View Full Version : True Tears - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll
Pellissier
2008-03-22, 08:09
Welcome to the discussion thread for True Tears, Episode 12.
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nvm, I think Hiromi has won
Lemme guess, Noe? (Please, please please!)
Stretch5920
2008-03-22, 11:36
serves her right
Hiromi loses
WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT? You messing with our heads or was it just for this episode? I can't even find the raw....wtf? It's LATE!!! Or they just trying to match every girl up so some what of a happy ending can happen?
solidified
2008-03-22, 11:37
NO WAY..please be joking!
I want Hiromi to win ><
We still got another episode left, but it seems like that's what's gonna happen.
Tun you're killing me with what you said, but ti does make some what sense. But still, why isn't 12 out yet? It should of been out in raw 1 hour ago. Tun made my world go nuts, I need to watch now....
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6600/1206201931354d32dhh1.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1206201931354d32dhh1.jpg)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2272/12062024680825931tn1.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12062024680825931tn1.jpg)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2730/12062027667497388jt0.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12062027667497388jt0.jpg)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6482/120620309964440c5wc5.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=120620309964440c5wc5.jpg)
Dammit! He runs to NOE.
ACHHHHHH!!! I hate Shin. T__T
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6600/1206201931354d32dhh1.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1206201931354d32dhh1.jpg)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2272/12062024680825931tn1.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12062024680825931tn1.jpg)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2730/12062027667497388jt0.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12062027667497388jt0.jpg)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6482/120620309964440c5wc5.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=120620309964440c5wc5.jpg)
Dammit! He runs to NOE.
ACHHHHHH!!! I hate Shin. T__T
AHH, those are some world turning SS. Jun....freak.....OH, my poor Hiromi I use to hate so much, when will Shin finally put everything out in the open. After seeing Hiromi go through so much, not saying Noe didn't go through a lot either, but I want her to end up with Shin......NOT JUN!!
Puzzle_Pieces
2008-03-22, 11:46
Wow, I'm really pumped up to see this episode now...
And yes, I'm glad Jun is only kissing Noe on her cheek!
I take back what I said earlier. I think it might still be a Hiromi ending.
I take back what I said earlier. I think it might still be a Hiromi ending.
Stop messing with us! Gambatte Hiromi!!!
Stop messing with us! Gambatte Hiromi!!!
My bad, I should have known better than to get trolled by anon like that. :p
Tatiana Razajev
2008-03-22, 11:50
Hiromi loses
Granted I still have yet to see the episode and can't comment on the specific episode. However to be honest I'd be shocked if she loses in the end. As they've been repeatedly telling us that Shin let Hiromi into his heart, locked the door, and threw away the key.
Then again come to think of it, Hiromi's main advantage has almost always boiled down to her head start. In other words that because she got her foot in the door first, it makes her harder for Shin to notice anyone else.
Still Hiromi vs Noe is your classic question. Do you stick with the love you've known for years or do you go with the new love you've just come to experience? So far based on 11 episodes, True Tears has been leading towards the former.
Granted one problem is going to be bias. It's easy for any of us including me to bias clues towards the girl we prefer. If we're confident she'll win, we'll see every thing as a sign she'll win. If we're not confident, we'll see everything a sign she'll lose. I went from thinking Noe would win to conceding that Hiromi would win. Still I could be wrong and Shin may end up with <insert totally impossible choice here>
Edit: Darn it I just had to type this while a post was being edited. Even so I'll keep thing as is.
Granted I still have yet to see the episode and can't comment on the specific episode. However to be honest I'd be shocked if she loses in the end. As they've been repeatedly telling us that Shin let Hiromi into his heart, locked the door, and threw away the key.
Then again come to think of it, Hiromi's main advantage has almost always boiled down to her head start. In other words that because she got her foot in the door first, it makes her harder for Shin to notice anyone else.
Still Hiromi vs Noe is your classic question. Do you stick with the love you've known for years or do you go with the new love you've just come to experience? So far based on 11 episodes, True Tears has been leading towards the former.
Granted one problem is going to be bias. It's easy for any of us including me to bias clues towards the girl we prefer. If we're confident she'll win, we'll see every thing as a sign she'll win. If we're not confident, we'll see everything a sign she'll lose. I went from thinking Noe would win to conceding that Hiromi would win. Still I could be wrong and Shin may end up with <insert totally impossible choice here>
reread my post, I changed it. I think the opposite is true.
My bad, I should have known better than to get trolled by anon like that. :p
Right.....I think you did it on purpose :uhoh:
Right.....I think you did it on purpose :uhoh:
I'm a big Hiromi fan, so I wouldn't lie about that kind of stuff.
Tatiana Razajev
2008-03-22, 11:55
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6600/1206201931354d32dhh1.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1206201931354d32dhh1.jpg)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2272/12062024680825931tn1.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12062024680825931tn1.jpg)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2730/12062027667497388jt0.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12062027667497388jt0.jpg)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6482/120620309964440c5wc5.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=120620309964440c5wc5.jpg)
Dammit! He runs to NOE.
ACHHHHHH!!! I hate Shin. T__T
Relax clearly he must be running towards Noe to tell her all about how he and Hiromi are going to do the wild thing in bed next Sunday. Seriously I have a feeling the main Shin/Noe scene we'll be getting soon will boil down to a break up and therapy session.
Puzzle_Pieces
2008-03-22, 11:56
Still I could be wrong and Shin may end up with <insert totally impossible choice here>
If that were to happen in the end I think we all would know what would happen to Shin if he broke Hiromi and Noe's heart :uhoh:
If that were to happen in the end I think we all would know what would happen to Shin if he broke Hiromi and Noe's heart :uhoh:
Gets hit by a car?
Tatiana Razajev
2008-03-22, 11:59
reread my post, I changed it. I think the opposite is true.
Yeah I noticed after I finished posting what I did. My timing is bad sometimes.
After watching episode 10, I have the feeling that it MUST be Hiromi ending. However, after seeing episode 11, I'm not sure anymore but I still have a hope that it will be Hiromi.
According to episode 12 summary spoiler "Now that he can face his own true appearance, for what will Shinichirou dance for and for who will he fly for?" and the last pic of Shin running to Chicken coop, it seems everything point to Noe.
Waiting for the raw. Let's hope that the actual episode doesn't goes as the ss point to. I mean, Shin might run to Noe to bring her tear back and still chooses Hiromi at the end.
Puzzle_Pieces
2008-03-22, 12:03
Gets hit by a car?
No, most likely he'd get Sekai'd. *RIP Shin* Of course, I'd never want anything like that to happen in this show. I don't think TT would ever sink as low as School Days...
Tatiana Razajev
2008-03-22, 12:11
Waiting for the raw. Let's hope that the actual episode doesn't goes as the ss point to. I mean, Shin might run to Noe to bring her tear back and still chooses Hiromi at the end.
I have a feeling that's the most likely scenario. Although it's kind of ironic in a sense that the way for Shin to return her tears is to get her to fall in love with him and then dump her for Hiromi who he was already in love with years ago. Granted I may be over simplifying things.
If Shin still has'nt properly faced either Noe or Hiromi about his feelings then would'nt it make sense that he has to approach Noe first in episode 13 so he can finally resolve their relationship before moving on? That's the only way he can properly face Hiromi, once he has cleared everything on his end. That's why he went to Noe, for Shin it would'nt feel right to give a full confession to Hiromi while not resolving what he had with Noe. Some of the episode endings and next episode previews from previous episodes just served to raise the anxiety level while attempting to mask the true direction.
totalnet
2008-03-22, 12:14
Having the spoilers go back and forth just makes the wait just more agonizing. Almost finishing getting it, will get to watch it in moments. Won't fully understand it, hope it give me a good sense where Shin is headed.
Stretch5920
2008-03-22, 12:15
ep summary
shin dances for hiromi
tells her he likes her after the dance
says BRB gotta dump noe
ep summary
shin dances for hiromi
tells her he likes her after the dance
says BRB gotta dump noe
LOL Gotta like that!
I really need to slap myself for going into this thread, I hope I can summon up the willpower (which I've lacked for the last 3 weeks) to ignore this thread until the sub comes out for the last episode. Posts 3-10 were a punch in the gut btw.... *reads Stretch5920 post* that's better!
My bad, I should have known better than to get trolled by anon like that. :p
Is it also why you vote 1/10 for this episode even though (I guess) you haven't watched it yet?:heh:
Well I don't know if this episode is a good one or not, based from all the spoilers I see. Even though I'm a Hiromi's fans I think the development between Shin and Noe in the beginning of the series is also good. I need to watch this episode myself to give a better judgment.
Deathkillz
2008-03-22, 12:33
How people can still be worried about Shin x Hiromi is beyond me :rolleyes:
Take it that I like Noe better, Shin and Hiromi are a better match as a couple.
Heres hope to Nobu x Ai getting more scenes ^^
Manji Midou
2008-03-22, 12:36
It shall be a NoexShin ending prepare to cry in vain u hiromixshin shippers!!!
the writers will throw us a curve ball and it shall be Noe who will come out the victor...bwehehehe
*waves Noe Flag*
the writers will throw us a curve ball and it shall be Tomoyo who will come out the victor...bwehehehe
Fixed because she has more of a chance!
How people can still be worried about Shin x Hiromi is beyond me :rolleyes:
Take it that I like Noe better, Shin and Hiromi are a better match as a couple.
Heres hope to Nobu x Ai getting more scenes ^^
Blame Tun.....LOL, all his doing!:heh: But he changed his original post so it eased up some..... He was the first to post something, and it was something totally unexpected...
I got a pretty nasty shock when I read tun's spoiler as well. Blame him!!
If this show was an orthodox series, then Hiromi's victory would be all but assured. However, this show threw the stereotype out a long time ago, so there's still the chance of a curve ball ending.
I'm a hiromixshin shipper, Hiromi がんばって！
Manji Midou
2008-03-22, 12:41
Fixed because she has more of a chance!
Lulz....it's getting to you...the kai avatar is getting to you!!
One would be silly to dismiss Noe with another episode left....Shin will bring back her tears indeed! Tears of joy when he tells her He rather be with her then with that other girl! That would make a great shocking ending!!...btw...tomoyo:confused:
Tomoyo is Hiromi's best friend.. at least I think that's her name... either way you get the point! Also I'll never wear that Kai Apron avatar because I won't be wrong :cool:
Manji Midou
2008-03-22, 12:47
Tomoyo is Hiromi's best friend.. at least I think that's her name... either way you get the point! Also I'll never wear that Kai Apron avatar because I won't be wrong :cool:
For westlo
kai avatar,kai avatar,kai avatar,kai avatar,kai avatar,kai avatar,kai avatar,.....:p
*jaw drops at cliffhanger*
Can't wait for this episode!
Wow, I don't know what to think. That definitely did not give you a decisive answer. After the performance, Shin kinda just lied and left Hiromi there, while she repeated that line "Don't leave me behind..." to herself. Meanwhile, Shin rushes over to the school, and he arrives just in time to see Noe jump off a really damn tall tree and land with a sickening thud.
Puzzle_Pieces
2008-03-22, 13:00
Woah... That's an intense cliffhanger alright.
relentlessflame
2008-03-22, 13:01
By the way, to the page above, enough shipping taunts already. Enough! No more! If you're not here to seriously discuss the content of the episode, leave already.
Manji Midou
2008-03-22, 13:11
Wow, I don't know what to think. That definitely did not give you a decisive answer. After the performance, Shin kinda just lied and left Hiromi there, while she repeated that line "Don't leave me behind..." to herself. Meanwhile, Shin rushes over to the school, and he arrives just in time to see Noe jump off a really damn tall tree and land with a sickening thud.
Crap...so Noe can end up dying in the final ep?:sad:
well at least from what you said it seems Shin's interest seems to be more on Noe then hiromi...
Crap...so Noe can end up dying in the final ep?:sad:
well at least from what you said it seems Shin's interest seems to be more on Noe then hiromi...
Yeah I'm pretty concerned as a Hiromi fan. Noe speaks in the preview, so I'm assuming she'll be fine. Hiromi also says that she hates the way that she is right now. I really don't know what to think. I just have this awful feeling that it's gonna be a Noe ending.
lol I guess that's settled then :(.
Yeah I'm pretty concerned as a Hiromi fan. Noe speaks in the preview, so I'm assuming she'll be fine. Hiromi also says that she hates the way that she is right now. I really don't know what to think. I just have this awful feeling that it's gonna be a Noe ending.
People are falling for the writers evil plan! I am so glad I don't care which one of the two girls is chosen! I am just so curious about who it will be!
relentlessflame
2008-03-22, 13:24
People are falling for the writers evil plan!Exactly. They like to keep people guessing, even if there really isn't that much to guess about. Keeps things entertaining in here, at least... :heh:
I WATCHED IT, FINALLY! First off...Poor chicken...poor poor chicken!
At first I was praising Shin, it seemed like he was growing as a character, but at the end I was like WTF? The guy never follows through and is flipy-flop. I feel sorry for all the girls.
Did that tissue chicken make chicken noises to anyone else?
Hiromi said it, she said it! "I'm the girlfriend"! Even told Noe to leave them alone....Jealousy!
Everyone confesses, tears left and right. Only 2 who haven't cried yet, Shin and Noe.
Jun, really confessed...JUST WOW! Noe didn't understand at first until he nearly kissed her on the lips.
Ai-chan seems to be doing fine now, thank goodness!
Damn cliff hanger. Shin like Ignoring Hiromi and running off to find Noe. Wtf is this guys problem. Keeps saying he's going to make himself clear but never follows through. Poor Hiromi. Still not over, I hope Shin finally reveals all the next episode. I really don't like Shin's mentally/character, even though he did have some good moments. But I think Shin just wants everyone to get a long and is worried about Noe because she's his friend and a big inspriation to him. He wants to show her his gratitude and care, but his heart and feeling really belong to Hiromi.
Hiromi and Shin have developed but not completely yet. Hiromi seems to have really grown and is what Shin has been yearning for all this time, but now Shin is like a moron. Like a lot of character mentality switching. Shin just can't seem to see or accept what's in front of him. I really hate him, really do!
Manji Midou
2008-03-22, 13:31
Yeah I'm pretty concerned as a Hiromi fan. Noe speaks in the preview, so I'm assuming she'll be fine. Hiromi also says that she hates the way that she is right now. I really don't know what to think. I just have this awful feeling that it's gonna be a Noe ending.
There's nothing wrong with that kind of ending right? I been saying all along what Shin has felt for Hiromi is a obsession crush...now that he has what he was obsessed over...maybe he finally opened his eyes to what he truly desires
I don't know why people are calling Shin a moron just because he isn't 100% attentive to hiromi
Seeing as tun said Noe comes out ok...a NoxShin ending is very possible
Afer all if you look at both girls with no biase you can easily say that Noe flows better with Shin then hiromi....Hiromi can go screw herself in the final episode...come on writers give me that shocking NoexShin ending that you been building up since episode 10!
all the hiromi fans can downplay it all they want but come the final episode it shall be a noexshin ending
There's nothing wrong with that kind of ending right? I been saying all along what Shin has felt for Hiromi is a obsession crush...now that he has what he was obsessed over...maybe he finally opened his eyes to what he truly desires
I don't know why people are calling Shin a moron just because he isn't 100% attentive to hiromi
Seeing as tun said Noe comes out ok...a NoxShin ending is very possible
Afer all if you look at both girls with no biase you can easily say that Noe flows better with Shin then hiromi....Hiromi can go screw herself in the final episode...come on writers give me that shocking NoexShin ending that you been building up since episode 10!
all the hiromi fans can downplay it all they want but come the final episode it shall be a noexshin ending
I don't think everyone is calling Shin a moron for that reason. It's more like he's a moron for being undeceive and never making himself clear. He has been hurting our girls left and right, bouncing back and forth. And I think it' more than obsession, he truly deep down loves her but at the same time he worries and cares about the other girls as well. It's his desire to please everyone that causes misunderstandings and hurts people. And the ending still left in the air, preview didn't look so promising and also we didn't hear any words from Hiromi in the preview..soo.....NOT SURE!!!!!!
Puzzle_Pieces
2008-03-22, 13:46
Never mind what I said earlier, Jun does try to kiss Noe on the lips and then cries true tears... :uhoh:
serenade_beta
2008-03-22, 13:52
CHICKEN SAVED! That was close...
But, isn't that great... The tissue box chicken started clucking! :twitch::eyespin:
It's ALIVEEEEE!
*twitch*
Nice, Noe. Just reply "Your tears are pretty/beautiful" to Hiromi after she talks to you. :rolleyes:
Actually... She seriously lost it... Something's wrong when you start hearing voices from nowhere... and she jumped off a tree! :twitch:
Hiromi... Poor her... Damn Shinichirou.
She looked a bit dangerous at times, but she doesn't seem like she'll do anything that bad.
Poor girl...
Shinichirou... :mad:
One episode to decide who he ends up with... And it isn't looking good for Hiromi. Noe, on the other hand, has a good chance now...
Oh, and almost forgot. Stalker boy finally gets to confess and tries to kiss Noe, but thanks to her jumping away, he doesn't get to.
He cries, but it's not the suffering I want him to go through. Well, I don't think he'll mess with Hiromi anymore... right?...
Preview: Hmm? Did the title change? It's "(To/For) Your Tears" now...
Two 1 ratings...
Not completely surprised, though.
Stretch5920
2008-03-22, 13:55
I'm starting to think a Noe ending is coming.....and I like it.
Manji Midou
2008-03-22, 13:55
Never mind what I said earlier, Jun does try to kiss Noe on the lips and then cries true tears... :uhoh:
That bastard!!! And here I thought he was a really nice guy....that is all....poor Noe....
I'm starting to think a Noe ending is coming.....and I like it.
Same here!!
*waves Noe flag*
cloudninja
2008-03-22, 13:55
Afer all if you look at both girls with no biase you can easily say that Noe flows better with Shin then hiromi....Hiromi can go screw herself in the final episode...come on writers give me that shocking NoexShin ending that you been building up since episode 10!
all the hiromi fans can downplay it all they want but come the final episode it shall be a noexshin ending
That's a funny line when your past posts about this show have clearly shown your own bias (i.e. saying Hiromi is evil over and over..consistent theme there). Seems contradictory to say that when you haven't even attempted to hide your bias. At least attempt to appear to be objective yourself before asking others to look at it without bias. If you are objective and secure in your own view then why the need for extreme negativity? What it shows is the need to put down someone else to justify your own preference/bias, which should not be necessary if one girl's merits are good enough to stand on their own.
I'm not promoting or putting down any girl in this post, I'm just pointing out the inconsistency between what you're doing and what you're asking others to do. Don't take it personally as an attack, I'm just holding up a mirror for you to see the inconsistency.
w00tness
2008-03-22, 13:56
I don't think everyone is calling Shin a moron for that reason. It's more like he's a moron for being undeceive and never making himself clear. He has been hurting our girls left and right, bouncing back and forth. And I think it' more than obsession, he truly deep down loves her but at the same time he worries and cares about the other girls as well. It's his desire to please everyone that causes misunderstandings and hurts people. And the ending still left in the air, preview didn't look so promising and also we didn't hear any words from Hiromi in the preview..soo.....NOT SURE!!!!!!
Shin... is not your typical useless guy that gets all the chicks... He's the atypical useless guy that gets all the chicks but keeps pushing them away.
As of now im for Shin X Jun! You dont deserve Hiromi nor Noe nor Ai. Its the writer's plan to keep us guessing, but for those of us who care about character personality too and not just who he ends up with, this sort of writing is making Shin the ultimate useless guy. Clear things up? He's been saying that for the past how many episodes? zzz
Well, Aiko complete defeat after Hiromi tells her that she is the girlfriend. Of course, Shin has not broken properly with Noe. They had not yet met, even at the ocean, after he saw she was ok he left without saying anything to Noe. Shin's angry face in the preview was of determination.
IT is still a toss up!
Jun finally fessed up and told Noe that he "LOVES" her. He first kissed her on the forehead, then another kiss on the cheek and finally he was going for the lips before Noe pulled back.
Noe realized that even though she thought she could tell things about people, she didn't notice Jun's feelings, Or hiromi's feelings or Shin'ichiro's true feelings.
Great episode!
Stretch5920
2008-03-22, 14:01
after he saw she was ok he left without saying anything to Noe.
okay, now that is just dumb. shipping crap aside, If someone is missing and you find them you tell them people are looking for them.
Deathkillz
2008-03-22, 14:03
MUHAHAHAHAHA *dies laughing*
Jun is a legend! Now what did I say about imouto complex!? :D And talk about the way he tried tosteal her kiss...sly brother indeed.
Now his motives all make sense, from the getting Shin to go out with Noe to even making that false contract with Hiromi. Ahh...it just feels awesome to see a prediction come true ^^
Second muahahahaha of the day for me is Shin's screwed up attitude. If someone where to call him a spoilt brat then I would agree. Shin has been losing point for me ever since a few eps back when he shows his flaws and now it is becoming more evident that he doesn't give a dam about anyone else other than himself.
He neglects Noe during Hiromi's "arc" and now he is doing the same to Hiromi for Noe. Basically, he is a male who can't multi-task, how about making things clear with Hiromi first before running off to Noe?
Ignorance like, he is begining to catch up the legendary makoto...
Ahh well...because of that Noe somehow made a miraculous comeback and Hiromi is in tears. Well done Shin...well done.
Noe tried to fly and went splat.
-points for being dumb :rolleyes: If I wanted to let out my anger, I would have made the chicken fly instead ^^
I think the episode was well done. On its own, it not as strong as some previous episodes, but I think it was still high quality stuff and does a good job of moving the story to its resolution. The Jun scene was intense, and I think the situation was resolved appropriately. The cliffhanger with Noe has left me on the edge of my seat. It's just how I would like to feel as we move toward the last episode.
As someone who is impartial (with no preference for either Noe or Hiromi), I think that based on this episode, we may be moving toward a Shin/Noe ending. I would never discount Hiromi, however. If it is a Shin/Noe ending, I think that the writers have actually done a good job of moving it toward this point, and I don't think a Shin/Noe ending is unreasonable or bad storytelling at all. It is a story that has been building alongside the Shin/Hiromi story.
I know it's incest, but I really thought the Jun scene when he kissed Noe on the forehead, cheek, and then slowly moved to her lips was what needed to happen. It was really tense, and now, we have true tears from him too.
Btw. Hiromi looked so pretty throughout the episode!
Guys its a drama that was slated for 13 episodes.
Stop expecting every single episode to conclude the love story when there's still plot left to be executed. Step back for a second and realize that there'd be nothing left if they didn't leave parts of Noe/Hiromi to resolve themselves in episode 13. Granted that the series has been in resolution since the end of 9, it's just been winding to the finish and waiting for episode 13 for everything to become solidly clear.
We go through this every single week where it seem like a dozen Noe fans are ready to beat up on someone or a dozen Hiromi fans want to jump the ship, but some of the shippers need to realize that this perfunctory rush to judgment is getting more and more absurd every week.
Neither Hiromi nor Noe has had the reins to control the plot since episode 10, so the senseless "hating" on them needs to stop. Jun and Shin have controlled most of the plot since around episode 4 when they made their deal, and the ball was fully in Shin's court by episode 10 when he says he'll responsibility after Hiromi moves.
I fully expected Shin to make things clear by episode 13 and not too soon before since it would have totally tapered the drama off when he did make things clear. It's a drama, not a slice of life or any other kind of story, so it's obvious that the writers would try to keep the drama at a high level until episode 13.
Why in the world were some of you expecting Shin to make things clear in episodes 10-12, when the only thing that is 100% clear is that the drama level would have hit empty rapidly after he clears up his feelings...? I have no idea where that tendency comes from other than to suspect that the Hiromi/Noe supporters just want this to end in favor of their characters as early as possible, but still, that does not exactly provide an unbiased objective appreciation of the show's weaknesses and strengths.
Manji Midou
2008-03-22, 14:12
MUHAHAHAHAHA *dies laughing*
Ignorance like, he is begining to catch up the legendary makoto...
You can't seriously compare Shin to makoto can you?
Makoto was an ass and was interested in only one thing...getting some, he used the other girls feelings just to get and in the end it backfired and got owned by sekai:heh:
Unlike Makoto Shin is confused as to what his true feelings really are..I can't wait for the final episode and see the conclusion
I would like to know how my previous post was taunting, hmm?
I see that my post gets deleted but the person's post who singled me out hasn't. I see that post as an attack on my character but thats fine and doesn't get deleted...but my post which had no taunts what so ever does...lulz w/e. :heh:
Stretch5920
2008-03-22, 14:15
I think it's mainly because the girls in the show hate eachother. Which is a nice change of pace from the usual "let's all be friends and do our best to win the guy" stuff. So the shipperfans follow suit and hate eachother aswell. Personally I am hoping for a Noe/Shin ending but at the end of the day I don't really care THAT much what happens, it's just a show and once it's over I will move onto another one regardless of which girl "wins" and forget about this one.
serenade_beta
2008-03-22, 14:16
You can't seriously compare Shin to makoto can you?
Makoto was an ass and was interested in only one thing...getting some, he used the other girls feelings just to get and in the end it backfired and got owned by sekai:heh:
Unlike Makoto Shin is confused as to what his true feelings really are..I can't wait for the final episode and see the conclusion
I would like to know how my previous post was taunting, hmm?
oh w/e. :heh:
Actually, my impression of Shinichirou is starting to overlap with Makoto too... :uhoh:
If he suffers the same fate (highly unlikely), so be it.
w00tness
2008-03-22, 14:17
Why in the world were some of you expecting Shin to make things clear in episodes 10-12, when the only thing that is 100% clear is that the drama level would have hit empty rapidly after he clears up his feelings...? I have no idea where that tendency comes from other than to suspect that the Hiromi/Noe supporters just want this to end in favor of their characters as early as possible, but still, that does not exactly provide an unbiased objective appreciation of the show's weaknesses and strengths.
On the writer's part, nothing wrong with keeping us guessing till the last episode.
On the writer's part, nothing wrong with making Shin flip-flop till the last episode.
On our part, nothing wrong with us hating Shin for his flip-floppy attitude.
Right?
And this has nothing to do with shipping.
Actually, my impression of Shinichirou is starting to overlap with Makoto too... :uhoh:
If he suffers the same fate (highly unlikely), so be it.
But he's right; Shin is just confused about what he wants and needs to do. He's been confused since the first time he told Noe that he liked her, when he sat in his room and he's like "Which one do I actually like?"
On the other hand it's not much of an exaggeration to say that Makoto was willing to go down on pretty much any female in School Days.
Either way, the comparison is almost completely unwarranted. Compare Shin with Hiroki from Canvas 2 who didn't sort his feelings out until the very end if you want a more accurate comparison.
@ w00tness
I suppose; but then again from my point of view it's more about expectation meeting reality. A lot of the people who are unhappy with Shin want him to act in some other way; like to make things clear in episodes 11 or 12. The contradictions in that kind of judgment of Shin seem fairly obvious to me since he's the construct of a 13 episode drama and for the reason I said above would wait till episode 13 to make things clear. Again, I don't think it's flip-flopping so much as it is that he doesn't know what he wants or needs to do, until perhaps he sees Noe struggling in her current state.
serenade_beta
2008-03-22, 14:24
But he's right
Either way, the comparison is almost completely unwarranted. Compare Shin with Hiroki from Canvas 2 who didn't sort his feelings out until the very end if you want a more accurate comparison.
I know.
The human heart truly is mysterious. Unwarranted or not, it compared the two.
Hiroki? Sure, I'll compare the two... if I want to start hating Shinichirou.
Guys its a drama that was slated for 13 episodes.
Stop expecting every single episode to conclude the love story when there's still plot left to be executed. Step back for a second and realize that there'd be nothing left if they didn't leave parts of Noe/Hiromi to resolve themselves in episode 13. Granted that the series has been in resolution since the end of 9, it's just been winding to the finish and waiting for episode 13 for everything to become solidly clear.
We go through this every single week where it seem like a dozen Noe fans are ready to beat up on someone or a dozen Hiromi fans want to jump the ship, but some of the shippers need to realize that this perfunctory rush to judgment is getting more and more absurd every week.
Neither Hiromi nor Noe has had the reins to control the plot since episode 10, so the senseless "hating" on them needs to stop. Jun and Shin have controlled most of the plot since around episode 4 when they made their deal, and the ball was fully in Shin's court by episode 10 when he says he'll responsibility after Hiromi moves.
I fully expected Shin to make things clear by episode 13 and not too soon before since it would have totally tapered the drama off when he did make things clear. It's a drama, not a slice of life or any other kind of story, so it's obvious that the writers would try to keep the drama at a high level until episode 13.
Why in the world were some of you expecting Shin to make things clear in episodes 10-12, when the only thing that is 100% clear is that the drama level would have hit empty rapidly after he clears up his feelings...? I have no idea where that tendency comes from other than to suspect that the Hiromi/Noe supporters just want this to end in favor of their characters as early as possible, but still, that does not exactly provide an unbiased objective appreciation of the show's weaknesses and strengths.
Shin can't face Noe because he did a TERRIBLE thing to her. He is a coward at heart because of his good boy complex. I think Shin felt EXTREMELY guilty because Noe heard about him and Hiromi from Hiromi and not from himself. Hiromi is insecure about their relationship, after all she has gone through. People also keep forgetting that Shin has not broken his relationship with Noe officially. Noe has also not done so either, even though Shin wonders if the words she told him were for a break up.
My prediction is ShinxHiromi!
Stretch5920
2008-03-22, 14:26
It's normal to hate harem leads. They are all the same indecisive idiots.
Deathkillz
2008-03-22, 14:28
Sorry...confused is one thing but ignorance is another.
He has always shown more interest in Hiromi that with Noe...of even if he did appear to take Noe seriously at one point, he did ultimately return back to his first love interesnt. What he is doing now is rather "foolish" as he is neither backing up the claim that he made to Hiromi a few eps back nor is he telling her that he needs to sort things out with Noe first.
Is that how a guy needs to treat a girl? :rolleyes:
Basically, he has a one sided track mind as I am just sitting here yelling at him to grow some balls.
*Shrugs* I am surprised that I like Nobu's personality more that him now. Amazing turn of events ^^
relentlessflame
2008-03-22, 14:35
Shin can't face Noe because he did a TERRIBLE thing to her. He is a coward at heart because of his good boy complex. I think Shin felt EXTREMELY guilty because Noe heard about him and Hiromi from Hiromi and not from himself. Hiromi is insecure about their relationship, after all she has gone through. People also keep forgetting that Shin has not broken his relationship with Noe officially. Noe has also not done so either, even though Shin wonders if the words she told him were for a break up.
My prediction is ShinxHiromi!Well, there are only so many ways to resolve Hiromi's closing scene where she removed her sandle again. Given all the emphasis they've placed on that key scene so far in the story, I find it pretty hard to imagine that Shinichirou will just leave her there. He has to return, remove his sandle, and... <dot dot dot>
I still fail to see how this episode changed anything from before, but hey! Wouldn't be the first time I've not understood this thread... :heh:
Stretch5920
2008-03-22, 14:38
I really do not like that terrible childhood sandal thing. Is that the whole thing their "love" is supossed to be based on? Because neither of them show any interest in the other person with actual reasons behind it. It's just I like him/her.
I really do not like that terrible childhood sandal thing. Is that the whole thing their "love" is supossed to be based on? Because neither of them show any interest in the other person with actual reasons behind it. It's just I like him/her.
Well, the writers had made it clear that this memory is very important for both of them. Usually shows that have a "childhood" memory involved for a romance use the plot device to tell us that is a destined pairing. I want to make clear that I am neutral and I am not shipping for neither of the two girls that are still on the running, my favorite already lost and it was written in stone in this episode! Time to cry all my Camrade as Aiko has completely given up! [She still has some hidden feelings even in this episode but she know is futile]
I really do not like that terrible childhood sandal thing. Is that the whole thing their "love" is supossed to be based on? Because neither of them show any interest in the other person with actual reasons behind it. It's just I like him/her.
It's just meant to be an allegory for everything that they did together when they were younger... kind of like the corresponding past memories at festivals in other animes. They just choose to focus on the big moment in the past where like turned into love from Hiromi's pov in this case...
I really do not like that terrible childhood sandal thing. Is that the whole thing their "love" is supossed to be based on? Because neither of them show any interest in the other person with actual reasons behind it. It's just I like him/her.
That time was probably when Hiromi first saw Shin in that way and it became an important memory for her. Clues in episode 3 and 10 make me think that Shin had a good reason why he remembered it as well, because he showed a strong reaction when Hiromi told him that of course she would never forget such a memory after earlier saying that she had forgotten. That memory has taken on a strong symbolic meaning in the show. My prediction is that Shin in episode 13 will let Hiromi know that it too was a cherished memory of his when he comes back to convince her of his feelings and overcome her doubts about him and Noe.
Their current level of feelings did'nt just happen overnight. They have been classmates since elementary school and had a friendly level of interaction over the years even though they were not close friends or anything. So the initial attraction that started back then probably continued to grow over the years. I don't find that hard to believe or understand at all. Don't a lot of people start having feelings for someone because of a shared special moment and then have their feelings grow over time as friends? I wish the show was a little longer so that they could show their past interaction in more detail to the visually obsessed who have trouble believing anything that they don't actually see.
Remember that Tomoyo in episodes 2 and 3 kept insisting that Shin was the one that Hiromi liked. In episode 8, Tomoyo told Hiromi that she had thought that Shin always had his sights set on her and never expected him to go out with Noe instead. Tomoyo did'nt base her assumptions on what happened in the past year when Hiromi was distant with Shin. It was probably based on what she saw of them when they were still friendly with each other. In other words, the attraction between Shin and Hiromi was noticeable to Tomoyo in the time period before Hiromi moved into Shin's house. When Hiromi took an interest in Shin and Noe after seeing them together in episode 2, Tomoyo correctly guessed that Hiromi was jealous. We did'nt know for sure back then but the episodes since then have clarified things. The writers have given us plenty of clues to work with, it just seems many viewers are too visually oriented so they want a lot of screentime showing things in detail before they can accept it.
Hilarious.
Could use a bloody ending. I don't see how else the yandere is going to be sated in one episode.
Cloudninja or anyone else who knows the ost, was the second half of track 30 used this episode?
PhantomX
2008-03-22, 16:34
Sorry...confused is one thing but ignorance is another.
He has always shown more interest in Hiromi that with Noe...of even if he did appear to take Noe seriously at one point, he did ultimately return back to his first love interesnt. What he is doing now is rather "foolish" as he is neither backing up the claim that he made to Hiromi a few eps back nor is he telling her that he needs to sort things out with Noe first.
Is that how a guy needs to treat a girl? :rolleyes:
Basically, he has a one sided track mind as I am just sitting here yelling at him to grow some balls.
*Shrugs* I am surprised that I like Nobu's personality more that him now. Amazing turn of events ^^
I've always liked Nobuse and Aiko considerably more than the main characters this entire time through... they show mounds more strength of character, intelligence, and normalcy than the three mains -_-
Nobuse didn't want to break up with Aiko, so he made it difficult for her, but then he did the right thing and let her end it. Aiko just needed to do things on her own terms, so she dumped Nobuse (she probably only agreed to date him the first time b/c Shin and Nobu kept egging her on), got over Shin, and then starts over on a clean slate. At least they're both honest about their feelings.
Also, Nobuse seems pretty respected around school, and is all-and-all a cool guy.
I watch these episodes more than anything to see them, I'm indifferent as to who wins the wholly unexciting Shinichirou.
Cloudninja or anyone else who knows the ost, was the second half of track 30 used this episode?
Speaking for myself, I definitely did not hear the second half of track 30. I might have heard a few seconds of the first half but I'm not sure because it was too short to differentiate because a lot of the tracks are based on similar sounding tunes. But I'm pretty sure the 2nd half of track 30 was not played.
Well even though the outcome is obvious that's still a relief, thanks for the prompt reply.
EDIT
The following comment by Mentar on Omni's blog is so fucking true
I’ll give you a hint about romance shows: You do not want to be the first girl the guy talks to in the final episode.
Pretty much applies to a lot of anime shows (It applies to 2 from Fall season, KGNE etc), fuck even reality dating shows like Joe Millionaire, Bachelor and other crap like that.
Supah Em
2008-03-22, 19:32
Jun finally fessed up and told Noe that he "LOVES" her. He first kissed her on the forehead, then another kiss on the cheek and finally he was going for the lipst before noe pulled back.
now i havent seen the episode yet and this is one disturbing comment. is Jun related to noe by blood? or a cousin? or an "oniichan but not really blood related" archetype?
my patience for shin is running out, and it did run out in this episode, this guy keep going back and forth, back and forth, rinse and repeat.
at one point he keeps ignoring noe when he was with hiromi, and then bam, he ignore hiromi
can i have nobuse and aiko as the male and female lead now? my respect to nobuse (call him a loser or what, but he is the one who didn't stray from the one he loved) >>>> my respect to shin (the good guy, bagh)
seriously i just don't like this kind of undecisiveness, i even keep saying in my mind when i watch this episode "oh god shin, what the hell are you doing?"
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
2008-03-22, 20:24
I have no idea what was Shin thinking in this episode........I am glad i am not the only one frustrated with him.
In the end,because of his indecisiveness,he might just be alone.That would be an awesome ending.All fans would be happy because neither female characters "won"
SoldierOfDarkness
2008-03-22, 20:30
my patience for shin is running out, and it did run out in this episode, this guy keep going back and forth, back and forth, rinse and repeat.
at one point he keeps ignoring noe when he was with hiromi, and then bam, he ignore hiromi
can i have nobuse and aiko as the male and female lead now? my respect to nobuse (call him a loser or what, but he is the one who didn't stray from the one he loved) >>>> my respect to shin (the good guy, bagh)
seriously i just don't like this kind of undecisiveness, i even keep saying in my mind when i watch this episode "oh god shin, what the hell are you doing?"
True. At least he sticks with one. :heh:
mandarb916
2008-03-22, 20:37
All I can say is, Shin = Makoto from school days... :/
margafred
2008-03-22, 20:43
Hiromi has won
Fixed for the win.Its the truth anyway :)
Tatiana Razajev
2008-03-22, 21:35
Honestly I think one thing we're all going to have to remember is this. That Shin can't exactly solve the issue with Hiromi and Noe by pretending that one of them doesn't even exist and hoping she'll go away. It's not going to work like that. Right now it's more important if you ask me for Shin to deal with Noe first. Essentially dump her and apologize to her for figuratively treating her like an object, a replacement, etc. Once he properly talks to Noe and such, Hiromi will likely have access to him for a very long time.
Honestly I think one thing we're all going to have to remember is this. That Shin can't exactly solve the issue with Hiromi and Noe by pretending that one of them doesn't even exist and hoping she'll go away. It's not going to work like that.
the funny thing is that is exactly what he has been doing with Noe, he has not met with Noe for a while.
Tatiana Razajev
2008-03-22, 22:40
the funny thing is that is exactly what he has been doing with Noe, he has not met with Noe for a while.
Come to think of it you're right and that's something he'll need to fix soon.
But Shin has been looking for Noe... I think that Noe has been the one avoiding him, yes?
But Shin has been looking for Noe... I think that Noe has been the one avoiding him, yes?
He only looked for her because she was missing that time. He saw she was safe and didn't even talked to her, he just left at the beggining of episode 12. She is avoiding him, but he is not making and effort to find her either. He knows her Phone number and where she live.
relentlessflame
2008-03-22, 23:01
Cloudninja or anyone else who knows the ost, was the second half of track 30 used this episode?As was said, the answer is no, but... the pre-ending of the episode was an obvious setup for using it in the next episode (if you remember what scene is associated with that song). Of course, it was obvious they were going to use it in the next episode anyway, since it was on the OST, but this episode made it pretty clear how they were going to do that.
but this episode made it pretty clear how they were going to do that.[/spoiler]
I am going to play dumb, but care to elaborate on that.
I am not much into OST ! I know where they played the first half of OST track 30, but where do you think they will play the second half.
Well after the spoilers, i think Noe just got a better chance to end with Shin. Theres something about the idea that Noe and Jun both end up screwed (Jun confesses and gets rejected and Noe gets dumped by Shin) that doesn't quite feel like the ending.
Hypernova
2008-03-23, 00:07
I hope Noe's al right. That *thump* when she landed scared the crap out of me.
relentlessflame
2008-03-23, 00:12
I am going to play dumb, but care to elaborate on that.
I am not much into OST ! I know where they played the first half of OST track 30, but where do you think they will play the second half.
Will do, but in the "Speculations and Theories" thread instead.
Heh. Just saw ep 12 raw. I'm seeing my curve ballll~ hahaha
Anyway, in all seriousness, I would rate this episode 11/10 if I can. It just reminded me why I was fascinated by this show. The writers are keeping us guessing on what's gonna happen. I guess this is what I actually want those writers to give us--not the obviousness from a ShinxHiromi ending. This way, they get to keep things interesting.
Since there are no subtitles, did Raigomaru fly in this episode?
usagijen
2008-03-23, 02:15
wowowow, I can't believe all that happened in this episode O__O
so much excitement stirred me to churn out a short yet somewhat incoherent post (http://scrumptious.animeblogger.net/2008/03/23/true-tears-12-omgz-just-as-planned/) about my sentiments for this episode lol.
Shin clearly realized in this episode that it was Noe who believed in his dreams, and allowed him to fly. Among the crowd of people watching the dance, his eyes were fixed on Noe, and Hiromi herself was surprised by that.
Shin is going to tell Noe all this by the next episode, and I'm crossing my fingers that this translates into a Noe ending ;___;
im crossing my finger to my hiromi x shin prediction (which is a lil bit wavering when i watch this episode, like its all going on direction of noe x shin)
@usagijen: what if something like this happen in episode 13
shin realize that noe is the one that make him able to realize his dream, thank her, but then also apologize to her that although she is the one that make him realize his dream, he has other girl that he care more than her *hiromi* , now that would made one hell of OMGWTFBBQ for me and made me cheers like kimikiss ending, or it goes the way as your prediction and make me go *NOOOOOO* anyway no hard feelings, its just we hope for different ending thats all :D
Stretch5920
2008-03-23, 03:56
No one seems to be mentioning that Shin rewrote the ending to his story this ep, since he didn't like the Jibeta tries to fly and dies ending.
relentlessflame
2008-03-23, 03:57
what if something like this happen in episode 13
shin realize that noe is the one that make him able to realize his dream, thank her, but then also apologize to her that although she is the one that make him realize his dream, he has other girl that he care more than her *hiromi* , now that would made one hell of OMGWTFBBQ for meFor reference, Episode 1:
In my mind, you were always crying.
I've wanted to wipe away your tears.
But, I've never known what it was to wipe those tears from your soft cheeks.
Somewhere, there's an angel.
It'd be nice if that angel could gather your tears
And, with those tears, make a necklace to place around a tree.
The tree of tears keeps shining and shining...What's Shinichirou's dream? What was Noe's role in helping him fulfill that dream? So, where do Shinichirou's feelings truly lie? Why, then, did he need to go see Noe?
If you ask me, at least, there's nothing OMGWTFBBQ about it.
No one seems to be mentioning that Shin rewrote the ending to his story this ep, since he didn't like the Jibeta tries to fly and dies ending.Irony, foreshadowing, or both? You decide! :heh: But seriously, it was pretty clear he was going to re-write the ending after last episode, since even he thought that ending was bad. It didn't represent his true feelings.
Sailor Enlil
2008-03-23, 04:18
Well I have a few thoughts on this
Definitely it's going to be very hard with Noe, assuming she survives the fall (odds of someone her age surviving that are really on the edge - how tall was that tree? Last anime character known to survive that was Kanon's Ayu, and it put her in a coma for several years!). And if she does survive one of these two would happen:
1. Shin x Noe ending, but a very tragic one, especially if it ends up into a Kanon situation (i.e. Noe falls into a coma); or at least a hard life for them if say Noe becomes crippled and Shin decides to play nurse-maid.
2. Shin x Hiromi ending, where Noe (if she regains consciousness and her state of mind) tells Shin to let go of her and find happiness with Hiromi.
Of course if Noe doesn't survive, Shin would either wallow in mourning for Noe, or let go of her and go back to Hiromi (but I'm sincerely hoping it won't come to this).
And with Noe herself visually absent in the preview, it's all in the air.
Then there can be a twist - suppose Noe fell on top of a pile of snow thick enough to cushion her fall (the thud is a generic kind; we don't know if it was a hard or soft impact), then a happy Shin x Noe ending would be possible.
No one seems to be mentioning that Shin rewrote the ending to his story this ep, since he didn't like the Jibeta tries to fly and dies ending.
I forgot to mention that. You're right. Well, it was obvious Shin would change it. Jibeta dies, and Raigomaru finds out that he's just an ordinary meek chicken (Shin's just an ordinary harem character). The picturebook ended so bland and awkwardly.
I feel kind of silly for not accepting this sooner, but if Raigomaru's flight represents Shin being able to love Noe---then I guess ShinxNoe is sealed judging from
Raigomaru's flight in this episode and Shin running over to Noe.
It makes sense to me after all, between the picturebook and Hiromi's drama, I feel the show focuses more on the picturebook, concept of flight, and Raigomaru.
For reference, Episode 1:
In my mind, you were always crying.
I've wanted to wipe away your tears.
But, I've never known what it was to wipe those tears from your soft cheeks.
Somewhere, there's an angel.
It'd be nice if that angel could gather your tears
And, with those tears, make a necklace to place around a tree.
The tree of tears keeps shining and shining...What's Shinichirou's dream? What was Noe's role in helping him fulfill that dream? So, where do Shinichirou's feelings truly lie? Why, then, did he need to go see Noe?
If you ask me, at least, there's nothing OMGWTFBBQ about it.
Irony, foreshadowing, or both? You decide! :heh: But seriously, it was pretty clear he was going to re-write the ending after last episode, since even he thought that ending was bad. It didn't represent his true feelings.
actually it is a positive OMGWTFBBQ, made me choke upside down in happiness, if you catch it in other way around then its not :heh:
War_Lord
2008-03-23, 06:23
I guess a Shin x Noe or Shin x Hiromi ending depends on whether Shin has developed true feelings for Noe or just feels guilty about leading her on. If he does have feelings for Noe, then I consider Hiromi and Jun's tear shedding in this episode to be ominous. I hope that Noe and Shin's true tears won't be based on sadness, but rather happiness (Whether they get together or not).
On a side note, I knew from the beginning Jun had a thing for Noe, I just expected a random surprise kiss. But of course, Noe is too perceptive to get caught off guard like that. Bless her heart, lol.
Shin'ichiro is going to end up with Miyokichi.
Damn Korean drama-esque anime series!
Deathkillz
2008-03-23, 07:25
I forgot to mention that. You're right. Well, it was obvious Shin would change it. Jibeta dies, and Raigomaru finds out that he's just an ordinary meek chicken (Shin's just an ordinary harem character). The picturebook ended so bland and awkwardly.
I feel kind of silly for not accepting this sooner, but if Raigomaru's flight represents Shin being able to love Noe---then I guess ShinxNoe is sealed judging from
Raigomaru's flight in this episode and Shin running over to Noe.
It makes sense to me after all, between the picturebook and Hiromi's drama, I feel the show focuses more on the picturebook, concept of flight, and Raigomaru.
Wow. Thanks for clicking it into me (I am slow :heh:).
I hereby name Shin to be the holy prophet of the picture book! prediction rate of 100% chance success. :heh:
As much as he found it to be a lame ending to the story, it happened right in front of him. Oh the irony.
Anyway, what Shin will do now will depend on how seriously injured Noe turns out to be. The Jibeta in his book died, will Noe suffer the same fate? (remember...100% prediction rate :heh:).
can i have nobuse and aiko as the male and female lead now? my respect to nobuse (call him a loser or what, but he is the one who didn't stray from the one he loved) >>>> my respect to shin (the good guy, bagh)
And if Nobuse was the lead you would more than likely be whining about him and wishing his best friend Shin was the lead :rolleyes: Because everything that pissing you off about Shin comes with being the main character in a show like this. Aside from the lead of the Korean manhwa Unbalance X Unbalance (Jin ho ftw!) I really doubt their is a harem lead that people can generally like and not bitch about.
And if Nobuse was the lead you would more than likely be whining about him and wishing his best friend Shin was the lead :rolleyes: Because everything that pissing you off about Shin comes with being the main character in a show like this. Aside from the lead of the Korean manhwa Unbalance X Unbalance (Jin ho ftw!) I really doubt their is a harem lead that people can generally like and not bitch about.
I have to agree. The way the show is set up there never was a clean way for Shin to resolve the situation, whereas Nobuse only has a one way street with Ai. I know everyone would like to keep things simple since most people are fans of either ShinxHiromi or ShinxNoe, but this situation has been extremely messy ever since Shin misunderstood Hiromi's intent in answering her friend's question. Since the Shin/Jun pact that spawned shortly thereafter, Shin has had both Hiromi and Noe in his heart in a sense, so he does feel responsible for what both of them have been going through.
The problem is that he wasn't able to find a simple answer to what he said about doing things properly simply because the complex triangle defies a clean, simple resolution.
SnEptUne
2008-03-23, 23:24
Yay, the story book is finally finished. I like how Shin finally realized how he never made decision for himself and how Noe talked about the pride of a chicken (theme: independence vs freedom). Too bad she went emo and thought she was a bird who can fly from jumping from high places. O_O
This episode is very fast paced and the execution is at least decent enough. The panning of the drawings of Noe and Hiromi was a little excessive though. I wonder if Hiromi will copy Noe and jumped from a roof? This series is getting better and better with all those emo.
Cry your heart out, Hiromi, after all the trouble, Shin is abandoning you again... :rolleyes: Geez, she is playing victim again. What beautiful tears, they should be collected and sold on ebay! She can get indeed get carried away just because she is beautiful...
MUHAHAHAHAHA *dies laughing*
Jun is a legend! Now what did I say about imouto complex!? :D And talk about the way he tried tosteal her kiss...sly brother indeed.
Now his motives all make sense, from the getting Shin to go out with Noe to even making that false contract with Hiromi. Ahh...it just feels awesome to see a prediction come true ^^
Second muahahahaha of the day for me is Shin's screwed up attitude. If someone where to call him a spoilt brat then I would agree. Shin has been losing point for me ever since a few eps back when he shows his flaws and now it is becoming more evident that he doesn't give a dam about anyone else other than himself.
He neglects Noe during Hiromi's "arc" and now he is doing the same to Hiromi for Noe. Basically, he is a male who can't multi-task, how about making things clear with Hiromi first before running off to Noe?
Ignorance like, he is begining to catch up the legendary makoto...
Ahh well...because of that Noe somehow made a miraculous comeback and Hiromi is in tears. Well done Shin...well done.
Noe tried to fly and went splat.
-points for being dumb :rolleyes: If I wanted to let out my anger, I would have made the chicken fly instead ^^
I agree completely. But if it is me, I wouldn't let the chicken fly either. How nice is it to experience flying from a tree... Too bad, I still need to live this life. I need to get old and die.
CHICKEN SAVED! That was close...
But, isn't that great... The tissue box chicken started clucking! :twitch::eyespin:
It's ALIVEEEEE!
*twitch*
Nice, Noe. Just reply "Your tears are pretty/beautiful" to Hiromi after she talks to you. :rolleyes:
Actually... She seriously lost it... Something's wrong when you start hearing voices from nowhere... and she jumped off a tree! :twitch:
Hiromi... Poor her... Damn Shinichirou.
She looked a bit dangerous at times, but she doesn't seem like she'll do anything that bad.
Poor girl...
Two 1 ratings...
Not completely surprised, though.
I actually think Shinichirou isn't too bad. You can't expect boys to do any better than him.
On the other hand, I think Noe is doing fine. When you have raised chicken as pet, you will know that even though it died, you can still hear it clucking at night. The same for my pet snake, the few days after it died, I kept hearing hissing. And I am pretty sure when family members died, one can still hear them talking in the next room even though the room is empty. It is really normal.
Wow. Thanks for clicking it into me (I am slow :heh:).
I hereby name Shin to be the holy prophet of the picture book! prediction rate of 100% chance success. :heh:
As much as he found it to be a lame ending to the story, it happened right in front of him. Oh the irony.
Anyway, what Shin will do now will depend on how seriously injured Noe turns out to be. The Jibeta in his book died, will Noe suffer the same fate? (remember...100% prediction rate :heh:).
You're welcome. ^__________^ Well, if you will reread my previous post, you will actually see that I added the word "if" somewhere in there.
Cry your heart out, Hiromi, after all the trouble, Shin is abandoning you again... :rolleyes: Geez, she is playing victim again. What beautiful tears, they should be collected and sold on ebay! She can get indeed get carried away just because she is beautiful; in conclusion, pretty people can get away from being a needy kid.
LOL! The Mugiha dance was the hightlight of this show for me. :) For some reason, I think the deal about Hiromi and her "don't leave me behind" line are getting a little too overused. -_- I don't think it's just me. Here's to hoping she doesn't pull that pity party trick to get Shin's favor. If this show is intended to be a HiromixShin ending, they better do it properly.
I also noticed that they're making Hiromi look like the bad guy here when
She told Noe that she and Shiniro already love each other and Noe should leave them alone. Usually, the girl who says this type of thing gets to lose at the end. lol
Kind of unexpected. I thought that was a bad move for her--plotwise.
yupyupyup
2008-03-24, 04:43
I hope for Hiromi ending. I have a huge fetish for long hair, and Noe is kinda crazy (stays with chicken, says strange things...) no matter how cute she is!
D a m i e n
2008-03-24, 07:19
nice episode.
they managed to keep the drama going i m glad to see that what i was hoping to see is happening, if from episode 10 to 13 it had been an easy ride for hiromixshin it would have suck.
weither it s a noexshin or hiromixshin ending i dont mind as long as it s well written.
jun was great this episode, i love the way he asked if he could kiss noe and when she didnt notice anything he waited holding his lips 2cm away from hers to make her understand what he mean by loving her. i might be giving him too much credit but it seem to me he never would have kissed her even though he was dying to do it. it was just a way to make her understand that he didnt only love her from a brotherly love.
anyway 1 eps left.
what will be this spring romance that has any chance of living up to TT's level?
After watching episode 12, all I can say is...
...
...
WOWWWWW.
When the heck did both Hiromi and Jun turn into the weepy type? Why has Shin's IQ been decreasing exponentially with each passing episode? What's with the weird musical inserts that are all like "insert BAAAAWWWWW here"? Why is Jun such a freaky child molester all of a sudden? WHEN DID THIS TURN INTO THE MUTANT LOVE-CHILD OF SCHOOL DAYS AND KOI KAZE?!?
This episode only served to remind me of how much of an "average" harem anime True Tears really is. Shin's feelings have been jumping back and forth throughout the series, and I guess next episode will be a "I suddenly had an epiphany" type of episode, where he'll finally realize where his true feelings lay. How disappointing.
I think the main problem with this series is the fact that it can't seem to decide where it's plot should go. It embarks on new plot lines every few episodes, and offer each of them either an inconclusive end, or a branching off into a new plot line. The first couple of episodes deal with Hiromi's parentage, Shin's feelings for Noe, and Aiko's whole fiasco. None of them have been concluded to any satisfaction. Somewhere in there, Shin finally realizes that he actually likes Hiromi, but after a kiss it went nowhere (and let's not forget the sandal episode, which is revisited in this episode and is supposedly the reason why Hiromi adores Shin so much). And now we have...incest-chan and a last episode rush ending. Even the storybook metaphor's getting a bit jumbled; I don't even know which chicken's supposed to represent who anymore.
One last thing. While I was and always has been a Noe fanboy, and while I certainly wouldn't mind a NoexShin ending, I feel that, after everything that's transpired throughout this series, such a pairing would almost be a let-down. It'll be like as if the fanbase decided which heroine the protagonist ended up with (I'm looking at you, Ichiho 100%). Episode 13 won't be able to redeem this series from mediocrity, but let us just hope that it doesn't leave us with a Myself;Yourself-esque cop-out ending.
p.s. I'm assuming Noe doesn't die from her rendition of the Wright brothers (judging by the landing noise). Because if she did...I'd have to journey to Japan and choke a bitch. Who's up for a Kimi ga Nozomu Eien coma-girl ending? =P
good episode, and one more to go.
omg, Hiromi going to lose base on this episdoe those behaviour of Shin. It really a unbelieable turning(maybe). I still confuse Shin like Hiromi or Noe by now, but from the fact Noe is higher chance. Last few episode Hiromi get higher chance, but now the chance get lower and lower, I better hope Aiko win for Shin (if have any chance >.<", too bad she already out long time ago).
The dance was really awesome, nice :D
Jun finally confess, lukily he still can stop the final kiss, if not omg o.O"...
At the end, Shin go to find Hiromi but leave Hiromi behind, Im sure Hiromi was really hurt. Hiromi said "dun leave me", too low voice i guess.
Don't tell me Noe is trying suicide?(fake) damn cliffhanger of this episode, one more to go, need to wait a week.
If anything happened from Noe from that fall I'm gonna be pissed off because it's unrealistic that she'll fall into a coma from that, she did not land on her head, she landed on her chest unless she did some weird maneuvering the last second to make sure she landed on her head.
Noe fan anyway, I don't understand why people like Hiromi. So hoping for a Noe ending which seems more likely than in episode 11.
Why is Jun such a freaky child molester all of a sudden? WHEN DID THIS TURN INTO THE MUTANT LOVE-CHILD OF SCHOOL DAYS AND KOI KAZE?!?
If this incest action suddenly surprised you than you really shouldn't be calling things average when you can't even pick up something that's been obvious since Jun put the helmet on Noe and longingly wanted to caress her face. Everything he did since than was all for Noe, we didn't need Hiromi's words in episode 11 to figure that out, it was obvious.
I think the main problem with this series is the fact that it can't seem to decide where it's plot should go.
The series knows where it's going, it's the majority of the fan base who don't. I'm probably one of the top Hiromi and Shin shippers on AS but even to someone as biased as me I knew after 10 it would go back to Noe before a true resolution was reached.
p.s. I'm assuming Noe doesn't die from her rendition of the Wright brothers (judging by the landing noise). Because if she did...I'd have to journey to Japan and choke a bitch. Who's up for a Kimi ga Nozomu Eien coma-girl ending? =P
She's talking in the next episode preview.
I can' she said that. Hiromi's one damn bitch
GO NOE!!!!!
DragoonKain3
2008-03-24, 09:00
Best scene/line in the episode, "I'm his girlfriend." JERRY.... I mean, CATFIGHT! XD
Seriously speaking though, I like how not only explicitly states that Hiromi is fighting for Shin against Noe, but also how it subtly states to Ai to lay off her man. I mean, if Ai knows of their feelings from before (which one can argue is one of the reasons Ai decided to go out with his best friend), it isn't a big stretch to think that Hiromi knew of Ai's as well.
I do find it pretty funny that even though Hiromi and Ai apparently knows each other pretty well since they are on a first name basis (which is a no brainer, as both are childhood friends of Shin), this is the first time in memory they actually interacted in the show. In that line of thought, has Miyokichi and Hiromi ever spoke to each other yet? As from memory I don't think so lol.
As for the final pairing, my prediction haven't changed from last time, since what is shown now was foreshadowed by Shin's book from last episode. What I didn't expect was for this episode to follow the storybook almost literally lol.
Finally, Hiromi in Kimono = <3. By far she was shown with the most varied wear out of all the girls, and I ain't complaining. She's the prettiest childhood friend character I have seen in a very long while, as usually these type of characters are quite plain in design. XD
I'm 99% sure that Miyokichi and Hiromi have never spoken, anyway we're 1 from 2 DK lets make it 2 from 2 next week.
Shin mugiha...lol
Hiromi in Kimono :love:
Noe has the best dialogues in the entire serie!
and wtf again a cliffhanger...
let the curtain fall for the last ep...
Deathkillz
2008-03-24, 10:11
After watching episode 12, all I can say is...
...
...
WOWWWWW.
When the heck did both Hiromi and Jun turn into the weepy type? Why has Shin's IQ been decreasing exponentially with each passing episode? What's with the weird musical inserts that are all like "insert BAAAAWWWWW here"? Why is Jun such a freaky child molester all of a sudden? WHEN DID THIS TURN INTO THE MUTANT LOVE-CHILD OF SCHOOL DAYS AND KOI KAZE?!?
And why are you so shocked about this?
None of the characters in this series have been the emotionally strong type. And it was a matter of time til Jun brokedown and revealed the truth. I was in the group who called for him being incestrious towards Noe. Ever since the helmet scene we knew that he wasn't just a big brother towards Noe, and pretty much saw him walking down that line. Don't know about koi kaze but I can see who the next makoto wannabe is :rolleyes:
This episode only served to remind me of how much of an "average" harem anime True Tears really is. Shin's feelings have been jumping back and forth throughout the series, and I guess next episode will be a "I suddenly had an epiphany" type of episode, where he'll finally realize where his true feelings lay. How disappointing.
Couldn't have put it any better. Dam Shin and his "feelings".
Rewatching this ep, the resolution made in the closet was most fitting for him, I think. (LMAO).
One last thing. While I was and always has been a Noe fanboy, and while I certainly wouldn't mind a NoexShin ending, I feel that, after everything that's transpired throughout this series, such a pairing would almost be a let-down. It'll be like as if the fanbase decided which heroine the protagonist ended up with (I'm looking at you, Ichiho 100%). Episode 13 won't be able to redeem this series from mediocrity, but let us just hope that it doesn't leave us with a Myself;Yourself-esque cop-out ending.
Because it doesn't make any sense. How crazy Shin felt for Hiromi to being able to "obtain her" and then going off to Noe. He could have at least shown some consideration but the dam closet resolution didn't kick in for Hiromi at all. "I will do everything proper" my butt :rolleyes:
I don't think they are allowing the fanbase to do anything, but rather going into a messy plot with no land on either side.
(M;Y wasn't a cop out for me but lets not go there :heh:).
DragoonKain3
2008-03-24, 10:11
@Westlo
Unlike the rest of our ship, I'm not nearly as confident about HiromiXShin. That is, I'm not 100% confident as I was in the ship of the other series. As such, even if HXS do 'win', me putting a 70% win chance wouldn't make me 2 out of 2 because I admitted there's a good chance they won't succeed. :heh:
greyhawk
2008-03-24, 10:47
In the previous episode when Hiromi kissed Shin, a certain number of people were like, yay!
In this episode when Shin said he knew from the bottom of his heart Noe was the reason for him to draw and we could see her image reflected in his eyes, the same certain number of people state that Shin is simply going to dump/"take care of" Noe before going back to Hiromi, and complain about the writers being evil.
WHATEVER.
I realise how dumb it is. I shall try my best to refrain from such behavior from now on (in case I was ever like that)
Why is Jun such a freaky child molester all of a sudden? WHEN DID THIS TURN INTO THE MUTANT LOVE-CHILD OF SCHOOL DAYS AND KOI KAZE?!?
I have to disagree with you on most of this. Jun's actions have been 100% consistent throughout the show. He has only cared for Noe; every single action Jun has undertaken can be tied to Noe's well-being (yes, including helping Hiromi for show at the basketball game "for the good of the contract"). Jun's affection for Noe was never really masked as much as you might have not been paying attention to the hints or something. It was clear from a mile away that Jun felt nothing for Hiromi and possibly something more for Noe from early on, which is nowhere near as sudden a twist as you indicate.
This episode only served to remind me of how much of an "average" harem anime True Tears really is. Shin's feelings have been jumping back and forth throughout the series, and I guess next episode will be a "I suddenly had an epiphany" type of episode, where he'll finally realize where his true feelings lay. How disappointing.
You seem to be judging True Tears as "average" based on a conjecture about the last episode that we haven't seen yet. For all we know, episode 13 might end up making Shin at least almost as consistent as Jun, so I have no idea why you're using a hypothetical basis for that kind of conjecture. If episode 13 ends up with his feelings in a different place from episode 10, then you are correct, but that is nowhere near the given that you seem to be taking it as..., and even if it does, the show has done a good job of creating the situation that whatever pops up in 13 will not seem like a farfetched twist.
I think the main problem with this series is the fact that it can't seem to decide where it's plot should go. It embarks on new plot lines every few episodes, and offer each of them either an inconclusive end, or a branching off into a new plot line. The first couple of episodes deal with Hiromi's parentage, Shin's feelings for Noe, and Aiko's whole fiasco. None of them have been concluded to any satisfaction. Somewhere in there, Shin finally realizes that he actually likes Hiromi, but after a kiss it went nowhere (and let's not forget the sandal episode, which is revisited in this episode and is supposedly the reason why Hiromi adores Shin so much). And now we have...incest-chan and a last episode rush ending. Even the storybook metaphor's getting a bit jumbled; I don't even know which chicken's supposed to represent who anymore.
As I said before around episode 10 on here, there has been no new plot introduction since that episode. We already knew that the Raigomaru/Jibeta story would converge with the dance that Shin was preparing for in the final act. The only plot line that was inconclusive was Shin's mother; pretty much every viewer is unhappy with how that one went. There was no real basis given and no satisfactory conclusion to that plot line, but other than that single plot line, I think most of the story has been dealt with well and given solid resolution.
Shin's feelings for Noe/Hiromi are going to be resolved in 13, so obviously that's inconclusive as of episode 12..., and how much more resolution do you want for Ai? Ai's plot has been thoroughly dealt with, there's nothing left to do on that front considering she reconciled with Nobuse and "moved on" from Shin as best as she could.
Muyasuki
2008-03-24, 11:36
Episode 12 ended up being a lot better than what I originally thought it would be and Noe has now claimed the top spot for cliffhangers.
I don't know if it was mentioned yet, but how must Noe's mindset have been after all that was basically revealed to her this episode; the confrontation with Hiromi, whos in Shin's heart and more importantly, the whole 'Jun' situation, it wasn't all too surprising what happened at the end there(the only thing that would have been worse is if Jun gave a little more than a hint about his relationship with 'him').
I was actually surprised at the amount that I began to like Hiromi after this episode(I liked her before but not as much as I do now), especially after she did after Shin's dance. Side note: I was particularly surprised that this was the first episode that had interaction between Hiromi and Aiko considering that they both are childhood friends of Shin.
Nobuse. . .Nobuse. . . stop trying so hard, you're gonna give someone food poisoning.
My favourite scene in the episode was a basically Aiko's facial reaction to Hiromi saying that she was Shin's girlfriend. It just screamed out to me, "WTF". I think that she may be realizing just how complicated the things around Shin really were. Its actually from the interaction of Shin and Nobuse in this episode that I was able to gather that Shin may have actually had a better relation with Aiko. It seemed like, more than likely, whenever he was in a tight spot or needed someone to talk to, he'd go and talk with Aiko which is why I took it that Nobuse thought it was weird for him to go and talk to him at Aiko's booth.
Shin may be the first harem lead to actually end up alone. For some reason, that just kept going through my head after this episode finished.
I'm really looking forward to watching the first half of next week's episode . . . just before it kicks in that its going to be the last one.
Thoughts on Episode 12... (http://omohide.com/25/true-tears-12/)
Well, as I said earlier, this series has been whispering "pssst we are going to a Hiromi ending" for a long while. Based on the usual trends these shows take, I can see what might end up happening in episode 13. It reminds me a lot of Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien.
I can see that episode 13 may have that same "sad-but-not-tragic" parting of ways with Shin and Noe. There are similar character patterns. Hiromi reminds me a lot of Mitsuki, especially with the insecure, somewhat needy behavior throughout the episode regarding Shin.
Since I personally like the character of Noe, I'll throw out some stuff for you die-hards to feed on, though personally I still think the Hiromi ending is likely. The following is just pure biased optimism and nothing more. The first being that considering the build-up to Shin+Hiromi, it is surprisingly unsatisfying, and that is, in my opinion, because Shin does have real feelings for Noe. Maybe for once, the childhood friend won't be the "victor". Being in the same class and being casual friends since childhood does not necessarily equal a love relationship. In episode 11 & 12, they kiss and spend time together yet there is still the element of untruthfulness, and a barrier.
Next, the old saying of "You don't realize the value of something until it's gone". When Shin & Hiromi are the beach in episode 11, Shin is thinking of Noe. As Shin performs his dance at the festival, he's thinking of Noe as well, and you can see that Hiromi is surprised when she sees that Shin is gazing towards Noe. The festival dance has been an important topic and in the climax of it, which is Shin's performance, the tone is balanced towards Noe and indifferent towards Hiromi. Some people describe Noe as a "minor character" whereas Hiromi and Shin are the leads, I don't really see how that's possible. Ever since the first meeting in episode 1, Noe's presence has affected every episode since the picture book is directly connected to her and has had more effect than the childhood memory or the other "work" which Shin was trying to write.
Another Cliffhanger, and I though all will be resolved on this episode xD
mcruz1014
2008-03-24, 11:43
Has this episode been subbed yet? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.
p.s. Don't send me a link or else you'll get in trouble, just tell me if its been subbed.
That to me sounded like a 'landing in thick bushes' sort of noise. I suspect Noe may be bruised, cut and shaken, but otherwise OK, but this will make Shinichiro realise his feelings even more.
Hiromi's whispered "Don't leave me" was heartbreaking, but what was the significance of the thing she did with her shoe that the small child was gazing at? That probably means something, but I don't know what.
oompa loompa
2008-03-24, 11:48
I hope for Hiromi ending. I have a huge fetish for long hair, and Noe is kinda crazy (stays with chicken, says strange things...) no matter how cute she is!
im with you on that one.. long hair ftw
Check the image thread for the original design of Noe when she had long hair, she looked much better imo.
Some people describe Noe as a "minor character" whereas Hiromi and Shin are the leads, I don't really see how that's possible.
You weren't kidding about the pure biased optimism but aside from that I have never seen a single person (on 6 forums and IRC) say that Noe is a minor character, even people who can't stand her and hope she died after she fell off the tree haven't said that... but hey maybe someone thought that Tomoyo's name was Noe!
Hiromi's whispered "Don't leave me" was heartbreaking, but what was the significance of the thing she did with her shoe that the small child was gazing at? That probably means something, but I don't know what.
Check the episode 10 flashback scene of the festival, notice how Hiromi has one sandal than, notice how Shin held one in his hand to match her, expect a version of that scene next week :)
You weren't kidding about the pure biased optimism
Er...yes, considering that's what I wrote...o_0.....well, actually, it's optimism considering the general structure and trend of these kind of anime shows. I believe the character interpretations themselves are completely valid.
but aside from that I have never seen a single person (on 6 forums and IRC) say that Noe is a minor character
Well, I don't want to single anyone out, but let's just say, as an example, read page four of the "Jun" thread about halfway. (And no, they were not referring to Jun).
Has this episode been subbed yet? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.
p.s. Don't send me a link or else you'll get in trouble, just tell me if its been subbed.
Yes, it already is. Just try a little harder with your Google-fu and you'll find it.
I'm tired and skimming but I can't find it, pm me the post number if you don't want to single them out. Also one single person is a far cry from some people.
ApostleOfGod
2008-03-24, 12:16
Ai wins. :D
That's about how sure I am of who will end up with their dream male. -_-
@ Theowne
I don't know who was claiming that Hiromi was the lead female but they couldn't be more wrong.
Shin and Noe are the main protagonists of True Tears regardless of who Shin ends up with..., Hiromi is a close second female to Noe, but Hiromi is still second on the pecking order of importance to Noe from the plot's perspective. That has nothing to do with pairings; it's just a realization of their roles in the story; just look at the ED when they're walking with Noe in the central lead spot. There has been no indication over the 12 episodes that their roles have switched either..., since the central focus of the latter plot has been this story that Shin is writing for Noe and Shin's dance.
I assume you're talking about jaisrh, but I think you're misinterpreting what he says... (unless you're talking about me). He was saying that he thought the story was about the course that ShinxHiromi travels through, but that's not necessarily ignoring Noe's role in the story. Noe's true tears are still the focus regardless of what the final pairing is...
Deathkillz
2008-03-24, 12:40
That to me sounded like a 'landing in thick bushes' sort of noise. I suspect Noe may be bruised, cut and shaken, but otherwise OK, but this will make Shinichiro realise his feelings even more.
Hiromi's whispered "Don't leave me" was heartbreaking, but what was the significance of the thing she did with her shoe that the small child was gazing at? That probably means something, but I don't know what.
For me it was a "splat" sound. I expect at least a broken arm. (If not a coma :rolleyes:).
and the shoe thing. She took it off as a sign of mental weakness. It is this act which made her feel the connection she shared with Shin and I guess some sort of blind hope that he would come running back to her. The Child only stared at her because she took her shoe off (which is a pretty strange act :/).
@ Theowne
I don't know who was claiming that Hiromi was the lead female but they couldn't be more wrong.
Shin and Noe are the main protagonists of True Tears regardless of who Shin ends up with..., Hiromi is a close second female to Noe, but Hiromi is still second on the pecking order of importance to Noe from the plot's perspective. That has nothing to do with pairings; it's just a realization of their roles in the story; just look at the ED when they're walking with Noe in the central lead spot. There has been no indication over the 12 episodes that their roles have switched either..., since the central focus of the latter plot has been this story that Shin is writing for Noe and Shin's dance.
Theowne said someone said Noe was a minor character, nothing about Hiromi being the lead character. Shin, Noe, Hiromi are obviously main characters, Tomoyo, Nobuse and Shin's parents are minor characters. Depending on your definition of main/minor character you place Aiko and Jun where you want.
As for Noe having the lead spot in the ED i thought it was because Hiromi was the central figure in the first scene of the OP. A swap between the two lead females sorta like how the OP single has Noe on the cover while the ED single has Hiromi on the cover.
Theowne said someone said Noe was a minor character, nothing about Hiromi being the lead character. Shin, Noe, Hiromi are obviously main characters, Tomoyo, Nobuse and Shin's parents are minor characters. Depending on your definition of main/minor character you place Aiko and Jun where you want.
As for Noe having the lead spot in the ED i thought it was because Hiromi was the central figure in the first scene of the OP. A swap between the two lead females sorta like how the OP single has Noe on the cover while the ED single has Hiromi on the cover.
Yeah, I'll give you that; but I don't see any indication anywhere that anyone's labeled Noe as minor... and I guess you haven't either.
I'm still waiting on the PM since he doesn't want to single anyone out :rolleyes: I'm guessing it's a case of him misreading something.
Onizuka-GTO
2008-03-24, 13:41
wow.
after watching dragonaut, which was a horrific accident, pile up of trains, bikes and anything you can think off.
Watching this episode was almost as painful, nothing spectacular, but it was quite a refreshing to actually see a deliberate orchestrated accident.
seeing the vehicles crumple and the bodies fly (literally)
haruhi i hate this episode, the way the main character just seems to IGNORE things, i dunno what's worse, teh BLINDNESS or the teh STUPID.
well, at the leased latter can be amusing.
the former is nothing to laugh about.
w00tness
2008-03-24, 14:12
@ Theowne
I don't know who was claiming that Hiromi was the lead female but they couldn't be more wrong.
Shin and Noe are the main protagonists of True Tears regardless of who Shin ends up with..., Hiromi is a close second female to Noe, but Hiromi is still second on the pecking order of importance to Noe from the plot's perspective. That has nothing to do with pairings; it's just a realization of their roles in the story; just look at the ED when they're walking with Noe in the central lead spot. There has been no indication over the 12 episodes that their roles have switched either..., since the central focus of the latter plot has been this story that Shin is writing for Noe and Shin's dance.
I assume you're talking about jaisrh, but I think you're misinterpreting what he says... (unless you're talking about me). He was saying that he thought the story was about the course that ShinxHiromi travels through, but that's not necessarily ignoring Noe's role in the story. Noe's true tears are still the focus regardless of what the final pairing is...
I would think that both Hiromi and Noe are the leads (uhm, to me it seems kinda obvious, but I dont know how you guys see stuff). I mean, if one was an obvious lead over the other, then the ending would not be so "up in the air" as people think. I used to think that Hiromi was the main lead, and I dont think that thinking was so wrong either. Mainly, if you rewatch the first episode, everything starts with Shins drawings of Hiromi, and how he wanted to make her cry (heh).
Even after the introduction of Noe, I was sure that Hiromi was the main lead, and everything else are just events that would lead to her being together with Shin. However, in the last couple episodes, I realize how strong Shin's feelings for Noe actually are (though I cant help but feel that part of those feelings he has for her stems from guilt), and I have to accept that Noe is very much a main character too.
As for the arguments of who comes first in the ed, or in the op, etc etc. Uhm, those are irrelevant imo.
Thoughts on this episode:
1) <3 Hiromi. I love how she told Ai that shes the girlfriend, and Ai's shocked look was priceless.
2) <3 Jun. I didnt expect this from him, but I guess I underestimated his love for Noe. I thought that he would be able to have better control over his own feelings, but evidently he does not think so, hence he feels he needs to be physically away from Noe till he can get over her. I wonder how Noe will cope with life without him, assuming Shin doesnt choose her. That would be such a bad end for her :'(
3) Im... I dont know what to think of Noe. Once again, the way she handles her problems is not one I can relate to. Carrying a chicken around... hugging her chicken box at home... Singing weird songs... Telling Shins voice in her head to shut up... and jumping off a very tall tree... Nope, you may try to explain however you like about them all being a reflection of her true feelings, but I cannot relate. Good metaphor is like the methaphors employed in ef ~atale of memories. Metaphor in direction and story telling. I can give that Shin's drawings and his personification of them chickens can be employed as good metaphor. But for a person to do such strange things, and expect it to be applauded as metaphor? No.
4) </3 Shin. Very much. Of course, I understand that in a way, his actions this episode are "needed" to ensure that the final pairing stays up in the air in preparation for the grand finale next week, but these same actions are not.. right! In the past, I have applauded this anime as a realistic one, where rationality and logic is second to irrational feeling and emotion. Where the characters all have very real flaws, flaws which cause them to be disliked by others, but beloved by me BECAUSE those very flaws could be rationalized via irrational feelings and emotions. ie: He/she did that because of love. However, I really cannot explain Shins choices anymore, rationally or otherwise.
-He finds Noe but doesnt talk to her (About anything, youve been looking for her all over, talk to her, bring her home? Didnt you want to talk to her about the picture book? Dont just leave her there?).
-His conversations with Hiromi. You know, by -now- you -should- have a pretty good idea on who you want to choose right? I dont see you going "Oh who should I choose..." in your daydreams anymore... If youre going to be with her, dont be so... meh (for lack of a better word) with her after your dance. If you dont want to be with her, dont accept her help in dressing up, or at least dont accept it so naturally. Normal friends dont do stuff like that. The ONLY reason for you to treat her the way youre treating her is to keep the viewers undecided on the final pairing, and imo that takes a lot away from the realism of the anime.
-His obsession with the picture book and how Noe made him draw it. Noe fans make a huge deal about this, but I would like to point out that all this while his goal was to draw Hiromi, his problem was in his drawings Hiromi was always crying, but in real life she was not, and that made him want to make Hiromi cry (heh). The chicken book was something he started later to make Noe happy, and something that made him happy too over time as Noe gave him encouragement on it. However the part that made me upset was how he credited Noe with making him draw, but forgot to mention that he was drawing in the first place because of Hiromi. Sure, Noe gave you encouragement, but you never gave Hiromi the chance to give you encouragement anyway.
Ok. I wrote a wall of text. Sorry.
tldr: I hate Shin.
...
tldr: I hate Shin.
I guess I can concede to you on the first point; I think it's fine to see Hiromi and Noe as equals or to see Noe as possibly slightly more important than Hiromi or vice versa even I suppose. You're right that there are arguments that can be made for any of those 3 views and perhaps none is really wrong. Personally, I just think there are indications that regardless of the final pairing, I think Noe's true tears makes her slightly more important than Hiromi but I think it's a nuance more to how I view the show than to anything proveable.
In any case, I finally managed to watch it in an understandable form, and I too have come around to liking Jun a lot more than I did in the previous episodes.
I was going to drop him into the villain category if he had gone after Hiromi, but I think he redeemed himself by finally being honest to himself.
Shin, on the other hand, has really fallen because I have no idea what he meant by "doing things properly" anymore, since he hasn't really done that at all and now we have to wait till episode 13 to see what he finally plans to do.
Apparently by "doing things properly" he meant (as of now): I'm going to waffle around (like every other worthless harem lead) until we reach the point of no return and Noe has tried to jump/fly off of a tree. I'm still holding out hope that he can redeem himself somehow, but we'll have to wait on that for next week.
Onizuka-GTO
2008-03-24, 14:34
I think in the episode shin has pretty much realised he hasn't done "things properly" which is why we see him in a self-loathing and depressed state, metaphorically trying to hide from his emotional conflict (shouting in the futon storage space) and the lack of action on his part.
so in the end he gives up, and focus on the one thing he has to do...the festival dance.
but then he start thinking of the silly book, to the point he ignores hiromi, his selfishness is quite evident here.
right now, it has only been hiromi who's been on the attack, shin just been going for the ride.
it only takes radical situation for him to actually act, right now, Noe has force his hand.
But i suspect that Hiromi will be doing something radical as well, just to get his attention.
it's a bit like a badly trained dog, to only get attention from the master for any sort of positive appraisal the girls are all going barking mad since they realised it's the only thing that makes him turn his head.
:rolleyes:
I thought the Jun/Noe scene was handled very well. I couldn't imagine how they could portray the scene without it being horribly awkward and strange but they did it in a natural and sensitive way, and Jun came off better for it.
AznSoulBoy
2008-03-24, 14:44
In the previous episode when Hiromi kissed Shin, a certain number of people were like, yay!
In this episode when Shin said he knew from the bottom of his heart Noe was the reason for him to draw and we could see her image reflected in his eyes, the same certain number of people state that Shin is simply going to dump/"take care of" Noe before going back to Hiromi, and complain about the writers being evil.
WHATEVER.
I realise how dumb it is. I shall try my best to refrain from such behavior from now on (in case I was ever like that)
Well, it's been a while I didn't post a comment here even I've read all the comments. I was kinda too lazy since I post my comments in RC.
First, we are not that happy when Hiromi kissed Shin. Yeah sure it was unexpected but it was kinda awkward. He wasn't really shocked and he was still thinking about Noe. How could we be like yay!?
My position was neutral but right after they've developped more about Hiromi and after what happened in episode 10. I'm rooting for Hiromi now.
Episode 10 was the episode for Hiromi fan that we went like yay? lol.
I still like Noe though, but she's acting too weird like someone said earlier (singing,taking the chicken...etc.) At first, it was cute now it's kinda *meh. I still like the song though, I laugh at this song each time I heard it.
and I agreed with everything u said wootness.
Also, this episode was heartbreaking when Hiromi said "dont leave me behind" it was kinda ouch. I feel a little of hatred toward Shin. Since he is in "depressing state" and thinking about that damn book lol. I feel really bad for her after what she has been through now Shin has the opportunity to be with her but that damn guy must be "meh " with her. Arghh, my tension is going up. I will stop talking about him. Wootness said everything I want to say about him lol.
anyway, good luck for both sides.
I would laugh my ass off if shin ends up alone. I just want a good ending. I don't really care if he will end up with Noe. Sure, I want Hiromi ending though.
Oh, someone said "for once childhood friend will lose" something like that. Well unfortunately, childhood friend always loses in harem series =(.
Btw, Hiromi kinda reminds me of Kotonoha when she laughs or when she is like O.O. lol.
Vulcannis
2008-03-24, 15:04
I also think that Jun intentionally stopped and paused before kissing Noe, as he was just trying to show her what he was really talking about. Since she wasn't understanding his explanation. More interesting though was that he started explaining the whole contract thing with Shin but then caught himself. I wonder how the rest of the day would have gone if Noe had that additional burden?
The first really unexpected point of the episode for me was when Hiromi was musing with Shin about the best place to watch his dance from. He replied something along the lines of it not mattering, at which point my jaw dropped in disbelief. The shot of Hiromi's stiff, speechless reaction was well done.
Yah know, I'm really starting to get tired of all the whole melodrama due to the romantic leads simply failing to talk to each other. I first got irked by it in Bokura ga Ita, but it's one of those anime staples that needs to die. Feh. It seems Shin hasn't explained jack to Hiromi, and the so-called drama that results is real stale. I've really enjoyed TT, and like most of the characters and their portrayal, but Shin's recent behaviour should have stayed in the cliche garbage bin.
Yah know, I'm really starting to get tired of all the whole melodrama due to the romantic leads simply failing to talk to each other. I first got irked by it in Bokura ga Ita, but it's one of those anime staples that needs to die.
This is what I don't quite understand. I still have no clue why Hiromi didn't just dispel the rumors about Jun in episode 11. What could she have possibly lost by doing so? Similarly, if Shin is actually chasing Noe to try and bring her down gently and break up, then why doesn't he say so to Hiromi? What is there to lose by doing so? If we assume he wants to be with Hiromi and knows as such, then it seems that telling Hiromi that he feels he has to finish things properly with Noe first would seem much better than what he did, which is lie and make it obvious he was lying. That just creates a much bigger suspicion. The choice to lie about it would suggest that Shin hasn't made up his mind yet.
Reckoner
2008-03-24, 15:31
There is just so much to say regarding this episode! Wall of text approaching...
From the beginning of True Tears, I've always been dead certain that it was going to be a Hiromi X Shinchiro ending. This is due to the large amount of harem shows I've seen in the past, and my experience with them. This show has managed to do the unexpected to me though and prove that it is being slightly unorthodox in its approach. I thought when Aiko kissed Shinchiro and when Noe became Shinchiro's girlfriend, that was it, and they were screwed over. But with what happened over the last 3-4 episodes, the writers have created a huge cloud of doubt. I'm now actually sure that Noe is going to win (Which I'll be happy about since Hiromi has proven to be unlikeable to me) and this is a nice change from your average harem show.
I think people have been pretty much describing very well why everything is pointing to Noe at this point. The picture book is a mirror image of Shinchiro's life. He writes about how Raigomaru wants to fly, his relationship with Noe, and then suddenly how Raigomaru loses his desire to fly, when he gets closer to Hiromi, and now he is finishing his story with Raigomaru flying, he chased after Noe. I couldn't believe that I haven't caught this till this episode. I think if it truly is a Noe ending, it was beautifully done. (Also the only girl Shinchiro hasn't kissed on the lips yet, and the only girl yet to have cried is Noe after all...)
Now in regards to certain things that happened in this episode.
Jun actually came out with his sister complex, which although it was pretty obvious that it did exist, I never would have thought that he would come out with it to Noe directly. I thought perhaps he would let Shinchiro know that this was the reason behind his actions up to this point. I must say, the scene was intense, and Jun cried!
Hiromi goes up to Noe and tells her to stay away because she has finally managed to see eye to eye with Shinchiro. This is perhaps the best example of why I dislike Hiromi as a person. She's just plain mean. Why is such a comment warranted? In this respect, she is just like Shinchiro's Mom in the beginning.
Shinchrio visiting Nobuse at the stand. I found this scene quite funny, seriously what is Shinchrio doing :heh:.
Shinchiro's resolution in the closet. I don't know why people think that he is being redundant in his cause. He is just realizing that he only thought he was making everything right by going towards Hiromi and ignoring Noe and such, but he really hasn't done anything. Unlike the last time he made his resolution, this didn't seem to be made on impulse, but rather on observation of his circumstances. I think this especially appropriate considering people do this in real life all the time. For example, I say that this school semester I'm going to improve my grades, but they don't improve because I haven't changed anything and then I realize this and actually decide to make appropriate changes. I found this very easy to relate to myself, perhaps others have not.
Now we have all of Noe's actions in this episode leading to the jump! She realized at the beginning that the chicken didn't fly because it chose not to. This is in direct reference to Shinchiro and he knew it too. Noe is gone and confused the entire time about her feelings, she just can't seem to get Shinchiro out of her heart. She is further confused when Jun expresses himself to her in an unexpected way. Poor Noe feels she doesn't understand anything and starts to feel alone in the world as even her brother seemingly is leaving her. With the world seemingly crashing down on her emotionally, she takes the opportunity to try and fly away from the tree, but yea... I think she'll be all right though, and there is definitely going to be some therapy sessions next episode.
This episode I thought just follows the course of the story that the writers have intended since the beginning. Unlike the monstrosity that was Myself;Yourself, this is a coherent storyline. I give this episode a 9.5, but for rounding up purposes I rated it a 10 in the poll.
I don't know what to say about all the Shinchiro hate going around in this thread though. Especially those of you who have been comparing him to the legendary Makoto of School Days, he is seriously no where close to being there. I would agree with you if he decided to rape Noe in the snow there, but that is not likely...
First of all, I would just need to ask you people who hate Shinchiro why you would want whoever you're shipping with in this show to be with him. That's quite cruel don't you think? To leave your beloved character with someone who you hate... Perhaps you should say that you're frustrated with some of his actions like others, not actually hate him if that is the case. I can understand if people are frustrated with him as he clearly shows indecisiveness, but I would often wonder if you guys yourselves are very decisive and if you are criticizing Shinchiro because he is being too real of a character. Well that is pretty much all I have to say regarding him.
My biggest worry for next episode is if they are going to manage to clear everything up. Some other animes (Again I'll refer to Myself;Yourself) copped out on the end with a time skip or some other fantastic plot movement and nothing really was said regarding all the dilemmas they created. Next episode is surely going to be tightly packed with action.
True Tears has one more episode to go before I truly consider it great, so I'll cross my fingers as I wait expectingly for a satisfying ending to what has been up to this point a beautifully constructed anime.
AznSoulBoy
2008-03-24, 16:20
oh yah, forgot to say that.
What relentlessflame said about
"in my mind, you were always crying...etc."
I completly forgot about that and I think because of this Hiromi might still have a chance somehow...
However, like someone posted in RC "whomever declares themselves as someone’s boyfriend/girlfriend never ends up with the main guy/girl"
and that's freaking true. So that's the main reason why I think it will be Noe ending.
w00tness
2008-03-24, 16:26
*snip*
Hiromi goes up to Noe and tells her to stay away because she has finally managed to see eye to eye with Shinchiro. This is perhaps the best example of why I dislike Hiromi as a person. She's just plain mean. Why is such a comment warranted? In this respect, she is just like Shinchiro's Mom in the beginning.
*snip*
First of all, I would just need to ask you people who hate Shinchiro why you would want whoever you're shipping with in this show to be with him. That's quite cruel don't you think? To leave your beloved character with someone who you hate... Perhaps you should say that you're frustrated with some of his actions like others, not actually hate him if that is the case. I can understand if people are frustrated with him as he clearly shows indecisiveness, but I would often wonder if you guys yourselves are very decisive and if you are criticizing Shinchiro because he is being too real of a character. Well that is pretty much all I have to say regarding him.
First point: How is Hiromi being mean? Shin accepted her kiss without protest (compare that to Ai's kiss), and Shin has given no indication that he does not love Hiromi. His thoughts of Noe are just that. Thoughts. Hiromi cant read minds. Hiromi is convinced she is the girlfriend, or she at least wants to convince herself that. As the girlfriend, should she say "Hi Noe, I know you love Shin very much, and maybe Shin likes you too, lets have some tea together so that Shin can see more of your cute face, and maybe he'll decide to choose you instead of me. *smile* if that happens ill just accept it nicely and be happy for you two from the bottom of my heart!" Tbh, im very happy with how Hiromi talks with Noe. She is as selfish as a girlfriend should be of her boyfriend, yet I do not sense any btchy "HAH I won, gtfo Noe" tones from her
Second point: Uhm, im not upset with Shin because my ship is sinking, youre right that I am upset about his indecisiveness, but I cannot agree that his indecisiveness makes him more "real". Sure, in the beginning, being indecisive is natural, however, how many episodes ago did he say he would do everything properly? How many days (in the anime) ago was that? Its been at least a few days, Hiromi has had to move out, settle in, the beach scene, the looking for Noe night, the Mugiha night.. I dont know about you, but if I say im going to do everything properly, especially with eyes full of determination (oh yes, they were!) as Hiromi lay panting on me :love:, I would do something, but nooooo.... In episode 12, as you said, he once again made a decision, and once again showed very determined eyes, and the audience is like, yes! He's decided, one way or another, clear things up! But then the NEXT SCENE of him is what? Him dozing off because he didnt have enough sleep? How cute. Hiromi's here, with you alone. You were pretty determined last night, like her or not, here's the chance to clear things up. But noooooooooooooooooo. After the dance, oh you looked pretty determined. Looking for Noe? Clearing things up soon? Awesome! Look its Hiromi, if you like her, let her know youre gonna clear things up with Noe. If you dont like her, let her know that, THEN go after Noe. Isnt that the natural thing to do IF you wanted to do everything properly? But nooooooo. How are these decisions making him a "real" character? Like I said before. This need to keep the audience in suspense and maximise melodrama is taking AWAY from the realism.
i just wonder how shin will deal with noe's predicament at the end of ep 12 and still make it back on time to find hiromi.
i just wonder how shin will deal with noe's predicament at the end of ep 12 and still make it back on time to find hiromi.
I'm wondering how seriously injured Noe is. Namely, are they going to have a long immediate discussion/resolution right there or will she be taken to the hospital, maybe unconscious, and then have the conversation later. The second situation is a possibility for a Noe ending in the small likelihood that one would occur.
Reckoner
2008-03-24, 17:14
First point: How is Hiromi being mean? Shin accepted her kiss without protest (compare that to Ai's kiss), and Shin has given no indication that he does not love Hiromi. His thoughts of Noe are just that. Thoughts. Hiromi cant read minds. Hiromi is convinced she is the girlfriend, or she at least wants to convince herself that. As the girlfriend, should she say "Hi Noe, I know you love Shin very much, and maybe Shin likes you too, lets have some tea together so that Shin can see more of your cute face, and maybe he'll decide to choose you instead of me. *smile* if that happens ill just accept it nicely and be happy for you two from the bottom of my heart!" Tbh, im very happy with how Hiromi talks with Noe. She is as selfish as a girlfriend should be of her boyfriend, yet I do not sense any btchy "HAH I won, gtfo Noe" tones from her
Second point: Uhm, im not upset with Shin because my ship is sinking, youre right that I am upset about his indecisiveness, but I cannot agree that his indecisiveness makes him more "real". Sure, in the beginning, being indecisive is natural, however, how many episodes ago did he say he would do everything properly? How many days (in the anime) ago was that? Its been at least a few days, Hiromi has had to move out, settle in, the beach scene, the looking for Noe night, the Mugiha night.. I dont know about you, but if I say im going to do everything properly, especially with eyes full of determination (oh yes, they were!) as Hiromi lay panting on me :love:, I would do something, but nooooo.... In episode 12, as you said, he once again made a decision, and once again showed very determined eyes, and the audience is like, yes! He's decided, one way or another, clear things up! But then the NEXT SCENE of him is what? Him dozing off because he didnt have enough sleep? How cute. Hiromi's here, with you alone. You were pretty determined last night, like her or not, here's the chance to clear things up. But noooooooooooooooooo. After the dance, oh you looked pretty determined. Looking for Noe? Clearing things up soon? Awesome! Look its Hiromi, if you like her, let her know youre gonna clear things up with Noe. If you dont like her, let her know that, THEN go after Noe. Isnt that the natural thing to do IF you wanted to do everything properly? But nooooooo. How are these decisions making him a "real" character? Like I said before. This need to keep the audience in suspense and maximise melodrama is taking AWAY from the realism.
1: While Shinchiro never did do anything about the kiss like Aiko's kiss, it's not like he said "Hiromi you're my girlfriend" in words. His inability to say anything at that scene is just part of his character, he doesn't know what to do. So if Hiromi convinces herself that she is the new girlfriend, she should realize that he hasn't made a commitment anywhere at anytime to be with her. Regardless, if Hiromi wants to clarify that Shinchiro loves her and not Noe, fine, that's not why I thought she is mean. I think she is mean because of how she approached the matter though. Going up to Noe and saying "STAY AWAY cus HE's DEFINTELY mine!!" is not mature or nice. I'm not expecting her to treat Noe like a friend, but she is being very rude and insincere.
2: Ok I'll give you that, he is not making the so called changes yet, but I do believe we will see his resolution in the next episode. I'm pretty sure the love triangle will get fixed and everything will be fine and dandy. Still, it doesn't take away from the realism of his character I think, as it stays consistent with the character we've been presented with thus far. Over extending the melodrama? I'll agree to disagree on that. I've actually enjoyed watching Shinchiro develop over all these episodes.
I used to like Shin a lot but now I hate him :rolleyes:. He really needs to learn to focus on one girl :rolleyes:.
I'm wondering how seriously injured Noe is. Namely, are they going to have a long immediate discussion/resolution right there or will she be taken to the hospital, maybe unconscious, and then have the conversation later. The second situation is a possibility for a Noe ending in the small likelihood that one would occur.
i think that noe will tell shin the truth and urge him to hiromi regardless of the severity of her injury after he alerts others to take care of her. hiromi wont wait several hours in that forest path for him so he cant waste too much time finishing up with noe.
i think that noe will tell shin the truth and urge him to hiromi regardless of the severity of her injury after he alerts others to take care of her. hiromi wont wait several hours in that forest path for him so he cant waste too much time finishing up with noe.
So you're thinking the slipper thing is going to result in a literally identical recreation of their childhood memory? I'm not sure that situation would be likely, given what's happened.
From the beginning of True Tears, I've always been dead certain that it was going to be a Hiromi X Shinchiro ending.
I believe it still hasn't veered off from its due course! Have faith in Noe.. the heroine of this show. :)
Hiromi goes up to Noe and tells her to stay away because she has finally managed to see eye to eye with Shinchiro. This is perhaps the best example of why I dislike Hiromi as a person. She's just plain mean. Why is such a comment warranted? In this respect, she is just like Shinchiro's Mom in the beginning.
Guess when people are aggressive? One answer is when they are afraid of the uncertainty. Hiromi is afraid of the possibility that Shin will not choose to be with her. The comment was warranted from her perspective considering how much she fears of loosing Shin to Noe.
Yes, indeed, Hiromi is just like Shin's mom. :) I truly haven't found a single character that I could dislike from this show (unless, of course, we are counting the chicken as a character. I have this silly urge to eat it everytime its on screen.)
My biggest worry for next episode is if they are going to manage to clear everything up.
It should! Considering the only resolution that needs to be reached by involving Shinchiro is Noe's. Ai merely needs a closure. Nobuse is there to give it. Hiromi was finally able to declare her feelings for Shin's with that kiss in the beach once it became clear Shin and Hiromi aren't siblings. She will get her closure when Shin will come to her. And that to happen, Noe needs to find her tears. Again, Shin should be the one to help her find them. Twenty minutes should be plenty of time to clear up most of the major points (unless you have one more thing in mind like Pelli and me :cool: ).
First of all, I would just need to ask you people who hate Shinchiro why you would want whoever you're shipping with in this show to be with him. That's quite cruel don't you think? To leave your beloved character with someone who you hate... Perhaps you should say that you're frustrated with some of his actions like others, not actually hate him if that is the case. I can understand if people are frustrated with him as he clearly shows indecisiveness, but I would often wonder if you guys yourselves are very decisive and if you are criticizing Shinchiro because he is being too real of a character. Well that is pretty much all I have to say regarding him.
Hah! The few cookies you see in your profile were handed due to this very insightful portion of your post. :)
DragoonKain3
2008-03-24, 18:06
^
In regards to the last quoted quote... I personally don't care how bad the couple are together, as long as they're childhood friends I will most probably will ship them together. I just can't help it as it's my absolute moe element, and me trying to explain that would be like me trying to explain why I like RPGs the best. That is, I would ship NaruXKeitaro (early divorce if I've ever seen one :p) over any other couple other than MutsuhimeXKeitaro, just on the strength of the two being friends in childhood. Thankfully, that's the only example I can think of looking down my Big List of Shows Where Osana-Najimi Appeared (TM), as usually is the case the vast majority of the time, the childhood friend IS the one most suited for the protagonist IMO.
Also, shipping is not the act of liking a character the best, but the act of rooting (or just wanting to happen) for a certain couple to be together. For example, 'I ship KotomiXTomoya in Clannad' makes sense. 'I ship Kotomi in Clannad' does not. While at least one (if not both) of the characters are usually the favourites of a person and thus is the most common reason why a particular person ships they way they do, there are times when that isn't the case. An example would be me, as I like Youhei and Kyou the best in Clannad, but my only ship there is KotomiXTomoya. So yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean that if you ship a certain way, that you actually like the characters in question the best (or even if at all).
In regards to Shinichiro's indecisiveness, I neither like it nor dislike it, nor do I think it should be detrimental to the judgement of a character if he/she ever was one. I'm not even frustrated by it, nor do I think I ever was in any show. It's a fact of most anime romances, and the exceptions are rare to be seen. As such, I've learned to live with it since I would be very frequently dealing with it. My only beef with it (as small as it is) is that it's overused and as such leads to many unoriginal characters, but if originality was so commonplace, nothing would be original at all lol. XD
Well unfortunately, childhood friend always loses in harem series =(.
Don't let me get started again. :heh:
Actually, maybe I will, since this will be short. First off, definition of harem greatly varies from person to person (if the Clannad debate is of any indication), so let's take a third party database that actually lists harem as a genre in order to avoid arguements on that end. First one that comes to mind is anidb.net, but I'm willing to use another database as I don't think the results will change.
Ai Yori Aoshi
w wish
Gift
Soul Link
Love Hina
Da Capo
Futakoi
Kage Kara Mamoru
Sumomo*
Kenichi*
Kanon*
School Rumble* (lol forgot this in the original list, as the flute faction is going strong in the manga last time I heard)
Comic Party Revolution*
ONE*
Umishou*
x- Ichigo 100%
x- shuffle
x- Clannad(don't shoot the messenger, as anidb DOES list is as such :p)
x- seto no hanayome*
x- Magikano*
x- I''s pure*
x- Canvas 2*
Ones marked in * are in the general harem list of anidb but don't have the harem label in their own respective general information page of that series.
9/12 (15/22 if you use the general list), or 75% (68%), which is close to the total average of 70% from 2000-2007 and as such within statistical error. So yeah, harem shows are nothing special when it comes to usual childhood friends win rate... it's just that particular show with THAT yandere has forever tainted the archetype with the illusion that they usually lose, as their few losses are so much more spectacular than the flashiness of their wins combined in any genre. :rolleyes:
Not that anything of the above has to do with the win chance of Hiromi right now...
Whitemoon648
2008-03-24, 18:15
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Hope nothing happens to her :upset: . Stupid hiromi. I hate her.
I used to like Shin a lot but now I hate him :rolleyes:. He really needs to learn to focus on one girl :rolleyes:.
He never said , he loves Hiromi or anything. He just said i will do everything properly. So basically Hiromi had loved him for a long time but he never answered those feelings. He left her hanging. Well one can blame hiromi too. She was always cold and wasnt direct. In a way Shin wouldnt be able to realize it.
So doing properly would mean he would think everything over and decide who he loves. I mean He really didnt ditch Noe eaither. Noe was the one that suddenly left by herself. And Hiromi was the one that assumed ( forced) herself on him by kissing him. Shin has yet done anything wrong. He turned down Aie, and was confused of who he wants to be and thought it over.
I dont think any one here should be hated, But if any one was to be hated would be Hiromi. She forced herself on him and said some selfish things without considering Shin's, Aie and Noe's feelings.
This is a complete diffrent case than Mikoto in school days guys. Shin has not yet made a decision. Its not like He is swapping girls like Mikoto. So you cant really blame the poor guy.
I believe it still hasn't veered off from its due course! Have faith in Noe.. the heroine of this show. :)
Guess when people are aggressive? One answer is when they are afraid of the uncertainty. Hiromi is afraid of the possibility that Shin will not choose to be with her. The comment was warranted from her perspective considering how much she fears of loosing Shin to Noe.
Yes, indeed, Hiromi is just like Shin's mom. :)
That sums it up perfectly as how and why Hiromi acting the way she is :cool:.
(unless you have one more thing in mind like Pelli and me :cool: ).
What would that be *_*?
@ Reckoner
I think this might have been covered; it's not that anyone really hates Shin.
It's that the benefit of the doubt that a lot of people had given to him for claiming that he would do things properly has evaporated over the past few episodes.
I don't think the viewers should have to wait for Noe to start making desperate moves for Shin to finally be forced into action. He states that he's going to be proactive and it never materializes; instead he's forced into action because Noe starts doing crazy things, i.e. with Jibeta in ep 11 and at the end of ep 12...
That's really the main complaint; they set it up for Shin to resolve everything peacefully, and he's being forced to act rather than doing it of his own will in some sense (not to mention that he's missing clues being dropped all over the place in 11-12).
I think as viewers it is a part of our duty to determine how well the characters are acting within certain bounds like the expectations that they set for themselves.
It's not really hate; it's disappointment that it really had to reach the peaks of melodrama before Shin stopped taking things for granted.
To be fair, I would in fact NOT be disappointed if he had not made the preposterous claim that he would be proactive.
instead he's forced into action because Noe starts doing crazy things, i.e. with Jibeta in ep 11 and at the end of ep 12...
Just thought I'd point out that Noe climbing the tree didn't force Shin to find her - whatever his "decision" is, he made it during his dance and went out to find her himself. So he wasn't exactly forced to act in this case.
Deathkillz
2008-03-24, 19:05
Don't let me get started again. :heh:
Yes, please don't start it again. Or you can make a topic about it in the general anime section :rolleyes:
He never said , he loves Hiromi or anything. He just said i will do everything properly. So basically Hiromi had loved him for a long time but he never answered those feelings. He left her hanging. Well one can blame hiromi too. She was always cold and wasnt direct. In a way Shin wouldnt be able to realize it.
So doing properly would mean he would think everything over and decide who he loves. I mean He really didnt ditch Noe eaither. Noe was the one that suddenly left by herself. And Hiromi was the one that assumed ( forced) herself on him by kissing him. Shin has yet done anything wrong. He turned down Aie, and was confused of who he wants to be and thought it over.
I dont think any one here should be hated, But if any one was to be hated would be Hiromi. She forced herself on him and said some selfish things without considering Shin's, Aie and Noe's feelings.
This is a complete diffrent case than Mikoto in school days guys. Shin has not yet made a decision. Its not like He is swapping girls like Mikoto. So you cant really blame the poor guy.
Sorry...but doing it proper for me means that he will not fck up again. And guess what? He fcked up.
He knows full well that Hiromi love him. And himself in a sense knows that he loves her. If that wasn't the case then why did he break his back chasing her on that crappy bike on an icy road?
The fact is that he loves her but then suffers from amnesia and now believes that he wants sexy time with Noe :rolleyes:
Seriously, what he is doing now isn't proper at all. You said that he never told Hiromi that he loves her...but dammit does their action need to be justified with words already? Now why did Shin accept the kiss from Hiromi? Why didn't he question her motive for kissing him...I'm sure he is a good enough boy to say so.
And I say that thinking about it makes me relation him to makoto more and more.
Makoto never decided, oh no. He only screwed them. He never told kotonoha to break up (so by you logic it would be the same with Shin and Hiromi (and yes, I do believe that their feelings for each other are already mutual). Shin said nothing, he just left for Noe).
Funny how Hiromi is also breaking down...
"Don't leave me" ehh :rolleyes:
Just thought I'd point out that Noe climbing the tree didn't force Shin to find her - whatever his "decision" is, he made it during his dance and went out to find her himself. So he wasn't exactly forced to act in this case.
Yeah, I was refering to the incident at the end of 11/beginning of 12, which forced him to realize that he wasn't really doing anything proactive and hurting everyone involved (the one involving Jibeta, I mentioned it in that statement).
The Noe climbing the tree incident followed from there which is why I included it after as another example of a desperate action.
I figured the above was obvious enough to not include specific chronology in my post.
Weisheit
2008-03-24, 19:48
i was just wondering, after 13 is out, how many people are going to directly skip to the last 5 minutes of the show, find out what's there, and then start over again
cuz i'm gonna do that, this whole suspense thing is killing me now
i was just wondering, after 13 is out, how many people are going to directly skip to the last 5 minutes of the show, find out what's there, and then start over again
cuz i'm gonna do that, this whole suspense thing is killing me now
Yeah, and we'll get to see how many people rate the last episode with 1's or 10's just because of the ending for their girl...
I will predict....many. I usually wait a few pages before posting in these threads anyways, seems like the first few pages are always people screaming about whether their preferred relationship is favored or not. This will probably be compounded when it's the last episode.
Incest!!!
Jun nearly kissed Noe on mouth!!!
DeotoxSlayer
2008-03-24, 20:28
Incest!!!
Jun nearly kissed Noe on mouth!!!
erm....yeah that was said in the first page:heh::heh::heh:
Incest!!!
Jun nearly kissed Noe on mouth!!!
Not much of a surprise, we've been expecting such a thing since episode 4 or 5. Right..?
Reckoner
2008-03-24, 20:46
Guess when people are aggressive? One answer is when they are afraid of the uncertainty. Hiromi is afraid of the possibility that Shin will not choose to be with her. The comment was warranted from her perspective considering how much she fears of loosing Shin to Noe.
Well that explains why she reacted that way, but I still feel bad that Noe was on the receiving end of that. Hiromi only contributed to her eventual jump at the end. But, it's not that I dislike the character, but rather the person. I don't even know how to explain it :p The character is well constructed and portrayed, but I still think she is acts mean to others, especially Shinchiro at the beginning of this series. But I can forgive her since she's in emotional turmoil after all...
(unless, of course, we are counting the chicken as a character. I have this silly urge to eat it everytime its on screen.)
poor chicken =(
It should!
I'll take your word for it!
(unless you have one more thing in mind like Pelli and me :cool: ).
What may that be? :uhoh:
Also, shipping is not the act of liking a character the best, but the act of rooting (or just wanting to happen) for a certain couple to be together
That seems quite silly to me lol. Ok, but I would at least THINK that people supporting a couple usually like the characters in question.
In regards to Shinichiro's indecisiveness, I neither like it nor dislike it, nor do I think it should be detrimental to the judgement of a character if he/she ever was one. I'm not even frustrated by it, nor do I think I ever was in any show. It's a fact of most anime romances, and the exceptions are rare to be seen. As such, I've learned to live with it since I would be very frequently dealing with it. My only beef with it (as small as it is) is that it's overused and as such leads to many unoriginal characters, but if originality was so commonplace, nothing would be original at all lol. XD
Well Shinchiro has always seemed better than the average indecisive male lead because we actually get to look into his own thoughts throughout the show whereas in other shows like Shakugan no Shana, the male lead doesn't even have a logical reason for not going completely one way or into the other. Shinchiro seems to be a victim of the hate stereotype out there in shows because there are just so many indecisive males...
@ Reckoner
I think this might have been covered; it's not that anyone really hates Shin.
<snip>
It's not really hate; it's disappointment that it really had to reach the peaks of melodrama before Shin stopped taking things for granted.
To be fair, I would in fact NOT be disappointed if he had not made the preposterous claim that he would be proactive.
Ok, understood. But as viewers we should always understand their situations as if you were in them. I wouldn't go up to Hiromi saying "Yo I realized I like this girl now, so tough, see ya." This is a close person to you obviously who you don't want to hurt and it would be very hard to actually go through with this.
Also, people often never react to anything until it hits them in the face. An extreme example is the bombing of Pearl Harbor in WWII, a more relative one is not paying attention to your lover until you find he/she is cheating on you.
If this incest action suddenly surprised you than you really shouldn't be calling things average when you can't even pick up something that's been obvious since Jun put the helmet on Noe and longingly wanted to caress her face. Everything he did since than was all for Noe, we didn't need Hiromi's words in episode 11 to figure that out, it was obvious.
His incestuous feelings at the start of the anime never really got out of hand. I'm surprised at how quickly things came to a head.
The series knows where it's going, it's the majority of the fan base who don't. I'm probably one of the top Hiromi and Shin shippers on AS but even to someone as biased as me I knew after 10 it would go back to Noe before a true resolution was reached.
The fact that the series started out Hiromi-centric, then moved to Noe with a dash of Aiko, then back to Hiromi, and now back to Noe on the next-to-last episode means either the writers aren't very good, or the writers don't know where they want to go. Plot twists for the sake of drama can only go so far.
She's talking in the next episode preview.
Just because she's talking, doesn't mean she's not suffering from a mortal injury.
And why are you so shocked about this?
None of the characters in this series have been the emotionally strong type. And it was a matter of time til Jun brokedown and revealed the truth. I was in the group who called for him being incestrious towards Noe. Ever since the helmet scene we knew that he wasn't just a big brother towards Noe, and pretty much saw him walking down that line. Don't know about koi kaze but I can see who the next makoto wannabe is :rolleyes:
Hiromi for the first half was pretty frigid. She only became a softy after the end of episode 10. Jun's been a cold, calculating person ever since his deal with Shin. Do you really think someone who's emotionally strong can strike a deal like that?
Because it doesn't make any sense. How crazy Shin felt for Hiromi to being able to "obtain her" and then going off to Noe. He could have at least shown some consideration but the dam closet resolution didn't kick in for Hiromi at all. "I will do everything proper" my butt :rolleyes:
I don't think they are allowing the fanbase to do anything, but rather going into a messy plot with no land on either side.
(M;Y wasn't a cop out for me but lets not go there :heh:).
Again, the writers don't know what they're doing, or they're destroying the plot for the sake of drama. I actually think the chance for each pairing is about 50/50 now. I might head over to the speculation thread later...which for this anime is somewhat like a lottery thread.
I have to disagree with you on most of this. Jun's actions have been 100% consistent throughout the show. He has only cared for Noe; every single action Jun has undertaken can be tied to Noe's well-being (yes, including helping Hiromi for show at the basketball game "for the good of the contract"). Jun's affection for Noe was never really masked as much as you might have not been paying attention to the hints or something. It was clear from a mile away that Jun felt nothing for Hiromi and possibly something more for Noe from early on, which is nowhere near as sudden a twist as you indicate.
If he didn't feel anything for Hiromi, and all his actions have all been a part of the play he put on for the sake of Shin, then his breakdown in this episode would be even more out of place. For the record, I think Jun does care about Hiromi, just maybe not as much as he does for Noe, or just not in that way.
You seem to be judging True Tears as "average" based on a conjecture about the last episode that we haven't seen yet. For all we know, episode 13 might end up making Shin at least almost as consistent as Jun, so I have no idea why you're using a hypothetical basis for that kind of conjecture. If episode 13 ends up with his feelings in a different place from episode 10, then you are correct, but that is nowhere near the given that you seem to be taking it as..., and even if it does, the show has done a good job of creating the situation that whatever pops up in 13 will not seem like a farfetched twist.
Yes, but the problem is, whichever pairing the show ends up with will be "inconsistent" in some sense. Harem shows have a tendency to have the protagonist decide who he'll spend the rest of his life with in the last episode; hence, True Tears being "average". If Shin ends up with Noe, then all the rhetoric about Hiromi's tears, the first ~7 episodes, and their romp in the snow and the kiss would have all been for nothing. If Shin ends up with Hiromi, then his profession of his love for Noe in the snow, several of the beginning episodes, and the last two episodes would have been for naught.
Of course, I'll pass final judgement on the series after the last episode. Who knows? Maybe the writers will come up with something to astound us. But somehow, I doubt that.
As I said before around episode 10 on here, there has been no new plot introduction since that episode. We already knew that the Raigomaru/Jibeta story would converge with the dance that Shin was preparing for in the final act. The only plot line that was inconclusive was Shin's mother; pretty much every viewer is unhappy with how that one went. There was no real basis given and no satisfactory conclusion to that plot line, but other than that single plot line, I think most of the story has been dealt with well and given solid resolution.
Shin's feelings for Noe/Hiromi are going to be resolved in 13, so obviously that's inconclusive as of episode 12..., and how much more resolution do you want for Ai? Ai's plot has been thoroughly dealt with, there's nothing left to do on that front considering she reconciled with Nobuse and "moved on" from Shin as best as she could.
The changed ending for the storybook in this episode renders the ending for the last episode to be useless. The "mother storyline" was the basis for Hiromi's frigidness for the first ~7-9 episodes, and was left with no solid conclusion. If that's not a sign of shoddy writing, I don't know what is.
My problem with Ai-chan's character is that her feelings came out of nowhere (this doesn't really have anything to do with this episode, but more with the entire series as a whole). So she was childhood friends with Shin (I think) and he's always regarded her as a big sister of sorts (I think). Does that give us grounds to believe that she'll somehow fall in love with Shin for no other apparent reason? It's almost as if her character was thrown in to make this a harem show instead of just a love-triangle show. Her character would have been better used as a sounding board for Shin's problems, instead of as a failed subplot and an object of AixShin shippers.
Sinestra
2008-03-24, 21:44
Sigh well I knew Shin was going to annoy me to the point where i want to slug him and he did it in this episode. Honestly i shouldn't be as upset as i am because the story is still progressing the way it should there were no real changes in this episode except that Shin realized something while dancing which i predicted. His speech about doing everything properly was all for not, since he royally screwed up this time. I understand that the guy wants Noe to see the book i understand that he has things he needs to tell her. But its painfully obvious that Hiromi loves him and yes he loves her too for all the shipping that has been going on for Noe that fact has remained constant since episode 1 it has not changed. He left Hiromi saying "dont leave me" thats a bad move that could lead to only more misunderstandings. As frustrated as i am with Shin i think he is honestly trying the best he can and i cant say i could do any better in his place. I have hope in the end he will show us what his truth worth is.
Hiromi put made some bold statements this time around but to me it shows her maturing. For her to actually voice what she wants was a step forward. "I am Shins girlfriend", "leave us alone", "iv always loved him and im sure he loves me". These are all statements i have been waiting to see from either her or Shin. Shins indecisiveness is a real problem and if he wants to be a man he needs to own up to shit grow a pair clearly and vocally make a choice. Now the one sandle with Hiromi is foreshadow due to the importance of when it happened when they little. Everything they have shown has been in Hiromis favour so if it ends with Noe i will pissed not because it ended with Noe but because of the story doesnt support it.
Both girls play an important role in Shins life. Noe was the one gave Shin ambition and motivation to write his book. In a way you could say she is like a guardian angel guiding him in the right direction. But love is different and there has never been any proof that he loves Noe. Hiromis roll is that of Love and the lessons he is learning from his relationship with Hiromi is HOW to love and how to hold on to something dear to you not to mention honesty. Two very important life lessons. But this is love story not a guidance counselor after school special so the end should not shock most people who have actually been following the story.
Noe has lost her place and the fact that she tried to fly shows that something is ticking in her something is changing. I only hope shes not hurt too bad. Noe is also learning some life lessons from everyone and she realized that she was so caught up in search for Tears that she neglected to see what was in Shins and Hiromis heart even her own brother it must have been quite a shock. Well its almost over im sure of what ending we will get but there is no point in voicing it at the moment.
btw i thought the festival dance was really well done actually it was down right cool and i enjoyed the pleasant tone and friendly smile Shins mom gave to Hiromi. That gives me hope for the future.
@Reckoner
Yeah, I see what you're saying. I think people were just not happy that the writers tried to make him seem different from other harem leads with that proclamation of "doing things right" with 1/4 of the series left but then didn't really follow up with it. I don't particularly mind in any case since I'm not really rooting for any girl, and I think episode 13 will deliver fantastically whatever it's going to deliver.
@be0wulf
We're going to disagree about Jun's feelings for Noe and the possibility of him having feelings for Hiromi, simply because the scenes with Jun and Hiromi can be read either as him just honoring the contract or him actually maybe thinking of her more than that.
I do think you're wrong though particularly because of how cold he was before Hiromi delivered her speech in episode 11. He put his hand on his cheek and mentioned the contract; right there was where I pretty much realized he had never really felt anything more for Hiromi than maybe some kind of companionship in the abstract sense of her having the same struggle (towards Shin) as he does towards Noe. Either way, him going for Noe's lips was perfectly natural at this point in the story considering how his character has been developed with an obsession towards Noe's happiness...
On the second point, I suppose I agree with you in that Shin'll have been inconsistent in some sense if he goes for Noe, since he's totally ditching the resolve he built in ep 9-10 to do something for Hiromi, but at worst he'll have waited far too long to do things properly if he ends up with Hiromi, so I think the writers do have an out in that sense. It's easily let off as Shin waffling for a little bit early on when he confesses to Noe as part of the contract but getting his resolve by episode 10 and not really acting on it while trying to get Noe's tears in the final 2-3 episodes. Either way, I think a Hiromi ending is consistent to his feelings for Hiromi throughout other than his confession to Noe when he actually seemed interested in Noe at that point. The final two episodes in that explanation would feature him making sure that Noe isn't totally destroyed by him flying away from her...
Honestly though, I don't really care what the pairing is as long as the last episode delivers a satisfactory end for where this has all gone.
On the last two points I generally agree that Ai could have been used in a better manner; personally I thought that Ai would not attempt to stir the waters and just serve to explain Hiromi's or Noe's actions... as she first did in her explanation of why girls befriend friends of guys they like. I honestly thought that was going to be Ai's purpose, but then of course she jumps into the fray with her kiss, and I do chalk that up as a lost opportunity as you do.
The lack of explanation of Shin's mom versus Hiromi's mom and the unsatisfactory resolution remains the weakest part of the story, so I have nothing to add to that.
So you're thinking the slipper thing is going to result in a literally identical recreation of their childhood memory? I'm not sure that situation would be likely, given what's happened.
not exactly, it would serve to remind them how long they knew each other and he'll finally tell her how he feels about her.
He never said , he loves Hiromi or anything.
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1640/snapshot20080324233643kd6.jpg
Wow, so many long comments...
There's one thing that I have a different view from some of you though, and that's about Shin's decisiveness. By the end of this episode, during the dance, I think Shin finally got his feelings resolved. By that, I mean he now knows what actions needed to do (for Noe and for Hiromi) so that he'll actually live up to his promise: to do things properly. It's just that they (the story writers) just don't reveal it to us yet. So, just because you feel unsure about what he'll do next doesn't automatically make Shin himself feeling the same.
I think the main thing that keeps this series from being 100% realistic is how little characters talk about what they intended to do or how they really feel until the final moment of their corresponding plot arcs. Oftentimes what's said only gave a slight hint (and rather ambiguous at that) of what action the character will take next. Yes, from screenwriting point of view, it makes sense to build suspense and save the revelation for later episodes, but damn, it's so irritating. To me, if the characters have been a little more communicative, and sending less mixed signal in their behaviors, then it wouldn't really stir up so much irritations in audiences as can be seen now in this thread. For example, by the end of this episode, if Shin just want to break up with Noe and go for Hiromi, realistically he should have reassured her before running off to Noe. Likewise, if he chooses to be with Noe, he can make Hiromi knows of his intention by saying just a couple of short sentences before taking off. Doing either of those would take only a few seconds, so he wouldn't really waste any time if he did so. Yet all he did was a little blushing, stayed quiet and said "I need to go now." Yes, from what we've seen so far, we always know who he really loves, so there's no question about that. But still...
^That screencap by itself was just...hilarious, given Shin's facial expression and the words below it.
@be0wulf
We're going to disagree about Jun's feelings for Noe and the possibility of him having feelings for Hiromi, simply because the scenes with Jun and Hiromi can be read either as him just honoring the contract or him actually maybe thinking of her more than that.
I do think you're wrong though particularly because of how cold he was before Hiromi delivered her speech in episode 11. He put his hand on his cheek and mentioned the contract; right there was where I pretty much realized he had never really felt anything more for Hiromi than maybe some kind of companionship in the abstract sense of her having the same struggle (towards Shin) as he does towards Noe. Either way, him going for Noe's lips was perfectly natural at this point in the story considering how his character has been developed with an obsession towards Noe's happiness...
I suppose viewpoints will differ on Jun's true feelings, and unless the next episode clears things up, it'll remain so.
As for the kiss; Jun's been a calculating individual throughout the series. To think that he'd make a move for his sister right after her little overnight drama in the chickencoop when she's at her most emotionally fragile state, to me, didn't make sense at all. After all, he wants her to be happy, right? Why would he pull something like that when she obviously needs brotherly comfort, and not of the sexual sort?
On the second point, I suppose I agree with you in that Shin'll have been inconsistent in some sense if he goes for Noe, since he's totally ditching the resolve he built in ep 9-10 to do something for Hiromi, but at worst he'll have waited far too long to do things properly if he ends up with Hiromi, so I think the writers do have an out in that sense. It's easily let off as Shin waffling for a little bit early on when he confesses to Noe as part of the contract but getting his resolve by episode 10 and not really acting on it while trying to get Noe's tears in the final 2-3 episodes. Either way, I think a Hiromi ending is consistent to his feelings for Hiromi throughout other than his confession to Noe when he actually seemed interested in Noe at that point. The final two episodes in that explanation would feature him making sure that Noe isn't totally destroyed by him flying away from her...
Honestly though, I don't really care what the pairing is as long as the last episode delivers a satisfactory end for where this has all gone.
Who knows? Maybe Shin will end up with his mother. Just to complete this whole incest theme.
Stretch5920
2008-03-24, 23:20
I don't really care about the ending anymore. The writing was really good in the first half and fell apart in the second. Too many silly cliffhangers and plot twists solely created for lol drama and the huge letdown on the Shin's mom issue. Also unless Aiko does something like talk to Hiromi/Noe about how she got over shin, what's the friggin point of her?
edit: The way it is now, I'm thinking the best end would be Shin leaving and going to art school. Thanking Noe for inspiring him and apologising to Hiromi. Single end.
FuzzyWuzzy
2008-03-24, 23:59
OMG OMG OMG!
I don't know who he is going to choose.
It looks like Noe. Omg!
Nice nice nice!
I like the guessing guessing guessing part of this episode.
As for the kiss; Jun's been a calculating individual throughout the series. To think that he'd make a move for his sister right after her little overnight drama in the chickencoop when she's at her most emotionally fragile state, to me, didn't make sense at all. After all, he wants her to be happy, right? Why would he pull something like that when she obviously needs brotherly comfort, and not of the sexual sort?
I don't really know how much Jun knows about what Noe went through the previous night, so I don't think we really know about how fragile he thinks her emotional state is.
To be honest, I thought about it and the best explanation that I could come up with is that Jun comes to the realization that he's going to finally stop "forcing" Noe to rely on him in some sense.
Everything he's done for Noe (until Hiromi's statement) he's done with her interest in mind. But I think he realizes that he's overprotected her in the sense of making all of the big decisions for her or steering her along certain paths.
For the first time he decides he's just going to show her his feelings and let her decide on her own whether to accept his feelings or reject them.
I also think that provides an explanation for his tears at that moment. He realizes in some sense that a lot of things he's done for her were actually for his own piece of mind as he says "I've done a lot of selfish things", and he finally gets peace from the release of telling her his true feelings and going for the kiss that he always wanted.
So I guess what I'm saying is that he's finally freeing her from his obsession with her happiness; that is, what he thought her happiness should be, and in that process is finally letting Noe decide what her happiness should be.
Whitemoon648
2008-03-25, 00:21
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1640/snapshot20080324233643kd6.jpg
Of course No one doubts that :). You are kinda manipulating what i said *_*. Its ok, I bet it was eaither meant as a joke or you didnt realize or maybe i wasnt clear enough. Here is what i said, Full sentence ( rather than partly),:
" He never said , he loves Hiromi or anything. He just said i will do everything properly"
So i am obviously not saying , he didnt have feelings for her. Yes i am not denying that. He had feelings for her. It was mentioned many times during the series. I was talking about when she hugged her, when she kissed her and through out the series. Let me be more clear. He never in the whole series, Not even once, said to Hiromi that he liked her. There was more to my post, You gotta go 2 to 3 page back and read the whole thing :).
My apologies if i wasnt clear enough, But i think Deathkillz post does show what we are talking about. Any ways if you want to know my thoughts, here are the rest of them below.
Sorry...but doing it proper for me means that he will not fck up again. And guess what? He fcked up.
He knows full well that Hiromi love him. And himself in a sense knows that he loves her. If that wasn't the case then why did he break his back chasing her on that crappy bike on an icy road?
The fact is that he loves her but then suffers from amnesia and now believes that he wants sexy time with Noe :rolleyes:
Seriously, what he is doing now isn't proper at all. You said that he never told Hiromi that he loves her...but dammit does their action need to be justified with words already? Now why did Shin accept the kiss from Hiromi? Why didn't he question her motive for kissing him...I'm sure he is a good enough boy to say so.
And I say that thinking about it makes me relation him to makoto more and more.
Makoto never decided, oh no. He only screwed them. He never told kotonoha to break up (so by you logic it would be the same with Shin and Hiromi (and yes, I do believe that their feelings for each other are already mutual). Shin said nothing, he just left for Noe).
Funny how Hiromi is also breaking down...
"Don't leave me" ehh :rolleyes:
Well every one has a diffrent take on this, but here is mine :cool:,
Sorry...but doing it proper for me means that he will not fck up again. And guess what? He fcked up.
Now, now, we shouldnt blame him. I dont think he was the person at fault here. The person that initiate the kissing is Hiromi. Even after she kisses him, he doesnt reply back. Hiromi knows that he loves Noe, She realizes that but still forces him to be with her. She is an exact replica of Shin's mother. She even call herself selfish. Even though she knows , that Shin loves her, she is manipulating every one so that she can be with him. And yes she is doing all of these bcause she wants him and she loves him, but at the same time she is ignoring what shin wants. Again like how shin's mother is. and As for Noe, she runs off by herself before shin is finished talking. They way i saw it, Shin was just trying to get advice from her as what to do. He was confused at that moment.
He knows full well that Hiromi love him. And himself in a sense knows that he loves her. If that wasn't the case then why did he break his back chasing her on that crappy bike on an icy road?
He Knew she loved her before , she goes to his house. While in the house based on Hiromi's cold attitude, he doesnt know if he does or not ( he is confused) and at the very end he realizes that she does love him when she kisses him. And He himself Knows that He Loved her. Right now he doesnt know if he loves her or not. That is why he was taking his time ( almost whole night) thinking. And at the end of the dance festival he realizes that he loves Noe. Even Thought he doesnt see her in the festival cheering for him, he still misses her. He used to love Hiromi ( or what he thought was love), but now Noe comes along. He is confused as Who he really loves and he realizes that the only person who he really( mainly) cared for , the person who he happily worte the book for , the person who tried so hard to dance for was none other than NOE. He didnt want to to dance because he didnt want to be compared to his dad but he practiced hard and enthusiaticly so he could show it to Noe. He was affraid of writing the book, But did it so Noe could read. Almost every thing he did was just for Noe and his inspiration was Noe. Even the book he wrote about Hiromi failed him ( as it was rejected. Another symbolic thing that shows Hiromi v shin fails :heh:). The whole series has been around Noe and Him and Hiromi getting in the way.
and as for the bike thing, well thats obvious thing to do. even at first episode it was stated that he had the feeling that she is depending on him. she lost her parents and shinchi, her childhood friend didnt her one bit
she was suffering and shin didnt comfort her. at the very end he realizes that and he rushes to her side. i saw it more as apologizing to her than chasing because he loved her. So he was kind of saying " i am sorry that i didnt notice".
The fact is that he loves her but then suffers from amnesia and now believes that he wants sexy time with Noe
Oh pleaaaaaaaase :heh:. its not like its one of those animes that the main hero hits his head on an stone and gets thronw into another dimension and comes back to see he has lost all of his memories. How can you suffer from an amnesia about loving some one? Its an interesting theory but , its kinda ...... :eyebrow: . Any ways, not a statement i would ever imagine that you would come up with :D.
Seriously, what he is doing now isn't proper at all. You said that he never told Hiromi that he loves her...but dammit does their action need to be justified with words already? Now why did Shin accept the kiss from Hiromi? Why didn't he question her motive for kissing him...I'm sure he is a good enough boy to say so.
Well what actions *_*? So far She has invited him to go outside and then she was the one that kissed him. Every thing has been her doing. Well as why he didnt reject it, was because she did that out of the blue. How could he have. And Also , he is confused as who he loves. He has had feelings for Hiromi, and thus that adds to the confusion. She initiate the kiss, And he didnt stop it ( again because he still has mixed feelings). He just stood there and was suprised to a point. And when she tried to kiss her, he had plenty of time to move forward and join her. But he didnt move forward. It shows that he is still confused. When you see some one that you love is moving for a kiss, you would ususally do the same but SHIN DIDNT. And I think the better question would be why didnt he say he loved her too. And why didnt he move forward for the kiss. And Why would he question Her motive . He knows that she loves her, But he doesnt know if he has the same feelings for her.
Any ways, This is the type of anime that opinions will vary. So as long as we all say what we think, then maybe some other people will start thinking the same way. Many times i have thought of an event in anime in one way, but then i read other people's posts ( Including yours *_*, Which i usually like very much) and then changed my mind. But yeah, unless you can convince me with more evidence to back your post , i am sticking with my idea.
P.S. Deathkillz, Your avatar looks as awesome as ever. Mind if i ask what anime it is from :D?
germanturkey
2008-03-25, 00:23
I saw sooo expecting Noe to pull a Sekai. especially when she was sitting there with her hands over her ears.
anyways, if it ends up shin x noe, i will be soooooo upset. coupled with the inevitable sadness/awesomeness of next week's 00, aria ending, and some unforeseen circumstance, i think i might go into depression or throw fits of rage.
now its basically two mythical forces competing with each other. Hiromi's "don't leave me alone" plus the power of their history at the festival together, vs Noe's i'll make you fly/i'll fly. which one will win, tune in next week.
i know for a fact that if noe wins, thousands of fans will be pissed. you can't go your whole life loving someone, then you finally get the chance to be with them, then throw it away for some girl because she said something quirky to you on an occasion in school. it doesn't happen that way. you don't simply throw away a lifetime of love.
you know the "don't leave me alone" at the festival will factor in somehow next ep. i'm looking forward to hiromi winning next ep. if not, the great harem series known as TT would have taken one of the worst u-turns i've ever seen in an anime.
KholdStare
2008-03-25, 00:25
Well, I will refrain from commenting this episode because it all depends on what happens next episode. This episode sets up for an upset, but that's no longer the issue for me. From episode 6 or so we have all been looking forward for how True Tears will present the last episode, because right now to me it doesn't really matter who wins, as long as they end it well.
I don't really know how much Jun knows about what Noe went through the previous night, so I don't think we really know about how fragile he thinks her emotional state is.
To be honest, I thought about it and the best explanation that I could come up with is that Jun comes to the realization that he's going to finally stop "forcing" Noe to rely on him in some sense.
Everything he's done for Noe (until Hiromi's statement) he's done with her interest in mind. But I think he realizes that he's overprotected her in the sense of making all of the big decisions for her or steering her along certain paths.
For the first time he decides he's just going to show her his feelings and let her decide on her own whether to accept his feelings or reject them.
I also think that provides an explanation for his tears at that moment. He realizes in some sense that a lot of things he's done for her were actually for his own piece of mind as he says "I've done a lot of selfish things", and he finally gets peace from the release of telling her his true feelings and going for the kiss that he always wanted.
So I guess what I'm saying is that he's finally freeing her from his obsession with her happiness; that is, what he thought her happiness should be, and in that process is finally letting Noe decide what her happiness should be.
Considering he was frantic enough to call Hiromi...besides, he knows that she was away all night. Note that he didn't even ask her what was wrong or anything.
Considering he was frantic enough to call Hiromi...besides, he knows that she was away all night. Note that he didn't even ask her what was wrong or anything.
Well, that kind of thing we just assume was taken care of when Noe returned home. It is well into the next day when the Jun/Noe incident occurs. Jun probably just assumes she can handle it at that time.
I think the main thing that keeps this series from being 100% realistic is how little characters talk about what they intended to do or how they really feel until the final moment of their corresponding plot arcs. Oftentimes what's said only gave a slight hint (and rather ambiguous at that) of what action the character will take next. Yes, from screenwriting point of view, it makes sense to build suspense and save the revelation for later episodes, but damn, it's so irritating. To me, if the characters have been a little more communicative, and sending less mixed signal in their behaviors, then it wouldn't really stir up so much irritations in audiences as can be seen now in this thread. For example, by the end of this episode, if Shin just want to break up with Noe and go for Hiromi, realistically he should have reassured her before running off to Noe. Likewise, if he chooses to be with Noe, he can make Hiromi knows of his intention by saying just a couple of short sentences before taking off. Doing either of those would take only a few seconds, so he wouldn't really waste any time if he did so. Yet all he did was a little blushing, stayed quiet and said "I need to go now." Yes, from what we've seen so far, we always know who he really loves, so there's no question about that. But still...
This is the probably the best analysis of the realism aspect of True Tears that I've seen on this forums. The writers have been trying to extend the drama across each episode with the large impact endings but it does seem to be a tradeoff between a more realistic calm view versus a stronger dramatic impact with the writers choosing the latter.
jadman2004
2008-03-25, 06:21
whitmoon brings up great and very valid points, im in complete agreement that we are going to see a shin x noe ending, just one other big thing that should be noted as well is the dance
the writers very clearly show you has really captured shin's eye (and heart) as noe with her image clearly reflected in his eye during the dance part. such a large hint is only there to show you finally who shin really cares for, the person always on his mind and the one who supported him noe
the person always on his mind
So when he was thinking about Hiromi for the majority of the series he was actually thinking about Noe!?
Sinestra
2008-03-25, 07:31
whitmoon brings up great and very valid points, im in complete agreement that we are going to see a shin x noe ending, just one other big thing that should be noted as well is the dance
the writers very clearly show you has really captured shin's eye (and heart) as noe with her image clearly reflected in his eye during the dance part. such a large hint is only there to show you finally who shin really cares for, the person always on his mind and the one who supported him noe
At first glance yes absolutely it can be taken that way but the writers have proven to be very deceitful with symbolisms in TT. The apple of my eye theory seems a clincher but i didnt get that Noe's reflection in his eye was him choosing her. The scene does serve a purpose, because Shin had some type of realization during the dance. However, if you take the preview for the next episode into account the poem is about Hiromi because it was first said in episode 1. If thats the case the poem and the apple of my eye theory cancel each other. What i got from the reflection was he saw something in Noe that he didnt see before. My guess he saw that she can actually fly and rushed after her to show her the book and whatever realization he had about her flying and probably to clear up his romantic feelings. What you say about the reflection in the eye could be true i just didnt get that feeling.
Deathkillz
2008-03-25, 07:53
This scene made me laugh.
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/5838/snapshot20080325122003qt1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Oh my god the monkey has a brain (cell) :rolleyes:
Now, now, we shouldnt blame him. I dont think he was the person at fault here. The person that initiate the kissing is Hiromi. Even after she kisses him, he doesnt reply back. Hiromi knows that he loves Noe, She realizes that but still forces him to be with her. She is an exact replica of Shin's mother. She even call herself selfish. Even though she knows , that Shin loves her, she is manipulating every one so that she can be with him. And yes she is doing all of these bcause she wants him and she loves him, but at the same time she is ignoring what shin wants. Again like how shin's mother is. and As for Noe, she runs off by herself before shin is finished talking. They way i saw it, Shin was just trying to get advice from her as what to do. He was confused at that moment.
That was actually very nicely put. I agree that Hiromi is being manipulative of everyone but that is for the sake of love. Though I still believe that Shin was by his own will chasing after her because he loves her. But for some reason, his perspective has shifted to Noe. This is the think that ticks me off is that there wasn't any sense in why he would remember that he needs to "sort things out" with Noe when up til now he has pretty much left her. (Okey...a counter for this would be because he was preoccupied with Hiromi at the time, still I'm annoyed that he isn't telling Hiromi that he needs to tell Noe whatever he needs to say.
He Knew she loved her before , she goes to his house. While in the house based on Hiromi's cold attitude, he doesnt know if he does or not ( he is confused) and at the very end he realizes that she does love him when she kisses him. And He himself Knows that He Loved her. Right now he doesnt know if he loves her or not. That is why he was taking his time ( almost whole night) thinking. And at the end of the dance festival he realizes that he loves Noe. Even Thought he doesnt see her in the festival cheering for him, he still misses her. He used to love Hiromi ( or what he thought was love), but now Noe comes along. He is confused as Who he really loves and he realizes that the only person who he really( mainly) cared for , the person who he happily worte the book for , the person who tried so hard to dance for was none other than NOE. He didnt want to to dance because he didnt want to be compared to his dad but he practiced hard and enthusiaticly so he could show it to Noe. He was affraid of writing the book, But did it so Noe could read. Almost every thing he did was just for Noe and his inspiration was Noe. Even the book he wrote about Hiromi failed him ( as it was rejected. Another symbolic thing that shows Hiromi v shin fails :heh:). The whole series has been around Noe and Him and Hiromi getting in the way.
I think I am begining to understand your point. Righty so if Shin DID love Hiromi that he would have been chasing after her (but really, I know that he knew that she loves him even before the kiss but w/e :heh:). Still though, even if he has switched (dam you amnesia) overnight, the way he is handling things is the biggest bug on my shoulder. If he knows that Hiromi loves him but he doesn't love her, he should stop letting the "relationship" hang in mid air. If he is so sure that he loves Noe then why doesn't he tell Hiromi.
Anything would do, just a simple "sorry Hiromi, I love Noe". Abit he will get slapped but that is the price for being an idiot :rolleyes:
Yet here we have now is Hiromi breakingdown. Dam you one track minded male leads >.>
and as for the bike thing, well thats obvious thing to do. even at first episode it was stated that he had the feeling that she is depending on him. she lost her parents and shinchi, her childhood friend didnt her one bit
she was suffering and shin didnt comfort her. at the very end he realizes that and he rushes to her side. i saw it more as apologizing to her than chasing because he loved her. So he was kind of saying " i am sorry that i didnt notice".
Here comes the pity. Hiromi need no pity :rolleyes:
I just took it as being that he loves her and he needed to chase her. The thing with thinking that it was because he wanted to apologise is rather...dumb to me. What is there to apologise now? Shin's indecisiveness drove her out of the house in the first place. But then apologising for being an ass works. Shame though as the viewers and Hiromi got the wrong vibes from it (though I still stand by saying that the bugger loves Hiromi :p).
Oh pleaaaaaaaase :heh:. its not like its one of those animes that the main hero hits his head on an stone and gets thronw into another dimension and comes back to see he has lost all of his memories. How can you suffer from an amnesia about loving some one? Its an interesting theory but , its kinda ...... :eyebrow: . Any ways, not a statement i would ever imagine that you would come up with :D.
That is how I still feel about him. Sudden mind change is not my thing as I see no lead up...what a minute. Maybe I am too dumb to get the subtle lead ups (being subtle and all) :uhoh:
whatever :heh:
Well what actions *_*? So far She has invited him to go outside and then she was the one that kissed him. Every thing has been her doing. Well as why he didnt reject it, was because she did that out of the blue. How could he have. And Also , he is confused as who he loves. He has had feelings for Hiromi, and thus that adds to the confusion. She initiate the kiss, And he didnt stop it ( again because he still has mixed feelings). He just stood there and was suprised to a point. And when she tried to kiss her, he had plenty of time to move forward and join her. But he didnt move forward. It shows that he is still confused. When you see some one that you love is moving for a kiss, you would ususally do the same but SHIN DIDNT. And I think the better question would be why didnt he say he loved her too. And why didnt he move forward for the kiss. And Why would he question Her motive . He knows that she loves her, But he doesnt know if he has the same feelings for her.
Great logic :)
Indeed he didn't move forward. That is already a sign that he has switched. Nothing to dispute here.
Any ways, This is the type of anime that opinions will vary. So as long as we all say what we think, then maybe some other people will start thinking the same way. Many times i have thought of an event in anime in one way, but then i read other people's posts ( Including yours *_*, Which i usually like very much) and then changed my mind. But yeah, unless you can convince me with more evidence to back your post , i am sticking with my idea.
Well you do make a lot of valid points. Perhaps my thoughts hinge on quite a lot of "what ifs" and "he should have done that instead" as currently his actions just make little sense to me. He is a shallow inconsiderate person full of empty words and is very much as selfish as Hiromi (if not more seen as it is him who is hurting their feelings). I'm not trying to convince you but just stating my thoughts. But you did a pretty good job at making me rethink on how Shin and Hiromi is acting. Still the conclusion that Shin is an ass still stays :p
P.S. Deathkillz, Your avatar looks as awesome as ever. Mind if i ask what anime it is from :D?
Futami Eriko (:love:) from Kimikiss pure rouge.
I disagree with the ShinxNoe ending. I think what will happen is that Shin will show Noe the completed picture book and say something like a "thank you". He will then go back to Hiromi and say something like, "I've done everything properly".
Reasons I think this will be the ending is that:
1) Noe strives to get her tears back. Heartbreak is pretty effective in inducing tears.
2) Hiromi strives to get Shin.
EDIT:
3) I really don't think Shin actually loves/likes Noe. The only reason he had any interest in her was because of Noe's interest in him.
I'm probably wrong since I don't know wtf is the whole "flying thing" and the "chickens". Although I knew that was going to happen to Noe after seeing that ending in the picture book.
Liddo-kun
2008-03-25, 10:36
First off, I still vote a 10/10 even though my favourite girl is now losing - or she has already lost. :(
Strong episode indeed, and it somehow counters things that happened on episode 10. Now it's Noe who has the bigger chance, I think the ending will be 70% Noe, 20% Hiromi and 10% no one.
Damn you Shinichiro, you chase after Hiromi on episode 10 but now you want Noe!! >.<
Ascaloth
2008-03-25, 10:46
Watched Episode 12.
My reaction to this episode can be more or less summed up in these lines:
Hiromi: WTF, girl? Squeaky-bum time for you?
Shin: WTF is wrong with you, boy?! Can you do something properly for once?!
Noe: WTF. Just, plain, WTF.
You know, True Tears was once so good that I couldn't help but proclaim that the character development had exceeded CLANNAD's level. But much of the great deal of goodwill I had towards this series just went 'poof' at Episode 9, and I've been losing more and more of it ever since. This episode isn't yet the last straw, but it's pretty close.
At this rate, I'm not sure I care anymore whether it's Noe or Hiromi. 7/10.
Blog article coming soon.
BigGimp77
2008-03-25, 11:30
I'm at the point to where I'm really ready for the series to end. Ever since the middle way in the series, I havent really enjoyed it as much.
I think it really has to do with the fact I don't like Shin. It's okay to pick a girl and to flip flop once. But flip flopping twice in an anime really makes you look like a jerk. How can you spend the first half of the series always thinking about how you loved Hiromi (While you were with Noe). Then you get Hiromi and now all you think about is Noe.
How can you root for a guy that does nothing but treat the girls like crap and makes them cry all the time lol. Not to mention the fact that the huge flaws in the final two girls remaining. Noe is completely insane, And Hiromi is just over possessive.
Seriously I'm not rooting for ne one any more. I just hope everyone ends up single.
Darklightz
2008-03-25, 11:35
I also pretty much want this to end. The Shin and Hiromi relationship is just insane
Shin : I love Hiromi
Hiromi : I think I'm Shin's brother so I'll date Jun to try to forget my feelings
Shin : I'm an idiot so I'll date Noe to try to forget my feelings
Hiromi : I can't take this anymore! I love you Shin!
Shin : I love you too!
Hiromi : Really?
Shin : No, I'm going back to Noe now. kthxbai
Liddo-kun
2008-03-25, 12:08
I also pretty much want this to end. The Shin and Hiromi relationship is just insane
Shin : I love Hiromi
Hiromi : I think I'm Shin's brother so I'll date Jun to try to forget my feelings
Shin : I'm an idiot so I'll date Noe to try to forget my feelings
Hiromi : I can't take this anymore! I love you Shin!
Shin : I love you too!
Hiromi : Really?
Shin : No, I'm going back to Noe now. kthxbai
Good post, that pretty much summarizes the evets that happened so far. You get a cookie. :)
The only thing Shinichiro got right in this episode was the dance...
Did anyone else notice that at 4:30 of this episode, Shin said to himself "What was she saying? I was the one who superimposed Jibeta with myself. I was the one who did'nt realize Jibeta's strength".
Shin basically admitted that he represented himself as Jibeta at some point. I know there was a debate in episode 11 about who Jibeta was supposed to represent but here Shin is telling us that he "superimposed Jibeta" with himself. The writers might have given an element of foreshadowing by having Noe fall off the tree to parallel Jibeta's fall in episode 11, but at the time Shin was thinking of himself as Jibeta and not Noe because he "superimposed Jibeta" with himself.
With that being said, while I think the interpretations for Raigomaru and Jibeta in episodes 9-11 were valid for those episodes, episode 12 brought another shift in his thinking as he watched and listened to Noe at the beginning of the episode. Since she jumped off the tree at the end of the episode and the preview has Noe saying "Shinichiro said that I can fly", Shin likely has given up on the association of Jibeta and himself, and instead probably associates Jibeta with Noe now.
So now Shin is stuck with Raigomaru as representing him wanting to fly. Without using Jibeta as a separate representation of his feelings, I think it has evolved to the point where Raigomaru can represent him flying to either Hiromi or Noe because he has reconciled his separate feelings in Raigomaru and Jibeta into just Raigomaru.
Look at his self-dialogue as he danced. "Before he had even realized it, Raigomaru had been lured by the red seeds...and was standing on top of the hill. I want to fly! Was it because he ate those red seeds(Noe)?. Or was it because of the white snow (Hiromi)? He did'nt know." And it continues for a bit afterwards.
Anyway, I think that Shin realized and appreciated that Noe was the one who guided him into wanting to fly which is separate from actually wanting to fly for Noe. In the self-dialogue he was'nt really thinking in terms of who he wanted to fly for (symbolism: red seeds for Noe, white snow for Hiromi) because he said Raigomaru "did'nt know" the reason. He just wanted to show her his appreciation for helping him to fly, which is the realization that I think he came to, and that's why he was looking for Noe so he could tell her about the ending he had come up with and see what she thought of it.
I think that's the resolution that Shin has come with in regards to his relationship with Noe. She's the 'angel' who guided him into flying but Hiromi is the one he has loved for years. With the writers showing Noe saying "The one in Shinichiro's heart...is Yuasa Hiromi" both at the end of episode 11 and yet again at the beginning of episode 12, that should only reinforce that path. If Shin does'nt do things properly with Noe by himself, she could be the one to help him do it because she realizes that Hiromi is the one in Shin's heart. It took her this long to realize the feelings that Shin and Hiromi have for each other, and also she has to now take into consideration her brother's feelings for her.
Anyway, I'm interpreting things as still being consistent with the overall story. Shin was feeling guilty in episode 11 because he was 'officially' still dating Noe even though he was spending time with the girl he has liked for years. He still had a smile on his face when he came home after receiving Hiromi's kiss. He definitely was affected and had some self-doubt when he saw Jun at Hiromi's basketball game and later at the park. That shows that his feelings for Hiromi are still there, they did'nt 'shift' as some people said. It's just that when Noe did'nt come home, Shin started feeling worried on top of the guilt. He was concerned that he was hurting Noe even though she had inspired him into wanting to fly for Hiromi (ep 10 chase scene). Episode 12 to me is where he thinks and comes up with his answer. I was expecting Shin to resolve things at the beginning of the episode 12 because he had brought his picture book with him when looking for Noe. Unfortunately he was too confused to talk to her but now he seemed ready at the end of episode 12.
While the lie told by Shin's mother set up all the major misunderstandings in this show I think they revealed it as a lie so that not only can Mrs. Nakagami redeem herself but also so that the mistakes that were a result of it can be corrected. Otherwise you could end up with Shin and Hiromi holding bitterness towards Shin's mother for preventing something that should /would have happened if it was'nt for her meddling. Even Mrs. Nakagami would feel bad about herself. It depends on whether they decide on a more idealistic or more messy ending.
Reckoner
2008-03-25, 12:14
Shin : I love you too!
Hiromi : Really?
Shin : No, I'm going back to Noe now. kthxbai
I really think you should look at whitemoon's post as he possibly explains Shinchiro's motives when he chased after her on the bike.
The idea that because the characters lack communication, everything becomes more unrealistic is silly. I must have a pretty weird life then because people around me don't speak their mind like so. Like recently I've been having a hard time at a job, then it got to a point of ridiculousness that I brought up troubles to my boss and a whole dramatic meeting took place for like the next 30 minutes. Maybe you people are way more open, but thoughts and feelings are transmitted between humans usually by subtle clues. I don't know, maybe I have a weird life! But I'll leave it as your opinion.
I really think you should look at whitemoon's post as he possibly explains Shinchiro's motives when he chased after her on the bike.
The idea that because the characters lack communication, everything becomes more unrealistic is silly. I must have a pretty weird life then because people around me don't speak their mind like so. Like recently I've been having a hard time at a job, then it got to a point of ridiculousness that I brought up troubles to my boss and a whole dramatic meeting took place for like the next 30 minutes. Maybe you people are way more open, but thoughts and feelings are transmitted between humans usually by subtle clues. I don't know, maybe I have a weird life! But I'll leave it as your opinion.
b0nyb0y deals with this in his post on the main issues that people are having with the "realism" being portrayed. I think his response would be the same as mine, so I'll repost his lines and elaborate.
I think the main thing that keeps this series from being 100% realistic is how little characters talk about what they intended to do or how they really feel until the final moment of their corresponding plot arcs. Oftentimes what's said only gave a slight hint (and rather ambiguous at that) of what action the character will take next. Yes, from screenwriting point of view, it makes sense to build suspense and save the revelation for later episodes, but damn, it's so irritating. To me, if the characters have been a little more communicative, and sending less mixed signal in their behaviors, then it wouldn't really stir up so much irritations in audiences as can be seen now in this thread. For example, by the end of this episode, if Shin just want to break up with Noe and go for Hiromi, realistically he should have reassured her before running off to Noe. Likewise, if he chooses to be with Noe, he can make Hiromi knows of his intention by saying just a couple of short sentences before taking off. Doing either of those would take only a few seconds, so he wouldn't really waste any time if he did so. Yet all he did was a little blushing, stayed quiet and said "I need to go now." Yes, from what we've seen so far, we always know who he really loves, so there's no question about that. But still...
I think b0nyb0y's points answer your and Whitemoon's address of the "total lack of communication".
Shin isn't even dropping "subtle hints." Like he said absolutely nothing to Hiromi before running off to find Noe at the end of episode 12. Sure that can easily be chalked up in many ways, but at this point it just looks like the writers sacrificing realism for more drama. I'm not buying that small ambiguous hints are a substitute for subtle hints that imply choices.
You continue to take the extreme view of what we expect. We expect subtle hints, not a broad answering of all the questions. No one is expecting Shin to "speak his mind" to Hiromi before running off to Noe at the end of 12. We want a small degree of answers to Noe and Hiromi at various points, not him keeping everything close to vest for no other reason than to drive up the drama. If he made his choice at the dance then certainly we should be fair in expecting him to drop a hint to Hiromi as he runs to Noe.
Shin should be dropping the subtle hints to let people know what's going on at the end of episode 12..., that's the point we've been trying to make.
LOL are you guys also expecting the same end as School days? -_-
(Damn you Jun, sick bastard O__O What the hell r you thinking? :O )
P.S.: Can i say that word: bastard, here on this forum? Cuz i kinda dunno xD Just to make sure
Reckoner
2008-03-25, 12:55
b0nyb0y deals with this in his post on the main issues that people are having with the "realism" being portrayed. I think his response would be the same as mine, so I'll repost his lines and elaborate.
I think b0nyb0y's points answer your and Whitemoon's address of the "total lack of communication".
Shin isn't even dropping "subtle hints." Like he said absolutely nothing to Hiromi before running off to find Noe at the end of episode 12. Sure that can easily be chalked up in many ways, but at this point it just looks like the writers sacrificing realism for more drama. I'm not buying that small ambiguous hints are a substitute for subtle hints that imply choices.
You continue to take the extreme view of what we expect. We expect subtle hints, not a broad answering of all the questions. No one is expecting Shin to "speak his mind" to Hiromi before running off to Noe at the end of 12. We want a small degree of answers to Noe and Hiromi at various points, not him keeping everything close to vest for no other reason than to drive up the drama. If he made his choice at the dance then certainly we should be fair in expecting him to drop a hint to Hiromi as he runs to Noe.
Shin should be dropping the subtle hints to let people know what's going on at the end of episode 12..., that's the point we've been trying to make.
Shinchrio dropped one hint in this episode when he told Hiromi that it was going to be crowded and you don't have to force yourself with his faint smile.
He hasn't even had an opportunity to speak to Noe after his closet fiasco, hence why he's chasing after her to sort out his feelings. Ok, perhaps if he was thinking clearly he would've let Hiromi know kind of what's on his mind. But from what I could garner from his mind in this episode, he is starting to get a little warped in his thoughts and doesn't know exactly what he is doing anymore. This was kind of portrayed by the scene of him sitting at the stand with Nobuse where he states "what am I doing?." Still I think Hiromi understood what's going on when he kept telling her in a guilty way, "I have to go now." It's not like she doesn't know, why would she be getting sad and saying "don't leave me" if that was the case? Or do you think she is assuming too much because Shinchiro doesn't let her know in a clearer way? I understand you don't expect him to actually speak his mind to everyone, but give a reasonable statement of what Shinchiro could've said to HIromi in that little two minutes he had when he is trying to chase after Noe...
Shinchrio dropped one hint in this episode when he told Hiromi that it was going to be crowded and you don't have to force yourself with his faint smile.
He hasn't even had an opportunity to speak to Noe after his closet fiasco, hence why he's chasing after her to sort out his feelings. Ok, perhaps if he was thinking clearly he would've let Hiromi know kind of what's on his mind. But from what I could garner from his mind in this episode, he is starting to get a little warped in his thoughts and doesn't know exactly what he is doing anymore. This was kind of portrayed by the scene of him sitting at the stand with Nobuse where he states "what am I doing?." Still I think Hiromi understood what's going on when he kept telling her in a guilty way, "I have to go now." It's not like she doesn't know, why would she be getting sad and saying "don't leave me" if that was the case? Or do you think she is assuming too much because Shinchiro doesn't let her know in a clearer way? I understand you don't expect him to actually speak his mind to everyone, but give a reasonable statement of what Shinchiro could've said to HIromi in that little two minutes he had when he is trying to chase after Noe...
Well, I agree with most of what you're saying, but on the last thing; I do think he misses an opportunity to clear things up with a small simple statement.
Right after Hiromi says that she told Noe to leave them alone and that they're together; Shin says to the effect that its okay that Hiromi told that stuff to Noe and then he just says he has to go to the closing celebration.
Right there, if he really had made his decision before that, he could have either said "You shouldn't have told her that" or "That's not how we are" a small statement disagreeing if he had really made a decision that opposes what she said. Instead he just goes along with it and then fakes to go off to celebrate. If he was choosing her then possibly he could have indicated it by not abandoning her or something like "I'll go and talk to Noe, wait for (or "believe in") me" since he'd want to go and make sure Noe can deal with it.
I don't know that scene was just extremely frustrating to me more than any of Shin's actions prior to that because it seemed like he made some kind of decision during the dance, so I thought that he would finally start doing things properly at that point and yet it still wasn't meant to be...
I really think that he missed the last chance to finally be proactive (since he had finally made some kind of decision) and again he has to wait until another drastic Noe action (at the end of 12 just like at 11) to finally go through with it.
Maybe that's my gripe with it and compared with Jun coming clean as well as Hiromi's actions over the past 3 episodes, I have to think Hiromi and Jun are the only ones who have done things properly after facing up to their feelings. Noe's trying as best she can to deal with all of these new emotions to her so I give her far more leeway for not being able to emotionally handle all of this.
Either way, losing his last and perhaps only chance to truly be proactive (in my mind) is a total disappointment to me despite how much I like this series. I've given you three 1-liners that Shin could have used to indicate what his feelings were after seeing Noe in his eyes during the dance and making the "decision", and I think I'm safe in saying that it would reasonable to expect something like this from a character who's struggled to be proactive through his doubt but has reached some position of clarity.
Reckoner
2008-03-25, 13:41
All right, as Deathkillz put it "he fcked up", and I'll agree with you. We both probably were watching that scene with different anticipations. You expected Shinchiro to finally step up, I expected him to be his usual self. So I can understand your disappointment with it. The writers were clearly trying to show that he was going to change, but he so far hasn't really done anything too different. But I am expecting him to finally make these changes next episode, if the girls do everything for him then I'll actually be disappointed like you are this episode.
I have too much free time and was rewatching ep 8, then 12. It got me thinking. I think everyone here has agreed that Noe is going to get her tears back next episode, the question is just how? From heartbreak? It seems less likely now. I mean, Noe's already heartbroken, and she's still not crying. She found it actually hard to cry in ep 12. The only time Noe has been shown close to crying was when Shin wrote he 'likes' her on the ground. The Noe ending just keeps getting stronger the more I rewatch.
Ok, perhaps if he was thinking clearly he would've let Hiromi know kind of what's on his mind. But from what I could garner from his mind in this episode, he is starting to get a little warped in his thoughts and doesn't know exactly what he is doing anymore. This was kind of portrayed by the scene of him sitting at the stand with Nobuse where he states "what am I doing?."
I just want to say this rings true. I thought the scene with Miyokishi and Shin was pretty random as well, and I don't think the writers will just animate that scene cuz they feel like it. Like you said, I think they just want to emphasize that even Shin himself doesn't know what he's doing anymore. Out of all 11 episodes, this is the only episode where he starts to really break away from his old self--the one who couldn't fly.
@vio5555
Also, while it's true Shin didn't verbally express what's on his mind about Hiromi, his expressions and his eye movements tell us a whole lot. Nonverbal communication is way more expressive than verbal. We've been shown a lot of facial close-up of Shin here, especially when talking to Hiromi. It may be too subtle to notice, but if you're looking for subtle hints, there you go. He's been like that, ever since ep 11, and it just got worse in this episode. I do feel like he's being a little bit of a jerk for lying to Hiromi too, but that simple gesture tells us a lot as well. Hence, this is why I think episode 13 will be interesting. We get to confirm our suspicions lol
Noe is supposed to get her tears back by taking them from someone dear to her as she herself said in the early episodes, that's supposed to be the mechanism although the exact method in episode 13 may be different. That's what her grandmother told her and that's what Noe believes. The only ones that qualify are Shin and Jun. So Shin will probably cry and Noe will take his tears. Shin could cry because of his feelings for Hiromi and because of all the misunderstandings that created this situation to hurt Noe. Noe said to Hiromi "They're beautiful...your tears". She wants to be able to cry like Hiromi can, in fact she used to cry a lot as Jun said before she took to heart her grandmother's act of "taking her tears away". There are times when Noe has wanted to cry but can't because of her belief that her grandmother took her tears away and she needs to regain her tears by taking them from someone dear to her.
The story is set up so that Shin is the one that Noe is supposed to take the tears from in order to regain her own tears but Jun also qualifies as a person dear to her. It makes it interesting now that Noe knows about Jun's feelings for her and she did express that she did'nt want him to move away. Noe has to reconcile all the new knowledge she did'nt have until recently. As she said to herself this episode at 17:25, she did'nt notice her brother's feelings for her, Hiromi's feelings for Shin, and Shin's true feelings for Hiromi. All those feelings existed before Noe met Shin. I think Noe herself has a decision to make in episode 13 because she said "Shinichiro said that I could fly" in the preview, and she seemed to be considering the feelings of the other three as well as her own in this episode.
We've seen Hiromi, Aiko, and Jun cry. Both Shin and Noe have not cried. Shin's own tears are probably what is needed for Noe to be able to cry again.
I have a comment I just thought of regarding the jumping off the tree. In previous episode, Noe has always needed Shin to catch her and asked him so. Maybe there's some significance in her climbing up and trying to jump off herself without him to catch her (if it was on purpose). If my interpretation is true it certainly shows a clear difference in Noe's character. She believes Hiromi is the one in Shin's heart and so she wants to go out of her way to try and forget about him or remove her attachment to him in the hope that it will be better for Shin.
Something else I noticed that was probably intentional from the writers is that Hiromi, after noticing Noe, is basically staring/glaring at her while Shin's own dance finishes without her noticing. There could be significance in the meaning behind this if you approach it from a certain perspective. The last thing is that I can see a contradiction between Hiromi's words about "being honest/seeing eye to eye" versus Shin's lie to her after the dance, as well as the misleading comments when he was getting dressed. If I had to make a bet I'd still wager on the Hiromi ending, but I can't see how the writers would include these things without relevance.
Did anyone else notice that at 4:30 of this episode, Shin said to himself "What was she saying? I was the one who superimposed Jibeta with myself. I was the one who did'nt realize Jibeta's strength".
Shin basically admitted that he represented himself as Jibeta at some point. I know there was a debate in episode 11 about who Jibeta was supposed to represent but here Shin is telling us that he "superimposed Jibeta" with himself. The writers might have given an element of foreshadowing by having Noe fall off the tree to parallel Jibeta's fall in episode 11, but at the time Shin was thinking of himself as Jibeta and not Noe because he "superimposed Jibeta" with himself.
With that being said, while I think the interpretations for Raigomaru and Jibeta in episodes 9-11 were valid for those episodes, episode 12 brought another shift in his thinking as he watched and listened to Noe at the beginning of the episode. Since she jumped off the tree at the end of the episode and the preview has Noe saying "Shinichiro said that I can fly", Shin likely has given up on the association of Jibeta and himself, and instead probably associates Jibeta with Noe now.
So now Shin is stuck with Raigomaru as representing him wanting to fly. Without using Jibeta as a separate representation of his feelings, I think it has evolved to the point where Raigomaru can represent him flying to either Hiromi or Noe because he has reconciled his separate feelings in Raigomaru and Jibeta into just Raigomaru.
I wanted to get to this issue next, since it does seem like the chickens are coming home to roost (no pun intended :heh:) with respect to the Raigomaru/Jibeta impressions that we began to establish in the last episode discussion.
As with everything else you point out and as ani_d pointed out, we're going to find out where all of this has led Shin in episode 13 and perhaps find out the final interpretations of the events and symbols employed earlier.
I don't really have much to add to your interpretation since you covered all of the points I'd imagine we got out of episode 12. There isn't too much to question since now that the Raigomaru/Jibeta issue has resolved, it's just a matter of who he'll fly for...
We've seen Hiromi, Aiko, and Jun cry. Both Shin and Noe have not cried. Shin's own tears are probably what is needed for Noe to be able to cry again.
Yes, we've only seen "fake tears" from Shin (I think?). Shin and Noe's "true tears" are going to take center stage in episode 13.
Yes, we've only seen "fake tears" from Shin (I think?). Shin and Noe's "true tears" are going to take center stage in episode 13.
Well, Shin had those worthless gutter tears as Noe put them in episode 4 when he was moping, thinking that Hiromi liked Jun. Shin did'nt really cry, he just offered to cry for Noe but she rejected them as worthless. Basically, at that time he was'nt ready to fly because he lacked sense of purpose and direction. Since he's going to be ready to fly in episode 13, his tears will now have value for Noe. The tears of someone ready to fly, maybe away from her whether it's his choice or because she sends him off. I always thought they had a sort of symbiotic relationship where she helps Shin in getting to where he wants to be and she regains her tears in the process, that was set up with the first two picture book scenes and the events since then support that.
Kobukson
2008-03-25, 17:34
Maybe there's some significance in her climbing up and trying to jump off herself without him to catch her (if it was on purpose).
The obvious significance is that it is EXACTLY what happened in his storybook. Jibeta trying to fly (and failing) when Raigomaru isn't looking. This does lead to the possibility of a tragic ending in that he killed off Jibeta and had Raigomaru grieving. Also, well Noe may never admit it, I kind of viewed it as a suicide attempt given her broken mental state and the fact she climbed up so high.
Something else I noticed that was probably intentional from the writers is that Hiromi, after noticing Noe, is basically staring/glaring at her while Shin's own dance finishes without her noticing. There could be significance in the meaning behind this if you approach it from a certain perspective. The last thing is that I can see a contradiction between Hiromi's words about "being honest/seeing eye to eye" versus Shin's lie to her after the dance, as well as the misleading comments when he was getting dressed. If I had to make a bet I'd still wager on the Hiromi ending, but I can't see how the writers would include these things without relevance.
Yeah, it's funny how Hiromi is mirroring Shin's mom's issue. Which does leave the possibility of a Hiromi ending since Shin's mom did get Shin's dad. Just wish we knew WHY she hated Hiromi's mom so much.
Anyways, I'm hoping for a Noe ending.
i just wanted to state that I ,again, really enjoyed the episode.
I am a Noe-fan through and through.
What I liked about the episode is when Akio sees Noe and Hiromi like fight over Shin and get hinted that she stills has feelings for Shin.
I got a basic question (without meaning any offense to the forum members):
Why do you keep saying "I am so disappoint of this", "that should have been more like that... " Why cant (at least some people) never accept the anime as it is? It is great that people are so moved by the anime that they would have wished for their fav character to act different, but why do you set yourself in a position where you basically say: "Writers so lame because...."
Maybe you got your own image of True Tears on how its supposed to be (and your perfectly well entitled to it) but why do you have to post that in the forum of things you really like (and I guess that would be anime) and still say "that is soo lame"
Edit Nr. 7 (or so)
I really have a hard time not being misunderstood. Last thing I want to add: My perception of thread like this is, that it is supposed to by a place where fans of the respective anime can share their experience with others. What they felt while watching, what they like most, what made them sad, who they root for, etc.
that's that, sorry for being so off-topic.
Second thing is, but that is really a personal one, that I dont like analysing a episode in every detail. What is most important to me when watching anime, is that I have a good time and feel that the world isnt that bad as it looks to me when I for once lift my head. Isnt it that this feeling gets lost if you are concentrating on details so much? It is my perception that every work of fiction is to be enjoyed as a whole, and not in detail.
thank you for your time
please dont feel offended in any way, that is a anime forum where anyone can post their opinion after all. But I hope so can I.
Why do you keep saying "I am so disappoint of this", "that should have been more like that... " Why cant (at least some people) never accept the anime as it is? It is great that people are so moved by the anime that they would have wished for their fav character to act different, but why do you set yourself in a position where you basically say: "Writers so lame because...."
Maybe you got your own image of True Tears on how its supposed to be (and your perfectly well entitled to it) but why do you have to post that in the forum of things you really like (and I guess that would be anime) and still say "that is soo lame"
Well, I think with True Tears; the anime itself has sort of demanded a more critical approach to viewing it in that it's set itself up as a more emotional drama that's trying to be something along the lines of an acclaimed drama.
As viewers I think we acknowledge the writers' intent and so for True Tears it's more comparable to reading a novel not just for enjoyment but also critically as opposed to purely for enjoyment without a critical eye, simply because I think the writers have set the bar higher in terms of expectations.
In that vein I think we do have to say where the writers might have gone astray (in our opinions) and where we found them to be directly on point.
Some of the biggest issues that have arisen are with respect to the handling of Shin's mom. I think even the biggest "fan" of True Tears can admit that Shin's mom wasn't the most solid of foundations upon which to build a relationship for Shin and Hiromi and the total lack of explanation of her behaviors is perhaps the largest flaw. Exposing those kinds of flaws is a part of our job as viewers of this kind of drama, while simultaneously acknowledging that the writers have created a very realistically paced and heartfelt drama with compelling characters.
I think the second aspect is that we can point out weaknesses as well such as Aiko's handling which in my personal opinion would have been superior if she had stayed in the role of the "elder statesman" to elucidate upon Hiromi's (and Noe's) actions to Shin and the audience.
As an example of my own case of viewing an anime "just as it is", I view Spice and Wolf with a far less critical eye than I do True Tears simply because I think S&W is just trying to tell a nice story but not really providing us with any groundbreaking drama. That's the kind of anime that I think the viewer just takes at face value for enjoyment, since it's not really trying to be a masterpiece of drama like True Tears.
One final thing, I also rate the episodes of True Tears in a more critical sense, so the benchmark is different for me than it is for other animes. For Spice and Wolf I've given plenty of episodes "Perfect 10"s simply because I think they've done what they've set out to do, which is entertain me and not really slow down or lose my interest as a viewer. For True Tears my ratings are based on how each episode advances the drama as well as answers questions from before and fits into the context of the whole story, so although my ratings are lower on average, it's no surprise that I view True Tears as the vastly superior anime (even though I acknowledge its flaws where I don't really see many in one like Spice and Wolf).
Reckoner
2008-03-25, 18:41
Vio5555 gave a good response, but I'll add my own.
Usually people who keep up and watch show "x" are more or less interested in show "x." Especially those of us who are on these boards and are replying to threads like so. In some cases people just keep up with a show in hopes of seeing something worthwhile in hopes of finding something very enjoyable. In both cases, when a show starts to throw in things that they didn't like to see, or if the show is heading in a direction that becomes unbearable for them, they are going to complain about it.
They have spent "y" time on show "x" and would like to see a nice conclusion to it to feel satisfied that they truly used their time to best of experience as possible. If not it is the same as watching like 3/5 of a movie and never seeing the rest.
I really can't wait for Saturday! I am not predicting anything. I am going th cowardly way with 50/50 for each girl. I am just not sure because they gave us episode 10 and I had Hiromi at 99% victory, then they gave us episode 12. I would have giving noe a 90% against 10% for hiromi if Shin had not hugged her and chased after in episode 9 and 10 respectively. So those two events help keep hiromi still at a respectable 50% chance.
AznSoulBoy
2008-03-25, 20:02
^
In regards to the last quoted quote... I personally don't care how bad the couple are together, as long as they're childhood friends I will most probably will ship them together. I just can't help it as it's my absolute moe element, and me trying to explain that would be like me trying to explain why I like RPGs the best. That is, I would ship NaruXKeitaro (early divorce if I've ever seen one :p) over any other couple other than MutsuhimeXKeitaro, just on the strength of the two being friends in childhood. Thankfully, that's the only example I can think of looking down my Big List of Shows Where Osana-Najimi Appeared (TM), as usually is the case the vast majority of the time, the childhood friend IS the one most suited for the protagonist IMO.
Also, shipping is not the act of liking a character the best, but the act of rooting (or just wanting to happen) for a certain couple to be together. For example, 'I ship KotomiXTomoya in Clannad' makes sense. 'I ship Kotomi in Clannad' does not. While at least one (if not both) of the characters are usually the favourites of a person and thus is the most common reason why a particular person ships they way they do, there are times when that isn't the case. An example would be me, as I like Youhei and Kyou the best in Clannad, but my only ship there is KotomiXTomoya. So yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean that if you ship a certain way, that you actually like the characters in question the best (or even if at all).
In regards to Shinichiro's indecisiveness, I neither like it nor dislike it, nor do I think it should be detrimental to the judgement of a character if he/she ever was one. I'm not even frustrated by it, nor do I think I ever was in any show. It's a fact of most anime romances, and the exceptions are rare to be seen. As such, I've learned to live with it since I would be very frequently dealing with it. My only beef with it (as small as it is) is that it's overused and as such leads to many unoriginal characters, but if originality was so commonplace, nothing would be original at all lol. XD
Don't let me get started again. :heh:
Actually, maybe I will, since this will be short. First off, definition of harem greatly varies from person to person (if the Clannad debate is of any indication), so let's take a third party database that actually lists harem as a genre in order to avoid arguements on that end. First one that comes to mind is anidb.net, but I'm willing to use another database as I don't think the results will change.
Ai Yori Aoshi
w wish
Gift
Soul Link
Love Hina
Da Capo
Futakoi
Kage Kara Mamoru
Sumomo*
Kenichi*
Kanon*
School Rumble* (lol forgot this in the original list, as the flute faction is going strong in the manga last time I heard)
Comic Party Revolution*
ONE*
Umishou*
x- Ichigo 100%
x- shuffle
x- Clannad(don't shoot the messenger, as anidb DOES list is as such :p)
x- seto no hanayome*
x- Magikano*
x- I''s pure*
x- Canvas 2*
Ones marked in * are in the general harem list of anidb but don't have the harem label in their own respective general information page of that series.
9/12 (15/22 if you use the general list), or 75% (68%), which is close to the total average of 70% from 2000-2007 and as such within statistical error. So yeah, harem shows are nothing special when it comes to usual childhood friends win rate... it's just that particular show with THAT yandere has forever tainted the archetype with the illusion that they usually lose, as their few losses are so much more spectacular than the flashiness of their wins combined in any genre. :rolleyes:
Not that anything of the above has to do with the win chance of Hiromi right now...
Haha, you're right. I'm sorry about that.
anyway, as reckoner said it's right. It's unbearable to watch some animes that we like. Like...Naruto :(. hahaha.
btw, guys. I hope this is not true but if it is. I would be damn mad. I saw that in RC, so I want to share it for u guys.
"virox at 7:30 pm on March 25th, 2008
I’ve heard that there will be a second season…
WHY CAN’T THEY JUST LET IT BE WITH ONE GREAT SEASON!?
I can’t stand this shit, why do they always have to pull the last bit of money out of a grainfull anime?? I think that the second season will be a less in quality.
Source: Moetaku Fansubs, looks like they get this information from bandai…
“there will be a second season and Haruhi will make a cameo appearence”
“it’s information given to us by Bandai!”"
Why stop at Haruhi, that rumor should've included Lelouch, Light and Son Goku! Also golthin going with a cowardly 50/50 prediction means your prediction streak ends imo
relentlessflame
2008-03-25, 21:01
btw, guys. I hope this is not true but if it is. I would be damn mad. I saw that in RC, so I want to share it for u guys.
"virox at 7:30 pm on March 25th, 2008
I’ve heard that there will be a second season…
WHY CAN’T THEY JUST LET IT BE WITH ONE GREAT SEASON!?
I can’t stand this shit, why do they always have to pull the last bit of money out of a grainfull anime?? I think that the second season will be a less in quality.
Source: Moetaku Fansubs, looks like they get this information from bandai…
“there will be a second season and Haruhi will make a cameo appearence”
“it’s information given to us by Bandai!”" That is officially the worst lie ever. Bandai Visual Japan has nothing to do with Haruhi. Whoever made up this "rumour" is ignorant enough to confuse Bandai Entertainment USA with Bandai Visual Japan. Plain stupid. Don't believe everything you read.
AznSoulBoy
2008-03-25, 21:35
That is officially the worst lie ever. Bandai Visual Japan has nothing to do with Haruhi. Whoever made up this "rumour" is ignorant enough to confuse Bandai Entertainment USA with Bandai Visual Japan. Plain stupid. Don't believe everything you read.
That's what I thought. I wasn't sure until someone said it and fortunately relentlessflame replied. Haha, well it relieves me now. I wasn't sure so I decided to check like every sites and they were no such a thing. Anyway, it wouldn't make sense. Sorry about that stupid "rumour" whoever said it.
Why stop at Haruhi, that rumor should've included Lelouch, Light and Son Goku! Also golthin going with a cowardly 50/50 prediction means your prediction streak ends imo
Doesn't count :)! I said I was not making any more predictions in True tears after my prediction about Aiko breaking up with Nobuse and becoming friends with him came true! I just couldn't figure out Shin, I have not much experience with the "good boy" archetype as it is VERY rarely used in anime.
relentlessflame
2008-03-25, 23:11
Setting aside the whole romance thing for a minute, arguably the most interesting thing that happened in this episode was the turnaround regarding Raigomaru and Jibeta. I've been giving that whole conversation a whole lot of thought (my head hurts...) and the one thing it does do is answer one key question about how it is Noe will come to cry again. In short, she has to choose to. They've spun around the "you can fly" thing from Shinichirou to Noe and, in Shinichirou's mind, it's because her heart/motivation is pure. She wants to fly, not for others, not for flame or glory, and not to set a record. Raigomaru takes off. Combine this with what Noe said in the preview, "Shinichirou says I can fly", and you can begin to see what the show is trying to say. Shinichirou's starting to realize what it is he can do to release Noe's tears -- help her fly. In other words, in all this time, she's being looking out for him, and now he's going to look out for her.
If Shinichirou's going to encourage Noe to fly, then it begs the question -- can Shinichirou fly himself? If Shinichirou is Jibeta, then he can choose not to fly and look up and straight ahead proudly, while Noe flies away. That's the total opposite of the analogy I had thought they were driving at, but strangely it still works.
As I've said before, regardless of the ending, it's certain that the show will resolve both Hiromi and Noe's stories. While I do have my theories about how the romance will turn out (and despite having given it a lot of thought, I ultimately haven't changed my mind), what I ultimately hope for more than anything else is that they do justice to all the characters in the ending. That, to me, will be a true happy ending; as usual, shipping wars be damned. :p
(Edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is, we've gotten so focused on the romantic pairing that we might miss that this show has a lot more going for it than just "who's he going to end up with?!" This is why I generally don't follow episode threads; I prefer to just "enjoy the ride".)
Setting aside the whole romance thing for a minute, arguably the most interesting thing that happened in this episode was the turnaround regarding Raigomaru and Jibeta. I've been giving that whole conversation a whole lot of thought (my head hurts...) and the one thing it does do is answer one key question about how it is Noe will come to cry again. In short, she has to choose to. They've spun around the "you can fly" thing from Shinichirou to Noe and, in Shinichirou's mind, it's because her heart/motivation is pure. She wants to fly, not for others, not for flame or glory, and not to set a record. Raigomaru takes off. Combine this with what Noe said in the preview, "Shinichirou says I can fly", and you can begin to see what the show is trying to say. Shinichirou's starting to realize what it is he can do to release Noe's tears -- help her fly. In other words, in all this time, she's being looking out for him, and now he's going to look out for her.
Now, That is certainly doing Noe justice. ^___^
I just want to say this rings true. I thought the scene with Miyokishi and Shin was pretty random as well, and I don't think the writers will just animate that scene cuz they feel like it. Like you said, I think they just want to emphasize that even Shin himself doesn't know what he's doing anymore. Out of all 11 episodes, this is the only episode where he starts to really break away from his old self--the one who couldn't fly.
@vio5555
Also, while it's true Shin didn't verbally express what's on his mind about Hiromi, his expressions and his eye movements tell us a whole lot. Nonverbal communication is way more expressive than verbal. We've been shown a lot of facial close-up of Shin here, especially when talking to Hiromi. It may be too subtle to notice, but if you're looking for subtle hints, there you go. He's been like that, ever since ep 11, and it just got worse in this episode. I do feel like he's being a little bit of a jerk for lying to Hiromi too, but that simple gesture tells us a lot as well. Hence, this is why I think episode 13 will be interesting. We get to confirm our suspicions lol
Though I quoted ani_d above, this response also directed at Reckoner, since my previous post might not be clear enough.
I don't think I've ever discounted the fact that characters in the series have dropped hints via bodily gestures. In fact, I don't think anyone who made a lot of insightful comments around here can do so without ever looking at those gestures. The fact that most of the words characters uttered are almost always "beside the point" basically force every one of us to also look at those gestures anyway. And if you take a really good look at those gestures from several perspectives (be it Hiromi-shipping view, or Noe-shipping view, or other views), you'll see that those gestures themselves didn't tell us exactly what they meant. They can still be interpreted in several ways when pieced together. This is the very reason why I used the word "ambiguous", and that's because they really are.
And this writers' move just doesn't start in episode 11 either: the series has always been like this from the very beginning. We just didn't really mind it earlier because there were still many episodes away, still many things that need to be told, so we hadn't expected ourselves to understand the whole series during that time frame. But as we reached the final episodes, at some point we expect ourselves to foresee how the series end. Yet all we've seen were ambiguous words and gestures that don't really tell us directly of how they're going to end the series. Similar to what you said, I don't think they animated it like this just because they feel like it. It can't be coincidence that characters' actions and words were ambiguous to us until the very end of their plot arcs. It has to be intentional. They want us to keep guessing til the very end.
And as I've said previously, Shin should have known which girl he chose by the point he faced Hiromi already (as he figured it all out during the dance). Though he probably was confused when he talked with Nobuse, that confusion is now cleared: you can see determination in his eyes (Heck, even the crowd who watched him dance could probably see his determination also). Yet he didn't clearly say it out. And I couldn't come up with a good reason why he did so except the fact that the writers just want to save revelation for the next episode. That's why I said it's unrealistic. It's unrealistic for Shin to act in such a way when he can resolved Hiromi's frustration with just a couple of words (be it "I love you" or "I just love Noe"). It's very unreasonable for aiming to do things properly and yet ignoring it when such opportunity arrived.
Reckoner
2008-03-26, 01:04
Maybe he didn't say anything to Hiromi because he's saving her as a backup plan :heh:.
No but really I can see what you are saying, it wasn't necessary to have this scene, it probably would've been better if he ran off and Hiromi never faced him. This would've been far better considering the emotional development he was "supposedly" undertaking. But because the writers I believe up to this point have been nearly flawless (With the exception of the mother of course), I wasn't as taken back as some other people were. I'll wait to pass judgement on Shinchiro ext episode when we actually learn what the hell is on his mind :upset:
Well, since I came from the same angle as b0nyb0y I don't have much to add myself to that discussion since all points have been expounded multiple times, but I do understand why some posters (Reckoner, ani_d) had decided to wait till episode 13 for Shin's actions.
@ Relentlessflame
Great post.
The confirmation that Shin had indeed been forcing a part of himself on to Jibeta and the subsequent unwinding in some sense of the position is perhaps one of the most important realizations in episode 12. jaisrh brought up the chickens a few pages ago, but that definitely seems to be the area where things have been changing in a predictive manner if any.
Personally I'm leaning towards an interpretation of Noe representing Jibeta taking flight for the first time of her own will in some sense. jaisrh's post on page 10 (I think) goes into it in detail, and I agree with the bulk of that analysis on the issue.
But, of course, as before we'll only find out which interpretation is correct in episode 13, as we did in this episode about the interpretations we developed after 11.
Darkside
2008-03-26, 02:56
After watching this ep, i've begun to feel insecure about a Shin x Hiromi ending :(.
i dun get this anime anymore!? :S
who does shinichiro want to be with?
(Personally i want Hiromi ending)
cloudninja
2008-03-26, 05:03
After bringing up the fact that I thought Shin was represented by Jibeta in episode 11, and Raigomaru in episodes 9-10 in some sort of internal representation of Shin, I just kind of stepped back and watched as some posters fleshed it out and it was debated over in the ep 11 thread.
For the most part I agree with jaisrh's analysis from ep 11 and ep 12 regarding the evolution of Shin's view about Raigomaru and Jibeta. vio5555 and b0nyb0y also had some good posts on the matter and all 3 of them expanded on the idea quite well.
Setting aside the whole romance thing for a minute, arguably the most interesting thing that happened in this episode was the turnaround regarding Raigomaru and Jibeta. I've been giving that whole conversation a whole lot of thought (my head hurts...) and the one thing it does do is answer one key question about how it is Noe will come to cry again. In short, she has to choose to. They've spun around the "you can fly" thing from Shinichirou to Noe and, in Shinichirou's mind, it's because her heart/motivation is pure. She wants to fly, not for others, not for flame or glory, and not to set a record. Raigomaru takes off. Combine this with what Noe said in the preview, "Shinichirou says I can fly", and you can begin to see what the show is trying to say. Shinichirou's starting to realize what it is he can do to release Noe's tears -- help her fly. In other words, in all this time, she's being looking out for him, and now he's going to look out for her.
If Shinichirou's going to encourage Noe to fly, then it begs the question -- can Shinichirou fly himself? If Shinichirou is Jibeta, then he can choose not to fly and look up and straight ahead proudly, while Noe flies away. That's the total opposite of the analogy I had thought they were driving at, but strangely it still works.
After resisting the idea that Jibeta was Shin at first when I brought it up in the ep 11 thread, I think you've given it some serious thought and came up with an excellent and viable analysis of what happened in ep 12 regarding Raigomaru and Jibeta. There's definitely some interesting paths they could take regarding Shin and Noe respectively in their decision to fly.
On another note, I have identified it as track 32 being played during the final scene that has Noe jumping off the tree (is that supposed to be her first attempt at flight?) I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that it was track 32 during that final scene. A strong supporting clue about the role she plays? I'll comment a bit more about track 32 and Noe in the speculations and theories thread.
Great post again, relentlessflame. I'm in agreement with you on this.
To me, ep. 12 is all about Shin getting his feelings resolved (not situations, just feelings), while at the same time stir up the tensions inside Hiromi and Noe's hearts. It goes without saying that Noe is in confusion now, and Hiromi is feeling extremely insecure about Shin. As it is now, I expect Shin to help them to finally resolve their feelings in the next episode.
Since around the middle of the series, I got an idea that this series is all about main characters gaining courage to be true to themselves. If you look at it, we see the pattern here. At the beginning of the series, all of them were locked up inside their own emotional deadlocks and couldn't be true to themselves...
Shin wants to reach out to Hiromi, but he lacks confidence to do so, and Hiromi stayed too deep inside her shell that it's impossible for him to reach her. So he didn't be true to his feelings.
Hiromi wants to reach out to Shin, but because of the lies and abuse she's got from Shin's mother, she decided to seal it all away. She didn't be true to her feelings.
Aiko wants to reach out to Shin, but due to the fact that She went out with Nobuse, she didn't dare to say how she feels. Thus, she didn't be true to her feelings.
Jun wants to reach out to Noe, but because it's unacceptable to habor such feeling for her, he tried to avoid facing the fact that he's in love with her. So he didn't be true to his own feelings.
The complication about losing her granny and not being able to cry is also an indication of Noe not being 100% true to her own feelings either. (And later in this ep., how she handled the situation when realizing Hiromi's feelings and Jun's feelings in this episode also confirmed this. She knows she's sad, but she's holding it all back and ask herself if it's ok for a person like her to cry.)As the series progress, with Noe played the role as a catalyst to the whole situation, one-by-one, each of the main characters broke free of their emo-deadlocks, be true to themselves, and cried as they revealed/accepted their true feelings. So to me, "true tears" is basically tears that accompany the act of being "true to oneself".
So, if we go by this interpretation, there are still two people who haven't cried their true tears yet: Shin and Noe. So, I believe this final episode shouldn't only be about Shin helping Noe and Hiromi resolve their feelings, but also about Shin being true to his feelings (and cry) as well. Maybe your question about whether Shin will or won't fly will be answered at the same time we get to see his tears.
The main concern I have now, though, is that there are still so many things that need to resolve in one single episode if they wanna go the "happy ending" route. I'm afraid the ending might turn out to be too rush. I just really do hope it won't turn out that way. This is one of the best series I've seen so far...
Ascaloth
2008-03-26, 08:58
Blog article is up,
[RIUVA] True Tears, Episode 12 (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1018)
Yep, I'm taking a harsher tone towards this series in this article that I had before. The writers have one more episode to make me eat my words, and I actually sincerely hope they manage to do so, but until then...
Sinestra
2008-03-26, 10:25
RestlessFlame and cloudninja brilliant post as usual.
My worry with Shin was never limited to who he would pick in the end, it was the steps of growth he took to get there and his picture book is great example of his own growth or his attempt at growth. I was annoyed with him in episode 12 during the scene with him and Hiromi where he ran off. But i can not really blame his as i thought the scene was pointless i saw no reason to have it. It would have made more sense for him not to see Hiromi and go see Noe about whatever it is needed to see her about. I still feel Shin is trying to do everything properly hes just not sure how to go about it
Trying to figure out just if Shin is represented by Jibeta has forced me broaden my view a little and im still unsure about it, but one thing i am sure about is that none of these events would have been possible without Noe shes is catalyst which i noticed by in episode 7. Weather Shin is going to thank Noe for her inspirations or hes going to let her know she is the one he loves is a bi-product to me im more interested in the steps he took to come to his resolution.
Interesting fact the screen shots for episode 13 has Shin's mom at Hiromi's place having a chat that will be most interesting. I hope it goes well or at least with the mom acknowledging she knows about Hiromi's feelings for Shin or finally reveling the past about her hatred for Hiromi's mother.
Reckoner
2008-03-26, 11:42
I've always taken "flying" as being with Noe and not flying, choosing to be with Hiromi. When Raigomaru was the focus, Noe was on his mind, when Jibeta became the focus, Hiromi was on his mind. Jibeta chose not to fly, Shinchiro realized this and then comes to the conclusion that he didn't understand that not flying was his choice, not just something he couldn't do. His true strength was the choice, now he is choosing to fly, hence the refocus back on Raigomaru. Jibeta and Raigomaru just represents what side of Shinchiro's mind is winning out, like some sort of mental battle.
Although in the book Jibeta is trying to fly at some point, this was just showing how Shinchiro thought not flying was his destiny. Raigomaru was spurred back up by the crashing down of realization as he witnessed what Jibeta truly was.
The last part is the weakest of my interpretation.
Sinestra
2008-03-26, 11:46
I've always taken "flying" as being with Noe and not flying, choosing to be with Hiromi. When Raigomaru was the focus, Noe was on his mind, when Jibeta became the focus, Hiromi was on his mind. Jibeta chose not to fly, Shinchiro realized this and then comes to the conclusion that he didn't understand that not flying was his choice, not just something he couldn't do. His true strength was the choice, now he is choosing to fly, hence the refocus back on Raigomaru. Jibeta and Raigomaru just represents what side of Shinchiro's mind is winning out, like some sort of mental battle.
Although in the book Jibeta is trying to fly at some point, this was just showing how Shinchiro thought not flying was his destiny. Raigomaru was spurred back up by the crashing down of realization as he witnessed what Jibeta truly was.
The last part is the weakest of my interpretation.
Seems reasonable now lets just see if the writers are reasonable. Iv recently wondered if all this emphasizes on flying was really Noe not Shin. Noe is the one that is obsessed with flying Shin only thought about it because of Noe. I wonder if her tears are key to her being able to fly.
KholdStare
2008-03-26, 12:03
Wow, lots of great posts in this thread, with no flaming also. The one thing True Tears produced for sure is good, meaningful discussions, but I want the ending to at least be well. Let's not take the School Days route and say that the best ending is for Shin to be with no one, because he deserves it. No matter how much you try to make sense of anime, the best endings have some type of a fantasy feel to it, and I would like True Tears to end as such.
About the Shin and Jibeta thing, it's still kind of cloudy in my head. Of course, it should be, because the series never actually explained it. I have a feeling that it will become like Air and we will have to come up with our own interpretations after the series end about what flying and true tears are about. I will have to muse about this series more, but the one thing that we must keep in mind is that no one knows if Jibeta wants to fly. In a way, this can relate to Shin, but I still need to analyze the flying concept some more. I'm not going to make any extra assumptions until I see the next episode.
And about the romance aspects of the series I feel sorry for Noe, a lot, especially about the Jun incident. The most interesting thing about that incident is that Noe either one, became very confused afterwards, or two, completely understood everything around her. The one thing to realize here is not to say bad things about Shin. Everything that is great about this series depends on Shin's stupidity, and rarely will an anime be good with a "smart" male lead (Tomoya Okazaki). In fact, having been with a crazy chicken lover like Noe and dealing with incest/Hiromi-hater mother problems, Shin would naturally be confused.
relentlessflame
2008-03-26, 15:07
After resisting the idea that Jibeta was Shin at first when I brought it up in the ep 11 thread, I think you've given it some serious thought and came up with an excellent and viable analysis of what happened in ep 12 regarding Raigomaru and Jibeta. There's definitely some interesting paths they could take regarding Shin and Noe respectively in their decision to fly.Yeah, the "flip" that I hadn't anticipated was the show actually pointing towards the possibility that Shin couldn't fly and that that choice was okay (the key was the choice), but the one who could actually fly was Noe (if she chooses to). I said last episode that I believed Jibeta represented, simply, the one who couldn't fly -- the antithesis to Raigomaru. What this episode did, on the other hand, is argue that Raigomaru and Jibeta aren't opposites, they're equals that made different choices. That revelation came to both Noe and Shinichirou in this episode: that they had both misunderstood Jibeta's strength. Noe thought she was Jibeta, but she wasn't, since Jibeta had made his choice and was standing proudly. Shinichirou thought Jibeta was pitiful for not being able to fly (like himself), but now he sees that he was wrong about Jibeta; the important thing is to face reality decisively. To fly or not to fly; the key is to decide.
I still have some mixed feelings about the idea that Jibeta and Raigomaru represent Shinichirou's feelings towards each of the two girls. I think that was really the main thing I objected to after last episode. I find that to be a bit too constraining, and I think this episode just threw a lot more into the mix to mess up that equation. What the shows seems to be suggesting at the moment (to me anyway) is that Shin has accepted his role as Jibeta, and has now recognized that it's not him but Noe that can fly. That's what Noe's "eyes that couldn't see anything" were missing.
What's most interesting about this flip is what it means in comparison to the early episodes. Noe used to get annoyed at Shin for not flying -- for looking to the ground, for worrying about Hiromi, and so on. At the time I felt that she was insinuating that Hiromi was bringing him down and preventing him from reaching his true potential. I also figured that Shinichirou's ability to fly may come at the cost of leaving her behind -- that if she herself couldn't fly, he'd fly away from her. (This was tied to Raigomaru's flight being on the occasion of his death.) This was sort of Noe's way of saying "you're better than this" -- look to the sky, and fly! But Shinichirou kept resisting at every turn, and kept looking at the ground at people like Hiromi; he stayed fixated on her for the whole length of the story. Noe wondered why he was hesitating -- she told him he could fly, so why, like Jibeta, wasn't he taking off? Enter this episode's realization. Now the tables have turned; it's Shinichirou's turn. Just as he's no Raigomaru, she's no Jibeta -- rather than looking to him on the ground and being tied down, she needs to look to the sky! This is Shinichirou's way of saying that "you're better than this"; that he's chosen to look to the ground, but she's the one who can fly. In other words, he's releasing her to her true potential, and that means not letting her be tied down by someone like him.
Anyway, that's probably just a lot of different ways of restating what I already said, but it's by explaining that I flesh out what I'm thinking. So don't get too annoyed if I resist an idea and then eventually come around (it wouldn't be the first time, as you know...) -- it just takes me more time to think it through. :heh:
AznSoulBoy
2008-03-26, 15:54
I don't know how u could think that far recentlessflame. How much time did it take? LOL
It's been like 2 years I knew u and u always surprise me with ur arguments. :)
(Edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is, we've gotten so focused on the romantic pairing that we might miss that this show has a lot more going for it than just "who's he going to end up with?!" This is why I generally don't follow episode threads; I prefer to just "enjoy the ride".)
Me too...
You people should try it out sometime. Don't watch it like a harem anime thinking about who will end up with who...
JUST WATCH THE DAMN SHOW.
That's the original intention. Not to start all these "shipping wars".
Also great ep, awesome cliffhanger. Made me go "What the hell?". And I was right... Jun really did all that he did just for Noe, under the pretense that his love for her wasn't yet at that level. But Hiromi made him realize otherwise. And yeah.. Jun isn't a freak. He just had too much affection for her because of their family's situation. Trying to take care of her in place of her mom, dad, and grandma. He realized his feelings now. When you're too close, it starts to feel natural, and there are things he didn't realize. Like his love for Noe. (Sorta like in Kimikiss)
mikesince83
2008-03-26, 16:08
Just picked up this series recently since CLANNAD and Kimi Kiss finished. I’m glad I waited…I think watching True Tears along with the others (especially Kimi Kiss) would have been too much. I’m sure comparisons of the two have been discussed to death, so I’ll spare you any comments on similarities.
The Art: First off, the animation style is superb. From an artistic perspective it falls in as one of my favorites this season, second only to Zetsubou Sensei. It stands out particularly during scenes with a lot of people on screen where often even unimportant characters in the background will move about creating a very realistic feel. And of course the colors implemented throughout the fall segment of the series were breathtaking.
The Plot: Things started slow, but I had the opportunity to move through at a quick pace, so that helped considerably. This is the first romance this season that had me guessing from episode one as to which pairing was going to finish out the series, and even with only one episode left I’m still not completely confident in my assumption. The female protagonists have unique personalities that for the most part deviate from the stereotypical roll, and the directors have handled the relationship development well so far.
This Episode: Now that things have been wrapped up with Aiko, It’s good to things kicking into overdrive for the other girls. Recent events must have been emotionally devastating for Noe. Not only is her brother leaving, but she’s misunderstood his intentions prompting her to re evaluate the whole relationship. Her tree top jump was clearly intentional, possibly indicating contemplation of suicide. Shin manages to step away from his indecisive personality for a moment to chase after her, but is he doing so for love, or closure? And if it’s love, how will Hiromi cope with her worst nightmare, being left behind?
The Ending: Honestly, it’s tough for me to see a weak ending coming from this series considering how good it’s been to this point. I have my reservations as to the possible outcome, but like the rest of you I’ll have to wait for 13 to see how they pan out.
relentlessflame
2008-03-26, 16:23
I don't know how u could think that far recentlessflame. How much time did it take? LOL
It's been like 2 years I knew u and u always surprise me with ur arguments. :)Well, thanks, but it's been far too long. A lot of other people in this thread have been three steps ahead of me already! :heh: Seriously, though, the fact that so many people seem to believe we're heading for a Noe ending after episode 12 has had me seriously perplexed since Saturday. I really wanted to know if I've just been blind all this time for some reason (and it isn't particularly because I like one of the girls over the other - on the surface, I wouldn't mind an ending with either girl), or if there's some little tidbit I was missing. I knew the answer had to be in Episode 12, and it took me a good 4 or 5 hours (at home, in bed, on the bus, at work... :heh: ) to figure out what was being said and what it might mean (even though it came instinctively to some people). And as vio said, I still can't be 100% sure until they complete the story in episode 13. And, like I said, I really don't think it has anything to this with this massive shipping war that brewed around here; it's about Raigomaru and Jibeta; it's about Noe, Shinichirou, Hiromi, and Aiko; it's about flying and crying; it's about what it means and what it takes to finally release one's True Tears. That's a powerful picture, and much more interesting than "the final score".
I'm very much against the idea, so frequently quoted these days, that "this is anime -- anything can happen!" All stories have a logic that can be followed, and the clues are always there if we're attentive enough. If we don't see the way the story's going, that just means we aren't perceptive enough. At least, that's the way I choose to look at it. To me, watching anime is about understanding the story the writers are trying to convey and appreciating the characters they so carefully created. That's why I won't be contented until I understand exactly what the anime's been trying to say all this time -- thankfully, it won't be long until the anime answers that question itself. :p
Anyway, I digress... back to the discussion!
The Ending: Honestly, it’s tough for me to see a weak ending coming from this series considering how good it’s been to this point. I have my reservations as to the possible outcome, but like the rest of you I’ll have to wait for 12 to see how they pan out.
Did you mean ep 13:heh: Good review btw.
I think the twist that Noe and Shin saw themselves as Jibeta was really well done. All this time, we were looking at the special chicken Raigomaru eventhough Jibeta was just as special as Raigomaru. Poor chicken has no clue the people around him are throwing all this symbolism at him. Based on the previews, I also think Shin is going to bring out the best in Noe next episode. My bet is not only Noe, but Hiromi is also in for a change.
And, like I said, I really don't think it has anything to this with this massive shipping war that brewed around here; it's about Raigomaru and Jibeta; it's about Noe, Shinichirou, Hiromi, and Aiko; it's about flying and crying; it's about what it means and what it takes to finally release one's True Tears. That's a powerful picture, and much more interesting than "the final score".
I'm most interested to find out how they weave the story of Raigomaru/Jibeta into the ending.
I imagine it'll be something like episode 11 where we had a lot of it happening alongside the episode, so it should be intriguing to see where it actually goes.
ForgedGlory
2008-03-26, 17:29
I don't mean to be an ass.. but was I the only one that laughed when Noe jumped off the tree? I mean.. lol, they could've at least done a dramatic slow-mo or something, but it was like watching a blooper video with someone falling out of a tree. XD
On a side note, Shinichiro looks pimp in his samurai gear.
Guardian Enzo
2008-03-26, 22:59
I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of the third potential ending - Shin X nobody (that's nobody, not Nobuse, mind you!). Everyone including myself has pretty much assumed - bar a brief spurt of fantastical Ai-chan support in the middle - that Shin ends up with either Hiromi or Noe. But, in watching 12, it appears to me that isn't a lock. There are enough roadblocks in either relationship, that I could easily see a "non-ending" ending where nobody is ready to be with anybody, and things are left rather muddied.
Mind you, I hope not - I've been pulling for Hiromi since the first episode and I'll be disappointed with anything else, even more so with no firm resolution, but it could happen. I felt relatively confident in a Hiromi ending until all signs in 12 pointed to Noe, but I think that's one last (effective) feint by the writers to throw us off the trail. TBH, I think a Shin x Noe ending would be pretty much totally inconsistent with the plot and character development of the entire series up to this point. Effectively, much of the first 11 episodes would have to be tossed out the window as a big "Never mind!" if that happened. But this show has surprised me before, so who knows.
From the beginning, I have been delighted with this series, and it definitely had the beginnings of a masterpiece, perhaps to become a defining work of the genre. Virtually every aspect of the show has been brilliant, and the characters very real and likable, despite their flaws. Somewhere around episode 11 though, I have lost nearly all enthusiasm for this show, and I finally realized why. It comes down to one thing really, and sadly, I think that the show is beyond repair at this point.
At the start, Noe was a great character, but as the show continues, I have grown increasingly weary of the chicken nonsense. At this point, the metaphor has gotten completely out of hand. People are not chickens, and Noe has been reduced from eccentric to a mere nutcase. After reading pages upon pages here about the various interpretations of the metaphor, it finally dawned on me. If it is so incomprehensible, it is simply a lousy metaphor. By using it as the foundation of the story, the results are obvious. A metaphor should be used as subtle element which fits into the story like in Blue Drop, not something so forced which literally turns people into chickens, and equates human emotions to that of fowl.
The wreckage of this lousy metaphor litters an otherwise beautiful drama. It is far too pervasive, and it no longer feels like the characters are acting according to their own will, but rather to conform to the twisted and increasingly absurd plot. Far from increasing anticipation with the shocking plot twists and cliffhangers, they have achieved exactly the opposite. After ruining Noe's character, my only thought at the end of this episode was, "God, I hope she is dead." Unfortunately, I don't think they will spare us from whatever random melodrama is likely to follow.
As for Shin's "doing everything properly," ha! His recent actions make no sense based on the characters as developed, and the present situation. They appear to be motivated purely by the author's desire to introduce more uncertainly and melodrama, rather than following the existing story to a logical conclusion. Whichever way it goes, they have destroyed Shin's character, in the process. His recent actions hurt everyone around him, and only serve to invite hate for his character.
In particular, not talking to Noe at the pier when he had the chance, and then suddenly having an urgent need to chase her after the festival while treating Hiromi like a pebble on the road. Whatever his intentions are, he could have spared a few words for her. While the situation is still not clear to the viewers, it is now clear to Shin. It is no longer the convoluted mess it once was, and he can make no acceptable excuse for his total lack of consideration of other peoples' feelings.
While I have had no interest in shipping, at this point I must favor a Shin/Noe ending. Why? Well, since they have ruined both characters, I wouldn't want to inflict them on anyone else. Poor Hiromi. While she is still showing some weakness, she recognizes her faults, and continues to grow as a character. Even considering her faults, she has never acted out of malice, and remains the only character of the three that I still like in the end. What a shame.
Mind you, I hope not - I've been pulling for Hiromi since the first episode and I'll be disappointed with anything else, even more so with no firm resolution, but it could happen. I felt relatively confident in a Hiromi ending until all signs in 12 pointed to Noe, but I think that's one last (effective) feint by the writers to throw us off the trail. TBH, I think a Shin x Noe ending would be pretty much totally inconsistent with the plot and character development of the entire series up to this point. Effectively, much of the first 11 episodes would have to be tossed out the window as a big "Never mind!" if that happened. But this show has surprised me before, so who knows.
I would have agreed with you but to step back and look at the entire plot objectively, essentially the Shin+Hiromi relationship has been relatively static ever since the childhood memory with the brief lull during the "Shin's mother's lie" period. On the other hand, the development has clearly showed the effect and impact by Noe's appearance, on both the plotlines and characters, which is finally recognized fully by Shin. After thinking about it, I don't believe that a Noe ending would be inconsistent at all.
Guardian Enzo
2008-03-26, 23:40
At the start, Noe was a great character, but as the show continues, I have grown increasingly weary of the chicken nonsense. At this point, the metaphor has gotten completely out of hand. People are not chickens, and Noe has been reduced from eccentric to a mere nutcase. After reading pages upon pages here about the various interpretations of the metaphor, it finally dawned on me. If it is so incomprehensible, it is simply a lousy metaphor. By using it as the foundation of the story, the results are obvious. A metaphor should be used as subtle element which fits into the story like in Blue Drop, not something so forced which literally turns people into chickens, and equates human emotions to that of fowl.
While I disagree with some of your post, I think you hit the nail on the head with that point. I know we're all supposed to love Noe and all, but frankly the last couple of eps I've more or less concluded that she's basically a nutcase. I suppose it shows Shinichiro's compassionate side if he feels sorry for her, but really, she isn't anyone who should be in a romantic relationship with anybody. What, Shin is supposed to declare his love for her because she took her chicken fantasies literally and jumped out of a tree? Sorry, but that's a rather pathetic act if you ask me. I do feel badly for the girl - she lost her parents and beloved grandmother, her brother is a perv, and life has generally treated her rather roughly. But what she needs isn't a boyfriend, it's a therapist.
I would have agreed with you but to step back and look at the entire plot objectively, essentially the Shin+Hiromi relationship has been relatively static ever since the childhood memory with the brief lull during the "Shin's mother's lie" period. On the other hand, the development has clearly showed the effect and impact by Noe's appearance, on both the plotlines and characters, which is finally recognized fully by Shin. After thinking about it, I don't believe that a Noe ending would be inconsistent at all.
I disagree completely and you will see why if the ending goes to Noe (unless 13 is really well done in that aspect) in a Good or Bad Ending thread similar to the one in the KGNE sub forum. I assure you I have hardly overlooked anything at this stage unlike some Noe fans who seem to think Shin was thinking of Noe when he kissed Hiromi (from the time it focuses on Hiromi's lips and up Noe is no longer in his mind) and didn't even notice how happy he was when he arrived home afterwards in 11.
I'm not going to waste 1 hour typing up an essay on why it would be an inconsistent when it might not even happen yet. There is good reason why people (I'm obviously not talking about myself here) who are neutral and like both girls thinks a Noe ending will equal inconsistency based on the first 12 episodes.
ForgedGlory
2008-03-27, 00:41
*sigh, I guess I was the only one that Laughed at Noe jumping off the tree, oh well.
Anyway, I'm going have to lean towards a "bad" ending... things just isn't going to end up good with the way things are going between the three right now.
It still bothers me that Aiko called Nobuse... she should've stayed single to sort things out and whatever happens afterwards, happens. IMO, its still too soon for her to move on.
It still bothers me that Aiko called Nobuse... she should've stayed single to sort things out and whatever happens afterwards, happens. IMO, its still too soon for her to move on.
She is still single, they still in the friend Zone. It doesn't matter anymore because even though Aiko seems to still have lingering feelings, she is moving on as we saw she stopped staying for Shin practices in episode 11. Nobuse's chances seem to be getting better as he replaced Shin as the guy that Aiko ask for help, it seems Aiko is the type of girl that will fall in love for the guy that helps her with the store. :heh:
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