Byakugan vs. Sharingan

[smee]

So wut would u rather have and why? Byukugan or Sharingan? I would rather have byukugan cuz u get a 360 degree view and it looks pretty darn cool. sharingan looks cool too but i think byukugan is more usefull.

[NenMaster]

sharingan, think it look better than the byukugan ;) i need 2 see more from both eyes before making a choice for battle ;)

[uglypigs]

yAy its 1 of these! awesome1 i ch00se byukn because i want to l00k thr0gh g1rls sk1rts!

sorry im a jackass.

[Hunter]

I wondered who would be the first to remake this post :p

Well both in the real world and in the Naruto universe the Sharingan.
Mess up with the spirit of anyone is far better than to be able to see at 360°

[Napoleon]

Before I answer this, I got a question. Does the Byukugan have an absolute avantage againts Genjutsus? I mean if the Byukugan can see through everything, won't illusions designed to fool the eyes be useless?

[Stickels]

I'd rather have sharingan, its not as noticable. If anybody saw you use Byukugan in real life they wouldn't think it was cool... they'd all just think your a freak and stay away from you.

[smee]

I'd rather have sharingan, its not as noticable. If anybody saw you use Byukugan in real life they wouldn't think it was cool... they'd all just think your a freak and stay away from you.

thats the point dude, if u were in a fight and used byukugan u would win right there. i know it would be a little strange but its still cool.

[Stickels]

well... if you were in a fight and you used sharingan you'd win right there to, and nobody would think your a freak... except the guy you just beat the crap out of who saw your eyes turn red...

now how awesome would that be? The guy would be rambeling forever about "he... he wasn't real, he was demon, the guy has blood red eyes!" and people would look at you... and see that your eyes are obviously not blood red, and just think he's delusional.

[smee]

lol, that would be cool, i'd be more scared if a guy did byukugan though, all the veins and stuff.

[Lst2touchdasky]

Sharigan beacuse red is my favorite color and also sharigan is more rare then byukugan. Also it would be pretty nice because i would be able to get good grades in school just like sasuke did it the first test

[Dragon Flame]

im staying clear of this thread, its nothing but trouble

[Kamui4356]

I'd have to go with the sharingan. With it you could learn any martial art in a few seconds, assuming you're in good enough shape to actually do the moves. Also you could copy other moves from Naruto like kage bushin no jutsu. Finally two words, mange sharingan.

[eLstar]

im staying clear of this thread, its nothing but trouble
You said it. But I chose Sharingan.

For old times sake.

;)

[GUTB_]

Sharingan is more advanced that Bakyugan. With Sharingan you get to see chakra, greatly improve your visual perception, the ability to easily memorize everything you see with it and strong brainwashing capabilities. That has a lot more real-life applications than Bakyugan which is, honestly, not that powerful until you learn the soft-fist style that goes with it. And even then it's only good for combat. You don't need to learn any special martial arts to get a lot of use out of Sharingan, and can learn just by looking at others if you wanted.

But it should also be mentioned that the soft-fist style doesn't require Bakyugan, it's just not that effective without beign able to pinpoint someone's chakara points. But when you have that ability, you become super-powerful in hand-to-hand. With Sharingan, you are still getting your ass kicked by Mike Tyson. But with Bakyugan + soft-fist, you just touch Mike Tyson and he falls over coughing up blood. That is pretty cool.

[Hunter]

In real life Mike Tyson haven't any chakra flow, so touch him with your fingers will just irritate him ;)

[Kabuto]

Sharingan is more advanced that Bakyugan. With Sharingan you get to see chakra, greatly improve your visual perception, the ability to easily memorize everything you see with it and strong brainwashing capabilities. That has a lot more real-life applications than Bakyugan which is, honestly, not that powerful until you learn the soft-fist style that goes with it. And even then it's only good for combat. You don't need to learn any special martial arts to get a lot of use out of Sharingan, and can learn just by looking at others if you wanted.

But it should also be mentioned that the soft-fist style doesn't require Bakyugan, it's just not that effective without beign able to pinpoint someone's chakara points. But when you have that ability, you become super-powerful in hand-to-hand. With Sharingan, you are still getting your ass kicked by Mike Tyson. But with Bakyugan + soft-fist, you just touch Mike Tyson and he falls over coughing up blood. That is pretty cool.

The Byakugan can also see Chakara. The Sharingan can see it as flames of Charaka but the Byakugan can see it flow. Like Kakashi said, the Byakugan has much more abilities then the Sharingan. THe only reason that its so feared in the naruto world is because a lot of clans and individuals work extremely hard to master their own unique move and secrets. While the Byakugan can see the secrets, the sharingan can copy it right on the spot which is much more devistating.

Who would want their family secret unvield in such an easy way?

The sharingan also has the ability to predict what is going to happen next in a combat. Its not telling the future but its more like calculating the probabitlity.
The hypnotic technique you were talking about before isn't a sharingan move. It is a type of genjutsu.

WHat kakashi did before was use genjutsu and his sharingan to confuse Zabuza(what ever his name is)

I think you would break your fingers by poking tyson. Or he might just bite it off.

[Vicious]

I'd rather have the Byakugan in the real world, for the same reasons as uglypigs-san :naughty:
But in the Naruto world I'd rather have the Sharingan. It's more useful to have countless jutsu, you just have to use the right one to beat the enemy.

[Hunter]

Like Kakashi said, the Byakugan has much more abilities then the Sharingan.

lol kakashi never said that, he said that the Byakugan has a better insight abilities than the sharingan that's all.
The Byakugan can't have more abilities than the sharingan for a very simple reason, the Sharingan can give you an infinite amount of abilities.

THe only reason that its so feared in the naruto world is because a lot of clans and individuals work extremely hard to master their own unique move and secrets. While the Byakugan can see the secrets, the sharingan can copy it right on the spot which is much more devistating.

Who would want their family secret unvield in such an easy way?


That's right, but it's only one reason and the mange sharingan is the other one.
Nobody can fight equally against a Sharingan's master but an other Sharingan's master.

The hypnotic technique you were talking about before isn't a sharingan move. It is a type of genjutsu.

No it's not, the Tsukuyomi of Itachi for example is a special Sharingan genjutsu that only the sharingan user can use or countered, the sharingan is a dojutsu which allow you to use specific genjutsu.

[monir]

im staying clear of this thread, its nothing but troublehaahaa...like it or not you are in it as soon as you posted:D

Well it is very hard to choose between them..Can I have both?:D...I would like Sharingan because it can predict/anticipate the movements of the opponent then again Byukugan enables to see the chakra-flow points which is a great advantage to have in a hand to hand combat..

[Stickels]

well... unless your neji you probably won't be able to hit the chakra points anyways... even if you do know where they are.

[aFlipGuy]

but if ur not itachi u wouldnt know how to use the mange sharingan, or if ur not sasuke u wouldnt improve ur speed so much in a month.....

flipguy likes byakugan more than sharingan, byakugan sees all, so if u flick me off behind my back, i will know ^_^ or i can see through girl's shirts ^_^ all those hot ninjas in konoha haahahah they can be naked in my eyes all the time ^_^ but thats not all i can copy answers ^_^ when i am taking a test, sharingan can do that also by copying thier movements but veiny eyes are soo much cooler than swirly eyes

we havent seen any byakugan master so we cant say that sharingan is stronger than byakugan, maybe if there was a byakugan master who knows a hidden ability....similar to mange sharingan or sumtin cause mange sharingan is too cheap

[monir]

well... unless your neji you probably won't be able to hit the chakra points anyways... even if you do know where they are.Neji's ability is actually a little bit more advanced. He not only see the main chakra points but also see the sub points which are connected to the main points and Neji can disrupt the chakra flow by attacking those subpoints with his unique ability..Now with my amaturish skill using Byukugan, i will just try to punch out those main-points in the chakra flow, and I dont have to be Neji to do that...:D

[nojevo]

One reason why Sharingan rules... Itachi !!

[Stickels]

Who the heck is Itachi now?

[Evilbunny]

Who the heck is Itachi now?

Itachi is Sasuke's borther. Orochimauru mentions his name in the forest, remember?

anyway i think Byukugan is so much cooler than Sharingan. even if the person ur fighting doesn't have chakra flow u can still see major arteries and pressure points, so it rules. Plus u can see through girls clothes.... is there anything left to argue? :p

[Hunter]

we havent seen any byakugan master so we cant say that sharingan is stronger than byakugan, maybe if there was a byakugan master who knows a hidden ability....similar to mange sharingan or sumtin cause mange sharingan is too cheap

lol of course we saw a Byakugan's master : the father of Hinata.
Face it, the absolute hidden jutsu of the hyuga is the Kaiten, it's the jutsu only know by the heir of the Hyuga clan.

Hinata is a normal Byakugan's user and she can't even see the chakra holes.
Neji is a genious, he's one of the extremely few member of the Hyuga's clan (and by extremely few I mean 2 people for the moment) who can fight by using the chakra holes.

Now you can believe that the Byakugan can launch some kind of chakra laser beam if you really want to but it's just your imagination, not fact.

Stickels, Itachi is the brother of Sasuke.

[Stickels]

oh, thats what I thought, just making sure.

[GUTB_]

The attacking of specific chakara sub-points is a very high-level style mastered only by a few. At the lower level, the major chakra coils are attacked directly, resulting in internal organ damage. So even an average user can take down a giant with one hit.

Neji was trying to drive home the point to Hinata that she couldn't ever touch him, which is why he went through the effort of closing the sub-points. When he got pissed off, he just attacked normally to do critical damage. Figure that Neji will usually do normal attacks, as the sub-point technique is really only good for disabling oppenents. Of course, Neji isn't out to kill anyone in the exam (except for that one moment with hinata) so he's more likely to use non-lethal force. And he also gets to show off his mad skill in the process :)

[Kabuto]

lol kakashi never said that, he said that the Byakugan has a better insight abilities than the sharingan that's all.
The Byakugan can't have more abilities than the sharingan for a very simple reason, the Sharingan can give you an infinite amount of abilities.

When i mean the ammount of abilities i was saying on how much the eye can do alone. You took my statement out of context. But you are right. In the long term the sharingan will have an infinite amount of abilities.

That's right, but it's only one reason and the mange sharingan is the other one.
Nobody can fight equally against a Sharingan's master but an other Sharingan's master. As of now in the Manga it doesn't look like any HUMAN can. But you are forgetting about other beings in the Naruto world like the demons. AKA 9 tails. Another note is Itachi is following orders, if he was the stongest in his organization i would think he would take it over by now. ANyways it doesn't look like Itachi would follow anyone weaker then him. So its possible for the leader to be human or demon.


No it's not, the Tsukuyomi of Itachi for example is a special Sharingan genjutsu that only the sharingan user can use or countered, the sharingan is a dojutsu which allow you to use specific genjutsu.
I understand that but i was referring to what Kakashi was doing during the fight. But i totally forgot about the Manga Sharingan.

[Mr. Bushido]

ppl always say: "__ will make you stronger"
in the real world u dont always get into fights. The point of life in the real world is not to be the strongest.

with that i will say neither... because its still hard to choose, ill show u the reasons why id like both of them and y i wouldnt.

Byakugen

likes
i can see everything. The new japanese tech where it makes u invisible? i can still see you. hot grls will always be naked even in winter. dont know the answer? no one in class knows the answer? the book in my backpack does, the teacher's answer sheet does. secret meeting of ur competitor in buisness? i know wat they're planning. my gf lives 10 miles away? i can see her. perverted things. ure a doctor? cant find the problem? well lets examine the body layer by layer without exposing xrays. in war? captured? blindfolded? doesnt stop u.

dislikes:
freaky veins and silver eyes... you'll probably become a cheater ur whole life. will never be good at anything really.

Sharingan:

likes:
copy everything. He's a good guitar player? now u r. ure in war? dodge bullets. someone pisses him off? give him mental damages to the max. be a step faster. notice everything. (thats not behind u). smart kid in front of u in a test? copy exactly wat he's saying

dislikes:
sucks ur energy like mad doesnt it? its not good to cheat by putting exactly wat another person wrote especially in essays. u have to be a psycho to give someone the mange sharingan.



id go for kage bunshin or Lee's speed over these two any day.

[Jn183]

In real life, I would pick Byukugan. Pin pointing Chakra is like acupuncture. Could see all the weak spot in a human body. Oh yeah, need Neji speed to be able to hit the spot., also. That would be great. Kick mike tyson or anyone behind

[Paiser]

Okay but if your a current level where Sasuke is u can see the attack before comes at u! And Sasuke being freakishly fast and all he win. So swirly eyes beat blindies... but if you werent in sasuke's level but lil bit below him u still kick ass because ur lil bit slower then sasuke and naji is slow compare to sasuke! LOL and LEE kick ass... Gate of LIFE AND OVER NO MATTER WUT and also Gaara had shield, if he didnt had shield he be down.... N/E ways if it were sasuke vs neji... sasuke wins...(in manga version) (in anime neji wins right now...)
But pretty cool to see all girls naked... but guys are around to.... EW>.<

[Stickels]

in real life, if someone did Byukugan on me, I'd shoot them in the face, good luck out moving a bullet.

[Kabuto]

You know what i want. I want some of those pills they have.
They got pills that can do anything for you.

But what i do want in the Naruto world would be the basics. The ninja know how and chakara control. Also the ability to not feel physical pain like they do in the anime. Also the to never have my bones break and extrude out of my skin just like naruto. ANd no visible damage.

But what i really want is an anime babe!!!!!
heheh :heh:

Am i asking for too much?

[Moon The Cat]

If Mange Sharingan and the Byakugan's ability to see thorugh skirts collided, the universe would explode, the abilities are just to powerful.

Returning to the serious world where I don't have Byakugan. Even thugh Byakugan gives you a great insight ability. I think that seeing thorugh any jutsu is more important during a fight.

[monir]

You know what i want. I want some of those pills they have.
They got pills that can do anything for you.

But what i do want in the Naruto world would be the basics. The ninja know how and chakara control. Also the ability to not feel physical pain like they do in the anime. Also the to never have my bones break and extrude out of my skin just like naruto. ANd no visible damage.

But what i really want is an anime babe!!!!!
heheh :heh:

Am i asking for too much?
What a coincidence...It is as if you have copied of my list for Santa..:D

[Paiser]

santa: ohoho marry thanks giving!
And you 2 have been 2 naughty this year so you cant get any of them!!!! MAUAHHAHAHA

Santa's are evil... they know wut you want! THEY KNOW!!!! AND HE WONT MAKE IT COME TRUE!!!

[raikage]

Neji's ability is actually a little bit more advanced. He not only see the main chakra points but also see the sub points which are connected to the main points and Neji can disrupt the chakra flow by attacking those subpoints with his unique ability..Now with my amaturish skill using Byukugan, i will just try to punch out those main-points in the chakra flow, and I dont have to be Neji to do that...:D

You can TRY, but you can't do it...

The Sharingan lets you copy ninjutsu [well-established]. It does NOT, however, allow you to copy taijutsu JUST LIKE THAT. Otherwise, Sasuke would have been able to use the Lotus anytime he wanted to. He 'borrowed' the kick from Rock Lee, but couldn't do the rest. If he tried to copy Neji's open-handed combat, he couldn't do it very well. He doesn't know how to flow his chakra into his enemy (and the Sharingan can't show you that one), and he definitely can't hit the chakra holes. I don't care what you say, he CAN'T. He'd just be poking blindly.

'But he can copy ninjutsu, so he must be able to copy taijutsu too, since it's simpler!'
Nope. How does a ninja perform jutsu? Hand seals, right? Easy to copy, doesn't require a high degree of dexterity or precision the way open-hand does. If your left hand is a little bit off, it doesn't really matter.

Plus, the Sharingan's greatest strength can also be a bit of a weakness. Knowing ten thousand techniques is cool, but knowledge ≠superiority.

Many of the most effective (real-life) fighting systems have only a few moves. Kakashi KNOWS a thousand jutsu. He is not the MASTER of a thousand jutsu. There's a difference. It's like being a yellow belt in four martial arts instead of a master at one.

Plus, the Hyuga use tai-chi! Can't disrespect tai-chi!

[Dorfl]

That Gentle Fist taijutsu stuff would be great in real life. Your prof pisses you off? Go, smile, shake his hand, stop his fricking heart. WAHAHAHAHAAAA!! Your boss is giving your a hard time? Bump into him, give him enough diarrhoea to kill an elephant. GWOHOHOHOHOHOHO!! I'd definitely go for the Byakugan, those evil profs need to be taught a good lesson. :fingers:

[GUTB_]

Nah, I would just hit the Inner Coils and crush his internal organs. Again, that would be cool and could serve as an answer to most of life's problems.

Cop pulls you over for speading. Touch.

Bullies pick a fight. Touch.

Dog craps on carpet. Touch.

Cashier short-changes you. Touch.

Girlfriend pisses you off. Threaten to touch.

[Paiser]

Believe you?? Why not i can believe you....

Your right too raikage... Kakashi doesnt master them but does it very well for "that" time being where he has to use sharingarin. But Sasuke he is using it different... he is adapting to it and converting the tecniques to his own likings... like the lion combo...

Oh yea... Sasuke probally could do the first Locus if he had the chance to see it... so far in the anime, sasuke never saw Lee use Locus... Close but he didnt see it... thats why he saw the opening of the locus but didnt see the full version so he just convert wut ever he saw and called the Lion Combo!

Oops did i mention??? If Sasuke did had the chance seen Lee useing the Gate of Lifes and the Gate's he probally couldnt of copied it since its all mombo jumbo not doing with techniques or jutsu... but he would probally got to copy Locus if he see's it and if he does see's and use it... it would be his doom! Showing and explainin how Lee will get hurt permenatly when he uses it.... and when use it too far as everyone saw! Lee is broken... so thats probally one of the reason Sasuke NEVER sawed the Gate's or Locus... he would try to steal it and practice it... leading himself to his own doom!
So conclude there is a reason for everything.. thats moral... and why Sasuke never seen the FULL version of Locus

Itichi is strong isnt he?

[GUTB_]

Weeeellll, not quite. Sharingan doesn't make you stronger or faster, it just gives you a keen eye for detail and the ability to perfectly remember the techniques that you see. If, for example you are I had the Sharingan, we could look at Lotus once and then know how to exactly perform the move. But we still lack the physical ability to execute it, despite knowing how.

[MajinBuu]

Byakugan,Sharingan,neither... my mother was from the Hyuga Clan and my father from the Uchiha Clan so I have one Sharingan eye and the other with the Byakugan.Beware! :p

[archzai]

can someone explain wut mange sharingan is pls? i really wanna know n i always read about it... thx :)

[MajinBuu]

Well,if you read the manga you'll find out,I've forgot how to use spoilers so I can't answer you :(

[Hunter]

The mange Sharingan is the true power of the bloodline of the Uchiha.
It's a special genjutsu that only an other true sharingan's master (so not Kakashi who isn't an Uchiha nor Sasuke who doesn't masterize the sharingan) can challenge.
It's a genjutsu which cause a breakdown into the mind of the opponent by 'projecting' him into a virtual world where Itachi is the absolute master, all of space, all of time, everything is under his control.
He can torture you during days in your mind but in a split second in the reality if you look into his eyes.


edit : well all this thread is about spoiler ;)

[Leaf_Ninja]

Byakugan,Sharingan,neither... my mother was from the Hyuga Clan and my father from the Uchiha Clan so I have one Sharingan eye and the other with the Byakugan.Beware! :p

I thought the exact same thing /or what if the combination of both bloodlines creates a new badass type of eye

[bluedestiny]

SPOILER!!!


The mighty Kakashi was mentally destroyed when Itachi used the Mange Sharingan on him...

Sharingan can kick the byakugans ass... so far...

[Tboz]

Sharingan looks more interesting by far, you can copy moves with a turn of the eye. Add combination moves like "A Thousand Birds" or even Taijutsu, Sharingan looks to have more flexibility and potential.

Even Rock Lee is envious of Sasuke's bloodline. :p

[Dragon Flame]

rock lee is envious of every blood line, cuz he himself has to work so hard for what they get without trying

[Hunter]

Yeah even if I think that the Sharingan is better by far in the long run, you can't take the Byakugan slightly, it's the bloodline with the best abilities ever for the close combat.

[Stickels]

the Byakugan fighting style is teh shitty, I could whoop neji's ass if he attacked me with it.

[fenikkusu]

sasuke could of probably copied rock lee opening the gates because kakashi did, and when kakashi was climbing the mountain with 1 hand tied behind his back , he opened a gate i beleive.

but i do have a question, now u can tell how good the person is with the shirangan from the dots in the eyes, 3 is best, 2 is ok, 1 is not so good from what i can understand ( and have read). Now my question is are they born like that , and can't change it , or do they gain the dots from using the shirangan and mastering it? Kakashi and itachi's eyes have 3 dots, sasuke eyes have 2, for example

[Stickels]

Kakashi probably allready knew how to open the gate

[Hunter]

but i do have a question, now u can tell how good the person is with the shirangan from the dots in the eyes, 3 is best, 2 is ok, 1 is not so good from what i can understand ( and have read). Now my question is are they born like that , and can't change it , or do they gain the dots from using the shirangan and mastering it? Kakashi and itachi's eyes have 3 dots, sasuke eyes have 2, for example

Yeah it's all about masterize the Sharingan, look at the first time Sasuke use the Sharingan, he had 2 dots in one eyes and only one in the other.

[smee]

I still think if u think about it in real life byukugan is much more usefull.

[Dorfl]

I still think if u think about it in real life byukugan is much more usefull.
And if anyone disagrees, we just pat them on the back and smash their livers, ne? :p

[fenikkusu]

yea, i thought that Sasuke only had 1 dot in one of his eyes when he faught Haku but i didn't wanna get ripped if i was wrong , hahah, i think it was his left eye. thanks hunter

but i dont think kakashi could open the gates or he woudn't have pulled out his sharingan when he found out lee could . He wanted to copy lee opening the gates , but maybe he did know how to open the 1st gate if that is what yur trying to say, but he deffinatly couldn't open up to 5 gates cuz he wanted to copy rock lee doing it

[Stickels]

or maybe he pulled out his sharingan eye so he could keep up with how fast he knew lee was about to start moving

[Kakashi Sensei]

Hehe... just made this. In the folder you can see my own rendering of Byakaringan. It's not very good, though...

http://community.webshots.com/user/brumby2007

*I just posted it at 5:15, so it may take a while to actually appear.

[SnowBoarder]

Definatly Byakugon. In the real world, the sharingan has almost no advantages while the Byakugon would be extremely useful. I could use the the Byakugon to look at the answer sheets of all tests that i take, see who i hate is coming my way when they are about 2 miles away so i could go in another direction, be able to see where traffic jams are so i could go in another direction (not that i can drive or nething but still i wont get stuck with my mom yelling at all the cars to hurry up), look through things such as walls, boxes, clothes (cough* cough*), and and I could always be able to see where everyone is durring things like sports. Since I heard this question and now that i thought about it, I really want the Byakugon!!!!!!

[fenikkusu]

no , i think he did it cuz he wanted to copy the gates opoeningbut maybe u r right , what does any1 else think

but yea, to the question of the post, i think i would like the kyubi if i had to choose, i would take what naruto has , and have the power of a demon...sounds good to me as long as i can control it...but also if i had to choose form those 2 , i would take sharingan. i was reading a post the other day and 2 people where argueing about which was better sharingan or byukugan and a guy was saying any byukugan user could beat any sharingan user, even sum1 like itachi (which is completly wrong), but i'm not saying either is better or worse. Its like argueing what martial arts style is better, it just deppends on the fighter, who can make it work for them the best.

but Kakashi did say that the uchiha clan was konoha's most powerful clan

[fenrihr]

definitely byakugan in real world.... oh yeah....

and if you ever turned to a life of crime you could crack safes like opening a door... plus you could see if anyone was walking around.... and if it's worth it before you set foot inside... yeah.... byakugan would be good.

[smee]

yeah i mean i think the byukugan is better than sharingan but can neji beat itachi? no way. but i still think that byukugan is better, think about how good u could be at sports if u could see 360 degrees and predict things before they happen.

[Hunter]

You can't predict anything with the Byakugan it's an abilitie of the sharingan.

And I think the Sharingan is really far better in the real world.
Byakugan : see at 360°, excellent vision at long range and 'X-ray' vision.
Sharingan : can copy any skill, hypnotized and mess up with the mind of anyone, 'slow down', analyze, copy and predict any moves.

The sharingan has much more advantage than the byakugan in a world without chakra.

[aFlipGuy]

both eyes are capable of many things.......in a world w/out chakra is also a world w/out ninjas fighting eachother, how are u gonna fight mike tyson w/ copying his skillz??? i dunno hard to argue w/ this one is better than the other when we havent really seen a byakugan master( i dont think hinata's dad is a master, just an elite byakugan user) unless they show neji's long lost super genius brother or sumtin but i dont think this is ever gonna happen.... maybe itachi's leader is a long lost byakugan nin ^_^ hey it could happen ^_^ hehehehehehehe then u will all bow down to the veiny eyes u swirly eye worshipers ^_^ j/k

[smee]

yeah, neji's bound to have an older brother named Nejitachi or sumthin. hey thats pretty cool, Nejitachi.

[Lee-pimp]

the sharingan is better all around in practical life
1)school you can attomatically memorize everything
2)it just plain looks cool i mean seriously red and black eyes
and 3) byakugan would look weird with the veins and such

[raikage]

Nejitachi = many of (neji) !?!

Um..I don't think you can actually SEE the future with the Sharingan. I'm trying to remember an instance where that might have happened (either in the anime or manga), but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

Plus, I don't think the Uchiha are necessarily the strongest. They ARE/were the most feared, but fear ≠ power. The fear comes from
Orginally posted by kabuto

THe only reason that its so feared in the naruto world is because a lot of clans and individuals work extremely hard to master their own unique move and secrets. While the Byakugan can see the secrets, the sharingan can copy it right on the spot which is much more devestating.

Who would want their family secret unveiled in such an easy way?


So, in a sense, the Sharingan can be considered better because the enemy will not/should not use their strongest jutsu's unless absolutely necessary.

Plus, like I said earlier, the Rolodex of jutsu's can work against you in a combat situation. Hmm, should I use water cannon or fireball? Spider web might be good, too, or maybe I should use the bunshin first to distract my opponent. Add twenty more jutsu's to this process, and you might hesitate a little too long in the heat of battle. Probably not good.

[GUTB_]

Sharingan is more advanced, but still, it has its drawbacks; it uses a lot of strength so you can't keep it up for a very long time, while Bakyugan can be used for extended periods without trouble it seems. Also, Bakyugan can still fix many of life's problems:

Cop pulls you over for speading. Touch.

Bullies pick a fight. Touch.

Dog craps on carpet. Touch.

Cashier short-changes you. Touch.

Teacher bitches you out over an assaignment. Touch.

Girlfriend pisses you off. Threaten to touch.

And you can be super-itimidating, too: "Stomach, lungs, or heart? Which one do you want to lose?"

[Hunter]

Nejitachi = many of (neji) !?!

Neji (Hyuuga genious) + Itachi (absolute genious of the Uchiha, Sasuke's brother)

Um..I don't think you can actually SEE the future with the Sharingan. I'm trying to remember an instance where that might have happened (either in the anime or manga), but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

Of course you can't, the sharingan doesn't see into the futur, but it allow you to perfectly understand how your opponent moves and fight.

Plus, I don't think the Uchiha are necessarily the strongest. They ARE/were the most feared, but fear ≠ power. The fear comes from.

Seriously, Kakashi said that the Uchiha clan was the strongest, the 3rd said it, oro said it, Zabuza too, all the arena of the last chounin test became mad to wait the fight of an Uchiha.
Against a true sharingan's master, genjutsu is useless and ninjutsu is almost useless.
The only thing which work against the sharingan is the Taijutsu but even with that you must never ever look into the sharingan eyes during all the fight. Something that only Gai, the best Taijutsu Specialist in konoha and probably in the Naruto universe, can do.
But even with that, he's just at the level of Kakashi who isn't even a true Sharingan's master.

Plus, like I said earlier, the Rolodex of jutsu's can work against you in a combat situation. Hmm, should I use water cannon or fireball? Spider web might be good, too, or maybe I should use the bunshin first to distract my opponent. Add twenty more jutsu's to this process, and you might hesitate a little too long in the heat of battle. Probably not good.

lol yeah this must be a udge probleme for Kakashi who knows more than 1000 jutsu
or the 3rd who knew absolutely all the jutsu existing in Konoha :p


Sharingan is more advanced, but still, it has its drawbacks; it uses a lot of strength so you can't keep it up for a very long time, while Bakyugan can be used for extended periods without trouble it seems.

No it's wrong both the sharingan and the byakugan is jutsu which use chakra when you use them, that's why Neji turn it off when he doesn't use it.

[Kabuto]

All you guys are idiots

The only REAL way to impress the ladies is not by protecting them but by Protecting them to an extent and pleasuring them!!

So for real life i would want nothing more then to have mastered the Multi-size No jutsu.
I can make [ANY body part i want as big as i want. Also some soldier pills to go with this jutsu and i'll be the ultimate guy!!!!!!

hahahahaha

bow down to me :bow:


:joke:

[smee]

i think Kabuto needs a tad bit of help....

[Kabuto]

You know Genius and insanity are on the same level. ;)

[Mr. Bushido]

we're talking only about the eyes and not Hyuga ability itself

Uh... wat the characters say doesnt mean its always true
Neji's uncle said "Remember the Hyuga is the strongest in Konohoa"
The Hyuga secret is so "secret" that if ure not the first born child u need a mark on ur head, and if ure the son/daughter of this person u get one too. So when u die secret will not be passed.

We've seen the strongest Hyuga, but all we saw him do was kaiten. We really havent seen the best of ITachi either, so dont compare the BEST of the BEST

Sarutobi is not Hyuga or Uchia. but he's the STRONGEST. Does this mean his clan is? no

in the real world u dont fight everyday. so dont use that as an argument...
some ppl believe that chakra does exist "chii" so dont disrespect their beliefs. by continually saying it doesnt exist. In fact the chakra channels are from this belief that our "life-force" is channeled around our organs and veins. Its a chinese belief, and led to tai chi, acupuncture, and pressure points. Seeing how these are so successful, u never know if these are true. (remember these were all done BEFORe medical science)

I would rather have Lee's goken or Kage Bunshin. With Lee's speed i dont need a car really. im not gonna be late to class.... id be faster than sound.
need money? break down door, take everything leave. so fast the cameras would break.
ppl bothering u? u can punch them without them noticing.
go against gravity and newton's law by kicking at a guy and keep going up!
run around make sonic booms
join every sports team, win it all.

Kage bunshin.... so many reasons.

[fenikkusu]

yea, when Kakashi was talking with zabuza the 2nd time at the bridge, he told him that sasuke was from the most powerful clan from konoha , and zabuza knew that he was talking about uchiha. BUt i dont think u would have that much of a problem thinkin of a move to do even if u have mastered 1000 moves, kakashi so far seems to have certian moves that he likes to do. and the human mind works very fast , and for him to have survived he should know what works and in what combination and what other jutsu's certian moves would work best against

Sharingan cant see the future it was just kakashi messing with zabuza's mind because he was coping his movements exactly , even his vocal movements

but in the naruto world , i would still choose kyubi demon inme if i could , hahaa

[Tboz]

rock lee is envious of every blood line, cuz he himself has to work so hard for what they get without trying True true, but I figured for Rock Lee, Sharingan will be more useful than Byukugan.

Byukugen works best if you combine it with Hyuga clan's Gentle Fist style Taijitsu. And to do that, you have to inject your own chakra into your opponents body. Rock Lee doesn't have the chakra to optimise that heritage.

As mentioned, a Sharingan user's worst foe is a Taijutsu specialist. If you know Taijutsu too, the things you can do will be limitless, you can end up quite invincible... :p

[archzai]

I thot Kakashi said Lee is also a genius... to be able to open the four gates...

btw... if u open all 8 gates do u die right after?

okok... finally... wait... Itachi whoops Kakashi? does Kakashi die? Thankyou Manga readers... you guys are a lifesaver :)... i would read it too if i could... but dunno where to buy n i dont think my parents will pay for shonenjump...

[Tboz]

Gai sees Lee as a genius of hard work and dedication, and it was these qualities that makes Lee such an outstanding ninja.

In fact, Lee can open up five of the gates and he did that in the battle against Gaara, causing some serious damage to Lee's body. Although the user will be gaining inhuman speed, opening the gates actually post an enormous stress on the body and legs. Gai also did mentioned that opening all eight of the gates is sucidal and will kill the user.

[fenikkusu]

Itachi doesn't kill kakashi , but does smake him and a few other junins around, i forgot who was with kakashi...but also i was sayin that having 1000 moves woudln't be to much of a bother for kakashi, but also kakashi hasn't always had the sharingan, and he has always been a very powerful ninja , being chuunin at age 7 i think it was

and chi or "ki" what ever u want to call it is real... it is scientificly proven. they tested normal people and there electrical field and then tested chigong masters and they could manipulate there electrical fields... and also wher able to take temps. to near freezing and also raise temps very high... they used a heat sinsitive camera, it was all really impresive... and where able to protect ther bodys by manipulating "chi" to certian parts of ther body

[smee]

yeah i think chi might be real to, we just havent found an extremely mind boggling way to use it to our advantage yet, like when u see a guy get punched in the neck by 4 different people at the same time, theres sumthin else involved there, thats not normal that it hardly affects him at all when he is hit.

[vinhdang]

strong brainwashing capabilities


Strong brainwashing capabilities? When was this?

[DontEatGrandma]

in the manga, where itachi fucks with kakashi and also sasuke.

i totally believe in chi/ki/chakra whatever you like. Thats what acupuncture focuses on, releases blockages of the energy so that the flow in your body is more even and healthy.

[Kabuto]

Ok guys i don't know about CHI or Chakara begin real. BUt i do know that we all have a healthy AURA GLOW. Every living thing on this planet has an Aura glow.

SOme guy in California invented a camera/camcorder that can see this glow around your body. THis is important because, lets say, When you have a elbow problem or a stomach problem the aura around that area won't have an healthy glow to it. With this device doctors make extraordinary accurat dianosis when they examine you.

COOL HUH?

in the manga, where itachi fucks with kakashi and also sasuke.

i totally believe in chi/ki/chakra whatever you like. Thats what acupuncture focuses on, releases blockages of the energy so that the flow in your body is more even and healthy.
The reason behind accupunture isn't chi/ki or what ever your call it. But it stops your reflexes from happening by blocking/stoping info on a nerve.
Reflexes as you know doesn't need a brain to work. Most reflexes come from the nerve bundles in the spine. Thats why your knee goes up before you know it. Knee to spine is faster then knee to brain.
Hmm.... taking these psycology courses are benefitting.

[smee]

by the way, thanks to the mod who put [Spoilers] by this thread.

[Mr. Bushido]

Ok guys i don't know about CHI or Chakara begin real. BUt i do know that we all have a healthy AURA GLOW. Every living thing on this planet has an Aura glow.

SOme guy in California invented a camera/camcorder that can see this glow around your body. THis is important because, lets say, When you have a elbow problem or a stomach problem the aura around that area won't have an healthy glow to it. With this device doctors make extraordinary accurat dianosis when they examine you.

COOL HUH?


The reason behind accupunture isn't chi/ki or what ever your call it. But it stops your reflexes from happening by blocking/stoping info on a nerve.
Reflexes as you know doesn't need a brain to work. Most reflexes come from the nerve bundles in the spine. Thats why your knee goes up before you know it. Knee to spine is faster then knee to brain.
Hmm.... taking these psycology courses are benefitting.


Yea Chi isnt believed because acupuncture was proven to be involved with the nerves not a "life force"
but u have to remember the CHinese coupe of thousands of yrs ago did not know this. They really believed it to be a life force thing.

actually u have to know before ur knee goes up. Cuz u FEEL it first. our knowledge comes from the 5 senses, so if we sense it first then we know first.

y do ppl tie up POWs?? they can just use acupncture and stop movements in the limbs.

[Kabuto]

Yea Chi isnt believed because acupuncture was proven to be involved with the nerves not a "life force"
but u have to remember the CHinese coupe of thousands of yrs ago did not know this. They really believed it to be a life force thing.

actually u have to know before ur knee goes up. Cuz u FEEL it first. our knowledge comes from the 5 senses, so if we sense it first then we know first.

y do ppl tie up POWs?? they can just use acupncture and stop movements in the limbs.

Actually, when a doctor hits your knee. Your knee goes up before you even know or feel it.
Its a fact. You can have a doctor try it on you.

[shiznitty]

back to the discussion

sharingan, because it looks better than having blank eyes

[Kabuto]

back to the discussion

sharingan, because it looks better than having blank eyes

Not blank. But pale blue which is a pretty nice color.

[Mr. Bushido]

Actually, when a doctor hits your knee. Your knee goes up before you even know or feel it.
Its a fact. You can have a doctor try it on you.

i can do it to myself actually its not that hard. im saying u feel ur knee being hit before it goes up. As for ur leg going up before u realize... wait let me try. Yea ure right. i can feel myself hitting the knee, but the leg goes up like a sec before i realized it did.

some other things about chii/ki.
Haido Gumdo, there is an excercise where u put out a candle with a stick. u gently swing ur "sword" and stop above the fire and put it out. Sounds easy?? Its not, in fact its a test before u go up to the next belt (i forgot wat level)

[smee]

yeah i saw a video of that, its really cool.

[ri0]

I would rather choose the Byakugan... I didn´t get the point of the Mange Sharingan at all. Ninja are people trained in gen-, tai- and ninjutsu.
The Mange Sharingan only works if you´re looking in the opponents eyes. So why are the opponents of the Sharingan user not only looking at the chest or something. An elite-ninja like Orochimaru or even Kurenai and Asuma has to do such a thing.

[rEkKaShInObI]

You can cheat off of other people with a sharingan and possibly never get caught!

[m8-]

Sharingan, of course. Although it was said that Sharingan came from Byakugan, I think that Sharingan is way far better than Byakugan.

You could use the Byakugan only within 50 radius, imo, it's not that perfect.

The Sharingan isn't useless at all, and could be used any time, though, it's pretty damn though to control yourself and not copy everyone, like Kakashi did, and be hated for it

[Coder8]

Also we dont know what the ultimate Byakugan ability is...We know it does 360 degrees...but we know the sharingan can do the copy no jutsu crap
But what we dont know is what Manga like eye jutsu the byukagan can do if it can do any at all.

[Shadamehr]

I would rather choose the Byakugan... I didn´t get the point of the Mange Sharingan at all. Ninja are people trained in gen-, tai- and ninjutsu.
The Mange Sharingan only works if you´re looking in the opponents eyes. So why are the opponents of the Sharingan user not only looking at the chest or something. An elite-ninja like Orochimaru or even Kurenai and Asuma has to do such a thing.

No matter how good a ninja you are, it's an obvious disadvantage in a fight if the moment you see another person's eyes you lose. That's like saying fighting with one arm tied behind your back is no big deal to an elite-ninja, 'cuz they're quick enough to use the other hand for everything. A handicap is a handicap.

[Maxter]

They are both absolutely totally unbelievable cool, but I think I'd say... Byakugan. If you ask me again in about a week, I might change the answer (that's how I am ^_^) but right now, Byakugan just feels "coolest". 360 degrees eyesight is not bad. Seeing your opponents chakra holes can be a huge advantage too, even if you have to know how to fight Hyuga-style to really take advantage of it.

But then again, copying your enemies moves and having generally amazing sight isn't a bad shot either.... ^_^

[raikage]

No matter how good a ninja you are, it's an obvious disadvantage in a fight if the moment you see another person's eyes you lose. That's like saying fighting with one arm tied behind your back is no big deal to an elite-ninja, 'cuz they're quick enough to use the other hand for everything. A handicap is a handicap.

The Mange Sharingan isn't 'always-on'. It's unknown if it can be activated in a split-second or if it needs to be 'charged'.

Additionally, we don't know if it can be left on like the Sharingan.

If it takes 5 seconds to power up, and only lasts for a split-second during which you had better be looking into their eyes, then yeah...

[rEkKaShInObI]

No one has seen the full power of the sharingan yet, at the same time no one has seen the full power of the byakugan, so this really does make it hard to chose.

[Coder8]

ctually rekkashinobi from what we know,which is limited,We know of the Eye Jutsu involved with the sharingan. No reason to think it has other uses...or why didnt itachi use them?

[Hunter]

The Mange Sharingan isn't 'always-on'. It's unknown if it can be activated in a split-second or if it needs to be 'charged'.

Additionally, we don't know if it can be left on like the Sharingan.

If it takes 5 seconds to power up, and only lasts for a split-second during which you had better be looking into their eyes, then yeah...

Personally I think that it can be done in a split second, the two times Itachi used it against Sasuke he just blinked his eyes and it was the same when he used the Amaterasu, the wall of flesh of Jiraiya was annihilated into ashes instantaneously.

[rEkKaShInObI]

Personally I think that it can be done in a split second, the two times Itachi used it against Sasuke he just blinked his eyes and it was the same when he used the Amaterasu, the wall of flesh of Jiraiya was annihilated into ashes instantaneously.

IS ITACHI THAT DAMN SCARY?!?!?!

An ability is as good as its (IR)RESPONSIBLE user.

[raikage]

Personally I think that it can be done in a split second, the two times Itachi used it against Sasuke he just blinked his eyes and it was the same when he used the Amaterasu, the wall of flesh of Jiraiya was annihilated into ashes instantaneously.

Nah, when he uses the jutsu he closes his eyes for at least 2 panels.

vs Kakashi (especially obvious) - he tells Kakashi + co. he will show them the power of the bloodline and then closes his eyes for a few pages.

[Shadamehr]

The Mange Sharingan isn't 'always-on'. It's unknown if it can be activated in a split-second or if it needs to be 'charged'.

Additionally, we don't know if it can be left on like the Sharingan.

If it takes 5 seconds to power up, and only lasts for a split-second during which you had better be looking into their eyes, then yeah...

Itachi's not stupid. He says outright his "Tsukiyomi" technique cannot be beaten, and that nobody without Uchiha blood can defeat him. If it were not practical to catch an opponent with it, then he would not be so confident. It stands to reason that it does not take long to activate, and the only last a split-second, otherwise he would know that it's not that useful a technique.


Nah, when he uses the jutsu he closes his eyes for at least 2 panels.

vs Kakashi (especially obvious) - he tells Kakashi + co. he will show them the power of the bloodline and then closes his eyes for a few pages.


It doesn't always take two panels. In the flashback, when he does it to Sasuke, he only closes his eyes for one panel. This could be a long time, or it could be an instant.

[Loki]

Sharigan Rocks - just simply to learn new Gen#s in split secs hell yeah you know its better than looking like your eyes are about to pop out :P

[Unidentified]

I say the Byukagan. The move Itachi had done was probably the limits of the sharingan, he could barely use it that much, so if there is a stronger move which there probably isn't it might just take out all there chakra once done. Also Itachi used a Gen "super move", Nin "super move", so there probably is a Taijutsu move and that's it to the sharingan.

Byukagan users don't even have to look at the opponents high, they can look right past it and look at the chakra things, so it probably won't work against them. We haven't even seen a Hyuga hihger than a genin, we only seen 1 move of the cheif Hyuga and he took out a whole mess of ninjas in a huge radius.

[Revan]

If one considers the Uchiha reputation...

When Kakashi said that Sasuke is from Konoha's most superior clan, Zabuza knew that he meant the Uchiha.

Orochimaru has hand-picked Sasuke out of all the possible body donors, which says a lot considering that Orochimaru had no qualms about fighting Sandaime. Even after Naruto has displayed the great power of Kyubi twice in front of Orochimaru, he's still intent on Sasuke.

During the chuunin exam finals, everyone was way more interrested in seeing Sasuke than Neji.

Itachi's mastery of the Sharingan speaks for itself... even Orochimaru fears him.


The choice seems obvious.
Plus, the Sharingan definately looks much cooler!

[raikage]

If one considers the Uchiha reputation...

When Kakashi said that Sasuke is from Konoha's most superior clan, Zabuza knew that he meant the Uchiha.

Orochimaru has hand-picked Sasuke out of all the possible body donors, which says a lot considering that Orochimaru had no qualms about fighting Sandaime. Even after Naruto has displayed the great power of Kyubi twice in front of Orochimaru, he's still intent on Sasuke.

During the chuunin exam finals, everyone was way more interrested in seeing Sasuke than Neji.

Itachi's mastery of the Sharingan speaks for itself... even Orochimaru fears him.


The choice seems obvious.
Plus, the Sharingan definately looks much cooler!

When Kakashi and Zabuza were speaking, Kakashi finished the sentence. Zabuza could have been about to say "Hyuuga" (No, I don't really believe that, either.) :D

Orochimaru has picked Sasuke out because the Sharingan fits his particular wants and needs, not because it's automatically better. Someone like Gai or Asuma might prefer the Byakugan.

During the Chuunin finals - Sasuke is the last Uchiha. Being able to see something for the final time is far more exciting than seeing something you can probably see again.
Chicks really dig you when you're the last of something.

[Chibi Dude]

I think sharingan is more of a lady killer, but byakugan is so amazing you can nail people out of match in minutes, or if you just want to toy with them you can close all there chakura flow.

[Isis&Osiris]

So wut would u rather have and why? Byukugan or Sharingan? I would rather have byukugan cuz u get a 360 degree view and it looks pretty darn cool. sharingan looks cool too but i think byukugan is more usefull.

in the chapters, it explains the limitations and how the far the sight is, which isn't much. He actually ended up using his chakra as motion sensor detector. :D

his 64-hit combo was ineffective with the ability to see the chakra system because he couldn't pierce through special armor of his opponent.

I like to have both. hehe I'll be a mutant with four eyes.

[Xarrais]

Hmm... THis I think depends on r "which would you rather have in real life" or "which would you rather have if you lived in the world of naruto"

In real life the byukugan wins no contest hehe , since your not going to be copying many justu around here =).

In the naruto world it is a closer battle. Byukugan comes with the most devestating taijustu attacks that can kill anyone in a single landed blow to the chest no matter how strong your oppenent was.

Being able to copy any tech instantly is also very good for building up your abilities quickly

I picked Byukugan. Using the taijustu that comes along with this you can take down ANYONE (they even say so in the series "you can't train your internal body" it would just be a matter of building up your speed or binding techs to make sure you could get your 1 solid blow. Plus my fav naruto CHA has these eyes hehe

[PinkSpider]

there's almost an equal amount of people who would like to have the byukugan or the Sharingan. For me, even though i really like Neji, I would choose the Sharingan.
At first i would have thought that the Sharingan is not very original since it can only copy other people's skills. But after seeing kakashi and itachi's skills in using their sharingan, I realised that there's so much more the Sharingan can accomplished. Moreover, it would be really scary if anything u are able to do can be copied flawlessly with the Sharingan, especially if u are a heavy jutsu-user. (like orochimaru)
Moreover the Sharingan looks more cool! (people should start producing sharingan contacts) And the best best part, i am sure it can help me a lot in my exams for the next two weeks. ^_-

[Eshu]

Presumeably, as far as other applications go, wouldnt' the Hyuga power be able to heal people, or at least assit in it, considering they could affect the inner organs? I'd assume they dont' HAVE to crush them. Also they could probably affect things other then purely inner organs, since the coil system runs throught your entire body. You could blind someone with a touch, or render them deaf. Hell, if everyone was considering what you could do to show off to the opposite gender, you could tap them on the shoulder and have them horny as you wish.

on a vauge off note, since they said that they can use the points to open the chakra holes wider, i wonder if they could 'turn up' Lee's lotus ablities, in essence allowing him to pull more power out from himself.

The counter point being, the Uchina ablity and the Hyuga ablity balence each other out in a way, since as soon as you are in arms reach of a Hyuga, they can drop you, and a uchina can simply throw ninjitsu at you from a distance. There is also the fact you have to look someone in the eye for menge sharringan to work, and the 360 vision that the hyuga eye has probably would allow them to avoid being caught.

[rock and stones]

why doesnt itachi just get rid of sasuke? i mean if i killed my family, i wouldnt want an irritating little bro to keep hounding me later in life. so i say, just get rid of sasuke. :topicoff:

back to byakugan vs sharingan, i'd say to each his own. it boils down to the user of both the abilities. one thing i'd like to add is, having sharingan doesnt make you god. it only gives you a cheap advantage over your opponent.

[Youko Recca]

Okay,would Hiachi be able to go toe to toe with Itachi?

[Muad'Dib]

There is also the fact you have to look someone in the eye for menge sharringan to work, and the 360 vision that the hyuga eye has probably would allow them to avoid being caught.

I think that very point could mean that the Byukugan would almost invariably be "caught" with the mange sharingan. Because maybe it's not just "looking" into the eye, but just "seeing" it. If that were the case, any Hyuga is automatically screwed.

[Nine Devil]

Okay,would Hiachi be able to go toe to toe with Itachi?

Not even in his dreams:)

[Kayess]

Personally, I believe in being my own man. As such, I do not find the "stealing techniques" from others a worthy or honourable means of becoming good. That being said, I think the superior perception on Byakugan would be more for me.

It is one thing to defeat someone with their own techniques... but it is entirely different, and in my opinion better, if defeat them using your own intellegence and techniques.

In closing:
Sharingan = Lazy Man's Bloodline
Byakugan = Real Man's Bloodline ;)

Btw: This is an extremely Bias post, so do not pay attention if it offends you ;)

[Xarrais]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Youko Recca
Okay,would Hiachi be able to go toe to toe with Itachi?

Not even in his dreams



Well Itachi was a genius of geniuses. Hiachi is just an avg genius. Neji is a genius of genius but he is still just a kid by the time he is Itachi's age I would imagine him being able to fight him pretty well toe to toe.

[Hunter]

Well Itachi was a genius of geniuses. Hiachi is just an avg genius. Neji is a genius of genius but he is still just a kid by the time he is Itachi's age I would imagine him being able to fight him pretty well toe to toe.


Neji has about the same age that Itachi had when he obliterated all the Uchiha.
Neji's strong, but he just doesn't play in the same class than Itachi.

[Xarrais]

Neji has about the same age that Itachi had when he obliterated all the Uchiha.
Neji's strong, but he just doesn't play in the same class than Itachi.


watch the fight neji had with naruto and hiachi's reactions. Neji has already surpassed him and he knew it if neji wanted to kill the whole clan as itachi did to his I don't doubt he could. (well if it wasn't for the seal on his head)

[Shadamehr]

watch the fight neji had with naruto and hiachi's reactions. Neji has already surpassed him and he knew it if neji wanted to kill the whole clan as itachi did to his I don't doubt he could. (well if it wasn't for the seal on his head)

Wow, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. Hiashi reacted the way he did because Neji was so good FOR HIS AGE, and because he discovered the two secret jutsus of the clan on his own without being taught them. He is still nowhere near Hiashi's skill. Hiashi is one of the top jounin in the village. Neji is nowhere near even normal jounin level.

To claim that he could wipe out the rest of the Hyuga is spot on wrong.

[Muad'Dib]

Had Neji been from the head branch, and had his training not have been restricted as it was, perhaps he would be closer to Itachi.

[Nine Devil]

watch the fight neji had with naruto and hiachi's reactions. Neji has already surpassed him and he knew it if neji wanted to kill the whole clan as itachi did to his I don't doubt he could. (well if it wasn't for the seal on his head)

you go watch that episode again but this time read what it says. Neji is nowhere near a normal jounin and don't even think being at the level of Hiashi.

Had Neji been from the head branch, and had his training not have been restricted as it was, perhaps he would be closer to Itachi.

No.

[Kayess]

Neji is nothing compared to Itachi when he killed off the Uchiha clan. No one shown so far can compare to Itachi's strength, and I question if even Sandaime in his prime could stand toe-to-toe with Itachi now. Then again, we do not know much about either's abilities. We know Itachi is feared by Oro.. and that the jounin of Kohona do not even stand the slightest chance against him. All we know about Sandaime in his prime is that he was the strongest Hokage ever, and that is not to say he was the strongest ninja.

When it all boils down, Neji is a genius but he is not at the freaky genius level of Itachi.

In closing: Itachi > All

[Muad'Dib]

No.

Why on earth do you think he wouldn't be stronger had he been taught the secrets of the Hyuuga clan rather than learned them on his own? Learning them on his own undoubtedly delayed his progression in the mastery of the Byukugan. I wasn't saying he would be Itachi level, just closer to Itachi level--meaning, he would have been stronger.

[raikage]

Neji has about the same age that Itachi had when he obliterated all the Uchiha.
Neji's strong, but he just doesn't play in the same class than Itachi.

Itachi (presumably) had the benefit of his clan training him.
Neji...did not.
Could Itachi have figured out how to use the clan secrets on his own? Even if he self-taught himself from a scroll, it's still more than Neji had.

13 y.o. Itachi is still stronger than 13 y.o. Neji, though. No question about that.

[frogzila]

Yeah, and just the fact that the sharingan is better than the Byakugan makes Itachi even more awesome.

Personally, I think the Sharingan is way better, because it lets you learn all sorts of awesome moves almost instantly. The Byakugan lets you see a lot more stuff, but if you don't have the moves to defend against it, seeing things doesn't help you.

Having a ninja at the level of strength Itachi has plus the Sharingan is like having a nuclear weapon with lazers attached to it.

[Nine Devil]

Why on earth do you think he wouldn't be stronger had he been taught the secrets of the Hyuuga clan rather than learned them on his own? Learning them on his own undoubtedly delayed his progression in the mastery of the Byukugan. I wasn't saying he would be Itachi level, just closer to Itachi level--meaning, he would have been stronger.

Oh sorry i got you wrong anyways if that would happen Neji gots a bit stronger but still:

Itachi:1000
Neji(now):8

Itachi:1000
Neji(if he was from the main family):10

:)

[Kazukijen]

The true power of the Sharingan is not to see the future, but to make it.
The true power of the Byakugan is to know everything in the present .
IMO there are better powers. I'd rather be a master of Shadow Imitation, for nothing else except the immense comedy value.
*walks through park*
*sees person you hate*
Kage Mane no jutsu!
*runs other person into trees even after they lose consciousness*
Before any pedants say that I would get hurt too, I won't, because I'm smart enough to release the technique just before he hits the tree. :cool:

[niidel]

I don't remember WHO said, but somebody did say that you'd be able to dodge bullets if you had sharingan - well that's obviously not true. Even if you can see the bullet coming your way, you still have to be fast enough to move out of it's way (And as we have seen, Sasuke can't dodge Lee's kick when they do battle for the first time).

And I have the byakugan: http://noodle.stc.cx/kolmaskerta/niidelbyakugan.jpg ! I swear that's not edited, except for adding the subs :P

[Black Jaggan]

Everybody seems to forget a big point here:

The Sharingan looks a lot cooler! I'd rather have nice red spining eyes, than white see through eyes with big ugly looking veins. I'm mean....The Sharingan looks cool, but the Byakugan just looks plain scary.

BTW: Hilarious pic niidel! Really funny....but the popping veins need a bit of practice ^.~

[nh1]

To the Hiashi vs Itachi...
I don't see why they shouldn't be able to fight toe to toe, I really don't know what can actually pwn Kai-ten... The fact that Hiashi can see 350-360 degrees, can either be a disadvantage or an advantage against the Mange Sharingan... I don't know how he would avoid the eye, but he wouldn't stare directly into it...

I like the byuakugan and would prefer it over the sharingan, but only because I would get free porn :D

[Muad'Dib]

Since the sharingan evolved from the byukugan, it could be (just a hypothesis here) that an advanced byukugan user could have some immunity from some of the sharingan's effects. The genetic code between the families must be similar, after all.

[Youko Recca]

For staters.....Kyubi > Itachi so he isn't the strongest in Naruto :heh: .Second,I say they take Itachi and seal him up inside someone...that seems like the only method.

[rock and stones]

I like the byuakugan and would prefer it over the sharingan, but only because I would get free porn

i'm quite sure byakugan doesnt allow you to see past just one layer. it works by seeing through the whole object.

or maybe its just a different evolution... THEN it would be cool.

i'd still prefer to have sharingan only cos it doesnt freak ppl out....as much

this is probably a stupid question but my curiosity is killing me.
do the users of sharingan and byakugan see in colour or monotone? i would think that for sharingan users, it would be in colour before activation. wat about byakugans??

[nh1]

i'm quite sure byakugan doesnt allow you to see past just one layer. it works by seeing through the whole object.
I think they see what they want to see. I don't think they're only able to see the chakra and everything else is just horizon (would that too be blue?).

[Bloodstainsfade]

I think Sharigan, becuase if you memorize approximately where the chakra points are, the Sharigan would let you see where they move from when they attack. Therefore, you have Sharigan, and byakugan... Not to mention, freakish veins popping out of your head, or fricking awesome red eyes... Not to mention you can make them spin around, imagine the fun to be had with your friends and that...

[Murugan]

So wut would u rather have and why? Byukugan or Sharingan? I would rather have byukugan cuz u get a 360 degree view and it looks pretty darn cool. sharingan looks cool too but i think byukugan is more usefull.

No way byakugan is more usefull.........Really , i vited Sharingan cuz it has so many advantages.......You can copy almost all jutsus......you can predict movements.......you can hypnotise.......well, really, Im stikking with Sharingan

:)

[Soju]

I think Sharigan, becuase if you memorize approximately where the chakra points are

I don't really think you can memorize approximately where the tenketsu are. Besides, it's a different location for every person you fight, and if you do your job right, you should only ever have to fight someone seriously once.

i'm quite sure byakugan doesnt allow you to see past just one layer. it works by seeing through the whole object.

I also think that this is not true. In one of the anime sequences in the Chuunin exam we see Hinata using the byakugan to scout. It looks more like it's continuously moving through the layers, but you have the option for staying at one layer; otherwise, there would be no way to differentiate between one object and the next if you just see totally through them at all times.

So yeah, I think Neji gets free porn.

In real life Mike Tyson haven't any chakra flow, so touch him with your fingers will just irritate him
But the eye jutsu things require chakra... so that means if you were able to use the bloodline limit then YOU must have chakra... not to mention that most martial arts insist everybody has chakra, or something exactly like it.

[Palani]

Sharingan over Byukugan for sure. Why you ask, eeeh, Red Eyes anyone.

[rock and stones]

we havent seen a fight between neji and sasuke (sharingan vs byakugan) and its been said that sharingan evolved from the byakugan bloodline. if so, shouldn't they counter each other seeing that they were from the same family. i'm just guessing

[tramadrama]

I would rather have byukugan cuz u get a 360 degree view and it looks pretty darn cool. sharingan looks cool too but i think byukugan is more usefull.

Got to go with Sharingan, college can go a whole lot quicker this way lol. The truth about byakugan..View this at your own risk. IT IS A SPOILER!!!!
Byakugan is NOT 360°. It's 359°. If anyone viewing this is a pure anime watcher and not manga/anime. Judging how far the manga is, i'd say we got another year for you to see what i mean lol.

[Nine Devil]

oh you mean the blindspot ;) believe me Hunter-san knows it :heh:

[tramadrama]

oh you mean the blindspot ;) believe me Hunter-san knows it :heh:
Yeppers!!!

[nh1]

Though it's not exactly 359, just less than 360...

Red Eyes anyone.
Are you mocking Lst2touchdasky? 'Cause if you are: :heh:

[EbonySeraphim]

No one has really fully posted on the capabilities of both. First of all, I hope this isn't really off topic, but I might as well say that this is really Uchiha vs Hyuuga. Every move either clan does that is unique to them is related to or developed by their abilities.

I'll address the easier (and "weaker" IMO) of the two first:

Byakugan - This ability is described IN FULL in the anime. We know it provides roughtly 360 degree sight. It provides the ability to see through solid objects and see chakra flow and tenketsu's on another's body. The Hyuuga are also capable of releasing chakra better from all over their body and enables them to do Kaiten. Another top level technique of this clan is the Hakke-Sho move which hits all 64-tenketsu and completely shuts off any normal ninja's chakra.

First let me say, the advantages of the Hyuuga abilities are quite obvious, which is what seems to attract many of its fanboys.

But then we see that "obvious advantages" turn into "huge pitholes." See behind you? Wow, that seems really advantageous!!! First of all, consider that no other ability but Hyuuga that we know of allows people to see behind them. What on earth makes this a huge disadvantage on the battlefield? Character's in Naruto's world definitely have a sense for what is behind them already. Regardless of if they can directly see behind them or not, it is shown directly that simple attacks coming from behind are easily detected by people without Hyuuga abilities. For one, remember Naruto not being able to get Kakashi from behind. There are PLENY of other examples of characters that dodge attacks coming from behind, so 360 degrees of sight is not a clear advantage. Beyond the 360 degree vision, we can generally infer that Byakugan gives some increased direct vision of seeing fast moving targets like Lee. Of course Sharingan has the same advantage too so this isn't something it has that is unique.

Also, the tenketsu. The direct application of seeing them is to use them against the opponent. That obviously requires the Hyuuga member to go upclose and complete outclass the person who they are fighting against in hand to hand combat. I doubt Neji could easily hit Lee or even Sasuke's tenketsu's. Even if they aren't as fast, they are defensive enough to back off from something blatantly going for it. And for Hiashi's level, same thing if he were to fight Kakashi or Gai. Basically, in order for this "advantage" of the Hyuuga clan to be exploited, we see that they have to definitely outclass generally who they are fighting against. Another suggested application is seeing how a justsu works? I really doubt this one. Although they might see how the chakra flows and is converted to some sort of energy or attack, they certainly can't reproduce it or forsee what could happen.

Kaiten - as far as absolute defenses go. You can find more information in the battle of the absolute defenses thread, but I'll talk about it a little bit here. I won't disagree that this is a very effective technique and makes it incredibly hard for a Hyuuga clan member to get hit by physical attacks that come close enough. The problem with the move in general use is that we can't affirm that it can defend against fire/lightning based justsus. Basically anything that doesn't have a physical form, we haven't seen it defend against. I personally doubt it can defend those types of attacks, and if it can, then it still wouldn't do so effectively as for the kaiten user to feel nothing from the attack. Of course, if I were to put this in context of this discussion, I don't think Kaiten could defend against Sharingan "eye" attacks which I will get to.

EDIT: Removed an invalid example of someone evading an attack coming from behind. I'm sure you can find pleny other examples of this happening.

[EbonySeraphim]

Sharingan - This ability I don't think has yet been fully explained by anyone in the anime. We see a set of instances that cover the basics of the ability but not once is everything it offers shown or revealed to us. I will limit my discussion to what we know pretty much but keep what I said in mind. Even the supporters of Sharingan on this thread I feel have left a great deal out.

First of all, the basic ability of the sharingan is to copy jutsu. We see Kakashi do it and Sasuke do it. Whooptee do. The advantage here is clear. How it works though is a bit of a mystery though. We can infer that it somehow reveals the operation of a jutsu in a way that involves chakra and can "see" what the opponent is doing beyond plain sight of hand seals. I guess you can ignore what I said and just take home the fact that sharingan can copy justsu. Don't be stupid and think that it is the main point of the ability just because Kakashi is considered a "copy ninja." Itachi definitely doesn't have such an alias but we can infer that he is a stronger sharingan user who doesn't use copy techniques that often.

The next big ability:
Is the Mange[or Tsukiyomi?] Sharingan that Itachi used against Kakashi. With direct eye contact, the user of this technique has literally won the battle. Seriously, unless you have an opponent that has some SERIOUS lack of brain functionality, there is no way someone hit with this attack could win a fight after being hit by this move. We see that even a half Sharingan user got pwned by it (opening only his sharingan eye I think?). Byakugan holding up against it is out of question - they would definitely have to take Gai's approach to avoiding eye contact.

Not done yet - one thing that no one probably remember that much is back during the Sasuke vs Orochimaru fight(or testing of Sasuke's ability). We see Sasuke break out some weird stringy move with shurikens. I recall Orochimaru saying it was "Sharingan-Controlled Triple Windmill Blades," and of course while he was performing the jutsu we see Sasuke's eyes in the sharingan mode. Somehow the ability was able to control the shurikens mid flight judging by the name of this move and what was going on. You could argue against this because you do see Sasuke pulling on the strings a bit, but the name of the jutsu implies that it is being controlled by a sharingan user.

Also the "foresight" that the sharigan offers is a great advantage for a ninja to have. Knowing the justsu that the enemy is about to use is of course a major advantage in evading, or countering the attack that will come. Of course a big flaw I do see in this would be someone using it too directly and reacting in obvious ways to obvious attacks which would lead an enemy like Shikamaru to lead the sharingan user into a trap. If we assume both fighters are "good" ninja's, this foresight wouldn't provide as much of a direct advantage.

On small thing I have to say about the sharingan is that I recall it being related to the user's chakra in an boosting sense. Don't quote me or argue religiously against me on that point because I do have to re-read/re-watch whatever part either implied or said that it gives the user increased chakra levels in the sharingan state. Also, recall that sharingan has not been fully explained as far as what it can "see" at this point in the series. We only know the effects of certain moves it entails.

By far though, against Naruto world enemies that are strong, sharingan would defeat many more strong foes. The fact that you have to seriously outclass an opponent in order to hit their 64 tenketsu and be in close range make Hakke-sho a lot less than spectacular. Don't get me wrong, the effect of this move is as "fight deciding" as the special form of the sharingan. It's wonderful, but execution isn't a walk in the park vs a good ninja. Ask yourself how easy it would be to punch a jounin in the face - obviously he would evade such an attack. 64 hits would be infinitely harder to pull off. Then we look at the special form of the sharingan and how much easier it is to pull off and results in equally devasting effects.

Against each other, a fight couldn't be decided if it were limited to the abilities of the clans. Nothing says that a Hyuuga member cannot defend himself against the special form of the sharingan. Nothing says that a Hyuuga member would also lose against whatever jutsu the sharingan user has copied. We also cannot say that a Hyuuga member would easily hit a user of sharingan with Hakke-sho or just plain defeat them in a close range combat battle unless you are assuming that the sharingan user is pretty weak in hand to hand combat. Against kaiten...all I can say is that this is a defensive manuever that requires pretty close combat. Nonetheless there is a start up time for this move, and I'm sure sharingan user could see this one coming a mile away. I would expect even a normal ninja on the same level would see something is happening and move away. Beyond that, even getting hit by kaiten doesn't do much more than knock the opponent back unless the guy is putting all his force into directly countering the kaiten. In which case, a strong enough person would inflict damage on the kaiten user as what happened between Naruto and Neji.

The other "mysterious" abilites of the sharingan seems to give members of Uchiha generally better ninja abilities which I think is enough to tip the outcome of a fight happening between them in their favor.

Really though, I think a relatively fair way to compare the two clan abilities is to compare Itachi vs Hiashi. You might be able to argue that Hiashi isn't a prodigy but he certainly has mastered all of the Hyuuga techniques. I don't think anyone in their right mind who understands Naruto(the anime/manga as a whole) would think that Hiashi would defeat someone like Itachi. Of course, imagining a fight between them is a little hard to imagine first off and I'm pretty sure it will never happen.

On a side note: Judging by the nature of the blank stare that a Hyuuga member gives, and the fact that they have 360 degree vision. I don't see them being able to avoid eye contact with a sharingan user like Itachi unless they flat out closed their eyes or "disabled" the Byakugan sight.

Note: I had to split my post in two because of the length.

EDIT: Added my new signature =)

[epyon96]

Really though, I think a relatively fair way to compare the two clan abilities is to compare Itachi vs Hiashi. You might be able to argue that Hiashi isn't a prodigy but he certainly has mastered all of the Hyuuga techniques. I don't think anyone in their right mind who understands Naruto(the anime/manga as a whole) would think that Hiashi would defeat someone like Itachi. Of course, imagining a fight between them is a little hard to imagine first off and I'm pretty sure it will never happen.

It's one thing to master them, it's another to excell in them. Itachi may not be the only one who mastered all the Uchiha abilities but he clearly is superior if he is credited with defeating the clan with it.

It's not a fair evaluation to say one eye ability is better than the other because one individual of one can beat perhaps the best at the moment of the other clan. That is heavily dependent on individual and emphasizes their own abilities more than purely the bloodline.

However, with all doubts aside, Sharingan seems more useful right now in the manga from what we have seen. It may be weaker in seeing chakra as clearly, however, as far as I am concerned, it's clearn enough for me.

EPYON

[raikage]

I'm still not entirely sure why everyone seems to have this huge idea that we've seen the entire potential of the Byakugan while the Sharingan has some sort of untapped powers.
Like I said in the Sasuke vs Neji thread, the Mangekyou seems to come out of nowhere. Explain how the next step of an eye that copies jutsus (affecting the user), increases reaction time and reflexes (affecting the user) will logically create a genjutsu that will affect the opponent. And, Soju (replying to the other thread b/c that discussion seems to be a bit more appropriate here) I think that Kakashi used his Sharingan in conjunction with a genjutsu - 2 seperate jutsus, with the genjutsu seperate from the Sharingan (or at least not required for it). With the random tangent of the Mangekyou in mind, and the theory that the two are blood-related, who's to say for sure that the Byakugan doesn't have some sort of jutsu that externalizes some sort of its abilities?

In other words, I don't think that Neji or Hiashi have mastered the Byakugan to the extent that Itachi has mastered his Sharingan, meaning people are comparing a finished product to one still under construction - which, if my theory is true, makes for a very unfair competition.

EbonySeraphim, it may be true that a Byakugan user should outclass his/her opponent to be able to land all 64 hits in a single strike. However, even if the Byakugan user could shut down two or three, that MAY be enough. If you were to disable the chakra flowing to someone's hands, they probably would not be able to use their jutsus that require hand seals (unless my old theory about not needing hand seals for jutsus is true) and the opponent would not be able to shift chakra into the hands for punches, eliminating the super-strength that shinobis seem to have.
Same principle for the legs - cut the chakra and all of a sudden the enemy can't run as fast or do those crazy jumps, since he can no longer shift chakra there.
If a Byakugan user were to get a Sharingan user in the neck, then the Sharingan may be disabled.

And, don't forget the unique taijutsu style of which the 64 Hands is just one move - even grazing the opponent is enough to insert chakra into the enemy and seriously mess him up.

The Sharingan Triple Windmill Blades (in the manga, it doesn't say Sharingan-controlled) uses the eyes to determine which way the opponent might run and cuts off the path of escape. The eyes don't really control the blades.

The Kaiten - unfortuantely, yes, the animators decided to create a warm-up time for this jutsu. In the manga, it seems to be implied that Neji can create it instantly.

[hobobaggins]

Got to go with Sharingan, college can go a whole lot quicker this way lol. The truth about byakugan..View this at your own risk. IT IS A SPOILER!!!!
Byakugan is NOT 360°. It's 359°. If anyone viewing this is a pure anime watcher and not manga/anime. Judging how far the manga is, i'd say we got another year for you to see what i mean lol.

having 1° missing from 360° wouldnt make that much of a blind spot. that blind spot has to be enough to conceal a few dagger/weapons at a time.

[Sethi]

I'll go with Sharingan although i absolutely love the Byakukan and the Jyuuken, i think that in the overall the Sharingan has more advantages for a Shinobi then the Byakukan.
With Byakukan you get pretty much ownage in close range, attacks that can kill in one hit, a almost unbeatable defence has well as one wicked insight vision, but Sharingan gives the ability to copy Genjutsu, Taijutsu, Ninjutsu and that's just too damn cheap, further more it also allows to read the opponent movements and nullify almost all genjutsu.
And in Itachi case, use Mangekyou to create Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu(?) now fighting a guy like Itachi without even looking to is eyes but only to his feet is pretty damn hard
So Overall i think both Bloodlines are cool and most of all really cheap, but Sharingan really is too damn much.

[nh1]

I need to know something about Sharingan.
What does this translation mean if Amaterasu is a firewall technique and Tsukuyomi is a universal genjutsu.. Also, my body needs to be rested in the same place for a while. Not to mention until Tsukuyomi (Tsukuyomi = Moon) becomes Amaterasu (Amaterasu = Sun) we should not use it
I don't know if that picture was against the rules, but I'll of course remove it, if it is...

Edit: Removed the picture and made a quote instead, because I'm not sure what's exactly licensed.

[hobobaggins]

it means he has to wait for 12 hours before he can use it again... .. or he can only use it during the day.

[stylez]

i'll chose byakugan, reasons : it would rock in cheating at tests, could c everybody and instead of sharingan that woulkd copy the others move excactly i could read their answers and write it in my own way. Also the 360 degrees angle of sigt would be great for martial arts for a good overview. Also in soccer i would be able to predict any person behgind me and around me so i could make a good decision out of what i can see.

But i wouldnt say now to sharingan either, could copy any type of martial arts yust by 1 look, or any other thing i would found interesting.

[hobobaggins]

hence your avatar.

but then comes a problem- can your brain actually process all of that information at once? and if so, would being aware of most everything around you help you that much?

[EbonySeraphim]

I thank goodness there are threads like this around that are still reasonable and I don't get crap replies from.

epyon96: Finally some valid arguments made against mine that are valid. The only line I have to give to pay close attention to is:
Really though, I think a relatively fair way to compare the two clan abilities is to compare Itachi vs Hiashi.
That was all a matter of my opinion. I don't care if you completely disagree with it. I see that the opinion isn't "completely" right, but rather I think it is "relatively fair." (Note that that was also an opinion of mine - let's not get too many levels deep here).

raikage: The idea that Byakugan is fully explored while Sharingan isn't comes from what we have been presented with in the anime. Byakugan when it first appears during Hinata vs Neji got a full explanation from Kakashi and Gai. The only other ability we see as part of their bloodline limit was kaiten with Neji and there wasn't so much more commentary on the eyes. It's abilities were obvious at that point. With sharingan, we see it appear in the copying form first with Kakashi. It does not get an explanation on how it does so. Later (as I pointed out in my post) we see this move that Sasuke does that is controlling windmill blades using the sharingan - again with no explanation. We also see that Sasuke copies Lee's taijutsu style and maybe even speed(which isn't a ninjutsu) with his sharingan. This further mystifies how it does so. Even later we see:
Itatchi break out his Mange(the nameTsukiyomi surfaces here too) Sharingan technique which seems to be a genjutsu type attack coming from the eyes. Again, then there was no explanation of what it was doing and how it worked. Nothing more than a simple way to not suffer it's effects was explained.
Given all of that, you have to at least agree somewhat with the notion that Sharingan is largely explored and yet Byakugan is relatively fully explored. You are right about the Byakugan though. I'm sure there are other abilities (at least I hope) that can be developed from it. So far nothing new has been shown...even in an all out life-or-death fight involving the prodigy of the clan

You are also right that it was said that even if you get grazed by such attacks from the Jyuken style that it can be devastating to the chakra system of an opponent. Still, that doesn't make it that much easier to accomplish as we see that Hinata with obviously lesser physical ability than Neji defend herself well in a fight against him. To defend the possibility of someone bringing up that she also has Byakugan, it should be stated that it doesn't give the Hyuuga clan the ability to defend themselves from their own attacks. Hinata was still basically blocking physical attacks coming from Neji as anyone would do.

The Sharingan Triple Windmill Blades (in the manga, it doesn't say Sharingan-controlled) uses the eyes to determine which way the opponent might run and cuts off the path of escape. The eyes don't really control the blades.

The Kaiten - unfortuantely, yes, the animators decided to create a warm-up time for this jutsu. In the manga, it seems to be implied that Neji can create it instantly.

I would love to believe you on the first part of that quote, but you're gonna have to tell me where the information that says what you said. For reference, I belive what you said make's much more sense than whatever "mystery" may be behind the eyes, but I can't be too sure that you aren't just making it up =)

About the latter part...I guess this is only a matter of interpretation. We see how the animators interpret it. If you consider them a higher authority on the matter then you would probably believe them. I can infer that you don't though. I can agree with your view though, and it would make kaiten a much more effective offensive move. Though one point against it being instant - if that was possible how come it didn't "instantly" start when Naruto was charging at him?

[epyon96]

I thank goodness there are threads like this around that are still reasonable and I don't get crap replies from.

epyon96: Finally some valid arguments made against mine that are valid. The only line I have to give to pay close attention to is:

About the latter part...I guess this is only a matter of interpretation. We see how the animators interpret it. If you consider them a higher authority on the matter then you would probably believe them. I can infer that you don't though. I can agree with your view though, and it would make kaiten a much more effective offensive move. Though one point against it being instant - if that was possible how come it didn't "instantly" start when Naruto was charging at him?

Because Naruto is fast :rolleyes: and Neji was caught off guard. It has relatively minimal startup time otherwise. Remember that time when Naruto tried to punch him from point blank range or when Hiashi did his kaiten? Very little startup time.

:hmm: ..ok..just by calling my previous arguments invalid because you choose to flame them instead does not make yours any more valid.

EPYON

[EbonySeraphim]

Because Naruto is fast :rolleyes: and Neji was caught off guard. It has relatively minimal startup time otherwise. Remember that time when Naruto tried to punch him from point blank range or when Hiashi did his kaiten? Very little startup time.
Off gaurd when Neji was looking right into his eyes the whole time during the charge? Very little startup time is long "time" away from raikage's classifcation of "instant." I prefer an answer from raikage as that was directed towards him and he is best qualified to answer the question.

:hmm: ..ok..just by calling my previous arguments invalid because you choose to flame them instead does not make yours any more valid.

EPYON
Replied to in relevant thread.

[raikage]

Given all of that, you have to at least agree somewhat with the notion that Sharingan is largely explored and yet Byakugan is relatively fully explored. You are right about the Byakugan though. I'm sure there are other abilities (at least I hope) that can be developed from it. So far nothing new has been shown...even in an all out life-or-death fight involving the prodigy of the clan

You are also right that it was said that even if you get grazed by such attacks from the Jyuken style that it can be devastating to the chakra system of an opponent. Still, that doesn't make it that much easier to accomplish as we see that Hinata with obviously lesser physical ability than Neji defend herself well in a fight against him. To defend the possibility of someone br inging up that she also has Byakugan, it should be stated that it doesn't give the Hyuuga clan the ability to defend themselves from their own attacks. Hinata wasstill basically blocking physical attacks coming from Neji as anyone would do.


I would love to believe you on the first part of that quote, but you're gonna have to tell me where the information that says what you said. For reference, I belive what you said make's much more sense than whatever "mystery" may be behind the eyes, but I can't be too sure that you aren't just making it up =)

About the latter part...I guess this is only a matter of interpretation. We see how the animators interpret it. If you consider them a higher authority on the matter then you would probably believe them. I can infer that you don't though. I can agree with your view though, and it would make kaiten a much more effective offensive move. Though one point against it being instant - if that was possible how come it didn't "instantly" start when Naruto was charging at him?

I don't HAVE to agree with anything you say :D...just kidding. I'm trying to fight this idea people seem to have that every single possible Byakugan strategy/possibility has been explored thouroughly while people have only begun to scratch the surface of the Sharingan.

Sasuke copies Rock Lee's taijutsu style...never mind. I don't really believe he did - though it's an old argument that was never fully proven/disproven, though Hunter came really damn close (and we both conceded points, too!).

About the Triple Windmill Blade - the translated manga I read doesn't say "Sharingan-controlled". It's possible the raw does and the translators chose not to include it. I don't have the anime on me (I lent it to a friend and haven't gotten it back yet), so I can't listen to the words and try to figure it out.
Rereading the manga closely, though, it seems as though the technique uses only two weapons - one shuriken and one kunai. The shuriken has a string on it which loops back around the tree attached to the kunai. The kunai, when thrown, pulls back on the shuriken in an attempt to decapitate the enemy. The Sharingan apparently plays absolutely no role in the use of the technique - other than reading which way the enemy will dodge and adjusting the string accordingly.

Neji didn't want to end his battle with Hinata quickly - I thought it was made fairly obvious that he wanted to hurt her badly. Rather, he prolonged the fight by hitting her tenketsus one by one while somehow letting her think that they were still active AND allowing her to still move. He didn't use 64 Hands to shut down her chakra network.

You're right in that whenever the anime and manga conflict or give different messages, I choose the manga. Always.

Sasuke didn't copy Lee's speed - he trained. If Sasuke were to see someone bench-pressing a tank, it would be fairly ridiculous to assume that he could do it too. And, during the prelims when Sasuke used that little bit of Rock's taijutsu, Gai said that the Sharingan alone can't copy taijutsu to that degree. This means that a copied taijutsu won't be perfect - which leads back into my old theory that the Sharingan can copy gross physical movements. Jutsus are easy because they use hand seals.

Anyway, though, there is one other element to the Byakugan that people seem to have missed - the fact that one can focus its vision and see long-distance. During the Forest of Death, Hinata looked about 1 km and clearly saw Gaara, being able to pinpoint him in a second. This is useful in non-combat situations such as spying or scouting, something the Sharingan gives very little advantage for.

And, since you asked, the Kaiten didn't work as effectively because either
• It couldn't deflect that much chakra - but, as long as you aren't fighting against someone with the ability to tap into the power of one of the 9 Great Demons, that point doesn't really matter.
• The spin didn't finish - which seems to be what you're leaning towards. Neji began the Kaiten when it occured to him to do so. He didn't finish because he didn't have the time to finish, which is different than a warm-up time. Imagine racing a car with an automatic transmission (to simplify things from a stick) - as soon as you hit the gas, the car goes. But, when the light turns green, if you aren't completely on top of your game, you miss the cue and the other car gains a lead. It has nothing to do with delay of the car, but rather that of the driver.

[Chi]

• The spin didn't finish - which seems to be what you're leaning towards. Neji began the Kaiten when it occured to him to do so. He didn't finish because he didn't have the time to finish, which is different than a warm-up time. Imagine racing a car with an automatic transmission (to simplify things from a stick) - as soon as you hit the gas, the car goes. But, when the light turns green, if you aren't completely on top of your game, you miss the cue and the other car gains a lead. It has nothing to do with delay of the car, but rather that of the driver.

I'd just like to comment on this quote first.
Essentially what I gathered was that generally: a green light pops up, you hit the gas, and your car goes. This point to me says that if you're just a little slow, the other cars get ahead of you. That's true, but it was apparent that Neji started his spin, but the fact that it didn't deflect all of it was because it he started it late, meaning there has to be some time, even if it's brief, before the spin maximizes the deflection. For Kaiten to work, instead of just firing your chakra out, you spin so that it swirls around you creating the shield. So while firing chakra out is like stepping on the gas, you need to spin in order to protect more effectively like a car needs some acceleration time before it really gets moving.

I do not disagree with the fact that Kaiten is primarily based on reaction speed, but even if Kaiten is instantaneous in its chakra release, I contest that the time required to attain optimal spinning speed is technically the warm up time needed for Kaiten.

In the end, what I've said basically defends what you've said raikage and hopefully clarifies why Neji's Kaiten did not appear instantaneously or appear so useful.

I wish I could create further points on the Byakugan and Sharingan but for the time being, it seems between raikage and EbonySeraphim, most everything has been covered as shown in both the anime and manga. (hopefully subject to change)

[EbonySeraphim]

I should shove everthing I have to say down your throat[raikage] >.>

I do agree about Sasuke copying Lee's taijustu. I don't believe it that much either. I can believe that his eye somehow helps him immitate it better than most people could somehow. If you don't mind though, care to tell me what thread involved you and Hunter going at it? I would love to read up on what was discussed there. I know Hunter knows volumes of information. Same thing about the speed. This is probably something I need to re-read or rewatch. I could have sworn someone stated directly that "Sasuke copied Lee's speed." Once again, it is hard to believe but I still aruge that we hardly know exactly what sharingan does/allows.

About the Triple Windmill Blades - I guess its best not to argue about the translations. in the end, the manga probably should be the highest authorithy in terms of depiction. But the sharingan allowing the user to manipulate the strings in such a way that it is virtually inescapable is quite a good ability to have.

About Neji vs Hinata: I agree that he probably didn't want to end the fight that quickly. I could tell that his initial intent was just to damage her spirit and not to just flat out win. Though I do have a hard time believing that the whole time he was hitting her tenketsu. She would have known and saw her own being hit. You did say "somehow" which I guess implies that you may not even know how he could accomplish this.

Thanks for reminding me about that. I certainly left it out and forgot about it in my two really long and "complete" posts. While this is a definite good ability of the Byakugan(and you already said this), it obviously has no real application in a fight unless we assume both ninja's start off at a distance from each other and have to find each other first. In this scenario, Byakugan is a far greater advantage.

As far as your car analogy goes with kaiten, I would say - GET A BETTER DRIVER!!! :) other than that, I would argue that the spin aspect of kaiten makes it both readable even without special eyes, and a necessity for the move happening effectively. Hence, without it, kaiten is far from absolute. It does suffice to explain why it didn't happen effectively against Naruto though. I personally would think that even with Naruto in the state he was, if kaiten started early enough, he would have been knocked back - or some other explanation as to why he *didn't* get knocked back would have to emerge. Logical one being that kyuubi's chakra is too great to stop.

Also as far as the spin stopping/finishing - another good explanation would be the fact that Naruto's strike was opposing that of the spin. And obviously being in "enhanced mode" would give Naruto the strength to do such a thing.

[epyon96]

Off gaurd when Neji was looking right into his eyes the whole time during the charge? Very little startup time is long "time" away from raikage's classifcation of "instant." I prefer an answer from raikage as that was directed towards him and he is best qualified to answer the question.


Replied to in relevant thread.

Neji was kind of surprised at the time of the extreme speed. I don't know. I'm not Neji. I'm just guessing like everyone else. However, we clearly saw that it had no startup time earlier when Naruto tried to punch him. And we saw pretty much no startup time when Hiashi pulled his big one on all the ninjas. Perhaps it needed to reach an optimal spin to deflect an attack the power of Naruto's like Blur said. That would make sense however, it's just a guess.

Replying to Raikage? Same thing IMO, since it's a forum and he can read my comment which is directed at him and you. I just didn't want to hassle myself in quoting everyone. :uhoh:

Relevant thread? Why does it matter when the comment was directed for you to read. In the end, I get the same intended result. lolz.

EPYON

[Dorfl]

Neji was kind of surprised at the time of the extreme speed. I don't know. I'm not Neji. I'm just guessing like everyone else. However, we clearly saw that it had no startup time earlier when Naruto tried to punch him. And we saw pretty much no startup time when Hiashi pulled his big one on all the ninjas. Perhaps it needed to reach an optimal spin to deflect an attack the power of Naruto's like Blur said. That would make sense however, it's just a guess.

EPYON
I don't think there is much of a start up time either in the manga, but the anime made it look that way, especially when it had Hiashi twirling around five or six times like a $%#@ing ballerina. I'd waited YEARS to see that moment with the "super kaiten," so to speak and THIS was what I got? I mean, any ninja worth their salt should have pounced on him while he was doing his little dance, this isn't Princess Tutu!! :frustrated:

[epyon96]

I don't think there is much of a start up time either in the manga, but the anime made it look that way, especially when it had Hiashi twirling around five or six times like a $%#@ing ballerina. I'd waited YEARS to see that moment with the "super kaiten," so to speak and THIS was what I got? I mean, any ninja worth their salt should have pounced on him while he was doing his little dance, this isn't Princess Tutu!! :frustrated:

You may be right about the initial couple of spins. However, the second you see the chakra, people went flying.

If someone starts spinning like that, the first reaction is usually not to run. But that's just a guess.

And also, I postulate that given the size of the radius of that particular attack's range, it is possible Hiashi had to do a couple more initial spins to activate it to that full or more powerful extent. The reason I say this is because when Neji did the attack to block Naruto's punches earlier on, there was clearly no delay at all but than again that was an attack of a lesser degree and the Naruto and Naruto clones were closer as well.

EPYON

[EbonySeraphim]

If someone starts spinning like that, the first reaction is usually not to run. But that's just a guess.
It's a bad one at that. If you saw someone in real life doing Naruto style hand seals would you run or expect something to happen? Of course not. In their world though, they would. In a world with infinite jutsu styles, I think it would be assumed that an attack would be coming, especially when an opponent you are in the middle of fighting started to move.

[epyon96]

It's a bad one at that. If you saw someone in real life doing Naruto style hand seals would you run or expect something to happen? Of course not. In their world though, they would. In a world with infinite jutsu styles, I think it would be assumed that an attack would be coming, especially when an opponent you are in the middle of fighting started to move.

:hmm: Perhaps you're right. I was sarcastic in my previous post because I don't know either.

However, maybe they suspected that whatever attack he was pulling can be dodged because they were confident in their speed. We have seen overconfident ninjas in Naruto before. lolz. Look no further than Naruto.

EPYON

[EbonySeraphim]

However, maybe they suspected that whatever attack he was pulling can be dodged because they were confident in their speed. We have seen overconfident ninjas in Naruto before. lolz. Look no further than Naruto.
If they were that overconfident, than they were obviously not too strong of ninja were they? My argument implied that I wasn't talking about ninjas that didn't suck.

I think this post replaces my shortest ever.

[EbonySeraphim]

If they were that overconfident, than they were obviously not too strong of ninja were they? My argument implied that I was talking about ninjas that didn't suck.

I think this post replaces my shortest ever.

EDIT: Fixed grammatical problems.

[aptenergy]

Hi, this is my first post. I've been through some of the Hyuuga and Byakugan vs Sharingan threads, and a lot of the same old stuff is hashed again and again, so I felt a new thread would be okay. I think this deals with pretty specific things.

No matter what the rest of this post says, I think Sasuke will surpass Neji in some way, just because the structure of the series dictates it. Even though Neji is very strong and the Byakugan is very strong, I'd think that Kishimoto would make sure that Naruto and Sasuke are the strongest ninja period.

I'm surprised that everyone seems to think that the Byakugan has reached its limit at this point. Everyone assumes that seeing the tenketsu, the Kaiten, and 64 hands of Hakke (or whatever you'd like to call it) are the only things the Byakugan can do.

In order to look at the Byakugan progression, I've got to compare its development in the series to Sharingan. So given the anime, here's a comparison:

Byakugan:
See chakra points and chakra flow
See 360 degrees
Kaiten - block (all?) attacks
Damage internal organs
64 hands of Hakke - prevent jutsu usage
(Probably) general heightened perception

Sharingan:
General heightened perception
See through any nin, gen, or taijutsu
Copy any non-bloodline jutsu
Induce illusions

At this point, I might venture to say that the two are equal, if used properly, in their own ways. If you have a Hyuuga fighting a Mountain ninja, I'd say he'd destroy the ninja as easily as an Uchiha would (I can't prove this, but I hope you get my point). Kakashi has shown what he can do, and Neji is an excellent viewing into the proper use of Byakugan.

But given the manga, here's what we've additionally learned about Byakugan and Sharingan:

Byakugan:
Blind spot is present

Sharingan (sorry, I don't know the exact names):
Mange Sharingan - basically destroy someone's spirit - genjutsu
Black Flame (Amaratetsu? sp?) - Burn through almost anything - ninjutsu

The two Sharingan moves are extremely powerful (coming from Itachi) and I'd bet that they are the culmination of the Sharingan technique, seeing as how Itachi killed every other Uchiha. By the way, I remember reading a post on the NarutoFan forums about a third move (ultra taijutsu, probably) that comes from the origin of the original Japanese names. So there's more to see.

Anyway, based off this, everyone concludes that Sharingan will always rule. But Kakashi states that Byakugan offers more insight than Sharingan does. And I'm not convinced that seeing 360 is enough, given that with the way ninja fight in Naruto, it almost seems like they already see 360 already. Seriously. Plus, Kimimaro doesn't have 360 vision, but he was able to take on multiple Naruto clones from all around him.

We've never seen someone like Itachi on the Hyuuga side. Given that, I tend to believe that there are more moves to Byakugan that we haven't seen yet. What kind of moves? I might follow along what Neji can already do - read someone's emotional state - and say that the culmination of the Byakugan might be the ability to figure what someone is actually thinking -- perhaps detecting strategies as well. Or predict a jutsu they'd use. Sure, Sharingan can replicate that move, but I think the ultimate Byakugan user would be able to observe and react to basically anything.

This would make Byakugan and Sharingan opposites of each other, in a way. Sharingan is very offensive, turning your moves against you and doing very direct, extreme damage. Byakugan is very defensive, seeing your moves and blocking them, and letting their offensive moves perform mostly disabling actions. In my mind, that's both sides of the same coin.

I'm sure I left out information, but I hope that I can get a nod of approval from both sides.

[Lexander]

Merge with Sharingan vs. Byakugan thread ...

please use the search button.

[Muad'Dib]

Merge with Sharingan vs. Byakugan thread ...

please use the search button.

Hmm, if you'd've read his post, he did already. That doesn't mean he was justified in creating a new thread, but he did.

Hmm, aptenergy, you need to put a lot of your post in spoiler tags. Unless you want to make this a manga readers only discussion, in which case you need to change the title of the thread to include [manga].

Still, I doubt this thread will be allowed to exist.

But, assuming it is, (and therefore not being a harasser) I think it's an interesting idea that the sharingan and byukugan are sorta opposites of each other, but you're not the first one to think of this, I'm sure. Still, it would explain why people are afraid of the sharingan and not the byukugan when both users appear strong--because the sharingan is much more offensive related.

[eLstar]

Hi, this is my first post. I've been through some of the Hyuuga and Byakugan vs Sharingan threads, and a lot of the same old stuff is hashed again and again, so I felt a new thread would be okay. I think this deals with pretty specific things.

You're lucky I liked your post. Thread Merged.

[Lexander]

Eps ... I just skipped to his theory didn't bother reading the intro after "this is my first post"

I agree with what he said too ... it's just ... sooo much ... on ... it ... already ... all ... over ... the forum ...


To contribute to the discussion I just thought I'd add something:

A possible counter againtst the sharingan ... you activate your Byukugan ... and close your eyes. You can see him through your eyelids ... but guess what he can't use the sharingan to hipnotise.

[Chosen]

Manga Itachi Spoiler!
IMO Sharingan is better atleast at Itachi's level! He can just stare at them and they can't move for 72hours! And I'm pretty sure that he could beat em up after before the 72 hours runs out

[sarcasteak]

But given the manga, here's what we've additionally learned about Byakugan and Sharingan:

Byakugan:
Blind spot is present

Sharingan:
Mangekyo Sharingan:
Tsukiyomi - basically destroy someone's spirit - genjutsu
Amaterasu - Burn through almost anything - ninjutsu

The two Sharingan moves are extremely powerful (coming from Itachi) and I'd bet that they are the culmination of the Sharingan technique, seeing as how Itachi killed every other Uchiha. By the way, I remember reading a post on the NarutoFan forums about a third move (ultra taijutsu, probably) that comes from the origin of the original Japanese names. So there's more to see.

We've never seen someone like Itachi on the Hyuuga side. Given that, I tend to believe that there are more moves to Byakugan that we haven't seen yet. What kind of moves? I might follow along what Neji can already do - read someone's emotional state - and say that the culmination of the Byakugan might be the ability to figure what someone is actually thinking -- perhaps detecting strategies as well. Or predict a jutsu they'd use. Sure, Sharingan can replicate that move, but I think the ultimate Byakugan user would be able to observe and react to basically anything.

This would make Byakugan and Sharingan opposites of each other, in a way. Sharingan is very offensive, turning your moves against you and doing very direct, extreme damage. Byakugan is very defensive, seeing your moves and blocking them, and letting their offensive moves perform mostly disabling actions. In my mind, that's both sides of the same coin.

I've liked the Susanowo theory, but someone has said that Chidori is already a "lightning" move...

Anyways, someone from the Hyuga clan (presumably Neji) needs to push Byakugan beyond its current limit (which I believe he has already reached) before we can make a judgement, but your theory is definitely a nice one.

[Shadamehr]

Hi, this is my first post. I've been through some of the Hyuuga and Byakugan vs Sharingan threads, and a lot of the same old stuff is hashed again and again, so I felt a new thread would be okay. I think this deals with pretty specific things.


Welcome to the forum!


We've never seen someone like Itachi on the Hyuuga side. Given that, I tend to believe that there are more moves to Byakugan that we haven't seen yet. What kind of moves? I might follow along what Neji can already do - read someone's emotional state - and say that the culmination of the Byakugan might be the ability to figure what someone is actually thinking -- perhaps detecting strategies as well. Or predict a jutsu they'd use. Sure, Sharingan can replicate that move, but I think the ultimate Byakugan user would be able to observe and react to basically anything.

This would make Byakugan and Sharingan opposites of each other, in a way. Sharingan is very offensive, turning your moves against you and doing very direct, extreme damage. Byakugan is very defensive, seeing your moves and blocking them, and letting their offensive moves perform mostly disabling actions. In my mind, that's both sides of the same coin.

I'm sure I left out information, but I hope that I can get a nod of approval from both sides.

I'd like to see new abilities for the Byakugan as well, but that certainly isn't the direction I'd want it to go in. That's already pretty much Sharingan territory. I know you can't read your opponent's mind with the Sharingan, but nevertheless one of it's primary abilities is reading and PREDICTING your enemies attacks. For Byakugan to move in the same direction would be dumb imho.

Anyways, I wouldn't call the Byakugan more defensive than the Sharingan, since Sharingan allows you to read and react to your opponent's moves (note that the only way Sasuke was able to defend partially-transformed Gaara's attacks was with the Sharingan.) I also wouldn't call the Sharingan more offensive than the Byakugan, since the Byakugan opens up a whole new class of jyuuken attacks.


So, basically all of the Sharingan's abilities basically boil down to three things: insight, extreme attention to detail and hypnotic ability (refer to Zabuza's analysis). Basically, copying jutsus, reading moves, etc. etc. is all due to this keen eye for details. At Sasuke's level, he has access to the keen eye and insight (reading moves and seeing through bunshins etc.) When we move up to Kakashi's level, we have the hypnosis. Now, note that when we see new abilities for the Sharingan from Itachi, it basically builds upon one of these abilities. His Tsukiyomi illusion is just extremely powerful eye hypnosis.

Now, the Byakugan's abilities thus far are insight and extreme attention to a wide area. Note that they both share insight (although Byakugan takes it further), but the attention factor is an exact opposite. The Sharingan allows you to focus on and notice subtleties of your opponent's chakra and movement which in turn allow you to predict what he is going to do, or copy his techniques.

The Byakugan, in an opposite fashion, allows you to observe the area all around you in a sphere simultaneously. So, I would assume that if there is a third attribute to the Byakugan, it would somehow stand opposite the eye hypnosis of the Sharingan (don't ask me what the heck that would be).

[aptenergy]

Thanks guys, I appreciate you all not slamming me. I thought that the tag I had already would deflect most of it, but I guess [Manga] would probably have been more appropriate.

I think shadamehr makes some very good points. In my mind, if Neji does have a third sort of characteristic (Sharingan has insight, attention to detail, and hypnotic abilities, and Byakugan has insight and attention to a wide area), it'd 1) involve his eye and 2) involve Hakke.

From what I've gathered it appears as if Hakke is just a name (I don't know Japanese). Given that, when Neji is about to beat up Naruto with the 64 hands, he says "You're within the range of my Hakke" and we see the whole green yin yang deal... except it just seems like the green yin-yang circle was used to indicate range. Why use it to only indicate range and yet make it so fancy? It had divination signs, it had distance markers (like a target), etc.

[SPOILER]Likewise, when Neji faces off against Kidoumaru and uses the 64 hands, he also makes that same statement - you're within reach, and we see the yin-yang circle again.

Therefore, I'm under the impression that any attack would use this circle to accomplish its task. So Itachi could use his hypnosis when you looked at him, and any eye move that Neji would use would require that you be within this circle. Given that Neji's Kaiten was pretty small, and Naruto was a fair distance from Neji, maybe Kaiten has the range of the first or second Hakke circle. This would make Hiashi's Hakke range incredible.

If we compare Sharingan to Byakugan, then the third characteristic would involve the eye. And like Shadamehr, I don't know what it'd be. Perhaps the effect of this move would increase as you got closer to a Byakugan user (again, the whole target thing). Also, I was differentiating Sharingan from Byakugan because Sharingan can react to things as they happen, while Byakugan would already know exactly what you're thinking before you even do it. So whatever strategy you'd want to use would fail - not because your opponent could react quickly, but your opponent would already know all of it.

So it wouldn't be an eye hypnosis, but it'd be the other side. In hypnosis, you're made to believe anything the hypnotist wants you to. In this type of move, there'd be no faking about your strategy and plans, but it's the Byakugan user who would know exactly what you're planning. This is what I thought when I was thinking about "increased insight." I'm not sure that Sharingan is used for predicting attacks - just a better reaction to them. Kakashi didn't realize Zabuza would fog things up, but he could deal with it more effectively than a normal ninja would.

I don't know, maybe I'm trying too hard to differentiate the two.

I agree that the Byakugan opens up the Jyuuken style, but that means "Gentle Fist," which would indicate your attack is not as much about devastation as it is about quickly, efficiently and calmly eliminating the target. It's not fancy, but it gets the job done. Besides, Jyuuken requires you to be within reach, and the ultimate Jyuuken move seems to be to disable someone. So you can kill people using Sharingan (turn their move against them) or Byakugan (disable them from doing anything to you). That's why I'd say that Byakugan is more on the defensive end.

[_Riku_]

the sharingan, why??? for the power, I mean mangekyou sharingan would whoop any byakugan user, people has said, "byakugan can see through mange, ehm nope, Itachi said clearly "only a sharingan user on the same level can stand a chance against it

[Tatay]

yAy its 1 of these! awesome1 i ch00se byukn because i want to l00k thr0gh g1rls sk1rts!

sorry im a jackass.
haha, lol me too:p

[realdeal]

the sharingan, why??? for the power, I mean mangekyou sharingan would whoop any byakugan user, people has said, "byakugan can see through mange, ehm nope, Itachi said clearly "only a sharingan user on the same level can stand a chance against it

Only a sharingan user can counter it but byakugan will not counter it, it will simply avoid it. The same reason as how gai is able to avoid it by looking at only the feet, the byakugan will simply avoid it by looking through it. Still nothing is proven so who knows, I wouldnt bet against the byakugan being able to see through it though.

A question came into mind, can normal ninjas use kaiten? I mean you dont need chakra for that, just a matter of learning to draw out chakra from the body. Its a bloodline limit so dont think sharingan can copy it but its possible. I think neji said something along the lines of jounins only being able to emit chakra out of their hands and feet. Does the hyuga have another special ability apart from the byakugan that allows them to have this chakra control or is it all practice.

[aptenergy]

Well I imagine that Kaiten is useless if you don't know where anyone's coming from. Neji is always aware of the people near him, but a person without Byakugan would just spin and have no idea where anyone is. Someone w/o Byakugan would be at a huge disadvantage coming out of Kaiten.

And there are probably ways for emitting your chakra and/or combining it with the spin so that it turns into an invincible defense. Remember Neji practicing with Tenten? I don't know that simply emitting chakra and spinning around does anything, there's probably a trick to it.

[sarcasteak]

From what I've gathered it appears as if Hakke is just a name (I don't know Japanese). Given that, when Neji is about to beat up Naruto with the 64 hands, he says "You're within the range of my Hakke" and we see the whole green yin yang deal... except it just seems like the green yin-yang circle was used to indicate range. Why use it to only indicate range and yet make it so fancy? It had divination signs, it had distance markers (like a target), etc.
raikage and I discussed very briefly about "hakke" here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=2164&page=6&pp=20) if you are still interested; you didn't reply to that thread, so I don't know if you've seen it yet...

I've always thought that since it has to do with fortune telling...as long as the target is in range of the "divination," all 64 will hit?

[FreakyEyes]

I'm much too Hyuuga fan (you know, what's that thing currently in my avatar?) to vote for Sharingan although it has some really awesome genjutsu abilities. Well I'm not actually Hyuuga fan; their "branch house" system sucks and they seem to be just arrogant, strict and old-fashioned clan if you generalize a bit. I am more Byakugan fan and aren't they the eyes what we are speaking now. Jyuuken... ah. What's cooler than fighting style that doesn't need raw power, it damages your enemy's inner organs by just those "gentle" fist attacks? And it's dangerous. Very dangerous. Your hand becomes like a dagger. Except when you use dagger, you have to hit deep enough. With Jyuuken only slight graze is enough. And of course Byakugan looks very good especially when it is turned on and those blood vessels rise. The ability to see through things is also handy in other things too besides Jyuuken. Closing tenketsus is ok as well, however I'm annoyed how they on some Naruto sites speak like it's the main ability of Byakugan in fight and don't actually even mention how Byakugan is used to damage inner organs!

[epyon96]

Quick Offtopic Question.

Which thread did this one one merge? The title thread and "developed byakugan vs developed Sharingan" or something else? I can't seem to find many of the posts that I expect to find.

EPYON

[eLstar]

I didn't merge it at all. I will soon though. I just have to finish looking over the thread.

[PerniciousJuJu]

Sharingan because it owns b!tch! and b/c it can copy and predict moves before hand.. all the byukugan can do is see chakara..? right?

[FreakyEyes]

Sharingan because it owns b!tch! and b/c it can copy and predict moves before hand.. all the byukugan can do is see chakara..? right?

No, Byakugan sees through things (It enables the Gentle fist style!), it gives you almost 360 degrees vision and I think it will also allow to see at longer distance...
That's a little more than just seeing chakra.

[Ke0]

Only a sharingan user can counter it but byakugan will not counter it, it will simply avoid it. The same reason as how gai is able to avoid it by looking at only the feet, the byakugan will simply avoid it by looking through it. Still nothing is proven so who knows, I wouldnt bet against the byakugan being able to see through it though.

A question came into mind, can normal ninjas use kaiten? I mean you dont need chakra for that, just a matter of learning to draw out chakra from the body. Its a bloodline limit so dont think sharingan can copy it but its possible. I think neji said something along the lines of jounins only being able to emit chakra out of their hands and feet. Does the hyuga have another special ability apart from the byakugan that allows them to have this chakra control or is it all practice.

I don't think anyone can do Kaiten, as TenTen said even Jounin and higher levels have trouble just able to control chakra from their hands and feet, but the Hyuga can emit chakra from all their chakra points, which is needed.

the sharingan, why??? for the power, I mean mangekyou sharingan would whoop any byakugan user, people has said, "byakugan can see through mange, ehm nope, Itachi said clearly "only a sharingan user on the same level can stand a chance against it

But you also have to remember, Itachi has never fought a Hyuga, He only knows what he's been taught, and what he's gone through. We don't know if a Hyuga can see through it or not. It just like those who say Kaiten, Jyuuken, and the almost 360 degree vision are the Byaguken's only abilites, we don't know because we haven't seen them all.

[Rasho]

I voted Sharingan because it looks cooler.:heh:

[hokagenaruto3]

Rasho let me bow down to you wisdom :heh: :heh: :heh:
Don't you guys just think a little bit that we haven't seen the ultimate Hyuuga jutsu? That clan is WAY too old and developed to have just Hakke, Jyuuken and Kaiten. I'm very sure they have lots of more jutsu's to learn, I mean even Shikamaru is learning Jutsu from his father, while the Nara clan isn't nearly as strong as Hyuuga.
If hiashi just tought things to Neji instead of him having to redevelope it over and ver again, we'd see some really cool shizzle. :heh:

[Hunter]

The Kaiten and 64 hands of Hakke are already very secret moves only known by the Head of the Main familly.
That's why Neji is such an incredible genious to learn them all by himself.

To say that maybe the Byakugan will have something more isn't an argument, as far as we know it hasn't.
Actually, to use that as an argument is pretty much the same as to say that for the moment you think that the Sharingan's better because the Byakugan needs something more :p

[Nine Devil]

The Kaiten and 64 hands of Hakke are already very secret moves only known by the Head of the Main familly.
That's why Neji is such an incredible genious to learn them all by himself.

To say that maybe the Byakugan will have something more isn't an argument, as far as we know it hasn't.
Actually, to use that as an argument is pretty much the same as to say that for the moment you think that the Sharingan's better because the Byakugan needs something more :p

Plus, the truth is out there cuz we don't know everything about Sahringan either. While we know everything about Byakugan their part has ended.

[raikage]

Plus, the truth is out there cuz we don't know everything about Sahringan either. While we know everything about Byakugan their part has ended.

What you said pretty much is the opposite of Hunter's post... :hmm:

[Unidentified]

Plus, the truth is out there cuz we don't know everything about Sahringan either. While we know everything about Byakugan their part has ended.
That's completely wrong. Although even from what we've seen from both, the byukagan as the most efficeint and powerful moves. 1 hit kill that doesn't seem to even tire the sure a bit.

But anyways. Nobody ever said the kaiten and 64 hands were CHEIF of the hyuga moves. If i recall correctly(I read both manga and anime of this part), he said it was a main family move. Meaining that most main family hyuga's are thaught how to do it.

About your post. We've seen almost all of what the sharingan has to offer. We've seen the strongest genjutsu, and ninjutsu. I'm geussing there's a taijutsu. By Itachi just doing the ninjutsu and genjusu move the mange sharingan he said it took a lot of chakra out of him. We've seen only 2 moves of the byukagan that doesn't seem to effect the user's chakra much and a genin was able to do it.

But unlike the sharingan from what we've seen, the stronge ryou are the more powerful it is. Like Hiashi's kaiten was as fast as Neji's(instant) and it left a HUGE crater and blasted away a whole mess of ninjas.

[Hunter]

Actually Nine Devil is partially right, I wouldn't say that the Byakugan has no more abilities (I don't talk of new way to use it, I speak about new capacities) because it's about Kishomoto's will only.
But yes, as far as we know there isn't anything to explain in the Byakugan anymore and there is no indication for any new abilities either.

In the other hand, we still wait for an explanation of the Amaterasu of the Sharingan (and maybe a third Taijutsu special move, but I don't really think so).

Then Unidentified, you're wrong, it's Hiashi himself who said that the Kaiten was a secret move only known by the head of the Main Family and induced that it was the same for the 64 hands.
Anyway, Hyuga able to see the tenketsus are rare, and those able to use them during a real fight even more, Neji gains his title of genius because of that.

And for the moment, I didn't see a Hyuga's move at the level of the Amaterasu or the Tsukiyomi, even the Kaiten, the 64 hands and the Jyuken in general which are the best Taijutsu style so far in the story (well I think so :p) aren't at this level.

[raikage]

...unless the Raikiri IS meant to be the third Special Taijutsu Move - just not invented by an Uchiha...

Anyway, I'm not sure if being able to see tenketsus is a matter of how much you inhereit the bloodline or if it's a matter of experience/skill (like the number of dots in the Sharingan). This would imply that with the proper training you would be able to see tenketsus. Being able to manipulate them in the middle of a fight - almost impossible (unless you fight a jutsu user that can't move around too much - like Naruto when he's charging for Kagebunshin, Sasuke/Kakashi charging Chidori, Shikamaru with Shadow Bind, etc. etc.)

[Narutto Kyuubi]

Well hyuga blood line isnt everything about the eyes you know. Neji can Also emit chakra out of every part of his body. that is how he is able to do his spinning defense. AND not only does he emit chakra out of every part of his body he also controls what he has released with a great deal of control. and the only part Neij cant see is a small cone shape that points from his second vertibrae from his head and goes up at about a 15 or 20 degree angle. that is the only thing he can't see when he uses his 360 degree vision. there are too many unknowns about both limits. The 64 hit and the spin defense are just part of the set of secret ninjutsus the head family leader knows. Also the sharigan we have seen itachi use is good to but I doubt we know everything about that too. Also we dont know if a hyuga would be hit with the genjutsu if he used his 360 vision. right now this thread is a more of a I like this so this is what wins thread I think.

[Hunter]

...unless the Raikiri IS meant to be the third Special Taijutsu Move - just not invented by an Uchiha...

That would be rather weird lol especially that the Raikiri is a Ninjutsu (yeah even if you must run like hell :p)

Anyway, I'm not sure if being able to see tenketsus is a matter of how much you inhereit the bloodline or if it's a matter of experience/skill (like the number of dots in the Sharingan). This would imply that with the proper training you would be able to see tenketsus.

Given how Hiashi and Hizachi said several times that Neji is the one who has inherited the most of the ability of the Bloodline limit in the Hyuga, I think it's quite clear that Neji has and will always have a better Byakugan than the regular members.

Hinata for example seems to be just a normal user (so she's weak for a pure member of the Main family), she can only see the inner coils system, so now imagine a weak member of the Branch family...

Some of them should hardly see the panties of their friends ;)

[MidoriShinobi]

The Byakugan is far different from the Sharingan. Unlike the Sharingan this technique can not copy moves. Although it can not copy moves, the Byakugan may just be better then the Sharingan, as Kakashi admits.

The Byakugan gives the user the unique and devastating ability to be able to see through nearly anything, as well as the ability to know what a person is thinking just by the movements of his/her eyes. A good example of this would be in episode 46, when Neji telles Hinata that because she is looking to the top-left corner of her eyes she is recalling a painful past event.

Along with the two previously mentioned great abilities that the Byakugan has, it also posesses the extremely deadly ability to be able to see the opponent's inner Chakra Center, and be able to attack it directly! In the case of Hyuuga Neji, he is able to see his opponents Tenketsu (chakra points) and attack them. This is a very remarkable ability when you take into consideration that there are 361 points throughout the body on the Keirakukei (chakra highway), and each point is just about the size of a needle point. If they are hit directly, they could theoretically stop that persons chakra flow altogether.

With all those fascinating abilities, the Byakugan can still do more! It gives the user the ability to see 360 Degrees around him, and perfect vision for 20 metres. This means that a Byakugan user cannot be attacked from behind, unless the attacker is extraordinarily fast.

The Sharingan is a pupil characteristic which is said to have been passed down from the Hyuuga's Byakugan, and then, with time, evolved. Although it is so closely related to the Sharingan, the Byakugan is far stronger. It is also said that possibly, the Uchiha's original traits are from the Hyuuga clan, which also explains the Sharingan's existence. :D

[CommS007]

Although we haven't seen many (if any) counter-ing the sharingan effects though. :heh:

[Hunter]

Well hyuga blood line isnt everything about the eyes you know. Neji can Also emit chakra out of every part of his body. that is how he is able to do his spinning defense. AND not only does he emit chakra out of every part of his body he also controls what he has released with a great deal of control.

The Byakugan's abilities is only about the eyes.
Now that doesn't mean that you can't use these ablities to do something else, in this case using your eyes to develop a particular fighting style such as the Jyuken.

To emit and control the chakra are the two main points of the Jyuken, and the Byakugan helps to do that simply because you can see the chakra, how it moves, etc.
the first two steps of the Rasengan showed how it's difficult for a normal ninja to do that, because they need to feel their chakra to know how it moves and to make it moves at will.
And something difficult on one part of the body must be incredibly harder when you do it with all the tenketsu at the same time.
For a Hyuga who has masterized the Jyuken style such as Neji (it's not a given though, a regular Hyuga who can't even see the tenkentsu can't do that) it's just a simple task.


MidoriShinobi firstly Kakashi never says that the Byakugan was better than the Sharingan, he merely said that the Byakugan has a better insight, that's all.
Then what Neji did with Hinata wasn't really a particularity of the Byakugan the whole thing of reading the face of people to know about what they think is a well known stuff, you don't need the Byakugan for that.

[raikage]

MidoriShinobi, the Sharingan may have evolved as an offhsoot of the Byakugan - but that really tells us nothing about the two as relative in strength.

It doesn't even mean that the Sharingan, as the "newer" eye, is better - unless the Byakugan has not evolved at all since the time of the split (which is possible, but unlikely).

To have the Byakugan does NOT mean you have total control over your own chakra - since Neji couldn't learn the Lotus (or even be able to speed up his own chakra flow enough to fake it). To me, this almost defies belief, but it's there.

[FreakyEyes]

Anyway, Hyuga able to see the tenketsus are rare, and those able to use them during a real fight even more, Neji gains his title of genius because of that.
.

I thought that every Hyuuga, as they have Byakugan, can see the tenketsus. The hard part is to hit them during combat. Does it say somewhere that all Hyuugas can't SEE tenketsus?

[treetrall-sama]

I'd go for Sharingan

[Explosion of Youth]

If byakugan is so good, why didn't Kakashi get that eye instead of sharingan? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Explosion of Youth]

Also, a byukugan user could not face a mange sharingan user. WTF is he supposed to do look at the ground and kaiten while hoping for the best?

:hmm:

[Terriator]

If byakugan is so good, why didn't Kakashi get that eye instead of sharingan? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Lol...I think it's way harder to transplant Byakugan.

The sharingan may be stronger against other users, but not against Hyuuga, as they won't be able to use anything against Hyuuga (If Gai, a person who doesn't have Byakugan, can fight the Sharingan by not looking Itachi In the eyes, then I would say that person just as skilled as Itachi just with Byakugan instead, would stand a really good chance), but their infirior insight and their abillity to not copy their unique fighting style as they don't have Byakugan

wow...that was a strange sentence i just made there. Gotta stop using those parantheses :thinker:

[Explosion of Youth]

Uh...Its CLEARLY stated that the only reason Gai could do it was because of his EXPERIENCE in fighting Kakashi and the Sharingan. By the time someone learned to attack by looking at the enemy's feet, they'd be dead.

[Terriator]

Yes..i know...but bloodlines should not be evaluated on who has them, but on their abillities. If a person just as strong as Itachi was fighting him with Byakugan instead of Sharingan, I definitly think The Byakugan would win.

With the control of the eyes that the Byakugan gives the user don't you think that if he just knew he shouldn't look directly at the Sharingan he could do it? Byakugan might give the user the abillity to see 360 degrees around, but it doesn't mean the user has to focus at everything around him. Mange Sharingan only work if you look directly at the Sharingan

[Nine Devil]

Yes..i know...but bloodlines should not be evaluated on who has them, but on their abillities. If a person just as strong as Itachi was fighting him with Byakugan instead of Sharingan, I definitly think The Byakugan would win.

With the control of the eyes that the Byakugan gives the user don't you think that if he just knew he shouldn't look directly at the Sharingan he could do it? Byakugan might give the user the abillity to see 360 degrees around, but it doesn't mean the user has to focus at everything around him. Mange Sharingan only work if you look directly at the Sharingan

how do you know that? Sharingan could be the worst match for a Byakugan.

[Unidentified]

Nine Devils. It's the other way around. Sharingan is ineffective against the byukagan. They can't use their own moves back on them because they can't do it. They can predict moves, well byukgan can see through object all around them and like HIashi did before sense their intent(killing intent with Hizashi in the flashback).

Hunter. YOu said the amatseru(spelled wrong I think) and the other jutsu is on a different level than the byuakgan moves. Look at the kaiten huge, fast and doesn't waset chakra. 1 hit kills, who knows Hiashi or other jounin hyuga's may be able to do lots of them without wasting their chakra. While just doing those 2 Itachi got tired.

Also the more powerful the user the more powerful the moves in terms of the byukgan. As seen by comparing Hiashi's kaiten(manga kaiten) to neji's.

[Hunter]

I thought that every Hyuuga, as they have Byakugan, can see the tenketsus. The hard part is to hit them during combat. Does it say somewhere that all Hyuugas can't SEE tenketsus?

During the first fight between Neji and Hinata.


The sharingan may be stronger against other users, but not against Hyuuga, as they won't be able to use anything against Hyuuga
Nine Devils. It's the other way around. Sharingan is ineffective against the byukagan. They can't use their own moves back on them because they can't do it.

Except to predict his moves, hypnotize him, use the vast amount of jutsus copied, crush his mind or even kill him inside the world of Tsukiyomi, vaporize him at sight with the Amaterasu?

If Gai, a person who doesn't have Byakugan, can fight the Sharingan by not looking Itachi In the eyes, then I would say that person just as skilled as Itachi just with Byakugan instead, would stand a really good chance),

You don't fight a bloodline, you fight an user, and Gai isn't even close to the level of Itachi, to be the better Taijutsu specialist of the whole series only allows him not to be hypnotized, that's all.

Hunter. You said the amatseru(spelled wrong I think) and the other jutsu is on a different level than the byuakgan moves. Look at the kaiten huge, fast and doesn't waset chakra. 1 hit kills, who knows Hiashi or other jounin hyuga's may be able to do lots of them without wasting their chakra. While just doing those 2 Itachi got tired.

The Kaiten uses a large amount of chakra, and the bigger is your Kaiten, the more chakra you will use.

Also the more powerful the user the more powerful the moves in terms of the byukgan. As seen by comparing Hiashi's kaiten(manga kaiten) to neji's.

That's the case for everything, bloodline or not.

[Terriator]

Hunter--> What I meant was that if gai, a person not having Byakugan are able to move against the Sharingan, then a person with that much control of the sight can do the sam. A user of Byakugan could properly focus at everything but the head of the Sharingan user, meaning that the Sharing couldn't hypnotize him and kill him inside the world of sharingan. You say that Sharingan can predict their moves, but you forget that Byakugan is even better at doing that.

And I didn't say that Gai had a chance against Itachi. What I stated was that this thread is about what bloodline is strongest and not which possesor of a bloodline is strongest

/Terriator

[Hunter]

Hunter--> What I meant was that if gai, a person not having Byakugan are able to move against the Sharingan, then a person with that much control of the sight can do the sam.

I know what you meant, and that has no sens at all, you don't move against a Sharingan but against a Sharingan user.
Gai can fight without looking at all at the eyes of his opponent because he's an incredible Taijutsu specialist, you can't do that because you have the Byakugan but only if you're as good as him in Taijutsu.

A user of Byakugan could properly focus at everything but the head of the Sharingan user, meaning that the Sharing couldn't hypnotize him and kill him inside the world of sharingan.

Oh? That's something new, since when the Byakugan can see at everything but one thing?

You say that Sharingan can predict their moves, but you forget that Byakugan is even better at doing that.

No, the Byakugan doesn't predict moves at all, it sees almost all what happens around the user, it's an ability anchored in the present.

[kaizoku_65]

If i could, i would take the Sharingan mostly coz of the ability to copy moves plus the eyes just look cool. I owuld hoeever be missing out on seeing someone's insides and a 360 degree view of things (bummer). Damn, not easy to pick is it?

[raikage]

...and like HIashi did before sense their intent(killing intent with Hizashi in the flashback).
You can sense killing intent without the Byakugan.

Hunter, the Byakugan's susceptibility to genjutsu is still unknown. We still don't know for sure whether or not Tsukiyomi would work - since from what we've seen, Byakugan interprets the world in a COMPLETELY different way than regular eyes or even the Sharingan - which still gives you enhanced real-world sight.

As much as we want to say that this discussion is about the bloodline itself, it really does come down to the users. It is not unreasonable to say that a Byakugan user will often be faster than a Sharingan user, just like how you can also say that a Sharingan user will pretty much always know more ninjutsu than a Byakugan user.
This comes into play most notably when you begin talking about chakra and stamina - the two techniques referred to as the best trump cards of the Sharingan are ridiculously chakra-intensive, which may render them unusable when facing multiple opponents (This is before I mention the other copied jutsus, which may or may not consume large amounts of chakra). A Byakugan strategy, when facing multiple opponents or a really, really long fight, can conserve chakra by using quickness and taijutsu for repeated hits rather than the all-or-nothing gambles.

[Kouji]

Well, sharingan's definitely my best attack related ability. And it'd be great because you can reflect your opponents back at them. Because you can also copy Neji's 360 degree maneuver. And even that one guy that had a tornado type of attack which wiped out the enemies.

[Hunter]

Hunter, the Byakugan's susceptibility to genjutsu is still unknown. We still don't know for sure whether or not Tsukiyomi would work - since from what we've seen, Byakugan interprets the world in a COMPLETELY different way than regular eyes or even the Sharingan - which still gives you enhanced real-world sight.


Raikage, I will quote yourself about the Itachi has a summon or not point :
Until it's shown that Itachi has one, or even his mentioning that he has one, he doesn't. It really is just that simple.
It's true.
And it's true for everything in the manga, to say that the Byakugan would be immunized against the Tsukiyomi is as untrue as to say that Kabuto is immunized against it because he has glasses.

And besides the manga doesn't show that the Byakugan interprets the world in a completely different way than regular eyes (except for the almost 360° thingy of course) when Neji trained in the forest at the beginning of this arc, the representation of what he saw was normal... if he had eyes in his back :p

As much as we want to say that this discussion is about the bloodline itself, it really does come down to the users. It is not unreasonable to say that a Byakugan user will often be faster than a Sharingan user, just like how you can also say that a Sharingan user will pretty much always know more ninjutsu than a Byakugan user.

I hesitate about this one, mainly because the whole Uchiha clan was a considered as genius even if only a little elite of them had the Sharingan, was it even possible that a no-prodigy ninja could have been a Sharingan user?
When Gai states that Sasuke was about Lee's speed after just 2 weeks of training he was just saying : 'So that's the Uchiha clan', as it wasn't really surprising for one of them.

Anyway I completely agree that a ninja such as the Hyuga who are heavely specialized in Taijutsu will be often faster than other ninjas, simply because it's one of the main point of their training.
But the Uchiha can learn Genjutsu and Ninjutsu almost on the spot, literally in a glance, actually, to train their body's capacities (such as speed, reflexes, chakra control and emission, amount of chakra, etc.) are the only thing that they must train all the time because they can be copied.

This comes into play most notably when you begin talking about chakra and stamina - the two techniques referred to as the best trump cards of the Sharingan are ridiculously chakra-intensive, which may render them unusable when facing multiple opponents (This is before I mention the other copied jutsus, which may or may not consume large amounts of chakra). A Byakugan strategy, when facing multiple opponents or a really, really long fight, can conserve chakra by using quickness and taijutsu for repeated hits rather than the all-or-nothing gambles.

Well there is no reason that the Tsukiyomi doesn't work on multiple opponents if they look into Itachi's eyes as well, and the effect area of the Amaterasu can consume several opponents at the same time too.
But I understand your point, against a huge amount of opponent these jutsus aren't the most useful, that's the reason why I still think that Itachi is better than the Sannin in a 1 vs.1 fight but not in a 1 vs. X number of people (until the manga shows that Itachi has some incredible huge area effect jutsu or Godzilla-class summon anyway).

But a Sharingan master isn't forced to use these 2 jutsus all the time, an explosive Kage Bunshin or any of the multiple jutsu that he knows can deal with this kind of situation.

[Nine Devil]

Why does everybody think that Itachi has only 4 jutsu's :/ he just only showed 4. He is a ninja who probably has coppied many jutsu's so ofcourse he can deal with x amount of users. Its just stupid to assume a Sannin is better in vs x amount of enemy's. They never showed a Sannin using a jutsu who wiped like 10 people. Well againts a strong person then. Cuz assuming just because Itachi showed some high jutsu's who seems effective on 1 vs 1 fights is because he actually only been in 1 vs 1 fights. Anyways i big fight will happen soon i hope.

[raikage]

We've seen that Neji sees Naruto's body in a chakra-lines sort of way.

When Neji is training at the beginning of the arc, he can see through trees. He sees the tree through the post, and the bird through the tree. If this is true (the Byakugan lets you see through solid objects), then it must also be true that you can somehow still see the objects, or else you would hear lots of stories of Hyuuga running into trees or falling into ditches. :twitch:

These two imply that the Byakugan see things in a vastly different way than the Sharingan. Remember that when Sasuke used the Sharingan in the Forest against the genjutsu, he could see the genjutsy bodies as chakra lumps. Everything else was normal.

It's true that a Sharingan user wouldn't use chakra-intensive jutsus when fighting multiple opponents (or probably wouldn't - unless there IS some sort of super-multiple-enemy-jutsu), but I can't see an argument where the Sharingan is better than the Byakugan when fighting multiple opponents. The Byakugan, after all, has that crazy 360º vision and the Kaiten (which I think we agreed as "cannot be copied").

[Unidentified]

Hunter. I'm not talkign about the sharignan and the byukagan in general. I'm talking about them versus each other. Althogh I still believe Byukgan can is better. Well an advanced hyuga user is better but not so advanced sharingan user vs. a not so advanced byukgan user is better. So I'm talking aobut the limit of those 2. Though we've seen mroe of the sharingan.

The moves you mentioned aside from the fire move. Do you know if they will work agaisnt a Hyuga? The genjutsu and the hypnotism. It's a fact that they can't copy their jutsus. The hyuga's can see the world in a different way than normal, they dont' have to focus on the eyes which according to Gai and Kakashi is the way to beat it. They can just look at the chakra holes.

About the prediction. How does it actually work? In the anime it showed Sasuke seeing things in slow motion, little by little, being able to predicct things like that. Or is it actually the future and the sharingan as another move never mentioned that allows them to do that. I'm not sure about this one, espeically since I haven't read that fight yet in the manga, the haku and the lee fight which shows that slow motionthing at the sam etime.

In a way the hyuga cna predic ttings too. Tehy cannot be caught off gaurd iwth the byukagan activated. They can see 359-360, through objects, and as I mentioned before Hiashi predicted or rather sensed Hizashi had a killing intent when he was training Hinata. Can't the same thing be done for moves?


We've seen fully mastered sharingan with (just an assumption but I think it's true) with all it's move aside form a taijutsu move which I'm thinking it has. But we've seen only a genin hyuga and that's it. Although we do know that they are capable of 1 hit kills without getting themselves tired(better than the sharingan moves, although the only drawback is it's close combat).

About the kaiten wasting huge amounts of chakra like you said. Neji a genin was able to do lots of them. He was never tired from that, only from facing off agaisnt kyubi naruto. And that was after the 64 hands. If he can do that. He must have more than massive amoutns of chakra. but he doens't. They are good at controlling chakra, meaining that less chakra is wasted. It may be only a little. Considering the amount Neji did and wasn't even tired.

[Hunter]

We've seen that Neji sees Naruto's body in a chakra-lines sort of way.
When Neji is training at the beginning of the arc, he can see through trees. He sees the tree through the post, and the bird through the tree. If this is true (the Byakugan lets you see through solid objects), then it must also be true that you can somehow still see the objects, or else you would hear lots of stories of Hyuuga running into trees or falling into ditches. :twitch:


It's exactly my point, the Byakugan sees everything, if a ninja is hidden behind a tree a kunai behind his back, then a Byakugan user will see the tree and the guy, and his inner coil, and the kunai (and the squirrel still behind all that :p).

Once again, the Byakugan isn't know to erase a part of what the user sees to see something else behind (like you said, Hyuuga don't run into trees :D), but to see everything.

A Hyuga would see the inner coil of a Sharingan master.
And his eyes as well.

These two imply that the Byakugan see things in a vastly different way than the Sharingan. Remember that when Sasuke used the Sharingan in the Forest against the genjutsu, he could see the genjutsy bodies as chakra lumps. Everything else was normal.


lol differently speaking, Sasuke's vision was normal except for the abnormal things ;)
Like I said, the manga has showed that the Byakugan's vision sees everything at almost 360°.
Everything else was normal (haha I wanted to say that too :D)

It's true that a Sharingan user wouldn't use chakra-intensive jutsus when fighting multiple opponents (or probably wouldn't - unless there IS some sort of super-multiple-enemy-jutsu), but I can't see an argument where the Sharingan is better than the Byakugan when fighting multiple opponents. The Byakugan, after all, has that crazy 360º vision and the Kaiten (which I think we agreed as "cannot be copied").

Well it's debatable that the Byakugan's ability to see everything around would be better than the abilities to analyze and copy jutsu against several ninjutsu/genjutsu user for example, but I agree that in a general case, the Byakugan is better in a scuffle.


Nine Devil : Godzilla-class-Summon for example?

[Nine Devil]

Nine Devil : Godzilla-class-Summon for example?

You know he has it :)

[Hunter]

Hunter. I'm not talkign about the sharignan and the byukagan in general. I'm talking about them versus each other. Althogh I still believe Byukgan can is better. Well an advanced hyuga user is better but not so advanced sharingan user vs. a not so advanced byukgan user is better. So I'm talking aobut the limit of those 2. Though we've seen mroe of the sharingan.


Noooooooo way?
'Except to predict his moves, hypnotize him, use the vast amount of jutsus copied, crush his mind or even kill him inside the world of Tsukiyomi, vaporize him at sight with the Amaterasu?'

I didn't say that the Sharingan user could copy jutsu because that's the only thing that he can't do against a Hyuga.

About the prediction. How does it actually work? In the anime it showed Sasuke seeing things in slow motion, little by little, being able to predicct things like that. Or is it actually the future and the sharingan as another move never mentioned that allows them to do that. I'm not sure about this one, espeically since I haven't read that fight yet in the manga, the haku and the lee fight which shows that slow motionthing at the sam etime.

Uh?
Firstly, the Sharingan didn't allow its user to see the futur and I don't remember that the manga says that the Sharingan sees in slow motion.
The Sharingan can read and analyze Taijutsu as well as the others kind of jutsu,
and with enough time to completely read the way of figthing of his opponent, the Sharingan user can know slightly in advance how his opponent will move and thus start to react to the move slightly before it happens.

In a way the hyuga cna predic ttings too. Tehy cannot be caught off gaurd iwth the byukagan activated. They can see 359-360, through objects, and as I mentioned before Hiashi predicted or rather sensed Hizashi had a killing intent when he was training Hinata. Can't the same thing be done for moves?

What? That's not predicting at all, a Hyuga can't be caught off guard because he can see everything in the present, they can't predict a move, they can react to it better.
That's completely different.

Hiashi never predicted anything (do you really know what this word mean? http://kaosounet.free.fr/gif/cwm13.gif) he merely sensed Hizashi killing intent, that's not even a Byakugan ability, about every ninja can do that.

We've seen fully mastered sharingan with (just an assumption but I think it's true) with all it's move aside form a taijutsu move which I'm thinking it has. But we've seen only a genin hyuga and that's it. Although we do know that they are capable of 1 hit kills without getting themselves tired(better than the sharingan moves, although the only drawback is it's close combat).

lol once again, To say that maybe the Byakugan will have something more isn't an argument, as far as we know it hasn't.
Actually, to use that as an argument is pretty much the same as to say that for the moment you think that the Sharingan's better because the Byakugan needs something more :p

Then, the Jyuken is surely an incredible fighting style, actually I think that the advanced Jyuken of Neji (with the Tenketsu) is the best and deadliest Taijutsu style of the whole serie.
But the 1 hit kills isn't reserved to the Hyuga,
the Chakra Scalpel is only second to the advanced Jyuken and is even better than the Jyuken of a regular Hyuga member.

You can pare the Jyuken with your hands and harms (just look at Hinata vs. Neji), you must 'just' avoid at all cost to be hit at the main body where are the inner organs.
That's impossible against the advanced Jyuken of Neji because he will just seal the Tenketsu of your arms as Hinata sadly (http://kaosounet.free.fr/gif/mal.gif) noticed.
And that's impossible too against someone using the Chakra Scalpel because if you pare with your harm, your muscles and/or bones will be cut.
And as the Jyuken, a direct hit to the heart can kill an opponent at once.

And that's just a hand seals, something that a Sharingan user can copy in a glance.

About the kaiten wasting huge amounts of chakra like you said. Neji a genin was able to do lots of them. He was never tired from that, only from facing off agaisnt kyubi naruto. And that was after the 64 hands. If he can do that. He must have more than massive amoutns of chakra. but he doens't. They are good at controlling chakra, meaining that less chakra is wasted. It may be only a little. Considering the amount Neji did and wasn't even tired.

lol firstly the 64 hands is almost a pure Taijutsu move, it doesn't waste chakra, then the Kaiten use a large amount of chakra, it's stated in the manga when Neji use the Kaiten against Naruto (and anyway it's fairly obvious if you ask me).
Neji's a genious at chakra's control and at convert stamina into chakra, way better than about anyone actually (for his age anyway), and he does has a massive amount of chakra.

Nine Devil, do I think that it's probable that Itachi has some kind of summon?
Yes, I think that's extremely probable.
But as Raikage said, until it's shown that Itachi has one, or even his mentioning that he has one, he doesn't. It really is just that simple.

And even if he has one, that doesn't mean that he has the crazy amount of chakra of the Sannin to summon a Godilla-class summon.
As the 3rd had Enma and not some gigantic monkey.

[Ke0]

To say that maybe the Byakugan will have something more isn't an argument, as far as we know it hasn't.
Actually, to use that as an argument is pretty much the same as to say that for the moment you think that the Sharingan's better because the Byakugan needs something more

That's not true because we don't know if there is more to the Byakugen, hell we don't even know if the 3 attacks of the Mange Sharigan are all that's left, there could be things that Itachi overlooked (no pun intended) or the fact that he just doesn't know.

[wb_hicks]

i also dont think that the byukagan when activated will be affected by the sharingan bloodlimit genjutsu. and the reason is the fact that they see everything. if you think back to when gai was talking about how to face the sharingan he says that it all depends on where your eyes are focused. when a hyuga is using his 360 degree vision you cant say he is focusing on any one spot because he is seeing everything. as long as they dont focus on the sharingan users eyes they will be able to avoid the jutsu. now that doesnt mean that they are imune to the technique. even if they are able to see 360 if they focus on the eyes just once the sharingan can put them in the jutsu. when naruto was learning the rensagen can also be used as an example. the piece of paper that jaraiya used. when its blank you can say thats how the byukagan sees things. their eyes isnt focued on one spot but just all over the place. now everyone else and when its not activated is like when he puts a dot on the paper. the eyes tend to focus on a general area.

[Hunter]

That's just wrong.
Gai said that you mustn't look at the eyes at all, that's why you must only look at the Sharingan user's feet and grasp the enemy's move just from his feet movement alone.

Think. If not you would just have to be focused on his mouth or his neck or whatever and that would be all.

And put spoiler tags in your post.

[Coder8]

Hmm hunter there is a problem.
If you looking at the persons neck is bad,since your eyes are still taking them in,then all the person has to do is slightly move his head and get the enemies eye field of vision in his and BAM its over. It has to be a link of some sort that a direct stare gives off,or else why the feet also? True it may be easier to look away and harder for the person to move his head into the persons fov.

I think its more complicated then we know.

[Unidentified]

First of all, just because it's a large summon doesn't mean it's stronger.

What you said about the sensing thing Hunter is wrong. So every ninja has the level of insight as the hyuga? You seem to hate the hyuga for some reason. Even Neji once again only a genin and a branch family member was able to read all of Hinata's emotions basically thoughts easily, although considering her a lot of people would be able to do that. But he did the same with Naruto.

According to you, the jyukagen's moves take massive amounts of chakra. About every ninja has the level of insight as someone with the byukagan. The sharingan can predict heaps into the feature. You somehow think it's more possible for the sharingan to have more moves than the byukagan. And that the 1 hit kills things with no chakra wasted is very common(chidori and rasengan take massive amounts). '

Also Gai said don't "focus" on the user's eye. With the byukagan eactivated they won't focus on their eyes. It can be like not seeing htem at all but their chakra pathways.

I do think you are very biased.

[Nine Devil]

First of all, just because it's a large summon doesn't mean it's stronger.

What you said about the sensing thing Hunter is wrong. So every ninja has the level of insight as the hyuga? You seem to hate the hyuga for some reason. Even Neji once again only a genin and a branch family member was able to read all of Hinata's emotions basically thoughts easily, although considering her a lot of people would be able to do that. But he did the same with Naruto.

According to you, the jyukagen's moves take massive amounts of chakra. About every ninja has the level of insight as someone with the byukagan. The sharingan can predict heaps into the feature. You somehow think it's more possible for the sharingan to have more moves than the byukagan. And that the 1 hit kills things with no chakra wasted is very common(chidori and rasengan take massive amounts). '

Also Gai said don't "focus" on the user's eye. With the byukagan eactivated they won't focus on their eyes. It can be like not seeing htem at all but their chakra pathways.

I do think you are very biased.

Its called Sakki, its just a killer intent everybody can feel it. Every ninja there are many other anime's where it is used. Example Hajime No Ippo

[Hunter]

I do think you are very biased.

lol Unidentified you're funny, I like people who're only able to say you're biased or such, when they become unable to defend their point.
It's even funnier when they're obviously so biaised themself that they didn't understand half of what going on with the current discussion, in your case it's even worse, you basically didn't understand a single point.

First of all, just because it's a large summon doesn't mean it's stronger.

I never say that Gamabunta & co must be stronger than Enma, I say that they're better to attack with a huge area effect and thus better against many opponent together (I suppose I'm biaised for the Sannin heh?).

What you said about the sensing thing Hunter is wrong. So every ninja has the level of insight as the hyuga? You seem to hate the hyuga for some reason. Even Neji once again only a genin and a branch family member was able to read all of Hinata's emotions basically thoughts easily, although considering her a lot of people would be able to do that. But he did the same with Naruto.


You just don't know about what you talk about, the Byakugan has nothing to do with feeling a killing intent, that's what Sasuke felt the first time they faced Zabuza, that's what Oro used to paralyze Sakura and Sasuke, that's what he used once again to scare Kakashi.
The capacity to feel the Saki, the murderous intent, isn't about a particular insight at all.

And once again the whole thing about to know that if your pupils look at the left top you remember the past, that if you lie you will look at the right and this kind of thing isn't a Byakugan ability, not that this bloodline can't help because with it you will not miss a single details, but the Sharingan or any people with a good sens of attention can do the same.

And btw, the Hyuga's bloodline is awesome, they have the better Taijutsu style, they have the style, they're fashion and Neji is one of the coolest character in the whole series.

According to you, the jyukagen's moves take massive amounts of chakra. About every ninja has the level of insight as someone with the byukagan. The sharingan can predict heaps into the feature. You somehow think it's more possible for the sharingan to have more moves than the byukagan. And that the 1 hit kills things with no chakra wasted is very common(chidori and rasengan take massive amounts).

lol that becomes priceless :heh:
1/ No I said exactly the opposite, the Jyuken is mainly a Taijutsu using a little chakra and thus is more about stamina than chakra except for the Kaiten which use the chakra directly as a weapon and use a large amount of chakra : it's stated in the manga.

2/Into the feature? If you mean the future then you should read a post when you answer to it that can be useful given that I precicely said that the Sharingan can't read into the future.
Then it's stated that the Sharingan user can predict the moves on his opponent, it's said in the fight against Haku, it's said in the fight against Gaara, and it's re-hinted in the fight against Rock Lee when he said that even if the Sharingan can read his movements it's useless because Sasuke's body hasn't the reflexes to use that. So once again : it's stated in the manga

3/Read my posts instead of making a fool of yourself, i never said that it was impossible for the Byakugan to have more abilities (and not more moves sigh http://kaosounet.free.fr/gif/rolleyes.gif), I said that until they would be showed in the manga you can't say that new abilities exist.

4/I never say that it was common, I say that it wasn't unique to the Hyuga and I never speak about the Chidori or the R*. jutsu, they're punctual jutsu, not something that you can use to permanently upgrade your fighting style during a whole fight.

Also Gai said don't "focus" on the user's eye. With the byukagan eactivated they won't focus on their eyes. It can be like not seeing htem at all but their chakra pathways.

Once again re-watch the manga or anime instead of saying stupidities, Neji never stops to comment how are the eyes of his opponent, things don't disappear when you use the Byakugan, it's the opposite.
The Byakugan isn't a uninsight ability who would allow not to be focused on everything ( :heh: ), it's exactly the opposite, an crazy insight ability allowing to notice every single details at almost 360°.

[Unidentified]

In reading your opponent. You seem to think even in your latest post that anybody can do it as good as the Hyuga. Kakashi specifically said that they have a high level of insight. When it comes to looking at people it's worse than say looking the environment?

I said your biased based on the fact that I remember someone saying it(well it might have been nine devil) that siad something along the lines of that it's more possible that the sharingan has more moves that hasn't been shown than the byukagan. That's quite stupid in my opinion. How am I biased?

The quote if you call it that about Rock Lee. There's a difference between reading your movements and seeing into the future and knowing what they're going to do.

I never said that you think it's impossible that the byukagan as more abilites. read the first paragraph of my post about that.

I don't base all my things on comments. If you see the time in the manga where Neji looks at Shino you see how they see the opponenets when they look into them. I don't see any eyes solidly there.
You seem to think that all you say is facts.

[Hunter]

In reading your opponent. You seem to think even in your latest post that anybody can do it as good as the Hyuga. Kakashi specifically said that they have a high level of insight. When it comes to looking at people it's worse than say looking the environment?


I become tired to cut and past sentences of my own posts because you seem to have some difficulty ro read them : not that this bloodline [the Byakugan] can't help because with it you will not miss a single details, but the Sharingan or any people with a good sens of attention can do the same.

When did I say that the Byakugan's capacity to look at people should be worse than looking the environment blahblahblah?

Never. It's that difficult to stop to invent point and just read what I say instead?

I said your biased based on the fact that I remember someone saying it(well it might have been nine devil) that siad something along the lines of that it's more possible that the sharingan has more moves that hasn't been shown than the byukagan. That's quite stupid in my opinion. How am I biased?

Differently speaking, you said that i'm biaised because someone else said something that I personally didn't say.
...
Your logic makes perfect sens.

The quote if you call it that about Rock Lee. There's a difference between reading your movements and seeing into the future and knowing what they're going to do.

Okey now that becomes worrying.
You did notice that I say 2 or 3 times that the Sharingan can't see into the future right?

I never said that you think it's impossible that the byukagan as more abilites. read the first paragraph of my post about that.
=
You somehow think it's more possible for the sharingan to have more moves than the byukagan

You don't read my post, you answer to other people's belief as it was mine and now you also forget your own post?

I don't base all my things on comments. If you see the time in the manga where Neji looks at Shino you see how they see the opponenets when they look into them. I don't see any eyes solidly there.

lol yeah I noticed that, when something doesn't please you, you just ignore it.
The manga states that the Kainten use a large amount of chakra? Who cares.
The manga states that the Sharingan can predict the moves? Who cares.
The manga states that the Byakugan see everything including eyes? Who cares.
The manga shows plenty of people feeling murderous intent? Who cares.
...
No wonder you seem to not read what I'm saying, you probably just ignore what you don't like.

Then try to think at least a little, it's imposible to draw what the Hyuga see, the panels in the manga would be all black by the innumerable features of every single things around.

That's as stupid as to say that Neji doesn't hit 64 times during the 64 hands of Hakke because Kishimoto didn't draw every single of the 64 impacts but just much of them http://kaosounet.free.fr/gif/rolleyes.gif

You seem to think that all you say is facts.
No, i think that everything that the manga states is a fact, contrary to you who 'doesn't base all your things on comments' in the manga.

[Unidentified]

I become tired to cut and past sentences of my own posts because you seem to have some difficulty ro read them : not that this bloodline [the Byakugan] can't help because with it you will not miss a single details, but the Sharingan or any people with a good sens of attention can do the same.

When did I say that the Byakugan's capacity to look at people should be worse than looking the environment blahblahblah?

Never. It's that difficult to stop to invent point and just read what I say instead?

You even posted it again. You said "but the sharingan or any people with a good sense of attention can do the same". Same as what? You were talking about the byukagan so it looks like you say it can do the same as the byukgan.



Differently speaking, you said that i'm biaised because someone else said something that I personally didn't say.
...
Your logic makes perfect sens.

... I meant that whoever posted it, I thought it was you at first but it might have been Nine-Devil(well the sharingan avatar is a clue) is biased. Favors one thing over another just so you know what biased means.



Okey now that becomes worrying.
You did notice that I say 2 or 3 times that the Sharingan can't see into the future right?

I wasn't sure about that one, I never said you did by the way. I just didn' t understand what you meant.




lol yeah I noticed that, when something doesn't please you, you just ignore it.
The manga states that the Kainten use a large amount of chakra? Who cares.
The manga states that the Sharingan can predict the moves? Who cares.
The manga states that the Byakugan see everything including eyes? Who cares.
The manga shows plenty of people feeling murderous intent? Who cares.
...

The manga never states that the byukagan can see everything including eyes all the time. It never says that. They dont' make the veins pop out for no reason. Like Hinata did that move that allowed her to see great distances. Neji was able to see through Shino(that thing I'm talking about) with whatever move he did, not incluidng the eyes, the eyes were not opaque.

The murderous intent, there's a reason that I also gave an example of Neji and Hinate fight. They have greater perception I think that would also mean they can see how the person reacts to things better also.

I know the manga says that sharingan can predict moves. You can say that predicting is knowing what they would do best on what you know about them or seeing them do the move in an extremely slow and detailed way(what i think it does as shown in the anime) or ou can say that it can see in the future which I doubt it can.


No wonder you seem to not read what I'm saying, you probably just ignore what you don't like.

I can say the same thing to you.


Then try to think at least a little, it's imposible to draw what the Hyuga see, the panels in the manga would be all black by the innumerable features of every single things around.

That's as stupid as to say that Neji doesn't hit 64 times during the 64 hands of Hakke because Kishimoto didn't draw every single of the 64 impacts but just much of them http://kaosounet.free.fr/gif/rolleyes.gif
[\quote]
Reread the time Neji sees Shino.

[quote]
No, i think that everything that the manga states is a fact, contrary to you who 'doesn't base all your things on comments' in the manga.

I base things not only on comments in the manga, but on what he draws also. And if I don't I say I think and probably if you haven't noticed.


I added quotes just in case you forget what you posed again.

[Nine Devil]

Unidentified, mention my one more time i will report you.

[Ke0]

how do you know that? Sharingan could be the worst match for a Byakugan.

Or Byakugan could be the worst matchup for a Sharigan user, yes even the almighty Godlike Itachi.

[Hunter]

You even posted it again. You said "but the sharingan or any people with a good sense of attention can do the same". Same as what? You were talking about the byukagan so it looks like you say it can do the same as the byukgan.

You just have to read my post to know that...
I (because it seems that it wasn't a 'we' after all) discussed of the ability to say that someone is scared because he touches his lips, that he thinks about the past by looking to the left top, that he lies by looking at the blahblahblah.

It isn't a capacity of the Byakugan, you just have to look closely at the face of someone to do the same.

The manga never states that the byukagan can see everything including eyes all the time. It never says that. They dont' make the veins pop out for no reason. Like Hinata did that move that allowed her to see great distances. Neji was able to see through Shino(that thing I'm talking about) with whatever move he did, not incluidng the eyes, the eyes were not opaque.
Neji just used his Byakugan, as he did when he fought Naruto and commented about his eyes and as he did against Hinata and commented about her eyes (Neji like people's eyes :D)

Once again when Kishimoto draw a Byakugan vision, he didn't draw all what a Hyuga sees, it's impossible.
When Neji looked at Shino, the manga shows the bugs because it's the current point, Neji is still able to see though Shino but it's not drawn because the panel would be illegible.
That's the same when Neji and Hinata looked at each others with the Byakugan, there wasn't any background at all, all the panel was grey.
That doesn't mean that when they look at the inner coil they become unable to see around them, just that the important point was to show the inner coils system.

The murderous intent, there's a reason that I also gave an example of Neji and Hinate fight. They have greater perception I think that would also mean they can see how the person reacts to things better also.

The Byakugan isn't about perception, that's only a question of greatness of the ninja.
That's like Itachi feeling Sasuke's arrival in his back, he hasn't the Byakugan to see behind him, he just senced him.
And anyway Hiashi wasn't even using the Byakugan when he sensed the saki of his brother lol

In the other hand, it's true that a Byakugan user can react to thing better since he can see every single details that happens at the same time.

I know the manga says that sharingan can predict moves. You can say that predicting is knowing what they would do best on what you know about them or seeing them do the move in an extremely slow and detailed way(what i think it does as shown in the anime) or ou can say that it can see in the future which I doubt it can.
Seeing something extremely slow isn't predicting at all (at which part of the anime do you refer btw?) and the Sharingan can't see in the future, it was stated at the beginning of the series.
The Sharingan can see through a Taijutsu style as well as a Ninjutsu or Genjutsu, once the user has understand the way of moving of the opponent he can predict the moves, that's what Sasuke did against Haku and Gaara.

I can say the same thing to you.
Oh really? Care to show me something that you said and that I ignored? Or something stated in the manga that I would have ignored?

Reread the time Neji sees Shino.
I spoke about that above, what's the relation with the fact that it's impossible to draw all what the Byakugan can see?

[Necrodeath]

Omg hunter, you must really like this thread.

Ok, I'm not going to add something to the discussion here, since my lack of knowledge of them both will probably end up in saying that "I'm wrong" and "it's not true", or, "it doesn't work that way". All I can say is that I read Dragon Flame's signature thingy, and that I was convinced afterwards... :heh:

[Ke0]

The Byakugan isn't about perception, that's only a question of greatness of the ninja.
That's like Itachi feeling Sasuke's arrival in his back, he hasn't the Byakugan to see behind him, he just senced him.
And anyway Hiashi wasn't even using the Byakugan when he sensed the saki of his brother lol

He didn't sense Sasuke, he heard him, I mean the guy was screaming Naruto and running pretty hard, you'd have to be an idiot not to hear him coming.

You could say the Byakugan does have increased perception as well, like when Neji pretty much described Naruto's feelings, Neji doesn't know Naruto, he only met the kid at the Chunnin exams, before that he never knew Naruto, he's only seem him for a short time.

Saki = a point, tip, end, could be used for penisula

Sakki = thirst for blood

[aptenergy]

Um, Hunter... speculation != truth.

We have no idea how the Byakugan responds to genjutsu. What is it susceptible to? What can it see through? Can anyone provide me with an example of Neji or Hinata or Hizashi or Hiashi even encountering genjutsu?

Think about Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan. If Byakugan were to see the eye, according to people here, it would see the surface of the eye, the chakra coil system behind the eye, the flesh behind the eye, the stuff 50 feet in back of the Sharingan user, etc. etc. At what point does the genjutsu completely overwhelm the Byakugan user? Is it what's in the pupil? The cornea? The rods and cones of the three spots (I have no idea what they're called)?

Oh wait, we have no documentation of where that "overwhelming" happens. My point is that everyone should just sit and wait for an answer from Kishimoto. We're constantly hearing stuff from both sides about how good each side is, yet nothing has been settled. Either Kishimoto will settle the issue by having them fight, or he's going to give people more reasons to polarize themselves over whatever they like (or leave everything as it is, in which case people still debate over this issue).

And also, Neji is the only one who is known for looking at people's eyes and interpreting their feelings. "Everyone can do that," sure, but I'm guessing that the fact that only Neji is noted for doing it (maybe someone has 300 examples to prove the opposite) means that it's something that Neji is very good at. Since I have no evidence otherwise to indicate that this is just an aspect of his personality, I'm guessing that it's attributed to the fact that he has Byakugan.

I find it hard to believe that the increased insight that Byakugan gives is limited to seeing chakra flowing through objects. Insight has a much more mental aspect to it; it's not just X-ray vision. The Sharingan offers mental insight because you can identify, analyze, predict and imitate jutsu.

And by the way, it's really not that easy to quickly interpret that much information from people's eyes. Neji was reading and interpreting in real time with what everyone accepts as 100% accuracy. Try it yourself. Sure, you can detect hesitation, but it's not as simple to make the conclusions he was making.

[Green Dragon]

I say Byakugan. Because of the strength of the taigitsu and the ultimate defence. Both Neji and Sasuke can kill an oponent with one move but the chidori can only be done twice, where as the thing that Neji does he can do all throughout the fight. Plus Neji never wimped out in a fight, all u sasuke lovers take that.


:argue: :heh: :argue:

[Ke0]

Um, Hunter... speculation != truth.

We have no idea how the Byakugan responds to genjutsu. What is it susceptible to? What can it see through? Can anyone provide me with an example of Neji or Hinata or Hizashi or Hiashi even encountering genjutsu?

Think about Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan. If Byakugan were to see the eye, according to people here, it would see the surface of the eye, the chakra coil system behind the eye, the flesh behind the eye, the stuff 50 feet in back of the Sharingan user, etc. etc. At what point does the genjutsu completely overwhelm the Byakugan user? Is it what's in the pupil? The cornea? The rods and cones of the three spots (I have no idea what they're called)?

Oh wait, we have no documentation of where that "overwhelming" happens. My point is that everyone should just sit and wait for an answer from Kishimoto. We're constantly hearing stuff from both sides about how good each side is, yet nothing has been settled. Either Kishimoto will settle the issue by having them fight, or he's going to give people more reasons to polarize themselves over whatever they like (or leave everything as it is, in which case people still debate over this issue).

And also, Neji is the only one who is known for looking at people's eyes and interpreting their feelings. "Everyone can do that," sure, but I'm guessing that the fact that only Neji is noted for doing it (maybe someone has 300 examples to prove the opposite) means that it's something that Neji is very good at. Since I have no evidence otherwise to indicate that this is just an aspect of his personality, I'm guessing that it's attributed to the fact that he has Byakugan.

I find it hard to believe that the increased insight that Byakugan gives is limited to seeing chakra flowing through objects. Insight has a much more mental aspect to it; it's not just X-ray vision. The Sharingan offers mental insight because you can identify, analyze, predict and imitate jutsu.

And by the way, it's really not that easy to quickly interpret that much information from people's eyes. Neji was reading and interpreting in real time with what everyone accepts as 100% accuracy. Try it yourself. Sure, you can detect hesitation, but it's not as simple to make the conclusions he was making.

I agree, but then again they won't because that means it's possible that the Byakugan is more powerful than Itachi's Sharigan, and that can NEVER happen

[Nine Devil]

I agree, but then again they won't because that means it's possible that the Byakugan is more powerful than Itachi's Sharigan, and that can NEVER happen

No it seems so. If Hiashi is the strongest of Hyuuga, and he is.

[raikage]

No it seems so. If Hiashi is the strongest of Hyuuga, and he is.

...okay...I didn't understand that at all...

[Nine Devil]

...okay...I didn't understand that at all...

No, Byakugan isn't stronger than Sharingan and there isn't a byakugan user stronger than Itachi.

[Hyuuga Neji]

No, Byakugan isn't stronger than Sharingan and there isn't a byakugan user stronger than Itachi.


We cant really say that until there is a fight between the strongest of Hyuuga and Itachi...and where does it say that Hiashi is the strongest?

[Unidentified]

Unidentified, mention my one more time i will report you.
Nine Devil. I just did, so report me.

When was it mentioned in the rules that proving someone's point wrong or mentioning it was wrong?

Your logic is false. You don't know if Hiashi is the strongest or not. And you don't know if he can take on Itachi by the way. The topic isn't the strongest Sharingan user vs. the strongest Byukagan user. We've seen a mastered sharingan but not of a byukagan.

[Nine Devil]

We cant really say that until there is a fight between the strongest of Hyuuga and Itachi...and where does it say that Hiashi is the strongest?

He is the leader of his clan, if there was among the main family someone stronger than him; he/she would have been the head.(If i remember correctly this was mentioned) Second Kakashi seems like 2 times stronger than Hiashi according the character data book.Kakashi got owned by Itachi.

[Nine Devil]

Nine Devil. I just did, so report me.

When was it mentioned in the rules that proving someone's point wrong or mentioning it was wrong?

Your logic is false. You don't know if Hiashi is the strongest or not. And you don't know if he can take on Itachi by the way. The topic isn't the strongest Sharingan user vs. the strongest Byukagan user. We've seen a mastered sharingan but not of a byukagan.

1-What are you talking about?As far as we know Hiashi has mastered it maybe even Neji.

2-How in the hell do you know if there is gonna be something told about Byakugan in the future. Its out of story now.

3-Check my post above.

edit: Oops double post :twitch: