View Full Version : True Tears - Episode 13 [END] Discussion / Poll
Pellissier
2008-03-29, 09:29
Welcome to the discussion thread for True Tears, Episode 13 [END].
Thread Guidelines
Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
Spoilers about future events must not be posted in this thread.
If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=vb_board_usage#faq_vb_pm_explain).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Please try to keep the discussion on topic.
Spoiler Policy
Any spoiler that reveals future events, even under a spoiler tag, will be deleted.
Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
Adding a Spoiler tag:
spoiler.gif
Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found
on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
Make sure that you include a title for the spoiler!
Please use the Report button if you see any spoilers:
report.gif
Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar.
Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators
to locate and deal with problems quickly.
Posting prohibited spoilers may result in a ban.
Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.
Sinestra
2008-03-29, 11:11
Well ladies and gentlemen hold on to your butts the moment is almost upon us. Depending on what your expectations are we could be looking at one of the best endings this season o a complete and utter disappointment. I think it will be good end all the series i have been watching have ended the way i predicted and hope TT does not let me down. Either way its been one hell of ride. Golthin if you read this if we are right we will have to get together for a drink :)
I want Shin to get ran over, but I think that's asking for too much. Ok, back to waiting for the release.....
I'm just hoping for a well done ending no matter who wins, I just hope I'm right because I want to keep my prediction streak alive as well as not have to use a certain avatar for the next 3 months in a bet I made. :heh:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/tundotcom/1206808144638.jpg
TUN... YOU'RE BACK! Don't mess around with us again.....I hope what you're saying is true! If so I can't wait!
cloudninja
2008-03-29, 11:33
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/tundotcom/1206808144638.jpg
I knew the writers would'nt give up on something that they developed for the entire series. They told us what was going to happen with those first two picture book scenes and then continued to support and reinforce the central themes throughout the show. Well done.
Most people overlooked the initial picture book scenes on their first viewing and missed out on the structure and themes that the writers were laying out for us. If you kept those first two picture book sketches in mind as you watched the rest of the show, then everything fell into place. Otherwise, you end up confused by the little plot twists that the writers threw out.
Is'nt that picture above part of the same scene that the 1st preview pic from the ep 13 preview is from? If so, jaisrh was right on about that pic being from the scene where Shin 'once again faces his precious person directly'.
oompa loompa
2008-03-29, 11:40
i just hope that spoiler wont turn out to be one of those
well i dont love you but you know youre really important to me ' ones
well because,then some unfortunate guy will have to lose his life in a rather painful way. quite simple isnt it?
Samanosuke
2008-03-29, 11:41
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/tundotcom/1206808144638.jpg
Damn >_<
oh well , this was foreseen :(
Manji Midou
2008-03-29, 11:43
I feel sick to my stomach...blegh....so the final episode already aired then?.....poor Noe......::::goes off to look for a crappy Hiromi avatar:::
I feel sick to my stomach...blegh....so the final episode already aired then?.....poor Noe......::::goes off to look for a crappy Hiromi avatar:::
Finished 15 minutes ago, don't wear it straight away or all 5 people who know of our bet will be spoiled!
margafred
2008-03-29, 11:49
Just like what i predicted wanted it to be.
There i win my 100 bucks for guessing prediciting picking the right girl :)
another one
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/tundotcom/1206809552208.jpg
So no moe Noe ending? Oh :(.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS is all i can say right now.
aahhahaha
another one
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/tundotcom/1206809552208.jpg
Oh, beautiful true tears of joy :O
guiltygearxt
2008-03-29, 12:14
no Noe?
ewww.....
Manji Midou
2008-03-29, 12:15
Wha can I say the best girl lost...oh well no sour grapes on my part...the only upside to this ending for me is that I'm saved from being robbed by bandai out of my money for the dubbs...Had it been a Noe ending I would had obliged to pay 30 dollars for 1 or 2 episode was it?....and their dubbs are horrible as well...
BTW so what happens to Noe, can someone tell me...I don't mind being spoiled since i won't be watching the final ep...since it will sicken me even more
:::throws away kai avatar he had found for sinestra and westlo::::(
I wanted a Noe ending =(
Well, I wanted an Aiko ending, but we can't always get what we want. At least Aiko finally looked happy being around Nobuse even though they are still in the friend zone, but she looks now happy around him as before she was not. I do see a future for her and Nobuse now.
I feltered because of episode 12, but after closer examination for the images of episode 12 and the fact that none of the pictures had Noe on them, I upped my odd to 80/20 in favor of Hiromi. It paid off. This was a great season with no Canvas2 endings.
I am still sad that Aiko didn't get Shin, but she was able to move on and Nobuse has evolved into a decent guy. Aiko didn't have a chance with shin being in love with Hiromi. The person that got the short end of the baragain was Noe.
Well, I wanted an Aiko ending, but we can't always get what we want. At least Aiko finally looked happy being around Nobuse even though they are still in the friend zone, but she looks now happy around him as before she was not. I do see a future for her and Nobuse now.
I feltered because of episode 12, but after closer examination for the images of episode 12 and the fact that none of the pictures had Noe on them, I upped my odd to 80/20 in favor of Hiromi. It paid off. This was a great season with no Canvas2 endings.
I am still sad that Aiko didn't get Shin, but she was able to move on and Nobuse has evolved into a decent guy. Aiko didn't have a chance with shin being in love with Hiromi. The person that got the short end of the baragain was Noe.
LOL...Canvas ending....That would of been wrong, thank goodness!
Well, I wanted an Aiko ending, but we can't always get what we want. At least Aiko finally looked happy being around Nobuse even though they are still in the friend zone, but she looks now happy around him as before she was not. I do see a future for her and Nobuse now.
I feltered because of episode 12, but after closer examination for the images of episode 12 and the fact that none of the pictures had Noe on them, I upped my odd to 80/20 in favor of Hiromi. It paid off. This was a great season with no Canvas2 endings.
I am still sad that Aiko didn't get Shin, but she was able to move on and Nobuse has evolved into a decent guy. Aiko didn't have a chance with shin being in love with Hiromi. The person that got the short end of the baragain was Noe.
Aiko never had a chance in the first place - She would have needed to make her move years ago, not when he was involved with Noe/Hiromi. The Aiko+Nobuse thing is exactly what I didn't want to happen, now she has to settle for him, her second choice and it just shows she needs to be in a relationship, sorta sad. - And it's almost certain that they will end up with eachother eventually now
I never liked Hiromi, she was never as fun as Noe to watch nor did she have the same amount personality(She had like none), she was very closed in and there was absolutely no chemistry between Hiromi and Shin - Not to the extent that Shin and Noe had. I think Noe played a large role in episode 12, especially with Shin leaving Hiromi standing around and him going to see Noe instead.
As I said, Aiko needed to have made a move on Shin before she got into a relationship with Nobuse and before he got into a relationship with Noe/Hiromi - She acted too late and some part of me would have preferred her to win over Noe and Hiromi, but the choice only really ever was Noe and Hiromi and since that's the case, then I pick Noe.
:D shin my good boy, finally you do something good, HELL YEAAAAA, thats how you do it!
yeeesss is all i can say :D
all's well i guess :D
toxic_trance
2008-03-29, 12:43
ah.. another useless Harem boy having beautiful girls runnin crazy around him. I really liked the girls in the series.. felt their characters were explained pretty well... and thus more so Shinichiro feels like a guy who doesnt deserve any of them >.>
Aiko never had a chance in the first place - She would have needed to make her move years ago, not when he was involved with Noe/Hiromi. The Aiko+Nobuse thing is exactly what I didn't want to happen, now she has to settle for him, her second choice and it just shows she needs to be in a relationship, sorta sad. - And it's almost certain that they will end up with eachother eventually now
Well, I didn't want Aiko to settle, but starting as friend is a good compromise and I don't think it counts as settling. Settling would have been if she had not broken up with him in the first place
PhantomX
2008-03-29, 12:48
I'm glad Aiko didn't get STUCK with Shin... there's nothing really endearing bout him... Nobuse is 100x the man that Shinichirou is. If anything, this is great news for Noe, because now she can find someone worthy of her, and who won't date her just b/c of a bet...
Hiromi and Shin were always pretty lame/unlikable (from my point of view), and now they can go be lame together.
oompa loompa
2008-03-29, 12:55
after shuffle!.. this episode breathes new life into me :D though honestly i was expecting the opposite. lucky me lol
totalnet
2008-03-29, 12:58
Well, Noe did get her tear back in the end. I mean the series end with her truly mourning over the death of Raigomaru with tears. (pun not intended)
So....I really can't figure out if this was a sad ending or good. It was interesting and unique but also rather weird. Contradicting in some ways I guess.....between character actions and words. Go out with me...NO...go out with me...NO! HUH??????????? Ok, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, I got my ending, should be happy but kind of sad...WTF MAN? Great series none the less.
z3phyr.mp3
2008-03-29, 13:25
noe lost...
my first reaction was "orz" but then i thought about it and came to teh conclusion that he didn't deserve noe...
seeing shin crying while noe, looking unfazed, walks away after he confirms his love for hiromi was amusing to watch...
oh... and he cries while singing from the top of his lungs the aburamushi song, including the part about yuasa hiromi being in his heart... (orz... i had to lower the volume while he was singing, it's 0200 here)
and speaking of shuffle... the circumstances between hiromi-noe-shin reminded me between kaede-asa-that guy from shuffle... where kaede=hirom asa=noe and shin=that guy...
but hiromi won here though noe is my fave and i didn't like hiromi while in shuffle asa won while my fave is kaede while i didn't like asa...
oh well...
hiromi and shin deserve each other...
ps: was there a significance to that boy behind jun while he was exiting the bus?(though there probably isn't)
cebukitty
2008-03-29, 13:28
i'm still hoping for an oav T_T
I was wondering the same thing about that boy behind Jun. But I think it's just our imagination....
So....I really can't figure out if this was a sad ending or good. It was interesting and unique but also rather weird. Contradicting in some ways I guess.....between character actions and words. Go out with me...NO...go out with me...NO! HUH??????????? Ok, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, I got my ending, should be happy but kind of sad...WTF MAN? Great series none the less.
Well, it is a good ending because everyone got their tears back. Jun went through with separating himself from Noe. IT seems that Aiko finally see Nobuse the same way she saw Shin. Notice that her reaction is the same one she had when Shin was waiting for her at the store and he told her he was dating Noe and she confessed to Shin, that is probably symbolic of she finally developing the same feelings for Nobuse.
That goodbye scene between Shin and Noe was so freaking heartbreaking. I love how shin told her he loves Hiromi, but when he is with her his heart races. He really loved Noe, but it was a matter of who he loved the most.
Noe finally cries at the very end of the show, but we don't see her tears running down her cheek, but being blown by the wind.
Samanosuke
2008-03-29, 13:34
Wha can I say the best girl lost...oh well no sour grapes on my part...the only upside to this ending for me is that I'm saved from being robbed by bandai out of my money for the dubbs...Had it been a Noe ending I would had obliged to pay 30 dollars for 1 or 2 episode was it?....and their dubbs are horrible as well...
haha yeah , same ( not that i would have wanted a dub , nor would they have dubbed it .) .
noe lost...
my first reaction was "orz" but then i thought about it and came to teh conclusion that he didn't deserve noe...
seeing shin crying while noe, looking unfazed, walks away after he confirms his love for hiromi was amusing to watch...
oh well...
[...]
hiromi and shin deserve each other...
ps: was there a significance to that boy behind jun while he was exiting the bus?(though there probably isn't)
I had the same reaction , I was disappointed at first , but then I realize he didn't deserve Noe and that Noe deserved way better.
As for the kid behind Jun , i myself wonder what kind of significance he may have had =/ .
Oh well , it's over , And I think I've had it with romance stuff for a long time now >_>
cebukitty
2008-03-29, 13:35
I was wondering the same thing about that boy behind Jun. But I think it's just our imagination....
waaah, you mean he becomes both gay and pedo?!?!? oh the horror! :twitch:
Well, it is a good ending because everyone got their tears back. Jun went through with separating himself from Noe. IT seems that Aiko finally see Nobuse the same way she saw Shin. Notice that her reaction is the same one she had when Shin was waiting for her at the store and he told her he was dating Noe and she confessed to Shin, that is probably symbolic of she finally developing the same feelings for Nobuse.
That goodbye scene between Shin and Noe was so freaking heartbreaking. I love how shin told her he loves Hiromi, but when he is with her his heart races. He really loved Noe, but it was a matter of who he loved the most.
Noe finally cries at the very end of the show, but we don't see her tears running down her cheek, but being blown by the wind.
perhaps not, she might have just had a runny nose
waaah, you mean he becomes both gay and pedo?!?!? oh the horror! :twitch:
LOL...scary... I guess it was a good ending because SHIN FINALLY GOT HIS MIND SET. Took him long enough to mature.
Tatiana Razajev
2008-03-29, 13:46
Ah so Shin x Hiromi is 100% confirmed and can no longer be denied at all. Which is actually a good thing. Given how often they reminded us that Shin was dedicated to Hiromi, for him to choose anyone else including Noe would have been a contradiction and made the whole dedication thing seem pointless and fake.
As for Noe it's nice to see her finally cry in a sense and in general for her to move forward. Who knows maybe she'll find a guy that can be honestly dedicated to her instead of half-hearted. One without a prior obligation. Besides Shin has too many roaches. Sorry I just had to say that for the heck of it.
z3phyr.mp3
2008-03-29, 13:48
perhaps not, she might have just had a runny nose
yeah...
she might have been just allergic to the pollens of the sakuras...
it was spring after all..
^^
Rasuberi
2008-03-29, 13:48
That was sure a weird experience for me.
I both love and hate the ending. I dislike Hiromi and her set-up with Shin, and love Noe to bits... However the ending was very fitting. Yet while I feel the whole series and ending was masterfully created... I still couldn't help but feel a bit pissed off at Noe not winning.
I got a little teary-eyed at the scene where Noe was looking at the unfolded pictures from the picture book, and thought that was all the emotional turmoil I'd go through. Till the end I was fine... then after the minute or so of watching Noe at the end, and a few more minutes staring at my computer... I broke down in tears. I just Noe to be happy. :(
That was sure a weird experience for me.
I both love and hate the ending. I dislike Hiromi and her set-up with Shin, and love Noe to bits... However the ending was very fitting. Yet while I feel the whole series and ending was masterfully created... I still couldn't help but feel a bit pissed off at Noe not winning.
I got a little teary-eyed at the scene where Noe was looking at the unfolded pictures from the picture book, and thought that was all the emotional turmoil I'd go through. Till the end I was fine... then after the minute or so of watching Noe at the end, and a few more minutes staring at my computer... I broke down in tears. I just Noe to be happy. :(
LOL...someone who had the feelings I had after this episode. Strange huh?
I feel cheated. Here I am waiting weeks and weeks for episodes in hopes to see a real relationship develope between Noe and Shin and this is what I get.
Well not the first time that an anime I was really in to kick my teeth down my throat and give me an ending that I didn't want. Oh well life goes on.
NOW GO MAKE ALTERNATE ENDINGS!!!!
metronome
2008-03-29, 13:56
ah....why doesn't shin ends up with noone?
noe and hiromi shud just leave him in the end, he is annoying:D.
well, but again, it is hard to find an anime with this ending.~~
Deathkillz
2008-03-29, 14:04
Ah so Shin x Hiromi is 100% confirmed and can no longer be denied at all. Which is actually a good thing. Given how often they reminded us that Shin was dedicated to Hiromi, for him to choose anyone else including Noe would have been a contradiction and made the whole dedication thing seem pointless and fake.
At least I wasn't the only one who thought that.
Thank god that they didn't make a nonsense switch at the last minute. But that doesn't mean that it has saved the series for me unfortunatly. What I hated about the ending was the fact that in the end, Shin still looked like a complete retard. I honestly feel sorry for Hiromi and Noe who fought over such a guy. He really has shown little growth on me. Still with the indecisions and still being up in the air. I guess the scene where he "wanted to" but was unsure of whether to visit Hiromi or not the most annoying. He seemed more pissed off than happy that Hiromi wanted to share a cup with him. But granted that she was acting OOC for him though that was ALL his fault.
As for the situation with Noe, he really proves that his brain can't handle more than one action at a time. He is confused about his feelings like he suggested towards Noe, but even then I did feel that he was about to make a switch any moment, brings back memories of another series but that was well done unlike this.
Watching him breakdown in the end was more of an ear sore than feeling sad. "Dam he is such a wuss" is the thought which was running through my mind.
Well at least he went back to Hiromi but I expected an apology. If I was Hiromi, I would have made him suffer some guilt first before forgiving him. He deserves such a treatment for causing so much unecessary pain :rolleyes:
edit: winz for nobu and Ai though. Best pair :D
cebukitty
2008-03-29, 14:07
LOL...someone who had the feelings I had after this episode. Strange huh?
I reacted the same way T_T ....at first I was kinda shellshocked...and then I felt extremely saddened when I saw Noe's smiling face at the credits part... them my eyes brimmed with tears T_T
when i replayed the Noe/Shin parting scene tho, I don't quite get it why Shin had to repeat over and over that he liked hiromi and even sung out loud (off key too) that hiromi was in his heart. Who was he trying to convince... Noe or himself? And during that Shin/Hiromi scene... why did he seem so solemn... almost sad when he embraced Hiromi?
Though I'm a definite 100% Noe fan, I guess I knew beforehand that Shin wasn't going to choose Noe... that's why I made a "Broken Vow" MV days before ep 13 aired.
I still want an OAV with a NOE ending tho! T_T
z3phyr.mp3
2008-03-29, 14:19
it seems people around here wants an alternate ending ova like kgne...
but for me i'd rather have an after story ova showing the days of isurugi noe...
how she spends time with her new friends...
where she finally finds someone better than shin and her reminiscing about how a fool she was...
and hopefully not her visiting her brother in prison because of alleged shota rape...(though that would be fine too)
ps: yeah and now that it was mentioned... it really seemed that shin was trying to convince himself that he loved hiromi more when he sang that aburamushi song...(though i really wouldn't consider that singing)
ps: yeah and now that it was mentioned... it really seemed that shin was trying to convince himself that he loved hiromi more when he sang that aburamushi song...(though i really wouldn't consider that singing)
He loved both of them, he was singing the song so he wouldn't waver in his determination. He couldn't have both of them, he had to choose one. Even though he started going with Noe for the deal, he developed real feelings for her.
I reacted the same way T_T ....at first I was kinda shellshocked...and then I felt extremely saddened when I saw Noe's smiling face at the credits part... them my eyes brimmed with tears T_T
when i replayed the Noe/Shin parting scene tho, I don't quite get it why Shin had to repeat over and over that he liked hiromi and even sung out loud (off key too) that hiromi was in his heart. Who was he trying to convince... Noe or himself? And during that Shin/Hiromi scene... why did he seem so solemn... almost sad when he embraced Hiromi?
Though I'm a definite 100% Noe fan, I guess I knew beforehand that Shin wasn't going to choose Noe... that's why I made a "Broken Vow" MV days before ep 13 aired.
I still want an OAV with a NOE ending tho! T_T
Well I think the ending was as hard on Shin as either of the girls in some sense. Sure I was harsh on him in episode 12, and I think it's more valid because of what the ending was (and I guess giving hints to Hiromi at ep 12 would have harmed the "drama" effect), but breaking up with either of them to pursue the other would have been insanely difficult. There was a part of him that was attracted to each of the two, and he had to break that off to be with the remaining one.
That's why I don't think people should be as harsh with him for having to pick between them like all of the "omg Nobuse is a better character than Shin" comments, but he does probably deserve some well leveled criticisim for not being able to deal with it properly earlier. I guess that it was difficult for him to do so since he was acknowledging that his feelings seemed to go in different ways for a while with the picture book as well as what was happening in the episodes, and that the final decision would pain him as much as them in some sense.
He could have at least kissed her and moved on. That I wouldn't mind. I mean c'mon! The other two girls managed to lay their lips on him and Noe didn't. Though she doesn't look like the kind of person who you'd see lock lips with someone.
Whatever. Alternate ending or Season 2!!!
PhantomX
2008-03-29, 14:35
You don't kiss a girl when you're gonna dump her/deny her... that's just wrong.
He could have at least kissed her and moved on. That I wouldn't mind. I mean c'mon! The other two girls managed to lay their lips on him and Noe didn't. Though she doesn't look like the kind of person who you'd see lock lips with someone.
Whatever. Alternate ending or Season 2!!!
I think the way you phrased it speaks to the inconsistency of what you were looking for...; if he had kissed her that would have been the equivalent of choosing her, not letting her go. Ai and Hiromi kiss him because that's how they let him know their feelings for him. He already knows how Noe feels at this point so for Noe to do that is redundant, and he already had determined his feelings for her and they weren't in that kind of way...
War_Lord
2008-03-29, 14:38
I honestly thought Noe would win this one since there was more growth and development in their relationship compared to Hiromi. I'm not really disappointed since I feel that Noe needs to experience both love and heartbreak in order to build her own character. Great series, and I can't wait to see episode 13 for myself.
Rasuberi
2008-03-29, 14:39
There should be an OVA following what happens to Noe afterwards. Serious or silly, I don't care.
well as expected, this is why romance anime always have hater and lover :D
the shinxhiromi side is cheering in joy while the noexshin side is weeping and raging ;D
me? actually i'm more into shinxNone, i had been shinxhiromi fan until episode 12, hiromi didn't deserve this kid (see his gaze into noe in the dance? leaving hiromi without saying anything? in real life you would say "sorry i have some matter to solve first.. please wait for me, but no, the writer want to make us curious... but that is just.. well i dunno, lame?, and from that point, i just wanted to throw bricks at shin) he did redeem himself in this episode aaaaa bitttt but still, what the hell :(
and for noe fans, be glad it isn't shin that got noe
for hiromi fans.. well i myself a bit sad and a lil happy with this, sad because hiromi end up with him, but happy because i see hiromi happy, its a mixed bag of feelings, call me weird but thats my opinion after seeing this so yea 10 for seeing hiromi happy
vote nobuse x aiko for the best couple in the whole series pls :D
serenade_beta
2008-03-29, 14:42
Hiromi wins~~! :D Satisified.
Got to see her in glasses one more time too.
Shinichirou finally makes a decision... Thankfully. On the other hand, I turned down the volume when he started singing that song... *shiver*
No idea what the boy behind Jun means, but Jun leaves Noe to do his own stuff. He ends up alone (or with that boy), so I'm happy. Not exactly my favorite character, after all.
Aiko x Miyokichi; an obvious end for these two. What else to say. At least we don't have to worry about Miyokichi going from one girl to another.
And Noe... Glad she lost. Jumping off a tree was just mental (not to mention sleeping in a chicken coop in a snowy night)... Then she tells Shinichirou to do whatever he wants, and then goes and picks up the drawings. Isn't that just brilliant. Hahaha.
At least for Noe fans, she moves on and actually gets friends (and finally cries). Her hair got a bit longer too.
Happy with how she ends up, in the good and bad ways.
In the epilogue, Shinichirou and Hiromi don't really look different or act different, so they seem perfectly fine. Good for you, Hiromi.
And Shinichirou, please stay loyal this time, and don't sing that song out loud again.
Random thoughts:
Tomoyo: I can see it~, Hiromi-san.
Me: *strains neck* Can't-see-it--...
Haha, she wasn't in pain, but just stretching... and in pain, but not a bad way. :heh:
Through the whole ED-OP, I had to stare at Noe's back...
Easy to see where the 1s came from... :heh:
I guess it's in writers' plan not to just making all the characters cried their true tears as they came true to their own feelings; they definitely tried to make all the audiences cried as well... So many ppl around here said they wanna cry... :D
Though I definitely expect the pairing all along, and I know that Noe and Shin definitely had to cry at some point, I still find the ending a bit unsatisfying. As someone commented earlier, Shin himself didn't seem to improve so much as the main guy (really, Nobuse is way cooler than him). The only thing he did this episode was to be true to himself. Other than that, he didn't do much to help Noe at all.
And even though it was Shin who told Noe that he believes she can fly, I don't think it was his statement that help Noe broke free from her sadness. It's still Noe who found the courage to face all the pain by herself. Whether it's about living all alone, understand about Jun's feelings, as well as accepting the fact that Shin loves Hiromi.
Before she got to know Shin, she was strong because of the fact that she can repress her sadness. And because she was so fixated with flying and tears taken away, she was alienated by others. Now that she graduated from Shin, now she's a strong girl who can stay with the painful memory and be true to herself. She became cheerful and stop thinking in symbolism and became sociable with others. All in all, she's transformed from a weird cheerful girl to a mentally-healthy cheerful girl. So I guess it's still a good thing for Noe.
The other gripe I have with this episode is that I would like to see Shin and Hiromi more together at the end. Like... holding hands, or kissing, yet they ended it with Hiromi playing a basketball. I know it's suppose to signify something (as Shin narrated something that I need the subs to understand), but still... It would be nice to see them together. Like seeing Shin cheering for her in that match or something. The ending seems to show each of the main characters separately, which seems to be fine with other chars, but really is unfitting for a couple like Shin-Hiromi...
Sorry, I laughed at the singing. And rest of the episode was pretty much bgm while I did other stuff.
After all the emotional potential building, nothing really happened. Or rather, the landing was way too muffled.
I can understand what they were trying to do, but as a whole product after its tv airing, this is more of a chick anime.
Aiko x Miyokichi; an obvious end for these two. What else to say. At least we don't have to worry about Miyokichi going from one girl to another.
it is pretty obvious that Aiko finally see nobuse as more than a friend, her reaction to him being in the front of the store waiting for her is the same reaction she had with Shin!
deffusse
2008-03-29, 14:56
realy controversial episode for me, not good and not bad, but lacking something more, something more I've expected:confused:
btw my congratulations to hiromi and her fans, even I'm Noe fanboy
the score for competed anime >> 8+/10, or 9-/10
PhantomX
2008-03-29, 14:57
Sorry, I laughed at the singing. And rest of the episode was pretty much bgm while I did other stuff.
After all the emotional potential building, nothing really happened. Or rather, the landing was way too muffled.
I can understand what they were trying to do, but as a whole product after its tv airing, this is more of a chick anime.
I'm with you... I found most of these main characters to be a little too irrational or quirky for my tastes, and sort of started tiring of the wishy-washiness and talk about flying and chickens around episode 9... if it had been longer than 13 episodes I probably wouldn't have finished it. It had nice animation and music, so was good to kill time, but nothing particularly memorable. Doesn't help that I had quite a large distaste for two of the main protagonists, and was disliking the third more and more (the jumping off the tree solidified this).
Rasuberi
2008-03-29, 14:57
I guess it's in writers' plan not to just making all the characters cried their true tears as they came true to their own feelings; they definitely tried to make all the audiences cried as well... So many ppl around here said they wanna cry... :D
It made me cry, cry true tears that is! For Noe of course. :heh: I've never cried for anything that wasn't a death or dramatic happy ending...
I don't dislike Shin, but I don't think either of the girls deserve him. I say this while disliking Hiromi. She's the exact type of female I dislike... and I say this as a girl myself. At least she's kinda pretty on the outside... :eyebrow:
But Shin and her relationship really never developed. I can see Hiromi's side being serious, but to me it always felt like Shin just had a silly crush on her.
realy controversial episode for me, not good and not bad, but lacking something more, something more I've expected:confused:
btw my congratulations to hiromi and her fans, even I'm Noe fanboy
the score for competed anime >> 8+/10, or 9-/10
something i have to say about the japanese fans in 2ch, Psyched! The makers of this show really got you. I have to give it to the director of this show and his selection of preview clips.
cloudninja
2008-03-29, 15:00
The other gripe I have with this episode is that I would like to see Shin and Hiromi more together at the end. Like... holding hands, or kissing, yet they ended it with Hiromi playing a basketball. I know it's suppose to signify something (as Shin narrated something that I need the subs to understand), but still... It would be nice to see them together. Like seeing Shin cheering for her in that match or something. The ending seems to show each of the main characters separately, which seems to be fine with other chars, but really is unfitting for a couple like Shin-Hiromi...
Same complaint from me. Even though they finally officially became a couple, they did'nt show anything afterwards of the two of them together as a couple. At least show them walking to school or having lunch together, Shin watching and cheering as she plays basketball, or a brief scene of a date. Something please. Even when he was in class drawing another picture, I expected them to show him looking at Hiromi and maybe have her look back, but it was just focused on the picture. It felt somewhat unsatisfying, it was too subdued an ending. I guess they just left it up to our imagination.
Wow... the pairing I was supporting actually won. :heh: That doesn't happen often in the romance-anime I watch. :heh:
Narf.
Wow... the pairing I was supporting actually won. :heh: That doesn't happen often in the romance-anime I watch. :heh:
Narf.
If It wasn't because Aiko didn't win, ill be 100%.
ZODDGUTS
2008-03-29, 15:28
Good ending and the only way it should have ended. I couldn't tell what Shin's mom told Hiromi when she went to see her anyone know?
Good ending for me. Makes me forget the pain of the KimiKiss ending. :)
I watched the RAW a few hours ago, I'm quite satisfied with the ending though like cloudninja and b0nyb0y I would've liked to have seen a scene of them as a couple in school. I know they are officially a couple but it would've been a nice touch, maybe they can insert something in the DVD release. I'll do a more in detail post once I see a subtitled version.
I'm glad I kept my prediction streak alive and I'm happy that track 30 played during the hookup scene. I always thought it would be used for a Hiromi & Shin hook up since the ost was ripped on the 27th of feb and I'm glad to see I was right.
On another note lol @ 2ch for getting sucked in and also golthin can you please translate the dialogue between Shin's mother and Hiromi? You never let me down in the Kimikiss thread, you can do it here!
Also @ tun I lol'd at your ending scene version, and oh props for the script, reading now!
Honestly I just rewatched the final episode, and I think it does do the series justice overall.
While it surely isn't perfect as nothing ever is, True Tears is probably the top romance anime that I've watched in a while. I feel like both Hiromi and Noe got solid resolution through the ending and can move on having accepted the events in a way that makes both of them better for having gone through it.
I did find it interesting that they sort of didn't really go with displaying the Jibeta ending in the way that I figured they would have from the previous episodes, although I might have missed it...
Mom said waiting is tough.
And Hiromi thanked her.
That was pretty much it I think.
I couldn't tell what Shin's mom told Hiromi when she went to see her anyone know?
She says it takes stamina/strength to wait. Hence bringing something to eat.
Shin's mother's turnaround has been a bit of a confusion for me the entire series. I've developed a secret theory that she sees herself in Hiromi, because Shin's dad was in a similar situation when they were younger, with Shin's mom as Hiromi, and Hiromi's mom as Noe, only Shin's mom never broke free of her resentment.
Yes I'm guessing she went through something similar with her husband and Hiromi's mother, they don't outright state it but it seems to be one of those things you have to read in between the lines.
Oh yeah Hiromi in workout gear = sexy.
She says it takes stamina/strength to wait. Hence bringing something to eat.
Shin's mother's turnaround has been a bit of a confusion for me the entire series. I've developed a secret theory that she sees herself in Hiromi, because Shin's dad was in a similar situation when they were younger, with Shin's mom as Hiromi, and Hiromi's mom as Noe, only Shin's mom never broke free of her resentment.
Actually I was thinking something along these lines as well.
Shin's mom said that Hiromi looked like her mother (in the sense of being that kind of beauty I guess?).
I figured it meant that Shin's mom was like the 3rd wheel but ended up "winning" in some sense, but never got over that Shin's dad might have been interested in Hiromi's mom or something when they were younger. It might have all been before they got married even or even met, but I guess she just wasn't able to get over it until she saw Hiromi in the crash incident.
Around there it seems as if she sort of understood what Hiromi was going through maybe because of what she went through...?
Either way, I suppose my take was similar to yours, it'd be nice to have gotten some kind of background on that...
margafred
2008-03-29, 16:04
noe lost...
my first reaction was "orz" but then i thought about it and came to teh conclusion that he didn't deserve noe...
seeing shin crying while noe, looking unfazed, walks away after he confirms his love for hiromi was amusing to watch...
oh... and he cries while singing from the top of his lungs the aburamushi song, including the part about yuasa hiromi being in his heart... (orz... i had to lower the volume while he was singing, it's 0200 here)
and speaking of shuffle... the circumstances between hiromi-noe-shin reminded me between kaede-asa-that guy from shuffle... where kaede=hirom asa=noe and shin=that guy...
but hiromi won here though noe is my fave and i didn't like hiromi while in shuffle asa won while my fave is kaede while i didn't like asa...
oh well...
hiromi and shin deserve each other...
ps: was there a significance to that boy behind jun while he was exiting the bus?(though there probably isn't)
Well i guess i can see why some ppl were hoping for the "unexpected" instead of the "expected"..not that i'm against any of it,just that if i were to make a choice,i would rather go for something "expected" and "predicted".Shuffle is one of those series that makes me goes "wtf" because the series ended with Rin going for the "unexpected" girl.It really makes me sad because i was cheering for Kaede at that time,since Kaede got all the reasons she need to win Rin's love,which somewhat makes me believe that she was "obviously" the winner for that series..too bad i was wrong about that :(
But in True Tears,its different.The story had already been decided not by the girl's act...but by Shinichiro's choice since episode 1.He had his eyes on Hiromi since the beginning of the episode...and not only that,he somewhat realize that something is not okay with Hiromi,and give a deep thought about it.Whatever things that Hiromi did,it certainly bothered Shin alot.
Compared to Noe,which only talks about Jibeta and Raigomaru in front of Shin,Hiromi was more straightforward about her feelings for Shin,which made Shin feel guilty and sad,thinking that he wasn't able to help her in whatever way.From episode 1 until the end,its Hiromi that manage to get Shin's attention,and she did that more than Noe.Aiko?I never actually putting my hope on her,since she was more like a "stranger" in the series,rather than being an important character like Noe and Hiromi.Beside the way Shinichiro thinks and treat her gave us enough hint to conclude that her job as a "love rival" in True Tears already end.Its a pity fact but at least,she got some courage there to trap Shin inside the shop and steal his first kiss.
Anyway its a great twist and confrontation there between Noe - Shinichiro - Hiromi...Noe is indeed cute and moe,and she did attract my attention during the beginning of the story.However the sudden 180 degree change in Hiromi surely made me lock my eyes on her till the end of the episode.Hiromi's characteristic fits my "girlfriend of my dream" description well...how i wish if there's a girl like her in this world :(
it seems people around here wants an alternate ending ova like kgne...
but for me i'd rather have an after story ova showing the days of isurugi noe...
how she spends time with her new friends...
where she finally finds someone better than shin and her reminiscing about how a fool she was...
and hopefully not her visiting her brother in prison because of alleged shota rape...(though that would be fine too)
Well i don't think there will be an OVA or 2nd season for True Tears,seeing that everything had been wrapped perfectly at the end of episode.Unless if they plan to make the story different than the original story (just like School Days OVA),but that will surely ruin the whole concept of True Tears story.
But an OVA based on your idea is not bad anyway...i can imagine it as a cheerful episode,free from any cry and tears :heh:
Good job to the animators for bringing the whole storyline to the top...it was certainly worth it to watch the series from the beginning till the end. ;)
Finally, I can move on with my life lol
What I liked about this is that, this ending is exactly what I expected from the get go--which is Noe crying true tears from heartbreak of Shin choosing Hiromi. I thought I would've hated it since it's gonna be anticlimactic, but wow, they actually made it LOOK good. It was probably because of the way they showed Noe's tears in the credits. It's the best part of the show for me. It was a good move too because it had an optimistic feel to it. They actually managed to emphasize the beauty of Noe's independence in the end. It wasn't my perfect ending, but I think she's really better off without Shin. ^___^ I got the Noe appreciation I wanted from this show so all is good. <3
As for those who stayed true to the Hiromi warship, I admit my intuition failed me. It was probably my own bias that clouded my judgment haha Congratulations! :)
bullrogg
2008-03-29, 16:19
yes....the ending i wanted.
...time for some flaming at another forum.....
She says it takes stamina/strength to wait. Hence bringing something to eat.
Shin's mother's turnaround has been a bit of a confusion for me the entire series. I've developed a secret theory that she sees herself in Hiromi, because Shin's dad was in a similar situation when they were younger, with Shin's mom as Hiromi, and Hiromi's mom as Noe, only Shin's mom never broke free of her resentment.
Yeah, I can believe that theory!
@ ani_d
I don't know about that; sure you always ended up defending Noe and I (along with others) always for some reason tended to lean towards Hiromi; I think the end showed that he had strong feelings for both in some sense. I think the shippers on both sides can be satisfied with that at least, since in some sense I think people on both sides early on were trying to simplify it into a box of him only really liking one of them.
For me the ending showed that he really did lose something by having to give up Noe since he did love her in some kind of sense, even though his romantic feelings were for Hiromi. To be fair I kind of think I missed parts of that in my arguments in the past few episodes and you took up that point strongly with the picturebook theme.
This episode makes me appreciate a lot more, Shin's actions in 10-12, since I think I was perhaps blinded somewhat to his feelings for Noe when I argued that he should have been doing things properly at least somewhat. He legitimately had feelings for her, and although the resolution was hard on both; I think it really did do the series justice as I said above.
germanturkey
2008-03-29, 16:32
westlo, dare i declare victory for the good guys? i'm downloading the raw as well as woofs translation for the "one scene that matters.."
Haha gt I can't believe you're in this thread, so much for staying away from these sites on the weekend. I was going to do that initially but my internet is about to be throttled to dial up speeds any hour soon... I'll hit you up with something to make your raw viewing better, you can thank tun for it.
germanturkey
2008-03-29, 16:37
haven't look at spoilers on pg 1 or 2 yet, and haven't sited the aria or gundam ep discussion yet. so i partially held to my promise..
What's a good place to see a hiromi vs noe warfare?
What's a good place to see a hiromi vs noe warfare?
Omni's blog, I suppose, but there are plenty of other anime forums which usually have much bigger shipping drama than here (Thank god...).
Yeah, I can believe that theory!
Seems very plausible from the scene from the 8 minutes mark as well as the obvious one later when she visits her flat.
What's a good place to see a hiromi vs noe warfare?
4chan is always good
Also @ tun I lol'd at your ending scene version, and oh props for the script, reading now!
Thanks ;)
LeviathanDarkly
2008-03-29, 16:56
4chan is always good
NOT
Wanted Noe ending ;_;
Now this show is just meh
Hope there will be an OVA, I want to see happy ending for Noe :')
Wow; I want to add something I just noticed that might explain a big part of Shin's mom, Shin's dad, and Hiromi's mom's drama:
That exchange was huge, where Shin goes to ask his dad "when do you cry" and his dad answers "when your heart wavers, i guess" (taken from the "subs") and seems to be thinking about what he said as Shin leaves...
That might also explain a lot of what happened between Shin's mom and Hiromi's mom; heck since Shin has been going through a lot of the same experiences that his father went through that might be the best confirmation we get of another parallel there... as well as of course Shin's mom seeing a lot of herself in Hiromi (even as she tries to deny it because Hiromi is of course her mom's daughter...)
Even Shin's mom talking to Hiromi matches everything their experiences in parallel with the "waiting is hard..." line...
I expanded on this in my later post.
cloudninja
2008-03-29, 17:25
I'm happy that track 30 played during the hookup scene. I always thought it would be used for a Hiromi & Shin hook up since the ost was ripped on the 27th of feb and I'm glad to see I was right.
I watched that scene several times and they played track 32 (omoi wo oitekite - leave behind those feelings) instead of track 30. Track 32 started when Noe was walking away from Shin and he 'sang' out the part about Yuasa Hiromi. They continued playing track 32 through the end of the next scene with Shin and Hiromi.
I guess they chose track 32 to show Shin and Noe leaving their feelings for each other behind. As for Hiromi, she could finally leave behind her feelings of sadness that she's had for a long time now that she is finally together with Shin. I think it was appropriate that it started snowing at the end of that scene since Hiromi can now associate snow with her new joyful feeling instead of her previous bad association with snow. It was snowing back when Shin's mother told her that lie which was painful to her because it made her think they could'nt be together.
I was hoping to hear track 30 as well but I guess the director felt track 32 was more appropriate. Track 30 has the more uplifting 'triumphant' feel to it in the 2nd half but track 32 is a bit more subdued which matched the actual scene they showed. I thought Hiromi was cute when she made him work a little by saying no twice to his requests for her to go out with him. She should have made him work more though for the way he neglected her the previous two episodes.
So Shin has feelings for -both- Noe and Hiromi but, as he couldn't have both, chose to stay with Hiromi instead, all the while singing to himself about Hiromi so his feelings wouldn't waver?
How utterly bittersweet.
ZODDGUTS
2008-03-29, 17:41
She says it takes stamina/strength to wait. Hence bringing something to eat.
Shin's mother's turnaround has been a bit of a confusion for me the entire series. I've developed a secret theory that she sees herself in Hiromi, because Shin's dad was in a similar situation when they were younger, with Shin's mom as Hiromi, and Hiromi's mom as Noe, only Shin's mom never broke free of her resentment.
Ah thanks. Had a bit of a feeling she may have said that which also leads me to believe like you said went through the same thing that Hiromi is going through waiting for the person you love to choose between her or someone else.
Anyways Shin will know he choose wisely once he sees Hiromi do this:
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/3001e9d557.png (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Shin she's doing it for you, be thankful you lucky bastard! :D
cloudninja
2008-03-29, 17:46
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/3001e9d557.png (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Shin she's doing it for you, be thankful you lucky bastard! :D
I was thinking the same thing earlier but thought better about posting that thought, did'nt want to give the impression I was having dirty thoughts :)
She did mention to him that she had done the splits when Shin caught up to her.
I was thinking the same thing earlier but thought better about posting that thought, did'nt want to give the impression I was having dirty thoughts :)
She did mention to him that she had done the splits when Shin caught up to her.
You know that the only purpose of that scene was to be able to capture Hiromi's pained face to fool all the Noe and Hiromi fans.
totalnet
2008-03-29, 18:19
God, that was the fastest subbing job I have ever seen.
atividia
2008-03-29, 18:26
score :D
hiromi ending saves the day. I hate endings where the guy ends up liking the girl because the girl already likes him; it feels fake.
God, that was the fastest subbing job I have ever seen.
To be honest I could have released it around 4PM EST but I wanted to go through it before I let it loose.
So the biggest revelation of the series is perhaps that True Tears (current story of Shin/Hiromi/Noe) mirrors the (past story of Shin's dad/Shin's mom/Hiromi's mom), from what is being said.
Hiromi played the role of Shin's mom, which explains why Shin's mom didn't understand her at first since she thought Hiromi was playing the role of Hiromi's mom, and that explains her past bitterness since Hiromi's mom originally caused Shin's dad's heart to waver. Around episodes 8-9 Shin's mom begins to understand that (Hiromi is probably doing all the same things she did 30 years ago; i.e. trying to date a random guy to not stir the boat) and does a "180" since she now understands that Hiromi is actually filling in her role. It also explains her line in ep 13; that the "waiting is hard" for Shin/Shin's dad to go and talk to Noe/Hiromi's mom. Thus, the behavior of Shin's mom towards Hiromi is consistent under this interpretation of the past.
Noe plays the role of Hiromi's mom which is that she's the one who Shin/Shin's dad wavers towards..., and probably the reason why Hiromi's resentment to Noe mirrors Shin's mom's resentment towards Hiromi's mom.
Shin plays the role of his dad, which is obvious to some extent, and the fact of course that he asks his dad when a man cries true tears, which is when of course, "his heart wavers", so we know his dad went through this same kind of drama with Shin's mom=Hiromi, Hiromi's mom=Noe.
I think this kind of interpretation completely serves as the answer to the general criticism leveled over the treatment of Shin's mom and her relationship with Hiromi. We can pretty much completely conjecture based on the hints dropped after that, that the parallel to the past should clear up all of Shin's mom's original feelings in eps 1-9 that she thought Hiromi was like her mother, but in 10-13 she understands that Hiromi is actually like her.
Either way, I have to give solid props to the series for managing to deal with everything that was raised over the previous 12 episodes in the final episode, since most of my questions have been answered with solidly dropped hints (although I still think Shin should have said something to Hiromi before running off to Noe at the end of 12...).
ZODDGUTS
2008-03-29, 19:25
I was thinking the same thing earlier but thought better about posting that thought, did'nt want to give the impression I was having dirty thoughts :)
She did mention to him that she had done the splits when Shin caught up to her.
It's going to be used the way it's intented to be used... that's why she mentioned it to Shin heh. :p I'm surprise Shin didn't tell her that he wants to see it in action it's not like there's anyone their to stop them in Hiromi's apartment. I have a feeling that Hiromi is the type of girl that won't hold back look at that cup seen between her and Shin! She tends to release her tension and stress with basketball but now that she has Shin she'll be doing other things to relieve of her stress... Like I said Shin is one lucky bastard. ;)
Anyways wow there's 7 votes with a score of 1 out 10 doesn't take much of a guess as to why they voted that way. Lots of bitter tears for them.
Darkside
2008-03-29, 20:07
yes! I haven't watched ep yet, but the suspense on who he would pick in the end was too suspenseful.
relentlessflame
2008-03-29, 20:17
Either way, I have to give solid props to the series for managing to deal with everything that was raised over the previous 12 episodes in the final episode, since most of my questions have been answered with solidly dropped hintsAgreed completely.
What I want to say after re-watching the episode again is that the dialog in the episode completely blows me away. It's like practically every single line is weighty and laced with deeper meaning and symbolism. Especially the exchanges with the parents, the conversation with Noe, and some of Shinichirou's monologue. It just sort of stopped me dead in my tracks, like "how can one short phrase say so much?" Just... wow. People who only care about how it ended truly missed everything good about this show, in my opinion.
"Dad, when do you cry?" "When your heart aches, right?"
"I love Hiromi... but whenever I look at you, my heart aches."
"Shinichirou, you believe I can fly, and that belief will be my wings."
"I've wanted to wipe away your tears. And now, it's something I can do."
"It's snowing..." "Huh?" "Nothing..."
This episode is like a poem born from the most bittersweet memories imaginable. How fitting. What a great way to wrap up this show.I'm sure I'll have more to say after I let it sink for a bit.
Anyways wow there's 7 votes with a score of 1 out 10 doesn't take much of a guess as to why they voted that way. Lots of bitter tears for them.
the sad thing is that people KNOW what the poll is intended for, Still they rate the episode in such way out of bitterness.
Shin didn't deserve anyone, but I guess atleast Hiromi is happy.
negativeone
2008-03-29, 20:49
I would've liked the series more if Noe was the winner i like her character better(hiromi was just meh i couldn't really feel anything for her character) and also it would've been less predictable. since the beginning of the show it was pretty obvious that Hiromi was going to be the winner, but as the story progressed i started having doubts, but w/e i guess everyone is happy in the end (except for me:upset:, noe FTW)
BTW i liked how shin's story was similar to his dad's it was pretty neat parallel
*goes and hides in the corner crying NOEEEE*
edit: Actually now that i think about it i would have preferred if Shin didn't end up with any of the two, and the 3 of them would just go in their own path
ZODDGUTS
2008-03-29, 21:02
Gotta say that after watching True Tears I'm really looking forward to more of P.A. Works, this was their first series that they've made and wow it was great well told story and very well animated. Hope we get to see something from them again sometime this year.
germanturkey
2008-03-29, 21:17
seriously. fastest subbing job ever.. haha. thanks for putting it out that fast.
anyways, VICTORY!!! i thought it was very well done the ending, since it mirrored the shin's parents story.
anyone catch that Hiromi basically let Shin choose? its a testament of her love for him that she let him go see Noe and told him, i'll be waiting. she was so excited when someone knocked on her door but you could clearly see the disappointment when she saw who it was. and then after Shin chases after her, you can tell she's still in a state of disbelief. he was gone so long that she came to her own conclusion (she ate dinner, which he promised to have with her.) so when he finally says i'll love you forever and be with you forever etc, she's like, you're kidding right? and when Shin embraces her, she knows its for real.
though i share the thoughts of many of you guys and would have liked to see a "couple" moment with the two of them at the end. instead of each doing their own thing. i thought when reflecta started playing, it would do a scene change, but it just showed her standing there. at the very least, at least she cried.
bah.. nother "Mai-Hime" type series. An awesome series turned into absolute rubbish by the last one/two episodes. WTF do japanese romance plot/script writers have with childhood friends always being the ones to hook-up when their relationship is clearly sub-par of the other choices shown. I hate watching an artist smear a great product with their own feces at the last minute thinking it'll make it better... sigh
SnEptUne
2008-03-29, 22:33
That was sure a weird experience for me.
I both love and hate the ending. I dislike Hiromi and her set-up with Shin, and love Noe to bits... However the ending was very fitting. Yet while I feel the whole series and ending was masterfully created... I still couldn't help but feel a bit pissed off at Noe not winning.
I got a little teary-eyed at the scene where Noe was looking at the unfolded pictures from the picture book, and thought that was all the emotional turmoil I'd go through. Till the end I was fine... then after the minute or so of watching Noe at the end, and a few more minutes staring at my computer... I broke down in tears. I just Noe to be happy. :(
That's nice. I didn't feel anything significant at all, probably because of how everyone said Hiromi will "win" at the end. I don't think this is a race, and it only makes sense of Shin to date with Hiromi if he have her in his heart. Frankly, even if she wasn't his number one, he should still date them both just for the experiences. Since he was done playing with Noe, he can now move on to Hiromi.
So ... Noe got a running nose at the end? Probably because of allergy.
relentlessflame
2008-03-29, 22:38
So ... Noe got a running nose at the end? Probably because of allergy.I'm not sure whether that's funnier if I assume you're being sarcastic, or if I assume you weren't. :heh:
SnEptUne
2008-03-29, 22:58
I'm not sure whether that's funnier if I assume you're being sarcastic, or if I assume you weren't. :heh:
Well, if she must get tears back from an important person to her, I just can't see how Shin can be the important person. But I was really disappointed, I was hoping for a Jun+Shin ending. They were made for each other.
Same complaint from me. Even though they finally officially became a couple, they did'nt show anything afterwards of the two of them together as a couple. At least show them walking to school or having lunch together, Shin watching and cheering as she plays basketball, or a brief scene of a date. Something please. Even when he was in class drawing another picture, I expected them to show him looking at Hiromi and maybe have her look back, but it was just focused on the picture. It felt somewhat unsatisfying, it was too subdued an ending. I guess they just left it up to our imagination.
Well, of course. Hiromi is just a side character, she doesn't even have a personality! Beside, after Shin got bored, he would probably dump her.
bah.. nother "Mai-Hime" type series. An awesome series turned into absolute rubbish by the last one/two episodes. WTF do japanese romance plot/script writers have with childhood friends always being the ones to hook-up when their relationship is clearly sub-par of the other choices shown. I hate watching an artist smear a great product with their own feces at the last minute thinking it'll make it better... sigh
Um; I don't know why I bother responding to these kinds of post but this take is completely nonsensical. If the last two episodes had gone "any other way" then there would have still been unresolved issues from the earlier episodes. Things like Shin's mom and her whole drama from 20-30 years ago all got tied into this ending by the implications of what Shin and his father said to each other as well as what Hiromi and Shin's mom said to each other because they played mirror parts in this "repeat of history". All of Shin's mom's actions can be explained after watching 13; that's a part of the point of all this.
Either way the last 2 episodes enable the previous 11 to be consistent; episodes 9-11 led to the resolution in 12-13 since Shin had chosen to love Hiromi "in the romantic sense" but he couldn't figure out how to break off his feelings for Noe, since he did have something tangible for Noe that he conveyed through the picturebook.
I can see why Noe fans are upset and all that, but still, the fact of the matter is that the writers chose the ending BEFORE the series (not at the last minute like you seem to claim). The only way to create the kind of drama they did end up creating, was to have the idea of mirroring Shin's dad's triangle in Shin's triangle, so everything early on is explained at the very end while seeming unclear as we watch them; i.e. Shin's mom's apparent dislike of Hiromi vs. her totally opposite feelings after episode 10. They did an absolutely superb job of keeping things unclear until episode 13 wrapped everything up nicely, that's the point of a strong ending...
Also, while some people wanted "more ShinxHiromi", it might have detracted from Noe's resolution. In some sense the scene of Noe walking away from Shin is supposed to be as powerful as the scene of Shin and Hiromi that follows; a kiss or more later might have tilted the resolution in Hiromi's favor in some sense. That's probably why they show Shin saying stuff as each of the girls is in their own element...
Very good final episode. True Tears finish equal it start, a great show. :)
relentlessflame
2008-03-29, 23:26
Also, while some people wanted "more ShinxHiromi", it might have detracted from Noe's resolution. In some sense the scene of Noe walking away from Shin is supposed to be as powerful as the scene of Shin and Hiromi that follows; a kiss or more later might have tilted the resolution in Hiromi's favor in some sense. That's probably why they show Shin saying stuff as each of the girls is in their own element...Yes, I totally agree. This name of the game is "bittersweet" in every sense of the word. This wasn't what some might call a "happy ending", because, well... it isn't really all that happy. That being said, I do think it was an incredibly satisfying ending to the story. The point of the episode was not "yay! Shinichirou and Hiromi finally became a couple!". After all, this is a show about tears. Rather, it was about how Shinichirou's and Noe's relationship had helped them grow up. Shinichirou was now able to understand himself, his dreams, and his feelings, and to chase after his goals without hesitation. Noe was finally able to better understand herself and others, and to grieve properly for all the sadness she's faced (the closing scene was so fitting in so many ways). It was an episode about breaking it off with someone you really care about a lot, so that you can be with the one you really love. "What makes you cry?" indeed. It's a pretty harsh life lesson -- no fairy tale. But that's what it means to grow up.
Guardian Enzo
2008-03-29, 23:43
Wow.
A truly beautiful end to a truly beautiful series. I need to collect myself a bit, sort out my reactions - maybe watch it again. But I had to chime in with that much. Bravo, bravo, bravo!
germanturkey
2008-03-30, 00:12
wasn't so much bittersweet from all angles. only from Noe's angle. she ended up crying again, which was her overall goal anyways. but from Hiromi and Shin's point of view, it was something that they'd long held off.
Guardian Enzo
2008-03-30, 00:14
Well, having read through the first few pages, I do feel a need to chime in in defense of our favorite good boy, among other things...
First off, I think it's a shame people are turning on this series like a pack of rabid dogs because their girl didn't win (and yes, I know it's much easier to say that when mine did). While I loved Hiromi and wanted this ending pretty badly, I would have been OK with a Noe ending if it was as well executed as this was (mind you, I think that would have been thematically impossible). Fact is, this series is subtle - the characters are subtle, the emotions they feel are subtle. Life - and certainly not adolescent romance - are not neat and tidy things. Sometimes you really do love more than one person, no mater what the sonnets say - and Shin clearly did. Rather than savage him for wavering, credit him for at least not wanting to hurt either girl. That's what drove him to indecision - the desire not to cause either girl pain. That it did cause pain to both is unfortunate, but unavoidable given that the subject is a 16 year-old boy who doesn't know how to deal with his own feelings yet, never mind anyone else's.
Yes, Shinichiro did love Noe too - he came to love her and though, I think, it was more in a protective than romantic way there was a definite attraction. She was his muse - she allowed him to fly creatively (art and dance) and to accept that he could follow his heart and not his father's footsteps. He loves her and he's grateful to her, but in the end there's only room for one at the center of his heart - and that is Hiromi. It's been that way since they were small children and really, Noe never had a chance. Shin's whole life was a series of obstacles blocking his path to happiness with Hiromi, and though Noe helped clear some of the obstacles, when they were finally cleared there was no way he was turning away from her. It's a sad irony that Noe helped Shin to free himself of his bonds and fly, only to have him fly away from her. And that knowledge was what caused him to waver as long as he did.
As for Noe, well, there's no doubt she did get the short stick here to a large extent. She did get her tears back - in a way I thought was utterly beautiful and well-constructed, Shin's love note appearing from the snow like an archaeological discovery next to Raigomaru's grave. It was a rare moment when a prosaic art form (anime) achieved poetry. But it was a sad poem for Noe, and that's too bad. Still - I respect the writers for not trying to tie everything into a too-neat ending - given the emotions involved, someone was going to be hurt. Like the fall from the tree, though, perhaps it was a pain that she had to experience to grow up. Hiromi and Noe had acted selfishly in their own right, as much as Shin if not more so at times. Noe's self-constructed fantasy world was hurting those around her and more importantly, herself. It was in finally allowing herself to attach to someone real that she allowed herself to be hurt again, and in the process find her tears. It would have been nice if the poor little nutter had experienced it in a less painful way, but at least she did survive it and hopefully grow from it.
I found myself more nervous awaiting this ending that any anime since BGI, and I certainly was agitated and nervous through most of the episode. Not so much about who "won" - though I had a rooting interest, there was no clear cut Yano/Take-good/evil split here - but because I wanted this very special series to end on a proper note. I wanted to see an emotionally honest and fulfilling conclusion that did justice to how intelligent and moving the first 12 eps were, and I think True Tears delivered it brilliantly. I'm sorry if the Noe fans are feeling hurt and disappointed - I'm sad for her, too - but I hope a little time and distance will soften the natural angry response and allow the brilliance of the final ep to shine through. Fantastic, IMO.
wasn't so much bittersweet from all angles. only from Noe's angle. she ended up crying again, which was her overall goal anyways. but from Hiromi and Shin's point of view, it was something that they'd long held off.
Yeah, I think that's in some sense because Shin did it "more properly" than his father did in the past.
Where Hiromi doesn't seem to have any reason to bear any ill feelings towards Noe, Shin's mom hated Hiromi's mom and thought Hiromi was playing that role originally in some sense.
I do personally think that for Hiromi there's some sense of satisfaction but I think it's also that she's struggled with knowing that Noe is important to Shin. In some ways it's just as Shin's mom undoubtably had to deal with the fact that Hiromi's mom was probably important to Shin's dad (and could possibly be the reason why he welcomes Hiromi so openly and Shin's mom resents it).
I guess from Hiromi's point of view she finally gets to have Shin see "only" her in a sense in a way that he didn't earlier while there were all those false pretenses as in episode 4 with the "double scene".
For Noe the ending is definitely the heaviest in some sense because although she is finally complete by the end, she has to leave Shin walking away because she is "unable to fly" at that point.
cloudninja
2008-03-30, 00:33
Yes, I totally agree. This name of the game is "bittersweet" in every sense of the word. This wasn't what some might call a "happy ending", because, well... it isn't really all that happy. That being said, I do think it was an incredibly satisfying ending to the story. The point of the episode was not "yay! Shinichirou and Hiromi finally became a couple!". After all, this is a show about tears. Rather, it was about how Shinichirou's and Noe's relationship had helped them grow up. Shinichirou was now able to understand himself, his dreams, and his feelings, and to chase after his goals without hesitation. Noe was finally able to better understand herself and others, and to grieve properly for all the sadness she's faced (the closing scene was so fitting in so many ways). It was an episode about breaking it off with someone you really care about a lot, so that you can be with the one you really love. "What makes you cry?" indeed. It's a pretty harsh life lesson -- no fairy tale. But that's what it means to grow up.
You're right. After rewatching the episode, the writers set an appropriate tone considering all the things that were resolved. I think there were certain expectations from some viewers including myself given how long it took Shin and Hiromi to get together. It jumped from snowing in winter to sometime in the spring with the cherry blossoms late in the episode and of course they have gone on dates already but the writers chose not to show anything to maintain the tone they wanted for the episode.
All of the characters have grown to some extent. Shin, Noe, Hiromi, and Jun were all shown to be willing to accept blame for causing others to be hurt. Hiromi became strong enough to say that she could accept Shin's answer after he had talked to Noe. A lot happened in this episode and in the show in general. There were plenty of connections to be made and subtle details to look for which I enjoyed doing. The writers did a great job. This was the first show to make me want to really participate in a forum and even make an anime music video. After enjoying this for a while longer I'll probably just go back to only watching anime and not spend so much time in the forums.
They can always make a manga and have it tell an alternate ending.
thundrakkon
2008-03-30, 01:02
OK, I have been kind of away from the True Tears thread for a while now, since the drama it was providing was so intense, that I could not handle further analysis in the forums.
I have not read the previous posts yet in the thread, so to have an unbiased opinion on this post.
That said, True Tears has been one heck of a fun ride. I made me go through roller coasters throughout, the last episode was no different. I was a nerve reck throughout, anticipating what will happen next.
Shin'ichiro's heart waving was a very realistic situation, and very understandable. That explains his actions the past few episodes. Noe finally finding her true tears when 1) her heart wavers, and 2) because she was thinking of someone truly dear to her.
It was a little sad for Noe, but the road to the end of the series for Hiromi was sad as well.
I really, really loved this series. The storyline was just so great. I want the US DVDs so bad now. All the characters were just so rich.
Thank you all for making the discussions on the True Tears thread so enjoyable and insightful. This has definitely been one of my best experiences for a show and the forum threads.
AznSoulBoy
2008-03-30, 01:09
Ahhh!! It feels great to be there. No flaming at all. :)
Well, I don't really know what to say. Bittersweet ending?
It was really nice though. They were a lot of things they say and I was like "wow" for each sentences.
I feel sad for Noe though. Seriously, I think I would have done the same thing as Shinichirou. Crying.
As for the couple, I was expecting at least something more after shin declared to go out with him. I was like "that's it for them"? Well, it didn't really matter.
Like recentlessflame said, It wasn't really a happy ending it but more a satisfying ending to the story. Which was very well done.
I will probably comment more, but that's it for now I'm so tired and sleepy. I might rewatch the episode again to understand more about the meaning of what they said.
cebukitty
2008-03-30, 01:15
Yes, I totally agree. This name of the game is "bittersweet" in every sense of the word. This wasn't what some might call a "happy ending", because, well... it isn't really all that happy. That being said, I do think it was an incredibly satisfying ending to the story. The point of the episode was not "yay! Shinichirou and Hiromi finally became a couple!". After all, this is a show about tears. Rather, it was about how Shinichirou's and Noe's relationship had helped them grow up. Shinichirou was now able to understand himself, his dreams, and his feelings, and to chase after his goals without hesitation. Noe was finally able to better understand herself and others, and to grieve properly for all the sadness she's faced (the closing scene was so fitting in so many ways). It was an episode about breaking it off with someone you really care about a lot, so that you can be with the one you really love. "What makes you cry?" indeed. It's a pretty harsh life lesson -- no fairy tale. But that's what it means to grow up.
When you state it like that, it makes me feel a whole lot better about Noe.
Shin and Noe were fated to meet. Remember the vision Shin had of Noe staring up a tree while he was working on that picture book? But not to become lovers but to make an impact in each other's life so that both of them could grow up and fly T_T
As a Noe fan, I'm content that at least Shin cried tears for Noe (his heart was truly breaking when they parted) and that Noe will always have a special place in his heart (notice that his final doodle was of a couple watching one of those ancient airplanes take flight)
We all wanted our happy endings but at least none of us left empty handed :)
Well, of course. Hiromi is just a side character, she doesn't even have a personality! Beside, after Shin got bored, he would probably dump her.
Notice something here, Shin chose Hiromi because he loves her, but the person that made his heart Waver/shiver is Noe. He chose the tender love over the passionate love. He felt obligated for Hiromi because he had been in love with her for so long, while Noe came after it.
Anyway, I would have been fine with either girl, because I liked both. My favorite was shot down so early in the competition. After watching many time for Noe's scenes, I really felt sorry for Noe, If noe had won I would have felt sorry for Hiromi too. I am weird that even when the girl that I am rooting for wins I feel sad for the other girl.
In some sense the scene of Noe walking away from Shin is supposed to be as powerful as the scene of Shin and Hiromi that follows; a kiss or more later might have tilted the resolution in Hiromi's favor in some sense. That's probably why they show Shin saying stuff as each of the girls is in their own element...
When you put it that way, I kind of see what writers were trying to convey now. I think this is the reason why I feel a bit unsatisfying with the ending: since the writers has gone all the way to break Noe's heart, I at least expect them to show that the break-up was worth being done. That will at least made some justice for Noe to walk away from Shin. Yet we didn't get a chance to see it.
And Noe, though being able to cry again, is all alone now. So when I saw Noe's tears at the end, my heart aches as hell. I know it's part of growing up, and I saw it coming for a long time now, but when I actually get to see the scene, I still couldn't help feeling sad for her. The writers definitely did a good job leaving the sad feelings in audiences' hearts there...
Yes, I totally agree. This name of the game is "bittersweet" in every sense of the word. This wasn't what some might call a "happy ending", because, well... it isn't really all that happy. That being said, I do think it was an incredibly satisfying ending to the story. The point of the episode was not "yay! Shinichirou and Hiromi finally became a couple!". After all, this is a show about tears. Rather, it was about how Shinichirou's and Noe's relationship had helped them grow up. Shinichirou was now able to understand himself, his dreams, and his feelings, and to chase after his goals without hesitation. Noe was finally able to better understand herself and others, and to grieve properly for all the sadness she's faced (the closing scene was so fitting in so many ways). It was an episode about breaking it off with someone you really care about a lot, so that you can be with the one you really love. "What makes you cry?" indeed. It's a pretty harsh life lesson -- no fairy tale. But that's what it means to grow up.
Since I was the one raising concern about "happy ending" in the previous thread (link (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1487078&postcount=230)), I feel the urge to respond to this a little bit...
When I said "happy ending" in the previous thread, albeit somewhat naive, I wished for all of them to be happy in the end -- whether it's Jun or Hiromi or Noe. But as expected, one episode is too short to see them all being happy as they've just learned their big life lessons. And on second thought, such happy ending might be a bit boring: the bittersweet ending seems to add grown-up tone to the series, which is a lot more fitting anyway.
I guess it'll be easier for me to analyze things once I get to see the subs. It was too early for me to make my previous comment when I haven't understood all the conversations in the episode yet. I was so excited with the series that I jumped ahead of myself there...
Whitemoon648
2008-03-30, 02:41
I voted it 10/10 although i was a Shin X Noe ending.
Well The only reason i gave it a 10 was that well almost all of characters redeemed themselves. Especially , I was glad to see Hiromi Redeem herself.
Well it was kind of sad . seeing how Shin was crying as Noe was leaving but i guess everything worked out at the end. And Noe Now has friends which was great to see.
I think the ending was decent. Complete opposite of School days.
ZODDGUTS
2008-03-30, 02:48
Well, of course. Hiromi is just a side character, she doesn't even have a personality! Beside, after Shin got bored, he would probably dump her.
Hiromi does have a personality the only reason why early on she was all cold and stiff was because she wanted to keep a distance between herself and Shin. But once the whole truth came out about them not being related and Shin's mom stop being such a bitch towards her she was finally able to be more open. Shin won't dump her both clearly get along very well both have made each other laugh and smile they also enjoy each other's company they really fit well together. So Shin is not just with her because of her good looks but because of her personality that fits well with his.
Plus why would he get bored of her? She's already learning the splits for him their both are gonna have lots of fun together in Hiromi's apartment. :D Noe is too pure and innocent to do anything like that. Hiromi has been rather aggresive towards Shin, she took off her clothes in front of him, he's seen her nearly naked in the beggining of the series obviously Hiromi "accidently" left the bathroom door unlock for shin to enter then that kiss that she gave him and the drinking cup scene in this episode while Shin was still holding it + the splits she learned equals a girl willing to do anything to get her man and to make sure she keeps him.
Shin cleary made the right choice and won't ever get bored of her.
I know my first post was definitely knee-jerk, not out of some Noe fanboyism, but rather seeing another example of how Japanese script writers rarely get a romance "right".
Shin picked the safe, juvenile relationship rather than a complex, mature relationship with either of the two other girls. There is a lot to be said here to explain this point and I will try to be concise and orderly.
First and foremost partners in a romantic relationship should be friends. Friendship is what sustains a love relationship, in fact this is so important that partners should always consider themselves friends first and lovers second. Now, one can care about and have affection for someone without being a friend and this can commonly be seen in familial love. So where is the friendship with Hiromi? There is clearly establed friendship with Aiko and he and Noe certainly developed a friendship, but in 13 episodes I never once saw anything between him and Hiromi that resembled friendship.
Secondly, true romantic love is something that makes one more than what they are. Shin loves Hiromi but all that affection makes him do is flounder, never growing or changing, becoming more than he is. A more "whole" person if you will. Accepting someone wholly for who they are is not really a good thing, that is known as enabling and leads to co-dependent relationships which are horrid travesties. Enter Noe into Shin's life and look at the lengths he begins to go through to grow and mature because of her. A relationship with Noe would mean continued growth as a person, with Hiromi he gets to stay where he is maturity-wise. One is "safe" the other isn't.
Mostly I think the outcome of True Tears is indicative of how Japanese culture views romantic relationships. It is a rare occasion when a main male character of a romance makes the risky but potentially more fulfilling choice of who to be with. I thought this series was going to but I was disappointed. It seems KgNE will remain my top romance anime still.
So with those important factors of a mature romantic relationship the score is as follows:
Friendship:
Aiko: Yes
Hiromi: No
Noe: Yes
Self-Betterment:
Aiko: No
Hiromi: No
Noe: Yes
Even Aiko was a better choice than Hiromi if Shin was looking for REAL love.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
2008-03-30, 03:48
Disappointed that Noe is not the one that Shin chose.I kind of foresee that but i did not want to believe it.Still,i won't be biased in judging this show just because i didn't get to watch the pairing that i wanted.But the writers could at least do some justice to Noe.Poor girl.
NoOneKnowS
2008-03-30, 03:53
I know my first post was definitely knee-jerk, not out of some Noe fanboyism, but rather seeing another example of how Japanese script writers rarely get a romance "right".
Shin picked the safe, juvenile relationship rather than a complex, mature relationship with either of the two other girls. There is a lot to be said here to explain this point and I will try to be concise and orderly.
First and foremost partners in a romantic relationship should be friends. Friendship is what sustains a love relationship, in fact this is so important that partners should always consider themselves friends first and lovers second. Now, one can care about and have affection for someone without being a friend and this can commonly be seen in familial love. So where is the friendship with Hiromi? There is clearly establed friendship with Aiko and he and Noe certainly developed a friendship, but in 13 episodes I never once saw anything between him and Hiromi that resembled friendship.
Secondly, true romantic love is something that makes one more than what they are. Shin loves Hiromi but all that affection makes him do is flounder, never growing or changing, becoming more than he is. A more "whole" person if you will. Accepting someone wholly for who they are is not really a good thing, that is known as enabling and leads to co-dependent relationships which are horrid travesties. Enter Noe into Shin's life and look at the lengths he begins to go through to grow and mature because of her. A relationship with Noe would mean continued growth as a person, with Hiromi he gets to stay where he is maturity-wise. One is "safe" the other isn't.
Mostly I think the outcome of True Tears is indicative of how Japanese culture views romantic relationships. It is a rare occasion when a main male character of a romance makes the risky but potentially more fulfilling choice of who to be with. I thought this series was going to but I was disappointed. It seems KgNE will remain my top romance anime still.
So with those important factors of a mature romantic relationship the score is as follows:
Friendship:
Aiko: Yes
Hiromi: No
Noe: Yes
Self-Betterment:
Aiko: No
Hiromi: No
Noe: Yes
Even Aiko was a better choice than Hiromi if Shin was looking for REAL love.
Um....Shin; Hiromi; Noe are just middle/high-school students. Complex as their character may be; in the end. They're all just kids undergoing adulthood. I don't really think each of them really knows the meaning of "true love" but at least its safe to say; Shin is indeed inlove w/ Hiromi. At the moment yeah yeah; Shin is w/ Hiromi blah blah; but don't forget that it might turn to true love in the end. Lets just say; Shin and Hiromi badly wanted to be w/ each other m'kay. :D And now they're together. Lets just be happy cause they all got what they wanted. Shin got Hiromi; and vice versa. Noe finally getting her "tears" back. Jun finally admitting his feelings. Aiko finally moving forward and forgetting about shin. And Nobuse being a man facing his own love issues alone w/out the help/support of Shin.
oompa loompa
2008-03-30, 04:22
well, im glad its shin x hiromi. because, shin is boring, and so is hiromi ! i mean that in a good way ( as strange as it sounds ) as far as im concerned, i used to be all for hiromi, but the winner of this has gotta be aiko , i mean shes gonna get nobuse right? nobuse > 10 x shin any day ;)
Pellissier
2008-03-30, 04:28
While I understand that trying to stop the shipping at this point of time is rather useless, can we please try not to bring the discussed matters to personal grounds?
Using confrontational methods doesn't make your points stronger, and even less of a result you'll obtain by attacking (subtly or blatantly) someone else. raidragon, you can try to illustrate your point again, if you can manage to keep personal judgements out. Please stay focused on the series' only, when commenting someone else's opinions.
Of course, this goes for everyone.
P.S.: If you aren't successfully married and/or haven't studied psychology on a college level please do not bother trying to refute this. :P
I'd like this kind of approach to be avoided. You see, I did study psychology on a college level so am I allowed to reply? If not I wasn't? (or at least, not in a credible way?) Sorry, but this is not how AnimeSuki works, it is meant to be a place where everyone can gather their opinion in a peaceful manner, and with no fears of being flamed.
My wish is to encourage people in contributing here by giving their two cents, but putting things in such confrontational ways actually is discouraging, as a matter of facts.
For those reasons, I removed that line from your post, as it wasn't adding any weight and was only possibly there to attract flames.
grey_moon
2008-03-30, 04:29
Very enjoyable show. The ending was how I thought it would be apart from the Noe breakup. Wow the depths of his feelings for Hiromi must be so great if breaking up with Noe is that painful.
Well they do say that love is illogical and TT shows it in a very well done way. As pointed out many times it was Noe who inspired him to draw, but now we find she inspired him to dance as well. I guess that is why Hiromi acted so put out each time she saw Noe influence in the two main things of Shin's life.
I wish we got more of a hint to why Shin loves Hiromi so much, but I guess love is one of the greatest plot devices ever :p
All in all I'm very happy with this ending.
Shin got the best of both worlds, ie the girl he loves and someone to inspire him (I hope he remains friends with Noe)
Ai and Nobu seem to be getting on well.
Jun was able to keep his deviant tenancies under control.
Hiromi did the splits :p
Finally Noe seems able to move on and make friends with her peers. When she was looking at the writing on the ground I just wanted to give her a big hug!
At first I was a little put out by Noe not crying, but then if I take the point about the heart wavering, it just shows that Noe's heart has never wavered...
Still can't wrap my head around Shin's mum and Hiromi, so I've put in down to insane jealous mother syndrome (I can't remember who pointed that one out :p)
Again a very good show.
A quick post after watching the episode.
At first I was a little put out by Noe not crying, but then if I take the point about the heart wavering, it just shows that Noe's heart has never wavered...
Watch the ending theme all the way through. :)
Still can't wrap my head around Shin's mum and Hiromi, so I've put in down to insane jealous mother syndrome (I can't remember who pointed that one out :p)
Memememememe me.. :D No really, the past event had been drawn parallel to the present trio. We can have an educated guess about how things transpired by looking at Shin+Hiromi+Noe trio. What really went wrong in the past was what Shin's dad said, "he wavered." I still need to watch the sub.
nice episode, nice ending.
Shin's mother telling Hiromi waiting is need alot endurance. Don't tell me Shin parent has same experiece as Shin now? Shin like Hiromi but at the sametime Noe is important to him, that was painful.
For AIko, seem very happy with Nobuse now, not bad. And Jun go to other place(and have a kid behind) who is that kid? Or i think too much. Shin continue his drawing. Noe finally found some friend.
And finally, Noe can collect the tears, once again tears, that was a good actually, hope she will find her hapiness. The last part was really beautiful, the tear fly on the sky :D.
Series end now, going to miss it :(.
raidragon
2008-03-30, 04:55
well, i'm sorry for that^^.....but yeah, his P.S. kind of make me feel irritated after i finish eps 13^^.......but overall.. i give only 8/10 ....weird ending scene...and not an appropriate time to insert the opening song^^
grey_moon
2008-03-30, 04:55
Watch the ending theme all the way through. :)
Arrrrggghhh I just got struck in the heart with a spear! Oh noes sniffle sniffle sniffle :(
Pellissier
2008-03-30, 04:56
Still can't wrap my head around Shin's mum and Hiromi, so I've put in down to insane jealous mother syndrome (I can't remember who pointed that one out :p)
At the end, quite like you, I wasn't really able to discern all that lies in Shin mother's past. If anything, a couple of interactions from this episode (specifically: Shin with his father, Hiromi with Shin's mother), gave me some clues to build a theory I will keep as valid for myself, in absence of an universally undeniable truth.
Shin's father when young was in love with and loved by both Shin's mother and Hiromi's mother. He chose Shin's mother at the end, but never made things clear with the other. This caused Shin mother's grudge towards Hiromi, and her lying to her about her husband possibly having had a relationship with Hiromi's mother, out of pure spite.
In the present days, if we label Shin's father as Shin, Shin's mother as Hiromi and Hiromi's mother as Noe, the story is quite the same. Shin was committing the same mistake his father did, but at the end he managed to be decisive and chose, clearing up things. It was an hard choice, but he had to, otherwise his family could have been cursed by the same spell his own family had, constituted by cold, bad mood and growing tensions. Not always you can have triggers to unlock such situations (in the series, the unlocking trigger was the contemporary Shin's being too late and Hiromi's disappearance in episode 8), and it's possible that they can drag ahead forever.
Clearing things up avoided a total parallelism with the elders' story. It still was a parallelism, but with a different (better) path in the end.
I also give a whole new meaning to the opening song, and especially to its title. So the reflections were referred to the two trios ?
Who knows, but in this anime mainly made of subtlety and light appearing yet heavy weighing elements, we need to take whatever it's given :)
edit: I see that mr.Kakkoii (monir) had the same thoughts I had. Before ep.13, we were both slightly uncertain on how to judge this whole Shin's family issue, but it seems we've come to independent yet similar conclusions. ^^
@Pellissier: sry. the "P.S." was so we didn't have to deal with refutation of solid and established maxims of a mature relationship. I in no way wanted to discourage opinions about the characters' choices in the series. Only that Shin's choice was a poor one considering the circumstances and that his choice was a very good representation of how Japan prefers romantic choices.
grey_moon
2008-03-30, 05:12
Only that Shin's choice was a poor one considering the circumstances and that his choice was a very good representation of how Japan prefers romantic choices.
I have a hard time trying to define (pigeon hole) what is considered romantic. Mainly it is in the eye of the beholder, but also my ideal relationship is so far off the base of what I guess could be considered the Hollywood idea of romance... But that aside, when I look at Shin's choice of Hiromi compared to Noe, it pains me to say that he made what I think is the right choice.
I much prefer Noe over Hiromi just because I prefer a relationship where each member of the partnership inspires the other to live life and grow together.
With Hiromi I didn't get much of that feeling apart from the need to be protected and the need to protect (Hiromi lost, and Shin wanting to wipe away her tears {I kinda think that is protecting}).
In the short time he was with Noe he imho grew so much as a person. The Shin of epi 1 was I am afraid to say a soon to be emo teen, but he was saved by chickens of all the things :heh:
I do think Noe got the shorter end of the stick in that partnership, but from the end of epi 13 which I missed the first time around, the relationship did set her free. Noe finding friends I think was something she would have done given half the chance as I do believe that people are not all mindless fork wielding mobs who stake and burn all that does not conform to the norm. Noe is sweet and pure, and only a little weird with the cockroach song :p
So why do i feel that Hiromi is a better choice? Well Shin is emotion driven and his idea of love is Hiromi, so for him to pick Noe would be a lie and that would go against the whole True XXX aspect of this story.
Sorrow-K
2008-03-30, 05:25
The technical execution of this series was outstanding, but, geez, I grew to be so indifferent to these characters by the end. It's hard to be emotionally invested in the drama when you can't sympathize with the characters at all, and this is probably why I struggled with this series so much.
I loved the way this anime approached everything, and the directing from Nishimura Junji was great. I can't wait to see what P.A. Works does next, but I'd hope whatever it is, it has more sympathetic characters than this. This ultimately gets a "meh" from me.
Really Enjoyed the overall ending. Aiko got the shaft she was my original pic. but meh she got a good ending either way
Hiromi really grew as a character alot, while she seemed kinda mean she was just troubled. I mean she wanted Shin nearby and I admired that. Shin however was kinda unsure about everything so it made it alot harder for hiromi. Hiromi was def the right pic because she had loved him since childhood.
Noe I didnt really like BUT felt kinda sorry for her, afterall she did kinda get the shaft at the end. I didn't really know if i felt "conclusive" about her ending
Shins dad played a bigger role than people think and he was just a pimp.
overall AWESOME series. I do wish they would've at least KISSED at the end ahah. btw hiromi+glasses....too kawaii
Now that I have a chance to see the subs, my feeling toward the ep. is much better. As many people said, just about every conversation in the ep. had so much depth that you're blown away...
I like it how Jun came clean with Hiromi and Shin this ep. Though on the rooftop he said he couldn't forgive Shin when he 'shooed' Shin away, he definitely did it just to let Shin go and officially broke the contract they had. He also let Hiromi go, while not forgetting to tell her that it's not her fault. In a way of doing so, he broke himself free from the mess he created so that he can start all anew (which is nicely illustrated with the red cloth flying up to the sky). Though the scene itself was quite understated, symbolically it was simply a beautiful scene...
And though Hiromi was quite insecure last time, this episode she found a courage to let Shin resolve the relationship in any way he wants, and she'll accept it. That's yet another sign of her emotional growth, which is what I'm glad to see. And it actually paid off, since they finally got together.
A couple of episodes ago I predicted that the Shin-Hiromi arc will come to a full circle during the dance, since it was during the festival that they started developing feelings for each other. Instead, the plot came to a full circle on this bamboo pathway. Very very fitting indeed.
As I said earlier, Noe is the catalyst that stirs the changes in other characters. Without her, all the main characters would probably have stayed in their emotional deadlocks. As such, she's definitely an angel that showed all other characters the way. And what Shin realizes during the dance was this probably this fact. He came to realize that he just went with the flows all along. Whether it's about his love for Hiromi, his drawing, or his dance. He just accepts what ever given to him. Can't get to Hiromi? I guess I'll just give up and look at her from afar. Noe wanted me to draw? I'll just draw it because she wants it. The dance I do always got me compared with my father? I don't love it but I'll just do it because it's what I'm supposed to do being born into this family; I'll always live under my father's shadow. Yet through interactions with Noe, he starts to follow his own heart. He now finds the courage to reach out for Hiromi. He drew the story because he wants her to see it (not because of just Noe wanting him to draw). And he finds the reason to dance on his own, not just to fufill the duty.
So, when you have such a good memorable time with this person, yet you have to break her heart, it'll pain you more than anything. The fact that Shin already developed some feelings (whether it's romantic or not) for Noe doesn't help either. So Shin has to face with the situation where he both got his heart broken and feeling extremely guilty at the same time (and rightly so). I think Noe knows this. That's why she didn't let Shin walk her back, and just said not to worry about her. In short, I believe Shin's breakdown was mostly from the sadness of hurting Noe, who is definitely a precious person to him.
What I really like was the conversation they had before Noe heading back. On the surface, it may seem that Noe just talked about her leg. But as they still talked with the word "flying", we can see deeper meaning than that. In a way, Noe said to Shin that, though she can't fly yet, but once she has her heart healed, she'll definitely be able to fly for sure. What she said was to imply both her physical and mental states. Again, it's symbolism, yet beautifully executed again.
All in all, I guess I have to take my words back about Shin not doing anything much this episode. From a second look, he's improved quite a bit. And there's no helping it that Shin didn't get to help Noe back on her feet even when they broke up. She has always been strong from the very beginning, so it probably is fine that it was Noe herself who walked away from the break-up without tears, and it was Shin himself who has to kneel down and cry.
greyhawk
2008-03-30, 06:01
God knows I had to try to sympathize with the characters. Even so, it was no escapist entertainment I long for in an anime series, but rather some grudging acceptance. Not to mention there weren't really any touching moments or anything that would "make my heart waver". Mind if I say the ending was so typical?
Much as I hate to say it, watching real-life dramas seems a bit more enjoyable. I think I won't give True Tears another shot, meh. Well, there goes another series with a good start but became so-so at the end (is Clannad included, u guess)
Ascaloth
2008-03-30, 06:08
Watched Episode 13.
I was eating a takeaway dinner while watching this episode tonight. I should have known it was a mistake to bother with a takeaway dinner at all. The writers somehow made me eat enough of my own words for dinner.
GJ, Shinichiro. You were an idiot for the most part, but you did manage to set things right in the end. And you know what, I'm willing to give the guy a pass just for that.
9/10. Blog article coming either tonight or later in the week, depending on whether I can finish my schoolwork in time. Expect a Triple Critique in the near future, too.
@Grey_Moon: I'm not trying to "pigeon hole". There are a number of studies/surveys done on international views on relationships. One such study found that on average Japanese men only kissed their wives/girlfriends once every two days. A majority of those men also felt working and paying bills is a sign of affection. Also in another study most Japanese men described their wife/girlfriend as a partner but not a friend. Another study showed that despite the very low divorce rate in Japan it has one of the highest marital dissatisfaction rates among modernized countries. In my opinion this is not a healthy societal norm for any culture and shows that conclude as True Tears did only goes to reinforce this norm with the younger generations of Japan.
That aside I feel all other aspects of the series were very well done and most enjoyable.
grey_moon
2008-03-30, 06:22
@Grey_Moon: I'm not trying to "pigeon hole". There are a number of studies/surveys done on international views on relationships. One such study found that on average Japanese men only kissed their wives/girlfriends once every two days. A majority of those men also felt working and paying bills is a sign of affection. Also in another study most Japanese men described their wife/girlfriend as a partner but not a friend. Another study showed that despite the very low divorce rate in Japan it has one of the highest marital dissatisfaction rates among modernized countries. In my opinion this is not a healthy societal norm for any culture and shows that conclude as True Tears did only goes to reinforce this norm with the younger generations of Japan.
That aside I feel all other aspects of the series was very well done and most enjoyable.
Fair points..
On the subject of choosing Hiromi, anyone else get the feeling of mumcon going on there. I look at Hiromi and I see a mini-shin's mum....
TrueKnight
2008-03-30, 06:26
Excellent series.
Eventhough they tend to over-DRAMATIZE most of the parts, the execution was beautiful. This is one of the better show this season along with the finale of Gundam 00 season 1 and the Spice and Wolf.
Fair points..
On the subject of choosing Hiromi, anyone else get the feeling of mumcon going on there. I look at Hiromi and I see a mini-shin's mum....
Huh... now that you mention it it does kinda smack of an Oedipus complex.
This was a Noe ending on all scales!
It was clear form the beginning, that Hiromi and Shin will end up together, but in the end, Noe outshines them all. She matured more than anyone else in this story. While being the catalyst for the other people to realize their own feelings and leading them a step forward, she herself did at least two steps and jumped over them all.
At the end when she stood there with the slightly grown hair and a face where all that childish naivety vanished and instead showed a warm knowing easeful smile, I almost fell in love.
Hiromi and Shin, Ai and Miyokichi continue living their normal everyday lives while Jun is probably the most tragic character and I think it's sad, that they didn't make more out of his story.
cebukitty
2008-03-30, 06:32
Huh... now that you mention it it does kinda smack of an Oedipus complex.
I see it too ^ ^
@Grey_Moon: I'm not trying to "pigeon hole". There are a number of studies/surveys done on international views on relationships. One such study found that on average Japanese men only kissed their wives/girlfriends once every two days. A majority of those men also felt working and paying bills is a sign of affection. Also in another study most Japanese men described their wife/girlfriend as a partner but not a friend. Another study showed that despite the very low divorce rate in Japan it has one of the highest marital dissatisfaction rates among modernized countries. In my opinion this is not a healthy societal norm for any culture and shows that conclude as True Tears did only goes to reinforce this norm with the younger generations of Japan.
That aside I feel all other aspects of the series were very well done and most enjoyable.
I think if you set all the psychology studies aside and focus on what's implied throughout the series, you'll come to understand Shin and his choice more. It has been stated for so many times through so many threads about relationship Shin and Hiromi had since their childhood. Though we got only as far as the one-sandal walk during flashback, their friendship probably started even earlier (as their parents know each other). They've been friends probably as far as they were born. And the puppy love started to grew on them as they did that one-sandal walk. That's why they both cherished the memory so much. The thing to complicates their situation was the loss of Hiromi's parents, and the lie Shin's mom gave her. That was the reason why we saw her being distant from Shin. Just because we didn't see their relationship since childhood doesn't mean that there isn't any. True Tears is quite a different beast compared to other series that stick so closely to cliche' plots and stuff. So I don't see the needs to even try to make a comparison between them. It's just so apple-to-orange, really.
And if you followed their line of actions closely, for the whole time, Shin was longing for her, and Hiromi was longing for him. Just look at how Shin embraced Hiromi when realizing that she wasn't injured from accident, how Hiromi did everything to let Shin knows of her feelings, or how they ran toward each other when they parted. If this doesn't count as strong love developed from friendship, then I don't really know what is.
Then, try to compare that relationship with what Shin had with Noe. Though it was very mutual, it's still in a number of months (compared to years that Shin-Hiromi counterpart). And more than anything, Shin-Noe pair started with a false premise. Shin forced himself into the relationship because he already handed Hiromi over to Jun. That's why I'm glad that this relationship is broken. Noe definitely deserves a real relationship.
Liddo-kun
2008-03-30, 07:27
Ahhh!!!! Just watched the final episode. So happy, I'm sooo happy. XD
http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/files/bwi4d2cnuzf88xz0g7t3.gif (http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/)http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/files/bwi4d2cnuzf88xz0g7t3.gif (http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/)http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/files/bwi4d2cnuzf88xz0g7t3.gif (http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/)
*cough...sorry about that just can't control myself. It's obviuos I gave this ep. a perfect 10. Hiromi, I wish you and Shin a good life. :)
grey_moon
2008-03-30, 07:45
It has been stated for so many times through so many threads about relationship Shin and Hiromi had since their childhood. Though we got only as far as the one-sandal walk during flashback, their friendship probably started even earlier (as their parents know each other). They've been friends probably as far as they were born. And the puppy love started to grew on them as they did that one-sandal walk. That's why they both cherished the memory so much. The thing to complicates their situation was the loss of Hiromi's parents, and the lie Shin's mom gave her. That was the reason why we saw her being distant from Shin. Just because we didn't see their relationship since childhood doesn't mean that there isn't any. True Tears is quite a different beast compared to other series that stick so closely to cliche' plots and stuff. So I don't see the needs to even try to make a comparison between them. It's just so apple-to-orange, really.
Actually we can't say that at all. For all we know is after Shin "saved" her from the road, the just looked at each other from afar.
And them being friends from birth is something i can't easily swallow, especially since Shin's mum hates Hiromi's mum and everything that represents her.
night train
2008-03-30, 07:52
I enjoyed the episode but something is bugging me after watching it. Who was Hiromi talking to after Shin left the house to show Noe his book? From the conversation alone, it seems fishy and kinda implied the guy had been there before since he invited himself over. Lastly, the look on Shin's mom face while overhearing their exchange is also of concern. Wished they would of explained that part.
Actually we can't say that at all. For all we know is after Shin "saved" her from the road, the just looked at each other from afar.
And them being friends from birth is something i can't easily swallow, especially since Shin's mum hates Hiromi's mum and everything that represents her.
I second this. The points raised previously certainly denote affection but not what I would consider friendship.
Solafighter
2008-03-30, 08:09
Great last episode! :)
An ending, i kinda expected. :eyespin:
All in one, this is a great anime. :)
Actually we can't say that at all. For all we know is after Shin "saved" her from the road, the just looked at each other from afar.
And them being friends from birth is something i can't easily swallow, especially since Shin's mum hates Hiromi's mum and everything that represents her.
On the first note, all I can say is, to each his own. If it happens to be something otherwise, then it wouldn't make sense in the first place. Hence the complaint Luapman has. When something feels wrong, it doesn't necessarily means that such something is really wrong, you know. Maybe it's just the view you have. Once you shift your perspective a little, you can see things in a new light... Just my friendly 2 cents.
And for the second part, I don't think it's fair to mix parents' issue with Shin-Hiromi. If they shared the same sentiment Shin's mom has with Hiromi's mom, I don't think they'll even be friends and spending time together in the festival in the first place. And if they despised each other, there would also be no need for her to run after him, and no reason for him to accompany her. Their closeness in relationship was implied quite a lot in that one short scene, even though they hadn't even spoken one single word...
but the winner of this has gotta be aiko , i mean shes gonna get nobuse right? nobuse > 10 x shin any day ;)
Very likely, the director and writers at the end show Aiko acting toward Nobuse the same way she acted toward Shin (hint hint). they still leave it up to the audience and don't give us any concrete answer.
w00tness
2008-03-30, 08:31
So just watched this ep and..
Im still kinda disappointed in Shin.. He still didnt do anything UNTIL Hiromi herself came up to him and clearly confessed her feelings, and told him to clear things up no matter his decision. I think that took a lot of guts on her side because she wouldnt know if Shin would be coming back to her in the end, but for her that was better than her thinking she has won when she doesnt really know Shins true feelings.
In terms of comparing Hiromi and Shins mom, its obvious that the link is for both of them, the heart of the person they liked wavered, and while that heart wavered they had no choice but to wait. For Shins mom it was even worse (assuming the wavering started after their marriage), because then she would be filled with insecurities and probably lost a lot of self confidence. Thus she projects those negative feelings unto Hiromi's mom and blames her for everything (and when Hiromi's mom died, she passed those feelings to Hiromi). Hiromi and Shins mom must love Shin and Shins dad really deeply though, for them to endure such. I for one know that my girlfriend would leave me if my heart even wavered xD, at least thats what she keeps reminding me. In terms of comparing personalities though, I dont think Hiromi shares Shin's mom's personality. She's insecure, and does "shameless" things to try to hook Shin. She obviously isnt Noe's best friend, and perhaps she doesnt like Noe at all, but do you see any Noe hate in Hiromi's eyes akin to the Hiromi hate in Shin's mom's eyes in the first few episodes? Aside from that one incident at the chicken pen in school, at the lowest point of Hiromi and Shins relationship, at least I have never seen her hate Noe.
One thing I really didnt like about this episode is Shin singing after Noe. Sure, you might really have strong feelings for Noe, and its admirable that you could finally make your choice, even though it seems that that choice hurts you deeply too, as you cry when you say you love Yuasa Hiromi as if though you wished you didnt like her but liked Noe instead. But then think about Noe, if its hard for you to say you dont love Noe, dont you think its even harder for Noe to hear that you dont love her? Noe already has the burden of being rejected by you, dont add to that burden by crying after her. If you really feel bad, cry silently. Go home and cry in your bed. Noe still loves you, dont you think it adds to her sadness to hear her loved one cry after her? I dont know, compare it with Juns tears, and I think Jun handled his feelings much better in front of the one he loved.
Noe noe noe. Shes a really strong girl. I didnt know how the writers could pull off a happy ending for her, and I guess they didnt, but they made it bittersweet in the sense that they made it such that Noe is emotionally strong enough to accept everything and move on, which I didnt expect, but am glad that it turned out such.
tldr:
Hiromi = <3
Noe = <3
Shin = DIAF
Oh, and for the record, I was on the Shin x Hiromi ship, but now that my girl "won" im kinda disappointed, because the last few episodes really sealed my dislike for Shin.
grey_moon
2008-03-30, 08:51
But then think about Noe, if its hard for you to say you dont love Noe, dont you think its even harder for Noe to hear that you dont love her?
Yah I thought that was a very good scene and I too think it wasn't a case of does he love Hiromi or Noe, but which one he loves more.
All of the theories of how deep their relationship was before the show started aside, I think that the good old loves her for the sake of loving her to be far more eloquent and fitting then all of the complicated reasonings put together.
Talk about complicated, I am going to miss all the discussions about the chickens.
Kimikiss frogs fail
TT chickens win
Noe :(
I was sure to win after the first half of the episode =/
DragoonKain3
2008-03-30, 09:15
*facepalm*
Probably the biggest complaint I have IS the ending scene. Hiromi was spot on, I can give you that. She knows that Noe still has a place in Shin's heart, and so that's why she was rejecting him at first.
But Shin more or less proposing to Hiromi, by saying he'll be with her forever? When in the scene just before, his heart was 'wavering' or 'aching'? Excuse me while I try not to gag.
By itself, Shin's proposal scene would be very moving, as it would've shown the depth of his feelings for Hiromi. But that's if they skipped from episode 10 to episode 13, and without him admitting his heart was wavering whenever he sees Noe in the middle of this episode.
But him doing that 'proposal' after episodes 11 and 12, and so soon after his 'break-up' with Noe just makes his confession looks like a whole pile of bullshit. Even from the previous two episodes, there had already been signs of him 'wavering' from Hiromi. You just can't go from 'wavering' stance to 'proposal' stance over the course of just one scene. Saying you'll be together forever with a girl implies that during that time, it's only that one girl in your heart. But with Shin wavering just the scene before, that doesn't seem to be the case, and so his words of wanting to be with Hiromi for eternity sounds hollow and empty to me despite how well the VA did his job.
Heck, even the comment by Shin after the fact was that he said that the tears come naturally if you think of the one you truly care for. From memory the only girl shown Shin cried for would be Noe, and so that makes me facepalm even more about the confession scene.
The way they should've done it is that his confession scene shouldn't have been as strong. Something along the lines of him still feeling a bit for Noe still, but in the end it's Hiromi who he feels more for and he'll try to think only of her in the future. Either that, or they have them not hook up then, but in a timeskip show that they get together in the future. Or even *gasp* a Noe ending, as long as he doesn't do the same proposal jibberish with her. However, essentially proposing to Hiromi was a very big mistake on the animator's part, as doing that requires almost absolute dedication to a girl in the protagonist's heart, and the animators have shown anything but for the last 3 episodes.
So yeah, Hiromifag here who didn't like the ending at all. While it wasn't downright atrocious, it was still a major disappointment for me. Now I'm just deciding how big a penalty I'm giving to TT's overall score, but this ain't the overall series impresssion thread, so I'll leave it at that.
WTF do japanese romance plot/script writers have with childhood friends always being the ones to hook-up when their relationship is clearly sub-par of the other choices shown.
Now THAT is the complaint I want to hear about childhood friends, and none of the 'they never win' bullshit.
That said, whether a relationship is 'better' than another doesn't have (and shouldn't have) any influence on the final pairing. In the end, it's the character's feelings that count. That just doesn't go for this archetype, but for the entire romance genre.
Of course it goes without saying that I'll almost always disagree with the childhood friend relationship being sub-par, but that's for another thread and another time. Won't be for a while though, as I'm afraid I'm still burnt out from the KimiKiss thread... :heh:
In my opinion this is not a healthy societal norm for any culture and shows that conclude as True Tears did only goes to reinforce this norm with the younger generations of Japan.What societal norm should we be going for instead? American?
grey_moon
2008-03-30, 09:48
What societal norm should we be going for instead? American?
Race, culture and religion aside :p. I've never thought any relationship built up on memories of childhood to be a healthy reason to move into a romantic relationship. I am sure there are 101 reasons why person A falls in love with person B, but lots of shows don't actually show any of that apart from some memory during childhood. So it looks to me like its someone wanting a romantic/adult relationship based on their memories of a child :twitch:
At least with TT it has Shin wanting to continue to protect Hiromi and Hiromi wanting to be protected, so I can dig that.
Lost-Wisdom
2008-03-30, 09:48
In the end, Shin still loved Hiromi in the end. Argh, I thought Noe would have have a chance with
Shin.
Blah, though it's good that Hiromi had more dignity than the last episode. I respect that since she let Shin decide to who he likes.
Still think Shin made a bad decision, it's just my opinion. Noe was above my favorite character. ^_^, just because she was different.
Liddo-kun
2008-03-30, 10:02
With everything said and done and final episode finished.
It's now time to wait for the True Tears favourite character poll. :D
What societal norm should we be going for instead? American?
Don't be hating. I did preface with "In my opinion" you know. And at least my post tied it into the subject at hand so was not off topic, as yours purely is.
@DragoonKain3: Oh, I never said ALL childhood friend hook-ups are sub-par, only that the Hiromi-Shin one is in comparison to an Aiko-Shin or Noe-Shin one. I also have to agree about the promise/proposal point you made, for some reason I think School Days. We all know how that turned out. (Incidentally I loved that series.) It takes a very firm and unwavering heart to say that truthfully and stick to it and Shin was clearly shown not 30 seconds before to certainly not be firm and unwavering. It makes me feel that Shin actually regressed to some degree in his growth in this last episode.
@Grey_Moon: Maybe it's just me but I like to feel equal with my significant other. The whole protected/protector thing is an easy plot device to fall into as an excuse for a relationship in my opinion.
grey_moon
2008-03-30, 10:15
@Grey_Moon: Maybe it's just me but I like to feel equal with my significant other. The whole protected/protector thing is an easy plot device to fall into as an excuse for a relationship in my opinion.
Me too I prefer equality in a relationship, but also I'm a lets grow together type of person.
My fiancée is a high level musician/artist and I'm a drunken geek. Nothing in common at first, but after quite a few years of being together and experiencing each other's likes and dislikes I feel like I've grown as a person. More importantly we've grown together as a couple.
So for me from what we have seen in the show, Noe would be my choice if I was Shin.
First off, hats off to the subbers (you know who) for their great job getting it out very quickly. We all really appreciate it.
First impressions posted here. (http://omohide.com/26/true-tears-13-end/)
My immediate reaction to the final pairing is that, well, it's what we've been expecting and predicting for ages. Is it the one I prefer? Well, no, as I've said. In fact I think the scene where Shin says his heart wavers is pretty important considering it agrees with the things we've been saying, and it dismisses the people who said only Hiromi was in his heart and he only liked Noe because of the deal. Personally I do believe that while the writers told us repeatedly that Hiromi and Shin would be the final true pairing, they (probably unintentionally) put more depth/basis behind the Noe pairing, and this is why I always preferred that one while predicting the Hiromi end. However I also found the development of Hiromi to be exactly what was necessary in episode 13. On the downside, I don't know why they deferred Noe's tears to the final few seconds rather than the climactic scene between her and Shin. More on that later. But here's my thoughts, spoiler-form so that I don't take up the entire page:
My objective comments on episode 13:
It was a good final episode. Like I predicted it did seem to echo KGNE's final episode in some ways. Some people have told me they find it to be a let-down, but honestly, I think we've all just hyping it too much with all of our discussion. There are some oddities (freezing a shot on random boy behind Jun?) and some scenes that could have been done better, but it was pretty much similar in quality to the rest of the episodes. I'm not sure what the point of the "splits" thing was other than to mislead viewers in the preview. The one thing I really liked was that they made Hiromi essentially get up and tell Shin to make a choice regardless of who it was. That was exactly the sort of thing I believed needed to be done to have a satisfying character resolution for Hiromi, even if Shin had or hadn't picked her. I was a bit baffled by the choice to include a scene of Tomoyo missing a basketball shot in the final few minutes.
I appreciated that the writers were more realistic then the forum fans in that they had Shin directly acknowledge the fact that he does have real feelings for Noe as well, enough to make his heart waver (this was a very strong scene, in my opinion). However, he has chosen Hiromi and he is willing to sing loudly and off-key in public to enforce that. :) I really liked this scene because it shows that both sides of the extreme pairing-war were right and wrong. He choses Hiromi and he had to make a real effort to leave Noe. It wasn't a case of "going to her, saying he never actually liked her and it was only a deal" which is similar to some (perhaps exaggerated) expressed predictions. It dismisses that common idea that the only connection Shin had with Noe is the deal with Jun, or that it was a one-sided relationship. I would even say some of what he says is pretty strong, "he was able to draw because of Noe, he was able to dance because she was there". Considering these are two major plot elements, it's interesting that they're said to the "losing" girl in the series. Anyways, this resolution made much more sense and I applaud the writers for tackling it that way.
I also appreciated the closure to the mystery involving Shin's mother. We've gotten a pretty good idea of what happened in the past and how that is echoed in what's going on right now. I know that someone put out a theory earlier to document when Shin's mom started to change and why, I still feel that character-change is the weakest part of the series, but I did like the correlation in this episode between Shin and Hiromi with Shin's parents.
Now here's my Noe-fan comments:
Well obviously it wasn't a Noe ending, but I can't say I didn't find the simplicity of that final scene in front of the chicken coop very touching. Noe's been through a rough ride in the past few episodes but in the end she's still my favourite anime character in a long while regardless of the ending.
Thoughts on the entire relationship plot line, the idea of "consistency", the idea that those who analyze prefer a Hiromi ending, and why I think the show faltered on that:
Throughout the series, I've always predicted Hiromi and Shin ending but preferred a Noe ending, and here's my reason:
First, I think the obvious pairing ever since the first episode was Hiromi and Shin. I don't think it took any advanced analysis to figure that out. The writers repeatedly drove that into our heads. I think the writers had their intentions of what to do with the story but ultimately the thing that failed (for me) is providing depth for Hiromi and Shin's relationship. As a viewer, I saw the writers telling me clearly that Hiromi and Shin love each other but (in my opinion), there was never any basis for it. We have a single childhood memory as children, and then years as casual friends, in Shin's words. Perhaps it's different for others because of our different anime/life experiences, but those things never struck me as being truer or purer love at all. The Hiromi and Shin relationship, as it was portrayed, felt very static and rooted in familiarity and reliance, including post-ep10.
This is a stark contrast with the Noe and Shin relationship. That one was far more dynamic (in my opinion). Noe's presence had a much greater immediate effect on Shin and his own development as a character. As I said before, listen to what he says in episode 13 - he was able to draw because of Noe, he was able to dance because she was there, etc. Combined with the words during the dance in episode 12......this is indicative of the difference compared to the Hiromi-Shin relationship and the value that even Shin himself sees in their relationship. And I believe it all could have equally led to a Noe ending with just as much consistency, though obviously the writers did not choose to end this way. And even though I praised the realism coming from the writers during Shin's final scene with Noe, I suppose I also kind of wish they hadn't made him say that because it just fuels my interpretation further even though the series did not go in that direction. As I said prior to episode 13, I think it would have been impressive for the writers to follow that route but I also knew that at this point, it would have been more difficult for them to have a Noe ending with a happy Hiromi result as well rather than the other way around.
And finally, there one thing which I find contradictory. Noe tries to fly, literally, after watching Shin, who she believes has been able to fly because he's now with Hiromi, watching his (good) dance. However, Shin tells Noe later that he was able to dance well because of her. It seems like a mash of two different messages.
W-General
2008-03-30, 10:37
Sigh, we Noe fans lost...such is life...
It was a good episode, reasonable ending, and overall a great series. Something I could accept. Hiromi is stupid (some of you like to call that "realistic") but I don't hate her. Once she stopped being stupid she's a good girl. (Unlike Kimi ga nozomu eien, I hated Mizuki's guts XD)
At least Miyokichi got together with Aiko. Yay! Miyokichi, you are a nice guy. Nice guys for the win! Miles better than stupid Shin who couldn't decide anything for himself)
FuzzyWuzzy
2008-03-30, 10:40
Beautiful ending.
Even though I would like Noe to be happy and be with Shin, I also want Hiromi and Shin to be happy also. I want all of them to be happy.
I no longer hate Shin. I'm glad episode 13 tells us why he has been so indecisive for so long. I really hated the fact that he was so indecisive and hurts all the people around him. It turns out there's a good reason why. It turns out it's because of my favorite character Noe. Who would have thought it would turn out to be like that.
Great episode! Great series!
Aww what a beautiful ending.
I would like to see Shin with Noe..dunno why, she kinda deserves it. Ah well, everything has come to a good end :)
Wooah i really hope they'll make a 2nd season :O But i guess they wont (kinda know for sure) TT_TT
germanturkey
2008-03-30, 11:45
the point of focusing on the boy after jun is that the directors didn't want to focus on his face. plus the little boy is behind him, symbolizing that jun has walked by it, leaving it in the past. it being his feelings for noe.
At the beginning of ep13, Jun asked Shin [if he understood] why Noe couldn't cry.
“self-suggestion...” "only that?"
Jun and Shin both can't give shiyawase to or "save" Noe despite how much they long for. That is a tragedy.
Noe is something, honorable.
beautiful ending indeed.
Don't be hating. I did preface with "In my opinion" you know. And at least my post tied it into the subject at hand so was not off topic, as yours purely is.?
What societal norm should True Tears be going for instead? American?
That good?
Anyways, since you do seem to imply it, how is America the mecca of correct relationship execution? And how would that be demonstrated had Shin chosen Noe?
Guardian Enzo
2008-03-30, 11:56
*facepalm*
Probably the biggest complaint I have IS the ending scene. Hiromi was spot on, I can give you that. She knows that Noe still has a place in Shin's heart, and so that's why she was rejecting him at first.
By itself, Shin's proposal scene would be very moving, as it would've shown the depth of his feelings for Hiromi. But that's if they skipped from episode 10 to episode 13, and without him admitting his heart was wavering whenever he sees Noe in the middle of this episode.
But him doing that 'proposal' after episodes 11 and 12, and so soon after his 'break-up' with Noe just makes his confession looks like a whole pile of bullshit. Even from the previous two episodes, there had already been signs of him 'wavering' from Hiromi. You just can't go from 'wavering' stance to 'proposal' stance over the course of just one scene. Saying you'll be together forever with a girl implies that during that time, it's only that one girl in your heart. But with Shin wavering just the scene before, that doesn't seem to be the case, and so his words of wanting to be with Hiromi for eternity sounds hollow and empty to me despite how well the VA did his job.
Heck, even the comment by Shin after the fact was that he said that the tears come naturally if you think of the one you truly care for. From memory the only girl shown Shin cried for would be Noe, and so that makes me facepalm even more about the confession scene.
The way they should've done it is that his confession scene shouldn't have been as strong. Something along the lines of him still feeling a bit for Noe still, but in the end it's Hiromi who he feels more for and he'll try to think only of her in the future. Either that, or they have them not hook up then, but in a timeskip show that they get together in the future. Or even *gasp* a Noe ending, as long as he doesn't do the same proposal jibberish with her. However, essentially proposing to Hiromi was a very big mistake on the animator's part, as doing that requires almost absolute dedication to a girl in the protagonist's heart, and the animators have shown anything but for the last 3 episodes.
I disagree with your reading of the ending here. First off, they didn't skip from 10 to 13 - those two intervening eps were necessary to support the notion of just how difficult this decision was for Shin. I had earlier mentioned that Noe's main role with Shin was as a change agent for Shin. This built up an enormous gratitude for her, which developed into a kind of brotherly affection. What I think this shows, in the end, is just how powerful Shin's love for Hiromi was - he was tested by a love for another girl, one he could easily have settled for and been happy for at least a while - and one for whom he felt a sense of duty as well as affection. I said before that there was a sense of duty in his relationship with her, and of course he's a boy always driven by a great sense of his duty. In many ways Noe was the easier choice - but Shin's love for Hiromi was so powerful that he couldn't decide any other way.
In effect, the depth of the Hiromi relationship was already in place - a (short) lifetime developed in the better part of ten episodes. The last three were all about testing that love. It's unorthodox, I grant you, but this isn't an orthodox series.
But what was the "depth of the Hiromi relationship"? The show makes us want to believe it but it just doesn't come off realistically in my opinion. There is a single childhood memory, and apart from that, Shin says they were "casual friends and classmates". In other words there was a long static relationship between them, until finally you have the whole "moving-in-mother-lie" thing which changed it even worse. Compared to the Noe relationship which prompted a lot of growth and development even in it's short time. These are things that Shin himself admits in episode 12 as well as the final break-up in episode 13. He says that he could draw, as well as dance, because of Noe. Those are very important elements of the story, and what he says there itself is stronger than anything that could be said about the other pairing, and the fact that it makes his heart "waver/ache" contradicts the idea that it was simply brotherly or appreciative. In other words I feel the opposite about which is the "easier" choice. In my mind, the Hiromi relationship represented familiarity with their long static acquaintance while the Noe relationship would have to mean recognizing the value independently of each person in relation to the development or growth of the story (and Shin).
Guardian Enzo
2008-03-30, 12:24
But what was the "depth of the Hiromi relationship"? The show makes us want to believe it but it just doesn't come off realistically in my opinion. There is a single childhood memory, and apart from that, Shin says they were "casual friends and classmates". In other words there was a long static relationship between them, until finally you have the whole "moving-in-mother-lie" thing which changed it even worse. Compared to the Noe relationship which prompted a lot of growth and development even in it's short time. These are things that Shin himself admits in episode 12 as well as the final break-up in episode 13. He says that he could draw, as well as dance, because of Noe. Those are very important elements of the story, and what he says there itself is stronger than anything that could be said about the other pairing, and the fact that it makes his heart "waver/ache" contradicts the idea that it was simply brotherly or appreciative. In other words I feel the opposite about which is the "easier" choice. In my mind, the Hiromi relationship represented familiarity with their long static acquaintance while the Noe relationship would have to mean recognizing the value independently of each person in relation to the development or growth of the story (and Shin).
Noe made him able to draw - but Hiromi was the reason he wanted to in the first place.
In some ways, it's a bit of the old logic vs. emotion argument. Noe was a rational choice, but Hiromi and Shin are so emotionally joined that they complete each other. Really, I think that was pretty much the first ten episodes right there. Shin and Hiromi had gone through their entire lives wanting to be together, and dealing with the things (some self-inflicted) that kept them apart. They needed a catalyst - and that was Noe. It would have been easier and neater if they could have "flown" without her help - without the emotional attachment she inspired in Shin. But they couldn't - she was necessary to their rising above those obstacles and in the process he came to love her as well, in a different way. That was 11-12 and the first half of 13. But in the end, Hiromi was Shin's inspiration and his reason for living, and he couldn't deny that fact.
relentlessflame
2008-03-30, 12:53
The way they should've done it is that his confession scene shouldn't have been as strong. Something along the lines of him still feeling a bit for Noe still, but in the end it's Hiromi who he feels more for and he'll try to think only of her in the future. Either that, or they have them not hook up then, but in a timeskip show that they get together in the future. Or even *gasp* a Noe ending, as long as he doesn't do the same proposal jibberish with her. However, essentially proposing to Hiromi was a very big mistake on the animator's part, as doing that requires almost absolute dedication to a girl in the protagonist's heart, and the animators have shown anything but for the last 3 episodes.Personally, I think you're putting way, way too much weight on this idea that it was meant as some sort of "proposal". It really wasn't at all; Hiromi was being dramatic. It's all in the tone. Shinichirou turned his sadness into a front of determination -- of course he was still hurting inside, but he was pushing it all aside (a.k.a. "taking it like a man") by focusing on the reason he did all this. That's why his "confession" had all of the subtlety of a sledgehammer, and when she started feigning resistance, he just kept making his determination absolutely crystal clear. And of course, her resistance was because of this sudden extreme insistance that was so out of the ordinary. It was sort of as if Shinichirou was saying "I'm making myself absolutely clear to you, and I already know how you feel, so don't mess with me now". That's why it was a hug and not a kiss. What he (and she both) needed was comfort and acceptance to make up for the fact that he (she) was still in a lot of pain due to what he just had to do (and all that she had gone through). But he had to do this precisely to offset that pain; he had to make things clear, as that was what everyone wanted, including Noe.
So, yeah, that was no proposal. That was just determination born out of necessity. He made his decision, he went through that incredibly painful ordeal, and now he had to finish the job by making it clear to the one he loves that it's Over even if he still feels it (Over with a capital O, so as to avoid the mess his parents went through). I felt it fit perfectly with the preceding scene, and was totally connected to it.
About the on-going conversation regarding the depth of Shinichirou and Hiromi's friendship, I can see how this confusion is happening because all that would have happened off-screen and we weren't privy to it. We know that they were close enough that all of Shinichirou and Hiromi's closest friends each thought it was only a matter of time before they started going out. But we don't get to see any of what that looked like. From the point where we pick up the story, Hiromi and Shinichirou have already been estranged for some time, and the only scene they give us to go by is that scene of them being obviously close as children. We also know that the distance Shinichirou was now feeling from Hiromi was dramatic enough for him to really take notice. Also the distance they had at school was also a point the other friends/observers in the school noticed as indicative of some sort of change. We can at least assume that they were in fact more than just "classmates and acquaintances". You do basically have to extrapolate the rest, though, and I guess that's where the difference of opinion is. Personally, my take is that they had been friends since childhood, since I feel that would best explain why Shinichirou is so troubled by their recent estrangement and why all the classmates and friends took notice of it, but of course that's just a theory based on the snippets of evidence they gave us. I do feel that that theory, though, better explains the depth of their relationship and why it's more than just some sort of superficial/juvenile crush, which in turn leads to my acceptance of the way the plot developed. But we all see things differently, I guess.
lilkitteh
2008-03-30, 13:20
I am so extra sad that Noe didn't get to be with him!! I cried D;
:sad:
Well, there's only really a few clues that the writers give the viewers. For example, when Shin is with Noe, Tomoyo says "I thought he liked you!" to Hiromi but that hardly implies that there used to be a deep/inevitable relationship. The part about being "casual friends and classmates" were Shin's own words on the topic so I think it's fairly accurate as well. In fact, I'd agree about what Enzo said about Hiromi being the original "reason" while Noe made him able to do it (draw). I'd weigh the importance of those two things differently, though. He felt like he wanted to "draw" for Hiromi, but it was with Noe that he was actually able to do it. I just think it's odd that Shin and Hiromi are supposed to complete each other even though Shin tells us that two of the most important developments of his, which is being able to draw and performing that dance, are because of Noe. Even though I praised the realism of his admittance of that, it kind of left that hole open and made the final "decision" not as solid as it could have been. And then there's the other odd choice by the writers, which is to make Noe say that she jumped off the tree because she saw Shin's dance and wanted to fly as well. But then we learn that Shin was able to do his dance because of her.
relentlessflame
2008-03-30, 13:45
Well, there's only really a few clues that the writers give the viewers. For example, when Shin is with Noe, Tomoyo says "I thought he liked you!" to Hiromi but that hardly implies that there used to be a deep/inevitable relationship. The part about being "casual friends and classmates" were Shin's own words on the topic so I think it's fairly accurate as well.It wasn't just the things people said point blank that could be taken as clues. There were some more subtle gestures and side-comments from various people (like Aiko, Nobuse, and Tomoyo as well) beyond just the obvious examples. And I'm not sure that I necessarily quite take Shinichirou's statement at complete face value -- if others saw them as being closer than they were, then he probably isn't as "casual" a friend as he thinks. Plus, again, the change in status/situation is troubling him to such an extent -- were they that far removed from casual friends at the beginning of the show? The contrast there was very important to the rest of the plot.
So... I see what you're saying, but I personally felt more was implied beyond just what was said outright. That being said, it's something I will watch for explicitly when I watch the series on DVD.
And then there's the other odd choice by the writers, which is to make Noe say that she jumped off the tree because she saw Shin's dance and wanted to fly as well. But then we learn that Shin was able to do his dance because of her.I'm not sure that I see why you say that's so odd. They essentially inspired each other, which was the entire point of their breaking up scene and why it was both so painful and so laced with symbolism. His passion and determination inspired Noe to try flying herself, but she failed because she wasn't ready. Meanwhile, her earnestness and encouragement is what encouraged him to take that step and be able to dance (and draw). I see the two points as being perfectly complementary, myself...
thundrakkon
2008-03-30, 13:45
I enjoyed the episode but something is bugging me after watching it. Who was Hiromi talking to after Shin left the house to show Noe his book? From the conversation alone, it seems fishy and kinda implied the guy had been there before since he invited himself over. Lastly, the look on Shin's mom face while overhearing their exchange is also of concern. Wished they would of explained that part.
That was Shin'ichiro talking to Hiromi, since he stated that he will be coming over for dinner with her. He was leaving but haven't completely left the estate yet.
Shin'ichiro's mom's concerned face was a concern for Hiromi. She knows what is going on and the pain that Hiromi must be going through. Hence, you notice that the mom goes over to Hiromi's place later to help "wait" with her.
*facepalm*
But him doing that 'proposal' after episodes 11 and 12, and so soon after his 'break-up' with Noe just makes his confession looks like a whole pile of bullshit. Even from the previous two episodes, there had already been signs of him 'wavering' from Hiromi. You just can't go from 'wavering' stance to 'proposal' stance over the course of just one scene. Saying you'll be together forever with a girl implies that during that time, it's only that one girl in your heart. But with Shin wavering just the scene before, that doesn't seem to be the case, and so his words of wanting to be with Hiromi for eternity sounds hollow and empty to me despite how well the VA did his job.
I agree with relentlessflame on his reply to you. To add, Hiromi wanted him to make things clear with Noe before coming back to her. He did just that. His heart wavered, but he made his decision. After that decision, he can and must move on. He must be determined in his confession with Hiromi, or else all that he went through just before would have been seen as hollow and insincere. He made his decision, and he is no longer afforded the right to waver anymore.
Like W-General, I did not like how the ending paired up in KGNE. I loved the story, but the ending left a really bad taste in my mouth. The ending in TT, however, felt like how everything should end, with everything falling into place. A much more satisfying ending.
OK, I am pondering the whole meaning behind Noe's conversation with her brother Jun. She stated that she would not have hurt his feelings if she knew what his true feelings for her were. What does that mean? She would not have gone out with Shin'ichiro or doe that mean she would have accepted in the incestious relationship?
oh I guess now I know why so many people keep hating in these kind of threads.
I really cant see anything good in this episode I am so disappointed how the Noe line ended. No tears, no Shin, no nothing...
... im actually really sad and disappointed now...
I'm not sure that I see why you say that's so odd.
I think it's odd because what I interpreted from that scene is a continuation of Noe's idea that Hiromi is the one in Shin's heart. In other words, in the hospital I think she was trying to say that she thought she saw how Shin could fly (by his performance) because he was now on his "true path" (Hiromi), and she wanted to try and do it herself as well, without Shin. I think she meant it this way because of course Noe and Shin hadn't had much contact and Noe thought that Shin was completely over her for Hiromi. Then to later say that the dance was actually inspired by Noe being there kind of mixes up the message. But that's only if you interpret the scene the way I did.
There were some more subtle gestures and side-comments from various people (like Aiko, Nobuse, and Tomoyo as well) beyond just the obvious examples.
Such as Nobuse's sly comments occasionally when Shin is staring at Hiromi in episode 1 or such. Don't get me wrong, I do notice all of these things but I don't really see how they show any meaning stronger than what Tomoyo's "I thought he liked you!" stance implies. Additionally Nobuse's remarks seem to be partly "inspired" because Shin is living with Hiromi in some instances. As for Aiko, I suppose one of the scenes you could be referring to the scene where she connects the Hiromi situation with her own but honestly I think that she simply used the idea that Shin brought up to communicate her own feelings because in episode 12 she is baffled by Hiromi's "girlfriend" statement and says that "there's many things she doesn't know". I'm not saying that supports my position either since clearly they weren't really acquainted. Anyways I guess there's not much use in going through every detail since obviously we have different perspectives on that, but I also disagree with people who say that this perspective is only because one hasn't looked hard enough or something like that. (not you personally)
Lucipher
2008-03-30, 14:09
oh I guess now I know why so many people keep hating in these kind of threads.
I really cant see anything good in this episode I am so disappointed how the Noe line ended. No tears, no Shin, no nothing...
... im actually really sad and disappointed now...Umm she did cry look at the end *during the song* When the wind blows you can see her tears
Umm she did cry look at the end *during the song* When the wind blows you can see her tears
ah yeah maybe (watched it on youtube). doesnt matter anymore anyway...
no really thanks for that.
BigGimp77
2008-03-30, 14:51
Uggh I really enjoyed the first half of the series.
Ever since the half way point I though the show sputtered and really got silly. I found it hard to root for anyone in the triangle. Noe was insane (ok the girl just jumped off of a tree... WTF that should send up some red flags). Hiromi was over possessive and a moody b*tch most of the time, and Shin was a indecisive flip flopping jerk.
Idk what happened. In the first half I thought Noe was kinda weird but a cool character. Hiromi was trapped in a horrible situation but shows a sweet side. Then at some point they just seemed to change and I began to despise them.
And despite all the silly plot twist they tried to invoke, the series was still predictable till the end.
At the mid way point I woulda gave the series an 8/10. But I seriously would probably only give it a 6.5/10 now. It's kinda hard to really like a series like this if you end up not liking any of the characters. It's a shame they ruled out Ai-chan so early(the only normal nice girl of the bunch).
It's a shame they ruled out Ai-chan so early(the only normal nice girl of the bunch).
I agree with you on this one, really missed Aiko-chan :(
Guardian Enzo
2008-03-30, 15:17
Loved Ai-chan - but alas, her role was as one of the obstacles between Shin and Hiromi. She was never really in the game as far as the central dramatic question was concerned, despite the OP and ED.
Overall I was satisfied with the end, but I wish they could have put in a couple moment with ShinxHiromi, like a kiss or just showing them together.
king12354
2008-03-30, 16:26
This is the first episode I can't give a rating to... I seriously thought Shin wanted to be with Noe and yet he ended up with Hiromi. I'm really confused atm. I suppose the ending was nice but didn't really fit.
OK, I am pondering the whole meaning behind Noe's conversation with her brother Jun. She stated that she would not have hurt his feelings if she knew what his true feelings for her were. What does that mean? She would not have gone out with Shin'ichiro or doe that mean she would have accepted in the incestious relationship?
I agreed with most of the other stuff you said as well as with relentlessflame on that issue.
As to this I think Noe means that she would have handled his feelings properly instead of not noticing them fester and watching him force his relationship with Hiromi.
In some sense she always assumed that everything Jun did for her, which was virtually every action he undertakes since has 0 feelings for Hiromi as confirmed by the final episode, he did as an older brother looking out for her. The reality of course was that he does everything for her because he loves her in the romantic sense and is trying to support her developing feelings for Shin.
Personally I think the most fitting explanation is that she would have just turned him down and then relied on her own strength earlier instead of waiting until the very end to make her own friends and move away from her brother's protection.
This is the first episode I can't give a rating to... I seriously thought Shin wanted to be with Noe and yet he ended up with Hiromi. I'm really confused atm. I suppose the ending was nice but didn't really fit.
I can understand why you're confused since his feelings did "waver" in some sense as his father's had all that time ago, but I'd just let it sit for a while and then possibly rewatch it. He had resolved in episode 10-11 to end up with Hiromi romantically, but he had feelings that he had developed for Noe that were hard for him to resolve. Noe means a lot to Shin in terms of him being able to fly and really be the best that he can be as well as making his heart race in some sense, but he has to close that off so he can be with Hiromi since that's who he chose to love since he wanted to be the one to brush away Hiromi's tears.
Either way it's complex, it's messy, and it does tear Shin up to have to resolve the whole thing, but this episode is basically what had to be coming since he did have feelings for both of the girls but could only preserve his feelings for one of them.
Irenicus
2008-03-30, 17:09
All's well that ends well. :)
Thanks for the super-fast subbing effort. My horrible cliffhanger is rendered far less painful as a result of your quick work.
But yes, they could at least show a scene of Shin and Hiromi interacting at the end at least once, geez. I know the ending made clear that Noe is the focus of the show's thematic side, but dang. At least let them lock eyes for a second in a class or during a match or something.
P.S. I'll never understand the Ai fanboys and their endless, and to me rather quite irrational, complaints. Unlike the competition between Noe and Hiromi (of which some viewers dispute the value of the "prize" :heh:), it's utterly obvious what her role is from start to end. And there really isn't anything about her that comes out to me as truly interesting. If anything, some others who are opposing the "childhood friend victory" *should* appreciate her moving on from Shin. ;)
I would have liked it if Aiko had remained in the "mentor" role but essentially, after she confessed, she had no relevance to the story except brief appearances with Miyokichi. I thought that whole part of the story could have been done a bit better. Kind of a waste of a character.
At the mid way point I woulda gave the series an 8/10. But I seriously would probably only give it a 6.5/10 now. It's kinda hard to really like a series like this if you end up not liking any of the characters. It's a shame they ruled out Ai-chan so early(the only normal nice girl of the bunch).
At least they treated Aiko well, they didn't make her settle(it would have been a mistake if she had settled and eventually things with Nobuse would not have gone as well as they did). They had Aiko hang with her feelings till the very end, in episode 12 all came in a full circle. When Hiromi told her that she was Shin's Girlfriend and she realized she didn't know everything. Aiko could finally let go of Shin because she knew that the one Shin truelly loved was Hiromi and she couldn't win against that.
They made Nobuse and Aiko start again as friend and we saw at the end of episode 13 that she finally looked at Nobuse the same way she looked at Shin. That is why since the beginning I knew she had feelings for shin and not Nobuse and I resisted believing that them going out was a mutual thing. Now she actually showed feelings for Nobuse and if they are not a couple yet by the end of episode 13, the time for them to become a couple is not very far and I am pretty sure Aiko will knit Nobuse a sweater during her last winter as a highschool student.
Aiko seem to be the girl that develop feelings for guys that help her, Nobuse displaced Shin as the part timer in her store thus also he became her man :heh:
Poor Noe, left with the chicken....
The thing I really liked was how hard it was for Shinicihro to decide. In so many series the lead guy goes "I'm not going out with girl A, I'm going out with girl B instead." And that's that.
Here, however, you got the feeling that it was really quite painful for him to decide between Hiromi and Noe. It's when your heart wavers, and it was heartbreaking for him.
The other thing i liked was how it was hinted that Noe had got her tears back, rather than made blatantly obvious.
Nobuse wins the award for Best Sidekick Character, surely.
At least they treated Aiko well, they didn't make her settle(it would have been a mistake if she had settled and eventually things with Nobuse would not have gone as well as they did). They had Aiko hang with her feelings till the very end, in episode 12 all came in a full circle. When Hiromi told her that she was Shin's Girlfriend and she realized she didn't know everything. Aiko could finally let go of Shin because she knew that the one Shin truelly loved was Hiromi and she couldn't win against that.
They made Nobuse and Aiko start again as friend and we saw at the end of episode 13 that she finally looked at Nobuse the same way she looked at Shin. That is why since the beginning I knew she had feelings for shin and not Nobuse and I resisted believing that them going out was a mutual thing. Now she actually showed feelings for Nobuse and if they are not a couple yet by the end of episode 13, the time for them to become a couple is not very far and I am pretty sure Aiko will knit Nobuse a sweater during her last winter as a highschool student.
Aiko seem to be the girl that develop feelings for guys that help her, Nobuse displaced Shin as the part timer in her store thus also he became her man :heh:
Yeah I definitely agree with this. Once the writers made the decision to have Aiko jump into the fray, getting her out and reconciled with Nobuse was a far better choice than having her drag things out, especially since Shin never had any feelings for her. All of his feelings were for Hiromi and Noe, which I think Aiko understands by the end as she says her lines in episode 12 after Hiromi introduces herself as the girlfriend.
While I do tend to lean towards the group that would have liked Aiko to stay on the side and explain Hiromi's (and possibly Noe's) behaviors like she did before she jumped in on Shin's first kiss, her handling after the kiss was the best we could have expected for her. She wasn't the one who caused Shin's feelings to Hiromi to waver; that role was Noe's to fill.
Weisheit
2008-03-30, 19:54
any thoughts about why hiromi said "no" to Shin when he 1st proposed?
i'm still very confused about that responses, no idea at ALL
This one was weird.. no tears, no kiss, no nothing. I wasn't too bad so I'm not going to say that the ending ruined this anime. However there was no conclusion, no one even knows if shin and hiromi went out or not, they could have broken up the next day or maybe settled their feelings or something. In the end, this anime series was alright at best, for me it started off with a 8.5 / 10, now it drops to a 6.5, So rounded up to a 7, it was somewhat nice, nothing that stood out or amazed me, it was a bit complex and hard to understand.
@be0wulf
That's no good reason to take it out on Hiromi. Assuming her situation's identical to Hiromi's, there's even less reason to take it out on Hiromi, as Hiromi doesn't exactly hate Noe.
Shin's mom didn't know anything about Hiromi and Noe and the whole love triangle during the time she was acting cruel. She seems to hate Hiromi because of Hiromi's mother who must have been involved in some love triangle with Shin's father. She despised Hiromi because Hiromi reminded her of her mother at every turn, especially how she seemed to get her husband and son on her side, which must have brought back painful memories.
Also, the two situations don't obviously mirror each other to every detail, of course. There is less animosity in the "current generation"
-no reason for Shin's mom to take out her hatred on Hiromi, as it's inconsistent with Hiromi's attitude towards Noe
Hatred is of course irrational. Hiromi brought up bad memories to Shin's mother and so she hated Hiromi's presence as well. She didn't know anything about Hiromi's own problems until episode 13, when she had already stopped acting cruel.
littlekitty
2008-03-30, 20:15
Eh, all's well that ends well, I suppose.
It doesn't surprise me that Shin picked Hiromi in the end, but I thought there was a good possibility for him to switch back to Noe. Granted, if Shin had ditched Hiromi for Noe, he might have come off like a certain Makoto we all love to hate...and maybe we would have seen a Nice Boat ending. XD
Overall...great series. Noe got her tears back...Shin cried...Hiromi cried...god that song scene between Shin and Noe was heartbreaking!
In the end, this is one show I am going to miss! Now I have to figure out how to fill the big, empty hole in my saturday that TT and Kimikiss have left. =(
cherrysh
2008-03-30, 20:28
I like the ending. At first I really want Hiromi to end up with Jun but then what he said to her was really mean. "Kore pochi mo" ahaha Oh well...Man...
But what touched me the most was when Noe saw the stones Shin used to confess to her then she cried. I love her tears. I think she matured through the process.
I hope Noe and Jun will have their own happy ending, (OVA hopefully =P)
relentlessflame
2008-03-30, 20:53
any thoughts about why hiromi said "no" to Shin when he 1st proposed?
i'm still very confused about that responses, no idea at ALLSort of tied to what I said earlier about this scene, I think it's because of his approach. In terms of a "confession", it was extremely on the blunt side. She's got her pride, and although she loves him, she doesn't want to be seen as desperate/easy either. Normally, one might have possibly started with some context, you know, perhaps said that he loved her... After all this time, I'm sure she wouldn't have minded the proposal to be a bit more, um... romantic... It's sort of tied with what she said after he said that they'd be together forever, which was more or less (summary) "how can you say that, when I haven't even said yes?" Basically, I think she was hoping to be wooed a bit, but he was taking advantage of the fact that he already knew how she felt anyway, and that her saying yes was a foregone conclusion. So it was more banter than anything else. At least, that's the way I saw it, for what it's worth.
mikesince83
2008-03-30, 20:54
I'm surprised to see so many low ratings making the thread.
I'd give this series high marks simply for keeping me guessing right up to the end. More often then not, it's clear right from the beginning who the male lead will end up with, which takes a lot of the suspense out of things.
I liked Hiromi, so this worked out well, but I would have been satisfied if he chose Noe. She certainly served a special role in his life, and I'm sure it was difficult for him to let go. As an afterthought, I almost wish she didn't end up crying. Titling the show True Tears and including a girl that can't cry has the viewer waiting from episode one for her to cry, so how much more significant is it if she never does?
As far as Aiko goes, she was one of my initial favorites, but there was really no hope for her from the outset. It was nice she managed to work a little action in on the side to shake up the scene.
Liddo-kun
2008-03-30, 20:57
I'd give this series high marks simply for keeping me guessing right up to the end. More often then not, it's clear right from the beginning who the male lead will end up with, which takes a lot of the suspense out of things.
Agreed on this, True Tears is the first slice-of-life anime I've seen where I was practically kept guessing till the last episode.
Unlike in...*cough...other similar series out there.
BookOfMages
2008-03-30, 21:03
I didn't like the ending that much, in the end Noe got the short end of the stick.
However I knew that Shin'ichiro would end up with Hiromi [Mostly since almost all aka 95% of my favorite characters/lovers keep getting the short end of the stick...:mad:]
Well you know from episode one it was obvious, and maybe its just me, but I had a feeling if Shin chose Noe, that Hiromi might have pulled a Nice Boat on True Tears, despite the fact she said she would've accepted it and that's really something I would've hate since I actually like Hiromi. Another thing that might have happened to Hiromi if Shin chose Noe was that she might end up like his mother. :(
When you think about it, first love never really works out, and out of the two, I think Isurugi Noe really was like 100% better at getting over it then Hiromi, at least now Noe has a chance to get together with someone who actually deserves her, but still I was thinking of Noe's happiness, I would've been so happy for her, but you know she would've noticed Hiromi's sadness and she'd get sad, which would've made me like so much more upset, so I guess all an all Shinichiro getting together with Hiromi was for the best.
Ganbatte Noe-chan, YOU GO FIND YOURSELF A HAPPY FUTURE! ;____; <33333 [With me. ;)]
DragoonKain3
2008-03-30, 21:23
Guardian Enzo's comment about Shin's feelings towards Noe being sort of brotherly affection struck a chord for me, as it did seem a more logical interpretation of the scenes beforehand. Everything would fit into place
Thing is though, the translation I saw used the word 'waver', which heavily implies that it involves something romantic. Relentless uses the translation 'ache', which fits the bill quite nicely as then it doesn't necessarily mean its romantic. But going for a third opinion (Omni's blog), they use the work 'quake', which leans more towards the former rather than the latter. So even if this is the interpretation that makes most sense for me, I don't know how much of it is rooted in canon facts.
As for the other set of interpretations, from what I have said before what the animators should've done, I knew what they were trying to say (preaching to the choir here guys ;p). That despite Noe still has a small piece of his heart, Shin still chose Hiromi in the end.
Telling the girl in question that you'll stay with her forever, however, does not imply at all at the above, well at least where I come from. While not exactly a 'proposal' (I only used that term since it's much shorter), those words to me still basically says 'I'll stay with you forever because you're the only girl for me', and not 'I'll stay with you forever even when I still have feelings for another girl', with the italicized parts being the implied words.
Even here in north america, you don't spew such cheesy lines unless you have only that girl in your eyes (to my knowledge, I haven't EVER heard it used as the latter implication). How much more so for Japan, where I hear that even from a very young age one is taught to not really express emotion in words? (I even have heard of long time married couples being able to count the number of times they said 'I love you' in one hand, but I digress :heh:)
So yeah, wrong choice of words from the animators part (I'm ruling out a translation error as I trust the group). Just like in these forums, sometimes what you have wrote down isn't exactly what you meant to say, and I felt that's exactly what happened. The animators was most probably trying to imply that Shin was going to always stick to Hiromi no matter what happens, even when his heart 'wavers', but the methods on how they delivered that was ambigous at best, contradictory at the worst.
And for such an important scene (if not THE most important scene of the entire series), that's really inexcusable IMO.
I'd give this series high marks simply for keeping me guessing right up to the end. More often then not, it's clear right from the beginning who the male lead will end up with, which takes a lot of the suspense out of things.
Oh, I give the highest marks for TT for making us guessing right till the end. That however, is completely different from the reason why I would give this episode a low rating, where I thought they really screwed up the final scene. That is, as an overall series I rate TT highly, but episode 13 I would rate dismally.
I believe it is more likely that Shin's"waver/ache/quake" is romantic rather than brotherly simply because the following scene where he sings loudly to convince himself that Hiromi is in his heart and let Noe leave would make very little sense if he had no romantic feelings for her.
There seems to still be confusion on why Shin's mom was dismissive of Hiromi early on but changed later.
So I'm going to just lay out again what I think happened there. (going to not use pronouns as much because it gets confusing...)
Originally Shin's mom thought that Hiromi represented Hiromi's mom based on the fact that Hiromi looks exactly like her mom according to Shin's mom. This means that her hate for Hiromi is based on the fact that Shin's father didn't really do things very properly in breaking off his relationship with Hiromi's mother before returning to Shin's mom. Consequently, Shin's mom takes out her old grudges against Hiromi's mom on Hiromi...
Later on, after the self-destructive incidents and whatnot with Jun, Shin's mom realizes that Hiromi actually represents her role in the drama (maybe because Shin's mom probably did some similar things) and not Hiromi's mom as she originally thought. This in my mind is the explanation of the 180-degree turn in her treatment towards Hiromi. Shin's mom goes from associating Hiromi with her mom to associating Hiromi with herself.
I have to think that this is the most logical explanation to me and it does fit all of Shin's mother's statements early on to the effect of "You (Hiromi) look like your mother" in terms of beauty in a cold way. Later on after she's had the epiphany that Hiromi's self-destructive behavior is more reminiscient of her own actions in the past, she switches to supporting Hiromi because she now sees herself through Hiromi. This is supported by her last statement to Hiromi as she waits for Shin which is about how hard the waiting is since Shin's mom probably experienced this in the past (but Shin's dad may have screwed up... by his reaction to Shin's question in 13 and from Shin's mom disliking Hiromi early on indicating an unclean break).
Either way, the best thing about this whole subplot is that all of the hints are there in True Tears. Shin's mom comments early on about Hiromi looking like her mother and combined with the turnaround after the incidents along with the final episode dialogue; that part of the plot all falls into place.
AznSoulBoy
2008-03-30, 22:02
Well, I have nothing to say anymore. I would like to see a OVA or a extra episode. I want to see HiromixShin when they spend time together and having fun. Until now, it seems like awkward each time they talk together and being together. Of course, I would like to see what will happen to Noe and Jun.
Anyway, it is the best show this winter imo. It's been a long time that i havent watched such a good anime. The animation was nice, the music was superb, and the story was very good.
I have fun to guess what will happen and discuss with u guys. Really, I was really excited.
Hopefully, it will have more romance shows like that :)
I'm surprised to see so many low ratings making the thread. ~
A full 76.63% of the voters gave this episode an 8 or above. 85.8% if you want to include the 7-voters. If anything... it is only a vocal minority that is disparaging about this episode.
Cheers.
Liddo-kun
2008-03-30, 22:18
Well you know from episode one it was obvious, and maybe its just me, but I had a feeling if Shin chose Noe, that Hiromi might have pulled a Nice Boat on True Tears, despite the fact she said she would've accepted it and that's really something I would've hate since I actually like Hiromi. Another thing that might have happened to Hiromi if Shin chose Noe was that she might end up like his mother. :(
When you think about it, first love never really works out, and out of the two, I think Isurugi Noe really was like 100% better at getting over it then Hiromi, at least now Noe has a chance to get together with someone who actually deserves her, but still I was thinking of Noe's happiness, I would've been so happy for her, but you know she would've noticed Hiromi's sadness and she'd get sad, which would've made me like so much more upset, so I guess all an all Shinichiro getting together with Hiromi was for the best.
Ganbatte Noe-chan, YOU GO FIND YOURSELF A HAPPY FUTURE! ;____; <33333 [With me. ;)]
Well, I think Hiromi won't pull a nice boat on Shin if he chooses Noe...
On exactly 9:15 of episode 13, Hiromi said that she is "a sportsman" meaning she would accept whatever decision Shin makes. First love worked here btw. And I agree with your last sentence, I hope Noe finds the person who will care for her and make her happy. ;)
http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/files/d71y7xtnkdo1jcjitnsm_thumb.png (http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/viewer.php?file=d71y7xtnkdo1jcjitnsm.png)
Almost nothing left to say, but I would like to take this chance to mention that it's beautiful when the animation changes into something like from Shin's picture book whenever there's a strong/dramatic moment. Gives a unique feel to the scene. :)
http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/files/q54wx8cr8v7wa5d151js_thumb.png (http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/viewer.php?file=q54wx8cr8v7wa5d151js.png)
http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/files/6z1ehutrpmtsa2tnc5wj_thumb.png (http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/viewer.php?file=6z1ehutrpmtsa2tnc5wj.png)
TinyRedLeaf
2008-03-30, 22:42
Episode 10 should have been the ending! :D In comparison, Episode 13 lacked the "natural high" that Episode 10 provided. Coming immediately after the surprising turn of events in Episode 12, the concluding episode of True Tears felt somewhat anti-climatic.
All said and done, True Tears has been a nice ride, even though it didn't provoke the strong emotions I had after watching KGNE. But that is possibly because I'm older now. Guardian Enzo, Theowne and others have covered most of the points I would have discussed, so there is no need for me to go over the same ground.
However, I am curious about the comments about the supposed lack of "romance" or "relationship" between Shin and Hiromi. By that, I am not saying that others are wrong for feeling that way. I am saying though that the depth of Shin's and Hiromi's relationship felt very apparent to me. So, I wonder if cultural misunderstandings are in play?
Mostly I think the outcome of True Tears is indicative of how Japanese culture views romantic relationships. It is a rare occasion when a main male character of a romance makes the risky but potentially more fulfilling choice of who to be with. I thought this series was going to but I was disappointed. It seems KgNE will remain my top romance anime still.
I chuckled out loud at the above opinion. It's a superb example of cultural prejudice, plain and simple. But it does highlight my main point - perhaps foreign audiences are missing the cues because of cultural differences in the way they view romance?
For the record, childhood friendships very seldom turn into real relationships in my part of the world. No, I'm not in Japan, but I am fairly certain that I can't think of a single personal example of childhood friends who became couples. Even if infatuations did exist, most people grew out of it eventually. Familiarity breeds contempt, so they say. It's hard to become romantically involved with someone you already know them inside-out. Because being in love means being blind to your significant other's faults. :p
That said, it's incredibly romantic to fantasise about finding the "love-of-your-life" while you're still a child. It's even more sappily romantic to imagine how such relationships could last through adolescence and into adulthood. To me, that is the point of seeing such relationships in romance dramas. The very idea of childhood love is, in itself, very romantic. After all, we're watching fiction, and as such, what transpires on screen doesn't have to be realistic.
So, while it's true to a certain extent that we didn't get much insight on Shin's and Hiromi's developing relationship, I would suggest that, by default, they had feelings for each other that didn't need much elaboration. The audience (well, most of the audience) would automatically "know" what to expect between Shin and Hiromi. It was "obvious" that they had feelings for each other. They only needed to confess those feelings openly.
Finally, regarding Noe. She was, quite simply, Shin's muse. A good friend and an inspiration that he grew to love. If Hiromi wasn't already in the picture, Shin and Noe would probably make a great couple. However, as Guardian Enzo wrote, I think it's clear that Noe is meant all along to be the catalyst who drives Shin towards his actual goals in life and in the process, she grows up as well.
I disagree that Noe was "strong" at the beginning of the show. Repressing your sadness is not real strength - it's running away. By opening herself to others for the first time, Noe realised that she did not understand people as well as she thought she did. She got hurt in the process, but that, to me, is a necessary price to pay. As such, I like the way the writers concluded her story in this episode.
But I still feel that Episode 10 would have been a better ending. :p
Guardian Enzo
2008-03-30, 22:42
When you think about it, first love never really works out, and out of the two, I think Isurugi Noe really was like 100% better at getting over it then Hiromi, at least now Noe has a chance to get together with someone who actually deserves her, but still I was thinking of Noe's happiness, I would've been so happy for her, but you know she would've noticed Hiromi's sadness and she'd get sad, which would've made me like so much more upset, so I guess all an all Shinichiro getting together with Hiromi was for the best.
Ganbatte Noe-chan, YOU GO FIND YOURSELF A HAPPY FUTURE! ;____; <33333 [With me. ;)]
I think Noe is absolutely in a 100% better position to get over it than Hiromi. For her, Shin'ichiro is a winter crush, albeit her very first real love. For Hiromi (and Shin) it's a lifelong connection that runs deeper than anything else in her life. In the end they sort of both got what they needed - Hiromi got her knight in shining (mugiha) armor, and Noe got her tears back by finally allowing herself to emotionally connect to another person. Painful for her, no doubt, but life and love usually are.
I think a few words should be said for just how beautifully animated the series and especially the final ep were. Obviously the character designs and facial expressions were superb, but the judicious use of stillness (as during the closing credits) as well as the gorgeous oil-on-canvas stills used a few times in 13 were also perfect. Even such small details as the tiny figures moving by in the distance as Noe stared at the "graveyard" during the closing credits were handled with great expertise.
Guardian Enzo
2008-03-30, 22:50
Episode 10 should have been the ending! :D In comparison, Episode 13 lacked the "natural high" that Episode 10 provided. Coming immediately after the surprising turn of events in Episode 12, the concluding episode of True Tears felt somewhat anti-climatic.
All said and done, True Tears has been a nice ride, even though it didn't provoke the strong emotions I had after watching KGNE. But that is possibly because I'm older now. Guardian Enzo, Theowne and others have covered most of the points I would have discussed, so there is no need for me to go over the same ground.
However, I am curious about the comments about the supposed lack of "romance" or "relationship" between Shin and Hiromi. By that, I am not saying that others are wrong for feeling that way. I am saying though that the depth of Shin's and Hiromi's relationship felt very apparent to me. So, I wonder if cultural misunderstandings are in play?
I chuckled out loud at the above opinion. It's a superb example of cultural prejudice, plain and simple. But it does highlight my main point - perhaps foreign audiences are missing the cues because of cultural differences in the way they view romance?
For the record, childhood friendships very seldom turn into real relationships in my part of the world. No, I'm not in Japan, but I am fairly certain that I can't think of a single personal example of childhood friends who became couples. Even if infatuations did exist, most people grew out of it eventually. Familiarity breeds contempt, so they say. It's hard to become romantically involved with someone you already know them inside-out. Because being in love means being blind to your significant other's faults. :p
That said, it's incredibly romantic to fantasise about finding the "love-of-your-life" while you're still a child. It's even more sappily romantic to imagine how such relationships could last through adolescence and into adulthood. To me, that is the point of seeing such relationships in romance dramas. The very idea of childhood love is, in itself, very romantic. After all, we're watching fiction, and as such, what transpires on screen doesn't have to be realistic.
So, while it's true to a certain extent that we didn't get much insight on Shin's and Hiromi's developing relationship, I would suggest that, by default, they had feelings for each other that didn't need much elaboration. The audience (well, most of the audience) would automatically "know" what to expect between Shin and Hiromi. It was "obvious" that they had feelings for each other. They only needed to confess those feelings openly.
Finally, regarding Noe. She was, quite simply, Shin's muse. A good friend and an inspiration that he grew to love. If Hiromi wasn't already in the picture, Shin and Noe would probably make a great couple. However, as Guardian Enzo wrote, I think it's clear that Noe is meant all along to be the catalyst who drives Shin towards his actual goals in life and in the process, she grows up as well.
I disagree that Noe was "strong" at the beginning of the show. Repressing your sadness is not real strength - it's running away. By opening herself to others for the first time, Noe realised that she did not understand people as well as she thought she did. She got hurt in the process, but that, to me, is a necessary price to pay. As such, I like the way the writers concluded her story in this episode.
But I still feel that Episode 10 would have been a better ending. :p
A superbly written post, thanks for sharing it. I agree with almost all of it, except for the part about 10 being the better ending. While that one Shin x Hiromi scene in 10 was probably the most emotionally charged in the series, 13 to me was much-needed - a wistful settling of affairs, and a bittersweet look at the emotions that were in play during the series.
germanturkey
2008-03-30, 23:12
so watching the properly translated version gives me much more insight into the emotions going on and reinforces my theory that Hiromi loved Shin much more than she showed. plus i could finally see the parallel that happened between past and present.
i was right about Hiromi loving Shin enough to let him choose and be happy with the decision he makes, even if it isn't her.
and i finally understand that Shin's father was put in the same situation where he had to choose between Hiromi's mother and Shin's mom. Hence the waiting is hard part. finally understanding what happens makes it that much better in my book.
SkoolRumble4Ya
2008-03-30, 23:30
It was good while it lasted. This episode basically wraps everything up. I feel sorry for Noe because she is the only one who is not happy oh well in a love show at least one person will get hurt.
Master Chibi
2008-03-30, 23:35
Wow, what a retarded way to end this show.
They spent so much effort on developing Noe, and this is what we end up with? I mean to hell with cheering for a girl I want because Shin is an idiot to begin with.
How am I supposed to accept that Shin actually cares about Hiromi AT ALL when the only real emotion's he's ever shown in the series was towards Noe? He's shown an entire cascade of emotions to the girl, but when he's around Hiromi it's all monotone script reading over dramatic nonsense.
It doesn't even make any sense, the direction of this show is so skewed and several parts of the show horribly forced too.
Ugh, just ugh.
w00tness
2008-03-30, 23:40
so watching the properly translated version gives me much more insight into the emotions going on and reinforces my theory that Hiromi loved Shin much more than she showed. plus i could finally see the parallel that happened between past and present.
i was right about Hiromi loving Shin enough to let him choose and be happy with the decision he makes, even if it isn't her.
and i finally understand that Shin's father was put in the same situation where he had to choose between Hiromi's mother and Shin's mom. Hence the waiting is hard part. finally understanding what happens makes it that much better in my book.
The waiting is the hard part for the women. Im slightly disgusted that the impression I got from Shin was that he's saying "hey, im suffering too, I cant choose, and when I finally make my choice, its a choice thats breaking my heart!" because realistically, he cant lose. He is the prize for the winner, and no matter how you look at it, the girl he rejects suffers more than he. To be fair, I cant say what I would do in his place, because ive never been in a situation akin to his, but STILL, it leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
As for Shins dad, we know for sure his heart wavered, but we do not know when, nor the circumstances. If his heart wavered after his marriage (which I believe to be the case), then chances are his feelings were not returned (or even not known by Hiromi's mom). If that were the case, then you cant really say Shin and Shins dad's situations are similar.
cents.
Reckoner
2008-03-31, 00:06
First may I just say, wow. They ended it better than I ever thought they could. I've always liked Noe better than Hiromi, but I wasn't necessarily determining the show's rating based on my own personal desires. Unfortunately I was fooled by the writers into thinking that Noe was going to win (I bet my left arm :upset:), but at least I got the fact that he did have romantic feelings for Noe correct.
Although they tried to give some closure to the parent's relationship, I still found the mother's actions inconsistent with what we were presented with earlier on in this series. She changed way too quickly! Only real large flaw that I was able to deduce from the series, but I'll let it slide.
Random episode comments...
The most touching scene in this series was absolutely, positively Shinchiro's monologue.
I've grown to like Jun a lot.
Noe made me sad this episode.
I punched Hiromi on my screen.
So... I gave this episode a 9/10 because of Hiromi's split.. No, but I just was bugged by some unknown factor while watching the series.
I'll save my giant walls of text for the other thread. Peace.
as i am so late to the game and not a regular commenter i just wanted to add that i also was a fan of noe. hiromi seemed to be lacking in any redeeming qualities, other than her looks, to make me want to see her "get the guy". i found her boring and the "safe" and expected way to go.
all in all, even though my favortie didnt win out in the end the characters were fully developed and realistic. they had flaws and were not above showing their worst in front of others. i dont usually like the drama romance genre for how it makes most women out to be emotional basketcases. but i think they handled it in such a believable way that i was able to look past it.
so i give it a 9/10. so much better than that train wreck that was kimikiss.
Ascaloth
2008-03-31, 00:16
I think I've just had a revelation as to why I have been so ambivalent about True Tears.
As most of us would know, there is a genre within the entirety of the anime medium that is classified as "harem". Although the term had often been used to misrepresent certain romance shows in recent times, the most specific definition of its premise is that it's a guy surrounded by a group of girls all chasing him, with the guy unable to choose between all of them until the very end. Apart from the obvious fanservice, the premises in harem anime is often portrayed as a paradise on earth for the spineless male lead.
I think now that True Tears, in a sense, was trying to be ambitious; it was a shot at being an anti-harem. Put simply, it's a series that tries to portray the message that having several ladies pursuing you is not all that it's cracked up to be, that in reality it IS going to hurt you quite badly emotionally. That it will result in grief for all parties, without resorting to anime stereotypes like yandere or Nice Boat. That it will result in grief for yourself, even.
However, I believe that this is where Sorrow-K's observation becomes most apt; True Tears is doing everything right, except the characters. The failure is that Aiko didn't even look like being part of the scene despite supposedly being the third wheel around which things are supposed to revolve. The bigger failure is that Hiromi's angst drowned out the underlying motivations behind that angst. The even bigger failure is that Noe's eccentric manner of dealing with her own angst is also drowning out her underlying motivations underneath the angst.
The biggest failure is that Shinichiro's angst over being torn between the two loves of his life is just not obvious enough. All these failures are why True Tear's theme just flew right over the heads of the significant minority who didn't like this series, and even more so the shippers who are too focused on their favourite girl. To put it simply, True Tears was too subtle for its own good.
It was a nice try, but it needs some real polishing. I think I may just have figured out the axis around the Triple Critique that I'm going to write for True Tears.
mikesince83
2008-03-31, 00:29
A full 76.63% of the voters gave this episode an 8 or above. 85.8% if you want to include the 7-voters. If anything... it is only a vocal minority that is disparaging about this episode.
Ah, I should have clarified. I was referring to posts like this one (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1498702&postcount=186) that were reviewing the series as a whole. But you're right, even in that case it's probably just a vocal minority.
Episode 10 should have been the ending! :D In comparison, Episode 13 lacked the "natural high" that Episode 10 provided.
Episode 10 was great, and comparing the two I can see how you could come to that conclusion. I do think the latter episodes were necessary, though more so for Hiromi than Noe. She had yet to work through some of personal conflict surrounding her past. Shin's actions at the end of 10 also served as much needed justification/foreshadowing for his final decision.
How am I supposed to accept that Shin actually cares about Hiromi AT ALL when the only real emotion's he's ever shown in the series was towards Noe? He's shown an entire cascade of emotions to the girl, but when he's around Hiromi it's all monotone script reading over dramatic nonsense.
Maybe you just missed it?
Hearing Hiromi say she likes No.4.
Protecting Hiromi from his mother.
After seeing Hiromi at the bike accident.
Chasing the moving van.
That's just off the top of my head...
The bigger failure is that Hiromi's angst drowned out the underlying motivations behind that angst. The even bigger failure is that Noe's eccentric manner of dealing with her own angst is also drowning out her underlying motivations underneath the angst.The biggest failure is that Shinichiro's angst over being torn between the two loves of his life is just not obvious enough.
Those couple sentences had my head spinning. So much angst! I do agree that Noe was not developed enough for us to really understand the complexity of what she was dealing with emotionally. I do however respectfully disagree with your thoughts on Aiko and Hiromi. Aiko was never intended to play a major roll, or for that matter have anything revolve around her. With only 13 episodes theres no way they could really delve into her character as with Hiromi and Noe. She served as a momentary distraction and she served it well. As for Hiromi, it was clear to me that the majority of her interaction (angst) with Shin was being driven by her attempts to deal with her and her mothers past.
I thought this was a wonderful series. Beautifully produced, emotionally gripping. I don't know that I've ever had my heart twisted in such a knot for the entire duration of an episode as I did this final one.
I'm feeling a little emotionally bruised right now because I liked Noe so much more than Hiromi. But, I'm very satisfied with the ending. The most important thing for Noe was to find her tears and I loved the way they showed that.
I also felt like Shin was more lively around Noe and just didn't see any magic with Hiromi. But, I think that might be the difference between a calm, quiet, steadfast love, and the flighty exhilaration of being around someone who was more of a "sparkplug" like Noe.
And that line... "I'm in love with Hiromi. But when I see you... my heart wavers." Gawd... the agony. :(
@ Ascaloth
I'm not sure what to say, but I think your position makes True Tears seem a bit too ambitious.
The point I took from it was that they wanted to set up a believable triangle by having a guy who's been interested in a girl for a long time have another girl help him be all that he can be.
In some sense though they wanted the main portion of the angst and drama to occur after he had already resolved to end up with one girl but realized that he actually had feelings as well for the other one. Subsequently, they wanted us to really realize how heartbreaking it can be when the main character truly has feelings for two girls but chooses to remain loyal to the first.
I don't see how Aiko is a failure; they had either of two choices, 1- make her the elder stateman who elucidates upon Hiromi's actions as she does at first, or 2- jump in with a bang (i.e. the first kiss) and then leave quickly as the main character has no feelings for her. Obviously they went with the latter, but either way the execution was there and she fulfilled her role well; regardless I don't think an argument can be made that she would have been more compelling under the first choice.
Honestly, both Hiromi and Noe were created to be extremely emotional characters in the dimensions that they were shown, and in that sense they're unrealistic and hard to identify with, but I'd argue that the kind of drama and angst they were setting up required the girls to become extremely troubled by the end which is why they had issues with Shin's inability to resolve the situation.
Thus, I'd probably argue that they had to create unrealistic representations of Hiromi and Noe but detail them well enough that we'd understand what they were going through, which is probably why I understand your gripe in some sense. It's just that I think it was intended and done as well as possible.
I sort of see where you're going with the last point on Shin, but I think the problem was that although he intended to resolve everything around 10; he was unable to until he acknowledged his feelings for Noe and then figured out what to do about it. In that sense I do agree with you that it should have been more obvious earlier on that he was developing feelings for Noe and that it was causing him to be unable to resolve the situation earlier.
Finally, to wrap all of the above together, I think that the point of the show was to maximize our understanding of how hard it is for a guy in this position to choose between two girls that he has real feelings for. Hiromi and Noe being somewhat hard to identify with by the end is a part of this since the drama had to be maximized around the main character's wavering between the two.
Maybe I'm taking too narrow a view on what True Tears set out to do which is why I don't really see where you're going assuming that premise.
@ Reckoner
I really don't understand why you see the mother's actions as being inconsistent unless you're unwilling to accept the assumption that she disliked Hiromi early on for representing Hiromi's mom, but she does the 180 over the realization that the reckless behavior is more reminiscient of herself.
I do agree that it was a sudden change, but you also saw how open Shin reacted at that moment with Hiromi after the crash. I'd like to think we can give Shin's mom the same benefit of the doubt that we gave to Shin at that moment just forgetting everything and embracing Hiromi. The same thing probably went through her mind that somehow Hiromi is channeling her and not her mother...
Master Chibi
2008-03-31, 01:01
Maybe you just missed it?
Hearing Hiromi say she likes No.4.
Protecting Hiromi from his mother.
After seeing Hiromi at the bike accident.
Chasing the moving van.
That's just off the top of my head...
I said forced, didn't I?
Ascaloth
2008-03-31, 01:16
Those couple sentences had my head spinning. So much angst! I do agree that Noe was not developed enough for us to really understand the complexity of what she was dealing with emotionally. I do however respectfully disagree with your thoughts on Aiko and Hiromi. Aiko was never intended to play a major roll, or for that matter have anything revolve around her. With only 13 episodes theres no way they could really delve into her character as with Hiromi and Noe. She served as a momentary distraction and she served it well. As for Hiromi, it was clear to me that the majority of her interaction (angst) with Shin was being driven by her attempts to deal with her and her mothers past.
@ Ascaloth
I'm not sure what to say, but I think your position makes True Tears seem a bit too ambitious.
The point I took from it was that they wanted to set up a believable triangle by having a guy who's been interested in a girl for a long time have another girl help him be all that he can be.
In some sense though they wanted the main portion of the angst and drama to occur after he had already resolved to end up with one girl but realized that he actually had feelings as well for the other one. Subsequently, they wanted us to really realize how heartbreaking it can be when the main character truly has feelings for two girls but chooses to remain loyal to the first.
I don't see how Aiko is a failure; they had either of two choices, 1- make her the elder stateman who elucidates upon Hiromi's actions as she does at first, or 2- jump in with a bang (i.e. the first kiss) and then leave quickly as the main character has no feelings for her. Obviously they went with the latter, but either way the execution was there and she fulfilled her role well; regardless I don't think an argument can be made that she would have been more compelling under the first choice.
Honestly, both Hiromi and Noe were created to be extremely emotional characters in the dimensions that they were shown, and in that sense they're unrealistic and hard to identify with, but I'd argue that the kind of drama and angst they were setting up required the girls to become extremely troubled by the end which is why they had issues with Shin's inability to resolve the situation.
Thus, I'd probably argue that they had to create unrealistic representations of Hiromi and Noe but detail them well enough that we'd understand what they were going through, which is probably why I understand your gripe in some sense. It's just that I think it was intended and done as well as possible.
I sort of see where you're going with the last point on Shin, but I think the problem was that although he intended to resolve everything around 10; he was unable to until he acknowledged his feelings for Noe and then figured out what to do about it. In that sense I do agree with you that it should have been more obvious earlier on that he was developing feelings for Noe and that it was causing him to be unable to resolve the situation earlier.
Finally, to wrap all of the above together, I think that the point of the show was to maximize our understanding of how hard it is for a guy in this position to choose between two girls that he has real feelings for. Hiromi and Noe being somewhat hard to identify with by the end is a part of this since the drama had to be maximized around the main character's wavering between the two.
Maybe I'm taking too narrow a view on what True Tears set out to do which is why I don't really see where you're going assuming that premise.
First off, let's talk about Aiko. Fair enough, there wasn't much the writers could do with her given 13 episodes. So the question still remains; why was she there at all? True Tears would not have been True Tears without Noe, or Hiromi; the same can't be said about Aiko. She could have been little more than a side character, and she'd have served her purpose well enough.
Yet it's clear she's supposed to be a main girl of sorts; Shinichiro still gets flashbacks of 'the kiss' from time to time, yet that was never fully resolved on his part. On Aiko's part, perhaps, but not exactly on Shin's. Ultimately it was a guy being torn between two girls; Aiko should have made it three, or she should have stayed in the background, but she ended up neither here nor there. I don't like that.
Otherwise, you're pretty much on the same stand as I, vio5555. I just thought the characterization was not up to par in the end.
First off, let's talk about Aiko. Fair enough, there wasn't much the writers could do with her given 13 episodes. So the question still remains; why was she there at all? True Tears would not have been True Tears without Noe, or Hiromi; the same can't be said about Aiko. She could have been little more than a side character, and she'd have served her purpose well enough.
Yet it's clear she's supposed to be a main girl of sorts; Shinichiro still gets flashbacks of 'the kiss' from time to time, yet that was never fully resolved on his part. On Aiko's part, perhaps, but not exactly on Shin's. Ultimately it was a guy being torn between two girls; Aiko should have made it three, or she should have stayed in the background, but she ended up neither here nor there. I don't like that.
Otherwise, you're pretty much on the same stand as I, vio5555. I just thought the characterization was not up to par in the end.
I'm going to start off with the premise that the writers intended for us to really understand 6 characters: Shin, Noe, Hiromi, Jun, Aiko and Nobuse. I think of these six, they wanted us to take the group of Shin, Noe, Hiromi, and Jun as being the most "unrealistic" at the start in that they were caught up in webs of lies and falsehoods that were keeping them far more chained than most "real people" and indeed more like a fictional drama.
On the other hand, Aiko and Nobuse were meant to be caught up in the most "realistic" web of lies in that their relationship to the other 4 was pretty much something you could easily see in the "real world".
Thus, I'd argue that Aiko and Nobuse's role in the series is to serve as a foil for the four characters (Aiko for Noe and Hiromi, Nobuse for Shin and Jun) in that their web of lies resolves easily and far more realistically than what the other four characters have to go through which again is more like a fictional drama.
This is why I believe Aiko's role is that she is meant to end up "in the middle" as you put it because she realizes that Shin has no feelings for her and is unentangled the most easily, and yet she's there for our benefit to see what a small realistic wavering can do compared to the earthquake that Noe represents.
I'd go one step further to argue that not having Aiko (or Nobuse) present would cripple the show's relativity to real life because those two tie the other characters to a sense of realism in the same way that the execution ties the rest of the show to a realistic portrayal.
I think that by the end, Shin and Jun, and Noe and Hiromi manage to become unentangled from their unrealistic drama and join their respective foils Nobuse and Aiko as complete and real characters (or that this is what was intended and possibly was a bit of a jump at the end).
This is why I see Aiko and Nobuse as being as integral to True Tears as the other 4. Without them, we wouldn't be able to see how far off track those 4 are, and they finally manage to join Aiko and Nobuse after completing the journey and shedding their layers of webs of deceit. Without Aiko, we wouldn't have a realistically portrayed female in the series to really shine the light on what Hiromi and Noe are and have become by the end.
All of this is why I believe that the characterization was superb, since I really see every character as serving a purpose in allowing us to view in context what the 6 characters are doing as well as relative to our own situations through Aiko and Nobuse.
Ascaloth
2008-03-31, 01:59
I'm going to start off with the premise that the writers intended for us to really understand 6 characters: Shin, Noe, Hiromi, Jun, Aiko and Nobuse. I think of these six, they wanted us to take the group of Shin, Noe, Hiromi, and Jun as being the most "unrealistic" at the start in that they were caught up in webs of lies and falsehoods that were keeping them far more chained than most "real people" and indeed more like a fictional drama.
On the other hand, Aiko and Nobuse were meant to be caught up in the most "realistic" web of lies in that their relationship to the other 4 was pretty much something you could easily see in the "real world".
Thus, I'd argue that Aiko and Nobuse's role in the series is to serve as a foil for the four characters (Aiko for Noe and Hiromi, Nobuse for Shin and Jun) in that their web of lies resolves easily and far more realistically than what the other four characters have to go through which again is more like a fictional drama.
This is why I believe Aiko's role is that she is meant to end up "in the middle" as you put it because she realizes that Shin has no feelings for her and is unentangled the most easily, and yet she's there for our benefit to see what a small realistic wavering can do compared to the earthquake that Noe represents.
I'd go one step further to argue that not having Aiko (or Nobuse) present would cripple the show's relativity to real life because those two tie the other characters to a sense of realism in the same way that the execution ties the rest of the show to a realistic portrayal.
I think that by the end, Shin and Jun, and Noe and Hiromi manage to become unentangled from their unrealistic drama and join their respective foils Nobuse and Aiko as complete and real characters (or that this is what was intended and possibly was a bit of a jump at the end).
This is why I see Aiko and Nobuse as being as integral to True Tears as the other 4. Without them, we wouldn't be able to see how far off track those 4 are, and they finally manage to join Aiko and Nobuse after completing the journey.
Fair enough. I like the way you argue your stand, and even though I don't agree with all of it, it does have its points. Cookie for you. :D
Mission accomplished Shin, you made Noe cry. *RAGE*
Master Chibi
2008-03-31, 02:11
I'm going to start off with the premise that the writers intended for us to really understand 6 characters: Shin, Noe, Hiromi, Jun, Aiko and Nobuse. I think of these six, they wanted us to take the group of Shin, Noe, Hiromi, and Jun as being the most "unrealistic" at the start in that they were caught up in webs of lies and falsehoods that were keeping them far more chained than most "real people" and indeed more like a fictional drama.
On the other hand, Aiko and Nobuse were meant to be caught up in the most "realistic" web of lies in that their relationship to the other 4 was pretty much something you could easily see in the "real world".
Thus, I'd argue that Aiko and Nobuse's role in the series is to serve as a foil for the four characters (Aiko for Noe and Hiromi, Nobuse for Shin and Jun) in that their web of lies resolves easily and far more realistically than what the other four characters have to go through which again is more like a fictional drama.
This is why I believe Aiko's role is that she is meant to end up "in the middle" as you put it because she realizes that Shin has no feelings for her and is unentangled the most easily, and yet she's there for our benefit to see what a small realistic wavering can do compared to the earthquake that Noe represents.
I'd go one step further to argue that not having Aiko (or Nobuse) present would cripple the show's relativity to real life because those two tie the other characters to a sense of realism in the same way that the execution ties the rest of the show to a realistic portrayal.
I think that by the end, Shin and Jun, and Noe and Hiromi manage to become unentangled from their unrealistic drama and join their respective foils Nobuse and Aiko as complete and real characters (or that this is what was intended and possibly was a bit of a jump at the end).
This is why I see Aiko and Nobuse as being as integral to True Tears as the other 4. Without them, we wouldn't be able to see how far off track those 4 are, and they finally manage to join Aiko and Nobuse after completing the journey and shedding their layers of webs of deceit. Without Aiko, we wouldn't have a realistically portrayed female in the series to really shine the light on what Hiromi and Noe are and have become by the end.
All of this is why I believe that the characterization was superb, since I really see every character as serving a purpose in allowing us to view in context what the 6 characters are doing as well as relative to our own situations through Aiko and Nobuse.
I like how you basically called the four main characters a bunch of unrealistic, over dramatic fools, while pointing out that Nobu and Aiko were nothing more than plot devices really.
I agree mind you.
You just happen to make it actually sound like it's a good thing.
:eyespin:
Sorrow-K
2008-03-31, 02:19
I think I've just had a revelation as to why I have been so ambivalent about True Tears.
As most of us would know, there is a genre within the entirety of the anime medium that is classified as "harem". Although the term had often been used to misrepresent certain romance shows in recent times, the most specific definition of its premise is that it's a guy surrounded by a group of girls all chasing him, with the guy unable to choose between all of them until the very end. Apart from the obvious fanservice, the premises in harem anime is often portrayed as a paradise on earth for the spineless male lead.
I think now that True Tears, in a sense, was trying to be ambitious; it was a shot at being an anti-harem. Put simply, it's a series that tries to portray the message that having several ladies pursuing you is not all that it's cracked up to be, that in reality it IS going to hurt you quite badly emotionally. That it will result in grief for all parties, without resorting to anime stereotypes like yandere or Nice Boat. That it will result in grief for yourself, even.
However, I believe that this is where Sorrow-K's observation becomes most apt; True Tears is doing everything right, except the characters. The failure is that Aiko didn't even look like being part of the scene despite supposedly being the third wheel around which things are supposed to revolve. The bigger failure is that Hiromi's angst drowned out the underlying motivations behind that angst. The even bigger failure is that Noe's eccentric manner of dealing with her own angst is also drowning out her underlying motivations underneath the angst.
The biggest failure is that Shinichiro's angst over being torn between the two loves of his life is just not obvious enough. All these failures are why True Tear's theme just flew right over the heads of the significant minority who didn't like this series, and even more so the shippers who are too focused on their favourite girl. To put it simply, True Tears was too subtle for its own good.
It was a nice try, but it needs some real polishing. I think I may just have figured out the axis around the Triple Critique that I'm going to write for True Tears.
Yeah, I think that's part of it. I think, for a series that was essentially about characters, there wasn't enough "microscope" applied to the thought processes that drove the characters, and too much of it was taken as implicitly understood, where that really was just too much to ask, at least for me.
I love the idea of giving conflicted characters the spotlight. But these characters were so confused and conflicted that it was almost impossible for me to gauge (with total confidence) just what they were thinking, who was in their heart at what stage, why they made the decisions they did, etc, etc. Maybe the problem was subtlety. I think a certain amount of subtlety is a good thing, because it shows respect to the audience, but like all things, it's very easy to go too far and go from merely being subtle to being a poor storyteller. As far as this anime was concerned, the characterization fell down because it was followed by these constant pleas for sympathy. I mean, sure, the characters were interesting because they were so confused and riddled with angst, but were they sympathetic? I wouldn't say so. The impersonal approach to characterization that True Tears took is fine, but don't follow it up with pleas for sympathy and attempts at moving drama. Moving drama requires the audience to make an emotional investment in the characters else it falls on its face, and I couldn't find a reason to make that investment with these characters.
I think this would have been great as a character analysis, but as a character-driven drama... too impersonal. Yes, I don't disagree that the "too subtle" argument is apt as well. It's certainly part of it.
On the shippers note, to put it as tactfully as possible, I question whether shippers understand this anime any better than I do.
@ Master Chibi
Well, I had mixed feelings after episode 12 (as anyone can see in the episode 12 thread) about Shin and where he was going, but I do think that the resolution answered what I wanted answered.
I suppose I'm probably closest to an "ends justify the means" kind of person, but I do think that the overdramatic presentation did work in some sense to get me to really appreciate the purpose of the series in understanding the emotions Shin, Noe, Hiromi, and Jun go through as the triangle finally resolves.
I do understand Ascaloth's point though that "All these failures are why True Tear's theme just flew right over the heads of the significant minority who didn't like this series, and even more so the shippers who are too focused on their favourite girl."
In some sense I do think True Tears probably meant more for some people who analyzed it a lot more deeply and objectively than most who will simply take it as another competitive harem ripe for shipping, since it did try to be more than just that.
I think Sorrow-K also nails the problem head on as others have with the idea that perhaps True Tears was too subtle.
We had these massive unresolvable debates in these threads about all of the possible interpretations of the chickens at the ends of episodes 10, 11, and 12, but now no one really knows what the ending of all that was.
Compounding that is the fact that the picturebook and chickens were supposed to show Shin's feelings leaning towards Noe, and only the Noe shippers (with a few notable additions) were arguing that case. And Shin's behavior at times was an enigma in that a good portion of the fanbase had no idea what Shin's actual feelings were for Noe until episode 13 which I do agree is a negative overall. I think some kind of confirmation of his feelings for Noe immediately after episode 9/10 when he confirmed his feelings for Hiromi would have given us a much better picture of what his feelings were and how he was wavering.
Instead we had to piece the whole thing together after the series which is in some sense less satisfying than absorbing and at least being able to know what is going on during each episode.
KholdStare
2008-03-31, 03:09
Good ending. 8/10 I'm not going to preach on this thread though. :(
D a m i e n
2008-03-31, 03:37
great ending, very good dialogue, it s been a while since i was captivated by a romance anime (last was KGNE).
the only thing i didnt really like is the fact that the aiko/nobuse pairing made me feel like it was forced, everything seems to be going too smoothly. i dont know how to word it but i think that the relation between the 2 of them should be friendship instead of romance. it may come from my past experiences but there are things that prevent any possible romance once you cross a line, being friends again seems acceptable but not romance.
it was expected to see the noe fan rage, or claim they are happy cause shin didnt deserve her blah blah blah, so much hate/denial. if it had been a noe ending the same would have happen with the hiromi fans.
cebukitty
2008-03-31, 03:45
I'm having so much fun reading the comments -- it only shows how many people have been affected by the show. Whether they be Noe fans, Hiromi fans or Ai fans.
IMHO, the fact that there are shippers in this anime (and such a loyal lot they are) indicates that the characters resonated with the viewers on a personal level. Perhaps there just wasn't enough airtime to go into the nitty gritty details of each character and at the same time keep the main plot and subplots rolling .
I've been an anime fan since forever, and make it a point to watch all the animes I can get my paws on ;) I have to say tho its been a long time since an anime like true tears really moved me. Is it nostalgia perhaps? I rather doubt I'd forget the character of Noe anytime soon. I've even made AMV homages to Noe, a definite first for me.
In the end, though the fact that Shin didn't choose Noe disappointed me, I echo the idea propounded by other posters that Noe and Shin are catalysts to help the other take off.
I wish tho, they could at least keep their friendship intact. But I don't think Hiromi would stand for it and Shin's heart might start wavering again. No one can deny that Shin and Noe have a special relationship. Their souls were calling to each other even before they met. Remember Shin had a vision of Noe even before he met her, and that first meeting they had with Shin gazing awestruck at Noe glowing golden from the sunlight behind her -- simply beautiful :) But again, I guess not all soulmates become lovers.
Subtlely. I think that's exactly what the writers want to do. They want to keep people guessing what's going on with the character until the very end. People might hate or love it, but the fact that it made them stick with the story till the end is what matters. If you ask me, I think it was one of the strongest characteristic of the show. Subtlety. :)
We had these massive unresolvable debates in these threads about all of the possible interpretations of the chickens at the ends of episodes 10, 11, and 12, but now no one really knows what the ending of all that was.
It's kind of ironic how we're all focused about the symbolisms of the chicken when they didn't really tell us a proper interpretation of the scenes. I thought they would but maybe they thought it was so straightforward.:eyebrow: As it stands, I'm just going to go with Raigomaru -> Shin and Jibeta -> Noe (from ep 12). When Noe said that she'd just figure out what happened to Raigomaru after he flew, she probably was referring to Shinichiro's progress from thereon. In the end, the chicken metaphors he drew in the picturebook stayed true to what Noe wanted him to be. Always looking at the sky. The airplane Shin was drawing during class showed he still had that 'spirit' of flight in him. It was a nice resolution.
I finally watched the subbed version, so I have more to say now.
Though Shin stayed with Hiromi in the end, the girl who Shin opened up to was actually Noe. She had such a huge impact on him and he admitted that. As if that's bad enough, he even admitted that despite his current convictions (he loved Hiromi from the get go) his heart "wavers" whenever he looks at Noe. Noe's my fave so it amused me to watch Shinichiro "waver" and suffer, but from Hiromi's standpoint, that's something that can potentially drive her to cut off Noe's face from the yearbook. And surprisingly, I would empathize with her lol The setting actually looked like Hiromi is the wife and the homewrecker is Noe. Shinichiro did the right thing when he let Noe go. It wouldn't be fair to Hiromi. Noe's better off without Shin, and I guess Hiromi finally proved herself worthy in this episode.
I punched Hiromi on my screen.
L.O.L!
Liddo-kun
2008-03-31, 04:39
I punched Hiromi on my screen.
So violent. o.o!
Anyway if they were real people, Shin would punch you back for sure - just kidding.
great ending, very good dialogue, it s been a while since i was captivated by a romance anime (last was KGNE).
the only thing i didnt really like is the fact that the aiko/nobuse pairing made me feel like it was forced, everything seems to be going too smoothly. i dont know how to word it but i think that the relation between the 2 of them should be friendship instead of romance.
No, it is not forced. The reason that they don't tell us whether they are a couple or not is intentional. They are basically letting both sides (the one that want them together and the one that don't ) make their own judgement. Their relationship is not forced because they are friends, the only thing we can be SURE is that Aiko is finally looking at nobuse the same way she used to look at Shin by her reaction when he was waiting for her at the front of the store. The difference is that when they were a couple they weren't good friends, now they are good friends and love can come out of it. That is the message that the writers and directors want to give us, nothing more and nothing less, that is why they left it ambiguous. I know many people call it a victory for Nobuse, but no where in concrete word is said that they are back together as a couple. Until we see Nobuse with Aiko's hand made sweater, we can't call it a done deal. I am sure it will happen sooner or later!
TinyRedLeaf
2008-03-31, 06:45
I'm not sure about how much realistic character development we can expect from a romance stories. Real relationships don't often strike me as being very romantic. That's why we like indulging in fantasies after all.
If I were to hazard a guess, Hiromi represents a kind of Japanese "ideal", ie, an athletic, conscientious, self-sacrificing woman, while Noe represents the spontaneous genius, full of zeal and inspiration but somewhat prickly at the same time. Speaking for myself, I would naturally gravitate to someone like Hiromi, but I know I'd have lots of fun hanging out with someone like Noe. Noe would make a great friend, but I tend to think that Hiromi makes the better wife.
I'd say, if such a situation actually occured to me in real life, it would be hard for me to make a choice. So, spare a thought for poor Shinichiro, eh? :p
Sinestra
2008-03-31, 07:36
Did anyone eles burst out laughing when Shin starting crying and singing the cockroach song?or was it just me. I just couldnt help it i know it was suppose to be a serious part but I couldnt hold back my laughter.
Sorrow-K
2008-03-31, 07:57
I didn't laugh, but I certainly thought the scene missed its mark. It was just another case of Shinichiro being so confused and conflicted and me just looking and him and saying "you're so confused and conflicted".
D a m i e n
2008-03-31, 07:58
it actually made me cringle.
Sinestra
2008-03-31, 08:14
I didn't laugh, but I certainly thought the scene missed its mark. It was just another case of Shinichiro being so confused and conflicted and me just looking and him and saying "you're so confused and conflicted".
Oh it definitely missed its mark i know what they were trying to do it just had no effect, The best scenes for me were Shins mom and Hiromi especially when shes says to Hiromi "its hard isnt it? the waiting" because that showed me Shins approves and knows how she feels. The short Ai and Nobuse scene was just cool, showing how well they are getting along without Shin and the scene right before Shins little break down when he was with Noe. Also, Hiromi and Shins finally scene was pretty good too.
Claymore
2008-03-31, 08:20
did you see something...
pink? :heh:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g156/Claymore01/tt_13_pink.jpg
My rating for this episode has just gone up by one.
D a m i e n
2008-03-31, 08:26
did you see something...
pink? :heh:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g156/Claymore01/tt_13_pink.jpg
i m at a loss of words... in your defence tomoyo told the viewers there was something to look forward to... if there had been no mention that there was some special hidden service i would have been worried about your... err... ability to notice such details... :heh:
relentlessflame
2008-03-31, 09:16
Going back to this from 11 hours ago, but with 2 pages having passed it seems like an eternity. But I'll try to make it brief this time since the rest of the forum has moved on...As for the other set of interpretations, from what I have said before what the animators should've done, I knew what they were trying to say (preaching to the choir here guys ;p). That despite Noe still has a small piece of his heart, Shin still chose Hiromi in the end.
Telling the girl in question that you'll stay with her forever, however, does not imply at all at the above, well at least where I come from. While not exactly a 'proposal' (I only used that term since it's much shorter), those words to me still basically says 'I'll stay with you forever because you're the only girl for me', and not 'I'll stay with you forever even when I still have feelings for another girl', with the italicized parts being the implied words.It was incredibly important that Noe no longer had a piece of his heart, and that he make it crystal clear to Hiromi that she was the only girl for him. That's the point! The power of the preceeding scene was precisely that: him abandoning his feelings for Noe. Him saying that he still has feelings for another girl would have ruined everything that farewell scene was trying to portray, and the trust Noe asked Shinichirou to have in her. It would have meant that there was still an "opening" and that's what caused the entire misunderstanding between Shinichirou's parents in the past.
So, in my opinion, the words the writers chose here were essential, and if they had changed it to what you think they meant to imply, it would have ruined the entire ending. Sorry for being blunt, but I felt that the point of the scene was: no more doubts, no more regrets. That's why his farewell to Noe was so painful, and why the timing was critical. So this is why I wasn't "preaching to the choir" on this one; I disagree with your suggestion for storytelling reasons (though I can certiainly respect that that's your opinion).
@ ani_d
I agree with all of that; I just want to add that my interpretation was similar in that I think by the end Shin finally sees Noe representing Jibeta instead of putting himself in Jibeta's shoes in some sense in the previous eps.
Also, more importantly perhaps, that Raigomaru flies first on Jibeta's feelings, but then is able to give back to Jibeta by becoming his wings in some sense; much like how Noe was the reason Shin was able to fly, and at the end, she flies (walks) with Shin's feelings for her.
I think they're able to each be the reason that the other one manages to fly in the Raigomaru/Jibeta and Shin/Noe sense even though it's not really spelled out clearly what the interpretation of the former should be.
@ Sinestra, Sorrow-K
I cringed at first as well, perhaps because of how loud Shin was and how perhaps broken down he was for the first time in the series. Upon rewatching it though with a much more straight face, I think the artistic value in the scene does shine through in a way, but it was definitely hard for me to take it at face value at first.
Again, I think it comes back to the fact that a significant number of people trying to stay objective totally missed Shin's feelings for Noe until the very end. People who really argued that Shin had feelings for Noe at the end of 12 probably got a lot more from that scene than someone like me who missed a lot of that and didn't get it till I was presented with episode 13. I had to rewatch that episode and the previous ones in that kind of context to feel what the writers were trying to present to us in that scene.
As an example, it was far more easy for me to accept Jun saying with a straight face to Hiromi that he had "never had any feelings for her, not even a little" because I was arguing that around episode 9 or 10, whereas there were still some people arguing that maybe he had something for her.
I just think that everyone picked up at least a few of the pieces but very few picked up all of them before the final episode. Then again I think that's why the people who've been deconstructing and discussing this anime over the past few months will get a lot more out of it than the average viewer watching on their own who might not pick it all up on their own.
@ Claymore
Claymore, I have no idea how hard you had to have worked to find that.
Even though Tomoyo does say "They're visible"; still >_>
relentlessflame
2008-03-31, 09:58
I agree with all of that; I just want to add that my interpretation was similar in that I think by the end Shin finally sees Noe representing Jibeta instead of putting himself in Jibeta's shoes in some sense in the previous eps.
Also, more importantly perhaps, that Raigomaru flies first on Jibeta's feelings, but then is able to give back to Jibeta by becoming his wings in some sense; much like how Noe was the reason Shin was able to fly, and at the end, she flies (walks) with Shin's feelings for her.
I think they're able to each be the reason that the other one manages to fly in the Raigomaru/Jibeta and Shin/Noe sense even though it's not really spelled out clearly what the interpretation of the former should be.In the end, who represents who doesn't really matter all that much. One chicken chose to fly; one chicken chose to stay on the ground and look proudly ahead. The message that Noe understood from the story -- the message Shinichirou was trying to tell her -- was clear (based on the farewell scene): he believes that she can fly, if she chooses to. The entire scene hinged on that metaphor, and Shinichirou confirmed it. So... I'm not sure if either chicken was strictly-speaking one character or the other, but there were aspects of each of the two characters that applied to both of them. It's the moral of the story that's important (and even Noe herself alluded to that fact with the realization that she was missing the last page -- though that too was laced with a double or triple-meaning).
And for what it's worth... I strongly dislike the "wavers" translation. It implies that she was leading him astray, but I don't think that was what they were trying to imply. The word is more like "shakes" or "quakes", and I think that's more akin to one's heart "aching" (think about the times when you've cried, and the feeling in your heart at the time). Saying "when your heart aches" is also a more expected answer to Shinichirou's "when do you cry?" question to his father (while still being important and profound).
Shinichirou did have feelings for Noe -- she was an inspiration to him, and what enabled him to find his purpose and determination in life, and he also saw that she was in much pain though he never understood why (see the scene with Jun). He worried about her. His heart ached when he was with her because of all this, but "wavers" implies too strongly that it was lessening his feelings for Hiromi, which the show (it seems to me) has never otherwise suggested. I think the feelings Shinichirou had for Noe were strong and powerful, but different than those he had for Hiromi. But, him being torn between these two seperate sets of emotions was causing pain for both girls; he couldn't have both. This is why he could still rightfully say that Hiromi was the one he's always loved, but Noe was the one who inspired him to draw, dance, and "fly". This also ties into why I felt the confession scene after the farewell made sense. Perhaps all this is just arguing semantics, but it seems to me that the distinction is important, again in that small, subtle way that defines a lot of the show's message.
Of course, that's all just my own interpretation/opinion, and everyone's free to disagree. Whatever works for you. :p
cebukitty
2008-03-31, 10:00
lol @ the hidden fanservice!:eyespin:
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.