Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Pellissier

2008-01-10, 03:11

Welcome to the discussion thread for Shakugan no Shana II, Episode 13.

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Tormenk

2008-01-10, 07:37

Pheles arrival can only mean the advent of some sorely needed action that's been missing from the show for quite some time now. That aside, I'm quite looking forward to her introduction since her awesome entrance in ep 12. :D

Keroko

2008-01-10, 08:16

I hope we get more of the awsome Pheles soundtrack. :3

EXEs

2008-01-10, 08:21

Yes, let the asskickin' (hopefully) begin!

Sinestra

2008-01-10, 11:31

Exactly what i have been waiting for hopefully its time to "Buckle up" for some serious distardly destruction with a spice of chaos.

Ellis

2008-01-10, 11:49

Besides, they are all there at the same time...
'Hope we'll hear more of Pheles soundtrack too! :D

A storm is coming !

ThoHell

2008-01-10, 15:25

Hmm, not sure how to express this episode. Guess I was hoping for more..oh well was still interesting.

piku

2008-01-10, 15:36

very good episode. battle scene, especially the one shana gave the last two attack to pheles, the motion just as smooth as movie quality. drawing style was above average, and new BGM is so good that make me cannot wait for the OST release.

not satisfy to some deletion and changes of script compare with novels. margery vs wilhelmina should be a intense battle, and wilhelmina has seen the complete picture of how Johan was seal in reiji maigo, and Sabrac insert some Jizaihou in it before its random transfer
that she needn't ask why pheles has to search for reiji maigo...

this episode complete the story on 1/2 of novel 12. so fast... telling the truth i prefer JC Staff put more time on battle scene and make better description on story and characters.

last but not least, wilhelmina's action to pheles just show that they are yuri...

Mentar

2008-01-10, 16:40

Good lord.

First half was utter madness. But done in an extremely good way. Excellent ep. Now on to the joyful task to somehow compress raws of 700+ megs size to normal releases >_<

Kyuusaisha

2008-01-10, 17:14

Tokkan

2008-01-10, 17:33

Ok, so the fix really felt nice considering I hadn't got one in 3 weeks. From the preview, with me not being able to read the novels I was wondering if it was going to go back to fillers again. Would love it if someone could clarify that for me.

HELO thar. Following episodes are material not in novels: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7. Everything else is not filler, except eps 8 and 9 which are from a sidestory collection.

serenade_beta

2008-01-10, 21:52

Ah, it's finally back! Though I never went into withdrawal though :p

The first half - HOLY SH**!! THAT WAS SO CRAZY!! GAHH! WOAH!! The people being skewered by glass, smashed by debris, the burning, Ogata turning into some broken lump of meat, Tanaka's scream of utter despair, Yuuji's screaming in general, the action!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most disturbing and most action-packed thing I've seen ever since this season started, and maybe even more than the whole season packed together!
Lots of going crazy from Pheles and Margery, to the point they couldn't see their surroundings!
Yuuji sure is lucky to have Azure with her.
Satou seemed to have guessed Yuuji was the one that casted the silver Seal, sharp!
*sympathizes with Tanaka* :(
Satou and Tanaka were able to calm Margery down... Whew...

Anyways... Wow. Very disturbing, very scary, and sent my tension skyrocketing to almost max levels!

A new, but dead(?) Denizen called Sabrac... So he was the one to finish off Johann and forced Pheles to place Johann in the Midnight Lost Child. Though it seems Sabrac himself inserted something inside it as well... Maybe the reason why Silver appears in Yuuji's seal?

As expected, Kazumi felt Yuuji moving farther from her...

Was Pheles talking to Fumina?... Obviously, Fumina's not normal... Even I need to admit it now... *sob*

Next time - Lots more Kazumi than this episode, more on Johann and Pheles; Eternal Lovers

10/10

cnnydz

2008-01-11, 05:29

whoa they went through half of vol12, so i guess it will be more intense next week then. maybe after 12 eps of relative quietness JC staff decided to go all out. however i don't know if they got enough material to make it a 20eps season, maybe an anime original ending?

A new, but dead(?) Denizen called Sabrac...

sabrac is not dead

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-11, 09:23

Three weeks is a long time to bear for such a cliffhanger.

In the flashback, just after Pheles stuffed Johann into the Reiji Maigo, and just before it makes its random teleportation, you can just catch a glimpse of a thread of Unrestricted Spell entering the Reiji Maigo for a second. That would probably be where "Silver" came from.

The reason Rammy refused to reveal where Silver was became clear, he was trying to protect Yuji all along when Margey was, and still is, quote emotionally unstable.

I'm now heads over hells on Inoue Marina voicing Pheles. :love: She sounded much younger than I imagined her to be, which can be a good thing.

Poor Wilhelmina, her unrequited love on Merihim was such a trauma for her now she's hitting on girls exclusively. Had Shana stopped aging at 16/17 rather than 11/12 years old when she became a Flame Haze, Wilhemina might even hit on her as well. :D

Finally seeing "Baka-te" (a nickname some used to distinguish between Fumina and the less klutzy Hecate) on the move at last.

Reckoner

2008-01-11, 11:06

Had Shana stopped aging at 16/17 rather than 11/12 years old when she became a Flame Haze, Wilhemina might even hit on her as well. :D

Shana is 12? I thought she was like 15/16, meh.

Deathkillz

2008-01-11, 13:09

Holy...what just happened O.O
OGATA CHAN!!!...shi- that was a painful sight to see. tanaka had every right to open his eyes wide in such situations...
Margery completely went berserk...it's scary...she turned into a real monster who wouldn't listen to anyone or anything. That rampage was just mad.
Pheles on the other hand was rather quick to calm...I thought she would have wrecked the place a bit more - or not at least be as "sane" as to talk to Wilhemina like that (err...I must have missed this but what is her relation to Wilhemina?).
Awesome ep...but I get the feelings of deja vu - god help it that the next ep won't return to normal >_<

X10A_Freedom

2008-01-11, 15:03

Hmmmm...

A battle which we've been waiting forever and it's a shocker in term of blood and gore! I did find the battle a bit boring though, maybe because it was concluded so quickly. This made it all feel rather...cheesy.

This was supposed to be highly emotional but aside from Tanaka, it felt emotionally dry on the part of Pheles and Marjory. Possibly due to the lack of airtime of the battle.

Yuri? I'm not willing to jump into conclusions at the moment. Seemed like an old friendship thing so far.
Overall, lots of explosions and stuff but I feel rather empty because this was closer to mindless action rather than an epic, emotional event. 7/10.

teachopvutru

2008-01-11, 16:09

masama

2008-01-11, 17:46

the fights didn't last very long now did it? I was looking forward to Pheles kicking ass but she seems a bit weak, probably she's still recovering. And that red dress doesn't suit shana in her flame haze mode! too red!

So basically Yuji is the tomogara no moribito? :heh:

Good episode, certainly worth the wait.

Illumina

2008-01-11, 18:15

the fights didn't last very long now did it? I was looking forward to Pheles kicking ass but she seems a bit weak, probably she's still recovering.

Was watching the chinese sub but here is what i got... its said in the ep that pheles stopped eating humans, thus she is acutally quite weak at the moment. I think shana was commenting on how pheles's power was decreasing extremely fast after her entrance.

masama

2008-01-11, 18:39

Xellos-_^

2008-01-11, 20:08

Considering Yuuji has endless existance, he might want to consider dedicating the rest of his etneral life to filling the girls of the Guze with his existance.

Yuuji: Pheles, let me fill you with my existance.

cnnydz

2008-01-11, 20:11

Considering Yuuji has endless existance, he might want to consider dedicating the rest of his etneral life to filling the girls of the Guze with his existance.

i bet he will be sucked dry every night:heh::heh::heh:.

HayashiTakara

2008-01-11, 20:35

lol, hentai in the making, lol

lua thien

2008-01-11, 20:41

Looks like something is in the making, regarding Konoe saying something inaudible at the end.

serenade_beta

2008-01-11, 20:58

Eternal Lover

Pheles seeks Johann.
Margery chases after silver.
Are those really in Yuuji? To find the answer, Shana and co. has the two promise to cooperate and have a truce.
On that night, while giving the weakened Pheles some power, several Unrestricted Methods are developed by Margery.
By observing the power flowing between Pheles and the Midnight Lost Child she created, they plan to learn everything about the Midnight Lost Child.
But, the only thing they learned was a new puzzle... It was transformation of the existence of an unknown Unrestricted Method and the "Kinkan (Keeper in subs)" Pheles casted.
Progress zero.
Everyone at the place shifts their vision towards Yuuji.
At that time, Kazumi talks to Pheles. "Let's kill Shana-chan tonight."

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/14_02.jpg <--Sticks out like a sore thumb...

Xellos-_^

2008-01-11, 21:36

Eternal Lover

Pheles seeks Johann.
Margery chases after silver.
Are those really in Yuuji? To find the answer, Shana and co. has the two promise to cooperate and have a truce.
On that night, while giving the weakened Pheles some power, several Unrestricted Methods are developed by Margery.
By observing the power flowing between Pheles and the Midnight Lost Child she created, they plan to learn everything about the Midnight Lost Child.
But, the only thing they learned was a new puzzle... It was transformation of the existence of an unknown Unrestricted Method and the "Kinkan (Keeper in subs)" Pheles casted.
Progress zero.
Everyone at the place shifts their vision towards Yuuji.
At that time, Kazumi talks to Pheles. "Lets have a Orgy tonite"

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/14_02.jpg <--Sticks out like a sore thumb...

There corrected it for you :p

Tormenk

2008-01-12, 00:17

Was watching the chinese sub but here is what i got... its said in the ep that pheles stopped eating humans, thus she is acutally quite weak at the moment. I think shana was commenting on how pheles's power was decreasing extremely fast after her entrance.

I thought I heard something like that, didn't know that was the cause of Pheles's rapid drop in power.

Considering Yuuji has endless existance, he might want to consider dedicating the rest of his etneral life to filling the girls of the Guze with his existance.

Yuuji: Pheles, let me fill you with my existance.

Mana transfer ala FSN game style anyone? :p

Eternal Lover

Pheles seeks Johann.
Margery chases after silver.
Are those really in Yuuji? To find the answer, Shana and co. has the two promise to cooperate and have a truce.
On that night, while giving the weakened Pheles some power, several Unrestricted Methods are developed by Margery.
By observing the power flowing between Pheles and the Midnight Lost Child she created, they plan to learn everything about the Midnight Lost Child.
But, the only thing they learned was a new puzzle... It was transformation of the existence of an unknown Unrestricted Method and the "Kinkan (Keeper in subs)" Pheles casted.
Progress zero.
Everyone at the place shifts their vision towards Yuuji.
At that time, Kazumi talks to Pheles. "Let's kill Shana-chan tonight."

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/14_02.jpg <--Sticks out like a sore thumb...

Was that shown in the preview? :twitch: Very interesting nonetheless, Pheles walking around on the streets with the two like nobody's business. Though it seems Kazumi has make her acquaintance as well.

---

Onto the episode proper. Awesome action that doesn't let go all the way to the eyecatch. Must say I thought Pheles had one heck of an entrance in ep 12 and ep 13 has just added Pheles as another green-haired character onto my list of favorites anime girls. :D

Margery going berserk on the sight of silver flames alone was tab overkill but understandable. Coupled in with Pheles' story and the rest in the later parts was a very well-done episode. Margery blowing Oga away did devastate Tanaka but brought the two closer in the end so all's well ends well.

Next episode. Existence transfer? :D Pheles Wilheminia moments and Kazumi as well.

More Pheles is always good. And I'm already awaiting her soundtrack when the OST comes out. :3

kimchipride

2008-01-12, 02:52

Why is this rated so high? I'm looking forward to watching Shana now for the first time ever.

ipernorris

2008-01-12, 05:04

LOL Pheles was described as a Deus Ex Machina and she got owned in half episode... :heh:
I know she's weak and all, but come on... what a let down!

hayate-sama

2008-01-12, 05:47

I know she's weak and all, but come on... what a let down!

In my opinion, Pheles is not weak

She fight without any weapon, you can imagine what will going to happen if her first attack to shana is a sword not a fist :heh: and she doesn't use her flame as well. Well, i think why she is so tire at the end is because being hit by nietono no Shana on her neck :eyespin:

cnnydz

2008-01-12, 08:24

LOL Pheles was described as a Deus Ex Machina and she got owned in half episode... :heh:
I know she's weak and all, but come on... what a let down!

she is not weak. it is just that... uh how do i put this... i don't think i can reveal too much in this thread:p

Deathkillz

2008-01-12, 08:56

Somehow...watching pheles being "babied" by wilhelmina, makes me thing that she is still a kid in a grown up body :heh:

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-12, 12:50

LOL Pheles was described as a Deus Ex Machina and she got owned in half episode... :heh:
I know she's weak and all, but come on... what a let down!
Did you not read the comments above? For years she has searched for her Johann without consuming any human existences, so it's amazing that she managed to last for this long. And then she used up a lot after pinpointing the location of the Reiji Maigo and the subsequent chaos. In the end, she needed Yuji's mana transfer, er, I mean, PoE transfer in order to keep herself alive.

DeotoxSlayer

2008-01-12, 14:13

Please delete this, I have no idea where this double post came from. I swore I only clicked "Post Reply" once.

Yu can delete it yourself just click edit, and then choose delete message, it's right next to the go advanced option.

ipernorris

2008-01-12, 14:46

Did you not read the comments above? For years she has searched for her Johann without consuming any human existences, so it's amazing that she managed to last for this long. And then she used up a lot after pinpointing the location of the Reiji Maigo and the subsequent chaos. In the end, she needed Yuji's mana transfer, er, I mean, PoE transfer in order to keep herself alive.
Yes I read but I still think Pheles was shown weaker than the necessary.

teachopvutru

2008-01-12, 14:51

Yes I read but I still think Pheles was shown weaker than the necessary.

Well, after reading cnnydz post, I believe there is more to the story than that...

@Kinny Riddle: well, even if you did double click the "Post Reply" button, I don't see how those posts should be 37 minutes apart, so it's maybe some kind of glitch/bug/who-knows...

alvinkhorfire

2008-01-12, 19:07

not satisfy to some deletion and changes of script compare with novels. margery vs wilhelmina should be a intense battle.
this episode complete the story on 1/2 of novel 12. so fast... telling the truth i prefer JC Staff put more time on battle scene and make better description on story and characters.

Emm, before I saw this episode, I am thinking that this battle scene could have stretched to Episode 14. Like Piku said, it will be better if it is more intense and descriptive. But, what to do, Pheles is weak as she did not consume any human existences for a long time. Had Pheles been at full strength, Shana may not be able to defeat her. It seems that it is relatively easy for Wilhelmina to contain Marjorie with her ribbons. I would expect that Marjorie should offer more resistance, though. Upon the arrival of Pheles, Wilhelmina is too shocked until she just mumbles and not making any move at all. Nevertheless, it is the best episode yet!

As Piku mentioned about some alternation of story compared to the novels, I hope that it will not bring any bad effect to the storyline.

Guess that everybody forget about Shana's confession on the stage before the arrival of Pheles. I hope that in the future, Yuji will ask from her what she is trying to say.

A question on Yuji's fuzetsu: It appears that he did not cast it to protect the innocent. It is more like that he is too scare that Pheles is going to take Reiji Maigo from him.

It was making me thinking of one thing: How to make everyone satisfied? We know that Yuji needs Reiji Maigo to survive. And yet, Pheles wants the hougu back so that she can resurrect Johan back. Marjorie wants to take revenge against Silver, who is related to Yuji. So how?

The reason Rammy refused to reveal where Silver was became clear, he was trying to protect Yuji all along when Margey was, and still is, quote emotionally unstable.

Why did Rammie know that Silver is contained within Yuji? It is because Rammie has been on this world for a long time?

Xellos-_^

2008-01-12, 19:59

Emm, before I saw this episode, I am thinking that this battle scene could have stretched to Episode 14. Like Piku said, it will be better if it is more intense and descriptive. But, what to do, Pheles is weak as she did not consume any human existences for a long time. Had Pheles been at full strength, Shana may not be able to defeat her. It seems that it is relatively easy for Wilhelmina to contain Marjorie with her ribbons. I would expect that Marjorie should offer more resistance, though. Nevertheless, it is the best episode yet!

A question on Yuji's fuzetsu: It appears that he did not cast it to protect the innocent. It is more like that he is too scare that Pheles is going to take Reiji Maigo from him.

It was making me thinking of one thing: How to make everyone satisfied? We know that Yuji needs Reiji Maigo to survive. And yet, Pheles wants the hougu back so that she can resurrect Johan back. Marjorie wants to take revenge against Silver, who is related to Yuji. So how?

Why did Rammie know that Silver is contained within Yuji? It is because Rammie has been on this world for a long time?

Convince Pheles that he is Johan without his memory and will filled her with hs existance every night.

Tell Magery that there is another Silver out there.

Mukki

2008-01-13, 01:41

Shana is 12? I thought she was like 15/16, meh.

Well, Shana is most likely about 15 or 16, possibly older (though she is stated to be about the same age as Yuji). It's just that her physical body stopped aging when she was approximately 11 or 12.

Reckoner

2008-01-13, 02:26

Well, Shana is most likely about 15 or 16, possibly older (though she is stated to be about the same age as Yuji). It's just that her physical body stopped aging when she was approximately 11 or 12.

For my own sake, I'll black out that fact in my mind :upset:.

Whitemoon648

2008-01-13, 06:53

The episode itself was EPIC. Phele kicked a$$.

But just one question based on this episode. So did " The Spiral Organ" knew about Yuji having silver inside him when he met him in first season?

fuzzles

2008-01-13, 07:01

subs out woot waited for so long

finally got to see shana stuggling a little bit i don't care what you say it's hot when she gets beaten wish the fight was longer though :(

guess pheles is gonna be a good girl oh well more reason to hate konoe now

cnnydz

2008-01-13, 09:05

The episode itself was EPIC. Phele kicked a$$.

But just one question based on this episode. So did " The Spiral Organ" knew about Yuji having silver inside him when he met him in first season?

obviously he did, as margery recalls the conversation about silver. and in season one alastor asked lamies if silver is someone he can't reveal. lamies knew who silver is but can't say anything about where it is and who has it.

guess pheles is gonna be a good girl

hehe we will see about that, don't underestimate the power of love:p.

Whitemoon648

2008-01-13, 09:15

obviously he did, as margery recalls the conversation about silver. and in season one alastor asked lamies if silver is someone he can't reveal. lamies knew who silver is but can't say anything about where it is and who has it.

I know. But i was thinking Lamies was talking in general. I was suprised to learn that He actually figured out Silver is inside Yuji.

Lol, good thing he didnt say anything back then.

P.S. I hope Pheles and Johan story doesnt become a tragedy *_* .

Irenicus

2008-01-13, 09:43

Aww. I'm disappointed.

The episode opens dramatically; rampage, destruction, tornado, crazy purple carebear sexpot, Shana in trouble and Yuuji in trouble, all the fun that abusing "powers of existence" like some kind of mana can bring.

Good.

Battle. Pheles proves her prowess. Wilhelmina gets a new, better-looking mask (still ugly, but better than last season's) and she tries to stop the berserker bear. Ogata got smashed, Tanaka breaks down, Satou plays Yuuji's usual role (the impotent sharp guy) as the latter's a little distracted and too powerful by now anyway.

Great.

[although Yoshida-san is quite out of place there, both in-story and out. Gee, lady. Get lost. :P ]

Then Pheles weakens. Then she weakens. Then she got beat in five seconds.

Not good.

Sure, they say it's because she was fasting since probably centuries ago, that it's from the novel and all that; but that's just a plot excuse to a lackluster end of what could've been the pivotal battle of the season...finished in half an episode.

I hope this sabrac lad shows up soon, and I hope he's like, Ladd Russo, except with magic. Because the show needs more action dammit!

Wikipedia

2008-01-13, 10:50

Great episode:)!! I really liked it! Although Yuuji did panic like a girl lol.
Shana and Wilhelmina fighting together was badass:P! Poor Margery, she reacted the way I thought she would.
And poor Tanaka aswell, I wonder if Tanaka and Ogata are a couple already? They're so cute together =D!
And Yoshida...she's really forcing Yuuji to like her imo..atleast Shana isnt doing that. I guess I'll never like Yoshida..meh.

Edït: Oh and Yuuji and Shana both won grand prix? Nice, seeing as she lost to yoshida for the Juliet role.
I dont really like how everyone forgot that Shana wa going to say something to Yuji before Pheles came though..

arkxkra

2008-01-13, 11:11

this is a good episode, after so long holiday, finally can watch it. The fighting scene was not bad too. Yuuji is a "shell" :heh: ...
hope future see more awesome fighting scene :D. Next episdoe should be a relax episode...

cnnydz

2008-01-13, 11:34

Sure, they say it's because she was fasting since probably centuries ago, that it's from the novel and all that;

merihime didn't consume any POE for more than pheles did, but he still beat a guze no ou (senseirei) with one strike. so fasting shouldn't weaken a tomogara if they limit their existence and stop fighting.

X207

2008-01-13, 11:38

it seems that the audio is way off on SS eclipse ep 13 mkv. im gonna try the avi but is was so surprised to see that the audio was delayed by 1 second. ill post my thoughts on this ep later on when i hav see the ep.

FlareKnight

2008-01-13, 12:54

Well have to welcome back the series after the holiday hiatus. Things started up better than a long time with complete chaos and destruction going on here. While wasn't a surprise that Oga would be caught up in the Flames it was still a pretty big moment with all the damage she took.

Shana had some trouble early on. Even weakened Pheles did some good damage at the start. After all not everyday Shana gets bloodied up a bit. Though didn't take too long before things started turning around. All the big talk from the characters concerning Pheles and they handled it just fine.

Margery really did as expected and went totally berserk out there. A ton of damage was the result. Guess she was limited to not using her big spells since they require some thinking to compose instead of blind rage while she just ran out there and attacked anything in her way.

Yuji...I'm going to say all these school episodes really dulled him or something :heh:. Sure solid training, but not having a life or death situation in so long didn't help him when things got going. Really freaked out on this one. Gotta love Shana saving him then tossing him out of the way :).

king12354

2008-01-13, 13:11

I'm a little confused after restoring everything, it went back to the way it was before Pheles came. The Fuzetsu came a little after the destruction and everyone panicking. Why were they able to restore everything to the way it was and everyone seem to forgot about the incident saying it was a "gust of wind"?

And Spiral Organ did knew about Yuji's silver flame from last season. I rewatched that ep. a couple weeks ago and at the end when he was about to leave he paused after saying to Yuji, "You are also... nevermind."

8/10

DX HBK

2008-01-13, 13:23

They could try take power of existence from inanimate objects or living things of non-importance such as animals.

Doesn't seem as if there's ever been any mention about souls or their fates.

To think the way Margery went berserk, I'm surprised there isn't any mention or idea about someone pursuing Margery in the way she's pursuing the Silver.

S_K

2008-01-13, 13:33

Its about time! an episode worth the wait
Tanaka's eyes finallly opened! :heh:

lua thien

2008-01-13, 13:41

Also the first time that Wilhelmina calls Yuji by his proper name for once rather than referring to him as the Mystes.

X207

2008-01-13, 13:53

fight scene was pretty good, shana and wilhemina work together well. i just cant wait until yuji gets some combat abilities to faight along side of them. tanaka finally opened his eyes for the 1st time to how he felt toward oga. hopefully it wont stall after that hug.

regarding the ep14 preview
i wont be surprised if the mutation in reiji maigo would be to slowly turn yuji into the silver tomogara. he is just a shell but that doesnt mean that shells are useless when it comes wat they could potentially become.

cnnydz

2008-01-13, 14:09

They could try take power of existence from inanimate objects or living things of non-importance such as animals.

Doesn't seem as if there's ever been any mention about souls or their fates.

no they can't. in the beginning a tomogara doesn't exist in the human world, so they need POE to exist. but because they are the equivalent of humans in the guze world, they can only use POE which is from the humans of the human world. so they can only eat humans.

ps: city devouring is feared because it can converts everything, including trees' and stones' POE into POE the tomogara can use. it can give the user unimaginable powers.

Reckoner

2008-01-13, 14:44

This episode was a 9.5 for me, rounded up to a 10. I can go and nitpick little things here and there, but that wouldn't do it justice. It literally was perfect, I actually felt like the episode was hella short.

Now, it says that Sabrac threw in a spell insignia before the Reiji Maigo went off, but I highly doubt that it has anything to do with the silver. I'm assuming there are things in the Reiji Maigo that we haven't even heard of yet.

Kisuke06

2008-01-13, 14:50

The only thing I can say is: FINALLY! :cool:

Cheezy

2008-01-13, 16:07

This episode was gold.

mir

2008-01-13, 16:18

Pheles running out of gas is like a hentai waiting to happen >.>

The episode itself was well done, perhaps the best of the series so far. The plot is moving along nicely and new twists are just around the corner. I am STILL waiting on Hecate to go back to normal, put on her white mage outfit and kick everyone's ass. Until then Pheles would do I guess...

Rhyel

2008-01-13, 16:27

This episode was a Flame Haze arena, Very cool. Best episode of this season. :)

Ashlotte

2008-01-13, 17:57

Its about time! an episode worth the wait
Tanaka's eyes finallly opened! :heh:

Yea that was one of the best moments for the episode to me...For all the attention they've lobbed on yuji and his harem i'd say tanaka and ogi's little side relationship that only occasionally gets the spotlight has a helluva lot more emotional substance to it.

Frankly lately I just wish yoshida would go away and hecate would go back to her former self and let yujixshana develop more...Oh well atleast the season has finally heated up and become enjoyable. :p

Kristen

2008-01-13, 19:00

So, I got the action I wanted. But, it wasn't surprising that the action had absolutely no point to it. Fine, I understand the point of the fight, but it was like, why are they continuing to show this?
Tanaka's speech was just idiotic, Satou made no sense, Yuji was just the idiot he has been all season, and Margery was just too strange.

I waited three weeks to see a season 1 kind of storyline, and considering that everything was fixed in half an episode, I am heavily disappointed.

I won't stop watching this series since I started it, but for the first time since the start, I want the time I spent watching this series back.

3, because I felt this episode was that bad. All this waiting and build up for nothing.

DX HBK

2008-01-13, 19:48

no they can't. in the beginning a tomogara doesn't exist in the human world, so they need POE to exist. but because they are the equivalent of humans in the guze world, they can only use POE which is from the humans of the human world. so they can only eat humans.

ps: city devouring is feared because it can converts everything, including trees' and stones' POE into POE the tomogara can use. it can give the user unimaginable powers.

So they can't resort to cannibalism either?

By the way, anyone notice that Eita and Tanaka didn't have those halos around them while in the Fuzetsu?

Aquifina

2008-01-13, 19:56

I think my expectations were too high, and although the episode was okay, I felt vaguely disappointed. And although Yuji was able to deflect Pheles' first attempt at him--I actually think he did more than just cast a fuzetsu, but also somehow repelled her while doing that--he seemed more panicked than usual. Perhaps the shock of Pheles' appearance right after Shana's strange behavior in her short-circuited confession made him off balance. Margery's beserker mode and her rebuke by her underlings was actually well done, I thought, but things did seem resolved a bit too quickly.

cnnydz

2008-01-13, 20:18

I thought, but things did seem resolved a bit too quickly.

yeah, but more is yet to come

So they can't resort to cannibalism either?

they can, but tomogaras are rare and it is far easier if the food can't fight. when they fight they use their POE, it is likely they will get less than they spend

i hope the next eps will show a bit of johan/pheles and Wilhelmina's story, if not then
i wish to see pheles get pwned.

holyman282

2008-01-13, 20:55

I absolutely loved this ep and I don't see what so many people have against it. The action was awesome and brilliantly choreographed, the story has now started to get interesting and that little ending teaser with Konoe whispering something as well as pheles was just so well done.

So, I got the action I wanted. But, it wasn't surprising that the action had absolutely no point to it. Fine, I understand the point of the fight, but it was like, why are they continuing to show this?

Umm there was a point to that fight, let me explain:
-Pheles wants to reclaim Johan so she's going to erase Yuji
-Shana fights Pheles because she doesn't want Yuji to be erased.
-Margery is trying to kill Yuji because she saw his silver flame
-Wilheminna is trying to stop pheles from fighting while protecting Yuji because he's special to shana. She's also protecting Pheles because they were friends, hence she tries to stop Margery.

I don't know about you but there was a point to the fighting..

Tanaka's speech was just idiotic, Satou made no sense, Yuji was just the idiot he has been all season, and Margery was just too strange.

No it wasn't. They've built up that speech pretty well. I mean in ep 12 they've alread foreshadowed Margery's sympathy for her little henchmens and merely built upon that in this ep with Tanaka's speech to Margery. Certainly it wasn't articulated properly, but that adds to the reality of the situation. Certainly i hope you weren't expecting Tanaka to produce an award winning speech while his friends are "dying" around him.

I waited three weeks to see a season 1 kind of storyline, and considering that everything was fixed in half an episode, I am heavily disappointed.

If you are referring to the fighting scenes (which took half an ep) then yes it did finish in half an ep. What, did you expect this ep to be just one continuous battle? Then I would truly agree with you when you said that it had no point.

If you weren't talking about the fight scene, then I don't see how you can label things being fixed. I mean at the end of this ep, there were still more problems to be resolved then there were answers. So no it wasn't all fixed in half an episode.

I won't stop watching this series since I started it, but for the first time since the start, I want the time I spent watching this series back.

Fuzetsu!

KaneDragon

2008-01-13, 22:01

Great episode, couldn't resist giving it a 10 after all we've had to sit through.

Handwaving away the TORNADO and SHATTERING ALL WINDOWS IN THE SCHOOL was totally bizarre, though. For goodness' sake, you can't just say "gust of wind lol" and move on, even if they did fix all the environmental damage after the fact. Whatever.

Pheles is love.

cnnydz

2008-01-13, 22:05

Pheles is love.

she is a lover isn't she hehe

Irenicus

2008-01-13, 22:08

Aquifina

2008-01-13, 22:11

KaneDragon

2008-01-13, 22:18

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4360/margerydawwhostolemypieot0.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=margerydawwhostolemypieot0.jpg)
Pie is SERIOUS F***ING BUSINESS!

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/774/margerydawphelescradlevl8.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=margerydawphelescradlevl8.jpg)
So precious. ;_;

blewin

2008-01-13, 22:43

I'm a bit skeptical that Shana and Wilhelmina can defeat Majery and Pheles in just a few minutes. Furthermore, if Pheles has searched for Reji Maigo for so long, it's doubtful that she'd agree to halt her killing urge without even making a struggle for it (while she's bound by Wilhelmina). With these two less than perfect plot holes, I settle with a score of 8/10 for this episode.

*sure, the action is what we've all been waiting for, but to step back and think about it more, it's not as believable and great an episode as it seems*

Neki Ecko

2008-01-13, 22:45

Put it this way: before this episode, Pheles was trumped up as some kind of extremely powerful Tomogara and the possibility of her appearance greatly distressed even Wilhelmina. And then, at the end of episode 12, her entrance was much more dramatic than most of the villains shown in the series so far. Winds blowing, people screaming, all that jazz.

See where I'm going with this?

Now, let's get back to episode 13, which continues the theme. Wilhelmina's shocked (note the repetive "get a grip!" by her whateveryoucallit), Pheles made Shana fly with her deadly punch and speed. It seems that she's just as dangerous as she's trumped to be after all. Action at last, Shana got the beating she's been lacking since episode 1, great and all, right? Well, suddenly, Madame I-created-the-best-Hougo-in-the-world weakens rapidly, and just as suddenly, Shana and Wilhelmina took her down in one *single* combo move. One. Even the idiot twins from the first season took much longer to kill.

That's why I'm a little disappointed really. Not as much as ChrissieXD, since I still think it's pretty fun, but I'd be lying if I go with the rest of you and say I think it's perfect and all.

I am not disappointed about this episode, I think that alot of people is taken Pheles' power weakens out of context. I know that many people in here look at Yu Yu Hakusho(sp?) and what happen in the last Arc of it, if not I will give yall a spoiler.

In the Saga of the Three Kings, Raizen was the strongest of three kings, and Yusuke's Ansector. He use to eat humans to maintain his strength but when he fell in Love with a Human women, he decide to never eat a human again, since then he was weaken more and more then he die and pass on his legacy to Yusuke.

Pheles and Raizen are the same in the way, they were two very powerful people, and when they were full power, nobody could even hold a candle to them and when you mention their name, alot of people will be scared because of what they use to be but because they fell in love with somebody who is human and they decide not to feed on humans/POE to honor them or to look for their lost love, so you can see why that they both got weak. Even know that Pheles was a powerful in the past but since she didnt feed on any POE for a very long time, you can see why she got weak. If she was at full power, then Shana and Wilhelmia wont even get a hit on her.

gugumomu

2008-01-13, 22:55

putting aside the lack of action in this season, compared to season 1, i think that this one is heavier on the story. in season 1 we learn about Torches/Tomogara/KingofGuze/ReijiMaigo and so on, realize that this is not a simple world that is shown to us, but the confruntations there are generally random. in this season, all those characters problems from season 1 have now built up in what seams to be getting to a general clash, everyone of those characters having solid motives for their actions. it's a somewhat deeper story than season 1, even if we were slightly bored so far

Master Chibi

2008-01-13, 22:59

Finally, this show is worth watching again.

I know people have been bickering back and forth as to what type of show Shana is (where's the action, it isn't action, it's light high school romance, etc), but thus far it's been absolutely nothing but dull, contrived, boring, and close to the point of not even worth watching. You could create a simple page of cliff notes to highlight the important occurences that happened up to episode 13 and be completely fine.

Because I mean if the show was meant to be romantic in any way, shape, or form, it's already failed horribly in that department. Yuji is absolutely oblivious to everything, Konoe turning things into a love rectangular was stupid, Shana reseting what she had in the first episode alone made me want to strangle her to death, and Yoshida is and will always be boring. I mean I got wayyyyyyyyyy more out of Tanaka showing some real, honest to god emotions towards Oga chan in this episode then the entire crap slinging fest we've been giving with Yoshida, Shana, and Konoe.

And the action thus far has been acceptable, but outside of Margary's flashback (which was quite good) there's been no excitement. Thankfully though, this episode has done away with that as it was very exciting and full of energy. Action should feel epic somehow, and this episode certainly had that air about it.

I mean that's what you should get with coupley shows that root themselves in another genre other then romance. You need a contrast to offset the romance, and vice versa. The guy has to protect his girl, or the girl for the guy, or the two of them will love each another no matter what comes along in hopes of stopping them, etc etc. This garbage with Yoshida and Shana pressing their face into windows and watching Yuji, or that disgusting attempt to be given advice by Yuji's parents (go out there and reach it or some nonsense) just wasn't worth wasting so many episodes on.

Bah. It's good to see Konoe is actually something other then a complete retard, so she'll have more importance in the story (which I'm sure we all saw coming miles away anyway).

And to reiterate, I'm so happy for Tanka x Oga.

Let's hope they keep it up for another bloody 13 episodes.

^_^

Irenicus

2008-01-13, 23:17

Pheles and Raizen are the same in the way, they were two very powerful people, and when they were full power, nobody could even hold a candle to them and when you mention their name, alot of people will be scared because of what they use to be but because they fell in love with somebody who is human and they decide not to feed on humans/POE to honor them or to look for their lost love, so you can see why that they both got weak. Even know that Pheles was a powerful in the past but since she didnt feed on any POE for a very long time, you can see why she got weak. If she was at full power, then Shana and Wilhelmia wont even get a hit on her.
That's what I got from it too. Nonetheless, it was the execution of that plot point that really left me relatively disappointed (though I did give it a 7/10 rating).

For one, Wilhelmina apparently knows already that Pheles is weak from too much dieting (:p), yet she's scared out of her mind at the latter's appearance. Why? I never liked the maid much, but apparently not only is she boring, she's also not as coherent as she appears to be!?

For another, the show itself -- the characters' reactions, the background music, the choreography, the foreshadowing -- all point towards Pheles being the baddest badass Tomogara in the series yet. Now, there are many shows that give out deceptive impressions, and there are cases where they work excellently (Ghost Hound's first impressions of the Toudai psychologist character would be a good example), but this is not one of them. If they make me expect full-scale carnage, desperate heroes being pounded into dust, and all the fun that action series can bring in their full glory, then they better deliver it. Not everybody read the novels and know everything about Shakugan no Shana's plot points beforehand -- including probably a sizable part of the anime's fans.

Or, at least, make them look a little surprised. Let Yuuji be the smart guy he used to be and say something like "Why is she tiring so quickly?" Or extend the aftermath a bit. Really, they just talk for a minute and an eon's worth of questing is given up just like that. It's like Rammy saying, "bah, I don't need all that power anymore" after some random face said to him that he's better off, I don't know, doing something else. :heh:

But I digress, and I think I'm coming out as more disappointed than I actually am, so I'll stop now and hope for an equally good or better episode 14.

Master Chibi

2008-01-13, 23:28

I think you people are pushing waaaaaaaaaaay too hard on your dislike for this episode.

I mean this GIANT YELLOW TORNADO just popped up in the middle of the school festival, Yuji was about to bite the big one with two people gunning for him (am I going to die now, can I stop her, oh god oh god), Margary absolutely loses it (finally I found the silver, now I've got him, die die die), the entire school is in ruins (students become bloody ragged dolls being tossed about, Tanaka OPENS HIS FREAKING EYES once he sees what happens to Oga), Carmel has to keep Marg from killing Yuji (can she do it, how is she going to handle of this, is she still capable of kicking butt) I mean there's alot of crap going on.

I mean you said it yourself:

Not everybody read the novels and know everything about Shakugan no Shana's plot points beforehand -- including probably a sizable part of the anime's fans.

Instead of throwing a negative trait to Pheles suddenly becoming weaker, shouldn't you be offering up points of discussion as to why? Maybe she needs to be one with Reji or she'll die? Perhaps that tornado took alot out of her? There's countless things to consider.

Besides which, when was the last time you heard Yuji screech in horror like that? Wow that was fantastic. I know it sounds sadistic, but when a show doesn't cut back in scenes like that (the actual direction they went with on how Oga's body become a bloody bruised up mess being tossed aside by Marg's flame was superb) says alot.

You guys need to relax. Now we can finally dig deeper into this show. If Pheles was the end all of all things well then this would have been the last episode and everyone would have DIED, that's not exactly a smart way to go about things.

Tokkan

2008-01-13, 23:31

For one, Wilhelmina apparently knows already that Pheles is weak from too much dieting (:p), yet she's scared out of her mind at the latter's appearance. Why? I never liked the maid much, but apparently not only is she boring, she's also not as coherent as she appears to be!?

Wilhelmina doesn't want to fight Pheles. Not because she's powerful, but because she cares for her. That should be obvious from this episode.

Irenicus

2008-01-13, 23:33

I think you people are pushing waaaaaaaaaaay too hard on your dislike for this episode.
*cough* :)
But I digress, and I think I'm coming out as more disappointed than I actually am,
And "you people" are two or three people so far in this thread. Not that many IMO.

I'm not that disappointed. I'm just displeased by the discrepancy between all the awesomeness and horror (like you said, Yuuji's scream, among other things) and how easy and rushed it just ends.

As long as the plot picks up from now on instead of lapsing back into love-triangle mode then I'm fine with the show pretty much.

Master Chibi

2008-01-13, 23:34

You hush with your discrepancies.

Pheles is scary plus she has a big rack.

Yay.

Man, watching that part with Oga being burned again, god they did that part soooooooooooooo good, I'm really surprised.

cnnydz

2008-01-13, 23:40

For another, the show itself -- the characters' reactions, the background music, the choreography, the foreshadowing -- all point towards Pheles being the baddest badass Tomogara in the series yet. Now, there are many shows that give out deceptive impressions, and there are cases where they work excellently (Ghost Hound's first impressions of the Toudai psychologist character would be a good example), but this is not one of them. If they make me expect full-scale carnage, desperate heroes being pounded into dust, and all the fun that action series can bring in their full glory, then they better deliver it. Not everybody read the novels and know everything about Shakugan no Shana's plot points beforehand -- including probably a sizable part of the anime's fans.

just be patient;), they just managed to control pheles for now, and she didn't say anything about giving up.
Wilhelmina was not scared, it was obvious that she didn't want to fight pheles, so she appears to be stressed
and i think this arc is more about reiji maigo rather than pheles

gintama 25, the best episode:D (kagura's VA is shana's VA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N5iunpUNho&feature=related

teachopvutru

2008-01-13, 23:46

Wilhelmina doesn't want to fight Pheles. Not because she's powerful, but because she cares for her. That should be obvious from this episode.

I suppose now that it's pretty understandable about all the Yuri rumors floating around :p Wilhemnia x Pheles x Margery triangle relationship! :heh:

I myself am waiting for the download to finish and very excited to watch it. But damn, Shana has to start getting good again right on the last week of the semester =.=;;

Freeter

2008-01-13, 23:50

Forget Konoe, Yoshida's pouting, and all this other useless crap. I demand hot Yuji x Pheles action now.

*starts hunting for Pheles doujins*

teachopvutru

2008-01-14, 00:06

Btw, after seeing how some people get disappointed at Pheles's weakness, it managed to make me smile. The reason is that I always thought Pheles was harmless and never thought otherwise... I mean, look at the OP; it absolutely gave me no impression of her being dangerous of some kind, despite the series hinting as such. :p

Kristen

2008-01-14, 00:18

I absolutely loved this ep and I don't see what so many people have against it. The action was awesome and brilliantly choreographed, the story has now started to get interesting and that little ending teaser with Konoe whispering something as well as pheles was just so well done.

Umm there was a point to that fight, let me explain:
-Pheles wants to reclaim Johan so she's going to erase Yuji
-Shana fights Pheles because she doesn't want Yuji to be erased.
-Margery is trying to kill Yuji because she saw his silver flame
-Wilheminna is trying to stop pheles from fighting while protecting Yuji because he's special to shana. She's also protecting Pheles because they were friends, hence she tries to stop Margery.

I don't know about you but there was a point to the fighting..
See, that is all the motive to the fight. A point to the fight would be like the twins last season. Where stuff actually happens in a fight that advances the plot, other than needless carnage and begging. Like, they show the motive, how they act on it, the deciphering of the clues, etc. Since fights are mainly interesting for what comes between the blows, not the blows themselves. And this didn't have any.

No it wasn't. They've built up that speech pretty well. I mean in ep 12 they've alread foreshadowed Margery's sympathy for her little henchmens and merely built upon that in this ep with Tanaka's speech to Margery. Certainly it wasn't articulated properly, but that adds to the reality of the situation. Certainly i hope you weren't expecting Tanaka to produce an award winning speech while his friends are "dying" around him.
It's my opinion. I find it stupid how Tanaka doesn't realize that it's a Fuzetsu and everything will be fixed. I also think that the tears and stuff are fake. But, Satou's is more annoying. It reminds me of a Jyu'nichi speech in Da Capo in being forced and having no real persuation in my eyes.

If you are referring to the fighting scenes (which took half an ep) then yes it did finish in half an ep. What, did you expect this ep to be just one continuous battle? Then I would truly agree with you when you said that it had no point.

If you weren't talking about the fight scene, then I don't see how you can label things being fixed. I mean at the end of this ep, there were still more problems to be resolved then there were answers. So no it wasn't all fixed in half an episode.
If it was one continuous battle, it would be a lot worse, at least if it wasn't one that didn't have any plot other than relentless carnage. Puzzles, plot in action, etc. They were all missing. Heck, that twins battle S1 went on for 2 episodes or so, and it wasn't lacking.
And by fixed, I mean that there is no cliffhanger. Everything in the Fuzetsu is fixed, Pheles is under protection, etc. AKA, everything is back in order within half an episode. Sure, there are issues still needing resolving, but there's no intensity anymore. It's just everyday walk around and find answers.

I repeat that these are my opinions. I think that this entire episode was just stupid.

holyman282

2008-01-14, 00:24

I think it's gotten to a point where people are just trying to nitpick the bad things of this ep rather then focusing on the good. Also most of the negative comments people have made about this ep could be easily explained (and was in this ep or previous eps).

Take for example some of the reasons people were disappointed with this ep:

Problem 1: The combat scene was pointless.

Answer: Actually it wasn't and see my previous post to see why.

Problem 2: Things were fixed in half an ep.

Answer: No they weren't. The ending left us on more of a cliffhanger so i don't see how they fixed things in half an ep unless you are referring to the fight scene, which i think half an ep was enough.

Problem 3: Pheles was finished too quickly/she was too weak.

Answer: Yes because she hasn't been feeding off humans and relying solely on the reijo maigo. Not to mention she probably hasn't eaten even from the reijo maigo in a while, as well as she being weakened by the fight that forced her to seal Johan. If anything I thought she put up quite a fight considering the circumstances.

Problem 4: How did Shana and Wilhemma defeat pheles and Margery so quickly?

Answer: The answer was somwhat answered in the previous problem, cause as you know Pheles is weakened and Margery has lost her cool and hence can't assess a fight properly (never lose your cool). Not to mention that Shana isn't weak, i mean she's the flame haired red eyes, a famous flame haze known to be very powerful. I think people are underestimating Shana.

Problem 5: Why did Pheles and Margery abandon hunting down Yuji so fast?

Answer: Firstly Margery Daw has significantly softened since the incident with Yuri. I mean it's become obvious that she cares for satou and Tanaka. In other words, I doubt her obsession with Silver is as strong as it was a long time ago.

As for Pheles, well first of all, she's been defeated, not to mention she's very weak. Wilheminna is her friend so she'll listen to her. She said herself that the reijo maigo is broken as it's emitting silver flames, meaning she won't extract Johan untill that problem is resolved. It's not like Johan is going to go somewhere if she doesn't get him now... There are alot of reasons...

Problem 6: Yuji is still an idiot.

Answer: I personally don't think he's an idiot, but to the people who did, well you've been saying that several ep back. If you truly believe it so then I'll wager to conclude that you've basically accepted his idiocy and will overlook it. Otherwise you'll be constantly disappointed, in fact i'll wonder why you're still watching it.

These are just a few complaints, if you have anything else say it and i'm sure I can come up with a simple explanation.

Irenicus

2008-01-14, 00:36

You hush with your discrepancies.
Hai. :p

just be patient
Since it seems to me that you know what's going to happen next (i.e. read the novels), I'll trust you on this one.

I presume there's some kind of rule that bans this type of spoiler (future events from source material)? Otherwise I'm really curious.

Although, just a little last words...

[long post - nibbed to save space]
I get all the explanations, my friend. The show didn't exactly try to hide those facts though IMO it did a terrible job of relaying them in a sufficiently convincing fashion. What I had a problem with weren't the dry facts of the events, but the impressions of what was going to happen, what actually happened, and the pacing of what happened. Though I look forward to what will happen as usual.

Moreover I never really had a problem with slice-of-life Shana Season 2 until it just dragged on and on and got boring. Actually I wouldn't have had a problem at all if the situations back then weren't so retarded and boring in and of themselves.

'is all.

Sterling01

2008-01-14, 00:42

Most of the Problems I have with the anime are just due to impatience
This Episode was much better then the ones before it.
Yuji's Screaming fit/losing control was one of the highlights
Also Pheles and Yuji need to have a PoE exchage scene (FSN Style)

@Irenicus: cnnydz knows all... fear him

cnnydz

2008-01-14, 00:57

i will add a few things to holy man's post

Problem 1: The combat scene was pointless.

Answer: Actually it wasn't and see my previous post to see why.

i think crissie was misusing the word pointless, i think what crissie meant was this fight is not necessary to drive the plot.
but this fight has to happen because pheles needs to appear, and she will try to kill yuji no matter what.

Problem 2: Things were fixed in half an ep.

Answer: No they weren't. The ending left us on more of a cliffhanger so i don't see how they fixed things in half an ep unless you are referring to the fight scene, which i think half an ep was enough.

this also answers the previous Q, that is y this fight is only half eps long, as it was not meant to be the end of the arc
it is to introduce pheles and get her and margery into a state where everyone can discuss the reiji maigo peacefully.

Problem 3: Pheles was finished too quickly/she was too weak.

Answer: Yes because she hasn't been feeding off humans and relying solely on the reijo maigo. Not to mention she probably hasn't eaten even from the reijo maigo in a while, as well as she being weakened by the fight that forced her to seal Johan. If anything I thought she put up quite a fight considering the circumstances.

as i said before this arc is far from over so plz be patient, don't underestimate pheles' power
Problem 4: How did Shana and Wilhemma defeat pheles and Margery so quickly?

Answer: The answer was somwhat answered in the previous problem, cause as you know Pheles is weakened and Margery has lost her cool and hence can't assess a fight properly (never lose your cool). Not to mention that Shana isn't weak, i mean she's the flame haired red eyes, a famous flame haze known to be very powerful. I think people are underestimating Shana.

yes, enpatsu shakugan was known as the strongest Flame Haze.

Problem 5: Why did Pheles and Margery abandon hunting down Yuji so fast?

Answer: Firstly Margery Daw has significantly softened since the incident with Yuri. I mean it's become obvious that she cares for satou and Tanaka. In other words, I doubt her obsession with Silver is as strong as it was a long time ago.

As for Pheles, well first of all, she's been defeated, not to mention she's very weak. Wilheminna is her friend so she'll listen to her. She said herself that the reijo maigo is broken as it's emitting silver flames, meaning she won't extract Johan untill that problem is resolved. It's not like Johan is going to go somewhere if she doesn't get him now... There are alot of reasons...

it is unlikely yuji was silver himself, yuji is just related to silver, so killing yuji would actually destroy the only hope of finding silver. i think margery realised that and decided to not kill him

as for pheles, she never said she'd give up that woman is planning something i tell u

Problem 6: Yuji is still an idiot.

Answer: I personally don't think he's an idiot, but to the people who did, well you've been saying that several ep back. If you truly believe it so then I'll wager to conclude that you've basically accepted his idiocy and will overlook it. Otherwise you'll be constantly disappointed, in fact i'll wonder why you're still watching it.

yuji was just frightened, he will shine later on

so my point is plz finish this arc before make big assumptions

cnnydz

2008-01-14, 01:01

I get all the explanations, my friend. The show didn't exactly try to hide those facts though IMO it did a terrible job of relaying them in a sufficiently convincing fashion. What I had a problem with weren't the dry facts of the events, but the impressions of what was going to happen, what actually happened, and the pacing of what happened. Though I look forward to what will happen as usual.

Moreover I never really had a problem with slice-of-life Shana Season 2 until it just dragged on and on and got boring. Actually I wouldn't have had a problem at all if the situations back then weren't so retarded and boring in and of themselves.

'is all.
haha the producers don't have enough material, so fillers has to happen. that is why it felt boring and dragged.

i think a 13 eps season starting with Seishuu Sai would fare much better

Whitemoon648

2008-01-14, 01:25

haha the producers don't have enough material, so fillers has to happen. that is why it felt boring and dragged.

i think a 13 eps season starting with Seishuu Sai would fare much better

You seem to have read the novels :), so i have a question for you.

Question:

Shana season 1 was 24 episode. Assuming Shana season 2 will be 20+ episode, do you think they will finish all of Shana novels and animate them all?

Or there are way many more novels that need to be animated .

Thanks alot in advance :).

Sterling01

2008-01-14, 01:31

Shana 2 is already half done with Novel 12
Shana 1 covered the first 9 novels with changes If I'm not mistaken

So with what happens at the end of Novel 14 the second season might end there
or they'll might skip 15 and head straght into 16

I've only read 10-14 and 16

So this is just my speculation

cnnydz

2008-01-14, 01:32

You seem to have read the novels :), so i have a question for you.

Question:

Shana season 1 was 24 episode. Assuming Shana season 2 will be 20+ episode, do you think they will finish all of Shana novels and animate them all?

Or there are way many more novels that need to be animated .

Thanks alot in advance :).

i think they will probably go as far as vol 14 in terms of main storyline, which lwould eft one vol from main story line not animated. but it will still be 3-4 eps short of 24 eps, so i guess they will use one of the side stories or make a original ending to fill the gaps. of course they can also dragged the whole thing on or make fillers.

cnnydz

2008-01-14, 01:35

Sterling01

2008-01-14, 01:41

But.... :sad:

Vol 16 is where Yuji REALLY Shines :heh::heh:

KholdStare

2008-01-14, 03:05

I gave it a 9/10 but it seems like a lot of people loved this episode. I was quite disappointed at how weak Pheles is, but the thing I really like was there's a reason. Shana didn't just mysteriously overpower Pheles, but there was actually a good reason to why, and that's the thing that I think made the fights good. About everything else it made me want to look forward to the next episode, and that deserves a solid 9 in my book.

Lol what's this about yuri? ;)

Keroko

2008-01-14, 04:51

See, that is all the motive to the fight. A point to the fight would be like the twins last season. Where stuff actually happens in a fight that advances the plot, other than needless carnage and begging. Like, they show the motive, how they act on it, the deciphering of the clues, etc. Since fights are mainly interesting for what comes between the blows, not the blows themselves. And this didn't have any..

Many things that happened during this fight that advanced the plot, I'm not sure how you can say it didn't. Pheles apearance wasn't to fight, it was simply to get in, get Johan, get out. The fact that Shana didn't like that and interfered, thereby starting the fight, was something Pheles hadn't counted on. However, Pheles apearance alone served to advance plot, the fight showed that she was very weak at the time, which again advanced plot. Then there is Margery, after finding out that Gin was there -in her eyes at least- did you really expect her to stay still? That would be drawing Margery out of character. Her discovering a possible link to Gin once more advanced plot. That aside, her berserking and the entire Oga-chan deal might serve to advance more development, or even finally convince Margery to actually train her two henchmen.

It's my opinion. I find it stupid how Tanaka doesn't realize that it's a Fuzetsu and everything will be fixed. I also think that the tears and stuff are fake. But, Satou's is more annoying. It reminds me of a Jyu'nichi speech in Da Capo in being forced and having no real persuation in my eyes.

Question: Has Tanaka ever seen anyone get torn to shreds in a fuzetsu before? Much less someone he loves? That kinda has an impact on people, you know.

If it was one continuous battle, it would be a lot worse, at least if it wasn't one that didn't have any plot other than relentless carnage. Puzzles, plot in action, etc. They were all missing. Heck, that twins battle S1 went on for 2 episodes or so, and it wasn't lacking.

The twins battle was nowhere near as plot developping as this one, the only thing really developping was Senpen discovering Reiji Maigo and Shana doing a bit of soul searching. In this episode we got Pheles, Pheles background, Pheles current status, Reiji Maigo background, Reiji Maigo info, new enemy (Sabrac) discovery that Reiji Maigo is bugged, Margery discovering Yuji can use silver flames... Really, this episode was filled to the brink with plot.

And by fixed, I mean that there is no cliffhanger. Everything in the Fuzetsu is fixed, Pheles is under protection, etc. AKA, everything is back in order within half an episode. Sure, there are issues still needing resolving, but there's no intensity anymore. It's just everyday walk around and find answers.

Leaving people hanging with even more questions then the last episode is also a way to give a cliffhanger. Less urgency, yes, but it does not limit the annoyance of having to wait another week for the next episode.

Sorrow-K

2008-01-14, 05:35

Holy crap, an episode of Shakugan no Shana that was actually dramatic. I can't remember the last time SnS was as good as this. No, seriously... I can't. Not that I expect it to last. This series has been nothing but a disappointment so far, and this is coming from somewhat that had minimal expectations to begin with.

plzd0ntkeelme

2008-01-14, 06:14

Let me first say that this ep is awesome. The action sequences are nicely animated and definitely get some blood pumping.

I'm definitely disappointed with how both Pheles and Margery unable to rip Wilhelmina's cloth apart. Don't y'all remember how Yuuji exploded and burn them to dust in one of the prev eps? He hasn't even produced the silver flame at the moment, but he was able to cook them into nothing. Yet both Pheles and Margery just fell like that? Well, Margery's fire burn the cloths to pieces so the cloths shouldn't be that tough.

Another forced event is Margery going berserk. If anything, she should be attacking Pheles by assuming that the silver flame came from her as opposed to, Yuuji? How long have Margery and Yuuji known each other and yet she was asking him, "so you're not tomogara? You're not siver?" Gotta say, in this anime alcohol seems to be a hell of a drug.

Grimkill7

2008-01-14, 06:15

plzd0ntkeelme

2008-01-14, 06:26

Kristen

2008-01-14, 08:15

Many things that happened during this fight that advanced the plot, I'm not sure how you can say it didn't. Pheles apearance wasn't to fight, it was simply to get in, get Johan, get out. The fact that Shana didn't like that and interfered, thereby starting the fight, was something Pheles hadn't counted on. However, Pheles apearance alone served to advance plot, the fight showed that she was very weak at the time, which again advanced plot. Then there is Margery, after finding out that Gin was there -in her eyes at least- did you really expect her to stay still? That would be drawing Margery out of character. Her discovering a possible link to Gin once more advanced plot. That aside, her berserking and the entire Oga-chan deal might serve to advance more development, or even finally convince Margery to actually train her two henchmen.
I think you're looking at my statements the wrong way. Yes, I know that things happened to advance the plot of the story as a whole. It's that the fight itself had no plot at all. It's like, hit hit hit, flame flame flame, ribbon, ribbon, ribbon. The fight was pointless, as nothing else was really going on other than just sword clashes.
I mean, should I try to write down the events of the battle, I'd get maybe a page of writing with the dialouge. It's useless.

Question: Has Tanaka ever seen anyone get torn to shreds in a fuzetsu before? Much less someone he loves? That kinda has an impact on people, you know.
Just look at season one. When the hunter came to school and that girl was impaled, Yuji didn't just cry and make a stupid speech to Shana. He knew that what went on in the Fuzetsu stayed in it. His problem was using her to make repairs. Tanaka had experianced life in a Fuzetsu, and he knows the world. It was stupid to me.

The twins battle was nowhere near as plot developping as this one, the only thing really developping was Senpen discovering Reiji Maigo and Shana doing a bit of soul searching. In this episode we got Pheles, Pheles background, Pheles current status, Reiji Maigo background, Reiji Maigo info, new enemy (Sabrac) discovery that Reiji Maigo is bugged, Margery discovering Yuji can use silver flames... Really, this episode was filled to the brink with plot.
Plot developing again does not mean that it contained plot. It means that it leads to possibilities of new plot. What did I see in this episode? Boring useless fighting. In the twin battle, we had Shana finding them and attacking them, we had her destruction of the flower, we had her capture, we had Yuji and Margery's destruction of the applicable torches, Shana's escape, the stealing of Shana's sword, the destruction of the twins, Yuji's finding the music box, Margery's fight with Metamorphosis, etc. All contained within the arc.
Here, we had clash clash, ribbon ribbon. There was no plot inside the fight at all.

Leaving people hanging with even more questions then the last episode is also a way to give a cliffhanger. Less urgency, yes, but it does not limit the annoyance of having to wait another week for the next episode.
To be quite honest, I don't have more questions at all. I just know that something is wrong with the Reiju Maigo. All the other questions you brought up to me are answers/things that already were questions. This episode to me brought a close of a plotline, and now I feel like we're starting a new one.

Tormenk

2008-01-14, 08:15

Looks like Shana still needs conditioning if she thinks Yuuji is going to be destroyed instead of being killed. :heh: And Magery's random nonsense of spells has just reach the peak with "who stole my pie". :D

Gohan78

2008-01-14, 08:52

I was actually pleasantly surprised to discover that Pheles is not the main villain. All the hints pointed to her, but she is only desperate to reunite with her lover. They manged to surprise me and this is a plus in my book.
Perfect 10 for: awesome fight, plot advancement, a tender moment between Tanaka and Oga-chan, and Wilhelmina cradling Pheles. Best episode so far.

Sinestra

2008-01-14, 08:56

Solid kick ass episode with fire, swords, death, destruction, and a whole lot of shit going boom. That was the most destruction iv seen since the end of the first season. Pheles is even more intruing now and now im thinking she might not turn out to be as evil as i previously thought. With her not consuming humans she is fairly weak. But she sure as hell knows how to make an entrance. Her bgm once again was beautifully done. That music was perfect for the scene.

Now this mystery about Reiji Maigo and a mutation has peeked my interest even more i never considered that a mutation could have occured. When pheles said it was not acting properly that sent bells a ringing in my head. Honestly how much do we really know about the reiji maigo and exactly its function? We technically only have 3 party info on it. Pheles the creator should be able to fill us in on concret info.

Tanaka and Oga i loved that scene it has been building and finally we see the result. Hopfully tanaka wont waste anymore time

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-14, 09:00

This episode makes me wish Yoshida would just get torch'd. I never realized how much I truly hated her until now. Seriously? Did we really go through all that over-the-top, badass action just so we could here you say that Yuji is "far away from me"? Just hearing her say that made me angrier than anything else I've seen in this show. I think there are a few, slightly more urgent matters than your broken heart Kazumi. Her line was so out of place with everything else that was going on, that it kinda tarnished all the exciting events that had happened beforehand. Her one-sided love for Yuji has become so muddled, that it's actually starting to bring down the rest of the plot.
Hey chill. You're taking this too seriously. If Yoshida really were the selfish person you were talking about, she would have said this out loud rather than just keep this thought to herself.

Most of us as human beings have at one time or another harbour some form of selfish thoughts in the most inappropriate of situations, though most of us are sensible enough to keep these thoughts absolutely private. So her "temporary disregard" for other people is quite normal to me. Who knows, it may turn her to the "Dark Side" and become an interesting plot point.

holyman got it right on the mark in his post in analyzing the fights.

It first started out with Margery in a blind rage and Pheles being unrelentless while eager in trying to extract her Johann from the Reiji Maigo. On the other hand, both Shana and Wilhelmina, though they were initially pegged back, managed to keep their heads cool.

The out-of-control Margery was simply exhausting her energy, Pheles was the same as well. Not to mention Shana has defeated a berserk Margery before.

I don't think the Margery vs Wilhelmina part is in the novel at all, so I'm just extrapolating from holyman's post.

cnnydz

2008-01-14, 09:12

Just look at season one. When the hunter came to school and that girl was impaled, Yuji didn't just cry and make a stupid speech to Shana. He knew that what went on in the Fuzetsu stayed in it. His problem was using her to make repairs. Tanaka had experianced life in a Fuzetsu, and he knows the world. It was stupid to me.

that's why yuji can become strong, but tanaka can't, he is just weak.

Plot developing again does not mean that it contained plot. It means that it leads to possibilities of new plot. What did I see in this episode? Boring useless fighting. In the twin battle, we had Shana finding them and attacking them, we had her destruction of the flower, we had her capture, we had Yuji and Margery's destruction of the applicable torches, Shana's escape, the stealing of Shana's sword, the destruction of the twins, Yuji's finding the music box, Margery's fight with Metamorphosis, etc. All contained within the arc.
Here, we had clash clash, ribbon ribbon. There was no plot inside the fight at all.

in the other fights the tomogaras all had a plan, that is why the FHs need to investigate and do some hard thinking. but in this case pheles doesn't have one she just came to release johan, and pheles really suprised the FHs, i mean she teleported (with other tomogaras the FHs can sense their POE coming a long way off but they can't in this case) . so it is like let's finish this fight first, then think about other things, and most importantly this is just beginning of the arc, pheles has lost the battle but not the war. i mean shana got beaten and captured by the twins didn't she, did u think it was the end of the fight?

if u don't like this kind of mindless fighting then u should stop watching, or at least lower ur expectations, because all fights from now on will be "pointless" in your opinion. all of them are sudden attacks that leave the FHs with no time to think and confused. (more like hit and run). they will drive the plot as a whole though

To be quite honest, I don't have more questions at all. I just know that something is wrong with the Reiju Maigo. All the other questions you brought up to me are answers/things that already were questions. This episode to me brought a close of a plotline, and now I feel like we're starting a new one.

dont u wanna know what's sabrac relation to silver, and how was reiji maigo lost. and who put the keeper on the reiji maigo(i no this is not a new one but they all assumed it was phleles, and we are told now even she didn't know about it) is it sabrac, or someone else.

cnnydz

2008-01-14, 09:14

I don't think the Margery vs Wilhelmina part is in the novel at all, so I'm just extrapolating from holyman's post.

it is, but it took more to hold her down than in the anime

although i really liked the pheles/johan story. i think pheles should just die, she is such a cruel and mindless b****

DX HBK

2008-01-14, 09:33

I think the earlier post about Pheles having the mind of a child holds some validity. How the heck did she escape Sabrac once the Reiji Maigo translocated?

Shiroth

2008-01-14, 09:51

Finally, that was the kind of Ko Otani music i've wanted to hear from the second season. Plenty of new tracks played --- just in time for the second season's soundtrack release.

So yeah that was a great episode, about time i guess. Pheles' vs Shana was fun to watch, the type of battle scenes i like from this series. CRAZY Margery was just crazy, and expected. I very much liked that few minute flash back scene. I'd love more of those.

Next episode looks to carry on things with Pheles, though after that i hope we don't return to high school drama, especially after this episode.

Keroko

2008-01-14, 10:04

I think you're looking at my statements the wrong way. Yes, I know that things happened to advance the plot of the story as a whole. It's that the fight itself had no plot at all. It's like, hit hit hit, flame flame flame, ribbon, ribbon, ribbon. The fight was pointless, as nothing else was really going on other than just sword clashes.

And discovering Pheles wants to get Johan back, and learning about her unrestricted spell, Inbelna, and the Oga incident, and discovering that Pheles is weakening. All that happened during the fight.

I mean, should I try to write down the events of the battle, I'd get maybe a page of writing with the dialouge. It's useless.

Yeah, you won't get lot of written dialogue during this fight, because this fight lasted an astonashing six minutes. Hard to cram more then a page of written dialogue in a fight of six minutes without making it go Naruto, and having both sides staring at eachother while talking for the entire fight.

Plot developing again does not mean that it contained plot. It means that it leads to possibilities of new plot.

To develop plot you need plot. This episode had a lot of plot, and used it to develop what we already knew.

What did I see in this episode? Boring useless fighting. In the twin battle, we had Shana finding them and attacking them, we had her destruction of the flower, we had her capture, we had Yuji and Margery's destruction of the applicable torches, Shana's escape, the stealing of Shana's sword, the destruction of the twins, Yuji's finding the music box, Margery's fight with Metamorphosis, etc. All contained within the arc.
Here, we had clash clash, ribbon ribbon. There was no plot inside the fight at all.

Ironic that you are using the twin battle as an example, as the amount of plot we gained from it paled in comparison to the shorter fight here. I mean, if I use your counting system of plot (the stealing of the sword is plot? What about Oga getting trashed? That can actually have long-terms results for Margery and Co.) I can add some more plot then what I already wrote above. Once again, this fight lasted six minutes, and it still delivered more plot then one that spanned one and a half episode.

Just look at season one. When the hunter came to school and that girl was impaled, Yuji didn't just cry and make a stupid speech to Shana. He knew that what went on in the Fuzetsu stayed in it. His problem was using her to make repairs. Tanaka had experianced life in a Fuzetsu, and he knows the world. It was stupid to me.

That was Yuji, this is Tanaka. I think we can safely asume that these two people are vastly different from one another.

And you are seriously underestimating the psycological impact of seeing someone by all acounts getting killed in front of your eyes. Yes, Tanaka experienced life in a Fuzetsu before, but all he did was sit at the Haridan most of the time, and the only times he didn't he was never actually around the site of battle. Knowing people get hurt and seeing people get hurt are two vastly different things. Add to that that Oga's 'death' was not exactly the most clean one and I would have complained if Tanaka had acted casual on the matter.

Sinestra

2008-01-14, 11:28

And discovering Pheles wants to get Johan back, and learning about her unrestricted spell, Inbelna, and the Oga incident, and discovering that Pheles is weakening. All that happened during the fight.

Yeah, you won't get lot of written dialogue during this fight, because this fight lasted an astonashing six minutes. Hard to cram more then a page of written dialogue in a fight of six minutes without making it go Naruto, and having both sides staring at eachother while talking for the entire fight.

To develop plot you need plot. This episode had a lot of plot, and used it to develop what we already knew.

Ironic that you are using the twin battle as an example, as the amount of plot we gained from it paled in comparison to the shorter fight here. I mean, if I use your counting system of plot (the stealing of the sword is plot? What about Oga getting trashed? That can actually have long-terms results for Margery and Co.) I can add some more plot then what I already wrote above. Once again, this fight lasted six minutes, and it still delivered more plot then one that spanned one and a half episode.

That was Yuji, this is Tanaka. I think we can safely asume that these two people are vastly different from one another.

And you are seriously underestimating the psycological impact of seeing someone by all acounts getting killed in front of your eyes. Yes, Tanaka experienced life in a Fuzetsu before, but all he did was sit at the Haridan most of the time, and the only times he didn't he was never actually around the site of battle. Knowing people get hurt and seeing people get hurt are two vastly different things. Add to that that Oga's 'death' was not exactly the most clean one and I would have complained if Tanaka had acted casual on the matter.

Very points indeed a couple of people they stated they did not see the plot or the point of the majority of the episode. I find it funny because it was so direct in terms of how everything went down. I think we are use to fairly complicated scanerios so something so straightforward is rare. Though it may seem insignificant Oga getting killed had sever pshycological drawbacks, seeing someone you know getting killed right in front of you someone know is horrfying and imo Tanaka reacted properly. The episode opened up a shit load of more questions then what were answered. To me things just got even more complicated. Right now everyone is in the dark about with conjecture to go on.

The line between friend and foe just got blurred again.

Kristen

2008-01-14, 11:35

And discovering Pheles wants to get Johan back, and learning about her unrestricted spell, Inbelna, and the Oga incident, and discovering that Pheles is weakening. All that happened during the fight.
I knew Pheles wanted Johan back from the start. I don't see any point to learning about a new unrestricted spell. The Oga incident and what followed was stupid to me. And has there ever been a fight where they don't say "They're weakening!"
It was just a stupid fight in my opinion without plot. Maybe you feel differently, and I respect that. But to me, it just wasn't interesting.

Yeah, you won't get lot of written dialogue during this fight, because this fight lasted an astonashing six minutes. Hard to cram more then a page of written dialogue in a fight of six minutes without making it go Naruto, and having both sides staring at eachother while talking for the entire fight.
I don't mean dialogue, necessarily. I mean that nothing really happened in the fight.

To develop plot you need plot. This episode had a lot of plot, and used it to develop what we already knew.
In my opinion, no. It seemingly had no plot to me, and most things revealed were things I already knew.

Ironic that you are using the twin battle as an example, as the amount of plot we gained from it paled in comparison to the shorter fight here. I mean, if I use your counting system of plot (the stealing of the sword is plot? What about Oga getting trashed? That can actually have long-terms results for Margery and Co.) I can add some more plot then what I already wrote above. Once again, this fight lasted six minutes, and it still delivered more plot then one that spanned one and a half episode.
Plot gained. Again, I'm not talking about what plot possibilities emerged from this, I'm talking about the plot in the fight itself, which was zero in my opinion.

That was Yuji, this is Tanaka. I think we can safely asume that these two people are vastly different from one another.

And you are seriously underestimating the psycological impact of seeing someone by all acounts getting killed in front of your eyes. Yes, Tanaka experienced life in a Fuzetsu before, but all he did was sit at the Haridan most of the time, and the only times he didn't he was never actually around the site of battle. Knowing people get hurt and seeing people get hurt are two vastly different things. Add to that that Oga's 'death' was not exactly the most clean one and I would have complained if Tanaka had acted casual on the matter.
Regardless of what the impact was on him at the time, the fact that he whined to Margery later, fully understanding that everything would be fixed (If he didn't know that, he'd be more of an idiot than Yuji...) was just rediculous. Hence why I call it a rediculous speech.

Keep in mind, these are all my opinions. I'm not going to change my rating of this episode, because a 3 is just how much I enjoyed it. It was boring and useless in my mind.

cnnydz: If 1 is true, I'm very upset. But, I'm not going to stop watching it, now that I'm this far in. I doubt I'll be watch a S3 if it ever comes out.

Kiyoru

2008-01-14, 12:18

cnnydz

2008-01-14, 12:43

I don't mean dialogue, necessarily. I mean that nothing really happened in the fight.

In my opinion, no. It seemingly had no plot to me, and most things revealed were things I already knew.

Plot gained. Again, I'm not talking about what plot possibilities emerged from this, I'm talking about the plot in the fight itself, which was zero in my opinion.

still don't know what u mean by plot. can u show me by analyzing the final fight with hunter plz

Regardless of what the impact was on him at the time, the fact that he whined to Margery later, fully understanding that everything would be fixed (If he didn't know that, he'd be more of an idiot than Yuji...) was just rediculous. Hence why I call it a rediculous speech.

it is not ridiculous, tanaka just doesn't have what it takes to be strong. i mean there are people who fear traveling by air (and whine:p i know someone who does) even though they know it is safer than cars.

minhtam1638

2008-01-14, 15:03

This episode was so good! Finally, some well deserved action, it's been way too long. The first little quarter was intense, where Yuji used Fuzetsu, screaming.

Shana: "Please, quiet down!" *kicks Margery* :P too good.

You know, I'm surprised that J.C. Staff didn't use this, but that was a definite good time for Urusai x3.

After watching this episode... I don't know, it just seems like you need to marathon 13 into 14 into 15 to really appreciate this episode. The action was nice, but all in all, it didn't give the same feel as it did in S1.

Keroko

2008-01-14, 16:54

I knew Pheles wanted Johan back from the start. I don't see any point to learning about a new unrestricted spell. The Oga incident and what followed was stupid to me. And has there ever been a fight where they don't say "They're weakening!"
It was just a stupid fight in my opinion without plot. Maybe you feel differently, and I respect that. But to me, it just wasn't interesting.

Ah, let me guess, novel reader? Well, that would explain a thing or two. But whether you knew, didn't care or tought the things that happened were stupid doesn't change the fact that it was plot. Just because you knew that Pheles could bring back Johan doesn't mean that suddenly its not plot anymore. That would be like saying water isn't water anymore just because you know its water.

I don't mean dialogue, necessarily. I mean that nothing really happened in the fight.

You did mean dialogue, but that aside, tons of stuff happened during the fight, which I already described.

Plot gained. Again, I'm not talking about what plot possibilities emerged from this, I'm talking about the plot in the fight itself, which was zero in my opinion.

Then what was the plot in the twins fight?

Regardless of what the impact was on him at the time, the fact that he whined to Margery later, fully understanding that everything would be fixed (If he didn't know that, he'd be more of an idiot than Yuji...) was just rediculous. Hence why I call it a rediculous speech.

Okay, lets recount. Someone you respected to the point of idolization just killed the one you loved. Should that not have an impact on a person? Should he simply shrug and go 'meh, I'll forgive her. Its all going to be fixed anyway'?

That would be a ridiculously unbelievable scene.

Keep in mind, these are all my opinions. I'm not going to change my rating of this episode, because a 3 is just how much I enjoyed it. It was boring and useless in my mind.

I'm not expecting you to change your rating, I'm simply discussing whether episode 13 had a plot-filled fight and whether Tanaka's reaction was justified.

And having fun doing so. Important detail.

Kristen

2008-01-14, 19:49

Ah, let me guess, novel reader? Well, that would explain a thing or two. But whether you knew, didn't care or tought the things that happened were stupid doesn't change the fact that it was plot. Just because you knew that Pheles could bring back Johan doesn't mean that suddenly its not plot anymore. That would be like saying water isn't water anymore just because you know its water.
Actually, the anime is the first I've ever seen of Shana. :p
That last passage reminded me of Haruhi. Heh.
But in all seriousness, I guess everything is plot, and I'm just arguing that this is very hollow and boring plot. To me, it was just reiterating everything we already knew, save that something is wrong with the Reiju Maigu.

You did mean dialogue, but that aside, tons of stuff happened during the fight, which I already described.

Then what was the plot in the twins fight?
*Fuzetsu*
Shana runs to find the twins
Blutsaguer, and the explanation of what it is
Shana realizes the flower is causing the Fuzetsu (thingy...)
Shana tries to destroy the flower
Shana is caught
Yuji and Margery destroy the torches
Shana's sword is taken
Shana breaks free of the trap
Shana destroys one of the twins
Yuji climbs the bridge
Margery meets metamorphosis, they fight
Metamorphosis discovers the Reiju Maigu in Yuji
Shana destroys the other twin
Metamorphosis runs away
*End Fuzetsu*
Granted, I misplaced some things and got some little details wrong, since I haven't seen that in a while. But, here is the plot of this last fight:

Pheles shows up
*Fuzetsu*
Margery starts to go beserk
Pheles tries to steal Reiju Maigo, Shana thwarts her
Margery fights Wilhelmenia
Margery kills Tanaka's girlfriend
Margery wraps everyone up
Anything after that is plot in the story, as the fight was over.

Okay, lets recount. Someone you respected to the point of idolization just killed the one you loved. Should that not have an impact on a person? Should he simply shrug and go 'meh, I'll forgive her. Its all going to be fixed anyway'?

That would be a ridiculously unbelievable scene.
I would be shocked, as would anyone, to see that. However, after realizing that it's just an imaginary world and everything will be restored to the way it used to be, I wouldn't continue to go beserk. Rather, I'd keep a calm demeanor and wait it out.

I'm not expecting you to change your rating, I'm simply discussing whether episode 13 had a plot-filled fight and whether Tanaka's reaction was justified.

And having fun doing so. Important detail.

Note that this is going to sound sarcastic, but I honestly do not mean it to be.
I'm sorry. I kind of forgot that ASuki isn't like the other boards I've been to, where people tended to argue with me just because they wanted to argue with me so that they could trip me up on one little thing and use it to discredit my entire argument. I'm just not really used to having an argument to somebody who actually believes their side of the story, rather than trying to play the devil's advocate in order to make me feel terrible. For my accusations, I'm sorry.

teachopvutru

2008-01-14, 19:56

Well... not to sound like oversimplify what you are trying to tell but from what I gather, you basically are saying that the preview from last episode for this one reveals too much; and despite the goodness it delivers (well, to many, although not to you, apparently), the fight lacks suspense and momentum. Or maybe, what you are referring is that the fight lacks "something" to make you think "what happen next?"

I still have yet to watch this episode... damn Internet connection always disconnect <.<

Sterling01

2008-01-14, 20:23

Pheles shows up
*Fuzetsu*
Margery starts to go beserk
Pheles tries to steal Reiju Maigo, Shana thwarts her
Margery fights Wilhelmenia
Margery kills Tanaka's girlfriend
Margery wraps everyone up

Actually it was something like this

Pheles shows up
Yuji Freaks out/loses control of his powers
*Fuzetsu*
The Sliver flame shows up
Margery starts to go beserk
Yuji freaks out some more
Pheles tries to steal Reiju Maigo, beats Shana up
Pheles starts to weaken
Shana thwarts her
Margery fights Wilhelmenia
Margery kills Tanaka's girlfriend
Tanaka opens his eyes for the first time
Margery tries to kill Yuji
Pheles kinda protects him
Wilhelmenia and Shana knockout Pheles and Margery
Everyone finds out Yuji's Flame color is Sliver
Tanaka whines to Margery
Margery calms down
Pheles Tells Margery that something is up with the Reiju Maigo
Margery wraps everyone up
*End Fuzetsu*

Kristen

2008-01-14, 20:31

Actually it was something like this

Pheles shows up
Yuji Freaks out/loses control of his powers
*Fuzetsu*/The Sliver flame shows up
Margery starts to go beserk
Pheles tries to steal Reiju Maigo, beats Shana up
Pheles starts to weaken/Shana thwarts her
Margery fights Wilhelmenia
Margery kills Tanaka's girlfriend
Tanaka opens his eyes for the first time
Margery tries to kill Yuji/Pheles kinda protects him
Wilhelmenia and Shana knockout Pheles and Margery

Cut out everything after the knockout. That's not part of the fight material, it's the post-fight material. Maybe it's plot for the episode, but I'm arguing that the fight had not plot. I also combined the silver flame with the Fuzetsu, as that is the same plot event. I also combined the weakening/thwarting, as that is also the same plot event. I'm also 50/50 on whether the killing of the girlfriend and Tanaka's opening of the eyes is the same event or not.
Regardless, combining details into the events they were a part of, it's a much shorter list.

Sterling01

2008-01-14, 20:50

I really don't care, to tell you the truth. I really liked the fight but I'm with you on the fact that most of the plot came after the fight

lua thien

2008-01-14, 22:20

Looks like a flaw was made in the episode. Satou and Eita didn't have blue insignias around them while in the Fuzetsu.

Tokkan

2008-01-14, 23:23

Looks like a flaw was made in the episode. Satou and Eita didn't have blue insignias around them while in the Fuzetsu.

I never really cared for that, it was ugly. If they can move, they can move, they don't need something like that to distinguish them apart from the people who move because of hougus (Yuji, Yoshida) and the people whom are Crimson World-related.

Master Chibi

2008-01-15, 00:09

Here let me simplify that list for you guys even more

1. Tornado
2. No tornado.
3. Symmetrical docking.

Aquifina

2008-01-15, 00:55

I've been persuaded by this thread that I was overly hard on the episode. The long lay-off raised expectations too high for me; I probably need to find the time to properly see it again to appreciate it.

The Real Nemo

2008-01-15, 01:11

Cut out everything after the knockout. That's not part of the fight material, it's the post-fight material. Maybe it's plot for the episode, but I'm arguing that the fight had not plot. I also combined the silver flame with the Fuzetsu, as that is the same plot event. I also combined the weakening/thwarting, as that is also the same plot event. I'm also 50/50 on whether the killing of the girlfriend and Tanaka's opening of the eyes is the same event or not.
Regardless, combining details into the events they were a part of, it's a much shorter list.
Sometimes a fight can be just a fight, like was pointed out neither Pheles or Marjory were really thinking about strategy at the time.

Xhokhusmak

2008-01-15, 04:58

I'm trying my best not to say "owned" but...

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5434/snapshot20080115015642xh6.png

this is the most gruesome death of the entire series.

Keroko

2008-01-15, 05:20

Actually, the anime is the first I've ever seen of Shana. :p

Whoops, sorry for the assumption then.

That last passage reminded me of Haruhi. Heh.

:heh:

But in all seriousness, I guess everything is plot, and I'm just arguing that this is very hollow and boring plot. To me, it was just reiterating everything we already knew, save that something is wrong with the Reiju Maigu.

Okay, I can hardly argue whether you found the plot boring or not. Having you aknowledge that there is plot is enough 'victory' for me. :D:p

*Fuzetsu*
Shana runs to find the twins
Blutsaguer, and the explanation of what it is
Shana realizes the flower is causing the Fuzetsu (thingy...)
Shana tries to destroy the flower
Shana is caught
Yuji and Margery destroy the torches
Shana's sword is taken
Shana breaks free of the trap
Shana destroys one of the twins
Yuji climbs the bridge
Margery meets metamorphosis, they fight
Metamorphosis discovers the Reiju Maigu in Yuji
Shana destroys the other twin
Metamorphosis runs away
*End Fuzetsu*
Granted, I misplaced some things and got some little details wrong, since I haven't seen that in a while. But, here is the plot of this last fight:

Pheles shows up
*Fuzetsu*
Margery starts to go beserk
Pheles tries to steal Reiju Maigo, Shana thwarts her
Margery fights Wilhelmenia
Margery kills Tanaka's girlfriend
Margery wraps everyone up
Anything after that is plot in the story, as the fight was over.

Ah, that explains a few of our misconceptions. You see, what you just described is not what I call plot, I call that battle choreography. Plot is something that adds to the story as a whole, something that has longer term effects, but things like Shana's sword being taken doesn't really affect the plot in any way.

In terms of battle choreography, more happened in the twins fight, yes. But then the twins fight was also much longer.

I would be shocked, as would anyone, to see that. However, after realizing that it's just an imaginary world and everything will be restored to the way it used to be, I wouldn't continue to go beserk. Rather, I'd keep a calm demeanor and wait it out.

When was the last time we saw Tanaka keeping a calm demeanor? For someone like him, the reaction was perfectly natural.

Note that this is going to sound sarcastic, but I honestly do not mean it to be.
I'm sorry. I kind of forgot that ASuki isn't like the other boards I've been to, where people tended to argue with me just because they wanted to argue with me so that they could trip me up on one little thing and use it to discredit my entire argument. I'm just not really used to having an argument to somebody who actually believes their side of the story, rather than trying to play the devil's advocate in order to make me feel terrible. For my accusations, I'm sorry.

No offense taken, don't worry about it.

Kristen

2008-01-15, 08:22

Whoops, sorry for the assumption then.

:heh:

Okay, I can hardly argue whether you found the plot boring or not. Having you aknowledge that there is plot is enough 'victory' for me. :D:p
Heh. All stories have plot, it's just some can be really hollow and repetitive.

Ah, that explains a few of our misconceptions. You see, what you just described is not what I call plot, I call that battle choreography. Plot is something that adds to the story as a whole, something that has longer term effects, but things like Shana's sword being taken doesn't really affect the plot in any way.

In terms of battle choreography, more happened in the twins fight, yes. But then the twins fight was also much longer.
Heh, yeah, that's what I've been arguing the entire time. "The plot of the battle". AKA, what happens between the point where the fight starts, and where it ends.

When was the last time we saw Tanaka keeping a calm demeanor? For someone like him, the reaction was perfectly natural.

No offense taken, don't worry about it.

I've seen him react calmly a lot. It's just that the reaction after knowing that everything was in the Fuzetsu ready to be fixed was completely unnatural. It was like trying to pour yourself a bowl of cereal, missing the bowl, and then feeling upset that you wouldn't get any breakfast, even though you can easily just pick it off the table and put it back in the bowl.

Also, just a note on the series as a whole. I'm surprised they haven't brought Oga or Ike into the world of the story, keeping them oblivious to it. Like, I thought they might be torched somewhere along the way, or told the truth like Yoshida...

Tokkan

2008-01-15, 11:40

I've seen him react calmly a lot. It's just that the reaction after knowing that everything was in the Fuzetsu ready to be fixed was completely unnatural. It was like trying to pour yourself a bowl of cereal, missing the bowl, and then feeling upset that you wouldn't get any breakfast, even though you can easily just pick it off the table and put it back in the bowl.

Oh come on, if you see someone you care deeply about get an arm and a leg ripped off, then regardless of the situation you're going to freak out and panic. You're confusing a logical reaction with a natural one, humans are in most situations not very logical at all. Tanaka's reaction was very natural.

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-15, 12:02

Machina

2008-01-15, 12:17

How did I not notice the panty shots?

Sinestra

2008-01-15, 15:52

To take this thread away from the engaging debate and go on a lighter note for a while:

Does anyone find it hilarious at the end when Shana is surrounded and photographed by all the guys? Even though it is a school festival, such zealous flashing away is as though they're in some anime convention cosplay event. :heh:

And this has got to be the episode with the most panty shots I've seen since the last episode of Series I and the Movie, even Oga-chan gets some fan-service shots while being tossed by Margery's fireball.

HA i was so involved with the actual plot that whole series of scenes slipped my mind nice call. But yes there were quite a few panty shots in this one episode and WTF who the hell were those guys and why were they on school grounds. It looked like a Cosplay convention.

DX HBK

2008-01-15, 20:28

I don't know if having fanservice while people getting killed in the Fuzetsu is a good combination.

MidoriHiME

2008-01-15, 22:29

THIS is Shana at its best. Absolutely awesome fight - 10/10 for me. It was worth waiting through 12 episodes of filler for this. I can't wait to see how things develop from here~

And for the record, I didn't even notice the panty shots.

teachopvutru

2008-01-16, 00:48

This episode was amazing. Too bad it felt kinda short... before I realized it the episode was already over. Definitely want more. :)

The soundtrack was good, too.

How did I not notice the panty shots?

Hmmm, even after reading this before watching this episode, I didn't notice any panty shots either :heh:

Irenicus

2008-01-16, 01:24

Hmmm, even after reading this before watching this episode, I didn't notice any panty shots either :heh:
There was a panty shot? :confused:

gekko

2008-01-16, 07:35

didn't see it either. It's not just a pantyshot, you can see that she has nothing underneath her dress but underwear

Machina

2008-01-16, 10:51

Weird. Maybe the ones who saw it were actually looking for it?

FlareKnight

2008-01-16, 11:47

Yeah somehow with all the destruction and people getting injured in the fuzetsu things like panty shots went unnoticed. Could go back and was able to spot them, but probably wouldn't have noticed without someone saying something about it.

Mai Kawasumi

2008-01-16, 12:22

Pantsu you say?
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9909/1199989448612se8.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1199989448612se8.jpg)

Best episode so far

Guys taking pictures of Shana = Hilarious :heh:

Satou is now more jealous of Yuuji... it seems

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-16, 12:45

Before anyone labels me as an "open hentai", I too only noticed the panty shots upon reading up some comments in some blogs, so at best I'm a "closet hentai". :cool:

Machina

2008-01-16, 12:46

Satou is now more jealous of Yuuji... it seems

I think Satou can see that Shana likes Yuuji and wishes Margery would like him the same way xP

teachopvutru

2008-01-16, 17:54

Pantsu you say?
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9909/1199989448612se8.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1199989448612se8.jpg)

ZOMG... That's madness <.< How were you able to spot them?

You are worthy of my quote! ;)

I think Satou can see that Shana likes Yuuji and wishes Margery would like him the same way xP

:heh:
Pretty brave of him, eh?

Malzar

2008-01-16, 18:23

Its strange Yuji didn't notice yet that shana loves him. There are so many clues to it and he still don't get it xD

Deathkillz

2008-01-16, 18:38

Even with the pantsu mention and then watching with the subs, I failed to find any...
*looks at screencaps* *feels defeated*

On the brightside, it means that I'm innocent :heh:

Machina

2008-01-16, 21:51

I also felt defeated xD Normally I would notice that... I can find explanations for missing it,though:

1- It's not Dragonaut, in which the fanservice SCREAMS in your face...At least, not all the time

2- I was too busy dreaming about SatouXMargery (don't ask) and Marco

Toreno

2008-01-17, 07:34

Pantsu you say?
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9909/1199989448612se8.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1199989448612se8.jpg)

omg, how did I miss them? :twitch:

minhtam1638

2008-01-17, 10:39

Its strange Yuji didn't notice yet that shana loves him. There are so many clues to it and he still don't get it xD

Actually, I'm starting to think he's more in denial than ignorant.

Machina

2008-01-17, 12:49

Actually, I'm starting to think he's more in denial than ignorant.

HOMG, totally agreed. And I think Yuuji is AWESOME.

teachopvutru

2008-01-17, 17:04

HOMG, totally agreed. And I think Yuuji is AWESOME.

Hmmm... I think you are the first one who ever say that. :heh:

But meh, I hope Kazumi gets kicked out of the harem soon... Well, pretty cruel of me to say that, I guess. :p

Kristen

2008-01-17, 17:18

Hmmm... I think you are the first one who ever say that. :heh:

But meh, I hope Kazumi gets kicked out of the harem soon... Well, pretty cruel of me to say that, I guess. :p

Heh. Am I the only person alive who wants her to win?:heh:

teachopvutru

2008-01-17, 17:27

Heh. Am I the only person alive who wants her to win?:heh:

probably not only but I would say very few. But meh, I honestly don't want something like Shuffle or Ichigo 100% ... I got heartache finishing those. :( It would probably be worse in Shana since I like Shana a lot more.

Plus, Kazumi's character barely appeal to me, that is, if any at all. Until you made that post though, I thought no one wanted Kazumi to win... despite how presumptuous it is to say "no one"

FlareKnight

2008-01-17, 21:42

Heh. Am I the only person alive who wants her to win?:heh:I'm sure there are otehrs out there somewhere. Though I'm much more on side with Shana. Just never thought much on Kazumi being able to win. With her growing up and Yuji staying at that size eventually she'll be tossed in jail for a relationship with him.

But really was always preferable to Shana. In the end its up to everyone to make up their mind.

OverFunk

2008-01-18, 14:09

Actually, I'm starting to think he's more in denial than ignorant.
He does mention that back then at the beginning of the season. "No, Shana couldn't have possibly said that to me".

Midori Chi

2008-01-18, 14:33

I love Kazumi, but I really hope Shana and Yuji will be the couple in the end. Kazumi should be with Yuki's best friend. Argh. I forget his name. XD

Pheles is pretty!! 0_______0

Kristen

2008-01-18, 16:52

probably not only but I would say very few. But meh, I honestly don't want something like Shuffle or Ichigo 100% ... I got heartache finishing those. :( It would probably be worse in Shana since I like Shana a lot more.

Plus, Kazumi's character barely appeal to me, that is, if any at all. Until you made that post though, I thought no one wanted Kazumi to win... despite how presumptuous it is to say "no one"

Hm... I never really liked the ShanaXYuji relationship. To me, it would be sort of forced, since they are kind of opposite. Like, Shana can be very grouchy at times, and I have to admit, mean. She cares for him, yes, but she doesn't really know how to care for him.

Kazumi, on the other hand, seems to be like a natural fit for him. She's sweet, shy, and cheerful most of the time.

I also think Shana could possibly be an abusive wife, considering how she has already hit Yuji a couple times with that wooden sword. <.< >.>.

Yudori Chi: Yuki's best friend would be Kyon, but that's not exactly the right anime. :p. Ike is the name you're looking for.

Echoes

2008-01-18, 16:55

Pheles is more than pretty, she's gorgeous. Alas, I always fall for the green-haired women.

This episode was epic.

teachopvutru

2008-01-18, 17:43

Hm... I never really liked the ShanaXYuji relationship. To me, it would be sort of forced, since they are kind of opposite. Like, Shana can be very grouchy at times, and I have to admit, mean. She cares for him, yes, but she doesn't really know how to care for him.

Kazumi, on the other hand, seems to be like a natural fit for him. She's sweet, shy, and cheerful most of the time.

I also think Shana could possibly be an abusive wife, considering how she has already hit Yuji a couple times with that wooden sword. <.< >.>.

I kind of agree with you, but with Shana's tsundere tendency, I think it would go both ways. So I would say she sometime become an abusive wife and sometime submissive (I don't exactly mean submissive, but w/e). The way it's going, I think Shana is gearing toward the latter more... since she has been becoming a lot softer. Plus, maybe because Shana has a loli look, it's hard for me to match her with the image of an "abusive wife" @_@.

Personally, I think Shana is sweeter (and she's both frank + shy at the same time), although I agree that she doesn't really know how to express her feelings (well, there's a reason why she's a tsundere).

I don't agree with the part about Shana and Yuji's personalities being opposite though. And if you ask me "how come?" Would the answer "because it doesn't seem that way to me." be suffice? :p

holyman282

2008-01-18, 20:29

You know that statement made me think that apart from training I've never seen her physically hit Yuji or hurt him... When she gets jealous or angry, she just sort of implodes it within herself and isolate herself. In terms of being an abusive wife, I guess it won't reach the boudary of physically abusive and more emotionally.

Midori Chi

2008-01-18, 20:41

Kristen

2008-01-18, 21:31

You know that statement made me thing that apart from training I've never seen her physically hit Yuji or hurt him... When she gets jealous or angry, she just sort of implodes it within herself and isolate herself. In terms of being an abusive wife, I guess it won't reach the boudary of physically abusive and more emotionally.

Season 1 early on when she was trying to get him to feel the killing intent. At the start of Yuji's training, where everytime he failed, she would hit him with that stick.

holyman282

2008-01-19, 02:29

Season 1 early on when she was trying to get him to feel the killing intent. At the start of Yuji's training, where everytime he failed, she would hit him with that stick.

Yes, but like i said, apart from training she never physically hurt him. Getting him to feel the killing intent was a sort of training was it not?

teachopvutru

2008-01-19, 02:35

Yes, but like i said, apart from training she never physically hurt him. Getting him to feel the killing intent was a sort of training was it not?

Well, the only time I remember that it wasn't for the training was when Shana made the rock-paper-scissor example in episode 10... There may be others, but it has been a while since I last watched season 1...

Kristen

2008-01-19, 08:20

Yes, but like i said, apart from training she never physically hurt him. Getting him to feel the killing intent was a sort of training was it not?

Yes. However, she was hitting him out of frustration when he failed to keep his eyes open, rather than as part of the training. Hence, abuse. :p

lua thien

2008-01-19, 11:27

no they can't. in the beginning a tomogara doesn't exist in the human world, so they need POE to exist. but because they are the equivalent of humans in the guze world, they can only use POE which is from the humans of the human world. so they can only eat humans.

ps: city devouring is feared because it can converts everything, including trees' and stones' POE into POE the tomogara can use. it can give the user unimaginable powers.

You mentioned about City Devourer being able to convert PoE of trees and stones into PoE that Tomogara can use. Then that just means that anything has PoE but it may not be in a form that Tomogara can use.

Is it only PoE from just humans or can it be any form of sentient life?

cnnydz

2008-01-19, 12:13

You mentioned about City Devourer being able to convert PoE of trees and stones into PoE that Tomogara can use. Then that just means that anything has PoE but it may not be in a form that Tomogara can use.

Is it only PoE from just humans or can it be any form of sentient life?

tomogaras are "humans" in their world, so only poe from humans can be used ( a guze tree need tree poe to exist and a guze stone need stone poe to exist). everything in the world has poe, if somthing doesn't then it doesn't exist.

DX HBK

2008-01-19, 17:05

tomogaras are "humans" in their world, so only poe from humans can be used ( a guze tree need tree poe to exist and a guze stone need stone poe to exist). everything in the world has poe, if somthing doesn't then it doesn't exist.

Before the Fuzetsu was invented, any humans ever tried eating a Tomogara?

cnnydz

2008-01-19, 18:07

Before the Fuzetsu was invented, any humans ever tried eating a Tomogara?

i dont think humans know how to. but there was one mystes who eats tomogaras

Guido

2008-01-21, 17:23

Very late to contribute my thoughts for this hell of a ride that was the thirteenth episode, nonetheless, I have come to do so.

I would say with safety that the thirteen episode was the culmination that all the fans were looking forward after getting hit by the wave of the long and sometimes dragged episodes that feature few or none action and just dialogue.

The first half was insane as Shana had to deal with Pheles but at the same time worrying about Margery's blazing rampage; Wilhelmina doing at her disposition to tame a rampaged Margery, even through force; and the shocking experience that Tanaka witnessed when Ogata-chan was caught and blasted in the explosion, caused by Margery's racket.

SeedFreedom

2008-01-21, 23:43

Late but this episode was epic.

First of all wow i'm so glad Oga didn't die. i would have been devastated. second, seems like happy union wont be able to last. With Margery and Pheles ready to rip different things out of Yuji, and Shana of course not allowing that, i expect a bigger melee between them before the end of the season. kinda wish i didn't see some of the spoilers, might have liked it even more.

Spectacular_Insanity

2008-01-22, 17:24

teachopvutru

2008-01-22, 17:29

I just watched this episode and it was f'ing INSANE. Students getting torn apart within the Fuzetsu (Oga-san T_T), The Interpreter of Condolence (aka Margery Daw) going out of her mind in a blind rage, a multiple-way battle between Pheles, Shana, Yuji, Margery and Wilhelmina.... it was all too much to comprehend within a simple 25 minute long period. >.<

This episode was definitely insane, although the battle ended a bit quick imo. It was a bit rush, too.

However, I thought you didn't know sanity in the first place, so shouldn't you be used to this already? :p (excuse my bad attempt at a joke :heh:)

Anyway, one more episode and welcome to the joy of waiting for each release weekly... :)