Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Pellissier

2008-02-28, 07:30

Welcome to the discussion thread for Shakugan no Shana II, Episode 20.

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Tendou88

2008-02-28, 09:02

I hope this episode will give us some action.

Kristen

2008-02-28, 10:00

Hopefully this episode will have more action and more Kazumi. :)

My biggest question is whether that guy (Tarmac I think?) is the same guy inside Yuji.

Gotank

2008-02-28, 10:45

More neck choking please!

By the way, are SS-eclipse the only fansubbers for this series?

HayashiTakara

2008-02-28, 10:48

zOmG, already? I want Yuji to break Sabrec's neck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

minhtam1638

2008-02-28, 10:54

More neck choking please!

By the way, are SS-eclipse the only fansubbers for this series?

No, but they are definitely the best option. From what I heard, Ayako and Your-Mom Fansubs are doing a joint for this project as well.

Arnaiyus

2008-02-28, 12:03

For some reason, this episode is the most anticipated for me. Probably just Sabrac that draws my attention so much...

Anyone knows at approximately what time will the episode appear on NicoVideo?

EDIT: Episode *should* be up at NicoVideo now, can't access it from here unfortunately. Screencaps are up as always (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2008/02/28/shakugan-no-shana-ii-20/) and I must say, even though it focuses more on Whilelmina, this episodes looks like it delivers at last!

teachopvutru

2008-02-28, 16:29

No, but they are definitely the best option. From what I heard, Ayako and Your-Mom Fansubs are doing a joint for this project as well.

Plus, Ayako-YM is behind. Their latest release was the 12th episode.

DeotoxSlayer

2008-02-28, 16:42

Hopefully this episode will have more action and more Kazumi. :)

My biggest question is whether that guy (Tarmac I think?) is the same guy inside Yuji.

huh who's Tarmac???

Also I don't hink they'll be much if any Kazumi in this ep (since it's a mainly fighting episode, where all the Flame Haze supposed to be beaten to near death), but according to the spoilers she'll do something in the 21st Episode, and no I don't think she's gonna use the Death Cross, atleast not yet anyway.

Arnaiyus

2008-02-28, 17:25

Well it seems NicoVideo are having problems with the episode...we have to wait for someone to re-upload it or just wait for veoh...*sigh* patience is a virtue :).

Kristen

2008-02-28, 17:36

huh who's Tarmac???

Also I don't hink they'll be much if any Kazumi in this ep (since it's a mainly fighting episode, where all the Flame Haze supposed to be beaten to near death), but according to the spoilers she'll do something in the 21st Episode, and no I don't think she's gonna use the Death Cross, atleast not yet anyway.

Sabrec. :p My poor spelling and remembering is bad.

DeotoxSlayer

2008-02-28, 18:08

Sabrec. :p My poor spelling and remembering is bad.

O.O u mean Sabrac(you spelled it wrong again:D) and to answer your question no Sabrac is not the person sealed inside the Reiji Maigo...he's the one that sealed the Guy in the Reiji Maigo.

piku

2008-02-28, 18:14

very very nice battle scene. satisfied on timing and special effect, BGM and drawing style, although there will be almost noting beside battle scene in this episode. so exciting on battle that just almost the same as novel.

really don't know why spend so much time on anime original story but make the battle scene on wilhelmina vs margery so rough in episode 13...

looking forward for more description on margery & keisaku, as well as shana & kazumi in next episode.

well done, wilhemina, good job, sabarc

and for shizuka ito (the saiyuu of wilhelmina) and the peoples making special effect and battle scene, all you have done fantastic work in this episode. thank you very much.

ashlay

2008-02-28, 18:55

really fun fight, probably the best one yet. (I mean I felt like it was right up there with the last fight in the movie) Wilhelmina and Sabrac throw all sorts of crazy techs at each other, Stigma gives the battle a real sense of urgency, and there's plenty of feints by both sides (oh, and Sabrac keeps doing the Gunbuster pose :heh:); hopefully whatever they've got planned for the season finale will be as enjoyable as this was.

Also interested to see if Margery's little development this week goes anywhere in the few weeks remaining, it's a real chance for her to have some character development after spending most of the season drunk or acting mean.

anyway, next week looks like it's time for everyone to team up and take Sabrac down. Well, or die trying. >_>

Arnaiyus

2008-02-28, 18:56

One of the better episodes out there I must say.

-Sabrac is the most badass villain I have seen, and his voice actor is perfect too.

-Visuals are top notch and we gotta love the BGM throught the entire epi, I even recognized a season 1 tune in there :).

-Those who pointed out "Yuji goes screaming again" I'm sorry but he's still awesome. They are facing one of the strongest Guze no Ō, of course he'd scream if he sees a million firebolts coming at him. He didn't learn how to escape quickly in battle (nor how to fly). He knows how to wield swords, how to cast a fuzetsu and how to control his PoE to make his own fireballs...but that's it. Where Yuji truly shines is in his analysis of situations at hand. We'll likely see how he will find a way to turn the tables next episode.

-Speaking of next episode, if it doesn't conclude the battle with Sabrac, that means even less episodes to conclude "That which will happen soon"...I'm also feeling that we probably won't see much on the romance part of the show anymore.

ashlay

2008-02-28, 19:10

if they're going to do "that" this really will be a massive cliffhanger. Though maybe that's not such a bad thing. :rolleyes:

ah well, we'll know in 2 episodes. right? :uhoh:

serenade_beta

2008-02-28, 19:49

-Sabrac cut off his arm and used it to launch an attack! >_<

-Yuuji's scream is back! Haven't heard it since Pheles...
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"

!!!!!!!!!
That was one awesome fight!
Wilhelmina proves how strong she is with her various techniques, but Sabrac was just godly awesome!
His Unrestricted Method, Stigma, is very dangerous, he has godly skills, godly attack and defense, and his techniques are just... wow... Especially that one that erupted swords out of the ground (ripping apart the civilians...).
Oh, and his madder red flames are cool too. At least it fits flames and doesn't look like smoke or clouds.
Comparing him to Zarovee makes him even stronger... Well, comparing him to both Zarovee and Bifrons... It's like fighting a level 7 boss and then suddenly a level 50 enemy appears...

But I bet Yuuji is going to find some way to defeat him in that drainage pipe he's in...

Sato/Margery/Kazumi/Shana's appearances unfortunately broke the fight up into pieces... and what happened with them weren't that interesting...
Sato and Kazumi: o_O
Shana and Margery: Wounds get worse through Stigma

Preview: Everyone works together so "Uniting Powers"?

Arnaiyus

2008-02-28, 19:59

Kristen

2008-02-28, 20:24

O.O u mean Sabrac(you spelled it wrong again:D) and to answer your question no Sabrac is not the person sealed inside the Reiji Maigo...he's the one that sealed the Guy in the Reiji Maigo.

PLEASE stop spoiling this for me. I don't want to know this stuff and want to have my own wild speculations to have them proven completely wrong.

teachopvutru

2008-02-28, 20:25

Actually after thinking about it, I really suppose they will end episode 24 with "THAT" which many of you already know what it is about. Of course it will be a cliffhanger BUT it also means the probability of seeing a season 3 when future novels are released skyrockets. I'm always up for more Shakugan No Shana :D

Hmmm, I'm curious about how much of the novel material J.C.Staff has already covered. If there are not too much left, we probably will have to wait for a while for Season 3, or just a short new season. Otherwise, they may end up making OVA or movies instead... :uhoh:

Sterling01

2008-02-28, 20:30

Hmmm, I'm curious about how much of the novel material J.C.Staff has already covered. If there are not too much left, we probably will have to wait for a while for Season 3, or just a short new season. Otherwise, they may end up making OVA or movies instead... :uhoh:
There already up to Novel 14 and Novel 16 is the only one left (so far) that deals with the main storyline

O.O u mean Sabrac(you spelled it wrong again:D) and to answer your question no Sabrac is not the person sealed inside the Reiji Maigo...he's the one that sealed the Guy in the Reiji Maigo.

PLEASE stop spoiling this for me. I don't want to know this stuff and want to have my own wild speculations to have them proven completely wrong.

That was revealed in the anime already

Kristen

2008-02-28, 20:43

There already up to Novel 14 and Novel 16 is the only one left (so far) that deals with the main storyline

That was revealed in the anime already

That the armor guy inside of Yuji wasn't Sabrac? Where? I thought that was still a mystery.

cnnydz

2008-02-28, 21:08

That the armor guy inside of Yuji wasn't Sabrac? Where? I thought that was still a mystery.

first of all, silver is not inside the reiji maigo, he is shown to be inside seireiden in episode 17
and in episode 14, pheles told them that sabrac casted a spell on the reiji maigo before it was transfered to yuji (so sabrac is not inside of reijji maigo, he put something in).

Kristen

2008-02-28, 21:16

first of all, silver is not inside the reiji maigo, he is shown to be inside seireiden in episode 17
and in episode 14, pheles told them that sabrac casted a spell on the reiji maigo before it was transfered to yuji (so sabrac is not inside of reijji maigo, he put something in).

THAT's what the thing in the seirediden is? I thought that was just something that Bal Masque was creating, and it had an odd connection to the silver.
I also thought that Sabrac could have possible casted that spell, but in doing it, he got caught in it.

Still, I would have loved to find this out myself. :(

Sterling01

2008-02-28, 21:25

THAT's what the thing in the seirediden is? I thought that was just something that Bal Masque was creating, and it had an odd connection to the silver.
I also thought that Sabrac could have possible casted that spell, but in doing it, he got caught in it.

Still, I would have loved to find this out myself. :(
The Anime showed it to you. It's your fault for not realizing it. :heh::heh:

CapoExecutor

2008-02-28, 21:29

I'm surprised that the Seireiden hasn't been blown out of the sky regarding whatever experiements Dantalion does.

The Real Nemo

2008-02-28, 22:33

Are they at Seireiden currently? I know it was mentioned early on that Bal Masque was using a temporary base until Seireiden could be repaired since it was destroyed by Alastor in the series 1 finale.

SoldierOfDarkness

2008-02-28, 22:36

Exactly why was there a huge pause when Sabrac first stabbed Yuji?

CapoExecutor

2008-02-28, 22:37

Exactly why was there a huge pause when Sabrac first stabbed Yuji?

Because Sabrac thought, "Hey, that wasn't in the script."

Sterling01

2008-02-28, 22:44

If you look (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Shakugan%20no%20Shana/Shakugan%20no%20Shana%20II%20-%2020%20-%20Large%2003.jpg) closely the tip of the blade was already inside Yuji with something attached to it

CapoExecutor

2008-02-28, 22:47

Looks like Yuji's bookmark for the Blutsauger blocking the thrust but I could be wrong.

cnnydz

2008-02-28, 22:57

well margery gave yuji a bookmark with a defense spell, i think.

Mai Kawasumi

2008-02-28, 22:57

Excellent episode!

<3 Sabrac

and Wilhelmina FTW! the battle was F*CKING GREAT!

ThoHell

2008-02-29, 01:03

Only one word can describe Sabrac....GNARLY! He's one completely outrageous character in both skill and strength. Why seek more power? He doesn't need anymore.... He's a one man army as is, someone who should be a main villain. Everything about him is completely off the charts compared to everyone we've seen. Good episode, can't wait to see the next one to see how they handle him!

arkxkra

2008-02-29, 09:00

ThoHell

2008-02-29, 09:07

good episode, finally it getting more interesting, the fighting was good, didnt disappointed.

btw, Sabrac is so damn cool.

Yuji getting stronger and stronger, quuite cool.

looking forward to next episode. I wonder how they wil beat the Sabrac.

Watch Yuji find Sabrac heart or something in that tunnel, which will be completely defenseless. All I know is they can't beat him head on. I think it would be easy for me to say that he is the most individually powerful villain we've seen so far.

Deathkillz

2008-02-29, 10:32

Sabrac reminds me of rogues from WoW...only more haxx :twitch:
Now this is what I'm talking about!

The fight is totally awesome...Sabrac and his pew pews, it's like watching a game of touhou being animated :heh:

I guess he is unbeatable unless you burn every molecule in his body (where have I seen this from :rolleyes:).

Things doesn't look good for Wilhelmina...*fingers crossed*

kyoulover

2008-02-29, 10:54

Wew...eventhough i know that sabrac is strong...just don't expect for him to be this strong :heh:

you could say almost impossible to beat this godlike enemy. wonder how yuji cs will beat him

and this ep is really great...full of action shakugan no shana ^^

looks like the battle with sabrac will take a while :heh:

Mukki

2008-02-29, 11:51

PLEASE stop spoiling this for me. I don't want to know this stuff and want to have my own wild speculations to have them proven completely wrong.

Fairly certain this was already explained in episode 13.

HayashiTakara

2008-02-29, 12:31

Yeah they explained that Sabrac was the one responsible for inserting Silver into the Reigi Meigo a few episodes back... maybe you missed it?

Deathscyther

2008-02-29, 12:50

Omg, just saw episode 20 and I'm like WOW =D
The episode was crazy. It was the best episode of this season and maybe even in the whole series. I was at the edge of my seat the entire episode. =O

First off...Sabrac is badass. The best and strongest enemy in the series, no question about it. He's got super speed, super strenght, longe range attacks, super fast regenerative powers (remind me of cell from dbz) and he's got a unrestricted spell which causes wounds to bleed and hurt more. So get hit once..and you're in for a lot of pain.

I mean...he used one big attack...and Shana and Margery and Yuji were all out. Wilhelmina was the only one who got out of it okay, probably because she had fought him before.

Wilhelmina went up a few ranks in my book now as well. She's almost up to par to Shana now in my opinion. I just loved her this episode. I never knew she was that strong. She didn't show much of her techniques before, but I'm sure that she's stronger than Shana and Margery if she'd fight with her all. And I loved how she protected Yuji and showed an aggressive side which she hadn't shown before.

Looks like the flame hazes are going to combine powers next episode, while Yuji uses his own strenght...his mind/brains.

I can't wait until next episode x_x;

serenade_beta

2008-02-29, 18:14

Uniting Powers

During her intense fight with Sabrac, Wilhelmina begins to show signs of fatigue. In this desperate crisis, Shana appears along with crimson flames.
The Unrestricted Method that causes wounds to enlarge with time.
Because Sabrac thought the other Flame Hazes couldn't move because of that, he was shocked at Shana's appearance.
But Sabrac's shock did not end there.
The uncomfortable feeling he had ever since Zarovee appeared, and even after the battle against Zarovee was over.
While Wilhelmina fought Sabrac by herself, Yuuji focused on it, thought, and came to a conclusion.
And so, a battle plan by the three Flame Hazes, one Mystes, and the two humans, Satou and Kazumi, starts.

Nothing about that thing...

Bifrons, Fecor, and Zarovee gets a profile.
For some reason, Fumina doesn't have a line connecting her to Hecate... But that's good, so all is well.

Zarovee's picture... (-_-)
http://www.shakugan.com/chara/pop/img/zaro-bi.gif
Something about five of those faces looking at me...

I accidentally spelled Fumina as Fumika...

monir

2008-02-29, 19:27

Whitemoon648

2008-02-29, 20:11

I liked the Sabrac voice actually. It fits him well. Strong but at the same time calm. At the same time i like his character too. I mean like in some animes one of the main character is calm and defeat the enemy untill the end. Like how That Rosewipe guy ( fox) was in Yuyu Hakushu or How Gaara was when he was fighting That bone guy.

Well as the episode , well no pheles = 9.

Malintex_Terek

2008-02-29, 20:39

I'm in love. Sabrac's voice sounded very familiar and yet I couldn't put my finger on it who it was until ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=10402) reveals it is none other than Kuroda Takaya. Wolf's Rain fans will recognize his voice as Darcia. ANN also has GAR! profile picture on him. Enjoyed the episode very much.

I don't have sound, but Sabrac looked so bloody awesome and people were talking about how awesome the VA sounded, so I looked him up and "GAR" was my impression as well. :heh: I've never heard this CV in a role before, so I can only imagine what he would sound like. Thus far, I'm thinking of a cross between Ryuuzaburo Otomo and Kouji Nakata. :)

...

That said I didn't like this episode too much. Beyond the fight not much happened. The fights in Shana I were a lot more progression-friendly.

Kinny Riddle

2008-03-01, 02:18

http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/328/e67e033275887.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e67e033275887)

I'm in love. Sabrac's voice sounded very familiar and yet I couldn't put my finger on it who it was until ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=10402) reveals it is none other than Kuroda Takaya. Wolf's Rain fans will recognize his voice as Darcia. ANN also has GAR! profile picture on him. Enjoyed the episode very much.
Darcia was probably one of the most awesome psycho villains out there, always plotting something devious while still remaining calm and reserved at all times.

Anyway, Sabrac is completely haxx0rs. lol
He appears and takes Shana and Margery out and badly injures Wilhelmina.

Perhaps his strength is why he decides to do become a hitman for hire rather than join a large Denizen organization like Bal Masque for protection from Flame Hazes, since he doesn't really need any. Protection is for weaklings like Zarovee.

Though overshadowed by Sabrac's invincibility, Wilhelmina too is awesome in this episode, Ito Shizuka really brought her to life this episode.

cnnydz

2008-03-01, 14:02

lol stop talking about "it" guys. anyway next episode should be awsome, much destruction are coming this way, and i am always ready to see more of the powers of pheles and johan.

Deathscyther

2008-03-01, 17:32

But this is not the place to talk about it^^

Skyfall

2008-03-01, 17:38

Thread Guidelines
Spoilers about future events must not be posted in this thread.
If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=vb_board_usage#faq_vb_pm_explain).
Spoiler Policy

Any spoiler that reveals future events, even under a spoiler tag, will be deleted.
Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
Posting prohibited spoilers may result in a ban.
Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.

Now, which part of the above is so hard to understand :eyebrow:
There is a speculation thread for experienced watchers: use it instead of posting spoilerish comments in the episode thread.

DX HBK

2008-03-01, 18:18

Whitemoon648

2008-03-01, 19:17

Whatever you say, papi.

No one will post spoilers in written and understandable text on this thread.

I have to agree with skyfall. Spoilers just cant be used in this thread. You can have quadriple spoiler tag a spoiler with ten pages of warning that this is spoiler, and still you cant do that.

You said " No one will post spoilers in written and understandable text" , which means you admit some people will still hint at spoilers but they are not in an undrestandable text? why do they even need to post spoilers in an anime only ( being it undrestandable or not). Posting a not undrestandable spoiler purposely ( when you have so many other threads created for such) is much worse than Posting an spoiler mistakenly.

Spoilers ( even hints to spoilers) will just lead to even worse spoilers.

I know none of the members here would purposely spoil others , But still could you guys please avoid the temptation of talking about future events :D?

P.S. these kind of posts just makes many of the forum members to avoid the forum. And also it will ruin the series for anime watchers. You ( novel/manga readers) enjoyed the series without being spoiled. At least give the anime-watchers the same chance to enjoy it.

DX HBK

2008-03-01, 21:04

I have to agree with skyfall. Spoilers just cant be used in this thread. You can have quadriple spoiler tag a spoiler with ten pages of warning that this is spoiler, and still you cant do that.

You said " No one will post spoilers in written and understandable text" , which means you admit some people will still hint at spoilers but they are not in an undrestandable text? why do they even need to post spoilers in an anime only ( being it undrestandable or not). Posting a not undrestandable spoiler purposely ( when you have so many other threads created for such) is much worse than Posting an spoiler mistakenly.

Spoilers ( even hints to spoilers) will just lead to even worse spoilers.

I know none of the members here would purposely spoil others , But still could you guys please avoid the temptation of talking about future events :D?

P.S. these kind of posts just makes many of the forum members to avoid the forum. And also it will ruin the series for anime watchers. You ( novel/manga readers) enjoyed the series without being spoiled. At least give the anime-watchers the same chance to enjoy it.

The earlier posts weren't even close to spoilers.

Regarding the " No one will post spoilers in written and understandable text", decode the numbers below and you'll see what I mean.

82281111181981111151418191815148114171814131978181 9717403.

teachopvutru

2008-03-01, 21:13

The earlier posts weren't even close to spoilers.

Regarding the " No one will post spoilers in written and understandable text", decode the numbers below and you'll see what I mean.

82281111181981111151418191815148114171814131978181 9717403.

Well, there may be some people who are extremely sensitive to even the slightest spoiler so a precaution doesn't hurt... Even if they used the word "it", that would only obstruct those who do not know what that "it" is about to even say anything. (although Shana subforum kinda lack activity lately :p)

Whether deleting those posts are right or not, I don't think it hurts for them to go to Spoiler & Speculation thread instead.

And regarding those numbers, may I ask you to decode that instead?

Whitemoon648

2008-03-01, 21:23

The earlier posts weren't even close to spoilers.

Regarding the " No one will post spoilers in written and understandable text", decode the numbers below and you'll see what I mean.

82281111181981111151418191815148114171814131978181 9717403.

Some might, and some might not find it an spoiler. Thats not the point. Read the first post in the thread. Talking about future event in any ways is against the rules. There is a reason for that. You are supposed to follow the rules or you can get warns and eventually banned if you dont follow it.

The rules in animesuki forum didnt just apear out of no where. There is a reason for each. As a member you are supposed to follow it. I would tell you how those post could be hints of the future events in a PM if you wish.

DX HBK

2008-03-01, 21:54

Anyways, regarding the numbers;

8 22 8 11 11 18 19 8 11 11 15 14 18 19 18 15 14 8 11 4 17 18 14 13 19 7 8 18 19 7 17 4 0 3

I W I L L S T I L L P O S T S P O I L E R S O N T H I S T H R E A D

I actually thought that there would still be ways of finding routes around the rules in order to stay a step ahead of the moderators' collective intelligence, such as using the numbers in place of letters in that message where A=0 and Z=25.
Spoilers could still be posted using tactics that are equal or even greater than the numbers strategy, depending on how sophisticated the reader is in deciphering things.

But then again, no one would have time to do write this unless there were special programs where the text is typed, translated into something that can't be understood, and then deciphered when the code is cracked.

Anyways, I'll agree that spoilers should be kept out.

CapoExecutor

2008-03-01, 22:59

I thought that the Stigma would cause the blood to spew and gush forth like a geyser from the wounds but with the Flame Hazes bandaging themselves like that, I guess it won't be seen.

Sterling01

2008-03-02, 00:38

Now, which part of the above is so hard to understand :eyebrow:
There is a speculation thread for experienced watchers: use it instead of posting spoilerish comments in the episode thread.

Yeah, sorry about that.

I thought that the Stigma would cause the blood to spew and gush forth like a geyser from the wounds but with the Flame Hazes bandaging themselves like that, I guess it won't be seen.

Well Stigma is one of the more gruesome powers :heh::heh:

HayashiTakara

2008-03-02, 02:56

His ranged attack has (in RPG terms) a bleed status effect, lol, wheres the cure spell? XD

Skyfall

2008-03-02, 03:30

Please drop the subject about spoilers and at which point something starts to be an easily recognizable spoiling or not. We have a thread specifically created for such discussions, so i don't really see what is there to argue about. Our primary concern within weekly episode discussion threads are the anime-only watchers who wish to remain unspoiled, and the rules themselves are not open for discussion.

Now, back to the scheduled ep 20 discussion :)

Which reminds me ... was i the only one that found Wilhelmina flying through the better part of the episode somewhat odd ? Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, i don't ever recall her having demonstrated the ability for unassisted flight.

ashlay

2008-03-02, 03:32

she used all sorts of abilities this week we've never seen her use before. :D

Sterling01

2008-03-02, 04:26

Which reminds me ... was i the only one that found Wilhelmina flying through the better part of the episode somewhat odd ? Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, i don't ever recall her having demonstrated the ability for unassisted flight.

Well, that's mostly J.C Staff's fault :heh::heh:

Whitemoon648

2008-03-02, 07:14

she used all sorts of abilities this week we've never seen her use before. :D

She probably never had a need to use them before. Since This guy is the strongest she is throwing everything she has at him. I wonder when Pheles shows up ( if she ever does).

I want to see how her powers compare to Sabrac.

cnnydz

2008-03-02, 07:48

I wonder when Pheles shows up ( if she ever does).

I want to see how her powers compare to Sabrac.

next episode
in kazumi's flashback:heh::heh::heh:

Toreno

2008-03-02, 08:41

next episode
in kazumi's flashback:heh::heh::heh:

at least two times. :heh:

CapoExecutor

2008-03-02, 09:34

Now, back to the scheduled ep 20 discussion :)

Which reminds me ... was i the only one that found Wilhelmina flying through the better part of the episode somewhat odd ? Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, i don't ever recall her having demonstrated the ability for unassisted flight.

Well, in episode 4, didn't Wilhelmina fly and land on Yuji's balcony during Shana's rather jealous hehavior regarding Konoe?

Whitemoon648

2008-03-02, 15:30

next episode
in kazumi's flashback:heh::heh::heh:

Lol Good one :heh:.

better than nothing :D

teelotes

2008-03-02, 16:04

Lol Good one :heh:.

better than nothing :D

I guess many would think that it's worse than nothing :heh:

CapoExecutor

2008-03-02, 21:33

are Sabrac's long-range attacks flame-based or lightning based?

if it were flame-based, the Azure would have been useful.

Yuji should've lended Blutsauger to Wilhelmina.

HayashiTakara

2008-03-03, 10:59

Everything is flame base in the shana world, unless its specified otherwise... but PoE skills are Flame Based.

FlareKnight

2008-03-03, 19:24

Damn though, Sabrac is just insanely powerful. Can attack out of nowhere, inflict heavy damage that continues to get worse with time and has great defense. Total support to Carmel for standing strong even with that kind of opponent on her heels.

If Shana and Margery are going to do anything it will need to be sooner rather than later. Since if the wounds are just getting worse....

Well should at least be interesting to see what they do in this situation. Guy is just completely overwhelming. Definitely don't want to be on his list of people to kill.

KaneDragon

2008-03-03, 20:28

Sinestra

2008-03-03, 21:49

Well this episode was all about Wilhelmina The manipulator of objects. She used abilities that we have never seen before but hell up till now she has not had a need to. No one else in the group could be of any use none of them have ever faced Sabrac before. The only thing that Wilhelmina had in her favor was experience from previous battles most of which she barely escaped with her life. However she did a suburb job at distracting Sabrac and throwing him off his plan several times which allowed 2 or 3 good hits in didnt do much but allowed Yuuji to escape to the sewers. That wound is getting worse I surely hope she is not taken out but if she did go she put up one hell of a fight. This is the most iv ever seen her fight and as Skyfall said the most we have seen her fly

The Destructive Blade Sabrac himself was as fearsome as we were lead to believe. His voice was perfect and the BGM through the entire fight scene kept your attention. This is one fearsome SOB to actually hide that many swords within a flame thats like tidal wave maintain his ultimate defense and use an unrestricted spell to inflict the Stigma injury truly impressive. I also like how his techniques were definetly that of an assassin quick unpredictable, No wasted movement, and always the element of surprise. Two things that struck me with him was when he mentioned he lost a sword and he would need to get another from somewhere, where does he get his swords from what power does he use to call them forth. Second is that cloak of his. For some reason i feel like part of his defense is cloak. But as they said he really is a monster but a bad ass one at that. Everything he said he said it calmly and that just made his character even darker with that voice.

Right now its going to take all of them to bring him down. The problem everyone except Yuuji is injured. They cant retreat he will hunt them down 1 by 1 there is no where to go they have to fight the key will be using Yuuji's abilities which he doesn't seem to know anything about, Magerys unrestricted spells, Wilhelmina knowledge and speed and Shana's speed and power but again none of them are at full strength. Yuuji seems to feels something around him maybe that can be of use if they figured out what. But this is a guy that not even Pheles has been able to beat and the last time they fought Johan was sent to be pushing daises.

Great episode one of the best in a while i feel like almost everything was on point animation, BGM, Fight scenes and dialog.
9/10

Kristen

2008-03-03, 22:27

Well, that was one great battle. I loved Sabrac and all of his moves, although the lack of emotion did kind of get to me after a while. I'm not a fan of Wlhelemina's attacks/style, so I didn't like how she was the main focus...

This episode got bonus points for Kazmi's appearence. Use the hougu, become phele's flame haze, and start a new life with Yuji! Marriage awaits you if you use it! :)

Sterling01

2008-03-03, 22:30

Kristen

2008-03-03, 22:32

That's impossible as using the hougu means you die right away. You don't even get to be a tourch.

Or is it a lie crafted by Pheles to test Kazumi's will?

Oh, and this episode gets an 8. Lots of fighting, which is nice for this series, but it seemed to be lacking on plot.

KaneDragon

2008-03-03, 22:33

Kristen

2008-03-03, 22:37

Pheles wouldn't stand for being a Flame Haze sponsor. She wants to be with her lover, not stuck nobly "preserving the balance" as a FH.

Speaking of that, though, why didn't Pheles just give the hougo to Yuji, anyway? He certainly has plenty to spare, and he's got enough initial durability to cover most attacks until he activates it...

It was a good fight, but yeah, I was a little annoyed at how everyone else sat out of the fight.

Ha @ Sabrac's "errr... I finally got Yuji. Now what am I supposed to do?"

I don't know. She seemed to be against tomogara who disrupted the balance and traveled with her lover and Wilhelmina. From what the anime suggested, she could very well have a nobel cause and maybe be fighting because Johan asked her to protect the balance. Flame Haze sponser would be perfect in those regards.

S_K

2008-03-03, 22:42

this episode was full of action, its been awhile since we've seen one of these action packed episodes, overall good episode

CapoExecutor

2008-03-03, 22:45

Can Unrestricted Methods made by their creators be "borrowed for use" by others?
I see the Fuzetsu being used by so many. Perhaps Yuji or someone could mimic the Stigma and use it against Sabrac?

Master Chibi

2008-03-03, 22:58

Wow, did I just get an ENTIRE freaking episode of Carmel?

Yes I did.

Was she kicking ass?

Hell yes!

Did I get an absurd amount of close ups on her?

Damn right.

Best.

episode.

Ever.

^___________________________^

Sterling01

2008-03-03, 23:30

Or is it a lie crafted by Pheles to test Kazumi's will?

Please just give up

why didn't Pheles just give the hougo to Yuji, anyway? He certainly has plenty to spare, and he's got enough initial durability to cover most attacks until he activates it...

Because the hougu takes all of the User's POE and she woudn't want to take the chance of something happening to Johan

Can Unrestricted Methods made by their creators be "borrowed for use" by others?
I see the Fuzetsu being used by so many. Perhaps Yuji or someone could mimic the Stigma and use it against Sabrac?

All Fuzetsus are unique in some way and they aren't "borrowed for use"

_DaViD_

2008-03-03, 23:32

Omfg this episode was totally badass:

Sabrac is godly and his voice sounds badass too
Carmel is badass and with all her tricks is just awesome XD! i cant wait till 21 T_T

teelotes

2008-03-04, 00:36

It's episodes like this that I wish J.C. Staff had done a better job with the animation.

I'm quite surprised at how Wilhelmina lasted that long against Sabrac. It is definitely The Wilhelmina episode that she deserves. However, now that I've seen her powers, I'm curious as to how great a tag team she would be with Pheles and Johan. If only they had elaborated more on those flashbacks, maybe a full episode or so elaborating the trio's relationship, which would also have given Pheles more screentime.

feRfe

2008-03-04, 00:37

The battle between Sabrac and Wilhelmina makes Shana J.C. staff's best animated series imo

it's as good as J.C. staff is gonna get

There already up to Novel 14 and Novel 16 is the only one left (so far) that deals with the main storyline

That was revealed in the anime already

are u srs.. they are up to novel 14?
gah.

KholdStare

2008-03-04, 01:28

One word, wow. Episodes like these make action worthwhile.

10/10, my first ten for any series in this season for a while.

Flandre Scarlet

2008-03-04, 04:55

Sabrac is too strong･･･
I think he does some tricks to overwhelm wilhelmina.
In the next episode, will UG find them?
I am looking forward not having read Shana novels

Irenicus

2008-03-04, 05:19

I'll admit it. I never liked the maid much.

I'll also admit it though, she's freaking awesome this episode. She and Sabrac. I'm not disappointed: a finally convincingly overpowering enemy for once. Usually overpowered enemies just annoy me (zomg conspiracy the hero can't fight, zomg evil bastards, blah blah blah) but this guy is cool enough to deserve his power.

The battle between Sabrac and Wilhelmina makes Shana J.C. staff's best animated series imo
I hate to say, but consistency is a big part in considering a show's overall animation quality. Even though they go all out on this episode, Shana II have had quite the roller-coaster ride, unfortunately...

P.S. Holy crap, is it me or Master Chibi is actually happy with a Shana II episode!? :p

Cheezy

2008-03-04, 08:06

Sabrac is now officially the coolest character in the SnS series.

Great voice acting too.
It was nice seeing Wilhelmina use her techniques as well. Great episode.

Deathscyther

2008-03-04, 10:45

I loved the part where Wilhelmina flew into the small street, and Sabrac follows..and when he sees that it's a trap he' like "Damn..what a blunder.." without any emotion in his voice XD

BigGimp77

2008-03-04, 11:43

Poor Yuji, went from being a total beast to a bystander again.

I hope he chokes/breaks Sabrac's neck next episode. That would instantly put the season at a 10/10

Also: Sabrac is an awesome character. Easily the best villain in the entire series hands down.

dave55man

2008-03-04, 11:58

Great episode but I so want to see yuji become gar again. Guess I'll have to wait until the next episode.

Deathkillz

2008-03-04, 12:17

I was amused by what initially appeared to be Shana and Wilhelmina shielding themselves from the initial attack while Yuji just hung on a string screaming his head off. Well, it turned out not to be the case, but at the time...

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2623/0553yujigetstoldtostfusfg1.jpg
And someone finally tells him to stfu with the screaming. Yes, his alarm is justified, but this is amusing nonetheless. :p
Golden scene :)

Someone had to do it...thankgod someone finally did :rolleyes:

Ahh I was more than happy to rewatch this ep with the sub, it still remains as the best ep from this series so far. The GARness was just perfect (more flashback to impossible WoW bosses :)).

Sinestra

2008-03-04, 12:31

I hope he chokes/breaks Sabrac's neck next episode. That would instantly put the season at a 10/10

Im hoping to see a sword through Sabrac's face that would be golden death by your own weapon all up in your grill would be a fitting death.

KaneDragon

2008-03-04, 12:39

Im hoping to see a sword through Sabrac's face that would be golden death by your own weapon all up in your grill would be a fitting death.
Problem: Sabby doesn't seem to have a face. :p I don't think that would have much effect anyway. ;)

Undetectable, insane defense... Like a mystes with an artificially-enhanced capacity and ability to manipulate his own flame to alter his body? Yeah right. :heh: Always fights the enemy in front of him... A puppet on autopilot? Bah.

That was a little confusing, Wilhelmina saying that he could expand his power but then saying he was so focused.

Did Sabrac just call Wilhelmina "kisama"? T_T

KholdStare

2008-03-04, 12:49

I really think that I like this episode and will like the next episodes is because Yuji or Wilhelmina won't get some kind of "special power" or "new move" that will beat this hard opponent like most action series. As we can see Wilhelmina (and also Sabrac) is capable of using strategy to execute their moves, and I think that's going to decide a fight, not, "Believe it!" *goes crazy*.

Sinestra

2008-03-04, 12:55

Problem: Sabby doesn't seem to have a face. :p I don't think that would have much effect anyway. ;)

Undetectable, insane defense... Like a mystes with an artificially-enhanced capacity and ability to manipulate his own flame to alter his body? Yeah right. :heh: Always fights the enemy in front of him... A puppet on autopilot? Bah.

That was a little confusing, Wilhelmina saying that he could expand his power but then saying he was so focused.

Did Sabrac just call Wilhelmina "kisama"? T_T

I do find his abilities intriguing to be able to pump out that much POE while still be focused. His concentration on defense and offense is so unusual its like he does not sacrifice either of the two in favor of the other. He really is the ultimate assassin, i mean i like how he tries to get the job in one shot and if that fails he finds the quickest most effective way to dispatch his target with no wasted movement or effort.

Lol i know he doesn't have a face i just thought it would be ammusing. I wonder if there would be some way to leech his POE to weaken him enough for attacks to be effective or overload his own power he is pumping out quite a bit no matter how powerful a opponent is they always have a weakness and i get the feeling Yuuji is homing in on it.

And yes he did call Wilhelmina "kisama"

Kisuke06

2008-03-04, 13:09

Well, it took 20 episodes, but finally now a real villain comes out and we got a good fight.

FlareKnight

2008-03-04, 14:27

Found it interesting how Sabrac mentioned always holding some back in case of running into some unnamed opponent. Someone out there that actually makes this guy keep some in the tank just in case.

You have to give Sabrac credit in that he is damn good at his job.

Shiroth

2008-03-04, 16:43

The battle between Sabrac and Wilhelmina makes Shana J.C. staff's best animated series imo

it's as good as J.C. staff is gonna get
Some shots in the preview for episode 21 look more impressive then this. I hope it keeps up.

You have to give Sabrac credit in that he is damn good at his job.
Indeed i will, just watching him in action is good enough. Although he must have a weakness --- shame to see really.

Sabrac is now officially the coolest character in the SnS series.
Yet another person who does not understand Friagne. But yeah Sabrac is awesome, very awesome.

Okay i won't get into it. Huge Friagne fanboy here. :p

Rhyel

2008-03-04, 17:54

Wilhemina is a ninja. She use 3 or 4 ninjitsus in this episode. :D

To me Sabrac is a cheater... ;)

karinvampire

2008-03-04, 19:02

I have to say the best episode of the season I mean Wilhemina really stood out in this episode and now I really can't wait till next episode this reminded of why I watch this in the first place.

KholdStare

2008-03-04, 19:10

I have to say the best episode of the season I mean Wilhemina really stood out in this episode and now I really can't wait till next episode this reminded of why I watch this in the first place.

Yeah, until episode 14-15 or so watching SnS II seems more like an obligation (because I've finished the first season) than actually enjoying it. This fight really made it worth it.

Also, does anyone else find it funny how the master of unrestricted spells cannot take down/neutralize the effects of Stigma?

mir

2008-03-04, 19:23

I thought the episode was excellent. Creative fights, animation was top notch, and we got to see a lot more resolve and determination out of Wilhelmina than ever before. Hopefully the next episode is even better (aka needs Hecate sighting <.< ). As it stands, solid 9/10.

Aquifina

2008-03-04, 19:27

Wow. Great episode.

1. The action was obviously awesome, and Wilhemina was really allowed to shine.

2. But the ep. went beyond the action. Sabrac looks to be a great character; not only is he absurdly powerful, and has a great VA, but he seems to be a genuinely interesting character. His regret at having to kill as talented an adversary as Wilhemina, and his self criticism for not finishing her off earlier, all make him a great villain IMO.

3. Thank you, Shana, for showing some emotional awareness when she told Kazumi that Yuji had returned to his usual self. It seems that she has at least some inclination of what he wanted to say to her, before Sabrac appeared. The overdone jealousy arc with Konoe fades further into the future.

4. Aside from the one moment of screaming, Yuji does seem to be in pretty good shape. He was properly thankful of Wilhemina taking those wounds to protect him, and he's clearly using his brain to try to find a way of defeating Sabrac, as opposed to just moping in an emo funk.

There are two main questions in my mind for the rest of the season:

1. When will Hecate and the rest of Bal Maque make their re-appearance. That scene where Hecate interacts with the dove at the end of an ep is no coincidence in my view; there *must* IMO be some kind of lingering effect of the Konoe arc. At least, I hope there will be, in order to help justify the overly drawn out jealousy business that marred that section of the season.

2. Will Shana properly confess to Yuji by the end of the season? I have to think she will--there are two many eps left in the season to not do it, when she was so ready to do so at the festival, but how will it occur? And what effects will it have?

3. Will Pheles return this season? Considering how much they've focused on Kazumi's hougu, it seems likely, but who knows?

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-04, 21:38

Also, does anyone else find it funny how the master of unrestricted spells cannot take down/neutralize the effects of Stigma?

Not really. It simply goes to show how unique and deadly Stigma is. Considering what Margery said, it is also the first time she has to deal with something like this.

Episode 20 thoughts:
I don't know where to start...The action? Wilhelmina? Sabrac? :heh:

-Actually, I didn't think the scream was that bad, especially when Yuji finally saw the monstrosity that was Sabrac for what he is. After what I've seen so far, what I don't want is a sudden calm and powering up for Yuji, because that would be too shounen-ish in nature. Even Wilhelmina stopped him from doing something foolish.

-Speaking of which, Wilhelmina really shone here, because previously all we've seen her is try to kill Yuji, getting beaten up by Bal-Peol (that was justifiable, though), restraining Pheles and constantly battling the mysteries of how to cook a good meal. :heh: Being able to see one of the Flame Hazes NOT taking the upper hand is interesting, and that actually allows us to see Wilhelmina using her capabilities to the max. Although it's a given she will lose eventually, one can't help but cheer for her due to her tenacity and her ingenuity in using the landscape and delaying tactics to try to beat Sabrac.

The way she used the two buildings to try to crush Sabrac reminded me of the superheroes shown in Marvel or DC. Whatever that's around can and must be used. :heh:

-Sabrac. Is .Awesome. Kudos to J.C Animation for getting Takaya Kuroda for the role, since his voicing of Sabrac was pretty fitting for an assassin. Interestingly, Sabrac actually has some typical interests of an extremely strong character, like feeling pity at needing to kill off someone as skillful as Wilhelmina, attributing his 'failures' to his own bad habits by admitting them and calmly pondering about the consequences of the battle (wondering how many swords he will lose in the battle this time). Another one would be the fact that he uses others to help fulfil his purposes, so much so that he might not even have to lift a finger to finish the job. Makes me wonder whether the signal for him to enter was the large proportion of POE Bifrons fired, or the death of Zarovee and him.:twitch:

One unfortunate thing about the episode with him was that despite his monstrous capabilities, the stating of the purpose of Zarovee and Bifrons might actually put him into the category of being a stereotypical villain who 'thinks nothing of the opponent or seeing as they are about to die, decides to humor their questions with a direct answer.' That is just one point of view though, and I'd prefer not to look too much into that.

-Where's the answer, Keisaku? Although we might be hearing that from him in the next episode, I wouldn't blame him if he can find no answer currently. His sole purpose to enter the world of the Guze and experience its dangers was because of Margery, the person who brought him in in the first place.

-Some Shana/Kazumi bonding, though overshadowed by the ongoing battle between Wilhelmina and Sabrac. Nothing much except for Shana's reassurances and the fact that since the two girls haven't really seen and experienced the terror of the Destructive Blade, they can still smile.

-When did Yuji get away, and how?:twitch: I get the feeling it was when we stopped hearing Yuji talk (or make some kind of noise) at one point in time that she switched him with a bandage clone, though.

You know what rating this is going to get from me. :)

KaneDragon

2008-03-04, 21:43

Sabrac seems awfully extravagant with his PoE, especially for one called an assassin. Burnin' power like there's no tomorrow... Power overwhelming, I suppose.

FlareKnight

2008-03-04, 22:01

Also, does anyone else find it funny how the master of unrestricted spells cannot take down/neutralize the effects of Stigma?Yeah it just shows the power of Sabrac's unrestricted spell. If even Margery can't do a thing about it. But guess it wouldn't be so useful it could be countered easily.

I don't think it was a big thing for Sabrac to give Carmel a direct answer. Since she is an opponent he has a past with and respect for.

Think Yuji stepped out when Carmel used that trap. She could fly through the alley, drop Yuji off, and set up the trap. Since when she pulled that move Yuji was conveniently not around. Of course to be sure we'd have to ask her personally, but right now she's pretty busy.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-04, 22:03

Sabrac seems awfully extravagant with his PoE, especially for one called an assassin. Burnin' power like there's no tomorrow... Power overwhelming, I suppose.

He's an 'assassin' because of how he's able to sneak up to opponents without them noticing. Note how Wilhelmina perceived his fighting style as: Dealing a good load of damage and killing his opponent off before he/she is able to gather him/herself. I'm pretty sure it was actually the fact that he had to face Wilhelmina that dragged on the battle, and we were able to see him extravagantly 'wasting' his POE.

Anyway, he's got loads of it, so as long as he's in control, I don't think he really cares.

Irenicus

2008-03-04, 22:21

Yet another person who does not understand Friagne. But yeah Sabrac is awesome, very awesome.

Okay i won't get into it. Huge Friagne fanboy here. :p
Loooong flashback, but I still remember how I was so surprised when Friagne got snuffed. I thought he was going to be the series' main villain and stuff (ala Inuyasha's Naraku). That was amusing.

Also, I heartily approve of your sentiment. Aside from Sabrac, Friagne is like, the only convincing villain in the entire series. Everyone else either fits the category of "what the **** is that?" or "member of Conspiratorial Organization X."

Sterling01

2008-03-04, 23:06

Also, I heartily approve of your sentiment. Aside from Sabrac, Friagne is like, the only convincing villain in the entire series. Everyone else either fits the category of "what the **** is that?" or "member of Conspiratorial Organization X."

What about the Incest Twins and their giant plant tentacle thing?

Guido

2008-03-04, 23:08

I hope Sabrac doesn't go down in the next episode, as that would be lame.

He's a king of Guze out of any dimension he has ever crept in the Shana-verse.

I definitely went gung-ho with the explosive fight that went between him and Wilhelmina.
The staff for this season made Wilhelmina to go out at full power, and she deserves praise and commendation for her battle prowess and cognitive skills.

Though I have the sensation that Sabrac shares a similar thorough mindset as that of Wilhelmina.

Sabrac has become my favorite villain in all of the Shana-verse. He possess a reserved personality and his own flaws when it comes at getting distracted with the realization of his own mistakes.

But the best are his repertoire of special attacks and abilities.

The rarity among the kings of Guze whose presence cannot be detected even by Flame Hazes.

His burst attack that covers a wide area enclosed within his Fuzetsu to engage in a lightning, surprise attack to catch his foes off guards.

Further offsetting his enemies' strength when casting the Unrestricted Spell, Stigma, which continues to add up the damage of the wounds received after caught by his surprise attack.

A seemingly infinite amount of swords he has to spare.

An insane defense, which likely revolves around the manipulation of his absurdly huge, rose mad flame.

Sabrac is from another dimension.

But I'm getting a worried about how fast this second season is reaching the end. This is turning the same as with the last arc from the previous season.

Will the staff be able to nicely wrap things, at least as the fight with Sabrac is concerned?
Because nothing hasn't been resolved yet about the Reiji Maigo, Pheles & Johan, the Silver, the Bal Masque, Yoshida's resolve, and for Shana and Yuuji.

Irenicus

2008-03-04, 23:13

What about the Incest Twins and their giant plant tentacle thing?
That would go in the category of "what the **** is that" because they are, well, plain stupid. Probably among the worst and cheesiest of the lot.

serenade_beta

2008-03-05, 01:29

That would go in the category of "what the **** is that" because they are, well, plain stupid. Probably among the worst and cheesiest of the lot.

They were pretty stupid, but I would have liked it if they stayed around longer. I actually like the twins. :)

Anh_Minh

2008-03-05, 01:34

Hee. Giga Drill Breaker de arimasu!

tntrulez

2008-03-05, 01:52

Yuji is such a wimp. Can't even smack on the girls. Go die soon Yuji.

Now Sabrac, they could have made the anime about him and it would have been awesome.

I wonder what he's trying to gain by going around assassinating people. I bet it's just to test himself. That would be an awesome reason.

OverFunk

2008-03-05, 05:20

I hope that Sabrac isn't defeated by the end of 21...

The fight is totally awesome...Sabrac and his pew pews, it's like watching a game of touhou being animated :heh:
Heh, so I wan't the only one who thought that. Wilhelmina = Meido = Sakuya. So moar grazing.
Yuji is such a wimp. Can't even smack on the girls. Go die soon Yuji.

Now Sabrac, they could have made the anime about him and it would have been awesome.
OH LAWD.

Tokkan

2008-03-05, 05:23

I hope that Sabrac isn't defeated by the end of 21...

Oh god no. You don't know how much I hate fights that stretch more than 2 episodes. It's just pointless and leaves little room for progression. It's bad enough that this fight already spans an entire episodes and bleeds into the next.

Anyone who wants a fight that spans 3 episodes and hated the Konoe arc is a hypocrite. They're both the same thing, very little progression and needless dragging.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-05, 08:18

Oh god no. You don't know how much I hate fights that stretch more than 2 episodes. It's just pointless and leaves little room for progression. It's bad enough that this fight already spans an entire episodes and bleeds into the next.

Anyone who wants a fight that spans 3 episodes and hated the Konoe arc is a hypocrite. They're both the same thing, very little progression and needless dragging.

'Getting defeated in episode 21' and 'getting defeated in a fight that drags on till episode 21' is a little different, actually. I think OverFunk was referring to the villanous lifespan of Sabrac in the anime season by itself.

christinemarie

2008-03-05, 14:35

This is the best episode ever in SnS (season 1 and season 2 combined)
BTW, Gainax helped out J.C. Staff in this epic episode.

I love Sabrac. Most awesome villain in an anime this year.

Proto

2008-03-05, 16:29

Anh_Minh

2008-03-05, 16:42

Yeah. So far, Sabbrac is boring. Too invulnerable and talkative.

That's not to say that watching Wilhelmina fight him isn't entertaining. But Sabbrac himself? Meh.

KaneDragon

2008-03-05, 18:08

I like the talkative part. It gives him a sort of charm. :)

Kisuke06

2008-03-05, 19:06

I think the problem is that you guys are taking opinions too fast. We have seen Sabbrac basically just in this episode, and some are saying he is the best villain and some don't like him. At least that is my opinion.

Well, I just hope he survives and appears on more episodes, I want to see more of him.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-05, 21:09

Hmm... I guess I'll have to be the odd ball on not finding Sabrac awesome. He relies on his infinite lives hack way too much, he commited way too many blunders IMHO (I mean, he died 3-4 times already), he relies more on spam attacks rather than accuracy, and gets a little too related with his victim to be an assasin. I mean, he's cool and all, but I found Friagne or Metamorphosis to be much more calculating and precise into what they did.

Yeah. So far, Sabbrac is boring. Too invulnerable and talkative.

That's not to say that watching Wilhelmina fight him isn't entertaining. But Sabbrac himself? Meh.

I think the problem is that you guys are taking opinions too fast. We have seen Sabbrac basically just in this episode, and some are saying he is the best villain and some don't like him. At least that is my opinion.

Well, I just hope he survives and appears on more episodes, I want to see more of him.

I just realised something; Comparing all the previous villains in the season itself that had met up with the Flame Haze gang, NONE of them actually survived (except for Pheles, if you count her as a villain, that is) and most importantly, they didn't even make a real impact on the show aside from Zarovee and Bifrons, who served to bring an even greater villain in (well, technically Zarovee did act as a foil for Yuji to realise that he was lying to himself all the time, but that's about it).

After complaints regarding the earlier episodes of being horrifyingly slow and Konoe-laden with what people consider 'little relation to the entire plot', it isn't all that surprising that when someone comes along to give us a good piece of action, some of us will go a little overboard with the praise or simply consider a 'boring' villain to be the best.

How long has Wilhelmina lived as a Flame Haze? Perhaps at least a thousand years? I'm inclined to believe that Sabrac has a longer lifespan than her, and when your job gets a little too easy it tends to get boring somewhere along those millenia-odd years.

Ahn_Minh might be right in saying Sabrac is too boring; No backstory is what I find boring, though, since it's even more boring watching the Flame Hazes destroy their opponents with relative ease. In a way, I find watching a struggling Wilhelmina trying to a find a way to beat an opponent she was unable to ever since they met interesting.

tntrulez

2008-03-05, 21:27

X207

2008-03-05, 21:40

so wats with the silver flamed guy, i thought he was named sabrac instead of this assasin?

KaneDragon

2008-03-05, 21:45

so wats with the silver flamed guy, i thought he was named sabrac instead of this assasin?
The silver-flamed guy is called "Silver". He's the suit of armor dude that tried to bust out of Yuji's stomach for whatever reason. He's been talked about in the series since Margery's appearance in season one. :rolleyes:

Liddo-kun

2008-03-05, 21:46

Episode 20 is the best episode in the series in terms of action so far.
Zabrac is powerful, totally overwhelming and with an interesting personality too. I wonder how'd they defeat someone that strong?

I'm fairly impressed at Wilhelmina as well for standing up to Zabrac, although it seems she has almost no chance alone.
Maybe on 21 they'd all fight Sabrac and they'd manage to win somehow.

KaneDragon

2008-03-05, 21:52

Episode 20 is the best episode in the series in terms of action so far.
Zabrac is powerful, totally overwhelming and with an interesting personality too. I wonder how'd they defeat someone that strong?
Attack his weakpoint for Massive Damage. :D And/or disable whatever gimmick allows him to seemingly keep coming back (doppelganger generator? :p), assuming it isn't as simple as "he's just that good". :heh:

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-05, 22:56

Anyone wonder why the villians in Shana let your opponents talk so much and give chance after chance to the enemy? (Well not just Shana, really almost all Anime).

It annoys me a lot to sit there and think how stupid these villians are. What kind of assassin takes 25+ minutes to kill an opponent?

Anyone know of an Anime where the Villians are truely evil and smart? But then I guess the story would end. I would just like to see an Anime reflecting how it would turn out in real life where the enemy really goes for the kill at the first opening.

Plenty of shows are like that. Bond movies, in particular, where the villain harps on about his plan to destroy the world via some giant laser or crashing a meteor into the Earth to establish a new world order or...Whatever, you get the point.

I'm pretty sure it will be quite entertaining if, let's say, Sabrac, Syndonay or even Bel-Peol doesn't say a single word, charges in wordlessly and fights a battle with our heroes. I mean, hey, it isn't interesting if villains actually have some personalities, right? :p

I'm not trying to putting you down, seirously, but through dialogue and conversation for the characters in a story, you can ascertain what kind of personality the character has and how he reacts in different situations. No dialogue, no interaction and all we have is action, action and action. Where's the depth of character?

Obviously, Sabrac would be viewed as more professional if he just ignored Wilhelmina's questions and went in for the kill, but this is entertainment and bits of information for the audiences, else certain viewers who might feel as though Sabrac's appearance was totally random would consider it a big plot hole.

Fenrir_valindri

2008-03-05, 23:00

This episode was incredibly awesome, the action was top-notch and I almost pulled a Darth Vader when the episode ended.

Sabrac is awesome, gotta love a villain with style, Wilhelmina sure is awesome as well, definitely nice to see her pull out such awesome moves.

Proto

2008-03-06, 01:35

Comparing all the previous villains in the season itself that had met up with the Flame Haze gang, NONE of them actually survived (except for Pheles, if you count her as a villain, that is) and most importantly, they didn't even make a real impact on the show aside from Zarovee and Bifrons, who served to bring an even greater villain in (well, technically Zarovee did act as a foil for Yuji to realise that he was lying to himself all the time, but that's about it).

Hecate's and Fecor's lawyers will subpoena you for defamation and minimizing their client's merits though :p

Tokkan

2008-03-06, 02:29

The silver-flamed guy is called "Silver". He's the suit of armor dude that tried to bust out of Yuji's stomach for whatever reason. He's been talked about in the series since Margery's appearance in season one. :rolleyes:

Actually, the silver-flamed guy has no name, people just call him "the Silver" in place of his complete anonymity.

I don't find Sabrac boring, he's fine. The fight lasting more than this episode after taking up almost its entirety just bothers me.

Kiyoru

2008-03-06, 05:19

I thought this episode was excellent. The fights with Carmel and Sabrac were awesome, and the stigma thingy makes things really interesting.

Does anyone know how many episodes there's gonna be in S2? Or is it 24 like S1?

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-06, 05:23

Hecate's and Fecor's lawyers will subpoena you for defamation and minimizing their client's merits though :p

My bad. Forgot about them. :p Then again, I didn't really bother about them because they are here to stay IMO, at least until the Flame Hazes take them all out somehow.

@ Kiyoru: It's 24 episodes.

Klashikari

2008-03-06, 09:09

Hmm... I guess I'll have to be the odd ball on not finding Sabrac awesome. He relies on his infinite lives hack way too much, he commited way too many blunders IMHO (I mean, he died 3-4 times already), he relies more on spam attacks rather than accuracy, and gets a little too related with his victim to be an assasin. I mean, he's cool and all, but I found Friagne or Metamorphosis to be much more calculating and precise into what they did.

You aren't the odd ball. Certainly, I felt that episode mediocre to core.

First, the power level was incredibly off. Wilhelmina had like an incredible stamina despite the wounds and Stigma applied, plus the fact she has to keep defense and levitation on both herself and Yuuji (that said, since when Wilhelmina could have such float power for so long?).
Wilhelmina hardly changed/trained much from the start. Despite this, she is like two times or even thrice as "powerful/combative" than in season one.

Second, is like you said, Sabrac is hardly an assassin. He is basically a spammer which is more like a diversion than anything else.
For my taste however, it is even worse when Sabrac is so talkative and extremely laid back. FFS, I don't get why he indulge himself in such ridiculous and meaningless talk, but also such passive stance during the "chases" (no seriously, surfing on his flame was the most ridiculous scenes ever in this episode).

While wilhelmina was commendable on her tenacity, it is moot when her opponent is such a slowpoke tank like he is.

Finally, the animation of this episode was truely back on season 1: tons of still shot, recycled animation, giant flame to mask blunders etc.
This episode was hardly thrilling and it was even worse with stupid tidbits like Shana and Kazumi chit chatting in such situation (i would have expected alastor scolding her hard, but nope), etc.

In term of "awesomeness", Belpeol and Sydonay are way much better in term of adrenaline. And Friagne is largely more sly and prepared than sabrac. Heck, I even felt Friagne "passive" stance in season one (not the movie though) much more convincing than sabrac all together.

A mediocre episode earning a 4 in my books.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-06, 10:21

First, the power level was incredibly off. Wilhelmina had like an incredible stamina despite the wounds and Stigma applied, plus the fact she has to keep defense and levitation on both herself and Yuuji (that said, since when Wilhelmina could have such float power for so long?).
Wilhelmina hardly changed/trained much from the start. Despite this, she is like two times or even thrice as "powerful/combative" than in season one.

That's debatable. If Wilhelmina is as strong as she's suppose to be, her "float power" should be as long, if not more than Margery or Shana. How is she supposedly twice or thrice as powerful in Season 1? While fighting Bel-Peol? While trying to kill Yuji? In either case she wasn't able to use her power to its fullest extent (the former being that she had been given a handicap, while the latter was the fact that Yuji was practically defenseless at that time, while Shana had been in the way most of the time whenever she could).

I wouldn't ignore the possibility that this episode might actually be meant as an excuse for her to take the spotlight in action scenes, though. When it comes to nitpicking for detail and consistency, it would admittingly feel a little contrived with the way they fought (Makes me wonder how she dished it out with Sabrac in the novels, and if it was truly so explosive and grand as that).

For my taste however, it is even worse when Sabrac is so talkative and extremely laid back. FFS, I don't get why he indulge himself in such ridiculous and meaningless talk, but also such passive stance during the "chases" (no seriously, surfing on his flame was the most ridiculous scenes ever in this episode).

I get the impression he was toying with them and might actually be waiting for the Stigma to slowly take greater effect before he can slay his targets as and when he likes it. The next episode is welcomed to prove me wrong, though.