Clannad - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Klashikari

2008-01-16, 15:58

Welcome to the discussion thread for Clannad, Episode 14.

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The Chaos

2008-01-16, 16:00

Is it True This The Last Ep for Kotomi Arc ..

Skullator

2008-01-16, 16:03

Can't wait.

And yes episode 14 is supposed to wrap up the Kotomi arc.

Rookie103

2008-01-16, 16:05

Finally, wating for this thread! Means episode 14 will be aired soon.

Is it True This The Last Ep for Kotomi Arc ..

Yes.

The Chaos

2008-01-16, 16:07

I wonder Who is next ...I hope They Brihg Fu-Chan Back Again..^^

Rookie103

2008-01-16, 16:59

I wonder Who is next ...I hope They Brihg Fu-Chan Back Again..^^

Same, I'm sure they will bring her back. She seems like to much of a character to just kill off like that.

Steg

2008-01-16, 18:03

Speaking of bringing back, I wonder how they'll write Kotomi into future episodes? It'd feel awful if they just cut her out completely after this episode.

Kristen

2008-01-16, 19:09

I wonder Who is next ...I hope They Brihg Fu-Chan Back Again..^^

I don't know if saying it is considered an illegal spoiler or not. But, it's posted in the Spoilers and Speculations for experianced Clannad users exactly who is going to air next, and after that.

Takuto19

2008-01-16, 19:10

I'd like to wait and see who's arc is next, i won't say who i think just incase it gives anything away.

Really looking forward to this episode to see what happen's to Kotomi :)

Kang Seung Jae

2008-01-16, 19:59

Now, let TOE ring out!

Hope they manage to bring out the emotions this time: although they did a good job, it just didn't match the game.

Bankai29

2008-01-16, 20:29

I hope Kotomi doesnt decide to study abroad...maybe it has a chance to happen because sadly she isn't in the next arcs...:(

Proto

2008-01-16, 20:32

Hope they manage to bring out the emotions this time: although they did a good job, it just didn't match the game.

If you are comparing it to the Fuuko arc then I think it was much better done in the Anime than in the game though. Have faith in kyoAni :)

EXEs

2008-01-17, 05:44

Time for goodbye to the ultimate kawaii and moe of Clannad...Kotomi-chan. I'll never forget you!!!

Kang Seung Jae

2008-01-17, 06:23

If you are comparing it to the Fuuko arc then I think it was much better done in the Anime than in the game though. Have faith in kyoAni :)

Talking about the Kotomi arc itself.

Keroko

2008-01-17, 10:36

... Am I the only hoping for Tomoyo to finally hit the spotlights after this episode?

My two favourite characters, Tomoyo and Kyou, of which the first has hardly recieved any atention and the second only slightly more. I'm hoping either of these get their own spotlight soon.

Rookie103

2008-01-17, 10:49

When is this episode being aired?

IRJustman

2008-01-17, 12:22

When is this episode being aired?

Sometime within the next hour or so. I don't remember what kind of time zone arithmetic I have to do to get this one right. :)

--Ian.

Klashikari

2008-01-17, 12:39

It has been aired already 1hour and half ago.

done with the usual article (not bullet this time :heh:)
Episode 14: Summary and Screencaps (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/clannad-episode-14/)

They didn't forgot anything, and it really looks like the execution will go full blown for this episode.

Rookie103

2008-01-17, 13:11

Awesome, should be avalible for my viewing soon.

ChoRyuJin

2008-01-17, 17:11

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3631/247646295ea18912e8c3efesx0.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5774/24764629ff7446b184323d8pt9.jpg

Shiroth

2008-01-17, 18:39

The suitcase scene was rather powerful, as expected. If you're watching that and not feeling at all upset.. then i seriously don't know what's wrong with you. Great end over all, one of the best looking episodes if you ask me.

Is it just me, or is it rather difficult to make out who's arc is nexted?

Nite

2008-01-17, 18:50

Really satisfied with the episode. Like the end of Fuko's arc, it's well executed and it's very emotional. My only compaint is the japanese accents in all the different languages. This was one of my favourite endings in the game even though Kotomi isn't one of my favoured characters.

summer uniforms!

harukamae

2008-01-17, 20:13

My only complaint is that I wish this episode had aired sooner, so the Suitcase could have qualifited for SaiGAR. That's one badass suitcase.

In all seriousness though, loved the episode. Pretty mellow but still kinda moving.

As for the next arc it seems like they're developing Kyou's character as they go and in the preview, does she say something about not intending to back down (...hiku tsumori ja nai...)? my Japanese is rusty but I thought that's what I heard. Maybe the next episode will develop Kyou and start Sunohara/Mei's story?

Leo_Otaku

2008-01-17, 21:00

Wow that was really quite good They made the suitcase scene very well, I loved that part most of all. Seeing how it travelled to all those different places and all those people helped make it to Kotomi

I'm thinking it may be Sunohara's arc next. But I didn't see Mei 0_o....

todkapuz

2008-01-17, 23:32

Kotomi-chan~~~~~~`` ... er .. without the chan... I dunno... Kotomi is still my favorite.. it's going to be hard without out so much of her in the spotlight....

It was a very beautifully done episode, I think.... although sometimes I wish they would check the english they use :) But still.... i think the general idea here was well played... so many more stories to go, though....

Dagger

2008-01-17, 23:34

As for the next arc it seems like they're developing Kyou's character as they go and in the preview, does she say something about not intending to back down (...hiku tsumori ja nai...)? my Japanese is rusty but I thought that's what I heard. Maybe the next episode will develop Kyou and start Sunohara/Mei's story?
Kyou is actually asking Nagisa "Surely you don't mean to pull out (back down) here?" So she's not openly referring to herself...

velocity7

2008-01-17, 23:40

Regarding the episode 15 preview...

I'm not sure whether Kyou is asking if Nagisa is backing down from forming the club, or if she's into being part of the 3-on-3 for the basketball match. Either of the options would have been equally surprising to Kyou. That said, Kyou had no part in the discussion of whether she would be doing one or the other in the games.

Decagon

2008-01-18, 01:08

This ep didn't do it for me. I don't know if the past dream sequences in other episodes threw me off, but the transitions between flashback and reality made me feel lost. Near the middle of the ep I wasn't sure if it was dream or reality anymore. I liked how Kotomi's arc was resolved and how emotional the scene was, but it felt kind of corny at the same time. Again, maybe it's because the transitions break the episode into so many scenes, but it didn't feel coherent enough to carry me through emotionally--like a bunch of tetris blocks that don't let you clear any rows.

Haven't played the game, so can't compare, but I like how everyone stayed around and supported Kotomi as a kind of extended family.

IRJustman

2008-01-18, 01:22

[...] but I like how everyone stayed around and supported Kotomi as a kind of extended family.

When you really think about it, that "extended family" is all she has.

--Ian.

Ascaloth

2008-01-18, 01:55

Watched the TWH-Sprocket sub of Episode 14.

.......

That was...beautiful. Once again, KyoAni demonstrates their ability to pull out the best parts at the very end. This is classic KEY, a KEY story which clearly displays much of its origins in earlier KEY works, and just as beautiful for that very reason. Kotomi's story is somewhat like Shiori's story in Kanon; it may not be the first of its kind, but it's a classic because it works. And there's not much more I can ask from that.

Perfect 10, sasuga KyoAni (as expected from KyoAni).

Blog article coming soon.

BladeStone

2008-01-18, 04:09

This episode got me to well up, but not cry. I gave it an 8 (very good). Would have gotten a 9/10 or a 10/10, but I think the scene where she was opening 'it' ruined it with the encouragement telling Kotomi to fight. It just felt tacky and out of place and ruined the whole mood.

VRMN

2008-01-18, 04:10

I can't give this a 10, because while it was an effective conclusion to Kotomi's arc, it wasn't quite as good as the rest of the arc, and at some parts was rather disorienting (the sequence with the different languages for example was something that I tuned out for the most part –something that hasn't happened for me in the series prior to that point). In the end, it was done well enough to earn a 9, but had enough flaws for me to not consider a 10.

Moving on slightly, the "conclusion" presented here makes me wonder where things are going to go from here. If Kotomi vanishes in the next episode, I will be vastly disappointed, especially if the explanation is relegated to a couple throwaway lines ("oh, Kotomi is studying abroad"). Looking forward to the next episode, especially if they keep Kotomi around in a reduced role.

And is it just me or is the summer uniform /really/ different from the winter uniform?

Khaos

2008-01-18, 04:29

Near the middle of the ep I wasn't sure if it was dream or reality anymore.

I was puzzled by that, too.
Nonetheless, this was a very beautiful episode, it really moved me.

narutaki

2008-01-18, 04:38

i well never 4get you kotomi-chan takecare and goodbye sob sob sob...:(:( love u :(

Divini

2008-01-18, 04:58

As I watched the first part of this episode, it did answer a lot of questions. However, it didn't really bring out any strong emotions, which I was kind of preparing for when I started watching this.

However, when her guardian and the suitcase showed up..... wow, just wow. That sequence was so incredibly sad and happy at the same time. I really don't see how anyone can not at least get somewhat teary eyed from the impact of it all.

And lastly, the final part with Kotomi reading the letter, which then took on the voice of her parents, was one of the most beautiful anime moments I've ever seen.

As the episode ended I was trying to guess if either Kyou or Tomoyo would be next.....

And then the preview focused on Sunohara and Nagisa. :twitch: Kind of caught me off guard a bit :heh:

In any case, those summer uniforms are cute :love:

Stifler

2008-01-18, 06:44

Seeing Kotomi come out of her self imposed shell in the first half of the episode touched me. But it was nothing compared to the display of parental love in the suitcase scene in the 2nd half. That was really heartwarming.

Only thing I would have changed was all the different languages as the suitcase was passed from one person to another all across the world. I would have enjoyed it better with only the BGM.

CooKie D.

2008-01-18, 07:00

KyoAni certainly know how to bring out powerful scenes, and this episode was no exception. Simply Amazing :bow:

Considering they surprised us in Kanon by doing Ayu's arc before Nayuki's, I wouldn't be surprised if Nagisa is next. :)

I may have heard wrong, but could it be possible that next ep Tomoya confesses to Nagisa!?

I think I heard him say something about "telling the truth (honto no koto wo iou)" followed by the scene of Nagisa on the verge of tears saying she didn't intend to cry... Though the scene after tells me the possibility Yohei beat him to it :twitch:

Anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong :)

Even though this is the end of Kotomi's arc, I can't believe how impatient I am for next week's episode :heh:

Klashikari

2008-01-18, 07:15

Finally finished the article, and after watching the episode, here is the little opinion of mine: it was very satisfying.

The first half of the episode was well paced and much less sporadic than Kotomi's past in episode 13. They managed to explain very well Tomoya's perspective and the aftermath was quite nice. (in fact, it even beats the game, because the way he forgot her was quit brutal and with less conclusive explanations to me).
They managed to stirr very well Tomoya and Kotomi's emotion at the end of the first part (though i would nitpick slightly for the insanely fast and not smooth flashbacks when kotomi says she remembered of him).

The "interlude", when everyone is gathered didn't disturb the momentum at all, and it was quite nice to see the followup downright after this, as something is obviously not concluded with Kotomi.

The second half completely took the spotlight of this episode. My hat off towards KyoAni scripters as the flow and the execution were very neat, beating the game in my books (especially that it was much more convincing and logical that Kotomi's guardian figured out what Ichinose Koutarou and Mizue did before the airplane crashes, while it was Tomoya in the game).

As people already said, the travel sequence was unfortunately disturbed by the pletora of different language lines...
True it is respecting the game script and they made big efforts, trying to give "proper" foreign languages lines (though the french one has a VERY silly accent, and it seems most of them have, like the chinese one ^^"), but the original method was far less invasive and surprisingly more emotional for me.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6269/kotomiend1jt9.th.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kotomiend1jt9.jpg)

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6071/kotomiend1xb6.th.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kotomiend1xb6.jpg)

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3705/kotomiend3me8.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kotomiend3me8.jpg)

In the first picture, each lines appears successively.
Then, the original english line Ichinose Koutarou wrote. Afterwards, the screen goes white, displaying the french line, and soon enough, the dutch, and so forth.

I believe the sequence would be better with simply the BGM and maybe the landscape matching the current "appearing" line.

Ironically enough, the game version doesn't have the mistake of the anime for the english line :heh: (if you didn't notice, they put a S after "suit" in suitcase)
On the other hand, Kotomi's feelings were nicely brought, with the atonishing sakuga quality (though might be a bit overkill XD).

An excellent episode, worthing 9.5 in my books. While Kotomi's route is more powerful than Fuuko's, this episode isn't flawless, and earned 9 for its vote (technical and stand alone point) as result. A very well done conclusion for Kotomi, nevertherless.

Joachim

2008-01-18, 07:21

nicely done.... even better then the game (which also hit me quite hard ;_; ) i was even mumbling "isn't that great kotomi chan" during the 2nd half

did anyone realize the change from kotomi's cloth (first it was dark blue / blackish when she wake tomoya up in her garden) but in the end she is wearing a white/bright colour one, its kinda symbolic, kinda show that kotomi has past her gloomy mood.

I can't remember well whether the game has this scene or not (kotomi with bright cloth) someone enlighten me

Klashikari

2008-01-18, 07:27

I can't remember well whether the game has this scene or not (kotomi with bright cloth) someone enlighten me
Yes it does. She is wearing exactly the same dress, with everyone greeting her. It is very similar, and the game ends with the same scene: a CG with the garden, where the teddy bear and the violin are on the white chairs around the table.

Ruhisu

2008-01-18, 07:43

I won't cry! I won't! I won't cry! I won't cry!
I CAN'T MAKE IT!
I WILL CRY! I WILL CRY!

This... This Was just beautiful! I felt like my heart was melting from the beauty of this episode!
The scene with suitcase taking from hand to hand all over the world totally moved me, just beautiful!
For me it was the best of all episodes I've ever seen.

Kotomi-chan! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! :love::):):):)
I wish You all the best! :):):):)

Kristen

2008-01-18, 08:29

This episode warrents a 9 in my books.

It was a very well carried out episode, and it had the emotional impact I was hoping for. They just tended to use the repitition a little bit too much in this story. My guess is that Kotomi is a 4.5 episode storyline, and they wanted to go for 5 instead of cutting anything out.

And I love the clothes they're wearing at the end! Summertime has come! Nagisa's outfit is so kawaii! ^_^

And now for summer uniforms! Chrissie is one happy girl now, even though I did love the winter uniforms. I guess chronologically, we're supposed to be around May now?

Something tells me that this is not going to be a confession on Nagisa's part, as CooKie D said, as Sunohara is playing a large role in the preview. Since it ought to be time for Mei to show up, it's probably time for his route.

Also, since it doesn't seem like next episode starts a new main arc, it furthers the possibility that Clannad with have a S2

Ascaloth

2008-01-18, 08:56

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-18, 09:14

They took out quite an amount of stuff that could make the emotional impact better, though that's mostly tied in to the original game's romantic aspects between Tomoya and Kotomi.

Most notably, they took out the line where Kotomi said how she missed her parents, and why she wasn't in the plane with them, to which Tomoya yelled in tears, and saying she's still got him, who loved her dearly, and kissed her.

Nevertheless, not a bad episode. They shifted the focus from Kotomi's relationship with Tomoya alone and extending it to include Nagisa, Kyou, and Ryou.

I like the girls' idea of giving a redemption coupon in place of a birthday present. I remember my old man used to do that for Christmas, saying, "Keep this coupon. The item in this coupon won't be available till the 27th of December (when prices gone down)." :D

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3705/kotomiend3me8.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kotomiend3me8.jpg)

Clannad - probably the first Japanese anime to feature Arabic, Hindi and Malay dialogue. (The European languages are more popular with the Japanese. Not sure about Chinese and Korean. ) :cool:

Finally, Clannad summer uniforms, something that was left wanting in the original game, confined to a few scenes. Maybe Tomoyo in Tomoyo After, but we only see her in summer uniform and no one else.

Kristen

2008-01-18, 09:23

Blog article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD (TV), Episode 14 (http://www.riuva.com/?p=955)

Man, this episode was a lot harder to write for than I thought. Apologies for any drop in writing quality that may have occured as a result of the writer's block that hit me while I was writing this. >_<

I think your 9th picture is not what it meant to be. You probably linked the wrong one.

Kinny: What are the European ones? Like, would you be able to give me a list of all the languages used in that scene?

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-18, 09:50

Kinny: What are the European ones? Like, would you be able to give me a list of all the languages used in that scene?

From top down:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3705/kotomiend3me8.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kotomiend3me8.jpg)

1. Hindi
2. Dutch
3. I can't tell the difference between this and 12. One's definitely Arabic
4. (On the right) Russian
5. (Left) Portuguese
6. Japanese
7. (Left) Malay
8. (Right) French
9. Hangul
10. Simplified Chinese
11. Italian
12. Can't tell between 3 and 12. Either one is Arabic.

Kristen

2008-01-18, 09:56

From top down:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3705/kotomiend3me8.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kotomiend3me8.jpg)

1. Hindi
2. Dutch or German, I can't tell
3. I can't tell the difference between this and 12. One's definitely Arabic
4. (On the right) Russian
5. (Left) Spanish
6. Japanese
7. (Left) Malay
8. (Right) French
9. Hangul
10. Simplified Chinese
11. Italian
12. Can't tell between 3 and 12. Either one is Arabic.

Thanks. :) I think 12 is Arabic, and 3 is Hebrew. I worked all summer at a Jewish Summer Camp, so the writing is sort of familiar.

The Chaos

2008-01-18, 10:02

3 Arabic
12 Iran Words I guess
Since I'm Arabic :)

Kristen

2008-01-18, 10:12

3 Arabic
12 Iran Words I guess
Since I'm Arabic :)

Hm, never mind then. :p

I have to say, if any group completely subs this, then this is their worst nightmare.

SidVicious

2008-01-18, 10:12

Khaos

2008-01-18, 10:25

2. isn't german, looks very much like dutch.

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-18, 10:37

It's brazilian portuguese and not spanish.
Thank you for pointing out, I was thinking it was either Portuguese or Spanish, either way, from the spellings, I could tell it was Iberian.

Thanks. :) I think 12 is Arabic, and 3 is Hebrew. I worked all summer at a Jewish Summer Camp, so the writing is sort of familiar.

I would have listed it as Hebrew already if I saw it. The Hebrew alphabet is more rigid in appearance, whereas the script in 3 and 12 are "squiggly".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet

Ascaloth

2008-01-18, 10:39

I think your 9th picture is not what it meant to be. You probably linked the wrong one.

Kinny: What are the European ones? Like, would you be able to give me a list of all the languages used in that scene?

Oh, psssh... >_<

Thanks, Chrissie.

Keroko

2008-01-18, 10:39

2. isn't german, looks very much like dutch.

It is dutch. Made me smile, really. :)

Though I would have replaced the 'ze' with 'hem' as ze is usually plural.

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-18, 10:58

Bankai29

2008-01-18, 11:46

Very nice Episode...
Touching how the suitcase traveled the world.

Stupid Tomoya for not hugging Kotomi while she was crying as she said the lines of the book.

Summer uniforms was unexpected for me...but I think i'll like it much more...:p
Wanna see some Kotomi+summer uniform...:p:p:p(Hope they still show her.)
Ep15 It looks like a continuation of Nagisa's plus some Sunohara/Mei. Pfft...I wanted some Kyou arc to start...:(

Deathkillz

2008-01-18, 11:59

Very nice ep indeed :)
Even so...the whole atmosphere felt kinda suffocating to me. Perhaps it was because they finished EVERYTHING off in what was pretty much a narrated form, which not only lost some of the impact (same problem with last week's ep) but also it felt too heavy. It was as if they are trying to say "here are the facts and this is how it ends". Not to mention the thing about the suitcase rather farfetched...traveling around the world with nothing but a signature and a note saying "return this"...I know there are good samaritans, but people of that level are only found in anime :rolleyes:
Saying that though, I feel that it was nicely wrapped up - only if it could have been more exciting and less heavy. It did make kotomi look like such a fool when she found out that her parents didn't care about the thesis at all (yet she was still wondering where the piece of important info has gone :heh:) - but her crying scene broke my heart so it made up for that :3

Takuto19

2008-01-18, 12:43

Leo_Otaku

2008-01-18, 12:46

ReizoSan

2008-01-18, 14:31

10/10

Actually thought Kotomis arc was to end with her going to America to study so i'm glad she didn't heh.

Actually thought it would be Kyou's arc next, but yeah it seems like more of Nagisa's unfortunatly, was really looking forward to Kyou or Tomoyo.

I wouldn't say its a 10 category but around the 9 would be suited more.
The episode again didnt have a lot happening but with the amazing skills of Key and Kyoto they have produced a very emotional episode with parts of feeling like crying :), but just what you expect from what the other episodes have been like, if any company want to know how to make a good anime/manga then i would take notes from this :p.
I wonder what will happen in that episode with Nagisa?? but also the next episode is about Okazaki i think and he has to return to play basketball to play a team with player who ruined his arm (not his dad who i thought would of done that).

Lilith

2008-01-18, 14:45

Ep 14
Ah, that was beautiful. Personally I loved "global suitcase" scene. What a weird Arabic accent LOL *waves to The Chaos~* Ah they made a mistake in the game's text. :D Cute. I was really surprised but happy (nice to see Arabic in anime).

Since it's summer now and the violin is back, I can assume that a long time has passed (a month?). Kotomi is still here which means ditching upbroad scholarship, so we might see her again in the future...?

Kotomi was crying and blushing while saying "I like you" (suki!) to Tomoya and... Uhm... How day I say this... I was unsatisfied with the romantic aspect of the aftermath. :heh:

Next episode: Tomoya's arc? :eyebrow: I agree with ReizoSan, it's all about basketball. Nagisa is probably frustrated while encouraging him or something. Really looking forward to it! :)

Itadakimasu!

2008-01-18, 16:45

Great job this episode... the animation of the suitcase opening scene was neat. 10 out of 10

Question: What happens to Kotomi?? The gathering they went to ... it didn't seem like a farewell gathering, though I may be wrong

kimchipride

2008-01-18, 16:50

Now that I think about it....

Kotomi has a pretty annoying and selfish charcter.
She's lacks an annoying amount of common sense as well.
God she's noob

Ruhisu

2008-01-18, 17:14

Well she does not has to be everyone's lovely character ;)
You can say anything but I still love her :love:

Echoes

2008-01-18, 17:35

A stunningly beautiful episode, everything looked perfect. Kotomi's simply irresistible.

Regarding the subs, good work by SS-Eclipse identifying all those languages, you must have a diverse and knowledgeable stuff indeed.

IRJustman

2008-01-18, 17:41

Thanks. :) I think 12 is Arabic, and 3 is Hebrew. I worked all summer at a Jewish Summer Camp, so the writing is sort of familiar.

I can tell you one thing: Neither are Hebrew. Both 3 and 12 use Arabic script, but several languages use the Arabic alphabet for written communications, including Farsi (also known as Persian, which is spoken in Iran), Kazakh, Tajiki, as well as, of course, Arabic. However, since I can't read any of the R2L languages (Hebrew and Arabic are written horizontally right to left), I can't discern which languages both are.

While on the subject of semitic script, the Hebrew alphabet is also used for Yiddish, which has more Germanic origins; when romanized, it looks VERY much like German.

As for the Cyrillic-written passage, like the Arabic, Hebrew and Latin alphabets, many eastern European languages use Cyrillic, including Bulgarian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Serbian, Macedonian, and of course, obviously, Russian. Russian seems to be an obvious choice since it's a well-known language.

And of course, I needn't go into the Latin alphabet which is used for even MORE languages~!

Hope this helps. ;)

--Ian.

Sheba

2008-01-18, 17:48

Best episode yet and echoed more than ever the human group and solidarity theme. Yes, I meant the suitcase travelling. It brought in my mind two movies "Amélie Poulain" and "Pay it Forward" (starring the 6th Sense kid) for some reason.

Maybe because I have seen these movies before and absolutely loved them, I was accepting, and forgiving, the idea of an object passed down from one person to another one all over the world, because deep within me, I was hoping that human solidarity is not a concept lost in a world that sold out its values in the name of profit and economical growth at the expense of human warmth.

Actually, I broke down when Mamiko, err Kotomi, said "Welcome home".

Bernkastel

2008-01-18, 17:58

...

That was one beautiful episode. It deserves a big 9.9/10 in my opinion (I keep the 10 for the end :p). There's no words to describe it. It was just beautiful.
Since I have a cold, my eyes are wet, which makes me cry a lot more easily, so I couldn't help but cry during this episode. Damn you cold.

From top down:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3705/kotomiend3me8.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kotomiend3me8.jpg)

Sac ? :twitch:
This isn't just a bag, it's a suitcase :heh:
Oh, well, japanese always make mistakes when it comes to french anyway. The correct word would be valise, in this case :p. But I'm impressed, because apart from this suitcase = bag error, this is prefectly worded.

(By the way, during the suitcase travelling sequence, we hear the line being spoken in plenty of different languages, but I was just wondering if anyone heard french. I paid attention to what they were saying, but it doesn't seem like they said it in french. Maybe they didn't at all, which is why I didn't heard it, but I wanted to know if I just didn't notice (or maybe they just had such a horrible accent that I couldn't understand a thing :heh:).)

Sheba

2008-01-18, 18:03

...
but I was just wondering if anyone heard french. I paid attention to what they were saying, but it doesn't seem like they said it in french. Maybe they didn't at all, which is why I didn't heard it, but I wanted to know if I just didn't notice (or maybe they just had such a horrible accent that I couldn't understand a thing :heh:).)[/SIZE]
Yes, there are french, I could hear it. It was about the same accent as Hitomi Nabatame's (Shizuma) in Strawberry Panic.
I am forgiving because french is a very hard to speak language without a funky accent. Russians, Italians and Germans having imo the best french accents.

X207

2008-01-18, 18:21

wats gonna happen to the other characters? ie tomoyo and kyou. i was thinking that it would move onto tomoyo or kyou. a great ep nonetheless, i didnt find it as emotional as fuuko's arc ending though.

Klashikari

2008-01-18, 18:24

...

Sac ? :twitch:
This isn't just a bag, it's a suitcase :heh:
Oh, well, japanese always make mistakes when it comes to french anyway. The correct word would be valise, in this case :p. But I'm impressed, because apart from this suitcase = bag error, this is prefectly worded.
Huh... je dirais plutot une malette ou une attache case... vu la traduction et la tronche de celle ci ^^" (as you might guess, just some nitpick of the choice of word... so, completely useless XD)

(By the way, during the suitcase travelling sequence, we hear the line being spoken in plenty of different languages, but I was just wondering if anyone heard french. I paid attention to what they were saying, but it doesn't seem like they said it in french. Maybe they didn't at all, which is why I didn't heard it, but I wanted to know if I just didn't notice (or maybe they just had such a horrible accent that I couldn't understand a thing :heh:).)Yep, french was heard just after the english line.
"sii vOUS avay twouvay ce ssaac, veillez l'envoyer a noteuh fille". Ironically, I had much easier time to recognize it, unlike Quebec french (I beg no offense to any french canadian members, I mean the accent is so different compared to "european french" that it is a trial to actually understand some sentence, well at least for me ^^")

It really depends how people actually manages to suppress/add the accent because of their native language (see how "anglish" sounds by french/belgian speakers sometimes, might be worse than japanese engrish to be blunt).
But well... like sheba said, french is just ridiculously hard to learn/write/speak for any foreigner (except roman speakers, such like spanish and italian I believe... while germanic speakers might have some issues with rules and lack of accent)

Proto

2008-01-18, 18:34

In my case, while Spanish was not spoken and Portuguese was instead, the pronunciation it had was similar to how my Japanese teachers who are still learning Spanish speak, so I've sort of grow used to the accent of Spanese. (Japoñol :D)

But well... like sheba said, french is just ridiculously hard to learn/write/speak for any foreigner (except roman speakers, such like spanish and italian I believe... while germanic speakers might have some issues with rules and lack of accent)

Indeed. French is not as easy as Italian or Portuguese for us but it is still quite easy when compared to learning German or other languages... Japanese for example :p Suffice to say that probably I obtained the same level after studying 1 year of French than what I have obtained after 3 years of Japanese. Probably the fact that I didn't slack that much back then makes a things a little worse for the current me ^_^

Kaioshin Sama

2008-01-18, 18:54

Huh... je dirais plutot une malette ou une attache case... vu la traduction et la tronche de celle ci ^^" (as you might guess, just some nitpick of the choice of word... so, completely useless XD)
Yep, french was heard just after the english line.
"sii vOUS avay twouvay ce ssaac, veillez l'envoyer a noteuh fille". Ironically, I had much easier time to recognize it, unlike Quebec french (I beg no offense to any french canadian members, I mean the accent is so different compared to "european french" that it is a trial to actually understand some sentence, well at least for me ^^")

It really depends how people actually manages to suppress/add the accent because of their native language (see how "anglish" sounds by french/belgian speakers sometimes, might be worse than japanese engrish to be blunt).
But well... like sheba said, french is just ridiculously hard to learn/write/speak for any foreigner (except roman speakers, such like spanish and italian I believe... while germanic speakers might have some issues with rules and lack of accent)

Do you mean the so-called Romance Languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages)?

Simplified this covers Spanish, French, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian as a subset of languages that have their root in Latin. The structures are indeed similar to such an extent that it is much easier for a Romance speaker to learn to speak another one then it is for a foreigner to learn to speak even one. There's even a chart in there to compare and see how and why it is difficult for native Japanese speakers to pronounce the words properly. Also to add to Klash's post, consider in Japanese there is one and only one way to pronounce a set of syllables. Meaning as an example something like donner, or to give would more than likely be butchered as doneru/ドネル, when in actuality it pronounced Do Nay. It's not easy once you learned your native languages rules to break them. As another example, my real life last name ends with an X that is silent, but I'm sure people can guess how many people pronounce it in Ontario or just completely butcher the name altogether.:( Now imagine a Japanese person trying to pronounce it when as it's made obvious in Gundam 00 they can't even pronounce my real life first name, which is much last complicated.:p

And no offense taken, I'm well aware of the differences between Quebecois and European French.

Bernkastel

2008-01-18, 19:20

Yes, there are french, I could hear it. It was about the same accent as Hitomi Nabatame's (Shizuma) in Strawberry Panic.

Oh, looks like it was because of the accent then :heh: (Oh yeah, I remember there was some french in SP... No offense, but I had a hard time containing my laugh. However Hitomi Nabatame was probably the character in SP with the most decent accent. Of course she still had a strong one, but I think it was was better than Mai Nakahara's and Ai Shimizu's. The problem is, French is probably one of the hardest language to learn for a japanese (because of the pronunciation and all).)

Huh... je dirais plutot une malette ou une attache case... vu la traduction et la tronche de celle ci ^^" (as you might guess, just some nitpick of the choice of word... so, completely useless XD)

Now that you mention it, malette would indeed fit better, but meh, it's not as if I cared much anyway :heh:

Yep, french was heard just after the english line.
"sii vOUS avay twouvay ce ssaac, veillez l'envoyer a noteuh fille".

I really gotta rewatch that part :heh:

Ironically, I had much easier time to recognize it, unlike Quebec french (I beg no offense to any french canadian members, I mean the accent is so different compared to "european french" that it is a trial to actually understand some sentence, well at least for me ^^")

I honestly can't stand Quebecois ^^'. There used to be a french canadian show on a french channel I usually watched, and... I had to turn off the TV when it was time for this show. I mean no offense to french canadian members, I just don't like this accent, so don't be upset about it.

Flame-X

2008-01-18, 19:26

the whole "pass the suitcase on" felt ridiculous.

Sorrow-K

2008-01-18, 19:41

This was good, but not as good as the brilliant Fuko arc. I think part of the difference is that Kotomi's arc centered around making amends with the dead, while Fuko's arc was about making amends with the living, but there was something about Kotomi that made it much harder for me to become emotionally attached to her. I mean, I found her story involving, but I wasn't moved like I was with Fuko.

The suitcase scene was really powerful though... even if it does fall apart rather rapidly after a bit of logical scrutiny. Oh well, this is a romantic anime, so there are some things that we need to swallow. It's a scene that's driven more by meaning than by story. As a symbolic piece of animation and cinematography, though, it was incredible. The use of language gave it a massive scope and meaning. And SS and Eclipse were outstanding with the way they fansubbed that scene. They deserve so much kudos for going though and labeling every language... it just shows an amount of care and effort that they put into their work.

Overall, I'd say Kotomi's arc is classic Key, but that also means that it hasn't deviated from the formula enough to be truly memorable like Fuko's arc or even any of the arcs in Kanon. It was good, but having seen what's gone before it, we know this show is capable of so much more.

FCS-31

2008-01-18, 20:15

When father and mother finally say the word "happy birthday,kotomi".............
I cried......

Guardian Enzo

2008-01-18, 21:46

the whole "pass the suitcase on" felt ridiculous.

Maybe I'm just more hard-hearted and cynical than I thought, but I kinda agree. The whole tone of the episode felt overwrought and manipulative and, really, I was more annoyed with Kotomi by the end than anything else. It's just interesting to see the emotional reactions people have, because I'm certainly not immune to sentimentality in my anime by any means, and this clearly was a big hit for the fans. Just didn't do a damn thing for me...

holyman282

2008-01-18, 22:04

Wow beautiful i loved it! Like everyone the suitcase scene had such a big impact on me! I connected more emotionally with Kotomi then Fuko and though that her parents thinking about her happiness till the very end was very touching!

I am a bit confused as to a couple of points. The letter and what the old man said about her parents throwing away the paper just to put the bear in confused me. Does that mean they did it while the plane was crashing, so in other words while everyone was panicking, her parents sat down and wrote a letter then put the bear in then placed it in the suitcase? How did they get so much time to do that?

You could argue that they might of wrote the letter before knowing the plane was going to crash, but then why did they want people who saw the suitcase to deliver it to their daughter? Weird....

This was good, but not as good as the brilliant Fuko arc. I think part of the difference is that Kotomi's arc centered around making amends with the dead, while Fuko's arc was about making amends with the living, but...

I don't see how that would cause Kotomi's arc to lose brilliance compared to Fuko's arc, unless there is an inseparable boundary that makes amending with the living better then amending with the dead. Personally I feel that coming to terms with those who have died more emotionally stimulating then with those who are alive.

there was something about Kotomi that made it much harder for me to become emotionally attached to her. I mean, I found her story involving, but I wasn't moved like I was with Fuko.

You know many have said the same thing about the Fuko arc, that they didn't get emotionally attached. When it all comes down to it, personal taste matters alot in people's opinions of the show.

Kaioshin Sama

2008-01-18, 22:06

Maybe I'm just more hard-hearted and cynical than I thought, but I kinda agree. The whole tone of the episode felt overwrought and manipulative and, really, I was more annoyed with Kotomi by the end than anything else. It's just interesting to see the emotional reactions people have, because I'm certainly not immune to sentimentality in my anime by any means, and this clearly was a big hit for the fans. Just didn't do a damn thing for me...

Well that's just about how I usually feel about Key stories in general, especially the "overwrought and manipulative" part (I prefer to substitute manipulative for Pathos though), but yeah a lot of people seem to like it. And like you I'm not immune to sentimentality or being drawn into character struggles in anime (like I initially thought I was), but frequently these types fail to grab me. It's interesting to see though that other people feel the same way as I do about scenarios that are deliberately designed to make one cry. The success of such a story really hinges on how well you can coerce the viewer, and I like to feel eased in to something on my own accord and not really feel forced to feel a certain way in order to identify with something. That's where I think Key differs from other dramatic storytelling for me, the latter being more the kind wherein you are potentially capable of drawing more than one conclusion from a finished scenario. That is the kind of story I prefer.

Just some thoughts...:thinker:

Proto

2008-01-18, 22:14

I am a bit confused as to a couple of points. The letter and what the old man said about her parents throwing away the paper just to put the bear in confused me. Does that mean they did it while the plane was crashing, so in other words while everyone was panicking, her parents sat down and wrote a letter then put the bear in then placed it in the suitcase? How did they get so much time to do that?

You could argue that they might of wrote the letter before knowing the plane was going to crash, but then why did they want people who saw the suitcase to deliver it to their daughter? Weird....

Indeed, in the game Tomoya speculated that this was a letter than the parents wrote while the airplane was already doomed. Tomoya commented on how even the handwritting was not messy, or from a trembling hand, but firm traces from someone who is writing with conviction. Then, they threw the portfolio to the ocean before the airplane crashed. My parent's thesis? Kotomi asked. This is your parents thesis, her guardian answered. Their last message to the world is a message of love for their daughter. How they had so much time is a different matter altogether .p

Guardian Enzo

2008-01-18, 22:39

Well that's just about how I usually feel about Key stories in general, especially the "overwrought and manipulative" part (I prefer to substitute manipulative for Pathos though), but yeah a lot of people seem to like it. And like you I'm not immune to sentimentality or being drawn into character struggles in anime (like I initially thought I was), but frequently these types fail to grab me. It's interesting to see though that other people feel the same way as I do about scenarios that are deliberately designed to make one cry. The success of such a story really hinges on how well you can coerce the viewer, and I like to feel eased in to something on my own accord and not really feel forced to feel a certain way in order to identify with something. That's where I think Key differs from other dramatic storytelling for me, the latter being more the kind wherein you are potentially capable of drawing more than one conclusion from a finished scenario. That is the kind of story I prefer.

Just some thoughts...:thinker:

Yup, and again - interesting, because I really was emotionally vested in Kanon and didn't find it nearly so overwrought and manipulative as this. Even the Fuko arc had me somewhat interested and not totally devoid of feeling at the conclusion.

kaitoein

2008-01-18, 22:51

From top down:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3705/kotomiend3me8.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kotomiend3me8.jpg)

1. Hindi
2. Dutch
3. I can't tell the difference between this and 12. One's definitely Arabic
4. (On the right) Russian
5. (Left) Portuguese
6. Japanese
7. (Left) Malay
8. (Right) French
9. Hangul
10. Simplified Chinese
11. Italian
12. Can't tell between 3 and 12. Either one is Arabic.

Referring to iamandragon's post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1191340&postcount=56) in Clannad Q&A. So it should be like this:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1976/kotomipr1.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kotomipr1.jpg)

Kristen

2008-01-18, 23:04

Referring to iamandragon's post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1191340&postcount=56) in Clannad Q&A. So it should be like this:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1976/kotomipr1.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kotomipr1.jpg)

Why was it making it East, and went as far as Iran, only to go back to Portugal? :p

Falkor

2008-01-18, 23:09

The end of Kotomi’s arc wasn’t exactly what I was expecting, though it was indeed touching and moving. My favorite parts would be the end of the first half when Kotomi leaves her self-reclusion to face Tomoya and recite the lines we have longed to listen and the ending of the episode itself when they are about to celebrate Kotomi’s birthday. The suitcase journey and the multiple languages distracted me a little bit, but I didn’t find it as obtrusive to the whole situation. Mamiko Noto’s voice brought all the emotions for me, whether it was her crying as loli-Kotomi or her bittersweet lines, she didn’t fail to amuse me.

The background music was probably the aspect I liked the most from this episode, especially the track they used for Kotomi’s birthday. I don’t know how to explain it very well, but it fit perfectly in order to end Kotomi’s arc with a hopeful/happy and yet tragic feeling.

Bonta Kun

2008-01-18, 23:10

WOW.....just WOW, thats about all I can say. Such a beautiful ep.

I'm sad that Kotomi-chwan's arc is over, but since it looks like she isn't leaving I can live with it. Hopefully she isn't left out too much from here on out.

Unless someone can confirm that she does indeed leave, which btw I will kill you for bringing me such aweful news;)

Ja ne

Benny1

2008-01-19, 00:44

Hmm.

Well, the suitcase thing was kind of silly but powerful.

What really hit me with this episode, is Kotomi is absolutely beautiful. Not moe, hot, or any of the like, but beautiful.

Jer

2008-01-19, 01:11

I really love Kotomi as a character and this episode sums it all up. The part where the suitcase traveled around the world was meaningful but I ended up laughing at the different pronunciations of various languages. Totally cracked me up. :heh:

Ice Climbers

2008-01-19, 01:29

Overall great ending episode, but I cant help but realize that the Chinese portion of the suitcase letter was said so that it sounded like "If you find this suitcase, please take it to my girlfriend" :heh:

Oh wells

KholdStare

2008-01-19, 03:02

9/10, pretty good episode.

And now I know why I was so into young Kotomi. Her hairstyle looks exactly like Ink-chan's, if you know who I mean.

Khaos

2008-01-19, 04:08

Why was it making it East, and went as far as Iran, only to go back to Portugal? :p

I'm wondering, why it went from France south to Egypt, then back north to the Netherlands and again south to Italy. :heh:

iamandragon

2008-01-19, 04:29

I didn't play the Kotomi arc in the game since it wasn't translated yet. When the suitcase came up I was thinking 'that wasn't really touching at all' right before I bursted out in tears--another legend of KyoAni and KEY--I've never heard of a 'happy birthday' so ever touching and full of feelings...

Katsu Koneko

2008-01-19, 05:58

10/10

Wow..just wow..

This was such an awesome, beautiful episode. For me it was like one of the best. The suitcase portion was so powerful, I couldn't stop crying. It was just so happy and sad and yeah. ;-;

What a great ending to a great arc. :3

I have to admit..the English was spoken weird. xD

PhoenixG

2008-01-19, 06:41

Hmmm... I found a bit strange why Kotomi suddenly decide to come out the house and greet Tomoya. There is no explanation of it. Well but the ending was a powerfull one.

I ROFL'd at the dutch part, it sound so weird >.<

Klashikari

2008-01-19, 06:45

Hmmm... I found a bit strange why Kotomi suddenly decide to come out the house and greet Tomoya. There is no explanation of it. Well but the ending was a powerfull one.

It has been shown twice that Kotomi was observing Tomoya and the rest of the gang. She saw Tomoya working at 11PM, so the next day, when she saw him sleeping with the book, she probably decided to come out.

Skullator

2008-01-19, 07:09

I feel pretty pathetic.
I came very, very close to tears watching this episode.

And I'm a 20 year old guy who hasn't cryed in like a decade, so yeh I guess I was pretty moved by it all haha.

Kotomi <3

FateAnomaly

2008-01-19, 08:02

She came out because he was finally finished with the yard:D
One thing for sure, Tomoya would have good prospects in gardening if he can make the flowers and grass grow in 1 night.

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-19, 08:13

Why was it making it East, and went as far as Iran, only to go back to Portugal? :p
Probably just for artistic license, since Key reckoned most of the intended audience (Japanese otakus) have crap geography anyway. :cool:

The plane crashed in Alaska, yet the text in the visual novel mentioned the suitcase traversing oceans and deserts, but between Alaska (where the suitcase should be recovered) and Japan there's nothing but water.

Kristen

2008-01-19, 08:55

Probably just for artistic license, since Key reckoned most of the intended audience (Japanese otakus) have crap geography anyway. :cool:

The plane crashed in Alaska, yet the text in the visual novel mentioned the suitcase traversing oceans and deserts, but between Alaska (where the suitcase should be recovered) and Japan there's nothing but water.

Hm... So, I laid it all out on the map, the journey. Apparently between Alaska an England (The first stop), it would have to pass over Greenland, and icy landmass. Then it gradually made its way east, going to the desert lands of Egypt and Iran. I guess since it went west to east, it did pass through all of those places.
Then it got to Indonesia, just south of Japan, and then took a trip to Iran, and then Portugal? Then it flew to the Koreas and was just a trip over the channel to Japan, but they sent it to Russia.

Some silly people, these must have been.

X207

2008-01-19, 09:24

it sounds more like that it might have been passed around from ppl who couldve been kotomi's parents ie hit and miss guessing until it arrived in japan. eitherway that suit case's destination was forgotten quite easily. if iran, portugal and egypt left out it would make a bit more sense.

bismuth

2008-01-19, 09:43

An excellent and touching episode! I really feel for Kotomi. It is the culmination of the buildup of emotions from the previous episodes. This arc for me, has a greater impact than Fuko's arc. The main difference between the two is that I develop a strong empathy for Kotomi, which is lacking in Fuko.

This arc has left me with a strong yearning for more Kotomi goodness. I feel that they need to add another quarter or half episode to close this arc properly.

PhoenixG

2008-01-19, 10:07

It has been shown twice that Kotomi was observing Tomoya and the rest of the gang. She saw Tomoya working at 11PM, so the next day, when she saw him sleeping with the book, she probably decided to come out.

True, but somehow it feel a bit sudden.

Triker

2008-01-19, 10:46

This episode made me cry. I think Kotomi's arc is better than fuko's. It is more touching. The scene where Kotomi learned the truth about the letter than she burned and when she opened the letter and saw her father and mother's writing are my favorite scene. I think her mother's writing on the letter is the most touching scene.

I find that the scene showing suitcase traveled around the world is funny. I think it might be better if it doesn't have that part.

Rookie103

2008-01-19, 11:42

It gets a nine in my opinon, very touching, I almost cried. Can't wait for the next episode.

KaneDragon

2008-01-19, 11:53

Looking at the preview, Tomoya can play basketball after all? I interpreted "tell the truth" as revealing that his arm wasn't messed up, but that doesn't seem right...

orion

2008-01-19, 12:34

It got a "9" from me for emotional impact and video. But I decided not to think too much as to why someone didn't just give it to the Japanese Embassy for delivery.

monir

2008-01-19, 12:49

Almost perfect, but not quite. I think it was mentioned several times by the game players prior to the beginning of this TV series how it was a crying-man-game. I don't exactly remember the precise words, but the way I understood from those posts by the game players was that there was a lot of emphasis put on crying. To experience that particular element, the crying, I believe the show is forcing its hand by having Tomoya cry or shed a few tear here and there. Yes, KyoAni as usual is being faithful to the source material to their credit, but I can't help but feel that a crying-male-protagonist isn't really helping to make a case for how endearing a particular scene is. In fact, it's lessening the effect those moments are trying to convey. Some of the moments in anime where I've found a lump in the back of my throat had no crying male protagonist. A certain words along with the setting, mood, atmosphere and the situation have helped to accomplish and establish a touching moment. The subsequent teary eyes by the viewers can be out of sorrow or out of joy. Here, the show is just trying too hard to drive home the fact the show is bittersweet as it tries to portray each stories about the song of life by having the male-lead shed tears. I'm so full of it... Ah well..........

I've really enjoyed Kotomi's arc which I've felt is infinitely better than Fuko's. I am very much relieved to see Kotomi is still going to be around. How do I know? Well, she had to be around for six months to a year to have that violin fixed and get it as a present, right? :thinker:

P.S. The only time I believe I'll be open for some Tomoya-crying is when his own story surrounding his father takes the stage. I once again wish Sugita-san could have been the VA for Tomoya.

Proto

2008-01-19, 12:56

I don't exactly remember the precise words, but the way I understood from those posts by the game players was that there was a lot of emphasis put on crying

Hmm... I think it was the other way around though :heh: While there are a few crying scenes, the overall theme of CLANNAD is nowhere as crying inducing as that of AIR or KANON. But still, that is just the authors opinion, everyone is free to enjoy it the way they want to :)

Sheba

2008-01-19, 13:20

I agree with ProtoMan, the emphasis on crying has been more in Air and Kanon than Clannad. What some players has tried to convey to those who never played the game is Clannad's broader scope; instead of worrying who will be the end girl (like it is very often the case with VN to anime adaptations), the viewers have to gradually realize the importance of being in a group that care for the protagonist, crying is not the end of the mean here, instead, whatever comes to Tomoya and his group of friends should cement their bounds. This is how I saw Clannad so far.

Curulan

2008-01-19, 13:28

Oh and, the origin for Kotomi's name is made plain by her parent's signature:
Koutarou To Mizue
Wow; I can't believe I didn't notice that!

And sorry realists, I have to give this one a 10. This episode had me in tears from the suitcase sequence on.

Steg

2008-01-19, 15:44

Well, I didn't expect this to compare to the game (obviously) so it didn't have the same emotional impact for me. There just wasn't the same amount of development and it could only go so far without making Kotomi and Tomoya's relationship beyond friendship. Even so they did an excellent job with what they could manage (I almost go choked up, in fact) and I'm pleasantly surprised in that regard. 8/10
It'd also be great to see Kotomi in other arcs as others said, since they left this ending wide open.

Tiberium Wolf

2008-01-19, 16:14

Wah! Seems like when it came to the Portuguese line they used a Brasilian to voice the line. Seriously! PT != BR.

Flonne

2008-01-19, 16:46

Perfect 10. It had me shedding a tear or two. <3

SidVicious

2008-01-19, 17:57

Wah! Seems like when it came to the Portuguese line they used a Brasilian to voice the line. Seriously! PT != BR.

It was really brazilian portuguese.

Zaris

2008-01-19, 18:04

Almost perfect, but not quite...I've really enjoyed Kotomi's arc which I've felt is infinitely better than Fuko's. I am very much relieved to see Kotomi is still going to be around. How do I know? Well, she had to be around for six months to a year to have that violin fixed and get it as a present, right? :thinker:

Agreed on several points. I will concede that Kotomi has a nice, flavorful story, but that's about it. The plot points didn't feel very interconnected and the whole closure bit fell short. It didn't have that emotional impact for me as others here are feeling. I really really wanted to "get" something out of this episode, but nothing came out. I'm not disappointed or anything; I guess I must've expected it. But hey, you can't satisfy everyone, can you?

Two things: too much flashback. It was really hard to get emotional on things that had already happened, and for the most part, we'd witnessed it already in the previous episode. So there was a lot of repetative expository information, which could explain why the episode, if not the whole arc, felt a little short. The other thing was the events. From making friends to making jabs, violins, recitals, and gardening. Where did all this really lead to in terms of Kotomi? She still can't make jokes, her music hasn't seen any "improvement", and I don't think she took particular notice of the four days Tomoya spent slaving away in her yard (steps outside, and the first thing she comments on is the sky. Okay. lol).

Of course, I'm being sarcastic. But in truth, there were several inconsistancies that I felt didn't properly get fleshed out. It's kinda like getting a sweater for Christmas from your Aunt Jones. It's trendy, thoughtful, keeps you warm like it's supposed to, but you don't really want to use it more than once. That's how the whole Kotomi story was like for me. Each episode explored a certain characteristic of her, but she never really got anywhere. Yes, we know she has socialization problems, and yes, we know her violin can split land masses. But did she ever evolve from her weaknesses? No. And as each episode drew our attention to another one of Kotomi's defining traits, the less important the old ones become. So we don't get a chance to appreciate any of her music or jabs in episode 14, the word of Kotomi leaving for the states smacked us more like fox tails than with chain whips, and Tomoya's h/yard work was really what became the whole emphasis, and even that didn't get its full attention.

That said, I enjoyed Fuko's story more than I did Kotomi, but not by much. Fuko dealt with a life-threatening situation so the stakes were higher and the drama was more tense, while Kotomi's was more of a journey of seeking penance. But they both have problems of finding strong closure so in the end, it's simply a matter of which personality and body you found more appealing and what story you like and can relate to most. These last five episodes have been bland but entertaining. And hearing the godfather explain that there are likelihoods of unexplained, unfathomable phenomenons in the CLANNAD universe puts me at ease. Because it won't shock me anymore if something fantastical, unlikely, or unreal was to take place in the remaining half of this series.

And alas, some food for thought:
- Tomoya's must keep an awful lot of money from his dad to be able to restore a yard in four days. None of those plants could have been grown either in the time allotted. He would've had to buy and install everything himself. With that kind of dough around, he didn't necessarily have to pull weeds one by one in the first place.
- Fuko's cameo in episode 12 bugged the hell outta me.
- As already stated, Kotomi's parent's plane traveled from Japan to the US, which means the briefcase went down in the Pacific Ocean. It's unlikely the currents would have taken it all the way to France to the Middle East and back again. Or my faith in mankind's responsibility has been shaken.

Proto

2008-01-19, 19:47

- Tomoya's must keep an awful lot of money from his dad to be able to restore a yard in four days. None of those plants could have been grown either in the time allotted. He would've had to buy and install everything himself. With that kind of dough around, he didn't necessarily have to pull weeds one by one in the first place.

This was skipped in the series, but in the novel it was explained that Tomoya had secretly had a part time job in the past. In the end he never carried his plan out, but still the money remained in his bank account. He used it to buy all the fertilizants, flowers and gardening tools from a nearby home mart kind of store.

About the rest of Kotomi's interactions with the world, maybe it is because of a difference of focuses the reason I enjoyed it more. From my perspective, the past episodes weren't about the violin, or about she liknig books, or about she trying to make jokes, but about the interactions itself. The show itself is not a show about the daily life of the characters, but a show about how the characters form a family and support each other. When viewed from this POV, the arc was a great success, since Kotomi was both able to come in terms with his past and dead finally and render them proper good bye, and to take a step forward with her new family of friends.

Klashikari

2008-01-19, 20:09

This was skipped in the series, but in the novel it was explained that Tomoya had secretly had a part time job in the past. In the end he never carried his plan out, but still the money remained in his bank account. He used it to buy all the fertilizants, flowers and gardening tools from a nearby home mart kind of store.
Ironically, it is even more accurate in the anime than in the game.
Tomoya went out from the bank in episode 13, buying the manual first, then some tools. Afterwards, he says he took his saving from his part job when he planned to leave out the house, which he ultimately didn't. (the game merely says he had saving ups in one line, which was kinda "huh" to considering how he got these war funds).

It is a little too bad they skipped the delivery scene, where Tomoya ordered flowers plants the day before kotomi's birthday. (though they actually shew some of these in the last sequence of gardening)

Kang Seung Jae

2008-01-19, 20:40

Oh and, the origin for Kotomi's name is made plain by her parent's signature:

K&M

Koutarou & Mizue

Koutarou To Mizue ("To" is the Japanese equivalent for "&")

Thus Kotomi is the symbol of their love.

Actually, there's three alternative explainations:

1. Ko (5) To (1) Mi (3): 5/13, Kotomi's birthday.

2. Beautiful Harp/String (琴美)

3. (The world is) Filled with Harp/String (琴満)

Godly_senselessness

2008-01-19, 20:50

I was bored with this episode,found it disappointing especially since the beginning of the Kotomi arc was so good.

dgreater1

2008-01-19, 21:04

Actually, there's three alternative explainations:

1. Ko (5) To (1) Mi (3): 5/13, Kotomi's birthday.

2. Beautiful Harp/String (琴美)

3. (The world is) Filled with Harp/String (琴満)

Actually Koutarou to Mizue is a valid explanation. Same with "Koto (Harp's) mi (Beauty)" and "mi Full of koto Harp"

I don't know how you get that birthday theory though, since 5 = itsu(tsu), 1 = hito(tsu) 3 = mi(tsu)

Anyway, I guess they left it like that so that we could speculate on how her name came about, just like what the hell is the hidden world and how the hell did it come about, and how the suitcase came about as well...:heh::heh::heh:

Anyway, that unless you can point to me that KEY has a clear answer for those things :heh:

Proto

2008-01-19, 21:36

Remember that Japanese kanji's don't have a unique pronunciation, and apart from the typical Onyomi and Kunyomi, there are a myriad of name-surname specific pronunciations that they can take after. Likewise, I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese Kanji's for 5 and 1 (http://rut.org/cgi-bin/j-e/jis/dosearch?sDict=on&sName=on&sLaw=on&sJwords=on&sPlaces=on&H=PW&L=J&T=%1B%24B0l%1B(B&WC=none) had those. (and latter they simplified it to simple Hiragana characters. Otherwise a certain Higurashi character would go after them for plagiarism.)

And it wouldn't be rare for all of them to be truth and their parents just be a hidden meanings and Kaballah nutters. :heh:

Ironically, it is even more accurate in the anime than in the game.

Whoops, I guess this is when my memory starts getting fuzzy and I can no longer distinguish what was in the game and what was presented in the series.

For me, the cut scene that I missed the most was when they play aloud that little section of the Dandelion girl. Really, that scene was just gorgeous to read in the game :( However, that doesn't mean that I don't recognize the animation studio for being able to deliver this much in a mere 20 minutes. Kudos to them.

Matt Soulblade

2008-01-19, 23:07

...Beautiful. The specially liked the bear part, with the suitcase getting passed from place to place, because of the words that were written there. Awesome, IMO.

Episode 15... was that a rugby team member? Misae's route? Highly unlikely... maybe a filler??!!! (second season where?).

dgreater1

2008-01-19, 23:08

I was reading a blog when I came about a question like this "Why didn't they write their address instead?"

Theory #1: They could have written the poem and the teddy bear message as a greeting card for the present. When the plane was about to crash, they just took out the contents of their suitcase and stuffed the bear and the letter inside. They probably wouldn't be able to write a poem in just a nick of time. In the game, it was explained how their signature was cut-off with "K&M Ichi" and the explanation was they were probably in a hurry writing it, I bet they planned to write the address but suddenly came to a conclusion that they should put it inside the suitcase ASAP. The one written outside the envelope was what they wrote when they found out the plane might crash. The letter inside is the birthday greeting together with the teddy bear they plan to send to Kotomi after they land on the airport. And the part where her mother wrote they didn't have time to send it via the airport means they didn't have time to send it to Japan airport so they boarded the plane and planned on doing so after landing on America. There's a problem with this theory though and the problem would be with the game. In the game Tomoya speculates that they probably could have written the letter when the plane was in chaos. And her father's poem kinda looked like a last will. "The world is beautiful so even if it's filled with tears and sadness, open your eyes." is kind of implying that Kotomi will suffer tears and sadness, but don't turn her eyes away which is also implying that she'll be sad because they will leave her early in her life.

Theory #2: The same theory as #1 but a little bit twisted... not actually twisted... but cut-off... just like how their signature was cut-off in the game. And like my explanation from above, they were probably planning on writing the address as well but didn't have enough time to gamble so they stuffed it inside the suitcase ASAP, but in here, they wrote the letter first before putting it inside the envelope and writing their final message into it.

Theory #3: If so, then why didn't they stuffed anything that will identify about the suitcase? Actually, I'm more surprised that they managed to stay calm and write a poem and a message for their lovely Kotomi. People would normally be disoriented and not know what to do. Must be the power of love? So anyway, the only theory I have is, they took out everything in confusion and calmly wrote the letter for their daughter then stuffed the teddy bear inside the suitcase but forgot to put in some other information in the suitcase due to panick.

The only thing they didn't make clear is how did it travel in the world. But this part will actually base on people's speculation. Anyway, it was explained in the game that the "first one" who found the suitcase could had claimed it as his own but he probably thought it must be something really important so he didn't and instead acted the role of being a good samaritan... Since it didn't have any complete info on it besides the "K&M Ich" signature, he passed it to another person (probably a friend or a family member going abroad or going back abroad) and told that person to somehow, try to identify the owner of the suitcase. And so, the suitcase was passed down from people to people (from friends to friends, family to family going abroad) until someone finally recognized the signature and sent it to Japan. Anyway, I wouldn't normally entrust something I think is important to someone I don't know of.

Oh wait... they could have opened the envelope and identify that it came from Japan. So another theory would be, each time the suitcase is passed on to another person, they opened the envelope and found an unknown writing. Some people probably recognize the writing but not every close person to you is going to Japan, right? So they just give it to someone close to them who are going abroad, hoping they'll have someone close to them who eventually lives in Japan.

...Beautiful. The specially liked the bear part, with the suitcase getting passed from place to place, because of the words that were written there. Awesome, IMO.

Oh sh*t... I misread the message... I thought you were implying that the message "If you found this suitcase, please take it to our daughter." was written in various languages XD but anyway...

My prev. reply: I don't know if they're actually written *in various languages*, but I think is more of, "If you found this suitcase, please take it to our daughter." said in different languages as it gets passed down from people to people.

arkxkra

2008-01-19, 23:55

GREAT EPISODE!, very touching, tears almost flow out. The suitcase is pass through so many people and country and finally reach the destination with full of love. It very BEAUTIFUL~

Kotomi arc end here i think. Next arc is who? Nagisa?I think not fast to reach Nagisa arc...

PNGO

2008-01-20, 00:06

ehh I gave it a 7, not so touching like many people claim

FateAnomaly

2008-01-20, 00:35

It is quite improbable to write the will while the plane is crashing. The suitcase has to be in the luggage compartment in the first place. For them to decide that the plane is doomed, the situation must be pretty bad. Therefore, they should be strapped on with the seatbelts and opening the compartment at that time will endanger other people as well. (maybe they don't really care) Unless they took a private plane.

The plot is too deliberate to really make me feel anything.

Proto

2008-01-20, 01:11

You can have your suitcase located below your seat if it is small enough to fit you enough, which was most probably the case :p Still it's not like all this elements are contradictory with the reality parameters established by the show itself so I'm still left wondering where all the supposed forced storytelling and misplaced real life comparisons are coming from :(

Ikonomi

2008-01-20, 01:11

Well... The suitcase was obviously a carry-on, which makes sense as it originally held the important scientific paper. I'm assuming they took a passenger jet, as the parents were apparently in a hurry at the airport, which they probably wouldn't have been if they had taken a private jet. I felt that the story flowed quite beautifully, but I'm a sucker for this kind of thing. Knowing that Kotomi's parents, in their last moments, scribbled out a note for her in place of their ground-breaking dissertation...

Anyway, this episode really touched me. I knew what was coming when he brought the suitcase in, and the waterworks didn't stop until . The round-the-world passage of the case was really, really amazing, but what got me most was the bear itself. I guess it hit very close to home to see all of the emotion and meaning that can be bundled up inside a precious, little package. To lose the most important people to you and have them embodied in something like that little bear is very, very heavy stuff.

Straight-up tear-jerker. This series is great at that.

Zenemis

2008-01-20, 04:58

I would've liked to seen a slightly longer Tomoya self-doubt scene, but the ep. was good; solidly done.

suzukisayuri

2008-01-20, 10:11

I have cried when I play this part of clannad game,what mostly moved me is not the suitcame which symbolizes the love of people all over the world.I was just affected by kotomi`s parents who leave a perfect letter to their daughter in the last time of their life.What a great love!

Owaranai Destiny

2008-01-20, 11:09

Nothing much to be said, especially since the things I would have wanted to were probably taken mentioned already. All in all, quite a satisfying conclusion to Kotomi's arc, though I suspect that a few of the rather emotional parts might have been taken out as the arc wasn't meant to lead to a girl's ending, but to the continuation of the other arcs.

Still, I love the BGM played in the background as it brought out the mood, and though I didn't quite open the waterworks as I expected to, the scene with the letter and the various ones with the suitcase being passed around got me to shed several tears at least, as if the suitcase and the letter have some kind of a mysterious power for people to keep passing it on until it reached Kotomi. Unrealistic as it may seem (Assuming some of us would lace reality into something that's unreal, of course), it was a very touching part IMO.

Of course, it comes to a "alls well that ends well" conclusion. Kotomi didn't burn the thesis (so she was berating herself for the past, what, 10 years?) and we come to understand that Kotomi isn't exactly the "spoilt brat" a certain few made her out to be...Unless you're telling me it's the norm for kids NOT to want anything nowadays. Most of all, we could still feel the love that transcended death from her parents. Most touching indeed.

If I could, it would be a 9.5/10 for this, but as it stands, there is something that just left me not fully satisfied. Don't know what it is. Anyway, it's been one of the best episodes so far. Here's to the continuation of the next arc! :)

Cheezy

2008-01-20, 16:21

Very heartbreaking and beatiful episode.
The suitcase travelling scene was really emotional.

I hope Kotomi gets some screentime from here on as well. I want to see her playing the violin (except better)!
Kotomi is so cute when she's happy.

Reckoner

2008-01-20, 21:17

Ok, I didn't read all of the posts up till now so if I repeat what others said, sorry.

This arc is truly depressing to me. I am so sad while watching this that I even had to get up and pause the episode a few times. Before I continue, it is depressing because of how TERRIBLE this became.

There is just something weird about this show that I couldn't put my finger on exactly till this episode. I would say that 65% of the character emotions are completely forced. Tomoya's sudden crying made me cringe.

The attitudes of certain characters are just mind numbing. Every time Nagisa or Ryou wants to help I feel like banging my head on the table.

Kotomi had zero emotional impact on me this episode. It was the same old crap already introduced from the last episode that was just added to a little more. OMG your parents really loved you, but from what I could tell in her flashbacks, they did and it was NO MYSTERY.

The sheer ridiculousness of the suitcase traveling around the world is laughable. Hey this is Japanese writing, lets send it to FRANCE!!! I don't know if this show is supposed to be about miracles like Kanon 2006, but there is a limit to ridiculousness.

This arc was better overall than the last one, but these last two episodes sent it completely downhill. I'm tired of these over dramatized scenes. If it were not for myself being so far in this anime and that I am more curious about the other two girls, I would throw this show on my dropped list.

EDIT: I rated this episode a 3/10.

Kaisos Erranon

2008-01-20, 22:31

CrowKenobi

2008-01-20, 23:49

But yeah, I agree that the emotions seem forced sometimes. Would you say that this episode left you in despair?And on that thought cue:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/Jolteon/Zetsubou%20Sensei%20avatars/zetsubolighting.gif

:heh:

Kaisos Erranon

2008-01-21, 00:54

And on that thought cue:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/Jolteon/Zetsubou%20Sensei%20avatars/zetsubolighting.gif

:heh:

Okay if I use that as my avatar?

CrowKenobi

2008-01-21, 01:05

Okay if I use that as my avatar?:topicoff:PM Hakuryu since he made it originally. :topicoff:

On Topic: In the Favorite Character Poll, I said that for whatever reason, Kotomi didn't "click" for me... however after this episode, I have changed my mind. :D

:cool:

Gave it a "9"

Reckoner

2008-01-21, 01:35

The letter was written in English, if I recall correctly.

But yeah, I agree that the emotions seem forced sometimes. Would you say that this episode left you in despair?

Ok, yes it was written in English, but that doesn't change anything.

Left in despair? Not that drastic :p.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-01-21, 01:52

Don't know if anyone might have mentioned this, but considering that English is a so-called universal language, it would make more sense for Kotomi's parents to write it as such so that there would be at least a few people who could understand what they wrote on the letter.

Try not to force reality most of the time into a show like Clannad, else you would probably have dropped it when it came to the point where everyone was speculating about Fuuko being an astral projection.

Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with Tomoya's crying. You should have noticed he isn't exactly the type to withhold his emotions all the time, and sometimes there will be times where tears can flow uncontrollably from a person, especially if he/she felt emotions (i.e. happiness, being deeply moved) so powerful that caused the tear glands to react.

TougeSil80

2008-01-21, 03:06

I don't know why everyone is comparing this to reality. Come on, this anime is not about realism. I don't have any problem with the suitcase traveling around the world part, it's fine in the context of this anime. Fuuko is ghost/spirit, yet we accepted it fine. The conclusion to the arc is fine, but I still liked the Fuuko arc a little bit more. 8/10 for this ep.

tabun

2008-01-21, 03:17

A nice conclusion to a less pronounced, yet not less aloof arc than the Fuuko one. Less drawn out, as it appears to me, which is a good thing; but also not as much as moving (to me, at least). I am now looking forward to the fleshing out of Tomoya's background, as is hinted on in next week's preview.

Overall, however, I feel like I'm getting more and more detached from the show as a whole - maybe because it has lost some of it's pace. Beats me, I'll watch on nonetheless!

Reckoner

2008-01-21, 03:17

Try not to force reality most of the time into a show like Clannad, else you would probably have dropped it when it came to the point where everyone was speculating about Fuuko being an astral projection.

Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with Tomoya's crying. You should have noticed he isn't exactly the type to withhold his emotions all the time, and sometimes there will be times where tears can flow uncontrollably from a person, especially if he/she felt emotions (i.e. happiness, being deeply moved) so powerful that caused the tear glands to react.

The Fuko astral projection is meant to be unreal, its magical. I'm still going to use common logic with this to evaluate what's plausible in the Clannad realm. She gets weaker in real life, more people forget about her. So if she disappeared, everyone forgot about her. I know this is supposed to be a miracle of the sorts, but the idea is laughable is all. I'm just trying to find the logic in a suitcase going to so many countries and somehow ending up in Japan. In the dialog during the traveling suitcase scene I heard many languages such as French, English, and Spanish.

All I can say to Tomoya's crying is that the tears seemed unnatural. Whether you agree with me or not is just an opinion like mine. Yes people cry uncontrollably at times, but this definitely did not seem to me like one of these moments to me.

EDIT: I detest that the argument that we should not think of realism during an anime show. The different worlds in shows and movies are still based on our reality one way or another. Clannad still has physics, and chemistry, and people, and schools, and cars, and bikes, etc. When they introduce something like the Fuko projection, ok, that is something different in this world. I am not going to complain about something like that. I am going to complain when they introduce the idea of so many good willed people taking a suitcase through many random countries and somehow getting the suitcase to Japan. I do not feel as if I am conveying my thoughts to you properly, but like I said before I am justing using logic in my reasoning with Clannad.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-01-21, 05:36

I'm just trying to find the logic in a suitcase going to so many countries and somehow ending up in Japan. In the dialog during the traveling suitcase scene I heard many languages such as French, English, and Spanish.

EDIT: I am going to complain when they introduce the idea of so many good willed people taking a suitcase through many random countries and somehow getting the suitcase to Japan. I do not feel as if I am conveying my thoughts to you properly, but like I said before I am justing using logic in my reasoning with Clannad.

Tough, isn't it, to imagine that there would actually be someone with so much goodwill in him to pass the suitcase around? Just in case, my opinion regarding this is probably a little less skeptical than yours, but while it might sound illogical by the today's standards, it definitely isn't impossible. The scenario is most certainly riding it's luck as it is natural for people like you and I to disbelieve that there will actually be so many people so kind-hearted to return it, but having details on that would have been meaningless as the focus was on the suitcase returning and Kotomi's resolution with her own demons about her parents.

Perhaps I've been too hasty in judging your opinion, because a healthy dose of realism is good for any anime. Still, let us remember that the process by which the suitcase came to Kotomi was a method of telling us a little more just how precious the suitcase was. Sounds a little theatrical, but then again, I probably can't convey this the right way since I don't have the 'technical' terms at hand to use. :D

kingsky123

2008-01-21, 06:10

wasnt the suitcase thing in 'a series of unfortunate events'?

Sage

2008-01-21, 07:36

I found the Kotomi arc to be the low point of the series. I am really glad it is finally over. I'm looking forward to more relationship development between the main characters in the next episode.

Proto

2008-01-21, 10:36

Just barging in a little

EDIT: I detest that the argument that we should not think of realism during an anime show. The different worlds in shows and movies are still based on our reality one way or another. Clannad still has physics, and chemistry, and people, and schools, and cars, and bikes, etc. When they introduce something like the Fuko projection, ok, that is something different in this world. I am not going to complain about something like that. I am going to complain when they introduce the idea of so many good willed people taking a suitcase through many random countries and somehow getting the suitcase to Japan. I do not feel as if I am conveying my thoughts to you properly, but like I said before I am justing using logic in my reasoning with Clannad.

It's not like this is a new resource or anything. Suspension of disbelief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief) has been around almost since fantastic literature was born. Moreover, the main point of the episode was not really how the suitcase arrived to Kotomi in the end, although it is part of the overall dramatic structure. The main point of this was to show Kotomi's parents love for their child even in a most extreme moment, and their effort to convey that feeling. The main point was kotomi's receiving that message, coming in terms with her past and looking towards the future. As such, when suspension of disbelief is only asked for a secondary part of the story I don't think it can be considered as an overuse of the literary resource.

Reckoner

2008-01-21, 13:17

Proto

2008-01-21, 13:39

I do disagree about the suitcase scene as that was put in there to give the letter substance. The many people handing off suitcases to each other were trying to get it back to the dear daughter that is spoke of in the letter. Obviously these people were moved enough by this emotion to even go through with this. This scene was used to show how strong the love of their parents was that it made so many people travel around with this suitcase.

Hence why I said it was part of the overall dramatic structure without really being the main point. Although, it's good that we agree up to here, even if its through paraphrasing :p

And now, I agree with you that this part of the episode requires a great deal of suspension, and that to a point it was overstretched. I am not contesting that. *My* argument is that despite it being overstretched it does not sufficiently affect the main point of the whole event, which i mentioned in my previous post, since it only refers to a secondary dramatic plot device. If our suspension of disbelief referred to the contents of the letters itself (like Kotomi's parents actually being tyrannical dictators who in the last moment had a change of hearth) or Kotomi's had an out of character reaction (like her having an 'I want my mommy' tantrum after reading the letter) then yes, the suspension of disbelief would be too extreme AND referring to the core of the event, which would make the whole scene devoid of any meaning. Fortunately, that is not the case here.

Reckoner

2008-01-21, 13:54

And now, I agree with you that this part of the episode requires a great deal of suspension, and that to a point it was overstretched. I am not contesting that. *My* argument is that despite it being overstretched it does not sufficiently affect the main point of the whole event, which i mentioned in my previous post, since it only refers to a secondary dramatic plot device.

All right, I can see your reasoning and I agree. In my original post though I was only complaining about this plot point and not the whole scene ;).

avion48

2008-01-21, 21:22

Klashikari

2008-01-21, 21:25

The next episode looks like it's going to be the start of Nagisa arc. If it is Nagisa's arc then I doubt we will see Tomoyo or Kyou's arc. We will probably see nagisa's arc and then the after story. This sure does suck. I don't like Nagisa and I much rather have Tomoyo or Kyou.There is 10 episodes left and there is no way all the arcs that are left will be shown unless there are more episodes. I also think the Fuko arc was WAY too long.
It has been confirmed several times that Tomoyo and Kyou will have their own arcs as well.
And there isn't any confirmation yet that Clannad will be done with only 24 episodes, as information on a second season isn't confirmed or whatnot.

That said, considering the themes and the objective of the story, it would be highly unlikely they would skip main characters.

~Destiny~

2008-01-21, 21:57

I'm sorry to ask here, but can anyone tell me the name as well as the composer of the BGM that starts at around 15:01(SS subs)? I remember it from before, but I was never really interested in it until now.

PS: I have tried searching for it, but after looking throught the first few episode discussion boards I kinda just gave up.

holyman282

2008-01-21, 21:59

The next episode looks like it's going to be the start of Nagisa arc. If it is Nagisa's arc then I doubt we will see Tomoyo or Kyou's arc. We will probably see nagisa's arc and then the after story. This sure does suck. I don't like Nagisa and I much rather have Tomoyo or Kyou. I think Nagisa is very uninteresting. There is 10 episodes left and there is no way all the arcs that are left will be shown unless there are more episodes. I also think the Fuko arc was WAY too long.

Next ep looks to be more about Tomoya and his basketball incident then the start of Nagisa's arc anyway.

Fruitfly

2008-01-21, 22:31

EDIT: I detest that the argument that we should not think of realism during an anime show. The different worlds in shows and movies are still based on our reality one way or another. Clannad still has physics, and chemistry, and people, and schools, and cars, and bikes, etc. When they introduce something like the Fuko projection, ok, that is something different in this world. I am not going to complain about something like that. I am going to complain when they introduce the idea of so many good willed people taking a suitcase through many random countries and somehow getting the suitcase to Japan. I do not feel as if I am conveying my thoughts to you properly, but like I said before I am justing using logic in my reasoning with Clannad.

I liked the episode, but there was a lot of weird questions that came to my mind in this arc.
- Catalogs come in brown paper envelopes in Japan?
- Parents go overseas and leave their young daughter home alone? I'm going to assume they went overseas because the suitcase was in western Europe.
- They leave food for a party, but they take the gift with them? Okay, so they bought the gift on the way to the airport, but why so last minute?
- Man wears a trench coat over a suit when its hot enough that other people are wearing shorts?

Willcrusher

2008-01-21, 23:21

I liked the episode, but there was a lot of weird questions that came to my mind in this arc.
- Parents go overseas and leave their young daughter home alone? I'm going to assume they went overseas because the suitcase was in western Europe.
- They leave food for a party, but they take the gift with them? Okay, so they bought the gift on the way to the airport, but why so last minute?
- Man wears a trench coat over a suit when its hot enough that other people are wearing shorts?

- It was stated in the episode the parents were en route to a conference in the United States, so yes, they went overseas.

- They were looking for the biggest and the best.

- It's to make the character look suspicious. If he wore similar clothing, would he seem like a bad guy? Lol.

C.A.

2008-01-22, 08:45

The arc ended well, but I think I'm more prone to touching, bitter sweet, sad endings than such touching, happy endings.

I find myself struck harder by Fuko's ending, the arc's intensity per episode was exponential. Kotomi's arc was a wild ride, I was amused by the hilarious episodes but couldn't really feel the intensity build up when the emotional parts kicked in.

It was a good arc still, can't wait to see more.

mandarb916

2008-01-22, 13:56

- Parents go overseas and leave their young daughter home alone?

I'm going off bad short-term memory, but I believe they had a caretaker/nanny (who coincidentally was sick or something on the day of Kotomi's birthday).

Kotomi's arc, imho, wasn't horrible...and while I understand what the story was trying to convey with the suitcase, I think it was pretty cheesy...not necessarily the concept, but the presentation of it and ruined the mood for myself. It's hard to say where things'll go from here considering there's...10 eps left I think?

If I recall, even though the Nagisa arc overlaps with the Fuuko arc, it's still rather long, right? 3on3 was the split in the road for the Nagisa arc in the game so I suppose we won't get a chance to see the Kyo/Ryo arc...unless there's S2? :/

Rookie103

2008-01-22, 14:22

I'm going off bad short-term memory, but I believe they had a caretaker/nanny (who coincidentally was sick or something on the day of Kotomi's birthday).

Kotomi's arc, imho, wasn't horrible...and while I understand what the story was trying to convey with the suitcase, I think it was pretty cheesy...not necessarily the concept, but the presentation of it and ruined the mood for myself. It's hard to say where things'll go from here considering there's...10 eps left I think?

If I recall, even though the Nagisa arc overlaps with the Fuuko arc, it's still rather long, right? 3on3 was the split in the road for the Nagisa arc in the game so I suppose we won't get a chance to see the Kyo/Ryo arc...unless there's S2? :/

NO! No Kyou or Ryou arc :(

Proto

2008-01-22, 14:26

NO! No Kyou or Ryou arc

Relax people, KyoAni is just being a little original with the episode distribution and having Nagisa's arc develop slowly through the series. The future episodes will focus on a character you could not possibliy expect without spoilers :p

mandarb916

2008-01-22, 15:09

The future episodes will focus on a character you could not possibliy expect without spoilers :p

Kappei or Misae (the dorm manager?) lol

Rookie103

2008-01-22, 15:39

The future episodes will focus on a character you could not possibliy expect without spoilers :p

Kyou's boar thing? :D

dgreater1

2008-01-22, 18:48

I posted this on ANN but didn't have enough time to paste it here on AS (just like not having enough time to put a valuable information inside a suit[s]case...)

Read if you finished watching Kotomi's Arc

a poster said... I can believe some people just passing it on but someone, somewhere would have realised it would best be put in the hands of the police or something like. hell anyone reading the inside of the note (and you know someone would) would be able to tell it was at least Asian, if not Japanese...perhaps the trip to the Arctic was a bit extreme?

*********************
I have an answer to that question, although, I don't know if the message is implied in the anime... Anyway, the passing from people to people is just a theory of the guardian about how it traveled first before ending back in Japan because they found that there are traces of it being fixed many times.

In the game, they didn't just discover that it was fixed many times but found out that there are some residue of sands from an inland desert in Africa, you can see the sand as well in the suitcase in the anime.
Someone probably and finally sent the suitcase to the Japanese police authority and they sent it to the lab after finding out who owns the briefcase. I hope that clears some of the vague question people are having right now about Kotomi's arc.

Anyway, at least it finally reached Kotomi. And the most touching part is the unmatched love that her parents want to tell Kotomi as they were about to leave the world has finally reached her, and to add to that, right on her birthday... such a simple but really powerful scene if you ask me, especially when she told them "Okaeri nasai"... well, that's because they never really found their body which is a bit sad on Kotomi's side

You can make your own theory if you have doubts about her guardian's theory about how it traversed za world... what matters is, it went back to Japan after a long journey (which is a bit miraculous)

I feel a bit lazy right now but I hope that will clear your confused mind... but anyway, you don't need to take the guardian's theory as a fact because it's actually just another speculation on his part :heh:

Reckoner

2008-01-22, 21:02

CrowKenobi

2008-01-22, 21:17

In all seriousness though, a suitcase would not live a plane crash.Unless it was made by Samsonite! :heh: :p

HKCntBQM8Co&feature=related

:cool:

mr_winkie

2008-01-22, 21:23

Kidding and suitcase speculation aside, I thought this episode was great. though there's only ten episodes left to do the other character arcs....

Klashikari

2008-01-22, 21:23

In all seriousness though, a suitcase would not live a plane crash.
I think you are overestimating a plane crash. (Especially if the body of the aicraft is ripped to shreds at the impact, instead of the usual explosion etc).
There are debris and various other remains after a crash, and considering the aicraft crashed down in the sea, I don't think a metal suitcase would be destroyed like that.

kininku buster

2008-01-22, 21:35

I thought this a great episode but it wasn't such a tear jerker like the last ark. I'm really surprised to see how much a emotional guy Tomoya is.

Detheal

2008-01-23, 05:45

This was a great episode, I was originally going to give it a 9 but the suitcase sequence bumped it up to a 10.

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-23, 08:00

I think the CIA confiscated the suitcase and tried bombing it in New Mexico. Since the suitcase lived a plane crash it gonna live the bomb. Radioactive teddy bear, watch out. That is my theory for the suitcase.

In all seriousness though, a suitcase would not live a plane crash.

Unfortunately for your theory, the text from the original VN explicitly stated that the suitcase was made of duralumin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duralumin), a tough material mostly found on planes. And if the plane crashed into the sea, which it did, chances of the suitcase surviving is higher than if it crashed into solid ground.

I liked the episode, but there was a lot of weird questions that came to my mind in this arc.
- Catalogs come in brown paper envelopes in Japan?

Kotomi's dad probably ordered a booklet online.

- Parents go overseas and leave their young daughter home alone? I'm going to assume they went overseas because the suitcase was in western Europe.

The VN goes to lengths to explain more on these questions.

Firstly, Kotomi's parents were due to declare their findings in a special seminar in America, and so had to go on short notice.

Second, they had already arranged a baby-sitter to take care of Kotomi that day. Yet the babysitter called in sick on that day of all the time, and the babysitting agency could not get hold of Kotomi's parents since they are obviously gone for good.

Poor Kotomi had to endure the loneliness for years as a result of the combination of these unfortunate events.

- They leave food for a party, but they take the gift with them? Okay, so they bought the gift on the way to the airport, but why so last minute?

They were in a hurry to get to the airport already, as the seminar was called in such short notice. The food they have prepared long beforehand.

- Man wears a trench coat over a suit when its hot enough that other people are wearing shorts?

Perhaps he's just weird, being locked up in a lab all the time. :heh:

Sinestra

2008-01-23, 12:26

I thought this a great episode but it wasn't such a tear jerker like the last ark. I'm really surprised to see how much a emotional guy Tomoya is.

I love Tomoya as a character despite his cynical and sarcastic attitude towards most things. Deep down inside he is just a nice guy who really spends much of his time helping out the various people he comes in contact with. After all he doesnt really have much else to do. I think Kotomi will finally be able to move on quite nicely after this episode. Becoming more outgoing and making more and more friends, not mention how adorable she is.

ReizoSan

2008-01-23, 13:14

I love Tomoya as a character despite his cynical and sarcastic attitude towards most things. Deep down inside he is just a nice guy who really spends much of his time helping out the various people he comes in contact with. After all he doesnt really have much else to do. I think Kotomi will finally be able to move on quite nicely after this episode. Becoming more outgoing and making more and more friends, not mention how adorable she is.

I think hes a great male character too, as you can see by his kindness to Nagisa and others he has a great side to him then he can be angry when he wants and moody but then after the way his father has been to him with the beatings he is trying to act like his dad and be tough and being a rebel, but i think he was emotional because he thinks it could be his fault for forgetting her which most abused kids always blame them selfs.

Rookie103

2008-01-23, 13:17

Sinestra

2008-01-23, 14:13

He is the best male lead I've seen in the animes I've watched.

Best male lead hum??? thats a tough one i pretty partial to Kyon too.

Rookie103

2008-01-23, 15:17

Best male lead hum??? thats a tough one i pretty partial to Kyon too.

Well, I haven't watched many animes, I've just got into anime.

mandarb916

2008-01-23, 15:49

Best male lead hum??? thats a tough one i pretty partial to Kyon too.

Roger Smith - The Big O
Gene Starwind - Outlaw Star

^----far surpasses Tomoya imho :P (completely different genre admittedly)

DJ_RockmanX

2008-01-23, 16:23

Go to the SaiGAR thread if you really wanna talk about kickass males.

Not much left for me to say really.

Reckoner

2008-01-23, 16:52

Unfortunately for your theory, the text from the original VN explicitly stated that the suitcase was made of duralumin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duralumin), a tough material mostly found on planes. And if the plane crashed into the sea, which it did, chances of the suitcase surviving is higher than if it crashed into solid ground.

Well if we want to get technical...

Duralumin is almost all aluminum, and aluminum is more dense than water so its buoyancy isn't strong enough to keep itself afloat. So actually crashing in the sea is probably worst than on the ground. The ground crash, depending on its severity, would determine the condition of objects inside the plane. So if it only got shredded up and didn't explode at impact, ok then it could've lived. Although, I think they crashed oversea like you said.

I'm no physicist so I can't bring up any fancy equations to show this but anyway...

If you want to know why a bloat floats even though its steel, it is because of its shape and the large gap of air in it, which apparently makes it less dense? A suitcase or brief case is not shaped like a boat though.

Jimmy C

2008-01-23, 23:47

No, but it's still a little bit of metal enclosing a large air pocket. As long as it didn't get completely flooded, it can maintain buoyancy.

Reckoner

2008-01-24, 01:21

No, but it's still a little bit of metal enclosing a large air pocket. As long as it didn't get completely flooded, it can maintain buoyancy.

The air is displaced by the teddy bear inside, so it doesn't quite have that much air inside. And I think the plane would sink to the bottom and take the suitcase with it anyhow...

Mirificus

2008-01-24, 07:47

The air is displaced by the teddy bear inside, so it doesn't quite have that much air inside.
You were on the right track earlier with average density. The density of a teddy bear is usually relatively low to the density of water. The average density of the case should still be sufficient for it to float.

And I think the plane would sink to the bottom and take the suitcase with it anyhow...
Airplane hulls aren't all that strong. If the plane was able to ditch with the fuselage intact, then there should have been a fair number of survivors.

Joachim

2008-01-24, 08:07

there was the realistic debate on gundam 00 forum and now here... man just enjoy the episode and just don't mind the unrealistic thing, and in clannad case, oh come on its just the fact that the case escape the airplane crash and it came down floating in some beach and you comment it all the way, fine if its suddenly kotomi parent safely return from airplane crash then flame all the way man, but suit case? seriously...

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-24, 09:36

I'm amazed people are still debating the "realism" of the series, for god's sake, we all accept that the concept of the case going half-way around the world is far-fetched for the sake of artistic license, and IMHO, not a bad one at that. So just suspend your disbelief for this one and get on with it already, episode 15 is up in a few hours' time.

Sheba

2008-01-24, 10:39

Roger Smith - The Big O
Gene Starwind - Outlaw Star

^----far surpasses Tomoya imho :P (completely different genre admittedly)

Go find a male lead in the VN-to-anime genre then. Because we all know that comparing a high-schooler with someone like a military, mech pilot, action shounen hero is the right thing to do.
If I go by your modus operandi, I would have brought William Wallace, Che Gevara or Jack Churchill.
:rolleyes:

Reckoner

2008-01-24, 11:15

All right, the realism is getting a little stretched here so I'll stop. I've detracted from my dislike of the episode into such a trivial matter :p.

mikesince83

2008-01-24, 14:27

So am I correct here in assuming that the Kotomi arc is through for now? Who's up next, or will we get a little more character development with Nagisa?

siber222000

2008-01-24, 21:21

it was amazing episode, i cried... it was damn worth it

So am I correct here in assuming that the Kotomi arc is through for now? Who's up next, or will we get a little more character development with Nagisa?

i dunno, but i have a feeling that nagisa path might become similar to shuffle's kaede.. hopefully not.

IRJustman

2008-01-25, 00:45

Airplane hulls aren't all that strong. If the plane was able to ditch with the fuselage intact, then there should have been a fair number of survivors.

This may be a little lengthy and technical, so please bear with me.

Actually, the fuselage is a bit more sturdy than you realize.

The cabin has to withstand being pressurized from the inside at one atmosphere, and the aircraft usually flies at altitudes of anywhere between 28000 to 35000 or so feet (perhaps higher), touching down at altitudes anywhere from a few hundred feet below to anywhere between at and a couple thousand feet above sea level . For more on this, read up on the de Havilland Comet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet), the first-ever jet airliner. The earliest designs were withdrawn from service due to metal fatigue in the hull due to repeated pressurization "cycling" caused by normal use (though the square windows were also cited as a problem; newer designs replaced them with the now-familiar rounded-corner windows to further reduce the risk of fatigue). This fatigue caused several complete losses of aircraft.

If there was an explosion within the fuselage, the airframe would have been instantly compromised, especially when it's at its normal cruising altitude. To give you an idea of what a catastrophic hull breach of an airframe at full flight pressure is like, check out this YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arRJi3wHRnA&feature=related) where they do tests with old Boeing 747 and Lockheed L1011 TriStar airframes, showing how explosive decompression can destroy an airframe from the inside. However, there have been some in-flight hull-loss incidents in modern aircraft where in some instances, the loss of life was actually quite low. In one case, a Boeing 737 had part of its hull completely lost from just behind the cockpit to the first few rows or so resulting in the loss of one life. The flight landed safely.

However, for what's happening here, I suspect a complete loss of control of the aircraft, e.g. loss of hydraulics and/or avionics, which would cause the aircraft to dive headlong into the ocean. Or it may have had a Challenger happen to it where it lost enough control so it flew completely outside the envelope, with aerodynamic stresses tearing the airframe apart.

--Ian.