Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Pellissier

2008-02-07, 07:05

Welcome to the discussion thread for Shakugan no Shana II, Episode 17.

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Whitemoon648

2008-02-07, 07:56

First post. I cant wait to see what happens in this episode *_*.

Hopefully we will have something action-related by the end of the episode.

Deathscyther

2008-02-07, 08:08

I expect another cooldown/foreshadowing episode. We'll probably see how everyone is choosing their own path. The episode will probably focus on Satou and Tanake's friendship and Yoshida's feelings. I guess we'll get to see some training from Yuji with the Blutsauger as well.

But yeah, I hope that the new enemy will at least make its first appearance this episode.

piku

2008-02-07, 13:11

nice drawing, nice bgm. good explanation to the last few episode... e. g. wilhelmina and pheles, as well as sabrac. and for the further development of the story. especially satisfied to the description about tanaka and ogachan, and satou. but thers is no doubt that the episode is quite boring compare with the battle scene a episode before...

yuji 's character change too much.... it must be a fragment for further event...

Zarovee!!!!!

but seems the time is not in christmas...

ashlay

2008-02-07, 13:27

nice episode, even though animation quality is all over the place (maybe they're saving up time and money for the Sabrac fight?)

Things are looking rather good for Ogata and Tanaka now that the latter decided he can't be around Margery anymore. (I really liked how they put the Satou and Tanaka scenes in front of that random convenience store) Even if Satou ends up joining outlaw or some such and gets killed, Yoshida erases her own existence by summoning Pheles, and Shana and Yuji end up dead because of Bal Masque's plan, at least there seems to be a whole lot of hope for Ogata and Tanaka now that they're out of the Guze side of the story.

anyway, next week it looks like Yuji's training is finally going to pay off. (if the opening is any indication)

yuji 's character change too much.... it must be a fragment for further event...
meh, he's gotten somewhat more involved with the training, but I really wouldn't call that a massive change in character.

minhtam1638

2008-02-07, 14:58

If this is the case of just a boring episode with Eita going out of the picture, then ChrissieXD's "Episode 17 streak" is broken. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=62012)

ashlay

2008-02-07, 16:37

If this is the case of just a boring episode with Eita going out of the picture, then ChrissieXD's "Episode 17 streak" is broken. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=62012)
well, Sydonay blows up outlaw in the first few minutes.

Key Board

2008-02-07, 17:38

I haven't figured out what exactly outlaws are

otherwise normal people who work for Flame Hazes?

DestinyFate

2008-02-07, 18:39

from screenshot, yuji defeated shana in training?

ashlay

2008-02-07, 19:01

from screenshot, yuji defeated shana in training?
no. He hit her sword into the air, at which point she roundhouse kicked him to the ground and then caught her sword as it came down.

the only real gains he made is that he's finally able to sense killing intent and he kept wanting to train even after he figured that trick out.

Deathkillz

2008-02-07, 19:13

Hate to say it, but I found this ep pretty boring -__- It may be needed but boring nonetheless.

Melo-themed shana really doesn't fit and just when the action was going so well, we are back to the grinding of slow development again. Tanaka's feelings on the situation is something I don't understand. Why has he become such a depressed person when ogata isn't even dead. His fears of what the past happens shouldn't really get in the way of the present - but I guess that is one of his flaws as a character.

Yuji "defeating" shana was funny though...especially when shana gave him a kick in the guts (he didn't see it coming XD)

serenade_beta

2008-02-07, 19:23

I haven't figured out what exactly outlaws are

otherwise normal people who work for Flame Hazes?

Outlaw is a place for Flame Haze to gather information. It's not a person.
Flame Hazes are there too, along with normal people.

The small amount of spoiler tags in this thread is oddly small.

The beginning defintely caught my attention for the episode... One part of Outlaw goes up in flames with extreme ease...
And Bal Masque started messing up the info Outlaw sent to Wilhelmina...

Another calm episode of everyday life and training. But it ended up being a really good episode. The final exchange at the end between Tanaka and Satou, Tanaka deciding to leave the Crimson World to be with Ogata (Best choice ever), Satou deciding to work at Outlaw (a most certain "death flag"), and the Ogata x Tanaka moments were just very worthwhile to watch and made my day. A bit sad... a bit heartwarming... :(
10/10 just for this.
To think that several episodes ago, Tanaka was the most fired up to work with Margery... Heh...

What has happened to Yuuji?! He's completely gone serious! And getting pretty good at fighting too!
Where's the light-hearted, dense idiot several episodes ago?! :(

Still a little bit of Kazumi worrying... She should just throw that thing away and leave the Crimson World too.
Ike deserves happiness too.

Preview: The Complicated Yuuji; "Ward of Collection and Distribution" Zarovee appears. :uhoh:

ashlay

2008-02-07, 22:46

I seem to recall everyone hating the dense idiot part earlier in the season. >_>

serenade_beta

2008-02-07, 23:01

I seem to recall everyone hating the dense idiot part earlier in the season. >_>

Yeah, pretty much everyone hated him.
I didn't really like it, but, well... it was amusing in its own way. :heh:
The thing is... I couldn't help but think about dense Yuji when Yuji started talking this episode... I thought his voice completely changed for a moment.

cnnydz

2008-02-07, 23:48

looks like they have scrapped a lot of novel materials, so we may be getting a original ending,
which is good. :)

serenade_beta

2008-02-08, 00:08

looks like they have scrapped a lot of novel materials, so we may be getting a original ending,
which is good. :)

Really?!
Can you point out how the anime differs from the novel this episode?

minhtam1638

2008-02-08, 02:17

looks like they have scrapped a lot of novel materials, so we may be getting a original ending,
which is good. :)

Needless to say, I will have to agree. We're at the point where it would be impossible to go through the novels at a considerable pace given the episodes we have left. Not to blame it on the earlier Fumina episodes, but from the looks of it, J.C. Staff may be trying to keep options open for a Shana III, which may be a 12-ep or 24-ep run depending on how the novels go. In order to keep options open, but not leave a season on a darned cliffhanger, an original ending would seriously be needed.

All I want from this season now is that damn kiss already. Or at least come close and have Wilhelmina interrupt like the overprotective mother she is.

HayashiTakara

2008-02-08, 04:43

I just have to say it... Tanaka is one lucky bastard...

I don't know about everyone else, but I always enjoy seeing Yuuji in training.

Deathscyther

2008-02-08, 07:56

I liked the episode quite a bit:)

The training part was cool (Yuji didn't see that kick coming XD) and I loved the emotional moments between Tanake and Ogata. It's a good decision. Leave that wretched world and be with the one you love (oga-chan =3 )

I think that we'll get an anime-only ending as well. They might finish with the sabrac fight and maybe a nice emotional yuji/shana moment. I don't think we'll get a kiss though. And I don't think that they'll solve the love triangle as well.

But it would be better for a third season to come with an anime-only ending. They'll have plenty of material to use then in the third season.

Kinny Riddle

2008-02-08, 11:00

DX HBK

2008-02-08, 11:14

I guess those guys in the Outlaw didn't think of using alarms or sentries to prevent ambushes like that.

HayashiTakara

2008-02-08, 11:27

It'll be cool if Pheles pops out of Kazumi causing guts and stuff to fly all over the place in the middle of the 2nd to last boss fight.

Deathscyther

2008-02-08, 11:57

It'll be cool if Pheles pops out of Kazumi causing guts and stuff to fly all over the place in the middle of the 2nd to last boss fight.

o.0;

Nah, I don't want to see her insides flying over the battlegrounds. And I don't want Kazumi dead as well.

minhtam1638

2008-02-08, 12:33

Bad animation aside, not a bad episode actually.

Not a lot of action, but in terms of character backstory.

After missing for so long, Sydonay finally re-appears, leading his monstrous-looking subordinates in annihilating an Outlaw, killing all Flame Hazes and humans alike. This attack is taken straight off volume 8. That old geezer you see would be the leader of the Flame Hazes in that Outlaw.

Tanaka finally discovers his future lies with Oga-chan, and who can blame him for it after seeing her nearly getting killed in the Fuuzetsu? And so he and Satou part ways, with Satou seeking out work in one of the Outlaws, though it'll be at the risk of his own life.

Wilhelmina reveals she was nearly killed by this Sabrac guy, and wouldn't be standing now if Pheles and Johann hadn't saved her life.

Instead of the comic relief role in the past few weeks, Ike at last goes back to his role as a sagely observer, giving people the nudge they need, this time it's Tanaka receiving his help.

And to make up for being such a useless wimp, Yuji finally starts acting cool, and actually beating Shana in a duel for the first time. (Though Shana wouldn't admit it, and kicked him anyway with her usual tsundere response. xD )

Shana's back to her tsundere self? Oh, joy.

Other than that, I'm going to give benefit of the doubt that this is sort of a transition episode into another arc, and we are finally seeing everybody (except maybe Kazumi) "making a choice and fighting for it." It was evident that Yuji made his a while back, but now it seems that many of the parties involved are also choosing their paths. Best example of this is obviously Eita, who finally stands firm with what is important to him and makes the decision to escape the world he was never meant to be in.

DX HBK

2008-02-08, 18:16

serenade_beta

2008-02-08, 19:10

The Complicated Yuuji

The silver flame in Yuuji's Seal.
It not only greatly shocked the Flame Haze that fought alongside him, but the Crimson Lords as well.
What is the identity of the unknown silver?
What does that power exist inside Yuuji?
Inside this mixture of questions and suspicions, Shana and co. are looking forward to when Yuuji awakens to new powers.
Pointed out before, Yuuji's sharp senses and his ability to analyze the situation make him suitable to be a Unrestricted practitioner.
Yuuji goes through the training that started under Margery's guidance with favorable persistance.
Margery, discomforted by his persistence, tells him "Determination isn't determined by your head, but by your motivation."

Yuuji has been pretty complicated recently...

BigGimp77

2008-02-08, 21:20

It'll be cool if Pheles pops out of Kazumi causing guts and stuff to fly all over the place in the middle of the 2nd to last boss fight.

I second that. Kazumi just tends to get on my nerves a lot...

teachopvutru

2008-02-08, 22:09

Kazumi is annoying and all but... the amount of hate on her is a bit extreme... O_o;;

DX HBK

2008-02-08, 23:35

HayashiTakara

2008-02-09, 04:41

Kazumi is rather honest about her own turmoil.

Kazumi's hidden message to Pheles:

So you're tell me to just simply quit?
I refuse to get ripped.
You green-haired scrawny bitch.
You're only good in giving ******* up gifts.

You don't like Pheles? yeah shes a little on the psycho side, but she's still smoking hot. Johan was one lucky bastard.

I'm gitty with anticipation for Yuji's uberness to shine. And I believe Kazumi is going to be a self-sacrificing martyr that's going to push Yuji even further to protect everyone, becoming the super hero Flame Hazes don't do.

Kinny Riddle

2008-02-09, 10:37

I wonder how would Eita ignore the truth of the world now that he's been exposed to it. There was a possible option of exposing the truth of the Guze to Ogata in order to for both of them to avoid being eaten while frozen in a Fuzetsu.

Anyways, I think Kazumi's time to shine a bit is around the corner in regards to the crucifix.

Anyways, if anyone wants to see Yuji to open up a can of whoop-ass on the Balle Masque immediately, give 'em J.C. Staff a Hell-ya!
I believe for Tanaka, if Oga-chan is to die in a Fuuzetsu, then he would rather join her then bear the pain of living without her, or even worse, see her off as a Torch. If he is to die in a Fuuzetsu, so be it.

Once again, guys, cut Yoshida some slack will ya? It's beginning to get more "annoying" than her monologues about her inner turmoils that you're complaining about. :cool:

DX HBK

2008-02-09, 10:58

You don't like Pheles? yeah shes a little on the psycho side, but she's still smoking hot. Johan was one lucky bastard.

I'm gitty with anticipation for Yuji's uberness to shine. And I believe Kazumi is going to be a self-sacrificing martyr that's going to push Yuji even further to protect everyone, becoming the super hero Flame Hazes don't do.

It's not about me hating Pheles, homie.
She's a hot sexy woman who I wouldn't mind havin next to me.
Yet her mindset is that between a child and a trickster.
I don't know if Kazumi or Margery should spank her or breast-feed her.

HayashiTakara

2008-02-09, 15:10

how about both? that'll make some great porn

blitzx

2008-02-09, 21:07

you got some stuff in there....:D

minhtam1638

2008-02-10, 00:58

how about both? that'll make some great porn

Can we avoid a MILF project, please?

DX HBK

2008-02-10, 09:57

Can we avoid a MILF project, please?

Now that's a real scary thing to say.
That question is already traumatizing me today.
It's obvious that the gap between Yuji and Kazumi is as wide as the sea.
All of the world would expect Shana to say to her, "You can't beat me!"
Everyone says she's worthless and tend to pelt her with heavy bricks.
Because it looks as if Kazumi has lost to a Flame Haze midget dominatrix.
But don't count her out yet, though, personally, she's better off as a nun.
Kazumi may still have a greater role that has yet to be said and done.

Deathkillz

2008-02-10, 11:21

DX HBK

2008-02-10, 11:34

Next thing you know, he is going to study under Wilhelmina in the art of bondage...wait...:twitch:

If that happens:

Yuji's memoir

Today, I met a maid, whose skills were highly paid.
She used her ribbons on me just so that she can get laid.
The maid is kinda like a crook who's read all the books.
The greatest tragedy is the fact that she still can't cook.

lua thien

2008-02-10, 16:55

Geez, DX. Quit acting like Cena already if you're so bored.

CapoExecutor

2008-02-10, 18:26

Well, since the Balle Masque has already tagged him with a transmitter, I wouldn't be surprised if Yuji gets too obsessed in wanting to fight them.

FlareKnight

2008-02-10, 20:25

Anyways good on Tanaka for getting himself out of that world. Make a good choice and just move on with a normal life. Better to be with the person you care about out there then in the Flame Haze world. Probably would rather be frozen in a fuzetsu with Oga-chan than to watch and hope she doesn't get blasted again.

Honestly a relief that we didn't have an Ike getting dragged around moment. Just giving some advice and being a reasonable voice to talk with is a good role there.

Guess if Satou's wanting to be a Flame Haze doesn't pan out, working for Outlaw is a good fall back. Though considering they are getting attacked lately, probably not the safest choice to be going with.

When it's not about relationships or people being in love with him, Yuji can be pretty solid. Working on that training and hopefully becoming useful out there.

Kristen

2008-02-10, 21:10

They are still going on about that Episode 13 fight? What is Tanaka so upset about? Sure, maybe the episode 13 stuff was a bit of a shock to him at first. But it's been like at least a week since then, and he's still depressed over it? She's not dead!
His emotions right now are so incredibly fake. She's not dead, yet he's acting like it. It's just getting annoying at this point.

This episode had absolutely nothing in it to grab my attention or make me like it. And the Tanaka stuff just threw me off the wall. They definately improved on decreasing the overly dramatic moments, so that's a plus. I'd say just Shana's "Wilhelemina" when she read about the attack at the Outlaw was the only one this week.

However, no interest and a bad point makes me give this episode a 5. Subpar in terms of anime.

HayashiTakara

2008-02-10, 21:18

He's afraid of losing her, thats the whole point. If he continues to be in a world he doesn't belong in, the one he loves most will have a higher chance of getting dragged into that world. He realized normal humans don't belong there....

I wish Kazumi is as smart as him..

BigGimp77

2008-02-10, 21:23

Kristen

2008-02-10, 21:32

Yea too much of Tanaka in this episode. I dont really find him and Oga that interesting of a story. Feels like it was just 'tagged' on there and it annoys me. Hopefully they're going to play less of a role in the future. And yet another Kazumi scene with her contemplating about Pheles. I'm kinda hoping she just accidently summons Pheles one of these days and gets it over with.

I'm hoping that she uses it, and it ends up being a thing to make a contract between her and Pheles so that Kazumi can become a Flame Haze, and then at that point she can protect Yuji more than Shana, be with Yuji more, and have a happy end with him.

Kazumi+Yuji=Ai :)

One thing that I forgot to mention is that this episode is highly lacking in Kazumi, another reason for me to downrate it.

BigGimp77

2008-02-10, 21:45

I'm hoping that she uses it, and it ends up being a thing to make a contract between her and Pheles so that Kazumi can become a Flame Haze, and then at that point she can protect Yuji more than Shana, be with Yuji more, and have a happy end with him.

Kazumi+Yuji=Ai :)

One thing that I forgot to mention is that this episode is highly lacking in Kazumi, another reason for me to downrate it.

Ugggh I'm going to be sick :upset:

I didn't mind Kazumi as much in the first season but this season she's just driving me insane.

HayashiTakara

2008-02-10, 21:51

Yea too much of Tanaka in this episode. I dont really find him and Oga that interesting of a story. Feels like it was just 'tagged' on there and it annoys me. Hopefully they're going to play less of a role in the future. And yet another Kazumi scene with her contemplating about Pheles. I'm kinda hoping she just accidently summons Pheles one of these days and gets it over with.

Oga-chan is hot, thats enough reason to show her more often, lol

Anyway, imagine this scenario....

After a hundred years or so, after every major fight Shana and Yuji are in, they have hot sweaty loli sex in the mist of the battle grounds, lol.. :heh:

cnnydz

2008-02-10, 21:53

I'm hoping that she uses it, and it ends up being a thing to make a contract between her and Pheles so that Kazumi can become a Flame Haze, and then at that point she can protect Yuji more than Shana, be with Yuji more, and have a happy end with him.

well, i don't think pheles would give up her freedom to be kazumi's contractor, and there is only one ending for flame hazes - death.

HayashiTakara

2008-02-10, 22:17

Kazumi will explode, mark my words!

BigGimp77

2008-02-10, 22:36

After a hundred years or so, after every major fight Shana and Yuji are in, they have hot sweaty loli sex in the mist of the battle grounds, lol.. :heh:

That would make for a great third season lol

HayashiTakara

2008-02-10, 22:44

That would make for a great third season lol

I'd watch it ;)

Guardian Enzo

2008-02-10, 23:26

Well, I rather enjoyed it. These emo eps are more tolerable when they come as breathers than when they're seven-ep blocks. And I though this was better than most of the "school life" eps earlier in the season.

Mukki

2008-02-11, 02:34

Ugggh I'm going to be sick :upset:

I didn't mind Kazumi as much in the first season but this season she's just driving me insane.

Quoted for effing truth.

Master Chibi

2008-02-11, 03:30

Irenicus

2008-02-11, 05:56

Eh, she just had one short scene. It isn't that bad.

It's a pretty good episode otherwise. The characters are finally getting their acts together after all. Yuuji is no longer in dumb harem lead mode, Ike no longer a comic relief character, and Sato and Eita finally decided to walk separate paths. It's been hinted as long as their first appearances with Margerie (Sato's always the guy to take the initiative; Tanaka just tagged along), and I like it that they decide to bring the issue to its logical conclusion.

They are still going on about that Episode 13 fight? What is Tanaka so upset about? Sure, maybe the episode 13 stuff was a bit of a shock to him at first. But it's been like at least a week since then, and he's still depressed over it? She's not dead!
His emotions right now are so incredibly fake. She's not dead, yet he's acting like it. It's just getting annoying at this point.
It's more like some sort of a phobia than rational fear, in my view. It's like, he saw his beloved got torn apart in the Fuzetsu. Sure, she healed back, and everything's fine afterwards, but he'll never be able to dissociate Fuzetsu with Oga-chan in danger ever again. To me that's more-or-less convincing.

That aside, humans have an amazing capacity to deny the truth if the truth is too hard to think about. I'm sure Tanaka will "forget" about the Crimson World soon enough. He won't be able to see torches or move around in Fuzetsu's without those gadgets after all -- he won't even know about it if Ogata's suddenly killed and turned into a torch.

Deathkillz

2008-02-11, 06:40

Yoshida is so bloody boring.

How many freaking times are they are going to flashback to Pheles telling her what that cross is for? How many times is she going to repeat herself in hopes of affirmation?

"IF MY LOVE FOR YUJI IS REAL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH"

WE GOT IT THE FIRST TIME ALREADY.

I wish she'd use it and call Pheles to say Yuji can't tie his shoes or some crap, just so she'd be out of the picture already.

And I swear I've gotten more out of the past few episodes in regards to Satou, Tanaka, and Ogata then I have this entire season with the main characters. Seriously, how am I supposed to be entertained / excited over them LOOKING OVER PAPERWORK? Are you freaking serious?

Wow.
HAHA!...yea ;)

She pratically has no character depth and is only a spectator, who happens to get in the way a lot of the times as well. Can't blame her for trying but I do wonder what role she plays besides being demoralizing - not that the other "emos" aren't bad enough, yuji at least can lift up 10 tonnes :heh:

Deathscyther

2008-02-11, 07:36

I liked the episode. The one yoshida scene wasn't really worthwhile, but it was enough this episode. We've seen her too much for the last couple of episodes already after all and she has nothing new to bring in at the time.

I like how Satou and Tanake finally made their choices. Satou wasnts to be as much help as he can be to Margery, while Tanaka wants to be with Ogata. He doesn't want to see her 'killed' ever again and decided to follow the same fate as Ogata. If she has to die, he'll never know or die with her. I think this shows how much he loves her and it made me feel good.

Now with all of these problems over, we'll probably see a lot of flame haze action as well as Yuji with his new weapon. It seems that Shana's getting worried about Yuji's change in motivation. Well, I know what is going to happen to some extend, so I have to say that I can't wait for the next couple of episodes.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-02-11, 07:42

Sad to see this forum turning into one for bashing Yoshida Kazumi. I understand she isn't exactly a likeable character, but I don't get this hatred-Oh wait, I never do when the reasons for hating the character aren't extremely clear-cut. :eyepsin:

This episode wasn't exactly what I would call 'exciting', and I never expected much action, so I wasn't that disappointed in it. That being said, the most interesting things that occurred were really Wilhelmina's introduction of Sabrac, a little of her past with Pheles and Johan and the preview. While the focus was supposedly on Keisaku and Eita, the impact simply wasn't there, because we don't know what the hell Eita was thinking all this while. If anything, those two friends seemed to represent avatars of decisiveness and indecisiveness respectively, with the problem being resolved at the very end for Eita.

Kazumi wasn't even a key feature in this episode, so the only thing I'd say is that hopefully she has finally decided what she wants to do. Criticising her for thinking as a normal person would is silly, but I don't think I can handle too much indecision on her part.

As for Yuuji...Well, watching his behaviour, I couldn't quite believe that was the same Yuuji a few episodes back, and the preview looks to be VERY interesting in regards to his supposed out-of-character determination. With reference to the spoilers from the novels (which I'm not going to reveal here, obviously), I'm wondering if there are 'internal' forces at work here...Then again, it could simply be Yuuji changing drastically.

While Keisaku looks as though he might actually have a bigger involvement in the world of the Guze, I'm concerned whether his screentime will be drastically reduced as he strives to work at Outlaw.

Other than that, aside from a concerned Shana about Yuuji's behaviour mentioned in the preview, the appearance of Zarovee (who looks like the Tomogara fighting with Yuuji in the OP) should spice things up a little.

Sterling01

2008-02-11, 08:17

As for Yuuji...Well, watching his behaviour, I couldn't quite believe that was the same Yuuji a few episodes back, and the preview looks to be VERY interesting in regards to his supposed out-of-character determination. With reference to the spoilers from the novels (which I'm not going to reveal here, obviously), I'm wondering if there are 'internal' forces at work here...Then again, it could simply be Yuuji changing drastically.

No J.C is just turning Anime Yuji into Novel Yuji :heh::heh:

Sinestra

2008-02-11, 08:56

I dont really blame Tanaka for getting out he has found something more important to him and he has to walk his own path. But he better be prepared to say good-bye to all of his friends except Ike. There is a possiblity that numerous people can and will get killed i just hope he realizes that. I for one could not make the choice Tanaka did. I am a person who thinks about the greater good. I would rather sacrifice myself to save everyone around me instead of playing the safe route and just pretend nothing is happening. Tanaka made the choice on his own and that makes him a man in my eyes, however he better stick that choice and Oga happens to be killed he better not come back crying because that is a possibility, they are right in the middle of the firezone.

Congrats for Yuji for disarming Shana but he was shocked when he did it he left himself open and she kicked him LAMO. Next episode Yuji is pushing himself to hard who didnt see this coming. Its natural when so many people want to kill you. I just hope badass Yuji from the OP happens in the anime eventually but not to soon i dont want it to seem rushed.

ok episode Yoshida was pretty quiet i think her destiny is to be involved in things. If you think about Tanaka has left and Yoshida has stepped in. I think we are going to see her make a big decision that might cost her her life or help her stand where Yuji and Shana are

7/10

Cheezy

2008-02-11, 11:33

I wanna see badass Yuji. He's geeting better and better.

KholdStare

2008-02-11, 11:41

7/10

I've been lenient with this series so far, but right now, all I can say is you don't need an episode with no action to advance the plot. This episode was probably needed somehow, but the quality of SnS II wavers so much I'm not sure what to expect anymore.

Deathscyther

2008-02-11, 12:09

cnnydz

2008-02-11, 13:07

I wanna see badass Yuji. He's geeting better and better.

i highly doubt that many people would like him when he turns badass, emo kids are always better.

RiXeD

2008-02-11, 14:24

8\10

Yuuji turning badass, propably after things which we haven`t seen in the anime (SoF`s influence?). Tanaka choosing his own way and Satou choosing his. Wilhelmina`s fear of Sabrac. Perfect. Only letdown of this ep was whole buncha QUALITY scenes.

Grimkill7

2008-02-11, 15:19

Despite the needed lack of Yoshida, this ep wasn't any better than last week's.

Let's see, where to start? Ah yes, let's start with the disappointment. The disappointment of watching Shana and Yuji for weeks on end only to find out that 2 side characters have advanced further in 1 episode than they can ever hope to. My hat's off to Margery's right-hand men. Tanaka, congratulations I guess? **shuts the door on him** Satou. Oh my dear Satou. I was hoping you would become a Flame Haze and fight alongside your Ane-san, but I guess becoming a filing clerk is almost as good.

Yuji, as interesting as it is to watch you train, the fact that you can just now sense killing intent disappoints Grimkill. Perhaps you need an 80s montage to move things along?

I can't even wrap my head around the rest of this episode to comment on it. We have the mention of Sabrac and Wilhelmina's encounter with him. We also have the attacks on Outlaw. Neither of which interest me to a point of talking about them.

Oh, and Ike has officially pissed me off. I KNOW that I didn't just watch him dealing out more relationship advice (what is it, like the 3rd time this season?) while he hasn't even made a single attempt to get "I wish I was up there with Sakai-kun" (NOTE: This is in fact what I will be calling her from this point on) off of our backs.

karinvampire

2008-02-11, 15:46

A really interesting episode.

KaneDragon

2008-02-11, 16:00

Grimkill7

2008-02-11, 16:17

...Tsk, tsk. Underutilization of human resources. :p

Maybe if they had security cameras or something, they'd have noticed the horde of trolls flying around. Defensive spells, anyone? How about using the internet, too. Harder to attack a base if it's spread out amongst a whole bunch of smaller nodes and not bunched up. Or spread-out human sentries, watching for guze activity? Meh.

Beings of the Crimson Realm do not use earthling technology like the intarweb. I think it's a matter of pride. They figure that since they have their fancy unrestricted methods, they don't need to rely on humans for anything. Yet they are not above sampling our delicious food and enjoying our festivals. Maybe if Flame Hazes actually carried cellphones or something, Outlaw wouldn't have gotten owned so hard. And if Tomogaras had the internet, they would be too busy dling pr0n to come to earth and feed on the existence of humans. It's not just opinion, it's fact.

mikesince83

2008-02-11, 17:26

Not much to say that hasn't been already.

A little on the slow side, presumably setting up for some action in the near future. Props to Tanaka for sticking with his woman. He wasn't going to able to do much helping Margery anyhow, might as well actively protect what's important to him.

At this point they've worn out the Yoshida/Pheles flashbacks. The hogu will play an important roll in the future, we get it. And while I don't dislike Yoshida, she does need to become active in some way other than Yuji's admirer. While it was passable for season one, the role is becoming stagnated.

The look on Shana's face when she's disarmed was priceless.

Malintex_Terek

2008-02-11, 17:33

i highly doubt that many people would like him when he turns badass, emo kids are always better.

Haven't you heard of "Gar"? :heh:

Bonta Kun

2008-02-11, 17:40

ah just when I thought we finally seen the end of teh "I won't lose, I won't lose either" talk we now got the "I want to stand where Yuji is" and "use this to summon me" flashback crap.......really how many times do they have to repeat these lines:(

its all rather tedious at this point, really hope we get to see something cool next. Infact I want to see something epic!!!

RiXeD

2008-02-11, 18:03

And if Tomogaras had the internet, they would be too busy dling pr0n to come to earth and feed on the existence of humans. It's not just opinion, it's fact.

QFT

I can totally imagine Friagne fapping to fetishist pr0n.

Seriously though, I agree. Flame Hazes rely on their power too much and really underestimate humanity`s abilities and technology. Cellphones and interwebs would really help FHs deal with Tomogaras.

Imagine a site where FHs would post about Tomogara`s activity. Even if a normal human (by that I mean a human who doesn`t know the Truth Of The World) stumbled upon it, he\she would most propably ignore it or take it as a case of SF fanboyism.

Of course, we would have to consider the possibility of that site being raided by angered *chan faggots.

...

Well, now that I think about it, maybe things should better stay as they are now...

DX HBK

2008-02-11, 18:46

And if Tomogaras had the internet, they would be too busy dling pr0n to come to earth and feed on the existence of humans. It's not just opinion, it's fact.

As if some Tomogaras can't get enough pleasure.
They might see the Internet as a brand new treasure.
Sydonay would be searching for young minors
like a hunter looking for pearls
Or Bel Peol would be posing seductively
As the Balle Masque's very own web-cam girl.
The internet may be good to them like fine old wine.
Because they might see a vid of the Aizen twins making out online.

serenade_beta

2008-02-11, 18:52

As if some Tomogaras can't get enough pleasure.
They might see the Internet as a brand new treasure.
Sydonay would be searching for young minors
like a hunter looking for pearls
Or Bel Peol would be posing seductively
As the Balle Masque's very own web-cam girl.
The internet may be good to them like fine old wine.
Because they might see a vid of the Aizen twins making out online.

You have an awful lot of time on your hands. :heh:

DX HBK

2008-02-11, 19:14

You have an awful lot of time on your hands. :heh:

No, I came up with that poem in five minutes.

_DaViD_

2008-02-11, 20:21

Yoshida is so bloody boring.

How many freaking times are they are going to flashback to Pheles telling her what that cross is for? How many times is she going to repeat herself in hopes of affirmation?

"IF MY LOVE FOR YUJI IS REAL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH"

WE GOT IT THE FIRST TIME ALREADY.

I wish she'd use it and call Pheles to say Yuji can't tie his shoes or some crap, just so she'd be out of the picture already.

And I swear I've gotten more out of the past few episodes in regards to Satou, Tanaka, and Ogata then I have this entire season with the main characters. Seriously, how am I supposed to be entertained / excited over them LOOKING OVER PAPERWORK? Are you freaking serious?

Wow.

lol yeah, yoshida can be a good character BUT shes so freaking annoying remembering the same damn scene and always saying the same damn words "i want to be by yuji's side"
YOU CANT OK SHUT UP lol
1 time is fine, 2 is like ok we got it but 324324235 times already is like "GODD*MN WE GOT IT STOP WASTING OUR VALUABLE AIR TIME"

Also there's 1 thing i dont get, if in the Outlaw there are Flame Hazes Why they couldn't sense the "metamorphosis" guy before crashing there? 0.o

Guido

2008-02-11, 20:54

Animation was off put at several shots for this episode.

The second season has completely separated itself from its predecessor.

Satou and Tanaka heading separate ways was imminent after the near-tragedy that the latter witnessed and experienced at the Seishuu Festival.

Those two together were the last remnants from the previous Shana era. It was tough to see them to make amends and say their farewells. It was tough for me to watch Satou fading into the darkness to descend into the world of the Flame Hazes to start working in Outlaw.

Margery was concerned about the two boys, particularly when IMO she had the feeling that Satou would choose to remain in her world.
She notified him about an Outlaw union, lead by Drell, being targeted and destroyed by the Tomogara to test his resolve to continue forward.

Satou's fear was natural but, nonetheless, made his choice. As for Tanaka, he officially chose to remain in the world of humans to live and stay close to Ogata, henceforth, returning the talisman, that Margery gave to him, to Satou.

HayashiTakara

2008-02-11, 21:06

The sad part is... it seems that Shana don't want Badass Yuji >_>

Sterling01

2008-02-11, 21:07

Shana wants to be the "man" in the relationship.

Triple_R

2008-02-11, 21:51

It's more like some sort of a phobia than rational fear, in my view. It's like, he saw his beloved got torn apart in the Fuzetsu. Sure, she healed back, and everything's fine afterwards, but he'll never be able to dissociate Fuzetsu with Oga-chan in danger ever again. To me that's more-or-less convincing.

I agree. The impression I took from Tanaka when, an episode or two back, he started screaming in terror at a frozen Ogata after a Fuzetsu had been brought up, is that Tanaka now has a phobia of Fuzetsus in general. Like yourself, I think that he now associates Fuzetsus with Ogata being in severe danger.

I actually like the twists involving Tanaka and Satou. It wasn't that long ago when Tanaka seemed to be the far more enthusiastic of the two in supporting Marjery and fighting the good fight against tomogaras. Now, however, Tanaka is leaving the Flame Haze world entirely, while Satou is moving deeper into it.

The episode as a whole felt like a filler episode to me, even if parts of it/all of it were based on the Shana novels.

But... if this is a filler episode, it's one of the better anime filler episodes that I've seen.

The "Syndonay and beasts obliterates Outlaw" opening was extremely cool, and a nice surprise for me, but after that... it just didn't feel like there was enough action to this episode.

I liked the Yuji/Shana training sessions (though it annoyed me when they skipped away from one just as it was getting good to check out Tanaka in an arcade). I really like Yuji's change in attitude.

Still, I don't like how, even now, he can't do anything more than dodge Shana or block her sword swings. I'd like him to actually knock her unto her back for a change of pace, even if it's simply through using her own kinetic force against her with a judo throw of sorts. The writers could, if they want, have her get up, and then in shocked anger knock Yuji unto his back, to reinforce how Shana is, of course, the main fighting protagonist... but just having Yuji actually show that he can seriously fight Shana would do loads for him and his character, imo.

I found the Wilhelmina flashback concerning Sabrac, and the eternal lovers, to be very informative and fun to watch. It's a great way to build up Sabrac too, of course.

All of the Tanaka/Ogata, and Tanaka/Satou, scenes in this episode where great too. I really like how the Tanaka/Ogata relationship has developed, and how the Tanaka/Satou friendship has developed.

The scenes beyond the ones that I've gone into detail in talking about though... all of those felt like they were inserted to simply fill out the necessary episode length.

So, 8/10 overall for me.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-02-11, 21:58

I think that the konoe-arc ruined season 2 for most of the people. Usually there aren't many complains for decent/good 'plot advancing' episodes. But because there have been so many 'weak' episodes in the beginning, people complain very easily now.

Duly noted. I guess the expectations of having a great season with other hopes i.e. manifestation of the novel material such as the distant past with Mathilda St.Omer, or an immediate dive into the story itself probably led many to be disappointed. Considering that much of the first half of the anime was mostly anime-original, that is.

Aside from that, I would have to attribute it to the fact that SnS II has been inconsistent in dealing out exciting episodes. I get the feeling that as it gets categorized as a show with action as its main attraction, slow, developmental episodes or those which have no bearing with the storyline tend to get criticised with a few particular characters getting all the flak. Not that all of them don't deserve bits and pieces of that, but considering how popular and (if I may add) a success SnS season 1 was, expectations tend to be higher, and when people start seeing things they don't like, criticism comes first.

There's the romantic spectrum of the show as well, I suppose. Novel material or not, Kazumi's role has been cheapened in that she hasn't been given a way to be more involved in the 'love triangle' after her declaration of war in the last season. Rather than just having an annoying character for people to hate, I thought it might be poor handling of a character on the part of the producers instead.

The entire season so far is inconsistent, I would say, but the better episodes were excellent, while I try not to bash 'slow' episodes unneccessarily.

@_DaViD_: Come to think of it...Drell was a Flame Haze too, unless his abilities at sensing POE are average at best or Metamorphosis has an ability to hide his own POE well enough, he should have sensed Sydonay coming. Anyone care to answer? (Forgive me if this was already answered earlier, since I haven't had the time to flip through all the pages) :p

HayashiTakara

2008-02-11, 22:10

Due to Yuji's analytical mind, he has the potential to become an extremely powerful warrior. And once he learns how to do spells to, he'll be a magic swordsman, which is totally wicked.

Irenicus

2008-02-11, 22:20

I can totally imagine Friagne fapping to fetishist pr0n.
Gives a whole new meaning to his signature line "Ah, Marianne." :uhoh:

I actually like the twists involving Tanaka and Satou. It wasn't that long ago when Tanaka seemed to be the far more enthusiastic of the two in supporting Marjery and fighting the good fight against tomogaras. Now, however, Tanaka is leaving the Flame Haze world entirely, while Satou is moving deeper into it.
Yay, somebody agree with me for once! :p

Although, I always got the opposite impression in the Tanaka-Satou angle: it always appeared to me that Satou was always the more involved one. It's his house Margery was staying; he was the one who first tried to lift that Big Sword; and he interacted more with our hero than Tanaka -- and that's not counting the more obvious hints in Season 2.

The Real Nemo

2008-02-12, 00:42

Still, I don't like how, even now, he can't do anything more than dodge Shana or block her sword swings. I'd like him to actually knock her unto her back for a change of pace, even if it's simply through using her own kinetic force against her with a judo throw of sorts. The writers could, if they want, have her get up, and then in shocked anger knock Yuji unto his back, to reinforce how Shana is, of course, the main fighting protagonist... but just having Yuji actually show that he can seriously fight Shana would do loads for him and his character, imo.
Eh, this is Shana we're talking about. She's been trained for combat practically since she was born, I think it's still too soon to expect Yuji to be that good. Just the fact that he was able to disarm her for a moment is impressive enough IMO, even that caught me by surprise.

_DaViD_

2008-02-12, 01:59

The sad part is... it seems that Shana don't want Badass Yuji >_>

lol yeah! it seems to be like that xD! shana wants to keep pwning yuji

Master Chibi

2008-02-12, 03:20

There's the romantic spectrum of the show as well, I suppose. Novel material or not, Kazumi's role has been cheapened in that she hasn't been given a way to be more involved in the 'love triangle' after her declaration of war in the last season. Rather than just having an annoying character for people to hate, I thought it might be poor handling of a character on the part of the producers instead.

The 'romantic spectrum' in this season thus far has been garbage. In fact, there hasn't been anything remotely romantic this season worth noting outside of Tanaka and Ogata. When the first epsidode resets the character development of the entire season that came before it, well that's just a clear sign that they don't have a bloody clue what they're doing.

I was so happy to see where Shana and Yuji had gotten before that I end up mad and frustrated at the constant failed attempts of 'romance' that were thrown at us at the start of this season. I lost count of how many times Yoshida and Shana were plastered to the panes of the school's windows watching Yuji walking with Konoe, or the incessant need to repeat the lines Yuji's dad gave them as a pep talk, or Yoshida and Shana constantly acknowledging the other as a 'love rival'.

It's so horrendously bloody obvious that Yoshida doesn't have a chance in hell with Yuji no matter what she does. Fine, go ahead and like the character, cheer her on all you want, but in the end you know it's all for nothing because Yuji and Shana's relationship with one another is far more worthwhile, and Yoshida has never been anything more then a footnote to the entire ordeal since the very start of the first season. At best she served her purpose as something to stir up jealousy for Shana, but again that's helping develop Shana's character. Yoshida's pretty much been a plot device from the start (who stopped working 15 episodes ago).

Thank god Pheles gave her that cross (which apparently came with a pre-requisite of 50 flashbacks of her telling Yoshida what it's to be used for and what it really means to use it), because not only do I have the glimmer of hope that Yoshida will be written out of the story, but it actually gives her a reason to be there! Her showing up to the meeting Pheles was absurdly selfish, my forehead had handmarks from me slapping it too much while watching.

Bah.

viny

2008-02-12, 05:35

I mite just be stupid but does that little scene of Yoshida (recapping on the hogu) actually significant (since it's feels kinda repetitive)

Owaranai Destiny

2008-02-12, 07:06

The 'romantic spectrum' in this season thus far has been garbage. In fact, there hasn't been anything remotely romantic this season worth noting outside of Tanaka and Ogata. When the first epsidode resets the character development of the entire season that came before it, well that's just a clear sign that they don't have a bloody clue what they're doing

I was so happy to see where Shana and Yuji had gotten before that I end up mad and frustrated at the constant failed attempts of 'romance' that were thrown at us at the start of this season. I lost count of how many times Yoshida and Shana were plastered to the panes of the school's windows watching Yuji walking with Konoe, or the incessant need to repeat the lines Yuji's dad gave them as a pep talk, or Yoshida and Shana constantly acknowledging the other as a 'love rival'.

You know, I never did say the 'romance' aspect of SnS was good. On the other hand, you can prove me wrong by quoting any post in which I said otherwise...provided you can find it in this sub-forum. ;)

See, the thing is I don't bother to let it get to me that the relationship is going nowhere, because I'm confident that the Yuuji and Shana pairing is the most probable due to their existence as those of being 'non-human' and I can't really see how it is possible to reverse the whole situation such that Kazumi actually has an advantage.

It's so horrendously bloody obvious that Yoshida doesn't have a chance in hell with Yuji no matter what she does. Fine, go ahead and like the character, cheer her on all you want, but in the end you know it's all for nothing because Yuji and Shana's relationship with one another is far more worthwhile, and Yoshida has never been anything more then a footnote to the entire ordeal since the very start of the first season. At best she served her purpose as something to stir up jealousy for Shana, but again that's helping develop Shana's character. Yoshida's pretty much been a plot device from the start (who stopped working 15 episodes ago).

See? This is what I meant. Blind hatred. :rolleyes: The moment someone tries to consider the possibilities of her as a character, people like you grab hold of this opportunity to bash. When was it explicitly stated that I like Yoshida Kazumi? The only reason why I consider her character being poorly handled is due to there being no follow-up to her current situation after her declaration of her not wanting to lose at the end of Season 1. There were no opportunities for her and no turn of events that allowed her to be on 'equal' standing in the world of the Guze. This might actually be a little more useful than having all those Konoe episodes (which I consider essential, but not so much as to waste several episodes on it).

To defend myself (in a way), I have even considered Kazumi's repetitive monologue to be getting tiring, something that I had not stated explicitly since I didn't let it bother me.

Sinestra

2008-02-12, 09:14

Id be careful about all the Yoshida hate we dont know whats coming and the min we start to think we know something the unexpected happens. Nothing is for sure yet nothing has been clearly stated about "I like or dislike Yoshida". Lets just wait and see what happens. I am tired of her repetitive dialog as well but i happen to think its building to something else. For all we know Shana could die in the final fight saving Yuji which could only leave Yoshida. Im not saying its going to happen but consider every possibility before just spouting out the hate. I have faith that they will take her character to a new level and get out this crappy routine shit. If she just happens to serve as a plot device well my over all impression of the show is going to lower. If your not going to use a character get rid of them. Since she has been around for so long i cant help but theorize that her roll will be bigger later on. Look at what they did to Tanaka and he is now out of the picture. Im not trying to bash anyone just saying be careful with definitive answers because you might end being disappointed. Not to mention your blood pressure have a smoke take a drink have some sex or something but just calm down its not worth getting so worked up over.

Machina

2008-02-12, 09:29

Grimkill7

2008-02-12, 09:54

I don't blame Eita for his choice, but... I think he's being a little naïve. It seems to me that he's like " If I don't get involved with this world, then nothing will happen to Oga-chan!", and clearly, that's not the case. If anyone wanted to 'kill' or 'torchify' Ogata, then they would, even if he hadn't left his Ane-san. Well, so long, Eita. I still love you!

I'm in love with Satou, forever *_*

I don't think it's exactly that though. Now that he has given up his talisman(?) he can pretty much remain ignorant to any Guze related activities. Even if Oga gets torch'd, he wouldn't know about it and his memories of her would fade as she burns out. Plus, if he isn't involved with Margery anymore, the danger surrounding him and his gf goes down considerably.

And yea, I've always liked Satou. I kind of had my hopes up that he would get contracted and become a Flame Haze.

Also, this episode needed moar Hecanoe!

Machina

2008-02-12, 12:11

Haha, I liked Konoe more than I ever liked Hekate

DX HBK

2008-02-12, 12:21

lol yeah! it seems to be like that xD! shana wants to keep pwning yuji

Progress means that Yuji would have to go further.
And it won't be long before Yuji starts picking up on his combat skill.
He at least manages to disarm her.
But he got himself distracted as Shana went in for the kill.

Haha, I liked Konoe more than I ever liked Hekate

You'd think Yuji would say to Hecate in battle, "You're still as empty as you were before because Konoe had more of a soul than you ever will."

CapoExecutor

2008-02-12, 12:42

Does anyone happen to know what the year is in the anime?

Malzar

2008-02-12, 14:35

Nice episode, hmmm I think its just at this time they don't say anything about the year

teachopvutru

2008-02-12, 14:53

You'd think Yuji would say to Hecate in battle, "You're still as empty as you were before because Konoe had more of a soul than you ever will."

Ha, that would definitely save this series, especially to serenade_beta, who would probably then rate it 10/10. ;)

KholdStare

2008-02-12, 15:18

The relationship between Tanaka and Ogata is better than anything we've experienced this season regarding the Yuji-Shana-Kazumi triangle. It definitely saved any of the romance I loved in season one.

Whitemoon648

2008-02-12, 15:46

I don't think it's exactly that though. Now that he has given up his talisman(?) he can pretty much remain ignorant to any Guze related activities. Even if Oga gets torch'd, he wouldn't know about it and his memories of her would fade as she burns out. Plus, if he isn't involved with Margery anymore, the danger surrounding him and his gf goes down considerably.

And yea, I've always liked Satou. I kind of had my hopes up that he would get contracted and become a Flame Haze.

Also, this episode needed moar Hecanoe!

I agree with your point. And yes he would be ignorant. He doesnt want to deal with the pain. He wouldnt have those memories. But Most of the people here are calling him smart. Some are even saying he is doing it to protect Oga-chan. and also some are defending him against people who are calling him coward.

So If we say he is chickening out, then all is good. But people are actually defending him and saying he isnt. They are calling him smart. But the fact is that he is chickening out.

Well is that a good choice? Yes. Is he not a coward? Yes he is. Is he smart? Well i think thats arguable.

Anh_Minh

2008-02-12, 16:04

I wasn't that surprised with Satou and Tanaka's respective choices.

I always thought that Satou, despite being quiet and dishonest (Tsundere?) was always more serious about Margery. And Tanaka... From the get go, he always saw it all as an adventure, without really realizing the dangers. Ogata getting burned was a wake-up call.

Paul

2008-02-12, 16:11

Its strange that they are putting so much thought into showing Yoshida with her death-talisman, i mean i know its a big thing, but whenever they give it screentime it makes me feel like she is about to use it, and for no reason because Yuiji is not even there or in trouble.

Otherwise i rate this a 7/10 but thats propably becasue i watched it after an incredibly comical and well made episode of Clannad.

The Real Nemo

2008-02-12, 16:18

The 'romantic spectrum' in this season thus far has been garbage. In fact, there hasn't been anything remotely romantic this season worth noting outside of Tanaka and Ogata. When the first epsidode resets the character development of the entire season that came before it, well that's just a clear sign that they don't have a bloody clue what they're doing.

I was so happy to see where Shana and Yuji had gotten before that I end up mad and frustrated at the constant failed attempts of 'romance' that were thrown at us at the start of this season. I lost count of how many times Yoshida and Shana were plastered to the panes of the school's windows watching Yuji walking with Konoe, or the incessant need to repeat the lines Yuji's dad gave them as a pep talk, or Yoshida and Shana constantly acknowledging the other as a 'love rival'.
They only gave Shana and Yuji as much romantic development as they did in the first season in order to help give it some closure since they weren't sure if there would be a second, when there was they had no choice but to backtrack if they still wanted to follow the novels at all.
It's so horrendously bloody obvious that Yoshida doesn't have a chance in hell with Yuji no matter what she does. Fine, go ahead and like the character, cheer her on all you want, but in the end you know it's all for nothing because Yuji and Shana's relationship with one another is far more worthwhile, and Yoshida has never been anything more then a footnote to the entire ordeal since the very start of the first season. At best she served her purpose as something to stir up jealousy for Shana, but again that's helping develop Shana's character. Yoshida's pretty much been a plot device from the start (who stopped working 15 episodes ago).

Thank god Pheles gave her that cross (which apparently came with a pre-requisite of 50 flashbacks of her telling Yoshida what it's to be used for and what it really means to use it), because not only do I have the glimmer of hope that Yoshida will be written out of the story, but it actually gives her a reason to be there! Her showing up to the meeting Pheles was absurdly selfish, my forehead had handmarks from me slapping it too much while watching.

Bah.
You know, it *is* possible to empathize with and like Kazumi Yoshida as a character while still acknowledging that she doesn't have a chance with Yuji...

Liddo-kun

2008-02-12, 17:44

I hope this is the last episode centered on Tanaka x Ogata
Seriuosly, I don't find them interesting characters at all.

I even enjoyed the Konoe episodes better than this one, at least Konoe has some mystery surrounding her.

Tendou88

2008-02-12, 17:54

I want to see some 3x urusai and melon bread...

this episode gets a 8 / 10

serenade_beta

2008-02-12, 17:54

Haha, I liked Konoe more than I ever liked Hekate

*thumbs-up*

Ha, that would definitely save this series, especially to serenade_beta, who would probably then rate it 10/10. ;)

:heh:
And Hecate should spit Fumina back out and go back to praying.

Grimkill7

2008-02-12, 18:02

I want to see some 3x urusai and melon bread...

this episode gets a 8 / 10

Your three urusai are gone. Tsun Shana is dead - J.C. Staff murdered her. Someone call the police!

Don't worry though, when the next Shana-tan rolls around, you will get Uruchai! and that's almost as good.

Tendou88

2008-02-12, 20:35

Maybe Shana matured in season2 while thinking about yuujis feeling etc

Triple_R

2008-02-12, 20:49

They only gave Shana and Yuji as much romantic development as they did in the first season in order to help give it some closure since they weren't sure if there would be a second, when there was they had no choice but to backtrack if they still wanted to follow the novels at all.

You know, it *is* possible to empathize with and like Kazumi Yoshida as a character while still acknowledging that she doesn't have a chance with Yuji...

I agree on both of your points here, Nemo.

The "Yuji didn't hear Shana's confession." reset was kind of contrived, and annoying, but in order to keep the romantic tension going, I suppose it was necessary.

Also, in fairness, until the last few episodes, I thought that Kazumi did have a decent shot of ending up with Yuji... it's only over the last few episodes where Yuji/Shana seems like a foregone conclussion.

For a long period during Season 1, I felt that Kazumi had the edge on Shana, largely since Kazumi was admirably more straightforward in expressing her feelings to Yuji (Shana could learn something there), and also since Shana chickened out a bit on the whole "will Shana kiss Yuji?" part of Season 1.

As for our slightly differing takes on the latest Yuji/Shana training sessions - well, I do think that they've progressed nicely from even just a few episodes ago, so that's good. On this point, I think that we can agree. :)

DX HBK

2008-02-12, 20:56

:heh:
And Hecate should spit Fumina back out and go back to praying.

Nah, how about Hecate residing WITHIN Fumina for a change? That way, at least,
Hecate would be subconsciously telling her what to do and what not to do in certain
situations.

Your three urusai are gone. Tsun Shana is dead - J.C. Staff murdered her. Someone call the police!

Don't worry though, when the next Shana-tan rolls around, you will get Uruchai! and that's almost as good.

Growing up means Shana is done being a child.
But in battle, she's got skills of the wild.
In the Shana-tan specials,
Triple uruchais may be one of the things worthwhile to see.
But in regards to their adult themes,
I hope to see Pheles try to violate a cornered Yuji.

Aquifina

2008-02-12, 23:49

I for one don't think Yuji's new badassness is actually all that much out of character; it's actually far more plausible than his obliviousness during the Konoe arc. Early in season 1, Yuji was shown to be adaptable and level-headed, and he was the one who asked for the training in the first place. I didn't dislike the Konoe episodes as much as some people, but it certainly was dubious in many ways. Yuji's panicky behavior in the Pheles arc disappointed me, but it was far more plausible than the emotional cluelessness of the Konoe arc; how well would any of you deal with the idea that a powerful Tomogara is obsessed with you, that some crazy armored monster is also residing inside of you, and, oh, btw, the folks who nearly killed you at the end of season 1 are still after you? That scene where Yuji felt distant from his own parents struck me as terribly sad. I'll cut the kid some slack, and his new determination to *do* something about it brings back the old Yuji who instead of dwelling on his fate as a torch spent so much effort trying to make Hirai's last moments somewhat happy. Remember Shana's comment that some torches actually committed suicide after hearing the truth? Most can't handle the truth, and Yuji has done quite well dealing with his fate. He's decided to fight, and more power to him for it.

Yuji's reaction to Shana's panicked hugging in the previous ep. also brought back some of his emotional awareness, it seems; I don't mind in principle the idea that Yuji doesn't fully realize Shana's feelings, but the Konoe arc mishandled the issue pretty badly. Hopefully we're done with that. The return of tsundere Shana with her roundhouse kick in training was also nice. :)

As for Shana's seeming confusion over Yuji's aggressiveness; I'm not sure what to make of it. It could be an interesting way to look at their relationship; Shana's clearly very protective of Yuji, and she may have to adjust to his new desire to fight things out himself, as opposed him to just being a helper of sorts. Shana always wanted Yuji to be able to fight, but that was mostly because it was a way of them being together; I think she always expected him to hang back in relative safety. He'd have to be capable enough to take care of himself on a basic level, and to be useful, so that they could truly fight *together*, but I don't think Shana ever conceived of him as actually engaging in direct combat with a melee weapon, where he wouldn't be so easily protected by her. After all of Shana's complaints about his weakness and resolve, this is somewhat ironic, and brings back some of her old tsundere character. Underneath all that tough rhetoric, she'd actually rather Yuji be less determined in combat so she can protect him better.

Ashlotte

2008-02-13, 00:14

Well I quite enjoyed the episode in and of itself...But it didn't do much to help ease the feeling that the majority of this season has been extremely dull...

Wheres the energy and emotion from the first season? This season just feels like its chugging along at a very slow pace and im struggling to not fall asleep at this point...

Above all though...It needs more shana...For someone whose name is on the title she's gotten surprisingly little screen time and done just about nothing with the time she has managed to get...

It seems every episode I find myself hoping that this i'll be the one...The one when shana and yuji finally get that fun relationship of fighting together again...Guess i'll keep on hoping...

blitzx

2008-02-13, 01:05

I never heard "Urusai Urusai Urusai" again from shana -_-
if I dont wrong, she just said it once in eps.1 or eps.2...

minhtam1638

2008-02-13, 03:01

I want to see some 3x urusai and melon bread...

Go find Suiseiseki. She can say it much more kawaii.

You still got the melon bread, though. There aren't as much opportunities in which food is a factor lately, but it will come around eventually.

grey_moon

2008-02-13, 03:07

Before I start my rant... I mean post I'd like to say I like the new Yuji, but...

The changes to Yuji's personality and character seem so clunky to me. From the beginning of S1 to now it feels like I'm sitting in a car of a beginner driver. But in saying that I am far happier with this new motivated Yuji then back hole boy from earlier episodes.

Its really hard to say how I feel about Tanaka, whilst I respect him for making his own decision, I kinda think it is the ostrich path. The problem with SnS universe is once you realise what is really going on in the world, it means that you can be eaten/blown up at anytime and then no one will realise that you even existed. At least if he kept the talisman he could have noticed when something was up and been able to attempt to pull his loved ones out of danger.

Me thinks maybe it is not Margery he is scared/hates/angsting over, but himself. Remember in S1 when the class room was attacked, Yuji tried his darndest to pull everyone out of the room. Tanaka didn't really have any time but he didn't do anything but freeze when Margery went nuts. So maybe deep down inside Tanaka is hating himself for his lack of action? I am a bit confused about how she was fixed as I thought too much damage can't be repaired.

cnnydz

2008-02-13, 03:09

I never heard "Urusai Urusai Urusai" again from shana -_-
if I dont wrong, she just said it once in eps.1 or eps.2...

and u never will hear it again:heh::heh::heh:

grey_moon

2008-02-13, 03:10

and u never will hear it again:heh::heh::heh:

Didn't Nagi steal them lines :p

Anh_Minh

2008-02-13, 03:42

minhtam1638

2008-02-13, 06:16

Didn't Nagi steal them lines :p

She ain't the only one guilty, y'know.

grey_moon

2008-02-13, 06:19

I think you can repair anything, as long as you've got the PoE for it. Yuuji's got a lot, and he's willing to donate it.

Ah I might be getting confused with the fuzetsu being broken before repairs are done.

dave55man

2008-02-13, 15:45

I really don't see where Yuji's personality changed, that is if you compare Yuji from the end of S1 to around episode 12 in S2 (meaning you forget that the Konoe are ever happened). Yuji's panicing with the Phele's arc is explainable in that he did go through a lot of trama there and now he's finally getting back to his good old self like he was in S1. I hope that Yuji gets more badass as the season progresses :P

DX HBK

2008-02-13, 21:25

He's cornered so it's natural for Yuji to change the outlook on his own situation.

HayashiTakara

2008-02-13, 23:59

I agree, Yuji is forced into a situation where if he doesn't change, it could mean his death and everything dear to him.

I'm DYING HERE!!!!!!!!! I NEED MY SHANA FIX!!!!!

Eisdrache

2008-02-14, 12:02

I know I am late -.-

However is it only me or are several characters going a 180 degree change of their pace?
Satou and Eita probably got more lines in this episode than in full season 1.
Emo Eita wtf
Yuji becoming half-way obsessed with training his skills
Shana, the 999'999 points scoring Flame Haze got her "killing blow" deflected that easily and even her sword was sent into the air. Even with the moment of surprise I wondered.

_DaViD_

2008-02-14, 18:56

i just want more romantic scenes, and fights no more damn flashback *cough cough *yoshida and pheles* cough cough*

grey_moon

2008-02-14, 18:56

I wonder what the thought bubble in her head at the time she was disarmed would be?

Shana: Whhhaaaa... Revenge!!! (in a worms like voice)

qtipbrit

2008-02-19, 04:13

i just want more romantic scenes, and fights no more damn flashback *cough cough *yoshida and pheles* cough cough*
J.C. Staff already ruined the whole romantic feel of the series. If you read the light novels, there's much more romantic atmospheres/dialogues/etc. than there are in the anime.
Also, since we're this far into the series with no clear epic Balle Masque - Flame Haze faceoff, I'd venture to say that a third season is probably on the way.
I wonder what the thought bubble in her head at the time she was disarmed would be?

Shana: Whhhaaaa... Revenge!!! (in a worms like voice)
Since I'm about to switch to deredere mode, I have to kick him so he doesn't notice me. That was pretty epic, though. They had to add the extra kick at the end like in all training-type scenes when the trainee finally progress and beats the sensei in some way.