Spice and Wolf - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Spice and Wolf, Episode 10.

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Episode 10 will be broadcasted this 5th march at 1:30 AM (Japan Time Zone),
which means this 4th march at 4:30PM (GMT 00).

[serenade_beta]

Expectations:

-Of course, an explanation of sorts for Nora.
-Something revealed about Mr. AHAHAHAHAISOUNDEVIL
-Armor selling

[Ice Climbers]

Expectations:

-Of course, an explanation of sorts for Nora.
-Something revealed about Mr. AHAHAHAHAISOUNDEVIL
-Armor selling

Third should come with a twist :heh:

[Tri-ring]

Expectations:

-Of course, an explanation of sorts for Nora.
-Something revealed about Mr. AHAHAHAHAISOUNDEVIL
-Armor selling

Well we already know that bunch of mercenaries are roaming on the new road looting anybody that passes by. So we just need to figure out why are they looting?
Lawrence said himself that at the present town, selling armor was common meaning there must be alot of mercenaries gathering to this town which leads to speculate that there would be a place to provide their service(battle field) or place that introduces an employer. Meaning mercenaries don't need to rob other people near this town. So why are the mercenaries looting?
And If my sepculation is right, what would happen to the armor and Lawrence who bought it with credit?

[deffusse]

Need to know more about her [Nora] anything anything.....:thinker::) ... will be fine

[Masanori Ota]

Raw is out.

[LKK]

Initial thoughts. Things are not going well for Lawrence in regards to whatever business he's trying to conduct. Every merchant in town turned against him. He's been blackballed. His increasing frustration as he tried again and again was hard to watch. And when his frustration overflowed onto Horo, it was hurtful to watch. :upset: What I want to know though is why didn't he go after her at the end? He knew he'd done wrong. Why, oh why, didn't he go after her and apologize?? :sad:

[Deathkillz]

Things doesn't look good for lawrence...hell sure I didn't catch the reason why he is being rejected a deal but it's the fact that he is being rejected that even I can see...the poor dude took his anger out on poor horo aswell...someone is working in the shadows to put him out of business -___-

No mention of nora O.o

[FlareKnight]

Damn this situation has gotten pretty bad. Agree that I don't have much of an idea why he has been shut down like this. Though its pretty ugly that no matter where he goes its no good. The whole getting water thrown at him was just going over the line.

Got to go back and watch the start of the episode that had some good moments. Horo once again gets Lawrence going. That girl is just great :).

But damn the end was pretty rough. Lawrence is frustrated to the limit and takes it out on Horo. She's just been supportive and standing by him through this difficult period. I can understand getting that upset with things and sadly the people you care about are the first to get lashed out at. Still...poor Horo:sad:

Hopefully they find a way to overcome this.

[monir]

Initial thoughts. Things are not going well for Lawrence in regards to whatever business he's trying to conduct. Every merchant in town turned against him. He's been blackballed. His increasing frustration as he tried again and again was hard to watch. And when his frustration overflowed onto Horo, it was hurtful to watch. :upset: What I want to know though is why didn't he go after her at the end? He knew he'd done wrong. Why, oh why, didn't he go after her and apologize?? :sad:
:heh::heh::D

Oh my gosh! Seriously girl, I'll catch up to this series just because of this post because I want to watch episode 10 so badly.

[serenade_beta]

-Horo barked and scared away a dog while she waited for Lawrence... :heh:

-Hoh~, the Church doesn't seem to think well of the fact that Nora seems to be the only one to stay safe while walking along that road to that city...

-"Well, fairy Nora seems to be the type of girl you like" <--fair-accurate translation
:uhoh: Lawrence... Don't tell me... You... :twitch:
:heh:
Lawrence gets defensive over Horo's teasing. :heh:
What followed truly was funny.
Lawrence=Lolicon? Likes blond hair? Likes shepherds? :heh::heh: Do tell, Lawrence!

-Crap... Lawrence's little play-around with that guy in the "Correct Scales" episode turned around and hit him hard... into debt...
And none of the people he knows would give or help him at all... And he gets more strained and stressed out, and then one of the people he was talking to made him realize that bringing Horo around was having a pretty negative effect...
And more stress and he snapped at Horo... :(
Oh boy...


One mention of Nora, and that was it...


Preview: Wolf and Greatest Secret Plan; a comeback?

[metronome]

whatever happens, you shouldn't lashed on someone that could actually have the "cheat code" to help you when you really do not have a way out:D.

but ya I know it is common that usually the one that's closest to you gets snapped first when you are frustated~~

[Tri-ring]

As you may remember, in episode 9 Lawrence bought armor from Latepria tradings through credit and was planning to sell those armors to Mebiryo tradings. The credit will be handled between the two traders and Lawrence planned on gainning commision transporting the goods, but it turns out that the armor market had dropped. To make things worse Latepria trading had sold the credit to Mebiryo. So Lawrence now is in debt to Mebiryo who had just lost a fortune in the Armor market and will have no mercy in stripping Lawrence.
Lawrence has two days to come up with the money or the commerce union he is inlisted will pay up the debt and send Lawrence to the mines to payup his losses. Lawrence is now walking all around town to ask for a loan but is turned down at every doorstep and is told he is unsincere having a female(Horo) tag along with him in asking for a debt.

By the way, I liked how Horo importuned Lawrence in Oiran Kotoba, the interaction was just like an Oiran cajole her guest for gifts.

[FlareKnight]

As you may remember, in episode 9 Lawrence bought armor from Latepria tradings through credit and was planning to sell those armors to Mebiryo tradings. The credit will be handled between the two traders and Lawrence planned on gainning commision transporting the goods, but it turns out that the armor market had dropped. To make things worse Latepria trading had sold the credit to Mebiryo. So Lawrence now is in debt to Mebiryo who had just lost a fortune in the Armor market and will have no mercy in stripping Lawrence.
Lawrence has two days to come up with the money or the commerce union he is inlisted will pay up the debt and send Lawrence to the mines to payup his losses. Lawrence is now walking all around town to ask for a loan but is turned down at every doorstep and is told he is insincere having a female(Horo) tag along with him in asking for a debt.

By the way, I liked how Horo importuned Lawrence in Oiran Kotoba, the interaction was just like an Oiran cajole her guest for gifts.Damn so that's what the sitaution is. Lawrence is in a worse spot than I had imagined. Had thought it was likely the armor market had some problems. Probably because armor is supposed to be a sure thing its Lawrence's luck that this would happen.

No wonder he is freaking out if it means ending up in the mines if he can't get the money together. Oh boy, Horo has her hands full (after Lawrence gets back in her good graces) in order to save the day here. Though she is more skilled getting into debt than out of it :heh:.

Not a lot of time here.

[Souten no Seigyoku]

Its possible its Chloe and company. They havent necessarily given up on the deal with the coins. You dont just give up on a ton of money like that. it can also be done to set an example (i.e. this is what happens to those that interfere with us) as a deterent to those who would meddle in their future dealings.

[serenade_beta]

Wolf and Greatest Secret Plan

Lawrence, who had ended up in enormous debt, tried relying on his connections as a way to earn money, but he makes no progress at all.
As the deadline for repayment gets closer, Lawrence to their lodging in a state of half-desperation when Horo brings up a certain secret plan.
It was a gamble that involved great dangers, where the absolute condition was to get Lemerio Company's agreement for funds cooperation...

Still no Nora... :eyebrow:
Isn't Horo nice... Be grateful, L.L. (Lolicon Lawrence)


The poll is still closed?

[Vexx]

I'm already lamenting the end of this series..... so few episodes left.... (sigh).

[FlareKnight]

Had just about forgotten the series was almost over. Its just sad no matter how you look at it. Hopefully gets a second season eventually so we can return to the good times.

[Guppy]

One thing about Lawrence's snapping at Horo, though... if I'm not mistaken, he didn't intend to take her with him in the first place, because bringing a woman would have a particular meaning. Even after he explained that, though, Horo didn't take it well and insisted on coming (with some foot-stomping thrown in), to which he eventually agreed.

That doesn't excuse him dumping all his frustrations on Horo, of course, but it's a little more understandable given that she more or less forced him to include her.

[XoBr0k3nxAng3LoX]

um...one question:

what exactly did Lawrence say to Horo when he snapped that got her so upset? o.o [ i know it has something to do with her being a girl and stuff but i dont really know because i've only read the summaries and havnt watched it yet]

[serenade_beta]

um...one question:

what exactly did Lawrence say to Horo when he snapped that got her so upset? o.o [ i know it has something to do with her being a girl and stuff but i dont really know because i've only read the summaries and havnt watched it yet]

You mean at the end when he slaps away her hand when she came running towards him?

Then:
"If not for you..."

[XoBr0k3nxAng3LoX]

You mean at the end when he slaps away her hand when she came running towards him?

Then:
"If not for you..."
OOO, thanks! C=

[Hypernova]

I don't get the having-women-tag-with-you-bit.

[Vexx]

Basically, he's supposed to be at the end of his rope financially ... yet he has this fabulous young lady with him.
Now... money lenders will think either he's not really that desperate --- or worse, he may be presenting the picture that he's willing to pimp his "wife" out for money. Not a good thing for people to think in that time period.

Doesn't look good and finally one merchant chided him for it.

[Hypernova]

I suppose then he would have done much better by rolling on the ground and look scruffy then, perhaps add a few cuts to his shirt.

[Souten no Seigyoku]

I still think hes beling blackballed. They gave us a sort of merchant 'ethos' where merchants dont do anything if there's no profit in it. So they figured Chloe & Co wouldnt do anything once they lost, but thats not necessarily true. We are talking about a lot of money here. He basically screwed them over big time. I think theyre out for payback and I believe there is profiit in it.

The current message is: You can shaft us if you can outsmart us.
The message they'd like to send: Best not trifle with us because you wont just 'walk away' no matter how clever you are.

[arkxkra]

the situation was bad for Lawrence, almost bankrupt(so far at least). The thing Im not happy is he snapped at Horo, I know at the situation like that,who also will so frustrated but .... poor Horo :(.

next episode, should be horo save the day again?

[FlareKnight]

Just an ugly situation. Would be against who Horo is to just sit around while Lawrence is trying to find a way out. Besides if she's there it'll be easier for her to come up with some kind of solution. Sadly the side effect is what we see in her presence being misinterpreted. If this wasn't such a serious moment. I'd say those guys better not be surprised if their shops for some strange reason are destroyed :heh:.

Need to find a way out of this somehow. Is entirely possible someone is targeting Lawrence. Be it in relation to the business done back with the coins or someone else he's gotten mad along the way.

[Souten no Seigyoku]

Well he hasnt really gotten anyone mad along the way. The progression has been coins-- quick stop for armor--- This town. The ominous guy looking for him in the previous episode smells of Chloe & Co. Unless that guy he snuckered is so powerful that he can get him blackballed. Unlikely or he wouldnt have been snuckered and/or Lawrence wouldve known about him.

This smells too much of retaliation for the massive loss the Chloe people suffered.

[FlareKnight]

Well in terms of along the way I mean before he ran into Horo. Lawrence does have a past afterall and we haven't gotten too much of it.

Is possible to be connected to what happened with Chloe. But until we get some specifics can't be sure one way or the other.

[HayashiTakara]

Kimikiss and Spce + Wolf at the same time! what a wonderful day today

[golthin]

Basically, he's supposed to be at the end of his rope financially ... yet he has this fabulous young lady with him.
Now... money lenders will think either he's not really that desperate --- or worse, he may be presenting the picture that he's willing to pimp his "wife" out for money. Not a good thing for people to think in that time period.

Doesn't look good and finally one merchant chided him for it.

that is why he wanted Horo to go back to the Inn! The reason he was refused was because of Horo! Horo doesn't understand the way things are and her pride got Lawrence in trouble!

[HayashiTakara]

I have to say, this is the best episode so far. Great interactions between Lawrence and Horo.

[Vexx]

Those of you torrenting... be aware that Ayako has a ep-10v2 version (so you might want to drop the original ep10 torrent)

Really liking the large format of Ayako (despite the MB crush).

[Zarifus]

:o I wonder what flocks of wolves outside city doors tearing at anyone who took a step outside would do to armor prices... But then again, could they manage to do that?

[Seyluun]

Looks like Ayako screwed up the last line of Lawrence... they translated it as "Even you're..." but "If not for you..." make a lot more sens.

[ItsTrue]

Um, I really can't be too angry at Lawrence for snapping twice. The consequences are too dire (working in mine for 10 years? That basically means death) and at least he apologized each time. I actually think that he's taking it pretty well for a human being. I mean, everyone does have his/her bad days...

Haha, when I first saw the title of the next episode, I thought that the "greatest scheme" referred to the one that has set Lawrence up in this situation... But apparently not.

Though I have to say, I think that other than Horo, the guild master might actually help in the next episodes, since he already hinted in the "loopholes" and that at the beginning of the episode, he did mention that Lawrence should be able to get through this tough situation.

[redfire389]

wow, Lawrence has it though this time, if he doesn't get the money he will be living as a slave or will die, and poor Horo :( I wonder how are they gonna fix this, I don't want a sad end for the anime :(

[cicero]

A good episode...

I'm the kind of person who has great difficulty finishing depressing scenes, especially if I know about them beforehand, so after I accidentally spoiled myself on this episode, it took me something like an hour to actually watch it :heh:

So it seems the sketchy merchant in the previous city wins after all (well so far anyway...). It's not really possible to blame either Lawrence or Horo...they got overconfident; Lawrence should have sought some info on local conditions first, since it was there (laughing guy knew about it, it seems...), and then he took a steep risk. One wonders if Horo's constant demand for food and beer is taking enough of a toll to make Lawrence seek greater profits...She certainly didn't help by insisting on going with him, though I don't think Lawrence realized it would be that big of an issue either. The blackballing is suspicious nonetheless...

[creamyhorror]

Looks like Ayako screwed up the last line of Lawrence... they translated it as "Even you're..." but "If not for you..." make a lot more sens.

The last line is お前さえーー, which means something like "You, at least, ..." or "Even you are [getting in the way, pissing me off, etc.]". Interpreting it as "If not for you..." seems like a bit of a stretch, but maybe someone can correct me.

[Grizzlybar]

This is why you diversify your investments.

[Vexx]

There's a v2 of ep 10 out from Ayako... I've not downloaded it yet but someone might check to see if they adjusted that line (among others).

[FlareKnight]

From what I saw on the IRC channel. The v2 was just about the audio, the original was mono and they adjusted it to stereo.

Big thing here is, how the heck are they going to get out of this one? They got completely had. Guy probably set up that trick. Just waiting for merchants who thought they were clever to catch it and then spring the trap on them.

But have to love Horo. Pulling that big ploy just so he'd promise to get her the honey-pickled peaches. Guess for good food Horo will go the extra mile.

[Tri-ring]

The last line is お前さえーー, which means something like "You, at least, ..." or "Even you are [getting in the way, pissing me off, etc.]". Interpreting it as "If not for you..." seems like a bit of a stretch, but maybe someone can correct me.

I think the お前さえ　if not swollowed would probably had been followed by, 居なければ meaning "not here" so if the two parts tied the sentence would translate to "If you were not here with me" so the "If not for you...." isn't that far of a stretch.:cool:

[Tri-ring]

From what I saw on the IRC channel. The v2 was just about the audio, the original was mono and they adjusted it to stereo.

Big thing here is, how the heck are they going to get out of this one? They got completely had. Guy probably set up that trick. Just waiting for merchants who thought they were clever to catch it and then spring the trap on them.


Although I have not read the novel here are my speculations.

If you think about it, Mebiryo tradings the one whom Lawrence owes debt to is in the same situation with Lawrence not being able to sell off their armor. Now if somehow Lawrence was able to come up with a plot to sell all of the armor at high price then everybody would be happy. Further speculation is about a conversation with Nora tha she can lead through a route to another town that not even soldiers dare set foot in.
I wonder what the armor market is at that town?

[maymay]

Lawrence has been hung out to dry, just goes to show how fast the market can swing in a free economy. It was kinda hard to watch poor old Lawrence getting rejected repeatedly, especially the last one which was just because he was with Horo.

[FlareKnight]

Although I have not read the novel here are my speculations.

If you think about it, Mebiryo tradings the one whom Lawrence owes debt to is in the same situation with Lawrence not being able to sell off their armor. Now if somehow Lawrence was able to come up with a plot to sell all of the armor at high price then everybody would be happy. Further speculation is about a conversation with Nora tha she can lead through a route to another town that even soldiers dare set foot in.
I wonder what the armor market is at that town?May have a good idea there. If Lawrence can bring them a proposal that could net them much larger profit than just the 47 gold coins he owes he might have a chance. Since they spent one day going around the city. With only one day left to get them the money have to try something a bit crazy.

Near the end of the episode it was an unfortunate thing. Horo didn't want to stay behind since she thought it would give the impression that she was the type to just sit and relax while her partner was in trouble. Sadly her presence gave a different impression and so you have a bad situation at the end of the episode.

No matter what its clear Lawrence isn't going to end up in mines or on some ship. Horo will bust him out of that city and carry him to the forests of the North if she has to first. Continuing his career as a merchant is the optimal situation, but Horo will do what she has to.

[Masanori Ota]

May have a good idea there. If Lawrence can bring them a proposal that could net them much larger profit than just the 47 gold coins he owes he might have a chance. Since they spent one day going around the city. With only one day left to get them the money have to try something a bit crazy.

Near the end of the episode it was an unfortunate thing. Horo didn't want to stay behind since she thought it would give the impression that she was the type to just sit and relax while her partner was in trouble. Sadly her presence gave a different impression and so you have a bad situation at the end of the episode.

No matter what its clear Lawrence isn't going to end up in mines or on some ship. Horo will bust him out of that city and carry him to the forests of the North if she has to first. Continuing his career as a merchant is the optimal situation, but Horo will do what she has to.
Of course. But that's not what happens.

Remember those mercenaries that Lawrence avoided by taking a different route? I bet they want some armor. ;)

And no, I haven't read the novels either. So it's not spoilers because I'm not sure that that happens.

[FlareKnight]

Yeah nothing wrong with trying to figure out what's going to happen. A few different ways things could turn out, some more probable than others.

But of course one thing is certain. The honey-pickled peaches will be the key to turning this situation around :heh:.

[ApostleOfGod]

Horo wants to go North with Lawrence. Heck, I bet she probably wouldn't even bother wanting to go to the North if Lawrence never promised or guarenteed.

Great episode. No need for any extra comments, very straightforward - he's been had, takes frustration out, on the wrong person, in the wrong time.

I'm really looking forward to 11. Damn, too bad this is done in 2 episodes..

Ookami better have a second season -_-.

[Xacual]

Yeah, I think Nora is going to play some kind of part in the scheme. It seems odd for the character to be introduced and then not actually have any effect on the outcome though she could be like chloe and only really appear again at the end of the arc.

[mikesince83]

All I have to say is wow, why have I not been following Ayako's version? The background information they include from the light novel has a major effect on the impact of the show. I think I'm beginning to understand to some extent what Vexx discussed in regards to details being left out. It was enough to make me consider re-watching the previous episodes just for the extra insight.

On another note, I was wondering why Horo didn't react the first time (19:58) Lawrence snapped at her? He's never responded to her in that manner so I figured she'd register some sort of shock/disappointment. She certainly responded clearly the second time he stepped out of line. Did she just ignore it to be supportive?

[creamyhorror]

I think the お前さえ　if not swollowed would probably had been followed by, 居なければ meaning "not here" so if the two parts tied the sentence would translate to "If you were not here with me" so the "If not for you...." isn't that far of a stretch.:cool:

You're right, looks like we made a mistake on this line. I had thought お前さえいなければ would mean "If even you weren't around, [what would I do?/how could I live on?/etc.]", but after googling, I saw you were right. Thanks :)

[metronome]

wait a minute I dont get it.......
how can they sell the credit to another company ?

it is like someone buy something from me, lets say a pen, cost 1 USD.
he make a paper filled in contract of promise that he gonna pay me 1 USD later, in other word, credit.
and then that guy tries to sell the pen for 1.2 USD to a man named C. but too bad the price of the pen is going down to 0 USD. so the pen is crap now and he still need to pay me 1 USD because of contract.
and then I know that C is actually pen collector/reseller, that's why C wanna buy it for 1.2 USD, but then the price is going down to 0 for all of C's pen, so now C is actually going bankrupt.

now, the problem lies here:
I have evil plan, I want to make this guy that try to sell the pen for 1.2 USD to C suffers.
Why?
Because actually I want him to buy the pen for 2 USD, (I even used fake scale to cheat him, but anyway he found out).
But isn't it actually illegal to sell his contract of promise to pay me 1 USD to C?

I don't know how this work in old time, but in the new modern time like today, it is not that easy to sell the credit like that, it usually takes a looooong time, some countries even prohibit this. Contract of promise to pay is usually between known entity, not to the holder of contract; not to mention that the contract has different time limit too, make it even harder to process if you wanna sell the credit. Well, may be I am not smart enough about this:D

and then, what I get from the story is actually lawrence got this trouble because of himself, he shouldn't ask for armor or at least he need more information before he bet all of his money on something like that(remember what horo said at minute 6 and up, she said that that kind of business is actually scary, since he was doing marginal buying, what if it fails? lawrence need to learn more about market and diversification). the falling price of armor seems natural in terms of economic. there is a reason why the armor prices go plummet, must have been something to do with the church and nora and stuffs. may be there is a law to force all of the price of armor to go down, or anything.

[RampagingEvangelion]

Hmmm.... Very interesting episode!

I feel bad for Lawrence, but worse for Horo! :upset:

Hmmm... the next episode is titled, "The Wolf and the great plan.". I do wonder if 'the plan' will involve Nora and that town she was talking about. This is just speculation though. I haven't read the novels.

OR... maybe it involves those mercs, like mentioned in a previous post.

But still, I nearly cried at the end. The way her face looked... :(

Then I watched 'Saving Private Ryan' and cried when I saw the graveyard. (The sight of all of those white crosses and the US flag always makes me cry.) So Basically, I've been a crying, weeping sap the entire day! Fun fun! :D

EDIT: I do wonder if there will be a second season. I don't see how they could wrap this show up in two episodes, with at least one episode revolving around Lawrence relieving his debt. Unless... Horo or Lawrence dies in the process! But that's just speculation. God I hope I'm wrong.

[Traece]

It's a sad, heartbreaking, cute(!), heartbreaking, tearful, cute(!) episode.
On one hand, aren't they just the cutest couple? xD
On the other hand, isn't Horo just the cutest little thing?!
But hands aside, this was really a hard episode to watch, with Horo just tailing along while Lawrence spills his pride in an unsealed gas tank and walk around hopelessly while his pride makes a fine wet trail behind him. Is the series really only 12 episode wrong? That's just too short for all this!! It feels like it needs to be really, really long... I think we could all watch Spice & Wolf through to episode 112, maybe even 212, am I right? ^_^

[RampagingEvangelion]

It's a sad, heartbreaking, cute(!), heartbreaking, tearful, cute(!) episode.
On one hand, aren't they just the cutest couple? xD
On the other hand, isn't Horo just the cutest little thing?!
But hands aside, this was really a hard episode to watch, with Horo just tailing along while Lawrence spills his pride in an unsealed gas tank and walk around hopelessly while his pride makes a fine wet trail behind him. Is the series really only 12 episode wrong? That's just too short for all this!! It feels like it needs to be really, really long... I think we could all watch Spice & Wolf through to episode 112, maybe even 212, am I right? ^_^

Agreed about everything with Horo. :D

212 is sorta pushing it! lol. But in all seriousness, I could see this going for another 12 episodes at least. Unless, as I said earlier, something tragic and sucky ends their journey early.

But hey, I could watch Horo's cuteness for another say... two hundred and two episodes! :D

[FlareKnight]

I do wonder if there will be a second season. I don't see how they could wrap this show up in two episodes, with at least one episode revolving around Lawrence relieving his debt. Unless... Horo or Lawrence dies in the process! But that's just speculation. God I hope I'm wrong.Is the series really only 12 episode wrong? That's just too short for all this!! It feels like it needs to be really, really long... I think we could all watch Spice & Wolf through to episode 112, maybe even 212, am I right? ^_^I'm with you both that we need more Spice and Wolf :)! Personally haven't read the novels. Not because I don't want to, but because I'm incapable of reading the language :heh:. But far as I can tell it should end along the lines of the second volume. While I'm not sure about ther ebeing enough material for 212. More than enough for something like a 26 episode season depending on how many episodes you'd like to give to each volume of the story.

Obviously can't deal with things like Horo getting to the north in the next 2-3 episodes. But at least it doesn't seem like they will end in some anime original way. Which is good since that way if they do have a second season won't have to deal with some inconsistent ending. Last couple episodes should just be dealing with the debt, finding some way to make a profit out of this nightmare, some nice Horo moments, and the role Noora plays in it all.

Just hope this series has been doing well enough to get another season. Honestly can't believe its about to end.

[Traece]

If they don't make out or better... I am going to come down on the novelist and animators SO HARD! Fanboys and fangirls... Grap your whips... In two weeks, if we don't get results... We're all going on strike against them both!
Fine, fine... 12 episodes... I can handle that without a massive depression at the end of episode 12, if they at least kiss once. Too many animes have romantic ties that are expressed fully and the couple doesn't even kiss (I'm flailing my sword at you, Lamune... And about a thousand other animes...). I would be fine with 20-26 or 32 episodes and they 'don't' kiss, but come darn well close to it! But hell, they have to do 'something' lover-esque in a 12 episode series! I'm serious!

[feRfe]

whips are good

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Wow, an unusually tense episode. I sense that this kind of thing has never happened to Lawrence before---he was really freaking out. I had a funny feeling that he had been putting his eggs all in one basket too many times, and I guess I was right. It's certainly gotten me riveted about the next episode, though.

And isn't it supposed to be "Wolf and Spice" not "Spice and Wolf"? (Ookami to Koushinryou)
I mean, can't we just stick with the literal japanese word order? I don't understand why it's flipped around in the english translation. It doesn't make any sense. :confused:

[FlareKnight]

On a side topic. If your going to have a rampage then forget the whips. Pitchforks are the tools of the angry mob :).

Well I guess having the threat of bankruptcy, career about to go down the drain, and possibly ending up in the mines where one is likely to die hasn't happened too often to Lawrence. He made a gamble with buying on credit expecting the big payoff. Don't think he's gone and took a gamble like this before.

There was a discussion about which way spice and wolf should be stated. At this point might be more than a little silly to just flip it over.

[Snuffle]

Too many animes have romantic ties that are expressed fully and the couple doesn't even kiss (I'm flailing my sword at you, Lamune... And about a thousand other animes...). I would be fine with 20-26 or 32 episodes and they 'don't' kiss, but come darn well close to it! But hell, they have to do 'something' lover-esque in a 12 episode series! I'm serious!

LOL. I can't help but see this as someone who is obsessed with kissing :heh:.
And I liked Lamune ;). Hmm... maybe I should watch it again... I hardly remember how the story went :uhoh:.

As said before, I really hope the sales are good for this show and it produces another season... Maybe that's the reason its 12 eps in the first place? To see how it does and continue with the already writen story if it does well.

Edit: Ack! forgot my comments about the ep :uhoh:

It was really hard watching the last few minutes... I couldn't help but feel sorry for the guy. I never would've gussed that all his business buddies were rejecting him because he was with a girl O_o;....

Basically, he's supposed to be at the end of his rope financially ... yet he has this fabulous young lady with him.
Now... money lenders will think either he's not really that desperate --- or worse, he may be presenting the picture that he's willing to pimp his "wife" out for money. Not a good thing for people to think in that time period.
I took this as it was him dishonoring some kinda merchant code that woman don't belong as merchants so traveling with one is disgraceful... But was it really about him looking as if he was pimping his "wife"?

[FlareKnight]

I think your probably right Snuffle. The 12 episode series could be testing the waters. After all if it does well they have plenty of material to bring out for a longer series.

We are relatively early in the series. So the more serious romantic elements probably aren't going to happen in the next couple episodes.

Maybe I'm talking a little too much. Slightly large lead in the posting for this episode. 11 to the next highest 4 :heh:.

[RampagingEvangelion]

I think your probably right Snuffle. The 12 episode series could be testing the waters. After all if it does well they have plenty of material to bring out for a longer series.

We are relatively early in the series. So the more serious romantic elements probably aren't going to happen in the next couple episodes.

Maybe I'm talking a little too much. Slightly large lead in the posting for this episode. 11 to the next highest 4 :heh:.

Yeah. A series like this was probably a big risk. A show that is basically about economics! Genius! :heh: But they way they do it is great.

There will most likely be a second season (Hopefully). I would like to see a Horo-Lawrence kiss scene in episode 12, and have their relationship develope throughout a second season. Just my own hopelessly waffy mind though. :p

[Traece]

I'm not kissing obessed... I just have issue when it comes to the cliche romantic series that ends without even so much as a decent kiss. I mean a certain Gundam had an implied sex scene. The least Spice and Wolf (It sounds catchier than Wolf and Spice, plus technically Lawrence was fully introduced first) could give us is a kiss.
Lawrence would make a heck of a pimp. Chloe, Horo, Nora... Three extremely attractive women. xD... If he showed up at my doorstep asking for 47 1/2 thorenis(?) I'd take the offer just for a little chat with Horo, much less anything beyond that.

[Xacual]

A lot of you are saying two more episodes but don't we have three more since seven was skipped and we have 11, 12, and 13?

[War_Lord]

This was quite the emotional episode, definitely a 10/10. It's moments like this I wish Spice and wolf was 26 episodes long rather than 13. 112 episodes sounded tempting, but I'd like there to be a resolution that would take less than 30 episodes.

I don't blame Lawrence for snapping, his life is in serious jeopardy. How cute Horo-sama is would be the last thing on anyone's mind in that kind of situation. At least we know he didn't mean to. Well in any case, i'm pretty certain Horo and possibly Nora will think of something to help.

[Kaoru Chujo]

...I took this as it was him dishonoring some kinda merchant code that woman don't belong as merchants so traveling with one is disgraceful... But was it really about him looking as if he was pimping his "wife"?I could be wrong, but I thought that one guy more or less said it was because he was not being upright, but trailing around town with a woman who was not his wife.

[cowteats]

It's stated in the novel that Horo actually dress like a "machi no musume" (townswoman?) while in Rubinhaigen, and these women often hook up with merchants possibly for material gains.
For example, in ep9 when the Horo and Lawrence were eating and drinking outside, the waiter told Lawrence that he's lucky to have gotten an expensive woman. The waiter actually thought that Horo is one of those women found in the streets of Rubinhaigen.

Taken that this is the Church City of Rubinhaigen, it's not usual for many of them to be devout believers, and I think the last merchant is one too. Naturally he would be angry to see Lawrence bring a whore around while trying to borrow money. Firstly he might think that Lawrence is going to use some of the borrowed money on the woman, and also it might be against his religious beliefs.

Just my deduction from reading the novels, hope that helps.

[ZODDGUTS]

Desperate times call for desperate measures time for Lawrence to start pimping Horo out, hes gotta take her wheat though if not she'll bite his head off in her wolf form. :heh:

But seriously I wonder if Nora will help out Lawrence out in the next episode though it looks like Horo has a plan to help him out.

[Khaos]

10/10
I almost fell from my chair, when Horo scared the dog away at the beginnig. :D
The romantic elements were very cute too, Now they got from 'Horo clings to his arm' to 'walking hand in hand'... :love: You can never tell, where the teasing ends and where the honesty begins, that rises the romantic tension between them even more.
And now Lawrence is in great despair, not only having been tricked, but also getting in trouble with having Horo around since there are moral customs he still doesn't know about. Darkest episode so far.

[日本ひきこもり協会]

Looks like Ayako screwed up the last line of Lawrence... they translated it as "Even you're..." but "If not for you..." make a lot more sens.

お前さえ can be translated to "Even you're..." nothing wrong with that.
Also please refrain from commenting on translations if you don't hold a degree on Japanese and your "knowledge" purely bases from what you got from watching fansubs.

By the way... "sensE"

[DanielSong39]

Horo is his de facto wife as far as I can tell... sometimes they look more like a married couple than mere companions.

In any case Horo wasn't the reason the deal fell through - and she'll probably bail him out in episode 11.

[noob3d]

Good episode but for some reason I got really sad near the end of the episode and I can't really explain why:( For the record,it turned out as how I predicted but I'm still waiting to see how Nora fits into this picture.Dedicationg an entire episode to her previously and totally shoving her aside now?Seems that 11 is going to be another "Horo saves the day" episode which would hopefully cure my sudden case of depression.Anyway,I did a full review for it but I now have a big dilemma.To watch Ayako or BSS's version:confused:?I liked Ayako's 10 for the extras but I'm more at ease with BSS's fonts...o well good job to both of them.

[Sinestra]

This was an extraordinary episode imo because it showed that the series has incredible range. Lawrence has been pretty much rolling on good luck since the series started but now we get to see Lawrence at a low point. It easy to be the cool guy when everything goes your way but the real test is when things dont go your way and Lawrence kind of failed that at the moment not completely just a little.

I understand his frustration and we all get like that not one of us has not snapped at a person when we were upset or frustrated. But i think that his and Horo's relationship is very different. Its obvious that Horo wants to be of use to him which is why she wanted to come along in the end it backfired. Its safe to assume that Lawrence will not end up a slave or anything because even if he is taken into custody Horo will break him out, she doesnt play by the same rules humans do.

Its shame this happen because they were getting so close and Horo in her own let Lawrence see a side of her that truly cares for him. He should have gone after her he really should have i was disappointed by that. He better aplogize to Horo's hearts content when he sees her again. He was an ass to Horo and he needs to take responsibility, if hes a man that is.

now im curious if someone really is setting him up or if he stumbled into this blindly . There is way out and im sure Lawrence and Horo together can find it.

now the real question

[Jer]

What a nice setup to end the series (can't deny that I wished for more). The emotions in this episode is rich and fitting. Lawrence brushing Horo aside was just painful to watch even though he regretted it. Btw, props to Ayako for making a v2 for episode 10. The brief summary at the end is comprehensive and useful for those who didn't read the novel like me.

[RampagingEvangelion]

It's stated in the novel that Horo actually dress like a "machi no musume" (townswoman?) while in Rubinhaigen, and these women often hook up with merchants possibly for material gains.
For example, in ep9 when the Horo and Lawrence were eating and drinking outside, the waiter told Lawrence that he's lucky to have gotten an expensive woman. The waiter actually thought that Horo is one of those women found in the streets of Rubinhaigen.

Taken that this is the Church City of Rubinhaigen, it's not usual for many of them to be devout believers, and I think the last merchant is one too. Naturally he would be angry to see Lawrence bring a whore around while trying to borrow money. Firstly he might think that Lawrence is going to use some of the borrowed money on the woman, and also it might be against his religious beliefs.

Just my deduction from reading the novels, hope that helps.

That's what I got from it as well. I don't think it was the fact that he was traveling with a woman that caused the man to not loan Lawrence money, but the fact that it appeared that Horo may have been a whore.

When you take that into consideration, the man's actions seem about right. If a friend comes up to me and says, "I'm in massive debt! Could you lend me $1000.00?" as a woman who is not his wife but instead looks like a prostitute is with him, I wouldn't give him jack.

She just wanted to help, but it ended up being his downfall. :(

[Xacual]

Something that came to my mind last night but frustration is an emotion that Horo probably understands really well from her time in the village. She definitely mentions being frustrated that the villagers had stopped believing she was real and any time she actually appeared they were just afraid of her. Based on that I think its pretty sure she'll forgive Lawrence when he actually gets back to the inn and probably really apologizes.

[TinyRedLeaf]

I liked this episode very much, but unfortunately the poor animation quality knocked a would-be 9 rating down to 8.

The banter between Horo and Lawrence at the beginning of the episode was exceptionally well done. For once, I found Horo undeniably cute, in sharp contrast to last week, when I found her very irritating. The difference lies entirely in the wittiness of their conversation. Horo's teasing led to an unexpected confession from Lawrence. I couldn't help but chuckle at how hen-pecked Lawrence has become. He is literally eating out of Horo's paw. :heh:

Oh, it's also cute to see other men trying to hit on Horo. Obviously, a woman like her would have instant admirers. ;)

But this scene becomes exceptionally good when compared to later events. Horo and Lawrence suffer the first serious test to their relationship, when Lawrence's business takes a sudden dive. Firstly, it was Horo's intervention that allowed Lawrence to "acquire" armour at half-price, which led him to his present predicament. Secondly, Horo's presence prevented him from getting much needed loans. When you consider the dire consequences of bankcruptcy, it's no wonder that Lawrence would snap at Horo in the end.

It's sad but true -- business failures can cause severe strain on otherwise happy relationships. It has happened in the past, it continues to happen today, and it is interesting to see it portrayed in this story as well.

Once again, it looks like Horo would have to pull some tricks next week to save Lawrence's "tail".

wait a minute I dont get it.......
how can they sell the credit to another company ?

I don't know how this work in old time, but in the new modern time like today, it is not that easy to sell the credit like that, it usually takes a looooong time, some countries even prohibit this. Contract of promise to pay is usually between known entity, not to the holder of contract; not to mention that the contract has different time limit too, make it even harder to process if you wanna sell the credit. Well, may be I am not smart enough about this:D

By the way, it's not unusual to sell your debt. In this case, since the Latopeiron Company was on the verge of bankcruptcy, it had no choice but to sell its debt to Remerio to settle the open transaction. The process is very similar to factoring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoring_(finance)), except that it doesn't seem that the debt was sold at a discount (perhaps it was, but we aren't told).

According to the Wiki entry, factoring has been around since the 1400s, so it was not unknown during the Middle Ages. As for modern times, the whole reason why the US is facing a possible recession this year is because many people had gone crazy when it came to debt-trading (sub-prime housing mortgages, in this case). So, yeah, it's not an old phenomenom, and it seems that we still haven't learnt the lesson till today. :heh:

Horo mentioned, in this episode, how she was uncomfortable with credit trading. I suppose that was a foreshadowing of things to come. Certainly, if Lawrence had not bought the armour on credit, he wouldn't be in as big of a hole as he is in, right now. But, I wonder if Horo's quote reflects the author's sensibilities -- East Asians in general are uncomfortable with debt, but Westerners have always stressed how debt is cheaper than equity, and use leverage as a way for achieving high-ratio growth. Ah well, it doesn't matter -- this is not related to Spice and Wolf anyway.

(My thanks also to Ayako for the background details from the novel. :) )

[DanielSong39]

Lawrence dug himself the hole he finds himself in by overextending himself. He has only himself to blame and he'd be in a much worse situation or dead if Horo hadn't bailed him out on several occasions. Even the loan wouldn't have saved him since that only increases the mountain of debt and he still needs to find a way to dump the armor.

Once he realizes this I think there will be a reconcilliation. Let's see if Lawrence learns from this and stops putting himself in situations where he is in way over his head. It's about time he takes his own advice that he gave to Chloe...

P.S. I think Horo and Nora will make a great team. Let's see what they can hatch up in episode 11!

[BigGimp77]

UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH. I hope there is a second season. Two more episodes is NOT ENOUGH TO TAME MY HORO ADDICTION.:eyespin::eyespin:

[Sinestra]

P.S. I think Horo and Nora will make a great team. Let's see what they can hatch up in episode 11!

A wolf working with a Shepard hum interesting but i could see many problems with that. Especially that sounds Nora's staff makes.

[mikesince83]

By the way, it's not unusual to sell your debt. In this case, since the Latopeiron Company was on the verge of bankcruptcy, it had no choice but to sell its debt to Remerio to settle the open transaction. The process is very similar to factoring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoring_(finance)), except that it doesn't seem that the debt was sold at a discount (perhaps it was, but we aren't told).

According to the Wiki entry, factoring has been around since the 1400s, so it was not unknown during the Middle Ages. As for modern times, the whole reason why the US is facing a possible recession this year is because many people had gone crazy when it came to debt-trading (sub-prime housing mortgages, in this case). So, yeah, it's not an old phenomenom, and it seems that we still haven't learnt the lesson till today. :heh:

Horo mentioned, in this episode, how she was uncomfortable with credit trading. I suppose that was a foreshadowing of things to come. Certainly, if Lawrence had not bought the armour on credit, he wouldn't be in as big of a hole as he is in, right now. But, I wonder if Horo's quote reflects the author's sensibilities -- East Asians in general are uncomfortable with debt, but Westerners have always stressed how debt is cheaper than equity, and use leverage as a way for achieving high-ratio growth.
Ah well, it doesn't matter -- this is not related to Spice and Wolf anyway.

I'm not so sure, sounds like most of that would fit comfortably right into the script for a Spice and Wolf episode!

[DanielSong39]

Lawrence has good instincts and decent skills but he is WAY too reckless if you ask me. He got himself in trouble by going too far and making an enemy out of the merchant. If you play your cards right you can make a decent profit AND give your former adversary a chance to save face. Here was one way he could have handled this:

(1) Ask for armor as collateral. If Lawrence can't find a buyer he can return the armor and get ~1200 silver pieces back.
(2) Sell him an option - the right to all profits from the deal (after expenses) for 250 silver. The option is only good if Lawrence makes a profit.
(3) Negotiate insurance - Lawrence pays 50 for insurance. If Lawrence is robbed he can still get the 1200 silver pieces with a deductable of 100 silver pieces; i.e. Lawrence gets 1100 back. The option is negated in this case.

So here is what happens in each case:

A. Lawrence gets robbed - Lawrence gets 1050 while the merchant loses the money and the armor.
B. Lawrence cannot sell the armor for a profit - Lawrence gets 1200 back while the merchant gets the armor back.
C. Lawrence sells the armor for a profit - Lawrence gets 1200 plus the 250 for the option minus 50 for the insurance (1400 total). The merchant gets the entire share of the profits.

So even under a terrible scenario Lawrence lives to fight another day, while if he can sell the armor for profit he gets 1400. Even better if he makes a killing, since that allows his former adversary to make a tidy profit as well - a perfect win-win situation in which he would make an ally out of an adversary.

[Anh_Minh]

What are you talking about? There is no free lunch. The first two options are nothing less than robbery. Or blackmail, I suppose, which is what he was doing in the first place. If you're going to think like that, you might as well say he should have skipped the formalities and demanded payment for his silence in cold hard cash.

What he did was much closer to letting the merchant keep face and not have excessive losses. Indeed, if all had gone according to plan, they'd both have made a profit. Though of course, the other merchant's share would have been much smaller than normal.

As for option C, it wouldn't have saved Lawrence against what really happened: a collapse of the market. Sure, you could say he could have payed for insurance against that... But that would normally have shrunk the profits. As I said, no free lunch.

Then again, if he'd asked for insurance, what would truly have happened is that he'd have found out about the drop in price then, before it was too late.

[DanielSong39]

Dude, he sold the guy his entire load of pepper that he paid 1000 silver pieces for.

Dang right he should expect some kind of payment for that. How is that "free"?

P.S. The idea is to do ALL THREE things as part of the same transaction. This ain't multiple choice.

[Vexx]

After a few viewings.. I give this ep a "10" ... reasons why later.

Later Edit:
in one epsiode we get what is basically Lawrence proclaiming his love for her, a wonderful series of vignettes of them chatting, holding hands, her concern so obvious that it hurts.. .and then his desperate lash out that *really* tore the heartstrings.

I finally *get* what that last merchant was on about --- he had turned into a snooty "better than thou" Church-goer and basically turned Lawrence down because he had the temerity to obviously be in the company of a woman that was not his wife. O the horror.... :eyebrow: but not unusual attitude for people of that time.

Poor Horo had no idea that such a thing was a problem (recalling her "so what, then say we're lovers" remark earlier).

A simply amazing amount of material for one episode though once again I'm quite certain 2 or 3 episodes of dialog were "lost in adaptation".

Any episode that has me giddy in the first part and my heart hurts in the second part probably executed its task well.

I admit to being completely baffled as to how either Horo or him can pull out of this nosedive.

[tabun]

Indeed, I am curious as well! I completely agree with Vexx on the episode's execution, very well done.

Concerning the fact only 2 episodes remain, I'd wager there will be a second season, at least an opening in episode 12 allowing for one. Nora has just been introduced, and with those 2 episodes left will probably not have much of an appearance.

Now onto another weak of waiting ;(

[Xacual]

Ok, you guys are scaring me. I thought there was still three episodes left because seven was skipped so the 13 episode season became a 12 with an extra on dvd. Episode Ten is still ten though so we have 11, 12 and 13 left right?

Please tell me I'm not mistaken here, the series ending in two weeks would feel a little more rushed to me. Everything getting solved and finished in two episodes?

[ItsTrue]

Someone mentioned that a few pages before too...
I think that we have 3 episodes left, not 2.

[DanielSong39]

Any chance of a wedding?

After all, they are all but married at this point. Heck, Lawrence has introduced Horo as his wife on a number of occasions.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Any chance of a wedding?

After all, they are all but married at this point. Heck, Lawrence has introduced Horo as his wife on a number of occasions.

...I seriously doubt it. At the risk of sounding impolite, I'll just say don't get your hopes up. I can't believe I need to remind you of this, but Horo isn't human; she only resembles one. And that's if you don't take into account her tail and ears. :rolleyes:

[Anh_Minh]

Dude, he sold the guy his entire load of pepper that he paid 1000 silver pieces for.

Dang right he should expect some kind of payment for that. How is that "free"?

P.S. The idea is to do ALL THREE things as part of the same transaction. This ain't multiple choice.

Your "solution" is a guaranteed profit of at least 50 silver. That means a free 50 silver coins.

That's a basic economic principle. No free lunch. No risk, no profit. About the only thing Lawrence could do for a low risk activity is cart goods that aren't his. (They're either already sold, or he's just carrying them between two warehouses of the same company).

The problems with that are:
- the merchant would have had no use for such a service, since the armor was worthless anyway.
- as a competent merchant, Lawrence should be able to make much more money than a simple cart driver, so it'd be a waste of his time.


The real question is: how was Lawrence caught unaware? The cancellation of the expedition should have been as big an event as the Pope canceling the new year ceremonies. Lawrence should have heard of it as he came closer to the holy city. Plot hole to make the story advance?

[Vexx]

I sincerely doubt the Church will be interested in marrying a man to a manifestation of a pagan nature spirit -- no matter how cute she is.

You're right though... they're all but married in consummation (ignores lots of doujinshi) as far as sane people not under the thumb of the Church are concerned. This is one instance where rural "unsophisticated" peoples would be more open to common-law arrangements than "urban right-thinking" folk.

I have speculation how the series will end... but it may be unsatisfactory to some. :)

@Anh: I don't *think* it was a plot hole... I think he was out of the "chatter" loop because he took the empty road that only Nora was on. Therefore, he missed out on gossip that may have been traveling the other roads.

However, I haven't started the second volume of the novel to decide if from a purely anime standpoint it maintains self-consistency. The anime itself doesn't really even mention the reason for armor being wanted or why it suddenly plummeted in value.

[Anh_Minh]

He should have been aware of it even before buying the armor. He was already in a Church dominated land, remember? The expedition wasn't just a local thing. It was major, and as such its cancellation should have been gossiped about far and wide. Especially in a pious town like the one he bought the armor in.

[Vexx]

Good point..... hmmm, I wonder if that is explained better in the novel or if the chronology is different. I'm holding off trying to read the second novel til after the series. It does appear to be, if not a plothole, a major faux pas... (wolf paws?) on Lawrence's part to have missed it (or that the cancellation was being kept quiet though I can't see how since many infantry would be involved to support a knightly assault).

[Anh_Minh]

It's even worse than just the infantry. It's all those mercenaries turned bandits when the contracts didn't come through. Everyone talked about the bandits, who'd become a big problem, but nobody talked about the cause?

[cowteats]

It's mentioned in the book 2 that not even the people living in Rubinhaigen know about the cancellation of the expedition until it is announced, at which the armor prices must have plunged immediately. Remerio Company is also one of the victims of this fall in prices, for they have invested a large sum of money in armor as well. And they didn't knew about the cancellation despite being a merchant living in Rubinhaigen. So there's no way Lawrence could have known about it in advance.

The merchant of Latopeiron in Poloson, however knew about it in advance, which was why he agree to Lawrence's purchase of armor (happily).

[grey_moon]

I'm howling in agony over spice man and wolf's situation right now. Howl with me everyone!!!!

[TrueKnight]

Lawrence's been tricked, now in debt because of the credit, and each person who he thought had owed to him (meaning a future receivables for him) rejected and/or refused to bail him out. Finally the last person who he had hoped willing to help flatly shun him because he sees Lawrence manage to pick some hooker from the street.

It's a mistake that Lawrence snaps at Horo, but from Lawrence's perspective, frustated, wasted effort and at the edge of bankruptcy, or worse, hard labor....it's completely understandable why he lost it.... I hope they somehow reconcile next episode, with Horo would probably save him....again.

[Anh_Minh]

It's mentioned in the book 2 that not even the people living in Rubinhaigen know about the cancellation of the expedition until it is announced, at which the armor prices must have plunged immediately. Remerio Company is also one of the victims of this fall in prices, for they have invested a large sum of money in armor as well. And they didn't knew about the cancellation despite being a merchant living in Rubinhaigen. So there's no way Lawrence could have known about it in advance.

The merchant of Latopeiron in Poloson, however knew about it in advance, which was why he agree to Lawrence's purchase of armor (happily).

Yeah, that begs two questions:
- how did he know?
- how did everyone else not know?

It's just too big to be concealed. There were to many people who had to know. Or at least know something like that was up. For example, the hundred of unemployed mercenaries, now making the roads impracticable with their banditry? They know. The god knows how many merchants who sell stuff to the Church every year around this time period? They know. Whoever's working as personal servants or assistants for the bigwigs who usually go? They know.

And it's not like it could have happened overnight while Lawrence was between Pollson and Rubinhaigen, since the bandits were already active when he arrived in Pollson.

[cowteats]

Yeah, that begs two questions:
- how did he know?
- how did everyone else not know?

It's just too big to be concealed. There were to many people who had to know. Or at least know something like that was up. For example, the hundred of unemployed mercenaries, now making the roads impracticable with their banditry? They know. The god knows how many merchants who sell stuff to the Church every year around this time period? They know. Whoever's working as personal servants or assistants for the bigwigs who usually go? They know.

And it's not like it could have happened overnight while Lawrence was between Pollson and Rubinhaigen, since the bandits were already active when he arrived in Pollson.

You are right, that certainly is something strange about that. Unless (a) those mercenaries actually got discharged from their services without being given a proper reason.

But the fall in armor prices could have happened overnight. Just imagine that if Bill Gates die today, and no official announcement was made to the world until one week later, then the Microsoft stock prices will dip only after one week. Why? Because no one knows about it yet.

Suppose that (b) Rubinhaigen has made a decision not to launch the expedition, but no official announcement has been made to the world yet, so similarly the armor prices won't fall yet. However, if (c) the Poloson merchant happen to know somebody with inside information, he may know of the decision before it was officially announced to the world.

However none of my speculations (a), (b) or (c) were mentioned in the novel at all. In fact, it was written from Lawrence perspective that he's guessing the Poloson merchant knew about the cancellation in advance. I guess the author is either leaving it to the imagination of the readers, or it's a plot hole.

[Anh_Minh]

The mercenaries didn't need to be given a proper reason. They only needed to know they weren't hired. Even if they don't conclude with 100% certainty the expedition is canceled (unlikely, because the reasons it's canceled are public), they can make a guess, and so can whoever knows they weren't hired. Which is pretty much everyone in the region.

Imagine China stops all its preparations for the Olympic games and fires the workers involved in it. Even without an official announcement that the Olympic games are canceled or moved, you'll know there is something going on, and that maybe investing large sums in the games is a bad idea right now. Even if normal people somehow fail to pay attention, part of Lawrence's job - pretty much the main part, in fact - is to know about that sort of things. What will make the prices rise or drop.

[Thentus]

Painful to watch, but a good episode.

I know many people think it was unjust for Lawrence to snap at Horo, but he just realized he wasted most of his life, and may be in a situation where he will have to give up even MORE of his life as a manual laborer. He just needed somewhere to channel his anger, and since he didn't break down in tears Horo was "there for him".

Resolve needed, please.

[Vexx]

It was an extra painful moment after watching her be so happy and trying to support him for most of the episode after he essentially confessed to her at episode start.

Yeah, pins and needles to see what happens next.

[cowteats]

The mercenaries didn't need to be given a proper reason. They only needed to know they weren't hired. Even if they don't conclude with 100% certainty the expedition is canceled (unlikely, because the reasons it's canceled are public), they can make a guess, and so can whoever knows they weren't hired. Which is pretty much everyone in the region.

Imagine China stops all its preparations for the Olympic games and fires the workers involved in it. Even without an official announcement that the Olympic games are canceled or moved, you'll know there is something going on, and that maybe investing large sums in the games is a bad idea right now. Even if normal people somehow fail to pay attention, part of Lawrence's job - pretty much the main part, in fact - is to know about that sort of things. What will make the prices rise or drop.

It could be that it is not uncommon for mercenaries to pillage, though it's strange that no one in Rubinhaigen manage to foresee anything. Also, I wonder how approachable the mercenaries are, or how much contact the mercenaries have with society, given that they do such dastardy deeds.

Workers for Olympic games would have spread the information among society of now easily, being healthy members of society, and using the aid of the communication tools we have now. But is it possible that mercenaries weren't much in contact with society to begin with? It could be that even though they weren't hired, no one knew about it, yet.

Once again, all these are just speculations.

[Vexx]

It may be just that it was a weak point or plothole in the story (only second adventure after all) and that we'll just have to see if the author improved in later adventures.

What we seem to have is that the merchant Lawrence "win-win" blackmailed had some sort of advance information about the market for armor (perhaps he has a brother in the Church) -- and was intent on nailing Lawrence even though Lawrence provided a face-saving solution.
The "unlevel table" merchant, for the moment, seems to have succeeded in ruining Lawrence's finances and possibly his life -- even more cleverly by selling off the problem to someone else (can we say sub-prime mortgage turnover?) so the disaster befalls Lawrence from indirect hands.

Throughout this episode, we're seeing stronger indications that the "Church" in this story setting is almost not bothering to hide that power and domination drives it more than anything else.

[creamyhorror]

The mercenaries didn't need to be given a proper reason. They only needed to know they weren't hired. Even if they don't conclude with 100% certainty the expedition is canceled (unlikely, because the reasons it's canceled are public), they can make a guess, and so can whoever knows they weren't hired. Which is pretty much everyone in the region.


Firstly, I believe the mercenaries-turned-bandits were based in the North, which could mean they were actually hired by, or sympathetic to, the heretical lands. (Correct me if I'm wrong, cowteats.) They were quite possibly not the same mercenaries who were to be hired for the march north.

That doesn't preclude the fact that any news of cancellation would have spread quickly and crashed the market. The entire town of Rubinhaigen had known it for some time. Lawrence didn't know because 1) he was uncharacteristically careless about gathering information beforehand, and/or 2) bad plotting. That's what I think anyway.

[Xacual]

Yeah I think it was poor information gathering on Lawrence's part. He was so sure that armor would be a good thing to take because in all the time he has been working as a merchant it has probably always been a sure thing to make a decent profit. Remember Lawrence has only been working for 7 years right, with maybe a few years before that apprenticing or just observing people in the field. If you've watched a town and see that a certain product is always sold and used there during those years you'd be kind of lazy to keep checking on it after a while.

Of course that doesn't change the fact that no one outside of Rubinhaigen was talking about it even though it should have been a big deal in the area. So maybe a possible plot hole though I could see how it might have been kept out of the public ear by the church up until an announcement.

That's my thought on how Lawrence got into the mess. Like the Guild guy said, he got greedy and didn't stop to think about it.

[Anh_Minh]

It could be that it is not uncommon for mercenaries to pillage, though it's strange that no one in Rubinhaigen manage to foresee anything. Also, I wonder how approachable the mercenaries are, or how much contact the mercenaries have with society, given that they do such dastardy deeds.

Workers for Olympic games would have spread the information among society of now easily, being healthy members of society, and using the aid of the communication tools we have now. But is it possible that mercenaries weren't much in contact with society to begin with? It could be that even though they weren't hired, no one knew about it, yet.

Once again, all these are just speculations.
Mercenaries who pillage their employers' own land before the fight's even started don't get hired. By anyone.

As for how much contact they have with society - I'd seriously doubt that they don't have "contacts" with the town's taverns. And whores. And foodsellers. And all sorts of people who'd notice a lack of paying customers.

[FlareKnight]

Yeah could just be a plot hole that came up relatively early in the story. But at least it has created some interesting discussion. Trying to figure out why Lawrence didn't find out how that kind of news hadn't spread out.

At least the early part of the episode helps by being lighthearted. Can always go back and forget about the troubles Lawrence is going to get himself into trouble with later. And regardless of how they got into that mess should be interesting to see how they get back out of it again.

[DanielSong39]

There are probably some plot holes but I think the biggest issues are:

(1) How did Lawrence get into this mess?
(2) How will he get out?

(1) People may have different opinions about what he should have done, but I think the general consensus is that Lawrence got too greedy by getting armor on margin. Not only did he put himself in a dangerous position by going deeply into debt, he picked a commodity that is a bit more sensitive to market conditions (at least compared to things like wheat, furs, and pepper). If he gets less armor he takes a huge loss but lives on to fight another day.

(2) I think both Horo and Nora will play a role. Horo has "earned her keep" from the start and her value has well exceeded the 140 silver pieces Lawrence claims she owes - if it weren't for her there's a good chance that Lawrence would be broke, jailed, or dead. She will find a way to dump the armor, or in the worst case scenario, help him escape his creditors. As for Nora, she is obviously an important character in this storyline and she will most likely play a major role in what happens.

No matter how things turn out, it was an important (and expensive) lesson for Lawrence. He's been way too reckless on a number of occasions and such a lifestyle almost inevitably leads to ruin. You can't push all-in every single time if you wish to succeed over the long run.

[TinyRedLeaf]

No matter how things turn out, it was an important (and expensive) lesson for Lawrence. He's been way too reckless on a number of occasions and such a lifestyle almost inevitably leads to ruin. You can't push all-in every single time if you wish to succeed over the long run.

Eh? When has Lawrence been "reckless"? Opportunistic, yes maybe, but reckless? He's an entrepreneur and all entrepreneurs are "reckless" risk-takers to some extent. After all, higher risks lead to higher profit.

If anything, I would argue that it was Horo who had been reckless and impulsive, not Lawrence. She jumped in unexpectedly to raise the selling price of his marten pelts, using a ploy that was almost like a scam. She shows a complete disregard for Lawrence's attempts to save his precious silver, arrogantly confident that she can earn her keep and more.

If you ask me, Lawrence had been fairly careful and intelligent throughout the anime. He could have avoided his present predicament had he heard about the market crash in advance, but unfortunately, information does not flow easily. Not in a modern economy, let alone a medieval one.

[Vexx]

Looks like the series is getting popular enough to attract silent troll anti-votes. :) EvilDoGi seems to dislike the series for unspoken reasons.

On topic:
One reason information may not flow freely is that "The Church is Watching You" .... it may be unwise to talk about a failed or canceled crusade. Obviously, we're just looking for a way to rationalize an unclear plotline point. Fortunately, there are a number of possible explanations -- the anime writers are focusing on the personal (how this affects Horo & Lawrence) rather than the Big Picture, kind of like a squad in a big war often has no idea what the overall situation is.

[Anh_Minh]

He could have avoided his predicament by not going into debt.

[DanielSong39]

Exhibit 1: the money-changing scheme. It was apparent from the start that this was a risky and potentially dangerous operation, with questionable upside. Alas, he was lucky to escape this venture in one piece.

Exhibit 2: buying armor on credit. EVERYONE, from Horo to members of his guild to his adversaries, are agreement on this. Even Lawrence himself admits as much. He could have avoided his present predicament by taking half the armor. He would've lost everything he had, but he would've at least had his freedom.

Lawrence is intelligent but he isn't careful. If he was, this show wouldn't be nearly as fun to watch. It looks like it is up to the seemingly reckless Horo to get him out of yet another jam.

[Vexx]

Sometime you invest in a talented person that has potential even if they make mistakes early. As Lawrence said, he sees something worth investing in (Horo). I'd say Horo still thinks Lawrence is worth investing in as well (though he failed his Charisma check with Critical Fail at the end of ep 10).

[Likely]

this episode was hard to watch. seeing a good person like lawrence in utter misery makes you a little miserable inside. but i am sure, obviously, they are setting up for some entertaining climax where he is saved somehow, and from my pure speculation, id say it involves that yellow-haired girl. makes sense right? they dedicated the whole preceding episode to her and left her out completely as lawrence and horo entered the city. im guessing she must be part of the story as they exit the city.

anyway, a good story and great production.

[Thentus]

this episode was hard to watch. seeing a good person like lawrence in utter misery makes you a little miserable inside. but i am sure, obviously, they are setting up for some entertaining climax where he is saved somehow, and from my pure speculation, id say it involves that yellow-haired girl. makes sense right? they dedicated the whole preceding episode to her and left her out completely as lawrence and horo entered the city. im guessing she must be part of the story as they exit the city.

anyway, a good story and great production.

Don't forget that this just shows how imperfection is very possible and everything can't always go right. A sense of realism is added into this episode, at least I think so.

Lawrence will previal though, eventually. Even if that means next season, please.

[LKK]

Lawrence will previal though, eventually. Even if that means next season, please.
I'd much prefer it if Lawrence prevailed this season. I'd hate to leave him hanging in such despair while we wait for another season that has yet to be announced. :upset:

[Thentus]

I'd much prefer it if Lawrence prevailed this season. I'd hate to leave him hanging in such despair while we wait for another season that has yet to be announced. :upset:

I would too, I was sort of kidding though.

Since it is slice-of-life I could see it going on for another season if it just gets the right type of response. Prevailation is inevitable in this anime, after all it is an anime :heh:. That is, unless somebody loses their mind halfway through writing it.

[DanielSong39]

I think this season will end with Lawrence getting out of the jam and continuing his journey to the north with Horo.

Not sure whether they'll make much of a profit out of this deal, but they will surely live to fight another day.

This has been a good show so far, and I'd be interested in seeing how Nora fits into the whole equation.

[MyGoddess]

Wow, what an episode. In the end it was pretty nicely explained why Lawrence didn't want to bring Horo with him. Horo must now feel really guilty for forcing Lawrence into bringing her along. :(

Things are looking pretty grim indeed...

9/10

[Weissent]

One thing in ep 10 that really brightened my day was that the staff used some buildings from my hometown of Freiburg, Germany for backgrounds, e.g. the historic "Rathaus" (city-hall):

http://www.evereve.net/off/rathaus%20freiburg.jpg

Here's a photo of it:

http://blog.transporteativo.org.br/up/t/tr/blog.transporteativo.org.br/img/Freiburg_Rathaus.jpg

[todkapuz]

now, the problem lies here:
I have evil plan, I want to make this guy that try to sell the pen for 1.2 USD to C suffers.
Why?
Because actually I want him to buy the pen for 2 USD, (I even used fake scale to cheat him, but anyway he found out).
But isn't it actually illegal to sell his contract of promise to pay me 1 USD to C?


While I don't know all the history of it... I know today it is quite often that people sell other people's debt ... as an investment.. look at America's sub-prime problems ... banks loan money to a person .. then the bank sells the debt to other organziations (and even the open market) ... to me it is kinda weird that it actually makes people money... but I can see the point... I loan person A money, but then something horrible happens and I need money, so I sell the debt to person C for less than it is worth, and now I am out of trouble, and C makes a profit on the debt repayment. Believe it or not, it happened on my car.. my lein holder changed because of my lean being sold to someone else. I'm sure someone has explained it better than me. It's just another type of "investment". Here in america it's gone wild, because when B sells it to C, C sold it to the people, and did not provide any (or much) disclosure about the actual investments .. especally that they were made on the variable rates... so the risk vs benifit was not carried down to person F (the unknowing investor).

Anyhow... I loved this episode... Horo is really developing to be a very fascinating woman .. er wolf... er whatever.. :) ... I love her pride and caring is part of what is hurting our poor male lead. :) it will make it even more interesting to see how he deals with this all and his feelings about her.

edit:
One thing in ep 10 that really brightened my day was that the staff used some buildings from my hometown of Freiburg, Germany for backgrounds, e.g. the historic "Rathaus" (city-hall):


Here's a photo of it:


Yea! I always love when they use actual buildings and locations in anime... seems to be more and more popular too.... :)

[FlareKnight]

I think this season will end with Lawrence getting out of the jam and continuing his journey to the north with Horo.

Not sure whether they'll make much of a profit out of this deal, but they will surely live to fight another day.

This has been a good show so far, and I'd be interested in seeing how Nora fits into the whole equation.I agree that's likely how they will finish it up. I wouldn't expect them to just leave the situation in limbo. Will probably find some way on this jam and continue the road North to new problems :heh:. Hard to say if they will find any way to make money or if it will just be keeping Lawrence out of the mines which is alright by me.

Also pretty interesting to see the real world counterpart of that anime building.

[iczelion74]

I just cant make out what Horo keeps calling Lawrence in episode 10 and its driving me crazy. So what is she saying?

[Tri-ring]

I just cant make out what Horo keeps calling Lawrence in episode 10 and its driving me crazy. So what is she saying?

Are you refering to "Nushi (主)" meaning master in literal form due to usage of Oiran kotoba, but in a more casual sense in spoken language it means "you".
By the way if you watch Jidaigeki, you hear people calling others "O-nushi (御主)" which again in literal form is a respective form of Nushi.

Other name calling I found interesting was "Tawake (戯け)" in abuse by Horo towards Lawrence.
This is an old word which would equal to "Fool".
It originated from dividing rice patty(田分け) as inheritance by a farmer to more than one siblings.
Productivity and efficiency of farm land decreases when divided into small patches resulting to this hoot.

[DanielSong39]

Upon second thought, I don't think Horo's presence made any difference to Lawrence's plight. After getting rejected from the first few places, his situation started to snowball as people picked up on what he was doing. It was his desperation, rather than perceived immorality, that was his undoing.

It is somewhat maddening, however, that people didn't explain to him the situation with the armor sooner. Probably a minor plot hole.

Oh well, all I want to see is for Horo (and Nora) to kick some tail. I have a feeling that I won't be disappointed.

[seaghyn16]

I'm going to throw a bit of gloom into the works. Okay, my speculation.

The novels are a 7+ Volume series, and continuing.

The Anime is a 13 episode series, with no facts about a season 2.

FullMetal Alchemist's anime diverged immensely from the manga, so theres a possibility it could happen elsewhere as well. (FMA is just the best example I have ^_^)

My outlook, Lawrence doesn't get the money, gets killed, Horo is discovered and somehow restrained, possibly from losing the wheat or something happening, Nora is the evil mastermind, and the series will have no problem ending in 2 episodes. ^_^

Thus, Hasuna splendidly creates avid fans of the novels, as they become more and more wanted, for the plot line that doesn't involve Lawrences death, and Horo's being controlled by Nora who controls wolves.

What do you think? (I believe it was time for a bit of negativism ^_^)

(Actually....I'll go with the anime ending with this "story arc", and then them "riding off into the sunset" onto more adventures that there will be no season 2 for yet)

[Vexx]

I think you've been reading too many of Flo's posts :)

[seaghyn16]

I think you've been reading too many of Flo's posts :)

Actually, I don't recall reading 1.....you've just peaked my curiosity, so here I go on a post search ^_^

EDIT

Alot about Nora being the evil magician mastermind....hahaha

Well, you know what they say. ones a "roomer" and two's "trooth". really.

[Sinestra]

Wow some of you guys speculation blows my mind in ways that oh so hurt me. Lawrence killed? I just cant see that happening this is not that type of show for them go around killing characters off. If that was the case they would have let Chole bite the dust a ways back.

Oh well at least you guys entertain me and i get a laugh.:heh:

[FlareKnight]

Well don't think they have the time to do anything crazy here. Should just be able to solve the current predicament and have them ride towards their next problem. But interesting attempt to put some gloom into it :heh:.

Are some times with series that I get worried, but for some reason not too concerned here.

[seaghyn16]

Hahaha, everyone knows the best tragic tales start with a slowly blossoming love. Just look at Romeo and Juliet ^_^ (albeit they go pretty far pretty fast...)

Honestly, I write this because with so much positive speculation, I mean....that's exactly how it's going to happen. But by putting in thoughts of even more struggles and hard times, (death being pretty extreme I'll grant, maybe Lawrence just ends up in the mines ^_^) It makes the way the story-tellers tell it all that much more relieving, and beautiful. So, lets hear some more posts about how this is going to turn into an R&J tale, or list the absolute worse scenarios. (With some positive posts ^_^)

Then again, 11 airs pretty soon. Hurry!

[FlareKnight]

Well you could go into Horo taking on the soldiers etc to save Lawrence from capture. Maybe she gets a couple scratches before taking down half the city :heh:. Not sure how bad things could get without really letting go.

[Tri-ring]

Well you could go into Horo taking on the soldiers etc to save Lawrence from capture. Maybe she gets a couple scratches before taking down half the city :heh:. Not sure how bad things could get without really letting go.

I think you're mistaking this anime with another, the Rental Magica thread is two columns above in the fansub section. :D

Sorry make that three, I completely forgotten the unaired section.:heh:

[seaghyn16]

@Tri-ring rofl. Hahahaha.

Okay, so let's go with Horo's friends from the north, at the beginning of the journey. Let's say she meets some in the city, after she helped Lawrence out, and then dumps Lawrence. hey, lets just say. That would be a huge bummer for the HoroXLawrence fans --->me....after all, this is called Spice and Wolf, not Lawrence and Wolf. So technically.....Okay, wolf could be anything also. The main characters haven't been introduced yet....

But seriously. Horo meets up with an old OLD friend, and they ditch Lawrence and start looking for their other friends, and Lawrence is saved, only to end up in the mines sometime later. Church hunts them all, story's over.

/cry

[FlareKnight]

I think you're mistaking this anime with another, the Rental Magica thread is two columns above in the fansub section. :D

Sorry make that three, I completely forgotten the unaired section.:heh:Haha little chance of me getting confused there. With the high rolling 150 posts I have in that series' thread :D.

[RayzorFang]

hmm does anyone know what Lawrence did with the his 18 piles of arms? I guess he probably sold it for scrap metal somewhere, but maybe he didn't and its still in his cart cause we don't get to see the contents when they leave Rubihiegen. any ideas?

[judgment26]

As for the battle equipment that had been the cause of all this, after considering the difficulty of transporting the goods in the winter season as well as the possibility that the crash of its market price would be even more severe farther north, Lawrence ended up selling the equipment in Rubinhagen at next-to-nothing prices.

That's quoted from my own translation of chapter 1, Vol. 3. Really not much of a spoiler, but I'll be considerate.;)

[RayzorFang]

Thanks for being considerate Judge, even though its a not much of a spoiler i'm not going to read it, hopefully others will, so as to not waste the effort you put in your post.

[HandofFate]

Lawrence's been tricked, now in debt because of the credit, and each person who he thought had owed to him (meaning a future receivables for him) rejected and/or refused to bail him out. Finally the last person who he had hoped willing to help flatly shun him because he sees Lawrence manage to pick some hooker from the street.



ohh!! So is that the reason why he snapped at Lawrence?
I didn't get the connoation from the subs, but he thought Lawrence was just asking for money to pay for her?

[sacundim]

wait a minute I dont get it.......
how can they sell the credit to another company ?


(Yeah, I know this is a super-late reply...)

You're overthinking it. Lawrence incurs 47 Lumione debt to Latoperion (sp?), which he uses to buy armor at the market price. Latoperion know that the market is about to crash, so they quickly comply; their loss, as they account it, is the price of the sets of armor, which they knowknow they won't be able to sell for anything nearly as much as 47 Lumione.

Now, the debt that Lawrence owes to Latoperion can be sold to Remerio. This just means that Latoperion, instead of waiting for Lawrence to pay the 47 Lumione, gets Remerio to pay X amount to Latoperion now, in exchange for Lawrence's future payment of 47 Lumione (or in the case Lawrence can't pay up, anything that the creditor recovers).

How much are Latoperion willing to sell Lawrence's 47 Lumione loan for? Since they expect he won't be able to pay back the 47 Lumione, they should be willing to accept something like the value of all of his belongings, and if debt bondage exists in their society, the value at which he can be sold as a debt slave.

So suppose Remerio don't know that the armor market is going to crash. Latoperion can then sell them the 47 Lumione loan at a "good" price, say, 42 Lumione, by pretending that they have cash flow problems and need hard currency really fast. If Remerio buy the story, well, from their point of view they're making an easy 5 Lumione: they pay Latoperion 42 Lumione, and then Lawrence comes around and gives them 47 Lumione worth of armor which settles the debt.

If Remerio knows the armor market is going to crash, then Latoperion can't trick them like that, but they can still sell the debt at some value close to Remerio's estimate of Lawrence's net worth. Latoperion is willing to sell the debt because (a) they're not going to recover the 47 Lumione anyway, (b) conducting the bankruptcy proceedings is probably costly and risky is in Rubinheigen; Latoperion probably doesn't have the resources to prevent Lawrence from escaping from them, while Remerio probably can enforce the debt collection there. So Latoperion then sells the debt to Remerio at a discount to the estimate of Lawrence's net worth, and Remerio buys it because it expects to profit by collecting all of Lawrence's possessions (and possibly from selling him into slavery).