Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Pellissier]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Shakugan no Shana II, Episode 21.

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[Rasuberi]

I can't wait for next week already, and I just finished watching this weeks...
So looks like a "big thing" will happen next week, yeay! Though it makes me very curious as to how they plan on ending this season.

This week was also good. Yoshida was of some help, Wilhelmina awesome again, and some Shana being like Shana for the first time in a long time. It's funny how drastically the animation quality changes between the action scenes and the daily life scenes. >>;

[Arnaiyus]

Yes, at last screenies are up! Screens :O (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2008/03/06/shakugan-no-shana-ii-21/). Here's hoping I can watch it on nico soon enough ;)

[CapoExecutor]

I can't believe I dropped my jaw in seeing Wilhelmina wrapped up in those ribbons of hers and I don't know why.

[teachopvutru]

Yes, at last screenies are up! Screens :O (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2008/03/06/shakugan-no-shana-ii-21/). Here's hoping I can watch it on nico soon enough ;)

Judgin from the screenshot (and since the blog says so as well), it looks like the fight with Sabrac is over in this episode. I see dere Shana (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Shakugan%20no%20Shana/Shakugan%20no%20Shana%20II%20-%2021%20-%20Large%2036.jpg) on lower right though, wonder what happens. (yell for confession, though it most likely isn't that)

And from that blog as well, this screenshot (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Shakugan%20no%20Shana/Shana%20Gundam%20Comparison.jpg) made me laugh... :heh:

[piku]

SHAKUGAN NO SHANA II THE END

okey, that's not true. but i can say that the episode is the most amazing ever in this anime - although last episode is amazing enough. this episode may be a very good episode if as a final episode.

very good balance on the following:
drawing style (generally over the standard althougt it can be even better)
BGM (especially the scene playing OP1 of SnS 2)
script (very satisfied on the story include battles, tactics, teamwork / relationship between characters and love, a little bit daily life, nice reference to the original story)
Special effects of battle scens (almost perfect for the one on B part)

the one that may not really good enough is the description on wilhelmina and johan, and their relationship related to the crack on stigma is missing.
also they don't even touch on wilhelmina fight with sabrac is revenged of her dearest friends , johan and pheles, according to the original novelepisode 22 will be a nice episode about boys and girls (and one of the guardian) , and what they (planed to) do in the Christmas eve. it should be an end but a begining of the original ending of SnS2...

[Arnaiyus]

Finished watching and holy crap that was awesome. It looks like Sabrac is defeated (though he may come back, who knows) and everyone is like "thank god it's over". Really feels like nothing else is left, but of course we know that something big is happening soon enough :heh:. I'm not going into the details too much, but this episode was truly about everyone working together and wtfpwing Sabrac at his own game. A really good ending to his appearance.

[Rembr]

PANTY SHOT AMG
amg slice of life next week?!
Well, they went at it. Is this the peak or is there something left?

[ashlay]

Too bad Margery's character development turned out to be a bust, but at least Sato got to sound kinda cool. Well, I guess the main point of this episode was the battle against Sabrac, which was all very fun to watch. Throwing in the first opening really made this feel like the final battle of the series.

Speaking of which, there's 3 episodes left, and I can't help but think that everything going "back to normal" at the end of this episode (urusai urusai urusai included. >_>) is a sign that whatever the anime's got planned, everything's about to go terribly wrong. Still, This kind of build up and release is what makes SnS SnS, so even relationship material on it's own would be welcome after the Sabrac fight.

[Shiroth]

Would people mind using spoiler tags?

[Iggy_Pop]

So, how did Shana kill Sabrac?

[cnnydz]

^ lifted a huge chunk of the city and obliterated everything with a big fireball

[CapoExecutor]

No offense, but don't you think that putting those novel spoilers here will catch the attention of the moderators?

[serenade_beta]

-Ahaha, I thought Yuuji would find something in the sewer, but he just pops up near Shana and Kazumi. :heh:

-Eyecatch was good!

Very good episode! :)
The action was great! Especially liked that spell Margery used to pull up the land.
All of the characters get to do some part in the fight too!
Sabrac was defeated completely after they pulled up the land, and all is well!
But it just seems so "final episode"-ish... Yet we still have more to go.

Preview: Christmas Eve; Oh boy... I nearly had a heart attack when the preview said that Shana and Kazumi were going to write Yuuji a letter...

Yoohoo~ stop with the novel spoilers~

[Malintex_Terek]

Haven't seen the episode yet, but knowing Yuuji wasn't the one to beat Sabrac (is he even dead? It's supposed to be impossible to tell) earns an instant 6 score from me, with further deductions depending on the quality of the episode. That's horribly disappointing. :(

I've got to say, after the outrageously bad Zero no Tsukaima II, I think J.C. Staff is starting to show themselves off as incompetent. They squeezed the entire Sabrac fight into just two episodes, and they're going to combine all of volume sixteen into two as well and end with a cliffhanger (lame!). Considering the inane harem love-triangle bit from earlier, this anime has, on the whole, is failing.

I also must ask; where's the budget? :eyebrow: Almost every episode in season I had big fights, a strong mix between good quality art and animation. This whole season seems to put more emphasis on the OP artwork and the bad singing than the actual content of the episodes; both Sabrac episodes and Margery's flash-back seem to be the only ones with any serious battles, and that's only like five total...compared with, twenty two or so from the first season? :|

If Yuuji doesn't 8:52 up to GAR status by the end of the show, I'm have to consider putting J.C. Staff on my black-list.

[serenade_beta]

How are these novel spoilers? didn't this happen in the anime?

Anime viewers don't know this.
The anime only shows
Sabrac disappearing into Shana's flames.

[Sterling01]

Anime viewers don't know this.
The anime only shows
Sabrac disappearing into Shana's flames.
Oh wow... I feel sad now

[minhtam1638]

I've got to say, after the outrageously bad Zero no Tsukaima II, I think J.C. Staff is starting to show themselves off as incompetent. They squeezed the entire Sabrac fight into just two episodes, and they're going to combine all of volume sixteen into two as well and end with a cliffhanger (lame!). Considering the inane harem love-triangle bit from earlier, this anime has, on the whole, is failing.

I also must ask; where's the budget? :eyebrow: Almost every episode in season I had big fights, a strong mix between good quality art and animation. This whole season seems to put more emphasis on the OP artwork and the bad singing than the actual content of the episodes; both Sabrac episodes and Margery's flash-back seem to be the only ones with any serious battles, and that's only like five total...compared with, twenty two or so from the first season? :|

If Yuuji doesn't 8:52 up to GAR status by the end of the show, I'm have to consider putting J.C. Staff on my black-list.

Without even watching this episode yet, I'm going to go out and try to defend J.C. Staff on this one.

I'm forced to agree that Zero no Tsukaima II was just outright outrageous and completely disappointing. No excuse.

However, when you're taking an unfinished series and try to adapt it into an animation, you're just bound to have trouble. Look at the fan response J.C. Staff received from Season 1. With a huge increase in popularity and satisfaction comes with a huge price - the pressure to keep those fans satisfied. And with only eight of the 16+ novels covered, there is no excuse not to have a Season 2.

How long did it take to produce Season 1? Personally, I don't know. But what I do know is that with the large amount of fan response and the pressure that came with it, J.C. Staff was locked into a situation where they must develop a second season within less than a year. The result is as you see here: a decent but below-expectations anime with some pretty awesome highlighting moments but an overall rush job.

Can you really blame J.C. Staff for being "incompetent"? Probably not. The decision to have a second season was necessary. Did it need to be only a year apart, I definitely think not. However, with Shana's large fanbase (as evidenced in the many Saimoe contests that I analytically cover), it's not exactly easy to say it will be one season and done, especially with the cliffhanger left at the end of Season 1. There's the force that gives off the pressure.

And it's not like they had a clear direction of where they were going: the novels have yet to be finished. However, one could argue that there was enough content to create a second season.

With the limited amount of time they had to work on SnS II, they first have to prepare some sort of backup story. That's where the Fumina Konoe arc comes in. Although it does play a part to the Season 1 ending arc with Hecate synchronizing memories and such, everyone, myself included, says that this was taken to far. This is rather justifiable. Let's say Fumina doesn't exist - that no "filler" arc existed at all. Given their budget that they would have saved, they may or may not extend arcs to have a longer span of episodes and improved on the qualities. But what if the Sabrac arc finished in episode 18 and they aren't prepared to come up with the most climatic arc to close out the final six episodes? That, in my opinion, is much worse than what J.C. Staff has presented us with.

And when dealing with the budget, last I checked, Shana 1 didn't have a Naruto or Pokemon primetime slot - rather, it had a post-midnight slot. If you think about it, many high schoolers who are anime freaks would probably be in bed right about now getting ready for school. TV ratings weren't high at all, so the budget was low to begin with.

Sure, it can be much more improved. But what choice did J.C. Staff have? Who anticipated that Shakugan no Shana would have as much success as we could have seen? If I recall, there wasn't a Shana subforum when Season 1 aired. Heck, I don't think there were that many Shana novel fans that watch anime in general. Given how this played out at the end of Season 1, I really don't see an alternative solution in this case that can be played out better than it can now.

[Sterling01]

Actualy IMO if they took longer then 2 episodes to show the Sabrac battle I would of been pissed as the battle in the novel 14 wasn't that long ether.

[minhtam1638]

Actualy IMO if they took longer then 2 episodes to show the Sabrac battle I would of been pissed as the battle in the novel 14 wasn't that long ether.

The battle in novel 14 is comprised entirely out of text and pays no correlation to time whatsoever (unless it states minutes, seconds, etc.), so I guess you can argue that it deserved to be longer. Of course, then the battle itself would just be a violent version of the Fumina arc.

[Owaranai Destiny]

This is starting to sound a little more like the Gundam 00 threads.

Possible plotholes after going into detail? Check.
Bashing the animators and the series for those? Check.

I don't know how the staff in J.C Animation felt while they went about with Season 2, but I'd agree with minhtam2448 that there is a possibility Season 2 could be rushed, resulting in below-par quality of animation. It's kind of hard to criticise them too, especially when you're NOT working in the same line and know how it feels like being hard-pressed to release the episodes.

That being said, I was somewhat bemused by the turn of events that might have possibly happened in this episode, since it might contradicts my assumption that Sabrac was toying with Wilhelmina in the previous episode and considering Sabrac lived for only two episodes. Some villain, relying on his power instead of his brains. :heh:

[aroduc]

Silly insert songs are silly

c80W-qUdwzE

And I find it hilarious personally whenever people spazz out over ZOMG JCSTAFF ARE DEAD TO ME AFTER ZERO AND SHANA. Even if those two were simply godawful, they only had... what... three other awesome shows last year? How dare their awesome to not-awesome ratio be only 50%? Can you imagine if Gonzo or Deen had that kind of success rate? :p

[teachopvutru]

And I find it hilarious personally whenever people spazz out over ZOMG JCSTAFF ARE DEAD TO ME AFTER ZERO AND SHANA. Even if those two were simply godawful, they only had... what... three other awesome shows last year? How dare their awesome to not-awesome ration be only 50%? Can you imagine if Gonzo or Deen had that kind of success rate? :p

Well, it's probably because Zero and Shana are pretty popular and people have high expectations of them. Personally, I think Zero II was awful, but I won't say the same to Shana II. That's not to say I'm not to the least slightly disappointed, though. From the novel's spoiler, I previously thought that Shana II would turn out to be a lot more epic and emotional than it currently is. However, that simply is from too high of an expectation, I suppose.

Or maybe it's because I'm starting to follow anime weekly, as oppose to marathon like in the past. I actually enjoy a series less if I have to wait weekly for it, unless that series has comedy in it.

[relentlessflame]

No offense, but don't you think that putting those novel spoilers here will catch the attention of the moderators?Yes, it will. I added a whole bunch of spoiler tags, but please don't expect us to do that next time. Posting novel spoilers in an episode thread is a "bannable offense".

So, remember: 1) spoiling future events is not allowed, ever (even in spoiler tags), and 2) if it didn't happen in the anime, use spoiler tags (and make sure to say what the spoilers are from).

[Mai Kawasumi]

I love this episode :D full of action!

"urusai! urusai! urusai! ~ ahhh... music for my ears ~

[CapoExecutor]

Silly insert songs are silly

c80W-qUdwzE



They could've tried putting the last forty seconds of Overture 1928 when Shana attacked Sabrac instead.

[Deathscyther]

Great episode. The action was very good and I loved the JOINT song in the climax as well. In my opinion it fitted the scene. This episode did have a final season episode feeling, especially with the inserted song.

But yeah, some parts of this season seemed kind of disappointing, but there were good parts in the season as well. Better to have the Konoe arc spread out over the first few episodes and in the end weaving it together with the canon stuff, then some stupid filler arc in the last few episodes, right?

I agree, season 1 was better than season 2. Probably because it was new to us and there was lots of action. And I think that some people watched it more for the action than for the story behind it.

But I wouldn't say that season 2 was disappointing. I liked the whole season except some of the Konoe arc episodes and the screwed up the love-triangle a bit. But besides that, they did a good job. They handled the canon-stuff pretty good in my opinion. Although the fights were short, they were pretty well handled. The animation was less good in the fight scenes sometimes, but that's because of the low budget probably.

And well, people who are complaining about there being more action in season 1 than in season 2. The novels they animated in season 2 had less action than the first ones, because this season was mostly used to drive the plot forward. Focusing on the side characters (Tanake, Keisaku, Yoshida, Wilhelmina, Yuji's parents...and of course Yuji himself), flashbacks (margery and Yuri), the love-triangle, the silver, and some other things which I'm not going to name here.

While in season one we got straight into the action with Friagne, and then Margery, and then the twins, while the world of SnS was slowly explored during the fights. Don't forget...the balle masque fights in the final episodes in season 1 were filler as well.

So overal, I think they did a good job with the time/money they had to animate this season. And don't forget, it's not over yet. We've still got a few episodes to go.

And we finally saw Yoshida doing something important as well! =D
This Yoshida is much better than the emo-yoshida.

[ThoHell]

Yuji was awesome....nuff said! Oh and Sabrac.....is one insane monster, I don't think any other opponent could have taken on so many opponents by themselves.

[lua thien]

About time she finally said the triple urusai after twenty episodes.

They could've tried putting the last forty seconds of Overture 1928 when Shana attacked Sabrac instead.

Now there's an idea for the english dub but this comes from a Dream Theater fan.:D

The JOINT track would've been better if it was just instrumental because hearing Kawada Mami sing that during a big fight seems...

...unsuited for the occasion.

[Deathkillz]

What the heck happened to the king of haxx?

Sabrac failed me for going easy on them ;___;

The fight was good even if it kills all logic on how strong the rest of the gang are for holding out for so long. :heh:

Margery was pretty cool and the insert OP fitted the scene...for the first 40 secs :rolleyes:

The preview doesn't look good for the story...seems like they are leaving it for season 3 or something -__-

Highlight...zomg shana says urusai x3 at last! :O

[ThoHell]

About time she finally said the triple urusai after twenty episodes.



Now there's an idea for the english dub but this comes from a Dream Theater fan.:D

The JOINT track would've been better if it was just instrumental because hearing Kawada Mami sing that during a big fight seems...

...unsuited for the occasion.
Yeah, the triple shut up is something I haven't heard in awhile. I was like oh....it's back!

[Deathscyther]

Yeah, I was surprised with the triple Urusai as well, but happy nonetheless:p
I think this was used to show that everything's going back to normal again...to the peaceful days...

or at least..to make you think that

[Kinny Riddle]

Just after I thought last episode was amazing, this was jaw dropping it's hard to believe this isn't the last episode.

Pity Sabrac lasted only two episodes, he was too powerful a "boss" for his own good.

What the heck happened to the king of haxx?

Sabrac failed me for going easy on them ;___;

His "haxx" was snuffed out by Yuji and Margery, and Shana duly incinerated him, as well as all the other unfortunate motionless souls inside the Fuuzetsu. :heh:

Though they mostly had no idea they had already died once the Fuuzetsu was patched up. They should be thankful they didn't end up as Torches.

(It looks like "death" via the "good old fashioned physical way" in a Fuuzetsu can be undone, as no PoE was taken away forcefully. Denizens seem to need to trigger a specific process in order to steal a human's PoE and turn him into a Torch. )

Highlight...zomg shana says urusai x3 at last! :O

Quoted for Truth. Finally! This just isn't Shana without her trademark line.


Next episode seems to be another calm before the storm, as Yuji becomes resolved to stay and protect his city, come what may.

[serenade_beta]

Christmas Eve

The last day of the 2nd school term.
Ike Hayato was making a certain decision.
That he had to act to put a conclusion to his feelings, even though he knows that Kazumi likes Yuuji.
That evening, to put a conclusion to her own feelings as well, Kazumi meets up with Shana, who had the same feelings.
It's scary, but they will have Yuuji choose one of them.
On the other side, Satou Keisaku had finished choosing and come to a conclusion.
In regards to Margery's answer to his question in the middle of fighting Sabrac, it turned into a resolute purpose, he decides to borrow his father's power that he had never wanted to borrow no matter what, and declares to Margery, "I want to work at Outlaw."
Yuuji's will was strengthened as well.
His father, Kantarou, who had come home urgently declares good news.
This truth pushes him onwards.
"I want to protect this world."

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/22_01.jpg <--Oh no...

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/22_02.jpg <--this could get bad...

Seems my fears will come true after all... :(:uhoh:

[cnnydz]

^oh no not the letters, what are they going to do with the last two episodes

[Malintex_Terek]

I just saw it. I guess I was a bit hasty on the judgments, but the episode did look very choppy - the animation consisted of short cycling frames and were mostly illustrating the wind blowing, which was unnecessary. Art-wise it was all over the place, off-model designs in one seen OK ones in others.

I'm still unsure of what happened, but nevertheless I'm still rather disappointed.

Oh and Sabrac.....is one insane monster, I don't think any other opponent could have taken on so many opponents by themselves.

There's one other who can...:heh:

[Deathkillz]

His "haxx" was snuffed out by Yuji and Margery, and Shana duly incinerated him, as well as all the other unfortunate motionless souls inside the Fuuzetsu. :heh:

I'm rather annoyed by this loop hole...normally when people die they remain dead. But with yuji around, it is like a walking life giver (Jesus!) :rolleyes:

Whilst there isn't anything to argue about, it is still hard to swallow how he can heal the whole town effortlessly :rolleyes:

Christmas Eve

The last day of the 2nd school term.
Ike Hayato was making a certain decision.
That he had to act to put a conclusion to his feelings, even though he knows that Kazumi likes Yuuji.
That evening, to put a conclusion to her own feelings as well, Kazumi meets up with Shana, who had the same feelings.
It's scary, but they will have Yuuji choose one of them.
On the other side, Satou Keisaku had finished choosing and come to a conclusion.
In regards to Margery's answer to his question in the middle of fighting Sabrac, it turned into a resolute purpose, he decides to borrow his father's power that he had never wanted to borrow no matter what, and declares to Margery, "I want to work at Outlaw."
Yuuji's will was strengthened as well.
His father, Kantarou, who had come home urgently declares good news.
This truth pushes him onwards.
"I want to protect this world."

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/22_01.jpg <--Oh no...

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/22_02.jpg <--this could get bad...

Seems my fears will come true after all... :(:uhoh:
-______-

Season 3 of "yuji no harem" here we come...

[Deathscyther]

-______-

Season 3 of "yuji no harem" here we come...

I don't think so.
I think they'll have something else in store for us than the harem.

[Kiyoru]

Wow, is it me or was this episode released super fast? I only just got episode 20 a few days ago..

[Sterling01]

Christmas Eve

The last day of the 2nd school term.
Ike Hayato was making a certain decision.
That he had to act to put a conclusion to his feelings, even though he knows that Kazumi likes Yuuji.
That evening, to put a conclusion to her own feelings as well, Kazumi meets up with Shana, who had the same feelings.
It's scary, but they will have Yuuji choose one of them.
On the other side, Satou Keisaku had finished choosing and come to a conclusion.
In regards to Margery's answer to his question in the middle of fighting Sabrac, it turned into a resolute purpose, he decides to borrow his father's power that he had never wanted to borrow no matter what, and declares to Margery, "I want to work at Outlaw."
Yuuji's will was strengthened as well.
His father, Kantarou, who had come home urgently declares good news.
This truth pushes him onwards.
"I want to protect this world."

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/22_01.jpg <--Oh no...

http://www.shakugan.com/story/img/2nd_ss/22_02.jpg <--this could get bad...

Seems my fears will come true after all... :(:uhoh:
hahahahahaahaha Finally I cant wait... It's going to be the best episode this season... Don't fuck it Up J.C

[Ratix]

Without even watching this episode yet, I'm going to go out and try to defend J.C. Staff on this one.

I'm forced to agree that Zero no Tsukaima II was just outright outrageous and completely disappointing. No excuse.

However, when you're taking an unfinished series and try to adapt it into an animation, you're just bound to have trouble. Look at the fan response J.C. Staff received from Season 1. With a huge increase in popularity and satisfaction comes with a huge price - the pressure to keep those fans satisfied. And with only eight of the 16+ novels covered, there is no excuse not to have a Season 2.

How long did it take to produce Season 1? Personally, I don't know. But what I do know is that with the large amount of fan response and the pressure that came with it, J.C. Staff was locked into a situation where they must develop a second season within less than a year. The result is as you see here: a decent but below-expectations anime with some pretty awesome highlighting moments but an overall rush job.

Can you really blame J.C. Staff for being "incompetent"? Probably not. The decision to have a second season was necessary. Did it need to be only a year apart, I definitely think not. However, with Shana's large fanbase (as evidenced in the many Saimoe contests that I analytically cover), it's not exactly easy to say it will be one season and done, especially with the cliffhanger left at the end of Season 1. There's the force that gives off the pressure.

And it's not like they had a clear direction of where they were going: the novels have yet to be finished. However, one could argue that there was enough content to create a second season.

With the limited amount of time they had to work on SnS II, they first have to prepare some sort of backup story. That's where the Fumina Konoe arc comes in. Although it does play a part to the Season 1 ending arc with Hecate synchronizing memories and such, everyone, myself included, says that this was taken to far. This is rather justifiable. Let's say Fumina doesn't exist - that no "filler" arc existed at all. Given their budget that they would have saved, they may or may not extend arcs to have a longer span of episodes and improved on the qualities. But what if the Sabrac arc finished in episode 18 and they aren't prepared to come up with the most climatic arc to close out the final six episodes? That, in my opinion, is much worse than what J.C. Staff has presented us with.

And when dealing with the budget, last I checked, Shana 1 didn't have a Naruto or Pokemon primetime slot - rather, it had a post-midnight slot. If you think about it, many high schoolers who are anime freaks would probably be in bed right about now getting ready for school. TV ratings weren't high at all, so the budget was low to begin with.

Sure, it can be much more improved. But what choice did J.C. Staff have? Who anticipated that Shakugan no Shana would have as much success as we could have seen? If I recall, there wasn't a Shana subforum when Season 1 aired. Heck, I don't think there were that many Shana novel fans that watch anime in general. Given how this played out at the end of Season 1, I really don't see an alternative solution in this case that can be played out better than it can now.

Not an excuse to rush Season 2...

Just look at Haruhi. They certainly took their time to make a season 2.

[Malintex_Terek]

Just look at Haruhi. They certainly took their time to make a season 2.

Quoting this for truth. Shana is J.C. Staff's flagship property, the largest money-maker in a while, with not only two seasons but OVA's, a movie and (possibly) more movies to come. It should be their most polished anime since so many people are going to it for not just the story, but the artwork, actors/actresses and so many other things; cheapening out on it just ruins the show's reputation and hurts chances for more, like Fate/stay night.

[arkxkra]

good episode. The fighting was really nice.

next episode, christmas eve, i thought won't have christmas.

[kyoulover]

Well...although i may say this is a great ep...

still...something's wrong...

never thought they can beat that kaijin sabrac very fast :heh:

hope SnS 2nd not as bad as ZnT II :heh:

[Owaranai Destiny]

Not an excuse to rush Season 2...

Just look at Haruhi. They certainly took their time to make a season 2.

Quoting this for truth. Shana is J.C. Staff's flagship property, the largest money-maker in a while, with not only two seasons but OVA's, a movie and (possibly) more movies to come. It should be their most polished anime since so many people are going to it for not just the story, but the artwork, actors/actresses and so many other things; cheapening out on it just ruins the show's reputation and hurts chances for more, like Fate/stay night.

Wait just a minute. You're talking about Haruhi Season 2, is that it?

Anyway, this goes to comparing studios, since Haruhi's dragged in as an example to show how "incompetent" J.C staff are. While I'm not exactly the happiest SnS II watcher, believing that the quality could be better, that doesn't mean J.C and KyoAni have the same quality of staff, same amount of budget given to them and the same mindsets.

[Malintex_Terek]

Wait just a minute. You're talking about Haruhi Season 2, is that it?


Just comparisons. Haruhi is Kyoto Animation's flagship property, their most popular title. Even considering Lucky Trash's success, Haruhi was the trigger and SII will no doubt top the first and LS's sales. So Kyoto Animation is taking pains to make it look good, since many people are going to buy it for reasons other than the story. Shana is J.C. Staff's equivalent to Haruhi, the defining show of the whole studio.

[ashlay]

Not an excuse to rush Season 2...

Just look at Haruhi. They certainly took their time to make a season 2.

Quoting this for truth. Shana is J.C. Staff's flagship property, the largest money-maker in a while, with not only two seasons but OVA's, a movie and (possibly) more movies to come. It should be their most polished anime since so many people are going to it for not just the story, but the artwork, actors/actresses and so many other things; cheapening out on it just ruins the show's reputation and hurts chances for more, like Fate/stay night.
you forget that KyoAni's other shows have done well enough that they don't need to make another season of Haruhi until they feel like it.

if KyoAni's other properties had the sales figures of J.C. properties, Haruhi would have been rushed too. But of course Kanon has like twice the sales figures of SnS 1, Lucky star has 3 times the sales of SnS 1, Clannad has twice the sales of SnS 1, and even before Haruhi, air had about twice the sales figures of SnS 1. In fact, the only shows KyoAni has made that have sold worse than ANY J.C properties is FMP shows. (never gonna see those again)


It's a foolish comparison, because KyoAni makes enough money to do as they please, while J.C. staff doesn't. Producers expect results, even if it means turning out inferior products. It's exactly because it's a money maker that Shana 2 got rushed.

[minhtam1638]

ashlay nearly stole the words out of my mouth. You can't compare Haruhi with Shana solely because of the before-and-after productions of their respective producers. ashlay made a case in point for Kyoto Animation's side, so now let me give you J.C. Staff's side.

If you think back to J.C.'s previous productions from 1/1/2003 to SnS I, you would see basically no-name animations that couldn't make top just because they are defeated even before AIR was released:

Nanaka 6/17 (2003)
Mahou Tsukai ni Taisetsu na Koto (2003)
Gunparade March ~Aratanaru Kougunka~ (2003)
Ikki Tousen (2003)
R.O.D -THE TV- (2003)
Shingetsutan Tsukihime (2003)
Ai Yori Aoshi ~Enishi~ (2003)
Maburaho (2003)
Sensei no Ojikan: Doki Doki School Hours (2004)
Hikari to Mizu no Daphne -Daphne in the Brilliant Blue- (2004)
Bōkyaku no Senritsu (2004) (a.k.a. Melody of Oblivion)
Oku-sama wa Mahō Shōjo (2005)
Karin (2005)
Gokujou Seitokai (2005)

If you think about it, these weren't successful at all, so however good they really are in terms of storyline, animation, whatever, they were pretty much planned one and done.

Shakugan no Shana turned out to be the dramatic increasing climax of J.C.'s career, and because of this, many decided to watch their preceding runs. Honey and Clover made an impact as well, and that may as well have led to a second season, planned or not planned. But, because of SnS and ultimately Zero no Tsukaima's success, J.C.'s plans may have changed in order to keep the small number of fans that they have. With that kind of pressure, what more can you expect than a decrease in quality?

[Ratix]

The point is, I believe you may have misunderstood, that you said Shana 2 has to be rushed because Shana 1 was a success. Which doesn't make sense.

Haruhi is just an example of how that doesn't necessary need to occur.

In this case, its just a bad decision made by J.C. Staff.

Well, not that I mind but I personally prefer to see it follow the novel thoroughly from start to end though.

[cnnydz]

^did you actually read the posts before yours, because Shana 1 was a success, jc staff rushed shana 2 in order to cash in some profit quickly (as their other titles are not doing as well as shana). while KyoAni has other titles that has done just as well if not better than haruhi, so they didn't need to rush the second season to get some cash. in the end of the day it all comes down to money, if jc staff didn't rush sns 2 and znt 2, they would have a pretty bad year.

[CapoExecutor]

Is there anyone in this series that fills the anti-hero role by any chance? Just a curious question.

[Sterling01]

Is there anyone in this series that fills the anti-hero role by any chance? Just a curious question.
Not yet....

[ashlay]

Not yet....
What about Wilhelmina?

[Sterling01]

Wilhelmina is an anti-hero?

[Gotank]

What is the exact definition of an 'anti-hero'...?

[Tokkan]

What is the exact definition of an 'anti-hero'...?

A hero who lacks a moral code, and normally has the attitude of a battle scarred badass.

[Sterling01]

From Wikipedia

In fiction, an anti-hero is a protagonist who is lacking the traditional heroic attributes and qualities, and instead possesses character traits that are antithetical to heroism.

[The Real Nemo]

Those descriptions would fit pretty much any Flame Haze, including Shana in the early part of the series...

[ashlay]

Wilhelmina is an anti-hero?
whoops, meant Margery. >_>

[Malintex_Terek]

Those descriptions would fit pretty much any Flame Haze, including Shana in the early part of the series...

...not really. Anti-heroes are characters who act like villains (or have the traits commonly associated with a villain) yet are for various reasons aligned on the side of the protagonists. The Flame Haze are very firmly set in the ordinary hero category.

There is a significant anti-hero in Shana but he hasn't shown up yet. Here's a hint (http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/671/ballmasquetl5.jpg).

[Machina]

A hero who lacks a moral code, and normally has the attitude of a battle scarred badass.

Sounds a lot like Margery to me.

[Darknemo2000]

I agree with cnnydz about the reasons why JC staff rushed the SnS 2 and ZnT 2, however, I do not think they will be getting that much of profit from ZnT 2 season - the drop of quality in second season turn quite a few numbers of ZNT 1 season fans off. Thus the income isn't as high as one could have been expecting after the success of season one, so rushing the ZnT 2 is hardly that profitable. Nor japanese nor other anime fans are that stupid to pay much for the rushed crap that ZnT 2 turned out to be.

It still roles on the + side but not by much

On the other hand - terrible 2 season of ZNT increased the popularity of novels, right now in japanese market the Znt Novels are on a very high roll, as many people turn back to novels after the failure of second season.

As far as SnS goes - it is one of the most profitable projects of JC staff, maybe the most profitable, even the second season though rushed at some points is just as popular as the first one was. And the income, as far as I know, are pretty good from it and look promising in the future as well.

So yeah, SnS 2 rushing did payed off for JC Staff, but ZnT 2 was not really that good in terms of income.

As for other complaining about second SnS season - sure it could have been better, but again it could have been worse (something like ZnT 2). So far I think it is an average season, has bads has goods.

And about KyoAni - well this studio produce much higher quality than JC Staff will ever be able to. thats why their projects are so successful, and thats why they can wait more before releasing another season - they are just much better studio than JC Staff.

[The Real Nemo]

...not really. Anti-heroes are characters who act like villains (or have the traits commonly associated with a villain) yet are for various reasons aligned on the side of the protagonists. The Flame Haze are very firmly set in the ordinary hero category.

There is a significant anti-hero in Shana but he hasn't shown up yet. Here's a hint (http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/671/ballmasquetl5.jpg).
Flame Haze in general have been portrayed as perfectly willing to sacrifice a few people here and there for the sake of their mission to keep the balance between the worlds, even Shana demonstrated this early on during the Friagne arc. That seems pretty anti-hero to me.

[Malintex_Terek]

That seems pretty anti-hero to me.

Only if you rank the Flame Haze up against ridiculous Gundam SEED standards. An anti-hero has to have villainous characteristics, not something like that is usually done for the greater good.

An anti-hero would:

1. Sacrifice many people for the few.
2. Sacrifice 100 people to save 100 people.

A villain would:

3. Sacrifice people for no particular reason or a false one.

The powers of the Quincy in Bleach are something an anti-hero would have. They save humans by killing off Hollows, but they risk spiritual balance since they actually destroy the spirits, though they don't care. This is compared to the Shinigami powers which only seal spirits.

[The Real Nemo]

Only if you rank the Flame Haze up against ridiculous Gundam SEED standards. An anti-hero has to have villainous characteristics, not something like that is usually done for the greater good.

An anti-hero would:

1. Sacrifice many people for the few.
2. Sacrifice 100 people to save 100 people.

A villain would:

3. Sacrifice people for no particular reason or a false one.

The powers of the Quincy in Bleach are something an anti-hero would have. They save humans by killing off Hollows, but they risk spiritual balance since they actually destroy the spirits, though they don't care. This is compared to the Shinigami powers which only seal spirits.
An anti-hero doesn't necessarily have to have villainous characteristics, just ones that are adverse to traditional heroism. I don't know about you, but I would never consider someone who treats human life the way most Flame Haze do to be heroic.

[Proto]

According to Dungeons and Dragons alignment lore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_neutral) I'd put most flame haze's somewhere between lawful neutral (with some having some chaotic tendencies, but still lawful, like Margery), since in most of their cases they care nothing about the greater good, and just about maintaining the balance (aka the order). I wouldn't put the Guze no Tomogara in the evil alignment though (at least not in their entirety, and just put them as chaotic beings, being more neutral than evil in term of Good/Evil axis. In fact, the war in Shakugan no Shana has always stroken me more as Lawful vs Chaos rather than Good vs Evil. Meaning that by the nature of the plot we get a lot of antivillians and antiheroes rather than pure villians or heroes in this show.

[CapoExecutor]

There's always been a lot of gray and nothing is ever in black and white regarding the Guze as a whole.

The perspectives regarding the goals being taken upon by the Flame Hazes, the Balle Masque, and the other players conflict with each other on and off.

Question would be on who the real bad guys are. Perhaps there aren't any or they have yet to reveal themselves.

For now, the fog of war containing the anti-heroes and anti-villians isn't very clear.

[Kristen]

...



That was basically my reaction at the end of this episode. In other words, this was quite possibly the best episode of the entire series, including Season 1.
The battle choreography for one of the first times this season was believable, was definately moving in the right direction, and kept me on my chair the entire time.
There was only 1 of the overly dramatic moments in the entire episode (New low for SII), and even that was shaky ground.
The explanation of the plot was phenomenal, almost Death Note level.
And the best thing about this episode: The background music. The selection of the music was absolutely amazing, and it made me almost burst out in joy a couple times.

Other good things about this episode was a very strong Kazumi showing, and Shana NOT confessing. Especially at the end, I definately saw some love between Kazumi and Yuji, but nothing from Yuji's end with Shana. :)

There is no way I can give this episode anything less than a 10. That may be the first of the series for me, I'm not sure.

I guess the last 3 will be about the silver and finishing up the love story, since I don't think JC Staff would want to try a season 3 with so little material left.

[Midonin]

That was EPIC. Shana's sudden appearance in battle, seeing so much cooperation and effort...playing "JOINT" on top of it all just made it perfect. Even better was that it ended with Shana's "Urusai, urusai, urusai!". I really missed hearing her say that. Wonderful episode all around really.

10/10

[DeotoxSlayer]

...



That was basically my reaction at the end of this episode. In other words, this was quite possibly the best episode of the entire series, including Season 1.
The battle choreography for one of the first times this season was believable, was definately moving in the right direction, and kept me on my chair the entire time.
There was only 1 of the overly dramatic moments in the entire episode (New low for SII), and even that was shaky ground.
The explanation of the plot was phenomenal, almost Death Note level.
And the best thing about this episode: The background music. The selection of the music was absolutely amazing, and it made me almost burst out in joy a couple times.

Other good things about this episode was a very strong Kazumi showing, and Shana NOT confessing. Especially at the end, I definately saw some love between Kazumi and Yuji, but nothing from Yuji's end with Shana. :)

There is no way I can give this episode anything less than a 10. That may be the first of the series for me, I'm not sure.

I guess the last 3 will be about the silver and finishing up the love story, since I don't think JC Staff would want to try a season 3 with so little material left.

I personally don't see the love story being finished yet, I mean J.C has to wait patiently for more novels to be published so that they can make a Season 3, they could make an anime original ending for the season, but not the series, so they're gonna have to make a Season 3...guess that means more waiting for us fans...

[Kristen]

I personally don't see the love story being finished yet, I mean J.C has to wait patiently for more novels to be published so that they can make a Season 3, they could make an anime original ending for the season, but not the series, so they're gonna have to make a Season 3...guess that means more waiting for us fans...

Well, honestly, this season really tired me out of Shana, so to be honest, I don't want any more episodes. I'll be forced to watch it if they make any more, and I really don't want that.

But, I mean, it's not impossible to end it. Especially since from the preview it says that they will be making a confession letter next episode. Ending it is simple. Have them confess, Yuji picks Kazumi, Shana goes into a suicidal battle with Bal Masque and dies, but not before killing Bel Peol, Margery gets her final victory over the Silver, and Yuji kills Hecate. Happy end!

[DeotoxSlayer]

Well, honestly, this season really tired me out of Shana, so to be honest, I don't want any more episodes. I'll be forced to watch it if they make any more, and I really don't want that.

But, I mean, it's not impossible to end it. Especially since from the preview it says that they will be making a confession letter next episode. Ending it is simple. Have them confess, Yuji picks Kazumi, Shana goes into a suicidal battle with Bal Masque and dies, but not before killing Bel Peol, Margery gets her final victory over the Silver, and Yuji kills Hecate. Happy end!

And then J.C get bombed by crazed fans what a happy ending.

Seriously, it's completly impossible to end it in this season, and if they do do it(and in the process get bombed) then it's not gonna be anything like what you put there becuase then they'd have to throw away all of the good story points in the latest novels(believe me you'd want to see those episodes animated)

[Kristen]

And then J.C get bombed by crazed fans what a happy ending.

Seriously, it's completly impossible to end it in this season, and if they do do it(and in the process get bombed) then it's not gonna be anything like what you put there becuase then they'd have to throw away all of the good story points in the latest novels(believe me you'd want to see those episodes animated)

Alternative Universe OVA for Novel 18? Do it like KGNE. :)

[DeotoxSlayer]

Alternative Universe OVA for Novel 18? Do it like KGNE. :)

impossible, we don't even know how many more novel will be written, but as of the last novel we can guess that there'll be quite a few more novels to be written.

[Sterling01]

Alternative Universe OVA for Novel 18? Do it like KGNE. :)

How can there be an OVA for a novel that hasn't been written yet

[mikesince83]

Nothing much to say that hasn't already, so I won't bore you all by repeating it. This episode has everything that defines Shakugan no Shana as a great series. It's a shame there haven't been many others of this caliber in season 2.

[Kristen]

How can there be an OVA for a novel that hasn't been written yet

Oh, I thought 18 was out... Whatever the last one was. :p

[Cheezy]

Nice music in the backround. OP 1 played in the battle, was quite nice.

First time in a while we hear Shana saying "Urusai urusai urusai!" aswell.
Great episode.

[DeotoxSlayer]

Oh, I thought 18 was out... Whatever the last one was. :p

They're still on Volume 16, and they are quite a few more volumes to be written before SnS ends for good, there is going to be a third season, SnS is J.C's biggest money make there's no way they're stupid enough not to make a third season, especially when there'll be plent of material left to make one.

[Ashlotte]

Wonderful episode like others have said...I even actually liked the placement of the insert song and ofcourse best of all urusaix3 is back. ;)

Shame it looks like where going back to the...ugh...love triangle. Think ill just wait awhile before I bother watching the rest of this season... :heh:

[DeotoxSlayer]

Wonderful episode like others have said...I even actually liked the placement of the insert song and ofcourse best of all urusaix3 is back. ;)

Shame it looks like where going back to the...ugh...love triangle. Think ill just wait awhile before I bother watching the rest of this season... :heh:

Don't wait awhile trust me things aren't exactly what they seem, the next episode 2 episodes will be amazing...unless J.C staff messes up.

[KholdStare]

Wow, holy shit. I don't remember the last time I gave two 10/10 ratings consecutively. No seriously, this might be the first. I'm just too speechless. The inclusion of the first OP was brilliant, as well as the first words from Shana.

About the love triangle thing I completely accept the first season's love triangle. If they go back to that, then sure. If they continue with what's been shown this season, then no.

Does this episode make up for all of the "challenged" one this season? Probably not, but it still saved the series tremendously. Of course, I'm hoping for the following episodes to be excellent also.

[Mentar]

You know what I enjoyed most in this episode, other than the extended JOINT as battlehymn?

Marcosius' dirty laughter when it became clear that the plan was working ;)

[bkg9990]

I must say, Wilhelmina looked beautiful on that episode <3

[karinvampire]

It was another great episode.


I want a cliffhanger ending.

that would indicate a third season

[FlareKnight]

Damn that was one heck of an episode. Yuji really came through in figuring things out. Again showing what his head can do rather than just screaming like an idiot. Understanding Sabrac and coming up with a strategy that would keep him from eating the people.

Have to give props to Johan. Coming up with a way to counter Stigma which really saved everyone's backsides here. Guess if your attacked by him so often you could come up with some kind of plan after a while. Without that any strategy would have been pointless since Shana, Margery, and Carmel would have been too worn out to do anything but lose.

Good night Sabrac.

Well looks like things will go onto the relationship side before the series finishes. Though you just never know. Any point in the letter writing at least from Kazumi. She has spelled out pretty clearly how she feels about Yuji and nothing has happened.

Though looks like Shana has Alastor's blessing with any relationship with Yuji :). And welcome back to the triple urusai :D.

Now if only I could undo clicking one spoiler several months ago. Then I could forget one bit about what's coming next...Can't remember a lecture from last year, but I can remember that. Stupid brain :heh:.

[Tendou88]

woohoo there it is !

The Triple URUSAI ! ! !

Nice episode overall.
I wonder who will confess first Shana or Yuji, or maybe they say it at same time ^^

[Kiyoru]

Wow.. that episode was AMAZING.

I don't know why, but the quality of the animation seemed a bit off in the last few minutes.. the characters just looked sort of odd, but maybe it's just me.

Anyone know how many episodes there will be for this season? 24 again?

[_DaViD_]

omg, badass shana killing sabrac + urusai !! = epic win

[CapoExecutor]

Well, honestly, this season really tired me out of Shana, so to be honest, I don't want any more episodes. I'll be forced to watch it if they make any more, and I really don't want that.

But, I mean, it's not impossible to end it. Especially since from the preview it says that they will be making a confession letter next episode. Ending it is simple. Have them confess, Yuji picks Kazumi, Shana goes into a suicidal battle with Bal Masque and dies, but not before killing Bel Peol, Margery gets her final victory over the Silver, and Yuji kills Hecate. Happy end!

The last line...

It could be that Yuji tricks Hecate and Sydonay into a crossfire of sorts and they incidently kill each other while trying to get him. It isn't a happy end yet when Yuji still has to deal with Pheles's return should it happen, giving the kid a chance to fight like a maniac with the Blutsauger for his right to exist.


ANYWAYS...

Is it possible to lobby the J.C. Staff for an extension of this season?

[KaneDragon]

Now that you mention it, I really want to find out just what was so important as to conveniently remove Pheles from the action... >_>

[Whitemoon648]

Episode was awesome, But too bad his coolness Sabrac was killed. I hoped he would have ran away, but heavily at damaged at the same time. Why do they have to kill off such a Wickedly epic character so fast *_*?



P.S. Ahh so frustrating. When Will we see Her mightyness , Pheles-dono.

[Aquifina]

I for one thought that this was a strong episode.

Shana chickening out on the confession was disappointing, even if I was amused by the return of her signature line. It seems that the confession *will* occur soon according to the preview, so that also makes her failure excusable. That *must* happen, though, in order to square with the near confession at the school festival. That brief moment of shyness was cute, but anything more will be stupid.

All that being said, I had to like Yuji's grinning like an idiot on the rooftop when she nearly tells him, but hesitates, and I think you can just tell he wants to hear the confession. There's also that telling moment when after talking about fighting together, he then singles out Shana. And he presses her on the issue at the end of the ep; good for him! The emotional knuckleheadedness of the Konoe arc seems to have vanished.

For me, these are still the outstanding issues for the season:

1. How will we resolve the love triangle? Will it even be resolved? I for one don't really know how the triangle will be dealt with. It's my assumption that must be *some* kind of resolution to the triangle; otherwise, I fear it'll feel even more dragged out than it did during the Konoe arc. But I'm open to waiting and seeing where the writers take us.

2. Related to the above, how exactly will Shana confess (assuming it happens, and it better happen--otherwise, I'll be scandalously disappointed)? This is a crucial scene, and I hope it'll be handled well.

3. I *still* think Konoe will be significant in the end; she will have *some* affect on Hecate. But what exactly, I don't know. IF this is handled well, it may very well redeem that horribly mishandled jealously arc from earlier this season.

[Aquifina]

Now that you mention it, I really want to find out just what was so important as to conveniently remove Pheles from the action... >_>

Now that I think about it, my guess is that Pheles will return this season. All that angst over the hougu she gave Kazumi better have some kind of payoff. Unless there's definitely going to be a S3 in the works.

[HayashiTakara]

I think its 26 episodes... At least I hope its 26.

Anyway, finally got around to watching this episode, and I have to say it was amazing. Its been a continuous string of great episodes. And it looks like it won't let up till the end.

Kazumi needs to stop, she's so annoying... She knows full well that Yuji loves Shana and vice versa, she has absolutely no chance of winning, damn broad cant take no for an answer >_>...

[Proto]

Maybe it is because he hasn't received a 'no' for an answer yet you know. If anyone is to blame it is Yuuji for being so vague with his feelings. So far he has only given Yoshida evasives and delays, so you can't really blame her for clinging to hope.

[Major1138]

That was pretty awesome. To be honest, as cool as it was to see Yuji snapping necks and throwing fireballs a couple episodes back, I liked him in this episode more. He's obviously not capable of fighting toe-to-toe like Shana is, but he makes up for it by being clever and aware of his surroundings. Of course, it doesn't hurt that he's able to throw down if circumstances force him too.

I'm wondering where this is all going to go however - they've left a few major plot threads out there (Pheles and the thingy she gave Yoshida, what is the Bal Masque actually up to), and not many episodes left in which to resolve them. Assuming they even come remotely close to following the plot of the novels (which seems to be the case), I'm thinking Code Geass-style cliffhanger here. It'd be a shame if they tried to blitz it all in the remaining episodes.

An anime-original ending isn't out of the question either, but I'm hopeful they won't go too far down that road.

[FlareKnight]

Maybe it is because he hasn't received a 'no' for an answer yet you know. If anyone is to blame it is Yuuji for being so vague with his feelings. So far he has only given Yoshida evasives and delays, so you can't really blame her for clinging to hope. Haven't you ever been in love yourself? :pGood point there. I'm just surprised the guy has left this in the air for so long. Situation with Shana beside the point. Hasn't Yuji had more than enough time regardless of all the things that keep happening to decide how he feels in regards to Kazumi?

Just not doing her any favours by leaving it unanswered for so long. In the mean time her feelings will just get stronger and if he doesn't return those feelings will just cause her more pain. Admitting that I'm completely with Shana so just want him to cut that other thread asap :heh:.

[vorpal83]

I really hope Kazumi just uses the amulet and disappears. Problem solved.

[teachopvutru]

I really hope Kazumi just uses the amulet and disappears. Problem solved.

Ugh... in before further negative sentiments toward Kazumi (let's not let history of whatever episode discussion repeats itself in here, well, a precaution anyway)... But in any case, I still don't see how Kazumi has to disappear for the problem to be solved. Yuji could simply reject her (unless of course, she persisted even after that). I much rather prefer her to be rejected, but still alive and be with Ike instead, but given the zero development between them so far, that would be pretty awkward I suppose.

[KaneDragon]

It's Christmas time! The time we've been waiting for since the Yoshida x Ike scene in the first OP! The prophecies will be fulfilled, very soon! You must have faith.

[teachopvutru]

It's Christmas time! The time we've been waiting for since the Yoshida x Ike scene in the first OP! The prophecies will be fulfilled, very soon! You must have faith.

Even if the confession does occur, it most likely will be unrequited love... I think it would take a while before we have any chance of seeing any Yoshida x Ike intimation yet...

[feRfe]

i lawled @ alastor encouraging shana to date yuuji now.
ya this guy beats teh h4x tomogara sabrac now go hook up w/ him

Chea! AiGHt SoOt G!

[Mai Kawasumi]

Ugh... in before further negative sentiments toward Kazumi (let's not let history of whatever episode discussion repeats itself in here, well, a precaution anyway)... But in any case, I still don't see how Kazumi has to disappear for the problem to be solved. Yuji could simply reject her (unless of course, she persisted even after that). I much rather prefer her to be rejected, but still alive and be with Ike instead, but given the zero development between them so far, that would be pretty awkward I suppose.

Cookie for this comment, I think the same, I don't want her dead :(

[ashlay]

Cookie for this comment, I think the same, I don't want her dead :(
well, we still haven't had that scene between Yoshida and Ike from the first opening. It's december in the show, there's 3 episodes left, now would be the perfect time for Ike to have some character development alone with Yoshida. :rolleyes:

[Aquifina]

Maybe it is because he hasn't received a 'no' for an answer yet you know. If anyone is to blame it is Yuuji for being so vague with his feelings. So far he has only given Yoshida evasives and delays, so you can't really blame her for clinging to hope.

By any reasonable standard IMO, Yuji's already said no. Yes, telling Kazumi he was leaving the city *was* evading the issue on the deepest of emotional levels, but at the very least, it it should have told her that she just isn't that high a priority for him. And even when Kazumi hits on the truth of the matter--Yuji's desire to protect the city--she's still only a friend.

Yuji has also earlier tried to deal with the problem; remember him trying to refuse the bentos earlier this season, only to see Ike refusing. And then Shana jumped all over him for not being pitch-perfect in the earlier attempt at letting Kazumi down. Dumping someone is always a pain-in-the-ass; it's never pretty, but it's almost as if everyone around Yuji expects him to do it in a perfect manner. And that only helps drag the problem along.

BTW, I actually don't mind Kazumi's character; I actually think she has some great moments--the S1 confrontation and declaration of war with Shana where she actually gets the better of the Flame Haze was awesome--but I don't think Yuji really should be blamed for the weirdness between them.

At the end of the day, it's Shana who will settle the issue, when she finally makes the necessary confession. The issue was always who would Yuji choose; that's how both of the girls have defined the contest. The problem is that no one's bothered to clue Yuji on on the terms of the game.

[arcticphoenix16]

I watched the first few episodes of season2 and just couldn't take it anymore. Discontinued it, came back and watched 20 and 21 because there was nothing to do. I have to say I'm glad I watched it. 10/10 from me.

Which got me thinking, if this arc is supposedly the best one, what kind of crap did you guy endure from the rest of the episodes?

[kamikazex]

man caramel somehow she never stood out before but damn. her mask and long hair made her look exceptionally badass this episode. i'll never see her in the same way again. shes simply awesome
and yeah 10/10 frikking epic episode

[Whitemoon648]

man caramel somehow she never stood out before but damn. her mask and long hair made her look exceptionally badass this episode. i'll never see her in the same way again. shes simply awesome
and yeah 10/10 frikking epic episode

she hasnt been Known as one of the strongest Flame hazes for no reason. Since her introduction in season 1, it was stated that she is one of the stronger flame hazes out there. Same with Flame haired red eyed and Annnnne san. So basically She is one of the ellites among the flame hazes.


Still it took all of them to take care of Sabrac. It wasnt a fair fight *_*. 3v1 ? thats cheating.


Any ways i wonder who he was talking about when he said, " there is no point in reserving POE when it is not certain when i am going to meet that person". I bet it was Pheles.

P.S. Pheles ftw. Maybe i should make a Phele sig *_*.


I watched the first few episodes of season2 and just couldn't take it anymore. Discontinued it, came back and watched 20 and 21 because there was nothing to do. I have to say I'm glad I watched it. 10/10 from me.

Which got me thinking, if this arc is supposedly the best one, what kind of crap did you guy endure from the rest of the episodes?

You should have asked us before doing that. I mean if you skipped episodes around 15 to 20 then you basically missed alot of cool action + a huge portion of this and Pheles arc.


And about what we endured? well Of course it was painfull for us, since we had to wait like for a month and half before some good shana action episods. But I would have probably watched them in order if i were in your position. I mean If i had just started watching shana season 2, after 21 episode, then i would have definitly watched the whole thing ( in order).

P.S. Glad you enjoyed it though :D.

[Tendou88]

Still it took all of them to take care of Sabrac. It wasnt a fair fight *_*. 3v1 ? thats cheating.



Sabrac aint fair either. He already prepared that underground thing (those strings) and he always sneak attack to get advantage of a fight.

[dave1992]

3 Againt 1? Why don't you count Yuji as their 'main tactician'?

[outcast_within]

is it me or were there just a lot of unnecesary panties of shana flying around

[Sinestra]

I take my hat of to you Yuuji truly a great job. Not only did managed to stay alive without whining, but to notice his surroundings so much as to come up with this plan, execute it and win against such an overwhelming opponent is worth a pat on the bat. I must also say damn to Carmel as well to hold her own for that long and leave her trump card to the end was fucking smooth.

Another scene i enjoyed although it was minor was when Sabrac knew who Shana was from her flame and said "This must be The flame haired red hot eyed hunter" and Shana said "add Shana to the end" i thought that was pretty cute and Alastor not objecting to Shana telling her feelings to Yuji was a change. But to be able to impress Alastor Yuji has come a long way. I think at this point Yuji has finally found what he is fighting for and thats what i have been waiting for.

I see the Kazumi hate continues sigh oh well. I didnt have a problem with her this time around she was actually helping she found something she could do and she helped treat Shana's wounds. I really dont think she deserves the EXTREME hate thats been sprouting out. She can be annoying but wishing for her death is a little over the top.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Episode 19:

-He was more or less resembling a normal person drunk with power, but for all the fighting we've seen, apparently it wasn't him that was too weak; It was just Wilhelmina being strong enough to hold him off, and Yuji's explanation seemed to make up for the big question mark as to why Sabrac had so much power, but was unable to finish Wilhelmina off (other than the fact that she was sufficiently strong and skilled).

-They haven't really explained how he got his power of existence hooked into the city, which was a minus for me. I'd accept, though, that it would be a little too contrived for Yuji to figure out EVERYTHING in that short span of time.

-Looks like Yuji's not the only resourceful one here. Although Wilhelmina probably had no idea he could devise a plan like that, she has pretty good hindsight on her own part, revealing her 'secret weapon' only when she realised her help had been received, thus giving the action of letting Yuji go serve a double purpose.

-Sabrac certainly has poor skills in detection, and that proved to be his downfall. I wouldn't rate him now as a classy villain, but neither was he anywhere as pathetic (IMO) as the Thrones of Gundam 00.

To those who considered him a little too talkative, you have to wonder whether he was opening his mouth most of the time in the first place, since we can't really see any lips from him and since not all of the 'dialogue' coming from him was acknowledged. :heh:

-Is it just me, or did Alastor just sounded as though he accepted a son-in-law? :heh::heh:

Seriously, though, I think he pretty much sums it up with Yuji. Cursed be the one who continues labelling him a wimp.

-Now hopefully people will shut their traps about Kazumi being useless. Even being 'just' an informant has its uses. In this episode alone, Keisaku was probably as useful as her in relaying information to Margery while Kazumi to Wilhelmina.

-This felt a little like a good last episode to me, since the entanglement involving Yuji's heart was resolved, it felt as though there was a 'alls well ends well' mood, a return to status quo (even though we all know that the issue of the relationships isn't resolved yet).

-I have to admit, the last two episodes wouldn't look out of place in Bleach or-God forbid-Dragonball. Pretty explosive and full of bling as compared to some of the fights in season 1. If the fight actually went in accordance to how it did in the novels, then there isn't much I can say about it. Still, it was pretty exciting and entertaining.

I don't know what's up with the letters, but I feel a little bemused by the fact that Shana has demoted to using those, after she mustered enough courage to actually want to confess to Yuji in front of the whole school previously.

[FlareKnight]

Guess Shana is trying yet another method to get things out there. Since one time Yuji conveniently didn't hear her, other got interrupted by Pheles, and latest episode she just couldn't say it before going after Sabrac. So if verbal isn't getting the job done, let's bring on the letters :heh:.

Kazumi did function fine as a fill in for Tanaka. Needed another person to fill the role of relaying information to Carmel and she did fine. Isn't a level of wanting her dead, but wanting to get that side of things resolved. Other than repeating her feelings what else can the girl do? Well aside from looking at things from a distance and talking about how she wishes she could be with Yuji.

[Dragon-Emperor]

I loved this episode! I did notice a few really bad animation section though; mainly around Shana when she’s flying to Sabrac at the end, and when the two clash. The level of detail just dropped. Wilhelmina however had some gorgeous moments. 9/10 from me!

I don't know what will happen in the future novel wise between the famous triangle, but I do not want to see Kazumi die, however it's looking like a definite possibility due to the 2 times she almost through away Pheles's hogou, but didn't. Seems like it will be used to me! But whether it does the sacrifice it is said to... who knows!
As FlareKnight pointed out, Shana has tried to communicate her love for Yuuji many times, all of which in rather dramatic and meaningful moments. All of which would've been epic times for him to hear her feelings, which fans would definitely love! But as for the letters... It's a cute way to get some Ike/Kazumi drama (he can't take part in an epic confession in a battle after all!) and maybe some resolve between those two. But the letters definitely won't solve things between Yuuji and Shana. Not something as dry as that! But if it's going to happen, hopefully it's interrupted and leads to the epic confession from Shanas heart that is to actually be HEARD by Yuuji. Something that has been building up throughout the whole series!

[rozenfreak123]

This was one of the best episodes so far simply because that hard-core fight scenes againist Sabrac and the Flame Hazes. It's too bad Sabrac didn't succeed though but if that happened the story plot would either go in a downward spiral or it would completely die. However, I was expecting after Sabrac's defeat that Hecate and Fecor would reappear and capture Yuji.

[Sabrac]

great episode and I agree with some of the others that it was prolly the best ep of both seasons. Too bad sabrac is killed off early he is by far the coolest and best villain SnS had.

Also this season isnt as bad as some say imo. Yes the 1st 11 eps were flat but the last half of this season has been great, and i would even say i have enjoyed the last half more than season 1 final half.

[CapoExecutor]

This was one of the best episodes so far simply because that hard-core fight scenes againist Sabrac and the Flame Hazes. It's too bad Sabrac didn't succeed though but if that happened the story plot would either go in a downward spiral or it would completely die. However, I was expecting after Sabrac's defeat that Hecate and Fecor would reappear and capture Yuji.

An abduction attempt executed by those two after the battle probably wouldn't be a good idea since Yuji and Margery are still fresh, ready to fight, and can go berserk if need be. But again, if the Balle Masque threw everything they have at them right after the battle with Sabrac, then the Misaki City defenders would be in deep trouble.

[grey_moon]

Yay Ux3 is back!

Feels like the show is back to the end of S1. I've very happy with that :)

[HayashiTakara]

Kazumi is evil, she knows Yuji is interested in Shana and Shana is interested in Yuji, but she won't tell Yuji how Shana feels, She's trying to "change" his mind, but thats not happening. Yuji has his mind set, so its not a matter of who he choose, its when it'll all come out in the open. The choice to Yuji is already clear, he wants to be with Shana, period.

[Proto]

Yuji's decision is clear for us 3rd person viewers who get a glimpse of what the characters think, do and eat at all times. For a person immersed in the problem Yuji is just a person who is generally nice to everyone.

[BigGimp77]

Good episode. Although the whole Shana and Kazumi writing letters thing kind of scares me. I'd much rather have Shana confess in person.

And didn't Kazumi already put her feelings out there? I hope they send her letter to the wrong address.

This love triangle needs to end soon, I just hope they don't eff it up.

[Sinestra]

Kazumi is evil, she knows Yuji is interested in Shana and Shana is interested in Yuji, but she won't tell Yuji how Shana feels, She's trying to "change" his mind, but thats not happening. Yuji has his mind set, so its not a matter of who he choose, its when it'll all come out in the open. The choice to Yuji is already clear, he wants to be with Shana, period.

WOW thats a pretty bold statement iv heard Kazumi be called a lot of things but EVIl are seriously saying shes evil. You might want to go back and watch season 1 and start season 2 over.

It clear for us whats going on because we are the viewer the 3rd perspective but not to anyone else in the show its self. Why would Kazumi tell Shana how Yuji feels shouldnt that be up to him?

Sigh You're reintegrating facts that have been discussed over and over but you just added evil on the end of Kazumi's name, without stating proof why she's evil I dont understand your mind set, technically you can say the same thing about Shana she knows Kazumi likes Yuji why doesnt she tell him? Two way street but not as black and white as you would have it seem. Im not even a Kazumi supporter but i understand where shes coming from.

[Eisdrache]

lol at the two panty shots of Shana -.-

OnTopic:
I really liked this episode :) As I dont watch previews I hope the following episodes will be as good as this one.

[HayashiTakara]

lol, um.. evil is alittle over doing it, but she's selfish, borderline obsessive. If she really did love him she would want him to be happy and telling informing both Yuji and Shana on their feelings would undoubtedly make Yuji happy. She's delaying the inevitable trying to force Yuji to change his mind.

[Sinestra]

lol, um.. evil is alittle over doing it, but she's selfish, borderline obsessive. If she really did love him she would want him to be happy and telling informing both Yuji and Shana on their feelings would undoubtedly make Yuji happy. She's delaying the inevitable trying to force Yuji to change his mind.

Again, the same perspective can be taken with Shana shes very selfish and she is in the same position that Kazumi is in, Kazumi is not obsessive shes in love wants to do more for the person she cares about but is not sure how to go about it. Does Yuji know how Shana feels about him NO, it has only been implied. From what you are stating your saying that Kazumi should tell Shana how Yuji feels and vice versa. Why is it not the responsibility of either of the two. If you want something you get with your own 2 hands not someone elses. She does want him to be happy to the point where she would even sacrifice herself for him. She cares about his well being above her own and so does Shana that is one of essences of loving someone.

She is not forcing anyone to change their mind she letting her feelings be known and letting Yuji pick who he wants to be with its no ones elses choice (and that is her right). Yuji has not clearly made his feelings known to either of them, we only know what he feels because we are the viewers. Your making a wide range of generalization without listing all the facts or seeing each person perspective. Until Yuji says i like/love Shana he is free game for anyone who has feelings for him.

[Gotank]

Ahh good episode. And I agree with someone else's comment earlier that this really felt like the season finale of SnS second, especially with the insert music playing in the latter part of the episode, and the eventual return to harem... I really hope they have enough episodes left to make an even better conclusion.

[cnnydz]

lol, um.. evil is alittle over doing it, but she's selfish, borderline obsessive. If she really did love him she would want him to be happy and telling informing both Yuji and Shana on their feelings would undoubtedly make Yuji happy. She's delaying the inevitable trying to force Yuji to change his mind.

Again, the same perspective can be taken with Shana shes very selfish and she is in the same position that Kazumi is in, Kazumi is not obsessive shes in love wants to do more for the person she cares about but is not sure how to go about it. Does Yuji know how Shana feels about him NO, it has only been implied. From what you are stating your saying that Kazumi should tell Shana how Yuji feels and vice versa. Why is it not the responsibility of either of the two. If you want something you get with your own 2 hands not someone elses. She does want him to be happy to the point where she would even sacrifice herself for him. She cares about his well being above her own and so does Shana that is one of essences of loving someone.


that's why i think the novels are so much better than the anime. in the novels, during the fight with sabrac and before yuji figured out a plan
shana said to kazumi that if she dies then kazumi should use the hougu to call for pheles and escape with yuji(she doesn't know the drawbacks of the hougu), but then kazumi said if shana dies then the hougu would become worthless and decided she need to protect shana and yuji with her life, but it was not needed in the end as sabrac's true form was discovered.


but yeah, the anime version of kazumi is really selfish and annoying.

[Guido]

An explosive conclusion to wrap up the Sabrac arc, and a nice Shana x Yuji moment at the end that marked the return....

of her (in)famous urusai, urusai, urusai...

It's been a while since I last heard Shana utter her phrase in the show.


Action and destruction taken to the level of insanity. It was a wonderful how each of the present characters fulfilled their roles, and yet used a little bit of spare time to clear away their inner struggles.


Honestly, the colors inside Sabrac's fuzetsu were a treat to my eyes.

I love how Carmel's crimson-pink color of her hair and eyes was greatly enhanced.

And the world of the Fuzetsu beautifully portrayed in a cold, gloomy crimson stained within frozen time.

Shana gets the hats off for her fire sword attack, which massively cinder Sabrac into a crisp, and for flashing her panties in a naughty moment before the climatic strike.



I felt disappointed that we won't get to see more of Sabrac in future episodes, because his villainess of a character was of different dimension.

Though I understand why the producers wanted go all out on him duking the Flame Hazes at full power for two straight episodes.

They just did not want for this arc to be prolonged more than needed and turn into another Dragon Ball Z fest of insane power-ups and senseless destruction.

Still, it would have been for the better if they had procured Sabrac's defeat in the next episode for the first half, and then using the remainder half to properly develop the characters at the conclusion.

It's because now with Sabrac gone I'm feeling both angst and tense about the direction the remainder of the show will head to.

There is still several mysteries unexplained or not wrapped at all:
1. The mystery of the keeper inside the Reiji Maigo; 2. The Silver Tomogara still out of Margery's reach; 3. The weird plan that the Bal Masque is cooking up with the Silver and the Reiji Maigo; and 4. Pheles's Return.

I have the certainty that the Bal Masque will start to make their next move at the end of the next episode.

For now the only possibility I see fit for the animation staff to end season two in a satisfactory note is if they pull out a cliffhanger in the very last episode of season two but coming from a series of twists and unfortunate events worked up in the remaining episodes.
Like, for example, what Sunrise did for Code Geass season's one end. Leaving the main storyline in a cliffhanger during a climax point, but explicitly announcing the continuation for another season.

[Triple_R]

Only if you rank the Flame Haze up against ridiculous Gundam SEED standards. An anti-hero has to have villainous characteristics, not something like that is usually done for the greater good.

An anti-hero would:

1. Sacrifice many people for the few.
2. Sacrifice 100 people to save 100 people.

A villain would:

3. Sacrifice people for no particular reason or a false one.

The powers of the Quincy in Bleach are something an anti-hero would have. They save humans by killing off Hollows, but they risk spiritual balance since they actually destroy the spirits, though they don't care. This is compared to the Shinigami powers which only seal spirits.

I have to agree with the Real Nemo here - I think that you're using a far too strict definition of the term 'anti-hero' here.

An awful lot of fictional heroes won't sacrifice any lives - even the lives of villains.

If someone's willing to pretty callously sacrifice even a few lives for a nebulous cause (as even Shana was in early Season 1), I can see the title "anti-hero" being justifiably applied to such a person.

[MrShin]

I love this series, I specially loved the first season. However this episode really wants me to drag this serie and put it next to DBZ/Bleach/etc.

Is this show becomming an Screaming nonstop show? This episode is somewhat pathetic. Yuji's character evolution suddently "BURSTED" into another type oc character. My verdict;
Lovely last 1-2minut ending. Thats it.

Cheers.

[Liddo-kun]

Episode was awesome, But too bad his coolness Sabrac was killed. I hoped he would have ran away, but heavily at damaged at the same time. Why do they have to kill off such a Wickedly epic character so fast *_*?


Yeah, it was a bit sad that Sabrac is already killed after just 2 episodes.

Though if he would have been able to escape, I think it will be hard for them the next time he shows up because Sabrac would think of a strategy to counter their plan to defeat him.

[Gotank]

Hehe, something similar between this episode of Shana and recent Gundam episode apparently (didn't watch gundam, so I don't know, image ripped off from another thread I visited...)

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8364/shanagundamcomparisonzkyc6.jpg

[thelok]

The look in shana's eyes when she powered up near the end was reminiscent of dragonball z, especially with the hair all vertical

[Altima of the Gates]

that's why i think the novels are so much better than the anime. in the novels, during the fight with sabrac and before yuji figured out a plan
shana said to kazumi that if she dies then kazumi should use the hougu to call for pheles and escape with yuji(she doesn't know the drawbacks of the hougu), but then kazumi said if shana dies then the hougu would become worthless and decided she need to protect shana and yuji with her life, but it was not needed in the end as sabrac's true form was discovered.


but yeah, the anime version of kazumi is really selfish and annoying.

Huh? I think you can say she is a lottle bit obsessive, but shes been a good friend to both of them so I fail to see where you got selfish from.

Anyway, I loved the episode, my friend who sat next me watching these past 2 episodes is a Wilhelmina fan, so both he and I were loving every minute of the fight. It was short, but very sweet.

[Reckoner]

I'm not a novel reader, so just stating this.

Sabrac isn't completely done because we still don't know what the unrestricted spell he put on the Reji Maigo is. We'll see though.

[feRfe]

dot dot dot
y did my post get erased?
...
so yeah it was pretty funny how alastor was quick to change his stance on shana and yuuji hooking up when yuuji figured out a plan to defeat sabrac

Zz. wtfbbqmods

[HayashiTakara]

We already know, the seal was what implanted the Silver into the R. Meigo.

[Sterling01]

We already know, the seal was what implanted the Silver into the R. Meigo.
Bzzt Wrong.... It hasn't been revealed yet

[KaneDragon]

We already know, the seal was what implanted the Silver into the R. Meigo.
No, it didn't implant Silver, it just appears to have created some kind of connection, though which Silver--whose actual body is held in the Bal Masque place--tried to escape when Pheles showed up, before being sealed up by Hecate.

But we don't know what it actually is and what it is ultimately supposed to accomplish. Not to mention what the heck Silver was trying to do.


Something else that bugs me about this episode: pulling that anti-Stigma spell out of nowhere. Yes, Johan had been working on it, but he hadn't managed to complete it before being stuffed in the Raging Mango. So he continues to work on it in the meantime. Fine. But they manage to establish contact with him and learn the spell, all off screen? Or did Wilhelmina really somehow know the finished spell anyway, but really saved it until the last possible second to 'lure Sabby into a false sense of security' despite being pushed to the limit and Sabby having Power Overwhelming? Where did Shana and Margery get it? Where am I wrong with this?

[FlareKnight]

Well at least on the simple side. Shana and Margery got it from Yuji. Carmel passed it along to him and he escaped during the fight in order to pass it around.

Bit iffy on the time line of events that lead to it being used here. Clearly Johan had been working on it after all the attacks they had from Sabrac. Probably was near completion during that final moment. Carmel was probably in the loop on how things were going. Then Carmel managed to get it finished, tested (how you do that without being attacked I'm not sure) and ready to go for this episode. Either that or he had just completed it, but it still required tests etc before being viable.

Don't think he was secretly working away in the Reiji Maigo to finish it up. Does seem that Carmel was waiting until the right time to use it. After all the moment Sabrac realizes that Stigma isn't effective he may change his strategy. If he thinks you are being worn down then you can keep him chasing you. Either that or it was all for a really dramatic effect :heh:.

[KaneDragon]

If he thinks you are being worn down then you can keep him chasing you. Either that or it was all for a really dramatic effect :heh:.
Problem being, she was being worn down. :heh: As absurd as Sabrac was for most of the fight, holding back the antidote and letting those wounds fester and weaken her more and more is rather iffy. She sure fooled us, then, didn't she? :p And anyway, that was some spiffy Magic Antidote (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicAntidote), considering it not only cured her Poison status but also reversed the existing damage.

Why not just use Yuji as a meat shield in the initial blast and heal him when Sabby isn't looking? :heh:;)

Shana got the counterspell from "Yuhan", clearly, since she was content to chill with Yoshida until Yuji showed up. But communicating with Johan is a big deal. Johan only got out once before, accidentally, thanks to Margery's tangled web of spells. So not even giving the event a token mention confuses me, if that is indeed the case.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Problem being, she was being worn down. :heh: As absurd as Sabrac was for most of the fight, holding back the antidote and letting those wounds fester and weaken her more and more is rather iffy. She sure fooled us, then, didn't she? :p And anyway, that was some spiffy Magic Antidote (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicAntidote), considering it not only cured her Poison status but also reversed the existing damage.

Why not just use Yuji as a meat shield in the initial blast and heal him when Sabby isn't looking? :heh:;)

I believe she needed to ensure that someone was there to deliver the 'cure' to Margery and Shana, and I doubt she would dare to take any risks with Yuji, especially when she was somewhat angry that he still had not left even after delivering the bandages.

[FlareKnight]

Shana got the counterspell from "Yuhan", clearly, since she was content to chill with Yoshida until Yuji showed up. But communicating with Johan is a big deal. Johan only got out once before, accidentally, thanks to Margery's tangled web of spells. So not even giving the event a token mention confuses me, if that is indeed the case.Honestly don't think there was any communication with Johan aside from the chat he had with Pheles during the episode he got out. I'm working under the belief that Carmel had the counter before all that even happened. Since there wasn't a moment where she could have talked to him about it and Pheles left almost immediately after.

[viny]

Master planner Yuji strikes again!!!!
Quite a good fighting episode!

[HashiriyaR32]

Now how would a ballistic shield stand up against Sabrac's "Rocket Limb Chaos Bomb"?

[cnnydz]

Honestly don't think there was any communication with Johan aside from the chat he had with Pheles during the episode he got out. I'm working under the belief that Carmel had the counter before all that even happened. Since there wasn't a moment where she could have talked to him about it and Pheles left almost immediately after.

the counter spell was created by johan but it was not finished, wilhelmina completed it during the fight.

[Kinny Riddle]

I think its 26 episodes... At least I hope its 26.

Anyway, finally got around to watching this episode, and I have to say it was amazing. Its been a continuous string of great episodes. And it looks like it won't let up till the end.

Kazumi needs to stop, she's so annoying... She knows full well that Yuji loves Shana and vice versa, she has absolutely no chance of winning, damn broad cant take no for an answer >_>...
With all due respect to your cute Shana avatar, I am beginning to get sick and tired of your excessive slander towards Yoshida for every minute she makes an appearance for the last few weeks.

Your partizan bias for Shana is now bordering on the extreme and unreasonable. Oh and before you say anything, I'm all for Yuji ending up with Shana, but I don't find Yoshida the least bit dislikeable. Even Shana herself doesn't find Yoshida annoying to want her dead. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for claiming to be supporting her in her best interests with such malice.

I shall say no more.

[Deathscyther]

I too find the Yoshida bashing annoying. We know that you don't like her by now, but you don't have to put your hate for Yoshida in every post.

I agree that the novel version of Yoshida was much less annoying, I even like her quite a bit in the novels (I haven't read them all yet though), but there is no reason to hate the anime Yoshida this much.

I too am a Yuji x Shana supporter, but that doesn't mean that I want Yoshida out of the way (some people even want her dead...)

[dave1992]

Well, Kazumi is just incomparable to that Uchite...

[Sterling01]

The Yoshida bashing is very funny to read
The Shana fanatics are even funnier

Though this may be because I'm a Yuji X Bel Peol supporter (Just picked at random) :heh::heh:

[DeotoxSlayer]

With all due respect to your cute Shana avatar, I am beginning to get sick and tired of your excessive slander towards Yoshida for every minute she makes an appearance for the last few weeks.

Your partizan bias for Shana is now bordering on the extreme and unreasonable. Oh and before you say anything, I'm all for Yuji ending up with Shana, but I don't find Yoshida the least bit dislikeable. Even Shana herself doesn't find Yoshida annoying to want her dead. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for claiming to be supporting her in her best interests with such malice.

I shall say no more.

I'm gonna have to agree with kinny on this one, I mean I don't really like Kazumi either, but from what i can tell from Cnnydz's comparison of novel, and anime Kazumi, and from reading the first 2 novels (why did Viz have to licencence the Novels why!!!!!!!!!!!!! T_T) she actually seems tolerable, and her character is "Stronger" than the anime one, The only reason people hate Kazumi is becuase J.C messed up her character, and unfortunately most of us will never read the novels, so we won't know what Kazumi was actually supposed to be like.

[CapoExecutor]

The Yoshida bashing is very funny to read
The Shana fanatics are even funnier

Though this may be because I'm a Yuji X Bel Peol supporter (Just picked at random) :heh::heh:

You're not the only one who supports a Yuji X Bel Peol ship despite the fact that my reasons are different and such a pairing is the least likely to happen.

[K-san]

This episode has to be the best episode I've seen so far.
I had to watch it twice, because it's such a AWESOME episode.

[Sinestra]

that's why i think the novels are so much better than the anime. in the novels, during the fight with sabrac and before yuji figured out a plan
shana said to kazumi that if she dies then kazumi should use the hougu to call for pheles and escape with yuji(she doesn't know the drawbacks of the hougu), but then kazumi said if shana dies then the hougu would become worthless and decided she need to protect shana and yuji with her life, but it was not needed in the end as sabrac's true form was discovered.


but yeah, the anime version of kazumi is really selfish and annoying.

I seriously wonder how all this Kazumi hate can blindly overlook any flaws that Shana has as well its borderline obsessive and compulsive. Its like hate for the sake of hate maybe you misunderstood where I was coming from. My point was if you hate Kazumi for the feelings she has Yuji then you need to hate Shana to for any argument of that type to hold weight. Majority of the post aimed at flaming Kazumi are biased with most comments being i hate what she says, shes annoying. Yet majority of viewers refuse to look outside of the box and see WHY certain events have happen and HOW things ended as they have. Sigh I would just like to see a valid informative Intelligent post about hating her rather then jumping on the bandwagon post. I am in favor of ShanaxYuji but in order to understand the message behind the love triangle i think its boils down to a little more than "Kazumi is annoying" 90% of the hate post about Kazumi are unfounded, unreasonable have no real meat behind it. Wishing for her death and calling her evil i have not see one shred of evidence to conclude that she is evil nor have I seen anyone with a post that was worth reading that offered any kind logical explanation behind why they dislike her. No one says you have to like her if you dont say you and dont move the hell on instead every other post being how she was annoying. Its bothersome, pointless and unfounded.

Ask your self how would you feel if someone said the feelings you had for another were annoying when you were serious. "he who cast the first stone" I say

[KaneDragon]

The Yoshida bashing is very funny to read
The Shana fanatics are even funnier

Though this may be because I'm a Yuji X Bel Peol supporter (Just picked at random) :heh::heh:

Call it "Yuji x Hecate" and you may be on to something. :D

[Proto]

Nay, Yuuji x Lamies. Traps FTW.

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about this episode. While action wise it was a very good episode, we have to remember that SnS is not a shounen series, so calling this the best episode of the series would be counter-intuitive to what SnS has been tryinig to convey all this time.

[HayashiTakara]

Sorry, can't keep a straight face anymore, don't take me too seriously, really, its true I'm a Shana fanatic, and that I don't like Kazumi, but my hate doesn't run that deep XD.

Anyways, how long do you think it'll take before Yuji becomes a badass fighter? There should a timeskip OVA in like a hundred years in the future showing Shana and Yuji in different clothes totally kicking ass and taking names side by side in an epic battle.

[KaneDragon]

If it's a hundred years in the future, it is nigh-required that Yuji somehow acquire at least parts of Silver's armor and become like Robocop. :D

[HayashiTakara]

It'll be cool if he can summon parts of the armor on command, and it materializes on him, that'll be awesome.

[KaneDragon]

As long as it isn't a naked transformation sequence, I'll let it slide. However, shredding your shirt by flexing ala Kenshiro is still acceptable.

[HayashiTakara]

lol, the armor would just materialize over his clothes, like silver flames wrapping around the part of his body and then forms into armor.

[cnnydz]

*snip*

don't get me wrong, it not that i don't like her character, i just can't stand the way jc staff portrayed her. i know that she is in a bad situation and all, but that's why i want to hear more of her feelings than just "i want to be with sakai-kun". it is like that the anime skipped pass all of her good points e.g willing to sacrifice herself for the sake of yuji and shana and focused on making her the most annoying character in the universe:mad:.

as for why she is annoying, well i am not saying that she is bad or annoying towards other characters. what i meant was that she is annoying towards us viewers by randomly showing up and repeat the same words and flashbacks again and again. like i said before i wanted to see more than just her saying "i want to be with sakai-kun", i want to see more of her struggles. now i am not a kazumi hater, i like her a lot and that's why i am angry, because i think the anime did her no justice:mad:.

[HayashiTakara]

I would like Kazumi better if there was more to her than a whiny human who can't do anything at all. She's just... there to give unnecessary drama.

[cnnydz]

I would like Kazumi better if there was more to her than a whiny human who can't do anything at all. She's just... there to give unnecessary drama.

it is not her fault that she can't do anything, and she is not required to do anyway and i wouldn't call her unnecessary.

[HayashiTakara]

She did her job in season one in making Shana realize her feelings, now everything that has happened in Season 2 is unnecessary drama

[The Real Nemo]

She did her job in season one in making Shana realize her feelings, now everything that has happened in Season 2 is unnecessary drama
Except not everyone considers that to be her only purpose, and she certainly doesn't...

[Sinestra]

don't get me wrong, it not that i don't like her character, i just can't stand the way jc staff portrayed her. i know that she is in a bad situation and all, but that's why i want to hear more of her feelings than just "i want to be with sakai-kun". it is like that the anime skipped pass all of her good points e.g willing to sacrifice herself for the sake of yuji and shana and focused on making her the most annoying character in the universe:mad:.

as for why she is annoying, well i am not saying that she is bad or annoying towards other characters. what i meant was that she is annoying towards us viewers by randomly showing up and repeat the same words and flashbacks again and again. like i said before i wanted to see more than just her saying "i want to be with sakai-kun", i want to see more of her struggles. now i am not a kazumi hater, i like her a lot and that's why i am angry, because i think the anime did her no justice:mad:.

And that ladies and gentlemen is the kind of post i have been looking for. Thanks Cnnydz i agree with the majority of what you have stated. The writers seem to have a plan or want more from Kazumi but it feels like they do not know how to portray her. I feel her role is not just that of "I love yuji" or "i wont lose" her whole character from season 1 has been geared towards something else but it has been lost in season 2. Episode 21 had her actually helping out even though it was a small part she was doing something. I dont think shes useless just like you i wanted to see more in depth character development from her its not to late for this happen if the writers get on the ball. I like her too shes a sweet girl and doesnt deserve to die, she actually deserves more. cookies for you.

Im not trying to be an ass to people if you want to be a Shana Shipper by all means do so but do it intelligently.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Im not trying to be an ass to people if you want to be a Shana Shipper by all means do so but do it intelligently.

Uh yeah what cnnydz's been saying has pretty much been the same that most of us have been pointing out.

Of course no one's going to hunt it down through all these threads/posts.

It's more on the lines of, "yes we know Kazumi, we know that you love Saji, etc." but it just keeps coming back and back.

Though with the Hogu Pheles gave her let's hope she does something with it.

[KholdStare]

I thought I would throw in my thoughts about Kazumi. Now I don't even remember the first season much, but all I know is this: Kazumi was my favorite character from season one. That means she must've done something right, because we all know that cuteness by itself can be annoying without the correct personality. Whatever she did last season to impress me, it didn't continue on to this season.

I don't see why you people are bashing her though. I think that it's nothing worse than the average romance anime, and our expectations are just way too high from watching the first season. Looking at season two by itself, the greatest flaw is Konoe (not really, but she got way too much screen time with no plot advancement), because the Kazumi-Shana-Yuji triangle is just a typical love triangle. The problem is people keep asking every episode, "Where's the action?" This means that we're not watching it for the romance, but for the other aspects of Shakugan no Shana. What I'm trying to say is romance, action, and comedy are often separate genres for a reason, and combining them to bring about a great series is a very hard task. The first season succeeded; the second season did not. Maybe the second season in JC Staff's eyes is supposed to be a big split between romance and action, with none of them really mixing. If so, then it's sort of our fault for expecting it not to be that way because of the inevitable comparisons to the first season.

I'm really glad I waited and got to see episodes 20 and 21 though. They were really good.

[S_K]

A really good episode, looks we got to see more jam packed episodes full of fighting :D
so after the all this stuff Sabrac, would it be right to say that they will be going up against Bal Masque as we near the end of this series?

[superzombie23]

They could've tried putting the last forty seconds of Overture 1928 when Shana attacked Sabrac instead.

LOL i totally agree with you on that one. And, this episode does not deserve a 10 imo -.-. Compared to the other episodes though, it gets a 10.

[Triple_R]

Kazumi is evil, she knows Yuji is interested in Shana and Shana is interested in Yuji, but she won't tell Yuji how Shana feels, She's trying to "change" his mind, but thats not happening. Yuji has his mind set, so its not a matter of who he choose, its when it'll all come out in the open. The choice to Yuji is already clear, he wants to be with Shana, period.

Kazumi's thinking, I believe is "If you (Shana) can't confess your love to Yuji, then you don't deserve to be his girlfriend/lover. I confessed my love to Yuji not long after I started to have feelings for him... why haven't you (Shana) confessed yet?"

To a certain extent, I agree with Kazumi.

I mean, it's kind of cute and amusing how bashful and frustrated Shana gets when she wants to confess to Yuji but just can't bring herself to do so (especially when it has the "Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!" Shana catch-phrase included :D ) , but still... looking at it from a serious (as oppossed to romantic comedy) point of view, it really is about time that Shana verbally admitted her love for Yuji to him.

She gets a bit of a pass from me due to that awful contrivance that Yuji never heard her confess her feelings to him back at the end of Season 1, but still... Kazumi doesn't know that Shana said that to Yuji, just like Yuji himself doesn't.

As far as Yuji is concerned, he clearly wanted to kiss Shana back in Season 1, but she stuffed melon bread into his face instead. Not only that, but she repeatedly said "I'll never do that with you." to Yuji (refering to kissing him).

Honestly, Shana has made some serious mis-steps here, if you look at the romance triangle from a serious POV. Those mis-steps can be good for laughs, but they still have serious implications for the romance triangle.

I really do hope that Yuji will get to hear "I love you, Yuji" from Shana very soon. It's about time (particularly if Shana Season 2 is the last season of the Shana anime), and only after Yuji hears that, and reciprocates in kind, do I blame Kazumi for not giving up on Yuji completely.

[Aquifina]

I thought I would throw in my thoughts about Kazumi. Now I don't even remember the first season much, but all I know is this: Kazumi was my favorite character from season one. That means she must've done something right, because we all know that cuteness by itself can be annoying without the correct personality. Whatever she did last season to impress me, it didn't continue on to this season.

I don't see why you people are bashing her though. I think that it's nothing worse than the average romance anime, and our expectations are just way too high from watching the first season. Looking at season two by itself, the greatest flaw is Konoe (not really, but she got way too much screen time with no plot advancement), because the Kazumi-Shana-Yuji triangle is just a typical love triangle. The problem is people keep asking every episode, "Where's the action?" This means that we're not watching it for the romance, but for the other aspects of Shakugan no Shana. What I'm trying to say is romance, action, and comedy are often separate genres for a reason, and combining them to bring about a great series is a very hard task. The first season succeeded; the second season did not. Maybe the second season in JC Staff's eyes is supposed to be a big split between romance and action, with none of them really mixing. If so, then it's sort of our fault for expecting it not to be that way because of the inevitable comparisons to the first season.

I'm really glad I waited and got to see episodes 20 and 21 though. They were really good.

Kazumi had some of that S1 spirit in the early part of S2--remember when she calls Shana's bullshit for what it is when Shana tries to argue that she shouldn't bring bentos, because it'd affect Yuji's ability to fight. Of course, that's not really the reason why Shana wants her to stop bringing the bentos, and Kazumi does a good job standing up for herself. Shana ends up compromising, and the two come to an interesting understanding.

And then the Konoe arc came, and things got derailed for a bit. While the rest of the series recovered, Kazumi's character also seemed off until this ep., where not only is she useful, but she makes some perceptive comments on Yuji's character at the end.

The Konoe arc was painful, complete with Yuji's sudden mushyheadedness. But I think the series has recovered nicely as of late, and I have high hopes for the remainder of the season. I also think that the writers may redeem themselves, if they make the Konoe arc affect Hecate is some sort of long-term fashion. Like you, I also thought that the main problem with Hecate was serious overexposure. Her integration into the story could have been handled well, but instead we got all that contrived jealousy. That being said, how the season ends will matter more than that rough patch, even if S2 doesn't quite match the excellence of the first season.

[Altima of the Gates]

as for why she is annoying, well i am not saying that she is bad or annoying towards other characters. what i meant was that she is annoying towards us viewers by randomly showing up and repeat the same words and flashbacks again and again. like i said before i wanted to see more than just her saying "i want to be with sakai-kun", i want to see more of her struggles. now i am not a kazumi hater, i like her a lot and that's why i am angry, because i think the anime did her no justice:mad:.

I do have to agree in some ways that the studio could have done some detrimental damage to her character, and yet

I still could see her sacrificing herself for Shana and Yuji. I do not think they have portayed her as any less noble.

so yeah, I agree with you for the most part, cnnydz.
Its that I'm not seeing much difference.

[Whitemoon648]

Yeah, it was a bit sad that Sabrac is already killed after just 2 episodes.

Though if he would have been able to escape, I think it will be hard for them the next time he shows up because Sabrac would think of a strategy to counter their plan to defeat him.

Then pheles-chan would take care of him ( in an epic battle ) *_*. It would have been much better if that happend. That way Pheles would take revenge instead of the trio hazes. Plus i am just guessing the person that Sabrac was reserving Power of existence for was None other than Pheles.

[Darknemo2000]

cnnydz, go to Zero No Tsukaima forum to know how JC Staff can REALLY mess up characters....

I do not think that Kazumi is done all that badly, sure in novels she is much better, but again it is JC Staff and they are not exactly the bests studios here in terms of following novels...

They changed her character made her less interesting, but at least it wasn't the massacre of ZnT. As always, it is bad but it could be worse.

I dont like Kazumi (I like her in novels though) but i do not hate her either. She isnt the strongest character in the anime and can get certainly annoying at some times, but she isnt that bad.

[cnnydz]

cnnydz, go to Zero No Tsukaima forum to know how JC Staff can REALLY mess up characters....



lol i gave up ZnT II a long time ago, never made it pass episode 4.

[Darknemo2000]

You are a wise man, cnnydz, I bow down to your greatness...


If only I was so wise and wouldn't have wasted my time on that crap.

[Sterling01]

You are a wise man, cnnydz, I bow down to your greatness...


If only I was so wise and wouldn't have wasted my time on that crap.
That is why he is known as cnnydz-sama

[Machina]

Best Shana episode ever. I miss Bel-Peol, though, she's too freaking awesome.

[DeotoxSlayer]

You are a wise man, cnnydz, I bow down to your greatness...


If only I was so wise and wouldn't have wasted my time on that crap.

Yeo Cnnydz is really lucky, he could just read the ZnT novels...sadly i'll have to watch ZnT season III...i'm so screwed.

[holyman282]

omg this ep was intense. Sabrac's secret was revealed and he was subsequently defeated. This ep was just all action.

I found it funny in the beginning that Yuji appeared from a sewer hole but it was explained in the end. The scene with Sabrac and Shana fighting the last battle was just awesome, Shana's hair looked so wild and the scene was just so well done.

Next ep it looks like hopefully the Yoshida/Shana thing will finally be resolved... Let's just pray...

Also i felt a bit of nostalgia hearing Shana go urasai urasai urasai!! lol!

[AzoJason]

Great episode, indeed!
But i am still not convinced, that someone like Sabrac gets defeated so easily...
Give me back my favorite char! :upset:

Wilhelmina seems to have a fighting style, thats pretty close to Rifuls! :p

[Eisdrache]

A really good episode, looks we got to see more jam packed episodes full of fighting :D
so after the all this stuff Sabrac, would it be right to say that they will be going up against Bal Masque as we near the end of this series?

I am so tired of posts like this :rolleyes: SnS was never only an action anime, it combined action, romance and comedy all together. A lot of people tend to forget that fact, thats why we always end with "wheres the action, oh no more Kazumi/Konoe, emo Eita (though I agree with this one)" etc after almost every episode.

For the rest I agree with KholdStare 100%.

[Dragon-Emperor]

I am so tired of posts like this :rolleyes: SnS was never only an action anime, it combined action, romance and comedy all together. A lot of people tend to forget that fact, thats why we always end with "wheres the action, oh no more Kazumi/Konoe, emo Eita (though I agree with this one)" etc after almost every episode.

For the rest I agree with KholdStare 100%.

I'm more tired of posts like yours. He never said it was only an 'action anime', or that it ever was. He commented on this episode and what appealed to him (being the action). That being said, just because people do not post ALL the aspects of an anime that exist in their post, it does not mean they are saying they aren't there at all.
He never once even came close to an attempt at defining the series like you seem to be imagining he did. He liked the action in the episode. Which seems appropriate to comment on considering this is a thread on episode 21.

- But yea, fantastic episode. Great action and unfortunately another botched confession by Shana :heh: maybe next time! :)

[Kristen]

I am so tired of posts like this :rolleyes: SnS was never only an action anime, it combined action, romance and comedy all together. A lot of people tend to forget that fact, thats why we always end with "wheres the action, oh no more Kazumi/Konoe, emo Eita (though I agree with this one)" etc after almost every episode.

For the rest I agree with KholdStare 100%.

Well, I say it because I don't really like the romance or comedy elements in Shana. I want action, I complain when I don't get it. It doesn't matter what Shana is supposed to be, if it doesn't satisfy my desires and is boring, then it's a bad episode to me. :p

[Proto]

Well, then maybe Shakugan no Shana isn't really the series you might want your action fix from.

There was an interesting chapter in 'The little prince' by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. When the little prince was visiting different planets, we stumbled upon the planet were a king resided.There the little prince learned about the signficance of being a good leader. For your subordinates to be good subordinates, you have to be a good leader and know to ask the proper orders from them. The king once commented 'Even if I'm an absolute king who no one dares disobey, if I asked my mightiest general to transform into a butterfly, and he dared not follow my order, whose would be the fault? My general's or mine?'

^_^

[holyman282]

The action is good but not essential, more like icing on the cake. What I really want right now is some resolution in terms of the Shana/Yoshida/Yuji love triangle, which i believe will finally be dealt with next ep, about time i say.

[blewin]

awesome episode. Love to see Alastor admitting right out about Yuji's good qualities and how he thinks it's a good idea for Shana and Yuji to pair up. Also, good surprise with Johan's secret weapon.

[Ratix]

Been a while since we've heard Shana's Urusai x3.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

What an outrageous episode. I loved every minute of it. Sabrac is badass. Wilhemina is even more badass. :D 10/10.

[Solais]

Now this episode is 10/10 for me. I've been waiting for an episode like this. Now moving to ep22...

[Un1234l]

Eh-heh... looks like I was one of the few who didn't rate this episode good. Well, I kinda knew I would probably one of the few from even before going on AnimeSuki.

It has all the action, the suspense, and the fanservice! What's there NOT to like?

Ehh while I agree on the action.. i'm not so much for the suspense. And ESPECIALLY the fanservice. It was the main contributor to my low rating really. Seriously, did we have to see Shana's underwear in the middle of a battle? I guess yes, and some people probably liked that. That's very ... primitive I guess.

It also really doesn't make sense how in the battle, Sabrac just stood still during the (AT LEAST) 1 minute conversation going on between Yuuji and Carmel. Seriously, even if it wasn't 1 minute, it would take at least... 45 sec-nvm 1 minute to explain in the basic details about the plan. Sabrac just stood there for that WHOLE minute doing nothing but watching? And one SECOND on the battlefield can make so much of a difference, but SIXTY seconds... damn that's like showing someone you're target practice. It gets me irritated how people in action shows who stand still for that whole minute coincidentally starts to attack the person having a conversation as soon as they finish talking. Such a strange coincidence indeed. What's also strange is how Carmel was talking pretty loudly and Sabrac couldn't hear her. It's strange because Carmel would be talking at around the same volume to Sabrac at a further distance and he could hear what she's saying.

I also don't like the "unrealism" shown and the shounen-typical action used. Ugh. Going back and forth with the main heroes' (HEROES PLUS POSSESSIVE) MASSIVE attacks doing almost nothing to this ONE guy, then someone has a brilliant plan and the attack looks less impressive but manages to catch the villain OFFGUARD (despite seeing it coming from a mile away) and having him standing still throughout the whole ordeal while saying "What?" or "Impossible!". And when I say "unrealism" I mean how something is so IMPOSSIBLE even if it's coming from an anime. Want a comparison? Kenpachi Zaraki (BLEACH) cutting a building in half with his "shorter" sword in one swipe, just to show how badass he is, yet he couldn't even cut a human like that.

Shana pulled a DBZ face. Scary. I at least praise Sabrac for trying to defend himself through some of the attacks, since it is a step up from other action shows.

But I guess all this doesn't apply to just this series/episode, but all other action type shows.

Sorry if I bashed one of your favourite shows/genres, but I really did used to like this series (Season 1). It's a wonder why I'm still following this.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Ehh while I agree on the action.. i'm not so much for the suspense. And ESPECIALLY the fanservice. It was the main contributor to my low rating really. Seriously, did we have to see Shana's underwear in the middle of a battle? I guess yes, and some people probably liked that. That's very ... primitive I guess.

Primitive? You sound like you're nitpicking, and it tells me where your attention lies. Since it wasn't in the face like R+V, there was little distraction, and thus didn't warrant much attention in the first place.

I also don't like the "unrealism" shown and the shounen-typical action used. Ugh. Going back and forth with the main heroes' (HEROES PLUS POSSESSIVE) MASSIVE attacks doing almost nothing to this ONE guy, then someone has a brilliant plan and the attack looks less impressive but manages to catch the villain OFFGUARD (despite seeing it coming from a mile away) and having him standing still throughout the whole ordeal while saying "What?" or "Impossible!". And when I say "unrealism" I mean how something is so IMPOSSIBLE even if it's coming from an anime. Want a comparison? Kenpachi Zaraki (BLEACH) cutting a building in half with his "shorter" sword in one swipe, just to show how badass he is, yet he couldn't even cut a human like that.

Actually, I've made that comparison once personally. You do it on a case-by-case basis and it will look like inconsistent crap. However, you need to take in account that having a series with a few bursts of 'shounen-laden' scenes compared to one with repeated scenes of that is different.

Having massive attacks on Sabrac and yet not showing no effect simply says how powerful Sabrac is, which was why a discovery and a plan were used to take him out.

I attribute his surprise to the fact that he hadn't factored in the possibility that the Mystes had superb senses and analytical abilities (if you consider a Flame Haze's pattern of fighting, they don't ever back down from a full-on confrontation so far, especially with something important at stake). Sabrac's reactions didn't tell me he saw it coming to him a long time ago.

While I agree that the 'shounen-ish' aspect has been played up a little too much, I advise you to get over it. You can continue to nitpick and make the last of the season less enjoyable for yourself of you can brush it off and enjoy the more defining moments of each episode. Your choice.

Sorry if I bashed one of your favourite shows/genres, but I really did used to like this series (Season 1). It's a wonder why I'm still following this.

It's a wonder why you even posted only on this thread if you already had complaints about a minor detail in one episode already.

[The Real Nemo]

I also don't like the "unrealism" shown and the shounen-typical action used. Ugh. Going back and forth with the main heroes' (HEROES PLUS POSSESSIVE) MASSIVE attacks doing almost nothing to this ONE guy, then someone has a brilliant plan and the attack looks less impressive but manages to catch the villain OFFGUARD (despite seeing it coming from a mile away) and having him standing still throughout the whole ordeal while saying "What?" or "Impossible!". And when I say "unrealism" I mean how something is so IMPOSSIBLE even if it's coming from an anime. Want a comparison? Kenpachi Zaraki (BLEACH) cutting a building in half with his "shorter" sword in one swipe, just to show how badass he is, yet he couldn't even cut a human like that.
Shana's attack worked because they'd managed to separate Sabrac from his main body, not because he was caught off guard. And no one Kenpachi ever cut was exactly human.

[Un1234l]

Yeah, sorry. I just felt like I had to let loose once in a while, even if it might seem a bit extreme. For after this rant, I actually appreciated the episode a whole lot more. Works for me eh?

[Triple_R]

Yeah, sorry. I just felt like I had to let loose once in a while, even if it might seem a bit extreme. For after this rant, I actually appreciated the episode a whole lot more. Works for me eh?

Nemo's right on why Shana beat Sabrac in the end, but you do make a good point about how Sabrac was totally left unattended to for almost a minute. That is the one significant flaw in the battle, imo (the rest I'm quite happy with).

It may have been better if someone had been given the role of decoy to distract Sabrac while Yuji/Wilhelmina had their strategy session.

[typhonsentra]

As I said before, this should've been the end of the season. It was a solid conclusion and a pretty intense fight that showed some development for Yuji.

[crystalalien87]

yea i just finished watching it and i was like WOW that was by far the greatest fight ever...

[othera]

^ agreed, sabracs fight was epic... it shoulda been the end episode fight just because its awsome.

[OkamiNoKaze]

Woohoo, what a plan, and even Kazumi was useful in this battle, I thought Shana looked kind odd in the second eyecatch, as well as during her final blow on Sabrac. using the first opening was awesome during that scene I thought. Praise from Alastor and Marco were pretty cool too.
Liked hearing the Urusai, though to me it seemed half hearted.