Spice and Wolf - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Spice and Wolf, Episode 4.

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Episode 4 will be broadcasted this 30th january at 1:30 AM (Japan Time Zone),
which means this 29th january at 4:30PM (GMT 00).

[Masanori Ota]

I'm falling asleep. Time to get a shower.

EDIT: I am an idiot. See below for details.

[Klashikari]

Eight more minutes! I'm falling asleep! No! Time to get a shower.

8 more minutes...? If you are talking about the broadcast time, it is in 11 hours.

[Masanori Ota]

8 more minutes...? If you are talking about the broadcast time, it is in 11 hours.
Nevermind. I am used to military time. :l

[serenade_beta]

Another week passes and the first episode to air while this series has it's own forum!

Not really sure what to expect, so I'll go with what I know from the preview (that I could actually understand...):

-Lawrence brings his newly learned info to Milone Company
-Dream comes closer to being fulfilled for Lawrence, Horo is slightly sad for some reason (obvious?)
-Lawrence and Horo sleeping the the cart near each other.
As for what is happening, she was probably just stopping him from saying something.

[sapphire-pyro]

When exactly is the broadcast time of this show? In Japanese time? I am getting confused x_x

I am so excited for this episode *_* I miss Lawrence and Horo already xD Hehe

[Klashikari]

When exactly is the broadcast time of this show? In Japanese time? I am getting confused x_x

I am so excited for this episode *_* I miss Lawrence and Horo already xD Hehe

Please read the first post...
Episode 4 will be broadcasted this 30th january at 1:30 AM (Japan Time Zone),
which means this 29th january at 4:30PM (GMT 00).

Basically, it has been almost one hour it has been broadcasted already.

[Masanori Ota]

And there's still no raws out, though I haven't checked NicoVid...

[km0120]

This episode was interested too.

http://livetokaiup.hp.infoseek.co.jp/cgi-bin/img-box/img20080130034358.jpg
http://livetokaiup.hp.infoseek.co.jp/cgi-bin/img-box/img20080130035156.jpg

[NoSanninWa]

I really wish folks would learn that they need to upload images to an ImageHost (http://www.imagehost.org/) since often hotlink protection will prevent those images from appearing. You might not realize this, since if the image was already in your browser cache it will appear, but people who haven't already visited the page won't be able to see it. That means the poster is completely unaware that nobody can see what he posts.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Just waiting in anticipation for this episode.

[Kankel]

Can anyone please clarify if Horo means "whore" in Finnish? :twitch:

[Sterling01]

huora and portto mean whore in finnish

[Vexx]

Short answer is "No" ... it just so happens to sound somewhat similar. The names Chloe and Lawrence is obviously 'european' but I'm not having any luck with the linguistic roots of 'Horo' so far.

EDIT: Ah ha! "Horo" is just the word in the Ainu language for "wolf" (main reference: some writeups on a feature called "The Shaman King" in IMDB) ... still looking for a better reference.

[serenade_beta]

-Lawrence did tell Milone Company about the stuff he figured out last episode and has Zeren investigated after meeting Zeren again.
-Horo gets drunk, starts laughing after remembering past events, falls down, gets up, and forgets what she wanted to tell Lawrence... :heh:
She sleeps hugging her tail! Must make a good replacement for a hugging pillow.
-The glasses-guy from the OP appears, Marhait (sp?)!
It seems a place called Medio or something is behind Zeren. And some noble is behind them...
-*laughs* at Lawrence's mood and attitude at the getting closer to his dream of a shop. :heh:
But Horo, on the other hand, is quite a bit depressed by this news because that would leave her alone again. Lawrence first reacts to this very lightly, but he comes back to Earth soon and shares a tender? moment with Horo.
-*laughs when Lawrence hits the bed*

-Finally they get to that scene in the anime preview... All it was was that Lawrence got into his own bed to find Horo there, but because his eyes are not used to the dark yet, he was feeling around to figure what it was... Of course, he finds out it is Horo.

-Things get exciting half-way when Medio's people appear to chase after Horo and Lawrence.
Horo manages to convince Lawrence (somewhat) to let her be the bait so that he could reach Milone Company safely. Lawrence makes it, but Horo is captured.
Lawrence wants Marhait to save Horo, but Marhait calmly analyzes the situation such as how they have no need to take Lawrence or Horo hostage (in other words, kill=OK) and how it is strange why they were targeted in the first place. BUT, Lawrence has an idea.
Then a letter appears with Horo's fur in it and a letter about wolves, etc.

Then we go to Horo's view, where she is growling at her capturers when someone comes in...
When I saw those shoes, I thought of Chloe... :uhoh:

Next time - Wolf and Lover's Quarrel

[FlareKnight]

Well now things are getting pretty serious. Thank you nicovideo and the ability to turn off the comments :).But wow they had a ton of stuff going on here. And they economics can be boring :). Bit troublesome that I can't understand much of what is going on so will need to have others talk about it.

Seems Lawrence started making his move in regards to Zerin. Seems like the guy they were talking to at the start was the same one Horo pulled her fur trade plan with. Or they could all look the same. But anyways guess things aren't going to turn antagonistic there.

Something about a drunk Horo is pretty moe. At least the blush that comes up. Guess something about Lawrence rocking on the chair sends her into the giggles. Though definitely what tops it off is when Horo gets tired and is laying there hugging her tail :love:. Just a great character no matter what.

Then we have them talking to that blond guy from the OP. Guess he's heading that company. Whatever was brought up seems to be pretty profitable to Lawrence and gets him into a good mood. Think of Parker in that Spiderman 3 movie without the stupid 70s music in the background. Guy is having a good time. Though either Horo has a hangover or just isn't all that upbeat herself not sure.

Get to see apparently Lawrence's goal to open his own shop down the road. Pretty nice house design and I suppose he's been calculating how far away he is. Guess if the plan he has works out he'll be a lot closer to that dream.

Though doesn't seem to put Horo in a happy mood, was pretty depressed. Horo is sad someone do something :upset:. Can't really pick up what the exact thing is. Possibly about being worried that Lawrence would leave her alone. Has probably been left alone for quite a long time. Will really look forward to the subs on this scene. Just sitting there crying against Lawrence. Not bad guy using the picture for her to dry her tears with.

Poor guy getting banged up as he tries to make his way to his bed :). Then the shock when he finds that she had gotten in there ahead of him. Not surprising though on one level since she can see in the dark. Then the kiss scene....almost anyways.

This is where everything gets bad+serious. Some guys are sneaking around the door preparing to rush in on them. Luckily her ears picked them up early enough to get ready to move. Horo's red eyes in the dark is a really striking image. Of course had to make a break for it out the window.

Pretty smart giving Lawrence some of the wheat for safe keeping. Stupid noble Horo. Drawing away the guys so Lawrence could make a break for it. At least the plan worked so Lawrence got to safety at that company. Those guys had to run off since they couldn't get through the gate and probably didn't feel like taking on everyone there.

Sadly not sure about what's going on next. Chatting again with the guy in the OP. Clearly Lawrence is getting bothered by the whole thing. On one side at least being really worried about Horo. Will be interesting to find out what is being said at this point.

A letter gets delivered to the room. Something about a wolf being said quite often. Maybe some of Horo's hair drops out of it. Lawrence says something to them that gets a very shocked expression. Did he let the wolf out of the bag so to speak?

Finally end up with Horo backed into a corner. Those guys better watch it. Some pretty angry growling is coming at them. Then we have someone showing up that is quite surprising to Horo.

Gah next week can't come fast enough. Horo is in a very bad situation that leaves you worried.

[Serenity85]

-Lawrence did tell Milone Company about the stuff he figured out last episode and has Zeren investigated after meeting Zeren again.
-Horo gets drunk, starts laughing after remembering past events, falls down, gets up, and forgets what she wanted to tell Lawrence... :heh:
She sleeps hugging her tail! Must make a good replacement for a hugging pillow.
-The glasses-guy from the OP appears, Marhait (sp?)!
It seems a place called Medio or something is behind Zeren. And some noble is behind them...
-*laughs* at Lawrence's mood and attitude at the getting closer to his dream of a shop. :heh:
But Horo, on the other hand, is quite a bit depressed by this news because that would leave her alone again. Lawrence first reacts to this very lightly, but he comes back to Earth soon and shares a tender? moment with Horo.
-*laughs when Lawrence hits the bed*

-Finally they get to that scene in the anime preview... All it was was that Lawrence got into his own bed to find Horo there, but because his eyes are not used to the dark yet, he was feeling around to figure what it was... Of course, he finds out it is Horo.

-Things get exciting half-way when Medio's people appear to chase after Horo and Lawrence.
Horo manages to convince Lawrence (somewhat) to let her be the bait so that he could reach Milone Company safely. Lawrence makes it, but Horo is captured.
Lawrence wants Marhait to save Horo, but Marhait calmly analyzes the situation such as how they have no need to take Lawrence or Horo hostage (in other words, kill=OK) and how it is strange why they were targeted in the first place. BUT, Lawrence has an idea.
Then a letter appears with Horo's fur in it and a letter about wolves, etc.

Then we go to Horo's view, where she is growling at her capturers when someone comes in...
When I saw those shoes, I thought of Chloe... :uhoh:

Next time - Wolf and Lover's Quarrel

OMG no poor Horo, looks like the cats (well wolf in this case) out the bag and ppl know shes not human, grr death can't come fast enough to the one who cut Horo's fur... Cries want subs so bad for this and next week can't come fast enough... and if Clhoe's behind it... Lawrence hurry up and save her dam it^^

This seems pretty fast movement story wise so I wonder how long its gonna take for (points to spoiler) to be resolved.

[MakubeX2]

This episode follows exactly word-for-word of Chapter 4 of the novel. Just allow me to clarify a few points :-

1. Lawrence needs to find out what exactly is Zeren up to, since he can't absolutely profit from his schemes based on what Horo said in Ep 3. He can't do it alone, so he ask Milone Guild to do it for him with the information at hand, in return he gets cut of the profit from the scheme.

2. As figured, Zeren is just an underling. Since the Milone Guild has confirmed Lawrence information to be truth, all they need to do is to move fast, reverse the schemes back at the Medio Guild and gets the upperhand. And of course, as stated in the contract, Lawrence gets a cut of the eventual profit.

3. The profit is enough for Lawrence to ends his travelling days even at a measely 5%. He can realise his dreams to setting up a shop in the city. But Horo is not happy because she has enough of being worshipped as a God and had nobody to talk to.

4.In her half-drunken state, Horo opened herself up to Lawrence, and Lawrence knows exactly how she feels, since he was always on the road alone. And he just throw his plans away,explaining that in Business, something's bound to crop up and ruin everything.

5. Horo remembers what she wanted to tell Lawrence since Milone can check up on Zeren, the reverse can happen with Medio checking up on Lawrence, and this turns out true with the thugs shows up.

6. Horo gives half the wheat to Lawrence, just in case the worse happens. Since Horo had already mentioned she can't dies as long as the Earth produce Grains. If she happens to get killed, she in her spirit form can "reincarnate" to the Grain held by Lawrence.

7.Lawrence escape to Milone. Unforutnately, Marhait explains that technically Lawrence is expendable since they had all information they need and a huge Profit is at hand, they can risk it all for him.

8. The Fur is not explain from the novel whether it's Horo's. But what Medio do know is that they knew what Horo is. Somebody from the Village had already inform them. This means that Medio had ties to the Villge who worshipped Horo.

9.Horo can take care of herself actually. She can always revert back to her Fenrir state and maul everyone to death at Medio's. And if those at Medio, out of a miracle, kills Horo, she can always "reincarnate" via the Grain in Lawrence's hands.

[Vexx]

Lets just hope that Lawrence realizes your "item 9" and doesn't do something foolish :)

Interesting how rapidly this has turned from placid to dynamically dangerous. I wonder if that'll be the relative ebb and flow of the story (will it return to placid).

[FlareKnight]

This episode follows exactly word-for-word of Chapter 4 of the novel. Just allow me to clarify a few points :-

1. Lawrence needs to find out what exactly is Zeren up to, since he can't absolutely profit from his schemes based on what Horo said in Ep 3. He can't do it alone, so he ask Milone Guild to do it for him with the information at hand, in return he gets cut of the profit from the scheme.

2. As figured, Zeren is just an underling. Since the Milone Guild has confirmed Lawrence information to be truth, all they need to do is to move fast, reverse the schemes back at the Medio Guild and gets the upperhand. And of course, as stated in the contract, Lawrence gets a cut of the eventual profit.

3. The profit is enough for Lawrence to ends his travelling days even at a measely 5%. He can realise his dreams to setting up a shop in the city. But Horo is not happy because she has enough of being worshipped as a God and had nobody to talk to.

4.In her half-drunken state, Horo opened herself up to Lawrence, and Lawrence knows exactly how she feels, since he was always on the road alone. And he just throw his plans away,explaining that in Business, something's bound to crop up and ruin everything.

5. Horo remembers what she wanted to tell Lawrence since Milone can check up on Zeren, the reverse can happen with Medio checking up on Lawrence, and this turns out true with the thugs shows up.

6. Horo gives half the wheat to Lawrence, just in case the worse happens. Since Horo had already mentioned she can't dies as long as the Earth produce Grains. If she happens to get killed, she in her spirit form can "reincarnate" to the Grain held by Lawrence.

7.Lawrence escape to Milone. Unforutnately, Marhait explains that technically Lawrence is expendable since they had all information they need and a huge Profit is at hand, they can risk it all for him.

8. The Fur is not explain from the novel whether it's Horo's. But what Medio do know is that they knew what Horo is. Somebody from the Village had already inform them. This means that Medio had ties to the Villge who worshipped Horo.

9.Horo can take care of herself actually. She can always revert back to her Fenrir state and maul everyone to death at Medio's. And if those at Medio, out of a miracle, kills Horo, she can always "reincarnate" via the Grain in Lawrence's hands. Glad for all the information so now I have a clue waht's up :).

Big information in regards to Horo's state. Was curious about what could happen with her. So long as the world doesn't end and grain can no longer be grown she should be alright.

Was surprised she didn't just go and take those guys right then and there. But guess she doesn't want to go on a rampage if she can help it. Feel for her since finding out that the village had betrayed her like this would be a hard thing. After all she did getting outed like this....Lets just hope that Lawrence realizes your "item 9" and doesn't do something foolish :)

Interesting how rapidly this has turned from placid to dynamically dangerous. I wonder if that'll be the relative ebb and flow of the story (will it return to placid).Though we are talking about Lawrence. Even though the guy isn't a bad merchant, but may be too much to expect him to think calmly.

[Sterling01]

Just finished the episode and it's nice to see they're following the Novels fatefully.

Also Drunk Horo is moe

Though we are talking about Lawrence. Even though the guy isn't a bad merchant, but may be too much to expect him to think calmly.

We'll see :heh::heh:

[Serenity85]

well Horo giving Lawrence the wheat is indeed a smart idea but she forgot 1 important thing he is himan afterall. He clearly cares for her and if such an event were to happen she just be brought back to lawrence via the wheat but it will still crush Lawrences state of mind. Think about, the girl he cares about just got killed for one of his reckless attempts to make a buck and he couldn't do anything to prvent it. He even told Clhoe she couldn't come cause it was dangerous for her. And not to mention he shouldn't be wasting precious wheat and theres always that slim change he doesn't make a profit He's being to careless.

Grr need sub now^^ How long after release is BSS sub?

[FlareKnight]

well Horo giving Lawrence the wheat is indeed a smart idea but she forgot 1 important thing he is himan afterall. He clearly cares for her and if such an event were to happen she just be brought back to lawrence via the wheat but it will still crush Lawrences state of mind. Think about, the girl he cares about just got killed for one of his reckless attempts to make a buck and he couldn't do anything to prvent it. He even told Clhoe she couldn't come cause it was dangerous for her. And not to mention he shouldn't be wasting precious wheat and theres always that slim change he doesn't make a profit He's being to careless.

Grr need sub now^^ How long after release is BSS sub?Have to agree if she does get killed, even coming back it will be tough on Lawrence. Well took Horo a while to remember to bring up that the group they will be going against could check out what Lawrence is doing. Since he'd been looking pretty suspicious when dealing with Zerein.

Just hope we can find out what happens to Horo soon.Well if they hold true to form will probably show up in about 9 hours give or take things that happen while subbing. Really quick so always appreciate the effort they give.

[Vexx]

It... will.. be.. out... when they release it. It may take longer than average, it may be faster than average. With only 3 eps to go by, its hard to call anything an "average" yet. Fansub==hobby, not a job, eh?

[kari-no-sugata]

Another great episode, but what a change of pace!

As a side note, I noticed that Lawrence promised Horo a new set of clothes. I guess this is where her style in the OP comes from. I hope the old ones don't become blood-stained :uhoh:


PS I didn't pick up exactly what was the *actual* money making scheme being used with the currency reducing in value.

[Serenity85]

It... will.. be.. out... when they release it. It may take longer than average, it may be faster than average. With only 3 eps to go by, its hard to call anything an "average" yet. Fansub==hobby, not a job, eh?

aw don't be mad Vexx (not that I think you are^^) I know it will be out when its out^^ just curious how fast they were with last eps cause I've seen fast subs that come out same day (usually bad quality) and ones that take weeks and tend to fall behind raw release^^ Just impaitent and yet not impaitent (want it now but not at a sacrifice of quality)

Back on topic. It seems like its gonna be another agonizing long week for are next ep^^

[MakubeX2]

Was surprised she didn't just go and take those guys right then and there. But guess she doesn't want to go on a rampage if she can help it.

Given how she like to tease Lawrence, it's more like she wants to get Lawrence running scare and came to her rescue like a Knight in shininh armour. You'll see in the next episode.

Feel for her since finding out that the village had betrayed her like this would be a hard thing. After all she did getting outed like this....

She had already had a clear despise for the villagers. It's not really a surprise that one of them will betray her.

[FlareKnight]

Given how she like to tease Lawrence, it's more like she wants to get Lawrence running scare and came to her rescue like a Knight in shining armour. You'll see in the next episode. She wouldn't....well it is Horo so maybe she would :heh:. Big dramatic moment as she used herself as bait in order to escape.She had already had a clear despise for the villagers. It's not really a surprise that one of them will betray her.Well know she would be pretty upset considering their behaviour. But just seems like this is stepping beyond things. One thing to run away scared of her, not seriously taking the promise any more and it being more habit than anything. Just felt like it was something else to betray her like that.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

I loved the change of pace. Its also good to see how well the anime is following the manga.

[Vexx]

aw don't be mad Vexx (not that I think you are^^) I know it will be out when its out^^ just curious how fast they were with last eps cause I've seen fast subs that come out same day (usually bad quality) and ones that take weeks and tend to fall behind raw release^^ Just impaitent and yet not impaitent (want it now but not at a sacrifice of quality)

Back on topic. It seems like its gonna be another agonizing long week for are next ep^^

No, not mad (though I did pull out my 'standard aggravated reply' to that sort of question). I'm spinning around in impatience myself.

I've seen a few indications, reviews, and analyses that many of the sub groups are "not quite getting it right" in terms of Horo's dialog and speech patterns. We've established she uses a dialect remindful of an "18th C. Edo courtesan (pleasure girl)" ... but translating that into subtitles that give the viewer that feeling is quite tough.

Something elegant but erotic is needed ... now which *words* would one use to convey that?

Much sympathies for the translators, editors, and QC people in the various subgroups trying to capture that.

[Serenity85]

Ya I know waiting is tough but a well done sub is worth it^^ Its all good in the end^^ The subs are doing a great with the trans for Horo's unique yet perfect language^^ Bite the bullet and wait right :P

[Kaoru Chujo]

Another enjoyable episode. Horo's sadness. The intensity in the circumstances: capture, no-one really on their side, betrayal by the people she had supported for hundreds of years, possible death and resurrection, wolf growl.

I have some respect and sympathy for Lawrence. He thinks pretty quickly, and he is actually in love with Horo -- why else would he (appear to?) give up his dream so easily. And I enjoyed seeing them in bed together, and the way he gritted his teeth in momentary self-restraint and then embraced her.

Of course the thing that is really special about this show is Koshimizu Ami. Once again, she just takes over when she starts to speak. And especially when she cries. I know of no seiyuu who cries better.

[Masanori Ota]

Oh the emotional twists and turns this episode encompassed. The action too. Definitely a 9. Feel like I could watch an hour of that.

[Anacone]

Can anyone please clarify if Horo means "whore" in Finnish? :twitch:

I should have seen this coming :uhoh:...Yes, it does mean that in "spoken language"... I don't know how widely it's used in here, though, haven't heard it while... In kaannos.com "horo" is translated as "skanky"...

[Vexx]

I should have seen this coming :uhoh:...Yes, it does mean that in "spoken language"... I don't know how widely it's used in here, though, haven't heard it while... In kaannos.com "horo" is translated as "skanky"...

And I've discovered that it apparently means "wolf" in the ancient Ainu tongue of Japan (i've only found one reference in an IMDB review though... still seeking solid confirmation) -- (see my previous post on it)

Sometimes in linguistics, just because something *sounds* like a word in another language - doesn't mean anything.

And in contradiction to romaji spelling rules, one of the Mediaworks image designers spelled it "Holo" and there's an ongoing Wiki dispute about whether its "Horo" or "Holo" (even though, again, "lo" isn't one of the romaji choices)

I'm betting the author used the Ainu word (Ainu being subversively cool and a bit anti-establishment to the Official Reality in Japan ;) ).

edit: Here's an interesting bit I found ---

For regional variations on this Ainu creation myth, see Sarashina Genzo and Sarashina Ko, Kotan seibutsuki: Yaju-kaiu-gyozoku hen (A biological chronicle of Ainu villages: Volume on terrestrial animals, marine mammals, and fishes) (Tokyo: Hosei Daigaku Shuppankyoku, 1976), 2: 291-92. An English version of this story can be found in Carl Etter, Ainu Folklore: Traditions and Culture of the Vanishing Aborigines of Japan (Chicago: Wilcox & Follett Co., 1949), 20-21. Interestingly, John Batchelor rejected this origin myth, saying that it was not a traditional Ainu tale. Some critics of the Japanese settlement of Hokkaido claimed that, because the female wife of the wolf god was often depicted or described as a Japanese court lady, that Japanese trumped up the story to place Ainu in a subordinate position to themselves, as children of the Japanese. That fits right in with her "Edo courtesan" dialect choice :) and the wolf was the protective guardian spirit of the Ainu.

These two Ainu legends may also be of interest:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/shi/safl/safl10.htm (THE LEGEND OF HOW THE YOUNGER SISTER OF THE WOLF-GOD WAS GIVEN TO ME (to wife.))
http://www.sacred-texts.com/shi/safl/safl08.htm (THE LEGEND OF THE LADY OF KUNNEPET. A LEGEND OF LOVE AND WAR.)

[Serenity85]

Ok I've been slowly working my way through the generic thread (I usually always do this even after a fourm is made or exist, its fun read^^) After reading through pages 40-44 I'm now kinda confused to something... where are we anime --> novel wise? I thought I read we were at volume 4 but from what I read..

we seem to be following volume 1 close, a member mentioned the plot for 1 in the gen thread and we seem spot on it...

Can some clarify this cause if we are still in 1 then things set up nice for more seasons^^

Season 1 1-6 - Coin arc (vol. 1) , 7-12 - (vol. 2)
Season 2 1-6 - (vol. 3), 7-12 - (vol. 4)
Season 3 1-6 - (vol. 5), 7-12 - (vol. 6)
Vol. 7 - Dvd extras as from what I read its just extra story/fun arcs
Season 4 - if 6 doesn't end it (I don't think it does)

Any thoughts^^

[Deathkillz]

Thanks to the summaries from the first page, this made much more sense :)

NOOO!! How dare they cut horo's hair ;__;

We know that she isn't the goddess of war, but she could have turned nasty instead of getting cornered like an animal ;____;

It was painful, yes.

I really didn't expect the drama to be so sudden for this series and it came as a pleasent surprise. Seeing horo and lawrence bond was also a treat. Poor horo - I am physically weak against her droopy ears.

We know that the other dude was rotten >.> It is a shame it took lawrence so long to realise.

Ahh, I can't wait to see what happens next. Didn't expect chloe to be coming back so fast but the chances are that she will. Here comes the love triangle :heh:

[Vexx]

aye,,,, I'm definitely up for that sort of ending. Though I think perhaps the both of you should spoiler tag that discussion.... :)

[FlareKnight]

Certainly not an ending I would be against.

[Serenity85]

Ya I think that be the most excepted ending for season 1 (lol) It sets up their relationship but leaves room for more to come^^

Still a little confused still about novel but I get the gists, thanks^^ I'll poke around when I get home from work.

[serenade_beta]

Season 1 1-6 - Coin arc (vol. 1) , 7-12 - (vol. 2)
Season 2 1-6 - (vol. 3), 7-12 - (vol. 4)
Season 3 1-6 - (vol. 5), 7-12 - (vol. 6)
Vol. 7 - Dvd extras as from what I read its just extra story/fun arcs
Season 4 - if 6 doesn't end it (I don't think it does)

I would be highly amused if this series got that many seasons. :heh:


Wolf and Lover's Quarrel

Because Horo was captured by Medio Company, Milone Company seals off any way to negotiate bought Treni silver coins.
Lawrence, who continued to roughly negotiate with Marhait, risking both of their lives, proposes a secret plan.
While preparing the plan to rescue Horo, they would forestall negotiations of silver coin transactions with the Treni king.
Marhait, agreeing to this proposal, prepares to rescue Horo while Lawrence waits for Horo in the sewers, but...

But Chloe appears instead...

[MUAHAHAHAHAHA]

Isn't Chloe an anime character only?If that is really her wouldn't this like disrupt the novel?And i thought of buying the novel.........Can someone explain this to me?

[serenade_beta]

Isn't Chloe an anime character only?If that is really her wouldn't this like disrupt the novel?And i thought of buying the novel.........Can someone explain this to me?

Well, there is no 100% insurance that the anime will follow the novel. It seems that it is so far though.
According to other people, it seems possible that Chloe will simply replace another character.
That's good that you want to buy the novel. It needs an explanation? :heh:

[Masanori Ota]

I wouldn't mind if Horo ate Chloe "by accident". :l

[Vexx]

It *looks* like Chloe may be a condensation of several characters with overlapping traits and desires to simplify the storytelling. It'll be interesting to see how they play this "business-infused" triangle.

"It's just good business." -- almost every character in PotC:World'sEnd.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Saw the raw, interesting to say the least, just need the subs so i can be sure about wth is going on. Loved the way her eyes were glowing in the dark to, that looks really good, sig or avatar waiting to happen lol. That was quite the growl Horo had going there at the end to.

[MUAHAHAHAHAHA]

Well, there is no 100% insurance that the anime will follow the novel. It seems that it is so far though.
According to other people, it seems possible that Chloe will simply replace another character.
That's good that you want to buy the novel. It needs an explanation? :heh:

No? I am talking about Chloe actually.....oh just forget about it

[Cal-Reflector]

Am I the only one who likes Chloe here? Ah well. The fan boy in me did a little leap when immediately after talking about how it'd be easier to make friends and find a wife after becoming a shop owning trader Lawrence's train of thought drifted to Chloe. I'm sure it's nothing, but never the less, as a potential rival to Horo for Lawrence's affection, I hope Chloe gets it together if only to up the ante.

A wolf is great, but a normal lass is fine too.

[FlareKnight]

Subs really are great :)

Well I guess all those worried Lawrence would be screwed in the future due to Horo's trick last episode have nothing to be concerned about. Guy really did take it fine and as a learning experience. Besides with a big deal like this old things can be left behind :).

Some nice information though especially surrounding why Horo made that deal concerning the wheat. Looks like the guy she made the promise with (apparently a dunce :D)was the first person who treated her as a friend. So probably wasn't a big thing for her to agree to help his village out.

[Masanori Ota]

Woohoo, subs. I'm putting them up on Veoh for those who don't like torrents/can't torrent. You'll know where to find the link, when it's done. ;)

[tabun]

well Horo giving Lawrence the wheat is indeed a smart idea but she forgot 1 important thing he is himan afterall. He clearly cares for her and if such an event were to happen she just be brought back to lawrence via the wheat but it will still crush Lawrences state of mind. Think about, the girl he cares about just got killed for one of his reckless attempts to make a buck and he couldn't do anything to prvent it. He even told Clhoe she couldn't come cause it was dangerous for her. And not to mention he shouldn't be wasting precious wheat and theres always that slim change he doesn't make a profit He's being to careless.
During episode 1, Horo first explained how she was able to move to another stack of wheat; and I may have been mistaken, but(!) if the remainder of this "stack" (which she is wearing around her neck) get separated and one part destroyed or, say, scattered, she may "switch" to the next largest remnant of that stack. No? Am I wrong? I hope not :(

Still, adding a little action to the usual bickering and business talk sure is a nice change of pace! I am intrigued as concerns Chloe's part in all this, from your hints that she is an "anime only" character. Who filled her part in the novel? Oh well, another weeks worth of waiting :<

Am I the only one who likes Chloe here? Ah well.
Weeeell, like as she was shown in ep01? Or even 02? Yes. But if she is to become a threat to Horo... rawr! But yes, up to this point indeed ^^ mainly, as I must admit, because her art resembles that of Mizushima Asa (from Sora no Iro, Mizu no Iro... kinky :heh:). Oh well ^^

[noob3d]

Finally some serious action and more development in the relationship between Horo and Lawrence.

Horo's "lonely" speech was not the most original thing but it did make me feel really sorry for her:(.I would not be surprised to see more plot twists and chaos now that Horo has been discovered.I would have prefered the story not to turn into a tragedy drama if that is the case.

So far I do not see Chloe fitting into anywhere just yet unless the person in the cloak at the end is Chloe which is unlikely but of course I always welcome surprises within logical circumstances.

[kamikazex]

man talk about an intense episode

[Irenicus]

The dangerous life of a traveling merchant. o_0

Great episode. :) It reminds me, strangely enough, of the jewel plot in The Three Musketeers, little things that drove men to great lengths. Realistic conspiracy is always appreciated over the usual save-the-world ordeal. Even at episode 4, I'm already hoping for a second season.

I'm curious though: How much of the loneliness act from Horo is serious and how much is just Lawrence-teasing?

[Khaos]

Wow, best episode so far, very intense. Beautiful first part, thrilling second part and a nasty cliffhanger.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Good episode.


The first steps of the conspiracy are falling in place, but it seems a tad more complex than I had expected. It's not just a simple matter of hoarding silver, but more an elaborate conspiracy to corner the silver market and make a killing from the outcome. I believe there was a similar world-scale attempt in real-life back in the early 1920s, but I'll have to check to be sure.

It seems the Medioh Company has realised that Lawrence has spoiled their plans and hatched a new idea in response -- to capture the Corn-wolf. I'm curious as to how they know about Horo's real identity though. That cloaked woman might just turn out to be Chloe.

Coincidentally, it had just occurred to me today, while reading about Venetian courtesans, that Horo might have had a previous relationship, especially with the young boy who first asked her to be Pasroe's Corn-wolf. Heck, she's a 600-year-old spirit and a fertility goddess who's afraid of being lonely. And she speaks in a courtesan dialect. I would be very surprised if she isn't, *ahem*, "experienced."


Thumbs up. My first 9 for the series. :)

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Saw the Sub, wow, ok talk about some serious plans going down, need next weeks episode now kk tks.

Horo's little spiel about being alone was kinda interesting, but i wonder how much (if any) was an act. Still she might genuinely be alone. The others she named though were her.. um.. pack-mates (that doesn't seem right), brothers and sisters. Wonder if she'll see them again though. It would be sad to be without family for a few hundred years.

The look on the Milone head guy when Lawrance told him that she was the incantation of a wolf-god of the harvest was great, makes me wonder if he was thinking "Oh my god pagan!" or "oh my god, harvest god, leads to harvest, leads to money!", prolly just "omg his friend is a god, wait what".

And I have a feeling that the person at the end there was Chloe, Horo recognised them, and it looked female to me. Or at least the outline didn't seem big enough to be male.

[Deathkillz]

Am I the only one who likes Chloe here? Ah well. The fan boy in me did a little leap when immediately after talking about how it'd be easier to make friends and find a wife after becoming a shop owning trader Lawrence's train of thought drifted to Chloe. I'm sure it's nothing, but never the less, as a potential rival to Horo for Lawrence's affection, I hope Chloe gets it together if only to up the ante.

A wolf is great, but a normal lass is fine too.
No, you aren't the only one ;)

Having chloe play the part of a rival will open up a can of drama imo. On one hand we have chloe who already expressed her love interest on lawrence, but on the other she may soon find out that horo has taken that place in lawrence's heart. Things will get ugly if she becomes jealous and uses "business" as a weapon. She will certainly be good at bargining especially while holding horo hostage. This would put her on the side of being a villain but in her defense its for the sake of love :rolleyes:

[arkxkra]

omg, Horo being catch. Who is that person in the robe? is that red hair girl in the village(i forget her :p)? Hopefully the Marhait will help Lawrence and hopefully he is a good guy.

Horo the lonely side was damn lonely, watching tat part also feel the loneliness.

can't wait for next episode.

[FlareKnight]

Would definitely make it all interesting if Chloe is involved here. This is a pretty massive thing and least would fit on that level she was talking about.If Lawrence's counter to this big scheme could get him a shop the same should be for Chloe especially if she is in an intergral part of it.

I'd rather have some more faith in Horo that she didn't pull an act on being lonely just to keep Lawrence traveling with her. No doubt she would be extremely lonely anyways. After being isolated from her relatives/friends for a very long time. Then the only friend she had with humans or at least the first passed away after time leaving her to keeping a promise for people who eventually didn't care.

Also a valuable lesson here. Drinking just isn't good. Even a wise wolf can forget something very important due to it :).

[Masanori Ota]

Episode 4 is up on Veoh now.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v3412272qGMhkwQD

[Khaos]

I don't understand how anyone would come to the idea of Horo pulling an act about her being lonely... :confused:

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I liked this episode, and there was some interesting suspense at the end with... what was it? A new wolf? I figure that because of the hood and cloak. I could be completely off, but Horo seemed to recognize him/her. However, it doesn't look like s/he is too friendly... :(

Their concern for each other is cute. I'm looking forward to the next episode. 9/10.

[SvenTheSweeper]

I enjoyed Ami’s Horo again in this episode. It’s hard for me see why some Japanese fans don’t think her performance is sexy enough. The wide range of emotions she shows and the tone of her voice reinforces Horo’s feminine charm. I find Horo to be delightfully sexy without being overpowering, enchanting, lovable, strong, and yet have a sympathetic vulnerability. This episode proves it again. I’d love to be in Lawrence’s position.

On the other hand, Chloe gave me a nice impression in the first episode so I wouldn’t mind ending up with her if I was Lawrence, just based on that one episode. However things may change, because I am of the same mind as everyone else that the girl Horo recognized at the end of episode 4 is Chloe. I am guessing the big business proposal Chloe offered to Lawrence in episode 1 will be revealed later on as being related to the currency exchanging scheme. We will see how virtuous or villainous she is.

I liked this episode, and there was some interesting suspense at the end with... what was it? A new wolf? I figure that because of the hood and cloak. I could be completely off, but Horo seemed to recognize him/her. However, it doesn't look like s/he is too friendly... :(

The idea of a new wolf character was my first impression because Horo recognized him/her, Horo is a god that is not easily caught and therefore it took another god to catch her. But I talked myself out of it and thought it was more likely to be a human character such as Chloe. I am in a delightful state of suspense as to who the mystery person will be.

[Cal-Reflector]

No, you aren't the only one ;)

Having chloe play the part of a rival will open up a can of drama imo. On one hand we have chloe who already expressed her love interest on lawrence, but on the other she may soon find out that horo has taken that place in lawrence's heart. Things will get ugly if she becomes jealous and uses "business" as a weapon. She will certainly be good at bargining especially while holding horo hostage. This would put her on the side of being a villain but in her defense its for the sake of love :rolleyes:

Glad to hear it; I've a reoccurring soft spot for underdogs (underdog vs sage wolf? makes a good analogy actually).

Too much of the speculation taking place in this thread depends on the assumption that Chloe is the figure in the cloak. It's possible; I think the biggest hint is the title of the next episode, but we don't know for sure it. I personally think that it's rather quick of the staff to bring back Chloe so quickly... though I certainly wouldn't complain.

Looking back at episode 1 however, it seems that there was much foreshadowing about Chloe's participation in the current plot--her mention of a big deal coming down that she and Lawrence could make a killing off of (enough to open their own stores) and that he'd suffer if he underestimated her (which he did).

[Vexx]

Finally sat down and watched the whole of ep 4 .... solidly executed - I'm amazed the director covered so much ground well with so little time budget. a "10" just for the editing .... though I wish to hell these were 1hr eps or that the series had been tagged for 26 eps.

Aye, frankly the Horo "not sexy enough" naysayers leave me dumbfounded. The VA's acting and Horo's animation combine to make one of sexiest portrayals I've seen in a while --- exceptionally amazing with what is clearly a fairly tight budget production.

I listened to the Japanese several times but I got the impression that even Horo had a finite life span from her talk about her missing comrades. Imagine living so long and everyone you know is gone or only lives for a brief instant.

[Ultenth]

Yeah, Horo isn't supposed to be a god or anything really, just a very smart wolf who is really big, has some magical powers, and lives a lot longer than usual.

I was kinda surprised that Lawrence gave up her identity so quickly, but my guess is that it's because they were unwilling to save her initially, and he hoped it would give them motivation to try to help her. My guess is it could very well backfire on him though.

[Vexx]

He literally had no other choice, especially once he understood the Medioh house *knew* who she was. This part is a bit "wtf?" because the impression given was that in this time period most people figure the nature gods are imaginary anyway ... and a bit hard to believe that business-minded people would go for the idea.

The word "god" has to be taken in a sort of Arthur C Clarke way: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Though in this case its 'any sufficiently alien or advanced being may as well be labeled a "god".

Nasty little threat about the Church doors opening in that letter though .... :(

Certainly the episode is quite an epiphany for Lawrence as well as a cliff-hanger.

Speculation:
There's only really enough time in the series for two adventures (assuming this current adventure doesn't last the entire series)
.... so my speculation is that Chloe is involved and the money-scam adventure will be at least tentatively resolved by ep 6. Then the last half may concern an adventure relating to the shepherdess we see in the OP.

[Masanori Ota]

I'd copy Vexx's comments if I didn't have anything more to say, but I do after watching the subs.

My main concern is the sexual tension in the bedroom when Horo switches beds. Lawrence was surprised, she pulls him down, he hugs her, and moves in for a kiss? Or is it that he really can't see her yet? Anyhow, she tells him she finally remembered what she had to say, but what she says, that bad dudes are outside the door, doesn't seem to match the her mood in her drunken moments the day before.

So does she still have more to say? Is what she wanted to say "I believe in you"? Are the "lovers" referred to in the title of the next episode literally or jokingly referenced?

As you can see, I'm mainly interested in the romance part of SaW/WaS, lol. Don't know why. I'm male too. Guess I'm just a sappy dude, a sucker for sweetness. :l

[Vexx]

I think the little conversation and bed chat has as many vectors of meaning as one might dream up. One of the nice things about the series --- its just not one-dimensional in context. In a nutshell, the bad guys had extremely bad timing to torture the romantics among us ... or perhaps Horo knew she would have his full attention so that they could maximize their survival chances... or after the conversation it just seemed natural to cuddle... :)

Sidenote:
I did some dialog comparison of all the groups subbing the series
.... so far I like ADTRW's translation the best (even though it may not be the most accurate) as it flows well and conveys the underlying meaning of the communication. However, they seem to have dropped the series (?) after one ep.
So, my next favorite choice is BSS (amazing translation considering the speed of release). They aren't futzing up basic pronouns in implied-noun sentences or ending up with awkward grammatical construction (multiple factual examples found). The sentence structure seems to reflect the pauses and pacing of English while managing to retain more of the japanese sensibility (purely subjective on my part).

I used about 10 comparison scenes from the first two episodes to arrive at those choices.

That said, as usual, each translation from all the groups had better and worse moments depending on the scene, so your mileage may vary depending on what is important to you.

[Chiibi]

This episode was pretty good. I went "awww" a lot.:(

[FlareKnight]

Really too bad that it isn't going to be a really long series. But sounds about right that we will take care of this money plot and probably have time for one more thing with that other girl from the OP before its done.

Guess Lawrence had to take a gamble since he couldn't exactly go and get Horo out all by himself. Plus since that Medioh group knows who she is they could indeed follow through with the threat of taking her to the church, though I'm sure they plan on making use of her.

If Chloe is a big part of this I'd say any positive opinion of her is going right out the window. Putting Horo into this kind of situation is somehow not going to get on Lawrence's good side. Just seems like she is playing a role somehow with the foreshadowing at the start of things.My main concern is the sexual tension in the bedroom when Horo switches beds. Lawrence was surprised, she pulls him down, he hugs her, and moves in for a kiss? Or is it that he really can't see her yet? Anyhow, she tells him she finally remembered what she had to say, but what she says, that bad dudes are outside the door, doesn't seem to match the her mood in her drunken moments the day before.I do think that what she had to say was concerning people from the Medioh company showing up. Probably intended to say it earlier, but got drunk and her mind wandered. So she started remembering funny times with that first friend of hers and couldn't recall it until hearing those guys outside the room.

[Shiroth]

So it's pretty certain that the person who faced Horo at the end of episode four is the same person she was talking about, her first friend?

Oh and gotta love the episode title for episode 05.

[Vexx]

Um, no, her first friend after leaving the north was the human boy whom she made the compact with to support the village harvest. He's long dead because that happened hundreds of years earlier.

The names of the missing comrades Poro, Miyori, Yueh, Intii.... they're apparently her fellow wolfpack she set out from the north with 500 years before... somehow she got separated from them and lost them. She still has nightmares about it. She's lost *everyone* she's had an attachment to.

From a wolf/canine perspective, the most emotionally traumatic thing you can do is separate them from their pack. That's why many dogs misbehave or tear things up when left alone --- they range from thinking the pack is punishing them to being simply driven insane with loneliness. That's a major reason I don't own a dog though I'm quite fond of them. Unless I had a job that let them accompany me (like hunting or farming, etc), it just isn't fair to them to be separated from the pack (or the alpha dog == owner).

Its unknown who the cloaked person is, but the oddsmakers are betting on it being Chloe.

[Shiroth]

Um, no, her first friend after leaving the north was the human boy whom she made the compact with to support the village harvest. He's long dead because that happened hundreds of years earlier.
Hmm, i don't remember hearing about his death (did we?) --- so i'm just gonna keep the possibility in my head until episode 05 airs. I know 100 years ago, but who knows.

But yeah, chances are rather low. :p

[Bonta Kun]

All I can say is

OMG DIVINE PUNISHMENT WILL BEFALL THEM THAT CUT HORO'S HAIR!!!!!:frustrated:

how dare they do that to Horo!!!

well the person in the cloak def has to be a woman as the shoes and the build just say so to me.

have to say been a while or in fact I can't really remember a series that has wanted me so eagerly awaiting a next episode, or got me soo fired up over something like hair cutting but then cutting Horo's hair in that manner is a crime not even gods can escape!

[Deathkillz]

All I can say is

OMG DIVINE PUNISHMENT WILL BEFALL THEM THAT CUT HORO'S HAIR!!!!!:frustrated:

how dare they do that to Horo!!!

Considering that she was growling like a wild wolf, I'm rather surprised that they managed to get some hair in the first place.

She should have just ripped their balls off for touching her prized tail (looked like tail hair to me :eyespin:).

[mikesince83]

Overall and excellent mix of romance and action in this one. It was entertaining to watch Lawrence fumbling his way over to bed. Initially I expected him to 'become disoriented' and end up going to her bed, but the actual result speaks volumes for Horo.

[FlareKnight]

Considering that she was growling like a wild wolf, I'm rather surprised that they managed to get some hair in the first place.

She should have just ripped their balls off for touching her prized tail (looked like tail hair to me :eyespin:).Who is saying that those guys we saw near the end were the ones that went for the hair :heh:.

I'm pretty sure that anyone who went after her precious tail would have quite the painful lesson coming their way. Might even add onto why she was pretty angry at the end of the episode. Not that being captured wouldn't add onto that.

[KholdStare]

This episode was almost perfect. It's one of the most enjoyable ones for me this year. 10/10

[X207]

those dirty dogs :frustrated:, i hope they get the punishment they deserve. ep5 e wont seem to have too much action. i feel that it will expose the medioh company and they'll be fine if the church lets them escape.

[Anh_Minh]

I still don't understand the scheme.

If they want to cause a panic and get the silver the merchants were hoarding for cheap - OK, I can see that, even though it seems like a lot of effort and risk for not that much profit.

But what does Milone's company gain by hoarding it too? And early, at that?

[FlareKnight]

I still don't understand the scheme.

If they want to cause a panic and get the silver the merchants were hoarding for cheap - OK, I can see that, even though it seems like a lot of effort and risk for not that much profit.

But what does Milone's company gain by hoarding it too? And early, at that?
Hmm well I may not have it fully grasped but will take my own guess. If you have all these merchants gathering a weakening currency. So they spend the money to get it. Eventually find out that the currency they gathered is losing worth so will want to get rid of it even at a loss, better than holding onto a currency that's losing value. All that is pretty easy.

Now maybe the plan is to hold onto the currency until it increases in value again. At that point you'll have a large amount of a strong currency and it cost you little to acquire it. A big company can probably afford to hold onto a weak currency until that time. Now can they encourage it so the currency gets stronger quickly? Or maybe I'm completely off base and my being unfamiliar with economics is coming back to haunt me.

Now something a little easier to understand. Death to those who cut Horo's hair :frustrated:!

[Anh_Minh]

Yes, that's what I understood too. That doesn't explain why the Milone company's trying to hoard it now, before its value takes a massive dive because of the conned merchants panicking. Because, even if it doesn't happen exactly like the Medioh company planned and the merchants don't panic, the value of the coins is still going to decrease because of the lowered silver content.

[X207]

who here aside from me thinks that they're bluffing about calling the church? they want to give lawrence a strong desire to come save horo and also the caped person wants to talk with her.

[serenade_beta]

Now something a little easier to understand. Death to those who cut Horo's hair :frustrated:!

You say that, but if someone offers to sell you a fur coat made from her fur/hair for a low price of $10, what would you do?
:heh:
Oh, and no killing and stealing allowed.

1. Kill the man and lose the coat. Horo's sacrifice is for naught
2. Buy the coat gladly and leave peacefully.

[Vexx]

The scheme is *supposed* to sound like the scheme often used with stocks that routinely sucks small investors dry.
1) Some analysts moan about a stock.
2) "Based on that" some institutional brokers sell a sufficient amount -- it triggers selling programs and other institutions also sell...price dives.
3) Then small buyers panic and sell at heavy losses.
4) Original institution scarfs up all the stocks at such a bargain that they *still* make a profit --- AND the value later returns ==the coinage can either be melted to a new coin).

Its a bit cagey... but otherwise I'd have to agree that hoarding coins *now* sounds a bit daft because they aren't exactly like stocks.

edit: The reason they're going on about the fur is that it is specifically wolf-colored (red, white, black elements). The marten pelts were a darker color. Of course, the problem with serenade's scenario is that you can't make a fur anything out of clipped hair - it requires the skin underneath. O.o So unless Horo can reinstantiate, I'd kill the sob and give the coat a funeral pyre.

[ApostleOfGod]

Every episode gets more interesting... I guess this the main story plot / arc? The fight against Medio Company... In any case, I think that caped person is probably one of the names she mentioned while talking about her dream to Lawrence, you know, one of those people that she doesn't see no more when she wakes up. Maybe a wolf companion, that's my guess, otherwise I don't know how the Medio company would know about Horo's identity.

[FlareKnight]

You say that, but if someone offers to sell you a fur coat made from her fur/hair for a low price of $10, what would you do?
:heh:
Oh, and no killing and stealing allowed.

1. Kill the man and lose the coat. Horo's sacrifice is for naught
2. Buy the coat gladly and leave peacefully.Damn that is evil. Must destroy those who take Horo's fur, but that is nice fur....*brain shut down*

*5 minutes later* Ok I'm back. Pretty simple plan. Considering the fact that the amount of fur to make a coat would be quite large. Just a small bit for a letter is bad, this is something unforgivable. So yes the man must die:frustrated:.

Besides if I actually took something that was stolen from Horo I'd have to destroy myself, and that's immoral :). Be happy to have a coat like that if it wasn't stolen. It's only a sacrifice if it's voluntary.

[TooPurePureBoy]

The cloaked person is Chloe!! I don't know that to be true :heh: but something tells me not to trust those shifty eyes :uhoh:

[Serenity85]

Finally saw the sub^^ Once again excellent ep^^ Gotta feel for Horo, being alone for so long, having lost all th friends she knew and be forgoten, thats so harsh. She clearly isn't faking to tease Lawrence why would she set up such a plow like this. Lol gotta love those red eyes in the dark, and poor Lawrence^^ was so close to giving in^^

I was almost angry with Yuerh (or whatever his name is) the way he was just gonna ignore Horo, but it looks like he might be good guy still^^ I wonder how those goons were able to nab Horo? They seemed so scared of her when she was growling at them so its hard to believe they successfully nabbed her... or maybe...

This was semi intentional? It was clear her plan got Lawrence savely to Milone but what if she wanted to get into Midoreh? Why? Maybe to find out why they are being targeted. If what Yuerh said is true they should know a hostage of her stats would not stop them, so why target Lawrence?

The clocked person is at least female that I think most can agree on. Who, well we won't know till nexted ep in a week, but we do know Horo knows her which doesn't provide anymore useful lol. It could be one of Horo pact mates (thou I dought this unless there really is more ppl like her :twitch:) and it could still very well be Chloe cause Horo would still reconise (she must of seen her on a number of occastions while watching the wheat)

This is one of a few animes I've seen where waiting each week is so hard^^ You just wanna know what will hap.

Ya I think the Coin ark will end at 6 like ppl have said (in this thread and others^^) and the next ark will most likely be about both their pasts and what Horo actually is (cause she really isn't a GOD^^ just a really unique person you can't help but love^^)

[Vexx]

Quite a few people are speculating it is one of her wolf companions. I can't quite rule that out but it just makes less storyline sense to me at the moment. However, Chloe specifically states she considers Horo a fantasy in ep 1 ... so we'll have to see if she got enlightened by the old gentleman at the barn door at the end of that ep or something.

[FatPianoBoy]

The scheme is *supposed* to sound like the scheme often used with stocks that routinely sucks small investors dry.
1) Some analysts moan about a stock.
2) "Based on that" some institutional brokers sell a sufficient amount -- it triggers selling programs and other institutions also sell...price dives.
3) Then small buyers panic and sell at heavy losses.
4) Original institution scarfs up all the stocks at such a bargain that they *still* make a profit --- AND the value later returns ==the coinage can either be melted to a new coin).

Its a bit cagey... but otherwise I'd have to agree that hoarding coins *now* sounds a bit daft because they aren't exactly like stocks.
Something like this:

1. Spread rumors about the value increasing (opposite of the first step).
2. Get merchants to hoard their currency in expectation of profit, like Zeiren.
3. Wait for it to hit the fan. Once news gets out that the value has in fact decreased, relieve the merchants of their stockpile in exchange for a strong currency.
4. Hold onto it all until it increases in value again or an exchange system is offered, in the event that currency goes extinct.

The ones hoping to make a profit aren't holding anything now - they're waiting for the value to bottom out before swooping in.

Imagine buying a wheelbarrow full of American money with Canadian money now, while the exchange rate is nearly 1:1. If, in a decade or so, the American currency returns to its former recent value 1:1.47, buy a wheelbarrow and a half of Canadian money. Buy low, sell high.


I find it interesting that Chloe was talking to Lawrence about a good scheme only shortly before all this surfaced ;)

[Echoes]

That certainly was excellent. Even more-so than I had expected.

Horo never ceases to amaze me. I was honestly surprised when she revealed her vulnerability and loneliness. I think they're doing a great job portraying a personality that has been molded over several hundred years, Horo has more sides to her than a dodecahedron.

[FlareKnight]

Quite a few people are speculating it is one of her wolf companions. I can't quite rule that out but it just makes less storyline sense to me at the moment. However, Chloe specifically states she considers Horo a fantasy in ep 1 ... so we'll have to see if she got enlightened by the old gentleman at the barn door at the end of that ep or something.Yeah having one of Horo's comrades show up out of the blue doesn't feel right to me. Besides I doubt they would organize something for her capture, unless they had worse experiences than she did over the years.

Does seem like Chloe may be part of this scheme. But uncertain about the Horo connection since as you say she wasn't exactly the one most believing in her. Even sneaking out when she was supposed to be in that barn. She should have plenty of knowledge about Horo, but information about her change of mind about her existence would need explaining.

Really can't help but want to see next week's episode right now.

[Ultenth]

By the way, just thought I'd mention, if you post something that is a spoiler, please put notes as to what it is in regards to so people can figure out if they should click it or not. I guess I should just stop reading this forums in general though, I've already had tons of stuff spoiled about this show that I'm pretty upset about, by people who have read the manga/novel and don't use spoiler tags properly (and a couple times not using them at all).

[Masanori Ota]

By the way, just thought I'd mention, if you post something that is a spoiler, please put notes as to what it is in regards to so people can figure out if they should click it or not. I guess I should just stop reading this forums in general though, I've already had tons of stuff spoiled about this show that I'm pretty upset about, by people who have read the manga/novel and don't use spoiler tags properly (and a couple times not using them at all).
Oops, sorry dood. I know what you mean. We just get caught up in the excitement, that's all. :upset:

[Darklightz]

That was a great episode.

I'm not surprised the Milone company refused to help Horo, they probably still won't even after hearing she's the Horo of legends. After all they're a foreign company who will probably be disliked by many local merchants if the Medioh company has anything to say about it.

As for Horo getting nabbed, remember that this is DBZ or anythign like that. She may be a sort of protector wolf-god, but it's not like she had a wide range of magical powers. So she'll definitely need Lawrence to get her out of this jam. And I"m pretty sure it's Chloe that showed up at the end. Who else would Horo recognize and be involved in a merchant company?

[FlareKnight]

As for Horo getting nabbed, remember that this is DBZ or anythign like that. She may be a sort of protector wolf-god, but it's not like she had a wide range of magical powers. So she'll definitely need Lawrence to get her out of this jam. And I"m pretty sure it's Chloe that showed up at the end. Who else would Horo recognize and be involved in a merchant company?I don't think DBZ would be related. But remember she has some wheat with her. All she needs to do is eat some and she can take those guys apart. Though perhaps she doesn't want to use any if she can help it. Best would be Lawrence coming to get her out, but if she has to take things into her own hands she may decide to.

[Holy Knight]

For looking like such a mischievous person, Horo's ears are a total give away. Thats cute.

[suguru]

I find it interesting that Chloe was talking to Lawrence about a good scheme only shortly before all this surfaced ;)

That's a good point, I'd forgotten about that...I guess if it does turn out Chloe's the mystery person at the end of ep 4 it shouldn't be a surprise...

This is just one of those episodes that makes me glad to be an anime fan--Horo's vulnerable side just makes her even more endearing, and Lawrence's reaction gives him bonus points too.

That whole scene with Lawrence and Horo at the inn, where he gives her the drawing of his dream store to use as a Kleenex, was just really well done--it really felt like a big milestone in their relationship. I can just picture ten years later, Lawrence sitting around the fireplace with a little boy and little girl with wolf ears, and him telling them about handing Horo the picture of the store and saying that was the moment, even though he didn't really realize it at the time, that he decided to spend the rest of his life with their mom. And then he adds some wisecrack about how he didn't realize how truly frightening she could be back then, and Horo smacks him in the back of the head and tells him to go get more firewood from the backyard :D

[Vexx]

aye, I'm trying very hard not to spoil anything and try to label *speculation* clearly as such. If you see something you think is a spoiler that should be tagged - report it immediately so at least the damage can be contained. :(

[FlareKnight]

Know it must be tough to not spoil things. Usually I'm in the dark so it's pretty easy to not say anything. Though one must be vigilant and not just click a spoiler tag on reflex before taking note about what is in there. Since you just know that once you read it you'll never forget no matter how much you try (which of course makes you think about what your trying not to think about....).

A very nice scene of the future suguru. Just leaves you with a smile thinking about it. :)

[tebahpla]

That's a good point, I'd forgotten about that...I guess if it does turn out Chloe's the mystery person at the end of ep 4 it shouldn't be a surprise...

This is just one of those episodes that makes me glad to be an anime fan--Horo's vulnerable side just makes her even more endearing, and Lawrence's reaction gives him bonus points too.

That whole scene with Lawrence and Horo at the inn, where he gives her the drawing of his dream store to use as a Kleenex, was just really well done--it really felt like a big milestone in their relationship. I can just picture ten years later, Lawrence sitting around the fireplace with a little boy and little girl with wolf ears, and him telling them about handing Horo the picture of the store and saying that was the moment, even though he didn't really realize it at the time, that he decided to spend the rest of his life with their mom. And then he adds some wisecrack about how he didn't realize how truly frightening she could be back then, and Horo smacks him in the back of the head and tells him to go get more firewood from the backyard :D

either lawrence or horo would end up gainax'd by the end of the series. this wouldnt end awesome if that isnt happening. bittersweet ends are very bitter. so i don't think 10 years later would be imaginable i can just see it coming :(

[Nenkitsune]

Overall and excellent mix of romance and action in this one. It was entertaining to watch Lawrence fumbling his way over to bed. Initially I expected him to 'become disoriented' and end up going to her bed, but the actual result speaks volumes for Horo.

totally agreed. When he was fumbling around (like i tend to do..i've even fallen over a table....)
i thought he'd end up with horo in HER bed, not end up in HIS bed with her lol.

Still, with every episode I watch I'm always amazed at how beautiful this show looks. the animation quality is always so pretty. whenever i look at shows, i see images that are decent, and ones that look great as stills, however, every frame of spice and wolf is so beautifully done that any one frame would make a great still.

I'm really interested to see who showed up at the end of the episode.

[grey_moon]

Brilliant series...

My thoughts on the hooded person tie in


If it is Chole could Horo have been her cunning business deal? Could she have found a way to capture Horo and force her to do what she wanted, hence Horo escaping on the wagon?


Noooooooooo cliff hanger, I am in despair!

[vivacioussky]

Is it just me or was Horo actually, really *leading* Lawrence on in the first half?!o_O

I do wonder who the person is at the end. A new character I reckon. Somewhere, I read it would be Chloe, but where did she get the money to hire the guys? :confused:

Seeing the ep 5 title, I probably reckon it would be a new character... maybe from Horo's past... or maybe not. Her ending line of "You!"could also be "Who the hell are you?!"

Still though, so far so good. And I personally feel Lawrence shouldnt have told Glasses about Horo's true identity.

[maverickudo]

horo x law got major COCKBLOCKED lol

heck it wasn't bad enough she was naked for 2 straight episodes...geez..

dude just want his store and some mutton -nudge nudge-

i like the show really. horo hands down coolest female character to satiate our hungry otakuness after a lot of finished season animes were over. new era i suppose. vote HORO

-yeah who read the manga for spice x wolf? is the hooded person Chloe?

[Anh_Minh]

At a guess, from the "You!", it should be either Chloe or one of Horo's packmates. From next ep's title, I'd guess Chloe.

[Sinestra]

Im posting a little later than usual because i wanted to watch the episode a couple of times and gather my thoughts. First let me say I gave episode 4 a perfect 10 its been a while since i did that;)

One of the best written and entertaining episodes i have watch in a while. The interaction between Horo and Lawrence are done so perfectly i dont feel like im watching animated characters. Their distinct personalties as well as their way of speaking with one another is just powering and for me drives the bases of Spice and Wolf.

Episode allowed us to see another side to Horo. The scene with her discussing how she does not want to be alone and her companions made shed a few tears. From the beginning we thought she was a god, which i found interesting because she sure does not act like one. It seem even Horo has a finite existence as well her companions. Ami Koshimizu has done a fantastic job bringing Horo's personality to life. Her range and emotion came pouring through as tears poured down Horo's face. That scene was especially powerful for me because of how it was described. Waking up and everyone you care about is gone and your alone. Being a Wolf a pack animal that must be a fate worse than death for Horo. You would think after 500 years she would have run into someone from her pack but it has not occurred. Also, this brings up the question of Horo's pack in general. whether her pack was just gifted with longevity and special powers or are their other packs who possess the same characteristics i hope we learn.

Lawrence once again show his many sides as well and a new one or should i say a more empowering one in his affection for Horo. I whole hearted believe that Lawrence cares for Horo in romantic sense. After traveling together, eating together, sharing experiences and sharing rooms it easy to see how it happened. I believe that it would take a special someone like Horo to make Lawrence fall for her. Watching how tender Lawrence was with her it was like they have been close for ages. His speech and mannerism were perfect for the scene and he comforted Horo very effectively. Seeing these vulnerable sides of the characters is what makes or breaks a series of this type for me. Especially with Horo its very easy to have been energetic and playful all the time but does she have the range and experience to portray all emotion. Although Lawrence was a bit clumsy the looks they showed each other were that of 2 people not only with mutual respect but 2 people who do care for one another. Lawrence got a level up from me for how he pulled Horo into his arms and hugged her. The scene later with them in the bed i believe the mood was there for Lawrence and his feeling compounded on top of one another and led to him doing what would come natural if we like someone. IMO Horo pulled him down purposely only to let him know the bad guys were outside i dont think there was anything sexual about it (at that time) that doesnt mean she was not feeling or thinking something else. After all she is Horo the wise and im sure it wasnt hard to notice Lawrences feelings. Plus it looks like Horo might had a relationship in the past with her first friend but we might be leaning to much into it he really could have just been her friend, but there might have been more to it. Hopefully later down the road Horo goes into more detail about him.

Horo's feelings for Lawrence become a little noticeable during the chase. Going back to the Inn scene Horo was upset since Lawrence said he wanted to open his own store if this deal paid off. Horo said "I cant make you come with me can I?" Horo could have very easily have found another travel companion or went alone. But she wanted to go with Lawrence and i think no other person would do besides Lawrence. Now back to the escape scene with them hiding in the corner . Horo's speech and mannerisms once again looked more romantic. With her head close to Lawrences chest and of course Lawrence pleading with her not go. Horo's last phrase was perfect and i took this seriously seeing how long she has lived, she said "I believe in you to come" thats not something you just say and you could tell in her voice that she meant it. Do i think what Horo feels is love no not at this point but there is some type of romantic feeling there and the same Lawrence.

I agree that the hooded person in episode 5 will either be Chole because it would be a great opportunity to introduce her as either a rival or the opposition. Also, she stated she had some really big deal she was in on and wanted Lawrence to come. Its seems quite the coincidence that she mentioned the deal and now we knee deep in a coin fraud operation. But, the theory on one of Horo's pack being there is good too it would be a nice surprise to see another wolf. Either option would lead to a nice development and set up the next 3 or so episodes and we could find out how they knew Horo was wolf but if the hood person in question is also a wolf it would make sense.

Now i await the rescue of Horo and to see if Lawrence has any GAR in his blood.

[Masanori Ota]

-yeah who read the manga for spice x wolf? is the hooded person Chloe?
Chloe isn't in the manga or novels. She's an anime-only character.


Also, speculation (not spoilers) on what'll happen if Chloe is involved with this deal: she's get into an arguement with Lawrence and perhaps help Horo and Lawrence escape. There's got to be a reason Chloe is in the ED...

OH SHIT! In the ED Chloe is looking up into the sky while silver coins fall down the screen! Silver coins!

[Souten no Seigyoku]

Im confused as to whether theyre going The Inquisition route or the god-worship route in this anime. Is the church pro-Horo or anti-Horo? In episode 3 she speaks as if they worship her. In episode 4 the letter insinuates the church finding out about her would be a bad thing.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Church finding Horo would most probably be bad. Remember the town at the beginning of Episode 1? They weren't too pleased that Pasroe continued to practise a pagan ritual.

[Vexx]

Im confused as to whether theyre going The Inquisition route or the god-worship route in this anime. Is the church pro-Horo or anti-Horo? In episode 3 she speaks as if they worship her. In episode 4 the letter insinuates the church finding out about her would be a bad thing.

The Church is dominating the land and pushing the "old beliefs" aside. Horo is very definitely an "old belief" and people who follow the Church would have no sympathy for her. As Horo dances around the idea - *she* doesn't think of herself as a "god" but just someone who had a deal with the village she bound herself to. Nonetheless, the Church perceives *any* competition as "evil".

The people Horo refers to are the commoners who still think of her at all (either kindly or as an excuse for a festival).

So you have a conflict (whether or not one side wants it). If the Church got a hold of Horo the series would take an incredibly nasty turn.

The motives of her captors are still unclear at this point, but they've USED the Church as a threat to try and lure Lawrence in - apparently more interested in him than anything else. Lawrence is just lucky that the company he's aligned with isn't totally cold-hearted (just protecting their own interests).... at least "glasses guy" as people call him seems to sympathize enough to want to provide some advice :)

[Irenicus]

I just noticed something: the merchant who Horo conned did realize the trick later! Not only that, he realized it's not Lawrence, but her. He was smiling slightly and looking at her when he had a conversation with Lawrence again. She smiled back while hiding her eyes as always.

I guess he appreciated the cleverness much more than he felt miffed at being conned. Nice people, those merchants, as long as you don't get in the way of their profits. :heh:

OH SHIT! In the ED Chloe is looking up into the sky while silver coins fall down the screen! Silver coins!
Nice catch! :)

I'm betting my imaginary Thoreni that this "You!" is totally Chloe. It just makes sense from too many perspectives: drama, plot, and ED. Now, the mystery remains (though not for novel and manga readers I suppose), who is the shepherd girl?

Im confused as to whether theyre going The Inquisition route or the god-worship route in this anime. Is the church pro-Horo or anti-Horo? In episode 3 she speaks as if they worship her. In episode 4 the letter insinuates the church finding out about her would be a bad thing.
The Church is about the One True God; i.e. competing nature spirits risk being burned at the stake. Villagers stuck in the old ways are considered as potential converts.

Kind of like the situation in Saxony in Charlemagne's time, or pagan Prussia-Lithuania during the era of the Teutonic knights.

They imply that the Church's extremist stance (or its growth in power and influence, for that matter) is something relatively new by Horo's standard, since she complained about it a few episodes back how times have changed.

[Vexx]

Money spent on the Horo-festival *could* have been given to the Church. People are easy to manipulate if there's no competing "world-views". Irenicus points out two of thousands of examples over the last few thousand years....

Historically, I suppose you could blame the Roman Empire for taking a minor pleasant little religion and reformulating it to meet the needs of the Empire.

[Southern Cross]

Historically, I suppose you could blame the Roman Empire for taking a minor pleasant little religion and reformulating it to meet the needs of the Empire.

Isn't that how Christmas "should" be celebrated in December according to Roman Catholics? :heh:


Watching the first episode about a week ago and watching this and the last two over the past few hours, I'm really enjoying this anime. Despite the "supernatural" element of the wolf, the views and issues brought out by the anime seem very earthly in essence, and it's quite refreshing having a nice, down-to-earth experience once in a while.

Needless to say, I did expect the company behind the little scheme to take some sort of action, but I did not expect them to go all out like that. One could say that manipulating the system of mercantilism is truly, serious business.

The situation looks pretty bad for Horo, though, since the church is also, coincidentally, serious business. I've never really enjoyed the extremist conservative side of religion, the worst possible method of judgment towards others. Anyway, I have a feeling that Horo's fate will pretty much come down to one of two things: a deus ex machina of epic proportion or Lawrence taking some sort of action on his own. Although odds seem to be pushing for the earlier, I would definitely admire Lawrence more if he tried to step up somehow, even if it just so happens that he ends up getting saved by a deus ex machina anyway. :p

Oh and regardless of anything, I've found Lawrence to be a really admirable character already, I just think that him trying to be a hero, no matter how unintelligent it'd be in the end, would show the kind of "guts" Horo said he should have more of, making him an even greater character to decide on pulling off such a stunt, no matter how bad it'd be for him.

[Sinestra]

Money spent on the Horo-festival *could* have been given to the Church. People are easy to manipulate if there's no competing "world-views". Irenicus points out two of thousands of examples over the last few thousand years....

Historically, I suppose you could blame the Roman Empire for taking a minor pleasant little religion and reformulating it to meet the needs of the Empire.

Good point people are easily manipulated especially when it comes to religion dare i say majority tend to be sheep. The period that Horo and Lawrence live in is a shinning example of when the church exerted huge influence over the European population. Its part of the era im kind of glad they make references to the one true god and paganism and the church considers it evil it just makes the over all theme seem more realistic.

Good catch Masanori Ota i went and checked it out and youre so right. Now heres my question. What type of role is Chole going to play? Is she going to play the money grubbing person who cares about her own interest only or will she have a soft spot since Lawrence is involved. I just wondering if the whole situation will somehow paint her as evil?

[Masanori Ota]

Good catch Masanori Ota i went and checked it out and youre so right. Now heres my question. What type of role is Chole going to play? Is she going to play the money grubbing person who cares about her own interest only or will she have a soft spot since Lawrence is involved. I just wondering if the whole situation will somehow paint her as evil?
Thanks. Personally, I don't think Chloe will be an "evil" character. At the moment she appears to be, but she's probably just part of this scheme for the money and to prove to Lawrence, who she admires/looks up to/has an interest in, that she's "all grown up." He can't very much ignore her now.

[spoiler removed by a moderator]

[Sinestra]

Thanks. Personally, I don't think Chloe will be an "evil" character. At the moment she appears to be, but she's probably just part of this scheme for the money and to prove to Lawrence, who she admires/looks up to/has an interest in, that she's "all grown up." He can't very much ignore her now.


I was trying to get a glimpse of the hood at the end of episode 4 because in the OP we see Chole with a hood on then she turns towards the camera. I wanted to see if i could catch some color and compare but alas i have not come to anything conclusive yet. Anyone else got anything?

[Sinestra]

Sorry about the double post but right after i went back to watch the last scene one more time. Im not sure what versions certain people have but if the scene is just about 2.5-3 seconds before Horo say "You" Freeze frame and take a look a the leg and the shoe coming through the door. You can tell its definitely female which increases the chances that the person is Chloe. Also, I happened to go back to the first episode to see if there was a shot of her shoes and sure enough same style same color.

*ponders in the corner if hes being to obsessive*:uhoh:

[FlareKnight]

Good point people are easily manipulated especially when it comes to religion dare i say majority tend to be sheep. The period that Horo and Lawrence live in is a shinning example of when the church exerted huge influence over the European population. Its part of the era im kind of glad they make references to the one true god and paganism and the church considers it evil it just makes the over all theme seem more realistic.Not a surprise that people can be manipulated by religion. For a long time people have needed it for explanations of why things happen in the world. To help things make sense and to have something bigger than themselves to believe in.

In some cases they can give hope that going through a tough life will all be worth it and rewarded down the road. For people living especially in that period it would be easy to be used.

On problem with single god religions is little room for co-existence. Especially if one believes in multiple gods. If most believe in many gods its a bit easier since everyone can be right. But if there is only one god that means they can't both be right.

Anyways have really gone on a tangent there.Good catch Masanori Ota i went and checked it out and youre so right. Now heres my question. What type of role is Chole going to play? Is she going to play the money grubbing person who cares about her own interest only or will she have a soft spot since Lawrence is involved. I just wondering if the whole situation will somehow paint her as evil?Will be curious to see Chloe's role. Do think she may try one more time to bring Lawrence into things on her side. Perhaps why she wanted him to get captured. Using Horo being taken to the church as a lure to bring him in.

Though in the end she is a merchant in a very serious situation. As Lawrence said back in the first episode big things like this are risky. If she's a major part of it and it goes bad that could mean some serious consequences for her. May want to bring Lawrence in for all the reasons she would have, but his plan and not getting herself burned would come first.

Don't think she is going to be evil. May do things we don't like, but can probably be rationalized for various reasons.

[orion]

I also think that it's probably Chloe at the end of this ep especially with the ED sequence. Those shoes and tights give her away.

It's time for Lawrence to prove who's the better merchant. I hope that she gets stomped on good! :heh:

The idiot who cut Horo's tail needs divine punishment imo. :frustrated:

[grey_moon]

The idiot who cut Horo's tail needs divine punishment imo. :frustrated:

Eternal flea infestation in the nether regions I say!

[DarthNicolas]

I also think that it's probably Chloe at the end of this ep especially with the ED sequence. Those shoes and tights give her away.

It's time for Lawrence to prove who's the better merchant. I hope that she gets stomped on good! :heh:

The idiot who cut Horo's tail needs divine punishment imo. :frustrated:

yeah I thought so too...
But what's her role,she seemed kinda innocent back then :S


And yes,the guy that cut Horo's tail must be punished in the next episode(or at least receive a punch/bite or something)

[Darkside]

Now i await the rescue of Horo and to see if Lawrence has any GAR in his blood.

LOL if Lawrence actully ended up being a GAR character i'd die laughing.

[Deathkillz]

The likelihood would be for lawrence to try to be GAR but ends up being saved by horo :heh:

"WHO THE F DO YOU THIN..." *gets shot with an arrow*

*horo transforms into the big bad wolf* O.o

[orion]

There's got to be some GAR in him. He is carrying a short sword/hunting knife.

He will probably use his wits to outmaneuver them and be rescued by Horo again.

[TinyRedLeaf]

I had thought about putting this in the World of Horo thread, but it has nothing with medieval economy nor with the show's historical setting, so I'll put it here instead.

It's a real-life example of what the Medioh Company might be attempting to do. Or rather, it's my best guess at what they are doing, and it also explains why the Milone Company had started hoarding Thoreni silver in spite of its falling value. As I've mentioned before, I think they're both trying to create a speculative bubble. It's an extremely risky scheme that can easily go very badly wrong. It can also lead to immense profit if you pull it off successfully.

The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble
(http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/hunt_bros.html)


"In 1973, the Hunt family of Texas, possibly the richest family in America at the time, decided to buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation. Gold could not be held by private citizens at that time, so the Hunts began to buy silver in enormous quantity.

"In 1979 the sons of patriarch H.L. Hunt, Nelson Bunker and William Herbert, together with some wealthy Arabs, formed a silver pool. In a short period of time they had amassed more than 200 million ounces of silver, equivalent to half the world's deliverable supply.

"When the Hunt's had begun accumulating silver back in 1973 the price was in the $1.95 / ounce range. Early in 1979, the price was about $5. Late 1979 to early 1980 the price was in the $50's, peaking at $54.

"Once the silver market was cornered, outsiders joined the chase but a combination of changed trading rules on the New York Metals Market (COMEX) and the intervention of the Federal Reserve put an end to the game. The price began to slide, culminating in a 50% one-day decline on March 27, 1980 ('Silver Thursday') as the price plummeted from $21.62 to $10.80.

"The collapse of the silver market meant countless losses for speculators. The Hunt brothers declared bankruptcy. By 1987 their liabilities had grown to nearly $2.5 billion against assets of $1.5 billion. In August of 1988 the Hunts were convicted of conspiring to manipulate the market."

[bloodyknight]

I also think that it's probably Chloe at the end of this ep especially with the ED sequence. Those shoes and tights give her away.

It's time for Lawrence to prove who's the better merchant. I hope that she gets stomped on good! :heh:

The idiot who cut Horo's tail needs divine punishment imo. :frustrated:

Yes, i do have the same sentiment as well... But why?! Why would she do that? The possibly of this looks kind of slim... For money? Unlikely... For love? Who knows... for hatred... That would be a damn surprise... It will need a good reason behind that...

yeah I thought so too...
But what's her role,she seemed kinda innocent back then :S


And yes,the guy that cut Horo's tail must be punished in the next episode(or at least receive a punch/bite or something)

I guess he might probably be bitten to death by Horo if she is released... of course at the absence of Lawrence... She does not want to go on the trip back home lonely, if i am not wrong... Who knows?!

There's got to be some GAR in him. He is carrying a short sword/hunting knife.

He will probably use his wits to outmaneuver them and be rescued by Horo again.

Well, this has happened quite often... from 140/160 silver coins to 210 silver coins... I'll be damned!!! Anyone who is with her might be super rich... she is wise... Hopefully, she is wise enough to get out of that situation safely... It is rare that anyone would live to see a wolf in human form in a lifetime...

[bloodyknight]

I had thought about putting this in the World of Horo thread, but it has nothing with medieval economy nor with the show's historical setting, so I'll put it here instead.

It's a real-life example of what the Medioh Company might be attempting to do. Or rather, it's my best guess at what they are doing, and it also explains why the Milone Company had started hoarding Thoreni silver in spite of its falling value. As I've mentioned before, I think they're both trying to create a speculative bubble. It's an extremely risky scheme that can easily go very badly wrong. It can also lead to immense profit if you pull it off successfully.

The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble
(http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/hunt_bros.html)


"In 1973, the Hunt family of Texas, possibly the richest family in America at the time, decided to buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation. Gold could not be held by private citizens at that time, so the Hunts began to buy silver in enormous quantity.

"In 1979 the sons of patriarch H.L. Hunt, Nelson Bunker and William Herbert, together with some wealthy Arabs, formed a silver pool. In a short period of time they had amassed more than 200 million ounces of silver, equivalent to half the world's deliverable supply.

"When the Hunt's had begun accumulating silver back in 1973 the price was in the $1.95 / ounce range. Early in 1979, the price was about $5. Late 1979 to early 1980 the price was in the $50's, peaking at $54.

"Once the silver market was cornered, outsiders joined the chase but a combination of changed trading rules on the New York Metals Market (COMEX) and the intervention of the Federal Reserve put an end to the game. The price began to slide, culminating in a 50% one-day decline on March 27, 1980 ('Silver Thursday') as the price plummeted from $21.62 to $10.80.

"The collapse of the silver market meant countless losses for speculators. The Hunt brothers declared bankruptcy. By 1987 their liabilities had grown to nearly $2.5 billion against assets of $1.5 billion. In August of 1988 the Hunts were convicted of conspiring to manipulate the market."


Wow!!! I have no idea man... Not a damn idea at all... This really happened in real life, dude?

[Anh_Minh]

I had thought about putting this in the World of Horo thread, but it has nothing with medieval economy nor with the show's historical setting, so I'll put it here instead.

It's a real-life example of what the Medioh Company might be attempting to do. Or rather, it's my best guess at what they are doing, and it also explains why the Milone Company had started hoarding Thoreni silver in spite of its falling value. As I've mentioned before, I think they're both trying to create a speculative bubble. It's an extremely risky scheme that can easily go very badly wrong. It can also lead to immense profit if you pull it off successfully.

The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble
(http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/hunt_bros.html)


"In 1973, the Hunt family of Texas, possibly the richest family in America at the time, decided to buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation. Gold could not be held by private citizens at that time, so the Hunts began to buy silver in enormous quantity.

"In 1979 the sons of patriarch H.L. Hunt, Nelson Bunker and William Herbert, together with some wealthy Arabs, formed a silver pool. In a short period of time they had amassed more than 200 million ounces of silver, equivalent to half the world's deliverable supply.

"When the Hunt's had begun accumulating silver back in 1973 the price was in the $1.95 / ounce range. Early in 1979, the price was about $5. Late 1979 to early 1980 the price was in the $50's, peaking at $54.

"Once the silver market was cornered, outsiders joined the chase but a combination of changed trading rules on the New York Metals Market (COMEX) and the intervention of the Federal Reserve put an end to the game. The price began to slide, culminating in a 50% one-day decline on March 27, 1980 ('Silver Thursday') as the price plummeted from $21.62 to $10.80.

"The collapse of the silver market meant countless losses for speculators. The Hunt brothers declared bankruptcy. By 1987 their liabilities had grown to nearly $2.5 billion against assets of $1.5 billion. In August of 1988 the Hunts were convicted of conspiring to manipulate the market."


But they're not hoarding silver. They're hoarding currency. If they corner the "Threnny silver market", people will just use other coins. That would only devaluate it further, to the point where it'll only be worth about its silver content or less. It would fail as a currency, and they'd be stuck with a stock of useless lumps of metal.

[Westlo]

This episode, like the others, featured wonderful interaction between Horo and Lawrence. Horo really showed a vulnerable side to Lawrence and seemed really touched by Lawrence's actions, especially giving her his blueprint for his dream shop to clean her face, Ami Koshimizu was just wonderful in that part.

Than you just have to love what happens for the next minute after the lights went out, Lawrence sure didn't waste any time but things got interrupted. Things got quite tense at this stage and I really liked Horo's "Loneliness is a fatal disease line". It's really nice to see how much the leads care for each other even at this stage of the relationship. I was also quite surprised to see that the Horo being a wolf god was revealed so quickly. If I had to guess I wouldn't have thought such a thing would've happened in the first few novels...

Anyway wonderful episode with plot developments and twists to go with the wonderful interaction between the two leads. I also really liked how that merchant took no offense to the trick Horo used to increase the price of the furs.

Really looking forward to the next episode and seeing who it is that Horo recognized and seeing how the situation is resolved. Also will be quite fun to watch Lawrence and Horo interact once things settle down after the events of this episode.

9.5/10 (rounded down to 9 for poll)

[TinyRedLeaf]

But they're not hoarding silver. They're hoarding currency. If they corner the "Threnny silver market", people will just use other coins. That would only devaluate it further, to the point where it'll only be worth about its silver content or less. It would fail as a currency, and they'd be stuck with a stock of useless lumps of metal.

That's partly true, hence the high risk, high reward factor. If either the Medioh or Milone Company carried the scheme too far, they could both go bankcrupt. But if either one of them exited at the peak of the bubble, they would hit jackpot.

Furthermore, with silver being a precious metal and the primary medium of exchange, it wouldn't become completely useless in a medieval economy, at least not the same way that paper money could become worthless today. Also, since the Medioh Company is being backed by nobles, there is the chance the nobles could melt the coins and mint a new currency if the plot goes haywire. They might even decide to make copies of whichever coin replaces Thoreni silver as the new trading currency. Lawrence was carrying a few "counterfeit" coins of his own, so it does appear to happen in the World of Horo.

But of course, this is all literally speculation on my part. The actual plot may be something else altogether simpler.

[Thentus]

Would just like to point out the post inn-room scene how Lawrence was pretty much still captivated by the moment. Talking about shopping for a comb because she has "really nice hair"(which she does) is kind of odd while running away from people trying to kill you, no?

[Vexx]

Wow!!! I have no idea man... Not a damn idea at all... This really happened in real life, dude?

<sigh> yes, it actually caught *me* for a thousand bucks or so (bought at wrong time, sold in aggravation later).

You could say most of the Enron stockholders who lost their fortunes were nailed by similar manipulation of "value".

[Anh_Minh]

That's partly true, hence the high risk, high reward factor. If either the Medioh or Milone Company carried the scheme too far, they could both go bankcrupt. But if either one of them exited at the peak of the bubble, they would hit jackpot.
What bubble? They're buying now while it's normal, and expecting the price to drop soon. How much sense does that make? There may be a slight increase as the conned merchants try to get some of those coins, but it'll never rise very high. (Even the conned guys don't expect the coins to rise that much in value, and if they see there's so much competition that the price of the coins rises above what they believe will be the new value, they just won't buy.)

And even after the panic subsides, the coins won't even regain their former values, because of the lowered silver content.

Furthermore, with silver being a precious metal and the primary medium of exchange, it wouldn't become completely useless in a medieval economy, at least not the same way that paper money could become worthless today. Also, since the Medioh Company is being backed by nobles, there is the chance the nobles could melt the coins and mint a new currency if the plot goes haywire. They might even decide to make copies of whichever coin replaces Thoreni silver as the new trading currency. Lawrence was carrying a few "counterfeit" coins of his own, so it does appear to happen in the World of Horo.
Yes. They'll be worth the metal they're made of, minus the amount of work needed to get that metal in usable form. Which is a lot less than a Thoreni silver is currently worth.

Mint a new currency? It has to backed by something. Coins are worth more than their metal because of the trust people have in them. Just minting coins won't really produce wealth.

Counterfeit coins? Sure, they could do that. But they don't need actual Thoreny silvers to do that. It'd be much cheaper to just buy the metal.

[Caiobrz]

If you add the last scene of episode 1, Chloe talk on business, and Horo's surprise, is there any DOUBT it's either Chloe or the village chief? I would say Chloe since it will create more impact.

And since most anime OP/ED give away some parts of the plot:

because in the OP we see Chole with a hood on

this settles the case. Also, if it's not her, when will she ever get to the spotlight anyway?

BTW:

I read it would be Chloe, but where did she get the money to hire the guys?

She does not need to be the boss, just a pawn. Who said she need any money to be part of all that? after all, she is there to EARN money =p

Is she going to play the money grubbing person who cares about her own interest only or will she have a soft spot since Lawrence is involved.

From the first episode I get the impression Chloe is very interested in Lawrence, and if you add the fact that Lawrence by now is totall hooked on Horo, it's not hard to see Chloe as the vilain because of jealous ... and some money grubbing reasons.

It's really a shame this is going to be a small title, should be 26 episodes. Some useless stuff get 26 episodes and drag all the way long, while this with lots of potential and content don't. Yet, most studios nowadays work carefully: Being this a sucess, they will surelly continue with a second season.

Funny thing comes to mind: The Character Designer for this is the same from Vandread ...

Spice and Wolf - the second stage ?

LOL

[Random Wanderer]

I don't know what the future has to offer, although I'd prefer Chloe not be an antagonist at this point.

I think those people were never there about Lawerence's business deal at all. Like Mirone company said, no matter what they did to him he'd already passed on his information: taking him out wouldn't change their reaction in the least, and he's not important enough to them for them to risk themselves in trying to free him. I think those people were there after Horo all along. They clearly knew what she was, and in far more detail than they should just from having noticed her ears and tail.

Sad Horo makes me sad. Must hug and protect...

[Chrono Helix]

The look on the Milone head guy when Lawrance told him that she was the incantation of a wolf-god of the harvest was great, makes me wonder if he was thinking "Oh my god pagan!" or "oh my god, harvest god, leads to harvest, leads to money!", prolly just "omg his friend is a god, wait what".:heh:

That whole scene with Lawrence and Horo at the inn, where he gives her the drawing of his dream store to use as a Kleenex, was just really well done--it really felt like a big milestone in their relationship. I can just picture ten years later, Lawrence sitting around the fireplace with a little boy and little girl with wolf ears, and him telling them about handing Horo the picture of the store and saying that was the moment, even though he didn't really realize it at the time, that he decided to spend the rest of his life with their mom. And then he adds some wisecrack about how he didn't realize how truly frightening she could be back then, and Horo smacks him in the back of the head and tells him to go get more firewood from the backyard :DI was thinking the exact same thing. Well, except the part about speculating about their future marriage. It's a cute imagery though.

[Baka-yuki]

Id say she gives that evil smile and walks off. Playing with people seems to be a skill for her.
I hope the villian isnt Chloe at this point. Maybe some double backstabing plot to keep Horo and Lawrence off guard untill its too late? Doubt it, but hopefull.
And I lagged at enter, so this episode scored an 8 for me, not a 1

[Vexx]

At least we won't have to feed you to the wolves :)

[JediNight]

I'd say about Chloe being the woman in the hood: I think most of us are HOPING it's not her, because that would mean they are significantly changing the story from the original novels. Since she was never in the novels, only added in the anime.

[Vexx]

Its not a "significant" change if they are simply replacing a male character with Chloe to charge up the plot a bit.
But I'll wait til the sub comes out before babbling more about it.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

As long as the storyline basically stays the same I'll be happy.

[Dorfl]

I'll give it 2 more episodes before quitting, but I'm really bored. =_=

[chiss]

I really don't know where i should be posting this, but....

I downloaded all 13 episodes via torrent and speaking only English i am relying on subtitles.

The first 3 episodes seemed okay. However when i hit episode 4, the subtitles were obviously lacking... 20 seconds of talking was being translated into 5 words.

Sometimes people would talk and it wouldnt even show a subtitle, and i had to guess what was said by the other characters reaction.

I was wondering if there's another copy of the Wolf and Spice that i could download that has very good subtitles? Or if there is an official DVD release coming soon which i could buy, that has English subs.


Thank you!

[Vexx]

Errrrr, Animesuki got a C&D to remove torrents, so as I interpret the rules I can't publish a recommendation for fansub or its location in this thread.
Always be sure and browse a forum or thread to see if the series has been C&D'd or licensed. Asking for torrents of licensed material can get one banned (as well as publishing locations) so you might want to edit your post a bit?

Check the sticky notes periodically... since Kadokawa issued the C&D, its quite likely they are marketing it around for R1 distribution.

But as to your problem:
1) Sometimes.... even though something happens like you describe -- it is nonetheless a good translation because the languages simply don't track 1:1 especially if there are implicit references, proverbs, or such being employed.

2) It could also be a technical problem -- do you have the latest CCCP or similar codec packs? What player are you using? Sometimes things are out of sync for those reasons and subtitles even get dropped.

3) They could actually be corrupted or technically flawed ... as I recall only one of the subbers that actually finished the series did a consistent job throughout.

Welcome to the forums, read the rules ... and you'll need to read the signature rules --- the ladies are pretty but way too large vertically.

[RayzorFang]

I was just re-watching (marathoning) the series and the symbolism of the drawing of Lawrence's ideal future before he met Horo just made sense to me(yea i was too caught up in the sadness to pay attention properly) and the way Horo shows she wants to keep this "sheep" by utterly destroying the drawing as if she wanted to say 'you have to come with me, don't open a store'.
Too bad this wasn't like the amber melancholy and we don't get to hear Horo's thoughts in that scene it would be very interesting.

[Lightly_Toasted]

I was just re-watching (marathoning) the series and the symbolism of the drawing of Lawrence's ideal future before he met Horo just made sense to me(yea i was too caught up in the sadness to pay attention properly) and the way Horo shows she wants to keep this "sheep" by utterly destroying the drawing as if she wanted to say 'you have to come with me, don't open a store'.
Too bad this wasn't like the amber melancholy and we don't get to hear Horo's thoughts in that scene it would be very interesting.


I really do not think Horo is that mean or vicious. Sure she is ending Lawrence's ideal dream for the moment, but she is opening up a whole new door of possibilities for Lawrence. Horo was genuinely sad, and this scene was put in there to show that Horo, despite being a "Deity" still has animal/human like qualities. (Yes, most animals can feel loneliness.)

Remember, it was Lawrence who offered the drawing. He could have just as easily gotten her some sort of Handkerchief(which would save money too) but he instead offered up his drawing and in essence, postponed his dream, to show his dedication to Horo and his promise. Another Reason why she considers him such a softy, as most males she has met were probably not as understanding of her feelings.

And remember, though that is his ideal dream at the time, he is still young(especially by Horo's Standards) So he still may change what wants to really do in the future. Horo is inspiring him to lead a new life, and not folow in the path of the typical "successful merchant."

[RayzorFang]

You don't have to tell me animals feel loneliness, my neighbor's dog howls whenever it hears a siren, sounds very lonely.
Yea sorry if it seemed like i was saying she was doing this purely to be mean or just for herself since it was pretty obvious it wasn't when she said " i can't force you to come with me can i?"
I just wanted to say that the way she used his drawing showed how much she really wants to stay with Lawrence and keenly shows her loneliness.

I'm sure Lawrence understood how she felt cause he has also been lonely and the point of the store is to make friends, this links back to what Horo was reminiscing the night before about the Pasroe villager that was her friend. In that scene Lawrence 'abandoned' as mentioned in the light novel probably because he did not have a friend as close to him that the Pasroe villager seemed to be to Horo. So this episode in my opinion is to allow both characters to heal(can't think of a better word atm, headache) their loneliness through each other's company and solidify a strong, mutual, caring bond between the two characters that i will enjoy watching develop in the next season, until then i wait with bated breath.

[Blank-Mage]

I loved the scene, but in retrospect, the music wasn't very fitting.

[Vexx]

To a traveling merchant - a store is a way to settle down and actually be an interesting prospect for a girl. Road travel in the middle ages was pretty dangerous for women and children and Lawrence just views it as unfair to even court someone at the present.

Horo is a way to short circuit that whole tower of logic blocks. She provides companionship while they travel -- he provides the same in return. The long term prospects are more uncertain... but for now, on the road, it works.

[ZingFreelancer]

Dunno if this is old topic, didnt read the whole thread, just this page.
But...

In ep 4 of anime, at 10:10 she speaks of a few names.

Yue, Intin, Paro, Myuli.
I wonder what kind of relation Horo have to this names and does this name belong to humans or wolfs?
Because she after that she says "We can live for hundreds of years" NOTE: Not I can live for hundreds of years.
Next line:
"Thats why... thats why I went on a journey. I believed we would definitely meet again."

Any knowledge on this topic?

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Dunno if this is old topic, didnt read the whole thread, just this page.
But...

In ep 4 of anime, at 10:10 she speaks of a few names.

Yue, Intin, Paro, Myuli.
I wonder what kind of relation Horo have to this names and does this name belong to humans or wolfs?
Because she after that she says "We can live for hundreds of years" NOTE: Not I can live for hundreds of years.
Next line:
"Thats why... thats why I went on a journey. I believed we would definitely meet again."

Any knowledge on this topic?

I assume she was refering to wolves, however someone who has read the novels probably have better knowledge on this subject. That is if anything else is mentioned about those names in the novels. Its even possible that those could have been names only put in the anime dialogue.

[salv87]

haven't read that part also, but it seems that she is talking about her "wolf" pack..

Although it's hard to call Horo with a simple "wolf".. so I think that her "pack"would be of the same sort.. not simple wolf, but human-wolf beings, be they dieties or smth of the sort.

[LKK]

I always thought they were her fellow wolf beings in her homeland. I suppose they could even be her siblings.

[Vexx]

The vague impression is that one day she woke up and all were gone ... or they got separated during some unpleasantness and she can't find them anymore. They are names of her "wolf pack" comrades -- others like her.

The event has an air of her being the only survivor of some calamity to her tribe/pack and her not being able to really face that.

[RayzorFang]

If we refer to the 1st volume chapter 4(14%done argh!!!) translation on B-T she mentions that she was respected as a sage wolf(better than wise wolf in this context) by her pack and by the wolves in Yoitsu and that even among the sage wolves there was a certain "wall" that prevented her from having a proper friend.

Quoted from B-T: "But, I really hate it like this. Although I can be considered an elder among the wolves, and have pretty good relationships with some of them, I still feel there is always a barrier in the middle. I also do not wish to bear with these kind of relations, so I left the forest. As for the purpose for leaving......"

We'll have to wait for the rest of chapter 4 from Barbs before we can find out whether the names were anime only but it's certain that she did have wolf acquaintances and those four were probably friends or just in her pack; since she said 'we can live for hundreds of years' i assume they are like her, big wolves that have human forms but she is a sage wolf so she's much smarter than they are(even though she and her pack all ate chilli hahaha)

She was comforted by Lawrence in episode 2 about her homeland not being changed so i'm guessing she still wants to believe her pack is still in Yoitsu however the anime skews a bit differently from the manga and light novels as the latter had Horo saying that although she wanted to return home she also wanted to go exploring and experience new things first whereas the anime just seems to have Horo wanting to pair up with Lawrence as he makes his trading route to the north. I think in the manga or light novel there was some thought dialogue of Lawrence when Horo first mentioned Yoitsu about the town there having "fallen" or gone or something maybe it was a bad translation that was meant to be ancient or old.

That's a mouthful but i haven't been as active on these forums as i'd like to in the past weeks so short bursts will have to do.

[Vexx]

ah.. seems i'm mixing anime impressions and novel impression together... bleh.

[salv87]

hmm.. maybe that shows that the anime was made quite nicely in comparison to the novels.

[ZingFreelancer]

Some interesting thoughts, going to give a go on first novel when I feel for it...
I get in sort of melancholy state after reading/watching spice and wolf...

[Blank-Mage]

Some interesting thoughts, going to give a go on first novel when I feel for it...
I get in sort of melancholy state after reading/watching spice and wolf...

Just the opening theme/animation will do that, right? Although it seems to me the books are actually a bit lighter hearted, but then again, maybe I just haven't gotten far enough...

[RayzorFang]

Yea, the opening song with and without the animation used to always do that to me but since they ended the last ep with the same song it kinda counteracted it so now I don't feel so down when i hear it.
Even though i've only read 3 chapters i can say that the books are a great read, they provide a bit more depth on the characters and the thoughts of Lawrence, however this is at the cost of the voices especially that of Koshimizu Ami's lovely sweet Horo voice. Up to the 4th chapter in the first novel it seems like everything is slightly more light hearted than the anime however i think chapter 4 will show how different the anime is to the light novel as it contains the first emotional scene between the protagonists, eh i should just say Horo and Lawrence.

[Vexx]

sweet melancholy but yes.

The books have two "themes" going.... the light-hearted is loud but the melancholy builds very quietly.