Romance in Macross

[magnuskn]

He does have a choice. Breaking an agreement and ending up in jail is a choice people make everyday. Some of them by doing injury to others in the name of "love". :rolleyes:

There is of course the added element that he is defending the lifes of the citizens of Frontier when he sorties, so that must also be taken into account.

I disagree with you, though, that if he would have had a real choice, he would still have gone away to sortie. It was clear from the scene that he cared very, very much about Sheryl at the moment and would rather have stayed with her.

Now, I don't technically disagree with you that he makes good choices by upholding his agreement with SMS. OTOH, what was he going to do? Kick his brother out of the car and run off with her? The contentious point seems to be whether Ranka keeps Alto from growing further as a character, because he needs to tend to her. Whether from duty or want, I don't see him subverting his own needs in lieu of the others.

I don't want to split hairs on this. Let's just agree that I see it as Alto is continuing on his path regardless of what other characters might want from him. As an audience, we could use a little more backstory on him about now though...

Oh, I agree that he needs some further backstory. Although, to be frank, the Sheryls past is about just as explored as his. It is only Ranka who has gotten much exposure of her past.

[Mughi]

...I disagree with you, though, that if he would have had a real choice, he would still have gone away to sortie. It was clear from the scene that he cared very, very much about Sheryl at the moment and would rather have stayed with her...

I don't think we really DO disagree though. I DO think that if he had a choice to just blow off the SMS call without significant repercussions, he'd have stayed with Sheryl, or dragged her back to his bunk again. There's a precedent there. But the discussion tonight hasn't been whether he'd have gone to support one girl or another given the choice to do so. Its been whether he's being held back in his personal growth by catering to either of the girls, more specifically Ranka.

I don't think either girl holds him back from anything. He largely does what he chooses to do, and what he does seems to lay on his path to growth, not sacrificing his growth in deference of others.
:cool:?

[magnuskn]

I don't think either girl holds him back from anything. He largely does what he chooses to do, and what he does seems to lay on his path to growth, not sacrificing his growth in deference of others.
:cool:?

And here is where we *do* differ. I totally agree with Justins excellent analysis, that Rankas dependency on him is holding him back.

Sheryl, OTOH, is much more independent and intuititive in regards to him, and therefore gives him the freedom to grow on his own. Her current crisis is not something which has grown out of her own personality ( which Rankas "crisis" has done ), but something which was foisted on her by Grace. Importantly, she has chosen to not burden Alto with her state of illness.

[Mughi]

And here is where we *do* differ. I totally agree with Justins excellent analysis, that Rankas dependency on him is holding him back.

OK... If we differ, then we differ. :eyespin:

But as I respectfully wrote to justin, the point he was making was based in assumption about a future relationship with Ranka as she is right now. No one I've read here has laid out a relevant argument showing HOW and where the evidence is that Ranka is currently holding Alto back in his continued growth as a character or an individual. Every Ranka discussion ends in Sheryl defensive shipping. From watching the series thus far, I see both girls as the opposite sides of the same coin and all Alto is doing is flipping it in the air and never calling it. I'm still pulling for both girls, and enjoying it that way.

...save or support one girl, then the other. Rinse and repeat. :D

[Marina Ismail]

I'll never understand why Ranka fans thinks it's ok for Ranka to depend on Alto so much, it's NOT a good thing and it won't help you out in the long run. Just how parents try to teach their kids not to depend on them around age 16+ when they tell them to get a job or give them responsibilities. Of course they will always be there when your back is against the corner, but they won't GIVE you things with out you trying to figure them out yourselves (well most parents that is).

Before Ranka can move forward and mature, she needs to let go of her mentality that whenever she has a problem (even little ones...) she needs to figure them out herself before she runs to Alto... he will always be there for her, don't get me wrong. But we really need Ranka to grow up and start acting on her own, with out running to someone else for advice all the time for her problems...

[cerrian]

OK... If we differ, then we differ. :eyespin:

But as I respectfully wrote to justin, the point he was making was based in assumption about a future relationship with Ranka as she is right now. No one I've read here has laid out a relevant argument showing HOW and where the evidence is that Ranka is currently holding Alto back in his continued growth as a character or an individual. Every Ranka discussion ends in Sheryl defensive shipping. From watching the series thus far, I see both girls as the opposite sides of the same coin and all Alto is doing is flipping it in the air and never calling it. I'm still pulling for both girls, and enjoying it that way.

...save or support one girl, then the other. Rinse and repeat. :D

I don't think Ranka is holding back Alto's character growth, but then again I don't think she makes any significant contributions to his growth either. The only times she has ever been a factor is Alto's meager character growth were in the initial episodes that lead up to Alto signing on with SMS and the Galia IV arc, Ranka rescue, where Alto grows and is recognized by his peers as an excellent pilot. Aside from those two events, Ranka has not been much of a driver of Alto's growth. You would think his participation in the Zero movie and the scene in Ranka's bedroom would lead to some Alto character growth, but in actuality it was the reverse where Alto was the catalyst/driver for Ranka's growth.

If you want to look at what has pushed and driven Alto's character to grow, then you'll have to look at his interactions with Sheryl because she is the radical element that forces him to react to new situations, go beyond his normal boundaries, and evaluate his inner self.

[Darial]

I see both girls as the opposite sides of the same coin and all Alto is doing is flipping it in the air and never calling it.

That is the problem, isn't it?:heh: Dude just need to make a decision and stick to it. :frustrated:

[Mughi]

I don't think Ranka is holding back Alto's character growth, but then again I don't think she makes any significant contributions to his growth either. The only times she has ever been a factor is Alto's meager character growth were in the initial episodes that lead up to Alto signing on with SMS Yes, where Sheryl's attitude about herself, gave him strength, and his witnessing Ranka's pain over possibly losing Ozma (loss of family again) gave him resolve. and the Galia IV arc, Ranka rescue, where Alto grows and is recognized by his peers as an excellent pilot. Also agreed, but Ranka was a victim of circumstances and outside forces... Nothing about her interactions with Alto brought him personal growth. She unwittingly presented him with an opportunity. Aside from those two events, Ranka has not been much of a driver of Alto's growth. You would think his participation in the Zero movie and the scene in Ranka's bedroom would lead to some Alto character growth, but in actuality it was the reverse where Alto was the catalyst/driver for Ranka's growth.

Thank you. Precisely. She neither helps him grow, nor holds him back. In HIS journey, she is neutral.

If you want to look at what has pushed and driven Alto's character to grow, then you'll have to look at his interactions with Sheryl because she is the radical element that forces him to react to new situations, go beyond his normal boundaries, and evaluate his inner self.

YES! I agree. And my point all along has been that one's muse or teacher isn't always an ideal mate. (Often they are a poor choice in a mate.) But I still don't ship for one girl over the other.

Well stated cerrian.

[MaiHikari]

And my point all along has been that one's muse or teacher isn't always an ideal mate. (Often they are a poor choice in a mate.)

It's not about being a teacher or muse. It's about inspiring the other person to make another step toward their own personal growth and development, toward self-actualization. Change comes from within, but it can be inspired when you're with the right person.

If your mate constantly relies on you for support, you can easily lose inspiration to improve yourself because you're constantly tending to them. But when your mate is independent, but at the same time supportive of your dreams and goals, then you'd be more inspired to go out and acheive them.

I said it before and I'll say it again. A working relationship is not just about being at the right place at the right time, but also moving at the same pace to the same direction. Otherwise, the gap only gets wider and the mate becomes more baggage than partner.

[Wesley84]

Who is Alto more emotionally invested in?

[Supah Em]

Its obvious. Himself :heh:

[risingstar3110]

Its obvious. Himself
Do not be silly, it's his mom =]

I do not say it's strange (since it must happen in real life as well). But how many guys you think will step into a room right after a Galatic Idol have "just" put his kimono on, and saw his mum who passed away a long time ago standing there instead?

[Crimson Cloud]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/Rodimus_Cloud/9fd24c0e4a78261197923b900fbb5ac8.jpg

When you see this picture, you'll understand XD

[Seifall]

This isn't a spoiler so I move it here.

LOL! Erm, no, we would not.

I'm surprised :D

Actually, in anime it is much more common that the innocent ingenue wins in a romance over the experienced forceful girl.

Macross is one of the few series which normally takes a different tack.

You all guys wouldn't stop to compare Misa with Sheryl... so if you really think you're right with your Misa/sheryl relation, what you just said Macross is one of the few series which normally takes a different tack is the the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I don't know how they could repeat the story...

Next to that, even if its more common that the innocent ingenue wins in a romance over the experienced forceful girl. a Sheryl who was compared to Misa who ends up with Alto is really a plagia from SDF love plot.

BTW, punctuation is your friend.

Sorry, You're right

[Tak]

You all guys wouldn't stop to compare Misa with Sheryl... so if really think you're right with your Misa/sheryl relation, what you just said Macross is one of the few series which normally takes a different tack is the the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Because there is no genuine chemistry between Ranka and Alto. It felt all the time like a bro-sis relationship. Sure, there were a few body contacts here and there, but I can't say any of their pairing moments were intimate. There were no sharing of personal feelings, no personal conversation, and worse, with Ranka just taking Alto for granted.

For Sheryl, Alto dropped a lot of guard, even lowering his dignity by going to the place he hates most.


I don't know how they could repeat the story...

I don't know how they could not give us a genuine love story.


Next to that, even if its more common that the innocent ingenue wins in a romance over the experienced forceful girl. a Sheryl who was compared to Misa who ends up with Alto is really a plagia from SDF love plot.


You can say the same thing about Macross Zero, but it felt more true than a Shin-Mao pairing.

- Tak

[Seifall]

Because there is no genuine chemistry between Ranka and Alto. It felt all the time like a bro-sis relationship. Sure, there were a few body contacts here and there, but I can't say any of their pairing moments were intimate. There were no sharing of personal feelings, no personal conversation, and worse, with Ranka just taking Alto for granted.

It was a bro-sis relationship at the beginning (which changed after) like the friendship between alto and sheryl which I think from Alto's side didn't change unlike from Sheryl's.
I totally disagree with you here :I can't say any of their pairing moments were intimate. There were no sharing of personal feelings, no personal conversation, and worse, with Ranka just taking Alto for granted
:eyebrow:
Let me jog your memory :) :


http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1548/lunar0000aq5hg0.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8623/lunar0001fp5hx9.jpg


http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3140/lunar0003eu8yk9.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1104/lunar0004dr5lq3.jpg



http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7481/lunar0005rp2hy3.jpg



http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7480/lunar0007ff8jg1.jpg


For Sheryl, Alto dropped a lot of guard, even lowering his dignity by going to the place he hates most.

Yeah and what was his reaction ? :

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1159/anime0009pq4kc0.jpg

He was saying come at Ranka's concert for the performance

I don't know how they could not give us a genuine love story.




They have already start:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/619/anime0010iw6yy1.jpg


Sheryl doesn't want to let go of his....... necktie/HIM..... :heh:
In his house with sheryl he mentionned Ranka, here also.... isn'it obvious ?
I wanted to pick sheryl pic to compare but........I couldn't find more than blush :uhoh:
In episode 14 when he rescued Sheryl .... 0 emotion, nothing except "I'm glad you're safe.....and Ranka ?....."
This is always about Ranka.... I'm sorry to say that you will never find a pic with AxS gazing intensely like AxR did in episode 13, the blush doesn't count of course(he blushed around the two countless times).
And I never saw Alto laught like he did with Ranka in his cockpit in episode 12...come to think of it he never laught with Sheryl...


You can say the same thing about Macross Zero, but it felt more true than a Shin-Mao pairing.



:D You're the first to compare the incomparable, ShinxMao and AltoxRanka :twitch::twitch::twitch: It was an unrequited love from Mao it's not the case with Ranka and Alto....shin didn't even look at her... No, really... :cool:

[magnuskn]

Gentlemen and Ladies, I think we have a worthy successor for ani_D. :D

[Westlo]

If by worthy you mean more "superior" in every aspect than yes a worthy successor.... Ani_d = Street Fighter, Seifall = Street Fighter 2.

@ Seifall

In general every observation of yours made me think

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/kayaus/PicardWtf.jpg

But the one to make me laugh the most was this one.

For Sheryl, Alto dropped a lot of guard, even lowering his dignity by going to the place he hates most.

Yeah and what was his reaction ? :

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1159/anime0009pq4kc0.jpg

He was saying come at Ranka's concert for the performance

Just lolz.

[Lostdreams]

Gentlemen and Ladies, I think we have a worthy successor for ani_D. :D

what or who's ani_D. I posted this before, but lost where I posted it.

[Teletha]

It was a bro-sis relationship at the beginning (which changed after) like the friendship between alto and sheryl which I think from Alto's side didn't change unlike from Sheryl's.
I totally disagree with you here :I can't say any of their pairing moments were intimate. There were no sharing of personal feelings, no personal conversation, and worse, with Ranka just taking Alto for granted
:eyebrow:
Let me jog your memory :) :


http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1548/lunar0000aq5hg0.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8623/lunar0001fp5hx9.jpg


http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3140/lunar0003eu8yk9.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1104/lunar0004dr5lq3.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7481/lunar0005rp2hy3.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7480/lunar0007ff8jg1.jpg

:D You're the first to compare the incomparable, ShinxMao and AltoxRanka :twitch::twitch::twitch: It was an unrequited love from Mao it's not the case with Ranka and Alto....shin didn't even look at her... No, really... :cool:

Oh yes, someone brought back the ~*flames in his eyes*~* in episode 13. And lol @ nearly every screenshot being from episode 13, the anomaly episode that is totally out of place in Alto x Ranka's relationship in the episodes following it. Alto has never acted like that again with Ranka, even when in the close confines of her bedroom, totally alone. If that was the whole pinnacle of their love, where did it go? It had no follow through.

Have you actually even seen the relationship between Shin and Mao? It's a lot like Alto and Ranka. So, no he's not the first person to compare.


They have already start:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/619/anime0010iw6yy1.jpg


That is her name. :heh:

[aneeshadc]

It was a bro-sis relationship at the beginning (which changed after) like the friendship between alto and sheryl which I think from Alto's side didn't change unlike from Sheryl's.

I disagree with you here. There is not only Friendship there b/w alto & sheryl but also attraction which makes for a powerful combination cause he's not only just attracted to her but he also likes her, respects her as an equal & enjoys her company. The fact that he things quite highly of her & has been inspired to join SMS mostly by her has clearly been confirmed in ep 19. And the fact that he's still attracted to her despite the shift in attention towards ranka in ep13-14 is clearly shown to us in ep 15 & 16.

I totally disagree with you here :I can't say any of their pairing moments were intimate. There were no sharing of personal feelings, no personal conversation, and worse, with Ranka just taking Alto for granted
:eyebrow:
Let me jog your memory :) :
I agree with Tak partly- There were no Sharing of personal feelings, no personal conversation on Alto's Part aside from his advice, but there was on ranka's side. Intimacy isnt just staring into each others eyes, but also disclosing pieces of yourself that you mostly keep hidden. Alto & Sheryl have done that with each other while Ranka has done that with alto, I cant say the same for Alto. IF you remember any such instances let me know, cos i dont.

I am so glad you posted these pics though I'm not too fond of them, while I'm not too sure abt being right, i can try & explain their 'intimate' moments for u & for me:p. Mmmm... this is gonna be hard.



http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1548/lunar0000aq5hg0.jpg

Okay, First you do realize that almost all of their moments occurs during danger or in the vicinity of danger or right after dangerous situations, so it is hard for me to give credibility to these moments because during danger, emotions are automatically in high strung mode, they dont necessarily have to be due to the person who is with you at the moment. So, in that 1st scene there, if I recall right, ranka is telling him hw much she values his support & basically giving him more credit than he deservers, so his 1st reaction there is just plain surprise.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8623/lunar0001fp5hx9.jpg


http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3140/lunar0003eu8yk9.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1104/lunar0004dr5lq3.jpg

Okay, these pics I agree with you that he is looking at her with more than friendship. I believe that ep 13 was the 1st time he begins to consider the possibility that she could be more than a friend & I do believe we need to credit Michael a tad bit for sowing the seeds in his mind earlier. He basically told alto to consider ranka's feelings, that she came all this way for u despite having a concert due the following day making him vaguely conscious of her feelings. It is my belief that after hearing this, he makes the conscious decision to be nicer to her & becomes aware of her in a way different from prior to Gallia 4 as shown by his contemplation of Michaels words when in the plane with ranka.
However it happened, I will give you that ranka scored big time here for being able to make him look at her differently than usual. But I do think she was in a way a distraction from Sheryl which he sorely needed since he obviously believed she was fooling around with him then & try as he might couldnt decipher if sheryl really had feelings for him or not so it is understandable for him to suddenly see his friend whom he likes fairly well & whose affection for him is quite clearly genuine. I dont believe he was consciously using ranka but just that its a definite possibility. I do think he has some feelings for ranka but he ( & the rest of the ranka fans;)) isnt able to decipher them yet & might be confusing a desire to protect with love.
So while all of those moments are real enuf, they really cannot ascend to the levels of intimacy shared b/w alto & sheryl, IMO.:p




http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7481/lunar0005rp2hy3.jpg



http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7480/lunar0007ff8jg1.jpg


For Sheryl, Alto dropped a lot of guard, even lowering his dignity by going to the place he hates most.

Yeah and what was his reaction ? :

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1159/anime0009pq4kc0.jpg

He was saying come at Ranka's concert for the performance






They have already start:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/619/anime0010iw6yy1.jpg


Sheryl doesn't want to let go of his....... necktie/HIM..... :heh:
In his house with sheryl he mentionned Ranka, here also.... isn'it obvious ?
I wanted to pick sheryl pic to compare but........I couldn't find more than blush :uhoh:
In episode 14 when he rescued Sheryl .... 0 emotion, nothing except "I'm glad you're safe.....and Ranka ?....."
This is always about Ranka.... I'm sorry to say that you will never find a pic with AxS gazing intensely like AxR did in episode 13, the blush doesn't count of course(he blushed around the two countless times).
And I never saw Alto laught like he did with Ranka in his cockpit in episode 12...come to think of it he never laught with Sheryl...






:D You're the first to compare the incomparable, ShinxMao and AltoxRanka :twitch::twitch::twitch: It was an unrequited love from Mao it's not the case with Ranka and Alto....shin didn't even look at her... No, really... :cool:[/QUOTE]

[Seifall]

Gentlemen and Ladies, I think we have a worthy successor for ani_D. :D

Thanks for the compliment :D But where are the argument ? :cool:
Saying there aren't because this is all nonsense will just proove I'm right ;)

If by worthy you mean more superior in every aspect than yes a worthy successor.... Ani_d = Street Fighter, Seifall = Street Fighter 2.

@ Seifall

In general every observation of yours made me think

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/kayaus/PicardWtf.jpg

But the one to make me laugh the most was this one.



Just lolz.

:heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh: (This is not even enough...)............ Yes, I picked the pic when he was seeing her as his mother but nothing just a surprise look and right after that Sheryl argue with him and this gives that :

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4984/anime0008sd6fd2.jpg

You should try with argument, you don't have one so you post this :

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/kayaus/PicardWtf.jpg

You're the # 1 worthy of the street fighter term.
Should I all remind you and magnuskun included what was the context ?


Because there is no genuine chemistry between Ranka and Alto. It felt all the time like a bro-sis relationship. Sure, there were a few body contacts here and there, but I can't say any of their pairing moments were intimate. There were no sharing of personal feelings, no personal conversation, and worse, with Ranka just taking Alto for granted.

For Sheryl, Alto dropped a lot of guard, even lowering his dignity by going to the place he hates most.
I don't know how they could not give us a genuine love story.
You can say the same thing about Macross Zero, but it felt more true than a Shin-Mao pairing.

- Tak


So for you Westlo and magnuskun there : is no genuine chemistry between Ranka and Alto. It felt all the time like a bro-sis relationship. Sure, there were a few body contacts here and there, but I can't say any of their pairing moments were intimate. There were no sharing of personal feelings, no personal conversation, and worse, with Ranka just taking Alto for granted.
:twitch:

I just desmontrated with pic I picked from episode that what Tak said was absolutely contestable. And I gived proof to indorse this in showing what he said was in fact the total opposite of the facts.
If you don't have anything to say except I think we have a worthy successor for ani_D or In general every observation of yours made me think
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/kayaus/PicardWtf.jpg
Well how can I help you then ? :)

So OK Tak is right in what he said, I'm wrong and a totally desilusional fan :twitch:
But when Tak post this in the thread of the episode 20 .irrelevant with the episode .....

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1200/1423877iu1.jpg


It's all I guess we all have to vent our frustration one way or another. :heh:;) By the way...the one that you posted was quite moving....
[/B]

For you, I post some irrelevant picture in making those saying nonsense but when someone post a picture to take away his worries Magnus and Westlo have nothing to say because this is about sheryl ?
:heh:

I picked Tak doujinshi and others answers to express my thought about how irrelevant Westlo and Magnuskun post are, I have nothing against it knowing I even respond and post a comment about it. So don't get me wrong ;)

[Seifall]

Oh yes, someone brought back the ~*flames in his eyes*~* in episode 13. And lol @ nearly every screenshot being from episode 13, the anomaly episode that is totally out of place in Alto x Ranka's relationship in the episodes following it. Alto has never acted like that again with Ranka, even when in the close confines of her bedroom, totally alone. If that was the whole pinnacle of their love, where did it go? It had no follow through.

Have you actually even seen the relationship between Shin and Mao? It's a lot like Alto and Ranka. So, no he's not the first person to compare. .
That is her name. :heh:



Have you actually even seen the relationship between Shin and Mao? What is that supposed to mean ? I'm lying and didn't even see M Zero ? :eyebrow:
Yes Tak post was in part saying, Alto and Ranka never had any romance relationship so I don't know why i will take pic of others episode if I can demonstrate it with just one .
You said That is her name. :heh: speaking of what I said about alto's sentence to sheryl , what I did I don't know why i will take pic of others episode if I can demonstrate it with just one . is called logical.

No I'm not mean just sick to see people who normaly don't quote me , respond to my post just to make a fool of me ? Don't bother you to try ;)

[justinstrife]

Alto mentioned Sheryl going to Ranka's concert, because that's where he, Michael, and Luca are doing their stunt performance. He wanted to show Sheryl how much he had improved as a pilot. It had nothing to do with Ranka. It had everything to do with how much he had grown, because of Sheryl's words since he'd met her. She had inspired him, and he wanted to repay her, by inspiring her himself.

This is why, when he's doing the stunts, he tells Sheryl(to himself), Watch this Sheryl.

He was thinking about Sheryl during the entire stunt! Seifall, it's great that you keep bringing up episode 13. Too bad, there's been no relationship growth between Alto and Ranka since then! Infact, they've gone back to how they were in the Pre episode 12 sense.

I understand you're grasping at straws here... And I commend you for taking the baton from ani_d, and running with it, but just like her, you have a tendency to either twist scenes to your advantage, or totally disregard scenes that have happened after the ones in your argument.

Much anime you have to watch young padawin. :)

[Deryns]

what or who's ani_D. I posted this before, but lost where I posted it.

One of the more hardcore Ranka x Alto shippers. Well known for her "spirited debates" with the Sheryl fans.;) Hasn't posted in a while though, if you go to the mid-fifties page of this thread there is some of her work.

Anyone else think ep 20 will be important for the new Alto/Sheryl support group as well as the triangle?

[Seifall]

Alto mentioned Sheryl going to Ranka's concert, because that's where he, Michael, and Luca are doing their stunt performance. He wanted to show Sheryl how much he had improved as a pilot. It had nothing to do with Ranka. It had everything to do with how much he had grown, because of Sheryl's words since he'd met her. She had inspired him, and he wanted to repay her, by inspiring her himself.

This is why, when he's doing the stunts, he tells Sheryl(to himself), Watch this Sheryl.

He was thinking about Sheryl during the entire stunt! Seifall, it's great that you keep bringing up episode 13. Too bad, there's been no relationship growth between Alto and Ranka since then! Infact, they've gone back to how they were in the Pre episode 12 sense.

I understand you're grasping at straws here... And I commend you for taking the baton from ani_d, and running with it, but just like her, you have a tendency to either twist scenes to your advantage, or totally disregard scenes that have happened after the ones in your argument.

Much anime you have to watch young padawin. :)

I disagree with you here. There is not only Friendship there b/w alto & sheryl but also attraction which makes for a powerful combination cause he's not only just attracted to her but he also likes her, respects her as an equal & enjoys her company. The fact that he things quite highly of her & has been inspired to join SMS mostly by her has clearly been confirmed in ep 19. And the fact that he's still attracted to her despite the shift in attention towards ranka in ep13-14 is clearly shown to us in ep 15 & 16.


I agree with Tak partly- There were no Sharing of personal feelings, no personal conversation on Alto's Part aside from his advice, but there was on ranka's side. Intimacy isnt just staring into each others eyes, but also disclosing pieces of yourself that you mostly keep hidden. Alto & Sheryl have done that with each other while Ranka has done that with alto, I cant say the same for Alto. IF you remember any such instances let me know, cos i dont.

I am so glad you posted these pics though I'm not too fond of them, while I'm not too sure abt being right, i can try & explain their 'intimate' moments for u & for me:p. Mmmm... this is gonna be hard.



http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1548/lunar0000aq5hg0.jpg

Okay, First you do realize that almost all of their moments occurs during danger or in the vicinity of danger or right after dangerous situations, so it is hard for me to give credibility to these moments because during danger, emotions are automatically in high strung mode, they dont necessarily have to be due to the person who is with you at the moment. So, in that 1st scene there, if I recall right, ranka is telling him hw much she values his support & basically giving him more credit than he deservers, so his 1st reaction there is just plain surprise.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8623/lunar0001fp5hx9.jpg


http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3140/lunar0003eu8yk9.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1104/lunar0004dr5lq3.jpg

Okay, these pics I agree with you that he is looking at her with more than friendship. I believe that ep 13 was the 1st time he begins to consider the possibility that she could be more than a friend & I do believe we need to credit Michael a tad bit for sowing the seeds in his mind earlier. He basically told alto to consider ranka's feelings, that she came all this way for u despite having a concert due the following day making him vaguely conscious of her feelings. It is my belief that after hearing this, he makes the conscious decision to be nicer to her & becomes aware of her in a way different from prior to Gallia 4 as shown by his contemplation of Michaels words when in the plane with ranka.
However it happened, I will give you that ranka scored big time here for being able to make him look at her differently than usual. But I do think she was in a way a distraction from Sheryl which he sorely needed since he obviously believed she was fooling around with him then & try as he might couldnt decipher if sheryl really had feelings for him or not so it is understandable for him to suddenly see his friend whom he likes fairly well & whose affection for him is quite clearly genuine. I dont believe he was consciously using ranka but just that its a definite possibility. I do think he has some feelings for ranka but he ( & the rest of the ranka fans;)) isnt able to decipher them yet & might be confusing a desire to protect with love.
So while all of those moments are real enuf, they really cannot ascend to the levels of intimacy shared b/w alto & sheryl, IMO.:p




http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7481/lunar0005rp2hy3.jpg



http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7480/lunar0007ff8jg1.jpg


For Sheryl, Alto dropped a lot of guard, even lowering his dignity by going to the place he hates most.

Yeah and what was his reaction ? :

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1159/anime0009pq4kc0.jpg

He was saying come at Ranka's concert for the performance






They have already start:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/619/anime0010iw6yy1.jpg


Sheryl doesn't want to let go of his....... necktie/HIM..... :heh:
In his house with sheryl he mentionned Ranka, here also.... isn'it obvious ?
I wanted to pick sheryl pic to compare but........I couldn't find more than blush :uhoh:
In episode 14 when he rescued Sheryl .... 0 emotion, nothing except "I'm glad you're safe.....and Ranka ?....."
This is always about Ranka.... I'm sorry to say that you will never find a pic with AxS gazing intensely like AxR did in episode 13, the blush doesn't count of course(he blushed around the two countless times).
And I never saw Alto laught like he did with Ranka in his cockpit in episode 12...come to think of it he never laught with Sheryl...






:D You're the first to compare the incomparable, ShinxMao and AltoxRanka :twitch::twitch::twitch: It was an unrequited love from Mao it's not the case with Ranka and Alto....shin didn't even look at her... No, really... :cool:

I will respond after the 20 end :)

[aneeshadc]

It was a bro-sis relationship at the beginning (which changed after) like the friendship between alto and sheryl which I think from Alto's side didn't change unlike from Sheryl's.

I disagree with you here. There is not only Friendship there b/w alto & sheryl but also attraction which makes for a powerful combination cause he's not only just attracted to her but he also likes her, respects her as an equal & enjoys her company. The fact that he things quite highly of her & has been inspired to join SMS mostly by her has clearly been confirmed in ep 19. And the fact that he's still attracted to her despite the shift in attention towards ranka in ep13-14 is clearly shown to us in ep 15 & 16.

I totally disagree with you here :I can't say any of their pairing moments were intimate. There were no sharing of personal feelings, no personal conversation, and worse, with Ranka just taking Alto for granted
:eyebrow:
Let me jog your memory :) :

I agree with Tak partly- There were no Sharing of personal feelings, no personal conversation on Alto's Part aside from his advice, but there was on ranka's side. Intimacy isnt just staring into each others eyes, but also disclosing pieces of yourself that you mostly keep hidden. Alto & Sheryl have done that with each other while Ranka has done that with alto, I cant say the same for Alto. IF you remember any such instances let me know, cos i dont.

I am so glad you posted these pics though I'm not too fond of them, while I'm not too sure abt being right, i can try & explain their 'intimate' moments for u & for me:p. Mmmm... this is gonna be hard.



http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1548/lunar0000aq5hg0.jpg

Okay, First you do realize that almost all of their moments occurs during danger or in the vicinity of danger or right after dangerous situations, so it is hard for me to give credibility to these moments because during danger, emotions are automatically in high strung mode, they dont necessarily have to be due to the person who is with you at the moment. So, in that 1st scene there, if I recall right, ranka is telling him hw much she values his support & basically giving him more credit than he deservers, so his 1st reaction there is just plain surprise.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8623/lunar0001fp5hx9.jpg


http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3140/lunar0003eu8yk9.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1104/lunar0004dr5lq3.jpg

Okay, these pics I agree with you that he is looking at her with more than friendship. I believe that ep 13 was the 1st time he begins to consider the possibility that she could be more than a friend & I do believe we need to credit Michael a tad bit for sowing the seeds in his mind earlier. He basically told alto to consider ranka's feelings, that she came all this way for u despite having a concert due the following day making him vaguely conscious of her feelings. It is my belief that after hearing this, he makes the conscious decision to be nicer to her & becomes aware of her in a way different from prior to Gallia 4 as shown by his contemplation of Michaels words when in the plane with ranka.
However it happened, I will give you that ranka scored big time here for being able to make him look at her differently than usual. But I do think she was in a way a distraction from Sheryl which he sorely needed since he obviously believed she was fooling around with him then & try as he might couldnt decipher if sheryl really had feelings for him or not so it is understandable for him to suddenly see his friend whom he likes fairly well & whose affection for him is quite clearly genuine. I dont believe he was consciously using ranka but just that its a definite possibility. I do think he has some feelings for ranka but he ( & the rest of the ranka fans;)) isnt able to decipher them yet & might be confusing a desire to protect with love.
So while all of those moments are real enuf, they really cannot ascend to the levels of intimacy shared b/w alto & sheryl, IMO.:p
The flames in his eyes are only to emphasize the moments, because without them its hard to classify their interacton as romantic unlike interactions with sheryl which seem more real to me.:D



http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7481/lunar0005rp2hy3.jpg
Ahhh! Isnt it quite obvious this blush is wholly out of embarrassment, I think her embarrassment at being so close to him rubbed off on him, cos initially he didnt even realize he was holding her & even after the little green critter ran away, he looks at her normallly, sees her blushing & begins blushing in return quite unlike the time in ep 16 when alto gets close to sheryl to try to look at her earing & realize hw close their faces are when michael knocks, they blush at the same time & look away. Not to say any of this means anything & i'm obviously reaching & it doesnt change the fact that he responded romantically to ranka as well, but its fun to guess, compare & reach smtimes:p Silly i knw.



http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7480/lunar0007ff8jg1.jpg
Again, in the vicinity of danger & there is also the fact that a lot of guilt is also involved since it was his responsibility to see her home safely & all that, 4got to mention. so guilt could also be mixed in with his desire to protect & his 1st romantic awareness of her.

For Sheryl, Alto dropped a lot of guard, even lowering his dignity by going to the place he hates most.

Yeah and what was his reaction ? :

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1159/anime0009pq4kc0.jpg

I never understood y everyne expected a sweet reunion to happen here. It was quite obvious that keeping with her character, once she had time to think through things, she would try to push him away. Her abrasiveness there was deliberate, to drive him away, not to stay strong.

He was saying come at Ranka's concert for the performance

Yes, to show her hw much effect her take on destiny in ep 3 had on him & his performance.
The fact that he is hurt & angry at her dismissing her own hardwork & giving up what he clearly knew she loved doing speaks volumes of hw much he knows & understands her.
The fact that he asks her to definitely come watch him doing his flying stunts shows that he hasnt given up on her & doesnt buy her act despite hw rude she is to him.







They have already start:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/619/anime0010iw6yy1.jpg

Well, of course, Because of Michael, nw he knows clearly that ranka likes him, so of course, he'd say her name there. Some pple interpret that scene as alto feeling guilty, I think there is sm merit to that but not because he feels he has betrayed ranka but because he probably feels he has lead her on & feels bad fr hurting her. I know I felt guilty when I couldnt return my friend's feelings because he was a good friend & I really liked him but not that way, mayb I lead him on without even realizing it. i think thats wat Alto's face looks like. Though we cant be sure unless we know wat at happ there.


Sheryl doesn't want to let go of his....... necktie/HIM..... :heh:
In his house with sheryl he mentionned Ranka, here also.... isn'it obvious ?

I already explained above y he mentions ranka in his house, because he feels that sheryl inspired both him & ranka in their respective careers & wanted to show her how much he had taken her words to heart & to see for herself hw much of a difference she had made in his life.

I wanted to pick sheryl pic to compare but........I couldn't find more than blush :uhoh:
In episode 14 when he rescued Sheryl .... 0 emotion, nothing except "I'm glad you're safe.....and Ranka ?....."
I disagree, There was emotion there, He was relieved to see her safe. The fact that he made an effort to smile gently at her during his panic & worry for ranka Shows that though athatm Ranka was his priority, Sheryl wasnt far behind & that I believe is also due to the fact he trusts in her ability to take care of her self. Also there is the fact that once again he drew strength from Sheryl when he was panicking abt ranka being captured & asks her & michael to save her.

This is always about Ranka.... I'm sorry to say that you will never find a pic with AxS gazing intensely like AxR did in episode 13, the blush doesn't count of course(he blushed around the two countless times).
True, cos They're always being interrupted by the plot, the plot has to move on u see & there will be plenty of time for that later:D
And I never saw Alto laught like he did with Ranka in his cockpit in episode 12...come to think of it he never laught with Sheryl...
Okay, them laughing so hard in the plane wasnt because of ranka, specifically per se, I think its more a psychological reaction to having just escaped with their lives by a hairsbreadth & on his birthday no less. The whole situation is kinda funny when u think abt it in the aftermath & they both reacted to that.
And He has laughed with Sheryl on their star date & that time it was specifically due to her antics.






:D You're the first to compare the incomparable, ShinxMao and AltoxRanka :twitch::twitch::twitch: It was an unrequited love from Mao it's not the case with Ranka and Alto....shin didn't even look at her... No, really... :cool:

[aneeshadc]

Crap! I messed up the quotes but hopefully u get me. And i 4got to mention that in ep 17, it didnt seem like he even remembered his newfound awareness of her, a blush would have been quite appropriate when ranka says they are alone at home, but we get nothing & before that in ep 16 we see the next time he blushes after the ep13-15 fiasco is with sheryl.

[Elazul]

I agree with Tak and aneeshadc.

As the series keeps progressing, we are getting more and more Sheryl x Alto development, while Ranka’s dependency on Alto is growing stronger…
A love triangle must be based on character development and their interactions. Of course Ranka highest point was on episode 13, when she and Alto stared at each other for a brief period of time. But even this was shown after Ranka said to Alto that she is more confident now because Alto helped her. And we all know that he is portrayed being moody and with some internal conflicts. I really doubt that he would like an insecure girl that relies so much on him, quickly he will get pissed off. Though is possible to assume that Ranka’s words touched him romantically. But given his nature, I too can guess that he thought about how much Ranka is dependent, or something along those lines.
For the sake of a Ranka x Alto ending, she needs to interact more with him. But the series is coming to an end. And my bet is that the love triangle soon will be solved, or we will know Alto true feelings at least. He confessing to Ranka is less probably and unrealistic, because there is no reason for him to do this. His words will be something like: ’’Ranka I love you because I just love you’’ or ‘’Ranka, I love you because you need to be protected’’. If something like this will come to happen, then it’s is a sign of poor storytelling.

[cerrian]

I agree with Tak and aneeshadc.

As the series keeps progressing, we are getting more and more Sheryl x Alto development, while Ranka’s dependency on Alto is growing stronger…
A love triangle must be based on character development and their interactions. Of course Ranka highest point was on episode 13, when she and Alto stared at each other for a brief period of time. But even this was shown after Ranka said to Alto that she is more confident now because Alto helped her. And we all know that he is portrayed being moody and with some internal conflicts. I really doubt that he would like an insecure girl that relies so much on him, quickly he will get pissed off. Though is possible to assume that Ranka’s words touched him romantically. But given his nature, I too can guess that he thought about how much Ranka is dependent, or something along those lines.
For the sake of a Ranka x Alto ending, she needs to interact more with him. But the series is coming to an end. And my bet is that the love triangle soon will be solved, or we will know Alto true feelings at least. He confessing to Ranka is less probably and unrealistic, because there is no reason for him to do this. His words will be something like: ’’Ranka I love you because I just love you’’ or ‘’Ranka, I love you because you need to be protected’’. If something like this will come to happen, then it’s is a sign of poor storytelling.

That's pretty much how I see things now. There's been such a lack of development between Ranka x Alto that for the production team to pull it off now and convince the audience, it would come at the expense of the plot and other character developments. Realistically, if the plot is to be concluded satisfactorily and all the loose ends tied up, then the Sheryl x Alto path is the only way forward with limited amount of episodes left.

Looking back on the last 19 eps, I'm kinda disappointed that the Ranka x Alto pairing wasn't more developed that what it currently is. It really is unfortunate because Ranka would have been a great character had she been allowed to grow and mature, but as it is she's still nothing but a childish, loli, pop-idol, moe-blob.

[justinstrife]

, but as it is she's still nothing but a childish, loli, pop-idol, moe-blob.

That's about it in a nutshell.

[Mughi]

...Looking back on the last 19 eps, I'm kinda disappointed that the Ranka x Alto pairing wasn't more developed that what it currently is. It really is unfortunate because Ranka would have been a great character had she been allowed to grow and mature, but as it is she's still nothing but a childish, loli, pop-idol, moe-blob.

I still have no preference of one girl over the other because I do like them both so much, but to me, the LACK of development between RankaxAlto puts MORE weight on their eventual hookup. It's been VERY typical of this series to set up a red herring and then switcheroo at the 11th hour. I feel like that's the challenge the staff is facing and will take up in this final arc.

In SDFM, it wasn't until the last couple of episodes that we got the strong signals about where Hikaru was favoring, or even more fully developing his love for either of the girls. Finally at the end he makes his choice. The one he's seemingly been favoring, Minmay, by chasing and rescuing all along, ends up going her way. And since we've seen reversals from SDFM, I.E. the Roy Focker character, Ozma, DOESN'T die, and the Max equivalent, Mikhail does... well it stands to reason that there's a 50/50 chance they'll keep us building on the Sheryl front and then pull the rug out at the end.

The compass keeps swinging too much in this show to really know, so all of the shipping wishes are ultimately no more than that. You can provide arguments one way or the other, but for now, I see it being a coin flip as to where we end up.... Maybe even with the whole parting as friends possibility. :upset:

It sure will be amusing to see the comments from whichever side "loses out", once this series concludes though... all of the passion up to now will definitely need an outlet... I suspect there will be a LOT of alternate universe AMVs and doujinshi coming out by October/November... :D

[Lostdreams]

After watching the latest episode, I realized how much I don't care anymore about the love triangle. I believe that it's gonna be RankaxAlto and idc. Sheryl is awesome, she proved that in this episode. Alto doesn't deserve someone as great as Sheryl.

[nanatsusaya]

After watching the latest episode, I realized how much I don't care anymore about the love triangle. I believe that it's gonna be RankaxAlto and idc. Sheryl is awesome, she proved that in this episode. Alto doesn't deserve someone as great as Sheryl.

nah. I'll ship SherylxAlto as long as that's what she wants, and even just to prove that Ranka can never stand a chance against the queen :p

[glyph]

After watching the latest episode, I realized how much I don't care anymore about the love triangle. I believe that it's gonna be RankaxAlto and idc. Sheryl is awesome, she proved that in this episode. Alto doesn't deserve someone as great as Sheryl.

Too awesome to live, almost. I hope she doesn't burn herself out saving the day along with Ranka in the finale as her "I'll keep singing if it's the last thing I do" thought may foreshadow.

[Danish78]

nah. I'll ship SherylxAlto as long as that's what she wants, and even just to prove that Ranka can never stand a chance against the queen :p

I'll ship SherylxAlto as well as long as the Queen has the hots for Hime-sama. Arrgh!
I'm seeing some reasonable theory posts for RankaxAlto but seriously I hope this triangle resolves believably/logically in favor of our Queen. Long Live Skull Fairy!!!:D

[squaresphere]

Because I don't really think Alto is worthy of Sheryl and with Michel now out of the picture, I will now support KlanXShery!

[MaiHikari]

The series can go AltoxRanka but will have very little substance to support it. I always thought MisaxHikaru was the better pair all along, and was disappointed when Hikaru seemingly picked Minmay, but they fixed that at the end. The writers are not suppose to play tricks on the viewers, they're suppose to convey a message and that's their final objective. Kawamori knows better than that. To say that he'll end it for the sake of following SDM or reversing it is just nonesense.

[Tak]

Let me jog your memory :)

Yeah, haha, those are all from episode 13. Where did that 'love' of yours go?


Yeah and what was his reaction ? :


Whats that have to do with the fact that he lowered his guards and dignity to see Sheryl?


He was saying come at Ranka's concert for the performance


While he thinks of Sheryl this whole time, genius.


Sheryl doesn't want to let go of his....... necktie/HIM..... :heh:


Yeah, she also fucking collapased smartass. Try again.


In his house with sheryl he mentionned Ranka, here also.... isn'it obvious ?

And it is obvious that you failed to grasp the entire context of their conversation. Good job, try again.

While in her concert he was thinking of Sheryl, whats obvious now?


This is always about Ranka.... I'm sorry to say that you will never find a pic with AxS gazing intensely like AxR did in episode 13, the blush doesn't count of course(he blushed around the two countless times).

Ahem *20* cough * cough*

Never mind that when Ranka grabbed Alto's hand, she was thinking of her own brother!


And I never saw Alto laught like he did with Ranka in his cockpit in episode 12...come to think of it he never laught with Sheryl...

Hehehehehehehe vs. hahahahahahaha.

Yeah, FAIL.


:D You're the first to compare the incomparable, ShinxMao and AltoxRanka :twitch::twitch::twitch: It was an unrequited love from Mao it's not the case with Ranka and Alto....shin didn't even look at her... No, really... :cool:

Uh, no smartass, you started to first compare the incomparable when placing Misa with Sheryl despite the fact that Misa had been effectively replaced by Kathy as the bridge bunny boss. It is YOU who is clinging to established cliches and cannot accept the fact that character rivalries have changed to Songtress vs Songtress.

As for Shin and Mao, those look exactly like Alto and Ranka right now. Your belief in that being incomparable is simply wishful thinking on your part.

As for Alto and Ranka? Their relationship will probably never exceed bodily contact, let alone a kiss. If you don't agree with me, well, thats your problem.

- Tak (No, this one is not a successor, this one effectively surpassed them both)

[MUAHAHAHAHAHA]

Woah Tak, i couldn't agree with you more. And it is simply amazing how one could misinterpret things just to suit their own liking

[herbert]

Because I don't really think Alto is worthy of Sheryl and with Michel now out of the picture, I will now support KlanXShery! Welcome to SherylXKlan camp.

[Marina Ismail]

Ya... I think I might jump on the SherylxKlan camp as well. Alto is pissing me off, he now KNOWS they both like him yet he still won't give an answer.

[Haninozuka]

Ya... I think I might jump on the SherylxKlan camp as well. Alto is pissing me off, he now KNOWS they both like him yet he still won't give an answer.

And especially when the girl who's the best for him is such a damn crystal clear choice (Sheryl!). *head desk*

[Danish78]

I don't know.... I think if Ranka had only come a few seconds later Alto would have kissed Sheryl. I mean Sheryl was blushing and teary-eyed not even Alto could've resisted that unless he swings another way that is....

[Tabris]

Another one for the SherylxKlan camp :c

[Tak]

I don't know.... I think if Ranka had only come a few seconds later Alto would have kissed Sheryl. I mean Sheryl was blushing and teary-eyed not even Alto could've resisted that unless he swings another way that is....

Look, I am glad at least Alto didn't go "Ranka, this is not what you think it is!"

- Tak

[cheesie]

Woah Tak, i couldn't agree with you more. And it is simply amazing how one could misinterpret things just to suit their own liking

Let's give Seifall time to modify his/her posts as that post was made before Episode 20. :heh:

[aneeshadc]

Ya... I think I might jump on the SherylxKlan camp as well. Alto is pissing me off, he now KNOWS they both like him yet he still won't give an answer.

Wait a sec, I still think he's unsure of Sheryl's feelings, While rankas reaction to alto & sheryl atleast made it clear to alto her feelings for him, he doesnt have confirmation of Sheryl's feelings for him yet, just a suspicion sowed by Michael that Sheryl was the same as Ranka. While it might be clear to us, it isnt to alto, unfortunately.:(

[Danish78]

Look, I am glad at least Alto didn't go "Ranka, this is not what you think it is!"

- Tak

Absolutely!:cool:
Although I was a little bit disappointed that Alto didn't go "Awww, can't we just catch a break!? A few more seconds would have been enough!".:mad:

[aneeshadc]

Look, I am glad at least Alto didn't go "Ranka, this is not what you think it is!"

- Tak

Ya, me too. He didnt even go running after her immediately. He goes after her to ask her to sing not to explain.

[Teletha]

I don't get the Alto hate from episode 20. I thought he improved a lot and considered Sheryl's feelings and helped her out. Whispering voice ftw! Ranka, there wasn't much time to think about what was going on. I don't know what people expected of him when they are trying to survive there....

[aneeshadc]

You know theres something else i noticed while watching MF AMV's just nw , & the flame in the eyes that seifall is talking abt is act present in all couple interactions as far as i can see . I think it felt emphasized in ep 13 becos it was a close up scene. Can smone else check that for me or i wonder if I'm wrong & dont know hw to recognize flame in the eyes?

[aneeshadc]

I don't get the Alto hate from episode 20. I thought he improved a lot and considered Sheryl's feelings and helped her out. Whispering voice ftw! Ranka, there wasn't much time to think about what was going on. I don't know what people expected of him when they are trying to survive there....
Me neither, actually I liked him very much from ep 18 onwards. I loved the whispering voice and the fact that he continued to hold her when he didnt hav to, also the tender smiles, look in his eyes, sweeeeeeeet & full of win! an I loved their whole interaction, played only that part around ten times atleast. I cant help but wonder what would hve happened if ranka hadnt interrupted them.

[Haninozuka]

the flame in the eyes that seifall is talking abt is act present in all couple interactions as far as i can see . I think it felt emphasized in ep 13 becos it was a close up scene. Can smone else check that for me or i wonder if I'm wrong & dont know hw to recognize flame in the eyes?

I don't know if Alto's eyes can be considered "shimmery (http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3300/image00002oj1.jpg)" of "flaming (http://ippikiookami.squarespace.com/storage/02.jpg)" enough in this episode when he was talking to Sheryl, but I do think his expression was very affectionate and tender, compared to the "surprised deer caught in headlights" look in episode 13. :heh:

[MaiHikari]

I cant help but wonder what would hve happened if ranka hadnt interrupted them.

Mooching of course! And more echi stuff if time permits. ;)

I am proud of Alto in this ep. He didn't make his emotions clear (probably cuz it's not the right time), but his actions are evidently determined.

[Mughi]

Yeah, I thought asking Ranka to sing outright without acknowledging her obvious feelings was a little cold, but given the circumstances... Poor Alto, he can't make a decision and he can't catch a break to do so. I was impressed by his "I'll come back for you", or get you or whatever it was he said to Sheryl when they got separated, was a good note...

For her part, you all are cheering for Sheryl for standing up to be counted, and I am too, but you MUST all realize this is her shining moment of growth we've been waiting for. I'm seeing many of you treat it like a simple continuation of before and it most certainly isn't. This is the start of the new Sheryl... She might not be so coy the next time she sees Alto. She knows what hope love brings with it after being in the shelter. She knows what a difference it makes to get involved and not just get shuffled off in the proverbial limousine now... She has a reason to live and fight for what matters to her.

[Deryns]

Yeah, I thought asking Ranka to sing outright without acknowledging her obvious feelings was a little cold, but given the circumstances... Poor Alto, he can't make a decision and he can't catch a break to do so. I was impressed by his "I'll come back for you", or get you or whatever it was he said to Sheryl when they got separated, was a good note...

For her part, you all are cheering for Sheryl for standing up to be counted, and I am too, but you MUST all realize this is her shining moment of growth we've been waiting for. I'm seeing many of you treat it like a simple continuation of before and it most certainly isn't. This is the start of the new Sheryl... She might not be so coy the next time she sees Alto. She knows what hope love brings with it after being in the shelter. She knows what a difference it makes to get involved and not just get shuffled off in the proverbial limousine now... She has a reason to live and fight for what matters to her.

I agree with the part about disregarding Ranka's feelings coming across as cold however I chalk this up to his finally showing a mature and military point of view, as in now it is time to fight the Vajra not resolve personal feelings. Also agree that the Sheryl moment in the bunker was awesome but for me the true test of her development will be her reactions to Alto after learning of Michel's death.

[magnuskn]

I don´t get it either. I´ve been seeing Alto grow up more and more during the last batch of episodes, getting more personable and more comfortable around others.

This episode he almost certainly would have chosen Sheryl, wouldn´t Dog Ears have barged in... what more do you people want? A teary eyed confession during a Vajra attack?

I think we just saw what that brings you. :mad:

[aneeshadc]

I don't know if Alto's eyes can be considered "shimmery (http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3300/image00002oj1.jpg)" of "flaming (http://ippikiookami.squarespace.com/storage/02.jpg)" enough in this episode when he was talking to Sheryl, but I do think his expression was very affectionate and tender, compared to the "surprised deer caught in headlights" look in episode 13. :heh:

Uh huh, looooooved the tender, affectionate look that passed b/w them!:love:

Mooching of course! And more echi stuff if time permits. ;)

I am proud of Alto in this ep. He didn't make his emotions clear (probably cuz it's not the right time), but his actions are evidently determined.

WAaaah!:T_T: Ranka, u hav rotten timing!!!

Ya, alto was terrific this ep. he didnt do the cliche its-not-what-u think- ranka, He didnt immediately run after her, he didnt hug her or even try to say something comforting to her when she was crying her heart out, he just stood there shocked until sheryl came to the rescue. He asks her to sing for everyone, for the sake of frontier fully knowing that she's been singing only for him for quite some time nw. Also, I cant help but compare to the time when he tried comforting Sheryl in ep 6 when he outright told her it was tough for him to see her in a vulnerable state, even in ep 20, He made more of an effort to comfort Sheryl before ranka interrupted them. With ranka, he just seemed to be at a loss & didnt know what to do. He obviously knew y she was so upset , a simple its not what u think, I'll explain later, fr nw please sing or be strong for me wouldnt have taken that long. But He doesnt! There were so many ways he could have stopped her tears but luckily for us, he didnt try anything. Even if that doesnt mean anything, I still like that it wasnt alto who brought her back down to earth, but Sheryl. Shows that alto & ranka really dont know hw to deal with each other.......... act m sleepy dont know if I'm making sense. Thnx for ur translation of klan/michael scene, Rooftop & sheryl scenes, really helped. Do u think u could tanslate the alto/ shryl conversation too?

[lone_wolf]

I don't know if Alto's eyes can be considered "shimmery (http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3300/image00002oj1.jpg)" of "flaming (http://ippikiookami.squarespace.com/storage/02.jpg)" enough in this episode when he was talking to Sheryl, but I do think his expression was very affectionate and tender, compared to the "surprised deer caught in headlights" look in episode 13. :heh:


LOL, the flaming image is from my blog :heh:


--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

[Haninozuka]

LOL, the flaming image is from my blog :heh:


Ooh, it's your blog? Sorry for putting the image link. It was the only place I could find that particularly nice picture of Alto when he was with Sheryl. ^^;

If you like, I'll edit my post to remove the link.

[lone_wolf]

Ooh, it's your blog? Sorry for putting the image link. It was the only place I could find that particularly nice picture of Alto when he was with Sheryl. ^^;

If you like, I'll edit my post to remove the link.

No worries.:heh:


--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

[Lostdreams]

Uh huh, looooooved the tender, affectionate look that passed b/w them!:love:



WAaaah!:T_T: Ranka, u hav rotten timing!!!

Ya, alto was terrific this ep. he didnt do the cliche its-not-what-u think- ranka, He didnt immediately run after her, he didnt hug her or even try to say something comforting to her when she was crying her heart out, he just stood there shocked until sheryl came to the rescue. He asks her to sing for everyone, for the sake of frontier fully knowing that she's been singing only for him for quite some time nw. Also, I cant help but compare to the time when he tried comforting Sheryl in ep 6 when he outright told her it was tough for him to see her in a vulnerable state, even in ep 20, He made more of an effort to comfort Sheryl before ranka interrupted them. With ranka, he just seemed to be at a loss & didnt know what to do. He obviously knew y she was so upset , a simple its not what u think, I'll explain later, fr nw please sing or be strong for me wouldnt have taken that long. But He doesnt! There were so many ways he could have stopped her tears but luckily for us, he didnt try anything. Even if that doesnt mean anything, I still like that it wasnt alto who brought her back down to earth, but Sheryl. Shows that alto & ranka really dont know hw to deal with each other.......... act m sleepy dont know if I'm making sense. Thnx for ur translation of klan/michael scene, Rooftop & sheryl scenes, really helped. Do u think u could tanslate the alto/ shryl conversation too?

Ranka was like dying of happiness that episode holding Alto's hands

[MaiHikari]

Do u think u could tanslate the alto/ shryl conversation too?

I think the others have translated it at the beg of ep 20 thread, but here you go:

Sheryl: it's wonderful, isn't it? The stage.
Alto: are you going to sing again?
Sheryl: I told you didn't I? I wont sing anymore. Sheryl Nome is no longer... *faintns*
Alto: *rushes to Sheryl* Don't lie, Sheryl...you can't throw away singing... because you can reach many people. As for me, being an actor, I can tell a real performance from a fake one.
Sheryl: Alto...*tears*
*vajra queen makes a big bang entrance*

Alto: Sheryl!
Luca: Nanase!
Alto: wait a minute, Sheryl!
Sheryl: *holds Nanase* go! we are okay! go help out before it's too late.
Alto: but
Sheryl: who do you think I am?
Alto: *nods* I'll definitely come to save you. let's go! *Ranka lingers* Ranka! *grabs ranka's hand* why are you standing there?
Ranka: Alto's hand is hot. That's right. Before, someone was also holding my hand. At that time, his hand was very warm. *flashes to Brera as a kid*

[Ja-Y-Ce]

you know i suddenly have this rubbish thought in my mind.

Let's say. With Mikhal's death, there is "only" Klan knowing that Sheryl has this terminal illness and with the preview of the next episode - Klan looks like she will be on this suicide mood to get her revenge... so... *touchwood* if Klan is having the next pineapple salad...there will be no one "knowing" Sheryl's illness unless Sheryl, herself, telling Alto about it or... Grace goes bitching around the world...

If so, with Sheryl's new determination to sing on the stage and stuff... do you think that she might eventually collapse due to exhausation and stuff and this is when at the very last minute, Alto realises his feelings... but it's might all be too late...

then this love triangle actually get "resolved" and "unresolved" in a way... because.. our Queen's death *touchwood*, Ranka will learn something from it - slowly mature into a real lady with the "real" passion to sing for people, and not only for Alto hime and also to carry on our Queen's mission... to be the songstress in the macross galaxy. Maybe Alto, due to much regret and "enlightenment", will finally get back to his kabuki stage and reconcile happily with his Dad.... and thus no one actually get to be with Alto...

Rubbish and damn cliche plot - if they really pull this stunt out.. but I think that this is quite possible... given that Alto's seiyuu that the ending of this triangle will be surprising... what i see his "surprise" might be that... it can never get resolved.

and Kawamori will be doing all the battle scenes... diverting our attention that our Queen is still ill... if there is no mention of a cure in the next few episode... i am not going to be surprised for a tragic ending...

if i remember correctly, i have read a similar posting on Kawamori's interview - with him, mentioning that once Alto realises his true feelings, some actions will be taken on his part.
but there is no mention whether... will the so called "action" or "words" be a bit too late for all our ladies out there...

anyway, hehz, to save myself from unneccessary flaming, i shall just restate again that... this is just some rubbish speculation on my side... and no offense to either side of the shippers. ;-)

[solothurn]

@Ja-Y-Ce

It will be quite a sad day for all of us if it ever happens, but it's not impossible.

[Joachim]

@ja-y-ce:

nice speculation, but it will be damn sad to see that happen...

and i will be crying out loud for our queen

[Seifall]

Yeah, haha, those are all from episode 13. Where did that 'love' of yours go?


Yes Tak post was in part saying, Alto and Ranka never had any romance relationship so I don't know why i will take pic of others episode if I can demonstrate it with just one .

Yeah I'm the lazy kind I will not waste my time if I can do differently...
The point was to show a possible romance relationship between the two, which I did with just one episode.( well looks like it's pure crap for some, I can't blame them) :cool:
I'm really surprised that people keep telling me" OH, you just pick them in episode 13" like if I didn't have enough material to prove my thought...
1 + 1 = 2
0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 = 2 which is the fastest knowing the result is the same ?
You want me to pick all the pic from episode 1 to 20 just to come at a result which I know I can demonstrate on a simple way ? :uhoh: I hope this more clear now.
People can start to take the WTF picture or telling me I'm a worthful successor :D but seems like something as obvious as that wasn't for everyone ;)

If Tak ,you want to tell me that this " love of mine " disappeared since episode 13 then it inculdes that it existed no ?


Whats that have to do with the fact that he lowered his guards and dignity to see Sheryl?

If you wasn't in a hurry to find another of my " FAIL" just after my sentence you would have see what I choose to describe the pic : Spoiler for looks like he regrets it... doesn't he have a pretty disappointed face here ?

While he thinks of Sheryl this whole time, genius.

And I add this below the picture:
He was saying come at Ranka's concert for the performance

Where did I say the opposite ? :twitch::twitch::twitch:
Unless you just saw the Ranka written in bold type and directly jumped at the opportunity to prove me I'm so desilusional...

Yeah, she also fucking collapased smartass. Try again.

You know I'm not good at english so I didn't know what smartass meant and I found that: "smart ass" is not equal to "smart aleck." "Smart ass" is a swear, and definitely not to be used under normal circumstances.
?
Nevermind.

Yes, she also fucking collapased and still doesn't want to let go of his....... necktie/HIM..... :heh:
I'm not a magician, I can't change the facts. You say she collapsed, but should I remind you it was an assumption in episode 19 . You want me to say some irrelevant things instead to rely on facts ?!

And it is obvious that you failed to grasp the entire context of their conversation. Good job, try again.

:uhoh: I'm really really surprised here . YOU are the one who failed to grasp the entire context of this part of the post.
You said : I don't know how they could not give us a genuine love story.
Maybe you thought I quoted that sentence for nothing ?

and I reponded : They have already start:

After that only, I said In his house with sheryl he mentionned Ranka, here also.... isn'it obvious ?

While in her concert he was thinking of Sheryl, whats obvious now?

Ok I understand, you thought I was using that to say Alto doesn't think at nothing but Ranka ???????? :uhoh:
Sorry to disappoint you but I was talking about that : I don't know how they could not give us a genuine love story You try hard, very hard not to understand me but to slate me....
I began in showing Sheryl with Alto at episode 19 with the cliffhanger to after show they find the way to put Ranka in this genuine story at precise times in the story. Like when he was in his home( and no I'm not talking about when he say come at Ranka 'school but when he said Sheryl support him and Ranka) and at Mihoshi Academy.




Ahem *20* cough * cough*

Never mind that when Ranka grabbed Alto's hand, she was thinking of her own brother!

So what is the link here ? She likes Alto as a brother now ? :twitch:
This could be the surprising end we're all waiting you're right ;)

Hehehehehehehe vs. hahahahahahaha.

Yeah, FAIL.

Hehehehehehehe vs. hahahahahahaha.
FAIL ? Sorry I don't understand here. Failed to be understandable.



Uh, no smartass, you started to first compare the incomparable when placing Misa with Sheryl despite the fact that Misa had been effectively replaced by Kathy as the bridge bunny boss. It is YOU who is clinging to established cliches and cannot accept the fact that character rivalries have changed to Songtress vs Songtress.

@magnuskun Macross is one of the few series which normally takes a different tack.

and I answered him : You all guys wouldn't stop to compare Misa with Sheryl... so if you really think you're right with your Misa/sheryl relation, what you just said Macross is one of the few series which normally takes a different tack is the the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I don't know how they could repeat the story...
Don't count on me to pick up the lines when a lot of sheryl's fan compared her to Misa...
I don't know where you see that I'm clinging to established cliches and cannot accept the fact that character rivalries have changed to Songtress vs Songtress ?


As for Shin and Mao, those look exactly like Alto and Ranka right now. Your belief in that being incomparable is simply wishful thinking on your part.

I don't think so, but so be it.

As for Alto and Ranka? Their relationship will probably never exceed bodily contact, let alone a kiss. If you don't agree with me, well, thats your problem.

I totally agree with you if you remplace in your sentence Ranka by Sheryl :)

- Tak (No, this one is not a successor, this one effectively surpassed them both)

Thanks you're good too ;)


Woah Tak, i couldn't agree with you more. And it is simply amazing how one could misinterpret things just to suit their own liking

WoW ?? Amazing, you're right that's the word. I like this kind of post really. If you could develop more your point ( details..) than just (.Woah Tak, i couldn't agree with you more. , amazing )well it would be good but not going to happen unless you wake up and quit Lelouch's bed ? ;)

Let's give Seifall time to modify his/her posts as that post was made before Episode 20. :heh:

I will not modifiate it!
Why would I ? I don't see what I could possibly compare here.
Each his opinion, the end would prove me wrong or right. :)

I don't know if Alto's eyes can be considered "shimmery (http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3300/image00002oj1.jpg)" of "flaming (http://ippikiookami.squarespace.com/storage/02.jpg)" enough in this episode when he was talking to Sheryl, but I do think his expression was very affectionate and tender, compared to the "surprised deer caught in headlights" look in episode 13. :heh:

" the caught in the headlights" part is often use in anime to emphazided one kind of atmosphere...
But again, that's your opinion :)







Seeing how people reduce my own interpretation of the story at nothing but pitiful attempts show me no one here should try to show the other he is wrong because this and that..... Really people compared me to ANI_D but you should try to be a Ranka's fan here, you will stop laughing at me immediately.
I take some time to prove people something and they just jump to my comment on Alto's word about Ranka to Sheryl ? They ignore my post on the obvious romance relationship between Alto and ranka, because I said Alto is talking about ranka when he is with sheryl ?
You know what ? I knew it ....:heh: but I said to myself well the whole point is to prove X if i add Y to reinforce the equation nothing will change if I proved X right without needed of Y ? Result ? Y was picked like that at the second and people except few, ignore the main factor... really ....

[nanatsusaya]

Seifall I suggest you to go watch ep 20 before you make any more assumption :) It's Alto who made the first move to catch Sheryl and held her a bit longer than necessary, not the other way around.

[Seifall]

It's Alto who made the first move and held Sheryl a bit longer than necessary, not the other way around.


I think I'm going to be crazy here. Someone help me ! :eyespin:
WHERE DID I SAY SHERYL MADE THE FIRST MOVE ? Where?
I just said she didn't want to let his necktie not that she jumps on him first !
Seriously!

I said it in episode 19 right but this was a flash back from the end of the scene you're talking in episode 20.
You should read more carefully what I wrote. You would have seen that what I wrote about the episode 19 was a fact and not an assumption which would have turn into a total anachronistic post if I would have posted the opposite.


Seifall I suggest you to go watch ep 20 before you make any more assumption :)

Well from someone who said GO DIE RANKA I'm really pleased :)
And for information I did watch the episode when it airs moreover if not I don't know how I could have post in the episode 20 discussion thread and posted Mickhail 's death picture .:uhoh:

[nanatsusaya]

Well if that's it then I apologize :)

However, I don't understand why you're so irritated at how Sheryl didn't want to let go of Alto's necktie. Shouldn't you question why Alto himself didn't want to release his hold on Sheryl sooner? They were caught up in the moment before Ranka barged in.

[MaiHikari]

Reading seifall's post hurts my head...need some advil. It's misunderstanding piling up. It's not the language barier. Communication is a skill. And punctuation is somewhat helpful in this respect.

Sheryl was not hanging onto Alto's necktie. Nanatsusaya's point is they were holding each other so your basis from your anti sheryl arguement was offbase. And you DO need more episodes to make a convincing argument because the series is not a static picture; things change with each episode. It's not a simple addition math problem. Think derivatives.

[Seifall]

@ nanatsuya I'm not irritated at how Sheryl didn't want to let go of Alto's necktie . Why would I be irritate for that ?
I just responded to TAK's quote and was reffering to to genuine love story who already started.



@MaiHikari This is indeed the language barrier for me, if you can't understand me, I'm sorry.But I 'm doing my best the same goes for the ponctuation which magnuskun also awared me.

You all seem to ignore that the scene I was reffering to is a FLASHBACK from the END OF THE Nanatsusaya's point : they were holding each other << this scene from episode 20.
anti- sheryl argument ? I was talking again, about the genuine story Tak was talking about , in showing how this already started with the girl stick to the guy, Ranka's presence...

This isn't a static picture I agree with you. But if with just pictures, people can't admit there is something wrong with their reasoning or that I'm not totally wrong, at that time, I could have understand a critic.
But no, after quoting sentence without put those in their context ,they just tell me you're a successor, a desilusional fan, What the Fuck, LOLz, smartass, suggest me to watch the episode ...
How ,How should I take it ? This is not a simple addition math problem but when you don't even try to resolve it, rather it seems like your whole objective is to prove this is all wrong ; even derivates cannot change anything.

People should think I'm mean or something like that because I even respond when I feel like people don't want to discuss with me but dissing me that's all.
And I really think that's the point here.
Mike s 6 was saying me that Ranka's fan didn't disappear because they were kicked out, but because of their post who were irrelevant and someone said something about the pressure , and Sheryl's already hight popularity.
I though there were something true in there, but now,now, I really understand Ani-D who it seems I became the successor ?, OD Bleach , Ahn Minh and the others.

I don't want to bring again the question here but really this is, very SPECTACULAR. Aren't we here to discuss about anime and having fun not picking on someone ?
Ranka's fan are treated like if there were just here to put anti sheryl argument. But when this a sheryl fan no one from Sheryl's people here have nothing to say when someone post Ranka's pic saying puppy ? or this is the whole Ranka's fault, if Mikhail died?
I didn't see you make a remark like you 're doing with me , saying , "your anti sheryl arguement was offbase."

I'm not a mean person ( you will say I don't care me either) if not I would have rooted for Grace :heh:
But I can't even say something!!!!!! and this is turn automacally into a anti- sheryl argument?
I wil say it again the main point in my post was to demonstrate that there was a romance relationship between Ranka and Alto which Tak denied completely due to his opinion.
And what ? My whole post now turn around Sheryl and Alto ? Sheryl grasping alto necktie ? No, joke, what is that ?

I said in episode 20 that Ranka was 50% responsible of not being able to singed well , I talked about how she surprised me when Nanase was hurt, I even aknowledge Sheryl's performance in this episode which was really impressive.... I don't think I'm that much desilusional even if I'm on the other side.
I keep the smiley here but really... don't even ask yourself why there are so much Ranka's fan here .

[Tak]

@ nanatsuya I'm not irritated at how Sheryl didn't want to let go of Alto's necktie . Why would I be irritate for that ?
I just responded to TAK's quote and was reffering to to genuine love story who already started.



@MaiHikari This is indeed the language barrier for me, if you can't understand me, I'm sorry.But I 'm doing my best the same goes for the ponctuation which magnuskun also awared me.

You all seem to ignore that the scene I was reffering to is a FLASHBACK from the END OF THE Nanatsusaya's point : they were holding each other << this scene from episode 20.
anti- sheryl argument ? I was talking again, about the genuine story Tak was talking about , in showing how this already started with the girl stick to the guy, Ranka's presence...

This isn't a static picture I agree with you. But if with just pictures, people can't admit there is something wrong with their reasoning or that I'm not totally wrong, at that time, I could have understand a critic.
But no, after quoting sentence without put those in their context ,they just tell me you're a successor, a desilusional fan, What the Fuck, LOLz, smartass, suggest me to watch the episode ...
How ,How should I take it ? This is not a simple addition math problem but when you don't even try to resolve it, rather it seems like your whole objective is to prove this is all wrong ; even derivates cannot change anything.

People should think I'm mean or something like that because I even respond when I feel like people don't want to discuss with me but dissing me that's all.
And I really think that's the point here.
Mike s 6 was saying me that Ranka's fan didn't disappear because they were kicked out, but because of their post who were irrelevant and someone said something about the pressure , and Sheryl's already hight popularity.
I though there were something true in there, but now,now, I really understand Ani-D who it seems I became the successor ?, OD Bleach , Ahn Minh and the others.

I don't want to bring again the question here but really this is, very SPECTACULAR. Aren't we here to discuss about anime and having fun not picking on someone ?
Ranka's fan are treated like if there were just here to put anti sheryl argument. But when this a sheryl fan no one from Sheryl's people here have nothing to say when someone post Ranka's pic saying puppy ? or this is the whole Ranka's fault, if Mikhail died?
I didn't see you make a remark like you 're doing with me , saying , "your anti sheryl arguement was offbase."

I'm not a mean person ( you will say I don't care me either) if not I would have rooted for Grace :heh:
But I can't even say something!!!!!! and this is turn automacally into a anti- sheryl argument?
I wil say it again the main point in my post was to demonstrate that there was a romance relationship between Ranka and Alto which Tak denied completely due to his opinion.
And what ? My whole post now turn around Sheryl and Alto ? Sheryl grasping alto necktie ? No, joke, what is that ?

I said in episode 20 that Ranka was 50% responsible of not being able to singed well , I talked about how she surprised me when Nanase was hurt, I even aknowledge Sheryl's performance in this episode which was really impressive.... I don't think I'm that much desilusional even if I'm on the other side.
I keep the smiley here but really... don't even ask yourself why there are so much Ranka's fan here .

YAWN ~

- Tak

[Seifall]

Except Derrick your Volksrepublic Kalifornien is sure entertaining :heh::heh::heh:

[kilroy0097]

You know what would have been an extremely interesting character?

If the role of Mikhail was played by a Michelle. Yes do the Battlestar Galactica, Starbuck, switcharoo and have the Roy Focker character played by a female. She plays men's heartstrings like a violin and is an expert pilot. Then make Klan have some kind of yuri love for Michelle. Make it an awkward relationship in which Michelle is trying to hide that she also loves Klan and so attempts to distract herself with pointless relationships with men. Klan in the end finally tells Michelle that she loves her and Michelle finally admits to herself that she loves Klan as well. Then Bam Death Flags come true and Michelle dies.

Oh and Michelle would flirt and tease Alto just to tease him but really has no hidden agenda and is actually his best friend. i.e. Alto has no romantic interest in Michelle and vice versa.

Now doesn't that sound cool to you? Sorry just came to mind for some reason and so I had to share it.

[justinstrife]

I'm not big on yuri relationships, but the change-up does sound interesting I admit.

[Traece]

You know what would have been an extremely interesting character?

If the role of Mikhail was played by a Michelle. Yes do the Battlestar Galactica, Starbuck, switcharoo and have the Roy Focker character played by a female. She plays men's heartstrings like a violin and is an expert pilot. Then make Klan have some kind of yuri love for Michelle. Make it an awkward relationship in which Michelle is trying to hide that she also loves Klan and so attempts to distract herself with pointless relationships with men. Klan in the end finally tells Michelle that she loves her and Michelle finally admits to herself that she loves Klan as well. Then Bam Death Flags come true and Michelle dies.

Oh and Michelle would flirt and tease Alto just to tease him but really has no hidden agenda and is actually his best friend. i.e. Alto has no romantic interest in Michelle and vice versa.

Now doesn't that sound cool to you? Sorry just came to mind for some reason and so I had to share it.

Actually somehow I think that was the intention of the writers to begin with for the epic OMGLULZ!!! I think the joke was to make a character with a very feminine name who has a relationship with Klan-Klan, who's miclone form makes her look like a child, thus a pedophilic relationship if there was one. Give him a girl's name, and make him look very feminine in a certain aspect. Have him be Alto's best friend and tease him relentlessly about hooking up with women.

:heh: I'm not sad about him dying anymore.

:upset: Ok... NOW I am because I said that...

At least with Leon out of the picture as any sort of love interest, Kathy has herself a good man. I think some pity sex is in order.

NOT Gundam Seed pity sex though. The romantic loving sort for Kathy. Not the, "needy whore needs her fix because her captain daddy is a dead man," that a certain someone forced her way into getting. :eyebrow:

[Westlo]

what or who's ani_D. I posted this before, but lost where I posted it.

Check out this blog comments to see her "work"

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/macross-frontier-20/all-comments/#comments

I still have no preference of one girl over the other because I do like them both so much, but to me, the LACK of development between RankaxAlto puts MORE weight on their eventual hookup. It's been VERY typical of this series to set up a red herring and then switcheroo at the 11th hour. I feel like that's the challenge the staff is facing and will take up in this final arc.

Yes but instead of a nice twist what you're suggesting here is flushing down the drain the majority of the series and consistent writing. Endings can make or break a series and to do a RxA ending for lulz would be stupid and an amateur move, In kawamori we trust.

In SDFM, it wasn't until the last couple of episodes that we got the strong signals about where Hikaru was favoring, or even more fully developing his love for either of the girls. Finally at the end he makes his choice. The one he's seemingly been favoring, Minmay, by chasing and rescuing all along, ends up going her way.

Sheryl has Misa elements but she's also more DYRL Minmei while Ranka is TV Minmei. Also it was obvious to myself when I was 7 watching the Robotech version who Hikaru would end up with. Lol @ anyone who thought he would end up with Minemi in the second half and especially the end when she put those "stop flying" demands on him.

[aneeshadc]

I think the others have translated it at the beg of ep 20 thread, but here you go:

Sheryl: it's wonderful, isn't it? The stage.
Alto: are you going to sing again?
Sheryl: I told you didn't I? I wont sing anymore. Sheryl Nome is no longer... *faintns*
Alto: *rushes to Sheryl* Don't lie, Sheryl...you can't throw away singing... because you can reach many people. As for me, being an actor, I can tell a real performance from a fake one.
Sheryl: Alto...*tears*
*vajra queen makes a big bang entrance*

Alto: Sheryl!
Luca: Nanase!
Alto: wait a minute, Sheryl!
Sheryl: *holds Nanase* go! we are okay! go help out before it's too late.
Alto: but
Sheryl: who do you think I am?
Alto: *nods* I'll definitely come to save you. let's go! *Ranka lingers* Ranka! *grabs ranka's hand* why are you standing there?
Ranka: Alto's hand is hot. That's right. Before, someone was also holding my hand. At that time, his hand was very warm. *flashes to Brera as a kid*

Thnx! Sry, just liked hw u translated the other scenes, so I had to ask. Cos translations still vary slightly from person to person, more info, better understanding & all that. So, thnx.

[Elazul]

Check out this blog comments to see her "work"

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/macross-frontier-20/all-comments/#comments



Yes but instead of a nice twist what you're suggesting here is flushing down the drain the majority of the series and consistent writing. Endings can make or break a series and to do a RxA ending for lulz would be stupid and an amateur move, In kawamori we trust.



Sheryl has Misa elements but she's also more DYRL Minmei while Ranka is TV Minmei. Also it was obvious to myself when I was 7 watching the Robotech version who Hikaru would end up with. Lol @ anyone who thought he would end up with Minemi in the second half and especially the end when she put those "stop flying" demands on him.

I agree. They are beautifully developing Alto and Sheryl relationship on these 20 past episodes. Macross F is reaching its end, and even if they start developing Alto x Ranka properly, it will be a very bad move indeed. Because the entire Alto x Sheryl relationship will be wasted.
I have watched a lot of romance anime, and I need to say that Alto and Sheryl relationship is one of the best among them all. While some series tends to make one-sided relationships, Macross F created a couple that do feel like a couple, with mutual comprehension, and both supporting each other, slowly showing signs of love, and finally reaching a point where its pretty obvious that they do match each other…

Even on SDF Macross, where’s the love triangle was solved in the last episode, only one couple was properly developed. Hikaru X Minmay only lasted few episodes, after Mimmey become famous, their "romance" was all about Hikaru blindly in love with her, while she is kissing her cousin and giving a shit about him.
Meanwhile, Hikaru and Misa relationship was slowly developing, and before the end of the series, we already knew that Misa deserved Hikaru’s love more than Minmay.

[justinstrife]

Wish I could give you cookies(rep points) for such an eloquent post elazul. I agree 100% with you and your argument.

[aneeshadc]

Okay, I've noticed that people seem to have set different standards for Sheryl & Ranka & I really dont see hw this is fair to either girls. People automatically expect more from Sheryl because she is supposed to be strong While expecting less from ranka beause she is supposedy weaker than Sheryl.

This is wrong, why, because I dont see sm people as being stronger than others, I just see that sm people choose to be stronger than others. It is this choice & response that makes all the difference not strength of character which everyone possesses but some choose not to use.
This is the difference b/w Sheryl & Ranka.

It isnt that ranka isnt as strong as Sheryl, she just chooses not use her existing strength. She chooses to wallow in self-pity. Ranka fans trying to defend her actions with She's young & inexperienced, troubled past, heartbroken just feels like bullshit to me.

I like Ranka , Sheryl being my fav character, has no bearing on my liking for ranka. I started out liking both girls & Sheryl morphed into my fav ,primarily, because of the reasons(among other reasons) I stated above in bold. Because I like ranka, I dont like hw ranka fans while professing to like her still expect so little from her. Setting such low standards for Ranka isnt being fair to your fav character at all, IMO.

I dont buy ranka being young, why, because Sheryl is also young, klan is also young, nanase is also young & so are alto, michael, & luca. Ignoring the others, Sheryl & Ranka are only a year apart.

Both have tragic pasts, which ranka doesnt remember but probably worries abt in her dreams and Sheryl has a few vague memories of.
Both are dealing with Heart break ( dont giv me shit & tell me Sheryl isnt cause as far as I can see they are both dealing with the prospect of losing alto. Ranka to another woman, While Sheryl against death, she is dying & therefore also losing alto. Compare their situations & u will see that sheryl's situation is far more severe cos ranka still has a fighting chance to win alto from sheryl whether she believes it or not while Sheryl cannot fight against death even if she wanted to.)

Yet despite all these similarities, they respond in completely different ways. I totally agree with swampstorm ( Great post by the way ) that Sheryl & Ranka are foils to each other in hw they choose to respond to very similar situations.

Experience, I believe doesnt always bring with it maturity. Again, it all depends on the individual & his choices, u either learn or u dont. For example, Two sons growing up with an abusive, drunk father(unfortunate circumstance) may choose to deal with it in two different ways. While one chooses to become succesful in his respective career choice( positive response), the other chooses to become a drunk like his father abusing his wife & children in return (negative response). Just an example. While the situations are completely different, the concept behind it is the same.

Some mature with tough experience while others regress, some do not require a tough experience to become emotionally mature, while others do. So all the sheryl being more experienced talk is also quite vague & doesnt justify rankas actions. Age is just a state of mind, sometimes a 12 year old can be more mature than an 18 or 22 yr old or even older pple. Its hw u choose to define urself that matters.

I think I've covered all the most common excuses ranka fans use to explain her behaviour in ep 20.

Nw, Why I am disappointed with Ranka's behaviour in ep 20 is because she refused to sing for everyones sake when alto asks her to. This gives us a glimpse of her self-absorbed behaviour. Her crying was understandable but her wanting to die because sm guy she liked probably liked smone else was sad really, this shows us hw her whole life is centered around alto & herself.

As a woman, I really dont like the fact that she believes that her life should revolve solely around alto and if theres any guy that shares this chauvinistic, egoistic, pig-ass attitude of hers or even believes its the sign of true love:heh:, I am personally going to kick his sorry ass, & for good measure make sure he stays single forever so some poor girl doesnt hav to suffer his pompous attitude.:frustrated::mad:

I also dont blame Ranka for not being able to sing well, it is fairly, no, mildly ( mildly because, she doesnt decide this on her own, Sheryl had to literally slap some sense into her) ,commendable that she tries to sing despite her emotional unstability. While the vajra became more violent in response to her emotional state, Blaming her for it is still not fair because she didnt know, she wasnt aware, it wasnt intended on her part.
This is why, while she is absolved from blame or guilt, She is not absolve from responsibility. She is still indirectly responsible for the vajra situation & conseuently Michaels death & Klan's pain.

She is not to blame but she needs to take responsibility by learning from this situation & growing from it. That is what I expect from her. Another thing I didnt like was hw she didnt seem to care as much abt Nanase, her best friend. It just reflects badly on her, moreso when U contrast it to the scenes where nanase shows concern for ranka or even where sheryl covers nanase's body with her own during the shake. Everything else seems alright, in all the other scenes she's back to her scared normal self.

I dont really have to touch on hw awesome Sheryl was in this ep, Mai & Swamp already touched upon the awesomeness of Sheryl in their posts. So there, this my take on the Ranka-Sheryl-different-reponse issue. I feel that they are both very similar & their different responses to their very similar situations is being purposely contrasted for us viewers. As someone already said (it was haesslich, i think) Sheryl dealt with a similar situation in ep 7, & despite her breakdown on stage, She managed to pull herself together with ranka's help & Showed us Why She is on a whole different level of awesome from Ranka.

[aneeshadc]

I agree. They are beautifully developing Alto and Sheryl relationship on these 20 past episodes. Macross F is reaching its end, and even if they start developing Alto x Ranka properly, it will be a very bad move indeed. Because the entire Alto x Sheryl relationship will be wasted.
I have watched a lot of romance anime, and I need to say that Alto and Sheryl relationship is one of the best among them all. While some series tends to make one-sided relationships, Macross F created a couple that do feel like a couple, with mutual comprehension, and both supporting each other, slowly showing signs of love, and finally reaching a point where its pretty obvious that they do match each other…

Even on SDF Macross, where’s the love triangle was solved in the last episode, only one couple was properly developed. Hikaru X Minmay only lasted few episodes, after Mimmey become famous, their "romance" was all about Hikaru blindly in love with her, while she is kissing her cousin and giving a shit about him.
Meanwhile, Hikaru and Misa relationship was slowly developing, and before the end of the series, we already knew that Misa deserved Hikaru’s love more than Minmay.

Totally agree with you. Beautifully stated! Your first paragraph deliciously explains What I love about Sheryl & Alto & hw mutually benefitting their relationship is. That tender moment in ep 20 showed a level of intimacy b/w two people that are gradually falling in love with each other. I do not see that as just in the friend zone moment, In fact most of their moments are quite arguably in the just friend zone. They have always fallen somwhere between the more than just friends but not quite lovers category, IMO.
Have'nt seen SDF, but will take your word for it.:)

[justinstrife]

aneeshadc you should invest in paragraphs... They will seriously help your posts reach out to other people.

BTW you should see the original Macross. It's where everything began, and you'll find a wonderful character in Misa.

[aneeshadc]

aneeshadc you should invest in paragraphs... They will seriously help your posts reach out to other people.

BTW you should see the original Macross. It's where everything began, and you'll find a wonderful character in Misa.

By invest in paragraphs, do u mean my Paragraphs need to be shorter? If so, wiil remember that next time. Act, I'll edit it nw.

Abt SDF, i'm planning to watch that eventually, just waiting for MF to finish, till then I'll rely on you pple for any imp info:) I'm goin to watch MFagain anyway once I finish SDF. You've managed to make me really curious abt Misa & the fact that Sheryl resembles her in sm ways is enuf to rouse my interest in her & to compel me to watch the series.

[justinstrife]

By invest in paragraphs, do u mean my Paragraphs need to be shorter? If so, wiil remember that next time. Act, I'll edit it nw.

Abt SDF, i'm planning to watch that eventually, just waiting for MF to finish, till then I'll rely on you pple for any imp info:) I'm goin to watch MFagain anyway once I finish SDF. You've managed to make me really curious abt Misa & the fact that Sheryl resembles her in sm ways is enuf to rouse my interest in her & to compel me to watch the series.

Misa Hayase is one of the original tsundere characters. :p

She was such a strong character for the story IMO, that not only did I fall in love with her back in 85'(I was born in 80'!), but to this day, she is still one of my favorite females in anime.

[aneeshadc]

Misa Hayase is one of the original tsundere characters. :p

She was such a strong character for the story IMO, that not only did I fall in love with her back in 85'(I was born in 80'!), but to this day, she is still one of my favorite females in anime.

lol! You do get around dont you? Misa, Asa, Sheryl........ You're worse than Michael since u say ur in love with all of them.;)

[justinstrife]

lol! You do get around dont you? Misa, Asa, Sheryl........ You're worse than Michael since u say ur in love with all of them.;)

I give them their freedom.

Arcueid from Tsukihime, Madoka from Kimagure Orange Road, Chitori from Full Metal Panic... What can I say. :p

Oh yeah Haruka from Rahxephon it's blasphemy to forget her too.

[indr0008]

tsundere? u forget sawachika eri mind u

[aneeshadc]

I give them their freedom.

Arcueid from Tsukihime, Madoka from Kimagure Orange Road, Chitori from Full Metal Panic... What can I say. :p

Oh yeah Haruka from Rahxephon it's blasphemy to forget her too.

mmm....I know arcueid & Chidori & like them both, cant compare with Sheryl though, dont know the other two. They didnt compel me to join a forum. You can credit my prsence here to Sheryl.
No strong-willed females in anime is safe from u, I see. Wonder if its the same with real life females:)

[musouka]

Now doesn't that sound cool to you? Sorry just came to mind for some reason and so I had to share it.

I always thought a female Michael would be really cool, but I'd much prefer it if Klan was also turned into a guy. The reason for that is girls are constantly being "saved" by men or (or depending on the type of show, women) who die heroically while confessing their love, but it's rare to say that about a woman dying while fighting to protect a man she loves.

That would be more interesting to me personally.

[Tak]

I always thought a female Michael would be really cool, but I'd much prefer it if Klan was also turned into a guy. The reason for that is girls are constantly being "saved" by men or (or depending on the type of show, women) who die heroically while confessing their love, but it's rare to say that about a woman dying while fighting to protect a man she loves.

That would be more interesting to me personally.

Gotta give Klan some credit, she was actually trying to save them by macronizing, but it was one step too late.

Besides, killing women just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

- Tak

[musouka]

Gotta give Klan some credit, she was actually trying to save them by macronizing, but it was one step too late.

Besides, killing women just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

- Tak

It doesn't matter that she was "trying", what matters is that though the scene was great, it's also been done countless times before. Plus, I have no issue with women or men dying in battle. Deciding who gets to go out in a blaze of glory and who is left holding the pieces by gender is ridiculous at best, offensive at worst.

[Tak]

It doesn't matter that she was "trying", what matters is that though the scene was great, it's also been done countless times before. Plus, I have no issue with women or men dying in battle. Deciding who gets to go out in a blaze of glory and who is left holding the pieces by gender is ridiculous at best, offensive at worst.

Meh, I am just not into women being killed on screen, especially a personal one. Raramia for example, never had a line, but when she died, I wasn't very happy.

- Tak

[JPZ]

well my favorite couple just got arated a bit, i dont know who to root for now lol.

[JPZ]

and for a macross woman to die on screen would be unprecedented....

the closest we have come to that is the "death" of sharon apple.

[Tak]

and for a macross woman to die on screen would be unprecedented....

the closest we have come to that is the "death" of sharon apple.

Not really, there were many women who died on screen in the original Macross as well as in DYRL.

- Tak

[Wesley84]

The one girl probably died from having that guy thrown on top of her.

[JPZ]

Not really, there were many women who died on screen in the original Macross as well as in DYRL.

- Tak

main characters to the story?

i cant think of any....

[justinstrife]

tsundere? u forget sawachika eri mind uNever watched the show she was in, though I knew about it. I heard a great many things about her character though.

mmm....I know arcueid & Chidori & like them both, cant compare with Sheryl though, dont know the other two. They didnt compel me to join a forum. You can credit my prsence here to Sheryl.
No strong-willed females in anime is safe from u, I see. Wonder if its the same with real life females:)

You're correct. I tend to date strong-willed females too. My current girlfriend matches me very well intellectually, as well as tries to compete with me in the car scene. She's got a leg up on me in athleticism, but then again, she doesn't have a major leg injury slowing her down. :heh:

In a relationship, you really need to look for someone who is not only your equal, but also your best friend too. The puppy dog love(pun intended) does not last. It's reserved for middle school crushes(in High School you're suppose to be moving past that, and the gap widens in college and beyond). Having similar values, goals, and political views help immensely.

[justinstrife]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b139/justinstrife/anime/snapshot20080823155102.jpg

To ani_D, BleachOD, Seifall, and all the other Ranka shippers who talk about how 'content' Alto is around Ranka. How does this look from Alto towards Sheryl, the beginning of episode 20 strike you? If that's not contentment, kindness, etc, etc, I don't know what is.

[Wesley84]

Takes a fake to know a fake. Of course he'd be more comfortable around Sheryl, because they're both huge fakes.

[musouka]

Takes a fake to know a fake. Of course he'd be more comfortable around Sheryl, because they're both huge fakes.

Bitterness is unbecoming.

[Wesley84]

Bitterness is unbecoming.

It's the truth. They're both of full of shit and made for eachother. Expect a murder-suicide within a year as is befitting a Hollywood marriage.

[indr0008]

Never watched the show she was in, though I knew about it. I heard a great many things about her character though.



You're correct. I tend to date strong-willed females too. My current girlfriend matches me very well intellectually, as well as tries to compete with me in the car scene. She's got a leg up on me in athleticism, but then again, she doesn't have a major leg injury slowing her down. :heh:

In a relationship, you really need to look for someone who is not only your equal, but also your best friend too. The puppy dog love(pun intended) does not last. It's reserved for middle school crushes(in High School you're suppose to be moving past that, and the gap widens in college and beyond). Having similar values, goals, and political views help immensely.

then watch/read school rumble, this is one of those series where the supposedly main chara gets thrown aside cuz the supposedly side chara is damn more interesting to root for

back to macross,
let's see how far ranka can become in the next episode, if she is just going to ogling around alto again...then just...die:heh:

[justinstrife]

then watch/read school rumble, this is one of those series where the supposedly main chara gets thrown aside cuz the supposedly side chara is damn more interesting to root for

back to macross,
let's see how far ranka can become in the next episode, if she is just going to ogling around alto again...then just...die:heh:

From what I've read, there's no real relationship/romance/pairing ending with school rumble, is that correct? If so, don't know if even Eri would be worth the frustration I would go for.

[musouka]

It's the truth. They're both of full of shit and made for eachother. Expect a murder-suicide within a year as is befitting a Hollywood marriage.

Cry more. Your tears are delicious.

[indr0008]

From what I've read, there's no real relationship/romance/pairing ending with school rumble, is that correct? If so, don't know if even Eri would be worth the frustration I would go for.
and that's why we have school rumble z

[aneeshadc]

You're correct. I tend to date strong-willed females too. My current girlfriend matches me very well intellectually, as well as tries to compete with me in the car scene. She's got a leg up on me in athleticism, but then again, she doesn't have a major leg injury slowing her down. :heh:

In a relationship, you really need to look for someone who is not only your equal, but also your best friend too. The puppy dog love(pun intended) does not last. It's reserved for middle school crushes(in High School you're suppose to be moving past that, and the gap widens in college and beyond). Having similar values, goals, and political views help immensely.

You're one lucky guy then.:)

I agree. I've tended not to get into serious relationships for the same reasons, I'm just 19 & I have yet to meet a guy I find stimulatingly challenging enuf(well, with 1 or 2 as exception), stupid guys with no backbone & direction in life grate on me & overly possesive, dominating guys just annoy me & get on my nerves. Smtimes I wonder if I've set the standards too high, then I realize that there's no reason I need to lower them at all. I expect the guy to meet all quota & always will.:p

[justinstrife]

don't lower your standards. There's a billion guys in this world within age. It's just a matter of getting lucky.

I've picked some bad ones in the past. One girl I'd been with for 5 years even cheated on me while i spent 2 weeks in the hospital. I'd rather be extremely picky, and wait to find the right one, than just to the first girl that shows interest in me...

[aneeshadc]

don't lower your standards. There's a billion guys in this world within age. It's just a matter of getting lucky.

I've picked some bad ones in the past. One girl I'd been with for 5 years even cheated on me while i spent 2 weeks in the hospital. I'd rather be extremely picky, and wait to find the right one, than just to the first girl that shows interest in me...

That girl sounds like a bitch, & totally not worth your time. Your much better off with ur current gf. She sounds nice.

And, yes being picky is good. Thanx for the advice. I'll keep it in mind.:)

[aneeshadc]

Oh & Question: What with this rep thing? I got 3 rep, am I supposed to respond, if so hw? cn I rep them in return too?

[Seifall]

Seifall, it's great that you keep bringing up episode 13. Too bad, there's been no relationship growth between Alto and Ranka since then! Infact, they've gone back to how they were in the Pre episode 12 sense.

I understand you're grasping at straws here... And I commend you for taking the baton from ani_d, and running with it, but just like her, you have a tendency to either twist scenes to your advantage, or totally disregard scenes that have happened after the ones in your argument.

Much anime you have to watch young padawin. :)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b139/justinstrife/anime/snapshot20080823155102.jpg

To ani_D, BleachOD, Seifall, and all the other Ranka shippers who talk about how 'content' Alto is around Ranka. How does this look from Alto towards Sheryl, the beginning of episode 20 strike you? If that's not contentment, kindness, etc, etc, I don't know what is.


After seeing a face like that : http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/2301/horribl0003bx1nb9.jpg

What do you expect if not , this answer: http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/6831/horribl0000gy9yb7.jpg

People can interpret this, like they want , for me it's just a friendly and yes, tender look towards a person who is crying. Again, no one can convince anyone here so it's just my thought , which I'm now sure is right, why ?


I'm talking about what will most likely happen. But you do not think like me right ?
Alto will share more time whith Sheryl in the next episode and maybe they will show us some proof in a possible Sheryl and alto ending( Like a kiss or something which include not a repulsive reaction from alto).
If they do it you agree with me that the Alto and Ranka pair is dead and buried, no ?
But there is also the main plot with the vajra and Brera.
No one but Grace knows about his identity... After what happenned in this episode they can't let her be like that , they're aware that she give off repel, disdain not only because of her body but also because of her character which they know it, is caught like an immature one who only thing about alto.
Moreover when everybody will think Ranka is no more than a sister for alto because Sheryl made her move and they're( for sheryl fan) the perfect couple.... Brera will step in Ranka's life (vajra, relationship..). You expect Alto to do nothing ?
They clearly said alto will have to react when he will find out about Brera.
But what does it have to be with him if her brother is still alive ? Brera is her bodyguard, why making alto acts to protect Ranka? What about sheryl?
Would you not find it surprising that Alto comes back to protect her even thought they showed us he will not let Sheryl....


This was a pure speculation at that time but not now anymore,. You can start laughing but hey this is going exactly the way I thought it was going to be...
I said that and nothing until now proove me wrong.(even the recent spoilers..)
I'm sure, now, that Alto will not end up with sheryl.
You can all say me that's a pure fantasy, a wish or something else but it seems I was right, and my guesses too.
The showed us(well, I didn't buy it ) some proof in a possible Sheryl and alto ending( Like a kiss or something which include not a repulsive reaction from alto). like I though. And moreover I think now, that it's not finish yet. They will keep bridging the two and the episode 22 with sheryl will be the the paroxysm of this relationship.

Now everyone here is saying this is too late for Ranka because there are just 5 episode to go, and her behaviour in episode 20 shows well, that she will never catch up with sheryl.
So this is the end for Ranka, she is too childish to be with alto unlike the mature Sheryl who proove ( this is true) to have a impressive strenght and care for others.
Ranka was painted ,for you, selfish in this episode.For some, this is even her faults if Mikhaiel died.
She doesn't care for her friend Nanase, the only thing she wants is to be with Alto. The opposite of sheryl who didn't think of it but of her love to sing and Alto's words...
If they do it you agree with me that the Alto and Ranka pair is dead and buried, no ? and indeed this is what everyone is thinking :)

Brera's indentity is not revealed yet. We just know Ranka's emotion in her voice have effects on the vajra behaviour if those are good or bad.
We don't know yet about Bilrer, what is Grace 's true intention except destoying Frontier, who is the real enemy, the influence of Protoculture, the real reason behind sheryl's earring, her life, her being modifiated....

Normally, it will end in 5 episode. The lack of development in the main plot with
the love triangle this last episode doesn't necessary mean they are ending the love plot with a Sheryl who has the lead ( for you) to focus on the main plot with the vajra,Grace, Ranka....

No one here, seems surprised that Sheryl is already on the win side for Alto even thought Kawamori loves the suspens until the end.
This is what he already did since episode 1 with Macross.
Many were waiting Ozma death; he didn't die. Mickhail death was predictable but not as tragic, Grace real form and intention were nowhere to be found at the beginning of the serie, Brera is still (for some he is definitely Ranka's brother) a cyborg until they confirm his identity.
No one find it odd,strange that Sheryl 's character has totally changed in a good way but Ranka is in stagnancy? ( like in episode 20) ?
We find out she is dying in just ONE episode the 17 . this isn't a suspens but a complete twist(well made) in the story.
She is dying but do not want to tell Alto. Obviously when alto will find out he will run after her. Where is the suspens here ?
You will tell me it's the same with Ranka/emotion/voice which control the vajra but Brera enters in the game here.
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/977/horribl0000bc0pr1.jpg



I'm saying that this is too obvious to be true...
Sheryl in tears on the rooftop, Alto's face which is full of "tenderness, affection..."
for some( hopefully not everybody) even thought we were suppose to see a Sheryl who confesses her feelings in two episode and Alto's expected reaction in 22 ? All Sheryl's fan jump at the conclusion "that's it " or " in 5 episode how can they do with this Ranka ? " .

Sheryl is supposed to die(...), all Sheryl fan say she's going to end up with Alto ?:heh: So people think she is going to live no ?
Ranka can die too.
It doesn't look like she is a heroine, looking at people's post on her..unlike Sheryl who really is the only ONE....

This will be the most interesting thing so far in M Frontier.
How they will succeed to catch up with the recent disappointement, and make Ranka accepted by everyone, sheryl's like Ranka's fan at the end of the serie? and who is behind the whole conspiracy ?.

The love plot is already closed for me.
I am sure Alto will choose Ranka over Sheryl ( you can laugh yeah...) ;)

I just find out something not very enjoyable to read.

@Westlo
Btw ani_D Seifall is making you look reasonable on Suki, he took your delusional Ranka gimmick and took it to a whole new level XD Like I said on AS you were Street Figher and he’s Street Fighter 2!

@ magnus Magnus at 6:33 am on August 24th, 2008
And, honestly… I am not taking Random Curiousity chat very seriously. It´s gone in three days, with nobody caring anymore. And the average fan here can´t spell very well, which I always take as a sign of someone who doesn´t care very much about his own opinion. We get a lot less of that on Suki, where it´s ( at least recently ) mostly the newly arrived Ranka fans who can´t spell and properly format their replies.
yuKime: No, nobody is perfect. But if some people don´t know how to write words in uppercase, don´t have any punctuation and “lol” four times in one sentence, then I take that as someone who doesn´t care much about how he comes off to others.

It's not because I'm here, that I don't surf on the web .
I already tell about my difficulties to write in english, seems like you think I'm a fool. I'm pleased. :) Honestly, some Sheryl's fan here do not honour to their Queen :D

Well, it was funny to discuss with some of you. Hopefully few are not that biased.
Seeing how my post are always twisted, and how people just want here to diss you and nothing else ( I suggest you to watch the episode....:twitch:,), yawn, write on over blog how unconcerned I am because of my punctuation and my poor english....
And yes this is about me since I don't see a lot Ranka's fan here, moreover who don't speak english...
I will pleased you in letting you all between comrades. If some have time to talk like that on other blog they must be really bored here, no ?
I QUIT.
Don't worry I will come back to sympathize with you in your grief at the end ;)

[Tak]

After seeing a face like that : http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/2301/horribl0003bx1nb9.jpg

What do you expect if not , this answer: http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/6831/horribl0000gy9yb7.jpg

People can interpret this, like they want , for me it's just a friendly and yes, tender look towards a person who is crying. Again, no one can convince anyone here so it's just my thought , which I'm now sure is right, why ?



This was a pure speculation at that time but not now anymore,. You can start laughing but hey this is going exactly the way I thought it was going to be...
I said that and nothing until now proove me wrong.(even the recent spoilers..)
I'm sure, now, that Alto will not end up with sheryl.
You can all say me that's a pure fantasy, a wish or something else but it seems I was right, and my guesses too.
The showed us(well, I didn't buy it ) some proof in a possible Sheryl and alto ending( Like a kiss or something which include not a repulsive reaction from alto). like I though. And moreover I think now, that it's not finish yet. They will keep bridging the two and the episode 22 with sheryl will be the the paroxysm of this relationship.

Now everyone here is saying this is too late for Ranka because there are just 5 episode to go, and her behaviour in episode 20 shows well, that she will never catch up with sheryl.
So this is the end for Ranka, she is too childish to be with alto unlike the mature Sheryl who proove ( this is true) to have a impressive strenght and care for others.
Ranka was painted ,for you, selfish in this episode.For some, this is even her faults if Mikhaiel died.
She doesn't care for her friend Nanase, the only thing she wants is to be with Alto. The opposite of sheryl who didn't think of it but of her love to sing and Alto's words...
If they do it you agree with me that the Alto and Ranka pair is dead and buried, no ? and indeed this is what everyone is thinking :)

Brera's indentity is not revealed yet. We just know Ranka's emotion in her voice have effects on the vajra behaviour if those are good or bad.
We don't know yet about Bilrer, what is Grace 's true intention except destoying Frontier, who is the real enemy, the influence of Protoculture, the real reason behind sheryl's earring, her life, her being modifiated....

Normally, it will end in 5 episode. The lack of development in the main plot with
the love triangle this last episode doesn't necessary mean they are ending the love plot with a Sheryl who has the lead ( for you) to focus on the main plot with the vajra,Grace, Ranka....

No one here, seems surprised that Sheryl is already on the win side for Alto even thought Kawamori loves the suspens until the end.
This is what he already did since episode 1 with Macross.
Many were waiting Ozma death; he didn't die. Mickhail death was predictable but not as tragic, Grace real form and intention were nowhere to be found at the beginning of the serie, Brera is still (for some he is definitely Ranka's brother) a cyborg until they confirm his identity.
No one find it odd,strange that Sheryl 's character has totally changed in a good way but Ranka is in stagnancy? ( like in episode 20) ?
We find out she is dying in just ONE episode the 17 . this isn't a suspens but a complete twist(well made) in the story.
She is dying but do not want to tell Alto. Obviously when alto will find out he will run after her. Where is the suspens here ?
You will tell me it's the same with Ranka/emotion/voice which control the vajra but Brera enters in the game here.
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/977/horribl0000bc0pr1.jpg



I'm saying that this is too obvious to be true...
Sheryl in tears on the rooftop, Alto's face which is full of "tenderness, affection..."
for some( hopefully not everybody) even thought we were suppose to see a Sheryl who confesses her feelings in two episode and Alto's expected reaction in 22 ? All Sheryl's fan jump at the conclusion "that's it " or " in 5 episode how can they do with this Ranka ? " .

Sheryl is supposed to die(...), all Sheryl fan say she's going to end up with Alto ?:heh: So people think she is going to live no ?
Ranka can die too.
It doesn't look like she is a heroine, looking at people's post on her..unlike Sheryl who really is the only ONE....

This will be the most interesting thing so far in M Frontier.
How they will succeed to catch up with the recent disappointement, and accepted Ranka by everyone, sheryl's like Ranka's fan at the end of the serie? and who is behind the whole conspiracy ?.

The love plot is already closed for me.
I am sure Alto will choose Ranka over Sheryl ( you can laugh yeah...) ;)

I just find out something not very enjoyable to read.

@Westlo
Btw ani_D Seifall is making you look reasonable on Suki, he took your delusional Ranka gimmick and took it to a whole new level XD Like I said on AS you were Street Figher and he’s Street Fighter 2!

@ magnus Magnus at 6:33 am on August 24th, 2008
And, honestly… I am not taking Random Curiousity chat very seriously. It´s gone in three days, with nobody caring anymore. And the average fan here can´t spell very well, which I always take as a sign of someone who doesn´t care very much about his own opinion. We get a lot less of that on Suki, where it´s ( at least recently ) mostly the newly arrived Ranka fans who can´t spell and properly format their replies.
yuKime: No, nobody is perfect. But if some people don´t know how to write words in uppercase, don´t have any punctuation and “lol” four times in one sentence, then I take that as someone who doesn´t care much about how he comes off to others.

It's not because I'm here, that I don't surf on the web .
I already tell about my difficulties to write in english, seems like you think I'm a fool. I'm pleased. :) Honestly, some Sheryl's fan here do not honour to their Queen :D

Well, it was funny to discuss with some of you. Hopefully few are not that biased.
Seeing how my post are always twisted, and how people just want here to diss you and nothing else ( I suggest you to watch the episode....:twitch:,), yawn, write on over blog how unconcerned I am because of my punctuation and my poor english....
And yes this is about me since I don't see a lot Ranka's fan here, moreover who don't speak english...
I will pleased you in letting you all between comrades. If some have time to talk like that on other blog they must be really bored here, no ?
I QUIT.
Don't worry I will come back to sympathize with you in your grief at the end ;)

You are trying too hard.

And stop being a hypocrite, you are as biased (if not more so) than the rest of us. The difference? At least I am willing to admit it.

- Tak

[Teletha]

Oh & Question: What with this rep thing? I got 3 rep, am I supposed to respond, if so hw? cn I rep them in return too?

No, you don't have to. You can rep them if you see a comment they make that you like. It's the little green square. If someone likes your comment, of if you like you someone's comment (or if you don't like it you can negative rep them) you can leave them good rep. Click on the box in the middle to rep and leave a comment.

@Seifall

I see a lot of Ranka shippers putting hope on the triangle switching to Brera/Ranka/Alto at the last minute, it seems. Which I don't see happening. Brera has already been shown he's not a bad guy and is being controlled. Alto doesn't need to save Ranka from him. Sheryl still hasn't even told Alto the truth about herself. I'm not going to say it's over yet, but both Ranka and Sheryl have huge obstacles to overcome. Ranka needs a complete change in personality and Sheryl needs to reach out to Alto in time.

[magnuskn]

Oh & Question: What with this rep thing? I got 3 rep, am I supposed to respond, if so hw? cn I rep them in return too?

It´s anonymous, which is for one part sad, because I cannot rep back, unless you identify yourself in the rep message. And it´s bad, because trolls can bad-rep you with impunity.

Of course if you want to negative-rep one without him knowing who did it, it´s perfect.

All in all, I´d prefer a not anonymous system.

[magnuskn]

@ magnus Magnus at 6:33 am on August 24th, 2008
And, honestly… I am not taking Random Curiousity chat very seriously. It´s gone in three days, with nobody caring anymore. And the average fan here can´t spell very well, which I always take as a sign of someone who doesn´t care very much about his own opinion. We get a lot less of that on Suki, where it´s ( at least recently ) mostly the newly arrived Ranka fans who can´t spell and properly format their replies.
yuKime: No, nobody is perfect. But if some people don´t know how to write words in uppercase, don´t have any punctuation and “lol” four times in one sentence, then I take that as someone who doesn´t care much about how he comes off to others.

It's not because I'm here, that I don't surf on the web .
I already tell about my difficulties to write in english, seems like you think I'm a fool. I'm pleased. :) Honestly, some Sheryl's fan here do not honour to their Queen :D


Well, I had you in the back of my mind when I wrote this, but actually, in that case I was talking about that Shinji character ( who chose his nick, oh so appropiately! ).

Well, it was funny to discuss with some of you. Hopefully few are not that biased.
Seeing how my post are always twisted, and how people just want here to diss you and nothing else ( I suggest you to watch the episode....:twitch:,), yawn, write on over blog how unconcerned I am because of my punctuation and my poor english....
And yes this is about me since I don't see a lot Ranka's fan here, moreover who don't speak english...
I will pleased you in letting you all between comrades. If some have time to talk like that on other blog they must be really bored here, no ?
I QUIT.
Don't worry I will come back to sympathize with you in your grief at the end ;)

Ah, see, that is how it´s done, ani_D. Post a "Wah, you are all so mean" message, with veiled threats of an imminent return when the ship turns your way. :D

*edit* Dang, double post *again*. I really should look better, even if it early in the morning. :(

[CaptGloval]

I always thought a female Michael would be really cool, but I'd much prefer it if Klan was also turned into a guy. The reason for that is girls are constantly being "saved" by men or (or depending on the type of show, women) who die heroically while confessing their love, but it's rare to say that about a woman dying while fighting to protect a man she loves.

That would be more interesting to me personally.

There's actually talk in another thread that though we've seen snipers die in anime this year, the female snipers were spared. Guess, gender-bent Michel would still be alive now in that case.

And nah, dying while protecting the one you love is there because it's somewhat a fulfillment of heroic fantasies :heh:

[aneeshadc]

No, you don't have to. You can rep them if you see a comment they make that you like. It's the little green square. If someone likes your comment, of if you like you someone's comment (or if you don't like it you can negative rep them) you can leave them good rep. Click on the box in the middle to rep and leave a comment.

Thnx. Where is the green square? on my profile page or ...?

Thats kay, I figured it out, thnx

[aneeshadc]

Oh, Seifall, abt alto responding to sheryl with that look cos she had a few tears in her eyes, Hw cum he does nothing when he sees Ranka crying her heart out later on in the same ep?

[Wesley84]

Oh, Seifall, abt alto responding to sheryl with that look cos she had a few tears in her eyes, Hw cum he does nothing when he sees Ranka crying her heart out later on in the same ep?

Because he's an asshole. She runs off visibly upset and they forget about her until some bugs need to be swatted. If the Vajra wouldn't have attacked, they wouldn't have ran after her. Then she probably would have gone to the observatory, cried a little bit, and made herself feel better with a little help from Second Stage Ai-kun and Bresra.

And where was Bresra? He's been her shadow for half the series. Matter of fact he was within throwing distance of her at the concert, so why does he have to leap from roof top to roof top looking for her in vain in the next episode?

[Danish78]

Brera was backstage during Ranka's concert. He was on the rooftop of a building near/directly behind Ranka (the scene before Sheryl and Nanase got separated from the group) before Grace summoned him and ordered him to fly out of Frontier and deal with the Vajra.

[Wesley84]

Brera was backstage during Ranka's concert. He was on the rooftop of a building near/directly behind Ranka (the scene before Sheryl and Nanase got separated from the group) before Grace summoned him and ordered him to fly out of Frontier and deal with the Vajra.

He shouldn't have had to go looking for her is my point. He even went with her to school for crying out loud.

[Danish78]

He shouldn't have had to go looking for her is my point. He even went with her to school for crying out loud.

Point taken. I was merely answering the where was Brera question and not implying anything more.

[Wesley84]

Point taken. I was merely answering the where was Brera question and not implying anything more.

Thank you, but I'm aware of Bresra's scene in the episode. Actually I suppose I should be grateful he wasn't completely forgotten.

[magnuskn]

So... at the moment I am going with the "normal" data, that we have 25 episodes.

Westlo suggested that the triangle may be resolved early, so this upcoming episode could well be the "fake-out" one, before the real couple gets together.

This could explain the "Ranka blushes at Alto" scene we got in the preview, so I am setting myself up already for some major cheers from the Ranka crowd for one week. :D

[Tak]

This could explain the "Ranka blushes at Alto" scene we got in the preview, so I am setting myself up already for some major cheers from the Ranka crowd for one week. :D

Only to be poured by a bucket of icy cold water when episode 23 airs.

- Tak

[FLCL]

ranka fans need to get rickrolled until the epicness of episode 23

[KiraYamatoFan]

Did I miss something? What is in the menu for episode 23?

[ickem]

Did I miss something? What is in the menu for episode 23?

There's some Alto-hime cuisine on the menu for 23;).

[KiraYamatoFan]

There's some Alto-hime cuisine on the menu for 23;).

LOL!:heh:

I was rather asking if something leaked from the magazines about that episode.:confused:

[ickem]

LOL!:heh:

I was rather asking if something leaked from the magazines about that episode.:confused:

Yeah there is a spoiler for 23 that says Alto will cook for Sheryl. It's in the spoiler speculation thread.

[aneeshadc]

Because he's an asshole. She runs off visibly upset and they forget about her until some bugs need to be swatted. If the Vajra wouldn't have attacked, they wouldn't have ran after her. Then she probably would have gone to the observatory, cried a little bit, and made herself feel better with a little help from Second Stage Ai-kun and Bresra.

I dont think he was being an asshole, the fact that he does call out her name shows he atleast cares abt her. If he was honestly in love with her, then I think he would have instinctively run after her.

I think that since, neither alto nor sheryl made a move to run after, it meant that they were giving her time to deal with her hurt feelings alone. The situation would have turned out even more awkward if either had run after her.
I dont think alto wanted to lie to her & make excuses espescially since even though nothing significantly romantic happened, something special still passed b/w alto & sheryl.

As for Sheryl, She is the 'other girl' here, her running after ranka would make it even worse. Besides, I dont feel they were ever as close as people made them out to be. They had more of a mentor-student relationship than sister-sister or even close friend- friend relationship, all of their conversations hav been only abt Sheryl taking an interest in Ranka's career.

Anyway, the arrival of the vajra didnt allow them to act on their initial thoughts. I hardly think alto was trying to use her when he asked her to sing, it might sound callous but when peoples lives are in danger & there is a way u can assure their safety, as a soldier wouldnt u try to do all u can. Besides, its not like alto wouldnt be there to protect her when she's singing. He was only asking her to do everything that she could within her power. period.

I've digressed from my earlier point, but wat I was trying to tell seifall is that if alto harboured romantic feelings for ranka, then he would have hugged her when he sees her crying her heart out & told her everything she saw was a misunderstanding. Instead, he stands there at a loss as to what to do? And Sheryl had to rescue him from an uncomfortable situation with brilliant tactics.:)

[justinstrife]

Please, please, PLEASE don't respond to the troll aneeshadc. I've been saying this every week if not every day to people who do so. 90% of the people in the Macross sub-forum have him on ignore, so we don't have to read his posts.

From here on in, I give one warning to the people who quote him, then I will put them on ignore as well. It's been two months and people are still doing it, and as much as I hate putting people on ignore, what must be done, must be done.

[solothurn]

@aneeshadc

You're talking to somebody who's thoroughly convinced that Ranka Lee is the lead character of Macross Frontier and the rest are only the supporting cast.

Give it up, he's a lost cause.

[aneeshadc]

Please, please, PLEASE don't respond to the troll aneeshadc. I've been saying this every week if not every day to people who do so. 90% of the people in the Macross sub-forum have him on ignore, so we don't have to read his posts.

From here on in, I give one warning to the people who quote him, then I will put them on ignore as well. It's been two months and people are still doing it, and as much as I hate putting people on ignore, what must be done, must be done.

Sry, I forgot & I just hate to give up! Next time I'll spoiler tag it, Happy?

[aneeshadc]

@aneeshadc

You're talking to somebody who's thoroughly convinced that Ranka Lee is the lead character of Macross Frontier and the rest are only the supporting cast.

Give it up, he's a lost cause.
lol! ur rite, i forgot that. Its just the lack of decent ranka fans to argue with, I guess.

[solothurn]

Because the decent Ranka fans either have:

1.) Switched to the Sheryl camp
2.) Have enough common sense to see how Ranka was depicted poorly in the last few episodes and are just keeping silent or a neutral tone to weather out the storm in order to see how her story pans out.

[magnuskn]

Please, please, PLEASE don't respond to the troll aneeshadc. I've been saying this every week if not every day to people who do so. 90% of the people in the Macross sub-forum have him on ignore, so we don't have to read his posts.

From here on in, I give one warning to the people who quote him, then I will put them on ignore as well. It's been two months and people are still doing it, and as much as I hate putting people on ignore, what must be done, must be done.

Justin... he was banned two days ago. I don´t know why aneeshadc was responding to such an old post, though...

[aneeshadc]

Justin... he was banned two days ago. I don´t know why aneeshadc was responding to such an old post, though...

Really? didnt know that. Sry, cos it was addressed to me & I didnt notice the date it was posted.

[justinstrife]

Justin... he was banned two days ago. I don´t know why aneeshadc was responding to such an old post, though...

Who knows how long the ban is for though. Could be a couple days, or a couple weeks, or a permaban. Just covering my bases...

[TwilightHack]

Tick tock, anyone have any ideas about how the current events will play out for Sheryl?

[Darial]

Tick tock, anyone have any ideas about how the current events will play out for Sheryl?

I don't think anyone knows at this point. With Ranka folding like this, it throws the whole equation off big time. Most likely Sheryl will have Alto to herself for a little bit until Ranka comes back and Lion gets sing. After that only God knows how the triangle will get resolved. :uhoh:

[zalem]

Personally, I think things look really bad for Sheryl. Damn Kawamori! Since the beginning I always thought it was going to go RankaxAlto, but the past few episodes gave me a little bit of hope that maybe Sheryl might win. But now I'm all pessimistic again. *sighs*

We'll see what ep. 22 brings us.

[Joachim]

i have to personally agree with zalem.. the current eps (21) doesn't exactly bode well with altoxsheryl pairing with all the goodbye and stuff.. its just.. i dont know.

if we are going to "cliche" path then most likely alto and sheryl will have their time together at last after this episode (21) but then what? the so ever good alto-kun will go chase after ranka..

it would be good if he actually choose someone before he go save ranka, if not then.. i dont know, it will be batshit all over again, i mean leaving a girl to save another girl which already happens like idk how many times in the eps, while still leaving the other kinda hoping.. is not actually manly.. its cowardice and for the boy own personal favor, lets just end one's suffering and choose someone before you go all prince like saving the distressed damsel shall we ALTO KUN?

thought its kinda a good sign because sheryl hasn't exactly confessed to him yet.. so there is still a chance for sherylxalto in the next upcoming episode.. which could either mean that alto will confess to her and then she tell him to save ranka first than worry about their love affair later, or (i dont really prefer this one) sherly will confess to him and then he goes all "i dont know sherly" and then goes to save ranka and later on answer on both ranka and sherly after all the shit ends

blagh i'm a lil desperate right now

[Lostdreams]

Right now, I'm hoping Ranka sacrifices herself to save Frontier, or she realizes how much Brera loves her and goes with him. Still iffy on the whole SherylxAlto ending. It might happen, but idk doesn't seem like Alto's too interested in Sheryl after last episode.

[FLCL]

considering how alto seems to be distancing from sheryl and ranka is too predictable at this point, anyone want to venture out and guess this is kawamoris ULTIMATE rickroll, that Alto ends up with none of them?

[Lostdreams]

considering how alto seems to be distancing from sheryl and ranka is too predictable at this point, anyone want to venture out and guess this is kawamoris ULTIMATE rickroll, that Alto ends up with none of them?

This is another possibility
RankaxBrera
Alto(Single)
Sheryl(single)

[raile]

Alto x Valkyrie...err Nobody seems more plausible. But who knows what goes inside Kawamori's head. Ah yeah, I'm new...XD

[zalem]

I'm convinced Brera is her brother, so I am hoping no BreraxRanka. No incest in my Macross.

[Black Eye]

I'm convinced Brera is her brother, so I am hoping no BreraxRanka. No incest in my Macross.

yeah i'm sure of that too, if brera wasn't her brother i would be glad to have that couple, i do like brera far more than alto *who is pretty annoying*. but yeah i wouldn't want to have a BreraxRanka now,for me it is either RankaxAlto, RankaxNobody, or her being dead by the end by saving everyone on frontier.

[solothurn]

While I honestly believe that episode 21 is a monkey wrench and things can go either way, I couldn't help but think that this episode MAY or CAN BE interpreted as it is: Ranka's farewell to Alto, the death of Ranka x Alto and the confirmation of Sheryl x Alto.

If look at how the previous episode ended, in Ranka's mind now, she's probably acting with the knowledge that Alto likes Sheryl, and decides to do one last push: to ask Alto to go with her to the Vajra. Since Alto refused to, she seems to have given up on him and decides to walk her path alone: an admirable feat considering her previous actions. (It's almost TOO convenient to have her mature that quickly within the span of one episode whereas she spent a whole truckload of episodes stuck in her naive, child-like behavior, but that's the topic of another discussion.)

Now, if this were a sign of Ranka end, and if Alto really likes Ranka over Sheryl, he should be acting as if one big hole has been ripped from his life. Sure, we see him moping around in the episode preview, but correct me if I'm mistaken, moping around *his house*? If there's one thing that can make him go back to his house, it's Sheryl.

Now, if ever the next episode will make Alto decide in favor of Ranka, do you think he will spend time "cooking for Sheryl and spending time peacefully" as the confirmed spoilers suggested? Naturally, he should be looking at options to find Ranka and tell her that he wants to be with her, right?

With the fact that Alto is still spending time around Sheryl even in episode 23, it can be taken as a hint that Alto won't be acting emo all the time with Ranka gone; and probably more chances of development with Sheryl. Now with that, it would almost be absurd for them to suddenly ditch the character who has had more time with Alto at the end: it would be almost like wasting the entire effort. I don't think the production team is that dumb....right?

Uh....right?

Your thoughts?

[rei_lied]

After watching the latest episode, I think Alto will end up with Ranka no matter how much I want an AltoxSheryl ending. The spoilers for episode 23 doesn't really confirm anything...I'll start conditioning myself for an AltoXRanka ending so I won't be that disappointed in the end.

[KiraYamatoFan]

After watching the latest episode, I think Alto will end up with Ranka no matter how much I want an AltoxSheryl ending. The spoilers for episode 23 doesn't really confirm anything...I'll start conditioning myself for an AltoXRanka ending so I won't be that disappointed in the end.

How can you say that? Ranka already threw herself towards the Vajra after her ultimate attempt to have Alto to return her feelings, a wrong move in my eyes.

The only thing I wished was for Alto to yell for Ranka to go in hell out of anger.:p (twisted evil)

[aneeshadc]

While I honestly believe that episode 21 is a monkey wrench and things can go either way, I couldn't help but think that this episode MAY or CAN BE interpreted as it is: Ranka's farewell to Alto, the death of Ranka x Alto and the confirmation of Sheryl x Alto.

If look at how the previous episode ended, in Ranka's mind now, she's probably acting with the knowledge that Alto likes Sheryl, and decides to do one last push: to ask Alto to go with her to the Vajra. Since Alto refused to, she seems to have given up on him and decides to walk her path alone: an admirable feat considering her previous actions. (It's almost TOO convenient to have her mature that quickly within the span of one episode whereas she spent a whole truckload of episodes stuck in her naive, child-like behavior, but that's the topic of another discussion.)

Now, if this were a sign of Ranka end, and if Alto really likes Ranka over Sheryl, he should be acting as if one big hole has been ripped from his life. Sure, we see him moping around in the episode preview, but correct me if I'm mistaken, moping around *his house*? If there's one thing that can make him go back to his house, it's Sheryl.

Now, if ever the next episode will make Alto decide in favor of Ranka, do you think he will spend time "cooking for Sheryl and spending time peacefully" as the confirmed spoilers suggested? Naturally, he should be looking at options to find Ranka and tell her that he wants to be with her, right?

With the fact that Alto is still spending time around Sheryl even in episode 23, it can be taken as a hint that Alto won't be acting emo all the time with Ranka gone; and probably more chances of development with Sheryl. Now with that, it would almost be absurd for them to suddenly ditch the character who has had more time with Alto at the end: it would be almost like wasting the entire effort. I don't think the production team is that dumb....right?

Uh....right?

Your thoughts?




I agree. As of now, I think it could go either way. Its funny how with one ep, things are back to neutral ground again. If u go by alto's behaviour, sheryl seems to be the more likely choice, but If you go by plot progression, Ranka still has a 50% chance.

Man, this sucks. I really hope all the glorious-full-of-win-&-substance-sheryl/Alto interactions isnt going to be ignored just for plot progression.

Actually, when u think again, I still think Sheryl/Alto end is more likely because she seems to be important in the plot progression too because her past & connection to Mao Nome, Cure for Vajra type infection has yet to be explored.

So she not only has plot on her side but also her relationship with alto, While ranka has to depend heavily on plot because of lack of decent romantic interaction with alto.

I also think when alto does finally go after Ranka, it will not only be to bring her back but also to find a cure for Sheryl ( I'm sure Sheryl's V-type infection has some connection to Ranka & the Vajra, so the cure too must lie with them). I think that will be Ranka's ultimate sacrifice ( not with her life, I hope), u know, she will choose to save Sheryl, fully knowing that Alto's in love with Sheryl.

But ep 21 scares me because it clearly depicts the possibility of either girl emerging the victor. I really hope its just a monkey wrench. Damn, Kawamori is soooo evil to leave us hanging like this.

[TwilightHack]

I don't quite know what to say actually...

But like others have said this again throws everything we've thought back into a loop. The Macross F team is incredibly awesome to be able to do this time after time with similar or greater effect. Personally I both hate and love it, but it makes for a great show.

I've a feeling that Alto might ponder Ranka for the time being then confide in Sheryl who, though pained, will support him and keep her own feelings to herself...

I made this assumption based on the lyrics from Northern Cross.

But you know what? The fact that Sheryl hasn't confessed or made her own feelings known to Alto yet leaves an opening for her...

Though if Sheryl does confess to, or rebuke Alto about Ranka during the next ep instead of support him, its all over. It'll also be all over if Sheryl is the one that tells Alto about the V-virus in her next ep.
But honestly how they plan to give us an ending that isn't rushed without a second season is beyond me. I mean there are only what... 4-7 episodes left? If anything I hope the triangle is resolved this season.

[Black Eye]

I also think when alto does finally go after Ranka, it will not only be to bring her back but also to find a cure for Sheryl ( I'm sure Sheryl's V-type infection has some connection to Ranka & the Vajra, so the cure too must lie with them). I think that will be Ranka's ultimate sacrifice ( not with her life, I hope), u know, she will choose to save Sheryl, fully knowing that Alto's in love with Sheryl.


nice speculation you got there :), that would be a good plot indeed

[servitude]

Original Macross.

(Using Robotech names)

Lisa Hayes vs Lyn Min Mei.

Lisa Hayes won 2-1

2 thousand 6 trillion years into the future.

Alto = hotshot pilot
Rick Hunter = hotshot pilot

Lisa Hayes = cool chick (in a Macross sort of way)
Sheryl = cool chick (comparative purposes) but with some serious issues.

Min Mei = spolit brat eventually growing up
Ranka = very spoilt brat which hasn't grown up yet

[KiraYamatoFan]

I agree. As of now, I think it could go either way. Its funny how with one ep, things are back to neutral ground again. If u go by alto's behaviour, sheryl seems to be the more likely choice, but If you go by plot progression, Ranka still has a 50% chance.

Man, this sucks. I really hope all the glorious-full-of-win-&-substance-sheryl/Alto interactions isnt going to be ignored just for plot progression.

Actually, when u think again, I still think Sheryl/Alto end is more likely because she seems to be important in the plot progression too because her past & connection to Mao Nome, Cure for Vajra type infection has yet to be explored.

So she not only has plot on her side but also her relationship with alto, While ranka has to depend heavily on plot because of lack of decent romantic interaction with alto.

I also think when alto does finally go after Ranka, it will not only be to bring her back but also to find a cure for Sheryl ( I'm sure Sheryl's V-type infection has some connection to Ranka & the Vajra, so the cure too must lie with them). I think that will be Ranka's ultimate sacrifice ( not with her life, I hope), u know, she will choose to save Sheryl, fully knowing that Alto's in love with Sheryl.

But ep 21 scares me because it clearly depicts the possibility of either girl emerging the victor. I really hope its just a monkey wrench. Damn, Kawamori is soooo evil to leave us hanging like this.

If there was ONE thing I hate from this series, it is to be left hanging with a 50/50 situation rather than giving a full clear-cut victory (the moment was perfect) and take the other completely of the equation.

Original Macross.

(Using Robotech names)

Lisa Hayes vs Lyn Min Mei.

Lisa Hayes won 2-1

2 thousand 6 trillion years into the future.

Alto = hotshot pilot
Rick Hunter = hotshot pilot

Lisa Hayes = cool chick (in a Macross sort of way)
Sheryl = cool chick (comparative purposes) but with some serious issues.

Min Mei = spolit brat eventually growing up
Ranka = very spoilt brat which hasn't grown up yet

I hope you're right, but I personally HATE when we're left with such cliffhanger like we just had. If there was a moment to end it all, it could have been there... if Alto spoke the truth about his interest in Sheryl rather than trying to be nice again to Ranka (I already yelled at Hikaru to make his mind countless times watching the original series and I yelled Alto to ditch Ranka once and for all, believe me)

[Black Eye]

Original Macross.

(Using Robotech names)

Lisa Hayes vs Lyn Min Mei.

Lisa Hayes won 2-1

2 thousand 6 trillion years into the future.

Alto = hotshot pilot
Rick Hunter = hotshot pilot

Lisa Hayes = cool chick (in a Macross sort of way)
Sheryl = cool chick (comparative purposes) but with some serious issues.

Min Mei = spolit brat eventually growing up
Ranka = very spoilt brat which hasn't grown up yet

yeah i feel that frontier pretty much relates to the Original Macross, the slap from rick to min mei was the same from sherly *not alto :heh:* to ranka's situation. so i wouldn't be suprised if alto and sherly do end up together.

but please don't relate ranka to min mei whom to me is pretty annoying :mad:.

[aneeshadc]

I don't quite know what to say actually...

But like others have said this again throws everything we've thought back into a loop. The Macross F team is incredibly awesome to be able to do this time after time with similar or greater effect. Personally I both hate and love it, but it makes for a great show.

I've a feeling that Alto might ponder Ranka for the time being then confide in Sheryl who, though pained, will support him and keep her own feelings to herself...

I made this assumption based on the lyrics from Northern Cross.

But you know what? The fact that Sheryl hasn't confessed or made her own feelings known to Alto yet leaves an opening for her...

Ya, I can see that happening too, makes sense. Except when he confides in Sheryl, I want him to be vague,

Mayb just tell Sheryl that he's extremely worried abt ranka & that she confessed to him before she left without outright telling Sheryl that he loves ranka.

Sheryl then urges him to go after her leaving sheryl open to confess her own feelings at a much later date or Alto himself might be the one to confess to her first. I'd like that better, preferably without using the death trump card so that ranka fans wont bitch abt the pity factor playing into it.

if Sheryl does confess to, or rebuke Alto about Ranka during the next ep instead of support him, its all over.
But honestly how they plan to give us an ending that isn't rushed without a second season is beyond me.

I really dont see Sheryl rebuking Alto for worring abt Ranka, So far she's been nothing short ofsupportive for both of them & I dont see that changing ever.

Anyways I'm really liking the scenario u painted above( Thank you for thinking it up) sooooooooooooooooo much better than the Alto/Ranka end I can also see happening. :(

[Mughi]

I've been saying they will make it look like it can go either way right to the end and that all the shipping dreams and pointing at each other and calling names isn't going to make anything that Kawamori and crew intend to do, change....

[TwilightHack]

Pretty much.

All we do is sit and wait. :)

[aneeshadc]

So, u were rite Mr-I-Told-You So:p, still doesnt change anything, people will continue to poke fingers untill the end, no matter which side has the upperhand.

This is gonna be fun, I betcha that with this ep, a lot of ranka fans will come out of hibernation.:)

[TwilightHack]

This is gonna be fun, I betcha that with this ep, a lot of ranka fans will come out of hibernation.:)
I hope so, the shipping debates have become a bit of a bore with the disappearance of the Ranka fans.

Btw, I'm glad you like the scenario but in my head it's the only way Sheryl can react that still gives her a chance. Unfortunately anything can happen.

[Marina Ismail]

Sorry guys but... Ranka x Ai-Kun has been confirmed in ep 21. Just take a look below...

http://i35.tinypic.com/a2tehi.jpg

Credit to 4th's Legacy over at NF

[TwilightHack]

Sorry guys but... Ranka x Ai-Kun has been confirmed in ep 21. Just take a look below...

http://i35.tinypic.com/a2tehi.jpg

Credit to 4th's Legacy over at NF
ROFL! Winner!

[Minari]

rofl you should see her expression during that scene too... it was as if she felt pleasured...

[Tak]

If any of you think this episode (21) is some sort of a confirmation, think again.

Yes, Ranka confessed, but a confession takes two people in agreement to become concrete. Unfortunately in Ranka's case, her behavior still remains one-sided. If Alto loved Ranka so much as claimed by some shippers, why did he not go after her? He certainly had the means to do so. Clearly it tells me that, in episode 21, Alto was totally confused of her actions. If Ranka shippers are claiming that Sheryl just toys with Alto all the time, I'd like them to explain the end of 21 to me. Because just what the hell was that all about.

In contrast, Ranka's partner, Berera, understood Ranka's feelings almost flawlessly, and even actively embraced her to sooth her feelings. Ever seen the same behavior being executed by Alto? I am afraid not. Moreover, aside from having Ranka being the receiving end to Alto's tirade, Alto knows next to nothing about this girl and vise versa. Alto doesn't even know that Ranka likes soft-creams, and Ranka did not even bother asking Alto why he loved the sky until this episode, even though she had tons of chances before.

I also do not understand Ranka's single-minded devotion to Alto. Some shippers may claim that Alto saved Ranka many times before, but guess what, so did Brera. Moreover, the latter understood her feelings, and proved sensitive to her emotional needs. On the other hand, Alto had been a total jerk to her for the majority of this series. Ranka loves Alto for what? How is this relationship healthy? What is connecting them emotionally? Ranka even had the nerve to ask Alto to come along when her Vajra spawn showed up. Can she be anymore insensitive? Does she not know that Mikey just died a bloody death at the hands of a Vajra?

Then there is another thing, for all Brera does for Ranka, he is certainly not being appreciated. I wonder what Brera would get for all his efforts by the end of this series? I mean, this guy just went AWOL for Ranka's sake! Did Alto do the same for Ranka?

Some shippers are going gaga because Ranka confessed. I have but one thing to say, grow the fuck up.

Now, as for the Queen herself. . .

- Tak

[Elehayym]

Considering how Ranka even used the past tense when she confessed I really don't see why anyone thinks that this episode should mean that AltoxRanka is gonna happen. It looked more like Ranka exiting from the triangle to me, even though of course who knows what Kawamori is planning .-.

That said I haven't seen any shipper go gaga because "Ranka confessed" in here (I agree that a confession means nothing if the other part doesn't accept it), so why the need to tell people to "grow the fuck up"? ^^;

[zalem]

Well, Brera won't get any appreciation on the romantic front cause Ranka thinks of him as an older brother (and cause he is). I think she appreciates him, just not that way. Nor do I think he wants that kind of attention either. Neither have shown romantic feelings for the other. Brera is very protective, but like an older brother is for his little sis. Ranka is all "ALTO" and has no one else on her mind.

Considering how Ranka even used the past tense when she confessed I really don't see why anyone thinks that this episode should mean that AltoxRanka is gonna happen. It looked more like Ranka exiting from the triangle to me, even though of course who knows what Kawamori is planning .-.


It's cause I see it as a very cliche scene where Alto finally realizes his feelings now that she is gone and eventually goes off running after her. If this doesn't happen then great, but that's the way things seem to be going...

[Tak]

That said I haven't seen any shipper go gaga because "Ranka confessed" in here (I agree that a confession means nothing if the other part doesn't accept it), so why the need to tell people to "grow the fuck up"? ^^;

Oh, trust me, there are other boards out there with some rabid dogs...


It's cause I see it as a very cliche scene where Alto finally realizes his feelings now that she is gone and eventually goes off running after her. If this doesn't happen then great, but that's the way things seem to be going...

Really? Then why didn't he just go along with her? Why didn't he go after her? Simply put, he was more or less exercising an attitude of "wtf is wrong with you?"

- Tak

[Marina Ismail]

Glad you guys liked it lol.

I see Ranka's confession as "pity points". Why? Because she confessed and went off with her brother so of course Alto is going to be distressed about it and chase after her. If she had confessed and stayed, then I can see it as a big step forward for her, but once again, boo hoo Ranka's hurt. -_-

[aneeshadc]

I'm thinking if Alto really was in love with Ranka deep down, wouldnt he have tried to get her to stay anyway possible. He calls out her name, tells her not to go, but he doesnt even say I love you too even if it is a lie to get her to stay. Shouldnt he have yelled out in desperation, 'I love u too, so please stay' ?

Alto has had ample opportunities to realize his feelings for her, She's been in danger countless times, & now She 's left with an enemy he hates, considers evil & dangerous. This should have been his moment of realization but no all we get from him is him saying dont leave, not dont leave me.
I'm curious to see hw he would react if Sheryl's life was in jeopardy.

That said, I can still see an alto/ranka end as a 50% possibility but it wouldnt be as epic as an Alto/Sheryl end.

[MaiHikari]

Yeah, I'm not despairing. It's almost expected that Kawamori would do this to level the field a bit, seeing that Ranka's popularity has decreased tremendously in the past few episodes. I'd even consider it a hopeful sign. And Kawamori drops hints everywhere if you look hard enough. Like the whole Mikhail x pinaple salad thing. The little things that Alto does for Sheryl but does not do for Ranka.

Sure, he saves Ranka's life countless times, but he's playing the hero, so he'd get fired if he lets her die. But he never actively seeks out Ranka; it's always the other way around. She calls him, she texts him, she runs to him. Though he cares for her, it wasn't to the point that he's actively going out of his way to be a part of her decisions. His attitude has been always "do what you feel like"--both to respond to her singing and throwing the plane. He only reacts when he thinks she's in danger, which is understandable.

But he actually reaches out to Sheryl: going to her concert to return her earings, then hanging it in his cockpit as a charm. He choses to go with her to Galia 4 even though Ozma has already explained that she wasn't really in danger, but he accepted her invitation to fly in a real sky. He seeks her out to cheer her up after seeing her upset on the interview regarding Galaxy. He also risked security and takes her to his quarter. Then he swallowed his pride and his vow and snuck back into his home to find her. Again, he draws the arrow in the sky for her. Gets upset when she tells him she doesn't want to sing anymore and goes out of his way to convince her differently. In none of these incident were her life in danger. Yeah, she's dying, but he doesn't know that.

[Joachim]

After watching the latest episode, I think Alto will end up with Ranka no matter how much I want an AltoxSheryl ending. The spoilers for episode 23 doesn't really confirm anything...I'll start conditioning myself for an AltoXRanka ending so I won't be that disappointed in the end.

thats the exciting things about pairing wars.. to be joyful at the end if the pairing is a success or ended up being miserable and suicidal if your pairing doesn't exactly goes well :heh:

me? i'll certainly curse some foul language and headbutt my head off to concrete when my pairing is off :heh:

[Joachim]

Yeah, I'm not despairing. It's almost expected that Kawamori would do this to level the field a bit, seeing that Ranka's popularity has decreased tremendously in the past few episodes. I'd even consider it a hopeful sign. And Kawamori drops hints everywhere if you look hard enough. Like the whole Mikhail x pinaple salad thing. The little things that Alto does for Sheryl but does not do for Ranka.

Sure, he saves Ranka's life countless times, but he's playing the hero, so he'd get fired if he lets her die. But he never actively seeks out Ranka; it's always the other way around. She calls him, she texts him, she runs to him. Though he cares for her, it wasn't to the point that he's actively going out of his way to be a part of her decisions. His attitude has been always "do what you feel like"--both to respond to her singing and throwing the plane. He only reacts when he thinks she's in danger, which is understandable.

But he actually reaches out to Sheryl: going to her concert to return her earings, then hanging it in his cockpit as a charm. He choses to go with her to Galia 4 even though Ozma has already explained that she wasn't really in danger, but he accepted her invitation to fly in a real sky. He seeks her out to cheer her up after seeing her upset on the interview regarding Galaxy. He also risked security and takes her to his quarter. Then he swallowed his pride and his vow and snuck back into his home to find her. Again, he draws the arrow in the sky for her. Gets upset when she tells him she doesn't want to sing anymore and goes out of his way to convince her differently. In none of these incident were her life in danger. Yeah, she's dying, but he doesn't know that.

nice observation thumbs up ;)

[Westlo]

Why do people assume that Alto will go chasing after Ranka, I actually expect Ranka and friends to save Frontier in the last or last two episodes. I expect Sheryl to be on Quarter and her and Ranka to share a moment similar to the one from Sheryl's concert in episode 7 before they "magically" sing Lion together. Anyway by the time Ranka, Brera and Ai-kun make their Frontier save the triangle could be over..... at least the one with Alto in it :) S2 triangle is Ranka X Brera X Ai-kun!

[KiNA]

Copycat! :p

Sing lion to kill leon!

[Westlo]

If it plays out similar to how I think it will (assuming this is one season period) I suspect Leon and Battle Frontier to have gone BOOM by the time Ranka and her Varja homies show up.

[glyph]

Glad you guys liked it lol.

I see Ranka's confession as "pity points". Why? Because she confessed and went off with her brother so of course Alto is going to be distressed about it and chase after her. If she had confessed and stayed, then I can see it as a big step forward for her, but once again, boo hoo Ranka's hurt. -_-

It's a big plus for her character development though. Finally she's getting some perspective and realizing that there are more important things that only she can do that she should be doing, instead of trying to win the freaking triangle at all costs.

[Joachim]

If it plays out similar to how I think it will (assuming this is one season period) I suspect Leon and Battle Frontier to have gone BOOM by the time Ranka and her Varja homies show up.

i would love for a 2nd season.. but please do finish up this triangle before then. yes?

i dont know this become first macross all over again.. with all waiting who will win, i can't take another 20 episode of alto choosing whom :heh:

[Westlo]

God I hope they do finish the triangle if they go with a second season.... Also seems like some confirmation for 25 is in, check spoilers thread, will post the stuff if someone didn't do it already.

[magnuskn]

God I hope they do finish the triangle if they go with a second season.... Also seems like some confirmation for 25 is in, check spoilers thread, will post the stuff if someone didn't do it already.

I´ll leave it up to you, then.

[ippus]

It's a big plus for her character development though. Finally she's getting some perspective and realizing that there are more important things that only she can do that she should be doing, instead of trying to win the freaking triangle at all costs.

Er...really?
I can't understand how anyone can see this as character development.
Ranka's still a 16 year old with the selfish mind of 10.

It's only been a very short while after Mikhail got skewered by the Vajira- who clearly got more violent after she sang her "I'm in pain, I'm in pain, I'm in pain" song, yet her first reaction isn't to go hide herself in some tiny little ditch away from the rest of the world- which any sane feeling, moralistic human being would do, regardless of whether or not they intended for such a horrible situation to come about in the first place. In fact she just runs away from responsibility altogether.

But instead...she chooses to go to the side of the Vajiras. Why? Because her PET is a Vajira. Her PET. Clearly all is forgiven when a single Vajira turns out to be capable of fetching paper planes. Screw the fact they killed masses of civilians, entire fleets, MIKHAEL.
Ranka's PET is a vajira so clearly they're all good and fuzzy inside.

What more, she once again chooses a man who doesn't say no to her. Has anyone noticed this? She ditched the safety of her 'brother' Ozma for a man who said "go ahead" to every whine and whim she had, and now she's ditching him as well for her bodyguard who claims to understand everything she wants- when clearly he's just doting her spoiled little ass >_>

She hasn't changed at all.

[indr0008]

Er...really?
I can't understand how anyone can see this as character development.
Ranka's still a 14 year old with the selfish mind of 10.

It's only been a very short while after Mikhail got skewered by the Vajira- who clearly got more violent after she sang her "I'm in pain, I'm in pain, I'm in pain" song, yet her first reaction isn't to go hide herself in some tiny little ditch away from the rest of the world- which any sane feeling, moralistic human being would do, regardless of whether or not they intended for such a horrible situation to come about in the first place. In fact she just runs away from responsibility altogether.

But instead...she chooses to go to the side of the Vajiras. Why? Because her PET is a Vajira. Her PET. Clearly all is forgiven when a single Vajira turns out to be capable of fetching paper planes. Screw the fact they killed masses of civilians, entire fleets, MIKHAEL.
Ranka's PET is a vajira so clearly they're all good and fuzzy inside.

What more, she once again chooses a man who doesn't say no to her. Has anyone noticed this? She ditched the safety of her 'brother' Ozma for a man who said "go ahead" to every whine and whim she had, and now she's ditching him as well for her bodyguard who claims to understand everything she wants- when clearly he's just doting her spoiled little ass >_>

She hasn't changed at all.
everyone has their POV, although mine's the same as yours

[magnuskn]

Er...really?
I can't understand how anyone can see this as character development.
Ranka's still a 16 year old with the selfish mind of 10.

It's only been a very short while after Mikhail got skewered by the Vajira- who clearly got more violent after she sang her "I'm in pain, I'm in pain, I'm in pain" song, yet her first reaction isn't to go hide herself in some tiny little ditch away from the rest of the world- which any sane feeling, moralistic human being would do, regardless of whether or not they intended for such a horrible situation to come about in the first place. In fact she just runs away from responsibility altogether.

But instead...she chooses to go to the side of the Vajiras. Why? Because her PET is a Vajira. Her PET. Clearly all is forgiven when a single Vajira turns out to be capable of fetching paper planes. Screw the fact they killed masses of civilians, entire fleets, MIKHAEL.
Ranka's PET is a vajira so clearly they're all good and fuzzy inside.

What more, she once again chooses a man who doesn't say no to her. Has anyone noticed this? She ditched the safety of her 'brother' Ozma for a man who said "go ahead" to every whine and whim she had, and now she's ditching him as well for her bodyguard who claims to understand everything she wants- when clearly he's just doting her spoiled little ass >_>

She hasn't changed at all.

<applause> Excellent analysis. I completely agree. At least she left Alto in a way that gives him at least the possibility of letting her go.

[ippus]

everyone has their POV, although mine's the same as yours

Regardless of POV there needs to be basis for statement right?

I mean, I would understand if Ranka did something completely out of the ordinary- but the fact is she hasn't.

When Ozma said no to her singing, she did it. When Mikhael said she won't be capable of singing in front of an uncaring audience, she did it again (though it was technically cheating seeing as the side-liners decided to play BGM for her, AND she sang an already highly popular song of the time aka. Sheryl's). When Sheryl took Alto's kiss, she demanded her share, and when Sheryl took Alto away for his birthday, she barges in singing pop music to 'save' him. (Which...is again lost to me, seeing as she doesn't have the scary idealism of Basara. Why she thought singing pikapika pop music to aggravated giants will forever be a mystery to me, and note, this is before we found out her mommy's lullaby-turned-Frontier-war-music had some sort of weird effect)

She hasn't changed, she's been the same. What more her choice with guardians seem to be based on how long they can say yes to her. Alto basically nodded yes to everything she had to say- so she fell in love and thought all her achievements were due to him and solely him alone (By gum it was a PAPER AIRPLANE. IT'S NOT THAT DEEP) when clearly...it wasn't =____=

Now here we have nodding hot slut-suit Berera cyborg man who protects and says yes to every stupid decision she makes. Am i surprised that she folded away with him? Clearly not >_>

(oh crap the response got longer than I intended...yes I was fully aware that you had the same thoughts I'm sorry;;;; Seeing as nobody I know watches MF I'm sort of half venting here D8)

@magnuskn: Actually, no she didn't.
Seeing as our resident hime has a severe complex, if it's anything that would make him seem any more manlier, he'd do it. Besides, letting Ranka stay folded away won't let the plot move on, seeing as no matter how much Sheryl fans attempt to deny it, Ranka is the lead female. It doesn't say anything about whether or not she'd win Alto in the end, but she's the lead female. She needs screen time. And screen time demands the emasculated hero to masculate himself over her distress.

[kilroy0097]

What about the possibility that with her memories back and the obvious ability to control the Vajra and the pain she feels when they die that maybe just maybe she wants to go figure out why all this has come to pass? I mean even a blind person should see there is a connection between Ranka and Vajra that hasn't been discovered yet. That and it's possible Ai-kun (her pet which also happens to be a sentient being or bug or something) found a way to communicate with her and with that additional communication she has a better insight on what she is looking for. Oh and also Ai-kun didn't immediately kill her or anyone else along the way. So obviously the Vajra pet (who is also a different color for some reason) is a little different. OH and Ranka is nuts. We've already established that.

I think there are other possibilities here, not just the one ippus wrote.

[ippus]

Do you...seriously believe Ranka's capable of thinking that far?

I'm quite sure that the only thing she has in mind right now is to safely put her fuzzle back home so that people like Alto won't decide to skewer it back.

[magnuskn]

Which...is again lost to me, seeing as she doesn't have the scary idealism of Basara. Why she thought singing pikapika pop music to aggravated giants will forever be a mystery to me, and note, this is before we found out her mommy's lullaby-turned-Frontier-war-music had some sort of weird effect)

They are uncultured Zentraedi... the effect music has on them is well known in the Macross universe.

@magnuskn: Actually, no she didn't.
Seeing as our resident hime has a severe complex, if it's anything that would make him seem any more manlier, he'd do it. Besides, letting Ranka stay folded away won't let the plot move on, seeing as no matter how much Sheryl fans attempt to deny it, Ranka is the lead female. It doesn't say anything about whether or not she'd win Alto in the end, but she's the lead female. She needs screen time. And screen time demands the emasculated hero to masculate himself over her distress.

This pre-supposes that Alto is this emasculated guy who does everything to be more manly, a fallacy which BleachOD already brought out in great detail.

Not that there isn´t truth in some part of it, but Alto has been steadily moving away from his need to prove his manlyness, into a more level-headed approach to his endeavours, basically since after Gallia IV. YMMV, of course, but that is how I have seen it.

His abrasiveness towards even his friends seems to have gone away in lieu of much more care about them. Maybe it was Raramias death, which was the first mayor death he witnessed in SMS, I don´t know.

[indr0008]

Do you...seriously believe Ranka's capable of thinking that far?



damn...u stole the line that i had been wanting to say...:heh:

[glyph]

Do you...seriously believe Ranka's capable of thinking that far?
Yes she is. It's already established she has some empathy with the Vajra long before they found out Ai-kun was one. When she screamed for Alto to stop when he interrupted her communication with the Vajra queen by nuking it in the face for example. Or how she can feel their pain each time they are killed during her song. Or when she had moral qualms and called up Alto to have a talk about if it was really right.

However up until recently, she could ignore her conscience because her crush Alto assures her everything is fine. That is what "she only sings for Alto" really means.


I'm quite sure that the only thing she has in mind right now is to safely put her fuzzle back home so that people like Alto won't decide to skewer it back.

Do you really think Ranka would take such a major step just to keep cute lil Ai-kun safe? Because it means she has to give up Alto, all her friends and family, and there may not be a home on Frontier for her anymore (and she clearly knows it, hence the farewell scene).

Besides, she may already subconsciously know that the slaughter on Frontier was directly _her_ fault for sending mixed signals to the Vajra spawn under her influence (and Grace's for smuggling the Vajra eggs aboard), not the Vajra's fault for misunderstanding her intentions.

[ippus]

@magnuskn: That's supposing that Ranka actually believes that her voice has a strong effect on other beings- which she claimed she never did. In a case where you're just a small singer making a rise, believing that your songs can save people from wars really isn't the first thing that comes to mind :/

Besides, it's probably not ALL music that works, but very GOOD music. Otherwise they'd have long imported tons of music into the region and done everything they could to make armies of singers to stop skirmishes from arising. Seeing as we have neither peace nor mediocre singing armies (Hello Macross 7 8DDD) Ranka would be either extremely egotistical or just exceedingly stupid. As nobody ever wants to claim that the sweet, meek, oh-so-adorable Ranka could be possible of such a blasphemous thing as having a big ego, I'd just call her stupid.

As for Alto emasculation, I was really just saying it for amusement's sake;
He will go however. Still for the reasons of plot movement and who's higher up the scene importance list, and if his alter ego "oujiisama!!" doesn't do the trick, we still have the slave driver Ozma on his back screaming "PROTECT HER NAO!" as if it were really his responsibility >_> (Ozma you suck as a big brother)

[ippus]

@glyph: Actually, if you watch the expressions of everyone within the battlefield- asides from the very short moments of triumphant glee over their now 100% chance of survival from battle-song-lullaby, everyone shows some discomfort to the devastation and massacre of Vajiras. The only big difference being Ranka gets cramps.

Besides, empathy doesn't cut it. The fact remains that the Vajira killed hundreds, thousands, entire fleets of people. To sympathize with them for refusing to kill her alone and approaching her in the form of something cute and fuzzy is irrational and unfair.

It was even more selfish of her to expect Alto to follow her.

[glyph]

@glyph: Actually, if you watch the expressions of everyone within the battlefield- asides from the very short moments of triumphant glee over their now 100% chance of survival from battle-song-lullaby, everyone shows some discomfort to the devastation and massacre of Vajiras. The only big difference being Ranka gets cramps.

The difference being that she is the only one (besides possibly the now awakening/dying Sheryl) who actually has the power to do something about it. The risky Aimo Attack is clearly not the way, as demonstrated clearly in the previous episode. Nor is force of arms, because if Brera is correct, it will only eventually make the Vajra defenses invincible.


Besides, empathy doesn't cut it. The fact remains that the Vajira killed hundreds, thousands, entire fleets of people. To sympathize with them for refusing to kill her alone and approaching her in the form of something cute and fuzzy is irrational and unfair.

The same can also be said for the Zentradi during SW1. More actually, since they practically genocided humanity on Earth. Or for the humans who accidentally started a war with the Zentradi unprovoked with the Macross Cannon.

It was even more selfish of her to expect Alto to follow her.
As I see it, she wasn't really expecting Alto to understand and come with her. Otherwise she wouldn't have already have Brera prepped and ready to go with her. As has been pointed out, it's not so much a confession as a resignation and wish that things had turned out differently.

[ippus]

Which...is why they fought the Zentradi violently until they finally came to terms in the end? Besides, you can't honestly tell me that there are NO grudges in the Macross world against the Zentradi can you? After all, the Chinese and Korean older generation still bitch about Japan, and Japan still bitches about America.

Besides, my argument isn't so much that they killed, but that Ranka was expecting other people to feel her sense of sympathy when she's the ONLY one benefiting their kindness. The only real Vajiras she had to face consciously is one that protected her while laying eggs- and one larvae that stayed cute and fuzzy till it evolved to mighty docile paper airplane catcher.

Furthermore, her asking Alto personally to come with her was already an expectation. Just because Berera is coming also doesn't change the fact she expected Alto to agree with her ridiculous ideal.

The risky Aimo Attack is clearly not the way, as demonstrated clearly in the previous episode. Nor is force of arms, because if Brera is correct, it will only eventually make the Vajra defenses invincible.

And of course leaving Frontier with the most capable Vajira killing pilot at this crucial time is the right way to go right?

[zalem]

Really? Then why didn't he just go along with her? Why didn't he go after her? Simply put, he was more or less exercising an attitude of "wtf is wrong with you?"

- Tak

Because he is in shock. She just up and ran off with a Vajra and she confessed her love to him. I think he needs time to digest things. Once he sorts out his feelings he'll probably run after her. Or at least, that is a scenario that I can see. I REALLY hope it doesn't happen.

Don't go after her Alto! It's way too predicable!

[glyph]

And of course leaving Frontier with the most capable Vajira killing pilot at this crucial time is the right way to go right?

She is the reason all these attacks are happening, and I think she is beginning to realize this. Removing her useless liability ass (because Aimo is too dangerous to use now) from Frontier can only be a good thing, however the result of her attempt at diplomacy may turn out.

...
...
...
Besides, for a rat bastard contigency plan, they can track where she is heading (presumably through Ai-kun's homing instinct) through Brera, then deliver a planet buster to wipe out the Vajra leadership/home world/fleet in a surprise sneak attack.
Mwahahaha.

[ippus]

I think once again you're giving her too much credit >_>

She just tried to recruit possibly the two best pilots against the Vajira raid, Berera and Alto. Without them Frontier really doesn't have a chance against a mass raid (ESPECIALLY now that they've lost so many good men on the last ep), but this probably wasn't even remotely close to the upper parts of the "TO BE CONCERNED" list of Ranka Lee's 10 year old mind. She chose Berera cause he agreed and offered to go with her, she wanted Alto because she just likes him. The possibility of nuking Vajira home base is CLEARLY not something she intends to do seeing as her prime reason for going there to send Ai-kun home.

Also, if she now considers her singing as something dangerous, you'd think that going STRAIGHT to Vajira base would be the WORST POSSIBLE PLAN seeing as she has absolutely no idea if they're all aggro. or not (and to assume they're ALL docile is again, being presumptuous and painfully idealistic). That along with having only ONE lone fighter and a song that backfires without Alto being her muse (let's also add that she has just sort of given up on Alto and is also going without him)...this is the stupidest plan EVER.

And there goes my biggest understatement of the year.

[stray]

She just up and ran off with a Vajra

She ditched him... for a Vajra!!!

Affair with a Vajra is definitely up there as far as un-chaseable offenses.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Er...really?
I can't understand how anyone can see this as character development.
Ranka's still a 16 year old with the selfish mind of 10.

It's only been a very short while after Mikhail got skewered by the Vajira- who clearly got more violent after she sang her "I'm in pain, I'm in pain, I'm in pain" song, yet her first reaction isn't to go hide herself in some tiny little ditch away from the rest of the world- which any sane feeling, moralistic human being would do, regardless of whether or not they intended for such a horrible situation to come about in the first place. In fact she just runs away from responsibility altogether.

But instead...she chooses to go to the side of the Vajiras. Why? Because her PET is a Vajira. Her PET. Clearly all is forgiven when a single Vajira turns out to be capable of fetching paper planes. Screw the fact they killed masses of civilians, entire fleets, MIKHAEL.
Ranka's PET is a vajira so clearly they're all good and fuzzy inside.

What more, she once again chooses a man who doesn't say no to her. Has anyone noticed this? She ditched the safety of her 'brother' Ozma for a man who said "go ahead" to every whine and whim she had, and now she's ditching him as well for her bodyguard who claims to understand everything she wants- when clearly he's just doting her spoiled little ass >_>

She hasn't changed at all.

Nice analysis, mate. I claimed things about Ranka separately for weeks, but you summarized everything perfectly fine here.:D

I guess the only disappointment in all this situation was for Alto not man enough to yell out loud "Alright! In that case, GO TO HELL!!!" on Ranka to express is utter disappointment and anger combined.

Besides, empathy doesn't cut it. The fact remains that the Vajira killed hundreds, thousands, entire fleets of people. To sympathize with them for refusing to kill her alone and approaching her in the form of something cute and fuzzy is irrational and unfair.

It was even more selfish of her to expect Alto to follow her.

Totally irrational and stupid.:eyebrow:

That thing with empathy... did we really need that? Was it Kawamori's idea? In Escaflowne (Kawamori's own work), there was enough evil built in Zaibach to wish for the Zaibach to be scorched to the last bit of land as the answer to their world domination plans. As I can remember, I never felt so much animosity today against a huge number of enemies since the days of Blood+ when I was wishing for all the bad vampires to die to the very last one. In other words: To hell with empathy!

Asking Alto to join her was selfishness at its best indeed. That's why I wished Ranka would take a final and humiliating defeat (Minmay style) in the whole love triangle right now rather than waiting to the very end when it's 50/50.

[ippus]

Frankly, I find asking Macross to pull an old trick out of the hat is too much to ask for. Besides, Ranka nor Sheryl is a Minmay, and neither happens to be a Misa either.

I think it will be a highly probable AltoxRanka ending. But I'll be unhappy. Very unhappy.
Mostly because there's so little basis for it, and because Sheryl's just too damn awesome.

Ranka is... too much of a Mary Sue for me, and her flaunting her vagina to the world doesn't help much either :/ (Whoo I'm naked after a check up and I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT IT SO LET'S GLOMP. It's like...Ringo from AirGear and her stupid "I didn't notice it was a BONDAGE STRAP SUIT and NOT MY SCHOOL SWIM SUIT")

[glyph]

I think once again you're giving her too much credit >_>

She just tried to recruit possibly the two best pilots against the Vajira raid, Berera and Alto. Without them Frontier really doesn't have a chance against a mass raid (ESPECIALLY now that they've lost so many good men on the last ep), but this probably wasn't even remotely close to the upper parts of the "TO BE CONCERNED" list of Ranka Lee's 10 year old mind. She chose Berera cause he agreed and offered to go with her, she wanted Alto because she just likes him. The possibility of nuking Vajira home base is CLEARLY not something she intends to do seeing as her prime reason for going there to send Ai-kun home.

I never said that was Ranka's plan. However, that may be Grace's plan, which is why she allows her attack dog Brera to go off with her.


Also, if she now considers her singing as something dangerous, you'd think that going STRAIGHT to Vajira base would be the WORST POSSIBLE PLAN seeing as she has absolutely no idea if they're all aggro. or not (and to assume they're ALL docile is again, being presumptuous and painfully idealistic). That along with having only ONE lone fighter and a song that backfires without Alto being her muse (let's also add that she has just sort of given up on Alto and is also going without him)...this is the stupidest plan EVER.

And there goes my biggest understatement of the year.
Grace has already stated the Vajra are unlikely to harm Ranka for some reason. A lone fighter to bring her there by someone she trusts is the safest way to establish contact with aggravating them further.

And stupid idealistic plans have an uncanny habit of working in Macross. I won't be surprised if Ranka ends up saving Alto instead of the other way round.


Jettison all your weapons on a hunch in order to get close enough to reason with a berserk doomsday weapon.
Singing to militant alien giants in order to induce them to defect through culture shock.
Singing to Space Vampires from Beyond in the middle of battle to teach them the perks of Spiritia Creation.
Demonstrate the inherent superiority of human pilots vs. robot drones by commiting high treason by hijacking government property, breaking through Earth's defense grid to attack the Macross Anniversary celebration, in the process accidentally saving the world. OK, that last one is just stupid.

[ippus]

...I don't really understand why you brought Grace into the picture. Wasn't this discussion supposedly about Ranka's capability of thinking beyond her narrow minded self-centered little world?

And just because they don't harm Ranka doesn't mean the same courtesy is extended to her lone cyborg fighter.

The difference between this and the situations listed in the past however is the fact Ranka is planning something idiotic now that her trump cards have been rendered ineffective.

Then again, seeing as how Macross Frontier is FILLED with ridiculous plotholes, everything I'm whining about would prolly be smashed to pieces >_>

[TwilightHack]

Character development whether one way or the other is still character development.

The fact that she's left Alto, her base from day one, is a BIG step to growing up. People may claim that she's the same because of the parallel to the past, but I don't.

For a long time she's been stuck in a "I'll sing for Alto" then "Alto-kun, Alto-kun, Alto-kun" stage that she has been blind to everything else. I can understand where people get off on the fact that she did leave everyone because of Ai-kun... but understand her situation.

Say for a moment you had a wolf who has been with you since it was a little pup.

Now everyone hates wolves because in their minds all they do is kill their livestock and so forth. Even recently one of your friends was killed by a wolf attack.

Then one day, you're playing fetch with your pet wolf and a close friend comes by. He see's it and suddenly pulls out his gun.

What you YOU going to DO?
I don't think any of you with any sense of love or morality would just allow your friend to shoot your wolf who hasn't done any wrong. You'd try to reason with you friend or what not but you wouldn't let them shoot. If they couldn't be reasoned with, you'd just take your wolf and leave... right?

I can understand both sides of the story and though irrational, I do NOT blame Ranka for leaving at all. And for once, she did what she thought she had to do. And while she may still be running, the key word is still SHE because it was her own decision.

I'm personally not for Ranka but I can't stand the blindness of haters.

Anyways whatever happens, both Alto x Sheryl and Alto x Ranka are very much in the same running.

[ippus]

I think you're taking my perspective wrongly. I have nothing against her protecting HER Vajira. It was possibly the only rational thing she's done throughout the entire series.
I do however have something strongly against her actually attempting to bring Alto along, and later guilt tripping him as she departs for not agreeing that HER Vajira should be saved.

I also find it annoying how it seems that she constantly switches guardians according to who says "yes" to her, and never considers why they're saying "No".

Whether it was Ozma or Alto, it has always been the same.

Furthermore people seem to be supporting her actions by saying she's doing it to understand the Vajira better and in turn will save Frontier.
But she isn't. Her sole motivation is to save Ai-kun, not save the fleet =_=

[magnuskn]

@magnuskn: That's supposing that Ranka actually believes that her voice has a strong effect on other beings- which she claimed she never did. In a case where you're just a small singer making a rise, believing that your songs can save people from wars really isn't the first thing that comes to mind :/

Well, Ozma and her knew she was flying into danger, so it´s not as if she was oblivious to it. I still believe that she went more for Alto than for the others, so it´s still her focusing totally on him, but she didn´t fly there because she is stupid.

It´s really not necessary to make her out to be even worse a character than she already is.

As for Alto emasculation, I was really just saying it for amusement's sake;
He will go however. Still for the reasons of plot movement and who's higher up the scene importance list, and if his alter ego "oujiisama!!" doesn't do the trick, we still have the slave driver Ozma on his back screaming "PROTECT HER NAO!" as if it were really his responsibility >_> (Ozma you suck as a big brother)

Spoilers up until now have him staying on Frontier, so I rather think it´ll be Ranka returning than him going. And Ozma can´t be much on Altos back, he´s hiding from Leon. :p


As I see it, she wasn't really expecting Alto to understand and come with her. Otherwise she wouldn't have already have Brera prepped and ready to go with her. As has been pointed out, it's not so much a confession as a resignation and wish that things had turned out differently.

I may be wrong, but as far as I understood the people who watched the episode and speak Japanese, Brera wasn´t in Rankas original plans. If so, I wonder how it would have played out if he hadn´t shown up. ^^

[ippus]

Ranka would probably cry.


...And it would work, and it's so her.

I still believe that she went more for Alto than for the others

Oh I don't deny that one bit, but otherwise her actions have no basis seeing as most natural people even in that universe wouldn't go singing at the Zentradi unless they have hugeass egos *coughBasaracough*
In the end it was a stupid whim :/

*Edited...as it's 2:30am...and it seems this is where my reading ability deteriorates.
Off to sleep I go now that boredom is cured 8DDDDD

[TwilightHack]

But she isn't. Her sole motivation is to save Ai-kun, not save the fleet =_=
But it's her motivation that isn't guided by anyone else... that's huge for someone that's been following the entire series.

The only points I were trying to make is 1) Character development, and 2) I don't blame her for leaving to protect Ai-kun (buggers too cute).

I don't disagree with the rest. :D

[ippus]

Ahhh lasssttt onnneeee (Sorry, I've been on MF venting withdrawal for a week since nobody i know watches this damn thing)

Mmm I suppose I have a completely different view of how Ranka adds two and two :/
Ranka never needed people to guide her through things, and if she did, it wasn't Alto who did it. For her actions to take place she needed only two things- affirmation and the means to carry out her ridiculous act.

In the past she did everything either because Alto agreed she should do it (He never told her to do it, she'd ask, he'd agree, and she'd get to work) or the minor characters would undoubtedly cheer her on no matter the consequences, and give her everything she wants to make the impossible and retarded happen. It's like the time she went to 'save' Alto. Despite the fact she could have been killed, Mikhail and co. brought her there to sing. It was an irrational, totally unreasonable move, but it happened.

Likewise, there are strings attached to her current move, since she wasn't in a situation where EVERYONE said no to her. In fact Berera said yes, yes and more yes. If he didn't, she wouldn't have gotten anything done. This time "Saving Alto" became "Saving Ai-kun" with Berera being her Mikhail and co.

She really hasn't done anything new :/

[aneeshadc]

If you're looking at it that way , then ya, But the focal point is that for the first time ever, Ranka made her own decision, without any prompting from anyone, without lying to herself & ignoring her own conscience, without depending on Alto's approval.

It is the first pro-active step we see her taking in the entire series so far! For the Ranka that was always reactive instead of pro-active, to finally decide something for herself is a big step & is good character development for her

I dont believe she is aware that she is the reason frontier got attacked yet. I dont even think she suspects it yet. So her leaving frontier probably isnt because she believes that without her there, the vajra wont attack frontier.
I think its more along the lines of wanting to put the pieces of her past together because she feels a strange connection to the Vajra. I think she also suspects that the Vajra are innocent & not really as evil as people are making them out to be, ( she probably reached this conclusion because of her closeness to Ai-kun) & wants to end the misplaced hatred against the Vajra. Returning Ai-kun to his home is also part of it.

Even if it isnt the smartest move, the idea behind it, is still the most positive development for Ranka's transition into an adult yet.

[aneeshadc]

Why do people assume that Alto will go chasing after Ranka, I actually expect Ranka and friends to save Frontier in the last or last two episodes. I expect Sheryl to be on Quarter and her and Ranka to share a moment similar to the one from Sheryl's concert in episode 7 before they "magically" sing Lion together. Anyway by the time Ranka, Brera and Ai-kun make their Frontier save the triangle could be over..... at least the one with Alto in it :) S2 triangle is Ranka X Brera X Ai-kun!


ya, I feel the same, Not to mention there really isnt time for another ranka rescue arc with all the other stuff that they need to cover. Ranka fans hoping for a lovey dovey rescue will be sorely disappointed. Though I am terrified abt the possibility of a ranka/alto end being slightly more plausible now :(

[kilroy0097]

Because he is in shock. She just up and ran off with a Vajra and she confessed her love to him. I think he needs time to digest things. Once he sorts out his feelings he'll probably run after her. Or at least, that is a scenario that I can see. I REALLY hope it doesn't happen.

Don't go after her Alto! It's way too predicable!

Even if he did, which I don't think he will, how would he find her? Just pilot around the galaxy forever looking for her? It's not like anyone told him where she was going. Hell she doesn't even know. Ai-kun is probably directing with his claws. "bzzzzbzzz That way bzzzz *claw points towards cluster of stars*"

[Westlo]

Kilroy you underestimate the power of google maps XD Anyway I bet Ranka doesn't even know where the fuck she's going so what chance does Alto? People expecting Alto to chase after Ranka, well it won't happen imo. Also ai-kun hitching a ride on Brera's Vf-27 was so moeeeeeeeeeee

[TwilightHack]

Kilroy you underestimate the power of google maps XD Anyway I bet Ranka doesn't even know where the fuck she's going so what chance does Alto? People expecting Alto to chase after Ranka, well it won't happen imo.
Hehe, you bring up a good point... time and how Alto is supposed to accomplish said mission. I'm anticipating the next ep.

Also ai-kun hitching a ride on Brera's Vf-27 was so moeeeeeeeeeee
They should add Ai-kun to the popularity poll after Macross F is finished. :D

[aneeshadc]

I hope so, the shipping debates have become a bit of a bore with the disappearance of the Ranka fans.

Btw, I'm glad you like the scenario but in my head it's the only way Sheryl can react that still gives her a chance. Unfortunately anything can happen.


Uh huh! second that.

After reading the spoilers, ur negative scenario abt Sheryl has a very very very mild chance of actually happening * sour expession* I wonder if u spoke to soon.

Nevertheless I still stand by my earlier claim that if it were to happen, it would be completely out of character for Sheryl & a cheap attempt to bastardize her character just so Ranka can win.
I would even be able to tolerate a Ranka win ( l might be lying to myself here, but who cares) as long as they dont try to put a blemish on Sheryl's awesomeness.
I'd hate for them to destroy such a wonderful character just so Ranka can finally overshadow Sheryl. It just shouldnt be done!

[TwilightHack]

That's the great thing about spoilers, it always adds more to the debate and is ever changing until the actual ep itself!

I'm glad that they clarified in the other thread, makes me happier.

[aneeshadc]

ur rite, just saw the clarifications! I feel much more optimistic now!

[Joachim]

ur rite, just saw the clarifications! I feel much more optimistic now!


which one is that? the one with sheryl wishing alto to stay? or..

[ippus]

@aneeshadc: Again, I find Ranka's possible conclusion to believing the Vajira as innocent beings to be one that is unfair and rather selfish :/ They probably are, innocent I mean, but her only real basis for such thought, at the moment, is the fact none of them ever attacked her (JUST her) and that one of them approached her in the form of something cute and fuzzy (by the way, am I the only one miffed that Ai-kun is the ONLY fuzzy Vajira we've seen all day? Weren't the previous ones in like...eggs?)...oh and the fact she gets cramps from massacres.

The fact she lets Ai-kun out to see Alto pretty much shows that she expected him to comply at some point in time, and as other people have pointed out, Berera was never part of the plan to begin with. Her meeting with him wouldn't make any sense otherwise, seeing as she originally had no other means of pulling her plan into motion. It was another one of her "fishing for approval" scenes, only this time it was Berera who agreed and took her away.

Berera might not be the best source of approval, but it's approval nonetheless. His offer to fly her to the homeland makes it less of her personal achievement and rather more of her situational luck once again (Something she has a ridiculous amount of >_>). I highly doubt if Berera wasn't around/wasn't willing, that she'd have gone and stolen a military vehicle just to go through all that trouble.

I still cannot see this as a character developing, but rather just a change of roles within the cast.

@Joachim:
I think spoilers have claimed that Alto stays in Frontier for the rest of the Ep, so he probably wouldn't chase after Ranka.
Somehow I find this oddly Anti-climatic...like Sheryl's ignored singing feat but (LAWL 2 seconds to say "Ranka chan"!!!)....oh wells :/ No cliches FTW?


BTW Am i the only one who skips through the battle scenes? I mean the intergalactic battles are starting to feel like obligatory fillers o_O;

[aneeshadc]

which one is that? the one with sheryl wishing alto to stay? or..
They clarified that the spoilers dont say that sheryl direcly begs alto to stay with her because she's dying, he just overhears her desire to stay with him forever, smthing along those lines. Actually if u read Crisis' post in specualtions thread u'll understand better what I mean.

[ippus]

They clarified that the spoilers dont say that sheryl direcly begs alto to stay with her because she's dying, he just overhears her desire to stay with him forever, smthing along those lines. Actually if u read Crisis' post in specualtions thread u'll understand better what I mean.

Yes I read it, but I thought it was kind of apparent from the first translation o_O Did we really need clarification?

[aneeshadc]

@aneeshadc: Again, I find Ranka's possible conclusion to believing the Vajira as innocent beings to be one that is unfair and rather selfish :/ They probably are, innocent I mean, but her only real basis for such thought, at the moment, is the fact none of them ever attacked her (JUST her) and that one of them approached her in the form of something cute and fuzzy (by the way, am I the only one miffed that Ai-kun is the ONLY fuzzy Vajira we've seen all day? Weren't the previous ones in like...eggs?)...oh and the fact she gets cramps from massacres.

True, but from a writer's POV, she's the only one with a connection to the Vajra & the only one who can provide us with a perspective from the Vajra's side. I think her major driving force is her burning curiosity to find out more about her past & hw & why she feels a strange kinship to the Vajra, Why does her song affect the Vajra? Why is she the only one that has some kind of a hold on the vajra.? She wants answers, so she leaves to find them.

Its a gut feeling , I think, since her emotions are linked with the Vajra's, it could be that she some hw she feels their confusion & unwillingness to be an active participant in the war, who knows?



The fact she lets Ai-kun out to see Alto pretty much shows that she expected him to comply at some point in time, and as other people have pointed out, Berera was never part of the plan to begin with. Her meeting with him wouldn't make any sense otherwise, seeing as she originally had no other means of pulling her plan into motion. It was another one of her "fishing for approval" scenes, only this time it was Berera who agreed and took her away.

Either way, I dont see her acts as purely selfish this time around, unfair? yes, unfair to alto, I guess, to expect him to suddenly embrace Ai-kun as it was still too soon. Michael's death is still a raw wound for him to see the Vajra as anything other than a dangerous enemy at this point.

She really could have handled her farewell better, saying goodbye to him, even confessing her love for him was a good move, but bringing Ai-kun into the equation was a bad one.

Also, I believe if she had really understood him & her love was completely selfless, She wouldnt have expected, no, scratch that, I think she wouldnt have even asked him to come with her to Vajra land.

If she really had to leave, then Why didnt she selflessly opt for the silent goodbye after spending her last tender bittersweet moments with alto not telling him she was going to leave. I think that would have increased her chances with alto multifold, Such a move might have cinched her winning alto in the end.

Actually, come to think of it, even Sheryl has done that, She has tried to remove herself from Alto's life without involving him in her problems. Why could'nt Ranka do the same?

Man, Kawamori is a genius, there are so many ways we can subtly compare ranka & sheryl, that I have to wonder if he isnt purposely putting all that there for us to see & compare or I'm just over analysing things.

Confessing & then leaving only serves to hurt Alto & make him feel guilty for not being able to answer to her feelings for him. Leaving was the right thing to do under the circumstances but involving alto in her complicated situation was a selfish move on her part.

Okay, I'll give you that, she was being a little selfish by voluntarily involving alto, Hmmmm, I guess that still hasnt changed.But I still have to commend her for sticking through with her decision to leave, despite Alto's disapproval.

[NoOneKnowS]

^
It isn't unfair to Alto. It's unfair to the entire Macross Frontier. She was their hope when it comes to the Vajra. Then now we see her leaving the Frontier w/ one Vajra on her side. What? She'll gonna let Ai-kun be w/ his species then when it comes to battle she'll just sing for the people at let Ai-kun die in the hands or lets say....Alto? Isn't she like just not thinking clearly about whats the most important for the people right now? Or what if Ozma oni-chan dies in the hands of Ai-kun? All of her actions so far will just leave her in regret for the rest of her life.

[Joachim]

^
It isn't unfair to Alto. It's unfair to the entire Macross Frontier. She was their hope when it comes to the Vajra. Then now we see her leaving the Frontier w/ one Vajra on her side. What? She'll gonna let Ai-kun be w/ his species then when it comes to battle she'll just sing for the people at let Ai-kun die in the hands or lets say....Alto? Isn't she like just not thinking clearly about whats the most important for the people right now? Or what if Ozma oni-chan dies in the hands of Ai-kun? All of her actions so far will just leave her in regret for the rest of her life.

ranka currently... totally forgot about ozma, nanase , etc, did she even say anything about any of them ? nah.. nothing

so why would she care about frontier etc :heh:

okay my bad, but still it clings to my mind why ranka could care less about her brother ozma which if i recall correctly she still desperately need in some earlier episode (which ozma has said that she has grown up from that stage..only to cling on another person which was alto)

[Joachim]

@Joachim:
I think spoilers have claimed that Alto stays in Frontier for the rest of the Ep, so he probably wouldn't chase after Ranka.
Somehow I find this oddly Anti-climatic...like Sheryl's ignored singing feat but (LAWL 2 seconds to say "Ranka chan"!!!)....oh wells :/ No cliches FTW?


thanks for the confirmation both u and ippus

[magnuskn]

Alto is confirmed to stay on Frontier for at least the next two episodes, and there is no mention of Ranka returning. I can easily see a scenario where she comes back in the last episode, but it´s too late for her, because Alto already has chosen Sheryl.

[CeruleaFeng]

Alto is confirmed to stay on Frontier for at least the next two episodes, and there is no mention of Ranka returning. I can easily see a scenario where she comes back in the last episode, but it´s too late for her, because Alto already has chosen Sheryl.

Oh, I certainly hope so.

[ippus]

Alto is confirmed to stay on Frontier for at least the next two episodes, and there is no mention of Ranka returning. I can easily see a scenario where she comes back in the last episode, but it´s too late for her, because Alto already has chosen Sheryl.

Massive speculation isn't it XD?
For all we know Sheryl might die before the series ends. Even worse, maybe Alto will decide to like her only to have her die on him 8DDDD

OH NOES CHILDHOOD TRAUMA ALL OVER AGAIN D8

...

....Or maybe Basara would appear and sing to her with tentacle rape aliens and king brows to BRING HER BACK TO LIFE 8DDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DYNAMITE!
DYNAMITE!
DYNAMITE EXPLOSION ONCE AGAIN!!! (<< I hope I'm not the only one who fell off their chair when that song first debuted;;; )

*Gets overkill shot by Leon and co.*

@aneeshadc: While Ranka is truly the only one who should consider such a link, the fact remains that she has left during the worst possible time. Her move was also triggered by her PET being in danger. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen in anime constantly, bit it makes Ranka a character who is extremely self centered. She does things whenever she feels like it, when she believes it's right, with complete disregard to the situation of everyone else, let alone whether or not her beliefs are rational or not. In the end my annoyance isn't over the fact she left, but more the circumstances in which she left, and the way she left.

Besides, what Ranka did wasn't confessing her love. She openly forfeited her love, note, the past tense in her speech. Honestly I'm not exactly sure as to why, since all the explanations I could think of seem either stupid or inappropriate. She really...didn't have much reason to do that, nor does her characterization up till now showed any reason for her to turn this way >_>

[glyph]

Massive speculation isn't it XD?
For all we know Sheryl might die before the series ends. Even worse, maybe Alto will decide to like her only to have her die on him 8DDDD

OH NOES CHILDHOOD TRAUMA ALL OVER AGAIN D8

...

....Or maybe Basara would appear and sing to her with tentacle rape aliens and king brows to BRING HER BACK TO LIFE 8DDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DYNAMITE!
DYNAMITE!
DYNAMITE EXPLOSION ONCE AGAIN!!! (<< I hope I'm not the only one who fell off their chair when that song first debuted;;; )

*Gets overkill shot by Leon and co.*

@aneeshadc: While Ranka is truly the only one who should consider such a link, the fact remains that she has left during the worst possible time. Her move was also triggered by her PET being in danger. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen in anime constantly, bit it makes Ranka a character who is extremely self centered. She does things whenever she feels like it, when she believes it's right, with complete disregard to the situation of everyone else, let alone whether or not her beliefs are rational or not. In the end my annoyance isn't over the fact she left, but more the circumstances in which she left, and the way she left.

Besides, what Ranka did wasn't confessing her love. She openly forfeited her love, note, the past tense in her speech. Honestly I'm not exactly sure as to why, since all the explanations I could think of seem either stupid or inappropriate. She really...didn't have much reason to do that, nor does her characterization up till now showed any reason for her to turn this way >_>


For Alto to bring up the dying mother thing to Ranka (which is not for the benefit of the viewers, because we already know), it's almost certain that at some point Ranka will be given a choice of

1. Save Sheryl, spare Alto the heartbreak, but likely lose Alto for good.
2. Let Sheryl die, put Alto through his childhood trauma again, and win Alto on the rebound.

Macross not being the type of show with FUBARed protagonists, she will surely choose 1.

The only way I can see a RankaxAlto ending is if Sheryl rejects Alto and chooses to return to Macross Galaxy in the end to help rebuild a better Galaxy and use what she has learnt to bring hope to those in despair in that screwed up place (Galaxy needs her more than Alto, Galaxy x Sheryl ending). But then again Alto might just follow her there.

Come to think of it, Alto x Nobody is not that unlikely, even if he and both the girls survive.

[ippus]

For Alto to bring up the dying mother thing to Ranka (which is not for the benefit of the viewers, because we already know), it's almost certain that at some point Ranka will be given a choice of

1. Save Sheryl, spare Alto the heartbreak, but likely lose Alto for good.
2. Let Sheryl die, put Alto through his childhood trauma again, and win Alto on the rebound.

Macross not being the type of show with FUBARed protagonists, she will surely choose 1.

The only way I can see a RankaxAlto ending is if Sheryl chooses to return to Macross Galaxy in the end to help rebuild a better Galaxy and use what she has learnt to bring hope to those in despair in that screwed up place. (but then again Alto may choose to go with her also).


Thing is, the mother sub-plot was really there to benefit Sheryl's existence into this relationship. I sort of doubt Ranka would ever go anywhere near finding out, without the help of...well...Sheryl, since she's the only one who really knows at the moment.
I don't see any reason for Sheryl to mention such information...but since Ranka decided to randomly spurt "I use to love you" who am I really to question >_>;

Since Alto rarely ever talks about his past, I doubt he'd give off that information willingly so such a dilemma for Ranka would probably never happen :/ At least, not under the light of Alto's mommy loss.

I do hope they come back to it thought. It would be nice to see Alto with a new reaction.

[indr0008]

geh, so many spoiler tags.......make me want to open them...

[cheesie]

They clarified that the spoilers dont say that sheryl direcly begs alto to stay with her because she's dying, he just overhears her desire to stay with him forever, smthing along those lines. Actually if u read Crisis' post in specualtions thread u'll understand better what I mean.

It didn't say he "overheard", it just says he found out.

[ippus]

geh, so many spoiler tags.......make me want to open them...

most of them aren't even really spoilers lmao;;;

[magnuskn]

It didn't say he "overheard", it just says he found out.

Same diff, she doesn´t tell him, someone else does.

[hai_san]

Well after watching ep 20 i would say if the conclusion of the triangle is decide who has more screentime then definitively Ranka wins over Sheryl since with this ep there are 3 eps in which Sheryl doesnt have more then 1-2mins appearance while the whole serie focus Ranka's story. But after seeing how Ranka says "sayonara" to Alto it is also hard to imagine a Ranka&Alto ending at the moment. Sheryl&Alto ending still have the problem due to Sheryl terminal illness which of course could be a bluff from Grace which i dont believe but well i am catching at every straw to hope that Sheryl will survive...

As someone above also said Alto x noboby is getting more possible in which both girls each goes their ways, Ranka with the Vajira and Sheryl dying or goes back to Galaxy etc.

[cerrian]

If it plays out similar to how I think it will (assuming this is one season period) I suspect Leon and Battle Frontier to have gone BOOM by the time Ranka and her Varja homies show up.

Now that the subs are out and I can read these threads....


NOOOOO!!! Not Perry-kun! I actually like the guy.

[musouka]

I think, at this point in time, the only "logical" ending is a "Sheryl or no one" ending. This doesn't mean it will be a Sheryl (or no one) ending, because this certainly wouldn't be the first anime to have an illogical ending.

As far as the narrative goes, things just become strange without a Sheryl ending. Ranka, being the "focal" character of the series, has been fixated on Alto as a character, but is more firmly connected with the mysteries of the Vajra as a whole. Sheryl is connected too, but her connection stems mostly from her earrings and "why exactly is she dying?" Her story will fill in the gaps, not illuminate the whole picture.

So then the question becomes, what exactly is Sheryl's purpose on the show? A character arc where she "learns the meaning of singing" might seem good at first glance, but doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. Divorcing Sheryl's personality from her work ethic, you can see that she already understands what it means to be a singer--she's the one that explains it to Ranka, for crying out loud.

An ending where she goes on to have an amazing singing career (and nothing else) would put her right back where she was at the start of the series, making the middle section where everything slips out of her hands to fall into Ranka's ultimately without purpose. "Oh, she stumbled once but got right back up." That's an admirable character trait, but a lousy character arc.

As far as Ranka goes, I think the series has been pretty good at painting her crush on Alto as sweet, innocent, but ultimately something unobtainable and with occasionally dire consequences. She's playing the role of "Hikaru" in this particular scenario. Hikaru had to grow up, and in doing so, ended up leaving his first love, Minmay, behind. Macross wouldn't have made any sense at all in terms of his character building if it "rewarded" him for growing past his fundamentally self-centered love of Minmay by...allowing him to get together with Minmay.

So when people say "her love will be rewarded"...that's never, ever been the purpose of "first love" in any Macross series I've seen. I can't think of a single case in the series where a "crush" has ended up being the last pairing standing. The point of romance in Macross isn't "good job growing up, have a cookie!" It's "growing up is sometimes bittersweet, but you'll be all the better for it in the end".

"Selfish love" in Macross isn't portrayed as a bad thing. Crushing is pretty fundamentally selfish, if you think about it. It's human nature. Ranka isn't a bad person for wanting Alto to love her, but it does lead her to some pretty questionable decisions. However, "true love" as Macross defines it doesn't seem to be "I want you", but "I want you to be happy, even if I'm not".

I think that pretty much defines Sheryl's feelings for Alto.

[magnuskn]

I think, at this point in time, the only "logical" ending is a "Sheryl or no one" ending. This doesn't mean it will be a Sheryl (or no one) ending, because this certainly wouldn't be the first anime to have an illogical ending.

As far as the narrative goes, things just become strange without a Sheryl ending. Ranka, being the "focal" character of the series, has been fixated on Alto as a character, but is more firmly connected with the mysteries of the Vajra as a whole. Sheryl is connected too, but her connection stems mostly from her earrings and "why exactly is she dying?" Her story will fill in the gaps, not illuminate the whole picture.

So then the question becomes, what exactly is Sheryl's purpose on the show? A character arc where she "learns the meaning of singing" might seem good at first glance, but doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. Divorcing Sheryl's personality from her work ethic, you can see that she already understands what it means to be a singer--she's the one that explains it to Ranka, for crying out loud.

An ending where she goes on to have an amazing singing career (and nothing else) would put her right back where she was at the start of the series, making the middle section where everything slips out of her hands to fall into Ranka's ultimately without purpose. "Oh, she stumbled once but got right back up." That's an admirable character trait, but a lousy character arc.

As far as Ranka goes, I think the series has been pretty good at painting her crush on Alto as sweet, innocent, but ultimately something unobtainable and with occasionally dire consequences. She's playing the role of "Hikaru" in this particular scenario. Hikaru had to grow up, and in doing so, ended up leaving his first love, Minmay, behind. Macross wouldn't have made any sense at all in terms of his character building if it "rewarded" him for growing past his fundamentally self-centered love of Minmay by...allowing him to get together with Minmay.

So when people say "her love will be rewarded"...that's never, ever been the purpose of "first love" in any Macross series I've seen. I can't think of a single case in the series where a "crush" has ended up being the last pairing standing. The point of romance in Macross isn't "good job growing up, have a cookie!" It's "growing up is sometimes bittersweet, but you'll be all the better for it in the end".

"Selfish love" in Macross isn't portrayed as a bad thing. Crushing is pretty fundamentally selfish, if you think about it. It's human nature. Ranka isn't a bad person for wanting Alto to love her, but it does lead her to some pretty questionable decisions. However, "true love" as Macross defines it doesn't seem to be "I want you", but "I want you to be happy, even if I'm not".

I think that pretty much defines Sheryl's feelings for Alto.

Very well done, have a cookie. :)

I only disagree with the phrasing of "I want you to be happy, even if I´m not", as it relates to Sheryl.

So far, she has seemed to be really damned happy with what makes Alto happy, so I think "I want both of us enjoy things together and I take your wishes into account for that" seems to be a bit better to describe how Sheryl feels.:)

[Wesley84]

So...who's looking forward to seeing Ozma singing Firebomber around the campfire?

[musouka]

So far, she has seemed to be really damned happy with what makes Alto happy, so I think "I want both of us enjoy things together and I take your wishes into account for that" seems to be a bit better to describe how Sheryl feels.:)

I was mainly thinking of her dying and not telling him. It obviously makes her pretty miserable not to be able to rely on him, but I think it's more important that he not worry or be hurt about it, to her.

[magnuskn]

I was mainly thinking of her dying and not telling him. It obviously makes her pretty miserable not to be able to rely on him, but I think it's more important that he not worry or be hurt about it, to her.

Good point. It´s one undeniable part of their relationship, although the part I cited seems to have been just as important for her, back before her life turned to crap.

[musouka]

Good point. It´s one undeniable part of their relationship, although the part I cited seems to have been just as important for her, back before her life turned to crap.

Yes, but I think her terminal illness has been the lense to allow the viewers to see how much she does love him. Flirting and having fun is what made me love them as a couple, but I don't think anyone can deny at this point in time that Sheryl loves him.

I mean, "wanting someone to be happy" doesn't mean you let them walk all over you or they always get to pick where you two eat. It's more about "if this is going to hurt them, I want to be their strength, not another thing dragging them down".

To grow up, Ranka had to tell Alto her feelings, but doing so also places a burden on Alto. If Sheryl's feelings would be a burden to Alto, she'd rather carry her love to the grave.

[magnuskn]

Yes, but I think her terminal illness has been the lense to allow the viewers to see how much she does love him. Flirting and having fun is what made me love them as a couple, but I don't think anyone can deny at this point in time that Sheryl loves him.

I mean, "wanting someone to be happy" doesn't mean you let them walk all over you or they always get to pick where you two eat. It's more about "if this is going to hurt them, I want to be their strength, not another thing dragging them down".

To grow up, Ranka had to tell Alto her feelings, but doing so also places a burden on Alto. If Sheryl's feelings would be a burden to Alto, she'd rather carry her love to the grave.

Hey, I am not disagreeing with you at all. :) I just wanted to take their whole relationship into account.

[aneeshadc]

I think, at this point in time, the only "logical" ending is a "Sheryl or no one" ending. This doesn't mean it will be a Sheryl (or no one) ending, because this certainly wouldn't be the first anime to have an illogical ending.

As far as the narrative goes, things just become strange without a Sheryl ending. Ranka, being the "focal" character of the series, has been fixated on Alto as a character, but is more firmly connected with the mysteries of the Vajra as a whole. Sheryl is connected too, but her connection stems mostly from her earrings and "why exactly is she dying?" Her story will fill in the gaps, not illuminate the whole picture.

So then the question becomes, what exactly is Sheryl's purpose on the show? A character arc where she "learns the meaning of singing" might seem good at first glance, but doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. Divorcing Sheryl's personality from her work ethic, you can see that she already understands what it means to be a singer--she's the one that explains it to Ranka, for crying out loud.

An ending where she goes on to have an amazing singing career (and nothing else) would put her right back where she was at the start of the series, making the middle section where everything slips out of her hands to fall into Ranka's ultimately without purpose. "Oh, she stumbled once but got right back up." That's an admirable character trait, but a lousy character arc.

As far as Ranka goes, I think the series has been pretty good at painting her crush on Alto as sweet, innocent, but ultimately something unobtainable and with occasionally dire consequences. She's playing the role of "Hikaru" in this particular scenario. Hikaru had to grow up, and in doing so, ended up leaving his first love, Minmay, behind. Macross wouldn't have made any sense at all in terms of his character building if it "rewarded" him for growing past his fundamentally self-centered love of Minmay by...allowing him to get together with Minmay.

So when people say "her love will be rewarded"...that's never, ever been the purpose of "first love" in any Macross series I've seen. I can't think of a single case in the series where a "crush" has ended up being the last pairing standing. The point of romance in Macross isn't "good job growing up, have a cookie!" It's "growing up is sometimes bittersweet, but you'll be all the better for it in the end".

"Selfish love" in Macross isn't portrayed as a bad thing. Crushing is pretty fundamentally selfish, if you think about it. It's human nature. Ranka isn't a bad person for wanting Alto to love her, but it does lead her to some pretty questionable decisions. However, "true love" as Macross defines it doesn't seem to be "I want you", but "I want you to be happy, even if I'm not".

I think that pretty much defines Sheryl's feelings for Alto.

Awesome post. Every word of it feels so true.

Ranka in episode 21 is in clear contrast to Sheryl in episode 19 where Sheryl tried to cut alto from her life without burdening him with her feelings, not wanting to involve him in her problems while ranka did pretty much the opposite.

[Traece]

I have to agree with musouka. I have the same opinion in that Sheryl is really the woman that Alto needs. Like I've said before, they constantly rely on eachother and they're there for eachother. They support eachother constantly and that means a lot more than Ranka using Alto for support. Ranka has never truly had anything to offer Alto besides a couple laughs and some fun moments. Sheryl constantly provides Alto with support and understanding, as well as helping him with his dreams. The same goes for Alto to Sheryl, as he supports her singing career and keeps her in the right place.

At some point in time whether Sheryl is really going to die or not, she's going to have to come out with it and tell Alto the truth, as well as confess. For once, Ranka is actually a step ahead of her. Too bad she's coming out last.

Yeesh... The romance in here is starting to feel a bit like Full Metal Panic. :heh:

[justinstrife]

The romance is kind of obvious for Full Metal Panic though...

Or it better be, or you're not paying attention.

[Tak]

Yeesh... The romance in here is starting to feel a bit like Full Metal Panic. :heh:

Meh, the romance in Macross is sometimes like having a contest of who gets screwed over more?

Yes, throughout the show, everyone gets screwed one way or the other, but its usually the woman at the end of a burning rope who gets to be the winner.

- Tak