View Full Version : Character Discussion - Jun
Pellissier
2008-01-29, 04:58
The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Jun related. Isurugi Jun is Noe's brother, often referred as Number 4 (of his basketball team).
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Note: Please don't use this for the specific episode talk, there are already threads serving that purpose.
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Kickass older brother, why else would Noe behave so cutesy around him?
Pellissier
2008-01-30, 05:25
Jun is the key preventing us, for now, from understanding more of the possible developments of the series. His interest for Noe seems to be more of that of a simple brother, though I can see him being very complicated as well. He do knows Hiromi, after all, though we don't know exactly how and why.
OT: The more I look at him (particularly at the pic above) the more he reminds me of Roy Mustang (FMA). Now considering that also Maes Hughes' voice is in the cast (Shinichiro's father), would that be a coincidence or an Easter Egg?
He does look like him. But I only sense a slight resemblance.
As for the character. I don't particularly like him, maybe it's his attitude or I've just seen that pattern too many time, I just don't like him the most out of all the characters.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
2008-01-30, 06:37
Number 4 seem to have hidden agenda.
I don't like him.
Awww, c'mon people, show him some love! Even though it appears he's a bit of a siscon, I'm sure his character isn't as bad as you guys describe it. He's the mature, responsible, silent, good big brother, what's there to hate.
@ EXEs ~ Let's just say, I don't see those characteristics complementing each other...
Deathkillz
2008-01-30, 12:42
This dude (ooh so he is called Jun XD)...he seems nice on the surface but I bet he hasa dark side for drama's sakes. And because we know how this series like to throw dark sides into the mix, there is a high chance he is a whack-o :eyespin:
billbrown
2008-01-31, 00:03
Well, Jun is the final cog in getting the machine running. Noe, Hiromi and Shin will react according to his actions.
Discovering Jun's angle will be an interesting experience. He's obviously a bit attracted to his sister(perhaps they aren't blood related?), but his request at the end of episode four throws that for a intriguing loop. What's he trying to set up here? Noe certainly doesn't need his help to put moves on Shin, so I don't see her requesting it.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
2008-01-31, 00:39
Awww, c'mon people, show him some love! Even though it appears he's a bit of a siscon, I'm sure his character isn't as bad as you guys describe it. He's the mature, responsible, silent, good big brother, what's there to hate.
Sorry,it's hard to show him love when he has the same smirking look on his face as Roy Mustang.
He seems to me the kind of guy with big sister complex(i have experience in this).I don't think he would "hand"over Noe that easily to Shin.Him asking Shin for that favour clearly surprises me but at the same time i sense something malicious from him.
If he really love Noe other than what he should,he may try to bring them together first and then pull some strings behind their back which left Noe disappointed and sad.Then he will come to her and play the "big brother is here" act and comfort her.Then Noe will think he is the best and yeah happy ending for him.He owns Noe forever.
I might speculate too far,but this is the kind of impression Number 4 is giving me right now
Irenicus
2008-01-31, 01:50
I might speculate too far,but this is the kind of impression Number 4 is giving me right now
Ouch, that's harsh. >_<
Me, I like him. He riles up Shinichiro by that attitude of his. It's fun for me to watch that scene at the end of episode 4; I'd like to see that more.
I'd hate him if he starts dating Hiromi though. :heh:
This thread should be titled Character Discussion - Jun (Number 4)
It had to be done.
Pellissier
2008-01-31, 08:45
This thread should be titled Character Discussion - Jun (Number 4)
It had to be done.
It's not that I haven't thought about it. It depends on where the anime is headed, if in the next couple episodes he'll still constantly be addressed as number 4, I'll change the title. Otherwise it'll stay as it is.
Anyway, once someone enters the thread, it is well specified above who we're talking about, I think :)
Kaoru Chujo
2008-02-07, 00:26
I don't dislike Jun, but he does seem weird. His angry reaction to grandma and Noe talking about tears was striking. The little hitch when he was doing up Noe's helmet looked like he wanted to caress her throat. His cavalier and domineering manner is interesting. His easy agreement to trade Noe for Hiromi (in a sense) made it seem as if he didn't care about other people that much. Except for Noe.
In any case, it will certainly be interesting to learn more about him, as I guess we will in ep6. In the preview, it looks as if he is caressing Hiromi's hair, much to her shock.
w00tness
2008-02-07, 11:14
Jun and Hiromi are in similar cirmcumstances. Both like someone, both feel that they should not like them, and both lie to themselves about their own feelings. The result is Hiromi saying that she loves number 4 when she doesnt even know him, and Jun asking Shin to go out with his sister (he probably convinced himself that "this is for the best, would make her happy, etc"). Parallels can be drawn to Aiko, where she decides to get closer to Shin through Nobuse. There was a point in the past when Aiko was content to just be closer to Shin, and not expect Shin to return her feelings (the episode where she talks about understanding why Hiromi wanted to be Noe's friend). Granted, it appears now that Aiko isnt happy being best buddies anymore, and wants to get closer still (possibly because she feels that she has hope now that Shin told her that Hiromi told him that she likes Jun), but before that, she was willing to "just get closer". Perhaps in the past, she decided that the best she could do was just to get closer to Shin, and so she hooked up with Nobuse even though she doesnt like him, because "it was for the best".
I like Hiromi, Aiko, Jun and especially Shins mom because they seem very human to me, with good points and flaws that do not seem unnatural. I dont really like Noe because shes just weird, and Shin because he's too dense (well, harem male leads tend to have to be dense, or else there wont be a story), and everyone else seems to be minor characters.
Hmm seems like I didnt cover too much Jun in a thread for Jun, but meh, that little bit is my 2 cents.
sapphire-pyro
2008-02-10, 07:29
I love Jun! xD For me, he's the most good-looking guy in this series *_* Squeeee!
I love Jun's cool and evil side xD And his hair!!!! It's somewhat similar to Firo's (fom baccano) OMG!!! xD And then his eyes and hair color are resemble Roy from FMA. Double the love xD Firo + Roy = WIN! xD Hehe (only in looks though, personality's too different ^^;)
Oh I like male characters with sis complexes xD And Jun's one of them xD Sibling love FTW! xD Jun and Noe rock so much, I don't care much if it becomes incest. I like them as individuals, as siblings, and even as partners xD
I think it has been clearly hinted in some episodes that he may like her romantically. I just wish he won't be the perverted type ;_; I will change my mind about him if he has indeed become a perverted bastard ;_;
Because of the possibility that he'll turn into a not-so-likable character, I am afraid and excited at the same time on seeing episode 7 *_x
But so far, Jun's freakin' lovable! YAY! xD
w00tness
2008-02-11, 17:21
lovable? O_O
he's selfish and doesnt care about anyone or if he hurts anyone as long as he gets what he wants (happiness for Noe)
though granted, that part of him is lovable.
I must say, after episode 06 i have a lot more respect for Jun, and just don't see him as a woman user. How he looks after Noe in his own strange way, i really do love that.
Darklightz
2008-02-12, 13:53
There's something I don't like the way about the guy. The way he just casually "haggled" to make Shin go out with Noe, to the way he asked Hiromi out in such an emotionless manner with his creepy smile.
What I"m curious is what he will do if Shin decides not to go out with Noe after all.
Kaoru Chujo
2008-02-13, 16:23
I found sapphire-pyro's post really refreshing, I mean, let's get down to cases: the guy is hot. That hotness certainly bowled Hiromi over in ep6, anyway.Certainly, he is being presented as unfeeling toward anyone but Noe and manipulative of everyone including her. But his caring for her makes up for a lot, in my opinion.
He is so sharp, too, seeing immediately that Hiromi cared for Shin, and moving to try to do something about it by imposing his physical presence on her. I see hints that he begins to realize that her situation resembles his in some way. He just doesn't realize how closely.
To say he's "selfish" is only partly true, since his selfishness seems largely to be a matter of selflessly trying to make Noe's life better.
I have a feeling that he is a character who is being shown as worse than he is so that he can be shown as a better guy later. We'll see.
DanielSong39
2008-02-13, 16:24
I think Jun is getting a bad rap because he gets in the way of Shin/Hiromi.
Personally I think he's a better fit for Hiromi.
Agreed, most people here seem to be big fans of a the ol' Cinderella ending.
Maybe if Jun is willing to place Hiromi at least on an equal level of importance with his sister Noe then he could be right for Hiromi. Can anyone honestly see that happening? Maybe a very tiny chance but realistically, no. Hiromi deserves someone who would give her the highest priority in his life and someone who is'nt callous about using others to achieve his objectives.
Hiromi deserves someone who would give her the highest priority in his life and someone who is'nt callous about using others to achieve his objectives.
And what precisely are these objectives?
DanielSong39
2008-02-14, 22:31
Dang right, family should come first - all this proves is that he has his priorities straight. And it's not like Jun is neglecting or using Hiromi here; he seems to be making an honest effort and he should be given the benefit of the doubt - at least for now.
Jun has at least two advantages over Shin as far as I can see; (1) he doesn't have to deal with the family situation unlike Shin, and (2) has the more direct personality that Hiromi seems to prefer. If Hiromi is willing to give him a chance, she'll see that he's the better choice and she's more likely to lead a happy life with him.
Good points. But, Hiromi has this cousin-complex for Shin. I'm afraid she'll see the good in other people when the sky falls on our heads.
DeotoxSlayer
2008-02-14, 22:42
Good points. But, Hiromi has this Brother-complex for Shin. I'm afraid she'll see the good in other people when the sky falls on our heads.
I fixed that for you;)
And what precisely are these objectives?
Most obvious one is to get Shin to go out with Noe. Any other objectives would likely be Noe-centric or in his own self-interest. There's nothing wrong with that in itself but it's how you go about it and what you are willing to do for what you want that could be the problem. Does the end justify any means necessary? That's what you wonder about as you watch Jun. Is it ok to act without consideration of others as long as you get what you want? We'll have to wait and see if Jun continues along that path, but do you think that Hiromi would actually agree with that type of thinking? If not then you have a big compatibility problem right from the start as Hiromi appears to be the considerate type.
It's fine to prioritize family but you can't say in the same breath that he would act in Hiromi's best interest if hers differ from his own or Noe's. It's up to Hiromi to decide whether she would be willing to accept someone who can't place her first.
DanielSong39
2008-02-15, 21:24
The fact that Jun can place Noe's needs above his own shows that he may be able to do the same for Hiromi. He seemed to have a good relationship with his grandmother as well, which confirms his maturity and the importance he places on family.
A huge contrast from Shin, who seems rather clueless and utterly unprepared for a relationship - and has to deal with the family soap opera to boot. While he can play a large role in Hiromi's life, his capabilities seem rather limited.
We may see a Cinderella story after all but Jun is much better equipped to be the Prince Charming. Shin to me is more suited for the childhood friend role from Ever After.
well, after watching episode 7 I have to declare that I hate this guy with a passion. I can't believe what he told Shin in this episode.
Manji Midou
2008-02-17, 06:07
well, after watching episode 7 I have to declare that I hate this guy with a passion. I can't believe what he told Shin in this episode.
l don't know whats there to hate? he did what shin asked him to do, so he expects for shin to man up and keep his promise as well, if not then the deal was off. l've come to respect him a lot more after this episode, he really is looking out for his sister.
l don't know whats there to hate? he did what shin asked him to do, so he expects for shin to man up and keep his promise as well, if not then the deal was off. l've come to respect him a lot more after this episode, he really is looking out for his sister.
Shin never agreed to it, he told him that in episode 7. Of course now Shin is stuck with this because if he doesn't go out with Noe, Jun will break up with hiromi, something that hiromi didn't wanted in the first place.
Manji Midou
2008-02-17, 12:58
Shin never agreed to it, he told him that in episode 7. Of course now Shin is stuck with this because if he doesn't go out with Noe, Jun will break up with hiromi, something that hiromi didn't wanted in the first place.
Well, there you then, shin might not had agreed on anything but at the same time he is at fault. Jun only came to him for Noe, shin was the one responsible for the other part of the deal, by him telling jun that if he had to date noe then in return jun had to date hiromi that would seem like shin was agreeing, even though it was only a bluff on shin's part to scare jun away. l'm tired of hiromi bein portrayed as a victim for about everyhing that happens to her, hiromi could had easily turned down jun but she rather keep on living a lie, for all shin knew that's probably what he thought she wanted from how she kept going about him. jun is doing this all for his sister, l don't see how you can hate someone like that...
Well, there you then, shin might not had agreed on anything but at the same time he is at fault. Jun only came to him for Noe, shin was the one responsible for the other part of the deal, by him telling jun that if he had to date noe then in return jun had to date hiromi that would seem like shin was agreeing, even though it was only a bluff on shin's part to scare jun away. l'm tired of hiromi bein portrayed as a victim for about everyhing that happens to her, hiromi could had easily turned down jun but she rather keep on living a lie, for all shin knew that's probably what he thought she wanted from how she kept going about him. jun is doing this all for his sister, l don't see how you can hate someone like that...
well, i have to admit that what Jun is doing with Shin is very similar to what Shin did with Aiko, but in a less direct manner. Still, Jun is conciously blackmailing Shin, while what shin did to Aiko with nobuse and then to hiromi was less of a malicious act. It was more hiromi's fault for lying. Still, Shin is now lying about being in love with Noe! The difference between Shin and Jun is that he is involving an innocent person to tryu to make his sister happy. This never work, anything force never bring happiness. I hope Noe really get her Tears back so Jun learn a lesson about meddling, much like what Shin is going to learn next week by losing his best friend[Aiko].
Manji Midou
2008-02-17, 14:08
well, i have to admit that what Jun is doing with Shin is very similar to what Shin did with Aiko, but in a less direct manner. Still, Jun is conciously blackmailing Shin, while what shin did to Aiko with nobuse and then to hiromi was less of a malicious act. It was more hiromi's fault for lying. Still, Shin is now lying about being in love with Noe! The difference between Shin and Jun is that he is involving an innocent person to tryu to make his sister happy. This never work, anything force never bring happiness. I hope Noe really get her Tears back so Jun learn a lesson about meddling, much like what Shin is going to learn next week by losing his best friend[Aiko].
True, true but lets not forget that the catalyst of all these events is Hiromi and her web of lies, even though in her mind she did it for the overall good I hope it comes back to bite her in the end and she ends up as miserable as shin's mother. Shin did the same to Jun...that Jun did to him. Only difference is that Jun will do anything for his siter even go out with a lying emo victimized girl that he probably doesn't like in the first place. Shin could had easily rejected the idea but instead threw it back at jun that night about going out with hiromi because he thought thats what that lying victimized girl wanted.
I don't see it as blackmailing, I see it as Jun just tired of waiting for shin to take action, here he is dating this emo liar that he probably doesn't like and shin has yet to make a move.
DanielSong39
2008-02-17, 23:21
It was Shin who railroaded Jun into dating Hiromi and Jun complied. It was time for Shin to keep his end of the bargain.
Objectively speaking Shin comes closer to blackmailing Jun than the other way around.
Manji Midou
2008-02-18, 00:16
It was Shin who railroaded Jun into dating Hiromi and Jun complied. It was time for Shin to keep his end of the bargain.
Objectively speaking Shin comes closer to blackmailing Jun than the other way around.
Ah, see I'm not the only one who thinks so.:p
greyhawk
2008-02-18, 13:11
Ah, see I'm not the only one who thinks so.:p
Spot on. I also agree with you. Jun may be a little too obsessive with his sister (which is probably part of the reason why he feels so guilty and vows to protect her) but up till now he hasn't done anything wrong on his part, it was Shin's idea after all. The way he agreed to Shin's bargain so calmly could have misled some of you into thinking he's a cold-blooded uncaring villain of the piece, but isn't Shin doing the same thing? Jun knows exactly how Noe thinks about Shin and is clearly trying his best to make her happy, while Shin knows NOTHING about Hiromi and just brings up the stupid idea out of jealousy and immaturity, and even now he's still thinking Hiromi's fine with it, while Noe is more than happy to hear Shin confess to her. Jun's feelings for Hiromi are a mystery, but he's definitely not the malicious womanizer type of guy.
Did you notice what he did after seeing Hiromi's reaction when he told her about Shin and Noe going out? He must've realized the situation by then, or even before that at the park. But he was still nice to her, why? Maybe he just found her physically attractive, but I'm not buying such a lame explanation.:mad: Another theory is that he thinks if he was to treat her badly, his sister would have to suffer the same fate so he'd try to keep his end of the bargain first, b4 asking Shin to. There's also a possibility that Jun's starting to change the way he thinks about Hiromi and they'll end up together with everyone being happy like I previously said in the 7th ep's discussion thread. But even without that happening, Jun is still one of my favorite True Tears characters ;)
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
2008-02-19, 03:24
Number 4 seem desperate enough to actually accept Shin's request.At this point,i have been wondering:
1)How does he feel towards his sister?
2)Why did he go to such lengths just to get Shin to be with his sister?
3)How would he feel about Hiromi later on?
I can see that if Shin were to request for something more outrageous,number 4 would still agree to Shin's request.
It was Shin who railroaded Jun into dating Hiromi and Jun complied. It was time for Shin to keep his end of the bargain.
Objectively speaking Shin comes closer to blackmailing Jun than the other way around.
Shin never agreed to Jun's terms, it was Jun who took his bluff and ran with it! I really don't remember Shin agreeing ever. Jun went and asked Hiromi out and once she was trapped by her lie he had Shin hooked. Now Shin has two choices, Allow Jun to break up with Hiromi and make her suffer (he still believes that Hiromi really loves Jun and she will suffer if he breaks up with her). The other choice is to go out with Noe at the request of her brother, but he can't bring himself to do it for that reason. so has to talk himself into believing he likes Noe, which is not really that hard because she is a nice girl. That is how much he loves hiromi, one of those Anime sacrifice yourself for the one you love. So no, Shin is not even close to blackmailing Jun. amazing what some people think.
greyhawk
2008-02-19, 10:55
#Jun asked Shin to be serious about Noe and go out with her, which was, admittedly, very blunt of him. But the moment everything started to go wrong is when Shin brought forward the proposal. It was very unlikely that Jun would step back here, we all know what his personality is like, plus he must have prepared himself to agree to any of Jun's conditions for her sister's sake. Then Jun rode off, leaving Shin in total amazement. Was there any kind of contract signed? No, it was just a gentleman's agreement.;) Jun didn't need to know whether Shin agreed to it, after all he was the one who came up with it, plus what kind of a man that doesn't have the bravery to do what he dares others to? So stop saying he ran away with it, OK? Then what? Like tons of opportunity for both Shin and Hiromi to tell Jun the joke had to end. But instead they just played along with it. Hiromi could always apologize and tell him she'd said it out of confusion just to shoo Tomoyo away or sth along those lines.
What's more:
+Jun did it for his sister. He knew about her feelings, so he'd agree to such a condition-->Now Noe's happy. (If there's anything you can call sacrifice, this would be it)
-Why did Shin do it? He was a clueless (and that's not an excuse) idiot who never thought it through.-->Now Hiromi's screwed up.
+Hiromi can break up with Jun any day without being heart-broken.
-After lying to himself, Shin went on to deceive Noe. Lovely. Or should I say, self-centered.
P.S: After Jun walked Hiromi home, she did think about him for a moment, this is probably a hint for future development. If everything works out for everybody in the end, then maybe Shin was not toying with Noe after all, and I'll be more than happy to forgive him for all his sins (ye I know I'm not God :D)
#Jun asked Shin to be serious about Noe and go out with her, which was, admittedly, very blunt of him. But the moment everything started to go wrong is when Shin brought forward the proposal. It was very unlikely that Jun would step back here, we all know what his personality is like, plus he must have prepared himself to agree to any of Jun's conditions for her sister's sake. Then Jun rode off, leaving Shin in total amazement. Was there any kind of contract signed? No, it was just a gentleman's agreement.;) Jun didn't need to know whether Shin agreed to it, after all he was the one who came up with it, plus what kind of a man that doesn't have the bravery to do what he dares others to? So stop saying he ran away with it, OK? Then what? Like tons of opportunity for both Shin and Hiromi to tell Jun the joke had to end. But instead they just played along with it. Hiromi could always apologize and tell him she'd said it out of confusion just to shoo Tomoyo away or sth along those lines.
What's more:
+Jun did it for his sister. He knew about her feelings, so he'd agree to such a condition-->Now Noe's happy. (If there's anything you can call sacrifice, this would be it)
-Why did Shin do it? He was a clueless (and that's not an excuse) idiot who never thought it through.-->Now Hiromi's screwed up.
+Hiromi can break up with Jun any day without being heart-broken.
-After lying to himself, Shin went on to deceive Noe. Lovely. Or should I say, self-centered.
P.S: After Jun walked Hiromi home, she did think about him for a moment, this is probably a hint for future development. If everything works out for everybody in the end, then maybe Shin was not toying with Noe after all, and I'll be more than happy to forgive him for all his sins (ye I know I'm not God :D)
I was not saying that Shin is blameless, oh no he has done so many terrible things, but everything he did was trying to help other and never without thinking for a moment that he was steping on others feelings. Jun is ruthless, he doesn't care who gets hurt as long as his sister is happy. Shin was unlucky that he got involved with Noe in the first place.
Maybe Jun just want Noe to grow up and he thinks that dating someone will help do that. Shin suffers from diarrhea of the Mouth, I grant that much. Still Jun took a bluff as a deal! Even shin told Jun that he never agreed to the deal(this is a fact, not my opinion, he told Jun this when he was stocking him in the rice field), but now he is stuck because if he doesn't do his part Jun break ups with Hiromi. I give 60% of the fault to Jun and 40% to shin!
Manji Midou
2008-02-20, 14:35
I was not saying that Shin is blameless, oh no he has done so many terrible things, but everything he did was trying to help other and never without thinking for a moment that he was steping on others feelings. Jun is ruthless, he doesn't care who gets hurt as long as his sister is happy. Shin was unlucky that he got involved with Noe in the first place.
Maybe Jun just want Noe to grow up and he thinks that dating someone will help do that. Shin suffers from diarrhea of the Mouth, I grant that much. Still Jun took a bluff as a deal! Even shin told Jun that he never agreed to the deal(this is a fact, not my opinion, he told Jun this when he was stocking him in the rice field), but now he is stuck because if he doesn't do his part Jun break ups with Hiromi. I give 60% of the fault to Jun and 40% to shin!
l'm amazed as to how you can put the blame on these two, yet give none to hiromi. a white lie is still a lie, hiromi's action is what caused all of this.
l'm amazed as to how you can put the blame on these two, yet give none to hiromi. a white lie is still a lie, hiromi's action is what caused all of this.
No, hiromi is guilty of something else! I am talking about Shin getting stuck with the deal.
hiromi is guilty of lying and causing Shin to hook her with Jun. Shin and Jun are guilty of getting involved with this deal of forced dating.
Kaoru Chujo
2008-02-20, 14:41
I like all the characters in this show. Including Jun. And including Hiromi. Jun is a dangerous guy, all right, but he is acting in his sister's interest, and hasn't done anything to Hiromi except take her out to a movie. Touching her cheek/lips reminded me of his scene with Noe and seemed to me a symbol of Hiromi potentially getting a place in his heart, as well as showing his ability to turn on the charm when he thinks it's needed.
And I think Hiromi is being unfairly criticized. What was she supposed to do? Go to Shin at the beginning of the show and say: "I can see you have feelings for me, but I have to tell that your father slept with my mother and I'm probably your sister." It took a lot of heartache before she lost control and told him that, and she felt terrible afterwards.
I still think Hiromi wasn't lying when she said she had feelings for "#4." Not like she has feelings for Shin, but she didn't make it up out of nothing. She even told Shin the details of how she came to like Jun.
I rewatched the ep where the bargain was made and felt sorry for Shin. He told Jun that you can't toy with people this way, and made a bitter joke about a trade. But single-minded Jun took the suggestion and ran with it. Shin was so surprised he couldn't get it together to say: "Whoa!"
Jun and Noe are actually quite similar. Dangerous to be around: they don't seem to have the normal social limits. You never know what they might do. But neither has done anything bad so far, in my opinion. Still, being with either of them is like riding a tiger.
Either Shin or Hiromi could call a halt to this, but Shin I guess still thinks Hiromi wants it (despite her telling him he was a busybody to arrange it). And Hiromi could easily say -- as I think she might have been about to when Jun dropped her off -- that their being together doesn't work. But she doesn't, perhaps because she actually likes being with Jun. There's no question that he's "cool" in both senses. He makes the other males in the show look like real wimps.
greyhawk
2008-02-21, 03:42
l'm amazed as to how you can put the blame on these two, yet give none to hiromi. a white lie is still a lie, hiromi's action is what caused all of this.
Depends. Maybe she was born a stubborn girl, or maybe it was because of her situation *cough* (such a big deal, or so I've heard). They're all to blame. This is what I love about this show, everybody is so flawed that it's up to you to decide who's your favorite character.
But deceiving each other is no way to build up a relationship, we need someone to put a stop to all this joke. But some part of me still wants to see just what they're gonna do. What does Jun have in store for Hiromi, and what is Shinichiro gonna do about her while trying not to hurt Noe? When is Nobuse going to accept the fact he and Aiko were never meant to be?... I want to see ep08 so badly. :(
I still think Hiromi wasn't lying when she said she had feelings for "#4." Not like she has feelings for Shin, but she didn't make it up out of nothing. She even told Shin the details of how she came to like Jun...Either Shin or Hiromi could call a halt to this, but Shin I guess still thinks Hiromi wants it (despite her telling him he was a busybody to arrange it). And Hiromi could easily say -- as I think she might have been about to when Jun dropped her off -- that their being together doesn't work. But she doesn't, perhaps because she actually likes being with Jun.
Hiromi is good at lying, undoubtedly. Still your theory makes sense, at least to those who wouldn't mind seeing them as a couple, me for instance. I guess they think Jun's the opportunistic type of guy who takes advantage of others' emotional vulnerability. I wouldn't be so sure about that, given that there should be no obvious villain in True Tears if it keeps on like this.
Jun and Noe are actually quite similar. Dangerous to be around...
There's no question that he's "cool" in both senses. He makes the other males in the show look like real wimps.
You could always say that again:D
Kaoru Chujo
2008-02-22, 15:10
In rewatching episodes, I noticed again that Jun tells Hiromi in the cinema that he only goes to movies with Noe (ore wa itsumo Noe to bakkari da). Maybe he's not the playboy he may appear to be. Moreover, Noe is all excited when he says he's going out on a date, so perhaps he doesn't go out that often.
And in answer to Manji Midou's understandable feelings against Hiromi, I personally think a white lie is often better than telling the truth. It's certainly very normal. It may not be working out for Hiromi right now, but I don't hold it against her in principle.
And in answer to Manji Midou's understandable feelings against Hiromi, I personally think a white lie is often better than telling the truth. It's certainly very normal. It may not be working out for Hiromi right now, but I don't hold it against her in principle.
That is why I changed my opinion about her lying after i saw the reason why she did it. I thought she just did it because she didn't want to have trouble in the household with the mother, but it actually was something much worse.
Manji Midou
2008-02-22, 15:38
That is why I changed my opinion about her lying after i saw the reason why she did it. I thought she just did it because she didn't want to have trouble in the household with the mother, but it actually was something much worse.
Hell, I don't dislike Hiromi...it just is she's my 3rd favorite of the three girls, it just irks me that Jun and shin are taking the majority of the blame...I don't blame her for lying but at the same time I can't say she isn't the main cause for this.
Kaoru Chujo
2008-02-22, 17:07
Hell, I don't dislike Hiromi...it just is she's my 3rd favorite of the three girls, it just irks me that Jun and shin are taking the majority of the blame...I don't blame her for lying but at the same time I can't say she isn't the main cause for this.Good point. I'm not sure about "main cause," but maybe that's just my sympathy for her talking. Her choice to say she liked #4 certainly has led in directions she probably didn't expect. Everybody seems to me to have made reasonable decisions that ended up combining to make something unreasonable. But I still have hope that Jun may turn out to be a good guy and the best thing for her, so that the mix-up has a happy ending. And that Shin will end up after all this with his true love, whoever she is (Hiromi, Ai, or Noe).
I know that I am in the minority, but I just wanted to show my support for Jun. Jun is actually my favorite character from the show. He's somewhat mysterious and a little shady, and we're still not sure whether he's good or bad, but I think that's what makes him so interesting.
He may end up being the most evil character on the show but, at the moment, I actually don't see why people think he's so evil. My guess is that a lot of this hatred is coming from Shin/Hiromi shippers. However, I do understand why they would hate him because he does play the role of "spoiler" in that pairing.
- Hiromi says that she likes him/He has started dating Hiromi.
- He is promoting the Shin/Noe pairing.
I think the above two are the reasons he is hated so much and not because he has actually done anything evil. If we look at what's he done, we really haven't seen any malicious intent behind any of it. I guess it gets a little annoying to see people apply malicious intent to everything he does, when we haven't seen proof of this yet.
I don't think he's intentionally tried to hurt anyone as of yet or has done anything intentionally mean. Shin seems like he's enjoying his time with Noe. Noe is obviously very happy. Hiromi is in her depressing funk (but this was not caused by Jun, but mainly by Shin's mother). In fact, Jun got Hiromi to smile! Hiromi even now knows about the Shin/Jun "agreement" and that Jun doesn't really like her, but she hasn't done anything to change the situation. In fact, it seems like she wants to use it to her advantage because Jun has said that he would do whatever she asks.
Like I said, he can still end up being the most evil character on the show but, even if that's true, I am enjoying his scenes and his role in moving the plot along. I think he really adds to the show and makes it much more dramatic.
Now for my a little different interpretation:
Jun knows, what's going on between Shin and Hiromi and I think he does what he does to get them both into positions where they get pressured to much that finally have to communicate their feelings. However he didn't expect, Shin would tell Noe, he would like her (Jun was surprised when he heared that, and that was no happy surprise), so this makes it all more complicated. He now stands by Hiromi's side for she doesn't have anyone else to help her and be with her so I doubt he would do anything to her. In a way he plays a similar role for Hiromi as Noe for Shin: Helping them to mature and realize. He isn't a bad guy.
mcruz1014
2008-03-02, 10:37
I was wondering what people thought about Jun's prior knowledge of Hiromi, and vice versa. Hiromi obviously lies when she says that she once had to "host" Jun during one of his games, but I wonder if the two of them have had any previous interactions before to cause Hiromi to think of him when choosing a candidate for her story to cover for her feelings for Shin. Its most likely that Hiromi only knew of him by his reputation as a basketball player, as high school sports is a small world, but I just wanted to see if other people had some other theories that could get fleshed out in the future.
SnEptUne
2008-03-04, 12:26
In rewatching episodes, I noticed again that Jun tells Hiromi in the cinema that he only goes to movies with Noe (ore wa itsumo Noe to bakkari da). Maybe he's not the playboy he may appear to be. Moreover, Noe is all excited when he says he's going out on a date, so perhaps he doesn't go out that often.
And in answer to Manji Midou's understandable feelings against Hiromi, I personally think a white lie is often better than telling the truth. It's certainly very normal. It may not be working out for Hiromi right now, but I don't hold it against her in principle.
I, on the other hand, don't think white lie is any better than telling the truth. It is very possible to tell the truth without revealing anything, by for example, glossing over important details like politicians do. At the very least, if someone confront you later on, you can always claimed that they are the one who misunderstood.
But being a social outcast myself, a normal socialable person may not find that appealing.
I personally like both Noe and Jun, probably because they are as weird as me. I couldn't understand other people's reactions; if you like someone, why is it such a big deal? If you like someone, of course you would answer "I like you", just like Noe did. If it is for marriage, why is it such a big deal to ask someone to get married? Normal people are weird.
Kaoru Chujo
2008-03-04, 13:45
...Hiromi obviously lies when she says that she once had to "host" Jun during one of his games, but I wonder if the two of them have had any previous interactions before to cause Hiromi to think of him when choosing a candidate for her story to cover for her feelings for Shin....Why do you think that was a lie? It seems most likely true to me, and the reason she picked him as the one she would claim to like. When one school comes to play another, some students would be assigned to help them find their way around, and a girl basketball player who was also a scorekeeper would be a natural choice to be a host. I think she'd know him from then, and from seeing him play, but not anything more.
I wonder sometimes if Jun really made the deal to make Noe happy. It seems to me that her being with someone else could simply act as a "seal" for his own feelings, if she's the one he loves. I'm thinking it's a little bit of both. If he can see her happy with someone else, he can maybe forget about her.
I wonder if it would be at all OOC for him to do such a thing. I don't think we know enough about him to really grasp why he does the things he does... Still, I like him, hahaha. An"ulterior motive" makes him all the more interesting.
I think some people are reading way too much into Jun and Hiromi's relationship at best. Jun was just a cover since answering "No.4" to the question of who she likes is a socially acceptable answer, whereas "Shin" is not (a la her living under the same roof, mom not liking her, etc.); you guys have to remember the "Japanese culture" dynamic as well as her specific social dynamic when it comes to answering that question in a socially acceptable manner.
Maybe after all this (meaning eps 5-10), Jun actually has something for her; but to claim that such was the case earlier on is to be wishfully missing what really happened earlier on in the series. She gave the socially acceptable response to the question, and Jun asked her to date him simply to keep her out of the way of Shin and Noe as per the earlier deal. That's how it all started; the fact that all of this has become far more complex than intended is a natural result of this kind of situation.
Rick_Grimes
2008-03-09, 22:28
^I believe you're spot on with your assessment. I can't even fathom a Jun/Hiromi pairing. It wouldn't make any sense after having seen what happened in previous episodes. Jun's interest in Hiromi is entirely fabricated to prevent any event's that may cause Shin to break Noe's heart.
Jun obviously is in love with Noe in the same way Shin is in love with Hiromi. They both have seen the obstacles their respective crushes have gone through, and they want to be able to protect them. The difference is Jun's love is truly "forbidden", and so the only way he can express it is to give Noe to someone who can take care of her the way he would. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but I think initially Jun saw the same problem he was having with Noe in the Hiromi/Shin's relationship and believed a mutually beneficial agreement could be made. Of course this was before the events of ep.9.
w00tness
2008-03-09, 22:44
To be honest, I dont know why Jun refuses to end it with Hiromi. He knows that ther relationship is a farce. The only reason to keep it is because he is afraid that if he breaks off, then Shin will see no reason to keep his end of the bargain. However he fails to see that if Shin really loves Noe, whether Jun breaks up with Hiromi or not does not matter, and Shin wont break up with Noe just because Jun did with Hiromi. Conversely, if Shin doesnt really love Noe, then if Jun loves Noe so much, should he force Shin to continue being with Noe? Is this really the best for Noe? Wouldnt it be painful for her?
I think Jun is desperately clinging on to his ideal ending, even though he knows that it is just a dream, even though he knows it is not right, and will cause more hurt to everyone involved if left to continue. Escapism. I can really relate to that xD.
OR, you could say that he has developed true feelings for Hiromi. But yeah. heh?
To be honest, I dont know why Jun refuses to end it with Hiromi. He knows that ther relationship is a farce. The only reason to keep it is because he is afraid that if he breaks off, then Shin will see no reason to keep his end of the bargain.
That's exactly why he doesn't want to brake up, he knew from Hiromi's expression when he told her about Noe that she likes/loves Shin. Than he saw the way Shin hugged Hiromi after the crash, so he's trying to do the right thing for his sister but of course he doesn't realize in the end it will just hurt her when she finds out the truth.
That is why I changed my opinion about her lying after i saw the reason why she did it. I thought she just did it because she didn't want to have trouble in the household with the mother, but it actually was something much worse.
Hiromi was my fav girl initially but after the ending of episode 3 and the start of 4 combined with Aiko getting more screen time I started preferring Aiko more over the "liar". Of course once I found out why Hiromi lied in the first place she once again became my favorite.
@ Rick_Grimes, w00tness, Westlo
I think you're all correct with respect to Jun's motivations in this whole dilemma that he faces in the next 3 episodes.
I would further add though that Jun's real motivation behind all of this is to prevent Noe from crying ever again; he's willing to force his relationship with Hiromi at any cost (it seems) because he really doesn't want to see Noe unhappy.
This is why he's so concerned when Noe starts feeling really emotional about Shin, and he realizes that if her feelings aren't answered, she'll be so unhappy that he'll have to see her cry true tears.
In the end though, we as viewers do recognize that he isn't really helping her so much as he is directing her on a path that he believes is safest for her, and though he is totally selfless in his objectives; he pursues it at any cost to himself and others.
We also realize (as Hiromi has) that he spends so much time thinking about Noe that there might just be something more from Jun towards Noe, but that should be clarified in the coming episodes.
twkiwilee
2008-03-15, 21:27
I really like the character Jun.
Eventhough he has an incestuous feeling for Noe, i really hope and prefer Jun to eventually fall for Hiromi.
I love all his reactions when Hiromi sees through his character/intention (example. when hiromi tells him that he is a siscon)
He's cool and acts tough, but whenever Hiromi's around him, I do see his weakness, and this is the reason why i like his character and prefer the hiromi x jun pairing.
cherrysh
2008-03-15, 21:44
I really like his character too. (favorite actually)
Well he's really nice to Hiromi and very supporting towards his sister.
But I don't think he sees Noe "that" way, more like he's falling for Hiromi....
Who knows Hiromi could be his first love. lol
dun dun dun...
I'd really like them to end up together.
cloudninja
2008-03-15, 22:54
Basically there's been no development that would support a Hiromi and Jun pairing.
If you look at the context of what happened in episodes 2-3 along with the rest of the show, Hiromi told the lie about liking Jun because Tomoyo had repeatedly bothered her about liking Shin and she could'nt admit to liking Shin even though she probably wanted to. That was because the lie told by Shin's mother about them possibly being siblings prevented her from admitting that she liked Shin. That's why she was disappointed in episodes 5 and 6 when she saw Shin trying to set her up with Jun. Her lie was only intended for Tomoyo's ears to get her off Hiromi's case but when Shin heard it, the misunderstanding took on a life of its own. She did'nt show any joy in looking forward to her "dates" with Jun and was basically going through the motions. Once she knew that what Shin's mother told her was a lie she did'nt take long before trying to break up the charade of dating Jun.
As for Jun, he dated Hiromi because it would get Shin to go out with Noe. He asked Shin to go out with Noe at the end of episode 4 yet Shin did'nt agree until episode 7 after Jun threatened to stop going out with Hiromi. So he basically got Shin to go out with his sister even though Shin did'nt want to after using his concern for Hiromi as leverage. This was after what happened in episode 6 where Jun found out who Hiromi really liked, that person being Shin. He probably figured out that Shin liked Hiromi as well, if not at that point then definitely by the beginning of episode 9 when Shin embraced Hiromi and showed both Jun and Noe what's really going on. Jun put up the appearance of going out with Hiromi so that Shin would have no reason to break up with Noe. He did'nt show any signs of liking Hiromi until possibly episode 10 where they start to hint that he "might be" starting to like Hiromi.
Anyway, basically Hiromi does'nt like him in that way and Jun "maybe" only very recently is starting to like Hiromi. Combine that with the fact that he knows that Hiromi and Shin like each other a lot yet still tries to get in their way and I would say his chances with Hiromi are virtually nil. I think the show will resolve all the relationships that were entered into for the "wrong" reasons by having them break up so that relationships can be started for the right reasons. It already happened with Aiko and Nobuse. Shin-Noe and Jun-Hiromi should be next to follow in that trend. If I read the intent of the writers correctly, wrongs should be made right in the end, basically it was the lie that Shin's mother told that started this mess and with that gone everything is slowly correcting itself.
Compare that with all the development from the start of the show until now between Shin and Hiromi. It seems most of the time they are thinking about each other and their thoughts and actions have resulted out of their feelings for each other (Shin going out with Noe for Hiromi's sake, his picture book drawings being about Hiromi as noticed by Noe, Hiromi reacting to seeing Shin with Noe since episode 2 through the current episodes, etc).
twkiwilee
2008-03-16, 00:47
shin is going to end up with noe anyway (or so i think) because she is the last person that hasn't directly kiss shin yet and with the fact that noe is the main character of the show..
and etc..(but who knows?)
mm. i think we should have a thread about pairings
well.. i dont really care about shin, noe, aiko, and not so much about hiromi either (unless she starts liking Jun..then it will be interesting)
but..i do want the happiness of both Jun and Nobuse..
i don't believe Jun will be happy with Noe. He's much happier with hiromi..since he can be himself..
i do want Jun to fall for hiromi as he gets to know her and hope that Jun will do something to win Hiromi's heart
cloudninja, i am aware of the story line and the deal that Jun and Shin has made. i'm just stating what would be a better pairing in my opinion (or maybe that pairing may come true) o_O
hiromi and shin pairing is likely (but then the plot would be dull... it would be a typical anime/drama where childhood friends who eventually become a couple when they grow up)
noe and shin pairing is also likely (this event would be something new...and let them be in their own chicken world for all i care..)
but i just hope jun will end up with somebody and just be happy (but not with noe ...NO NO No)
jun and noe pairing would also be boring...i had enough of incest stories and anime
shin is going to end up with noe anyway (or so i think) because she is the last person that hasn't directly kiss shin yet and with the fact that noe is the main character of the show..
and etc..(but who knows?)
mm. i think we should have a thread about pairings
well.. i dont really care about shin, noe, aiko, and not so much about hiromi either (unless she starts liking Jun..then it will be interesting)
but..i do want the happiness of both Jun and Nobuse..
i don't believe Jun will be happy with Noe. He's much happier with hiromi..since he can be himself..
i do want Jun to fall for hiromi as he gets to know her and hope that Jun will do something to win Hiromi's heart
cloudninja, i am aware of the story line and the deal that Jun and Shin has made. i'm just stating what would be a better pairing in my opinion (or maybe that pairing may come true) o_O
hiromi and shin pairing is likely (but then the plot would be dull... it would be a typical anime/drama where childhood friends who eventually become a couple when they grow up)
noe and shin pairing is also likely (this event would be something new...and let them be in their own chicken world for all i care..)
but i just hope jun will end up with somebody and just be happy (but not with noe ...NO NO No)
jun and noe pairing would also be boring...i had enough of incest stories and anime
It's fine to have your own preference as long as you recognize that it's your personal preference vs the story itself that the writers themselves have set up. There are always some viewers that prefer a minor character in every show so that's normal. It's just unlikely that the writers would go to such efforts to continually reinforce the central theme of the story to abandon it at the very end. A story that is inconsistent would be a mess. I've never seen a story that could redeem itself by going against what itself has built up. Generally, either they have a consistent theme that shines through or they have an ambiguous direction that allows anything to happen. This falls into the former type. I think most viewers want consistency in story telling rather than a random inconsistent event to occur late in the show that would only appeal to a minority of viewers.
Just remember that the very first scene of the show had Shin drawing the picture book scene of Hiromi crying and him thinking that she wanted him to wipe her tears away. That has'nt been fully realized yet but I think it will in the end. Shin has'nt addressed Hiromi's growing concern over his relationship with Noe. Shin's second picture book scene was of Noe and therefore her part is closely entertwined with his relationship with Hiromi. It makes sense that Shin would have to deal with Noe as part of "doing everying properly" with Hiromi. Shin realizes that he has hurt Hiromi and Noe among others by not doing things properly beforehand and letting things get this far.
Well, I developed a much larger perspective after reading the posts of many other people here in this forum including the theories that flesh out the overall picture. In the end it's your choice whether to only want to see a narrow slice of the story or appreciate the broader perspective. In the end I expect that the first picture book scene will turn out to be the essence of the story, that it's about a boy (Shin) and the journey he takes in order to be with the girl (Hiromi) that he loves. Everyone and everything else has been built around that. It started with that first picture book scene and will end with the resolution of it.
shin is going to end up with noe anyway (or so i think) because she is the last person that hasn't directly kiss shin yet and with the fact that noe is the main character of the show..
If you want I could spoil you on about 10 different anime shows where the girl to kiss last loses but whatever. Also yes Noe is a main character of the show but so is Hiromi. You see Hiromi first in the opening while you see Noe first in the ending, Noe is on the cover of the opening single while Hiromi is on the cover of the ending single. The OST cover is a group shot with Aiko, while Noe does have the first DVD cover in Japan that means nothing, just look at who's on the first DVD cover of Kanon 2006 for instance. I haven't seen the DVD covers for Shuffle but after watching the first 4 episodes and knowing who wins I'm 99% positive she isn't on the cover.
In the end I expect that the first picture book scene will turn out to be the essence of the story, that it's about a boy (Shin) and the journey he takes in order to be the the girl (Hiromi) that he loves. Everyone and everything else has been built around that. It started with that first picture book scene and will end with the resolution of it.
I hope it ends that way since it would be an example of nice consistent writing, I would be disappointed if they throw in a curve ball just for the sake of it.
I've got to agree with the arguments laid out by cloudninja and jaisrh here.
Although people were certainly the argument earlier on that there might have been something between Hiromi and Jun based on her answering of the initial question of who she liked which was overheard by Shin, we know by the later episodes 8-11 that "No.4" was basically just a socially acceptable answer.
Also, Jun's reaction to Hiromi's earliest break up attempts demonstrated a total lack of care for any kind of feelings between them since he said "That would be troubling to me..." with the effect of analyzing their relationship from a completely detached view. It's fairly obvious that he was only in that relationship to tie Hiromi down so that Noe could make an attempt to win Shin over.
twkiwilee
2008-03-16, 18:13
It's fine to have your own preference as long as you recognize that it's your personal preference vs the story itself that the writers themselves have set up.
I agree. I know that there is a high chance that the writers of this anime may not go my way and I'm actually fine with that. I don't really mind hiromi end up with shin (actually in episode one and/or two, that was my prefered pairing..but then Jun came into scene..and yea..i changed my perspective)
Actually i also had read many discussion regarding true tears pairings and your statements sound awfully similar to what i had read in other forums and blogs :D
so im not that narrowminded and unknowledgeable..;)
Westlo: Actually, I am aware of some main characters don't end up together. I remember i have read that somewhere in other blogs long time ago. I guess i have to reword what i say or actually put more statement into what i know.
----------------------------
But anyhow, I felt sad for Jun. He's not happy as of these 11 episodes. He's struggling.
Poor Jun :(
I have a feeling Jun and Noe aren't really related. They don't even look alike. They didn't even show us a proper background of Jun and Noe's family. Why would Jun be portrayed as a siscon anyway? And why would the writers want him to be like that? Are they promoting incest or something? I'd like to think the writers are better than that. That or I'm just deluding myself. More so than seeing who that loser Shin picks in the end, I want to see how they're going to conclude Jun's sister complex. More spotlight on the hotter guy. ;)
I have a feeling Jun and Noe aren't really related. They don't even look alike. They didn't even show us a proper background of Jun and Noe's family. Why would Jun be portrayed as a siscon anyway? And why would the writers want him to be like that? Are they promoting incest or something? I'd like to think the writers are better than that. That or I'm just deluding myself. More so than seeing who that loser Shin picks in the end, I want to see how they're going to conclude Jun's sister complex. More spotlight on the hotter guy. ;)
I don't see why it has anything to do with any sort of taboo kind of incest or siscon tendencies to be honest. All he thinks about 24/7 is her..., his obsession over her needs borders on the absurd when you consider the lengths he goes to for her.
Also, the way he's been written is that he seems to be a big part of the reason why Noe has been so overprotected to the point of not really fully developing after she "lost her tears", since he always seems to be there to make sure nothing changes in her happy little world, until she met Shin of course.
germanturkey
2008-03-17, 21:45
for some reason, the idea of Jun saying his line to the captain of the b-ball team popped into my head. i don't know why. my mood will turn incredibly sour if he does steal Hiromi away from Shin and the final pairing is Shin x Noe.
for some reason, the idea of Jun saying his line to the captain of the b-ball team popped into my head. i don't know why. my mood will turn incredibly sour if he does steal Hiromi away from Shin and the final pairing is Shin x Noe.
At this point a JunxHiromi ending looks nearly impossible. I don't see how she backs off the words that she said to him in ep 11. Those kinds of words aren't anywhere near forgivable in a short period of time...
If it does go ShinxNoe, it's pretty much guaranteed that Hiromi ends up alone; the pace the writers have set in doesn't really allow her to end up with some kind of Ai/Nobuse-style reconciliation with Jun; especially not after she iced him with those statements in ep 11.
I think we just have to wait and see how Jun acts on what Hiromi has told him; that might be the key to a lot of what happens now.
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