Character Discussion - Kallen

[Dandylion]

I'm not sure why Shirley needs to be brought up here. I really don't want to go down the Shirley path as I was not a big fan of her.. Honestly I never really couldn't understand her appeal.
I can say the same thing about alot of characters, but we all have are reasons

[Narona]

I'm not sure why Shirley needs to be brought up here. I really don't want to go down the Shirley path as I was not a big fan of her.. Honestly I never really couldn't understand her appeal.
My point was that Taniguchi was imo unfair with some big characters in this series, and thinking that he can't be unfair with kallen is having double standart imo.

Its like saying, okouchi can be unfair with everyone but kallen because the one who said that like kallen.

[yvj]

I can say the same thing about alot of characters, but we all have are reasons

:confused:

Got something you want to confess? :eyespin:

[Dandylion]

:confused:

Got something you want to confess? :eyespin:
Tamaki, that is all:heh:

[Verist]

My point was that Taniguchi was imo unfair with some big characters in this series, and thinking that he can't be unfair with kallen is having double standart imo.

Its like saying, okouchi can be unfair with everyone but kallen because the one who said that like kallen.

Kallen and Shirley are not on the same level. Ok, Shirley had fans, but did anyone really think she was going to end up with Lelouch? She is nowhere near as important as C.C. or Kallen.

[lovecakecookies]

Man in two days.... just two more days and no more constant arguing on Suzaku V. Kallen.. comeee on comeee Sunday!!! (sat night for me :) )

[Dandylion]

My point was that Taniguchi was imo unfair with some big characters in this series, and thinking that he can't be unfair with kallen is having double standart imo.

Its like saying, okouchi can be unfair with everyone but kallen because the one who said that like kallen.
Perfect example; Euphiemia, her whole character is the basis of unfair since her actions were to help people no matter how small it was and what happens she is geassed to kill the same people she brought help to and is killed and is forever remembered as a massacre princess

[morbosfist]

We didn't see him saying that but I assume it's part of their plan (so that's he said it offscreen). And the brain is lelouch. I don't say that suzaku is an idiot but Lelouch is obviously the one who designed the plan imo.Well obviously Lelouch designed the plan, but Lelouch is not the type to give people vague orders like that. It invites woeful misunderstandings.

[Verist]

Man in two days.... just two more days and no more constant arguing on Suzaku V. Kallen.. comeee on comeee Sunday!!! (sat night for me :) )

Don't worry, we will all be here to complain about Suzaku anyway :)

[yvj]

Kallen and Shirley are not on the same level. Ok, Shirley had fans, but did anyone really think she was going to end up with Lelouch? She is nowhere near as important as C.C. or Kallen.

I understand what you're saying. She wasn't a main character.

But Shirely fans had a legitimate argument and they have a right to be upset, since she had signifcant development in one specific direction.

Its just as Kallen fans have a right to be upset depending on how things go down in future eps.

[Dandylion]

Kallen and Shirley are not on the same level. Ok, Shirley had fans, but did anyone really think she was going to end up with Lelouch? She is nowhere near as important as C.C. or Kallen.
Your point? Who cares, this isn't a popularity contest if it is their intent than so be it and quite frankly with Kallen opposing Lelouch it doesn't look too good for her.

[linkinstreet]

Kallen and Shirley are not on the same level. Ok, Shirley had fans, but did anyone really think she was going to end up with Lelouch? She is nowhere near as important as C.C. or Kallen.Even tho I'm a Kalulu citizen, i found that is far from the truth. She was one of the reason that made lelouch realise, for every action he took, there will always be a concequences. In the end, he decides to ditch his "the end justify the means" approach just because of that

[Eliarine]

Kallen and Shirley are not on the same level. Ok, Shirley had fans, but did anyone really think she was going to end up with Lelouch? She is nowhere near as important as C.C. or Kallen.

Halfway through R2, I did think she had much better chances at that than Kallen, at least. What do I win?

[Narona]

Kallen and Shirley are not on the same level. Ok, Shirley had fans, but did anyone really think she was going to end up with Lelouch? She is nowhere near as important as C.C. or Kallen.
That was not my point at all. I was just saying that some kallen fans think that taniguchi can't be unfair with kallen, but we can't be sure of that.

I know that some people in this thread are fans of Kallen, but, and excuse me to say that, some comments are biased because some people only see the good possibilities, while the worst could also happen to her.

[lovecakecookies]

Don't worry, we will all be here to complain about Suzaku anyway :)

LOl.. I actually like Suzaku... I Like Kallen a bit more though.. ;)

Thats why these arguments make me sad :(

I believe that Suzaku and Kallen will be buddies by the end of the show.. mark my words!!

[Dandylion]

Well obviously Lelouch designed the plan, but Lelouch is not the type to give people vague orders like that. It invites woeful misunderstandings.
So your saying his plan didn't cause for casualties and he wanted everyone who disagreed with him to live, as I recall he said that there will be so much bloodshed that everyone will forget about Euphie, or did you miss that:rolleyes:

[Verist]

Your point? Who cares, this isn't a popularity contest if it is their intent than so be it and quite frankly with Kallen opposing Lelouch it doesn't look too good for her.

Importance and popularity are not the same thing. If you reread my post, I was talking about importance to the story.

[lovecakecookies]

Your point? Who cares, this isn't a popularity contest if it is their intent than so be it and quite frankly with Kallen opposing Lelouch it doesn't look too good for her.

it doesn't look good for her because she is against Lulu? what do you mean? :uhoh:

And I highly doubt they will stay enemies till the end..

[Verist]

That was not my point at all. I was just saying that some kallen fans think that taniguchi can't be unfair with kallen, but we can't be sure of that.

I know that a some people in this thread are fans of Kallen, but, and excuse me to say that, some comments are biased because some people only see the good possibilities, while the worst could also happen to her.

The reason the Kallen fans are so defensive is that they fear the possibility of the worst IMO.

[Dandylion]

That was not my point at all. I was just saying that some kallen fans think that taniguchi can't be unfair with kallen, but we can't be sure of that.

I know that some people in this thread are fans of Kallen, but, and excuse me to say that, some comments are biased because some people only see the good possibilities, while the worst could also happen to her.
Narona your a beacon of light in the dark protruding blindness that is the Kallen discussion thread

[morbosfist]

So your saying his plan didn't cause for casualties and he wanted everyone who disagreed with him to live, as I recall he said that there will be so much bloodshed that everyone will forget about Euphie, or did you miss that:rolleyes:No, you're trying to say it. There's a difference. If you think twisting my words to an extreme makes your position better, you'd be mistaken. Lelouch gives immediate orders. He doesn't give vague orders, as this would be. Suzaku's role in this is to be Lelouch's sword. Swords aren't supposed to act of their own accord.

[Sports72Xtrm]

So your saying his plan didn't cause for casualties and he wanted everyone who disagreed with him to live, as I recall he said that there will be so much bloodshed that everyone will forget about Euphie, or did you miss that:rolleyes:

Yeah seriously, If Lelouch gets mad for his loved ones being casualties he deserves another beat down from Suzaku to wake him up. Bonds and friendships are like Suzaku hiding behind morals and aesthetics back in R1. He needs to serious the fuck up.

[Narona]

Perfect example; Euphiemia, her whole character is the basis of unfair since her actions were to help people no matter how small it was and what happens she is geassed to kill the same people she brought help to and is killed and is forever remembered as a massacre princess
True. Euphie never did anything bad till the massacre of the japanese. That was totally unfair. I feel so much sorry for her fans and the fans of SxE.

Well obviously Lelouch designed the plan, but Lelouch is not the type to give people vague orders like that. It invites woeful misunderstandings.
I think that Lelouch said clearly to suzaku what he has to do during all the plan.
Narona your a beacon of light in the dark protruding blindness that is the Kallen discussion thread
It's the same in the other characters thread. So don't blame all the kallen fan (I said "some" not "all").

Do you remember babaganush? a C.C. fan.

[Dandylion]

it doesn't look good for her because she is against Lulu? what do you mean? :uhoh:

And I highly doubt they will stay enemies till the end..
Uh...Suzaku? And the fact that Zero's Requiem begins regardless in Turn 25

[yvj]

That was not my point at all. I was just saying that some kallen fans think that taniguchi can't be unfair with kallen, but we can't be sure of that.

I know that a some people in this thread are fans of Kallen, but, and excuse me to say that, some comments are biased because some people only see the good possibilities, while the worst could also happen to her.

No

There's a difference between being unfair to a character and having her development wasted.

Euph killed: Unfair but had impact on plot. Development with Suzaku resolved (reciprocated feelings) and her ideals resolved (She impacted those around her. Lelouch, Nunnally, Suzaku, Nina etc etc)

Shirley Killed: Unfair but had impact on plot. Development with Lelouch (she confessed her feeling though it was not reciprocated) AND her death impacted Lelouch and the Gaess plot.

Kallen: Development :confused: Lelouch?

[Revolutionist]

the beating was the pay back
and not nearly all he deserved mind you

Pay back for what, the punch to her stomach before he attempted to refrain her? He didn't deserve any of that tbh, he did stop before actually injecting her and later apologized for it.

[Dandylion]

No, you're trying to say it. There's a difference. If you think twisting my words to an extreme makes your position better, you'd be mistaken. Lelouch gives immediate orders. He doesn't give vague orders, as this would be. Suzaku's role in this is to be Lelouch's sword. Swords aren't supposed to act of their own accord.
And you just don't get it, do you if Lelouch didn't want Suzaku to attack Kallen he would have said so also he hasn't acted to his own accord like you said but your letting that sword comment he made get to you and that has been the thesis for all your arguments regarding this issue

[lovecakecookies]

Uh...Suzaku? And the fact that Zero's Requiem begins regardless in Turn 25

Oh never mind, I thought you meant as a character as a whole....my bad... never mind then..

We don't know what Zero Requiem is, too early to say how it will affect anyone..

[Dandylion]

No

There's a difference between being unfair to a character and having her development wasted.

Euph killed: Unfair but had impact on plot. Development with Suzaku resolved (reciprocated feelings) and her ideals resolved (She impacted those around her. Lelouch, Nunnally, Suzaku, Nina etc etc)

Shirley Killed: Unfair but had impact on plot. Development with Lelouch (she confessed her feeling though it was not reciprocated) AND her death impacted Lelouch and the Gaess plot.

Kallen: Development :confused: Lelouch?
She could die protecting Lelouch

[yvj]

She could die protecting Lelouch

Like Rolo? :rolleyes:

So Kallen development was all leading to her rehashing a cliche plotline that was already done less than ten episodes prior?


Sorry if I think that blows

[lovecakecookies]

She could die protecting Lelouch

She could.. but she is trying to stop him right now.. it would be a twist... and it could happen..

[morbosfist]

And you just don't get it, do you if Lelouch didn't want Suzaku to attack Kallen he would have said so also he hasn't acted to his own accord like you said but your letting that sword comment he made get to you and that has been the thesis for all your arguments regarding this issueI at least have one ominous statement backing my position. What proof do you have that Lelouch is perfectly willing to let Suzaku kill her?

[Narona]

I at least have one ominous statement backing my position. What proof do you have that Lelouch is perfectly willing to let Suzaku kill her?
The M. Fuji strategy could have killed her. Lelouch never thought even once about her during the battle in 23.

I even thought that we would see him thinking about her, but no, not at all. I was even disappointed because it's like that he doesn't care

[Sports72Xtrm]

I at least have one ominous statement backing my position. What proof do you have that Lelouch is perfectly willing to let Suzaku kill her?

It should be implied. He may not like it but seriously, does Lelouch expect Suzaku to play with kid gloves against forces trying to kill them? An enemy is an enemy. Nunally is an enemy. What does Lelouch expect him to do? If Kallen is not wearing a Emperor Lelouch army uniform what do you expect him to do?

[morbosfist]

The M. Fuji strategy could have killed her. Lelouch never thought even once about her during the battle in 23.

I even thought that we will see him thinking about her, but no, not at all. I was even disappointed because it's like that he doesn't careI would say he's focused on bigger things at the moment, i.e. Nunnally and Damocles. As for Mount Fuji, she was well out of range when he detonated it. The Ikaruga had just used its Hadron Cannons, meaning all their Knightmare units were out of the way.

[Eliarine]

Like Rolo? :rolleyes:

So Kallen development was all leading to her rehashing a cliche plotline that was already done less than ten episodes prior?


Sorry if I think that blows

Or she could, in the end, be one of the last persons alive knowing that Lelouch wasn't really the monster he was trying to pretend to be right before sacrificing himself (assuming he does, we're talking possible endings here). Her whole development toward understanding him could lead to something like that.

I could see Kallen being the narrator for the epilogue for example, telling us viewers that while Lelouch (and Suzaku, if Kallen is to be his only real friend alive at the end) died to make the world a better place, no one will ever thank him for that.

... :eyespin:

(...now where have I heard that before...)

[Narona]

I would say he's focused on bigger things at the moment, i.e. Nunnally and Damocles. As for Mount Fuji, she was well out of range when he detonated it. The Ikaruga had just used its Hadron Cannons, meaning all their Knightmare units were out of the way.
That doesn't change the fact that given other circumstances she could have died.

He sees nunnaly as an enemy and will not hold back apparently (scene with c.c.)

And you expect him to act differently with kallen?

I don't get your point. :uhoh: but maybe it's just me

[Dandylion]

I at least have one ominous statement backing my position. What proof do you have that Lelouch is perfectly willing to let Suzaku kill her?
No you don't your assuming everything will go that way because of your bias opinion on the characters rather than what has happened up in to this point like Narona stated she could have die in the impact of Mt. Fuji exploding and the fact that he cares isn't gonna stop him from his plan, he said iy himself that this is something he has to do, the silent treatment he gave to Rivalz and Kallen should click to them that he does not want them involved with what he's planning.

[lovecakecookies]

Or she could, in the end, be one of the last persons alive knowing that Lelouch wasn't really the monster he was trying to pretend to be right before sacrificing himself (assuming he does, we're talking possible endings here). Her whole development toward understanding him could lead to something like that.

I could see Kallen being the narrator for the epilogue for example, telling us viewers that while Lelouch (and Suzaku, if Kallen is to be his only real friend alive at the end) died to make the world a better place, no one will ever thank him for that.

... :eyespin:

(...now where have I heard that before...)

I actually don't mind this one too much.. :)

[morbosfist]

That doesn't change the fact that given other circumstances she could have died.

He sees nunnaly as an enemy and will not hold back apparently (scene with c.c.)

And you expect him to act differently with kallen?

I don't get your point. :uhoh: but maybe it's just meThere's always a risk that she could have died, but Lelouch is good at arranging things so such outcomes are unlikely.

I don't expect him to order his forces to ignore her at all costs or anything so blatant, but if he were treating her as a threat same as any other, he would have had Suzaku deal with her right off the bat. Even if she is an enemy, he can still arrange things so victory doesn't have to entail her dying as a part of it.

[Dandylion]

Or she could, in the end, be one of the last persons alive knowing that Lelouch wasn't really the monster he was trying to pretend to be right before sacrificing himself (assuming he does, we're talking possible endings here). Her whole development toward understanding him could lead to something like that.

I could see Kallen being the narrator for the epilogue for example, telling us viewers that while Lelouch (and Suzaku, if Kallen is to be his only real friend alive at the end) died to make the world a better place, no one will ever thank him for that.

... :eyespin:

(...now where have I heard that before...)
Yes where have you? :heh:;)

[Narona]

There's always a risk that she could have died, but Lelouch is good at arranging things so such outcomes are unlikely.

I don't expect him to order his forces to ignore her at all costs or anything so blatant, but if he were treating her as a threat same as any other, he would have had Suzaku deal with her right off the bat. Even if she is an enemy, he can still arrange things so victory doesn't have to entail her dying as a part of it.
I don't think that he thought about that and even so, he is not good at protecting those who feel close to him: shirley for instance.

Imo, I don't see him protecting kallen in any way when he already turned against nunnaly who is above kallen in his heart.

[morbosfist]

I don't think that he thought about that and even so, he is not good at protecting those who feel close to him: shirley for instance.

I don't see him protecting kallen in any way when he already turned against nunnaly who is above kallen in his heart.She only surfaced recently, while Kallen was there before she came back.

[Dandylion]

She only surfaced recently, while Kallen was there before she came back.
Your point being she's about to wipe him out with her radiation arm but is obviouly having regrets about it, what better way to take her out.

[lovecakecookies]

I think we should wait and see how Lulu handles Kallen in the next episode before jumping to conclusions, she is going to battle Suzaku, and I am sure Lulu will know..

so what he thinks/says on the matter will be interesting..

he might be willing to sacrifice/let Suzaku kill her for the plan/promise (whatever makes you happy)
or tell Suzaku something like "make sure you let her live"

Next epiosde...all I am saying..

[Narona]

She only surfaced recently, while Kallen was there before she came back.
In my honest opinion, this is a weak argument. Excuse me :upset:

No you don't your assuming everything will go that way because of your bias opinion on the characters rather than what has happened up in to this point like Narona stated she could have die in the impact of Mt. Fuji exploding and the fact that he cares isn't gonna stop him from his plan, he said iy himself that this is something he has to do, the silent treatment he gave to Rivalz and Kallen should click to them that he does not want them involved with what he's planning.
Calm down, I know that my post could make people think that I am angry, but not at all :O (not this time at least)

Morbo has his own opinion, I'm just not ok with him but he could be right, who knows?

[lovecakecookies]

In my honest opinion, this is a weak argument. Excuse me :upset:


Calm down, I know that my post could make people think that I am angry, but not at all :O (not thime time at least)

Morbo has his own opinion, I'm just not ok with him but he could be right, who knows?

Thank you Narona.. you are never hostile to prove your points/opinions ;)

unlike some people.. :uhoh:

[Dandylion]

Thank you Narona.. you are never hostile to prove your points/opinions ;)

unlike some people.. :uhoh:
What's that supposed to mean?:eyebrow:

[morbosfist]

I'm getting tired of arguing this, too. The way I see it, even if Lelouch is willing to fight those he cares about, killing them is another step entirely. Even if Nunnally is sitting on the Damocles, the very fact that Lelouch confronts her tells me he's not going to just write her off as a casualty of war if he can help it. Same with Kallen. If he can arrange the battle in such a way that she can be relatively safe (nothing but the Albion is taking down that Guren, and it's somewhere else), he will.

What's that supposed to mean?:eyebrow:It means you're needlessly hostile. I enjoy arguing with people, but there's nothing to enjoy when the other side laces every post with sarcasm and hostile language.

[yvj]

Or she could, in the end, be one of the last persons alive knowing that Lelouch wasn't really the monster he was trying to pretend to be right before sacrificing himself (assuming he does, we're talking possible endings here). Her whole development toward understanding him could lead to something like that.

I could see Kallen being the narrator for the epilogue for example, telling us viewers that while Lelouch (and Suzaku, if Kallen is to be his only real friend alive at the end) died to make the world a better place, no one will ever thank him for that.

... :eyespin:

(...now where have I heard that before...)

That of course is a completely different argument than the one I was replying too.

Though its not my ideal ending obviously. I'll be fine with it. It's much easier to swallow than the alternatives. Granted there is a lot to be addressed between now and such a possible ending.

[Narona]

Thank you Narona.. you are never hostile to prove your points/opinions ;)

unlike some people.. :uhoh:
Only the show can say who is right and who is wrong. I was, with Sol, amongst the ones who said that shirley will not die. I argued about that many times. I always thought that lelouch will save her if she was ever in danger.

The show talked: She died.

[lovecakecookies]

I'm getting tired of arguing this, too. The way I see it, even if Lelouch is willing to fight those he cares about, killing them is another step entirely. Even if Nunnally is sitting on the Damocles, the very fact that Lelouch confronts her tells me he's not going to just write her off as a casualty of war if he can help it. Same with Kallen. If he can arrange the battle in such a way that she can be relatively safe (nothing but the Albion is taking down that Guren, and it's somewhere else). he will.

Yes, I agree. ... lets wait till next episode and see if Lulu will order/allow Suzaku to go ahead and kill Kallen or whatever..

[Sports72Xtrm]

Thank you Narona.. you are never hostile to prove your points/opinions ;)

unlike some people.. :uhoh:

Well Narona is usually a cool head and a voice of reason. But even I have to admit that I do express a certain zeal when my logic is challenged. But I for one hope that I will concede to a point if I can't prove it otherwise. But because some things can only be only left to interpretation, it's hard to give up your argument when the opposing argument can't be easily validated or disproved just as mine can't. A little hostility is inevitable.

[lovecakecookies]

Well Narona is usually a cool head and a voice of reason. But even I have to admit that I do express a certain zeal when my logic is challenged. But I for one hope that I will concede to a point if I can't prove it otherwise. But because some things can only be only left to interpretation, it's hard to give up your argument when the opposing argument can't be easily validated or disproved just as mine can't. A little hostility is inevitable.

I applaud you sir for admitting it.. :)

I don't mind it too much, I just don't want this thread to get closed again... or have a bunch of bans happen man..

[Narona]

Well Narona is usually a cool head and a voice of reason. But even I have to admit that I do express a certain zeal when my logic is challenged. But I for one hope that I will concede to a point if I can't prove it otherwise. But because some things can only be only left to interpretation, it's hard to give up your argument when the opposing argument can't be easily validated or disproved just as mine can't. A little hostility is inevitable.
Exactly, when someone can't prove at 100% that something will happen or not, some people will still say that something else could happen.

Only one person was feared on that matter and often unbeatable, Var :heh:

[lovecakecookies]

Exactly, when someone can't prove at 100% that something will happen or not, some people will still say that something else could happen.

Only one person was feared on that matter and often unbeatable, Var :heh:

LOL...

I miss him in these debates, they would have stopped a long time ago if he was here..

[Dandylion]

It means you're needlessly hostile. I enjoy arguing with people, but there's nothing to enjoy when the other side laces every post with sarcasm and hostile language.
well whatever, never thought of it that way I just wanted to prove a point

[Rising Dragon]

Why was Var banned, anyway?

[Dream_Traveller]

Exactly, when someone can't prove at 100% that something will happen or not, some people will still say that something else could happen.

Only one person was feared on that matter and often unbeatable, Var :heh:

Why was he banned, by the way, along with gabbytay?

[Dandylion]

Why was he banned, by the way, along with gabbytay?
Apparently xris was on a banning spree on Monday and they just so happen to cross his path :heh:

[yvj]

Why was Var banned, anyway?

Romance thread.

Enough said

[Dandylion]

Romance thread.

Enough said
Like I said Monday was ban day:heh:

[Verist]

I stay well away from the romance thread.. thats why I get a little defensive on my "home" turf here.

[lovecakecookies]

Why was he banned, by the way, along with gabbytay?

I am pretty sure I know why she was banned... but I will not say why here..
as for VAR I have no clue.. :confused:
stay on topic people, or else get infractions..

anyways.. Kallen should figure something out next episode hopefully.. :)

[Dandylion]

I am pretty sure I know why she was banned... but I will not say why here..
as for VAR I have no clue.. :confused:
stay on topic people, or else get infractions..

anyways.. Kallen should figure something out next episode hopefully.. :)
we can only hope she won't stay in the dark until the end

[Sports72Xtrm]

Honestly I want Kallen continue to share opposite views from Lelouch eg his methods or his plan or whatever even through the end. What exactly is she trying to understand about Lelouch? I hope it's not just do you like me? check yes or no since that would make her development seem stupid and even demean her character in my opinion.

[lovecakecookies]

we can only hope she won't stay in the dark until the end

Yeah, but she just might.. :rolleyes:
remember the whole "So that's why they did it ending?" :eyespin:

[Baixinho]

Only the show can say who is right and who is wrong. I was, with Sol, amongst the ones who said that shirley will not die. I argued about that many times. I always thought that lelouch will save her if she was ever in danger.

The show talked: She died.

Wow, wow wow. Ok I think this is getting out of hand.

Will Kallen die by Suzaku's hand next episode? Maybe, but the chances are maybe 5%, and I'm being generous. She is one of the main 4, and most probably none of them will die before the last episode. We are not even sure one of them will die at all in the end.

Granted we were not shown last episode that Lelouch was trying hard to prevent her from being hurt. But come on : she is the pilot of the only KMF that can fight evenly with freaking Suzaku. Who/what on hell could do her any harm? Do you really think that Fuji's explosion could have hit her by surprise, when even Ougi had time to see it coming and think about Viletta? Kallen had time to see it coming and jump to the Ikaruga's rescue. If anything, it proves that she would never have been caught by surprise by the explosion.
The very safest place for Kallen is in her Guren : as long as Suzaku doesn't fight her, there is nothing that can harm her.

Plus, would you really think that Lelouch would be ok to let her die when he specifically asked her to "live on" in ep 19, something that up to now he said only to CC, Suzaku and Shirley?

I also saw someone in this thread saying that Nunnally was Lelouch enemy, and implying that because of that Lelouch would be ready to kill her off. Are you kidding me? Lelouch would be ready to kill the very person he did all of that for? There is just no way Lelouch could do any harm to Nunally of all people....

So please, if you're actually talking about the possibility of Kallen dying in 24, please make it sound like it is as much an unlikely possibility as it actually is.

And please don't bring in Shirley's death as an argument : her death served the plot and it was closure to her character. Kallen's death by Suzaku's hand would be of no use to the plot at all and would not close anything in regards to her character. You just can not compare them.

And sumimasen Narona, I was not targeting you personally with this post.

[morbosfist]

Honestly I want Kallen continue to share opposite views from Lelouch eg his methods or his plan or whatever even through the end. What exactly is she trying to understand about Lelouch? I hope it's not just do you like me? check yes or no since that would make her development seem stupid and even demean her character in my opinion.She's wanted to know what he thinks of her since episode 7 at least. That isn't going to change. She obviously wants to know what he's up to, as well, because another point with her has been being left out of the loop. She should get at least one of those answers in the next episode, if not both by the last.

[Narona]

Wow, wow wow. Ok I think this is getting out of hand.


You got me all wrong. I didn't make a comparison with shirley's death. I said that I was sure that shirley will live, but she died. Meaning that I could be wrong about my opinion of what will happen in 24. And so, that I will not say to morbo that he is wrong and I am right.

[Baixinho]

You got me all wrong. I didn't make a comparison with shirley's death. I said that I was sure that shirley will live, but she died. Meaning that I could be wrong about my opinion of what will happen in 24. And so, that I will not say to morbo that he is wrong and I am right.

Ok, autant pour moi, fair enough.

Sorry, I'm just back from a party, I may not have my mind as clear as I would like :heh:

[Sports72Xtrm]

Granted we were not shown last episode that Lelouch was trying hard to prevent her from being hurt. But come on : she is the pilot of the only KMF that can fight evenly with freaking Suzaku. Who/what on hell could do her any harm? Do you really think that Fuji's explosion could have hit her by surprise, when even Ougi had time to see it coming and think about Viletta? Kallen had time to see it coming and jump to the Ikaruga's rescue. If anything, it proves that she would never have been caught by surprise by the explosion.
The very safest place for Kallen is in her Guren : as long as Suzaku doesn't fight her, there is nothing that can harm her.
Well I feel that Kallen will "lose" because she is not as good as Suzaku and his albion.

Plus, would you really think that Lelouch would be ok to let her die when he specifically asked her to "live on" in ep 19, something that up to now he said only to CC, Suzaku and Shirley?
I also saw someone in this thread saying that Nunnally was Lelouch enemy, and implying that because of that Lelouch would be ready to kill her off. Are you kidding me? Lelouch would be ready to kill the very person he did all of that for? There is just no way Lelouch could do any harm to Nunally of all people....
No I don't think he would be ok about it but really they did agree not to hide behind aesthtics of morals and frienships to hinder their goal so if he gets a little upset and tries something to deviate from the plan Suzaku should just smack him across the face and wake his ass up. If anything, they'd have a Charles V.V. relationship. Hating each other but still forced to work with one another to further their goals. Lelouch seems to have few allies at the current moment so I hope his pride won't get in the way of his judgment.

So please, if you're actually talking about the possibility of Kallen dying in 24, please make it sound like it is as much an unlikely possibility as it actually is.
I agree that it is improbable that she will die since she is a popular character and thus not die due to "plot armor" supposedly since she is somehow integral to show. But I still have a feeling that she will lose to Suzaku.

And please don't bring in Shirley's death as an argument : her death served the plot and it was closure to her character. Kallen's death by Suzaku's hand would be of no use to the plot at all and would not close anything in regards to her character. You just can not compare them.
It depends on how she goes. Everything is about circumstance.

[Sports72Xtrm]

She's wanted to know what he thinks of her since episode 7 at least. That isn't going to change. She obviously wants to know what he's up to, as well, because another point with her has been being left out of the loop. She should get at least one of those answers in the next episode, if not both by the last.

Very well then lets see if she gets her answer. Maybe one answer she will like and other she won't.

[youngde]

Quick comments on questions going on in this thread.

1. Will Suzaku beat Kallen?
Honestly, I don't know. His 'Live On' Geass seems to give him the advantage if Kallen starts to win, but then this show is made for reversals. The majority of me is thinking either way, the fight will end before it reaches it's conclusion.

2. Will Suzaku kill Kallen?
I don't know this either. He was willing to spare Gino, and back when they were friends, Suzaku was far kinder to Kallen than he's ever been to Gino. They've had a serious fallen out, but Suzaku feels at least partially remorseful for that. Then again, with his new attitude, I'm not sure. I'd like to think that if Kallen learns about the 'promise' suggested in the Animedia conversation (which occurs to me might be the promise Lelouch made a long time ago about destroying Britannia), she will try to reason with Suzaku (or vice versa).

3. Will she join with Lelouch?
Depends. If the Requiem involves the original goals of destroying Britannia (which is likely if the promise above is what they're trying to do) and create a peaceful world, then yes. She may not approve of how he got to this point, but that would be rendered somewhat moot in the face of a guy that wants to drop bombs on all the UFN capitals. I'm also assuming that at the very least, the senior BKs must also discover Schneizel's deception since Tohdoh is attacking the Damocles in the opening. (I'm pretty sure Gino and Anya would join with the revelation that Schneizel going to bomb the crap out of the world too.)

4. Will she get her questions answered?
I seriously hope so. Otherwise, why develop her character to the point where she loves Lelouch, just to leave it hanging the final couple episodes. I'm not saying the Lelouch needs to say he loves her, but he should at least admit that he has feelings for her and told her to 'live on' because he didn't want her to die with him. That he refused to answer her in ep22 because he didn't want her to walk the "Demon's path."

At any rate, she seems to be questioning Suzaku (and possibly Lelouch) in the Animedia conversation, so we'll just have to wait and see.

[linkinstreet]

At any rate, she seems to be questioning Suzaku (and possibly Lelouch) in the Animedia conversation, so we'll just have to wait and see.She was questioning Lelouch and why he had a promise with Suzaku

[kir44n]

My thoughts on younde's 4 current questions

1. Will Suzaku beat Kallen?
The stars point to no. Of course, astrology is hardly a confirmed science XD. I find it unlikely that he will beat Kallen however. Considering all other information beaten to death, I will simply rely on the data provided by Taniguchi in that Kallen will be "essential" to the story. Which I would find difficult if she were dead/unconscious/stuck in a useless KMF . On a flip side, due to Zero Requiem, I don't believe Kallen will beat Suzaku either. This pretty much leaves us with tie/interruption. Of course, this is for a given value for the term "beat", which will vary person to person.

2.Will Suzaku kill Kallen?
Covered in question 1. It may however be related to him performing a barrel roll.

3. Will she join Lelouch?
I personally find there to be too many possible variables to give a reasonable expectation for this answer. She may get an answer she likes and joins him. She may get an answer she doesn't like and doesn't join him. Lelouch may avoid the whole problem by turning Schneizel into the bad-guy first. Cornelia may help Lelouch dodge the problem by exposing Schneizel. Nunally may start spamming Fleija's again prompting them to ditch what they're doing to get away. C.C. may order a pizza. The list goes on

4. Will she get her question answered?
Ever, or in 24? Ever, I believe so. In 24. Weeeeeeeeell. Again, too many variables. Depending on exactly what else is going on, it may or may not happen. Whether or not she gets the answer could possibly determine the outcome of question 3, so this technically could be called a variable for that whole mess right there -_-.

All in all, it looks like 24 may deal with alot of issues surrounding Kallen as a character...or may stall us again (though, for the final time).

[FoxxFireArt]

we can only hope she won't stay in the dark until the end

I kind of covered this topic in a posting I dis in the Spoiler and Speculation thread.

This is that posting:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1914235&postcount=9649

I think that after Anya calls Suzaku out that we might get some answers.

[Sports72Xtrm]

[QUOTE=kir44n;1915161]My thoughts on younde's 4 current questions

1. Will Suzaku beat Kallen?
The stars point to no. Of course, astrology is hardly a confirmed science XD. I find it unlikely that he will beat Kallen however. Considering all other information beaten to death, I will simply rely on the data provided by Taniguchi in that Kallen will be "essential" to the story. Which I would find difficult if she were dead/unconscious/stuck in a useless KMF . On a flip side, due to Zero Requiem, I don't believe Kallen will beat Suzaku either. This pretty much leaves us with tie/interruption. Of course, this is for a given value for the term "beat", which will vary person to person.

Taniguchi said Kallen is "essential" to the story? Is this from an interview? Source please.

[morbosfist]

Taniguchi said Kallen is "essential" to the story? Is this from an interview? Source please.It's in a magazine scan from around Turn 13 or so.

[Tokkan]

Yeah, Taniguchi said that Kallen is an essential character, and this was in an interview about the bonds Lelouch has.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

1. Will Suzaku beat Kallen?
Honestly, I don't know. His 'Live On' Geass seems to give him the advantage if Kallen starts to win, but then this show is made for reversals. The majority of me is thinking either way, the fight will end before it reaches it's conclusion.

The live geass is an ifty thing. It's simply all in the mind and Suzaku has found a way to turn it around to his advantage which makes him even more dangerous. However, this only comes in if the opponent has the upper hand on him. In all the fights he had with Kallen after his live geass, it never triggered (except when she was about to kill him). It just makes his determination even harder and that makes for a hardy opponent but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't appear.


2. Will Suzaku kill Kallen?
I don't know this either. He was willing to spare Gino, and back when they were friends, Suzaku was far kinder to Kallen than he's ever been to Gino. They've had a serious fallen out, but Suzaku feels at least partially remorseful for that. Then again, with his new attitude, I'm not sure. I'd like to think that if Kallen learns about the 'promise' suggested in the Animedia conversation (which occurs to me might be the promise Lelouch made a long time ago about destroying Britannia), she will try to reason with Suzaku (or vice versa).

Even with this new attitude he still spared Gino. I do not see a reason why he would not. The hatred between Kallen and Suzaku is one-sided. If she's going to learn something it may be from Suzaku himself while they are fighting.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Interesting. I'm interested in how it will be developed.

[morbosfist]

The hate may be one-sided, but Suzaku certainly isn't willing to cut her any slack as he did Gino. He was willing to shoot her without so much as a word in Turn 6, he made the effort to have her thrown in Britannian prison in Turn 11, and he was willing to drug her (a former friend, so it shows how little he thinks of their friendship). Even in 18 he's willing to blast first and then tell her to move.

[FoxxFireArt]

The hate may be one-sided, but Suzaku certainly isn't willing to cut her any slack as he did Gino. He was willing to shoot her without so much as a word in Turn 6, he made the effort to have her thrown in Britannian prison in Turn 11, and he was willing to drug her (a former friend, so it shows how little he thinks of their friendship). Even in 18 he's willing to blast first and then tell her to move.

Gino wasn't much of a threat to Lancelot Albion. Guren SEITEN is a major risk. I still don't think either of them die in this battle. It's the Animedia conversation that has me thinking. I don't know who will win the battle though.

[morbosfist]

Gino wasn't much of a threat to Lancelot Albion. Guren SEITEN is a major risk. I still don't think either of them die in this battle. It's the Animedia conversation that has me thinking. I don't know who will win the battle though.Still it can be disabled without killing her, and Suzaku isn't going to show her that kind of leeway. Neither will win, probably. If Kallen wins, it'll have to be simply by removing Suzaku from the fight. Otherwise he's a briquette. It's the same with Suzaku. Unless something interrupts them, these two are liable to fight to the death.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Still it can be disabled without killing her, and Suzaku isn't going to show her that kind of leeway. Neither will win, probably. If Kallen wins, it'll have to be simply by removing Suzaku from the fight. Otherwise he's a briquette. It's the same with Suzaku. Unless something interrupts them, these two are liable to fight to the death.

And yet both seem to be protected from death by "plot armor" quite a quandary

[morbosfist]

And yet both seem to be protected from death by "plot armor" quite a quandaryIndeed it is, hence timely interruption is the most likely outcome, disappointing though such an outcome may be for determining who's a better pilot.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Still it can be disabled without killing her, and Suzaku isn't going to show her that kind of leeway. Neither will win, probably. If Kallen wins, it'll have to be simply by removing Suzaku from the fight. Otherwise he's a briquette. It's the same with Suzaku. Unless something interrupts them, these two are liable to fight to the death.

The thing with Knighmare combat is that they do take well care of their pilots, not to mention it isn't difficult to disable knightmares, with the ejection system...

Oh wait does Lancelot have an ejection system? I know the old one didn't but the new one?

[morbosfist]

The thing with Knighmare combat is that they do take well care of their pilots, not to mention it isn't difficult to disable knightmares, with the ejection system...

Oh wait does Lancelot have an ejection system? I know the old one didn't but the new one?The Guren seems to. Not so sure about the Lancelot. I wouldn't put it past Lloyd to have forgotten again. As for disabling, cutting off the arms or wings would be enough. If they can't fight or fly, there's no reason to worry.

[youngde]

Still it can be disabled without killing her, and Suzaku isn't going to show her that kind of leeway. Neither will win, probably. If Kallen wins, it'll have to be simply by removing Suzaku from the fight. Otherwise he's a briquette. It's the same with Suzaku. Unless something interrupts them, these two are liable to fight to the death.

Thing is Kallen is 'essential' to the plot, while Suzaku is clearly doing something in ep25 since he's in the episode summary, so neither one of them should be disabled. Further, the Animedia article suggests that Lelouch, Suzaku, Kallen, Gino and Anya are all in the same general area having a conversation about the 'promise,' which would (given the location of everyone at the start of the episode) almost have to be after Suzaku and Kallen's fight.

(Incidentally, anyone think the 'promise' being referred to is Lelouch's promise to destroy Britannia waaaaaaaaaaay back when he and Suzaku were kids.)

[youngde]

Oh wait does Lancelot have an ejection system? I know the old one didn't but the new one?

One would hope that they finally got around to putting an ejection system on that thing. :heh:

[morbosfist]

Thing is Kallen is 'essential' to the plot, while Suzaku is clearly doing something in ep25 since he's in the episode summary, so neither one of them should be disabled. Further, the Animedia article suggests that Lelouch, Suzaku, Kallen, Gino and Anya are all in the same general area having a conversation about the 'promise,' which would (given the location of everyone at the start of the episode) almost have to be after Suzaku and Kallen's fight.

(Incidentally, anyone think the 'promise' being referred to is Lelouch's promise to destroy Britannia waaaaaaaaaaay back when he and Suzaku were kids.)Being disabled wouldn't matter once Damocles was gone. Knightmares can be fixed. They can call a cease-fire or something once the Black Knights find themselves outnumbered.

I doubt the promise is that one from way back. Britannia might as well be destroyed for all that is left of it after Lelouch came in.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Ejection seat wouldn't really matter since in war I don't think pilots mind murdering ejected enemy pilots. That and Lloyd doesn't care about life. Thus I assume putting in an ejection seat would be useless.

[FoxxFireArt]

Thing is Kallen is 'essential' to the plot, while Suzaku is clearly doing something in ep25 since he's in the episode summary, so neither one of them should be disabled. Further, the Animedia article suggests that Lelouch, Suzaku, Kallen, Gino and Anya are all in the same general area having a conversation about the 'promise,' which would (given the location of everyone at the start of the episode) almost have to be after Suzaku and Kallen's fight.

(Incidentally, anyone think the 'promise' being referred to is Lelouch's promise to destroy Britannia waaaaaaaaaaay back when he and Suzaku were kids.)

The fact that Anya can tell from Kallen is in love with Lelouch from watching them does seem to imply that Kallen is being very emotional in this scene. So far Anya has never even met Kallen before. It does feel from the conversation that Kallen isn't going to let Lelouch go without some kind of answer.

[lovecakecookies]

Ejection seat wouldn't really matter since in war I don't think pilots mind murdering ejected enemy pilots. That and Lloyd doesn't care about life. Thus I assume putting in an ejection seat would be useless.

Not even Suzaku's? wasn't he telling him to run away from Guren in episode 18? :confused:

[morbosfist]

Not even Suzaku's? wasn't he telling him to run away from Guren in episode 18? :confused:Because the Lancelot was going to get trashed and he knew it.

[lovecakecookies]

Because the Lancelot was going to get trashed and he knew it.

Well, that was part of it.. I would think he cares about Suzaku somewhat.. but I could be wrong

Interesting. I'm interested in how it will be developed.

About being essential? So are we considering nothing really can be considered as such..

[morbosfist]

Well, that was part of it.. I would think he cares about Suzaku somewhat.. but I could be wrongHe cares about Suzaku as a part. His most telling line is in episode 18 (first season). Schneizel is about to kill Zero and Suzaku, but Lloyd's first concern is the Lancelot.

About being essential? So are we considering nothing really can be considered as such..What exactly could past Turn 11. The talks with Nunnally, kicking Suzaku's ass, getting pushed away not once by twice by Lelouch (for her sake)?

[Dandylion]

The hate may be one-sided, but Suzaku certainly isn't willing to cut her any slack as he did Gino. He was willing to shoot her without so much as a word in Turn 6, he made the effort to have her thrown in Britannian prison in Turn 11, and he was willing to drug her (a former friend, so it shows how little he thinks of their friendship). Even in 18 he's willing to blast first and then tell her to move.
You think she gives two shits about their friend after Stage 23 and its not like she was trying not to kill him in all their battles, in case you forgot

[FoxxFireArt]

Well, that was part of it.. I would think he cares about Suzaku somewhat.. but I could be wrong



About being essential? So are we considering nothing really can be considered as such..

It is interesting that the summaries talk about Kallen and Suzaku fighting in this episode, but the preview only shows Kallen in the Guren facing down a helpless Lelouch.

[morbosfist]

You think she gives two shits about their friend after Stage 23 and its not like she was trying not to kill him in all their battles, in case you forgotI didn't say she wasn't. The line is about what Suzaku feels about their friendship. Don't try to start an argument about something I wasn't talking about.

[lovecakecookies]

It is interesting that the summaries talk about Kallen and Suzaku fighting in this episode, but the preview only shows Kallen in the Guren facing down a helpless Lelouch.

I know, I pointed that out, but someone said they never show the best in the preview.. which I agree

[Dandylion]

[QUOTE=kir44n;1915161]My thoughts on younde's 4 current questions

1. Will Suzaku beat Kallen?
The stars point to no. Of course, astrology is hardly a confirmed science XD. I find it unlikely that he will beat Kallen however. Considering all other information beaten to death, I will simply rely on the data provided by Taniguchi in that Kallen will be "essential" to the story. Which I would find difficult if she were dead/unconscious/stuck in a useless KMF . On a flip side, due to Zero Requiem, I don't believe Kallen will beat Suzaku either. This pretty much leaves us with tie/interruption. Of course, this is for a given value for the term "beat", which will vary person to person.

Taniguchi said Kallen is "essential" to the story? Is this from an interview? Source please.
Those words don't seem relevant with these last two episodes coming up and she still couldn't read trough Lelouch lies like everyone else

[FoxxFireArt]

I know, I pointed that out, but someone said they never show the best in the preview.. which I agree

Last preview showed Lelouch's reaction to seeing Nunnally. I always thought that was what he was reacting to.

[lovecakecookies]

[QUOTE=Sports72Xtrm;1915177]
Those words don't seem relevant with these last two episodes coming up and she still couldn't read trough Lelouch lies like everyone else

ok?

Exactly... so either

a) hasn't happened yet
b) the director lied

[Dandylion]

It is interesting that the summaries talk about Kallen and Suzaku fighting in this episode, but the preview only shows Kallen in the Guren facing down a helpless Lelouch.
Maybe that's where he steps in to save him? And the battle begins

[Dandylion]

[QUOTE=Dandylion;1915291]

ok?

Exactly... so either

a) hasn't happened yet
b) he lied
Uh, what? I was referring to how is she essential at this point

[morbosfist]

Maybe that's where he steps in to save him? And the battle beginshe won't attack her while she's in the Avalon's hanger. He'd be liable to blow up the ship and kill Lelouch.

Uh, what? I was referring to how is she essential at this pointAnd she can still be essential. Just because she didn't see through his silence does not mean her role is over, which is why she's sitting in the hanger with her finger in the trigger while crying.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Those words don't seem relevant with these last two episodes coming up and she still couldn't read trough Lelouch lies like everyone else

Well two episodes can be enough time to pull out a wtf moment for Kallen. Though Taniguchi's line is pretty vague I don't even know if her essential moment happened yet. What could she possibly do? Is it she gets Lelouch off his path? Kills Lelouch? Gets killed and somehow affect Lelouch? Or did he mean their bond is essential which is vague in itself.

[lovecakecookies]

[QUOTE=lovecakecookies;1915294]
Uh, what? I was referring to how is she essential at this point

I know.. and I said the director

either was lying to us.... or it just hasn't happened yet.. .. because like you said how is she essential at this point?

Well two episodes can be enough time to pull out a wtf moment for Kallen. Though Taniguchi's line is pretty vague I don't even know if her essential moment happened yet. What could she possibly do? Is it she gets Lelouch off his path? Kills Lelouch? Gets killed and somehow affect Lelouch? Or did he mean their bond is essential which is vague in itself.

That's what we are all wondering buddy..

[Dandylion]

he won't attack her while she's in the Avalon's hanger. He'd be liable to blow up the ship and kill Lelouch.

And she can still be essential. Just because she didn't see through his silence does not mean her role is over, which is why she's sitting in the hanger with her finger in the trigger while crying.
drags her out of the ship with the slash harken when she is about to claw him with the radiation arm, besides if she's on the ship then its already on the ground

[yvj]

Well two episodes can be enough time to pull out a wtf moment for Kallen. Though Taniguchi's line is pretty vague I don't even know if her essential moment happened yet. What could she possibly do? Is it she gets Lelouch off his path? Kills Lelouch? Gets killed and somehow affect Lelouch? Or did he mean their bond is essential which is vague in itself.

Welcome to the world of Kallen fans

[morbosfist]

drags her out of the ship with the slash harken when she is about to claw him with the radiation arm, besides if she's on the ship then its already on the groundThe Lancelot isn't any stronger than the Guren. He wouldn't be able to drag her out. Also, the Avalon is flying and so can the Guren, hence it will not be on the ground when she comes smashing through the hanger.

[Dandylion]

The Lancelot isn't any stronger than the Guren. He wouldn't be able to drag her out. Also, the Avalon is flying and so can the Guren, hence it will not be on the ground when she comes smashing through the hanger.
I never said it was stronger I said before she would decide to kill him based on his response he could break in and pull her out the way with the slash harken by wrapping them around her claw and pulling her away from Lelouch. Also from the extended preview we see Tamaki defending the Avalon on the ground so obviously it must of crashed.

[FoxxFireArt]

Well two episodes can be enough time to pull out a wtf moment for Kallen. Though Taniguchi's line is pretty vague I don't even know if her essential moment happened yet. What could she possibly do? Is it she gets Lelouch off his path? Kills Lelouch? Gets killed and somehow affect Lelouch? Or did he mean their bond is essential which is vague in itself.

You'd think Kallen is going to be someone to Lelouch and something big. Otherwise why is it dragged out to the very end? Their relationship was dragged aout and teased all season. Two near kisses and then a sudden kiss near the very end of the series. She may even be the last girl to kiss him in the series. That kiss was even marked by the soft, beautiful chorus. I think that's the first time that song has been used in the series.
In the next episode she has her best chance to kill Lelouch, but she doesn't (for whatever reason). In the extended preview she is shown in the Guren talking with tears in her eyes.
There is that Animedia conversation where she still needs to hear an answer from Lelouch. That shows that despite everything there is something in her that needs to hear from him.

There is even Kallen's Gum Card line. It seems like everything involving Kallen is surrounded by the subject of love.

Seems odd they would draw things out for a flop ending.

[Dream_Traveller]

Er, nope. Tamaki's in front of a still-floating Avalon.

[Tokkan]

I never said it was stronger I said before she would decide to kill him based on his response he could break in and pull her out the way with the slash harken by wrapping them around her claw and pulling her away from Lelouch. Also from the extended preview we see Tamaki defending the Avalon on the ground so obviously it must of crashed.

... It's not on the ground, it's just below him.

[FoxxFireArt]

Er, nope. Tamaki's in front of a still-floating Avalon.

Tamaki has really surprised me most of all. Kallen has a lot more reason to still have some level of belief in Lelouch. Tamaki has next to no reason, but he always seems so heartbroken about Zero.

[Dandylion]

Just rewatched it, my mistake looked like it was on the ground but its still floating

[morbosfist]

I never said it was stronger I said before she would decide to kill him based on his response he could break in and pull her out the way with the slash harken by wrapping them around her claw and pulling her away from Lelouch.And then she just cuts the cords with her MVS. There's no way he'll attack her on the ship. It's just too dangerous.

[Dandylion]

And then she just cuts the cords with her MVS. There's no way he'll attack her on the ship. It's just too dangerous.
.....Well I got nothing, she has to come off one way or another:confused:

[morbosfist]

.....Well I got nothing, she has to come off one way or another:confused:The most likely scenario is that she simply isn't going to do it.

[lovecakecookies]

.....Well I got nothing, she has to come off one way or another:confused:

Maybe she leaves on her own after realzing she cant kill him?
Is there any possibility that C.C can attack/stop Kallen in the hangar?

[Dandylion]

The most likely scenario is that she simply isn't going to do it.
Well than how's Lelouch going to escape and where are she and Suzaku gonna duke it out

[morbosfist]

Maybe she leaves on her own after realzing she cant kill him?
Is there any possibility that C.C can attack/stop Kallen in the hangar?C.C. could always use the Lancelot to ram the Guren, but Kallen's pretty fast and it would be risky to try it. There's also mindrape, but C.C. doesn't appear to be close enough in that scene.

Well than how's Lelouch going to escape and where are she and Suzaku gonna duke it outShe lets him and outside the hanger.

[FoxxFireArt]

C.C. could always use the Lancelot to ram the Guren, but Kallen's pretty fast and it would be risky to try it. There's also mindrape, but C.C. doesn't appear to be close enough in that scene.

I don't think Kallen is going to let C.C. get close enough to her.

I'm not even sure the whole mind thing could work through KMFs. There was that reaction with Anya, but I think that's different.

Maybe if Kallen is distracted enough by Lelouch. C.C. can get into her Lancelot, but I'm thinking she will have to cross over Lelouch. Very risky.

[youngde]

Well two episodes can be enough time to pull out a wtf moment for Kallen. Though Taniguchi's line is pretty vague I don't even know if her essential moment happened yet. What could she possibly do? Is it she gets Lelouch off his path? Kills Lelouch? Gets killed and somehow affect Lelouch? Or did he mean their bond is essential which is vague in itself.

Kills Lelouch: I'd say unlikely since she has a prime opportunity in the preview and either can't do it or is interrupted before hand.

Gets killed and somehow affect Lelouch: Possible, but the Animedia conversation implies that she, Suzaku, Lelouch, Gino and Anya are all together at some point, which would almost have to be towards the end of the episode, so it would have to be after that. I would assume after that conversation, Schneizel's intention's become clear, so if she died, it would probably be to defeat Schneizel. There really wouldn't be much time for it to affect Lelouch or the plot.

Saves Lelouch from his path: I think this is most likely since the Animedia conversation, the gum line and the words of the director himself imply (or outright state) that she loves him. To be certain, she'll want to defeat Schneizel, but she'll want to save Lelouch as well.

Or it could be something so out there, so amazing that our tiny human brains cannot even begin to comprehend it. Or it could be a total mindscrew. :p

youngde, signing off.

[kir44n]

Like I was saying, Pretty much the only things we can reliably (and this term is being used loosely) count on is that Suzaku & Kallen won't kill each other. We have confirmed information in regards to Kallen's "essentialness", the gumlines, and suzaku's turn 25 plot armor, but said information only somewhat limits the things that can happen in regards to

1)What lelouch will do when confronted
2) How lelouch gets away from kallen (not necessarily the same as 1)
3) what makes everyone start heading to damocles like its the hottest club in town
4)whether or not kallen will recieve resolution or another stall
5) What zero requiem does and is it evil

[scifijimmy]

Saves Lelouch from his path: I think this is most likely since the Animedia conversation, the gum line and the words of the director himself imply (or outright state) that she loves him. To be certain, she'll want to defeat Schneizel, but she'll want to save Lelouch as well.

I think this is the most logical with the given info. However, will Lelouch reciprocate her feelings, or even able to acknowledge them.:confused:

[youngde]

I think this is the most logical with the given info. However, will Lelouch reciprocate her feelings, or even able to acknowledge them.:confused:

Well, he pushed her away at first because he wanted her to avoid the 'Demon's path' or to keep her out of the danger he was going to face. But if she's there anyway, what the hell? Answer her damn question of "What am I to you?" Lelouch, ya big pussy. :D

[morbosfist]

She keeps coming back to him one way or another, and he obviously feels something for her. He may not say it now, but I think he will by 25.

[dec4rhapsody]

Huh, my attempt at youngde's 4questions (after hours of meaningless PSP nonsense...so forgive my poor grammar)


1. Will Suzaku beat Kallen?
Most probably. Or Suzaku will get the upper hand before they get interrupted.

2. Will Suzaku kill Kallen?
Yes if she becomes an obstacle in their plan, not that Suzaku would succeed in killing her for sure, but IMO he won't have mercy if she is in the way.

Let's change the question a little bit:

Will Lelouch let Suzaku kill Kallen?

My answer remains yes. If Nunnally doesn't get any special treatments from Lelouch, I can't see how Kallen's case will differ.
Hmm, I think that their "sayounara"s indicate such a possibility, that they won't let their feelings toward each other (no matter what it actually is) interfere with their plans/ideals/goals.
To Kallen it means that she has to take the "enemy of the world" down.
To Lelouch it's quite the same, (not that he is eager to do so~)

3. Will she join with Lelouch?
Depends on what Zero Requiem is.
But it's OK that she can side with his forces when Schneizel's masks are ripped off.
I mean she can join him in defeating Schneizel but still disagree with/or have no clues about Zero Requiem.

4. Will she get her questions answered?
I do hope that at least her "what do I mean to you" gets resolved, and it'd better be sth positive. I just can't see Lelouch having a "Huh?" or "WTF?" face at the end when this question pops up again.
Speaking of "importance" to Lelouch, it's safe to say that Kallen is somewhere near Suzaku...

[FoxxFireArt]

She keeps coming back to him one way or another, and he obviously feels something for her. He may not say it now, but I think he will by 25.

I agree. If he has no feelings for her why not push her away with a lie. He's choosing to say nothing. He even lied bold faced to Nunnally.

[morbosfist]

Damn, people just have so much faith in Suzaku winning. It's much more fun to cheer for the underdog. That live Geass is just begging to be beat by someone, and I think Kallen, properly motivated, could do it.

[scifijimmy]

I agree. If he has no feelings for her why not push her away with a lie. He's choosing to say nothing. He even lied bold faced to Nunnally.

Good point. However should Lelouch take the Code from C.C. he might not be able to acknowledge Kallen's feelings.:(

[morbosfist]

They're not going to leave Lelouch immortal at the end of this. It would defeat the purpose of removing Geass and wouldn't be a valid end to the story. There'd be the lingering question of Lelouch spreading Geass in order to die.

[Orpheus]

Damn, people just have so much faith in Suzaku winning. It's much more fun to cheer for the underdog. That live Geass is just begging to be beat by someone, and I think Kallen, properly motivated, could do it.
I don't see how she can outdo Bismarck's hax, but that would be awesome if she got to beat him.

[morbosfist]

I don't see how she can outdo Bismarck's hax, but that would be awesome if she got to beat him.Bismarck was piloting an inferior machine, and his Geass just covered the gap until live Geass widened it. Kallen's piloting a machine with equal specs. A little bit of speed will only be a slight advantage for Suzaku, and not one that couldn't be overcome.

[youngde]

Damn, people just have so much faith in Suzaku winning. It's much more fun to cheer for the underdog. That live Geass is just begging to be beat by someone, and I think Kallen, properly motivated, could do it.

If it makes you feel any better, I feel it could be 50/50 either way. They've always been about even. They have even machines. Suzaku's Geass would appear to give him an advantage, but this show has a habit of completely going the opposite way you'd assume so much, I think Kallen can pull an 'upset.' :)

[Kusaja]

Damn, people just have so much faith in Suzaku winning. It's much more fun to cheer for the underdog. That live Geass is just begging to be beat by someone, and I think Kallen, properly motivated, could do it.

That's what the fanboy inside me is doing, to be completely honest, but I'm also pragmatic enough as to not let myself get carried away beforehand.

I don't think Suzaku is invincible, just extremely hard to beat...which makes it a difficult but certain win for him, or at least a tie (because of mutual damage or an interruption), much more likely under normal conditions, machine specs being equal...unless an external factor of sorts tips the scale in favor of Kallen, whether it's a distraction, her own motivation to win, Suzaku underestimating his opponent and overestimating himself, cheating or something too random to predict (like many things in this show). I still think the chances are 60/40 in his favor though (a very possible tie aside).

I don't think Suzaku would die, even if a crazy enough scenario ends up going against him...the "Live" Geass has to count for something, even in the unlikely event standard luck leaves him hanging. And even if he wins, there's still a lot of ways this can turn out.

[FoxxFireArt]

That's what the fanboy inside me is doing, to be completely honest, but I'm also pragmatic enough as to not let myself get carried away beforehand.

I don't think Suzaku is invincible, just extremely hard to beat...which makes it a difficult but certain win for him, or at least a tie (because of mutual damage or an interruption), much more likely under normal conditions, machine specs being equal...unless an external factor of sorts tips the scale in favor of Kallen, whether it's a distraction, her own motivation to win, Suzaku underestimating his opponent and overestimating himself, cheating or something too random to predict (like many things in this show). I still think the chances are 60/40 in his favor though (a very possible tie aside).

I don't think Suzaku would die, even if a crazy enough scenario ends up going against him...the "Live" Geass has to count for something, even in the unlikely event standard luck leaves him hanging. And even if he wins, there's still a lot of ways this can turn out.

Mechs only seem invincible on their first fight. It's almost the rule in the series. It's after that is everything up in the air.

Kind of like in Dragon Ball. Yes, a character will reach just an insane level of power and just crush the villain like they are nothing, but then another villain comes along and whoops them like they are nothing. Like when Vegitta first faced the androids after going Super Saiyan and they just owned his ass. when the second series Android 17 and 18 came along.

[Kyero Fox]

all I have to say is that Kallen better not die. Ever...or the anime can go kill its self XD not really, but I Shall SMITE THE CREATORS FOR BEING SO CRUEL!

[scifijimmy]

Mechs only seem invincible on their first fight. It's almost the rule in the series. It's after that is everything up in the air.


Then its a good thing that both Kallen and Suzaku have been in combat before with their current grade of KMF's.:heh:

[X_Danny_X]

man i guess people are forgetting that Suzaku not only has to fight Kallen but he also has to fight Xing-Li, Anya, Gino and the BoK. I dont think his Albion will be 100% when he confronts Kallen. He has Jerimiah but they still are outgunned here and will not come unscratched.

So I am guessing that she will have the upper hand in the beginning because of that and only that, then because his Albion is somewhat wreck before the fight began, he has no choice to use Live Geass which brings out his full potential. I dont think it gives him any power boost or anything. It just allows him to function at his best. His skills are going to do the talking. When that happens he will start kicking her ass around, and then Lelouch will be secure to fight Schienzel. After that the others will join in again (BoK, Anya, Gino and Lelouch and Suzaku will have a talk with them

the writers made it a habit of making him superior to Kallen. So far he is the one that kept defeating her when they were pratically equal. The only times she defeated him was when she received an unexpected big upgrade.

Suzaku is more important to the plot now more so than Kallen, in the preview it said that Suzaku and Lelouch are unstoppable when they teamed up. It has to count for something.


Mechs only seem invincible on their first fight. It's almost the rule in the series. It's after that is everything up in the air.

Kind of like in Dragon Ball. Yes, a character will reach just an insane level of power and just crush the villain like they are nothing, but then another villain comes along and whoops them like they are nothing. Like when Vegitta first faced the androids after going Super Saiyan and they just owned his ass. when the second series Android 17 and 18 came along.

yes but Vegeta had a power up even after that, and certainly he would of defeated any android at that time.

Suzaku had the last power up so I expect him to be the strongest though of course he is outnumbed.

[Kusaja]

Mechs only seem invincible on their first fight. It's almost the rule in the series. It's after that is everything up in the air.

Kind of like in Dragon Ball. Yes, a character will reach just an insane level of power and just crush the villain like they are nothing, but then another villain comes along and whoops them like they are nothing. Like when Vegitta first faced the androids after going Super Saiyan and they just owned his ass. when the second series Android 17 and 18 came along.

That's all very true...but in this case, that aura of invincibility will have to drop now or never. It would be an all or nothing between two opponents who have a long history of rivalry, the most powerful mecha in the entire show as well as rather strong reasons to defeat each other...and we can't quite say who is the villain and thus destined to lose. :heh:

Suzaku is "playing" the villain, but is trying to actually save the world from the looks of things, and Kallen is fighting against what she perceives as "evil" while technically aiding the unknown cause of a charming sociopath...all while motivated by her conflicting feelings for Lelouch and her desire to either finally understand or stop him (whichever comes first, I guess).

In DBZ, sooner or later, you knew the good guys would win, even if it dragged out forever or the bad guys gained a temporary advantage and racked up a kill count. Here...well, there are almost no strict "good guys" or "bad guys", Schneizel aside.

Which is why a mere tie looks very possible in this case, an outright win aside...it wouldn't prevent Suzaku from fighting on for Zero Requiem, and Kallen would be free to do whatever else comes up next.

EDIT:


So I am guessing that she will have the upper hand in the beginning because of that and only that, then because his Albion is somewhat wreck before the fight began, he has no choice to use Live Geass which brings out his full potential. I dont think it gives him any power boost or anything. It just allows him to function at his best. His skills are going to do the talking. When that happens he will start kicking her ass around, and then Lelouch will be secure to fight Schienzel. After that the others will join in again (BoK, Anya, Gino and Lelouch and Suzaku will have a talk with them

the writers made it a habit of making him superior to Kallen. So far he is the one that kept defeating her when they were pratically equal. The only times she defeated him was when she received an unexpected big upgrade.


That's why I'm giving him the edge, since it's what past precedent would show, but he could still tie or, noticeably less likely, lose too.


Suzaku is more important to the plot now more so than Kallen, in the preview it said that Suzaku and Lelouch are unstoppable when they teamed up. It has to count for something.


They're almost certainly winning in the end, which isn't hard to see because of this "together we are unstoppable" deal...it's the precise path to that victory we don't know about.

[FoxxFireArt]

That's all very true...but in this case, that aura of invincibility will have to drop now or never. It would be an all or nothing between two opponents who have a long history of rivalry, the most powerful mecha in the entire show as well as rather strong reasons to defeat each other...and we can't quite say who is the villain and thus destined to lose. :heh:

Suzaku is "playing" the villain, but is trying to actually save the world from the looks of things, and Kallen is fighting against what she perceives as "evil" while technically aiding the unknown cause of a charming sociopath...all while motivated by her conflicting feelings for Lelouch and her desire to either finally understand or stop him (whichever comes first, I guess).

In DBZ, sooner or later, you knew the good guys would win, even if it dragged out forever or the bad guys gained a temporary advantage and racked up a kill count. Here...well, there are almost no strict "good guys" or "bad guys", Schneizel aside.

Which is why a mere tie looks very possible in this case...it wouldn't prevent Suzaku from fighting on for Zero Requiem, and Kallen would be free to do whatever else comes up next.

Well, in all honesty. We don't know why these two are fighting. Schneizel did betray his promise not to attack the hostages and is starting to show his true colors. If Cornelia is still alive (she's still registered as alive on the official site.) she could pass on the information about Schneizel's real plan.

I'm not so sure Suzaku is interested in saving the world as much as he is about clearing Euphy's name.
Makes me wonder why Kallen and Suzaku are fighting at such a late stage. Is Kallen out to Kill Lelouch, or is Kallen trying to get at Lelouch to stop this plan, and Suzaku is trying to keep her from interfering. Though that would imply she knows there is a plan to stop.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Well, in all honesty. We don't know why these two are fighting. Schneizel did betray his promise not to attack the hostages and is starting to show his true colors. If Cornelia is still alive (she's still registered as alive on the official site.) she could pass on the information about Schneizel's real plan.

I was under the impression that the official website is not connected to the writers or staff in any way so they follow whatever the show shows them. Therefore it is not something to rely on.


I'm not so sure Suzaku is interested in saving the world as much as he is about clearing Euphy's name.

He wants to change the world, that's always been his goal. Euphie just tagged along the way.

Though FLEIAs destructive force along with Lelouch's abolishment of the royal blood line should more than overshadow anything that Euphie's done to the point that I'd be surprised if people haven't forgotten about it already.

[Kusaja]

Well, in all honesty. We don't know why these two are fighting. Schneizel did betray his promise not to attack the hostages and is starting to show his true colors. If Cornelia is still alive (she's still registered as alive on the official site.) she could pass on the information about Schneizel's real plan.

I'm not so sure Suzaku is interested in saving the world as much as he is about clearing Euphy's name.
Makes me wonder why Kallen and Suzaku are fighting at such a late stage. Is Kallen out to Kill Lelouch, or is Kallen trying to get at Lelouch to stop this plan, and Suzaku is trying to keep her from interfering. Though that would imply she knows there is a plan to stop.

That or something equivalent is likely, but we don't know if this fight will occur before or after anything changes on that front either. It's one of the questions that does alter the context surrounding it, but hard to tell exactly how.

"Saving the world" is just shorthand, leaving out their specific motivations for doing so...the goal itself is still somewhat elusive to us, but it can't be a bad thing for the world, I'd say, compared to Schneizel's. Can't really tell if Euphie's name will be "cleared" as much as it will be "forgotten" by those who witness Suzaku's and Lelouch's actions, going by Lelouch's dialogue in 22, unless there's some sort of "worldwide revelation" component to the plan.

I think they could fight for any of those reasons, frankly...Suzaku's interference isn't hard to see in either scenario, whether Kallen is trying to kill Lelouch, wants to stop the plan or is just seeking more information to make up her mind. The results might vary though, because of this.

[morbosfist]

He wants to change the world, that's always been his goal. Euphie just tagged along the way.This I have to disagree with. Suzaku has only recently even been able to see past Japan. He's never thought globally, or he'd have more of a problem conquering places like the EU.

Back to the main topic, since I don't really feel like multi-quoting, this show has had a habit of making Suzaku better when it counts, usually by giving him extra tech, but overall their battles have been fairly even when piloting even machines. This is why I think it could go either way, with the obligatory lean toward Suzaku thanks to his hax live Geass and general plot shielding.

In this case, though, I can only see Suzaku being an obstacle for one reason or another. I cannot see Kallen trying but failing to kill Lelouch in the Avalon's hanger given how close she is, so whatever her motivation, it will have to be one that isn't detrimental yet still contradictory with Suzaku's. As such, motivation-wise, I think this will be the edge Kallen needs to get past him somehow. I seriously doubt she'll fry him, but she might be able to knock him out of the fight. There could always be outside interference by the other aces, too.

[Revolutionist]

This I have to disagree with. Suzaku has only recently even been able to see past Japan. He's never thought globally, or he'd have more of a problem conquering places like the EU.

Back to the main topic, since I don't really feel like multi-quoting, this show has had a habit of making Suzaku better when it counts, usually by giving him extra tech, but overall their battles have been fairly even when piloting even machines. This is why I think it could go either way, with the obligatory lean toward Suzaku thanks to his hax live Geass and general plot shielding.

In this case, though, I can only see Suzaku being an obstacle for one reason or another. I cannot see Kallen trying but failing to kill Lelouch in the Avalon's hanger given how close she is, so whatever her motivation, it will have to be one that isn't detrimental yet still contradictory with Suzaku's. As such, motivation-wise, I think this will be the edge Kallen needs to get past him somehow. I seriously doubt she'll fry him, but she might be able to knock him out of the fight. There could always be outside interference by the other aces, too.

The other aces will probably bite the dust, either to Jeremiah or Suzaku, or perhaps a nameless grunt. Episodes 24 and 25 were slaughter fests back in S1, I have a feeling it's gonna be the same this time. Xingke might die from that cough, or he might be killed. Todou and Chiba are 90% sure to die. Gino and Anya are sitting at 50%, Suzaku might spare Gino again or he might just take him out since he already gave a him a chance to join him and Gino declined.

[FoxxFireArt]

This I have to disagree with. Suzaku has only recently even been able to see past Japan. He's never thought globally, or he'd have more of a problem conquering places like the EU.

Back to the main topic, since I don't really feel like multi-quoting, this show has had a habit of making Suzaku better when it counts, usually by giving him extra tech, but overall their battles have been fairly even when piloting even machines. This is why I think it could go either way, with the obligatory lean toward Suzaku thanks to his hax live Geass and general plot shielding.

In this case, though, I can only see Suzaku being an obstacle for one reason or another. I cannot see Kallen trying but failing to kill Lelouch in the Avalon's hanger given how close she is, so whatever her motivation, it will have to be one that isn't detrimental yet still contradictory with Suzaku's. As such, motivation-wise, I think this will be the edge Kallen needs to get past him somehow. I seriously doubt she'll fry him, but she might be able to knock him out of the fight. There could always be outside interference by the other aces, too.

I'm starting to wonder. What if when Kallen shows up Lelouch doesn't fight back or try to get away? What if he just stands there and refuses to talk while she tries to get him to answer her? Like he's willing to let her kill him.

[morbosfist]

The other aces will probably bite the dust, either to Jeremiah or Suzaku, or perhaps a nameless grunt. Episodes 24 and 25 were slaughter fests back in S1, I have a feeling it's gonna be the same this time. Xingke might die from that cough, or he might be killed. Todou and Chiba are 90% sure to die. Gino and Anya are sitting at 50%, Suzaku might spare Gino again or he might just take him out since he already gave a him a chance to join him and Gino declined.Xingke is so likely to die that he'll probably live through this. Tohdoh I think might have lost an arm in that blast when he was next to the ship, maybe a leg too, so if that pans out he's pretty screwed. Chiba, if anything, is likely to die for Tohdoh or live to mourn. Gino's fighting Lelouch, so he's pretty likely to die, or at least get taken out. Anya's pretty far back as far as appearances go, but I suspect she'll do something surprising this episode.

I'm starting to wonder. What if when Kallen shows up Lelouch doesn't fight back or try to get away? What if he just stands there and refuses to talk while she tries to get him to answer her? Like he's willing to let her kill him.Then she won't. But I doubt Lelouch will keep quiet. He has things to do and Kallen won't go away, so he'll talk.

Morbosfist, I got an infringement for arguing with that idiot last night.... It wasn't even an arguement lol, he had no point to base off of. How bout you?Off-topic posts get infringements, too. I didn't get anything.

[FoxxFireArt]

Then she won't. But I doubt Lelouch will keep quiet. He has things to do and Kallen won't go away, so he'll talk.

I don't know. I could image him just standing there looking right at her, almost emotionless or a bit sad; not moving to get away, and not talking. Like he's ready to die. All the time he's demanding answers, tears in her eyes. When it looks like she's going to strike something happens to stop her.

[bladeofdarkness]

I'm starting to wonder. What if when Kallen shows up Lelouch doesn't fight back or try to get away? What if he just stands there and refuses to talk while she tries to get him to answer her? Like he's willing to let her kill him.

i raised that theory before
and they said i was mad. MAD I TELL YOU
also i cant see kallen killing an unarmed man on foot when she's using her giant mecah and he's right in front of her
just dont see it happen when you consider that she was mostly portreyed as an heroic character during the entire course of the show

[ZeroSama]

The other aces will probably bite the dust, either to Jeremiah or Suzaku, or perhaps a nameless grunt. Episodes 24 and 25 were slaughter fests back in S1, I have a feeling it's gonna be the same this time. Xingke might die from that cough, or he might be killed. Todou and Chiba are 90% sure to die. Gino and Anya are sitting at 50%, Suzaku might spare Gino again or he might just take him out since he already gave a him a chance to join him and Gino declined.

I'm agreeing with you 100% that it'll be a massacre of named characters.

1.SuzakuVKallen:Kallen will lose(but survive) while damaging the LA heavily allowing someone else(Xinge Ke/Anya) to finish it off.
2.LelouchVGino:Lelouch will win because Gino was retarded enough to bring a mech that relies solely on speed and agilty into a confirmed space against what is basically a fortess.
3.C.C.VChiba:Skill wise i would day their about even, if C.C. has been putting some training in this last month so the superiority of the Lancelot should be the deciding factor.
4.TodouVOrange:Todou's mech seems to have taken damage from the eruption of Mt Fuji and lacks enough firepower to penetrate the Siegfrieds shields. Also Jermiah is at least on par with him as a pilot so Todou is doomed. Mybe Anya/Xinge Ke will step in later after Todou goes buy-buy.
5.Downed IkarugaVBritannian fleet:Hopefully we'll get rid of them this EP.

I know it looks like i'm favouring the Britannian forces but Lelouch is going to lose a lot of his army making Schenziel waste his FLIEA's so their sacrifice will balance out the losses of the OotBK. Can't wait for the slaughterfest to begin in 24 hours:D

[Dream_Traveller]

Anya? Finish the Albion off? You do realize that even in a cripped state, with just one wing (it has to have one, at least, because the damn things are keeping the Frame afloat), the Albion can go far faster than the Mordred? It's a fucking flying tank up against a state-of-the-art supersonic death machine. If Anya faces Suzaku, she hasn't got a prayer.

[X_Danny_X]

That's why I'm giving him the edge, since it's what past precedent would show, but he could still tie or, noticeably less likely, lose too.


yes i agree, he could still tie but ofcourse he is likely to tie because he is away fighting multiple enimies and being banged up a bit. also he can get tagged team again. so with that he has a chance to lose because of interference from others in coming to help Kallen.

if it was one on one, then forsure she would lose since that is what has been happening when they had close equal mechas.

the writers been making it that way, and also the writers been making it that she puts up a fight so we can have a good mecha battle. in this fight, i think it is going to be very short since there is just sooooooooo much going around.


They're almost certainly winning in the end, which isn't hard to see because of this "together we are unstoppable" deal...it's the precise path to that victory we don't know about.

i believe Lelouch with some grand scheme of putting his enimies in certain situations like putting certain chess pieces in certain positions so he can even out the odds and win. that is why I bet he has Suzaku where he is away from him, he must of have something plan for the ones that tried to invade his ship. though i dont know if Kallen coming so close to killing him was part of the plan.

[demon_god04]

the writers made it a habit of making him superior to Kallen. So far he is the one that kept defeating her when they were pratically equal. The only times she defeated him was when she received an unexpected big upgrade.

The one time Suzaku actually beat Kallen in a clear victory was at the end of last season when Lancelot had a float pack and the Gurren was stuck on the ground. Yet Kallen's creative use of the terrain let her fight Suzaku fairly evenly and even took out one of his arms before Suzaku got her claw. So I'd have to disagree because they have been fairly even up until this point with one side "winning" only when the machines have an advantage.

[linkinstreet]

yes i agree, he could still tie but ofcourse he is likely to tie because he is away fighting multiple enimies and being banged up a bit. also he can get tagged team again. so with that he has a chance to lose because of interference from others in coming to help Kallen.

if it was one on one, then forsure she would lose since that is what has been happening when they had close equal mechas.

the writers been making it that way, and also the writers been making it that she puts up a fight so we can have a good mecha battle. in this fight, i think it is going to be very short since there is just sooooooooo much going around.



i believe Lelouch with some grand scheme of putting his enimies in certain situations like putting a certain chess pieces in certain positions so he can even out the odds and win. that is why I bet he has Suzaku where he is away from him, he must of have something plan for the ones that tried to invade his ship. though i dont know if Kallen coming so close to killing him was part of the plan.I doubt meeting Kallen was in his plans. Honestly tho, I hope that he would clarify to Kallen how he HONESTLY feel about her.
If it was R1, I think he thinks of her as a good friend a good fighter. But in R2, she was closer to him. His reaction after Kallen was caught certainly was a surprise for me as he looks too emotional about losing her. Too emotional IMO

[X_Danny_X]

The one time Suzaku actually beat Kallen in a clear victory was at the end of last season when Lancelot had a float pack and the Gurren was stuck on the ground. Yet Kallen's creative use of the terrain let her fight Suzaku fairly evenly and even took out one of his arms before Suzaku got her claw. So I'd have to disagree because they have been fairly even up until this point with one side "winning" only when the machines have an advantage.

well like i said in the whole post, almost on equal terms. the mechas were not that far apart. they always make her put a fight until she is defeated. if Suzaku was in her place, the samething would of happen im sure. the mechas there in part 1 were not that far apart, so in the end it was the fighters skills doings most of the talking.

the writers made it that he will would win against her like that. they made him the better pilot when they are fighting close to equal mechas.


in the previous battles he always put her on the defense and surely would of lost if the matches continued, Dream Traveller mentioned previous instances where he defeated her or put her on the defense. the mechas were not that far apart in fighting compared to when they fought in r2.


i thought for sure that she will have the most powerful mecha in the end since Lelouch had to win in the end and it looked that way but then the Albion being introduced and Suzaku being on Lelouch's side changed that. so the writers just put the same kind of situation like in part1 for both of them.

however since Suzaku and Lelouch are outgunned, Suzaku could well lose because of so many powerful or nuisance mechas to fight and continue to be double team afterwards. However I am betting that both he and Lelouch had to device some plan to just counter that. So I dont think Suzaku is going to be just concentrating on Kallen, he has to help put people in certain spots so that Lelouch can get to Schienzel.

[Dream_Traveller]

Danny, have you forgotten that:

1) Mooks can't do shit to named characters.

2) That any mech below the Albion or SEITEN, if they should face them, is a goner, with the possible exlcusion of the Tristan Twin which is fighting Shinkirou anyway?

[bladeofdarkness]

the outcome of the fight between them (assuming neither dies) is irelevent
suzaku would probably win but the question is will he win in a way that prevents her from getting to lelouch later on
unlike season 1 kallen's role in the plot is not limited to KMF pilot
i would wager that she could have more impact facing lelouch face to face at a later point

[X_Danny_X]

Danny, have you forgotten that:

1) Mooks can't do shit to named characters.

2) That any mech below the Albion or SEITEN, if they should face them, is a goner, with the possible exlcusion of the Tristan Twin which is fighting Shinkirou anyway?

I dont think Suzaku will get out of there unscratched if he confronts Xing-Li, Anya, etc. they are not un-named characters. i believe they might just put a little dent on him. also when facing Kallen, psbly intefere again. i dont think this fight with Kallen will last long, her getting the upper hand because he was fighting a bunch of enemies before confronting her is likely, then he comes back and gives enough time for Lelouch to get to Schienzel.


anyway, i am done arguing for now. gotta go.

[Narona]

I dont think Suzaku will get out of there unscratched if he confronts Xing-Li, Anya, etc. they are not un-named characters. i believe they might just put a little dent on him. also when facing Kallen, psbly intefere again. i dont think this fight with Kallen will last long, her getting the upper hand because he was fighting a bunch of enemies before confronting her is likely, then he comes back and gives enough time for Lelouch to get to Schienzel.


anyway, i am done arguing for now. gotta go.
Let's see, he killed three KoR (Li's knightmare is not as powerfull as galahad and I don't even talk about the mordred who will be destroyed in 3 sec if she faces the Albion) and an army without getting any scratch.

Nothing else to say.

[X_Danny_X]

Let's see, he killed three KoR (Li's knightmare is not as powerfull as galahad and I don't even talk about the mordred who will be destroyed in 3 sec if she faces the Albion) and an army without getting any scratch.

Nothing else to say.

that was the first time they introduced the Albion, so they just decided to show it off. i mean they brought that darkskinned girl pilot just to be fodder to the Albion.

besides, i dont think Xing-Li and the others are stupid enough just to face him head on like that, they had to prepare for him after seeing what it can do. i dont think the writers will have him just walk through everyone like that again.

but you know what, hopefully you are Dream Traveller are right. i like seeing him kick ass.

[Dream_Traveller]

So a Frame that can move at the speed of sound and is vastly superior to any other model save for the equal SEITEN, piloted by a person who has been made out to be the best pilot in the show, and said pilot has a Geass command that he can use to his advantage, can't walk through any opposition just like that?

[Narona]

but you know what, hopefully you are Dream Traveller are right. i like seeing him kick ass.
I didn't intend to offense you. Sorry if I did. But the theory that they will get interrupted by something is imo more logical than having the Albion being damaged by knightmares which can't even face the galahad and which can't even see the albion when it's moving.

[bladeofdarkness]

topic change
do you think kallen goes after lelouch at that moment becouse shnizel tells her to
he's still in command of the battle field
and he used suzaku in the same way in ep 20 (sent him alone to take out the head
we know kallen wants to go but xing-ke told her before to hold back
what if this time shnizel tells her "go take him out"

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

... Well, in any event, Suzaku will most likely make it alive through epispode 24. Exactly whether he'll emerge unscratched from it or not is up to question, but... *shrugs*

[Narona]

... Well, in any event, Suzaku will most likely make it alive through epispode 24. Exactly whether he'll emerge unscratched from it or not is up to question, but... *shrugs*
Me, I didn't say that he will not emerge unscratched. Will the albion be damaged? By Kallen? He will get some scratches, maybe. Be destroyed? Who knows, maybe. But by the other knightmares? imo, definitely No.

[linkinstreet]

Me, I didn't say that he will not emerge unscratched. Will the albion be damaged? By Kallen? He will get some scratches, maybe. Be destroyed? Who knows, maybe. But by the other knightmares? imo, definitely No.Gino will hug him and won't let him go

[youngde]

Anybody been to the spoiler thread lately. There's an interview w/ Lelouch's VA where he gives the most vague description of an episode ever. Basically asking...
what all the characters will do once the FREIJA start to fly (even Gino!), saying 'there will be alot of sadness,' saying something will make us go 'haaa' (in surprise apparently), and that something 'more cruel will happen' (but then he laughs, so he's either sadistic or lying.'

Basically, it tells you alot w/o telling you a damn thing (at least nothing we couldn't figure out ourselves).

[Dandylion]

topic change
do you think kallen goes after lelouch at that moment becouse shnizel tells her to
he's still in command of the battle field
and he used suzaku in the same way in ep 20 (sent him alone to take out the head
we know kallen wants to go but xing-ke told her before to hold back
what if this time shnizel tells her "go take him out"
Doubtful, she won't follow Schinizel's command period she follows the Black Knights more or less she'll want to track Lelouch for answers or to finish the job so to speak since she's obviously conflicted with it.

[youngde]

topic change
do you think kallen goes after lelouch at that moment becouse shnizel tells her to
he's still in command of the battle field
and he used suzaku in the same way in ep 20 (sent him alone to take out the head
we know kallen wants to go but xing-ke told her before to hold back
what if this time shnizel tells her "go take him out"

I think Kallen is going to go after Lelouch for her own reasons, and if ANYONE tries to tell her how to go about doing it, she'll say 'Shove it up your ass!!' (Not literally, of course). :D

[bladeofdarkness]

Doubtful, she won't follow Schinizel's command period she follows the Black Knights more or less she'll want to track Lelouch for answers or to finish the job so to speak since she's obviously conflicted with it.

she'd want to go at him anyway
shnizel in effect isnt telling her to do something she doesnt want to do
hes basiclly telling her "go for it"
once she gets there however...

[ZeroSama]

I didn't intend to offense you. Sorry if I did. But the theory that they will get interrupted by something is imo more logical than having the Albion being damaged by knightmares which can't even face the galahad and which can't even see the albion when it's moving.

Well Luciano could see the SEITEN when it was moving so i think its more along the lines of the Dorothea being caught by surprise and Monica not being able to track it because explosions and shit obscured her view.

Rather than fighting individually like the KoR dipshits did they'd fare much better if they took it on simulataneously, espically since its abilities were shown on a live TV broadcast so they have plenty of time to pull a Lelouch and analyse its movements etc.

[youngde]

Really if Kallen could just signal some of her allies (Xing Ke, Gino, Anya) and say "Fire on these coordinates when I tell you to," then get Albion in the right position, they probably beat him fairly easily. Too easily, which is way it almost certainly won't happen. I'm fairly certain it will be a strait on Albion VS. SEITEN fight until they get interrupted when Schneizel's plan becomes clear.

[Dream_Traveller]

Slight problem, youngde. Kallen, across...the course of the entire series, hasn't shown herself to be the least bit tactical. Whereas Suzaku's tried.

[Revolutionist]

Really if Kallen could just signal some of her allies (Xing Ke, Gino, Anya) and say "Fire on these coordinates when I tell you to," then get Albion in the right position, they probably beat him fairly easily. Too easily, which is way it almost certainly won't happen. I'm fairly certain it will be a strait on Albion VS. SEITEN fight until they get interrupted when Schneizel's plan becomes clear.

Yeah...Kallen just doesn't have the brains to pull off such a strategy.

[ZeroSama]

Really if Kallen could just signal some of her allies (Xing Ke, Gino, Anya) and say "Fire on these coordinates when I tell you to," then get Albion in the right position, they probably beat him fairly easily. Too easily, which is way it almost certainly won't happen. I'm fairly certain it will be a strait on Albion VS. SEITEN fight until they get interrupted when Schneizel's plan becomes clear.

Which shows you how retarded they if they don't. Look what happened when he got control of Todou and the 4 HS the first time. He used them to launch a co-ordinated assault on Suzaku in the superior machine and had him on the ropes until, would you belive it:eyespin:, Llyod gave him another toy:uhoh:.

Slight problem, youngde. Kallen, across...the course of the entire series, hasn't shown herself to be the least bit tactical. Whereas Suzaku's tried.

And failed. Big time.

Really hes better off doing what he normally does and smashing shit up.

[bladeofdarkness]

Really if Kallen could just signal some of her allies (Xing Ke, Gino, Anya) and say "Fire on these coordinates when I tell you to," then get Albion in the right position, they probably beat him fairly easily. Too easily, which is way it almost certainly won't happen. I'm fairly certain it will be a strait on Albion VS. SEITEN fight until they get interrupted when Schneizel's plan becomes clear.

suzaku wins the fight
notihng else matters in terms of the fight since suzaku is supposed to win the fight
he's in the preview for 25 which means he has to get to the damocles
but the importent question is whether or not kallen survives (probably) and gets to the damocles herself
last season she was mainly just a pilot
this season her effect on the plot would more likely be as a person rather then as a pilot
im looking for her chance to shine in ep 25 (finally using all that development for something)

[ZeroSama]

suzaku wins the fight
notihng else matters in terms of the fight since suzaku is supposed to win the fight
he's in the preview for 25 which means he has to get to the damocles
but the importent question is whether or not kallen survives (probably) and gets to the damocles herself
last season she was mainly just a pilot
this season her effect on the plot would more likely be as a person rather then as a pilot
im looking for her chance to shine in ep 25 (finally using all that development for something)

Theres a preview for EP 25? Link please:).

[Revolutionist]

Really if Kallen could just signal some of her allies (Xing Ke, Gino, Anya) and say "Fire on these coordinates when I tell you to," then get Albion in the right position, they probably beat him fairly easily. Too easily, which is way it almost certainly won't happen. I'm fairly certain it will be a strait on Albion VS. SEITEN fight until they get interrupted when Schneizel's plan becomes clear.

Which shows you how retarded they if they don't. Look what happened when he got control of Todou and the 4 HS the first time he used them to launch a co-ordinated assault on Suzaku in the superior machine and had him on the ropes until, would you belive it:eyespin:, Llyod gave him another toy:uhoh:.



And failed. Big time.

Really hes better off doing what he normally does and smashing shit up.

cut the guy some slack, his opponent was Lelouch who ended up using a dirty trick to defeat Suzaku's navy.

[bladeofdarkness]

Theres a preview for EP 25? Link please:).

i meant summery :heh:

[ZeroSama]

cut the guy some slack, his opponent was Lelouch who ended up using a dirty trick to defeat Suzaku's navy.

And lelouch would be the only person who would pull a dirty trick?

i meant summery :heh:

Crap:sad:.

[youngde]

cut the guy some slack, his opponent was Lelouch who ended up using a dirty trick to defeat Suzaku's navy.

Hey, I wasn't dissing Suzaku. I was just saying, he's pretty much all alone out there. It's not like he can see in every direction at once. If Kallen just got him into position and someone clipped his wings, it would be an easy win. It would also be anti-climatic, which is why they won't do it. :)

[bladeofdarkness]

Hey, I wasn't dissing Suzaku. I was just saying, he's pretty much all alone out there. It's not like he can see in every direction at once. If Kallen just got him into position and someone clipped his wings, it would be an easy win. It would also be anti-climatic, which is why they won't do it. :)

give it up man
he wins
it wont be a curbstomp but he'd win the fight
but i say again
kallen's role in the end of the show is not mearly as a pilot

[Revolutionist]

And lelouch would be the only person who would pull a dirty trick?



Crap:sad:.

My point was that Suzaku is not a bad strategist, he was doing fine until Lelouch showed up. He could probably beat the Bks with Toudo and Ougi leading them, Xingke I'm not too sure but it's possible.
Either way Suzaku most likely had to take lessons on how to be a leader when he became the Knight of 7. So tactics and strategy are something he's familiar with, unlike Kallen who hasn't had any formal training as a terrorist. Besides, terrorists don't get trained in tactics and strategy.

[Ruvixur]

Hey, I wasn't dissing Suzaku. I was just saying, he's pretty much all alone out there. It's not like he can see in every direction at once. If Kallen just got him into position and someone clipped his wings, it would be an easy win. It would also be anti-climatic, which is why they won't do it. :)

I hope you do understand, that it can also work the other way:heh:.
Don't forget loyal geass zombies and Orange!

[ZeroSama]

and Orange!

Who got his mech downgraded because he was far to badass:(. Give him back the flying Satsuma and let me watch the shit hit the fan. Please?

[Ruvixur]

Who got his mech downgraded because he was far to badass:(. Give him back the flying Satsuma and let me watch the shit hit the fan. Please?

Let's hope his mecha can transform:cool:.
Or love-love power with Sayoko will fabulously transform his mecha.:D

[Discerptor]

Hey, I wasn't dissing Suzaku. I was just saying, he's pretty much all alone out there. It's not like he can see in every direction at once. If Kallen just got him into position and someone clipped his wings, it would be an easy win. It would also be totally out of character for Kallen's usual dumb brute attitude in battle and complete lack of intelligence even compared to Plotzaku, which is why they won't do it. :)

I fixed it for you. Really, Suzaku has always been the far more tactical between him and Kallen. His fighting style revolves around getting good footing and an appropriate angle so he can maximise effectiveness with his ranged weapons and occasionally throw in a spin kick or MVS or something. Kallen, on the other hand, just charges in blindly with her claw at the ready. That's always been a fundamental difference in how they pilot, and they each got Knightmare Frames that play well to their strengths. That said, nether of them is likely to get others to help, mainly because of stubbornness.

[youngde]

Slight problem, youngde. Kallen, across...the course of the entire series, hasn't shown herself to be the least bit tactical. Whereas Suzaku's tried.

My point was that Suzaku is not a bad strategist, he was doing fine until Lelouch showed up. He could probably beat the Bks with Toudo and Ougi leading them, Xingke I'm not too sure but it's possible.
Either way Suzaku most likely had to take lessons on how to be a leader when he became the Knight of 7. So tactics and strategy are something he's familiar with, unlike Kallen who hasn't had any formal training as a terrorist. Besides, terrorists don't get trained in tactics and strategy.

I fixed it for you. Really, Suzaku has always been the far more tactical between him and Kallen. His fighting style revolves around getting good footing and an appropriate angle so he can maximise effectiveness with his ranged weapons and occasionally throw in a spin kick or MVS or something. Kallen, on the other hand, just charges in blindly with her claw at the ready. That's always been a fundamental difference in how they pilot, and they each got Knightmare Frames that play well to their strengths. That said, nether of them is likely to get others to help, mainly because of stubbornness.

1) I never said Kallen would be the one to come up with such a plan. It would be Xing Ke if anybody, and she probably wouldn't accept the help anyway. Suzaku also doesn't think that way, and Lelouch will probably be on Schneizel's fortress by then, so he won't suggest it. (Not that he would, unless he was sure he could disable Kallen w/o killing her. He has a tendency to freeze up when his friends are involved.)

2) Strategy or no, Suzaku and Kallen have always been about even when piloting machines of equal specs, so I don't think that will have any particular bearing on their fight.

3) Kallen showed herself to be quite proficient in the myriad of weapons that the SEITEN provided in her fight against Luciano. (Not that it was a fair test since his machine was nearly up to the task.) But my point is that she didn't just spam her radiation arm.

[X_Danny_X]

So a Frame that can move at the speed of sound and is vastly superior to any other model save for the equal SEITEN, piloted by a person who has been made out to be the best pilot in the show, and said pilot has a Geass command that he can use to his advantage, can't walk through any opposition just like that?

i love the way you worded this, all hail Suzaku! im thinking of putting it as my sig. :cool: i hope that Suzaku just destroys everything in his path.

I doubt meeting Kallen was in his plans. Honestly tho, I hope that he would clarify to Kallen how he HONESTLY feel about her.
If it was R1, I think he thinks of her as a good friend a good fighter. But in R2, she was closer to him. His reaction after Kallen was caught certainly was a surprise for me as he looks too emotional about losing her. Too emotional IMO



i actually dont wish the death of anyone but if Kallen is willing to kill Lelouch then it is fair game to kill her.


this series will be remember more if a main character like Kallen dies. maybe in away that a Freija bomb would be striking Lelouch and she gets in the way. then she finally hears the words that she wanted. Lelouch never did admitted his feelings to anybody, not even shirley when she died.

[lovecakecookies]

i love the way you worded this, all hail Suzaku! im thinking of putting it as my sig. :cool: i hope that Suzaku just destroys everything in his path.



this series will be remember more if a main character like Kallen dies. maybe in away that a Freija bomb would be striking Lelouch and she gets in the way. then she finally hears the words that she wanted. Lelouch never did admitted his feelings to anybody, not even shirley when she died.

To some maybe, but I don't want Kallen dying, even if its for Lelouch :rolleyes:... unless she is saving the world or something.. then maybe..

[FoxxFireArt]

this series will be remember more if a main character like Kallen dies. maybe in away that a Freija bomb would be striking Lelouch and she gets in the way. then she finally hears the words that she wanted. Lelouch never did admitted his feelings to anybody, not even shirley when she died.

Too similar to what happened with Guilford. Also FLEIJA isn't a bullet. It's a giant bomb. Lelouch was at the edge of the blast radius before. Guilford just gave him that last push out of the way. If this one was aimed at Lelouch I don't see how she just pushes away to safety.

[youngde]

i actually dont wish the death of anyone but if Kallen is willing to kill Lelouch then it is fair game to kill her.


this series will be remember more if a main character like Kallen dies. maybe in away that a Freija bomb would be striking Lelouch and she gets in the way. then she finally hears the words that she wanted. Lelouch never did admitted his feelings to anybody, not even shirley when she died.

1) Why is it fair to kill Kallen? She (like most of us) doesn't even know what the Requiem is. If she's told, and the Requiem is a good thing, then she would probably go along with it. If she's told, and it's bad (unlikely, but possible), then I say it's fair to fry Lelouch.

2) I think there are plenty of anime series that got through the entire series with the main cast still alive that are well known. Also, the other three mains seem to have more death flags than Kallen at this point. Kallen is the only one that still has a life to go back to; I would be sad of she's the one that bites it. :(

[Revolutionist]

Here's my thing with Kallen, she's killed so many people under the pretense of being a resistance fighter and avenging her dead terrorist brother, that at this point she must die in order to atone for her sins.

[Dream_Traveller]

Here's my thing with Kallen, she's killed so many people under the pretense of being a resistance fighter and avenging her dead terrorist brother, that at this point she must die in order to atone for her sins.

She first fought under the pretense of avenging Naoto, under which she...barely killed anyone, and then she became a warrior fighting against an oppressive empire, then an official soldier against said empire. Compared to Suzaku, Lelouch and C.C., hell, even Nunnally, she's committed less 'sins', the one example coming to mind being the inadvertant murder of some of Narita's civilians.

[Vito]

Here's my thing with Kallen, she's killed so many people under the pretense of being a resistance fighter and avenging her dead terrorist brother, that at this point she must die in order to atone for her sins.

Terrorist brother? Do we even know what he did, sure he was part of the group, but do we know what role he played? Kallen certainly isn't innocent, but this is war for independence, should she sprinkle the enemy with flower petals? Have they even shown Kallen killing any civilians?

[Revolutionist]

Terrorist brother? Do we even know what he did, sure he was part of the group, but do we know what role he played? Kallen certainly isn't innocent, but this is war for independence, should she sprinkle the enemy with flower petals? Have they even shown Kallen killing any civilians?

well, she killed a ton of civvies including Shirley's dad. This was indirectly though, and part of Lelouch's plan, but she did pull the trigger so she's just as guilty as the guy who planned it all.

[Vito]

well, she killed a ton of civvies including Shirley's dad. This was indirectly though, and part of Lelouch's plan, but she did pull the trigger so she's just as guilty as the guy who planned it all.

So apart from that incident? She's not as guilty as the guy who planned it all. She was merely following orders. I'm not saying she's innocent but you've got one hell of a black and white approach here :twitch: Aside from that, I belive the device was more effective than it was thought to be, so it was also more of a planning error.

[cors8]

well, she killed a ton of civvies including Shirley's dad. This was indirectly though, and part of Lelouch's plan, but she did pull the trigger so she's just as guilty as the guy who planned it all.

IIRC, even Lelouch didn't expect the explosion to be that big. I think he was only aiming for the Brittanian military but Nina's calculations were off.

Of course, he didn't care much since he got the result he wanted anyway until he found out about Shirley's dad.

[youngde]

Here's my thing with Kallen, she's killed so many people under the pretense of being a resistance fighter and avenging her dead terrorist brother, that at this point she must die in order to atone for her sins.

Lelouch killed so many people under the pretense of giving his sister a peaceful world and avenging his mother. Suzaku killed so many people under the pretense of 'changing Britannia from within.' C.C. wanted to (in essence) kill everyone on earth w/ Charles and Marianne until Lelouch convinced her otherwise (and allowed Lelouch to kill alot of people under a false pretense).

As early as season 1, episode 9, Kallen showed signs that she regretted killing people, and in episode 13 she admits that she hates doing it, but does it for the sake of justice. Compared to most people in the show who don't seem to have a problem with killing people, I'd say Kallen is one of the few people that doesn't deserve to die.

[Dandylion]

Lelouch killed so many people under the pretense of giving his sister a peaceful world and avenging his mother. Suzaku killed so many people under the pretense of 'changing Britannia from within.' C.C. wanted to (in essence) kill everyone on earth w/ Charles and Marianne until Lelouch convinced her otherwise (and allowed Lelouch to kill alot of people under a false pretense).

As early as season 1, episode 9, Kallen showed signs that she regretted killing people, and in episode 13 she admits that she hates doing it, but does it for the sake of justice. Compared to most people in the show who don't seem to have a problem with killing people, I'd say Kallen is one of the few people that doesn't deserve to die.
Uh, Suzaku was the same way until the F.L.E.I.J.A. incident he believed that the ends achieved by using the wrong means are meaningless, since he created peace through murder. So who cares she regretted it murder is murder regardless did she regret killing Lucanio and the Valkyries, no, she's a warrior on the battlefield and that's different from someone like say Rolo who kills gleefully for the hell of it and never thinks of the results ahead time. Kallen fate is just your personal preference about her, doesn't deserve to die, bah! Everyone's fair game in the series my friend she's no different than anyone else. The atrocities of everyone cannot be forgotten.

[morbosfist]

If anyone truly deserves to die, it certainly isn't Kallen. Suzaku and Lelouch deserve it far more, and even C.C. for spreading Geass around. Her chances of dying are at best 50/50. I seriously doubt they'll kill her, though.

[Sports72Xtrm]

I don't think people are obligated to die for their sins since everyone has committed a sin one way or another and that justification of it is based on the lie that is your moral intention. If people die, it isn't because they deserve it. It's because they were in the wrong place and wrong time. Just the way it is. But seeing as this is an anime certain characters have plot armor

[morbosfist]

Like the four main characters, though C.C. is actually less likely to live through all of this than she is to die.

[Dandylion]

If anyone truly deserves to die, it certainly isn't Kallen. Suzaku and Lelouch deserve it far more, and even C.C. for spreading Geass around. Her chances of dying are at best 50/50. I seriously doubt they'll kill her, though.
Please elaborate, the only person I see that doesn't deserve to die are Milly and Rivalz since they had no involvement with this war Lelouch has started. Like Isaid before Kallen is a warriror on the battlefield as Suzaku was a soldier for the Britannian Army before he decided to join Lelouch so it was their duty to kill under orders that's how war is, granted her kill count isn't as high as his (live command accident mind you) it still doesn't change the fact that to this day they've killed to achieve their goals.

[morbosfist]

Please elaborate, the only person I see that doesn't deserve to die are Milly and Rivalz since they had no involvement with this war Lelouch has started. Like Isaid before Kallen is a warriror on the battlefield as Suzaku was a soldier for the Britannian Army before he decided to join Lelouch so it was their duty to kill under orders that's how war is, granted her kill count isn't as high as his (live command accident mind you) it still doesn't change the fact that to this day they've killed to achieve their goals.If you want an explanation, fine, but I don't intend on arguing it any further. This is the Kallen thread, after all, and it's only slightly relevant. Plus the episode is coming up and will settle this anyway.

Suzaku deserves to die far more because he, especially in the second season, has no problem with killing people, especially when they're not doing things his way. Hell, he killed his father for that very reason. God forbid the Japanese fight for their country, despite the odds. No, the violence was wrong so he killed his father. Sure he regrets it, but he was old enough to know what he did was wrong. Then he joins up with the people who enslaved his country in the first place, and fights against his own people trying to free it. I've never liked Suzaku because of this. He simply has no pride.

Lelouch has taken all the lives he has for a primary desire for revenge. Only recently has world peace even superseded that revenge. Then there's all the lives he's ruined through Geass.

Kallen has done comparatively little killing, and all of it as a soldier and/or freedom fighter. From the beginning she has been fighting an unjust empire to free her country. Even now she's fighting the guy she loves because he's using deplorable methods to conquer the world (at least at face value).

So in short, Kallen has hardly sinned to any significant degree, whereas those other two are much worse in the sins they've committed.

[youngde]

I don't think people are obligated to die for their sins since everyone has committed a sin one way or another and that justification of it is based on the lie that is your moral intention. If people die, it isn't because they deserve it. It's because they were in the wrong place and wrong time. Just the way it is. But seeing as this is an anime certain characters have plot armor

THANK YOU for posting that. My whole point of my post was that EVERY, SINGLE person in this series has done some really bad stuff. And every single one of them have done it for their own selfish motives one way or another. There's no such thing as a completely selfless act; all people have their own agenda. Lelouch is one of the worst of them all. Granted the worst have been Lelouch's parents (subduing the world to get hold of a weapon that can fry all of humanity is NOT cool) and Schneizel (wanting to rain down destruction and fear from on high as god, also, NOT cool). But everyone's done some crappy stuff.

At least some people in the series (Lelouch, Kallen, C.C. once the truth of Marianne came out, and Suzaku before he went a little nuts) have shown some amount of remorse for the things that they have done/are doing. That makes them somewhat more sympathetic.

The fact of the matter is, if everyone got what was coming to them, everyone except maybe Rival and Milly would die at this point, which I'm pretty sure won't happen. I'm not saying Kallen is a saint; she probably did alot of bad crap as a terrorist, but she did overcome her hatred of Britannians in general (mostly because of her friends on the student council) and she's hasn't intentionally hurt civilians (in series at any rate). So at least she's gotten better.

Personally, I don't want anyone to die due to their 'sins.' Judge not lest ye be judged and all that. I would rather everyone make it and be able to atone for what they've done. But we'll just see.

[Dandylion]

If you want an explanation, fine, but I don't intend on arguing it any further. This is the Kallen thread, after all, and it's only slightly relevant. Plus the episode is coming up and will settle this anyway.

Suzaku deserves to die far more because he, especially in the second season, has no problem with killing people, especially when they're not doing things his way. Hell, he killed his father for that very reason. God forbid the Japanese fight for their country, despite the odds. No, the violence was wrong so he killed his father. Sure he regrets it, but he was old enough to know what he did was wrong. Then he joins up with the people who enslaved his country in the first place, and fights against his own people trying to free it. I've never liked Suzaku because of this. He simply has no pride.

Lelouch has taken all the lives he has for a primary desire for revenge. Only recently has world peace even superseded that revenge. Then there's all the lives he's ruined through Geass.

Kallen has done comparatively little killing, and all of it as a soldier and/or freedom fighter. From the beginning she has been fighting an unjust empire to free her country. Even now she's fighting the guy she loves because he's using deplorable methods to conquer the world (at least at face value).

So in short, Kallen has hardly sinned to any significant degree, whereas those other two are much worse in the sins they've committed.
I think you missed the entire point, but whatever you obviously want to stick by this notion and once agin you've excused her since she's in your favorites list so at this point why go any further if your going continue defending her over the same damn reasons.

[youngde]

Personally, I don't particularly blame Suzaku OR Kallen for the deaths that occured while they were fighting for the Britannian Military and the OotBKs, respectively. Both were soldiers fighting for what they honestly believed was right. Both regretted the fact that they needed to kill in order to do what they believed was right. I don't want to get into a huge debate as to whether killing during a war is heroic or murder; I think such things are out of the scope of an anime internet forum. Even they, themselves, agreed to keep their differences on the battlefield when they discovered what each other were (until all hell broke loose at any rate).

[Dandylion]

Personally, I don't particularly blame Suzaku OR Kallen for the deaths that occured while they were fighting for the Britannian Military and the OotBKs, respectively. Both were soldiers fighting for what they honestly believed was right. Both regretted the fact that they needed to kill in order to do what they believed was right. I don't want to get into a huge debate as to whether killing during a war is heroic or murder; I think such things are out of the scope of an anime internet forum. Even they, themselves, agreed to keep their differences on the battlefield when they discovered what each other were (until all hell broke loose at any rate).
I agree I'm serving in the Air Force right now and when war is an issue its not just your life on the line its everyone's else as well, I agree wholeheartedly with you and I don't want this to turn into a morality debate of whether killing is wrong, my issue stems from the fact people excuse Kallen for her actions as a whole and just because she feels bad for killing doesn't qualify as a worthwhile indebt, hell Shirley shot someone and felt bad for it and look what happened. Anyway I think I'll end this right here.

[Vakir]

So apart from that incident? She's not as guilty as the guy who planned it all. She was merely following orders. I'm not saying she's innocent but you've got one hell of a black and white approach here :twitch: Aside from that, I belive the device was more effective than it was thought to be, so it was also more of a planning error.

When anyone else obeys orders, they're the evil scrappy/a horrible terrorist.

When Kallen obeys orders, she still farts pixie dust and kittens.

Got it.

Hey, we're getting SOMEWHERE. Oppression of females is gone, it's just going in the opposite direction.

[Dandylion]

When anyone else obeys orders, they're the evil scrappy/a horrible terrorist.

When Kallen obeys orders, she still farts pixie dust and kittens.

Got it.

Hey, we're getting SOMEWHERE. Oppression of females is gone, it's just going in the opposite direction.
That's what everyone thinks I suppose....

[Revolutionist]

That's what everyone thinks I suppose....

I don't agree with that point of view.

At least Suzaku was following orders from an established government, Kallen in the other hand was just a TERRORIST. It doesn't get more clear cut that than IMO ^_^

[Vakir]

I don't agree with that point of view.

At least Suzaku was following orders from an established government, Kallen in the other hand was just a TERRORIST. It doesn't get more clear cut that than IMO ^_^

Now, Suzaku's my favorite character...but I don't think it's really that simple. >_> A well established government doesn't equal out to a good one. His intentions were noble, but damn if he didn't make plenty of mistakes along the way. But at the same time, people are WAY too easy on Kallen just because she apparently has this GIANT fanboy/fangirl following all of a sudden. Seriously, they weren't quite this insane before, say, ep 15ish. Now that we're at the penultimate episode, they've grown rather rabid.

[NextTime]

Now, Suzaku's my favorite character...but I don't think it's really that simple. >_> A well established government doesn't equal out to a good one.

Yep. You'd think someone with the ID "Revolutionist" would know that before hand. :uhoh:

[youngde]

I don't agree with that point of view.

At least Suzaku was following orders from an established government, Kallen in the other hand was just a TERRORIST. It doesn't get more clear cut that than IMO ^_^

Along that line of reasoning, the American Revolution was a big act of terrorism and the USA's founding fathers were terrorists. At any rate, this has been discussed before, and I'm not going to do it again. This is the last you'll hear from me on this particular subject.

[X_Danny_X]

1) Why is it fair to kill Kallen? She (like most of us) doesn't even know what the Requiem is. If she's told, and the Requiem is a good thing, then she would probably go along with it. If she's told, and it's bad (unlikely, but possible), then I say it's fair to fry Lelouch.

2) I think there are plenty of anime series that got through the entire series with the main cast still alive that are well known. Also, the other three mains seem to have more death flags than Kallen at this point. Kallen is the only one that still has a life to go back to; I would be sad of she's the one that bites it. :(


well i mean if she is trying to kill Lelouch, then Lelouch has the right to defense herself to the same extent...meaning killing her if necessary. that is basically all on that. i dont think though that she is going to do it.


yes i know there are bigger death flags than her at stake. but it will be a huge shock and surprise that she is the one that gets killed instead of the others...the series will be remember more when shocking and unexpected death occurs that leaves your mouth wide open and your mind wondering why!


also i forgot to mentioned in her match against Suzaku, i just wanted to mentioned that possibly the writers will make both go all out and make Suzaku use Live Geass for the hell of it. just to show both pilots capabilities and mecha abilities.

[Vakir]

Along that line of reasoning, the American Revolution was a big act of terrorism and the USA's founding fathers were terrorists. At any rate, this has been discussed before, and I'm not going to do it again. This is the last you'll hear from me on this particular subject.

Everyone's a terrorist from the classical definition of it.

Every government ever implemented has been a terrorist because they need to police things in order to set laws and boundaries. Hell, every FICTIONAL SUPERHERO (as opposed to the non-fictional ones? Nevermind) is a terrorist. No exceptions.

Terrorism and terrorist are stupid weasel words in general. The idea here is not to let people slip by for stupid crap. Kallen is not exempt from blame, but then NO ONE in the show is.

[youngde]

yes i know there are bigger death flags than her at stake. but it will be a huge shock and surprise that she is the one that gets killed instead of the others...the series will be remember more when shocking and unexpected death occurs that leaves your mouth wide open and your mind wondering why!

also i forgot to mentioned in her match against Suzaku, i just wanted to mentioned that possibly the writers will make both go all out and make Suzaku use Live Geass for the hell of it. just to show both pilots capabilities and mecha abilities.

Unfortunately, being remembered and being remembered fondly are two different things entirely. At any rate, I currently think it would be MORE shocking if all main four made it (not that I wouldn't be happy mind you). :p

I agree, but I wouldn't put it past Kallen to pull out an upset. She's always been about even w/ Suzaku in machines w/ similar specs, and the 'Live On' Geass thing seems to give Suzaku the advantage. I figure it's likely that the 'Live On' Geass has to fail at some point, and this series seems to enjoy WTF moments. :)

[Vakir]

Unfortunately, being remembered and being remembered fondly are two different things entirely. At any rate, I currently think it would be MORE shocking if all main four made it (not that I wouldn't be happy mind you). :p

Money's on C.C. and Suzaku dying. Sorry. All four making it out? You must be confusing this with every non-mecha anime ever. >_>

I agree, but I wouldn't put it past Kallen to pull out an upset. She's always been about even w/ Suzaku in machines w/ similar specs, and the 'Live On' Geass thing seems to give Suzaku the advantage. I figure it's likely that the 'Live On' Geass has to fail at some point, and this series seems to enjoy WTF moments. :)

Kallen's made Suzaku look like a bitch way too many times. For everytime he's won, she's always just done a little "O.o" face and it's over and he leaves, making the win even a little ambiguous. For everytime he's lost, she's been on the precise urge of killing him and he semi-DEMs out of it. I'm sorry, but neither side should win this, but if one side has to, it should really go to the person on the side of the MAIN CHARACTER who has had his credibility pretty much raped by never beating anyone on an equal footing.

[youngde]

Kallen's made Suzaku look like a bitch way too many times. For everytime he's won, she's always just done a little "O.o" face and it's over and he leaves, making the win even a little ambiguous. For everytime he's lost, she's been on the precise urge of killing him and he semi-DEMs out of it. I'm sorry, but neither side should win this, but if one side has to, it should really go to the person on the side of the MAIN CHARACTER who has had his credibility pretty much raped by never beating anyone on an equal footing.

To the best of my knowledge, she only beat him twice. :)

But seriously, I don't see either one winning because I'm pretty sure they'll be able to put aside their differences when UNQUENCHABLE, HORRIBLE, FLAMING DEATH STARTS TO RAIN DOWN FROM THE SKY. It's funny how things like that stop an arguement and put everything in perspective. :heh:

[Dandylion]

Unfortunately, being remembered and being remembered fondly are two different things entirely. At any rate, I currently think it would be MORE shocking if all main four made it (not that I wouldn't be happy mind you). :p

I agree, but I wouldn't put it past Kallen to pull out an upset. She's always been about even w/ Suzaku in machines w/ similar specs, and the 'Live On' Geass thing seems to give Suzaku the advantage. I figure it's likely that the 'Live On' Geass has to fail at some point, and this series seems to enjoy WTF moments. :)
When has geass failed?

[Vakir]

To the best of my knowledge, she only beat him twice. :)

But seriously, I don't see either one winning because I'm pretty sure they'll be able to put aside their differences when UNQUENCHABLE, HORRIBLE, FLAMING DEATH STARTS TO RAIN DOWN FROM THE SKY. It's funny how things like that stop an arguement and put everything in perspective. :heh:

Well, yes. The fight is likely going to be put on hold when Schneizel's true intentions are outed, probably by a geassed Diethard. If either of them were to lose, it means they don't get to participate in the final battle, which would be a serious fan disservice. Which is why I said neither should really "win."

When has geass failed?
series seems to enjoy WTF moments

[Dandylion]

To the best of my knowledge, she only beat him twice. :)

But seriously, I don't see either one winning because I'm pretty sure they'll be able to put aside their differences when UNQUENCHABLE, HORRIBLE, FLAMING DEATH STARTS TO RAIN DOWN FROM THE SKY. It's funny how things like that stop an arguement and put everything in perspective. :heh:
Nah, they're pretty much even either receiving upgrades during the fight or on equal footings

[morbosfist]

When has geass failed?It hasn't, thus the future tense. And the line means that it would fail to help him win, not fail to activate.

[Dandylion]

It hasn't, thus the future tense. And the line means that it would fail to help him win, not fail to activate.
That's just wishful thinking on everyone's part really, I meant geass as a whole when Lelouch uses it on people, has it ever failed?

[Vakir]

That's just wishful thinking on everyone's part really, I meant geass as a whole when Lelouch uses it on people, has it ever failed?

It's arguable that Euphie broke the Geass of her own will when she was with Suzaku.

If not, there's always the fallback argument that Bismarck's Geass wouldn't necessarily be enough, thus Suzaku's may not.

But really, I don't want Kallen to win either. Shit would just be STUPID. "The Big Four" barely exists, it's more like "the Big Three" if you look at 95% of the press material out there.

[morbosfist]

That's just wishful thinking on everyone's part really, I meant geass as a whole when Lelouch uses it on people, has it ever failed?You're still hung up on "failed" and missing the point. If he were killed while it was active, it will not have failed. It will have been overcome. For example, remember the girl in season 1 who lelouch ordered to make a mark on the wall every day without exception? I forget where it says this exactly, but now she's in a Britannian insane asylum, because every day she is compelled to return to Japan to mark that wall. The command is working, she just can't follow through.

[Vakir]

You're still hung up on "failed" and missing the point. If he were killed while it was active, it will not have failed. It will have been overcome. For example, remember the girl in season 1 who lelouch ordered to make a mark on the wall every day without exception? I forget where it says this exactly, but now she's in a Britannian insane asylum, because every day she is compelled to return to Japan to mark that wall. The command is working, she just can't follow through.

*marks another reason to not like Lelouch on the wall*

MUST...COME BACK...EVERY DAY.

[youngde]

You're still hung up on "failed" and missing the point. If he were killed while it was active, it will not have failed. It will have been overcome. For example, remember the girl in season 1 who lelouch ordered to make a mark on the wall every day without exception? I forget where it says this exactly, but now she's in a Britannian insane asylum, because every day she is compelled to return to Japan to mark that wall. The command is working, she just can't follow through.

Assuming you're kidding about the insane asylum thing, otherwise where the frick did you hear that!?! :heh:

[Dandylion]

It's arguable that Euphie broke the Geass of her own will when she was with Suzaku.

If not, there's always the fallback argument that Bismarck's Geass wouldn't necessarily be enough, thus Suzaku's may not.

But really, I don't want Kallen to win either. Shit would just be STUPID. "The Big Four" barely exists, it's more like "the Big Three" if you look at 95% of the press material out there.
Euphie broke it herself because it was against her will, Suzaku using it to his advantage might have been for Bismarck only because his geass could see the future but other than that Lelouch's geass has never failed it was the the victims who lost

[morbosfist]

Assuming you're kidding about the insane asylum thing, otherwise where the frick did you hear that!?! :heh:Oh I'm not kidding, and I'm fairly certain this was explained somewhere. It's been repeated on this forum a couple of times. All the students were sent back to Britannia, that girl included. She keeps trying to go back and so they locked her up.

Euphie broke it herself because it was against her will, Suzaku using it to his advantage might have been for Bismarck only because his geass could see the future but other than that Lelouch's geass has never failed it was the the victims who lostWhich no one is denying. Get off "failed", it's just a way of saying it wasn't enough to keep him alive. Geass commands cannot do the impossible.

[Dandylion]

Assuming you're kidding about the insane asylum thing, otherwise where the frick did you hear that!?! :heh:
You mean you haven't heard of wall carve-tan the girl Lelouch geassed in Season one to test his geass durability will it turns out she moved and her parents apparently locked her in her room because they believe she was sleep walking due to the command.

[Dandylion]

You're still hung up on "failed" and missing the point. If he were killed while it was active, it will not have failed. It will have been overcome. For example, remember the girl in season 1 who lelouch ordered to make a mark on the wall every day without exception? I forget where it says this exactly, but now she's in a Britannian insane asylum, because every day she is compelled to return to Japan to mark that wall. The command is working, she just can't follow through.
What? how can he die if the command was to live, meaning he would try to figure the best advantage to fight or escape from the situation

[youngde]

What? how can he die if the command was to live, meaning he would try to figure the best advantage to fight or escape from the situation

It's not like the Geass makes him all powerful. If he gets into a situation where he couldn't win AND couldn't run, he would die. Lelouch Geassed Shirley to live too, but it didn't stop her from bleeding to death. The Live command can only overcome so much.

[morbosfist]

What? how can he die if the command was to live, meaning he would try to figure the best advantage to fight or escape from the situationThis will be a completely out there hypothetical, but bear with me. Say the Death Star suddenly shows up in Code Geass and Palpatine decides to blow up the Earth. Just for kicks, he tells everyone this, Suzaku included. Suzaku's live Geass activates, and he runs for the Lancelot, because just for the hell of it the Lancelot can exit the atmosphere. But wait, Palpatine can talk faster than Suzaku can run, and blows up the Earth. Suzaku is dead. Did his command fail? No. he was trying to live the entire time. His Geass command cannot allow him to breathe in space or teleport, because it cannot do the impossible.

If his command activated against Kallen, yet she managed to destroy his weapons and get the claw on him, his command would not matter. She'd fry him and he'd die, despite his best efforts to live.

[Dandylion]

It's not like the Geass makes him all powerful. If he gets into a situation where he couldn't win AND couldn't run, he would die. Lelouch Geassed Shirley to live too, but it didn't stop her from bleeding to death. The Live command can only overcome so much.
I didn't say it made him powerful and there's a difference Shirley was in and inescapable situation, she was bleeding to death while if Suzaku is engaged in battle the command will give him the best possibly outcome of either escaping and overcoming the terrain. I don't know the outcome if he was in Shirley's situation?

[morbosfist]

I didn't say it made him powerful and there's a difference Shirley was in and inescapable situation, she was bleeding to death while if Suzaku is engaged in battle the command will give him the best possibly outcome of either escaping and overcoming the terrain. I don't know the outcome if he was in Shirley's situation?Possible outcome does not equal sure thing. It forces him to live whatever the cost, but it is not infallible. Those Gun-Rus in episode 20 would have wasted him despite his live Geass activating. Just because he is trying to live does not mean he can't be killed.

[Dandylion]

This will be a completely out there hypothetical, but bear with me. Say the Death Star suddenly shows up in Code Geass and Palpatine decides to blow up the Earth. Just for kicks, he tells everyone this, Suzaku included. Suzaku's live Geass activates, and he runs for the Lancelot, because just for the hell of it the Lancelot can exit the atmosphere. But wait, Palpatine can talk faster than Suzaku can run, and blows up the Earth. Suzaku is dead. Did his command fail? No. he was trying to live the entire time. His Geass command cannot allow him to breathe in space or teleport, because it cannot do the impossible.

If his command activated against Kallen, yet she managed to destroy his weapons and get the claw on him, his command would not matter. She'd fry him and he'd die, despite his best efforts to live.
That makes a hell of a lot more sense when you put it that way. Well if she managed to get that far unscathed still having her weapons and him having none then I'll eat my own words, but like everyone says Code Geass has made alot of WTF moments so even if he gets clawed well.....
Possible outcome does not equal sure thing. It forces him to live whatever the cost, but it is not infallible. Those Gun-Rus in episode 20 would have wasted him despite his live Geass activating. Just because he is trying to live does not mean he can't be killed.
That's true, can't argue with that I guess

[Vakir]

If his command activated against Kallen, yet she managed to destroy his weapons and get the claw on him, his command would not matter. She'd fry him and he'd die, despite his best efforts to live.

The problem is, you greatly overestimate Kallen because you're a fanboy. Seriously. Live Geass + likely superior machine = KALLEN WINZ? It's probably a tie.

What's next, it was the POWER OF LOVE that fueled her awesome war rush?

[morbosfist]

The problem is, you greatly overestimate Kallen because you're a fanboy. Seriously. Live Geass + likely superior machine = KALLEN WINZ? It's probably a tie.

What's next, it was the POWER OF LOVE that fueled her awesome war rush?in this case, I'm merely demonstrating how the command could fail to keep him alive. It has nothing to do with her actually being capable of it. I'd like to think she could, but it's beside the point in this instance.

[Vakir]

in this case, I'm merely demonstrating how the command could fail to keep him alive. It has nothing to do with her actually being capable of it. I'd like to think she could, but it's beside the point in this instance.

The way you worded it, it sounded rather effortless.

I just don't think Bismarck minus his Geass is inferior to Kallen with the SEITEN. Period. : / If anything, Kallen will stand up to Suzaku because of plot armor.

[youngde]

Truthfully, I don't see either mech getting permenently damaged in their fight, since it would exclude them from the final fight with Schneizel, which would make the fans go 'boo' (at least many of them). At the end of the day, it's all about crowd pleasing and selling DVDs. :p

I'm most inclined to think the battle will end prior to any final conclusion. It's just so many people say that Suzaku winning is a sure thing because he has his 'Live On' Geass. But this is Code Geass, and if it were that obvious, it wouldn't be in this show. They have to throw a curve ball in there somewhere. I've lost count of how many times I've thought that something for sure has to happen in a particular episode, only to go, 'Man, I was waaay off,' at the end. So from now on, I'm going to assume everything that I think will happen is wrong. :heh:

[Vakir]

So from now on, I'm going to assume everything that I think will happen is wrong. :heh:

In that case, episode 24 and 25 will not air.

Code Geass R2 Ending: NICE BOAT.

[Revolutionist]

Along that line of reasoning, the American Revolution was a big act of terrorism and the USA's founding fathers were terrorists. At any rate, this has been discussed before, and I'm not going to do it again. This is the last you'll hear from me on this particular subject.

The Americans actually had a conventional army and engaged the British in open warfare. They didn't use "terrorism" to win the war, there's a big difference between people who act openly in defiance and those who hide their identities to wage a covert war. The Colonies got together and established their own government, and raised their own army. Yes some colonists behaved like terrorists in their "militias", but most of them were eventually absorbed into the Continental Army, which fought by the rules.
Please point out a terrorist that has played by the book...

[morbosfist]

The way you worded it, it sounded rather effortless.

I just don't think Bismarck minus his Geass is inferior to Kallen with the SEITEN. Period. : / If anything, Kallen will stand up to Suzaku because of plot armor.Well, the effort wasn't really important. Anyway, if Bismarck is inferior to Suzaku minus Geass, he's inferior to Kallen minus Geass. His machine couldn't keep up, so he used Geass. He would have had to use it against Kallen all the same.