Clannad - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Clannad, Episode 21.

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Episode 21 will be broadcasted this 14th march at 1:55 AM (Japan Time Zone),
which means this 13th march at 4:55PM (GMT 00).

[Proto]

And so, we enter the last stage of the CLANNAD's school arc. I hope KyoAni decides to go all out here, since this is one of the best parts of the story. I'm still kinda intrigued as to how they will blend the extra characters (Kyou,Ryou and Kotomi) in, so I guess there will be new material for all.

Well then, let the countdown begin.

[MeoTwister5]

At least 24 hours before subs arrive.

Would this be THE School Arc episode for Clannad anime. My fingers are crossed.:p

[Deathscyther]

I don't think that this will be THE school arc episode yet, but we're getting close. I think this will be an episode to build things up, while the climax will be next episode.

I hope to see more Nagisa x Tomoya development this episode as well. I wonder how they'll act around each other, after the 'unofficial confession' of last episode.

[Kristen]

From the title, "Face Towards the School Festival", I think that this should be coming almost to THE school life episode. I think next episode will be THE episode.

[Klashikari]

Well, this time, a cliffhanger episode
Episode 21: bullet summary (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2008/03/13/clannad-episode-21/)

The pace was wonderful, with a steady approach in the end events. The whole cast is working hard, while developments are hardly took aside (Tomoyo's scene is enough to pin point that).
That is to say, it lacked of a tidbit somewhere... but I was really satisfied how they conveyed Nagisa's huge shock, and how they actually give a logical and nice way how she discovered Sanae's and Akio's past (while it was never explained in the game).

[ThoHell]

Hmm...interesting episode. Liked the beginning.

Can't help but to love Tomoyo, she's immaturity covered up by straight forwardness combined with an act of maturity. I wonder if that made any sense? She said something interesting that I think all the girls agree on.

Nagi......got patted on the head......like a little kid/dog...by an underclassman. I find that weird.

A few more episodes to go. Oh and yeah, I so hate cliffhangers very much!

Oh question: Since when do people do stretches like for PE or before physical sports before verbal rehearsing?

[Proto]

Patting on the head is saw as a signal of affection in Japanese society though, not restricted to dogs or children.

[monir]

Oh question: Since when do people do stretches like for PE or before physical sports before verbal rehearsing?
When someone is very very nervous! Strteching may help to dispel that nervous energy. I myself used to talk loud right before an exam. For some odd reason, my friends avoided me during midterms and finals.

Looking forward to seeing the episode.

[ThoHell]

Patting on the head is saw as a signal of affection in Japanese society though, not restricted to dogs or children.

Yeah I kind of guess that seeing it done so much, but over here I hardly know anyone who would tolerate someone doing that to them, even I would. Basic instinct/reaction to being patted on the head: slap the hand away. Guess some just find it disrespectful while others find it affectionate. Doing it to a little kid is different from doing it to the older.

Who likes being patted on the head?

[Kaisos Erranon]

Yeah I kind of guess that seeing it done so much, but over here I hardly know anyone who would tolerate someone doing that to them, even I would. Basic instinct/reaction to being patted on the head: slap the hand away. Guess some just find it disrespectful while others find it affectionate. Doing it to a little kid is different from doing it to the older.

Who likes being patted on the head?

I pat people on the head all the time. Most of them are like 4 years younger and 10 inches shorter than me though, so there's not much they can do about it.

[kimchipride]

Clannad is a disappointment. We are almost on the last episode.
Where's the drama like Kanon?
Where's the sadness like Kanon?

I feel that Clannad is leagues away from Kanon.

[ThoHell]

Clannad is a disappointment. We are almost on the last episode.
Where's the drama like Kanon?
Where's the sadness like Kanon?

I feel that Clannad is leagues away from Kanon.

You liek sad stuff don't you?

WELL I DON'T!!!! HOHOHO, j/k. But really I don't like sad stuff. Next episode should be some what emo or dramatic...I think.......

[Proto]

Hmm... maybe it was because you missed one of the warnings game players made when CLANNAD was starting. CLANNAD is not about the drama. CLANNAD is not about sadness. On the contrary, CLANNAD is a story about happiness and hope, and the path we have to take to attain them. jun Maeda wanted to explore different thematics with CLANNAD than what he had done with AIR and KANON. I think you are just expecting the wrong things :p

[Kaisos Erranon]

Clannad is a disappointment. We are almost on the last episode.
Where's the drama like Kanon?
Where's the sadness like Kanon?

I feel that Clannad is leagues away from Kanon.

Season Two?

I actually feel that drama and sadness are something that Clannad doesn't really need to be good... it's simply a love story and not really a harem drama like Kanon.

That being said, I actually need to watch Kanon...

[Shinigami_Mello]

Clannad is a disappointment. We are almost on the last episode.
Where's the drama like Kanon?
Where's the sadness like Kanon?

I feel that Clannad is leagues away from Kanon.

Clannad is, compared to Kanon, a more happier story.
If you DO want drama, then hope they animate the After Story some day, which I find much better than Kanon all together in some ways. (no offense intended as I love Kanon)
I find Clannad much better than Kanon. It isnt as melodramatic and does a great job of making me laugh : D

Anyway, I still havnt seen the episode. I cant wait to watch it <3

[Makoto_Must_DIE]

Clannad is a disappointment. We are almost on the last episode.
Where's the drama like Kanon?
Where's the sadness like Kanon?

I feel that Clannad is leagues away from Kanon.


Has Kanon become the new Evanegelion in which every anime in the romance genre will be measured against?

I like the direction this show is going. It's a not trying to make me utterly sad like it did during the Fuko arc. Something that can make me laugh and smile is also good.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Has Kanon become the new Evanegelion in which every anime in the romance genre will be measured against.

I have no idea why Eva is considered so amazing by everybody. It's not.

Sure, it's interesting at times, but nothing special.

[ThoHell]

I have no idea why Eva is considered so amazing by everybody. It's not.

Sure, it's interesting at times, but nothing special.

Me personally, I had no interest in it nor do I think it was good. But the way it was done/laid out was creative. It may have not been good in my eyes, but I do realize it's creativity.

[Rembr]

Kanon was okay.

Clannad is okay too.

Only one (well, I guess two or even three) episode left to squeeze in that Sunohara epilogue... Here's hoping.

Oh, episode 21 was okay.

[Kristen]

Oh question: Since when do people do stretches like for PE or before physical sports before verbal rehearsing?

I know that when I used to perform in musicals, the vocal director always made us stretch physically. It loosens up the lungs and gives you maximum breathing room. And for acting, we used to stretch again, even if we were just speaking, because it gets the adrenahline flowing in a not so dangerous way.

[minhtam1638]

Oh question: Since when do people do stretches like for PE or before physical sports before verbal rehearsing?

Hey, let me tell you something. There are times when I do sing for a youth choir, and stretching actually helps you breathe better, making your voice able to contain itself for a long period of time. Trust me. It works a lot.

And I play the guitar while I sing too. It's not easy.

[Zenemis]

Wow, that's a nicely animated, depressed Nagisa :(

[panzerfan]

This episode was quite... something.

Yes, having been in choir and in concert orchestra, I can appreciate why you need to stretch and maintain good posture for this sort of things. Lung capacity is adversely affected by your physical condition, as well as tone quality, overall projection and to hold onto a note long enough.

Nagisa finally has come to realize the rather macabre fact regarding her parents. I think this is something that I will be thinking about going into the next episode of Clannad.

[harukamae]

Only one (well, I guess two or even three) episode left to squeeze in that Sunohara epilogue... Here's hoping.


LMAO. Completely clueless on this, so I have this image of Sunohara prancing out on-stage at the School Festival like Puck from Midsummer Night's Dream to wrap it all up...

[Leo_Otaku]

I agree that this was a good episode and fit together nicely. I wonder if theyw ill sum of the Illusionary World in the next ep? I really want to see her play XD We didn't really get to "see her" perform it.

As for sunohara epilouge well you can maybe hope for that in the after story....

[Proto]

What a good episode it was. KyoAni really knew how to blend the extended cast in. The adapted parts were done quite well, and what original material was put in was quite well done. And so, we enter one of my favorite parts of the game. Normally I'd hope for them not to screw it, but in this case I know I can keep my expectations high.

[mandarb916]

uh...i thought clannad was 24 or 26eps...it's 22??

from an individual story standpoint, most eps up to 21 have been pretty decent (admittedly, I don't think the flag breaking episode was done well) but....all things considered, with only one more ep left (does this count as a spoiler? >.>) I think overall it's an adaptation that had some shoes to fill and didn't in the end...unless S2 is announced :/

[Mirrinus]

I doubt the show will even touch upon the after story in the last episode. All we can hope for now is an eventual After Story continuation in a later season.

[IRJustman]

uh...i thought clannad was 24 or 26eps...it's 22??

I've heard that this part will be 24 episodes, with the first 22 being shown on-air as a normal series, 23 as a special episode in the very near future, then 24 as a DVD-only episode.

We've been talking amongst ourselves in our effort about how they're hoping to do After Story within the confines of a 24-episode series. We came to the conclusion that they will not do it (for now) for a number of reasons:


After Story alone is about a third of the game's total story space. And you can't properly conclude CLANNAD without it.
After Story can best be described as the "heart and soul" of CLANNAD as I've been able to gather.
As such, to tell the story properly, you simply can't do it in a single episode or even a three-to-six-episode OVA. I've been told it effectively needs, at a bare minimum, twelve episodes.

We've more or less said from the outset that any effort to animate CLANNAD would be something very ambitious due to the sheer volume of story. As for the movie, that's a matter best saved for a more apropos thread. ;)

--Ian.

[mandarb916]

I've heard that this part will be 24 episodes, with the first 22 being shown on-air as a normal series, 23 as a special episode in the very near future, then 24 as a DVD-only episode.

We've been talking amongst ourselves in our effort about how they're hoping to do After Story within the confines of a 24-episode series. We came to the conclusion that they will not do it (for now) for a number of reasons:


After Story alone is about a third of the game's total story space. And you can't properly conclude CLANNAD without it.
After Story can best be described as the "heart and soul" of CLANNAD as I've been able to gather.
As such, to tell the story properly, you simply can't do it in a single episode or even a three-to-six-episode OVA. I've been told it effectively needs, at a bare minimum, twelve episodes.

We've more or less said from the outset that any effort to animate CLANNAD would be something very ambitious due to the sheer volume of story. As for the movie, that's a matter best saved for a more apropos thread. ;)

--Ian.

Well...AS is somewhat of an infinite loop, which can be truncated so I'm assuming 12ep = removal of loops and consolidating...but yeah it can be insanely long.

[MeoTwister5]

Technically, playing After Story does involve doing some sections again and looping through the game to see all the endings. Seeing as that would be absurd in an anime, you can consolidate all those events into a single timeline ans thus reduce the number of episodes. This leaves us with one critical question.

Which ending of Clannad are they going to give us?

Please dear God don't give me the normal ending. I almost couldn't deal with it the first time, and I'd hate KyoAni if they did it this time.

[Klashikari]

Let's just avoid the borderline spoilerish discussion here, shall we?
There is obviously no way After Story will be seen anytime soon, so let's just wait for the end of the school life period.

As for your question, MeoTwister, check the spoiler thread.

[Jimmy C]

Nagisa is so sad right now, she's in the perfect state of mind for her play. If she doesn't fumble her lines.

[hai_san]

lol the tongue twister at the beginning was ....:p:p:p

[Hypernova]

Why do I feel a yandereish vibe from that pic?
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9137/snapshotoh8.jpg

[Moridin]

Im not done with watching the epiode yet, but i just saw an interesting thing. At around 12:00 minutes, when everybody is preparing for the play, there is a quick glance of Nagisa and Tomoya watching tv......isnt that AIR TV that they are watching??! :D

[SSJiffy]

Im not done with watching the epiode yet, but i just saw an interesting thing. At around 12:00 minutes, when everybody is preparing for the play, there is a quick glance of Nagisa and Tomoya watching tv......isnt that AIR TV that they are watching??! :D

The one with the woman clasping her hands together before her chest and a blue contrast foreground? Yeah, I don't know if that's AIR TV and if so, who is that?:confused:

[Zenemis]

I'd like to see Tomoya on the computer, playing his own After Story.

[Moridin]

The one with the woman clasping her hands together before her chest and a blue contrast foreground? Yeah, I don't know if that's AIR TV and if so, who is that?:confused:

yes, that is the one i am reffering to :)
Im guessing its Uraha, the woman that takes care of Kanna

[Sheba]

Why do I feel a yandereish vibe from that pic?


Because two of Mai Nakahara's roles came to fame for their emo facial distortions?

[Deathscyther]

Nice episode:)

The side-characters were given bigger roles than in the game and I'm all for that. The pacing was quite nice as well, and I do like that they explained how Nagisa found out about Akio and Sanae's pasts.

The first few minutes had quite a lot of 'fanservice' with Kotomi, Ryou and Kyou stretching and such:p

Can't wait for next episode.

[Ascaloth]

Watched the TWH-Sprocket sub of Episode 21.

The first few minutes just about turned my brain to mush. :heh:

Otherwise, pretty slow episode with little going on. 8/10.

Blog article coming tonight.

[Ruhisu]

This episode leaves big misteriours atmosphere because Nagisa finds out the past of her parents so we don't know how she will handle her play.

[Kristen]

This was another very nice episode. It portrays a very warm sort of feeling, a lot how 20 did.

Well, first, did anyone notice the notebook at 17:56? It says on it "Hikarizaka High School Drama Club". So, this story takes place somewhere called Hikarizaka, since I cannot see them naming the high school after anything else.

It was interesting seeing everyone recite that tongue twister in unison. All the various voices meshing together, it was just perfect! Very symbolic of how everyone has joined forces for one very nonsensical girl. :p

Kotomi-chan actually made a couple non-filler comments this week, which was good. And, I'll have to wait for the screentime post, but I think this was enough to leap her over Fuuko. :)

Really, I'm finding this adaptation of the drama club to be better than the game itself. It's showing Nagisa with support, instead of trying to conquer something alone with just her boyfriend and some doofus who decided to come along. I find it to just be more powerful, and more beautiful.

And glasses Tomoyo really looks like a grandmother, thanks to her grey hair. :p

Anyways, 9/10. This episode was nice and beautiful, a lot like a largo in a symphony, but I thought it was moving a little too slow at times.

[Takuto19]

9/10 for me.

Was a great episode but never had the feeling that some other episodes did, really enjoyed it though and looking forward to next weeks, 3 episodes left and doesn't look like there going to do any After Story at all.

[Sammich]

Great episode.. Only they cut off the picnic >.<
I was hoping a certain part of the game would be animated but I was wrong, sadly. :P
I bet the Megane Tomoyo pictures are flying around as I'm writing this.. :D
The 'I'm glad it's you' comment Tomoyo made to Nagisa was great, it closed things off a bit more in a sense; and in a good way.
The pace was great this episode but why haven't Tomoya and Nagisa hooked up yet? :heh:
I liked how they handled Nagisa finding out about her parents' past; a slight amount of foreboding, followed by misleading the viewer into thinking it may not happen after all and then making your heart sink when Nagisa goes to get a flashlight. :(
At any rate, I'm sure the ending of this season (*crosses fingers*) will be epic.

One thing though, why is Kyou standing in the rain in the OP when we're not going to see that in the anime at all? I really thought they'd show more of her story because of that scene...

Oh, and the camerangle after the OP with Ryou and Kotomi certainly was.... interesting. >.>
And WHAT is Akio... err, smoking, at around 6 minutes into the episode? o.0

[arkxkra]

1 more episode, will be the end of the current story >.<", so fast, I will miss it, hopefully will have 2nd season of Clannad(AS). So the last 2 episode will be other story?

Tomoyo wearing spec also not bad :love:.

Nagisa now blame herself after knowing her parent give up their dream for her, Tomoya should be the one cheer her up. hopefully she can do well in the stage in next episode.

BTW, Tomoya and Nagisa no yet officialy a couple, when will the time for the real confession >.<".

looking forward to next episode.

[DragoonKain3]

Meganekko Tomoyo = <3. Almost up to Kotomi in my moe meter again lol.

But really though, I dunno, but I feel so detached to both Tomoya and Nagisa now. Heck, that applies to all characters but Sunohara, who didn't get screentime. So yeah, I was half bored watching this episode. And if the next episode has something drastic happening, I dunno if I would actually feel anything at all to these characters. Oh well, nothing to do but wait and see.

[Kinny Riddle]

Please do not watch Clannad thinking it is another tear-inducer like AIR or Kanon, it is not. If you think it is, of course you will be justifiably disappointed, because you're looking at it from a different perspective which is not what the creators have intended.

Though if you're just looking for a good story to tell, regardless of it being happy or sad, then Clannad is a safe bet for you.

The first few minutes with the camera angles on Ryou and Kotomi was, interesting. And finally, we get to see Megane Tomoyo FTW. :love:

They're no doubt saving Tomoya's confession for Nagisa for the climax at the end of next episode, though in the game, they're already hanging out together for sometime.

Unlike the game, the Drama Club now certainly look more like a school club with Kyou, Ryou and Kotomi involved. Guess you need at least 5 people for a school club to be decently lively, much like the "infamous" SOS Brigade. :cool:

It was the most unfortunate of coincidences that led Nagisa to find out about her parents sacrificing their dreams for her, no doubt shaking her confidence greatly just before she was about to fulfill her dream of performing for the Drama Club. Poor girl.

(BTW, doesn't Sanae-san look incredibly young in one of the photos carrying baby Nagisa? She hardly ages. Neither does Akio, for that matter. )

[grey_moon]

Glasses *drool*
Glasses are so sexy *drool*
Tomoyo looks so :love:

The tongue twister training session was mad. I hope they release the out takes to them trying to record that :heh:

I am fearing a power tear fest next epi, I'm going to make sure I got plenty of snot rags ready...

[Bankai29]

Tomoyo and Sanae = HAWTTTTTTTTT:p

[Deathkillz]

I honestly saw that coming from a mile away...but I can't say that it wasn't well done, though I still prefer some shock as the emotion from nagisa seems somewhat played down...or was she too shocked to speak. Ouch @ the angst akio must be feeling. I didn't expect him to have been an actor for one thing.

Depressed Nagisa in the preview is depressed. I wonder how they are going to pull this one off.

As for the rest of the ep it was fairly standard stuff. Nothing outstanding and somewhat slow paced. The tongue twister made no sense but was just funny to listen...and then there's tomoyo :love:

[Yukinokesshou]

Nagi......got patted on the head......like a little kid/dog...by an underclassman. I find that weird.

Weird? I always thought patpat was rather normal... I like patting and being patted. It feels nice :p

However, it IS easy to forget that Nagisa is actually two years older than Tomoyo!

Whatever leh, this episode very touching one ^^ (I give it 8 because at my university, a 70% is A or first class honours, the average mark is around 55% and maybe 5 people out of 100 get 80% or more.)

[Proto]

Hmm... I wonder why some people are criticizing the episode for being slow pased and uneventful. I myself would praise the character for being slow pased, and slice-of-life'ish uneventful. CLANNAD isn't an action flick, and while we might argue it is drama based and drama asks for things to happen on a more frequent basis, I'd say that drama is not the main theme CLANNAD revolves around. In the school arc it is something much more simple, yet much more meaningful, and that is growing up. Growing up is much more about sharing your memories with the people around you through day-to-day, common, simple events, and IMHO the episode succeeded at showing so.

[IRJustman]

Why do I feel a yandereish vibe from that pic?
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9137/snapshotoh8.jpg

I don't think she's going to pull a Ryugu Rena (who's also voiced by Nakahara Mai). Her personality just does not seem right for this.

Not to mention, if she were this nutso, After Story wouldn't even take place.

--Ian.

[Ascaloth]

Blog article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD (TV), Episode 21 (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1005)

Warning: May contain traces of sociological rambling.

[kininku buster]

Weird? I always thought patpat was rather normal... I like patting and being patted. It feels nice :p

However, it IS easy to forget that Nagisa is actually two years older than Tomoyo!

Whatever leh, this episode very touching one ^^ (I give it 8 because at my university, a 70% is A or first class honours, the average mark is around 55% and maybe 5 people out of 100 get 80% or more.)

When I had met a girl at my job a few years ago I used to do the same thing. But she was 2 years older than me (she was 22) and she didn't like that at all.:(

[Rembr]

Hmm... I wonder why some people are criticizing the episode for being slow pased and uneventful. I myself would praise the character for being slow pased, and slice-of-life'ish uneventful. CLANNAD isn't an action flick, and while we might argue it is drama based and drama asks for things to happen on a more frequent basis, I'd say that drama is not the main theme CLANNAD revolves around. In the school arc it is something much more simple, yet much more meaningful, and that is growing up. Growing up is much more about sharing your memories with the people around you through day-to-day, common, simple events, and IMHO the episode succeeded at showing so.The fact that they made what I'm thinking is supposed to be an emotional scene at the end in such a slow pace overall killed a lot of dramatic reaction.

Not to mention I really don't get why Nagisa would be so hung up about this. I guess that is where she needs to be growing up.

[Mirrinus]

I didn't think the end of the episode with Nagisa's discovery of her parents' past was slow-paced at all. It was understated, to be sure, but to good effect. It gave the audience time to imagine their own notion of how Nagisa would react as she came to discover the journal and albums, what with the whole blatant Chekhov's gun and all.

[Kinny Riddle]

Weird? I always thought patpat was rather normal... I like patting and being patted. It feels nice :p

However, it IS easy to forget that Nagisa is actually two years older than Tomoyo!


Heh, Tomoya's narrative i the visual novel also makes a mention of that: "What are you grinning like a kid for? You're her sempai, by two years as well." :D

So does this mean Tomoya have a thing for older girls or what? :heh:

[pac2is]

Lol who havent? :heh:
I also would like a girl 2 years older than meh -_-'

[*Forte*]

Clannad characters will wear this? Oh my god I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://aycu13.webshots.com/image/45892/2004269823993229058_rs.jpg

[Klashikari]

Clannad characters will wear this? Oh my god I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope, only Nagisa will do so.

[pac2is]

Clannad characters will wear this? Oh my god I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://aycu13.webshots.com/image/45892/2004269823993229058_rs.jpg

Err..Kanon uniform? It looks like Air uniform to meh ;P

[pac2is]

Ah goumen goumen ^___^' nvm, it does look like kanon uniform :P

[Furudanuki]

And WHAT is Akio... err, smoking, at around 6 minutes into the episode? o.0
Dried octopus or squid, though since it is pinkish in color I would put my money on octopus. I hope he is eating rather than smoking it!

[hachihachi]

i cannot remember that uniform from kanon at all......
after watching clannad the movie a few days ago and watching the drama OP, i think the little girl is who she is. hmmmmmm..........the preview says last episode, but it doesn't feel like it.

[*Forte*]

Well, sorry, just Nagisa wears it and it's a bit longer...the color is different but the style exactly the same ^o^

I was waiting for seeing Kyou/Tomoyo in it...*cries*

[Kristen]

Err..Kanon uniform? It looks like Air uniform to meh ;P

It's neither, actually. :p It's just cute. ^_^

[Avisch]

Err..Kanon uniform? It looks like Air uniform to meh ;P

Really? Cause Air's uniforms look like Maid clothes to me

[Sute443]

That uniform is definitely from neither Kanon nor Air. Kanon's uniforms are RED. Air's are BLACK. The costume Nagisa has is GREEN. Although I can see how the bow and the... I'm going to go with kerchief, are reminiscent of Kanon. Still, they are very different.

[KholdStare]

10/10

I loved this episode simply because I enjoyed it.

[mikesince83]

Hmm... I wonder why some people are criticizing the episode for being slow pased and uneventful. I myself would praise the character for being slow pased, and slice-of-life'ish uneventful.

CLANNAD is unique here in that Nagisa's arc, being the end of the season, is not the climax in terms of drama. Other characters, particularly Fuuko and Kotomi, dealt with considerably more difficult issues. Traditionally the most dramatic moments are towards the end, so it's only natural for viewers to feel things are out of place or slow.

CLANNAD isn't an action flick, and while we might argue it is drama based and drama asks for things to happen on a more frequent basis, I'd say that drama is not the main theme CLANNAD revolves around. In the school arc it is something much more simple, yet much more meaningful, and that is growing up. Growing up is much more about sharing your memories with the people around you through day-to-day, common, simple events, and IMHO the episode succeeded at showing so.

Drama is the primary method in which the theme is developed/presented.

[Masterkeyes2]

I actually enjoyed the episode, if only for the end. For most of it I was thinking "Wow every is going so well...so when does the giant hammer of PWN fly down from the sky and mess everything up?" and of course Nagisa just happens to stumble upon the pictures and albums of her father and mother....it was like watching a train wreck....ah drama.

[Kakon]

episode 21 does not have much lovey dovey stuff as some episodes did, its the school arc now(and the serious stuff is coming in).
looking forward to the next episode!

[AuditionEX]

Sunohara Gay end = Ep 23? O_o

Hmm... very good episode. just okay.

[kyouray]

episode 21 was good :)

and fanservice !

http://pix.nofrag.com/8/0/7/88e377d2d5b2bd4157912a13b143e.jpg

[Kaisos Erranon]

Pacing is fine... if they didn't have ONE EPISODE LEFT.

*cough*

But besides that, good episode. Akio was, as usual, amazing. I love the way he greets Nagisa when she comes home from school.

Though I still fail to see how they're going to conclude anything properly within ONE EPISODE.

[KholdStare]

How will they conclude this in one episode? Well, it's called placing our hopes in KyoAni. If it is any other studio, then probably not, but since it's KyoAni, why not? I'm not going to feel drastically disappointed if it ended badly, since after all, the first 21 episodes of Clannad was very enjoyable.

[Sorrow-K]

For a penultimate episode, that certainly lacked urgency. It demonstrates a massive difference between Clannad and Kanon that's already been pointed out, in that Clannad is much more a slice-of-life, and doesn't have anywhere near as much of the pathos and heavy drama of its predecessor. Which is fine. As others have said in this thread, it's exploring themes, such as family and loneliness. And the relationship development has been outstanding. All the important characters have changed in ways that are clear. Tomoyo was the obvious example in this episode, but Nagisa was the much more subtle one. A few times they pointed out just how much she's changed since the beginning of the story, but it's worth pointing out again.

I love how so much of the story is told through gestures. A look, a pat on the head, a character staying quiet in a certain situation, so much of the characters can be read from how their body language or their gestures, rather than just what they say. This is an aspect that KyoAni seem to do really well in all their anime. If you just listen to dialogue, you miss a lot of the story, so there's a certain subtlety to the storytelling, but at the same time each of these gestures have a clear meaning, so it's not so overly subtle that things don't make sense.

Well, most things anyway. A minor one, but I have no idea why Kyou stuck out her tongue while they were talking about Tomoyo getting contact lenses.

Anyway, I think it's almost a good thing that the dramatic intensity in this hasn't been as high as we typically see in Key stories. A heavy plot-twist now will just be jarring. It's a very different anime from Kanon, and that's all there is to it.

A minor criticism... the not-terribly-explicit fanservice towards the beginning of the episode really felt out of place. It reminded me of that scene in the first episode of Kanon where they showed Nayuki in a bra for some reason that made no sense. It's like KyoAni has to have a nonchalant fanservice scene once every season. I mean, I can understand a bit of fanservice when they're playing it for laughs, eg, all those jokes in Haruhi, and the scene where Kyou and Tomoya got trapped in the storeroom. But these types of scenes are just confusing. It's like they're saying "here, have a fanservice scene, but it doesn't really serve any purpose, so just pretend you don't notice"...

[brocko]

A minor criticism... the not-terribly-explicit fanservice towards the beginning of the episode really felt out of place. It reminded me of that scene in the first episode of Kanon where they showed Nayuki in a bra for some reason that made no sense. It's like KyoAni has to have a nonchalant fanservice scene once every season. I mean, I can understand a bit of fanservice when they're playing it for laughs, eg, all those jokes in Haruhi, and the scene where Kyou and Tomoya got trapped in the storeroom. But these types of scenes are just confusing. It's like they're saying "here, have a fanservice scene, but it doesn't really serve any purpose, so just pretend you don't notice"...

I totally agree with you on this point and it just feels really out of place. I guess the animators felt they had to give the fanboys something in return due to their favoured heroines lack of screentime during these past few eps.

[Leo_Otaku]

Kyo ani is known for showing the scenes nobody really does animate. Like piro using his litter box and so forth .....

[Aquifina]

I love how so much of the story is told through gestures. A look, a pat on the head, a character staying quiet in a certain situation, so much of the characters can be read from how their body language or their gestures, rather than just what they say. This is an aspect that KyoAni seem to do really well in all their anime. If you just listen to dialogue, you miss a lot of the story, so there's a certain subtlety to the storytelling, but at the same time each of these gestures have a clear meaning, so it's not so overly subtle that things don't make sense.



I also noticed the subtle gestures. That look Tomoyo gave Tomoya right after she entered the room, and then her comments to Nagisa about her being glad that she was the one, or something to that effect. Also, Tomoyo's glance at Nagisa. It was all very well done, and it makes me happy that I stuck with the series, even though I found some of it a bit much in the early going.

[todkapuz]

I really liked some of the little details they threw in this episode to make me smile. :)

I dunno... a little sad that AS will not make an appearance in the main line, but I think, honestly, that ending the series with the play is the right choice for what they are trying to do... so to that end, the elements that we got in this episode are perfect...

Well I dunno.. the fan-service part right after the OP.. not sure :) hehe but the shock of her having not seen a play before was funny :) poor Ossan. Of course without the AS, we're going to miss out a bit of his story... but it's nice we're starting to flesh him out more....

The discovery scene was perfect to me.. even if Nagisa doesnt understand .... and the line from Sanae-san.

[Ketro]

Pacing is fine... if they didn't have ONE EPISODE LEFT.

*cough*

But besides that, good episode. Akio was, as usual, amazing. I love the way he greets Nagisa when she comes home from school.

Though I still fail to see how they're going to conclude anything properly within ONE EPISODE.

Yeah, Im thinking that too, its going to be really hard to cram in all that stuff in that last episode. When is episode 22 coming out anyways?

[Kaisos Erranon]

Yeah, Im thinking that too, its going to be really hard to cram in all that stuff in that last episode. When is episode 22 coming out anyways?

Next... Thursday?

[MaxwellDemon]

Personally I think this episode wasn't as much of a waste as some people had blogged about. The moment when Tomoyo said that she was glad it was Nagisa instead, it wrapped most of the arcs up in a very fine sense to me. :)

Of course, I can understand how most people think next episode will be a total flop, especially if they know what happens in the game. Disregarding the details however in the games, I am sure KyoAni could end this in a satisfying notes. Of course, I am afraid it just won't be something everyone would be happy about. :heh:

[acrana]

For a penultimate episode, that certainly lacked urgency. It demonstrates a massive difference between Clannad and Kanon that's already been pointed out, in that Clannad is much more a slice-of-life, and doesn't have anywhere near as much of the pathos and heavy drama of its predecessor. Which is fine. As others have said in this thread, it's exploring themes, such as family and loneliness. And the relationship development has been outstanding. All the important characters have changed in ways that are clear. Tomoyo was the obvious example in this episode, but Nagisa was the much more subtle one. A few times they pointed out just how much she's changed since the beginning of the story, but it's worth pointing out again.

I love how so much of the story is told through gestures. A look, a pat on the head, a character staying quiet in a certain situation, so much of the characters can be read from how their body language or their gestures, rather than just what they say. This is an aspect that KyoAni seem to do really well in all their anime. If you just listen to dialogue, you miss a lot of the story, so there's a certain subtlety to the storytelling, but at the same time each of these gestures have a clear meaning, so it's not so overly subtle that things don't make sense.

Well, most things anyway. A minor one, but I have no idea why Kyou stuck out her tongue while they were talking about Tomoyo getting contact lenses.

Anyway, I think it's almost a good thing that the dramatic intensity in this hasn't been as high as we typically see in Key stories. A heavy plot-twist now will just be jarring. It's a very different anime from Kanon, and that's all there is to it.

A minor criticism... the not-terribly-explicit fanservice towards the beginning of the episode really felt out of place. It reminded me of that scene in the first episode of Kanon where they showed Nayuki in a bra for some reason that made no sense. It's like KyoAni has to have a nonchalant fanservice scene once every season. I mean, I can understand a bit of fanservice when they're playing it for laughs, eg, all those jokes in Haruhi, and the scene where Kyou and Tomoya got trapped in the storeroom. But these types of scenes are just confusing. It's like they're saying "here, have a fanservice scene, but it doesn't really serve any purpose, so just pretend you don't notice"...

That is the thing though, Clannad does have lot of drama (Its mostly in After story that the big is remember school life isnt the end of the story). But I guess since they figured they dont have that many episodes to do it theyll just end it this way.

[KholdStare]

I think that it is very important to just drop the Kanon vs. Clannad comparison now, or else we will be very disappointed. It is so obvious that episode 22 of Clannad is going to be much less dramatic than the ending of Kanon, and also, the overall feeling of Clannad is more relaxing, euphoric, and comedic than the feeling of Kanon. Let's think through this logically. If Kanon didn't exist, or the visual novel didn't exist, how good would this episode be? Some of you mentioned how subtlety, such as gestures and combination of different arcs, is an important aspect in Clannad, moving the plot along in a slow and carefree way. Well, that's Clannad. Forget Kanon; I expect Clannad to end on a soft note with a slight touch of drama. Forget the game; I expect the anime to not follow it. Clannad is Clannad, and I didn't go into Nodame Cantabile's last episode thinking how it better be the same as the last episode of Shakugan no Shana.

And the fanservice is there for those who wants to notice it. I personally did not, because I was so absorbed into its subtle suspense and great storytelling. I love pretty much everything about this anime, and the last thing I want to happen is for it to attempt to be something it's not.

Just my thoughts. ~

[Mirrinus]

Like I've been saying all along, people will either complain that it's too much like Kanon, or it's not enough like Kanon.

Just watch it for what it is, not for what it is not.

*praying for a second season for the After Story*

Although in my cynicism, I'm content with moving on.

[ZXValaRevan]

I found it without any particular flaw, or part I disliked. The minor fanservice got a giggle or two out of me, and the rest of the episode followed regular Clannad brilliance. 10/10

But it does seem like there's not enough time left.

[Codine]

Wow only 22 episodes? Ending feels like its going to be rushed. I was kind of hoping for more from this anime. There were so many characters but they cleared their arcs in a few episodes and wasted like half of them on the most minor character of all. Oh well all that I'm asking for in 22 is that Sunohara gets smacked around some more.

[KholdStare]

Interestingly, I think that Kyou is the only person who calls Youhei "Youhei." It's just a fun fact that I just realized this episode for some weird reason. But of course, Kyou calls everyone by their first name (without honorifics), so never mind.

And Youhei is by far one of the best supporting characters I've seen in any anime. This is one of the reason why I love Clannad. Its slow pace makes it possible to explore many of the characters without leaving one in the dark somehow. Even though many of you complain that some of the arcs were rushed, I feel like I know everything that needs to be known about Kyou/Ryou/Tomoyo, and that nothing is left out.

[viny]

Nagisa:I've never seen a play before...
LOLZ

pretty good episode in general. Not much NagisaXTomoya though...

Love how this episode endned with
Nagisa finding out abt her parents' past

[ZODDGUTS]

Decent episode didn't have that big impact at the end though just didn't feel it.

Also have to say that so far I have found Clannad to be fairly dissaponting. I really liked Air and Kannon but with Clannad I found it to be rather lacking in something that those two series had.

Sure the first 12 episodes for Kannon not much happened but it paid off big time in the 2nd half of the series when things started rolling because all of the characters were already well developed. But in Clannad nothing as big has happened and haven't found all the arcs to be all that great Fuko's arc lasted too long, Kotomi's arc was alright I guess but didn't comapre to any of the arcs to the other series, Tomoyo arc was rather short didn't have much impact and so far Nagisa's arc doesn't really affect me much.

And with only one more episode left doubt it will change my mind as to how I feel about this series. Not to say it's bad it just doesn't compare to that "epic" emotinal roller coaster to Air and Kanon.

[Zenemis]

Clannad was never meant to be a depressing show; I think you might be looking for something that was never intended.

[ZODDGUTS]

Clannad was never meant to be a depressing show; I think you might be looking for something that was never intended.

I guess you may be right. But the series lead me to believe otherwise that this series would be a drama especially because of Fuko arc since there was a lot of drama in it so early on especially compared to Kannon which nothing much happened in the first 12 episodes...

[Yukinokesshou]

I don't really understand all the enthusiasm about Kanon. Why is it placed on a pedestal, and everything measured against it? Honestly speaking, I didn't enjoy Kanon that much. Don't get me wrong, I like drama. I loved Air TV and 1 Litre of Tears, for instance.

But... the drama in Kanon just didn't touch me at all. It seemed forced and artificial in a "one girl done, next girl, moving on" sort of way, and then one miracle solves EVERYTHING. I cringed whenever Yuuichi shouted "Ayu, AYU, AYUUUU" in the first adaptation (5 times? or more?). The Kyo Ani adaptation was more understated and beautiful but there was only so much Kyo Ani could do to what - in my opinion - was a mediocre plot. It's one of those series I can watch only once. I watched Air three times, and I think I've already watched episodes 1-19 of Clannad twice!

Then and again, from what I've read, I think the drama in Clannad's After Story beats all of them hands down... so I must say I'm a tad disappointed :(

lim (Clannad + After Story / Kanon) = infinity

[Shiori-chan]

enjoyed this episode and was really moved by how everybody helps nagisa (in some way) to make her play a succes, and nagisa doing all what she can to make a nice play, hopefully for her she can forget what she saw in the end of this episode or tomoya cheering her up or something

[MeoTwister5]

The scene that pretty much affirms the obvious tension between Tomoya and Nagisa has really yet to materialize. In the game it happened a lot earlier, but it seems KyoAni has its own idea when "it" becomes "official".

I put my money on it happening after the play, and Tomoya making the first move.:heh:

[Deathscyther]

Well, to have a satisfying end to this season (especially if there won't be a second season. I still believe that we will have a second season for after story though) they'll have to wrap things up in some way. And the nagisa x tomoya relationship has been one of the main point in the anime so far, so I guess that some sort of confession is needed in this final episode.

But with all the 'illusionary world' scenes they have been showing us throughout the series, a second season seems likely. after all...we haven't seen all the illusionary scenes yet...and if they won't continue the series...then the scenes that we have seen so far, don't make much sense.

I think that the real story hasn't begun yet...what we have seen until now could be seen as some kind of prelude or something for the events to come. So I really hope that they'll make a second season. Kyoani has a reputation of sticking close to the games after all.

[Kisuke06]

So, episode 22 is going to be the last one. It seems that the end of Clannad won't be as powerful as Kanon. At least that is what I think.

[KaneDragon]

Random fanservice stretching... heh. Good focus. Goodness, were Ryou's breasts always that big? ^^

And no one has mentioned the alien invasion yet? The hills of Botan, the "Puhi!" sign, aliens, the big explosion... Hehehehe~

[yupyupyup]

Tomoyo + Glasses = cute! :D:D

[GreatTeacherKen]

I love how Akio just won't drop the whole potty chair thing. :heh:

[Flandre Scarlet]

I guess Tomoya tells his love for Nagisa in the last scene,
then the story ends(or continues to second season.)

[Gotank]

Clannad is a disappointment. We are almost on the last episode.
Where's the drama like Kanon?
Where's the sadness like Kanon?

I feel that Clannad is leagues away from Kanon.

Yes differences in taste... but mind you, one series already finished while the other still has an episode left, so it would be a little unfair to compare at this point. I think Clannad is more interesting to watch, but leaves less food for thought afterwards like Kanon did. Still, I really enjoy both series.

[Sorrow-K]

Random fanservice stretching... heh. Good focus. Goodness, were Ryou's breasts always that big? ^^
Well, she is Kyou's sister after all, and Kyou's certainly not lacking in that particular department.

I think this might actually be the first time we've had a Ryou fanservice scene, hence why we haven't noticed them before.

[Guardian Enzo]

Interesting to see this thread evolve into a bit of a Kanon discussion, because I can't help thinking about it watching this series. I know Clannad isn't intended to have the drama of Kanon, but even in that context I still feel something missing. What's really sets Kanon above Clannad, for me, is scope. Frankly, the main conflict of the main female character's arc in Clannad just doesn't feel all that profound - I mean really, so Mom and Dad gave up their career - what's the big deal? It's called being a parent. I like Nagisa and all, but the stuff that drove the plot in Kanon - especially Ayu's arc - had so much more weight to it that it's hard not to dismiss Clannad as fluff by comparison. Frankly, the most interesting character here is Sunohara and we rarely got to see more of him than as a punching bag.

[Yukinokesshou]

Frankly, the most interesting character here is Sunohara and we rarely got to see more of him than as a punching bag.

Even though I disagree with all your Kanon praising, this point is well taken. And why don't the other characters recognise Sunohara for what he's worth? Tomoyo has a solid basis for disliking him, but the same isn't true for anyone else or is it? :heh:

I mean really, so Mom and Dad gave up their career - what's the big deal? It's called being a parent.

Seconded too. I think Nagisa's plot loses a lot of its meaning without the After Story. Her story is rather mundane if it's to be built on the premise of Mum and Dad giving up their career.

That said, I still like the general feel of Clannad. Yes, it's missing something, but so is Kanon. Hopefully a second season will set Clannad right.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

More and more I keep thinking that Nagisa and Tomoya are really perfect together. They are just so cute when they are talking.

And talk about bad timing. I don't think it could get any worse than that.

[Codine]

I know its not hard to compare kanon and clannad but they're both very different types of animes. Personally i was looking for the drama aspect of Clannad which they could have put in but barely touched on any of it. Now that I look back it feels more like a comedy than anything else. My thoughts are still a little mixed as this series comes to an end. I was just expecting too much after Kanon. Either way its gona be disappointing not seeing these characters anymore after this ends =(

*hopes for season 2*

[Sorrow-K]

Interesting to see this thread evolve into a bit of a Kanon discussion, because I can't help thinking about it watching this series. I know Clannad isn't intended to have the drama of Kanon, but even in that context I still feel something missing. What's really sets Kanon above Clannad, for me, is scope. Frankly, the main conflict of the main female character's arc in Clannad just doesn't feel all that profound - I mean really, so Mom and Dad gave up their career - what's the big deal? It's called being a parent. I like Nagisa and all, but the stuff that drove the plot in Kanon - especially Ayu's arc - had so much more weight to it that it's hard not to dismiss Clannad as fluff by comparison. Frankly, the most interesting character here is Sunohara and we rarely got to see more of him than as a punching bag.
I agree with all of this except for one thing, and that's that the most interesting character in all of this isn't Sunohara, it's Okazaki. But, nonetheless, he's another character that I think deserved more focus than he got. I mean, it's clear that his character has developed, and it's happened because of his relationship with Nagisa, but I wish they were a lot more explicit with how he deals with his problems. What I desperately wish for is that he gets his own arc, where his own problems are put on centre stage in the same way each of the main girls get their own arc. I realize Clannad hasn't been anywhere near as modular as Kanon, but I'm starting to think that the modular style might work best for stories like this. If nothing else, the modular style allows for incredible focus, with very little in the way of distractions.

[MeoTwister5]

Comparing Kanon and Clannad, which is absurd to begin with, is further more absurd when you consider that the story isn't even concluded yet. You're basing the tale without After Story.

If you still want to make an absurd comparison between two animes with radically different themes and intentions, do so either after After Story is animated, or at least know the story in detail. At this point it is pointless and unfair.

[Ice Block]

Even though many of you complain that some of the arcs were rushed, I feel like I know everything that needs to be known about Kyou/Ryou/Tomoyo, and that nothing is left out.

But KyoAni just had to tease us with Kyou's _____ in the Rain scene in the OP! I feel cheated as a Kyou fan(boy).

----------

Finally started seeding. My thoughts on this ep:

The pacing may be a little slow, but it was perfect IMO. Everything flowed well -- the assigning of roles, practicing, BGM selection, "let's work hard" pinky promise, rehearsal, Nagisa's nervousnes, and her discovery of her parents' past.

That insanely long tongue twister at the start really cought me off guard. It was pretty good though, with different voices fading in and out, moving left and right, and with Sunohara's frustration building up :heh:.

Why does my chest hurt at around 10:50+ (SS-Eclipse)? I'm not supposed to cry here, right? Just looking at all the thoughts and feelings that couldn't be conveyed through words + the beatiful BGM... :sad:

So it's the flashlight's fault... Make's me wonder why she had to get an old one from the shack, when she could've just brought some new batteries instead. Looking through it again, I guess the flashlight's bulb was broken, so it can't be helped.

My Rating: 9/10 + 1 for the step up in animation detail (Finally saw characters not involved in the active conversation blink, move, and make some gestures. This was very popular in SHnY, but got toned down a LOT in Kanon and Clannad.) = 10/10

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5732/ep21lolwutbc1.gif<-- This scene had me going lolwut? Can someone enlighten me as to why she did that?
Time for the Furukawa Bakers to save the day!

Will we be able to witness Nagisa's play?
Will Tomoya finally confess to Nagisa?
Will Tomoyo get more screentime?
Will Fuko randomly appear?

OMG, Kotomi-chan's in charge of music! Will we hear her violin once more?
It's the school festival! Will we be able to witness Tomoyo's perfect combo?

Seriously, will we get an Official Second Season Announcement?

[Sorrow-K]

Comparing Kanon and Clannad, which is absurd to begin with, is further more absurd when you consider that the story isn't even concluded yet. You're basing the tale without After Story.

If you still want to make an absurd comparison between two animes with radically different themes and intentions, do so either after After Story is animated, or at least know the story in detail. At this point it is pointless and unfair.Is it really? As much as we all want to see a second season, there's no absolute guarantee at this stage that After Story will be animated. There's been no official announcement.

The "apples and oranges" argument carries more weight than that argument. I can see why people would be against comparing Clannad and Kanon from the point of view that the philosophies and approaches that drive those two series are so different. On the other side of the coin, they also have their similarities, which is why I'm fine with comparing them, as long as the comparisons don't go too far to the point that they're unfair.

But to say that comparing the two anime is unfair because a component of the original source material is yet to be animated when it hasn't even been confirmed? We're comparing the anime, not the stories they were based on. After Story is kinda irrelevant to this particular comparison.

[HayashiTakara]

Meh.. Clannad has a very weak main plot, it doesn't grip me the way Kanon has. If Nagisa's parents were depressed and constantly fighting and have a terrible family situation caused by the whole "giving up on their dreams" thing, then I can see her brooding over it... But, her family is full of affection, smiles and laughter, and that is the most important thing. Over exaggeration on her part. Oh well, the fan service of this episode made it better at least.

[Proto]

I think people who are accussing Nagisa's guilt of being a case of over dramatization are kinda forgetting to factor in Nagisa's personality. When you are analyzing a situation from a psychological point of view it isn't all about factoring in the circumstances. The reaction to the same situation vary from people to people. We are all humans and we are all learning, and a guilt complex is not that uncommon for people who also have a degree of inferiority complex like Nagisa. Yes, she's slowly overcoming it, and you can see a great improvement from ep.1 to today's episode, but a miraculous and totally recovery would actually be detrimental to the story

[FCS-31]

If you want to summarize the whole story,please wait.

It is not over yet,and the most teary part is still in coming.


There is no doubt that kyoani will surely make AS.....as the interview during the past 4 mouth in magazine and video,and the bbs in japan have find a lot of evidence to porve the existance of AS.

[Falkor]

Finished episode 21…

Reading some posts claiming After Story as the heart of Clannad, it makes me very curious to know what is it about, but spoiling myself is not what I’m planning to do. I find it hard to avoid comparisons between Kanon and Clannad when the former finished a year ago and it was around episode 21 and 22 where the show became an emotional rollercoaster. Now, I don’t see this happening in Clannad as far as this episode concerns, but I don’t see either how this makes for a good comparison between the two. Sure it can be argued whether the lack of urgency undervalues the merits of the show, but let’s wait and see if that’s the case when the show is not yet done.

That said, after the opening sequence, I think I got to know Ryou and Kotomi a bit more than before when they haven’t shown up as much. My favorite scene has to be when Tomoyo (why is it that I was thinking in Mai) enters the drama club room and tells Nagisa, “I’m glad it was you.” Some kind of formal acknowledgement finally came through Tomoyo’s words as though she and probably the rest felt compelled to convey that those were their feelings. Nagisa was the lucky one and perhaps, the one who should truly bring the drama club to life. Everyone wanted to share the same goal when that pursuit was the equivalent of happiness—especially for Tomoya who found in Nagisa his other half.

[bladeofdarkness]

in one of the first eps of the show nagisa was asked by tomoya why she wants to bring back the drama club so much and she gave a speech about how wonderful it is for everyone to work together
she talked about the drama club members then as people we didnt know about and never met and so the messge was somewhat lost on me then

looking at the club that has been formed during the show i cant help but agree with her
it really looks like a wonderful thing

[Rembr]

I think people who are accussing Nagisa's guilt of being a case of over dramatization are kinda forgetting to factor in Nagisa's personality. When you are analyzing a situation from a psychological point of view it isn't all about factoring in the circumstances. The reaction to the same situation vary from people to people. We are all humans and we are all learning, and a guilt complex is not that uncommon for people who also have a degree of inferiority complex like Nagisa. Yes, she's slowly overcoming it, and you can see a great improvement from ep.1 to today's episode, but a miraculous and totally recovery would actually be detrimental to the storyI didn't forget her personality. She was just as expected and that's why the supposed peak of drama wasn't as exciting as it could've been with a much more interesting personality and/or personality flaw.

[Proto]

I didn't forget her personality. She was just as expected and that's why the supposed peak of drama wasn't as exciting as it could've been with a much more interesting personality and/or personality flaw.

Hmm... you are touching quite a subjective point there, so we can't really argue in favor of what could be interesting or non interesting since that vary from person to person. The only thing I could say is that despite the simpleness of the issue I found the whole ordeal to be of interest in the end, so I'd suggest you to wait for the next episode before making a final judgment.

[Rembr]

I'll at least do that, since I've made it this far.

[FireChick]

I have a question. If the last episode is a week away, why is it 24 episodes?:confused::heh:

[Rembr]

Apparently there is a DVD-only episode and a bangaihen episode.

[ZODDGUTS]

Interesting to see this thread evolve into a bit of a Kanon discussion, because I can't help thinking about it watching this series. I know Clannad isn't intended to have the drama of Kanon, but even in that context I still feel something missing. What's really sets Kanon above Clannad, for me, is scope. Frankly, the main conflict of the main female character's arc in Clannad just doesn't feel all that profound - I mean really, so Mom and Dad gave up their career - what's the big deal? It's called being a parent. I like Nagisa and all, but the stuff that drove the plot in Kanon - especially Ayu's arc - had so much more weight to it that it's hard not to dismiss Clannad as fluff by comparison. Frankly, the most interesting character here is Sunohara and we rarely got to see more of him than as a punching bag.

Same here I feel there making a big issue when it really isn't that much of a big issue. Lots of parents give up on their dreams/careers when they become parents though mainly it's the mothers that do this so that they'll be able to raise their child. My mother quit her job to raise me yet your not seeing me going all emo about it. Plus it's not like both Nagisa's paren't can't go back to their careers once she graduates or gets married, actually Nagisa is old enough now to be able to care for herself she's what 17 lol.

Also it should be easy enough for Nagisa mom to get her job teaching pre schoolers again and for Nagisa's dad to join play theather again. Really that super shock look that Nagisa gave at the end of the episode had my eyes rolling thought that she was overeacting then again this is Nagisa who would even cry if she accidently step on a ant. :heh:

[Proto]

It goes beyond the simple fact of her parents giving up on their dreams though. It is a sum of various factors, starting with her a having a personality prone to guilt complexes, coupled with the fact that her parents love her a lot and she feels she is not retributing enough, adding that she already feels and subconsciously blames herself for "something bad she did" when she was a child, and the fact that she found a lot of material that seemed to portray her parents such that they seemed happier and living more fullfilling lives before she appeared than after. As Tomoya said, if Akio had sit down and explained their past lives tactfully and calmly, like I guess is the case with most of us in real life, none of this would have occurred. Unfortunately the mixture of all the above circumstances resulted in the present situation.

[GreatTeacherKen]

All of this talk of Nagisa has got me thinking. I just realized that I have some things in common with her.

My mom also gave up any chance of a career to take care of me instead. In fact, even when my grandmother asked to take care of me in her stead, my mother refused. I don't think she regrets that decision, but my mom has commented several times before that she sometimes feels unfullfilled; she sometimes wishes she could have found something she liked to do and do it. Even she admitted that she didn't really know what she wanted to do, I can't help but feel sad for her, maybe even a little guilty even though I know it isn't my fault at all. I think I feel especially sad since well my mom has never been really able to pursue something she wanted to do (she went to medical school because her father made her) and plus, she apparently went through a deep depression while she was taking care of me.

Perhaps this is why I had no problem with Nagisa's angsting over her parents' decision. Besides being in character for her I guess I can relate to her.

It also makes me wonder if I could do what Akio and Sanae did. Would I be willing to give up my dreams and career for a loved one? Or would I try to juggle both, etc.

[HayashiTakara]

Nagisa is turning 19 or 20 by the time she graduates, remember she was held a year back.. In Japan most students turn 18 ~ 19 during their senior year of HS. She's an adult at least chronologically, as for the mental thing... I'll leave that uncommented.

I agree with the other posters when they say that Parents (particularly the mother) gives up their dreams if they want to be parents. But, for some a family is a dream. Its obvious though that Nagisa's parents have no regrets, if they did there would be signs of bitterness and emo behavior. Love always requires sacrifice, if she's mentally incapable of understanding that, then I feel no sympathy.

[Shinigami_Mello]

Now now, the drama may not seem at as much as Kanon because we're still in the middle of the story of Clannad, unlike Kanon. And Clannad isnt all about squeezing out as many tears as it can.

Personally, I enjoyed this episode. I liked to see how they were working on the play and everyone doing it together. I felt nervous through it, just like Nagisa oddly. And the tongue twister at the beginning was great. The only thing I didnt like was the fanservice at the start. But I guess it's because I'm a girl.

I cant wait till the last episode.

[KholdStare]

My personal opinion about the parents is simple. What we need to define here is the word "dream." Are their dreams to further pursue their career or to care for Nagisa? It is very easy to find out here. Are they happy now? Do they regret where they are now? If they don't regret their actions (as shown in the series), then their true dream is to raise Nagisa, which ultimately means they fulfilled their dream.

[HayashiTakara]

My personal opinion about the parents is simple. What we need to define here is the word "dream." Are their dreams to further pursue their career or to care for Nagisa? It is very easy to find out here. Are they happy now? Do they regret where they are now? If they don't regret their actions (as shown in the series), then their true dream is to raise Nagisa, which ultimately means they fulfilled their dream.

Valid point indeed, I believe that her parents has realized that Nagisa is more important, and their dream has shifted. Her parents are happy, they don't act like people who gave up something, a better term is, they replaced their dream with another.

Nagisa is just emo, and that doesn't make me wanna grow attach to her, I was hoping for something spectacular and heart wrenching to make me change my opinion of her... but alas, she's as bland as she was from the beginning.

[rave_master16]

Nagisa is just emo, and that doesn't make me wanna grow attach to her, I was hoping for something spectacular and heart wrenching to make me change my opinion of her... but alas, she's as bland as she was from the beginning.

Just wait for AS and maybe your opinion of her might change...
And the reason why she's like this, it has many factors:
Trauma1. At the beginning, she has no friends in school...which makes you a loner.
Trauma2. She had a near-death experience.
Trauma3. She had a personality of being a pragmatist. Well....
Trauma4. She discovered the secret of her parents in a bad time...After so many years..

It's like this put your position to Nagisa...or how about if you suddenly knew a secret of your family that you are not really their son/daughter? In your age about 20 plus..wouldn't you feel guilty how much sacrifice they did to you?

In this case just knowing that your parents gave up their dreams for you....Maybe it will be different if Akio and Sanae said it to her when she was little(no offense to the best parents) but now that Nagisa is this old..secret can really affect the person... As like Akio said...It's a worst time...

[Eisdrache]

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5732/ep21lolwutbc1.gif<-- This scene had me going lolwut? Can someone enlighten me as to why she did that?

I thought exactly the same, watched that scene 3-4 times and still dont understand it.

[HayashiTakara]

My parents are immigrants, as far as I know they are living their dreams. I'm very appreciative of what they went through to raise a family on foreign soils. I can only hope that I can repay them for their efforts.

All the trauma's you mentioned are self-inflicted. Its her fault, no excuses. If you want friends get over yourself and talk to someone, don't go emo over it, saying you can't help it is an excuse made out of fear. Her near death experience was 10 years ago? which made her anywhere between 8 ~ 10 years old. I'm pretty sure thats old enough to know enough not to stand out in the snow for 2 hours when you're sick, and I'm sure her parents told her to rest until they came back, she had no reason to worry and sit outside waiting, if she had experience being abandoned in the past then its understandable but nothing of that calibur existed with her.

The secret isn't a OMFG, secret. Its something so common its not even worth breaking a sweat over. Seriously its very over dramatized.

[MeoTwister5]

My parents are immigrants, as far as I know they are living their dreams. I'm very appreciative of what they went through to raise a family on foreign soils. I can only hope that I can repay them for their efforts.

All the trauma's you mentioned are self-inflicted. Its her fault, no excuses. If you want friends get over yourself and talk to someone, don't go emo over it, saying you can't help it is an excuse made out of fear. Her near death experience was 10 years ago? which made her anywhere between 8 ~ 10 years old. I'm pretty sure thats old enough to know enough not to stand out in the snow for 2 hours when you're sick, and I'm sure her parents told her to rest until they came back, she had no reason to worry and sit outside waiting, if she had experience being abandoned in the past then its understandable but nothing of that calibur existed with her.

The secret isn't a OMFG, secret. Its something so common its not even worth breaking a sweat over. Seriously its very over dramatized.

That's perhaps assuming that it was a one time ordeal that has little bearing on her current life, but it's not. The mere fact that she subjected herself to the raging snowstorm radically altered her health and well being her entire life, as shown by her frail health and weak body. That one time where her love for her parents outweighed her common sense she pretty much doomed herself. Her fault obviously, but she has had to suffer because of it all these years. Look at the chain:

- Frail health means many school absences
- many absences means loss of social connections
- loss of social connections means no friends and isolation
- isolation means a loner mentality and an inferiority complex
- inferiority complex means a timid and doormat personality

You cannot accurately say that such a thing is overly dramatized. Just because people go through similar traumatic experiences does not mean that the consequences and the results are the same for all. Some might get up from it, while some will have to suffer with it their entire lives.

The fact that her parents hid it is testament to the fact that they knew that Nagisa's experience greatly altered her even if the only thing she knew was that she was sickly, and the mere knowledge that it was because she stood in the snow for hours would just destroy her. Her condition regarding her trauma is more akin to subconscious memory repression as a defensive reflex.

[War_Lord]

My parents are immigrants, as far as I know they are living their dreams. I'm very appreciative of what they went through to raise a family on foreign soils. I can only hope that I can repay them for their efforts.

All the trauma's you mentioned are self-inflicted. Its her fault, no excuses. If you want friends get over yourself and talk to someone, don't go emo over it, saying you can't help it is an excuse made out of fear. Her near death experience was 10 years ago? which made her anywhere between 8 ~ 10 years old. I'm pretty sure thats old enough to know enough not to stand out in the snow for 2 hours when you're sick, and I'm sure her parents told her to rest until they came back, she had no reason to worry and sit outside waiting, if she had experience being abandoned in the past then its understandable but nothing of that calibur existed with her.

The secret isn't a OMFG, secret. Its something so common its not even worth breaking a sweat over. Seriously its very over dramatized.

I think you're underestimating how naive and unrealistic a child can be as well as the severity of childhood trauma. Case and point, a 10 yr old boy gets his friends to bury him head first in a sandbox because he wanted to imitate something he saw on Naruto. The end result was his death. So yeah, kids do alot of stupid things because they don't have enough experience to avoid them. They're still in experimental mode.

With that said, Nagisa is not to be blamed for her accident just as the 10 yr old boy wasn't to be blamed for his unfortunate death. The event definitely traumatized her just as it would any child her age. I can relate to Nagisa a bit since I got hit by a car when I was 7. That intense trauma I received may have effected the way I behave now (I definitely take less risks and keep to myself more often than I did prior to the accident.). To brush off her incident as nothing serious or common would be insensitive to everyone who experienced something similar and their life changed because of it.

[HayashiTakara]

Didn't say the incident was common, I'm saying people giving up something for the sake of someone they love is common. Both family and love requires sacrifice, If you're not willing to make sacrifices for either of those, then you have no business with either. She should be old enough to understand this concept.

Instead of making a big deal out of this "secret" it should be more on the situation at hand, meaning the play. Inserting this "secret" to make drama feels almost forced, its intention is to make you feel sympathetic and perhaps bring a tear to the eye, but rather I'm feeling apathetic, and when they finally revealed Nagisa's backstory I can't help but feel "Is that it?", Kotomi's story was 1000x's better.

On a side note, if the kid is too stupid to pull his head out of the sand when he feels the suffication, then he deserves to die, the world needs less stupid people.

[War_Lord]

Didn't say the incident was common, I'm saying people giving up something for the sake of someone they love is common. Both family and love requires sacrifice, If you're not willing to make sacrifices for either of those, then you have no business with either. She should be old enough to understand this concept.

Instead of making a big deal out of this "secret" it should be more on the situation at hand, meaning the play. Inserting this "secret" to make drama feels almost forced, its intention is to make you feel sympathetic and perhaps bring a tear to the eye, but rather I'm feeling apathetic, and when they finally revealed Nagisa's backstory I can't help but feel "Is that it?", Kotomi's story was 1000x's better.

I was just focusing on your remarks about how children should have more common sense than what Nagisa demonstrated the day of her incident. But in response to this one, I probably would feel at least a little guilt if I found out my parents dropped their careers in order to take care of me. I agree her backstory isn't as dramatic as the others, but I don't feel empathy for her because I think the event was sad, I feel empathy because of how she feels towards the incident. It doesn't matter what I perceive of it, it's how that character who experienced it perceives it. I don't care if a character cries over spilled milk, if that character feels so strongly about it, I can't help but to sympathize (as weird as that sounds). That's my impression of it anyways.


On a side note, if the kid is too stupid to pull his head out of the sand when he feels the suffication, then he deserves to die, the world needs less stupid people.

The kid was struggling to get out, but his friends thought he was playing so they kept him in there. They didn't realize he was suffocating until it was too late.

[HayashiTakara]

I get what you're saying, but it doesn't bring value up on that character. If someone chooses to like her, thats cool, no problem there, not everyone can agree on everything. I think its just a clash of personality preference. I don't like her character personality, a person that emotionally weak and dependent... ugh... If my significant other was like that, she'll be crying all the time. Granted that I have a protective nature, but even then I need my room to be selfish, and if that person is like that... I'll need to tip toe around her constantly... that'll definately drive on my nerves.

[MaxwellDemon]

Didn't say the incident was common, I'm saying people giving up something for the sake of someone they love is common. Both family and love requires sacrifice, If you're not willing to make sacrifices for either of those, then you have no business with either. She should be old enough to understand this concept.

On a side note, if the kid is too stupid to pull his head out of the sand when he feels the suffication, then he deserves to die, the world needs less stupid people.

It is so easy to point at a kid and tell them they are stupid for doing stupid things when they don't even know that thing is stupid until they taste it first hand-wise or see it happen to someone else.

Like someone said, they are in experimental mode, how many times did your parents have to tell you not to play with fire... and how many times despite of that when you are a kid, you still wanted to play with fire until they had to hide all their lighters/matches or when you burned yourself?

And yes, Nagisa SHOULD understand that concept... but do you think she does? Look at her maturity growth compared to Tomoyo's or Kyou's. She was so sheltered, so protected due to so many circumstances that she never truly stepped into the world until the moment she met Tomoya (whom still somewhat shelters her).

Of course, I can understand you disliking particularly whiny girls, they'd eventually get on my nerves too. I eventually however sympathize Nagisa for not being able to see the world in the way that should be seen... I also sympathize for her due to this episode echoing a very, very loud crack on her innocence.

[Sinestra]

Poor Nagisa she honestly feels her parents giving up her dreams is her fault. This is a very sensitive problem as we can see why Nagisa feels this way. Its hard for children to understand why parents do things and its obvious that Nagisa's parents dont feel that way there child came first thats what was important this happens more in real life then most people realize. But Nagisa's depression will only get worse it Tomoya does not act quick. I truly feel sad for such an innocent girl to have these feelings. Im not sure if we are heading towards an original anime ending or one from the game but i hope its a happy one. Its very interesting to find out where Nagisa got her passion for theater from why am i not surprised it was good ol dad

I think one of my favorite parts of the episode was Tomoyo coming in the classroom with glasses on (so cute) but her saying "im glad it was you" to Nagisa and the camera pans to all the girls who look away was interesting. Everybody is aware of Tomoya's feelings except Nagisa lol. Nagisa and Tomoya together remind me of Nagisa parents so much.

[Deathscyther]

I might not be disappointed by this because I actually like her personality, just like Hayashi is disappointed because he doesn't like her. Everyone has his/her own preferences of course. But I'll try to make my point anyways:p

I can understand Nagisa's feelings very well and I don't think it is overdramatized at all. Seeing her personality, this is exactly the kind of reaction I was hoping for.

She sees her parents as her most important people (I think she sees tomoya almost as important now though) and for a lot of years, she has had nobody but her parents. She was always sick and her parents were the only ones who were there for her. She might have had some 'friends', but she lost them every time when she became sick again. On top of that, she's very shy and withdrawn and unconfident as she tends to blame herself for everything. (remember the bus incident. Nagisa blamed herself for Kyou's and Kotomi's reactions, because she was the one who told them that there was a bus incident) This might be her own fault, but it's only natural when you see her life up to that moment. She wasn't strong enough to get out of her shell by herself. And that's where Tomoya came in.

So her parents giving up their dreams for her might not be such a big deal for some of us, but when you try to set yourself in Nagisa's shoes, then you'll understand. She knows that her parents have been hiding something big from her for years. She knows that the only time her father softens up is when she brings up the subject. This must have made her worried/confused for a lot of years.

And now...Nagisa herself is finally living out her own dream. Making a theater club with all of her friends. Everyone working together. She isn't alone anymore and made real friends. Friends who would stand by her forever. This all began when Tomoya started becoming her friend.

These developments have made her feel even more quilty because she feels that she shouldn't be happy when she messed up the lives of her parents, although before this episode she didn't know what exactly she did to her parents. But now that she finally did find out...the shock is great.

And with Nagisa's personality...she has to be blaming herself for everything. Should she become truly happy and living out her dream, while she destroyed her parents' dreams? Does she deserve that? They have always taken care of her and what did she do in return...she destroyed her parents' dreams. These thoughts have to be running through her mind at this very moment.

I think that this is very realistic and that's what makes this story very good in my opinion. Kotomi's and Fuko's stories might have been sadder, but Nagisa's story isn't done yet. It is just beginning. Let's just hope that we'll get to see the rest in a season 2;)

[Rembr]

I can understand Nagisa's feelings very well and I don't think it is overdramatized at all.There was no actual drama. That's what people are griping about I think. It was made to seem that there was drama just because of Nagisa's flawed personality. But that still doesn't make the drama relevant or interesting to a lot of the viewers.

[HayashiTakara]

I wonder how Nagisa would feel if she knew that all the girls that are involved in the drama club were originally there because they wanted a piece of Tomoya? lol. Although right now they became friends, but we all know that they helped out because of Tomoya and not her.

[Proto]

Again, it would depend in their situation. The rest of the drama cast right now is working with the club because they are geniounily interested in making the play a success, because they have grown attached to both Nagisa and Tomoya and a sum of other factors. It would be again an issue of how it is presented.

And people, we are going on an endless circle again. The very arguments you are presenting have been presented, refuted, counterrefuted, ad infinitum a good 4 times already. If you can't agree with her personality mold, well that's a shame, but we don't need to hear it 5 times over, let's move on ^_^

[Rembr]

There's nothing else to discuss since that's the only thing the episode's about.

[Proto]

The illusionary world, CLANNAD TV after episode 22, Nagisa's bedpan having a more significant role in the future, how will the whole ordeal be solved? Future expectations.

Select one of the above.

[Rembr]

We can speculate whether it was really the women's soccer or the fact that they were working on the DVD-only episode.

If so, where did that fall, between 18-19?

Kyou/Tomoyo addendum?

[Kinny Riddle]

If you're interested in the tongue-twister the club members did at the beginning of the episode, you may try it out yourself here (http://ijustat.at.infoseek.co.jp/nihongo/uirou.html). This is what actors, especially seiyuus where articulation is important, are trained on, so for them, it's a piece of cake.

[rave_master16]

May I ask if Hayashi is a Kyou worshipper... If so now I know why you're like that...
Anyways I understand why you really don't like everything Nagisa's gonna do...Hahah REALLY...

Anyways, someone said stop arguing...
Well the harem is already over...Just like shuffle..

I would say the reason why this episode cut the scene when Nagisa is acting on stage is because Kyoani will save it for last episode... About Illusionary World, I think the reason the title for last episode is "Two shadows" is because Kyoani will connect the two worlds through the play of Nagisa...
I expect a high-quality episode for next one...because the last episodes had a little cut on the quality...

AS will definitely in the second season...
And for Kyou/tomoyo lovers may get their complete route in second season.. if Kyoani will make it another 24 epi....

And this whole parents issue will be solve by Nagisa showing her maturity in the play..
Or another path maybe...It will be left unsolved... for the next season... or DVD episode...which will blow the brains out of all the disappointed...

And one last thing... again.. Clannad is not Kanon and Clannad is not AIR..

[Rodo K.]

Well if you have all watch the series Kanon and AIR they all have a connection. All the stories are somewhat the same, if i'm correct.

I like the couple Tomoya and Nagisa, they're made for each other, that's in my opinion. Like when Nagisa said Akio and Tomoya were the same, i agree they may not look alike but they do somewhat act alike.

[areas]

I like the way KyoAni gave a closure to Tomoyo's arc. "I'm glad you're the one" just... made a Tomoyo fan heartbroken...

[Mirrinus]

No, I don't really think the stories are somewhat the same, except in the vaguest and most superficial of senses. Perhaps you can elaborate?

[Deathscyther]

The next title..."Two shadows"

I don't think that they'll resolve anything about the illusionary world- normal world relation.

What I'm thinking right now:

I think that Nagisa will hesistate to do the play and that the two shadows are Akio and Sanae (or Tomoya) who shout out to Nagisa to perform her play. It would make sense after this episode. Can't think of anything else to relate with 'two shadows'

[Rembr]

Kagefutatsu is a Japanese metaphor for two similar things.

[HayashiTakara]

I've never mentioned Kyou once, so where did that come from?

Nagisa, to me, is a crappy character with a crappy back story. Every other girl in the story are leagues better than her mediocrity.

[Proto]

Well, you can't please everyone everytime. Nagisa managed to even get to the difficult to please Kaioshin sama, and she is one of the most popular characters of the KEY lore, so maybe you are just in the wrong target demographic group :p

[KaneDragon]

I've never mentioned Kyou once, so where did that come from?

Nagisa, to me, is a crappy character with a crappy back story. Every other girl in the story are leagues better than her mediocrity.
Do Kyou and Ryou even have a backstory (in the anime, at least)? That doesn't diminish the awesome power of Kyou's zettai ryouiki. But I digress. Nagisa is a cute character whose backstory is, if not terribly dramatic, at least there and integrated into the plot. Just compare her to Ayu, and I'm sure she'll suddenly seem a lot more tolerable. ;):p

(Haha, here I am, an anti-Ayu, arguing back against an anti-Nagisa. No pleasing everyone indeed. :heh: )

[Rembr]

Well, you can't please everyone everytime. Nagisa managed to even get to the difficult to please Kaioshin sama, and she is one of the most popular characters of the KEY lore, so maybe you are just in the wrong target demographic group :pHuh.

This isn't the best statistic, but since it's local, it's somewhat relevant right:

http://forums.animesuki.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1726

[HayashiTakara]

I think I don't like Nagisa because she's so... generic... with a mary jane back story.

I like Ayu cause she's extremely unique for a main female lead.

Uguu > Nagisa

[RandomFlameStrike]

.... You're calling Nagisa generic compared to the loli with little substance/development known as Ayu? I don't hate Ayu at all but Nagisa>UGUU~~~! By miles! Well that's my opinion.

[Proto]

Well, you can't please everyone everytime. Nagisa managed to even get to the difficult to please Kaioshin sama, and she is one of the most popular characters of the KEY lore, so maybe you are just in the wrong target demographic group
Huh.

This isn't the best statistic, but since it's local, it's somewhat relevant right:

http://forums.animesuki.com/poll.php...ts&pollid=1726

36% Popularity for a character whose arc hadn't remotely started by the time most people had voted isn't my idea of doing bad though :p

But anyway, we are going down the road of shipping, and boards like Shuffle have shown us in the past how horribly wrong that can go. Let's return to something more relevant to the episode, for example, Nagisa's bedpan, because this gets any uglier.

[Shinigami_Mello]

I'm going to say the same as RandomFlameStrike. I find Nagisa to be a much better character than Uguu...but then again, she and Yuuichi were probably my least favorite characters. She was alright, but the other characters were much more interesting.
(Oddly. In Clannad and Air, the two main characters where my favorite)
But Nagisa has the best overall story out of all the characters. Something I hope the anime gets too.

[RandomFlameStrike]

Hey Yuuichi was great!! XD

[Rembr]

But anyway, we are going down the road of shipping, and boards like Shuffle have shown us in the past how horribly wrong that can go. Let's return to something more relevant to the episode, for example, Nagisa's bedpan, because this gets any uglier.That's fine... but seriously can't we think of anything else about this episode to talk about?

Okay, how about this: why aren't there more things to talk about?

[Shinigami_Mello]

Hey Yuuichi was great!! XD

He was hilarious xD But I didnt feel as much of a bond with the character I suppose? His actions were always entertaining though. I dont dislike any of the characters, but I liked the others more than them. ^^

We probably cant find anything more since the episode in general's already been discussed D:

[HayashiTakara]

Don't wanna get into a Nagisa vs Uguu argument, so I'll leave it as is, as we all have varying tastes. But Nagisa is as generic as they come, if you're calling her unique you're in denial.

Besides Yuuichi's voice actor and story >>>> Tomoya, sorry but its the truth.

[Proto]

Anyway, for the people who like to speculate about future events, I'll give a little teaser and tell you to give a little check to the CLANNAD soundtracks song titles. You might find some interesting tidbits there ^_^

[Shinigami_Mello]

Yeah, it;d be better to not get into an argument. But I'll just have to say this.

Yuuichi? What story? He met random girls when he was a kid and then came back to the city and met them all again. Then helped them out. The end. D:
I'll stay quiet now.

[RandomFlameStrike]

Ah well you have a point, but that's not why I liked him. Tomoya is better though. His interaction with Nagisa is fun to watch.

[Shinigami_Mello]

Yep, it is!
I enjoy that about Tomoya. It seems very genuine and fun to watch. Ah, I cant wait till the next episode. I'm anxious to see if they'll announce a second season.

[Mirrinus]

Huh? Nagisa is generic? How many anime lead female characters are just like her? I don't know about you, but I can think of plenty of "promised girl" main characters already...

Just because you refuse to see something about a character doesn't mean others are blind to it too.

[Reckoner]

I've even started to find the girl arguments stupid. The reality is that any of the characters from Key games are so unreal it doesn't matter. I'd be hard pressed to meet anyone like Nagisa, Ayu, and Misuzu (bleh can't spell her name). Their emotions and actions are anything but normal in this world. If people actually want to see how people with real personalities and emotions act, they should go for the more realistic drama shows like True Tears.

On this episode, whether or not I dislike Nagisa, it is over dramatized much like the rest of the show, the worst being Fuko's arc and second being Kyou's break down. I find it funny though how people only react now when they realize that their "girl" lost. That is perhaps why people are repudiating your opinions and such. I can proudly say that I've had problems regarding this area of the show ever since Fuko's arc. Clannad in my eyes has never portrayed "real life drama" well. Perhaps the exception being Tomoya's relationship with his father. On the whole matter I can just call Clannad more or less a "cute" series.

BTW please stop mentioning After Story, we don't know if Clannad is getting a second season so its pointless to mention anything about it other than perhaps "Well there was some good drama in this part of the game." I don't like hearing "You've only seen half of Clannad so your opinion is invalidated (Over exaggerating a tiny bit, but basically yea).

P.S. NAGISA is not a rare personality at all, but very few anime character personalities could be considered rare these days anyways. The rarest one in the past years has probably been Haruhi from melancholy.

[Mirrinus]

It's arguably foolish to put any one aspect of characterization on a pedestal as an agreed-upon standard for judging how good a fictional character is, particularly since each aspect of characterization is most likely neutral in its basic sense anyway. I see it pretty often with "original" and "realistic". Neither is somehow good in it of itself (and I'd argue against the former even existing in most cases anyway). Neither always correlates with enjoyability, or depth, or self-consciousness, or whatever other standard you're using to judge the quality of a character or show. For example, I find many realistic characters to be boring and not enjoyable. Noe of True Tears I find entertaining, but I don't really think she's realistic, either. Unrealistic characters don't always translate to likable for me either, such as Hagu of Honey & Clover (honestly, she makes Ayu seem way more mature by comparison >_<). And paradoxically, the people I like the most in real life probably do not fall into a general category of "realistic" either.

So what am I trying to say? Go ahead and classify characters on the basis of originality or realism, but don't expect that to speak for itself as to its actual value. It is much more effective to attempt to establish common ground by defining and scaling such terms first.

As for Clannad itself, it's currently stuck in the limbo that Higurashi was in before HiguKai was announced (except not as butchered as the first season of Higurashi, as far as I'm concerned). Just like back then, I'd personally withhold final judgment until later.

[Reckoner]

I think you directed that post at me Mirrinus and I am going to reply as if you did, but if not sorry lol.

If I gave the impression that I was determining a character's greatness by a single trait, I'm sorry, but that is definitely not what I was saying or trying to say (I mean Noe is probably my favorite too from TT, while being the one character who is not that realistic). Rather I was commenting on the people who have been complaining about Clannad characters like Nagisa, saying she is an unrealistic and generic, etc. If they wanted more realistic characters, all I'm saying is that this show is probably not for them and I suggested another show, True Tears.

Since you wanted me to clearly define realism, well I'll explain myself then. What determines realism in my head is the probability of experiencing a certain situation. Like what are my chances of meeting a real life person like Kyou? Next to zero in my personal experience, so that is a very unrealistic character. I do adore her as a character though because like you said, realism isn't always great. A non clannad situation would be like in the Bourne Ultimatum where he jumps into the water in the end. From my knowledge in the laws of science, he would clearly die, but he didn't. Still it makes a cool story that I got to watch.

Also, my thoughts that I am throwing out there about realism is based on personal views, I haven't experienced everything and I'm in fact still quite young. I could later experience something and learn more about it and say "Oh so I can understand this character, " then I'd connect with the character more, and get a better sense of realism from that character."

Now on the over dramatization issue... Well it's trying to portray real life, but I personally feel it does a poor job. From what I've seen and read about in life some of these things don't sound that plausible, like Nagisa going into the snow for god knows what.

It is this disillusionment in people's heads that I'm lamenting, the idea that Clannad portrays real life people. Lets take Kotomi as an example; she is a genius girl who is very passive and innocent, with some deep hidden emotions and a serious side that is rarely ever expressed in the anime other than a few moments from her arc. It takes a stretch of the imagination, at least for me, to think that such a person exists and reacts to things like her parent's supposed abandonment...

I'm not ruling out the possibility that such things could happen in life. The only certainty in life is uncertainty. In fact these wonderful events make great stories at times for us to enjoy and escape from the everyday norm of society. It must be my fault for thinking that Clannad is trying to show realistic life experiences and characters. Moreover, I thought Clannad was trying to invoke real emotions inside of me as I peer into this other world.

[Mirrinus]

Oh, I don't really have a problem with what you said. I just tacked on realism as another example; I originally wrote that in regards to originality, which was brought up earlier. But thanks for your reply. ^_^

[Reckoner]

Oh, I don't really have a problem with what you said. I just tacked on realism as another example; I originally wrote that in regards to originality, which was brought up earlier. But thanks for your reply. ^_^

Ah... How foolish I do feel now... :upset:

[Rodo K.]

Well everybody has their opinions and i do believe that Clannad, Air and Kanon are somewhat connected. The Characters for instance, i'm not saying they look alike or sound alike, but their stories are all the same. ex.= Fuuko and Ayu, they were both in a coma. That's what i was trying to say.

[Mirrinus]

You could say that they're superficially the same, but you can't really extrapolate much more from that.

For example, I could claim that Much Ado About Nothing and Othello, both plays by Shakespeare, are much more similar than any of Key's works. Both follow an almost identical plotline: villain who acts evil for the sake of acting evil deceives a man into thinking his beloved was cheating on him, succeeds in getting the man to believe him and act out in rage, only to have his plans foiled at the last moment by a chance encounter and brought to ruin. Yet, both plays are still worlds apart in themes, execution, and many other aspects.

Or for an anime example, consider Rozen Maiden and Zatch Bell!, which also have an almost identical premise...but aside from superficial resemblences, it's very hard to equate the shows together either.

[FireChick]

Apparently there is a DVD-only episode and a bangaihen episode.

Oh! Okay! Maybe it'll be...

...the After Story maybe?

[Proto]

@Firechick

Considering that After Story has the length of a full fledged route, not likely. There are a number of good short stories that could get their chance there though.

[Mitsu Aoi]

Only one thing I like at this episode is....

Ryou: "Why dont you try wearing contacts?"
Tomoyo: "But theyre scary"
Kyou: "Bleh!~ =þ"

[AuditionEX]

I like how KyoAni delivers the stretching scene for an arousing fanservice!

For ep 22

Yeah I know what will happen on the Auditorium..

and I smell Sunohara gay ending!

Bwahahaha.. It would be awesome!

[littlekitty]

After watching 22, these are my reflections...

Clannad is cute and fun to watch, but they are not able to pull off an atmosphere of tragedy (unlike Kanon). I don't get it...Clannad is a beautiful story- if they tweaked the pacing around a bit, it could be much more emotional. (At least the Clannad movie did a decent job with this.) On a positive note, the art is amazing- I love the use of color and shadow.

Anyone else feel this way?

[germanturkey]

it gets more tragic if they decide to do after story. trust me.

[Mirrinus]

If you've already seen the movie, you should already know why the anime isn't as emotional: it simply hasn't gotten to that part of the story yet. The movie probably wouldn't be all that emotional either if you only watched the first half.

[Klashikari]

After watching 22, these are my reflections...

Clannad is cute and fun to watch, but they are not able to pull off an atmosphere of tragedy (unlike Kanon). I don't get it...Clannad is a beautiful story- if they tweaked the pacing around a bit, it could be much more emotional. (At least the Clannad movie did a decent job with this.) On a positive note, the art is amazing- I love the use of color and shadow.

Anyone else feel this way?
Like explained already, Clannad is not supposed to be a Kanon V2.
If it isn't as tragic as Kanon, that means it is working as intended.

For your instance, the anime was somewhat more tragic in term of execution (notably Fuuko's arc) in comparison with the game version. In term of tweek, it would be completely an alteration of the plot, which what the Movie has done.

Also, please note that the "drama/tragedy" part of the Movie is from After Story. Hence, it is way too hasty to consider the movie as "doing a decent job on this field" when the Anime series still didn't reach that part of the plot.

[Mirrinus]

It also seems like a mistake to assume that emotional = tragedy. This is really quite a narrow way of looking at what "emotional" means. For instance, one of the most emotional parts of the anime for me was the end of episode 18. Now, that doesn't qualify as a tragedy (unless you were a die-hard Kyou fan or something), but it certainly was good catharsis thanks to the Fujibayashi twins, as well as a reserved but still powerful acknowledgement coming from Tomoyo. Emotional can also mean moments of joy. The end of Kotomi's arc was by no stretch of the imagination a "tragedy", but it certainly could be considered emotional, even without a negative sentiment. In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that either Kotomi's arc or Fuuko's arc was tragic at all. Would adding tragedy somehow make them better? I'd imagine not.

I refer back to my comparison of Much Ado About Nothing and Othello. One was a tragedy, the other isn't. They both share several elements, yet also remain uniquely distinct. And, coincidentally enough, Much Ado also just so happens to be my favorite Shakespeare play. I would contend that Benedick and Beatrice's relationship culmination (which lacked any and all hints of tragedy) gave me more emotional enjoyment than all of Othello. And that's not just because Beatrice is the paragon of the 16th century Tsundere character, while Benedick is the Shakespearan version of Yuuichi.

[DJ_RockmanX]

It also seems like a mistake to assume that emotional = tragedy. This is really quite a narrow way of looking at what "emotional" means. For instance, one of the most emotional parts of the anime for me was the end of episode 18. Now, that doesn't qualify as a tragedy (unless you were a die-hard Kyou fan or something), but it certainly was good catharsis thanks to the Fujibayashi twins, as well as a reserved but still powerful acknowledgement coming from Tomoyo. Emotional can also mean moments of joy. The end of Kotomi's arc was by no stretch of the imagination a "tragedy", but it certainly could be considered emotional, even without a negative sentiment. In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that either Kotomi's arc or Fuuko's arc was tragic at all. Would adding tragedy somehow make them better? I'd imagine not.

Quoted for truth.

I refer back to my comparison of Much Ado About Nothing and Othello. One was a tragedy, the other isn't. They both share several elements, yet also remain uniquely distinct. And, coincidentally enough, Much Ado also just so happens to be my favorite Shakespeare play. I would contend that Benedick and Beatrice's relationship culmination (which lacked any and all hints of tragedy) gave me more emotional enjoyment than all of Othello. And that's not just because Beatrice is the paragon of the 16th century Tsundere character, while Benedick is the Shakespearan version of Yuuichi.

Best application of Shakespeare to anime I've seen yet. :D

[Ascaloth]

And, coincidentally enough, Much Ado also just so happens to be my favorite Shakespeare play. I would contend that Benedick and Beatrice's relationship culmination (which lacked any and all hints of tragedy) gave me more emotional enjoyment than all of Othello. And that's not just because Beatrice is the paragon of the 16th century Tsundere character, while Benedick is the Shakespearan version of Yuuichi.

You have kicked reason to the curb and done the impossible, Mirrinus. You've actually made me seriously consider reading up on a Shakespeare play. :heh:

You get a cookie for this achievement. :D

EDIT: Unfortunately, the Animesuki rep system says you need to diet. So no cookie for you, I'm afraid. :(

[FCS-31]

clannad is not a tragedy from very begining.

It is story about the most beautiful humanity，although in AS,have a absolute tragedy story.

But finally,It is story make people warm by the feeling of happiness

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

Hopefully they will show the afterstory because if KEY does an afterstory it will be much better than the movie because to me the movie was missing alot of stuff.

[littlekitty]

This is going to be a looooong post :-)

The movie probably wouldn't be all that emotional either if you only watched the first half.
And that's the problem I have with the anime adaptation. Half of the movie was spent on the final performance and the after-story. What room is left for all of this to be accomplished in the anime? One episode...maybe a DVD extra tops. If they try to cram that whole story in to two episodes, everything will feel rushed. Thats why I'm praying they make a whole second season for the after-story, because that is the treatment a story like that deserves.

But there is a glaring sign that the after story will be included in this season (and thus most likely rushed)
[Spoiler removed by a moderator]

Like explained already, Clannad is not supposed to be a Kanon V2.
If it isn't as tragic as Kanon, that means it is working as intended.

For your instance, the anime was somewhat more tragic in term of execution (notably Fuuko's arc) in comparison with the game version. In term of tweek, it would be completely an alteration of the plot, which what the Movie has done.

Also, please note that the "drama/tragedy" part of the Movie is from After Story. Hence, it is way too hasty to consider the movie as "doing a decent job on this field" when the Anime series still didn't reach that part of the plot.
I know...I shouldn't be comparing Clannad to Kanon, but it is undeniable how similar they are.

If Clannad was trying to send out a comedic, fun message, it would pass. The problem is that the different arcs seemed to be trying to convey some level of tragedy/sadness; yet this is where everything kinda falls flat.

For example, in Fuko's arc, it was very dramatic and sad when she finally disappeared, but when she re-appeared in the next few episodes as a comedic character, all of the emotion in her arc was destroyed. Or in tomoyo's arc- the situation with her brother and family could have been more moving, but they chose to tone it down and spend only one episode on it. I watched it and was like, "oh, her brother tried to commit suicide and it changed her life. That's interesting. Moving on..."

So, again, if they tweaked the pacing/focus of each character arc and if they left more time for the amazing after-story (which I doubt we'll see much of in the one episode we have left), Clannad could be just as dramatic as Kanon. It's sad to sad to see all of the potential drama go to waste, due to poor pacing...

It also seems like a mistake to assume that emotional = tragedy. This is really quite a narrow way of looking at what "emotional" means.
You are correct- "emotional" and "tragic" are words that should not be used interchangeably. Still, in my opinion, Clannad could have been more emotional. You talked about the scene where Kyou/Ryou tear up when they realize Tomoya loves Nagisa. Yes, that scene was emotional. To be honest though, the Kyou/Ryou arc barely existed...it was basically lots of blushing, but not a real story. Had the anime built an actual story for their arc (prehaps a direct confrontation between the girls and Tomoya or signs of conflict between the sisters), that crying scene would have been even more emotional.

Anyway, it's just my opinion...feel free to disagree :-)

[Mirrinus]

So basically...several of your opinions on the show are founded on the assumption that the After Story will be done in a single episode? I highly doubt that will happen, considering the title of the OVA episode. At any rate, it would be a blunder of the highest magnitude to do the After Story in a single episode, but the fact still remains: THIS HAS NOT BEEN DONE YET. It'd probably be wiser to save such complaints for when (or if) they actually do it. Don't forget, the After Story is much, much longer than the movie made it out to be, with likely enough material for an entire cour.

As for the emotional ending of Fuuko's arc, I don't see how the end of her arc says anything about her disappearing permanently. Rather, Tomoya's monologue at the end seems to suggest the exact opposite. Therefore, are your expectations really based off of what the show presented you, or are you just expecting what you yourself want?

The other thing I don't quite get is that you make the claim that Clannad is trying to convey sadness and tragedy, yet also say that its pacing and focus isn't in line with a tragedy. If the latter is really the case...then maybe the focus isn't on tragedy? Let the show determine the evaluation, and not the other way around.

I, for one, would propose that Clannad is not a tragedy due to one key feature that ties together all of the "tragic" events that have been presented so far: all of them have happened in the past. Fuuko's accident took place 2 whole years ago, and her comatose state comprises the bulk of the tragedy in her arc. What actually took place in the present, though, was her achievement despite overwhelming odds of making her sister's wedding a success. The only tragic part of Kotomi's arc was the death of her parents, and that happened many years ago. Present-day, though, her story is identified with her re-discovery of friendship and coming to terms with the memory of her parents, all positive things that certainly aren't tragic. And of course, Tomoyo's tragedy of her brother nearly killing himself was also in the past, contrasting sharply with her own present determination (and eventual success) of becoming student body president with the motivation of her family. With that, you can almost say that nothing tragic actually happens in the actual story thus far; only tragic events in the past are presented, but then usually resolved. Contrast this with Kanon, which had lots of tragedies both in the past and in each arc's present. With this in mind, can you really say that tragedy is the main focus of Clannad?

Of course, I can't say whether this will hold true or not with the After Story, lol. But at this point in the story, I think I can make this claim.

[littlekitty]

^
No, tragedy is not the main focus of Clannad. But I would say that the focus is very emotional. As I said before, I think Clannad could have done a better job with the most emotional aspects of the series.

Oh BTW what is the title of the OVA episode?

[Mirrinus]

According to what I've heard, the 23rd episode is entitled "The Events of Summer". This makes me expect episode 22 to only conclude the school arc of Clannad.

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

I thought episode 23 will be like a summarizing episode.

[DJ_RockmanX]

I thought episode 23 will be like a summarizing episode.

What gave you that impression?

[littlekitty]

@ Mirrinus
Hmmm... that's interesting. That definitely implies that epi 23 will delve in to parts of the after story. I wonder how far they will take it in that one episode. I really hope that the whole story is included in the anime at some point. Thanks for the info!

[Klashikari]

But there is a glaring sign that the after story will be included in this season (and thus most likely rushed)
That's impossible and Episode 21 proved it there will be no way they will include After Story, especially considering the content of the extra episode (aka episode 23)
Furthermore, what you think as a glaring sign of AS is irrelevant considering that many hints might just be for show or to demonstrate it will be shown later, as there is no reason for them to change the OP at all.

I know...I shouldn't be comparing Clannad to Kanon, but it is undeniable how similar they are.Aside of some usual plot devices quite similar to each other, the execution and such are hardly comparable. Heck, even Fuuko's "message" after her arc is nothing similar to the "crying girl in snow" of Kanon.

If Clannad was trying to send out a comedic, fun message, it would pass. The problem is that the different arcs seemed to be trying to convey some level of tragedy/sadness; yet this is where everything kinda falls flat. Sadness? The only sadness I saw was Fuuko's hardship and Kotomi's backlash of her past. Aside of that, their routes ended on the total opposite.

For example, in Fuko's arc, it was very dramatic and sad when she finally disappeared, but when she re-appeared in the next few episodes as a comedic character, all of the emotion in her arc was destroyed. Or in tomoyo's arc- the situation with her brother and family could have been more moving, but they chose to tone it down and spend only one episode on it. I watched it and was like, "oh, her brother tried to commit suicide and it changed her life. That's interesting. Moving on..."Errr... I think you simply expected Fuuko to be dead. Considering the end of episode 9, and her goal, it is hardly "sadness". Tragic and emotional yes, but hardly something aimed to put depression and such.

So, again, if they tweaked the pacing/focus of each character arc and if they left more time for the amazing after-story (which I doubt we'll see much of in the one episode we have left), Clannad could be just as dramatic as Kanon. It's sad to sad to see all of the potential drama go to waste, due to poor pacing...*breathes* again, there is NO WAY in hell they can convey after story properly without giving a big shot with the school arcs.

You are correct- "emotional" and "tragic" are words that should not be used interchangeably. Still, in my opinion, Clannad could have been more emotional. You talked about the scene where Kyou/Ryou tear up when they realize Tomoya loves Nagisa. Yes, that scene was emotional. To be honest though, the Kyou/Ryou arc barely existed...it was basically lots of blushing, but not a real story. Had the anime built an actual story for their arc (prehaps a direct confrontation between the girls and Tomoya or signs of conflict between the sisters), that crying scene would have been even more emotional.Kyou and Ryou's arc started ever since episode 10. An arc doesn't need to show the said character(s) mainly for the arc to begin.
Same goes for Tomoyo (that's why her first "ghostly" screentime made sense. It would hardly be consistent if she was roaming around with the drama club, while she is busy for the preleminary elections).

Also, as explained many times, considering the obvious choice and the fact the fujibayashi route is heavely based on romance, it would be clashing way too much, and even inconsistent.


That's just How i saw the series anyway, but considering what AS is, there is absolutely no way to do that and the school period with mere 22-26 episodes, except if you make a butchering and horrible job the Movie did.

@ Mirrinus
Hmmm... that's interesting. That definitely implies that epi 23 will delve in to parts of the after story. I wonder how far they will take it in that one episode. I really hope that the whole story is included in the anime at some point. Thanks for the info!
Not at all, the summer period is still part from Nagisa's main route.

[Mirrinus]

Well, knowing that it took about 4 months after Higurashi's first season ended before Higurashi Kai was announced, I'm willing to just sit back and wait patiently, although I do share in the same hopes as you do.

[DJ_RockmanX]

*snip*

@littlekitty: Listen closely to this one. He knows what he's talking about.

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

What gave you that impression?

Because they said episode 22 was the final episode.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Because they said episode 22 was the final episode.

I meant: What gives you the impression that it'll be a recap/summary episode?

[Mirrinus]

Probably the fact that AIR pulled off a similar thing, lol.

I admit, before I read the episode title, my mind was entertaining that suspicion too.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Probably the fact that AIR pulled off a similar thing, lol.

A waste of resources.

And the episode count should really still be set at 24 in my opinion, what with a so-called extra episode and DVD-only episode still likely being a part of Nagisa's route.

Anyway, we're derailing the topic too much. Let's stop now, or move it over to the General Discussion Thread.

[littlekitty]

What you think as a glaring sign of AS is irrelevant considering that many hints might just be for show or to demonstrate it will be shown later, as there is no reason for them to change the OP at all.
Yeah, hopefully you are right on this. It would be a shame to see the after story butchered!

Sadness? The only sadness I saw was Fuuko's hardship and Kotomi's backlash of her past. Aside of that, their routes ended on the total opposite.
Errr... I think you simply expected Fuuko to be dead. Considering the end of episode 9, and her goal, it is hardly "sadness". Tragic and emotional yes, but hardly something aimed to put depression and such.
It's true- Fuko and Kotomi's arcs end on uplifting notes. And I have no problems with the Kotomi arc. It's just sort of silly to see a re-appearing Fuko when her departure was so powerful. Seeing Fuko become an object of comic relief does not seem to do her arc its emotional justice.

Kyou and Ryou's arc started ever since episode 10. An arc doesn't need to show the said character(s) mainly for the arc to begin.
Same goes for Tomoyo (that's why her first "ghostly" screentime made sense. It would hardly be consistent if she was roaming around with the drama club, while she is busy for the preleminary elections).
Yes, I know when these arcs started. As I explained earlier, it wasn't the fact that the arcs were short that bothered me...it was more the fact that they were poorly executed. Eh. I guess you can't have everything, huh?

[Ice Block]

Seeing Fuko become an object of comic relief does not seem to do her arc its emotional justice.

It's what she does, though I agree some instaces were rather :uhoh:. It's a sign that her condition is getting better (she's slowly recovering her Power of Existence :heh:).
And you'll be seeing more of her soon :p.
Yes, I know when these arcs started. As I explained earlier, it wasn't the fact that the arcs were short that bothered me...it was more the fact that they were poorly executed. Eh. I guess you can't have everything, huh?

IIRC, [most of] Kyou's actions in Kotomi's arc were pretty much originally part of her (Kotomi) arc, with most of the stuff we saw happening off screen [in the game]. This gave KyoAni a chance to mix in the overall plot and mood/idea/whatever of the Fujibayashi twins' route.

Only about 25%(?) of the twins' route was shown (that 25% alone already heavily conflicts with Nagisa's scenario). It wasn't actually poorly executed, since it was spread out and applied to Kotomi's scenario and Tomoyo's mini-arc without completely changing said arcs' stories. I was even amazed that they were able to show that much without ruining the main route. Basically, the only way to include more than what was shown would require a time warp, a Kyou ending, or a BAD END (Youhei BAD END ftw).

[aardvark]

Well, knowing that it took about 4 months after Higurashi's first season ended before Higurashi Kai was announced, I'm willing to just sit back and wait patiently, although I do share in the same hopes as you do.
There's a Clannad event taking place at the TAF next week, so who knows, possibly something could be announced there

[Chi-no]

Well, kinda expect the last part to be there ... but that means this is the last second esp ???? There are still many stories to tell..... :(

[aorta]

I thought episode 23 will be like a summarizing episode.

A summerizing episode?

[SeedFreedom]

Very Late, as most people are finished the series, but i just got around to this episode. First of all, major kudos, so much i cant explain, to Akio. I was sure he was going to go balistic and throw tomoya out of the house for starters, even if it wasn't his fault at all. Nice to see he was composed and logical. Seems like there is a lack of father role models in anime these past few seasons. *cough* Myself;yourself, Hayate no gotoku, Shigofumi, and the list goes on* Second, tomoyo + glasses = moe^infinity.

The whole back story with Nagisa are bringing back memories of shuffle and the ordeal Kaede went through. Only difference is that they didn't die. The rest of the episode was what i expected from Clannad. Funny and entertaining.

[konstargirl]

Episode 21 is very interesting. Hope Nagisa does well in the play. :3 She made so far to do this.