Macross Frontier - Speculation Thread [Spoilers] [Archive]

4Tran

2008-04-22, 00:02

The purpose of this thread is to allow free discussion of theories and speculation of the Macross Frontier anime series, whether its the number of flags on Ozma, or guessing how many times Alto will get shot down, or how Ranka's cellphone is the mastermind behind everything. Please be warned that this may mean unmarked spoilers. Having a central location may help focus the discussion instead of spreading speculation over the various episode discussion threads.

Acceptable post topics
Personal theories, speculation, guesses and such. No spoiler tags required.
Posting magazine previews (such as from Animage). Spoiler tags required.
Any form of spoiler from the Macross Frontier manga. Clearly marked Spoiler tags required.

Please make sure you use spoiler tags as indicated above! Also provide where the source of such speculation come from if at all possible (i.e. "Animage" or "Manga") and identify the spoiler tag with the use of the subject title (see the paragraph below how to do this). Untagged spoilers are risking a ban for the poster. Please use the Report button http://forums.animesuki.com/images/buttons/report.gif if you see any unmarked manga spoilers.

If you don't know how to use a spoiler tag, please read the BB Code FAQ (http://forums.animesuki.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#spoiler).

Spoiler tag examples
Text to be hidden becomes
Text to be hidden
Text to be hidden becomes
Text to be hidden
Finally, please remain on-topic and do not use this thread if it's just discussion about the current or previous anime episodes.

Lanis

2008-04-22, 00:32

Anyone know why Mikhail has elf ears in the opening sequence?

Nightengale

2008-04-22, 00:50

Anyone know why Mikhail has elf ears in the opening sequence?

He's clearly part-Zentradi.

DonQuigleone

2008-04-22, 02:46

Anyone know who that weird guy/girl is at the end of the op, with the spiky blond hair?

Westlo

2008-04-22, 02:52

I believe we have zero information on him/her atm.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-22, 04:57

well, certainly has mixed blood.

i heard some people speculating that he might be an enemy "pilot" i fricking hope not.

but at the same time it's giving me Macross II vibes,

i won't be surprised when the VAJRA fleet pulls up, and one of their ships has this person on board "SINGING" all the warrior VAJRA to battle.....

:rolleyes:

Shiroth

2008-04-22, 05:13

What do people think about episode 06's title?

'Bye Bye Sheryl'

Any ideas?

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-22, 05:13

Or in the spirit of Macross Plus a pilot of SMS's competition.

If she is I'm betting they're located at the nearby Macross Galaxy fleet.

Nightengale

2008-04-22, 05:32

I believe we have zero information on him/her atm.

I'd say there's a safe 60% chance ★ Souichiro is the seiyuu though. :heh:

DonQuigleone

2008-04-22, 06:33

There's also that blue haired girl in the OP, she seems Zentraedi, bu she could also be in in the enemy fleet

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-22, 06:47

Or an unseen bridge bunny judging by the uniform.

Wait can we call them bridge bunnies?

They're not exactly in Battle Frontier.

Cadorna

2008-04-22, 07:42

What do people think about episode 06's title?

'Bye Bye Sheryl'

Any ideas?

i think is the end of her carrear as songtress

4Tran

2008-04-22, 07:58

There's also that blue haired girl in the OP, she seems Zentraedi, bu she could also be in in the enemy fleet
There's no need to speculate on that since she wears both a Macross Frontier head band and the SMS triple-hex insignia.

Her name is Klein Klan, and she'll probably pilot the red Queadluun-Rau we see in the preview for episode 4.

Wait can we call them bridge bunnies?

They're not exactly in Battle Frontier.
While they're not on the bridge of Battle Frontier, I don't see why they shouldn't be considered bridge bunnies. After all, the term originated with SDF Macross, and it'd be a shame to see such a historic term go to waste due to a technicality :).

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-22, 08:05

i think is the end of her carrear as songtress

Actually more likely she's going back to Macross Galaxy. (There's a reason she's called the Galaxy's Fairy)

Both Macross Frontier and Macross Galaxy are on a parallel course to the center regions of the galaxy.

Much like Macross 7 and Macross 5 were in the same general neighborhood.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-22, 08:09

There's also that blue haired girl in the OP, she seems Zentraedi, bu she could also be in in the enemy fleet

oh please. i hope that's false, as much as i love Macross II & Macross 7, i don't think i can stand another "Alien-race-but-has-humanoid-alien-controlling-them-from-behind" theme again.

can't we just have a totally alien enemy for once, in macross?

love to see a armour-less full size zentradi grapple with armour-less Big Red Bug.

it'll be godzilla/ultraman epic

:3

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-22, 08:19

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2008-04-22, 08:30

i think is the end of her carrear as songtress

Nah, it most likely just means she would be returning(or attempting to return) to her own colony ship. Don't forget, she is a guest, and she doesn't have a home here.:heh:

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-22, 08:54

Unless the Zentradi or Meltrandi has a Super XL X-Gears (flight and interface suits) heavily armed. Id say they're pretty much dead with the buillets and battlecruiser blowing beam cannon of the red Vajra.

It's like pitting a Xenomorph against a human.

Heck they just gut a Zentrandi with their claws.

I said ARMOUR-LESS.

For both.

So unless those weapons are biologically integrated into the Bug, i still think a zentradi still has a chance.

A full blood combat bred zentradi possess many biological enchantments that we still not yet fully know in detail. We do know that they are tough enough to spend time in absolute vacuum for far longer then it would be for a human, that they have a far bigger tolerance to pain and medical treatment which are suitable for battlefield situations.

DonQuigleone

2008-04-22, 10:11

Lanis

2008-04-22, 10:41

He's clearly part-Zentradi.

during the actual episodes though, his ears are normal?

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-22, 10:49

They do have hair thus pointy ears are not seen.

What are the chances the mystery of the disappearance of Megaroad-1 or the fate of Shin Kudo and Sara Nome would be revealed in Macross Frontier?

DonQuigleone

2008-04-22, 11:21

Eh his status as Zentradi is a bit mysterious. Either way the guy's awesome, I mean his teeth TINGED, that's gotta be worth GAR points... right?

glyph

2008-04-22, 11:26

I'm thinking the bugs are being controlled by the protoculture, they probably are sentient bioweapons, maybe they were formerly controlled by songs or something (hence the reaction to Ranka). Either way if surviving protoculture are behind them then we'll probably get a humanoid race appearing, on the other hand the Vajra's could have turned on their masters just like the Zentraedi.

The only problem with keeping them as xenomorph like things is that I don't know where the plot would go, one of the great things about previous Macross series is you got a realistic depiction from both sides with neither being particularly demonised (Like Gundam), It would be a shame to lose that part of the story. Plus I always thought it was great the way The Power Of Love conquered the original Zentraedi.

I speculate that the Vajra are part of the automated booby trap left behind by the Protoculture and were activated along with the Birdman relic (you'll probably need more than one of those to exterminate what was supposedly a civilization with spacefaring technology). Remember, humanity technically failed the test in Macross Zero, partly due to taking it prematurely (but the Birdman/Sara Nome later abstained from making a decision and refrained from destroying mankind). In light of this confusing stay of execution, it may be trying to locate another Nome descendant for an updated opinion on humanity to make a final decision on its fate. Sheryl almost certainly is one, and perhaps Ranka also, given her unknown heritage.

That would also also fit the codename "Vajra", as the wrathful thunderbolt of the gods.

It'll be somewhat anticlimatic to run into a living protoculture civilization though. All indications are that they have been extinct for a long while.

Nightengale

2008-04-22, 11:35

Eh his status as Zentradi is a bit mysterious. Either way the guy's awesome, I mean his teeth TINGED, that's gotta be worth GAR points... right?

Well, he is a homage to Max Jenius. He doesn't seem to be nearly as good as Max was, but he IS better than Alto, wears glasses and pilots a blue VF.

And the manga hints of a dynamic between KK, pilot of a RED Queadluun-Rau and him. Quite different though, since KK has a defect that isn't all that appealing to the natural playboy in Mikhail. :heh:

DonQuigleone

2008-04-22, 11:43

I like glyph's theory there, though I think the vajras are seeking out Ranka, I mean the previous attack was in her vicinity as well, though Sheryl's name couldn't be a coincidence, though it could be something to throw us off.

Also Mikhail< Max though that might change as Max took a while to become the awesome juggernaut he was, though he had that cool style of his throughout, which Mikhail doesn't completely hit yet. I am looking forward to future playboy antics though. Also I'm sure we'll get more awesome characters later. Max only came in around episode 10 of Macross

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-22, 12:16

Well, he is a homage to Max Jenius. He doesn't seem to be nearly as good as Max was, but he IS better than Alto, wears glasses and pilots a blue VF.

And the manga hints of a dynamic between KK, pilot of a RED Queadluun-Rau and him. Quite different though, since KK has a defect that isn't all that appealing to the natural playboy in Mikhail. :heh:

Meh Mikhail will never measure up to Nikki Basara the man that lauched a thousand and one Queadluun-Rau.

Lanis

2008-04-22, 15:38

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-22, 15:48

eh? what kind of defect?

the one that likes to commit and anchor down a wanderer?
:D

Westlo

2008-04-22, 17:07

Eh his status as Zentradi is a bit mysterious. Either way the guy's awesome, I mean his teeth TINGED, that's gotta be worth GAR points... right?

Now all he needs to do is guess someone's bust size.

DonQuigleone

2008-04-22, 18:37

Well yeah, but he only really earns those points if he guesses it while completely dominating her in a game AT THE SAME TIME.

I think the defect he's talking about can be spotted if you watch the op closely, also the wikipedia has something to say about it, I can't tell you how true it is.

Nightengale

2008-04-22, 18:42

eh? what kind of defect?

She's...

loli when miclonized.

Then again, KK is her true form is perfectly up his alley. I suppose he has the choice of playing Basara or enlarging himself ala DYRL. :D

DonQuigleone

2008-04-22, 18:48

Nightengale

2008-04-22, 19:22

It's not THAT bad if you look at the op, she seems to be around Ranka's size, unfortunately we haven't seen whether she has breasts or not in the op, so we can't really know what she looks like micloned

Well...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/chiakt/p36.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/chiakt/p37.jpg

.... >_>

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-22, 19:29

My miclonization techniques has really improved in the past 5 decades.

From giant hottie to loli.:heh:

Lanis

2008-04-22, 19:29

does she chose to be lolified or is it a glitch in the system? also, since when did zentraedi have elf ears? they were all normal in the original macross.

Lanis

2008-04-22, 19:34

also, got a pic of her in normal mode?

Nightengale

2008-04-22, 19:35

does she chose to be lolified or is it a glitch in the system? also, since when did zentraedi have elf ears? they were all normal in the original macross.

It's a glitch in her genes. Basically there's a genetic factor inside her that causes miclonization to make her look younger than she is, while returning back to her meltrandi form would restore her real look.

Well, Guld Bowman had elf-ears in Macross+, and he was a half-breed.

also, got a pic of her in normal mode?

There's that split-second OP shot. Pretty good enough of a look.

And the manga's...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/chiakt/p13.jpg

Lanis

2008-04-22, 19:46

holy crap Chun Li thighs

Cadorna

2008-04-22, 20:52

does she chose to be lolified or is it a glitch in the system? also, since when did zentraedi have elf ears? they were all normal in the original macross.

they have elf ears from dyrl in advance, i think the authors thougth they look cool and letf it

Westlo

2008-04-23, 00:35

Okay Klein Klan should be awesome, I never put together that in the OP she was in it twice, just thought they had they had the same color hair. Speaking of the manga how far ahead is it from the anime atm? 1 more episode roughly or maybe 2? It's a monthly release right so it should be overtaken by the anime rather quickly.

DonQuigleone

2008-04-23, 01:11

I always thought the different looks to her in the op were weird, cause I thought they were the same character what with having the exact same cloths on, down to the bandana.

Actually the shot of her in the op is way to brief to be caught by anyone but those who recorded it and played it back in slomo, so it must be an easter egg of sorts, they might extend the timing of that shot when the big reveal happens, also do we need the spoilers considering the entire thread is supposed to contain spoilers

Westlo

2008-04-23, 01:16

I briefly caught her large version in the OP (seen it enough.. lol) and just passed her off as another Meltrandi.. I was more interested in the Destroid Bomber in that scene tbh...

4Tran

2008-04-23, 02:12

also do we need the spoilers considering the entire thread is supposed to contain spoilers
Considering that the origin of the spoiler is the manga, I consider the spoiler tags to be absolutely necessary. The point of the spoiler tag is two-fold: to keep people from inadvertently finding out what will happen in the show, and to keep people from inadvertently finding out what will happen in the other works like the manga.

On the other hand, discussion of what happens in the OP or other depicted material is fair game even without spoiler tags.

Nightengale

2008-04-23, 03:23

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-23, 06:17

Well...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/chiakt/p36.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/chiakt/p37.jpg

.... >_>

woah.

i have to say i'm really surprised.

never thought i'll see a .....well...you know.....in Macross.

no wait. wasn't their one in Macross Zero? Sara's...?

or did she not qualify as one?

either way, this is hilarious, certainly love her full meltrandi form, so sexy.

Macross: where bigger really is better.

:p:D

DonQuigleone

2008-04-23, 08:18

I don't think she qualified, she had a chest for one .

On another point entirely who do y'all think the 2 girls floating in space are, one with pink hair, the other blue hair with red eyes, towards the end of the op. They seem pretty surreal looking, they could be supposed to symbolise Ranka and Sheryl, though it doesn't fit very well, maybe they have something to do with the androgynous blond haired dude.

Westlo

2008-04-23, 08:43

I thought that was Ranka and Sheryl with "lighting" effects making their hair color look like that, they have the same eye colors and hairstyle for one.

It's Chapter 4 atm.

Chapter 3 is the coming episode, so I presume the anime will have caught up within 2 more episodes.

Thanks for the response.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-23, 09:54

hmmm....makes me want to get the manga now.

[Since the manga seems to be untranslated, discusion of how to acquire digital versions of it are not allowed. Feel free though, to discuss the content of said manga. - 4Tran]

Lanis

2008-04-23, 11:57

raws only no translation?

wingdarkness

2008-04-23, 12:58

Are there any links with some good back-story summaries, or info on this new Macross (Not named wikipedia)...Honestly I'm kinda lost since I haven't watched the genre in about 8 years? I'm just watching it for technical prowess at this point^^...

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-23, 13:17

Try Mahq.net is has anime summeries and mech and other techspecs.

4Tran

2008-04-23, 14:06

Since it looks like the manga that's being talked about is a raw, I'm going to have to ask everyone to stop asking for them or providing information on to how to get them.

Are there any links with some good back-story summaries, or info on this new Macross (Not named wikipedia)...Honestly I'm kinda lost since I haven't watched the genre in about 8 years? I'm just watching it for technical prowess at this point^^...
I'm not sure what's necessary to cover that hasn't been brought up in the Frontier's narration: Macross Frontier is one of the colony fleets that was launched from Eden as part of the second wave of human expansion.

To my knowledge, there is no background information on any of the characters aside from the anime and manga, and there is no data on any of the technologies outside of them.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-23, 15:38

...

*sigh*

so...

erm......

VAJRA.......are bugs? or.....crustaceans?

........

speculate....

please. :uhoh:

DonQuigleone

2008-04-23, 15:41

I'm thinking anthropods

wingdarkness

2008-04-23, 18:25

Since it looks like the manga that's being talked about is a raw, I'm going to have to ask everyone to stop asking for them or providing information on to how to get them.

I'm not sure what's necessary to cover that hasn't been brought up in the Frontier's narration: Macross Frontier is one of the colony fleets that was launched from Eden as part of the second wave of human expansion.

To my knowledge, there is no background information on any of the characters aside from the anime and manga, and there is no data on any of the technologies outside of them.

Alright then...That makes me feel a little better because I felt like I was missing out on some info I needed to enjoy the show to the fullest...I guess this sensation I'm feeling is called newness...

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-23, 18:27

I'm thinking anthropods

is there a difference?

I also heard someone mention "cyborg" as the VAJRA have cybernetic integrated into their body, which i think if proven true, that i doubt they are related to Proto-culture.

you just have to look at the zentradi's, they did not much cybernetics, except for the fleet commander in the original who was ridiculously modified.

even betrai(?) the advisor, and eventually macross 7 crew member had enhancements, but a biologically modification, as to his head so that he could store the vast information he had accumulated.

using mechanical enhancements seem different sort of philosophy compared to the Proto-culture.

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-23, 18:32

Actually that was Exodol.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-23, 19:34

Actually that was Exodol.

yeah. i meant Exodol.

i suck at remembering names.

:rolleyes:

DonQuigleone

2008-04-24, 01:22

It's fairly probably that the vajra's are cybernetic, I can't see any organic organism having integrated laser weapons

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-24, 01:51

It's fairly probably that the vajra's are cybernetic, I can't see any organic organism having integrated laser weapons

Birdman of Macross Zero

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2008-04-24, 02:13

It's fairly probably that the vajra's are cybernetic, I can't see any organic organism having integrated laser weapons

Lasers are just light beams. It is technically possible in a scifi setting for a biological weapon to have powerful photon emission organs.

Although you are probably talking about the beam weapons, not lasers. But since we don't have real-life beam weapons I can't tell you how likely it is.:heh:

4Tran

2008-04-24, 02:20

Alright then...That makes me feel a little better because I felt like I was missing out on some info I needed to enjoy the show to the fullest...I guess this sensation I'm feeling is called newness...
As far as Macross Frontier is concerned, you know as much as the rest of us (even if the manga is very similar to the anime, it's only a little ahead), so we all get to experience the show at the same time. Where it helps to be more familiar to the overall Macross storyline is that we can see extra bits of detail where other viewers may not.

you just have to look at the zentradi's, they did not much cybernetics, except for the fleet commander in the original who was ridiculously modified.
As a rule, I don't think that you can assume that how the Zentradi use technology is representative of how the Protoculture did so.

DonQuigleone

2008-04-24, 04:37

Birdman was probably Cybernetic too. Though frankly it's not even clear they're organic either.

I was under the impression that beam weapons were laser or Plasma weapons, both would be difficult to make organically, though I suppose anything's possible where the protoculture are involved

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-24, 06:43

As a rule, I don't think that you can assume that how the Zentradi use technology is representative of how the Protoculture did so.

true.

but a lot of evidence point to the hypothesis that the proto-culture was VERY ADVANCED in genetic engineering.

while the lack of any visible biological weaponry in the combat designed zentradi race is debatable, it is in no doubt they are more or less designed on the genetic level to be sufficiently considered efficient for combat in space or s gravity well without the use of any visible non-biological cybernetics in the standard troop, not even machine-organic interfacing ports for obvious mechanical armour suit/weapon.

The cybernetics of the VAJRA seem very mechanical, as in armour which is directly bonded to organic interfaces, & etc, etc. which in my opinion suggest a different line of thinking, if not less superior sign of technological advancement.

I was under the impression that beam weapons were laser or Plasma weapons, both would be difficult to make organically, though I suppose anything's possible where the protoculture are involved

Well considering that the proto-culture developed BIOLOGICAL weapons (Protodeviln) which are equipped with ORGANIC INTER-DEMENSIONAL GENERATORS, i won't be surprised if the can create genetic creatures which can shoot plasma or even something similar to lazers.

DonQuigleone

2008-04-24, 12:46

4Tran

2008-04-24, 13:01

Protodevilin are nothing like Zentradi. I'll post a more complete explanation in the Macross 7 thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1556660&postcount=71).

but a lot of evidence point to the hypothesis that the proto-culture was VERY ADVANCED in genetic engineering.
You seem to be talking about something very different from cybernetics. Furthermore, my point was more that the Protoculture had lots of technologies that the Zentradi had no knowledge of, so we can't accurately gauge what the former were capable of based solely on what we see the latter use.

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-24, 13:18

With exception of the Birdman of course which resembles more the Vajra in terms biomech technology.

If we were to trace the evolution of Protoculture weapons technology.

Zentradi + Mecha ----> Vajra? (Missing link) -----> Birdman ----> Evil Series (Protodevlin)

What we do know about the Protoculture is that make war by proxy and don't fight themselves. (Except the Anima Spiritia users in the Protodevlin war)

DonQuigleone

2008-04-24, 14:16

I think it's perfectly possible within Macross for them genetically engineer something and then add mechanical components. Also thanks for the link 4tran

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-24, 15:02

I'm beaten due to never seeing Macross 7 :P. What were the specifics of the Protodeviln and their inter dimensional generator things.

Weren't they Super Zentradi that were possesed by beings from another dimension? Were they possessed due to the aforementioned generators? Also is it possible that the generators were grafted when they proverbially came out of the vat? (if that's how zentraedi or protodeviln are born, they were manufactured so to speak right?)
From Wikipedia
Hundreds of thousands of years ago, the Stellar Republic of a race known as the Protoculture controlled much of the Milky Way. They genetically created giant humanoid warriors known as the Zentradi and manipulated Earth's native life to shape the evolution of what would become humanity. However, internal divisions and conflicts within the Stellar Republic led to a project to create a race of even more advanced Zentradi to fight the ongoing wars. These beings, dubbed the Evil (pronounced "eh-vil") series of warriors, were initially unsuccessful due to their high energy requirements; nevertheless, the project was reopened upon the discovery of a sub-universe containing abundant energy. However, experiments to develop organs capable of utilising this energy inadvertently allowed non-corporeal beings within the sub-universe to cross into our universe. These beings possessed the Evil entities, and used them to wreak immense havoc. The Protoculture called these beings in their new form the Protodeviln.

krln99

2008-04-25, 00:11

Judging from Episode 4, we know that the Varja are very susceptible to Zentradi weapons. Whereas human weapons do little to no damage against them. One shot of a very old Zentradi shoulder-fired cannon blows them into bits

This fact, coupled with the attack on Ranka's ship (when she was a child) almost certainly links the Zentradi and the Varja (perhaps through the Protoculture?) The question is how.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-26, 17:47

i did some analyse on the weapon thing, i think i'll just quote them here for reference.

nice catch Spitfire.

after looking up the information, i concur with your analysis. job's a good 'um

:D

as previous comments has answered the question about the weapons effectiveness and why is human-zentradi "modern" technology is so ineffective.

one probably answer is that their so few examples of the weapon in the surviving remnants of Boddole Zer Main Fleet (Space War I) that reverse engineering of the technology was difficult, since from the TV series we know they had a few of those liquid plasma rifles.

the other reason is that all the automated factories which manufactured the weapons for the fleet did not have the "plans" for the weapons so did not produce this weapon for that zentradi fleet in that sector of the galaxy before they ceased operation.

Speculation is that the zentradi fleets have no mobile automated factories (such as the ones in all macross colony fleets) to produce advanced weaponry or weapon systems, although logical conclusion that the more simpler weapons were constructed and obviously maintained a sufficient production to armed new zentradi clone troops with basic weapons, ammo, armour suits and spare parts.

We can tell they aren't surprised by the weapon, which is why they probably ignored it, along with the zentradi space hulk.

the other reason why UN spacy do not employ plasma weaponry is another simply human reason, current kinetic weaponry, native or zentradi ("Impact" cannons) have been more then sufficient for all the current conflict between zentradi-zentradi encounters (Supervisor Army) and zentradi-human encounters.

really no need to go to the length to make them, although the fact that Michael sniper weaponry is effective, is probably proof that humans have not entirely given up on energy based weapons, as it looks more like linear electromagnetic-plasma. i.e. railgun, combining a kinetic slug with a plasma-shell (railgun use plasma to propel the solid slug down the barrel, hence electromagnetic barrier to contain the plasma)

just see the video below, you can see the plasma exiting the barrel behind the solid kinetic round.
quite beautiful if you ask me.

b_OjZyQ6LGE

well, we now know that Bug armour is vulnerable to energy weaponry, even zentradi "impact" cannon rounds at point blank range cannot penetrate it.

it makes the kills in episode one by S.M.S even more impressive if you think about it.

then this came up:

you know, i keep re-watching the bit where Quan Quan shoots the bug, you notice her main cannon shooting point blank looks remarkably similar to the weapon Alto picks-up, while it's possible that the housing of the weapon is a standard pattern, since we see alot of modern weapons using the same basic design and parts, yet can fire different calibres or use different mechanics, won't be surprised if the Zentradi used the same concept. Certainly makes weapons maintenance very easy for all types used.

It makes me wonder if the cannon Quan Quan use is actually a liquid plasma cannon as well, it certainly "splashed" and the "colour" (orange) of the weapon projectile looks the same.

but then again, the enemy weapon also discharge an "orange" beam like projectile, either this means the weapon they use is plasma based or just a coincident i don't know.

but what i realise is that the dent in the armour could be more or less the real reason why Alto could kill it in one shot.

I think if Quan Quan had the chance to shoot again in the same place, the weapon would of killed the bug in the same fashion as well.

but this is speculation at best. have to wait for some specs to show up.

:)

personally the more i watch episode 4, i think the idea of Quan Quan having a liquid plasma cannon isn't impossible, i mean the only specs we have is that the suit she's using only has an "impact" cannon, but those are from typical armament specs from 2017-18, largely historical.

It can't be said that this will be true in 2059.

after all the armaments on a F-16 is significantly different on a F-16E

They have a different electronic package and missile payload.

Besides Zentradi still use traditional zentradi tech, but with a few improvements anyway.

Tak

2008-04-26, 18:05

Whereas human weapons do little to no damage against them. One shot of a very old Zentradi shoulder-fired cannon blows them into bits

Not quite. Mikael was picking off targets with his sniper rifle, and the small Vajra are not very resistant to human guns. Moreover, Mikael's sniper fire had no problems piercing through a larger Vajra, its just that one shot usually won't get the job done. Quran Quran's missile barrage also had little to no impact against the Vajra. And if not for the crack she had made on the Vajra's armor, perhaps Alto wouldn't be as successful even with that old Zent gun equipped.

personally the more i watch episode 4, i think the idea of Quan Quan having a liquid plasma cannon isn't impossible, i mean the only specs we have is that the suit she's using only has an "impact" cannon, but those are from typical armament specs from 2017-18, largely historical.

It is highly possible Quran Quran (somebody tell me where Klan Klein came from please? It doesn't even sound Meltlandi) was using plasma weapons.

Unfortunately, no official source material ever indicated just what type of 'standard' weaponry were being utilized for the Zjentohlauedy/Meltlandi forces. Although one thing for sure, the Zents/Melts never relied on ballistic weaponry as much as humans do. Most of their weapons, save for missiles, are energy based.

UN SPACY did toy with certain aspects of Zent/Melt weapons. Most notably the YF-21, which had a rather similar configuration as the Queadluun-Rau. Then again, official materials did indicate that the YF-21 was influenced by the Queadluun-Rau.

Although most Zents tend to have excessive pride regarding their weaponry, and they rather not pilot a Valkyrie.

I don't think UN SPACY technology ever quite caught up.

- Tak (It would appear, I've somehow recovered my user name...)

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-28, 15:43

speculation for episode 5.

sheryl caught Altro near his school, or close by.

evidence: he is wearing his uniform, obviously on the way there.

evidence 2: no prior evidence suggest she knows where he lives, hence in ep2 she went to the S.M.S building and not to his house/place.

evidence 3: she knows he is from the fleets most "prestige fleet school" so she wait for him nearby, because the information was available from the beginning provided by cathy/and or the organisers of the concert.

question: how does to tie in with the erm....raunchy preview?

theory: because sheryl is near a school, some student spot her.

evidence: her disguise pathetic and is worse then the last one.

conclusion: she will gather a lot of attention and fans.

this will lead to a cat and mouse chase, with both of them. fans want sheryl and simultaneously kill the man wearing the same uniform as them, that she seems to be holding hands "affectionately" with.

theory: Altro will try to find a place to hide, either nearby the school or in he school itself.

conclusion: Altro & Sheryl will have to hide together, in a dark place.

evidence: the preview was dark and she seems to be pushed or cramped.

maybe they hid in a store room, or a locker or something cramped, to get away from the mob of students.

theory: Ranka/Nena will see them running away together.
conclusion: misunderstanding.

evidence: my hentai intuition

:)

Nightengale

2008-04-29, 01:04

Well, the extra teaser shots in the official Macross website does show a few more things, though the scene above is still possible...

Sheryl and Alto seemingly on a date (( duh )) outside with them riding the tram and...dun dun dun, Sheryl gives Alto a peck... on his cheek.

ReddyRedWolf

2008-04-29, 03:28

Okay looking over back at Protoculture history in Macross 7.

* The Protoculture were spilt into 2 factions.

* The Zentradi were used for proxy warfare.

* One side developed the Evil series to destroy the Zentradi but was possesed by the extradimensional Protodevlin.

* The Supervision Army came to be because of the Protodevlin.

Looking at the patterns it became a three way warfare.

The Protoculture were wiped out by the massive spiritia drain by Gepelnitch save for a few that possesed Anima Spiritia that managed to seal them.

It was never said that the Protoculture reunited.

So the Vajra may be one of the super weapons project of one of the sides of the conflict.

Likely not those who developed the Evil series.

Westlo

2008-04-29, 06:48

With recent news... time to speculate... Ranka gets fired from Nyan Nyan... and gets a job at Pizza Hut instead!

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-29, 12:08

With recent news... time to speculate... Ranka gets fired from Nyan Nyan... and gets a job at Pizza Hut instead!

LOL!

:D

i hope not, nipple breast meat buns FTW

squaresphere

2008-04-29, 13:35

Another completely without backing speculation. I think Leon will invite another military contractor to the Macross Frontier in order to not only snub Omza but to introduce the mysterious fighter that might have a better standard weapons load out than the VF-25

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-29, 15:20

Skane

2008-04-30, 15:54

Lately I have been thinking... what if the decisive battle involves Alto having to do the Kabuki-dance? :heh:

Heh.

cerrian

2008-04-30, 22:17

Maybe somebody could clarify this for me. Every time I watch the OP and see the colonization routes I keep thinking that the 21st fleet (Galaxy) is suppose to play some kind of important role in the story. I don't think the 21st fleet has even been mentioned in the 4 episodes so far. Perhaps someone has an idea if and how the Galaxy fleet might tie in to Frontier's story.

4Tran

2008-04-30, 23:05

Well, Sheryl seems to originate from Macross Galaxy, but that's as much importance that can be attributed to that aspect of the story. It's certainly possible for the Galaxy fleet to play a much bigger part, but we won't know for at least a few episodes. Besides, at this time we don't know anything about Macross Galaxy (or the Vajra, for that matter).

Westlo

2008-04-30, 23:19

I thought it was confirmed (not in any actual episode) that Galaxy was frontier's sister fleet, similar to the one in 7... was it 5? been a few years since I watched that...

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-01, 02:31

I thought it was confirmed (not in any actual episode) that Galaxy was frontier's sister fleet, similar to the one in 7... was it 5? been a few years since I watched that...

really?

that's strange because Macross frontier was launched around 2012, a 2nd generation ship, originally from Earth.

Basically part of the changing philosophy of colonial strategy, of providing colony fleets with more protection as oppose to the non-transforming Megaroad class.

Eden was colonies in 2013 by Megaroad 04, (one year!) from there Macross Galaxy was launched, which will make Macross Galaxy technically part of the 2nd colonial wave.

so, unless the definition of a "Sister" fleet means something different in the Macross universe, i doubt it is a "sister" fleet.

edit: Unless of course, M-Galaxy has the same colonial class ships as M-Frontier, but only newer?

Westlo

2008-05-01, 09:15

Maybe sister fleet is the wrong term (Galaxy is the 21st fleet though going by the first scene in episode 1 so they should be pretty similar or close) but they are traveling parallel to each other in the same direction. We should get a good look at Macross Galaxy some time this season, looking at episode titles maybe sooner than later.. Also maybe the guy voiced by Hoshi at the end of the OP is from Galaxy?

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-01, 10:38

erm....

the number don't really make a difference, M-Frontier is the 25th fleet from EARTH.

M-Galaxy is the 21st fleet from EDEN.

even if they are close numerically, it's just a coincident.

I mean M-Frontier actually went wide towards the Galactic rim, before looping anti-spiralward (not quite as far as Eden) before heading towards the galactic core.

M-Galaxy on the other hand, left Eden and went straight towards the core.

It's obviously that M-Frontier was deliberately routed toward the core, probably by the direction of UN Spacy HQ. While M-Galaxy was planned from the start to go in that direction.

Tak

2008-05-01, 16:12

Some things are confirmed in Episode 5, such as:

The Vajra are revealed by our very helpful Leon (asshole) as pilot-less biological weapons. And yes, they react to Ranka's songs

Besides, at this time we don't know anything about Macross Galaxy (or the Vajra, for that matter).

First of all, Macross Galaxy, according to Sheryl, is not exactly an interesting place to be at. But,

According to the end of Episode 5, a pilot barely escaped with his life from Macross Galaxy and is calling for help. Not hard to guess what happened.

So, there you have it for MACROSS GALAXY.

- Tak

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-01, 17:01

AlaAlba

2008-05-01, 19:47

I wonder what the meaning behind next title episode "Bye Bye Sheryl"? Macross Galaxy were under attacked anyway so I think she cant go back that easily...

ipernorris

2008-05-02, 11:27

Some things are confirmed in Episode 5, such as:

The Vajra are revealed by our very helpful Leon (asshole) as pilot-less biological weapons. And yes, they react to Ranka's songs

I think it's crucial to understand if Vajra reacts to songs in general or to Ranka's songs only: this may be the explanation about why Ranka survived and the other passangers did not.

According to the end of Episode 5, a pilot barely escaped with his life from Macross Galaxy and is calling for help. Not hard to guess what happened.

So, there you have it for MACROSS GALAXY.

- Tak
Yeah I think we won't see Macross Galaxy, but this means that...

the Vajra aren't just small groups of hostile aliens, but they are an organized and powerful civilization because only this way they can take down an entire colonization fleet. What we've seen so far are just scouts I guess.

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-02, 12:01

Seeing the reaction of the Vajra to Ranka's song I may have to re-evaluate who is behind the Vajra.

The Vajra was in a state of near death only to be revaltilized by Ranka's song.

In Macross 7 sound energy can increase the Spiritia within lifeforms.

I think the energy we saw on the Vajra is Spiritia.

If this is so Macross Frontier isn't facing any ordinary Protoculture by-product of war, they are facing the last survivors of the Protoculture, the Anima Spiritia.

ApostleOfGod

2008-05-02, 15:37

Regardless of origin:

Sheryl better win between her and Ranka for Saotome. That is all.

Tak

2008-05-02, 16:43

Regardless of origin:

Sheryl better win between her and Ranka for Saotome. That is all.

That you don't have to worry. According to Macross tradition, such is the most likely pair.

- Tak (Unless Kawamori decides to pull a Tomino on us, then we are f*cked)

encia

2008-05-02, 17:17

Tak

2008-05-02, 17:21

How about Macross Zero's birdman unit, Sara's song and resulting life regeneration? Vajra's markings is similar to Macross Zero's markings on the floating rocks.

The BIRDMAN unit was neither a Supervision unit nor a Zentradi unit. It was a Protoculture biomechanical unit, which was very similar to the Vajra, but vastly more powerful.

Indeed, the folks at Macross F is facing 'THE' protoculture.

- Tak (If we are lucky, we might even see the 'Birdman' supporting Vajra warriors)

encia

2008-05-02, 17:31

yay for competitive market? :rolleyes:
It's capitalism...

encia

2008-05-02, 17:37

The BIRDMAN unit was neither a Supervision unit nor a Zentradi unit. It was a Protoculture biomechanical unit, which was very similar to the Vajra, but vastly more powerful.
)
The birdman unit has the materialization technology.
Materialization corresponds to comparably large energy requirement and production.

Indeed, the folks at Macross F is facing 'THE' protoculture.

- Tak (If we are lucky, we might even see the 'Birdman' supporting Vajra warriors)
I was focusing on the common spiral markings.

Well M-F's screenwriter Hiroyuki Yoshino also help in writing Mai-HIME/Mai-Otome i.e. similarities between controllers/conductor/slave lord and bio-mechanical slave units.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-02, 17:58

that makes me wonder, wil lwe find a SARA in stasis of a "Birdman"?

Will Nome see a family resemblance? or not?

That is the question.

:D

SpaceDrake

2008-05-02, 18:05

that makes me wonder, wil lwe find a SARA in stasis of a "Birdman"?

Will Nome see a family resemblance? or not?

That is the question.

:D

It's pretty obvious really.

I doubt they're sisters, but I suspect Ranka and Sheryl are related somehow, and I suspect the Vajra are searching for the two of them. Are we forgetting how the big Vajra was hesitating before Ranka? Was it confirming what she was? It didn't hesitate to kill Gilliam or attack anything that got in its way, and it could blast Ranka to ash in a second if it wanted to. So why didn't it? Why was it looking at her for so long? Simple: it was sent to retrieve her and it was confirming that she was the target.

Cadorna

2008-05-02, 18:34

06 "Bye Bye Sheryl" May 8, 2008

07 "First Attack" May 15, 2008

08 "High School Queen" May 22, 2008

09 "Friendly Fire" May 29, 2008

I found this to speculate about, so who is gonna be shot down in ep 9, i think shouta will

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-02, 19:11

Westlo

2008-05-02, 19:48

I knew you would say that lol.

Regardless of origin:

Sheryl better win between her and Ranka for Saotome. That is all.

I really don't see Ranka being the key to the Varja in some way as well as winning the love battle and like Tak said Sheryl is more in line with past Kawamori winners than Ranka. While he's not writing or directing this it's obvious it's his choice... need some Misa and Sheryl together fanart!

I found this to speculate about, so who is gonna be shot down in ep 9, i think shouta will

Could be conflict with another military group, think the guy near the end of the OP.

ApostleOfGod

2008-05-02, 21:54

Cadorna

2008-05-02, 22:17

mmm with the end of this ep i could say is the sheryl 's farewell for her home M-Galaxy or vicersa

Tabris

2008-05-03, 05:48

It's pretty obvious really.

I doubt they're sisters, but I suspect Ranka and Sheryl are related somehow, and I suspect the Vajra are searching for the two of them. Are we forgetting how the big Vajra was hesitating before Ranka? Was it confirming what she was? It didn't hesitate to kill Gilliam or attack anything that got in its way, and it could blast Ranka to ash in a second if it wanted to. So why didn't it? Why was it looking at her for so long? Simple: it was sent to retrieve her and it was confirming that she was the target.

I'm only kidding, but, IT WAS THE VAJRA THAT AVENGED IT'S FAMILY'S DEATH BY KILLING RANKA'S FAMILY 11 YEARS AGO AND IT CAME TO M-FRONTIER TO FINISH THE JOB IT STARTED. :)

ipernorris

2008-05-03, 05:49

Forget the friendly fire, that's in weeks.

That 06 is scaring me.... Damn...
Sheyl isn't going to bite the dust, don't worry... :D

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-04, 05:51

I have suspicion on who the mysterious Mr. Viller could be.

Mr. Viller seems to have one mechanical eye and could very well be a Zentradi.

I think Mr. Viller is Breetai.

We never did know what happened to him.

In Macross Plus he wasn't present in 30th anniversary celebration.

Breetai could be hiding in the shadows as the benefactor of SMS.

Tak

2008-05-04, 09:51

We never did know what happened to him.
[/SPOILER]

Actually we do. After Space War I, he became the supreme commander of all UN SPACY naval forces. He is presumed to be still alive and floating around the galaxy in his massive 2,000 KM long flagship somewhere.

He was never miclonized (and I doubt thats something he'd do, either).

- Tak

Cadorna

2008-05-04, 13:33

Kikuchi

2008-05-04, 17:28

That would be, like, totally awesome.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-04, 19:49

i will hope for this with my entire soul

I will hope not with my entire soul.

:rolleyes:

Tak

2008-05-04, 19:58

I will hope not with my entire soul.

No kidding. I second that completely ;)

Besides, I for one would not want to mess with the Supreme Commander of UN SPACY, unless I have a death wish. I mean, the very thought of micloning him is... well, I leave the rest to your imagination...

- Tak

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-04, 20:10

I mean, the very thought of micloning him is... well, I leave the rest to your imagination...

- Tak

No doubt if it happens, his miclone self will turn out to be some little shouta just to spite me.

:uhoh:

Cadorna

2008-05-04, 22:24

i m not hope for the miclone part, the other part

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-04, 23:05

mmm with the end of this ep i could say is the sheryl 's farewell for her home M-Galaxy or vicersa

Or, it could be it's Alto saying Good-bye?

My theory is that a task force is going to be assembled to go off and help M-Galaxy.

So alto has to say "bye bye" to sheryl instead of the other way round.

Because really, once they get that message about the attack, all flights to M-Galaxy are bound to be delayed.

But one of the interesting facts, is that I think M-Galaxy likes to keeps it's Shell DOWN, since sheryl looks up into the sky and says "Galaxy is enclosed" .

I guess they don't like using the clear dome feature.

Unlike Frontier.

So i reckon it's going to be a little bit more protected, but it doesn't mean it's going to stop them from getting in.

velocity7

2008-05-04, 23:26

Any thoughts on the song for episode 6?

My bets are on Diamond Crevasse for the concert.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-04, 23:56

dunno, but we only heard three songs that appears on the frontier OST, so i think we still got a few new ones to be played.

Tak

2008-05-05, 00:09

Any thoughts on the song for episode 6?

My bets are on Diamond Crevasse for the concert.

Or maybe it'd be the enka song from Folmo, known to the rest of the Macross world as 宇宙兄弟船 (Ship of all brothers in the universe, or make up your own combinations)

:D

- Tak (Yes, the title of the song was too freakish weird for me)

SpaceDrake

2008-05-05, 01:48

Any thoughts on the song for episode 6?

My bets are on Diamond Crevasse for the concert.

I am fairly sure

that much like previous episodes, the concert will cut between the action with SMS; the song will be Diamond Crevasse, and the 'action' will be SMS discovering the still-smouldering, corpse-choked ruins of Macross Galaxy.

A long, long goodbye...

Also, that scene at the end of the ED credits with Diamond Crevasse seems to happen in episode 6 from the preview, so there's also that.

It's going to be the most depressing thing ever. :(

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-05, 02:38

Or maybe it'd be the enka song from Folmo, known to the rest of the Macross world as 宇宙兄弟船 (Ship of all brothers in the universe, or make up your own combinations)

:D

- Tak (Yes, the title of the song was too freakish weird for me)

oh god. zentradi enka...just what we needed.....:rolleyes:

But that'll be sad if we have another colony fleet taken out, that'll make...what? three fleets so far?

Megaroad 01, Macross 05 and finally Macross 21?

I hope not.... :upset:

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-05, 02:40

oh god. zentradi enka...just what we needed.....:rolleyes:

But that'll be sad if we have another colony fleet taken out, that'll make...what? three fleets so far?

Megaroad 01, Macross 05 and finally Macross 21?

I hope not.... :upset:

Don't forget Megaroad 13.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-05, 02:46

Don't forget Megaroad 13.

oh? what happened to Megaroad 13? did i forget something?

*is waiting for a flashback*

Well, it's been 14yrs since i last saw 2012.

:rolleyes:

SpaceDrake

2008-05-05, 02:50

We technically don't actually know what happened to the SDF-2. They lost contact, no wreckage was ever found.

(I totally expect the SDF-2 to be addressed in this series.)

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-05, 02:55

We technically don't actually know what happened to the SDF-2. They lost contact, no wreckage was ever found.

(I totally expect the SDF-2 to be addressed in this series.)

true, but if we are counting the number of fleets which have had a fatal incident happen to them, then a lost of galactic communication with the rest of it's civilization is more or less the same as being attack by aliens and having the entire population brainwashed, spiritia drained, killed or decimated.

Westlo

2008-05-05, 03:03

Next episode is called "Bye Bye Sheryl" because it's suppose to be her farewell concert to Frontier as she heads back to Galaxy. Remember she tells Alto she's going back and tells him she'll send a ticket to her farewell concert. She, Alto and the Frontier public don't know about the Galaxy attack.

Also pic from the website for episode 6

http://www.macrossf.com/image/story/story_pic_06_01.jpg

As for what songs Sheryl will sing... well I'm thinking two.. Diamond Crevasse will be done 100%, the cd single gets released a day or two before so they would be stupid not to push that song hard and show off more of it aside from the tv edit ED. Also she's in a very similar outfit to the last image in the ED credits. Looking at the OST I'm thinking she will also do

2. Welcome To My FanClub’s Night!　(Sheryl On Stage)

Since Don't Be Late was the big song from Deculture and was all over the CM/Trailers/Sponsor section. Also What bout my star got played twice last episode.

I don't think there will be much action next episode... episode 7 is called "First Attack" after all.. so that should be the episode with the action at Macross Galaxy and probably the most action packed episode yet.

Personally I think Galaxy will get wiped out (or at least heavily damaged) by the swarm of Varja which would keep Sheryl on Frontier to continue the interaction and adventures of the main trio.

Now for the episode titles for 7-9..

7. First Attack - Fighting at Macross Galaxy for sure
8. High School Queen - Ranka after being signed by her Zentradi manager? Or perhaps Sheryl goes to Alto's school? Or does Princess Alto turn into Queen Alto ;)
9. Friendly Fire - Ranka and Sheryl? Over singing or Alto or both? But I think this refers to the blonde guy at the end of the OP voiced by Hoshi if he's not connected to the Varja or whatever controls them. If Galaxy gets wiped out I'm sure reinforcements will come in, also he needs to be introduced soon..

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-05, 03:23

oh? what happened to Megaroad 13? did i forget something?

*is waiting for a flashback*

Well, it's been 14yrs since i last saw 2012.

:rolleyes:

The fleet that went to Varuta. AKA the New Supervision Army.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-05, 04:00

The fleet that went to Varuta. AKA the New Supervision Army.

no. your confusing it with Macross 5.

I was wondering why you mentioned megaroad 13, the only time i remember that fleet being mentioned was in flashback 2012.

I know for certain the fleet that went to Varuta did not have a Megaroad Class colony ship.

In Macross 7, it was shown and mentioned that the fleet that was lost inthe Varuta system was the same class as Macross 7, hence Macross 5, destroyed 2045.

ah, i found the info here.

http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nations/ships/new_macross/index.html

oh, you must of been thinking of Macross 13

i never knew that.

Its set in 2051, which is the time frame for VFX-2. Which explains why i didn't know, never played the game.

With help from former UN Spacy Commander Wilbur Garland, the New Macross Class ship Battle 13 was seized by the Vindirance terrorist forces in 2051. The Macross 13, equipped with the special missile jamming device created by the Critical Path Corporation, was used by the terrorist group to attack the UN Spacy fleet in Earth orbit. With the incredible firepower of the Battle 13 gunship at their command, and the UN Spacy fleet unable to launch an effective counter attack with the jamming device in operation, the Macross 13 destroyed several UNS warships. Fortunately, Captain Aegis Focker of the 727th Independent Special Command VF-X Ravens lead his pilots in a daring assault upon the Macross 13. Fighting past numerous Ghost X-9 fighters and Wilbur Garland himself, Captain Focker was able to destroy the jamming device mounted upon the Macross 13. In a spectacular assault, the remaining UN Spacy fleet destroyed the Macross 13 and defeated the Vindirance terrorist forces for good.

Learn something new every day.

But technically not included in my list, because it was only the ship, and not a fleet ship or any colonist were killed or destroyed.

So i'm still right.

:D

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-05, 04:53

no. your confusing it with Macross 5.

I was wondering why you mentioned megaroad 13, the only time i remember that fleet being mentioned was in flashback 2012.

I know for certain the fleet that went to Varuta did not have a Megaroad Class colony ship.

In Macross 7, it was shown and mentioned that the fleet that was lost inthe Varuta system was the same class as Macross 7, hence Macross 5, destroyed 2045.

ah, i found the info here.

http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nations/ships/new_macross/index.html

oh, you must of been thinking of Macross 13

i never knew that.

Its set in 2051, which is the time frame for VFX-2. Which explains why i didn't know, never played the game.

Learn something new every day.

But technically not included in my list, because it was only the ship, and not a fleet ship or any colonist were killed or destroyed.

So i'm still right.

:D

No it is Megaroad 13.

wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF-2_Megaroad)
In 2025, the Megaroad-13 fleet discovered a habitable planet near the center of the Milky Way. This planetary system was named the Varauta system. In total, 30 of these Megaroad class vessels were built and launched. Production ceased in the late 2020s with the introduction and launch of the first of the New Macross-class colonization ships in 2030. The Macross-7 fleet being the 37th Long Distance Colonization Fleet with Macross-7 being the 7th of the New Macross-class.*

(*)note: based on raw info from original Japanese pages of the same subjec

Macross 5 fleet was lost on Planet Lux not Varuta.

Megaroad 13 settled in the Varuta system and contact was lost.

The reason is that they were taken over by the Protodevlin that were imprisoned on the 4th planet.

Max Jenius was wondering why their new enemy has Valkyrie like fighters and asked UN Spacy command about it.

UN Spacy anwered that the Vakyrie design was similar to the ones deployed with the Megaroad 13 fleet.

As we've seen in episode 5 of Macross Frontier different fleets have different mainstay fighters.

In other words want a new shiny top of the line Valkyrie? Pay up! That capitalism for you. (Maybe UN Spacy should have gone with the X-9 Ghost:heh:)

Tak

2008-05-05, 08:57

As we've seen in episode 5 of Macross Frontier different fleets have different mainstay fighters.

We have? If you are referring to the ship that de-folded at the end of Episode 5, it does not resemble much of a fighter, at all.

As for the rest of Frontier, we've not seen anything but VF-171s, a few VF-25s and the Queadluun-Ras, with the latter two designated for special missions around the fleet.

Speaking of Varuta variable equipment, they have an uncanny resemblance to the VF-14 Vampire...

- Tak

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-05, 10:00

If you noticed the Valkyrie's profile fits the shadow in the Frontier opening.

Don't be confused by the fold booster attachment.

The VF-14 Vampire was the basis for FZ-109 Elgerzorene.

Tak

2008-05-05, 12:32

If you noticed the Valkyrie's profile fits the shadow in the Frontier opening.

Don't be confused by the fold booster attachment.

Then I suggest you look at it again.

The ship that de-folded at the end of 5 did not have vectoring thrusters typical of most Valkyries.

Moreover, the 'shadow' you are referring to does not have a straight 'delta' wing, while the de-folded craft did.

And from a production perspective, I doubt the end of Episode 5 would be the best way to introduce new Valkyries into Macross.

- Tak (But, we will confirm that in the near future, won't we?)

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-05, 13:06

No it is Megaroad 13.

wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF-2_Megaroad)

Macross 5 fleet was lost on Planet Lux not Varuta.

Megaroad 13 settled in the Varuta system and contact was lost.

The reason is that they were taken over by the Protodevlin that were imprisoned on the 4th planet.

Max Jenius was wondering why their new enemy has Valkyrie like fighters and asked UN Spacy command about it.

UN Spacy anwered that the Vakyrie design was similar to the ones deployed with the Megaroad 13 fleet.

As we've seen in episode 5 of Macross Frontier different fleets have different mainstay fighters.

In other words want a new shiny top of the line Valkyrie? Pay up! That capitalism for you. (Maybe UN Spacy should have gone with the X-9 Ghost:heh:)

okay.

this is getting confusing.

Right, let's get some facts straight.

1) All colony fleets are named after their distinctive flagship

2) All fleets that were launched with the "Megaroad" colony Class ships, are named accordingly after it.

3) All fleets that were launched with the "Macross" Military Class ships, are named accordingly after it.

4) Colony fleets only has one main military flagship and one primary colony class ship

***

So if we take this into conclusion.

We are talking about two different fleets.

Megaroad 13

and

Macross 05

Both which we have discovered have been destroyed in 2045.

But how can that be?

Did they send TWO fleets into the SAME system?

So the question you have ask is: Are these two fleets the one and the same?

But has there ever been mentioned of a fleet that included a Megaroad class colony ship and the new Macross Class battleship?

I certainly have not seen anything that has mentioned this.

Further more, i present this link to prove my point,

http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nations/ships/new_macross/index.html

that all of the fleets that included the new Macross class, were given designated UN call-sign.

Macross 1, Macross 3, Macross 7, Macross 13.

The source is considered canon.

I also present this image as evidence:

http://www2.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/87416c29bdfe9ed2876308eb7fe01cc23g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=t49mdpxpomu&thumb=4)

Highlighted in YELLOW, is the fleet named "MACROSS 05"

next to "Macross 07"

This is canon, as it has appeared in Macross Frontier anime series.

No where besides that Wikipedia entry, do i see evidence of a "Megaroad 13"

That wikipedia entry does not even have any external links to verify if it is from a reliable or canon source.

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-05, 13:53

Sigh...

There are 30 Megaroad ship fleets produced. All originating from Earth.

Macross 1 to 7 are Macross class shell dome type colony ships. (Thus 37th fleet)

Megaroad 13 fleet was lost in the Varuta system.

Macross 5 isn't anywhere in the Varuta system. The planet they landed on was Lux.

Watch episode 23 of Macross 7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj8Qo13OR_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2mzbadMk0s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO5ecmSylO8

Macross 5 just landed on planet Lux thus not yet in the Varuta army.

From Mahq.net
Max explains that all they know is that the enemy mecha closely resemble those that were sent by U.N. Spacy to the fourth planet of the Varauta system.

Sally informs Max that there's a call from the Macross 5 fleet and patches in the captain. The captain tells Max that they've found an Earth-like planet designated Lux that they've decided to settle on. He tells Max that he can drop by if he needs supplies, and he adds that Fire Bomber's songs are very popular on Macross 5 and that a live show would be a big hit.

So you see the enemy Macross 7 was facing initially were braiwashed citizens of Megaroad 13.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-05, 14:37

Well...defeated by my failing and aged memory (+stubbornness), that i can admit to.

But youtube?!

curse you, Youtube!

*shake fist in anger*

oh well, i guess that's that.

But still, your telling me they sent THREE fleets into the same area?

Megaroad 13, Macross 5 and finally Macross 7?

A bit of an over kill.

No wait! I STILL don't believe about Megaroad 13!!

Show me MOAR youtube video to backup your claim. (too lazy to search himself)

No video. no proof.

HA!

*crawls back into stubbornness shell*

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-05, 15:07

Well exploration appears to be coreward. Macross Frontier and Macross Galaxy are going into the core regions too.

But remember the galactic core is still a pretty big place.

So if Lux and Varuta are any indication, Lux having Protoculture ruins and Varuta being the Protodevlin prison, the Protoculture made their last stand in the galactic core regions.

Thus the Protoculture could be related to the Vajra and the disappearing fleets like Megaroad 1. Not all fleets were accounted for and likely their fates were kept secret from the public like the 117 Reaseach fleet.

The Vajra already have the Protoculture spiral sigil. What we know is that the Stellar Republic split into two factions. The Vajra may be the work of one of the factions.

edit:

No wait! I STILL don't believe about Megaroad 13!!

Show me MOAR youtube video to backup your claim. (too lazy to search himself)

No video. no proof.

HA!

Kicking them while their down. Cruel eh?

Macross 7 Plus: Spiritia Dreaming
http://www.youtube.com/v/zesvQ20YEEw&hl=en

Westlo

2008-05-07, 17:54

According to Macross World posters the newtype just out shows that episode 10 is

based around the filming of a movie on the events of Macross Zero with Ranka playing one of the characters

cerrian

2008-05-07, 17:58

I'm so tempted to see what's under that spoiler

....must...resist...

*sigh* off to watch Allison and Lillia to take my mind off of it.

glyph

2008-05-07, 18:11

According to Macross World posters the newtype just out shows that episode 10 is

based around the filming of a movie on the events of Macross Zero with Ranka playing one of the characters

Huh.
Aren't the events of Macross Zero supposed to be super "let us never speak of this again" top secret? Hardly the material for a movie, you'd think.

Is this a primer for future plot development?

Or in a nasty twist, are they possibly retconning M0 to "imaginary story status" , as a propaganda piece feeding a BS origin story for the Vajra to the public, starring Ranka as Mao and Sheryl as herself Sara?

Well, thats one explanation for the spoileriffic

Aimo ~ the Bird Man

soundtrack listing. Though perhaps not the only one.

Tak

2008-05-07, 18:16

Aimo ~ the Bird Man

soundtrack listing. Though perhaps not the only one.

Huh, that was just the song sang by Ranka at the end of Episode 1 and Episode 3, how much does it have to do with Zero remains to be confirmed.

- Tak

glyph

2008-05-07, 18:33

Huh, that was just the song sang by Ranka at the end of Episode 1 and Episode 3, how much does it have to do with Zero remains to be confirmed.

- Tak

That's just Aimo, right?

Supposedly, there's another version called "Aimo ~ the Bird Man".

http://gabrielarobin.com/220/macross-frontier-ost-1-tracklist

Westlo

2008-05-07, 18:36

Huh.
Aren't the events of Macross Zero supposed to be super "let us never speak of this again" top secret? Hardly the material for a movie, you'd think.

Been over 50 years so who knows what happened to keeping top secret. Doing this does show new viewers the events that occurred in Zero which are obviously tied to the Varja in addition to showing Ranka becoming a star.

Westlo

2008-05-08, 01:46

kresphy on Macross World posted the following summaries for episodes 7-10.

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?s=&showtopic=25811&view=findpost&p=591327

07(First Attack)、2008.05.15

S.M.S assist Galaxy Fleet.
When they have the advantage, a huge aircraft carrier of Vajra appears in front of them.
Alto encounter mystery Valk when he save Luca.

08(High School Queen)、2008.05.22

Ranka transfer to Mihoshi Academy High School with her dream.
There is some riots by Sheryl's visit.....

09(Friendly Fire)、2008.05.29

Mikhail make some mistakes when he get sis Jessica's information in the battle.
klan is shot down by mystery Valk. Alto set a trap for it, but Mikhail...

10(Legend of Zero)、2008.06.05

The Legend Character Shin Kudo's biography movie Macross Zero is shooting...
S.M.S's fellas undertake underwater photography job in it.
Because the heroine is injured in the movie, Ranka get a Chara.
But she must face a ... Scene with Alto.

Concerning episode 8...

Looks like they will reuse a lot of manga chapter 4 here with Ranka transferring to Alto's school and Sheryl's arrival causing riots.

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-08, 02:07

Well I guess after 5 decades much like in real life some classified documents are made public.

But given most of Earth and it's people were destroyed in space war 1 I can see why Macross fleets entertainment businesses are cashing in on real life nostalgia opera.

Latching on whatever history they had. You have to admit with the integration of the Zentradi humanity's identity has changed.

In Macross 7 people were still talking about Minmei and Hikaru. Some tabloids claimed that Basara is their child.:heh: Which was imposible since Megaroad 1 disappeared years before Basara was born. Though nobody knew who his parents were. :eyespin:

Though with Vajra being bioweapons and a mysterious Valkyrie New UN Spacy may entertain the posibilities that it is related to Sara Nome and Shin Kudo or the missing Megaroad 1.

Unless there are more missing fleets out there taken controled, like Megaroad 13 which was brainwashed by the Protodevlin.

CaptGloval

2008-05-08, 05:54

Regarding that speculation on the fate of Megaroad 1...

I think it has escaped into some other place beyond the reach of UN Spacy, maybe to Adromeda Galaxy perhaps? Yeah, I was thinking of Star Trek Voyager, just that Misa and Hikaru would be unable to return or establish contact.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-08, 08:53

Woah!! Episode 07??!?!?!?

New

VALKYRIE!!!

VF-27?????!!

OOOOHHH YYEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!

:D:D:D

Zekori

2008-05-08, 11:18

[QUOTE=Westlo;1581470]
10(Legend of Zero)、2008.06.05

The Legend Character Shin Kudo's biography movie Macross Zero is shooting...
S.M.S's fellas undertake underwater photography job in it.
Because the heroine is injured in the movie, Ranka get a Chara.
But she must face a ... Scene with Alto.

Hmm, guess they're trying to redeem the ending of zero since the ending felt quite rushed and, blargh. But I assume that were supposed to assume that the bird men artifacts in Zero were actually the Vajra (Thus protoculture?) more superior to the "Grunts" we see in Frontier so far. I'm somehow expecting for this "Biography" to be information to be incorrect (Like something along the lines like heroic pilot kamikazes into hostile alien weapon to save a fleet).

But since they are introducing zero elements, I guess Sheryl's last name isn't a coincidence?

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-08, 12:01

We'll some classified records are bound to be declassified after 50 years.

Earth was pretty much blown up and it's amazing records were preserved.

That said with 2 encounters in the past and several recently, the latest attacking Macross Galaxy.

The UN spacy is likely going on everything they know about the Protoculture. Perhaps even asking Exedol if has any idea about the Vajra.

The Protoculture are strange bunch. If humans evolved into a violent race like they did they would be wiped out. If they managed to have children with the Zentradi, Here take everything we know on how to beat the Protodevlin.

I'm pretty sure Basara's singing and perhaps Ranka's is what called in Macross Zero as the song of creation.

There is another song, the song of destruction, which is a doomsday song.

margafred

2008-05-09, 00:38

Sources for Macross Frontier preview episode 7-10.

http://2cat.twbbs.org/~tedc21thc/new/src/1210239430704.jpg http://2cat.twbbs.org/~tedc21thc/new/src/1210239701439.jpg http://2cat.twbbs.org/~tedc21thc/new/src/1210242230273.jpg

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-09, 08:26

Given that Macross Frontier is using some elements of the original in terms of plot I can see Alto and Ranka being taken prisoner by the Vajra.

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2008-05-09, 09:58

Given that Macross Frontier is using some elements of the original in terms of plot I can see Alto and Ranka being taken prisoner by the Vajra.

That would imply Vajra was more than an army of biological war drones. This would mean, of course, that the red bugs are actually just grunts.

If any kind of "kidnapping" was to take place, the true master of those bugs would have to be relatively intelligent, and needed to be introduced.

squaresphere

2008-05-09, 11:17

Could the Vajra be the weapons Protoculture created after they lost control of the Zentradi?.

It would make sense that they would want to create a weapon they could control that didn't have high level brain function. I wonder if they're immune to the protodevlin spiritia drain.

-edit in-
my brain just exploded with a thought, what if the Vajra were created by one of the protoculture factions as a weapon AGAINST the Anima Spiritia?!?! That would explain why they seem to react violently to Ranka's singing

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-09, 11:56

Well Vajra do have the Protoculture spiral markings last seen on Mayan island prior to Space War 1. (Macross Zero)

Nobody knows where Sara Nome, inside the Birdman, and Shinn Kudo in VF-0 Phoenix folded to.

The Birdman designated as AFOS by the UN was a failsafe mechanism.

If humanity was a aggressive species and achieved interstellar travel they would be destroyed.

But Sara stopped that when Shinn showed up that he was not killed.

Another incident involving Protculture was in Macross 7.

A Protoculture structure on a planet called Lux which housed the history of the Protoculture, it's Stellar Republic, and it's downfall.

And about a particular group of Protoculture which possesed Anima Spiritia. A regenerative lifeforce energy due to song.

Who defeated and trapped the Protodevlin.

These ruins were later destroyed by the Protodelvin.

ipernorris

2008-05-09, 14:51

I looked the page regarding the Protodeviln on Wikipedia and I've found some interesting pieces:

The Protodeviln realized they could not remain in our universe indefinitely, as they required an energy called spiritia to remain active. However, they quickly learned that Protoculture, Zentradi and humans generated this energy, and began conquering large portions of the Galaxy, feeding on spiritia wherever they went, and brainwashing captured humans into a massive fighting force, the Supervision Army.

In fact we know the Zentradi kept fighting the Supervision Army in SDFM.
Then there is this statement:

500,000 years later in the year 2025, the Megaroad-13 colonization fleet discovered an inhabitable planet and named its star system Varauta. A later research fleet launched an expedition to the icy fourth planet in the system and discovered a mysterious energy field beneath the surface. Entering a cave, the expedition encountered the source: the crystal prisons of the Protodeviln, brought back to consciousness by the arrival of fresh spiritia. High-ranking Protodeviln remotely possessed two of the expedition and brainwashed the rest into a new Supervision Army -- their next target, the colonization fleet Macross 7...

So the Supervision Army we know in Macross 7 is a NEW ONE, not the OLD ONE which still goes around the galaxy hunting the Zentradi.

Then there is the most significant piece:

The Supervision Army are groups of Protoculture and Zentradi brainwashed by the Protodeviln to fight the Stellar Republic. Even after the Protodeviln were driven back, the Supervision Army remained the sworn enemies of the Zentradi, who made their extermination top priority.

In the anime The Super Dimension Fortress Macross, a Supervision Army gun destroyer (by no means the largest of their warships) crashes on Earth and, when restored by humanity, becomes the series' title ship.

In the Supervision Army there are Protoculture people around so it's very possible they made the Vajra as tools of war and they're attacking the colonies because there are Zentradi on them. After all nobody knows what happened to the OLD Supervision Army other than that they still exist and they had lots of skirmishes against the Zentradi fleet.
Besides all the known enemies has been dealt with, with the exception of the Supervision Army: they were only shown as a side plot during SDFM and not directly.

In conclusion: I think there is a strong possibility the true enemy behind the Vajra is the Supervision Army, who has protoculture members and protoculture first hand technology. Quite an hard enemy to deal with...

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-09, 15:07

Just to correct you misunderstanding it was the Zentradi who were hunting the last remaining Supervision Army not the other way around.

By the start of Macross the Supervision Army was pretty much beat. Without their Protodevlin masters they were a bunch of zombies.

Well we know one side of the Protoculture civil war produced the Evil series which was taken over by the Protodevlin.

The Vajra could be the super weapon project of the other.

ipernorris

2008-05-09, 15:15

Just to correct you misunderstanding it was the Zentradi who were hunting the last remaining Supervision Army not the other way around.

On Wikipedia it's stated that Zentradi make the extermination of the Supervision Army as their top priority and this is in SDFM too: if the Supervision Army was so beaten as you say I don't think the Zentradi would make their extermination their own top priority. In SDFM it's only stated that Zentradi and the Supervision Army had lots of skirmishes over the years, nothing more to my memory...

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-09, 15:27

ipernorris

2008-05-09, 15:39

Note on years since Zentradi lifespans were longer than a typical human. (Millia and Chlore are still hotties despite their age.)

Note most of the galaxy is already run by the UN.

Did they have fights with the Supervision Army? No

At first the Zentradi speculated that Earth was Supervision Army stronghold.

Exedol changed this assesment that we were Protoculture. Well not exactly.

Though they did have standing orders that miclone worlds were not to be interfered.

It was Vrlitwhai's curiosity that broke that directive.
Well the Zentradi had fights with the Supervision Army and anyway where did you take the "UN has most of the galaxy under its rule"?!? They haven't even arrived at the core of the Milky Way, let alone the outer opposite regions of the galaxy...
The fact they colonize some planets and they have some colonies flying around doesn't mean they are Protocolture version 2.0 power-wise: there are vast regions which are totally unexplored and the fact the Macross Frontier is just direct to the core of the Milky Way is proof of that. Not to mention the fact that it's called "Frontier" not for nothing... :cool:
For all we know the other half of the Milky Way can be under the Supervision Army rule and the Vajra are just the borders guards or something along those lines.
The fact the OLD Supervision Army has original Protoculture technology makes it a formidable foe.
Anyway even your idea is plausible: the Evil series were made by one of the TWO factions in the Stellar Republic so the other remaining faction did something as well, it's only obvious. But this could be an idea for future series or not be exploited at all.

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-09, 15:55

I said most because the UN has cultured almost all the Zentradi in the galaxy.

The exploration and colonization effort is two fold.

One it ensures the survival of the species, Two it is an effort to assimilate and culturize all Zentradi.

Vividas came from a recently uncultured Zentradi world. A damn deadly fighter.

Only to give it up once she becomes fasinated with drumming.

Even Max was surprised there were a fleet as big as Chlore's left in the galaxy.

Meaning the UN became the stablelizing and unifying force in the galaxy.

Heck even the Zolan who were natively evolved miclone Zentradi's (like humans on Earth) joined the UN. (I won't mention space whales. :heh:)

Tak

2008-05-09, 16:03

Note on years since Zentradi lifespans were longer than a typical human. (Millia and Chlore are still hotties despite their age.)

So is Maximillian Jenius.

Note most of the galaxy is already run by the UN.

I don't think they know how big the galaxy is.

I said most because the UN has cultured almost all the Zentradi in the galaxy.

ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT. As per a certain beloved Zentradi archivist, there are approximately 2,000 Baldoza-sized fleets still in the known galaxy. Each fleet had approximately 4 ~ 5 million vessels. Between Space War I and Frontier, (as per official materials published outside of the shows and games), UN SPACY encountered LESS than a dozen such fleets. However, the UN gets a bloody nose each time it happened.

Did they have fights with the Supervision Army? No

Getting back on the previous point, it is widely speculated that the majority of the Zent fleets are still pursuing the Supervision Army. Although whether humans will eventually encounter them, only time will tell.

At first the Zentradi speculated that Earth was Supervision Army stronghold.

Actually, they weren't sure. They tracked down the vessel, which eventually became the SDF-Macross, but it became instantly clear that Earth was anything but a Supervision Stronghold.

- Tak

Wesley84

2008-05-09, 16:17

ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT. As per a certain beloved Zentradi archivist, there are approximately 2,000 Baldoza-sized fleets still in the known galaxy. Each fleet had approximately 4 ~ 5 million vessels. Between Space War I and Frontier, (as per official materials published outside of the shows and games), UN SPACY encountered LESS than a dozen such fleets. However, the UN gets a bloody nose each time it happened.

- Tak

They're all dead as of Macross 7. At least according to what I've read from other fans.

Tak

2008-05-09, 16:22

They're all dead as of Macross 7. At least according to what I've read from other fans.

I think this is the part where I will ask, show me official proof.

Regardless, Exsedol only expressed the fact that there was an immense disparity in strength between the Zent and the Varauta, but that came from his past experiences, before SPACE WAR I. Regardless, the Varauta were eventually defeated and imprisoned.

During Space War I, Exsedol stated quite simply that there were thousands of million ship Zent fleets still in existence, and no official materials ever stated that they perished before, during or after the events of Macross 7. Again, most of them have not yet encountered or know of humans because presumably, most of them are still engaged in wars against the Supervision Army.

- Tak

Wesley84

2008-05-09, 16:28

I think this is the part where I will ask, show me official proof.

Regardless, Exsedol only expressed the fact that there was an immense disparity in strength between the Zent and the Varauta, but that came from his past experiences, before SPACE WAR I. Regardless, the Varauta were eventually defeated and imprisoned.

During Space War I, Exsedol stated quite simply that there were thousands of million ship Zent fleets still in existence, and no official materials ever stated that they perished before, during or after Macross 7.

- Tak

I was hoping someone else could do it. Shame on me. :heh:

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-09, 16:38

Actually the Varuta were liberated they were their own people.

The Protodevlin just went away.

Max was surprised that big fleets like Chlore's still existed. (Macross 7 Encore)

Also Rey's old Pink Pecker squadron (UN spacy must mave run out of names) encountered what was described as uncultured Zentradi remnants .

Tak

2008-05-09, 16:45

Actually the Varuta were liberated they were their own people.

I meant to say Protodevilns, my apologies.

Max was surprised that big fleets like Chlore's still existed. (Macross 7 Encore)

Also Rey's old Pink Pecker squadron (UN spacy must mave run out of names) encountered what was described as uncultured Zentradi remnants .

Because Chlore once belonged to Baldoza's 5 million ship fleets, thus Max was surprised to see remnants of that particular fleet. It was believed that most of that particular fleet was wiped out, but the key phrase here is 'Baldoza's Fleet', singular.

Most of the 'rogue' fleets encountered by humans in near-Earth galaxy all belonged to Baldoza's Fleet. Please note that the galaxy is a big place, and the humans, although expanding, are not too excited about the idea of exposing themselves too greatly, because in theory, they could.

- Tak

ipernorris

2008-05-09, 16:51

During Space War I, Exsedol stated quite simply that there were thousands of million ship Zent fleets still in existence, and no official materials ever stated that they perished before, during or after the events of Macross 7. Again, most of them have not yet encountered or know of humans because presumably, most of them are still engaged in wars against the Supervision Army.

- Tak
In fact some people mistakes speculation for facts. Large Zentradi armies are probably still out there, but most likely there are Supervision Army as large as well out there. If the Supervision Army was almost gone then the immense Zentradi fleets wouldn't be busy in skirmishes against it.

ZippyDSM

2008-05-09, 17:56

Is this the general Macross Frontier thread?
cause I can not find one....

4Tran

2008-05-09, 18:19

Is this the general Macross Frontier thread?
cause I can not find one....
Nope, that'd be the Macross Frontier Generic thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=45779). This thread is for speculating on the upcoming events in the show.

ZippyDSM

2008-05-10, 00:18

Nope, that'd be the Macross Frontier Generic thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=45779). This thread is for speculating on the upcoming events in the show.

ah thank you I could not find it 0-o

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-11, 07:51

All i can say, is VF-27....

VF-27....

Does anyone know what that is?

D:

ipernorris

2008-05-12, 08:12

Wesley84

2008-05-12, 08:37

In episode 6 the guy who narrates said that the fold is an imperfect way to travel across the galaxy: why was it stated in a tv episode in general and not in a databook? Such technicalities often annoy the young viewers so it's quite strange: the only reason I see the authors did this is because of this particular is relevant to the general plot, don't you agree? And why was it said in episode 6 in particular?
I think the most likely reason is that this particular will play a huge role in the upcoming battle against the Vajra so perhaps the Vajra DOESN'T have this limit...

I think they wanted to explain fold disruptions, which is why there was no communication with Frontier and they and the Galaxy fleet had to bunny hop, instead of making one large jump.

Though I still don't understand the problem exactly. Mostly because I don't understand how Fold Space Technology works.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-12, 09:08

I think they wanted to explain fold disruptions, which is why there was no communication with Frontier and they and the Galaxy fleet had to bunny hop, instead of making one large jump.

Though I still don't understand the problem exactly. Mostly because I don't understand how Fold Space Technology works.

not just you. I think it's abit like Stargate, they know how to build the technology, they know how to use it. But they just don't completely understand the theory behind it.

I guess only the Protoculture can be realistically asked, unless they too just stumble upon it and also don't have a complete understanding of it, but that's hard to believe from a civilization that can make geneticially engineer organic inter-dimensional energy converter
:rolleyes:

ipernorris

2008-05-12, 10:24

I guess only the Protoculture can be realistically asked, unless they too just stumble upon it and also don't have a complete understanding of it, but that's hard to beleive from a civilization that can make geneticially engineer organic inter-dimensional energy converter
:rolleyes:
Well Gattai fansub said that it was the limit of the "Protoculture's civilization", so even the Protocuture seemed to have this problem. But anyway my doubt was about the explanation being merely useful to explaining the "fold dislocation" problem or it will have a major role in the future plot.

EDIT I looked for the fold thing on Macross Compendium and I've found this:

A type of warp (or what is called super-light-velocity spatial displacement) navigation that can travel ultra long distances nearly instantaneously. To explain in simple terms, a fold transports a spacecraft in a very short amount of time by first swapping the location of the spacecraft with super dimension space or subspace, and then swapping the super dimension space with the space at the destination.

According to U.N. Spacy First Lieutenant Misa Hayase during Space War I (2009-2010), an hour passes in super dimension space as approximately ten days passes in normal space. The act of entering super dimension space is called a "fold in." When arriving at the destination, the act of leaving super dimension space is called a "defold" or a "fold out."

Perhaps the fold dislocation is what I put in bold. If this is true then I fear Macross Galaxy is done for.

Wesley84

2008-05-12, 10:44

Well Gattai fansub said that it was the limit of the "Protoculture's civilization", so even the Protocuture seemed to have this problem. But anyway my doubt was about the explanation being merely useful to explaining the "fold dislocation" problem or it will have a major role in the future plot.

EDIT I looked for the fold thing on Macross Compendium and I've found this:

Perhaps the fold dislocation is what I put in bold. If this is true then I fear Macross Galaxy is done for.

They captured Macross Galaxy. Right now it's a rescue mission of the defending fleet and whatever people that managed to evacuate. At this rate, we might see two colony fleets duke it out.

ipernorris

2008-05-12, 11:04

They captured Macross Galaxy. Right now it's a rescue mission of the defending fleet and whatever people that managed to evacuate. At this rate, we might see two colony fleets duke it out.
Are you referring to the ship which folded out near the scout fighters? I understood it was a SURVIVOR's ship, meaning they are the only one who managed to escape alive and there were some Vajra on that ship because they just folded out from the battlefield. I think most of Macross Galaxy is gone...

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-12, 11:22

Given Leon and President Glass' conversation there has been a contingency of Operation M in Frontier also. Originally it was intentended for Zentradi fleets with Culture Shock by song.

After decades in the back burner Operation M found new life with the effectiveness of Nekki Basara's singing snapping pilots out of mind control and driving away the Protodevlin.

Also if spoilers are right the events of Macross Zero are public knowledge but Mr. Viller, New UN Spacy and Frontier government haven't made the connection yet with singing with the Vajra.

Ranka Lee or Sheryl Nome for Operation M.

squaresphere

2008-05-12, 11:22

If M7 is any indication, folding will also grab any near objects as well as the ship that's actually jumping.

Could be that the ship jumped just to get away and the fold snagged the near by Vajra.

Wesley84

2008-05-12, 11:23

Are you referring to the ship which folded out near the scout fighters? I understood it was a SURVIVOR's ship, meaning they are the only one who managed to escape alive and there were some Vajra on that ship because they just folded out from the battlefield. I think most of Macross Galaxy is gone...

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1587985&postcount=37

Ask him about a captured Galaxy. I no longer have Gakkai's sub, but their's was alot different from I-Zs, so I don't know what is what right now.

Tsuchiro

2008-05-12, 12:57

bah deleted post

glyph

2008-05-12, 13:11

Given Leon and President Glass' conversation there has been a contingency of Operation M in Frontier also. Originally it was intentended for Zentradi fleets with Culture Shock by song.

I feel that was more a gallows humor joke about the Vajra ("Hey, why don't we try singing the bloodthirsty brainless killer insects to submission? It's worked on all the other adversaries before, lol") than any kind of real contingency plan.

squaresphere

2008-05-12, 13:15

Well it's been pretty much a theme that most people (in the military) still kinda don't believe the "culture shock" attack actually worked. I mean I'd be really skeptical to if I never witnessed it myself.

Westlo

2008-05-12, 14:45

Here's some more episode 7-10 spoilers translated by Shun of Macross World

Ep 7 First Attack
- Macross Quarter etc goes to the rescue of what's left of Galaxy's ships.
- SMS and NUNS gain upperhand, but Luca's valk gets sucked in by the sudden emergence of a vajra carrier.
- Alto gets inside that vajra carrier to rescue Luca, and there he encounters the mysterious valkyrie VF-27. [homage, homage rolleyes.gif ]
- M-Quarter transforms into Battle mode, Alto escapes unharmed. Alto puzzled over that mystery valk.

Ep 8 High School Queen
- Ranka transfers to Mihoshi Academy so as to be able to pursue the start of her career in entertainment.
- Sheryl's visit caused chaos in the academy.
- Sheryl's panties gets stolen and caused a reckus at the academy, she is determined to find it, falls from roof of some house/building and Alto, wearing his EX-Gear, rescues her. Next day, Sheryl appears in the Mihoshi uniform...
- Ranka who's newly transferred to Mihoshi, meets a mysterious young guy who knows about the song she remembers from her past.

Ep 9 Friendly Fire
- Sheryl's manager Grace informs Michel about his elder sister, Jessica. Michel gets troubled by it.
- During a battle, Alto was almost hit by mistake, and is angry at and gets into a fight with Michel
- Klan Klan tells Alto about Jessica's past.
- Klan Klan, while searching for vajra's base, is shot down by a VF-27 which appeared suddenly.
- Alto plans to make himself a decoy so that Michel can snipe.

Ep 10 Legend of Zero
- Ranka to act as a minor role in a movie, along with Sheryl.
- SMS assists in movie production
- seems like Alto has his own BIG fan for his role as "Princess Sakura" in the past biggrin.gif
- Ranka attacked by some Hydra creature which went berserk, Alto risked himself to save Ranka. At the nick of time, a young man Brera Sterne appeared and the incident ended.
- However, the actress for the role of Mao was hurt and Ranka was casted in her place, and gets to sing the theme song!

+

some more additional trivial stuff for spoilers ep 7-10

- somebody gets to service the junk maintenance [machines?] which are located outside the ship windows as punishment for breaking school rules.
- Nanase is in performing arts. singing class scene in ep 8
- Sheryl's age is publicly announced as 17yo [does this mean she's not?]
- Mihoshi academy allows freedom of hairstyle, no restriction on how the uniform is worn, and even allows voluntary repeating a school year
- Ranka's company's boss seems to have alot of issues/problems
- Sheryl's panty was stolen in the school during a shower.
- Sheryl fall from the roof top while not wearing her panty [lucky Alto... tongue.gif ]
- Luca is a rich kid whose family background is involved with a large computer business corporate
- Mihoshi Academy put practicality as priority, completely modular, even freedom at skipping grades [explains why Luca becomes a classmate of his senpai/senior Alto in ep 6. Luca's target is probably Nanase tho tongue.gif]
- Learning Emergency First Aid skills is compulsory

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-13, 04:47

black_cat1

2008-05-13, 08:51

- However, the actress for the role of Mao was hurt and Ranka was casted in her place, and gets to sing the theme song!
o.O
Role of Mao o.O?
Then that was a movie, not real char in Zero o.O ?

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-13, 08:55

- However, the actress for the role of Mao was hurt and Ranka was casted in her place, and gets to sing the theme song!
o.O
Role of Mao o.O?
Then that was a movie, not real char in Zero o.O ?

A movie based on Shinn Kudo's biography.

Expect some historical errors.

The AFOS incident may have been declassified after 50 years.

4Tran

2008-05-13, 09:18

It's fine to post spoilers in this thread, but please give them meaningful labels. I, for one, would not appreciate getting spoiled inadvertently. Westlo's post above is a good example: the text of the post makes it quite clear what's inside the spoiler tags, but if someone were to quote the post and omit the text, then what's inside becomes unclear. Putting the information inside the label avoids that kind of confusion, and makes it easier for everyone.

Example:[ SPOILER=(Put label here)]
stuff
[ /SPOILER]

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-13, 16:36

.....so we have a Spoiler thread, in which, we have to use Spoiler tags that are clearly marked, so that people who are reading this Spoiler Thread, who don't want to be Spoiled, will not click on Unknown Spoiler in this Spoilers thread......

This is why i love Animesuki. defining Oxymoron since 2002 :)

but to get back on topic,

Very excited about the new plane! Vf-27! Yay!

:)

cheesie

2008-05-13, 19:23

Is it just my imagination, or is Sheryl being linked to a few of Macross's winning love interests?

I predict that the two girls will switch roles. Ranka will climb up to stardom while Sheryl, already on top, will fall down in the middle of the series. :heh:

Tak

2008-05-13, 19:43

Is it just my imagination, or is Sheryl being linked to a few of Macross's winning love interests?

Based on the Kawamori tradition, that is the most likely outcome.

Although just because Ranka is rising, does not mean Sheryl would be falling. After all, she was very supportive of her, and judging by the synopsis of Episode 10, Sheryl is anything but falling.

- Tak

cheesie

2008-05-13, 19:47

Although just because Ranka is rising, does not mean Sheryl would be falling. After all, she was very supportive of her, and judging by the synopsis of Episode 10, Sheryl is anything but falling.

- Tak

Maybe it'll happen in the middle of the series? She's at the peak of her career at so early, so I won't be too surprised if she falls. It's her career that Sheryl has been putting all of herself into, so if you take that away from her, who knows? She's already a developed character, so take that away, it might make room for some amazing character development. (Lose something precious, gain something precious. ;) ;) ) Hehe.

Psychodragon

2008-05-14, 22:47

I'm wondering if this is Jessica, in which the above spoilers speak of:

http://home.comcast.net/~fultranx/008365151.jpg

By the way, the picture is from the OP, in which I'm sure plenty have seen.

Tak

2008-05-14, 22:55

I'm wondering if this is Jessica, in which the above spoilers speak of:

http://home.comcast.net/~fultranx/008365151.jpg

By the way, the picture is from the OP, in which I'm sure plenty have seen.

I am asking because 'it' had no boobs, at all! Although I've read that the person is a 'mysterious' transfer student who will be the 'key' to certain 'mysteries'.

Besides, who is Jessica, Mikhail's sister? If thats the case, its not 'it'.

- Tak

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-14, 23:02

From what I hear it's a he since the seiyuu would be the one who voiced Kira Yamato.

Kira Yamato + experimental VF + ????+ guitar and speaker system = Profit

Tak

2008-05-14, 23:10

From what I hear it's a he since the seiyuu would be the one who voiced Kira Yamato.

Kira Yamoto + experimental VF + ????+ guitar and speaker system = Profit

That is hardly surprising at all. In fact, he looks like a Soichiro (or rather, one of those only Soichiro could VA).

Lets just hope Kira Yamato won't steal Macross the way he hijacked SEED DESTINY.

- Tak

Westlo

2008-05-14, 23:23

The girliest Souichiro Hoshi can sound is probably Kira Yamato... hopefully he uses his gar (kazuma) voice for this character.

Anyway here's confirmation of who that character is.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1558625&postcount=17

Psychodragon

2008-05-14, 23:38

I am asking because 'it' had no boobs, at all! Although I've read that the person is a 'mysterious' transfer student who will be the 'key' to certain 'mysteries'.

Besides, who is Jessica, Mikhail's sister? If thats the case, its not 'it'.

- Tak

Heh, yeah. I didn't know if it was a guy or gal, either. Looked feminine to me, so that's why I though it was Jessica...and plus the ears resemble elf ears, kinda like Michel's.

Anyways, my theory has been knocked down by WestLo. Meh. At least I've finally found out who the person is.

-PD

Wesley84

2008-05-15, 00:22

That is hardly surprising at all. In fact, he looks like a Soichiro (or rather, one of those only Soichiro could VA).

Lets just hope Kira Yamato won't steal Macross the way he hijacked SEED DESTINY.

- Tak

If Soichiro can't sing, then any character he portrays should be one of the last ones you should be worried about as far as ruining Frontier is concerned.

glyph

2008-05-15, 01:36

If Soichiro can't sing, then any character he portrays should be one of the last ones you should be worried about as far as ruining Frontier is concerned.

Apparently he does. One song we know of, anyway.

Westlo

2008-05-15, 03:11

If Soichiro can't sing, then any character he portrays should be one of the last ones you should be worried about as far as ruining Frontier is concerned.

It doesn't matter if Soichiro can't sing... Aya Endo isn't the singing voice for Sheryl... Romi Paku wasn't the singing voice for Nana O in NANA etc.

ipernorris

2008-05-15, 17:15

In episode 7 Brera Sterne (if that's his name) didn't act as he was on the side of the Vajra (he killed some when he boarded their battleship), but he didn't act friendly even to Alto because he blew up Skull 3 gun. So the plot is going to be more complicated than I thought to be.

Lanis

2008-05-15, 23:10

Tak

2008-05-15, 23:21

Something I've noticed for a while now. The bridge bunny with the purple hair. What's up with her eyes? She looks like some sort of bug.

The mysterious VF that shows in up in episode 7 also looks almost exactly like the VFs that the Anti-UN forces used in Macross Zero!

The purple one does indeed have a superficial resemblance to the SV-51 piloted by Nora. Beyond that, its battroid form was completely different. We will have to wait and see just how 'similar' the two units are.

On the other hand, I am willing to bet Mr. Mysterious here is

An agent of the Supervision Army!!! . . . . . hey, I can dream, right?

- Tak

glyph

2008-05-15, 23:21

Something I've noticed for a while now. The bridge bunny with the purple hair. What's up with her eyes? She looks like some sort of bug.

She just has beady eyes. That one scientist guy (Emil Lang in Robotech) on the SDF Macross had them too. Although I think they made up some weird explanation for that in Robotech.

Wesley84

2008-05-15, 23:22

Lanis

2008-05-15, 23:31

The purple one does indeed have a superficial resemblance to the SV-51 piloted by Nora. Beyond that, its battroid form was completely different. We will have to wait and see just how 'similar' the two units are.

On the other hand, I am willing to bet Mr. Mysterious here is

An agent of the Supervision Army!!! . . . . . hey, I can dream, right?

- Tak

I wouldn't say just superficial. The way its wings stay out but bent in battroid form, the way the wings are bent in that split second you see it in gerwalk mode before in flies away at the end, the forward swept winglets next to the cockpit, even the general shape of the wings themselves. Anyone got some screen shot comparisons out there?

Lanis

2008-05-15, 23:34

She just has beady eyes. That one scientist guy (Emil Lang in Robotech) on the SDF Macross had them too. Although I think they made up some weird explanation for that in Robotech.

Just beady? Her entire eyes are all black!

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-15, 23:42

Hmmm... Maybe another race that joined the UN like the Zolan. (Macross 7 Dynamite)

Or another Zentradi decent.

edit:

Could Sheryl's earings be made of the same material as those rocks at Mayan island?

Assuming she is born or adopted by the Nome clan.

A little piece of home so to speak as they remember what's left of their culture.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-16, 04:59

Something I've noticed for a while now. The bridge bunny with the purple hair. What's up with her eyes? She looks like some sort of bug.

Yeah i've noticed them too, i assumed they were either:

1) Cybernetic implants
2) She's another "genetically-compatible" species of humanoid. i.e. Zolan, Meltrandi

While Frontier bans implants, im sure if it's for medical purposes, then it'll be allowed.

Just like certain A-class drugs can be prescribed by doctors.

Then again i do like the Alien idea, not impossible either.

She looks like the adventurous type, willing to leave her home planet and seek an exciting life in amongst the stars.

:)

Kikuchi

2008-05-16, 05:01

With several references to Macross Zero appearing here and there, I refuse to believe Sheryl is not connected to Zero's Nomes, personnally.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-16, 05:05

With several references to Macross Zero appearing here and there, I refuse to believe Sheryl is not connected to Zero's Nomes, personnally.

With several references to Macross 7 appearing here and there, I refuse to believe Ranka is not connected to 7's Basara, personally.

:p:rolleyes:

Kikuchi

2008-05-16, 05:06

I'm talking about Sheryl's NAME, dude.

glyph

2008-05-16, 05:21

Yeah i've noticed them too, i assumed they were either:

1) Cybernetic implants
2) She's another "genetically-compatible" species of humanoid. i.e. Zolan, Meltrandi

Her eyes are not all black, seen in close up shots like the one where she goes "That's sexual harassment, isn't it?" in Episode 6), it's just that her eyes are permanently squinty while her pupil are drawn the same (oversized) size as everyone else.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-16, 06:21

Her eyes are not all black, seen in close up shots like the one where she goes "That's sexual harassment, isn't it?" in Episode 6), it's just that her eyes are permanently squinty while her pupil are drawn the same (oversized) size as everyone else.

i've seen the HD raws and yeah they are brown, the pupil are big, but it's the shape of her eyes, they are so slim, moon like.

at one point the pupil filled the entire eye, thus in the SD version it looked like it was all black.

Yeah, doesn't look cybernetics, but doesn't mean they don't do it at frontier.

I think it's just a off source-animator quirk that went......funny.

ipernorris

2008-05-16, 07:57

The dude here doesn't seem to be alone, I noticed ONLY now:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6669/vlcsnap166298ty3.jpg

It seems there is another faction after all...

magnuskn

2008-05-16, 09:36

- Klan Klan, while searching for vajra's base, is shot down by a VF-27 which appeared suddenly.

Wait, what? I better hope she survives. :upset:

ipernorris

2008-05-16, 10:11

Wait, what? I better hope she survives. :upset:
I hope not. Some drama is needed and a named characters needs to die soon and Klein Klan is a good start. Then there is Ozma as a good candidate to die.

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-16, 10:27

Call me persistent.

Could Sheryl's earings be made of the same material as those rocks at Mayan island?

Assuming she is born or adopted by the Nome clan.

A little piece of home so to speak as they remember what's left of their culture.

Also Sheryl's mother may have a connection to Ranka's family.

squaresphere

2008-05-16, 11:13

I was under the impression that the rock's weren't special and the effect was due to the singing. For another anime analogy, it's like how rocks float when DBZ character power up.

Westlo

2008-05-16, 12:49

I wouldn't say just superficial. The way its wings stay out but bent in battroid form, the way the wings are bent in that split second you see it in gerwalk mode before in flies away at the end, the forward swept winglets next to the cockpit, even the general shape of the wings themselves. Anyone got some screen shot comparisons out there?

Yeah I noticed how the wings looked in gerwalk mode and was like awesome!

magnuskn

2008-05-16, 14:01

I hope not. Some drama is needed and a named characters needs to die soon and Klein Klan is a good start. Then there is Ozma as a good candidate to die.

Eh, she hasn´t been fleshed out yet enough to be an "important" death. I´d think Luca would be better, if we have to begin killing off people so soon.

Tabris

2008-05-16, 14:10

They could do the unthinkable and not kill people off :P

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-16, 14:29

They could do the unthinkable and not kill people off :P

UMPOSSIBLE!

Macross would NEVER do that!

*ignores Macross 7*

NNEEEVVAAAAR!

:uhoh:

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-16, 14:38

Checks those who died in Macross 7.

Gigil, Capt. Kiryu, two protodevlin weirdos, 1 diamond force, Docker's expendable boys...

Well nobody of importance really.

Kikuchi

2008-05-16, 15:45

Checks those who died in Macross 7.

Gigil, Capt. Kiryu, two protodevlin weirdos, 1 diamond force, Docker's expendable boys...

Well nobody of importance really.

Yeah, they were all disposable :/

In fact, when they "killed"Gamlin, I was EXTASIC. I was like "FINALLY, they have the balls to pull something like that !"

What was my disappointment to see him back in the next ep -_-

ipernorris

2008-05-16, 16:42

Eh, she hasn´t been fleshed out yet enough to be an "important" death. I´d think Luca would be better, if we have to begin killing off people so soon.
Has anyone here seen Soukou no Strain? That was a show with the balls to kill of main characters... Macross Frontier must have his own style so it mustn't be a copypasta, but some drama is needed. I hope Luca will die and Ozma too, but later. If Ozma dies because of Alto's fault it will be very interesting to see how Alto will react and grow in answer to this event.

Tak

2008-05-16, 17:07

Has anyone here seen Soukou no Strain? That was a show with the balls to kill of main characters... Macross Frontier must have his own style so it mustn't be a copypasta, but some drama is needed. I hope Luca will die and Ozma too, but later. If Ozma dies because of Alto's fault it will be very interesting to see how Alto will react and grow in answer to this event.

Well aren't you a pessimistic fellow. Major death occurred early on in Macross Frontier, where Ozma's very important wingman died in a rather gruesome manner.

In Macross Zero, both Sara and Shin (the main characters) died (or one could interpret them as being in a 'better world'). Adding to the list of fatalities is Roy Fokker of Macross, who was crushed to death in DYRL, while Hayao was vaporized by Macross' shield overloading or sniped off by Milia in DYRL. Or there is Macross PLUS, where Guld pretty much went blind while doing a Kamikaze run against the Ghost, and later exploded in flashing glory, not a very pretty picture.

And if you want a serious death count, the original Macross had a death toll of 10 billion.

I wonder if thats enough for you :p

- Tak (No, Macross deaths aren't pretty...)

Wesley84

2008-05-16, 18:48

Westlo

2008-05-16, 18:50

As for Frontier...I think Quarter will go down early, so that's the Bridge Bunnies, the Captain, and the Hairdresser. Cathy will make it though.

If that happened she would only survive because the captain threw her whining ass off the ship :heh:

Wesley84

2008-05-16, 18:54

If that happened she would only survive because the captain threw her whining ass off the ship :heh:

You say that like it's a bad thing. Living to have the last laugh is totally worth a little indignity. :p

ipernorris

2008-05-17, 01:45

Well aren't you a pessimistic fellow. Major death occurred early on in Macross Frontier, where Ozma's very important wingman died in a rather gruesome manner.
A barely named side character shown only in in some scenes of the first two episodes... I wouldn't call it "major death"... :D

In Macross Zero, both Sara and Shin (the main characters) died (or one could interpret them as being in a 'better world'). Adding to the list of fatalities is Roy Fokker of Macross, who was crushed to death in DYRL, while Hayao was vaporized by Macross' shield overloading or sniped off by Milia in DYRL. Or there is Macross PLUS, where Guld pretty much went blind while doing a Kamikaze run against the Ghost, and later exploded in flashing glory, not a very pretty picture.

I was talking about Macross Frontier ONLY, not about the various Macross OVAs.

And if you want a serious death count, the original Macross had a death toll of 10 billion.

True, but they're nameless characters. The only named character who died was Hikaru's teacher.
I'm talking about the "good guys side" of course.

You don't need balls to kill cliched characters you've barely even introduced. :heh:

You know that those deaths aren't the only ones... :D

It was a bodyfest from the get go, and no one was really likeable or really all that interesting. Basically they had some stock Vandred footage, and decided to kill a few bitches before it wsa over.

To me, and many to many others as well, Soukou no Strain was one of the best sci-fi series ever aired: too bad you don't think the same. Anyway I mentioned that series only because I would like that the good guys side to be hit pretty hard because I don't like shows where the good side owns the universe (=>Gundam SEED...).

As for Frontier...I think Quarter will go down early, so that's the Bridge Bunnies, the Captain, and the Hairdresser. Cathy will make it though.
I hope so too... some serious drama can bring great story telling and character growth. I don't understand why people get so attached to characters as if they were real persons... I mean who cares if they die or live, they're just animations. The important point is to enjoy the show, that's all that matters to me. :)

Wesley84

2008-05-17, 02:25

You know that those deaths aren't the only ones... :D

Those were the only kind of deaths period. And it's not like anyone in the show actually gave a shit when someone died. Not the main character at least. The whole "brother complex" thing was very unattractive, and made her look like a cold-hearted bitch. If she didn't have a knack for picking up rivalries at the drop of a hat, no one would have noticed her.

To me, and many to many others as well, Soukou no Strain was one of the best sci-fi series ever aired: too bad you don't think the same.

Once you get over the novelty of a time dilated war that only served as a one time plot device, and the girly-looking mecha, Strain isn't anything special. It doesn't have technological progression or any real variety in weaponry. It's not character driven. The whole thing is about "What the hell is wrong with her brother?" and thankfully it only takes thirteen episodes to answer it before he's killed off.

Anyway I mentioned that series only because I would like that the good guys side to be hit pretty hard because I don't like shows where the good side owns the universe (=>Gundam SEED...).

There wasn't a "good side" in Strain. There were the characters who recieved most of the screentime while living in a bright colorful highschool-like enviroment, and then the characters who really liked brown, orange, black, and possibly dark shades of purple, like they were living in a morgue or something.

And the good guys hardly owned the universe in Seed. They spent most of the series running away and hiding, and when they finally made a move, it was in the middle of a big battle where only one ship was really out to get them. If it wasn't everyone just getting tired of Azarel's bullshit on the Dominion, Archangel at least would have been lost.

It was a chaotic mess at the end, where order on all sides completely broke down into general melee, where the more powerful ships and mobile suits would tend to fair better.

I hope so too... some serious drama can bring great story telling and character growth. I don't understand why people get so attached to characters as if they were real persons... I mean who cares if they die or live, they're just animations. The important point is to enjoy the show, that's all that matters to me. :)

Possibly a scene of fairness, justice, personal enjoyment or fondess. Sometimes a character death is just horribly done or for the wrong reasons like simply for the sake of it. My personal favorite is when a character dies to feed a main character's developement.

Then again, I only said Quarter will go down because it's already shown all it can do, while the characters onboard are pretty much expendable. No one will weep unless they really like bridge bunnies, hair dressers, and maritime whalers. I swear, if the space whale idea pans out like I expect it to, "Thar she blows!" had better happen.

magnuskn

2008-05-17, 03:12

I hope so too... some serious drama can bring great story telling and character growth. I don't understand why people get so attached to characters as if they were real persons... I mean who cares if they die or live, they're just animations. The important point is to enjoy the show, that's all that matters to me. :)

Because some people enjoy seeing the cahracters relationships grow and evolve. That is what at least makes a show enjoyable for me, so please stop assuming that only "early deaths" of main characters can make for good drama. That is a very narrow definition on how to build up a show.

Soukou no Strain was maybe like this, but it introduced its mood from the very first episode... in the end I really couldn´t take the whole emo Sara anymore. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I like to grow attached to the characters, because it makes it more enjoayable to see their relationships evolve. If they get killed off nilly-willy at the beginning of the anime, without having a defined relationship with the other characters, then their deaths are empty and meaningless. Killing of Klan is quite too soon, as her relationship with Michel hasn´t been explored yet. Ozma, IMO, also still has a love triangle to resolve with Cathy and Leon.

I don´t rule out character deaths at all, but I´d like to get to know them first and have their relationship arcs played out before they go.

ipernorris

2008-05-17, 03:18

Those were the only kind of deaths period. And it's not like anyone in the show actually gave a shit when someone died. Not the main character at least. The whole "brother complex" thing was very unattractive, and made her look like a cold-hearted bitch. If she didn't have a knack for picking up rivalries at the drop of a hat, no one would have noticed her.
No they weren't the only kind of deaths, but we can't enter in details HERE because we would break rules. I only mentioned Soukou no Strain in order to bring an example of a show which killed off some main characters without problems, not to open an OFF-TOPIC debate on the series. :)

Once you get over the novelty of a time dilated war that only served as a one time plot device, and the girly-looking mecha, Strain isn't anything special. It doesn't have technological progression or any real variety in weaponry. It's not character driven. The whole thing is about "What the hell is wrong with her brother?" and thankfully it only takes thirteen episodes to answer it before he's killed off.

Who cares about technological progression and weaponry... the show is about the conflict and drama which fall upon the main character and her friends. This is what truly makes that anime great, not the mecha and weaponry things.

There wasn't a "good side" in Strain. There were the characters who recieved most of the screentime while living in a bright colorful highschool-like enviroment, and then the characters who really liked brown, orange, black, and possibly dark shades of purple, like they were living in a morgue or something.

I think there was a good side, but it depends on POV I guess.

And the good guys hardly owned the universe in Seed. They spent most of the series running away and hiding, and when they finally made a move, it was in the middle of a big battle where only one ship was really out to get them. If it wasn't everyone just getting tired of Azarel's bullshit on the Dominion, Archangel at least would have been lost.

Uhm was it normal for Freedom owning entire fleets? You're free to think so, but many people won't agree. :D

My personal favorite is when a character dies to feed a main character's developement.

Yes of course the death must be useful for something/someone, not wasted.

Then again, I only said Quarter will go down because it's already shown all it can do, while the characters onboard are pretty much expendable. No one will weep unless they really like bridge bunnies, hair dressers, and maritime whalers. I swear, if the space whale idea pans out like I expect it to, "Thar she blows!" had better happen.
Well we already know there is a bigger giant robot in Macross Frontier fleet because of the opening so we already know Quarter is expendable. ;)

Wesley84

2008-05-17, 03:39

Who cares about technological progression and weaponry... the show is about the conflict and drama which fall upon the main character and her friends. This is what truly makes that anime great, not the mecha and weaponry things.

I'd say the one episode with Lamina running around naked is what made that series worth watching, and nothing else.

Uhm was it normal for Freedom owning entire fleets? You're free to think so, but many people won't agree. :D

Freedom didn't own entire fleets, and I'm getting really sick of people saying otherwise.

Yes of course the death must be useful for something/someone, not wasted.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I happen to be one of those people who thinks character death is unnecessary in any story. Sometimes it's preferable, simply because a character is hated, but a series isn't automatically at a loss because no one dies in it. "Someone has to die!" is very irratiating to me, because I think it deflects away other issues or flaws in a story or series, or that people simply want it to happen because they think it'll make a series somehow more "mature" like having lots of cussing or sex scenes inserted in just for the patented R-rating.

No one has to die to make Frontier complete. Tension and dread I would say are important, but you don't have kill anyone to get that kind of reaction out of an audience. Actually doing so might generate apathy, and that would be a crying shame.

ipernorris

2008-05-17, 03:53

I'd say the one episode with Lamina running around naked is what made that series worth watching, and nothing else.

Freedom didn't own entire fleets, and I'm getting really sick of people saying otherwise.

Well there is no much more to say about these matters: we've opposite opinions and they aren't going to change no matter how much we discuss them, so let's put these to rest for the sake of not going off-topic.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I happen to be one of those people who thinks character death is unnecessary in any story. Sometimes it's preferable, simply because a character is hated, but a series isn't automatically at a loss because no one dies in it. "Someone has to die!" is very irratiating to me, because I think it deflects away other issues or flaws in a story or series, or that people simply want it to happen because they think it'll make a series somehow more "mature" like having lots of cussing or sex scenes inserted in just for the patented R-rating.

No one has to die to make Frontier complete. Tension and dread I would say are important, but you don't have kill anyone to get that kind of reaction out of an audience. Actually doing so might generate apathy, and that would be a crying shame.
Death is part of the life so it's only expected for it to be present in series even for the good guys, especially in the series not directed mainly to kids.
I think drama, and death of named characters in particular, is one of the main means to develop plots and making the characters growing. Of course the presence of deaths doesn't mean the show is good automatically: those deaths must be used smartly together with many other elements.

Wesley84

2008-05-17, 04:00

Death is part of the life so it's only expected for it to be present in series even for the good guys, especially in the series not directed mainly to kids.

Kids stories have death in them to, so there's not really an exception there.

I think drama, and death of named characters in particular, is one of the main means to develop plots and making the characters growing. Of course the presence of deaths doesn't mean the show is good automatically: those deaths must be used smartly together with many other elements.

Save it for the finale and don't bring a character back wearing a mask is all I have left to say.

Westlo

2008-05-17, 06:55

Well we already know there is a bigger giant robot in Macross Frontier fleet because of the opening so we already know Quarter is expendable. ;)

Actually unless the S.M.S crew leave their Quarter and take over Battle Frontier than the Battle Frontier with a crew of no names has a higher chance of going boom in the penultimate episode imo... especially if Leon is in it!

Tak

2008-05-17, 09:22

I was talking about Macross Frontier ONLY, not about the various Macross OVAs.

Yeah, and I am telling ya, no worries, there will be important deaths. But if they kill the main characters, Quran or Michel, I am gonna flip. That is, if Kawamori pulled a Tomino on my ass, I AM GOING TO F*CKING PULL A 911 ON HIS STUDIO!!!

True, but they're nameless characters. The only named character who died was Hikaru's teacher.
I'm talking about the "good guys side" of course.

And Hayao Kanzaki, who was, well, vaporized.

To me, and many to many others as well, Soukou no Strain was one of the best sci-fi series ever aired: too bad you don't think the same.

A lot of people don't think the same. Nothing personal, but thats reality for ya. And why should I get all happy n' glee to expect some main character deaths. Thats the kind of thing only Tomino would pull off, and last time I checked, he had a history of mental issues. Obviously this man took his frustrations on his main characters. The 'Kill-em-All' Tomino is known for a reason. I am not as crazy as him, and I prefer to be alive, thank you.

My theory has been, if you work your ass off, fought countless battles, survived countless encounters, then only to die at the end (or becoming the only survivor)? Well, F*CK it, just kill yourself, makes it easier for everyone. That whole 'supreme sacrifice but I get nothin in return' isn't exactly my cup of tea.

As for Gundam Seed, they killed off Natarle Badgiruel damn you, and she was HOT! AGHHHHH! Well, on a side note, I didn't exect Nicole to die, either.

- Tak

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-17, 09:47

As for Gundam Seed, they killed off Natarle Badgiruel damn you, and she was HOT! AGHHHHH! Well, on a side note, I didn't exect Nicole to die, either.

- Tak

funny. i liked her too.
probably because she was a tsundere
(but never did get the chance to show off here dere side to her crush)
She died honourably though.

the only other character i liked was the cool doggy commander who lost an eye, with the GARlock cool attitude.

But anyway, do you think this VF-27 is part of a secret fraction working within NUNS space?

I have a funny feeling it's like some sort of group that has ties with big corporations doing shady things.

I think they are related to the "research" fleet that was attacked, i think they are continuing to push out their agents, and trying to discover the VAJRA technology.

CaptGloval

2008-05-17, 12:01

glyph

2008-05-17, 14:02

Ah! Why did that arrive to me just now? Of course, there would be factions! This would perfectly explain why we now have a New UN Government! Ooh, we might get an episode that explains how this came about and to explain Brera Sterne's existence.

Where does VF-27 come from anyway (and what happened to the VF-26?)? I've only seen it referred to as "mysterious variable fighter" in spoilers.

The tech used in those fighters seem way above established human and zentradi tech levels. What with the EVA style cockpit, the built in ability to fold from stationary (which also looks different from the normal fold). Brera doesn't even bother wearing a helmet, and his suit is distinctly alien and glows (is he physically even in the cockpit?).

On the other hand, they use variable fighters which suggest organised human influence of some kind...

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-17, 18:54

i understand your sentimental, i always wonder what happened to the VF-2, VF-3, VF-5, VF-6, VF-7, VF-8, VF-9, VF-10, VF12, VF-13, VF-15, VF-16, VF-17, VF-18, VF-20, VF-23 , VF-24, VB-1, VB-2, VB-3, VB-4, VB-5 and etc etc etc.

:(

Tak

2008-05-17, 19:07

Because they all failed to beat the other competitor :p

For example, our F-17, F-19, F-20 (Tigershark, discontinued model, never entered production phase), F-21, and F-23 were all apparent losers :D

- Tak

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-17, 19:10

We've seen VF-17 Nightmare not mention it's sucessor VF 171.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-17, 19:29

We've seen VF-17 Nightmare not mention it's sucessor VF 171.

woops. forgot about that. thanks for mention it.

:)

Names tend to stick for that model, always remembered "nightmare" and "Gamlin" for that matter. baldy Zentradi.

:rolleyes:

Cadorna

2008-05-17, 19:54

Also VF- 9 apeared in Macross M3

http://unsd.macrossroleplay.org/vf-9.html

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-17, 20:26

yeah alright. wanna come down and help me?

*digs a bigger hole*

:mad:
:rolleyes:

CaptGloval

2008-05-17, 22:50

The tech used in those fighters seem way above established human and zentradi tech levels. What with the EVA style cockpit, the built in ability to fold from stationary (which also looks different from the normal fold). Brera doesn't even bother wearing a helmet, and his suit is distinctly alien and glows (is he physically even in the cockpit?).

If you mean the 360-degrees view in the cockpit, then that's similar to the VF-19 in Macross Plus. The way the view was presented may be stylized though, I recall they sometimes show Isamu naked while piloting his VF-19.

EDIT: There's also another school of thought in the Mecha thread. Here's my contribution:

Although I admit, this could also be explained by the use of a brain-machine interface, especially since Brera appears to control his VF-27 in a hands-off manner (and play his harmonica to boot :heh:). So it could be that the VF-27 is a combination of the VF-19 and VF-21. (Which was what I thought when watching Macross Plus: why not combine the two?)

...No, don't tell me the harmonica enables Brera to pull off a Basara-style pilot control :uhoh: