Clannad - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Clannad, Episode 17.

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Episode 17 will be broadcasted this 8th february at 1:55 AM (Japan Time Zone),
which means this 7th february at 4:55PM (GMT 00).

[Kristen]

Um, Klash...
Episode 17 will be broadcasted this 8th february at 1:55 AM (Japan Time Zone),
which means this 7th january at 4:55PM (GMT 00).
I don't want it to be January again. :(



Anyways, my prediction is odd for this one. I think it's actually going to be the start of the Tomoyo arc. The previews are known to deceive.

[Klashikari]

Um, Klash...

I don't want it to be January again. :(
*geh* that's what happens when you believe you fixed everything in the pasted template.
*edit* nothing happened... nothing. *hypnose*.

[Leo_Otaku]

Yeah they are misleading XD Tomoyo had a good story ^-^

OT anyone seen newtype scans of the upcoming episodes?

[Proto]

I guess this will be a turning point episode, in the sense that it will be here that KyoAni will tell us the direction they will take for the rest of the series. Personally I'm looking forward as to what approach will be the one they will be choosing... I just hope my predictions aren't true ^_^

[Takuto19]

Yeah i think there gonna have to start one of the arcs this week, with Kyou, Nagisa and Tomoyo's left the'll be 3-4 episodes each so i won't be suprised if they cut down an arc or merge 2 of the arcs left.

Looking forward to it though as i do every week heh.

[Rookie103]

Awesome! I think this episode is going to be a good one, I have a feeling!

[Kristen]

Awesome! I think this episode is going to be a good one, I have a feeling!

If it is, then the streak continues. I don't know why, but it seems whatever the anime, episode 17 is always an amazing episode, and usually really important.

AKA, my expectations this week are REALLY high.

[Mirrinus]

Really? What other episode 17's are you thinking of? For me, it's been usually episode 12's...and occassionally 9 for shorter series.

[Kristen]

Really? What other episode 17's are you thinking of? For me, it's been usually episode 12's...and occassionally 9 for shorter series.

Da Capo 17, FSN 17, Kanon 17, Higurashi 17, etc. And LS 17 was one of my favorites in that series.

I love episode 17's. They're always so good. :)

[Espiecakes]

Last night I had a dream about the exact details as to what this episode was about... except I can't remember it now. ><

[Rookie103]

If it is, then the streak continues. I don't know why, but it seems whatever the anime, episode 17 is always an amazing episode, and usually really important.

AKA, my expectations this week are REALLY high.

Yeah, episode seventeen of Kanon 2006 was awesome.

[Nite]

Just seeing screencaps right now

As expected, it is heavily Tomoyo based. However there's a bunch of scenes with Kyou and Ryou too.

Everyone's favourite Yukine spell is included this episode. And it's with Kyou!

Episode ends after Tomoyo and Tomoya fighting some delinquients. (Fuko does appear at the beginning)

Episode 18 preview seems rather vague. One screencap shows Kyou and Ryou in casual clothes with a bento, another with Kotomi in casual clothes, and another with Tomoya walking with Tomoyo.

EDIT: After watching the episode on nicovideo, it seems Tomoya took the blame for the fight and gets suspended for that instead of what happens in the game. Kyou, Ryou, and Kotomi visit him with food. And Tomoyo explains why she's trying to become student council president.

[Klashikari]

after watching the raw, let's see :
Episode 17: Bullet Summary + Screencaps (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2008/02/08/clannad-episode-17/)

An impressive and arguably one of the best entwinning routes episode. Many things happened, yet the flow between "rival" routes isn't breaking the momentum.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Clannad now goes down in history as the best dating sim adaptation ever.

[SidVicious]

I will miss Nagisa in this entire episode. :(

[Klashikari]

Clannad now goes down in history as the best dating sim adaptation ever.
*breathes a bit*... No, CLANNAD is NOT a dating sim... nowhere near of it. Even as "ren'ai" it isn't exactly fitting that kind of category.

[harukamae]

Wow, I really enjoyed this episode!

OK Tomoyo and Kyou are neck and neck as my favorite female characters - the scenes where she was waking the boys up were hilarious. Despite the fact that Sunohara's my favorite character, I felt so bad for Tomoyo when they were walking through that area of town to scare those guys off. The scene where Kyou and Okazaki were locked in was both awkward and hilarious.

All in all, I agree - KyoAni really is doing well with combining the routes seamlessly!

[teachopvutru]

after watching the raw, let's see :



It is early in the monring, and a very familiar voice is waking up Tomoya. The said person opens the curtains. Tomoya is shocked to see Tomoya in his room, waking him up!


This part made me chuckle lol... :heh: That exclamation mark at the end fits there just, perfectly. Funny typo ;).

[iamandragon]

Wow, three arcs at the same time...did KyoAni hire superman to work for them, or something like that?
I love how they altered Yukino's storage room curse to make it even more idoitic...Go Tomoya!

[Kristen]

This part made me chuckle lol... :heh: That exclamation mark at the end fits there just, perfectly. Funny typo ;).

Well, it happens sometimes. Just think about Agent Smith in the Matrix. How did he wake up?

14 hours to go until I can see this! So near, yet so far...

[*Forte*]

I don't know JPese, so I'll wait for SS's work.
*Try not to view spoil*

This episode will focus on their future huh, I think so though the preview. But as far as
Kotomi: Are you buly?
Ryou: yes.
Kotomi: Are you bully?
Nagisa: yes.

I think KyoAni made a very good fun of me, anyway, they created Okazaki Tomoya the Natural Liar xD

[Kaisos Erranon]

*breathes a bit*... No, CLANNAD is NOT a dating sim... nowhere near of it. Even as "ren'ai" it isn't exactly fitting that kind of category.

I know it's not your average gal game at all, but it IS a gal game. Just a very complex and beautiful one.

[Anacone]

And now I think again that they should had shortened Fuko arc... Here happened so much that there was not much time to digest everything... Sure it was good ep.

[Noppapana]

oh god clannad suprises me every week .. it is even better then kanon06

[monir]

Reminder: Folks, please keep all your discussion to the content of the episode itself. Revealing any spoilers from the game that has yet to happen in the anime (regardless of the fact that those events may or may not occur) will simply lead to a ban. This is an anime-only thread. If you feel the urge to unload your Clannad knowledge, do so in the appropriate thread that is designated for the experienced Clannad-fans.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Screenshots can do wonders to what you expect for the episode.

Never ever seen Tomoyo smile like that before, and the shots of Kyou and Tomoya in the storage room certainly look delicious. Good comedy too, if what I read was very accurate to describe their situation. :heh:

As expected by many, Nagisa was put out of comission with a fever and might not be back in the spotlight anytime soon. The interweaving of arcs seemed to be done quite nicely, but then I'll have to wait for the subs to really understand what's going on.

[ThoHell]

This was absolutely a Tomoyo episode. Poor girls just seems to naturally make enemies out of every guy. Guys hate her or just jealous of her strength? It has got to be completely jealousy.....I don't think there is anything to hate about her!

So the fight for Okazaki intensifies. Nagisa is out before it even started!

Tomoyo is really taking charge, I'm sure her and Okazaki would make an interesting pair, but that most likely won't happened. A lot of screen time for Tomoyo in this episode was a BIG ++++++, she seems so innocent by being so straight forward, but still has her very girly side.

Oazaki is feeling very lonely without Nagisa and is slowly realizing his feelings.

WHY WAS KOTOMI NOT EVEN IN THIS EPISODE?

LOL...Fuko with her weird entrances and speeches and leavsure.

The scenario between Kyou and Oazaki was absolutely the best part of this episode. I had quite a laugh. Completely see a side of Kyou never seen before, was loving it. I think she was a little happy with the scenario......LOL that was great! Actually I know she was DAMN happy with the famous situation of being locked in the storage room with the person you liked....LOL look at her brief ticked off face with Okazaki explains his reason for saying sorry. WTF, why did Oazaki start stripping? These two would make an awesome couple.

I think there would be 3 good pairs with Oazaki: either Nagisa, Kyou, or Tomoyo. Kotomi and Ryou don't go so well with him. Ryou is her worse match I think, even Kotomi is a better match than her. But I'm sure we all feel that the likely pairing will be Oazaki and Nagisa.

Ending was very unexpected.....poor Okazaki! Next episode looks to be a great episode as well. Can't wait! I'm guessing Oazaki gets suspended and gets a home visit from all the lovely girls!:heh:

[blitz1/2]

Anyone with me that the Fuko reappearances are useless?

No offenses to Fuko fans: But Fuko should stay out/dead. She ruins the tense moments

[ThoHell]

Anyone with me that the Fuko reappearances are useless?

No offenses to Fuko fans: But Fuko should stay out/dead. She ruins the tense moments
I think that's the purpose of her character now, a tension reliever/humor.

[velocity7]

Fuuko's random appearances also occurred in the game, just FYI.

Also, this episode at about 16:00 basically explains the entire reason I went from translating Yukine's route to Kyou's route in the CLANNAD TL project. :heh:

[siber222000]

i don't know about u guys, but i think this was best episode so far

[Decagon]

So sad Kotomi's role is still background. Kyou's deredere mode was mind-numbing. My god. And what I wouldn't give to have Tomoyo waking me up every morning! Looking forward to the next ep, as the preview seems to shed any semblance of drama from the fight at the end of the episode.

... Anyone think they might go for an open-ended ending? While it seems Tomoya is really stuck on Nagisa, it could be said he might not be any closer to her than the others due to the different nature of all their relationships.

[Leo_Otaku]

Was an alright episode I'm with blitz on the Fuko cameos. They have picked some bad places to put her I thought...pretty random >.>

Overall it was pretty good I would have liked to see Kyou and Tomoyo's routes better spaced. I really liked it when Botan eats Ryou's bad cooking, should have been longer.

I keep thinking second season >.>

[Kinny Riddle]

This just gets better. So this is how they squeeze in Tomoyo's story with as much as they can without making it feel shallow, even with the romance bits taken off. With Nagisa gone, Tomoya instantly becomes an uncontrollable girl magnet. Kyou finds herself
(or is it her sister?) in competition with Tomoyo as both sides step up their campaign for Tomoya's attention. Yet despite all these happenings, the direction makes it explicitly clear that Tomoya has no one else in mind besides Nagisa.

Knowing how inflexible the current student council are, it's natural Tomoya would eventually think of wanting to get Tomoyo elected.

We finally have Yukine's best moment: the "trapped in sports gymnasium with a person you think of" spell. And Tomoya has to think of Kyou of all people. I never realized Mitsui (Fuuko's former classmate) would be the one to make the spell work. :D

Once the spell is in effect, I have three exaggerated words to say about this scene.

KYOU-CHAN KAWAII~~~~!!!! :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

Tomoya's attempt to strip off in order to release the spell is also pure LMAO.

And finally, thanks to Sunohara bringing Tomoyo to the old school district and provoking all the delinquents to come seeking Tomoyo, Tomoya ends up having to take the fall for her so that she may become student council president. Small price to pay for Tomoya in order to bring the Drama Club back, and he's got nothing to lose anyway since he's always being tagged a "delinquent" anyway.


Nearly forgot to mention, Fuuko once again makes her nonsensical intrusion. Well this time, it's based straight from the game, for this is one of the Tomoyo scenes in which Fuuko appears.

Next week would be Tomoya's period of exile, as seen in Tomoyo's story. And this time, it won't just be Tomoyo that comes to visit, but also Kyou, Ryou and Kotomi as well. (Dunno about Nagisa)

[cshard]

:heh:

Although I did feel some parts of the ep were paced a little too fast... hell, how can I criticise and episode with so much Kyou AND Tomoyo goodness?

Looks like it's gonna be Nagisa + Kyou + Ryou + Tomoyo's combined routes now.... plus a little Yukine it seems. Most definitely the best choice now, seeing how we've already gone past the halfway mark.

Tomoya is a lucky, lucky bastard. Waking up to such a sight in the morning... XD I whole heartedly agree with Tomoyo that he should be grateful... although she's probably not talking about what most of us are thinking. :heh: Hmm, considering the preview, plus Tomoyo turning up in the morning, wonder what the oyaji will think about so many girls coming to visit his son. XD I vote for "Good job, son!"

The first lunch with the Fujibayashi twins was a little ordinary I must say. Poor Ryou must be bursting a blood vessel from all that blushing.

Tomoyo seems to be taking quite an interest in Tomoya's love life now... gonna get hard for her to say that she's not interested in Tomoya if things continue this way.

Sunohara has a good plan for once I suppose, although as usual, there's a distinct lack of ethics going on. :heh: Dragging Tomoyo through those places is just asking for it. At least he did have to pay for it... literally. XD Must have been an expensive cafe.

Poor Tomoya. No match for resisting Tomoyo early in the morning. XD As for Sunohara, pity there's no more hit counter, although I'll bet they add it in for the DVD...

Botan, Food Taster Extraordinaire. High poison recovery rate to boot. XD Love the faces of the three of them.

Tomoya was rather forlorn sitting in the club room thinking about Nagisa... Kinda like a lost pup I suppose.

Ah Yukine, she of the nonsensical lucky charms. :heh: And today was one of my favourites too. XD Tis' fortunate it was not the Sunohara version... :heh:

I find the way that KyoAni gave Tomoya a pretty good reason to be concerned with Tomoyo's Student Council presidency bid quite interesting. A pretty good way to deflect any potential emotional clashes for Tomoya's own emotions. After all, it's pretty clear to the viewer who he misses the most.

If there's one question I would like to ask Key right now, it would be, "Why was this Tomoya x Kyou scene NOT in Kyou/Ryou's game route, but in Yukine's???" Either way, kudos to KyoAni for stuffing it in here. :heh: For all her "reluctance" Kyou really wanted Tomoya to do something to her really badly, and I have no doubt that many doujin have already been created for this scene alone. :heh: A shy Kyou is most excellent. As for Tomoya's final piece of the "charm", I was thinking to myself, "the guy's got his hot bloodedness turned up in the wrong direction". That was a major hilarity overload. :D

I think Tomoya hit the ball on the head a long time ago regarding Sunohara ever joining a "party". XD True to form, his offer to be an ally was answered with a resounding kick in the butt from Tomoyo. XD Good job Tomoyo!

Me wonders if Tomoyo would have been ok the way things were going... but I suppose I do have faith that she would have likely won. Her fame has to count for something I guess. XD And considering how many of the girls are going to visit him at home next episode, I'd say that the appearance of the teacher ends up being quite a lucky occurance indeed. :heh:

[kimchipride]

AHAHAHAHAHA

That was a very funny episode.

10/10 One of the best episodes so far

[Hypernova]

ah Kyou is giving Kagami some tough competition for the position of tsundere queen.

Considering how over used the locked-in-a-room plot device is mad props have to be given to KyoAni for making it work beautifully and then some.

Tomoyo's arc feels a bit too sudden to me though. If she had some appearances in the past 4~5eps (even if just beating Sunohara) her entrance would have felt much smoother.

[amoirsp]

Anyone with me that the Fuko reappearances are useless?

No offenses to Fuko fans: But Fuko should stay out/dead. She ruins the tense moments

Of the ones you've seen so far (this would be the third), this is the only one that actually existed in the game. (first one included antler cameo, second one I did think was bad timing.) Maybe that's why I wasn't as bothered in the appearance in this episode as soon as I remembered that that particular scene was essentially where the Fuuko randomness manifests from anyways.

However, you can see a clear pattern. She appears when her friends are either in distress or conflict with something else, be it a machine, pressed to join a club not intended to, or what occurred in this episode. (note: direct conflict, not internal conflict, not fighting-for-okazaki-conflict.) Kyoani probably noticed this pattern and so they throw her in every 2 - 3 episodes since the arc ended so far. Like stated, she appears in tense moments.

The other clear pattern is that it is under random timing. Unless you know it's going to occur ahead of time, I don't think one would know exactly when it would come in. Ironically, because it is so random, and such a huge contrast to the "conflict" situation, it nearly kills momentum because it totally mismatches the situation.

This episode was eventful. Each day was virtually maximised!

Ironically Nagisa out of commission generated a much faster pace in momentum, more certain humour allocation, and more opportunity cost scenarios.

Not really an irony, but I just thought the fainting, while a really serious scenario, was not really emphasized in the episode. It's good since it allowed a lot of comedic action to manifest, as well as progress with like, three girls, but bad in the sense that it makes the faint itself not seem like much.

It seems like a slight irony since in other routes like Fuuko and Kotomi's, he does his best to resolve the situation. I suppose the difference is that if someone falls ill, you can only help initially and then hope they recover, which is not a scenario previously present.

Yay for more Yukine, since based on what's been seen of her, she appears rather one dimensional, or not particularly important/significant/prominent. Yet when merging is done, such content mixed by kyoani made quite the good momentum. I'm expecting more of this (the "help the person in need" thing, which was a very clear trend already, but the kyoani execution of her character is quite interesting).

As usual, high pace, eventful, versatile (heck it uses almost everyone like last episode). Satisfying indeed.

[Khaos]

10/10, great arc interweaving...I just thought...wtf, now Ryou too?? I didn't even consider her to be part of the "harem" as well, she's one of the characters I like the least.

The gym storage room-scene was hilarious, this proved that Kyou truly deserves her first place in the saimoe-nominations. She almost begged him to do something to her. :heh:

Being woken up by Tomoyo in the morning, lucky bastard Tomoya!

Kyou and Tomoyo gained a lot of points with this episode.

Fuko, well, I loved the Fuko arc, really, however after ep 9 being the most intense and emotional in the whole series so far I find Fuko's comedic appereances somehow overdone. For me, the Fuko comedy ended with ep 9 and it shouldn't have been revived in such a cheap random way before she's really woken up.

[Joachim]

man that was a ride, who would have thought kyo ani will merge tomoyo and kyou route together (making them kinda like love rival)

and yea the storage room... KYOU BE MY BRIDEEE arghhh tomoya you lucky bastardd

[Ascaloth]

Watched the TWH-Sprocket sub of Episode 17.

You know what's the only thing that's keeping me from giving this episode a perfect 10? Fuuko. I didn't mind her previous couple of appearances that much, but even I think that the timing for this particular instance was just not good. And I have to grapple with the fact that it's actually the only Fuuko Summon that actually appeared in the game as well....

Otherwise, too bad Nagisa's KO'd, but great Tomoyo, great Kyou, great almost everything. 9/10 for this one.

Blog article coming tonight. And just an advance heads-up; I believe that I will be quoting wholesale from some of you here, so if you do not wish to be quoted, please leave me a PM or reply to me here before the article goes up. :)

[Mentar]

Except for Fuko (digs up the "Cranial Extraction" spell from MtG) an awesome ep. Really really great. Tomoyo gained alot points with me, now that she finally shows a bit of a playful side to complement her serious one, but... IMHO Kyou stole the ep. "The" scene was absolutely wonderful ^_^

velocity7, get the patch finished, willya? There are 2 paths I really wanna play ;)

[hai_san]

together with Kyou alone in the storage room, her lying down:love: ... omg FXXX Tomoya you are DAMN too lucky:frustrated:

"Curse you, Curse you, Rain of Curse to you Tomoya"

[Ruhisu]

together with Kyou alone in the storage room, her lying down:love: ... omg FXXX Tomoya you are DAMN too lucky:frustrated:

"Curse you, Curse you, Rain of Curse to you Tomoya"


I thought that I will die in this scene :love::love::love:
I am glad that Tomoyo really likes Okazaki but...
THIS BASTARD is too damn lucky! :D
I wish to be woken up by Tomoyo :)

[Espiecakes]

The way Tomoya shouted out "SOUDA!" during the storage room scene was gold.

[Rookie103]

Pefect Ten.

Storage room scene was win.

[bevan]

I voted during the halfwaypoint of the episode as I didnt really feel comfortable with the starting of the episode until Yukine came in..

The rest after that was classic.

Kudos to KyoAni for merging the fight scene to coincide with tomoya's suspension, and man was that 'stuck in a storage room' scenario hilarious.

Looks like Kyou will eventually reveal her true feelings, having seen her went through an emotional struggle within herself in the storageroom.

Although I voted 7/10 previously, I declare it has been upgraded to 10/10.

Thumbs up to KyoAni :)


Tomoyo-sama and Kyou-sama FTW

[MeoTwister5]

Having actually played the game, I'd have to give the episode an 8, which is essentially the lowest rating I've ever given to a Clannad episode.

The fact that, for me, 3 important sections of 3 different arcs had to be compressed into a single episode has rapidly altered the pace of the storytelling. Whereas Kotomi and Fuuko got as much fleshing out as they did in the game in the series, with 6-7 episodes left and compressing at least 2 stories (Yukine is a minor character in the series, which is a deviation from the game) suggests a few things to me:

1. That both Tomoyo and Kyou/Ryou got devalued into less important characters, and therefore suggests that Fuuko and Kotomi were probably more important canonically.

2. We're bound to see major cuts in both their stories to make a Nagisa ending have any sense at all, since the hints of romance does indeed follow their game stories, but to make a Nagisa ending (which is canon I think) plausible you'd have to:

Tomoyo would still become student council president, but they'll have to end it then and there to prevent them getting romantically involved.

Kyou would still try to get Tomoya to go out with Ryou, but they'll have to alter that and have Tomoya reject both of them instead of actually getting romantically involved with either of them.

However, the series does follow the game in the fact that for both Fuuko and Kotomi's routes, romance was never a critical plot element, as they were secondary to Fuuko's wish and Kotomi's isolation. This made it more plausible for KyoAni to flesh them out in the anime because you could bring out the chunk of their stories without compromising Nagisa's story (again, assuming it is canon).

This is in contrast to Tomoyo and Kyou's story, though I won't give details even in a spoiler box for the sake of those who haven't played the game, because romance was a big factor of their plots.

My main problem with the way KyoAni might go with the remaining episodes is how they will successfully compress the remaining important arcs WITHOUT compromising the canon ending (again, if they follow it). Some of what Kyou/Ryou and Tomoyo had done to Tomoyo in this episode (again I won't detail for spoilers sake) they actually did to him in the game too. This already points that their arcs, paralleled simultaneously, are well on their way.

I'm really wary of how KyoAni will choose to do the remaining episodes. They'll have to present their stories, removing a romantic angle, without compromising the integrity of the plot.

Again, of course, assuming they did follow the canon story for Clannad. They followed it for Air, so I assume they'll di it here as well.

[Klashikari]

Whereas Kotomi and Fuuko got as much fleshing out as they did in the game in the series, with 6-7 episodes left and compressing at least 2 stories (Yukine is a minor character in the series, which is a deviation from the game) suggests a few things to me:
Yukine is officially a minor character. Her involvement and importance is hardly as big as the 5 main girls. Having a arc about her doesn't flesh her as "lead character".

1. That both Tomoyo and Kyou/Ryou got devalued into less important characters, and therefore suggests that Fuuko and Kotomi were probably more important canonically.The number of episodes is completely unrelated with importance, let anon canonic matter.
Kotomi and Fuuko's arcs are hardly mergeable with any other arc aside of Nagisa's. Even so, the amount of events with them are largely bigger.

2. We're bound to see major cuts in both their stories to make a Nagisa ending have any sense at all, since the hints of romance does indeed follow their game stories, but to make a Nagisa ending (which is canon I think) plausible you'd have to:

Tomoyo would still become student council president, but they'll have to end it then and there to prevent them getting romantically involved.

Kyou would still try to get Tomoya to go out with Ryou, but they'll have to alter that and have Tomoya reject both of them instead of actually getting romantically involved with either of them.

However, the series does follow the game in the fact that for both Fuuko and Kotomi's routes, romance was never a critical plot element, as they were secondary to Fuuko's wish and Kotomi's isolation. This made it more plausible for KyoAni to flesh them out in the anime because you could bring out the chunk of their stories without compromising Nagisa's story (again, assuming it is canon).

This is in contrast to Tomoyo and Kyou's story, though I won't give details even in a spoiler box for the sake of those who haven't played the game, because romance was a big factor of their plots.

My main problem with the way KyoAni might go with the remaining episodes is how they will successfully compress the remaining important arcs WITHOUT compromising the canon ending (again, if they follow it). Some of what Kyou/Ryou and Tomoyo had done to Tomoyo in this episode (again I won't detail for spoilers sake) they actually did to him in the game too. This already points that their arcs, paralleled simultaneously, are well on their way.

I'm really wary of how KyoAni will choose to do the remaining episodes. They'll have to present their stories, removing a romantic angle, without compromising the integrity of the plot.

Again, of course, assuming they did follow the canon story for Clannad. They followed it for Air, so I assume they'll di it here as well.It isn't a matter of cut but adaptation.
Cutting would still imply the direction of the said route, which is impossible considering the series pattern.
The adaption is required to stay faithful, but still giving a proper lead up to the said goal the scripters planified.

Hence, the routes are altered as they should be, I don't see how you can avoid such decision.

[MeoTwister5]

Then the issue is how the animators can adapt the the remaining arcs while remaining faithful to the essence of their stories and not sacrificing anything important just to make it fit with the remaining limited time.

The number of episodes is completely unrelated with importance, let anon canonic matter.
Kotomi and Fuuko's arcs are hardly mergeable with any other arc aside of Nagisa's. Even so, the amount of events with them are largely bigger.

I probably worded that section of the post wrong. What I meant was that if it took those length of episodes to completely present Kotomi and Fuuko, I'm wary of how they're going to do the same magic they did for both of them for Kyou and Tomoyo. Not only do we have 6-7 episodes left according to the official series length, they'll have to share screen time with each other, and eventually Nagisa will be getting back. Though I agree that in terms of length the Kyou and Tomoyo stories aren't as long as the previous two, the remaining time might still be too short to get it done. MIGHT be.

How exactly will they bring out their stories without cutting drastic corners is my beef. I thoroughly enjoyed both Kyou and Tomoyo's arcs in the game, and I don't want to see a hackjob on their stories. :frustrated:

It isn't a matter of cut but adaptation.
Cutting would still imply the direction of the said route, which is impossible considering the series pattern.
The adaption is required to stay faithful, but still giving a proper lead up to the said goal the scripters planified.

Hence, the routes are altered as they should be, I don't see how you can avoid such decision.

Yeah the alterations and adaptations were done, but as I said, it was a bit more manageable with Fuuko and Kotomi because the romantic angle was not a critical plot factor, and in fact really only came near the end.

This is unlike Kyou and Tomoyo, whose stories had large romantic inclinations. The fact that their stories were majorly rooted on this make it difficult to alter/adapt them without sacrificing chunks of their stories. Fuuko's and Kotomi's arcs pretty much ended the way they did in the game minus the romance because you can present it without this angle, but if you want the canon ending (assuming again it is followed), you can't let Kyou and Tomoyo's stories conclude the way they did. The main adaptation KyoAni will have to do is conclude their stories WITHOUT majorly altering or compromising their originality.

Damn. Maybe being ignorant of the story is better. I had to come into watching the series with certain expectations because of it, and it's affecting the way I expect the series to progress.

[Kristen]

For one thing, they kicked Nagisa out of the cast far too quickly. I think that they could have made all of that before the credits and immediately after about Nagisa falling ill a bit more dramatic and stuff, even by changing the music around a little bit. As it seems now, it was just like saying "Oh, by the way, Nagisa's sick. Now for the rest of the story!"

The arc interweaving is still seemless, as usual, and I love it. :)

But, this episode just seemed to be missing something. It was a lot like episode 2 in that it was a fine episode and I can't really say anything that was really WRONG with it, but it just seemed to be missing that magical touch.

And please, more Tomoyo, less Kyou! I like Tomoyo better.

8/10

[*Forte*]

I thought I could watch Tomoya's fighting =( But it's okay well...

I like Kyou and Tomoyo equally, they have their own stories. Somehow maybe that's the time to kick Ryou out.

And the spell really works, doesn't it rofl

[grey_moon]

Kyou looked hot with Tomoya half naked in the equipment shed.

Sunnohara and Fuko kick arse, Tomoyo better be scared!

Poor Nagisa :(

[MeoTwister5]

Well after rewatching the episode it's pretty suggestive that Tomoya isn't even remotely interested in Ryou/Kyou/Tomoyo.

Which is a good thing, since it won't screw up the story (canonically). Of course they'd still have to end their arcs properly, so I'm upping my rating of the episode.

And again, how many of us are lucky enough to get locked up in a storage room with a hot member of the opposite sex?:heh::heh::heh:

[*Forte*]

I'll use that spell =))

Fuko's appearance now getting boring...I hate to admit that but it's true...

[Deathkillz]

I'll use that spell =))

Fuko's appearance now getting boring...I hate to admit that but it's true...
From boring to hate for me...why can't she stay dead! and after such a touching departure, these random appearences are really killing her character for me :frustrated:

That asides really good ep. MORE TOMOYO is win for me. I can't wait to see more of her story :D

Sunohara is still as wtf as ever :heh: but now I really like his character. The guy is made and always seem to attract bad omen - tomoya on the other hand is a chick magnet, seriously.

The gym store scene was zomg...haha kyou reveals everything without tomoya doing anything XD Seems like she is considering going for tomoya but was cut short, dam >_<

[TomoyoSakagami]

10/10 Loved this episode.

Waking Tomoya up every morning is hilarious. Also getting locked in the room with Kyou, that was hilarious as well =P

[Khaos]

From boring to hate for me...why can't she stay dead! and after such a touching departure, these random appearences are really killing her character for me :frustrated:


She is not dead...but I'd prefer if she just woke up and joined them in a normal way and not those random silly appearances.

[Proto]

The fact that, for me, 3 important sections of 3 different arcs had to be compressed into a single episode has rapidly altered the pace of the storytelling. Whereas Kotomi and Fuuko got as much fleshing out as they did in the game in the series, with 6-7 episodes left and compressing at least 2 stories (Yukine is a minor character in the series, which is a deviation from the game) suggests a few things to me:

1. That both Tomoyo and Kyou/Ryou got devalued into less important characters, and therefore suggests that Fuuko and Kotomi were probably more important canonically.

I see it much more from the POV that Fuuko was an arc that greatly helped develop Nagisa and her relation with Okazaki. Same with Kotomi's, her arc permitted the inclusion and partial development of Ryou, Kyou and Nagisa, so in a sense they were already intertwined from the game, meaning no major modification was needed.

The problem is that Kyou's and Tomoyo's arc develop to the exclusion of everything else, so if they were to adapt them directly they would be arcs where every other character disappears completely from the scene.If you take it from that POV you can accept their giving Fuuko and kotomi their own allotted time, since their stories permitted to heighten Nagisa's and Ryou's development bar, being consistent with the limited time this CLANNAD adaptation got. They needed to do it this way since: There are only so much episodes left/ They cannot really adapt the stories directly from the game for obvious reasons so they need to get a little creative/ Kyou and Ryou already got a little development/ The only one getting the short end of the stick in all of this would be Tomoyo :p

From boring to hate for me...why can't she stay dead! and after such a touching departure, these random appearences are really killing her character for me
She is not dead...but I'd prefer if she just woke up and joined them in a normal way and not those random silly appearances.

Being random, silly and a mood reliever are their whole point, so if you feel all those three things at the same time then Fuuko is properly doing her work :heh:

[MeoTwister5]

In retrospect, the fact that Tomoya was thinking about Nagisa the entire episode despite the advances of the other girls is already indicative where the plot is going to. Again, of course, he'll have to drop them properly and not by some contrived plot device.

And for the record, I rather enjoyed Fuuko's random intrusions in the game, and for some reason it's much funnier in the anime.:heh:

[velocity7]

velocity7, get the patch finished, willya? There are 2 paths I really wanna play ;)

Patience is a wonderful thing. :heh:

[Takuto19]

10/10

Loved this episode, especially the gym closet scene which was great, nice to see them doing Tomoyo's arc, been looking forward to it for a while, can't wait til next weeks.

Fukos random appearences are great, i like them but they can sometimes be a mood killer like in this episode heh, i would of prefered they left her out though but to be honest it doesn't bother me much.

[X207]

i give this ep a 9.5/10. they really should stop it with random fuuko appearances :frustrated:. im glad lots of interesting situations an personal backgounds were shown for both of them. lol ryou still cant cook. is tomoyo really that sparse in the game that she doesnt appear too often?

[Klashikari]

is tomoyo really that sparse in the game that she doesnt appear too often?
No, but the problem in the game is "other girls" are sparce if you are with someone.
Here is the list of the girls you see depending of their route:
Nagisa: can see everyone in her route, except Kotomi
Fuuko: Nagisa (obviously)
Kotomi: Nagisa, Kyou and Ryou
Tomoyo: Nagisa and Kyou (but kinda rare)
Kyou/Ryou: NONE (yeah, once you are in their route, you don't see any other girl)

Basically, they have to balance each girl screentim aside of Nagisa and the current one, so it will make sense in term of story progression.
During all this time, Tomoyo was in fact rpeparing her elections.

[mikesince83]

Damn. Maybe being ignorant of the story is better. I had to come into watching the series with certain expectations because of it, and it's affecting the way I expect the series to progress.

I think you're right to some extent. I fully expected him to finish the series with Nagisa from the first episode but since I know nothing about the game and how involved the arcs are, any action Tomoyo and Kyou get in the show is a pleasant surprise.

I figure these next few episode in the arc will be my favorite since they've started spending a little extra time on Tomoyo and Kyou. The two of them are by far my favorite characters so an episode showcasing a little development from both is phenomenal. While I am slightly disappointed they don't each get a personalized arc I do agree with most of the others in that to be consistent for an ending with Nagisa, Tomoya shouldn't be getting involved beyond friendship with other girls.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Resistance to becoming more fanboy before episode 17: 60%

Resistance to becoming more fanboy after episode 17: 30%

If this keeps up, I'm going to start raving and ranting about Tomoyo and Kyou. Not that it's too likely to happen, though. :heh:

Episode 17 was great. I'm not too sure about the arcs, as usual, but currently there's that sense that Kyou's and Tomoyo's arc is slightly overlapping, though from the preview it seems like Tomoyo will be getting her arc first...Unless of course, they plan to interweave both of theirs until the end of them.

-I think this has been mentioned before, but Tomoyo certainly provides humor in unexpected ways. Unlike Kyou or Sunohara, who are obviously a lot more expressive, Tomoyo might not even be aware that her actions are causing a hell lot of comedy to occur. I laughed when she came to wake up the delinquent duo (also shutting Tomoya up in the process by mentioning his father), laughed hard the second time (she went easy on Sunohara! :eyespin: Probably didn't want to damage the dorm windows, I'll bet. Aside from that, Sunohara's room is getting progressively messier) and laughed harder when she popped up from behind, an action I often did when I was still in College, if I might say :heh:.

Again, she scores with how direct and unabashed her answers are to Tomoya's and Sunohara's questioning regarding her actions. It almost looks as though she's the guy trying to hit on the girls. :heh: Could she actually be taking the initiative like Kyou suspected? Now that would be something to see. It's probably the first time the viewers ever saw her smiling so much. No doubts to her comment about having fun with Tomoya around. ;)

Aside from that, I'm getting more curious about her circumstances and her past with the delinquents. Tomoya made her out to be some sort of a vigilante, but with the preview I'm looking forward to an even deeper story than that.

-Another key feature of this episode would be the Fujibayashi siblings. While It's fair to say Kyou literally takes up the other larger portion of attention, I assume that there might be some foreshadowing about her arc to come. In a way, I feel sorry for Ryou. As compared to her sister and Tomoyo, she isn't that outgoing and forthcoming with talking to the guy she likes.

Of course, the gym storage room scene was great hilarity and entertainment. It was nice to see Kyou go all deredere and misunderstanding, while Tomoya added fuel to that fire unknowingly. The ending scene of his reciting gave me stomach cramps, considering how effective the spell was. It's really nice to see how Clannad can use such a commonly used scenario and make it seemingly refreshing and highly entertaining. Credit goes to the seiyuus and the animation too. ;)

-Fuuko again?! :heh: Well, it wasn't as funny as the first few times she did that, but it didn't feel so bad. It's an issue on timing that people are complaning about, but considering that it follows up with Sunohara in tow, I don't have too many complaints.

-Points to the delinquent duo again. Youhei for his old slapstick stuff, and Tomoya for thoroughly dragging out the misunderstanding, for helping a girl out Yuuichi-style and for standing up to take the rap for Tomoyo. It seems apparent now that Nagisa has became an essential part of Tomoya's life, and he's probably starting to realise it, even to the extent of wanting he to come back for the drama club, something which he claimed he was helping out because he was bored. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, I suppose. ;)

-Preview: Tomoya the PIMP. :p In any case, it looks all good for Tomoyo's arc.

[Proto]

Tomoyo: Nagisa and Kyou (but kinda rare)

And Fuuko :heh:

[Ottocycle]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but at 00:47 of your sub, isn't it supposed to be 'precedent'?

[mikesince83]

I'm not too sure about the arcs, as usual, but currently there's that sense that Kyou's and Tomoyo's arc is slightly overlapping, though from the preview it seems like Tomoyo will be getting her arc first...Unless of course, they plan to interweave both of theirs until the end of them.

If episode 17 is any sort if indication for how Tomoyo and Kyou's arcs will play out I think it's safe to say they'll be interwoven.


In a way, I feel sorry for Ryou. As compared to her sister and Tomoyo, she isn't that outgoing and forthcoming with talking to the guy she likes.

I would go so far as to say that Ryou's roll in this series is simply to serve as the catalyst for a developing Kyou's interest in Tomoya. He clearly has no real interest in Ryou, and it seems highly unlikely she'll become more involved with him in future episodes.

It's really nice to see how Clannad can use such a commonly used scenario and make it seemingly refreshing and highly entertaining. Credit goes to the seiyuus and the animation too. ;)


This seems to be one of the main aspects of Clannad that makes it stand out from the rest. While it's often covering material that could be considered cliché the writers manage to keep it fresh and unique.

[sikvod00]

I hope all the Nagisa-haters are happy. Your bitter animosity made her sick again. Repent, you savages! :upset:

Anyways, Tomoyo's breasts never stood out before that scene. I think she even beat Kotomi.

[Mirrinus]

Hmm...it's kind of odd, but Fuuko's appearance actually turned out to be one of my favorite parts of this episode. I actually laughed quite a bit (almost more than Kyou's storage shed scene).

The first half of the episode was kind of banal for me, but the second half picked up. Interweaving two arcs together feels a bit disjointed at times, but it's made more credible by the fact that Kyou and Tomoyo each acknowledge the other (Kyou in particular is concerned quite a bit over it). It makes it very different from, say, Kanon, where even in the transition arcs characters barely recognize each other's existance.

And I have to admit, as much as Kyou is my favorite character, her arc's story just isn't that interesting to me. Tomoyo's story currently piques my interest more, due to having a more complex past and such.

[X207]

No, but the problem in the game is "other girls" are sparce if you are with someone.
Here is the list of the girls you see depending of their route:
Nagisa: can see everyone in her route, except Kotomi
Fuuko: Nagisa (obviously)
Kotomi: Nagisa, Kyou and Ryou
Tomoyo: Nagisa and Kyou (but kinda rare)
Kyou/Ryou: NONE (yeah, once you are in their route, you don't see any other girl)

Basically, they have to balance each girl screentim aside of Nagisa and the current one, so it will make sense in term of story progression.
During all this time, Tomoyo was in fact rpeparing her elections.

ty, so aside from tomoyos arcs she only appears bc nagisa is around. lol its funny to see how far tomoyo will go to make tomoya (and sunohara) be on time. i wonder wat nagisa will think if she happens to pass by tomoyo towing behind the delinquent duo. tomoyo certainly has opened up in the space of only 2 eps.
imo the random fuuko appearances always ruin the mood of the scene.

[Proto]

Personally it made laugh quite a bit :heh: Aw well, to each to his own. At least we can't complain about them not faithfully adapting the original.

[KaneDragon]

And naturally, the first person Tomoya considers for the charm is Nagisa... ;)

Nagisa's departure sure was abrupt, but I can't really complain when we finally get to see more of Tomoyo/Kyou. ^^

[Ascaloth]

Blog article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD (TV), Episode 17 (http://www.riuva.com/?p=973)

Contrary to what I claimed earlier, I didn't quote any of you after all. Anyway, I've brought up a question at the end of the article, so feel free to comment. :)

Gonna sleep now. These late night article-writing marathons really take a toll...

[SSJiffy]

IMO, this episode is now a nominee for the Best. episode. ever. title. I really enjoyed that awkward and hilariously pleasing locked in the gym storage room scene. Gold!

[Ecole]

I didn't like Fuukos appearance (except for the way she left) nor the Kyou storage room. I especially disliked the storage room part because it was really easy to anticipate how they would react and what they would say. I see how it can be funny but I just found it too obvious :).

Still rating this an 8 (low for a CLANNAD episode) because the rest of the episode made up for those two "blunders".

[Cheezy]

Oh my gosh Kyou dere was freaking awesome.

I want to see more of her dere side. Tomoyo is becoming pretty interesting too.

[aquastar831]

Totally agree with you guys, Tomoya is so lucky with two really awesome girls wanting their time with him. At the beginning of the series, I didn't think too much of Kyou, but with these last few episodes, Kyou is becoming another of my favorites, Tomoyo still my top pick and Nagisa a very close 2nd.

Lucky guy, I'd definitely want a girl like Tomoyo to wake me up every morning. :D

Must resist playing the game until velocity7's team finishes the patch, though I have Little Busters to keep me busy for awhile. I bought the actual game itself at Otakon last year, but held off on playing it when I heard that his group was translating it.

One thing I do like is that with the girls that we've finished the arcs with already, they're still there and don't disappear from the series altogether until the last episode like with Kanon, though Nagisa is probably going to be the exception for awhile seeing as what happened to her in this ep. Kotomi of course is still hanging out with the group of course, and Fuuko making her random appearances.

Edit: My apologies about earlier since I usually don't post too often in the episode discussions, though I should've read the first post of the thread.

[C.A.]

This is probably the best episode I've ever seen in an anime. I'm not even saying sorry to Haruhi-sama and Kamina. I've always thought in my mind when I watch something so amazing, that if I would ever witness something more amazing.

Haruhi and Gurren Lagann amazed me and brought me insane epicness, but I never thought that this little episode of Clannad can bring me such pleasure and enjoyment. Its not an adrenaline rush, not a tear jerker, but just a simple euphoric reaction. I hope I can get more tear jerkers and euphoria from the remaining episodes of Clannad, in the same epic fashion as the last few episodes of Gurren Lagann.

And for those who are against Fuko's appearances: You have never fully understood Fu-chan and never will. You have never really recieved her starfish. The only way to save yourself, is to have selective amnesia and forget about her. Then be amazed everytime she appears again, to forget about her later on.

I miss Nagisa.

[Mirrinus]

And for those who are against Fuko's appearances: You have never fully understood Fu-chan and never will. You have never really recieved her starfish. The only way to save yourself, is to have selective amnesia and forget about her. Then be amazed everytime she appears again, to forget about her later on.

This is so sig-worthy. ^_^

I miss Nagisa.

Me too...

It's kind of weird...I watched Kanon more for the on-going plot arcs rather than the individual scenes and other such baubles, yet for Clannad, I almost feel like I'm doing the exact opposite. I think it's because the stories themselves aren't nearly as out-there as Kanon's (except for Fuuko's arc). So far, all the other girls' stories seem pretty normal, making the show seem more slife-of-life than drama to me. Which is fine; I love slice-of-life.

[bladeofdarkness]

its wierd how much nagisa's absance is felt in this ep
if tomoyo or kyou's story happend earlier in the anime it would have made more sense
i think its too late to have a romantic angle for tomoyo or kyou's story becouse its clear who tomoya really love's
even when he has kotomi kyou ryou sunohara and tomoyo around him he ends up sitting in the club alone and think about her
and he still is looking for a way to help her with the club by getting tomoyo on the student council
having him go into a romantic relationship with another girl at this point is just not logical

by the way i think i know what kyoani are going to do about the after story

they just wont do it

[Kaioshin Sama]

This is probably the best episode I've ever seen in an anime. I'm not even saying sorry to Haruhi-sama and Kamina. I've always thought in my mind when I watch something so amazing, that if I would ever witness something more amazing.

Haruhi and Gurren Lagann amazed me and brought me insane epicness, but I never thought that this little episode of Clannad can bring me such pleasure and enjoyment. Its not an adrenaline rush, not a tear jerker, but just a simple euphoric reaction. I hope I can get more tear jerkers and euphoria from the remaining episodes of Clannad, in the same epic fashion as the last few episodes of Gurren Lagann.

And for those who are against Fuko's appearances: You have never fully understood Fu-chan and never will. You have never really recieved her starfish. The only way to save yourself, is to have selective amnesia and forget about her. Then be amazed everytime she appears again, to forget about her later on.

I miss Nagisa.

You say that about everything though.:heh:

I tend to think that about songs. Once I find one I really really like and can't stop looping, I wonder if I'll ever find another one I like just as much. The answer thankfully always ends up being yes.

On the whole Fuko issue, the way I see it Fuko is a symbol of everlasting friendship I feel, and thus can't be allowed to truly die. There's a deeper meaning to why she keeps turning up, or rather another layer to her character that is symbolic rather than corporeal.

[C.A.]

its wierd how much nagisa's absance is felt in this ep
if tomoyo or kyou's story happend earlier in the anime it would have made more sense
i think its too late to have a romantic angle for tomoyo or kyou's story becouse its clear who tomoya really love's
even when he has kotomi kyou ryou sunohara and tomoyo around him he ends up sitting in the club alone and think about her
and he still is looking for a way to help her with the club by getting tomoyo on the student council
having him go into a romantic relationship with another girl at this point is just not logical

by the way i think i know what kyoani are going to do about the after story

they just wont do itI don't see a problem, with the girls trying to get close to him. In fact its a great time for the girls to get him. With Nagisa's abscence the girls get a chance, or so they think so, because its also a time for us to see how much Tomoya truly cares for Nagisa.

People must learn how to watch to enjoy.

You will not enjoy if you keep wishing or wanting to see something from a show, you enjoy by letting the show bring you along. You become part of it, you go with it, you won't get what you want if you keep thinking of how things should go according to you, because its their story and not yours.

By accepting and understanding what you're watching, you will enjoy.You say that about everything though.:heh:

I tend to think that about songs. Once I find one I really really like and can't stop looping, I wonder if I'll ever find another one I like just as much. The answer thankfully always ends up being yes.I guess this means that anime(and music) have been improving over time. Never get stuck on something, if not you will never find something better. But it doesn't mean one should forget if he finds something better.

[HashiriyaR32]

I was literally LMAO when Fuko appeared.

[ApostleOfGod]

Why does Okazaki have to be so sick..?

Makes me JEALOUS lol haha

[monir]

The gym store scene was zomg...haha kyou reveals everything without tomoya doing anything XD Seems like she is considering going for tomoya but was cut short, dam >_<
Oh yeah! She wasn't holding back. She wanted an hour with Tomoya. Question is if Tomoya could have gone on for an entire hour? Kyou, you beast! :heh:

At the end of this episode, Kyou has quickly become my 4th likable character from this series.

[Divini]

Does anyone else think Tomoyo is insanely cute when she's in a good mood? :)

If only a girl like that had woken me up every morning in high school...

Also, Kyou in super deredere mode was way cuter than I would've thought! As someone else said earlier, my chances of becoming a Kyou fanboy has increased also. :D


Main Char / Supporting / Minor[TH]
Okazaki Tomoya
Sakagami Tomoyo
Fujibayashi Kyou
Sunohara Youhei
Fujibayashi Ryou
Miyazawa Yukine
Botan
Furukawa Nagisa
Ichinose Kotomi
Ibuki Fuuko
Nishina Rie
Sugisaka
Furukawa Akio
Furukawa Sanae
Mitsui19:50
9:51
7:36
5:45
4:04
1:47
1:44
1:34
1:26
1:00
0:26
0:26
0:15
0:06
0:04

* KyoAni sure delivered a swift KO to Nagisa this episode. Even Botan ended up ahead of her :heh:
* Tomoyo takes the lead this episode, a first for her!

Main Char / Supporting / Minor
Okazaki Tomoya
Furukawa Nagisa
Ibuki Fuuko
Ichinose Kotomi
Sunohara Youhei
Fujibayashi Kyou
Fujibayashi Ryou
Sakagami Tomoyo
Furukawa Sanae
Ibuki Kouko
Furukawa Akio
Kotomi's Guardian
Sunohara Mei
"Mysterious World"
Miyazawa Yukine
Botan
Yoshino Yuuske
Sugisaka
Nishina Rie
Sagara Misae
Ichinose Koutarou
Ichinose Mizue
Mitsui
Toshio Koumura
Okazaki Naoyuki
Kanako
5:29:06
3:14:20
1:26:19
1:21:06
1:15:23
1:14:00
1:01:24
30:21
19:29
16:44
14:27
9:39
9:20
7:46
6:22
5:24
4:58
4:40
4:38
3:59
3:49
3:47
2:35
2:34
1:14
0:18

* Fuuko is still holding on to 3rd place, thanks to "Fuko summon" :D
* Kotomi is slowly closing the gap, but will probably be outpaced by Kyou and Youhei
* Tomoyo, meanwhile, has a lot of catching up to do :(

[HashiriyaR32]

All hail Botan, the royal food taster :heh:

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3331/snapshot20080208160247no2.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20080208160247no2.jpg)http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2746/snapshot20080208160251fj4.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20080208160251fj4.jpg)http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4758/snapshot20080208160253tr6.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20080208160253tr6.jpg)http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3847/snapshot20080208160257rr9.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20080208160257rr9.jpg)http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3092/snapshot20080208160300nt9.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20080208160300nt9.jpg)

[KaneDragon]

Does anyone else think Tomoyo is insanely cute when she's in a good mood? :)

If only a girl like that had woken me up every morning in high school...

Also, Kyou in super deredere mode was way cuter than I would've thought! As someone else said earlier, my chances of becoming a Kyou fanboy has increased also. :D


Main Char / Supporting / Minor[TH]
Okazaki Tomoya
Sakagami Tomoyo
Fujibayashi Kyou
Sunohara Youhei
Fujibayashi Ryou
Miyazawa Yukine
Botan
Furukawa Nagisa
Ichinose Kotomi
Ibuki Fuuko
Nishina Rie
Sugisaka
Furukawa Akio
Furukawa Sanae
Mitsui19:50
9:51
7:36
5:45
4:04
1:47
1:44
1:34
1:26
1:00
0:26
0:26
0:15
0:06
0:04

* KyoAni sure delivered a swift KO to Nagisa this episode. Even Botan ended up ahead of her :heh:
* Tomoyo takes the lead this episode, a first for her!

Main Char / Supporting / Minor
Okazaki Tomoya
Furukawa Nagisa
Ibuki Fuuko
Ichinose Kotomi
Sunohara Youhei
Fujibayashi Kyou
Fujibayashi Ryou
Sakagami Tomoyo
Furukawa Sanae
Ibuki Kouko
Furukawa Akio
Kotomi's Guardian
Sunohara Mei
"Mysterious World"
Miyazawa Yukine
Botan
Yoshino Yuuske
Sugisaka
Nishina Rie
Sagara Misae
Ichinose Koutarou
Ichinose Mizue
Mitsui
Toshio Koumura
Okazaki Naoyuki
Kanako
5:29:06
3:14:20
1:26:19
1:21:06
1:15:23
1:14:00
1:01:24
30:21
19:29
16:44
14:27
9:39
9:20
7:46
6:22
5:24
4:58
4:40
4:38
3:59
3:49
3:47
2:35
2:34
1:14
0:18

* Fuuko is still holding on to 3rd place, thanks to "Fuko summon" :D
* Kotomi is slowly closing the gap, but will probably be outpaced by Kyou and Youhei
* Tomoyo, meanwhile, has a lot of catching up to do :(


Yukine counts as a main character?

[tun]

Kyou would have been a lot more experienced in "that kind of stuff" if I were in the storage room with her.

[bball_machine]

You know the girl who lent Kotomi the violin? We've seen her quite a bit now... Am I the only one who thinks she should be a main character? She's quite moe :3...

[Divini]

Yukine counts as a main character?

Well I would classify her as one in the game. (some might disagree, but... if I consider Youhei and Ryou main chars, she should get a spot too)

For this anime, with the amount of eps remaining, probably not. Most likely will have to change it.

[Klashikari]

Not really, considering Yukine was taken out of the game cover. And watching the OP of the game and the anime is kinda self explanatory I believe. (well more if you actually check the game, though Yukine sure deserve a main character slot, much like Sayuri in Kanon)

[OceanBlue]

Kyou Fanboyism
-Level Up-

The Fuko thing was pretty predictable. For those who are saying such things against people who don't enjoy Fuko's constant interruptions, apparently you don't realize that not everyone has to like the characters you like. I find them bothersome not because I don't like Fuko the character, but because she doesn't do anything and disturbs the flow of the scene with a senseless, childish insert. It isn't even funny. It would make much more sense for the characters to have occasional memory flashes or something, like the time after Fuko disappeared. I think I understand why it's done, but I don't like how it's handled. If I'm right, they could convey the feeling a much different way.

Her "attack" almost seemed like a Fate/Stay Night reference there though.

Edit: Changed the phrasing of a sentence.

[Solafighter]

Great episode! :)

The szene with Kyou in the equipment room... Unpayable. :D

[Bonta Kun]

Awesome episode, got everything from finding porn under the bed to being locked in the gym storage room with a beautiful lass(which btw her in them thigh high socks is just too much, only sooo much the human heart can take!)
Kyou manages to have more sex appeal while wearing gym clothes than other characters do while being almost or completely nude.

lol @ Sunohara begging for some skinship

and why is it that people never check to see if anyone is inside the storage rooms before locking them?!!

[blitz1/2]

I am now beginning to wonder if Kyoto Animation will surprise us by giving us a Tomoyo ending making a Tomoyo after OVA/anime possible.

[monir]

and why is it that people never check to see if anyone is inside the storage rooms before locking them?!!
And where is the romance in that?

Okay, I'm done spamming for today. :innocent:

[aquastar831]

I am now beginning to wonder if Kyoto Animation will surprise us by giving us a Tomoyo ending making a Tomoyo after OVA/anime possible.

I'm thinking that even if they don't go with her ending, they could still do it, making it as the alternate path like say how Kimi ga Nozomu Eien was done recently.

It'll be interesting to see how they handle these next set of episodes since they do seem to be overlapping arcs in a sense.

[Sorrow-K]

The best thing about the storage room scene was just how ridiculous it was. It was a very clever jab at the locked-in-the-storage-room cliche and the way it just snowballed so quickly was what made it so funny. That, and the way it was foreshadowed with perfect precision. It really just was an incredibly fun scene.

The Nagisa thing is interesting. Under normal circumstances, I'd have thought it very strange that Tomoya would go an entire episode without visiting her if something like that happened to her, but they managed successfully to put enough external circumstances that prevented him from doing so in, to make it believable that he hadn't. I like the way they handled Nagisa. Okazaki didn't just not forget her, but he was constantly thinking about her.

Another very solid episode.

[bladeofdarkness]

great ep and a solid 10
just one thing that bothered me was fuko showing up when she did
the first she showed up in kotomi's arc i LOLed
the 2nd time i was like WTF? but still liked it becouse every time she shows up she tries helping but doesnt
this time however i felt the timing was just wrong
i was really looking forwerd to see the fight and fuko showing up was just in the way
and it wasnt even that funny

i loved fuko in her arc but i now i hope this was the last we'll see of hear

[OceanBlue]

I am now beginning to wonder if Kyoto Animation will surprise us by giving us a Tomoyo ending making a Tomoyo after OVA/anime possible.

I wouldn't put too much hope into it. Doing that would be suicide for KyoAni right now.

[OceanBlue]

great ep and a solid 10
just one thing that bothered me was fuko showing up when she did
the first she showed up in kotomi's arc i LOLed
the 2nd time i was like WTF? but still liked it becouse every time she shows up she tries helping but doesnt
this time however i felt the timing was just wrong
i was really looking forwerd to see the fight and fuko showing up was just in the way
and it wasnt even that funny

i loved fuko in her arc but i now i hope this was the last we'll see of hear

Really? I thought everyone was hoping she would show up recovered of her coma in the final/second final episode or something.

But in general I agree with you.

Edit: Oops, double posted. Sorry.

[littlekitty]

great epi
loved the gym closet scene haha

[Liddo-kun]

Gave this episode a 9.

They're doing a pretty good job of giving everyone ample screentime.
Now I just hope for a Tomoya x Kyou ending, though I guess that's impossible. :(

[kamo]

I didn't like Tomoyo very much, but Mitsui made this episode a ten. <33
Kyou getting locked in the gym room with Tomoya was cute.
I can't not like Fuko. Even though her appearences are pointless, I still like seeing her.

[Gecchi]

I love all anime from Key. air. kanon. clannad .mm hav them all and i giv them all 10 off 10


Gecchi

[Wandering_Youth]

A overall good episode. They started getting into the relationships with all the girls going on with Tomoya. It was kind of odd seeing so much Tomoyo all of a sudden since we only catch brief encounters of her in the past episodes. Her personality also strike me very odd because in the very beginning she looked like a lone wolf, tough but lonely heroine. Now all of a sudden she's all cheery and energetic, which sort of gave made gave me an impression like she was someone else. Well at least she tries to be...

Wow, that scene with Kyou and Tomoya locked up in the gym shed was hilarious. It all happened so fast that it left me with a huge grin on my face. I was surprised to see Kyou so willing to...accept advancements from Tomoya right there.

[Kaioshin Sama]

I am now beginning to wonder if Kyoto Animation will surprise us by giving us a Tomoyo ending making a Tomoyo after OVA/anime possible.

Picture this. 2ch is relatively quiet, and then in five minutes there are 50 completely full hate threads denouncing Kyoto Animation as the spawn of Satan for not giving them the canon ending. Nagisa is the "destined winner" and thus it shall be....or else. :uhoh:

[MeoTwister5]

Nagisa becoming absent again actually does happen in the game (but I won't say when), though I don't think it actually happened this early.

Thinking about it again, the act of temporarily removing her from the story for this episode early on was a great move, coupled with the fact that Tomoya just can't stop thinking about her.

Why? Because it makes a powerful contrast to the romantic advances of the other women. If Tomoya had any sort of interest in them he would have probably done something rather than insisting he doesn't want a girlfriend. Any hot-blooded male would have probably jumped Tomoyo in his bedroom or Kyou in the storage room, but he didn't. He panicked, got angry etc.

All the while, again, reminiscing in Nagisa's absence. He probably doesn't fully understand his feelings yet, as shown by him standing outside Nagisa's bedroom window then promptly going home instead. The fact that he's depressed and worried and can hardly care for anything else is a sign of that.

The clincher was Tomoyo's plan to become elected as president. He, for all intents and purposes, isn't going to help her because he likes her (which is what happens in the game), but rather because he wants getting an adviser for the Drama Club as a favor from her. He suddenly becomes excited for Nagisa to come back.

Then you have the storage room. Hell Kyou was practically throwing herself at him to have his way with her, but rather than act like a perverted man he acts like a horribly confused gentleman.

Remember that when Yukine placed the spell, he thought about getting locked in there with Nagisa first, and Kyou was essentially the backup girl.

And by virtue of the above paragraphs alone, it shows to me that although we're getting the arcs compressed it serves 2 main purposes:

1. To give us depth about their characters through their stories.

2. To serve as a foil and contrast to Tomoya and Nagisa's relationship, further magnified by her absence in this episode and eventual return.

[BigGimp77]

This might have been my favorite episode thus far. The storage room scene was halarious. This episode had a lot of well placed comedy I thought. I'm starting to like Tomoyo more and more.

[germanturkey]

gave this ep a 10. even though it was kinda crammed together, i absolutely LOVED it. more Kyou and Tomoyo exposure is exactly what this series needed. its unfortunate that the Fuko and Kotomi arcs took so long and detracted from the arcs i (and probably many like me) wanted to see.

which basically means they have to do the kyou and tomoyo arcs in 4 eps and reserve 3 for nagisa.

in terms of the ep: the equipment room scene was amazing. i was laughing so hard during it, and it gave some nice insight into what Kyou thinks. And Tomoya show's his chivalrous side when he took the fall for Tomoyo. what i would give for them to animate Tomoyo After..

[Smelly_Goomba]

Maaaan, awesome episode as always. Kyou showed her cute yet awesome side this episode too! That gym room scene is one of the best I've seen in any anime. It's lol worthy too.

But I can't wait for next week! Kotomi looks so hawt in the preview without any sleeves or whatever. >_>

That aside, I've just finished Tomoyo's route today before I started watching episode 17 and I thought it was cool that Tomoyo woke up Tomoya. Those legs... hmmmm. The anime portrayed it perfectly.

[BigGimp77]

Kotomi looks so hawt in the preview without any sleeves or whatever. >_>

Yea I've missed Kotomi. She's only had like one line in the past couple episodes. I was hoping they wouldn't ignore her after her arc was over and at least gave her minor role like Fuko every now and then.

[todkapuz]

sorry, the gym locker scene is just pricless... stereotypical yes.... but priceless... :)

[Kaisos Erranon]

Utter brilliance and win.

I love Kyoto Animation.

[holyman282]

This ep was amazing. Tomoyo saying that porn is completely normal for a guy and Sunohora telling her to get out was just such a weird convo that i cracked a smile. Is it just me or is Tomoyo surprisingly insensitive to love?

Kyou was amazing this ep lol, whatever will she had of not betraying Ryou flew out the window when Tomoya started taking off his shirt.. Too bad it was just to dispel the curse lol!

Great ep, alot of things happening, 10/10!!

[Tormenk]

Picture this. 2ch is relatively quiet, and then in five minutes there are 50 completely full hate threads denouncing Kyoto Animation as the spawn of Satan for not giving them the canon ending. Nagisa is the "destined winner" and thus it shall be....or else. :uhoh:

I can so see this happening. :rolleyes: End it with Nagisa but give me Tomoyo After in any form. :upset:

Kyou and Tomoyo are two of my favorite girls from Clannad and this episode just proved why. And increased their likeability sky-high. :love:

[MeoTwister5]

Personally, after playing through the game and watching the series, no one deserves Tomoya more than Nagisa, and vice-versa too.

I in fact like her more as a character than anyone else, by virtue of her character and development alone. I can't see the series ending any other way.

[Bankai29]

After this episode...Kyou has now become my favorite character here in Clannad...I mean in that storage room scene that was just soooo moe...and hot. :p

[Sinestra]

Great episode and after reading through 7 pages of post i dont think i can say anything that has not already been said. But damn it I am now a Kyou fan boy even if she doesnt have a chance in hell. It only took a couple of min alone in a storage room with Tomoya for her reveal everything. She wanted him badly and it seems like after this scene it might be hard for her to hold back her feelings but she doesnt want to hurt her sister its a difficult situation.

Nice to finally see Tomoyo screen time finally. Oh how i have missed watching Sunohara getting his but whooped by her. I dont think i could handle her waking me up everyday my nerves and loins couldnt take it.

Poor Nagisa get well soon the vultures are circling now that your not around Tomoya.

[EXEs]

Gym locker room scene was awesome. Who knew Kyou secretly wanted to do naughty stuff with Tomoya. His pose whilst the door was open was lmao-inducing. Excellent ep!

[Master Chibi]

I wish they'd stop 'bringing back' Fuuko, it really degrades the end of her arc when they can just throw her in there when they want for some (usually) misplaced comedic value.

Outside of that:

Lots of Tomoyo = <3
Lots of Kyou being hot as hell = <3

[minhtam1638]

Okay, Clannad was ranked much higher than Kanon on my list right until this episode. Kyou being locked in with Tomoya aside, the pacing is WAY too fast compared to previous episodes. It looks like Kyoto Animation is finally starting to crack.

*sigh* Guess Kanon remains the precedent for PC to anime adaptations.

[KholdStare]

Wow, so that was maybe the best non-Fuko-arc episode I've watched. I actually didn't mind Fuko's appearance this time, and everything was either funny or dramatic. I think this is the second time ever that an episode could wrench me from immense drama to laughing in a matter of milliseconds. And guess what, the first episode that did this was also from Clannad. Either way, 10/10, and props to Tomoya at the end.

Kyou...wow, didn't expect her to freak out. I didn't think the pacing was fast at all. Just like manga to anime adaptation, I don't really care if they're doing three arcs in one episode. All I know was that I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, and no matter how fast it is compared to the visual novel, I'm rating this episode for how good it is, not for how accurate the adaptation is with the visual novel. Perhaps the reason why I think they're not going to fast was the fact that until now, Clannad never made any very noticeable hints about who Tomoya favored, until now, so I thought that it was about time.

[ThoHell]

I've gotten so into this series' character development, as I'm sure most of us did, that I forgot there are a lot of things left unexplained. We forget this series is more than just high school love/drama/comedy but also involves the magical/spiritual world like Kanon but to a lighter degree.

Things that have been picking at my mind:
1.- That girl who lives in the world with just her robot toy, who is she?
How does she related to Tomoya's world?
Could that robot actually be representing Tomoya and the girl representing the girls that are in Tomoya's world?
That little girl lives in isolation, therefore multiple personalities can form and those personalities could be each one of the girls in Tomoya's world.
The robot brings the girl out of loneliness and like wise with the robot, same goes within Tomoya's world.
Does this little girl's world correspond with Tomoya's present world, the future, or the past?
2.- What was it that Nagisa's mom noticed was strange about the girls when she first met them at Kotomi's violin performance?
Nagisa's mom seems to notice things out of order and goes a little beyond the surface, why?
3.- Tomoya sees his bad with disgust, what exactly happened to them?
Why did Tomoyo see Tomoya's dad in a different perspective than Tomoya? (this was the first time I think we had someone other than Tomoya interact with his dad)
Is what Tomoya seeing of his dad not the actual reality or is it the other way around?

I'm sure I have a lot more questions. But this seems to be a mountain enough. I think we're all going to be shocked when everything is revealed, if it will be! Hope they don't overload us in 1 episode.....

[Klashikari]

2.- What was it that Nagisa's mom noticed was strange about the girls when she first met them at Kotomi's violin performance?
Nagisa's mom seems to notice things out of order and goes a little beyond the surface, why?
I think you didn't relate with Nagisa's answer.
In fact, Sanae felt that Kyou and Ryou were familiar. That is not a surprise since she did the teacher during Fuuko's arc. Despite the "amnesia", she could recognize the Fujibayashi twins, that's why Nagisa naturally introduced them.
3.- Tomoya sees his bad with disgust, what exactly happened to them?
Just to summary the points given in the anime:
Tomoya's mother, Atsuko, died in a car accident when he was still young. Because of this accident, the relationship between both of them degenerated, as Naoyuki sulked in a vicious spiral known as Gambling, Alcohol, Anger. Then, in middle school, Tomoya had a violent argument wiht his father, and he got his shoulder dislocated, obliterating his dream of basket ball.

From that very specific point, Naoyuki interacts with Tomoya as if he was a "old friend" instead as his son.
This is the reason why Tomoya sees him in disgust, considering how a wreck his father is and how he doesn't see him as a son (Tomoya doesn'thold grudge anymore concerning the shoulder wound)

For futher details, it will be explained later, most likely.
Why did Tomoyo see Tomoya's dad in a different perspective than Tomoya? (this was the first time I think we had someone other than Tomoya interact with his dad)
Is what Tomoya seeing of his dad not the actual reality or is it the other way around?
The thing is Tomoyo doesn't know the whole story and can only see a "man who is polite". However, Tomoya knows well how is father acted from the beginning (gambling etc) and the change of consideration hit him quite big.
Tomoyo doesn't have the same point of view, hence why she didn't see his father as despicable.

I'm sure I have a lot more questions. But this seems to be a mountain enough. I think we're all going to be shocked when everything is revealed, if it will be! Hope they don't overload us in 1 episode.....
Explanations of such things are given in due time, not really as a "wow flash news revelations!" near of the end.

[ThoHell]

Yeah some of those I somewhat knew the answer to, but still had the question in my head. I think the real thing that's picking at my head is the girl and the robot and how it relates to Tomoya's world.

And about Nagisa's mom, yeah what you said about the Fuuko arc makes sense. But you noticed nearly everyone who had an interaction with Fuuko slowly forgot her even though she was still there (only people who managed to force themselves to remember were Tomoya and Nagisa), but Nagisa's mom knew/had an idea that she forgot the memories of this girl. Come on you got to give her some credit, she's a little bit more in touch than she appears.

[Klashikari]

Yeah some of those I somewhat knew the answer to, but still had the question in my head. I think the real thing that's picking at my head is the girl and the robot and how it relates to Tomoya's world.
To be quite blunt, revealing the identity of these characters and the purpose of such sequences are one of the biggest spoilers in CLANNAD. Patience is virtue ! :heh:

On a serious note, it is rather a better idea to pack these sequences with their timing and trying to figure a bit their "message" currently.

And about Nagisa's mom, yeah what you said about the Fuuko arc makes sense. But you noticed nearly everyone who had an interaction with Fuuko slowly forgot her even though she was still there (only people who managed to force themselves to remember were Tomoya and Nagisa), but Nagisa's mom knew/had an idea that she forgot the memories of this girl. Come on you got to give her some credit, she's a little bit more in touch than she appears.
Sanae is hardly a sub par secondary character (though who is a sub par minor character in clannad anyway? XD), and her contributions are more in depth, though it isn't her time to shine yet (until KyoAni skips that).

[holyman282]

Okay, Clannad was ranked much higher than Kanon on my list right until this episode. Kyou being locked in with Tomoya aside, the pacing is WAY too fast compared to previous episodes. It looks like Kyoto Animation is finally starting to crack.

*sigh* Guess Kanon remains the precedent for PC to anime adaptations.

In terms of pacing i really don't feel that it's going too fast, what I thought about this ep was that it integrated well the two character story arcs of Kyou and Tomoyo. To me it was a step above Kanon in terms of story telling.

I thought going through each arc of a girl one by one was a bit too structured and it was good to see that here they are trying to interweave several story arcs together.

To me in Kanon the girls had little or no interaction between themselves other then their connection to Yuichii but here they interact and it feels alot more believable.

[Oppius]

I love the "sex scene" between Tomoya and Kyou. Both should stay in that gym store for more action!

[amoirsp]

Wow, so that was maybe the best non-Fuko-arc episode I've watched. I actually didn't mind Fuko's appearance this time, and everything was either funny or dramatic. I think this is the second time ever that an episode could wrench me from immense drama to laughing in a matter of milliseconds. And guess what, the first episode that did this was also from Clannad. Either way, 10/10, and props to Tomoya at the end.

Kyou...wow, didn't expect her to freak out. I didn't think the pacing was fast at all. Just like manga to anime adaptation, I don't really care if they're doing three arcs in one episode. All I know was that I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, and no matter how fast it is compared to the visual novel, I'm rating this episode for how good it is, not for how accurate the adaptation is with the visual novel. Perhaps the reason why I think they're not going to fast was the fact that until now, Clannad never made any very noticeable hints about who Tomoya favored, until now, so I thought that it was about time.

Random comment: The anime is like 10x faster than the visual novel, but that's kind of by default. XD

Another random comment: Because of the giant gap in Tomoyo appearance (well sure she was very sparsely in Fuuko and Kotomi routes, but otherwise not particularly prominent), I rewatched episode 4. I thought it was an interesting contrast since that was the previous Tomoyo emphasis relevant episode (16 kind of was too.), and then thinking of just 4 and 17 was interesting. The point of mentioning this was the derivation of Sunohara's revenge was actually existent since 4, and slightly in episode 10. It's one thing to have early foreshadowing, but it's interesting to notice what it foreshadowed when it actually occurs. (ironically the pace of 4 and 17 aren't that far from each other either.)


And now the absolutely totally random comment: Ryou's socks are not the same lengths as Kyou's! (However this existed since episode 15 and I didn't notice until the lunch scene in episode 17.) This is a random mention due to the fact that uh ... it was purposely done to be the same length during the winter duration. I guess the excuse is the transition from winter to summer, so when it's colder, use longer socks, and when it's warmer, use shorter socks. [Though only I'd randomly ponder or mention or notice this only because I was wondering about knee sock length that the animators would use and thought they would have Ryou's sock length shorter, which initially wasn't true, but now actually is.] The other random reason may be to ... distinguish the twins further? (though it was already too obvious they were far too different.)

[KholdStare]

And now the absolutely totally random comment: Ryou's socks are not the same lengths as Kyou's! (However this existed since episode 15 and I didn't notice until the lunch scene in episode 17.) This is a random mention due to the fact that uh ... it was purposely done to be the same length during the winter duration. I guess the excuse is the transition from winter to summer, so when it's colder, use longer socks, and when it's warmer, use shorter socks. [Though only I'd randomly ponder or mention or notice this only because I was wondering about knee sock length that the animators would use and thought they would have Ryou's sock length shorter, which initially wasn't true, but now actually is.] The other random reason may be to ... distinguish the twins further? (though it was already too obvious they were far too different.)

Man, that was absolutely random.

Wow, that was random.

But meh, I got over how fast they progressed Tomoyo last episodes, so I thought those were the fast ones. I'm starting to lean forward Nagisa now again, but...I've never leaned towards one side a lot. For most the entirety of the anime, I was 60% Nagisa, then 55% Kyou for a bit, and now back to 60% Nagisa. I really missed her last episode.

[SuperKnuckles]

I had DOUCHE chills from this ep.

Why? Tomoyo is just like my mom. Female version of Spock with a vicious temperament when provoked. :heh:

And the ridiculous bluntness that is both cute and unnerving.

[MeoTwister5]

@Klashikari

I'm wondering if there's even enough episodes left in the 23 episode run to even explain "that" world. There's no way in hell they can stuff that, and everything after, in the next 6 episodes.

School arcs they can, but everything else, I find impossible. At the least, they can probably run the story after their school life in another season, or at least 13 more episodes.

[Lilith]

Ep 17
Main scenes which I liked and affected me:
1. Tomoya reminiscing about Nagisa. I felt my heart sink.
2. Storage room... Oh, Kyou~ And I'm a GIRL! :heh:
3. Tomoya's sacrifice which led to shocking suspension.

I'm both excited and upset. Excited about how smoothly they moved from scene to scene and at what Tomoya did: thought about Nagisa, caught in heat with Kyou and defended Tomoya. Upset that they "crammed" those three stories that I don't know what exactly I'm feeling now: sad for Nagisa, laughing at Kyou or surprised for Tomoyo?! ^^;; So I really am not sure. I'm used to Tomoya/the gang devoting their time for one girl's case (Fuko and Kotomi), this change is both refreshing and weird.

I'd like appreciate Kyo Ani for not forgeting about character who appeared before especially Fuko and Kotomi, makes the series more solid. It must be a delight for their fans.

[Ascaloth]

2. Storage room... Oh, Kyou~ And I'm a GIRL! :heh:


Nothing particularly surprising there. Kyou already proved last episode that even if she's not so herself, she can easily cause girls to go "BI-" for her. ;)

[HayashiTakara]

This episode seriously wanted me to do naughty thiings to Kyou.... >_> <_< >_> >_< XD lol

[Kinny Riddle]

Okay, Clannad was ranked much higher than Kanon on my list right until this episode. Kyou being locked in with Tomoya aside, the pacing is WAY too fast compared to previous episodes. It looks like Kyoto Animation is finally starting to crack.

*sigh* Guess Kanon remains the precedent for PC to anime adaptations.

Kyo-Ani starting to crack? Excuse me? I would least expect you of all people to say that. :D I wouldn't even flinch an eyebrow if Kaioshin had said that. (No offense :cool: )

I would have thought the way Kyo-Ani arranged the pacing for Clannad is a huge improvement from Kanon, where they divided the "arcs" into pretty much independent storylines with almost no interaction between the girls, apart from the few meetings in between.

The weaving together of Nagisa, Kyou and Tomoyo's storylines, as well as making Kotomi a regular cast, means that the story is now more believable. Of course, there's the debatable part about Fuuko's random apparitions, apart from that, Kyo-Ani's doing a good job.

Fuuko and Kotomi's stories can be adapted easily without any of the romance aspects, not so with Kyou and Tomoyo, hence a wise choice to place them together and still emphaisizing that Tomoya only thinks of Nagisa and only her. And another good thing is that there's now plenty of room to spare for the climax to part 1 of Nagisa's story. (I'm of the belief that part 2 "AfterStory" will have to wait until the second series)


BTW, I believe everyone, including myself, have been so enchanted by Kyou that upon rewatching, I nearly missed a cute moment by her sister Ryou-chan. In 5:35, when Kyou shoved Tomoya to her side, she was so flustered that smoke can be seen coming out from her head. :love: :love:

[Darklightz]

Smoking Ryou-chan = Moe
Embarassed Kyou-chan = Mega-Moe (Can the charm work with dimes instead of 10 yen coins? I have to try that!)

I actually like the pacing of the series. There's a lot more girls interacting now.

The Tomoyo story is getting interesting. It's fun that she's catching on to the pace of Sunohara and Tomoya with her own brand of one-liners.

[MeoTwister5]

Kyo-Ani starting to crack? Excuse me? I would least expect you of all people to say that. :D I wouldn't even flinch an eyebrow if Kaioshin had said that. (No offense :cool: )

I would have thought the way Kyo-Ani arranged the pacing for Clannad is a huge improvement from Kanon, where they divided the "arcs" into pretty much independent storylines with almost no interaction between the girls, apart from the few meetings in between.

The weaving together of Nagisa, Kyou and Tomoyo's storylines, as well as making Kotomi a regular cast, means that the story is now more believable. Of course, there's the debatable part about Fuuko's random apparitions, apart from that, Kyo-Ani's doing a good job.

Fuuko and Kotomi's stories can be adapted easily without any of the romance aspects, not so with Kyou and Tomoyo, hence a wise choice to place them together and still emphaisizing that Tomoya only thinks of Nagisa and only her. And another good thing is that there's now plenty of room to spare for the climax to part 1 of Nagisa's story. (I'm of the belief that part 2 "AfterStory" will have to wait until the second series)


BTW, I believe everyone, including myself, have been so enchanted by Kyou that upon rewatching, I nearly missed a cute moment by her sister Ryou-chan. In 5:35, when Kyou shoved Tomoya to her side, she was so flustered that smoke can be seen coming out from her head. :love: :love:

Now I'm gonna have to be worried which of the 2 possible story routes they're going to do for the After Story. Of course, because I doubt my heart can handle it if they choose to end it in the "normal ending".

We aren't collecting the orbs in the game for nothing, after all.:(

[Zenemis]

Well, the orbs are there, so hopefully... :P

[Zaris]

Pacing too fast? Yes, perhaps. KyoAni cracking? Not really. Perhaps a poor choice of words. You're probably referring to Tomoya's unconscious ability to be found in the wrong spot at the right time. And will you look at that? For someone who would preferably be left at his own pacing, he is certainly getting out of shape. I mean, throwing Nagisa aside for the moment, Tomoya is right there to wake him up. And as soon as they get to school, Kyou is "oh-so-conveniently" right behind him. And vice versa towards the end. It's hard to believe he's not enjoying himself.

This episode tells us a little bit more about our male protagonist than your average weekly airing. Listening to his inner mind work, and then proceeding to hear him say he isn't date material makes you wonder if it's his own imperitives preventing him from taking that step forward. I mean, look at this episode. Yes, he's got some battle wounds. But he's in relatively good health (look at that six pack. He's better than I am), a total Samaritan, and carries a large degree of independancy. Great traits worthy of respect. And everybody seems to notice it but himself. It's kind of like a Squall complex if you know Final Fantasy VIII. He's cool, charming, brilliant, grace out. But he doesn't acknowledge his own greatness. He'll just push people away and do things himself. And like Squall, it will take a certain charm (and a lot of internal thinking) to get him to notice, really, himself.

While I can't give any high marks for storytelling, the producers have made some improvements in making the plot more exciting and wetting people's appetites... in various suggestive ways. The tendency, though, is that KyoAni seems to present us with a situation and then doesn't go any further. Is this on purpose? I mean, for example, Tomoyo makes a mention about Tomoya's father, and the conversation cuts. We don't even stop to see him either. And also, Tomoyo declares him a fun guy to be with. How does our man feel about that? But no, the animators wouldn't allow it although there is some attraction evident (not sexual attraction, you perverts). Same story with him walking in front of the Furukawa Bread store at night, even the scene when Kyou leaves Tomoya and Ryou alone to drop her pet off; they look at each other, and then roll their eyes away as if a piece of squash was more interesting. Great moments of tension in episode 17. Was an exciting episode, no doubt about that. But developing on that tension is the essence. You don't just spout the facts in a speech debate. You lead and convince them to take on a particular aspect. And that is the same thing as telling a story.

[Bankai29]

Damn i cant help but rewatch and rewatch the hawtness of the Kyou storage scene...:D

[Rookie103]

Now that Kotomi's arc is over, the anime seems to be lacking her :(.

[germanturkey]

Damn i cant help but rewatch and rewatch the hawtness of the Kyou storage scene...:D

i've watched the equipment room scene about 4 times now. its possibly my favorite scene from the show thus far.

and @ above, Kotomi does seem to be lacking some, but i think its more of a balancing thing than anything else. the show spent too long on Fuko and Kotomi IMO, and now they're trying to cram in Tomoyo and Kyou. Which is unfortunate for me, because the latter two are my favorite characters in the show..

[Rhyel]

Now that Kotomi's arc is over, the anime seems to be lacking her :(.

In preview for episode 18, Maybe Kotomi appear with fun extra bento food for Tomoya. :)

Perfect fun moments of episode 17:

1) Porn magazine found by Tomoyo
2)"You are an interest in my body? Beg, and I might let you touch me."
3) Botan and Ryou bento.
4) Kyou and Tomoya locked.

Fun a lot for a single episode. :)

[Reckoner]

Uh, no one "deserves" to be with Okazaki. That's almost like saying that since this person gave me 5 cookies and this other person gave me 1 cookie, I have to be with the person who gave me 5 cookies.

Anyways, his reminiscing about Nagisa once again proves that this is going to be the ending couple. I really think Tomoya is dull if he picks someone like Nagisa, nothing about her personality or looks seems very attracting to me.

I rated this episode a 9 for the sheer enjoyment and amusement I got out of it. I loved the storage scene so much. It got a -1 for the FUko scene, but a +1 for the Nagisa K.O. I hate Nagisa, she's too shallow of a character, at least thus far.

Like I said last episode though, I wish Kyoani would surprise me and not go for the most obvious person, but they are pretty much destroying any possibility of that.

[velocity7]

http://www.tbs.co.jp/clannad/06special/comments.html

Thought I'd mention this since no one else might have...

Apparently Kyoto Animation staff were talking a crapload about the gym storage scene in episode 17. Stuff about filters used, color co-ordination, the works. They talked about nothing else other than the gym storage scene in episode 17 here...

I wonder if that means KyoAni loves Kyou? :heh:

[Klashikari]

Anyways, his reminiscing about Nagisa once again proves that this is going to be the ending couple. I really think Tomoya is dull if he picks someone like Nagisa, nothing about her personality or looks seems very attracting to me.

I begin to have difficulty to figure your reasoning for characters "tastes" because you obviously dislike a specific genre of behaviour and personality. I mean come on, you would then call someone dull because they are attracted by things you dislike?

I don't see real need to caution a character because it clashes with you own sense of "attractive" assets or personality.
The thing is the story kinda bloomed in terms of developments between the two, though all characters simply piled points as well, along wiht nagisa for Tomoya. Considering their different situations, personality and feelings, it is downright completementary and such.
You are simply trying to evaluate a character with your own sense, not with theirs.

For tomoya, Nagisa has and is everything he "lost" and wanted to have. It isn't envy but complementarity and harmony. That can be applied for all of the girls, though Nagisa has a much effecient effect compared to the rest. On the other hand, Tomoya represents strength, care and things she wasn't expecting to have aside of her parents, considering her clumsy self. It is really not that surprising to see them attracted to each other progressively from a long mile.
And yet, the reminiscence isn't proof, but consequence. It was clear from a long while, not with "obvious flags" but rather how the characters interacted and were exchanging each others points and the like.

Your point looks more like "buh, he sucks because he doesn't chose the girl i prefer". I mean no offense, but that's how i see your rant about it (i don't have much issue with people liking differents characters, that's how it must be, especially with characters driven series. But seriously, trying compute own tastes with characters' is kinda over the top).

[Rembr]

Last 2 episodes have skyrocketed my Clannad stock because of Kyou.
Nagisa better bring some compelling shit on the table during her arc because she's been way too dull to watch.

[BakaOnna]

Uh, no one "deserves" to be with Okazaki. That's almost like saying that since this person gave me 5 cookies and this other person gave me 1 cookie, I have to be with the person who gave me 5 cookies.

Anyways, his reminiscing about Nagisa once again proves that this is going to be the ending couple. I really think Tomoya is dull if he picks someone like Nagisa, nothing about her personality or looks seems very attracting to me.

I rated this episode a 9 for the sheer enjoyment and amusement I got out of it. I loved the storage scene so much. It got a -1 for the FUko scene, but a +1 for the Nagisa K.O. I hate Nagisa, she's too shallow of a character, at least thus far.

Like I said last episode though, I wish Kyoani would surprise me and not go for the most obvious person, but they are pretty much destroying any possibility of that.
This post is so riddled in bias, it's not even funny.

Too shallow of a character? More like you're so against her that you can't realized th depth of her character. Of course, you'll probably respond, "what depth? A kind and naive character has no depth." :rolleyes:

From what I've seen thus far, Nagisa is the most compatible girl to go with Tomoya. And it was pretty obvious since the early episodes that Tomoya was going to end up with Nagisa.

And Kyoani's "surprise" to please some of the fans in going with another girl will just be, to me, horrible story telling. After all the set-up and development between the two of them, any other pairing will turn out to be another Kanon Yuuichi-Ayu disaster, meaning coming out of no where with very little to no development.

And I have to laugh at the people who call Nagisa's character "dull" because she's nice, naive, etc. Actually, it's kind of funny and ironic that most people despise overly "nice" characters.

[KholdStare]

I begin to have difficulty to figure your reasoning for characters "tastes" because you obviously dislike a specific genre of behaviour and personality. I mean come on, you would then call someone dull because they are attracted by things you dislike?

I don't see real need to caution a character because it clashes with you own sense of "attractive" assets or personality.
The thing is the story kinda bloomed in terms of developments between the two, though all characters simply piled points as well, along wiht nagisa for Tomoya. Considering their different situations, personality and feelings, it is downright completementary and such.
You are simply trying to evaluate a character with your own sense, not with theirs.

For tomoya, Nagisa has and is everything he "lost" and wanted to have. It isn't envy but complementarity and harmony. That can be applied for all of the girls, though Nagisa has a much effecient effect compared to the rest. On the other hand, Tomoya represents strength, care and things she wasn't expecting to have aside of her parents, considering her clumsy self. It is really not that surprising to see them attracted to each other progressively from a long mile.
And yet, the reminiscence isn't proof, but consequence. It was clear from a long while, not with "obvious flags" but rather how the characters interacted and were exchanging each others points and the like.

Your point looks more like "buh, he sucks because he doesn't chose the girl i prefer". I mean no offense, but that's how i see your rant about it (i don't have much issue with people liking differents characters, that's how it must be, especially with characters driven series. But seriously, trying compute own tastes with characters' is kinda over the top).

I completely agree here. Except for the fact that I've liked Nagisa fromt he start, there are many reasons for Tomoya seeing Nagisa as more than just a friend. Right now, Nagisa has done everything for Tomoya and all Kyou has ever done was help getting Ryou and Tomoya together, while running over him with her bike and such. If I recall correctly, Kyou and Tomoya had known each other before Nagisa came into the picture, and she obviously did not affect Tomoya that much. Remember what Tomoya said? Because of his current state, he's not looking or expecting to get a girlfriend. But Nagisa is beginning to change his thoughts, and that just shows how close they are together.

[Rembr]

And I have to laugh at the people who call Nagisa's character "dull" because she's nice, naive, etc. Actually, it's kind of funny and ironic that most people despise overly "nice" characters.I don't despise her, she just doesn't make for an entertaining tv show.
Overall solidity or whatever? Sure, go for it, do the whole Nagisa and Tomoya thing. But as much as possible, I just want to see as much Kyou squeezed into the show.

[KholdStare]

I don't despise her, she just doesn't make for an entertaining tv show.
Overall solidity or whatever? Sure, go for it, do the whole Nagisa and Tomoya thing. But as much as possible, I just want to see as much Kyou squeezed into the show.

Well this is just a problem with this genre then, because to tell you the truth I was pretty bored with Kanon, but that's the drama and mood of a visual novel adaptation. I really enjoyed Clannad, though, because of the comedy. Nagisa is boring because she promotes the plot, and it's that simple. Kyou might be a more "dramatic" figure, but if you call Nagisa dull, then you're expecting the wrong thing from Clannad.

[amoirsp]

http://www.tbs.co.jp/clannad/06special/comments.html

Thought I'd mention this since no one else might have...

Apparently Kyoto Animation staff were talking a crapload about the gym storage scene in episode 17. Stuff about filters used, color co-ordination, the works. They talked about nothing else other than the gym storage scene in episode 17 here...

I wonder if that means KyoAni loves Kyou? :heh:

No, I think they did that because it was the scene that had the most potential for having fun animate. Most of the other scenes were fairly straightforward. (Don't know about difficulty of animating flashbacks, but the replayed image itself was already done). Though the storage scene not only had high accuracy, but was convincing too.

But yes, it was clear that the storage room was emphasized. The content was insanely close to the original (I think. Don't know about word for word but the line intention was more or less similar. The word standing out most would be pin-point haha). And then the animation intensity was there too. Though seriously, that's quite the aggressiveness, but I guess Kyou has the capacity to insert that level.

Now to wonder what if they thought of using Tomoyo instead of Kyou for that (though it would make less sense in the context that uh ... he already sees Tomoyo most of the day due to the new pattern? The other being that Kyou was the only other girl he knew prior to the third year ... aside from Kotomi who he had forgotten about earlier.) Though since Tomoyo had been filling the mornings and after school sections, it makes more sense momentum-wise to have Kyou in the storage, and then Tomoyo finding Tomoya right after.

Not to go game related, but if you think about the situation, game or anime, it would logically make sense to have Kyou the girl of choice for that scene. (The game related thing is that in terms of option selection, Furukawa is the first choice that comes up usually, while Kyou's option is last but is just about guaranteed to be an available option.) Though anime-wise, them selecting Kyou would make the most sense anyways.

And yes, if you take the full spectrum, Nagisa does make more sense as the primary. Though expecting more amusing scenes from other girls so far also makes sense.

I find it interesting how the result from episode 17 can not only create new content capacity, but you can really fill a lot of things in! (The preview already showed a bit, so I'm quite interested.)

[Rembr]

Well this is just a problem with this genre then, because to tell you the truth I was pretty bored with Kanon, but that's the drama and mood of a visual novel adaptation. I really enjoyed Clannad, though, because of the comedy. Nagisa is boring because she promotes the plot, and it's that simple. Kyou might be a more "dramatic" figure, but if you call Nagisa dull, then you're expecting the wrong thing from Clannad.But 16 & 17 met my expectations just fine. And hopefully the streak will continue while we're in this ark.

[holyman282]

Uh, no one "deserves" to be with Okazaki. That's almost like saying that since this person gave me 5 cookies and this other person gave me 1 cookie, I have to be with the person who gave me 5 cookies.

Anyways, his reminiscing about Nagisa once again proves that this is going to be the ending couple. I really think Tomoya is dull if he picks someone like Nagisa, nothing about her personality or looks seems very attracting to me.

I rated this episode a 9 for the sheer enjoyment and amusement I got out of it. I loved the storage scene so much. It got a -1 for the FUko scene, but a +1 for the Nagisa K.O. I hate Nagisa, she's too shallow of a character, at least thus far.

Like I said last episode though, I wish Kyoani would surprise me and not go for the most obvious person, but they are pretty much destroying any possibility of that.

It's not about who you prefer but which girl is the most justified based on interaction and compatibility. Personally I like Tomoyo or Kyou alot better, but i understand that Nagisa is more suited for Tomoya and had the most interaction with him.

The words that i've highlighted from your post are examples that you are basing Nagisa's right to be with Tomoya on your own opinions because her personality does not seem attractive to you or because you hate her.

You say the argument of whether someone deserves to be with someone else is irrelevant, but aren't you being hypocritical by saying that you hope Nagisa doesn't end up with Tomoya? Aren't you saying that because her personality is dull (hence less cookies in terms of your analogy) that she doesn't deserve Tomoya?

You say her character is shallow, but aren't your evaluation of her shallow also because it's a biased judgement of her based on your own personal preference.

[Reckoner]

Lets clarify something here, I wasn't trying to be unbiased in my post. What I am trying to say in a way is, if I was in Tomoya's shoes, I wouldn't end up choosing Nagisa. That's it, nothing more, nothing less. It is a biased opinion on the matter, I wasn't trying to be unbiased. I didn't drag up any evidence to why Nagisa is a shallow character or anything, I'm stating my opinion. If you don't like it, I'm sorry that you disagree :rolleyes:. Klashikari, you got from my post exactly what you should've got. I mean why would I be stating in my posts that Nagisa is the obvious choice that Tomoya is going to make? I understand that she is everything to him.

[changeup]

So when Nagisa is not there, every other girl takes their shot at Tomoya? Entertaining~!! Especially Kyou's part...

Am I too dumb or something like that? Now I found out that Kyou and Ryou are so analogous (from their personality, ability and their mutual relationship) to Kagami and Tsukasa in Lucky Star? Even hair styles are similar...

[mandarb916]

Kagami and Tsukasa in Lucky Star? Even hair styles are similar...

Kyou knows how to cook well, Ryou doesn't, which is the opposite of lucky star

[nammerboi]

As much as i love Kyou and Tomoyo, I think that tomoya might pick nagisa in the end seeing how much he's thinking 'bout her :/

Nontheless. Awesome episode.. Kyou +1

[KaneDragon]

Kyou knows how to cook well, Ryou doesn't, which is the opposite of lucky star
You're right, they're totally different. :p Also, why was this discussion spoilerized? ;)

[OceanBlue]

To be fair, I don't think Reckoner's opinion of Nagisa being boring is as much bias as it does with characterization so far.

Personally, I also share a similar opinion only because during the Nagisa development scene, I had more of a feeling that it was Tomoya developing rather than Nagisa. It could be possible that I'm getting the feeling that the Nagisa route is more of a Tomoya route, where Tomoya explores and develops his personality through Nagisa, instead of like other routes where you would see more of the girl's character and see them develop through Tomoya. So instead of me liking Nagisa more, I like Tomoya more.

That's how I feel, anyways. But I personally think it's amusing how people react to, "Nagisa is boring." I think flames almost sparked. Of course, it's probably true that a lot of my insight on this has to do with my opinion.

You know, this is a first time in a while that I've noticed the song, "A Pair of Idiots" [[i]Baka Futari] playing in a while. It's actually pretty amusing.

Rewatching the episode. Tomoyo and Kyou really are cute. ^__^

Edit: It was really spoilerized, wasn't it....
I passed over it though, so I feel lucky.

[Snuffle]

The storage room scene was just a grand slam homerun :p, scored Kyou lots of points for me. I was so captivated by that scene that I TOTALLY forgot about the undo charm/curse thing, so I thought Tomoya was actually gonna jump her LOL. Then I started cracking up when he suddenly starts his chant :D. Also really funny when it actually WORKED!

I'm a bit surprised that Tomoyo doesn't mind boys having porn :eyebrow:... especially at her age. The ending of the ep REALLY got me interested on what Tomoya's past is... argh... must know.... >_<

oh btw, 10/10.

[AuditionEX]

Kyou and Okazaki moment is full of win. it made me laiugh really.
Also Fuko's appearance is annoying now. not just some 20-30 seconds of exposure but she must get along to the company and so imo she is now a minor useless character :x

Meanwhile... Okazaki blames himself for the fight scene. oh well I just saw the Ep 18 preview and it will turn good imo.

9/10 for the episode.

[mikesince83]

Patience is a virtue!

Fret not, I predict by the end of this series, the majority of Clannad fans will sing the praises of Nagisa and Tomoya together forever!

Consider how deftly the writers and directors have molded your emotions in the episodes to this point. While Nagisa has accrued significant camera time her involvement has been primarily helping develop other characters in their respective arcs. As the Character Popularity Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=59803) indicates, each girls popularity increases dramatically as their arc is featured. While this only makes sense, I see no reason for the trend to change as the focus shifts to Nagisa.

Give her some time...she'll shine.

[MeoTwister5]

Much of what will really define Nagisa as a character, and what will eventually change what people will think about her, happens in the conclusion of the school arcs and the entirety of the After Story.

So yes, she's sort of boring as of right now in the plot, probably because she's supposed to be, because in comparison the other women have much more presence and personality as opposed to Nagisa when they are introduced. Nagisa is and will be for most of the story, a character and personality and progress. She will, in fact, evolve and change more than any other female character, and is on par with Tomoya. You can think of her as a half-filled slate, still be impressed upon by her experiences.

So it's still fair to classify her as boring, but once it's her time to shine, I'm pretty sure your opinions about her will change.:heh:

[Leo_Otaku]

I am now beginning to wonder if Kyoto Animation will surprise us by giving us a Tomoyo ending making a Tomoyo after OVA/anime possible.

Then they would need to give us an After Story too...

[MeoTwister5]

Well they'd HAVE to give us After Story, or else for those who won't play the game the story of Nagisa and Tomoya won't make any sense...:confused:

[bladeofdarkness]

not giving us the after story is a great marketing pitch
you want to see what happens in the after story - BUY THE GAME
i hope to god im wrong on this
but with only 7 eps left who knows

[nikorai]

Hello.
I watched the episode late at night. I'm sorry for the late posting, i'm awfully behind the schedule.
Poor Nagisa, while she's suffering from an illness people are having fun.
Btw, Kyou was really cute. Also it seems Okazaki gets into trouble.

[shiro83]

How can I not give this a perfect 10?
So much Kyou action...

[Sheba]

Did Tomoyo learn Steet Fighter Zero Guy's qcb+K or something like that?

[bladeofdarkness]

after watching this ep i know the best way to end it

fuck tomoyaXkyou
and fuck tomoyaXtomoyo
fuck tomoya alltogether

i want the tomoyoXkyou ending :D

whos with me

[grey_moon]

Is it possible to dislike any of the girls in this show :twitch:

[Dxon]

This episode is just perfect. It made laugh so hard that it made me hurt my lungs. :D

Just perfect. Don't know why. But just perfect.

[Tendou88]

Is it possible to dislike any of the girls in this show :twitch:

atm i dislike Fuko random appearance

anyways this episode gets 10/10

[Dxon]

atm i dislike Fuko random appearance

anyways this episode gets 10/10

Well you're not the only one. I also don't like the random appearence of Fuko. She better stay away. She just ruins the moment.

[EphemeralDream]

atm i dislike Fuko random appearance

anyways this episode gets 10/10

I kinda like them....:D

[Mirrinus]

Concerning the Fuuko appearances, I consider:

1. They are technically canon.
2. This is the best way to keep Fuuko a part of the story instead of dropping her altogether after her arc.
3. It is perfectly in-character and, I dare say, expected from her in a sense.
4. I actually did laugh at them.

Really, the only possible complaint I have about the Fuuko appearances is that they tend to inject comedy into an otherwise serious moment. However, there have only been 3 such appearances so far, and at least the first wasn't serious enough to begin with. And besides, if you're going to fault the show for switching between comedy and drama too much, Sunohara's character should deserve even more criticism, seeing as he's been around a lot longer than on just three occasions.. If Fuuko didn't appear before the fight in episode 17, then the serious mood would have been interrupted anyway because of Sunohara's entrance.

Personally, I like shows that are able to swap deftly between serious and light-hearted moments. It was one of my favorite aspects of Rozen Maiden, after all, and it certainly didn't detract much from that show in my eyes. Maybe its because I just don't expect everything to be so conveniently black-and-white between comedy and drama.

[bladeofdarkness]

about fukko
keep in mind that in kanon or air once a girl finishes her arc you almost never see her again
but here both fukko and kotomi are still here

[Malzar]

the episode was great :)

[KaneDragon]

2. This is the best way to keep Fuuko a part of the story instead of dropping her altogether after her arc.
You have a point. However, you seem to be operating under the assumption that keeping her part of the story is a good thing: :p

3. It is perfectly in-character and, I dare say, expected from her in a sense.
Unfortunately true. Annoying little kid. At least she isn't arbitrarily the main love interest, unlike her soul-partner Ayu.;)

if you're going to fault the show for switching between comedy and drama too much, Sunohara's character should deserve even more criticism, seeing as he's been around a lot longer than on just three occasions.
Sunohara is actually funny, though, and his appearances are not jarring like Fuko's.



Aren't Fuko's game appearances dependent on getting points with her before the arc split?

[BigGimp77]

Just commenting on the Fuko stuff.

I really enjoyed the first two Fuko things. I thought they were funny and fit in pretty well. However this last one, the timing seemed misplaced. It was a pretty serious/important moment.

IMO if they had to bring her in the episode they should have done it during the lunch scene and had her eat the bad food instead of the pig.

[Sheba]

about fukko
keep in mind that in kanon or air once a girl finishes her arc you almost never see her again
but here both fukko and kotomi are still here
I remember that was one of the complains about both Air and Kanon 2006.

[GreatTeacherKen]

Kyou was very hot in this episode. I got to agree with virtually everyone else that the gym scene was hilarious even though situations like that are common in comedy.

It's also nice to get a stronger grasp on tomoyo's personality, and I have to say I like her directness and the way she unintentionally sets up funny scenes.

[Mirrinus]

So people complain if Kyoto Animation drops the character, and complain if Kyoto Animation doesn't drop the character. It's a lose-lose situation, eh?

[pcube19622]

I remember that was one of the complains about both Air and Kanon 2006.

well no arguements about air, but in kanon...makoto(did i spelled it right?) died...? mai and her friend(can't rememeber her name) and shiori were all hospitalized. At least they gave a little reason for disappearance...

[lenneal]

MAn i loved the kyou scene that was sooo flipping funny " curses are nothing to me" XD

[bladeofdarkness]

So people complain if Kyoto Animation drops the character, and complain if Kyoto Animation doesn't drop the character. It's a lose-lose situation, eh?

every one bitches and complains
thats just the way humans are
we'll bitch about anything

doesn't mean we dont like it

at this point kyo ani has become the dream theater of the anime world
and just like you dont compere dream theater albums to anything other then other dream theater albums you dont compere kyo ani anime to other animes

anything they make must be mesured by diffrent standerds (much higher ones) and that means that anything they make regardless of how good it is by their standards is still head and shoulders above the rest
that said
i still think clannad is the best key anime they have made yet

[grey_moon]

Hmm is disliking her appearance the same as disliking her? Kinda like hating the taxman, but then finding out that he is actually a pretty nice guy when not on the job.

[Bankai29]

When i saw the Fuuko scene... i went WTF?!?...really wished if Starfish Heat really activated...:p

[Rembr]

Didn't it activate? Just that no one cared.

[Kang Seung Jae]

This episode gave me a wierd idea:


What if we go all the way and have a harem ending, with Nagisa, Kyou, Kotomi, and Tomoyo as the wives?


(Okay, sorry, I had a dream last night of Tomoya working in Dubai as a construction worker and converting to Islam >_>)

[bladeofdarkness]

kyou,tomoyo,nagisa,and kotomi :D
kyou,tomoyo,nagisa,and kotomi in a burka :upset:

sorry dude
no dice

[Willcrusher]

As great as it is to have Fuko be a continued part of the series post her arc, I find it somewhat annoying/boring now with her appearances in these last few episodes. The first instance was great (ep. 12 I believe, with the crane game), but now, not so much. Perhaps if they made a different animation entrance it would have been better, but hey, budget/laziness etc etc etc could be factors.

The more I see these sudden Fuko appearances, the more I feel the ending to her arc loses its emotional punch.

[KholdStare]

As great as it is to have Fuko be a continued part of the series post her arc, I find it somewhat annoying/boring now with her appearances in these last few episodes. The first instance was great (ep. 12 I believe, with the crane game), but now, not so much. Perhaps if they made a different animation entrance it would have been better, but hey, budget/laziness etc etc etc could be factors.

The more I see these sudden Fuko appearances, the more I feel the ending to her arc loses its emotional punch.

Yes, this is exactly my point. The more I see Fuko trying to be funny and when I was emotionally immersed in a dramatic moment, the more I lose respect to Fuko. As of now Fuko's arc is still my favorite, but that might change if there are more random appearances from her.

[Klashikari]

Personally, I feel the opposite with Fuuko with her appearances: the more she appears, the more I feel like she is really following her actions she would do.

Basically, Fuuko could stay "dead" anytime of the week, considering she fulfilled what she had to do: celebrating Kouko's weddings, to wish her and yuusuke, happiness.
That alone is her own happiness, hence she would "die in peace".

However, her persistent and random actions gives some "respect" in my books, because Fuuko, despite being totally forgotten and not really asked to help, she tries to support her friends, without much success though. That's why It doesn't cheapens her arc in my own view.
The random and "comedic" (or clumsy?) effects are matching her personality and range of actions I believe.

That said, I can see how anyone can dislike such randomness and "useless" momentum breakers. But i feel like it is not exactly a matter of "should stay dead" or "shouldn't cheapen her arc". Being "alive" in this period isn't something that happy, considering her own existence is still forgotten.

I will quote what Kaioshin posted, as it is really pinpointing the essence of Fuuko's whimsical appearances:

On the whole Fuko issue, the way I see it Fuko is a symbol of everlasting friendship I feel, and thus can't be allowed to truly die. There's a deeper meaning to why she keeps turning up, or rather another layer to her character that is symbolic rather than corporeal.

(and before anyone ask, Fuuko is one of my least favourite characters ranking... so no, not really fanboyism in the reasoning... i think :heh:)

[Mecha_Trueno]

ok, since its totally looks like the series is gonna end with a nagisa ending, what's the chances of kyoani fitting in sunoharaXtomoyo somewhere along the way? i think it'll be pretty cute. loved his reaction when getting woken up by her, in fact thats how he reacts pretty much EVERY time she pops up now.

by the way, is sanae a winnable character in the game? (i'll decide if i'm gonna play depending on this answer)
p.s. remember to use spoiler tags, for the sake of others

[KholdStare]

The thing about Fuko is I wish she could actually succeed in helping people, not just be comic relief.

[OceanBlue]

Klash is right. I have much more respect for Fuko now that I see it from that perspective.

Yet, respect doesn't mean tolerance. I still have a hard time watching those scenes.

[KholdStare]

Klash is right. I have much more respect for Fuko now that I see it from that perspective.

Yet, respect doesn't mean tolerance. I still have a hard time watching those scenes.

When you put it that way, then sure. I do appreciate what she's doing, but I just wish that she would have been more successful, because right now it just hurts me how no one remembers her yet she's trying to hard to accomplish absolutely nothing.

[stonedzombie]

ok, since its totally looks like the series is gonna end with a nagisa ending, what's the chances of kyoani fitting in sunoharaXtomoyo somewhere along the way? i think it'll be pretty cute. loved his reaction when getting woken up by her, in fact thats how he reacts pretty much EVERY time she pops up now.

by the way, is sanae a winnable character in the game? (i'll decide if i'm gonna play depending on this answer)
p.s. remember to use spoiler tags, for the sake of others

I actually feel really bad for Sunohara. It seems like NO ONE likes him. Tomoya seems to have to convince and make everyone just talk to him or be around him! Plus every single girl has the hots for Tomoya and not one even remotely likes Sunohara. I'm hoping by the end of the series, he gets SOME kind of love from ANYONE.

[Zenemis]

Well... he almost gets love from someone.

[YagamiKaze]

I actually feel really bad for Sunohara. It seems like NO ONE likes him. Tomoya seems to have to convince and make everyone just talk to him or be around him! Plus every single girl has the hots for Tomoya and not one even remotely likes Sunohara. I'm hoping by the end of the series, he gets SOME kind of love from ANYONE.

I don't think so about this.Don't you see that Nagisa said thanks to Sunohara in one EP?So I can say that Nagisa like him(even though she doesn't love him).And Fongo gave sunstar to him,It could mean that Fongo like (and didn't love,too) him.And his sister,don't you think she always like his brother?
I think highly of Sunohara.He is Tomoya's best friend.He know Tmoya so much and warm-hearted to his friends(he had gave hand to Nagisa and Fongo).Even in this story he is a comic role,I think I can know him.

[Rookie103]

I don't think so about this.Don't you see that Nagisa said thanks to Sunohara in one EP?So I can say that Nagisa like him(even though she doesn't love him).And Fongo gave sunstar to him,It could mean that Fongo like (and didn't love,too) him.And his sister,don't you think she always like his brother?
I think highly of Sunohara.He is Tomoya's best friend.He know Tmoya so much and warm-hearted to his friends(he had gave hand to Nagisa and Fongo).Even in this story he is a comic role,I think I can know him.

Fongo? :heh:

[Snuffle]

lol @ fongo :heh:

The first time Fuko showed up at the crane game, I felt it really fit that scene.
The second time between Tomoyo and the kendo (?) team, it was really annoying and felt out of place....
The third time is passable cause I think it was well done enough for it not to be "hey I want to show up cause I feel like it".

But isn't it quite common for people to have a friend that is annoying but can't bring themselves to hate them? :p Past all that annoying stuff, there is a very nice person.... OMG! I'm actually defending Fuko! :twitch: She's my least favorite character :heh:.

[Mirrinus]

But isn't it quite common for people to have a friend that is annoying but can't bring themselves to hate them? :p Past all that annoying stuff, there is a very nice person.... OMG! I'm actually defending Fuko! :twitch: She's my least favorite character :heh:.

Hey, join the club. (she's one of my least favorite characters too...)

[Cal-Reflector]

I can only say one thing:

Tomoya: "Curses are nothing to me. Curses are nothing to me. Curses are... Waaaaaaaaiiiiiit a second...."
Kyo: "Um... Should I undress too?"
Tomoya: "...!!" *What's the hurry?*

[Godly_senselessness]

OMG OMG this episode was just too damn good.The storage room incident was just hilarious,10 from me.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Fongo? :heh:

Fuko shall be referred to as Fongo from now on.

[Willcrusher]

Personally, I feel the opposite with Fuuko with her appearances: the more she appears, the more I feel like she is really following her actions she would do.

Basically, Fuuko could stay "dead" anytime of the week, considering she fulfilled what she had to do: celebrating Kouko's weddings, to wish her and yuusuke, happiness.
That alone is her own happiness, hence she would "die in peace".

However, her persistent and random actions gives some "respect" in my books, because Fuuko, despite being totally forgotten and not really asked to help, she tries to support her friends, without much success though. That's why It doesn't cheapens her arc in my own view.
The random and "comedic" (or clumsy?) effects are matching her personality and range of actions I believe.

That said, I can see how anyone can dislike such randomness and "useless" momentum breakers. But i feel like it is not exactly a matter of "should stay dead" or "shouldn't cheapen her arc". Being "alive" in this period isn't something that happy, considering her own existence is still forgotten.

Well I for one, am not part of any group that wishes Fuko stays dead. However, I felt that her arc wrapped up very well emotionally that it does not merit additional appearances save maybe the first one, so the audience doesn't forget about her since she is no longer around.

However, her appearances are logical, as it is stated at the end of her arc that her ghostly form still wanders the school occasionally.

But personally, I believe having her post-arc appearances reduced to 1 or none gives greater emphasis for the finale when and if (although I know the correct answer via game spoilers) she regains consciousness and "comes back to life" etc. Think about it this way....which is better in your opinion:

A) Fuko's arc ends in ep.9 with the hope (faint as it is) that one day she'll "wake up" and can finally return to her friends and loved ones in the living world, and this eventaually happens at the finale of the series (sequels/second seasons talk aside).

OR

B) Fuko's arc ends as it did, but you get glimpses of her via the random appearances as we get now, but everyone she comes in contact with has no clue who she is, or cannot remember fully. Suppose again she returns at end.

To me, "A" would be better since I feel "B" would cheapen the return. Having her making sporadic appearances and then returning at end would be equal to the emotion that Nagisa and Tomoya had in ep.9 when they briefly forgot and remembered her. It just feels like "Oh crap! Sorry I forgot you existed for a second" or "Oh....so it was YOU who made those sudden appearances" etc.

Less of a dramatic punch IMO.

But then again, not giving her sporadic appearances means the audience forgets her faster, and leaves her seiyuu out of work for Clannad lol.

If parts of all of this post makes no sense, blame my sleepyness lol.

Also, on that Fuko note, they probably should have sent Kotomi overseas after her arc ended and then return along with Fuko and others at the finale, since post-Kotomi arc, she has little to no significance in the episodes. One liners or just nods and smiles don't give her character justice. Taking Kotomi out doesn't hamper her seiyuu, as she is suitably employed on other anime as well.

[mikesince83]

Fongo is pure win.

[Reckoner]

I can't stop laughing at Tomoya interrupting Kyou when she was about to open up to him by yelling "OH YEA!!!... Don't worry it's my first time too"

[qtipbrit]

This episode was quite nice, I liked seeing Kyou in super Tsundere mode, and I'm happy that this is the start of Tomoyo's arc (though it could, though since they are the two best female leads, it doesn't matter.
I'm also liking Fongo's random appearances. Though her stars usually don't really help in any of the situations, her comic relief and overwhelming cuteness is enough.

I agree that she who was once Fuko should now be Fongo.

[viny]

FUKO STRIKES AGAIN WITH RANDOMNESS!!!!
does anyone else find that a bit of repetitive now?

[Kaisos Erranon]

FUKO STRIKES AGAIN WITH RANDOMNESS!!!!
does anyone else find that a bit of repetitive now?

It's Fongo, not Fuko.

[Mecha_Trueno]

Fuuko=Fongo:confused:... i still dont get it...

anyway anyone know the answer to my other question?
by the way, is sanae a winnable character in the game? (i'll decide if i'm gonna play depending on this answer)
p.s. remember to use spoiler tags, for the sake of others

[Zenemis]

No, but you need her for an orb.

[Eisdrache]

Smiling Tomoyo wins over deredere Kyou 10/10 times :blush: Though I loved the storage room part :)

I would love to see Tomoya end with Ryou but we all know thats not going to happen.

And lol @Fongo xD

I can see the next 12 Clannad doujinshi (sp?) being about Kyou/Tomoya storage room scene coming from a mile away -_-

[velocity7]

Forgot to mention, did anyone notice when Sunohara jumped at Tomoyo, he did the Rei thing from Hokuto no Ken? :)

[arkxkra]

a very good episode, funny episode. Nagisa not here, feel damn lonely...

Tomoyo go wake up Tomoya every morning, jealous >.<". Sunohara that sleeping face was really awesome :heh:.

and the part i cant forget was Kyou and Tomoya lock in that room :heh:

the last part, Tomoya take all the resposible, I mean those teacher like the fight was cause by Tomoya for sure, abit unfair, but since he take everything onto himself, cool.

look forward to next episode. :)

[Klashikari]

Also, on that Fuko note, they probably should have sent Kotomi overseas after her arc ended and then return along with Fuko and others at the finale, since post-Kotomi arc, she has little to no significance in the episodes. One liners or just nods and smiles don't give her character justice. Taking Kotomi out doesn't hamper her seiyuu, as she is suitably employed on other anime as well.
That makes no sense whatsoever: Kotomi finally found her happiness: staying around her friends. This is the reason why she accepted the oversea studies first because she didn't want to suffer like this anymore, but everything was settled.

What the scripters did is exactly what they should: too many times, series like this just obliterate a character, for the sake for laziness, screentime for others etc.
Sorry, but it doesn't make sense, because it is like watching an episodic series, with a character who like... didn't exist after their screentime?

Kanon suffered from this, despite the explanations were fine enough. Still, taking out a character who is supposed to be around is just a very bad story telling because it is a poor attempt to manage events and so on.

[orion]

Poor Tomoya. He really wants Nagisa imo but he doesn't want to be in a relationship because he thinks he screwed up.

Poor me. Nagisa is sick so I guess I'll be in Nagisa withdrawal next week too. :sad:

I still think that Fuko's arc is not completed yet and that's another reason why we have random Fuko moments.

[Snuffle]

Isn't Sunohara more screwed up than he is?

As for Fongo, I don't mind her waking up in the end of the show (no clue if that even happens), but is it really necessary for her to show up as much as she has? I just think it's a wee bit over done.

I liked seeing Kyou in super Tsundere mode
From what I understand, a Tsundere is someone who is rude at first but opens up in the end (becomes nice?). But what I don't understand is what you mean by SUPER TSUNDERE mode. If the storage room scene was "super Tsundere", then could someone please explain to me on what was so "super" about it please? :uhoh:

[Proto]

Tsundere is a word whose meaning has evolved throughout the years. What you just described qualifies as what is now called the classic style of Tsundere, similar to Evangelion's Asuka Languey. However, there is an alternative meaning, referred to as the modern tsundere, that is more akin to a bipolar personality. Characters who exhibit this trait are fond of the main character, often since the beginning of the series, but are embarrased about it or have a situation that impedes them from showing this feelings, and cover it up through their "tsuntsun" mode (normally being violent, and only showing their feelings ("deredere"), in a few occasions.

The super in this case doesn't really carry any connotation. Think of it as a remnant of the Generation X way of talking :p

[Paul]

Quote: "The Hand is part of the body, too"

Major LOL

[mikesince83]

I still think that Fongo's arc is not completed yet and that's another reason why we have random Fongo moments.

Fixed.

Sorry, couldn't help myself!

[Rookie103]

Fixed.

Sorry, couldn't help myself!

It's not even funny. It's pathetic. One user makes a spelling mistake and people start acting like five year olds.

[Itadakimasu!]

Awesome episode... KyoAni has been able to nail the personalities of Kyou and Tomoyo even though they've been constrained by the divergent arcs and the limited screen time they have. I really liked the anime only 'locked in the storage room' scene... brought out Kyou's personality really well. The Tomoyo scenes were less inventive... mostly following the game, but they really got her innocent in your face character down pat.

Looking forward to the next ep!



GOT TSUNDERE? lol... list of tsunderes i can think of apart from Kyou ... Houjou Reika, Shana, Nanaka, and i cbb reeling off more

[grey_moon]

That makes no sense whatsoever: Kotomi finally found her happiness: staying around her friends. This is the reason why she accepted the oversea studies first because she didn't want to suffer like this anymore, but everything was settled.


I couldn't agree with you more. But I do hope they can find some way of giving her a little fun air time without interrupting the main story arcs, I do miss her.

[mikesince83]

It's not even funny. It's pathetic. One user makes a spelling mistake and people start acting like five year olds.

Even adults are entitled to a little fun now and again. No one is forcing you to come along for the ride, if you don't like it just ignore it. I was a bit surprised seeing such a reaction considering you were the one that pointed it out (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1392922&postcount=209) originally and apparently at the time found it amusing.

[Godly_senselessness]

I just loved Tomoyo's expression when she was in Sunohara's room.Saying stuff like"oh Porn" and "your a boy in puberty dont be shy".She was so nonchalant about it.

[Rookie103]

Even adults are entitled to a little fun now and again. No one is forcing you to come along for the ride, if you don't like it just ignore it. I was a bit surprised seeing such a reaction considering you were the one that pointed it out (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1392922&postcount=209) originally and apparently at the time found it amusing.

Yeah I pointed it out. Once. I haven't gone around in a childish manner correcting everyone though.

[Snuffle]

I don't see what the big deal is... It's not like we're making fun of the person that made the mistake, It's just the name sounds funny, and I shall not state my opinion on why 'cause I think the Fuko fans might get offended :heh:.

[Rookie103]

What I'm saying is everyone made a big deal out of one members spelling mistake. It's very childish.

[Hage-bai]

No Nagisa? Instant 10/10

[Faust87]

Poor Nagisa XD

Finally I saw Tomoya shirtless *___* And now i'm sure... Kyou is my favourite female character

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Just watched it. I really liked it, but.... Okazaki has a past record?!?! I'm not surprised he got suspended for fighting, but what's his record? I thought he was just a lazy delinquent.... O.o

[Klashikari]

Just watched it. I really liked it, but.... Okazaki has a past record?!?! I'm not surprised he got suspended for fighting, but what's his record? I thought he was just a lazy delinquent.... O.o
That is basically his record: being a lazy bum who doesn't do anything, you can expect him to be quite fond of insubordination.
Delinquent and troublemaker (with youhei), with of course bias of Oogami-sensei, and you got the expulsion.

You can tell that the teacher wanted to pin him down, but the previous troubles weren't enough to punish him.

[The Chaos]

Really Good Ep....I Like it..
But Poor Tomoya..>.>

[kyoulover]

Really like the gym rooms scene here.... ^^

aw...Kyou....you're too charming for me ^^;;

[konstargirl]

Lol tomoya looked sexy without his shirt on. He's cute as ever. <3 And I love when kyou reacted when she was in the closet.