pointless.

This means there are only going to for the most part taijutsu used. Then it will be based on endurance. Would you agree that the byakugan user can probablly dodge amaratsu? If so the amaratsu would be too risky to use. Now it is just hand to hand combat. The sharingan can see the direction and predict the movement and the byakugan can see anything coming at them and can adjust. In this scenerio would you agree that they're ability to dodge incoming attacks are on par?

Then it must be assumed that both will kill each other, collapse from exaustion, and or give up the fight and go home. Would you agree that this scenerio fits with what kakashi said when he told zabuza that you can't win using sharingan alone?

Now you state that "the Byakugan became as good when you complemented with the Jutsu created for it, my observation is parting directly from Someone that recently acquired the Sharingan and Someone that Recently Acquired the Byakugan."(Rurik)

There is a problem with your reasoning. Jyuken is a martial art technique learned by the Hyuuga clan, therefore it is a learned skill.
Will you agree that everyone who has recently gained the sharingan has learned fighting skills? In other words you're saying that you can include the fighting skills that the sharingan user learns, but one must forget including Jyuken, because it compliments their Blood Limit?

Rurik

2006-11-09, 21:11

Yes, the first question was indeed setup so the byakugan user would win, but it was meant to show that there are times where the sharingan can be weakened to a point where it is almost useless.

And Your comparison is really bad, given is like trying to compare Kakshi with Knohamaru, Weaken Kakashi to a state he cant move, and then argue that We cant say that Kakashi is better than Konohamaru because of the special cases been mentioned.

I see, so you're comparing the two without combat skills into consideration. Yes it is true that the scenes that I give would give the byakugan at least in the first scenerio. You say that the sharingan without jyuken would have the edge. So let me ask this question. If the person with sharingan is able to use it, but has no combat experience will he or she be able to use it effectively?

It seems you are overlooking the most important aspects of the Sharingan, Evade and Copy, A person with no Skill whatsoever will still have an edge because the person Attacking him will be presented with the bad luck that all of his attack will be evaded and Countered. unless his speed is so great, that the Sharingan user cant keep up with the speed.

And then, after Evading, the Sharingan user will had already copy each and every attack that was thrown to him on site.

So the edge will be on the Sharingan given it will gather information for combat on site, the Byakugan user would only be seen his ass get kick better than any other person.

Now in terms of combat you argue that sharingan alone gives him or her the edge over the byakugan user. You also claim that the byakugan user would not be able lay a finger on the sharingan user in this scenerio. You also claim that tsukujoumy can't be countered once cast. Would you agree then when I say that Tsukujoumy needs direct eye contact with tsukujoumy to be effective? This is evident as Gai tells people not to look directly into Itachi's eyes. You also claim that the sharingan user will outlast the byakugan user, although this would have to be assumed that the sharingan user hasn't used large jutsus and that he has more endurance. Since they are equal though you would have to assume that there byakugan user can last as long as the sharingan user or they wouldn't be equal.

You say all this as if I an pulling this information from my ass and Im not.

-IN terms of combat, the Sharingan is superior given the various fighting ability it could give to the user, Byakugan is not a Fighting tool alone, wereas Sharingan is.

-Yes, if the Byakugan user is on the same level on a Sharingan user, then all of the attacks made by the Byakugan user will be evaded by the Sharingan user, given the sharingan user is going ot predict each movement of the Byakugan user.remember we are talking about a Taijutsu style.

-And yes Tsukijoumy cant be countered, what Tsukijoumy can is Be avoided, which is a totally different thing, if You are caught in a Tsukyuomy, its game over for the person that falls under this genjutsu.

-and as I say if the Byakugan user will only use the Kaiten to Defend himself, then in a specific point the person performing the Kaiten will be exausted, doing the Kaiten is not something like trowing a Kunai or Jumping, is A jutsu that depletes Both a lot of Chakra and a good amount of stamina to be performed.

Now I'm going to argue that even without jyuken the Byakugan and sharingan are still on par, although this scenerio would seem to put the sharingan user has the edge, but to be fair since you got rid of jyuken, which is the main hyuuga skill, you'll then also have to assume that neither has had combat experience therefore the sharingan has not copied any jutsu's so far. This is fair. Would you now agree that they are equal?

This is answered in the first part of my post.

They are on a prairie. Byakugan is now activated the sharingan user then activates sharingan. Both are at equal footing. They byakugan user doges the sharingan users attacks and the sharingan user dodges the other's attack. the sharingan user can read the byakugan user, but at the same time the byakugan user can see the attacks coming easily.

There is no way that a Byakugan user on the same level as a Sharingan user could dodge all of the attack of a Sharingan user, the Sharingan will be predicting were each of the movement of the Byakugan user will land next.

Some how the sharingan also has MS and is able to use Tsukujoumy, but the byakugan use has learned about this and due to the byakugan's ability never has to look into sharingan user eyes. He or she also knows about amaratsu, but is able to tell that it is about to be used when he notices the change in chakra and knows to dodge when he or she sees this change. The sharingan user realizes this thus is careful not to use amaratsu at this time, because it would waste his or her energy. Tsukujoumy is now virtually useless, although the sharingan user still can use amaratsu and therefore has the edge.

And how a Bykugan user could fight a Sahringan user without staring at the Eyes of the Sharingan user? wasnt it stated that the ability to fight someone based on the movement of the feet was something very difficult and that Gai was practically the only one capable of pulling that out???, so tell me what ability of the Byakugan is that that the Byakugan user will fight the MS without having eye Contact?

Now would you agree that there really is nothing to copy off the byakugan user since they both are rendered to basic punches and kicks and maybe a few basic jutsus, which they both already know how to do. So copying techiniques is pointless.

If both have the same ability, the Sharingan will have the edge, given the Sharingan will be canceling the effect of any Taijutsu, NInjutsu or Genjutsu made by the Byakugan user.

This means there are only going to for the most part taijutsu used. Then it will be based on endurance.

If it Taijutus based, it would be a copy of the fight of Sasuke and Naruto after Sasuke gained the 3rd dot. in other words, The person attacking while the Sharinga user will dodge effortless this attacks and counter according.

Would you agree that the byakugan user can probably dodge amaratsu? If so the amaratsu would be too risky to use.
Given the Databook description on Amateratsu, the Byakugan User or any other person cant dodge the Amateratsu, Amatetarsu does not has a projected path, when Amateratsu is activated what it does is that what Itachi targets with his eyes it beggin to burns, to give you an idea of what it is

Think about Kakshi MS jutsu which appears in the target, this cant be avoided, you need to try and scape it

I don't have details of the possible set backs the Amateratsu might have, but im working here based on what the Databook say.

Now it is just hand to hand combat. The sharingan can see the direction and predict the movement and the byakugan can see anything coming at them and can adjust. In this scenerio would you agree that they're ability to dodge incoming attacks are on par?

No, because it was never ever Hinted in the entire Manga that the Byakugan could help adjust at incoming attack. thats something unique to the Sharingan. The Byakugan when seen a incoming attack is going to work as a Normal eye, it will see the Punch Kick or Jutsu coming without the ability of telling were its going to land and how to react to the incoming attack.

Then it must be assumed that both will kill each other, collapse from exaustion, and or give up the fight and go home. Would you agree that this scenerio fits with what kakashi said when he told zabuza that you can't win using sharingan alone?

NO, I don't agree given we already have seen people using Shairngan to it fullest and defeating people based only because of the Sharingan.

Also refresh my memory, because I don't recall that quote from Kakshi.

Now you state that "the Byakugan became as good when you complemented with the Jutsu created for it, my observation is parting directly from Someone that recently acquired the Sharingan and Someone that Recently Acquired the Byakugan."(Rurik)

This has always been the topic of debate in this thread since post number one, this is not an Uchiha vs Hyuga thread, this is a Shairngan and Byakugan thread.

There is a problem with your reasoning. Jyuken is a martial art technique learned by the Hyuuga clan, therefore it is a learned skill.
Will you agree that everyone who has recently gained the sharingan has learned fighting skills? In other words you're saying that you can include the fighting skills that the sharingan user learns, but one must forget including Jyuken, because it compliments their Blood Limit?

You seem to be lost here, the Jyuken is a style independent of the Byakugan, is not an ability that the Byakugan gives to the user, whereas everything I have used so far are based on the Ability the Sharingan gives to the Person, as one of those is copy anything it sees.

So you can understand, if I gained the Sharingan today, and An Skilled martial Artist has the Byakugan (both of us have the same physical condition and speed), the winner of the fight will be me, given In the first fight, I will not only be evading the martial artist blows, but in the process I will be copying all of the martial artist attacks and I will end up using this attacks against the martial artist.

Vyper1000

2006-11-09, 21:27

I would choose the Byakugan because it is just cooler but then again I hate the Uchihas and their dumb Sharingan i think it looks dumb.

tatami

2006-11-09, 22:03

by the second you faced a sharingan user at itachis level, u r dead.didnt even need an eye contact...only da finger genjutsu and then black fire thing u r dead.

tkdtiger

2006-11-10, 01:23

So what you're saying is that alone sharingan has the upper hand if they are used alone by itself, because you can copy and evade without learning the techniques. I think I can agree with that if they are exactly equal and if the sharingan user is able to physically do the technique I also wanted to say I don't think you were pulling the info out your ass. I think you made alot of good points, although if you use byakugan with certain fighting abilities I think byakugan could be on par with a character using sharingan. Sorry about the long post I think studying Socrates and the Socratic method in my Political Theory class has finally made me go crazy haha

Dauthi

2006-11-10, 19:39

That’s not a fair comparison, given you are using the best of the Hyugas, and it was already stated that By that Time (Chunin Test) Neeji was supposedly better than Sasuke.

Its quite fair, neji is a genious, so is Sasuke. You are probably forgetting that Neji is older than Sasuke (which is why he seems a lot stronger), but in my comparison i said if they were equal age.

However you could use 2 average nobody nins for the same comparison, it still proves byakugen will still give a better advantage, in the beggining of a ninja's life.

Again, my whole point is that a byakugen user can train jyuuken much earlier on average than the average sharingan user can even obtain their sharingan. To get sharingan very early means you are a genious as a sharingan user, however non-genious' like hinata and her sister have shown they have had byakugen at a very early age. Thus, at younger ages, the byakugen user has an advantage. Sharingan however after obtained and over time, will by far surpass the byakugen.

He could had been training his body as he was doing after he met Kabuto in Sasuke Hospital Room, Kakshi after all lasted an entire day with the Sharingan expose while doing the bell test with Naruto and Sakura, Also there is a possibility Kakashi could had Copied the MS, who knows?

Its possible sure, but there is still a good chance you have to train it, as the story seems to lead us to believe thus far. It told us he was training during the time skip, and in his first fight seemed to show us the fruits of his labor. It is quite impressive, and shows the sharingan is that much more overpowered =(

Rurik

2006-11-10, 20:56

Demongod86

2006-11-10, 23:21

Sharingan wins this EASILY. Please recall Neji vs. Spiderman. He nearly DIED and that's basically as far as Byakugan can go. It's a sight and situational awareness tool. And it probably gives more precise vision and other eye goodies, but all in all, as a FIGHTING technique, once you're caught in the thick of it, aside from the 360 degree vision and perhaps chakra sight (Neji vs. Naruto), it doesn't do much...

Now Sharingan on the other hand allows for gundam wing's ZERO-system type foresight in knowing AHEAD OF TIME where someone's going to attack, and in ADDITION to that, the moment you see any sort of technique aside from bloodline limit (because you need the special blood to use it), guess what? You can avoid and copy. Oh, and WHAT'S MORE, is that the Mangekyou Sharingan allows for godlike (and chakra costs only a demigod could pay) capabilities, case in point Amaterasu. If you see it, it goes up in demonic flame.

If byakugan fought vs. regular Sharingan, regular Sharingan wins based on it being far better tailored to combat. If you fight vs. Mangekyou, it's an utter blowout. If the MS user so much as sees you, guess what? Even if you use Byakugan's 360 vision not to make direct eye contact, thereby avoiding Tsukiyomi, if you're so much as seen by the MS user, Amaterasu means it's over on the spot.

Frankly, there's a reason that Itachi is considered godlike. He possesses every quality of a strong ninja in ABUNDANCE, and in addition to that, he has his bloodline demon jutsus. And I'm not exactly sure his chakra pool is low, either...just that his ultimate techniques absorb that much chakra.

s-class uchiha

2006-11-11, 01:39

Charmmy Kitty

2006-11-11, 05:14

Well, I think, that Byakugan and Sharingan are both cool %)) But for some reason I voted for Sharingan, may be it's just because I like Uchihas x)))
And Mangekyo Sharingan is truely better, than Byakugan - just a simple eye contact - and you're dead.

rasedori

2006-11-11, 11:45

sharingan is good in a tight spot because u could copy your opponents jutsus and use it against them, and you can read your opponents movements. And of course their is ms

Rurik

2006-11-11, 13:11

I agree with you, but I just think that a comparison between Itachi and Neji is unfair for the byukagan. You'd have to get a "legendary' byukugan user vs Itachi. Remember Hinata's little sister is comparable to Neji, whereas Sasuke is not comparable to Itachi (very few are... I mean he's stronger than Orochimaru for goodness sakes!).

Off topic, to compare the MS to the Byukugan is unfair too... though its worthy to mention the possibility.

Sasuke and Neji is a totally fair comparison. Both top of their class and both awesome, both bloodline. Neji, wasn't so exceptional that he graduated early , in fact Gai wanted the team to sit out one year (prb not b/c of neji though :p ).

The real question is who would win if they didn't use their bloodline limits? Just raw skill? I'd say Neji.
Thats why I said Itachi at the same age that Neeji, we are comparing the 2 best Geniuses know to us from each house.

Once again Neeji and Sasuke are not a fair comparison given that Neeji was already stated that was stronger than Sasuke by that time. Reason why I also used another comparison with 2 more average Ninjas.

BTW, if we are going to talk about skill taking away each person doujutsu, Neeji could not defeat Sasuke, Neeji can do his Attacks because he has the BYakugan, whereas SAsuke was good already without the Sharingan.

ri0

2006-11-11, 13:18

Thats why I said Itachi at the same age that Neeji, we are comparing the 2 best Geniuses know to us from each house.

That's your people's mitake... you shouldn't compare two persons, you should compare two doujutsu.

Rurik

2006-11-11, 13:25

That's your people's mitake... you shouldn't compare two persons, you should compare two doujutsu.

Reason why I said 3 times this thread is abaout the Dojutus and not the Clans...

So, is not my mistake...Im replying to what is replied to me.

ri0

2006-11-11, 13:32

Reason why I said 3 times this thread is abaout the Dojutus and not the Clans...

So, is not my mistake...Im replying to what is replied to me.

Dunno... your post was the one I read^^

Rurik

2006-11-11, 13:57

Dunno... your post was the one I read^^

:eyespin: lol..you should try to read everything...yeah they are long..but read them...:p

Dauthi

2006-11-11, 15:23

tkdttiger, as our Debate was already reach to its highest point, I don't see why we should continue as we both expressed very good our opinion on the matter. I still don't agree that a Byakugan user with the Jyuken style can defeat a SAhringan user on his same level. but that's what I believe.

Is not fair, If you are going to compare Neeji with someone, Compare him to Itachi at that age.

Neeji is a genius that far exceeds Sasuke, he is one of the greatest Fighter (if not the most) this series has.

So in other words, Neeji is the best Genius shown from the Hyugas, its only fair to compare him with the best Genius from the Uchihas.

Im afraid thats a matter of opinion on your part. There are no other hyuuga's to compare him with, you can't say for sure if he is on the same level as Itatchi. Not to mention, i dont see Neji accomplishing all the things Itatchi did at 13. Itatchi seems to be a very rare Genious, i dont think Neji compares. Itatchi also is more of a genious it seems than most people, i REALLY doubt neji is his equal.

Sasuke has been compared to Neji however, as both being a genious of different graduations. I think they are fine being compared, their abilities seem to be quite equal.

Now if you want me to make other comparison,

lets take HInata and Obito, and I would still place my money on Obito.

It isn't a VS. competition, it is vs a random ninja. My money would be on hinata and her deadly jyuuken vs a random ninja around her level. What does Obito have? Higher dodge abilities and whatever jutsu he might already know? Hinata could 1 hit kill the guy...

Having the Byakugna plus the Jyuken would not make you invisible, as even with that, a Genius Uchiha without the Sharingan could defeat a Trained Hyuga, at the end its all about perspectives.

Plus Jyuken is something that does not comes with the Byakugan package, thats a whole new package, so the Byakugan user don't have an advantage at earlier stage of his life unless he is trained the Jyuken, and even like that, you really can say for sure.

As I said to Tkdtiger, this thread is about Byakugan and Sahringan, So an ability that is not originated from the eye should not be part of the debate.

Of course it doesnt, however my point was young sharingan user with newly developed sharingan compared to a simliar byakugen user of the same age. I never stated i was comparing the two eyes. So if you don't wish to debate this, then no need to reply, as i was never comparing the eyes themselves.

Again, it is shown even non-genious byakugen users develop their byakugen very young, and train jyuuken at the age they start to study martial arts. A sharingan user however, on average, will develop it later, around the age of 12-13, giving a byakugen user more of an advantage vs a random ninja then a sharingan user will have (at the age of 12 ill say again). Again, i will take a 1 hit kill over better dodging any day. Even if it isnt a one hit kill, one hit will still injur them a lot.

To sum up, i was speculating the advantages of both power-wise. I stated that at an early age it woudl be more useful to be a byakugen user. However at later ages, sharingan wins hands down.

I partially agree with your spoiler observation. but still, what Kakshi could had train was maybe tied to adapt his body to the MS and the Jutsu it does, this is a little bit different, not only Kakhsi is not an Uchiha, but we are talking about Jutsus now, not a Ability

We will have to see as the story unfolds about the Mangekyou. Untill then training Mangekyou is still a possibility =).

Rurik

2006-11-11, 16:57

Im afraid thats a matter of opinion on your part. There are no other hyuuga's to compare him with, you can't say for sure if he is on the same level as Itatchi. Not to mention, i dont see Neji accomplishing all the things Itatchi did at 13. Itatchi seems to be a very rare Genious, i dont think Neji compares. Itatchi also is more of a genious it seems than most people, i REALLY doubt neji is his equal.

Opinion from my part? I'm stating what Its been said already in the manga.

I never said Neeji is Itachi equal, I said: lets take the best geniuses of each clan.

As you said there is no other Hyuga to compare with Neeji, is already been stated that Neeji has inherit the most of the Hyuga bloodline. not to mention, just like Neeji, we don't know it there was any other Uchiha in the History of the clan that is/was superior to Itachi, like the 3rd MS user, who knows if he is better than Itachi.

Sasuke has been compared to Neji however, as both being a genious of different graduations. I think they are fine being compared, their abilities seem to be quite equal.

Just as Neeji is not on the Level of Itachi, Sasuke was not on the Level of Neeji, they were only compared by Ten Ten because both were the top rookies in their respective Graduation Year, thats all, for heavens sake, Sasuke could not even Defeat Lee when Lee was not close to Neeji. and is fact goes it was stated that Sasuke was not on Neeji level.

It isn't a VS. competition, it is vs a random ninja. My money would be on hinata and her deadly jyuuken vs a random ninja around her level. What does Obito have? Higher dodge abilities and whatever jutsu he might already know? Hinata could 1 hit kill the guy...

Lets not forget that you were the one that begin using Names, in the moment you do that, it becomes a VS which its not what we are looking for.

Either way, What does any Sharingan user has? what is this? you underrating what the Sharingan does and overrating HInata when she is a mediocre Shinoby.

Yes , any Sharingan user (in this case The Geniuses Uchihas) at Hinata's level Is going to Evade and counter; HInata with her Taijutsu will not be able to lay a finger on someone with Sharingan on the same level as HInata, meaning HInata will not have any chance at all.

You still don't swallow that?, then lets use Manga facts then.

Sasuke was loosing poorly to Haku (another superb genius that was above Sasukes level), in the moment Sasuke begun to read Haku's movement and finally awoke the Sharingan, what was Hakus words?

..Then, I can't fight for much longer, this jutsu uses up a lot of Chakra, there is a limit on how long I can keep up this speed.

Most likely the longer this fight goes, the better you will be bale to read my movements, if your eyes are starting to catch me then ....<Attacking him head on could be dangerous>

Haku was already trying to figure out how to Tangle someone with a recently gained Sharingan, despite Having a significant edge in the fight before.

Haku's speed compared to Sasuke's was much greater, and just gaining the Shairngan became Haku changing his battle tactic and stop to use his attack on Sasuke, because the Sharingan became an upgrade so big, Haku's Jutsu became Useless. And The only thing Haku could do? Use Naruto as a bait to Defeat Sasuke.

So, let alone someone as HInata which does not have that kind of speed. for a Sharingan user, evading and countering HInata will be a play.

Of course it doesnt, however my point was young sharingan user with newly developed sharingan compared to a similar byakugen user of the same age. I never stated i was comparing the two eyes. So if you don't wish to debate this, then no need to reply, as i was never comparing the eyes themselves.

Well, you should have read the title of this thread, and this still does not change the fact that The Shinoby with Byakugan could only be superior because of the training of the Jyuken, not because of the Byakugan.

Lets do this then: A Byakugan trained with the Jyken, and A Uchiha Trained by A SAnin since birth and having the Recently gained Sharingan.

In the moment you introduced and outside factor of the Doujutsu, then what you are doing is giving favorable situations to the one you like the most. meaning this is not turning into a Dojutsu debate, rather than a Debate about strength of people that happens to have a dojutsu in the process.

Let me also remind you that despite that training you mentioned, the ones that were considered the strongest Clan was not the Hyuga's, it was the Uchiha's.

Again, it is shown even non-genious byakugen users develop their byakugen very young, and train jyuuken at the age they start to study martial arts. A sharingan user however, on average, will develop it later, around the age of 12-13, giving a byakugen user more of an advantage vs a random ninja then a sharingan user will have (at the age of 12 ill say again).

NO it does not, a Byakugan user will just have that a Nice taijutsu style, which does not make them invisible, the UChiha's however were all geniuses, without the Shairngan, this still gave them an advantage in batle.but in the moment they had Shairngan let me Re quote once again a fact stated in the Manga.

When One on One, RUN

The Problem of a Taijuts is that is based on movement, movement that can be read by any other Shinoby, a A person with Jyuken can be defeated by any good shinoby, whereas you need to have a very good strategy of fight to defeat someone that can: Evade, counter, Copy and Hypnotize you./..(Ohh yeah I forgot to mention sharingan does give that power to the person, Sharingan can also copy the mind).

Your problem is that you think that a Hyuga trained in the Jyuken style has not match, however, this is not true, they just have a Taijutus style that is deadly, but you just need to use a long Range Shinoby, and the one that will be in trouble is going to be the Hyuga.

Again, i will take a 1 hit kill over better dodging any day. Even if it isnt a one hit kill, one hit will still injur them a lot.

And since when does Byaukgan give you the Ability on one hit Kill? last time I checked, the MS can do that.

To sum up, i was speculating the advantages of both power-wise. I stated that at an early age it woudl be more useful to be a byakugen user. However at later ages, sharingan wins hands down.

It would be more useful because you are parting from the observation off Gaining the Byakugan and Learning Jyuken style, however if you are A Byakugan user that was born outside konoha there is no guarantee you will have a combat purpose use of the eye.

this whole purpose of this thread is to compare Only and Only both Powers of the Doujutsu, who has the best ability, and not try to compare the Doujutsu in a certain point in life with specific situations.

crashmatrix

2006-11-11, 17:10

Byukugan, because I'm a sucker for Hinata http://home.hccnet.nl/crashmatrix/var/ko.gif

On the serious side, I'm one for sneak attacks / spy missions, where imo byukugan gives you a serious edge :)

Silver Dragon

2006-11-11, 20:27

I prefer Byakugan, you can see through things so it makes it easier to land blows.

Dauthi

2006-11-12, 02:18

Opinion from my part? I'm stating what Its been said already in the manga.

I never said Neeji is Itachi equal, I said: lets take the best geniuses of each clan.

As you said there is no other Hyuga to compare with Neeji, is already been stated that Neeji has inherit the most of the Hyuga bloodline. not to mention, just like Neeji, we don't know it there was any other Uchiha in the History of the clan that is/was superior to Itachi, like the 3rd MS user, who knows if he is better than Itachi.

There may have been an extremely amazing Byakugen user that was able to accomplish as much as Itatchi at his age, such as rank, but Neji couldn't even get chuunin at what? Age 14? Neji surely couldn't defeat his entire clan either, judging by his uncle, he alone could take neji down. Very bad comparison, you cant justify it by saying "take the best of each clan" when Neji is the best we know of, and he is not as strong as Itatchi.

Just as Neeji is not on the Level of Itachi, Sasuke was not on the Level of Neeji, they were only compared by Ten Ten because both were the top rookies in their respective Graduation Year, thats all, for heavens sake, Sasuke could not even Defeat Lee when Lee was not close to Neeji. and is fact goes it was stated that Sasuke was not on Neeji level.

No, there is a huge gap with neji/itatchi. Both Sasuke and Neji couldnt attain chuunin, and Itatchi is easily around Sannin level. There is very little gap between Neji/Sasuke. Remember Neji is older, this is why he is stronger than Sasuke at this point, he has a year of training/missions and experience on Sasuke. This is the reason there is a slight gap between them. This further proves my point, as Sasuke will soon pass him up now that he has had time to copy jutsu.

If you took a Sasuke that had a year of training with Oro, and faced him against Neji who is still the same age as when he fought Naruto (and Sasuke is now his age), I would easily say they are even matched.

Lets not forget that you were the one that begin using Names, in the moment you do that, it becomes a VS which its not what we are looking for.

I meant not them fighting eachother. Obviously Sharingan will have advantages against byakugen, and visa versa. My point has nothing to do with this, but rather during missions/battles which bloodline would be more useful.

I was speculating this simply to consider which i would prefer, and why, which is exactly what most of the people are doing here... no?

Either way, What does any Sharingan user has? what is this? you underrating what the Sharingan does and overrating HInata when she is a mediocre Shinoby.

Yes , any Sharingan user (in this case The Geniuses Uchihas) at Hinata's level Is going to Evade and counter; HInata with her Taijutsu will not be able to lay a finger on someone with Sharingan on the same level as HInata, meaning HInata will not have any chance at all.

You still don't swallow that?, then lets use Manga facts then.

Sasuke was loosing poorly to Haku (another superb genius that was above Sasukes level), in the moment Sasuke begun to read Haku's movement and finally awoke the Sharingan, what was Hakus words?

Again, im not having them fight eachother. I am thinking against random ninjas, and which would be more useful. Sharingan would obviously help dodge, but at this point have no offense. At the same time, byakugen at this age would have still potent offense, being the strongest hand to hand style combat.

Haku was already trying to figure out how to Tangle someone with a recently gained Sharingan, despite Having a significant edge in the fight before.

Haku's speed compared to Sasuke's was much greater, and just gaining the Shairngan became Haku changing his battle tactic and stop to use his attack on Sasuke, because the Sharingan became an upgrade so big, Haku's Jutsu became Useless. And The only thing Haku could do? Use Naruto as a bait to Defeat Sasuke.

This is debatable, Haku wasn't obviously trying either. It is nice he could dodge with his sharingan, but only to an extent. The main function of the sharingan is gaining jutsu through experience, and when you first obtain it, you are missing this huge facet of the bloodline. His dodging was impressive, but i admitted that point already.

So, let alone someone as HInata which does not have that kind of speed. for a Sharingan user, evading and countering HInata will be a play.

Again, not having them fight eachother.

Well, you should have read the title of this thread, and this still does not change the fact that The Shinoby with Byakugan could only be superior because of the training of the Jyuken, not because of the Byakugan.

ok... again not my point. I already stated i understand what this topic is about, and that there is a difference between byakugen and jyuuken.

Lets do this then: A Byakugan trained with the Jyken, and A Uchiha Trained by A SAnin since birth and having the Recently gained Sharingan.

In the moment you introduced and outside factor of the Doujutsu, then what you are doing is giving favorable situations to the one you like the most. meaning this is not turning into a Dojutsu debate, rather than a Debate about strength of people that happens to have a dojutsu in the process.

Let me also remind you that despite that training you mentioned, the ones that were considered the strongest Clan was not the Hyuga's, it was the Uchiha's.

I grabbed neji and sasuke because most would agree at the same age, they are probably equals. I really dont care if you said random sharingan user A and random sharingan user B, my point still remains.

Also, an average ninja byakugen user is trained jyuuken from birth, thats just how it is.

NO it does not, a Byakugan user will just have that a Nice taijutsu style, which does not make them invisible, the UChiha's however were all geniuses, without the Shairngan, this still gave them an advantage in batle.but in the moment they had Shairngan let me Re quote once again a fact stated in the Manga.

When One on One, RUN

The Problem of a Taijuts is that is based on movement, movement that can be read by any other Shinoby, a A person with Jyuken can be defeated by any good shinoby, whereas you need to have a very good strategy of fight to defeat someone that can: Evade, counter, Copy and Hypnotize you./..(Ohh yeah I forgot to mention sharingan does give that power to the person, Sharingan can also copy the mind).

First off, let me say almost nobody will agree that all uchihas were genious'. Obviously Sasuke was, and his brother. Other Uchihas however in contrast, pale in comparison to them (as well as other ninjas). This is what makes them a genious, the definition of a genious. They have the natural wit and intelligence to be a ninja.

Now, a just developed sharingan user can at thier first few fights, simply dodge. Sure they can copy any jutsu from the first few battles, but they still dont even close to the amount of jutsu an experienced sharingan user will have. They will have virtually no, or little jutsu to use, other than a few copies, and what they have learned before getting the sharingan. Also, we have never seen Sasuke use the sharingan to hypnotize, this proves that it takes awhile to develop that.

Your problem is that you think that a Hyuga trained in the Jyuken style has not match, however, this is not true, they just have a Taijutus style that is deadly, but you just need to use a long Range Shinoby, and the one that will be in trouble is going to be the Hyuga.

This logic is faulty. When i say match them up, i mean with a non specialized ninja. You could say "well you can match a sharingan user up with someone who moves too fast for them to dodge!" thus giving the same as your statement above, but against a sharingan user. Im saying in general, having trained the ultimate hand to hand combat would be more useful than merely upgraded dodging against a random ninja.

And since when does Byaukgan give you the Ability on one hit Kill? last time I checked, the MS can do that.

Umm.. who are you arguing with? I am talking the bloodlines at an early age. MS is not obtained at an early age, especially not for the average sharingan user. All a new sharingan user has at an early age is dodging, and the jutsu they have copied, which is very little.

It would be more useful because you are parting from the observation off Gaining the Byakugan and Learning Jyuken style, however if you are A Byakugan user that was born outside konoha there is no guarantee you will have a combat purpose use of the eye.

And what byakugen user is born outside of Konoha (if any do) and becomes a ninja.... They are a noble clan, the nobles litterally tie the non-nobles to a leash that can insta-kill them. You think they would let byakugen users roam around outside of konoha, and have their secret revealed whenever? The plot has directly stated this wouldn't happen.
In any case lets use this funny logic on a sharingan user. Lets say you are not a ninja, and live outside Konoha. Guess what, you will probably never have sharingan. If you dont enter battles, or even know what chakra is, you probably will never activate it.

this whole purpose of this thread is to compare Only and Only both Powers of the Doujutsu, who has the best ability, and not try to compare the Doujutsu in a certain point in life with specific situations.

Again, you are arguing against nobody. I stated that at an early age, a byakugen user would have a better advantage from his bloodline, but later sharingan becomes a lot better to have. There are no specific situations. Everyone is age 1-13 at one point right? Age 1-13 or so Byakugen seems to have more benefits, while 13 or so + sharingan takes the lead. My statement if very general, in most situations being a young byakugen user seems to have more advantages. But at later teens that fades quickly.

This is speculation on if i were in the naruto universe, which would i want to be, which seems to be the main topic here. Because the Sharingan is so overpowered later in life (kinda later, late teens is still pretty young) i would prefer to have it if i were a ninja, obviously =p

ri0

2006-11-12, 08:23

:eyespin: lol..you should try to read everything...yeah they are long..but read them...:p

But then I would have to reply to those stupid posts and right now I got better stuff (drawing teeth -.-) to do^^

inferno_grl

2006-11-12, 09:06

i'd like to change my mind on the accounts of "cause i can do 'dat", i'd much rather have the byakuga rather than the sharingan. red on not, byakuga is better.

itachiofakatsuki

2006-11-12, 14:43

I would choose the byukugan because it is more useful in battle and you can see
through stuff like bras,panties,and girls lockerrooms

Mr. Johnny 5

2006-11-12, 15:26

I would choose the byukugan because it is more useful in battle and you can see
through stuff like bras,panties,and girls lockerrooms

Yeah most people would use that last line as an excuse but if you are a shinobi....and you focus on the last line (Jiraiya) then you are a joker.

But yeah i'd pick Byakugan aswell. You can see from miles whether someone is approaching. And if you'd suddenly see that those are akatsuki guy's (assume you dont stand a chance) then you can start running...before you have eye - contact.

If you have a sharingan in this case...you'd be doomed. Besides if you'd include the abilities of a Hyuuga Body then i'd say Hyuuga is definetly better.

As for the comparing between Itachi & Neji:

[Neji is a super genius]
- He came up with the moves Kaiten & Tenketsu 64 (Hakke..) on his own.
- He mastered Juuken (on his own), he can control chakra from his pores.
- As far as we know there is no lvl above Byakugan...

[Itachi is also a super genius]
- He (probably) slaughtered the entire clan on his own.
- He was already able to use his sharingan on the age of 8.
- Unlocked Mangkeyou Sharingan when he was 11. (means he killed his friend pretty quick) however it would seem he read about it...and didnt invent it.

Their bloodline limits are different so their growth is also different. However in Neji's case to come up with such strong Hyuuga moves on his own is....an exceptional talent (prodigy).

Itachi seems to know about a 3rd MS user, suddenly was aware of the Clan's secrets...joined Akatsuki before the Massacre...so it's almost safe to assume that this 3rd user notified Itachi about everything.

Tsyukomi is a genjutsu...everything could've been a lie...except for his doujutsu's techniques and the assasination of his best friend. And we know that MS is his biggest ace...which also has nasty side effects..

itachiofakatsuki

2006-11-12, 17:09

the buyukgan would kick the sharingans butt

Sabaku Kyu

2006-11-12, 17:19

[Neji is a super genius]
- He came up with the moves Kaiten & Tenketsu 64 (Hakke..) on his own.
- He mastered Juuken (on his own), he can control chakra from his pores.
- As far as we know there is no lvl above Byakugan...

Neji didn't invent Kaiten or Hakke, these are techniques handed down to members of the main house in the Hyuuga clan.

inferno_grl

2006-11-12, 17:32

ooh... face. he's right you know.

Dauthi

2006-11-12, 21:20

Neji didn't invent Kaiten or Hakke, these are techniques handed down to members of the main house in the Hyuuga clan.

I think what he is referring to is that he trained those secret abilities with anyones help. I would think he knew of them though, and didn't invent an identical jutsu and for some coincidence also named it kaiten etc =p. But imagine Naruto trying to train the resangan by simply seeing it. Incredibly difficult, however he is a genious, so he pulled it off.

Again, i think most people would agree Itatchi is a Genious of the genious', so can't quite be counted among them. Instead, most would think he is a class of his own (looking at what he had accomplished before he left leaf). Sasuke was considered a genious, but he hadn't accomplished 75% of what Itatchi had at his age. Neither has Neji.

Sabaku Kyu

2006-11-12, 22:40

i think most people would agree Itatchi is a Genious of the genious', so can't quite be counted among them. Instead, most would think he is a class of his own (looking at what he had accomplished before he left leaf). Sasuke was considered a genious, but he hadn't accomplished 75% of what Itatchi had at his age. Neither has Neji.

Yeah, that's why it's sometimes hard to use Itachi as an example of Sharingan's superiority over Byakugan because it's hard to determine how much of his abilities you attribute to the Sharingan and how much to attribute to natural talent. Seeing as how the Hyuuga clan has not shown any members on par with Itachi's skill, no Hyuuga can be compared with Itachi.

Likewise, Neji's supposed superiority over Sasuke during the chuunin tournament isn't really a case for Byakugan's superiority over Sharingan since like you said Neji had a full year of experience and training over Sasuke. Furthermore, they never fought. Nobody expected Naruto to have a chance against Neji. Who knows what would've happened if Sasuke and Neji had fought. There really didn't seem to be any significant difference in skill. I guess there's a chance that they might fight sometime in the future. If they do, that will be a good basis for Byakugan versus Sharingan.

But if you take MS attacks into account. Sharingan has the clear advantage. There might be special scenarios where Byakugan is more useful, but nearly all justu and bloodlines have situations where they are preferable to any other technique. In the majority of situations MS is going to be more powerful than anything Byakugan can offer.

Rurik

2006-11-13, 01:13

First off, I want to apologize for any spelling error, this post is large, And I was drunk when i Was doing it =p

There may have been an extremely amazing Byakugen user that was able to accomplish as much as Itatchi at his age, such as rank, but Neji couldn't even get chuunin at what? Age 14? Neji surely couldn't defeat his entire clan either, judging by his uncle, he alone could take neji down. Very bad comparison, you cant justify it by saying "take the best of each clan" when Neji is the best we know of, and he is not as strong as Itatchi.

What? I point you out manga facts that there is and there is never was a better Hyuga than neeji, creating Hyuga's that does not exist is just pushing it too far just to prove your point.

Fact is the best Hyuga we know is Neeji, the Best Uchiha We Know is Itachi, don't come here creating inmaginary Hyuga's just to prove your point, when I been avoiding to use the 3rd MS user without knowing if he is superior than Itachi, we have to use what we got, not what you feel you want to use for your convenience.

Reason what I have even change Itachi and Neeji to down to earth Characters.

The Moment you say Lets Compare Neeji to Any Other UChiha except Itachi, you are doing it just to put your point in favor.

No, there is a huge gap with neji/itatchi. Both Sasuke and Neji couldnt attain chuunin, and Itatchi is easily around Sannin level. There is very little gap between Neji/Sasuke. Remember Neji is older, this is why he is stronger than Sasuke at this point, he has a year of training/missions and experience on Sasuke. This is the reason there is a slight gap between them. This further proves my point, as Sasuke will soon pass him up now that he has had time to copy jutsu.

Or you are either avoiding the point or you just plain don't read my post:

Neeji was said to be above Sasuke, THATS a fact, it does not matter that YOU think they were close, Manga state other wise.

And Neeji could not attain Chunin because he was fihgting with his heart instead of his brain. Neeji proved that in other conditions of fighting he would had gain chunin Status.

First off, let me say almost nobody will agree that all uchihas were genious'. Obviously Sasuke was, and his brother. Other Uchihas however in contrast, pale in comparison to them (as well as other ninjas). This is what makes them a genious, the definition of a genious. They have the natural wit and intelligence to be a ninja.

Sight, it does not matter what what people end up telling, as most of people tough that

Assuma and Sarutobi were not related.

All Uchihas as Geniuses is a fact From the Databook. if people think otherwise, would be only because of personal preference and Bias, and not because it represent a fact from the Manga.

That other Uchihas Pale in comparison only to Itahci (you don't know how they would end up against Sasuke) does not make the other UChiha's Non Geniuses.

Point is, you can't compare Neeji with Sasuke at that momnet given IT was stated Neeji was better Than Sasuke.

If you took a Sasuke that had a year of training with Oro, and faced him against Neji who is still the same age as when he fought Naruto (and Sasuke is now his age), I would easily say they are even matched.

IN the moment Sasuke Gained the 3rd dot he was way above Neeji level, thats a fact, Sasuke would had not need to train with ORo. and before you come here trying to prove otherwise, Neeji could barely keep on with a NAruto that just Release Kyuby power, whereas That same NAruto With Kyuby Power released could not do anything about Sasuke.

I meant not them fighting eachother. Obviously Sharingan will have advantages against byakugen, and visa versa. My point has nothing to do with this, but rather during missions/battles which bloodline would be more useful.

I was speculating this simply to consider which i would prefer, and why, which is exactly what most of the people are doing here... no

Still, Facts prove you that when we talk about BAtle situations, Sharingan was show to be superior, and thats a fact, as each time Sharingan was the trump card to the battle, whereas the Byakugan was not.

Again, im not having them fight each other. I am thinking against random ninjas, and which would be more useful. Sharingan would obviously help dodge, but at this point have no offense. At the same time, byakugen at this age would have still potent offense, being the strongest hand to hand style combat.

Listen, lets do it like this, because you are practically making up things. Tell me, what are the Byakugan abbiliies?

I bet you that of the Byakugan Abilities there is nothing that could help to do an Attack. why? Because you are confusing Byakugan with Jyuken.

ONE more time., Byakugan with Jyuken are the reason why a Hyuga would have a Offensive attack against somebody, However Jyuken is not a Ability of the Byakugan, Byakugan and Jyuken are 2 different Things.

And If you keep using Jyuken as a way to prove your point, then I will start using MS to prove my point.

This is debatable, Haku wasn't obviously trying either. It is nice he could dodge with his sharingan, but only to an extent. The main function of the sharingan is gaining jutsu through experience, and when you first obtain it, you are missing this huge facet of the bloodline. His dodging was impressive, but i admitted that point already.

Ehhhh? Haku was not trying before Sassuke Begun to dodge all his attack, in the moment Sasuke begun to awake his Sharingan, things turned difficult for Haku.

One more time, we are Talking about The Sharingan, we have a direct FACT from the Manga that Showed you that the Sahringan in a battle situation can Change the outcome of a battle.

In one point Haku had the upper Hand..BuM!!!!!!, enters the Sharingan And Haku needs to Change his battler Tactics.

Once again, Sahrigan in not only about Dodging and Copying.Sahringan Understands and Cancels the effect of The Taijutsus, Ninjutsu and Genejutsus, and also it can Copy the mind, and it gives the Shinoby Hypnotizing ability.

Again, not having them fight each other.

I will keep that in mind then.

I grabbed neji and sasuke because most would agree at the same age, they are probably equals. I really dont care if you said random sharingan user A and random sharingan user B, my point still remains.

Also, an average ninja byakugen user is trained jyuuken from birth, thats just how it is.

And it does not matter, you are still using Jyuken as way to prove your point, Jyuken is only teach, because is a Jutsu pass down in the Hyukgas, however, Having Byakugan is not a Guarantee that you will know Jyuken.

In fact, You only mentioned Jyuken, but those who could developed Sharingan were already known to be superior than The Hyuga.

Now, a just developed sharingan user can at thier first few fights, simply dodge. Sure they can copy any jutsu from the first few battles, but they still dont even close to the amount of jutsu an experienced sharingan user will have. They will have virtually no, or little jutsu to use, other than a few copies, and what they have learned before getting the sharingan.

A just developed Sharingan is Good Enough to Turn The Tables against A Shinoby that was Almost equal to Kakashi.

Been able to Evade and to counter ( why you keep telling dodging, when what it does it Evade and Counter?) Its good enough to defeat any Shinoby that is on your same level.

Also, we have never seen Sasuke use the sharingan to hypnotize, this proves that it takes awhile to develop that.

This only proves that Sasuke did not used it, thats all.

This logic is faulty. When i say match them up, i mean with a non specialized ninja. You could say "well you can match a sharingan user up with someone who moves too fast for them to dodge!" thus giving the same as your statement above, but against a sharingan user. Im saying in general, having trained the ultimate hand to hand combat would be more useful than merely upgraded dodging against a random ninja.

And this is just FALSE. Someone Trained in Jyuken will not make them above a random Shinboy, given a Random Shinoby could be anything from a Shinoby that does not have a single attack, to a Shinoby like Kidoumaru that was practically the Anti-thesis of a Hyuga.

The only thing you are doing is making specific match up so your Byakugan user will be seen as the one with the edge.

And once Again I repeat, You are using Jyuken, which is not an Ability of the Byakugan.

Umm.. who are you arguing with? I am talking the bloodlines at an early age. MS is not obtained at an early age, especially not for the average sharingan user. All a new sharingan user has at an early age is dodging, and the jutsu they have copied, which is very little.

It seems you are not Reading the post, Where was it stated that Byakugan can give you the ability of one hit Kill? thats an Ability of the Jyujken, not of The Byakugan, Byakugan and Jyuken are 2 Different and Independent things, is does not matter that you can use the Byakugan since birth, if you are not trained the Jyuken, you cant have the ability of one hit Kill...But wait, If you gain the Sharingan, and the MS, there is A high Chance you end up with a one hit kill Jutsu without a training.

And what byakugen user is born outside of Konoha (if any do) and becomes a ninja....

Do you want me to respond you with what this thread is about, or do you want me to respond you with Manga facts?

1-This thread is about BYAKUGAN AND SHARINGAN, so Anything that does not comes from the Byakugan or Shairngan, are things that does not have to do with the thread.

2- The people of the HIden country of the cloud tried to steel the Hugas bloodline, I wonder who would had teach this people the Jyuken if they would had been successful at steeling the Byakugan.

They are a noble clan, the nobles litterally tie the non-nobles to a leash that can insta-kill them. You think they would let byakugen users roam around outside of konoha, and have their secret revealed whenever? The plot has directly stated this wouldn't happen.

YEah right, Ask HInata how she is a Shinoby without the Seal, and she is practically the same as Neeji.

Bottom line is that it does not matter whether the Hyugas has a control over the people that goes outside the Village, they still are vurnerable as the Neeji flashback showed you.

In any case lets use this funny logic on a sharingan user. Lets say you are not a ninja, and live outside Konoha. Guess what, you will probably never have sharingan. If you don't enter battles, or even know what chakra is, you probably will never activate it.

Let me say that this sentence is contradictory and does not has anything to do with the Thread. First you said Sharingan user,so this mean he will have the Sahringan, opposite to what you said "Guess what, you will probably never have sharingan"

Second of All, I have never said take the Byakugan outside KOnoha and take away the Byakugan ability from the Byakugan user, I said Just take the Byuakugan user outside Konoha, without taking away the ability the Byakugan gives to the person.

Once again I repeat this is a Byakugna and Shairngan comparison, not a UChiha and Hyuga comparison, which is what you are doing right now.

Again, you are arguing against nobody. I stated that at an early age, a byakugen user would have a better advantage from his bloodline, but later sharingan becomes a lot better to have. There are no specific situations. Everyone is age 1-13 at one point right? Age 1-13 or so Byakugen seems to have more benefits, while 13 or so + sharingan takes the lead. My statement if very general, in most situations being a young byakugen user seems to have more advantages. But at later teens that fades quickly.

You seem to be lost in your own points.

Question, why would the Byakugan user could have and advantage of a Sahringan user on an early age?

Lets break Down this:

You are parting from the premise of Uchihas vs Hyugas, why? because you are parting that The Hyugas gain the Bayakugan at earlier stage whereas the Uchihas do not. Ok,let use this comparison:

A)what would happen If a Sharingan is Implanted on a person that was recently born, and after 13 years a person is implanted the Byakugan.

Who would had the advantage?

B)What Would Happen If A Shinoby at age 13 is Implanted the Sharingan and a shinoby at age 13 is Implanted the Byakugan?

Who would had the Advantage?

C) What Would happen to 2 Shinobies, Uchiha and Hyuga born outside Konoha they are teach the way of the Shinoby, and both of them has the Doujtsu , but obviously the Byakugan user dont know the Jyuken.

Who would had the Advantage?

Bottom line, what you are doing is an Uchiha and Hyuga comparison, you are Taking a newly Born Hyuga that is teach the Jyuken and A newly Born UChiha were there is a possibility he would not gain the Sharingan and comparing them both.

This is speculation on if i were in the naruto universe, which would i want to be, which seems to be the main topic here. Because the Sharingan is so overpowered later in life (kinda later, late teens is still pretty young) i would prefer to have it if i were a ninja, obviously =p

You seem to get wrong the speculation, the speculation goes to what doujtsut would you like to have, barring the Taijutsu teach by the Hyugas.

It would go like this:

IF you wake up tomorrow, what Dojutsu wold you prefer, or what Dojutsu is better?

When We talk about this, this is niot including:
-MS

-Having a teacher Training you Jyuken

-Leaning Katon Jutsu

-Having the superior Blood of he UChihas

Is Like you are Kakshi before receiving the Shairngan, if you were him, what Doojutsu you would had prefer, knowing that the Hyugas will not teach you anything about the Jyuyken.

This is was kept the mods from closing this thread to beggin wiht.

Dauthi

2006-11-13, 12:17

First off, I want to apologize for any spelling error, this post is large, And I was drunk when i Was doing it =p

What? I point you out manga facts that there is and there is never was a better Hyuga than neeji, creating Hyuga's that does not exist is just pushing it too far just to prove your point.

Fact is the best Hyuga we know is Neeji, the Best Uchiha We Know is Itachi, don't come here creating inmaginary Hyuga's just to prove your point, when I been avoiding to use the 3rd MS user without knowing if he is superior than Itachi, we have to use what we got, not what you feel you want to use for your convenience.

Reason what I have even change Itachi and Neeji to down to earth Characters.

The Moment you say Lets Compare Neeji to Any Other UChiha except Itachi, you are doing it just to put your point in favor.

Or you are either avoiding the point or you just plain don't read my post:

Neeji was said to be above Sasuke, THATS a fact, it does not matter that YOU think they were close, Manga state other wise.

And Neeji could not attain Chunin because he was fihgting with his heart instead of his brain. Neeji proved that in other conditions of fighting he would had gain chunin Status.

Sight, it does not matter what what people end up telling, as most of people tough that

Assuma and Sarutobi were not related.

All Uchihas as Geniuses is a fact From the Databook. if people think otherwise, would be only because of personal preference and Bias, and not because it represent a fact from the Manga.

That other Uchihas Pale in comparison only to Itahci (you don't know how they would end up against Sasuke) does not make the other UChiha's Non Geniuses.

Point is, you can't compare Neeji with Sasuke at that momnet given IT was stated Neeji was better Than Sasuke.

IN the moment Sasuke Gained the 3rd dot he was way above Neeji level, thats a fact, Sasuke would had not need to train with ORo. and before you come here trying to prove otherwise, Neeji could barely keep on with a NAruto that just Release Kyuby power, whereas That same NAruto With Kyuby Power released could not do anything about Sasuke.

Still, Facts prove you that when we talk about BAtle situations, Sharingan was show to be superior, and thats a fact, as each time Sharingan was the trump card to the battle, whereas the Byakugan was not.

Listen, lets do it like this, because you are practically making up things. Tell me, what are the Byakugan abbiliies?

I bet you that of the Byakugan Abilities there is nothing that could help to do an Attack. why? Because you are confusing Byakugan with Jyuken.

ONE more time., Byakugan with Jyuken are the reason why a Hyuga would have a Offensive attack against somebody, However Jyuken is not a Ability of the Byakugan, Byakugan and Jyuken are 2 different Things.

And If you keep using Jyuken as a way to prove your point, then I will start using MS to prove my point.

Ehhhh? Haku was not trying before Sassuke Begun to dodge all his attack, in the moment Sasuke begun to awake his Sharingan, things turned difficult for Haku.

One more time, we are Talking about The Sharingan, we have a direct FACT from the Manga that Showed you that the Sahringan in a battle situation can Change the outcome of a battle.

In one point Haku had the upper Hand..BuM!!!!!!, enters the Sharingan And Haku needs to Change his battler Tactics.

Once again, Sahrigan in not only about Dodging and Copying.Sahringan Understands and Cancels the effect of The Taijutsus, Ninjutsu and Genejutsus, and also it can Copy the mind, and it gives the Shinoby Hypnotizing ability.

I will keep that in mind then.

And it does not matter, you are still using Jyuken as way to prove your point, Jyuken is only teach, because is a Jutsu pass down in the Hyukgas, however, Having Byakugan is not a Guarantee that you will know Jyuken.

In fact, You only mentioned Jyuken, but those who could developed Sharingan were already known to be superior than The Hyuga.

A just developed Sharingan is Good Enough to Turn The Tables against A Shinoby that was Almost equal to Kakashi.

Been able to Evade and to counter ( why you keep telling dodging, when what it does it Evade and Counter?) Its good enough to defeat any Shinoby that is on your same level.

This only proves that Sasuke did not used it, thats all.

And this is just FALSE. Someone Trained in Jyuken will not make them above a random Shinboy, given a Random Shinoby could be anything from a Shinoby that does not have a single attack, to a Shinoby like Kidoumaru that was practically the Anti-thesis of a Hyuga.

The only thing you are doing is making specific match up so your Byakugan user will be seen as the one with the edge.

And once Again I repeat, You are using Jyuken, which is not an Ability of the Byakugan.

It seems you are not Reading the post, Where was it stated that Byakugan can give you the ability of one hit Kill? thats an Ability of the Jyujken, not of The Byakugan, Byakugan and Jyuken are 2 Different and Independent things, is does not matter that you can use the Byakugan since birth, if you are not trained the Jyuken, you cant have the ability of one hit Kill...But wait, If you gain the Sharingan, and the MS, there is A high Chance you end up with a one hit kill Jutsu without a training.

Do you want me to respond you with what this thread is about, or do you want me to respond you with Manga facts?

1-This thread is about BYAKUGAN AND SHARINGAN, so Anything that does not comes from the Byakugan or Shairngan, are things that does not have to do with the thread.

2- The people of the HIden country of the cloud tried to steel the Hugas bloodline, I wonder who would had teach this people the Jyuken if they would had been successful at steeling the Byakugan.

YEah right, Ask HInata how she is a Shinoby without the Seal, and she is practically the same as Neeji.

Bottom line is that it does not matter whether the Hyugas has a control over the people that goes outside the Village, they still are vurnerable as the Neeji flashback showed you.

Let me say that this sentence is contradictory and does not has anything to do with the Thread. First you said Sharingan user,so this mean he will have the Sahringan, opposite to what you said "Guess what, you will probably never have sharingan"

Second of All, I have never said take the Byakugan outside KOnoha and take away the Byakugan ability from the Byakugan user, I said Just take the Byuakugan user outside Konoha, without taking away the ability the Byakugan gives to the person.

Once again I repeat this is a Byakugna and Shairngan comparison, not a UChiha and Hyuga comparison, which is what you are doing right now.

You seem to be lost in your own points.

Question, why would the Byakugan user could have and advantage of a Sahringan user on an early age?

Lets break Down this:

You are parting from the premise of Uchihas vs Hyugas, why? because you are parting that The Hyugas gain the Bayakugan at earlier stage whereas the Uchihas do not. Ok,let use this comparison:

A)what would happen If a Sharingan is Implanted on a person that was recently born, and after 13 years a person is implanted the Byakugan.

Who would had the advantage?

B)What Would Happen If A Shinoby at age 13 is Implanted the Sharingan and a shinoby at age 13 is Implanted the Byakugan?

Who would had the Advantage?

C) What Would happen to 2 Shinobies, Uchiha and Hyuga born outside Konoha they are teach the way of the Shinoby, and both of them has the Doujtsu , but obviously the Byakugan user dont know the Jyuken.

Who would had the Advantage?

Bottom line, what you are doing is an Uchiha and Hyuga comparison, you are Taking a newly Born Hyuga that is teach the Jyuken and A newly Born UChiha were there is a possibility he would not gain the Sharingan and comparing them both.

You seem to get wrong the speculation, the speculation goes to what doujtsut would you like to have, barring the Taijutsu teach by the Hyugas.

It would go like this:

IF you wake up tomorrow, what Dojutsu wold you prefer, or what Dojutsu is better?

When We talk about this, this is niot including:
-MS

-Having a teacher Training you Jyuken

-Leaning Katon Jutsu

-Having the superior Blood of he UChihas

Is Like you are Kakshi before receiving the Shairngan, if you were him, what Doojutsu you would had prefer, knowing that the Hyugas will not teach you anything about the Jyuyken.

This is was kept the mods from closing this thread to beggin wiht.

I think you missed what i said. I am the one who argued with hunter about jyuuken/byakugen. In fact my argument was that they were both totally seperate entities, which i wont go into. So as i have mentioned, i understand that.

As for Neji/Sasuke/Itatchi, i ask anyone reading this to agree or disagree with me if they think that Itatchi is on a level of genious beyond both Sasuke and Neji. Im positive most people will disagree with you. It is unfair to compare Neji to Itatchi simply because Neji is the only genious of he Hyuuga family. In all honesty, it seems downright rediculous.

Second, Neji is better than sasuke as i stated not because he is more of a genious, but because he is a year older than sasuke and had completed b ranks, even a rank missions at that point? He had a lot of experience at that point, Sasuke did not. Now if Sasuke were a year older than Neji, it would be the opposite. I guess Lee is a better genious than Sasuke too because he easily defeated Sasuke. If i had a year ahead of you to learn something, i would be better than you, would i not? So yes, he was better than Sasuke as the manga stated.

Third, neji lost chuunin fair and square, don't make up excuses for him. He was not mature enough to be one. He let his idiotic notions hold back his abilities, which in the end proved he was not ready to be a chuunin. There is no ifs ands or buts about it. Shika and possibly Shino seemed to be the only ones worthy, and mature enough to handle leadership without letting foolish emotions get in the way *COUGH*NEJI*COUGH*. To let your prejudices interfere with a test of your abilities? This was not smart, and proved he is not a good leader yet.

About the haku battle, he was never fighting to kill, and i admitted the sharingan dodging ability helps, but imo not as much as gentle fist, in a general situation. So please don't go inserting byakugen in this situation, etc. This situation was made for Sharingan to shine (plot-no-jutsu).

-------------------------

Now i am going to drop all these foolish offshoots of the argument, as they don't matter anyways, here is my main point (and do remember, it is my opinion, and why i would choose one or the other giving you little right to dictate it in the first place):

If i were born in the Uchiha clan, would i be powerful. How would my life be? If i were born in the Byakugen clan how powerful would i be also, how would my life be? Some enjoy what they can do for you or coolness factor, but what i would enjoy from either is being the most powerful ninja i could be. This is what i was looking at to see which i would rather have.

Now if i were an uchiha, i wouldn't have my sharingan probably till early/mid teens. Untill then i would be an ordinary ninja. If i were in Hyuuga, as soon as i could train as a ninja, i would be training jyuuken of course. This would be nice, as this would make you more powerful early on.

So you could say early mid-teens byakugen/jyuuken would help me more. However once the sharingan has been developed, and jutsus become copied, and more abilities with it are developed (3 dot, MS) it inevitably seems to be more powerful, overpowered imo.

This is what i look at when i decide which doujutsu i would enjoy having. It is also why i would choose Sharingan. It may take a bit to get it up and useable, but in the end becomes a powerhouse.

I wasn't trying to have them VS eachother, but rather speculate on the positive aspects of both as i grew older.

Lastly you are stating that my opinion can't be if i were born into the clan, but rather if i could have it now. I find this a bit retarded, as i would rather imagine being a ninja from birth. If it was stated directly that i had to do this, please quote it, because i cant believe this was specifically stated.

I think in reality, they avoid people arguing which one isbetter, and instead state which you would choose and why. It makes sense at earlier ages byakugen would be better, and imo sharingan gets better over time. But again, im not arguing that sharingan or byakugen is better overall.

-----

If you want to argue that at earlier ages byakugen is weaker than Sharingan, i can debate that since based on facts it seems otherwise. But as i stated, not long (maybe a year+ depending on the individual) Sharingan evens out with it, then surpasses its usefulness in most situations (imo). But i definitely wont go into a debate about sharingan VS Byakugen overall because that is what this topic is trying to avoid.

Rurik

2006-11-13, 14:15

IAs for Neji/Sasuke/Itatchi, i ask anyone reading this to stand up with me if they also believe that Itatchi is on a level of genious beyond both Sasuke and Neji. Im positive most people will disagree with you. It is unfair to compare Neji to Itatchi because Neji is the only genious of he Hyuuga family.

Well, if anyone here think that Itahci genius is way above Neeji, I disagree with them, Itachi is stronger than Neeji, but what Neeji has accomplished, has no quarrel

While Itachi jump Ranked at very early age, Neeji was Inventing Secret Jutsus that were not supposed to be done by people like him, You are not giving to much credit to Neeji.

Yes comparing Neeji and Itahci is an Unfair comparison, reason why I used then in the first place, Because You use Sasuke, And Sasuke is (or was) not even Close to the league of genius as Neeji is, and this was pretty much implied when Kakshi saw with Amaze the degree of Genius Neeji has.

Second, Neji is better than sasuke as i stated not because he is more of a genious, but because he is a year older than sasuke and had completed b ranks, even a rank missions at that point? He had a lot of experience at that point, Sasuke does not. Now if Sasuke were a year older than Neji, it would be the opposite.

Age does not has nothing to do with that, Neeji was better genius than Sasuke because he is a better genius that Sasuke plain an Simple. Kakashi was not Making his comparison because Neeji was an Year older than Sasuke, is that what Neeji showed in the fight vs Hinata was insane, and that was not even the tip of his real genius.

I guess Lee is a better genious than Sasuke too because he easily defeated Sasuke. If i had a year ahead of you to learn something, i would be better than you, would i not? So yes, he was better than Sasuke as the manga stated.

Don’t try to twist things here, your comparison fail badly, Lee defeating Sasuke had nothing to do with experience or any of the like is what teat Lee was that good compared to Sasuke, don’t you remember what it was said: “He is better than you because he trained more than you” Neeji situation is totally different.

Third, neji lost chuunin fair and square, don't make up excuses for him. He was not mature enough to be one, he let his idiotic notions hold back his abilities, which in the end proved he was not ready to be a chuunin. There is no ifs ands or buts about it. Shika and possibly Shino seemed to be the only ones worthy, and mature enough to handle leadership without letting foolish emotions get in the way *COUGH*NEJI*COUGH*.

I’m not making up excuses here, you seem to be lost here, as Neeji was not selected because of how the battle underwent, however, as I told you, he showed he had the Chunin rank maturity, as in the Sasuke rescue Arc, only Shiakamaru Showed a level of Matturity better or equal to Neeji, SO no is not an excuse what I said, is a fact.

Itachi was Jumping ranks quite easily, and gaining a Sanin level status because he killed his best friend and not because he was a genius so good he reach that a that age. However Neeji At an earlier age w as doing something that practically No other Huyga, and probaly almost nobody could had done.AS just like Itahci was doing things that seen in the genius perspective were above average, Neeji accomplishment were as good as Itahic, …and In my eyes, Neeji’s accomplishment are better than Itachi’s. Neeji did the Impossible.

And that Neeji did not reach Chuni Rank at that moment?

Ohhh well, too bad, because 3 Years later, He is the only Konoha Genin form that Class that is now A Jounnin, I wonder why Shika or the others are not A Jounnins

About the haku battle, he was never fighting to kill, and i admitted the sharingan dodging ability helps, but imo not as much as gentle fist, in a general situation. So please don't go inserting byakugen in this situation, etc.

What are you talking about?, I used Haku example because you still don’t believe the level of power a Sharingan can give an advantage so big that it can pratically make you defeat an opponent who was way faster than you.

And it does not matter that Haku was not fighting to kill, it still a fact that once Sasuke begun to awaken the Sharingan, Haku speed and Jutsu were rendered Useless.

-------------------------
If i were born in the Uchiha clan, would i be powerful. How would my life be? If i were born in the Byakugen clan how powerful would i be also, how would my life be? Some enjoy what they can do for you or coolness factor, but what i would enjoy from either is being the most powerful ninja i could be. This is what i was looking at to see which i would rather have.

Now if i were an uchiha, i wouldn't have my sharingan probably till early/mid teens. Untill then i would be an ordinary ninja. If i were in Hyuuga, as soon as i could train as a ninja, i would be training jyuuken of course. This would be nice, as this would make you more powerful early on.

So you could say early mid-teens byakugen/jyuuken would help me more. However once the sharingan has been developed, and jutsus become copied, and more abilities with it are developed (3 dot, MS) it inevitably seems to be more powerful, overpowered imo.

False, Because even Developing Jyuken, that will not mean you will be better or more powerful or help more than if you were an Uchiha.

In fact there is a much higher possibly that you end up as an Average shinoby with cool vision been a Hyuga, whereas been an Uchihia there is a very High possibility that even without gaining eh Sharingan, you will be an above average Shinoby.

I wasn't trying to have them VS eachother, but rather speculate on the positive aspects of both as i grew older.

And you are not Choosing the Doojuts because the Doojutsu itself, but because the added value the clan can give to the Bloodline. Which is not the point of the thread.

Lastly you are stating that my opinion can't be if i were born into the clan, but rather if i could have it now. I find this a bit retarded, as i would rather imagine being a ninja from birth. If it was stated directly that i had to do this, please quote it, because i cant believe this was specifically stated.

Firs post:

So wut would u rather have and why? Byukugan or Sharingan? I would rather have byukugan cuz u get a 360 degree view and it looks pretty darn cool. sharingan looks cool too but i think byukugan is more usefull.

The reason why this thread have survive for so long is that everybody understand it was just picking the Doujtus you like the most and why, and that Abilities that are not from the Doojutsu were not even considered.

You can choose to be born as a Ninja with the Dojutsu, but using the Jyuken excuse is not part of the point, as this is not retarded, is just different of what you want, and I could guess it could be something like this:

What Clan you would had wanted to be born in? that’s fist way better what you have been debating about.

-----

If you want to argue that at earlier ages byakugen is weaker than Sharingan, i can debate that. But as I stated, not long (maybe a year+ depending on the individual) Sharingan evens out with it, then surpasses its usefulness in most situations.

That observation is kind of odd, given Sharingan and Byakugan are tools and they will only bee as powerful depending on the person using it. you can decided what you think which is best partying fro he abilities they have, what are those?

Byakugan:

360 Visions
Ability to see far away
Ben able to see Chakra path way
Se Chakra Flow
Some cases been able to see Tenketsu
X-Ray vision

Sharingan:
Copy Nin Gen and Tai
See the Chakra Flow
Copy the mind
Hypnotizing abilities
Predict the opponent movement and counter accordingly.

Anything else should not be part of the debate.

Dauthi

2006-11-13, 14:33

Well, if anyone here think that Itahci genius is way above Neeji, I disagree with them, Itachi is stronger than Neeji, but what Neeji has accomplished, has no quarrel

While Itachi jump Ranked at very early age, Neeji was Inventing Secret Jutsus that were not supposed to be done by people like him, You are not giving to much credit to Neeji.

Yes comparing Neeji and Itahci is an Unfair comparison, reason why I used then in the first place, Because You use Sasuke, And Sasuke is (or was) not even Close to the league of genius as Neeji is, and this was pretty much implied when Kakshi saw with Amaze the degree of Genius Neeji has.

Age does not has nothing to do with that, Neeji was better genius than Sasuke because he is a better genius that Sasuke plain an Simple. Kakashi was not Making his comparison because Neeji was an Year older than Sasuke, is that what Neeji showed in the fight vs Hinata was insane, and that was not even the tip of his real genius.

Don’t try to twist things here, your comparison fail badly, Lee defeating Sasuke had nothing to do with experience or any of the like is what teat Lee was that good compared to Sasuke, don’t you remember what it was said: “He is better than you because he trained more than you” Neeji situation is totally different.

I’m not making up excuses here, you seem to be lost here, as Neeji was not selected because of how the battle underwent, however, as I told you, he showed he had the Chunin rank maturity, as in the Sasuke rescue Arc, only Shiakamaru Showed a level of Matturity better or equal to Neeji, SO no is not an excuse what I said, is a fact.

Itachi was Jumping ranks quite easily, and gaining a Sanin level status because he killed his best friend and not because he was a genius so good he reach that a that age. However Neeji At an earlier age w as doing something that practically No other Huyga, and probaly almost nobody could had done.AS just like Itahci was doing things that seen in the genius perspective were above average, Neeji accomplishment were as good as Itahic, …and In my eyes, Neeji’s accomplishment are better than Itachi’s. Neeji did the Impossible.

And that Neeji did not reach Chuni Rank at that moment?

Ohhh well, too bad, because 3 Years later, He is the only Konoha Genin form that Class that is now A Jounnin, I wonder why Shika or the others are not A Jounnins

What are you talking about?, I used Haku example because you still don’t believe the level of power a Sharingan can give an advantage so big that it can pratically make you defeat an opponent who was way faster than you.

And it does not matter that Haku was not fighting to kill, it still a fact that once Sasuke begun to awaken the Sharingan, Haku speed and Jutsu were rendered Useless.

-------------------------

False, Because even Developing Jyuken, that will not mean you will be better or more powerful or help more than if you were an Uchiha.

In fact there is a much higher possibly that you end up as an Average shinoby with cool vision been a Hyuga, whereas been an Uchihia there is a very High possibility that even without gaining eh Sharingan, you will be an above average Shinoby.

And you are not Choosing the Doojuts because the Doojutsu itself, but because the added value the clan can give to the Bloodline. Which is not the point of the thread.

Firs post:

The reason why this thread have survive for so long is that everybody understand it was just picking the Doujtus you like the most and why, and that Abilities that are not from the Doojutsu were not even considered.

You can choose to be born as a Ninja with the Dojutsu, but using the Jyuken excuse is not part of the point, as this is not retarded, is just different of what you want, and I could guess it could be something like this:

What Clan you would had wanted to be born in? that’s fist way better what you have been debating about.

-----

That observation is kind of odd, given Sharingan and Byakugan are tools and they will only bee as powerful depending on the person using it. you can decided what you think which is best partying fro he abilities they have, what are those?

Byakugan:

360 Visions
Ability to see far away
Ben able to see Chakra path way
Se Chakra Flow
Some cases been able to see Tenketsu
X-Ray vision

Sharingan:
Copy Nin Gen and Tai
See the Chakra Flow
Copy the mind
Hypnotizing abilities
Predict the opponent movement and counter accordingly.

Anything else should not be part of the debate.

Heh, picking apart this argument will be fun:

First off, no Neji didn't invent anything. He taught himself existing jutsu that he knew of (for sure) or possibly had seen his uncle/others perform. If he had invented it, would he be calling it kaiten out of coincidence? No, the logical conclusion is he knew of it, trained it by himself. This still has merit, but is still below creating a jutsu from scratch.

The lee comparison is fine. Lee had an extra year of "super lee training" as ill call it. Without that perhaps he wouldn't be nearly as fast or strong. Without the extra speed he couldn't bypass sharingan.

It is especially funny how you mention he has maturity during the rescue Sasuke arc. This of course is after his prejudice that stopped him from advancing is gone. Well duh he is much more of a leader now that Naruto nocked some sense into him, and his uncle apologized to him. Still, something shouldn't get him so emotionally worked up to the point of blinding him from his task. That is not an attribute of a leader.

Also, you have no idea how Itatchi obtained the MS other than he hinted you first must kill your best friend. MS itself is still shrouded in mystery, so please lets not bring it into the argument as it holds little factual information.

It is unknown what qualifies a juunin,. I (and most) assume it is how strong you are, which of course Neji would qualify for, and shika would not. Again, little is known about how to become a juunin so you cannot give him points for that. Kakashi was a juunin at that point was he not? He is not itatchi's level.

So wut would u rather have and why? Byukugan or Sharingan?

Thank you, that further proves my point. I stated which, and why. Please stop being a forum nazi, and accept my opinion/choice for what it is =).

Rurik

2006-11-13, 15:13

First off, no Neji didn't invent anything. He taught himself existing jutsu that he knew of (for sure) or possibly had seen his uncle/others perform. If he had invented it, would he be calling it kaiten out of coincidence? No, the logical conclusion is he knew of it, trained it by himself. This still has merit, but is still below creating a jutsu from scratch.

Neeji Invented the Jutsu by Himself, he did not saw anyone doing it because it’s a secret Jutsu that only is passed down to the next Huyga Main Family successor, So, practically Neeji took the names (I do know that he must had heard the Names of them) and he, as stated, came on his own with this 2 Jutsu, as something that was said to be impossible.

When you recreate something that you don’t practically know about, is like inventing it. reason why I said he invented them, He took it from 0, and develop it on his own. So yeah,mm He practically created a Jutsu from Scratch. As in fact it was stated in the Manga:

Hiashi: …回天は　日向宗家　…つまり　日向の跡目　だけに代々口伝される　秘術だ…
The Kaiten is the Hyuuga main family... meaning, it's a secret justu passed down orally to only the next Hyuuga successor.
…それを　独自で創り上げたと　いうのか…　…なんという奴だ　…まさかここまで…
...He created that by himself... ...What a guy... I never imaged it was to this extent...

The lee comparison is fine. Lee had an extra year of "super lee training" as ill call it. Without that perhaps he wouldn't be nearly as fast or strong. Without the extra speed he couldn't bypass sharingan.

One year of experience is not the difference here, is a entire life time of Training, Lee did not gain that speed because he Begun the year he graduated to this point.

And even like that your point does not touch base to what we are talking about and that’s Neeji been a btter genius than Sasuke, not because he was 1 year more experinced than Sasuke, but because He was born a better genius, been a better gneius ios not a matter of experince is a matter of Been born like that.

It is especially funny how you mention he has maturity during the rescue Sasuke arc. This of course is after his prejudice that stopped him from advancing is gone. Well duh he is much more of a leader now that Naruto nocked some sense into him, and his uncle apologized to him. Still, something shouldn't get him so emotionally worked up to the point of blinding him from his task. That is not an attribute of a leader.

Neeji only acted like that against Naruto and Hinata given they touch something he hold a grudge towards to and that was the Issue with his father as before that, Neeji in the Chuin test showed a good sense of Leadership and team work, So, No this traits you saw in the Rescue Sasuke arc were not awaken when He learned about Faith, and the what really happened with his father, he just became more amicably with others.

Also, you have no idea how Itatchi obtained the MS other than he hinted you first must kill your best friend. MS itself is still shrouded in mystery, so please lets not bring it into the argument as it holds little factual information.

This is Denial: First Itachi has the MS the day After he killed Shisui, after that he say that he gained the MS by Killing Shisui, So, no, We do Know how Itahci gained the MS, anything else is just trying to invent thing for personla pleasure.

Really, What More information you want? Ohh, I see you need a panel Showing Itahci Killing Shisui, while Shisui is Holding both The ID card and Konoha Driver License, while in the process There is A disclaimer that say “The MS has been gained by Itahci”

Get serious, is like saying it is not a fact that Yonadime sealed Kyuby in Naruto, because the I fel that this is shouded inm istrey overlloking that it was mentioned like 3000 times it was him.

It is unknown what qualifies a juunin,. I (and most) assume it is how strong you are, which of course Neji would qualify for, and shika would not. Again, little is known about how to become a juunin so you cannot give him points for that. Kakashi was a juunin at that point was he not? He is not itatchi's level.

What are you talking about? I showed you that in 3 years he did not only was given the Chuni title, but he also was promoted to Junnin, and yeah, strength could be part of how to became a Jounin, but I highly doubt you only need strength to become a Jounnin.

And try to twist things, Level and rank are tow totally different things, and you are talking about Ranks, not levels, SO your Kakshi and Itachi point is moot

Thank you, that further proves my point. I stated which, and why. And now you are contradicting yourself here, The point of the thread is totally different on what you are debating as of know, you are a talking about thee Clan you like the most, you are not talking too much about the Douujtsu abilities.

Have you ever said, I like Byakugan better because it gives you a lot of differnet vision perspective? Or Have you been saying Byukugan is better that the Shairngan because of the Jyuken (or soemhting along those lines)?

Please stop being a forum nazi, and accept my opinion/choice for what it is =).

You know something? after this commentary I will stop replying to you, I tried to be respectful towards your person I Avoided flaming and name calling, but it seems, people really don’t care much about respect this days and more when someone is trying to tell you why you are mistakenly posting things that are practically off-topic or Besides the point.

Dauthi

2006-11-13, 15:42

Neeji Invented the Jutsu by Himself, he did not saw anyone doing it because it’s a secret Jutsu that only is passed down to the next Huyga Main Family successor, So, practically Neeji took the names (I do know that he must had heard the Names of them) and he, as stated, came on his own with this 2 Jutsu, as something that was said to be impossible.

When you recreate something that you don’t practically know about, is like inventing it. reason why I said he invented them, He took it from 0, and develop it on his own. So yeah,mm He practically created a Jutsu from Scratch. As in fact it was stated in the Manga:

Hiashi: …回天は　日向宗家　…つまり　日向の跡目　だけに代々口伝される　秘術だ…
The Kaiten is the Hyuuga main family... meaning, it's a secret justu passed down orally to only the next Hyuuga successor.
…それを　独自で創り上げたと　いうのか…　…なんという奴だ　…まさかここまで…
...He created that by himself... ...What a guy... I never imaged it was to this extent...

And they were awed by things Sasuke did as well. Matching Lee's speed, copying his jutsu's, learning/using chidori. What a guy he is too, i still say equal to Neji, just not as experienced.

Your debate failed when you could not give me a reason why he would name it Kaiten coincidentally. This proves he did not invent nor create it. He trained himself. All you proved is that if it is passed down to you, you are told how to do kaiten and are trained, compared to neji teaching himself from what he knew about it/saw. Regardless, yes it is amazing he did this, i am not discrediting him. If Naruto learned rasengan without help from Jiraiya, i would also be impressed, but i certainly wouldn't say he created it.

One year of experience is not the difference here, is a entire life time of Training, Lee did not gain that speed because he Begun the year he graduated to this point.

And even like that your point does not touch base to what we are talking about and that’s Neeji been a btter genius than Sasuke, not because he was 1 year more experinced than Sasuke, but because He was born a better genius, been a better gneius ios not a matter of experince is a matter of Been born like that.

And yet without that year of super-training Lee may have lost to sasuke right? That is my point, no clue what you are getting at.

Again ill point out the connection i am trying to make between the lee/saskuke fight since you missed it: one year of training does make the difference. That is why a simple 3 years we see a huge change in all the younger characters.

In Lee's case that is a lot of training!!!! Since he is constantly training himself.

Neeji only acted like that against Naruto and Hinata given they touch something he hold a grudge towards to and that was the Issue with his father as before that, Neeji in the Chuin test showed a good sense of Leadership and team work, So, No this traits you saw in the Rescue Sasuke arc were not awaken when He learned about Faith, and the what really happened with his father, he just became more amicably with others.

Again, you try to make excuses for him. A LEADER CANNOT AFFORD TO LET HIS EMOTIONS CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF A MISSION. He did this, it doesnt matter why. Perhaps he would be on a mission to do something else that could affect him emotionally, in which case he can't be leader or else he could fould up the mission.

I will agree the leadership ability was there however, but first he had to wake up and get over himself and his grudges. This had to be done through experience (maturity). He rid himself of it much earlier than he would have without Naruto's help though, thats for sure. He is a much different Neji after that encounter, but he was awfully heated about the whole situation at that time, so perhaps he needs just a little time before he became chuunin after that.

This is Denial: First Itachi has the MS the day After he killed Shisui, after that he say that he gained the MS by Killing Shisui, So, no, We do Know how Itahci gained the MS, anything else is just trying to invent thing for personla pleasure.

Really, What More information you want? Ohh, I see you need a panel Showing Itahci Killing Shisui, while Shisui is Holding both The ID card and Konoha Driver License, while in the process There is A disclaimer that say “The MS has been gained by Itahci”

Alright smart guy :

Explain why Kakshi has MS though he did not kill his friends over the time skip. If Kakshi can use MS and not kill anyone, was Itatchi lying to him simply to make Sasuke evil like himself? How can one train new facets of MS? Why was it recently implied that Itatchi's MS is weaker now? Does it degrade after time?

All these questions are not full answered. We do not know fully the aspects of MS.

What are you talking about? I showed you that in 3 years he did not only was given the Chuni title, but he also was promoted to Junnin, and yeah, strength could be part of how to became a Jounin, but I highly doubt you only need strength to become a Jounnin.

And try to twist things, Level and rank are tow totally different things, and you are talking about Ranks, not levels, SO your Kakshi and Itachi point is moot

Again, let me point out the connection since you are not getting it. Kakashi possibly beat Neji in becoming a Juunin. We can't say for sure since we have no exact clue when Neji became a Juunin in the 3 years. Kakashi is nowhere near Itatchi's level of genious, and yet was able to complete juunin in the same time as Neji. So this point does not prove you saying Neji is Itatchi's equal as genious'.

You are the one who brought up Neji being a juunin as a point of him being as much of a genious as Itatchi, not I. Now you are trying to back down from it.

Neji being a juunin now does not prove he is Itatchi's equal genious-wise.

And now you are contradicting yourself here, The point of the thread is totally different on what you are debating as of know, you are a talking about thee Clan you like the most, you are not talking too much about the Douujtsu abilities.

Have you ever said, I like Byakugan better because it gives you a lot of differnet vision perspective? Or Have you been saying Byukugan is better that the Shairngan because of the Jyuken (or soemhting along those lines)?

You know something? after this commentary I will stop replying to you, I tried to be respectful towards your person I Avoided flaming and name calling, but it seems, people really don’t care much about respect this days and more when someone is trying to tell you why you are mistakenly posting things that are practically off-topic or Besides the point.

I basically stated I would want pure power, so i would choose Sharingan, and i stated why. You jumped in and started this argument when i had made a simple statement/opinion based on if i were born as either one which the thread does not dictate.

I use the term forum-nazi humorously of course (thus the smiley face at the end), no malice intended. Me and my friends use it for random terms, like "stop being a couch nazi" if we are hogging it etc.

Rurik

2006-11-13, 16:49

You are making up things here about me, And I cant let this pass:

And they were awed by things Sasuke did as well. Matching Lee's speed, copying his jutsu's, learning/using chidori. What a guy he is too, i still say equal to Neji, just not as experienced.

Everything Sasuke did was Based on a Training that was supervised by Kakashi, however Mejia was done by Himself, with no teacher, partying from cero Creating Jutsu that are impossible for most Huyga to even learn.

Yes Sasuke is a genius for what he could accomplish in one month, but that accomplishment pale with what Neeji did.

Your debate failed when you could not give me a reason why he would name it Kaiten coincidentally. This proves he did not invent nor create it. He trained himself. All you proved is that if it is passed down to you, you are told how to do kaiten and are trained, compared to neji teaching himself from what he knew about it/saw. Regardless, yes it is amazing he did this, i am not discrediting him. If Naruto learned rasengan without help from Jiraiya, i would also be impressed, but i certainly wouldn't say he created it.

LOL, Sasuke knew the MS existed, however did Sasuke knew how it was acquired? NO

Knowing the Name does not means he saw it, He just heard about it, I showed you Manga Facts which state that Neeji could had not seen the Kaiten or the Hake 64 strikes.

Oyu don’t even Understand the concept of secret, The Jutsu is secret hence Neeji could had not saw this Jutsu before, and why, Because the Main Family people don’t go out to Missions or do things, this Jutsu are Kept secret from People like Neeji, thus They aren’t Shown to people like Neeji.

Let me once again Use the Manga Fact that you seem to avoid:

Hiashi: …回天は　日向宗家　…つまり　日向の跡目　だけに代々口伝される　秘術だ…
The Kaiten is the Hyuuga main family... meaning, it's a secret justu passed down orally to only the next Hyuuga successor.
…それを　独自で創り上げたと　いうのか…　…なんという奴だ　…まさかここまで…
...He created that by himself... ...What a guy... I never imaged it was to this extent...

Given you are good at evading points in the Manga let me break it up for you:

A) This is a Jutsu pass only to the Successor of the Huyga Clan,

B) HE created the Jutsu By Himself.

Do you want me to Tell you what creating a Jutsu means?
Bottom line is that Neeji took the Jutsu from 0, just name, and based on his Exceding genius he develop by Himself the Jutsu. That’s the fact.

Now because you are right and I’m wrong and consecuently the Manga facts, could you show me where it was stated that Neeji saw Kaiten and 64 strikes and that’s how he cold develop it????

And yet without that year of super-training Lee may have lost to sasuke right? That is my point, no clue what you are getting at.

You don’t know that, and the Lee is still besides the point we are talking about Geniuses, not Power or strenght.

Again ill point out the connection i am trying to make since you missed it: ONE YEAR OF TRAINING/EXPERIENCE MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE. That is why a simple 3 years we see a huge change in all the younger characters.

Experience make the difference to make you Stronger or better, However the observation on Neeji was based on His Genius of what he accomplished, not because he had more experience.

Again, you try to make excuses for him. A LEADER CANNOT AFFORD TO LET HIS EMOTIONS CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF A MISSION. He did this, it doesnt matter why. Perhaps he would be on a mission to do something else that could affect him emotionally, in which case he can't be leader or else he could fould up the mission.

And you are avoiding my psot which quiote frankly is just getting Funny, I showed You how Neeji had what it takes, that he was not selected in that moment was too Bad, You talk about that he could not afford to let emotions Change the Outcome of A mission, now, Have you seen Neeji emotions letting him Change the outcome of a mission? Yes or No?

Bottom line is that is afact that Neeji has what I takes to become a Chunin at the oment he was not selcted, anything else is oyur weird idea of trying to debate that.

Alright smart guy :

Explain why Kakshi has MS though he did not kill his friends over the time skip. If Kakshi can use MS and not kill anyone, was Itatchi lying to him simply to make Sasuke evil like himself? How can one train new facets of MS? Why was it recently implied that Itatchi's MS is weaker now? Does it degrade after time?

All these questions are not full answered. We do not know fully the aspects of MS.

You are more lost than I tough:

I already told you about Kakashi MS, there are many reason why he could have it the most probable reason could be that He Copy it from Itachi. It could even be tied to Obitos death. That Itahic knows one way of Gaining the MS, whereas Kakshi has another own, does not means that What Itahic stated is False

And then When Itahci discovers that Kakashi gained the MS, he was surprised about it.

And then Where was it stated that someone can train new Facets of the MS

And It was never implied that Itachi MS is weaker, It was stated that Itahci eyesight might not be as good as before, nothing about the MS

And NONE of this question regardless of the answer, takes away the Fact that it was stated that Itachi gained the MS by Killing Shisui, that’s the fact. So or you either start pulling a fact from the Manga that contradicts how it was said that Itachi gained the MS (Not other people) or you can just accept it as the fact we know.

Again, let me point out the connection since you are not getting it. Kakashi possibly beat Neji in becoming a Juunin. We can't say for sure since we have no exact clue when Neji became a Juunin in the 3 years. Kakashi is nowhere near Itatchi's level of genious, and yet was able to complete juunin in the same time as Neji. So this point does not prove you saying Neji is Itatchi's equal as genious'.

Kakashi Became Jounin as such a Young Age because he is a genius and a part of that when he was promoted it was time of war and promotions were done much quicker than in actual timeline, BTW, the Chunin exam did not existed by that era

You are the one who brought up Neji being a juunin as a point of him being as much of a genious as Itatchi, not I. Now you are trying to back down from it.

Neji being a juunin now does not prove he is Itatchi's equal genious-wise.

Lets requote You and me to see how you are practically accusing me of your own doings:

This is my Original point, Nothing about Neeji and Reaching Chunin Rank:
----
Just as Neeji is not on the Level of Itachi, Sasuke was not on the Level of Neeji, they were only compared by Ten Ten because both were the top rookies in their respective Graduation Year, thats all, for heavens sake, Sasuke could not even Defeat Lee when Lee was not close to Neeji. and is fact goes it was stated that Sasuke was not on Neeji level.

Your Response:

No, there is a huge gap with neji/itatchi. Both Sasuke and Neji couldnt attain chuunin, and Itatchi is easily around Sannin level.

The first persont hat beggins to make comparison about not gainin Chuni Rank and Been on Itahic level is YOU

My Reply:

And Neeji could not attain Chunin because he was fihgting with his heart instead of his brain. Neeji proved that in other conditions of fighting he would had gain chunin Status.

Nothing about Levels or Geniuses, just correcting you about why Neeji oculd not reach Chunin.

Your response:

Third, neji lost chuunin fair and square, don't make up excuses for him. He was not mature enough to be one.

Here you begin to try and take away the fact that Neeji does have the Chunin material, as my response told you that:

And that Neeji did not reach Chuni Rank at that moment?

Ohhh well, too bad, because 3 Years later, He is the only Konoha Genin form that Class that is now A Jounnin, I wonder why Shika or the others are not A Jounnins

So, please Tell me, who was the one that begun to say that Neeji reaching a certain Rank was to make a point about he been in Itahcis level?, Showed any of My post were Im using Neeji reaching Jounin as to say he is a better genius than Itahic, Let me requote Why I tough Neeji was better Genius than Itachi:

Itachi was Jumping ranks quite easily, and gaining a Sanin level status because he killed his best friend and not because he was a genius so good he reach that a that age. However Neeji At an earlier age w as doing something that practically No other Huyga, and probaly almost nobody could had done.AS just like Itahci was doing things that seen in the genius perspective were above average, Neeji accomplishment were as good as Itahic, …and In my eyes, Neeji’s accomplishment are better than Itachi’s. Neeji did the Impossible.

I’m talking very clear here and saying that Neeji accomplishment that no other Huga could do, was the reason I saw it as a better genius than Itahic, when Itahic became Sanin level after gaining the MS, which we know was because he Killed his Best friend, and to because His genius.

-----
I basically stated I would want pure power, so i would choose Sharingan. You jumped in and started this argument when i had made a simple statement/opinion based on if i were born as either one which the thread does not dictate.

Yeah, lets see what You posted:

As for skill levels, i could have sworn there are genious' in both sharingan clans and byakugen. For instance, some sharingan users may not ever get a 3 dotted sharingan, and some byakugen users may not see past say 200 degrees.

So I corrected you with the fact:

Nope, The Uchiha Clan was a Clan Of Geniuses, the Hyuga Clan is not known to be like that, however they do have geniuses, (Neeji is an example). and genius are not abaout the power of the Bloddline, is about how good this person could be Naturallly.

And Look at the difference:

Hinata having Years using the Byakugan and still was a drop out Shinoby, Obito passed from been a so-so Ninja, and in the moment she gained the Sharingan his level Changed considerable

Your response that really triggered my replies what your misconception, this one:

Anyways, my case in point is comparing a newly awakened Sharingan, which from what we have seen gives slightly better dodging abilities. Compared to an average byakugen user of the same age, i think the advantage in situations goes to byakugen.

Yeah you begun saying how the Advantage goes to the Byujugan because of the age, I said this:

That’s depends on the Use, Byakugan without Jyuken does not had any type of combat purpose, is just for Information gathering purpose.

If you are going to compare then to Recon type of mission, then The Advantage goes to the Byakugan, if you go to a Combat Type of situation, Sharingan has the advantage.

See how I separated the Jyuken from the Byakugan, because Im aware of what this Thread is about? After that you begun to make situation about a train Huyga and a Uchiha at the same age. And the rest is history.

So Show me, where did I Jump to reply to oyu about Been born with the Doojutsu, my corrections to you was because you were making a Uchiha and Bykugan comparison, and this is not what this thread is about.

This only reminds me on your debate with Hunter as Hunter was very clear at what he said, but you try to twist his observation and didn’t accept that it was just your fault of not reading well. One thing is that you make a istake, buit another thing is trying to accuse other of the mistake made by you. I even thinking that you are not even reading my post

Suna no tate

2006-11-13, 19:45

Here's one. Sharigan can't copy techniques that don't use hand seals. Techniques that don't use hand seals manipulate chakra directly. Sharingan can't see how that chakra is being manipulated. Byakugan in theory can and so in theory can copy non hand seal techniques just by looking at them. A user can look at the rasengan being formed, see how the chakra is being made to spin and spiral, and should be able to learn how to do it on their own (later on, after a few tries). In theory, a wind natured byakugan user can look at temari use her wind fan, see how she's directly manipulating chakra, and then copy it (probably later on after a few tries) . A sharingan user however wouldn't be able to since no seal is being used. Seals are used to form and manipulate chakra.

inferno_grl

2006-11-13, 21:04

Dauthi

2006-11-13, 22:30

You are making up things here about me, And I cant let this pass:

Everything Sasuke did was Based on a Training that was supervised by Kakashi, however Mejia was done by Himself, with no teacher, partying from cero Creating Jutsu that are impossible for most Huyga to even learn.

Yes Sasuke is a genius for what he could accomplish in one month, but that accomplishment pale with what Neeji did.

LOL, Sasuke knew the MS existed, however did Sasuke knew how it was acquired? NO

Knowing the Name does not means he saw it, He just heard about it, I showed you Manga Facts which state that Neeji could had not seen the Kaiten or the Hake 64 strikes.

Oyu don’t even Understand the concept of secret, The Jutsu is secret hence Neeji could had not saw this Jutsu before, and why, Because the Main Family people don’t go out to Missions or do things, this Jutsu are Kept secret from People like Neeji, thus They aren’t Shown to people like Neeji.

Let me once again Use the Manga Fact that you seem to avoid:

Hiashi: …回天は　日向宗家　…つまり　日向の跡目　だけに代々口伝される　秘術だ…
The Kaiten is the Hyuuga main family... meaning, it's a secret justu passed down orally to only the next Hyuuga successor.
…それを　独自で創り上げたと　いうのか…　…なんという奴だ　…まさかここまで…
...He created that by himself... ...What a guy... I never imaged it was to this extent...

Given you are good at evading points in the Manga let me break it up for you:

A) This is a Jutsu pass only to the Successor of the Huyga Clan,

B) HE created the Jutsu By Himself.

Do you want me to Tell you what creating a Jutsu means?
Bottom line is that Neeji took the Jutsu from 0, just name, and based on his Exceding genius he develop by Himself the Jutsu. That’s the fact.

Now because you are right and I’m wrong and consecuently the Manga facts, could you show me where it was stated that Neeji saw Kaiten and 64 strikes and that’s how he cold develop it????

He knew what it was called and what it did. This is a logical fact, as he could not create a jutsu that he did not know what exactly it did, just its name. How can you perfectly pair a name/ability if you don't know what it does either? So he probably had a vague description of what it did like : "It uses chakra while spinning", its not like its a complicated technique to explain, just do. Again, i say it is amazing he did this, but he did not create or invent anything.

You don’t know that, and the Lee is still besides the point we are talking about Geniuses, not Power or strenght.

Experience make the difference to make you Stronger or better, However the observation on Neeji was based on His Genius of what he accomplished, not because he had more experience.

Again, i included lee to debate why time would give you an upperhand. Not that lee is a genious, but why Neji is stronger than sasuke, not more of a genious. Perhaps you forgot what this part of the argument was about.

Experience always makes for a better fighter, period.

And you are avoiding my psot which quiote frankly is just getting Funny, I showed You how Neeji had what it takes, that he was not selected in that moment was too Bad, You talk about that he could not afford to let emotions Change the Outcome of A mission, now, Have you seen Neeji emotions letting him Change the outcome of a mission? Yes or No?

Bottom line is that is afact that Neeji has what I takes to become a Chunin at the oment he was not selcted, anything else is oyur weird idea of trying to debate that.

And yet he wasn't selected. You say i try to contradict the manga, and yet you are doing it now. If he could get emotional from someone like Naruto, who is to say anyone can get him emotional, fudging up a mission?

You are more lost than I tough:

I already told you about Kakashi MS, there are many reason why he could have it the most probable reason could be that He Copy it from Itachi. It could even be tied to Obitos death. That Itahic knows one way of Gaining the MS, whereas Kakshi has another own, does not means that What Itahic stated is False

And then When Itahci discovers that Kakashi gained the MS, he was surprised about it.

And then Where was it stated that someone can train new Facets of the MS

And It was never implied that Itachi MS is weaker, It was stated that Itahci eyesight might not be as good as before, nothing about the MS

And NONE of this question regardless of the answer, takes away the Fact that it was stated that Itachi gained the MS by Killing Shisui, that’s the fact. So or you either start pulling a fact from the Manga that contradicts how it was said that Itachi gained the MS (Not other people) or you can just accept it as the fact we know.

So out of all of that the only definitive answer is "Itatchi said you have to kill your friend". Indeed, i guess we do know everything about MS, you kill your friend and thats all you need to know! I in fact already stated this is one of the few solid facts we actually know about MS.

Kakashi Became Jounin as such a Young Age because he is a genius and a part of that when he was promoted it was time of war and promotions were done much quicker than in actual timeline, BTW, the Chunin exam did not existed by that era

A genious who even invented chidori at a young age, and yet he is not on the same level as Neji (who is on the same level as itatchi according to you). Hmm.

Lets requote You and me to see how you are practically accusing me of your own doings:

This is my Original point, Nothing about Neeji and Reaching Chunin Rank:
----

Then you posted this :
Ohhh well, too bad, because 3 Years later, He is the only Konoha Genin form that Class that is now A Jounnin, I wonder why Shika or the others are not A Jounnins

Which brought on the discussion it doesn't matter if he is a juunin, remember? It doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt he is Itatchi's level.

The first persont hat beggins to make comparison about not gainin Chuni Rank and Been on Itahic level is YOU

I was mostly trying to compare that both Sasuke and Neji failed the test, proving they were on about the same level of mentality. Nobody seems to have gotten so much accomplished so young. That is my point. Not Kakashi, not Neji, not Sasuke, so you could not say Neji is Itatchi's level in those terms. He was very gifted, very young.

You try to point out then he is the only jounin, but Sasuke is no longer around to gain jounin rank, and he is whom we are comparing. How do you now Sasuke wouldnt have Jounin by now anyways? By the time itatchi was Neji's age as a jounin, he was already sannin level.

I believe that Neji is close to becoming a juunin after that test, and much closer after Naruto slaps sense into him. Like i had already admitted, by the time the next test came, he probably passed it (they dont come very often anyways).

But true, i did bring in rank, but your point i realize now proved nothing anyways, since sasuke can no longer attain rank.

Perhaps one of us should start a poll to see if everyone believes Neji is super genious like Itatchi, and above Sasuke? I would like to see the results.

I’m talking very clear here and saying that Neeji accomplishment that no other Huga could do, was the reason I saw it as a better genius than Itahic, when Itahic became Sanin level after gaining the MS, which we know was because he Killed his Best friend, and to because His genius.

Well that is certainly your opinion, again, to get to the bottom of this I will create a poll.
-----

See how I separated the Jyuken from the Byakugan, because Im aware of what this Thread is about? After that you begun to make situation about a train Huyga and a Uchiha at the same age. And the rest is history.

So Show me, where did I Jump to reply to oyu about Been born with the Doojutsu, my corrections to you was because you were making a Uchiha and Bykugan comparison, and this is not what this thread is about.

This only reminds me on your debate with Hunter as Hunter was very clear at what he said, but you try to twist his observation and didn’t accept that it was just your fault of not reading well. One thing is that you make a istake, buit another thing is trying to accuse other of the mistake made by you. I even thinking that you are not even reading my post

Indeed when i said "Anyways, my case in point is comparing a newly awakened Sharingan, which from what we have seen gives slightly better dodging abilities. Compared to an average byakugen user of the same age, i think the advantage in situations goes to byakugen."[/quote]

I was trying to switch to my main point which was my opinion about growing up as either of the clans.

You started by arguing that all Sharingan users are genoius, which i thought was rediculous so i argued that point. You insisted Neji is the same level as Itatchi, i also thought it was rediculous so i argued that as well.

These were all branches we argued, but my main point was always which would be better starting off, and which would end better. We continued to debate gentle fist to newly obtained sharingan dodging. Or at least that is what i was debating about.

I think you lost track of the different things we were talking about, but if you read all the way to my first posts, i am talking about my main topic... correct me if i am wrong.

Naruto's_girl

2006-11-13, 22:46

:innocent: The byakugan has many more advantages like 360 degree vision, seeing the chakra system, seeing far distances, and seeing through objects. The sharingan only has the ability to copy jutsu, hypnotize, and read thoughts if your at kakashi and Itachi's level.

Sabaku Kyu

2006-11-13, 22:47

As for Neji/Sasuke/Itatchi, i ask anyone reading this to agree or disagree with me if they think that Itatchi is on a level of genious beyond both Sasuke and Neji. Im positive most people will disagree with you. It is unfair to compare Neji to Itatchi simply because Neji is the only genious of he Hyuuga family. In all honesty, it seems downright rediculous.

I will vouch for Dauthi here. Itachi's merits far outweigh Neji's even though there is no doubt that Neji is an exceptional ninja. Rurik uses Neji's discovering Kaiten and Hakke 64 on his own as grounds for him being a super genius, but his situation is different from Sasuke and Itachi's. Neji knew that he'd need to be able to use Kaiten and Hakke techniques to be on par with the strongest of the Hyuuga, so naturally he would try everything in his power to learn them. Like Dauthi stated, he had to at least heard of these techniques and their basic descriptions because he calls them by their proper names. From there, he had groundwork to go on. Kaiten is an extension of Jyuuken so learning this technique wouldn't exactly be developing from scratch if one knows Jyuuken. Anyway, compare this situation to the Uchiha clan which has no known forbidden jutsu (except possibly MS, but that is a different story altogther b/c it can't just be learned; certain requirements have to be met before you can obtain it) there was no need for Itachi and Sasuke to develop techniques from scratch because no techniques were forbidden to them . But given a similar situation, where certain jutsu from their own clan were forbidden who's to say that Itachi and Sasuke couldn't learn jutsu from only minimal information like Neji?

Here's one. Sharigan can't copy techniques that don't use hand seals. Techniques that don't use hand seals manipulate chakra directly. Sharingan can't see how that chakra is being manipulated. Byakugan in theory can and so in theory can copy non hand seal techniques just by looking at them. A user can look at the rasengan being formed, see how the chakra is being made to spin and spiral, and should be able to learn how to do it on their own (later on, after a few tries). In theory, a wind natured byakugan user can look at temari use her wind fan, see how she's directly manipulating chakra, and then copy it (probably later on after a few tries) . A sharingan user however wouldn't be able to since no seal is being used. Seals are used to form and manipulate chakra.

Interesting and theoretically true I suppose. But keep in mind that Byakugan isn't gifted with "recording" ability like Sharingan is. The Byakugan user would have to be blessed with photographic memory in addition to the ability to see tenketsu in order to remember the details of performing a jutsu like Rasengan. Good point though.

Dauthi

2006-11-13, 22:49

[/QUOTE]

I will vouch for Dauthi here. Itachi's merits far outweigh Neji's even though there is no doubt that Neji is an exceptional ninja. Rurik uses Neji's discovering Kaiten and Hakke 64 on his own as grounds for him being a super genius, but his situation is different from Sasuke and Itachi's. Neji knew that he'd need to be able to use Kaiten and Hakke techniques to be on par with the strongest Hyuuga, so naturally he would try everything in his power to learn them. Like Dauthi stated, he had to at least heard of these techniques and their basic descriptions because he calls them by their proper names. From there, he had groundwork to go on. Kaiten is an extension of Jyuuken so learning this technique wouldn't exactly be developing from scratch if one knows Jyuuken. Anyway, compare this situation to the Uchiha clan which has no known forbidden jutsu (except possibly MS, but that is a different story altogther b/c it can't just be learned; certain requirements have to be met before you can obtain it) there was no need for Itachi and Sasuke to develop techniques from scratch because no techniques were forbidden to them . But given a similar situation, where certain jutsu from their own clan were forbidden who's to say that Itachi and Sasuke couldn't learn jutsu from only minimal information like Neji?

Ahhh logic ^^. Yeah, its a good point. As i stated, little is known to use yet about MS, if there are more techniques, if they were forbiddened, or if they had to be trained.

mid-nite

2006-11-14, 08:26

kakashi said that the sharingan derived from the byakugan some years ago. but as an instie..... the byakugan is more advanced than the sharingan.

Rurik

2006-11-14, 08:33

He knew what it was called and what it did. This is a logical fact, as he could not create a jutsu that he did not know what exactly it did, just its name. How can you perfectly pair a name/ability if you don't know what it does either? So he probably had a vague description of what it did like : "It uses chakra while spinning", its not like its a complicated technique to explain, just do. Again, i say it is amazing he did this, but he did not create or invent anything.

It seems you don’t get to well with facts, He did knew the names, so how cold he pair the names with the Jutsus????

How difficult could it be that after you doing a Jutsu that you spin yourself, its called Kaiten???

Kaiten is spinning in Japanese

How difficult it is to know your Jutsu is 64 strikes when you created a Jutsu that has, duh, 64 strikes?

Point here is that Neeji knew the existence of the Jutsu by Name, however that’s it, Naruto only neeeded to see Rasengan an with that he was practicality capable of doing on his own (Of course with a little help) So if the Kaiten, a Secret Jutsu used only by Hyugas that does not fight, is been shown like oyu say or the description is gave, Why then Hiahsi was so surprised and saying that this is a Jutsu that is only passed by the Huyga Main Family??? I mean he would had mentioned, He took the principle and did it.

NO he Said he Created that By Himself. The is no mistake in the fact trown around that indicate how Neeji practically invented by himself those 2 Jutsu.

Just like the MS is a forbiden Jutsu by the Uhcihas, the Kaiten and 64 strikest are Forbiden Jutsu of the Hyugas for the Branch Family, So people of the Branch Family have not taken a look or even description of teh Jutsu.

Again, i included lee to debate why time would give you an upperhand. Not that lee is a genious, but why Neji is stronger than sasuke, not more of a genious. Perhaps you forgot what this part of the argument was about.

Experience always makes for a better fighter, period.

When I talked about been Better than Neeji I was talking Genius wise, not experience wise.

And yet he wasn't selected. You say i try to contradict the manga, and yet you are doing it now. If he could get emotional from someone like Naruto, who is to say anyone can get him emotional, fudging up a mission?

And Shjino was not selected, So we have to say that Shino also did not deserved to become a Chunin or better put he did not had what It takes?

And Please Im not contradicting the Manga, Im going with Neeji description in the Databook that fits very well with a Chunin. That Neeji lost his cool with Naruto, does not indicate that he is not Chunin worthy.

So out of all of that the only definitive answer is "Itatchi said you have to kill your friend". Indeed, i guess we do know everything about MS, you kill your friend and thats all you need to know! I in fact already stated this is one of the few solid facts we actually know about MS.

Let me requote you:

Also, you have no idea how Itatchi obtained the MS other than he hinted you first must kill your best friend.

In other words, IM replying to you to your quote saying that there is no clue that on how Itachi gained the MS, and that Itachi could had been lying to Sasuke. Itahci did not say, You first must kill your best friend, He say You must Kill your best friend, there are no other ways in Itachis way.

I don’t care about the suppose mystery behind the MS, You replied to me because you try to talk yourself out of How Itahci gain the MS, and as it had said more than once, it was by Killing Shisui.

A genious who even invented chidori at a young age, and yet he is not on the same level as Neji (who is on the same level as itatchi according to you). Hmm.

Were did I say that Kakshi is not a better genius than Neeji?, in fact, I always considered Kakshi to be a Genius that exceed both Itachi and Neeji.

And please Don’t put word in my mouth, I never said Neeji is on the same Level as Itachi, I said that I considered Neeji to be a better genius than Itachi, Level and Genius are 2 different things.

Then you posted this :
Ohhh well, too bad, because 3 Years later, He is the only Konoha Genin form that Class that is now A Jounnin, I wonder why Shika or the others are not A Jounnins

Which brought on the discussion it doesn't matter if he is a juunin, remember? It doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt he is Itatchi's level.

Read my post then, I posted that in response to your quote about Neeji not been worthy of a Chunin Rank, nothing to do with Itachi level.

I was mostly trying to compare that both Sasuke and Neji failed the test, proving they were on about the same level of mentality. Nobody seems to have gotten so much accomplished so young. That is my point. Not Kakashi, not Neji, not Sasuke, so you could not say Neji is Itatchi's level in those terms. He was very gifted, very young.

However they mindset does not defines who is a greater genius, as That’s my whole point comparing Neeji to Sasuke, Sasuke is not a Genius like Neeji.

You try to point out then he is the only jounin, but Sasuke is no longer around to gain jounin rank, and he is whom we are comparing. How do you now Sasuke wouldnt have Jounin by now anyways? By the time itatchi was Neji's age as a jounin, he was already sannin level.

WHAT??? Are oyu even reading my post, seriously? Where did you get the idea that I was trying to compare Neeji to Sasuke based on he is a Jounin? I used Neeji as a Jounmnin to show you that he really got what it takes to get to Chunin and Beyond, as he was the only one who could reach Juonin at such a n earlier age, in fact, with current Situations, there is no other Jounin as Young as Neeji.

I believe that Neji is close to becoming a juunin after that test, and much closer after Naruto slaps sense into him. Like i had already admitted, by the time the next test came, he probably passed it (they dont come very often anyways).

I don’t think So, He was Chunin worthy, and would had he fought with anybody else, he would had gain the Rank.

But true, i did bring in rank, but your point i realize now proved nothing anyways, since sasuke can no longer attain rank.

Yeah, but his was not about Sasuke, this was about Itachi and Neeji, which you used Neeji not becoming a Chunin as way to prove that Itachi was better in sense than Neeji.

Perhaps one of us should start a poll to see if everyone believes Neji is super genious like Itatchi, and above Sasuke? I would like to see the results.

Even by the results, that does not matter, this kind of poll only reflect sympathy towards a Character, Creating a poll does not reflects fact, just the Count of people opinions.

Well that is certainly your opinion, again, to get to the bottom of this I will create a poll.

Errrm….I never stated that Neeji is a bettter genius than Itachi is a fact.

-----

Indeed when i said "Anyways, my case in point is comparing a newly awakened Sharingan, which from what we have seen gives slightly better dodging abilities. Compared to an average byakugen user of the same age, i think the advantage in situations goes to byakugen."

And I said that This is we talk about Jyuken, but if we talk about the Doujutsu then the Byakugan does not fair better than Sharingan in Battle situations.

That’s depends on the Use, Byakugan without Jyuken does not had any type of combat purpose, is just for Information gathering purpose.

If you are going to compare then to Recon type of mission, then The Advantage goes to the Byakugan, if you go to a Combat Type of situation, Sharingan has the advantage.

I was trying to switch to my main point which was my opinion about growing up as either of the clans.
Which I was counter arguing just saying this is not what the thread is about, because now you are talking about Uchihas and Hyugas, not the Doujutsu.

You started by arguing that all Sharingan users are genoius, which i thought was rediculous so i argued that point.

That point was not even directed at you, that point was to show in the sense of the Manga that the People that had Sharingan were genius (as a fact from both Databook and Manga) so they knew how to adjust a newly copy Jutsu, this observation was not even intended about the Doujutsu itself.

You insisted Neji is the same level as Itatchi, i also thought it was rediculous so i argued that as well.

I never said Neeji was on the Same level as Itachi, please quote me when I said that. I only Said he was on the same level or even a Better genius than Itachi.

These were all branches we argued, but my main point was always which would be better starting off, and which would end better. We continued to debate gentle fist to newly obtained sharingan dodging. Or at least that is what i was debating about.

And I knew you were debating about that, reason why always remind oyu and Tkdtigger this is about the Doujutsu, but quite frankly I will not debate about that, because that debate will be off topic, and not the intention of the thread.

I think you lost track of the different things we were talking about, but if you read all the way to my first posts, i am talking about my main topic... correct me if i am wrong.

I did not lost any track, reason why I had to repost again your post an Myne, I knew very well since the beginning what this debate was about and why it had so many changes, and mostly was you questioning things I used from the Manga.

So you can talk about your Point about Hyugas vs Uchihas, I just don’t agree this is what the thread is about.

Xrayz0r

2006-11-14, 10:21

Just like the MS is a forbiden Jutsu by the Uhcihas, the Kaiten and 64 strikest are Forbiden Jutsu of the Hyugas for the Branch Family, So people of the Branch Family have not taken a look or even description of teh Jutsu.
Haha.

The MS is forbidden because it requires a friend to be killed.

Hyuuga hasn't forbid anything ;) it's just not likely for a branch family member to come up with those techniques because they are only being taught to members of the main family.

Rurik

2006-11-14, 10:24

Haha.

The MS is forbidden because it requires a friend to be killed.

Hyuuga hasn't forbid anything ;) it's just not likely for a branch family member to come up with those techniques because they are only being taught to members of the main family.

Im sorry if my quote could had been taken in the incorrect context, when I say forbid, is saying it was restricted to only the Head Family members, so in a sense it is forbiden to the Branch Family members.

Dauthi

2006-11-14, 12:33

It seems you don’t get to well with facts, He did knew the names, so how cold he pair the names with the Jutsus????

How difficult could it be that after you doing a Jutsu that you spin yourself, its called Kaiten???

Kaiten is spinning in Japanese

How difficult it is to know your Jutsu is 64 strikes when you created a Jutsu that has, duh, 64 strikes?

Point here is that Neeji knew the existence of the Jutsu by Name, however that’s it, Naruto only neeeded to see Rasengan an with that he was practicality capable of doing on his own (Of course with a little help) So if the Kaiten, a Secret Jutsu used only by Hyugas that does not fight, is been shown like oyu say or the description is gave, Why then Hiahsi was so surprised and saying that this is a Jutsu that is only passed by the Huyga Main Family??? I mean he would had mentioned, He took the principle and did it.

NO he Said he Created that By Himself. The is no mistake in the fact trown around that indicate how Neeji practically invented by himself those 2 Jutsu.

Just like the MS is a forbiden Jutsu by the Uhcihas, the Kaiten and 64 strikest are Forbiden Jutsu of the Hyugas for the Branch Family, So people of the Branch Family have not taken a look or even description of teh Jutsu.

That is what i had been saying all along. While it is impressive, he had clues (isn't Kaiten "heavenly spin?" or something? He probably nearly mastered jyuuken by the time he started traing kaiten, making it much easier to test out this ability. After all, it is just excreting chakra/spinning, like Sabaku said.

He probably also knew it deflected/defended attacks. Otherwise he may have created an offensive move, or any variation of moves that was not exactly kaiten. Even with just "spin" you can't replicate something like that randomly.

When I talked about been Better than Neeji I was talking Genius wise, not experience wise.

Exactly. You stated they said in the manga that neji was better. I stated this due to his experience over him, not being a better genious.

And Shjino was not selected, So we have to say that Shino also did not deserved to become a Chunin or better put he did not had what It takes?

They graded everyone who fought. Shino got screwed over unfortunately, and never got a chance. So no, he didn't fail, he didn't take the test period.

And Please Im not contradicting the Manga, Im going with Neeji description in the Databook that fits very well with a Chunin. That Neeji lost his cool with Naruto, does not indicate that he is not Chunin worthy.

A leader is someone who does not lose their cool under any cercumstance, compromising the situation. That is what makes them a leader.

In other words, IM replying to you to your quote saying that there is no clue that on how Itachi gained the MS, and that Itachi could had been lying to Sasuke. Itahci did not say, You first must kill your best friend, He say You must Kill your best friend, there are no other ways in Itachis way.

I don’t care about the suppose mystery behind the MS, You replied to me because you try to talk yourself out of How Itahci gain the MS, and as it had said more than once, it was by Killing Shisui.

I coulda sworn all i asked about is how kakashi got it. I might have also said that if Itatchi obtained it by killing his friend like he states, did he have to train it as well in any way? These are unknown.

And please Don’t put word in my mouth, I never said Neeji is on the same Level as Itachi, I said that I considered Neeji to be a better genius than Itachi, Level and Genius are 2 different things.

I never meant otherwise. This was always about genious levels, not strenght levels. So when i mention simply "level", if i did, it of course is refering to a level of genious.

WHAT??? Are oyu even reading my post, seriously? Where did you get the idea that I was trying to compare Neeji to Sasuke based on he is a Jounin? I used Neeji as a Jounmnin to show you that he really got what it takes to get to Chunin and Beyond, as he was the only one who could reach Juonin at such a n earlier age, in fact, with current Situations, there is no other Jounin as Young as Neeji.

One of our main points was comparing Sasuke's genious to Neji's genious. Sasuke was the only other graduated "genious". So we can't say if he would be on pace with Neji anymore.

I don’t think So, He was Chunin worthy, and would had he fought with anybody else, he would had gain the Rank.

This may be so. Unfortunately instead of taking the test with a cool head (and ignore naruto/hinata) like a good potential leader would have done, he blew it.

Yeah, but his was not about Sasuke, this was about Itachi and Neeji, which you used Neeji not becoming a Chunin as way to prove that Itachi was better in sense than Neeji.

I was always arguing Itatchi is a better genious than both Sasuke and Neji. Another point i was arguing is that Neji and Sasuke are both even level genious'. Both similiar, but different points, which we have differing views.

Even by the results, that does not matter, this kind of poll only reflect sympathy towards a Character, Creating a poll does not reflects fact, just the Count of people opinions.

Curiousity. A lot of people's review of the whole situation will be better than 1 or 2.

And I said that This is we talk about Jyuken, but if we talk about the Doujutsu then the Byakugan does not fair better than Sharingan in Battle situations.

I started by implying if i were born in either clan. I understand byakugen is not jyuuken. I was implying my opinion but imposing myself into the world itself, as that would be the most fun way to have either ability. You should have started by saying i couldn't "be born" in this situation.... or whatever, even though i see this as rediculous.

That point was not even directed at you, that point was to show in the sense of the Manga that the People that had Sharingan were genius (as a fact from both Databook and Manga) so they knew how to adjust a newly copy Jutsu, this observation was not even intended about the Doujutsu itself.

Yeah, and i argued that because i thought it was rediculous =).

I never said Neeji was on the Same level as Itachi, please quote me when I said that. I only Said he was on the same level or even a Better genius than Itachi.

Again, this was never about anything but levels of genious.

I did not lost any track, reason why I had to repost again your post an Myne, I knew very well since the beginning what this debate was about and why it had so many changes, and mostly was you questioning things I used from the Manga.

So you can talk about your Point about Hyugas vs Uchihas, I just don’t agree this is what the thread is about.

I think since this thread is labled "sharingan vs byakugen" people impose them against eachother in battles (which i did not). This was stopped, as it is not what the thread implied. It implied which would you want and why. I answered both.

Rurik

2006-11-14, 12:55

That is what i had been saying all along. While it is impressive, he had clues (isn't Kaiten "heavenly spin?" or something? He probably nearly mastered jyuuken by the time he started traing kaiten, making it much easier to test out this ability. After all, it is just excreting chakra/spinning, like Sabaku said.

Kaiten is just Spin, and then clues like the name does not help too much, because then we would had a bunch of Hyugas doing it, and it would had not been that secret to beggin with.

Exactly. You stated they said in the manga that neji was better. I stated this due to his experience over him, not being a better genious.

Well, I don’t think Kakshi coments about been better was based on his experience, rather on how good he was and his genius. ohhh well….

They graded everyone who fought. Shino got screwed over unfortunately, and never got a chance. So no, he didn't fail, he didn't take the test period.

=p don’t give excuse for Shino!!!!!!!

A leader is someone who does not lose their cool under any cercumstance, compromising the situation. That is what makes them a leader.

And how do oyu know if Shino would not loose his Cool if His Opponent begin to Kill his Bugs or talk bad about Bugs?

A Leader could be someone that should not compromise the situation, However, You are taking Neeji behavior inside a Tournament and not a real mission, Each and every person that is show to be a Chunin or Jounnin for that matter has show emotions, Emotions that could compromise a mission, yet they are Chunin.

I coulda sworn all i asked about is how kakashi got it. I might have also said that if Itatchi obtained it by killing his friend like he states, did he have to train it as well in any way? These are unknown.

Well check your post then,because if you were trying to imply that, then It was misleading. Because Originally I used Itahci gaining the MS as something he did that really was not because of his Genius.

I never meant otherwise. This was always about genious levels, not strenght levels. So when i mention simply "level", if i did, it of course is refering to a level of genious.

But you have to be clear on that, because its look otherwise….

Our main point was comparing Sasuke's genious to Neji's genious. Sasuke was the only other graduated "genious". So we can't say if he would be on pace with Neji anymore.

Well, Yeah, but The ranks really don’t play any factor at all, either way that’s why I did not wanted to compared Neeji with Sasuke, because for me, Neejis genius far exceeds Sasuke.

This may be so. Unfortunately instead of taking the test with a cool head (and ignore naruto/hinata) like a good potential leader would have done, he blew it.
Like I said above, this was a tourney, could you know if Neeji would had done the same in real Mission were his Teamates life are in Danger?

Each and One of the selected Chunin had something which don’t define a Leader, I meant Hinata a Chunin?, someone with the personality as Hinata does not have leadership traits

I was always arguing Itatchi is a better genious than both Sasuke and Neji. Another point i was arguing is that Neji and Sasuke are both even level genious'. Both similiar, but different points, which we have differing views.

Uhu, and because this is a matter of Opinion, I will always consider that Comparing Neeji with Sasuke is not fair, because I wll always observe Neeji as a better Genius.

Curiousity. A lot of people's review of the whole situation will be better than 1 or 2.
Yeah, but it still would not meant that one or the other view is incorrect.

Yeah, and i argued that because i thought it was rediculous =).

You touhg..or do you still believe…?

I started by implying if i were born in either clan. I understand byakugen is not jyuuken. I was implying my opinion but imposing myself into the world itself, as that would be the most fun way to have either ability. You should have started by saying i couldn't "be born" in this situation.... or whatever, even though i see this as rediculous.

I think since this thread is labled "sharingan vs byakugen" people impose them against eachother in battles (which i did not). This was stopped, as it is not what the thread implied. It implied which would you want and why. I answered both.

Yeah, but your answered was mostly based on the Clan rather than the Doujtsu itself, which was my problem to begin with, As I never agree that MS should be part of the Sharingan abilities to be used.

Dauthi

2006-11-14, 21:45

Kaiten is just Spin, and then clues like the name does not help too much, because then we would had a bunch of Hyugas doing it, and it would had not been that secret to beggin with.

Like i said, he at least had to know if it was defensive/offensive. He could come up with a lot of his own jutsu and name it "kaiten" and not be right, so it couldn't be coincidental.

Well, I don’t think Kakshi coments about been better was based on his experience, rather on how good he was and his genius. ohhh well….

Does he state directly he is a better genious though? We all agree with kakashi Neji could defeat sasuke.

And how do oyu know if Shino would not loose his Cool if His Opponent begin to Kill his Bugs or talk bad about Bugs?

Totally speculative. We havn't seen him let out a hint of emotion, and he is very intelligent. So most assume he would pass. But we never do know for sure.

A Leader could be someone that should not compromise the situation, However, You are taking Neeji behavior inside a Tournament and not a real mission, Each and every person that is show to be a Chunin or Jounnin for that matter has show emotions, Emotions that could compromise a mission, yet they are Chunin.

Well name a chuunin who has battled and anger/sadness/jealous etc has follied his battle? Shika has always been level headed in any situation, even when Taiyuya (or whatever that flute chicks name was) tried to attack him verbally. He definitely felt the shot at him, but did not let it bother him.

Well check your post then,because if you were trying to imply that, then It was misleading. Because Originally I used Itahci gaining the MS as something he did that really was not because of his Genius.

My statement was all we knew is that Itatchi said you have to kill your best friend (and it is fully possible he is lying to corrupt Sasuke). We know little else, so we shouldn't bring MS in the topic since it is mostly speculative.

But you have to be clear on that, because its look otherwise….

I created a new topic even relating to it now as you see. It was all i was concerned about, since we began by arguing "all sharingan users are genious'".

Like I said above, this was a tourney, could you know if Neeji would had done the same in real Mission were his Teamates life are in Danger?

That fact may hamper his actions. If he is emotional fighting Naruto, if he is doing missions with friends as a leader, he may comprimise it. For instance, shika had to make sacrifices of his friends to complete the mission, but did not let it get to him. It was the best course, so he headed that way regardless of emotion towards his friends.

Each and One of the selected Chunin had something which don’t define a Leader, I meant Hinata a Chunin?, someone with the personality as Hinata does not have leadership traits

You mean after the time skip? The other genin grew up im sure. Hinata is quiet and timid, but her idol is Naruto. After his help (during the exam) i can imagine she improved.

Rurik

2006-11-14, 23:00

Like i said, he at least had to know if it was defensive/offensive. He could come up with a lot of his own jutsu and name it "kaiten" and not be right, so it couldn't be coincidental.

It could be, but knowing if it Offense or Deffense also does not help much...

In the Case of 64 strikes, I hardly doubt Someone would think is an Defensive move.:p

Either way, this debate was drag because I used the word Invented, you may not see it like that, But as far as i have gathered Neeji Created those Jutsu from 0 only Knowing them By name.

I don't think this should be debated any further.
Does he state directly he is a better genious though? We all agree with kakashi Neji could defeat sasuke.

Kakshi Words was: "But for a guy like this to exist",

And the He said Sasuke would not Have a Change, and this observation of Kakshi was only after watch Neeji Fight Hinata, which was not even close to what Neeji really was.

The Praise of genius in this moment was because he was Closing HInatas Tenketsu So she could not use the Jyuken properly, Something that KAkshi sort of implied as to be something extremely difficult to do in BAtle Situations.

Given Kakshi words, I doubt he was speaking abaout Neeji based that He was more experienced than Sasuke.

Totally speculative. We havn't seen him let out a hint of emotion, and he is very intelligent. So most assume he would pass. But we never do know for sure.

IT was a sarcasm Dauthi :heh: BUt I dont know maybe If you beggin eating bugs he might get mad....

Well name a chuunin who has battled and anger/sadness/jealous etc has follied his battle? Shika has always been level headed in any situation, even when Taiyuya (or whatever that flute chicks name was) tried to attack him verbally. He definitely felt the shot at him, but did not let it bother him.

I said that had shown Emotions, I did not say that they did it in battle, BUt One that come to mind right now is Sandaime that let his emotion get in the way and let Oro live.

Sakura Showed she had emotions When We talk about Sasuke, Ino Showed Emotions as a angst girl, The Name Fat cant still be said around Chouji

My statement was all we knew is that Itatchi said you have to kill your best friend (and it is fully possible he is lying to corrupt Sasuke). We know little else, so we shouldn't bring MS in the topic since it is mostly speculative.

And I say that Itahci Killed Shisui to gain MS, which is a stated fact, and given everything said so far, Hew was not lying to Sasuke. I don't see any reason for Itahci lying to Sasuke, Sasuke reading about it in the scroll, and other form of gainig it, because if he is the bad guy, and MS was A Tabbu Power, then some sort of evil deed must had been committed to reach it.

I don't think if MS could had been gain in another way, MS would had not been so YTabu and so rare.

I mentioned MS on how he gained it and how he was practically been able to use it the Day after he gain it, pretty much show you that Itahci gaining he MS is nothing to be praise inside his genius Ability.

Now, Because anyone will doubt that Kakshi got that far to get the MS, I praised Kakshi for Reaching such Jutsu in another way, Itahci was even surprised that Kakashi gained the MS

That fact may hamper his actions. If he is emotional fighting Naruto, if he is doing missions with friends as a leader, he may comprimise it. For instance, shika had to make sacrifices of his friends to complete the mission, but did not let it get to him. It was the best course, so he headed that way regardless of emotion towards his friends.

YEt he cracked in tears and say he would never take Mission again, however his act on things that are not the battlefield are not really good measure of what could go on the Battlefield, A person behavior in one moment, does not means he will behave like that always..

You mean after the time skip? The other genin grew up im sure. Hinata is quiet and timid, but her idol is Naruto. After his help (during the exam) i can imagine she improved.
HInata Showed she was the same Shy person, and belive me, Your Personality does not change in just 2 and some years

If you have all the leadership traits minus one, it doesn't ot means You cant be a leader, there is no such thing as a perfect leader, and besides Leadership is ONE of the quality fro been a Chunin, Not the only Quality needed.

Suna no tate

2006-11-15, 00:39

If you ask me, when genius is used referring to these individuals, it has nothing to do with intelligence. Sasuke and Neji are both smart, but nothing to write home about. When genius is used to describe Shikamaru, it is used in a differenct context than when it is used to describe Sasuke, Neji, and Kimimaro. I include kimimaro in this discussion for a purpose. You see, when the word genius is used to describe these clan members, my understanding is that it best describes how strongly that person has inherited the clans bloodline. Clearly not all members of the Hyuuga clan inherit the byakugan as strongly as Neji, nor the same for the Uchiha clan as Sasuke, nor the same for the -insert name here- clan as Kimimaro. They are the geniuses of their clans because they, by luck in the genetic lottery, have received the best and highest forms of their bloodlines. Again, Sasuke and Neji are smart... but thats no why they are geniuses. You have to understand they while some may have the byakugan, maybe not all can see as well with it (just like how we all have eyes, but some of our eyes are better than others). The genius is the person who inherits all the best traits and is in the position to best use them. If Neji was a regular person like Iruka or Tenten, lacking a bloodline or special trait, we wouldn't be having a genius discussion right now. The same for Sasuke. They are geniuses because they have inherited the highest and best forms of their bloodlines. At least that is my understanding.

Its also interesting to note that several times, Sasuke and Neji have been called geniuses and so has Kimimaro once or twice, but I don't think Shikamaru was ever directly called a genius. He was said to be smart, have an amazing IQ, and etc, but was never called a genius (at least not to my knowledge); perhaps my understanding of the context of the word is the correct one? I'm also pretty sure the word "genius" was never used to describe Itachi either. We (as readers) just attribute it (our own definition of the word) to the fact that at such a young age he had already risen to high ranks.

So in essense I think there is a misunderstanding about the word and the context it is typically used. It probably refers to individuals who have most strongly inherited the bloodline limit.

raikage

2006-11-15, 12:46

The one Japanese word, 天才 -- tensai -- has several English translations (most meaning about the same thing) like genius, prodigy, gifted, etc.

Personally, I think only Shikamaru deserves the title of genius because he is the only one who is mentally on a different playing field.

Itachi, Neji, and Sasuke are more like prodigies -- highly talented, but not 'genius' stuff.

Dauthi

2006-11-15, 12:53

It could be, but knowing if it Offense or Deffense also does not help much...

In the Case of 64 strikes, I hardly doubt Someone would think is an Defensive move.:p

Either way, this debate was drag because I used the word Invented, you may not see it like that, But as far as i have gathered Neeji Created those Jutsu from 0 only Knowing them By name.

I don't think this should be debated any further.

Kakshi Words was: "But for a guy like this to exist",

And the He said Sasuke would not Have a Change, and this observation of Kakshi was only after watch Neeji Fight Hinata, which was not even close to what Neeji really was.

The Praise of genius in this moment was because he was Closing HInatas Tenketsu So she could not use the Jyuken properly, Something that KAkshi sort of implied as to be something extremely difficult to do in BAtle Situations.

Given Kakshi words, I doubt he was speaking abaout Neeji based that He was more experienced than Sasuke.

IT was a sarcasm Dauthi :heh: BUt I dont know maybe If you beggin eating bugs he might get mad....

I said that had shown Emotions, I did not say that they did it in battle, BUt One that come to mind right now is Sandaime that let his emotion get in the way and let Oro live.

Sakura Showed she had emotions When We talk about Sasuke, Ino Showed Emotions as a angst girl, The Name Fat cant still be said around Chouji

And I say that Itahci Killed Shisui to gain MS, which is a stated fact, and given everything said so far, Hew was not lying to Sasuke. I don't see any reason for Itahci lying to Sasuke, Sasuke reading about it in the scroll, and other form of gainig it, because if he is the bad guy, and MS was A Tabbu Power, then some sort of evil deed must had been committed to reach it.

I don't think if MS could had been gain in another way, MS would had not been so YTabu and so rare.

I mentioned MS on how he gained it and how he was practically been able to use it the Day after he gain it, pretty much show you that Itahci gaining he MS is nothing to be praise inside his genius Ability.

Now, Because anyone will doubt that Kakshi got that far to get the MS, I praised Kakshi for Reaching such Jutsu in another way, Itahci was even surprised that Kakashi gained the MS

YEt he cracked in tears and say he would never take Mission again, however his act on things that are not the battlefield are not really good measure of what could go on the Battlefield, A person behavior in one moment, does not means he will behave like that always..

HInata Showed she was the same Shy person, and belive me, Your Personality does not change in just 2 and some years

If you have all the leadership traits minus one, it doesn't ot means You cant be a leader, there is no such thing as a perfect leader, and besides Leadership is ONE of the quality fro been a Chunin, Not the only Quality needed.

64 strikes is pretty straight forward, so i didn't go into that.

When Kakashi said "For a guy like this to exist" i always figured he was referring to his hate for the upper house and how he was strong for a lower house. I agree that Sasuke wouldn't have had a chance against him (esp at that time when he couldn't use his sharingan).

Shino is a pretty cool character, so i just like to talk about him ^^

Its perfectly ok to show emotion after the mission of course... ninja are not unfeeling robots. This showed he guarded his emotion and focused on the mission while fighting.

The whole fat thing is retarded funny-plot-no-jutsu. I wont even go into Sakura's crazy girl obsession with Sasuke. Luckily when she took the test nobody mentioned him etc aparently.

He may have simply killed his best friend to test himself, and had trained the MS before. Slight possibility, but since Kakashi proved you can get it without killing your best friend.... You would think that it wouldn't be completely taboo to learn MS as long as they guarded the secret of gaining it the "quick" way, if it is possible.

Rurik

2006-11-15, 13:22

When Kakashi said "For a guy like this to exist" i always figured he was referring to his hate for the upper house and how he was strong for a lower house. I agree that Sasuke wouldn't have had a chance against him (esp at that time when he couldn't use his sharingan).

I see, But, Yah Kakashi remarks was because of what Neeji showed he could do in that fight.

Its perfectly ok to show emotion after the mission of course... ninja are not unfeeling robots. This showed he guarded his emotion and focused on the mission while fighting.

Yeah, In a Mission!, So, We had to Judge Neeji and how he could react in a Mission! and not in a Tournament that is only made to show who is better, Heck most of the people that were participating in the Chunking were just to test how strong they were

The whole fat thing is retarded funny-plot-no-jutsu. I wont even go into Sakura's crazy girl obsession with Sasuke. Luckily when she took the test nobody mentioned him etc aparently.

What about in a Mission, with Sakura would How she will take a Decision based on his teammates or Saving Sasuke? or How Chouji loose his cool in part of the test when called Fatty?

He may have simply killed his best friend to test himself, and had trained the MS before. Slight possibility, but since Kakashi proved you can get it without killing your best friend.... You would think that it wouldn't be completely taboo to learn MS as long as they guarded the secret of gaining it the "quick" way, if it is possible.

I don’t think it was like that, it does not go with what the MS is.

IF MS would have other known way to be Gained rather than Killing the best Friend, It would had been Just a Jutsu of the Uchiha and even training method would had been created for the Uchihas to reach it and it would had not been said to be rare. And the Fact that when Sasuke Father told Sasuke about MS and quickly added that don’t follow Itachi footstep could only be hinting that Fugaku may have guessed what Itachi did.

My Main problem with not believing a stated fact in the Manga about how to Gain the MS, is the way MS was treated, AS Just because the Uchiha only knew how to gain it one way, does not means that’s the only way.

Lets not forget also that Kyuby itself Called the Uchiha a Cursed Blood/Chakra even more than his own, and the Scrolls with the true purpose of the Doojutsu, which does not seems to be "Help the old lady cross the street".

As For Kakshim, given what I said and That Itahci killed his best friend to gain the MS, The most fitting answer could be that He Copied the MS when Itahci Did it against him, after all Kakshi used the Sharingan to try an counter MS

Suna no tate

2006-11-15, 13:39

Dauthi

2006-11-15, 13:59

Perhaps... I find it interesting that kakashi can now warp his normal sharingan eye into the MS and warp it back, yet he can't warp his sharingan eye off... kinda silly...It'd make more sense if it was stuck in a permanent MS conformation. But maybe thats just me... I also suspect that the MS doesn't have a set jutsu, that is when you develop the MS, you don't get Amaterasu or you get tsukuyomi automatically. It probably makes more sense that you get your own type of MS jutsu. I say this because I expect sasuke to soon show his, and probably reveal that jutsu Oro told him to keep hidden.

I would try to break down Kakashi's eye into logic/theory, but i honestly dont even want to try. Its one of those things just left to story =p. He has it, aparently cannot turn it offbut can turn on/off MS.

That is an excellent theory however. It would make MS much more interesting, each sharingan user gets their own signature move using it.

Rurik -

I agree he could have copied it too. It is very possible that could have happened rather than train it. I guess we will have to wait and find out for sure.

EDIT--

And actually if you wanted to test the theory, and kill 2 birds with one stone :

If Tobi is Obito, and if Sharingan abilities are unique to an individual, perhaps you could double check to see if there are clues to how Tobi killed the demon. If it looks similiar to what Kakashi pulled off with his (they are the same eye after all) like a giant hole drilled through it...

naruto123

2006-11-15, 18:20

Byakugan is better it even says so when Kakashi says its the better eye

mid-nite

2006-11-18, 15:10

Byakugan is better it even says so when Kakashi says its the better eye

told ya..........

inferno_grl

2006-11-18, 16:44

told ya..........

mid- nite!!!!!!!!!!?????????? what the........ oh, hi candy.

byakugan hinata~

2006-11-21, 18:11

OMG!!! i so vote byakugan!!! bykugan rox XDXD

GaaraIsMySexyLover

2006-11-21, 19:57

the Sharinga, it just looks so much better.

Gaara-kun

2006-11-22, 00:56

i'd say sharingan cause it looks so much cooler.^^
anyone know where i could get sharingan contacts?XD

0TaKu0

2006-11-22, 06:28

i'd say sharingan cause it looks so much cooler.^^
anyone know where i could get sharingan contacts?XD

Sorry to go off topic, but I wanted to answer this.

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/itachisclera.jpg
Itachi Sclera

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/itachi.jpg
Itachi Sharingan

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/itachiblue.jpg
Blue Itachi Sharingan (lol?)

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/kakashi.jpg
Kakashi Sharingan

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/sasuke.jpg
Sasuke Sharingan

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Mangekyu.jpg
Itachi Mangekyo Sharingan

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/mangekyu2.jpg
Kakashi Mangekyo Sharingan

All this and more can be found at http://www.9mmsfx.com/ These people provide the Movie and Entertainment industry, they even have those mirror lenses from the movie Chronicles of Riddick.

Gotta warn you though, the price's are no joke. Yes they can be brought with a prescription if you ware glasses.

inferno_grl

2006-11-22, 07:34

i'd say sharingan cause it looks so much cooler.^^
anyone know where i could get sharingan contacts?XD

uh...... well this is this store in my neighborhood that sells red contacts for...... well they're any color but...... Its called "china town" maybe they have one near you somwhere.

Dauthi

2006-11-22, 11:37

Sorry to go off topic, but I wanted to answer this.

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/itachisclera.jpg
Itachi Sclera

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/itachi.jpg
Itachi Sharingan

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/itachiblue.jpg
Blue Itachi Sharingan (lol?)

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/kakashi.jpg
Kakashi Sharingan

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/sasuke.jpg
Sasuke Sharingan

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Mangekyu.jpg
Itachi Mangekyo Sharingan

http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/mangekyu2.jpg
Kakashi Mangekyo Sharingan

All this and more can be found at http://www.9mmsfx.com/ These people provide the Movie and Entertainment industry, they even have those mirror lenses from the movie Chronicles of Riddick.

Gotta warn you though, the price's are no joke. Yes they can be brought with a prescription if you ware glasses.

Why do all those people kinda not have eyebrows.. it scares me.

Suna no tate

2006-11-22, 16:07

Yeah that one slide ruins everything.

Cursemarksasuke

2006-11-25, 10:09

Nobody knows what i picked

inferno_grl

2006-11-25, 10:11

well wat did you pick then?

hitokirigirl

2006-11-25, 11:57

i'd say sharingan cause it looks so much cooler.^^
anyone know where i could get sharingan contacts?XD

I'm probably crazy, but I find Byakugan way much cooler...the veins and stuff look incredible.

inferno_grl

2006-11-25, 12:20

I'm probably crazy, but I find Byakugan way much cooler...the veins and stuff look incredible.

no they are awesome.

byakugan hinata~

2006-11-25, 12:38

i guess i'd have to say sharigan cause in a way its a lot more useful than the byakugan. like in school, you can get good grades and do well in sports! but with the byakugan, what use is it if you're not a shinobi like neji? like what are you gonna do with it if you really did have it? go and hit someones tenketsu(spelling...XD)? i personally think that the sharigan is much more useful than the byakugan and its better looking than the byakugan too!

LordKun

2006-11-26, 02:55

Byukugan ftw. Considering I'm not usually in combat situations so it would have more use :P

B_girl15

2006-11-26, 14:22

i think that the Sharingan is way better than the byukugan because it just is and the fact that with the byukugan your vains pop out and its gross.

inferno_grl

2006-11-26, 15:30

how are you proving us wrong.... there is no proof... its just your opinion.

Rich

2006-11-26, 17:55

how are you proving us wrong.... there is no proof... its just your opinion.

well look of a pictures of byakugan.. you can see when one activates it, their veins pop (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Byakugan.jpg) out near the eyes...

Mikaru

2006-11-26, 21:07

Spectacular_Insanity

2006-11-27, 10:33

Lol. In battle, morals have no place. If someone kills you in a one-on-one fight to the death and your opponent pulls a trick out of his hat, you aren't going to say, "He cheated!", are you? :heh:

Salt

2006-11-27, 15:59

Though the Sharingan is great, I would go with the Byukugan. The Sharingan isn’t really noble to me. Stealing others’ hard earned talents (that probably took years to master) in a matter of seconds doesn’t appeal to me. It’s probably because of my high morals.

I wouldn't call it stealing, since your victim doesn't lose the skill or anything. It would be like learn how to solve differential equations from a book someone wrote, instead going by trial and error the way the creater of the methods did.

Shay

2007-02-08, 16:24

So, to the manga readers. Are we ever going to see a Sasuke vs. Neji battle or what? Is it even on the cards?

PM me if need be.