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NoSanninWa
2008-05-27, 05:34
Welcome to the monthly discussion thread for Claymore, Chapter 80.
The thread was created before the chapter was published. Usually false spoilers start to appear early so (naturally) people always need a place to discuss them.
Thread Guidelines
Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
The Claymore manga is licensed by Viz so questions about scanlations or answers about scanlation are not allowed. Remember that AnimeSuki does not enable downloading of any licensed anime or manga.
Discuss your expectations of the chapter if it has not been published yet.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Please try to keep the discussion on topic.
Spoilers will not be policed in this thread, so if you haven't read the chapter yet, just stay out if you don't want to read spoilers.
Chapter 81 will probably be released on July 4th, a month from now. That's the usual release date, so I''ll create the new chapter 81 thread a few days before that... as usual.
First for the first time.:D
Will try to suppress the flow this time in case something unusual happens. But highly unlikely this time I think.:)
Wonder whats going to happen in C 80.???
Awakened
2008-05-27, 07:46
Clare and Cid will finally meet.
Clarice and Miata will join the ghost.
Galatea might join, if she does not, she will become Clare's siempea and teach her all she knows.
The Org had Lune watching the entire time.
@Awakened I want all that to be true but I think that most of it will be be about the orgs. big secret
hehe we'll finally meet Raki after 7 years =]
Rabona will have to wait :P
Justice Knight
2008-05-27, 08:59
june doesnt have claymore?
Eagerly awaiting installment no. 80 too :D
Yagi needs to do some explaining after the big revelations in chapter 79. This chapter can make or break the momentum which began with the ghosts arriving in Rabona. So I'll be watching how the story turns out.
ghazghkull
2008-05-27, 11:10
*sets down his bag, unpack his gear, sets up a tent and make camp in what will be the long line-up to wait for the next Claymore edition*
All I can say is, I'm ready, and I'm raring to read the chapter when it comes out :D
As long as it stays interesting, and the author doesn't trip and fumble (which I believe he wanted to avoid, hence the one month hiatus a while back) we should be in for a wild ride :D
june doesnt have claymore?
no there will be claymore this month... If there isn't a chapter this month I'll see if i can go into coma for 30 days.
Hell yeah....!! I wish Claymore would be released weekly.
Its damn hard to wait for a month...
irvinethearcher
2008-05-27, 13:59
Quality has it's price :p
If you know bleach you understand...
@irvinethearcher: To true
Sleepy Speculator
2008-05-27, 15:20
Well i have to agree, that taking bets on whether Lune or the org turns up with something in this chapter is an intriguing possibility. Other candidates for the long time no see treatment are as follows
- Father Vincent
- Raki
- Rubul
- Ilena
- Rapheala
- Riful (again)
@Enara - lol good luck getting a hospital bed if that was the case as i'm sure the hospitals will be struggling with awakened related injuries.
chibamonster
2008-05-27, 15:36
@Enara: Lol, so I am not the only one who thought of going into a coma instead of waiting for something.
Hmm. I think Clarice and Galatea will have their chance to react. I do not see Clarice just saying, "oh ok" and joining. I think there will be some definite struggle here. I mean her entire world has just been pulled apart. She and Miata are the only 2 still in the organization. The other 8 are outside anyway and have made their choice to leave. The last time someone's world view was smashed in this badly was when Priscilla fought Teresa.
Well, Riful tried a mind game on Jean and Isley pulled a fast one on Riful, but this is some pretty heavy stuff for Clarice to hear. I am not sure how much Miata has thought about this. But if youma killed her family she might go berserk against the organization. Her past is obviously a part of the story so something will set her off. I am also dying to see Raphaela, but it might be a while.
As for what will happen I think something very bad is at the door steps. Not necessarily the next chapter but in the next few. I doubt Claymore is going to change to a very happy story.
tenken627
2008-05-27, 15:48
Maybe in this chapter we'll finally find out Miria's big secret.
j/k
It just feels right typing that in since that phrase has been in written in every single chapter thread for a long time.
Mabye Clarice and Miata will decide to join them at the end of the chapter, thats what I think. Anyways its pretty obvious that Cid will fall head over heels once he gets to talk to Clare again. LOL
@chibamonster, mabye Raphaela will show up as a french maid right. LMAO
Bikerider
2008-05-27, 17:49
Fake Spoilers !! I Want Fake Spoilers !!!
NoSanninWa
2008-05-27, 18:00
Fake Spoilers !! I Want Fake Spoilers !!!
I think fake spoilers are just slightly better than constipation. Ug.
Fake Spoilers !! I Want Fake Spoilers !!!
No fake spoilers give me headaches! AAAAAAAAAAAH!
NoSanninWa
2008-05-27, 18:56
Wait... do you mean that "No fake spoilers" give you headaches?
Or did you mean, "No, fake spoiler spoilers give me headaches!"
That comma is important.
Wonder whats going to happen in C 80.???
Sure bets:
- Find out more from Miria (especially how she knows what she knows)
- Clarice will cry (again)
50/50s:
- Cid/Galk will finally talk to Clare and company
- Galatea finally regnerates her arm
- We'll find out that the Organization is observing
- At least the last 2 pages will not take place in Rabona
Longshots:
- We find out info about Raki/Pricilla
On a little more long term note... What if Clare and Miata go back to the Org to act as spies on the inside. That would really suck, because Galatea would die (probably by her own hands too, since Clarice is too incompetant to do it). What a horrible thought - but I just can't stop worrying about her...
what dose LMAO mean
and I think hell88 means "No, fake spoiler spoilers give me headaches!"
what dose LMAO mean
google is your friend.
LMAO - Laughing My ...er...backside... Off
sometimes extended to:
ROTFLMAO - Rolling On The Floor, LMAO
I like to know what proof a hunter group needs to prove they killed a Claymore deserter. The head?, their sword?, body parts?, or...???
Galatea's cutoff arm is somewhere in the debris. Miata can sniff it out and bring it back as 'proof' and/or take some Agatha parts back. Doubt the Org will mess with Clarice as long as Miata is around. Yagi may decide to have Clarice and Miata join the ghosts or become insider spies. Either way Clarice and Miata may become a problem since they don't have the training to hide their yoki. Would be easy for the Org to track them down or find them if they are in somebody's sensing range. Plus the MiB's know they are around or near Rabona.
NoSanninWa
2008-05-27, 19:31
I like to know what proof a hunter group needs to prove they killed a Claymore deserter. The head?, their sword?, body parts?, or...???
Prove? I'm assuming that the MiBs have spies that will tell them what happened. This was hardly low profile after all. I don't think they could possibly convincingly fake it.
Or did you mean, "No, fake spoiler spoilers give me headaches!"
That comma is important.
Thats what I meant. I forgot the comma. Enara knew what I meant too.
:heh:
Siegzon Caritas
2008-05-27, 20:29
Prove? I'm assuming that the MiBs have spies that will tell them what happened. This was hardly low profile after all. I don't think they could possibly convincingly fake it.
Then it follows the Ghosts are now revealed to the Organization as the Lost Warriors of the North. Depending on how good their spies are they may have even heard Miria's surprising speech. There was enough time to get a spy to the scene (I'm only basing this on the fact that there was enough time to marshall troops to the scene of the Agatha fight and such a fight would be intensely interesting to even the dullest org spy)
If so, the next move by the Org should be interesting.
NoSanninWa
2008-05-27, 20:43
I doubt they could hear Miria's speach. They could see everything, but all the humans were keeping a large distance from the Claymore so they couldn't hear a single word.
chibamonster
2008-05-27, 20:54
They already know there are survivors me thinks. Enough suspicion from having Clarice and her group survive along with Audrey and Rachels untimely return after meeting an Abyssal. Rubel probably knew the moment Clarice mentioned it. I think the organization has already been alerted. I hope Rubel comes and tries to make peace instead of the MiB's sicking Alicia and Beth on them. Rubel is going to drop a bomb on them of information when he meets them. "Haven't you figured it out? We MiB's are the dragons." Something to rock the world again.
Also I worry about Miata. Her ability is perfect for one thing: hunting down cloaked claymores. Especially ones whose smell she already knows. I do not think this will be lost on the story. Just like Raphaela's soul linking ability must play a future role as well.
Negativedark
2008-05-27, 21:12
I predict the chapter will open with a bit like something out of a historical text talking about the great apple shortage of Rabona....
But serously, I don't think we'll get too much more from Miria just now, I think she said most of what she knows. There may be one or two more tidbits, but that's it. In all honestly I would love it if all of the sudden they hear Rubel behind them say "That's not too bad a guess, although it's not compleatly accurete." Won't happen but it'd be cool. I figure most of this chapter will be devoted to them trying to talk Claris and Miatia into joining them.
Bikerider
2008-05-27, 22:48
Me thinks Cid or Galk has a younger brother / cousin who will express his undieing puppy devotion to a very embarassed and confused Miata.
What if it was the organization who planned the attack to people so they could get Claymore
who detest yoma.. That's why every Claymore are girls who have survived yoma attacks.
Maybe the yoma was ordered by the organization to kill all except the girl. Then the girl
becomes a trainee
What if it was the organization who planned the attack to people so they could get Claymore
who detest yoma.. That's why every Claymore are girls who have survived yoma attacks.
Maybe the yoma was ordered by the organization to kill all except the girl. Then the girl
becomes a trainee
And Raki's brother... just couldn't tell the difference with all that crying you think?
-I hope to see a few more images of the dragons
-Galatea growing her arm\eyes back
-Clarice pulling herself together
- New face\s.. maybe new characters shown..
yezhanquan
2008-05-28, 03:06
The time of the month again. Hang in there. Just a few more days. Resist the fake spoilers .(Unlike Bleach, the rumours we get for Claymore here are, for most of the time, whole lies.)
Sordes Pilosus
2008-05-28, 04:34
Well we can tell a few things for certain that will happend, providing the fact that C80 Stays in Rabona which is atlest 75% Likly based on how C79 ended. What we can tell will happend is more reactions to Miria's speach, most likly Focus will be on Clarice and Miata in this since for Galatea even if she disagree's with whats said she would stil be pretty much part of the Ghosts after this, but Clarice and Miata are in a conflict zone and if they decidede to stay with the Org they know of 8 Claymore's where atlest 3 are very Troublesome (Clare, Miria and Galatea) are around them. So we will get some answers around this bit which is pretty certain but it doesent need to be to many pages as a whole, im guessing around half the chapter will revolve around this.
The second half, while perhaps not in pages but importance is the Direction the Manga will head for a short while. Basicly will Riful or the Org be the focus now will be shown, most likly again by around 75% will be the Org. So im guessing we will see again a meeting between the MiB's and see a task force where most likly Number 9, 3 and 5 will be part of and we will get Lune Introduced aswell since i doubt Alica or Beth will be included in this just yet, they most likly will be part of it when the Org at some point falls, again perhaps when Clare releases her own Youki again (Along with Miria she has the best Combat Abilities that dont require Youki so most likly the ones last to release).
-I hope to see a few more images of the dragons
-Galatea growing her arm\eyes back
-Clarice pulling herself together
- New face\s.. maybe new characters shown..
I think Galatea getting her eyes back is a bit of a long shot. Although that might be more probable than Miata growing up :heh:
zato_1one
2008-05-28, 12:48
It may be a flash back chapter showing how Miria found out the secret.
irvinethearcher
2008-05-28, 13:58
I am also dying to see Raphaela, but it might be a while.
speculation:raffaella will apear perhaps at the end of claymore and help/train clare in /for her last fight with a soullink or something like that. Perhaps she will redeem herself and find peace at the end. If she comes back then it will probably be the turn of the tides.
chibamonster
2008-05-28, 15:10
I agree, it will probably be a while before my favorite claymore cyclopes shows up. We have yet to see her fight and with power to be an Abyssal if she awakened she would probably be over kill for anything but the most bleak situations. Especially being the cloaked renegade who has been trained to soul link. I need to know whether she killed Irene or not. I think she did and if so Raphaela will need some definite redemption for killing an unarmed elf. I am interested to see what Raphaela's personality is actually like and how much she knows about the organization from being so intimately involved with their most secretive projects.
irvinethearcher
2008-05-28, 15:55
I don't judge raffaella on killing irene, she had in a way no choice because she wanted the information from the org about her sister, so she was the "cleaner" for the org. She's not bad imo. She's another victim of the org, like all the others. She felt guilty about her sister and was ready to do everything to erase her debts to her sister, she believed she had. At irenes "death" clare's arm reacted. IMO there are simply to possibilys for such a thing:
1. most probably irene is now in claymore heaven
2. irene awakened but this seems to be impossible because rafaella killed luciella and theres no way for rafaella to survive an #2 awakening.
It is even possible that raffaella comited suicide but i don't hope so. I hope something let her keep going on.
It is indeed interesting what raffaella knows, because she is probably the claymore with the most knowledge of the org's structure.
Sleepy Speculator
2008-05-28, 16:37
@chiba shame on you, i think some people don't get your brand of sarcasm... i certainly do though :)
Ancient Soul
2008-05-28, 22:25
I hope that Father Vicent will enter the scene and give The Ghosts more info if not about The ORG at least about The Island as a whole.A surprise will be that he know more about The ORG than Miria.A small chance that somehow he know and work with Rubel!Also i find strange that Rabona is not plagued by youma (they are rich, rich enough to get infiltrated a few times a year by youma)(Clare incident back there could have been the only youma in Rabona in history!).The presence of Agatha is just because the AO are on the move.Hope that Rabona is more than just the Holy City.
hmm. I wonder if Clare still has something that used to belong to Raki, Could have Miata get a good whiff of it and track Raki down for her.
- just trying to think of other "uses" for Miata other than hunting down cloaked warriors.
Also, depending on the situation and how things flow from here. I see Clare becoming envious of Clarice and Miata's current relationship.
chibamonster
2008-05-28, 23:07
Miata could sniff out awakened beings. Like Riful, Isley, Alicia and Priscilla. They might have something of Raki's at Rabona. Although really her power is so suited for tracking and fighting cloaked claymores I think that has to be part of her character. Her power makes up for not being able to sense them. Maybe her role was just to bring Galatea back in the story, but I think she will use the power again.
I can sense trouble in Miata..
Something is not right with her...
- I would like to see Galatea get herself together and have control on the situation, because last time I was a bit disappointed on how she was acting such a n@@b!
She is former rank #3, she should at least know something.. I mean she was the Org`s "EYE" right..
-I would also like to see new faces come in the picture.. new IMPORTANT characters.
Oh and
irvinethearcher@
Irene is not dead!
- I would like to see Galatea get herself together and have control on the situation, because last time I was a bit disappointed on how she was acting such a n@@b!
She is former rank #3, she should at least know something.. I mean she was the Org`s "EYE" right..
Yeah, it's surprising - she should know at least smth more about yoma and this org's laboratory ... however - she didn't know about Alicia/Beth - she was very surprised seeing them in fight. She had no informations about soul link experiment.
Oh and
irvinethearcher@
Irene is not dead!
Hmmm and why is that?
I like Irene too, but unfortunatelly she's dead - was killed by Rafa.
I hope that Rafaela and Luciella are somewhere in the island and they are alive - hope that Luciella is back - as claymore.
for now we should guess that Irene is 95% dead. it makes me sad but it's true.
I also think theirs something not right with miata
weirdo487
2008-05-29, 08:28
hey its not confirmed that Irene is dead yet so she could still be alive (we can hope :p)
I'm in agreement with the opinion that Galatea is in the dark about the whole other continent thing. That bit of information will probably get her to change her mind about joining the ghosts.
yezhanquan
2008-05-29, 09:14
I'm pretty sure that Irene is wise enough to pick her words during that part with Rafaela. If she holds a piece of the puzzle, then I'm further convinced that she would not die.
The way I see it, the following ladies each have a piece of the jigsaw puzzle (the secrets/riddle behind the organisation):
1) Miria - most important piece (existence of another continent)
2) Galatea - she witnessed the twins' display of power
3) Rafaela - the original experiment
4) Riful - If she knows absolutely nothing, I'll flip
5) Irene - a guess
The thing is, so far, no one has been able to gather all the pieces (or even more than 1) and put them together. So, this chapter, I think we'll see Galatea and Miria putting their pieces together to get a better picture.
For speculation, I believe that Rafaela and Irene put their pieces together. Seriously, I don't believe that Rafaela's dead.
Goofus Maximus
2008-05-29, 10:10
I'm dreading the possibility that chapter 80 will switch completely to the Raki/Priscilla/Easley story arc, leaving us hanging with regards to what happens in Rabona. Though even then, we may get another ground-shaking revelation from that angle as well...
chibamonster
2008-05-29, 10:14
You mean like when we suddenly had the 5 month wait before we found out what happened in Rabona because of the extra chapters? That would be intense.
@ yezhanquan: I do not see any way Raphaela is dead either. She has been mentioned several times. The MiB's mentioned she is no longer with them and the ghosts mentioned that Raphaela might be able to find them if anyone could. I am just curious when she is going to show up and what she will be like. Time certainly changed Irene from what we saw in her originally.
irvinethearcher
2008-05-29, 10:23
Yeah, she's further mentioned in the manga, so the probability is high that she is alive - i missed that in my earlier post:)
Fake spoiler from tsstory.com XD
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj161/jonovax/0504_rp_edited_fin_ws_o_s.png
ahahahahahahahahaa
SUPERB !! :heh:
That was hilarous! This one month respite between releases is giving way too much time to the fanbase..
SUPERB !! :heh:
I will also say SUPERB but I will have to fill you in on something.
About a week ago I went to Barns and Noble and got claymore vol. 11. loin AB does not say SUPERB he says magnificent. :frustrated::frustrated::frustrated::frustrated: the outrage
What if Irene knew about the Island being a laboratory and the whole story about claymores?
I`m mean that should be enough for her to get away from being killed by Rafeala
I pretty sure she wasn`t just traveling around the island for nothing. She must at least found out something.
It would be awesome of she completed the story for Miria later on if they meet her.
And
Irene is not cocky nor does she have much arrogance, so I doubt she would state that she wasn`t going to be killed easily without arms for nothing..
So the way that the manga presented her she is almost always right, she isn`t the person with much confidence.. She is all about facts and what possible and not possible.
So I don`t see her being proved wrong in such way.. Last time she was proved wrong was the Teresa hunt, about how she she underestimated her a little.
Irene is 95% alive.
And
...Irene is not cocky nor does she have much arrogance, so I doubt she would state that she wasn`t going to be killed easily without arms for nothing...
she never said that.
------
I'm more inclined to believe Irene's arm was reacting to Ophelia's presence over her suddenly pushing up daisies. I think their is a reason we don't witness her death or what followed after her encounter with Raphaela. and I believe their is more of a reason for Raphaela to be the one to find her over some other person (like Galatea for example)
Awakened
2008-05-29, 15:23
Those of you that believe Irene is still alive, explain why Clare felt something from Irene arm right after Irene and Raphaela met?
Defiled one
2008-05-29, 15:24
So, who do we have to sacrifice to summon chapter 80? :D I volunter.
I suggest my friends little brother
Kinematics
2008-05-29, 15:45
To be clear, in the manga Irene was not concerned about her lack of arms, saying that fate makes its own plans or something like that (mainly as a reference to the fact that she didn't need to fight anymore, and the arm was given to someone who could make use of it). In the anime, she made the comment that even with both arms she'd probably have a tough time fighting Rafaela.
As for why Rafaela was there, it had been close to two weeks since Clare was supposed to have met up with Ophelia for the hunt (1 week asleep plus at least several days training), and no word had come back. Rubel undoubtedly had her go check things out. The only question is whether he had any particular standing orders for Rafaela regarding Irene, or if Rafaela was simply carrying out the existing execution order.
Rubel being one who plays his cards very close to his chest, I suspect he wouldn't be giving special orders that could easily be traced to him. He might give 'suggestions', though. While Rafaela generally seems to be pretty heartless aside from her issues with her sister, she was still relieved when she found out that Teresa didn't have a sister (and was thus not part of the soul link experiments). There are still a few small windows of opportunity to allow for Irene to still be alive, but we have nothing to either support or disprove whether those windows exist. Until then, Irene stays cuddled up with the cat, both alive and dead at the same time.
weirdo487
2008-05-29, 16:49
@ the doubters
my thinking is that someone of Irene's considerable power would be able to escape such a situation if she needed to.
Until then, Irene stays cuddled up with the cat, both alive and dead at the same time.
I LOLed when i read that, awesome use of Schroedinger's example :D
we've already seen what happens when a number two (plus three others) tries to fight the number one, or someone equal to a number one. Raphaela.
Fake spoiler from tsstory.com XD
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj161/jonovax/0504_rp_edited_fin_ws_o_s.png
LOL So thats the big secret about where there claymore swords come from.:heh:
weirdo487
2008-05-29, 17:02
we've already seen what happens when a number two (plus three others) tries to fight the number one, or someone equal to a number one. Raphaela.
i didn't mean that Irene would be fighting (no argument that she without her arms would lose) but that Irene would have found some way to escape (given that she is also one of the most intelligent claymores, on par with Miria and Galatea id say)
Those of you that believe Irene is still alive, explain why Clare felt something from Irene arm right after Irene and Raphaela met?
That could have been Irene dropping her yoki level so that she couldn't be senced by anyone in the org. Raphaela could of told her to do so, so she wouldn't have to kill her because Irene probably told her something valuable.
But then again she could be dead, but I hope not because Irene is one of my favourite charaters. I won't believe she is dead unless Raphaela shows up and says she killed her, or if Clare goes to look for Irene, because remember when Clare left Irene she said she would come back to give her back her arm.
LOL So thats the big secret about where there claymore swords come from.:heh:
Those evil Chinese. So they are behind the Org...
Just kidding. I'm also Chinese. Claymore is quite a hit in Hong Kong.
yezhanquan
2008-05-29, 18:07
Those of you that believe Irene is still alive, explain why Clare felt something from Irene arm right after Irene and Raphaela met?
That's because the arm sensed that its former master is under threat. What we do not know is what happens after that.
King Lycan
2008-05-29, 18:28
Those of you that believe Irene is still alive, explain why Clare felt something from Irene arm right after Irene and Raphaela met?
There was an theory a long time saying that Irene Awakened or Half Awakended or something :eyespin:
Kinematics
2008-05-29, 18:47
Those of you that believe Irene is still alive, explain why Clare felt something from Irene arm right after Irene and Raphaela met?
Possibilities:
Rafaela just killed Irene
Rafaela just began her attack, and Irene's body reacted to the threat
The arm is reacting to the presense of an awakened being (Ophelia)
Irene just sealed her own youki
Irene's youki was forcibly sealed by Rafaela (possible special technique?)
Soul link/soul transfer - beyond sisters, beyond twins, the transfer of the soul to the only still-living portion of the body. Possibly assisted by Rafaela.
In all honesty, the real question is why is Irene's arm reacting to anything at all? It's been separated from the original body, and so there should be no way for anything affecting Irene to carry through to the arm. We accept it and try to find a cause, but what we should explain first is the effect. Only #'s 3 and 6 explain the effect as well as the cause.
There has been no indication since that time that the arm provides any sort of special sensitivity to youki, and that wasn't Irene's specialty anyway. It's highly unlikely that #3 is valid.
#6 just came to mind while making this list, and the possibility that Rafaela has some unusual techniques available to her due to her part in the experiment. We've never seen her fight, so have no idea of what she can really do.
Or it could be #1, and just simple dramatic effect.
Possibilities:
Rafaela just killed Irene
Rafaela just began her attack, and Irene's body reacted to the threat
The arm is reacting to the presense of an awakened being (Ophelia)
Irene just sealed her own youki
Irene's youki was forcibly sealed by Rafaela (possible special technique?)
Soul link/soul transfer - beyond sisters, beyond twins, the transfer of the soul to the only still-living portion of the body. Possibly assisted by Rafaela.
I thought of another one:
What if Irene somehow managed to regenerate her arm really fast and it made the other one react to it because it was on someone else's body, then she started to fight Raphaela.
I think Irene's arm on Clare reacted because whatever happened to Irene, her yoki must of acted like a soul link between Irene and her arm, and mabye thats what Clare felt.
chibamonster
2008-05-29, 19:48
Hmmm. Irene's arm almost seems to have a mind of its own to some extent. Clare has asked for Irene's help in dire situations like with the youki manipulating AB in the north. It certainly maintains some of its original youki (or something like that) as it can still do the quicksword/windcutter and others can sense that it is borrowed. As the same AB said, "only her right arm is on a completely different level!?". Clare carries a piece of Irene with her on several levels. So I am not sure what reasoning the arm had to react. I think it was intentionally ambiguous but I am led to believe it has most to do with Irene's fate, whatever it may be. I also liked the cat comment for Irene.
It is interesting to note that we do not know exactly why Raphaela was there. Did they give her a hit list? If so how did she know Irene's youki? Or did she stumble upon her... Raphaela is really a fairly mysterious character as well as one that fascinates me. When she reappears, which she will, we will most likely be given some closure to what happened to Irene.
When Rapaheala comes back and see's Clare she'll probably say something like this. "Oh its you, you were the one that Irene gave her arm to. That was her name wasn't it? Or at least that was her name." Indicating that she killed Irene, or she is just trying to piss off Clare by saying something like that to make her think she is dead. Then Clare will go berserk just like she did in the anime when she was saying Teresa's name when she was getting angry at Priscilla except she will be saying Irene's name instead.
King Lycan
2008-05-29, 20:01
._.well i really hope that Yagi can just tell us if Irene is dead or alive lol cause this suspense is killing me o_O
I know what you mean, its been killing me sence Clare had that reaction in her arm. Thats a long time.
._.well i really hope that Yagi can just tell us if Irene is dead or alive lol cause this suspense is killing me o_O
No suspence. She's dead. Clare had no tea cup that could crack, so the hand twitch was the next best thing :P
It's quite obvious to those that read between the lines that Luciella ate Irene shortly after Raphaela, Luciella and Irene started travelling together after Isley fight. I mean, seriously, what else could Luciella eat? She wouldn't eat her sister!
Awakened
2008-05-29, 21:23
Possibilities:
Rafaela just killed Irene
Rafaela just began her attack, and Irene's body reacted to the threat
The arm is reacting to the presense of an awakened being (Ophelia)
Irene just sealed her own youki
Irene's youki was forcibly sealed by Rafaela (possible special technique?)
Soul link/soul transfer - beyond sisters, beyond twins, the transfer of the soul to the only still-living portion of the body. Possibly assisted by Rafaela.
#6 just came to mind while making this list, and the possibility that Rafaela has some unusual techniques available to her due to her part in the experiment. We've never seen her fight, so have no idea of what she can really do.
Or it could be #1, and just simple dramatic effect.
After thinking about it, I give Irene 50/50 chance of been alive.
At first I thought Irene was dead, but Rafaela using soul-link on Irene got me thinking.
1) Rafaela must be really heartless to kill someone with no arms.
2) Yagi has never been shy when it comes to killing a character, so why leave Irene fate unknown? He used that same trick after the war in the North, with Priscilla talking about lights going out.
So if Irene is alive Rafaela needed to seal her yoki so no one else finds her. If Irene is alive I think she has one of Rafaela's arms.
You know, I find this patently unfair to Luciella.
I think Luciella was as cool a character as Irene, if not more so. Her trash talk and inuendo to Isley was hilarious. Meanwhile Irene was the leader of the party responsible for Teresa's death - a crime beyond forgiveness.
Irene and Luciella have fates uncertain, but all anyone cares about is Irene. I mean, like, really... what wrong with everyone? Luciella *IS* prettier, *HAS* better fashion sense, and a much more like-able personality.
Besides, if Irene was truely sorry, she could have swapped legs with Clare too, for an added power up... but did she? Nooooooooo! I mean how selfish and self centered can you get?
Awakened
2008-05-29, 21:45
You know, I find this patently unfair to Luciella.
I think Luciella was as cool a character as Irene, if not more so. Her trash talk and inuendo to Isley was hilarious. Meanwhile Irene was the leader of the party responsible for Teresa's death - a crime beyond forgiveness.
Irene and Luciella have fates uncertain, but all anyone cares about is Irene. I mean, like, really... what wrong with everyone? Luciella *IS* prettier, *HAS* better fashion sense, and a much more like-able personality.
Besides, if Irene was truely sorry, she could have swapped legs with Clare too, for an added power up... but did she? Nooooooooo! I mean how selfish and self centered can you get?
Sorry, but I think Luciella is dead. She lost all her yoki, so she is as was as weak as a human. No yoki equal no regeneration, no healing, no AB powers equal a dead Luciella.
Unlike Irene, we saw Luciella's lifeless arm falling to her sister’s side.
lol, Clare does not need Irene's legs, she need Miria's. PHANTOM CLARE
Sorry, but I think Luciella is dead. She lost all her yoki, so she is as was as weak as a human. No yoki equal no regeneration, no healing, no AB powers equal a dead Luciella.
Unlike Irene, we saw Luciella's lifeless arm falling to her sister’s side.
lol, Clare does not need Irene's legs, she need Miria's. PHANTOM CLARE
In your list of "no"s you forgot a couple important ones: 1) NO injury! and with Raphaela being the party involved it's likely that 2) NO ONE WILLING TO KILL HER.
Luciella's alive. More so than some NO name rookie (to Raphaela at least) with NO arms and NO reason to be left alive... like say... Irene at least. Or do you get the impression that Raphaela, the Org's cleanup crew, often disobeyed orders about killing those she was sent to erase?
weirdo487
2008-05-29, 22:43
Its not that Raphaela didn't try, its just that Irene (who needs to be able to move on par with Miria (over short distances at least) to use the flash sword) could probably use that speed to haul butt some where she was safe. And the arm could have been reacting to that instead of her death. and if thats not how she got away then she managed some how ( as i said she is in my opinion one of the smarter claymores and thus probably had an escape route.)
NoSanninWa
2008-05-30, 01:03
In all honesty, the real question is why is Irene's arm reacting to anything at all?
Everyone is paying way too much attention to this. Asking why Irene's arm reacts to anything is like asking why dishes break or pictures fall from tables when someone is in trouble. I'm sure you've all seen an anime or ten where someone gets such an intimation of doom when a beloved person is harmed. This is exactly the same thing. It's just an arm twinge instead of a broken teacup.
Her arm feels a twinge because its original owner is harmed simply because that makes sense when viewed through a lens of Japanese folklore.
yezhanquan
2008-05-30, 01:07
*clap hands* NSW sure helped clear that up among the newbies.
Anyway, no luck with the Chinese subs at point of writing. The wait continues.
Kinematics
2008-05-30, 02:27
@NSW:
As I said, it could simply be dramatic effect. However, how often does Yagi employ such cliches?
I think I might remember a single "sneezing when someone's talking about you" moment in the entire run of Angel Densetsu (and I'm not entirely sure about that; memory's a bit fuzzy). Yagi seems to assiduously avoid a lot of the common cliches in anime, part of what I love about his work. In any other series I'd dismiss it as just such a gimmick. In Claymore, though, there seems to be a reason for everything that happens, and a very solid grounding in the realism of his world. As such, I'm not entirely willing to disbelieve that there might be some alternate purpose for it.
In any case, I've run through just about everything I can speculate about over the last few weeks, and very few seem willing to argue counterpoints against me (though I'm very grateful to those who keep the discussions going in other ways). I'll allow for an "Irene is dead until blatantly shown otherwise" conclusion based on the cliche effect if you can show at least a few more samples of such writing (not just this technique, but any general cliche fallback) in the series for me. Otherwise I'll leave her in the "probably dead, but waiting for some real proof" box.
NoSanninWa
2008-05-30, 04:27
A cliche can be used without being overused. I'm quite convinced that the reason for the twinge is rooted in the Japanese belief that people are connected regardless of distance.
It doesn't prove anything though. I agree that she is in the "probably dead, but waiting for some real proof" box. Even if the twinge in the arm was the equivalent of a broken picture frame all it implies is that Irene was in danger of her life, not necessarily that she died.
Sleepy Speculator
2008-05-30, 05:49
Can't everyone just agree to disagree...
@Cyclone, i hear what your saying :)
But to help i'd say the quantum nature of all of this means the box schrodinger put his cat in is getting pretty crowded, since Irene and Luciella are in there too, oh well at least it won't get lonely...
Irene can't have Rapheala's arms, she's an offensive type, she'd have no arms herself if she gave them to Irene, even one would be noticably missing when she later met Clare and Jean, and she's not likely to say anything about Irene cos she didn't even seem to put two and two together when she met that time as to why Clare's arm was different, or to the fact that Clare's yoki signature had been in the area where she 'killed' Irene, and she still had to ask which of the two claymores was Clare.
King Lycan
2008-05-30, 11:25
._. you guys are saying that Raph gave Irene her arms...um we saw her when she gave her sister the fatal huge
Awakened
2008-05-30, 11:34
._. you guys are saying that Raph gave Irene her arms...um we saw her when she gave her sister the fatal huge
She could have given it to her after she huged her sister.
King Lycan
2008-05-30, 12:08
._. she killed irene first :o
that's right - Irene kaputt ;)
Raphaela's and Luciella's status of living are not confirmed ;)
hope they're alive and show us their possibilities soon
chibamonster
2008-05-30, 14:54
I put Raphaela living right now at 100%. Yagi has even mentioned her several times to remind us that she is still in the story for foreshadowing reasons (I think). The ghosts mention that Raphaela might be able to locate them. They call her the other claymore who can suppress her youki but that means Raphaela. Then the MiB's mentioned that they no longer have use of Raphaela. Could mean her death but I do not think so.
As for Luciella I would not mind seeing her again. She had pretty hair and a cool dress which makes Riful's potato sack look pathetic in comparison. She was witty like Riful and defeated Isley in verbal kung fu. For a relatively minor character she got quite a nice entrance and exit from the story. Clean cut finish. As of right now there is nothing she still has to do in the story as all her ends are tied up. Her story was the motivation behind Raphaela; a much more important character to the series. I do not expect to see her again but could be pleasantly surprised.
As for Irene I would not mind seeing her leather clad elf yoda like self again. She seems more likely to be alive than Luciella for me because she did not get a visual death scene but I am not holding my breath for her. If yagi brings her back I am sure he would do it in a good way.
tenken627
2008-05-30, 15:59
I don't know about Irene surviving. Her words at the camp fire seemed to be ominous, that Clare staying alive will be the only proof that Teresa ever existed.
Priscilla barely knew Teresa, Raphaela barely knew Teresa, and every other Claymore from that time is long dead.
Besides the MiBs, only Clare and Irene would be considered to have spent some time with Teresa and know her somewhat. Now, it would only be Clare.
The current ranks like Audrey, Miata, Clarice, probably do not know who Teresa is. Even the older ranks like Galatea, Helen, Miria and Deneve probably have only heard of Teresa in tales or myths or they may never have heard of Teresa at all as well, which is kinda sad considering how powerful Teresa was.
chibamonster
2008-05-30, 17:01
Raphaela met Teresa and knows something about her, but apparently did not make the connection between Clare's youki and Teresa's youki when she met her. Irene so far has been the only person to piece together Clare's past and all that from knowing Teresa from before. Sensing Teresa in Clare drew her out of hiding. I do not think anyone else even knows that Clare is not 1/2 youma. I doubt that most members of the organization know about Priscilla either. Many knew about the 3 abyssals but no one, including the abyssals knew about Priscilla until they met her.
tenken627
2008-05-30, 17:15
Well to be fair, Irene did know Teresa for a long time it seems. Raphaela only briefly met Teresa while she was a child.
Irene may have seen Teresa as a rival, and may not even have liked her much during their Claymore days. But, she deeply respected Teresa. And Irene genuinely sounded pleased that Teresa was happy with Clare, if only for a brief time. At least Teresa had something, even if Irene herself had nothing.
Irene knew beforehand that the moment she uses Quicksword to teach Clare, she would be hunted and killed. And yet, not only did she teach Clare, she also willingly gave her only arm, when she knew that she was being hunted. Deep down inside, why would she do that?
I believe Irene didn't do it for herself or Clare. She did it for Teresa. And it meant more to her than her own life.
About anyone knowing Clare is 1/2 yoma, I'm not sure. The other trainee that bullied Clare knew that she had Teresa's flesh in her. Other trainees at that time probably knew as well.
But, that was a long time ago, with all of them dead. Galatea, Miria, Helen, and Deneve all seemed to be Claymores already when Clare was in training, so they probably wouldn't have heard about that kind of experiment. None of the new Claymores would know.
MalakTawus
2008-05-30, 19:05
I think Irene is alive because:
1.She could have made a deal with Raph
2.She can't beat Raph without arms,but I'm sure she could easily escape(it's very possible:come on!Riful is way stronger than Raph,but Helen and Denev could escape from her!.....and we all know that they are no match for her.....moral:if you are stonger you can win the battle, but only IF you are enought fast to corner the enemy into the battle.Irene has no arms but HAS legs.....).
About Claire,i bet in the future we'll find out that in reality she is hiding her real powers(Teresa's powers maybe...).If she has to kill Priscilla she has to aweken her real strenght,there's no training that can make her strong enought if she has no potential.....and she obviously has that......
As for Luciella I would not mind seeing her again. She had pretty hair and a cool dress which makes Riful's potato sack look pathetic in comparison. She was witty like Riful and defeated Isley in verbal kung fu. For a relatively minor character she got quite a nice entrance and exit from the story. Clean cut finish. As of right now there is nothing she still has to do in the story as all her ends are tied up. Her story was the motivation behind Raphaela; a much more important character to the series. I do not expect to see her again but could be pleasantly surprised.
I'm not exactly betting the house on it either, but I don't think her role is over. You said on several occassions that the soul link with Raphaela will come into play again, I think. With who did you mean? Clare?
I find it unlikely that Clare - no matter how special - could learn to soul link with Raphaela (nor after finding out about Irene would she probably want to). Soul link was something both sets of sisters were taught since early childhood, and for anyone else to master it within the course of a week seems impossible.
So if you want to see Raphaella do a soul link, then Luciella will have to be alive.
Now that I think about it though - maybe we're looking at the whole soul link thing wrong. Afterall, as cool as it be to watch the Alica v. Luciella fight, there is probably more to it than that. What if soul link holds the secret to something else - like getting rid of that pesky flesh eating habbit ABs have. It could provide a means of de-threatifying those that do over their limits - even without returning.
Torri_fay_torren@hot
2008-05-30, 20:53
About anyone knowing Clare is 1/2 yoma, I'm not sure. The other trainee that bullied Clare knew that she had Teresa's flesh in her. Other trainees at that time probably knew as well.
But, that was a long time ago, with all of them dead. Galatea, Miria, Helen, and Deneve all seemed to be Claymores already when Clare was in training, so they probably wouldn't have heard about that kind of experiment. None of the new Claymores would know.
Tenken I'm somewhat confused. How did the other Claymores know that she was only 1/4 a Claymore. I had assumed that they just knew that she was very weak, which was obvious to anyone. The organisation makes failures sometimes. Several people have mentioned it. So why would they think that Clare was any different then a normal failure? Her hair even changed color she was just weak. That Clare was 1/4 Claymore seems to have been some secret. Thats what I got at least. And even if it wasn't, Clare would not mention it.
chibamonster
2008-05-30, 21:07
Hehe, I love you tenken, but I am going to have to disagree about Irene not knowing Teresa well. Unlike everyone else involved in the hunt Irene knew Teresa inside and out (besides her hidden powers), had apparently underestimated her before, knew her personality, knew she had changed, knew how her ability worked and so on. She even planned an Ambush specially to get Teresa. Teresa knew Irene, talked with her, mentioned that her attack was better than before, and so on. Teresa did not talk to Noel and Sophia indicating she did not know or care about them. Irene never indicates that she wants to kill Teresa or that she deserves it. That is what Priscilla does. Teresa talks with Priscilla to give an FAQ on the organizations motivations.
I do not think Irene ever saw Teresa as a rival. Irene is not competitive like that. She observes and makes cool headed decisions. When she sensed Priscilla she immediately recognized her power and accepted her as a higher number. The one different thing I see is when she saw Teresa with Clare and even felt some jealousy as Teresa had obtained something Irene obviously wanted but never had. Irene knew Teresa's personality and understood why Clare had made such a difference.
@Cyclone: While I think Luciella could possibly be alive (slim) I do not think she has any more role with the soul link unless your theory is right. You know I am not a believer in the "RETURN FROM YOUR AWAKENING SISTER FLAMING SOUL HUG!" (said like Kamina from Gurren Lagann). I do not think Yagi gave any indication that Luciella lived through the encounter but that is me. When we talked about this before we decided if Raphaela did do it she used almost a completely new skill as Luciella's hair and eyes were still AB color. Not impossible to the story.
I do think the soul link is far from being completely exposed or at the limits of what is possible with it. Some people have said that Alicia and Beth have the only kind of soul link possible, I agree with you and think that there is much more to be discovered about what a soul link really is. If the person comes back from a fully awakened form does it matter if they are linked 100%? I do not think so.
If nothing else Raphaela knows the technique to teach the soul link. Just like Irene teaching Clare quicksword has a huge effect on the story, someone who knows how to soul link does not necessarily HAVE to soul link herself. It's not like Irene can use her quicksword anymore but it is still a huge part of the story.
How hard would a soul link be with a partially awakened claymore? I think much easier, even if it was not the same kind of soul link that alicia and beth had. I do not think a soul link with Clare would be out of the question. While it may not be a soul link technically I think the Clare link would be fine and Raphaela or Galatea could manage it. Partial awakening and Soul Link have to much in common to remain separate.
In the end I think they will discover a way to bring back awakened beings. Not all, but some. Priscilla is the most likely candidate in my mind at this point (if she maintained her youma hatred somewhere in her soul) unless one of the fab 4 awakens. We know that AB's can maintain varying degrees of what makes them human after they completely turn. We saw it in Ophelia and Hilda.
And as a side note, my own crazy theory: Clarice is also 1/4 from a fallen warrior like Clare but her source is Luciella. This is why her youki is so low, like clare, but why her hair is colored, like Luciella. This would also explain why she is special as the MiB's said. Luciella is the most powerful person to have died in the series since Teresa so she would be a sample worth keeping. Then add Raphaela running around who is trained to link with Luciella's youki (which just happens to be in Clarice) and hey it all works together. Plus you get Raphaela to freak out at sensing her sister in another and then eventually linking with her while the memory of losing Luciella still haunts her. :D.
Not likely, but I do think Clarice being told she is special and having colored hair is relevant to the story. Others see her as a failure and if she were I see no reason why the MiB's would not have told her so. But they said she was special. I think there is something to that. They also look like they are trying to get rid of her...
Regarding the Clarice being 1/4 Yoma because of having Luciella in here...I highly doubt that the Org would want to do that...I mean preserving Luciella.
The reasons why Clare had Teresa in her was because
1.Clare volunteered
2.Teresa was the strongest Claymore of her time and most likely the strongest ever thus the Org wants to preserve Teresa power.
But Luciella isn't really anything special except that she is an Abbysal one...plus if Clarice was really part of Luciella...that would mean Clarice has an awakened one in her.
And as a side note, my own crazy theory: Clarice is also 1/4 from a fallen warrior like Clare but her source is Luciella. This is why her youki is so low, like clare, but why her hair is colored, like Luciella. This would also explain why she is special as the MiB's said. Luciella is the most powerful person to have died in the series since Teresa so she would be a sample worth keeping. Then add Raphaela running around who is trained to link with Luciella's youki (which just happens to be in Clarice) and hey it all works together. Plus you get Raphaela to freak out at sensing her sister in another and then eventually linking with her while the memory of losing Luciella still haunts her. :D.
Not likely, but I do think Clarice being told she is special and having colored hair is relevant to the story. Others see her as a failure and if she were I see no reason why the MiB's would not have told her so. But they said she was special. I think there is something to that. They also look like they are trying to get rid of her...
Hmm I always figured Failrice would be like Priscilla, suppressing everything, but in her case being a screw up, she went WAY overboard to the point not even her hair would lose its color. It kind of made sense to me since what she did in chapter 77 surprised both Agatha and Galatea, and she only did something correctly when Miata was in danger, in parallel to Priscilla who only uses her power when she is in danger as a defense mechanism( this is probably stretch).
I am starting to like the Luciella idea a lot more, since it will inevitably lead to an awkward moment between her and Raphaela.
tenken627
2008-05-30, 22:53
Tenken I'm somewhat confused. How did the other Claymores know that she was only 1/4 a Claymore. I had assumed that they just knew that she was very weak, which was obvious to anyone. The organisation makes failures sometimes. Several people have mentioned it. So why would they think that Clare was any different then a normal failure? Her hair even changed color she was just weak. That Clare was 1/4 Claymore seems to have been some secret. Thats what I got at least. And even if it wasn't, Clare would not mention it.
Oh, I don't know if any living Claymores know that Clare is only 1/4 yoma or that she has Clare in her.
The girl that bullied chibi Clare during training knew about it though, which was one of the reasons why she started bullying Clare (she probably was a little jealous).
I'm not sure if many of the other trainees in Clare's class knew, but the bully girl wasn't very secretive about it. All the other trainees died in the final test except the bully girl, who probably became a Claymore since she lived.
Either way, the bully girl is most likely dead by now. The only survivors from Clare's time seem to be the Ghost 7 and Galatea (and Raphaela). I don't think any of Clare's friends or any of the other newer Claymores know about Clare's secret.
Hehe, I love you tenken, but I am going to have to disagree about Irene not knowing Teresa well. Unlike everyone else involved in the hunt Irene knew Teresa inside and out (besides her hidden powers), had apparently underestimated her before, knew her personality, knew she had changed, knew how her ability worked and so on. She even planned an Ambush specially to get Teresa. Teresa knew Irene, talked with her, mentioned that her attack was better than before, and so on. Teresa did not talk to Noel and Sophia indicating she did not know or care about them. Irene never indicates that she wants to kill Teresa or that she deserves it. That is what Priscilla does. Teresa talks with Priscilla to give an FAQ on the organizations motivations.
I do not think Irene ever saw Teresa as a rival. Irene is not competitive like that. She observes and makes cool headed decisions. When she sensed Priscilla she immediately recognized her power and accepted her as a higher number. The one different thing I see is when she saw Teresa with Clare and even felt some jealousy as Teresa had obtained something Irene obviously wanted but never had. Irene knew Teresa's personality and understood why Clare had made such a difference.
Ya, I agree.
I meant that the only two people that truly knew Teresa is Clare and Irene. Irene seemed to know Teresa well, and Teresa seemed to know Irene well (even though they were rivals).
The reason why Irene decided to help out Clare is because she wanted Teresa to live on through Clare.
Clare living is the only way there will be proof that Teresa ever existed.
That probably means that Irene knew that she was going to die soon (due to using Quicksword and being found), but she was fine with it. She would teach Clare everything she knew and even give up her only arm in order for Clare to live, and with Clare, Teresa's memory.
It was a touching scene, and that's why I like to think Irene as no longer alive. She sacrificed her life for Teresa's memory.
chibamonster
2008-05-30, 23:13
Hehe, I said the Clarice/Luciella theory was far out there. Just from what I have seen I do not think having an AB as a source is an impossible issue for a claymore. I mean every single claymore has youma in them and youma eat guts while claymores do not. That is kind of the focus of the story. Half human half youma... Why not half human half AB? AB's eat guts too. If they can throw a Claymore into a new claymore I think throwing an AB in there would be fine as well.
I think the organization did get something they wanted out of Clare's experiment. Rubel knew it too. Their goal was to preserve some of the power of an abnormally strong claymore. Clare ended up mysteriously with the exact same ability that Teresa had for youki sensing. It is not like she could have learned it as a human. Rubel was also Raphaela's handler and would have informed Raph when to go for Luciella. Giving her information was part of his deal with her. That would also mean he knew tentatively where Luciella's final resting place would be. Rubel, who knew Clare was not a failure, and probably had access to the Luciella strongest creature to die since Teresa could probably do something about it. He was the one who brought Clare into the org in the first place. Luciella even died relatively uninjured in human form making it easier to bring. She is the first Abyssal to die (Rosemary does not count). With such a rare sample why not use it? Well, if she is dead that is. Obviously the theory starts with her being dead.
Of course it is just a way out there theory. I think it would tie together a lot of issues. Like why Clarice is a new main character, why she is weak, why her hair is colored, why she has some strength in her as seen against Agatha, why she was told she was special, and it would give a reason for Raphaela to reappear from the shadows.
@Tenken: Ahh, I misunderstood. I agree with you about Irene, Clare and Teresa's relationship when put in that light. Irene's part in the story was very moving and beautiful.
I'm not expecting Irene to come back but if she did I'd be happy. I think its more likely than Luciela at least. Maybe she runs really fast. Or knows Taekwondo :p
I'm not really expecting to see any old characters show up in this chapter yet...
Ancient Soul
2008-05-30, 23:26
I think that Luciela is dead for good.She fought for her lands and lost.Riful didn't say anything about her to Clare when they meet.In fact she said that are still 3 of them, Alicia taking Luciela's place in the AO power strugle.Rafaela left The ORG so the info for missions deal with them is off.A chance is that Rafaela killed Luciela and at the same time merge her
soul with her (i don't know what effects could have this to Rafaela).So Luciela's soul can be alive within Rafaela.
About Clarice.
Yes i also think that is a chance that she has part of Luciela within her.
That speed jump attack when she saved Miata was really amazing...for a nr. 47.
I'm still think that Miata & Clarice share something.The fact that Miata smell "mama" in
Clarice...well...maybe Miata is in fact Luciela's daughter or at least the MiBs created a freak
experiment in wich a claymore girl (Miata) was born, rather than the normal claymorisation process and the flesh&blood of Miata's true mother who died were used on Clarice.
About Irene.
Irene can be still alive.Her life was not in Rafaela's hands but more likely in Rubel ones.
If Rubel has long terms plans wich involve renegades claymores Irene had a chance.If not she is dead.
I like elfs.So i hope Irene is alive.If not hope that the new eye (Lune) is an elf to take her place. Every era has his elf.(Irene\Ophelia\???).
Panzerklein
2008-05-31, 00:26
google is your friend.
LMAO - Laughing My ...er...backside... Off
sometimes extended to:
ROTFLMAO - Rolling On The Floor, LMAO
You mean "backdoor", since the mouth is "maindoor" :heh:
Fake spoiler from tsstory.com XD
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj161/jonovax/0504_rp_edited_fin_ws_o_s.png
Great, but it is so wrong, everyone on the world know how "good" of almost stuff made in China :(. I guess made in Japan or German is the correct :rolleyes:.
Even if I hate to admit it since I really like Irene in this story. She is dead. Her story came to a close in a very good, if not sad way. It would ruin her exit if her character was brought back. (unless of course, Yagi works his magic and brings her back in a good way.)
Luciela is also dead, she no longer serves a purpose to the story. I personally feel her remains being used for Clarice is very probable. It fits perfectly. the coincidences between Clare and Clarice are just too apparent for her to not share the 1/4 youma part.
As for Raphaela. She is most certainly alive. She has much to offer to the story line. she is the oldest living Claymore in existence and the fact she was trained in soul linking and being the sister of a former AO can still be used to push the story forward.
We never get any kind of visual hints that Raphaela was hurt unlike the other two. Riful and Isley never mention her so it is unlikely that either one of them killed her in the aftermath of the Luciela vs Isley fight. I doubt she committed suicide.
tenken627
2008-05-31, 00:33
I still think that there is a greater chance of Luciela's soul or mind entering Raphaela's body than Clarice having Luciela's flesh in her body.
If Luciela still has a part to play, the best way to do it would be for her to enter into Raphaela's body through the soul-link. We know that Alicia's human consciousness enters into Beth during Awakening, it is possible that Luciela and Raphaela have been trained the exact same way.
Since Luciela + Raphaela's training was essentially the same as Alicia + Beth's training, Luciela was trained to have her human consciousness enter Raphaela. It could be possible that Luciela might have done so with or without Raphaela's knowledge right before Raphaela killed her.
We never visually see Luciela's death. We just hear a crack, and the assumption is that the noise is coming from Luciela's back. If Luciela could have transfered her soul into Raphaela's body right before Raphaela kills Luciela's body, it could open up many doors of possibilities.
It could be the reason why Raphaela was never seen again. It might provide another power player into the story, with a powerful Raphaela/Luciela hybrid (Awakened or non-Awakened).
chibamonster
2008-05-31, 01:05
If Raphaela did pull Luciella back I think it would be an entirely new technique. The twins training has left it so they have no original personality. That is the sacrifice that was made to get a perfect and complete soul link. Raphaela dragging a second personality into her own and holding it seems very different than both of them merging into one being. As we know the soul link is very very hard, even for Beth and that is when they have merged their spirits and lost their personality with both parties working together to achieve the link. Raphaela and Luciella seemed to have their own personality, but that is just what I think. If Raphaela were to pull something like that off, which was not an unawakening but a soul-steal (think Shang Tsung from Mortal Kombat) it could really change the story. Then it would probably be even longer before she showed up because the story would have to build up to a massive technique like that. If she did pull it off then it might be like Clare's relationship with Teresa; just having her appear in dreams or something and then spontaneous techniques and incredible power showing up.
Then we would have Raphaela with her sister in her and Clare with Teresa in her. Although then Clare could say, "But I have many souls inside of me" and then Raphaeluciella would say, "and we thought we were odd..." That would be really strange and a very bizarre twist to the story. Soul linking is hard from what we have seen so I think Raphaela coming up with a technique like that is a stretch. Even Rubel told Raphaela that suppressing her youki was useless because it was too late to bring Luciella back. I think Rubel had Raphaela's plan to kill her sister nailed down. He is not easily deceived. But we do not know yet.
And anyway I look at it I think Luciella had a death scene where the life was squeezed out of her by her sister :D. The screaming, the sound effects, the begging, her losing all power (which is something else for an Abyssal) and Raphaela's parting words gave me that impression. It could be a new technique though. Certainly not a very pleasant one to say the least.
tenken627
2008-05-31, 01:24
Haha, but we only know that soul-linking AND Awakening needs to have no personality left in either sisters. Raphaela and Luciela never successfully performed that move. But, they may have soul-linked many times while training for it before the disaster. Who knows what may happen when the soul in a soul-link no longer has a body to return to after transferring?
I don't know if we want to get into the soul-link discussion all over again. I don't even know how many pages we've spent talking about that.
I don't necessarily think it would be Luciela appearing in Raphaela's dreams or anything, but something like eventually driving Raphaela mad and taking over her body, like the Lich King within Prince Arthas in Warcraft.
There wouldn't have to be a massive buildup, Just have Raphaela appear before Riful or Isley, smack the heebee jeebies out of them a little bit, and then announce that Luciela has returned (with the appropriate laugh of course).
I know, I know, this pretty much is my own wishful thinking. But, that would be so cool.
Sordes Pilosus
2008-05-31, 01:27
Its to unrealistic Tenken, but the bit about Lucelia might be perserved in Clarice isent unbelivable. If you lookat my recent post in Speculation topic it should give enough grounds to state that the Org has done a second "Clare - Theresa" Experiment.
tenken627
2008-05-31, 01:29
Its to unrealistic Tenken, but the bit about Lucelia might be perserved in Clarice isent unbelivable. If you lookat my recent post in Speculation topic it should give enough grounds to state that the Org has done a second "Clare - Theresa" Experiment.
Oh, I'm a firm believer in the Clarice 1/4 yoma theory. I don't see Luciela as the donor though.
Plus, it's one thing to use a Claymore like Teresa in an experiment, it's another thing to use an Awakened Being, let alone an Abyssal One, in the same kind of experiment.
And, while Clarice may have been different before the hybridization process, she doesn't seem like the type I would want to experiment an AO flesh with.
(...)
Clarice is also 1/4 from a fallen warrior like Clare but her source is Luciella. This is why her youki is so low, like clare, but why her hair is colored, like Luciella. This would also explain why she is special as the MiB's said. Luciella is the most powerful person to have died in the series since Teresa so she would be a sample worth keeping. Then add Raphaela running around who is trained to link with Luciella's youki (which just happens to be in Clarice) and hey it all works together. Plus you get Raphaela to freak out at sensing her sister in another and then eventually linking with her while the memory of losing Luciella still haunts her.
Good theory with convincing arguments, however I think it's less likely than Cyclone's "Luciella is alive and well" idea. I can't believe Raphaela would tolerate violation of her sister's body after she finally allowed to rest her in peace. Her resolve was to save Luciella and she made it (one way or another), why prolong painful memories? Why would she let MiB do what they want and destroy life of another person? Why would she allow her sister's body to be a sample for experiment?
If my assumption is correct and Raphaela wouldn't want that then MiB would have quite a problem with finding the body. Sure she released a bit of youki BUT near her were 3 extremely powerful AB so Lune would have to be an extremely skilled eye to disregard more intense sources of youki and distinguish Raphaela among such powerful beings. And if she just dig a grave and masked it so no one besides her would know where her sister's body is then scavenging every square meter where Raphaela was by MiB would be unlikely. Also I don't think they would risk them being killed by Riful/Isley and search for Luciella's body just to make another quarter-youma claymore. More hassle than it was worth.
My stupid guess - Clarice is 1/8 youma with Teresa's youki and Clare's hand as a source (the one Ophelia cut off). Now that would be quite a surprise after suppressant pill wore off. It could make possible soul-link between Clare and Clarice with Clarice being the one with remote control. The ones who would teach them this technique would be Raphaella and Luciella who would save them from Alicia and Beth ;). Such experiment would be a next step in their researches to know how youma-concentration influences one's abilities. They could measure what's Clarice's base youki compared to Clare's and Teresa's and if possible come up with recycling program.
As for our elf-claymore being alive. We have Irene standing at the edge of the cliff before one of the most powerful claymore in history, who is seconds away from dealing fatal blow and doesn't even want to talk with someone who's about to die plus a strange reaction of upper limb. All that indicates she's dead. Besides
I can't think of a reason why would Yagi let her stay alive. Just because Clare wanted to give her hand back?
I'm only uncertain whether Raphaela considered handicapped Irene, living in solitude as no threat to the org and let her live or let her jump off the cliff and didn't pursue her (Lune would thinks she was dead as Irene's arm told us). By being unconscious claymore's youki is lowering (since Miria assumed that even after taking half youki suppressant pills they would be "invisible" after being unconcious) and maybe that would suffice...
Edit:
And anyway I look at it I think Luciella had a death scene where the life was squeezed out of her by her sister .
Not necessarily. Maybe she didn't like the idea she would have her ecstatic feeling taken away (by going back to claymore form and losing Abyssal mode) and was afraid she wouldn't have heart to abandon her sister again by awakening. Who knows, maybe soul link on someone who already awakened and reversing process of awakening has reverse symptoms as well. If when awakening claymores feel great and rapturous then when reversing back (especially if it's against their will - Jean's case was different because she herself tried to maintain her personality) they must feel indescribable pain.
if galatea dies im gonna kick someone in the face
chibamonster
2008-05-31, 03:17
@Gooral: Lol. I wrote it this way intentionally :D "And anyway I look at it I think Luciella had a death scene where the life was squeezed out of her by her sister ." You can't argue with what I see. It is what I see. I know people disagree about what it means though. That is why I put it that way :D. We can tack on all the maybe's in the world, but until she shows up again she looked like she died. Just like Irene. If anyone had asked if she died at the Teresa arc I would have said yes.
If Raphaela did a technique to save her sister in some new way it would have to be very different from a soul link. Both Alicia AND Beth trained like crazy to get the soul link to work. Beth has the harder job. But they are both trained to do it together. They Both merge their souls and and it seems become one soul. And that might be all the time. With Luciella struggling against her it would be a totally different situation. Raphaela would be forcing her to unawaken against her will, dragging her back kicking and screaming, doing a job that is harder, squeezing her hard enough to cry and so on. It would have to be a very different technique than a soul link.
I am not sure where I said Raphaela gave her permission for them to take Luciella's body (in this crazy theory). If anything I would think she would NOT know about it. Rubel could have brought it back himself. The MiB's cannot be sensed with youki anyway. He could have watched the whole thing and taken some Polaroids. Raphaela probably does not know Clare is half Teresa. She may not know it is possible to use her sister's body. Or Rubel could have said, "If you let us take the body we will never make this mistake again, AB's will cease to exist and I will let you live. If you disagree we can always find you with the twins and this new little girl who smells out cloaked claymores..." I can see the backstory working just fine if Yagi decides to go that way. I mean Luciella is the most powerful creature to have ever died (bar Teresa) in this experiment. Why would they not take her?
My biggest problem with Clarice being made from Teresa like Clare is the physical difference between her and Clare. Clare has silver hair. Clarice has colored hair. If they used Teresa again I would imagine she would have silver hair. There must be a reason for Clarice having colored hair or it would not have been mentioned so many times. Maybe she is a failure, but maybe not. If she is not a failure and is special like she believes what makes her so? Also, as mentioned from Galatea's discovery about Alicia and Beth, using the same source material for 2 claymores results in a horrible consequence: almost none of their original personality remains. That was the consequence of using the same source material twice and Galatea realized it and it made her sick. That was when she left the organization. Clarice does not seem to suffer from a lack of personality to me. Rubel admitted that was the result of using the same source twice. It might be different for a claymore or AB source, but that would be completely new information.
Clare brought Teresa's head to Rubel and unless Teresa had another head or they used another part of her body Teresa only had 1 of those. If they did use something else then it would probably be something from her torso, like the "critical spot" which was mentioned many times in the early series. If that is the case it seems there would only be one of those. I am leaning towards the critical spot because it seems important for some reason or Yagi would not have mentioned it so many times.
#How long until spoilers...#
@chibamonster
I know that's Your opinion. I just wrote sth You didn't think about. I can do that, can't I :D ? I should have written: I for one have thought about a possibility that "the screaming, the sound effects, the begging, her losing all power" didn't mean death. Instead I've written "Not necessarily " but that's just because I'm being lazy and copied/pasted my previous reply to the same words You made some time ago (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1256267#post1256267). And I didn't refer to "I think" part, but to the idea itself. Words "anyway I look at it I think" and semantics won't stop me from disagreeing with You :P.
(...) I am not sure where I said Raphaela gave her permission for them to take Luciella's body (in this crazy theory). (...)
You didn't, but You've written that MiB took Luciella's body, meaning she left it just like that or made a grave with a tombstone so MiB could easily find it. That's the same to me as allowing someone to profanate the grave which wasn't even looked after. I just don't think she would bury her sister in some random place after not seeing her for such a long time.
Besides, MiB couldn't locate Raphaela before they could sense Luciella so they needed some time to get where she was not to mention a good spot to watch (Raphaela reserved one such spot herself). I'm not sure either whether Luciella emitted any youki after the fight and in the woods it would be difficult to track them. After Raphaella emitted youki they could locate them but they would have to possess youki reading abilities or a claymore. If they had a claymore with them Raphaela would sense it/him/her, if it was Lune and she was at a long distance then I doubt she could pinpoint the place where Raphaela and Luciella were and even if, they would need time to get there and that would allow Raphaella to hide the body or take it with her. And MiB carrying the body themselves I find rather unlikely, unless it was only part of her.
Imagine Rubel carrying naked girl and going through some villages before he got to HQ or meeting some village folks (priests particularly) :).
Oh, and I know that Raphaela doesn't know her sister's body could be used by Mib, but there are gravediggers/bandits/necrophiles, wildanimals.
MalakTawus
2008-05-31, 04:45
I think it's impossible that Clarice has Teresa's blood and flash,'cause passed too many years since Teresa's death......and Claire would have known as soon as she saw her,maybe even Galatea would have found her yoki strangely similar to Claire's.Imo it's really impossible.....
chibamonster
2008-05-31, 05:08
@Gooral: Yeah, I remember that we have had this conversation before. I also remember when people were quoting Cyclone on the Luciella-return theory before he manifested himself on the forum :D. Didn't mean to offend you. My theory is far out there as it is. I just think it fits the picture for the time being. If retrieving Luciella's body is the biggest obstacle for this Clarice-iella theory I am actually pretty amazed.
Rubel did coordinate the meeting between Raphaela and Luciella if he held true on his promise. That is the main thing that brings him into the picture in my mind. He knew once Priscilla had awakened the Abyssals would have to move and some might die. Possibly Luciella. He brought this information to Raphaela in exchange for her services and she joined up knowing what he had on the table. Rubel also coordinated Clare getting Teresa infused into her it seems despite him not being Teresa's handler. He knows Clare's potential and understands much more than he lets on. I think with his negotiating skills, intuition, information, and understanding of claymores personalities he could have gotten Luciella's body if he wanted it. He could have brought Luciella's sword with him as a gift for Raphaela.
Really I do not know Raphaela's personality well enough to know what she would do with her sisters body. We have the sister issue combined with traditional Claymore burials. Luciella was not just a friend but a sister who soul linked with Raphaela and who loved and missed her even as an AO it seems. Raphaela might have wanted to bury Luciella close to where they came from originally with her mother and father. That would be a moving scene; Raphaela holding back tears as she carries her deceased completely human looking sister into her old town that may have thrown her out after their family was killed by youma or ... something. Just what popped into my head.
If the organization promised Raphaela that looking at Luciella's body would save other sisters from the same fate Raphaela might let them have it. We just have no idea what happened as we have not seen Raphaela since then. Maybe Raphaela used her own sword as Luciella's grave. I really do not know what she did or what she thought the organization would do if they got her body. Raphaela obviously never returned so maybe her goals have changed since her meeting with her sister. I am excited to see her regardless.
@MalakTawus: I also think that if Clarice had Teresa in her the 5 ghosts present when she came to the north would have felt something simmilar between her and Clare especially with how good some of them are at youki sensing. Sure they had not sensed each others youki in years but the same was true for Irene and once she sensed the little bit of Teresa in Clare she came running through the woods to meet her. Miata also released her youki somehow in Rabona so that would have sent some flags up as well. Especially with Clare herself being there. On the other hand none of them have sensed Luciella or Raphaela before... :p
I think it's impossible that Clarice has Teresa's blood and flash,'cause passed too many years since Teresa's death......and Claire would have known as soon as she saw her,maybe even Galatea would have found her yoki strangely similar to Claire's.Imo it's really impossible.....
Makes me think, what ever happened to Teresa's body. As far as I know young Clare
only took the head and not the body.:eyebrow:
to kill the waiting boredom:(
ラボナ大聖堂の秘密の地下室で会議中のミリアーズ
ヘレン「しっかしよ～たまげたぜ…いきなりあんな話をされちゃあ」
ミリア「そうだな、いきなりこんな話を聞いて動揺しているだろう
…すまない」頭を下げる
ヘレン「あ？え？いや、そんな責めるつもりじゃないんだってば」焦って弁解する
ミリア「だが私自身今まで確たる証拠を掴めていなかったんでな、敢えて話さずにいた」
ガラテア「しかし、今こうして全てを話したということはなにか証拠を手に入れた、ということか な？」
ミリア頷きながら「ああ、正確には、証拠を手に入れることができるようになった、と言うべきか 」
ヘレン「なんだよ、もったいぶらずに教えておくれよ」
シド「そうだぜ、焦らしたってしょうがないだろ？」
クレア「シド！…ガークまで」
シド「よっ！」ガーク「久しいな」
クレア「これは私たちの問題だ聞いたら戻れなくなるぞ？」
ガーク「いや、俺たちも当事者なんでな」
クレア「？どういうことだ？」
ミリア「…」
ガラテア「成程な、おの聖都でシスターとして過ごしていた時から違和感は感じていたが…やはり 」
ミリア「そうだ、組織の歴史と秘密…その証拠がこの聖都にある
更に言えば…この聖都の存在自体が組織の秘密を暴く重要なカギなんだ」
場面変わって大聖堂の塔の一室
クラリス「はあ…私たちこれからどうなるんだろう…
会議には参加させてもらえなかったし」
ミアータ「ママ…おっぱい…」
クアッリス「はあ…考えててもしょうがないか、会議が終わるのを待って…」
ラド「首尾はどうだ？」
クラリス＆ミアータ「！？」
クラリス（ミアータが接近に気付けなかったなんて…やっぱりこの人たちは？）
ラド「どうした？お前たちの任務はガラテア討伐のはず…奴の首はどこにある？」
クラリス「あ…あなたたちは…」
ラド「…」
クラリス「あなたたちは一体何なの！？私たちをこんな体にして！命がけの戦いをさせて！
こんな小さな子供にまで！…今までは私たちが妖魔を倒さなきゃ一般人が苦しむ…
そう教えられてたから頑張っていた！耐えてきた…でもそれが全部ウソだったなんて…」言葉を吐き散 らした後泣きだす
ラド「誰に吹きこまれたか知らんが…余計なことを…」
ミアータがラドに斬りかかるが、机を破壊しただけでラドはその場にもういなかった
また場面が変わってミリアーズ
ガラテア「つまり、この大聖堂に隠されている組織の秘密…それを暴露されることを恐れ
組織は聖都に手を出せなかった…」
クレア「しかし、その秘密を暴露してしまえば聖都もまた滅ぼされてしまう…」
ミリア「ああ、だからまず組織を潰し、その後妖魔を討伐しつつ、人々に真実を伝えてゆく、とい うわけだ」
ヘレン「うひょー！なんだかワクワクしてきたぜ！あたしらがあの組織を潰して世界を変えるだな んてよ！」
デネヴ「浮かれるな…この道…そう容易くはいかんはずだ」
ミリアーズ全員が覚悟を決める
ガラテア「！！」
クレア「どうした？」
ガラテア「来る…おびただしい数の妖気が…」
場面変わってクラリス＆ミアータ
ミアータが塔の窓から外を眺めている
遥か彼方から鎧兜で武装した大量の妖魔が進軍してきて終わり
アオリ：大地を埋め尽くす脅威！！
Where do those come from? Some of them just sound like fan fic/speculation.
Quick glance...
the 7, sid and gark in an underground secret meeting room...talking about the holy city...mira says "just the existence of this holy city has an important key to the secrets of the Org.
scene change, clarice and miata being debriefed by "Rado". he repeatedly ask for galateas head...clarice starts shouting, demanding answers, asking what they are and why they are so cruel...she starts crying...when he brushes it off, she attacks him, but he disappears...
back to the seven:
galatea: "due to the secret that the holy city possessed, the Org. left them alone."
clare: "if we reveal that secret, the city will be destroyed"
miria: "therefore, we must destroy the org, supress the yoma, and tell the truth to everyone"
helen: "whoopee! sounds fun"
deneve: "don't get carried away...this path...will not be so easy"
galatea: "!!!"
clare: "what is it?"
galatea: "I'm sensing a countless numbers of auras..."
miata gazes through a window. a host of yoma in helms and armor are mustered.
Aori: "A menace that blots out the ground itself!"
Negativedark
2008-05-31, 08:44
Well at least even a fake spoiler is something. Otherwise we'll just end up with ten pages of Raphelea, Irene speculation.
Cmon, Cid, hit on Helen!
Sleepy Speculator
2008-05-31, 08:52
i'm not responsible for most of that speculation i'd like to add, all i did was list the names of people that haven't seen for a while.
Unless Miria hogs another whole chapter in a vain attempt to become the protaginist, the emphasis has gotta shift to something/someone else this chapter.
Where do those come from? Some of them just sound like fan fic/speculation.
Quick glance...
the 7, sid and gark in an underground secret meeting room...talking about the holy city...mira says "just the existence of this holy city has an important key to the secrets of the Org.
scene change, clarice and miata being debriefed by "Rado". he repeatedly ask for galateas head...clarice starts shouting, demanding answers, asking what they are and why they are so cruel...she starts crying...when he brushes it off, she attacks him, but he disappears...
back to the seven:
galatea: "due to the secret that the holy city possessed, the Org. left them alone."
clare: "if we reveal that secret, the city will be destroyed"
miria: "therefore, we must destroy the org, supress the yoma, and tell the truth to everyone"
helen: "whoopee! sounds fun"
deneve: "don't get carried away...this path...will not be so easy"
galatea: "!!!"
clare: "what is it?"
galatea: "I'm sensing a countless numbers of auras..."
miata gazes through a window. a host of yoma in helms and armor are mustered.
Aori: "A menace that blots out the ground itself!"
Thank you Ergon.. You are super translator.
well so far it look's like I don't need my hospital bed for my 30 days in coma I can use it some other time. Enara happy
to kill the waiting boredom:(
ラボナ大聖堂の秘密の地下室で会議中のミリアーズ
ヘレン「しっかしよ～たまげたぜ…いきなりあんな話をされちゃあ」
ミリア「そうだな、いきなりこんな話を聞いて動揺しているだろう
…すまない」頭を下げる
ヘレン「あ？え？いや、そんな責めるつもりじゃないんだってば」焦って弁解する
ミリア「だが私自身今まで確たる証拠を掴めていなかったんでな、敢えて話さずにいた」
ガラテア「しかし、今こうして全てを話したということはなにか証拠を手に入れた、ということか な？」
ミリア頷きながら「ああ、正確には、証拠を手に入れることができるようになった、と言うべきか 」
ヘレン「なんだよ、もったいぶらずに教えておくれよ」
シド「そうだぜ、焦らしたってしょうがないだろ？」
クレア「シド！…ガークまで」
シド「よっ！」ガーク「久しいな」
クレア「これは私たちの問題だ聞いたら戻れなくなるぞ？」
ガーク「いや、俺たちも当事者なんでな」
クレア「？どういうことだ？」
ミリア「…」
ガラテア「成程な、おの聖都でシスターとして過ごしていた時から違和感は感じていたが…やはり 」
ミリア「そうだ、組織の歴史と秘密…その証拠がこの聖都にある
更に言えば…この聖都の存在自体が組織の秘密を暴く重要なカギなんだ」
場面変わって大聖堂の塔の一室
クラリス「はあ…私たちこれからどうなるんだろう…
会議には参加させてもらえなかったし」
ミアータ「ママ…おっぱい…」
クアッリス「はあ…考えててもしょうがないか、会議が終わるのを待って…」
ラド「首尾はどうだ？」
クラリス＆ミアータ「！？」
クラリス（ミアータが接近に気付けなかったなんて…やっぱりこの人たちは？）
ラド「どうした？お前たちの任務はガラテア討伐のはず…奴の首はどこにある？」
クラリス「あ…あなたたちは…」
ラド「…」
クラリス「あなたたちは一体何なの！？私たちをこんな体にして！命がけの戦いをさせて！
こんな小さな子供にまで！…今までは私たちが妖魔を倒さなきゃ一般人が苦しむ…
そう教えられてたから頑張っていた！耐えてきた…でもそれが全部ウソだったなんて…」言葉を吐き散 らした後泣きだす
ラド「誰に吹きこまれたか知らんが…余計なことを…」
ミアータがラドに斬りかかるが、机を破壊しただけでラドはその場にもういなかった
また場面が変わってミリアーズ
ガラテア「つまり、この大聖堂に隠されている組織の秘密…それを暴露されることを恐れ
組織は聖都に手を出せなかった…」
クレア「しかし、その秘密を暴露してしまえば聖都もまた滅ぼされてしまう…」
ミリア「ああ、だからまず組織を潰し、その後妖魔を討伐しつつ、人々に真実を伝えてゆく、とい うわけだ」
ヘレン「うひょー！なんだかワクワクしてきたぜ！あたしらがあの組織を潰して世界を変えるだな んてよ！」
デネヴ「浮かれるな…この道…そう容易くはいかんはずだ」
ミリアーズ全員が覚悟を決める
ガラテア「！！」
クレア「どうした？」
ガラテア「来る…おびただしい数の妖気が…」
場面変わってクラリス＆ミアータ
ミアータが塔の窓から外を眺めている
遥か彼方から鎧兜で武装した大量の妖魔が進軍してきて終わり
アオリ：大地を埋め尽くす脅威！！
Thanks for post this, the Spoiler actually came out more than half an month ago.....XD
----------------------
Spoiler From 2ch Sq thread which was posted at "2008/05/30(金) 22:19:55"
クレイモア
惊くヘレン达
ミリア 「正确には半妖の戦士 つまり私达の様な戦士を作るための実験场だがな」
覚醒者はコントロールできずに失败したと予想するミリア
スタフ
黒服がリムト？と话している
「かつての№２ 鲜血のアガサと思われる妖気が消灭しました」
「ミアータがやったのか？」
「ルネは ミアータもガラテアも濒死だったと言っていました
ですが他に存在は无く まるで幽霊にでもやられたかの様だと・・・」
ルヴル登场
「幻影のミリア达が生きていたと考えるのが妥当でしょうな」
干部 「生きていたとしてもアリシアの敌ではあるまい」
ルヴル ｢甘く见すぎると足をすくわれる事になるのでは？」
リムト？ 「どの道 我々の积年の悲愿である 本国の夺回の障害になるならば
粛清するしかあるまい」
ルヴル 「奴らが复讐を企てているのなら ほっておいても向こうからやってくるだろう
后は あの双子に任せればいい」
最后にクレアも生きているのかと、ふと考えるルヴル
クレアサイド
ミリア 「私达と一绪に来るか？」
クラリス 「组织を溃すなんて・・・」
ラテア 「せいぜい 足手まといにならないように顽张るとするか」
また来てくれとラテアに言い残す神父
クラリス・ミアータは同行せず
次号
another Spoiler also From 2ch SQ thread which was posted at "2008/06/01(日) 01:05:59"
次回バレ
解説の続き
一同ミリアを信じ、組織討伐を決意
ミアクラも渋々同行することに
シド、ガークと再会の挨拶、事情を説明
妖気が完全に消えるまでかくまってくれることに
場面変わって、組織本部
ガラテアが聖都ラボナに潜伏していいることが判明し、しかも妖気が漏れたので
アリシア、ベス、ルネの三人を討伐に向かわせることに
ついでに七年前の亡霊（ミリアーズ）も始末する算段らしい
クラリスとミアータをどうするのかとルヴルが尋ねると
最初からそんな戦士など存在しなかった、とリムトが言い放つ
会議終了後、ルヴルが少し歩き、開けた場所に出る
その広場には既に覚醒体となったアリシアと、その腹部に融合したベスの、禍々しい姿があった
その姿を見てルヴルが「プリシラと戦える唯一の生物か」と呟いて終了
<gene says>cuz as usual the JPs do not work on Sunday(June 1), so i guess the the July SQ might not show up on June 1st.</gene says>
Makes me think, what ever happened to Teresa's body. As far as I know young Clare
only took the head and not the body.:eyebrow:
I wonder what happened to Sophia's and Noel's bodies too. I think after Priscilla flew off and Clare ran off with Teresa's head, Irene ended up digging graves for them with only one arm. Wow that must have been hard. Now I think I know why Irene never regenerated her left arm, because by the time she was done digging there graves it all ready healed over.:heh:
Mabye Clare will run into that area where Teresa died eventually and have a horrible flashback once she see's Teresa's sword as a grave marker.
King Lycan
2008-05-31, 11:48
._. OMG sweet Noel lol i know she was seen for an short time but i do miss Noel and Sophia fighting for who is third and forth
I wonder what happened to Sophia's and Noel's bodies too. I think after Priscilla flew off and Clare ran off with Teresa's head, Irene ended up digging graves for them with only one arm. Wow that must have been hard. Now I think I know why Irene never regenerated her left arm, because by the time she was done digging there graves it all ready healed over.:heh:
Mabye Clare will run into that area where Teresa died eventually and have a horrible flashback once she see's Teresa's sword as a grave marker.
That could be possible @Hell.:)
King Lycan
2008-05-31, 15:38
I have a question for everyone...
Would You Join Riful's army
Cause i would because thats the only way there going to defeat the Org and defeat priscilla
I would simply because I think Riful is an awesome character. I just hope she wouldn't make me awaken XD
King Lycan
2008-05-31, 15:52
what's wrong with awakening....just because they eat humans......there apart of the food chain :p
I have a question for everyone...
Would You Join Riful's army
Cause i would because thats the only way there going to defeat the Org and defeat priscilla
I think I would rather join Easley he has so much more power than Riful.
but you'll be stuck with Raki if you Join Isley...that might be worse than torture.
but you'll be stuck with Raki if you Join Isley...that might be worse than torture.
Okay mabye your right, I think I would join Riful..... BUT WAIT! Riful has Dauf. Probably the dumbest character in claymore. Why would anyone want to join him? That could be worse than Raki and torture combined!:heh:
hmm I guess you are right...we're screwed either way.
MalakTawus
2008-05-31, 18:55
I have a question for everyone...
Would You Join Riful's army
Cause i would because thats the only way there going to defeat the Org and defeat priscilla
It's not the only way,Claire will fight Priscilla one on one.....but i have to admit that i'd love to see Claire and Riful allied!!!!Btw,i think Riful is probably stronger(or has the same strenght) than Isley.It was no coincidence that Isley fought Luciela instead of Riful.....
I can't wait for 80. I wonder if they are going to be after the organization in this issue, the story seems to have shifted away from Clare's quest for vengeance. Anyway, only a few more days. Hopefully the issue will answer more questions.
yezhanquan
2008-05-31, 19:09
It's not the only way,Claire will fight Priscilla one on one.....but i have to admit that i'd love to see Claire and Riful allied!!!!Btw,i think Riful is probably stronger(or has the same strenght) than Isley.It was no coincidence that Isley fought Luciela instead of Riful.....
I'll say that the main reason was that Luci was alone. Don't forget: Riful had Dauf with her. Isley isn't good enough to take on both of them at the same time.
Awakened
2008-05-31, 19:33
It's not the only way,Claire will fight Priscilla one on one.....but i have to admit that i'd love to see Claire and Riful allied!!!!Btw,i think Riful is probably stronger(or has the same strenght) than Isley.It was no coincidence that Isley fought Luciela instead of Riful.....
Priscilla also wanted to go south and see her parents. Luciela was in control of the south.
another Spoiler also From 2ch SQ thread which was posted at "2008/06/01(日) 01:05:59"
次回バレ
解説の続き
一同ミリアを信じ、組織討伐を決意
ミアクラも渋々同行することに
シド、ガークと再会の挨拶、事情を説明
妖気が完全に消えるまでかくまってくれることに
場面変わって、組織本部
ガラテアが聖都ラボナに潜伏していいることが判明し、しかも妖気が漏れたので
アリシア、ベス、ルネの三人を討伐に向かわせることに
ついでに七年前の亡霊（ミリアーズ）も始末する算段らしい
クラリスとミアータをどうするのかとルヴルが尋ねると
最初からそんな戦士など存在しなかった、とリムトが言い放つ
会議終了後、ルヴルが少し歩き、開けた場所に出る
その広場には既に覚醒体となったアリシアと、その腹部に融合したベスの、禍々しい姿があった
その姿を見てルヴルが「プリシラと戦える唯一の生物か」と呟いて終了
<gene says>cuz as usual the JPs do not work on Sunday(June 1), so i guess the the July SQ might not show up on June 1st.</gene says>
I think Jump comes out on the 5th every month. The first spoiler had non-japanese kanjis in it for some reason. the second was pretty good though...
spoiler for next chapter
Everyone believing Miria; the decision is made to put down the Org.
Miaata and Clarice reluctantly deciding to accompany them
Exchanging greetings with Sid & Gark, and then explaining the situation
They agree to wait until the yoki has dissapeared (don't know whos waiting for who)
scene change, org. HQ
the fact that Galatea is hiding in the holy city is established, and also her yoki was leaked, therefore Alicia, Beth, and Lune are dispatched to suppress her.
Dealing with the 7 ghosts seems to be planned as well.
Rubel asks what to do about Miaata and Clarice, and Rimuto declares “those two never existed.”
After the meeting ends, Rubel walks a short distance and goes out into a open space.
The ominous sight of Alica, already in her awakened form, with Beth fused to her at the abdomen is shown.
It ends with Rubel looking at their form and muttering “I see... The sole creature that can do battle against Priscilla”
I think Jump comes out on the 5th every month. The first spoiler had non-japanese kanjis in it for some reason. the second was pretty good though...
spoiler for next chapter
Everyone believing Miria; the decision is made to put down the Org.
Miaata and Clarice reluctantly deciding to accompany them
Exchanging greetings with Sid & Gark, and then explaining the situation
They agree to wait until the yoki has dissapeared (don't know whos waiting for who)
scene change, org. HQ
the fact that Galatea is hiding in the holy city is established, and also her yoki was leaked, therefore Alicia, Beth, and Lune are dispatched to suppress her.
Dealing with the 7 ghosts seems to be planned as well.
Rubel asks what to do about Miaata and Clarice, and Rimuto declares “those two never existed.”
After the meeting ends, Rubel walks a short distance and goes out into a open space.
The ominous sight of Alica, already in her awakened form, with Beth fused to her at the abdomen is shown.
It ends with Rubel looking at their form and muttering “I see... The sole creature that can do battle against Priscilla”
wow .. nice thank you..
yezhanquan
2008-05-31, 22:25
So, with this new creation, the Org hopes to defeat Priscilla. It just screams "one chapter pwnage".
I personally think this spoiler is largely accurate. Yagi-sensei wants to keep us in suspense for another month.
So they were Alicia and Beth. Then again, they may not be them.
Have to wait, just to be sure.:confused:
zato_1one
2008-05-31, 23:03
I think Jump comes out on the 5th every month. The first spoiler had non-japanese kanjis in it for some reason. the second was pretty good though...
spoiler for next chapter
Everyone believing Miria; the decision is made to put down the Org.
Miaata and Clarice reluctantly deciding to accompany them
Exchanging greetings with Sid & Gark, and then explaining the situation
They agree to wait until the yoki has dissapeared (don't know whos waiting for who)
scene change, org. HQ
the fact that Galatea is hiding in the holy city is established, and also her yoki was leaked, therefore Alicia, Beth, and Lune are dispatched to suppress her.
Dealing with the 7 ghosts seems to be planned as well.
Rubel asks what to do about Miaata and Clarice, and Rimuto declares “those two never existed.”
After the meeting ends, Rubel walks a short distance and goes out into a open space.
The ominous sight of Alica, already in her awakened form, with Beth fused to her at the abdomen is shown.
It ends with Rubel looking at their form and muttering “I see... The sole creature that can do battle against Priscilla”
Eh... Did he/she who post this spoiler visit Image Thread in AnimeSuki Forum? :twitch:
Thanks for the translation. :cool:
... fake ...
agree.
lets send numbers 1 and 2...plus number 7 just for kicks.
lets see how those 3 do against 8 high ranked Claymores plus 1 runt and the girl that has Teresa inside of her.:dots:
plus the 1 and 2 AB couldn't happen dew to the fact that Beth would be ABed too. And why would the org. have 1 and 2 go AB when they don't need to? so once again FAKE
And anyway I look at it I think Luciella had a death scene where the life was squeezed out of her by her sister :D. The screaming, the sound effects, the begging, her losing all power (which is something else for an Abyssal) and Raphaela's parting words gave me that impression. It could be a new technique though. Certainly not a very pleasant one to say the least.
And anyway I look it, I find the scene too strange to take at surface level. It may be moving this way, but flawed in every other concievable way. [funny how this theory made it to this forum before though]
- As much as I love to think that Raphaella's Death Hug technique is second in power only to the Yuma punch, the technique makes no sense. Raphaella is THE most experienced Claymore in the series. She knows that Youma are shape shifters. They attack by turning their fingers into blades and have all sorts of other dangerous similar close range attacks. Does an attack which disables the use of both your hands while holding on to a creature that can turn ANY part of her body into a lethal weapon make any sense to anyone? Especially when you consider you have a Claymore on your back?
- Would a broken back even kill Luciella? We've seen many much graver injuries happen in Claymore. Most closely related is, of course, Ophelia's broken neck - a lot of good that did to that awakened being...
- The youki release is odd. We have never seen anyone in Claymore use a youki filled kamehameha attack or anything close to it (and I hope we never do). So, Raphaela's first youki release in about 20 years is to boost the power in the Raphaela hug? That's absurd. There must be a reason for the youki release. It's not like Raphaela needed the youki release to have enough power to kill Luciella at the time. It was optional for her - and doing a release risks making her trackable by the organization - yet she choose to do it anyways. The only thing that makes sense to me is some kind of Soul Link derivative.
It's, of course, possible I'm reading too much into it though.
As for Clarice, I have said earlier that I think that Clarice's source material was from a Claymore who happened to be Miata's real "mama".
I don't think it's Luciella though (for one thing any kid of Luciella [she does strike me as outgoing type] would be older than Miata by now [in their late 20s, early 30s]). Because for Luciella to be the source material, Luciella would have to be killed by Raphaella in her awakened state. An awakened being though, according to Clare (which maybe unreliable considering how ignorant she is at the start of the story) "half youma eventually turn into full youma"(paraphrase).
If Luciella died as a full youma, then Clarice would not be the failure she is - she'd be Teresa the Second. If Luciella did not die as a full youma, then it's fair to assume Raphaella would never kill her.
if galatea dies im gonna kick someone in the face
Believe me - you wont be the only one.
clarakiss~
2008-06-01, 00:25
i don't understand why the org would send alicia, beth and lune just so they could get rid of galatea... why her? she not even that strong compared to number 1 and 2.
priscilla, isley and riful i can understand but galatea?
zato_1one
2008-06-01, 00:28
Because it's FAKE, man.
clarakiss~
2008-06-01, 00:32
fake? it is? ...man? o.o
yezhanquan
2008-06-01, 00:38
I don't know for sure. Can confirm if I see any Chinese subs.
fake? it is? ...man? o.o
I'd say it is most likely fake. The spolier from gene where Galatea joins force with north 7 and Clarice/Miata heading back to org is more believable imo. But still, it sounds too good to be true xD.
Believe me - you wont be the only one.
no offense intended...but you are a repeat offender... :p
http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/152/b/8/STOP_DOUBLE_POSTING_by_CappyTheFalcon.jpg
rofl. found it on Deviant art...took the opportunity to use it.
As for Clarice, I have said earlier that I think that Clarice's source material was from a Claymore who happened to be Miata's real "mama".
I don't think its even possible for a Claymore to have a child. even if they did use Miata's mother she'd be too old to turn into a hybrid...plus it would probably kill the child if they did it while she was still pregnant.
I don't think it's Luciella though (for one thing any kid of Luciella [she does strike me as outgoing type] would be older than Miata by now [in their late 20s, early 30s]). Because for Luciella to be the source material, Luciella would have to be killed by Raphaella in her awakened state. An awakened being though, according to Clare (which maybe unreliable considering how ignorant she is at the start of the story) "half youma eventually turn into full youma"(paraphrase).
If Luciella died as a full youma, then Clarice would not be the failure she is - she'd be Teresa the Second. If Luciella did not die as a full youma, then it's fair to assume Raphaella would never kill her.
Why does Luciella have to be in her awakened form? she's still an AO regardless of what shape she chooses to be in.
Teresa the second is exactly what they were hoping for when they stuck her in Clare. I see no reason why the results would be much different when/if they used Luciella in Clarice.
chibamonster
2008-06-01, 01:18
@Cyclone: I like the idea that Clarice is somehow related to Miata's experiment and her mother some how. It is just so creepy.
And as for the endless debate of "HUG YOU BACK TO HUMANITY SUPER ATTACK!" for Raphaela and Luciella I think it is probably the most interesting thing we have until we get some more information about the newest chapter. I like some of the questionable spoilers although Alicia grafted to Beth gives me the heebejeebies. Even if the back of the new cover with the double AB is pretty cool...
Part of the soul link for Raphaela's role required that she suppress her youki. She released it against Luciella in the hug as you mentioned. If she did pull her back she did it with a very different technique than the training for the soul link. Raphaela was trained to suppress her youki to some how hold her sisters spirit. With her own youki released the technique would be entirely different. No soul linking with both of them using youki. Although Luciella being depleted might have reversed the roles and Raphaela jumped into her soul... or something. If it was a technique I still think it would have to be entirely new.
I think a hug could definitely kill Luciella in the state she was in. No chance any other way. Without youki even Deneve can not regenerate. Deneve had to risk half awakening to dive into a deeper reservoir of youki. Luciella was pushed to the point that she had no youki and could not maintain her awakened form. There was no where to draw power from after her battle. She could no longer transform, use her tails, or even push Raphaela away. All she could do was beg and plead. She even mentioned she was very tired and that Raphaela was hurting her. Raphaela's appearance was calculated to match Luciella's state of absolute weakness. Isley was in a better state and Riful said he was near death as it was.
Luciella was borderline before Raphaela got to her. I mean she fell down in a river fearing that Isley would catch up and deliver the finishing blow. Any other way I do not think the hug could have gotten her. No chance. Too much power at play. But Raphaela got there when Luciella could not use any of her Abyssal Powers. It seems Claymores can drown like Clare against Ophelia or get crushed like Clare vs Duff, so having all their internal organs squished with no way to fix them might do the trick. We have certainly seen greater injuries in claymore but never anyone so completely depleted of their youki. If Raphaela waited long to do whatever she was going to do then Luciella would start regenerating just like Ophelia warned Clare about. So whatever Raphaela did her window of opportunity was not a long one.
Raphaela stabbing her sister would have left a very different image in the readers mind than her giving her a hug and appolgizing. Even though a clean quick death probably would have been much less painful...
@Vinak: Lol at the double post threat :D. Cyclone does love to post several times in a row. I agree that infusing Luciella into someone would probably have simmilar results as Clare; weak on the surface but with an insane depth of power that appears from time to time (maybe like when Clarice strutted her stuff against Agatha? Maybe not...) If anything the experiment would probably be weaker than Clare as Teresa was so impossibly strong it boggles the mind. Luciella, even as an abyssal, would probably be a weaker sample. But that is just me guessing. I do not think Luciella being in her human form would make a difference to the experiment. As you said, she is still an Abyssal in whatever form she is in.
no offense intended...but you are a repeat offender... :p
At least you're entertained. I'm tempted to double post again just to 'entertain' you again.
Seriously though - You're point?
Why should I combine 2 responces to 2 differenent individuals on 2 completely different topics into 1 post? It makes it harder to find the post, and harder to respond.
I don't think its even possible for a Claymore to have a child. even if they did use Miata's mother she'd be too old to turn into a hybrid...plus it would probably kill the child if they did it while she was still pregnant.
We have no way of knowing anything on this subject. I take it your thoughts on Miata calling Clarice 'mama' as being just crazy talk, then?
Why does Luciella have to be in her awakened form? she's still an AO regardless of what shape she chooses to be in.
Teresa the second is exactly what they were hoping for when they stuck her in Clare. I see no reason why the results would be much different when/if they used Luciella in Clarice.
You misunderstood me.
If Luciella is still an AB at the time of death, then she is a full 100% youma. Therefore, any Claymore made from her remains is a normal 1/2 human 1/2 youma but made of the flesh of an insanely powerful youma. Hence, you'd get Teresa the Second, not "Clarice: Failure of the worst kind".
You may remember that Teresa died as a Claymore - that's why Clare is only 1/4 youma. For the failure that is Clarice to be explained, Clarice would have to be less than 1/2 youma too.
If Luciella was pulled back - at least partly - into Claymore form (thus enabling Clarice to be a failure by being < 1/2 youma) then Raphaella would never kill her sister (and hence there would be no remains).
Well, we'll know if when Miata meets Raphaella, she'll start calling her "Auntie!"...
Raphaela stabbing her sister would have left a very different image in the readers mind than her giving her a hug and appolgizing. Even though a clean quick death probably would have been much less painful...
@Vinak: Lol at the double post threat :D. Cyclone does love to post several times in a row. I agree that infusing Luciella into someone would probably have simmilar results as Clare; weak on the surface but with an insane depth of power that appears from time to time (maybe like when Clarice strutted her stuff against Agatha? Maybe not...) If anything the experiment would probably be weaker than Clare as Teresa was so impossibly strong it boggles the mind. Luciella, even as an abyssal, would probably be a weaker sample. But that is just me guessing. I do not think Luciella being in her human form would make a difference to the experiment. As you said, she is still an Abyssal in whatever form she is in.
Makes it easier to double post when I reply to someone else and find your response was editted and doubled in length :)
Yes, it would have left a different impression - I for one wouldn't be convinced that somethin weird was going on. Why do you think Raphaella choose to do a youki release if Luciella was so close to death that anything would have finished her off? It's more dangerous for her to her own long term prospects and it accomplishes nothing.
yezhanquan
2008-06-01, 02:11
wtf miata has a mum?
Er well, Claymores are not like female dwarfs, that spawn from the ground.:heh:
chibamonster
2008-06-01, 02:12
@Cyclone: I think that even as an Abyssal with little strength left Luciella was still an Abyssal; one of the most powerful monsters to ever have been created. Just like Miria saying to Clare, "even in this state, I am still a single digit." Killing an Abyssal is not easy even if she is depleted and has little of her full defense available. Had Raphalea not restrained her then maybe she would have fought back and it would have been a fight. Although looking at it again it seems that is not quite her original intention.
It seemed like Raphaela originally intended to use her sword on Luciella as she had it ready and in hand. Whatever her original intention was, it involved a sword not a hug. There is even a panel of Raphaela squeezing her hilt as if to show us her resolve. Luciella cries when she sees her little sister behind her and throws her arms opened and tells her how much she missed her. Raphaela looks surprised. She then drops her sword and runs to her sister whom she has not spoken with since she failed her years and years ago. It seems to be a beautiful reunion until Raphaela hears Luciella start spouting off about how they must kill Isley together. It seems like a painful reminder for Raphaela that her sister is truly gone and it is her fault. She then adjusts her grip on her sisters back which starts to hurt Luciella. Raphaela then apologizes again before releasing her youki. Then the squeeze really begins and Luciella screams until she is silenced.
Raphaela was not the one who invited the hug. That was Luciella. Raphaela came wielding her sword ready to fight. She came as a threat, but then dropped it almost in a moment of weakness when her sister called her name. If anything using her youki to end it quickly was the most humane thing she could do in her situation. It would have been quite a bit different if she had let go, run back for her sword she had dropped and come charging after her sister. Visually a very different story. I do not know if Raphaela had any long term plans after releasing her youki. It seemed to me like Raphaela realized again that the Luciella she knew was gone again and despite her momentary weakness and desire to have her sister back Raphaela recalled her reason for existing and did what she had been planning for years and years.
As for the fractions appearing in regards to Teresa and Luciella being used as samples I do not know if math can explain it. I do not think a AB is just a full youma. They seem more complicated than that with so many unique differences. It gets even more complicated with the whole second generation thing. For me that area is really yet to be explored with Clare. It certainly is not an impossible thought at the moment to have an AB or AO source for a claymore if another Claymore can be used. If nothing else Luciella being weaker than Teresa, even in her awakened form, could account for Clarice's weakness even compared to Clare. But of course this is unknown and entirely speculatory territory.
MalakTawus
2008-06-01, 04:42
I'll say that the main reason was that Luci was alone. Don't forget: Riful had Dauf with her. Isley isn't good enough to take on both of them at the same time.
You are joking, right?Riful and Isley are on a completely different level than Dauf,Dauf means nothing in a fight between AO,it's the same if you say:"Miata doesn't fight alone!Clarice is with her!".The only reason because Isley fought Luci is because she was weaker(even Ralp hinted it) and he knew he could kill her.He is not stupid,his plan would have worked only with a sure win,if Riful was the weaker one he would have gone west and AFTER that south (none can stop them).Priscilla is the strongest one, but she trusts Isley=Isley is the real mind and if he wanted to go west before going south they would have done so.
yezhanquan
2008-06-01, 05:05
Well, Dauf may not be much, but he'll be just that little bit more for Riful to take down Isley.
Awakened
2008-06-01, 08:30
Well, Dauf may not be much, but he'll be just that little bit more for Riful to take down Isley.
Isley arrows can find its target. If Dauf armor cannot protect him from Isley arrows, Dauf would not a factor in a fight between Riful and Isley.
Awakeneds right dauf would not be much help.
Negativedark
2008-06-01, 09:21
Awakeneds right dauf would not be much help.
Your not thinking about how he might provide a distraction. What if at the start of the fight Dauf comes out in a cheerleader outfit?
Dauf- Yah Riful, Rah, rah Riful, Win it All Riful!
Isley- Oh god... I'm going to be sick!
Isley begins throwing up leaving him enabling Riful to easily kill him.
See? Dauf can be very useful.
Your not thinking about how he might provide a distraction. What if at the start of the fight Dauf comes out in a cheerleader outfit?
Dauf- Yah Riful, Rah, rah Riful, Win it All Riful!
Isley- Oh god... I'm going to be sick!
Isley begins throwing up leaving him enabling Riful to easily kill him.
See? Dauf can be very useful.
LOL
Don't forget Dauf has those poles. He can throw them at Easley to distract him even more.:heh:
Mandrake
2008-06-01, 09:46
we havent seen dauf fight when his movement wasent impaired by a huge cave. It allready took 3 of em to win before...how would he do when freed.
you know that the cheerleader outfit just might work.
become a cheerleader save the save the claymore world
If I ever see Dauf in a cheerleader uniform I think I will go run and hide in a corner.
we havent seen dauf fight when his movement wasent impaired by a huge cave. It allready took 3 of em to win before...how would he do when freed.
With the big body of his, I doubt he can move very swiftly. When he and Riful fought the ABs from north he pretty much just sit there and shoot poles like he did in the cave.
@Cyclone: I think that even as an Abyssal with little strength left Luciella was still an Abyssal; one of the most powerful monsters to ever have been created. Just like Miria saying to Clare, "even in this state, I am still a single digit." Killing an Abyssal is not easy even if she is depleted and has little of her full defense available. Had Raphalea not restrained her then maybe she would have fought back and it would have been a fight. Although looking at it again it seems that is not quite her original intention.
It seemed like Raphaela originally intended to use her sword on Luciella as she had it ready and in hand. Whatever her original intention was, it involved a sword not a hug. There is even a panel of Raphaela squeezing her hilt as if to show us her resolve. Luciella cries when she sees her little sister behind her and throws her arms opened and tells her how much she missed her. Raphaela looks surprised. She then drops her sword and runs to her sister whom she has not spoken with since she failed her years and years ago. It seems to be a beautiful reunion until Raphaela hears Luciella start spouting off about how they must kill Isley together. It seems like a painful reminder for Raphaela that her sister is truly gone and it is her fault. She then adjusts her grip on her sisters back which starts to hurt Luciella. Raphaela then apologizes again before releasing her youki. Then the squeeze really begins and Luciella screams until she is silenced.
Raphaela was not the one who invited the hug. That was Luciella. Raphaela came wielding her sword ready to fight. She came as a threat, but then dropped it almost in a moment of weakness when her sister called her name. If anything using her youki to end it quickly was the most humane thing she could do in her situation. It would have been quite a bit different if she had let go, run back for her sword she had dropped and come charging after her sister. Visually a very different story. I do not know if Raphaela had any long term plans after releasing her youki. It seemed to me like Raphaela realized again that the Luciella she knew was gone again and despite her momentary weakness and desire to have her sister back Raphaela recalled her reason for existing and did what she had been planning for years and years.
As for the fractions appearing in regards to Teresa and Luciella being used as samples I do not know if math can explain it. I do not think a AB is just a full youma. They seem more complicated than that with so many unique differences. It gets even more complicated with the whole second generation thing. For me that area is really yet to be explored with Clare. It certainly is not an impossible thought at the moment to have an AB or AO source for a claymore if another Claymore can be used. If nothing else Luciella being weaker than Teresa, even in her awakened form, could account for Clarice's weakness even compared to Clare. But of course this is unknown and entirely speculatory territory.
I will conceed that my explanation might not be the correct one, but currently I think it's no worse than yours. You answered my questions basically as such:
Q: The technique is impractical. Why would anyone use it?
A: She lost her mind momentarily in emotion.
She's been planning this meeting for almost 2 decades and still loses her resolve? Besides, during her "lost in emotions state" in the bottom right panel on page 32 (volume release), she's betraying no emotions - no smiles or tears. She dived into Luciella's arms a little too quickly too I think. Other that brief surprise upon finding here sister so weakened, she didn't really betray any emotion at all - more like concentrating at the task at hand the whole time.
Q: Would the technique even kill her?
A: Luciella was so weakened, Raphaela could afford to goof off.
- Then there was no need for a youki release, right?
Q: The youki release is odd. Makes no sense.
A: Only way to kill Abyssal One. She is still very powerful. Wanted to end it quickly after losing herself in emotions.
- Doesn't jive with point 2.
- The cloaking Raphaela got by not using youki was very useful to her (she should know more about the Org than anyone, and why it's best if they cannot find her), and risking losing it at the spur of the moment doesn't strike me as something she'd do - if she was that impulsive, she'd have done a youki release many many years ago already.
I find it much more likely that Raphaela went there expecting to be killed by awakened monster Luciella in battle. When she arrived, she found the youki in Luciella had weakened so much that it would be easy to kill her, but more importantly, to a point where it was possible to try a Soul Link once more.
From databook 3, I get the impression that a soul link essentially removes the soul from one person (person A) and stores it another (person B). Person A then fully awakens. To end it, Person B pushes the rampaging youki back in Person A in a manner similar to Galatea's methods, and re-insterts the soul back into the body.
My belief is that a youki release by Raphaela during the last 20 or so years would have damaged the bit of Luciella's soul she was holding inside her. That's why she went cold turkey on youki releases.
Upon meeting Luciella again, and still having a bit of her soul inside her, she found Luciella was weakened to a point where manipulating her youki would be easy for her - something she did not expect (but hoped for). There would be no need to push back an Abyssal One level youki making the process much simpler. It would still require a youki release on her part to do the Soul Link of course, but it would be do-able.
Being at close range - like a hug - would also make sense in such a scenario as presumably the technique gets harder with distance.
The cracking sound? Dunno - maybe there is always some associated sound with the Soul Link. Maybe she really did break Luciella's back so as to make her lose conciousness so she could finish doing her Soul Link attempt. Even humans are often "only" paralayzed from a broken back - something Claymores should be able heal without any problems.
chibamonster
2008-06-01, 10:10
Hehe, Duff really did just sit there for the most part even if he did kill a bunch of those AB's with single attacks. I am wondering if Duff ever stands up straight. I had kind of forgotten about him as a character who will probably reappear at some point in the future. As for whether or not Duff factored into Isley's plans I think he may have had something to do with it. With how evenly matched Isley was with Luciella I imagine any outside influence could have turned the tides a little bit which would have forced out Priscilla earlier... Well, that is just speculation. Priscilla wanted to go south and Luciella was the one in the south as others mentioned. Also it seems from Riful's statement about knowing Isley better than anyone that they have some sort of history. I would sure like to know what their history is.
I will conceed that my explanation might not be the correct one, but currently I think it's no worse than yours. You answered my questions basically as such:
Q: The technique is impractical. Why would anyone use it?
A: She lost her mind momentarily in emotion.
She's been planning this meeting for almost 2 decades and still loses her resolve? Besides, during her "lost in emotions state" in the bottom right panel on page 32 (volume release), she's betraying no emotions - no smiles or tears. She dived into Luciella's arms a little too quickly too I think. Other that brief surprise upon finding here sister so weakened, she didn't really betray any emotion at all - more like concentrating at the task at hand the whole time.
Q: Would the technique even kill her?
A: Luciella was so weakened, Raphaela could afford to goof off.
- Then there was no need for a youki release, right?
Q: The youki release is odd. Makes no sense.
A: Only way to kill Abyssal One. She is still very powerful. Wanted to end it quickly after losing herself in emotions.
- Doesn't jive with point 2.
- The cloaking Raphaela got by not using youki was very useful to her (she should know more about the Org than anyone, and why it's best if they cannot find her), and risking losing it at the spur of the moment doesn't strike me as something she'd do - if she was that impulsive, she'd have done a youki release many many years ago already.
I find it much more likely that Raphaela went there expecting to be killed by awakened monster Luciella in battle. When she arrived, she found the youki in Luciella had weakened so much that it would be easy to kill her, but more importantly, to a point where it was possible to try a Soul Link once more.
From databook 3, I get the impression that a soul link essentially removes the soul from one person (person A) and stores it another (person B). Person A then fully awakens. To end it, Person B pushes the rampaging youki back in Person A in a manner similar to Galatea's methods, and re-insterts the soul back into the body.
My belief is that a youki release by Raphaela during the last 20 or so years would have damaged the bit of Luciella's soul she was holding inside her. That's why she went cold turkey on youki releases.
Upon meeting Luciella again, and still having a bit of her soul inside her, she found Luciella was weakened to a point where manipulating her youki would be easy for her - something she did not expect (but hoped for). There would be no need to push back an Abyssal One level youki making the process much simpler. It would still require a youki release on her part to do the Soul Link of course, but it would be do-able.
Being at close range - like a hug - would also make sense in such a scenario as presumably the technique gets harder with distance.
The cracking sound? Dunno - maybe there is always some associated sound with the Soul Link. Maybe she really did break Luciella's back so as to make her lose conciousness so she could finish doing her Soul Link attempt. Even humans are often "only" paralayzed from a broken back - something Claymores should be able heal without any problems.
Well said, that's exactly what I have been thinking all the time.
If I loved my sister so much that I wanted to kill her to put an end to her suffering, I'd do it quick, probably from behind, one hit through the heart. Not slowing toture her to death with my powerful bearhuge XD.
irvinethearcher
2008-06-01, 10:18
To the raffaella hug:
IMO we shouldn't interprete to much in it. Yes there is a possibility that raffaella brought her sister back to claymore-form, from her awakened state and even gave her her soul back. But it doesn't fit to the dark atmosphere yagi created in claymore.
Claymore is simply spoken no country for old women:p
Claymore's is simply spoken no country for old women:p
lol
Riful is definitely the oldest women in the Claymore world as of now, she just choose to remain in the childish form.
Prscilla is older than most if not all the Claymores alive right now as well.:heh:
lol
Riful is definitely the oldest women in the Claymore world as of now, she just choose to remain in the childish form.
Prscilla is older than most if not all the Claymores alive right now as well.:heh:
If Raphaela and Irene are still alive they are older than Priscilla.
chibamonster
2008-06-01, 10:58
@Cyclone: Well, I actually wrote the first paragraph as a hypothetical and then the next one as what I saw from the manga after rereading the part again and rethinking it, almost disagreeing with my initial post. I thought about deleting the first paragraph but decided to keep it there as a just another possibility because this is all speculation. I obviously didn't differentiate enough between the ideas. Sorry about that. It certainly is the less likely one though. I see why you saw the schism in the two points. I do not like the first one as much either. I do not think it invalidates the rest of my post when taken as a separate idea.
Looking back at it I do not think that a youki release squeeze was the only way to kill the youki depleted Abyssal, but Raphaela had dropped her sword so it would be the quick way to do it in comparison to going back and picking it up. I still think Raphaela's initial intention is best shown by her standing there with her sword in hand, the same way she appeared before Irene. Also Luciella was the one who initiated the hug, not Raphaela. I still hold by that from rereading that part yet again. Raphaela appeared with a sword and Luciella threw out her arms and wanted a hug. If Luciella's consent was not necessary for this new technique (because Raphaela definitely did not have Luciella's approval from what she was doing) then Raphaela could have approached her from behind and brought her back without the lengthy goodbye's and apologies. Why apologize for being weak to a monster if you are about to be reunited with your long lost sister?
I think Raphaela's love for her sister was what motivated her during those years of solitude and pain. Even in the end she says she loves her sister. Seeing her sister in her completely human form and not as the salivating multi mouthed monster that destroyed the organization when the soul link failed, especially calling her by name had an impact on Raphaela. She immediately rushes in and apologizes. "If I had only been stronger... If I had only been stronger at that time..."
If Raphaela had some of Luciella's soul in her I did not see it as she was yelling at her sister to return to her awakened form as she lost her. Although it is not impossible. The data book does mention the soul leaving the body and as seen from Beth maintaining that soul is super difficult and requires immense concentration. Admittedly we do not know much about the soul link but we do know that Raphaela and Beth have to suppress their youki until the other one returns which fits with Raphaela keeping her youki cloaked. Rubel even brings up the idea that Raph might be trying to bring her sister back and tells her it is impossible. He later reforms his theory to say Raph actually wants to kill her sister. Rubel may not be able to read youki, but his intuition is pretty good. I do not think Raphaela had any plans beyond her sisters life although I do not think Raphaela is dead either. Her avoiding captors seems easy as she knows the organizations covert ops better than anyone. She was their covert ops.
I still think if Raphaela pulled her sister back it would have to be an entirely new technique. As I mentioned before I think Raphaela had been waiting to make her appearance when killing her sister was possible. Luciella had little to no youki left. As I mentioned with Deneve, even those with the best regenerative powers can do nothing if they use too much youki. Unlike Deneve Luciella could not just awaken to get more because she was already awakened and used all her youki. She could not maintain an awakened form.
I do not think Raphaela expected to go in to fight her fully awakened sister. She would stand no chance against that monster. With Raphaela's cloak she could have wandered the south until she sensed her sisters youki much earlier. It was no secret that Luciella was in the south and it is not like Raphaela was short on time. But would she be able to kill her youki chalked Abyssal sister? Much like Riful appearing to kill Isley after the battle in the south, Raphaela's appearance was coordinated with a once in a lifetime chance to appear before an Abyssal in a near death state. Raphaela joined up with the organization again because they offered her information on the Abyssal war that was to come. And they delivered.
Rereading the part again I think yagi did a fantastic job at showing Raphaela's dilemma of confronting what used to be her sister and facing her failure. It was moving. Ockham's razor comes to mind when I look at the theories for what happened. I know I am not going to convince you of my way of viewing Raphaela and Luciella's exchange and I am fine with that.
@chibamonster, after reading that it makes me think. What if Raphaela was sen't to fight Luciella as a suicide mission. The org. might have sen't her there because they probably didn't want her to live anymore. Anyways now that I think about it, that part where you were talking about the soul link posssibly leaving a part of Luciella's soul in Raphaela's, what if after Raphaela killed Luciella she died shortly after, it could be possible. I hope not because Raphaela is one of my favourite characters. She's supposed to show up again as a french maid remember. Lol
*rubs hands*
So many essays @.@ and the true chapter hasn't even release yet >_<
I think Raphaela's love for her sister was what motivated her during those years of solitude and pain. Even in the end she says she loves her sister. Seeing her sister in her completely human form and not as the salivating multi mouthed monster that destroyed the organization when the soul link failed, especially calling her by name had an impact on Raphaela. She immediately rushes in and apologizes. "If I had only been stronger... If I had only been stronger at that time..."
Luciella went ahead with the experiment with the understanding that Raphaela would pull her back. In that sense Raphaela failed her miserably and she spent the next ~20 years alone as a monster that eats human flesh. Knowing all this, Raphaela has more than enough reason to say what she said.
Rereading the part again I think yagi did a fantastic job at showing Raphaela's dilemma of confronting what used to be her sister and facing her failure. It was moving. Ockham's razor comes to mind when I look at the theories for what happened. I know I am not going to convince you of my way of viewing Raphaela and Luciella's exchange and I am fine with that.
Well, since learning of the 'crack' sound effect, I'm not as certain as I once was either. I just still think the scene is way too suspicious to be taken at face value and write it off as finished.
chibamonster
2008-06-01, 13:42
Personally if I were about to fix a mistake I had made years and years ago from being weak and in doing so would bring back one of the most important people in the world to me from the horrible fate of being a monster I think apologizing would be the last thing on my mind. Especially apologizing to the monster not the human inside. I would be completely focused on the task at hand as it would be so important and judging from the soul link, difficult. I could worry about apologies after I freed their human soul from the hell of being a monster. At that moment if Raphaela was bringing her sister back she would probably want to apologize to her sisters human heart, not the monster which was the result of the mistake she had made. Especially if she still had the gem of her sister's soul contained within her own body.
But of course that is my personality projected onto the characters and not canon answers. Raphaela was still fixated on the mistake she had made, not a remedy or a cure for it. She was still thinking about how weak she had been and what it had meant. No mention is made of how strong she had become and what she could fix. As I see it Raphaela crushing her sister was the cure as she could not fix the mistake any other way. She had been weak and lost her sister and she would do anything to fix it if she could. I have no doubt that Raphaela would bring her sister back if it is possible though. Even if it required sacrificing herself in my estimation. Much like I think Raki would accept becoming a claymore if he could to defend Clare. The question is not their motivation but whether it is possible to them. I am sure Raphaela strained her mind thinking of ways to free her sister and redeem herself.
I think Luciella and Raphaela's story is extremely important to the flow of the plot. Sure it all takes place in one chapter but it took Raphaela from being a shady covert operative to being one of the most fascinating characters in claymore for me. She is the first character besides Clare to get a full blown in depth flashback to her past. Well, Miria had a few pages about when Hilda died back in the slashers arc as well and look at the role she has played. I think Raphaela is immensely important to the story. Yagi has invested too much in her to let her fade away into oblivion without showing us who she is and what she is capable of. Like Clare motivated by Teresa's death, Luciella's fate absolutely has a huge impact on Raphaela.
And of course you know my pet theory about Luciella's body being used in a new experiment as well which would mean she would have an even deeper effect on the plot after her death. But that is just straight up speculation. If I am right I will have to find a smug emoticon to spam through my surprised post. Though I am not planning on it... :D
Kinematics
2008-06-01, 13:57
Q: The technique is impractical. Why would anyone use it?
A: She lost her mind momentarily in emotion.
She's been planning this meeting for almost 2 decades and still loses her resolve?
Rafaela has been planning this meeting for almost 2 decades, yes. But she has been planning to kill the monster her sister became. In all that time of scenario building, she must have realized that if she underestimates the situation, she's dead. Even after fighting Isley, there is a non-zero likelyhood that Luciella would still be at least on the level of an AB. If the creature is stronger than that (ie: beyond Rafaela's capabilities to kill), Rafaela can simply remain masked and wait for another opportunity to present itself. If the creature is weaker, it simply makes the fight that much easier.
She has planned all that out, and using her experience as a purger has probably laid out strategies for various responses Luciella might make: direct fight, running away, leading into traps, sneaky verbal enticements, etc. Any strategy that Luciella might use, Rafaela has had plenty of time to come up with and be ready for. All but one, which would be completely impossible: that she wouldn't be facing a monster at all, but her sister.
When Rafaela finally meets Luciella again, it's not as the monster which was the last thing Rafaela remembers, but as her sister. Her sister who sees her, recognizes her, calls out her name, and is actually crying from the emotions of seeing her again. The rug just got pulled out from under her plot. Despite her elaborate planning, this has been weighing heavily on her mind ever since that incident. Right in front of her is her sister, the sister she could never apologize to, the sister that she failed. What sort of emotions are going to boil up in that situation?
Besides, during her "lost in emotions state" in the bottom right panel on page 32 (volume release), she's betraying no emotions - no smiles or tears. She dived into Luciella's arms a little too quickly too I think. Other that brief surprise upon finding here sister so weakened, she didn't really betray any emotion at all - more like concentrating at the task at hand the whole time.
Here I'll flat out disagree. First, you see no tears because we never see Raf's good eye; all we see is the scar. It's impossible to say whether she cried or not, there, but then Raf has never been visibly over-emotional, and doesn't seem the type to cry easily. Second, just because she's not smiling doesn't mean she's not betraying any emotions.
First, why should she be smiling in the first place? Rafaela regrets her own failure and has spent a lifetime hoping to correct it. This isn't some family reunion in the park, this is the sister that she failed. Someone who's apologizing, someone showing true regret, generally isn't going to be smiling while doing that, else one might suspect that such regret is a touch insincere.
Second, you see some hints of emotion on her face in the bottom corner right below where she hugs her sister, but more particularly, and especially in contrast to the previous page's frame, on the following page's bottom right corner you see a distinct -lack- of emotion -- as if everything welling up inside had just drained away, leaving her cold. That happens after she realizes that Luciella's reactions aren't related to the original awakening incident, but to the recent battle with Isley. Despite what it seemed like at first, this human-shaped body really is a monster, and no longer her sister.
Q: Would the technique even kill her?
A: Luciella was so weakened, Raphaela could afford to goof off.
- Then there was no need for a youki release, right?
I don't agree that Rafaela was 'goofing off'. In fact I don't think, personally, that it was a 'hug of death'. When Rafaela first starts squeezing (upper left frame before the first time Luciella says that it hurts) she isn't releasing any youki. Her hand is still positioned as if it was a hug, with her hand wrapped around Luciella's side. I suspect (opinion only) that that was a fair fraction of what she could exert while not using any youki, and that Luciella's body is still just that strong.
On the following page, though, once Rafaela releases her power, you can see that her fingers are digging into Luciella's back, no longer wrapped around her side. We never get another view of her hand after that, but my suspicion is that she dug her hand through Luciella's body to grab her 'critical spot' (as Rubel put it) and crushed it.
On the following point, calling Rafaela impulsive for using her youki here? This is the culmination of the single event she's been striving for for decades, and the only purpose in her life. To claim that she'd continue to keep her youki in check so she could spy on or be used by the Organization is just silly.
On the other hand, the speculation you had about Rafaela keeping Luciella's soul safe within her all this time is something I've also considered. The events you lay out for that scenario seem quite viable.
Unfortunately it's completely unprovable at this point, so we end up having to stuff Luciella in the box with Irene and the cat. Ok, we'll get a bigger box. They can comfort each other over the fact that Rafaela's being really unfair to them and cats all over the world.
tenken627
2008-06-01, 15:02
So, people are agreeing with my Luciela's soul inside Raphaela theory but not the Luciela taking over Raphaela's body theory, which is really just one step further :heh:.
Negativedark
2008-06-01, 16:37
Also I don't think that the Org was ready for Raphelea to leave just then. Remember the talk Galetea had with Rubel. She said that the orgs plan was to posistion whoever the eye was so they could moniter the north, and if any survivoirs were detected, Raphelea could then be sent to kill them.
tenken627
2008-06-01, 18:44
Also I don't think that the Org was ready for Raphelea to leave just then. Remember the talk Galetea had with Rubel. She said that the orgs plan was to posistion whoever the eye was so they could moniter the north, and if any survivoirs were detected, Raphelea could then be sent to kill them.
Well, Rubel was the one who predicted that Luciela would be killed in the upcoming power struggle after Priscilla appeared. He told as much to Raphaela, and basically used her as a pawn masterfully. When Luciela Awakened, Raphaela was only exiled instead of killed like all the other Claymores.
By being only exiled instead of executed, Raphaela toiled alone with her guilt for years and years. It would be almost inevitable that she would come to the conclusion that she would have to kill Luciela for many different reasons.
Rubel banked on it, and manipulated Raphaela well during his request for her to rejoin the Organization. It was just a matter of when.
And by killing Luciela, Raphaela did everything she was intended to do. Everything else was just a bonus.
And of course you know my pet theory about Luciella's body being used in a new experiment as well which would mean she would have an even deeper effect on the plot after her death. But that is just straight up speculation. If I am right I will have to find a smug emoticon to spam through my surprised post. Though I am not planning on it... :D
Well, I'm planning to be quite smug too if my Luciella theory holds ups. May at least one of us be smug!
Here I'll flat out disagree. First, you see no tears because we never see Raf's good eye; all we see is the scar. It's impossible to say whether she cried or not, there, but then Raf has never been visibly over-emotional, and doesn't seem the type to cry easily. Second, just because she's not smiling doesn't mean she's not betraying any emotions.
First, why should she be smiling in the first place? Rafaela regrets her own failure and has spent a lifetime hoping to correct it. This isn't some family reunion in the park, this is the sister that she failed. Someone who's apologizing, someone showing true regret, generally isn't going to be smiling while doing that, else one might suspect that such regret is a touch insincere.
Second, you see some hints of emotion on her face in the bottom corner right below where she hugs her sister, but more particularly, and especially in contrast to the previous page's frame, on the following page's bottom right corner you see a distinct -lack- of emotion -- as if everything welling up inside had just drained away, leaving her cold. That happens after she realizes that Luciella's reactions aren't related to the original awakening incident, but to the recent battle with Isley. Despite what it seemed like at first, this human-shaped body really is a monster, and no longer her sister.
We all know that in anime/manga-verse tears are like waterfalls. They stay in the eyes for hurt feelings and such, but crying has tears rolling down cheaks and off the chin (we can even exlude the full waterfall effect in Super Deformed anime).
She doesn't show any emotion after the initial surprise. That was my point. Not something I'd attribute to someone acting irrationally on the spur of the moment (like someone who just dropped their Claymore [their only weapon] and jumped into an AO's arms).
I don't agree that Rafaela was 'goofing off'. In fact I don't think, personally, that it was a 'hug of death'. When Rafaela first starts squeezing (upper left frame before the first time Luciella says that it hurts) she isn't releasing any youki. Her hand is still positioned as if it was a hug, with her hand wrapped around Luciella's side. I suspect (opinion only) that that was a fair fraction of what she could exert while not using any youki, and that Luciella's body is still just that strong.
On the following page, though, once Rafaela releases her power, you can see that her fingers are digging into Luciella's back, no longer wrapped around her side. We never get another view of her hand after that, but my suspicion is that she dug her hand through Luciella's body to grab her 'critical spot' (as Rubel put it) and crushed it.
You know, rereading it again I noticed something interesting. The 30% youki veins that appeared on Raphaella during the release, appeared on Luciella too. I don't recollect a youma ever exhibiting that before. I've only seen that on human to youma transformations. In any case, it does seem to indicate that Luciella's youki is being manipulated.
When you couple it the hand on the back, which, as you say, seems to be over the critical spot, it seems to me like that Raphaela is channelling her youki through her hands directly into her sister's source material. I can't prove this of course though (anymore than your claim that Luciella was too tough even in that state for Raphaela to kill normally).
On the following point, calling Rafaela impulsive for using her youki here? This is the culmination of the single event she's been striving for for decades, and the only purpose in her life. To claim that she'd continue to keep her youki in check so she could spy on or be used by the Organization is just silly.
No no no. I never meant to imply that she'd continue working for the Organization. That is silly. But Raphaela of all people knows what happens to Claymores that are in the Organization's way. With Luciella dead, the Org would lose any means of manipulating her and she'd become a liability to them. Raphaela must know, that once Luciella is out of the way, she's next in line for being erased. I really doubt she expects some kind of retirement plan offer. Her only chance is to go into hiding after the Luciella incident - and big youki outbursts which destroy her cloaking are definitely not a good idea for that.
chibamonster
2008-06-02, 01:23
Hmm, I had not noticed the veins on Luciella's cheek. Although the sound effect is wrong for a youki release. Raphaela is making the right sound going biki biki. Same sound of other youki releases. Luciella is going meki meki. Maybe I'll keep an eye opened for the sound effect. It might be her attempting to use her depleted youki to defend herself. I looked in places where someone had been crushed and the first one I thought of was Duph squeezing Clare's head. The sound effect there was mishi mishi. For some reason this reminds me of a conversation that was had just recently about the meaning of sweat on the face and whether or not they are an indicator of strength and growth or an iconographic communication of emotional importance. I thought iconographic as manga has its own visual language (like the tears you mentioned earlier).
Hmm, I had not noticed the veins on Luciella's cheek. Although the sound effect is wrong for a youki release. Raphaela is making the right sound going biki biki. Same sound of other youki releases. Luciella is going meki meki. Maybe I'll keep an eye opened for the sound effect. It might be her attempting to use her depleted youki to defend herself. I looked in places where someone had been crushed and the first one I thought of was Duph squeezing Clare's head. The sound effect there was mishi mishi. For some reason this reminds me of a conversation that was had just recently about the meaning of sweat on the face and whether or not they are an indicator of strength and growth or an iconographic communication of emotional importance. I thought iconographic as manga has its own visual language (like the tears you mentioned earlier).
I think I was mistaken about the veins not appearing on ABs, actually. Just re-read volume 14 and Pricilla in ES3 has them, and they appear occassionally on Duph too. Guess I just never noticed before.
I'll keep a look-out for the meki meki now too and see if I find anything.
Sleepy Speculator
2008-06-02, 05:24
Check out the Riful attack on Clare, also veins there i think, might explain why she's angry, she actually had to exert herself at leaset a bit to attack Clare.
Miria further explain the cause for the experiment, and reveal the fact of alicia& beth to others;
She Asks if Galatea can protect Clarissa& miata in Labona.
Negotiation with people in Labona started.
Rest of the claymores drink wines with sid...etc....
OF course sid and Clare talked about Raki, and Clare got that raki is still Alive, and is travelling with a little girl to the west.
Scene changed, one man with a little girl on his shoulder....appeared.
with the help of the little girl [though her face not shown, Priscilla？ ] [somewhere he claims she is the child of his relatives]sense the yoki, the man killed an yoma.
"glad back to hometown " he said.
Raki
[end~~~~]
-------------
>vinak
i thought he is still a human being~~~ the focus is that the little girl sense the yoki and helped Raki to recognize the yoma~~~
edited:
title for this scene
「七年の星霜」
omfg
I can't wait ........
If it's realy Raki - I'm gonna LOL :D
Raki with a little girl on his shoulder orz
now I can't stop imagining Raki in Kenpachi Zaraki's outfit wearing an eye patch lol
servidor
2008-06-02, 11:08
I don't know if the world is ready for a badass Raki :heh:.
Now in a serious note I wonder, what kind of training Isley put Raki through? or did Isley turn Raki into a Claymore?
the man senses yoki? so does that mean he is a claymore? ab? yoma?
oh man. Clare is going to rush off by herself to find this guy...
plot for Scene 080
Miria further explain the cause for the experiment, and reveal the fact of alicia& beth to others;
She Asks if Galatea can protect Clarissa& miata in Labona.
Negotiation with people in Labona started.
Rest of the claymores drink wines with sid...etc....
OF course sid and Clare talked about Raki, and Clare got that raki is still Alive, and is travelling with a little girl to the west.
Scene changed, one man with a little girl on his shoulder....appeared.
with the help of the little girl [though her face not shown, Priscilla？ ] [somewhere he claims she is the child of his relatives]sense the yoki, the man killed an yoma.
"glad back to hometown " he said.
Raki
[end~~~~]
-------------
>vinak
i thought he is still a human being~~~ the focus is that the little girl sense the yoki and helped Raki to recognize the yoma~~~
Dammit, if this is real, give me a good reason you didn't put it in spoiler tags and spoiled me the whole month. >__<
the man senses yoki? so does that mean he is a claymore? ab? yoma?
oh man. Clare is going to rush off by herself to find this guy...
It says that with the help of the little girl senses the Yoki.
Interpreted that he spot the Yoma due that the little girl sensed the Yoki.
yogi6807
2008-06-02, 13:05
aurr, please read the first page of the thread.
Mandrake
2008-06-02, 13:23
when should we expect the release for the general public :o
chibamonster
2008-06-02, 14:21
So that's the problem, Raki is relying on the pink haired girl on his shoulder for directions and has been lost for 7 years while he runs around. Hehe, well if the spoiler is true. I expect more of a reaction from Clarice. I mean she is the one whose world view is most screwed over in this situation. But then again she owes her life to the ghosts twice over so maybe she will just cry herself to sleep when no one is looking.
tenken627
2008-06-02, 14:42
Well, Raki would be with Priscilla and possibly Isley for 7 years. He would have to know their secret by now. Especially if Priscilla is the one who detected the yoma that Raki will kill (if it is indeed Raki).
But, is Raki that huge of a man now? Priscilla isn't large by any means, but she isn't a child like Miata who could sit on someone's shoulder with ease. Unless he's like Dauf.
And, if it was Priscilla, she could kill a yoma more easily than Raki can unless Raki also has some yoma flesh in him.
King Lycan
2008-06-02, 14:48
Raki ._. makes his return if this spoiler is true :o
I wonder how he looks like
zato_1one
2008-06-02, 14:52
That little girl may be Prissy child. :D
tenken627
2008-06-02, 15:03
That little girl may be Prissy child. :D
Prissy's child? With who? Raki? lol
King Lycan
2008-06-02, 15:09
ewww....what are they going name it ....?
no, no, no.
This man coming to Rabona is Isley and little girl on his shoulder is Raki ('coz Raki IS a girl)
:D
tenken627
2008-06-02, 15:20
If this spoiler is true, I would do a forum signature bet that the Claymores that drinks wine with Cid is Helen and Clare. Fun times.
I don't know if we are ready for a drunk Yuma. We don't want the Claymore world to blow up just yet.
ewww....what are they going name it ....?
If it's Raki and the child is his.....It's gonna be named Clare....thats a given.
or maybe Teresa since he saw that twin goddess statue.
chibamonster
2008-06-02, 15:24
I am still skeptical about the validity of the spoiler. It sounds a bit fishy, kind of like Alicia and Beth being grafted together in the earlier spoiler. I would love to see Yagi draw a male warrior concept though. I expect more of a reaction from the other claymores. Remember when Miria said they had already awakened? That was when they knew they had all crossed their limit and they were freaking out. This is much worse as they did not know and even the ghosts have their world view twisted up here.
King Lycan
2008-06-02, 15:25
If this spoiler is true, I would do a forum signature bet that the Claymores that drinks wine with Cid is Helen and Clare. Fun times.
I don't know if we are ready for a drunk Yuma. We don't want the Claymore world to blow up just yet.
._. Drunken Yuma Punch lol:D8 times more powerful
hmmm. do you think clare drinks
Red or white wine?
khryoleoz
2008-06-02, 16:32
Hi y'all. It's been a while since I've posted.
And, if it was Priscilla, she could kill a yoma more easily than Raki can unless Raki also has some yoma flesh in him.
I can't imagine that Priscilla would be less able under any circumstance than Raki in being able to kill yoma even if Raki himself were hybridized.
Based on people who have seen the new chapter the girl on Raki's shoulder does not really look like Priscilla, so it could be a new character.
And also when Cid and Clare talked about Raki, Cid mentioned he asked Raki was the girl a child of Clare & him where Raki only vaguely answered the girl was a child from some relative.
Mabye it is Raki's and Priscilla's child. If this spoiler is real, I'm going to start to wonder where claymore is really starting to go now.
Mabye it is Raki's and Priscilla's child. If this spoiler is real, I'm going to start to wonder where claymore is really starting to go now.
man I'd be, I mean Clare would be so pissed if that's true. Even more reason for Clare to kill Priscilla now xD
man I'd be, I mean Clare would be so pissed if that's true. Even more reason for Clare to kill Priscilla now xD
Raki would probably stop Clare and it would break her heart. Then Yuma would smash him in the face with a Yuma punch for doing that to Clare after she looked for him for so long.:heh:
King Lycan
2008-06-02, 17:28
._. Raki!! I can't wait to see raki all grown up !! ( i know he was a pain in the butt in the anime)
I wonder if her took some of Prissy Flesh and become a Rakimore :p
chibamonster
2008-06-02, 17:31
I am waiting for some more info before I believe the spoiler, but it is fun to speculate even if it is fake. Really I think Raki should have moved on with his life, even if he never forgets Clare. I mean waiting for a dead girl for 7 years? That is a long time for a young man. It is not like they had a romantic relationship anyway. It would be hilarious if Raki had a kid though. Priscilla as a mommy is such a funny image in my brain.
zato_1one
2008-06-02, 18:14
Based on people who have seen the new chapter the girl on Raki's shoulder does not really look like Priscilla, so it could be a new character.
Who are those people? A Chinese scanlator? :confused:
Please tell them to release the raw now. :D
Edit: If the spoiler is true then that means Raki and this little girl are traveling to the west. This may be relate to what Riful has found. If that little girl is really Prissy child. It would be interesting if Riful capture her...
Negativedark
2008-06-02, 18:27
I'll wait and see. Priscilla could have gotten even younger in apperence. On the other hand if Raki and Priscilla did have a child Claire will probably snap and destroy the world.
Key Board
2008-06-02, 18:36
No, this is good. Nay, great.
imagine the drama potential when Clare kills Raki and Priscilla
That child of theirs is going to swear vengeance and become the next Clare
Thus, the cycle repeats itself!!!!!
mwahahahahaha!!
I think Clare would destroy herself.
King Lycan
2008-06-02, 18:38
I know clare isn;t going to kill Prissy because raki is going to bitch about..and say how good a person Prissy is
Who are those people? A Chinese scanlator? :confused:
Please tell them to release the raw now. :D
Edit: If the spoiler is true then that means Raki and this little girl are traveling to the west. This may be relate to what Riful has found. If that little girl is really Prissy child. It would be interesting if Riful capture her...
I don't think the Chinese scan has been out yet.
The source was one very reputed /trusted member on tsstory.com so I'd say it is probably true.
The girl being Pscrilla's child is all speculation tho.
If it is Priscilla's child mabye she is really powerful and thats what Riful found out. Or mabye Easley sen't Raki out west to get Priscilla's child to kill Riful and Dauf, and mabye Riful wants thier child to use her to beat Easley and Priscilla.
The possibilties are endless.
tenken627
2008-06-02, 19:13
I don't know. The spoiler may be true, but I just don't see an AB (Priscilla) and a normal human (Raki) producing a child.
I can see an AB (Priscilla) and another AB (Isley) producing one more so than the other way.
servidor
2008-06-02, 19:31
The idea of Raki and Pricilla having a child, that might have several of the powers of an AO, is not that original. There are several legends with this theme, where a man marries some woman not knowing that she is a super natural being. One of this is the Japanese legend of the Yuki Onna or snow woman.
And the idea that AO and Claymores might be able to breed is an interesting one.
tunjee01
2008-06-02, 19:36
Just a question guys, but is it possible to make a claymore from two different youmas
fake 80 spoiler I made while I was bored XD
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj161/jonovax/80fake.jpg
One picture I used is taken from bootleg of deviantart.
Bikerider
2008-06-02, 20:13
BTW: Raki didn't know Clare was in the north. Unless he was told by an MiB or another Claymore he happened by, which I doubt. So him looking for her in places they traveled together is a good plan. For all he knows, she hiding / running from the Org after Ophelia attacked them.
King Lycan
2008-06-02, 20:14
wow lol
U must have been real bored if u took your time to make that....
Gessssh i want real sppoilers now !!!! Im so bored *tears*
must resist going to the hospital.
MalakTawus
2008-06-02, 20:52
I can't resist......i'm going to the hospital.......ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
If I just sit here and refresh this page long enough, someone's bound to find the raws online soon...
Couple more refreshes ought to do it...
It's gonna be soon...
Maybe the browser is hiding it from me. I'll start viewing page source! It wont get past me!!
Why are IE, firefox and even Lynx betraying me?!?
It's going to be soon... gotta be soon... anytime now... soon...
*refresh*
soon...
If I just sit here and refresh this page long enough, someone's bound to find the raws online soon...
Couple more refreshes ought to do it...
It's gonna be soon...
Maybe the browser is hiding it from me. I'll start viewing page source! It wont get past me!!
Why are IE, firefox and even Lynx betraying me?!?
It's going to be soon... gotta be soon... anytime now... soon...
*refresh*
soon...
Oh good, I'm not the only one doing this :)
/refresh/
honestly, usually the chinese scans are out by now...GET TO WORK PEOPLE!! We are suffering here!!!!
Pretty please :)
chibamonster
2008-06-02, 21:30
I need real raws fast. The chinese raws just make me angry because I cannot read them and then have to hunt down some translation. The image of people checking into hospitals to induce a coma and cyclone hitting refresh enough to break his mouse on his *new computer make me laugh a bit.
Hmm. Time for some more speculation. Maybe Raki does know who Isley and Priscilla are, but Isley also informed him about what the organization does as well and how they are really at fault for their fate and the fate of Clare (leaving out of course that Isley had the claymores killed). Then Raki might work with them even knowing who they are. Just an idea I had while cooking.
*although I am hoping that Cyclone's years of studying japanimation has resulted in a successful vigilante mission to get his stuff back. Then he would not need a new computer.
honestly, usually the chinese scans are out by now...GET TO WORK PEOPLE!! We are suffering here!!!!
Pretty please :)
lol XD
the Chinese scans aren't out yet because the first day of this month, usually the day the new Jump magazine is delivered to local bookstore, was a Sunday so no bookstore was open =(.
But it's aready mid-tuesday in japan!!!!
japanese mailmen/women must be slacking!!
paula_mink
2008-06-02, 21:48
Ah my...
I can't wait anymore! I'm going to the hospital too!
someone please, find this holy raws!
yezhanquan
2008-06-02, 21:52
You guys might want to check out the Rosario Vampire forums. If they have this month's raws, that means Claymore should not be far off.
we sounds like a bunch of heroin addicits!! lol
*although I am hoping that Cyclone's years of studying japanimation has resulted in a successful vigilante mission to get his stuff back. Then he would not need a new computer.
While I do miss some of the contents of the harddrive, this computer is better than the one which was stolen. The only little problem with it is Vista... must have spent a week configuring it already and it STILL mis-behaves at times. Ah well - at least life isn't boring.
tenken627
2008-06-02, 22:01
The idea of Raki and Pricilla having a child, that might have several of the powers of an AO, is not that original. There are several legends with this theme, where a man marries some woman not knowing that she is a super natural being. One of this is the Japanese legend of the Yuki Onna or snow woman.
And the idea that AO and Claymores might be able to breed is an interesting one.
The problem with that in Claymore is that it does not seem like Claymores and normal humans can breed.
Teresa did not care if the bandits raped her, which shows that Claymores can mate, but leads to the assumption that she is not able to bear children, at least with another human.
An Awakened Being is a different matter. You would think that an Awakened Being would also not be able to breed with a normal human like their Claymore counterparts, and I doubt anyone has tried before.
But, interestingly, Awakened Beings in their non-Awakened forms more closely resemble normal humans than Claymores do. Awakening leads a Claymore to regain their human hair and eye colors, as well as remove the deformity on their abdomen. Priscilla and Agatha naked both showed no signs of any of the supposed deformity that all Claymores share.
Could Awakening cause a Claymore to regain their reproductive ability as well?
Just a question guys, but is it possible to make a claymore from two different youmas
I wouldn't doubt that the Organization has tried in the past and ultimately failed. But, who knows? It took them this long to try making a Claymore from another Claymore.
Having two different yomas within one human does kind of sound unstable though.
chibamonster
2008-06-02, 22:05
I think the whole "critical point" is a big part of it. It has not been mentioned in a while, but as speculation I think it has something to do with Claymores and youma life force as they can survive injuries that would be fatal to a human as long as that point remains intact (from what I read in the first few chapters, maybe yagi changed his mind about it). Clare for instance has Teresa's youki within her and Irene's arm which has maintained its individuality through all these years. But whether a claymore can have 2 sources is unknown. I think it is unlikely, but that is just a thought and I have little evidence.
Having two different yomas within one human does kind of sound unstable though.
well a human/yoma hybrid is a soul link right? Claymores are always talking about keeping their yoma undercontrol, and once they lose the control they turn into AB. Same with Alicia/beth, they got flesh from the same yoma so they can link because of that? So having flesh of 2 different yomas is out of question then, based on this logic anyway?
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