Romance in Macross

[Tak]

Because considering all possibilities, for Macross F the movie to continue where the plot left off is well, difficult. This entire series have focused so much on the Vajra, Galaxy and co. Now, they've all either disappeared, destroyed or pacified, what is left for Frontier in a continuation movie? The triangle? Sorry, but while I'd love a conclusion to the triangle, I don't see how focusing on the LT exclusively is going to be all that interesting. This is Macross people.

Of course, they can always thrown in another Zentradi strike fleet the size of Baldoza ...

We know one thing. The movie has to make money. A reteling after the series just ended? In a form of a movie? Kawamori make no money, Kawamori sad, Kawamori and the studio bye bye. :rolleyes:

Yeah, then whats DYRL?

That shit made mucho cash for Kawamori-san.

It can be a retelling from another perspective, like Escaflowne the movie.

- Tak

[Urei]

Because considering all possibilities, for Macross F the movie to continue where the plot left off is well, difficult. This entire series have focused so much on the Vajra, Galaxy and co. Now, they've all either disappeared, destroyed or pacified, what is left for Frontier in a continuation movie? The triangle? Sorry, but while I'd love a conclusion to the triangle, I don't see how focusing on the LT exclusively is going to be all that interesting. This is Macross people.

Of course, they can always thrown in another Zentradi strike fleet the size of Baldoza ...

Yeah, then whats DYRL?

That shit made mucho cash for Kawamori-san.

It can be a retelling from another perspective, like Escaflowne the movie.

- Tak

Do you seriously think that people will pay money to watch the same unresolved ending once again? If you were a producer what would you do? Gamble your luck on this thin hope or do something else?

About the first thing. There are plenty of villain spots left open here. Who did run amok on the destroyed Earth after the Bodolza fight? Enemies are everywhere.

[Tak]

Do you seriously think that people will pay money to watch the same unresolved ending once again?

You are not reading my stuff correctly. I did not comment on the unresolved ending, I commented on making the movie using another perspective, where it can potentially resolve the LT.

That is what DYRL was about, a retelling of Macross while decisively resolving the triangle.

Did people pay to see DYRL? Shitload of them surely did.


About the first thing. There are plenty of villain spots left open here. Who did run amok on the destroyed Earth after the Bodolza fight? Enemies are everywhere.

If you want to focus on Earth and all, then thats really another story, and not quite Frontier.

- Tak

[magnuskn]

Because considering all possibilities, for Macross F the movie to continue where the plot left off is well, difficult. This entire series have focused so much on the Vajra, Galaxy and co. Now, they've all either disappeared, destroyed or pacified, what is left for Frontier in a continuation movie? The triangle? Sorry, but while I'd love a conclusion to the triangle, I don't see how focusing on the LT exclusively is going to be all that interesting. This is Macross people.

Of course, they can always thrown in another Zentradi strike fleet the size of Baldoza ...



Yeah, then whats DYRL?

That shit made mucho cash for Kawamori-san.

It can be a retelling from another perspective, like Escaflowne the movie.

- Tak

Urk, please no Escaflowne: The Movie. Please, no!

And, well, it would make sense to return to the Zents a bit. That two episodes just wet our appetites, I say! Zentran! Zentran! Zentran!

[Urei]

You are not reading my stuff correctly. I did not comment on the unresolved ending, I commented on making the movie using another perspective, where it can potentially resolve the LT.

That is what DYRL was about, a retelling of Macross while decisively resolving the triangle.

Did people pay to see DYRL? Shitload of them surely did.

The end result was exactly the same in the series as in the movie. The process was different. The movie compiles Hikarus reasoning from episode 36 into 114 minutes. You are saying that we might get a new ending with a final resolution. What we got at the end of the series never confirmed or explained anything. It's what we want to believe thats confirmed at the end.


If you want to focus on Earth and all, then thats really another story, and not quite Frontier.

- Tak

So colonizing a new planet with a semi-destroyed fleet that went through a major battle would not pose enough problems to have quirks and some inside conflicts? Let's add the fact of coping with Vajras. Not only that, there are still people around who can use the new found technology for their own means.

[kujoe]

Well, it could be a retelling like DYRL. That's certainly possible, given the limited details we have at the moment.

But just as the Macross Plus movie has a better Guld death scene and an extended ending, perhaps we'll get a retelling that has added material as well. Or just like DYRL, the movie could be more focused on certain aspects of the story... love triangle, Vajra or whatever. One can hope so at the very least.

Personally, I'd rather have the movie start where the series left off. It's just going to be somewhere around 1 to 2 hours anyway (maybe), so some great, brand new villain isn't really that needed.

[TwilightHack]

Personally, I'd rather have the movie start where the series left off. It's just going to be somewhere around 1 to 2 hours anyway (maybe), so some great, brand new villain isn't really that needed.
That's what a lot of people want as opposed to a DYRL re-imagining.

Honestly, tie off the loose ends... solve the LT (or at least make it clearer)... and I'll be fine. :D

[abynormal]

Do you seriously think that people will pay money to watch the same unresolved ending once again? If you were a producer what would you do? Gamble your luck on this thin hope or do something else?


Repackage a very successful series with a pedigree with higher production values, new music to market, a retooled script, and in a length that's easier to digest and market than a twenty-five episode series, marketed to fans of the series who hope the story cleans up the weak areas of the series and will consume any product related to the franchise as well as to fans of the music?

If I were a producer, hell yes I'd make it. Easy money. Just look at how fast fans gobbled up Rebuild of Evangelion.

[magnuskn]

Repackage a very successful series with a pedigree with higher production values, new music to market, a retooled script, and in a length that's easier to digest and market than a twenty-five episode series, marketed to fans of the series who hope the story cleans up the weak areas of the series and will consume any product related to the franchise as well as to fans of the music?

If I were a producer, hell yes I'd make it. Easy money. Just look at how fast fans gobbled up Rebuild of Evangelion.

And why wouldn´t a continuation work just as well? It´ll make fans just as excited.

[abynormal]

And why wouldn´t a continuation work just as well? It´ll make fans just as excited.

*puts on spineless executive hat*

Because with a new story there's a danger that it will suck a la Macross II. Frontier already has a good story and is a safer bet, albeit retooled for a shorter format.

*takes off spineless executive hat*

After thinking about it, I smell executive meddling in this whole mess. I don't think Kawamori was afraid to end the LT, but some producer over him was afraid of how Ranka's fanbase would react, leading to decreased DVD and merchandise sales.

[magnuskn]

*puts on spineless executive hat*

Because with a new story there's a danger that it will suck a la Macross II. Frontier already has a good story and is a safer bet, albeit retooled for a shorter format.

*takes off spineless executive hat*

After thinking about it, I smell executive meddling in this whole mess. I don't think Kawamori was afraid to end the LT, but some producer over him was afraid of how Ranka's fanbase would react, leading to decreased DVD and merchandise sales.

Yeah, I also said it in the episode 25 thread. The rather poor animation quality at last minutes and that they completely ditched the awesome set-up from episode 24 to really resolve the romance... that all smells to me like last-minute editorial interference.

I just think that they simply want to stretch it out until the movie... which I *somehow* imagine could just happen *after* the last series DVD is out. ^^

[Wesley84]

That's exactly what I've been wondering ever since I started paying attention to his posts. He seems to be watching something else entirely. :D

You know, I get that alot, and not just in this series. Others as well. I don't really understand it though...

[kujoe]

I don't think Kawamori was afraid to end the LT, but some producer over him was afraid of how Ranka's fanbase would react, leading to decreased DVD and merchandise sales.
Just wondering... Did the resolved triangle in the first Macross affect the series badly? Was there a Minmay backlash or something back then? I mean, we even got DYRL.

All in all, despite some vocal fans it wasn't that bad, right? Then again, I'm probably missing something here.

[Wesley84]

People joke about the one Minmay fan in existence, so if that's any indication...

Actually I don't really understand the hate on her character. I'm ten episodes in, and the damaged, needy one is obviously Misa.

[abynormal]

Just wondering... Did the resolved triangle in the first Macross affect the series badly? Was there a Minmay backlash or something back then? I mean, we even got DYRL.

All in all, despite some vocal fans it wasn't that bad, right? Then again, I'm probably missing something here.

What's missing is the freedom of the creative team to take risks without meddling from people higher up with too many hands in their pockets.

[Wesley84]

I disagree. They take plenty of risks, they're just low stake ones, where no one will care if they commit to or not.

[Tak]

The end result was exactly the same in the series as in the movie. The process was different. The movie compiles Hikarus reasoning from episode 36 into 114 minutes. You are saying that we might get a new ending with a final resolution. What we got at the end of the series never confirmed or explained anything. It's what we want to believe thats confirmed at the end.

I don't quite understand here. I commented on the Frontier movie being potentially like DYRL told in a re-imagined fashion (not cut-n-paste). I prefer this because it can help tie up loose ends and decisively resolve the triangle. DYRL did just that. The original series ended with a rather iffy resolution, and DYRL confirmed the final resolution.


So colonizing a new planet with a semi-destroyed fleet that went through a major battle would not pose enough problems to have quirks and some inside conflicts? Let's add the fact of coping with Vajras. Not only that, there are still people around who can use the new found technology for their own means.

First, they've just gained the Vajra as an ally of sorts, and as long as mankind don't try to tap Vajra's secret, there won't be a problem. With that said, there aren't any big enemies left, either. Unless, as I said, you want to throw in yet another Zent fleet.

Of course, shit can happen if Ranka goes awol again. Besides, if some idiot would like to use the new-found tech to their own gain, they'd probably have to kidnap Ranka first to make those 'new-found' tech operational. The problem with that though, is that the Vajra knows first hand wherever Ranka is, which kind of makes kidnapping her and repeating Frontier 1 ~ 25 difficult...

- Tak

[BetoJR]

You people are forgetting that DYRL took a couple of years to come out, no?

And it wasn't announced for quite a bit, either, after the series ended. :D

[Tak]

You people are forgetting that DYRL took a couple of years to come out, no?

Well I am expecting this baby to hit theaters in 2009 AD :p

Why? It'd coincide with Space War I!

- Tak

[BetoJR]

That would be cool. :D

[Cadorna]

YEah, if i remenber , the Space War I begins in febrary

[Aeshma]

YEah, if i remenber , the Space War I begins in febrary

Cadorna? More like Gadorcha.

[Westlo]

People joke about the one Minmay fan in existence, so if that's any indication...

Actually in Japan Minmei was the most popular character in the show by far and probably one of the most popular characters of the 80's for all anime.

Actually I don't really understand the hate on her character. I'm ten episodes in, and the damaged, needy one is obviously Misa.

Nothing she does in the first ten episodes is the basis for most of the hate she gets.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Actually I don't really understand the hate on her character. I'm ten episodes in, and the damaged, needy one is obviously Misa.

Please, you haven't seen her in the later episodes. I certainly have taken out my sympathy for her in Episode 18 up... God Knows I don't want to talk about her again...

[KiraYamatoFan]

After thinking about it, I smell executive meddling in this whole mess. I don't think Kawamori was afraid to end the LT, but some producer over him was afraid of how Ranka's fanbase would react, leading to decreased DVD and merchandise sales.

First of all, they should consider this: What is the percentage of fans who are true hardcore Ranka fans really wanting her to get with Alto? How many are they (estimated) to react that badly if Ranka lost? I say that because from the reaction I've seen so far as reported here and from Japan, they are either a not-so-big percentage or they are hidden somewhere. In other words, should they worry that much of lower sales? ;)

Even if Ranka fans are quite a number, ending the LT wouldn't mean there's no way to restore some glory with her character despite losing Alto. From what I see, Ranka is still singing a lot and has room in improving her character.

[stormy001_M1A2]

First, they've just gained the Vajra as an ally of sorts, and as long as mankind don't try to tap Vajra's secret, there won't be a problem. With that said, there aren't any big enemies left, either. Unless, as I said, you want to throw in yet another Zent fleet.

Of course, shit can happen if Ranka goes awol again. Besides, if some idiot would like to use the new-found tech to their own gain, they'd probably have to kidnap Ranka first to make those 'new-found' tech operational. The problem with that though, is that the Vajra knows first hand wherever Ranka is, which kind of makes kidnapping her and repeating Frontier 1 ~ 25 difficult...

- Tak

I suspect rogue elements within Frontier military will be next villain in the movie. Afterall Leon still commands loyalty of secretive black ops from Intelligence Section, surely he has something up in his sleeves to readdress his situation.

[abynormal]

First of all, they should consider this: What is the percentage of fans who are true hardcore Ranka fans really wanting her to get with Alto? How many are they (estimated) to react that badly if Ranka lost? I say that because from the reaction I've seen so far as reported here and from Japan, they are either a not-so-big percentage or they are hidden somewhere. In other words, should they worry that much of lower sales? ;)

Even if Ranka fans are quite a number, ending the LT wouldn't mean there's no way to restore some glory with her character despite losing Alto. From what I see, Ranka is still singing a lot and has room in improving her character.

Of course we both know what the fans think because we monitor and participate in the communities. Executives in entertainment have a long track record of not knowing what the heck their fans really want. Chances are they just track how many Ranka supporters there are (rather, they hire someone else to do it) and assume they want her to be with Alto in the end, when that's not necessarily the case. I know I'm taking a very cynical view of things, but history doesn't leave me with a whole lot of confidence.

I posted a plot that would work just fine with a concluded LT in the movie thread that still makes room for romantic tension between the three. It would be easy to do, but first the marketing guys need to do their jobs and let the writers and directors do theirs.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Forget to mention this. Any discussion about Macross Frontier Movie from now on should be directed to the respective thread. Otherwise, monir might see and nag you all :heh:

[Wesley84]

First of all, they should consider this: What is the percentage of fans who are true hardcore Ranka fans really wanting her to get with Alto? How many are they (estimated) to react that badly if Ranka lost? I say that because from the reaction I've seen so far as reported here and from Japan, they are either a not-so-big percentage or they are hidden somewhere. In other words, should they worry that much of lower sales? ;)

Even if Ranka fans are quite a number, ending the LT wouldn't mean there's no way to restore some glory with her character despite losing Alto. From what I see, Ranka is still singing a lot and has room in improving her character.

Her character went no where in the final episodes and even regressed. Do you know how happy I was when she dumped Alto's ass? Do you!? I was very f-ing happy! Then she gets kidnapped by the Vajra, but somehow ends up under Grace's control, making her decision to leave Frontier and Alto worthless!

She didn't even get to save herself after being brainwashed, and Sheryl ends up taking away the one thing that made Ranka special throughout the entire series.

Ranka should be killed, not because I hate her character, but because they basically trashed her in the end to needlessly prolong the love triangle.

I wanted her to succeed, but she failed on every level.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Her character went no where in the final episodes and even regressed. Do you know how happy I was when she dumped Alto's ass? Do you!? I was very f-ing happy! Then she gets kidnapped by the Vajra, but somehow ends up under Grace's control, making her decision to leave Frontier and Alto worthless!

She didn't even get to save herself after being brainwashed, and Sheryl ends up taking away the one thing that made Ranka special throughout the entire series.

Ranka should be killed, not because I hate her character, but because they basically trashed her in the end to needlessly prolong the love triangle.

I wanted her to succeed, but she failed on every level.

You can bet I was happy when Ranka was no longer around and gave plenty of room for Sheryl to pull Alto towards her.:D

Speaking of Ranka, it's really disgusting to see her remaining at the same status of damsel is distress STILL waiting her knight. I really expected her to give more of a fight against Grace rather than just sit there. I don't know how Ranka fans see this, but I think they seriously need to watch the old SDFM series to see how Minmay earned respect as a character despite having almost all the same flaws Ranka has in order to see how Ranka's character is a mess right now. Minmay chose what was best for his loved one at the very end, continued towards her main dream as a singer, became a legend at the same time she kept her friendship with Hikaru alive, and not to forget that she never had to wait for her knight that much before doing anything.

Man, I wonder how Megumi Nakajima would feel now after she clearly stated Ranka needs to let Alto go in order to grow up as a person.

[Wesley84]

Man, I wonder how Megumi Nakajima would feel now after she clearly stated Ranka needs to let Alto go in order to grow up as a person.

And she did, but then they needed to curbstomp Grace for the grand finale, along with some kind of victim and deus ex machina to make it all work properly...

You know, rather than have Alto seriously follow through with his "kill Ranka" resolve, and make him and Sheryl into badguys, they had to dress Ranka down completely.

Ranka and Sheryl were never rivals, never friends, what the hell was that in the last episode?

[Joachim]

yuri's love blossom without you ever knowing it mate..

[kilroy0097]

My hope for the movie is not only to wrap up the LT which is very much needed but to also move along in the grand story to a new adventure.

I'm hoping it's this (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1945425&postcount=92) which is my post in the Macross Frontier Movie thread.

[Joachim]

damn yea, hopefully kawamori has the same idea as you killroy, if that really happen i will be moaning like a crazed bastard "THIS IS WHAT WE WANT!"

i think there will be an explanation in the future of what actually happened to megaroad 1 (stumble upon another dimension which is where protoculture reside in, etc2) man yes!

[Wesley84]

They should have killed Mikhail off early just so we could have watched Klan get over it.

[monir]

And she did, but then they needed to curbstomp Grace for the grand finale, along with some kind of victim and deus ex machina to make it all work properly...

You know, rather than have Alto seriously follow through with his "kill Ranka" resolve, and make him and Sheryl into badguys, they had to dress Ranka down completely.

Ranka and Sheryl were never rivals, never friends, what the hell was that in the last episode?
I'm looking forward to your post in the eventual Overall Series Impression thread just because I also agree with you that the series has been pretty inconsistent through out its storytelling in regards to some of the driving factors for those plot points.

[AMDX1325]

So in the end, the LT is pointless, the entire series is pointless.

[magnuskn]

So in the end, the LT is pointless, the entire series is pointless.

And? So are you.

[BetoJR]

@AMDX1325: Hmmm... most people here tend to disagree with you (myself included), so... let's wait for the Overall Series Impression thread, shall we?

[Urei]

@AMDX1325: Hmmm... most people here tend to disagree with you (myself included), so... let's wait for the Overall Series Impression thread, shall we?

At least 5 months of waiting for that :heh:

[AMDX1325]

y taking that comment of mine so seriously???

Im being sarcastic, Bill Bailey style......:upset: you know how things starts and ends, anime does, human does...just the greater way of the world...

I, of course enjoyed the Macross F series alot. Can't wait for the movie.

[magnuskn]

y taking that comment of mine so seriously???

Im being sarcastic, Bill Bailey style......:upset: you know how things starts and ends, anime does, human does...just the greater way of the world...

I, of course enjoyed the Macross F series alot. Can't wait for the movie.

Sometimes, sarcasm translates rather poor in writing. That´s what smileys are for.

[AMDX1325]

Sometimes, sarcasm translates rather poor in writing. That´s what smileys are for.

yea facial expression and tone helps....:D

[TwilightHack]

y taking that comment of mine so seriously???

Im being sarcastic, Bill Bailey style......:upset: you know how things starts and ends, anime does, human does...just the greater way of the world...

I, of course enjoyed the Macross F series alot. Can't wait for the movie.
Don't worry, some people are as dense to sarcasm as trolls are to reason. It's quite interesting really.

*takes off spineless executive hat*

After thinking about it, I smell executive meddling in this whole mess. I don't think Kawamori was afraid to end the LT, but some producer over him was afraid of how Ranka's fanbase would react, leading to decreased DVD and merchandise sales.
The more I think about it, I also smell executive meddling. I don't know, but it just doesn't add up for SK to mess up his entire series by an ending that doesn't fit.

[magnuskn]

Don't worry, some people are as dense to sarcasm as trolls are to reason. It's quite interesting really.

What was missing was context. If he was responding sarcastically to someone, quoting that person would have helped.

The more I think about it, I also smell executive meddling. I don't know, but it just doesn't add up for SK to mess up his entire series by an ending that doesn't fit.

I think I was the first who talked of a last-minute editorial rewrite. ^^ The rather poor artwork in the last three minutes for the main three seems like another sign of that to me.

[BetoJR]

What was missing was context. If he was responding sarcastically to someone, quoting that person would have helped.
EXACTLY my thoughts on the matter. :D
I don't picture myself as dense to sarcasm, but over written words out of context, and without any smileys, anyone can be prey to some confusion. :heh:

As for the last minute rewrite's possibility: it's entirely possible. BUT we have to see how Kawamori's recent interview ultimately fits into the overall outcome of the series. I'm still not convinced about the "cultural" comments, there. :frustrated:

[glyph]

Don't worry, some people are as dense to sarcasm as trolls are to reason. It's quite interesting really.


I also smell executive meddling. I don't know, but it just doesn't add up for SK to mess up his entire series by an ending that doesn't fit.

What ending that doesn't fit? That was the point of Sheryl insisting Alto rescuing Ranka before she'd listen to his words, and Ranka insisting Sheryl not give up even after her part was done and curing her. They want Alto to make a clear decision from his true feelings, not a victory based (possibly) on pity, or the convenient demise of the other point of the triangle. Now, with all the stuff that goes on in 25, there's absolutely no way they can convincingly resolve the romance in the last 30 seconds of the show to the satisfaction of the girls.

Even in the finale of SDFM (which IMO was botched and arguably just as open as Frontier's ending), Hikaru had already made a choice in the early part of the episode, giving Minmay time to come to accept it by the end. Remember, Ranka didn't give up Alto because she fell out of love with him, but because she was forced to by her circumstances and conscience. Also, she doesn't know everything that went on between Sheryl and Alto while she was gone. There's no reason why she would say "You love is stronger than mine. I give up." to Sheryl.

As for Alto breaking it to her during the "you are both my wings" segment, it would be anticlimatic in the buildup to the upbeat theme of everyone working together to beat down on Battle Galaxy and Grace. Also, IMO, Ranka as a character isn't quite yet emotionally strong enough to take it and continue singing, unlike Minmay. Similar to why they didn't kill Ozma or Brera off.

[magnuskn]

What ending that doesn't fit? That was the point of Sheryl insisting Alto rescuing Ranka before she'd listen to his words, and Ranka insisting Sheryl not give up even after her part was done and curing her. They want Alto to make a clear decision from his true feelings, not a victory through (possible) pity, or the convenient demise of the other point of the triangle. Now, with all the stuff that goes on in 25, there's absolutely no way they can convincingly resolve the romance in the last 30 seconds of the show to the satisfaction of the girls.

Quite honestly, two minutes would have been enough. A possible scenario ( sorry, if it sounds cliched ):

Alto lands next to Sheryl and Ranka, they both hug him. Sheryl then says that she doesn´t want to get between Ranka and him and prepares to leave. Alto then takes Sheryl into his arms and deeply kisses her, declaring his love for her.

Ranka is shocked at first and Sheryl also glances with worry at her reaction, but then Ranka takes a short moment to go into herself and declares that she is happy for both of them, but that she won´t lose to Sheryl in music. The end.

That would have been enough for me. Wouldn´t have taken more than the two minutes they spent on having him do his fly around and Ranka doing her challenge.

[TwilightHack]

What was missing was context. If he was responding sarcastically to someone, quoting that person would have helped.
It was a general statement not directed at anyone. And its true if you think about it.

As for the other stuff, I'm not even going to bother trying to argue a point. I'm still burnt trying to get over the lame ending. Read the Ep25 thread if you want to know reasonings.

[Urei]

What ending that doesn't fit? That was the point of Sheryl insisting Alto rescuing Ranka before she'd listen to his words, and Ranka insisting Sheryl not give up even after her part was done and curing her. They want Alto to make a clear decision from his true feelings, not a victory based (possibly) on pity, or the convenient demise of the other point of the triangle. Now, with all the stuff that goes on in 25, there's absolutely no way they can convincingly resolve the romance in the last 30 seconds of the show to the satisfaction of the girls.

Well, I posted a similar thought in this thread when episode 25 aired. A conclusion with all of this build up, fighting ect. would have been very rushed.

Even in the finale of SDFM (which IMO was botched and arguably just as open as Frontier's ending), Hikaru had already made a choice in the early part of the episode, giving Minmay time to come to accept it by the end. Remember, Ranka didn't give up Alto because she fell out of love with him, but because she was forced to by her circumstances and conscience. Also, she doesn't know everything that went on between Sheryl and Alto while she was gone. There's no reason why she would say "You love is stronger than mine. I give up." to Sheryl.

We can argue on that. I think SDF ended in a pretty straight forward way.

As for Alto breaking it to her during the "you are both my wings" segment, it would be anticlimatic in the buildup to the upbeat theme of everyone working together to beat down on Battle Galaxy and Grace. Also, IMO, Ranka as a character isn't quite yet emotionally strong enough to take it and continue singing, unlike Minmay. Similar to why they didn't kill Ozma of Brera off.

Yes, well, this is the conclusion of the rushed storytelling theory from the earlier part of the post. Thats the sole reason why I can't accept Ranka as she is at the end. There is no reason why she could fight with Sheryl. I'd expect much more reasoning put behind that statement about not losing. Considering what we were shown those were empty words.

EDIT, Thats' why I'd expect more of her development in something that could resolve the matter once and for all.

[glyph]

Well, I posted a similar thought in this thread when episode 25 aired. A conclusion with all of this build up, fighting ect. would have been very rushed.



We can argue on that. I think SDF ended in a pretty straight forward way.


The reason that forced Hikaru to choose whether to quit the military and settle down with Minmay or stay in the military with Misa was because Misa was leaving Earth indefinitely on the Megaroad. And SDFM Hikaru makes Alto look like the paragon of decisiveness. Not that I bought that Alto was as wishy washy as the other characters claim he is.

Minmay asking to also go along with the Megaroad negates the need to make that choice, and can be seen as a playful challenge "you may have won for now, but if you don't treasure him, I'll steal him from right under you yet", which Misa accepts (like Ranka's challenge to Sheryl, only more tactful). It's only through DYRL and the supplementary unanimated material we got to confirm how that triangle worked out. I think some people who watched Flashback actually thought Hikaru choose Minmay.


Yes, well, this is the conclusion of the rushed storytelling theory from the earlier part of the post. Thats the sole reason why I can't accept Ranka as she is at the end. There is no reason why she could fight with Sheryl. I'd expect much more reasoning put behind that statement about not losing. Considering what we were shown those were empty words.
Personally, I'd rather Kawamori screw the symbology, end episode 25 with the cliffhanger of Grace siccing the Vajra on humanity, and use half of episode 26 to wrap things up cleanly with an epilogue and time skip. But as it is, the open ending was pretty much expected.

[justavisitor]

Personally I think the director has already done the best job to make it a great ending.

Just to remind that there was almost no way that Sheryl could be cured. Frontier couldn't cure her, Grace couldn't or didn't bother to cure her at all, and Ranka was supposed to be not knowing that she had a v-type infection. (even if Ranka knew, she was not a doctor so she was not supposed to be able to cure Sheryl's disease)

By curing Sheryl's disease, all audiences are satifised (I am a Ranka fan, but I want Sheryl to live too), but at the same time the LT will stay open. That's the choice that director has to make.

Frankly, I thought the ending would be like, they sang together, and Sheryl died after giving everything she had. And few years later, Alto brings Ranka and their child to Sheryl's grave and thank her for everything she did to him (or them). Alto could even say his heart will always have a special place for Sheryl. After giving a fairwell to Sheryl, Alto brings Ranka and their child to new colony fleet for the new journey.

But if he did that, the director probably has to find a new house because ppl would burn his house to ash XD

[Urei]

The reason that forced Hikaru to choose whether to quit the military and settle down with Minmay or stay in the military with Misa was because Misa was leaving Earth indefinitely on the Megaroad. And SDFM Hikaru makes Alto look like the paragon of decisiveness. Not that I bought that Alto was as wishy washy as the other characters claim he is.

Well, I believe it had much more meaning then simply Misa leaving Earth. Hikaru had two choices at that time. One was represented by Minmay and that was - a simple and quiet life on Earth, without any problems, without killing and risking ones life; and the second one by Misa - which was a path that Hikaru chose at the start of SDFM, being a soldier and fighting for others. DYRL presented it more clearly - Minamy, a cheerfull life, easy yet without commitment, Misa - real life full of anguish yet with true feelings. A home or a path of a soldier. Hikaru had the courage to face up to his choice as he understood that Minmay was in fact an immature outlet for his emotions.

Minmay asking to also go along with the Megaroad negates the need to make that choice, and can be seen as a playful challenge "you may have won for now, but if you don't treasure him, I'll steal him from right under you yet", which Misa accepts (like Ranka's challenge to Sheryl, only more tactful). It's only through DYRL and the supplementary unanimated material we got to confirm how that triangle worked out. I think some people who watched Flashback actually thought Hikaru choose Minmay.

Minmay declared that she will go along with them when she finds her true path. They found theirs and I think she felt out of place without her real songs. As long as she had those, she would have had enough reason to stand by their side as the force of Megaroad 01. Without such power she would only drag them down. I don't think she wanted to challenge Misa in any way. She just went out with Megaroad to confirm her own worth, as the third person who because of it's earlier lack lost to another woman.

Personally, I'd rather Kawamori screw the symbology, end episode 25 with the cliffhanger of Grace siccing the Vajra on humanity, and use half of episode 26 to wrap things up cleanly with an epilogue and time skip. But as it is, the open ending was pretty much expected.

I'd like that too. Still, Kawamori wants a new Nissan so he needs a movie/OAV or anything else he can come up with.

[magnuskn]

Frankly, I thought the ending would be like, they sang together, and Sheryl died after giving everything she had. And few years later, Alto brings Ranka and their child to Sheryl's grave and thank her for everything she did to him (or them). Alto could even say his heart will always have a special place for Sheryl. After giving a fairwell to Sheryl, Alto brings Ranka and their child to new colony fleet for the new journey.

There was no way that ending would have happened with the general tone of the series being so light-hearted. I guess you equivocated it with a more serious one, like Blood+.

[justavisitor]

There was no way that ending would have happened with the general tone of the series being so light-hearted. I guess you equivocated it with a more serious one, like Blood+.

Michael died and Cathy's dad also died in the same episode. That episode was not light-hearted at all, so it could have happened...besides, that ending I described is not really that sad. If anything, it's actually more realistic XD (But then, Macross is all about miracle....)

[Tak]

Just to remind that there was almost no way that Sheryl could be cured. Frontier couldn't cure her, Grace couldn't or didn't bother to cure her at all, and Ranka was supposed to be not knowing that she had a v-type infection. (even if Ranka knew, she was not a doctor so she was not supposed to be able to cure Sheryl's disease)

Wrong. I will explain below why Sheryl might be cured.


Frankly, I thought the ending would be like, they sang together, and Sheryl died after giving everything she had. And few years later, Alto brings Ranka and their child to Sheryl's grave and thank her for everything she did to him (or them). Alto could even say his heart will always have a special place for Sheryl. After giving a fairwell to Sheryl, Alto brings Ranka and their child to new colony fleet for the new journey.

Now, first, why do you think Ranka deserves a happy ending? She doesn't. Plain and simple. For all her stupidity, all her immaturity, and all the neglect she has a person, if she really wanted to redeem herself, she should have kamikaze Grace's face and end the war. You know why she was saved at all? Because Sheryl gave a shit about that green haired bitch! While the favor was never returned. Sheryl did not have to do that (she was gonna die, what does she care?). Yet, in order to accommodate Leon's unbelievable stupidity, the responsibility to save humanity in addition to Ranka's immaturity, she had selflessly done far more than what was asked of her. While Ranka had never taken responsibility in the use of her own powers. She had selfishly closed herself in a personal bubble, equating Alto to that of humanity and simply quit when her feelings were simply not reciprocated.

And what was Sheryl's reward in all this? A fucking slap. Why? Because she was giving up? Not only did that scene makes no sense, but it simply goes on to further show just how frustratingly childish Ranka can get (that, along with the salute she did not return only reinforced this notion, if you would claim she saw Alto in the first place). When Sheryl slapped Ranka, it was because the latter could not come back to her senses. When Ranka slapped Sheryl, the latter was being consumed by the grim-reaper himself. Is it not too much to ask a dying person to go on?

You know what I and some Japanese fans expected of the ending? The Nome bloodline to reclaim Sheryl's body and cure her of her disease. If you seen Macross Zero, the Nomes were capable of interacting (with Sara pretty much in control) with the Vajra. Why this was not so in Sheryl's case remains to be answered, because both Sara and Mao had this power.

If I wanted to be serious, I would have the ending structured in that Sheryl is awakened by her Nome bloodline, that in the last moment, she is cured of her V-virus infection. Then, using the power that is left to her, she'd project a fold disturbance so strong that it would virtually slap Ranka silly and force her to wake the fuck up. Ranka, realizing her mistake, would redeem herself by summoning the Vajra to confront Grace's reincarnation, and then fold the Vajra out of this current galaxy with her alongside them. Years later, Sheryl and Alto would be sitting on the grass staring at the sky, reminiscing that moment, with their kids running and playing in the background. Yeah, THAT should have been the fucking ending.


But if he did that, the director probably has to find a new house because ppl would burn his house to ash XD

Good, at least you know how the Japanese fans will react if such treachery is committed. I suggest you head over to some of the Japanese boards once in a while, there is a full anti-Ranka campaign going on.

- Tak (At least Ruri Hoshino is a wonderfully useful moe!)

[justavisitor]

Yeah I watched Macross Zero, and maybe it's the sub I watched, I think that only chosen ppl have bird human characteristic..like at the end only that girl (forgot her name) and Shin fly to nowhere in the space. While Mao is that girl's sister, she didn't go anywhere...If all those villagers were bird human, they would all go to space with that girl and Shin?? and Shin was not supposed to be a bird human at all, but he did receive that invitation to go to nowhere in space...I don't quite get the Macross Zero ending

That's one point. The other point is that the director probably doesn't want get too deep with other series. Paying hompage here and there is nice, but the director still has to pay attention to some audiences who only watch Frontier and nothing else. Telling them Bird Human theory in episode 25 will cause chaos to those audiences since they have no idea what Bird Human is.

(I don't know Japanese so there is no reason to go to japanese forum lol and the one who will burn his house is probably you lol..I kid)

[Tak]

Yeah I watched Macross Zero, and maybe it's the sub I watched, I think that only chosen ppl have bird human characteristic..like at the end only that girl (forgot her name) and Shin fly to nowhere in the space. While Mao is that girl's sister, she didn't go anywhere...If all those villagers were bird human, they would all go to space with that girl and Shin?? and Shin was not supposed to be a bird human at all, but he did receive that invitation to go to nowhere in space...I don't quite get the Macross Zero ending

Mao did not go anywhere because she was able to control her mentality at the time and did not let it go off. Sara on the other hand, allowed her emotions to go freely. Although she had a chance to be saved, the UN SPACY was dumb enough to fire reactive weapons on it, causing damage. In order to prevent the bird to further retaliate against humans, Sara chose the best logical step, that is, to warp it out of Earth. Shinn, of course, wanted to go with her.


That's one point. The other point is that the director probably doesn't want get too deep with other series. Paying hompage here and there is nice, but the director still has to pay attention to some audiences who only watch Frontier and nothing else. Telling them Bird Human theory in episode 25 will cause chaos to those audiences since they have no idea what Bird Human is.

That was what episode 10 was for. Moreover, with all that reference to the Nomes, one would try to connect the dots.


(I don't know Japanese so there is no reason to go to japanese forum lol and the one who will burn his house is probably you lol..I kid)

Oh, I am but one of the candidate, and before its my turn, I'd have to fight against millions of like-minded individuals for the honor.

- Tak

[KiraYamatoFan]

Also, IMO, Ranka as a character isn't quite yet emotionally strong enough to take it and continue singing, unlike Minmay. Similar to why they didn't kill Ozma or Brera off.

How would anybody know unless the producers try something about it? Minmay lost her cousin who left her alone and she loses her love interest in a short amount of time, more than enough to make an emotional wreck out of anybody. Yet, Minmay managed to bail herself out of the hole by becoming a legend as a singer. Don't tell me Ranka would not be able to bail herself out of the hole with a new and single focus, music, if she was brought to the same situation Minmay was in.

We can argue on that. I think SDF ended in a pretty straight forward way.

My feelings exactly. :(

[Jazzrat]

The birdman mystery didnt really play much of an importance in Frontier so it's not much of a big deal for first time Macross watcher.



Oh, I am but one of the candidate, and before its my turn, I'd have to fight against millions of like-minded individuals for the honor.

- Tak

Sheryl Jou ousama no Jutsu is indeed scary. Sharon apple might have enslave the humans in Macross Plus but Sheryl seemed to have enslaved quite a lot of humans in the real world XD

[magnuskn]

Michael died and Cathy's dad also died in the same episode. That episode was not light-hearted at all, so it could have happened...besides, that ending I described is not really that sad. If anything, it's actually more realistic XD (But then, Macross is all about miracle....)

Yeah, the series used a few episodes to build up the tension , and it got a quite melodramatic with Sheryls illness. But otherwise the tone was very light. Some people lost sight of that before the finale, because by then it was do or die for Frontier.

Good, at least you know how the Japanese fans will react if such treachery is committed. I suggest you head over to some of the Japanese boards once in a while, there is a full anti-Ranka campaign going on.

- Tak (At least Ruri Hoshino is a wonderfully useful moe!)

<adopts Jon Steward voice> Please, tell me about this more!

I mean, really? Details! Gimmee!

[Wesley84]

How would anybody know unless the producers try something about it? Minmay lost her cousin who left her alone and she loses her love interest in a short amount of time, more than enough to make an emotional wreck out of anybody. Yet, Minmay managed to bail herself out of the hole by becoming a legend as a singer. Don't tell me Ranka would not be able to bail herself out of the hole with a new and single focus, music, if she was brought to the same situation Minmay was in.



My feelings exactly. :(

Minmay wasn't a love-starved puppy obsessed with an emotionally dead pretty boy.

[Tak]

Yeah, the series used a few episodes to build up the tension , and it got a quite melodramatic with Sheryls illness. But otherwise the tone was very light. Some people lost sight of that before the finale, because by then it was do or die for Frontier.

I actually cannot agree that the tone was light. Well, it was definitely not dark, but it wasn't light. Lets call it realistic, shall we say. Why? Because the key folks survived and others we cared about died.

Light is like Nadesico light. That series was light (and fun), but ruined by a half-assed movie attempting to tread over to the dark side. It was badly written, with a conspiracy plot that made no sense in addition to connections that simply did not work. For example, the Jovians and Terrans working together in as short as two years? How did that work? It was an unfortunate turn for a great franchise, the movie was supposed to help launch a Nadesico II, with a plot rumored to be centering around Akito and Yurika's eventual union. Regretfully for us, according to official sources, plans for a second series went to shit.

I'd hate it if Macross Frontier venture into that familiar ground. I hope it does not continue the series with a movie.

- Tak

[magnuskn]

I actually cannot agree that the tone was light. Well, it was definitely not dark, but it wasn't light. Lets call it realistic, shall we say. Why? Because the key folks survived and others we cared about died.
- Tak

Well, I don´t think "light" means Macross 7 "light", neither. I guess it´s difficult to nail down exactly, but let´s just say that while M-Frontier was realistic a lot of times, it also gave us lots of some slapstick stuff. The infamous ep 8 is of course the most glaring example, but there are numerous instances where the series ventures into it. Compare that to series like Blood+ or Witch Hunter Robin, where the characters nary crack a smile during the whole series.

Well, maybe I should have said that the series doesn´t take itself too seriously all the time, and therefore I didn´t see a tragic ending coming. And everybody who was in the Macrosssuki chat at the time episode 22 aired does know that I was jumping up and down in excitement, yelling "YES!" and "WOOO!", when they showed us that Sheryl has the same crystal-bugs as Ranka, because I already saw it as the way to cure Sheryl with Rankas magic hax.


So, anyways, Tak... what was that with a anti-Ranka movement rallying on the boards in Japan? Want details. ^^

[Joachim]

Personally I think the director has already done the best job to make it a great ending.

Just to remind that there was almost no way that Sheryl could be cured. Frontier couldn't cure her, Grace couldn't or didn't bother to cure her at all, and Ranka was supposed to be not knowing that she had a v-type infection. (even if Ranka knew, she was not a doctor so she was not supposed to be able to cure Sheryl's disease)

By curing Sheryl's disease, all audiences are satifised (I am a Ranka fan, but I want Sheryl to live too), but at the same time the LT will stay open. That's the choice that director has to make.

Frankly, I thought the ending would be like, they sang together, and Sheryl died after giving everything she had. And few years later, Alto brings Ranka and their child to Sheryl's grave and thank her for everything she did to him (or them). Alto could even say his heart will always have a special place for Sheryl. After giving a fairwell to Sheryl, Alto brings Ranka and their child to new colony fleet for the new journey.

But if he did that, the director probably has to find a new house because ppl would burn his house to ash XD

oh sure thats the way you want your ending..

my version is, ranka sacrifices herself to cure sheryl after being saved by alto, and then later on alto and sheryl together with their child go to ranka's grave and then the twin child of sheryl's ask her who is this person mom, then she replied "my rival in song and love and the person who cured me" tha da the end, happily ever after in vajra's home planet.

you don't like it? like i give a damn

[KiraYamatoFan]

Minmay wasn't a love-starved puppy obsessed with an emotionally dead pretty boy.

I guess you'd have said to the puppy let her starve then... something I might not be against.:rolleyes:

[TwilightHack]

I guess you'd have said let her starve then... something I might not be against.:rolleyes:
Hey now, lets not be hasty since DYRL Minmei was win.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Hey now, lets not be hasty since DYRL Minmei was win.

No, I was talking of some green-haired moe since Wesley brought the subject up. Nothing to do with Minmay.:meh:

[KiraYamatoFan]

Now, first, why do you think Ranka deserves a happy ending? She doesn't. Plain and simple. For all her stupidity, all her immaturity, and all the neglect she has a person, if she really wanted to redeem herself, she should have kamikaze Grace's face and end the war. You know why she was saved at all? Because Sheryl gave a shit about that green haired bitch! While the favor was never returned. Sheryl did not have to do that (she was gonna die, what does she care?). Yet, in order to accommodate Leon's unbelievable stupidity, the responsibility to save humanity in addition to Ranka's immaturity, she had selflessly done far more than what was asked of her. While Ranka had never taken responsibility in the use of her own powers. She had selfishly closed herself in a personal bubble, equating Alto to that of humanity and simply quit when her feelings were simply not reciprocated.

CLEAR CUT "NO" FOR A HAPPY ENDING FOR RANKA, INDEED! I was expecting a lot from Ranka when the series started although I was starting to see a potential Minmay when she became a star. All she did in the whole series was to remain stupid and immature like some little bird waiting for mommy to feed in the nest... don't ask a number of people why they feel her character as sh**e in the end.

Sheryl never had any animosity against Ranka and, in fact, she even supported her. The worst of all of that is Ranka not showing any gratefulness nor returning any favor to the people supporting her: selfishness and ungratefulness at their peak. :frustrated: While Sheryl was sacrificing everything she had (including her health) to cheer the people's hearts up, Ranka did the total opposite in times of need. All the flaws Minmay had cost her shot at Hikaru in the TV series, so it's not less to say that Ranka's bigger flaws should clearly slam her chances right against a wall.

And what was Sheryl's reward in all this? A fucking slap. Why? Because she was giving up? Not only did that scene makes no sense, but it simply goes on to further show just how frustratingly childish Ranka can get (that, along with the salute she did not return only reinforced this notion, if you would claim she saw Alto in the first place). When Sheryl slapped Ranka, it was because the latter could not come back to her senses. When Ranka slapped Sheryl, the latter was being consumed by the grim-reaper himself. Is it not too much to ask a dying person to go on?

Hitting someone on the verge of dying was a total lack of class, not to say TOTAL DISRESPECT. All of that on one person who supported her who never ditched her at all, that didn't make any sense ever. Don't tell me otherwise because I will stand with this view until I die. Since we name it, childishness is another sin which should justify losing Alto with a more explicit result.

You know what I and some Japanese fans expected of the ending? The Nome bloodline to reclaim Sheryl's body and cure her of her disease. If you seen Macross Zero, the Nomes were capable of interacting (with Sara pretty much in control) with the Vajra. Why this was not so in Sheryl's case remains to be answered, because both Sara and Mao had this power.

If I wanted to be serious, I would have the ending structured in that Sheryl is awakened by her Nome bloodline, that in the last moment, she is cured of her V-virus infection. Then, using the power that is left to her, she'd project a fold disturbance so strong that it would virtually slap Ranka silly and force her to wake the fuck up. Ranka, realizing her mistake, would redeem herself by summoning the Vajra to confront Grace's reincarnation, and then fold the Vajra out of this current galaxy with her alongside them. Years later, Sheryl and Alto would be sitting on the grass staring at the sky, reminiscing that moment, with their kids running and playing in the background. Yeah, THAT should have been the fucking ending.

Wow! That would have been an awesome finish with Sheryl being awakened by the Nome bloodline in order to restore balance and fight the real enemy. With such power in their blood (since they said in episode 24 that Sheryl inherits the blood), it was opening a new door on how Sheryl would get cured and take everyone with a little more surprise than what was written weeks before about Ranka curing Sheryl.

Also, Ranka getting a harder slap wouldn't have been too much since the first time didn't give much of a result. BTW, it was not too much asked for Ranka to follow on with her decision since she chose the Vajra since episode 21 and it would have been a good fit if she decided to bring on Brera and the Vajra with her to safety before coming back maybe years later.

Good, at least you know how the Japanese fans will react if such treachery is committed. I suggest you head over to some of the Japanese boards once in a while, there is a full anti-Ranka campaign going on.

- Tak (At least Ruri Hoshino is a wonderfully useful moe!)

You know, back in the days of GSD, I was very vicious and hateful on Meyrin after the LT was left unsolved. Watchign Frontier, I never expected emotions would be stirred up that much. Now, I guess I would join that anti-Ranka campaign if I spoke and wrote Japanese.

I guess all the stuff in episode 25 reinforces my hate for moe girls (almost lolis) interfering with a good romance finish we could have had between people who are a good match for each other. Because of these moes, no one has the balls to ditch them hard on the losing end of a love traingle. :mad:

My 2 cents unleashed.

[Urei]

What Ranka needed at the end was self awareness. Alto busted into her isolated princess room and flipped her 'in the name of god, ye not guilty' switch. This was the moment when all her reason went flying. Although I admit that getting depressed in the midst of battle would rather prove the opposite. We would start bashing her for not being able to fight and letting even more people die, as if there was no blood on her hands already. What I'm amazed about is that we actually never get to see any remorse on her side.

Ranka started off as a character that I could take pity on. I admit she had some troubles along her way to becoming a star. What I really dislike when it comes to her is her utter lack of any sort of guilt. Most of her emotions are centered around herself and Alto. Even Brera got the short end of the stick near the end. Ranka didn't deserve the end she got. Kawamori must really hate her as he sacrificed one whole character and it's development to satisfy his no-choice ending.

EDIT. Brera, possesing all his battle potential and technology didn't manage to live up to his sisters genocide abilities. Maybe Ranka should have markings on her Konig Monster for every ship she got to destroy :heh:

[mechabao]

What Ranka needed at the end was self awareness. Alto busted into her isolated princess room and flipped her 'in the name of god, ye not guilty' switch. This was the moment when all her reason went flying. Although I admit that getting depressed in the midst of battle would rather prove the opposite. We would start bashing her for not being able to fight and letting even more people die, as if there was no blood on her hands already. What I'm amazed about is that we actually never get to see any remorse on her side.

Ranka started off as a character that I could take pity on. I admit she had some troubles along her way to becoming a star. What I really dislike when it comes to her is her utter lack of any sort of guilt. Most of her emotions are centered around herself and Alto. Even Brera got the short end of the stick near the end. Ranka didn't deserve the end she got. Kawamori must really hate her as he sacrificed one whole character and it's development to satisfy his no-choice ending.

EDIT. Brera, possesing all his battle potential and technology didn't manage to live up to his sisters genocide abilities. Maybe Ranka should have markings on her Konig Monster for every ship she got to destroy :heh:

If they did that the Monster would have a different paint job by now. :p

[TwilightHack]

If they did that, the Monster would have a different paint job by now. :p
Multiple paint jobs actually...

Probably would have so much paint on it that it wouldn't even be able to get off the deck in space.

[risingstar3110]

Watched the EP at last (Yay) but i failed to understand while everyone is so angry at the ending.

Surely Ranka is the one to turn Vajra back to help Macross F, but she couldn't do it without (like she claimed) Sheryl because with only Ranka, Vajra wouldn't understand how it is to be human. So everyone had their fair share of glory.
The fight was predictable, but IMO quite epic, with limiting copy&paste from old footage.

Now back to the main point of the topic. Maybe because i root for Sheryl/Alto pairing that i acknowledge the result as clear win for Sheryl. Solid evidence? I don't have any except "Alto's confidence before depart in 24" + "the apperance of the earing near ending" + "i won't lose to you"(which in open ending 90% that she lost ).

Overall: a satisfying ending both for storywise and romantic .10/10 for animesuki , 4.5/5 in my own scale =]

[W-General]

Well I raged, because Alto never said it straight on in episode 25, at the end "Sheryl, you are the one I want to be with." For me, it has to be cut and clear about who he picks. Sure he can show all the signs and whatnot, but in the end it will always come down to fan speculation.

I mean. Think about it.

In 24, the epic awesome, lovely, argh I can't think of anymore positive adjectives, Sheryl x Alto scene before he departs, Sheryl said specifically, "Go. I will hear what you say when you come back." And Alto: "I will survive this, and I will tell you my answer when I come back."

Maybe he eventually says it in Macross universe (and picks Sheryl of course), as in, what happens afterwards that we the audience don't see (all in Kawamori's head). But I think us, the hardcore of the most hardcore Sheryl fans, also deserves to see that.

By not showing us Alto's answers, I think it was just a cop-out. Because he said he was going to tell her when he comes back. Now that he's back, TELL HER! ARGHHHH. (damn, I thought I raged enough when I first saw the episode 10 days ago - clearly I am still not over this).

Also I note that the ratio of Sheryl x Alto shippers to Ranka x Alto shippers is fast approaching 5:1. The eyes of the (majority) of the audience are clear - we all can tell Sheryl is the one who deserves to win Alto's heart. Kawamori should recognize the IMMENSE monetary profits to be gained in making a clear-cut, absolute-no-doubt, Sheryl end movie, and do it. Make it happen, Kawamori.

[Minari]

I think it's more like this:

At the End of ep 25.
-When Alto Finally Gets Sheryl Alone-

Alto: Sheryl. . . I'm going to finish what I wanted to say. .. .

Director: CUT~! Save it for the movie

Sheryl: *wants to kill Kawamori*

[W-General]

I think it's more like this:

At the End of ep 25.
-When Alto Finally Gets Sheryl Alone-

Alto: Sheryl. . . I'm going to finish what I wanted to say. .. .

Director: CUT~! Save it for the movie

Sheryl: *wants to kill Kawamori*

Heh if that's the case (Sheryl end movie) then I'll take back any rage I have for Kawamori and worship him as a deity.

[magnuskn]

Heh if that's the case (Sheryl end movie) then I'll take back any rage I have for Kawamori and worship him as a deity.

It´ll be a retelling, but we can hope for a good ending there at least. It´s not that I doubt Alto, but I finally want to stamp "payed" on all those people who still think that Ranka has a shot.

It´s getting incredibly annoying, one can repeat all the clues infinitely, but they won't to listen. Hell, some people even think that Ranka won! I´d like to know where the clues for *that* interpretation come from!

[Minari]

it's confirmed that it's another retelling? D: that blows. I was hoping for a continuation.
I really hate recap movies because it seems like everything is rushed- the only good thing is that the ending is usually more detailed.

[W-General]

it's confirmed that it's another retelling? D: that blows. I was hoping for a continuation.
I really hate recap movies because it seems like everything is rushed- the only good thing is that the ending is usually more detailed.

Well think about it, DYRL is a retelling, and we all know how that turned out =)

[KiraYamatoFan]

Well I raged, because Alto never said it straight on in episode 25, at the end "Sheryl, you are the one I want to be with." For me, it has to be cut and clear about who he picks. Sure he can show all the signs and whatnot, but in the end it will always come down to fan speculation.

I mean. Think about it.

In 24, the epic awesome, lovely, argh I can't think of anymore positive adjectives, Sheryl x Alto scene before he departs, Sheryl said specifically, "Go. I will hear what you say when you come back." And Alto: "I will survive this, and I will tell you my answer when I come back."

Maybe he eventually says it in Macross universe (and picks Sheryl of course), as in, what happens afterwards that we the audience don't see (all in Kawamori's head). But I think us, the hardcore of the most hardcore Sheryl fans, also deserves to see that.

By not showing us Alto's answers, I think it was just a cop-out. Because he said he was going to tell her when he comes back. Now that he's back, TELL HER! ARGHHHH. (damn, I thought I raged enough when I first saw the episode 10 days ago - clearly I am still not over this).

With the number of reactions we got from all around the world and especially Japan, it's clear that all Skull Fairy fans deserve to see the final product of their evolving relationship. That build-up in episode 24 was clearly leading to something MASSIVELY EPIC of a finish with Sheryl getting Alto. After Alto told Sheryl he'd give his answer and left with a smile, he was showing that strong will of returning back to her - something even words are not able to describe. But instead, we had this poor finish. Me neither, I am still not over that disgusting ending. :mad:

Also I note that the ratio of Sheryl x Alto shippers to Ranka x Alto shippers is fast approaching 5:1. The eyes of the (majority) of the audience are clear - we all can tell Sheryl is the one who deserves to win Alto's heart. Kawamori should recognize the IMMENSE monetary profits to be gained in making a clear-cut, absolute-no-doubt, Sheryl end movie, and do it. Make it happen, Kawamori

That much? If that's for real, then Kawamori is looking even more foolish right now. With a ratio of 5:1, it's clear he'd make far and far more money by now selling the series if he gave a clear finish in favor of Sheryl x Alto. :twitch: I don't know what kind of reaction Kawamori would fear (storywise) if Ranka was explicitly shown defeated (not to say dejected) at the sight of losing Alto to Sheryl. It's not like episode 21, showing how mentally unstable Ranka is, would be strong enough of a reason of not doing such ending for her, neither that losing Ranka x Alto fans would hurt the sales that much (they look like to be barely over 16% of the fans according to your ratio).

Honnestly, a recap movie would suck hard as the main foundation is already laid down. :mad: All it needs is a little finish after the events of episode 25 using everything which was not fully told to make something out of it.

[Urei]

That much? If that's for real, then Kawamori is looking even more foolish right now. With a ratio of 5:1, it's clear he'd make far and far more money by now selling the series if he gave a clear finish in favor of Sheryl x Alto. :twitch: I don't know what kind of reaction Kawamori would fear (storywise) if Ranka was explicitly shown defeated (not to say dejected) at the sight of losing Alto to Sheryl. It's not like episode 21, showing how mentally unstable Ranka is, would be a reason of not doing that for real, neither that losing Ranka x Alto fans would hurt the sales that much (they look like to be barely over 16% of the fans according to your ratio.

Now, wouldn't it be a bit cruel for Kawamori to have Ranka lose the competition to Sheryl in the last episode? Let's look at it from dog-eared Ranka perspective.

You're a moe and you know it. You kill a lot of people and you know it. You won't accept it's your fault though, you won't think much about it either. Instead you concentrate on your imaginary knight and decide it's more important to go on a solo mission to the enemy home planet swarming with your potential killers. You get your brother involved as well as let the final boss have it's way with poor soldiers who fight to protect their home world. The mission ends up being another not needed genocide but it's all ok, since the knight comes to rescue you. You revitalize your battle potential and omit a couple of recent facts involving massacring people.

Your so overjoyed that you forget which way is right resulting in thousands of fans posting useless information about 'your salute'. You sing on though, having a clear conscience. When the battle ends you run up to Galaxy Fairy to get sympathy out of her. Unfortunately, you realize she won't let you have your knight because you failed so many times that one live won't just make you look better. You don't give up nevertheless. You boldly state that you have enough qualities to go up the same stairs Sheryl did a while ago. Fortunately for you, the directors sanity was in coma during the production of this episode so actually you get to have a good ending.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Wow! If Ranka read your post, she would get an emotional arrow after reading each single detail you wrote there (reminds me of these light-hearted comedy animes when you see a guy "receiving an arrow" to scream "ouch!" at each statement pulling him down). :heh:

[Urei]

Wow! If Ranka read your post, she would get an emotional arrow after reading each single detail you wrote there (reminds me of these light-hearted comedy animes when you see a guy "receiving an arrow" to scream "ouch!" at each statement pulling him down). :heh:

Yeah, :heh: That or a falling rock would be nice.

Seriously though, I have a grudge against Kawamori for not having Ranka develop her character that much during the series. I know that turning into a more mature person would ruin her 'moe for otaku' battle potential, but seriously. Even if she turned out the way he wanted, even if thats absolutely all he wanted to show about her, then it makes it even more frustrating. That Ranka does not have any right to receive mercy out of anyone.

It would be fine if he wanted to let us peek at her regretful side after all the events of Grace battle calmed down but instead we get to have a remake. Even if he portraits Ranka better this time it still leaves a bad aftertaste about the original version of her.

[magnuskn]

I completely agree that everything was set up for an epic ending... and this still fuels my conviction that there was a last-minute rewrite, by executive fiat. The art is noticeably worse for the last three minutes than the rest in the episode, too.

So my thought is that they delayed the conclusion to include it in the movie. Because if it is a retelling, then they need the additional draw to get people to watch it.

Sadly, the not-definite conclusion makes Michaels death turn out to be quite pointless. This is one of the things which pisses me off most about it, in the end.

[Urei]

I completely agree that everything was set up for an epic ending... and this still fuels my conviction that there was a last-minute rewrite, by executive fiat. The art is noticeably worse for the last three minutes than the rest in the episode, too.

So my thought is that they delayed the conclusion to include it in the movie. Because if it is a retelling, then they need the additional draw to get people to watch it.

Sadly, the not-definite conclusion makes Michaels death turn out to be quite pointless. This is one of the things which pisses me off most about it, in the end.

Yes, you've made a good point about conclusion. It would be nice if Kawamori really planned to do something like this, even though this has never been done earlier. Still, we got to see many indications that Sheryl was the one who won in the end. Although I refrain from making any statements about it as character reasoning seemed really inconsistent in some parts at the end, I really would like to believe that's the case.

Right now it's hard to say if Kawamori wanted to give us an answer in hints or just wanted to make it more ambiguous. From what he said the later option seems more probable.

[KiraYamatoFan]

I completely agree that everything was set up for an epic ending... and this still fuels my conviction that there was a last-minute rewrite, by executive fiat. The art is noticeably worse for the last three minutes than the rest in the episode, too.

So my thought is that they delayed the conclusion to include it in the movie. Because if it is a retelling, then they need the additional draw to get people to watch it.

Sadly, the not-definite conclusion makes Michaels death turn out to be quite pointless. This is one of the things which pisses me off most about it, in the end.

Only some total idiot would turn down an epic finish IMO to put up something like this, no matter what the reason is. I also don't believe setting this conclusion in the movie is a clever idea when other avenues can be explored.

Also, it would be the worst of disrespects to a well-loved character if it comes down to a not-definite conclusion. :( After everything Michael said, the least to be done would be to find resolution on who is Alto's loved one.

[magnuskn]

Only some total idiot would turn down an epic finish IMO to put up something like this, no matter what the reason is. I also don't believe setting this conclusion in the movie is a clever idea when other avenues can be explored.

Or a greedy executive. ^^

Also, it would be the worst of disrespects to a well-loved character if it comes down to a not-definite conclusion. :( After everything Michael said, the least to be done would be to find resolution on who is Alto's loved one.

100% agreed. The whole point of Michaels death seemed to be to make Alto move his ass and decide who he wants to be with. Of course he *did* make a decision, IMO, but they really botched making it clear. Again, greedy executives come to mind.

[Von Himmel]

I completely agree that everything was set up for an epic ending... and this still fuels my conviction that there was a last-minute rewrite, by executive fiat. The art is noticeably worse for the last three minutes than the rest in the episode, too.
Which reminds me, maybe their budget got cut off or something. Perhaps Kawamori wanted to prepared some EPIC conclusion for the LT, but he can't do it because their budget was cut and the episode was limited.
Maybe he wanted to tell more, but because rather than having it the way he not wanted to be, he rather left us with this crappy ending D:

[Urei]

As I said, people believe there was a conclusive ending to Frontier in episode 25. There was no statement from Alto though. With everything that happened up until the final part of the story it's hard to believe that it all went down the drain when Ranka was rescued. Hints here and there are quite conclusive if you ask me.

Nevertheless, hints are not something a dedicated Macross fan should be presented with. "I won't lose" statement is not something you put in the ending if you are completely satisfied with it. Furthermore, you don't end it on such an optimistic note with everyone happy when one of the characters obviously needs an explanation as to why she is permitted to be present on the planet with everyone else. It's a makeshift ending. SDFM managed to explore life after battle and present viewers with the drama that Frontier lacks.

Maybe that's why this remake is being produced. Heck, one reason is money obviously.

[magnuskn]

Maybe that's why this remake is being produced. Heck, one reason is money obviously.

To be honest, unless it contains a definite resolution to the romance, I don´t see any other reason besides making money for the movies existance.

Unless Kawamori is admitting that he wasn´t satisfied with the show in some way.

[TwilightHack]

All I have to say is don't get your hopes too high. We've already seen SK be more than willing to troll us.

Though at the expense of his pocketbook I think.

[Urei]

The truth is that we really don't know the reason behind this movie accept for the money or possibility of it simply being another Kawamori homage. Any statement about the movie from Kawamori can give us some more insight on the motivation but unfortunately, nothing's been said up till now.

[magnuskn]

The truth is that we really don't know the reason behind this movie accept for the money or possibility of it simply being another Kawamori homage. Any statement about the movie from Kawamori can give us some more insight on the motivation but unfortunately, nothing's been said up till now.

That said, when is the next round of magazines out? There should be something in them, after the series so recently finished, right?

[SymphonicRain]

Personally, I prefer the movie to be simply a re-enactment of the entire episode 25 of what it is supposed to develop and end canocally. One that lasts for 1.5 hours instead of a rushed 30 minutes.

Because right now, episode 25 made up my mind that Macross F, unfortunately is simply a forgettable series with an exception of the creation of an awesome female character.

[BetoJR]

There should be.
And I still want to know the entirety of that excerpt that's been making the rounds here... too much truncated text for us to actually gather some intel. :D

[abynormal]

Personally, I've already decided what the resolution is. After the events in episode 24, and Ranka's body language at the end of 25, Sheryl is most definitely in the romantic lead. It's not the epic conclusion I was hoping for, but I'm willing to compromise to keep from diminishing how much I've enjoyed this series.

[magnuskn]

Personally, I've already decided what the resolution is. After the events in episode 24, and Ranka's body language at the end of 25, Sheryl is most definitely in the romantic lead. It's not the epic conclusion I was hoping for, but I'm willing to compromise to keep from diminishing how much I've enjoyed this series.

Same here. There were enough clues, hell, outright statements, IMO, to easily decide that Sheryl won. One only has to look at the situation the three are left in. How exactly is Ranka getting into the romance again, besides trying to be a spoiler? Demanding an equal share of Alto? Psssht. :rolleyes:

[Zaku_II]

Personally, I prefer the movie to be simply a re-enactment of the entire episode 25 of what it is supposed to develop and end canocally. One that lasts for 1.5 hours instead of a rushed 30 minutes.

Because right now, episode 25 made up my mind that Macross F, unfortunately is simply a forgettable series with an exception of the creation of an awesome female character.

I compart this opinion. The ending it's the only reason why I don't give a 10 to the overal series, only a 9.

With more development in the resolution of plot it could be too much better (even with the open LT).

On the other hand if the staff privilege the Love triangle over the plot (like almost all the show) its necessary a definitive ending to LT, and could be forgive the rushed ep 25.

[forgottendiary]

How exactly is Ranka getting into the romance again, besides trying to be a spoiler? Demanding an equal share of Alto? Psssht. :rolleyes:

She'll most likely cry/emo/moe her way into it (or something).

Alto-kun, save my heart.

:heh::heh::heh:

[magnuskn]

She'll most likely cry/emo/moe her way into it (or something).

Alto-kun, save my heart.

:heh::heh::heh:

Which, in given the light tone of her challenge to Sheryl, would be a mean and underhanded tactic. So, nix that. Anything else she got left? :D

[Urei]

Bribe the staff of the movie with Nyan Nyan buns? :heh:

[magnuskn]

Bribe the staff of the movie with Nyan Nyan buns? :heh:

Well, I was referring to how she might pursue her challenge to Sheryl to not lose Alto to her. ;)

[Urei]

Well, if there will ever be a continuation, which is doubtful because of the - resolution in the movie (maybe) statement, Kawamori might have her change a bit in months / years following the end of the series.

I was and always will be a supporter of a continuation story, as there are simply too many things left unanswered. Ranka might change her ways a little, gain a different outlook on life because of the events with Grace and grow into a suitable opponent. Then again, this would erase her unique personality that her fans adore so much.

I say it's impossible without turning Ranka into Sheryl no.2 It's a fact that people change with time. Ordeals they go through rearrange their values and shape their perspectives. Alto and Sheryl changed but Ranka remained the same. A moe character deserves a moe lover lover . :heh:

[forgottendiary]

Which, in given the light tone of her challenge to Sheryl, would be a mean and underhanded tactic. So, nix that. Anything else she got left? :D

But isn't that the only thing she has left? XD Oh wait, she can sing Ai Mo for the nth time, just in case. :heh::heh::heh::heh::heh:

And then and then if it does, for some reason, work, it will be Alto's turn to sing. However, instead of him singing, "ore no kanojou wa yousei", it'll be "ore no kanojou wa inu-mimi ga aru"

XDDDDD

[magnuskn]

But isn't that the only thing she has left? XD Oh wait, she can sing Ai Mo for the nth time, just in case. :heh::heh::heh::heh::heh:

If there is ever a continuation of the series ( I´d guess in OVAs ), then there are two ways I can see Ranka getting a chance.

a.) They basically ignore the ep 18 - 24 build-up and really go down the road that Alto didn´t really love Sheryl. That´d destroy the character of Alto.

b.) They make Ranka use underhanded tactics to drive a wedge between Sheryl and Alto. That´d destroy the character of Ranka (even more).

[kujoe]

Hey, I like Aimo. In fact, that's Ranka's best song... though that's probably not saying much when I don't really care about her other songs. Too sugary.

As for the movie, I'm a Sheryl fan first of all, so if good Ranka character development would be there at the cost of Sheryl's, then I'd still be disappointed. That's not an improvement at all. Heck, that would mean an admission that Ranka practically sucks in the series.

abynormal makes a good point. Despite Alto choosing his wings, we're not sure what that exactly means due to episode 24—which is the closest thing to a love confession from Alto ever. I mean, we know that Sheryl and Ranka mean a lot to him, but even so, there's no way he can treat the girls in the same way after all that transpires. Still, as Kawamori has willed it, the love triangle is as resolved as it's ever going to be.

[Von Himmel]

Wha-? The 'neko no nikki' song is kawaii, right ? 0.o;;

a.) They basically ignore the ep 18 - 24 build-up and really go down the road that Alto didn´t really love Sheryl. That´d destroy the character of Alto.

b.) They make Ranka use underhanded tactics to drive a wedge between Sheryl and Alto. That´d destroy the character of Ranka (even more).
Well, he could make it up in a single and short summary at the beginning of the movie. . .The summary claims that after several year after the last battle, Alto spends too much time with Ranka and. . -.-a

I was and always will be a supporter of a continuation story, as there are simply too many things left unanswered. Ranka might change her ways a little, gain a different outlook on life because of the events with Grace and grow into a suitable opponent. Then again, this would erase her unique personality that her fans adore so much.
I just hope that they'll increase the flag. I found it less than it should have been. . Yes, for both of them -.-a Maybe I'm just too demanding, but oh well. .

Also , it'll be nice if they'll explain more of Birla's background and Grace.

[Irisiel]

'kay, with all the romance hijacking in this thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=72077), I thought that maybe we should move to this one as not to upset the people not wanting to wade through romance arguments to get movie news.

So, lets continue the conversation?

[justavisitor]

The ending is a close end lol. Polygamy ending. There is no law that states Frontier doesn't allow polygamy. Keep in mind that after human beings meet aliean, culture can be changed. Besides, they need to keep up the birth rate, becoz like you said, who knows when the virus will strike the ship? So it's very likely that polygamy is allowed. human can marry with Zen and now even Vajra XD

It's natural that ppl want sole attention from the loved one, but hey, it's Alto who makes the call since girls need him more. If polygamy is allowed, and Alto says "I want both (you are both my wings)". To Sheryl and Ranka, they either take it or leave it.

From my viewpoints, AltoXRankaXSheryl in the end. And now Ranka and Sheryl are fighting to get a more dominant position. But those three ppl live happily ever after and forever.

Good End XD

That's my final final take on this issue.

[Father Hentai]

Depends on how the movie is to start. But thinking someone will marry a bug... ewww.

[BetoJR]

@Irisiel: Please do. But don't expect much success with the opposing side, tho. We have been around this little circle before, you know.

But on the topic you brought up, of Alto's indecisiveness: really, why do you claim him to be indecisive? When throughout the series he's been shown as a rather opinionated young man who doesn't back down from his decisions, even if they are not exactly easy to live with? I mean, leaving a clearly wealthy and respected home, joining a mercenary crew and fighting very scary aliens... they are not the decisions of a weak-minded person, in my opinion.
Just because he didn't clearly choose any one of the girls? Maybe he doesn't want to? Maybe he did, and we just didn't see it? Maybe, like Kawamori seems to prefer, he wants them both? The point of the matter is: we just don't know. The series ended without a response. But that's not really enough to pin the character as an indecisive, spineless little pond-scum, like some people want to. This was not one of those sucky harem animes, after all. :D

@justavisitor: You seem to make numerous final posts, don't you? :heh:

[Irisiel]

The ending is a close end lol. Polygamy ending. There is no law that states Frontier doesn't allow polygamy. Keep in mind that after human beings meet aliean, culture can be changed. Besides, they need to keep up the birth rate, becoz like you said, who knows when the virus will strike the ship? So it's very likely that polygamy is allowed. human can marry with Zen and now even Vajra XD

It's natural that ppl want sole attention from the loved one, but hey, it's Alto who makes the call since girls need him more. If polygamy is allowed, and Alto says "I want both (you are both my wings)". To Sheryl and Ranka, they either take it or leave it.

From my viewpoints, AltoXRankaXSheryl in the end. And now Ranka and Sheryl are fighting to get a more dominant position. But those three ppl live happily ever after and forever.

Good End XD

That's my final final take on this issue.

Well, since they already have interspecies marriages, I'm sure that polygamy might be legal as well.

*Imagines Alto having to do the Sakura-hime one more time, Sheryl and Ranka has front row seats.*

Sheryl&Ranka: Our boyfriend is prettier than us!

Though by now, the news that Alto Saotome, THE Sakura-hime, is being courted by both Sheryl Nome and Ranka Lee, should drive the paparazzi crazy. Why, oh why didn't the creators think of that (imagine all the funny situations our heroes could get in, trying to avoid being stalked 24/7).

@BetoJR

Okay, so he isn't indecisive when he has made a decision. I just think that he needs a lot of pushing to decide to make a decision. But mostly, I think it's him being unable to clearly formulate his decisions to others.

[justavisitor]

Well, if tech can microize the Zen, they can humanize the bug XD, or bugize the humans XD

Really, why it has to be 1 on 1? I mean, culture can be easily changed, and they have the interaction with other Alien now. I fully support Director's view that we are tied by our concepts in our time. Hiraku had to choose because their culture were still similiar to us. But with the space journey era begins and the importance to keep up the birth rate. Polygamy is an acceptable option.

Girls fight for man's sole attention is natural. Same goes for man. But in this case, it's Alto who makes the call because he is needed more and he likes both girls. There is no compeitor who wants to date Sheryl or Ranka. Alto cannot be in a better position, from male's standpoints XD.

Is it really this hard to accept AltoXRankaXSheryl ????XD

Edit: @BetoJR, I know...can't help it....I am trying my hardest to post less...may I have the strength to resist posting

[Father Hentai]

In some countries. yes. polygamy is not promoted or not openly welcomed in christened countries. there may be exceptions but officially not really accepted. this is just from the point of the church or a religion. if there are no such in things in the time scale of macross (which i doubt) then polygamy is possible and i would welcome it. but i guess both girls are going to have a problem with that sharing the same boy in the same bed during the same time with the same during urgent of *thinking of a better word* affection.

i do not think that both are ecchi/hentai enough to do that. at least until the end of the series.

[BetoJR]

Dude, where's the fun in not posting? :D

And I'd be all for a threesome ending, but I'd still prefer it to be clearly stated as to be that way. Again, hope the movie has a clear resolution to the LT - even if I didn't really mind the original.

And, erm... I guess we should leave their private behavior private, wouldn't you say? :heh:

[Father Hentai]

hey, who started that with polygamy? SK himself so why not having one or x thought(s) of their privacies :P

[BetoJR]

Yeah, but The Hory Froating Head can do it all he wants. As long as he keeps churning out more Macross for us. :D

[SethEng]

I'm not entirely sure why there's some assumption that Frontier would allow polygamy just because we don't see anyone saying that they don't. Kawamori aside, the culture of the Macross universe, in general, is an extension of the Macross survivors, which seems mostly American and Japanese. Neither of those cultures view polygamy in a particularly favorable light, nor does there seem to be a huge male/female imbalance which might lead to them adopting polygamy.

Never mind that the characters themselves probably wouldn't be for it. Alto was raised about as hardcore traditional Japanese as you can get on a giant colony ship, Sheryl's never given any indication that she was willing to share Alto like that. Now maybe Ranka would be, but given her obsessiveness over Alto, I'd expect her to go all Yandere and Nice Boat Alto and Sheryl.

Really, remember Occam's Razor. It's not always right, but it's a handy guide. And just because Kawamori is a dirty hippy doesn't mean his universe reflects that either.

[kujoe]

Alto "chooses" the sky, and that's not exactly Sheryl or Ranka, or even both. Even Ranka is determined not to lose to Sheryl while the latter accepts the challenge.

Kawamori may like polygamy all he wants, but oddly enough that's not exactly written into the ending that was conjured up. That, and apparently the so-called hippy himself said that it's only natural for Alto to be busy saving people during wartime, and that he will make a decision "one day."

I don't know... Sounds to me that he just contradicted himself somewhat.

[BetoJR]

Oh, he contradicts himself all the time. We shouldn't really pay much attention to what he says in interviews - more to what's actually presented in the animes themselves. :D

Right now, it's open to interpretation. Maybe the movie(s) will change that, but I, for one, am not holding my breath. Just hope for some fine entertainment.

[Father Hentai]

it's an open end with a tendency towards Sheryl as they already live together. Still Ranka still see a chance if both may break up. But what Ranka has now is confidence in continuing her career without help of Sheryl. There is also a equal scene at the end of Macross where Minmey raised the notice towards Misa. You can say that that was a kind of challenging too. Still it is friendly and that is why in Macross F Ranka and Sheryl can laugh about the competetion between both.

If Alto really flew away, she would not have a relaxed smile in her face. She is more happy that this time it was also her chance to give him the Sky he wished for.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I simply cannot understand Sheryl fans who think it's obvious that Alto prefers Sheryl. Alto was consistently inconsistent, finding ways to make both girls think he preferred the other, and being willing to devote himself to whichever was on his mind at the time: "I'll stay with you" -- "She is who got me to fly and I will rescue her." The so-called development in the late middle chapters was just because Sheryl was there. Alto was far from clear even then. When Ranka saw him holding Sheryl on the roof and fled, Sheryl had just tricked him into it. He was not expressing anything deep.

As I saw it, he was at least as devoted to Ranka as to Sheryl. Of course, I am as much a Ranka shipper as these hordes are Sheryl shippers. We choose the girl we prefer ourselves, as far as I can see.

Polygamy ending is reasonable. Ranka likes Sheryl, too. I find S aggressive and manipulative, but she has problems, herself, so I can't really blame her. If the director said it, there is no reason to doubt it is possible, whatever we think of his ability to craft a story. To tell the truth, I have trouble taking any of these characters seriously, except maybe Klan, since the writing is so aimless.

Personally, I almost always prefer the weaker character, the one who has more difficulty coping. Others prefer the opposite. Fair enough. But I don't think it's right to blame poor Ranka for her weakness. Imagine yourself in a similar situation, a refugee who has lost your family, barely keeping your psychology together, living and working with a family in a new home. You suddenly find yourself falling in love with a fly-boy, and also with a talent that makes you the supposed savior of your land. In a shounen anime, I guess this should seem simple. But in life, it wouldn't be simple at all. She may make some poor decisions, but so have we all.

[Tak]

Sheryl had just tricked him into it. He was not expressing anything deep.

That statement is so far from the truth its not even funny. It simply goes to show that you either select the scenes that pertain to your shipping or chose to forget those that would otherwise endanger it. Watch it again!


Imagine yourself in a similar situation, a refugee who has lost your family, barely keeping your psychology together, living and working with a family in a new home. You suddenly find yourself falling in love with a fly-boy, and also with a talent that makes you the supposed savior of your land. In a shounen anime, I guess this should seem simple. But in life, it wouldn't be simple at all. She may make some poor decisions, but so have we all.

And imagine yourself as a refugee who had lost her family, dumped into a colony with nobody to rely on while picking trash for a living, then pretty much forced to live a lie and never had the benefit of a new family or a new home.

Suddenly she found herself in a difficult situation, with everyone around her abandoning her, without no one to rely upon, not even Mr. Fly-boy (until 22). But what did she do? Did she collapse and cry foul while raging with suicidal tendencies? Or did she not stand on her two fucking feet and relive her last breath to the fullest while assuming the responsibilities of the one supposedly with powers?

Yeah, Ranka had nothing to bitch about, Sheryl gone through everything Ranka did and more (except she never went "kill me now! I wanna die *sniff*").

Give me a fucking break.

- Tak

[justavisitor]

Calm down, Tak

Actually Sheryl did collapse too, in the scene where Alto's bro brought a lifeless Sheryl (She was sick both phyically and mentally) to the taxi....

Ranka and Sheryl both have the moment feeling confused. Ranka chooses to go to Vajra planet because only she has the weird connection to Vajra, while Sheryl stays and sings. Both made the best choice under their unique condition.

Oops, this is romance thread, I had better stop making off-topic comment XD

[Tak]

Calm down, Tak
Actually Sheryl did collapse too, in the scene where Alto's bro brought a lifeless Sheryl (She was sick both phyically and mentally) to the taxi....


Er, Sheryl collapsed because she was gee, really fucking sick? Due to actually having a fucking disease?

Ranka was never remotely unhealthy physically at any given point. So please don't force me to make this obvious comparison again.

- Tak (and I really don't want to revisit the part where I tear Ranka apart, again)

[justavisitor]

lol, I was simply refereing to your "Did she collapse" statment. Sheryl did collapse, and now you are making new condition for the poster to follow.

Besides, that collapse from Sheryl was more because of mental rather than physical (can't remember too much detail, not sure about this)

[BetoJR]

When Ranka saw him holding Sheryl on the roof and fled, Sheryl had just tricked him into it. He was not expressing anything deep.
As I remember it, Sheryl merely slipped (she felt dizzy or something) and he just happened to be there to hold her. She didn't trick him into anything.

Could I be wrong? Sure, but I don't think so.

And, justavisitor, please stop embarrassing yourself. If you're not sure about something, don't state it as fact. Sheryl was sick. All of her collapses were because of the V-type disease. No matter how you look at it, Sheryl had it tougher than Ranka. Now, if that's fair or not, I don't know. But it's how the series played out, so...

[Tak]

lol, I was simply refereing to your "Did she collapse" statment. Sheryl did collapse, and now you are making new condition for the poster to follow.


We are comparing collapse, but the question is, due to what?

Nobody would just collapse for no reason. Sheryl was challenged physically and mentally at that point, who not only found out she was living a semi-lie, but she was about to die. Her situation is absolutely incomparable to Ranka's "Dammit, why can't I live in my own fantasy, I wanna die *waaaahhhhh!!!!*". Don't give me that bullshit, please.

- Tak

[justavisitor]

@BetoJR

I don't know which post you are looking at, where did I commit the unforgivable mistake as you mentioned?? I would be kindly to point out the misunderstanding

Well, guess you are clearly not in a good mood today. But you don't need to use me as a target to let go of your anger.....

[Father Hentai]

Personally, I almost always prefer the weaker character, the one who has more difficulty coping. Others prefer the opposite. Fair enough. But I don't think it's right to blame poor Ranka for her weakness. Imagine yourself in a similar situation, a refugee who has lost your family, barely keeping your psychology together, living and working with a family in a new home. You suddenly find yourself falling in love with a fly-boy, and also with a talent that makes you the supposed savior of your land. In a shounen anime, I guess this should seem simple. But in life, it wouldn't be simple at all. She may make some poor decisions, but so have we all.

Welcome to the world of Macross where the cute girls fall in love with the fly-boy and create a curse that they will have to sing hell out of their voice to find attention to the public. just kidding with the last words but still macross is about flyboys, nice ladies, a fight for love and attention and last but not least peace by a song.

[herbert]

@BetoJR

I don't know which post you are looking at, where did I commit the unforgivable mistake as you mentioned?? I would be kindly to point out the misunderstanding

Well, guess you are clearly not in a good mood today. But you don't need to use me as a target to let go of your anger.....

Let me help you at understanding. This is what I strongly believe BetoJR refered to. If you don't remember then please keep yourself quiet.
Besides, that collapse from Sheryl was more because of mental rather than physical (can't remember too much detail, not sure about this)

[BetoJR]

I don't know which post you are looking at, where did I commit the unforgivable mistake as you mentioned?? I would be kindly to point out the misunderstanding
Well, guess you are clearly not in a good mood today. But you don't need to use me as a target to let go of your anger.....
I'm not angry, bub. Don't assume, it makes an ass of u and me. :heh:
If you really need me to point, here, I will:
Besides, that collapse from Sheryl was more because of mental rather than physical (can't remember too much detail, not sure about this)
That's what I was talking about. I really did think it was quite clear in the way that I wrote my original response, that I was talking about your failed assumption of something you were not even sure.
Maybe you'd better re-read it, and not misunderstand my intentions? And, please, quit with the persecuted shtick. I'm not out to make you cry or anything...

Edit: Shoot, herbert beat me to it. :D

[justavisitor]

Let me help you at understanding. This is what I strongly believe BetoJR refered to. If you don't remember then please keep yourself quiet.

Originally Posted by justavisitor
Besides, that collapse from Sheryl was more because of mental rather than physical (can't remember too much detail, not sure about this)

I already kind enough to list it clearly in the bracket....:heh: There is no way to please you guys :confused:

I sincerely hope that statement is not the cause to get BetoJR out of control...he is getting too emotional

Edit: BetoJR, you post while I am typing, I didn't see your statement when I post

[Tak]

We should spread the word...

Ranka supporters!

A ring of DESTRUCTION surrounds your wretched fan-base!

ABANDON YOUR POSTS!

ABANDON YOUR HOMES!

ABANDON ALL HOPE!!!

URRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Now thatss getting out of control.

- Tak

[BetoJR]

justavisitor, dude (you are a dude, right?), there's hardly anything on these boards that could get me "emotional" as you try to imply. The only thing that gets a rise out of me are puny cowardly people who negatively rep someone for disagreeing with them. And not even all that much.

So, again, quit your whining. Or this will be the last time I reply to you.

[herbert]

Great, just tell us next time you saw Sheryl has attempted to murder Ranka but you can't remember when and where you saw it happened (maybe a fan-art or sort).

[justavisitor]

.......

What I said is in the episode, she did collapse, but I am not sure how big the role mental has contributed to this. And in my opinion, I think mental is the bigger reason to cause her collapse. I already play it down in order to avoid chaos (which obviously isn't the case).

The analogy you suggest is not in the episode, it's totally out of the blue.

all i can say is, sigh

[BetoJR]

Yeah, you're right. Sigh...

Head-butts the wall ~ repeatedly...

[Tsuchiro]

Great, just tell us next time you saw Sheryl has attempted to murder Ranka but you can't remember when and where you saw it happened (maybe a fan-art or sort).

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk42/Tsuchiros/Rankadeath2px2.jpg?t=1226974560


just for the lols

[raile]

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk42/Tsuchiros/Rankadeath2px2.jpg?t=1226974560


just for the lols

:p:p:p

This I like.

XD

[Tak]

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk42/Tsuchiros/Rankadeath2px2.jpg?t=1226974560


just for the lols

Ah, I completely forgot about Wolfie's work... oh man, I have sinned so hard.

- Tak

[HazardNights]

Shouldn't this thread be titled "Romance in Macross Frontier"? That's all that it's in the poll, Macross Frontier characters. Very misleading.

[Tak]

Shouldn't this thread be titled "Romance in Macross Frontier"? That's all that it's in the poll, Macross Frontier characters. Very misleading.

Well, the problem is really, that the Frontier 'coupling' has yet to be resolved. While for everything else, with the sole exception to the Basara question, is pretty much a done deal :)

- Tak

[zalem]

When Ranka saw him holding Sheryl on the roof and fled, Sheryl had just tricked him into it. He was not expressing anything deep.



What? Where on earth did you get that from? She was feeling ill and slipped. He chose not to be an ass and decided to help her. She didn't trick anyone into anything.

I do agree about Alto being consistently inconsistent though. He is very dense about this love business. He didn't pick one girl over the other in the end imho. It's annoying for some, but it's what we're stuck with unless/until we get resolution from the movie. I'm doubtful on that point though...

[Urei]

I do agree about Alto being consistently inconsistent though. He is very dense about this love business. He didn't pick one girl over the other in the end imho. It's annoying for some, but it's what we're stuck with unless/until we get resolution from the movie. I'm doubtful on that point though...

We didn't see him making an actual choice at the end. Some of us can argue that there is little to no doubt about 'the choice' or "future choice", as Kawamori said. There was a statement that the resolution will be shown in the movie. I really hope we'll get some proper insight.

@justavisitor

I do really hope Ranka will get her development done more extensively in the movie. I'm not worried about the time it will take because a good director can show as much story or any sort of development in the movie as in the time she had in the series. It's a question of proper management.

[herbert]

What? Where on earth did you get that from? She was feeling ill and slipped. He chose not to be an ass and decided to help her. She didn't trick anyone into anything.

I do agree about Alto being consistently inconsistent though. He is very dense about this love business. He didn't pick one girl over the other in the end imho. It's annoying for some, but it's what we're stuck with unless/until we get resolution from the movie. I'm doubtful on that point though...Isn't that obvious? He or she either "spoke the truth" or "can't remember too much detail, not sure about this."

[kujoe]

What I said is in the episode, she did collapse, but I am not sure how big the role mental has contributed to this. And in my opinion, I think mental is the bigger reason to cause her collapse. I already play it down in order to avoid chaos (which obviously isn't the case).
Ok, I'm just curious, and I am going to regret asking this... but what do you exactly mean by "mental"? You mean, she was crazy and she tricked Alto into catching her for the sake of laughs?

I mean, seriously... If the scenes and plot points about Sheryl getting briefed about her condition, and how she was selected to replace Ranka as the battle songstress due to the side effects of her illness were any indication, then I'd say that she was definitely physically sick. Even if I were to ship Ranka, I'd be blind not see this.

In fact, I even remember you making this whole deal thinking that Sheryl didn't check her condition for possible complications or how contagious it was. Then you all of a sudden, you say her condition was largely "mental" in nature? Am I missing something here? Contradiction much?

If by "mental" you mean a state of mind wherein she felt hopeless or despair because of her circumstances, then you're not using the right word.

[justavisitor]

Ok, I'm just curious, and I am going to regret asking this... but what do you exactly mean by "mental"? You mean, she was crazy and she tricked Alto into catching her for the sake of laughs?

I mean, seriously... If the scenes and plot points about Sheryl getting briefed about her condition, and how she was selected to replace Ranka as the battle songstress due to the side effects of her illness were any indication, then I'd say that she was definitely physically sick. Even if I were to ship Ranka, I'd be blind not see this.

In fact, I even remember you making this whole deal thinking that Sheryl didn't check her condition for possible complications or how contagious it was. Then you all of a sudden, you say her condition was largely "mental" in nature? Am I missing something here? Contradiction much?

If by "mental" you mean a state of mind wherein she felt hopeless or despair because of her circumstances, then you're not using the right word.

Thanks you for asking and give me a chance to clarify!!!

"The collapse scene" I mentioned eariler is the scene that she walked alone in the rain, looking at Ranka poster, then she collapsed due to her physical conditions and the mental shock from Grace and her declining career. She collapsed in the street and got saved by Alto's bro to the taxi....I was not refering the scene where she fell into Alto's arm...I guess ppl are disagreeing with me saying that her collapse was only due to sickness while I say it's due to the mental stress as well...I never thought ppl would misunderstood it to the different scene. Maybe the misunderstanding starts here :)

That Sheryl body check is just the example that it's easy to pick mistakes from character in the anime (PPl at that time were very critical on Ranka's every move and hence I raised the exampe of Sheryl) and I clearly, clearly, and very clearly said that I don't blame Sheryl for those little issue because it's anime, not real life.

I know many ppl in here already have a negative feeling as soon as they read the first letter of my post. But if you read the whole thing (kujoe, sorry for using you as an example, but you only remember that I used that Sheryl body check example, yet you forgot I clearly stated that I don't blame Sheryl for this), I hope you will get a different opinion to me as I always try to not play it mean.

Edit: Since I was refering to the taxi scene, I never thought the word "mental" would have any other meaning than mental stress or mental shock or mental abuse. I don't know ppl actually think I was refering to the "Sheryl fell into Alto's arm" scene. Hope it will clear many misunderstanding between me and others

[kujoe]

I know many ppl in here already have a negative feeling as soon as they read the first letter of my post. But if you read the whole thing (kujoe, sorry for using you as an example, but you only remember that I used that Sheryl body check example, yet you forgot I clearly stated that I don't blame Sheryl for this), I hope you will get a different opinion to me as I always try to not play it mean.
Oh no, I do remember that, but it's assumed that she goes through a check up. But you're right, she doesn't undergo it right after reacting to the fact. It makes sense considering the direness of it all, and how it has been a moment of shock for her. Instead, she goes through it a bit later on. Even in real life, this would make sense for someone who loses practically everything and is betrayed all in one day.

The reason for mentioning this is just to point out a possible contradiction on your part.

"The collapse scene" I mentioned eariler is the scene that she walked alone in the rain, looking at Ranka poster, then she collapsed due to her physical conditions and the mental shock from Grace and her declining career. She collapsed in the street and got saved by Alto's bro to the taxi....I was not refering the scene where she fell into Alto's arm...I guess ppl are disagreeing with me saying that her collapse was only due to sickness while I say it's due to the mental stress as well...I never thought ppl would misunderstood it to the different scene. Maybe the misunderstanding starts here :)

. . . .

Edit: Since I was refering to the taxi scene, I never thought the word "mental" would have any other meaning than mental stress or mental shock or mental abuse. I don't know ppl actually think I was refering to the "Sheryl fell into Alto's arm" scene. Hope it will clear many misunderstanding between me and others
Ok, that makes it clearer now. Glad you cleared that up. I admit, I was confused as well. Yes, the taxi scene you mentioned involves a lot of things, but her condition in this particular scene is indeed brought about by mental stress and exhaustion due to her illness and weak state.

[magnuskn]

Let me help you at understanding. This is what I strongly believe BetoJR refered to. If you don't remember then please keep yourself quiet.

But, y'know, checking if what he says is accurate, that would take the fun out of being a Ranka-shipper. :D

[Swampstorm]

I think that the term "mental stress" is a bit too vague and all-encompassing; we can narrow this down quite a bit. The breakdown in episode eighteen specifically has to do with Sheryl losing her reason to fight.

During her talk with Grace earlier in the episode, Sheryl showed that she had the fortitude to build her career back from scratch, with or without help. The real blow came when Grace revealed that Sheryl didn't even have a future to work towards.

The scene in the rain is contrasted with the scene in the library wherein she tries to keep Michael and Klan from worrying about her. She's deeply hurt by the situation, but her self-reliance forces her to wait until she is 'alone' to express those feelings. Even her reaction to Yasaburo (whom she mistakes to be Alto) is one of mixed embarrassment and relief; on one hand, she doesn't want to burden him with her pain, yet she feels better at the idea of being able to express her emotions.

In episode twenty, Sheryl finds her niche. But despite wanting to give hope to everyone around her, she's still lost hope for herself. Her interactions with Alto during these episodes bring this issue to the forefront; on one hand, she wants to give into him, but at the same time, she doesn't believe that she can have that happiness for herself.

Her conversation with Ranka during episode twenty-five attempts to bring this issue to resolution (albeit in a somewhat rushed manner) by having Ranka show Sheryl that she need not sacrifice herself for the sake of Frontier; throughout the series she's discovered friendship and love, there are people who are awaiting her return. In that sense, Sheryl's cure symbolizes that she's truly found her willingness to live, once again - not simply for her duty to others, but for the pursuit of her own personal happiness.

[BetoJR]

Swampstorm, that was probably the best summation of this whole debacle I could have hoped for. Mad props to you. But, be sure some people are bound to disagree, at least.

[justavisitor]

@Swampstorm

I pretty much agree with what you said.

Sheryl's collapse in ep 18 (taxi scene) was due to physical conditions (walking in heavy rain doesn't help) and the blow from Grace about the disease. I think I pretty much expressed the similiar idea (about ep 18) as Swampstorm suggusted. Then all of a sudden, punches come from left and right.....XD

[Mei19]

XD Are we really arguing about whether Sheryl collapsed mentally or physically? How does that correlate with romance??

What? Where on earth did you get that from? She was feeling ill and slipped. He chose not to be an ass and decided to help her. She didn't trick anyone into anything.

Maybe kaoru meant to say that Alto was just helping Sheryl and wasn't necessarily holding her romantically. Ranka thought it was the latter.

Going back to romance. Alto expressed manly devotion to both Ranka and Sheryl. That's about right. But from what I see Alto's devotion towards Ranka looked deeper. It's as if he comes to terms with his true self everytime he has to be Ranka's protector. I got chills in the last episode when he compared himself to the flowers blooming and not.:D. I liked him even more.

[kujoe]

Sigh. Ok, I'll bite.

From what I read into Kaoru's post, he was referring to that part where he was holding her as something that Sheryl tricked him into doing. The part where he said that Alto wasn't expressing anything deep is just part of his opinion that supports this claim.

And well, that's just a twisted view no matter where you stand on this romance issue.

As for the physically or mentally part, I believe it was a misunderstanding from justavisitor's (or was it Kaoru's?) comment that brought it up.

[Tak]

It's as if he comes to terms with his true self everytime he has to be Ranka's protector.

True, he finally realized that he should stop using Ranka as an excuse to get away from bigger problems and face reality instead. Being with Ranka was utterly unhelpful to him in facing his own inner-demons.

Oh, so very deep indeed.

- Tak

[Mei19]

'Trick' is a bad wording.:p It's more like what Sheryl made him do unintentionally. Alto had to hold her or she would've hit her head on the asphalt. XD But I agree with Kaoru when he said Alto wasn't expressing anything deep romantic-wise. He was just encouraging her as a fellow actor no matter how I look at it.

[Tak]

'Trick' is a bad wording.:p It's more like what Sheryl made him do unintentionally. Alto had to hold her or she would've hit her head on the asphalt. XD But I agree with Kaoru when he said Alto wasn't expressing anything deep romantic-wise. He was just encouraging her as a fellow actor no matter how I look at it.

Trick is what she wants to believe.

But funny how you are still hammering this. Nobody here suggested that Alto at the time expressed anything deep romantic-wise in that episode. Apparently, only you are. Feeling the threat and pressure, can't help but jump the gun, eh?

- Tak

[kujoe]

'Trick' is a bad wording.:p It's more like what Sheryl made him do unintentionally.
But that's practically the same as "tricked into doing", albeit just in a more neutral way of saying it. :eyebrow: Not to mention, that's exactly the word s/he used after all.

Even with your wording, it's still a very twisted or flawed view that fails to even acknowledge what's going on.

[Mei19]

XD I'm standing up for the select Ranka fans. Because what they say makes more sense to me.

I remember you said you're going to "stop feeding the troll"? Why do you still quote what I say? Perhaps you think I have a point and you just have to fix it to fit your own view.:eyespin:

@kujoe
Err...Sheryl got dizzy. Alto had to support her weight.

She made him support her because she was going to hit the ground if he didn't. How do you want me to describe that? It's straightforward. Trick is more like doing it on purpose.

[kujoe]

XD I'm standing up for the select Ranka fans. Because what they say makes more sense to me.
This has nothing to do with shipping. It's a question of understanding the dramatic situation of a particular scene. In fact, zalem who is known as an anti-shipper even questioned Kaoru on this.

I remember you said you're going to "stop feeding the troll"? Why do you still quote what I say? Perhaps you think I have a point and you just have to fix it to fit your own view.:eyespin:
Oh, give me a break. *facepalm*

Here I am responding to you reasonably, realizing where we disagree on, not even commenting on your romance views per se, just on the topic of discussion at hand, and you go ahead and antagonize me. If you're "standing up" for the Ranka fans like that, you're not doing a good job of it.

[Mei19]

@kujoe
Gomenasai, I was replying to Tak on my first paragraph. Not you. He kept picking on me XD

[kujoe]

Err...Sheryl got dizzy. Alto had to support her weight.

She made him support her because she was going to hit the ground if he didn't. How do you want me to describe that? It's straightforward. Trick is more like doing it on purpose.
So you agree that Sheryl doesn't resort to tricking Alto then.

But making someone do something is still an act done with purpose. It's essentially the same thing, when you make someone do something for you without asking within the context of this scene. In other words, there's an intent.

But the scene doesn't show this, and we already know her condition. From what we also already know, Sheryl doesn't even like to show weakness and she tries to hide her illness from others. Like you said, she becomes dizzy. You'd have to come from such a persistent view to twist this event to your liking that it's not even funny. Heck, it doesn't even affect whatever your shipping preferences are that much.

It's really up to Alto himself whether he wants to help or not. And thankfully, he does the right and decent thing.

Gomenasai, I was replying to Tak on my first paragraph. Not you. He kept picking on me XD
Oh. In that case, I take that back. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[BetoJR]

Err...Sheryl got dizzy. Alto had to support her weight.
She made him support her because she was going to hit the ground if he didn't. How do you want me to describe that? It's straightforward. Trick is more like doing it on purpose.
Oh, God... she made him support her... I mean... really... could she be any more manipulative?!? That wily nymph... she fooled us all!!!! :heh:

Honestly, mate, if you can't see the incongruence in your attempted point, there's no discussing it.

[forgottendiary]

Oh, God... she made him support her... I mean... really... could she be any more manipulative?!? That wily nymph... she fooled us all!!!! :heh:


No, actually I think she made him drink a potion first that makes him succumb to her every command. They didn't actually show it, but what the heck, it's the only plausible explanation!

:heh::heh::heh::heh:

[Swampstorm]

As far as I understand, the issue of Sheryl's collapse came up when Tak tried to explain how Sheryl consistantly showed extraordinary strength despite being faced with very difficult circumstances. Unfortunately, he used the word 'collapse' instead of 'give in'. This was then interpreted literally ("Sheryl did collapse in episode eighteen,") and the discussion degenerated into a semantic argument.

---

The scene at the start of episode twenty isn't romantic in and of itself. In episode nineteen, Alto revealed that he looked up to Sheryl for inspiration. The reason that he invited her to see his stunts during Ranka's concert was to show her how much he'd grown in comparison to his first stunt show in episode one. He wanted her to see for herself that her singing really had made a difference for him.

As of that point, Alto was no longer simply being mentored by Sheryl; he'd reached a point where he could also inspire her in turn. It's not surprising, then, that this marks the point where Alto starts to see past Sheryl's defenses to understand who she really is as a person. (To be fair, Alto doesn't achieve this entirely on his own; he still needs a hint from Michael to put things together. But it's still a step, nonetheless.)

The scene on the rooftop conveys exactly that point. Alto can see that Sheryl really doesn't want to give up singing; for the first time, he can see her inner feelings despite her attempts to hide them. Although Sheryl is trying to push him away, she is stunned by the fact that he could see through her for the very first time.

But while the scene itself isn't romantic, it acts as a starting point from which Alto learns to understand Sheryl, and Sheryl learns to open up to Alto. In that sense, it does serve as the foundation for their romantic development in later episodes.

---

While it's true that Ranka did misinterpret the scene, there still is no trick at work here. Her character conflict arose from the fact that she disregarded her own beliefs and career goals because of her feelings for Alto. In the process, she ended up trying to become something that she was not. This was what ultimately lead to her decision to let go of Alto in episode twenty-one; the rooftop scene and Ranka's interactions with Brera simply helped her to reach that realization.

[Tak]

I remember you said you're going to "stop feeding the troll"? Why do you still quote what I say?

So does Miss I will stop beating a dead horse admit herself as being a troll? Because last time I did not label you as one, I simply asked the question.


Perhaps you think I have a point and you just have to fix it to fit your own view.:eyespin:

Oh, you need to stop accusing yourself.

- - - - -

In any case, there was no growth in Alto's character every moment that he was with Ranka. It was too convenient for him to simply use her as an excuse to escape from the reality before him. Sheryl was becoming a role model of sorts, not only serving as an inspiration, but also prompting difficult questions to Alto once in a while, forcing him to look at the bigger realities instead of succumbing to his small little world. Ranka on the other hand, was the proponent in that regard, attempting to tie Alto up in her little fantasy, even if it would lead to certain death. If it was not for the fact that Alto refused, Ranka would have had it.

- Tak (And, thank you Swampy)

[BetoJR]

Good Lord, Swampstorm, you're on fire!!! Keep it up!!! Couldn't agree more - nor could I have expressed myself any better. :D

[justavisitor]

As far as I understand, the issue of Sheryl's collapse came up when Tak tried to explain how Sheryl consistantly showed extraordinary strength despite being faced with very difficult circumstances. Unfortunately, he used the word 'collapse' instead of 'give in'. This was then interpreted literally ("Sheryl did collapse in episode eighteen,") and the discussion degenerated into a semantic argument.


While I focus on the word "collapse", I also stated that both girls have the moment of "losing it". At the end, both made the best choices to stand up again according to their unique situation.

That was the original post I made. No bashing there, there I don't know what happens and ppl start to feel enraged about my comment. :heh:

[TwilightHack]

All fingers point to Alto x Sheryl pre-ep25 and post-ep25. Honestly its like ep25's indecision and polygamy implied ending never even happened.

Do I need to reference the recent official scans and Kawamori quotes that are everywhere and nowhere at the same time? They're official, they're real quotes, they hint at Alto x Sheryl or at least an Alto x Sheryl preference, don't disregard them as "just quotes".

And whats with this whole Sheryl tricked Alto? That's the most out of world thing I've heard yet out of ALL the Ranka ships out there.

Time to suck it up people and just admit that Ranka was given the short stick on things. She lost out on both character development and romance. So much so that Brera x Ranka seems to be the canon nowadays.

[justavisitor]

But then what would be the meaning of "you are both my wings" ??? If one wing is heavier than the other, the bird/plane/Alto can't fly XD

It would be great if you provide the scan, but at the same time as I have suggusted in my previous comment, we don't need interview to see how the story really develops.
In my opinion, if we need to always find interview to give us any "insight" of the story plot, then the director is not doing his job.

Some stories have a definite ending, lilke g gundam, but some are not, like macross frontier. We don't need to urge either side to suck anything up because an open ending is what the director gives us at the end.

[magnuskn]

All fingers point to Alto x Sheryl pre-ep25 and post-ep25. Honestly its like ep25's indecision and polygamy implied ending never even happened.

Do I need to reference the recent official scans and Kawamori quotes that are everywhere and nowhere at the same time? They're official, they're real quotes, they hint at Alto x Sheryl or at least an Alto x Sheryl preference, don't disregard them as "just quotes".

And whats with this whole Sheryl tricked Alto? That's the most out of world thing I've heard yet out of ALL the Ranka ships out there.

Time to suck it up people and just admit that Ranka was given the short stick on things. She lost out on both character development and romance. So much so that Brera x Ranka seems to be the canon nowadays.

Here, here. I guess Kawamori got the message that Tak was about to set sail towards Japan in the H.M.S. Skullfairy. :D

[kujoe]

I believe the "you're both my wings" doesn't refer to Alto's romantic feeling towards any of them per se, now that I think about it. It's directed to his growth as a character more, about finding that sky of his with the help of Sheryl and Ranka and resolving his past issues with his desire to fly.

Furthermore, Kawamori already practically hinted that Alto will choose "one day" in an interview, so the resolution (or non-resolution, if one prefers) in Macross Frontier is just his desired way ending this particular series.

Or maybe, he just changed his mind all of a sudden. Beats me really.

[BetoJR]

I always leaned at the protracted inclusion of "both" girls in his statement to be simply a matter of acknowledging the parts they played in his own personal growth. Not really a romantic statement. Maybe that's just us, tho.

[Mei19]

But then what would be the meaning of "you are both my wings" ??? If one wing is heavier than the other, the bird/plane/Alto can't fly XD

It would be great if you provide the scan, but at the same time as I have suggusted in my previous comment, we don't need interview to see how the story really develops.
In my opinion, if we need to always find interview to give us any "insight" of the story plot, then the director is not doing his job.

Some stories have a definite ending, lilke g gundam, but some are not, like macross frontier. We don't need to urge either side to suck anything up because an open ending is what the director gives us at the end.

I think the scan he was talking about was when Kawamori commented on ep 24 saying he and the fans loved the AruSheri scene.:heh:

Interviews lead you in all direction. Nakamura Yuuichi said that there was a line in ep 25 that made him think Alto was a pimp, but he concluded that Alto wasn't seriously thinking when he said that, and that's how he(the VA) delivered it. My bet is that Nakamura was pertaining to Alto's "you're both my wings." What else is there? And also, Kawamori kept dropping bombs. He said he had his own interpretation of the love triangle. One relationship runs deeper than the other. Alto will make a decision someday. Even I didn't know that Sheryl was supposed to die in the final episode. That's almost the same as saying, the triangle wasn't supposed to happen if he didn't uh....:uhoh: That's how it hit me.

Kawamori just needs a thorough interview of 100 questions and I bet you he'll unintentionally reveal his real conclusion to the love triangle. XD

[Tak]

Even I didn't know that Sheryl was supposed to die in the final episode. That's almost the same as saying, the triangle wasn't supposed to happen if he didn't uh....:uhoh: That's how it hit me.

Whacha smokin'? Wanna pass me some? Because something tells me that you did not read his interviews carefully, or was it intentional on your part, which both cases will hardly surprise me.

- Tak

[BetoJR]

Kawamori just needs a thorough interview of 100 questions and I bet you he'll unintentionally reveal his real conclusion to the love triangle.
Now, THAT will never happen. The Hory Froating Head is just too devious to fall for something like this... :heh:

And, Tak, if you're referring to the Sheryl dying bit... c'mon, do you honestly believe that it was supposed to be Ranka that died, then? On what do you base this assumption, if you don't mind my asking? I don't think anyone else got that impression from the interview... so, a little help?

[Tak]

And, Tak, if you're referring to the Sheryl dying bit... c'mon, do you honestly believe that it was supposed to be Ranka that died, then? On what do you base this assumption, if you don't mind my asking? I don't think anyone else got that impression from the interview... so, a little help?

Because if they had wanted to kill Sheryl, it would not have been by episode 25. Yes, a lot of people were expecting Sheryl to die, so did I, but by the end of 22, I knew that simply was not possible.

Nowhere was it mentioned that the plan was to off Sheryl at 25. Moreover, if they did, so what? Mei19 would like to believe that it automatically leads to a AruRan ending, when Kawamori himself stated they never developed anything resembling chemistry.

- Tak (Of course, opting to kill Sheryl is like opting to kill the entire show, its like killing Kira by the end of SEED, which was in the original plans. Fortunately, he lived and Lacus found him a prince. Otherwise, I bet there would still be an argument like ours going on on the SEED front)

[BetoJR]

Ah, so there wasn't any real hint that it was Ranka that was supposed to die, then?

But it makes sense, considering that he himself "didn't know what to do with Sheryl" until some changes were made to the scripts - I'm not really sure if this was only after episode 18 or not. Maybe those death omens we kept discussing after the preview in episode 24 were actual hints that were, thankfully, scrapped later. Cuz, IMHO, if there was gonna be a death then, of a major character, the only big impact would it be if it was Sheryl or Alto. But he specifically referred to a girl, in the interview, right? And Alto already had a fake death, so...

[justavisitor]

So can we now conclude that the interview quote is directed at the possilbe death from Sheryl, not Ranak then? Not that the interview is important, but that question has been remained unanswered for so long XD

Well, romantic statment or not. As soon as the line "you are both my wings" come out, I would say many non-shipper would think Ranka and Sheryl are both as important to Alto. I mean, come on, wings are symmetrical, and both sides have the same weight.....unless it's really like what Mei19 suggested that Alto was not serious in saying that quote...but we as audience won't know that unless we approach to, yes you get it right, interview XD....that's why I really don't bother with interview from director or VA...especially they have to keep the topic somewhat hot for the movie.....

Oh well, so I guess at the end of the series, both girls are equal. And of course Alto will have to make decision someday if Frontier prohibit polygamy. Actually, he can "choose" not to marry to anyone while having both Ranka and Sheryl in his house. (If Alto has the money and both girls are willing to comply, then no one can accuse Alto of anything)

[Tak]

Ah, so there wasn't any real hint that it was Ranka that was supposed to die, then?

Actually, he left it pretty much up in the airs for us to think about. I also noticed that he didn't mention any names specifically. He only said "Ranka saved, and Sheryl lived". Ok, so what does that mean, sure, we know Sheryl could have died off at any point, but if she did die, would Ranka been saved then? Even if that was the case, so what, he could not force a pairing that even his own production team thought was simply impossible. He himself stated that Ranka and Alto never had any real chemistry and that Alto and Sheryl were the ones with something going on.

Yeah, one can argue to death about the director's original intentions, but it didn't work out, just as the original plan to cap Kira at the end of SEED 50 did not work out. That is the fact, one ought to learn to live with it.


But it makes sense, considering that he himself "didn't know what to do with Sheryl" until some changes were made to the scripts - I'm not really sure if this was only after episode 18 or not

Well, he did not expect Sheryl to overtake Ranka, really.

Thus he completely lost track of Ranka somewhere around episode 12, which he admitted. And by the time of 18, while Ohnogi had plans for Sheryl, nobody else had any real plans for Ranka. If Bakamori wanted to create some sort of development, or even chemistry between Alto and Ranka, he failed utterly, which he himself admitted in addition to admitting that he had screwed up Ranka's character. So the best way to handle this? Send her to exile.

And lets not even kid ourselves, remember Alto's VA interview? This was way before 18 when he said "Alto loves the sky" in response to the question "which girl does Alto like". So if either girl died, so what, won't stop Alto from humping the sky. Even though he later made some slightly negative comments about Bakamori, but we will leave that for another day.

- Tak

[Mei19]

He himself stated that Ranka and Alto never had any real chemistry and that Alto and Sheryl were the ones with something going on.

Eh? He said Ranka and Alto had no real chemistry but Alto and Sheryl does? I don't remember this interview. Source? I'm feeling a little iffy trusting your translations now after what you claimed about Ranka's death.:eyespin: Gomen. Maybe you can redeem yourself again if you have links to the actual interview.

[TwilightHack]

But then what would be the meaning of "you are both my wings" ??? If one wing is heavier than the other, the bird/plane/Alto can't fly XD

It would be great if you provide the scan, but at the same time as I have suggusted in my previous comment, we don't need interview to see how the story really develops.
In my opinion, if we need to always find interview to give us any "insight" of the story plot, then the director is not doing his job.

Some stories have a definite ending, lilke g gundam, but some are not, like macross frontier. We don't need to urge either side to suck anything up because an open ending is what the director gives us at the end.
Clearly you didn't read the part where I said pre-ep25 and post-ep25.

Also, when the director/creator himself is the one being interviewed, I believe "insight" is credible.

So can we now conclude that the interview quote is directed at the possilbe death from Sheryl, not Ranak then? Not that the interview is important, but that question has been remained unanswered for so long XD

Well, romantic statment or not. As soon as the line "you are both my wings" come out, I would say many non-shipper would think Ranka and Sheryl are both as important to Alto. I mean, come on, wings are symmetrical, and both sides have the same weight.....unless it's really like what Mei19 suggested that Alto was not serious in saying that quote...but we as audience won't know that unless we approach to, yes you get it right, interview XD....that's why I really don't bother with interview from director or VA...especially they have to keep the topic somewhat hot for the movie.....

Oh well, so I guess at the end of the series, both girls are equal. And of course Alto will have to make decision someday if Frontier prohibit polygamy. Actually, he can "choose" not to marry to anyone while having both Ranka and Sheryl in his house. (If Alto has the money and both girls are willing to comply, then no one can accuse Alto of anything)
Yes, Sheryl would have died had Kawamori not been fearful of being lynched by his own staff.

"You are both my wings" does not instantly put people on the same ground. Going by your own reasoning by the "wings are symmetrical", I can tell you for a fact that nothing grows perfectly the same was as the other. One will always be longer, shorter, fatter, skinnier, weaker, or whatever what not compared to the other.

When you write off what a director says while commenting on his own series, post series, I take you to be seriously in denial. Disregarding the facts is in a whole other ballpark than just trying to disprove a theory.

In the end, both girls are not equal pre-ep25 and post-ep25. Ep25 provided mecha pr0n and a rushed storyline that threw out all development previously which left the entire community (not just AS) in a state of utter confusion.

I think the scan he was talking about was when Kawamori commented on ep 24 saying he and the fans loved the AruSheri scene.:heh:

Interviews lead you in all direction. Nakamura Yuuichi said that there was a line in ep 25 that made him think Alto was a pimp, but he concluded that Alto wasn't seriously thinking when he said that, and that's how he(the VA) delivered it. My bet is that Nakamura was pertaining to Alto's "you're both my wings." What else is there? And also, Kawamori kept dropping bombs. He said he had his own interpretation of the love triangle. One relationship runs deeper than the other. Alto will make a decision someday. Even I didn't know that Sheryl was supposed to die in the final episode. That's almost the same as saying, the triangle wasn't supposed to happen if he didn't uh....:uhoh: That's how it hit me.

Kawamori just needs a thorough interview of 100 questions and I bet you he'll unintentionally reveal his real conclusion to the love triangle. XD
The scan I was referring to was the "All I want for Christmas" scan that Tsuchiro posted not too long ago. It had Alto x Sheryl, Brera x Ranka written all over it.

Nakamura Yuuichi is NOT Shouji Kawamori. Therefore, his thoughts are NOT those of the director. The only other person that I would trust listening in an interview are the actual writers such as Ohnogi. While you are right about Kawamori dropping bombs, I believe with a true heart that he is just trying to please everyone (specifically Ranka fans) and give them hope at least up until the movie.

That reminds me, I feel sorry for that person that quoted me and said, "I will buy 2 BD's for every 1 BD that you and your friend's cancel." They must have dished out a lot of money. I'm still waiting on the movie.

Edit:

Eh? He said Ranka and Alto had no real chemistry but Alto and Sheryl does? I don't remember this interview. Source? I'm feeling a little iffy trusting your translations now after what you claimed about Ranka's death.:eyespin: Gomen. Maybe you can redeem yourself again if you have links to the actual interview.
The links have been posted before. Please use the "search" option.

[justavisitor]

"You are both my wings" does not instantly put people on the same ground. Going by your own reasoning by the "wings are symmetrical", I can tell you for a fact that nothing grows perfectly the same was as the other. One will always be longer, shorter, fatter, skinnier, weaker, or whatever what not compared to the other.


......
are you over-analyzing a bit? So Alto supposes to tell Ranka/Sheryl : You are both my wings, but Ranka/Sheryl, you are the longer, fatter, stronger one
......

I mean, most ppl first impression about the wing is symmetrical...if you have to think about it and have to use the argument that "nothing grows perfectly the same" to give you a better feeling to the character you like, then in my opinion, it's really over-analyzing.


When you write off what a director says while commenting on his own series, post series, I take you to be seriously in denial. Disregarding the facts is in a whole other ballpark than just trying to disprove a theory.


An interview is the welcome source of info, but it's not supposed to be an necessary material for audiences to understand the story. Director makes a story for ppl to see and different ppl have different opinions. Director cannot "correct" the thought of the audiences by having an interivew in order to "guide" the audiences to understand the "true" meaning of his production. Just like I don't have to read every interview from "spiderman" whether before or after seeing the movie. (Besides, it seems like many ppl interpret the interview to various meanings....)

Of course, if you like to go by the interview, it's completely your choices. But by using the interview to tell others to "suck it up" is not apporiate in my opinion.

[Tak]

I don't remember this interview. Source? I'm feeling a little iffy trusting your translations now after what you claimed about Ranka's death.:eyespin: Gomen. Maybe you can redeem yourself again if you have links to the actual interview.

The interview came from Famitsu, which was posted in this forum before.

Kawamori stated quite clearly stating "Alto was deaf to Ranka's voice, and with Sheryl, they produced chemistry".

Another thing Kawamori mentioned was in regards to fan response to episode 24, stating that "The fans reacted strongly to the scenes with Alto and Sheryl, stating it was beautiful, while the crew and I think it was beautiful too".

On the other hand, he mentioned nothing in regards to fan response when its concerning Ranka in any of his interviews. The same source will tell you how he messed up Ranka after being upset by Sheryl, and until the end he had no idea what to do with her so he had no choice but to have Ohnogi send her on an exile.

Perhaps you can redeem yourself by using the search function.

- Tak

[TwilightHack]

......
are you over-analyzing a bit? So Alto supposes to tell Ranka/Sheryl : You are both my wings, but Ranka/Sheryl, you are the longer, fatter, stronger one
......

I mean, most ppl first impression about the wing is symmetrical...if you have to think about it and have to use the argument that "nothing grows perfectly the same" to give you a better feeling to the character you like, then in my opinion, it's really over-analyzing.
"Over analyzing" is saying wings are symmetrical to justify an argument. Truthfully I'm just going with the flow since you decided to take that route. If you don't want something bogus thrown back at you, don't throw bogus first. And again, wings are NOT symmetrical.

Anyways, I don't know about you... but When I think about wings, I think about birds and planes; and then I think about flying; and then I think about the sky.

Now to put this "wings" analogy in other less "over analyzing" terms. Think of it as a situation between a friend and your significant other. You need both of them to go on, but one means differently to you than the other.

Thus while I do believe that Ranka and Sheryl are equally important to each Alto (I'm not arguing Ranka means nothing or less), saying that they are on equal ground romantically is a stretch. Especially when development has pointed towards Alto x Sheryl post 18.

Note: Before I hear that BS saying "Kawamori didn't intend for that to happen!"

He probably didn't, but it did, he let it, and he liked it. Enough said on the matter.

An interview is the welcome source of info, but it's not supposed to be an necessary material for audiences to understand the story. Director makes a story for ppl to see and different ppl have different opinions. Director cannot "correct" the thought of the audiences by having an interivew in order to "guide" the audiences to understand the "true" meaning of his production. Just like I don't have to read every interview from "spiderman" whether before or after seeing the movie. (Besides, it seems like many ppl interpret the interview to various meanings....)
You're right, its not SUPPOSED to be necessary. But in a situation where an inconclusive ending was provided. Any official information provided leads to insights as to what would actually happen after the series.

Take this for example, where an interview after a series changed canon.

Do you believe Dumbledore from Harry Potter is gay? No? Well too bad. Because even though the books didn't say it, JK Rowling, in an interview after the series ended, said it.

Who would have known, Dumbledore, gay. Not me.
But guess what? Now its truth.

Of course, if you like to go by the interview, it's completely your choices. But by using the interview to tell others to "suck it up" is not apporiate in my opinion.
Shouji Kawamori is the creator of the entirety of the Macross Universe (sans Macross II which is not canon), just as JK Rowling is to Harry Potter.

And as Rowling's words mean everything in Harry Potter, Kawamori's words mean everything in Macross, interview or not. If you cannot understand that, you should just delete everything Macross and find another series to fool around in.

Keep rolling your bald wheels on the ice, you aren't getting anywhere.

[Mei19]

The links have been posted before. Please use the "search" option.

You mean to say that the interview where Kawamori said that Ranka and Alto never had any real chemistry and that Alto and Sheryl were the ones with something going on was that interview? Was that it? I already saw that interview then. :cool:

The interview came from Famitsu, which was posted in this forum before.

Kawamori stated quite clearly stating "Alto was deaf to Ranka's voice, and with Sheryl, they produced chemistry".

Perhaps you can redeem yourself by using the search function.

- Tak


Mou. I thought that there was another interview that I missed.:frustrated:

Kawamori on Episode 24 : "The last frontier of the heart is yourself. The fans loved the scenes of Alto and Sheryl, and I must say, so did I! They look great on screen. (laughs)"

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1976694&postcount=2122

Is this the big definitive factor to the AltoxSheryl? Because Kawamori commented that Alto and Sheryl looked good on screen together? XD That's the "something going on" between them? lmao:heh::heh:

I don't see anything stating that Alto was deaf to Ranka's voice in that interview. That's why I still don't know if it really was from an actual interview or from your head. But with or without interview, I kind of know that there's some truth to that because Alto stated in episode 23 that he was pretending not to notice things, Michael said in 20 that he was doing it on purpose and Blue Ether's lyrics mirror RankaxAlto perfectly. :D

I still think it's an exaggeration to use that to disprove RankaxAlto and prove AltoxSheryl however. Big exaggeration. The bit that Kawamori sympathized on Sheryl and let her live in the end is more telling than that IMO. Because then you can see why Ranka suddenly transformed into vajra jesus and healed Sheryl. XD That was bloodily random.

[TwilightHack]

You mean to say that the interview where Kawamori said that Ranka and Alto never had any real chemistry and that Alto and Sheryl were the ones with something going on was that interview? Was that it? I already saw that interview then. :cool:
If I'm not mistaken, that's just PART of the full interview that happened to make its way onto macross generation.

[Tak]

I still think it's an exaggeration to use that to disprove RankaxAlto and prove AltoxSheryl however. Big exaggeration.

Certainly a significantly less exaggeration than you talking air out of your head. We have actual quotes and facts, you have bold letters to prove you have a bag of crap. Your call.

Never mind that you are arguing about a pairing even the director admitted to have been unable to make it work?


The bit that Kawamori sympathized on Sheryl and let her live in the end is more telling than that IMO. Because then you can see why Ranka suddenly transformed into vajra jesus and healed Sheryl. XD That was bloodily random.

Sorry, but that was made before 18 and before Ohnogi took hold, which never came into fruition because even Kawamori knew that it simply won't work. Its funny to see you biting on this "YES! SHERY WAS GONNA DIE!!!" bit, as if character development and growth doesn't matter as long as there is that "END" you seek, even if it forfeits the value of this entire show. Never mind that you also got the facts completely wrong, it wasn't even Kawamori's original intention to off Sheryl, it was merely suggested by some crew, simple as that. I wonder who is taking this information out of proportions and exaggerating?

Yeah, that Ranka bit was random alright, because it was there to please the likes of you, since the little Wanko had been pitied throughout the entire series. She had no growth, no development, and certainly no redemption, a fact Kawamori admits. But then, by saying what you did, it again shows just how ignorant you are about previous Macross franchises. A lot of us were expecting Sheryl to pull a Sara.

Lastly, let me ask you:

Is this show written for the likes of you? Or written for the majority of Japanese fans who had written to Kawamori about how beautiful Sheryl and Alto look on screen?

May I also remind you that no fan letter as of it, regarding Ranka, had been commented by Kawamori? Why? If you think Ranka and Alto is so oh sexy, why is it that nobody commented on their pairing? Not even Kawamori? He failed the triangle, and he knew it. Hell, throughout my entire adventure in the BBS, I have yet to encounter even one post stating anything beautiful or admirable about what Ranka did. Most of the time, its stating how clueless she is. Thus, instead of coming here and write crap to an audience whose opinions might not matter at all, why not visit the BBS and see the reactions yourself?

With that said, Sheryl lived, and Ranka was one who issued a challenge (ie. fell behind), that is a fact, deal with it.

- Tak

[raile]

I can never see how Alto and Ranka would work out anyway. Seriously.
Even if she had been an "important" factor in the series she had zilch character development. From damsel-in-distress to (well, what do you know?) damsel-in-distress. >_>

(The people I have turned into Macross addicts turn to me and say that Alto and Ranka's chemistry is bland and non-existent while Sheryl and Alto's chemistry sizzle out with every interaction. Some even thought Ranka was 13, lol)

It makes me wonder how people can still see an Alto x Ranka outcome especially considering how the series has pointed out/heavily hinted to the most obvious answer.

EDIT: Also, those buying the polygamy BS, really have to rewatch the series again and again and again until they see the light. Seriously, as if Kawamori would really end it that way.

[Tak]

Yeah, she reminds me of the Fllay shippers.

But Kira was supposed to die with her!!!

He loves her truly!

Well he didn't, and he loves Lacus. Deal with it.

- Tak

[raile]

(OT: Kira and Fllay wasn't even a healthy relationship to begin with. She was a racist psycho, he was somewhat an emo. Lacus was made for him.)

Honestly though, when I was still a neutral shipper, the only vibes I got from Alto and Ranka was a brother-sister relationship...and I don't mean the incesty kind with Brera. Brera x Ranka look more OTP. XDDD

[BetoJR]

Heheheheheh... bring more of the funnies, people. This thread was too gloomy until a while ago. :D

[Urei]

Honestly though, when I was still a neutral shipper, the only vibes I got from Alto and Ranka was a brother-sister relationship...and I don't mean the incesty kind with Brera. Brera x Ranka look more OTP. XDDD

The brother-sister was exactly the first thing I thought about when I saw them together. It was so unrealistic, so over the top to think about them as an actual pair that my self defense mechanisms simply switched to that train of thought.

Furthermore, I didn't even think that Ranka was an actual Triangle candidate. Just a regular support character. :heh:

[raile]

Maybe they should have tweaked her appearance into something that we could really take seriously. They just had to go with the cliched moe-loli girl. (I wanted to see two girls who really looked like rivals i.e. Misa and Minmay.)

They only succeeded in making Ranka look like a cute little girl who had a crush on her older sister's uninterested boyfriend or something. XDD

[justavisitor]

The art is inconsistent in macross frontier. Sometimes they draw Ranka too young, and sometimes they draw Sheryl too old and not charming.

sometimes they even draw Alto in a way that I don't recongize him (his hair lets me realize that it was Alto XD)

@TwilightHack
So you think by going with interview, you can know what will actually happen after the series?? Okay, don't want to burst your bubble, if it can make you feel better. I would be waiting for the movie instead, and I really want the movie to be the sequel of the series too, but too bad the director rather wants to put the "after story" in the interview instead of the movie.

Damn XD

Edit: As an anime fan, I understand your desire to want to make sure that your character will have a good ending. I guess it's human nature?

[Natsuki Hyuga]

The art is inconsistent in macross frontier. Sometimes they draw Ranka too young, and sometimes they draw Sheryl too old and not charming.

sometimes they even draw Alto in a way that I don't recongize him (his hair lets me realize that it was Alto XD)



Now, now. Read back here. raile was talking about how Ranka's character was designed to be childish in appearance (I shouldn't delve about the personality. Your call. I suppose I would say that her personality is of a child too... But whatever you want to think) and how this character design makes her looks more like a non-participant of the triangle. Art inconsistency will never change the impression.

But I must agree on the art inconsistency in Macross Frontier is somewhat disturbing sometimes. Episode 19 Ranka (The... Err... Energetic and determined face? lol can't find the right word :heh:)'s and Sheryl (The talking with Alto scene)'s animation what I would call somewhat disastrous :heh:

[justavisitor]

Now, now. Read back here. raile was talking about how Ranka's character was designed to be childish in appearance (I shouldn't delve about the personality. Your call. I suppose I would say that her personality is of a child too... But whatever you want to think) and how this character design makes her looks more like a non-participant of the triangle. Art inconsistency will never change the impression.

But I must agree on the art inconsistency in Macross Frontier is somewhat disturbing sometimes. Episode 19 Ranka (The... Err... Energetic and determined face? lol can't find the right word :heh:)'s and Sheryl (The talking with Alto scene)'s animation what I would call somewhat disastrous :heh:

I have no problem with the character design, apperance wise...from those official poster and tv series (when they don't mess up the drawing). Some of the pics in official posters even display a more mature version of Ranka. That's why I immediately think of inconsistent drawing when raile suggested the problem with Ranka's appearance. Thanks for pointing out so no more misunderstanding would occur :heh:

Sheryl's face can be drawn really bad in some episode. It makes me even think how Sheyl can become a hot star with that face....thank god it's only in some episdoes, but it's still annoying

[forgottendiary]

thank god it's only in some episdoes, but it's still annoying

If there's anything annoying, it's the moving fluff of "aoi aoi" hair.

Like srsly, did it have to really move when Michel's guts came spluttering out?

[BetoJR]

Oh God, don't remind of that... it always seemed quite trite to me, the hair movements... :(

[justavisitor]

i only comment on art inconsistency lol, and it becomes Ranka bashing again XD

Of course, I don't have any right to stop anyone from voicing his/her opinion anyway, so...go ahead XD

[BetoJR]

You do notice you focus your complaints on Sheryl, just as well, don't you? So, "the kettle calling the pot black", much? :D

[justinstrife]

My god the Ranka shippers are still going at it?

[BetoJR]

The shipping wars never end, now do they? It's just the way of life... :heh:

[justinstrife]

I was still getting e-mails from AS for this thread, and some of the responses were just cracking me up.

The delusions can be pretty sad. :(

[Joachim]

well i've stop caring about what they say and would rather sit , grab a coffee with tea and enjoy my bread while reading some of their comments...

@someone regarding ranka bashing: you started it, you know we got alot of sheryl shipper here and u did comment something about her, therefore the "counter-bash", peace out.

[Mei19]

Certainly a significantly less exaggeration than you talking air out of your head. We have actual quotes and facts, you have bold letters to prove you have a bag of crap. Your call.
- Tak

XDXD You keep saying that but you can't even show the actual quotes and links here. Come on quote it here so that I can RIP. I bet it's something simple that you blew out of proportion again just to support SherylxAlto.:cool:

This forum becomes alive when someone starts supporting Ranka. Why so defensive?:eyespin:

[Joachim]

so you would rather that we keep our mouth shut while you blabber your thoughts? no this isn't random curiosity where ranka fans can flame all they want, you can say in this forum it is majorly crowded with sheryl fans, and saying that this forum becomes alive when someone starts supporting ranka is acceptable.

you don't seriously think if there is a board where majority of the member is ranka fans,they won't do the same don't you?

you just happened to be in a wrong board

why so offensive? back at you

[TwilightHack]

@TwilightHack
So you think by going with interview, you can know what will actually happen after the series?? Okay, don't want to burst your bubble, if it can make you feel better. I would be waiting for the movie instead, and I really want the movie to be the sequel of the series too, but too bad the director rather wants to put the "after story" in the interview instead of the movie.

Damn XD

Edit: As an anime fan, I understand your desire to want to make sure that your character will have a good ending. I guess it's human nature?
I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm also sorry that you generalize me to be an extreme black or white... when the truth is, I could ship Alto x Ranka at least x10 more effectively (non-delusional) than you are now.

And of course you must not understand the magnitude of Kawamori's influence in Macross nor understand when a creator speaks thoughts about his work, it usually means something. Not only in Macross, but anywhere. You also must not understand that if Kawamori had said he thought Alto x Ranka, instead of Alto x Sheryl, looked good together, then I would respect his wishes despite whatever else.

And lastly you must not understand the movie.

The movie and TV series, from all things we have been told, will not be sequel to prequel respectively.

The is because the movie will be a DYRL type remake. If you know anything about the DYRL style, then you would know it is a re-imagining of the series. The TV series is DONE and OVER with, until told otherwise, so getting the Kawamori's insight on it is perfectly acceptable to gather the direction the series would have gone after.

My arguments change with the influx of new information but I also concede defeat when I know it. I've lost my fair share of ship wars so saying I just want to make sure my character has a good ending is a bit out there.

But then again, coming from a Ranka shipper such as yourself with no real basis to back up your argument, only trying to disprove a Sheryl win and sprout neutrality. I can sort of sympathize with your desperate clinging to strings.

[justavisitor]

@TwilightHack

Try read the whole thing first before you comment.....i know the movie is the DYRL type remake, I was saying that if the director has that many "after thought" about the series, he should create a sequel instead of that DYRL type remake..sigh... is it really that hard to understand?

Sheryl win....It's an open ending with the song "triangluar" singing in the background...if you can interpret it as Sheryl win, I have every reason to believe that your interpretation is a bit off

I could go on but better not lol. And it's really nice to a person is so confident on his/her ability. I have no doubt that you would be a lot better than me in defending Ranka if you are a Ranka fan, even though I haven't discovered that quality in your post....but I am sure you can do it XD

[TwilightHack]

@TwilightHack

Try read the whole thing first before you comment.....i know the movie is the DYRL type remake, I was saying that if the director has that many "after thought" about the series, he should create a sequel instead of that DYRL type remake..sigh... is it really that hard to understand?
First off, Macross Frontier was the 25th Anniversary of Macross. It is the whole reason why 25 was such a predominant number in the series. Macross 25, 25 Episodes, etc. The Japanese are pretty big on anniversaries and keeping to numbers... which is why we will probably never see a direct sequel to Macross Frontier. It'd ruin the whole anniversary thought.

Now, let me quote you again.

I would be waiting for the movie instead, and I really want the movie to be the sequel of the series too, but too bad the director rather wants to put the "after story" in the interview instead of the movie.
So out of that I'm supposed to derive that Kawamori should make a sequel instead? Especially after all your sarcasm and effort to try to disregard the legitimacy of Kawamori's interviews in relation to Macross. You're asking me to read deep between the lines and out of the box. Frankly, even then its sketchy.

And so, are you finally accepting that Kawamori's thoughts do mean something to the Macross after story?

Maybe you should convey your thoughts better before you tell other people to read the "whole thing" first. Keep spinning your wheels, like I said, you aren't going anywhere.

Sheryl win....It's an open ending with the song "triangluar" singing in the background...if you can interpret it as Sheryl win, I have every reason to believe that your interpretation is a bit off
Do you remember what I said about pre-ep25 and post-ep25?

Pre-ep25 develops AxS, ep25 stands neutral, post-ep25 hints AxS. As it stands, ep25 is one episode out of many... and to say equal grounds romantically out of one line, a bit outrageous to me.

I could go on but better not lol. And it's really nice to a person is so confident on his/her ability. I have no doubt that you would be a lot better than me in defending Ranka if you are a Ranka fan, even though I haven't discovered that quality in your post....but I am sure you can do it XD
Oh please go on, I'd like to see what else you can put out.

And a thought, why defend a Ranka ship when I don't ship Ranka..? I've never shipped AxR but let it be know I've defended her character against other Sheryl ships in the past.

[justavisitor]

And so, are you finally accepting that Kawamori's thoughts do mean something to the Macross after story?



Well, if it's in an OVA format, then of course yes.
Probably you never watch this anime before, but please allow me to use this anime as an example.

In cyber formula tv series, the male lead and female lead get together at the end. Then after 4 OVAs (each OVA has about 8 episodes, so there are about 36 "after tv series" episode), they even got married and live happily ever after. Now of course I would say it's canon that they got married since it's in the OVA. Now if the direcotr comes out and says in the interview that their personalities don't fit and probably will get divorced. Then am I supposed to say they got divorced at the end and state it as fact??? Of course not!!!!

Plus, many ppl interpret different meaning from that macross interview. Furthermore, director has to keep the topic alive for the movie. All these things combine and I would suggest let's wait for the movie and see.

If the director really wants to change the ending or give us more hint on who Alto would end up with, he now has the movie to do it (DYRL style or not would not be an issue), just like the new Z-gundam movie.




Oh please go on, I'd like to see what else you can put out.

And a thought, why defend a Ranka ship when I don't ship Ranka..? I've never shipped AxR but let it be know I've defended her character against other Sheryl ships in the past.

oh no, please spare me :heh:. How can I challenge you when you already say it in word that you are 10 times better than me :D

Kidding aside, I say it's neutral in ep 25....I always think Alto has more feeling to Ranka and Alto has more development with Sheryl, so it's hard to predict the development in post-25. Now I hope the director can put any of his new thought about the series into the movie.

Okay? I hope this issue is settled.

(I have some issues to deal with and seems like I can't reply in these few days, will be back on December....best of luck to all of you)

[Tak]

XDXD You keep saying that but you can't even show the actual quotes and links here. Come on quote it here so that I can RIP. I bet it's something simple that you blew out of proportion again just to support SherylxAlto.:cool:

ROFL!!! :heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh:

I am not sure if I should laugh my ass off, or lament over the fault of humanity. Because ya'know, here you are...

And how convenient for you to avoid questions altogether.

Besides, didn't you said you read all the interviews?

But you don't believe in any of it.

Its an exaggeration! Yes! Thats it. It was him who wanted to kill Sheryl!! Yes! Not a staff member! No, I won't accept! No! No matter, I will just hide in a corner and repeat AruRan a million times!

So why should I quote anything? You read them all, its redundant for me to go through all the trouble pulling out Famitsu for something you obviously can't handle and instead opt to continue with your near-narcissist comments. That is fine, it is ok if you do not believe what Famitsu had to print. Yet, if you believe Ranka and Alto is supposed to share a deeper connection than what is shown to us, then please point out where did Kawamori commented about that matter. Please point out where Kawamori had indicated Ranka and Alto supposedly shared a feeling deeper than the superficial interaction we witnessed in the series? Please point out where Kawamori had complimented any of Ranka's actions. Please point out where Kawamori had stated it was a thing of beauty to see Ranka on-screen with so-and-so?

Instead of coming in here and trying to downplay on everything, why don't you provide some evidence that support your own ship, you know, something more concrete than general telepathy, from the big man himself?

- Tak

[raile]

Distinguishing shades of colors with a blindfold on...

Have I ever mentioned that a Ranka end would be so...HOW THE FUCK DID THIS HAPPEN?!? Thank God it didn't. >_> The greatest sinner getting all the glory would have made me dislike Macross F.

EDIT: Like everyone else, I want to see some solid and valid evidence as well.

[OT: Looks like someone didn't like my comment on Ranka's character design and gave me a bad rep. Who could it be? XDD]

[CeruleaFeng]

Here's that Famitsu interview, Mei19.

*sigh*

Trans (http://community.livejournal.com/whatboutmystar/20651.html?thread=277931)

[Tak]

Here's that Famitsu interview, Mei19.

*sigh*

Trans (http://community.livejournal.com/whatboutmystar/20651.html?thread=277931)

*Sigh* Its too bad you even went through the trouble of digging this up. Mei19 stated that she read it already, she just don't believe it.

- Tak (Seems like Ranka fans are very aggressive in giving me reps, and seeing how there is only two of you, I can only wonder)

[CeruleaFeng]

*Sigh* Its too bad you even went through the trouble of digging this up. Mei19 stated that she read it already, she just don't believe it.

- Tak (Seems like Ranka fans are very aggressive in giving me reps, and seeing how there is only two of you, I can only wonder)

*Shrug* I don't mind. Now she can't say that you were blowing things out of proportion, and she can either read it again and acknowledge SK's words or forever be branded as yet another raving lunatic in my book.

[BetoJR]

The neg-repping is getting a little bit out of hand, isn't it? Thankfully, the last two who tried with me were without rep points... :D

[Father Hentai]

what are rep points? O_o

I' m just laughing when thinking about Sheryl and Ranka are (in mind) sisters. :D Alto is a lucky flyboy.

[raile]

The neg-repping is getting a little bit out of hand, isn't it? Thankfully, the last two who tried with me were without rep points... :D

My, you sound evil. :p
What's makes it even more stupid is how they don't show their identity. I cannot stomach anonymous cowards like that. >_>

[BetoJR]

Neither can I.
C'mon, can't you guys stomach different opinions and have to resort to cowardice like this? Sheesh... And you wonder why some people have so poor an opinion about this whole shipping thing.

Moving back to topic, I've been re-watching the original SDF Macross and I have to say: the romance there sure was a thing of beauty. I mean, I was all for Misa ever since the beginning, but I can still see the pain Hikaru went through with the triangle. It is very moving.

[raile]

Well one thing I really loved about the SDF triangle was that it really was a triangle. I mean I applaud the girls in Macross F for being good sports, (well at least one them was) but it didn't really give a triangle feel.

Actual quote from my friend, translated to English:

"Where's the triangle that you keep telling me about? All I see is some preteen who's after a guy who clearly doesn't see her in a romantic light." LMAO.

[Father Hentai]

Actual quote from my friend, translated to English:

"Where's the triangle that you keep telling me about? All I see is some preteen who's after a guy who clearly doesn't see her in a romantic light." LMAO.

Welcome to generation PRON. It is a bit difficult to compare romantic from 20 years ago to now, since our younger generation has changed. I think Kawamori did good to put a current teenage behavior into macross f. this polishes the macross series entirely. but still if you are a full hearted macross fan, you can see the triangle through the teen characters. At least I did not have the problem with that.

not a love triangle but a heart tearing romance for me in macross f is the scene in episode 20 when michel died to protect his love.

[raile]

Well you felt your triangle and I felt my triangle. I am a Macross fan but taking Ranka into the triangle equation was just how do I say this....? hard to do. ;) Mainly because I could not take her seriously. To each his own is all I can say.

[forgottendiary]

Welcome to generation PRON. It is a bit difficult to compare romantic from 20 years ago to now, since our younger generation has changed. I think Kawamori did good to put a current teenage behavior into macross f. this polishes the macross series entirely. but still if you are a full hearted macross fan, you can see the triangle through the teen characters. At least I did not have the problem with that.

not a love triangle but a heart tearing romance for me in macross f is the scene in episode 20 when michel died to protect his love.

Mind elaborating on what this current teenage behaviour? you say means?

[Tak]

I love Shin so much better from Macross Zero. He was a decisive, straightforward kind of a guy, I like.

- Tak

[Joachim]

neg rep is so.. overrated anyway, all i get is 3 neg rep with no rep points.. now thats funny, whoever did neg rep surely is bloody childish or just frustrated and need to vent their frustration rather than hitting their own head on their monitor/keyboard

and by all means please do neg rep me if i can help you ease your frustration.. don't die/get injured in a stupid way *ahem*

[Tak]

neg rep is so.. overrated anyway, all i get is 3 neg rep with no rep points.. now thats funny, whoever did neg rep surely is bloody childish or just frustrated and need to vent their frustration rather than hitting their own head on their monitor/keyboard

and by all means please do neg rep me if i can help you ease your frustration.. don't die/get injured in a stupid way *ahem*

The funniest thing is that they actually have to make it bloody obvious as to who did it. I mean, come on now, how immature/childish/juvenile can you get? Obviously goes to show that you cannot throw a good argument on the forums.

- Tak (Yes, if you are going to use bold lettering on the rep, please use the right HTML codes)

[Urei]

Moving back to topic, I've been re-watching the original SDF Macross and I have to say: the romance there sure was a thing of beauty. I mean, I was all for Misa ever since the beginning, but I can still see the pain Hikaru went through with the triangle. It is very moving.

That's right, though I would not give him that much credit. He sure pissed me off near the end of the series, with almost everything he did. Hikaru is an ideal example of a lover boy with a tendency to be indecisive when it counts. I loved the way they've shown his interactions with Minmay at the start and how the story switched to Misa. All of that is fine but I still think DYRL is way better then the original series when it comes to the triangle.

Well one thing I really loved about the SDF triangle was that it really was a triangle. I mean I applaud the girls in Macross F for being good sports, (well at least one them was) but it didn't really give a triangle feel.

Nah, it was a triangle though Alto's way of perceiving it and showing his emotions made the viewer, especially Sheryl Fans question the validity of the other party. The triangle is created by the one who is at it's center, hence, Alto. Hikaru was expressive, Alto is defensive. That's the only difference I see here.

[Joachim]

The funniest thing is that they actually have to make it bloody obvious as to who did it. I mean, come on now, how immature/childish/juvenile can you get? Obviously goes to show that you cannot throw a good argument on the forums.

- Tak (Yes, if you are going to use bold lettering on the rep, please use the right HTML codes)

no cure for childisness or whatever that is, when they lose argument they just throw neg rep at ya, but heck, whatever satisfy them, i would rather have some neg rep than a lil kid found dead the next day from high blood pressure/ suicidal :heh:

okay thats kinda rough and rude but whatever :)

lol at your last quote :D

[raile]

I love Shin so much better from Macross Zero. He was a decisive, straightforward kind of a guy, I like.

- Tak

If Alto had been anything like Shin, he would have made a conclusion to the love triangle a loooooooong time ago. ;)

[Mei19]

- Tak (Yes, if you are going to use bold lettering on the rep, please use the right HTML codes)

Is that why you disabled your reputation? XD You keep getting negative rep and, me preferring a different bold font and justavisitor a.k.a ranka shippers, are the culprit? I never gave you one. Not yet.:cool: How did you come to that conclusion? Do you neg rep people for supporting Ranka and her fans?

Tonikaku it's not healthy pointing fingers. Whether to believe me or not is up to you. Saying it once is enough for me. I ain't going to lie. I find it enjoying to point out holes in posts as much as going against the flow, so I reply. I like it when I get reactions. :D

Cerulean Feng. I said I saw that translation already.:eyespin:

Mou, it looks like Tak can't quote the lines stating that "Alto and Ranka never had any real chemistry while Alto and Sheryl have something going on." Can Tak quote it for me? Please? No pun intended. :) I really want to read that segment where Kawamori clearly stated it. I'll give you positive rep if it's really what you say.

[Tak]

Is that why you disabled your reputation? XD You keep getting negative rep and, me preferring a different bold font and justavisitor a.k.a ranka shippers, are the culprit?

Hmm, I never said you were the culprit. why so serious?

I never gave you one. Not yet.

How very hasty of you to come to your own defense.


How did you come to that conclusion?

Gee, because the repper admitted to be a Ranka-supporter? Du'h?

I like it when I get reactions.

Same reason why I am dicking with you.


Do you neg rep people for supporting Ranka and her fans?

:heh: Don't flatter yourself.


Tonikaku it's not healthy pointing fingers.

So stop pointing at yourself.


Mou, it looks like Tak can't quote the lines stating that "Alto and Ranka never had any real chemistry while Alto and Sheryl have something going on." Can Tak quote it for me? Please? No pun intended. :) I really want to read that segment where Kawamori clearly stated it.

Everyone read it here, everyone knew it, you refuse to search for it, obviously because you refuse to believe it.

And we have yet to see anything resembling hard evidence coming from you that supports your sinking ship. You want to argue your pairing has something deeper than implied. something deeper than general telepathy, then why don't you pull hard evidence? Try again.

- Tak

[raile]

@Mei19: Your evidence for your ship, please.

@Tak: FTW!

[Mei19]

@Tak
I can't see it that's why I'm asking you. So you really can't quote it here? Even if I asked nicely XD...Never mind. I'll leave it at that. I understand.;)

You want hard evidence that Alto and Ranka had deeper feelings? Can't you see it in the story? I'll quote them for you if you ask nicely too.:cool:

[raile]

That I gotta see. ;) Some interviews and such would be nice too, as a fan's insight isn't really enough to support for this "existent relationship" of Alto x Ranka.

Alto loves Ranka you would say, while Kawamori states Alto has been deaf to her songs. What a love!

[Tak]

You want hard evidence that Alto and Ranka had deeper feelings? Can't you see it in the story?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Oh damn, I nearly pissed my pants. Sorry, that was just way too hilarious to be ignored.


I'll quote them for you if you ask nicely too.:cool:

wheeze, yeah, go on, humor me.

Oh, here is that interview (http://www.presepe.jp/m44/sp/id/BeWkJEnOCYY=/#01), have fun.

To make life infinitely easier for you, in regards to Sheryl, this is what he said:


シェリルはいいですよね。本当に“ツンデレ”と言ってしまいたくはないんだけれども、強さともろさが一番美 味しくミックスしている感じですよね。女の人から見ても、あのぐらい思い切って言ってくれる人がいるといい ですよね。最初は嫌われるぐらいに出しておいて、だんだんかわいい面を出していこうと（笑）。でもそれが、 一歩間違えると本当にただのどぎつい子になってしまうのを、歌のMay'nさんも声優の遠藤綾さんもうまく 表現してくれた。そのおかげで、いいバランスになったんじゃないかと思いますね。アフレコの時には、かわい い部分とキツイ部分のバランスをとるのが難しいんですよね。決まると気持ちいいんですけど（笑）。決まるま でがすごく……という苦労も見せない子ですよね（笑）。

Courtesy of Maggy:

I liked Sheryl. That´s to say, at the beginning we looked for a "strong and combative" character. Later I got the idea to make her an older sister to Ranka. But I discovered something incredible: Her strength and her fragility gave us a beautiful opportunity to make a delicious mixture. At the beginning we improvised and then looking at the woman we got, I called upon someone to make that mixture. At the beginning I hated her, although I recognize that she has a very pretty face. Nonetheless, I was wrong and we corrected those steps. Her dialogue voice and her musical voice, Aya Endo and May'n, transformed into a unique voice and defined her. Thanks to both of them, the balance of those two voices sounded very good to me. At the end I was fascinated by her and she made me smile. And we then decided to show the viewers her form of fighting.

Note: So yes, as we have mentioned time and time again, your cherished outline of Sheryl's death came before 18 was formalized, which was again, suggested by a mere crew member, and not Kawamori himself who admitted his own mistakes in initially not being able to see Sheryl's potential.


And, he said this about Ranka:

周りから理解されないかもしれないし

Unable to comprehend her surroundings.

He also referred to Ranka as a child.


As for the triangle:

三角関係は永遠のテーマですよね、きっと。1対1では親密な反面、閉鎖的な感じがするけど.. .

He talked about how the triangle is an eternal theme. At the same time he referred to the pairing with Sheryl having profound intimacy, while with Ranka having a directly opposite, introverted feelings or lacking solid foundation.

Any questions?

Now, where is your evidence from the big man himself?

- Tak (Spending an entire night arguing with a teenager... might as well get used to it, have to go through that stage sooner or later...)

[TwilightHack]

You want hard evidence that Alto and Ranka had deeper feelings? Can't you see it in the story? I'll quote them for you if you ask nicely too.:cool:
Actually, the story made it clear during Ep23 that Ranka was just a conduit to run away from his problems.

As for deeper feelings? Perhaps misguided feelings in the past. But now? I don't think so. :cool:

[Tak]

Actually, the story made it clear during Ep23 that Ranka was just a conduit to run away from his problems.

No kidding, flying was a way for him to escape his problems. It was shown as a metaphor by the interactions between him and his mother. Thus, he finally realized he can no longer escape, and said it himself "Perhaps I have been using her as an excuse". Is that love? I wonder.

- Tak

[raile]

Actually, the story made it clear during Ep23 that Ranka was just a conduit to run away from his problems.

As for deeper feelings? Perhaps misguided feelings in the past. But now? I don't think so. :cool:

Ah yes, episode 23, where Alto said he'd be willing to kill Ranka. X3
Such deep love! :p

[TwilightHack]

Well, if it's in an OVA format, then of course yes.
Probably you never watch this anime before, but please allow me to use this anime as an example.

In cyber formula tv series, the male lead and female lead get together at the end. Then after 4 OVAs (each OVA has about 8 episodes, so there are about 36 "after tv series" episode), they even got married and live happily ever after. Now of course I would say it's canon that they got married since it's in the OVA. Now if the direcotr comes out and says in the interview that their personalities don't fit and probably will get divorced. Then am I supposed to say they got divorced at the end and state it as fact??? Of course not!!!!
Look, I'm sorry to have to burst your bubble... but no one would say something that outrageous and upsetting to the masses after a firm conclusion were given. It would lead to the complete and utter destruction of their career and image... as well as open the door to real threats.

Honestly, you may not see it but there is a fine line between acceptable by the masses and crazy.

Also, Cyber Formula differs from Macross in one specific way. It does not have one sole person that runs the shots. Fukuda still had to answer to superiors whereas Kawamori is his own boss on top of directing the story. That gives Kawamori free reign to say things that most other directors aren't able to.

Plus, many ppl interpret different meaning from that macross interview. Furthermore, director has to keep the topic alive for the movie. All these things combine and I would suggest let's wait for the movie and see.

If the director really wants to change the ending or give us more hint on who Alto would end up with, he now has the movie to do it (DYRL style or not would not be an issue), just like the new Z-gundam movie.
Kawamori has been pretty black and white in his interviews so it hasn't been hard to interpret his words "wrong". The only points that have really been option to interpretation are his comments on polygamy.

oh no, please spare me :heh:. How can I challenge you when you already say it in word that you are 10 times better than me :D

Kidding aside, I say it's neutral in ep 25....I always think Alto has more feeling to Ranka and Alto has more development with Sheryl, so it's hard to predict the development in post-25. Now I hope the director can put any of his new thought about the series into the movie.

Okay? I hope this issue is settled.

(I have some issues to deal with and seems like I can't reply in these few days, will be back on December....best of luck to all of you)
Oh noes! Sarcasm! What am I to do?

Rofl? Check.

So Alto has more development with Sheryl but more feelings for Ranka?

In this case I take a look back to Ep23, again, where Alto confesses to Klan that Ranka had been an outlet to run away from problems and that THAT was all over now.

I'm sorry to say, but he was pretty straightforward about how he felt Ranka THAT way THEN. Which even further strengthens the fact that ep25 was something pulled out of Kawamori's someplace where the sun don't shine.

EDIT:

Oh, here is that interview (http://www.presepe.jp/m44/sp/id/BeWkJEnOCYY=/#01), have fun.

*snip*

As for the triangle:

三角関係は永遠のテーマですよね、きっと。1対1では親密な反面、閉鎖的な感じがするけど.. .

He talked about how the triangle is an eternal theme. At the same time he referred to the pairing with Sheryl having profound intimacy, while with Ranka having a directly opposite, introverted feelings or lacking solid foundation.

Any questions?

Now, where is your evidence from the big man himself?
<3 Tak

[raile]

How can you have more development with someone but have more feelings for another person? That does not make sense. But doesn't matter as Kawamori has stated everything he has to state.

Sankyu, Tak. <3

[Father Hentai]

How can you have more development with someone but have more feelings for another person? That does not make sense. But doesn't matter as Kawamori has stated everything he has to state.

Sankyu, Tak. <3

polygamy. nuff said :D

[mechabao]

No kidding, flying was a way for him to escape his problems. It was shown as a metaphor by the interactions between him and his mother. Thus, he finally realized he can no longer escape, and said it himself "Perhaps I have been using her as an excuse". Is that love? I wonder.

- Tak

Dammit Tak, you scared the trolls away! And just when I was about to discover how severely their delusions affected them. :heh:

[BetoJR]

Better this way, I guess. The fun was starting to stop. :D

[magnuskn]

I have no problem with the character design, apperance wise...from those official poster and tv series (when they don't mess up the drawing). Some of the pics in official posters even display a more mature version of Ranka. That's why I immediately think of inconsistent drawing when raile suggested the problem with Ranka's appearance. Thanks for pointing out so no more misunderstanding would occur :heh:

Sheryl's face can be drawn really bad in some episode. It makes me even think how Sheyl can become a hot star with that face....thank god it's only in some episdoes, but it's still annoying

Well, they made a re-do of one scene in episode six, so I have high hopes that they´ll spend the money to re-do some of the more atrocious stuff in later episodes, too.

Like, the entirety of episode 8. :p

*edit* Well, damn, there goes that dream. On MW, Kresphy showed some re-done stuff for the BD release of ep 8, and it is only minor things. <sigh>


BTW, I love it when Tak delivers the smackdown. Reminds me of the good old days on Usenet. :D

[Mei19]

Oh, here is that interview (http://www.presepe.jp/m44/sp/id/BeWkJEnOCYY=/#01), have fun.

As for the triangle:

三角関係は永遠のテーマですよね、きっと。1対1では親密な反面、閉鎖的な感じがするけど.. .

He talked about how the triangle is an eternal theme. At the same time he referred to the pairing with Sheryl having profound intimacy, while with Ranka having a directly opposite, introverted feelings or lacking solid foundation.



Any questions?

Now, where is your evidence from the big man himself?
[/I][/SIZE])


Question!:D Is this it? Is this really 'that' interview? But isn't this the real translation?

三角関係は永遠のテーマですよね、きっと。1対1では親密な反面、閉鎖的な感じがするけど

"Surely, it's an eternal triangle. One couple's relationship is closer than the other"

Can you tell me. How were you able translate that to this----> "he referred to the pairing with Sheryl having profound intimacy, while with Ranka having a directly opposite, introverted feelings or lacking solid foundation."

You added something based on your own opinion, didn't you?:p It's the same thing that happened when you stated that Ranka was the one who was supposed to die. You shouldn't do that. That's twisting information.:eyespin: Non-japanese readers might think Kawamori really did say that "Alto is deaf to Ranka's voice and Alto and Sheryl are the one who has something going on." There's nothing worse than being fed false hopes. That's horrible. XD

[mechabao]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out which pairing Kawamori's referring to in that statement.

By the way, your posts remind me of that rabid, pre-teen, trolling Ranka fangirl from RC.

[Tak]

Question!:D Is this it? Is this really 'that' interview? But isn't this the real translation?


What, this is it :D This is the best comeback you can formulate? Surely you can do better than that. Ah, but the time cometh where I shall enlighten you... again, for the _insert number here_ time.

三角関係は永遠のテーマですよね、きっと。1対1では親密な反面、閉鎖的な感じがするけど

"Surely, it's an eternal triangle. One couple's relationship is closer than the other"

First of all, your so-called translation is terribly off. Sounds like you just threw it into Babel Fish and hoping it'd give you something. It contains missing information and further proves that you can't read.

The first sentence indicates that "Certainly (きっと), the love triangle (三角関係) is an eternal theme (永遠のテーマ)"

Then he goes on to compare. 1対1では親密. On one hand, there is shared intimacy for one couple.

The keyword here is 親密, which means shared intimacy, in a very physical and mental sense. A kind that involves more than just combing one's hair. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out which pairing shared more intimate moments together in situations that were sometimes intensely physical.

Then we go on to the next part:

反面、閉鎖的な感じがする

On the other hand (反面), the other side of the feeling was locked in. Keyword 閉鎖的な (Locked in or introverted) and 感じ (feeling). Where this was clearly a reference to Ranka. It also corresponds to what he said in regards to the description he gave about Ranka. Where he stated, quite clearly that a better comprehension of her surroundings (including her own feelings), and the braving of her personal bubble will be 今後の課題だと思います, or a lesson for her from now on.

Also, it does not help where a screen shot of Sheryl kissing Alto is used as a reinforcement on this part of the interview. When was the last time we saw Ranka do anything close to that? I wonder if she kissed Alto telepathically, no wonder Alto can't hear her.

I've already overthrew your beliefs about Sheryl, and proved my point with Ranka. By this time, you ought to just bow your head down in shame instead of coming back here and further embarrassing yourself.

Don't argue translations with me, for I'd smack you down again so hard you'd feel like you just had a trip through hell and back.

- - - - -

That said, where is your evidence? Hmm? Instead of coming here and downplay everything, you can at least try to post some evidence regarding something Ranka accomplished that was worthy of compliment by the big man himself. For example, reinforce with hard evidence regarding that very scene, which you thought had a deeper meaning than what was obviously conveyed to the majority of the audience.

Oh, thats right, you don't have any. But I won't tell. Shhhh

- Tak (Cmon babe, Keep on truckin'. I've got more than enough patience to deal with you)

[Father Hentai]

The keyword here is 親密, which means shared intimacy, in a very physical and mental sense. A kind that involves more than just combing one's hair. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out which pairing shared more intimate moments together in situations that were sometimes intensely physical.

which scenes do you mean? :D

- the cell phone
- catching her with almost nothing in concert because the his stuntmate made a mistake
- ripping of her shirt while under siege by the vajra
- catching her without undies where she explained what exatly happened or
- episode 22

just kidding i knwo what you mean, but getting tired and just want to express that this thread to turn much into a personnel typing wars. ^^