Trigun/maximum

[Chrono Shark]

i just picked up the first volume of the darkhorse manga Trigun by Yasuhiro Nightow

apparently the first two volumes will be highlighting the good parts of the anime and adding some scenes(selling for a good $14.95 a volume), after these two volumes it will roll right into trigun maximum.

so if you want to save money on buying the anime in book version when you want Maximum, dont buy Trigun #1 or #2...

[Briareos]

The Trigun manga was around before it was ever animated, so what you're seeing in volumes 1 & 2 is the source material for the anime (not the other way around). It seems that a lot of filler was added to Trigun when it was animated, since the manga doesn't meander frivolously like the anime does at first. Hopefully when the Trigun manga ends (it's still ongoing as far as I know), it won't be as abrupt as the anime version was.

Here's why the name of the manga changed:
AnimeNation - Ask John: How much Trigun manga is there? (http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=678)

I bought Dark Horse's version of Vol1 and I have to say I like it. Sure it's $15 dollars, but it's nearly 2 inches thick at 360 pages! Vol2 is going to be 344 pages. Certainly worth the money.

[tsurumaru]

The Trigun manga was around before it was ever animated, so what you're seeing in volumes 1 & 2 is the source material for the anime (not the other way around). It seems that a lot of filler was added to Trigun when it was animated, since the manga doesn't meander frivolously like the anime does at first. Hopefully when the Trigun manga ends (it's still ongoing as far as I know), it won't be as abrupt as the anime version was.

Here's why the name of the manga changed:
AnimeNation - Ask John: How much Trigun manga is there? (http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=678)

I bought Dark Horse's version of Vol1 and I have to say I like it. Sure it's $15 dollars, but it's nearly 2 inches thick at 360 pages! Vol2 is going to be 344 pages. Certainly worth the money.

Hey nice to see you again Briareos, I'm definitely hoping to get hold of the DH release of this manga (one of the few I'm willing to shell out for a translated version)
:D.

Also thanks for the info re: Maximum......

[Briareos]

Hey tsurumaru! Good to see you too. (Speaking of shelling out, have you gotten the GITS manga yet? :D)

I also should mention that the DH version has not been translated by Studio Proteus, so the volumes are/will be in the orginal right-to-left format.

Does anyone know how big the Japanese collected volumes of Trigun are? I know it's not unusual to see phonebook sized Japanese multi-author/story serial magazines, but I don't know how common large collected volumes are.

[tsurumaru]

Hey tsurumaru! Good to see you too. (Speaking of shelling out, have you gotten the GITS manga yet? :D)

I also should mention that the DH version has not been translated by Studio Proteus, so the volumes are/will be in the orginal right-to-left format.

Does anyone know how big the Japanese collected volumes of Trigun are? I know it's not unusual to see phonebook sized Japanese multi-author/story serial magazines, but I don't know how common large collected volumes are.

Finally got around to getting a copy of Volume 1 of the series and I have to say its excellent value! The quality of print and translation are pretty good too! I also like it being non flipped.... another gold star for Dark Horse. :D

[Ookla The Mok]

Does anyone know how big the Japanese collected volumes of Trigun are? I know it's not unusual to see phonebook sized Japanese multi-author/story serial magazines, but I don't know how common large collected volumes are.

The Japanese volumes are JIS B6 size, I'm pretty sure. So they're bigger than 390 yen series like Jump Comics/Shonen Sunday/Shonen Magazine tankobons, which are ko-B6 (see http://home.inter.net/eds/paper/jpaper.html for paper size explanations) and they're the same size as other ~550 yen series like Young Jump (GANTZ, etc) and JETS Comics (Berserk, Ai Yori Aoshi, etc) tankobons.

[Dorfl]

I bought Dark Horse's version of Vol1 and I have to say I like it. Sure it's $15 dollars, but it's nearly 2 inches thick at 360 pages! Vol2 is going to be 344 pages. Certainly worth the money.
Hardly. I saw it in the bookstore today, it's a maximum of 1 inch thick, if at that. I saw the Berserk manga too, but it was shrink-wrapped so I didn't touch it.

[Gamera]

Hardly. I saw it in the bookstore today, it's a maximum of 1 inch thick, if at that. I saw the Berserk manga too, but it was shrink-wrapped so I didn't touch it.

Don't know what book you were looking at, but the Trigun release from Dark Horse is much closer to two inches. (I'm the one who translated it, I have 20 copies of it, believe me, I know how thick it is ;) )

The reason there are two separate series will become clear after you read volume 2 (due out in January). I'm working on Trigun Maximum now, so that we can get it into your hands early next year!

- Justin

[Dorfl]

Trigun volume 1, right? Do you mean 2 cm or 2 inches? The version I saw in the bookstore was DEFINITELY much smaller than 2 inches.

[Briareos]

Yes, Trigun Vol.1 from Dark Horse in the U.S. is nearly 2 INCHES thick. No the original Trigun collected vol.1 from Japan (I have no idea how thick that is).

I really don't know what it is that you're looking at, but the one we're talking about is 360 pages long. You'd have to use rice paper to fit that many pages into 2 cm.

Good job on the translation Justin!

[fenrihr]

they seemed to have used thicker than normal paper, cause for reference, the akira vol. 6 was 430+ pages and only was about 1.5 inches thick, so thinking about it, i'd say it's less than 2, but more than 1.5.... now if i could just get it back from my friend.....

[Gamera]

Yes, Trigun Vol.1 from Dark Horse in the U.S. is nearly 2 INCHES thick. No the original Trigun collected vol.1 from Japan (I have no idea how thick that is).

I really don't know what it is that you're looking at, but the one we're talking about is 360 pages long. You'd have to use rice paper to fit that many pages into 2 cm.

Good job on the translation Justin!

Thanks, B!

It's always nice to hear feedback (good or bad) from the people who matter most to me... the diehard fans.

- Justin

[fenrihr]

keep up the good works!

or we'll have your head......





.... really.

[Briareos]

Oh yes, threats are ALWAYS the best way to motivate people. :eyebrow: Not!
Is it so frelling hard to be civil?

[LBW]

Damn, DH refused to export to Europe too a while ago, guess I won't be able to get them. >>';

[tsurumaru]

Damn, DH refused to export to Europe too a while ago, guess I won't be able to get them. >>';

Really? Forbiddon Planet in London (They have a new store recently opened) had loads of copies, quite reasonably priced too (for the UK).

I'll check out if they do international mail order, or online ordering for you....

If not I'm pretty sure http://www.archonia.com (based in Belgium) will stock it.
I have used them before, but unfortunately their website is down at the moment whilst they revamp it.

[LBW]

Very odd, since it was on archonia that I found out about it.

http://www.archonia.com/index.php?page=news&showyear=2003&showmon=12&id=1605

[AG3]

My local store here in Norway has had it for some time, I bought it just today. It costed 165 NOK here, or 24.75 USD (according to xe.com).

I thought it had skipped a lot, since it seems to jump in around the 5th-7th episode of the anime. Apparently not :) Kudos for keeping the honorifics, like sempai. I prefer it that way myself. The only think I miss is an explanation of what the different "sounds" are.

It's a great book, and I'm looking forward to buying #2!

[LBW]

Well I'm confused now really, Raijin and Viz did the same thing and I couldn't get their manga anymore either unless at some outrageously high prize. :x

[Ookla The Mok]

Yes, Trigun Vol.1 from Dark Horse in the U.S. is nearly 2 INCHES thick. No the original Trigun collected vol.1 from Japan (I have no idea how thick that is).

I really don't know what it is that you're looking at, but the one we're talking about is 360 pages long. You'd have to use rice paper to fit that many pages into 2 cm.
Um... I think you are both seriously underestimating how big an inch is. And a centimeter as well.

40# offset paper stock averages at 624 pages per inch (312 sheets) and 247 pages per centimeter (123.5 sheets).
50# offset stock averages at 526 pages per inch (263 sheets) and 206 pages per centimeter (103 sheets).
60# offset stock averages 416 pages per inch (208 sheets) and 166 pages per cm (83 sheets).
70# offset stock averages 345 pages per inch (172.5 sheets) and 136 pages per cm (68 sheets).

These are the most common paper weights. I have here (Japanese) Jump tanks that measure to be 60# paper.

360 pages at 60# would be 0.864 inches or 2.16 cm. For 360 pages to be 1.8 inches (my guess at what you mean by "nearly 2 inches") it would have to be 170# paper. That would mean that each page would be as thick as the book cover. Obviously, that is not the case.

360 pages in 2 cm would be about 55# paper. That's far from being rice paper.

If you really want to know how thick your books are, I suggest you get a ruler.

Oh and for your reference, 20# bond paper, the common good-quality letter-size paper you buy in the store, is as thick as 50# offset paper.

[Dorfl]

If you really want to know how thick your books are, I suggest you get a ruler.
I eagerly await the results of the measurement. Or I could just go down to the bookstore and measure it myself, but I already know that Ookla is right. I won't give that volume more than 1 inch. Not that it matters, just that it's weird to hear people talking about "it's so thick" when it's nothing extra-o. The only US-licensed manga I've seen that was closer to the 2 inch mark (or actually around 1.5...) was the Lum Urusei Yatsura Perfect Collection thingy by Viz.

Now, speaking of Dark Horse, I sure hope they speed up on 3x3 eyes. I remember reading the first slim volume thingy in 1997, now it's 2003 and they're only at volume 7? So at this rate they'll be done in...ummm...my math is bad. Let's say 30 years, 2033. Oh deary deary me.

[Briareos]

I suppose you measured the Lum book as well. :eyebrow: I think you're seriously underestimating what an inch looks like. Trigun Vol.1 is most certainly larger than an inch (at 360 pages, whereas the Lum Perfect Collection is 400). How many other US, translated mangas are 350+ pages? And those paper stock specks are for unprinted virgin stock. Slight thickness is gained when printing is added if I'm not mistaken.

You know, this IS really stupid and trivial, but it's pissing me off that a 360 page book is "no big deal". The frelling book is most certainly more than an inch in width, and most certainly more than two frelling cm. The first thing I am doing tonoight is measuring the damn thing, and posting the width. Maybe the thing IS only 1.25 inches, but compared to most other manga I've purchased (that weigh in between 180 and 260 pages), it's pretty thick. My guess of two inches is probably wrong, but it's bigger than an inch for sure.

[Ookla The Mok]

Well personally page count to me means more than book thickness...I just naturally assume that the paper will be decent quality. So I find it much more meaningful to hear "360 pages" than "1 inch."

But once I hear things like "2 inches" that just sounds like hyperbole. I mean, I've got a new hardback book here, Paladin of Souls by Lois McMaster Bujold, nice paper, 470 pages (including the unnumbered pages at the beginning), and the paper part of the book (not counting the hardback cover) is 1 and one 16th of an inch thick.

[tsurumaru]

This has to be the most pedantic arguement I've read in a while! Are you guys trying to outdo the Naruto forum? :p
I think everyone here should be intelligent enough to understand that the original comment's meaning was to express the excellent value that the large volume represented, and wasn't meant to be taken as an exact measurement.
Oh well I guess the measurements will end this bickering. :)

Referring to Dorfl's comment made in this thread about 3x3 Eyes and its rate of release. I'm guessing that this slow release is the trade off that is made for having Studio Proteus do the translation job. It seems that most of the Super Manga Blast titles suffer from this slow release speed (including Narutaru) due to the fact that they are being released chapter by chapter on a monthly basis and only then collected into TPB format.
Just remember, 3x3 Eyes translation and release was completely halted prior to its inclusion in SMB due to low sales figures. As the storyline only starts to pick up at around Volume 12 of the Japanese version (and excels from here onwards) I would rather it was translated slowly than not at all! (Bring Guyver back Viz! - 21 Volumes and counting.......)

[Briareos]

Yes, value was the original point. For example:

Chobits Vol.8 = 128 pages @ $9.99
Trigun Vol.1 = 360 pages @ $14.99
Nausicaa Vol.1 PC = 138 pages @ $17.95

(Of course Nausicaa is my favorite manga of all, so I didn't mind the price.)

I just remember picking up Trigun at the shop and thinking, dang that's thick for the price. From what I understand Dark Horse has combined the first two Japanese volumes into a single volume for American release: That's about 180 pages for each original volume.

I'm done splitting hairs on thickness, but I'm illogical enough that I'm still going to post Vol.1's measurement.
:topicoff:
Studio Proteus is about the only translation company that mirrors manga in the process of translation anymore. This has to slow the process a bit. Plus they seem to have a lot of titles under their belt.

I have all of the Guyver serialized comics from viz, from the beginning till they put the title on hold to concentrate on Pokemon and other money makers (my guess). I miss that series, but I really wish they'd continue translating the Patlabor manga. Two graphic novels of that and it stopped cold.

And who could forget Marvel's five year (at least it seemed that long) delay in releasing the (dialogue edited, fully colored) last book of Akira. My collection of that looks horrid. I have the first large volume in Hardcover (signed/limited edition). Then the smaller softcover collections Vol.4-Vol.10, followed by the idividual issues from 28 (or so) until the end. I should sell the whole lot and just get the Dark Horse edition.

[Ookla The Mok]

From what I understand Dark Horse has combined the first two Japanese volumes into a single volume for American release: That's about 180 pages for each original volume.
Actually the original Shonen Captain volume 1 has a whole bunch of pages. I assume it's that same 360. Next time I'm in one of the used bookstores I'll check. (But I'm not carrying my nice Bates ruler with me in my backpack.)

Studio Proteus is about the only translation company that mirrors manga in the process of translation anymore. This has to slow the process a bit. Plus they seem to have a lot of titles under their belt.

Mirroring the pages is not always a lot of work--I mean, "flip horizontal" in Photoshop, c'mon--but SP does have to do a lot of work with titles like Blade of the Immortal where they try to avoid having left-handed samurai. Also when there's (English) text on signs and whatnot... The big time-taker though is probably sound effects replacement. Unless there aren't many sfx to replace, of course.

[tsurumaru]

Mirroring the pages is not always a lot of work--I mean, "flip horizontal" in Photoshop, c'mon--but SP does have to do a lot of work with titles like Blade of the Immortal where they try to avoid having left-handed samurai. Also when there's (English) text on signs and whatnot... The big time-taker though is probably sound effects replacement. Unless there aren't many sfx to replace, of course.

Yes, I'd also assume "retouch" is the most time consuming exercise of the whole mirroring process........

[Briareos]

Forgive me for being a stubborn arse and splitting hairs in my posts above.

Trigun Vol.1 measures 1 1/16" in thickness
Lum Prefect Collection 1 1/4" thick

I'm so used to thinner volumes of manga that my mind blew the book out of proportion. I still feel that it's an excellent value.
_______________________________________

Torren Smith has said before at studioproteus.com that retouch is the biggest time consumer. All I remembered offhand was that SPs mirroring process was time consuming.
_______________________________________

Justin, on a translational note:

Now that I've re-read Trigun Vol.1 (and I don't know why I missed this the first time) I see that there are no side-bar translations of the sound effects. Was this an intentional decision or an oversight?

[Ookla The Mok]

Hmm...well I know Tim Ervin-Gore, DH manga editor, pushes for in-panel translation near the original sfx, in a similar style. But I'm sure something like this isn't an oversight..."oh yeah, we forgot the sound effects!! DUH!" It'll probably remain this way for these titles though...

Anyway about retouch, whether you're mirroring or not, it's what takes longest. VIZ's Shonen Jump stuff isn't mirrored but it's heavily retouched for the sfx. A lot of TOKYOPOP's stuff isn't retouched at all, leaving white erasure marks where there was text on top of the picture--and consequently, their stuff is fast.

[Gamera]

Justin, on a translational note:

Now that I've re-read Trigun Vol.1 (and I don't know why I missed this the first time) I see that there are no side-bar translations of the sound effects. Was this an intentional decision or an oversight?

I spent the majority of my translation effort (and time) in translating (or interpreting) sound fx. Only about 5% of them were overwritten (photoshop or the like). They insisted on the FX translation, so I was as surprised (or more so, probably) as you that they were not included. I can certainly understand why they were not blotted out as they're an integral part of Nightow's artwork, but I was anticipating a side-bar or the like, as well.

My contract is quite specific about the script not being public domain, but if you find any sound fx that were particularly puzzling or unclear, I see no harm in answering any "onesie-twosie" specific questions you might have.