Code Geass R2 - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[KrimzonStriker]

Listen, I've never thought of him as a bad character per say I've just never seem to root for him since he's always been on top in these kinds of situations granted he has lost in quite a few (Corneila first encounter, The Black Rebellion, and getting Nunnally) I also can't think of Xingke as the bad guy in this situation since he's doing what most nobleman would do and it just so happens that Zero/Lelouch beat him to it badly I might add so seeing him getting his ass handed to a couple of times for thinking that he can kidnap the princess and come out on top is something for me to cheer about, also I'll ave ths discussion with Kallen for the romance thread.



Look, I didn't say that either, I like Xing Ke too and I admired his skill in going toe to toe with Lelouch just as much as the next person. I'm just trying to focus per say on this rather degrading outlook on what he values. And we don't need to move this to the romance thread, I'm not a Kallen shipper anyway god forbid, and I don't believe that this should be interpreted as a romantic gesture of sorts. I simply argue that yes, as a person he does value her very much, just like all his other friends, and that this was the central motivation for him to turn back and fight, for her sake rather then his 'pride' which you tried to interpret from the scene and which I find to be a defamation to his character >_>

[Rembr]

He sure likes riding on his emotional rollercoasters. Good thing it churns up interesting turn of events on the battlefield.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Code Geass R2 Episode 10 Article Is Up (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/code-geass-r2-episode-10-big-trouble-in-little-china/)

I gave this episode a 6.5 out of 10 actually because while there were some interesting developments as always, the way the battles in the second half of the series were handled did not impress me much at all and seemed extremely forced and the Pizza Hut/Cheese-Kun product placements in just about every scene possibly was about as distracting as it's ever been. Anyway it's a shame that a lot of good had to be cancelled out by a lot of weak.

[Silver Soul]

Look, I didn't say that either, I like Xing Ke too and I admired his skill in going toe to toe with Lelouch just as much as the next person. I'm just trying to focus per say on this rather degrading outlook on what he values. And we don't need to move this to the romance thread, I'm not a Kallen shipper anyway god forbid, and I don't believe that this should be interpreted as a romantic gesture of sorts. I simply argue that yes, as a person he does value her very much, just like all his other friends, and that this was the central motivation for him to turn back and fight, for her sake rather then his 'pride' which you tried to interpret from the scene and which I find to be a defamation to his character >_>

True, True, well I can't argue that he does value her live along with the other members since there weren't that many casualties (2 I believe) I guess I'm mixing his Zero persona with Lelouch's, well anyway I'm never going to be at peace until the LelouchXKallen thing is put to rest (which we never happen :upset:) after they freaking kiss and hopefully so would the pattern Lelouch kisses Shirley, kisses C.C. and finally Kallen who's next?:heh:

Code Geass R2 Episode 10 Article Is Up (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/code-geass-r2-episode-10-big-trouble-in-little-china/)

I gave this episode a 6.5 out of 10 actually because while there were some interesting developments as always, the way the battles in the second half of the series were handled did not impress me much at all and seemed extremely forced and the Pizza Hut/Cheese-Kun product placements in just about every scene possibly was about as distracting as it's ever been. Anyway it's a shame that a lot of good had to be cancelled out by a lot of weak.

Do they even need Pizza Hut anymore? :heh: Anyway I'm starting to see the same thing here with all these battles and nothing else really, Ive never thought of BK as an interesting bunch anyhow, Diethart seems to get my attention though since what he says does have a point why favor one soldier over an entire fleet regardless its not like her skills will change the tide in battle, maybe ther may be some conflict between him and the other members in the future.

[KrimzonStriker]

Code Geass R2 Episode 10 Article Is Up (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/code-geass-r2-episode-10-big-trouble-in-little-china/)

I gave this episode a 6.5 out of 10 actually because while there were some interesting developments as always, the way the battles in the second half of the series were handled did not impress me much at all and seemed extremely forced and the Pizza Hut/Cheese-Kun product placements in just about every scene possibly was about as distracting as it's ever been. Anyway it's a shame that a lot of good had to be cancelled out by a lot of weak.

Uhmm, Kaio, not to dampen your excellent review as always but... Shen Shu doesn't use radiation wave technology in its cannon according to Larkshata along with the fact the as you pointed out Shen Shu has fewer limits in comparison to other Knightmares so extra energy and all that isn't hard to imagine seeing as how Li was running on only 40% at the time... and I find Cheese-kun a funny add-on myself, distinct enough not to let me tie him into Pizza Hut, something to laugh at and C.C's obsession with it rather then making me hanker to go buy pizza :heh:

[Silver Soul]

You have to admit it gets kind of old now and seems very much unwanted I mean their trying to escape and she's got Cheese Kun hanging on the drivers' side, also I can see drama being pretty much destroyed if she's holding a cheese kun in her arms

[KrimzonStriker]

The pacing of the drama was fine in this case, they hit a bit of a lull at that point because they managed to escape for the time being, at the same time it makes a nice surprise and got a good laugh out of me on how ridiculously out of place it was :D

[Jeffry2009]

OMG! how come lelouch is in ashford academy? Or maybe we have a doppelgagger or sort off. This is very confusing ending ever although lelouch is in china. :confused:

[Ronin Aquila]

Wait a second...

So, they actually sell Cheese-Kun dolls at Japanese Pizza Hutts in our world? :heh:

[Silver Soul]

OMG! how come lelouch is in ashford academy? Or maybe we have a doppelgagger or sort off. This is very confusing ending ever although lelouch is in china. :confused:

This is CODE GEASS, it should be expected by now :heh:

[KrimzonStriker]

Wait a second...

So, they actually sell Cheese-Kun dolls at Japanese Pizza Hutts in our world? :heh:


Uhmm... yeah they do, but at this point you get used to it, plus it makes for a good laugh. I must say that after so many censorships with WacDonald's and the like, that fact that Code Geass went with the direct representation gave it a lot of guts when they first introduced it and was a pleasant surprise for me at least, as was the ensuing comedy concerning C.C's pizza obsession

[Chaos2Frozen]

You have to admit it gets kind of old now and seems very much unwanted I mean their trying to escape and she's got Cheese Kun hanging on the drivers' side, also I can see drama being pretty much destroyed if she's holding a cheese kun in her arms


C.C : "Fine, I'll do the driving, but on one condition..."


*Whisper whisper*


Zero: "...You're joking right?"

C.C: "I dislike jokes."

[KrimzonStriker]

C.C : "Fine, I'll do the driving, but on one condition..."


*Whisper whisper*


Zero: "...You're joking right?"

C.C: "I dislike jokes."

Wow, that seems so spot on I wish they'd put actually put that scene in at some point :D

[Chaos2Frozen]

Wow, that seems so spot on I wish they'd actually put that scene in at some point :D


Two words: Picture Drama ;) :p



You heard it here first...

[Verist]

Someone suggested that if Lelouch does not save Kallen she might get handed over to the Knights of the Round.. I wonder if the Emperor would Geass her against Lelouch. Maybe that is why she is crying while she is fighting in the OP :) (How's that for wild speculation)

Also, just because Anna has a pic of Lelouch as a kid, does not mean she took it.. or she took a picture of a painting or something in the palace?

[Lugia_Tsuyu]

C.C : "Fine, I'll do the driving, but on one condition..."


*Whisper whisper*


Zero: "...You're joking right?"

C.C: "I dislike jokes."

LOL. And yet he sat next to Cheese-kun. (Well, if it's me, I rather sit with Cheese-kun than Tamaki. LOL)

[Chaos2Frozen]

Also, just because Anna has a pic of Lelouch as a kid, does not mean she took it.. or she took a picture of a painting or something in the palace?

Well, it really doesn't look like a painting/picutre, and Anya seems to only take pictures of people.

What's wrong with the idea that she took it?


LOL. And yet he sat next to Cheese-kun. (Well, if it's me, I rather sit with Cheese-kun than Tamaki. LOL)

I like to think that he sat next to C.C :heh:


(No Dann, I'm not suggesting anything =_=)

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Someone suggested that if Lelouch does not save Kallen she might get handed over to the Knights of the Round.. I wonder if the Emperor would Geass her against Lelouch. Maybe that is why she is crying while she is fighting in the OP :) (How's that for wild speculation)

This post would probably fit better into the spoilers & speculations thread :p . Anyway, you aren't the first one who has mentioned the possiiblity of the emperor geassing Kallen. We'll see if that's what happens or not though...

[orangejuicetang]

Which could potentially translate into a reset button. Take that KallenxLelouch fans. lol jk, *runs and hides in a darkened corner

[Verist]

Well, it really doesn't look like a painting/picutre, and Anya seems to only take pictures of people.

What's wrong with the idea that she took it?




I like to think that he sat next to C.C :heh:


(No Dann, I'm not suggesting anything =_=)


Nothing really wrong I suppose, but she would be rocking an old phone/camera thingy for a number of years. I don't know about you, I have had 3 phones in 2 years and getting a new one July 11. I guess she is not as much a tech freak as me :)

[KrimzonStriker]

Nothing really wrong I suppose, but she would be rocking an old phone/camera thingy for a number of years. I don't know about you, I have had 3 phones in 2 years and getting a new one July 11. I guess she is not as much a tech freak as me :)

It's called uploading your old pictures into your new phone as the years go on I believe :heh:

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Which could potentially translate into a reset button. Take that KallenxLelouch fans. lol jk, *runs and hides in a darkened corner

:eyebrow:
No need to get personal about it. It could be a potenial reset button, but we've been there, doen that already.. and if they can't come up with anything better than a mindwipe, then that's rather cheap IMO :frustrated:.

[orangejuicetang]

relax, I wasn't really that serious. Like you said, they've already done a mindwipe reset, and I really doubt that they would want to repeat the same trick.

[KrimzonStriker]

relax, I wasn't really that serious. Like you said, they've already done a mindwipe reset, and I really doubt that they would want to repeat the same trick.

I wouldn't bet on it, Shirley got that same treatment IIRC :uhoh:

[Verist]

It's called uploading your old pictures into your new phone as the years go on I believe :heh:

Even though I have 8 gigs on my phone, I don't drag all my photo's to the next phone. They go on my 2.0TB of storage in my Desktop. She must have a ton of photos on that thing, with how many she takes at a time. She has got to have at least 8 years of pictures. Oh well, I'm sure it will be reveled

[demon_god04]

I wouldn't bet on it, Shirley got that same treatment IIRC :uhoh:

Yeah, but Shirley was a fairly minor character by comparison and her role in the story was basically to play out the Mao arc as it did.

[KrimzonStriker]

Even though I have 8 gigs on my phone, I don't drag all my photo's to the next phone. They go on my 2.0TB of storage in my Desktop. She must have a ton of photos on that thing, with how many she takes at a time. She has got to have at least 8 years of pictures. Oh well, I'm sure it will be reveled

Well, I wouldn't count out the technological advancements of the Code Geass world with giant mech's and floating battle ships running a muck :p

Yeah, but Shirley was a fairly minor character by comparison and her role in the story was basically to play out the Mao arc as it did.

I'm just saying there's a bit of a precedent if it should happen is all... <_<

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

I'm just saying there's a bit of a precedent if it should happen is all... <_<

Of course. But using the same reset buttons too many times gets old (of course, one could say that there's many "gets old"s about Code Geass, but still.. :heh:)
Still, it's a risk for the to take that way for Kallen, even more so because she's one of the four main characters of Code Geass (and usually, in cases where a main/major character like her gets that sort of "reset-button", it often enoigh results in the character in question recovering his/her memory at some point).

[KrimzonStriker]

Of course. But using the same reset buttons too many times gets old (of course, one could say that there's many "gets old"s about Code Geass, but still.. :heh:)
Still, it's a risk for the to take that way for Kallen, even more so because she's one of the four main characters of Code Geass (and usually, in cases where a main/major character like her gets that sort of "reset-button", it often enoigh results in the character in question recovering his/her memory at some point).

Well, whose to say that won't happen either? I still think that letter thing with Shirley might pop up one day, and Lelouch got his back, so I find it likely that this would probably the most likely scenario. Can't put Guren out to pasture forever after all, even if I do hope such a scenario will lead to dear Rolo being elevated as the new Ace for the OotBK if Kalle goes on 'vacation' ;)

[KallenMiki]

Someone suggested that if Lelouch does not save Kallen she might get handed over to the Knights of the Round.. I wonder if the Emperor would Geass her against Lelouch. Maybe that is why she is crying while she is fighting in the OP :) (How's that for wild speculation)


hmmm...I think that would be a great story. :p

[KallenMiki]

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/9512/397740khalinvt6.th.jpg
I am still wondering of the left side drawing of Kallen, in a Britanian Dress...:eyebrow:

[KrimzonStriker]

That's a spoiler and an image, re-frame from posting this stuff unless you have a tag on it Miki :uhoh:

[KallenMiki]

That's a spoiler and an image, re-frame from posting this stuff unless you have a tag on it Miki :uhoh: there...I fix it

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Well, whose to say that won't happen either?

Her recovering her memory if the brainwipe thing happens, you mean? Well, I don't see why it couldn't happen in one way or another.

I still think that letter thing with Shirley might pop up one day, and Lelouch got his back, so I find it likely that this would probably the most likely scenario.?

Dunno if Shirley's letter will really come back, but as far as Kallen go: Probably, yes.

Can't put Guren out to pasture forever after all, even if I do hope such a scenario will lead to dear Rolo being elevated as the new Ace for the OotBK if Kalle goes on 'vacation' ;)

Unless she's geassed into fightning the OotBK with the Guren, of course :uhoh: (I think Suzaku would oppose this scenario though, after all, geassing her into leaving her dangerous life would be one thing, geassing her into serving her enemies, fightning her own comrades and once again placing herself in harms's way is an entirely other one).

As for Rolo, well...
Rolo was shown with an OotBK Knightmare pilot uniform in one of the spoiler pics, so he'll partiparticle in the OotBK's battles at some point at elast, but I dunno if he'll take over the ace-spot - even moreso since it's doubtious at this point if he's truly an ace, as he seems to rely too much on his Geass. Also, Rolo's uniform was shown to be black - the same as Todou's - which implies that he hasn't taken over Kallen's spot at least since red is if I recall the spoiler correctly the color of the uniform of those belonging to Zero's body guards/personal squad.

[KrimzonStriker]

Well, when I meant Ace I meant their strongest/deadliest pilot, the trump card in battle basically, not that he'd take over as commander of squad Zero or something, just that with his Geass which isn't going away anytime soon probably, Rolo becomes an 'allyourbasearebelongtous' type away for Lelouch to claim victory if I can wager on such a prospect ;)

[Aquaman OS]

If she's brainwashed she can't be freed until almost the end of the show since they don't really have much time left. The odds are against Lelouch already without his best pilot against him as well. Even if Xingke joins he's still unreliable due to his sickness. All 12 KOR and Kallen vs Rolo and Toudou? Lelouch will get murdered. I know people like the underdog and stuff but that just unwinable. Grunts are probably useless against the KOR if they are all like Gino Anya and Suzaku.

While she could be under house arrest at home I don't see what the point would be since Lelouch could easily get into her house and Geass her watchers into not reporting anything suspicious.

The only thing I could see them doing if Britannia does indeed capture her is force her into the Geass plot by using her as a subject of Code R and messing with her body. That would of course let Lelouch angst alot about how he didn't want to get her involved and how he's ruined her life forever, which I'm sure people will like.

However I think she'll be freed by next ep and that Suzaku capturing her was an error since Xingke captured her and Lelouch already made his promise to help her which was what that info was about. Xingke might have even anticipated being betrayed and has it set up to free her and let her distract the CF with her escape while he and his forces make their own.

[KrimzonStriker]

Well, we'll see, it'd be an interesting development is all I'm saying, plus we might finally meet Kallen's mysterious father if they go with that route :D

[Aquaman OS]

That is true.

As for Rolo being the new ace. While it's true that he could make Lelouch invincible, and heck if he'd been around this ep he could have used his Geass to free Kallen and Lelouch could have continued as planned, there's a slight problem.

As long as Suzaku is around Rolo can't use his Geass without Suzaku noticing and realizing the investigation team has been compromised which would screw up Lelouch's plan and get Ashford in a whole lot of trouble. That's not something Lelouch wants which is probably why he left Rolo back at Ashford since he figured he'd be more useful there.

[KrimzonStriker]

That is true.

As for Rolo being the new ace. While it's true that he could make Lelouch invincible, and heck if he'd been around this ep he could have used his Geass to free Kallen and Lelouch could have continued as planned, there's a slight problem.

As long as Suzaku is around Rolo can't use his Geass without Suzaku noticing and realizing the investigation team has been compromised which would screw up Lelouch's plan and get Ashford in a whole lot of trouble. That's not something Lelouch wants which is probably why he left Rolo back at Ashford since he figured he'd be more useful there.

Uhh, I don't think Lelouch thought Suzaku or anyone from Britannia was going to come to the C.F though, even if he did Suzaku got taken out early by Todoue. And in any case Rolo is helping him keep up the charade in Ashford, at the same time I'm having a sneaking suspicion that the next episodes after 11 might bring about the academy days to a close and it won't really matter much in the end if Suzaku knows or not... >_>

[demon_god04]

Can't put Guren out to pasture forever after all, even if I do hope such a scenario will lead to dear Rolo being elevated as the new Ace for the OotBK if Kalle goes on 'vacation' ;)

You sure it is not for another motive... say a certain pizza eating greenhead that you want Kallen out of the way? :p

Seriously though, the Gurren flight type was just introduced I don't see them putting it on vacation so soon. Not to mention this episode made it pretty clear how the Black Knights are at a disadvantage without our lovable redhead and her clawed robot around. :heh:

[KrimzonStriker]

You sure it is not for another motive... say a certain pizza eating greenhead that you want Kallen out of the way? :p

Seriously though, the Gurren flight type was just introduced I don't see them putting it on vacation so soon. Not to mention this episode made it pretty clear how the Black Knights are at a disadvantage without our lovable redhead and her clawed robot around. :heh:

Well, who knows really? ;)

Which is why I suggest we bring in our golden, mind-freezing hitter to step up to the plate and fill in for our Ace. :D

[demon_god04]

I dunno Rollo seems to be just too much of a hack at the moment. But I wouldn't be opposed to Rollo sortieing in the Vincent, I want to see it in action more.

[KrimzonStriker]

Hey, there are about 4 other KoR's that we know of waiting in the woodworks alongside Gino, Anya, and Suzaku. At this point, you'd need a hack like Rolo in order to really compete, especially if Kallen will be detained for a little while... >_>

Plus, I'd like to see the Vincent in action more as well :p

[demon_god04]

I agree, we need more Vincent action, aside from episode two we haven't really seen it in a decent fight. And no I don't count Guilford getting blown up by the Gurren to be much of a fight. :heh:

[LastOrder]

I agree, we need more Vincent action, aside from episode two we haven't really seen it in a decent fight. And no I don't count Guilford getting blown up by the Gurren to be much of a fight. :heh:

I also agree, Rolo and the Vincent need more screen time D:

So does Orange. We need to see more of him to, which I know we will be getting alot of him, Rolo and C.C in the near future.

[Irenicus]

Okay, I know I'm late to the game, but just one question:

Was it me or there were two Lelouch's at the end, one at school and one at war? :confused:

[KrimzonStriker]

Yup, there were. All will be answered in due time, patients is required now Irenicus :p

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

If she's brainwashed she can't be freed until almost the end of the show since they don't really have much time left. The odds are against Lelouch already without his best pilot against him as well. Even if Xingke joins he's still unreliable due to his sickness. All 12 KOR and Kallen vs Rolo and Toudou? Lelouch will get murdered. I know people like the underdog and stuff but that just unwinable. Grunts are probably useless against the KOR if they are all like Gino Anya and Suzaku.

Yeah, this is IMHO the greatest reason for why they won't go the "brainwashing-route" - it simply puts the OotBK at too much of a disadvantage.

While she could be under house arrest at home I don't see what the point would be since Lelouch could easily get into her house and Geass her watchers into not reporting anything suspicious.

Well, if it's her home is in Britannia (not the Area 11 one), it'll take Lelouch some time to find it and get there if nothing else, meaning that we might at least get introduced her father (a possiiblity others have mentioned). We'll see though...

The only thing I could see them doing if Britannia does indeed capture her is force her into the Geass plot by using her as a subject of Code R and messing with her body. That would of course let Lelouch angst alot about how he didn't want to get her involved and how he's ruined her life forever, which I'm sure people will like.

Well, this scenario is somewhat better than the brainwashing-scenario, but not by much and I don't like it :upset: .

However I think she'll be freed by next ep and that Suzaku capturing her was an error since Xingke captured her and Lelouch already made his promise to help her which was what that info was about. Xingke might have even anticipated being betrayed and has it set up to free her and let her distract the CF with her escape while he and his forces make their own.

We can always hope! :)

[Pink-chan]

Rolo will be in action soon. I thought he "wasn't suited for war and fights" as mentioned by his beloved brother? :heh:

I can't help to think that Kallen won't be rescued in the next episode.

Kallen's in dress is introduced at the same period as Rolo in pilot suit. Both designs are not in colours yet.

Someone has to fight along with Lelouch. C.C. probably does it in the next episode, after that Rolo will join in.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

I can't help to think that Kallen won't be rescued in the next episode.

Someone has to fight along with Lelouch. C.C. probably does it in the next episode, after that Rolo will join in.

Yeah, I fear that that's it (there's also the words from Tanaguchi/the team that the OOtBK will have to learn to fight more like a group this time atound or whatever). However, I hope she won't be left out of the battlefield for too long...

[Pink-chan]

Yeah, especially their leader can be outwitted by their "enemy".

Since Guren isn't thrashed, it will be back in action for sure.

[KrimzonStriker]

Uhh, Pink, about Rolo, I think the picture in question you were referring too was in color, black and red with gold trimming ;)

[Pink-chan]

Uhh, Pink, about Rolo, I think the picture in question you were referring too was in color, black and red with gold trimming ;)

Which magazine it was in? I believe I didn't see it in my copies despite seeing the scan somewhere. :upset:

[KrimzonStriker]

Check the spoiler and speculation thread, I posted the link there from the stuff Koshimizu brought up for us :p

[Pink-chan]

Thanks! I wish we can see Rolo in action soon. It's another 5 days before the next episode :upset:.

[Slighted]

ahh good episode. there is definitely something wrong with there being a duplicate LL at the academy. crazy!
I also think we will 'find Rolo on the Ikaruga hiding somewhere. I'm also thinking someone is going to die in the next few episodes. I can't help but think it's Schneizel.

[bladeofdarkness]

you know i dont think the OOBK are in as much of a bind as you would think
yes they did lose kallen (their ace) and the gurren (their biggest hitter)
but take the rest in to account

right now they have a small army of akatsuki units who are at least as good as the glosster units that the britannia elite use (after all its an upgraded gekka) which is far better then anything china has

they have asahina and chiba who are not exactly mooks (so far we havent really seen what they could do with the float units.but they are some of the best ground fighters so far for piloting MP models rather then uniqe one of a kind KMF'S like the gurren) and they both have a suped up akatsuki units thats wired with the gurrens fukshahdo shield and missliles

they have toudou (who held his own against li and the shen hu) and his new zangetsu unit that seems on par with most 7th gen KMF's

they have a floating ship that's got shield's and hardon cannon's (cant tell yet how well it can match against the avalon)

and we have yet to see what zero's new model can really do (if it's anything like the gawin its gonna be badass)

and its not out of the question that rolo might join up with them (his geass makes him the best to have against the KOR since he can take anyone of them out in one strike before they even know what hit them)

add to that lulu's strategies and geass (which can work on anyone other then suzaku)
they are not out yet

the loss of kallen is a big one but not a fatal one
from a stratigic point of view its the loss of the gurren thats the bigger problem as pilots can be replaced

kallens loss is ment as a moral and personal blow to the OOBK and lulu (it seems to work as lulu risked all to try and save her) and the way he reacted when she was captured (the radio call) was not lost on anyone

[Aquaman OS]

They might win but as far as Lelouch is concerned if they don't get Kallen the battle was lost. She's one of his close people he now prioritizes over everything else remember? The Order might consider her only a pilot that they can get another of but to Lelouch she's irreplacible. And she's really the closest thing the Order has to a KOR like one man army.

[bladeofdarkness]

They might win but as far as Lelouch is concerned if they don't get Kallen the battle was lost. She's one of his close people he now prioritizes over everything else remember?

you mean she took nanalli's place as his reison d'tre

[Tokkan]

you mean she took nanalli's place as his reison d'tre

The entire student council, including Kallen, has taken that place.

[Aquaman OS]

No she joined Nunnally in that group. So his reaction to Kallen's loss will be like Nunnally's at the end of last season, only difference being the Order actually supports going after her because Kallen is like family to them where as asking them to go save a random crippled Britannian girl would probably cause them all to quit or lynch him.

[bladeofdarkness]

The entire student council, including Kallen, has taken that place.
and the question that it leads to is : does that include suzaku (the guy who sold him out to the emp. to be used as bait and killed after he played his part)
or how about nina (who tried to stab him last ep and is clearly off the deep end)
the end of ep 7 was very nice and idealistic
but since when has code geass been about ideals
if you take season one's ending into account it might end very badlly this time around to

No she joined Nunnally in that group. So his reaction to Kallen's loss will be like Nunnally's at the end of last season, only difference being the Order actually supports going after her because Kallen is like family to them where as asking them to go save a random crippled Britannian girl would probably cause them to quit.

then again dithart is right
a commander cant just risk all to save one soldier in the middle of a war

[Aquaman OS]

Lelouch doesn't really care about the arts of war and all that. His friends come first, no matter what.

[bladeofdarkness]

last season he did that (fuck the arts of war i need to save my sister)
it didnt end well

[Formely_anon]

then again dithart is right
a commander cant just risk all to save one soldier in the middle of a war

You say that but things are never that simple. The US army for instance will go to extreme lengths to recover missing soldiers or even just dead bodies and remember that Karen is a symbol of the resistance, one of their heroes, so they lose a lot more than one soldier if they lose her. Also I'm assuming they don't want the Chinese to get that mech of hers either, it's both symbolic and apparently very nicely kitted out.

If you're too cold and calculating all the time your men begin to feel you're treating them like pawns (which you may be) so it's not always best to make rational decisions, building up a reputation is very important as well. Think about it, only Dithart reacted poorly to the decision, everyone else was totally up for it.

Also Zero underestimated Xing-ke, so he thought he probably had a fair chance of winning that battle right then and there. Zero's weakness seems to be pride and he rarely factors in for random chance and fate, or things he hasn't thought of himself.

[bladeofdarkness]

im not saying that kallen is just one soldier
i posted a big post in page 22 about the moral backlash that can resolt by her capture
but for a commander to show favorite treatment to one soldier above all others (keep in mind that all the black knights aside form kallen did spend a whole year in prison before R2 started) is a bad strategic move
after all what if they do get her back
what happens when they go into battle next time
would he keep he away from it to keep her safe

no doubt anyone would feel the need to save a captured fellow soldier
and it goes even farther when its someone you know (and infinitly more so when she's female)
but from a stratigic point of view its not a good idea

even still i hope he goes and gets her back come hell or highwater
after all just becouse ZERO shouldnt risk the whole OOBK to get one soldier back it doesnt mean that Lelouch Lamperouge cant try to save his friend (he does have a geass and almost no one know's him

[Irenicus]

Zero is back to being a good guy for once. Whew. Evil laughs are fine (he does it again anyway, much to Seiran's -- I meant Xing-ke's of course, I always mean Xing-ke, not Seiran at all, no, let's just ignore the fact that they sound the same and act the same and even got a royalty to adore shall we? -- amused irony :D ) but evil acts and the "pretty anti-hero" label gets it. Anti-heroes never do evil acts, they just act evil. Sort of.

Saving Private Kallen might have unintended results later on; and it does "humanize" the God, much to Diethard's obvious displeasure. But to the Black Knights' commanders it's probably the best thing Zero could do. Nobody cared even if Zero lost the battle: he tried, hard, for "their" sake, against odds he knew was not very favorable. Huzzah, Zero, what an angelic hero (let's ignore the fact that he pointed a gun at a loli last episode)!

You know what we need next episode in Code Geass? Tom Hanks! In mecha! Firing Hadron cannon thingies!

Yup, there were. All will be answered in due time, patients is required now Irenicus :p
Be patient, I will. A choice, I do not have. :p

(Is bored am I, playing Yoda).

[Orga777]

Well, I found the episode to be a perfect 10 IMO. There was a little of everything in it. Good action, decent development, another good 'chess' match between two opponents in battle, a backstabbing, and Lelouch's plans getting owned. Everybody wins!

[wesfalcon]

I have a quick question.... do Suzaku and Millay know that Lelouch is a Brittanian prince? I always thought the two of them are the only ones in Ashford that knows that secret. Suzaku knows because he knows Lelouch since small and also the son of the PM. Millay knows because she's the one who introduced the school to Lelouch and her family is close to Marianne's family. But seems like they're not aware of that fact or dismiss it lightly? I'm quite confused about who knows about this secret and who doesn't...

Ashford students + Rollo -> don't know
Kallen -> maybe she knows because of Nunnaly?? but never being mentioned
OOTBK -> don't know
Kyoto old guy -> knows
Brit Emperor + V.V. -> know
The rest of Brittanian family -> don't know, all his siblings thought that he was dead while in Japan
Euphie -> knows

I cant understand how come Suzaku and Millay knows, but Cornelia doesn't know. How come Suzaku doesn't share this secret with the other Knight of Rounds or Schneizel?? It would help him to beat Lelouch rite?

[Orga777]

I have a quick question.... do Suzaku and Millay know that Lelouch is a Brittanian prince? I always thought the two of them are the only ones in Ashford that knows that secret. Suzaku knows because he knows Lelouch since small and also the son of the PM. Millay knows because she's the one who introduced the school to Lelouch and her family is close to Marianne's family. But seems like they're not aware of that fact or dismiss it lightly? I'm quite confused about who knows about this secret and who doesn't...

Well, Suzaku still does, but Millay I don't think remembers anymore since her memories were altered.

I cant understand how come Suzaku and Millay knows, but Cornelia doesn't know. How come Suzaku doesn't share this secret with the other Knight of Rounds or Schneizel?? It would help him to beat Lelouch rite?

Perhaps Charles didn't want it getting out? Not really sure why he didn't. Maybe he could still care for Lelouch in some way. Could be many things.

[Aquaman OS]

At the moment Suzaku doesn't think Zero is Lelouch since "Lelouch" is apparantly back at Ashford while Zero is in China and the investigation team isn't reporting anything. He had his suspicions but he has no concrete proof.

That would also put Nunnally and the Ashford guys in danger which is something I doubt Suzaku wants since he's friends with them, and he's shown this season not to be at heartless as expected.

[KrimzonStriker]

and the question that it leads to is : does that include suzaku (the guy who sold him out to the emp. to be used as bait and killed after he played his part)
or how about nina (who tried to stab him last ep and is clearly off the deep end)
the end of ep 7 was very nice and idealistic
but since when has code geass been about ideals
if you take season one's ending into account it might end very badlly this time around to

then again dithart is right
a commander cant just risk all to save one soldier in the middle of a war


You ever heard of a guy named Yagami Light blade? Here was a tactical genius that resorted to anything and everything, sacrificed everyone for the sake his goals, but in the end all he really accomplished was to become the very thing he hated and despised which eventually led to his downfall in the long-term versus his short-term gains he made through his methods. Ideals are often what motivate a person to begin with, that was true for Lelouch as well, but they are also necessary in order to sustain the character through the hardships that they have to face along their struggle. If this is the case, what good is it to lose one battle but end up losing the war in the end, if only too yourself? In this case, it does not matter if Lelouch may never realistically achieve this desire to reunite with everyone, though in truth he could still do this because no one knows of his recovery yet or his identity as Zero, but for him to still consider Suzaku his friend or to still value the ideas he helped passed on speaks well of Lelouch's own character in this case. He will still fight, continue on with the rebellion, but that memory, that ideal will still remain in his heart in order to urge him forward and help him remain true to his goals. And this will serve to benefit him in the end, a good ending mind you because that's what the staff says will be in store for Lelouch, a good ending (even if he dies) ;)

[Dream_Traveller]

You ever heard of a guy named Yagami Light blade? Here was a tactical genius that resorted to anything and everything, sacrificed everyone for the sake his goals, but in the end all he really accomplished was to become the very thing he hated and despised which eventually led to his downfall in the long-term versus his short-term gains he made through his methods. Ideals are often what motivate a person to begin with, that was true for Lelouch as well, but they are also necessary in order to sustain the character through the hardships that they have to face along their struggle. If this is the case, what good is it to lose one battle but end up losing the war in the end, if only too yourself? In this case, it does not matter if Lelouch may never realistically achieve this desire to reunite with everyone, though in truth he could still do this because no one knows of his recovery yet or his identity as Zero, but for him to still consider Suzaku his friend or to still value the ideas he helped passed on speaks well of Lelouch's own character in this case. He will still fight, continue on with the rebellion, but that memory, that ideal will still remain in his heart in order to urge him forward and help him remain true to his goals. And this will serve to benefit him in the end, a good ending mind you because that's what the staff says will be in store for Lelouch, a good ending (even if he dies) ;)

Ever heard of the actual properties of Code Geass?

Yeah. Code Geass isn't Death Note's twin. Get it into your head.

[Tokkan]

Ever heard of the actual properties of Code Geass?

Yeah. Code Geass isn't Death Note's twin. Get it into your head.

... Krimson was actually only using Light as an an example of what Lelouch is not, if I'm reading his post correctly.

[KrimzonStriker]

Ever heard of the actual properties of Code Geass?

Yeah. Code Geass isn't Death Note's twin. Get it into your head.

I merely used it as an example Dream, chill and because so many people are found of it i thought it would be a good way to get my point across. God forbid you think I'm an actual supporter of all this constant ripping comparisons between Death Note or Gundamn Seed every freaking 5 seconds, but if you had looked at the construction of my whole post you'd find that I was trying to point out that Lelouch isn't like that bastard Light which should actually help differentiate the two brands actually, as Tokkan thankfully pointed out :rolleyes:

Oh, and thanks for the assist BTW Tokkan :)

And do you actually think Lelouch would have achieved any type of real victory had he resorted to something as ruthless, almost Charles-like, as that decision represented? Even if he did win the war in the end, he would eventually lose himself by continuing to resort to such measures, and what kind of victory is that? It's like being alive but living as if you were a corpse, a hollow victory much like the kind of life Lelouch used to lead before he gained Geass. In truth, Lelouch and Suzaku often represented two extremes and different points of view, but the ideal road would be to take the one incorporating both of them, the middle road and one in which I encourage and believe Lelouch travels on in order for him to truly succeed ;)

[bladeofdarkness]

light was the main character of death note but he was also the villan
Lelouch is the anti-hero (and this season much more of a hero at that)
but the world of code geass is much more complicated
what i think Lelouch wants is not really for all of them to go back to school together
but rather to make a world where they wouldnt be fighting each other
and thats very idealistic
and so far code geass has been on the reallistic side of the scale and not so much on the idealistic one
in other words (if something can go one of two ways. it will go the way that leads to more problems for everyone)

and for the record Lelouch did resort (or even chose to do without being forced to) some really fucked up things before
the thing that ended up killing shirlys dad
blowing up the JLF boat
and right down to ep 9 of r2 when he holds a gun to a little girls head just to name a few
both light and Lelouch think the ends justify the means
the big diffrence between Lelouch and light is that light gets lost in the means(he goes from killing only bad people to killing anyone who stands in his way or even talks shit about him)
while Lelouch always thinks of the endes

[KrimzonStriker]

light was the main character of death note but he was also the villan
Lelouch is the anti-hero (and this season much more of a hero at that)
but the world of code geass is much more complicated
what i think Lelouch wants is not really for all of them to go back to school together
but rather to make a world where they wouldnt be fighting each other
and thats very idealistic
and so far code geass has been on the reallistic side of the scale and not so much on the idealistic one
in other words (if something can go one of two ways. it will go the way that leads to more problems for everyone)

But look within the means in which he tries to achieve these idealistic goals. A realistic answer of armed rebellion, against a society that would never allow for the type of reforms he asks for and he knows it unlike Suzaku. Why can't we simply approach this as the middle road, often times viewed as the best one, why must we now choose one or the other I ask you, between realism and idealism when based on what we've seen they can both incorporate one another and often do cross paths?

[bladeofdarkness]

But look within the means in which he tries to achieve these idealistic goals. A realistic answer of armed rebellion, against a society that would never allow for the type of reforms he asks for and he knows it unlike Suzaku. Why can't we simply approach this as the middle road, often times viewed as the best one, why must we now choose one or the other I ask you, between realism and idealism when based on what we've seen they can both incorporate one another and often do cross paths?

im with you as an idea and i am hoping for a happy ending
i just cant see it happen just that simply
after all in all of history when ever someone stood up and said lets make peace it almost always leads to his being killed and the start of a huge bloody war
(humans are just funny like that)

[MrCapcom]

I havent read all of the posts but can someone explain to me why lelouch can be in two places at once? Seems like hes in ashford and the mountain thingy:confused:

[bladeofdarkness]

I havent read all of the posts but can someone explain to me why lelouch can be in two places at once? Seems like hes in ashford and the mountain thingy:confused:

he split in two
his evil side (muhaahahaahaahaahaa i have you now my pretty!!!)
and his indiffrent side (i dont care)
(just kiddin)
no one knows for sure but its probably and imposter at school

[MrCapcom]

he split in two
his evil side
and his indiffrent side
(just kiddin)
no one knows for sure but its probably and imposter at school

Thanks I was like wtf? Maybe a life model decoy? Code Geas Vs Marvel

[KrimzonStriker]

im with you as an idea and i am hoping for a happy ending
i just cant see it happen just that simply
after all in all of history when ever someone stood up and said lets make peace it almost always leads to his being killed and the start of a huge bloody war
(humans are just funny like that)

It doesn't need to be simple, it just needs to happen ;)

Of course, that would be the case with say, an idiot like Suzaku, but unlike him Lelouch answers war with war in this case, he knows how to play within the confines of his cage, in order to maybe one day break out of it. And don't worry about it, live or die, Lelouch should get a good ending nonetheless :D

[bladeofdarkness]

Thanks I was like wtf? Maybe a life model decoy? Code Geas Vs Marvel

marvel
like a skrull

It doesn't need to be simple, it just needs to happen

Of course, that would be the case with say, an idiot like Suzaku, but unlike him Lelouch answers war with war in this case, he knows how to play within the confines of his cage, in order to maybe one day break out of it. And don't worry about it, live or die, Lelouch should get a good ending nonetheless

im all for it

[Orga777]

I havent read all of the posts but can someone explain to me why lelouch can be in two places at once? Seems like hes in ashford and the mountain thingy:confused:

Well, it is probably... something else... I am not honestly sure what is going on there, but the one at Ashford is definitely a fake.

[Crontica]

Well, it is probably... something else... I am not honestly sure what is going on there, but the one at Ashford is definitely a fake.

i smell a juicy plot twist ;) but if Lulu geass'd the fake lulu to act exactly like him then i guess it will be hard to break this though doppelganger ... unless he forgot to make memory modifications then the fake lulu may spill the beans to suzaku on accident.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

i smell a juicy plot twist ;) but if Lulu geass'd the fake lulu to act exactly like him then i guess it will be hard to break this though doppelganger ... unless he forgot to make memory modifications then the fake lulu may spill the beans to suzaku on accident.

Geass doesn't work that way. It can't grant the Geassed individual any abilities it didn't have previously. The best it can do is to make someone trying impersonate Lulu as best as he can. And what you would get, is the Impersonator would behave in a way that he think looks like Lulu.
(Just as Elvis Impersonators trying to behave like Elvis; It doesn't work that well.)


Effectively, unless Lulu Geassed an A-grade Actor who had observed Lulu's behaviour over a long period of time, using a Geass to create a believable doppelganger is completely impossible.

But if you hired a ninja instead...:D

[bladeofdarkness]

just a question i had after watching this ep again
the britannien KMF's are given english name (satherland .lancelot ect)
and the japanese KMF's are given japanese names (gekka .burai. gurren etc)

rakshata's team was the one developing both the gurren and the shen hu
she's from india
why the hell is one KMF named gurren (japanese name) and the other shen hu (chinese name) if both are made in india
you could say the gurren was named something else and then renamed before they gave it to the japanese
but rakshata said she had no idea that the shen hu was given to the chinese (showing she never expected it to be given to them and there for had no reason to name it as such)
and yet she still called it shen hu which means it was named shen hu during the development stage
what is up with that logic

[KrimzonStriker]

just a question i had after watching this ep again
the britannien KMF's are given english name (satherland .lancelot ect)
and the japanese KMF's are given japanese names (gekka .burai. gurren etc)

rakshata's team was the one developing both the gurren and the shen hu
she's from india
why the hell is one KMF named gurren (japanese name) and the other shen hu (chinese name) if both are made in india
you could say the gurren was named something else and then renamed before they gave it to the japanese
but rakshata said she had no idea that the shen hu was given to the chinese (showing she never expected it to be given to them and there for had no reason to name it as such)
and yet she still called it shen hu which means it was named shen hu during the development stage
what is up with that logic

India isn't exactly independent, they are directly influenced by the Chinese Federation government, so under these conditions no matter what, Shen Shu would also still be under the control and in the service of the C.F even as a part of the Indian Armed Forces. At the same time, you also have to remember that Shen Shu was never able to actually be put into service thanks to the stress it places on the pilot, maybe it was always intended for use by the C.F., but because of this design flaw it was put out to pasture in the Indian storage facilities and Larkshata never expected to see it on the field, by anyone.

[demon_god04]

It could also be that India just gave it to the CF as a tribute expecting that the CF would never be able to actually field the Shenhu. :heh:

[Aquaman OS]

I beleive the question is, why does Shen Hu have a Chinese name when it was never initally built for the Chinese?

[KrimzonStriker]

I beleive the question is, why does Shen Hu have a Chinese name when it was never initally built for the Chinese?

Who said it wasn't? Perhaps initially it was built for them, but because it couldn't be fielded by anyone they retired it before it could actually be used, India is still a part of the Chinese Federation after all even if they are vying for independence >_>

[orangejuicetang]

or maybe they named it afterwards? How about during the actual building stage Shen Hu might have been called model A and Gurren could have been called Model B, and named them later. It's not like the name is the most important thing for a KMF. Or the CF could have simply renamed it.

[bladeofdarkness]

or maybe they named it afterwards? How about during the actual building stage Shen Hu might have been called model A and Gurren could have been called Model B, and named them later. It's not like the name is the most important thing for a KMF. Or the CF could have simply renamed it.


if the cf renamed it then rakshata wouldnt have called it shen hu (she wouldnt know its name)

[KrimzonStriker]

if the cf renamed it then rakshata wouldnt have called it shen hu (she wouldnt know its name)

So we can assume it was named Shen Shu at the beginning of its development, but even then there are still a lot of possible explanations concerning such an issue and at the same time its pretty minor and not that big of a deal to be worried about I don't think >_>

[kk2extreme]

wow after this ep i like Li xingke even more, he is proven to be a great tactician, lover, fighter, pilot, hero, and he can incorparate idealism and realism at the same time (not to mention handsome). he is more of a man than suzaku can ever be :P (no offense suzaku supporters :heh: ) for some strange reason, he did not get the respect from his country (i dont blame him for the coup) but instead he got his praise from zero.

[Silver Soul]

On the subjects of indians, I found it odd when in the recent episode that Zero said to Diethart that the indian army cannot be trusted because of the unexpected attack by Shen Hu
and it made it feel like he said that as an excuse so they can stay and fight off the army to get Kallen back and by the end they were waiting for reinforcements from them, now whats up with that? :confused:

[KrimzonStriker]

On the subjects of indians, I found it odd when in the recent episode that Zero said to Diethart that the indian army cannot be trusted because of the unexpected attack by Shen Hu
and it made it feel like he said that as an excuse so they can stay and fight off the army to get Kallen back and by the end they were waiting for reinforcements from them, now whats up with that? :confused:

Uhh, yeah, it was basically an excuse to stay and get Kallen back, what gave it away exactly? :heh:

As for Shen Hu, well, there was a legitimate concern because India chose to hand it over to the Eunuch's which in turn was used against the Order. I can't fault them for having a few suspicions, but basically yes it was just a rather lame cover-up on Zero's part in this event but there isn't really much else to suggest that India might not still help out the Order anyway towards the end :p

[Silver Soul]

Uhh, yeah, it was basically an excuse to stay and get Kallen back, what gave it away exactly? :heh:

As for Shen Hu, well, there was a legitimate concern because India chose to hand it over to the Eunuch's which in turn was used against the Order. I can't fault them for having a few suspicions, but basically yes it was just a rather lame cover-up on Zero's part in this event but there isn't really much else to suggest that India might not still help out the Order anyway towards the end :p

But how long ago was it since it seems they've had Shen Hu for sometime before Lelouch became Zero, but to me the Indian Army seems to be neutral on the whole ordeal if they manage to give away such a powerful frame do maybe they're not 100% commited to the cause as Diethart says.

[KrimzonStriker]

But how long ago was it since it seems they've had Shen Hu for sometime before Lelouch became Zero, but to me the Indian Army seems to be neutral on the whole ordeal if they manage to give away such a powerful frame do maybe they're not 100% commited to the cause as Diethart says.

Shen Hu was developed around the same time as Guren, so for about a year actually. At the same time, yes, there does seem to be a bit of self-interest going on in India right now along with diverging opinions on how to go about it, at this point I think they're just willing to go with whoever they think will benefit them the most, which as Chiba pointed out meant they weren't likely going to commit themselves to rescuing the Order from the mausoleum. But should the Order prove themselves in this next battle I think it safe to assume India will want to stay as friendly as possible with them afterwards ;)

[Silver Soul]

Well we all know who's going to be on top, the real question is what sacrifice would have to be made in order to win since these kinds of battles always seem to end in sometime tragic or a lost within especially if they have the nerve to make the next episde is in complete contrast to what's going on

[KrimzonStriker]

Well we all know who's going to be on top, the real question is what sacrifice would have to be made in order to win since these kinds of battles always seem to end in sometime tragic or a lost within especially if they have the nerve to make the next episde is in complete contrast to what's going on

Yup, should be exciting don't you think? :p

[Silver Soul]

Yup, should be exciting don't you think? :p

Yeah, but hopefully we get more details on C.C. and geass next episode too, man I'll like to see how Lelouch/Zero gets out of this one:p

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

Finally they are going to show something about CC and the geass powers and Orange Kun. I feel like CC is a side character until now.

[KrimzonStriker]

Finally they are going to show something about CC and the geass powers and Orange Kun. I feel like CC is a side character until now.

Hey, you have to save your best stuff for last. :p

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

Hey, you have to save your best stuff for last. :p

Yeah that's true I hope they reveal something so shocking I would turn blind. :)

[KrimzonStriker]

Yeah that's true I hope they reveal something so shocking I would turn blind. :)

Well, one thing at a time, we're only at like around the half-way point right now. Hopefully this will be good though, whatever they may choose to reveal :heh:

[bladeofdarkness]

Well we all know who's going to be on top, the real question is what sacrifice would have to be made in order to win since these kinds of battles always seem to end in sometime tragic or a lost within especially if they have the nerve to make the next episde is in complete contrast to what's going on

i think the answer should be clear about that
there is only one real way to end it and that would be for zero to win the fight but not be able to save kallen for the time being
it could be that they fight their way out but are forced to use that time to escape
or that kallen gets handed over to britannia by the Eunuch and he doesnt learn that until they retreat
anyway the only real way for this to end is with the OOBK winning the battle but lulu losing kallen for the time being
it also makes sense as far as plot points go becouse having kallen captured by the enemy and not using this chance to have her interact with the main enemy characters at all is just not like sunrise (they did hammer in the point that gino has a thing for her.) plus milly is there at the same time so it's just to good to pass out on
besides after seeing lulu's reaction to her being captured (breking in cold sweat.forgeting that he was trying to get away with tien ze and fielding his whole army just to get her back) its not possible for her to go back and not have her and lulu relationship upgraded and having that happen now when the show is not half way over seems out of the question

[KrimzonStriker]

i think the answer should be clear about that
there is only one real way to end it and that would be for zero to win the fight but not be able to save kallen for the time being
it could be that they fight their way out but are forced to use that time to escape
or that kallen gets handed over to britannia by the Eunuch and he doesnt learn that until they retreat
anyway the only real way for this to end is with the OOBK winning the battle but lulu losing kallen for the time being
it also makes sense as far as plot points go becouse having kallen captured by the enemy and not using this chance to have her interact with the main enemy characters at all is just not like sunrise (they did hammer in the point that gino has a thing for her.) plus milly is there at the same time so it's just to good to pass out on
besides after seeing lulu's reaction to her being captured (breking in cold sweat.forgeting that he was trying to get away with tien ze and fielding his whole army just to get her back) its not possible for her to go back and not have her and lulu relationship upgraded and having that happen now when the show is not half way over seems out of the question

And Rolo can fill in her spot as the Orders new pinch-hitter Ace for the time being while she's gone ;)

[ptoss1]

There are some details I need to point out to debaters:
1.At the end when lelouch answered the phone, rolo was there, which shows that either:
1. Rolo didn't go with lelouch.
2. Rolo is a fake.
3. Lelouch set up the fake.
4. Rolo is real and nos that their is a fake lelouch.
5. Rolo set up the fake.
5. Rolo is lonely and has decided to kick out the real lelouch for a nice, caring, fake lelouch.
7. Rolo works for Brittania

[bladeofdarkness]

There are some details I need to point out to debaters:
1.At the end when lelouch answered the phone, rolo was there, which shows that either:
1. Rolo didn't go with lelouch.
2. Rolo is a fake.
3. Lelouch set up the fake.
4. Rolo is real and nos that their is a fake lelouch.
5. Rolo set up the fake.
5. Rolo is lonely and has decided to kick out the real lelouch for a nice, caring, fake lelouch.
7. Rolo works for Brittania


8. rolo has a vincent KMF with a float unit and can be in china in about 3 hours (and the fake is there to make sure britannia doesnt know that lulu is zero and rolo is helping keep the faceade )

[ptoss1]

you no wat
pointing a gun at a 5 year old girl is kinda evil
lelouch is not an anti-hero
lelouch WAS an anti-hero
now he's just 50% evil, 10% good, $0% retardedly stupid when it comes to making decisions
i mean, acting like he cares about his fake brother just to use him is EVIL
"hahahahaha, i am evil, i will use you like a rag, wiping my ass, because you little fake shit.....evil laugh"=evil
"i go now to save little sister in the middle of my final plan just because some green haired girl tells me my sis is stuck on an island and she just no's this because......uh.....i have no clue....but anyway, i love my sis, so now i go to fucking island to save her from.....uh....i have no clue....but anyway, my final plan that i have been working for for so long for like, my entire life because my sis is in danger of.....uh....no clue"=retarded and good

[ptoss1]

8. rolo has a vincent KMF with a float unit and can be in china in about 3 hours (and the fake is there to make sure britannia doesnt know that lulu is zero and rolo is helping keep the faceade )

are you fing serious!!!!!!!!!!!!!3 hrs

[bladeofdarkness]

are you fing serious!!!!!!!!!!!!!3 hrs

alright then six
the point is he can get there fast if needed

and while i whole heartedly agree with you on the holding a gun to a little girl's head part (i was shocked at that myself)
i do think he changed for the better on some level during this season (he doesnt see his troops as pawns at least)

[Aquaman OS]

8. rolo has a vincent KMF with a float unit and can be in china in about 3 hours (and the fake is there to make sure britannia doesnt know that lulu is zero and rolo is helping keep the faceade )

1. I doubt Rolo could fly all the way to Ashford to China undetected

2. I doubt the Vincent could make the trip without running out of power.

3. The battle is starting soon, he'll never make it.

Unless Lelouch has a secret way of getting Rolo there I don't think he'll be participating in the battle.

Not only that but Rolo seems like he'd be more of a hazard on a two sided battle rather than help. His Geass could harm the Order's side as well with him accidentally freezing his allies perhaps when they are in the line of fire. Rolo can't seem to control who he wants to freeze in the sphere. I always figured he'd be sent on solo missions.

[Orga777]

alright then six
the point is he can get there fast if needed

I don't think Rolo is going anywhere actually...<.< At least in my opinion.

and while i whole heartedly agree with you on the holding a gun to a little girl's head part (i was shocked at that myself)

Shocked? Really?:eyebrow:

rolo is gay

:heh: That made me laugh.

[ptoss1]

alright then six
the point is he can get there fast if needed

and while i whole heartedly agree with you on the holding a gun to a little girl's head part (i was shocked at that myself)
i do think he changed for the better on some level during this season (he doesnt see his troops as pawns at least)

but did he have to laugh
HE FING laughed
i actually liked suzaku better at the end of that episode
and i agree that he changed for the better, which is why i also have a feeling that he will revert back to his old self sometime in this season,
maybe because something happens to nunally
example: black knights accidentally kill nunnally

[KrimzonStriker]

you no wat
pointing a gun at a 5 year old girl is kinda evil
lelouch is not an anti-hero
lelouch WAS an anti-hero
now he's just 50% evil, 10% good, $0% retardedly stupid when it comes to making decisions
i mean, acting like he cares about his fake brother just to use him is EVIL
"hahahahaha, i am evil, i will use you like a rag, wiping my ass, because you little fake shit.....evil laugh"=evil
"i go now to save little sister in the middle of my final plan just because some green haired girl tells me my sis is stuck on an island and she just no's this because......uh.....i have no clue....but anyway, i love my sis, so now i go to fucking island to save her from.....uh....i have no clue....but anyway, my final plan that i have been working for for so long for like, my entire life because my sis is in danger of.....uh....no clue"=retarded and good


What? It's called bluffing, you use it in negotiations all the time, in Stage 4 Season 1 he took an entire crowd of Britannian civilians hostage with 'posion gas.' End result was it got Suzaku off or his false prison charges, screwed the pure bloods over, made Zero infamous, and nobody died to boot. Works for me, can we get over that already? :rolleyes:

Uhhh, I can't say I liked when he said he was going to throw Rolo away at the end of Turn 4 either, but at the same time Rolo was a cold-blooded assassin that's tried to kill him quite a few times as is, so I can't blame him for being a little pissed. In any case, things seem to be fine between those two and they came to a kind of understanding during Turn 9, so its all good >_>

Uhmmm, C.C has displayed having unconventional powers beforehand, so what makes it unbelievable for her to know something like that, and the kidnapping did really take place so I don't see why you have a problem with it on that score. At the same time his final plan was for Nunnally's sake, and I find it rather heartless of you to insist he abandon his blind, crippled, and innocent sister in order to take over the world :eyebrow:

[ptoss1]

I'm actually pretty convinced that nothing will come of it, one way or the other. There is too much 'background noise' in Code Geass to fit in a love story smack dab in the middle of so many diverging story-lines. Even if it were to happen in some fashion, it would probably come off pretty badly and would not be well done at all. Although, there does seem to be this emerging pattern where Kallen feels left out from the higher-up meetings between C.C. and Lelouch, even though such meetings do not concern romance so much as the ultimate purpose of what Lelouch is attempting to accomplish through his use of the Black Knights.

Id like to point out that CC kissed lelouch last season

[ptoss1]

What? It's called bluffing, you use it in negotiations all the time, in Stage 4 Season 1 he took an entire crowd of Britannian civilians hostage with 'posion gas.' End result was it got Suzaku off or his false prison charges, screwed the pure bloods over, made Zero infamous, and nobody died to boot. Works for me, can we get over that already? :rolleyes:

Uhhh, I can't say I liked when he said he was going to throw Rolo away at the end of Turn 4 either, but at the same time Rolo was a cold-blooded assassin that's tried to kill him quite a few times as is, so I can't blame him for being a little pissed. In any case, things seem to be fine between those two and they came to a kind of understanding during Turn 9, so its all good >_>

Uhmmm, C.C has displayed having unconventional powers beforehand, so what makes it unbelievable for her to know something like that, and the kidnapping did really take place so I don't see why you have a problem with it on that score. At the same time his final plan was for Nunnally's sake, and I find it rather heartless of you to insist he abandon his blind, crippled, and innocent sister in order to take over the world :eyebrow:

im just pointing out that lelouch isn't very good at prioritizing his goals
couldn't he rescue nunally after he conquers japan
i mean, then he would have something to bargain with with the empire
and it was pretty obvious that brittania kidnapped nunally
because who else would no her
if brittania kidnapped her, then it's pretty obvious they wanted something from lelouch
and how could lelouch rescue nunally, there might have been an ambush
as there surely would have been if he reached her

[KrimzonStriker]

but did he have to laugh
HE FING laughed
i actually liked suzaku better at the end of that episode
and i agree that he changed for the better, which is why i also have a feeling that he will revert back to his old self sometime in this season,
maybe because something happens to nunally
example: black knights accidentally kill nunnally

What? Laughing is cool, it relieves stress and makes intimidates the opposition especially if they don't think you'd actually do it... >_>

Suzaku did what exactly at the end of that episode for you to think he was better? Because last I looked he did next to nothing to warrant an opinion for him precisely because he did nothing really <_<

Uhh, okay, speculation is fine and all but there is no real weight behind it so forgive me if I don't really take that suggestion as seriously as you would like :p

im just pointing out that lelouch isn't very good at prioritizing his goals
couldn't he rescue nunally after he conquers japan
i mean, then he would have something to bargain with with the empire
and it was pretty obvious that brittania kidnapped nunally
because who else would no her
if brittania kidnapped her, then it's pretty obvious they wanted something from lelouch
and how could lelouch rescue nunally, there might have been an ambush
as there surely would have been if he reached her

So? Are we suddenly any better? He's human, I say give him a break, or would you have not done the same thing in his position? Would you have forsaken your own sister in this case? :eyebrow:

And for one thing he didn't know who kidnapped Nunnally to begin with so there was no real way to predict he could negotiate with them or follow their train of thought, thus there was no way he could predict Nunnally was actually completely safe while captured by V.V. Two, what makes you think Britannia wasn't in the stronger position in this case no matter what? He valued his sister above everything as you saw, so him having Japan is an inconsequential bargaining chip compared to what holding Nunnally meant... :rolleyes:

[Eliarine]

See what I usually mean with "Lelouch gets excuses for everything he does"? :rolleyes: Pointing a gun at a loli is okay because he's only bluffing. Using Rolo is okay because Rolo was a meanie. Laughing like a maniac doesn't mean anything either. :rolleyes: I'm curious, what's his excuse for geassing people into killing themselves? The Zero persona being different from Lelouch? You're taking away what makes Lelouch an interesting character. He's not an angel. He says so himself.

[KrimzonStriker]

See what I usually mean with "Lelouch gets excuses for everything he does"? :rolleyes: Pointing a gun at a loli is okay because he's only bluffing. Using Rolo is okay because Rolo was a meanie. Laughing like a maniac doesn't mean anything either. :rolleyes: I'm curious, what's his excuse for geassing people into killing themselves? The Zero persona being different from Lelouch? You're taking away what makes Lelouch an interesting character. He's not an angel. He says so himself.

Soooo? He's not a devil either... there are two sides to everything. And the excuse of making people kill themselves? Tactical advantage, no different from if he had shot them himself or something, only he didn't need too. Geass is a weapon for him to use if you will recall, and this is war after all... >_>

In regards to all those things, I say they were tactically acceptable and understandable concessions in order to achieve the necessary results, doesn't make them nice or easy to look at but neither good nor evil should really be factored in how you label him <_<

[orangejuicetang]

Also, Lelouch didn't plan out his rescue Nunually plan very well at all. I'm not even talking about the deserting the black knights scene. I mean, where he's on the island and one door away from where his sister potentially is with a confused potential enemy/ally aiming a gun at him and his devoted retainer/bodyguard/ace pilot there as well, his arguements, I think, could have been a lot better. At the very least, I thought that Lelouch should have at least been smart enough to make a different reply to Suzuku's question if he was trying to get his help with his Nunually rescue mission as opposed to his "forget what I did in the past, I need your help now" response. I mean, he was so close, and he screws up because of his not-very-thought-out response.

[KrimzonStriker]

Also, Lelouch didn't plan out his rescue Nunually plan very well at all. I'm not even talking about the deserting the black knights scene. I mean, where he's on the island and one door away from where his sister potentially is with a confused potential enemy/ally aiming a gun at him and his devoted retainer/bodyguard/ace pilot there as well, his arguements, I think, could have been a lot better. At the very least, I thought that Lelouch should have at least been smart enough to make a different reply to Suzuku's question if he was trying to get his help with his Nunually rescue mission as opposed to his "forget what I did in the past, I need your help now" response. I mean, he was so close, and he screws up because of his not-very-thought-out response.

Well, this is a good example of him just not liking to make up excuses in front of people, it was the same in Turn 5. I don't think he really had it in him to lie to Suzaku like that, and manipulate him into doing something he didn't want too or under false pretenses, especially over Euphie, and it was in keeping with his character to ignore the dead in order to rescue the living as was the case. I think if we can fault Lelouch for anything, it was just being honest about the situation to Suzaku >_>

[orangejuicetang]

However, in the situation Lelouch neither told Suzuku lies or the truth, he just sort of brushed off the question as if it was something that wasn't really that important. Hell, Suzuku might have helped him and not hate him so much if he explains how it was an accident instead of just telling him to "forget about it and help me now."

[Eliarine]

Soooo? He's not a devil either... there are two sides to everything. And the excuse of making people kill themselves? Tactical advantage, no different from if he had shot them himself or something, only he didn't need too. Geass is a weapon for him to use if you will recall, and this is war after all... >_>

In regards to all those things, I say they were tactically acceptable and understandable concessions in order to achieve the necessary results, doesn't make them nice or easy to look at but neither good nor evil should really be factored in how you label him <_<

I agree, Lelouch is neither an angel nor a devil. What I mean (again) is that he gets excuses where Suzaku would get death threats.

And you basically just proved me right.

[KrimzonStriker]

However, in the situation Lelouch neither told Suzuku lies or the truth, he just sort of brushed off the question as if it was something that wasn't really that important. Hell, Suzuku might have helped him and not hate him so much if he explains how it was an accident instead of just telling him to "forget about it and help me now."

Uhh, when I meant honest I meant honest with himself in this case, as in keeping with his character and basically just how he is <_<

And like I said, Lelouch just really doesn't seem like the type to make excuses for his actions. Euphie was his mistake, his responsibility, and he accepted the consequences of that and I don't think anything he could have said would have absolved him of that guilt. Any explanation would also just seem so... inadequate to really convey what happened, what he felt at that moment, and all the regret he probably has. :(

I agree, Lelouch is neither an angel nor a devil. What I mean (again) is that he gets excuses where Suzaku would get death threats.

And you basically just proved me right.

I defend Suzaku from time to time, I just tend not to agree with him more often then not :p

[Aquaman OS]

That's the whole point though. The Euphie massacre thing was a terrible terrible thing he did (Lelouch is probably going to hell for that alone) and pretty much screwed any chance of a 100% happy resolution to the storyline for everyone. In fact there can't be a complete happy end now because Euphie, one of the only completely good people and who didn't deserve that situation at all, is dead.

And Lelouch keeps brushing it off like it was nothing. It's not nothing, it was the most horrific incident in the show so far and it was almost completely his fault. So either come clean with it to everyone or pay for it already, but don't just keep pretending it didn't happen and sulking about it forever.

[KrimzonStriker]

That's the whole point though. The Euphie massacre thing was a terrible terrible thing he did (Lelouch is probably going to hell for that alone) and pretty much screwed any chance of a 100% happy resolution to the storyline for everyone. In fact there can't be a complete happy end now because Euphie, one of the only completely good people and who didn't deserve that situation at all, is dead.

And Lelouch keeps brushing it off like it was nothing. It's not nothing, it was the most horrific incident in the show so far and it was almost completely his fault. So either come clean with it to everyone or pay for it already, but don't just keep pretending it didn't happen and sulking about it forever.

When it's all said and done, it really was an accident in the end you know, despite what Lelouch might think and anyone else who was aware of the incident in question... And who'd want a 100% happy ending anyway? We just need it to end on a relatively good note when all the tears and blood have subsided, and give Lelouch his chance to make up for what happened with Euphie, create the world she wanted... >_>

How is keeping it to himself not him paying for his sins in a way? Coming clean wouldn't absolve anything, and it would only add the weight of this burden on everyone elses shoulders. Remember what Lelouch said while he morned over the whole massacre in Stage 22 'Don't make me carry this sin. Are you trying to place all the responsibility on me?' That was exactly what he did in the end, he took all the burden of the act onto himself, and constantly carries it with him to this day. And I wouldn't say he brushed it off, more like he didn't want to really make excuses for what happened, that he acknowledges that his sin could never be forgiven and that he would carry it like the Mark of Cain with him till the end in a sense. He doesn't pretend anything from this perspective, he acknowledges it most importantly to himself, and accepted all the consequences of it, as what happened during his conversation with Suzaku at the end of Stage 23 where he gave Suzaku his blessing to hate him for everything he'd done, to come at him with all he had, even to kill him, for Euphie. It is for Euphie that Lelouch makes no explanation where none could really suffice, no inane excuses to pass it off as less then what it was, that he once again inflicts all the burden upon himself and for him this is his way of atonement. He is paying for it, he makes himself pay for it, more then I think any of us can really know... <_<

[Chase]

When it's all said and done, it really was an accident in the end you know, despite what Lelouch might think and anyone else who was aware of the incident in question... And who'd want a 100% happy ending anyway? We just need it to end on a relatively good note when all the tears and blood have subsided, and give Lelouch his chance to make up for what happened with Euphie, create the world she wanted... >_>

How is keeping it to himself not him paying for his sins in a way? Coming clean wouldn't absolve anything, and it would only add the weight of this burden on everyone elses shoulders. Remember what Lelouch said while he morned over the whole massacre in Stage 22 'Don't make me carry this sin. Are you trying to place all the responsibility on me?' That was exactly what he did in the end, he took all the burden of the act onto himself, and constantly carries it with him to this day. And I wouldn't say he brushed it off, more like he didn't want to really make excuses for what happened, that he acknowledges that his sin could never be forgiven and that he would carry it like the Mark of Cain with him till the end in a sense. He doesn't pretend anything from this perspective, he acknowledges it most importantly to himself, and accepted all the consequences of it, as what happened during his conversation with Suzaku at the end of Stage 23 where he gave Suzaku his blessing to hate him for everything he'd done, to come at him with all he had, even to kill him, for Euphie. It is for Euphie that Lelouch makes no explanation where none could really suffice, no inane excuses to pass it off as less then what it was, that he once again inflicts all the burden upon himself and for him this is his way of atonement. He is paying for it, he makes himself pay for it, more then I think any of us can really know... <_<
It can never be considered an accident, he was using Geass. Anything that happens after using it is totally the users fault despite his intentions.

[m1thril]

When it's all said and done, it really was an accident in the end you know, despite what Lelouch might think and anyone else who was aware of the incident in question... And who'd want a 100% happy ending anyway? We just need it to end on a relatively good note when all the tears and blood have subsided, and give Lelouch his chance to make up for what happened with Euphie, create the world she wanted... >_>

How is keeping it to himself not him paying for his sins in a way? Coming clean wouldn't absolve anything, and it would only add the weight of this burden on everyone elses shoulders. Remember what Lelouch said while he morned over the whole massacre in Stage 22 'Don't make me carry this sin. Are you trying to place all the responsibility on me?' That was exactly what he did in the end, he took all the burden of the act onto himself, and constantly carries it with him to this day. And I wouldn't say he brushed it off, more like he didn't want to really make excuses for what happened, that he acknowledges that his sin could never be forgiven and that he would carry it like the Mark of Cain with him till the end in a sense. He doesn't pretend anything from this perspective, he acknowledges it most importantly to himself, and accepted all the consequences of it, as what happened during his conversation with Suzaku at the end of Stage 23 where he gave Suzaku his blessing to hate him for everything he'd done, to come at him with all he had, even to kill him, for Euphie. It is for Euphie that Lelouch makes no explanation where none could really suffice, no inane excuses to pass it off as less then what it was, that he once again inflicts all the burden upon himself and for him this is his way of atonement. He is paying for it, he makes himself pay for it, more then I think any of us can really know... <_<

i would disagree...he should at least say he was responsible for it (maybe not now but sometime in the future)...or else it would just be like me killing someone and then say "oh...i think i'll take responsibility for my murder by keeping it a secret"

[KrimzonStriker]

It can never be considered an accident, he was using Geass. Anything that happens after using it is totally the users fault despite his intentions.

He didn't use Geass though, he lost control of it (which wasn't even his fault on that score either since it was revealed the contact with the ruins in Turn 19 were what caused it) And isn't that what you usually call an accident when your intentions are not transitioned into your actions? And even an accident still can put the fault on his shoulders, not like he'd disagree with that accusation which was my point actually >_>

i would disagree...he should at least say he was responsible for it (maybe not now but sometime in the future)...or else it would just be like me killing someone and then say "oh...i think i'll take responsibility for my murder by keeping it a secret"

And I would disagree with that, saying means nothing in the end if there is no excuse, and doesn't transition into his atonement through his actions. He takes responsibility in his own way which isn't necessarily wrong or an incorrect direction and one I don't think you can suddenly condemn him for. For his sin, he made himself be the one to put down Euphie despite what it would do to him instead of giving it to someone else, for his sin he accepted all the hatred and spite his best friend had for him, for his sin he carried on in order to try and form a world that matched Euphie's dream. It tears him apart inside with guilt and you know it, and has always formed consequences for him in turn. To not spout any hollow words that do nothing in the end and just accept it head on speaks well of his character from my point of view, that he's willing to accept his sin and its consequences and not whine about it where it would do nothing in the end.

[Tokkan]

(which wasn't even his fault on that score either since it was revealed the contact with the ruins in Turn 19 were what caused it)

You mean Stage 19, right? Turns are R2 episodes, Stages are season 1 episodes.

[Chase]

He didn't use Geass though, he lost control of it (which wasn't even his fault on that score either since it was revealed the contact with the ruins in Turn 19 were what caused it) And isn't that what you usually call an accident when your intentions are not transitioned into your actions? And even an accident still can put the fault on his shoulders, not like he'd disagree with that accusation which was my point actually >_>
He did use Geass, maybe not willingly but he did. Once you accept something such as Geass like that, you have to take responsibility for what happens next even if its not something you intended.

[KrimzonStriker]

You mean Stage 19, right? Turns are R2 episodes, Stages are season 1 episodes.

Yeah, my bad. transitioning between all this is pretty hard :heh:

He did use Geass, maybe not willingly but he did. Once you accept something such as Geass like that, you have to take responsibility for what happens next even if its not something you intended.

And I claim that he does just that, claim responsibility. At the same time once again, this usually transitions into what you would still classify as an accident... not to say it still isn't his fault and he acknowledges that. At the same time I suppose you would have said 'No, I won't take this power and let myself be killed in the process'... >_>

[UltimateClash]

He did use Geass, maybe not willingly but he did. Once you accept something such as Geass like that, you have to take responsibility for what happens next even if its not something you intended.


Not quite. A good equation would be someone being charged for murder and someone being charged for negligence causing death. In both cases, a single person was responsible for the death of another, but only one of them was intended.

[KrimzonStriker]

Not quite. A good equation would be someone being charged for murder and someone being charged for negligence causing death. In both cases, a single person was responsible for the death of another, but only one of them was intended.

Hence why it can still be classified as an 'accident' was my point... >_>

[Chase]

Not quite. A good equation would be someone being charged for murder and someone being charged for negligence causing death. In both cases, a single person was responsible for the death of another, but only one of them was intended.
Its not even about that, were talking about a person who's been given a power to control minds and in a way told their could be consequences for using it. May not been given the instruction manual on what could happen, but giving enough to draw a real conclusion.

[KrimzonStriker]

Its not even about that, were talking about a person who's been giving a power to control minds and in a way told their could be consequences for using it. May not was giving the instruction manual on what could happen, but giving enough to draw a real conclusion.

As far as I recall the consequences that he was told of were that he would be isolated or something like that. A lot to draw conclusions toward that direction I suppose, at the same time I'm sure you would have turned the power down in the face of being gunned down in the ghetto back in Stage 1. And BTW, negligence can still fall under that category of say of an expert crane operator messing up at the controls, the main point between that though is still the presence of intention behind of the action :rolleyes:

Bottom line is, it being an 'accident' does not mean he wasn't still at fault or it wasn't his responsibility, I'm simply pointing out that it was by no means solely his fault, nor was it not beyond the boundaries of being understood, or once again within his intention, hence the word 'accident' which I don't see why you have such a problem agreeing with the term considering it doesn't suddenly contradict your claims, it basically is your claims... >_>

[UltimateClash]

Hence why it can still be classified as an 'accident' was my point... >_>

Hey, I'm agreeing with you...... :eyebrow:


Its not even about that, were talking about a person who's been given a power to control minds and in a way told their could be consequences for using it. May not been given the instruction manual on what could happen, but giving enough to draw a real conclusion.



Yes, consequences IF he uses it improperly....BUT he didn't use it. It acted of it's own accord, or at a level to which he had no control over.

[KrimzonStriker]

Hey, I'm agreeing with you...... :eyebrow:

Which I thank you for and tried to help elaborate on :p

Now if only we could get this point across to chase... <_<

[Chase]

Which I thank you for and tried to help elaborate on :p

Now if only we could get this point across to chase... <_<
Never:frustrated: Oh well, agree to disagree:)

[KrimzonStriker]

Never:frustrated: Oh well, agree to disagree:)

How so, we basically agree on the same thing, just not on the term. Intention is still the main divergence between an calling this an accident or calling it murder on Lelouch's part, either way though we agree that there was no intention or that he wasn't still responsible. If I make a mistake, even if it wasn't my intention to do so, or if I cause an accident that doesn't mean I'm still not liable or something, it just means I didn't intend for it to happen and that's what differentiates the event with Euphie into the category of 'accident' >_>

[m1thril]

And I would disagree with that, saying means nothing in the end if there is no excuse, and doesn't transition into his atonement through his actions. He takes responsibility in his own way which isn't necessarily wrong or an incorrect direction and one I don't think you can suddenly condemn him for. For his sin, he made himself be the one to put down Euphie despite what it would do to him instead of giving it to someone else, for his sin he accepted all the hatred and spite his best friend had for him, for his sin he carried on in order to try and form a world that matched Euphie's dream. It tears him apart inside with guilt and you know it, and has always formed consequences for him in turn. To not spout any hollow words that do nothing in the end and just accept it head on speaks well of his character from my point of view, that he's willing to accept his sin and its consequences and not whine about it where it would do nothing in the end.

I don't think I'm getting my point across...I'm saying that at some point later on LL should confess about what happened in order to clear Euphie's name. Otherwise he is just not taking full responsibility. Accepting his sin is good and dandy, but smearing Euphie's rep and not trying to clear it later on is very messed up imo.

[Vinak]

Lelouch can't confess what he's done to anybody for a very simple reason. he would be blamed for the deaths of thousands of Japanese people. The Black Knights would think he has tricked them from the very beginning and would kill him. He has no choice to go with the lie he has created.

[Crisis7]

Ok Lelouch was pretty careless. He just told Suzaku that Euphie's death is just the past and should just forget about it and calls him a patricide, then asks him to help him.

Don't you think that that was a pretty dumb thing to do?

Now lets reverse it.

Let say that Suzaku killed Nunally. And when Lelouch confronts him and Suzaku tells him that Nunally' death is just the past and should just forget about it and calls him a fraticide(brother killer- killed Clovis), then tells Lelouch to help him.

Don't you think that's a pretty dumb thing to say to a person who's got a gun pointed at you either way?

If Lelouch wasn't so callous and careless I think Suzaku might have helped him and thinks would have turned out much differently.

[bladeofdarkness]

the whole point of the ending of ep 22 of season 1 was that everything goes to hell
Lelouch came to the zone in order to make euphie shoot him (he was pretty despert at that point since forming the zone takes away the whole point of the OOBK)
then euphie talks him in to going her way
she actually talks the magnificent basterd anti-hero terrorist to change his ways and advocate peace
and he wants to go along with it and even admits defeat
and just when it looks like everything might have a happy ending it all goes to hell
the same power that he had been using to wage war now uses him to destroy any hope of peace
he tried to stop from doing it
and once he realized what he did he was shocked
when he ordered that the order will attack and euphie is to be killed he actually was crying (look it up)
it was the biggest show of emotion on Lelouch's part in the whole show
and his later talk's with cc made it clear just how much it effected him
latter on he basiclly just said that there is no turning back now so he might as well win at all cost
but it doesnt make him evil or beyond hope

[Ice_Bullet]

Ok Lelouch was pretty careless. He just told Suzaku that Euphie's death is just the past and should just forget about it and calls him a patricide, then asks him to help him.

Don't you think that that was a pretty dumb thing to do?

Now lets reverse it.

Let say that Suzaku killed Nunally. And when Lelouch confronts him and Suzaku tells him that Nunally' death is just the past and should just forget about it and calls him a fraticide(brother killer- killed Clovis), then tells Lelouch to help him.

Don't you think that's a pretty dumb thing to say to a person who's got a gun pointed at you either way?

If Lelouch wasn't so callous and careless I think Suzaku might have helped him and thinks would have turned out much differently.

you can't blame lelouch for losing control of his geass. he didn't want it to happen. but however, he can be blamed that he didn't take precaution after see what happened to mao. so its still an on going debate if lelouch is at fault or not.

it is a pretty dumb thing to say. i have to agree. but lelouch was trying to reason with suzaku. he is trying to put nunnally as priority first. he would accept the euphie blame later. but suzaku didn't care. he just wanted to take lelouch down.

[m1thril]

Lelouch can't confess what he's done to anybody for a very simple reason. he would be blamed for the deaths of thousands of Japanese people. The Black Knights would think he has tricked them from the very beginning and would kill him. He has no choice to go with the lie he has created.

true that's why i said he should confess at some point later on. confessing now would make things messy o.0 and technically he was tricking them from the beginning. also,i i highly doubt that the black knights would kill him since there would be no one capable of doing the things LL does(except for maybe the 2nd prince who is their enemy and now apparently the chinese dude)


it is a pretty dumb thing to say. i have to agree. but lelouch was trying to reason with suzaku. he is trying to put nunnally as priority first. he would accept the euphie blame later. but suzaku didn't care. he just wanted to take lelouch down.

too bad his reasonings turned out to be an epic fail :/
also i don't think that suzaku didn't care, but rather the things LL said ticked him off even more, i may have to re-watch that part

[ZeroSama]

Loved the episode in general and loved they way Zero went after Kallen not because i'm a Kalulu fan but because to me the greatest threat to Zero isn't Britannia but the general lack of trust between Zero and the Order because of his abandonment of them in Ep 25 of season 1.

Since then the OoTBK will still follow him as long as he advances there goals however he no longer has that almost messanic adulation that he enjoyed in the first season. Even Minami commented in Ep5 of R2 "is it okay to follow Zero if he only views us as pawns?" Hell Todou most likely wanted to get Oughi's help in EP 8 to oust Zero as leader if his goals didn't benefit the Japanese.

However his actions in this episode reassure them(even unintentionally) that he does care and doesn't just view them as faceless pawns. If he had abandoned Kallen the rumblings of discontent would have intensified and could well have resulted in him being toppled. Hell all the named characters(except Diethard) were woriried about her and lets be honest there the only ones that matter in anime the rest are just there to make up the numbers. Look at there responses after he ignores Diethards advice Minami and Oughi are suprised but at the same time happy.

While his actions here may not have won them over completely if he manages a miracle recovery next episode i defintely see some of the cracks between Zero and the OoTBK being filled in and the probability of betrayl greatly reduced.

[canis]

true that's why i said he should confess at some point later on. confessing now would make things messy o.0 and technically he was tricking them from the beginning. also,i i highly doubt that the black knights would kill him since there would be no one capable of doing the things LL does(except for maybe the 2nd prince who is their enemy and now apparently the chinese dude)



too bad his reasonings turned out to be an epic fail :/
also i don't think that suzaku didn't care, but rather the things LL said ticked him off even more, i may have to re-watch that part

I think Lelouch lost his patience and tried to solve the situation as quick as possible... When he tried to lie to Suzaku about Euphie ("After all she's done you still...") and he knew about the Geass it went to hell...
I think he underestimated Suzaku's hate for Zero. I'm not sure he'd gotten out of it if Lelouche had put it out in the open then...

And I doubt that Lelouche can confess about Euphie anytime soon... Even Kallen would have a hard time swallowing it. Don't get me wrong I think their resolve to free Japan is big enough and they would continue on their path, but the dissent among them would decrease their performance.

Lelouche is definitely responsible for what happened since he experienced firsthand what could happen when the Geass evolves when Mao targeted him.
Not to mention the lecture C.C. gave him.
You don't take firearms lightly and the Geass is a weapon on an entirely different scale... The whole matter of using it for his advantage is haunting him I think, and it could backfire on him... But I have to commend him on his quick thinking (even if the decision was cold-hearted).

[bladeofdarkness]

Loved the episode in general and loved they way Zero went after Kallen not because i'm a Kalulu fan but because to me the greatest threat to Zero isn't Britannia but the general lack of trust between Zero and the Order because of his abandonment of them in Ep 25 of season 1.

Since then the OoTBK will still follow him as long as he advances there goals however he no longer has that almost messanic adulation that he enjoyed in the first season. Even Minami commented in Ep5 of R2 "is it okay to follow Zero if he only views us as pawns?" Hell Todou most likely wanted to get Oughi's help in EP 8 to oust Zero as leader if his goals didn't benefit the Japanese.

However his actions in this episode reassure them(even unintentionally) that he does care and doesn't just view them as faceless pawns. If he had abandoned Kallen the rumblings of discontent would have intensified and could well have resulted in him being toppled. Hell all the named characters(except Diethard) were woriried about her and lets be honest there the only ones that matter in anime the rest are just there to make up the numbers. Look at there responses after he ignores Diethards advice Minami and Oughi are suprised but at the same time happy.

While his actions here may not have won them over completely if he manages a miracle recovery next episode i defintely see some of the cracks between Zero and the OoTBK being filled in and the probability of betrayl greatly reduced.


my guess is next ep lulu will be facing a choice of either going after kallen or going on with the plan

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

my guess is next ep lulu will be facing a choice of either going after kallen or going on with the plan

Err, isn't that in essence the same choice he was facing this episode? :rolleyes:
The choice has, as I see it, already been made, but once again, an unknown factor/unexpected events could be very likely to screw up things for him again. I think that as long as it's within the realm of possibility, he'll go for saving Kallen...

[ZeroSama]

Not really. The 2 of them are not mutatually exclusive. If he gets Xinge Ke on his side because of something empress Loli says and Todou and the 2 remaining members of the Shineiken(Sp?) are there thats the KOTOR checked. Also C.C. seems to take the field and the purple gloves from the episode preview could mean Villieta goes out as well plus he still has the 3 ace bridge bunnies and loads of Gekkas. Plus i can see Suzaku getting his ass handed to him by Lulu in the Mirage:D. He has plenty of manpower to do both at the same at time.

[ZeroSama]

Oh and sorry for the double post but i thought when Xinge Ke said that "it was only 40% of its power" he was refering to the output of the Shen Hu's cannon that he had just used to nerf the advance guard in front of the Ikargu.

[Tokkan]

Oh and sorry for the double post

*points to the edit button* That has a use.

[bladeofdarkness]

Not really. The 2 of them are not mutatually exclusive. If he gets Xinge Ke on his side because of something empress Loli says and Todou and the 2 remaining members of the Shineiken(Sp?) are there thats the KOTOR checked. Also C.C. seems to take the field and the purple gloves from the episode preview could mean Villieta goes out as well plus he still has the 3 ace bridge bunnies and loads of Gekkas. Plus i can see Suzaku getting his ass handed to him by Lulu in the Mirage:D. He has plenty of manpower to do both at the same at time.


the new models are called akatsuki not gekka
and from what i heard the shinkiro is a command and control unit and not really a combat one
plus its clear that the eunice's army is massive in size and the avalon might have other units on it as well

and Suzaku getting his ass handed to him by Lulu in the Mirage is not going to happen
i would love :D to see it but its just not happening (Suzaku has a clous in his contract about not losing battles)

[ZeroSama]

I said earlier that i thought that the druid system's massive processing power could be used for a combat A.I. to make up for Lulu's average piloting skills. The druid system on the Ikaragu could be used to correlate the data and realy it to him.

It would also explain why the mirage does not have a typical control system with Lulu entering commands(i.e. proceed to a specific point and begin artillery fire) with the keyboard and the A.I. doing the rest(i.e. dodging and aiming).

I thought the purple units were the Akatsuki's while the green ones were mass produced Gekka's?

[bladeofdarkness]

I thought the purple units were the Akatsuki's while the green ones were mass produced Gekka's?

all are akatsuki
the purple ones are the suped up models for the Shineiken's (cant rememeber the unit names) but they are all named akatsuki (its an upgraded gekka)

and the mirage has the druid system that was on the gawin
and CC was piloting that one so its not like the druid system does it

[ZeroSama]

Ah but the Mirage is a single seater so no C.C. to help out with piloting:uhoh:.

Also the druid system is just a cpu with a massive amount of proccessing power ,it was intended to correlate massive amounts of tactical data but they also tried to use it analyse the ruins in Ep 19 so its not inflexible and could run an A.I.

Because of Lulu's average skills and the Druid system on the Ikaragu anything that gives him a boost in direct comabt ability is a massive plus since i can't see it being very fast(unless its a god mech like the Lancelot which would be fair i suppose) even with the float so enemies will get close to it and no matter how heavy the armor and shields a point blank hit from a Hadron will hurt.

Also thanks for the info about the mechs i just assumed that they had the same name.

[bladeofdarkness]

Ah but the Mirage is a single seater so no C.C. to help out with piloting:uhoh:.

Also the druid system is just a cpu with a massive amount of proccessing power ,it was intended to correlate massive amounts of tactical data but they also tried to use it analyse the ruins in Ep 19 so its not inflexible and could run an A.I.

Because of Lulu's average skills and the Druid system on the Ikaragu anything that gives him a boost in direct comabt ability is a massive plus since i can't see it being very fast(unless its a god mech like the Lancelot which would be fair i suppose) even with the float so enemies will get close to it and no matter how heavy the armor and shields a point blank hit from a Hadron will hurt.

Also thanks for the info about the mechs i just assumed that they had the same name.


your welcome about the names

and just one thing about the armor
while we dont yet know what they mean by fortress class defanse i think its likly very powerfull (it sound powerfull)

[ZeroSama]

It would ruin the excitement though if it was a truly fortress that was invulnerable or almost impossible to damage though(and usually these are the type's of mech's i least like in anime, god how i hated the Virtue and now Mordred).

Also the Siegfried was classed as a Giga fortress yet it was bloody fast and agile more so than we've seen from the Mordred anyway. Hopefully the Mirage will be a god mech as i said with speed, agility, strength, defense and offense superior to the Lancelot's but brought down by Lulu's skills since he needs 1 to even everything out between the 2 of them now because:-

Lulu
1.Brains.
2.Great strategist(brains don't mean your a good strategist look at Llyod and Nina).
3.Supernatural power-Geass.
4.Largish army.
5.Non-god mech(so far).

Suzaku
1.Athleticism.
2.Great fighter(unarmed or in mech).
3.Supernatural power-inhuman reflexes.
4.Large army(as a KOTOR he can ignore orders given to him (Schenziel said in Ep3 that there was nothing he could do as he was under his Majesties command)and speak with emperor's authority(he was in charge of events in EP8)).
5.Uber hax God mech.

[iBeast]

Lelouch: "Has the heavens given him both gifts!?!?"

I love the quotes in Code Geass.

[bladeofdarkness]

i have an interesting question
what exactly makes everyone think that the KOR are nice people

after all it is an order of knights who work for the emperor directly (the emperor is an absolute basterd in just about everyway)

and from what we have seen so far suzaku got into the order becouse the emp liked the fact that he was willing to sell out his best friend for it

other then that you have anya who dispite being 14 years old doesnt even flinch at the idea of killing someone on the battle-field (she actually looks bored)

and gino who dispite saying that he doesnt like picking on the weak killed senba in a sneak attack and was ready and waiting to start fireing at the crowd in ep 8 only saying that they cant be the ones who fire first

they all have character traits that make them more then just faceless enemys (gino's behavior around suzaku and his thing for kallen . anya's behavior in general and the photo snaping thing) but for all we know they could have as dark a history as suzaku's

they maybe likeble characters but that doesnt mean they are nice people and just like suzaku is able to pull some very dirty tricks (end of ep 5) they might be just as bad when they want to be

[ZeroSama]

Well i know Gino's not nice anyway. He lost points big time with me in EP8 with his little "and then we'll have the wonderful pretext to purge them all". Die Gino, Die.

Also i think/hope next EP Anya will shoot her Quad Hadron cannon and at the last second alter her aim a little hitting the Tristan and vaporizing that shit Gino and then join Lulu. Hell she hasn't killed a member of the OotBK yet(although it was damn close with Chiba) so they've got no grudge against her yet.

[demon_god04]

Well it was Rohmeiyer or whatever her name's plan and not Gino's. Looking at it from the Britannian perspective it was a good way to get rid of a huge number of possible terrorists since they are conviently gathered in one place.

[Terrestrial Dream]

i have an interesting question
what exactly makes everyone think that the KOR are nice people

after all it is an order of knights who work for the emperor directly (the emperor is an absolute basterd in just about everyway)

and from what we have seen so far suzaku got into the order becouse the emp liked the fact that he was willing to sell out his best friend for it

other then that you have anya who dispite being 14 years old doesnt even flinch at the idea of killing someone on the battle-field (she actually looks bored)

and gino who dispite saying that he doesnt like picking on the weak killed senba in a sneak attack and was ready and waiting to start fireing at the crowd in ep 8 only saying that they cant be the ones who fire first

they all have character traits that make them more then just faceless enemys (gino's behavior around suzaku and his thing for kallen . anya's behavior in general and the photo snaping thing) but for all we know they could have as dark a history as suzaku's

they maybe likeble characters but that doesnt mean they are nice people and just like suzaku is able to pull some very dirty tricks (end of ep 5) they might be just as bad when they want to be Well I don't know about everyone thinking Rounds are nice but it is understandable why people like them. To some people they are pretty cool as they are elite knight amongst the elite. I suppose fan boys likes Anya and fan girls like Gino. We still don't know lot about the Rounds, for all we know Anya was some kind of child soldiers, a possibility that is supported greatly by this episode with picture of young Lelouch. So I guessing some of them probably tragic past instead of dark one. Still Gino's personality seems to be nice when he is civilian and he is a knight, whose duty is to fight and kill enemy if it is necessary.

[bladeofdarkness]

Well I don't know about everyone thinking Rounds are nice but it is understandable why people like them. To some people they are pretty cool as they are elite knight amongst the elite. I suppose fan boys likes Anya and fan girls like Gino. We still don't know lot about the Rounds, for all we know Anya was some kind of child soldiers, a possibility that is supported greatly by this episode with picture of young Lelouch. So I guessing some of them probably tragic past instead of dark one. Still Gino's personality seems to be nice when he is civilian and he is a knight, whose duty is to fight and kill enemy if it is necessary.

about anya i agree that she might have been a soldier for a long time even as a child (rolo was)
about gino being a knight
the diffrence between a any fighter and a knight is simple one
a knight serves a lord
who does gino serve : the emperor

[Terrestrial Dream]

about anya i agree that she might have been a soldier for a long time even as a child (rolo was)
about gino being a knight
the diffrence between a any fighter and a knight is simple one
a knight serves a lord
who does gino serve : the emperor And? So what if Gino serves the emperor? His personality won't change just because he serves the emperor.

[KrimzonStriker]

about anya i agree that she might have been a soldier for a long time even as a child (rolo was)
about gino being a knight
the diffrence between a any fighter and a knight is simple one
a knight serves a lord
who does gino serve : the emperor

At the same time you have to consider Gino's personality, he grew up as a sheltered noble when he was young, so he was pampered and spoiled for the most part and really has no idea really about how the outside world works or just takes everything for granted for the most part, basically like its a great big game to him you can say. Still, the sneaker novel pointed to some interesting wisdom on his part, because he was able to recognize that Suzaku had lost something dear to him at one point and on how he thinks the weak should be the ones to have a position like the KoR's apparently because the weak can make excuses to comfort themselves on the things that they've done on the battlefield versus a strong person who would eventually breakdown from it.

[bladeofdarkness]

i just rewatched ep 18 and i noticed something
turns out that when the avalon shows up at the end and starts blasting its not really the avalon shooting
its the gawin
could it be that it doesnt have a harudon cannon
if so then the knights have a big lead on that regard

[KrimzonStriker]

i just rewatched ep 18 and i noticed something
turns out that when the avalon shows up at the end and starts blasting its not really the avalon shooting
its the gawin
could it be that it doesnt have a harudon cannon
if so then the knights have a big lead on that regard

Well, technically the Hadron Cannons used by Ikaruga is from Gawain as well :heh:

[bladeofdarkness]

Well, technically the Hadron Cannons used by Ikaruga is from Gawain as well :heh:

yes
and thats why i said that the avalon might not have a Hadron Cannon
now that they lost the gawin

[iBeast]

i have an interesting question
what exactly makes everyone think that the KOR are nice people

after all it is an order of knights who work for the emperor directly (the emperor is an absolute basterd in just about everyway)

and from what we have seen so far suzaku got into the order becouse the emp liked the fact that he was willing to sell out his best friend for it

other then that you have anya who dispite being 14 years old doesnt even flinch at the idea of killing someone on the battle-field (she actually looks bored)

and gino who dispite saying that he doesnt like picking on the weak killed senba in a sneak attack and was ready and waiting to start fireing at the crowd in ep 8 only saying that they cant be the ones who fire first

they all have character traits that make them more then just faceless enemys (gino's behavior around suzaku and his thing for kallen . anya's behavior in general and the photo snaping thing) but for all we know they could have as dark a history as suzaku's

they maybe likeble characters but that doesnt mean they are nice people and just like suzaku is able to pull some very dirty tricks (end of ep 5) they might be just as bad when they want to be


Who thinks that? As far as Im concerned, Lulu is the main character and if they are against him, then they are the enemy. To say and use the word "nice" is just so....weakish.

[Orga777]

i just rewatched ep 18 and i noticed something
turns out that when the avalon shows up at the end and starts blasting its not really the avalon shooting
its the gawin
could it be that it doesnt have a harudon cannon
if so then the knights have a big lead on that regard

But weren't the Hadron Cannon's on the Gawain not completed? Didn't Lelouch say that when he stole it and the cannons weren't working properly?:confused:

[KrimzonStriker]

But weren't the Hadron Cannon's on the Gawain not completed? Didn't Lelouch say that when he stole it and the cannons weren't working properly?:confused:

Uhh, Larkshata fixed that problem in Stage 20 if you will recall... >_>

[Orga777]

Uhh, Larkshata fixed that problem in Stage 20 if you will recall... >_>

Yes, but my reply was to this:

just rewatched ep 18 and i noticed something
turns out that when the avalon shows up at the end and starts blasting its not really the avalon shooting
its the gawin
could it be that it doesnt have a harudon cannon
if so then the knights have a big lead on that regard
-Uchiha_Hai

Since she didn't fix it till after that is what I am confused about.
Which is why I asked...<.<'

[KrimzonStriker]

Yes, but my reply was to this:

just rewatched ep 18 and i noticed something
turns out that when the avalon shows up at the end and starts blasting its not really the avalon shooting
its the gawin
could it be that it doesnt have a harudon cannon
if so then the knights have a big lead on that regard
-Uchiha_Hai

Since she didn't fix it till after that is what I am confused about.
Which is why I asked...<.<'

It could still fire, just in incomplete and unfocused bursts basically, kind of like really spread out shotgun in a sense, which makes it pretty hard to hit people considering that the beams go off in random directions and the reason why Suzaku managed to dodge them after getting the live Geass and before V.V teleported them all off :p

[Orga777]

It could still fire, just in incomplete and unfocused bursts basically, kind of like really spread out shotgun in a sense, which makes it pretty hard to hit people considering that the beams go off in random directions and the reason why Suzaku managed to dodge them after getting the live Geass and before V.V teleported them all off :p

Well, after re-checking the scene, yeah you are right. I never noticed that it came out like that. I thought the Avalon had its own cannons and the blasts came out normally. Heh...

[blitz1/2]

Well i know Gino's not nice anyway. He lost points big time with me in EP8 with his little "and then we'll have the wonderful pretext to purge them all". Die Gino, Die.

Also i think/hope next EP Anya will shoot her Quad Hadron cannon and at the last second alter her aim a little hitting the Tristan and vaporizing that shit Gino and then join Lulu. Hell she hasn't killed a member of the OotBK yet(although it was damn close with Chiba) so they've got no grudge against her yet.

No, just no. Keep Anya with the Brits, we don't need to add another member to Lulu's massive loli/girl harem.

And Britannians need at least 1 long range heavy assault Frame.

I think the Shen Hu on the Chinese side is not unbalanced at all but rather to help balance the scales. The Gun-Rus were just too weak, so yea Shen Hu is needed.

[geewhiz]

I think the Shen Hu on the Chinese side is not unbalanced at all but rather to help balance the scales. The Gun-Rus were just too weak, so yea Shen Hu is needed. Things seem rather balanced, actually. The Federation's got Li in his Shenhu, the OoBKs've got Todou, two Holy Swords, Zero's new command ship (and hopefully soon again the Gurren), and Brittannia has three [actively participatory] Rounds and Schneizel's command ship.

That spells balance in my dictionary!:D

[Ruezu]

Things seem rather balanced, actually. The Federation's got Li in his Shenhu, the OoBKs've got Todou, two Holy Swords, Zero's new command ship (and hopefully soon again the Gurren), and Brittannia has three [actively participatory] Rounds and Schneizel's command ship.

That spells balance in my dictionary!:D

erm if they were all at 100%, it'd be balanced.

Shenhu is in perfect condition but Li's almost out of it.
OoBKs's condition isn't that good after the battling with Shenhu and the CF.
And the Rounds are in perfect condition at the moment...

Maybe Shenhu + OoBKs = Rounds ....Balance...

[m1thril]

im going to guess that's what's going to happen. Li will probably join the OoBK since the CF seems to be intent on killing him atm.

[geewhiz]

im going to guess that's what's going to happen. Li will probably join the OoBK since the CF seems to be intent on killing him atm.

atm, tho. Keep that in mind. Li's got Shenhu, Zero's got Tianzi, CF's got three rounds. A Li-Zero alliance will likely be only as brief as the events in Turn 11.

[blitz1/2]

atm, tho. Keep that in mind. Li's got Shenhu, Zero's got Tianzi, CF's got three rounds. A Li-Zero alliance will likely be only as brief as the events in Turn 11.

Yea, however I am sure Xing ke will only ally until he retakes the Tian Zi.

Things seem rather balanced, actually. The Federation's got Li in his Shenhu, the OoBKs've got Todou, two Holy Swords, Zero's new command ship (and hopefully soon again the Gurren), and Brittannia has three [actively participatory] Rounds and Schneizel's command ship.

That spells balance in my dictionary!:D

You would be surprised in how many RTS games are unbalanced today. :heh:


Also, the Order's grunt is superior compared to Britannia because of their tech. (damn, Lloyd work harder!)

Keep it a 3-way war. 2 way (we have seen too many)

[geewhiz]

Yea, however I am sure Xing ke will only ally until he retakes the Tian Zi.

...which is precisely why Zero's smart enough to hold out on giving the Tianzi back to Li until each party is assured a separate escape from the situation.

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

Why does Zero needs to kidnap Tian Zi if the Eunach Generals are the one in charge. He should've of geass those dumb old no balls generals to control the chinese army.

[blitz1/2]

Why does Zero needs to kidnap Tian Zi if the Eunach Generals are the one in charge. He should've of geass those dumb old no balls generals to control the chinese army.

He would have, if he had won the chess game. He already geassed one Eunich, why not geass teh rest.

...which is precisely why Zero's smart enough to hold out on giving the Tianzi back to Li until each party is assured a separate escape from the situation.

xing Ke is excellent in hand to hand combat, so he would most likely free Tian Zi by force. And no, Lulu wants to keep Tian Zi (will never give her back) because Tian Zi is an important political figure, Lulu needs it to control the Chinese.

[geewhiz]

xing Ke is excellent in hand to hand combat, so he would most likely free Tian Zi by force. And no, Lulu wants to keep Tian Zi (will never give her back) because Tian Zi is an important political figure, Lulu needs it to control the Chinese. Which means Zero's going to have to find a way to outsmart Li in order to double-cross him and keep Tianzi. What we know is that Turn 11's likely to start with Zero opening a comm channel with Li. And some extremely temporary bargain/deal will be struck. We know furthermore that Zero will somehow weasel himself out of this situation, but we won't know how or at what cost until Sunday.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Which means Zero's going to have to find a way to outsmart Li in order to double-cross him and keep Tianzi. What we know is that Turn 11's likely to start with Zero opening a comm channel with Li. And some extremely temporary bargain/deal will be struck. We know furthermore that Zero will somehow weasel himself out of this situation, but we won't know how or at what cost until Sunday.

It's simple, really; Li might hate Zero right now, but he hate the Eunuchs more.

Li would do what must be done. As long as Lulu give him a good deal, it would work out.

[bladeofdarkness]

lulu has tian zi
and li has kallen
both have an interest in not having the other one lose to the brits

[geewhiz]

and li has kallen Does she? It looked like she'd been in Brittanian hands at this point....

[demon_god04]

The Gurren is tied up in the pyramid command ship thing.

[wingdarkness]

Superlate I know :rolleyes:...

Thank my full Windows Corruption for that...Had to reinstall EVERYTHING...Lost most of my web-links, ftp's, ircbot pgs, etc., so-on so-forth, T_T....Ugh...

Enuff about me (As if that's possible^^)...This ep was just what I was waiting for...No million-man march with unbelievable tailor bills or doubletake checkmate calls, just pure drama and action jalepeno spiced with some nice mental strategy...Yeah there was a clear GSD sensibility to this ep with the whole "Who do I root for? Who's the antagonist? Who's the protag?" But ep 28 of GSD was one of my favorites and here I got some similiar chills...The ep did end on a pretty huge WTF moment (Twolu not Lulu?? o_O), but overall I was highly entertained with the battle and flow of this episode...So I gave it a 9, sue me...

[bladeofdarkness]

did you notice that xing-ke's assistent who was at the command post was tied up
whats up with that (she is surrounded by cf soldiers so why tie her up)

[Chase]

did you notice that xing-ke's assistent who was at the command post was tied up
whats up with that (she is surrounded by cf soldiers so why tie her up)
Looks to be a situation of them worrying about her escaping even with them having guns, likely high in combat skills.:)

[blitz1/2]

did you notice that xing-ke's assistent who was at the command post was tied up
whats up with that (she is surrounded by cf soldiers so why tie her up)

In preparation of some other "things", they have to practice bondage. :heh:

[orangejuicetang]

In preparation of some other "things", they have to practice bondage.
Lol. That would be, um... "interesting". Or perhaps not.

[weirdo487]

Why does Zero needs to kidnap Tian Zi if the Eunach Generals are the one in charge. He should've of geass those dumb old no balls generals to control the chinese army.

to make a point,
if Lulu uses Geass on the eunach generals (or any one else of note for that matter) at this point in time, he is pretty much telling suzaku "hello I've recovered my memories and am now back playing zero." which would get him caught in no time at all, killing the eunach generals would have been a better move since he has Tian Zi under his control and she has the power to apoint generals (at least she would if the current ones were dead)
thats just my take on it though

[blewin]

can somebody explain please, how can Lulu be in two places at once?? at the school and with the Black Knight forces? I'm confused..

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

can somebody explain please, how can Lulu be in two places at once?? at the school and with the Black Knight forces? I'm confused..

One is fake, obviously.

[blewin]

yeah, I guessed as much. But Rolo was clearly in the room there, I wonder who else is the ally here... besides the blue haired lady.

[aurr]

Could it be that in the time when the second lulu appeared, actually a few days happened and he is back at Japan?

[Anh_Minh]

Unlikely. I mean, then, where would the suspense be?

Besides, the student council apparently was in that room, waiting for news, waiting to hear from Milly, as the events of Tianzi's wedding unfolded. "Lelouch" must have been there all along.

So, hm, some guy geassed to disguise as him? Some heavily disguised Viletta? Lelouch second heretofore unheard of brother (and this time it's an identical twin!)?

[geewhiz]

The general agreement as far as I know is

that it is Sayoko.

[Inferno Phoenyx]

The general agreement as far as I know is

that it is Sayoko.

That's creepy, I wonder how they made her sound like Lelouch... :confused:

[demon_god04]

I wonder how they hid her breasts, I mean hers were not exactly small. :heh:

[ZeroSama]

Rolo used a voice distorter in Ep 4 to make himself sound like that Lord Kimmel bloke who's identity that he had borrowed. Its not a stretch of the imagination that they're using something similar.

[Inferno Phoenyx]

I wonder how they hid her breasts, I mean hers were not exactly small. :heh:

Extreme surgery, possibly? :heh::twitch:

[Anh_Minh]

Bandages. Those always work in anime.

[Orga777]

Or it is someone else entirely...<.<

[demon_god04]

Bandages. Those always work in anime.

It must be damned uncomfortable then, those must be really tight bandages since "Lelouch"'s chest seems very flat. :heh:

[Kaze]

Or it is someone else entirely...<.<


No chance, it's definatly the one we think it is


Then there's another problem, how does this "fake lelouch" go to the bathroom unsuspiciously? :heh:

[Eliarine]

...did I miss something or are you suggesting that the "fake" Lelouch is the one at Ashford? Because we've got a rebellion leader somewhere in China, wearing a mask and a cape. :confused:

[demon_god04]

The one wearing the mask and cape also has the geass eye underneath the mask.

[Eliarine]

Does he? Towards the end of the episode the Zero/Lelouch scenes, where we usually "see" Lelouch's face under the Zero mask, are not the same as usual.

[bladeofdarkness]

if the spoiler is true then it expleins why he did what he did at the end of ep 8

showing himself to sayako

[ZeroSama]

Yep when he says "Xinge Ke i should've dealt with you first" he was seriously pissed with the geass clearly visible. Also he had to have been there to geass the coup forces that he found along 1 of the routes they had been planning to discover what they had been up to.

[demon_god04]

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c371/demongod03/Lelouch.jpg

Here is a screenshot from ep 10

[Meatrose]

The Lelouch we've seen in China is the real Lelouch.

[Eliarine]

And I believe I said towards the end of the episode. Meaning after the sun is down. And this is what I'm talking about:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg297/prosm/zerolelouch.jpg

The image is split, whereas it usually isn't.

[demon_god04]

Yes but unless Lelouch and the fake Lelouch can teleport into eachother's position I don't see how the one in that screenshot is not the real Lelouch.

[Orga777]

Yeah, but if the one in China was not Lelouch, then how did the real Lelouch get to Ashford after we clearly see that he is the real Lelouch earlier in China.:confused:

[Meatrose]

So are you suggesting they switched? Well, it seems rather stupid to switch with the fake Lelouch in Ashford since the fake is only there to be seen and the one in China is fighting a war where two of the most brilliant military strategists are currently his opponents.

[Eliarine]

I'm just speculating, because it seems a bit much to me that someone would be able to impersonate Lelouch and his closest friends would not notice. That and I find the split scenes at the end of the episode intriguing. But yeah I guess I'm suggesting they might have switched at some point.

[Meatrose]

I'm just speculating, because it seems a bit much to me that someone would be able to impersonate Lelouch and his closest friends would not notice. That and I find the split scenes at the end of the episode intriguing. But yeah I guess I'm suggesting they might have switched at some point.

Yeah, I agree with you that it's kinda hard to imagine someone impersonating Lelouch in front of his friends at school and pulling it off without anyone noticing. Sure, we know that there are devices that allows you to copy someones voice and use it when you speak (without holding some silly gadget in front of your mouth), but it's still kinda hard to imagine someone pulling it off. I must say though, that the fake Lelouch in the end of the episode was overdoing it (way too cheerful). I'm sure we'll learn in a later episode that at least one of his friends found the way he acted to be a bit strange. ;>

[soto]

I'm just speculating, because it seems a bit much to me that someone would be able to impersonate Lelouch and his closest friends would not notice. That and I find the split scenes at the end of the episode intriguing. But yeah I guess I'm suggesting they might have switched at some point.

I don't think it's that farfetched since his "closest friends", didn't even suspect that he was zero.

[Eliarine]

It's not so much the "suspicious behavior" part that bugs me, it's the fact that they would not notice anything wrong with his face. If one of your friends was suddenly replaced with some random guy with a wig and colored lenses, wouldn't you notice? I know this is anime and Sunrise but come on. :p I'm really hoping it's not that "simple" xD;

[KrimzonStriker]

It's not so much the "suspicious behavior" part that bugs me, it's the fact that they would not notice anything wrong with his face. If one of your friends was suddenly replaced with some random guy with a wig and colored lenses, wouldn't you notice? I know this is anime and Sunrise but come on. :p I'm really hoping it's not that "simple" xD;

The face thing isn't really that hard to pull off even in real life, if you pay attention to just generic Hollywood sessions, you just need the resources and the skill in order to pull it off well enough, and from the looks of this Lelouch they pulled it off quite well or can you notice any difference from his apperance? Now how our fake Lelouch acts is a whole nother department of mimicry :heh:

[Eliarine]

And yet even with heavy Hollywood make-up I'm convinced I would notice it if my friends were suddenly replaced with the guy next door. :rolleyes: And of course I can't notice anything different in his appearance: it's anime. They all have basically the same face except for eyes and hair.

If the Lelouch at Ashford is not the real one, I'll be pointing and laughing at Sunrise next Sunday. Then again it wouldn't be the first time. :p

[Kaze]

If the Lelouch at Ashford is not the real one, I'll be pointing and laughing at Sunrise next Sunday. Then again it wouldn't be the first time. :p

better start laughing in that case :rolleyes:

[Var]

If the Lelouch at Ashford is not the real one, I'll be pointing and laughing at Sunrise next Sunday. Then again it wouldn't be the first time. :p

:eyebrow: Why? People can be replaced, its not that hard a concept or undertaking.

[Dann of Thursday]

And I'm sure Lelouch coulf come up with a very convincing disguise. How he got his replica to match his voice is something I am curious to see. I know we have voice changers, but I saw nothing on the replica to suggest they were using one.

[Eliarine]

:eyebrow: Why? People can be replaced, its not that hard a concept or undertaking.

Yes it is, at such a level of authenticity? As for why I believe that's what I've been talking about in my two previous posts: even with heavy make-up, "replacing" someone among his friends and no one noticing is a bit too much for me. :rolleyes:

[Dann of Thursday]

Listen, do you want to know who it is? I can't say here of course.

[Eliarine]

I've read the spoiler, and I still think it's laughable if said person is masquerading as Lelouch and not Zero. Sorry :p

[orangejuicetang]

..., I personally think that it would be easier to impersonate Zero rather than Lelouch. C.C. done it a few times. Like others have said, I find it hard to imagine his closest friends not noticing any differences in his behavior if it was an impersonator.

[Dann of Thursday]

I've read the spoiler, and I still think it's laughable if said person is masquerading as Lelouch and not Zero. Sorry :p

Well, it's odd of course. It was confirmed as fact though.

And it seems they have found his behavior odd, but not enough for any real suspicion.

[Eliarine]

It was confirmed that the fake Lelouch was the one at Ashford? If you'll excuse me, I'll be laughing in the corner. :D

lol Sunrise :rolleyes:

[Dann of Thursday]

It was confirmed that the fake Lelouch was the one at Ashford? If you'll excuse me, I'll be laughing in the corner. :D

lol Sunrise :rolleyes:

Yes it was. You may laugh of course, but nothing really surprises me anymore. Unless they suddenly switched from Kallen as the LI. That would surprise me a lot.

[Eliarine]

Laughing heartily right now, thank you. :cool: Oh my, this is even better than the one million Zeroes. :D

[Dann of Thursday]

I don't see what's so funny about it personally. It's rather curious and bizarre, but so are several things in this series.

[Meatrose]

Eliarine, like I said earlier, I also find it a bit weird but since this is a show that deals with supernatural powers I'm not all that troubled by these things. I mean, "people" can teleport, grant human beings supernatural powers, resurrect themselves even though they're killed or crushed, and it also seems that they were once ordinary human beings themselves. I actually have a lot more trouble taking stuff like that seriously.

Don't get me wrong though, I really understand why you feel the way you feel about it. =)

[Dann of Thursday]

It's rather bizarre and I'm curious how they plan on explaining it, but that doesn't stop it from happening.

[KrimzonStriker]

Yes it is, at such a level of authenticity? As for why I believe that's what I've been talking about in my two previous posts: even with heavy make-up, "replacing" someone among his friends and no one noticing is a bit too much for me. :rolleyes:

I think you're confusing that with how a person would act rather then the actual simulation of their appearance, seriously, I've basically seen what they can do in this department concerning alteration and the authenticity can be scary. It's not appearance that would be the hardest thing to change, it's simply the overall feel of the person itself, at the same time this isn't some unheard of concept, its been used a lot in the past IIRC and the person ususally gets caught for acting strangely from how they ususally do rather then from a mess up in their disguise... >_>

[Dann of Thursday]

That being said, it seems the replica has been odd in certain ways that has been noticed by some. Not enough to make anyone very suspicious though.

[Eliarine]

There are curious and bizarre things in this series, but there are also some things that are really over the top and make me laugh like crazy. Some of them can be explained by basic "lol magic" argument. Some...can't. But hey, that's actually one of the things I like about Code Geass so it's okay :D

I think you're confusing that with how a person would act rather then the actual simulation of their appearance, seriously, I've basically seen what they can do in this department concerning alteration and the authenticity can be scary. It's not appearance that would be the hardest thing to change, it's simply the overall feel of the person itself, at the same time this isn't some unheard of concept, its been used a lot in the past IIRC and the person ususally gets caught for acting strangely from how they ususally do rather then from a mess up in their disguise... >_>

Yeah yeah yeah. :rolleyes: Can't stop me from thinking this is way too much, sorry ;D

[Dann of Thursday]

Wouldn't be the first time such things have happened. Taniguchi has done series that have some rather crazy things in them.

[KrimzonStriker]

Uhh, just pointing out that even the in the realm of reality, the million Zero costume thing could have been produced, and the authentic disguise of the fake Lelouch is possible and does not really require the magic argument in this case :rolleyes:

[Dann of Thursday]

It worked in V for Vendetta. I have to wonder how they all changed so fast though.