View Full Version : Clannad - Extra Episode (Tomoyo Chapter) Discussion / Poll
Klashikari
2008-07-15, 11:22
Welcome to the discussion thread for Clannad, Extra Episode : Tomoyo Chapter.
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Q: Extra episode...? What is this about? Shouldn't it be Episode 24 ? Why Tomoyo though?
A: As explained in this thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=63971), CLANNAD main story has ended with Episode 22 (for the first half of course, since a second season will be broadcasted in the future).
Episode 24 does not follow the same "universe": instead of Nagisa, Tomoya is going out with Tomoyo, according her route in the original game. This episode serves only as a omake for fans, showing how it would be if Tomoya is dating Tomoyo, it doesn't have anything to do with the upcoming second season.
Sterling01
2008-07-15, 11:36
It followed Tomoyo's Route very well, even including her end song.
Now where's my Tomoyo After anime?
Ottocycle
2008-07-15, 11:43
That was pretty good. The timeskips were handled especially well I think, I felt no abruptness from them all. And great Sunohara comedy as usual.
Spot the Ryou cameo. :heh:
Nightengale
2008-07-15, 11:46
... I was a little skeptical, but admittedly, I thought it was pretty well done. There were scenes I hoped the anime would've shown, and frankly, the opening narration jumping straight there was pretty awkward. The TV OP was unnecessary in my opinion.
However, regardless of game perspective or without it, it was a great adaption and a great episode. Could've used more grit and tears in some scenes, but the 'distance' was without a doubt wonderfully portrayed. In fact, I'd say the 1st half did a better job than the 2nd on that, despite the stronger overtones in the 2nd half.
Props to Yuuichi Nakamura's performance at the 22 minutes mark as well.
and lol at the railways symbolism. Admittedly, it did a great job at the ending especially, but I can't help but felt the scene where it opened look a little retarded... a little bit.
Didn't know there was a extra chapter like this planned but makes for a pleasant surprise for sure. :)
Haven't seen the actual ep yet but more Tomoyo is always good. :)
houkoholic
2008-07-15, 11:50
Just watched it. It's a little bit different from the game's story as they wrote out some of the more illogical plot points, which is not a bad thing. Would've like them to spend a little bit of time explaining how Tomoya and Tomoyo got together and them detailing the happy times they spend together to reaffirm the chemistry between them. It's not bad but feel abit compressed (can't expect much for just one episode).
The really good thing I noticed though was the amount of facial expressions - they spent a lot of time doing the faces, all the emotional key scenes had very expressive animated faces than usual and it adds a lot more impact to the dialogue.
Overall it reaffirms why I like Tomoyo's arc next to Nagaisa's arc though - they both bring about massive change in Tomoya's character and his outlook on life. I believe the most sincere and strongest type of love is when you change for the person you love.
About to watch it in a while, and I must say I'm really expecting something really satisfying in this Tomoyo Chapter. Darn papers is standing in my way :upset:
Tomoyo where?! :heh:
BTW, does this somewhat follow the Tomoyo ~It's a Wonderful Life~ story? :confused:
houkoholic
2008-07-15, 12:11
BTW, does this somewhat follow the Tomoyo ~It's a Wonderful Life~ story? :confused:
No. This episode is based on the Tomoyo Arc in the Clannad story. Tomoyo After follows on from this.
Leo_Otaku
2008-07-15, 13:05
Very well done but I agree it should have been a bit longer to show their relationship a bit better. Can't wait for after story. Though somehow I think this episode set it up for a Tomoyo After series or OVA lol
margafred
2008-07-15, 13:59
Very well done but I agree it should have been a bit longer to show their relationship a bit better.
^
Maybe some of you think that this episode was well made,since many wanted to see the story of Tomoyo and Tomoya as a couple.Those who never played the game,may think that everything in this episode is perfect and satisfying.But to me,its not...
Just like CLANNAD the movie,things between Tomoyo and Tomoya went too fast imo,The episode start with Tomoyo and Tomoya sitting together inside an empty classroom,waiting for the school's student council election announcement.How they both became a couple,it was never told in the episode.So its like this episode only covers 50% of the essential part of the Tomoyo arc,while the other 50% weren't included it on this episode OR they just covered it somewhere between episode 1-20,but no one would actually notice it,seeing the settings for the tv series and special chapter are completely different.
That's what i mean by things went too fast in the special chapter.Did Key expect us to just accept that Tomoyo and Tomoya already became a couple inside this episode without telling us how they both can ended up becoming a couple?There are so many sweet things that happened before they both become a couple,and none of it were covered in the tv series.Only those that played the game knew the missing story of Tomoyo's arc.
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Well its already been made like this..even if the story was hanged and forced to only shows the life of Tomoyo and Tomoya as a couple after Tomoyo became the new Student Council president.Anime quality as usual,something to be expected from KyoAni,just that the whole story feels incomplete to me.
Just watched it. Good work again, Kyoto. Now facial animation is really amazing and shows more real feelings and some small feats like waving hairs adds more feelings in dialogs, you can't miss this in the last dialogue, for example. Plot is good and close to the game, but really short. Short enough. Their relations already started at the beginning of this episode and this is a pity, I expected their first contacts, meetings and relations. The main problem here is a single episode. Only 25 minutes... Because of this 25 minutes you can actually call this episode as summary and nothing more. I think, that people, who played game, should really love this, because they already know their full story, but as for others - they maybe will not like some things or will not understand some small feats here. Ah, btw, thanks a lot for this amazing soundtrack, in this 25 minutes you will hear enough outstanding tracks like Shionari II, Yukinohara and even Ana ! Kyoto, thanks again. And some more special thanks for Tomoyo's and Tomoya's last dialog. It's full and very close to the game, they tryed fully show it in this episode. One of the best dialogues in "Tomoyo's route". Now I hope for Tomoyo After...
9/10.
Well, now let's wait for Clannad AS.
velocity7
2008-07-15, 17:37
This episode also reaffirms why the Tomoyo and Nagisa arcs were mutually exclusive, and couldn't be done together at the same time. Same holds true for Kyou's arc.
Farplaner
2008-07-15, 18:11
Glad to see...
the "break up" joke
made it in! In the speculation thread I was worried because it seemed like it wasn't in it.
A couple nitpicks:
- Considering how much they kissed in the game, they never kissed in this episode (only an almost-kiss) that got interrupted.
- I know about the time constraint (I wish it was a 1 hour episode...), but I wished the scene at the end with Takafumi - Tomoyo forgetting to give the bentou to Tomoya was shown :(
mandarb916
2008-07-16, 00:16
Personally, even though the events were compressed, i thought it was hands down the best ep of the series...tbh, i think it'll be difficult for AS to match or surpass this.
No. This episode is based on the Tomoyo Arc in the Clannad story. Tomoyo After follows on from this.
I thought so.
A very nice episode nonetheless, although I agree that it's a little short. KyoAni could have made it a 27-33 minute show to cover up more of Tomoyo's Arc and made the fans feeling more fulfilled. Though I must say, Ryou getting a cameo appearance, is unfair :heh:
Now, Tomoyo After... where?
a very very nice episode, wait so long for this episode is worth it. Quite touching to watch this episode. Those sound track are nice too.
tomoyo after i think(maybe) will be after the after story, dvd release again?
yea it is short but for me worth it :)
Taiyakikung
2008-07-16, 07:54
Umm!Is the sub out yet? I can't find it any where.
No. But it should be soon, I think.
Oh man I love Tomoyo's ending so very much.
SeedFreedom
2008-07-16, 11:54
*inner fanboy awakens*
*constantly refreshing BT page*
Matt Soulblade
2008-07-16, 21:42
Man I cant wait to see this so I can rage and whine about the fact that I hate Tomoyo and this is not a Kyou OVA.
Master Anime
2008-07-16, 21:52
Tomoyo Route Finally
Make me shed some tears
Stargaze
2008-07-17, 00:00
Tomoyo Route Finally
Make me shed some tears
It made me shed some aready :p
velocity7
2008-07-17, 00:45
Umm!Is the sub out yet? I can't find it any where.
I'm working hard, be patient! :heh:
MeoTwister5
2008-07-17, 00:56
For a single episode compression of a mid-length story, it's a lot better than the mid-season hack job they made on the sister's route. Of course I can't understand the dialogue, so I had to base it on my memory of the game script.
Nicely done Tomoyo route. If KyoAni could do this in 30min, than I can't really wait for AS.:heh:
Kaioshin Sama
2008-07-17, 04:33
Hmmm, Even never buying into hype and such, somehow to me the animation doesn't seem as up to snuff with this one as other people are claiming. Maybe I've just been watching to much Macross Frontier and just watched Bonen No Xamdou, but given Kyoani's reputation for overwhelming budget busting animation I sort of expected more. I wonder if they can even truly be considered the best animators out there any more as well not that I think such a thing is measurable as animation quality will always vary.
Also the scene with low colour while probably meant to be expressive in some manner also strikes me as an attempt to save money as well. Maybe I'm also just a bit bored with Kyoto Animations character designs as well. Who knows. Something is just not adding up here. As much as I am a frequent critic of their style of comedy and storytelling I still normally can normally say at the end of the day that I think they've put the maximum effort into the animation department. Today I don't think I can though.
Anywho, what I can say is that at the end of the day they came to work, did their adaptation and went home. Of course the episode is in the half hour format and as such it can't be considered a true arc, but if you piece together everything that has come before it in the TV Series then I'm sure one can construct a longer narrative for themselves. I can assume that the decision to do a Tomoyo OVA stems from the overwhelming popularity (that I personally can't understand) of the character and a desire to please that set of fans. Kyoani knows their audience and knows it well, unfortunately I'm still on the fringe it, but I know when I'm not the target now and will embrace it for what it is. Can't say it changed my mind about the rest of the series though which remains good, but nothing groundbreaking for me.
Just as a question of curiousity, shouldn't Kyoani consider a Kyou OVA? I mean that character also seems crazy popular and if she's skipped over then the Kyou fanboys will fight with the Tomoyo fanboys and then with Kyoani and then holy smokes there goes a group of fans posting on 2ch about how Kyoani screwed them! I wouldn't screw with these type of Otaku. I don't know what Kyoani is thinking but I'll give them that they are brave if a little brash.
Well, you know that in Macross Frontier their faces aren't good enough (and I don't like their face-drawing style) and 3d is simple sometimes (check cars, for example. But in battle parts it's nice). 3d part of their animation is good, of course, but sometimes there is small lack in non-3d parts. And as for backgrounds - a real lack of small details sometimes.
As for Clannad - check their face animation, hair wavings, their smooth moves, nice backgrounds. I can call the best animators ever only 3 or 5 studios. For example, Mad House (not all their works, but a lot of them, even if this work is something awfull, but animation always will be nice. Check, for example, Cardcaptor Sakura, so smooth animation in 1999, oh my... ! ) Kyoto Animation (Kanon 2006 is the best here, this snow flakes, snowy overview and this amazing lights. And smooth animation, their emotions are close to real) Clannad is nice, but isn't the same as Kanon 2006, but animation is smooth, drawnig is nice with a small details, well.
Also the scene with low colour while probably meant to be expressive in some manner also strikes me as an attempt to save money as well.... they've put the maximum effort into the animation department
Any examples with screens ?
bladeofdarkness
2008-07-17, 05:04
maybe we could get a kyou OVA
"Mahou Shoujo Kyou-chan"
like in ep 13 :D
Kaioshin Sama
2008-07-17, 05:35
Well, you know that in Macross Frontier their faces aren't good enough (and I don't like their face-drawing style) and 3d is simple sometimes (check cars, for example. But in battle parts it's nice). 3d part of their animation is good, of course, but sometimes there is small lack in non-3d parts. And as for backgrounds - a real lack of small details sometimes.
As for Clannad - check their face animation, hair wavings, their smooth moves, nice backgrounds. I can call the best animators ever only 3 or 5 studios. For example, Mad House (not all their works, but a lot of them, even if this work is something awfull, but animation always will be nice. Check, for example, Cardcaptor Sakura, so smooth animation in 1999, oh my... ! ) Kyoto Animation (Kanon 2006 is the best here, this snow flakes, snowy overview and this amazing lights. And smooth animation, their emotions are close to real) Clannad is nice, but isn't the same as Kanon 2006, but animation is smooth, drawnig is nice with a small details, well.
Any examples with screens ?
Here are a couple:
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/CLANNAD/CLANNAD%20-%20Tomoyo%20Chapter%20-%20Large%2032.jpg
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/CLANNAD/CLANNAD%20-%20Tomoyo%20Chapter%20-%20Large%2028.jpg
And no my friend making CG is easy, but making it look good is not. As for Macross Frontier's faces, that's more a character design choice then anything. That is not animation. And as for this episode, I agree that a lot of the times I could count a little extra movement in the facial movement, but it's easy to see how they can do that when you consider the number of still, distance and behind the viewer shots they employed. Take money from one area and employ it in another sort of thing.
And in any case I can tend to say the same about nice backgrounds for a lot of shows. Nice backgrounds tend to be easy to draw as they are often static. The same goes for hair wavings and facial expressions (Just finished a Geass episode today with some good examples of those, especially the latter), smooth movement (just saw some nice examples in Xam'd today as well).
I believe the episode was well animated enough, but I'm a long way off from calling it a bar setting work like some others are. I think that's among the reason why I'm going to give it a 7. Clannad and I seem to have a thing with that number.
Nice backgrounds tend to be easy to draw as they are often static
No. To draw them proper with a very small details is hard and it will take a lot of time, believe me.
The same goes for hair wavings
Really ? This is very hard part in animation, you know. One of the hardest.
facial expressions
Proper expressions that are close to real ones is a hard part in animation too.
Here are a couple
Well, this isn't really a lack of quality. An example of very bright winter day, I think that you saw them and you will understand it, right ? Of course, this bright light for someone can be a bit specific.
Kaioshin Sama
2008-07-17, 06:09
No. To draw them proper with a very small details is hard and it will take a lot of time, believe me.
Really ? This is very hard part in animation, you know. One of the hardest.
Proper expressions that are close to real ones is a hard part in animation too.
Well, this isn't really lack of quality. An example of very bright winter day, I think that you saw them and you will understand it, right ? Of course, this bright light for someone can be a bit specific.
Yes, I agree, but be that as it may there is still nothing in this episode that would make me say "Wow, I have never seen anything like this before" in terms of visuals. That I in fact have and have even seen some things I felt were as good or better overall the very same day is what I am saying. Kyoani has had a reputation among anime fans for being the best animator out there, but I'm thinking that they are going to have to share that title or give it up in this age. I don't think anyone will dispute that they are good at what they do in this episode nor that they didn't put in a good effort, but if I were to have not taken the common claims of unparalleled visuals with a grain of salt before watching I think I might have ended up disappointed and unimpressed.
And yes it's not a lack of quality in those scenes, I am not saying this, but I am saying it is a scene with low colour. The intentions don't change the reality of it from an animation standpoint so much as what they are trying to imply with the animation. In this case a very common day for me as a Canadian. :p
"Wow, I have never seen anything like this before" in terms of visuals
Well, this is true. But in overall - a very good job.
*Awaits the sub patiently*
Hopefully I can have my Friday ecstacy again. ^_^
Farplaner
2008-07-17, 06:18
I don't disagree with Kaioshin Sama, but I'm surprised that you used Macross Frontier as an example of excellent animation... There were a few episodes where the animation was outright hideous, something I won't say about Clannad.
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2009%20-%20Large%20Preview%2001.jpg
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2033.jpg
What I'll agree with, is that this episode is not going to win any award for the best ever. It's still very nice, comparable to other episodes.
Nightengale
2008-07-17, 09:17
Excellent animation is subjective. Kyoto Animation clearly prides themselves for key consistency and strong usage of lighting layers in its vibrant color template amongst what makes their animation prowess. And to a lesser degree, 1st-person perspective. They seems to quite good at that. I won't deny that they indeed have good animation, but if you strip all the colors away and watch the animation solely from a storyboard perspective, at times, the concept of 'better animation' becomes lesser defined.
Of course, comparisons with Macross Frontier (( better animated scenes )) and X'amd are not very fair. Due to the type of material in the Tomoyo OVA, the more expressive scenes come in expression and emotion. If anything, comparisons with TokiKake and Shinkai would work better in terms of the atmosphere behind the animation as well as the tone of the colors used, which of course, was not remotely as well done as the aforementioned movies.
Ice Block
2008-07-17, 17:11
No, no, no Kaoshin la, this is what we call consistency. How would you react if Ep24 suddenly came out with the regular series' Illusionary World animation? Sure, people will say, HOLY SHIT, this one's gotunparalleled visuals, but wouldn't you feel more at home if it uses the series' usual animation styles? And since you're watching more recent shows from good and well-known studios, then it's a given that their animation quality's gonna be ahead of Clannad by a good 3 months at least. Clannad isn't KyoAni's most beautifully animated work IMO, as I believe that Haruhi is still their most beautifully animated series.
Also, you got the genres wrong Kaoshin la. You can't label this as mecha/action just because there's an Illusionary World robot. Clannad is slice-of-life/romance/drama/comedy, and obviously one wouldn't go comparing the animation of action/fighting scenes, explosions and general chaos to people talking, walking, eating, making some jokes and cool poses, more walking and talking... maybe let's add in some crying and more talking... you get the point.
And would you mind giving us a link to those people posting about this episode's unparalleled visualsso we may all scorn on their biased reviews and blind KyoAni fanboyism? :rolleyes:
----------
On topic though, I have been looking forward to this Ep ever since it was announced. Will rate and post thoughts/comparisons later after I have finished watching the subs.
And if ever there's gonna be a Kyou route OVA, please make it be an excellent adaptation of her route in the game. Also, make it more than 23 minutes this time please. Two 23-minute OVAs would be great.
Just finished watching the episode.
As I thought, this really was not one of the better episodes of the series. But, it was a tall task Kyoto Animation had, so I can imagine why it would not be. It was based off of one of the routes I didn't really like, and it was trying to compress something like 15 days of gameplay into 25 minutes. As such, it became really rushed and did not really attempt to invoke the emotions too well.
However, I am glad that they released this episode. It was still Clannad, and all Clannad has a sort of happy feeling flowing through it. Art quality did not seem to be up to par with other episodes, but that may have just been from the version I was watching. I was also happy that they didn't end it with the dango song, making it more likely for a different ending song next season (Two Shadows? Chiisana Tenohira?) It definitely was missing something with the track "Ushio" during the promo screen cut out, and I didn't like the 16:9.
Overall, this episode was a 7, but it was quite a warm up making me excited for what should come in 2 months. ^_^
frontier has some of the best looking backgrounds i've seen in a long time for a tv series.. the episode 6 pan from where ranka as to Sheryl's concert was great for example...
anyway really looking forward to this, i hope they eventually do a tomoyo after anime.
SkoolRumble4Ya
2008-07-17, 21:47
Subs are out and I can't wait to watch it tonight.
todkapuz
2008-07-17, 21:49
I am pretty sure I didnt give any of the other 23 of this series a perfect 10... I know even 9s were really rare... 8s seldom used.. just how I am ... but I couldnt help doing it here.. I had some preconceived notions of what this episode would be from worknig with the game scripts... but .. I dont know.... ... thats all i can say...
SeedFreedom
2008-07-17, 21:53
That was beautiful *inner fanboy fufilled*
Anyways, quite surprising ending because it wasn't at all what i was expecting
So much love between the two. I was kinda expecting a slap when tomoya broke up with her, but it didn't happen. I really like how he cried when she was gone. Just shows how much love the two really had. Beautiful snow ending. Only bad point, seem the animation buddget went down the drain. Hardly find any giffable moments because the characters look so blocky. I hope it improves by the time they hit after story
Now im off to gif like crazy!
Ascaloth
2008-07-17, 23:23
Oh dear, for an entire path crammed into a single episode, that was far better than I thought.
KyoAni had a bigger budget for the OVA than it usually has, and it really shows. Apart from the fact that I never saw any pinheads (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/HyperionEnergy/Gundam00Blooper.png) throughout, Tomoyo's story was actually pretty good, even crammed into a single episode like that. I had no idea why I was almost tearing at the end, but I do have the feeling that I'd be BAWing if this was given a fuller treatment than simply an OVA.
8/10
King Lycan
2008-07-17, 23:58
This episode was so epic....Sunohara in Black hair looks just like Tomoya :heh:, Tomoyo and Tomoya look some much better then NagisaxTomoya ...
10/10 IMO
After it subbed then I can shed a tears and understand the story:heh::heh: but too bad only 1 episode :upset:
*tomoyogasm*
10'd because I find the love story so much more satisfying than the main storyline.
I'd def be up for a Kyou retelling as well, though.
Ascaloth
2008-07-18, 00:40
@Kaioshin,
If a debut showing by P.A. Works can do so much better (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/HyperionEnergy/TrueTears3.jpg) than that from a similar angle (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/HyperionEnergy/TrueTears4.jpg), then Sunrise really doesn't have any excuse.
But whatever, this is about CLANNAD and not anything else, and I have no intention of arguing with someone who is completely blind. Back to Ignore List you go.
Kaioshin Sama
2008-07-18, 01:30
@Kaioshin,
If a debut showing by P.A. Works can do so much better (http://www.riuva.com/ascaloth/True%20Tears%20ep02%20Resize/True%20Tears3.jpg) than that from a similar angle (http://www.riuva.com/ascaloth/True%20Tears%20ep02%20Resize/True%20Tears4.jpg), then Sunrise really doesn't have any excuse.
But whatever, this is about CLANNAD and not anything else, and I have no intention of arguing with someone who is completely blind. Back to Ignore List you go.
That's weird, I eventually ended up able to see your Clannad 24 article pictures in queue for the eventual publishing. Don't know if you want to check that out as it could be a privacy issue in the future.
Anyway, I forgive the rudeness I mentioned earlier, but I want to stress again that context is important as I frequently mention in just about everything, and you are missing the very important difference between a casual day at the baseball diamond (The likes of which we might see in this very anime) with people being depicted in motion and people standing motionless arms at their sides gawking at a terrorist attack (the likes of which we probably wouldn't). This is the second time you have used that picture in a situation where you are taking it well out of context. Let's not make a third.
You're trying to hard to force a comparison between two different types of scenarios (the likes of which Iceblock warned against in his reply to me) and I'm not sure I want to argue it further either so we'll go back to Clannad and pretend it never happened. Why you wouldn't just use True Tears as a touch off point for talking about Clannad's animation instead of working around to it through a totally out of place Gundam scene reference I do not know. Could have saved us both a lot of trouble and a whole lot words.
Don't think I don't see what you're doing here though. It's admittedly clever, working in your subtle jabs and arguments and then scrambling to get back to the core topic in an attempt to make me look like the sole person who has strayed from the topic and to try and shut down the argument so you have the last word in the process. I just want you to know that I know and am not going to play that game any longer. The ball is back in your court now and we can continue at your leisure. I personally don't think we've strayed to far from Clannad 24. The mods haven't said as such anyway.
zzeroparticle
2008-07-18, 02:29
Well, I'm pretty pleased with what I saw. In spite of the sweetness with how things ended, I did sort of miss the other characters just to watch their personalities bounce off of each other. With that kind of an episode constraint, it's completely understandable though.
But yeah, given the way things moved, it was pretty clear that they stuffed a lot into a short amount of time and while you sort of felt the separation anxiety from Tomoya, it doesn't really strike a major chord until the very end. With the way things ended though, it was fantastic. You couldn't ask for much more than that.
W00t subs.
Well, first of all, how you got to that topic I'm not entirely sure because I wasn't making a genre comparsion, I was citing some examples to make an entirely seperate counterpoint to something another user said. I'm sure Westlo (maybe?) would attest to the fact that there are more than enough "talking, walking, eating, making some jokes and cool poses" scenes to warrant a cross comparison between the shows I brought up in my examples and Clannad. Speaking of which, you brought that topic up as well as the mecha genre and are putting quite a few words in my mouth. And really there wasn't much point to it because I'm not going to change my mind about anything since I've already stated my point. This isn't something that can be influenced.
Yes Frontier has more than enough of those scenes to warrant a cross comparison, it's just that Frontier like most other Satelight works seems to prefer fluid animation over consistent character design whereas KyoAni is a stickler for having consistent character designs.
Manji Midou
2008-07-18, 05:42
omg...this ep was one of the best if not the best one of the clannad episodes, the whole episode was so damn touching...the ending almost made me shed a manly tear.
Wow, i don't know if that's just because it's DVD quality, but that was on a whole different level of beautiful compared to the series. I'm not that surprised that it looks a lot better in terms of background designs and all, i was just blown away by most of it. Especially the snow scene.
It was a lovely watch, a lot better then i expected. Not sure if it's just me, though i didn't feel rushed. Sure it could have lasted around 2/3 episodes, though they did the best job possible at pushing it all into one episode, and i love the final outcome.
Very sweet and lovely. I'd rewatch this a few times.
Ascaloth
2008-07-18, 07:00
Blog article is up:
[RIUVA] CLANNAD (TV), Another World (Tomoyo Chapter) (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1194)
Caution: Sociological infonuke ahead. :uhoh:
Ok Clannad... pretty good as usual, I probably don't understand it well because of the cultural difference. It really pissed me off how they were implying that your personal life had anything to do with your school life. Same with the teacher telling you to break up with your girlfriend, that was just awkward... Aslo the whole "she's going into a better place and your not". Seriously... where do people get off throwing verbal diarrhea at someone? Those moments were really wtf moments for me, but I'm assuming that's because of cultural differences, other than bs, it was quite a beautiful story.
Didn't like the whole break up thing, but the make up at the end was really cute. I thought they'll make things work, but Tomoya the little wussy ran away :P
Farplaner
2008-07-18, 07:27
I think it has more to do with the lack of time they have with one episode trying to pack everything in. They weren't able to show how Tomoyo was affected by Tomoya, and it's not simply "because he's a delinquint" that they want them to break up.
In the game, Tomoyo was not only using the broadcast system, she was ditching her responsibilities to spend time with Tomoya, and everybody sees that. Especially during the School Festival (this is in the episode, but maybe the effect is gone), she ditched her responsibilities to hide in a bear suit to spend the day with Tomoya, only to be found after she rescued a child.
Being with Tomoya was really dragging down Tomoyo in this regard, and people were starting to label Tomoyo as irresponsible, so she wouldn't have been able to save the Sakura trees, or be as successful in life if they didn't break up.
Blog article is up:
[RIUVA] CLANNAD (TV), Another World (Tomoyo Chapter) (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1194)
Caution: Sociological infonuke ahead. :uhoh:
Oh, how I've missed your blog articles. :)
You're going to continue for After Story, right?
Stargaze
2008-07-18, 07:43
Ok Clannad... pretty good as usual, I probably don't understand it well because of the cultural difference. It really pissed me off how they were implying that your personal life had anything to do with your school life. Same with the teacher telling you to break up with your girlfriend, that was just awkward... Aslo the whole "she's going into a better place and your not". Seriously... where do people get off throwing verbal diarrhea at someone? Those moments were really wtf moments for me, but I'm assuming that's because of cultural differences, other than bs, it was quite a beautiful story.
Yeah, I suppose it is the culture difference as I find it quite normal really. In Asia, (well, in my culture) high acedemic achievement will earn you high expectations. Acedemic achievements are seen as the most important thing in one's school life. Heck, I still remember that my school forbids people dating, because it interferes with one acedemic work and people are sent to counselling if they are found out. (its better now, but it is still strongly disapproved by many such as teachers)
Ascaloth
2008-07-18, 07:59
Oh, how I've missed your blog articles. :)
You're going to continue for After Story, right?
You know it. :D
Bankai29
2008-07-18, 08:06
This ep > Clannad 23 episodes...:p
OMG Tomoyo is sooo cute!!! Glasses FTW!!! TOMOYO FTW!!!
I wanna have a Clannad remake...Tomoyo's route...I also wish for Tomoyo After!!!:D
Now where's Kyou chapter?!? :p
Taiyakikung
2008-07-18, 08:26
Very good episode!I can't believe how they can shorten it to 1 episode and it's still this touching.Anyway,I have a strange thought(maybe)that this episode is better than original game.In the game,I got a bit irritated because Tomoya hadn't show that he wanted to improve himself a bit but kept blaming himself that he's not suited for Tomoyo instead.
(Maybe I missed something )
In this episode,he showed the great attempt to improve himself by attending the class on time,waking up by himself etc.when Tomoyo wasn't around but failed at the end.I find it very impressive.
A truly great episode, but one problem for me is that god-awful english song. I mean the song whould be incredible if it was in japanese, but in english it just seems out of place. The lyrics doesn't make any sense at all. It ruined episode 9 and sadly it dragged down this ep from a perfect 10 to a good 9. Oh well, I'm probably the only one, but I hate english in anime. Japanese is a beautiful language so I can't understand the need for english in their songs. Anyway, way to go Keyoani! Can't wait for After Story. And please, let it be 24 eps. I can't ever get enough Clannad.
IRJustman
2008-07-18, 10:57
A truly great episode, but one problem for me is that god-awful english song. I mean the song whould be incredible if it was in japanese, but in english it just seems out of place. The lyrics doesn't make any sense at all. It ruined episode 9 and sadly it dragged down this ep from a perfect 10 to a good 9. Oh well, I'm probably the only one, but I hate english in anime.
Oh, we commiserate with you on that one. We even used the official lyrics as presented in the liner notes.
As for me, atrocious Engrish or no, it doesn't matter to me that much. If one has an issue with this song, they should take it up with VisualArt's/Key in general, and Hagiwara Yuu, the song's lyricist.
Can't wait for After Story. And please, let it be 24 eps. I can't ever get enough Clannad.
Per a conversation I had with velocity7, this might give an opportunity to tell Kyou's route should KyoAni do this. Though don't be too surprised if it ends up being only twelve episodes.
--Ian.
b-joyful
2008-07-18, 11:46
i just watched it and it's awaesome! :D
i can't wait for the after story though!
Solafighter
2008-07-18, 13:33
Very nice episode! 10/10
But just, that i dont missunderstand something. This episode, does it caunt as the last episode of the first season? (I mean, its the last episode of the list (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=7809&page=25))
Ice Block
2008-07-18, 14:35
@Kaioshin: Sorry about the i la. Seriously though, in all the years I have lurked this forum, I have never noticed the extra i between a and o in your name. :eyespin:
Anyway, contradictions? RL is full of them. Amazing, isn't it? And about the picture you linked: aren't we talking about this episode, not the entire series? :uhoh: And about the action/chaos in mecha stuff, I was just saying that there is bound to be some action, chaos and the subsequent explosive aftereffects in any series that features mechas or any other weapons of war, while in slice-of-life and comedy/drama shows not concerned with war tools and gadgets, action, chaos and the subsequent explosive aftereffects seldom come by.
Anyway, let's drop this off-topic discussion and continue with the episode comments and impressions, shall we?
----------
Pretty solid episode, if only a bit compressed. Giving it 20 more minutes would have been great IMO, though I was pleasantly surprised that their break-up joke made it live. It was also nice seeing most of the other small jokes and concepts from the game getting preserved and presented well (like Sunohara's job-hunting on winter, Tomoyo's Engrish speech, Tomoya's failed job-hunting).
The only thing that bothers me though is how abrupt the break-up seemed to happen. In this case, more time devoted to the presentation of their differing lifestyles, goals and positions while trying to maintain their relationship would have made the eventual break-up much more believable and heart-wrenching ;). Plus, it's a shame that out of the one million kissing scenes they had in the game, not one was shown (one scene was only remotely hinted at). Same goes for the [in]famous 64HIT combo :heh:. Man, when I saw the bear during Founder's Day, the fist thing that come to my mind was Perfect 64HIT combo incoming, but alas there was no time to fit any more less important scenes in (would have made for great cameo appearances though).
Overall, the facial expressions were really top-notch, especially in the snow scene. Though animation was not really KyoAni's best, it stays true to Clannad's art style (though this may be the most beautifully animated episode of Clannad yet). As for the end though, I would have preferred if they showed the original ending from the game instead, with Tomoyo, along with Takafumi entering in as a freshman, meeting and delivering Tomoya's bento to him at the bottom of the hill where the cherry trees stand and blossom. :)
So with this, I give it an 8/10, +1 for giving me the same impact the game had (which is a very good thing considering that this is just a summary), totaling to a final score of 9/10.
And to echo someone else's post a while back:
Where the f:frustrated:ck is my Kyou Chapter, KyoAni?
Kaioshin Sama
2008-07-18, 14:37
W00t subs.
Yes Frontier has more than enough of those scenes to warrant a cross comparison, it's just that Frontier like most other Satelight works seems to prefer fluid animation over consistent character design whereas KyoAni is a stickler for having consistent character designs.
Yeah I think I can definitely agree on that. Especially the unfortunate Episode 08 of Frontier, which further proves that point. I really wish every show could have totally consistent character designs. American animation is also good in that regard just having watched the 2nd Futurama movie.
@Kaioshin: Sorry about the i la. Seriously though, in all the years I have lurked this forum, I have never noticed the extra i between a and o in your name. :eyespin:
And to echo someone else's post a while back:
Where the f:frustrated:ck is my Kyou Chapter, KyoAni?
Perfectly alright. You aren't the first one and won't be the last and I was only kidding anyway.
And see, I was right, now that they've made a Tomoyo OVA, Kyoani pretty much owes Kyou fans a Kyou OVA otherwise they will be accused of favouritism (mostly by 2ch I imagine). She's also the only character they haven't devoted a significant amount of singular focus to yet. Really though it would hinge on the success of this episodes DVD whether that's even considered though.
Personally though I've never liked this whole idea that there need to be strict arcs anyway and found Clannad's looser use of rigid character arcs to my liking compared to Kanon in the end. Just something I wanted to add.
That "Tomoya... Tomoya!" from Tomoyo when she starts crying gets me every time.
But yeah, like Tensami, I honestly can't stand that song - "Ana" isn't it? It's kind of drowned out by the awesomeness of that scene though.
Animation a little subpar in my opinion though. Sub-par for Kyoani that is, which is to say merely very good.
Where the fck is my Kyou Chapter, KyoAni?
Well, I also want to see Kyou's and Ryou's story, but chances are somewhere near 0. There is no Kyou After... As for Tomoyo After - I hope that they will animate it after Clannad AS of Haruhi S2.
IRJustman
2008-07-18, 15:20
Well, I also want to see Kyou's and Ryou's story, but chances are somewhere near 0.
Well, if the Tomoyo ep as well as their stated commitment to cover all the girls' routes are any indication, it could very well happen. Though granted, while it might be part of After Story, it would, by definition like Tomoyo's own story, be detached from the main storyline which involves Nagisa. All three storylines ([RK]you, Nagisa and Tomoyo) are mutually exclusive.
velocity7 said that a main reason (if not an excuse) to do 24 eps for After Story would be for [RK]you's route(s) and perhaps others' routes as well.
That said, I wouldn't entirely consider writing any such story off just yet. CLANNAD is but the first story from Key which would need "alternate universe" stories to tell the complete story. Little Busters! apparently absolutely requires "alternate universe" stories for the storyline to remotely make sense, I gather.
--Ian.
10/10 for me and no discussion.
I was crying like a baby watching this episode. The most moving, the best character. This is the best episode of the all in Clannad and the music is just something wonderful. Tomoyo was my very favourite chatacter next to Kotomi but now I just love her!
muncheez<3
2008-07-18, 15:42
dis was a very good episode and i rly enjoyed it since we haven't had a new clanad ep for a while so i was pretty anxious to watch dis and i felt like they rushed da ep a bit and i wish they would have shown more to tomoya and tomoyo's relationship
octoberasian
2008-07-18, 15:55
I have to be completely honest here when I say that this episode ended MUCH BETTER than the first season with Nagisa. Thus, it deserves a 10.
Tomoyo was my favorite character. :)
I can't wait for Tomoyo After.
SeedFreedom
2008-07-18, 16:01
Well, I also want to see Kyou's and Ryou's story, but chances are somewhere near 0. There is no Kyou After... As for Tomoyo After - I hope that they will animate it after Clannad AS of Haruhi S2.
Well, this was sort of a makeup for the short arc from the series. This is not Tomoyo After which is something else completely. However it doesn't look like theres much of a chance to release it unless the add it to the after story DVD.
Edit: I really hope for a Tomoyo after too :)
bladeofdarkness
2008-07-18, 18:13
i am a nagisa fan
and hearing that this ep was about tomoyo i was pissed off
having to wait for months for an OVA that doesnt even have my favorite character in it
there was no way that it would have been worth the wait
right ? :confused:
wrong
best clannad ep ever
hands down
i dont think i have ever been so moved by a single anime ep
kyoani has once again proved to me that they are to anime what dream theater is to music
Nanao-kun
2008-07-18, 20:48
This episode was simply amazing. The traits I had seen within Tomoyo from the first 22 episodes, that attracted me to her in the first place, were revelaed in their full glory. I was also compleely taken back from the fact that KyoAni was able to put so much emotional impact into a single episode.
I can't wait for Tomoyo After. I think I'll enjoy it more than Haruhi S2.
On another note, I enjoyed the ending to this much more than the ending with Nagisa.
kk2extreme
2008-07-18, 20:50
more glasses :)
I admit up front to being a Tomoyo fanboy. I had no idea this episode was coming out, so seeing it today and then getting the immediate gratification of watching it right way sent me into squealing fits.
It was a great look at more of Tomoyo. In the main series, most all we saw of her was her serious side. She seemed stuffy and perhaps elitist. I tend to love women of strong character in my stories, but she seemed downright cold. Here we get to see her warmer, softer side, not to mention her less responsible side. Tomoyo isn't, in fact, the stereotypical overachiever character, but is much less perfect. She still has strength of character, but her idiosyncrasies and human and feminine weaknesses make her more relatable, as well as much more fun.
It was, indeed, too compressed. It really needed at minimum three episodes, perhaps four, to really cover everything, if their early relationship was included. It felt much easier and more natural, though, without Tomoyo being shoehorned into the other arc.
Tomoyo's arc just makes for a better romance, period. Despite her far-fetched backstory, Tomoyo is a more realistic character, and their relationship is believable. As much as I am a fanboy of, say, Kotomi, Tomoyo has more depth and brings out more in Tomoya. Their romantic moments are excellent, as well: Passionate, funny, and serious (and not based on supernatural drama or the fawning of girls with weak personalities).
I think Tomoyo's arc succeeds not just as an anime romance, but that it stands far above most romance stories in general. The drama is realistic, relatable, and not petty garbage. I was moved.
I loved every second of this episode! Not just because it featured one of my favourite characters, but the drama and the way the plot flowed even though it was limited to less than half an hour!
I had played the game, and already knew what was coming, yet I still got the feelings I had while playing the game. The ending was so moving :( <3 Tomoyo
Thank you Kyoani for such a pleasent episode.
octoberasian
2008-07-18, 21:05
[quote=Forbin;1738782].../quote]
Already read Tomoyo After, but regardless how it ended, the story was really well done and well told. It felt not like those stereotypical high school anime romances, and Nagisa in my opinion was more like that. Tomoyo is just different and it was very nice to see something different that was out of the norm in many harem animes.
haiz123321
2008-07-18, 21:33
Hmm I gave this episode a 9 for the following reasons
Pros:
-Tomoyo's route shown on anime was pretty much awesome
-It was pretty touching
-Personal: I was pretty much excited when this came out since it features one of my favourite pairings with the other being TomoyaXTwins
Cons:
-Tomoya imo, seems slightly out of character here
-Tomoyo and Tomoya almost kissed but got interupted
-Everything was pretty rushed, I think those who didn't play the game will get confused between the jumping of events.
What I've noticed:
There were some parts different from the game. The place where Tomoyo and Tomoya broke up in the game was at the school gate and not somewhere in the shopping district unless I'm mistaken. Tomoya grabbed the guy talking to him about Tomoyo and she came soon after. They were supposed to kiss during the part where they announced the student president thing. The "break up" joke was supposed to happen twice but it only happened once. Tomoyo was supposed to cry after Tomoya hugged her if i remember correctly as well.
Overall I think it was a great episode :D I guess I might be hoping for too much if I wanted them to make a special episode for the 5 girl's ending >_<
Nightengale
2008-07-18, 21:47
Spiritually, we'll just have to be content with how much of the other cast we'll get in After Story... hopefully. Realistically speaking, it should happen to a lesser degree, considering the bonds that were built up throughout 23 episodes of Clannad.
If a debut showing by P.A. Works can do so much better (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/HyperionEnergy/TrueTears3.jpg) than that from a similar angle (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/HyperionEnergy/TrueTears4.jpg), then Sunrise really doesn't have any excuse.
There's no excuse, because that's just the way Sunrise is. :heh: Sunrise is an awkward studio with awkward priorities most of the time. When shows like PlanetES, Kekkaishi and Iroha employs better visual presentation than their mainstream shows, you just know there's something strange.
Kaioshin Sama
2008-07-18, 22:21
Spiritually, we'll just have to be content with how much of the other cast we'll get in After Story... hopefully. Realistically speaking, it should happen to a lesser degree, considering the bonds that were built up throughout 23 episodes of Clannad.
There's no excuse, because that's just the way Sunrise is. :heh: Sunrise is an awkward studio with awkward priorities most of the time. When shows like PlanetES, Kekkaishi and Iroha employs better visual presentation than their mainstream shows, you just know there's something strange.
I don't know, other then that one shot that wasn't meant to garner as much attention as it did being an up and away shot (except with people who choose to focus solely on the negative), that show was as consistent as this one I found. They also needed a lot of money and focus to be devote to the final few episodes where it was like non-stop battle after non-stop battle so they probably cut a few (very few in my book) corners here and there.
Clannad can have a fairly evenspread budget and focus since the setting doesn't change as much nor are is it's cast as large. Also no mecha battles to animate. Plus it also doesn't have to worry about variety in scene types as much and where the money needs to go. That's where they can get the focus and what people frequently call "attention to detail". Why other studios have so much trouble with Visual Novel adaptations like this I don't know.
All three storylines ([RK]you, Nagisa and Tomoyo) are mutually exclusive.
velocity7 said that a main reason
Unqiue, of course, but there is no real needing in this stories, this sounds strange a bit, of course. We all know that Kyoto planned to release only School Part without AS part at first.
And Tomoyo After is a direct sequel to Tomoyo's route, so there is a meaning of releasing it, not only as a gift for fans. It should be a base for TA. But who knows, maybe they will add K&R's story as a special again in AS.
Also no mecha battles to animate. Plus it also doesn't have to worry about variety in scene types as much
Well, you know... I can answer simplier - serious studios will never do something like this (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/HyperionEnergy/Gundam00Blooper.png), even in panoramic view.
ahhhh im searching all over for this episode and can't find it anywhere, I really wanna see it keeps tauting me tomoyo dating tomoyo
SeedFreedom
2008-07-18, 22:45
Its on anime suki. Its labeled epsiode 24, not Tomoyo chapter.
Kyoani could have made a killing if they did more of Tomoyo's story in OVAs instead of a dvd bonus. This ep goes really well with fragrant rice wine. Bah. I wish some millionaire would just pay for her whole arc to be animated.
Heh, sometimes I don't get why certain people try to compare CLANNAD (TV) to a mecha series. I mean, if you have to compare, at least compare mecha with mecha like, I dunno, FMP! TSR perhaps?
Because someone thinks that animating mecha is harder. Wrong. In works like Clannad, Air, Kanon the key is their feelings and animation. Properly animate their feelnigs, face, behavour - this all takes a lot of money, and who wants to argue - please don't talk again about "panoramic view, this doesn't matter, blah-blah..." because real studios who always care about their quality will never do this kind of things. And
human figures from a distance don't at least look more like human figures rather than pinheads
Fully describe a character takes a lot of time, money and tonns of work.
Moreover, I like Sunrise for Code Geass, but this is really awkward studio because of their visual stuff sometimes.
its was a pretty good ep. it didnt move me too much BC i knew wat would happen but the more screentime for tomoyo is better than just leaving their situation at the end of ep23. lol of all tomoyo related eps this is the first time i didnt bother to take screencaps bc there's a whole ep with her.
anime ronin
2008-07-18, 23:29
just saw the ep...
it took me a minute to get use to seeing tomoyo and tomoya together like that because i was so use to seeing him with nagisa but after i adjusted it ended up being a really great ep! definately felt the emotion between the two and the artwork was great! the music was good too!
out of curiosity, was there any reason why they decided to follow up on tomoyo ie tomoyo after rather than any of the other 3 girls (4 if you count kyou)? though i do like how it happened to turn out with the pairing i wanted to see.
Nightengale
2008-07-18, 23:44
That Gundam 00 scene is fixed in the DVD, so not that it matters. Jeez. Sunrise may not be Madhouse, even they're working at like 5 to 6 series at a time. More if you count movies and OVAs in production.
To be fair, it's not an excuse for them either way.
Because someone thiks that animating mecha is harder. Wrong. In works like Clannad, Air, Kanon the key is their feelings and animation. Properly animate their feelnigs, face, behavour - this all takes a lot of money, and who want to argue - please don't talk again about "panoramic view, this doesn't matter, blah-blah..." because real studios who always care about their quality will never do some kinde of things. And
Actually, it is. Animating 'static' mecha is indeed harder, more time-consuming and expensive, even if it doesn't look it. A staff on G-L once commented that G-L's semi-organic look was thought for it to not only be more expressive in animation, but to make it easier to animate if I'm not mistaken. Same with the choices to reduce the number of lining for the MS in 00 season 2.
Of course, you can say that animating mecha expressions is easier since it's just drawing the same face, but that's about the only thing. :heh:
Anyway, this isn't proper anyway. Comparisons with mecha series does not really work for CLANNAD, especially this Tomoya OVA more so than others even from merely an animation standpoint. The value and execution of the scenes are different. You can actually make 'some' comparison for the TV series, but er... not really the OVA. In terms of tone and presentation, it's better to put this in comparison with things like Iroha, TokiKake, etc which also worked on the visual mood and expression.
Anyway, back to CLANNAD.
SeedFreedom
2008-07-19, 00:31
out of curiosity, was there any reason why they decided to follow up on tomoyo ie tomoyo after rather than any of the other 3 girls (4 if you count kyou)? though i do like how it happened to turn out with the pairing i wanted to see.
Now, this is all my guess, but i think Tomoyo may be the most popular, or second most popular character so they tried to take advantage of that. Tomoy is the only character to have an After game (if you don't count Nagisa who is the default ending). The Tomoyo After game which sold really well in Japan based on the story continuing from this. Also, Tomoyo and Kyou are the two shortest arcs in the anime, mainly because if they followed them it would be hard to end with Nagisa, and i guess they only had time for one and Tomoyo was the more popular of the two.
Kaioshin Sama
2008-07-19, 02:06
Unqiue, of course, but there is no real needing in this stories, this sounds strange a bit, of course. We all know that Kyoto planned to release only School Part without AS part at first.
And Tomoyo After is a direct sequel to Tomoyo's route, so there is a meaning of releasing it, not only as a gift for fans. It should be a base for TA. But who knows, maybe they will add K&R's story as a special again in AS.
Well, you know... I can answer simplier - serious studios will never do something like this (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/HyperionEnergy/Gundam00Blooper.png), even in panoramic view.
Just want to touch on what Nightengale mentioned a bit and say that before you judge that show based on that one picture and whether or not a serious effort that went into it, you really ought to watch it first. If I judged Clannad based off of one picture of it that casts it in a bad light, say the scene where the world Horoscope is mispelled Holoscope and said that no serious studio would ever do something like that, I don't think you would find that very fair would you?
Everyone makes mistakes and one can find a frame in pretty much any show where they can say "this could have been done better". Doesn't mean that the studio isn't taking the project seriously though.
sakuravs
2008-07-19, 02:10
Great episode, despite a little bit sad & tragic moments here. I wish they were doing the same thing like this for Kyou & Ryou as well!!!
I feel like this epi is kind of getting viewers ready for the depression of the Clannad-After Story.
Spectacular_Insanity
2008-07-19, 02:17
I just watched it, and it was a very sweet episode. I didn't understand where it came from, though. Was this something based off the movie (which I haven't seen)?
In any case, I loved it, and the ending sequence was very touching. 10/10
Kaioshin Sama, check your pm. No more offtopic now.
I didn't understand where it came from, though. Was this something based off the movie (which I haven't seen)?
Directly from the game.
KholdStare
2008-07-19, 05:15
Ah, I watched it. I'm not in the mood to actually tear it to pieces right now, but I'll give it a score.
Final Rating: 9/10, "Outstanding"
10: Masterpiece
9: Outstanding, memorable, and usually has some kind of personal impact
8: Excellent, meaningful, and often addictive. Ratings of 8 or higher are considered exceptionally good.
---
7: Very good. Most anime I enjoy goes here.
6: Good, enjoyable. Most anime I watch starts here.
5: Average, kept my interest somewhat, but nothing too memorable.
4: Below average, watching it feels like an obligation.
3: Very bad, but I only watched it due to obligation. (if finished)
2: Painful, why did I watch this at all? (if finished)
1: Nightmare beyond words. Thankfully I've never rated anything this low.
TV: 124, OVA: 32, Movies: 36, Specials: 7, Mean: 5.9, Difference: +3.1 from mean.
For one storyline crammed in ONE episode, it did a good job.
I personally felt it would have gained much more as a three episode alternate storyline.
ep1: build-up until the confession
ep2: from this everyday life with the school drama until the breakup
ep3: from the break-up, through Tomoya taking on himself to graduate until the reunion.
But I'll have to do with what is done, so I won't make it a big deal.
Technical-wise, I have nothing to complain, it's Kyoto Animation standards.
As for Tomoya, I'd expect him to fight back a little harder when the vice-prez told him to fck off, but he is not Badass of The Week material. I can give him a thumb up for working by himself without the help of Tomoyo to graduate and find a place in the society.
So I gave it a 8.
Spectacular_Insanity
2008-07-19, 05:27
Directly from the game.
I see. I have not played the game either. Well, thank you for the clarification. ;)
haiz123321
2008-07-19, 07:28
out of curiosity, was there any reason why they decided to follow up on tomoyo ie tomoyo after rather than any of the other 3 girls (4 if you count kyou)? though i do like how it happened to turn out with the pairing i wanted to see.
From what I've heard, the majority of the fans prefered the Tomoyo's ending
Kaioshin Sama
2008-07-19, 07:37
From what I've heard, the majority of the fans prefered the Tomoyo's ending
To bad it's not canon.
From what I've heard, the majority of the fans prefered the Tomoyo's ending
The best part in Clannad is AS-part, and you really can't compare all other parts with it. So many feelings, personal problems and touching story with a real hard dramatic plot and really touching and amazing ending (true ending) in this part. I think, that everyone who played Clannad can easily prove it.
As for school part, well, for example, K&R's route is full of feelings and has a touching story and ending too. I think that a lot of fans like Tomoyo for it's unique behavour and her story (but also, her route has a lot of personal "chemistry" relations, a lot of kisses, very active personal relations, some sweet moments, for example, and so on. Nagisa's and K&R's are different in this plan, well, if you played Clannad - you know what I mean) so, this is based only on their own preferences. Also, looks like Key also like Tomoyo. And TA, of course.
From what I've heard, the majority of the fans prefered the Tomoyo's ending
Indeed. I prefer much the relationship Okazaki + Tomoyo than Okazaki + Nagisa. For me they suits each other perfectly.
bladeofdarkness
2008-07-19, 08:51
they could OVA tomoyo after
and tv anime the after story
like people would complain :D
dave1992
2008-07-19, 12:32
It's an awesome episode, It might NOT deserved a 11 like the one that happened few months ago, but it did deserve 10.
Just hope that Tomoyo After is really showed, after seeing this.
KholdStare
2008-07-19, 12:59
Clannad ~ Tomoyo Edition
First of all, I encountered no pacing issues whatsoever. This means that there was not a single time in the OVA that I felt lost or confused, except in the very beginning because I needed to "adjust" to the situation. After all, I watched this episode without knowing anything about it or expected to like it. For those who say that this could be better as a 2-3 episodes OVA, I must disagree. I was completely absorbed into the story for the entirety of the episode; thus, I don't see how it could have been any better. Dragging out the story for the sake of wanting more just doesn't make any sense, since it will probably lesson the suspence and overall emotional impact it had on me. Simply put, with no previous expectations or desire to watch this OVA, I was completely taken back by how good and impressive it was.
Story: 10
Art: 9
Sound: 8
Character: 10
Enjoyment: 10
Value: 8
Emotional Impact: 10
Story-wise, it was excellent, and I repeat: I am not a Tomoyo fanboy. The mood in the beginning was awkward at first because I just simply didn't expect what was happening, but the relationship that Tomoyo and Tomoya has until she was made president is very romantic without ever going over the top. The story then progresses to an internal struggle in both Tomoyo and Tomoya, the struggle betwen affection and ambition. As both strive for their similar goals, they realize how much of an influence they have on each other, even after they both said their good-byes. For some reason, I was very touched by this, and every scene portraying their internal struggle and external façade was completely believable. I felt as if I was one of the two, facing the exact same pain. This is to be a sign of excellent script and directing, and for that, the adaptatio nand story gets a ten from me. The epsiode suceeded at conveying the message of how love cannot be simply replaced by something else because it cannot be easily sacrificed and forgotten.
About several scenes that didn't make it into the episode, I'm sure that some might make the OVA a bit better, but this is after all an adaptation that requires the pacing of an animated work and not that of a game. I would have liked to see this famous kiss scene, but overall, the episode is already perfect without any other inclusions. If I were to rate this OVA completely from an enjoyment perspective, then it would undoubtedly get a ten. However, it correctly does not have any lasting thematic impact, so I will have to give it a nine. It is one of the only two anime that I have ever rate this highly due to enjoyment, and I am very glad to be able to watch this outstanding piece.
Final Rating: 9/10, "Outstanding"
10: Masterpiece
9: Outstanding, memorable, and usually has some kind of personal impact
8: Excellent, meaningful, and often addictive. Ratings of 8 or higher are considered exceptionally good.
---
7: Very good. Most anime I enjoy goes here.
6: Good, enjoyable. Most anime I watch starts here.
5: Average, kept my interest somewhat, but nothing too memorable.
4: Below average, watching it feels like an obligation.
3: Very bad, but I only watched it due to obligation. (if finished)
2: Painful, why did I watch this at all? (if finished)
1: Nightmare beyond words. Thankfully I've never rated anything this low.
TV: 124, OVA: 32, Movies: 36, Specials: 7, Mean: 5.9, Difference: +3.1 from mean.
Now, this is all my guess, but i think Tomoyo may be the most popular, or second most popular character so they tried to take advantage of that. Tomoy is the only character to have an After game (if you don't count Nagisa who is the default ending). The Tomoyo After game which sold really well in Japan based on the story continuing from this. Also, Tomoyo and Kyou are the two shortest arcs in the anime, mainly because if they followed them it would be hard to end with Nagisa, and i guess they only had time for one and Tomoyo was the more popular of the two.
From what I've heard, the majority of the fans prefered the Tomoyo's ending
ty, im glad tomoyo held a popularity advantage over kyou. though a true kyou ending would be rather cool to see.
To bad it's not canon.
thats true, the story is much more interesting if tomoyo beat nagisa. too bad the most we can do is deny nagisa's existence and go with tomoyo.
Anh_Minh
2008-07-19, 14:24
Eh. After watching 23 episodes of Tomoya x Nagisa, I found it hard to care about Tomoyo x Tomoya.
I don't dislike her, but I'm not precisely enamoured with her either. What touched me most about Clannad weren't the whole pairings things, but the individual stories of the girls. Especially Fuko's. Tomoyo's is the one I cared the least about.
SeedFreedom
2008-07-19, 14:27
Eh. After watching 23 episodes of Tomoyo x Nagisa, I found it hard to care about Tomoyo x Tomoya.
I don't dislike her, but I'm not precisely enamoured with her either. What touched me most about Clannad weren't the whole pairings things, but the individual stories of the girls. Especially Fuko's. Tomoyo's is the one I cared the least about.
I hope your combining both her story in this episode with her very small arc from the game to make that decision. Remeber the only reason she was saving the trees was for her brother who also killed himself. I found it really touching that Tomoya chooses to save Tomoyo's dream then be with who he loves.
Anh_Minh
2008-07-19, 14:29
I haven't played the game. But yes, when I say her story's the one I care the least about, I do mean that thing with her suicidal, brother.
Vegard Aune
2008-07-19, 14:48
Remeber the only reason she was saving the trees was for her brother who also killed himself.
Eh... no, he didn't.
Anyway, this episode was enjoyable. Not my favourite, but it was good enough. Although, I'll have to jump on the bandwagon and say that I really, really, REALLY dislike that song. It would have been much better if that damn song wasn't there, and they'd played some instrumental-track instead... I think.
Deathkillz
2008-07-19, 15:43
Well this was easily my favorite episode being a Tomoyo fanboy, more need to be said? Ofc I'm bias :rolleyes:
But in all seriousness I dont really care about whether this was canon or not as long as the story is good and this was good.
Not in a masterpiece way but touching it was and by not having much development leading to it being only just a one shot episode, it did well in conveying that feeling. It would be more meaningful if you've play the game though but even without that it was emotional.
Perhaps it isn't very deep for more analysis but the simple problem still packs enough impact without being that "deep".
A very enjoyable episode :)
JagdPanther
2008-07-19, 16:41
I just got around to watching it and thought it was very good. :D
Oh, I want my own Tomoyo...
Though I was a little disappointed she didn't lay the smack down on Sunohara at any time. lol
Does anyone here speak English that could translate the lyrics of Ana? I didn't understand any of it...
But seriously, I was looking forward to this OVA, because for me, just about every episode of Clannad has been very sweet while maintaining a very high level of interest from me throughout each episode. I was also looking forward to seeing what we missed in Tomoyo's Arc from previous episodes. When I first saw Clannad she struck me as the prettiest of the bunch, it was sort of a shame we'd have to skip out on some of her story.
But 20+ minutes of relationship trouble is the last thing I need. I found the plot predictable and boring. All the character's actions seemed to go for as much melodrama as possible, it's the sort of stuff I'd expect from a primetime TV drama. I loved the whole story about Tomoyo from the first season about her relationship with her family and how her brother's actions showed her how important family is. So I thought it was a little bit from left field when Clannad stopped going on about the theme of family and more into relationship issues this episode.
Tomoya bothered me a bit too, if other peoples comments on their relationship started to get to him, I was hoping he'd let Tomoyo know with actual words to be more prudent about things like using the PA system for personal uses :heh: and to start to get up early himself. I mean, why are you waiting until after you break up to start waking up early you bozo?! I wish they could have solidified Tomoyo's feelings in the episode a little more too, by showing why she likes Tomoya so much, maybe a montage in the beginning about how they started to date romantically would have helped.
All in all I thought it was Average, so I gave it a 6, it was mildly entertaining and amusing at times, I never really bought into the drama, which is the first time that's happened for me in a kyoani adaptation.
I just finished watching this omg I love it, I thought id prefer KyouxTomoya but TomoyaxTomoyo is so much better it just seems to fit perfectly. 9.5/10 loved it so much. If only this would of been the real series not so much of a nagisa fan they dont work out together from what I see x.x...(not flaming just how the act from the anime)
Story: 9/10
Animation: 8.5/10
Characters: 10/10
Sound:9/10
JagdPanther
2008-07-19, 19:35
That brings me to a question, nines:
Do you (or does anyone else) know if there will be other "extra" episodes for other pairings? Like a Kyou pairing? I'd love to see that, but I think I'd prefer Tomoyo x Tomoya.
SkoolRumble4Ya
2008-07-19, 19:37
This was a good episode but I didn't really seem into it at first because Tomoya with Nagisa makes a better couple in my opinion and also I know this is just a episode to please the fans.
SidVicious
2008-07-19, 19:38
Nice episode.
But Nagisa is still my favorite girl. :)
Shiroi Hane
2008-07-19, 20:04
Also the scene with low colour while probably meant to be expressive in some manner also strikes me as an attempt to save money as well.
Someone still has to sit down and colour it, no matter what palette they are using - it't not like they're saving money on the 'paint' or anything.
Taiyakikung
2008-07-19, 21:45
The best part in Clannad is AS-part, and you really can't compare all other parts with it. So many feelings, personal problems and touching story with a real hard dramatic plot and really touching and amazing ending (true ending) in this part. I think, that everyone who played Clannad can easily prove it.
As for school part, well, for example, K&R's route is full of feelings and has a touching story and ending too. I think that a lot of fans like Tomoyo for it's unique behavour and her story (but also, her route has a lot of personal "chemistry" relations, a lot of kisses, very active personal relations, some sweet moments, for example, and so on. Nagisa's and K&R's are different in this plan, well, if you played Clannad - you know what I mean) so, this is based only on their own preferences. Also, looks like Key also like Tomoyo. And TA, of course.
Agree!Tomoyo route is full of physical interaction between Tomoya/yo.
Sometimes,I don't like it.Tomoya looked very perverted.In contrast,Nagisa route especially after story is full of impressive dialogues that can make me cry.
Stargaze
2008-07-19, 22:06
Agree!Tomoyo route is full of physical interaction between Tomoya/yo.
Sometimes,I don't like it.Tomoya looked very perverted.In contrast,Nagisa route especially after story is full of impressive dialogues that can make me cry.
I found both really touching though. Tomoya's personality does have quite a big contrast between the two routes, but I think it is due to the personality of the girls as well. Tomoyo's aggressive and Nagisa's shyness is portrayed onto Tomoya.
Ice Block
2008-07-20, 00:25
I am so damn sleepy right now, but here's one line I just couldn't let pass.
For those who say that this could be better as a 2-3 episodes OVA, I must disagree.
Sorry la, but when you know both worlds, you tend to pick the better. In this case, the game did better overall. You'd only think otherwise coz you haven't seen the big picture. They didn't just miss some minor details, but LOTS of minor details -- and these things tend to add up in the end. No la, this route could've been 10x better if they gave it more airtime.
But believe me, this one's got nothing on After Story. Nothing, I tell ya. Nothing at all. :heh:
And to Tomoyo's and her arc's / Tomoyo After's popularity? I have always believed that her route's popularity among Japanese VN fans is largely because her route is the closest thing to H in the original game. Also part of the reason why TA was chosen as the semi-sequel to Clannad, giving its H-game status a somewhat natural feel.
I also think Key might have had plans on making a Kyou After, but got scrapped and was never announced. My idea taken from this extremely rare poster on Key's studio: http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/matr1x_zzz/key.jpg
Found this here (http://www.senakablog.com/archives/2007/10/clannadkey.html). Everything on that poster is so out of character for Kyou, hence why I think it may be related to something like Tomoyo After, only with Kyou as the main heroine.
As for ANA... the melody's good. Just don't mind the lyrics. TIP: don't think of the lyrics as English words. Think of them as some odd alien language. :p
SeedFreedom
2008-07-20, 00:37
Eh... no, he didn't.
Ack, the also is suppose to be almost. Must have been really tired when i wrote that. Thanks.
IRJustman
2008-07-20, 00:37
As for ANA... the melody's good. Just don't mind the lyrics. TIP: don't think of the lyrics as English words. Think of them as some odd alien language. :p
You probably said the exact words I have been (unsuccessfully) trying to find about how to regard those lyrics. And yes, our subs are EXACTLY as they appeared in the CD's liner notes.
I've heard elsewhere that a lot of Engrish isn't real English, but used much the same way Japanese ideograms/script might be used in America, as little more than decoration. Sure it looks and sounds cool to the person who can't read it, but it can look like a complete mishmash of words who can, often to comic effect. I mean, without it, we wouldn't have engrish.com. ;)
velocity7 and I have frequently said that this song is REALLY hard to listen to if you're trying to listen for real meaning in the song. Yes, it parses (to a degree), but the meter is way off for English singing, plus as others have observed, it seems to ramble aimlessly, lacking anything resembling coherency.
So take it for what it is: little more than decoration.
--Ian.
Everything on that poster is so out of character for Kyou, hence why I think it may be related to something like Tomoyo After...
Well, I think this is only a rare poster and nothing more.
If someone interested in Ana's lyrics, then :
The place changes and goes. Like a wind, like clouds.
Like the traces of the heart, no halt at the places.
The place is so far away. be far apart.
People's hand does not reach,so merely has (the) worship.
The place is a lofty lord. can't meet nobody put on.
We will lose the place.so lofty which changes.
Not all were desired. However, we're never sad.
Still, there is still the place.far away. far away.
(The wind) blows through the place. an endless,with all.
Like the ripple float on the water, It blows as it goes.
The place is No make at all. Nothing is shown.
Like the sand clasped by hand, It falls vainly.
The place is (a) profound lord,and wear the vain faint light.
But we will find it in the place.The hut at which it stands still.
If not concerned with all,It will maintain that No dye.
Therefore there is still the hut.It's lonly, solitary.
No halt at the wind.it soars to the sky.
Like the verdure (which) meets with sunrise, It grows up as reborn.
The hut has held new one.that's different from all.
Like the sand castle of the children,but realized with the mind.
The person is a vain statue.wear taciturnity calm.
still,We will know a huge flow.It is stopped by nobody.
soon,the wind wears the snow cloud. will be dyed to snow-white.
Summer grass will incline.No sunlight,feebly shade.
The place buried in deep snow.like the collapsing castle.
Like the head of the shade,figure will be thrown away
The hut buried in deep snow.It sinks in to the flood.
and The "not dyeing" is dyed out,and waits for a oppose one.
Even if all are healed, be gonna no return.
There is still the place.far away. far away.
The place changes and goes. Like a wind, like clouds.
Like the traces of the heart, no halt at the places.
The place is a lofty lord. can't meet nobody put on.
Still, there is still the place. far away. far away.
KholdStare
2008-07-20, 02:04
@Ice Block: That's true. However, I that's true for everything. I'm a harsh analyst for anime, and I can see no way that the episode can do any better. If the director can achieve that for people who haven't watched/played/read the original adaptation, then that deserves maximum points in my book. It's just a simple question of what came first for all of us. This is similar to how I think Love Hina is very good because I haven't read the manga, but let's not go into taht.
Ana was great. Like others, I've never tried to understand the lyrics. All I cared about was its melody was amazingly fitting for that scene.
Master Chibi
2008-07-20, 02:44
God this episode was better then entire bloody series that came before.
And yes, I'm being fully serious.
Well, I think this is only a rare poster and nothing more.
If someone interested in Ana's lyrics, then :
The place changes and goes. Like a wind, like clouds.
Like the traces of the heart, no halt at the places.
The place is so far away. be far apart.
People's hand does not reach,so merely has (the) worship.
The place is a lofty lord. can't meet nobody put on.
We will lose the place.so lofty which changes.
Not all were desired. However, we're never sad.
Still, there is still the place.far away. far away.
(The wind) blows through the place. an endless,with all.
Like the ripple float on the water, It blows as it goes.
The place is No make at all. Nothing is shown.
Like the sand clasped by hand, It falls vainly.
The place is (a) profound lord,and wear the vain faint light.
But we will find it in the place.The hut at which it stands still.
If not concerned with all,It will maintain that No dye.
Therefore there is still the hut.It's lonly, solitary.
No halt at the wind.it soars to the sky.
Like the verdure (which) meets with sunrise, It grows up as reborn.
The hut has held new one.that's different from all.
Like the sand castle of the children,but realized with the mind.
The person is a vain statue.wear taciturnity calm.
still,We will know a huge flow.It is stopped by nobody.
soon,the wind wears the snow cloud. will be dyed to snow-white.
Summer grass will incline.No sunlight,feebly shade.
The place buried in deep snow.like the collapsing castle.
Like the head of the shade,figure will be thrown away
The hut buried in deep snow.It sinks in to the flood.
and The "not dyeing" is dyed out,and waits for a oppose one.
Even if all are healed, be gonna no return.
There is still the place.far away. far away.
The place changes and goes. Like a wind, like clouds.
Like the traces of the heart, no halt at the places.
The place is a lofty lord. can't meet nobody put on.
Still, there is still the place. far away. far away.
there's still always someone waiting for this. Much thanks! ;)
Reckoner
2008-07-20, 03:19
This episode was more enjoyable than any I've seen so far in this series. While I am a fan of Tomoyo as a character, the difference of enjoyment in this episode was caused more by by my dislike Nagisa than anything else.
I'm just sad that they phased out the classroom kiss, damn them!
Now to wait for AS... which I hope will be better.
JagdPanther
2008-07-20, 09:22
People don't like Nagisa?
Now, I don't consider her my favorite character, but to dislike her... >_>
^ It might be.
Anyways,this special episode is great.I almost cried in the last scene when Tomoya and Tomoyo were hugging and Also the part when Sunohara dye his hair was damn xD. Lol
.I guess that's one of the most touching episode i've ever watch but i kinda feel that i'm used to Nagisa being with Tomoya.I mean i'm not saying that i don't like Tomoyo.I like Tomoya X Tomoyo and Tomoya and Nagisa pairing equally ( + Tomoya X Kyou :D).
Anyhow,i give this episode 9/10 because it went too fast but i enjoyed watching it. (+ The guy with glasses is HOT)
^ It might be.
Anyways,this special episode is great.I almost cried in the last scene when Tomoya and Tomoyo were hugging and Also the part when Sunohara dye his hair was damn xD. Lol
.I guess that's nne of the most touching episode i've ever watch but i kinda feel that i'm used to Nagisa being with Tomoya.I mean i'm not saying that i don't like Tomoyo.I like Tomoya X Tomoyo and Tomoya and Nagisa pairing equally ( + Tomoya X Kyou :D).
Anyhow,i give this episode 9/10 because it went too fast but i enjoyed watching it. (+ The guy with glasses is HOT)
but because of that guy Tomoya and Tomoyo never kiss each other :mad:
but because of that guy Tomoya and Tomoyo never kiss each other :mad:
Well at least in the last scene they hugged which is really sweet.I got pissed too when that guy interfere their kissing moment but i guess it's for her own good because if she keeps hanging around with Tomoya a lot she wouldn't save the Sakura trees i think. :( Too bad the guy with glasses (Don't know his name) isn't very popular.*
The place is a lofty lord. can't meet nobody put on.
Still, there is still the place. far away. far away.
Brings a tear to my eye. I've always been searching for somebody to put on :(
I would like to see 1-2 episodes in AS dedicated to Kyou's and Kappei's route, though.
This episode has already summed up Tomoyo's route, despite leaving out the details of Tomoyo's family, which does play a big role in her route.
Fuuko's route and Komamura(sp?)'s routes aren't designed around romance, so that should stay out.
Looks like that they used babelfish...
Shiroi Hane
2008-07-20, 20:12
There's still nothing that out-Engrishes the Hellsing (TV) OP.
Fate/Tsukihime
2008-07-20, 22:28
For one storyline crammed in ONE episode, it did a good job.
I personally felt it would have gained much more as a three episode alternate storyline.
ep1: build-up until the confession
ep2: from this everyday life with the school drama until the breakup
ep3: from the break-up, through Tomoya taking on himself to graduate until the reunion.
But I'll have to do with what is done, so I won't make it a big deal.
Technical-wise, I have nothing to complain, it's Kyoto Animation standards.
As for Tomoya, I'd expect him to fight back a little harder when the vice-prez told him to fck off, but he is not Badass of The Week material. I can give him a thumb up for working by himself without the help of Tomoyo to graduate and find a place in the society.
So I gave it a 8.
I gave it 8 too. Anyone who played the game should know one episode is not enough. They're skipping those precious time that Tomoya and Tomoyo spend together (it's have a lot of dramatic and funniness things to show). I rememer near the last moment, Sunohara is going somewhere for a long time, left Tomoya alone in the town. But the anime showed his face with Tomoya at the school near the end... I can't believe in my eyes, what depressing.
But I must say the studio did an excellent job at those last scenes - the snowing street where Tomoya meet Tomoyo. Animation and graphic are really good.
Tomoyo chapter would better if they made in 3 ep as an OVA like you said.
Leo_Otaku
2008-07-20, 23:31
Anyhow,i give this episode 9/10 because it went too fast but i enjoyed watching it. (+ The guy with glasses is HOT)
LOL that is so great XD:heh:He is pretty hot
As for Kyou OVa who knows maybe they will make one. I don't see how they could put Kyou's story in the AS...
Sotobrastos
2008-07-21, 03:21
Nagisa blows. I don't hate her, but goddamn is she boring.
I'd love a Kyou chapter.
I liked it. I haven't gotten the chance to play the game so it's nice to see this route animated. I was always curious as to how Tomoyo and Tomoya would get ultimately get together but the time constraint didnt allow for that backstory.
The animation on this episode was hit and miss somehow it felt more static compared to other Clannad eps but maybe that's just me. I look forward to the AS and any more bonus eps.
Well, this time I made an exception and watched the RAWs. And even though I didn't understand about 95% of the dialogs, the picture and mood says a lot. Hope SS-Eclipse will sub this one... Anyway, from what I caugh from the picture and the little japanese I know, this episode is really good, perhaps the best Clannad episode so far. The ending is simply brilliant.
Kyou's arc: WHERE?!
Way better than the Tomoyo arc IMO, Kyoani really has to animate it!
Ok I never played the game. But still this ep deserves a 9.5, rounded to a 10. Only misgivings was the rushed start but since it was only 1 ep, they had to give it a headstart.
Otherwise, the mood, the pace, the story was all great. Moving and full of impact.
velocity7
2008-07-21, 17:42
Kyou's arc: WHERE?!
Way better than the Tomoyo arc IMO, Kyoani really has to animate it!
I am a Kyou fan, and I would have to say that this is not true.
Shinigami_Mello
2008-07-21, 18:57
Hm, Tomoya's kind of really out of character in Kyou's arc. It was kind of odd to see him do what he did, even though I kind of understood his thinking. And the story was quite generic when it comes to twins, but, I think it'd be interesting to see that.
God this episode was better then entire bloody series that came before.
And yes, I'm being fully serious.
I'd have to agree with you on this.
Sorrow-K
2008-07-22, 07:37
I thought the drama in this episode was very good, but I was never completely convinced by the romance. As others have mentioned earlier, they did rather force it on us by throwing us into what was clearly the middle-to-end of the story. Obviously they had a severely limiting time constraint on them, and something had to be sacrificed, but this is what I'd call a text book case of "not properly developed".
But the drama itself was good. The relationship between Okazaki and Tomoyo was given a significant hurtle, and as has been the case with all of Clannad so far, the drama allowed the story to thoroughly explore some very interesting and down-to-earth themes. I had a bit of trouble with the ending itself, and the choices the characters invariably made (such as Tomoyo giving up a promising life just to be with Okazaki), but I'd imagine things would have been much more credible if the relationship was better developed.
Who complained about Okazaki being slightly OOC? haiz123321? I thought that was on the mark. He just seemingly lost a bit of his "edge" in this episode, and was a bit blunted compared to what we're used to. Arguably Tomoyo tamed him, but he kinda felt to me that he was diluting his naturally sardonic personality for Tomoyo's sake. Maybe something happened between them leading up to that, but, again, there's this big hole in their relationship development that we unfortunately weren't privy to in this episode.
Good episode, but the short time scale muted its potential, IMO.
destiny4everlove
2008-07-22, 13:05
Episode 24
-Sunohara was hilarious as always. :D He was my favorite part of this episode.
- Even though, I'm a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge fan of the Nagisa x Tomoya pairing (and I mean HUGE, since Nagisa x Tomoya is my OTP in the whole anime world), I was still able to enjoy this episode. They were really touching and amazing moments, like the break up scene and the sort of make up scene at the end of the ep. It was a very good episode, but in a weird way... it made me love my favorite pairing even more, because this episode showed me just how much Nagisa and Tomoya are perfect for each other.
-O.K. I admit that I'm biased, completely biased in fact, but when Tomoya and Tomoyo were about to kiss I was internally screaming: "nooooooooo!!!", because I really want for Tomoya's first kiss to be with Nagisa.
-It was a good ep, but I sure missed Nagisa and the other girls. Anyway, after watching this episode I so can't wait to watch the second season of Clannad!!
Watching this episode has kind of spoiled my anticipation for the second season of Clannad. Tomoyo and Kyou were my favourites from the first series, (although Kyou got a little weird/possessive at the tail end of it all) but I accepted the Nagisa x Tomoya pairing because it was pretty much clandestine from the get-go. Nagisa is a little......door-matty and helpless, which is completely not my thing. She's really the only Key/Kyoani lead I don't care for. At least Ayu and Misuzu had some spunk.
Having seen how good the Tomoyo x Tomoya storyline could have been, my enthusiasm to see S2 seems to have waned.
Anyway, my thoughts on the episode have already been articulated in a better fashion than I could manage (the rushed pacing impacting the flow, the sub-par animation for Kyoanis' standards). I will however mention that Tomoyo's VA Kuwashima Houko is a standout with the more emotional scenes. So props to her.
And I agree with whoever it was that said this episode was better than the 23 before it. So true.
Did anyone else get "5 cm per second" vibes from it at all? Or was it just me in my craziness?
Taricitous
2008-07-22, 21:52
mmmm my thoughts on the extra ep.
since i hav played sum of 'Tomoyo: its a wonderful life' this extra ep is just an explanation of how they (Tomoyo X Tomoya) got together, bit predicable (Tomoya's actions and the result of Tomoyo becoming student president), felt a bit odd without Tomoya's little brother in Tomoya's arc since he was awsum in the game :)
No mentioning of the other characters was a bit of a let down (would love to know wat they hav become since i have not played the Clannad game, ie when/if Nagisa graduate or are we spose to assume from Clannad the movie that shes sick again???)
Biggest let down was no more Tomoya beating on Sunohara (where were the combos!?!)
This ep really just sets up the scenario from: Tomoyo-its a wonderful life arc, unless thats the direction Key is gona take with After Story, its not relevant to the original Clannad TV (Nagisa) arc/story :)
zzeroparticle
2008-07-22, 23:25
I had a bit of trouble with the ending itself, and the choices the characters invariably made (such as Tomoyo giving up a promising life just to be with Okazaki), but I'd imagine things would have been much more credible if the relationship was better developed.
If I had to make any rewrites on how things would developed from this extra episode's end, I'd have liked to see Tomoya be the one to follow Tomoyo and go wherever she goes rather than the other way around. Now, whether one can argue if this is at odds with his personality is another matter, but it's the outcome that would have made the most sense to me. Maybe this episode's end was a reflection of traditional Japanese gender roles.
Woodchips
2008-07-22, 23:32
Oh, this is what I was missing throughout the CLANNAD series! This episode, regardless of its slight problems, was was what I wish the series had been like. While I found myself enjoying it, CLANNAD had something that stopped it being as memorable or as moving as its KyoAni predecessors Kanon or Air. Watching the Tomoyo chapter helped reinforce why it wasn't as compelling-- it suffers from a lack of strong female leads.
Ayu was ballsy--as were all the other Kanon girls in one way, shape or form. As was Misuzu, in her more tragic, endearing way. In CLANNAD we have Nagisa-- who is too much of a timid, walk-over to let her moments of personal growth shine-- Ryou, Fuko and Kotomi who are all rather similar in terms of personality strength. Then on the other side of the spectrum we have Kyou and Tomoyo who both seem to have enough strength of personality to steam-roll anything that crosses their path. This made Kyou and Tomoyo my favourite characters in the series, so it was disheartening to see their stories whittled down to nothing.
The Tomoyo chapter was realistic and touching which helps to heighten the emotional impact of the story. While it was rather disappointing to skip the start of Tomoyo/Tomoya's relationship, KyoAni dealt with it in a way that made it believable and sweet without being saccharine. The progression of the relationship was dealt with effectively given the significant time constraints, and the chemistry between the two leads was palpable, as they seem to be much more evenly matched than Nagisa/Tomoya. As per KyoAni's standards, the emotional scenes were well done, if not a little lacking in their usual animation standards for this group. Seiyuu performances were excellent, special props to Kuwashima Houko who does a great job with making Tomoyo vulnerable and emotional without making her seem OoC, given her stoic personality in the series.
My gripes: Time constraints crippled it to an excellent--but not quite perfect--story. Had there been more time devoted to it, I'm sure I would have been able to rate it as a perfect ten.
And oh-my-word-the-Engrish! Tomoyo's speech sounded like the script-writers plucked random words out of the Japanese-English dictionary and threw them together haphazardly, same applies to the Engrish song at the climatic scene. Maybe it would have been okay for non-English speakers, but I found myself having to physically block out the lyrics to watch the scene. It's amazing how such bad English can be so utterly distracting. I honestly don't see why they didn't just fork out to have an English-speaking person, or better yet a translator, quickly check it over. In all honesty, I think a musical score works better in these moments without vocals to detract from the scene.
To summarise: This was a teasing taste of what could have been. Simplistic, realistic and powerful, and with a couple that I find more believable than the canon pairing, this added bonus made me rather disappointed that it is only a one-off. Here's to hoping there's enough material for a spin-off series!
Did anyone else get "5 cm per second" vibes from it at all? Or was it just me in my craziness?
:stupid:
I did, actually. Especially with the rail crossing imagery. It also had the same understated epic feel, and the same bittersweet tone throughout the episode. Anything that can evoke the same feelings as that fantastic movie gets two thumbs way, way up from me. ;)
Ice Block
2008-07-23, 00:23
@Fweakin: It's a bit unfair to compare Nagisa to the previous Key leads at this point though, since her full arc hasn't been animated yet. The first season only went into 3/4 of her arc in the School Life portion of Clannad. Also remember that a significant portion of After Story will be dealing with Tomoya x Nagisa.
@Woodchips: Same as above. Tomoyo's route is one of the more down-to-earth routes in Clannad (School Life portion), with the others being Kyou's, Youhei's/Mei's, and a character who hasn't been introduced in the anime yet. All these are more believable and easier to relate to than most previous Key stories. And about the Engrish: they were all taken directly from the game, even Tomoyo's speech. As I've said, KyoAni's faithfulness to the source is damn scary. :heh:
@Taricitous: This episode's actually the direct adaptation of the latter half of Tomoyo's arc from the Clannad game (Tomoyo After follows up from there), though they skipped most of the jokes and other fun stuff. And actually, this is somewhat significant to the main story (Nagisa's route), as with all other paths in the game. Depending on how KyoAni handles the plot, this episode may or may not be referenced in future After Story episodes. Subbing in Tomoyo After for AS though is out of the question, since all the flags for Nagisa's route and AS have already been set.
velocity7
2008-07-23, 00:51
Oh, this is what I was missing throughout the CLANNAD series! This episode, regardless of its slight problems, was was what I wish the series had been like. While I found myself enjoying it, CLANNAD had something that stopped it being as memorable or as moving as its KyoAni predecessors Kanon or Air. Watching the Tomoyo chapter helped reinforce why it wasn't as compelling-- it suffers from a lack of strong female leads.
Perhaps you are looking for an actual dating sim adaptation?
This happens to be a different beast.
Woodchips
2008-07-23, 01:34
@Woodchips: Same as above. Tomoyo's route is one of the more down-to-earth routes in Clannad (School Life portion), with the others being Kyou's, Youhei's/Mei's, and a character who hasn't been introduced in the anime yet. All these are more believable and easier to relate to than most previous Key stories. And about the Engrish: they were all taken directly from the game, even Tomoyo's speech. As I've said, KyoAni's faithfulness to the source is damn scary. :heh:
I can appreciate what you're trying to get at, but I am only expressing my opinion based on what they have presented to us thus far. I have not referred to the source material, nor do I intend to until the anime is completed. How is it unfair to compare a character to another lead just because her full route hasn't been animated yet? We've had twenty-four episodes of almost constant exposure to Nagisa through the series--which is more development than any other female KyoAni/Key lead--and she still doesn't engage me. At this stage, unless she undergoes a personality transplant, I doubt I will find her as endearing as the characters I mentioned in my last post. That's not to say that I'm completely closed off to the possibility-- I would like to be proven wrong, but thus far, she just doesn't measure up.
Re: Engrish. Again, I don't really care about the source material. I am looking at the anime only, and this episode in respect to the others I have seen. I can appreciate that they wanted to stay true to the source material, but surely they could have done some minor tweaking to ensure it wasn't quite so weird. The only difference would be that she's make sense when she was making her speech. :heh: And are you saying that the weird Engrish song was in the source material too? Regardless, my opinion still stands-- the Engrish was weird and distracting.
Perhaps you are looking for an actual dating sim adaptation?
This happens to be a different beast.
Could you explain what you mean? I'm not quite following what you're trying to say.
Sorrow-K
2008-07-23, 01:58
Ayu was ballsy--as were all the other Kanon girls in one way, shape or form. As was Misuzu, in her more tragic, endearing way. In CLANNAD we have Nagisa-- who is too much of a timid, walk-over to let her moments of personal growth shine-- Ryou, Fuko and Kotomi who are all rather similar in terms of personality strength. Then on the other side of the spectrum we have Kyou and Tomoyo who both seem to have enough strength of personality to steam-roll anything that crosses their path. This made Kyou and Tomoyo my favourite characters in the series, so it was disheartening to see their stories whittled down to nothing.
Oh, I disagree about Fuko. Fuko had a strong determination about her that made her endearing. I resisted with all my might, but I couldn't help but really like Fuko by the end of her arc... although I didn't totally appreciate what they did with her after that.
Although, I don't disagree that Kyou and Tomoyo weren't given enough spotlight during the main series.
Ice Block
2008-07-23, 02:43
How is it unfair to compare a character to another lead just because her full route hasn't been animated yet?
It's just like comparing a college graduate to a grade schooler -- or in WoW, like comparing the DPS of a T6/Sunwell geared 0/21/40 warlock to a T5 geared 40/0/21 mage on Brutallus. As you can see, the difference is huge when you compare a finished product to a work in progress. Not saying though that you can't compare -- just that doing so would be unfair.
We've had twenty-six episodes of almost constant exposure to Nagisa through the series--which is more development than any other female KyoAni/Key lead--and she still doesn't engage me.
Twenty-four. More screentime =/= more development. In all these episodes, her character only received minimal development, except in Ep19-23. Note that this is not even a third (or maybe a quarter) of the entire Clannad timeline, or of Nagisa's route (including AS) for that matter.
And are you saying that the weird Engrish song was in the source material too?
Yes. It's actually a very beautiful song if you ignore the lyrics and just listen to the melody. Like I said before:As for ANA... the melody's good. Just don't mind the lyrics. TIP: don't think of the lyrics as English words. Think of them as some odd alien language. :p
Woodchips
2008-07-23, 05:20
As you can see, the difference is huge when you compare a finished product to a work in progress. Not saying though that you can't compare -- just that doing so would be unfair.
Who says I'm comparing a work-in-progress to a finished product? I didn't have to watch Kanon or Air all the way through to find either a more captivating series, nor did I have to see all the way through to like Ayu or Misuzu as characters. All this really sounds like is a difference in opinion more than anything else. :D
Twenty-four. More screentime =/= more development. In all these episodes, her character only received minimal development, except in Ep19-23. Note that this is not even a third (or maybe a quarter) of the entire Clannad timeline, or of Nagisa's route (including AS) for that matter.
Thanks for the correction, I think I suffered a bit of a brain-fart there. ;)
I think you're also getting stuck at the same point: I don't really care about the source material when I am commenting on the anime. While they are clearly related, I haven't been exposed to it, so I am only commenting on what I have seen so far. I am talking only about the anime-- the source material is irrelevant for discussing what I thought of the anime adaptation.
And I know that being on screen doesn't always equate to increased development, but if that's the case, what were they doing with all those scenes she was on screen without any development happening? :confused: Seems like wasted opportunity to me. If she had all that time, why didn't they really use it?
Yes. It's actually a very beautiful song if you ignore the lyrics and just listen to the melody.
It does have a nice melody, but that's what I was saying: I couldn't block out the weird English during that scene. Other people may have had no problems doing that, but I did. If they had cut the vocals and left the melody I would have been a very happy camper.
Chiu_fan
2008-07-23, 08:41
All I have to say is that this was THE best episode of Clannad. Still I can't believe I watched this for three times in a row, and nothing else but this, in Crunchyroll and suddenly not watching a thing in that site for 2 whole days because of this episode.:heh::heh::heh:
Spectacular_Insanity
2008-07-23, 09:45
Ayu was ballsy--as were all the other Kanon girls in one way, shape or form. As was Misuzu, in her more tragic, endearing way. In CLANNAD we have Nagisa-- who is too much of a timid, walk-over to let her moments of personal growth shine-- Ryou, Fuko and Kotomi who are all rather similar in terms of personality strength. Then on the other side of the spectrum we have Kyou and Tomoyo who both seem to have enough strength of personality to steam-roll anything that crosses their path. This made Kyou and Tomoyo my favourite characters in the series, so it was disheartening to see their stories whittled down to nothing.
This was pretty inevitable. Clannad, being and anime based off a game, literally cannot include every possibility (by that I mean the various "paths") for every character. The basic storyline would inevitably collapse under the weight of conflicting relationships, and the audience would be confused if at some point Tomoya did not have a clear love interest. Although it was not "officially declared" until the end of the series, it was obvious that Tomoya was interested in Nagisa. I've never even played the game, yet it was blindingly obvious to me that the storyline was going to be "Nagisa's route" (I know of the game, so I know that it going to follow the classic formula of all H-games to anime style).
velocity7
2008-07-23, 12:02
Could you explain what you mean? I'm not quite following what you're trying to say.
It has a lot to do with the actual theme of CLANNAD. I don't mean the theme that involves winter for Kanon and summer for AIR, though. If you don't know what I mean still, it's better you wait until After Story to find out, but if I were to give you a hint,
Expect drama at the same level as the endgame for AIR.
Mirrinus
2008-07-23, 19:05
Finally got around to seeing this, and it only whets my appetite even more for After Story. I haven't been able to watch much anime as of late...too busy with work and have the MCAT coming up.
Woodchips
2008-07-23, 22:23
It has a lot to do with the actual theme of CLANNAD. I don't mean the theme that involves winter for Kanon and summer for AIR, though. If you don't know what I mean still, it's better you wait until After Story to find out, but if I were to give you a hint,
Expect drama at the same level as the endgame for AIR.
I hope you're right. As I've said, my opinions have only been based on what I've seen so far, I will be very happy to stand corrected during After Story if what you're saying is true. :D
Reckoner
2008-07-24, 00:21
It has a lot to do with the actual theme of CLANNAD. I don't mean the theme that involves winter for Kanon and summer for AIR, though. If you don't know what I mean still, it's better you wait until After Story to find out, but if I were to give you a hint,
Expect drama at the same level as the endgame for AIR.
The end of Air was so undramatized that I had trouble watching its end. If After Story is exactly like that, I feel even less compelled to watch it. However I am a masochist when it comes to anime, so I shall watch regardless.
risingstar3110
2008-07-24, 10:20
Any kind of comparing is unfitted, but i just want to say that while Clannad TV was so disappointed (that i planed to miss out the OVAs and AS), this OVA did change my mind.
So... 10 for doing things that didn't expect to be possible, even when i know it's absurd to put whole Tomoyo arc into 1 Ep
minnadaisuki
2008-07-24, 12:23
Tomoyo rarely gets a screen time on the actual series. I give this episode a perfect 10 for that. How about an exclusive Kotomi and Kyou episode? :D
A Kotomi-exclusive episode would struggle to fill up 24 min of unique content. It'd just be the Drama Club heading to the shops, plus a kiss.
Maybe they could kiss for 24 minutes, who knows.
A Ryou/Kyou route would be plausible though, and quite enjoyable actually :D
Taricitous
2008-07-24, 12:56
A Kotomi-exclusive episode would struggle to fill up 24 min of unique content. It'd just be the Drama Club heading to the shops, plus a kiss.
lol yea maybe, just dun add the dread violin !
minnadaisuki
2008-07-24, 13:28
lol yea maybe, just dun add the dread violin !
It's a miracle that she is immune to her own dread violin. :D
Well she may of been bad because of the incident with her parents and Tomoya, she may have gotten better after all that cleared over because we never got to hear her play after that x.x
minnadaisuki
2008-07-24, 13:36
Well she may of been bad because of the incident with her parents and Tomoya, she may have gotten better after all that cleared over because we never got to hear her play after that x.x
I guess that's one reason why I want to have her own exclusive episode to cover that out. I was wondering if this will apply to all other characters from the story. :p
I want to see more of Fuko. Hopefully, she can remember about Tomoya and Nagisa. :p
I guess that's one reason why I want to have her own exclusive episode to cover that out. I was wondering if this will apply to all other characters from the story. :p
I want to see more of Fuko. Hopefully, she can remember about Tomoya and Nagisa. :p
It would be nice to have a Kyou and Ryou arc but I doubt it'll happen they should be getting ready for AS now.
And Fuko lol she was such a good character and they turned her into horrible comic relief x.x made me sad. Only way they could really make her remember or even come back really is if she wakes up and its on the news and a memory sparks for either Nagisa or Tomoya but even now when they see her they're still like .......what?
Season 2 Clannad in October?
minnadaisuki
2008-07-24, 16:44
It would be nice to have a Kyou and Ryou arc but I doubt it'll happen they should be getting ready for AS now.
And Fuko lol she was such a good character and they turned her into horrible comic relief x.x made me sad. Only way they could really make her remember or even come back really is if she wakes up and its on the news and a memory sparks for either Nagisa or Tomoya but even now when they see her they're still like .......what?
I really like the part when Fuko attended the wedding of her sister and said her goodbyes to them. For me, it's the most touching part of the story. :)
I feel sorry for Kyou and Ryou. They do have a crush on Tomoya. However, Tomoya picked Nagisa in the end. :(
Season 2 Clannad in October?
There will be a second season for Clannad and it will be aired in October. :p
I really like the part when Fuko attended the wedding of her sister and said her goodbyes to them. For me, it's the most touching part of the story. :)
I feel the saddest parts where when Nagisas mom couldn't see Fuko anymore and of course at Fukos sisters wedding.
But off that topic hehe I think they should make another arc for TomoyaxTomoyo their names work perfectly and they look so cute together lol
Ashlotte
2008-07-24, 19:08
Well it sure maintained the quality set by the TV show, but it did make it pretty clear to me that I certainly like him ending up with Nagisa the best...For some reason it just feels right.
Don't get me wrong though I love all the girls in the show for various reasons, but as a couple those two are just the most enjoyable to see together at the end of the day I guess...
Either way as a non-game playing somehow unspoilered fan I'm really looking forward to season 2. ;)
IRJustman
2008-07-24, 19:27
Season 2 Clannad in October?
That's what all the reports are saying presently. Of course, nothing official like a specific airdate/time/station at this point.
--Ian.
minnadaisuki
2008-07-24, 21:25
I feel the saddest parts where when Nagisas mom couldn't see Fuko anymore and of course at Fukos sisters wedding.
But off that topic hehe I think they should make another arc for TomoyaxTomoyo their names work perfectly and they look so cute together lol
They simply look natural together as compared to other female pairings with Tomoya. In fact, their relationship is practically normal. It can even happen in real life. :)
Kyou is a little bit stingy when it comes to picking up Tomoya everyday. However, I find it more exciting to see if those two will end up together. Kyou will just beat the hell out of Tomoya everyday if he does anything foolish. :p
They simply look natural together as compared to other female pairings with Tomoya. In fact, their relationship is practically normal. It can even happen in real life. :)
Kyou is a little bit stingy when it comes to picking up Tomoya everyday. However, I find it more exciting to see if those two will end up together. Kyou will just beat the hell out of Tomoya everyday if he does anything foolish. :p
Yea probably would, if it where TomoyaxKyou wed probably have like a Shuffle thing going on there xD
shaolinx
2008-07-24, 22:49
Great OVA EP!! I dont know if i could handle 24 eps of emo tomoya though... 13 would be nice.
Anyone know if there is more OVAs to come after this, if so how many?
Shinigami_Mello
2008-07-24, 22:52
Well, no OVA's so far.
Just the After Story : D
shaolinx
2008-07-24, 22:55
Well, no OVA's so far.
Just the After Story : D
Ah, I see... Anidb labeled it as After story.
http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=5841
Got me a bit confused, then had to read on in the other thread. So the Second season is totally different...
CrowKenobi
2008-07-24, 23:27
For those waiting, Static Subs and Eclipse have released their sub! :D
:cool:
I'm abit confused, will there be arcs for the other characters as well?
I'm abit confused, will there be arcs for the other characters as well?
Not confirmed just wishing :(
Taricitous
2008-07-25, 01:48
lol shuffle thing ... wait no not in Clannad!
They simply look natural together as compared to other female pairings with Tomoya. In fact, their relationship is practically normal. It can even happen in real life.
who are u talking about? Tomoyo or Kyou?
Kyou will just beat the hell out of Tomoya everyday if he does anything foolish
Agreed lol well its more like dictionaries in his face
therationalpi
2008-07-25, 05:34
I liked this episode a lot. Having played through the game, I must say that they did a great job of summarizing the story. The thing about Tomoyo's story is that it centers on the difficulties of their relationship at each step. We lose out on the first part of their relationship where there is some definite tension, because Tomoya can't stand the student council, and Tomoyo wants to be in it. However, I think they did the best they could do while compressing what should be 4 episodes into 1.
Hopefully they will make the same adaptation for the sister's arc. That said, they really can't do that in one episode because the way that Tomoya skirts around his feelings and delays for so long in telling the truth is key to the tension of that particular arc. I think I'm being suitably vague here.
This episode really reminded me why I love this series so very much.
Not confirmed just wishing :(
I really hope so. :p
I have a feeling that there might be alot of angry fans if they don't.
minnadaisuki
2008-07-25, 09:58
lol shuffle thing ... wait no not in Clannad!
who are u talking about? Tomoyo or Kyou?
Agreed lol well its more like dictionaries in his face
I am referring to Tomoyo. :p
I really hope so. :p
I have a feeling that there might be alot of angry fans if they don't.
I am counting on them to make an exclusive Kyou, Fuko, and Kotomi episode. :D
I am counting on them to make an exclusive Kyou, Fuko, and Kotomi episode. :D
I don't think there would really be a point to making exclusive Fuko and Kotomi episodes as they were both given adequate screen time to flesh out their stories. Kyou/Ryou and Tomoyo were the ones closer to the "shafted" end of the spectrum, hence a need for their stories to be expanded.
Although I very much doubt a Kyou/Ryou episode will happen.
shaolinx
2008-07-25, 10:36
I don't think there would really be a point to making exclusive Fuko and Kotomi episodes as they were both given adequate screen time to flesh out their stories. Kyou/Ryou and Tomoyo were the ones closer to the "shafted" end of the spectrum, hence a need for their stories to be expanded.
Although I very much doubt a Kyou/Ryou episode will happen.
Fuko was given way to much screen time, although I wouldnt mind seeing a Kyou/Kotomi Ep :)
BigGimp77
2008-07-25, 15:10
Just watched the subs... God that was pretty awesome.
Makes me miss watching Clannad every week :(
I'm really glad they did this lil OVA cause I really liked Tomoyo and it was a shame she got the short end of the stick in the first 22 epsiodes.
Although watching the OVA made me realize it would have been REALLY difficult to put that stuff from Tomoyo's arc into the main Nagisa arc.
Here's hopin they'll add an OVA for the Sisters on the AS dvds.
minnadaisuki
2008-07-25, 15:44
Just watched the subs... God that was pretty awesome.
Makes me miss watching Clannad every week :(
I'm really glad they did this lil OVA cause I really liked Tomoyo and it was a shame she got the short end of the stick in the first 22 epsiodes.
Although watching the OVA made me realize it would have been REALLY difficult to put that stuff from Tomoyo's arc into the main Nagisa arc.
Here's hopin they'll add an OVA for the Sisters on the AS dvds.
Hopefully, we'll get more of Clannad this coming October. :D
Hopefully, we'll get more of Clannad this coming October. :D
Hopefully huh, lol there will be the only problem is waiting for October -.-
minnadaisuki
2008-07-25, 16:06
Hopefully huh, lol there will be the only problem is waiting for October -.-
Time usually flies faster than you think. There are a lot of potential series out there that you might want to watch. Although, July's batch is not that impressive as compared to April.
Mecha_Trueno
2008-07-25, 21:52
that last scene was just beautiful.
rewatched that scene a few times!
shaolinx
2008-07-26, 00:05
This ep got me interested in the Tomoyo After, and i recently found out that there is a 1 vol manga made for it!!!
http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=16800
I checked it out and its very entertaining, and is highly recommended, although the art can use a bit of work. Try it out :)
If you know what this Tomoyo Dearest is about, please fill me in. :confused:
http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=24203
Kinny Riddle
2008-07-26, 08:44
It was a good "alternate universe side-story" from the main Nagisa story. The way they entered into this story with them already as lovers saves them from having to sort out the illogical method of clearly defining a dividing point where this universe deviates from Nagisa's universe, because unlike in the visual novel, life just doesn't deviate like that.
Anyway, for me, the best part of the animation here wasn't the background, but rather the expressions on Tomoya's and Tomoyo's faces, going to great lengths to draw out their pain, their sorrow, and their joy. I thought Kanon 2006's snow looked better than the snow in the climax scene (of course, Shinkai Makoto's snow beats them hands down).
Having just followed Code Geass recently and taken a liking to Fukuyama Jun, it certainly felt funny to see him talk like an asshole in his cameo as the four-eyed SC deputy. :heh:
Bennyswan
2008-07-26, 09:34
Gah I just watched it yesterday, so many great scenes.
Dammit i wanted them to kiss really badly =[
ohwell, great OVA can't wait until October.
Takuto19
2008-07-27, 15:56
10/10
Ah loved this episode, big TomoyoxTomoya fan so was looking forward to this one for ages, last scene was just brilliant.
kimchipride
2008-07-27, 16:08
Why can't they make a Kyou x Tomoya episode.
I loved that arc :[
omg... what a show best clannad episode so far.. is it only 1 episode for tomoyo? or is there more
Deadwings
2008-07-27, 22:33
Wonderful... just wonderful... many have said this already, but i'll repeat, too short hehe
10/10
@Tran225: It's only one ep
shaolinx
2008-07-27, 22:54
Wonderful... just wonderful... many have said this already, but i'll repeat, too short hehe
10/10
@Tran225: It's only one ep
Well, there could be more, we just dont know yet... But lets cuts tomoyo story here, the AS is way too depressing for me.
Taricitous
2008-07-28, 01:34
the AS is way too depressing for me
:(, ur giving me expectations!, but yea they kinda gave away the plot for the after story in the movie :(
Ice Block
2008-07-28, 01:38
No, no, no...the movie's got nothing on After Story. Nothing I tell ya. :heh:
This is the simplest way I can put it without spoiling anything. ;)
this episode made me like tomoyo more than the rest of the girls
Taricitous
2008-07-28, 03:57
No, no, no...
This is the simplest way I can put it without spoiling anything. ;)
lol ok, it doesnt matter i think, i realy liked Clannad so im gona watch the After Story even if its depressing etc etc
and @ Tran225, this episode was for TOMOYO that might be the reason haha, and that none of the other girls are even mentioned (except OP) in the episode :)
Well, there could be more, we just dont know yet... But lets cuts tomoyo story here, the AS is way too depressing for me.I second this. I remember there is a big PREVIEW written at beginning.
shaolinx
2008-07-28, 09:25
I second this. I remember there is a big PREVIEW written at beginning.
That is true... I never thought of it that way. I was thinking the preview was for the Episode itself, but it COULD be different. Maybe Key will do something crazy and make it Tomoyo After Story for season2 after all and trick us with those fake after story trailers... Who knows, its a possibility :D
YoureMyHiro
2008-07-28, 22:50
Like many others I was skeptical of this alternate version from the Clannad tv series but I feel it was well directed. They had quite a bit to cram into a short period of time but I think they organized it well considering how fast time progressed, it was gradual rather than abrupt. A definite must see if you havent already.
therationalpi
2008-07-30, 03:46
Had a chance to watch this episode for a second time. I think it's really interesting to see the difference in Tomoya's character between this story and the main arc. Consider it for a moment. When Tomoya is with Nagisa, he seems to be very strong and willful. He has confidence that he is Nagisa's strength, which in turn gives him strength. Moreover, he takes an active role in making Nagisa's dreams a reality. Tomoya is the one who makes the last shot in the basketball game, and Tomoya is the one pushing Nagisa to do her best.
However, with Tomoyo, Tomoya is much less self-assured. People telling him that he should break up with her greatly influences him. We see no advancement in his relationship with his father. Most importantly, we never see Tomoya stand up for himself and his feelings. That said, the relationship he has with Tomoyo appears much more open and cheerful. Both members seem very comfortable with the relationship, and confident in the others person's feelings. Tomoyo seems so shocked by the breakup, in part, because it is so contradictory to the feelings that she knows Tomoya has for her. Even in the end of the episode, I don't believe that we see the level of growth in Tomoya's character that we do with Nagisa. In short, this is why Nagisa is the best partner for him.
A short way to describe it, in my opinion, is that while NagisaXTomoya has the two acting as supports for eachother, TomoyoXTomoya has Tomoya acting as a source of comfort for Tomoyo. Thus, Tomoya does not grow in the same manner that he does with Nagisa.
Stargaze
2008-07-30, 05:29
A short way to describe it, in my opinion, is that while NagisaXTomoya has the two acting as supports for eachother, TomoyoXTomoya has Tomoya acting as a source of comfort for Tomoyo. Thus, Tomoya does not grow in the same manner that he does with Nagisa.
I'm incline to disagree with you. Whilst I agree with Nagisa, Tomoya and Nagisa both asts as support to each other, is saying with Tomoyo, Tomoya doesn't grow? I personally do not think so. You said that Tomoya is less self-assured, indeed, but that is after the rumours and the breakup. Tomoya still does push Tomoyo to do his best, after all, it was him who helped Tomoyo win her election in the first place. The Tomoya with Nagisa is still the same Tomoya with Tomoyo, with all those rumours flying around, I don't doubt it will have much difference even if Tomoya is with Nagisa. If his relationship with Nagisa actually affects her goal (say, drama club), I'm pretty sure the same thing will happen (that is Tomoya being all depressed and etc).
Tomoyo certainly is one of the main support for Tomoya when he is depressed, but Tomoya has clearly demonstrated growth by the end of the episode: going to school, doing work and being more independent are all initial signs of his gradual growth. Though we may not see it much in this episode, this is what I interpreted.
I'm a fan of both Nagisa and Tomoyo, so hopefully I'm not too bias :p
Bennyswan
2008-07-30, 12:18
Why can't they make a Kyou x Tomoya episode.
I loved that arc :[
I would love to see a Tomoya x Kyou :D
minnadaisuki
2008-07-30, 14:51
I even made a Tomoyo banner for my blog just to show support for this episode.
hmmm how will the AS be depressing?
Anh_Minh
2008-07-30, 15:02
If we're wishing for stuff, I'd like a "Final Starfish User Fuko" miniseries (with a cyborg Tomoya). It looked interesting.
Hmm... well at least the series redeemed Tomoya a little compared to his game self... which still didn't make me like him much during this arc. Personally, I was never too fond of Tomoyo's story, however that is not to say that the adaptation wasn't good. i just have some qualms with the script :p All in all, it was not a bad episode, miles better than what you get for DVD extras these days
i hate this episode! it's blasphemy.. <_<
DanielSong39
2008-08-04, 21:59
+: Enjoyable episode overall; liked the chemistry between Tomoyo and Tomoya.
-: Only one episode of this? I thought it was better than the show itself...
If they do Tomoyo After, I hope they split it into two halves - 1-6 for the Tomoyo Arc in Clannad and 7-12 for Tomoyo After.
Looking forward to their wedding.
If they do Tomoyo After, I hope they split it into two halves - 1-6 for the Tomoyo Arc in Clannad and 7-12 for Tomoyo After.
Looking forward to their wedding.
Tomoyo Arc in Clannad is done already (unfortunately):heh:
All that's left is hope that they'll do Tomoyo after in more than one OVA :heh::heh:
IRJustman
2008-08-05, 03:14
If they do Tomoyo After, I hope they split it into two halves - 1-6 for the Tomoyo Arc in Clannad and 7-12 for Tomoyo After.
As someone has already said, in terms of the anime, Tomoyo's arc has already been covered by what both fansub efforts have called "episode 24". All that remains of a Tomoyo story is Tomoyo After itself.
To conclude, while KyoAni has certainly demonstrated a willingness to explore alternate storylines (which, according to conversations I have had with velocity7, is a prerequisite to tell the Little Busters! story properly), if I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath. Believe me, as a representative of one of those efforts whose staff also happens to be directly involved in the CLANNAD game's translation effort, we would dearly love to see this happen.
--Ian.
I just finished watching this series and I agree w/ one of the statements made earlier on in this thread. It was hands down the most enjoyable episode IMO. However, this did bring up a question. Was it ever explained as to why all this extra attention was given to Tomoyo? Is she a fan favorite or something? Because I guess I was just thinking how nice it'd be for several more episodes such as this to be made depicting "what if" scenarios between Tomoya and some of the other females in the show. Having said that, I feel rather lucky that Tomoyo ended up being one of my favorite characters. Otherwise I probably might not have liked the 24th episode nearly as much.
(And in case it's not already obvious, I have not read the manga, seen the movie, or played the games. So I apologize if any of my commentary came off as somewhat ignorant.)
SeedFreedom
2008-08-05, 22:59
Well, there is only speculation, but one of the most logical explanations is that Tomoyo is a very popular character. Perhaps only second to Nagisa. She has her own game (which is not in this) so her popularity has to be up there. Along with that, her story line along with Kyou's requires a lot of commitment romantically so it would not be possible to put this or kyou's along with nagisa which is why their arcs were so short. So i guess between this and kyou's she was more popular.
I don't think it have anything witch character being popular...
IMO if there were no Tomoyo After, then we wouldn't get Extra Episode. (Yes, I know that Extra Episode = Tomoyo route from Clannad,)
After releasing their highly-anticipated title, Clannad, Key gave its designers the freedom to work on projects as they wished. Tomoyo After was the result of Jun Maeda's decision to make a game based on the Tomoyo scenario from Clannad.
I dunno if what wikipedia says is truth or not, it's just fitting my theory perfectly :heh:
I mean... Maybe KyoAni is planning to kill two birds with one stone? After finishing Clannad TV and releasing Extra Episode, they are ready to start Clannad After Story and right after AS, Tomoyo After as OVA(s). Two Key games getting anime adaptation at once:heh:
Thanks for the replies. So is it safe to assume this episode could very well be the result of a combination of things?
-Tomoyo's popularity among the fans (I have to admit, I had no idea she ranked so high as a fan favorite).
-and Jun Maeda's decision to give more attention to Tomoyo by making Tomoyo After. (Perhaps this decision was decided and based around Tomoyo's popularity, his own personal preferences, or both?)
-and Jun Maeda's decision to give more attention to Tomoyo by making Tomoyo After. (Perhaps this decision was decided and based around Tomoyo's popularity, his own personal preferences, or both?)
It was just compensation for no H-Scenes in Clannad lulz :D
Om Nerabdator
2008-08-06, 22:32
ive been looking for the breakup joke quote everywhere but i cant find it can someone plz post it here
Well, there could be more, we just dont know yet... But lets cuts tomoyo story here, the AS is way too depressing for me.
Tomoyo After is depressing? Or are you guys talking about the main route which I can understand.
Stargaze
2008-08-08, 02:21
Tomoyo After is depressing? Or are you guys talking about the main route which I can understand.
I think he is talking about the After Story, Nagisa's (do correct me if I'm wrong :p)
btw Tomoyo After IS depressing though.
Om Nerabdator
2008-08-08, 19:10
in what way?
this episode is a blasphemy!
there's no dango daikazoku at the end!
Taricitous
2008-08-09, 14:02
i dont think u need to tell us this episode is a blasphemy! again ....
Jin Kizuite
2008-08-12, 19:49
Today this moment i am reminded of the joy of watching animes. Being brought to tears from Tomoya's depression and then the reunion ending. Such powerful emotions. I think i'm gonna go cry and suicide somewhere while i curse and wish i had such a girlfriend equivalent in real life.
IRJustman
2008-08-14, 18:58
I mean... Maybe KyoAni is planning to kill two birds with one stone? After finishing Clannad TV and releasing Extra Episode, they are ready to start Clannad After Story and right after AS, Tomoyo After as OVA(s). Two Key games getting anime adaptation at once:heh:
Until there is official word from KyoAni itself or any reputable news outlet, anything about KyoAni animating Tomoyo After must be treated as pure speculation. I'm going to assume that this is an "unknown" until word comes otherwise.
However, given KyoAni's reputation thus far, I'm gonna stick to the position of "never say 'never'". ;)
--Ian.
typhonsentra
2008-08-15, 08:11
It seems to me they're at least considering it if they released something like this.
Ian, you are right, this is speculation, but...imo it makes sense. I don't believe they did Tomoyo chapter just because there was not enough love for her in CLANNAD TV, or because fans wanted them to do. I'm sure KyoAni had some ulterior motive to release Tomoyo Extra ep :)
Time will tell what was their ulterior motive.
PS
If they did Tomoyo chapter just because there was not enough love for her then I demand Kyou chapter & Kappei chappter too:heh:
10/10 I enjoyed fully even though one episode isn't enough I am happy from whats there.
Tomoya and Tomoyo make a good pair and his struggles of school and such reminds me of when I was younger trying to work and be more closer to the girl I had a crush on.
And yeah TA is alot sadder.
kamuinoyume
2008-08-23, 17:10
To be honest, I liked Tomoyo's ending better than Nagisa's 9/10.
Bit late, but it was a good watch before going into the sequel this season. Tomoyo was my favourite one ouf of Tomoya's harem and I had absolutely no problem with a chapter entirely dedicated to his relationship with her.
This was surprising for me but I think I liked Tomoyo better in previous episodes than in this chapter. It's not because she has become a different character (well, to a certain extent she has). It's because her relationship between Tomoya has changed. In this world, they've progressed far as to becoming so open to each other and expressing their feelings towards another so freely. I preferred that more distant interaction between Tomoyo and Tomoya, where Tomoyo had feelings for Tomoya beyond friendship but never crossing that line (similar to Kyou). Tomoyo I like and admire from the series is a determinate person, who with the embrace and help of the "family" (powerful theme of CLANNAD), strives with great efforts to achieve her goal. She is strong-minded and selfless enough to understand Tomoya's feelings for Nagisa despite her feelings for him, she doesn't struts and frets trying to win him over, but is content with letting him be with a girl that can probably make him happier than she can. I have no problem with the choices she made in this chapter (except maybe her side that seems to place her boyfriend before her goals, something that I think is on contrary to the previous episodes), I simply liked how Tomoyo was presented as a character better in the series.
I want a Kyou Episode. She deserves one as much as Tomoyo. :(
Harimo Haria
2008-09-01, 19:27
Kyou is my favorite out of the Harem, that episode that had them both trapped in the storage room had my lmao.
Kaisos Erranon
2008-09-01, 23:41
I want a Kyou Episode. She deserves one as much as Tomoyo. :(
To do Kyou (and Ryou, especially Ryou) justice, it needs to be a movie-length OVA, not just a single episode.
Very late.
I has some preconceived notions about how this episode will be considering as I never played or spoiled myself from the game .I was surprised ,it was beautiful.
Tomoyo was my favourite among the girls.Now I like her even more.
Just found out this existed and watched it ASAP. Throughout the main series, I didn't really think much of Tomoyo. I much preferred Nagisa or even Kyou, so seeing the Tomoya/Tomoyo coupling was a bit weird at first. But as the episode progressed, I realized the reason I wasn't very fond of Tomoyo in the series was that the series didn't do her justice. This episode portrayed the aspects of Tomoyo that make her such an amazing character. It is a showpiece for what girls, no, anyone should strive to become.
This episode is better than any of the original 23, and one of the reasons is that it's able to standalone by itself, with a definitive and fitting conclusion. It also manages to pack in a great love story in under 25 minutes. The lengths Tomoyo and Tomoya go to for each other is truly heartwarming. The image of Tomoyo with the snowflakes slowly descending around her is the most memorable and beautiful of all Clannad.
It's not perfect. It's a bit short of humour by Clannad standards, and Tomoya's behaviour is a slightly different from what one would expect from the main series. And as always with KeyAni, they went a bit overboard on the tears. I've never given a 10 before, but I didn't feel that these faults warranted a deduction of one point. 9.5/10 rounded up to a 10.
Shadow Kira01
2008-10-08, 16:07
Pairing up Tomoya with Tomoyo is better than the Okazaki-Dango Daikazoku pair. (^.^)
Wow....I didn't know this even existed till like 2 months after...Lol...I must admit, even though the animation was a bit off, this was one of the better episodes than the original 23. So much sentimental glory...
tbh i always prefered guys to stick with one girl
when nagisa got sick and tomoyo approached tomoya i though hay don't jump on another one when the other is missing
nagisa is cute but tomoyo is actually the type of anime girl i love the most
very strong and a little shy
not so tsundere to the point it hurts your brain
so i enjoyed this episode a lot but in the whole tomoya x nagisa story it doesn't fit that well
i wish ToTo (lol) was the original pairing of the anime :D
Finally got to see the ep - it's pretty good!
Although,
I would have suggested they intentionally choose to take things more slowly for the duration of the project to save the trees, or something - with the intention that they wold pick things up again afterwards.
Although, I guess that's less dramatic than him taking one for the team...
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