View Full Version : Episode 18 Discussion - Possible Spoilers
Asakura_Y0h
2004-02-06, 21:01
Muahahahahahahahaha.............................. I wanted to be the first to start last week's episode thread and I couldn't so this time NO ONE will beat me to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay, I admit I have nothing else better but to be a thread starter....... Any Hokkien speaking person would use the term "Kiasu" to represent me and I agree totally 100%..... Muahahahahahaha.... so here goes....
No need to use spoiler tags for anything from ep 18 and before but please do for anything after and also if things are on speculation basis please say so just to make sure that the ppl don't get confused at what's being discussed....
SetaNoriyasu
2004-02-07, 00:50
/off Topic
Walauway.... seriously have no comment lar
/off Topic
It probably is going to cover the key aspects of chapter 10 of the manga.
-First branch of the library has been burnt down by Lust.
-The beginning of Gluttony and Scar's fight. (Hopefully they cover further than just the beginning)
-Ed and Al meet a librarian who has read Marcoh's notes and can rewrite the whole thing without any mistakes.
-There is a code to break in order to dechiper Marcoh's notes.
-After many days of trying, Ed and Al finally break the code, only to find that the raw materials needed for a Philosopher's Stone are living humans.
yep that pretty much sums it up...doubt if their will be much more than just that
Muahahahahahahahaha.............................. I wanted to be the first to start last week's episode thread and I couldn't so this time NO ONE will beat me to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay, I admit I have nothing else better but to be a thread starter....... Any Hokkien speaking person would use the term "Kiasu" to represent me and I agree totally 100%..... Muahahahahahaha.... so here goes....
No need to use spoiler tags for anything from ep 18 and before but please do for anything after and also if things are on speculation basis please say so just to make sure that the ppl don't get confused at what's being discussed....
lol in this case, i'll go and create threads for 20 21 22 ... to 52 in advance when the previous ep to it comes... cause i'm a kiasu singaporean... :)
/kinda off topic
yeah...18 is out to dl already somehow...i am tryin to download it now but its only goin 4 kb/s :cry:
Nine Devil
2004-02-08, 16:21
well i watched it was great fighting of Scar against lust and that shitty humaneater.Lust looks like the wife of Scar's brother o.O and wtf i don't get the end you need to kill humans to make the stone?
i think that in order to gain the stone you must exchange human life. not sure if you have to kill them exactly but either way it sounds like there has to be some form of human sacrifice or several. personally i think it has something to do with their soul?? im not really that sure :hmm:
Humm.. The term Scar called Lust and Gluttony really caught my eye... "Homunculus" which is a term I came across before in a game called "shadow of desitny". Which also had a deep theme of alchemy. Supposedly it's a human made being that live beyond time(immortal) and has the power to change destiny. Looks like the definition fits to the point that they're immortal... and they seem to be leading Edward down a certain path. Interesting stuff.
YuuOminae
2004-02-08, 18:00
Humm.. The term Scar called Lust and Gluttony really caught my eye... "Homunculus" which is a term I came across before in a game called "shadow of desitny". Which also had a deep theme of alchemy. Supposedly it's a human made being that live beyond time(immortal) and has the power to change destiny. Looks like the definition fits to the point that they're immortal... and they seem to be leading Edward down a certain path. Interesting stuff.
A homunculus is basically a person that was created through alchemy, aka what Ed and Al tried to do with their mother. It's kind of similar to a golem.
Mcdonalds
2004-02-08, 21:05
This ep is a great ep. It moves the story on a lot and it has a great fight scene for people who love action. It also leaves a lot of questions to be answered from the next episodes which is good in my opinion.
Okay, if they were created, the question would be: By whom? :)
Manga Chapter 31 :heh:
Asakura_Y0h
2004-02-08, 21:32
darn it... the stupid ep is downloading at home and i can't watch it till later cause I'm at work... sigh......
this is severely out of topic and more 'kiasu' mannerism... we have successfully beated Full Metal Panic's no. of posts on the Series Discussion forum.... Hooray!!!! Next up One Piece at 1617posts.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!
luisa081
2004-02-08, 23:26
:topicoff:
what does kiasu mean?
Kamui4356
2004-02-09, 00:02
Just watched the ep. It was great. The Scar vs Lust and Gluttony fight was pretty good. Still it's the characters and plot that make FMA a good series, and this episode was no different. The little detail about the philosopher's stone having humans as one of it's main components shouldn't really have been as much of a suprise because of the law of equivalent trade. It seems like it overcomes that law when it's used for alchemy because the lives of the people needed to make it represent a greater quantity than what would be needed to trade for something through standard alchemy.
:topicoff: Is it just me or does Scieszka remind any one else of Yumiko Readman from R.O.D.?
animefreak
2004-02-09, 00:10
the dictionary says homunculus means "little"..
:topicoff:
what does kiasu mean?
It is a Singaporean slang term that is frequently used Singaporeans (and Malaysians). It is used to describe a one-up-on-you overcompetitive spirit. Basically "if you are going to have/do this, I am going to have/do it first.", not a virtue to have as it is more motivated by greed and pride rather than fair competitive spirit.
Local slang terms should be kept to minimum in global forums.
:topicoff: Is it just me or does Scieszka remind any one else of Yumiko Readman from R.O.D.?
Yep. I believe it is intentional from the mangaka as a sort of homage or respect or fun. Either that or she's the stereotypical anime/manga library girl model.
It seems like it overcomes that law when it's used for alchemy because the lives of the people needed to make it represent a greater quantity than what would be needed to trade for something through standard alchemy.
Not sure what you are trying to say but the point of needing lives to manufacture a Philosopher's Stone is that the ability of greatly amplified alchemy is the cost of many lives (an equal trade if you consider lives as invaluable).
Lust and Gluttony will still lose to Wrath though IMO :D
YuuOminae
2004-02-09, 01:32
Lust and Gluttony will still lose to Wrath though IMO :D
Heh.
It really shocked the hell out of me how badly Wrath owned Greed. I doubt he can regenerate like the others if he ages, but man. He's probably the strongest character in the series besides the father.
Kamui4356
2004-02-09, 01:40
Not sure what you are trying to say but the point of needing lives to manufacture a Philosopher's Stone is that the ability of greatly amplified alchemy is the cost of many lives (an equal trade if you consider lives as invaluable).
Yeah, I could have been clearer on that. What I mean is the philosopher's stone seems to overcome the law of equivilent trade, but it really still abides by it. By sacrificing people when the stone is created, it has a sort of credit, which allows someone to perform alchemy without offering something to trade at the time. In a sense the philosopher's stone is like a pre-paid phone card for alchemy. :heh:
Man I wish I could read raw manga! I feel so behind... :(
Far as I can tell the translators are only on FMA 10 in the manga. :sad:
Anyway, even without reading much of the manga I think it's pretty obvious who created the homunculus.
Scar's brother, DUH. :heh: Realizing his mistake he poured everything he had into Scar's arm, hoping he would purge his former creations.
Of course, having only read so little of the manga, I could be completely wrong. :help:
YuuOminae
2004-02-09, 02:17
Man I wish I could read raw manga! I feel so behind... :(
Far as I can tell the translators are only on FMA 10 in the manga. :sad:
Anyway, even without reading much of the manga I think it's pretty obvious who created the homunculus.
Scar's brother, DUH. :heh: Realizing his mistake he poured everything he had into Scar's arm, hoping he would purge his former creations.
Of course, having only read so little of the manga, I could be completely wrong. :help:
You're completely wrong.
You're completely wrong.
Not suprised at all. :(
Man I wish I could read raw manga! I feel so behind... :(
Far as I can tell the translators are only on FMA 10 in the manga. :sad:
The original is up to chp 31. The chinese scanlates have skipped a few chapters (it seems) since the end of vol 3 but has restarted (since FMA appeared weekly) with 29, 30 & 31.
English scanlates are indeed at chp 10. I think Toriyama World is proceeding on a equal progression basis with the anime.
chhayalak
2004-02-09, 11:24
Humonculus?!?
I kind of got confused with the term they used here, because by definition means a dwarven person.
AH well, this ep was very entertaining, and the next one even looks better.!!
Can't Wait.
Yea the book girl made me think of The Paper, i just wanta know if she's voiced by someone from the R.O.D. anime, anyone know the answer to that?
A definition for homunculus is also a wizard's familiar created out of organic parts with essence of the wizard (typically blood), then infused with dark magic.
Typically you can see this definition being shown in old fantasy shows (the old Sinbad adventures), D&D RPGs and archaic texts.
So does it fit in this series? Yes it does...
A definition for homunculus is also a wizard's familiar created out of organic parts with essence of the wizard (typically blood), then infused with dark magic.
Typically you can see this definition being shown in old fantasy shows (the old Sinbad adventures), D&D RPGs and archaic texts.
So does it fit in this series? Yes it does...
Yep, in the anime series Slayers, there are many homunculus running around. Some of the homunculus are direct clone of individuals, with their personality intact, some of them are a big mistake (like the thing that the wizard wants to create in Slayers OAV episode 1). And then there are the 10 homunculus clone of Naga, laughing away, scaring everyone around.
@Ranko
Yep my first though:
"Sciezka == Yumiko Readman".
Manga Chapter 31 :heh:
Yep, and thus far, he's merely refered to as 'Father'. No, I don't think Ed and Al's father is this person, who appears to be much older. And the Sins have been around for at least 60 years. Thus far, the Sins that have shown up are:
Lust: the semi-defacto leader of the trio that's wandering around the country sowing chaos. She has the ultimate spear from her finger, which we see in action in episode 16 and 18.
Envy: the shape-shifter.
Gluttony: the eat everything
Sloth: (don't know what his power is, in the one frame shot we saw in chapter 31, he's chained on both arms, and appears to be working in a pit)
Greed: the ultimate shield. He can conjure an alchemist coverall on his entire body that's impervious to almost all attacks. Ed eventually figure out how to break that down. He's also break away from the various Sin a while back.
Wrath: created after Greed break away. Very fast, very powerful, and I'm not going to say anymore except that he's already shown up the anime already.
Pride doesn't appears to have been created yet
Heh.
It really shocked the hell out of me how badly Wrath owned Greed. I doubt he can regenerate like the others if he ages, but man. He's probably the strongest character in the series besides the father.
I have no doubt that Wrath regenerates like other Oroborus. He ages because it's part of his cover as a rather prominent individual. He would've stick out like a sore thumb if in 40 years of his existance, he hasn't age a single day.
I have no doubt that Wrath regenerates like other Oroborus. He ages because it's part of his cover as a rather prominent individual. He would've stick out like a sore thumb if in 40 years of his existance, he hasn't age a single day.
Might be my wishful thinking but...
I'm thinking that Wrath might betray the father as well by joining the side of the Elrics or leaving the confrontrations in the future. He is likely the most human of the lot (with a family and such) and he seems to have a gentle side (opposite to his representation).
Of course it could all be an act to accomplish the goal of ensuring the final sacrifice. But since Greed has shown his individuality, why not Wrath?
Yondaime
2004-02-10, 02:35
Since Pride hasnt shown up yet I'm curious if its about to be born as the most powerful Homonculus as "The Father"'s greatest creation :) Considering "Pride" is the most deadly of the 7 sins it makes you think it would be the most powerful too :) I dunno just a lil speculation based on some biblical facts ^^
- Yondaime
YuuOminae
2004-02-10, 04:55
Yep, and thus far, he's merely refered to as 'Father'. No, I don't think Ed and Al's father is this person, who appears to be much older. And the Sins have been around for at least 60 years. Thus far, the Sins that have shown up are:
Lust: the semi-defacto leader of the trio that's wandering around the country sowing chaos. She has the ultimate spear from her finger, which we see in action in episode 16 and 18.
Envy: the shape-shifter.
Gluttony: the eat everything
Sloth: (don't know what his power is, in the one frame shot we saw in chapter 31, he's chained on both arms, and appears to be working in a pit)
Greed: the ultimate shield. He can conjure an alchemist coverall on his entire body that's impervious to almost all attacks. Ed eventually figure out how to break that down. He's also break away from the various Sin a while back.
Wrath: created after Greed break away. Very fast, very powerful, and I'm not going to say anymore except that he's already shown up the anime already.
Pride doesn't appears to have been created yet
As much as I love to talk about the recent chapters, it'd be a better idea to make a new thread for them since this is the episode 18 one.
Anyway, I'll add a few things.
Greed's been around for over 200 years actually. He left the organization 100 years ago, and by the time he left, there was a Sloth, Envy, Lust, and Gluttony. The father might also be a homunculus if he's old enough to have been back that long ago.
<beginning of science lesson>
Homunculus is a term used by old biologists refering to 'a complete miniature human being' which was believed to 'live' in each sperm before being implanted in a woman's womb.
This was of course before the days when they realised that one half of the genetic material of a human comes from each parent :)
Embrology does have its uses ;)
<end of science lesson>
according to my friend, who reads a helluva lot of fantasy books, homuncleus is created by mixing an alchemist's blood and mud, then reciting some sort of spell. that's the fantasy version. so i'd imagine of the alchemic circles would substitute for a spell.
and.... scar-man looked in a tough spot, unless he's that much better than i think. ...
Soylent Stone is PEOPLE!!! PEEEOOPPLEEE!!!
sorry.. had to do it... hehe.
Asakura_Y0h
2004-02-11, 02:55
according to my friend, who reads a helluva lot of fantasy books, homuncleus is created by mixing an alchemist's blood and mud, then reciting some sort of spell. that's the fantasy version. so i'd imagine of the alchemic circles would substitute for a spell.
and.... scar-man looked in a tough spot, unless he's that much better than i think. ...
Soylent Stone is PEOPLE!!! PEEEOOPPLEEE!!!
sorry.. had to do it... hehe.
what's with the people peoplee????? okie.... i never knew the part about homunculus being thought of as the little person in the little boys... anyway, I was wondering about this... part of ep 18..... mustang is not yet back in charge of central right? he's just temporarily isn't it? can someone just clear this up for me because I don't understand what he's doing in central....
what's with the people peoplee????? okie.... i never knew the part about homunculus being thought of as the little person in the little boys... anyway, I was wondering about this... part of ep 18..... mustang is not yet back in charge of central right? he's just temporarily isn't it? can someone just clear this up for me because I don't understand what he's doing in central....
Mustang is NOT in Central in this episode. He's in Eastern HQ, taking a call from Hughes, who IS in Central HQ.
Mustang basically got exiled to the frontier 3 years ago. But he took it as an opportunity to build up his own base. Meanwhile Hughes is just passing a piece of rumor that Mustang's exile might be coming to an end, and relocate back to Central due to the untimely death of Iron Blood Basque Gran. At there are plenty of people who's aware of his upward mobility ambition.
Meanwhile Hughes is just passing a piece of rumor that Mustang's exile might be coming to an end, and relocate back to Central due to the untimely death of Iron Blood Basque Gran.
This probably means we'll be seeing the flame alchemist in action hopefully soon and he's one step closer to those miniskirts as the uniforms. :p
This probably means we'll be seeing the flame alchemist in action hopefully soon and he's one step closer to those miniskirts as the uniforms. :p
Oh he'll be back in Central...
but it's likely he'll be coming back in grief :(
a_nevels666
2004-02-11, 14:22
Soylent Stone is PEOPLE!!! PEEEOOPPLEEE!!!
sorry.. had to do it... hehe.
what's with the people peoplee?????
In the movie Soylent Green, the product 'Goylent Green' was made of people.
In Fullmetal Alchemist the Philosopher's Stone requires people to be created.
Get it now?
polymath
2004-02-12, 21:05
I wonder why Scar can't simply unconstruct the humonculi.
He seems very good at destroying other creations. This show is too cool. They keep a sense of mystery without letting it get annoying.
I wonder why Scar can't simply unconstruct the humonculi.
He seems very good at destroying other creations. This show is too cool. They keep a sense of mystery without letting it get annoying.
He didn't know what homunculus' composition are initially. When he put his right hand to Gluttony, he applied destruction of human flesh sigil, which while did injure Gluttony, but didn't seemed to slow him down. He then try a different sigil, and did tore off his enemy's right arm.
Remember, when he first battle Edward, he also applied the same technique, and only managed to destroy Ed's sleeve. It was when he switch to destruction of metal sigil that he managed to destroy Ed's automail.
He didn't know what homunculus' composition are initially. When he put his right hand to Gluttony, he applied destruction of human flesh sigil, which while did injure Gluttony, but didn't seemed to slow him down. He then try a different sigil, and did tore off his enemy's right arm.
Remember, when he first battle Edward, he also applied the same technique, and only managed to destroy Ed's sleeve. It was when he switch to destruction of metal sigil that he managed to destroy Ed's automail.
I was thinking more that the animators are making him a shadow of Edward. Since he is not sure of his capabilities (due to no memory/knowledge of what his arm can do), he has to 'level up' and discover them. I'm pretty sure in the future, he can be pretty much on par with the homunculi.
In the manga, he did not recognise Lust and Gluttony for what they are. In the anime, he instantly identifies them...? *shrug* If he can identify them, he should know what they are made of then (but not probably their strength).
But let us not forget that the homunculi have regenerative powers and definitely much much stronger than a human.
Forsaken102
2004-02-13, 07:30
lol in this case, i'll go and create threads for 20 21 22 ... to 52 in advance when the previous ep to it comes... cause i'm a kiasu singaporean... :)
(*sighs*)
I have nothing more to say to that... -_-'
Oh he'll be back in Central...
but it's likely he'll be coming back in grief :(
Manga Spoiler
Yep. I just read that portion of the manga...
Does everyone agree when I say that (not counting the episode where Nina died) Episode 18 had the best ending? I'm not talking about the song, but the end of the show, which was synchronized with the ED song.
I think it was that... (forgot his name) muscled guy... He says something, then you can hear bokura wa ima demo sakenderu from the song, then he ends his sentence and then the song really starts. I REALLY liked that. 19-22 wasn't really the same.
<beginning of science lesson>
Homunculus is a term used by old biologists refering to 'a complete miniature human being' which was believed to 'live' in each sperm before being implanted in a woman's womb.
This was of course before the days when they realised that one half of the genetic material of a human comes from each parent :)
Embrology does have its uses ;)
<end of science lesson>
No wonder masturbation was so looked down upon, it was like murdering a small city :( the poor little people went splat on the floor. :topicoff:
for best ending aside of the nina episode. I would say 21. where is just trails off with eds line "I am not a normal alchimist"
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