Clannad - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll [END] [Archive]

Klashikari

2008-03-19, 16:01

Welcome to the discussion thread for Clannad, Episode 22.

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Episode 22 will be broadcasted this 21th march at 1:55 AM (Japan Time Zone),
which means this 20th march at 4:55PM (GMT 00).
Q: End at episode 22?! Isn't Clannad supposed to be a 24 episode series !?
A: It has been announced that Episode 23 will be a extra episode, named "Events of Summer Break" (there is no "episode 23" in the title in fact), while Episode 24 will be a DVD-only episode.

Q: So it will be over like that?!
A: There is a rampant unconfirmed rumor (even on MOONPHASE site) that CLANNAD might have a second season, so leading to After Story (the second "half" of Clannad story). Just wait for any official announcement, as nothing is officially confirmed for a hypthetical second season.

hai_san

2008-03-19, 16:38

wtf 22 ep... and ep 24 dvd only... how long do we have to wait for the dvd releases?

i hope ep 22 will at least end sadisfactory... no cliffhanger or so

rainbow_star

2008-03-19, 17:01

ep 22 is the end? No way!!!! :(

Takuto19

2008-03-19, 17:12

Dindn't see this coming, thought it was going to be 24 normal episodes, although tbh i'd rather there be a second season rather than it to end on 24 episodes though, mabey something might be announced at the end of this episode.

You never know heh.

Kristen

2008-03-19, 17:18

And thus ends the first season of an amazing anime. It was fun, and I have to say, Clannad had more of a value for me than just entertainment.

My speculations are simple: End the School life arc, don't cover any bit of After Story, announcement at the end for a second season.

I'm probably going to look at the screencaps this episode to see if they put a preview at the end or announce something. Let's hope for the latter. :)

Proto

2008-03-19, 18:07

announcement at the end for a second season.

If anything I'd guess that they will include that for ep. ~23, so I wouldn't get my hopes up :p

Vibeke

2008-03-19, 18:15

Well the fun times ends quickly :( I look forward to this episode and hopes it will faithfully cover Nagisa story.

Espiecakes

2008-03-19, 18:43

Yes, enjoy the wait for July 16th.

Kristen

2008-03-19, 18:51

Yes, enjoy the wait for July 16th.

July 16th?

dustclee

2008-03-19, 19:12

July 16th?
That's when the DVD containing episode 24 is coming out, if I'm correct.

RisArk

2008-03-19, 21:54

Why is everyone Code Geassing?!

minhtam1638

2008-03-19, 22:05

July 16th?

My 19th Birthday! Now I have something to look forward to for a birthday present.

Phantom-Takaya

2008-03-19, 22:10

Episode 22 is the end other than two extra episodes?! NOOOOOOOOO!!! Eh, geez. Things go by quickly sometimes. Great story, none the less. I'm up for a second season.

germanturkey

2008-03-19, 23:48

there goes after story...

Proto

2008-03-20, 00:22

Don't give up all your hopes yet. They may put it on indefinite hiatus like with Full Metal Panic, but they will definitely not close the door to a possible second season.

todkapuz

2008-03-20, 03:22

It just seems weird that an after-story chara shows promently in the OP and probably will not even get a moment's thought in this episode.... and hopefully... that is EXACTLY how it is... if we're not going to have any of the build up of the AS, I dont want to see ANY of the AS in this episode...

all that being said... looking at it based solely on what we've seen in the anime... there are a number of logical conclusions and reasons we can wrap most of this up nicely and neatly* here in this episode... and I'm sure they will still do it in a way to make me break down :)

All I can say is Sing little Dangoite, SING! *runs off to sleep to lessen time between now and pretty Clannad visuals*

edit *neatly -> well neatly on par with a lot of anime... obviously some of the back-story really is still missing to bring out the theme in it's whole.... but just mean we plot as we know it in the anime.

boggart

2008-03-20, 04:11

Well the DVDs are certainly worth the buy, so everyone should go buy them! :p

Tsuki-Miko-14

2008-03-20, 06:43

Well the fun times ends quickly :( I look forward to this episode and hopes it will faithfully cover Nagisa story.

I know how you feel. I really love waiting for news epi every Thursday. Infact wait for new epis make the week days Mon-Fri go fast.
But now today is the last epi and i feel so sad and upset.:(
Clannad is a fun show to watch, you know.
Now i have to wait for the second season.

Rodo K.

2008-03-20, 10:39

i enjoyed this anime very much, like Kanon 2006. I can't wait for the second season, July 16th? That's right around my birthday. All good stories must come to an end even if you don't want them too. ;-;

Kaioshin Sama

2008-03-20, 12:44

Series have been getting shorter and shorter each decade. In the 70's you would see many series of about 90+ episodes. Then in the 80's it would was predominantly 50 episode series. The 90's brought us the 26 episode formula that most people today are familiar with, but then in the 21st century we started to see lots of 13 episode series, which in my opinion is usually way to short to tell a full story and an excuse to break series up into multiple seasons. Maybe this "Code Geassing" is them grooming newer viewers who came in with the 21st century style for a return to the 50 episode norm of the 80's (since they are making a comeback in anime as of late).

Or maybe it's a clever marketing ploy to stagger the seasons so as to take advantage of prime purchasing seasons and to let Otaku recoup their losses from spending on the series so they are at maximum buying power and renewed interest for when the series returns. In my experience interest wanes towards the middle of a series so by getting rid of that middle you can eliminate the burn out from viewers and capture their full attention again later on. Just look at the amount of clamouring for the new Code Geass season.

The DVD exclusive episodes is kind of a cheapshot though I have to say. It's like they are saying "So you want to see the end of our story....THEN YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO PAY FOR IT! AHAHAHAHAHA!" Ahem, well you can just count them as OVA's then I guess.

Rasuberi

2008-03-20, 13:25

Really touching episode, in my opinion... I've always liked Nagisa the most though, so it's to be expected. I just hope Kyoto Animation makes a second series for the after story .

Kristen

2008-03-20, 13:29

So, it's a preview for episode 23, not an announcement of any sort. Looks like one more nailbiting week trying to see whether we get a second season announced or not.

orion

2008-03-20, 13:32

Ep.22 is the end of the TV run. Ep. 23 and 24 are on DVD only IIRC.

DJ_RockmanX

2008-03-20, 13:33

So, it's a preview for episode 23, not an announcement of any sort. Looks like one more nailbiting week trying to see whether we get a second season announced or not.

*facepalm*

Ep.22 is the end of the TV run. Ep. 23 and 24 are on DVD only IIRC.

23 is still broadcast, hence the preview that caused me to facepalm.

Kaioshin Sama

2008-03-20, 13:36

So, it's a preview for episode 23, not an announcement of any sort. Looks like one more nailbiting week trying to see whether we get a second season announced or not.

That's so......classic. What we are probably looking at is a special bonus announcement on the episode 24 DVD.

orion

2008-03-20, 13:45

Confused.

I thought that ep. 23 and 24 were DVD only episodes. So ep. 23 is TV and ep. 24 is DVD only?

Klashikari

2008-03-20, 13:46

As expected, and for people who still have weird doubt:
There is NO After Story content in this episode AT ALL. Hence, we won't get hobbily mauled rushed end.

here is the little summary I can somehow put with the screencaps on the usual place

Nagisa is extremely gloomy and lifeless after the shocking revelation about her parents
Tomoya is completely unable to cheer her up
Next day, School festival. Tomoyo is the patrol, in her usual bear suit. Mei is paying a visit!
Tomoya talks a bit with youhei, and soon enough, the later and the other drama club members are trying to cheer Nagisa up, but it is uneffective. Her world is now grey
Tomoya bumps on Sanae at school.
Nagisa asks some videos from Yukine, and she is then watching lifelessly some video of plays performed by Akio.
Tomoya bumps on Yukine and asks if she saw Nagisa. This lead him to the reference room, where he bumps on nagisa, who is completely "dead".
Choir club finished their performance on stage and it is about the drama club turn. However, Nagisa didn't change her mindset at all.
Once on stage, she is unable to do anything and begins to cry out.
Akio intervenes and yell her from the audience zone, saying that they didn't give up their dream, as their dreams is to have Nagisa's dream granted!
After such long and strong declaration, Tomoya follows Akio's lead and scream as well, cheering Nagisa.
These were effective and Nagisa recovers her composure and begins her tale of the "illusionary world".
More scenes with the girl and the robot boy
The play is a succes. Nagisa and Tomoya are discussing alone on a bench but they suddenly have the surprising visit of Naoyuki.
Drama club is celebreting their victory along with Tomoyo, Misae and Mei (and Shimah!) at Youhei's room
At the end of the episode, a scene between Tomoya and Nagisa in the empty drama club room, at twilight. most likely the confession

Confused.

I thought that ep. 23 and 24 were DVD only episodes. So ep. 23 is TV and ep. 24 is DVD only?
Correct. Like I already posted many times, and on the Thread leading post, episode 23 will be broadcasted next week, as usual, but it doesn't have anything to do with the main plot.

orion

2008-03-20, 13:54

That's so......classic. What we are probably looking at is a special bonus announcement on the episode 24 DVD.

Well, it gives you an incentive to buy that last DVD. :heh:

Sorry I missed it Klashikari.

Espiecakes

2008-03-20, 14:04

Well isn't this just a hilarious turn of events.

Code Clannad'd.

Kaisos Erranon

2008-03-20, 14:10

Well isn't this just a hilarious turn of events.

Code Clannad'd.

I don't understand why this is bad thing.

Espiecakes

2008-03-20, 14:13

I don't understand why this is bad thing.No one said it was bad.

Kaisos Erranon

2008-03-20, 14:15

No one said it was bad.

That was what I got from your post... oh whatever.

Kaioshin Sama

2008-03-20, 14:18

I don't understand why this is bad thing.

Because a lot of people were apparently upset when Code Geass went on it's hiatus (note that was by no means the first time a series had done this, it's just the first time it had been made such a big deal of in a high profile one) and then Gundam 00 decided to do it to and now possibly Clannad. All three ultra-popular series splitting their seasons in rapid succession was kind of jarring. This has caused greater awareness of a trend that has come to be seen as something undesirable. Don't ask me why that is though. Perhaps viewers feel they are being toyed with too much in their viewership, which is sort of true.

Klashikari

2008-03-20, 14:22

It is especially more noticeable with Code Geass because first season was done with a cliffhanger, which is why it stirred a trend, compared to previous series using the same splitting season scheldule.

That said, in Clannad case, anyone who doesn't know about the game (so existence of After Story) would be hardly have anything to think "missing" anyway.

*shigoto shigoto* Well then, is that now possible to revert back the thread on topic now? It is quite pointless to make a trend on "why another season/cutting this short?".
Please stick on opinions, contents etc of Episode 22. If you feel you have to comment on that "weird" episode scheldule, post in the general discussion thread instead.

Kinny Riddle

2008-03-20, 14:47

Akio, you are the man

Well done for knocking some sense into that sometimes silly, but overall kind-hearted daughter of his. She should not be allowed to think that she is at fault for the end of his dreams, but rather, her very presence in their hearts and seeing her happy is the continuation of that dream, though it has changed.

Tomoya finally did what everyone has expected but had waited forever to do, and that is confess his feelings to Nagisa. Happy Ending? No doubt.

If this is considered the end and you want to compare just these 22 episodes with Kanon 2006 and AIR, then, even I will have to say that Kanon 2006 and AIR have more emotional impact, as those two series covered the complete story while only half has passed for Clannad.

Therefore I reserve judgment until Kyo-Ani makes the announcement should they go ahead with a second series. It could be never, but I'm willing to bet my head that they will, for the second half, as I've always said, is the true essence of the whole story.

A Sunohara gaffe that may be lost on non-Japanese speakers. When told by Tomoya to go cheer Nagisa up, Sunohara tells Nagisa to perform an interesting spell by writing the kanji "hito" 人 (person) on her palm three times. Kotomi then interjects and says Sunohara's writing it the wrong way, as the kanji he wrote was "hairu" 入 (enter). Kyou makes fun of Sunohara's ineptitude in writing simple kanji. :D

Both kanji have similar shapes, but the direction of the strokes are different, for "hito", the longer stroke is on the left, while for "hairu" it's on the right. (To make it more obvious in Unicode encoding, a short horizontal stroke is added on top of "hairu" to indicate it's starting from top left to bottom right. )

We'll see what solution the fansubbers can come out with.

Klashikari

2008-03-20, 15:15

Usual drill
Episode 22: Bullet summary (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/clannad-episode-22-end/)

Very powerful scenes, and I must take off my hat for KA, for many little details which convey really the mood, continuity and so forth.
MANLY AKIO !!! (ho wait! this is a pleonasm :heh:)

harukamae

2008-03-20, 15:35

Awesome, just awesome way to end the season!

I guess I was expecting something more climactic (DAMNIT TOMOYA! WHERE"S THE EPIC KISS?!?!) but I do think it was a good fit, especially when "Two Shadows" started playing. Poor Sunohara, he looked so sad - he must've really liked Nagisa.

Or Tomoya...HIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!

The play was interesting, I liked it better in this version than in the Toei movie.

Fingers are crossed for a season two! For now, the omake episode seems to be something to look forward to!

Rembr

2008-03-20, 16:23

22.

Nagisa did not redeem herself.

However, the preview for next week has redeemed this entire series.

I now have vigorous anticipation for next thursday.

deffusse

2008-03-20, 16:57

Hm, as an formaly end episode, this one was too strange for me.... even the developement was too quick. Nagisa as a sacrifice in one hand, the everyone else like heroes to save her on the othrer. I can't believe my eyes.

That concept ruined the whole serie.... but 2 more specials to go, so maybe something else is going to happend;)

Yukinokesshou

2008-03-20, 17:42

Okay, I haven't watched this episode yet, but on the topic of season 2...

Exactly how popular is the Clannad anime in Japan? Popular enough for a 2nd season to generate lots of revenue?

And for those of you who follow Japanese forums, is the clamour for a 2nd season as loud there as it is here? Or are the Japanese generally satisfied because they've already got a game and a movie?

I'll keep my fingers crossed. I'm a sucker for family-love dramas. Air TV and the Clannad Movie both reduced me to a pile of mush :heh:

Rembr

2008-03-20, 17:45

Okay, I haven't watched this episode yet, but on the topic of season 2...

Exactly how popular is the Clannad anime in Japan? Popular enough for a 2nd season to generate lots of revenue?

And for those of you who follow Japanese forums, is the clamour for a 2nd season as loud there as it is here? Or are the Japanese generally satisfied because they've already got a game and a movie?Kyoani is a crowd favorite over there much like it is over here. Haruhi and Lucky Star is some crazy numbers generator.

I wouldn't be surprised if they pitched a 2nd season of Clannad.

Yukinokesshou

2008-03-20, 17:54

orion

2008-03-20, 18:07

Leo_Otaku

2008-03-20, 19:16

monir

2008-03-20, 19:43

Reminder:

Stick to the discussion for episode at hand which is episode 22. If I've to resort to banning people just because they are unable to get the clue, I wouldn't hesitate. I'm serious by the way.

Also, please direct any further speculation for a possibility of a 2nd season to either of these threads in the following:

here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=55257) or there (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=44299). Let's keep this discussion focused to episode 22 please!? Thank you.

Kagedanji

2008-03-20, 19:52

After Story is the best...

Anyway really great epiosde I love the details that Kyo-Ani brought into it. Next ep may cover some sunhara mei? I bet 24 is the finishing of Nagisa arc and then we will get a second season. I have no doubt now ^-^

22 is the end. 23 is a special. After story second season would be a great idea, Hope they can also do Tomoyo After :D.

I'm sorry, I just wanted to clarify. Back on track. Don't ban me.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-20, 21:41

Ahh...It felt too fast, too short, even for 22 weeks. Clannad is at it's end of the season, but judging from the screenshots, I'm pretty sure most of the stuff that has been left hanging in the season itself will be wrapped up with good emotional and entertainment value.

I look forward mostly to the visit from Naoyuki, and what will become of the relationship between him and Tomoya. Since I have no inkling of the After Story and what's it like, I assume that there might be a viable conclusion between them here, seeing as everything else seems to make for a happy ending.

Just wondering why they would show a preview of the DVD-exclusive episode 23 after the episode. Making more money, I suppose? ;)

Rembr

2008-03-20, 21:54

That's not the DVD only episode they previewed.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-20, 22:01

It isn't, huh? That's what you get for hearing too many rumors. :heh:

Zenemis

2008-03-20, 22:19

Nicely done episode in my opinion, though I would've like to have seen Tomoya have more confidence asking Nagisa out; they've been through a fair bit together after all.

Disappointed at not seeing a kiss, but enjoyable overall.

Decagon

2008-03-21, 00:20

Ep 22.
Maybe it's the Key-sense tingling, but the beginning of the play scene put me somewhere between extremely heartwarming and wanting to laugh at how absurd it was. Maybe it's just the mid-semester cynicism. Well, that aside, Nakahara Mai's voice acting was wonderful. The AMV stills near the end (before they went back to the clubroom) felt weird. I couldn't grasp the time progression on those even though it's supposed to be just the day after.

Without mentioning something bannable, I'll just say this is a solid end to a solid story.

Ottocycle

2008-03-21, 00:41

The final clubroom scene was without a doubt this show at its best. Not to mention it's only the studio's second confession scene.

Got to say it's far better than their first though, IMHO, due to the far greater impact of the whole sequence, and it being a grand culmination of what we have seen to be just lurking about.

@Kinny: Yes, Akio FTW. the buildup was good, and his entrance did not disappoint. A celebration of the family indeed.

mandarb916

2008-03-21, 01:45

gave it a 7...would have been a 5~6 w/o Akio's monologue and Naoyuki imho. it felt like they were stretching minimal content for the entire episode until the last few min where it just felt really rushed.

Overall, though, I'd say maybe an 8~8.5 as a series. It's unfortunate that a story arc as important as Yukine's wasn't included :(

pagan poor

2008-03-21, 02:01

Before I even watch the subs:

Akio = GAR

More later... maybe.

Ascaloth

2008-03-21, 02:28

Watched the TWH-Sprocket sub of Episode 22.

So, let's see. Nobody died. Nagisa's tragedy wasn't quite on the same level as Ayu's or Misuzu's. Basically, CLANNAD (TV) wasn't the epic tragedy that AIR (TV) was.

Yet, the execution of this episode was fantastic. I have never seen KyoAni display the hammering so much guilt on a character as they did with Nagisa, yet they did it in a way that really shone. And Akio's monologues sealed the deal for me.

The confession at the end was a bit quick, so 9 for this episode. In fact, it didn't even feel like an ending at all; if I didn't know better, I would be outraged if I thought that it ends here. But as it is, it looks like it's probably not gonna end like this after all...even if KyoAni is evil enough to make us wait at least another week (and possibly up till July 16) to make the announcement everyone wants to hear. >_>

Blog article coming tonight. I'm not writing the Final Critique until I know for sure that I'm not getting any more.

Flandre Scarlet

2008-03-21, 03:26

Tomoya's way of telling his love for Nagisa is very impressive.

If I were Nagisa, I would accept his confession.
Perhaps the saying ("If you become my lover tomorrow morning・・・"） prevail
among some couples in Japan:D

Darkside

2008-03-21, 03:39

I felt that the end of the series seemed very short. Perhaps they spent a little too much time on Fuko and Kotomi. The confession scene was very nice, and yes Akio is very GAR lol. Though if I were Nagisa, I would never want to come to school again after that happening haha.

Kagemaru

2008-03-21, 03:47

Superb! That's pretty much all I can say about it!

...

Nah, let's add some more. XD

I was SO moved when Akio came in running and called out to Nagisa, his voice and ideas and everything, along with Sanae and Tomoya reassuring Nagisa as well, was a brilliant scene altogether!

And, heh, as to be expected, I totally cried when I saw that overjoyed face of Nagisa. I just couldn't help it! ^______________^
"Would it be more interesting if we would be lovers tomorrow?" is SUCH a Tomoya-like sentence, Seriously. XD

A good ending to a beautiful anime. Heck, I don't even need anything After Story or second season something like that, it's good the way it is, in my opinion.

@pagan poor: GAR? o_o;

Cyz

2008-03-21, 03:52

What!? Done already!? That's one good anime finished.

--> :topicoff: For some reason, I didn't get emotional like Kanon and AIR :( I think I need to re-watch this again :nod:

brocko

2008-03-21, 04:00

Hypernova

2008-03-21, 04:17

Moe is emo spoken backwards.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/56/snapshot20080321221507vq2.jpg

The human tear gland has a fixed capacity for instantaneous output, the current quantity displayed exceeds said capacity
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/359/snapshot20080321221754zb0.jpg

bladeofdarkness

2008-03-21, 04:20

BTW just a quick question, anyone know the name of the insert song?

two shadows (like the ep name)
its the ED song from the game school arc

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-21, 04:37

Done with this episode (Thanks to TWH!).

There were no tears shed for me, but I do felt that the scenes mostly with Akio, Tomoya and co cheering on Nagisa to be extremely powerful, especially because of the fact that the entire atmosphere before that was one of extreme worry (for the characters) and despair (for Tomoya. He looked ready to give up until Akio rushed in to save the day and gave him courage to step out and answer for Nagisa's friends). Akio for the family, Tomoya for the friends. I doubt there won't be a few people deeming the entire scene ovely dramatic, though. ;)

Commendation on the inner thoughts shown to us in Nagisa's mind as it ran through her head. IMO, it was the truest reflection of the negative side of her-Being self-reproaching and continuing to feel lousy about herself as she watched her father's video. I suppose the repetition of the words and scenes in her mind was meant to be shown as a message that hit straight home to her very core, resulting in her breaking down.

What I wouldn't give to see Akio's school life and how he was like before and when he met Sanae. :heh: He's probably earned more GAR points in three episodes than shounen anime protagonists in-I don't know, a hundred? :heh: (By the way, that play it was in...Does it happen to be Julius Caesar? Kick me if I'm wrong, since I never had the chance to study literature. :heh: )

The ending gave off a 'All's well that ends well' vibe, though by now most of us would know that Clannad doesn't end here, but the ending scene with a confession was rather apt. Although Tomoya's issue with Naoyuki isn't entirely resolved, he has at last come to terms with his escapism and started trying to bridge the chasm between them, even if it's just a small indication.

Various small things I probably fail to mention, but I'll probably rewatch the episode to take note all over again. ;)

Yukinokesshou

2008-03-21, 04:50

Heh, I think the final insert song ruined the atmosphere. I was praying for it to end before THAT thing happened. BGM was better in the movie for the equivalent scene (I believe it was the Movie Dango song, piano/chimes soft version).

And about those tears, she's leaking cerebrospinal fluid!! o_O

Addendum
I wanted to hear Nagisa singing the whole Dango song on stage. Gah. We've only ever heard her sing the first line.

FCS-31

2008-03-21, 05:04

"two shawdos" is wonderful.

melody fits to image,and lyric fits to story(ture,the lyric's meaning fit to the story very well)

I am so warm,and happy in the end,from my deep heart.

BTW just a quick question, anyone know the name of the insert song?

－影二つ－

means "two shawdos",you can image that It means two persons' shawdos get together,not leave.

MeoTwister5

2008-03-21, 05:10

IIRC Two Shadows was not played in the School Arcs right? If I recall it was only played in the After Story.

Personally I'd rather they played "Ana" here since it fits more with the current story. Two Shadows if I'm correct as a much deeper and more symbolic meaning if it would be played in the REAL ending, which we may or may not ever see in animated form....

That said, one of the best and most emotional confessions evar.

Like I told a friend before, I never believed in two people ever being fated for each other in any way possible, yet the Clannad game and anime is the first form of any art form that shows me that two people can be so destined for each other that it hurts, and it's an insult to them to deny that they are.

Now of course how the confession all turns out depends on the After Story, but looks like we'll be seeing that in June...:heh::heh::heh:

FCS-31

2008-03-21, 05:18

Well

I think the best song in clannad is of course "little hands"

and the second one is "ひとひらの桜" ,base on BGM "遥かな年月",like "over" and "girl of wind" this song is very beautiful.
It is the portrayal of tomoya and nagisa's love.

MeoTwister5

2008-03-21, 05:19

Oh yeah Little Hands I remember now my mistake.:heh:

I checked back on the ending of Nagisa's route in the game and yes it's the right song they played for the series.

But I still wanted them to play Ana, which is a beautiful song even if the lyrics made no sense.:rolleyes:

And yes Little Hands is the best song of the game, and I play it alongside the game instrumental soundtrack whenever I study.

On that note, the Illusionary World in this episode was brilliantly beautiful. God knows what they can do IF we see season 2.

Rhyel

2008-03-21, 05:24

Very good episode. I want to watch it again in wide screen. :D

But many questions about Illusionary World still open.

Yukinokesshou

2008-03-21, 05:29

Little Hands? 小さな手のひら? Oooh, I love that song, my favourite ^_^!! Yes, if only they had played it for that scene. They probably would have done so but wanted to be different from the movie (since 小さな手のひら is the movie ED).

Is Ana the "Engrish" song? My grandmother in Shanghai can write better English than that. Oops, I hope I'm not veering off topic again.

Deathkillz

2008-03-21, 07:05

The most emotional part of the episode for me was Akio and Co's big wake-up call to Nagisa, kinda almost got teary there for a minute... Most emotional overall out of the whole 22 episode run, I'd say would be the Fuuko arc.

I agree, but to be fair, the others (twins and Tomoyo) didn't get much of an arc :rolleyes:

As for me. This episode just hits all the right cords.

Highlight scene obviously has to be the play...where Akio tells Nagisa bluntly how stupid she is for worrying. The meaning behind parenting and how their dreams has been entrusted with Nagisa struck me as extremely powerful and moving. Perhaps it is because it is something I really believe in myself which made it especially realistic and just gave the right "wow" impact. Gosh, if Akio was any more GAR...

Second favorite scene is Tomoya being embarassed for once. Yep, he is a tsundere during the confession scene but the end result was well achieved and heartwarming. And yet again I was surprised that it was Tomoya who made the confession. Scenes like these are so rare nowadays.

Overall a good end to everything ^^

(now waiting for season2!).

Kristen

2008-03-21, 07:32

If they are planning to resolve the story with this, it is a failure of an episode. If this is the end of part 1, it is a work of absolute genius.

The addition of the video of Nagisa's father was brilliant in every way imaginable. His reactions and being able to project that into Nagisa's attitude was just too great.

I was hoping for a little more of the interactions between the drama club during the play, like involve Kyou, Ryou, and Kotomi a bit more to show the team effort and further elaborate on that change they made.

And I really liked how they showed Nagisa on stage, being able to cry and all. Akio's entrance was just beautiful, and I found it to be very emotional.

I did NOT like seeing Tomoya's father at the school festival. The instant I saw him I cringed, and the entire time I was begging "Don't come to terms, don't come to terms, please!" And if that was how they are planning to resolve his story "Hey, don't drink so much", then this series just lost a couple of points overall.

To me, I believe this is the end of part 1, so I'm going to rate it a 9. If it's the end of the series overall, it would get a 3 for failing to resolve anything meaningful, except Nagisa.

Also... Somehow, some way, they should have not ended this episode with Dango Daikazoku. Make the insert song the ED.

Joachim

2008-03-21, 07:41

fhew and that end clannad (or clannad part 1 if there is clannad season 2)

am i the only one praying that kyoani will continue with after story RIGHT after episode 23 with just a single week break...(such wishful thinking :( )

don't do this to meee

Meatrose

2008-03-21, 07:41

If they are planning to resolve the story with this, it is a failure of an episode. If this is the end of part 1, it is a work of absolute genius.

I was just about to write that myself. I completely agree with you. =)

Khaos

2008-03-21, 08:05

Not even a kiss?
Second Season incoming...

Rhyel

2008-03-21, 08:12

I did NOT like seeing Tomoya's father at the school festival. The instant I saw him I cringed, and the entire time I was begging "Don't come to terms, don't come to terms, please!" And if that was how they are planning to resolve his story "Hey, don't drink so much", then this series just lost a couple of points overall.

To me was the opposite. "Say something, Tomoya, please, fast" :heh:

Deathscyther

2008-03-21, 08:17

If they are planning to resolve the story with this, it is a failure of an episode. If this is the end of part 1, it is a work of absolute genius.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well.

brocko

2008-03-21, 08:21

To be honest i don't quite get what you guys mean when you mention the episode a failure as an ending to Clannad. I personally found the ending somewhat satisfying really and even if there isn't going to be the potential After Story 2nd Season, I'd still think of it in the same way. The only string left un-knotted from my point of view was just Tomoya and his Dad and even then, there was still a somewhat slight hint at conciliation between the two. It was a pretty fulfilling ending if you ask me, even if there wasn't a kiss...

But during the confession scene, when Nagisa added Okazaki's name on the blackboard next to hers, i was half expecting Tomoya to go add a love umbrella over their names and then following up with the confession. When he just outright blurted it however, i was slightly disappointed that my prediction didn't quite fall through :heh:

And i agree with what ChrissieXD mentioned, ending it with the normal Dango ending, kinda lessened the impact somewhat... =/

Deathscyther

2008-03-21, 08:33

Well, if there wouldn't be another season, then it would be pretty disappointing to end the series like this. I agree, the episode was very good. I liked the play, Akio's (and tomoya's) screaming out to Nagisa, Tomoya's cofession. It was all very well done.

But we still don't know much about the illusionary world and why Nagisa and Tomoya know about it. And why is it so important in this story?

There are still more scenes to come (and it would be weird to show some, and then suddenly stop)

Tomoya's family situation hasn't been 'resolved' as well. He might have shown some emotion, but the situation with his father is still bad.

And then there is the OP song of course. We haven't seen a lot of scenes of the OP song yet. Why show them if they won't be animated. I have much hope for a season 2.

So this ending was bittersweet, but without a season 2, the series would just feel incomplete or so to say. That's why it would be disappointing if this was the ending of the entire series. But for ending part 1 this episode was perfect.

Shiroth

2008-03-21, 09:17

I agree, but to be fair, the others (twins and Tomoyo) didn't get much of an arc :rolleyes:
I'm glad it turned out like that.

Nagisa for me is what makes this series. Not only is she the bases of the entire story, she is always so enjoyable to see each and every week.

bladeofdarkness

2008-03-21, 09:59

one thing that did bother me
nagisa still cant call him tomoya-kun
i loved this ep a great deal but i am really hoping for a 2nd season

Spectacular_Insanity

2008-03-21, 11:16

I really liked the ending. Like much of the series, I found events unexpected, charming, and well-executed. I was very satisfied with the ending and I still want more, but I wasn't left with the sense of emptiness that crappy endings leave me with. :)

10/10

SSJiffy

2008-03-21, 11:32

But we still don't know much about the illusionary world and why Nagisa and Tomoya know about it. And why is it so important in this story?

I don't remember anime Tomoya having known before hand about the illusionary world, he seemed genuinely surprised when Nagisa told him and the drama club about her play. I'm not sure how it came to Nagisa in the first place though.

Moving on, I just realized that there was no Fuko in the last two episodes. OMG, imagine had she of hijacked the tension when Nagisa was on stage. Hahaha!

Klashikari

2008-03-21, 11:38

The human tear gland has a fixed capacity for instantaneous output, the current quantity displayed exceeds said capacity
I have seen things like this IRL for instance (and ever worse than that). And it isn't exactly instantaneous considering how she was "retaining" her tears.

I don't remember anime Tomoya having known before hand about the illusionary world, he seemed genuinely surprised when Nagisa told him and the drama club about her play. I'm not sure how it came to Nagisa in the first place though.
Tomoya felt that story was kinda familiar, as if he heard it before. This was shown in episode 20.

mikesince83

2008-03-21, 11:49

As a stand alone series without any continuation, the ending for CLANNAD was weak at best. There is far too much unresolved even without any inclusion of the after story.

That being said, as others have mentioned it has the potential to be strong beginning if tied in with another season.

The episode itself: It was nice to see Nagisa and Tomoya walking around the festival together. Some well played suspense during the stage scene had me really feeling for Nagisa's predicament. I would have liked to see a little more focus on Nagisa and Tomoya instead of Nagisa and her parents especially considering it was the last episode for the season, but they did at least include a confession.

On another note, some of the events in Nagisa's arc seemed a bit too 'conveniently timed' for my taste. For example, finding the photos the night before the play and then the video of her father (spouting lines about his bright future in theater of course) shortly before going on stage. This may just be due to the limited time available for her arc, but it was particularly noticeable for her as apposed to Kotomi or Fuko.

King Lycan

2008-03-21, 11:56

:heh: Clannad rocked i wish i started watching it earlier
But i wish Sunohara went out with Nagisa ._.
9.6/10 rounded up to 10

Klashikari

2008-03-21, 12:37

On another note, some of the events in Nagisa's arc seemed a bit too 'conveniently timed' for my taste. For example, finding the photos the night before the play and then the video of her father (spouting lines about his bright future in theater of course) shortly before going on stage. This may just be due to the limited time available for her arc, but it was particularly noticeable for her as apposed to Kotomi or Fuko.
That is actually the problem in many stories in fact. (well it is not really a "problem" to begin with I believe)

If we stick with Clannad case, we can say it is way too convenient for Fuuko to be able to stay materialized just before Kouko get married. Same can be applied with Kotomi who got the suitcase just after she resolved her "issue" with Tomoya.

It is rather a problem with "triggers" etc, which require the appropriate context to deliver the impact.
If these aforementioned events didn't happen in their context, they would be quite weak or nonsensical.

This can be applied to most stories, so well.

greyhawk

2008-03-21, 12:43

As a stand alone series without any continuation, the ending for CLANNAD was weak at best. There is far too much unresolved even without any inclusion of the after story.
If you ask me, I like that kind of ending :heh: At least I know I can hope for a continuation, plus I like things that are open to interpretation.
To my slight disappointment, the episode wasn't as dramatic as some said it would be. I ought to rewatch it sometime I think. Probably when I'm able to sympathize with Nagisa. (sometimes, realizing your own dream doesn't bring as much happiness as caring for your own family, she didn't have to be that emo about her Dad; plus an actor !? not exactly my cup of tea, a scientist/technologist would be preferable. OK, just my personal b*tching...)
A cliched "happy ending" but thoroughly a satisfying one, yupe it fits the description. Not a masterpiece, for sure, but I guess there's always the AS to look forward to:D

Kaioshin Sama

2008-03-21, 12:47

Yeah, about Haruhi... as a Clannad lover, I'm actually a bit uncomfortable with the Haruhi fandom. Haruhi's a big money machine. If Kyo Ani are swamped with too many Haruhi demands, they might make 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th Haruhi seasons... and Clannad After Story will get pushed aside because it isn't as profitable T_T

Family love >>>>>>> aliens, espers and time travellers.

But didn't you know, Haruhi Season 2 is airing in April......is what I would say if I were imagining things.

Most people have the right idea, wait for an announcement. I'm sure whatever they decide to do it will be profitable though going by Japanese otaku's general love of all things Kyoani (It would probably be unwise to suddenly drop the whole Moe girl motif though). Haruhi can easily wait at least another year and it wouldn't make too much of a difference.

but yes, Haruhi fans are among the scariest people I've ever met. If they are about to go on a rampage then I'd rather give them their second season and run like hell then have them use their "secret weapon".

mikesince83

2008-03-21, 12:49

Atheuz

2008-03-21, 12:52

Really touching episode, in my opinion... I've always liked Nagisa the most though, so it's to be expected. I just hope Kyoto Animation makes a second series for the after story .

Oh god no, this anime was mediocre in comparison to Kyoto Animation's high standard - They better not make another dumb dating anime when everybody is waiting for Haruhi Season 2, even an extension to Clannad TV would be an outrage.

Kaisos Erranon

2008-03-21, 12:54

Klashikari

2008-03-21, 12:56

Klashikari: Right, I simply believe in Nagisa's case it could have been handled better. In the hands of a skilled writer/director similar situations carry the same impact but are not so blatantly obvious in their role as plot progression.
Yes, I did not think you were posting something unreasonable at all. i just brought my opinion about "trigger" and such of such kind of stories (same goes for pure drama series etc).
I believe it is quite difficult, even changing the pace for that change however. That is to say, the original script would be rather "at fault", considering that trigger for Nagisa's "drama" is not even explained in the game (she basically found the stuff, without much a lead up how she could).

Oh god no, this anime was mediocre in comparison to Kyoto Animation's high standard - They better not make another dumb dating anime when everybody is waiting for Haruhi Season 2, even an extension to Clannad TV would be an outrage.
That's your opinion, but you are sure using very harsh and severe words for this series.

But if you think it is just a "dumb dating" anime, I think you missed the poinbt, even after 22 episodes, which is quite stunning.
I guess you didn't like Kanon either, am i wrong?

That is to say, you gotta deal with it if a studio choose to stay with a brand/franchise.

Deathscyther

2008-03-21, 13:01

I'll be waiting for a Haruhi 2 and Clannad 2. I enjoyed both and both need a second season to clear things up.

Klashikari

2008-03-21, 13:06

Alright people... I know you are all enthusiast for "X" second season.
However, I must remind you are on Clannad Episode 22 thread. Therefore, please STICK with the contents of the said topic, and not going overboard with "ending this, "second season NOW" that". Be it Clannad, Haruhi, FMP or whatever.

If you want to elaborate about such things, please use the general threads of each respective franchise, but keep these comments away from this thread, Thanks.
Any unecessary trend of such comments will be deleted.

Atheuz

2008-03-21, 13:15

That's your opinion, but you are sure using very harsh and severe words for this series.

But if you think it is just a "dumb dating" anime, I think you missed the poinbt, even after 22 episodes, which is quite stunning.
I guess you didn't like Kanon either, am i wrong?

That is to say, you gotta deal with it if a studio choose to stay with a brand/franchise.

Of course it's my opinion - The fact is that The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was a lot more popular than Clannad TV will ever be and that just proves that it's just not my opinion, it's the opinion of a lot of people, I'd say you're a minority and I'm a majority.

It's a cliché story that's been done so many times, if this hadn't been done by Kyoto Animation it wouldn't have been popular at all and would have another trash anime nobody would want to watch due to the massive amount of clichés repeated over and over.

I loved Kanon 2006, but Clannad TV was nearly a copy of it, with slightly different characters and a slightly different story - And it's really getting old, I love Kyoto Animation, but they can do so much better than they did with Clannad TV which is shown by Full Metal Panic, Haruhi Season 1, Lucky Star and Air.

I am trying to cope with the fact that Kyoto Animation likes to do dating animes, but they could at least try harder than this and not just copy what they've done before - Which is why I said "dumb dating" anime, because they can continue making dating animes(I'd rather see Haruhi Season 2 first though), but at least do something new, they somewhat tried with the dodgy thing with the girl being stuck alone in the other world - But it just seemed weird and there wasn't ever any closure to it.

I haven't watched episode 22 yet, just so you know.

Mirrinus

2008-03-21, 13:16

Haruhi may be my favorite anime, but when deluded fans feel the need to bash on other shows by the same company just to compensate for not having a second season yet, I feel very ashamed that I'm even associated with such people. This is why the Haruhi fandom is looked down upon by many: because some of its constituents don't know how to behave properly and deliberately seem to seek antagonism from other anime fans. So please save some grief for the rest of us, and learn to shut up already. The world (and Kyoto Animation) doesn't bend to your every whim.

And I have already rebutted the whole "Clannad is the exact same thing as Kanon" thing to death already, even in this very thread. If you're so dense that you can't see beyond the most superficial of resemblences, then there's really no hope for you, eh?

Yes I realize this post is a lot more angry that I usually am...but this is an excellent way to ruin my first relatively free day after two hard midterms.

As for the episode itself, I was totally going "Will he? Won't he?" at the end, and when it finally came, the catharsis I felt was fantastic. Well, at least they wrapped up this portion. As everyone else said, if this were the end of the entire series, I'd be outraged that they left so many loose ends. That simply cannot be the end of Tomoya's problem with his father, and we never even got to see the end of the illusionary world story. This episode only heightens any demand for a season 2.

Ascaloth

2008-03-21, 13:22

Blog article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD (TV), Episode 22 (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1014)

Well, I sure am going to miss writing for CLANNAD (TV)....that is, unless KyoAni decides to pull a fast one on us yet again. >_>

Klashikari

2008-03-21, 13:23

Of course it's my opinion - The fact is that The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was a lot more popular than Clannad TV will ever be and that just proves that it's just not my opinion, it's the opinion of a lot of people, I'd say you're a minority and I'm a majority.
Popularity has nothing to do with "will they do that next" or not. popularity is a mere vector for market and potential to make a sequel, not that it would be a certain factor why a studio would make a series. If it was the case, Haruhi would have toncrap of sequels already, that's moot.

Furthermore, since when I talked about popularity? it has nothing to do with that, and I don't get what you are talking about majority or minority here. I do not expect any of the franchises to be "MUST DO SEQUEL" status, as it is a mere decision for the studio, not like people can force a studio to do X or Y sequel.
snipAs for the rest of your post. Agree to disagree. Whatever, if people can't have a common opinion of qualities and defaults of a series, I don't even think it would be a good idea to argue if X series is similar to Y.
Though, I would be quite amused to see what "if" Clannad was broadcasted before Kanon. Would kanon be treated as "Clannad V2"...? saa..."

I haven't watched episode 22 yet, just so you know.I will ask you: why are you complaining in this thread then?

*sigh* I'm already borderline bypassing what I asked already.

EDIT:
Just as a note, always striving to keep supply equal to demand isn't necessarily the best marketing strategy.
That's actually the point.
Atheuz argued that Haruhi should be done, adding the point "it is more popular than Clannad". That's why it is moot as, markerting wise, milking a trend or huge popularity/offering what the audience wants is not the best at all, like you said.

You are just confirming what i have said. If it was really the almighty markering plan, the said thing would get its second or even third season etc, which is hardly the fact here.

Kaisos Erranon

2008-03-21, 13:23

Kinny Riddle

2008-03-21, 13:29

I am trying to cope with the fact that Kyoto Animation likes to do dating animes, but they could at least try harder than this and not just copy what they've done before -

Kyo-Ani do not copy what they've done, they only adapt what other people have done. If you want to properly blame someone for giving you a "dumb dating" show, blame it on KEY. In terms of adaptation commitment, Kyo-Ani is impeccable.

but at least do something new, they somewhat tried with the dodgy thing with the girl being stuck alone in the other world - But it just seemed weird and there wasn't ever any closure to it.

The ending is supposed to be only half of the story. Whether there's a series 2 remains to be seen.

I haven't watched episode 22 yet, just so you know.

Then what the bloody hell are you doing here?

Kushi

2008-03-21, 13:35

I voted poor... iunno it really wasn't that bad of an episode, but it is perhaps the worse ending I've ever seen for well anything. And since they proclaimed this episode to be the ending I treated as the ending episode which in my honest opinion is the worse ending I have ever seen. Yes worse than shaman king.

Proto

2008-03-21, 13:44

Hmm... how would you rate it if you were to consider it as a standalone episode? How about as just a season ending?

I'm asking because I myself feel a little indecisive. Even as a season ending, this episode seems to lack a little more impact. On one hand I'm glad because it reinforces the Slice of life-ish feel that distinguish CLANNAD from its predecessors, so it helps to mark it as a more original work. On the other hand, I think it would have been better to create a little more urgency... I don't know how to put my finger on it. I'll give it another watch before giving my final opinion I guess.

Overall, I think the best way to treat this episode so as not to feel underwhelmed is just as a point where KyoAni decided to cut the story for now, because game-wise this is not even the end for the school arc. Let's wait and see what is left in store for us.

Atheuz

2008-03-21, 14:02

Then what the bloody hell are you doing here?

You might have noticed I haven't really been very optimistic about Clannad in this thread and I haven't exactly been chit-chatting about Episode 22. I haven't seen it because I know exactly how it ends. Tomoya hooks up with Nagisa and that's it - I entered the thread to look at the poll and read some spoilers to see if it was worth watching, then I read a few posts and I disagreed with some of them and then voiced my opinion, and that's what I'm doing here.

Rembr

2008-03-21, 14:03

Popularity has nothing to do with "will they do that next" or not. popularity is a mere vector for market and potential to make a sequel, not that it would be a certain factor why a studio would make a series. If it was the case, Haruhi would have toncrap of sequels already, that's moot.Just as a note, always striving to keep supply equal to demand isn't necessarily the best marketing strategy.

Proto

2008-03-21, 14:09

You might have noticed I haven't really been very optimistic about Clannad in this thread and I haven't exactly been chit-chatting about Episode 22. I haven't seen it because I know exactly how it ends. Tomoya hooks up with Nagisa and that's it - I entered the thread to look at the poll and read some spoilers to see if it was worth watching, then I read a few posts and I disagreed with some of them and then voiced my opinion, and that's what I'm doing here.

Basing your opinion on what they say he said she said and arguing with that basis against people who have 1st hand information, is pretty much equivalent to trying to argue with some Jews who lived in the Holocaust about how the Holocaust never happened because X historian and Y group said it didn't occurred.

Atheuz

2008-03-21, 14:38

Basing your opinion on what they say he said she said and arguing with that basis against people who have 1st hand information, is pretty much equivalent to trying to argue with some Jews who lived in the Holocaust about how the Holocaust never happened because X historian and Y group said it didn't occurred.

I wanted to see if it was worth watching because my view of this anime has been steadily declining ever since it hit episode 10 and I haven't really been all uppity every time another Clannad episode was released, there is absolutely nothing wrong with seeing if it's worth watching by reading spoilers, posts and following the poll, because really, after episode 20, I see this anime as a chore to watch rather than something I can enjoy.

I'm not arguing about this episode, I'm arguing whether this anime should be continued or Kyoto Animation should do another dating anime instead of finally continuing with Haruhi - What happened was that I saw a post, that expressed hope that Kyoto Animation continued the series and I disagreed with it and I wanted to express that - That's all it was, you guys apparently thought ill of my post because it was negative towards the anime - Sure it was off topic, but I just wanted to express my opinion about his post and the anime as a whole(Which is negative I must admit, I only really liked the art in this anime).

I'll stop then, seeing as you guys obviously won't stop - I merely gave response where response was required, except for the response I gave at the start of this discussion.

AcroDave

2008-03-21, 15:00

If this is considered the end and you want to compare just these 22 episodes with Kanon 2006 and AIR, then, even I will have to say that Kanon 2006 and AIR have more emotional impact

Yup. Instead of going out with a bang, the series kind of fizzled to an end (No kiss?!?! wtf?) I've felt this way all along, but now that we're at the last episode, I can say this with certainty: Despite the amazing animation, and some genuine laugh-out-loud moments, this show was definitely not greater than the sum of it's parts.

I loved Kanon 2006, but Clannad TV was nearly a copy of it, with slightly different characters and a slightly different story - And it's really getting old, I love Kyoto Animation, but they can do so much better than they did with Clannad TV which is shown by Full Metal Panic, Haruhi Season 1, Lucky Star and Air.

Quoted for 100% agreement. Kyoto, please stop with the Key adaptations, and move on to some more interesting properties.

I entered the thread to look at the poll and read some spoilers to see if it was worth watching

Haha! You came to the wrong forum. People here hand out 10/10s to Clannad, the way Fuko hands out starfishes! And if you don't agree that Clannad is the greatest anime evar, they jump on you like a pack of rabid hyenas.

I'll stop then, seeing as you guys obviously won't stop - I merely gave response where response was required

No, don't. Some of us feel exactly the same way. There's nothing wrong with having a different opinion than the majority, despite what some here believe.

DJ_RockmanX

2008-03-21, 15:05

Yup. Instead of going out with a bang, the series kind of fizzled to an end (No kiss?!?! wtf?) I've felt this way all along, but now that we're at the last episode, I can say this with certainty: Despite the amazing animation, and some genuine laugh-out-loud moments, this show was definitely not greater than the sum of it's parts.

There's more to love relationships than kisses. Learn something about real life.

Quoted for 100% agreement. Kyoto, please stop with the Key adaptations, and move on to some more interesting properties.

"Interesting" being the key object of subjectivity here.

Haha! You came to the wrong forum. People here hand out 10/10s to Clannad, the way Fuko hands out starfishes! And if you don't agree that Clannad is the greatest anime evar, they jump on you like a pack of rabid hyenas.

Even Kaioshin wouldn't go this far anymore.

No, don't. Some of us feel exactly the same way. There's nothing wrong with having a different opinion than the majority, despite what some here believe.

Absolutely right. But you guys are doing it in all the wrong ways.

Proto

2008-03-21, 15:08

Yup. Instead of going out with a bang, the series kind of fizzled to an end (No kiss?!?! wtf?) I've felt this way all along, but now that we're at the last episode, I can say this with certainty: Despite the amazing animation, and some genuine laugh-out-loud moments, this show was definitely not greater than the sum of it's parts.

Not every love proposal ends with a kiss, and anyway argument-wise such a thing would do more harm than good. Nagisa pertains much more the shy, slow-going type, and it would be a while, story wise, till one would see their first kiss. And again, while it is perfectly possible to close the book and stamp a review of CLANNAD, it is still kinda unfair to do so, since the most thought provoking section and the actual epilogue has yet to be animated. Consider this as the ending of Da Capo SS. You can evaluate the season as a whole, but you know the story has yet to see the true ending , and thus any ranking that tries to evaluate the story as a whole has to wait if it wants to retain objectivity.

Haha! You came to the wrong forum. People here hand out 10/10s to Clannad, the way Fuko hands out starfishes! And if you don't agree that Clannad is the greatest anime evar, they jump on you like a pack of rabid hyenas.

Ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem). Attacking the proponents instead of the proposals has been formally demonstrated to be a logical fallacy, and is not considered to be a valid argument.

IRJustman

2008-03-21, 15:18

Haha! You came to the wrong forum. People here hand out 10/10s to Clannad, the way Fuko hands out starfishes! And if you don't agree that Clannad is the greatest anime evar, they jump on you like a pack of rabid hyenas.

I would have dismissed your post but this part crosses the line requiring me to respond.

No, don't. Some of us feel exactly the same way. There's nothing wrong with having a different opinion than the majority, despite what some here believe.

It's one thing to express a differing opinion with well-reasoned explanations and quite another to attack others and others' with yours.

--Ian.

Mirrinus

2008-03-21, 15:22

Gee, with the whole "it's my opinion" thing going around, it seems people think that so long as they have an opinion, that suddenly every single time, place, and way they can express it is somehow perfectly reasonable. Gone are the days of tact, courtesy, and sensibility, I see.

I suppose I ought to drop in to the True Tears forum and start spouting "Hey everyone! Gurren Lagann is much more popular than this show!"

And I still hold to my statement that what we've seen of Clannad so far is roughly the equivalent of having seen only the first season of Higurashi, story-wise (and with less butchering). HiguKai really completed the story and impressed me, so I'm hoping for the same.

relentlessflame

2008-03-21, 15:30

Guys, just stop responding to flamebait. He's trying to get a rise out of you, and it's working all too well.

Gone are the days of tact, courtesy, and sensibility, I see.Must have missed those days. :heh:

Rembr

2008-03-21, 15:36

Not every love proposal ends with a kiss, and anyway argument-wise such a thing would do more harm than good. Nagisa pertains much more the shy, slow-going type, and it would be a while, story wise, till one would see their first kiss.And people wonder why some find her dull?

Proto

2008-03-21, 15:41

While the fact that for you being slow to change equates to being dull leaves me a little dumbfounded, I'm not questioning your right to feel that way :p

Mirrinus

2008-03-21, 15:43

And people wonder why some find her dull?

As opposed to ending it right there with the "consummation" of the relationship? I see it as continuing the opportunity for more stuff to happen.

I suppose you'd find a lot of people I know to be dull, then. Heh, and people complain about things not being "realistic" enough, lol.

Rembr

2008-03-21, 15:47

While the fact that for you being slow to change equates to being dull leaves me a little dumbfounded, I'm not questioning your right to feel that way :pAnd it makes me ponder why you think slow changing things aren't dull.

I will question why you feel that way you do. So why is it.

Rembr

2008-03-21, 15:52

As opposed to ending it right there with the "consummation" of the relationship? I see it as continuing the opportunity for more stuff to happen.

I suppose you'd find a lot of people I know to be dull, then. Heh, and people complain about things not being "realistic" enough, lol.If I wanted realistic shows, anime isn't the first thing I'd consider watching, that's for sure.

Btw, I'm not disagreeing with the turn of events. I was just asking a question based on Proto's quote. The emphasis is placed more on the second sentence.

Proto

2008-03-21, 15:54

Since this is getting off topic, I will reply to your inquiry through a PM,

Anyway, to give some on-topic content to this post, I have to say that the play itself was quite well done. The animation, the emphasis, the character design for that segment gave quite a lot of life to "the illusionary world"

Mirrinus

2008-03-21, 15:55

It's rather telling of the shortening attention span of modern audiences that some would think the speed at which a relationship develops is directly proportional to its level of interest. I suppose the best romance story, then, would be two people who hook up immediately?

That is exactly why Romeo and Juliet is my least favorite Shakespeare play (I've been mentioning Shakespeare a lot lately, haven't I?). By contrast, my favorite romance story, Far From the Madding Crowd, doesn't have the main couple kissing until the very last chapter, which takes place about 13 years or so after the two met (it's a fairly long book).

Rembr

2008-03-21, 16:00

We're actually discussing turn of events and character expression that occur in 22, how is it off-topic?

Things going slightly on the extreme is unavoidable when discussing. Otherwise the only thing you'd see in these kind of threads is "omg 10 lol.", "omg 1 **** you all.", "This was a mediocre episode so regrettably I must give a 7", etc. etc.

Rembr

2008-03-21, 16:05

Proto

2008-03-21, 16:06

Rembr, please avoid double posting, it is generally considered bad internet etiquette.

Anyway, if you are so keen in making it public...

Even within staticness you can find complexity and be marveled at something, nature-wise. I myself am quite a patient and curious person, so even in real life I'm not afraid of hanging around with the silent and slow to respond types. Because I know that normally underneath that personality something interesting usually lies. And even when that is not the case molding them to become something more interesting becomes something worth investing my time. But that is another matter altogether

Going back to Nagisa, I think that throughout the series we have seen that her personality is nothing close to uninteresting. The different facets we've seen of her during the Fuuko, Kotomi and her own arc have shown us that there is more to her than her first impression as a shy girl. However, it is also true that being shy is also part of her personality core. Hence why even in a confession she would be reluctant (or at least not taking the initiative) to kiss. However in my it would be more interesting to continue peeling at her multiple layers till she would e open enough to accept further steps, than a sudden personality change. And IMHO this is something that wouldn't be all that rare in real life. For various reasons, upbringing, moral values, personality, religion, some people are more afraid than others at opening themselves, and kissing is one of the more significant ways of doing so. However, such a fact doesn't make people dull, it just makes the path to opening them more challenging.

and arguably, more interesting.

Mirrinus

2008-03-21, 16:18

We're talking about bloody anime. What's with all the obscure comparisons?

Are you saying Clannad is an adaptation of a Shakespearean play?

I'm saying Clannad and Shakespearean plays are both works of fiction, which means concepts common to all forms of fiction can be applied to both.

And besides, I don't believe Shakespearean plays should be treated like some unapproachable paragon of writing or something. Shakespeare was an entertainer writing plays for the lowest common denominator of playgoers. If he were alive today, he'd probably be the screenwriter for 24 or Heroes or something, not making documentaries about planet earth. Likewise, plays in the 16th century were really not much more than just fun diversions from daily lives used to entertain the masses...not that much different from anime today, I guess. So no, I don't see a major problem with using Shakespearean plays as analogies to the concepts of fiction that I'm talking about.

Hey, Akio loves plays. Why can't you?

And yes, my dream is to see my favorite Shakespearean play, Much Ado About Nothing, adapted into an anime. Preferably to a reasonable degree of faithfulness, not like Romeo + Juliet. With Tomokazu Sugita providing the voice of Benedick.

Rembr

2008-03-21, 16:19

Oh, my fault. I'm just replying to things as they come, not intentionally splitting. EDIT: Like it happened just now.

As far as your preference, it goes into a conundrum:

Is it worth it for animation studios to cater to your kind and ditch the other?

I'm saying Clannad and Shakespearean plays are both works of fiction, which means concepts common to all forms of fiction can be applied to both.Like moe?

Yukinokesshou

2008-03-21, 16:23

Hello people, please calm down a bit.

Please remember that everyone has different tastes. We all watch anime for different reasons. Some people prefer adventures; some people prefer romance; steoreotypical otakus watch anime for, well, the girls (I apologise in advance if this isn't true and I'm being offensive).

Maybe I'm in a minority here, but I watch anime to be touched, to feel warm and fuzzy inside. Family love is my favourite kind of love, though I adore the cute chemistry between Okazaki and Nagisa (am I the only one who thinks Okazaki's confession is perfect without a kiss?). I'm not too interested in tsunderekkos or heroines with world-destroying powers. I respect your preferences and admit that Kyo Ani's Haruhi adaptation is superb. However, please be merciful to us family-loving, blanket-hugging types :heh:

Clannad is potentially my favourite anime ever ("Potentially", because if it stops here, it won't be my favourite). I love the Furukawa family... and family is precisely why I love Clannad so much more than Kanon :)

IRJustman

2008-03-21, 16:24

We're talking about bloody anime. What's with all the obscure comparisons?

Are you saying Clannad is an adaptation of a Shakespearean play?

I sincerely doubt he's saying that CLANNAD is an adaptation of a Shakespearean play. He's comparing buildup of a romantic relationship between those two works.

For my part, I would have chosen West Side Story (which I have performed in twice myself).

What he IS comparing is the pace at which a romantic relationship has developed. R&J's and WSS's respective romances developed very quickly. Tomoya's and Nagisa's, on the other hand, took a bit of time to mature to fruition.

And even when it finally did bear fruit, people are complaining that there was no kiss or anything of the like. It doesn't HAVE to culminate with a kiss. It culminated to the confession, and Nagisa's acceptance of same. To me, that's all that's needed. The emotions are all there. Just expressed differently.

Back to the comparison, we saw how things grew in depth and breadth. We never really get to see this in both the previous plays. Based on the indicators I was receiving in West Side Story, I figured the events span a mere two days from start to finish. I do not see any indication that it lasted any longer than that.

I haven't done the same for Romeo and Juliet, though I can see why Mirrinus doesn't like that play. Having read it myself, I don't see much in the way of development of the relationship beyond the whole trying to bootstrap a relationship in the midst of their two families' feuding.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on this matter.

--Ian.

Shinigami_Mello

2008-03-21, 16:24

I'm going to agree with the:
If it's the end for season one, then it's wonderful. But the whole story...it falls flat.
Since this is pretty much only the first half of Nagisa's story, there isnt as much of a feeling of closure. Especially about the illusionary world. I'mn glad to see I wasnt the only one praying that there would be no 'sorry's' between Tomoya and his dad. If there were...there'd go the AS.

I cant see them not doing the AS, especially after all the hinting in the opening. And it's unlike KyoAni to leave a story incomplete. Especially when its only half way through.

From the looks of the preview though, it looks like the special might be the Sunohara arc (<3) But, it looks fairly comedy centered too, and it'd be hard to do it all in one episode. Either way, I'm looking forward to it.

And wow, Clannad is far from a 'dumb dating anime'. There isnt even any dating in it unless you count the last minute of the last episode. It resembles Kanon on the outside sure, but it's main theme is completely different. And IMHO, the main female character actually seems to grow.

Ah well, what ever. I'm going to give this episode an 8 for properly finishing of that part of the game. Though it would definately be lower if they dont have an After Story.

Proto

2008-03-21, 16:26

Is it worth it for animation studios to cater to your kind and ditch the other?

It is a little early to say one way or another regarding the anime, but game-wise, it was quite a success, financially wise :p

Mirrinus

2008-03-21, 16:27

I've always believed in just accepting what you're given. Any show I like made by a studio should be considered a favor or gift, not some God-ordained right, as though the studio exists only to make stuff you like. They're the ones diligently spending time and effort to produce a piece of quality work, and you're there only to watch it once or twice and maybe buy the DVDs. But of course, in our increasingly consumer-obsessed world, people seem to think they deserve far more than they ought.

Of course, one of my many pet peeves is the Unpleaseable Fanbase (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase).

Rembr

2008-03-21, 16:34

It is a little early to say one way or another regarding the anime, but game-wise, it was quite a success, financially wise :pYeah, they might put something in next week, or even an entire season.

But the game is a different dynamic. I seem to remember an eroge spawning from some outrage concerning it.

king12354

2008-03-21, 16:37

9/10 because if I weren't doing the game right now, I would be unsatisfied with the lack of explanation of the girl and the bear and their relationship with Nagisa and Tomoya.

Rembr

2008-03-21, 16:42

Mirrinus

2008-03-21, 16:49

?

You know this is capitalism right?

People aren't going to buy what they don't like. If the product doesn't get bought, the producers are toast.

How did you watch Clannad episode 22, btw?

I'm operating under the assumption that even if I don't like something, someone out there will, and the studio will make money off of that. I'm not arrogant enough to assume that just because I don't like something, the studio won't make any money off of it; they'll find their market elsewhere. And in that sense, the interests of a single individual (i.e. me) won't dictate what the studio can or can't make, so I might as well accept whatever it is they make. And you know what? Most studios are smart enough to know what audience is going to like their product before it's made. And I'm willing to bet that professional market analysts working with the studios would know more about what will sell or what won't than each of us.

And fansubs, of course.

Yukinokesshou

2008-03-21, 17:10

Sheba

2008-03-21, 17:16

Well said. That's exactly why I'm interested in knowing how many people share my taste for anime like Clannad and Air (i.e. bittersweet stories about family, love and hope) :)

I dont mind them, they are a change from what I usually read (usually heroic fanatsy by Moorcock) or watch (crime dramas like Crossing Jordan, horror movies or war movies).

DragoonKain3

2008-03-21, 17:20

:Sigh:

As expected, I didn't feel anything in this final episode. Oh well, you can't win them all KyoAni. More expanded thoughts to come once the series evaluation thread shows up. (Do wonder when it's going up though, as the extra episodes as far as I'm concerned shouldn't play a role for the series evaluation as a whole.)

Rembr

2008-03-21, 17:22

I'm operating under the assumption that even if I don't like something, someone out there will, and the studio will make money off of that. I'm not arrogant enough to assume that just because I don't like something, the studio won't make any money off of it; they'll find their market elsewhere. And in that sense, the interests of a single individual (i.e. me) won't dictate what the studio can or can't make, so I might as well accept whatever it is they make. And you know what? Most studios are smart enough to know what audience is going to like their product before it's made. And I'm willing to bet that professional market analysts working with the studios would know more about what will sell or what won't than each of us.

And fansubs, of course.Is it wrong to accept things for what it is, yet choose to not like it, and saying why?

Also, are you still maintaining that the products are a gift/favor that people can just take as they please?And even when it finally did bear fruit, people are complaining that there was no kiss or anything of the like. It doesn't HAVE to culminate with a kiss. It culminated to the confession, and Nagisa's acceptance of same. To me, that's all that's needed. The emotions are all there. Just expressed differently.I think people's complaints are rooted on a larger scale than just the events that happened in episode 22.

Mirrinus

2008-03-21, 17:28

Is it wrong to accept things for what it is, yet choose to not like it, and saying why?

Go ahead, but do it tactfully. Be prepared to back it up and explain why. Choose a way to say it that doesn't make you sound like a troll or something. Don't assume that your logic is self-explanatory and should be common sense. Be respectful of other people's opinions if you expect them to do the same for yours.

Also, are you still maintaining that the products are a gift/favor that people can just take as they please?

I'm maintaining that the products are a gift in the sense that you didn't do anything to deserve them.

DJ_RockmanX

2008-03-21, 17:29

Is it wrong to accept things for what it is, yet choose to not like it, and saying why?

I wouldn't think so at all. But that's not what's been going on around here.

Also, are you still maintaining that the products are a gift/favor that people can just take as they please?

It's not like KyoAni slapped a "100% SATISFACTION GUARANTEED!!" label on their productions. If people don't like it, they can bring their money elsewhere.

But so long as the consumers are willing, they'll churn out the product. Individuals bitching about tidbits in it won't have much influence on them at all.

So I would see it as a favor from them for even supplying the anime in the first place.

I think people's complaints are rooted on a larger scale than just the events that happened in episode 22.

That's just a failure to accept the events as they happened due to conflicts with personal tastes.

Sheba

2008-03-21, 17:32

I think people's complaints are rooted on a larger scale than just the events that happened in episode 22.

Larger scale? As in "their girl didnt win"? No sign of development or denial to see those that have been all over the show since the first episodes?

Falkor

2008-03-21, 17:46

Finished episode 22…

How should I describe this episode? If I go with my feelings alone, this was simply beautiful, heart-warming, and powerful. It conveyed the family theme through some kind of magic in the Key verse, however not employing any kind of fantastical element. Thus far, this is perhaps the adaptation that is bounded more strongly to reality.

What kind of dreams matter the most? Those you have the hope of realizing or those you have already given up the chance of pursuing. Nagisa’s dream found the place it was looking for with the help of her rivals her friends, the charisma of her not yet boyfriend Tomoya and the unselfish support of her parents. She was not alone in this enterprise and found soon that such thing as stealing her parent’s dreams did not exist. She was the object of a great realization and she somehow took responsibility of it at the end. It was the simple wish of achieving something her parents sacrificed for her own sake that the world made sense to her. She finally realized the meaning of her dream and that of her parents and friends when she discovered that happiness and family mattered the most to her.

Tomoya finally meets his dad after leaving the house and his reaction is not that surprising. The relationship between the two hasn’t moved any closer to a reconciliation, understanding, or resolution, but it somehow reminded the audience that the ice has indeed broken (or received a crack to be more exact). He is no longer the same person from the first episode and Nagisa is partly responsible for that. Even if that suggestion didn’t mean anything other than some form a preoccupation, things have changed a little bit, though not to a great extent.

A confession is allowed to occur in the drama clubroom as the result of a long sequence of events that led to this lucky and perhaps fortunate situation. Tomoya lets her know the feelings he has been hiding for 22 episodes or so, while she, on the other hand, is no less than happy and overjoyed of listening to his words. It wasn’t really emotional; it wasn’t really romantic; it wasn’t really a normal confession to begin with. It was foreseen as the development between the two was not subtle and forced, but very obvious as though bringing the relationship to fruition was meant to occur. She was in the position of returning his feelings now that he didn’t want his insecurity to be the obstacle of moving one step closer to the realization of his love.

IRJustman

2008-03-21, 17:47

I seem to remember an eroge spawning from some outrage concerning it.

Indeed you are correct. It is called "Tomoyo After ~It's a Wonderful Life~".

--Ian.

OceanBlue

2008-03-21, 17:53

Tomoya's a tsundere.

Is what I thought at the end.
It was a very touching story. The parents [especially Akio] get +5 awesome points.

skyablaze

2008-03-21, 18:53

king12354

2008-03-21, 19:03

It's kind of depressing/sad how people think the producers are all intent, not that I'm disagreeing or anything like that. I guess real world experience teach us this...

qtipbrit

2008-03-21, 19:12

Almost as bad as the Myself Yourself ending and that's saying alot, so Tomoya asks Nagisa to go out with him, Wow!! that's very original, I'll just pretend like this episode never happend and stick with the Clannad movie ending.
The movie ending takes place after the anime ending (obviously.) the OVA may cover the story/after-story further, though, so look forward to that.

Ah, the ending was a bit rushed, but it was still quite excellent. I liked the song very much, and the epic kiss that didn't happen was epic.

Solid 9/10 in my book.

Rembr

2008-03-21, 19:12

I'm maintaining that the products are a gift in the sense that you didn't do anything to deserve them.Didn't everyone give 10something hours of their lives?

That's appallingly low price for sure, but as everyone probably paid the equal amount, I don't see how one attitude toward the product is any better than the other.Individuals bitching about tidbits in it won't have much influence on them at all.
Why do you feel that negative responses are unimportant?

Maybe after people calm down, they might change their tune on the events in 22 and the entire series. Maybe not. But isn't it important to gauge "bitching" responses, before they become no response at all?Larger scale? As in "their girl didnt win"? No sign of development or denial to see those that have been all over the show since the first episodes?Some people aren't liking this entire series, much less one girl. They may or may not have seen the subtle developments, that doesn't mean they liked it.

How about people that like Nagisa, and aren't completely satisfied how 22 ended? Perhaps they felt that all the buildup was for naught?

Tendou88

2008-03-21, 19:24

Should i watch the clannad movie after this ?

Kristen

2008-03-21, 19:26

Should i watch the clannad movie after this ?

If you do not believe that Kyoani is going to make a second season, and you do not want to play the game, yes. It'll give it a bit of a more meaningful conclusion. If you're going to play the game or want to hold out for a second season, no. The movie will spoil some things for you, so note that it's not just a preference of taste.

DJ_RockmanX

2008-03-21, 19:26

Should i watch the clannad movie after this ?

Off topic: Not if there's gonna be a second season/set of OVAs.

mandarb916

2008-03-21, 19:32

Indeed you are correct. It is called "Tomoyo After ~It's a Wonderful Life~".

--Ian.

Tomoyo After >> Clannad in terms of content quality imho...a tad short though.

Joachim

2008-03-21, 20:11

i find this thread lack of faith disturbing.

i know this episode will be some sort of critic fest, especially if this is how clannad end (no season 2 / after story)
i myself would gladly give this episode a 4 if this is really the end of clannad, its just.. well oh ok the two hook up, nagisa realize her parents dream, and what? thats it?

and the irony of some people saying CLANNAD movie is damn better than CLANNAD anime, if CLANNAD anime did end like this, sure CLANNAD movie will be damn superior because it is the real essence of CLANNAD anime which haven't (or will not) be shown yet

all i can say, reserve your total judgement until there is an announcement regarding whether there will be 2nd season or not, don't go all disappointed because you were thinking "damn thats it?" but later on when they go 2nd season on you, and show the "story" you will be "ah.. this is how it supposed to END, bravo" that is shameful..

but on the other hand if this is really the end, no bloody 2nd season or what, fire away, i will not even argue when people say this is just the copy of kanon or whatsoever, and people who do flame bait.. shame on you, grow up

DJ_RockmanX

2008-03-21, 20:14

Why do you feel that negative responses are unimportant?

Maybe after people calm down, they might change their tune on the events in 22 and the entire series. Maybe not. But isn't it important to gauge "bitching" responses, before they become no response at all?

I'm impressed that you ask this question, seeing as how you answer it in your own post:

Didn't everyone give 10something hours of their lives?

That's appallingly low price for sure, but as everyone probably paid the equal amount, I don't see how one attitude toward the product is any better than the other.

------

Some people aren't liking this entire series, much less one girl. They may or may not have seen the subtle developments, that doesn't mean they liked it.

How about people that like Nagisa, and aren't completely satisfied how 22 ended? Perhaps they felt that all the buildup was for naught?

Sucks to be them. You can't please everyone all the time.

------

And to be honest, I don't think people should come in with all these expectations and preconceived notions of how the series should turn out. It just ruins the ride completely, and their enjoyment of the show suffers for it.

Chaotic_Reign

2008-03-21, 20:30

Even if this WAS to be the end of Clannad, I don't have any major bones with the ending. I mean, I don't think that its necessary to defend Clannad by saying "Wait for the second season," because it does somewhat take away from what I thought was quite a fine episode to end Nagisa's arc. It didn't quite reach the true ending point of Nagisa's School Life arc, but I was expecting, and indeed am much happier, for the series to end with the confession in the drama club room.

There was a dramatic climax to the story - Akio's scene was spectacularly done, even better than in the game - and a decisive step to the Nagisa-Tomoya relationship. Most characters had their stories tied up nicely, and there's nothing to fault with the directing, scripting or music. There are still loose threads around, to be sure, but in the context of a non-gamer none of them are major points that would prove fatal to appreciating anime Clannad.

After Story will make it near perfect, but even now it is a "great" series. Not one for the history books yet, but still in the top tier of anime nevertheless.

Meatrose

2008-03-21, 20:41

I enjoyed this episode about as much as I enjoyed the entire show. In order to fully express my opinion I need to know whether the AS is going to be animated or not. KyoAni adapted this part of the game extremely well in my opinion. I'm a sucker for Kyou's scenario, but given the content it was impossible to go down that road in the anime. As an adaptation of the school-part of Clannad I'd say that these 22 episodes were brilliant. As a stand-alone product/story I'd say that it was well below the standards we're used to when it comes to Key-adaptations done by KyoAni. Kanon surpassed what we've seen so far, and Air is far ahead of both of them (but that's just my personal opinion ofc)

However... judging Clannad as a story by what we've seen so far is a huge mistake. If Clannad was a fancy dinner, these 22 episodes would be... like shopping for the ingredients and going through the recipe. The main dish however is the Afterstory. For KyoAni to leave Clannad after this would be kind of like shouting "hey, that's a wrap" after animating the Dream-arc of Air, thus ignoring Summer and Air. Those who've seen Air and knows about the three arcs can easily imagine the insane difference that would have made.

Anyhow, I know it might look as if I went off topic there, but there's a reason I wrote that. I mean to say that I can't, even for a second, believe that KyoAni would leave Clannad like this. The AS is what makes it a really great story, and given their love for Key-stories I refuse to believe that they would treat Clannad like this. The main plot of the current season of Clannad has been taken care of. They didn't even touch the AS, and yet they include it in the OP. I think that anyone who have read this far already figured that I expect a second season or an OVA containing the AS.

Due to this, I refuse to look at this as a finished product. If I'd done that, I would definitely rate it lower than Kanon and especially Air. However, I chose to look at this as an adaptation of the school-part of Clannad, and as long as I do that, I'm really satisfied.

germanturkey

2008-03-21, 20:47

haven't watched the ep yet, but it seems like i'll be disappointed. i was never a big nagisa fan anyways. But Akio was one of my favorites from the start.

anyways, here are my thoughts of what could potentially be 23 and 24

edited for content, moved to speculation

of course, i could wayyyyy off the mark too

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-21, 20:50

anyways, here are my thoughts of what could potentially be 23 and 24
snipped by mod

of course, i could wayyyyy off the mark too

You probably are. :heh: Considering how the After Story was lauded to be the real part of the story for Clannad by many so far, I'm thinking that 2 episodes to finish everything off will be too cheap.

Kyuusai

2008-03-21, 21:12

Watching this episode was a bit hard, because from the previous episode onward, all I could focus on is how easy it is to point out that Nagisa's parents didn't give up on their dreams, but they found a better one. It dawned on me here, though, that Tomoya's history might incline him to never think of this at all.

To me, this entire episode was simply a buildup to Akio's entrance here. Okiayu Ryoutarou's performance was moving, and the stage-performance body language was a clever and important detail.

"Moving" is a word I've used before in this series. I didn't really find Nagisa's story moving, honestly, although it had its moments like this. From what little I know about After Story, though, I would assume it's too early to judge, though.

If CLANNAD ends here, I will be VERY unhappy, but I've found its theme of family to be deeply touching.

kimchipride

2008-03-21, 21:13

Am I a cold-hearted person?

I did not really enjoy the finale episode and I believe the entire series wasn't that good. But it's Key's fault for the story I didn't like. Kyoto Animation did a great job, however, because their animation quality, character buildup, comedy moments, and music choice were excellent in many ways.

Kanon > Clannad > Air

wtfftw

2008-03-21, 21:59

episode was boring

kotomi story was way better then this. At least i felt sorry for her and also fuko story and fuko didnt appear so it went all down the drain, no great sunoharo jokes.

oh my parents stopped/switched jobs ---> doomsday scenario i must go emo and kill myself *shrugs* >.>.

Proto

2008-03-21, 22:17

Codine

2008-03-21, 22:48

ehh kinda bad for a "final" episode. Idk i was just expecting too much from this ever since they announced clannad after kanon 2006. yes i know they're different kinds of animes but still. kanon just had a bigger impact on me, im not saying clannad was bad its just different. It still feels that the last episode is lacking...maybe the extra episodes will throw in some more laughs.

Caeruleus

2008-03-21, 22:48

I've got to say, I haven't seen an anime which so satisfying an ending in a long time. An amazing end to an amazing series (or first season).

todkapuz

2008-03-21, 23:00

sono... nande iu ka? .... all things aside it didn't feel like a final episode to me.. I dont know... although it makes perfect since when you compare it to the other two Key peices they've done so far...

Air

I didn't know anything of Key when I first watched Air... so the anime series was the first thought of it ... but it left me completely helpless after it's short 12 episodes ...

Misuzu faking feeling good to make Haruko happy, although you dont quite know it at the time...
"I want you to go on ahead a little way... your my goal, im going to walk all the way to you and Sora."
Then, it happens... Misuzu breaks and you realize she is at the end... "is it alright? I've done my best, haven't i? is it okay to cross the finish line already? No mom, the goal I've been trying to reach all of this time... I can finally rest now" ... *enter the lovliest version of Aozora* .... Haruko's reflections and pep talk to Sora ... Sora takes flight ... Sora's mothers wisdom ... flash back to the next step ... "for us it's just the beginning"

Man I've broken down again just going to review the last episode to make sure I wasn't crazy... and thats the I dont know HOW many times I've watched it... it still kills me.. every time...

So it was very fitting for the Mother-daughter theme ... comes together in the end quite well.

Kanon

When I learned of Kanon 2006, I watched Toei's Kanon ...

The pain we see Nayuki in ... a cute little party she puts together ... Nayuki starts to avoid Yuichi... she leaves the message on the alarm clock ... Nayuki sees the name plate.. she rushes to tell him... her stold kiss giving up on him ... beautiful Last Regrets ("arigatou.....", opening to kanon 2006) ... Ayu recalls the seasons .. but her time has stopped .. there is no season at all... Yuichi rescues her from it.. and of course the erally funny "you absolutely wont laugh" ... I guess it erally did end with a confession...

So yes that was my basis walking into Kanon 2006 ...

Of course the pain started in the 23rd episode .. "I haven't changed at all. " "I couldn't do anything..." and Makoto's touching response.. Yuichi goes to the tree ... another beautiful Last Regrets ... mysterious reflections and her appearence ... "at our school, you can come and go whenevre you want" .. "Then it's time for my final wish... please forget about me, pretend I enver existed... from the start." "i can't possibly forget about you." ... "is my body still warm?" "of course it is" ... "I'm dreaming..." ... the apology to Nayuki ... and the end of Ayu's dream.

Thankfully that didnt hit me near as hard as Air just did ... but still hurts

Both do a pretty good job about the relationship / promises themes

Clannad

I tell no lies.. I started watching Clannad with no knowledge ... but after falling for Kotomi-chan I did a lot of reading, and infact helped (kinda) in the translation fo the after story... so I do know how powerful this story can be... anyhow..

Nagisa explains how shes such a bad child .... she sees just how dedicated her father was at acting, and she even further concludes ... her memories with her parents ...

Then Ossan becomes the best dad ever... "Realize your dream, Nagisa!" "Are you stupid?!?!" "That's what family is" "Nagisa, Ganbatte!!!"

So we have the realization of the family (both blood and friends) realized ...

it was very moving and great.. and true to form ... kedo...

instead of providng releif from the stress, or showign the happiness in the sadness.... they delve into the other world... which is good .... and maybe it is enough? I dont know... but it jsut brings more questions than answers to some degree...

But then they don't resolve the father problem at all with Tomoya... infact bringing him back in at this point reminds you that Tomoya still is having serious issues with him...

But even though it doesnt feel closed.. it was pretty good.... and Kyoani has done an amazing job telling the story.. so far... but I just can't give it a 10.. :-/

Kaioshin Sama

2008-03-21, 23:04

I wonder if maybe the hype had something to do with some of the negative reactions this series is getting now. That's why I usually go into things with a neutral attitude.

Proto

2008-03-21, 23:25

mandarb916

2008-03-21, 23:26

I wonder if maybe the hype had something to do with some of the negative reactions this series is getting now. That's why I usually go into things with a neutral attitude.

It's quite possible this is the case. Kyoto had some really big shoes to fill because Clannad, the game, was VERY well done...second best Key production imho (sorry, TomoAfter takes the #1 spot for me by a long shot). Reviews on amazon.co.jp, blog entries, etc rank Clannad very high.

That said, you have people like myself who've played through the entire game critiquing (sp?) the game with certain expectations. You have people who've heard from a friend (of a friend of a friend's uncle's daughter's boyfriend...you get the idea) that Clannad will be a stellar production with certain expectations. And you also have people who know nothing about the series. Considering the nature of the series, it's going to generate a lot more chatter than say something like...H2O or what not. More chatter, the more (in absolute values) negative posts you'll ultimate see...also the concept of a vocal minority lol.

Codine

2008-03-21, 23:43

Well yea after looking back on Clannad theres a lot of bad things they did with the story, the biggest problem was give the most pointless character the most screentime. that damn starfish girl had the longest arc and personally i think her story and character were very lame. If they really went into Ryou and Kyou's arc there would have been some drama which this anime did not have much of. This was my favorite anime this winter until i started watching spice and wolf. I guess i'm still waiting for the next kanon 2006. Clannad is Clannad and it has its own unique formula even though I may not like how they did things its still a very good anime.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-22, 00:15

I'm wondering about this 'It sucks' Syndrome. I get it that lots of comments are based off the point that "It sucks, because I'm disappointed it didn't end like it should/the male protagonist didn't end up with the girl I wanted him to" or just plain "It sucks. Period."

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but it is very possible that the hype can do something to influence how potential viewers can come to form opinions on the series itself. It's a double-edged sword that can bring in more viewers and also damage the opinions of the viewers if it doesn't deliver, be it in terms of quality and personal references.

I've got a few friends on other forums who, having never heard of Clannad at all (but have surprisingly watched and played Air or Kanon) diving straight into it because "Hey, it's KyoAni, it's Key." Expectations tend to get a little too high for some people, with some expecting KyoAni to do a "marvellous" job in their eyes, or at least give them what they want to see (This was probably mentioned earlier about shows not being able to cater to everyone's preferences). Considering how Clannad is themed after 'Family' while Air and Kanon are both more drama-filled in a sense, I guess comparisons and expectations of the same formula being used are inevitable.

Well yea after looking back on Clannad theres a lot of bad things they did with the story, the biggest problem was give the most pointless character the most screentime. that damn starfish girl had the longest arc and personally i think her story and character were very lame. If they really went into Ryou and Kyou's arc there would have been some drama which this anime did not have much of.

I don't know much about how Fuuko's arc in the game turned out, but she wasn't exactly pointless. Just wondering if you've played the game, and can consider the Fujibayashis' stories to be more emotional and dramatic than Fuuko's or anyone else's, for that matter. More importantly is whether it fits into the 'family' theme for Clannad. Anyway, you can't please everyone, and that's why I think they placed more focus on Nagisa and Tomoya than other characters (I was a little disappointed that there couldn't be more backstory on Kyou or Tomoyo, but it passed).

Codine

2008-03-22, 00:27

I haven't personally played but i've read about it and what happens. I thought their arc was pretty depressing. Also I wanted to see those characters more in the show. They kind of went halfway with their arc and just ended it very quickly. Also I really haven't seen any1 saying that Clannad "sucks". Only real complaints I've seen from people are with the arcs and how the second half of the show sort of feels rushed.

kyoulover

2008-03-22, 00:45

Well....i already saw it since yesterday..... :heh:

but well oh well......i think i missed someone in this series.....

i don't see hiiragi kappei appear even once :heh:

well....anyway.....i really love the scene when akio jump in and save the day....i like how he said about their dream and nagisa dream :)

mikesince83

2008-03-22, 00:59

I think most of the discontent here is stemming from the fact that this season of CLANNAD has not followed the traditional formula of a romance/drama series. As I (and others) have previously mentioned, it's unusual to have a less dramatic arc like Nagisa's filling the closing act. Besides that, viewers have been waiting 21 episodes for Tomoya to step up to the plate with Nagisa, while other characters they like (Tomoyo, Kyou, Ryou) get systematically rejected. The confession is a pivotal moment, (I loved it) but for some it simply isn't enough.

Silly analogy: It would be similar to someone bringing out an ice cream sundae you ordered after waiting a couple hours. They set it down in front of you and give you a small taste, only to quickly take the sundae back into the kitchen out of sight.

Maybe this would be more acceptable if other plot points were further developed, yet clearly important issues like Tomoya's relationship with his father remain almost untouched. Meanwhile the 'mystical world', important enough to share the opening with the CLANNAD girls, is reduced to a metaphor that Nagisa wraps up in a short summary (17:36) ending with: "They sang a song". There may be more to the story, but considering how little information we received about the 'mystical world' before 22, her little explanation is akin to being force fed.

Again, this would all be more or less irrelevant if they announce a second season, but without that foresight, and given the current status of the series, It's natural for people to display discontent on the forums.

KJlost

2008-03-22, 01:00

The ending brought a VERY broad smile to my face as I was watching it RAW, which is more than I can say for many other series (...). The series gets a very good from me at the very least. I'm not getting too too crazy about it or difficult, but I think considering the sheer volume of the story, the tying up was pretty good.

MeoTwister5

2008-03-22, 03:18

If you're going to disagree and bash the anime, go ahead and do it, but for the love of God make a better justification than "it's my opinion."

It's like saying opining that Dubya is an alien from outer space, which is an opinion in and of itself, but not a valid one at that, and yet saying it is true because "it's my opinion." There is no essentially "right" opinion, but there are some completely "wrong" opinion when the facts behind such an opinion are unsubstantiated or completely invalid.

If you're going to bash the series, go ahead it's your right, but at least attempt justify why you think so with a valid argument. People here who like the anime (like me) have at least justified our opinions with valid points, and only few of the naysayers have validated theirs.

The "it's my opinion" statements doesn't justify your opinion, it just shows you don't have the knowledge or information to even make a valid opinion.

----------------

On a side, I think one of the reasons why many of us who liked the ending of this season is because we've played, or at least read the story of, the After Story. As such, we base some of our opinions around it and are not making opinions in a vacuum. We can relate the ending to the existence of an After Story we are familiar with and thus make a presumptive linking of this ending with the knowledge that it doesn't end there.

Granted for me as an absolute ending it's too much of an open ended one, but the knowledge that there is SUPPOSED to be more and the possibility that Kyoani will animate it makes me like the ending more than I should.

Honestly someone should tell the entire damn world that the story doesn't end here yet, so I'd have to read less misinformed opinions on a story that has yet to be concluded on this medium of animation.

arkxkra

2008-03-22, 03:34

nice episode.

best part of this episode was Akio touching shout out(as a parent and family) to nagisa, want her to continue their dream, beautiful.

and finally Tomoya confess, although abit simply, but Nagisa touching until cry, nice scene :).

This is the end of Nagisa Arc, so next episode is last episode of clannad? I hope they will continue another season on After Story, please please....

mandarb916

2008-03-22, 03:49

I don't know much about how Fuuko's arc in the game turned out, but she wasn't exactly pointless. Just wondering if you've played the game, and can consider the Fujibayashis' stories to be more emotional and dramatic than Fuuko's or anyone else's, for that matter. More importantly is whether it fits into the 'family' theme for Clannad.

Ryou/Kyou/Kappei don't fit into the family theme in the same way Nagisa's route does. However, Ryou/Kyou are family and in the game, it really is a sibling conflict...not sure sibling conflict is different from family conflict (child/parent). Tomoya reminded me of Makoto from School Days towards the end of their story and honestly it was really annoying.

The storyline itself wasn't as "deep" per se as Kotomi or Fuuko, but it felt more like a real scenario instead of the other 2 arcs which had fantasy aspects involved so it was much more enjoyable from a personal standpoint.

Divini

2008-03-22, 04:40

Akio's speech left me speechless, and teary-eyed. Man, that was powerful.

I thought nothing would top the end of Fuuko's arc in terms of emotional impact, but wow... this matches it if not exceeds it.

Seeing the school arc drawing to its conclusion, my questions about the illusionary world are still up in the air. In the end, Tomoya seemed to really wanted to know about what happened to the girl and the robot (only to be reminded of Nagisa singing 'Dango Daikazoku'.... I so wanted to see that! :() Also when he heard about the story for the first time, he mentioned something about how he knows this story from somewhere. Hmmm.....

The episode did have a sense of closure, but it didn't feel like an 'absolute' closure of the whole story (like Kanon for example). If they do stop here, I will definitely feel terribly disappointed. Of course, I have faith that KyoAni will do the After Story, in some way. From everything I hear from the people that played the game, there's no way the story of CLANNAD can be properly told and concluded without it.

Finally, nice going Tomoya! Have a little more confidence man, did you really think Nagisa wouldn't love you the same way? :)

----

Here's my final report for the school arc. I plan on doing to do the 2 bonus episodes, but I look forward to continue this even more in the future. Here's hoping for the animation of the After Story!

Main / Supporting / Minor
Nagisa
Tomoya
Akio
Illusionary World
Yukine
Sunohara
Kyou
Ryou
Kotomi
Sanae
Naoyuki
Botan
Mei
Nishina
Sugisaka
Misae
Tomoyo
Kouko
Yuusuke
Koumura
Mitsui16:17
12:09
3:06
2:02
1:58
1:56
1:43
1:31
1:29
1:04
0:42
0:13
0:11
0:09
0:09
0:08
0:07
0:05
0:05
0:01
0:01

* Tomoya at long last was finally dethroned :D

[TH]Main Char / Supporting / Minor
Okazaki Tomoya
Furukawa Nagisa
Sunohara Youhei
Ichinose Kotomi
Fujibayashi Kyou
Ibuki Fuuko
Fujibayashi Ryou
Sakagami Tomoyo
Furukawa Akio
Furukawa Sanae
Ibuki Kouko
Illusionary World
Miyazawa Yukine
Kotomi's Guardian
Sunohara Mei
Nishina Rie
Botan
Sugisaka
Yoshino Yuuske
Sagara Misae
Koumura Toshio
Okazaki Naoyuki
Ichinose Koutarou
Ichinose Mizue
Mitsui
Sakagami Takafumi
Kanako
6:51:28
4:12:23
1:37:28
1:35:28
1:33:31
1:27:35
1:21:14
46:23
32:49
29:55
16:49
11:15
10:28
9:39
9:33
7:31
6:35
6:12
5:03
4:07
3:56
3:52
3:49
3:47
2:36
1:42
0:18

* Tomoya and Nagisa are the lead characters by a far, far, amount... not like anyone didn't expect it or anything :p
* Kotomi nabbed the #2 girl spot. (Though she really was just a supporting character after her arc) :x
* While the other main girls had a fairly even amount of screentime, poor Tomoyo doesn't even have a full hour. :( The Furukawa couple might even match her eventually :heh:
* I wish they had time to develop Misae, Yukine, and Mei more...

panzerfan

2008-03-22, 05:25

未確認情報･･･信じるか信じないかはアナタ次第･･･らしい。

ここ２週間以内に２期決定の公式発表
kanon (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/kanon)ブルーレイディスク (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%a5%d6%a5%eb%a1%bc%a5%ec%a5%a4%a5%c7%a5%a3%a5%b9%a 5%af)版は２００９年初頭発売予定。らき☆すた (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%a4%e9%a4%ad%a1%f9%a4%b9%a4%bf)も。CLANNAD (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/CLANNAD)ブルーレイディスク (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%a5%d6%a5%eb%a1%bc%a5%ec%a5%a4%a5%c7%a5%a3%a5%b9%a 5%af)版は未定。発売予定あり。
二期のタイトルは「CLANNAD (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/CLANNAD)～afterstory～」放送開始時期は６月。局によってズレあり。
一期は演劇部 (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%b1%e9%b7%e0%c9%f4)の舞台 (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%c9%f1%c2%e6)発表が終わり、朋也が渚に告白する所で終了。EDテーマ (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/ED%a5%c6%a1%bc%a5%de)は影二つ。「つづく」の文字が変化する。
２期特報を最終回で流すか番外編で流すのか検討中。おそらく最終回で流れる。
アニメ (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%a5%a2%a5%cb%a5%e1)劇中に使われた原曲のアレンジ (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%a5%a2%a5%ec%a5%f3%a5%b8)アルバム (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%a5%a2%a5%eb%a5%d0%a5%e0)が１期放送終了後に発売予定。
２期は１クール (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%a5%af%a1%bc%a5%eb)で終了。２期が２クール (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%a5%af%a1%bc%a5%eb)という予定はない。
TBS (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/TBS)と京都アニメーション (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%b5%fe%c5%d4%a5%a2%a5%cb%a5%e1%a1%bc%a5%b7%a5%e7%a 5%f3)は放送形態について色々と揉めていた。２期の情報規制を行っているのも全てTBS (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/TBS)の判断とのこと。

-Clannad Afterstory will be announced in 2 weeks and it will air in June.
-Bluray version of Kanon is coming Q1 2009. Clannad is being considered.

With this, Moon Phase's initial prediction on Clannad being sawed into two and Haruhi in the middle seems to be correct...

and what that means is that it is likely that Haruhi will air in April- June.

MeoTwister5

2008-03-22, 05:46

-Clannad Afterstory will be announced in 2 weeks and it will air in June.
-Bluray version of Kanon is coming Q1 2009. Clannad is being considered.

With this, Moon Phase's initial prediction on Clannad being sawed into two and Haruhi in the middle seems to be correct...

and what that means is that it is likely that Haruhi will air in April- June.

Is the information regarding After Story animation from a valid source?

If so, it gives me a valid reason to stay alive until June.:D

xi11

2008-03-22, 05:53

Hmm... just as a little comment in TWH subs. When Nagisa comments

"You're also the same, Okazaki-san. In order to achieve your own dream, you're using up everyone else's time"

wasn't it more like

"I'm also being ungrateful to you, Okazaki-san. In order to achieve my own dream, I'm using everyone else's time"

.

Can I get confirmation of that? Cause I was wondering about that line very much and how it not fitted Nagisa's character. Thanks for bringing it up proto, like your posts anyway.

I dont understanding why (most) people keep hating about the episode. I admit that for an absolute ending this could have been done more emotional and stuff, but for me it was definitely the best episode since i dont know, the tennis match perhaps.
Look at this 22 episodes of Clannad. I ve never in my whole life watched an anime that touched me so much and sucked me into the created world so heavily. Watching Clannad I could forget about all the shit that was going on in my life. Hell, I rewatched the episodes about the next or evenings because I liked it so much. Maybe one expected too much, but looking back on this series I am just glad having been able to watch and enjoy it so much.

One can be grateful from time to time.

I am just looking forward to playing the game now, and hopes for a second season of course are high.

Did anyone of you really expect a Hollywood-Tomoya X Nagisa-everything-is-resolved-ending?

I never did anyway.

MeoTwister5

2008-03-22, 05:58

Can I get confirmation of that? Cause I was wondering about that line very much and how it not fitted Nagisa's character. Thanks for bringing it up proto, like your posts anyway.

I dont understanding why (most) people keep hating about the episode. I admit that for an absolute ending this could have been done more emotional and stuff, but for me it was definitely the best episode since i dont know, the tennis match perhaps.
Look at this 22 episodes of Clannad. I ve never in my whole life watched an anime that touched me so much and sucked me into the created world so heavily. Watching Clannad I could forget about all the shit that was going on in my life. Hell, I rewatched the episodes about the next or evenings because I liked it so much. Maybe one expected too much, but looking back on this series I am just glad having been able to watch and enjoy it so much.

One can be grateful from time to time.

I am just looking forward to playing the game now, and hopes for a second season of course are high.

Did anyone of you really expect a Hollywood-Tomoya X Nagisa-everything-is-resolved-ending?

I never did anyway.

Because School Arc isn't supposed to give us that. The ending we have now is supposed to be a transitional ending for the rest of the story, but some people either don't get that or don't know that After Story exists.

I can't blame them though. Few English speaking people knew of the After Story until Baka-Tsuki decided to translate, and until some of us revealed that there is more to Clannad than high school.:heh:

wtfftw

2008-03-22, 06:27

Well, Fuuko's and Kotomi's stories are supposed to concentrate most of the drama in CLANNAD school arc. If you feel the drama was lacking in Nagisa's story, then it did its job well because drama is one thing you shouldn't been feeling (at least not primarily) when watching what was shown of Nagisa's story. The message they are trying to convey is different, yet the same.ok but my point is her storyline doenst really get to me meaning from what i have seen the whole season the other stories were more intesting fun and good to watch as this as they had more episode.

Basically i was hoping that there would be at least some other guy in the show which these girls kotomi kyou tomoyo could switched to if they couldnt get tomoya. Because the Ep were kyou started crying cuz she was all exposed for me thats a lose end of a issue that should be addressed. I mean what do they all feel for tomoya now or what they gonna do from now on. I mean is tomoyo and sunohara gonna be closer i mean the tomoyo beating sunohara up was for me one of the fun things and looks interesting as a couple cuz she could keep him in line. Is Kyou over tomoya etc etc etc?

I see subtle developments IRL hell my own love is subtle which is why if i see something different in a show it means more for me cuz thats what would get to me more.

I just know that nagisa needs a reality check cuz she goes emotional and thinks too deep over stuff like for example that her parents had to take different jobs. Thats a responsibility as a parent to care for your child.

Anyways my point is i hope at least they will somehow give some after story for the other characters cuz the ending now is nice i geuss cuz i dont care for it but i wanna see what happens for the other characters.

But I get your point i just feel it could be better^^

Nexis

2008-03-22, 06:32

-Clannad Afterstory will be announced in 2 weeks and it will air in June.

Hope its reliable, finally something to look forward too!

Rembr

2008-03-22, 08:05

I'm impressed that you ask this question, seeing as how you answer it in your own post:Of course I answered it, because those are my opinion. I'm asking for yours, more thoroughly. Since you previously stated something opposite.

DJ_RockmanX

2008-03-22, 10:51

Of course I answered it, because those are my opinion. I'm asking for yours, more thoroughly. Since you previously stated something opposite.

Tell me where I stated something opposite. Although I'm really not interested in pursuing this useless debate any further.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-22, 10:59

Basically i was hoping that there would be at least some other guy in the show which these girls kotomi kyou tomoyo could switched to if they couldnt get tomoya. Because the Ep were kyou started crying cuz she was all exposed for me thats a lose end of a issue that should be addressed. I mean what do they all feel for tomoya now or what they gonna do from now on. I mean is tomoyo and sunohara gonna be closer i mean the tomoyo beating sunohara up was for me one of the fun things and looks interesting as a couple cuz she could keep him in line. Is Kyou over tomoya etc etc etc?

You're talking typical school/slice-of-life romance happening here. If you're truly looking for that, Ef~ might actually suit you better, even if just a little. Clannad is still a family-themed show, IMO, so as much as you (or I) might want to see the possibilities...Go write yourself some fanfictions, maybe. ;)

I just know that nagisa needs a reality check cuz she goes emotional and thinks too deep over stuff like for example that her parents had to take different jobs. Thats a responsibility as a parent to care for your child.

I suppose a child with a negative mindset lacking in self-confidence will always know what her parents think? :eyespin:

pac2is

2008-03-22, 11:01

Uso!! Clannad is going to end :( Damn i liked this series, i hope there will be a 2nd season of that. Or another nice anime from Key animations...

velocity7

2008-03-22, 11:05

Could you get a link on that speculation regarding the second season?

Not surprised it'll be that way, however. I'm just curious if they'll do a proper coverage of Kyou or Tomoyo's routes then. :heh:

That said, looking forward to Haruhi followed by CLANNAD.

(P.S. I don't know if I can fansub Haruhi, I'd need a translator for that orz)

rave_master16

2008-03-22, 11:14

This is not THE End... It is only the end of Season one... I know Kyo ani will animate the AS.... Like every gamer said
After story is the heart and soul of Clannad,,,
for this episode... I think its only average for me... yup the climax might be the Akio shout to Nagisa...I'm disappointed that they didn't complete the whole play... Where is the Singing Nagisa...
confession as the ending... I haven't seen it in a long time... Hmmm..
But Im really surprised that some voted for Painful and Bad for this episode...
Are you saying this episode is for the craps?
I think it would be better to not judge the whole series now because the REAL story just started in episode 20 in my opinion...

Deathscyther

2008-03-22, 11:19

It was a great episode to end the season with. I just watched it again, and it made me feel all warm inside at the end.

Akio's entrance was really good. One of the best scenes in the series (and maybe in any anime I've ever seen). And I think that they handled it even better than in the game. The confession might have been sudden and rushed, but it was completely in character. I can't see Tomoya do it any other way and Nagisa's reaction was in character as well. They aren't the types to kiss right away.

They only kissed a long time after the confession in the game as well

Remember...
Tomoya: Used to think that he was a deliquent and that he doesn't need/deserve a gf. (And he's kind of insecure about the love area as well)
Nagisa: Is always insecure and would never initiate the first kiss or confession, although she knows that she loves him. So luckily Tomoya did what he did:p

And I agree with the rest of you. The ending isn't as good as the ending to other good anime (Kanon and Air). I'd give the episode a 6 or a 7 if this would be the end to the series, while I gave it a 9 or 10 for the end of the season. But that's because the story is still imcomplete. I mean, the illusionary world scenes still don't make much sense, and there are still very many loose ends.

Some people don't know about the game, so for them this ending might be really disappointing (especially since the nagisa arc wasn't as emotional as Kotomi's and Fuko's) Nagisa's arc was very good in another way though and personally I find it the best school arc. The Nagisa arc portrayed the family theme best. So in a way I like that they saved this arc for last.

That's why I think that they should announce a second season really fast. And if they don't do a second season....then they're really stupid in my opinion. The story will be imcomplete and I'm sure the second season will be just as popular as the first one, maybe even more.

Looks like Next episode will be about the sunohara siblings. It won't have anything to do with the main story, but I can't wait anyways. Maybe something will happen with Tomoya and Mei which will cause a misunderstanding or something:p

velocity7

2008-03-22, 11:23

Actually, the next episode looks like original material. :p

Shinigami_Mello

2008-03-22, 12:22

I hope that blurb from Moonphase is true.
I actually yelled in happiness from that! But really, they cant leave it out. With all those hints. Here's something to keep me going till June!

MeoTwister5

2008-03-22, 12:37

OT:

Thanks for whoever deleted my post in time. Contained some stuff I shouldn't have posted to begin with lol.:heh:

Kristen

2008-03-22, 12:41

I hope that Moonphase one is true too... But a June start seems a little strange... Don't most animes start in July?

Maybe a late June start for a 14 episode season?

Divini

2008-03-22, 12:47

-Clannad Afterstory will be announced in 2 weeks and it will air in June.
-Bluray version of Kanon is coming Q1 2009. Clannad is being considered.

With this, Moon Phase's initial prediction on Clannad being sawed into two and Haruhi in the middle seems to be correct...

and what that means is that it is likely that Haruhi will air in April- June.

If this is true... You sir, have just made my day :D

orion

2008-03-22, 13:08

No onscreen kiss. KyoAni you're so cruel. :sad: http://planetsmilies.net/kaos-not-tagged-smiley-4826.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

Nevertheless, I still gave it a "10".

sobaro

2008-03-22, 13:20

But a June start seems a little strange... Don't most animes start in July?

I agree with chrissie
it is an usually time and If you calculat it it looks like the sacond season has ahigh possability to end with 13-14 eps
ofcorse it couid be 24- 26 but in my mind i think it will be 14
we will wate and see

Espiecakes

2008-03-22, 13:21

Could you get a link on that speculation regarding the second season?Are you talking about this? http://d.hatena.ne.jp/tokuseitaiyaki/20080314/1205497120

Yukinokesshou

2008-03-22, 13:25

Espiecakes

2008-03-22, 13:30

If the season 2 rumour came from the same source that gave us the 22+1+1 episodes rumour, then I'll assign it a probability of 75%. If it came from 2ch or one random fanboy's blog, I'll assign it a probability of 25%.

[Edit] Ah, finally a link. Unfortunately, it looks like a random fanboy's blog that links to 2ch T_TIf that's where the notion of After Story seeing the light originated from then we can expect the actual chances to be reduced significantly.

Codine

2008-03-22, 13:34

i wonder how they're going to do the second season then...the story seems pretty much finished unless they make new arcs.

DJ_RockmanX

2008-03-22, 13:35

i wonder how they're going to do the second season then...the story seems pretty much finished unless they make new arcs.

There's still plenty left to go with the After Story. Mods, I suggest a new thread on this.

Yukinokesshou

2008-03-22, 13:37

If that's where the notion of After Story seeing the light originated from then we can expect the actual chances to be reduced significantly.

Yeah, besides, the chap writes: 未確認情報･･･信じるか信じないかはアナタ次第･･･らしい。

... which, based on my logic as a Chinese speaker, basically means
"Unconfirmed information... whether you believe it or not is up to you" or something like that.

SkoolRumble4Ya

2008-03-22, 13:50

Damn this episode is so good. I give it a 10 because of everything that happen in the last episode. When Akio came out of nowhere with dat speech, I can feel his emotion it was dat powerful. I can't believe somebody gave it a one, I know everybody entitled to their own opinion but there is no way in hell this episode deserve dat. I don't get why alot of people is bitchin about the episode. It ended the right way a season was supposed to end. I'm hoping there will be a second season but if it doesn't have one i'll still be satisfied.

KaneDragon

2008-03-22, 13:53

This was a good episode. Akio saves the day, everyone goes home happy. Even if there's no second season, this episode still provided sufficient closure (Nagisa's issue with her parents, the confession, the other romantic leads already having been dealt with, etc...). If it leaves other things open, like Tomoya's father and the whole Mysterious World, fine. I can take that degree of open-endedness. It's still better than plenty of other anime that don't have more story material left to tell.

I don't know what's left to tell, but I can wait for the game translation.

Speaking of which, Tomoya's "Don't drink so much" line to his father was a nice touch, as a small gesture of conciliation that allows for the possibility of better relations in the future.

ApostleOfGod

2008-03-22, 16:43

Akio owns.

Good ending, a lot of time spent just to develop up to this. Illusionary world seemed to be something so much smaller than all the attention that it received. The end~

Edit: Akio speaks truth. I'm keeping this because his part was so good.

Also, props to the cast and staff, it might have provided a challenge trying to fit the voice to making it sound as real as it did in the theatre scene, with all the echo and different volumes of voices in different camera shots. Splendidly done.

"Thats why... Since that day... Always baking bread...!"
Damn. This line made the show for me.

Kisuke06

2008-03-22, 16:49

Great episode, needless to say that the best part was when Akio-san appeared. :p

The end of the episode was also very good.

I just wanted to see more of Tomoya and his father.

Well, I'll be waiting the "extra", but I don't really think a new season is going to happen.

KaneDragon

2008-03-22, 16:58

I don't believe this has been mentioned yet, and probably for good reason. :p
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3602/snapshot20080322143414zz5.jpg

I Know What You Did Last Summer, and It Was Fine, Too :uhoh:

therationalpi

2008-03-22, 17:00

Really, I enjoyed this episode greatly. It held strong with the concept of family that they have been building for all this time. To me, the best part is that it was Nagisa's parents, not Tomoya, who helped her out of her slump the most. Sure, Tomoya did his part, and he made it clear that Nagisa's friends cared for her too, but Akio and Sanae were the pair that really brought Nagisa back from her depression.

As for Tomoya's dad, I'm glad that we only saw the start of resolution and not full resolution. It would have felt really contrived if we made the sudden jump from "I can't even look at my father" to "Everything is fine!" Thus, all we see is that things are starting to move in the right direction. Also, the fact that Nagisa set up the meeting makes her character feel a lot more powerful. Up until that point, we only see Nagisa being carried by her friends. However, when Nagisa takes the initiative to get Tomoya's father to come to the play, we see that she is capable of carrying others, too.

This is a good ending for the show, in my opinion. The feeling at the end is that life keeps moving on, and all we saw was the start of these characters growing together. To me, this is the best way for a comedy (in the greek sense) to end, with the characters having grown and moving on together.

Kisuke06

2008-03-22, 18:13

If you asked me Clannad was a "go buy the game" kind of show.

Just compare it with Kanon. Kanon was a complete show, they showed all the major points of the story.

Clannad left the Twins, Tomoyo and Tomoya's father. I mean, I didn't play the game, but I'm sure those characters have way more story than what was showed.

ZODDGUTS

2008-03-22, 18:13

Good ending which is what kept me from rating the entire series a C+ to a B-. Decent series overall it just didn't live up to my expectations guess it's my fault for that.

Malzar

2008-03-22, 18:17

Yukinokesshou

2008-03-22, 19:02

It was a nice episode but I rly hope there comes a second season the starfish girl is still not awakened she didn't even appeared in this last episode and the ichinose mysterie isn't solved yet so I think there is enough to make a second season ^^

Having read tonnes of game spoilers and watched the movie, it's hard to keep myself from giggling at "there is enough to make a second season", you know :heh:

Deathscyther

2008-03-22, 19:12

Having read tonnes of game spoilers and watched the movie, it's hard to keep myself from giggling at "there is enough to make a second season", you know :heh:

There is more than enough material. The big question is...will Kyoani make another season? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

I think (and hope) that they will.

Mez

2008-03-22, 19:21

it's not a strong "ending" because we're barely half way through nagisas' story, don't see the point of people comparing it to shows which have had their full story concluded.

Kisuke06

2008-03-22, 19:41

it's not a strong "ending" because we're barely half way through nagisas' story, don't see the point of people comparing it to shows which have had their full story concluded.

The anime is over, and it didn't cover all the major points of the story. But that is no excuse. It's not like all shows that are based off a visual novel have all their story told.

Kaisos Erranon

2008-03-22, 20:10

Just noticed something: If you pause at 09:42 you can see Arakawa the butler from Haruhi sitting on the far left.

Also, next episode looks... interesting. Kyoto seems to be having fun screwing around with the dialogue for the previews.

But yeah, the actual episode was well done. Akio's speech was GAR and awesome, and the ending was satisfying as well. (Haha, Tomoya's a tsundere.)

I liked some of the little details, too, like how they showed part of the very first scene during Tomoya's confession.

10/10

mandarb916

2008-03-22, 20:26

Clannad left the Twins, Tomoyo and Tomoya's father. I mean, I didn't play the game, but I'm sure those characters have way more story than what was showed.

The twins story line isn't that deep...touching and more reality bound but I don't think you're missing much.

You're probably right about the Tomoyo part as there is a game specifically (non-cannonical?) about her and Tomoya that occurs after the school life segment. Imho, it's a much more powerful and tear-jerking storyline than any of the Clannad stories.

Kanon's overall presentation was much better, all things considered, though I did feel Clannad had more potential...on the flipside, though, it's nice to be able to go back to the full voice version of the game now, instead of just reading text :P

Mez

2008-03-22, 20:47

The anime is over, and it didn't cover all the major points of the story. But that is no excuse. It's not like all shows that are based off a visual novel have all their story told.

it did a good adaption to what has been covered in the VN at that point, the major points aren't covered because we're not up to them yet.

Proto

2008-03-23, 00:55

The anime is over, and it didn't cover all the major points of the story. But that is no excuse. It's not like all shows that are based off a visual novel have all their story told.

Well, up to this point whether it is over or just in stasis is up in the air, so it's kinda weak to argue one way or the other. Like arguing Zero no Tsukaima is weak for leaving open ends at the end of each season.

kimchipride

2008-03-23, 01:04

Clannad's OVER!

I WANT HARUHI S2 NOW PLZ

RandomFlameStrike

2008-03-23, 01:24

Oh god no, this anime was mediocre in comparison to Kyoto Animation's high standard - They better not make another dumb dating anime when everybody is waiting for Haruhi Season 2, even an extension to Clannad TV would be an outrage.

Hey hey that's a pretty big statement to be passing off as a fact. I personally don't see what all the buzz for Haruhi 2 is about. The Haruhi 2 anime was awesome but I'd be much more interested in seeing the Clannad After Story animated. Tch and calling Clannad a dumb dating anime? Not all "dating" anime's are dumb if you can even label Clannad a dating anime in anyway.

It's a cliché story that's been done so many times, if this hadn't been done by Kyoto Animation it wouldn't have been popular at all and would have another trash anime nobody would want to watch due to the massive amount of clichés repeated over and over.

I loved Kanon 2006, but Clannad TV was nearly a copy of it, with slightly different characters and a slightly different story - And it's really getting old, I love Kyoto Animation, but they can do so much better than they did with Clannad TV which is shown by Full Metal Panic, Haruhi Season 1, Lucky Star and Air.

Arrgh "slightly different story with slightly different characters?"!! What anime have you been watching!? And massive amounts of cliche's over and over? Kyoani's awesome animation and excellent execution of the source material boasted it's popularity, but Clannad is an excellent story by it's self, hence the popularity of the VN. ANY source material would suck and become unpopular of a shitty studio messed it up. I haven't seen Kyoani's FMP's but I found Clannad a lot more enjoyable then say Lucky Star. It sure as heck wasn't a copy of Kanon besides the vague a bunch of girls having feelings for one guy but that was quickly resolved and never the focus in Clannad. If having a harem = same story to you then all harem anime's are the same? Hm I'm sounding a bit angry, but everyone's entitled to their own opinions. I just don't like it when someone says "this trash looks like shit" when they're staring at a piece of good artwork. (Ah then again perception is different for every person)

BigGimp77

2008-03-23, 01:34

As others stated: If there is a second season then the end to this season was well done.

Aiko's speech was well done, and Tomoya's confessions fit him pretty well I thought. He doesn't just seem like the type to blurt out "I LOVE YOU" at first and then kiss. The whole "Wouldn't it be interesting if we woke up and were together" to break the ice thing seemed like something he would say.

They still left things open like:
Seeing how Nagisa/Tomoya's relationship goes
Telling us more on the dream world
Tomoya's home situation; which if the series was officially over then I would be disappointed this didn't get resolved. Can't have the MAIN characters family life in shambles at the end of the series on a series about FAMILY. lol

Side note: Why was Tomoya's dad happy he said "Don't drink too much." You son just blasted you for being an alcoholic thats not funny lol.

I have faith though. A second season, even if it was only 13 episodes, could easily tie things up.

KholdStare

2008-03-23, 01:34

Okay, so that was probably the best possible ending for Clannad. I'm still indifferent about it, but at least I like this series as a whole, and I never thought I would ever like an anime with a Suzuka ending. Now we know there's still stuff to happen for episode 23, and I look forward to it very much.

It looks like the dream world won't be explored much, but it's sorta integrated into Nagisa's arc or something. I really hope for a second season, even though it probably won't happen.

Total rating for series: 8/10, "very good"

FCS-31

2008-03-23, 02:34

Episode 22 is not the end of whole clannad.

It just the ending of school part.The best story of clannad is still not showing.

Reckoner

2008-03-23, 02:50

Well, this was a mediocre episode to end a mediocre series.

I rated this episode a 7/10 only because Akio is GAR enough to make it worthwhile.

This episode's problem basically sums up my overall disdain for the show. That being, Clannad cannot seem to actually invoke any real human emotion. This includes both happiness and sadness.

Well because there probably will be another thread created, I won't go into my whole analysis of this show just yet, but I think I'm giving Clannad a 6.5-7. I'll have to review all the episodes first.

Ice Block

2008-03-23, 02:58

Finally started seeding. My thoughts on this ep:

Nagisa's depression/self-hate was nicely done, with Tomoya and co's efforts to cheer her up only working for a few seconds. Nagisa, bring your friends to Azeroth, but don't forget to go outside Azeroth with them as well!

Yukine is once again the catalyst. IIRC, that part was anime-only; but it was nicely done IMO. Nagisa watching Akio's high school play and his big speech on how he really loves theater completely removed her motivation to continue enjoying her dream. Anyway, here's a free avatar:
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8813/nagisa2zs8.gif. Nagisa, remember to take all things in moderation -- even World of Warcraft!

Akio! Way to knock some sense into that foolish daughter of yours! This was THE scene I was waiting for since Ep19; and KyoAni delivers! I have no words to describe the awesomeness, so have these instead: :bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:

Let me just say that Kyou in black is HOT :love:.http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9282/kyouinblackee5.jpg
And so with Akio's lead, Tomoya also calls out to Nagisa. My only complaint here is that KyoAni didn't make Sunohara, Kyou and the rest of the drama club call out and encourage Nagisa after Tomoya made his speech. I was expecting them to join in, what with all the route merging/interweaving and stuff. And so, we get to see the play. Nagisa, your character can perform fun actions using the emote system. For example, typing "/dance" will make your character dance.

Finally, we get to see the confession. "Would it be interesting if we were to become lovers starting tomorrow morning?" -- taken straight from the game, and the most original confession line I've ever seen/heard. Nagisa, you can turn these tips off at the Interface Options menu.

Granted, it was a bit lacking on some aspects, but this is IMO the best way to end Nagisa's scenario in the school life arc, since the real ending from the game requires After Story to immediately follow up. This way, they can still include the side characters' scenarios in a possible season 2, since the school term isn't over yet. Check my post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1476748) (WARNING! Major Spoilers!) in the Spoilers and Speculation for Experienced Gamers thread for my OPINION on how season 2 can be set-up from where this season left off (though my pacing can be horribly slow at times, and with some fanboyism inserted).

My Rating: 8/10 +1 for GAR Akio, -1 for the rest of the drama club not calling out to Nagisa, and +0.75 for Kyou in black :p = 8.75/10, rounded off to 9.

OMG, is that SEEN0666? No way in hell it can be! :heh:

After what happened with Ep16's preview for Ep17, I have learned to NEVER trust KyoAni's next episode previews. So, I'm guessing its gonna be something completely different :D.

Kaisos Erranon

2008-03-23, 03:16

*snip*

What is with all the WoW references?

HayashiTakara

2008-03-23, 03:52

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-23, 04:28

This episode's problem basically sums up my overall disdain for the show. That being, Clannad cannot seem to actually invoke any real human emotion. This includes both happiness and sadness.

Your personal opinion, if I can guess. :p I don't think lots of posters here would really agree on the part about 'real human emotion'.

So.. no one else thought that the whole "cheering up Nagisa" scene was really corny? It was so... I dunno, "Me too", The dad rushes in to say something, then mom steps up and says something then tomoya all of a sudden has the urge to rush down and say something too.

Somewhat dramatic, yes. I had thought even that Akio's appearance was a little too convenient (someone care to explain what was he doing out of the hall when Sanae was in it, and especially when his gem of a daughter's play as about to start?)

I don't think Tomoya's urge to voice his own opinions were sudden, though. He seemed to be on the verge of despair as though Nagisa was crying and still hurting and he could do nothing about it despite all his efforts before (anything done at that moment might ruin the play completely). Akio's moment of GAR was the one thing that gave him greater courage, since it apparently had some positive effect on Nagisa (as in stopped her from crying). Heck, why not chip in, and give her that final nitro boost for her confidence and burn away her sense of guilt of being trapped to the past her parents had and instead push towards the future and her own dreams so as not to let the efforts of those who helped her go to waste?

FCS-31

2008-03-23, 04:42

Yukinokesshou

2008-03-23, 04:45

So.. no one else thought that the whole "cheering up Nagisa" scene was really corny? It was so... I dunno, "Me too", The dad rushes in to say something, then mom steps up and says something then tomoya all of a sudden has the urge to rush down and say something too.

I thought the cheering up itself was okay. It was corny at first, but the drama and feelings overshadowed the corniness, so it turned out to be an effective scene.

I find it strange, though, that anyone would cry in the centre of the stage and facing the audience. Isn't it a natural (though rude) response to run off the stage when you feel the tears welling up? :heh: Based on my experience as a musician, that's what people tend to do... though of course they were probably feeling fright and not guilt.

Owaranai Destiny

2008-03-23, 04:50

I find it strange, though, that anyone would cry in the centre of the stage and facing the audience. Isn't it a natural (though rude) response to run off the stage when you feel the tears welling up? :heh:

Torn between two minds, I suppose?

I think that reflects the degree of Nagisa's desire to want to on stage to fulfil her own dream, but on the other hand the negative thoughts assailed her mind, so that provoked a negative response-crying-as well.

I'm more of the opinion that embarassment probably never occurred to Nagisa then, since her mind was filled with thoughts akin to the idea of her destroying her parents' dream by being up on stage like this, and it's due to embarassment that some, if not most people run off the stage.

Sorrow-K

2008-03-23, 05:51

Not just putting up a "just to be different" opinion, I genuinely think there was absolutely nothing wrong with Clannad's final episode and if we don't get a sequel with After Story, I would be totally fine with it. Why? Because other than the Illusionary World, pretty much everything has been wrapped up. Nagisa has made amends with her parents, and realized her worth and that she is allowed to follow the dreams that her parents could not. Okazaki and Nagisa are now together (that scene was fantastic). And even Okazaki's issue has been dealt with. Sure, the stuff with his father isn't "resolved", but a resolution isn't the point. One could argue that Okazaki will never completely resolve things with his father (what 18 year old gets along with his father anyway). Part of that scene was about the start of a bridge being built between the two, but I'd say moreso than that, the scene was about Okazaki, and how far he had come since the beginning of the series. He recognized his father, and chose not to run away from him, which is a big change in attitude compared with the first ep. I think the scene also said a lot about Nagisa and how she sees Okazaki as well. She genuinely wants to help him. None of the other characters in the series have been so genuinely kind to Okazaki. Resolution isn't the key to that particular scene... it was a reflection of the development both Okazaki and Nagisa had undergone both as individuals and as a couple. From that point of view, the scene was fitting and said a lot. Taking that particular conflict to "resolution" would just be an unnecessary distraction, IMO (unless they makes something really interesting of it).

Although there have been so many scenes like that throughout the entire series, which is why I think it's such an incredible relationship.

So I thought it was a very satisfying ending, and since I don't believe in individual episode ratings, I'd give the total series a "Good" rating (7). That's a fairly high rating from me; anything I give "7" and above, I consider worthy to be on my DVD shelf. Review in my sig, and I'll post a more thorough discussion in the "Total Series Rating" thread.

Kisuke06

2008-03-23, 07:38

Well, up to this point whether it is over or just in stasis is up in the air, so it's kinda weak to argue one way or the other. Like arguing Zero no Tsukaima is weak for leaving open ends at the end of each season.

Yeah, but since KyoAni hasn't said anything about a second season yet, therefore I assumed that the anime is over.

Mitsu Aoi

2008-03-23, 07:47

A bit disappointed how it ended

I wonder where Fuko went?...
I was expecting the Rain scene with Kyou (reference at the OP)
The story seemed to have a cliffhanger effect Dango Geass anyone?
"After story" animation would be great...

To what I see overall the series is just focusing on Nagisa and Nagisa and Nagisa also Nagisa =/

Anyways I love how the romance flow to the end of the series

Tell me is this the title of the insert song?

影二つ

Care to translate =<

FCS-31

2008-03-23, 08:25

Yes,insert song is 影二つ

The ending song of all school arc in the game.

Goodwin999

2008-03-23, 09:06

Clannad was an ok anime i give it a 7/10. It started out strong with interesting characters and a nice charm to the show but quickly got old. I found the fuko arc to be really boring in the latter parts; kitomo's arc was better. My favorite arc was the kyou/tomoya arc which lasted only about 3 episodes. I still remember that sex scene between kyou and okazaki priceless :D. The ending was good but i found the nagisa arc at the end to be very average.

superzombie23

2008-03-23, 09:07

I find it strange, though, that anyone would cry in the centre of the stage and facing the audience. Isn't it a natural (though rude) response to run off the stage when you feel the tears welling up? :heh: Based on my experience as a musician, that's what people tend to do... though of course they were probably feeling fright and not guilt.

I know exactly how it's like to be on stage or under pressure in front of many people. Nagisa doesn't have to play an instrument or anything, so it's alright for her to just stand there. I wouldn't run off the stage crying b/c that would be very cowardly looking and embarassing. In Nagisa's mind, she's so depressed and suddenly has a violent epiphany infront of everyone on the stage, which causes her to lose it. When you're like that, you really don't care about your surroundings, only yourself. Also, she can't really see the audience's faces from the stage so even more of a reason to breakout on the stage. It's all supposed to be a play, so it's not THAt embarassing to cry like that when no one really has an idea of what the play is about, and the audience is understanding about the fact acting can be nerve wrecking. Anyhow, I thought this last episode was amazing so I have to give it a near 10/10. I just love the depressing mood of the whole episode... it really turns me on (lol), and then there's the very cute ending ^o^. I'm sure if I had played the game, my rating would be much lower due to the forbidden knowledge of what's left out. My overall series rating is probably an 8-8.5/10.

Zenemis

2008-03-23, 09:50

clover

2008-03-23, 10:32

Watched the episode twice. I like it, but then I like nagisa, so some ppl are gonna say I'm biased. :) Really liked the confession scene, they're both so sweet. Awww...

Espiecakes

2008-03-23, 10:39

Kage nitsu, 2 shadows.futatsu in this case.

nikorai

2008-03-23, 10:47

Zenemis
二つ is pronounced 'futatsu' (used as a cardinal number).

Speaking of ep.22. I've just watched it late at night. Of course I liked it but the confession seemed out of the blue, imo, thought I understand they've been handing out together for quite some time, let alone the fact that Tomoya living at her place.

Kiyoru

2008-03-23, 11:41

Hm, tbh.. I didn't really like the episode. I mean, it was average but it didn't blow me away like any of the previous episodes. So, it was a poor end to the series imo.

Reckoner

2008-03-23, 12:46

Your personal opinion, if I can guess. :p I don't think lots of posters here would really agree on the part about 'real human emotion'.

And? What on a forum isn't personal opinion?

Anyways, the show did kind of rap itself up, the illusionary world was basically Nagisa's play running through her mind during the show and that is why we weren't shown Nagisa doing the whole thing as we've basically seen it all. There is no indication whatsoever that the illusionary world had a real effect on Clannad's real world. Without game knowledge it is hard to come to the conclusion that the illusionary world is actually anything significant by the end of this episode.

I do agree with the notion that the play scene was corny, but I thought Clannad in general has been a pretty corny anime in many cases so I did not think much of it.

SkoolRumble4Ya

2008-03-23, 12:57

In the summer break episode does it take place after the final episode?

Dop

2008-03-23, 13:22

And the Kamina Memorial Award for best dramatic pep-talk goes to Akio-san for Clannad Episode 22... No, seriously, I was half-expecting him to say 'believe in me, because I believe in you'.

I really enjoyed it. If they make more (given by what I've read before on this and other threads), I'll watch it.

kimchipride

2008-03-23, 13:28

My problems with Clannad...

-The whole Fuko thing. The ghost forms appear out of nowhere, and there wasn't a happy ending for the one in coma, the real Fuko.
-Problems with the dad and Tomoya wasn't resolved. I expected a heartwarming ending that sparked a new relationship between father and son.
-Nagisa's a bit annoying character near the end. I wanted to slap her.
-This isn't really a problem but it felt weird. The real, long arcs were from Fuko and Kotomi, the two characters I found least amusing. I would've rather had longer arcs with Tomoyo and Kyou.
-I didn't get any shivers, heart-warming feelings, and other qualities that made me love Kanon except in certain parts. (Dad telling Nagisa to dream on, Fuko giving sister a starfish, a teddy bear from the suitcase)

I didn't like Clannad and I'm glad that it's almost over.

I'd much like Haruhi S2 now please.

Guardian Enzo

2008-03-23, 13:50

I think all this criticism of people critiquing Clannad because it's "incomplete" is rather silly. It is what it is - I don't recall any "If this is your only Clannad experience, stop watching now" disclaimers at the start of the anime. This was the story KyoAni chose to tell, and it should be judged on what it is.

And what was it? Fine, light entertainment with a little romance. It was considerably weakened because the major conflict as presented in the anime just wasn't all that compelling. It does pale in comparison to the Kanon anime in terms of dramatic impact. But the characters were likable for the most part, much of the humor was effective and, as expected, KyoAni's visuals were beautiful. If it failed to capture all that the game had to offer, don't blame the viewers - blame the studio, because this was the path they chose.