View Full Version : Licensed Moso Dairinin (Paranoia agent)
Go-lytely
2004-02-07, 02:51
This is a new series by Satoshi Kon (Millenium actress, Perfect Blue) and after 1 ep I was really impressed. It is very weird so I dont think everyone will like it but for those who want something a little different I recommend the first ep. I found out later that the script writer was Seishi Minakami (boogiepop Phantom) and now I know why the style felt so similar. Apparently the whole series revolves around the kid on rollerblades who assaults different people.
Since the show includes Geneon USA in the credits, we are treating it as being licensed by them. Moved thread into the DVD & Licensed forum.
Anyway, sounds like an interesting series :heh:
microlith
2004-02-07, 11:11
Probably with just as immature an attitude when UV contacted them about Ninja Scroll.
Probably with just as immature an attitude when UV contacted them about Ninja Scroll.
I think it's called "balls." ;) Look it up in the dictionary.
And then of course nobody here really knows if it is licensed or not at this point. Just "being on the safe side" I guess. :rolleyes:
Roq
Geneon has yet to email anyone about their titles. And it is 99.9% likely licensed. Similar cases of this include: IMMSE (3), Haibane (after the series?), Texhnolyze (10?), (The # in parenthesis is the episode which last aired when it was confirmed by pioneer). And thats just those i can come up with off the top of my head. The trailer looked so bleh though.... and every single series pioneer has pre-licensed has seriously disappointed me.
Go-lytely
2004-02-07, 17:56
Seems like Pioneer was never very active against fansubbers. Will things change with Geneon? Time will tell i suppose.
I think it's called "balls." ;) Look it up in the dictionary.
And then of course nobody here really knows if it is licensed or not at this point. Just "being on the safe side" I guess. :rolleyes:
Roq
Ah yes, AJ has the integrety and quality to keep with their stellar translation services. They are to be commended indeed!
Safe side? If Geneon USA is listed in the credits, then it's a given it's licensed to them. The only way it wouldn't be is if they decide to sell it to somebody else at a future point... and it will still be licensed.
Ah yes, AJ has the integrety and quality to keep with their stellar translation services. They are to be commended indeed!
Safe side? If Geneon USA is listed in the credits, then it's a given it's licensed to them. The only way it wouldn't be is if they decide to sell it to somebody else at a future point... and it will still be licensed.
Ah I see. "It's a given." Well that's good enough for you I guess. You don't actually work for Geneon or Pioneer do you? Or I mean do you just do this as a hobby? You really should get paid if you're going to waste your time doing such a job for them. :)
I sure hope you're correct and it does come out on DVD in some region with english subs, and within a reasonable time-frame--I'll be the first in line to get it, pre-order it in fact lol. Until then I'll just shut up and enjoy some brilliant Kon, with excellent translation courtesy of AJ.
Roq
P.S. I wouldn't normally stoop to mention this, but since it is rather ironic as you seem to be aching to disparage AJ...you might want to make use of a spellchecker yourself, criticaster.
excellent translation courtesy of AJOh, I see, your entire post was sarcasm. That was a bit too subtle for me, but even I can't help but notice an AJ joke.
Ah I see. "It's a given." Well that's good enough for you I guess. You don't actually work for Geneon or Pioneer do you? Or I mean do you just do this as a hobby? You really should get paid if you're going to waste your time doing such a job for them. :)
I sure hope you're correct and it does come out on DVD in some region with english subs, and within a reasonable time-frame--I'll be the first in line to get it, pre-order it in fact lol. Until then I'll just shut up and enjoy some brilliant Kon, with excellent translation courtesy of AJ.
Roq
P.S. I wouldn't normally stoop to mention this, but since it is rather ironic as you seem to be aching to disparage AJ...you might want to make use of a spellchecker yourself, criticaster.
Pfft. Oh no, I misspelt a single word in a public message board post. What of it?
And hey, you can download and enjoy AJ fansubs all you want. But don't take me for a fool. I don't need to go to a con or read a press release to understand the show is licensed when it specifically lists an American anime distributor in the closing credits.
microlith
2004-02-09, 01:29
I sure hope you're correct and it does come out on DVD in some region with english subs, and within a reasonable time-frame
Right, Geneon USA likes to just throw their money away on random things. Everything that's had their name on it has been released stateside. There's no chance this won't. Anyone who even thinks this needs to be fansubs deserves a good clubbing, cause they're fools.
And AJ is the ass-end of fansubbing. They're only making everyone else look worse.
SwiftStar
2004-02-10, 15:19
I'm glad its licensed because what I saw of it was really good and the animation begs for a quality DVD picture. I hope we dont have to wait too long though. I may just check out AJ's stuff until it gets teh DVD treatment and then go show my friends my new trippy treat for them. My friends always count on me to have something weird or trippy to watch while we eat in-between gaming.
Interesting ethical dilemma: is it okay for me to download and watch raws of a licensed show? I only sort of know what's going on, but I still have a complete episode on my computer.
Of course, I think everything, no matter what, is technically illegal, so in the end, it's rather moot.
Seen episodes 1 and 2. This show is absolutely brilliant. I'm sure that, given its all-star staff credits, Geneon will make this a top priority release. Maybe volume 1 will be ready in time for Halloween?
Go-lytely
2004-02-10, 16:09
Interesting ethical dilemma: is it okay for me to download and watch raws of a licensed show? I only sort of know what's going on, but I still have a complete episode on my computer.
Of course, I think everything, no matter what, is technically illegal, so in the end, it's rather moot.
Seen episodes 1 and 2. This show is absolutely brilliant. I'm sure that, given its all-star staff credits, Geneon will make this a top priority release. Maybe volume 1 will be ready in time for Halloween?
Geneon (Pioneer) was always pretty good about not sitting on titles and releasing them quickly. So I think, a 1st dvd 6 months after the show finishes airing is more likely.
Geneon (Pioneer) was always pretty good about not sitting on titles and releasing them quickly. So I think, a 1st dvd 6 months after the show finishes airing is more likely.
Which would be around Halloween. ^_^
SwiftStar
2004-02-10, 16:23
Which would be around Halloween. ^_^
[needless whining]Halloween. Aww man! That's too far away [/needless whining]
On the plus side, Halloween is the perfect time to debut a show like this. I cant quite figure out why but there is a sense of impending doom in it. Maybe it's the opening. It looked apacolyptic to me.
Maybe volume 1 will be ready in time for Halloween?It's that good of a show?!! The void that has been left by the end of the Kousetsu Hyaku Mongatari series needs to be filled. Is there anyway to get a overview of the first episode?
It's that good of a show?!! The void that has been left by the end of the Kousetsu Hyaku Mongatari series needs to be filled. Is there anyway to get a overview of the first episode?
Based on what little I've seen, I'd say it's better than 100 Stories, although the two shows are fairly different. Paranoia Agent is more of a "WTF WEIRD DUDE" compared to Monogatari's "WTF FUCKED UP DUDE" tone, if that makes any sense at all.
The only real writeup I've seen is JASCII's (http://www.jascii.net/newanime/jascii.php?jascii_view=134).
It looks very promising. The animation is great and the characters are very nicely designed. From the little that has been told so far, the story seems intriguing.
It's not the typical "everyone looks great" anime: the journalist (I think he's a journalist, Jasconius says he looks like a detective) is disgusting.
The old people look really old (that guy from the hospital was really great).
I can only hope it has 26 episodes and not 13 like most of this season's anime :)
Go-lytely
2004-02-12, 15:35
It looks very promising. The animation is great and the characters are very nicely designed. From the little that has been told so far, the story seems intriguing.
It's not the typical "everyone looks great" anime: the journalist (I think he's a journalist, Jasconius says he looks like a detective) is disgusting.
The old people look really old (that guy from the hospital was really great).
I can only hope it has 26 episodes and not 13 like most of this season's anime :)
Its just 13 from what ive heard.
Err... that a-kraze web link wasn't in the actual sub they did, was it? Kinda shameless self-promotion there. ^_-
Ah, and he's a gossip magazine journalist! That makes so much more sense now in that context.
Based on what little I've seen, I'd say it's better than 100 Stories, although the two shows are fairly different. Paranoia Agent is more of a "WTF WEIRD DUDE" compared to Monogatari's "WTF FUCKED UP DUDE" tone, if that makes any sense at all.
The only real writeup I've seen is JASCII's (http://www.jascii.net/newanime/jascii.php?jascii_view=134).lol..That "WTF FUCKED UP DUDE" makes perfect sense for Monogatari, but to make sense of the other part I need to watch the first episode. I will be doing just that tomorrow because of a five days of unexpected "week-ends" from school.
edit: According to this link (http://jeansnow.net/movabletype/archives/001772.html) the series is consist of 13 episodes.
It was, and im the typesetter. I advice you to take self promotion back, since that's kinda damaging to my reputation if you know what I mean :p j/k
And it's not damaging to your reputation to fansub licensed anime?
There are plenty of unsubbed shows that will never get licensed. Why are you wasting your time subbing licensed stuff?
If we had one ep of Doraemon subbed for every time that a group either over subbed something or did something that was licensed, we could have *every* episode subbed.
First of all, PA is not licensed, but will be...
2nd Fansubbing is illegal in general, so I don't really care if you know what I mean. If someone claimed that they are fansubbing legal, then I would ask the person/group who fansubbed, if s/he got permission to fansub it in english and distrobute it over the internet from the licensed holder in Japan.
I don't think you quite understand the difference between something being licensed and something being announced that it's licensed. The reason "ethical" (no implication of actual ethics, just using terminology here) fansubbers usually wait until something has been announced to drop it is because there were no other hints that it had been licensed. Just because it hasn't been announced doesn't mean that it hasn't been licensed. Some companies aren't allowed to announce their license and/or start distributing until after a certain amount of time, to prevent a large reverse-importation of R1s into Japan. Since Geneon USA is mentioned in the credits, the show would have been licensed, if not by Geneon USA, then by whomever they sold the licensing rights to.
And people weren't arguing that unlicensed fansubs are less illegal than licensed ones. Fansubbers who drop licensed anime drop it because it may hurt sales in the US. (Either that, or they're trying to look good by following a recipe)
microlith
2004-02-13, 05:27
Ever thought how ethical fansub will hurt the anime companies in japan?
Which is how digisubbing is really testing their boundaries, not only do they have to deal with people easily distributing shit raw on stuff like Winny, but they've got fansubbers threatening the very profitable international license base.
Generally, as I've stated before, fansubbing was done solely cause only the Japanese could bring suit and as such they did it only so long as it was not licensed, to promote stuff.
Of course, little needs promotion needs today, suprisingly that little is rarely done. People are doing surefire shit like Fullmetal Alchemist, Naruto, Planetes, Wolf's Rain, etc...
And to correct something, yes, PA is licensed. It's as licensed as everything else Geneon USA has distributed that was produced with their name on it.
I think Jerry Chu's quote about Gundam can probably be applied to all Anime today, it's not a matter of IF, but WHEN.
Bah, not another ethical discussion again. And microlith always suddenly appears when these things come up. ;)
Personally, I think if you're trying to convince each other, it's been tested and the result is it's kind of pointless. If they get a lawsuit, and the entire fansub community gets fscked, too bad. You already tried to say whatever you wanted to say, so there. And if you think they suck, then don't download from them, whatever, but even though I haven't been on the forums that long it's... well... annoying. Definitely, I can skip through all of it (I almost always do), but gee, why do it in the first place? Some things are best left to be given up.
Personally, I think it's been great so far - very good animation, IMO. Expected from the rather stellar animation crew... with Masashi Andou (used to be part of Ghibli, worked on the wonderful Mononoke and Spirited Away), even though if I'm not wrong he's only the character designer, I'm pretty sure he helped with the animation and all too, to make sure the characters look close to the design and stuff, or something. Because the main character (damn I forgot her name), you could see her emotions displayed not too obviously but in a wonderful and subtle way that you can understand...
Remember Chihiro's expressions in Spirited Away? The unconscious response of everyone is that everyone could feel what she felt pretty easily. I think the same magic is working here, at least on me (or maybe I'm just obsessed.). When the main character whats-her-name was on the hospital bed and being all quiet over everything, there is a lot you can see... I think you should go see it for yourself if you want to know what I mean.
I love the designing. The stupid journalist reminded me of one of those frogs from Spirited Away... he also has some great animation. And the old man really looks very realistic. This is the type of designing I really admire. It can show a kind of simplistic realism... as in, it's not detailed-realistic, but it can capture exactly the key elements of realism...
The OP theme is kind of different, don't you think?
I think Jerry Chu's quote about Gundam can probably be applied to all Anime today, it's not a matter of IF, but WHEN.
From the ever so famous http://www.fansview.com/2004/ohayocon/012404a.htm :
Greenfield flatly said "There's really no purpose for fansubbing anymore - if it's being made in Japan, it's going to come over here."
Before, the line from ADV was "90% of new shows are licensed". We actually tried this out last year. As of Otakon 2003, of the april shows, about 50% were acquired by a US company. (I believe the final number was 15 of 27). However, 22% of the new shows in april were announced by the end of the month.(!)
Note: I believe that the number for april 2003 is still around 60% as of now and if we add on the shows that are rumored, we are still well short of 90%.
and Parania Agent is licensed but not officially announced. Geneon has this habit of funding shows and not being able to comment on them at this time.
Bah, not another ethical discussion again. And microlith always suddenly appears when these things come up. ;)
Personally, I think if you're trying to convince each other, it's been tested and the result is it's kind of pointless. If they get a lawsuit, and the entire fansub community gets fscked, too bad. You already tried to say whatever you wanted to say, so there. And if you think they suck, then don't download from them, whatever, but even though I haven't been on the forums that long it's... well... annoying. Definitely, I can skip through all of it (I almost always do), but gee, why do it in the first place? Some things are best left to be given up.
Personally, I think it's been great so far - very good animation, IMO. Expected from the rather stellar animation crew... with Masashi Andou (used to be part of Ghibli, worked on the wonderful Mononoke and Spirited Away), even though if I'm not wrong he's only the character designer, I'm pretty sure he helped with the animation and all too, to make sure the characters look close to the design and stuff, or something. Because the main character (damn I forgot her name), you could see her emotions displayed not too obviously but in a wonderful and subtle way that you can understand...
Remember Chihiro's expressions in Spirited Away? The unconscious response of everyone is that everyone could feel what she felt pretty easily. I think the same magic is working here, at least on me (or maybe I'm just obsessed.). When the main character whats-her-name was on the hospital bed and being all quiet over everything, there is a lot you can see... I think you should go see it for yourself if you want to know what I mean.
I love the designing. The stupid journalist reminded me of one of those frogs from Spirited Away... he also has some great animation. And the old man really looks very realistic. This is the type of designing I really admire. It can show a kind of simplistic realism... as in, it's not detailed-realistic, but it can capture exactly the key elements of realism...
The OP theme is kind of different, don't you think?
There's a lot of subtle character poses and expressions that I recognize from Satoshi Kon's films as well, especially with the girl, Sagi-chan.
And uh... was I the only one who liked the subtle, tasteful way they fanserviced her? ^_^ Occasional, brief shots from logical viewpoints. The delicate care that went into this show is nothing short of amazing.
There's a lot of subtle character poses and expressions that I recognize from Satoshi Kon's films as well, especially with the girl, Sagi-chan.
And uh... was I the only one who liked the subtle, tasteful way they fanserviced her? ^_^ Occasional, brief shots from logical viewpoints. The delicate care that went into this show is nothing short of amazing.
I agree completely. It is full of such subtle brilliance. I am glad to see that the groundbreaking quality of this series is overshadowing the entire argument about licensing/fansubbing. It's an extraordinary piece of art and as I said I will pay the admission price to see it as soon as it is available for sale. Until then I cannot resist making use of the excellent fansubs by A-Kraze, and I commend them for their work.
Roq
He was the one who ran down the old geezer, and thats old geezer something is demanding him to pay up.
Upon further examination! He has an email.... :O it looks like kaoru@mousou.com . Wanna try spamming it? XD That's actually pretty nifty, they decided to give him a detailed email and all rather than just lines... cool!
Go-lytely
2004-02-17, 02:01
Damn, this show is so damn weird but I love it. The Yuuichi kid had me rolling whenever he did his sparkly smile. I cant wait to see how everything ties together at the end. Its like a puzzle and each episode is a piece. Anyone have a clue how the number 510 is related in the first ep?
gmackenz
2004-02-17, 23:22
Damn, this show is so damn weird but I love it. The Yuuichi kid had me rolling whenever he did his sparkly smile. I cant wait to see how everything ties together at the end. Its like a puzzle and each episode is a piece. Anyone have a clue how the number 510 is related in the first ep?
I thought that #510 is the Apartment number of the first victim, whats-her-name, the woman who is the doll designer.
----
I very much like the opening and closing title sequences as they're original, smart, humorous, and not at demeaningly ecchi like most of the more moronic standard shows currently being shown in Japan. Great lyrics for the song :)
It was also her room number at the hospital.
Episode 2 spoiler:
The equation changed in episode 2 to the number "1" which was in reference to that episode's lead character. There'll probably be further connections to this as the story progresses.
The Faction's Lord
2004-02-23, 16:21
Well, this series is very interesting, the two I have seen, I've liked. Yeah, I think the equation will continue into future episodes, it's weird how that guy gets them though. Also, anyone have any idea what the 'what's on next week' stuff means? It's very confusing (I mean the text)
My theory of the moment:
The old man at the hospital is Shounen Bat.
I dunno, that strikes me as being too obvious, though. I guess we'll wait and see. ^_^
Ep3 is out guys. The best episode of all so far. :)
I like it, finally an adult show to watch. I think the pattern is obvious after eps3. I'm not sure if shonen bat even exists, wouldn't he have to know exactly what is going on with these people?
Say, I know this is a bit late, but wasn't it cool how they made a little reference to the REAL Japanese anime otaku in the 1st ep? When the police were asking around if anyone saw a small boy with a bat (gee, how unsubtle), there was this fat guy with small-typical-lolicon-looking-anime-girls-with-the-nurse-uniform-setup poster on his door...
Can't wait to get teh 3rd ep.
And if this anime is staying true to its coolness, I think they might do this psychological twist:
make it seem so cool that you will think they don't take the more obvious answer of the old guy
make it as if the old guy did it (our response would be HUH? Why the obvious guy? what a let-down)
but then surprise our assumptions and make it someone else!
Bah, though that's rather hypothetical...
Given the screenwriter also did Boogiepop Phantom, a surprise twist like that wouldn't be all that erm... surprising.
I like it, finally an adult show to watch. I think the pattern is obvious after eps3. I'm not sure if shonen bat even exists, wouldn't he have to know exactly what is going on with these people?
Yeah, but I don't see a link between the second and the third victims (the sleezy reporter and the fatty). Unless that hasn't been revealed yet, which is perfectly possible.
I love the speculation. Something physical is definitely happening, or else we wouldn't be having people hospitalized in critical condition. Who or what the cause is... I dunno, after seeing episode 3, I think I'll rule out the "obvious" suspect I mentioned earlier as being the culprit. If you've seen Boogiepop Phantom, I'm starting to think his role will be a bit more tragic, much like Manaka's was (Boogiepop's "butterfly girl").
Anyone ever read Jhonen Vasquez's "Johnny the Homicidal Maniac"? I swear, Sagi's plushie is gonna turn out like those dolls did. Watch out, Sagi-chan! :(
Yeah, but I don't see a link between the second and the third victims (the sleezy reporter and the fatty). Unless that hasn't been revealed yet, which is perfectly possible.
Yeah the fatty seems to be a bit of an anomaly. Hmm. Also there was some pretty strong implication in the 3rd episode that Shounen Bat is actually helping or "liberating" the people he's attacking. Of course fatty didn't look much better off, unless Shounen Bat believes in some sort of perverse social Darwinism lol.
God the beginning was morbidly hilarious. That fat bastard living out his squalid fantasies. Can someone more knowledgeable than me say who those little women dolls he had where? I thought I saw sailor moon among them lol but it was probably my twisted imagination.
Anyway, what a great show. Best I've seen. Literally beats the pants off everything on tv in America.
Wasn't he yelling out a Puni Puni Poemi reference or something? >_<
Some episode 2 spoilerish info:
Back to the fatty, it may've been done more in conjunction with Icchi. To help him fully realize his desperation, he smacked the fatty simply to set him up. Orrr... we only saw half the story with that episode. It wouldn't surprise me if a future episode goes back to set up the fatty's story. We might also learn his connection to the sleezy reporter (if there is one), and maybe even the identity of the anonymous photographer who set up Icchi. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the fatty was all that involved in Icchi's defamation. He just took advantage of the situation, but wasn't the ringleader.
Wasn't he yelling out a Puni Puni Poemi reference or something? >_<
Some episode 2 spoilerish info:
Back to the fatty, it may've been done more in conjunction with Icchi. To help him fully realize his desperation, he smacked the fatty simply to set him up. Orrr... we only saw half the story with that episode. It wouldn't surprise me if a future episode goes back to set up the fatty's story. We might also learn his connection to the sleezy reporter (if there is one), and maybe even the identity of the anonymous photographer who set up Icchi. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the fatty was all that involved in Icchi's defamation. He just took advantage of the situation, but wasn't the ringleader.
Hmm, yes I was wondering about a couple of those things:
It could have just been to help Icchi, that was my initial thought. But it seems rather severe lol. Although of course whoever or whatever Batboy is, he probably isn't too concerned with innocent bystanders. Hmm I hope they do touch on it in future episodes, that would be interesting. Yes I forgot about the photographer setting up Icchi hmm, that would seem to suggest that they might elaborate on that in future. I totally agree the Fatty wasn't involved in Icchi's defamation. It just seemed like Icchi's paranoia to blame him, no?
Lol all these questions reminds me of watching "Twin Peaks" when I was younger, and there was even the cherry stem trick in the first episode lol. Not that any of this is remotely relevant.
Go-lytely
2004-02-24, 16:46
[QUOTE=Ballz]Wasn't he yelling out a Puni Puni Poemi reference or something? >_<
Nah, puni puni is one of those Japanese nonsense words for something soft and squishy (and very hugable).
Well, since people are posting theories, here's mine. I've seen up to ep 2.
I don't think Shounen Bat is helping or liberating his victims. He seems to appear/strike when a person is mentally agitated. In the first two incidents, he acts on the doll designer's agitation. First on her stress at having to come up with an even more popular doll, and then on the nosy reporter who was bothering her. In the third incident he (shounen bat) seems to latch onto Ichi's hatred/paranioa towards the other kid. He appears to take out the other kid right as Ichi was wishing for exactly that. Except it doesn't quite work out the way he wants. I'm thinking that Shounen Bat might be the physical manifestation of various people's negative mental enegy or something? Perhaps the old man is mentaly challenged and therefore able to pick up what Shounen Bat is up to? Yeah, grasping at straws here, I know. :P
At any rate, I'll be interested to see more of this. I hope this is/or gets licensed if it isn't already. If the rest of the series is as good as the first two eps, I'll be sure to want a sparkly new copy of my own.
Yeah, but I don't see a link between the second and the third victims (the sleezy reporter and the fatty). Unless that hasn't been revealed yet, which is perfectly possible.(
how about this? the investigator was on to something, he did have quite a bit of contact with the first victim. The fatty's role in Ichi's story was also significant. Remember Ichi wanted the fatty to get whacked, and the first victim probably also wanted the nosy reporter to get whacked so he would leave her alone. It seems all the primary victims (we will see about the 3rd one) can summon shonen bat boy to take care of anyone they want to dispose of, including themselves. That's my theory so far anyways.
Oh, and I forgot to ask earlier, but in episode 3...
Dude, wtf was with the clown makeup at the very end?! Are they just purposely trying to creep the audience out?!
Oh, and I forgot to ask earlier, but in episode 3...
Dude, wtf was with the clown makeup at the very end?! Are they just purposely trying to creep the audience out?!
Lol. I would say the answer is YES. And it worked. :eek:
Oh... oh my god. This series is going to be one of my favourites. It seems so uncomfortable and weird and I LOVE it. Beautiful animation, interesting soundtrack, great acting, great directing and scriptwriting - there is a LOT of great allusion featured in this anime...
(spoilers up til ep 3)
For example, right after the scene where Harumi gets attacked by Shounen Bat, it says "All messages have been deleted" - a wonderful way to connect to the whole rest of the episode with the messages motif, and also to signify that all of her schizophrenic life has finally been taken care of. I was VERY drawn into this episode - not just because of the detailed animation and voice acting, but the situation itself...
And that clown face thing - it totally freaked me out. O_O But I think it's signifying how Harumi, all her life, has been wearing a mask over her face, just like a clown... how she's always tried to be happy and not been as she is. Is it a good thing Shounen Bat hit her? Noone knows...
And I wonder what about that butterfly the old jii-san was drawing on the floor (O_o; ) - during the short break mid-episode (you know where they say Paranoia Agent and then it's supposed to be the ad break), they were showing butterflies weren't they?...
And I think SHounen Bat hit Icchi later because Icchi almost certainly would have been put to VERY big shame and dishonour because he happened to be with Usshi when Shounen Bat was hit. Everybody knows Icchi dislikes Usshi - and with him being attacked, it confirms their suspicion. I think Icchi would have desparately want to be attacked too, so that he is cleared of any blame. And he was! He said he was happy about that...
The problem is though, what if Shounen Bat starts... killing people?
Ah, and now we've had two cases of otaku-appearance in the anime. w00t.
And takuan, if you noticed the forum in which this post is in... DVD & Licensed - you'd notice it's already been licensed. :) It's pre-licensed by Geneon USA. Please please please let's hope they'll release it soon - if they pre-licensed it they must be putting their money on it that it'd sell well outside of Japan. (I'll definitely be buying it!)
I was thinking that each character is being represented by an animal that the old man was drawing... mainly because he also had drawn a frog. I'd have to go over it more carefully to see if he drew anything else besides a frog, butterfly and bird.
episode 3 spoiler:
I was thinking the butterfly and "bird" he drew both represented the two sides of Harumi. The cute innocent Harumi was the butterfly, and the black, menacing crow was Maria.
The Faction's Lord
2004-02-25, 12:58
Well the crow definitely has some significance as whenever Harumi saw one she thought about Maria, however the connection between Maria and the crow is uncertain.
Also, it seems that Shounen Bat wants the best and the worst for everyone, the best is the sense of relief he gave some of the people, the worst is things like the photo's of Icchi bullying and attacking the two people who wouldn't have reason to feel relieved.
the worst is things like the photo's of Icchi bullying and
What makes you think Shounen Bat took that picture?
attacking the two people who wouldn't have reason to feel relieved.
That remains to be seen. In episode 3, one of the cops remarked that all of the victims seemed to be rather at peace with themselves, especially given the trauma they underwent.
SwiftStar
2004-02-25, 19:32
I have a question. I just watched ep 3 and maybe I missed it, but I didnt see any clear indication of which side of her personality survived. :twitch:
Very disturbing episode. Very good series.
I have a question. I just watched ep 3 and maybe I missed it, but I didnt see any clear indication of which side of her personality survived. :twitch:
Very disturbing episode. Very good series.
they didn't really say it but there were good and strong indications her slutty side disappeared
I have a question. I just watched ep 3 and maybe I missed it, but I didnt see any clear indication of which side of her personality survived. :twitch:
Very disturbing episode. Very good series.
Well obviously her normal side survived. Every victim of the bat boy has miraculously been cured of their problems they had before there incident. Good show so far reminds me of 100 stories a lot.
Well obviously her normal side survived. Every victim of the bat boy has miraculously been cured of their problems they had before there incident. Good show so far reminds me of 100 stories a lot.
But what about the stupid reporter and Usshi?
But what about the stupid reporter and Usshi?
Oh yeah them. Well maybe in the next episode will learn what has become of them. I would think they would be same as the other bat boy victims.
Quarkboy
2004-02-27, 03:09
My theory:
After rewatching the first episode, look carefully at the second attack scene, when they show shonen bat standing in front of Tsuki-chan, muromi-chan (the plushy) is positioned in shonen bat's shadow so that it looks like shonen bat's face.
That's why I think Tsuki actually created shonen bat, like she created muromi, except shonen bat is running amuk. Perhaps she has some special power...
My theory:
After rewatching the first episode, look carefully at the second attack scene, when they show shonen bat standing in front of Tsuki-chan, muromi-chan (the plushy) is positioned in shonen bat's shadow so that it looks like shonen bat's face.
That's why I think Tsuki actually created shonen bat, like she created muromi, except shonen bat is running amuk. Perhaps she has some special power...
What about the old man? How does he fit into your theory. Or the strange old woman who is always seen by the trash cans and bags.
just watched episode 4.. just when everything was beginning to make sense.. it doesn't anymore. Can't wait for 5
Quarkboy
2004-02-27, 03:50
What about the old man? How does he fit into your theory. Or the strange old woman who is always seen by the trash cans and bags.
Hmm, well it's more of a feeling, but I kindof think that the old man/women are more observational then causal, i.e. they are aware of the strange things going on at some subconsious level but are not the cause. I just feel like Tsuki-chan is somehow the root of everything. Also, the ending seems to support that as well.
Go-lytely
2004-02-27, 12:17
just watched episode 4.. just when everything was beginning to make sense.. it doesn't anymore. Can't wait for 5
Yeah, one hell of a plot twist.
Well the cop frames Shounen Bat and now I have no idea how this is going to turn out.
dreamless
2004-02-28, 16:41
After a so-so (below average quality IMO) Episode 3, Episode 4 is really terrific! I love those switching between the old-time hot-blood superhero manga scenes, absolutely fantastic!
Awesome, as always. And did you see the preview for episode 5? As bizarre as it was, I got my money it's the fatty episode. With the plot twist in episode 4, now is the perfect time to keep the audience in suspense and go back to relook at some earlier attacks.
BTW anyone who saw episode 4, what was the text message in the preview sequence saying? Something like episode 5 won't be airing this week? :(
LinChoiSin
2004-03-04, 18:21
what a great show! each episode is better than the last one .What i really like in this show is that it has a realistic wiew on japanese society besides having a great plot! After seeing the 4 th episode i don't know what to think anymore!
My theory, post episode 4:
That wasn't the real Shounen Bat, but a copycat instead. Notice how in this instance you actually see the bat make contact with the victim, and plus the boy's face wasn't nearly as shadowed as it had been in previous attacks.
The Faction's Lord
2004-03-05, 03:37
A possibility I must admit... however, it's still going by the same links ie. Maria soooo, I'm not sure, although my guess is that shounen bat some how escapes, then again, my mind's probably too logical to come up with what it will be at the end.
Yeah, I was thinking about it more and...
The cop, like all other previous victims, was saved from a conflict, and looks to be in a much better mental state after the attack. Perhaps Shounen Bat intentionally allowed himself to get caught, although it sure looked to me like he wasn't expecting that to happen. o.o
But on the other hand, the old geezer didn't have a drawing in this episode, did he? He's done scribblings in conjunction with all other legitimate attacks, so why not this one as well?
Sagi-chan struck me as particularly aloof in her appearance in this episode. Cute as she is, I think there's something amiss with that gal. I mean, besides the evil talking plushie.
This show thus far is really, really good. Thus far, I'd say Satoshi Kon has a perfect track record.
Finally watched Episode 4. OMG. Satoshi Kon is brilliant..
But because I'm in a very dazed state (after sleeping at 2 and getting up at 6:30 every day for 2 weeks now), I don't get what's going on.
What's with the cop? Who's this.. Hamda guy? And he doesn't actually have a wife and daughter, right... and has this guy got any links to Maria? What are they...
I also somehow think that shounen bat was fake... it just doesn't seem like it... or does it?!? This show is screwing my brain..
By the way, the text in the preview says that The next episode (episode 5), will air 8/3 at midnight...
Hirukawa was one of Maria's clients in episode 3. Handa is a corrupt businessman that Hirukawa was sort of using for kickbacks and uh... free whores.
Handa's "boss" from the Yakuza apparently thought Hirukawa was getting a bit too greedy, or maybe was a bit concerned that Harumi would start talking about her "other life" and her clientele. Either way, Hirukawa owes him.
And uhh... yeah, I see no reason why Hirukawa wouldn't have a family when he repeatedly talks about them, and the private detective who's his friend also mentions them. The fact that they're never actually shown probably shows how detached Hirukawa has become from them.
AkihaTohno
2004-03-06, 17:13
My theory is this...
In the beginning, Tsuki had her purse stolen, and then she described her attacker. From there the story passed around and everyone changed it (One guy said Shonen Bat smiles and then it was added). The story will probably get so big and nasty by the end of the series. But I don't know how the old man and woman would fit in...
And in ep 4, that was probably the real attacker.
I hope someone dies in this series. Maybe Maria.
Quarkboy
2004-03-06, 17:21
My theory is this...
In the beginning, Tsuki had her purse stolen, and then she described her attacker. From there the story passed around and everyone changed it (One guy said Shonen Bat smiles and then it was added). The story will probably get so big and nasty by the end of the series. But I don't know how the old man and woman would fit in...
And in ep 4, that was probably the real attacker.
More outright speculation:
I totally agree... it's as if Shonen bat is only defined by the public's fickle vision of him. In some ways, he might even be a pitiable character, created out of Tsuki's wish to get out of her situation, not knowing why he exists or why his entire purpose is to bash people's heads in with a bat when they're feeling down... Somehow I feel that the person who really wants to know who shonen bat is is.... shonen bat.
AkihaTohno
2004-03-06, 17:49
That's possible Quark...
Another thing, since Tsuki had her purse stolen... they never got it back. The next few "victims" never had anything stolen. BUT, the last guy had all that money, and was an obvious target for anyone. So Shonen Bat could just be a petty thug...
While Tsuki is more creative then she thinks...
I've decided to go to the www.mousou.tv (http://www.mousou.tv/) homepage to go check some things out...
The site is pretty helpful in confusing situations, I think...
I'll type out the Japanese from the site - I can't c+p it because it's in Flash.
The "preview" or synopsis for Episode 5!
通り魔事件の犯人、"少年バット” がついに逮捕された。その正体は中学2年の狐塚誠。早速取り調べを開始する刑事 だが、自らを "聖戦士" と言って憚らない狐塚は、自分の犯行をRPGゲームになぞり語り出す。そして猪狩と馬庭の両刑事も、いつ の問にか狐塚のアチラ側の世界へと連れて行かれ・・・。
The mysterious perpertrator of the strange events, Shounen Bat, was arrested. This was actually a middle-school second year student called Kozuka Makoto*. The criminal case was immediately investigated but, Kozuka, who declares himself a Saint, is not scared. He tells his story and traces his crime back to an RPG game. And then the detectives Ikari and Maniwa go to the Kozuka's world...
*I'm not sure of the exact pronounciation of this, it could be Kitzunezuka Akira or something...
I'm not any good at translating, and the last sentance I'm not so sure how to translate... so... blah. Seems like this is not the real shounen bat? I have no idea... and this is all getting very interesting!
By the way, I watched A-K's version of Episode 3 and great kudos for figuring out the significance of ojii-chan's drawings on the floor!
Sagi Tsukiko - 鷺 (Sagi) which means heron, was the bird.
Kawazu Akio - 川津 (Kawazu) would be his surname, but it sounds exactly like the other reading for frog (kaeru or kawazu 蛙). That's the frog.
Taira Yuuichi - 鯛平 (Taira) where 鯛 would mean a red snapper, a kind of fish.
Ushiyama Shougo - 牛山 (Ushiyama) where 牛 means cow... and even though I didn't see ojii chan drawing a cow, there's something interesting *
Chouno Harumi - 蝶野 (Chouno) where 蝶 means butterfly.
*Isn't it interesting that a. His surname has an animal reference like everyone else and b. he was the only one apparently "not relieved", and also is hte only one not drawn?
Now THAT explains so much! Smart folks at A-K, thank you so much... now we know why the whole butterfly motif... When you think about it, don't almost all of their names really represent them well? Except maybe Taira, then again I don't know much about red snappers...
And to add to that, that preview of Episode 5 mentions this person called 狐塚誠 - surname Kitsunezuka or Kozuka or something like that. And guess what! His surname's got an animal too (狐 - a fox.)... This will be one of the main characters in this episode so let's look closely.
This is getting very interesting, ne?!
More info I can gather from the site:
-There will probably be 8 victims. In the "character" part of the page there are only 3 spaces left... but that doesn't necessarily mean there WILL be 8 victims, just an inference.
-It seems Maromi is important? Maromi gets its own arrow leading from Tsukiko.
-It also seems the old man and old woman are important because they're at the bloody TOP of the page...
-The old woman has a special arrow leading to Shounen Bat, saying "Eyewitness?!". Seems she is very important as the only person who has SEEN Shounen Bat.
There's also a little feature on the site - a kind of "behind the scenes" thing to Mousou Dairinin. Can someone translate this? I'm very interested in hearing what Satoshi Kon and all have to say. Go to the main site, Enter, (a flash window should pop up), click Streaming at the bottom of the window and click WOWOW Special Broadcast - You can't teach.... everything about Mousou Dairinin. It's 9:38 and seems to have been broadcast before the show aired on WOWOW.
There is also a "commentary/explanation" section on the site. They already have 8 instances of it... hm.
Cool thing about the site is you can watch the full versions of eps 1-4 (that's all that's been aired so far I think) for free on it... not subbed of course :P...
*Isn't it interesting that a. His surname has an animal reference like everyone else and b. he was the only one apparently "not relieved", and also is hte only one not drawn?
We don't know for sure about that. Remember, one of the detectives mentioned in episode 3 that "all" victims had a sense of relief to them, implying the fatty kid as well. It's just, well... his back story hasn't been revealed.
So am I correct then, when I earlier said the crow and butterfly that the old man drew reflected Harumi and Maria? I mean... Maria isn't exactly the name of a bird, but hell, there was enough symbolism in that episode to link the two.
Yeah... It seems like the next episode will probably say something about the fatty. It was kind of freaky seeing that red glow around him, as if he was some special alien being...
dreamless
2004-03-07, 06:13
What's with the cop? Who's this.. Hamda guy? And he doesn't actually have a wife and daughter, right... and has this guy got any links to Maria? What are they...
Well, apparently he has a wife and daughter. It's just like everyone else, that this guy has two faces. One of an honest policeman and good father and husband who tends to his family (buy new house, pay daughter's university fee), the other of a corrupt dirty old man. It's actually some exaggerated representation of today's Japanese society I think. And the link between those two faces is the superhero manga he likes to read, so that he can think of himself as sorta a "man of men".
runpsicat
2004-03-07, 08:44
Hi,
I'd like to note that these animal metaphors also make an appearance in the episode previews as well (seemingly gibbrish, but not too much so in retrospect when you apply the metaphors). I was pleasantly surprised that wao had listed the specific associations here about the same time we got around to making a post (http://www.anime-kraze.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3410) about it on our forums (our post is not that much different from what wao wrote; we just also mentioned that Shounen Bat is referred to as "golden fox" in the previews, which should ring a bell now that wao's mentioned a certain name ^_~). I think it would really help to understand the previews if you keep an eye out for animals, so I hope this helps.
Runpsicat
The Faction's Lord
2004-03-07, 17:06
But on the other hand, the old geezer didn't have a drawing in this episode, did he? He's done scribblings in conjunction with all other legitimate attacks, so why not this one as well?
This is going back a ways, but methinks that he didn't draw anything as the attack was not successful, either that or we just don't know. Can't wait for episode 5 though ^_^
Yeah, that's right, runpsicat... dang, that is smart... I liked the preview for ep 4, it's so damn funny just listening to it :) Especially the "the golden fox goes kon" and the "go whoosh on broadband" thing. It's just so cool. (The kon thing especially because my brother used to have this old Hokkaido shirt that said "The North Fox" and on a side it was going "Kon! Kon! Kon!" and I asked him if foxes really went Kon... Satoshi Kon? O_o;;;;;;;;; ) Buroodobando ni "pyaa~" to yute... or something...
Maybe he didn't draw anything because it was a fake...
Am hungering for the next ep. I made the mistake of watching Cosprayers and my brain has been reduced to a pile of squishy mush. I can't believe it... Think smart! Think smart!
Edit: Cool, Shinpei Minami, who was the "creator" of that old-style hot-blooded manga, is actually one of the people in the credits :P I dunno exactly what (too lazy to check it out; still trying to de-mushify brain) but if you will look at 22:57 on #4 by Aone...
Edit2: It seems Ikari, and Maniwa the investigators have animal names too - Ika meaning squid/cuttlefish and Ma meaning horse. ...
Oh, my, Ive just watched episode 5, and it explain sooo much. The kid really is into the game, but it explains why he did everything, as well as the characters name's corsepond to animals. Its to much for me to explain, watch the episode, and youll see soo much. Only problem, it just gets to what is going to happen next, and its over ;.;
-Sulk
AkihaTohno
2004-03-13, 17:14
major cliff hanger ending? I can't wait to see it now! EEEEE!!!! *huddles in fetal position*
EDIT:
I guess we can shoot all our theories right now, the way the show is working now isn't very cool. And the Shonen Bat story as a game character... sure it was funny and the Harumi battle kicked ass... but ...
the next episode looks like it's back to the mysterous ways. so i'll keep watching. And it DID get to a major cliffhanger too. And I think I know who the devil is, Maromi or the old man.
Za Paper
2004-03-13, 22:34
I am glad the show is taking this direction. By throwing everyone off it makes it more interesting for me. There are still lots of unanswered questions and the way the show is going I wont be suprised one bit if we are thrown for another loop.
SParanoisas
2004-03-28, 13:00
Im wondering if Paranoia Agent is licensed in US or not since Animesuki
doesnt list PA.
This link hints that it is but if someone knows more about it I'd like to know.
www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=3169
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/company.php?id=1782
And if, when will the first dvd be released?
AkihaTohno
2004-03-28, 13:22
It's licensed, but i don't know the details.
There's already been threads on the licence and discussion of Paranoia Agent.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=6862&page=1&highlight=paranoia+agent
Geneon USA is credited for producing Paranoia Agent in the end credits.
Assume DVDs wil be out 6-8 months after the series has finished airing in Japan.
I got ten bucks that says volume 1 will be out in time for Halloween 2004.
NoSanninWa
2004-03-31, 06:00
It is licensed. It says Ganeon USA in the credits. Post in Moso Dairinin (Paranoia agent) if you want to talk about it.
Hao Asakura
2004-04-04, 06:30
Just watched ep 6, I just wanna say that I really can't stand that Hirukawa (perverted policeman).
It's still acceptable for me in ep 3 and 4 where he's using Handa to 'get serviced' for free and covering Chouno-sensei's other job as call girl. However, in ep 6 when he told to his wife that it is for his daughter's goodness to have her own room in their new house; in fact he installed a hidden camera in his OWN daughter room to peep her is WAYYYYY too much to be forgiven. What a horny bastard :frustrated:
I thought it was great how this ep connected to that other one with his whole being called "daddy" obsession though... :D
Za Paper
2004-04-05, 00:49
After ep 6 I got to say wow. This show is becoming one of my favorite of all time.
I thought the police officer was using pictures of his daughter and selling them to help pay for the house.
dreamless
2004-04-05, 01:50
watched to episode 7, and I don't know what is happening now... however although I'm really confused, it somehow feels good to be confused by this show :D
The Faction's Lord
2004-04-10, 14:30
I finally got to watchthe english subbed version of episode 5, yay ^_^
It was a very confusing episode indeed.
I got ten bucks that says volume 1 will be out in time for Halloween 2004.
Oh man, am I good or am I good?
Pioneer quick license new (Saturday, April 10th, 2004 @ 01:14 PM EST): We'll take care of the anime first. Dokkoider will be coming out in August. Stellvia will be coming in September. And Satoshi Kon's new TV series Paranoia Agent will be coming out in October.
New CD titles for September include: Eva: Day of Second Impact; ROD TV OST1; FLCL OST2 with the drama track.
I can just imagine... dress up as Shounen Bat on Halloween.... and hit tired office workers when they're not looking.
STill waiting for episode... 7, I believe. 6 was AWESOME. I am desparately wanting 7 NOW.
SwiftStar
2004-04-23, 19:22
Ah yes :) after watching an episode 5 that looked like it was starting to clear up things a bit I am happy to say that after watching ep 6 :frustrated: I am back to not knowing what f*** is going on. Somehow this show makes that a pleasing state though.
Just finished eps 7. Wow! They actually offered an explanation for the caught shonen bat and a suprising twist at the end of the episode. I am shocked! The next episode preview looks kind of disturbing though, an entire family commiting suicide.
yea episode 7 was very powerful. It is also the first murder in the series
Ep 7 is just mad. BRILLIANT stuff. I love it. It's great. You can really see the situation Maniwa and Ika are in. Really... I feel incredibly sorry for them. Especially Maniwa. He really does seem like a nice guy. A young, smart detective who does try to do things the non-traditional way and doesn't let anger easily influence him, unlike Ika. He takes things the more gentle, yet persuasive way... and he does know how to deal with people, thinking about them first before letting his own feelings get in the way. And it works (how he got the old lady to speak up, for example). He doesn't work on a case simply because it's his job. He takes it up with passion but didn't let it completely overtake him (until maybe now...) However, he's really suffering from this case... the expressions that were so well brought across really let you see, in such moments, all his problems and confusion. And that dream seemed very eerily prophetic...
And then you can see how Ika just wants to get his job done. And there isn't anything that wrong with that, he is just a guy who would like to live life without such crazy cases and just wants to wipe has hands off it. Unlike Maniwa who peers into the murky lake for so long to try and see the bottom, that he ends up falling into it... and maybe then he'll hit the bottom...
He just would like to get over and done with it, maybe...
And yeah, the first murder... it's getting darker and more twisted now. \o/
NoSanninWa
2004-04-25, 04:02
I was initially a bit suprised at the announcement that the death was suicide since the two cops both saw Shounen Bat there. Then I stopped and reconsidered. Yeah, sure, like they'd be able to say what they saw. "It was Shounen Bat! He killed our suspect! Why didn't we stop him? Well, he escaped by walking through the wall." Uh, huh. That really wouldn't have gone over well. Despite how open minded Maniwa is, he's smart enough to keep his mouth shut about that.
But I do want to ask, at the end of ep 7,
Was it only Ika who resigned? Or did Maniwa go with him as well?
Well, both of them were packing their stuff, so I'm guessing that both resigned. Pretty sure he wasn't packing his stuff to move to another department or anything.
jennwenn
2004-04-26, 22:56
I love their bad cop-good cop routine too. Classic. :) At first I thought the young cop was a total sleazeball. Well he still is to an extent but he pales in comparison to you know who. Episode 6 was DISTURBING. It really captured how she felt after discovering her dad had installed a camera in her room. I was shocked. Talk about compounding her anxieties about not being daddy's little girl anymore and justifying her fear of her new home, which wasn't a home to her at all. Back when he mentioned his daughter in the earlier episodes, something didn't seem quite right...but what makes people believe he was selling the pics? I interpreted that they were for his own...benefit. (yuck)
As for episode 7
Resign? I thought they were both fired because the suspect died mysteriously on their watch under very unusual circumstances. I thought the suicide thing was made up by their higher-ups to explain the unexplainable, while Maniwa and Ika just end up looking crazy no matter what they say. Also, they weren't supposed to be there at all so it looks suspicious that they show up right before the suspect's "suicide". They're the scapegoats for not "stopping him" or worse, provoking him.
Also, I always thought that scene in the opening with the old man in the suit referred to a conductor leading an orchestra (leading me to believe he's behind the Shonen Bat phenomena somehow), but the latest episode indicates more of a magician role. Hmm, could still work with my theory...
Unanswered question I have:
Who sent out the photo of Ichi bullying the other kid back in the earlier episode?
Oh and another theory: clearly the positioning of the characters in the ending indicates that Maromi (whatever that creepy pink blob is named) is the true centerpiece and mastermind of the whole thing mwahahaha! ;)
Paranoia Agent is a masterpiece. Series like this, and Ghost in the Shell, really reaffirm my faith in anime as a mature, artistic story-telling vehicle. Definite must-buy and rewatch value.
Innotech
2004-04-27, 17:54
Paranoia Agent is a masterpiece. Series like this, and Ghost in the Shell, really reaffirm my faith in anime as a mature, artistic story-telling vehicle. Definite must-buy and rewatch value.
Also Id like to add to that list Haibane Renmei and Kino's Journey. Both shows are definitely for older audiences as they might just bore the hell out of younger people because of their depth and complexity. But I hold both of them high above the rest of anime. Paranoia agent is another Satoshi Kon Masterpiece to add to Millenoum Actress' success.
Za Paper
2004-05-03, 01:42
Ep 8 was pure genius.
I'm not sure how to categorize this show overall, but ep 8 was definitely a dark comedy. I busted out laughing when the one guy suddenly jumped in front of the train before everyone else, but then he doesnt die and says "that hurt more than I thought". Another "what the hell just happened" moment in Paranoia agent.
Were those three people already ghosts??
Quarkboy
2004-05-03, 04:46
Concur. Genius.
Did anyone notice how this whole episode was, in a way, a parody of the director's own work? Compare this ep with his recent movie, Tokyo Godfathers:
In both, there is a makeshift family of three people, a tall gay man, an older gentleman, and a young girl. In the movie, they are trying desperately to save the life of a baby. In this episode, they are trying desperately to kill themselves. It's like a dark parody of his own work. If you haven't seen the movie, it's out on DVD so fans of PA go watch it!
Also, this episode DID serve a purpose in the overall plot of the show: It proves that the fake Shounen Bat ("FOX") _was_ suicidal, and thus Shoenen Bat killing him did fullfill his wish.
dreamless
2004-05-03, 07:50
Anyone think this episode is parody of EVA? It's really funny to watch all those pseudo "human instrumentality" lines here :D
It seems this is now more and more of a parody show, episode 10 was like a parody of the director's own studio and himself :p
jennwenn
2004-05-03, 11:16
Concur. Genius.
Did anyone notice how this whole episode was, in a way, a parody of the director's own work? Compare this ep with his recent movie, Tokyo Godfathers:
In both, there is a makeshift family of three people, a tall gay man, an older gentleman, and a young girl. In the movie, they are trying desperately to save the life of a baby. In this episode, they are trying desperately to kill themselves. It's like a dark parody of his own work. If you haven't seen the movie, it's out on DVD so fans of PA go watch it!
Also, this episode DID serve a purpose in the overall plot of the show: It proves that the fake Shounen Bat ("FOX") _was_ suicidal, and thus Shoenen Bat killing him did fullfill his wish.
Ah! My gosh you're right! I never thought Paranoia Agent would delve into parody, this is so cool! Actually, thinking it over, we could all pick up shades of Perfect Blue in the Maria episode (but not humorous parody) and Millenium Actress was a near-parody with the fake Shonen Bat. Two men trying to understand the delusions of a young boy who is searching for someone he never finds, they enter his story and become characters, can't distinguish truth from fiction, "storyteller" dies. The earlier references to Kon works weren't nearly as funny as this one though. That little girl was hilariously disturbing. "Yay! We're gonna die!" :heh:
What I don't understand is did the three people summon Shonen Bat or did they happen to be in the same building when someone else did? Because if they summoned him, why didn't he attack them? Why did he run away? Deep down, is that what they wanted him to do? Its strange because they want to die, but then there are moments when you feel like they don't really want to go through with it.
Does the real Shonen Bat actually look like the impersonator, or are they just similar and I can't tell the difference? And was this the first case of an attack outside the city? What sort of geographical range does the Shonen Bat phenomena have? (Okay perhaps that's a silly question. :heh: )
Eva parodies?! I must get to the lastest episodes! I wonder if there are any Boogiepop Phantom parodies or references, seeing as its the same scriptwriter... (I do see similar techniques.)
What I don't understand is did the three people summon Shonen Bat or did they happen to be in the same building when someone else did? Because if they summoned him, why didn't he attack them? Why did he run away? Deep down, is that what they wanted him to do? Its strange because they want to die, but then there are moments when you feel like they don't really want to go through with it.
Well, if you check out the scene in the parking lot near the end of the episode. Everything will become clear to you. The old man was in shock not because of his illness but because he notice that the little girl's shadow is gone. In fact, the scene clearly shows that none of them have shadows, signifying that all three of them are already dead. This episode is sort of like the movie the six sense I guess, only a funnier version. This also explain why the peole taking the pictures were shocked.
As for why the Shonen Bat didn't attack them, what would attacking them achieve? They are already dead. Their trouble is actually not knowing that they are dead. By leading them to the parking lot, the Shonen Bat helps them solve their worries. The three of them are happier after the incident with Shonen Bat then before.
jennwenn
2004-05-03, 19:53
Well, if you check out the scene in the parking lot near the end of the episode. Everything will become clear to you. The old man was in shock not because of his illness but because he notice that the little girl's shadow is gone. In fact, the scene clearly shows that none of them have shadows, signifying that all three of them are already dead. This episode is sort of like the movie the six sense I guess, only a funnier version. This also explain why the peole taking the pictures were shocked.
As for why the Shonen Bat didn't attack them, what would attacking them achieve? They are already dead. Their trouble is actually not knowing that they are dead. By leading them to the parking lot, the Shonen Bat helps them solve their worries. The three of them are happier after the incident with Shonen Bat then before.
Ahhhhhhh!!!! *bangs herself on head* That would explain it! No one ever talked to them in this episode. And it also explains the man who jumped in front of the train. That guy was dead when he came back saying "that hurt more than I thought". Zebra saw him because he's dead too, but you can see how confused he is because he doesn't realize it. I'm going to watch it again and see if I missed anything else super crucial.
I wonder if how they died and who they are has any significance to the rest of the story. (Knowing this show, probably.) So dead people/spirits can summon Shonen Bat now too? Is Shonen Bat a ghost or...? Hmm....
Man this is one show that needs discussion to go along with it.
Za Paper
2004-05-03, 20:49
Had to watch the ep 8 again to get what everyone else was saying. A few more question:
The locket after they fell off the cliff. Looks like Zebra and some guy. Does it signifiy anything? Also the vending machine at the end. What did that mean?
NoSanninWa
2004-05-03, 22:56
Had to watch the ep 8 again to get what everyone else was saying. A few more question:
The locket after they fell off the cliff. Looks like Zebra and some guy. Does it signifiy anything? Also the vending machine at the end. What did that mean?
I can't answer as to the significance of the vending machine. That seemed strange to me, but as for the locket... It was there to give us some of Zebra's backstory. Apparently he had a boyfriend. We don't know if his boyfriend left him or he just couldn't deal with the societal and familial pressures from being gay, but that probably has something to do with why he decided to kill himself.
Had to watch the ep 8 again to get what everyone else was saying. A few more question:
Also the vending machine at the end. What did that mean? I was wondering the same thing so I did a double take on it and...still nothing.:confused:
Quarkboy
2004-05-03, 23:31
I was wondering the same thing so I did a double take on it and...still nothing.:confused:
Vending Machine Theory:
The vending machine sold condoms right? My interpretation is that is was a final ironic metaphor: A vending machine emblazend with "Bright Family Plan" whose product's entire purpose was to prevent families from occuring. Just this "family"'s purpose was not to live, but to die. (By this, I am refering more to the family on the internet than when they met in ghost form).
Also, it was my opinion that only the old man didn't realize that they were already dead. It's possible that the entire thing was his hallucination even.
No one ever talked to them in this episode. And it also explains the man who jumped in front of the train. That guy was dead when he came back saying "that hurt more than I thought". Zebra saw him because he's dead too, but you can see how confused he is because he doesn't realize it. I'm going to watch it again and see if I missed anything else super crucial.
I wonder if how they died and who they are has any significance to the rest of the story. (Knowing this show, probably.) So dead people/spirits can summon Shonen Bat now too? Is Shonen Bat a ghost or...? Hmm....
They have shadows while being chased through the park by Kanome. after the building is destroyed they no longer have shadows, that leads me to belive they died there
Za Paper
2004-05-04, 00:39
Vending Machine Theory:
The vending machine sold condoms right? My interpretation is that is was a final ironic metaphor: A vending machine emblazend with "Bright Family Plan" whose product's entire purpose was to prevent families from occuring. Just this "family"'s purpose was not to live, but to die. (By this, I am refering more to the family on the internet than when they met in ghost form).
Also, it was my opinion that only the old man didn't realize that they were already dead. It's possible that the entire thing was his hallucination even.
I did some research and you are right.
Bright Family Plan are condoms. I noticed the katakana was left untranslated on the vending machine. It said "skin" after extra-thin which would make it clearer that they are condoms.
phew.. I'm glad I read this thread because episode 8 had me going wtf. Yea it does make sense with the train thing and all, I bet I wasn't the only one who bust out laughing when the dude jumped in front of the train. Man.. without this thread I would have never got it with the shadows thing. That whole scene made me go wth
I did get the part about them already being dead from that picture thing but the shadow thing went completely over my head. I thought the old guy was having a heart attack or something. I did have a wtf moment after they chugged down all those all those sleeping pills. I was like, "wtf, shouldn't they be dead from those sleeping pills? Oh well, whatever." I totally didn't get it until the end.
dreamless
2004-05-04, 04:43
well, it was also hinted in various other ways, like that "last pill" is always there despite he took it already before. Paranoia Agent is full of this kind of small weird inconsistencies, and looking them out helps a lot in understanding the show ;)
Innotech
2004-05-04, 08:34
Are you guys watching RAWS? <deleted>
Edit by Mod (xris)
What they watch is up to them.... Since the show is licensed, people may not discuss where to find fansubs (if such things exist :uhoh: ) as it would be against the forum rules. This thread may still discuss the series as long as it sticks to just that, discussion of what happens during the episodes.
So, please just ignore what people may be watching, and please don't ask how or where they get their source.
WOW.....I never knew. I was guessing it but I really didn't realize until the end. That train part didn't really click with me until someone mentioned the train scene. I thought that was hilarious. I did notice about the girls and the picture. So the old man was probably fed up with having to live on pills, the gay guy was filling the pressure of have a homosexual relationship and how society views it, while the little girl was the result of an un-planned pregnancy. Makes sense now...
dreamless
2004-05-04, 10:17
WOW.....I never knew. I was guessing it but I really didn't realize until the end. That train part didn't really click with me until someone mentioned the train scene. I thought that was hilarious. I did notice about the girls and the picture. So the old man was probably fed up with having to live on pills, the gay guy was filling the pressure of have a homosexual relationship and how society views it, while the little girl was the result of an un-planned pregnancy. Makes sense now... you got it right with that tall guy and that little girl, but the old man want to take suicide because of huge amount of debt, as shown in the train scene.;)
jennwenn
2004-05-04, 17:05
I love it when the Shonen Bat music starts playing. Its so cool. :) And the singing of London Bridge, suitably creepy yet playful.
Ah so they did die in the empty building, like Gunjin said. When they are camping out there it is the middle of night but the building is torn down suddenly in the day. Time has already passed after they died. And a construction crew would always check the building before tearing it down as routine procedure. :p And the crows at the end, the harbinger of death.
After the Sixth Sense, I didn't think anyone would be able to pull off the already-dead technique without it being obvious to the audience, but boy was I wrong! I didn't even notice!
I don't understand Shonen Bat's true purpose in this episode. Did he come for them or for the man he beat up in the hallway? He seems suprised to see them, so was it his original intention to lead them to the parking lot? Was the attacked man not real and his surprise all an act? I hope this will become clear in a retelling of the scene from someone else's point of view.
Also, do the women in the stairwell see Shonen Bat or not? They stop and turn their heads but don't scream. Surely they'd know who he was or chase after him? Who can and cannot see Shonen Bat?
you got it right with that tall guy and that little girl, but the old man want to take suicide because of huge amount of debt, as shown in the train scene.;)Ahhh....thank you for clearing that up for me. I thought that I had it. I wasn't sure about that person.
... while the little girl was the result of an un-planned pregnancy.
Where was this part from? I missed that.
Where was this part from? I missed that. At the very end of the episode. the vending machine is one for condoms (someone brought that up) so you just put that together with why a little girl would want to kill herself. Her parents most likely had a "tear" and then she popped out. They didn't want her to begin with so they probably mistreated her. That's all speculation but that's what I think. Got it!! I might rewatch this episode again so I can really pay attention to what's going on.
jennwenn
2004-05-04, 22:35
At the very end of the episode. the vending machine is one for condoms (someone brought that up) so you just put that together with why a little girl would want to kill herself. Her parents most likely had a "tear" and then she popped out. They didn't want her to begin with so they probably mistreated her. That's all speculation but that's what I think. Got it!! I might rewatch this episode again so I can really pay attention to what's going on.
I don't know, I don't think so. I interpreted the condom dispenser as a metaphor like Quarkboy said, not as an explanation for the girl's problems. (The irony of this episode's "family" and that of the condoms, meant to prevent families not create them.)
I'm sure the girl had some reason to act this way in the episode, but she sure seemed happy-go-lucky for an abused child...
The title of the episode is "Bright Family Plan", check the preview for episode 8 at the end of episode 7.
EDIT - But watch the opening again. There's a woman who looks a lot like the little girl standing in front of rubble...Could it be her mother? Single parent? Or have we seen this woman before and I've forgotten....?
I don't know, I don't think so. I interpreted the condom dispenser as a metaphor like Quarkboy said, not as an explanation for the girl's problems. (The irony of this episode's "family" and that of the condoms, meant to prevent families not create them.)
I'm sure the girl had some reason to act this way in the episode, but she sure seemed happy-go-lucky for an abused child...
The title of the episode is "Bright Family Plan", check the preview for episode 8 at the end of episode 7.
Ok...so what's her role in the whole thing since she's the only one I'm having problems with?
does that mean that the girl died somewhere else? because the two men did the drugs and inhaled the smoke, then when they woke up she was there and in that same scene the building started to get torn down.
Also I thought the old dude wanted to die because of his constant taking of drugs?
NoSanninWa
2004-05-06, 00:30
does that mean that the girl died somewhere else? because the two men did the drugs and inhaled the smoke, then when they woke up she was there and in that same scene the building started to get torn down.
Also I thought the old dude wanted to die because of his constant taking of drugs?
She was following them to that building. I figure that after they fell asleep she snuck in and shared their carbon monoxide and sleeping pills. She then died next to them
schonberg
2004-05-06, 07:32
After watching ep. 8 at second time, I have a small question. I didn't read everyone's post completely , so maybe it had been replyed...
Zebra was dead after suicide with CO and sleeping pills. Then He has no shadow obviously in following scenes. And according to the final scene of girls getting photos, the principle in this scenairo is that (almost) live people can't see the ghost by eye directly.
Now my question is why the bicycle rider rings for warning while she is passing these three people after the scene of CO and sleeping pills suicide. That seems to mean that there is ar least one living person in them, fuyubachi or kamome.
Actually it is interesting that the state that fuyubachi has shadow no more is emphasised until last scenes. And at the scene of taking train to rural area, you can actually find the shadow of fuyubachi's clothes when his body is inclined. I doubt that he is dead until this scene.
Basically, I still think the perspective that these three have been dead after suicide with CO is most reasonable. But I still wonder some tricks in this ep. that may just use to make ppl like me to confuse.
After watching ep. 8 at second time, I have a small question. I didn't read everyone's post completely , so maybe it had been replyed...
Zebra was dead after suicide with CO and sleeping pills. Then He has no shadow obviously in following scenes. And according to the final scene of girls getting photos, the principle in this scenairo is that (almost) live people can't see the ghost by eye directly.
Now my question is why the bicycle rider rings for warning while she is passing these three people after the scene of CO and sleeping pills suicide. That seems to mean that there is ar least one living person in them, fuyubachi or kamome.
Actually it is interesting that the state that fuyubachi has shadow no more is emphasised until last scenes. And at the scene of taking train to rural area, you can actually find the shadow of fuyubachi's clothes when his body is inclined. I doubt that he is dead until this scene.
Basically, I still think the perspective that these three have been dead after suicide with CO is most reasonable. But I still wonder some tricks in this ep. that may just use to make ppl like me to confuse.
well they do have a shadow on their clothes of their heads when they are watching the aftermath of the guy who jumped in front of the train, but all three don't have a shadow on the floor as they are leaving when everyone else does.
Also the old dude realizes he is probably dead in the bath scene and he also gets it later in the parking lot.
The interesting thing was shonen bat had a shadow lol so he must be real
I also noticed that the crows have been following them the whole time
dreamless
2004-05-06, 14:30
I think she died earlier, at that bridge. she shouted at the guys on that bridge, but got left behind, so she thought that she got left out again, and took suicide (there's a safety sign on that bridge hinting at it). Also later she suddenly appeared outside of that house is an indication that she's already dead I think. If she was still alive, it's hard to explain how she found out that house.
jennwenn
2004-05-06, 16:38
Ok...so what's her role in the whole thing since she's the only one I'm having problems with?
I don't think there's enough to say exactly why all the characters wanted to die. Everything would be speculation, so your guess is as good as mine. Zebra, for example, might have killed himself because his boyfriend left him, his boyfriend died, he couldn't handle society's attitude towards his homosexuality, anything. The old man might just have been tired of being alone, having no money, didn't want to die slowly and painfully. The same with the little girl. She seemd fascinated with the idea of death and cheerful about it. Maybe she was an orphan, maybe her parents work all the time and she is a latchkey kid with no supervision, maybe she's just a normal kid who is bored and has lots of energy. We know she doesn't like being alone, but that's about it.
I hope later episodes provide more insight into their decisions, but if not then its whatever we want to think their motivations are.
As for when the girl
died, if she died at the bridge it would also mean her phone call to them was well-timed. She called them right after they inhaled and took the pills. Right after they also died.
Good lord.... that... is scary....
Dead people phoning each other, and those eerie cuts to online chats. Shocking.
tsurumaru
2004-05-08, 21:36
Hi all, just started watching this great series am now up to speed with EP 8 but have a question for you:
People have mentioned that the dead trio summon Shounen Bat, but having watched the sequence with his arrival doesn't it look like he is there to injure some other guest(in the corridor)? It seems to be only an accident that his bat tears the wall to the trio's room, once he see's them he seems to recognise they are in trouble and advances towards them but then either realises he cannot help them (as they are already dead) or is scared off by the fact they are glad to see him (whereas all the other "victims" although looking for a solution to their situation seem to view Shounen Bat with fear)
Hmm any further thoughts, anyone?
schonberg
2004-05-09, 07:59
Hi all, just started watching this great series am now up to speed with EP 8 but have a question for you:
People have mentioned that the dead trio summon Shounen Bat, but having watched the sequence with his arrival doesn't it look like he is there to injure some other guest(in the corridor)? It seems to be only an accident that his bat tears the wall to the trio's room, once he see's them he seems to recognise they are in trouble and advances towards them but then either realises he cannot help them (as they are already dead) or is scared off by the fact they are glad to see him (whereas all the other "victims" although looking for a solution to their situation seem to view Shounen Bat with fear)
Hmm any further thoughts, anyone?
I think that Shounen Bat in ep 8 is just another copy cat. He is a living person, and you can find that he has shadow in following chasing scenes. Although it's suspected that he really looks like the Fox who is dead in the jail, he doesn't have the snaggletooths that Fox has. About why this copy cat becomes so scared later, I guess that maybe he finds out that those three don't have shadows.
I think that Shounen Bat in ep 8 is just another copy cat. He is a living person, and you can find that he has shadow in following chasing scenes. Although it's suspected that he really looks like the Fox who is dead in the jail, he doesn't have the snaggletooths that Fox has. About why this copy cat becomes so scared later, I guess that maybe he finds out that those three don't have shadows.
well that's debatable. if he's a copy cat and he is living he shouldn't be able to see dead people right? on the other hand he has a shadow. Since he can see dead people I think he just realized he couldn't do anything for them. That was probably the real shonenbat since he can see dead and living things. It would also explain why the maids turned their heads when he was coming down the stairs
dreamless
2004-05-09, 18:03
well that's debatable. if he's a copy cat and he is living he shouldn't be able to see dead people right? on the other hand he has a shadow. Since he can see dead people I think he just realized he couldn't do anything for them. That was probably the real shonenbat since he can see dead and living things. It would also explain why the maids turned their heads when he was coming down the stairs
Actually, I think he didn't see those dead people, he just saw the door open by itself and heard them, and that's why he's so scared.
tsurumaru
2004-05-09, 19:50
Damn this is a good series, Its making me think really hard.
Ok I have come to the conclusion that episode 8 is a big red herring in terms of the ongoing storyline.
Based on the fact these three dont appear in the anime OP or ED I'm gonna go with the premise they aren't Shounen Bat "Victims" as such.
From what I can tell Fuyubachi may already be dead at the beginning of the episode (he has probably been suffering from some sort of chronic and painful condition - hence the pills, this condition being his motivation for suicide).
But I'd say it was more likely the theory that they all die in the wrecked house together is correct. (As the crows only appear after this event).
I dont think the other two (Zebra and Kaemone-chan) were the "delusion" Fuyubachi was talking about, but rather that all their existances were the delusion, (the fact that life continued as usual for them without them realising they were dead) ultimately they did not want to be alone, even in death.
Ok now if I've got this right, they were posting messages in the chatroom on the 23rd and 30th of September (23rd had Fox-kun or Fake Shounen Bat present) we also know that on the 30th they decided to end it all together in Autumn and that on the 2nd of October only "Horse" is present (Possibly Maniwa???). Therefore we can say that they probably chose the 1st of October (not long after Fake Shounen Bat was killed).
Summing up, the only "Helpful" bits of this episode directly relevant to the ongoing plot are the fact that Fake Shounen Bat was suicidal, Real Shounen Bat is still around (whether he is a person or manifestation of some sort I'm not sure), and also that Real Shounen Bat can see the dead, he definitely see's the three as he starts to approach them raising his bat (sensing the fact they still have the "cornered person" mindset).
I have to say I also agree with Quarkboy that Sagi Tsukiko is very suspicious (why does Marumi still speak to her after her attack by Shounen Bat (denoting continued mental disorders)............not a good sign).
Also can we tie in the whole 1st episode opening about people in general absolving themselves from their personal responsibilities into the story? Could shounen bat be a physical manifestation of this aspect of modern society (whose form is chosen by the frankly rather sinister Sagi-chan)?
What do others think?
What a great series though! :)
Quarkboy
2004-05-20, 04:32
Episode 9... another episode where nothing really happens... (could this be considered a spoiler?) but damn good none the less.
A little something I noticed: In the final shot, the shape of the apartment buildings spell "ETC" i.e. etcetera... sort of sums up this episode.
The next ep preview looks like it might give some Maromi backstory; Can't Wait!
tsurumaru
2004-05-21, 08:48
The next ep preview looks like it might give some Maromi backstory; Can't Wait!
I too am intrigued about the origins of the face of true evil!! :p
Actually Shounen Bat appears to have passed out of the realm of Urban Legend and into the realm of Phenomina in this episode. Peoples willingness to attribute events to Shounen Bat seem to link into the denial of responsibility we saw in episode one ie "Its not my fault, it must be down to Shounen Bat".
Hmm interesting.....
PS
Do you think the kid with the bat in the next episode could be the real Shounen Bat? Obviously painted in a candy sort of perpective (and possibly before actually becoming Shounen Bat)
looking back, I think eps 8 and 9 fillers to portray shonen bat's urban legend status. Some of the stories in 9 were just ridicilous a few of them had me laughing. It also seems that everyone now knows he appears to whack people who are under a lot of stress
Za Paper
2004-05-21, 19:15
The lady, who no one believed, had the best stories. The ultrasound of shounen bat in the womb was the best.
jennwenn
2004-05-22, 15:00
The lady, who no one believed, had the best stories. The ultrasound of shounen bat in the womb was the best.
Yeah, the stories were hilarious and/or creepy! I really like the story about the boy who studied so hard he coughed up facts. Talk about bizarre! The story about the sick girl and her boyfriend who painted the leaf on the wall, was the women trying to say that was obviously a famous novel?
We've seen the bitchy, gossipy houewives before in various episodes. They were pretty funny. I feel like I've seen similar characters in other Satoshi Kon works, but I can't remember now where...I was reminded of Rumic Theatre, where Rumiko Takahashi also tackles neighborhood gossip and horror/comedy.
It was an interesting "story within a story" technique to see Shonen Bat, the subject of urban myths the women share, appear in the story of the episode, relatively "real" life. So cool. Its as if Shonen Bat has gained a power that's gone beyond his control as the public spread his story and "see" him everywhere.
Their gossip ritual ("promise not to tell") was hilarious.
So, do you think
The woman's husband was attacked because he felt like he didn't have enough stories/under pressure or because his wife felt she needed to fit in and "willed" Shonen Bat to attack her husband?
At first I felt sorry for the new wife trying to fit in. They turned her into a needy, gossip-greedy monster! The look on her face when her husband was attacked. How horrible. It reminded me of people watching the news desperate for details of some grisly kidnapping/murder/crime. Very disturbing.
I wonder how this episode and the previous one will tie together? Episode 13 just aired, soon all will be revealed!
jennwenn
2004-05-22, 15:06
A little something I noticed: In the final shot, the shape of the apartment buildings spell "ETC" i.e. etcetera... sort of sums up this episode.
Oh yeah! Was that the title of this episode? Looking back, does every episode end with a visual representation of the episode title? I can't remember now! This is definitely a watch-several-times type of anime. Wow.
Another thought:
I like how the character designs in this series aren't so much character designs but caricatures, with exaggerated physical features that indicate personality. Someone could write a thesis analyzing this series!
NoSanninWa
2004-05-23, 04:30
Actually most of them look a lot like the animals that are their namesakes.
Yes! It was just brilliance, I swear, the character development even for one-episode characters is so cool...
About the guy throwing up those things, it strikes a familiar chord here, because like in Japan, there is a similar phenomena among students to excel greatly in academic tests and spend much of your life gorging down facts and then mindlessly regurgitating them, without actually understanding. I know, because in primary school, thats what you were expected to do, and I sure had to stand quite a bit for not doing such things...
But I must say, this is just amazing. You know, when that "bat" was on his forehead... I SERIOUSLY don't know how to describe how I felt. It was a mixture of awe, shock, reflection, "wow, interesting, that's VERY interesting"ness, and a whole bunch of other things together.
Isn't it so nifty? Throwing up a "pi r^2" on the floor.
BTW, NoSanninWa's kind of hit it. The only one who I can think of who doesn't fit would probably be Taira Yuuichi... he doesn't look that much like a fish.
I still say this show is one of the best things ever. Bless you, O Creators Of Wonderful Anime Like This.
jennwenn
2004-05-23, 11:10
Actually most of them look a lot like the animals that are their namesakes.
The animals that form the kanji in their names all indicate something about their character personality as well. Sagi Tsukiko, for example, exudes a dopey, low confidence, startled look. (And she looks tall and thin like a stork.) I'd have to do more research into what qualities the animals connote in Japan, but I'm sure there's more to it.
The carp in Taira Yuichi is usually the symbol for healthy, prosperous boys which is why the Japanese put up carp flags on Children's Day. Taira Yuichi is, of course, the prosperous, popular kid. That's the only one I can think of off the top of my head...
I love how this show works on so many levels.
Youko Recca
2004-05-23, 11:28
Episode nine once again renforced the Shonen Bat will help you theory. I'm starting to think that him "helping" people isn't really...positive in the long run. Something bad always comes out of when he does what he does, gets me asking just exactly what is that fool's purpose. I love this show deeply man.
tsurumaru
2004-06-07, 19:36
Episode nine once again renforced the Shonen Bat will help you theory. I'm starting to think that him "helping" people isn't really...positive in the long run. Something bad always comes out of when he does what he does, gets me asking just exactly what is that fool's purpose. I love this show deeply man.
Episode 10..............Crazy!
I guess it didnt progress the plot a whole lot but I actually found the whole Anime series production quite interesting and informative.
Hmm why does Shounen bat have it in for Maromi? He definitely didn't appear to be helping the anime production crew, it was more like wholesale slaughter!!! :p
Also it was interesting that the "Saru" character had major denial of responsibility issues just like all those people in the series intro.
Quarkboy
2004-06-07, 22:20
Episode 10..............Crazy!
I guess it didnt progress the plot a whole lot but I actually found the whole Anime series production quite interesting and informative.
Hmm why does Shounen bat have it in for Maromi? He definitely didn't appear to be helping the anime production crew, it was more like wholesale slaughter!!! :p
Also it was interesting that the "Saru" character had major denial of responsibility issues just like all those people in the series intro.
Actually, I don't think those attacks were Shounen bat at all...
I think all of the attacks on the Maromi show's staff were done by Saru (just like the last one was depicted). Evidance for this: 1. None of the attacks on the staff were actually shown on screen at all. So far in the show, every REAL shoenen bat attack has been shown (I think). 2. Saru seemed pretty nuts to begin with, I don't believe that Shoenen bat would attack the Maromi staff to drive him into a corner, it's not in his M.O. He relieves pressure, he doesn't create it.
You might think that Saru's discovering of the animator slumped over the desk contradicts this, but I think since most of this episode was him flashbacking, he had convinced himself that was what had happened. It was only later when he realizes what he had actually done and admits it to himself.
jennwenn
2004-06-08, 00:23
I have no clue what just happened in episode 10, but I really liked it. :p
OMG! Maromi-chan the anime! Ahhhhhh!!!!!! And the golden bat, heh. Cute, yet soooo creepy.
Saruto is like the Animation Runner Kurumi-chan from hell. :heh: When he folded that background painting, even I cringed. What an idiot. I love it when he's talking to himself. "I am invincable!" He's an anime studio's worst nightmare.
Also liked the scene with the Maromi pillows. The studio looked like Night of the Living Dead, and the guy was so perky.
Maromi-chan the Narrator: "There aren't many females in the anime industry, so even if you are a bit cute you can be an idol!"
Er, what? Okay...
I also liked the Oda Nobunaga joke. ("Who does he think he is, a warlord or something.")
And the opening theme on the radio!
My all time favorite point of this episode: How everyone is dropping dead left and right and at the end everyone is just like "oh my god! Quick, get the video!" Talk about putting sweat and blood into your work. :)
I guess the question is, does somebody, aside from the monkey guy, want the Maromi-chan anime to fail? *Da da dun!*
Actually, I don't think those attacks were Shounen bat at all...
I think all of the attacks on the Maromi show's staff were done by Saru (just like the last one was depicted). Evidance for this: 1. None of the attacks on the staff were actually shown on screen at all. So far in the show, every REAL shoenen bat attack has been shown (I think). 2. Saru seemed pretty nuts to begin with, I don't believe that Shoenen bat would attack the Maromi staff to drive him into a corner, it's not in his M.O. He relieves pressure, he doesn't create it.
You might think that Saru's discovering of the animator slumped over the desk contradicts this, but I think since most of this episode was him flashbacking, he had convinced himself that was what had happened. It was only later when he realizes what he had actually done and admits it to himself.
hrm but didn't all these people who were whacked happen to be under enormous stress? Every character seemed to have a ton of work or some impossible deadline to reach because monkey boy was clumsy and stupid. Monkey boy didn't really have any reason to whack the others except for the guy who they showed him kill. The ending where it goes "take a break" repeatedly also seems to suggest people under stress take it easy instead of pushing themselves to the edge
Another example to add on to jennwenn's post would be Ushiyama Shougo... Ushi being cow, and he certainly looks very fat and cowlike...
And for Kawazu, he has the pouty lips and shape of a frog...
And for Hirukawa, I dunno, he doesn't NOT look like a leech... though Kawazu leeches off people more than Hirukawa to me..
Chouno(Dammit, keep thinking of one of my favourite characters in 20CB >_>)... Chouno Harumi is also butterfly-like, constantly flying back and forth between her alternate personalities. She is quite pretty, like a butterfly as well... but also a bit fragile.
I'm sure everyone can see the cool pattern for themselves...
And episode 10 was absolutely MAD. The fact that Shounen Bat is probably a phenomenon created by the media was VERY much reinstated by that scene when Saruta turns on the radio, the people on the radio start talking about Shounen Bat... and then Shounen Bat appears to him - but when he turns off the radio, Shounen Bat seems to disappear. THen you see that Shounen Bat, because of media propogation, also arises due to paranoia... Saruta, being extremely scared at what he saw, probably started coming up with all these possibly scary things in his mind, and then Shounen Bat appeared later again and again...
Saruta is interesting in how he is something like a Shounen Bat disciple... SHounen Bat no longer has to do the killings himself, now Saruta can do it for him. A case of "monkey see monkey do"? (And here we go, another animal reference: Saruta being the monkey...)Saruta carries out Shounen Bat's job, but he himself is afflicted by Shounen Bat. Causing great stress by being lazy, and causing individual relief but still greater stress by murdering his coworkers... And then being relieved of his own great stress.
I really liked how they made the setting an anime studio. It's very relevant, and anime studios are frequently known to be great stress-centers... Don't they all need a break?
tsurumaru
2004-06-08, 04:49
Actually, I don't think those attacks were Shounen bat at all...
I think all of the attacks on the Maromi show's staff were done by Saru (just like the last one was depicted). Evidance for this: 1. None of the attacks on the staff were actually shown on screen at all. So far in the show, every REAL shoenen bat attack has been shown (I think). 2. Saru seemed pretty nuts to begin with, I don't believe that Shoenen bat would attack the Maromi staff to drive him into a corner, it's not in his M.O. He relieves pressure, he doesn't create it.
You might think that Saru's discovering of the animator slumped over the desk contradicts this, but I think since most of this episode was him flashbacking, he had convinced himself that was what had happened. It was only later when he realizes what he had actually done and admits it to himself.
Doh! I just realised this (goes to show you shouldn't watch complex anime late at night).
Yes I can even remember now the final victim at the studio (the one who bullied Saruta) the person who swung the bat at him was not Shounen Bat at all now things are much clearer!
Also next week looks like Maniwa and his colleague are back, it will be interesting to see how they are coping, anyone else thinking this series could have a seriously dark ending for our protagenists?? :twitch:
Quarkboy
2004-06-08, 06:54
I just had a vision: This is the final scene of Paranoia Agent
All the charaters from the series are sitting in a circle, indian-style, holding hands. Maromi is in the center of the circle. Meanwhile Shounen-bat is blading around the circle, tapping each person on the head with his bat saying "Duck". After he goes around a few times, he heads straight for the camera, swinging hard and screaming "Goose!", -cut to black.
OK, so that was fiction (I know the 13'th episode has already aired....), but wouldn't that be so awesome.
dreamless
2004-06-22, 21:32
just finished the series... all I can say is.... this is at least at the same level of End of Eva... absolutely crazy! I feel really dizzy now... I need to rewatch the earlier episodes to get a better understanding of the whole picture... @_@
Several things went through my mind while I was watching 12 and 13
"Woah"
"huh?"
"WTF??"
etc >_<
just finished the series... all I can say is.... this is at least at the same level of End of Eva... absolutely crazy! I feel really dizzy now... I need to rewatch the earlier episodes to get a better understanding of the whole picture... @_@
Episode 12 has been subbed, and I'm quite amazed. This is truly getting to be a very scary, large-scale issue. And I'm quite confused too - when everything on its own was so difficult to understand, putting them all together is just mind-boggling. But it's a brilliant episode. Very, very good. Very.
Apparently the whole thing about Maromi, the bat and all of that, comes from Tsukiko's past. As a small child she had a dog called Maromi, and I think somebody killed it. She was so angry that she decided to take revenge on the dog with this baseball bat, to hit whoever was responsible for this. So now we tie in three large things: Maromi, Shounen Bat and responsibility. Sagi herself hasn't been taking enough responsibility for the new designs, and that Maromi (Oh GOD. Maromi is ABSOLUTELY EVIL. *EVIL*. ***EVIL***.) makes her listen to her so much... What is Sagi going to do when she finds out she's responsible for the only other creation, Shounen Bat?
Oh, and Maniwa has really gotten trapped in this whole game-thing - but only on the surface. Deep down he knows what to do, and has been following the right paths. Oh, the poor poor guy...
Yes, anyway, Maromi is indescribably evil.
tsurumaru
2004-07-07, 10:28
Yes, anyway, Maromi is indescribably evil.
Fantastic Series, along with GITS SAC this will go on my shopping list whenever it is released over here.
As for Maromi, at first I agreed with you but now I'm not entirely so sure:
I think that although Maromi and Shounen Bat are the "same" they are actually flipsides of the same phenomenom, that is imagination used as a means of escape from reality. Tsukiko obviously lived a life greatly detatched from reality she could not accept responsibility for her own actions and part of her psyche became Shounen Bat bringing retribution to a person cornered by their situation (sagi-san at first, but then later others in the same situation as the power invested in a delusion grew).
Maromi was created in much the same way but to protect Sagi-san from the responsibility by further divorcing her from reality, this "protection" could in some ways been seen as a useful trait as many people need support when facing emotionally tough times. However the crux of the problem is that this divorcing from reality just created more problems for Sagi-san in the long run (and allowed Shounen Bat to continue to exist) she just seems to be putting off the inevitable and others are suffering in the meantime (so you could says that Maromi is not especially helpful in this sense! :p )
I think she needs to face up to what she did and accept it in which way she could hopefully banish Shounen Bat and Maromi and relate to others (like her father).
Otherwise I think someone else might put her out of her misery and end it all!
Anyway I haven't seen the raws and am eagerly awaiting the final episode! :)
dreamless
2004-07-07, 17:49
I can't really decide whether the "shounen bat cataclysm" at the end of the series is real or just paranoia/imagination. Is there anything supernatural involved or not?
Ahh...I'm finally up-to-date on the series. I'm greatly enjoying it like always. I'm loving the fact that it's all piecing together. Ep 11 was funny as hell. Shounen Bat couldn't do anything to Mrs. Ikari b/c she didn't feel cornered. He was losing it and getting completely impatient like a little kid. I knew that this was going to be a good series to watch. Hope it finishes strong by answering some questions but still leaving us wanting more.
tsurumaru
2004-07-08, 05:39
I can't really decide whether the "shounen bat cataclysm" at the end of the series is real or just paranoia/imagination. Is there anything supernatural involved or not?
I haven't seen the last episode yet but I'm assuming you are referring to the people being engulfed by the "blackness" in the next episode section of EP 12. I'm pretty sure that this is a representation of despair (whether or not an actual physical one yet I'm not sure remember this series heavily treads into the boundaries of peoples delusions!). Peoples imaginations have a beneficial role to play too!
I haven't seen the last episode yet but I'm assuming you are referring to the people being engulfed by the "blackness" in the next episode section of EP 12. I'm pretty sure that this is a representation of despair (whether or not an actual physical one yet I'm not sure remember this series heavily treads into the boundaries of peoples delusions!). Peoples imaginations have a beneficial role to play too!
AURWSFLSH!!! Maromi is EVIL! She may seem like she's helping Sagi in the short run but she's being completely inconsiderate and... EVIL!
Plus, her voice just reeks of evil. UUuuuaagh.
tsurumaru
2004-07-08, 10:28
AURWSFLSH!!! Maromi is EVIL! She may seem like she's helping Sagi in the short run but she's being completely inconsiderate and... EVIL!
Plus, her voice just reeks of evil. UUuuuaagh.
LOL I have no idea if AURWSFLSH is actually a acronym or something :heh: :D
Yes I do know what you mean though MAromi has the whole EVIL Ningyou deal going on :p
I'm just not sure yet if Maromi and her "Circle of Peace" is ultimately a bad thing or not "The best intentions..." and all that. ;)
I watched episode 13.... and... well...
I have no bloody idea. No, no, and no.
I'm lost for words.
But it is such a masterpiece, yes...
And now we have to take each stepping stone, like Maniwa-who-has-become-an-old-man says, and put it together, and it comes around, and around, and around.
I don't know... I just don't know.... I have no sanity left...
Quarkboy
2004-07-11, 04:50
I apologize for the long post.
My theory:
After rewatching the first episode, look carefully at the second attack scene, when they show shonen bat standing in front of Tsuki-chan, muromi-chan (the plushy) is positioned in shonen bat's shadow so that it looks like shonen bat's face.
That's why I think Tsuki actually created shonen bat, like she created muromi, except shonen bat is running amuk. Perhaps she has some special power...
...it's as if Shonen bat is only defined by the public's fickle vision of him. In some ways, he might even be a pitiable character, created out of Tsuki's wish to get out of her situation.
I know it's bad form to reply to one's own posts...
But I'd just like to point out that I was totally right on the money with this guess I made after only watching 3 episodes.
My thoughts on the ending: Not as insane as some might think. Over the top yes, but illogical no. The only thing I would have liked to be explained more was why Tsukiko had this amazing ability to manifest her feelings as objects. At what point exactly did Maromi go from fond childhood memory to living ningyou?
Questions: Does anyone have any ideas of the significance of the doll-making guy and his dolls (or the other way around, from the dolls perspective)? It somehow seemed like he was planned for a larger role but squeezed out due to time constraints. The whole thing with them helping "Radar Man" was cute, but seemed out of context somehow... what did it represent?
Who was the old woman who was always collecting trash? If we remember, she was the only witness to Tsukiko's first attack, but she was washed down the river during the tsunami... Are we to expect she somehow survived that? Or was when Tsukiko saw her only an illusion? Was she some conterpart to the Sage in metaphorical signifacance or was her character purely there for plot purposes?
Here's my biggest question: If Shounen Bat was initially created by Tsukiko, as well as Maromi, why was only Shoenen bat changed and morphed by popular opinion? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both aparitions? Or maybe that very fact was what made Maromi such a success: Everyone thinks Maromi is cute so Maromi becomes cute so everyone thinks Maromi is super-cute so Maromi becomes super-cute so.... and on and on.
I am also a little concerned about the mixed message the anime sent on the primary point: Is it better to have your problems solved by circumstance, or to deal with them on your own? I thought that the whole point of episode 10 was to demostrate the latter, but in the final episode we see two contradictory flashes: 1. We see a shot of the schizophrenic teacher as her alter ego once again, implying that Shoenen bat's quick fix was only temporary... i.e. her problem can't be so easily solved. (Quick question: Was the man she was with her husband, or just a "client"... I can't remember) 2. We have a longer shot of "Daddy" passing by his daughter, and she seems happy and doesn't recognize him (presumambly because the amnesia caused by Shounen bat was permanent). This kind of implies that her situation IS better off due to Shoenen bat's intervention.
Are we supposed to believe that Shoenen bat was actually justified for his actions in that case? That she made the right decision by calling him? Hmmmm.
Some things to look for in the last episode on a second viewing: Pay careful attention to the short clips you see of the secondary characters from the show, some of them reveal further developments/connections in their stories.
dreamless
2004-07-11, 05:46
currently I see at least two theories about the ending 1. people's paranoia and delusion fueled the Shounen Bat, a supernatural phenomenon which was created by Tsukiko, to let the imagination invade and almost destroy reality. It showed that in the modern world all those people are so stressed and tried to escape reality into the imagination, which becomes Shounen Bat's nutrition to grow larger and more powerful each day.
2. the whole thing is just people's imagination interacting with reality, the final episode showing Shounen Bat engulfing everyone is just to show that Maromi has become a spiritual idol for people through various media and propaganda, and all those people try to get Maromi to escape reality, end up fighting and destroying the city due to the lack of Maromi supply
Maybe it's a discreet call to otakus to stop wallowing in fictionous, ad-hoc relief. :O!
A lot of this is also based on responsibility. What grew from a child's unwillingness to take responsibility (and also could have come across because of her exclusion from society... that might just be another theme.), extends and extends into other people's unwillingness and feeds on the other sign of it - slavishly clinging onto ad-hoc relief in order to forget about the responsibility.
I feel so bad writing that... I deserve to be swallowed by Shounen bat :\
tsurumaru
2004-07-20, 12:05
Fantastic! Absolutely brilliant! Such a great series, and thanks to you guys for sharing the journey with me. As a gift to fellow fans here is something I think you'll find interesting that I found:
http://www.teslakite.com/freemp3s/
The top two sections contain free downloadable tracks that didn't make it into the Final Paranoia Agent OST, they have been provided by the composer Susumu Hirasawa for free download and are therefore not Warez. Therefore download to your hearts content :).
I'm just started watching this and on episode 2 now. Lol Ichi just crack me up, I cannot believe he's only an elementary school kid. :heh:
And Maromi is so cute. ^^
dreamless
2004-07-21, 09:50
Maromi is cute and EVIL!!!! :D
the second episode is definitely some of the best... and I think it's eeriely realistic... I do remember back in the elementary school when I lost in the class rep vote... oh well XD
Maromi is cute and EVIL!!!! :D
the second episode is definitely some of the best... and I think it's eeriely realistic... I do remember back in the elementary school when I lost in the class rep vote... oh well XD
Quick Maromi Avatar. http://img47.exs.cx/img47/7595/Maromi21.gif ^^
Lol Ichi is a fun character to watch.
http://img26.exs.cx/img26/567/Para21.jpg
I was laughing so hard when he said oasis for my heart. XD
Did he got smack for real in the end of that episode? ^^
Lol this show is on crack. XD
I didn't expect the Shounen Bat to be captured in episode 4 already, that was a surprising plot twist. ^^ I tought he was something like Maromi and just cannot be explained. :heh:
And OMG Episode 5 is even more hilarious, I was like going wooooooow :0 and cannot stop laughing how it was all make sense acording to the book. :heh:
http://img18.exs.cx/img18/9452/Para51.jpgThis is a really cool series. ^^
About episode 8, Maybe I've gone crazy, I was so laughing so hard watching 3 people trying to commit suicide in this episode. >_<
The guy jump in front of the train was so hilarious and very unexpected. XD
The best part when they chased the Shounen Bat. ^^
"Shounen Bat-sama! We've wanted to see you!" XD
--------------------
But toward the end of this episode become really strange. I got the feeling that something is not right. It wasn't until the girls who were taking pictures start screaming, then it suddenly hit me, they already dead aren't they? :twitch:
Then I rewatch and trace back this episode again and paid more attention this time. They don't cast shadows! >_<;;; They already dead a long time ago, I wonder how long they been dead?
I was having having goosebumps when I realized, I've been laughing at dead people. :twitch:
dreamless
2004-07-23, 13:48
About episode 8, Maybe I've gone crazy, I was so laughing so hard watching 3 people trying to commit suicide in this episode. >_<
The guy jump in front of the train was so hilarious and very unexpected. XD
The best part when they chased the Shounen Bat. ^^
"Shounen Bat-sama! We've wanted to see you!" XD
--------------------
But toward the end of this episode become really strange. I got the feeling that something is not right. It wasn't until the girls who were taking pictures start screaming, then it suddenly hit me, they already dead aren't they? :twitch:
Then I rewatch and trace back this episode again and paid more attention this time. They don't cast shadows! >_<;;; They already dead a long time ago, I wonder how long they been dead?
I was having having goosebumps when I realized, I've been laughing at dead people. :twitch:
for episode 8 time of death the girl died by jumping down the bridge after she thought the two guys "discarded" her, the two guys died in that abandoned house by taking sleeping pills and inhaling carbon monoxide. this can be inferred from that reason of their suicides and the disappearance of their shadows.
for episode 8 time of death the girl died by jumping down the bridge after she thought the two guys "discarded" her, the two guys died in that abandoned house by taking sleeping pills and inhaling carbon monoxide. this can be inferred from that reason of their suicides and the disappearance of their shadows.
eh?? ^^
When did she jumped? I tought she died with them inside that building. Got crushed by the heavy machine thingy. Because that's the point when we didn't see their shadows anymore. >_<;;;
dreamless
2004-07-23, 14:17
eh?? ^^
When did she jumped? I tought she died with them inside that building. Got crushed by the heavy machine thingy. Because that's the point when we didn't see their shadows anymore. >_<;;;
well...she jumped because she wanted to take suicide as she's the "unwanted" child. obviously she feels that she's discarded by her parents. And now she's discarded by her "suicide friends", that drives her over the edge...
it's hinted that she's already a ghost on how she suddenly "teleported" to the old building where the two guys died. there's no way she can trace them to that building.
that two guys should be already dead before the building is crushed... they took a LOT of sleeping pills and inhaled a LOT of carbon monoxide after all... and they could see the ghost of that girl (provided that girl is already dead at that time)
basically ghosts can see ghosts and humans, while humans can't see ghosts :D
I see about the girl.
But what about,
The people at the Inn, they were having dinner, took a hotspring bath and ordered a room. Also I think the Shounen Bat definitely can see them, and one of the woman saw Zebra san when he was chasing Shounen Bat.
PS: That scene stil cracks me up :heh:
dreamless
2004-07-23, 14:56
I see about the girl.
But what about,
The people at the Inn, they were having dinner, took a hotspring bath and ordered a room. Also I think the Shounen Bat definitely can see them, and one of the woman saw Zebra san when he was chasing Shounen Bat.
PS: That scene stil cracks me up :heh:
about the inn Shounen Bat didn't see the ghosts, he can see the door opening by itself and hear the ghosts, but couldn't see them, that obviously scared the hell out of him. the woman also heard the ghosts' steps, but didn't see anyone, that's why she stares at that direction afterwards...I think ^_^
about the room, well, we never see them pay for the room, we can assume they just walk straight into it and took bath etc. etc.
about the inn Shounen Bat didn't see the ghosts, he can see the door opening by itself and hear the ghosts, but couldn't see them, that obviously scared the hell out of him. the woman also heard the ghosts' steps, but didn't see anyone, that's why she stares at that direction afterwards...I think ^_^
about the room, well, we never see them pay for the room, we can assume they just walk straight into it and took bath etc. etc.
Lol I was quite sure he saw them ^^ because If a person cannot see the ghosts and can only hear their sounds, he probably will look left and right first looking where the voices come from. But when the door open, the Shounen Bat definitely look directly at them and was getting ready to strike them. ^^
Also the two women on the stairs, the first one was following the shounen bat, but the second one is following Zebra when he was running down the stairs. ^^
It was really odd because it doesn't make any sense at all, I can understand shounen bat can see them because he's special, he can see people that being cornered and can walk trough wall etc. But the woman that saw Zebra, I don't understand that one, maybe she's a ghost too like the guy that jump in front of the train. :heh:
I see, so i thought it was kinda weird when
The guy jumped in front of the train, and then later on you can see him on the platform alive but severely hurt. It makes sense that he turned into a ghost; theres no way you can survive collision with a train going at those speeds.
dreamless
2004-07-24, 02:48
about that... I thought Shounen Bat just readied his bat towards the direction of the voices, I think it's shown that the Shounen Bat's actions are not really responding to those three, but rather it's like he readied to attack, then slowly realized that there's no one but only voices, and then run away...
Also I'm not sure if that Shounen Bat in episode 8 is the real Shounen Bat or just another copycat... well, I still can't be sure whether there is indeed a real Shounen Bat or not even after watching to the end :heh:
tsurumaru
2004-07-24, 03:43
about that... I thought Shounen Bat just readied his bat towards the direction of the voices, I think it's shown that the Shounen Bat's actions are not really responding to those three, but rather it's like he readied to attack, then slowly realized that there's no one but only voices, and then run away...
Also I'm not sure if that Shounen Bat in episode 8 is the real Shounen Bat or just another copycat... well, I still can't be sure whether there is indeed a real Shounen Bat or not even after watching to the end :heh:
Welcome newcomers! :) Glad you are enjoying the show! If you look back in the thread you'll see that episode 8 was a highly debated one My personal view is that Shounen Bat can see the ghosts. This is because as he enters the room he specifically looks at them and he readies his bat, moving towards them. Only then to realise that they are ghosts when they willingly start to approach him (He can do nothing for them as they are already dead) so he tries to escape them but since they are continuously feeling "cornered" as they exist in a delusion of their own making (that they are still alive) its not so simple for him. Anyhow the most important point of this episode is that the person "Fox" in the chatroom who was dishing out the suicide advice and going to go out with a bang was Fake Shounen Bat so ultimately he got his wish.
smokybobo
2004-07-26, 15:00
I just finished watching this series and thought I'd mention a few things that haven't been pointed out yet.
The first thing that seemed obvious to me with the final episode was that this is a pandora's box story, that even when submerged in utter hopelessness and despair, that there is still a single beam of light at the bottom of the box, a light called hope. I believe Ikari is a character meant to illustrate this concept, even so far as to label the brand of cigarettes as "Hope". This is further accentuated when Sagi chased after Maromi in the subway tunnel and what happened as a result, and more so by the OP of the series - the various characters depicted in the series laughing in the midst of some of their personal despairs or otherwise "tragic" environment, the most obvious being Ikari laughing with a mushroom cloud effect of a set off nuclear bomb in the background. Of course the interesting part of the OP is that one can also look at it as an effective summary of the characters' turning their back on reality. All goes to whether you look at in an optimistic or pessimistic view.
As to the ending, I believe it is really meant to highlight the point that life is as ephemeral as a dream. You could even say the whole series was a dream of the Maniwa at the end who ended up and began as the "sage" of the whole story which fits in with what he says in the final "Dream Confession". More to the point, the final "reality" shown us closely resembles but does not exactly mirror the reality of the entire series. More importantly, it ends as it began with only few slight differences, and those differences entirely unimportant; people are still allowing themselves to be besieged by their fears, tragedies, despairs, etc. and maybe still quite willing to escape reality with Konya, and no one still knowing the Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything (I guess in the reality/ies of Paranoia Agent, no one sass a hoopy who's frood enough to tell em' where his towel is). "In the beinning, a story emerges at the end. After it goes round and round, it's back at the beginning. If one picks up the stepping stones and connects them together, they form an eternally recurring, infinite prison. Unsolved, the mystery weeps. There isn't even a point of not retaining the mystery." If the reality of the series was a dream of the final shown reality, whose dream then does that final reality belong to? An interesting concept though overused in stories IMO.
A few interesting tidbits: Maniwa in the ED is NOT in a similar position as those circling Maromi. Ikari is shown in the center of the group shot in the OP. The ending reality is ambiguous - you can take it as the same reality as the rest of the show, or you can think of it as I've put forth above; the catastrophe that destroyed Tokyo could have been the massive blobs of Shounen Bat(people's despair), or it could have been the typhoon; Sagi could be the same age but with a business suit and new hairstyle, or she might be a high school girl in the new reality (I originally thought she was a high school girl who had popularity thrust upon her; her design makes her look much younger than 22); Maniwa really was a detective who became insane, or he dreamt up the whole thing, arguably being sane/insane to begin with. The most interesting thing though is that while one can argue in favour of an optimistic or pessimistic POV, for me, all the messages put forth turned it into a neutral for me i.e. neither optimistic nor pessimistic which is amazing because it really is a lot easier for a story to end up with either a positive or a negative message than to juggle both sides equally.
Definitely one of the best ensemble cast anime shows I've watched.
"Please take care of what remains of your sanity."
I just finished this series, wow really excelent, amazing characters and story.
toward the end,
Neighbour gossiping episode is so amusing, the more toward the end the more it get weirder and weirder it was so hilarious. XD
The Maromi production episode was so weird. The story was very serious and the mood was quite dark. And Maromi out of the blue will pop up with cheery voice explaining "this how we make anime. ^_^" while the characters died one by one. >_<;;
Episode 11, I really like Mrs. Ikari character. What an amazing spirit. Just by sheer iron will alone, even Shounen Bat couldn't defeat her. She's a really cool character and amazing person.
The last 2 episodes I cannot stop watching, It was like 3 AM in the morning but it was getting really good and the story moving so fast. ^^ Maniwa amazingly figure out the entire puzzle with a hint from Mrs. Ikari, and in turn gave Tsukiko the clue how to stop shounen bat. It was also really touching how Mrs. Ikari find her way to her husband in her last moment. :(
And that scene when Maniwa confront Tsukiko and the chief, I felt kinda bad because I laugh at that guy when he got smacked by Shounen Bat giant form. :p
And finally Tsukiko past scene, it was so sad. Tsukiko must have loved Maromi so much to keep on clinging on Maromi all this time, but never had a chance to express her feeling at that time.
About the Minawa theory in the end, I don't understand it at all but it seems like a fitting ending for this series. ^^
http://img51.exs.cx/img51/8449/paranoia-agent.jpg
I definitely gona get the DVDs when this come out ^^
dreamless
2004-07-29, 11:53
about Mrs. Ikari I can't stop thinking about human instrumentality project at that sce... WAIT!!!! Her name is Mrs. Ikari in english???? I never noticed that before! LOL no wonder she's doing human instrumentality stuff XD
but then we never know whether she really defeated the Shounen Bat by the power of human instrumentality, or she's just crazy (drying quilts in rainy days, keeping rotten food, etc. etc. :twitch: )
For that anime production episode I think it's actually a parody of Japan's Senguko Period, with names like Nobunaga around... maybe it says that anime production is like wars :p
jennwenn
2004-07-29, 20:41
Finally finished. And MY GOD this series was amazing! I need the DVDs right now so I can watch this over and over!
Maybe it's a discreet call to otakus to stop wallowing in fictionous, ad-hoc relief. :O!
Actually, that's exactly what Hideaki Anno said about his ending to Evangelion! (That its sad how people watch cartoons and play games all the time and they need to grow up, or something to that very blunt effect.) As other posters have pointed out, the wife's name is Ikari! Its a common name, but I wonder if its more than coincidence considering how both directors have similar themes here.
Oh, and anyone notice that the nurse in Episode 11 is the nurse from Tokyo Godfathers?! Its definitely her!
I thought the ending was very satisfying. This was such a great commentary on modern Japanese society (and society in general). Gah, I can't stop gushing to type out a semi-literate analytical post!!! The psychology in this was so involving. I love all the characters, even the creepy ones. :) Except that Maromi! So damn creepy! CREEPY!!!! From episode 1!!!!!
EDIT: How funny that I wrote this jokingly mid-series and didn't even mean it lol:
Oh and another theory: clearly the positioning of the characters in the ending indicates that Maromi (whatever that creepy pink blob is named) is the true centerpiece and mastermind of the whole thing mwahahaha!
jennwenn
2004-07-29, 21:11
I know it's bad form to reply to one's own posts...
But I'd just like to point out that I was totally right on the money with this guess I made after only watching 3 episodes.
My thoughts on the ending: Not as insane as some might think. Over the top yes, but illogical no. The only thing I would have liked to be explained more was why Tsukiko had this amazing ability to manifest her feelings as objects. At what point exactly did Maromi go from fond childhood memory to living ningyou?
Questions: Does anyone have any ideas of the significance of the doll-making guy and his dolls (or the other way around, from the dolls perspective)? It somehow seemed like he was planned for a larger role but squeezed out due to time constraints. The whole thing with them helping "Radar Man" was cute, but seemed out of context somehow... what did it represent?
Who was the old woman who was always collecting trash? If we remember, she was the only witness to Tsukiko's first attack, but she was washed down the river during the tsunami... Are we to expect she somehow survived that? Or was when Tsukiko saw her only an illusion? Was she some conterpart to the Sage in metaphorical signifacance or was her character purely there for plot purposes?
Here's my biggest question: If Shounen Bat was initially created by Tsukiko, as well as Maromi, why was only Shoenen bat changed and morphed by popular opinion? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both aparitions? Or maybe that very fact was what made Maromi such a success: Everyone thinks Maromi is cute so Maromi becomes cute so everyone thinks Maromi is super-cute so Maromi becomes super-cute so.... and on and on.
I am also a little concerned about the mixed message the anime sent on the primary point: Is it better to have your problems solved by circumstance, or to deal with them on your own? I thought that the whole point of episode 10 was to demostrate the latter, but in the final episode we see two contradictory flashes: 1. We see a shot of the schizophrenic teacher as her alter ego once again, implying that Shoenen bat's quick fix was only temporary... i.e. her problem can't be so easily solved. (Quick question: Was the man she was with her husband, or just a "client"... I can't remember) 2. We have a longer shot of "Daddy" passing by his daughter, and she seems happy and doesn't recognize him (presumambly because the amnesia caused by Shounen bat was permanent). This kind of implies that her situation IS better off due to Shoenen bat's intervention.
Are we supposed to believe that Shoenen bat was actually justified for his actions in that case? That she made the right decision by calling him? Hmmmm.
Some things to look for in the last episode on a second viewing: Pay careful attention to the short clips you see of the secondary characters from the show, some of them reveal further developments/connections in their stories.
Haha, yes excellent deductions.
I wondered about the doll thing as well. So what was the real source of that newspaper tipoff, because the dolls were just an delusion right? Or were they...Did the otaku guy have a larger role? Aside from boinking the schizo prostitute in the earlier (particularly gross) episode?
I don't think the daughter really was better off after her attack. Every later scene we see her in, she's a walking vegetable. I don't think that's necassarily an improvement in her relationship with her father.
The overwhelming message appears to be that you can't run from your problems and try to escape from reality, you have to deal with it. Unfortunately for many of the characters and in real life, "dealing with it" doesn't always make you better off. The two cops still have those crappy jobs for instance and didn't get their old ones back. Sagi's dog is still dead. Looks like she changed her job too. That's life.
Also, did anyone notice some serious quality control issues in Episode 10 (I think it was 10...) Tsukino's face was horribly wrong. I hope that's retouched for the DVD release. It didn't even LOOK like her!
This is also one show where I really want to see some director's interviews and commentary!
Hi! Been lurking around this forum (along w/ the several hundred other guests :) ) for some time now, but have not felt compelled to post - until I came across this show. Having completed the series, just had to say a big "WOW". Beautifully thought out, beautifully executed, beautifully animated and accompanied by, yes, a beautiful score, this series is definitely going on my list of 'Great anime'.
I love how a lot of the story elements are?analogies ?representations of ideas, and how Satoshi Kon uses the medium of animation to bring across images that would not be possible in live-action, books and even manga.
There are still quite a number of things I'm not clear on yet. I've read somewhere that the end credits possibly show Maniwa breaking the ring around Maromi, but isn't he actually part of the cycle, going on to become the next Sage in the neverending circle of paranoia Have been reading the previous posts, including smokybobo's interpretation, but my mind is still whirling! Of course, part of the fun of watching Paranoia Agent is trying to figure things out ... :D
dreamless
2004-07-31, 14:02
The overwhelming message appears to be that you can't run from your problems and try to escape from reality, you have to deal with it. Unfortunately for many of the characters and in real life, "dealing with it" doesn't always make you better off. The two cops still have those crappy jobs for instance and didn't get their old ones back. Sagi's dog is still dead. Looks like she changed her job too. That's life.
Personally I don't think there is a definitely straight "right/wrong" message in Paranoia Agent... In this case I think it somewhat like Kino no Tabi, in that there's no "true right" answer in real life, everyone has to find their own "right" answer themselves...
for example, when Mrs. Ikari do the "human instrumentality" stuff in ep11 and told Shounen Bat something like that "it's wrong to escape reality, we have to face reality and overcome problems bravely!", "I will clear my doubts and always wait for my husband's return with a smile" etc. etc. it's like she's the perfect incarnation of the "true answer" of the series... but in a ironical turn of events, we found out that she's definitely out of her mind, drying quilts in rains, keeping rotten dishes for a week, etc. etc. Just when it seems the series gives you a "right" answer, it makes fun of the answer, the series actually makes fun of itself! That's really an awesome moment IMO :D
about the dolls... hmm... it can go either way, it could mean that all those things happened are illusions, and Maniwa just goes furthur into lunacy, or it could be showing the imminent invasion of fiction into reality, the breaking down of reality itself...
I guess this is indeed a show without a "right" answer after all ;)
jennwenn
2004-07-31, 22:42
Personally I don't think there is a definitely straight "right/wrong" message in Paranoia Agent... In this case I think it somewhat like Kino no Tabi, in that there's no "true right" answer in real life, everyone has to find their own "right" answer themselves...
Yes I agree. That's what I love about this show. I gave my interpretation, but there are so many other possibilities and I wouldn't say one has to be definitively right. (Or else I'd foresee some Eva replays when it comes to fandom running around in circles trying to make sense of it...)
for example, when Mrs. Ikari do the "human instrumentality" stuff in ep11 and told Shounen Bat something like that "it's wrong to escape reality, we have to face reality and overcome problems bravely!", "I will clear my doubts and always wait for my husband's return with a smile" etc. etc. it's like she's the perfect incarnation of the "true answer" of the series... but in a ironical turn of events, we found out that she's definitely out of her mind, drying quilts in rains, keeping rotten dishes for a week, etc. etc. Just when it seems the series gives you a "right" answer, it makes fun of the answer, the series actually makes fun of itself! That's really an awesome moment IMO :D
Nice quoting, I didn't remember that. I love how that joke is also played with Maniwa. The "saviour" of the entire series acts like (becomes?) a delusional hobo! His superhero antics saved the day, but it was hilarious how totally not "normal" he seemed. The fight scenes really had me laughing. It was so intentionally over the top. I still laugh thinking about it...
about the dolls... hmm... it can go either way, it could mean that all those things happened are illusions, and Maniwa just goes furthur into lunacy, or it could be showing the imminent invasion of fiction into reality, the breaking down of reality itself...
I guess this is indeed a show without a "right" answer after all ;)
I loved the running theme of the power of imagination. Interesting how the collective consciousness of society can create something so powerful it manifests itself in reality to become "true". People aren't isolated anymore, its like they combine their wills to create Shonen Bat. (Makes me think of Lain and the Wired, or the metaphysical discussion of Ghost in the Shell...) But when Shonen Bat is vanquished, people aren't acting as "one" anymore. They're isolated again even amidst the urban concentration. I see that in one of the last scenes that shows the populous clicking away at their cellphones on the train. I liked that touch. :)
Paranoia Agent is AWESOME!!! I haven't thought this much about an anime series in ages.
jennwenn
2004-07-31, 22:50
There are still quite a number of things I'm not clear on yet. I've read somewhere that the end credits possibly show Maniwa breaking the ring around Maromi, but isn't he actually part of the cycle, going on to become the next Sage in the neverending circle of paranoia Have been reading the previous posts, including smokybobo's interpretation, but my mind is still whirling! Of course, part of the fun of watching Paranoia Agent is trying to figure things out ... :D
I wonder whether the Shonen Bat phenomena will repeat itself too. I thought the circular ending was really fitting. And the weird next episode preview to a next episode that doesn't exist! (Or rather, the next episode is the first episode?) LOL, I'm confused but that's what I love about this too. :)
I'm definitely getting this series on R1 DVD - am so hoping a director's commentary is included! It'll be really strange to see Lil Slugger all over the subtitles though :P I mean SHOUNEN BATTO! just has that ring to it that's simply missing from "lil slugger". Have given my polite lil feedback to Geneon for what it's worth - perhaps they'll leave at least the subtitled version intact ...
alright, so I just finished watching this, and it seems it may have committed the crime that I was worried it would commit. It may have committed what I call the "Lain Sin." Lain put together a whole bunch of very weird circumstances and then tried to explain them all away with a reasonably simple answer. Certain detail simply weren't addressed at all. In other words, the series was a jigsaw puzzle with extra pieces. I all for media/anime that presents differing messages and lets the viewer decide on them. I DO however think that the details of an anime should fit together well. I hate movies such as Mullholland Drive, where certain parts of the plot simply have no rational explanation- even when the supernatural is accounted for. Now, I loved the anime up to the very end, and I loved most aspects of the end, too. However:
My problem is that there doesn't seem to be a reasonably defendable explanation for the final "Dream Confession". How the heck have RPG's, Maniwa, and the sage fit into all of this? To what extent is the story cyclical?
If somebody comes up with a solid explanation for this part, then I can reconsider. Otherwise, I can't quite put this among my top, say, 5-7 animes. Like I said, I loved most of it......but I hate when a story promises a fantastic ending, makes a mess, and then (falsely) claims the fantastic ending is somewhere in the rubble. If there is a true ending to discern, then so be it- but so far as I can tell, the incredibly high level of ambiguity is unsatisfying.
And don't think I don't like ambiguity at all. I love movies where ambiguity is used carefully as a spice- Twelve Monkeys is a great example. Ambiguity, however, should not be the key ingredient- as it appears to be here.
I don't know, maybe I'm missing a few big plot keys here.....has anybody thought of anythin new?
dreamless
2004-10-01, 04:53
alright, so I just finished watching this, and it seems it may have committed the crime that I was worried it would commit. It may have committed what I call the "Lain Sin." Lain put together a whole bunch of very weird circumstances and then tried to explain them all away with a reasonably simple answer. Certain detail simply weren't addressed at all. In other words, the series was a jigsaw puzzle with extra pieces. I all for media/anime that presents differing messages and lets the viewer decide on them. I DO however think that the details of an anime should fit together well. I hate movies such as Mullholland Drive, where certain parts of the plot simply have no rational explanation- even when the supernatural is accounted for. Now, I loved the anime up to the very end, and I loved most aspects of the end, too. However:
My problem is that there doesn't seem to be a reasonably defendable explanation for the final "Dream Confession". How the heck have RPG's, Maniwa, and the sage fit into all of this? To what extent is the story cyclical?
If somebody comes up with a solid explanation for this part, then I can reconsider. Otherwise, I can't quite put this among my top, say, 5-7 animes. Like I said, I loved most of it......but I hate when a story promises a fantastic ending, makes a mess, and then (falsely) claims the fantastic ending is somewhere in the rubble. If there is a true ending to discern, then so be it- but so far as I can tell, the incredibly high level of ambiguity is unsatisfying.
And don't think I don't like ambiguity at all. I love movies where ambiguity is used carefully as a spice- Twelve Monkeys is a great example. Ambiguity, however, should not be the key ingredient- as it appears to be here.
I don't know, maybe I'm missing a few big plot keys here.....has anybody thought of anythin new?
well, actually it depends on how you interpret the whole series... what do you think the entire series is? see my previous posts, do you think it's the fiction world invading the real world through Shounen Bat and Maromi, OR it's just various people driven insane by society and resulted in mass hysteria?I think if you want to take this series for a serious storyline, then you'll be disappointed. It's mostly a joke, a caricature, a mockery at our society and our way of thinking, it makes fun of logical reasoning and rules of society, it even makes fun of itself. It feels a bit like something of expressionism IMO. Lain is serious, while you could say that Paranoia Agent is... a paranoia in itself I guess... :heh:
well, actually it depends on how you interpret the whole series... what do you think the entire series is? see my previous posts, do you think it's the fiction world invading the real world through Shounen Bat and Maromi, OR it's just various people driven insane by society and resulted in mass hysteria?I think if you want to take this series for a serious storyline, then you'll be disappointed. It's mostly a joke, a caricature, a mockery at our society and our way of thinking, it makes fun of logical reasoning and rules of society, it even makes fun of itself. It feels a bit like something of expressionism IMO. Lain is serious, while you could say that Paranoia Agent is... a paranoia in itself I guess... :heh:
Perhaps, then, it was my expectations that were most at fault. I love stories that fit together like perfect clockwork and yet still manage to hide their true nature from the viewer. Memento would be an example.
So if I throw my previous comment out the window, I can say that this was a damn good anime- not quite a favorite, but certainly well-executed. (And I love the ending theme.) If I take that stance, though, I think I must argue that the episodes almost work best by themselves. In fact, some of my favorite episodes (8 and 9) had the least amount of attachment to the main plot. WELL worth the watch, nuff said.
alright, so I just finished watching this, and it seems it may have committed the crime that I was worried it would commit. It may have committed what I call the "Lain Sin." Lain put together a whole bunch of very weird circumstances and then tried to explain them all away with a reasonably simple answer. Certain detail simply weren't addressed at all. In other words, the series was a jigsaw puzzle with extra pieces. I all for media/anime that presents differing messages and lets the viewer decide on them. I DO however think that the details of an anime should fit together well. I hate movies such as Mullholland Drive, where certain parts of the plot simply have no rational explanation- even when the supernatural is accounted for. Now, I loved the anime up to the very end, and I loved most aspects of the end, too. However:
My problem is that there doesn't seem to be a reasonably defendable explanation for the final "Dream Confession". How the heck have RPG's, Maniwa, and the sage fit into all of this? To what extent is the story cyclical?
If somebody comes up with a solid explanation for this part, then I can reconsider. Otherwise, I can't quite put this among my top, say, 5-7 animes. Like I said, I loved most of it......but I hate when a story promises a fantastic ending, makes a mess, and then (falsely) claims the fantastic ending is somewhere in the rubble. If there is a true ending to discern, then so be it- but so far as I can tell, the incredibly high level of ambiguity is unsatisfying.
And don't think I don't like ambiguity at all. I love movies where ambiguity is used carefully as a spice- Twelve Monkeys is a great example. Ambiguity, however, should not be the key ingredient- as it appears to be here.
I don't know, maybe I'm missing a few big plot keys here.....has anybody thought of anythin new?
I think PA has no basis in reality, rather it tells a simple story about avoiding reality in the most unrealistic manner. In the end there was no need to fill the plot holes considering how clear the ending to the mystery was.
Heh heh heh ... happy otaku here ... my beautiful PA R1 DVD has arrived and I'm cackling like a loon along with the OP.
The first thing I checked out was the interview with Satoshi Kon (conducted by psychologist Dr Tamaki Saito). This interview was broadcast on Wowow on Nov 30, 2003, and is surprisingly spoilerific! Satoshi Kon discusses the "mousou" of the series title, how the term gives the idea of one 'actively making (oneself) delusional', and how the characters are all under some kind of stress. He expands further on this concept by bringing up the example of psychosomatic illness - kids who dread going to school developing abdominal pain.
Runpsicat has also posted something to that effect before on the Akraze forums, and that Japanese viewers knew right from the outset that Tsukiko was Shonen Bat's "creator-parent". Having gone through the series by refusing to look at 'spoilers' wherever possible, I wonder now how much of the wtf experience would have been changed had I the same knowledge as the Japanese viewers. Certainly a great deal of fun was in trying to figure out who/what on earth Shonen Bat was.
At the end of the day, though some would say the message was simple, it was undeniably beautifully executed, and even if I'd known the "true" message beforehand, Paranoia Agent would still remain one of the greatest anime trips I've ever taken.
shino bugged
2004-11-25, 18:44
yo i have a ? for anyone who watched episode 8
Those three characters who were trying to kill themselves were arleady dead right ! they were ghosts!!!!!!!
Ah yes, episode 8, one of my if not the favourite episode in this series. Yes, it was a great twist to find out that these 3 pp who were trying to commit suicide were actually already dead. This has actually been discussed at length, you might want to read from~ page 6 of this thread :)
shino bugged
2004-11-26, 21:12
Ah yes, episode 8, one of my if not the favourite episode in this series. Yes, it was a great twist to find out that these 3 pp who were trying to commit suicide were actually already dead. This has actually been discussed at length, you might want to read from~ page 6 of this thread :)
cool , thanks :) i didn't read all the thread pages :uhoh:
Trillster
2006-01-21, 00:03
Hah, about time this thread got revived, methinks...
I'm relatively new to anime The power of broadband interweb has brought marvellous gems such as Samurai Champloo, Eva and Paranoia Agent into my home, and for that I'm eternally grateful.
I've been searching for ages for people to discuss this show with, and now I discover that all discussions ended well over a year ago! Ah, well. Reading through the backlog reaffirmed a lot of my ideas about the show. I watched the whole series over a relatively short time frame, so it was interesting to note how people following the series hypothesised about its ending.
What grabbed me about PA was how such a richly detailed and varied set of character studies could hold such a fine overall narrative together so well. The adjectives I'm using are poor, but you all know what I mean! From the moment the opening titles rolled, you knew you'd got into something a little out of the ordinary. Ditto the end titles and the delightfully cryptic end titles (to which I say, Maniwa breaks the circle, but doesn't he also form the question mark?) and Dream Confessions (the sage was without doubt my favourite character, he's responsible for making "sate" my favourite Japanese word, "temae" is now a close second ;) if anyone can confirm this, does it actually translate as "now"?)
The evolution of Shounen Bat as an urban legend was thoroughly mesmerizing. I was in turns intrigued, shocked, baffled, afraid, delighted and appalled. Even when I thought I knew what Shounen Bat represented, I couldn't begin to concieve how it all would end. Things like the suicide trio already being dead totally slipped past me (though I was creeped out by the moment with the camera girls, I couldn't piece together an explanation at the time). Maniwa's seemingly inexplicable descent into madness also confused me. Yet despite not fully comprehending all the details, I felt that they weren't so important as the work in its entirety - a parable on the perils of escapism in modern society. Unflinching, hypnotic, with a dark sense of humour and an eye for irony. Paranoia Agent is one of my all time favourite shows. A latter day Twin Peaks, not just for otaku. I can't wait to hear the english dub!
Sate
Happy_Chip
2007-07-08, 20:44
Hi, in reviewing the above posts, this was kind of touched on, and there may not be an answer to this, but ...
what in the world was the flood of black gunk that was flowing everywhere? What was this supposed to represent?
Shabazza
2008-06-03, 16:30
what in the world was the flood of black gunk that was flowing everywhere? What was this supposed to represent?
I think it represents Paranoia itself.
If you want it totally objective without any personal impressions: You saw how Shounen Bat got stronger in the last few episodes? Well, that black stuff is probably the new form "he" took.
Happy_Chip
2008-06-03, 21:27
I think it represents Paranoia itself.
If you want it totally objective without any personal impressions: You saw how Shounen Bat got stronger in the last few episodes? Well, that black stuff is probably the new form "he" took.
thanks for the insight. I think it's safe to say, that most of what is going on in the show
isn't meant to be literal, these are events that are happening in people's minds, and there is isn't really an external absolute reality, but what is presented is each person's unique universe they've created in their own mind.
(Or something like that. At least, that much I could grasp, I think it became clear early on that Shonen Bat wasn't 'real', or even if had been a real person on those early episodes - like the kid that got arrested - the real Shonen Bat was a figment of people's deranged minds).
So ... I think your insight makes sense. I can't take it literally that a black flood is pouring over the nation, but, with your comment in mind and the final ending, that people are being overwhelmed with their own paranoia. That would make sense.
I've also read that PA is some kind of metaphor for the atomic bombing of Japan, that the Japanese nation in WWII did not take responsibility for what they did and that the atom bomb was in a sense, a national example of each episode - someone is in a bad situation of their own making, they can't confront it, and their getting hit by Shonen Bat it allowed them to solve their dilemma without having to take responsibility for the situation they were in. And there's a big mushroom cloud in the opening credits ...
Thoughts?
thanks for the insight. I think it's safe to say, that most of what is going on in the show
isn't meant to be literal, these are events that are happening in people's minds, and there is isn't really an external absolute reality, but what is presented is each person's unique universe they've created in their own mind.
(Or something like that. At least, that much I could grasp, I think it became clear early on that Shonen Bat wasn't 'real', or even if had been a real person on those early episodes - like the kid that got arrested - the real Shonen Bat was a figment of people's deranged minds).
So ... I think your insight makes sense. I can't take it literally that a black flood is pouring over the nation, but, with your comment in mind and the final ending, that people are being overwhelmed with their own paranoia. That would make sense.
I've also read that PA is some kind of metaphor for the atomic bombing of Japan, that the Japanese nation in WWII did not take responsibility for what they did and that the atom bomb was in a sense, a national example of each episode - someone is in a bad situation of their own making, they can't confront it, and their getting hit by Shonen Bat it allowed them to solve their dilemma without having to take responsibility for the situation they were in. And there's a big mushroom cloud in the opening credits ...
Thoughts?
ww2? this show has nothing to do with it. paranoia agent doesnt fit anime universe. it makes you think. no ecchi no mecha!
To me Paranoia Agent was the very first anime series which challenged my perception about the current state of society.
If you take it seriously, it forces you think through what's really going on with the people and the society.
Should we just take the pressure, the rush, the insults, and the sh** of everyday in order to conform with what the general populace dictates is normal and in the norm?
Or should we just throw everything to the drain and run away from whatever causes us anguish, pain, and/or pressure?
Shounen Bat was the fear and insecurities of the people who haunted back at them quite literally.
What I loved most, above everything else, was a particular scene in the anime's OP which made quite an impact on me.
Detective Akari standing at the top of the Tokyo Tower with the mushroom cloud on the background, exploding in the middle of a city during a sunny day.
And, definitely, the OP song is one of the best pieces of music I've ever heard. To me represents a very cheerful song about the end of the world.:)
Hey, if the world's going to end one of these days better smile, relax at home, or do something you have desired through your lifetime, and, finally, laugh like crazy.
Instead of the other scenario, fighting frightened for your life and going nuts in anguish.
Do as Sagi and the rest of the cast does in the OP, laugh like there's no tomorrow.:)
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