View Full Version : Want to learn HTML XML C++
SiL Eighty
2004-02-04, 14:49
Does anyone know a good place to learn HTML, XML, C++ or any other computer programing language? I've always wanted to take a crack at it but I don't know where to go ('cept comunity college eek3 :uhoh: ). I would be greatful if anyone would also give me their personal thoughts on these languages. (ups and downs of learning BLah bleh Blah sorta stuff :) )
You can learn HTML and XML here:
http://www.w3schools.com/
Remember to always write proper, standard HTML, so that everyone can read it. W3Schools will teach you the right way.
C++ is very hard to learn, especially without learning C first, and neither has website tutorials. I highly recommend you get a book on C out from the library.
I myself learned C by The Book, that is to say K&R's "The C Programming Language". But this did not teach me programming technique, which I had to learn independently. I have heard that "A Book on C" is a better primer.
C and C++ are necessary for all computer programmers. Another good language to learn is Python. But don't let anyone fool you into learning Java, it's no good for anything.
SiL Eighty
2004-02-04, 15:12
So what do you suggest I tackle 1st? C to C++ than learn HTML and XML? I heard that HTML and XML are pretty much the same thing as the way it is written. Also I've heard of java scrpits, but I have no clue as to what they are usually used for.
BTW thanks ashibaka for the info :)
RavenChild
2004-02-04, 15:18
if you are learning a language for the first time, you might want to learn basic. basic is well... basic. it overall is the most common language (other than html), C and C++ come right after that. get a copy of visual basic and just experiment, download code and just make things that could be used in everyday life. Basic was my gateway language and then i moved on into html, c, c++, and other forms of programing languages.
BASIC is useless for teaching programming. It does not teach you anything you need to know for today. It is about twenty years old, and therefore it teaches you twenty-year-old programming techniques. So, if you want to learn FORTRAN, I recommend BASIC.
Learn HTML (technically, HTML is a document format, not a programming language), then you can make neat websites. Plus, you will learn how to recognize and use XML through learning HTML. You are right in saying that they are basically the same thing. XML will be useful for many things, from making skins for Shareaza, to updating your blog with RSS, even to programming in some fancy languages.
Then, sit down at a Linux or Mac OS X computer and make some programs in C.
When you are writing C, the easiest thing to do is to have a UNIX terminal, i.e. Linux or Mac OS X, in front of you. If you really want to use Windows, you pretty much need an IDE-- a desktop environment like Visual C++. Microsoft sells Visual C++ for about $100 or so. Welcome to the world of Windows!
And all those people programming C++ on Windows? Yeah, they're all using Visual C++. If someone on these forums is programming C++ on Windows, he most likely pirated a copy of Visual C++, just like all those people pirating Photoshop. Windows is a despicable thing to use.
c++ is a huuge pain to learn
taking it in school now, and yeah...
its not the easiest way to earn 3 credits
you basically NEED a book
if not for learning, then for reference
lesse...
use omnipad if you are in the windows environment
http://godfather.arsware.org/OmniPad/
i love it...actually...use omnipad no matte what you do, it has everything, html, c++, java, etc, etc
it helps me view code easier since it has all those pretty colours
MS visual c++, if you want to use it, try to pick up one of those "educational" copies...i did that a few years back in a programming package for about 40-50 cdn
only drawback is, you cant sell anything you program, but at this time, thats a moot point
ahh...a little bit of addendum..
if you have absolutely no experience in programming, do HTML first
it still has its uses and is fairly easy to follow
basic...i wouldnt bother with it
it isnt really programming and you will have to relearn a lot of stuff once you move to higher-level programming languages
Doesn't Visual C++ Educational have dumb Microsoft restrictions? I remember getting a programming book that came with Visual C++ Educational, and when I compiled software with it, the program that came out opened up a dialog box that said "THIS SOFTWARE WAS MADE WITH AN EDUCATIONAL COPY OF VISUAL C++. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DISTRIBUTE COPIES OF PROGRAMS MADE WITH VISUAL C++ EDUCATIONAL", or something like that.
Sheesh, Microsoft, if you're so uptight about that sort of thing, you'll lose customers to Linux in no time flat.
hmm
mine didnt pop up a dialogue box
but i think it did add that to whatever code it compiled
so it didnt really bother me
but its all non-visual programming for me now
school doesnt like us using microsoft visual
http://burks.bton.ac.uk/burks/language/
They link to all kind of resource you may need to learn most programming languages.
You don't have to learn C before learning C++. In fact skip C may be a good idea since you may learn bad habbit that you must forget later for C++/C#/Java.
If what you want to learn is how to program, your choice of programming language is of no importance: The skills used in programming are the same wether you choose FORTRAN, C++ and Perl.
Once you know a programming language or three, you will realize that they are all just different tools in your kit, and a part of the art is using the tool that will afford you the maximum payoff with the least effort.
Try reading this small intro (http://samizdat.mines.edu/howto/) and see what you have got to learn if it is your wish to travel the road of the software developer :)
Learning HTML is a good passtime, but will never be more than a small fraction of what a programmer does - It is more the realm of a web designer. If you do set out to learn it though, be sure to follow Ashibakas advice and make it standards compliant (IE only websites are abominations, and should be eradicated like the garbage who wrote them...ooops, got a little carried away there, hehe). XML is a way of structuring data, and is a much used tool in programming. It is, however, hardly something to set your heart on learning - You will absorb XML through osmosis as you learn to think like a programmer ;)
Thus spake I, and everything is IMHO.
SiL Eighty
2004-02-04, 17:04
My mom uses Visual Basic for Data Basing. Making budget data bases and other stuff................. I dont think I need to alaborate with vb..............
ANY WAYS I'm going to try out HTML/XML first as ashibaka has suggested. I figure i can get a grasp of what I need to go thru by 1st learning this. I've tried some simply stuff so far and it's pretty easy.
I'm planning on building a new computer in a month or so too. There is no way in hell I'm going to put windows XP on it.... I have windows xp on my comp now.... all i have to say is *!)(^&#*)(%^@)&*#%^!@
BTW, Thanks guys for all the info PLZ keep going I'd love to hear everyone's opinion for I AM T3h NoObL3s!!!!11111ONEoN3one
You don't have to learn C before learning C++. In fact skip C may be a good idea since you may learn bad habbit that you must forget later for C++/C#/Java.You mean no object-oriented programming, right? I am afraid I must notify you that OOP isn't everything... and it's helpful to learn the sensible syntax of C before diving into the mess that is C++.
SiL Eighty
2004-02-04, 18:05
Ok for the comp I'm going to be building I'm most likely gunna put linux on it, but when I start to dive into C and C++ what program do I use? But if for some UNSEEN reason I put Windows XP on it is Visual C++ the only program out that is good to use?
Ok for the comp I'm going to be building I'm most likely gunna put linux on it, but when I start to dive into C and C++ what program do I use? But if for some UNSEEN reason I put Windows XP on it is Visual C++ the only program out that is good to use?
Well I suggest PHP for start. It's object oriented and it's EASIEST language I've seen so far. You can create web apps (well it's used 99% of time just for that) and also u can create normal programs. PHP now supports GTK and it runs on almost every platform there is. PHP + MySQL/PostgreSQL is better then free food. You can start learning it in seconds, there are tons of docs online. Try www.php.net -> links
You don't need compiler or anything, just webspace. Skilled php programmers are in great respect these days.
I just love PHP and I can go on and on...but I won't bore you with it. btw here is simple php program:
<? echo "Learn PHP!"; ?>
Well, he said he wanted to learn C++ :)
If you do use Windows, you can use a free compiler called djgpp (Google it), but it's sort of complicated. Also, the XP terminal sucks.
It's actually easier to program in Python or PHP on Windows.
SiL Eighty
2004-02-04, 19:03
PHP huh? :hmm: Well im still going at the HTML walk thru (intresting shit mang). I will give a hack at PHP once I finish HTLM/XML. Can you write PHP code in notepad like HTML, and Forse is that an attachment PHP prgm that changed the color or just VB code?
PHP huh? :hmm: Well im still going at the HTML walk thru (intresting shit mang). I will give a hack at PHP once I finish HTLM/XML. Can you write PHP code in notepad like HTML, and Forse is that an attachment PHP prgm that changed the color or just VB code?
Yeah you can write PHP with any text editor (I use JED for my php files, it's nix editor with php syntax) and yes it's vb that changed colors ;) Just use [php]
I personally feel that you don't need to start with C before going onto C++, but it's up to you. You'll still need to learn OOP and all that, but you'll still need to know some of C's features.
Bruce Eckel has made electronic copies of his C++ books available; actually, they're being hosted with his permission. Try these sites (http://mindview.net/Books/DownloadSites).
SiL Eighty
2004-02-04, 20:39
OOP?? I'm guessing that OOP is directly linked to C and C++, but I've never head of it before. Is OOP another language or something??? :twitch:
OOP, or Object-Oriented Programming, is a method of programming that needs to be built into the language. It's too technical to explain without knowledge of how programming works, but anyway, C doesn't support it, and C++, Java, Python, etc. do support it.
The primary purpose of C++ is actually to add object-oriented programming to C. That also makes it a lot more complicated.
I still hold that you ought to learn C first, first because it will get you acquainted some of the various functions of C++, and second because a lot of programs, especially Linux programs, are written in C.
OOP, or Object-Oriented Programming, is a method of programming that needs to be built into the language. It's too technical to explain without knowledge of how programming works, but anyway, C doesn't support it, and C++, Java, Python, etc. do support it.
The primary purpose of C++ is actually to add object-oriented programming to C. That also makes it a lot more complicated.
I still hold that you ought to learn C first, first because it will get you acquainted some of the various functions of C++, and second because a lot of programs, especially Linux programs, are written in C.
I agree with ashibaka. I learned C first and used it for a year or two before I took a class to learn C++. The C class I used had "A Book on C" as the official text, but honestly I hated that book, and after the 2nd week of class I never opened it.
A book that I highly recommend is "Programming With Objects" by Avinash Kak. (this book assumes that the reader has a good knowledge of C) Professor Kak is my professor here at Purdue, and this book is written very well. In sample code Prof Kak labels lines (#A, #B, #C) and then explains what that line of code is doing. Its the first book that I actually continued reading during the entire semester, and when there was an exam and I needed to study all I had to do was read the book. Oh yeah, Prog W/ Objects teaches you C++ and Java concurrently and compares the benefits and drawbacks of both languages. Only programming book I've ever read (out of say 10 books) that I recommend to others :D
BASIC is useless for teaching programming. It does not teach you anything you need to know for today. It is about twenty years old, and therefore it teaches you twenty-year-old programming techniques. So, if you want to learn FORTRAN, I recommend BASIC.
I have to disagree. When first learning a programming language, the most important thing is to understand how to control the program flow. It is very easy to do in basic. The algorithms and techniques used today have not changed much at all. If you want to become a skilled programmer, you have to know the basics.
After you've grasped basic programming it is a trivial thing to learn a new language.
OOP, or Object-Oriented Programming, is a method of programming that needs to be built into the language. It's too technical to explain without knowledge of how programming worksActually, you do not need to know anything about programming to understand OO(P). Our whole world is a big object oriented design. Eg. You don't have to know how the engine of a car works to drive a car. The car is an object. You only know how to use the object.
SiL Eighty
2004-02-04, 22:10
Thanks again for all the Info. I will most likely take your guy's advice when I start looking into C and C++. For now I'm content w/ HTML. Another Question though. How different are C++, python, java, and HTML/XML?? If you know one does it help out with the other one like with HTML and XML??
Thanks again for all the Info. I will most likely take your guy's advice when I start looking into C and C++. For now I'm content w/ HTML. Another Question though. How different are C++, python, java, and HTML/XML?? If you know one does it help out with the other one like with HTML and XML??HTML and XML are not programming languages. They are only document formats.
You can embed code into a document eg. Javascript into HTML.
Learning C or C++ without another programming language in your belt is really hard (well I still find it so) - just getting C syntax the way you mean it is tough enough.
If you don't know how to program in an Object Oriented style, I suggest learning Java first. It'll be more strict against making mistakes. So you find them sooner instead of wasting time debugging whether some variable was passed by pointer, reference, or value.
If you don't know what I was talking about above, learn Java. Or Perl. Or Python. Or Ruby. Those are sufficiently powerful to actually program in :-) but keep you from messing up royally.
I agree with ashibaka. I learned C first and used it for a year or two before I took a class to learn C++. The C class I used had "A Book on C" as the official text, but honestly I hated that book, and after the 2nd week of class I never opened it.Thanks for the information. I've never actually read that book, only K&R ;) So I won't recommend it in the future.
I think C syntax is good to learn because many other languages are based on it, like Perl, Java, and Javascript, and C++ of course. (Maybe you could try learning Perl instead of C.)
It beats hell out of TCL syntax :)
Wrox had published an intro book on learning object-oriented programming using Java, or "Beginning Java Objects", but it looks like a new version is now out so I can't recommend it to you. The previous version was decent, though, but it is still a very introductory book. You can do better if you want to start learning OOP.
Unfortunately, I've already boxed up (given away, planned to take, and such) my technical/programming books already...
Perl is another programming language that you might want to try; it was a very easy, IMHO, one to start. For intro books, Damian Conway is a great author; my company hired him to come to NYC and teach for a week, but even without the class, I thought his books were very good.
Never done PHP, and can't comment.
For C and C++, I would recommend that you spend some time in, say, Barnes and Noble and do some reading, and afterwards, decide for yourself if you want to go through C first. If you haven't programmed before, both may be hard to get a handle on initally so either way, you'll still have to struggle up that learning curve. C++ does, though, have more advanced bits than C (d'oh! :) ) as it's more powerful. I can also find more and better paying jobs with C++ than C, which is nice. :D
The "A Book on C" text was less... verbose, I thought, than some of the others; it still covered the same topics, though, but example-wise, IMHO, it was a bit lacking. I got more out of it later, but for an intro course, yuck! The Deitel & Deitel texts are expensive, but not too terrible; they seem to use the same examples, though, but changed to reflect the context?
What are you trying to do, however?
SiL Eighty
2004-02-05, 02:31
What are you trying to do, however?
Well for the HTML I wanna learn how to make webpages a such not just for the hell of it. But for The other more complicated stuff is actually for cars. I want knowledge in this so when I'm done getting my bachelors in mechanical engineering I can say Ya i can reconfigure the Program to that ECU to make this engine run better bleh blah blah type stuff. I want to basically be able to write programs so i can apply what i know about cars from my degree and apply that Engine Management systems and what not. Also I like to be able to mess with everything i work with its kinda of a habit. If I cant take it apart and put it together again than imma learn how to.
LOL ashibaka
Reason: despite the avatar, sil is male
If you decide to learn C or C++ and want to standardize the compilers you use to compile your programs in Unix/Linux and Windows, try MinGW (http://www.mingw.org/) for Windows. It's basically a Windows port of the popular gcc/g++ compiler system on Unix/Linux. It's free so you do not have to pay for Visual C++, and if your C/C++ code compiles on Linux, it should compile on Windows as well unless you use platform-specific libraries like the Windows API. :) I find this very useful since I can bring my code from Windows into Linux and vice versa without problems.
Sil Eighty - Embedded programming? Umm, you should be able to do this with either C or C++, but most of the text that I've seen on the subject are in C. You should, then, start here as it'll be easier to pick up learning material.
I've never touched this subject - and have spent my money on other subjects - but I can't imagine that you'll need much of the OO aspect of C++ for programming modules, chips, and such.
NightWish
2004-02-05, 10:34
ECUs? Embedded programming? ... Humm, you're talking parallel C here; a different ball-game to your regular ANSI-C. I would suggest you do what the others have said and start with the foundations though -- plain ANSI-C won't fail you :D. Once you've "mastered" (heh) that, moving onto parallel C will be easier. You'll be able to focus on concept of parallelism and the issues it raises without worrying about trying to learn the syntax.
The only other thing I would suggest you do is read: yes focus on learning C, but read around the subject of process control -- it is a lot more than the software and I'm sure it will interest and focus you. It would also be worth your while looking at things like VHDL (http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/vhdl) and similar ASIC (http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/Application-Specific+Integrated+Circuit) programming languages... as that might be what you'll use while working on ECUs and the like.
I have to disagree. When first learning a programming language, the most important thing is to understand how to control the program flow. It is very easy to do in basic. The algorithms and techniques used today have not changed much at all. If you want to become a skilled programmer, you have to know the basics.
...
Program flow? In BASIC?! Can you say goto?
Oh wait, you can...
SiL Eighty
2004-02-05, 13:15
LOL I see more and more things I have to look up. All in one day :eek3: Oh well, I need to know this stuff so I can get a job at NISMO :heh: . That be great lol. Anyway I'm gunna take a college class for C than over the summer. Any info on what might the class might be called and what classes to avoid?? 'Cuz i know they dont have any classes saying "Data Prgraming C" bleh blah blah, and the programing classes they useually have are shady. You dont exactly know what ur going to learn till u get the book -.-'' . Well thats at the Community College anyway.
My intro class for C programming was called just that. It really doesn't matter what the name is, though, but try and get the course syllabus first to see what you'll be covering in the sessions. If you're still in high school, I would also see if your college/university will take that class's grade for one of the programming requirements, if your department has one. It should be an easy A if you have to take an intro course again, but it's still a waste of your time and money, IMHO.
Embedded programming is, as you may gather from Nightwish's post, pretty specialized. I have a M.E. degree, and I don't remember ever seeing a course for it in my department, though. Of course, it could just be my not being interested in this sort of thing back then. :) This sounds more like an E.E. or CS track, to be honest.
SiL Eighty
2004-02-05, 17:18
I'm trying to get my Bachelors in M.E. on the side while still learning the stuff for my current job.
Mr. Bushido
2004-02-18, 01:28
i dont know how long this thread was inactive, but im bumping it cuz i need help too.
i started out with C++ (and currently am learning)... from what i read on this forum, its a horrible language to start out with. not to mention my text book sucks ass, and i wonder if my teacher knows C++ himself. What book is currently the best in ur opinion for C++? also wat other languages should i learn to make C++ a less of a pain in the arse?
im still in high school, but i plan on working on the computer field. Not sure which. But im thinking of something along the lines of ethical hacker/network security to a software developer. I want to get a head start so it wont feel like too much is headed at me at once when im off to college. So wat languages are a "must" to learn? and can anyone recommend me on how i should tackle at cmp programming? im sure there are more ppl here who have started programming at high school or even younger.
EDIT: i heard BASIC is obsolete... and it think my C++ books says that Pascal is not really important anymore... is this true?
btw... wats the difference between linux and windows? ive never seen, yet alone used linux before. Ive only used macs at the school library. -_- isnt it really hard to run lots of programs and games on linux?
Well C++ is not really that bad to start from. Many languages are based on C++ like Java (it's not based on C++, but if you know C++ learning Java is a lot easier) and Visual C++. I would suggest a good book, but I dunno any good ones in english (amazon might).
Pascal?...Well delphi is based on it and Kylix is delphi for linux. Delphi/Kylix is basicly easy way to code GUI apps for both linux and windows.
As for linux http://www.linux.org/info/index.html
Prince of Chronics
2004-02-18, 05:45
You can learn HTML and XML here:
http://www.w3schools.com/
Remember to always write proper, standard HTML, so that everyone can read it. W3Schools will teach you the right way.
That URL is one of my favorite links on the web... it was pretty damn helpful when I was doin that sort of stuff in my first semester....
Zoro - For C++, I would recommend "The C++ Programming Language" by Bjarne Stroustrup or "Thinking in C++". There are tons of books on the subject, though, but I prefer these two. I don't know of anyone working in either BASIC or Pascal, but VB.NET is another story.
i dont know how long this thread was inactive, but im bumping it cuz i need help too.
i started out with C++ (and currently am learning)... from what i read on this forum, its a horrible language to start out with. not to mention my text book sucks ass, and i wonder if my teacher knows C++ himself. What book is currently the best in ur opinion for C++? also wat other languages should i learn to make C++ a less of a pain in the arse?
im still in high school, but i plan on working on the computer field. Not sure which. But im thinking of something along the lines of ethical hacker/network security to a software developer. I want to get a head start so it wont feel like too much is headed at me at once when im off to college. So wat languages are a "must" to learn? and can anyone recommend me on how i should tackle at cmp programming? im sure there are more ppl here who have started programming at high school or even younger.
EDIT: i heard BASIC is obsolete... and it think my C++ books says that Pascal is not really important anymore... is this true?
btw... wats the difference between linux and windows? ive never seen, yet alone used linux before. Ive only used macs at the school library. -_- isnt it really hard to run lots of programs and games on linux?
I started out with BASIC before high school, then moved on to C/C++. Took me quite some time to learn that well because I didn't have a teacher. However, knowing C/C++ early helped me in my first few courses at college because those languages are the staple of programming classes. Some networking courses might use Java, but C/C++ are essential to know.
BASIC is obsolete, and has been replaced by Visual Basic, which is derived from BASIC but is much more powerful and is used to write GUI windows programs using Microsoft's compiler. Pascal was used in schools as the language of instruction for computer programming, but it has been replaced by C++.
SirJeannot
2004-02-22, 17:53
xml tutorial
<tag>information</tag>
you've learned xml, ... now lean xsl, that's the real challenge :D
xml isn't a language, it's a format to ... uh ... format :D data, that's all
Rheinhard
2004-02-23, 02:45
I think C syntax is good to learn because many other languages are based on it, like Perl, Java, and Javascript, and C++ of course. (Maybe you could try learning Perl instead of C.)
It beats hell out of TCL syntax :)
I agree with this assessment on learning C, since so much else is based on it. And don't forget, UNIX itself was written in C! So C is the "lingua franca" of UNIX - if you really want to "get" UNIX and Linux I think knowning C is a must.
However, Perl beating hell out of TCL syntax? What planet are you living on? How can a language even be said to have a syntax when almost every combination of typeable characters is an operational command? Have you never heard of "obfuscated perl"? :)
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