Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Pellissier

2008-01-17, 05:43

Welcome to the discussion thread for Shakugan no Shana II, Episode 14.

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serenade_beta

2008-01-17, 14:07

I don't really expect anything amazing. Some cool down, experimenting on Yuuji, enjoying the festival.

I hope at least one character will point out how much Pheles stand out...

Omniscient

2008-01-17, 14:19

I don't really expect anything amazing. Some cool down, experimenting on Yuuji, enjoying the festival.

I hope at least one character will point out how much Pheles stand out...
That's kind of how the episode turned out...until the last two minutes...

nines

2008-01-17, 14:24

whered u guys see the epi at cant find it x.x

Xellos-_^

2008-01-17, 14:30

I don't really expect anything amazing. Some cool down, experimenting on Yuuji, enjoying the festival.

I hope at least one character will point out how much Pheles stand out...

There is Yuuji filling Pheles with his existance :p

Pheles: More Yuuji, More. Please fill me up :heh:

Malzar

2008-01-17, 14:52

omg its released !!! :O I must see this episode o_O

(Can't find it though) =(

piku

2008-01-17, 14:54

only satisfactory on the scene of pheles and johann (so great that make me cheer in front of the screen), as well as the scene kazumi change her clothes. the story is being too fast and not deliver main point to viewers very well... many detail and splendid description from novel are lost. read back novel 12 is recommend for interest.

i must say the drawing style is so unstable that i laugh for nearly whole episode, for pheles's face... how come a beauty in the novel become like that in animation... beg for improvement in the rest episodes.

shana x kazumi, yuri well done! pheles is YANDERE...

fumina seems reveal her identity as guessed...

Susanou

2008-01-17, 15:08

Screenshots are up at the RandomC blog: Click (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2008/01/17/shakugan-no-shana-ii-14/)

Needlesss to say, the last 2 minutes pretty much are the center of this episode. Some background stuff, then some action again. Anyways, speculating time:

Click for Image (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Shakugan%20no%20Shana/Shakugan%20no%20Shana%20II%20-%2014%20-%20Large%2030.jpg)

Is it me or does this hand (also seen in the OP) bear a certain resemblance to that Knight guy covered in silver flames at the beginning of episode 8? If so, how come it appeared out of Yuuji...most likely it's due to that spell insignia Sabrac interested but other then that we can only guess....

Malzar

2008-01-17, 15:09

well for me pheles looks good she looks much like a nimf that make it weard I gues :P

DX HBK

2008-01-17, 16:33

I guess the moral of the story is to don't travel memory lane, especially with Pheles.

Well, looks like the action is about to heat up but will there be anymore original content?

teachopvutru

2008-01-17, 17:01

whered u guys see the epi at cant find it x.x

omg its released !!! :O I must see this episode o_O

(Can't find it though) =(

The people who have watched it most likely watch the RAW and understand Japanese. Just in case you don't know, the RAW doesn't have subtitle.

only satisfactory on the scene of pheles and johann (so great that make me cheer in front of the screen), as well as the scene kazumi change her clothes. the story is being too fast and not deliver main point to viewers very well... many detail and splendid description from novel are lost. read back novel 12 is recommend for interest.

Well, that would probably be 3-5 years later for Viz to release that volume. :p Of course, assuming they will still continue it...

i must say the drawing style is so unstable that i laugh for nearly whole episode, for pheles's face... how come a beauty in the novel become like that in animation... beg for improvement in the rest episodes.

Haven't seen this episode yet (waiting for sub to come out) but I agree that the drawing style changed virtually every episode. I liked the first few episodes' drawing so let's hope they stick with those.

X10A_Freedom

2008-01-17, 18:11

Decent bridge episode, at least explains why the battle in ep13 was mediocre.

Ep15 in my opinion will be the make or break for this series which has been rather mediocre so far.

Deathkillz

2008-01-17, 18:56

YAY more action!...mainly in the preview! :D
Aww...I didn't expect pheles to turn sour at the last minute...then WTFBBQHAXX silver punched a hole in the stomach :twitch:
I still think pheles is cool...hopefully she won't die ;_;

DX HBK

2008-01-17, 19:11

serenade_beta

2008-01-17, 20:15

Overall, until the very end, it was pretty peaceful and dully enjoyable...

-That flying scene with Shana and Kazumi seemed to have the opposite effect on me. I assume it was supposed to be touching or something, but I didn't need them to reconfirm "I won't lose" for the nth time. The flying was also...

-Tired Pheles=100x different attitude from the regenerated Pheles...

-Ah-ah, in the end, nobody bothered to even mention Pheles's strange clothes. We get "Kirei~~", but no "hen na kakko"...

-Tanaka is so much closer to Matake now. :)
All it took was for him to witness her getting killed several times over...

-Ike is STILL being dragged around by her...

-Now I see where the gadgets and gears in the OP come from...

-Love make people psychotic.

-BAM! Through the stomach! Ouch...

*bracelets shine*
-NOO!~~ Don't tell me it's really going to happen! *goes into denial*

Next time - Awakening; IcanthearIcanthearIcan'thear, itsnottrue, *sob*

Neki Ecko

2008-01-17, 20:36

Hey, she doesn't know much about self-restraint. Still, the expression on her face in being impaled by the Silver's arm seem a bit out of place. Almost a bit comical.

Well, let's see what Konoe... or Hecate does. Another week of waiting.

Konoe or Hecate is going to have something planned and it will be showing up in the next episode, and also

Now that Silver has showing up, do yall think that it wont be long until then you know who show up?

ThoHell

2008-01-17, 21:59

Hm...I was really looking forward to Shana season 2 for awhile, but so far it has been rather disappointing. Boring, too many pauses and overkill reaction and screaming from Yuugi....leading to *yawn*. I think the only good part of this episode was the bloody end with the 2 twist and then a cliff hanger. Preview for the next episode looks good, hope it is!

Reckoner

2008-01-17, 22:44

teachopvutru

2008-01-17, 22:52

Not saying that these people's opinions are invalid or anything, but it seems to me that when ever a show gets a follow up, people usually cry that it isn't as good as the first season. Is this some kind of universal trend?

Personally there have only been about 3 bad episodes this season and like 4 mediocre, the rest have been good.

Since marathoned the first season in one night, the experience of watching it in comparison to this one would obviously be different. For that reason, I can't exactly compare them hand-in-hand. However, I would say that in my opinion, not to generalize but the people who are complaining are overexaggerated... this season isn't as bad as people make it out to be whether or not it's not as good as the first season... The disappointment they get is probably withdrawed from anticipation for this season, or at least, that's what their posts seem to say... or at least, ThoHell's does.

SoldierOfDarkness

2008-01-17, 23:32

There is Yuuji filling Pheles with his existance :p

Pheles: More Yuuji, More. Please fill me up :heh:

It's clear she'd rather be filled up by Johan.

I suppose its understandable to a certain extent that she wants him back so badly, she's been going what? Centuries without refueling?

cnnydz

2008-01-17, 23:55

SoldierOfDarkness

2008-01-18, 00:23

Huh, I wonder why I thought it was longer.

Proto

2008-01-18, 01:15

Quite a good episode in my opinion. It's good that they try to explore the human side of the people of Guze. I don't know why so many people get so upset whenever there is not a fuzetsu set up, but personally this was quite an enjoyable episode for me. And yes, I have also enjoyed the rest of the season, including the so called slow episodes. So don't you people go around saying everyone has hated the 2nd season. I AM liking it. Thanks :)

Xellos-_^

2008-01-18, 01:24

lol i just knew this episode was going to end with pheles impaled. hecate and fecor next then

johan was sealed about half a year before this. so in fact she didn't consume POE for just over six months, i think

Johan was seal far more then few months.

That suite of armor guy form last season had the reigi maigo and he was around for a centuries.

ThoHell

2008-01-18, 03:41

Since marathoned the first season in one night, the experience of watching it in comparison to this one would obviously be different. For that reason, I can't exactly compare them hand-in-hand. However, I would say that in my opinion, not to generalize but the people who are complaining are overexaggerated... this season isn't as bad as people make it out to be whether or not it's not as good as the first season... The disappointment they get is probably withdrawed from anticipation for this season, or at least, that's what their posts seem to say... or at least, ThoHell's does.

Yeah, I think you hit it right on the spot. I'm not a season 2 hater; there are lots of good season 2 series. But the pacing of this one is a little frustrating. Ok, it was a refreshing episode in a sense, but haven't most (not all, there will always be exceptions), been like this. Something intense and dramatic for about 1-5 minutes total throughout most of the episodes then the rest is talk. The first episode I think of this season was pretty damn good and got my hopes up too high I guess for the following episodes. There is plenty of cliff hangers or shockers at the end of the episodes, but nothing to keep you on edge of your chair staring intensely at the screen or suspense through out the episode. But, anyways I'm hoping ep 15 will be good since the preview seemed awing.

cnnydz

2008-01-18, 06:53

Johan was seal far more then few months.

That suite of armor guy form last season had the reigi maigo and he was around for a centuries.

armor guy? who? silver?
he never had the reiji maigo

Kinny Riddle

2008-01-18, 10:24

First up: PHWOAR! Yoshida in nothing but her bra! (grabs plenty of tissue to reduce blood lost) :love: :love:

This original Hecate/Fumina thing is beginning to get interesting now, though it was never in the novels.

Johan was seal far more then few months.

That suite of armor guy form last season had the reigi maigo and he was around for a centuries.

Centuries? Did you not hear the characters speculating that Yuji's silvery flame had something to do with this Sabrac guy stuffing a mysterious spell inside the Reiji Maigo just after Pheles had stuffed Johann in there?

So at best, this Silver guy only begun to reside inside the Reiji Maigo from that point earliest. And according to the novels, Pheles lost the Reiji Maigo very recently, just after Yuji became a Mystes, which was some time before he met Shana.

Shiro (Shana's skeletal mentor in season 1) took the form of a skeleton, as that uses up less PoE than his human form, after promising Shana's predecessor Mathilda, whom he's madly in love with, that he'll never consume humans.

Pheles probably did something similar after parting with Johann, taking the form of a flowing wind, as this consumes less PoE than her solid physical form, until now.

serenade_beta

2008-01-18, 14:23

Yuuji wakes up from bed and realizes everything was a dream. He climbs out of bed and eats breakfast. He greets his childhood friend, Shana, on his way to school. But when he gets to school, the teacher was not Wilhelimina, but a new teacher named Senben.
:joke:
I wish though...

Anyways...

Awakening

Pheles uses Margery, Shana, and even her sworn friend Wilhelmina through a puppet with nothing but conciousness, controlled by the Unrestricted Method "Revolving Ring of Wind"
Without putting any distance between him and her, to Yuuji... to her beloved Johann, she reaches out her hands.
But the arm that appeared out of Yuuji's chest was covered in silver flames.
The silver gradually becomes liquid and creeps out of Yuuji... not just the arm... but a head, a neck, and shoulders.
The ones watching this scene was not just Shana and co.
Far away, in a room in an old castle, a group of eyes was chillingly and meaningfully looking as well.
And then, a new existence appears to interrupt.
The silhouette that walks to the ultramarine, shining Unrestricted Method, is...

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/15_01.jpg <--Black hole...

What color was Hecate's flame again...?

And the set of eyes must be Bel Peol...

DX HBK

2008-01-18, 14:33

Hecate's flame is a sea color blue or so. It showed that in season one.

Think they made last minute changes due to the drop in image quality?

X10A_Freedom

2008-01-18, 15:20

Not saying that these people's opinions are invalid or anything, but it seems to me that when ever a show gets a follow up, people usually cry that it isn't as good as the first season. Is this some kind of universal trend?

Personally there have only been about 3 bad episodes this season and like 4 mediocre, the rest have been good.
Well, season 1 was something like 60% battle and 40% slice in my head which was a good balance. Season 2 is more like 20% battle and 80% slice. The 40% slice in season 1 was inserted worked well to give the viewers a break from the heavy atmosphere. However, making Slice completely dominate a series with superpowers doesn't exactly work well in my opinion (There's ARIA and Minami-ke for quality slice).

The way some things are really being dragged in Season 2 (well, we got double the amount of slice than the novels due to Fumina) reminds me of the painful Las Vegas arc in the TV show Heroes.

Despite my complaints, I'm still following as there is still a chance for a turnaround.

lua thien

2008-01-18, 15:48

There is Yuuji filling Pheles with his existance :p

Pheles: More Yuuji, More. Please fill me up :heh:

There are more ways to transfer power of existence than that. But I guess the producers have a way of playing things around.

I wonder what the Silver's music is going to be like. It seems dull to hear the choir type music all over again when Pheles showed up.

Think Pheles made a big mistake in her second attempt?

DX HBK

2008-01-18, 20:18

I REALLY wish that there was some anachronistic hip-hop music in any further slice-of-life scenarios.

Anymore characters that have yet to be introduced?

mist2123

2008-01-18, 21:35

That last scene is "JUST AS PLANNED :heh:"

Reckoner

2008-01-19, 01:22

Well, season 1 was something like 60% battle and 40% slice in my head which was a good balance. Season 2 is more like 20% battle and 80% slice. The 40% slice in season 1 was inserted worked well to give the viewers a break from the heavy atmosphere. However, making Slice completely dominate a series with superpowers doesn't exactly work well in my opinion (There's ARIA and Minami-ke for quality slice).

The way some things are really being dragged in Season 2 (well, we got double the amount of slice than the novels due to Fumina) reminds me of the painful Las Vegas arc in the TV show Heroes.

Despite my complaints, I'm still following as there is still a chance for a turnaround.

I was just stating something in general about all anime. Yes, there has been an excessive amount of slice of life. The fact that we had some bad Konoe ones in the beginning is what is causing these slice of life episodes to look bad, but since I completely ignored those episodes I can enjoy these.

Ah, there shall be a huge turnaround in the future if it follows the novels I'm pretty sure.

arkxkra

2008-01-19, 09:01

this episode was not bad, i thought will having a relax episode until the end, but before the end to come with a such nice scene. nice cliff hanger.
the last part Pheles hit through the stomach, i was omg.
looking forward to next episode.

DX HBK

2008-01-19, 09:24

The real Pheles finally appears towards the end. So..they've been in company with a fake one all this time.

Tormenk

2008-01-19, 10:57

Well to disagree, Pheles past with Johan was a highlight for me as well. It was really nicely done and made me go "wow". Though the other parts are weaker in comparison and Yuji's still isn't showing much after 14 eps.

Dual twists are tasty. And more Pheles BGM is always good in my books. :D Though I just keep hearing Erio and Yoko in Pheles' true form. :rolleyes::heh:

alvinkhorfire

2008-01-19, 21:19

many detail and splendid description from novel are lost. read back novel 12 is recommend for interest.

Then, can we list the details at here as long as it is not spoiler? Why did earlier on Pheles push Yuji to fall down after she received power of existence from him? And, it seems that both Jiiya and Fumina remain motionless in the fuzetsu. I wonder how they set theirselves free. By removing the bracelet?

serenade_beta

2008-01-19, 21:41

And, it seems that both Jiiya and Fumina remain motionless in the fuzetsu. I wonder how they set theirselves free. By removing the bracelet?

The bracelets could be set up to transform them to their true forms in certain conditions (Silver) and thus allow them to move.

DX HBK

2008-01-19, 21:58

The bracelets could be set up to transform them to their true forms in certain conditions (Silver) and thus allow them to move.

Jiiya and Fumina are sure good sleeper cell elements.

lua thien

2008-01-19, 22:15

Jiiya and Fumina are sure good sleeper cell elements.

Yeah, you got that right. I'd be surprised if Hecate suddenly acts like the blind musician Sara from Samurai Champloo in regards to dealing with Yuji and Shana.

alvinkhorfire

2008-01-20, 07:08

The silver gradually becomes liquid and creeps out of Yuuji... not just the arm... but a head, a neck, and shoulders.

Marjorie and them were assuming that Yuji serves as a clue to where the Silver is. Now that it appears that Silver will emerge from Yuji, I don't know how Marjorie would respond to that. That whatever she seeks is closer than she had ever imagined?

KaneDragon

2008-01-21, 15:30

But the arm that appeared out of Yuuji's chest was covered in silver flames.
The silver gradually becomes liquid and creeps out of Yuuji... not just the arm... but a head, a neck, and shoulders.
Haha, I called it. :D
Or maybe Silver got sucked into the Raging Mango? That would be... anticlimactic. Or maybe Silver is like a Transformer, and is the Raging Mango's true identity! Yuji having a robot transformation would be pretty... interesting... :uhoh::p

cnnydz

2008-01-21, 15:58

Or maybe Silver got sucked into the Raging Mango? That would be... anticlimactic. Or maybe Silver is like a Transformer, and is the Raging Mango's true identity! Yuji having a robot transformation would be pretty... interesting... :uhoh::p

not really true.

KaneDragon

2008-01-21, 16:13

not really true.
Oh you. Don't ruin my fun. :rolleyes:

taelrak

2008-01-21, 17:05

Eh 2nd half of the episode was nice, showing Pheles's past and of course the ending was fairly well done (I was waiting for that expression of utter stupidity and disbelief on Shana and Yoshida's faces for the entire episode :p).

Most of the first half was just another waste though - the whole "naive/stupid girl(Yoshida)/guy(Sakai) who wants to hang onto some human remnants of self-identity and somehow create world peace through love" cliche has been already been overdone in this entire series more than 20 times - not really sure why they made us watch through yet another one of them (esp. since we just had to put up with it when Wilhelmina did the the exact same thing to Margery).

Not even going to talk about the other wasted screentime where Shana and Yoshida starts telling each other they're not going to lose...yet again...maybe they just have really bad memories and couldn't recall the other 50 times they said that before?

I'm just hoping that they don't waste yet another entire episode on Sakai being his normal indecisive/misguided/stupid self of indulging in self-examination when he goes through his identity crisis after being possessed....but I don't think I'll have my hopes up

On another note, I hope they skip over the rest of Pheles's background as well. The guy's dead - if they want to cover that entire volume, they can always animate a side story or OVA for it. Move along anime, move along!

cnnydz

2008-01-21, 17:36

On another note, I hope they skip over the rest of Pheles's background as well. The guy's dead - if they want to cover that entire volume, they can always animate a side story or OVA for it. Move along anime, move along!

johan is not dead, he is alive and was sealed inside reiji maigo

Terrestrial Dream

2008-01-21, 18:18

Ok I liked this episode a lot especially at the end, where Pheles shows her true side and how she tricked them all. Great epsiode and finally Bal Masqué are on the move :D. Also I am going to make a crazy guess, so what would be a chance that Johan is Silver? Yes, it's quite stupid and crazy but who knows :p (beside the people who reads the novel)
Also only 18people voted?

edgewalker00

2008-01-21, 18:25

good thing cnnydz is here since he knows SnS well,

i have a few questions as well as theories on wth happened on this ep.

1) is the fecor guy that cnnydz talked about on the novels the butler of konoe/hecate?
2) according to the novel discussions, fecor and hecate appeared first before pheles in the anime version, it was planned beautifully in a sense that pheles took advantage of the confusion while sabrac and hecate took advantage of pheles' attempt.
3) from this point on, there would be a lot of fighting right?
4) would sairei no hebi come out of yuuji or would it only be his emissary, silver?
5) when will the shakugan no shanatan II be released? (offtopic
6) could it be that the reason why Sairei no Hebi was named as such is because he appeared at the end of the misaki festival, or could it be because pheles betrayed them all during the event? after all, festivals would always come to an end and the sairei no hebi is the harbinger of that end... (guess im so paranoid ~_~)
7) could it be coincidence that johan (who likes festivals and hates how it ends) is locked up along with SnH?

Kristen

2008-01-21, 18:30

This episode was strange. Even though it wasn't intensive or anything like the S1 episodes, I still enjoyed it. Maybe it was because Kazumi came closer to winning! :)

I'm giving this a 7. Next week, from the preview, looks to be amazing. I'm just a little nervous that too much is slated for one episode, since it'll be Pheles and Kanoe arcs. But I'm glad they're finally ending the stupid Kanoe stuff.

Now, for the big thing. I am hoping with desperation that they change the OP either next week or the week after. Because I think Pheles's arc may end next week. If they don't change it, then that means there will not be a single other enemy that hasn't appeared yet this season. And I honestly do not want to go through something like episodes 3-7 again. :(

Anyways, here's to any and all Kazumi-ists out there! :)

They also had a plot hole. Yuji has many times more Power of Existance than he did in S1, and really did not use anywhere close to all of it in creating the Fuzetsu. Why does he need to wait to midnight to give it away?

edgewalker00

2008-01-21, 18:40

They also had a plot hole. Yuji has many times more Power of Existance than he did in S1, and really did not use anywhere close to all of it in creating the Fuzetsu. Why does he need to wait to midnight to give it away?

well nobody knows what might happen in a day. i think that the reason they use it only on midnight is because they're too cautious. if yuuji used all his PoE hourse before midnight and a strong enemy comes, yuuji would be left with little to no PoE to handle the repairs.

at least at midnight, it is sure that we doesnt have to hold the battle long before recharging his PoE...

that's my opinion though

Terrestrial Dream

2008-01-21, 18:42

minhtam1638

2008-01-21, 19:18

Okay, speaking of Sterling01's spoiler, anybody worried that J.C. Staff might be rushing this one like they did with Zero no Tsukaima II? It just seems that somehow, the pace seems much too quick.

taelrak

2008-01-21, 19:21

Okay, speaking of Sterling01's spoiler, anybody worried that J.C. Staff might be rushing this one like they did with Zero no Tsukaima II? It just seems that somehow, the pace seems much too quick.

Well they only spent 12 episodes on completely irrelevant and pointless material, so I guess they're running out of episodes now? Granted the novels had a lot of pointless material too, but still..

They'll probably have to come up with some original ending anyway, unless they want to wait another year or so for season 3...(assuming they wait for the novels to come out with new material, as opposed to just making stuff up).

serenade_beta

2008-01-21, 20:01

We should keep novel spoilers in the novel thread.

HashiriyaR32

2008-01-21, 20:41

This image practically screams "JUST AS PLANNED!"

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8391/snapshot20080121202641is7.jpg

And I knew all along that Fumina and her "butler" were fakes.

taelrak

2008-01-21, 21:03

Klashikari

2008-01-21, 21:04

This episode was more or less average as the pace of events was quite fast, but the episode pace itself wasn't exactly balanced (the start was really draggy, to say the least).
I wonder if they are doing another budget episode. It isn't as silly as the infamous "wow teacher" erratic character design, but the traits were overly simple and disproportionate, with very dull colors and such.

Wilhelmina's lack of cautiousness was a bit strange: she knew that pheles had such avatar spell, but she didn't expect that until it shows up... Well, obviously it might be not obvious to expect that, but seriously, some doubt would be preferable.
Now, the real cringe session was the complete lack of reaction from the crew when the avatar exploded, and pheles enters in the stage...
I mean, why are they waiting like... 45 seconds (20:51 => 21:36) like bunch of sitting ducks (especially that yuuji was encased in that wind spell as soon as pheles arrived)? They didn't even try to do anything when Pheles went happily extracting on Yuuji?
I would expect Shana as hotblooded/hast to jump on the gun, but no, nothing...

The last scene was quite nice to deal a shocker and reversed situation, but seriously, the whole episode wasn't exactly flowing well.

Now, for a different matter, I will quote Serenade beta:
We should keep novel spoilers in the novel thread.
Except one slight correction: we must keep novel spoilers in the novel thread.
As stated in the weekly episode thread guidelines, future events spoilers are prohibited on such type of thread, even in spoiler tags. Please keep them in the spoiler thread and the novel thread. Any other spoiler of this kind in an episode thread will be deleted.

OverFunk

2008-01-21, 21:05

Oh wow. Can't say I saw that coming. I mean, the Pheles thing was in the realm of expectations, but after that, wow.

I was dissapointed on how Pheles had seemed to give up so easily on 13, then she more than made up for it on this episode.

Southern Cross

2008-01-21, 21:12

This image practically screams "JUST AS PLANNED!"

Hah, yeah, I caught the same impression when she made that smile.

Man, quite a few interesting images over this episode. There was one at the end that screamed "OWNED!"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v340/F35JointStrikeFighterBETA/phelespwn.jpg
I mean that expression in her face is priceless, especially considering that "just as planned" smile she gave out earlier. I'm sure she didn't see that coming. :heh:

This episode built up quite nicely - a little slow at the start, but the ending picked up quite a lot. I'll give it a fair 8, and I expect the next one to top it big time!

DX HBK

2008-01-21, 21:13

Pheles is awesome (compared to the rest of the cast so far that is)...

She manages to sum up the entirety of everyone in one sentence upon her arrival:

Wilhelmina: an old friend (which is of course her role to everyone else in every single situation in the past and now)

Margery: a spellcaster who doesn't care to see anything other than her objective

Shana: a hunter who indulges in her friendship

Yoshida: a single-minded, foolish girl

If the writers could have such awesome brevity, why didn't the apply it for an entire season+12 episodes? :p

Too bad her vision is so narrow...she'd be awesome if she had more perspective.

Well, Pheles's actions might very well give an inkling to what her true character is. Though what she'll do next is... well... I'd rather not say.

This episode was more or less average as the pace of events was quite fast, but the episode pace itself wasn't exactly balanced (the start was really draggy, to say the least).
I wonder if they are doing another budget episode. It isn't as silly as the infamous "wow teacher" erratic character design, but the traits were overly simple and disproportionate, with very dull colors and such.

Wilhelmina's lack of cautiousness was a bit strange: she knew that pheles had such avatar spell, but she didn't expect that until it shows up... Well, obviously it might be not obvious to expect that, but seriously, some doubt would be preferable.
Now, the real cringe session was the complete lack of reaction from the crew when the avatar exploded, and pheles enters in the stage...
I mean, why are they waiting like... 45 seconds (20:51 => 21:36) like bunch of sitting ducks? They didn't even try to do anything when Pheles went psycho extracting on Yuuji?
I would expect Shana as hotblooded/hast to jump on the gun, but no, nothing...

The last scene was quite nice to deal a shocker and reversed situation, but seriously, the whole episode wasn't exactly flowing well.

I think they faltered from their original primary objectives due to distractive new ideas and redid things at the last minute, hence the drop in animation quality. Perhaps they've lost balance on how to add some stuff from the light novels in tandem to making original content.

Budget episode?

Oh wow. Can't say I saw that coming. I mean, the Pheles thing was in the realm of expectations, but after that, wow.

I was dissapointed on how Pheles had seemed to give up so easily on 13, then she more than made up for it on this episode.

Deception seem to be the core of Pheles's game plan. Besides, it was her avatar that appeared first.

KaneDragon

2008-01-21, 21:13

Pheles: Screw being good, it's time I reveal MY TRUE POWER! BWAHAHAHA--(gets Falcon Punch'ed by HiHoSilver)

taelrak

2008-01-21, 21:21

Pheles: Screw being good, it's time I reveal MY TRUE POWER! BWAHAHAHA--(gets Falcon Punch'ed by HiHoSilver)

Yea, that's what I mean about being too narrow-sighted. She focuses on Johan and ignores things that matters.

She should have killed off everyone there while they relaxed their guard, and then thoroughly examined Yuuji and dissected the Reiji Maigo from him from relative safety, to find out exactly what was in it and then figure out a way to extract Johan while killing off Sakai and whatever else is mutating the Mystes.

Instead, she goes in and instead of taking advantage of what she calls the "perfect" opportunity, lets down her own guard (knowing that there's something strange about the Reiji Maigo), and gets punched, losing whatever advantage she had, and now being vulnerable to an outside attack from third parties that she wasn't planning on.

That's called a perfect opportunity 'wasted'.

Oh well, her 1-line descriptions of everyone else were still awesome :D

KaneDragon

2008-01-21, 21:25

She should have killed off everyone there while they relaxed their guard, and then thoroughly examined Yuuji and dissected the Reiji Maigo from him from relative safety, to find out exactly what was in it and then figure out a way to extract Johan while killing off Sakai and whatever else is mutating the Mystes.
She's not that ebil. ;_;

taelrak

2008-01-21, 21:45

She's not that ebil. ;_;

Actually, originally, if she thought that was what it would take for her to be reunited with Johan willingly forever, she'd probably do it without a second's hesitation. The only reason she didn't was because she didn't think she needed to, and because she didn't think she needed to guard herself against Johan's container (the Reiji Maigo and what's in it, not the kid).

She had the will and the willingness to make the appropriate sacrifices to see her goals through - she just didn't have the presence of mind to recognize the dangers of it even after she had been warned by multiple clues - hence her blindness.

That's why I find her the most tragic of all the characters really - she's the only one with any decent willpower and the recognition that sacrifices are needed to achieve a greater goal, but her fatal flaws make it so she can't fulfill her potential. Whereas all the other characters lack that willpower (except maybe Wilhelmina, but she's a bit too wishy-washy too).

That's also part of the reason why I liked the original Shana (before she got converted by Yuuji), Corpse Retriever, and the members of the Bell - they actually have what it takes to get things done.

Of course I'm making a value judgment on which sort of goals are worth attaining here - for example, you could possibly argue that Yoshida also has some goal of some sort and that she has a lot of willpower in achieving it - but she's rather small in the grand scheme of things so I don't think she matters or is relevant in anything except as a physical manifestation of Sakai's weakness.

holyman282

2008-01-21, 22:52

This ep was obviously not as good as the previous ep but still pretty good... I was just about to hate this ep for the cheesy lines spouted by Pheles at the end only to be shocked that she was actually an avatar! That was a big twist, then pheles gets stabbed by a huge silver arm out of Yuji's stomach! Those two scenes made me forget about the cheesy scenes in this ep! Finally Konoe makes a debut after several ep of absence and next ep looks to be very interesting.

KaneDragon

2008-01-21, 23:11

Or perhaps I should clarify, I don't want her to be ebil. ;_;

Green hair~ =3

HashiriyaR32

2008-01-21, 23:16

If this were Death Note, Pheles would be Light, and Yuji would be Near.

taelrak

2008-01-21, 23:24

Or perhaps I should clarify, I don't want her to be ebil. ;_;

Green hair~ =3

I like her just as she is! Everyone needs a little evil now and then :D

If this were Death Note, Pheles would be Light, and Yuji would be Near.

Hrm, I guess Pheles could be semi-Light-ish, although I don't think she's smart enough for that. She's also not arrogant - just obsessive (so that she uses everyone around her and ignores them, not because she thinks they're inferior in some sense to her, but just that she doesn't consider them as important to her as her goal).

Why is Yuji Near though? He doesn't have the intelligence, or calculating insight into human behavior, or the willpower to achieve his goals (or even have a goal to begin with for that matter) that Near does. Near is also not very selfish, although he's certainly not self-less, whereas Yuuji is selfish AND self-less (in the sense that he doesn't have a good valuation of self).

Yuuji reminds me more of Matsuda. Average, not very bright or strong (his strength is from something independent of himself, i.e. borrowed strength), not visionary, and not really particularly noteworthy - except for what's inside him. He's always in the right place at the right time, but none of it is by his own choice, and he's always being moved instead of being the mover, reacting instead of acting. He holds strongly onto his ideals, not because he believes in them for what they are, but because he clings to them like a life-raft so that he doesn't lose track of what he's fighting for (or even living for). As a result, he turns out hopelessly naive and optimistic in his sense of justice and morality without the power to back it up, but he doesn't even really understand what it is that he feels is right and why that is right, and blinds himself to any other possible truths. That seems to fit the stereotype of Matsuda almost perfectly.

KaneDragon

2008-01-21, 23:27

If this were Death Note, Pheles would be Light, and Yuji would be Near.
Are you reading too much into that one "Just as planned" smirk by Pheles? Comparisons to DN characters seem somewhat insulting to the SnS characters, Light's intelligence notwithstanding. ;)

FlareKnight

2008-01-21, 23:27

taelrak

2008-01-21, 23:33

I agree that it felt odd how everyone just stood there and watched Pheles move to deal with Yuji. They are just floating up there and the others are just looking. As if the one lined descriptions of each of them were so piercing that they couldn't even move. Would have at least expected Shana to charge in there, since she'd been itching to take Pheles for a while.

Was surprising to find out that Pheles was using an avatar. But makes sense why not much happened most of the episode. Just holding back until her main body could arrive to take care of it. Besides got some interesting info.

I wonder how many times Shana and Kazumi are going to say they aren't going to lose. Just agree on a threesome or something and then you don't have to keep bringing it up. Both of you win and that's that.

I think Pheles needs a change of outfits. She's been wearing that one style for centuries it seems.

Agreed about the whole Shana/Yoshida thing. At this point, I don't care if either of them wins or loses because neither of them are interesting anymore. Shana was interesting at one point, but that ended a season and half ago when she turned into the 2nd Yoshida.

I wonder if anyone from that setting ever considered that there are more important things out there to worry about instead of some teenage crush?

I mean, hey, the world's precariously balanced, hinging on the whims of a group of revenge-driven half-insane Flame Haze on one hand and an equally insane group of monsters on the other side, and now BOTH sides know exactly where a certain Mystes that can tip the balance is.

What do you do?

You stay right in the middle of a fairly populous city, among the people you care about and want to "protect", and spend everyday agonizing in idiotic bliss about who's lunch you're going to eat...somehow conveniently forgetting the fact that your very presence in effect makes everyone you care about a hostage to be used against you.

It's one thing if an obsessive immortal woman nicknamed the "eternal lover" flies around searching for her love for centuries - people expect her to be singleminded and strange.

Is it any wonder that Pheles laughed at them when she first appeared?

I'm glad Hecate's finally back into the fray though. She was interesting, at least before she turned into a girl.

Master Chibi

2008-01-22, 00:02

God I was banking that Pheles was going to be an evil, selfish behotch, and thank god she was. I was gagging the entire freaking episode otherwise. Why isn't Yoshida dead yet? Why is Shana continuing this joke of an accepted rivalry with Yoshida? I'm going to confess my love to him! I won't lose to you! Guess what, NOONE BLOODY CARES ANYMORE. If it wasn't the constant close ups of Carmel (<3 <3 <3 <3 <3) I swear I'd be killing off the studio behind Shana, one by one. I mean Pheles becoming friends with Yoshida? Give me a break, seriously.

Speaking of which, this is the ONLY good thing Yoshida's contributed thus far (s1 and s2)

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8396/vlcsnap108039oa5.png
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1867/vlcsnap108310we0.png
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6531/vlcsnap108515ry0.png

Chalk that up to my ex-gf getting me hooked on that look (jeans and no top + bra, or better yet, shirt, and no jeans + panties~).

Ironically enough, TANAKA HAS ROMANTICALLY PROGRESSED FARTHER in 5 minutes (the combined amount of time between his worthwhile scenes in this episode and the previous one) then Yuji has in 1 1/2 seasons. Go figure.

bmkharuhiism

2008-01-22, 00:02

I wonder how many times Shana and Kazumi are going to say they aren't going to lose. Just agree on a threesome or something and then you don't have to keep bringing it up. Both of you win and that's that.

Yeah it's getting really annoying. In a way, they are both saying that Yuji WILL be theirs and yet don't act on those words. I'm hoping eventually one of the two stops saying they're not going to "lose" and finally does something decisive to "win" Yuji's heart.

Ironically enough, TANAKA HAS ROMANTICALLY PROGRESSED FARTHER in 5 minutes (the combined amount of time between his worthwhile scenes in this episode and the previous one) then Yuji has in 1 1/2 seasons. Go figure.

I'm happy there's at least one definitive high school couple in this anime. Good for Tanaka and Oga.

taelrak

2008-01-22, 00:08

Speaking of which, this is the ONLY good thing Yoshida's contributed thus far (s1 and s2)

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8396/vlcsnap108039oa5.png
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1867/vlcsnap108310we0.png
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6531/vlcsnap108515ry0.png

Meh, that look isn't that great if the person wearing the outfit isn't that hot. If Pheles or Wilhelmina was wearing that...okay that'd probably just look weird...but still better than Yoshida! :p

Master Chibi

2008-01-22, 00:17

Meh, that look isn't that great if the person wearing the outfit isn't that hot. If Pheles or Wilhelmina was wearing that...okay that'd probably just look weird...but still better than Yoshida! :p

Well put a paper bag over Yoshida's head because the rest of her is certainly worth admiring.

imho of course.

MidoriHiME

2008-01-22, 00:24

teachopvutru

2008-01-22, 00:44

This episode really dragged and was a total disappointment after ep 13. HOWEVER, the cliffhanger was really awesome, especially since we'll get to find wtf is up with Konoe soon and Pheles's awesome arrival.

I was thinking no one would get any excited over this episode, though, after looking at the preview from episode 13...

@MasterChibi: hmmm... what episode are those images from? I don't remember them...

FlareKnight

2008-01-22, 01:00

Yeah it's getting really annoying. In a way, they are both saying that Yuji WILL be theirs and yet don't act on those words. I'm hoping eventually one of the two stops saying they're not going to "lose" and finally does something decisive to "win" Yuji's heart.It gets to the point where I'm thinking "ok Shana here's your chance, just drop her. That will end this thing once and for all." Then I think about the actual ramifications and let that subside a little.

Nice that they respect each other and all, but it does get old watching them reaffirm that often. Maybe by not losing they mean just spend time talking to each other rather than getting together with Yuji and settling this. Since if they keep it like that they won't win, but they aren't going to lose either.I'm happy there's at least one definitive high school couple in this anime. Good for Tanaka and Oga.I'm with you there. Congrats to Tanaka and Oga. They were making some small progress before, but seeing someone you care about get blasted really got Tanaka moving. But he does realize now that time isn't infinite and he better just get moving.

serenade_beta

2008-01-22, 01:14

@MasterChibi: hmmm... what episode are those images from? I don't remember them...

This episode, 14.

charizardpal

2008-01-22, 01:15

Anyone notice that in episode 8 of season 1 Yuuji grabs hold of Shana's torso when they're flying in order to hold on, whereas in this episode Shana seems to have learned telekinesis, and is able to 1) cause Yoshida to levitate from the window sill, and 2) fly along side her just by holding her hand? Is this a plot hole, or was the episode 8 just fan-service? (Season 1 had more moe character designs, and lots more fanservice...)

JaoJao

2008-01-22, 01:20

is oga dead or what? cause im sure she was killed by margery right?

taelrak

2008-01-22, 01:22

is oga dead or what? cause im sure she was killed by margery right?

Naw she was just wounded, and Yuuji restored her along with everyone else afterwards.

MidoriHiME

2008-01-22, 01:25

I was thinking no one would get any excited over this episode, though, after looking at the preview from episode 13...

I never watch the previews, as I like to be surprised each week =3

Reckoner

2008-01-22, 01:38

teachopvutru

2008-01-22, 02:35

Mellow episode with some wasted moments. It got awesome at the end with the Johan flashback and the actual Pheles appearing, only to get felt up by Silver.

I'll give it an 8/10, bordering on a 7 because of the "I'll win scene" for the millionth time.

I haven't watched this episode yet so I don't know what led Shana and Kazumi to mention the whole "I'll win" again, but given the amount of time it has been mentioned about so far (it was there since the first episode!), is there any chance that J.C.Staff is about to resolve this whole love triangle issue once and for all?

holyman282

2008-01-22, 03:21

I haven't watched this episode yet so I don't know what led Shana and Kazumi to mention the whole "I'll win" again, but given the amount of time it has been mentioned about so far (it was there since the first episode!), is there any chance that J.C.Staff is about to resolve this whole love triangle issue once and for all?

Well i believe the novel is still ongoing and the love triangle thing is like the glue that holds the story together, everything that happens in Shakugan no Shana attempts to propel the relationship and character development forward but i doubt they'll resolve the whole love triangle thing until near the end of the novel.

Also from the way it's looking, the characters are attempting to resolve the love issue but circumstances just prevent it from happening...

minhtam1638

2008-01-22, 03:23

Well i believe the novel is still ongoing and the love triangle thing is like the glue that holds the story together, everything that happens in Shakugan no Shana attempts to propel the relationship and character development forward but i doubt they'll resolve the whole love triangle thing until near the end of the novel.

Also from the way it's looking, the characters are attempting to resolve the love issue but circumstances just prevent it from happening...

You mean Yuji is. The girls are just waiting for an answer.

Sterling01

2008-01-22, 03:24

Also from the way it's looking, the characters are attempting to resolve the love issue but circumstances just prevent it from happening...

True dat :heh::heh::heh:

You mean Yuji is. The girls are just waiting for an answer.

I find Yuji to be like Matoko in that way

Irenicus

2008-01-22, 03:30

Yoshida Kazumi needs to die. :mad:

Seriously, she's a waste of airtime. I don't need to hear yet another "I won't lose" from the pair, not again.

I'm glad they finally gave an explanation why episode 13's battle was so disappointing. Good show, Pheles, you even deceived me. :p The twist and the double twist saved the episode for me really.

I hope it's all battles and battles from now on, and I hope (without much anticipation :() that Yoshida Kazumi would die a horrible death in one of the battles.

teachopvutru

2008-01-22, 03:32

It gets to the point where I'm thinking "ok Shana here's your chance, just drop her. That will end this thing once and for all." Then I think about the actual ramifications and let that subside a little.

Well, Shana did decide to make her confession on episode 12, only to be interrupted by Pheles. Not sure when J.C.Staff is going to decide to end this love rivalry, if anytime soon at all... At the very least, on that episode, Shana decided to take the initiative while Kazumi just went "can I wait?" :p

Whitemoon648

2008-01-22, 05:15

You mean Yuji is. The girls are just waiting for an answer.

I think he doesnt really care. At least not that much.
True dat :heh::heh::heh:

I find Yuji to be like Matoko in that way

no way. Makoto was the worse character ever.

P.S. I wonder Yuji will end up like another Naruto. Naruto has Kyuubi and maybe Yuji will get Silver :D.
P.S. I hope not lol.

Sinestra

2008-01-22, 08:04

Shiroth

2008-01-22, 08:32

no way. Makoto was the best character ever.
That's more like it.

Thank god those last two minutes happened which completely saved this episode. Also yet again it's the flashback scenes that really make this show for me. The BGM track played was very Ko Otani, and i loved it.

cnnydz

2008-01-22, 08:41

Wilhelmina's lack of cautiousness was a bit strange: she knew that pheles had such avatar spell, but she didn't expect that until it shows up... Well, obviously it might be not obvious to expect that, but seriously, some doubt would be preferable.

she knew the spell allow pheles to be where she wants, but she doesn't know the exact details (creating an avatar etc).

plzd0ntkeelme

2008-01-22, 11:56

This ep is disappointing for me. There is no action except the end part where Silver pierce Pheles' body.
I also dislike Pheles char. In prev ep, she simply appears as a woman who's desperate to find her lover. At the last part, she appears evil and very sinister. Her facial expression and tone of voice are just too different from how they were before.
Anyways, next ep is gonna be very interesting with Silver finally join the show.

Kaisos Erranon

2008-01-22, 12:41

The ending of this episode was worth every single moment of mental pain the rest of this episode gave me.

Maybe the Silver will make Yuji grow a freaking SPINE. I hope so.

I also hope that Shakugan no Shana will be remade by Kyoto Animation.

KaneDragon

2008-01-22, 13:02

Maybe the Silver will make Yuji grow a freaking SPINE. I hope so.
A SILVER spine. With lots of spikes coming out the back, and LASER BEAM EYES! :D

DeotoxSlayer

2008-01-22, 14:06

Kazumi learned a valuable lesson in this episode, never let your guard down because if you do well we all saw what happened. That Giant silver arm punching a hole through Pheles was a surprise and she called him Johan. Whether or not that person is Johan remains to be seen and if it is why did he attack Pheles. It might have something to do with the spell that has mutated the Meigo. On a positive note go Tanaka and Oga-chan:D I think after being with Oga Tanaka's will to become a Flame Haze will fade away as for his buddy i do see him one day succeeding in becoming one.

Next week the truth about Konoe is reveled and why her and her butler had those creepy glowing bracelets. I will say if she really is Hecate it would make sense for her to stop Pheles after all she wants Yuji prized little possession as well.

The Silver arm isn't Johan, she just called it Johan because she doesn't see Yuji as a seperate beign, she see's Yuji as Johan (when refering to him she never call him Yuji, always Johan) the silver arm stuck out of Yuji, so she think that he attacked her, and since she thinks that Yuji is Johan she also thinks that the one attacking her (the Silver arm that's coming out of Yuji) is also Johan.

Proto

2008-01-22, 14:20

DeotoxSlayer

2008-01-22, 14:31

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one who is enjoying the love triangle for what it is, how it has evolved from a traditional bickering rival relationship, to a respect each other relationship, to an actual friends relationship, where both Yoshida and Shana improve each other while maintaining a more than cordial friendship. I enjoyed this episode from start to end... possibly because i always enjoyed S1 more for the peaceful moments and how Guze's and Earth's inhabitants interacted with each other than the battles. Aw well, to each to his own

I kinda like the love triangle too. I think the reason that people are getting so angry with the who love triangle, and "I'll win scenes" is because of the fillers, the fillers grew old real fast, and they kept stressing the love triangle too much. I prefer a balance between battles, and romance, and there's been like no good fights at all this season, and that's making some people impatiant, the fillers made this season seem more like some Romance/Harem anime, and that irittated people because it retracted away from what made S1 good, and fun to watch.

taelrak

2008-01-22, 17:09

I kinda like the love triangle too. I think the reason that people are getting so angry with the who love triangle, and "I'll win scenes" is because of the fillers, the fillers grew old real fast, and they kept stressing the love triangle too much. I prefer a balance between battles, and romance, and there's been like no good fights at all this season, and that's making some people impatiant, the fillers made this season seem more like some Romance/Harem anime, and that irittated people because it retracted away from what made S1 good, and fun to watch.

I generally don't mind love triangles - especially since most of the anime I watch tend to have some element of romance and love triangles in them. Romance/harem animes can be incredibly entertaining and fun to watch. What makes Shana so bad is that it's a horrible romance anime.

1. Where's the triangle? Yuuji just sort of sits there while everyone else fights it out. Is he an object? Probably he's just too oblivious to notice. Still, 2 people do not make a love triangle.

2 The other issue is that there's no real growth in any of the characters throughout the series, but arguably quite a bit of backward progression. You see this a lot in Zero no Tsukaima too, so it's probably just a fault of the author to begin with. It's all good and well that there's the traditional, if a bit cliched, enemy->rival->respect for each other->friends development. However, the general idea is that you only go through this cycle once, and that even if you devolve into an earlier stage, it's very temporary and very minimal. This particular triangle, however, rehashes over ground already covered every other episode. It's not that they're not getting anywhere, it's that they go back and recover development that was already done in prior episodes. Okay, so Shana does change her dress once - i guess that's some progress.

I can analogize this to the DBZ style. They do the whole power-up thing once, and then they do it again the next episode, and then again, and then again, and of course they give a new name to it each time (stage 1, 2, 3, monkey-thing, whatever), but it's always the same old ground. Same with Shana here in the romance development.

It'd be one thing if they did either the action or the romance parts particularly well, but their presentation style is like Yuuji too - i.e. half-assed. As a result, the romance scenes aren't particularly good, and neither are the action scenes, and the sum of two inferior presentation styles doesn't add up to an overall good show.

Spectacular_Insanity

2008-01-22, 18:14

Well, that was a pretty cool episode. I think Pheles should die now. I can totally see that happening. I have no idea what the heck is going on anymore, but it's awesome as hell.

And a bit off the topic of the main plot, I still find two characters hilarious: Wilhelmina's Tiamat and Margery's Marcosius. I think Tiamat is funny because she never ever has said more than two words or three syllables at one time. Wilhelmina, btw, needs to stop saying ~de arimasu. It's annoying. However, I get a kick out of Marco, because he's always saying "my ____ and ____, Margery Daw", getting puched by Margery, and generally being a pure riot. He's endlessly entertaining. XD

Whitemoon648

2008-01-22, 18:31

That's more like it.

Thank god those last two minutes happened which completely Ruined this episode. Also yet again it's the flashback scenes that really make this show for me. The BGM track played was very Ko Otani, and i Hated it.

Yeah, I was wondering why Pheles was so weak in the begining. I mean every one was so scared of this allmighty Being Pheles.

So at least that weak ( well not that weak) version was only a fraction of Her mightyness.

Also i was shocked. With her acting like that, i was thinking she was going to leave them for a bit, and suddenly a wicked ( in a cool way) Pheles apears and my heart explodes from the sudden rush and excitement

P.S. Nartuo should be done the same way too. At least after fillers and side stories, Shana gets back in to the real action. No jumping scenes in Shana and thats why i like it *_*.

attobyte

2008-01-22, 20:56

S_K

2008-01-22, 20:57

The almighty Pheles has awakened!! DUN! DUN! DUUUN!
I knew Konoe Fumina would be playin an important role and in the preview was that gargoyle looking thing supposed to be Yuuji?

X207

2008-01-22, 21:57

ep 14 had a nice twist with pheles, the konoe/hecatenot so much. i expected hecate to come back a bit later but it doesnt matter much now. lol pheles sure was caught off guard with that hand. that gargoyle looks more like johan's personality took over yujis body ie same school uniform but face and appearnce taken over. one other thing i liked was that tanaka and oga got over hiding their feelings.

Proto

2008-01-22, 23:40

I knew Konoe Fumina would be playin an important role and in the preview was that gargoyle looking thing supposed to be Yuuji?

Refer to the last part of the 3rd episode of the second season

holyman282

2008-01-23, 00:36

Considering the flashback scene, it really seems that Pheles created the reiji maigo while turning Johan into a mistes.
In this sense could it be that she used Johan existence as creation material ?
If that is the case, Joham not only was the first mistes to host the reiji maigo but he is also the reiji maigo himself.

Yeah i was a little confused at the Reiji Maigo's creation.... Too much symbolism and not enough info on how the Reiji Maigo was created... It looked liked Pheles used the big clock as the material and somehow Johan floated into it...

Altima of the Gates

2008-01-23, 01:44

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one / one of the very few who is/are enjoying the love triangle for what it is, how it has evolved from a traditional bickering rival relationship, to a respect each other relationship, to an actual friends relationship, where both Yoshida and Shana improve each other while maintaining a more than cordial friendship. I enjoyed this episode from start to end... possibly because i always enjoyed S1 more for the peaceful moments and how Guze's and Earth's inhabitants interacted with each other than the battles. Aw well, to each to his own

Nah you aren't the only one. I for one find it more refreshing that their relationship is deepening. I can honestly say that I do not care who would get Yuji at the end, the friendship between these two is something that is beneficial for both of them.

And although I think Yuji sometimes is as thick as concrete, I can say that for now the relationships aren't moving at the pace they should mainly because of the gravity of the events occurring. Like someone has said before, Shana's confessions or possible relationship development is put off by a major event.

I liked this ep and look forward to 15. 8/10

Kaisos Erranon

2008-01-23, 02:03

Does it bother anyone else that all Yuji appears to do, EVER, is scream like a little girl?

HayashiTakara

2008-01-23, 02:08

The whole Shana x Yuuji relationship should've been solidified at the end of 1st season. In the second season, It should've been them getting use to being a couple, and what it means to be in a man x woman relationship, on top of being involved in some crazy action. It would've made the show a lot more interesting...

I think season one already taken care of the job of Shana and Yuuji working out their feelings, its about high time they moved on to the next stage... unfortunately not many anime does this... its always the dog chasing the car... its never what the dog does with the car if / when he manages to catch it... I would like to see that for a change.

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Does it bother anyone else that all Yuji appears to do, EVER, is scream like a little girl?

yes... and its starting to piss me off, he suppose to have godly powers and have been training for the soul purpose of using those powers, and all his big talk, "I WILL FIGHT!" is all BS, since the first enemy he runs into he piss his pants and screams.

Whitemoon648

2008-01-23, 07:38

Does it bother anyone else that all Yuji appears to do, EVER, is scream like a little girl?

What else can he do in that situation?

Proto

2008-01-23, 08:32

The whole Shana x Yuuji relationship should've been solidified at the end of 1st season. In the second season, It should've been them getting use to being a couple, and what it means to be in a man x woman relationship, on top of being involved in some crazy action. It would've made the show a lot more interesting...

Since the last arc of the first season was non-novel-cannon, the only thing that they could do was twisting the story a little so that the confession never happened. Unfortunately they almost went the literal way with this, but in any case you should blame S1 for introducing things that the S2 had to mend later :p

since the first enemy he runs into he piss his pants and screams.

Having him come out of the training grounds in order to fight one of the most powerful Crimzon Denizens of all history, and coupling it with a life or death situation out of the blue isn't the best way to have him build character though :p I would also prefer for him to show some training results, but I've also got to accept that the circumstances haven't helped >-<

HayashiTakara

2008-01-23, 09:02

At the very least, I'm glad they made Shana show that she's actually in love with Yuuji, they could've easily made her into an angry person that shouts and beats him all the time refusing to acknowledge that she is in love with him.

Kaisos Erranon

2008-01-23, 09:15

What else can he do in that situation?

Blast her with PoE? He's done it before...

Guido

2008-01-23, 18:32

While this episode was not a breakthrough in terms of action and shock in contrast to the previous episode, it was highly enjoyable to me for two factors.

1. First, I have grown to praise and love how the dynamics between Shana and Kazumi's love rivalry have evolved into mutual understanding and friendship for the other. Both have acknowledged in their own ways that they love Yuuji: 1) Shana in the world of Flame Haze and 2) Kazumi in the world of humans, as she shown to Pheles.

To me I believe the triangular relationship has reached the platonic stage where those three share and feel mutual blessings, mutual care, and mutual communication. It all would depend at the end on the choice that Shana, Yuuji, and Kazumi would decide upon to lead whom among those three will become the official couple.

2. Second, Pheles twist.

Kazumi opened her heart to let Pheles know how she feels the same way for Yuuji as the latter does for Johan.

But, I never have thought that the cast actually interacted with Pheles's avatar. The real one chose to stay quiet and observe the situation, until building a convenient situation where everyone let their guard down that would allow her to sneak right to Yuuji upon her arrival.

I cannot imagine how Kazumi felt devastated and betrayed that Pheles used her feelings to distract her in order to get right to Yuuji. I, myself, felt squashed because at one moment I felt sympathy for Pheles upon watching her flashback, but that compassionate built toward her crumbled the moment she threw out her facade.

What did Sabrac put into the Reiji Maigo? or more specifically, what effects the insignia casted upon provoked on the Reiji Maigo?

That right arm that came from within Yuuji clearly belongs to the silver.

The Keeper supposedly suffered a mutation and likely was from the insignia that Sabrac casted upon the Reiji Maigo.

But, how come the silver be inside Yuuji, unless the keeper has turned into the Silver.

And finally, for having unattended the Konoe affair for quite a time, next episode reveals Konoe's true identity.

AuditionEX

2008-01-23, 21:06

Please answer meh so I can continue watchin shana..

Is the suspicious transferred student (forgot the name).. is Hecate?

Klashikari

2008-01-23, 21:11

Blast her with PoE? He's done it before...
Yuuji can barely use his POE to cast a Fuzetsu and reinforce some part of his body to lessened/nullify the attacks dealt on him.

However, his POE doesn't grant him a fearless position. Psychology is very important in such matter, and I don't think anyone can blame Yuuji to be freaked out completely as his "body" is frightened to death by Pheles' presence/aura and intention.
The first time was a mere image, and Yuuji flipped as he felt he will be utterly destroyed, completely ignored by the green haired tomogara.

Here, we got true Pheles going happy extracting on him, while he doesn't have any way to protect himself. A fuzetsu wouldn't help and Yuuji obviously doesn't have any clue nor knowledge to "how to blast a crazy tomogara, before getting utterly demolished".

That's a overwhelming instinctive fear He got, which is quite logical. (any calm or retaliation attempt would look awkward or wrong in fact)

Please answer meh so I can continue watchin shana..

Is the suspicious transferred student (forgot the name).. is Hecate?
No one has a definite person, but this episode grants surely a sufficent hint to figure out the answer.
At worst, just look forward the next episode.

teachopvutru

2008-01-23, 22:01

Just watched this episode. It wasn't as bad as I had thought it would be, even if there weren't the twist toward the end. The beginning of this episode is spent for the characters to reminisce about their situations. I almost felt embarrassed watching this episode though, when it gets to this whole 'love' deal, while wondering how these people are able to say stuffs like that. :heh: The reminder of Shana vs Kazumi didn't bother me as much. If anything, I think a few "I'll win"s prior to this should be removed rather than the one in this episode.

The twist didn't feel much as a surprise to me since I was pretty much spoiled by this thread. I don't find Yuji's reaction at the end questionable either, although I do wonder about what he's capable of. In season 1, I do remember that he killed something while protecting Keisaku. Granted, that thing wasn't anywhere as strong.

My complain is really the character design. while it isn't bad, the character design in the OP looks a whole lot better. My other complain is how J.C.Staff. pretty much spoil (again) the good parts of the next episode. I would prefer it more if they give us just a glance. Some people may say otherwise but that's only my preference.

Otherwise, this episode feels like missing something... Not sure what it is myself, and the flashback on Pheles's past is too short.

I kinda like the love triangle too. I think the reason that people are getting so angry with the who love triangle, and "I'll win scenes" is because of the fillers, the fillers grew old real fast, and they kept stressing the love triangle too much. I prefer a balance between battles, and romance, and there's been like no good fights at all this season, and that's making some people impatiant, the fillers made this season seem more like some Romance/Harem anime, and that irittated people because it retracted away from what made S1 good, and fun to watch.

Maybe the shortcoming is from them finding the Pheles arc an ideal one to remind viewers of the love triangle relationship but stressing it too soon? (well, it was reminded of since the beginning of the season :heh:)

Kaisos Erranon

2008-01-23, 22:42

Yuuji can barely use his POE to cast a Fuzetsu and reinforce some part of his body to lessened/nullify the attacks dealt on him.

However, his POE doesn't grant him a fearless position. Psychology is very important in such matter, and I don't think anyone can blame Yuuji to be freaked out completely as his "body" is frightened to death by Pheles' presence/aura and intention.
The first time was a mere image, and Yuuji flipped as he felt he will be utterly destroyed, completely ignored by the green haired tomogara.

Here, we got true Pheles going happy extracting on him, while he doesn't have any way to protect himself. A fuzetsu wouldn't help and Yuuji obviously doesn't have any clue nor knowledge to "how to blast a crazy tomogara, before getting utterly demolished".

That's a overwhelming instinctive fear He got, which is quite logical. (any calm or retaliation attempt would look awkward or wrong in fact)

I haven't read them, but isn't he a lot less of a GIANT WUSS in the novels? WHY can't JC Staff adapt things accurately?

teachopvutru

2008-01-23, 23:05

I haven't read them, but isn't he a lot less of a GIANT WUSS in the novels? WHY can't JC Staff adapt things accurately?

I don't agree with "giant wuss" there. I haven't read the novel for this late in the story either (meh, Viz is too slow), but what else do you expect J.C.Staff to do? Yuji would only either have to stand there, freeze and grasp, or scream like he already does.

He may be a bit incompetent, but "giant wuss" is over stretching.

Imagine... errr, actually, can't think of a good example right now. :heh:

lua thien

2008-01-23, 23:18

Yuuji can barely use his POE to cast a Fuzetsu and reinforce some part of his body to lessened/nullify the attacks dealt on him.

However, his POE doesn't grant him a fearless position. Psychology is very important in such matter, and I don't think anyone can blame Yuuji to be freaked out completely as his "body" is frightened to death by Pheles' presence/aura and intention.
The first time was a mere image, and Yuuji flipped as he felt he will be utterly destroyed, completely ignored by the green haired tomogara.

Here, we got true Pheles going happy extracting on him, while he doesn't have any way to protect himself. A fuzetsu wouldn't help and Yuuji obviously doesn't have any clue nor knowledge to "how to blast a crazy tomogara, before getting utterly demolished".

That's a overwhelming instinctive fear He got, which is quite logical. (any calm or retaliation attempt would look awkward or wrong in fact)

Don't you think he might have learned how to at least respond after his first run-in with Pheles? Perhaps he could just poke her eyes out when she got close to call out to Johan? What makes it strange is that Margery, Wilhelmina, and Shana only watched but no immediate action from them.

Well, Yuji was scared stiff in his first encounter against the Rinne in Season 1 and, when Wilhelmina recreated that Rinne in Season 2, all he did was run before Shana told him to attack.

TougeSil80

2008-01-24, 00:41

Generally in shows like this the main character is a wuss. Yuuji is a already better than a lot of the other main characters (Shiro from F/SN comes to mind). At least now he can cast a fuzetsu without much problems. And remember, the Pheles at the end is her real body, so she's much stronger than the fake one, Yuuji can probably sense her energy, so being scared in that situation is normal.

I wonder what Hecate's plan is though, maybe she tipped off Pheles about the location of the Reji Maigo.

Sterling01

2008-01-24, 00:51

Or it could be the fact that he had a arm coming out of his body.

Also Shiro isn't a wuss He's just Dense

minhtam1638

2008-01-24, 01:25

I watched the episode, and don't mind me, but I feel there's something really lacking in this episode. Since when and why does Shana start calling Kazumi by first name?

defrule

2008-01-24, 01:36

Is Hecate supposed to be strong? She seemed mada mada in season one.

Tokkan

2008-01-24, 02:10

I watched the episode, and don't mind me, but I feel there's something really lacking in this episode. Since when and why does Shana start calling Kazumi by first name?

Since they bonded over their mutual affections for Yuji.

What's 300% more mysterious is why everyone is calling Shana "Shana-chan".

KholdStare

2008-01-24, 02:37

Meh, 9/10. Hearing Shana saying "Kazumi" was all it took.

Spectacular_Insanity

2008-01-24, 03:37

What's 300% more mysterious is why everyone is calling Shana "Shana-chan".

Yeah. I felt it was kind of a deux ex machina maneuver of "er... it's a nickname?" And everyone just accepted it.

Eisdrache

2008-01-24, 03:40

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one / one of the very few who is/are enjoying the love triangle for what it is, how it has evolved from a traditional bickering rival relationship, to a respect each other relationship, to an actual friends relationship, where both Yoshida and Shana improve each other while maintaining a more than cordial friendship. I enjoyed this episode from start to end... possibly because i always enjoyed S1 more for the peaceful moments and how Guze's and Earth's inhabitants interacted with each other than the battles. Aw well, to each to his own

No, you are not the only one :) I like the love triangle as well, but I can understand those who say that the x times "I wont loose to you" is annoying them.

However what I find much more annoying is that Yuji is incredibly dense, Yoshida confessed to him in S1 and he knows that Shana has some feelings for him as well. But what does he do?
1) Doesnt hear what Shana says at the end of S1
2) Doesnt realize that both Shana and Yoshida are fighting over him
3) Cares more for Konoe than Shana / Yoshida
4) Ike tells him to respect the feelings of other people and all he says is "Oh..."
5) At that rate we will have to wait for 6 more seasons until he makes the (wrong) decision.

Oh, and before I forget, there is one more thing thats also annoying, its the people who are constantly asking for more action in S2

teachopvutru

2008-01-24, 03:46

No, you are not the only one :) I like the love triangle as well, but I can understand those who say that the x times "I wont loose to you" is annoying them.

However what I find much more annoying is that Yuji is incredibly dense, Yoshida confessed to him in S1 and he knows that Shana has some feelings for him as well. But what does he do?
1) Doesnt hear what Shana says at the end of S1
2) Doesnt realize that both Shana and Yoshida are fighting over him
3) Cares more for Konoe than Shana / Yoshida
4) Ike tells him to respect the feelings of other people and all he says is "Oh..."
5) At that rate we will have to wait for 6 more seasons until he makes the (wrong) decision.

Oh, and before I forget, there is one more thing thats also annoying, its the people who are constantly asking for more action in S2

Very agreeable on your point about Yuji's denseness. After looking at what happened to Eita though, I wonder how thing would change if Yuji were to thought Shana was dead at some point in the story. Will he follow the same road that Eita did? :p

minhtam1638

2008-01-24, 04:18

Very agreeable on your point about Yuji's denseness. After looking at what happened to Eita though, I wonder how thing would change if Yuji were to thought Shana was dead at some point in the story. Will he follow the same road that Eita did? :p

Somebody forgot about season 1, episode 21.

cnnydz

2008-01-24, 07:38

No, you are not the only one :) I like the love triangle as well, but I can understand those who say that the x times "I wont loose to you" is annoying them.

However what I find much more annoying is that Yuji is incredibly dense, Yoshida confessed to him in S1 and he knows that Shana has some feelings for him as well. But what does he do?
1) Doesnt hear what Shana says at the end of S1
2) Doesnt realize that both Shana and Yoshida are fighting over him
3) Cares more for Konoe than Shana / Yoshida
4) Ike tells him to respect the feelings of other people and all he says is "Oh..."
5) At that rate we will have to wait for 6 more seasons until he makes the (wrong) decision.

Oh, and before I forget, there is one more thing thats also annoying, its the people who are constantly asking for more action in S2
yuji knew everything, but he just doesn't want to choose.

Kiyoru

2008-01-24, 12:22

Hm, interesting episode. Just when I was starting to like Pheles ;_____;

aw, well. there is a plus side - moar action next episode.

The Real Nemo

2008-01-24, 13:23

Is Hecate supposed to be strong? She seemed mada mada in season one.
Unknown at this point, so far the only special abilities we've seen from her are her synchronizing with Yuji and the fact that she can take in a potentially endless amount of existence without ever being filled.

cnnydz

2008-01-24, 13:29

Is Hecate supposed to be strong? She seemed mada mada in season one.

she is after all a guze no ou and one of the leaders of bal masque, so i wouldn't consider her being weak

teachopvutru

2008-01-24, 13:56

Somebody forgot about season 1, episode 21.

It's true I forgot about that. Now that you mention it though, I can only remember it vaguely. Shana was pierced through in trying to protect Yuji... actually, I think he did think Shana was dead (even though I'm still a bit unsure). Anyway, my bad. :p

(although now I feel a bit disappointed in Yuji :heh:)

KaneDragon

2008-01-24, 14:23

and the fact that she can take in a potentially endless amount of existence without ever being filled.
That never really made much sense to me. Denizens have a capacity? What's to stop any Denizen from consuming more poe? :eyebrow:

mikesince83

2008-01-24, 14:36

I was a little surprised with this episode. To be honest, I thought Pheles was only being introduced to serve as yet another unrequited love for Yuji. At first this episode in particular seemed on track to confirm my suspicions till it did a 180 in the last few minutes. I'll be looking forward to seeing how this develops.

Reckoner

2008-01-24, 21:50

I must say, Shana II has definitely killed off a lot of the characters' brain cells. Almost all of the characters seem more foolish, and more dense than ever before. Yuiji has at least always been a bit dense, so his demeanor is comprehensible to me.

On the subject of character denseness, what gets me is that they have one episode about the suspicion of Konoe and suddenly it all disappears. This is like bad dramatic irony put in front of us. And remember when Yuiji said something was weird about the mansion...? What ever happened to that, is this a plot hole?