[Manga] Claymore Chapter 77 Discussion [Archive] - Page 5

derelict88

2008-02-22, 03:00

If everyone is in favour of speculating than I would like to sum up by saying the Organization is somehow playing a bigger part that we have yet to see unfold. What we have seen thus far is only the tip of the iceburg. How deep they are involve in Clare's world is yet to be touch by the creator of the manga.

Based on my earlier juxtaposition on the events that have occured. It is not hard to see the Organization had in some way created or help create Clare's world as it stand. I mean like it or not the Awaken/Abyssals/Alicia are just some of the product of the ever illusive Organization.

I mean lets look at it based on point form.

At one corner we have the bad guys = Abyssal, Awaken Being, Ravanous Eater, Yoma and etc.

On the other corner we have the good guys 'Claymores'

Than we have bystanders namely the denizens that porpulate the rest of the world.

Where does the Organization (Org) fit in? I mean before Alicia I can grudgingly place the Org on the same field as the Claymores. But than as the story progress we have the Org taking off the heads of the over inquisitive 'children' (Claymores). I mean no good parent will take off the heads of their kids for asking question ya?

So lets ask ourself what kind of question that is considered taboo by the Org to justify taking off heads?

1) Alicia is an Abyssal? Well... if the new number 3 knows what Miria is refering than that couldnt be a taboo subject.

2) Awaken are former Claymores? Nope not this question either since its already general knowledge by most of the older Claymores... no heads need roll on this point alone.

3) All Abyssals are former number 1? Nope, no heads need roll on this point too.

Sooo what other questions than?

4) Okay some of Clare's friends (the Miria gang) had some understanding of being Awaken at one time or another... well it could be said that Clare and her gang could be a walking and talking Awakens. I mean if that is the case than shouldnt they just lop off their heads and be done with it? I mean they did kill off Teresa for a minor transgression of beheading some of the bandits. Why not go all out and eliminate Miria or whoever that is awakening or awake for that matter. Why all the sneaking around by the Org?

Lets face it, the Organization didnt go all out to hunt down any of the Claymore's that are changing. We have Claymore's that are about to change. They than mail a black envelop to their next of kin via the middle man and than they get their heads lopped off. End of story. But Nooo not for Miria's girls... I mean Ophelia is another degenerate that the Org seem to cast a blind eye... so it couldnt just be the Awaken bit that they faced. Somehow Miria could be getting close to something.

All of a sudden step in Galatea. Stuck to the wall for Clare to speak with...

Okay long story short suffice to say that the Org isnt what it seems. There are just too much current running under those still waters. Therefore I will place the Organization in the 4th corner. Are they bad or simply misunderstood. Whatever they are, they are a major player.

Come to think of it, just having the protagonist chasing Isley and Pris is getting a wee bit boring.

My two cents. Apologised for the long windedness of the post.

Zsych

2008-02-22, 12:05

The black envelope is sent by a Claymore who feels her end is coming, not by the Org.

And the Org doesn't seem to have the kind of super-power standing needed for a villian. Alicia is the greatest power they have, and they only created her recently( as opposed to having some deep dark secret and some hidden unholy power with which to destroy their enemies)

chibamonster

2008-02-22, 12:31

haha, Alleluia_Cone. Priscilla being forgiven to some extent is exactly what I am hoping for. If Clare ends up drooling "I will never forgive you" I am going to be slightly disappointed with her progression as a character. But I don't think a simple duel or a blank card of forgiveness is going to happen though. That would be to clear cut. I imagine it being much like Ophelia who somehow got some of my sympathy before she died. Although it is a long ways off and with Riful's new secret to leveling the playing field things could get very interesting.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-22, 12:49

I wouldn't count the Organization out yet either, they seem to be constantly trying to improve their standing in the power scale.

Alicia/Beth, and Miata are proof of that.

It wouldn't suprise me if Alicia and Beth were still improving, thus their lack of appearances, but I also don't believe the Organization has a clear picture of how much of a threat Priscilla actually is.

-----------

As for the Organization being evil:

1) Alicia and Beth were apparently a well protected secret before their completion, but in the current generation were they are actively employed, they wouldn't be. My guess is Miria has quite a few more of the Organization's secrets in her head.

2) Most older Claymores do know of the Awakened Beings being Claymores, but if there was ever a threat of this getting to the public (their clients) it would cause a huge problem for the Organization.

3) Abyssal Ones seem to be a more touchy subject then ABs being Claymores, but it still isn't that important in the grand scheme of secrets.

4) first off, Teresa killing bandits was far from "minor" it was breaking the highest rule that Claymores have, don't kill humans.

After the disaster with Priscilla, the death/abandonment/awakening of their top 5 must have been a severe blow, now they take a more hands off approach and simply throw troublesome warriors, (fab 4, Ophelia) into difficult win-win situations for the Organization itself, if they kill the AB, GREAT!, if they die, GREAT!

It saves them the trouble of internal war-fare, wasting manpower dealing with their own warriors, and not getting payed for it.

5) I'd also like to add that the black-cloaks are more then a little suspicious, they are seemingly immortal, and always travel alone, in a world infested with ABs and Yoma. How the hell do they survive? How do they always find their Claymore partners? Why don't they age?! Where does the Organization get its Yoma parts from anyway?

These are all questions that could easily lead to a much darker truth then the Organization is willing to have revealed.

Alleluia_Cone

2008-02-22, 14:21

I'm kind of the opinion that Riful and her plans are the best thing going in the manga at the moment, given that they seem to posses the most potential to shift the current balance of power.

I'm also a proponent of not having clear black and white distinctions when it concerns the topic of good and evil, which is why I'm always hoping that Galatea joins Riful or even more unlikely, that Clare joins Riful, and Galatea replaces her as one of the Seven. I think such a development would make the story really interesting and really make a compelling balance of powers.

You would have Isley, Priscilla, and Raki on one hand, the Organization, with Beth, Alicia, and Miata on the other, then you have Riful and Clare, and to round it out, the Seven Ghosts, who would be the only ones who are ostensibly 'good.'

I'm not saying that Clare should turn evil but it would be really neat if she was thrown into moral confusion for a while in her continued and frenzied quest to gain revenge on Priscilla.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-22, 14:29

I'd certainly be impressed if it went anything like that, and for the record I see Clare allying with Riful alot sooner then I see Galatea doing the same.

koffy

2008-02-22, 14:43

Im also hopeing for that someone joins to Riful.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-22, 14:47

I think Riful being the "polite" villain has made her a fan favorite :P

The kind of bad guy you can have a civil conversation with while dueling to the death :P

Or in Jean's case, while your being tortured :p

Torri_fay_torren@hot

2008-02-22, 18:46

The confersation between Jean and Riful during the torture seen was just amazing. Rifuls arguement just seemed so logical . And then When she was like "Please stop I really don't want to kill you. I'll just torture you untill you awaken and then I will make you my friends. Or then theres when she's talking to Dauf "Will you be quiet I'm trying to sympathize with these people." Perfect just perfect. She's one of my fav. villins ever

Zsych

2008-02-22, 20:30

Awakened

2008-02-22, 20:39

.... Priscilla... I'd find forgiveness for her a thoroughly criminal waste of the story. There is only one logical and satsifying end possible for this story, and that is Priscilla's demise at Clare's hands.

... Still, if the story became much more complex and Priscilla was transformed back... I could tolerate Clare forgiving her... barely.

You have to take into consideration that Priscilla was just a child when she became a claymore (against her will). The org has a bigger responsibility for what happened than Priscilla. They must have known that kids are more likely to awaken, but they still send them into combat.
It will be ok for Clare to forgive Priscilla, it looks like she is regretting what she did. The only problem with Pricilla is eating of human guts. If she is forgiven will she stop?

Synria_

2008-02-22, 20:41

I'm beginning to get worried about what's going on with Raki. Since the battle of pieta, raki has gone seven years with no word, and i'm thinking he might have turned bad. I can already see a sad ending for this manga. (NOOO).

I just finished reading the manga until chapter 77 recently, and boy is it exciting. I'm surprised the anime deviated so far from the manga... damn...

I hope galatea joins the ghost team, which in turn joins riful. Although i'm at a paradox about what the main motives are for each faction. Riful wants to destroy Isly/Priscilla. Clare and ghost team want to kill Priscilla and org. Org just wants to kill the monsters that they know will come back for them. O man... cant wait..

I posted this in another thread, but I think I should post it here too:

I don't know the reason as to why Isley is suddenly launching an all out offensive to each part of the world. Anyone know why? I know he went to fight luciela, and sent some AB's to the ORG and Riful, which were annihilated. And he is currently moving southward. Why is he moving south and again what is his motive to attack so many fronts? The south is where the ORG is right?

2. Why did galatea desert the org?

Zsych

2008-02-22, 20:48

AB Raki killed by Clare could be classic... but probably very hard to do well.

As for Priscilla... she's a demon who eats humans and killed Teresa, no longer the child that she once was, and unless she can be returned to being that child, she needs to be killed.... and her being restored would be depressing.

As for the Org... you could see it as being honorable, and holding to the law, even when the risk of sending forces against Teresa was so high. If Priscilla had listened to Irene, Teresa would probably be dead and nothing bad would've happened. The mission was probably only okayed because Irene also believed that the team could defeat Teresa without any major risk.

Awakened

2008-02-22, 20:57

I posted this in another thread, but I think I should post it here too:

I don't know the reason as to why Isley is suddenly launching an all out offensive to each part of the world. Anyone know why? I know he went to fight luciela, and sent some AB's to the ORG and Riful, which were annihilated. And he is currently moving southward. Why is he moving south and again what is his motive to attack so many fronts? The south is where the ORG is right?

2. Why did galatea desert the org?

1. Isley did not want Riful and Luciela to team up. There combine strength is the only thing that could threaten him and Priscilla.

I like the idea of Clare teaming up with Riful, but it’s very unlikely. They would have to make a deal. Riful would have to promise Clare that she will not be tortured. Lol
If that happen Clare might get her next power up, for Riful vast knowledge.

As for the Org... you could see it as being honorable, and holding to the law, even when the risk of sending forces against Teresa was so high. If Priscilla had listened to Irene, Teresa would probably be dead and nothing bad would've happened. The mission was probably only okayed because Irene also believed that the team could defeat Teresa without any major risk.

The Org cannot be given a pass on this one. We know that Riful was a child when she awoken. Most of the young clamores in the manga look unstable. A strong mind is very important to a claymore. The Org knows that, but they still take the risk and send children to fight.

The Org also made the law, puls reason must play a part when interpriting the law.

Help: In the manga Irene is caled Ilena, so is she Irene or is she Ilena?

FateAnomaly

2008-02-22, 21:54

Clare wouldn't team with Riful. She hate all ABs especially and because of Priscilla. I still want to be believe that Priscilla can be redeemed though. Its all the org fault. It is always the org fault:D

Voracious Reader

2008-02-22, 22:10

Help: In the manga Irene is caled Ilena, so is she Irene or is she Ilena?
It's almost certainly supposed to be Irene in the Japanese version. I discussed it with Chiba a while ago.

chibamonster

2008-02-23, 14:54

Yeah it is supposed to be Irene. Although personally I still like Ilena more :D. In the Viz English translation they also changed youma to yoma, probably because English doesn't appreciate double vowels in the same way Japanese does, so hey, my fantasy naming scheme can live on in my heart.

Zsych

2008-02-23, 15:04

With R, L and D being the same letter in Japanese, its kinda hard to be sure, and I've seen names with that character pronounced different ways in anime by different characters.

As for the Org, they're like a military organization. The mentality of the military is always harder than that of the normal populace especially in times of battle.

Again, Priscilla went over because she was an idiot and didn't follow orders, and she was sent in because without her the mission would be hopeless. Don't know how Riful went over, but I expect that it wasn't while fighting some minor opponents. The Teresa situation can't be too common, so Riful might well have awakened while fighting some devastating force that was likely to cause a great many deaths(have to remember that Riful was the first female #1, likely in a time with a lot more male Awakened Ones around to fight... she might have faced several strong ABs with her squad and eventually failed to defeat them normally). Riful did say that a high level of control was expected from high level warriors so she may well have had it herself. Its quite possible that being older in a hard battle wouldn't have changed anything for her.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-23, 15:49

I blame the Org for the results of that mission more then Priscilla, even if she was the only hope of completing the mission successfully, they still should have kept in mind her mental state (which they seemed aware of)

As for how Riful awakened, not sure myself, but considering how old she was when she awakened, it is quite possible she went over her limit voluntarily, out of the desire of more power, or something along those lines.

Like Isley, she seems to be quite comfortable with her status as and Awakened Being.

Anh_Minh

2008-02-23, 16:07

They've had centuries to get used to it... And most AB we've seen are quite comfortable with what they are, too. Ophelia's the only exception, but then she's always been crazy.

And I blame the Org for going after Theresa, period. There was no way that could have gone well, and surely there were other ways of dealing with the situation. A bit of selective blindness would have gone a long way.

Voracious Reader

2008-02-23, 18:07

With R, L and D being the same letter in Japanese, its kinda hard to be sure, and I've seen names with that character pronounced different ways in anime by different characters.
Not D.
And while the consonants are not much help in this case the vowels are pretty clear.

<pedantic>You don't mean letter or even character but phoneme.
The Japanese /r/ phoneme is written with a variety of characters, but is usually phonetically realized as [ɺ]. Sometimes, particularly in songs, it is realized as [l], but that case is much rarer. Or in other words, [l] and the various r sounds fall into the range of the same phoneme in Japanese, which is the reason native Japanese speakers sometimes have trouble keeping them apart in other languages. [l] is a normal realization of the English phoneme /l/, but the [ɺ] sound does not exist in English. While it usually is equated with the English /r/ phoneme for many speakers it can be approximated as a sound somewhere between a flapped d as in ladder and an l, but that does not mean that [d] also belongs to the same phoneme in Japanese, and indeed there is an entirely separate Japanese/d/ phoneme that has no connection to the Japanese /r/ phoneme at all. </pedantic>

Mikke

2008-02-23, 19:02

I've been having this theory; What are the chances of Orsay knowing about the bandits hideout in the forest near Rokut, and the whole Affair with Clare?
It's no secret that Teresa was a problem child and I'd assume that there were other contestants for No.1 in that time, one of which was Priscilla, who was more obedient, less impulsive (or so they thought :eyebrow:) and had high morale.

Could Teresa's fall have been planned all along? There was seemingly no limits to her power, and she was becoming more and more cynical, throwing criticizing remarks and placing doubt at everything the ORG says. It may be tollerable coming from an ordinary soldier, but the ORG's No.1 who's supposed to be the height of their achievments and their pride should not hold such "dangerous thoughts".

ergon

2008-02-23, 19:11

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-23, 19:15

I highly doubt the Organization engineered Teresa's fall.

Mikke

2008-02-23, 19:37

Where the hell "Undine" came from? especially with the emphasis on the last vowel.. a german name?

Voracious Reader

2008-02-23, 20:25

I see the Japanese R as being more like a spanish and some european language's R, hence the confusion with english speakers. Also reminds me of how when Borat introduces himself some people hear it "Bolat" heheh.

If Irene is イレーヌ in Japanese, I think that would be a normal way of writing a european name, ie. Jeanne of Arc is ジャンヌ (jyannu)in Japanese, In french I wouldn't know but I'm guessing its something like zhanu. But thinking in american english you'd read it as "Jean" or even "Jeanie" for some people.
It's イレーネ, not イレーヌ. That's because it's based on the Spanish/German/Italian etc. pronunciation which go back to the Latin pronunciation which in turn is based on the Greek pronunciation about 2000 years ago, not the English pronunciation (And why should it? Most people named Irene are not native English speakers and the English pronunciation is the furthest from the original.).

Where the hell "Undine" came
from? especially with the emphasis on the last vowel.. a german name?
A German(ic) mythological figure and also a rare German name, yes. The mythological figure is just about the opposite of this Undine, so I think it was just supposed to be a distinctively German name starting with u. Ulrike or even Ulla would have been better.

ergon

2008-02-23, 22:01

Oh ok, I thought I saw it written イレーヌ somewhere. I have only read the latest 3 episodes in japanese so I'm clueless.

I heard somewhere that Rubel (ルブル？）got his name from the Louvre. More Japanese/American/French confusion lol.

Well the end of the month is approaching. Looking forward to the march issue :)

Mikke

2008-02-23, 22:05

It sure better be good....! Yagi better not dissappoint me on my Bday :frustrated:

Synria_

2008-02-24, 00:51

I have a speculation that Riful appears during the ghosts squad's fight with Agatha...

bets anyone???!

derelict88

2008-02-24, 01:02

----------

After the disaster with Priscilla, the death/abandonment/awakening of their top 5 must have been a severe blow, now they take a more hands off approach and simply throw troublesome warriors, (fab 4, Ophelia) into difficult win-win situations for the Organization itself, if they kill the AB, GREAT!, if they die, GREAT!

It saves them the trouble of internal war-fare, wasting manpower dealing with their own warriors, and not getting payed for it.
**snip**

These are all questions that could easily lead to a much darker truth then the Organization is willing to have revealed.

I guess we are on the same page on certain things. I think the author might pull a nice one on us regarding them. Mind you, nothing wrong with feeding us bit and pieces. Just feel a lil slow in terms of progression. :)

Question pertaining to Raki.

My believe that Raki will never turn into a Claymore therefore no chance of being turn into an Awaken. My logic comes from the fact that Isley and Prisc just wants him to be him. A rememberance of what was. But the above are just speculation on my part.

Raki might be weaker than Isley in terms of speed but who is to say he might not be way faster than any of the other warriors?

Raki might not have any manga time or at lease not until Isley and his band of merry men is shown.

Raki should be playing a major role in future because he is human. Easier to continue him as he is. In a way the author might want us to feel like Raki. A human in Clare's world. Hopefully without shitting our pants too badly during a given battle. I wouldnt be surprise if Raki pull a Batman on us with gadgets and toys to even the battlefield. Lol.

Riful and Clare's team.

Clare made it perfectly clear where she stand in regards to an alliance with Riful. I dont see an alliance but I see an uneasy truce. Riful is bitter after the last encounter. By truce I mean, "I will not cross your border and you dont cross mine." Also while growing up the Claymores were thought to kill all things Yoma. I would be put out if the author suddenly made them Allies. It just makes the Claymore weak if that ever happens.

I am really looking forward to Scene 78!! It will be the 1st battle after seven years! I do hope there will be less talk and more action this time around. I will be sourly dissapointed if Agatha commit suicide because the magnificent 7 talked to much.

Galatea is important simply for the fact she knows things. Not too surprise if Galatea joins Clare. 8 is Enough. Lol

Edit:

Off topic:

About Galatea and Clare on one fine morning in the woods. Galatea" BTW, was it you who detected me on that blah blah day?

Clare: It was you wasnt it!! I knew I sense someone.

Galatea: Yup!

Clare turns around smugly at Miria and Deneve. " I told you I sense some one on that day. Hah!"

Galatea: Behehehe, So do you wanna learn the shortcut way to be a human dog and learn to smell yoki from a gazillion miles? Wink wink.

Clare: Really?! That would be sooo AAAWWWWWEEESOME! K K lets do it! Teach me sista!

Galatea and Clare sat closely and started touching each other under the blanket.

The end.

Sorry... had to pull that one out. :P

chibamonster

2008-02-24, 02:35

Oh wow derelict88. I have read some suggestive posts but you just took the cake.

Negativedark

2008-02-24, 10:28

Kekekeke, reminds me of something I thought up last night. At the battle in Pieta, after Flora is killed...
Claire- "How dare you kill Flora! She taught me things. Things I never realized two women could do together!"
Rigaldo- "Eh?"
Claire- "Joys and exctasyies that were so wrong, so forbidden, and yet felt so good. Hieghts I never belived I could reach..."
Rigaldo- "Oooh, go on, go on."
Claire- "And when Jean joined in it got even better..."
Rigaldo- "You mean you?"
Claire- "Now we'll never go rock climbing again!"
Rigaldo- "What!? That's it!?" Get's head cut off by Miria. Look around and sees that all the awakened were killed while distracted."
Miria- "Of course. If only I had remembered that deep down inside they were all just a bunch of pervy guys... I would have had a few of us make out, and then everyone could have survived."

Awakened

2008-02-24, 11:48

Kekekeke, reminds me of something I thought up last night. At the battle in Pieta, after Flora is killed...
Claire- "How dare you kill Flora! She taught me things. Things I never realized two women could do together!"
Rigaldo- "Eh?"
Claire- "Joys and exctasyies that were so wrong, so forbidden, and yet felt so good. Hieghts I never belived I could reach..."
Rigaldo- "Oooh, go on, go on."
Claire- "And when Jean joined in it got even better..."
Rigaldo- "You mean you?"
Claire- "Now we'll never go rock climbing again!"
Rigaldo- "What!? That's it!?" Get's head cut off by Rigaldo. Look around and sees that all the awakened were killed while distracted."
Miria- "Of course. If only I had remembered that deep down inside they were all just a bunch of pervy guys... I would have had a few of us make out, and then everyone could have survived."

lol

It's almost certainly supposed to be Irene in the Japanese version. I discussed it with Chiba a while ago.

Thanks.

Mikke

2008-02-24, 12:18

No idea about what those girls' true opinion on sexual matters is, but I think Miria is the most modest of them.

Teresa was the playful one, Irene was a lesbo I think..., Noel and Sophia were getting it on every night at some pub with anything that moved, or at least that's how they struck me,Priscilla was too young to think about sex.

Now the 78th girls; Ahem... Clare is downright dumb, I don't think she has a sex drive at all, Deneve is a nun and will never get any, Miria has other things to think about cuz she's too smart but I'm sure she wouldn't mind after a few girl talks with Helen, and Helen..., Well Helen is Helen. :D
Jean's definetly into girls, Flora? Oh Flora knows :D Darn right she knows.. But she doesn't show it.... :heh:

Did I miss anyone?

BTW, if this is an inappropriate subject than there's allways the PM :) No need to shoot me..

stringer13

2008-02-24, 12:34

How about Galatea?

Zsych

2008-02-24, 12:47

Newhope

2008-02-24, 15:39

I doubt any normal man would touch a claymore with a barge pole, most people in the claymore world see them as nothing but monsters.

chibamonster

2008-02-24, 15:41

Cids probably going to blow a gasket with the 9 claymore chicks (I'm not including miata) + 1 neked AB around town. Broken arm or not his dreams have come true.

Tempest35

2008-02-24, 16:00

No idea about what those girls' true opinion on sexual matters is, but I think Miria is the most modest of them.

Teresa was the playful one, Irene was a lesbo I think..., Noel and Sophia were getting it on every night at some pub with anything that moved, or at least that's how they struck me,Priscilla was too young to think about sex.

Now the 78th girls; Ahem... Clare is downright dumb, I don't think she has a sex drive at all, Deneve is a nun and will never get any, Miria has other things to think about cuz she's too smart but I'm sure she wouldn't mind after a few girl talks with Helen, and Helen..., Well Helen is Helen. :D
Jean's definetly into girls, Flora? Oh Flora knows :D Darn right she knows.. But she doesn't show it.... :heh:

Did I miss anyone?

Hey, Galk needs some lovin too. :throws him to Undine: XDDD

And have you read 'Stories from the North' yet - especially Chap. 5? Some questions may be answered for those with inquiring minds.

Mikke

2008-02-24, 16:11

Hey, Galk needs some lovin too. :throws him to Undine: XDDD

And have you read 'Stories from the North' yet - especially Chap. 5? Some questions may be answered for those with inquiring minds.

Ok, stories from the north? You mean the on on FFNET? read the first one.... just out of curiousity, did you write that? :naughty:

Lol, I've read some other stuff there that I really, REALLY hated so i sorta stopped visiting FFNET.

and..... Undine's hot watcha talking abut? -_-'; when she wasn't pumped up..

Guido

2008-02-24, 17:00

No man in the Claymore-verse would be worthy of Galatea :P

Actually with all men being so weak in comparison, a claymore with a guy might be like any normal woman with one of those super-weak nerd types. Honestly what man would feel self-confident around these women? :P

I doubt any normal man would touch a claymore with a barge pole, most people in the claymore world see them as nothing but monsters.

Answer to both: Raki would. He's lucky enough to be Clare's toyboy, and Priscilla's pet. :naughty:

How more lucky can he get to be?

Tempest35

2008-02-24, 17:04

Ok, stories from the north? You mean the on on FFNET? read the first one.... just out of curiousity, did you write that? :naughty:

Lol, I've read some other stuff there that I really, REALLY hated so i sorta stopped visiting FFNET.

and..... Undine's hot watcha talking abut? -_-'; when she wasn't pumped up..

It's written by 'Wall-o-Text' Fenrir actually. :heh:

Undine's not really missed by me - thought she was just weird...that and she would never have fit in with the '0 Youki' rule with the other Ghosts. If she wasn't all pumped up - she'd look just like Yuma.

stringer13

2008-02-24, 17:29

That was a hilarious story! Fenrir made it?

chibamonster

2008-02-24, 17:32

You know, I have thought about it and I think Fenrir's wall of text posting style is most like Gilgamesh's "Gate of Babylon" Noble Phantasm from Fate/Stay Night. That or like Archer's "Unlimited Blade Works". Or even like Kuchiki Byakuya's Bankai from Bleach. I imagine that Fenrir has to summon his posts more than he has to write them. They are just that epic. I always laugh when people multipost respond to them ... It reminds me of the battle of 5 armies from the hobbit.

Synria_

2008-02-24, 18:19

Ok... I am really worried about a second season of claymore now... Some of the chapters contain 18+ material... how the hell can they make a second season with so much hentai-like imagery... God damnit...

The only way I see it, is that they just put some clothes on and hide those details (miata + clarice). But gosh... putting out manga with that stuff makes it hard on production companies...

All that aside... I hope a second season comes out. Maybe they can somehow reconnect the story line from where they left off in the anime. >.< (gosh... I can't help but think the anime is done for)

ergon

2008-02-24, 18:34

and..... Undine's hot watcha talking abut? -_-'; when she wasn't pumped up..

Actually I just read war in the north again and I noticed she was kind of cute, when not being a muscle freak. But Veronica...woah :eyespin: we need some veronica fan art

Newhope

2008-02-24, 18:34

If there is a second season it would be total different to the manga.I think the best we can hope for is a OVA a few years down the line like they did for Hellsing.

ergon

2008-02-24, 18:48

Here's what we need: 7 girls wearing cloaks and dressed in magnificent 7 outfits to run around and destroy every copy of the non-canonical episodes of the anime.

but theres still not enough material for anther season...

Tempest35

2008-02-24, 19:07

That was a hilarious story! Fenrir made it?

Yep.
He doesn't show it but he's silly at heart. Of course he has to be all :cool: and everything for Miria-taichou. :D

I'm happy with Cynthia. :D v

stringer13

2008-02-24, 19:25

The cynthia in that story was hilarious.

Negativedark

2008-02-24, 23:12

Whoops I made a mistake in my previous post. Mean Rigaldo got his head cut off.

Anyways on The love Lifes of Claymores...
Claire- Hasn't given it much thaought before. But now thanks to Raki she has.
Miria- The profesional woman. Hasn't had time, but may try it if the oportunety arises.
Helen- Knows it, loves it.
Deneve- Less obvious than Helen, but I can see Deneve having a few flings. She just happens to be discrete about it.
Undine- Will act tough and take charge, but really, she just want's to be held.
Flora- So Classy, that the classiest of french courtesians can't compete. In otherwords, yeah she's done it, but in a way few can dream of.
Galetea- the unobtainable beauty. She is a nun now, you know.

Torri_fay_torren@hot

2008-02-25, 01:54

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-25, 08:41

Aww you guys are making me blush.

Yes, I am indeed the writer of that story.

I'm also a hopeless romantic at heart.

------------

My wall-text style posts generally originate from my ability to churn out B.S. Papers for my classes when I'm short on time, so I kind of treat my posts like an essay subconsciously.

------------------

As for the ladies:

Clare: Probably saving herself for Raki

Miria: Is generally too busy to think about it, but is curious, but incredibly shy about it. (mostly Helen's influence)

Deneve: Gotten it on at least once, if not, I vote for Galk, they make a good pair, may have also "experimented" with Helen once-upon-a-time, but really wasn't into it.

Helen: Brags about it, flaunts it, and doesn't limit herself to one sex ;)

Galatea: Seams untouchable and way above the carnal pleasures of the body, but in reality is just incredibly shy.

Flora: Was very polite on public, but most likely dominatrix in private, definitely on on-top girl.

Cynthia: Hasn't done it, but due to Helen's influence, most certainly wants to.

Tabitha: Definitely into girls, but generally keeps it quite, especially around Miria-taicho

Yuma: Would probably pass out from embarrassment if the topic even came up.

Undine: Probably into girls, but more of a one partner a lifetime type, and her deceased friend was probably that partner.

Negativedark

2008-02-25, 10:10

Heck I'm really hoping for Cid meeting Helen. I can just imagine what might happen.

Deneve- "Helen, Cmon Miria want's us to leave soon, what are you doing- Oh."
Helen- "Ten more minutes Deneve!"
Cid- "Make it twenty."
Deneve- "Fine. But should he really be doing that in his condition?"
Cid- "I'll be fine."
Deneve "Whatever."
Helen- "Finally after all those years in the north... Someone who shares my love of Fingerpainting!"

Enara

2008-02-25, 11:41

no Yuma would do it if Clare asked her to

Mikke

2008-02-25, 21:10

I wonder if any of them ever got drunk and did it with a Yoma.... :eyebrow:

Btw, I recommend adding a soundtrack to the fanfics we post in here. Just a song/track that you think will fit the mood. In fenrir's north fics I'd recommend Nine Inch Nails - Closer. LMAO :heh:

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-25, 23:02

Nah, the instinct to kill Yoma would overcome even being drunk.

Song is too wierd for my fic :P

Needs something more dramatic, or non-wierd humerous.

Edit: Or try "Taiyo no Hana", I like it alot, awesome song.

PGilis

2008-02-26, 09:59

I wonder if any of them ever got drunk and did it with a Yoma.... :eyebrow:

*Points to Miata*

Probably her true mother did. :p

Mikke

2008-02-26, 10:07

That is so terrible.... :upset:

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-26, 10:18

The only person to likely have "done it" with a Yoma is actually a certain main character of this series, and probably not willinginly.

I'm just betting Miata's family was killed by Yoma and she was forced to survive in the wilderness or something like that.

Mikke

2008-02-26, 10:29

The only person to likely have "done it" with a Yoma is actually a certain main character of this series, and probably not willinginly.

.

No way! Her brother must've beat the living crap out of her but not... that! eww....
And don't tell me it's just a hypothesis, cuz that's what you were thinking.. OH MY GOD! Clare is....
Ok enough with the claymore sex jokes. Lets just keep them asexual.

PGilis

2008-02-26, 12:11

Please do!

I was just starting to imaginate what exactly Riful likes so much about Duff, with all those darts and poles going out of his body and all... :eek:

Mikke

2008-02-26, 12:17

Please do!

I was just starting to imaginate what exactly Riful likes so much about Duff, with all those darts and poles going out of his body and all... :eek:

She said he's the only man who can accept her; Quite obvious what that implies. :D I guess she really goes wild when the heat is on, and as a result; All the men except Dauf, "Broke" down. lol....

Damn, though I'm the one who suggested it, I'm also the one who can't stop talking about Claymore and sex. :cool: All because of Fenrir and his "sillyness". :p

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-26, 13:16

:P Don't go blaiming this on me now, I didn't bring up the Yoma thing.

lsley

2008-02-26, 15:47

Damn, though I'm the one who suggested it, I'm also the one who can't stop talking about Claymore and sex. :cool:

sex sells, and that not without a reason :heh:

khryoleoz

2008-02-26, 15:47

I've always thought that there were strong implications that Clare was raped by the yoma who held her captive, hence her compelling response to take some form of action when Teresa was just "giving it away"...without charge no less. Geez, her entrepreneurial sense is lacking.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-26, 16:04

It could be seen that way, but it is just as likely that she protected Teresa because "they had the same eyes" like Clare said, she didn't want Teresa to suffer more, especially since she had suffered as much as Clare.

stringer13

2008-02-26, 16:16

She was called the Yoma's toy. People can take that as being tortured or raped.

khryoleoz

2008-02-26, 16:48

Sure, a metaphor for "having seen [or sufferred] the same thing", that thing probably meaning forced, undesired sexual assault.

Tempest35

2008-02-26, 17:56

Geez, I suggested that senario in the early days and I pelted for saying such. :upset: Regardless of whether or not she was used in that way - being kept as a 'pet' by a youma would be just plain ... disturbing, demoralizing, demeaning, disgusting...I'm running out of 'd' words here, but you get my point.

To have her own family (brother if I'm not mistaken) changed into a youma and attack her, to be saved by a Claymore only to be caught by another youma and forced to accompany it (there, a safe word) until Teresa ended it...one could imagine that it was horrible for her. :cry:
Also makes me upset/frustrated that there were no 'men' around to help but then again, how could they? Sucks I tell ya.

Sci-Fi

2008-02-26, 19:19

Sounds like most are itchy for the next chapter to come out the way the posts are going way OT...lol...j/k

stringer13

2008-02-26, 19:34

True the topic is currently not about 77. Well I have a small hypothesis for the next chapter. Well it might not really be called that. I just don't think Agatha will die for at least two chapters. Most people seem to think the fab 4 will defeat her quick but I don't agree. The powers we've seen so far can't truly compare to Rigardo in my opinion. I'm guessing we'll see her real form, and true power. If this is all she's got I don't think she has the power to be called a number 2. I think she's hiding something because i the last chapter on page 1.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-26, 19:41

I don't think she will just roll over either, but I don't think she will cause any (more) significant damage before being defeated either.

khryoleoz

2008-02-26, 19:59

Clare has a track record of killing off former number 2's with Rigald and Irene. Agatha may as well be one of them. If her trend keeps up, then Priscilla will be inevitable, as she's a former number 2 also.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-26, 20:04

Raphaela killed Irene.

Clare had to go over her limit to kill Rigaldo, and after several free-bie hits due to suprise.

Clare has gotten a single free shot on Agatha, but nothing significant, so I doubt it is going to be easy.

stringer13

2008-02-26, 20:51

I think khryoleoz means that because of Irene finding Clare she used her Yoki which ultimatley caused her supposive death. I won't be sure until we see Raphaela agian.

Agatha did cause quite a bit of damage so you are probally right Fenrir. But like I said I don't think this is her true power. She would have to be stronger to be a number 2 in my opinion.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-26, 20:55

Negativedark

2008-02-26, 21:19

We'll probably get spoilers, and fake spoilers during the weekend.

I figure someone will try to claim that Claire awakens at the end of the chapter to kill Agatha.

Synria_

2008-02-26, 21:27

I won't jump the gun and say Irene died to Raphaela, and we can't assume that Raphaela died either. None of their deaths were really shown. So in my opinion, I think they are still alive somewhere. It makes sense that Agatha must have stronger powers, because there are still a lot of volumes to write, so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes 2-3 more chapters just to conclude this battle.

In any case, I can't wait to see the ghost squad in action. The fate of galatea is also something i'm looking forward to. No way Miata and Clarice get their job done.

What is the official name for the survivors of the North? Or is everyone coming up with their own?

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-26, 21:29

Mostly fan-given names for the bunch, 7 Ghosts is my favorite.

stringer13

2008-02-26, 21:33

Yeah I love the name Ghosts seven, instead of the fab 4. :p Cynthia, Tabitha, and Yuma, need love too! :frustrated:

King Lycan

2008-02-26, 21:48

ergon

2008-02-26, 22:04

She said he's the only man who can accept her; Quite obvious what that implies. :D I guess she really goes wild when the heat is on, and as a result; All the men except Dauf, "Broke" down. lol....

Damn, though I'm the one who suggested it, I'm also the one who can't stop talking about Claymore and sex. :cool: All because of Fenrir and his "sillyness". :p

you'd think Dauf would be the one saying that "no one can accept him" haha.
She must be the type who likes to scratch...and all her former lovers were torn to ribbons :eek:

And about Irene and Raphaela:
"Irene: C'mon Raph, if you're gonna kill me, at least wait until I grow an arm back! wheres your sense of honor?"

"Raphaela: Well...I guess I could come back in a month or two..."

stringer13

2008-02-26, 22:15

But I really hope they show wat happened when raph and Ilena meet up im very curious on wat they talked about I think Ilena might have presuaded Raph to abandon the organization but knowing Raph she wouldn't abandon the organization, but cant wait to see some ghost 7 action, i wonder wat clarice and Miata will do after they encounter them they might join the ghost 7 and become the ghost 9 XD,and if Galatea might be able to regain here eyesight by reopening the wound since she is defensive type claymore and all
There was a story on fanfiction about that. It was really good in my opinion. I got to see the situation in a different light. Hope Irene's alive.

I only see Clarice and Miata doing 1 of 2 things. THe first option is she would pull an Audrey on them and say that she won't hesitate to kill them (though that doesen't sound like her.) Also, there's a possibility that she could be a spy for them in the organization but I doubt they would join now.
;)

derelict88

2008-02-26, 22:18

**snip**
I just don't think Agatha will die for at least two chapters. Most people seem to think the fab 4 will defeat her quick but I don't agree. The powers we've seen so far can't truly compare to Rigardo in my opinion. I'm guessing we'll see her real form, and true power. If this is all she's got I don't think she has the power to be called a number 2. I think she's hiding something because i the last chapter on page 1.

Depends on how they face-off with Agatha. If they use yoki, sure they can kick Agatha to kingdom come. Without, well thats another story...

I doubt they will use their powers just yet but if there is a need they WILL go all out.
Reason one, Galatea is there; I do believe Miria (more so than Clare) wanted Galatea for her inside info into the Organization. Since Galatea is within their grasp I think there is a highly likelihood they will use their powers if there is a need.

Reason two: there are people in the City that need their help. I highly doubt they will just pack up their bags and flea the scene. They are 'Claymore' afterall, it is hard to wash away what have been instilled in them for so long.

Reason three: Clare is there. a Predictable all round good lass.

King Lycan

2008-02-26, 22:35

We dont know how much they have grown in strength but i know that all 7 can handle her especially with YUMA-PUNCH XD

Also I think Ilena might have awakened and joined Riful's army XD

stringer13

2008-02-26, 23:11

We dont know how much they have grown in strength but i know that all 7 can handle her especially with YUMA-PUNCH XD

Also I think Ilena might have awakened and joined Riful's army XD

WHAT?! WHERE'd THAT COME FROM?! IRENE WOULD NEVER DO THAT! THAT'S BLASPHEMY! :frustrated: :frustrated: :frustrated:

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-26, 23:18

An awakened Irene would be scary, really scary.

Although if she did Awaken I doubt Raphaela would have made it out of there alive, or at least uninjured.

Edit: I have seen an awesome fan-art of an Awakened Irene though, but it was just fan-art.

Tempest35

2008-02-26, 23:27

Geh, where is this fanart, Fenrir?

Irene Awakened...we won't go there - Irene would truly be the 'Queen of Blades'.

As for what our Ghost 7 are going to do, hopefully we'll get to see Helen, Deneve, Cynthia, Tabatha and Yuma in action. Between Clare and Miria by themselves, they could take Agatha out at this point.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-26, 23:34

Look it up on deviantart, its pretty nice looking, should be the second thing on the list when you search "awakened Irene."

Not sure of Miria/Clare's ability to duo Agatha, unless we are putting them above Galatea's level, they would be about even with Agatha as Galatea+Miata would have been. (supposedly)

stringer13

2008-02-27, 00:01

That picture has similar arms for when Clare awakened.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-27, 00:07

It would sure as hell be scary though, I imagine she could own Rigaldo as an Awakened Being.

derelict88

2008-02-27, 00:17

**Off topic**
Speaking of art. Is there any that are in 3D? If there is none I might just model Clare just for kicks. Lol

Infact I might jst do that. The one with Irene's battle gear on the right arm. Woot!

Torri_fay_torren@hot

2008-02-27, 03:06

That picture has similar arms for when Clare awakened.

Makes since because one of the arms actually was Irenes

irvinethearcher

2008-02-27, 09:16

It would actually be quite the let-down if Clare and Company simply insta-win against Agatha, as it means we won't have any tension AT ALL unless Clare and Company start fighting Abyssal Ones & Priscilla right after this fight, because obviously nothing would be a threat to them at all if a former #2 was that easy.

Normaly it's to easy but if for example riful apears after the fight?
IMO it's absolutely possible that agatha is only there to show how strong the fab. 4 have become in those 7 years. IMO it's not to far fetched to assume that she will die a quick death and we will see good teamwork action.

Flar

2008-02-27, 09:59

Don't get blinded by that Number two ranking, either. Rankings are relative, so if she happened to be from a promotion of weak Claymores, she could be weaker than -say- Galatea, who is only number 3.

Also, Agatha herself acknowledged that Galatea and Miata working together would have been dangerous to her. If two Claymores present a threat, then seven sounds quite lethal,especially if those seven happen to not be weaker than the two.

Choose your poison: Either Miata and Galatea are four times as strong as any ghost, or Agatha lied and toyed with them, or she is mincemeat in the next chapters.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-27, 10:03

Galatea said that Miata and her working together would have been an even fight with Agatha. Only two warriors in the 7 Ghosts appear to be on Galatea's level, so the rest are still strong, but weaker, so they should win of course, but it shouldn't be a cake walk either.

Agatha has shown that she is at least on par with Dauf, and likely above his abilities.

Flar

2008-02-27, 14:25

Only two warriors in the 7 Ghosts appear to be on Galatea's level, so the rest are still strong, but weakerIsn't that just fan speculation? While the Riful chapters made it clear than the Fab4 were stronger than the three others, we don't have any data to make a comparison between Galatea and any of the ghosts. Yet. I expect the fight against Agatha to give some hints on that.... Actually I think that's one of the main points of it.

King Lycan

2008-02-27, 14:56

WHAT?! WHERE'd THAT COME FROM?! IRENE WOULD NEVER DO THAT! THAT'S BLASPHEMY! :frustrated: :frustrated: :frustrated:

hey Irene is my Favorite claymore but ya got to think about it :heh:
And i think more then 2 warriors of the ghost 7 are stronger then Galatea because while Galatea was chilling in a church taking care of children the ghost 7 were training

Stahlwolf

2008-02-27, 15:07

My predictions-

Or, perhaps, my personal outcome:

1) Both Miata and Clarice awaken.. Miata will turn into a creature, while Clarice stays in human form.... just stronger... and blonder.... and can have control of Miata a la Alicia/Beth.
2) Clare and Galatea have a tearful reunion (aaaw...) Galatea exposes what she knows of the Organization's plans to the Magnificent 7.
3) Rafaela casually walks into town... with a friend!
4) Agatha IS going to have her butt handed to her.... on a silver platter... with some fava beans and a nice chianti. (I'd prefer a merlot).
5) Everyone runs the hell out of Rabona!

-"Gee, that's gonna hurt!"

Flar

2008-02-27, 15:33

1) Both Miata and Clarice awaken.. Miata will turn into a creature, while Clarice stays in human form.... just stronger... and blonder.... and can have control of Miata a la Alicia/Beth.ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT KURI MIATA? *bwaaaaaaAAAAAAAH* *Hair turn yellow

King Lycan

2008-02-27, 16:17

i think Agatha is gonna escape so how

Mikke

2008-02-27, 16:37

Can awakened beings become any better?
There's no way, say, Riful loses to someone and goes: "Argh! I'll train and beat him next time" is there? Well not in that manner, but.... You get my meaning.

King Lycan

2008-02-27, 16:43

lol yea but i dont think they really train but i mean Riful tring to make an army of so she wouldn't have to

Torri_fay_torren@hot

2008-02-27, 20:01

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-27, 20:34

I don't remember the age of an awakened being linking to its power at all, never been mentioned before.

Synria_

2008-02-27, 20:58

It's a given that as time goes by, you become stronger/wiser/etc. You're suppose to learn new things and stuff as life goes by. So I do agree on the fact that if someone survived for 7 years... SOMETHING has to improve. If nothing does... you are officially F'ed up. With that said I hope the Ghost 7 finish in spectacular fashion.

Anyone know when the next chapter is suppose to come out?

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-27, 21:01

No, no, no, what I ment was that I don't believe ABs grow in raw power as they age, sure they can get wiser, or develop more effecient use of Yoki, but raise their raw power simply by being? I doubt it.

Next chapter should be out sometime next week I think, if we don't get it earlier.

stringer13

2008-02-27, 21:19

They said that older Yoma are stronger but not awakened beings. Also, according to Riful after the fight with Dauf she said that the stronger they got the stronger awakened beings they would be. She could have awakened them and they could get stronger if awakened ones got stronger but that was not the case, so I would agree with Fenrir when he says that they grow in mind. Except for Dauf! :heh:

Guido

2008-02-27, 21:20

It has been said that older the awakend bieng is the strong. (Taking into accont there previouse rank of course) as the get older they gain more exp. and hence get stronger. As for Riful needing help? She's currently trying to go up against Isley and Prisilla of course she needs help. And before the seven year skip She was gathering an army to compete with Isleys army. Makes since to me.

Age is not synonymous with experience.

I think you have the wrong idea.

Clare explained to the priest from the Rabona Church that the long Voracious Eaters (i.e. Awakened Beings) live, the more their hunger increases over time including that their murderous impulses become more violent and frenzied as well as their nature turns more monstrously evil.

To my understanding IMO the Awakened state is a deadlock state. With this I mean that the AB subject can no longer increase its overall power stats once awakened. Sure, the possibility exists that an AB might have or not awaken all of his or her yoki potential to its entirety after awakening.

The point is that to me 'Awakening' brings the hybrid subject to the peak and climax of his or her Yoma powers, and thus leaves no more room to continue increasing those powers. If it was the opposite, then the high-ranked Abyssal-Awakened Ones would have access to multiple and different "Awakened" forms emphasizing their drastic increase of Yoma power levels and not confined to just their initial Awakened form after awakening.

Or, furthermore, none of the Abyssal Ones would have had any trouble to deal against Awakened Priscilla alone and on their own, if the increase in their power base levels was decided exclusively upon age and experience.
(Isley is 78 Claymore generations old post-Awakening; Riful is 77 Claymore generations old post-Awakening; Luciela was 2 Claymore generations old post-Awakening at the time of her death)

The overall and final power level of an Awakened being is decided upon how much he or she maxed out his or her power base stats when being a Claymore before Awakening.

derelict88

2008-02-27, 21:31

It's a given that as time goes by, you become stronger/wiser/etc. You're suppose to learn new things and stuff as life goes by. So I do agree on the fact that if someone survived for 7 years... **snip**

I disagree on the older one get the strong they become. If based on that assessment all the other Awaken should by right be as strong as Isley of the former not some puny midgets that get pawned by a bunch of Claymores.

Wiser maybe but definately not stronger in terms of raw power. With wisdom comes cunning and educated judgement. I think same goes for humans, you dont expect our 70 year old grandfather to outrun a 16 year old lad. Lol

I think the right term is realizing one own maximum potential. Clare I do believe have not touch her max yet even Priscilla for that matter. Thus one grows into their full potential as time goes by but never stronger than their base.

Even that I must eccept the fact that Clare on the other hand did change her base strength when she took up Irene's arm but still there is still the base limit. Like what the above post (Guido's) beautifully pointed out

Archmagination2002

2008-02-27, 23:44

Guido explains it perfectly. Awakening(Claymore Stats) = Awakened Max Stats. So far it hasn't been explained if Awakening is a fixed variable, though I tend to think of it as a changing variable since Galatea explained that her Youma power expands at a greater rate than other Claymores.(volume 8 I think)

Agatha shouldn't be much of a problem for Claire and the others. Claire and Miria would be 3rd Ranked or above in the Organization right now(without even releasing their Youma power... though even if they released them they wouldn't beat out Alicia/Beth) and Deneve and Helen would be 6th Ranked or above. Of the other 3, only Yuma wouldn't rival a single digit.. though I think she would be surprised at how high a Rank she would have now(low 20's, maybe high teens)

Claire and Miria at least would be an even match against Agatha, but add in the others and Agatha's toast. The Ghost Seven have had 7 YEARS of nothing but hard training and I think most people have forgotten something very important.. none of them needed to be BlackCarded. Despite all the hardships they have endured not a single one has fallen to their inner Youma.. that is a testament to their inner strength.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-27, 23:50

More of a testament to the fact over half of them are partially-awakened, and thus may be immune to the gradual transformation, and have avoided using Yoki for 7 years (which is a more direct reason they haven't awakened.)

If you want willpower, look at Raphaela.

Synria_

2008-02-28, 01:33

Mikke

2008-02-28, 09:19

Don't you guys think this thread is about to blow? gotta ask NSW to create the chap 78 thread, thou it's a bit too early.

Casshern

2008-02-28, 11:01

Yah that makes sense derelict. I just read your comment and it's apparent that aging doesn't mean growth in strength (at least not in real life B)). I really wasn't thinking exactly like that, but it IS true true for the younger half of your life, where as you grow older you reach a peak. But then again, claymores don't grow old. You could argue that this means they can grow stronger forever... in a sense... until they awaken (the peak), but we still can't prove it nonetheless. But yes, they grow wiser/smarter/etc. as time goes on, as far as strength goes... it's a toss up.

Usually, in every kind of fiction where demons are involved, the older the demons the stronger they get. Like vampires for example, the most ancient are the most powerfull. I would expect that the same applies to Claymore. The oldest yomas are the most powerfull, and that probably extends to claymores as well. I think claymores do grow old, but none of them have lived long enough to do so.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-28, 11:14

We have absolutely no proof of that at all so far, maybe for normal Yoma it is true, but by that logic Isley should be far more powerful then Lucalea, and yet they brought each other to the brink of death.

Rigaldo and Isley were also no match for Priscilla, who would be no where near close to their age.

Raphaela is the oldest Claymore we know of, and hasn't aged a day.

The Org members seem incrediably ancient as well, yet don't seem to age.

Zsych

2008-02-28, 11:40

I kinda think that Isley being a first generation Claymore shouldn't have been as strong a #1 as that of later generations with the Claymore-ization process just developed, and probably buggy. But I don't expect them to be getting any stronger either.

Mikke

2008-02-28, 11:43

Who was a number 1, Raph or Luceila? If it was a number 2 who fought Isley then it would explain why he won.

Sometimes warriors are born with an innate potential that surpasses all, regardless of how old and experienced their enemies may be. I compare Priscillia's case to Anakin Skywalkers, lol; He was so powerful he felt he didn't need any experience and that nobody can take him on anyway. That's why such characters lose it early in the plot, never realizing their true potential.
Priscilla might've been ten times more powerful as a claymore had she had the witts to hold it in and train, later becoming a 20 times more powerful AB.

Zsych

2008-02-28, 11:56

Luciella was #1, although Raphaela was actually also on the same level, just as Alicia and Beth are basically around the same level.

Personally I would expect there to be more variation across generations. There would be weak #1s, and strong #1s. The abyssals shouldn't really have the same power, and Isley being the first shouldn't be likely to be the strongest of lets say the first 20 generations.

Not that it matters... Isley was stronger than Luciella at least.. if barely.

lsley

2008-02-28, 12:56

I think they would get stronger, if they were training.
But how should an abyssal one train without another? (and we know they don't really like each ohter ;))
And the point with "Isley was earlyer, hence weaker", i think that's crap. It has nothing to do with the generation imo, but with the claymore itself, because Rosemary was a lot later than Isley or Riful, and was a number 1 too (before Theresa ) but she still got owned as awakened, and didn't even come near to the level of an abyssal one.

chibamonster

2008-02-28, 13:25

Whoah! Stepping on dangerous ground there lsley! (My Teresa sense is tingling. Maybe because she is giving me a shoulder massage. Jeez she is strong) :D How do you know that Rosemary was not abyssal level? We know she was weaker than Teresa but that may say more about Teresa than about Rosemary. She obviously thought she was number 1 material (and was at one point).

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-28, 13:40

chibamonster

2008-02-28, 13:47

Teresa knowing she was stronger does not mean that Rosemary was not strong. Teresa uses the the fact she is alive after the fight to convince her MiB handler that she DID NOT fight a FORMER number 1 because that would have been impossible even for her. I was just indicating that being number 2 to Teresa does not mean much according to strength. Rosemary could have been stronger than the other abyssals or weaker than Rigald or Agatha. We have no indication to her actual strength besides her losing to Teresa. It is left ambiguous for the readers to judge. (I certainly have my opinion! :D) She did not fight another Abyssal to show her strength off. She got screwed and had to fight Teresa. Had she awakened before Teresa's debut she would have been an Abyssal. Too bad for her history she got relegated to obscurity and no one even knew what a monster she had become.

Tempest35

2008-02-28, 14:16

Once an Awakening happens, that being can't get 'stronger'. They can only use what they got - now, they can learn to use their abilities more effectiviely, but they can't increase what they already have.

This coincides with what Riful told Clare, Jean, and Galatea back in The Witch's Maw - 'Grow stronger, then Awaken. That way you'll be even stronger Awakened Beings.'

So any leveling up one wants must be done prior to Awakening. :D

Flar

2008-02-28, 14:27

Once an Awakening happens, that being can't get 'stronger'. They can only use what they got - now, they can learn to use their abilities more effectiviely, but they can't increase what they already have.So, like, the difference between a twenty-something athletic guy and bruce lee?

Learning to use your body optimally is a power-up in itself.

(If you want to argue the Bruce Lee is athletically better than anyone, replace with "old, frail martial art master of manga/anime and japanese collective unconscious")

irvinethearcher

2008-02-28, 15:24

Teresa obviously didn't think she was #1 material.

She definetly didn't fight with anywhere near the power we have seen Abyssal Ones display either.

If Isley had hit Teresa dead on like Rosemary did, Teresa likely would have been seriously injured, but despite the element of suprise, Teresa was still barely hurt, and she isn't made of anything harder then flesh, unlike ABs.

It's absolutely not as obvious as you think. But we discussed this already.
The results i remember:
We don't know how much time has past between the luciella awakenening and the death of theresa. It could be 100 years or more so it's absolutely assumable that rosemarie was an normal number 1 till theresa appeared.
Theresa said to Rubel:
"Her last moments were fittingly splended for a former number 1"
According to voracious_reader she lied about rosemarie to honor her death comrade.
Theresa never said that rosemarie wasn't nr. 1 material normally. She only said that rosemarie didn't understand, because she was nr. 2 and that against an unbelievably powerfull goddess like her.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-28, 15:50

Lucalea's generation by most signs appears to be the one right before Teresa's, judging by the news of the twins and the encounter with Chibi-Teresa.

Teresa implied heavily that Rosemary didn't deserve the title of #1 as well.

"and because you don't understand, you are number 2"

This sounds like Teresa is mocking Rosemary's capabilities, rather then just saying that Rosemary was weaker then her, which she had stated 2 panels before.

Teresa is also far from invincible, and I still stand by my statement that if Isley had caught her off guard like that Teresa would have at least been seriously injured.

But I digress, as you have said, we already had this arguement.

irvinethearcher

2008-02-28, 16:05

lsley

2008-02-28, 16:06

Teresa is also far from invincible, and I still stand by my statement that if Isley had caught her off guard like that Teresa would have at least been seriously injured.

lol, if he caught her off guard he could manage to hurt her... lol

here some dialoges i remembered from the anime:

Rubel: Could you defeat her? (riful)
Alicia: I could damage her to 50%, then screw up.
Rubel: You're the strongest in our annals.

Since the abyssals are at about one level, i think even theresa couldn't kill Isley or Riful.
I know, I'll get lynched by all you theresa warshippers but I think proofs are still better than blind believe in someone.

Tempest35

2008-02-28, 16:13

No, she couldn't, not by herself...she'd still need the full backing of all the warriors to get in a decent enough shot. Even then, Isley or Riful would have concentrated on Teresa until she went down. If Teresa had a Claymore 'Dream Team', then yes, she could do it with relatively few casulties.

And about Raphaela not using youki...could she had forgotten how to? :heh: (kidding around) Even Teresa said that if she didn't release once in a while, she'd forget how to...

irvinethearcher

2008-02-28, 16:15

lol, if he caught her off guard he could manage to hurt her... lol

here some dialoges i remembered from the anime:

Rubel: Could you defeat her? (riful)
Alicia: I could damage her to 50%, then screw up.
Rubel: You're the strongest in our annals.

The org believes that alicia is the strongest but the org underestimated theresa and didn't believe that she was able to beat an #1(perhaps AO) with even 10 - 30% Yoki which is proved in the databook. Theresa is probably S in Strength and Speed as well as in Yoki and Sensing.

No, she couldn't, not by herself...she'd still need the full backing of all the warriors to get in a decent enough shot. Even then, Isley or Riful would have concentrated on Teresa until she went down. If Teresa had a Claymore 'Dream Team', then yes, she could do it with relatively few casulties.

To proof the trueness of your statement you have to proof that rosemarie wasn't an AO. If you're not able to do this all you've said above is only an assumption of yours.

Anh_Minh

2008-02-28, 16:39

lol, if he caught her off guard he could manage to hurt her... lol

here some dialoges i remembered from the anime:

Rubel: Could you defeat her? (riful)
Alicia: I could damage her to 50%, then screw up.
Rubel: You're the strongest in our annals.

Since the abyssals are at about one level, i think even theresa couldn't kill Isley or Riful.
I know, I'll get lynched by all you theresa warshippers but I think proofs are still better than blind believe in someone.

That's not proof. That's a character, whom we have no reason to think he knew what he was talking about, telling something he had reasons to say even if he had to lie.

The truth of the matter is that we don't know how strong Theresa was, when compared to the Abyssals. And we'll probably never know.

khryoleoz

2008-02-28, 17:23

I get scolded for complicating a projected simple meaning behind Deneve's statement when the reference is obtuse but the language rich enough with distinctions so that it actually isn't so simple. Now we're back to the Rosemary thing again when this is the least complicated matter to understand?

Before we start relegating Rosemary to Rigald's strength, let's consider first that she held the #1 position, a position to which not even Rigald seem to have ascended regardless of his own initial lofty self-perception. Teresa overtaking Rosemary's position doesn't suggest that Rosemary was ultimately of only of #2 strength, but that Teresa was "beyond all of that". We reason that Deneve's statements are reliably truthful because in the abscence of contradicting information it is the only assessment of states we are offered. We must be consistent and also accept that Rosemary is more around Isley and Riful's strength to have even reached #1 in the first place until some other contradicting information is offered. So yeah, Teresa would have kicked the can out of Priscilla, even more so Isley or Riful. She'll twist their arms off, like this...

Isley and Riful's chance would be no different than Priscilla's. Teresa will have to be unguarded, then they'll have to chop her arms off, then lop off her head. Had Teresa been in the same generation as Isley or Riful, she would have been saying her words to either of those two instead of to Rosemary and neither would they be known as Abyssal Ones.

lsley

2008-02-28, 17:26

The org believes that alicia is the strongest but the org underestimated theresa and didn't believe that she was able to beat an #1

i think you refer to rosemary, but that was at the beginning and if you have read claymore carefully, you'll realize that they allways searched for the corpses if there was something suspicious, so they'll have realized that rosemary was awake.
and even if they wouldn't have, they'll have realized it after they sent the hunting squad, since a mib was in the town too.

@Anh_Minh
but it's a matter of fact, that things written in the manga are more reliable than pure assumptions, even though you have a point there that its also not inerrable.

Isley and Riful's chance would be no different than Priscilla's. Teresa will have to be unguarded, then they'll have to chop her arms off, then lop off her head. Had Teresa been in the same generation as Isley or Riful, she would have been saying her words to either of those two instead of to Rosemary.

I can't agree with you in this point, since luciela and isley destroyed the whole area when they were fighting in their human forms, rosemary as an awakened being just managed to crack a stone if i remember right, so i wouldn't set them to the same level.
And she wouldn't be able to twist Isleys arm, since the arm is just too big, she wouldn't get it between her arms, and if she twistet a ribbon of Riful, she couldn't care less.
You know, sometimes the size plays a role too ;)

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-28, 17:29

This is what disturbs me: "Teresa obviously didn't think she was #1 material." Because against Theresa even Priscilla could be inferior and number 2 (despite i somehow believe they're even) so it's your own interpretation and nothing obvious that theresa considers rosemarie of not beeing #1 material under normal circumstances.

The indirect show of disrespect, and her taunting of Rosemary is what leads me to my conclusion, while she never did the same thing to Priscilla, she even regarded Priscilla as a serious threat.

lol, if he caught her off guard he could manage to hurt her... lol

here some dialoges i remembered from the anime:

Rubel: Could you defeat her? (riful)
Alicia: I could damage her to 50%, then screw up.
Rubel: You're the strongest in our annals.

Since the abyssals are at about one level, i think even theresa couldn't kill Isley or Riful.
I know, I'll get lynched by all you theresa warshippers but I think proofs are still better than blind believe in someone.

I don't think that talk between Alicia and her handler (not rubel) indicates anything to us, the Org underestimated Teresa, but by how much we don't know.

No, she couldn't, not by herself...she'd still need the full backing of all the warriors to get in a decent enough shot. Even then, Isley or Riful would have concentrated on Teresa until she went down. If Teresa had a Claymore 'Dream Team', then yes, she could do it with relatively few casulties.

And about Raphaela not using youki...could she had forgotten how to? :heh: (kidding around) Even Teresa said that if she didn't release once in a while, she'd forget how to...

I rate Teresa higher by saying she could probably match an Abyssal at 80%.

The org believes that alicia is the strongest but the org underestimated theresa and didn't believe that she was able to beat an #1(perhaps AO) with even 10 - 30% Yoki which is proved in the databook. Theresa is probably S in Strength and Speed as well as in Yoki and Sensing.

That is all unknown, as Teresa's combat ability is highly bloated by Pre-emptive Yoki-sensing.

To proof the trueness of your statement you have to proof that rosemarie wasn't an AO. If you're not able to do this all you've said above is only an assumption of yours.

AO are awakened #1s who avoid appearing in public very often. As Rosemary was #2 and never really had enough of an impact to avoid appearing in public at all, she isn't an Abyssal One :P

It is also an assumption that Rosemary IS AO level.

That's not proof. That's a character, whom we have no reason to think he knew what he was talking about, telling something he had reasons to say even if he had to lie.

The truth of the matter is that we don't know how strong Theresa was, when compared to the Abyssals. And we'll probably never know.

Probably, it is impossible to compare Teresa to any of the current characters due to the fact that she is dead, as are a majority of her opponents, barring the inexperienced Priscilla who has now awakened, and the Supposedly dead Irene.

stringer13

2008-02-28, 17:44

In a week claymore 78 is out!

I believe Teresa would be a match for an Abyssal. In my opinion she is the strongest number 1 in history. Maybe Rosemary wasn't as strong as the other Abbysals but she was a number 1 and if Teresa hasn't used her Yoki she might have lost. Truthfull I don'tthink we know enough about a true Abbysal's stregth to judge how they would do against Teresa. All we have seen from Riful is her ribbons and we barely saw any of the fight from Isley and Luciela.

Mikke

2008-02-28, 17:56

God damnit! I know I shouldn't ask but, HOW the hell do you guys know that stuff?! whatddya actually scope google for hours, or are you insiders or something...? :frustrated: :)

Zsych

2008-02-28, 18:03

How do we know when the next chapter of Claymore is likely to be out? I think we're assuming that its coming the same time it comes every month.

Regarding Teresa, I think that if she could handle 80% Priscilla at 10% of her own power, and an awakened Priscilla raped Isley, Teresa would do plenty well against them.

The only real advantage those awakened ones have in destructive power is their size probably.

Even Helen taking down Riful, if she knew where Riful's vulnerable point(brain equivalent or something) was, wouldn't have shocked me much.
Besides, assuming Teresa didn't face the youki overload problem she did with Priscilla, she'd have a monstrous advantage over the abyssals.

Also... I think that Isley couldn't actually just instantaneously own Rigardo even. If he could, Rigardo's fight with him wouldn't have been even remotely exciting.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-28, 18:15

ergon

2008-02-28, 18:30

To kill Riful I'm thinking you would have to cut her in half through her abdomen :upset:

khryoleoz

2008-02-28, 18:43

and don't forget that when Priscilla fought Teresa, she was incredibly inexperienced, was not fighting with a clear head, and was fighting a person who was her superior in everything but potential.
One can come back that neither was Teresa in a war-footed mindset, this being ultimately the reason for which Priscilla survives. So the potential of both to be badasses were equally suppressed by their corresponding factors.

Teresa herself expressed fear in Priscilla's potential, so I wouldn't be so quick to just go "10%>80%" when there were so many more factors involved in that situation.
Fearing Priscilla is an entirely wrong way to characterize what was really Teresa's self-doubt. Teresa expressed more fear for having wounded that bandit the first time than at any time she faced Priscilla with her self-doubting.

Zsych

2008-02-28, 20:20

If Priscilla was incompetant at fighting she'd have been downed in seconds by someone experienced, so I'd say that where she was probably still immature, she wasn't actually bad in any sense. The 10% - 80% shows that even with vast power, probably exceeding the abyssals with the monster that she herself was, Priscilla wasn't able to beat Teresa.

... Not that it matters any. The real question is, 'Can Clare beat an abyssal?'
I'd go with 'maybe in meat grinder mode', although the next chapter is going to really show us. If she does well against a #2 and it looks like she could've managed by herself, then she probably has a decent chance against an abyssal. Otherwise, if the team together casually beat down Agatha, then at least the team can probably take on an abyssal.
... if its hard for them, then things are looking ugly.

stringer13

2008-02-28, 20:30

Rigaldo's fight against Isley was probably immensely one sided, and probably was immensely boring, for Isley.

and don't forget that when Priscilla fought Teresa, she was incredibly inexperienced, was not fighting with a clear head, and was fighting a person who was her superior in everything but potential.

Teresa herself expressed fear in Priscilla's potential, so I wouldn't be so quick to just go "10%>80%" when there were so many more factors involved in that situation.

On a completely different note, I am looking foward to the new chapter. :D
Rigardo said that he had not had such a good fight with anyone but Isley when fighting Clare.

And for Teresa vs Priscilla don't forget what Irene said. One of the two powers was much stronger. It wasn't like 80% of Priscilla = 9% percent of Teresa. Also Teresa wasn't trying to kill Priscilla.

If Teresa was so scared of Priscilla then she would have killed her when she attacked again. However she tried to help her which led to her death. SHe admitted that Priscilla had a lot of potential but the only reason why people thought Priscilla would surprass Teresa is because Teresa could not sense her. However they were wrong because of Teresa's Yoki.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-28, 21:06

One can come back that neither was Teresa in a war-footed mindset, this being ultimately the reason for which Priscilla survives. So the potential of both to be badasses were equally suppressed by their corresponding factors.

A person who is calm and in control will always trump a berserk opponent, no matter the intent, especially when their powers are comparable in the first place.

Fearing Priscilla is an entirely wrong way to characterize what was really Teresa's self-doubt. Teresa expressed more fear for having wounded that bandit the first time than at any time she faced Priscilla with her self-doubting.

Teresa used the words "Its scary" to describe Priscilla's potential, you take it as self doubt (which is still a sign of Priscilla's power nearing Teresa's own) but I take it for what she says, it was intimidating.

If Priscilla was incompetant at fighting she'd have been downed in seconds by someone experienced, so I'd say that where she was probably still immature, she wasn't actually bad in any sense. The 10% - 80% shows that even with vast power, probably exceeding the abyssals with the monster that she herself was, Priscilla wasn't able to beat Teresa.

She wasn't incompetant for the first part of the fight, just outmatched, the berserk portion of the fight however was a terrible way to fight someone of Teresa's calibur, especially when she had yet to develop her own potential.

The problem with other experienced warriors is that Priscilla would completely outclass them, but she didn't completely outclass Teresa, she was trying to play the wrong game on the same playing field.

... Not that it matters any. The real question is, 'Can Clare beat an abyssal?'
I'd go with 'maybe in meat grinder mode', although the next chapter is going to really show us. If she does well against a #2 and it looks like she could've managed by herself, then she probably has a decent chance against an abyssal. Otherwise, if the team together casually beat down Agatha, then at least the team can probably take on an abyssal.
... if its hard for them, then things are looking ugly.

The 4-awakened limb clare might have a shot at taking an Abyssal, and just if (IF) Miria team beats down Agatha, doesn't mean that they can take down an Abyssal, the difference of Rigaldo and Isley is an example.

Rigardo said that he had not had such a good fight with anyone but Isley when fighting Clare.

He never said that in the manga, anime only once again :P

And for Teresa vs Priscilla don't forget what Irene said. One of the two powers was much stronger. It wasn't like 80% of Priscilla = 9% percent of Teresa. Also Teresa wasn't trying to kill Priscilla.

Despite several disagreements over it, she never did specify who had the greater power, and when they crested the hill all attention was on Priscilla first.

If Teresa was so scared of Priscilla then she would have killed her when she attacked again. However she tried to help her which led to her death. SHe admitted that Priscilla had a lot of potential but the only reason why people thought Priscilla would surprass Teresa is because Teresa could not sense her. However they were wrong because of Teresa's Yoki.

Just because Teresa was intimidated by Priscilla's potential doesn't mean that she would mercilessly slaughter her, especially after her "awakening" by Clare.

Teresa herself expressed both doubt and fear when comparing her own power to Priscilla's potential note, that this means that the Priscilla who was fighting her at that time was no where near the Priscilla that could have been, or that is now after her awakening.

But I have debated this topic to hell and back, about 7 times. So I'll leave it at that :P Feel free to make your own judgement.

stringer13

2008-02-28, 21:29

Despite several disagreements over it, she never did specify who had the greater power, and when they crested the hill all attention was on Priscilla first.

Just because Teresa was intimidated by Priscilla's potential doesn't mean that she would mercilessly slaughter her, especially after her "awakening" by Clare.

Teresa herself expressed both doubt and fear when comparing her own power to Priscilla's potential note, that this means that the Priscilla who was fighting her at that time was no where near the Priscilla that could have been, or that is now after her awakening.

But I have debated this topic to hell and back, about 7 times. So I'll leave it at that :P Feel free to make your own judgement.

I thought it was supposed to be common sense because after that we see Teresa dominating Priscilla.

I hope evryone can stop talking about the Priscilla vs Teresa thing. It's been done so many times that its starting to get frustrating. :frustrated:

khryoleoz

2008-02-29, 00:03

A person who is calm and in control will always trump a berserk opponent, no matter the intent, especially when their powers are comparable in the first place.
Not the point. Priscilla was equally calm, collected, and in control until she found that Teresa was the one in control of the fight. The point is where you say Priscilla lacked the skill and experience to have been a match for Teresa, Teresa was on the other hand not in the proper mode to deal her enemy the blow she ought to have dealt. In other words, Teresa herself wasn't very committed to what she absolutely needed to do, which made Priscilla more powerful than she really was comparatively.

Teresa used the words "Its scary" to describe Priscilla's potential, you take it as self doubt (which is still a sign of Priscilla's power nearing Teresa's own) but I take it for what she says, it was intimidating.
If you want to interpret that to mean "I'm scared" then be my guest. The next time you hear that someone has a bout of depression, you might as well think that he has a contest with a hole or dip on the ground. Teresa used the expression to describe the potential of Priscilla's power with due respect, not to express the state of her own mind and emotions under the frightening pressure of Priscilla's might. And you'll have to make up your mind also. Was Teresa calm and in control or was she in fear of Priscilla? These are mutually exclusive emotional and mental states. And never mind that Teresa ultimately follows through with a resolution to spare them all and face them again in the future. That certainly shows she was pissing her pants dreading over Priscilla.

Archmagination2002

2008-02-29, 01:23

The Teresa/Priscilla argument is getting old.

Teresa was MUCH stronger than she let the Organization know... I doubt if the Organization knew that she easily defeated an awakened Rosemary. I think she hid the evidence that Rosemary awakened too.. Teresa didn't want anybody know how strong she really was.

So when Alicia's handler states that Alicia is the strongest in their annals he doesn't know what he is talking about.

derelict88

2008-02-29, 02:42

Priscilla Vs. Teresa.

Well I find all the post regarding the above mentioned rather funny. There is already foregone conclusion to that fact. The fact is Priscilla KILLED Teresa by decapitating her.

Who cares if it was a fluke stroke. A kill is a kill. Just like in a 100 meters race, nobody cares if a person win the race by a hair... No point talking about the moon alignment or the wind current on that day. A win is a win. Period.
On that day Teresa died, Priscilla didnt have any help from anyone when she killed Teresa. Boo hoo hoo that alot of us cried when Teresa got wacked but a fact is a fact. That fact is Priscilla DID KILL OFF Teresa... nuff said.

Please dont go around shouting the percentage of whatever because I repeat. Priscilla kill Teresa.

Lets talk about something else shall we. Just plain silly talking about a dead legend taking revenge that could never be... worst formulating a percentage that will never be.

My two cents.

Gooral

2008-02-29, 03:04

Teresa used the words "Its scary" to describe Priscilla's potential, you take it as self doubt (which is still a sign of Priscilla's power nearing Teresa's own) but I take it for what she says, it was intimidating.

So?

I will quote one of my first replies to Your post:

(...)
I personally believe that Teresa strongly implied that Priscilla could become stronger then her, she did refer to her as being a potential monster
(...)
She referred like that ["monster"] to Rosemary too but she was overwhelmingly stronger :heh: (read: it proves nothing).

The only thing Teresa could be scarred of was releasing too much of her power, defeating Priscilla wasn't an issue, defeating her at 0% youki release was. If Isley and Luciella had such destructive power how would the fight between Teresa and full-power-Priscilla look like? I think Teresa had such scene in mind when she said that.

Sunater

2008-02-29, 04:35

It`s not much of a discussion really.
Theresa had many chances in defeating Priscilla and she didn`t. She said it her self that she was becoming soft, and Irene said that back in the days Theresa would never hesitate in chopping Priscilla`s head off. Theresa is much more stronger then Priscilla. Therese managed to defeat the four without even using her Yoma powers.
Therese is stronger.Period
There`s nothing more to it.

whitewizard

2008-02-29, 06:06

I would just like to comment about the teresa vs priscilla thing. Its pretty obvious teresa was stronger than priscilla DURING THOSE TIME, 1 vs 4 w/o releasing her yoma and yet no one can land a hit on her, 80% priscilla against 10% teresa which makes it more obvious, yes there were some other factors to consider like priscilla being emotionally unstable but still there's a big gap of difference of power there, teresa was just way out of her league DURING THOSE TIME. But eventually has the capacity to exceed her which both teresa and irene knew all along. So we really cant tell who will win against a 1 on 1 match if teresa was still alive. But i'll just have to disagree on the "killing of teresa tells it all" The only reason she was killed was becoz she became weak after taking clare. She became soft so to speak and that weakness killed her not priscilla. She could have easily taken those 4 out but didnt and why her head was sliced off was because she showed mercy (again another weakness of hers) to priscilla by returning to her original level which then priscilla took advantaged of..thats all;)

I cant wait for the next chapter to come out the suspense is killing me :mad:
But i gotta say this anime is one of the best i've seen so far, i wish they didnt end it in the anime series. This could have been as popular as the other animes but too bad the anime series ended early.
By the way can anybody tell me why every chapter comes out only evry month unlike naruto and bleach?

chibamonster

2008-02-29, 07:11

Well I agree with you sunater and whitewizard :D. But I am also heavily biased in all things Teresa.

And I don't know the higher purpose for why Claymore is published in Jump Square as opposed to Weekly Shonen Jump (with Bleach and Naruto), but that is just the way it is. Monthly publication of magazine = monthly manga. It was in Shonen Jump for a few months for the extra chapters because it's previous magazine got canceled but now it is back in a monthly publication. There is an audible buzz in the forum of people who want Yagi to switch to weekly releases but we'd need his address or phone number to express our plans and concerns effectively. If you find them let me know I want to put together some fan mail stuff.

I fear that this post might be deleted, but if I remember correctly the Monthly Chapter threads are the almost-anything-goes threads so I'll just cross my fingers and hope the pendulum is closer to happy With-Clare-Teresa than Slaugher-mode-Teresa.

Newhope

2008-02-29, 07:29

I don't get where your getting the vast power difference from she was stronger but not by a vast amount her yoki senseing just made her seem a lot stronger.

The Teresa vs Priscilla showed us just how powerful Priscilla was, she was basically a complete noob who could stand toe to toe with the most powerful claymore to have ever lived, that in itself says alot about just how powerful she was.

The whole Teresa fearing Priscilla thing I think don't really think its fear but more like concern for the furture.

lsley

2008-02-29, 08:14

Lets just collect some things:

- Theresa died, we don't know if she couldn't block the attack because she was distracted, or because it was too hard to read prissys movements and from this short distance she couldn't do anything. --> It's a fact that she's dead but we don't know what happened in her mind.

- It was said there was a "monster" inside priscilla, that came out after her awakening --> you can't compare her strenght from before awakening to afterwards --> we have absolutely no idea how strong she is, we just know that from matters of strength she's stronger than Isley.

And what do we learn from it? We don't know anything about anyones actual strenght, we just know that x is/was stronger than y but even that says nothing, because there are great developments in claymore.

And a little annotation: Its strill written by Yagi-sama and why should he misleed us? Since it's his story and not ours, so telling others about the strenght or something like this is in the end not our job, and since everything was said by now, I hope this discussion comes to an end everybody can live with.
If you can't, then ask Yagi-sama if you were right :D

Tempest35

2008-02-29, 08:21

...and so the 'Priscilla/Teresa' claymore landmine has been reset and buried...until the next noob comes along and 'steps' on it...XD

Maybe we should include that in the Claymore Forum rules : Under no circumstance is mention of 'Priscilla', 'Teresa', 'potential', and 'power' to be in the same post. Things will get messy and the local mod will just hand you a broom to clean it up - if you can.

khryoleoz

2008-02-29, 09:59

irvinethearcher

2008-02-29, 10:11

i think you refer to rosemary, but that was at the beginning and if you have read claymore carefully, you'll realize that they allways searched for the corpses if there was something suspicious, so they'll have realized that rosemary was awake.
and even if they wouldn't have, they'll have realized it after they sent the hunting squad, since a mib was in the town too.

The corpse argument is a good one. BUT
1. rubel asked theresa: "Did you finish the clean-up?"
So there were no corpse to search for the org, because theresa already finished the clean-up.
2. In the databook, which is org property and represents all the informations the org collected about theresa, are written the following sentences:

Great Talent:
Acceptance of the black card of the original number one:
While she didn't have a particular friendship with rosemarie, the original #1,
she promptly accomplished her missions. She displayed the proper consciousness of her role as the new #1.
=> They talked nothing about an awakening in it, so they don't know anything about it because it is simply absolutly unthinkable that a claymore could beat an awakened number one in the orgs point of view. I mean, she wasn't even wounded, only her uniform was messed up a bit.
But there is an interesting thought i have. IF you can PROOF that the org knowed about the rosmarie awakening you automatically proof that rosemarie wasn't AO because the org would've sent theresa after riful, isley and luciella if they knowed that. The org knowed the stats of the AO's as claymores. They could compare them to rosemaries stats and so they could make an prediction of the strength of an awakened rosemarie. Riful mentioned that a strong claymore normally become a strong AB and otherwise. Exceptions: Priscilla and Clare. Priscilla blocked her yoki even as an AB and clare's for limbed awakening was surprisingly strong. Do your best...you will be greatly rewarded;)

even if they wouldn't have, they'll have realized it after they sent the hunting squad, since a mib was in the town too.

Sorry, don't get your point, please explain.

The indirect show of disrespect, and her taunting of Rosemary is what leads me to my conclusion, while she never did the same thing to Priscilla, she even regarded Priscilla as a serious threat.

Perhaps, but theresa was beyond AO that's a fact, so it is not a contradiction to my assumption that she showed a bit disrespect to rosemarie even if she was AO.

That is all unknown, as Teresa's combat ability is highly bloated by Pre-emptive Yoki-sensing.

Yeah we don't know for sure therefore i used the word "probably". But remember, theresa twisted rosemaries arm with only one hand off, so this indicates(not proofs) an "S" in strength.

It is also an assumption that Rosemary IS AO level.

never said anything else.

The Teresa vs Priscilla showed us just how powerful Priscilla was, she was basically a complete noob who could stand toe to toe with the most powerful claymore to have ever lived, that in itself says alot about just how powerful she was.

Theresa was more experienced but she was still a "noob" too, from what we know so far. That's because priscilla was the one and only serious adversarie theresa EVER had as far as we know. If you fight only 6 year old girls you can not gain any experience or fighting skills from it. okay, rosemarie was 13 year old girl but still not even a sparring partner for theresa.
What makes Theresa and Priscilla in the end IMO evenly gifted is the thing with priscilla's block.

Tempest35

2008-02-29, 15:58

Such posts needn't be disallowed. They just have to be framed in such a way that conform to the facts, that Teresa > Priscilla. :p

Then there wouldn't be any need for chibamonster, Gooral, and myself to get all riled up and go on the defense.

I was just messing. ;

Of course someone's gonna constantly trip the wire that ignites the war time and time again but hopefully it will just dwindle into 'friendly fire' no more.

This really should push me to gathering up all avaliable data on this and making it an essay... I'll work more on it when I get my new comp in here in a few hours...XD First, a house to clean. :heh:

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-29, 16:10

That would certainly be helpful :P

If you need any help from my side of the arguement, just give me a pm :P

mosmos

2008-02-29, 17:10

クレア｢ラボナでいきなり强大な妖気が感じられたと思えば、懐かしい妖気まで感じられたから来てみたら正解だな｣
ガラテア｢谁だ？何が起こった…？｣
アガサ｢组织の戦士？しかも７人も？｣
色付き｢谁…？助けが来たの？｣
男(名前忘れた)｢あ、あれはまさか!?｣
アガサ｢まあ谁でも良いわ。邪魔をするなら死になさい｣
触手をミリアーズに向けるがクレアの风切り？で一瞬で细切れにされる。
アガサ｢なっ!?｣
ガラテア｢またアガサの一部が消灭した!?一体何が起こってる？｣
クレア｢ミリア、ガラテアを頼む｣
クレアがアガサに特攻。ミリアが新幻影を使ってガラテアの元に。
ミリア｢かつてのNo.3も无様な姿だな｣
ガラテア｢谁だ？私を粛正に来た新たな戦士か？それにしても妖気を全く感じない｣
｢いや、ここまで近付いてようやく感じ取れる程度か？本当に组织の戦士か？｣
ミリア｢いや、组织の戦士でも无いただの通りすがりさ｣
ガラテアに刺さってた触手を切断し、救出。
ミリア｢取り敢えず、あいつを何とかしないとな｣
クレアとアガサが戦ってる方を见る。
ミリア｢ユマ、シンシア、ガラテアを頼む｣｢デブネとヘレンは色付きとそいつ(ミアータ)を｣
デネブ｢了解した｣
ヘレン｢おいおい、こんなやつら放って置けば良いだろ｣
ミリアもアガサの元へ。风切り？で触手をバシバシ切るが流石にクレア押され気味。ミリア到着で何故か戦い中断。
アガサ｢一体何者よ贵方たち!?｣
クレア｢答えたはずだ。これから死に行く者に名乗る必要など无いと｣
アガサ｢随分とナメられたものね｣
ミリア｢さて、少し闻きたい事があるんだが｣
アガサ｢何かしら？ここまで马鹿にされて见逃せる程お人好しじゃないわよ｣
ミリア｢何故贵様が生きている？｣

Synria_

2008-02-29, 17:12

Are you guys arguing over who is stronger between Teresa/RoseMary/Priscilla? I tried skimming over ALL THAT BS, but it's still hard to follow what the heck you guys are talking about. Someone some up what the discussion is about please.

So that I can join in :)

Mikke

2008-02-29, 17:26

Lol, I'm sorry to break it to ya man, but those guys are competing amongst themselves on who knows more so I don't think they'll go easy on you. They could let you join their secret cults, but you'll have to swear your loalty to them. :D

@mos; u sure it's fake?

mosmos

2008-02-29, 21:31

@mos; u sure it's fake?

No Doubt About it. It's fake:p

stringer13

2008-02-29, 22:48

Any idea of what it says? IS it possible for claymore to come out this week?

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-29, 22:56

Well I'll sum it up, while trying to be fair to both sides. (and probably fail)

The crux of the argument is Teresa's actual level of power (which is a big fat ?)

Due to her demolishing of Rosemary (who used to be #1) people believe she could do the same to any of the Abyssal Ones, so Rosemary < Teresa, so Teresa > Abyssal Ones.

My problem of this argument is that we have no idea how Rosemary would actually compare to the Abyssal Ones, she could have well been closer to Rigaldo or Agatha's strength level, as # is not always a good indication of strength, especially across generations.

-----------------------

Priscilla enters the argument (naturally) when we consider she lost at 80% to Teresa's 10%, and yet Priscilla is shown absolutely dominating Isley later on.

My problem with this argument is as follows:

1) Priscilla was inexperienced and no where near her full potential as a warrior, and it is only natural that she would lose to the far more experienced Teresa, who's own potential was probably just below, if not even with, Priscilla's own.

2) Priscilla was not fighting with a clear head when she was using her Yoki to its max, thus making her a more sloppy, and inefficient fighter.

3) Awakening causes a HUGE leap in power, so just because Teresa at 10% > Noob Priscilla at 80% does not mean that Teresa > Abyssal Ones.

4) Priscilla appears to have a mental block on her own abilities (as shown by both the stat book, and by Extra chapter 3) that could have well barred her from a majority of her own potential. Thus the reason she did so poorly against Isley at the start of the battle, but completely demolished him in the end.

5) Teresa expressed her own doubts on taking Priscilla should she develop her potential.

------

Please note, I'm just summarizing my part of the argument for Cipher7, not arguing with you guys (I have already done so :P )

Oh, and if you want to enter into the Circle-of-Eternal debate, you just need to sell your soul to Yagi and religiously read Claymore, about once a month just to keep your memory fresh.

Oh, and select your patron goddess (Miria, Teresa, Galatea, etc) that way you always have your own banner to wave.

Leader of the Miria cult myself :P (Tempest being my second-in-command)

Galatea and Teresa's shrines are both lead by a mob, so expect to be overwhelmed in any argument were they are judged unfavorably on.

derelict88

2008-02-29, 23:04

Any idea of what it says? IS it possible for claymore to come out this week?

Translated: Wait till the bloody manga hit the newstand than some nice guy will come along and scan em beautifully. IT will be posted as raw. Before you know it, a bunch of nice lads will swarm allover it and get it translated into english... Until than please keep all emotional outburst in check.

Sorry my japanese is a lil rusty but I think I got it somewhat right. But than I had a lil too much to drink before reading it.

Dont have to thank me. I was glad to be of service.

Cheers! Hehehe :D

FateAnomaly

2008-02-29, 23:10

Even if Rosemary at no.2 level, the ease at which Teresa took her out means she is easily at AO level. The real question is whether she is at Priscilla awakened level. Being part of the Teresa faction, i of course say she is.:p

Fenrir_valindri

2008-02-29, 23:27

Not exactly like Isley would have had a hard time squashing Rigaldo, not to mention Priscilla didn't even look like she was trying.

But I don't blaim you for your fanatical Teresa worship, its pretty common place, and Teresa does deserve alot of praise.

I personally hold Teresa at AO level when going all out, and at Priscilla's level (not stronger) if she had awakened.

derelict88

2008-02-29, 23:37

I personally hold Teresa at AO level when going all out, and at Priscilla's level (not stronger) if she had awakened.

Hate to burst your bubble but that is just pure speculation ya? Because if this is a fact, I must have missed an issue or two of Claymore where Teresa might have been awaken. Did Yagi pull a fast one while I wasnt looking. There are only that many issues to fit as many number of fingers on a hand about Teresa. Again I stress that she is D.E.D dead. She is no better than a door knob these days. A has been. No longer amonst the living. Lets cross that line and talk only of the living in mr Yagi's wonderful comic ya?

FateAnomaly

2008-02-29, 23:57

Lol, of course its speculation. Thats why he says "personally hold".

Fenrir_valindri

2008-03-01, 00:06

Should read my post more carefully, as FateAnomaly said, it is just my opinion, which just happens to differ from a majority of Teresa fans.

Sci-Fi

2008-03-01, 01:03

Any idea of what it says?

Just use this translator program...it's comes pretty close:
http://dictionary.reference.com/translate/

IS it possible for claymore to come out this week?

Depends on when the issue goes on sale. Just be patient, it'll be worth the wait.

khryoleoz

2008-03-01, 01:35

If we're agreed that the summary is just a recapitulation of major points for the benefit of Cipher7 and not a rehash of overstated arguments, then I hope no one will mind my posting a rebuttal that simply responds to the points that were already made, which I find easier to do than starting from scratch.

My problem of this argument is that we have no idea how Rosemary would actually compare to the Abyssal Ones, she could have well been closer to Rigaldo or Agatha's strength level, as # is not always a good indication of strength, especially across generations.
What is essentially argued here is that Rosemary MUST NOT have been as strong as the Abyssal Ones because Teresa, without even releasing, showed that she can dominate Rosemary with just raw power alone. Because Teresa had a harder time with Priscilla who was not yet awakened when they fought but who was awakened and dominated Isley during their fight, Rosemary could not have held the same power as the Abyssal Ones.

If the rank # is not always a good indication of strength, for some reason it must be sufficient when it concerns the Abyssal Ones that they were simply #1 when they awakened. Even though Rosemary herself made the rank of #1, for whom the same cannot be said about Rigald, that fact alone MUST not be enough. And if we can't ascertain that Rosemary was on the same level as Isley, then by default we MUST assume that she was no weaker than Rigald but not stronger than Isley. So there is a double-standard that MUST exclude Rosemary from club AO membership.

Ultimately, considering the ranks as being completely relative and without basis on some scale offers no meaning to the valuation of the strength of anybody, even the Abyssal Ones, because the very reasoning by which one casts doubts upon Rosemary's power also subjects the AOs to it. It doesn't matter that Riful was number one, as she may have only been as strong as another generation's #2, including Rosemary. And who is to know otherwise? We've not seen Riful fight Isley. Just because she thinks she can take him on doesn't make that true.

Priscilla enters the argument (naturally) when we consider she lost at 80% to Teresa's 10%, and yet Priscilla is shown absolutely dominating Isley later on.

My problem with this argument is as follows:

1) Priscilla was inexperienced and no where near her full potential as a warrior, and it is only natural that she would lose to the far more experienced Teresa, who's own potential was probably just below, if not even with, Priscilla's own.
Irene later makes remarks that is careful to compare the two on the same terms. Her words are ,"I don't believe it. Teresa repelled Priscilla's massive strength using just enough Yoma power for her eye color to change. That's the true nature of Teresa's strength". Had Irene's observations had been about Priscilla's inferiority revealed by her lack of experience, the statement would have been, "How pathetic. Even with Priscilla's massive strength, she just pussyfoots around that she might as well bend over for Teresa. That's the true nature of Priscilla's weakness".

Of course Teresa's experience was one of the decisive factors. Had Priscilla been as battle tested as Teresa, Teresa's loss would be attributable to her having already grown soft.

2) Priscilla was not fighting with a clear head when she was using her Yoki to its max, thus making her a more sloppy, and inefficient fighter.
Teresa herself had not been fighting with a clear head ever since she killed those bandits. She had even allowed her earlier decisive victory to become the occasion for her inevitable, decisive loss. If we must argue that Priscilla would have been more effective had her mental state been stable, then we can argue that had Teresa's wits been intact and she was not preoccupied with Clare, Teresa would have demonstrated the gap between them much earlier. It is conceivable that this Teresa would have denied Priscilla any inch that got her as far as she did.

3) Awakening causes a HUGE leap in power, so just because Teresa at 10% > Noob Priscilla at 80% does not mean that Teresa > Abyssal Ones.

4) Priscilla appears to have a mental block on her own abilities (as shown by both the stat book, and by Extra chapter 3) that could have well barred her from a majority of her own potential. Thus the reason she did so poorly against Isley at the start of the battle, but completely demolished him in the end.
Priscilla's instability was not cured upon awakening. I see this affecting her performance both against Isley and against Teresa so that there are parallels. She began both fights seemingly on equal terms, then she suffers defeat when Isley and Teresa took their game a notch higher. Then once Isley and Teresa thought they had her and let their guards down, Priscilla does the unexpected and wins. It reinforces that Priscilla is not one to whom any break must be given if one is going to defeat her. And it also shows that Teresa isn't going to be an Abyssal Level threat by simply changing her eye color.

But if the subject is about potential, then Teresa's potential can be > Abyssal Ones. It would just be a matter of where in the scale of Teresa's release that that potential can be realized. Even if the correlation of release and power is not linear, the 10/80 ratio is still helpful if it's not unreasonable that Teresa maintained her dominance also by a show of force and not solely on the grounds that Priscilla was utterly ineffective so that she might as well have bent over for Teresa. Against the AOs, she would just have to tap into her potential more. By how much more is ???

5) Teresa expressed her own doubts on taking Priscilla should she develop her potential.
I maintain Teresa's expressions as stemming from doubt. You have characterized Teresa as in fear of Priscilla's potential.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-03-01, 01:50

Hehe, I knew if I posted first that would happen, but fair enough :P

We both know each others arguements back to front, so pointless for us to discuss it, hoping that Tempest will deliever on his compilation that he has planned.

The only Rebuttal I want to bother with is this:

I maintain Teresa's expressions as stemming from doubt. You have characterized Teresa as in fear of Priscilla's potential.

Teresa shouldnt have described Priscilla's potential as "scary" if she didn't fear it. Teresa's doubt is a sign of Priscilla's possible strength, not that Teresa was a self-doubting person.
We had seen no previous indication that Teresa would doubt her own ability to handle someone, unless that someone happened to be powerful enough for her to make a mental note, especially using such words as "scary."

But enough of that, waiting on the next chapter :heh:

Tempest35

2008-03-01, 02:08

Give me a break, it's hard enough going through all the posts going back to the individual Episodes alone~! :heh: Maybe I should just stick with the posts made in the 'Power Levels' thread...yeah, that's much easier...

ergon

2008-03-01, 03:13

Just use this translator program...it's comes pretty close:
http://dictionary.reference.com/translate/

I tried out that page and it wasn't very easy to read actually so I just wrote a brief summary :D (its not very spoiler-ish)

Glancing at it quickly, it says something like Clare starts using windcutter and chops off another leg, while Miria and Galatea have a little chat. A soldier says "...it can't be...thats..."(the person forgot the soldiers name, I'm guessing it would be sid recognizing clare ;) ) miria decides to help clare and asks yuma and cynthia to help galatea and deneve and helen to get the other two. Agatha, Clare and Miria chat some more.

irvinethearcher

2008-03-01, 05:29

My problem of this argument is that we have no idea how Rosemary would actually compare to the Abyssal Ones, she could have well been closer to Rigaldo or Agatha's strength level, as # is not always a good indication of strength, especially across generations.

Galatea said in "the witch's maw" part 5 episode 45 that "in the historie of the organisation are 3 disastrous cases in which a claymore ranked #1 awakened. One in the era of male warriors, one in the era of female warriors..."

So it seems that EVERYTIME an #1 awakenes an new AO is born. I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule of thumb but normaly an #1 which awakens will be with high probabilty an AO according to galateas statement.

stringer13

2008-03-01, 12:46

Translated: Wait till the bloody manga hit the newstand than some nice guy will come along and scan em beautifully. IT will be posted as raw. Before you know it, a bunch of nice lads will swarm allover it and get it translated into english... Until than please keep all emotional outburst in check.

Sorry my japanese is a lil rusty but I think I got it somewhat right. But than I had a lil too much to drink before reading it.

Dont have to thank me. I was glad to be of service.

Cheers! Hehehe :D
Sorry can't help myself. THANK YOU! :D

Enara

2008-03-01, 19:04

I'm going to sleep until claymore 78 is out bye-bye

derelict88

2008-03-02, 00:41

Should read my post more carefully, as FateAnomaly said, it is just my opinion, which just happens to differ from a majority of Teresa fans.

I did read your post carefully. :D

My argument wasnt targeting yours alone. My post was a general reference to say even in speculation, it should be based on things that happen. I mean there should be a point of reference.

For example Teresa awakening..., that is something that never happen. So, how can that even be a point for speculation? It is so confusing that it could cause a misdirection or misinterpretation.

I quoted yours because like you said in another post. Rosemary was hard to gauge due to the fact that we have no idea how she would compare to the Abyssal Ones and you went on to say she could well be closer to Rigaldo or Agatha's strength. Beautifully argued but things started to look funny when it comes to all things Teresa...

1) She didnt awaken or at lease not in any manga that was published. So how does that help to point out how strong she is in awaken form? She could very well be a 4 eyed midget with hairy cheeks that spew gallops of saliva all over the floor and chanting I am da bomb and have stubby fingers that cant even hold her Claymore when she awaken. That is my point... we dont know. Of all the arguments and speculations... this one alone is so freaking hard to justify.

2) She lost no matter what was the situation during the battle with Pris. I mean she should have sense yoki running inside Pris to justify being lil more alert. I mean Teresa is old skool. She should know by now what is expected in any given battle. In short she lost that battle fair and square. Somehow she lost her common sense and lost dearly.

Take for example Chess. The whole world know that Viswanathan Anand should by right be the reigning World Champion but no instead Vladimir Kramnik is. They square off once and in that game he lost a match... all the games that he played for the whole year and a half amount to nothing. Because there is a clear defining point... He lost. Same thing can be said about Teresa vs. Pris.

Look I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone here. All I ask is that it be nice if there was some sort of logic or a point of reference being refered for speculations, say or telling within a post.

I also agree that everyone has a right to an opinion but than Fenrir, from all your post you hardly do blind speculations... it seems you too is pulled into the Teresa quagmire. :P

Anyways I said what i meant to say. If I have slighted anyone than please accept my apology.

Well the silver lining to all of this is that... the next installment will be due less than a week's time. Wooot!!!!

Dere

Torri_fay_torren@hot

2008-03-02, 01:13

xChaos

2008-03-02, 03:30

Wow....
The things I'm sure of.

20 years from now........

Sephiroth will still have a fan club

They will still be making Power Rangers

And the the whole Teresa vs Priscilla thing will still be going on.

Oh well I hate change :heh:

who's sephiroth? o.O and what's with the power rangers?
oh, i do seem to always not know what this current topic is talking about...XO

chibamonster

2008-03-02, 03:35

who who who... who is sephiroth? Hmm... 1997, 9 years ago. You would have been 4 at the time xChaos (according to the age under your avatar), so I guess there is no harm in you not knowing :D. It really isn't an anime reference but a video game reference. Sephiroth (http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4586/sephiroth8jy.jpg) was the final boss and all around hardcore bad guy in Final Fantasy 7. He very powerful, seems to appear from no where, and sometimes just ignores you because you do not matter (well, sometimes). He does some pretty shocking stuff. If you want to know more just type in sephiroth into google and it will spit out volumes about the guy.

And who doesn't like the power rangers? My brother got a full body power ranger spandex suit. It is awesome.

Edit: I forgot what year it was. Dang it. Well I feel really stupid. So it is the future already huh? Sometimes I write 2003 on stuff then close the 3 to make it an 8. Wasn't so easy last year to turn that 3 into a 7.... 1997 would have been 11 years ago making you only 2.... Even more of an excuse.

yezhanquan

2008-03-02, 04:13

who who who... who is sephiroth? Hmm... 1997, 9 years ago. You would have been 4 at the time xChaos (according to the age under your avatar), so I guess there is no harm in you not knowing :D. It really isn't an anime reference but a video game reference. Sephiroth (http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4586/sephiroth8jy.jpg) was the final boss and all around hardcore bad guy in Final Fantasy 7. He very powerful, seems to appear from no where, and sometimes just ignores you because you do not matter (well, sometimes). He does some pretty shocking stuff. If you want to know more just type in sephiroth into google and it will spit out volumes about the guy.

And who doesn't like the power rangers? My brother got a full body power ranger spandex suit. It is awesome.

Agreed. Youngsters who have never heard of FF7 won't know who Sephy is.

Zsych

2008-03-02, 05:57

If he's 13, he's under the Claymore age-restriction :P

chibamonster

2008-03-02, 06:00

That she would be. Although there is no way to tell if anyones personal info is correct, but hey, what better female role models than the ones in claymore? I want to be like them. Come to think of it, when I was 13 my friend and I, high from watching Dragon ball Z, rented some VHS tapes and watched ghost in the shell and akira. I was confused for a few days and then I was changed for life. I have been addicted to anime ever since. I think we even walked to the rental store. Sometimes when I am at a live action movie I think to myself, "This would be much better animated." It only worries me when I think the same thing when I look out a window... :uhoh:

Zsych

2008-03-02, 06:05

LOL. Being trained alongside male Claymores would be more interesting... and uglier.

chibamonster

2008-03-02, 06:10

See, I wouldn't mind training with the claymore chicks. Nope not at all. Being with all those Male Claymores while they are going crazy and releasing their youki and awakening does not sound like the kind of party I would be interested in. Although I would probably would have awakened after watching a dragon ball Z episode years ago. It's a good thing I don't have immediate easy access to some super human power. Although I do still hope to gain or release a power some day like that...

Zsych

2008-03-02, 06:12

At the cost of being a misfit likely not considered a real comrade by any of them?

chibamonster

2008-03-02, 06:19

I'm not sure what kind of girls you are used to being around but I think I would get along fine with the claymores. :D Even the 3 AB's who came to scout Pieta mention it isn't every day they are surrounded by so many women. Although I would not wear the uniform. Nope. I would have to refuse. Maybe I would take a hint and dress like Sephiroth. I just hope I would be a powerful Claymore though. Does forgetting what year it is have an effect on how powerful I would be as a claymore? Would I get to pick my own symbol? I'll have to think of one.

Zsych

2008-03-04, 00:31

In a traditionally female organization, in a part reserved for females, a lone guy part of it would probably be considered kinda gay.

Torri_fay_torren@hot

2008-03-04, 01:52

Maybe you could be an MIB. The only good one. :D

Anh_Minh

2008-03-04, 02:51

Or the only lecherous one.

chibamonster

2008-03-04, 03:11

Rubel seemed pretty comfortable asking Clare to turn around so he could check her out so at least a lecherous MiB would have company. Although it probably was more concern for her being stupid and putting herself at risk once again. Maybe. Maybe I could be a renegade MIB cuz sending the claymores off to die all the time would probably grate on me. But if I were an MiB, some claymores would get some rather interesting missions. That is for sure.

Maybe I could be an unawakened Male from the previous era's (fat chance, I'd awaken in like 10 minutes after getting angry at a computer game, probably counter strike) and just show up and save claymores in trouble or towns with youma issues, sort of like the ghosts but I am thinking more like Sephiroth which would mean I would probably burn towns I did not like and spend an inordinate amount of time looking for my mother...

But if I was an AB, I hope I would have a sense of humor about the whole thing. Even AB's need entertainment right? Depending how powerful I was I could do all manner of funny things... like taunt the trainees... Oh no, I don't feel so good. It must have been something I ate... UAGHHH! (turn into my awakened form) Don't eat the chicken kids. Then lumber off into the woods singing a silly song leaving them as traumatized as possible. Maybe dress like an MiB to screw with them.

Torri_fay_torren@hot

2008-03-04, 04:02

Rubel seemed pretty comfortable asking Clare to turn around so he could check her out so at least a lecherous MiB would have company. Although it probably was more concern for her being stupid and putting herself at risk once again. Maybe. .

You noticed that too!! That was creepy man. I was like what the creap am I reading.(Kept reading though, morbid curiosity.) And then he was like, I wonder what Raki would think of that body. And it was clear what he thought of that body. Frankly I'm suprised Clare even turned around. Then again she seems clueless sometimes.

Maybe I could be an unawakened Male from the previous era's (fat chance, I'd awaken in like 10 minutes after getting angry at a computer game, probably counter strike) and just show up and save claymores in trouble or towns with youma issues, sort of like the ghosts but I am thinking more like Sephiroth which would mean I would probably burn towns I did not like and spend an inordinate amount of time looking for my mother....

Mybe you and Miata can both look for your mothers together.

Ps I was five when FF7 came out and I still know about Sepheroth. That person had no excuse :D

Zsych

2008-03-08, 18:30

Rubel may have been talking about the frontal Claymore deformity though... that Raki would spew if he saw Clare naked.

Defiled one

2008-03-16, 09:24

Rubel views Clare as cute, and that was when she was a teen. But I wouldn´t be suprised if the MIB took advantage of the situation and #$% a girl and them #$%% with a bit of $%# with some #$% >:3 After all, Clare was taught how to smile like a prostitute. Comes with the work :cool:

Pardon my french though

derelict88

2008-03-17, 23:16

Rubel views Clare as cute, and that was when she was a teen.

How do you know Clare was a teen. Please let us know from where you got that fact.

chibamonster

2008-03-18, 01:05

I think defiled one was talking about when Rubel said his ugly duckling had become so cute in the extra chapter when Clare was a trainee. No way to say she was a teen for sure, but she had not finished puberty yet. Claymores might age slower but either it seems like she was a teenager in the extra chapter (even if the only way to judge is by cup size). No way to know for sure though.

HappyFunTimes

2008-03-19, 17:19

How do you know Clare was a teen. Please let us know from where you got that fact.

It's the omake where Clare finishes her training and becomes a claymore.

derelict88

2008-03-20, 00:09

It's the omake where Clare finishes her training and becomes a claymore.

Let me repeat my question in case they cant remember the 1st time.

How do you know Clare was a teen. Please let us know from where you got that fact.
So far chibamonster (blessed be thy name) answered it succinctly. Cheers mate once again you da man.

Exactly what chiba said... nobody knows for a fact. Naturally I am ignoring the cupsize bit (you naughty boy, you ^.^)... I know for a fact some 30 something are as flat as the airport runway or some only bulge during PMS than it cease to exist for the next 20 days. ROFL - Jokes aside I concur the point of before and after Clare bustline in Chapter one onwards but still...

HappyFunTimes

2008-03-20, 18:11

Let me repeat my question in case they cant remember the 1st time.

How do you know Clare was a teen. Please let us know from where you got that fact.
So far chibamonster (blessed be thy name) answered it succinctly. Cheers mate once again you da man.

Exactly what chiba said... nobody knows for a fact. Naturally I am ignoring the cupsize bit (you naughty boy, you ^.^)... I know for a fact some 30 something are as flat as the airport runway or some only bulge during PMS than it cease to exist for the next 20 days. ROFL - Jokes aside I concur the point of before and after Clare bustline in Chapter one onwards but still...

Ohohoho.

If you were hunting for a noob to mock, I'm afraid you picked the wrong target.

"How do you know Clare was a teen. Please let us know from where you got that fact."

Although the first question rendered a questioning towards the veracity, the second line appeared to have imperatively restated the request, so I looked to that instead as your intention. You ask, there, for the location where the statement (which I assumed to be dominantly "Clare [described] as cute," since you liberally bolded the object and moreover the predicate objective) was discerned, and I tendered you that information. However much a writer may fault a reader for their understanding, it is ultimately the writers burden to be clear.

I appreciate the notion however that simply by repeating yourself we should suddenly have a newfound understanding of what you're saying. It's like it makes this new psychic link where we can suddenly read your mind and tell. Oh wow, if that were the case, what a world this would be. Still, it is in fact thanks to that last paragraph that I actually understood the recontextualization you were trying to make.

Just to be sure, I'd like to point out that random readers in the internet are not, in fact, as much as you might like them to be, psychic, and that if there's something we're not getting, it's probably your own fault for doing a lousy job of explaining yourself. http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.global/icons/icon14.gif

See, this is what I hate about stupid smart-asses. They like to think they're the only smart ones.

Thank you for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts though.*

So lets move on to that question you wanted answered so badly, shall we?

It's true that we don't have anyone describing how old Clare is in that chapter, so all we can do is infer her age by her features and chronological order, etc. This is nothing unusual and I fail to see the discussion point there.

Next, if we are going to attempt to identify her age, it's actually not a bad idea to look to cupsize because there is a noticeable difference there, suggesting that she hadn't fully matured yet, leading to that conclusion of Clare being in the "teens." Your point that she might be PMSing non-stop is interesting to consider, though.

The next indicator is the look on Clare's face. The current Clare by and large has just a serious expression on her face, but the Clare in the omake, although she possessed the same fierce determination, had more of an innocent and inquisitive look to her, which is a trait commonly associated with youth.

Fighting ability is the next indicator. Clare was ill-suited and needed to use a cheap strategy to kill one yoma. The Clare of the manga was already capable enough to kill four yomas without help. This constitutes a significant gap in skill, suggesting that quite some time has passed.

Another way we can discern this is simply by virtue of a timeline comparison. Clare who's still in training is of course much younger than Clare who's graduated and has a "history" of going rogue as a Claymore.

Of course, none of this is, as you say, conclusive, but it is suggestive.

Another point to consider is that Claymores age differently, so the whole concept of "teen" can be mooted anyway.

Sadly, the data books don't shed any light on this, just an evaluation of Clare's combat ability and rank as of 7 years ago.

*Is this overkill? Of course.
__________________
Nemo me impune lacessit.

derelict88

2008-03-21, 23:05

Ohohoho.

If you were hunting for a noob to mock, I'm afraid you picked the wrong target.

"How do you know Clare was a teen. Please let us know from where you got that fact."

**delete of useless info**
It's true that we don't have anyone describing how old Clare is in that chapter,
**delete of more useless info**

Thanks! Exactly what chiba said. Thank you for concuring.

Yup, there wasnt any info pertaining to her age. Therefore we can conclude there isnt any certainty as to her age than, she could very well be a late bloomer for all we know. Than again she isnt human, we cant be for certain about anything when it comes to the norms in their regards. I am sure given a chance someone else will point out the useless point of her hair length. Again we dont know.

/sigh

In short next time just answer the bloody question and cut those mumbo jumbos. Rofl.

Edit:
BTW, if you are offended by my posting earlier... you have a major character problem mate, it was not meant to hurt let alone pick a fight. I suggest you follow my example and IGNORE the post that 'offend' you and read the post that you enjoy. In my post I ask for FACT. If there wasnt any fact than an answer need not apply. So far your long winded reply did not show any fact pertaining to her age. Cheers.

<3

Dere